From dynamicsubspace at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 14:58:39 2012
From: dynamicsubspace at gmail.com (Jason Ellis)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:58:39 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Anyone going to MLA in Seattle?
Message-ID: <CACGQHx-V+xcVO+44AtFdmYySM0eR_AGZhrdctDRZBB06KJnqsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Happy New Year, SFRAers!

Are any SFRA members going to Seattle for the MLA convention this
week? I will be there from Jan 4-8. If you are attending and would
like to meet-up, send me an email off list or text me at 404-401-0342.

Good luck to us all in 2012,

Jason

-- 
Jason W. Ellis

PhD Candidate, Kent State University

Vice President, Science Fiction Research Association

Visit my Science Fiction Studies blog at http://dynamicsubspace.net/

From dynamicsubspace at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 20:07:45 2012
From: dynamicsubspace at gmail.com (Jason Ellis)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 20:07:45 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Fwd:  Anyone going to MLA in Seattle?
In-Reply-To: <CACQaQKmxy+tz3RVPpGuz3_1cHDU2rb+bHEUp_8JjWiwVuen-gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACGQHx-V+xcVO+44AtFdmYySM0eR_AGZhrdctDRZBB06KJnqsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACQaQKmxy+tz3RVPpGuz3_1cHDU2rb+bHEUp_8JjWiwVuen-gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACGQHx9z-QYW+L0Wk8i=XvSxiGfzKeFucCjY3F9a4VCf=a3x5A@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Everett Hamner <e-hamner at wiu.edu>
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Anyone going to MLA in Seattle?
To: Jason Ellis <dynamicsubspace at gmail.com>
Cc: SFRA List <sfra-l at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu>


I'll be at MLA, Jason. I'd be happy to get coffee or a beer at some
point; if there are enough sf folks interested, we could quickly set
up a hangout time/location. Maybe even lunch on Friday around noon,
then those interested could go to the "Octavia Butler and Eth Amer
Spec Fict" panel at 1:45? If there's interest, I'd be happy to arrange
a lunch reservation.

Also, I'll make a quick plug for the session I organized on "Genre in
the Genome Age." It would be see others interested in sf and
biocultural issues on Thursday night (7-8:15, WSCC 303, session #156).
More details below, and happy new year, all (and please forgive the
additional announcement on the LITSCI listserv, for those who
subscribe to both)--

Everett Hamner

Genre in the Genome Age



Papers:



Ann Jurecic (Rutgers University), ?Genomic Life Writing?



Everett Hamner (Western Illinois University), ?White Teeth, Middlesex,
and Genomic Fiction?



Responses:



Michael B?rub? (Pennsylvania State University)



Priscilla Wald (Duke University)



Session Description



Scholars in biology, bioethics, the history of science, and sociology
have been publishing monographs concerned with genetics and culture
for several decades. Such texts consider how developments in genomic
science and technology affect questions about race and ancestry,
nation and citizenship, and personal medicine, to note only several
topics among dozens. By comparison, attention from academics in
literary, cultural, and writing studies has been limited. While
notable exceptions include books by Donna Haraway, Jos? Van Dijck,
Maria Aline Salgueiro, Judith Roof, Elizabeth Parthenia Shea, and
Jackie Stacey, we are only beginning to take seriously the cultural
transformations associated with genomics.



This session builds on momentum created by a 2011 MLA panel,
?Narrating Human Genomes.? In Los Angeles, Heidi Kathleen Kim, Jay
Clayton, and Everett Hamner presented papers about representations of
genomics in recent drama and fiction, showing that literature is
increasingly attuned not only to the rapid expansion of genomic
testing and modification possibilities, but also to implications for
defining human personhood. During a response by Priscilla Wald and
ensuing discussion, it also became clear that influences between
genomics and literature are increasingly bidirectional. Beyond
considering how narrative depicts biology, then, our Seattle panel
asks how genomics is transforming literary genres, especially the
autobiography and the novel.



In pursuing this new angle, we will unite two members of the earlier
panel, Hamner and Wald, with two additional participants, Michael
B?rub? and Ann Jurecic. Rather than using a traditional format with
three or four papers, this time we are planning a two-paper,
two-response arrangement: each panelist will speak for 15 minutes and
each respondent for 10 minutes, leaving a generous 25 minutes for
discussion. We have seen this approach spark very lively
conversations, as it lets audience members process closely related
arguments, collect their thoughts during the responses, then engage a
discussion that is already thoroughly underway. Our panelists? diverse
specialties will enable an especially multifaceted exchange: the
junior presenters study nonfiction and fiction, while the senior
respondents are leaders in disability studies and American literary
studies. All four bring broad interests in science and cultural
studies, and will make observations that also pertain to human
cognition and other biocultural fields.



On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jason Ellis <dynamicsubspace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Happy New Year, SFRAers!
>
> Are any SFRA members going to Seattle for the MLA convention this
> week? I will be there from Jan 4-8. If you are attending and would
> like to meet-up, send me an email off list or text me at 404-401-0342.
>
> Good luck to us all in 2012,
>
> Jason
>
> --
> Jason W. Ellis
>
> PhD Candidate, Kent State University
>
> Vice President, Science Fiction Research Association
>
> Visit my Science Fiction Studies blog at http://dynamicsubspace.net/
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l




--
--
Everett Hamner
Assistant Professor of English
Western Illinois University
3561 60th St.
Moline, IL? 61265
(309) 762-3999 ext. 62247
http://www.wiu.edu/cas/english_and_journalism/directory/show.php?e-hamner



-- 
Jason W. Ellis

PhD Candidate, Kent State University

Vice President, Science Fiction Research Association

Visit my Science Fiction Studies blog at http://dynamicsubspace.net/

From bnewton at ashcomp.com  Tue Jan  3 10:02:24 2012
From: bnewton at ashcomp.com (Barry Newton)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:02:24 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Bob Anderson Fight Scenes
Message-ID: <4F031880.7010405@ashcomp.com>

Here's a blog post that's collected four of his best known in one place.


http://cleolinda.dreamwidth.org/919495.html
-- 
Barry

Sent from my MS Windows PC

============================
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From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Wed Jan  4 08:47:41 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 08:47:41 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Chinese sf novel in Top Ten
Message-ID: <62CEF67A-E158-427B-B861-A9D774D3572C@ewwpi.com>

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/2011-12/30/content_14357169.htm

--J.J.P.

From rcalvink at ic.sunysb.edu  Wed Jan  4 12:18:25 2012
From: rcalvink at ic.sunysb.edu (Ritchie Calvin)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:18:25 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] interesting(ish) article on sf (film) and border patrol
Message-ID: <7160e1b0c086.4f044391@ic.sunysb.edu>

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/01/03/396667/science-fiction-border/

Best,

Ritch Calvin
Department of Cultural Analysis and Theory
Humanities 2119
SUNY Stony Brook
Program Advisor, Women's and Gender Studies
President, SFRA
631-632-7607
rcalvink at ic.sunysb.edu

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From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Wed Jan  4 17:41:22 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:41:22 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Horrors!
Message-ID: <W1681631589277411325716882@webmail23>

http://christwire.org/2012/01/12-reasons-to-boycott-game-of-thrones-in-2012-2/

And I'll bet some people here think Martin is a dreadful reactionary....

--J.J.


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From thespike at satx.rr.com  Wed Jan  4 18:02:53 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:02:53 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Horrors!
In-Reply-To: <W1681631589277411325716882@webmail23>
References: <W1681631589277411325716882@webmail23>
Message-ID: <4F04DA9D.3020003@satx.rr.com>

On 1/4/2012 4:41 PM, pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com wrote:

> http://christwire.org/2012/01/12-reasons-to-boycott-game-of-thrones-in-2012-2/

Satan's satire! How they laugh in hell!!!

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Wed Jan  4 19:28:17 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:28:17 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Horrors!
Message-ID: <W23198906435861325723297@webmail44>

Turns out it's a parody (So said friends of David Gerrold, who posted it on Facebook.). But it sound just like the real Religious Right attacks on Harry Pooter and the like. 

--J.J.P.

-----Original Message-----
From: Damien Broderick [mailto:thespike at satx.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2012 06:02 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Horrors!

On 1/4/2012 4:41 PM, pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com wrote:> http://christwire.org/2012/01/12-reasons-to-boycott-game-of-thrones-in-2012-2/Satan's satire! How they laugh in hell!!!_______________________________________________SFRA-L mailing listSFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From dgrace2 at uwo.ca  Thu Jan  5 01:23:34 2012
From: dgrace2 at uwo.ca (Dominick Grace)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 01:23:34 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Horrors!
In-Reply-To: <7170d2b9b4bcb.4f0541d9@uwo.ca>
References: <W1681631589277411325716882@webmail23>
	<7170d2b9b4bcb.4f0541d9@uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <7170909db2043.4f04fb96@uwo.ca>

 Holy yikes! Of course, the first paragraph makes clear this commentator can't tell SF from fantasy, so the absurdities that follow shouldn't be too much of a surprise.
 
Dom 
 
On 01/04/12, pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://christwire.org/2012/01/12-reasons-to-boycott-game-of-thrones-in-2012-2/
> 
> And I'll bet some people here think Martin is a dreadful reactionary....
> 
> --J.J.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

 
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From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Thu Jan  5 08:28:24 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 08:28:24 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Class Consciousness at MLA?
Message-ID: <2DB1F597-C8CB-4052-8BB1-6873395CF94C@ewwpi.com>

Came across this from the 2011 MLA program yesterday while looking up  
what was doing this year:

Session Details

Saturday, 08 January

514. Thought Experiments in Speculative Fiction

12:00 noon?1:15 p.m., Platinum Salon J, J. W. Marriott

Program arranged by the Discussion Group on Science Fiction and  
Utopian and Fantastic Literature

Presiding: Shoshana Milgram Knapp, Virginia Polytechnic Inst. and  
State Univ.

1. ?Plato?s Thought Experiment: Reading The Republic as Utopian  
Literature,? Kara Zavarella, New York Univ.

2. ?Comparing Models of Speculative Fiction: Kepler, Sartre, and  
Cort?zar,? Luis O. Arata, Quinnipiac Univ.

3. ?Automatic Justice: Prison and Mobility in Walter Mosley?s  
?Imminent Future,?? Lisa Woolfork, Univ. of Virginia

4. ??We?re Hard-Wired for Dreams?: Reimagining Genesis and the Human  
in Atwood?s Oryx and Crake,? Eric Aronoff, Michigan State Univ.



Had to look up Cort?zar, who read Verne as a child and wrote in the  
magic realist school. Just what Sartre had to do with speculative  
fiction I can't tell, and what either Sartre or Cort?zar had to do  
with Kepler I can't imagine. The purport of the papers on Plato,  
Mosley and Atwood is clear enough. What's obvious, however, is that  
none of the people who wrote the papers for this session believed  
that there could be any "thought experiments" in genre sf worth  
addressing. I don't think this was Shoshana Knapp's fault, because I  
know her and she's familiar with genre sf. I don't know who was  
involved in the Discussion Group, which I suppose sent out the call  
for papers if Knapp didn't. They may have done their best. Is there a  
mind set among the MLA rank and file that excludes genre sf even from  
even a discussion of "science fiction?" I see that Le Guin and Carol  
Emshwiller made it into one of the sessions this year, and an an  
adaptation of a Strugatsky novel -- don't know if the Strugatskys  
themselves have ever made it. Atwood again, of course. I suppose  
Bradway may have brought in Alice Sheldon, Joanna Russ and Suzy McKee  
Charnas, but I can't tell.

--J.J.P.



64. Cinema, Politics, Theory

Thursday, 5 January, 1:45?3:00 p.m., 618, WSCC

Program arranged by the Division on Film

Presiding: Nora M. Alter, Temple Univ., Philadelphia; Paul D. Young,  
Vanderbilt Univ.

1. "In Defense of Grand Claims in Film Politics and Theory,"  
Christopher Pavsek, Simon Fraser Univ.

2. "'I'm Interested in Cinema': Abbas Kiarostami's Spectator  
Cinephiles," Sara Saljoughi, Univ. of Minnesota, Twin Cities

3. "Evental Genres: Science Fiction, Love, and Andrei Tarkovsky's  
Stalker," Phillip Edward Wegner, Univ. of FloridaI see



493. Women's Utopian and Dystopian Fiction

Saturday, 7 January, 12:00 noon?1:15 p.m., 616, WSCC

Program arranged by the Discussion Group on Science Fiction and  
Utopian and Fantastic Literature

Presiding: Sharon R. Wilson, Univ. of Northern Colorado

1. "The Hand That Cradles the Rock: Feminist Utopias in the Works of  
Carol Emshwiller and Ursula Le Guin," Richard Hardack, Berkeley, CA

2. "Feeling at the End of the World: Affect in Postmodern Feminist  
Dystopias," Tyler Bradway, Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick

3. "Reenvisioning the Purdah: Heterotopia in Rokeya Hossain's  
Sultana's Dream," Nathan Fuhr, Univ. of Northern Colorado

4. "Personal Trauma and Global Apocalypse in Atwood's Oryx and Crake  
and The Year of the Flood," Katherine V. Snyder, Univ. of California,  
Berkeley
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From curtissi at Grinnell.EDU  Thu Jan  5 17:21:33 2012
From: curtissi at Grinnell.EDU (Curtis, Silvio L)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:21:33 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Horrors!
In-Reply-To: <7170909db2043.4f04fb96@uwo.ca>
References: <W1681631589277411325716882@webmail23>
	<7170d2b9b4bcb.4f0541d9@uwo.ca>,<7170909db2043.4f04fb96@uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA1404FE4325@MB1.grinnell.edu>

I was worried it was serious at first, but I started to wonder when I noticed how many pictures of the supposedly corrupting bits they included.



Silvio

________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of Dominick Grace [dgrace2 at uwo.ca]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 12:23 AM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Horrors!

 Holy yikes! Of course, the first paragraph makes clear this commentator can't tell SF from fantasy, so the absurdities that follow shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

Dom

On 01/04/12, pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com wrote:

http://christwire.org/2012/01/12-reasons-to-boycott-game-of-thrones-in-2012-2/

And I'll bet some people here think Martin is a dreadful reactionary....

--J.J.




From ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu  Fri Jan  6 00:06:10 2012
From: ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 21:06:10 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] =?windows-1252?q?Terminology=3A_=22hybrid=22/=22chimera?=
 =?windows-1252?q?=22_=28=22hybridity=22=29_=97_a_Link_to_a_BBC_science_st?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ory?=
Message-ID: <8C76B4A3-A589-42FB-AC74-362A2F0D25EF@MUOhio.edu>

As far as I know, my suggestion went nowhere ? possibly because I misunderstood the use of the term ? but there are cases in which it might be usefully suggestive and more exact for Folk in the Fair Field of genre studies (etc.) to glom onto "chimera" rather than "hybrid" for discussing texts where the mixing of genres may not be deep: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16427873>. 
	Indeed, the oldest sort of skin-graft chimeras may be the most appropriate analogy for a work like THE PHANTOM EMPIRE (1935): a musical cowboy SciFi-flick (sic) movie serial <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0026867/>.
{Background here: in the early 20th c., John Manly, I believe, argued that literary scholars/critics often had trouble coming up with our own terminology so energetically stole (my formulation) from other fields. When Manly was writing, biological terms were fashionable, and he suggestion that if scholars were to discuss the evolution of medieval drama, they might do well to look at some competing suggestions in literal evolutionary biology. Manly thought Hugo de Vries on mutations might be useful: Nature does take leaps with mutations, and, perhaps, so did the development of the liturgical drama and later medieval plays. Missing mss. might account for some gaps in the development of the drama; and/or there could just have been what we might call quantum leaps. Further, the current version of, say, tape worms are less complex than their precursors: evolutionary progress ? my formulations here also ? was tapeworms' going minimalist and getting to the basics of absorption and reproduction. Even so, some later mss. of medieval drama might have simpler versions of plays because the authors had seen fancier productions and wrote simpler versions for their less wealthy venues. (Or they thought simpler might be better ? etc.)
	I was impressed with Manly's (?) essay when I read it and still think his basic ideas sound (whatever the facts turn out to be about medieval drama): The analogy of evolution can be pushed pretty far and remain useful in a number of areas, including the arts. Even so, "hybrid" might be usefully augmented ? if it hasn't been already ? with "chimera."}
	


Happy new year to all,
Rich


________________________________________
Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
	Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
	Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From eotto at fgcu.edu  Fri Jan  6 10:20:04 2012
From: eotto at fgcu.edu (Otto, Dr. Eric)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 15:20:04 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Announcement: ASLE-SFRA Listserv
Message-ID: <26800D9E9413E14A8EE5800C1FC7813D04307B@FGCU-EXMBOX1.primary.ad.fgcu.edu>

Dear SFRA Members,

As the liaisons for the ASLE (Association for the Study of Literature and Environment)-SFRA and ASLE UKI (UK and Ireland)-SFRA affiliations, we would like to announce the launch of the ASLE-SFRA Listserv. As the ecocritical study of science fiction continues to grow, we hope that this listserv will be a place to share ideas, to announce conferences and CFPs, to discuss courses and texts-in general, to engage in collegial conversation about the intersections between science fiction and environmental thought, and why these intersections matter.

We invite you to join. Please follow the instructions below to subscribe to the ASLE-SFRA Listserv:

1). Click on http://list.fgcu.edu/cgi-bin/majordomo?module=browse.
2). Enter your email address in the appropriate box, then click "All" under "Browse Which Lists?" Click "Go."
3). On the next screen, click "AsleSfra" under "List Name."
4). On the next screen, click "Apply."
5). Check your email to confirm subscription.

The list address is: aslesfra at list.fgcu.edu<mailto:aslesfra at list.fgcu.edu>.

Thank you for your time,
Eric Otto (ASLE-SFRA) and Chris Pak (ASLE UKI-SFRA)

Eric Otto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Environmental Humanities
Department of Communication and Philosophy
Florida Gulf Coast University
10501 FGCU Blvd. S.
Fort Myers, FL 33965

phone: (239) 590-7250
email: eotto at fgcu.edu<mailto:eotto at fgcu.edu>

Florida has a very broad public records law. As a result, any written communication created or received by Florida Gulf Coast University employees is subject to disclosure to the public and the media, upon request, unless otherwise exempt. Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your email address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing.

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From rcalvink at ic.sunysb.edu  Sat Jan  7 11:47:40 2012
From: rcalvink at ic.sunysb.edu (Ritchie Calvin)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 11:47:40 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Media Reviews, SFRA Review, March 1, 2012
Message-ID: <723098df9c6a.4f0830dc@ic.sunysb.edu>

Greetings all:

FIRST, if you're not already a member, you can find out how to become one at: <http://www.sfra.org>.

SECOND, you'll notice that I've expanded these listings. We obviously cannot run reviews of all of the items listed below; the listings below are intended to be suggestions. I hope that you'll find something new here, and I hope that you'll let me know about some new things, too.

THIRD, the boilerplate: I?d like to invite you to consider writing and submitting something for the SFRA Review?s Media Review section. While I don?t have spiffy new books to mail out to you, this is the perfect excuse to go out and buy something that you?ve been wanting to get, anyway!

The Media Reviews cover films, television, programs, video games, online interactive virtual spaces, digital media, comic books and graphic novels (and  others).

    FILMS (release date) (director):
   Gemini Rising (30 March 2012) (Dana Schroeder)
   The Hunger Games (23 March 2012) (Gary Ross) 
   John Carter (9 March 2012) (Andrew Stanton) based on Burroughs
   The Secret World of Arrietty (17 February 2012) (Hiromasa Yonebayashi, Gary Rydstrom) based on Mary Norton novel
   Perfect Sense (10 February 2012) (David Mackenzie)
   Chronicle (3 February 2012) (Josh Trank)
   The Darkest Hour (25 December 2011) (Chris Gorak)
   Hugo (2011) (Martin Scorcese)
   Another Earth (2011) (Mike Cahill)
   The Divide (2011) (Xavier Gens)
   Ra.One (2011) (Anubhav Sinha)
   Judas Kiss (2011) (J. T. Tepnapa)
   Melancholia (2011) (Lars von Trier)
   In Time (2011) (Andrew Niccol)
   Wasteland (2011) (Kantz)
   Weather Wars (2011) (Todor Chapkanov)
   Contagion (2011) (Steven Soderbergh)
   Apollo 18 (2011) (Gonzalo L?pez-Gallego)
   Robotropolis (2011) (Christopher Hatton)
   Phase 7 (2011) (Nicol?s Goldbart)
   7 Aum Arivu (2011) (A. R. Murugadoss)
   Real Steel (2011) (Shawn Levy)
   The Bay (2011) (Barry Levinson)
   Age of Dragons (2011) (Ryan Little) Moby Dick adaptation
   Captain America: First Avenger (2011) (Joe Johnstone)
   Dominant Gene (2011) (Dudley Christian)
   Super 8 (2011) (J. J. Abrams)
   Green Lantern (2011) (Martin Campbell)
   Gene-Fusion (2011) (Fran?ois Brisson)
   We Are All Cylons (April 25, 2011) (Ilana Rein) (documentary)
   Mars Needs Moms! (2011) (Simon Wells)
   Paul (2011) (Greg Mottola)
   Atlas Shrugged, Part I (2011) (Paul Johansson)
   Spark Riders (2010) (Douglas Neff)
   Hereafter (October 22, 2010) (Clint Eastwood)
   The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treaders (2010) (Michael Apted)
   Gulliver's Travels (2010) (Rob Letterman)
   Radio Free Albemuth (2010) (John Alan Simon) based on Dick novel
   Transfer (2010) (Damir Kabasinski)
   Steampunk (2010) (Billy T. Boyd)
   Browncoats: Redemption (2010) (Michael C. Dougherty)
   Godkiller (2010) (Matt Pizzolo)
   Earthling (2010) (Cly Liford)
   Offworld (2010) (Emmett Callinan)
   Zenith (2010) (Vladan Nikolic)
   The Rig (2010) (Peter Atencio)
   Super (2010) (James Gunn)
   Downstream (2010) (Philip Kim, Simone Bartesaghi)
   Hunter Prey (2010) (Sandy Collora)
   Age of the Dragons (2010) (Ryan Little) (A re-telling of Moby Dick)
   Batman: City of Scars (2010) (a short; I sent the URL to the SFRA listserv)
   Tales from Earthsea (August 13, 2010) (Goro Miyazaki)
   Tekken (an adaptation of a video game) (2010) (Dwight H. Little)
   The Singularity Is Near (2010) (Anthony Waller)
   Watchmen: The Complete Motion Comic (2010) (avail @ <www.thewb.com> or @ iTunes)
   ZMD: Zombies of Mass Destruction (2009) (Kevin Hamedani)
   The Fourth Kind (2009) (Olatunde Osunsanmi)
   Where the Wilds Things Are (2009) (Spike Jonze) based on Sendak book
   Mr. Nobody (2009) (Jaco van Dormael)
   Ray Bradbury's Chrysalis (2008)(Tony Baez Milan)
   The Sky Crawlers (2008) (Mamoru Oshii)
   Mutant Chronicles (2008) (Simon Hunter)
   Igor (animated) (2008) (Anthony Leondis)
  
FUTURE RELEASES   
   Iron Sky (4 April 2012) (Timo Vuorensola)
   Seeking a Friend for the End of the World (20 April 2012) ILorene Scafaria)
   Lock-Out (20 April 2012) (James Mather, Stephen St. Leger) Luc Besson script
   The Avengers (4 May 2012) (Joss Whedon) 
   Battleship (18 May 2012) (Peter Berg)
   Men in Black III (25 May 2012) (Barry Sonnenfeld)
   R(e)Evolution (1 June 2012) (Andy Attenhofer) 
   Prometheus (8 June 2012) (Ridley Scott) Alien prequel
   Brave (22 June 2012) (Mark Andrews, Brenda Chapman)
   Amazing Spider-Man (3 July 2012) (Marc Webb)
   Dark Knight Rises (20 July 2012) (Christopher Nolan)
   Logic of Being (August 20, 2011) (Brian McCulley)
   Total Recall (3 August 2012) (Len Wiseman)
   Warm Bodies (10 August 2012) (Jonathan Levine) based on Isaac Marion novel
   Dredd (21 September 2012) (Pete Travis)
   Frankenweenie (5 October 2012) (Tim Burton)
   Cloud Atlas (October 2012) (Tom Tykwer, Andy Wachowski, Lana Wachowski) based on Mitchell novel
   Looper (28 September 2012) (Rian Johnson)
   Gravity (21 November 2012) (Alfonso Cuar?n)
   The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (14 December 2012) (Peter Jackson) based on Tolkien novel
   World War Z (21 December 2012) (Marc Forster)
   Life of Pi (21 December 2012) (Ang Lee)
    
    TV PROGRAMS: 
   Zenith (2011 online series)
   Femme Fatality (2011 online series)
   Prophets of Science Fiction (2011 series)
   Profec?as (2011 series)
   Black Mirror (2011 series)
   Todd and the Book of Pure Evil (2010 series)
   Wolverine (2011 series)
   Game of Thrones (2011 series)
   AIDAN 5 (2009- series)(a no-budget, all-volunteer project)
   Grimm (2011 series)
   The Mercury Men (2011 series)
   The Sparticle Mystery (2011 series) (sounds like its based on the YA books by Michael Grant)
   Under the Dome (2011 series)
   Freezing (2011 series)
   Ultimate Spider-Man (2011 series)
   Soldiers of the Apocalypse (2011 series)
   Terra Nova (2011 series)
   Falling Skies (2011 series)
   Battlestar Galactica: Blood and Chrome (2011 series)
   The Seventh Spectrum (2011 series)
   Nine Lives of Chloe King (2011 series)
   Appleseed XIII (2011 series; based on graphic novels)
   The Alien's Wife (2011 series)
   H+ (2011 series)
   C (2011 series) (Japan)
   El barco (2011 series) (Spain)
   Green Lantern (2011 animated series)
   Alphas (2011 series)
   Metal Hurlant Chronicles (2010 series)
   Yesterday Was a Lie (2010 series)
   Cyphers (2010 series)
   No Ordinary Family (ABC)
   Riese: Kingdom Falling (SyFy; steampunk)
   Survivors (BBC remake)
   Ashes to Ashes (BBC; 2 seasons finished; third/final season maybe in the works)
   Outcasts (BBC; premieres Dec 2010)
   Science Fiction Science
   NextWorld (science fact series on Discovery)
   Riverworld (SyFy, based on PJ Farmer books)
   Small Wonder (1985 series about a female robot, now on DVD)
   Day of the Triffids (BBC mini series)
   Dead Set (premieres Oct 2010; a new zombie series)
   Misfits (2009 series)
   Stan Lee's Superhumans
   Sym-Bionic Titans
   Day One (new NBC post-cataclysmic drama; actually never aired a single episode!)
   Future Earth (science "fact" series on Discovery 2012)

    WEB:
   Imperial Odyssey <http://www.imperialodyssey.net/> online series
   Global SF <http://worldsf.wordpress.com/> online global sf resource
   Words without Borders <http://wordswithoutborders.org/> online global sf magazine
   The Pulp Magazines Project <http://www.pulpmags.com> An open-access digital archive for the study of pulp magazines
   The Tomorrow Project <http://newsroom.intel.com/docs/DOC-1490> Intel commissions stories based on current research.
   SF Gateway <http://http://www.sfgateway.com/> The world's largest digital library of SF&F
   Electric Sheep <http://electricsheep.org> A network of self-replicating art...
   The Scientific Indian <http://TheScian.com> Blog dedicated to sf by Indian writers. Hosts fiction and non-fiction.
   LibriVox <http://librivox.org/> Claims the goal is: to record all the books in the public domain. Currently has some 40 volumes of sf.
   Outsider (web-based comic) (Jim Francis) <http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/>
   Terra (online graphic novel) (Holly Laing and Drew Dailey) <http://www.terra-comic.com/>
   The Periodic Table of Science Fiction <http://periodictableofsciencefiction.blogspot.com/>
   1,000,000 Miles Away (online 3D comic) <http://mma.rut.pl/>
   The 100 (online comic) <http://www.drunkduck.com/The_100/>
   2/3 Dead (online comic) <http://23.thecomicseries.com/archive/1822>
   2214 (online comic) <http://www.nitrocosm.com/go/2214_classic/1/>
   AE: The Canadian Science Fiction Review (beginning Fall 2010) <http://256k.org/ae/>
   Archeology of the Future <http://archeologyofthefuture.blogspot.com>
   Terasem <http://www.terasemfaith.org/index.html>
   World Chinese-Language Science Fiction <http://www.chinesescifi.org/>
   Best Science Fiction Stories <http://bestsciencefictionstories.com/>
   Riese (A web-based series)
   Crossed Genres <http://crossedgenres.com>   
   Free SF Reader <http://freesf.blogspot.com/>
   Not Free SF Reader <http://notfreesf.blogspot.com/>
   SF at Project Gutenberg of Australia <http://www.gutenberg.net.au/sfproject.html>
   A Bite of Stars, a Slug of Time, and Thou <http://freakytrigger.co.uk/slugoftime/>
   Free Speculative Fiction Online <http://www.freesfonline.de/>
   X Minus 1 <http://www.archive.org/details/XMinus1B>
   Variety SF <http://variety-sf.blogspot.com/>
   Military Science Fiction <http://www.milscifi.com/>
   Science Fact & Science Fiction Concatenation <http://www.concatenation.org/>
   AntipodeanSF <http://antisf.com/>
   45 Sci-Fi Cities <http://www.infernodevelopment.com/45-incredible-futuristic-scifi-3d-city-illustrations>


    GAMES:
   Crysis 2
   Deus Ex: Human Revolution
   Axa
   Dante's Inferno
   EndWar
   Banjo Kazooie
   Geometry Wars
   
    GRAPHIC NOVELS / COMICS:
   Habibi (Craig Thompson)
   Agon (Scott Burn, Pablo Churin)
   The Unwritten (Mike Carey, Peter Goss)
   Gods in the Machine (Marilyn Peake)
   Daytripper (Gabriel B?)
   Rust: Visitor in the Field (Royden Lepp)
   Rust: Secrets of the Cell (Royden Lepp)
   Genetiks (Richard Marazano)
   Phoenix without Ashes (Harlan Ellison, Alan Robinson)
   Planetary (Warren Ellis)
   Transmetropolitan (Warren Ellis)
   Supergod (Warren Ellis)
   Blackgas (Warren Ellis)
   Ocean (Warren Ellis, et al.)
   Ministry of Space (Warren Ellis)
   Frankenstein's Womb (Warren Ellis)
   Atmospherics (Warren Ellis)
   Intron Depot (Masamune Shirow) (Vols. 1-4)
   Appleseed (Masamune Shirow)
   The Nightly News (Jonathan Hickman)
   Transhuman (Jonathan Hickman)
   Pax Humana (Jonathan Hickman)
   We3 (Grant Morrison)
   The Invisibles (Grant Morrison)
   The Filth (Grant Morrison)
   Absolute Death (Neil Gaiman)
   Harlequin Valentine (Neil Gaiman)
   Promethea (Alan Moore)
   Miracleman (Alan Moore)
   Bone (Jeff Smith) (1300 page complete edition)
   Rasl (Jeff Smith) (Vols. 1-3)
   Weirdling (Mike Dubisch)
   The Adventures of Luther Arkwright (Bryan Talbot)
   Heat of Empire: The Legacy of Luther Arkwright (Bryan Talbot)
   The Compleat Moonshadow (John Marc DeMatheis)
   Crossed (Garth Ennis)
   The Five Fists of Science (M. Fraction, S. Sanders)
   Beronas War Field Guide (J. Labb?, A. Coffee)
   Bodyworld (Dash Shaw)
   Wasteland (A. Johnson, B. Templesmith) (Vols. 1-5)
   Buckaroo Banzai No Matter Where You Go (M. Rauch, W. D. Richter)
   Cold Space (Eric Calderon)
   FVZA (Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency) (David Hine et al.)
   100% (Paul Pope)
   Fray: Future Slayer (Joss Whedon)
   Megatokyo (F. Gallagher, R. Caston)
   Lone Wolf 2100 (Mike Kennedy) (Vols. 1-3)
   Lone Wolf and Cub
   Fused: Canned Heat (Steve Niles)
   Iron Empires (Christopher Moeller) (Vols. 1, 2)
   Ghosts in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (Junichi Fujisaku) (Vols. 1-3)
   Aquablue (Thierry Cailleteau et al.)
   Akira (Katsuhiro Otomo)
   Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep (Philip K. Dick et al.) (Vols. 1-6)
   Two Faces of Tomorrow (James P. Hogan)
   Wyrms (Orson Scott Card)
   Dream Corridor (Harlan Ellison) (Vols. 1, 2)
   Seraphic Feather (Yo Morimoto) (Vols. 1-6)
   Doctor Grordbort's Contrapulatronic Dingus Directory (Greg Broadmore)
   Halo (Lee Hammock et al.)
   Wildstorm Apocalypse
   The Marvels Project (projected 8 volumes; vol. 1 out now)
   Fahrenheit 451
   Dark Tower (there is a series of them based on the S. King novels)
   Terminator omnibus
   World of Warcraft
   The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century 1910
   Umbrella Academy (set to be adapted into a film soon-ish)


And as always, these are suggestions; if you know of something of interest, please drop me a
line! And be sure to look at the Review Guidelines at <http://www.sfra.org>.

Deadline: March 1, 2012

Best, 

Ritch Calvin
Media Reviews Editor, SFRA Review
(please note the new email address for reviews)
sframediareviews at gmail.com

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From benedict.k.jones at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 23:43:48 2012
From: benedict.k.jones at gmail.com (Benedict Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:43:48 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
Message-ID: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, everyone. I've been trying to find certain types of stories and have
been coming up empty. I can't tell whether it's because there isn't
anything to find or because I'm just missing something.

Specifically, I'm looking for pre-Shelley English-language texts that can
be considered SF creation stories--that is, stories about artificially
created human life. Was Shelley the first to do this in English? Are there
precedents by other European authors?

Pre-1818 narratives in any language about human-*like* creations, such as
golems and the possible automaton in "The Sandman," don't quite meet my
needs. Similarly, narratives about creating non-human life don't really fit
the bill, either.

Any help you can offer would be great.

Thanks,
Benedict
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From ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu  Sun Jan  8 01:11:22 2012
From: ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 22:11:22 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE43EFC3-D773-430C-AA8E-615CBC46B0CC@MUOhio.edu>


On 07/01/2012, at 20:43, Benedict Jones wrote:

> Hello, everyone. I've been trying to find certain types of stories and have been coming up empty. I can't tell whether it's because there isn't anything to find or because I'm just missing something.
> 
> Specifically, I'm looking for pre-Shelley English-language texts that can be considered SF creation stories--that is, stories about artificially created human life. Was Shelley the first to do this in English? Are there precedents by other European authors?
> 
> Pre-1818 narratives in any language about human-like creations, such as golems and the possible automaton in "The Sandman," don't quite meet my needs. Similarly, narratives about creating non-human life don't really fit the bill, either.
> * * *

For something close, you might check out homunculus in a folklore motif index. A late 18th-c. English-language literary "fairy tale" (based in folkish lore) of an alchemist creating a humanoid might be on the edge of what you're looking for. This would be tricky, though: the Grimm boys published only a little bit before Frankenstein (and you'd be entering the argument on just how early to date SF, which implies the periodic arguments on how to define "science fiction").
	(Is the Aarne-Thompson Index on line somewhere?)

Good hunting!
Rich E.



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From sonicfiction at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 01:23:49 2012
From: sonicfiction at gmail.com (m. mccutcheon)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 23:23:49 -0700
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Benedict,
It's an interesting question you ask. To complicate it - not to suggest
you're missing anything - but the idea that Victor Frankenstein
artificially creates a human life is debatable. I think it's Anne K. Mellor
who has argued that, since Victor's "workshop of filthy creation" uses
materials not just from charnel house but also from "slaughter house," the
creature can be understood as not quite or more than human (an
understanding bolstered by his more-than-human physical abilities).

As for pre-Romantic precursors: like those of the golem, Prometheus, and
Pandora, the mythical story of Pygmalion is another source text for *
Frankenstein*: the story of the sculptor whose artwork comes to life as a
human figure. There's also the biblical parable of the valley of the dry
bones from Ezekiel 37. The challenge with looking for pre-industrial
precursor texts may be that they don't define or distinguish "science"
anything like how Shelley and her circle come to understand it; that
discourse of science barely makes it into Frankenstein itself, in which
Victor's studies are predominantly described as "natural philosophy."

Sorry I don't have the specific reference for Mellor just now. If I find it
I'll send it along.

I'll be very curious to see what precursors you or others on this list do
find.

cheers

- Mark A. McCutcheon
Assistant Professor of Literary Studies
Athabasca University

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Benedict Jones
<benedict.k.jones at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello, everyone. I've been trying to find certain types of stories and
> have been coming up empty. I can't tell whether it's because there isn't
> anything to find or because I'm just missing something.
>
> Specifically, I'm looking for pre-Shelley English-language texts that can
> be considered SF creation stories--that is, stories about artificially
> created human life. Was Shelley the first to do this in English? Are there
> precedents by other European authors?
>
> Pre-1818 narratives in any language about human-*like* creations, such as
> golems and the possible automaton in "The Sandman," don't quite meet my
> needs. Similarly, narratives about creating non-human life don't really fit
> the bill, either.
>
> Any help you can offer would be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Benedict
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
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From benedict.k.jones at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 02:40:50 2012
From: benedict.k.jones at gmail.com (Benedict Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 23:40:50 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJsYTbj19z7Yp7t87Dsxd_WYheGKw=tVp9ybyg2hW4SHGSzxiw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, I'll take any help I can get, just so I can contextualize all of this.

I'm definitely aware of the difficulties in categorizing Shelley as a
creation story, but I'm not thinking of it that way in the very strictest
sense. However, it does fit into a certain trajectory that I'm tracking for
a survey chapter. I'm only going to write a few pages on Shelley--but it
would be nice if I could be surer about exactly how much new ground she
really breaks. It's clearly a landmark text, but that doesn't necessarily
mean that it's the first of its kind.

I completely forgot about Pygmalion, as well as the term "homonculus." I
also know that there's an apocryphal story of a young Jesus who was
animating little clay figures or something like that--I think I have notes
on it somewhere.

But I guess I'm really looking for more material from the Early Modern
period, anything from the Renaissance up to 1818--especially if it contains
a whiff of the Scientific Revolution, as Shelley does.

Benedict
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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  8 11:21:20 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 08:21:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <CAJsYTbj19z7Yp7t87Dsxd_WYheGKw=tVp9ybyg2hW4SHGSzxiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJsYTbj19z7Yp7t87Dsxd_WYheGKw=tVp9ybyg2hW4SHGSzxiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1326039680.38759.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Marlow and Goethe may be good sources for Faust and homunculus references in the period you are interested in, Renaissance to late 18th c. Historians of science have recently been debating the "dream" of artificial life in scientific discourse, the best alchemy related book is William Newman's Promethean Ambitions, and his introduction may be useful to you.? I am not sure what contexts you are interested in, but f you look at the introduction to the 1818 edition of Frankenstein by   Marilyn Butler you can find the immediate scientific contexts that Shelley is responding to. 


Here are two other sources that may help:
Burton R. Pollin, ?Philosophical and Literary
Sources of Frankenstein.? Comparative Literature 17: 2 (Spring, 1965):
97-108.

 Theodore Ziolkowski, ?Science, Frankenstein,
and Myth? in The
Sewanee Review,89: 1 (Winter 1981): 34-56.

My own two cents: since the notion of creating life in literature and myth is quite transhistorical, and since it sounds like you only need this for a few pages, maybe adjusting your claim a bit about what Mary Shelley did first would save you some trouble?

Despina
 


________________________________
 From: Benedict Jones <benedict.k.jones at gmail.com>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
 

Hey, I'll take any help I can get, just so I can contextualize all of this.

I'm definitely aware of the difficulties in categorizing Shelley as a creation story, but I'm not thinking of it that way in the very strictest sense. However, it does fit into a certain trajectory that I'm tracking for a survey chapter. I'm only going to write a few pages on Shelley--but it would be nice if I could be surer about exactly how much new ground she really breaks. It's clearly a landmark text, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the first of its kind.

I completely forgot about Pygmalion, as well as the term "homonculus." I also know that there's an apocryphal story of a young Jesus who was animating little clay figures or something like that--I think I have notes on it somewhere. 

But I guess I'm really looking for more material from the Early Modern period, anything from the Renaissance up to 1818--especially if it contains a whiff of the Scientific Revolution, as Shelley does.

Benedict

_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  8 12:22:40 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 09:22:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <1326039680.38759.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJsYTbj19z7Yp7t87Dsxd_WYheGKw=tVp9ybyg2hW4SHGSzxiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1326039680.38759.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1326043360.65944.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Rereading my note I feel the last two lines may be a bit bossy, please ignore them... I wrote too many comments on student papers these last few months and the advising style is rubbing off on everything...
Despina



________________________________
 From: Despina Kakoudaki <dk2244 at yahoo.com>
To: Benedict Jones <benedict.k.jones at gmail.com>; "sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu" <sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
 

Marlow and Goethe may be good sources for Faust and homunculus references in the period you are interested in, Renaissance to late 18th c. Historians of science have recently been debating the "dream" of artificial life in scientific discourse, the best alchemy related book is William Newman's Promethean Ambitions, and his introduction may be useful to you.? I am not sure what contexts you are interested in, but f you look at the introduction to the 1818 edition of Frankenstein by   Marilyn Butler you can find the immediate scientific contexts that Shelley is responding to. 


Here are two other sources that may help:
Burton R. Pollin, ?Philosophical and Literary
Sources of Frankenstein.? Comparative Literature 17: 2 (Spring, 1965):
97-108.

 Theodore Ziolkowski, ?Science, Frankenstein,
and Myth? in The
Sewanee Review,89: 1 (Winter 1981): 34-56.

My own two cents: since the notion of creating life in literature and myth is quite transhistorical, and since it sounds like you only need this for a few pages, maybe adjusting your claim a bit about what Mary Shelley did first would save you some trouble?

Despina
 


________________________________
 From: Benedict Jones <benedict.k.jones at gmail.com>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
 

Hey, I'll take any help I can get, just so I can contextualize all of this.

I'm definitely aware of the difficulties in categorizing Shelley as a creation story, but I'm not thinking of it that way in the very strictest sense. However, it does fit into a certain trajectory that I'm tracking for a survey chapter. I'm only going to write a few pages on Shelley--but it would be nice if I could be surer about exactly how much new ground she really breaks. It's clearly a landmark text, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the first of its kind.

I completely forgot about Pygmalion, as well as the term "homonculus." I also know that there's an apocryphal story of a young Jesus who was animating little clay figures or something like that--I think I have notes on it somewhere. 

But I guess I'm really looking for more material from the Early Modern period, anything from the Renaissance up to 1818--especially if it contains a whiff of the Scientific Revolution, as Shelley does.

Benedict

_______________________________________________
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SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l



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http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From benedict.k.jones at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 14:10:10 2012
From: benedict.k.jones at gmail.com (Benedict Jones)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:10:10 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <1326043360.65944.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACCMtaVSO8BBg6fkt4P6KFDQZxx-=rf6DcBPqMzUD8OeqnYAUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJsYTbj19z7Yp7t87Dsxd_WYheGKw=tVp9ybyg2hW4SHGSzxiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1326039680.38759.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<1326043360.65944.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJsYTbh_kooQH8iYPbGcn5vs9hRMZGdcx=A0OZbqdOmKyO9WKg@mail.gmail.com>

Despina, I did something similar and came across very "teacherly" when I
informally reviewed a friend's book. Was telling him what to do "for next
time." Rather embarrassing, but he WAS planning a sequel, and I wanted it
to be a good one.

I don't think your comment was too bossy, actually. I'm not obligated to
say whether Shelley was the first of her kind, so I might very well end up
qualifying what I say about her. But I have a mania for completeness, as
well as curiosity that is hard to curtail. Both together can be a real
curse.

As always, I appreciate the advice.

Benedict


On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Despina Kakoudaki <dk2244 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Rereading my note I feel the last two lines may be a bit bossy, please
> ignore them... I wrote too many comments on student papers these last few
> months and the advising style is rubbing off on everything...
> Despina
>
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From cms at dragon.com  Sun Jan  8 15:40:04 2012
From: cms at dragon.com (Cindy Smith)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 15:40:04 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF "Creation" Stories before Shelley's "Frankenstein"
In-Reply-To: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJsYTbgLQWfV2vN-uckWfsDvfvm1TdNAS9qhGzrWyWLxzxq2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120108154004.15184ivl9cb47t44@galaxy.dragon.com>

   You may want to look at various Jewish folktales about the creation  
of an artificial creature known as a Golem.  One of the things I  
discuss in my book, _Extraterrestrials and Christ:  The Theological  
Implications of Intelligent Life on Other Worlds_, is the discussion  
among some Jewish authors about whether the presence of a Golem may be  
used to constitute a minyan.  A minyan is a group of at least ten men  
who must be present in order to hold Jewish services.  The consensus  
was "No" because the Golem is not Jewish per se.  In other words, in  
order to be Jewish you must be born of a Jewish mother, and the Golem,  
being an artificial creature, does not have a Jewish mother.

Yours,

-- 
Cindy Smith
cms at dragon.com

"All your base are belong to us.  You are on the way to destruction."   
"What you say?"  "You have no chance to survive make your time."   
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.  The Federation will be  
destroyed.  Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!  "Ubi est mors victoria  
tua?  ubi est mors stimulus tuus?  Stimulus autem mortis peccatum est:  
  virtus vero peccati lex.  Deo autem gratias qui dedit nobis  
victoriam per Dominum nostrum Ieusum Christum" (1 Cor 15:55-57).

A Real Live Catholic in Georgia!


Quoting Benedict Jones <benedict.k.jones at gmail.com>:

> Hello, everyone. I've been trying to find certain types of stories and have
> been coming up empty. I can't tell whether it's because there isn't
> anything to find or because I'm just missing something.
>
> Specifically, I'm looking for pre-Shelley English-language texts that can
> be considered SF creation stories--that is, stories about artificially
> created human life. Was Shelley the first to do this in English? Are there
> precedents by other European authors?
>
> Pre-1818 narratives in any language about human-*like* creations, such as
> golems and the possible automaton in "The Sandman," don't quite meet my
> needs. Similarly, narratives about creating non-human life don't really fit
> the bill, either.
>
> Any help you can offer would be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Benedict
>




From jharve10 at mix.wvu.edu  Wed Jan 11 12:24:12 2012
From: jharve10 at mix.wvu.edu (Jonathan Harvey)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:24:12 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] SFRA syllabus archive
In-Reply-To: <1323387009.29147.YahooMailNeo@web121117.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1323387009.29147.YahooMailNeo@web121117.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7680b683f77f9.4f0d7f6c@mix.wvu.edu>

Dear SFRA members:

I invite anyone who's developing an SF course this year, or anyone interested in SF pedagogy, to check out SFRA's Syllabus Archive: 

http://www.sfra.org/syllabus

(Note that you must be logged in to SFRA.org to browse the Archive.)? 

We already have a pretty good collection of various SF syllabi, including those devoted to particular authors (Tolkien, Rowling, Dick, etc), those focused on a particular era (19th century, contemporary, etc), those based on particular theoretical approaches (gender studies, religious studies, etc), and those that explore particular brands of SF (young adult literature, writing SF, etc). But to ensure that our archive is wide-ranging, definitive, and contemporary, we must continue to add to it. 


If you are teaching any type of science fiction or fantasy course, please consider submitting your syllabus to the Archive. Your intellectual property is protected by the site's login requirement, so only SFRA members should be able to view your document. While I will gratefully receive syllabi at any time, I would appreciate it if you could email your contribution to me at jharve10 at mix.wvu.edu by February 1st, 2012. 

Thank you in advance for your time. Happy 2012!

Best,

Jonathan Harvey, Ph. D. 
Harford Community College
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From sands at uwm.edu  Thu Jan 12 09:58:43 2012
From: sands at uwm.edu (Peter Sands)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:58:43 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Odd little essay on Bradbury
Message-ID: <4F0EF523.4000001@uwm.edu>

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/revenge-of-the-nerd/


-- 
Peter Sands
Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies
UW-Milwaukee English Department
http://www.uwm.edu/~sands ||  http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/English
414.229.4416 || 414.229.2643 (fax)
Editor, H-UTOPIA || http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~utopia/



From jeller at iupui.edu  Thu Jan 12 13:24:18 2012
From: jeller at iupui.edu (Jon Eller)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:24:18 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Odd little essay on Bradbury
In-Reply-To: <4F0EF523.4000001@uwm.edu>
References: <4F0EF523.4000001@uwm.edu>
Message-ID: <a06240803cb34d0eb1ddb@[134.68.38.253]>

Thanks, Peter, for the link to Daniel Flynn's article on Bradbury in 
The American Conservative. Flynn offers some thought-provoking 
comments based on Sam Weller's 2010 book of Bradbury interviews. 
Sam's book provides a good late-life baseline for comparison with the 
social and political viewpoints that Bradbury expressed early in his 
career. As I wrote Becoming Ray Bradbury, I found a mixture of 
liberal and conservative views from the beginning. His hatred of 
totalitarian tendencies, for example, extends to the far Left as well 
as the far Right, and always has.

Best,

Jon

Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
Director, Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
Textual Editor, Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
Textual Editor, Writings of Charles S. Peirce
Textual Editor, Works of George Santayana
Indiana University School of Liberal Arts


At 8:58 AM -0600 1/12/12, Peter Sands wrote:
>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/revenge-of-the-nerd/
>
>
>--
>Peter Sands
>Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies
>UW-Milwaukee English Department
>http://www.uwm.edu/~sands ||  http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/English
>414.229.4416 || 414.229.2643 (fax)
>Editor, H-UTOPIA || http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~utopia/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L mailing list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


-- 

From EdwardFMcKeown at aol.com  Thu Jan 12 15:17:05 2012
From: EdwardFMcKeown at aol.com (EdwardFMcKeown at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:17:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] Odd little essay on Bradbury
Message-ID: <11419.2b0f2b4.3c4099c1@aol.com>

my first novel Was Once A Hero is now available on Smashwords for 1/2  
price and Amazon. I hope you will give it a look   

 
_http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/120464_ 
(http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/120464) 


 

kind regards
Edward McKeown
 
 

 
In a message dated 1/12/2012 10:01:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
sands at uwm.edu writes:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/revenge-of-the-nerd/


--  
Peter Sands
Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies
UW-Milwaukee  English Department
http://www.uwm.edu/~sands ||   http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/English
414.229.4416 || 414.229.2643  (fax)
Editor, H-UTOPIA ||  http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~utopia/


_______________________________________________
SFRA-L  mailing  list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From shalabare at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 18:22:25 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:22:25 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
Message-ID: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>

Dear Hivemind,
In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together the 
syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this is 
not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf theory 
and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short stories on 
the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many awesome passages 
from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the 
first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from 
Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter near the end of 
Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short stories on the 
topic.  So far I have:
Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
Kij Johnson, "Spar"
My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not 
with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think of 
anything great there.
Thanks in advance!
Sha

From shalabare at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 22:45:24 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:45:24 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F10FA54.7030506@gmail.com>

Thanks John, I love Swanwick's work but haven't actually read that one 
so I'll check it out.
And: aside from the "short story" formal constraint, no restrictions!  
It is axiomatic for me that the first moment of "contact" may not be the 
moment of "first contact", e.g. I've been surrounded by tulips my entire 
life, but have never actually made first contact with them, never 
acknowledged that there was even contact to be made.  Any story that 
dramatizes the coming into communication (or lack thereof) with "alien" 
beings is, I think, a contender.
remain in light,
Sha

On 1/13/2012 10:26 PM, John Rieder wrote:
> If you're not restricting this to the very first moment of contact, 
> I'd suggest Michael Swanwick's "Ginungagap," which I've had success 
> with in sf classes. It features one of my favorite sf sentences: "The 
> spiders reported that Garble had translated flawlessly."
>
> A related and really brilliant handling of the theme of alien contact 
> is Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life."
>
> Murray Leinster's Golden Age classic "First Contact" is definitely a 
> candidate. I find its confusion of ideology with cold hard logic both 
> obvious and repulsive, however.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare 
> <shalabare at gmail.com <mailto:shalabare at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Hivemind,
>     In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting
>     together the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday
>     Life".  While this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily
>     inspired by my work in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few
>     - and possibly more - short stories on the theme of first contact.
>      While I can think of many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the
>     arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting
>     with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a
>     Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's
>     Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short stories on the topic.
>      So far I have:
>     Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>     Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>     My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien
>     aliens, not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on-
>     or off-list?
>     I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you
>     think of anything great there.
>     Thanks in advance!
>     Sha
>     _______________________________________________
>     SFRA-L mailing list
>     SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>

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From rieder at hawaii.edu  Fri Jan 13 22:26:23 2012
From: rieder at hawaii.edu (John Rieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:26:23 -1000
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>

If you're not restricting this to the very first moment of contact, I'd
suggest Michael Swanwick's "Ginungagap," which I've had success with in sf
classes. It features one of my favorite sf sentences: "The spiders reported
that Garble had translated flawlessly."

A related and really brilliant handling of the theme of alien contact is
Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life."

Murray Leinster's Golden Age classic "First Contact" is definitely a
candidate. I find its confusion of ideology with cold hard logic both
obvious and repulsive, however.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare <shalabare at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Hivemind,
> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together the
> syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this is not
> an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf theory and I'm
> looking to include a few - and possibly more - short stories on the theme
> of first contact.  While I can think of many awesome passages from novels -
> e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting
> with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman,
> even the brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at
> a loss for great short stories on the topic.  So far I have:
> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not
> with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think of
> anything great there.
> Thanks in advance!
> Sha
> ______________________________**_________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sfra-l<http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l>
>
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From Fred.Lerner at Dartmouth.EDU  Sat Jan 14 10:46:49 2012
From: Fred.Lerner at Dartmouth.EDU (Fred Lerner)
Date: 14 Jan 2012 10:46:49 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
Message-ID: <198401265@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

If you're going to teach "First Contact", you might also want to talk about this  
story (data abridged from NESFA's Recursive SF page at http://www.nesfa.org/Recursion/index.htm):

Yefremov, Ivan Antonovich, "The Heart of the Serpent"

This is a first contact story in which the characters make specific reference  
to Murray Leinster's classic story "First Contact" (originally published in Astounding  
Science Fiction 35:3 May 1945). However, the Leinster story is derided because  
no race can achieve space travel, especially interstellar travel, unless it has  
reached the level of a truly communistic classless society.  The story is socio-Gernsbackian  
as characters lecture each other on subjects they all ought to have known.  [Yefremov's  
name is sometimes transliterated as Efremov.]

Lunost 1, 1959 [as "Kor Serpentis", Russian]

The Heart of the Serpent, (edited by unknown), Foreign Language Publishing House,  
Moscow 1961 [English]

More Soviet Science Fiction (edited by unknown), Collier AS295V, 1962 (pp.19-86)  
[translated by R. Prokofieva, this edition calls Leinster's story "The First Contact"  
and says it took place in the Nebula of Cancer (Crab Nebula in the original)]  
Collier O1647, 1967


Fred Lerner, D.L.S.

<fred.lerner at dartmouth.edu>
<www.sover.net/~flerner>

From jeller at iupui.edu  Sat Jan 14 11:07:27 2012
From: jeller at iupui.edu (Jon Eller)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:07:27 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a06240805cb3753d6b1cb@[10.0.1.3]>

Yet again, more spiders for you: Bradbury's "A Matter of taste," 
published in His Cat's Pajamas collection, is readily available in a 
Harper perennial trade paperback. The story was rejected by F&SF in 
1952 (Mick McComas didn't believe that an entire crew would fear 
sentient arachnids), but it directly inspired a very different story 
line for the 1953 film It Came From Outer Space. I finally convinced 
him to publish the original short story in 2004. It's a bit rough and 
obvious in places, but the entire story is told from the alien 
perspective in a rather haunting way.

Best,

Jon

Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
Textual Editor, The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
Textual Editor, The Writings of Charles S. Peirce
Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
Indiana University School of Liberal Arts



At 6:22 PM -0500 1/13/12, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>Dear Hivemind,
>In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together 
>the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While 
>this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work 
>in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - 
>short stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of 
>many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the 
>Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders 
>in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the 
>brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a 
>loss for great short stories on the topic.  So far I have:
>Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, 
>not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or 
>off-list?
>I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think 
>of anything great there.
>Thanks in advance!
>Sha
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L mailing list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


-- 

From rieder at hawaii.edu  Sat Jan 14 13:51:56 2012
From: rieder at hawaii.edu (John Rieder)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:51:56 -1000
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?windows-1252?q?first_contact_short_stories_=97_maybe_n?=
	=?windows-1252?q?ot_the_best=2C_but_also_maybe_good_enough?=
In-Reply-To: <AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFEnr3e-KToG9dAec4t8RX+qEL7PE=jQ1FBhPXh7+hP0tfH-vA@mail.gmail.com>

Re: the So Long Been Dreaming anthology, the story "Trade Winds" by devorah
majors is really good.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Richard Erlich <ErlichRD at muohio.edu> wrote:

>
> On 13/01/2012, at 19:26, John Rieder wrote:
>
> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not
> with more mundane humanoid ones.
>
>
> *From the Erlich/Dunn Clockworks List:`*
>
> *3.025     *Anderson, Kevin, and Doug Beason.  "Reflections in a Magnetic
> Mirror."  Anthologized in *Full* *Spectrum* (q.v under Anthologies):
> [206]-18.  ****
>
> ** **                     Within the "yin-yang mirrors" (208) of the
> Magnetic Mirror Fusion Facility, there is some *Thing* (209) that manages
> to communicate with humans.  The protagonist's mother had spent some time
> in a coma, dying of cancer, while "connected to a wall full of electronic
> machines" (211), which makes the contact with the creature inside the MMFF
> especially traumatic for him.
>
>
> *3.608 *Phillips, Peter.  "Lost Memory."  *Galaxy* May 1952.  Frequently
> rpt. including *Gateway* *to* *Tomorrow*.  John Carnell, ed.  London:
> Museum P, 1954.  *The* *Coming* *of* *the* *Robots*.  Sam Moskowitz, ed.  New
> York: Collier, 1963.  *Themes* *in* *Science* *Fiction*.  Leo P. Kelley,
> ed.  New York: McGraw-Hill, 1972.  ****
> ** **
>                      First contact between a seriously wounded astronaut
> in a spaceship and robot aliens, narrated from the robotic point of view;
> the robots do not understand that the sentience they've encountered is the
> small human and not the big ship.  [?]
>
>
> *5.269     *"The Best of Both Worlds," Part I. *Star* *Trek:* *The* *Next*
> *Generation*.  18 March 1990.  Cliff Bole, dir.  Michael Piller, script.  Part
> II, 28 Sept. 1990.  ****
> ** **
> *                     *An extensive handling of the Borg: *STNG*'s cyborg
> enemies.  [?] Part II shows the near-complete cyborgization of Picard and
> a "First Contact" between Data (who uses the phrase) and Picard as a member
> of the Borg Group Consciousness.  See [? also] the episode "Q?Who?"****
>
>
> For maybe useful if mostly off-focus stories ? In their *So Long Been
> Dreaming* anthology, Nalo Hopkinson and Uppinder Mehan have a section
> (IV) on "Encounters with the Alien"; and John Kessel's "Invaders," I'd
> think, would stimulate argument (anthologized Le Guin and Attebery, *Norton
> Book of Science Fiction*).
> For more classic First Contact: Joe Haldeman's Marsbound Trilogy. You
> might also use a couple scenes from *2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY* as film,
> compared and contrasted with the parallel portions of Clarke's novel of *
> 2001*.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
> Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
> IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
> Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
> Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
> Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>
>
>
>
>
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From GHMyst at aol.com  Sat Jan 14 14:05:36 2012
From: GHMyst at aol.com (GHMyst at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 14:05:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
Message-ID: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>

Has anyone mentioned "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight?
 
   Ed Wysocki
   Orlando, FL
 
 
In a message dated 1/14/2012 11:07:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jeller at iupui.edu writes:

Yet  again, more spiders for you: Bradbury's "A Matter of taste," 
published in  His Cat's Pajamas collection, is readily available in a 
Harper perennial  trade paperback. The story was rejected by F&SF in 
1952 (Mick McComas  didn't believe that an entire crew would fear 
sentient arachnids), but it  directly inspired a very different story 
line for the 1953 film It Came  From Outer Space. I finally convinced 
him to publish the original short  story in 2004. It's a bit rough and 
obvious in places, but the entire  story is told from the alien 
perspective in a rather haunting  way.

Best,

Jon

Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of  English
Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
Textual Editor,  The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
Textual Editor, The Writings of  Charles S. Peirce
Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
Senior  Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
Indiana University School of  Liberal Arts



At 6:22 PM -0500 1/13/12, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare  wrote:
>Dear Hivemind,
>In my usual just-in-time fashion, this  weekend I'm putting together 
>the syllabus for my course "The Ecology  of Everyday Life".  While 
>this is not an sf course per se, it is  heavily inspired by my work 
>in sf theory and I'm looking to include a  few - and possibly more - 
>short stories on the theme of first  contact.  While I can think of 
>many awesome passages from novels  - e.g. the arrival of the 
>Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual  meeting with the Spiders 
>in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a  Spacewoman, even the 
>brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg  - I'm kind of at a 
>loss for great short stories on the topic.  So  far I have:
>Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>Kij Johnson,  "Spar"
>My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien  aliens, 
>not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions,  on- or 
>off-list?
>I am also open to clips and blips from other  media in case you think 
>of anything great there.
>Thanks in  advance!
>Sha
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L  mailing  list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


--  
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing  list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From erlichrd at muohio.edu  Sat Jan 14 14:12:25 2012
From: erlichrd at muohio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:12:25 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?first_contact_short_stories_=97_maybe_n?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ot_the_best=2C_but_also_maybe_good_enough?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3e-KToG9dAec4t8RX+qEL7PE=jQ1FBhPXh7+hP0tfH-vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>
	<CAFEnr3e-KToG9dAec4t8RX+qEL7PE=jQ1FBhPXh7+hP0tfH-vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FE027BC-25D2-486C-982C-9061951901C2@muohio.edu>


On 14/01/2012, at 10:51, John Rieder wrote:

> Re: the So Long Been Dreaming anthology, the story "Trade Winds" by devorah majors is really good.


I'm very impressed with SO LONG BEEN DREAMING	and think many of the stories very, very good ? just not the "best" for the focus on non-humanoids. 
	(In the one philosophy course I took, the instructor was eventually mildly horrified to infer that I wasn't The Scientist he'd stereotyped me as but [shudder], "You're a pragmatist!" Given that I added the SO LONG BEEN DREAMING stories, I should've clarified with "maybe not the best for the focus".)

Rich Erlich



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From ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu  Sat Jan 14 01:07:16 2012
From: ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:07:16 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?first_contact_short_stories_=97_maybe_n?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ot_the_best=2C_but_also_maybe_good_enough?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>


On 13/01/2012, at 19:26, John Rieder wrote:

> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not with more mundane humanoid ones.  

From the Erlich/Dunn Clockworks List:`

3.025     Anderson, Kevin, and Doug Beason.  "Reflections in a Magnetic Mirror."  Anthologized in Full Spectrum (q.v under Anthologies): [206]-18. 

                      Within the "yin-yang mirrors" (208) of the Magnetic Mirror Fusion Facility, there is some Thing (209) that manages to communicate with humans.  The protagonist's mother had spent some time in a coma, dying of cancer, while "connected to a wall full of electronic machines" (211), which makes the contact with the creature inside the MMFF especially traumatic for him.



3.608 	Phillips, Peter.  "Lost Memory."  Galaxy May 1952.  Frequently rpt. including Gateway to Tomorrow.  John Carnell, ed.  London: Museum P, 1954.  The Coming of the Robots.  Sam Moskowitz, ed.  New York: Collier, 1963.  Themes in Science Fiction.  Leo P. Kelley, ed.  New York: McGraw-Hill, 1972. 
 
                     First contact between a seriously wounded astronaut in a spaceship and robot aliens, narrated from the robotic point of view; the robots do not understand that the sentience they've encountered is the small human and not the big ship.  [?]


5.269     "The Best of Both Worlds," Part I. Star Trek: The Next Generation.  18 March 1990.  Cliff Bole, dir.  Michael Piller, script.  Part II, 28 Sept. 1990. 
 
                     An extensive handling of the Borg: STNG's cyborg enemies.  [?] Part II shows the near-complete cyborgization of Picard and a "First Contact" between Data (who uses the phrase) and Picard as a member of the Borg Group Consciousness.  See [? also] the episode "Q?Who?"


For maybe useful if mostly off-focus stories ? In their So Long Been Dreaming anthology, Nalo Hopkinson and Uppinder Mehan have a section (IV) on "Encounters with the Alien"; and John Kessel's "Invaders," I'd think, would stimulate argument (anthologized Le Guin and Attebery, Norton Book of Science Fiction). 
	For more classic First Contact: Joe Haldeman's Marsbound Trilogy. You might also use a couple scenes from 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY as film, compared and contrasted with the parallel portions of Clarke's novel of 2001.  


________________________________________
Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
	Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
	Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From ErlichRD at muohio.edu  Sat Jan 14 01:07:16 2012
From: ErlichRD at muohio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:07:16 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?first_contact_short_stories_=97_maybe_n?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ot_the_best=2C_but_also_maybe_good_enough?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>


On 13/01/2012, at 19:26, John Rieder wrote:

> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not with more mundane humanoid ones.  

From the Erlich/Dunn Clockworks List:`

3.025     Anderson, Kevin, and Doug Beason.  "Reflections in a Magnetic Mirror."  Anthologized in Full Spectrum (q.v under Anthologies): [206]-18. 

                      Within the "yin-yang mirrors" (208) of the Magnetic Mirror Fusion Facility, there is some Thing (209) that manages to communicate with humans.  The protagonist's mother had spent some time in a coma, dying of cancer, while "connected to a wall full of electronic machines" (211), which makes the contact with the creature inside the MMFF especially traumatic for him.



3.608 	Phillips, Peter.  "Lost Memory."  Galaxy May 1952.  Frequently rpt. including Gateway to Tomorrow.  John Carnell, ed.  London: Museum P, 1954.  The Coming of the Robots.  Sam Moskowitz, ed.  New York: Collier, 1963.  Themes in Science Fiction.  Leo P. Kelley, ed.  New York: McGraw-Hill, 1972. 
 
                     First contact between a seriously wounded astronaut in a spaceship and robot aliens, narrated from the robotic point of view; the robots do not understand that the sentience they've encountered is the small human and not the big ship.  [?]


5.269     "The Best of Both Worlds," Part I. Star Trek: The Next Generation.  18 March 1990.  Cliff Bole, dir.  Michael Piller, script.  Part II, 28 Sept. 1990. 
 
                     An extensive handling of the Borg: STNG's cyborg enemies.  [?] Part II shows the near-complete cyborgization of Picard and a "First Contact" between Data (who uses the phrase) and Picard as a member of the Borg Group Consciousness.  See [? also] the episode "Q?Who?"


For maybe useful if mostly off-focus stories ? In their So Long Been Dreaming anthology, Nalo Hopkinson and Uppinder Mehan have a section (IV) on "Encounters with the Alien"; and John Kessel's "Invaders," I'd think, would stimulate argument (anthologized Le Guin and Attebery, Norton Book of Science Fiction). 
	For more classic First Contact: Joe Haldeman's Marsbound Trilogy. You might also use a couple scenes from 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY as film, compared and contrasted with the parallel portions of Clarke's novel of 2001.  


________________________________________
Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
	Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
	Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From ehiggins at georgefox.edu  Sat Jan 14 14:42:26 2012
From: ehiggins at georgefox.edu (Ed Higgins)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:42:26 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] first contact (parodies)
In-Reply-To: <3FE027BC-25D2-486C-982C-9061951901C2@muohio.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
	<CAFEnr3c3-gzc5_kVPRsjqOL0dMaF+Bmchb7n+JcvHJBmk10gWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC787DE6-5569-47F2-8B66-9D40A85F62E6@MUOhio.edu>
	<CAFEnr3e-KToG9dAec4t8RX+qEL7PE=jQ1FBhPXh7+hP0tfH-vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3FE027BC-25D2-486C-982C-9061951901C2@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <788A0D7C-C8EA-46CA-9FDA-D5039B248693@georgefox.edu>

You might be interested in a couple of parodies  of mine that poke light fun at the convention. The first piece is flash fiction, the second a poem:

?First Contact,? Farther Stars Than These, E. S. Wynn, Editor, Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011, <http://www.fartherstars.com/2011/12/12811.html>

 ?take me to your leader, bastards ,? Planet Magazine, Andrew McCann, Editor and Publisher, Mar., 2007, <http://planetmag.com/2007/03/10/two-poems-by-ed-higgins/#more-134>  

?Ed Higgins

On Jan 14, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Richard Erlich wrote:

> 
> On 14/01/2012, at 10:51, John Rieder wrote:
> 
>> Re: the So Long Been Dreaming anthology, the story "Trade Winds" by devorah majors is really good.
> 
> 
> I'm very impressed with SO LONG BEEN DREAMING	and think many of the stories very, very good ? just not the "best" for the focus on non-humanoids. 
> 	(In the one philosophy course I took, the instructor was eventually mildly horrified to infer that I wasn't The Scientist he'd stereotyped me as but [shudder], "You're a pragmatist!" Given that I added the SO LONG BEEN DREAMING stories, I should've clarified with "maybe not the best for the focus".)
> 
> Rich Erlich
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From curtissi at Grinnell.EDU  Sat Jan 14 15:59:41 2012
From: curtissi at Grinnell.EDU (Curtis, Silvio L)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:59:41 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>
References: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>
Message-ID: <683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140500D38B@MB1.grinnell.edu>

There's Asimov's "Each an Explorer."



Silvio

________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of GHMyst at aol.com [GHMyst at aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:05 PM
To: jeller at iupui.edu; shalabare at gmail.com; iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories

Has anyone mentioned "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight?

   Ed Wysocki
   Orlando, FL

In a message dated 1/14/2012 11:07:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jeller at iupui.edu writes:
Yet again, more spiders for you: Bradbury's "A Matter of taste,"
published in His Cat's Pajamas collection, is readily available in a
Harper perennial trade paperback. The story was rejected by F&SF in
1952 (Mick McComas didn't believe that an entire crew would fear
sentient arachnids), but it directly inspired a very different story
line for the 1953 film It Came From Outer Space. I finally convinced
him to publish the original short story in 2004. It's a bit rough and
obvious in places, but the entire story is told from the alien
perspective in a rather haunting way.

Best,

Jon

Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
Textual Editor, The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
Textual Editor, The Writings of Charles S. Peirce
Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
Indiana University School of Liberal Arts



At 6:22 PM -0500 1/13/12, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>Dear Hivemind,
>In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
>the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While
>this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work
>in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more -
>short stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of
>many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the
>Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders
>in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the
>brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a
>loss for great short stories on the topic.  So far I have:
>Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
>not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or
>off-list?
>I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
>of anything great there.
>Thanks in advance!
>Sha
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L mailing list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


--
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From cms at dragon.com  Sat Jan 14 16:39:35 2012
From: cms at dragon.com (Cindy Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:39:35 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140500D38B@MB1.grinnell.edu>
References: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140500D38B@MB1.grinnell.edu>
Message-ID: <20120114163935.55553putgtfu2yon@galaxy.dragon.com>

   Asimov's short story "What Is This Thing Called Love?" is sort of a  
first contact story and is a parody on UFO abduction tales.  It's  
hysterically funny.  It's about extraterrestrials who reproduce  
without sex who are curious about what appear to be two different  
species on planet Earth -- they have no concept of male and female.   
Despite the concept, like Asimov tales generally, it is rated G.

Yours,

-- 
Cindy Smith
cms at dragon.com

"All your base are belong to us.  You are on the way to destruction."   
"What you say?"  "You have no chance to survive make your time."   
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.  The Federation will be  
destroyed.  Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!  "Ubi est mors victoria  
tua?  ubi est mors stimulus tuus?  Stimulus autem mortis peccatum est:  
  virtus vero peccati lex.  Deo autem gratias qui dedit nobis  
victoriam per Dominum nostrum Ieusum Christum" (1 Cor 15:55-57).

A Real Live Catholic in Georgia!


Quoting "Curtis, Silvio L" <curtissi at Grinnell.EDU>:

> There's Asimov's "Each an Explorer."
>
>
>
> Silvio
>
> ________________________________
> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu  
> [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of GHMyst at aol.com  
> [GHMyst at aol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:05 PM
> To: jeller at iupui.edu; shalabare at gmail.com; iafa-l at sigcis.org;  
> sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
>
> Has anyone mentioned "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight?
>
>    Ed Wysocki
>    Orlando, FL
>
> In a message dated 1/14/2012 11:07:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> jeller at iupui.edu writes:
> Yet again, more spiders for you: Bradbury's "A Matter of taste,"
> published in His Cat's Pajamas collection, is readily available in a
> Harper perennial trade paperback. The story was rejected by F&SF in
> 1952 (Mick McComas didn't believe that an entire crew would fear
> sentient arachnids), but it directly inspired a very different story
> line for the 1953 film It Came From Outer Space. I finally convinced
> him to publish the original short story in 2004. It's a bit rough and
> obvious in places, but the entire story is told from the alien
> perspective in a rather haunting way.
>
> Best,
>
> Jon
>
> Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
> Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
> Textual Editor, The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
> Textual Editor, The Writings of Charles S. Peirce
> Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
> Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
> Indiana University School of Liberal Arts
>
>
>
> At 6:22 PM -0500 1/13/12, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>> Dear Hivemind,
>> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
>> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While
>> this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work
>> in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more -
>> short stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of
>> many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the
>> Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders
>> in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the
>> brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a
>> loss for great short stories on the topic.  So far I have:
>> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
>> not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or
>> off-list?
>> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
>> of anything great there.
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Sha
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>




From jlgordon at optonline.net  Sat Jan 14 17:31:05 2012
From: jlgordon at optonline.net (jlgordon at optonline.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:31:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
Message-ID: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>

Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G
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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 14 18:01:34 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:01:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <20120114163935.55553putgtfu2yon@galaxy.dragon.com>
References: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140500D38B@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<20120114163935.55553putgtfu2yon@galaxy.dragon.com>
Message-ID: <1326582094.75581.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I really like "Dear Devil" by? Eric Frank Russell, from 1950, in which a frightening looking Martian poet, unappreciated by his ship's crew, arrives on a devastated Earth and gets civilization going again. 


Despina





________________________________
 From: Cindy Smith <cms at dragon.com>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
 
? Asimov's short story "What Is This Thing Called Love?" is sort of a first contact story and is a parody on UFO abduction tales.? It's hysterically funny.? It's about extraterrestrials who reproduce without sex who are curious about what appear to be two different species on planet Earth -- they have no concept of male and female.? Despite the concept, like Asimov tales generally, it is rated G.

Yours,

--Cindy Smith
cms at dragon.com

"All your base are belong to us.? You are on the way to destruction."? "What you say?"? "You have no chance to survive make your time."? Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.? The Federation will be destroyed.? Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!? "Ubi est mors victoria tua?? ubi est mors stimulus tuus?? Stimulus autem mortis peccatum est:? virtus vero peccati lex.? Deo autem gratias qui dedit nobis victoriam per Dominum nostrum Ieusum Christum" (1 Cor 15:55-57).

A Real Live Catholic in Georgia!


Quoting "Curtis, Silvio L" <curtissi at Grinnell.EDU>:

> There's Asimov's "Each an Explorer."
> 
> 
> 
> Silvio
> 
> ________________________________
> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of GHMyst at aol.com [GHMyst at aol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:05 PM
> To: jeller at iupui.edu; shalabare at gmail.com; iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
> 
> Has anyone mentioned "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight?
> 
>? ? Ed Wysocki
>? ? Orlando, FL
> 
> In a message dated 1/14/2012 11:07:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jeller at iupui.edu writes:
> Yet again, more spiders for you: Bradbury's "A Matter of taste,"
> published in His Cat's Pajamas collection, is readily available in a
> Harper perennial trade paperback. The story was rejected by F&SF in
> 1952 (Mick McComas didn't believe that an entire crew would fear
> sentient arachnids), but it directly inspired a very different story
> line for the 1953 film It Came From Outer Space. I finally convinced
> him to publish the original short story in 2004. It's a bit rough and
> obvious in places, but the entire story is told from the alien
> perspective in a rather haunting way.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jon
> 
> Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
> Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
> Textual Editor, The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
> Textual Editor, The Writings of Charles S. Peirce
> Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
> Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
> Indiana University School of Liberal Arts
> 
> 
> 
> At 6:22 PM -0500 1/13/12, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>> Dear Hivemind,
>> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
>> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".? While
>> this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work
>> in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more -
>> short stories on the theme of first contact.? While I can think of
>> many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the
>> Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders
>> in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the
>> brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a
>> loss for great short stories on the topic.? So far I have:
>> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
>> not with more mundane humanoid ones.? Any suggestions, on- or
>> off-list?
>> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
>> of anything great there.
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Sha
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
> 
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
> 



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From christy.tidwell at gmail.com  Sat Jan 14 18:03:28 2012
From: christy.tidwell at gmail.com (Christy Tidwell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:03:28 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <CAJgP3qsn7A2d+hJdrwP0izJ4XYvO3zvhy-Y0ewto+wn4UZ3HVg@mail.gmail.com>

First thoughts: Octavia Butler's *Dawn, *Project Itoh's *Harmony *(if
you're not opposed to books in translation), or Dick's *Do Androids Dream
of Electric Sheep?* They're all relatively short and I've had good
experiences teaching them (particularly *Dawn*). If you work with a broader
definition of science fiction, some of the recent zombie novels could work
well - perhaps Alden Bell's *The Reapers Are the Angels* or Isaac
Marion's *Warm
Bodies. *Oh, and since you mentioned Emshwiller, how about *Carmen Dog*?
*
*Christy*
*
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:31 PM, <jlgordon at optonline.net> wrote:

> Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want
> it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some
> way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get
> enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same
> problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>


-- 
Only hatred shocks me. If we can love a date palm or a puppy or a cyborg,
perhaps we can love each other better also.

--Marge Piercy
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From grahammurphy at trentu.ca  Sat Jan 14 18:22:22 2012
From: grahammurphy at trentu.ca (Graham Murphy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:22:22 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <4F11C7CC.86A8.00A1.1@trentu.ca>

Hi Joan,
I routinely use Cory Doctorow's Overclocked: Stories of the Future Present to end my sf course. The "what it means to be human" angle is taken up in the posthuman narratives of "I, Robot" and "I-Rowboat" while "After the Siege" and "Printcrime" (and "I, Robot") address copyright issues and are collectively useful for a generation of students who download materials legally and illegally.  "When Sysadmins..." also ties in nicely with the internet generation and allows me to pull out Barlow's "Declaration on the Independence of Cyberspace."  Contact me off-list if you want more information about how I navigate through the stories, but students have really enjoyed the collection immensely and it is entirely free (legally!) from Doctorow's website, so it saves students some money.  I've also ended my course with Doctorow's Eastern Standard Tribe, but I'm not sure it is a culturally relevant because there is now a whole new crop of students who have never heard of Napster, so that might need more context-building. Finally, I've also ended with Robert Charles Wilson's The Chronoliths paired with Greg Egan's "The Hundred-Light-Year Diary," but that probably isn't sufficient for the "human?" angle.  Overall, I'd go with Overclocked.

Take care,
Graham J. Murphy
 
"Science explains the world, but only Art can reconcile us to it."
Stanislaw Lem
----------------------
Dr. Graham J. Murphy
Cultural Studies Department/
Department of English 
Trent University

>>> <jlgordon at optonline.net> 1/14/2012 5:31 pm >>>
Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G
 
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From Larsen at mail.ccsu.edu  Sat Jan 14 18:11:33 2012
From: Larsen at mail.ccsu.edu (Larsen, Kristine (Physics Earth Sciences))
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:11:33 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <F49B22CD0897EA44A3FD95E781D25B1A15021ADC2B@cexmb2.facstaff.ccsu.edu>

I recommend the zombie novels 'Brains' or 'Breathers'.

KL


Kristine Larsen, Ph.D.
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
Central Connecticut State University
860-832-2938
larsen at ccsu.edu
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jlgordon at optonline.net [jlgordon at optonline.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:31 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign

Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G



From wrochell at umw.edu  Sat Jan 14 19:58:27 2012
From: wrochell at umw.edu (Warren Rochelle (wrochell))
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:58:27 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <F49B22CD0897EA44A3FD95E781D25B1A15021ADC2B@cexmb2.facstaff.ccsu.edu>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>,
	<F49B22CD0897EA44A3FD95E781D25B1A15021ADC2B@cexmb2.facstaff.ccsu.edu>
Message-ID: <D15C42E25255E74C8DB64AA4FE6ACDA4F055B0@MSEXCH-DB.umw.local>

Maybe Cuckoo;s Egg/Cherryh
Warren Rochelle
Professor of English

English, Linguistics, & Communication
University of Mary Washington
1301 College Avenue
Fredericksburg, VA  22401

office: 540 654 1393
website: http://warrenrochelle.com
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Larsen, Kristine (Physics Earth Sciences) [Larsen at mail.ccsu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:11 PM
To: jlgordon at optonline.net; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] what to assign

I recommend the zombie novels 'Brains' or 'Breathers'.

KL


Kristine Larsen, Ph.D.
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
Central Connecticut State University
860-832-2938
larsen at ccsu.edu
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jlgordon at optonline.net [jlgordon at optonline.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:31 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign

Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G


_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From scanfiel at indiana.edu  Sat Jan 14 20:09:48 2012
From: scanfiel at indiana.edu (Sarah Canfield Fuller)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:09:48 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <1326582094.75581.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <5586.2521c177.3c432c00@aol.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140500D38B@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<20120114163935.55553putgtfu2yon@galaxy.dragon.com>
	<1326582094.75581.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4F12275C.8090607@indiana.edu>

What about Terry Bisson's "They're Made Out of Meat"?  It's quite short, 
funny, told from the point of view of radically different aliens, and 
even deals with the "ecology of everyday life" in a way.

Sarah Canfield Fuller

From jeller at iupui.edu  Sat Jan 14 21:01:32 2012
From: jeller at iupui.edu (Jon Eller)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:01:32 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <a06240800cb37e3823977@[10.0.1.3]>

Among mid-century titles, I'd recommend Sturgeon's The Dreaming 
Jewels or Bester's The Demolished Man.

Jon

Jonathan R. Eller, Professor of English
Director, The Center for Ray Bradbury Studies
Editor, The Collected Stories of Ray Bradbury
Textual Editor, The Writings of Charles S. Peirce
Textual Editor, The Works of George Santayana
Senior Textual Editor, Institute for American Thought
Indiana University School of Liberal Arts


At 10:31 PM +0000 1/14/12, jlgordon at optonline.net wrote:
>Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="Boundary_(ID_/MSFLKRF5unWWKn1UEoIHg)"
>Content-language: en
>
>Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I 
>want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be 
>human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's 
>perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe 
>Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out 
>there? Joan G
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L mailing list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


-- 

From ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu  Sat Jan 14 21:32:12 2012
From: ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:32:12 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <a06240800cb37e3823977@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
	<a06240800cb37e3823977@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <49F4D3DD-4C09-430F-BE1F-F6C91F8B0D09@MUOhio.edu>

> 
> At 10:31 PM +0000 1/14/12, jlgordon at optonline.net wrote:
>> Content-type: multipart/alternative;
>> boundary="Boundary_(ID_/MSFLKRF5unWWKn1UEoIHg)"
>> Content-language: en
>> 
>> Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I 
>> want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be 
>> human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's 
>> perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe 
>> Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out 
>> there? Joan G
>> 

It's SF but not science fiction in my book, and it's pretty much a downer for the end of a course ? but Robert Silverberg's _Dying Inside_ (1972) is available through on-line book sellers and has some interesting things to say about being human, though arguably with a male bias. (I ended my more advanced courses with J. Russ's _The Female Man_.)

	You might want to balance DYING INSIDE with something more upbeat and A-V, perhaps John Carpenter's STARMAN (1984) or one of the Data episodes from ST:TNG.

	"Data's Day."  Star  Trek; The Next Generation.  1990.  Robert Wiemer. dir.  Harold Apter and Ronald D. Moore, script, from a story by Apter.  Teri Taylor, supervising producer. 
 
                     A personal log of a day in the life of the android Data as he learns to be human; see for Data's similarities and important differences from Vulcans and Vulcanoids, his desire for human contact and feelings contrasting with "their stark philosophy," which he finds "somewhat [pause] limited." 
 
	"Datalore."  Star Trek: The Next Generation.  16 Jan. 1988 ([c] 1987).  Rob Bowman, dir.  Robert Lewin and Gene Roddenberry, story.  Robert Lewin and Maurice Hurley, script. 
 
                     The android Data returns to his home planet and meets his evil twin brother, Lore (Altman, 1990: 30).  Important for definition of "human" and the ways in which Mr. Data is rather more than human.

	"The Measure of a Man."  Star Trek: The Next Generation.  11 Feb. 1988.  Robert Scheerer, dir.  Melinda Snodgrass, script. 
 
                     Courtroom drama on the question of an android's rights.  Is Mr. Data a person under the law, or Starfleet's property?
 
	"The Offspring."  Star Trek: The Next Generation.  10 March 1990.  Jonathan Frakes, dir.  Rene Echevarria, script. 
 
                     Mr. Data produces and loses an android offspring, raising the question of "child" vs. "invention," and the centrality of feelings (esp. love) for the Trekkian definition of humanity.
 

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From jgunn at ku.edu  Sat Jan 14 23:12:22 2012
From: jgunn at ku.edu (Gunn, James E)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 04:12:22 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3125014D1A4A7C4391EC2803965DBA776D567403@EXCH10-MBX-03.home.ku.edu>

C.L. Moore's "No Woman Born" describes what it means to be human in terms of someone who may be becoming more than human, and Damon Knight's "Contagion" (I think that may be the title) treats the subject from a more dismal perspective.  And then, of course, there's Sturgeon's MORE THAN HUMAN, always a good discussion starter.  Jim
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of jlgordon at optonline.net [jlgordon at optonline.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:31 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign

Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G



From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Sun Jan 15 08:01:19 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 13:01:19 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
Message-ID: <W322733203772491326632479@webmail35>

There are siome golden oldies like "A Martian Odyssey," "Old Faithful" and "Davey Jones' Ambassador." Brian Stableford has examples by Rosny and others in his translations of French sf. No doubt many others are mentioned in the Clute encyclopedia.

--J.J.P.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare [mailto:shalabare at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 06:22 PM
To: iafa-l at sigcis.org, sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories

Dear Hivemind,In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life". While this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short stories on the theme of first contact. While I can think of many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short stories on the topic. So far I have:Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"Kij Johnson, "Spar"My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not with more mundane humanoid ones. Any suggestions, on- or off-list?I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think of anything great there.Thanks in advance!Sha_______________________________________________SFRA-L mailing listSFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Sun Jan 15 16:46:11 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:46:11 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] China Comics Syndrome
Message-ID: <W639362038041421326663971@webmail16>

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36381

--J.J.


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From lstarr at wesleyan.edu  Sun Jan 15 11:54:04 2012
From: lstarr at wesleyan.edu (Wesleyan Press)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:54:04 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] J.-H. Rosny -- Three ground-breaking works from a father
	of modern science fiction
Message-ID: <251406269585987277@jngomktg.net>

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From SDBERMAN at oaklandcc.edu  Mon Jan 16 13:04:30 2012
From: SDBERMAN at oaklandcc.edu (Berman, Steven D)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:04:30 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA1A62A463A8E440A706F35295E19A870DBBD52F@excsrv2.occnt.ad>

 

Hi Sha: I read this story a few years ago in the June issue of Analog. It   may be relevant to what you are looking for. It's called "At Last, the Sun," by Richard Foss. A near future shrimp boat on the Mississippi Delta is useless because most of the fish in the delta are dead due to runoff of fertilizer and manure from farms to the north. This runoff caused the proliferation of algae which died and eventually sapped the delta of its oxygen. So college researchers are now using the shrimp boat to try to solve the problem but happen upon a new fish that still survives from the pre-historic days when earth had non oxygenated water.    

Steve Berman
sfraetroit2012.com

________________________________

From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare
Sent: Fri 1/13/2012 6:22 PM
To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories



Dear Hivemind,
In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together the
syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this is
not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf theory
and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short stories on
the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many awesome passages
from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the
first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from
Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter near the end of
Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short stories on the
topic.  So far I have:
Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
Kij Johnson, "Spar"
My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not
with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think of
anything great there.
Thanks in advance!
Sha
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


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From jlgordon at optonline.net  Mon Jan 16 22:12:09 2012
From: jlgordon at optonline.net (jlgordon at optonline.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 03:12:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [SFRA-L] thanks
Message-ID: <e4dcc25d18929.4f14e709@optonline.net>

Thank you, hive mind, for your suggestions on what to assign. I'm leaning toward Butler's Dawn. Joan
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From arduncan at frostburg.edu  Mon Jan 16 11:51:58 2012
From: arduncan at frostburg.edu (Andrew R Duncan)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:51:58 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33AE3E@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>

The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction's entry on "First Contact" has a decent starter list: http://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/first_contact.  Follow the cross-references for more.

The outstanding recent story on the theme is Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life" (1998), which deservedly won the Nebula and Sturgeon awards. Originally in _Starlight 2_ (1998), it's included in Chiang's 2002 collection _Stories of Your Life and Others_, now back in print in paper from Small Beer Press.  --  Andy

Andy Duncan
Assistant Professor
Department of English
313-B Dunkle Hall
Frostburg State University
(301) 687-4241
arduncan at frostburg.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org [mailto:iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org] On Behalf Of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 6:22 PM
To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories

Dear Hivemind,
In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City, any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short stories on the topic.  So far I have:
Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
Kij Johnson, "Spar"
My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think of anything great there.
Thanks in advance!
Sha
_______________________________________________
IAFA-L mailing list
IAFA-L at sigcis.org
http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l

From shalabare at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 00:03:00 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:03:00 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for your great responses!  At the moment I'm leaning 
towards:

Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes", and possibly "Author the Acacia Seeds" as well
Kij Johnson, "Spar"
Naomi Mitchison, Memoirs of a Spacewoman (first episode only)
Terry Bisson, "They're Made Out of Meat"

I've chosen these mostly because they are pared down, and won't require 
a lot of grappling with sf as a reading practice or dealing with the 
codes of reading old sf or hard sf.  Stories like Swanwick's 
"Ginunganap", Chiang's "Story of Your Life", Slonczewski's "Microbe", 
Campbell's "Who Goes There?", or Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey" would be 
great to read, but would I think require a little too much extra effort 
to deal with.
Thanks again and
remain in light,
Sha

On 1/13/2012 6:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
> Dear Hivemind,
> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together 
> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this 
> is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf 
> theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short 
> stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many 
> awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in 
> White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City, 
> any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter 
> near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short 
> stories on the topic.  So far I have:
> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens, 
> not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think 
> of anything great there.
> Thanks in advance!
> Sha


From shalabare at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 01:21:59 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 01:21:59 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
Message-ID: <4F151387.8050701@gmail.com>

Andy,
You're right, of course, particularly within the constraints of our 
ubiquitous U.S. American puritanism.  That said, explicit and weird 
sexuality are, I think, just the cost of doing business when it comes to 
the kind of first contact I'm addressing in this course.  The world is 
alive, it eats, excretes, dies, maims, and has sex.  I don't mind 
grappling with that; I'm less enthusiastic about spending time on the 
reading practices that are second nature for you or I, but that my 
students will probably find difficult and bizarre. The incredibly icky 
and frightening experience of letting a spider crawl across your face is 
the kind of thing I'm interested here, not philosophical conundrums of 
identity or the historical experience of patriarchy.  In other words, 
it's just a choice on what difficulties are worth taking on in this 
context and which aren't.
remain in light,
Sha

On 1/17/2012 12:33 AM, Andrew R Duncan wrote:
> My hat's off to you, if you don't think Johnson's "Spar" itself would require "extra effort to deal with."  I can scarcely think of a recent story that requires more!  --  Andy
>
> Andy Duncan
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> 313-B Dunkle Hall
> Frostburg State University
> (301) 687-4241
> arduncan at frostburg.edu
> ________________________________________
> From: iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org [iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org] on behalf of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare [shalabare at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:03 AM
> To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
>
> Thanks everyone for your great responses!  At the moment I'm leaning
> towards:
>
> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes", and possibly "Author the Acacia Seeds" as well
> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
> Naomi Mitchison, Memoirs of a Spacewoman (first episode only)
> Terry Bisson, "They're Made Out of Meat"
>
> I've chosen these mostly because they are pared down, and won't require
> a lot of grappling with sf as a reading practice or dealing with the
> codes of reading old sf or hard sf.  Stories like Swanwick's
> "Ginunganap", Chiang's "Story of Your Life", Slonczewski's "Microbe",
> Campbell's "Who Goes There?", or Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey" would be
> great to read, but would I think require a little too much extra effort
> to deal with.
> Thanks again and
> remain in light,
> Sha
>
> On 1/13/2012 6:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>> Dear Hivemind,
>> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
>> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this
>> is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf
>> theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short
>> stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many
>> awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in
>> White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City,
>> any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter
>> near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short
>> stories on the topic.  So far I have:
>> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
>> not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
>> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
>> of anything great there.
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Sha
> _______________________________________________
> IAFA-L mailing list
> IAFA-L at sigcis.org
> http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l
> _______________________________________________
> IAFA-L mailing list
> IAFA-L at sigcis.org
> http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l


From ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu  Tue Jan 17 09:21:48 2012
From: ErlichRD at MUOhio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 06:21:48 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com> <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF815C57-FF79-4A66-B1E6-C9F3C28668C6@MUOhio.edu>

It's a late entry or a repetition  ? but "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" may feature an entity even more alien in terms of ... Terran-taxon analogs. 


On 16/01/2012, at 21:03, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:

> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes", and possibly "Author the Acacia Seeds" as well

________________________________________
Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
	Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
	Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From arduncan at frostburg.edu  Tue Jan 17 00:33:04 2012
From: arduncan at frostburg.edu (Andrew R Duncan)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 05:33:04 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
In-Reply-To: <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>,<4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>

My hat's off to you, if you don't think Johnson's "Spar" itself would require "extra effort to deal with."  I can scarcely think of a recent story that requires more!  --  Andy

Andy Duncan
Assistant Professor
Department of English
313-B Dunkle Hall
Frostburg State University
(301) 687-4241
arduncan at frostburg.edu
________________________________________
From: iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org [iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org] on behalf of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare [shalabare at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:03 AM
To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories

Thanks everyone for your great responses!  At the moment I'm leaning
towards:

Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes", and possibly "Author the Acacia Seeds" as well
Kij Johnson, "Spar"
Naomi Mitchison, Memoirs of a Spacewoman (first episode only)
Terry Bisson, "They're Made Out of Meat"

I've chosen these mostly because they are pared down, and won't require
a lot of grappling with sf as a reading practice or dealing with the
codes of reading old sf or hard sf.  Stories like Swanwick's
"Ginunganap", Chiang's "Story of Your Life", Slonczewski's "Microbe",
Campbell's "Who Goes There?", or Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey" would be
great to read, but would I think require a little too much extra effort
to deal with.
Thanks again and
remain in light,
Sha

On 1/13/2012 6:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
> Dear Hivemind,
> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While this
> is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf
> theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short
> stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many
> awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in
> White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine City,
> any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F encounter
> near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short
> stories on the topic.  So far I have:
> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
> not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off-list?
> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
> of anything great there.
> Thanks in advance!
> Sha

_______________________________________________
IAFA-L mailing list
IAFA-L at sigcis.org
http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Tue Jan 17 10:10:30 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:10:30 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] "Getting it"
In-Reply-To: <AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
Message-ID: <9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>

Hadn't read "Spar" before, but now that I have I can see Joan's  
point: they'd never make it into an XXX-rated video for the Syfy  
Channel, but if they did, the general audience would "get" it (Not  
the same as getting off on it!) in a way that it wouldn't get "Story  
of Your Life" or even "A Martian Odyssey" -- no one-one-two, no two- 
two-four!

But this led me to think about how the same principle applies to  
other sf works. I've recently read Stephen King's 11/22.63 and  
Alastair Reynolds' THE PREFECT. King's novel is a real page-turner  
for the general as well as the sf audience, and I don't mean that as  
a put-down -- it's a serious novel about the danger of trying to play  
God. A lot of people, like the hero, think the world would be better  
off, maybe even a paradise, if JFK had lived. But can we really be  
SURE of that? Would it REALLY be right to try to "fix" history?

Now King has assimilated the basic sf tropes of time travel and  
alternate history, and even Fritz Leiber's idea of the Law of  
Conservation of Reality (since embraced by Connie Willis and others),  
These have become familiar enough through movies and TV shows that  
general readers can get their heads around them. But whereas THE  
PREFECT was a page-turner for ME, I can't imagine the typical Stephen  
King fan managing to get through it -- there's just too much  
invention of a kind NOT familiar to the general readership -- from  
the overall background (not like on-screen space opera) to the  
details about baseline humans, versus other types like Conjoiners,  
alpha and beta level simulacra, and so on. I can see the parallels  
between the personalities and conflicts of the Panoply and those of  
John LeCarr?'s Circus in TINKER, TAILOR, SOLDIER, SPY -- but again, I  
think a Le Carr? fan would soon become hopelessly lost in Reynolds'  
novel.

I'm sure people here can think of many other examples of the same  
sort of contrast.

--J.J.P.




On Jan 17, 2012, at 12:33 AM, Andrew R Duncan wrote:

> My hat's off to you, if you don't think Johnson's "Spar" itself  
> would require "extra effort to deal with."  I can scarcely think of  
> a recent story that requires more!  --  Andy
>
> Andy Duncan
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> 313-B Dunkle Hall
> Frostburg State University
> (301) 687-4241
> arduncan at frostburg.edu
> ________________________________________
> From: iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org [iafa-l-bounces at sigcis.org] on  
> behalf of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare [shalabare at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:03 AM
> To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [IAFA-L] best first contact short stories
>
> Thanks everyone for your great responses!  At the moment I'm leaning
> towards:
>
> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes", and possibly "Author the Acacia Seeds"  
> as well
> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
> Naomi Mitchison, Memoirs of a Spacewoman (first episode only)
> Terry Bisson, "They're Made Out of Meat"
>
> I've chosen these mostly because they are pared down, and won't  
> require
> a lot of grappling with sf as a reading practice or dealing with the
> codes of reading old sf or hard sf.  Stories like Swanwick's
> "Ginunganap", Chiang's "Story of Your Life", Slonczewski's "Microbe",
> Campbell's "Who Goes There?", or Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey"  
> would be
> great to read, but would I think require a little too much extra  
> effort
> to deal with.
> Thanks again and
> remain in light,
> Sha
>
> On 1/13/2012 6:22 PM, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>> Dear Hivemind,
>> In my usual just-in-time fashion, this weekend I'm putting together
>> the syllabus for my course "The Ecology of Everyday Life".  While  
>> this
>> is not an sf course per se, it is heavily inspired by my work in sf
>> theory and I'm looking to include a few - and possibly more - short
>> stories on the theme of first contact.  While I can think of many
>> awesome passages from novels - e.g. the arrival of the Aleutians in
>> White Queen, the first actual meeting with the Spiders in Engine  
>> City,
>> any episode from Memoirs of a Spacewoman, even the brief F2F  
>> encounter
>> near the end of Dragon's Egg - I'm kind of at a loss for great short
>> stories on the topic.  So far I have:
>> Ursula K. Le Guin, "Mazes"
>> Kij Johnson, "Spar"
>> My focus is obviously on first contact with radically alien aliens,
>> not with more mundane humanoid ones.  Any suggestions, on- or off- 
>> list?
>> I am also open to clips and blips from other media in case you think
>> of anything great there.
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Sha
>
> _______________________________________________
> IAFA-L mailing list
> IAFA-L at sigcis.org
> http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>


From ddavis at gdn.edu  Tue Jan 17 13:41:33 2012
From: ddavis at gdn.edu (Davis, Doug)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:41:33 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign
In-Reply-To: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
References: <e4c2e71e19777.4f120229@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDF02FD434@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>

Keyes's Flowers for Algernon is short and poignant and somewhat on that topic. It would be accessible for undergrads and there should be many many copies out there (and it was made into a pretty good little film).

Doug Davis, Ph.D.
Editor, SFRA Review
Associate Professor of English
Division of Humanities
Gordon College
419 College Drive
Barnesville, GA 30204
ddavis at gdn.edu
(678) 359 5817 (office)
(678) 359 5140 (fax)

From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jlgordon at optonline.net
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:31 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] what to assign

Dear Hive-Mind, I'm looking for a novel to end my sf course with. I want it to be relatively short, and to explore what it means to be human in some way. I've used The Mount by Emshwiller and it's perfect, but I can't get enough copies of it. So I thought maybe Lethem's Girl in Landscape. Same problem. Any other bright ideas out there? Joan G

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From thespike at satx.rr.com  Tue Jan 17 18:24:36 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:24:36 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>,
	<4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
Message-ID: <4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>

On 1/17/2012 9:10 AM, John Pierce wrote:

> whereas THE PREFECT was a page-turner for ME, I can't imagine the
> typical Stephen King fan managing to get through it -- there's just too
> much invention of a kind NOT familiar to the general readership -- from
> the overall background (not like on-screen space opera) to the details
> about baseline humans, versus other types like Conjoiners, alpha and
> beta level simulacra, and so on.

By contrast, it seems likely to me that hardly anyone with well-trained 
sf sensibilities will be able to watch this incredibly stupid movie 
(ANOTHER EARTH ) without screaming repeatedly in pain. Yes, yes, it's an 
*allegory*, it's a *parable*, it's *onieric*, it's a *work of filmic 
art*, not a treatise in celestial mechanics or realistic human 
psychology or jurisprudence or the actual workings of mass market 
contests or--

A quick cruise around the net showed what I expected; lots of snide 
strutty kid mockery at the NERDS who care about how things really 
function, plus a bit of handwavy quantobabble. One guy did notice that 
the other earth never rotates, due to the fact that the image has been 
lazily cut&pasted from the celebrated "blue marble" whole earth shot 
from an Apollo mission.##

And it's *poignant*, not played for laughs. Could a standard non-sf 
audience sit raptly in front of a routine movie in which (let's say) it 
just happened that cars were spontaneously generated from milk bottles, 
or you become increasingly fat as you climb a hill, or you walk to 
Paris, which is in Africa, from New Zealand, or or or...? That sort of 
thing would be dubbed surrealism or farce, yet I haven't seen claims 
that ANOTHER EARTH is anything but a touching tale of guilt, remorse, 
tormented love, and maybe the good old Doppelganger theme getting a workout.

Damien Broderick
##<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg/300px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg>

From thespike at satx.rr.com  Tue Jan 17 19:21:24 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:21:24 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] more on ANOTHER EARTH--the vox pop voxes
Message-ID: <4F161084.9070009@satx.rr.com>

WARNING! SPOILERS ABOUND BELOW--	

[This is from a website of film fanciers]

Bonk posted:

     This is entirely ridiculous because he would also exist there.  Hi 
honey! It's me! I can't believe you're alive! This is amazing! Oh... I 
see you already have a husband. Other Me. poo poo. Welp...


Someone asked about that at the Q&A and the director and he was just 
kinda {SMILEY INDICATING GORMLESS GRIN AND SHRUGGING WITH RAISED HANDS}

[someone else posts:]

Would've been awesome if  she went on the shuttle and has to take 
control of it after something goes wrong, and she steers it into a 
shuttle that had launched from the other Earth, killing the guy's wife 
and kid. Or even more awesome, after the scene where he plays the saw 
for her they go back to his house and he saws her in half because he's a 
serial killer. Then he goes to Another Earth and steals his equals 
identity (who hadn't turned into a killer because his family had never 
died) and starts killing people. Or even way more awesome, everyone 
involved in the accident in the beginning dies, and also the documentary 
style narrator from later in the movie, and the rest of the movie is 
spent exploring the idea of another Earth.

[other people mention some blazingly obvious problems:]

axleblaze posted:

     ENDING SPOILER AHOY! I'll try and keep my bitching about it to a 
minimum.

      In the end she gets selected to go to the other Earth. She 
celebrates with the guy but he finds out that she is responsible for the 
death of his family and is obviously upset. She then randomly hears a 
theory on the TV that as soon as the Earths first observed each other, 
they stopped being exactly the same. Based on what the random TV man 
said she figures there's a chance that his family is still alive on the 
other Earth and gives him her ticket (because I guess that's how that 
works). He goes and she stays. Both Earths send shuttles and they both 
arrive at the same time. In the last shot the other Earth version of 
herself approaches her.


Wait, doesn't that mean  that the guy's family is dead on Other-Earth? 
 From the trailer, it looks like the only reason she wins a spot on the 
shuttle is because of her amazing "Wow I really hosed up" essay, so 
Other-Her wouldn't be on that shuttle if the guy's family is alive there.

[more:]

axleblaze posted:

     Once again, the other Earth just acts as a giant metaphor in the 
movie. It's not important. Going into this movie expecting a scifi movie 
will lead to extreme disappointment (though, IMO going in without that 
expectation will also lead to disappointment).


So in a movie where all of the advertisement shows another planet 
orbiting the earth, where the trailers talk about going to visit this 
other earth, and where the name of the movie is "Another Earth", I 
should not expect a scifi movie, but at the same time I should expect a 
scifi movie?

[and blah blah blah--some pretty funny, but I've discarded the url, bad 
luck.]

Damien Broderick

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Tue Jan 17 20:42:25 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:42:25 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] more on ANOTHER EARTH--the vox pop voxes
Message-ID: <W50911918664981326850945@webmail28>

 Sounds like something to avoid like the plague.

--J.J.

-----Original Message-----
From: Damien Broderick [mailto:thespike at satx.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 07:21 PM
To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu, fictionmags at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SFRA-L] more on ANOTHER EARTH--the vox pop voxes

WARNING! SPOILERS ABOUND BELOW--	[This is from a website of film fanciers]Bonk posted: This is entirely ridiculous because he would also exist there. Hi honey! It's me! I can't believe you're alive! This is amazing! Oh... I see you already have a husband. Other Me. poo poo. Welp...Someone asked about that at the Q&A and the director and he was just kinda {SMILEY INDICATING GORMLESS GRIN AND SHRUGGING WITH RAISED HANDS}[someone else posts:]Would've been awesome if she went on the shuttle and has to take control of it after something goes wrong, and she steers it into a shuttle that had launched from the other Earth, killing the guy's wife and kid. Or even more awesome, after the scene where he plays the saw for her they go back to his house and he saws her in half because he's a serial killer. Then he goes to Another Earth and steals his equals identity (who hadn't turned into a killer because his family had never died) and starts killing people. Or even way more awesome, everyone involved in the accident in the beginning dies, and also the documentary style narrator from later in the movie, and the rest of the movie is spent exploring the idea of another Earth.[other people mention some blazingly obvious problems:]axleblaze posted: ENDING SPOILER AHOY! I'll try and keep my bitching about it to a minimum. In the end she gets selected to go to the other Earth. She celebrates with the guy but he finds out that she is responsible for the death of his family and is obviously upset. She then randomly hears a theory on the TV that as soon as the Earths first observed each other, they stopped being exactly the same. Based on what the random TV man said she figures there's a chance that his family is still alive on the other Earth and gives him her ticket (because I guess that's how that works). He goes and she stays. Both Earths send shuttles and they both arrive at the same time. In the last shot the other Earth version of herself approaches her.Wait, doesn't that mean that the guy's family is dead on Other-Earth? From the trailer, it looks like the only reason she wins a spot on the shuttle is because of her amazing "Wow I really hosed up" essay, so Other-Her wouldn't be on that shuttle if the guy's family is alive there.[more:]axleblaze posted: Once again, the other Earth just acts as a giant metaphor in the movie. It's not important. Going into this movie expecting a scifi movie will lead to extreme disappointment (though, IMO going in without that expectation will also lead to disappointment).So in a movie where all of the advertisement shows another planet orbiting the earth, where the trailers talk about going to visit this other earth, and where the name of the movie is "Another Earth", I should not expect a scifi movie, but at the same time I should expect a scifi movie?[and blah blah blah--some pretty funny, but I've discarded the url, bad luck.]Damien Broderick_______________________________________________SFRA-L mailing listSFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Wed Jan 18 02:01:42 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 23:01:42 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>

DB> By contrast, it seems likely to me that hardly anyone with well-trained
DB> sf sensibilities will be able to watch this incredibly stupid movie 
DB> (ANOTHER EARTH ) without screaming repeatedly in pain. Yes, yes, it's an
DB> *allegory*, it's a *parable*, it's *onieric*, it's a *work of filmic 
DB> art*, not a treatise in celestial mechanics or realistic human 
DB> psychology or jurisprudence or the actual workings of mass market 
DB> contests or--

this  seems  to  me  unnecessarily  harsh. Why exactly do you think it
is   "incredibly   stupid"?   This   is   very   clearly  a slipstream
movie,  which  never wanted to be SF or sci-fi. I personally liked how
it flows visually - whatever this makes me or my sf sensibilities.

Pawel




From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Wed Jan 18 05:16:55 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:16:55 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Fwd: ANOTHER EARTH (was Re:
 =?us-ascii?Q?=22Gettingg?=giiit")
Message-ID: <W817841938983941326881815@webmail6>

 Somehow I doubt that the producers of ANOTHER EARTH have even heard of slipstream. Abd if we're goiing to apply that term to movies that don't make any sense, why stop at ANOTHER EARTH? Maybe the Transformers series is slipstream. Or, retroacftively, how about MARS NEEDS WOMEN and PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE!


--J.J.P.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pawel Frelik [mailto:pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 02:01 AM
To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")

DB> By contrast, it seems likely to me that hardly anyone with well-trainedDB> sf sensibilities will be able to watch this incredibly stupid movie DB> (ANOTHER EARTH ) without screaming repeatedly in pain. Yes, yes, it's anDB> *allegory*, it's a *parable*, it's *onieric*, it's a *work of filmic DB> art*, not a treatise in celestial mechanics or realistic human DB> psychology or jurisprudence or the actual workings of mass market DB> contests or--this seems to me unnecessarily harsh. Why exactly do you think itis "incredibly stupid"? This is very clearly a slipstreammovie, which never wanted to be SF or sci-fi. I personally liked howit flows visually - whatever this makes me or my sf sensibilities.Pawel_______________________________________________SFRA-L mailing listSFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From thespike at satx.rr.com  Wed Jan 18 11:46:26 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:46:26 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH
In-Reply-To: <5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>,
	<4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>
	<5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <4F16F762.7010505@satx.rr.com>

On 1/18/2012 1:01 AM, Pawel Frelik wrote:

> this  seems  to  me  unnecessarily  harsh. Why exactly do you think it
> is   "incredibly   stupid"?

Let me count the ways.

> This   is   very   clearly  a slipstream
> movie,  which  never wanted to be SF

I didn't mean that its ambition was to be an sf movie, but that viewers 
with predominantly sf sensibilities would be frustrated or outraged.

I meant by that only that we read a text with science-like markers as 
being positioned within a rational worldview. We know from our 
familiarity with the real world that a planet the size of the Earth 
can't possibly just appear overnight, unheralded by astronomers, as a 
little blue dot, and within a few years be larger in the sky than the 
Earth is from the surface of the Moon. We know that if a planet of that 
size *did* manage to pop into existence from a wormhole or "hyperspatial 
tube" (say), its tidal effects would become massively disruptive as it 
approached. (Apparently scenes later cut from the film showed flowers 
floating in the air to demonstrate such an effect--which is typically 
laughable pre-Galilean physics, however "pretty," since in the universe 
of the movie flowers are presumably light and so can easily be drawn up 
by gravity, unlike the woman's body.)

Essentially (SPOILER), the only way to make any sense of this film is to 
treat is as Daliesque surrealism--which maybe you did, Pawel--or, if it 
is meant to engage our sympathies as mimetic in *any* degree, as a 
PINCHER MARTIN-style extended hallucination, either caused by the 17 
year old science-obsessed girl's stoned partying, or in the moment of 
her fatal car accident. Even the latter option is really ruled out, 
because the movie tells us that the accident was *caused* by her being 
distracted by a radio report of, and the sight of, the new planet.

So we're back to *oneiric fantastika*, or TWILIGHT ZONE sentimental 
whimsy, something fundamentally detached from how we know the world 
actually works even as it presents itself as poignantly gritty and 
realistic and mediated via post-traumatic stress.

Damien Broderick

From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Wed Jan 18 12:52:26 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:52:26 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] Fwd: ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Gettingggiiit")
In-Reply-To: <W817841938983941326881815@webmail6>
References: <W817841938983941326881815@webmail6>
Message-ID: <323803165.20120118095226@umcs.edu.pl>

pec> Somehow I doubt that the producers of ANOTHER EARTH have even
pec> heard of slipstream. Abd if we're goiing to apply that term to
pec> movies that don't make any sense, why stop at ANOTHER EARTH?

I  think  knowing  the  term has nothing to do with producing a work -
particularly  so  with slipstream. Most writers included on Sterling's
and  other authors' slipstream lists have never heard about slipstream
either,  which  does  not  stop  us  from considering them slipstream,
fantastika, or non-genre SF.

Also,  I  suppose  many  people  here  would  agree  that  one  of the
parameters   of   slipstream   writing,   and  by  extension  - cinema
(however general and provisional such parameters might be), is
precisely  is  that  slipstream  does  not reflect rational/scientific
worldview and is often closer to postmodern aesthetics.

In  the  same  way  (one  could argue about degrees but I suspect this
wouldn't  get  us  far), von Trier's MELANCHOLIA, and particularly its
final  moments,  does  not  make much scientific sense, which does not
make it any less an accomplished film.

I  am  not  saying  that  ANOTHER  EARTH  is  of  the  same caliber as
MELANCHOLIA,  but  perhaps  the  rigorous and exclusive application of
scientific/rational categories to the former does not exhaust the ways
in which we can talk about it.

pec> Maybe the Transformers series is slipstream. Or, retroacftively,
pec> how about MARS NEEDS WOMEN and PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE!

As above. MARS NEEDS WOMEN and PLAN  NINE FROM OUTER SPACE
were to a large extent produced within the SF film milieu of the 1950s
and 1960s, such as   it   was.  Transformers  is  not  slipstream  and
it is not even an  instance  of  narrative  cinema (which does not mean
it  can't  have some basic and silly narrative) - I'd argue that it is
essentially the new "cinema of attractions" (to use Gunning's term) and
considering it from the same vantage point and using the same criteria as
for  2001  or  BLADE  RUNNER  is  always  going  to  produce  negative
assessments.

Pawel 


From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Wed Jan 18 13:19:51 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:19:51 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH
Message-ID: <1064132870.20120118101951@umcs.edu.pl>

DB> I didn't mean that its ambition was to be an sf movie, but that viewers
DB> with predominantly sf sensibilities would be frustrated or outraged.

I  completely agree with this - then again this effect would be mostly
produced by the viewers' expectations. In the last two or three decades
we  have  seen  more  and more of such texts (literary, cinematic, and
other)  which,  while using many of the props of genre SF, do not even
strive to reflect the rational worldview. And that's fine.

DB> I meant by that only that we read a text with science-like markers as 
DB> being positioned within a rational worldview. We know from our 
DB> familiarity with the real world that a planet the size of the Earth 
DB> can't possibly just appear overnight, unheralded by astronomers, as a 
DB> little blue dot, and within a few years be larger in the sky than the 
DB> Earth is from the surface of the Moon. We know that if a planet of that
DB> size *did* manage to pop into existence from a wormhole or "hyperspatial
DB> tube" (say), its tidal effects would become massively disruptive as it
DB> approached. (Apparently scenes later cut from the film showed flowers 
DB> floating in the air to demonstrate such an effect--which is typically 
DB> laughable pre-Galilean physics, however "pretty," since in the universe
DB> of the movie flowers are presumably light and so can easily be drawn up
DB> by gravity, unlike the woman's body.)

Again,      you're      absolutely     right     -     except     that
many  non-genre  /  slipstream / fantastika texts use such props (twin
planet  etc.) to do other things. Also, let us not forget that this is
a  film, and there are many more aspects to this form than a narrative
of  science.  Sure, ANOTHER EARTH is nonsensical scientifically and it
may  even be "stupid scientifically" but I don't think it is stupid as
a film.

DB> Essentially (SPOILER), the only way to make any sense of this film is to
DB> treat is as Daliesque surrealism--which maybe you did, Pawel--or, if it
DB> is meant to engage our sympathies as mimetic in *any* degree

"Daliesque  surrealism" - well put, even if this again streamlines the
thinking  about  it  into  the  groove  of how rational/irrational its
science is. First of all, I thought about it as _A_ film, which opens up
many  more  aspects  than  its narrative or its science. And if you go
beyond  the  opening  and  the  closing  scene, its mimesis is largely
psychological.

DB> So we're back to *oneiric fantastika*, or TWILIGHT ZONE sentimental
DB> whimsy, something fundamentally detached from how we know the world 
DB> actually works even as it presents itself as poignantly gritty and 
DB> realistic and mediated via post-traumatic stress.

absolutely -  except, so what? If this was not meant to be a genre SF
film,  which  it clearly wasn't, it can do whatever it pleases and our
raging  at  its  silly  use of science is reminiscent of Leslie Marmon
Silko's  rage  at  Gary  Snyder  for  using  Indian  motifs in _Turtle
Island_.  There is _A_ point there, but it hardly disqualifies the
film as a whole.

Pawel




From vallen at iastate.edu  Wed Jan 18 14:13:46 2012
From: vallen at iastate.edu (Allen, Virginia [ENGL])
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:13:46 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>, <5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E41@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>

The post below was written before Pawel Frelik's good-enough recovery in her next two posts.  I've  only skimmed them so far, but like the feel of it.  For those who haven't followed the shifting of the argument, I want to offer the following anyway. 
_________

WRITTEN EARLIER:
I expect most readers are saying to themselves, ?I just don?t know what to read next.  Gee, I  wish Virginia would come along and make one of her excellent suggestions.?

Well, all right then.  I suggest Daniel Kahneman?s _Thinking, Fast and Slow_.  It?s a book about learning to think better and, hence, argue more effectively.  At least go to Amazon.com and read the introduction on line and look at the table of contents.  He says: ?... I hope to enrich the vocabulary people use when they talk about the judgments and choices of others, the company?s new policies, or a colleague?s investment decisions.....  Much of the discussion this book is about biases of intuition.  However, the focus on error does not denigrate human intelligenc, anymore  than the attention to diseases [in medical texts] denies good health.........?

One of the heuristics Kahneman talks about is ?answering an easier question when you can?t answer the hard one.?

What follows is NOT Kahneman?s fault.  This is not his analysis.  I just happened to be reading his book when the current discussion about ANOTHER EARTH came up.

Pawel starts with ?>this? seems? to? me? unnecessarily? harsh.>?  What is the antecedent to ?this?? Is she referencing DB?s argument about Another Earth or is it his vile character and harsh tone?

Read the next sentence: ?Why exactly do you think it is?? ?incredibly?? stupid????Since DB has gone on already at some length about the movie, the reader has a right to be confused.?

Now she refutes his supposed inadequate response. ?This?? is?? very?? clearly? a slipstream movie,? which? never wanted to be SF or sci-fi.?  Not having seen the movie yet, I can?t presume to judge it, but just to stir the pot I might ask just how much flexibility should we grant the physics of someone who does not presume to play with the net up.  (The TV series ?Lost? comes to mind. I so MUCH wanted to like that series, until they just finally made it way too hard for me to suspend my disbelief.)

But here?s the kicker in Pawel?s comment: ?I personally liked how it flows visually - whatever this makes me or my sf sensibilities.?

To respond to her, Damien is required to apologize for his, presumed, attack on her sensibilities.

It's THIS rhetorical trick that I object to.

V. Allen 
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Pawel Frelik [pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:01 AM
To: SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")

DB> By contrast, it seems likely to me that hardly anyone with well-trained
DB> sf sensibilities will be able to watch this incredibly stupid movie
DB> (ANOTHER EARTH ) without screaming repeatedly in pain. Yes, yes, it's an
DB> *allegory*, it's a *parable*, it's *onieric*, it's a *work of filmic
DB> art*, not a treatise in celestial mechanics or realistic human
DB> psychology or jurisprudence or the actual workings of mass market
DB> contests or--

this  seems  to  me  unnecessarily  harsh. Why exactly do you think it
is   "incredibly   stupid"?   This   is   very   clearly  a slipstream
movie,  which  never wanted to be SF or sci-fi. I personally liked how
it flows visually - whatever this makes me or my sf sensibilities.

Pawel



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Wed Jan 18 21:35:49 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:35:49 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E41@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>,
	<5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E41@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <1205715399.20120118183549@umcs.edu.pl>

AVE> The post below was written before Pawel Frelik's good-enough
AVE> recovery in her next two posts.  I've  only skimmed them so far,
AVE> but like the feel of it.

apart from two objections to your presentation of the exchange, which I
include below, I would like to note that Pawel Frelik is a "he." He is
not  famous  in  any  way, but a simple Google search will demonstrate
this.:)

AVE> Read the next sentence: ?Why exactly do you think it is??
AVE> ?incredibly?? stupid????Since DB has gone on already at some
AVE> length about the movie, the reader has a right to be confused.?

He  did, but - at least to my mind - none of the things included there
demonstrated  the film to be "incredibly stupid" - hence the question.


AVE> To respond to her, Damien is required to apologize for his,
AVE> presumed, attack on her sensibilities.
AVE> It's THIS rhetorical trick that I object to.

this  was not a rhetorical trick, Damien was not required to apologize
for  anything,  and  he, rightfully, did not.

Best,

Pawel


From vallen at iastate.edu  Thu Jan 19 12:44:12 2012
From: vallen at iastate.edu (Allen, Virginia [ENGL])
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:44:12 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <1205715399.20120118183549@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>, <4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>
	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>, <5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E41@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<1205715399.20120118183549@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E44@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>

I do apologize for the gender identity confusion.   However, I'll just take your word for it since Googling every name I come across would be impractical for me.  My failure in this case was not the failure to Google Pawel Frelik, but failing to see the obvious cognate in a name I was unfamiliar with.  I cannot account for the fact that until this afternoon it never occurred to me that "Pawel" is halfway between Pavel and Paul, both of which I am very familiar with.  

On the question of what is "required" of Damien Broderick, please allow me to clarify that as well.  The "obligation" I spoke of was rhetorical/grammatical.  If I say of a given transitive verb that it "requires" a direct object, I do not mean to say that the agent is obligated under civil law to produce said direct object and failure to produce said object will result in the assessing of fines, incarceration, or  possibly pilloring in the public square.  Descriptively stated, there are a limited number of variations on the forms of sentences native speakers can produce and that listeners can comprehend.  When someone claims personal injury at your hands, you are "required" to apologize or launch into a tiresome defense of how it wasn't your fault but his.............

George Burns and Gracie Allen made a living by violating those kinds of grammatical (usually semantic) restrictions.  George, the straight man, would ask a "straight" question, and Gracie would interpret it in the most odd ball way.   What I keep yammering about (to very little effect) is the tendency to view someone else's violation of your/any sapient entity's sense of rightness or the fittingness of things as personal injury.  Mea maxima culpa.

We have lots of ingrained patterns with presumed evolutionary advantages hard wired into our wet ware.  Our expectation of the world is that it makes sense.  We treat physics and metaphor in much the same way.  Science fiction, just like George and Gracie, plays with the boundaries of reality.  Darko Suvin has that wonderful line where he says SF  is often pigeon-holed as non-realist.  He says, "I would not object but would heartily welcome such labels if one had first defined what is 'real' and what is 'reality.'"  Broderick describes the sensation of the ungrammaticality of Another Earth as "screaming in pain."  Which reminds me a lot of the naive social construction/ivists in my former English department:  Alan Sokal's take down of their whole enterprise was experienced by me as a huge RELIEF ... a thank god it's over kind of relief ...........  I consider it a personal rhetorical/social failure that I was completely unable to penetrate their hermetically sealed ignorance of the empirical world ........

..... And then I stayed up and watched ANOTHER EARTH!

I agree with Sir Pawel that it is visually arresting, even charming in spots.  What isn't visually arresting is done in facial close ups.  One thinks of chimpanzees and especially bonobos entranced by afternoon soap operas, sitting face to face trying to make sense of their human cousins....

The ka-ching (eureka) moment for me was when I realized what this movie was: if a gifted English major of the "theory" set deigned to turn "his" attention to science fiction, this film would be the result.  They complained about the "tendency" of SF writers to fail to focus on the close ups in a way that would be appealing to a bonobo, never realizing that their own failure to pay attention to the background could be lethal.  Putting the mass of Earth 2 next door to Earth 1! and never considering the consequences ... (I mean the WRITERS, not the characters!  jeez, get a grip.) .........  The physical world is nothing but a metaphor, a metaphor that either kicks back or that urges you to face your inner self.

This post is too long and disorganized, but I submit to that the fate of planet Earth is at stake in how "we" (the whole species) learn to deal with the ignorance of others.  Try reading Paul Krugman for a few days in a row.  Look at our politicians and their imaginary alternative planet floating in space next door.  It's all about who wins, not the fate of the planet.

And what was with that Indian janitor guy?  He blinded and deafened himself to the external world, but could still communicate through touch!  Oh my.

V. Allen













________________________________________
From: Pawel Frelik [pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:35 PM
To: Allen, Virginia [ENGL]
Cc: SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")

AVE> The post below was written before Pawel Frelik's good-enough
AVE> recovery in her next two posts.  I've  only skimmed them so far,
AVE> but like the feel of it.

apart from two objections to your presentation of the exchange, which I
include below, I would like to note that Pawel Frelik is a "he." He is
not  famous  in  any  way, but a simple Google search will demonstrate
this.:)

AVE> Read the next sentence: ?Why exactly do you think it is
AVE> ?incredibly   stupid??? Since DB has gone on already at some
AVE> length about the movie, the reader has a right to be confused.

He  did, but - at least to my mind - none of the things included there
demonstrated  the film to be "incredibly stupid" - hence the question.


AVE> To respond to her, Damien is required to apologize for his,
AVE> presumed, attack on her sensibilities.
AVE> It's THIS rhetorical trick that I object to.

this  was not a rhetorical trick, Damien was not required to apologize
for  anything,  and  he, rightfully, did not.

Best,

Pawel


From carmien at mac.com  Thu Jan 19 12:31:57 2012
From: carmien at mac.com (Ed Carmien)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:31:57 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Hive Mind Story Search
Message-ID: <FB210FBA-D3B6-4B70-8FAF-36FD2252F1D5@mac.com>

Former student asks after a story she thinks is named "White." It features a house, a blinding blizzard, some kind of bloodthirsty creatures. Perhaps in an anthology 10+ years back. My search efforts didn't reveal anything. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any who join the search,

ejc
Ed Carmien
carmien at mac.com




From aevans2 at tds.net  Thu Jan 19 13:59:20 2012
From: aevans2 at tds.net (aevans2 tds.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:59:20 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Hive Mind Story Search
In-Reply-To: <FB210FBA-D3B6-4B70-8FAF-36FD2252F1D5@mac.com>
References: <FB210FBA-D3B6-4B70-8FAF-36FD2252F1D5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CACmf7pJFNXfBnvVK2MaaxSXV03kpgM62d7upYcn7g+zuhobtoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ed,

Sounds a little bit like Carol Emshwiller's "Creature" (although it's not
really "bloodthirsty").

Best,
Art


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Ed Carmien <carmien at mac.com> wrote:

> Former student asks after a story she thinks is named "White." It features
> a house, a blinding blizzard, some kind of bloodthirsty creatures. Perhaps
> in an anthology 10+ years back. My search efforts didn't reveal anything.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance for any who join the search,
>
> ejc
> Ed Carmien
> carmien at mac.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
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From thespike at satx.rr.com  Thu Jan 19 14:02:34 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:02:34 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] ANOTHER EARTH (was Re: "Getting it")
In-Reply-To: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E44@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
References: <4F10BCB1.5030409@gmail.com>,
	<4F150104.5020701@gmail.com>	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33B096@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>	<9C5A2163-AEE7-46D4-A6C0-2F2E3D311B8D@ewwpi.com>	<4F160334.6010904@satx.rr.com>,
	<5010365328.20120117230142@umcs.edu.pl>	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E41@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<1205715399.20120118183549@umcs.edu.pl>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E44@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <4F1868CA.7050000@satx.rr.com>

On 1/19/2012 11:44 AM, Allen, Virginia [ENGL] wrote:

>On the question of what is "required" of Damien Broderick, please allow 
me to clarify that as well.  The "obligation" I spoke of was 
rhetorical/grammatical.  ... When someone claims personal injury at your 
hands, you are "required" to apologize or launch into a tiresome defense 
of how it wasn't your fault but his... <

I appreciate Virginia's defense, but I should briefly defend Pawel's 
original comment in turn. I think it has been somewhat misconstrued.

I wrote at the outset:

<it seems likely to me that hardly anyone with well-trained sf 
sensibilities will be able to watch this incredibly stupid movie 
(ANOTHER EARTH ) without screaming repeatedly in pain.>

Pawel replied, in effect, that he--an sf critic and theorist--was not 
affected in this way:

<I personally liked how it flows visually - whatever this makes me or my 
sf sensibilities.>

That seemed to me a fair and even illuminating response to my somewhat 
hyperbolic statement. Yes, there *are* in fact some people "with 
well-trained sf sensibilities" who are not distressed by what I claimed 
are stupid evasions of real-world consequences in the mise en scene.

I find Virginia's pomo bonobos quite entertaining as an analogy. I can 
also report that my wife, trained in mathematics, architecture, law, 
decision theory, and business management, and a novelist, could barely 
force herself to watch the film all the way through, and complained 
bitterly at the internal inconsistencies and physical absurdities of the 
plot. It's not just pre-post-post literary fogies who feel this way. :)

Damien Broderick



From jgunn at ku.edu  Thu Jan 19 16:17:51 2012
From: jgunn at ku.edu (Gunn, James E)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:17:51 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] =?windows-1252?q?FW=3A_Give_Away_Someone_Else=92s_Book_o?=
	=?windows-1252?q?n_World_Book_Night?=
In-Reply-To: <3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sbljow.ow.1327004917@bronto.com>
References: <3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sbljow.ow.1327004917@bronto.com>
Message-ID: <3125014D1A4A7C4391EC2803965DBA776D567E79@EXCH10-MBX-03.home.ku.edu>

Among the thirty listed books, two are by SF authors: Octavia Butler's KINDRED and Scott Card's ENDER'S GAME.  Jim

________________________________
From: staff=authorsguild.org at reply.bronto.com [staff=authorsguild.org at reply.bronto.com] on behalf of The Authors Guild [staff at authorsguild.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:28 PM
To: Gunn, James E
Subject: Give Away Someone Else?s Book on World Book Night

World Book Night, a British experiment in giving away royalty-free new books to strangers, is coming to the US, and we?re on board. Here?s the background.

On every first Thursday in March since 1998, the UK has celebrated World Book Day by giving several million British schoolchildren ?1 tokens they can use to purchase any book at a bookseller. UK publishers produce special ?1 World Book Day editions of select books, and booksellers, schools, and libraries host hundreds of author visits, story times, and dress parties to celebrate the day. By all accounts, World Book Day has become quite successful in bringing books to children and families to bookstores.

A couple years ago, Jamie Byng, managing director of British publisher Canongate, had the thought that the festivities shouldn?t be limited to schoolchildren, that adults who rarely read books could also use some encouragement. He founded World Book Night, an event in which volunteers, including book authors, would give away one million special-edition paperbacks to strangers at train stations, hospitals, prisons and other sites. Margaret Atwood, Alan Bennett, John Le Carr?, and Philip Pullman, and other authors kicked off the first World Book Night last year<http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=44s5s5bsr12e8q3l4xdwj4agm0vpa&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ> by reading from their favorite books to thousands of people gathered in Trafalgar Square on a chilly March evening.

British media covered World Book Night extensively, and, defying the expectations of some, the publishers and authors of the books given away fared well: book sales rose substantially for nearly all the 25 titles that were handed out.

On April 23rd, World Book Night comes to the US, with much of the publishing industry behind the effort, including major publishers, Ingram, the American Booksellers Association, Barnes & Noble, and the American Library Association. A committee of booksellers and librarians selected the 30 books that are being printed in special World Book Night editions. (Please note, the Authors Guild took no role in selecting the titles.)

Want to volunteer to be a book giver? Choose one of the 30 books (list here<http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=f0wmw3jx9lb4hz55z54nytc1ttjpu&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>) that you particularly enjoyed, choose a place to give away the book, and apply at the World Book Night website<http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=3qyxnpmfisu8xt53ro7ixra9mnkea&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>. There?s nothing in it for you, except for the satisfaction of introducing others to a favorite book, and perhaps the glory of a local newspaper or radio story. You?ll likely increase your odds for being chosen if you mention that you?re an author and you choose a distribution site calculated to reach those who rarely read books.

Carl Lennertz, formerly of Random, Harper, Little Brown, and Book Sense, is the executive director of World Book Night US. He?ll be reviewing all applications and pledges to be on the lookout for authors.

The application deadline is February 1st.

Volunteer application<http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=has9ijw6i0t2kt82z26h27vlspqux&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>

World Book Night website<http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=al32tsgrdcz5d9x1867g1rizzham6&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>

--------------------------------
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From gwolfe at roosevelt.edu  Thu Jan 19 18:52:07 2012
From: gwolfe at roosevelt.edu (Gary Wolfe)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:52:07 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Hive Mind Story Search
In-Reply-To: <FB210FBA-D3B6-4B70-8FAF-36FD2252F1D5@mac.com>
References: <FB210FBA-D3B6-4B70-8FAF-36FD2252F1D5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A20AA61B3ACFF64F9F03981C6DCF5B04096B60548A@RUMAIL.roosevelt.edu>

Very probably it's Tim Lebbon's story "White," in his collection White And Other Tales of Ruin (Night Shade, 2002).  It won a British Fantasy Award at the time.

Gary
________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Carmien [carmien at mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:31 AM
To: SFRA list
Subject: [SFRA-L] Hive Mind Story Search

Former student asks after a story she thinks is named "White." It features a house, a blinding blizzard, some kind of bloodthirsty creatures. Perhaps in an anthology 10+ years back. My search efforts didn't reveal anything.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any who join the search,

ejc
Ed Carmien
carmien at mac.com



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From ptvoermans at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 21:17:30 2012
From: ptvoermans at gmail.com (Paul Voermans)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:17:30 +1100
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
Message-ID: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>

Call me a primate but I've seen AE and it seemed to make sense to me
in a way that most other sf movies don't. I've never watched a skiffy
movie (or any movie come to that) which didn't contradict what was
known to be known in some way significant to literal-minded people at
the same time as being psychologically unbelievable to everybody else.
I guess I'm just too ignorant to be bothered by either. Funny, the
Gerry and Sylvia Anderson movie from the sixties bothered me at the
time but perhaps this tapped into guilt I don't yet have but dread.

I watched it because I heard the film makers and about the film makers
and they sounded like they were having a go. Everybody is qualified in
skiffy these days, like it or not.

This is a film about someone who doesn't speak the truth to someone
else. This, like the presence of a foolish planet at unfeasible
distances, would normally annoy me, but the relationship worked.

This first movie ought to lead to another. I'll watch it.


On 19 January 2012 13:35, Pawel Frelik <pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl> wrote:
> AVE> The post below was written before Pawel Frelik's good-enough
> AVE> recovery in her next two posts. ?I've ?only skimmed them so far,
> AVE> but like the feel of it.
>
> apart from two objections to your presentation of the exchange, which I
> include below, I would like to note that Pawel Frelik is a "he." He is
> not ?famous ?in ?any ?way, but a simple Google search will demonstrate
> this.:)
>
> AVE> Read the next sentence: ?Why exactly do you think it is
> AVE> ?incredibly?? stupid????Since DB has gone on already at some
> AVE> length about the movie, the reader has a right to be confused.
>
> He ?did, but - at least to my mind - none of the things included there
> demonstrated ?the film to be "incredibly stupid" - hence the question.
>
>
> AVE> To respond to her, Damien is required to apologize for his,
> AVE> presumed, attack on her sensibilities.
> AVE> It's THIS rhetorical trick that I object to.
>
> this ?was not a rhetorical trick, Damien was not required to apologize
> for ?anything, ?and ?he, rightfully, did not.
>
> Best,
>
> Pawel
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From nolan.belk at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 10:00:53 2012
From: nolan.belk at gmail.com (Nolan Belk)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:00:53 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?windows-1252?q?FW=3A_Give_Away_Someone_Else=92s_Book_o?=
	=?windows-1252?q?n_World_Book_Night?=
In-Reply-To: <3125014D1A4A7C4391EC2803965DBA776D567E79@EXCH10-MBX-03.home.ku.edu>
References: <3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sbljow.ow.1327004917@bronto.com>
	<3125014D1A4A7C4391EC2803965DBA776D567E79@EXCH10-MBX-03.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <CAM748uqr+E+sAutrYAxma2x46Fsm4OZWYU8i_T3FSCJObvR_Kg@mail.gmail.com>

And don't forget THE HUNGER GAMES -- the kick off to one of the more
popular SF series in a long time.

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Gunn, James E <jgunn at ku.edu> wrote:

> Among the thirty listed books, two are by SF authors: Octavia Butler's
> KINDRED and Scott Card's ENDER'S GAME.  Jim
>
> ________________________________
> From: staff=authorsguild.org at reply.bronto.com [staff=
> authorsguild.org at reply.bronto.com] on behalf of The Authors Guild [
> staff at authorsguild.org]
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:28 PM
> To: Gunn, James E
> Subject: Give Away Someone Else?s Book on World Book Night
>
> World Book Night, a British experiment in giving away royalty-free new
> books to strangers, is coming to the US, and we?re on board. Here?s the
> background.
>
> On every first Thursday in March since 1998, the UK has celebrated World
> Book Day by giving several million British schoolchildren ?1 tokens they
> can use to purchase any book at a bookseller. UK publishers produce special
> ?1 World Book Day editions of select books, and booksellers, schools, and
> libraries host hundreds of author visits, story times, and dress parties to
> celebrate the day. By all accounts, World Book Day has become quite
> successful in bringing books to children and families to bookstores.
>
> A couple years ago, Jamie Byng, managing director of British publisher
> Canongate, had the thought that the festivities shouldn?t be limited to
> schoolchildren, that adults who rarely read books could also use some
> encouragement. He founded World Book Night, an event in which volunteers,
> including book authors, would give away one million special-edition
> paperbacks to strangers at train stations, hospitals, prisons and other
> sites. Margaret Atwood, Alan Bennett, John Le Carr?, and Philip Pullman,
> and other authors kicked off the first World Book Night last year<
> http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=44s5s5bsr12e8q3l4xdwj4agm0vpa&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>
> by reading from their favorite books to thousands of people gathered in
> Trafalgar Square on a chilly March evening.
>
> British media covered World Book Night extensively, and, defying the
> expectations of some, the publishers and authors of the books given away
> fared well: book sales rose substantially for nearly all the 25 titles that
> were handed out.
>
> On April 23rd, World Book Night comes to the US, with much of the
> publishing industry behind the effort, including major publishers, Ingram,
> the American Booksellers Association, Barnes & Noble, and the American
> Library Association. A committee of booksellers and librarians selected the
> 30 books that are being printed in special World Book Night editions.
> (Please note, the Authors Guild took no role in selecting the titles.)
>
> Want to volunteer to be a book giver? Choose one of the 30 books (list
> here<
> http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=f0wmw3jx9lb4hz55z54nytc1ttjpu&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>)
> that you particularly enjoyed, choose a place to give away the book, and
> apply at the World Book Night website<
> http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=896&id=3lccclhcgbtoo2zumppi8g035sblj&id2=3qyxnpmfisu8xt53ro7ixra9mnkea&subscriber_id=bbblbcdaepqzrnekbjomtnmouykqbbn&delivery_id=bwrhppytxksmmsairbgulmpztjxabfn&tid=3.A4A.b-Zt.Fdmi.hpQC..7-Ir.b..l.BEtx.a.TxjDRQ.TxjDRQ.SKsOiQ>.
> There?s nothing in it for you, except for the satisfaction of introducing
> others to a favorite book, and perhaps the glory of a local newspaper or
> radio story. You?ll likely increase your odds for being chosen if you
> mention that you?re an author and you choose a distribution site calculated
> to reach those who rarely read books.
>
> Carl Lennertz, formerly of Random, Harper, Little Brown, and Book Sense,
> is the executive director of World Book Night US. He?ll be reviewing all
> applications and pledges to be on the lookout for authors.
>
> The application deadline is February 1st.
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-- 
Nolan Belk

"Since my house burned down,
I now own a better view
Of the rising moon"

"once we begin to feel deeply all the aspects of our lives, we begin to
demand from ourselves and from our life-pursuits that they feel in
accordance with that joy which we know ourselves to be capable of. Our
erotic knowledge empowers us, becomes a lens through which we scrutinize
all aspects of our existence, forcing us to evaluate those aspects honestly
in terms of their relative meaning within our lives. And this is a grave
responsibility, projected from within each of us, not to settle for the
convenient, the shoddy, the conventionally expected, nor the merely safe."

"Don't trust your head, Samwise, it is not the best part of you."
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From thespike at satx.rr.com  Fri Jan 20 15:19:42 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:19:42 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F19CC5E.1050708@satx.rr.com>

On 1/19/2012 8:17 PM, Paul Voermans wrote:

> This is a film about someone who doesn't speak the truth to someone
> else. This, like the presence of a foolish planet at unfeasible
> distances, would normally annoy me, but the relationship worked.

Okay. Read it through the Chirico-inflected Metaphysical art of Paul 
Delvaux, say (rather than Dali), and that might do the trick.

<http://giedreblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/paul-delvaux.html>

Damien Broderick


From vallen at iastate.edu  Fri Jan 20 17:03:17 2012
From: vallen at iastate.edu (Allen, Virginia [ENGL])
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:03:17 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>

I'm trying out this interesting convention for identifying pieces of text to respond to, using Paul Voermans's remarks as toy? practice set? spring board? work?
Over on the Ultraphyte blog there's a video of a crow sledding on something: maybe a lid to a jar with food left on it, maybe just a convenient sled.  The question is posed "Do animals evolve to play?"  

pv> I watched it because I heard the film makers and about the film makers
and they sounded like they were having a go. Everybody is qualified in
skiffy these days, like it or not.>>

Or unqualified.  William James famously referred to the blooming, buzzing confusion of sense data.  We can't process it all.  The ability/fault of screening out extraneous (to whom? you ask) information enables us to deal more effectively with part of the information, that which we concentrate on; but what we screen out may provide the vital clue we're missing, needed to solve a large problem.

pv> This is a film about someone who doesn't speak the truth to someone
else. This, like the presence of a foolish planet at unfeasible
distances, would normally annoy me, but the relationship worked.>>

Rhoda tries to speak the truth.  She rehearses it, but he (name??) cuts her off.  The rhetorical boundaries -- the "requirement" of an object for a transitive verb, like the required elements in a "Knock, knock."  "Who's there?" sequence.  Once that door is (1) shut in her face (she goes from door to door around the house)/ (2) the opportunity to speak is brushed aside ("Come in, come."  He wants to show her the  saw.)  Finally, (3) she gives him her ticket to the shuttle.  

pv>This first movie ought to lead to another. I'll watch it.

I agree.  It should start on Earth 2 and provide some rubber science that explains what's happening ... why they keep radio silence until they're in orbit ... why there's nary a  tsunami on Earth 1 ....
oh, and the counterpart of the janitor on Earth 1 will be the guy responsible for the mechanics of the whole moving planets thing, and Rhoda's counterpart will be his brilliant assistant in training ... and like the two of them and their evil meddling with science will be responsible for massive numbers of naive, negligent, reckless deaths on Earth 2.  And, like Rick Santorum will be President  of the United States of Earths 1&2 ....  The film will open with his assertion that scientists are immoral and need to be regulated.........  And religious cult like characters will be everywhere on Earth 2.....

You guys go ahead without me.  I've got to call my agent.  Oh, wait.  I don't have an agent.  That was my Earth 2 counterpart who could've been a contender.

Now I know the genre!  What do they call the Skiffy channel now?  This is a perfect Saturday evening movie for them.

Joan Slonczewski posed the serious question/game to play/casual speculation of whether the Sharers (human) could produce a language without direct objects.  I've been stewing about it for years and years.  I want to say NO, no, of course not......... and yet, I keep pecking at it like the crow on the roof with the lid.

Then China Mieville poses the question of whether a lighthouse is a  warning -- stay away, there be dangers here .... or a welcome -- stop here, have a pint by the fire, let your long voyage be over ...... and has an alien species invent the capacity for metaphor......

V. Allen





From rob.latham at ucr.edu  Sat Jan 21 01:37:03 2012
From: rob.latham at ucr.edu (Rob Latham)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:37:03 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] SF/F Translation Awards fund-raiser
Message-ID: <4932E105-9052-4894-B8FA-211D9A7B2D22@ucr.edu>

The Science Fiction and Fantasy Translation Awards are holding a fund- 
raising drive to raise money for prizes for the winners of the 2011  
awards. The awards, which are for new translations of SF/F into  
English, are given in two categories: short-form and long-form. Prizes  
are presented to both the translator and the author. The awards are  
sponsored by the Association for the Recognition of Excellence in  
Science Fiction and Fantasy Translation, a non-profit organization.

Information about the drive, with a Paypal link to donate, can be  
found here:

http://www.sfftawards.org/?p=494



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From rob.latham at ucr.edu  Sat Jan 21 03:27:55 2012
From: rob.latham at ucr.edu (Rob Latham)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 00:27:55 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] CFP: 19th Annual (Dis)junctions Conference at UC-Riverside
Message-ID: <4D6723F8-6AEE-478D-A4A9-F20129B2AAF7@ucr.edu>

Narratives Mediated: (dis)junctions 2012

19th annual graduate student conference

University of California, Riverside

April 13-14th, 2012



Keynote Speaker: Dr. Leo Braudy, University of Southern California



Abstracts due: February 17th, 2012

Email: disjunctions2012 at gmail.com


For this year?s (dis)junctions conference, we are seeking papers that  
explore the construction and definition of ?narrative? in all its  
mediated and mediating forms. The word narrative is typically  
associated with storytelling and plot, but for this year?s conference  
we want to understand ?narrative? as any instance of producing meaning  
or ?truth.? In this regard, a piece of literary criticism, while often  
explicating a literary narrative, is a type of narrative in itself.  
Further, in an attempt to be at once inclusive and provocative, we  
want to think about the way disciplines across the academy each work  
to construct particular narratives. History, for instance, seeks to  
understand the past through contending narratives; the Sciences  
constantly revises dominant narratives of the physical world; and even  
music, while not verbal, still has a trace of narrative in its  
composition, framed by a beginning and end. To what extent do  
narratives (in a broad sense of the term) reflect, challenge, or  
create a sense of both oneself and one?s world? Does the medium act as  
a link between the reader/viewer/listener and the ?real,? or does the  
medium come to define the real? How do different academic discourses  
mediate and create new ontological narratives? Papers may address  
topics such as, but not limited to: identity, the nation, race  
relations, ethnic rhetorics, gender, sexuality, materiality,  
neoliberalism, pedagogy, postcolonial theory and narratives,  
autobiographies, landscapes, narrative genres (of Trans-Atlantic,  
North-South relation, Medieval, Romantic, Modern, Post-Modern, travel,  
war, visual, video games?to name a few), technology, narratology,  
popular media/new media, the university as the public production of  
knowledge, and other academic criticism/theory not mentioned above as  
narrative.

In keeping with previous years, (dis)junctions 2012 welcomes papers  
from all disciplines inside and outside of the Humanities.  
Participants may submit to a specific panel or in response to the  
general call for papers. Traditional genre and period-related papers,  
as well as creative writing, spoken word, dance pieces, films,  
installation artwork, and other forms of media are highly encouraged.  
Please visit our website at http://disjunctions2012.wordpress.com for  
additional panel-specific Calls For Papers as they become available.  
Abstracts (250-300 words) may be emailed to  
disjunctions2012 at gmail.com. Please note any A/V needs you may have at  
that time.  We can obtain VCRs, DVDs, and projectors for laptops. Less  
standard equipment is possible (although not guaranteed) upon request.



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From pv at rumspringe.org.au  Sat Jan 21 23:56:41 2012
From: pv at rumspringe.org.au (Paul Voermans)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:56:41 +1100
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>

If it's a matter of Jamsean sensory overload for the non-initiates,
does that make aficionados the equivalent of the blind, who have less
problems with that? No, so many of us actively like science fiction
even if we don't care about the labels or history of it, just watch
whatever's on or go for social reasons.

Surrealism is arguably the prime business of skiffy (I like the Ent
wives on that Delvaux blog entry Damien); certainly it's one of my
chiefest pleasures and my small boy's friends, without any attachment
to sf, swim in it. The rationalisations of why or why not a tsunami,
how another earth popped into existence or lurked there all this time
without our noticing like a timid listserv member, while they have a
place in drawing in those less suggestible than fools like me, or
those hungry for non-lucid dreams, are full of their own pleasures,
beautiful absurdities, elegant sleight of hand, earnest attempts to
speculate free of scientific method that scientists themselves so
prize, new words, inversions, and piquant parental fixations that
might or might not have a bearing on the meaning or plot of a science
fiction novel. I've taken a variety of approaches in my work, from a
good go at extrapolation to bending everything to a plot more to do
with other things.

I'm always surprised at those who get so angry when the particular
pleasure of rationalisation is faulty in one element, such as physics,
or simply not the most important thing on the au(thor)teur's agenda.
There is more in it than the waste of the hour or the ticket price.
More than just sarcasm or hyperbole.


All the Best,

Paul

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Sun Jan 22 06:47:58 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:47:58 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] The Bark Side
Message-ID: <W3285028535279431327232878@webmail15>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ntDYjS0Y3w

--J.J.


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From n.easterbrook at tcu.edu  Sun Jan 22 12:21:04 2012
From: n.easterbrook at tcu.edu (Easterbrook, Neil)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:21:04 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] the bark side
Message-ID: <E7642732E5FEDA4EAFBB9213012893010106E000F490@FSMAILCL2.tcu.edu>

JJ--

Best laff I've had in a long time. Thanks.

--Neil
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From curtissi at Grinnell.EDU  Sun Jan 22 14:31:23 2012
From: curtissi at Grinnell.EDU (Curtis, Silvio L)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:31:23 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>

I'm one of the ones that tends to get angry when an apparently science-fiction book or film turns out to be surreal. For me, the motivation is that I feel (maybe unfairly) as if I've been tricked, as if I've not just had my time wasted but had it wasted deliberately.

Silvio

________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] on behalf of Paul Voermans [pv at rumspringe.org.au]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:56 PM
To: SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go

If it's a matter of Jamsean sensory overload for the non-initiates,
does that make aficionados the equivalent of the blind, who have less
problems with that? No, so many of us actively like science fiction
even if we don't care about the labels or history of it, just watch
whatever's on or go for social reasons.

Surrealism is arguably the prime business of skiffy (I like the Ent
wives on that Delvaux blog entry Damien); certainly it's one of my
chiefest pleasures and my small boy's friends, without any attachment
to sf, swim in it. The rationalisations of why or why not a tsunami,
how another earth popped into existence or lurked there all this time
without our noticing like a timid listserv member, while they have a
place in drawing in those less suggestible than fools like me, or
those hungry for non-lucid dreams, are full of their own pleasures,
beautiful absurdities, elegant sleight of hand, earnest attempts to
speculate free of scientific method that scientists themselves so
prize, new words, inversions, and piquant parental fixations that
might or might not have a bearing on the meaning or plot of a science
fiction novel. I've taken a variety of approaches in my work, from a
good go at extrapolation to bending everything to a plot more to do
with other things.

I'm always surprised at those who get so angry when the particular
pleasure of rationalisation is faulty in one element, such as physics,
or simply not the most important thing on the au(thor)teur's agenda.
There is more in it than the waste of the hour or the ticket price.
More than just sarcasm or hyperbole.


All the Best,

Paul
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Sun Jan 22 15:47:13 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:47:13 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
Message-ID: <931996362.20120122124713@umcs.edu.pl>

CSL> I'm one of the ones that tends to get angry when an apparently
CSL> science-fiction book or film turns out to be surreal. For me, the
CSL> motivation is that I feel (maybe unfairly) as if I've been
CSL> tricked, as if I've not just had my time wasted but had it wasted deliberately.

fair  point  except  the  key  word here is "apparently." If a book is
marketed  as genre science fiction AND turns out to be non-orthodox in
its presentation of, say, science, then   your   anger  is,  in  some ways,
justified or at least understandable. Genre conventions and protocols are
not legally binding but there  is, of course, a  long  tradition of common
narrative practices in certain interpretative communities. Then again,
even such traditions evolve and change over time.

If  it  is  not  marketed   as  genre  SF or it does not promise to be
another  hard  SF or cyberpunk offering,  then  your disappointment or
anger is  your  own "fault." On  the  basis  of  the  fact  that it is
non-mimetic, non-mundane, or posits  some  difference from the world
as we know it, you have formed YOUR  OWN  expectation  that  it is
going to be like these other books you know and like.

I  think  the  key  problem in such cases is that so many people still
expect SF to be more or less what its main stream (note that I did not
mean "mainstream") was 50 or 40 years ago. In the last few decades our
definitions of science fiction have expanded enormously - whether this
is  for  better or for worse is immaterial in this discussion. We need
to  remember that the term means so much more than it did decades ago
and  - if you really want to know what the book is like before committing to
reading  it  -  to be  more  attuned to its contexts: magazines that the
author  published in, the press that has published the book, and so on
and so forth.

And sure, you can rage against the undisciplined use of the term "science
fiction"   except   that   it   is   not  very productive  and  it will not
prevent extensive  interpretative  communities,  including  many scholarly
and academic, from using the name for books you would not call SF.

Pawel




From pv at rumspringe.org.au  Sun Jan 22 18:46:45 2012
From: pv at rumspringe.org.au (Paul Voermans)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:46:45 +1100
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <931996362.20120122124713@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <931996362.20120122124713@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <CAB8y9vSUMNs83fpgzqp8-865M8nDkV+Si6gt2FqYPwU_qobw9g@mail.gmail.com>

One thing that keeps coming back to me is In Treatment, and shows like
it, on TV. Is this science fiction? Nothing fantastical except the
lack of unfortunate body hair on the psychiatrist.

When placed in such a mundane context, those of us who have
experienced treatment may object strenuously to its portrayal. One
person I asked has said that the main difference is that the patient
problems are more interesting than what they must be in real life, to
a psychiatrist.

"I've done it and it's not like that at all!"

Some films provoke that kind of response just because they're
pretentious, I guess. In Treatment seemed relatively humble, to me.


All the Best,

Paul

From pawel.frelik at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 15:46:52 2012
From: pawel.frelik at gmail.com (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:46:52 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
Message-ID: <668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>

CSL> I'm one of the ones that tends to get angry when an apparently
CSL> science-fiction book or film turns out to be surreal. For me, the
CSL> motivation is that I feel (maybe unfairly) as if I've been
CSL> tricked, as if I've not just had my time wasted but had it wasted deliberately.

fair  point  except  the  key  word here is "apparently." If a book is
marketed  as genre science fiction AND turns out to be non-orthodox in
its presentation of, say, science, then   your   anger  is,  in  some ways,
justified or at least understandable. Genre conventions and protocols are
not legally binding but there  is, of course, a  long  tradition of common
narrative practices in certain interpretative communities. Then again,
even such traditions evolve and change over time.

If  it  is  not  marketed   as  genre  SF or it does not promise to be
another  hard  SF or cyberpunk offering,  then  your disappointment or
anger is  your  own "fault." On  the  basis  of  the  fact  that it is
non-mimetic, non-mundane, or posits  some  difference from the world
as we know it, you have formed YOUR  OWN  expectation  that  it is
going to be like these other books you know and like.

I  think  the  key  problem in such cases is that so many people still
expect SF to be more or less what its main stream (note that I did not
mean "mainstream") was 50 or 40 years ago. In the last few decades our
definitions of science fiction have expanded enormously - whether this
is  for  better or for worse is immaterial in this discussion. We need
to  remember that the term means so much more than it did decades ago
and  - if you really want to know what the book is like before committing to
reading  it  -  to be  more  attuned to its contexts: magazines that the
author  published in, the press that has published the book, and so on
and so forth.

And sure, you can rage against the undisciplined use of the term "science
fiction"   except   that   it   is   not  very productive  and  it will not
prevent extensive  interpretative  communities,  including  many scholarly
and academic, from using the name for books you would not call SF.

Pawel




From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Mon Jan 23 09:01:08 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:01:08 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>

But couldn't one argue that a movie that shows another planet  
appearing in our skies is, in effect, advertising itself as sf? As  
opposed to, say, a scenario in which the doppelgangers are from such  
fuzzy fantasy other dimension?

--J.J.P.


On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Pawel Frelik wrote:

> CSL> I'm one of the ones that tends to get angry when an apparently
> CSL> science-fiction book or film turns out to be surreal. For me, the
> CSL> motivation is that I feel (maybe unfairly) as if I've been
> CSL> tricked, as if I've not just had my time wasted but had it  
> wasted deliberately.
>
> fair  point  except  the  key  word here is "apparently." If a book is
> marketed  as genre science fiction AND turns out to be non-orthodox in
> its presentation of, say, science, then   your   anger  is,  in   
> some ways,
> justified or at least understandable. Genre conventions and  
> protocols are
> not legally binding but there  is, of course, a  long  tradition of  
> common
> narrative practices in certain interpretative communities. Then again,
> even such traditions evolve and change over time.
>
> If  it  is  not  marketed   as  genre  SF or it does not promise to be
> another  hard  SF or cyberpunk offering,  then  your disappointment or
> anger is  your  own "fault." On  the  basis  of  the  fact  that it is
> non-mimetic, non-mundane, or posits  some  difference from the world
> as we know it, you have formed YOUR  OWN  expectation  that  it is
> going to be like these other books you know and like.
>
> I  think  the  key  problem in such cases is that so many people still
> expect SF to be more or less what its main stream (note that I did not
> mean "mainstream") was 50 or 40 years ago. In the last few decades our
> definitions of science fiction have expanded enormously - whether this
> is  for  better or for worse is immaterial in this discussion. We need
> to  remember that the term means so much more than it did decades ago
> and  - if you really want to know what the book is like before  
> committing to
> reading  it  -  to be  more  attuned to its contexts: magazines  
> that the
> author  published in, the press that has published the book, and so on
> and so forth.
>
> And sure, you can rage against the undisciplined use of the term  
> "science
> fiction"   except   that   it   is   not  very productive  and  it  
> will not
> prevent extensive  interpretative  communities,  including  many  
> scholarly
> and academic, from using the name for books you would not call SF.
>
> Pawel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>


From gregconley at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 09:09:00 2012
From: gregconley at gmail.com (Greg Conley)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:09:00 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>
	<64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
Message-ID: <5B7CE68A-849F-47EC-879A-3AB9D76F76C1@gmail.com>

If I recall correctly, even though Visions of Escaflowne had other planets in the sky, mechanized battle armor, and the like, it's always been regarded strictly as fantasy. Also, some people don't regard Star Wars as science fiction, and it markets itself as such and has space ships and laser guns. 

On Jan 23, 2012, at 8:01 AM, John Pierce <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com> wrote:

> But couldn't one argue that a movie that shows another planet appearing in our skies is, in effect, advertising itself as sf? As opposed to, say, a scenario in which the doppelgangers are from such fuzzy fantasy other dimension?
> 
> --J.J.P.
> 
> 
> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Pawel Frelik wrote:
> 
>> CSL> I'm one of the ones that tends to get angry when an apparently
>> CSL> science-fiction book or film turns out to be surreal. For me, the
>> CSL> motivation is that I feel (maybe unfairly) as if I've been
>> CSL> tricked, as if I've not just had my time wasted but had it wasted deliberately.
>> 
>> fair  point  except  the  key  word here is "apparently." If a book is
>> marketed  as genre science fiction AND turns out to be non-orthodox in
>> its presentation of, say, science, then   your   anger  is,  in  some ways,
>> justified or at least understandable. Genre conventions and protocols are
>> not legally binding but there  is, of course, a  long  tradition of common
>> narrative practices in certain interpretative communities. Then again,
>> even such traditions evolve and change over time.
>> 
>> If  it  is  not  marketed   as  genre  SF or it does not promise to be
>> another  hard  SF or cyberpunk offering,  then  your disappointment or
>> anger is  your  own "fault." On  the  basis  of  the  fact  that it is
>> non-mimetic, non-mundane, or posits  some  difference from the world
>> as we know it, you have formed YOUR  OWN  expectation  that  it is
>> going to be like these other books you know and like.
>> 
>> I  think  the  key  problem in such cases is that so many people still
>> expect SF to be more or less what its main stream (note that I did not
>> mean "mainstream") was 50 or 40 years ago. In the last few decades our
>> definitions of science fiction have expanded enormously - whether this
>> is  for  better or for worse is immaterial in this discussion. We need
>> to  remember that the term means so much more than it did decades ago
>> and  - if you really want to know what the book is like before committing to
>> reading  it  -  to be  more  attuned to its contexts: magazines that the
>> author  published in, the press that has published the book, and so on
>> and so forth.
>> 
>> And sure, you can rage against the undisciplined use of the term "science
>> fiction"   except   that   it   is   not  very productive  and  it will not
>> prevent extensive  interpretative  communities,  including  many scholarly
>> and academic, from using the name for books you would not call SF.
>> 
>> Pawel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From pawel.frelik at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 12:11:56 2012
From: pawel.frelik at gmail.com (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:11:56 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>,
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>
	<64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
Message-ID: <475140412.20120123091156@gmail.com>

JP> But couldn't one argue that a movie that shows another planet
JP> appearing in our skies is, in effect, advertising itself as sf? As  
JP> opposed to, say, a scenario in which the doppelgangers are from such  
JP> fuzzy fantasy other dimension?

once   certainly   could   and  I  think  many people  would - I would
myself. But it advertises itself as SF understood   in  this  new,
broad  sense,  rather than a narrow sense oriented  towards
scientific credibility (which is still, of course, also a valid definition
among many). Whether one calls it slipstream, mainstream SF,
non-genre  SF,  or  any  other  name does not probably matter.


Pawel




From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Mon Jan 23 12:56:26 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:56:26 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
Message-ID: <455900261.20120123095626@umcs.edu.pl>

JP> But couldn't one argue that a movie that shows another planet
JP> appearing in our skies is, in effect, advertising itself as sf? As  
JP> opposed to, say, a scenario in which the doppelgangers are from such  
JP> fuzzy fantasy other dimension?

once   certainly   could   and  I  think  many people  would - I would
myself. But it advertises itself as SF understood   in  this  new,
broad  sense,  rather than a narrow sense oriented  towards
scientific credibility (which is still, of course, also a valid definition
among many). Whether one calls it slipstream, mainstream SF,
non-genre  SF,  or  any  other  name does not probably matter.


Pawel




From thespike at satx.rr.com  Mon Jan 23 12:59:04 2012
From: thespike at satx.rr.com (Damien Broderick)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:59:04 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <5B7CE68A-849F-47EC-879A-3AB9D76F76C1@gmail.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>	<668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>	<64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
	<5B7CE68A-849F-47EC-879A-3AB9D76F76C1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1D9FE8.7000706@satx.rr.com>

On 1/23/2012 8:09 AM, Greg Conley wrote:

> Also, some people don't regard Star Wars as science fiction, and it markets itself as such and has space ships and laser guns.

What possible reason could anyone have for denying that the SW franchise 
is sf? Surely not just because of "the Force"--which, if regarded as its 
switching point shunting the narrative into fantasy, would also remove 
an enormous amount of core sf from the 1940s through the 1950s, at 
least. (As, strictly speaking, do superluminal travel, time travel to 
the past, accessible alternative worlds, etc.) STAR WARS is derivative, 
rather incoherent, bad sf. But that's a contextual judgment; it would 
have been fresh, goodish sf in the early 1930s.

Damien Broderick

From gregconley at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 13:28:50 2012
From: gregconley at gmail.com (Greg Conley)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:28:50 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <4F1D9FE8.7000706@satx.rr.com>
References: <CAB8y9vSM6PLbKhuBt3rM-kuTYLx_V1ZQsnW9LzA80omo=+XHEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E47@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>
	<CAB8y9vRCVhfk6kUtsNy7t-FJeWF9rKECPn5d2ZVdZBaGjoXn+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<683742EA130185409F417BBF0934FA140A05C9D1@MB1.grinnell.edu>
	<668047082.20120122124652@gmail.com>
	<64002EBF-1E2F-402A-8D1D-38A70FB7A2F2@ewwpi.com>
	<5B7CE68A-849F-47EC-879A-3AB9D76F76C1@gmail.com>
	<4F1D9FE8.7000706@satx.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AD837823-6F37-47E0-986D-9525A0729D4B@gmail.com>

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it's science fiction. But there are people out there, both scholars and otherwise, who, at best, say, "well, sort of." 

And for some it is actually The Force, yeah. I also agree with what you say about that same standard disqualifying a lot of other works, including many that are even considered "hard sf." which is its own kettle of fish, I suppose. 

Greg Conley 

On Jan 23, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Damien Broderick <thespike at satx.rr.com> wrote:

> On 1/23/2012 8:09 AM, Greg Conley wrote:
> 
>> Also, some people don't regard Star Wars as science fiction, and it markets itself as such and has space ships and laser guns.
> 
> What possible reason could anyone have for denying that the SW franchise is sf? Surely not just because of "the Force"--which, if regarded as its switching point shunting the narrative into fantasy, would also remove an enormous amount of core sf from the 1940s through the 1950s, at least. (As, strictly speaking, do superluminal travel, time travel to the past, accessible alternative worlds, etc.) STAR WARS is derivative, rather incoherent, bad sf. But that's a contextual judgment; it would have been fresh, goodish sf in the early 1930s.
> 
> Damien Broderick
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Mon Jan 23 13:39:09 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:39:09 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <455900261.20120123095626@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <455900261.20120123095626@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <194BFB88-1D3A-45F7-8013-C497E1E75A14@ewwpi.com>

I rather doubt that the people who made ANOTHER EARTH had the  
slightest idea of any "new, broad sense" of sf. Most likely they were  
just winging it, like the people who write paranormal romances or New  
Age fiction about magic crystals and the like.

--J.J.P.

On Jan 23, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Pawel Frelik wrote:

> JP> But couldn't one argue that a movie that shows another planet
> JP> appearing in our skies is, in effect, advertising itself as sf? As
> JP> opposed to, say, a scenario in which the doppelgangers are from  
> such
> JP> fuzzy fantasy other dimension?
>
> once   certainly   could   and  I  think  many people  would - I would
> myself. But it advertises itself as SF understood   in  this  new,
> broad  sense,  rather than a narrow sense oriented  towards
> scientific credibility (which is still, of course, also a valid  
> definition
> among many). Whether one calls it slipstream, mainstream SF,
> non-genre  SF,  or  any  other  name does not probably matter.
>
>
> Pawel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>


From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Mon Jan 23 14:23:11 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:23:11 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <194BFB88-1D3A-45F7-8013-C497E1E75A14@ewwpi.com>
References: <455900261.20120123095626@umcs.edu.pl>
	<194BFB88-1D3A-45F7-8013-C497E1E75A14@ewwpi.com>
Message-ID: <426282567.20120123112311@umcs.edu.pl>

JP> I rather doubt that the people who made ANOTHER EARTH had the
JP> slightest idea of any "new, broad sense" of sf. Most likely they were
JP> just winging it, like the people who write paranormal romances or New
JP> Age fiction about magic crystals and the like.

you  may  be  right  but  I  think we have already covered that when I
mentioned  Slipstream. Having no sense of academic theories of SF does
not  prevent  the authors from borrowing from the genre repertoire for
their   own   purposes   (no  matter  how loose and undisciplined that
borrowing is) and  us  from  reading  it  as  non-orthodox  or
non-genre SF.

In  fact,  given  the  channels  the  authors used (Sundance, which is
not  a  regular SF ground - even if it has given us such titles as THE
PRIMER)  seems  to  indicate  that  they were not thinking about it as
following the main stream SF tradition. 

Pawel




From vallen at iastate.edu  Mon Jan 23 15:11:44 2012
From: vallen at iastate.edu (Allen, Virginia [ENGL])
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:11:44 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] pomo bonobo a-go-go
In-Reply-To: <426282567.20120123112311@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <455900261.20120123095626@umcs.edu.pl>
	<194BFB88-1D3A-45F7-8013-C497E1E75A14@ewwpi.com>,
	<426282567.20120123112311@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E4E@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>


JP> I rather doubt that the people who made ANOTHER EARTH had the
JP> slightest idea of any "new, broad sense" of sf. Most likely they were
JP> just winging it, like the people who write paranormal romances or New
JP> Age fiction about magic crystals and the like.

Following a prompt from Paul Voermans, I looked for  some input from the creator/s of ANOTHER EARTH and was rewarded by this interview with the director:

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/1153133/another_earth_an_interview_with_director_mike_cahill.html

Cahill says: >It started with a simple idea, which was what it would be like to meet yourself. Like, if Ryan gets to sit across from Ryan, what would that feel like emotionally?
We thought, what if all 6.3 billion people on the planet could imagine that possibility. Emotionally, would you like or dislike that person if you could objectively look at them from the outside?    And so we came up with this idea for Another Earth, and then we were thinking, what?s the most important story to tell within this context, and we thought of someone who?s seeking self-forgiveness. Could she let herself off the hook for doing something tragic?>>

We talk about what is "required" by grammatical, rhetorical, generic structures.  It's fair to ask what "obligations" are accepted by the creators of the text.  Cahill talks about the video boxing scene:

The interviewer says: >I liked the bonding over Wii Sports, too. I don?t know whose idea that was?>>

Cahill: >[Laughs] Actually, when we wrote that, we were thinking it was going to be a much more intense scene. They?re boxing, so there?s a meta vibe to it. But it?s so tender the way it unfolded, and sweet. It took their relationship a few beats forward in the story, which is great. And shooting in order allowed me to recognise that it was so sweet and tender that we could move things forward in later scenes. It?s been earned ? their relationship?s earned a couple of beats? closeness.>>

What has to be "earned" is the emotional realism.  Planets can  come and go like images clipped from NASA stores along with astro strawberries.

And you will all be glad to hear about this:

INTERVIEWER: >It?s interesting, the last couple of years have seen some really good indie sci-fi. It?s almost been a mini renaissance, really. Why do you think that is?>>

Cahill replies: >I think that?s such a smart thing to say. There is a mini renaissance in sci-fi. I think there?s a lot more access to the story making tools; I think, as a culture, telling stories through fantasy and science fiction allows a certain metaphor to get closer to who we are as humans, and so there?s a great deal of freedom of the imagination, and a questioning of who we are. So the fact that filmmakers have the tools to tell these stories is really exciting.
We?re not just making ?kids sitting on a couch drama?, we can tell big, big stories to understand humanity.>>>


From alanelms at aol.com  Thu Jan 26 01:37:26 2012
From: alanelms at aol.com (alanelms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:37:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
Message-ID: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>

Today's Daily Kos political blog compares?Newt Gingrich's current advocacy of a Mars expedition?with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years ago,?both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
?
Alan Elms
?

?

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From slonczewski at kenyon.edu  Thu Jan 26 08:40:58 2012
From: slonczewski at kenyon.edu (Joan Slonczewski)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:40:58 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
Message-ID: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>

A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a stage where,
instead of actually holding an election they selected one "Mr Average"
voter, asked him a series of questions, and selected the winner on the
basis of his answers."

Does anyone know this story?

Joan
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From ddavis at gdn.edu  Thu Jan 26 08:53:52 2012
From: ddavis at gdn.edu (Davis, Doug)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:53:52 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>

Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the second world war.

This would make him the first science fiction author to become President (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF nonetheless).

Doug

Doug Davis, Ph.D.
Editor, SFRA Review
Associate Professor of English
Division of Humanities
Gordon College
419 College Drive
Barnesville, GA 30204
ddavis at gdn.edu
(678) 359 5817 (office)
(678) 359 5140 (fax)

________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com [alanelms at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!

Alan Elms




From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Thu Jan 26 09:22:10 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:22:10 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
Message-ID: <D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>

We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel out of  
place on a red planet,

--J.J.


On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:

> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and  
> the second world war.
>
> This would make him the first science fiction author to become  
> President (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction  
> "active history"--SF nonetheless).
>
> Doug
>
> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
> Editor, SFRA Review
> Associate Professor of English
> Division of Humanities
> Gordon College
> 419 College Drive
> Barnesville, GA 30204
> ddavis at gdn.edu
> (678) 359 5817 (office)
> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l- 
> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com  
> [alanelms at aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>
> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current  
> advocacy of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy  
> several years ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US  
> Presidency:
>
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>
> Alan Elms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>


From west at engr.wisc.edu  Thu Jan 26 09:32:05 2012
From: west at engr.wisc.edu (Richard West)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:32:05 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
In-Reply-To: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F2163E5.1070507@engr.wisc.edu>

On 1/26/2012 7:40 AM, Joan Slonczewski wrote:
> A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a stage 
> where, instead of actually holding an election they selected one "Mr 
> Average" voter, asked him a series of questions, and selected the 
> winner on the basis of his answers."
>
> Does anyone know this story?
>
> Joan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

"Franchise" (1955) by Isaac Asimov. It's in his collection _Earth Is 
Room Enough_ (1957) and probably other places.

Richard West
University of Wisconsin-Madison
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From dgrace2 at uwo.ca  Thu Jan 26 10:07:05 2012
From: dgrace2 at uwo.ca (Dominick Grace)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:07:05 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
In-Reply-To: <7120dc3dd3d0a.4f216bef@uwo.ca>
References: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7610d437d55c7.4f216ac1@uwo.ca> <76509086d0c75.4f216b39@uwo.ca>
	<7650841cd1b2b.4f216b76@uwo.ca> <7120dc3dd3d0a.4f216bef@uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <7120a3c3d341a.4f2125c9@uwo.ca>

"Franchise," by Isaac Asimov. 
 
(There was also that movie, "Swing Vote," in which the election came down to one guy's vote, but not because he'd been selected and questioned to determine he was truly "Mr Average") 
 
Dom 
 
On 01/26/12, Joan Slonczewski <slonczewski at kenyon.edu> wrote:

> 
> A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a stage where, instead of actually holding an election they selected one "Mr Average" voter, asked him a series of questions, and selected the winner on the basis of his answers." 
> 
> Does anyone know this story?
> 
> Joan
> 
> 

 
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From slonczewski at kenyon.edu  Thu Jan 26 10:15:50 2012
From: slonczewski at kenyon.edu (Joan Slonczewski)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:15:50 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
In-Reply-To: <7120a3c3d341a.4f2125c9@uwo.ca>
References: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7610d437d55c7.4f216ac1@uwo.ca> <76509086d0c75.4f216b39@uwo.ca>
	<7650841cd1b2b.4f216b76@uwo.ca> <7120dc3dd3d0a.4f216bef@uwo.ca>
	<7120a3c3d341a.4f2125c9@uwo.ca>
Message-ID: <CAAzKrdL0aRa9DC6Ewb2HQ0nT-hy_0v_A5_SmCpuCbae0CS0Jcg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone for pointing out this Asimov story. I find it ironic
that Asimov thought technology would make elections predictable, whereas
IMHO elections are becoming increasingly erratic and unpredictable.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Dominick Grace <dgrace2 at uwo.ca> wrote:

> "Franchise," by Isaac Asimov.
>
> (There was also that movie, "Swing Vote," in which the election came down
> to one guy's vote, but not because he'd been selected and questioned to
> determine he was truly "Mr Average")
>
> Dom
>
> On 01/26/12, *Joan Slonczewski *<slonczewski at kenyon.edu> wrote:
>
> A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a stage
> where, instead of actually holding an election they selected one "Mr
> Average" voter, asked him a series of questions, and selected the winner on
> the basis of his answers."
>
> Does anyone know this story?
>
> Joan
>
>
>
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From edward.james at ucd.ie  Thu Jan 26 10:24:14 2012
From: edward.james at ucd.ie (Edward James)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:24:14 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
In-Reply-To: <CAAzKrdL0aRa9DC6Ewb2HQ0nT-hy_0v_A5_SmCpuCbae0CS0Jcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7610d437d55c7.4f216ac1@uwo.ca> <76509086d0c75.4f216b39@uwo.ca>
	<7650841cd1b2b.4f216b76@uwo.ca> <7120dc3dd3d0a.4f216bef@uwo.ca>
	<7120a3c3d341a.4f2125c9@uwo.ca>
	<CAAzKrdL0aRa9DC6Ewb2HQ0nT-hy_0v_A5_SmCpuCbae0CS0Jcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A3D9C24-B21D-4D77-A112-A925EEFBAD81@ucd.ie>

I am not sure that history itself isn't getting more erratic and  
unpredictable too; which makes Hari Seldon's science even less likely  
than it used to seem. I wonder what Newt Gingrich hopes to achieve by  
giving copies of the Foundation trilogy to his staffers?

Edward

On 26 Jan 2012, at 15:15, Joan Slonczewski wrote:

> Thanks to everyone for pointing out this Asimov story. I find it  
> ironic that Asimov thought technology would make elections  
> predictable, whereas IMHO elections are becoming increasingly  
> erratic and unpredictable.
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Dominick Grace <dgrace2 at uwo.ca>  
> wrote:
> "Franchise," by Isaac Asimov.
>
> (There was also that movie, "Swing Vote," in which the election came  
> down to one guy's vote, but not because he'd been selected and  
> questioned to determine he was truly "Mr Average")
>
> Dom
>
> On 01/26/12, Joan Slonczewski <slonczewski at kenyon.edu> wrote:
>>
>> A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a  
>> stage where, instead of actually holding an election they selected  
>> one "Mr Average" voter, asked him a series of questions, and  
>> selected the winner on the basis of his answers."
>>
>> Does anyone know this story?
>>
>> Joan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From sands at uwm.edu  Thu Jan 26 10:38:26 2012
From: sands at uwm.edu (Peter Sands)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:38:26 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Story about opinion polling
In-Reply-To: <8A3D9C24-B21D-4D77-A112-A925EEFBAD81@ucd.ie>
References: <CAAzKrdLsves2qSGo-Ni_kZiZbC80oWtUvYwJXA-90Pbg8BHoJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7610d437d55c7.4f216ac1@uwo.ca> <76509086d0c75.4f216b39@uwo.ca>
	<7650841cd1b2b.4f216b76@uwo.ca> <7120dc3dd3d0a.4f216bef@uwo.ca>
	<7120a3c3d341a.4f2125c9@uwo.ca>
	<CAAzKrdL0aRa9DC6Ewb2HQ0nT-hy_0v_A5_SmCpuCbae0CS0Jcg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A3D9C24-B21D-4D77-A112-A925EEFBAD81@ucd.ie>
Message-ID: <4F217372.50304@uwm.edu>

Asimov's second-published story, "Trends" (1939), posits a 1973 when 
"antiscientific religious conformism is in total control of American 
society" (Franklin, "America as Science Fiction: 1939," in Slusser, 
Rabkin, Scholes, /Coordinates/ 111), and in which Congress outlaws 
rocketry. His non-conforming, capitalist genius scientist hero secretly 
builds "The New Prometheus" rocket, travels to the moon, restores public 
interest and faith in science, and etc.

In Asimov's 1973, the country is so anti-science that "'once more 
colleges found themselves forced to reinstate philosophy and the 
classics as the chief studies'" (cited in Franklin 111).

<sigh>

Asimov was batting .500?



On 1/26/12 9:24 AM, Edward James wrote:
> I am not sure that history itself isn't getting more erratic and 
> unpredictable too; which makes Hari Seldon's science even less likely 
> than it used to seem. I wonder what Newt Gingrich hopes to achieve by 
> giving copies of the Foundation trilogy to his staffers?
>
> Edward
>
> On 26 Jan 2012, at 15:15, Joan Slonczewski wrote:
>
>> Thanks to everyone for pointing out this Asimov story. I find it 
>> ironic that Asimov thought technology would make elections 
>> predictable, whereas IMHO elections are becoming increasingly erratic 
>> and unpredictable.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Dominick Grace <dgrace2 at uwo.ca 
>> <mailto:dgrace2 at uwo.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>     "Franchise," by Isaac Asimov.
>>     (There was also that movie, "Swing Vote," in which the election
>>     came down to one guy's vote, but not because he'd been selected
>>     and questioned to determine he was truly "Mr Average")
>>     Dom
>>     On 01/26/12, *Joan Slonczewski *<slonczewski at kenyon.edu
>>     <mailto:slonczewski at kenyon.edu>> wrote:
>>>     A blogger recalls "a story where opinion polling had reached a
>>>     stage where, instead of actually holding an election they
>>>     selected one "Mr Average" voter, asked him a series of
>>>     questions, and selected the winner on the basis of his answers."
>>>
>>>     Does anyone know this story?
>>>
>>>     Joan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

-- 
__________
Peter Sands
Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies
UW-Milwaukee English Department
http://www.uwm.edu/~sands ||  http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/English
414.229.5912 || 414.229.2643 (fax)
Editor, H-UTOPIA || http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~utopia/


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From dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 10:46:12 2012
From: dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com (Jorge Martins Rosa)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:46:12 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>
	<CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>

He may be disappointed if instead of a Red Planet he finds a "Pinko ?" planet.

Jorge Rosa
(Sorry, first reply was only to John Pierce.)


 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, John Pierce <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com> wrote:
>> We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel out of place
>> on a red planet,
>>
>> --J.J.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the
>>> second world war.
>>>
>>> This would make him the first science fiction author to become President
>>> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF
>>> nonetheless).
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
>>> Editor, SFRA Review
>>> Associate Professor of English
>>> Division of Humanities
>>> Gordon College
>>> 419 College Drive
>>> Barnesville, GA 30204
>>> ddavis at gdn.edu
>>> (678) 359 5817?(office)
>>> (678) 359 5140?(fax)
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com [alanelms at aol.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
>>> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>>>
>>> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy
>>> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years
>>> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>>>
>>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>>>
>>> Alan Elms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Thu Jan 26 11:23:07 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:23:07 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>
	<CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFB497B7-CBEC-4C55-87AD-A95E8BDF720D@ewwpi.com>

He'd never make it in the UK. The mere mention of a newt is  
considered hilarious there, as witness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

--J.J.P.

On Jan 26, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Jorge Martins Rosa wrote:

> He may be disappointed if instead of a Red Planet he finds a  
> "Pinko ?" planet.
>
> Jorge Rosa
> (Sorry, first reply was only to John Pierce.)
>
>
>  On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, John Pierce  
> <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com> wrote:
>>> We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel  
>>> out of place
>>> on a red planet,
>>>
>>> --J.J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:
>>>
>>>> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war  
>>>> and the
>>>> second world war.
>>>>
>>>> This would make him the first science fiction author to become  
>>>> President
>>>> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active  
>>>> history"--SF
>>>> nonetheless).
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
>>>> Editor, SFRA Review
>>>> Associate Professor of English
>>>> Division of Humanities
>>>> Gordon College
>>>> 419 College Drive
>>>> Barnesville, GA 30204
>>>> ddavis at gdn.edu
>>>> (678) 359 5817 (office)
>>>> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l- 
>>>> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On
>>>> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com [alanelms at aol.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
>>>> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>>>>
>>>> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's  
>>>> current advocacy
>>>> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy  
>>>> several years
>>>> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>>>>
>>>> Alan Elms
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 12:45:40 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>
	<CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1327599940.88783.YahooMailNeo@web161501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

There was a Greek joke during the cold war, where the US President is woken up in the middle of the night with news that the Soviets are painting the moon red. After emergency meetings they figure out what to do: wait until the whole moon is red, and then send a team up there to write "Coca Cola" on it!

Cespina




________________________________
 From: Jorge Martins Rosa <dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
 
He may be disappointed if instead of a Red Planet he finds a "Pinko ?" planet.

Jorge Rosa
(Sorry, first reply was only to John Pierce.)


On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, John Pierce <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com> wrote:
>> We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel out of place
>> on a red planet,
>>
>> --J.J.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the
>>> second world war.
>>>
>>> This would make him the first science fiction author to become President
>>> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF
>>> nonetheless).
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
>>> Editor, SFRA Review
>>> Associate Professor of English
>>> Division of Humanities
>>> Gordon College
>>> 419 College Drive
>>> Barnesville, GA 30204
>>> ddavis at gdn.edu
>>> (678) 359 5817?(office)
>>> (678) 359 5140?(fax)
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com [alanelms at aol.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
>>> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>>>
>>> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy
>>> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years
>>> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>>>
>>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>>>
>>> Alan Elms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From rieder at hawaii.edu  Thu Jan 26 13:43:00 2012
From: rieder at hawaii.edu (John Rieder)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:43:00 -1000
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFEnr3fpvo25=apiZPsL3sWFZFWsb3brhexg5ofjw9SOXYDHiw@mail.gmail.com>

Arguably Ronald Reagan already earned this distinction by way of his
alternative histories of his own past.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 3:53 AM, Davis, Doug <ddavis at gdn.edu> wrote:

> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the
> second world war.
>
> This would make him the first science fiction author to become President
> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF
> nonetheless).
>
> Doug
>
> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
> Editor, SFRA Review
> Associate Professor of English
> Division of Humanities
> Gordon College
> 419 College Drive
> Barnesville, GA 30204
> ddavis at gdn.edu
> (678) 359 5817 (office)
> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On
> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com [alanelms at aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>
> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy
> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years
> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>
> Alan Elms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
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From ddavis at gdn.edu  Thu Jan 26 15:04:11 2012
From: ddavis at gdn.edu (Davis, Doug)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:04:11 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <1327599940.88783.YahooMailNeo@web161501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>
	<CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1327599940.88783.YahooMailNeo@web161501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0EF91658-1CE6-4C49-9362-643011A601FA@gdn.edu>

Ha!  I wonder if this joke comes from Heinlein. Isn't that pretty much how D.D. Harriman sold the moon? Walking into different meetings wearing a pin that simulated what the moon would look like with different national and corporate logos (one being Moka-Coka) on it?
Doug

On Jan 26, 2012, at 12:45 PM, Despina Kakoudaki wrote:

There was a Greek joke during the cold war, where the US President is woken up in the middle of the night with news that the Soviets are painting the moon red. After emergency meetings they figure out what to do: wait until the whole moon is red, and then send a team up there to write "Coca Cola" on it!

Cespina



________________________________
From: Jorge Martins Rosa <dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com<mailto:dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com>>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

He may be disappointed if instead of a Red Planet he finds a "Pinko ?" planet.

Jorge Rosa
(Sorry, first reply was only to John Pierce.)


On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, John Pierce <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com<mailto:pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com>> wrote:
>> We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel out of place
>> on a red planet,
>>
>> --J.J.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the
>>> second world war.
>>>
>>> This would make him the first science fiction author to become President
>>> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF
>>> nonetheless).
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
>>> Editor, SFRA Review
>>> Associate Professor of English
>>> Division of Humanities
>>> Gordon College
>>> 419 College Drive
>>> Barnesville, GA 30204
>>> ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>
>>> (678) 359 5817 (office)
>>> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu> [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>] On
>>> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com> [alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
>>> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>>>
>>> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy
>>> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years
>>> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>>>
>>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>>>
>>> Alan Elms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


From ddavis at gdn.edu  Thu Jan 26 15:09:19 2012
From: ddavis at gdn.edu (Davis, Doug)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3fpvo25=apiZPsL3sWFZFWsb3brhexg5ofjw9SOXYDHiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<CAFEnr3fpvo25=apiZPsL3sWFZFWsb3brhexg5ofjw9SOXYDHiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <133505CB-1787-4540-B8D8-168454A8B394@gdn.edu>

And don't forget the Strategic Defense Initiative! that was pure sci-fi...
d

On Jan 26, 2012, at 1:43 PM, John Rieder wrote:

Arguably Ronald Reagan already earned this distinction by way of his alternative histories of his own past.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 3:53 AM, Davis, Doug <ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>> wrote:
Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the second world war.

This would make him the first science fiction author to become President (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF nonetheless).

Doug

Doug Davis, Ph.D.
Editor, SFRA Review
Associate Professor of English
Division of Humanities
Gordon College
419 College Drive
Barnesville, GA 30204
ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>
(678) 359 5817<tel:%28678%29%20359%205817> (office)
(678) 359 5140<tel:%28678%29%20359%205140> (fax)

________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu> [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>] On Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com> [alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com>]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!

Alan Elms



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l



From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Thu Jan 26 15:02:33 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:02:33 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <CAFEnr3fpvo25=apiZPsL3sWFZFWsb3brhexg5ofjw9SOXYDHiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<CAFEnr3fpvo25=apiZPsL3sWFZFWsb3brhexg5ofjw9SOXYDHiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A32E3411-FE9A-4669-BC47-C881D620D4F3@ewwpi.com>

Reminds me of a gag a friend of mine made up, based on the mug shot  
scene from RAISING ARIZONA. Somebody's interviewing Reagan and asks  
who the biggest influence on his life was.

R: That would be my wife Nancy. I'll never forget the advice she gave  
me when we first met.

Q: Oh? What was that?

R" "Turn to the right."

--J.J.P,

On Jan 26, 2012, at 1:43 PM, John Rieder wrote:

> Arguably Ronald Reagan already earned this distinction by way of  
> his alternative histories of his own past.
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 3:53 AM, Davis, Doug <ddavis at gdn.edu> wrote:
> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and  
> the second world war.
>
> This would make him the first science fiction author to become  
> President (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction  
> "active history"--SF nonetheless).
>
> Doug
>
> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
> Editor, SFRA Review
> Associate Professor of English
> Division of Humanities
> Gordon College
> 419 College Drive
> Barnesville, GA 30204
> ddavis at gdn.edu
> (678) 359 5817 (office)
> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l- 
> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com  
> [alanelms at aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>
> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current  
> advocacy of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy  
> several years ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US  
> Presidency:
>
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!
>
> Alan Elms
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 17:21:50 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:21:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <0EF91658-1CE6-4C49-9362-643011A601FA@gdn.edu>
References: <8CEAA0C1A4E4A65-152C-3EB07@webmail-d047.sysops.aol.com>
	<B23084F323CB5D49A259E6EBBC3BE0AF01FDEFF43BCB@pegasus.gdn.peachnet.edu>
	<D16C52DB-FE9E-4263-BF8A-888AFC82DA9A@ewwpi.com>
	<CAHKGJzKrtu+71=bqhRw+H53CBC7PJX4FSjevGEHjx+KxBuaPgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHKGJzJc=_9booBiow2h-e+QgvASwE4wGDMyJvkMENpybynZsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1327599940.88783.YahooMailNeo@web161501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<0EF91658-1CE6-4C49-9362-643011A601FA@gdn.edu>
Message-ID: <1327616510.44171.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I bet it was... a lot of Greek pop culture is like that, and I heard this in the late 80s...

Despina



________________________________
 From: "Davis, Doug" <ddavis at gdn.edu>
To: Despina Kakoudaki <dk2244 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Jorge Martins Rosa <dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com>; "sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu" <sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
 
Ha!? I wonder if this joke comes from Heinlein. Isn't that pretty much how D.D. Harriman sold the moon? Walking into different meetings wearing a pin that simulated what the moon would look like with different national and corporate logos (one being Moka-Coka) on it?
Doug

On Jan 26, 2012, at 12:45 PM, Despina Kakoudaki wrote:

There was a Greek joke during the cold war, where the US President is woken up in the middle of the night with news that the Soviets are painting the moon red. After emergency meetings they figure out what to do: wait until the whole moon is red, and then send a team up there to write "Coca Cola" on it!

Cespina



________________________________
From: Jorge Martins Rosa <dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com<mailto:dedalus.jmmr at gmail.com>>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

He may be disappointed if instead of a Red Planet he finds a "Pinko ?" planet.

Jorge Rosa
(Sorry, first reply was only to John Pierce.)


On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:22 PM, John Pierce <pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com<mailto:pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com>> wrote:
>> We could start a campaign to send Newt to Mars! Only he'd feel out of place
>> on a red planet,
>>
>> --J.J.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Davis, Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the
>>> second world war.
>>>
>>> This would make him the first science fiction author to become President
>>> (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF
>>> nonetheless).
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Doug Davis, Ph.D.
>>> Editor, SFRA Review
>>> Associate Professor of English
>>> Division of Humanities
>>> Gordon College
>>> 419 College Drive
>>> Barnesville, GA 30204
>>> ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>
>>> (678) 359 5817 (office)
>>> (678) 359 5140 (fax)
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu> [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>] On
>>> Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com> [alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
>>> To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
>>>
>>> Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy
>>> of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years
>>> ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:
>>>
>>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches! 
>>>
>>> Alan Elms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SFRA-L mailing list
>>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SFRA-L mailing list
>> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 


_______________________________________________
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SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
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From vallen at iastate.edu  Thu Jan 26 20:03:55 2012
From: vallen at iastate.edu (Allen, Virginia [ENGL])
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:03:55 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] The Pact: Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich,
 and the Rivalry that Defined a Generation
Message-ID: <0C6E7D71A71F984CBE4E2F5B950D13013ED0FD8E4F@EXITS713.its.iastate.edu>

Here's a book I probably wouldn't have picked up had the Newt not just surged while sort of acting as if he were the guy in charge of everything budgetary during the late 1990s.  It's written by Steven M. Gillon, copyright 2008, _The Pact: Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and the Rivalry that Defined a Generation_.  I'm about half-way through (Clinton's first term), and it is totally fascinating.   ... Wear a raincoat to read it.

From clan.rockwood at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 09:10:28 2012
From: clan.rockwood at gmail.com (Sue & Bruce Rockwood)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:10:28 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Asteroid Near Miss
Message-ID: <CAKh09NfyAKzBFQ=g+LMheP7aQ2_x-U9A0UMaXq0-aDRHZPgqNw@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder how safe we really are..... Bruce
27 January 2012 Last updated at 04:51 ET
Share this page

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Asteroid to make near-miss fly-by
[image: Asteroid Vesta] The asteroid is minuscule relative to the recently
photographed asteroid Vesta
 Continue reading the main
story<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16756450#story_continues_1>
Related
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   - NEOShield to assess Earth
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   - Giant asteroid passes near
Earth<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15572634>

 An asteroid will pass by the Earth on Friday in something of a cosmic
near-miss, making its closest approach at about 1600 GMT.

The asteroid, estimated to be about 11m (36ft) in diameter, was first
detected on Wednesday.

At its closest, the space rock - named 2012 BX34 - will pass within about
60,000km of Earth - less than a fifth of the distance to the Moon.

Astronomers stress that there is no cause for concern.

"It's one of the closest approaches recorded," said Gareth Williams,
associate director of the US-based Minor Planet Center.
"It makes it in to the top 20 closest approaches, but it's sufficiently far
away... that there's absolutely no chance of it hitting us," he told the BBC


-- 
""We believe we teach students before we teach subjects." And then we try
to live that every day."
- Chris Lehmann quoting Nel Noddings.

Operor plures res.
Nunquam trado navis navis.
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From mulcahy at rulmail.rutgers.edu  Thu Jan 26 15:22:31 2012
From: mulcahy at rulmail.rutgers.edu (Kevin Mulcahy)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:22:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)
In-Reply-To: <133505CB-1787-4540-B8D8-168454A8B394@gdn.edu>
Message-ID: <157f0594-0973-49df-b97c-bece7d2b9846@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>

This might provoke a discussion of whether sf or fantasy is the appropriate genre for SDI--but perhaps sci-fi does get right at the essence of it.

Kevin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Davis" <ddavis at gdn.edu>
To: "John Rieder" <rieder at hawaii.edu>
Cc: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:09:19 PM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

And don't forget the Strategic Defense Initiative! that was pure sci-fi...
d

On Jan 26, 2012, at 1:43 PM, John Rieder wrote:

Arguably Ronald Reagan already earned this distinction by way of his alternative histories of his own past.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 3:53 AM, Davis, Doug <ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>> wrote:
Newt Gingrich has written alternate histories of the civil war and the second world war.

This would make him the first science fiction author to become President (although Newt calls his kind of speculative fiction "active history"--SF nonetheless).

Doug

Doug Davis, Ph.D.
Editor, SFRA Review
Associate Professor of English
Division of Humanities
Gordon College
419 College Drive
Barnesville, GA 30204
ddavis at gdn.edu<mailto:ddavis at gdn.edu>
(678) 359 5817<tel:%28678%29%20359%205817> (office)
(678) 359 5140<tel:%28678%29%20359%205140> (fax)

________________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu> [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>] On Behalf Of alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com> [alanelms at aol.com<mailto:alanelms at aol.com>]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 AM
To: SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [SFRA-L] To Mars! (Newt Gingrich vs Dave Chapelle)

Today's Daily Kos political blog compares Newt Gingrich's current advocacy of a Mars expedition with Dave Chappell's similar advocacy several years ago, both in the service of a campaign for the US Presidency:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058501/-Mars,-bitches!

Alan Elms



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu<mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


_______________________________________________
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From Larsen at mail.ccsu.edu  Fri Jan 27 09:15:41 2012
From: Larsen at mail.ccsu.edu (Larsen, Kristine (Physics Earth Sciences))
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:15:41 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Asteroid Near Miss
In-Reply-To: <CAKh09NfyAKzBFQ=g+LMheP7aQ2_x-U9A0UMaXq0-aDRHZPgqNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKh09NfyAKzBFQ=g+LMheP7aQ2_x-U9A0UMaXq0-aDRHZPgqNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F49B22CD0897EA44A3FD95E781D25B1A15021EFA16@cexmb2.facstaff.ccsu.edu>

In a nutshell - we're not.

Thankfully after the slew of "asteroid hits earth" disaster movies in the 1990s Congress took astronomers seriously when we said we need resources to look for NEOS and monitor their orbits.

If you want to keep track of objects known to be passing by, go to www.spaceweather.com<http://www.spaceweather.com> and scroll to the bottom.

But it's not the ones we know about that are the reason for concern, rather the ones we haven't discovered yet.

KL

Kristine Larsen, Ph.D.
Professor of Physics and Astronomy
CCSU
(860)832-2938
"Of star dust are we made and by starlight we live." -- Allie Vibert Douglas (1894-1988), Dean of Women and Professor of Astronomy, Queen's University, Ontario
"If anyone deny a vacuum, let him look into the mind of an unreflecting person, and he will find one." -- Margaret Bryan, A Compendious System of Astronomy, 1797.

   (\_/)
  (='.'=)
  (")_(")

"I've got a theory
It could be bunnies..."

- Buffy the Musical

From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sue & Bruce Rockwood
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:10 AM
To: SFRA-L
Subject: [SFRA-L] Asteroid Near Miss

I wonder how safe we really are..... Bruce
27 January 2012 Last updated at 04:51 ET
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Asteroid to make near-miss fly-by
[cid:image001.jpg at 01CCDCD4.3D973940]The asteroid is minuscule relative to the recently photographed asteroid Vesta
Continue reading the main story<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16756450#story_continues_1>
Related Stories

 *   NEOShield to assess Earth defence<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16651642>
 *   Giant asteroid passes near Earth<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15572634>

An asteroid will pass by the Earth on Friday in something of a cosmic near-miss, making its closest approach at about 1600 GMT.

The asteroid, estimated to be about 11m (36ft) in diameter, was first detected on Wednesday.

At its closest, the space rock - named 2012 BX34 - will pass within about 60,000km of Earth - less than a fifth of the distance to the Moon.

Astronomers stress that there is no cause for concern.

"It's one of the closest approaches recorded," said Gareth Williams, associate director of the US-based Minor Planet Center.
"It makes it in to the top 20 closest approaches, but it's sufficiently far away... that there's absolutely no chance of it hitting us," he told the BBC


--
""We believe we teach students before we teach subjects." And then we try to live that every day."
- Chris Lehmann quoting Nel Noddings.

Operor plures res.
Nunquam trado navis navis.

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From erlichrd at muohio.edu  Fri Jan 27 22:56:13 2012
From: erlichrd at muohio.edu (Richard Erlich)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:56:13 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
 =?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <68199B05-AF12-4D25-9A67-B2CB78CA2900@gmail.com>
References: <68199B05-AF12-4D25-9A67-B2CB78CA2900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>

Greetings.

I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world. 
	Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.)


On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:

> Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 
> 
> Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters, situations and plot elements of computer games.  A review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic [that] requires no introduction."
> 
> Thought Bill: WTF?  For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of significance.  Short of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance of the genre.
> 
> That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write skillfully in English...
> 
> Bill

________________________________________
Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
	Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
	Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From bstypczynski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 00:21:52 2012
From: bstypczynski at yahoo.com (Brent Stypczynski)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:21:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
 =?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <1327728112.49912.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I suppose, using the example given, that it depends on how one defines "gaming".? 

For two of the more common (non-gambling) definitions for the term: 1) the practice of playing tabletop RPGs and 2) the practice of playing video games, I'll weigh in.? In the latter case, my answer is definitely.? For the former, to some degree this is the case, but in a much more limited and perhaps more abstract way than in the case of video games (referencing tabletop RPGs, I've referred to some movies--such as "The Big Hit" and "Hackers"--as "gamer movies" as have some gamer friends).? Insofar as tabletop gaming has influenced video games (e.g. every fantasy video game ever produced), both have created numerous allusions and will likely continue to do so, I think, as they become increasingly mainstream.

In the case of Risk, I think a knowledge of video games is completely unnecessary.? It may say something that my first thought was "There are people who have never heard of Risk?" (seeing as it has been a reasonably to exceedingly popular strategy boardgame since very soon after its 1957 introduction).

Brent Stypczynski, Dr.

Columbus State Community College

English Department

bstypczynski at yahoo.com

bstypczy at cscc.edu

--- On Fri, 1/27/12, Richard Erlich <erlichrd at muohio.edu> wrote:
Greetings.
I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world.?	Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.)

On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 

Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters, situations and plot elements of computer games. ?A review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic [that] requires no introduction."

Thought Bill: WTF? ?For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of significance. ?Short of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance of the genre.

That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write skillfully in English...

Bill

________________________________________Richard D. Erlich, Film Script AnalystPort Hueneme, CA 93041-3447	IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/	Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich	Wiki:?http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page	Le Guin book:?http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm






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From fireflygm at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 09:12:22 2012
From: fireflygm at gmail.com (Nathan Rockwood)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:12:22 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <1327728112.49912.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
	<1327728112.49912.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAF6-q9n380MjCP4Uj0dvb2_ajdmOdzY3YP17k2_B4JN_aHeRw@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking as a designer of tabletop RPGs and a teacher of video-game design
(and an avid player of all kinds of games), I can attest that there are
already plenty of allusions to video games in many other forms of media.
They've been there for a while, but many are simply subtle enough that
those unfamiliar will miss them (such as a reference, in an episode of
Leverage, to getting some 'hot coffee' alluding to the minor "hot coffee
mod" involving a Grand Theft Auto video game with pornographic mini-game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod ).

Part of the reason both tabletop and video games were small industries was *
because* of the image of gaming as counterculture/weird/scary/Satanic, and
as that image is changing, so too is the potential audience. According to
the ESA <http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp>, the average video
gamer these days is 35 years old, 42% of them are female (so the perceived
gender imbalance is lessening), and 72% of American households play
games---so it would actually be very odd if we didn't start seeing video
games referenced in literature and media. I mean, that's a larger
percentage of Americans with something in common than those who share a
political, ideological, or religious background, in many cases.

Tabletop RPGs are a much smaller niche hobby, so you aren't as likely to
start seeing those referenced in the New York Times, but that may be
changing as well. Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, owners of Dungeons and
Dragons, the most popular single tabletop game, revamped the game a few
years ago (4th edition) to be easier to play and appeal more widely, and
are now in the process of doing so again. They sometimes take out TV ads,
and have spawned more than one official movie (and dozens of fan-films). So
we may someday see more and more references to d20s and critical hits in
literature.

Of course, this all completely ignores the books that are actually *set* in
the franchises of video and tabletop games; Warhammer, D&D, Starcraft,
Warcraft... just as with many television franchises, there are always
novelizations to churn out.

~Nathan Rockwood

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Brent Stypczynski
<bstypczynski at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I suppose, using the example given, that it depends on how one defines
> "gaming".
>
> For two of the more common (non-gambling) definitions for the term: 1) the
> practice of playing tabletop RPGs and 2) the practice of playing video
> games, I'll weigh in.  In the latter case, my answer is definitely.  For
> the former, to some degree this is the case, but in a much more limited and
> perhaps more abstract way than in the case of video games (referencing
> tabletop RPGs, I've referred to some movies--such as "The Big Hit" and
> "Hackers"--as "gamer movies" as have some gamer friends).  Insofar as
> tabletop gaming has influenced video games (e.g. every fantasy video game
> ever produced), both have created numerous allusions and will likely
> continue to do so, I think, as they become increasingly mainstream.
>
> In the case of Risk, I think a knowledge of video games is completely
> unnecessary.  It may say something that my first thought was "There are
> people who have never heard of Risk?" (seeing as it has been a reasonably
> to exceedingly popular strategy boardgame since very soon after its 1957
> introduction).
>
> Brent Stypczynski, Dr.
> Columbus State Community College
> English Department
> bstypczynski at yahoo.com
> bstypczy at cscc.edu
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 1/27/12, Richard Erlich <erlichrd at muohio.edu>* wrote:
>
> Greetings.
>
> I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an
> expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of
> cyberspace/techno-world.
>  Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an
> interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe
> not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility
> showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.)
>
>
> On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
>
> Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games:
>
> Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much anything I
> read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters,
> situations and plot elements of computer games.  A review of Risk 2 began
> with "Risk is a cult classic [that] requires no introduction."
>
> Thought Bill: WTF?  For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet", or from a
> SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of significance.  Short
> of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find
> lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance of
> the genre.
>
> That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write skillfully
> in English...
>
> Bill
>
>
>  ________________________________________
> Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
> Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
>  IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
>  Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
>  Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>  Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu <http://mc/compose?to=SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>


-- 
"This above all, to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."
      ~Hamlet, I.3.78-80
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From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Sat Jan 28 10:44:48 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:44:48 +0000
Subject: [SFRA-L] Exegesis
Message-ID: <W65128918299371327765488@webmail11>

There's an old saying that the Bible can be made to prove practically anything. Apparently the same is true of the arts. Here's a quote from a piece in today's New York Times about rival interpretations of Kubrick's THE SHINING.
@font-face { font-family: "Times New Roman";}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0pc 0pc 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }table.MsoNormalTable { font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; }?Room 237,? the first full-length documentary by thedirector Rodney Ascher, examines several of the most intriguing of thesetheories. It?s really about the Holocaust, one interviewee says, and Mr.Kubrick?s inability to address the horrors of the Final Solution on film. No,it?s about a different genocide, that of American Indians, another says,pointing to all the tribal-theme items adorning the Overlook Hotel?s walls. Athird claims it?s really Kubrick?s veiled confession that he helped NASA fakethe Apollo Moon landings.

Not having seen it, or likely to have a chance to, I can't say whether Ascher takes the third option as seriously as the others.

--J.J.P.




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From ecbogle at verizon.net  Sat Jan 28 10:34:45 2012
From: ecbogle at verizon.net (Edra Bogle)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:34:45 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
References: <68199B05-AF12-4D25-9A67-B2CB78CA2900@gmail.com>
	<8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <71C435761EB3446A8E4C36B83AC6121F@userpc>

Yesterday morning, while listening to CNN news, I was struck with two stories that seem relevant to this topic.  (I believe there have been similar news stories in the past, but it took these two together for my brain to make the connections.)   The most striking you could hardly have missed:  the two Canadian teenagers who built a "man" out of Legos, connected it to a weather balloon, supplied it with various technology to transmit its progress, and set it off.  It went up 15 miles before the balloon burst, but returned to earth with Legoman still intact.   The reporter said everyone was amazed at the ability of the teens to integrate all the required technology, and for a total cost of $400.   The other story was about two teens who were detected shortly before they blew up their high school, but who, once again, had planned a complex series of events that might well have created their own version of Columbine, as they said they desired.  Again the reporter commented on their ability to connect disparate technological elements with very little money involved.

Is it possible that we are educating a generation that thinks on a level previously attained only at a much more advanced age and after years of military training?  When a child begins playing these games while still in primary school, is it shaping their thought patterns?   Both of these stories related to teenagers;  is it possible that those persons who began in middle or high school and are now in their 20's or 30's did not have the thought patterns installed while the brain was still so flexible--the way that learning a foreign language is much easier for quite young children?   If so, what will be the social consequences?

Let's keep our eyes open for similar news stories.  I don't know whether gaming is a type of sf or not--probably depends on one's definition of both.  However, this type of "sf" may have quite unintended consequences for the "real" world.   For a widespread story about this phenomonon, cf Jason and "World of Warcraft" in the comic strip.  Our local paper dropped that strip and several others a few months ago, so I don't know where the story is going, but it too might be worth watching.  --  Edra Bogle,   Denton, Texas

  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Erlich 
  To: ListServ SFRA ; iafa 
  Cc: English Literature ListServ ; AlumList 
  Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]


  Greetings.


  I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world. 
  Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.)




  On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:


    Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 

    Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters, situations and plot elements of computer games.  A review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic [that] requires no introduction."

    Thought Bill: WTF?  For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of significance.  Short of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance of the genre.

    That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write skillfully in English...

    Bill


  ________________________________________
  Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
  Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
  IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
  Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
  Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
  Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm




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From dnsmlsn at csulb.edu  Sat Jan 28 18:30:15 2012
From: dnsmlsn at csulb.edu (Dave Samuelson)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:30:15 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
 =?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAF6-q9n380MjCP4Uj0dvb2_ajdmOdzY3YP17k2_B4JN_aHeRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
	<1327728112.49912.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<CAAF6-q9n380MjCP4Uj0dvb2_ajdmOdzY3YP17k2_B4JN_aHeRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F248507.50605@csulb.edu>

To my amazement, regularly in the top 10 rated tv series is The Big Bang 
Theory, surely a staple for many members of this list.  This series 
makes numerous allusions not just to sf movies and superhero comics, but 
also computer games, which I guess do not go over the heads of most of 
its viewers

As an addicted viewer (even of reruns on some occasions), I do not 
recall many if any references to written sf, however).  I dare say sf 
has always been more (as well as less) than literature, and would 
persevere even if all novels and short stories were to disappear.

Back to the point, however, am I being too sanguine in assuming that a 
limmited number of video games will be/are being absorbed gradually into 
public consciousness, more or less the way all culture is, without 
causing the end of the world? it?  Y2K, Mayan predictions, meteor 
strikes, and climate change, not to mention "THE SINGULARITY" (although 
I just did) have also penetrated pop culture, to some extent, however 
accurate or inaccurate they may be.

Dave Samuelson




On 1/28/2012 6:12 AM, Nathan Rockwood wrote:
> Speaking as a designer of tabletop RPGs and a teacher of video-game 
> design (and an avid player of all kinds of games), I can attest that 
> there are already plenty of allusions to video games in many other 
> forms of media. They've been there for a while, but many are simply 
> subtle enough that those unfamiliar will miss them (such as a 
> reference, in an episode of Leverage, to getting some 'hot coffee' 
> alluding to the minor "hot coffee mod" involving a Grand Theft Auto 
> video game with pornographic mini-game 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod ).
>
> Part of the reason both tabletop and video games were small industries 
> was /because/ of the image of gaming as 
> counterculture/weird/scary/Satanic, and as that image is changing, so 
> too is the potential audience. According to the ESA 
> <http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp>, the average video gamer 
> these days is 35 years old, 42% of them are female (so the perceived 
> gender imbalance is lessening), and 72% of American households play 
> games---so it would actually be very odd if we didn't start seeing 
> video games referenced in literature and media. I mean, that's a 
> larger percentage of Americans with something in common than those who 
> share a political, ideological, or religious background, in many cases.
>
> Tabletop RPGs are a much smaller niche hobby, so you aren't as likely 
> to start seeing those referenced in the New York Times, but that may 
> be changing as well. Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, owners of Dungeons 
> and Dragons, the most popular single tabletop game, revamped the game 
> a few years ago (4th edition) to be easier to play and appeal more 
> widely, and are now in the process of doing so again. They sometimes 
> take out TV ads, and have spawned more than one official movie (and 
> dozens of fan-films). So we may someday see more and more references 
> to d20s and critical hits in literature.
>
> Of course, this all completely ignores the books that are actually 
> /set/ in the franchises of video and tabletop games; Warhammer, D&D, 
> Starcraft, Warcraft... just as with many television franchises, there 
> are always novelizations to churn out.
>
> ~Nathan Rockwood
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Brent Stypczynski 
> <bstypczynski at yahoo.com <mailto:bstypczynski at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I suppose, using the example given, that it depends on how one
>     defines "gaming".
>
>     For two of the more common (non-gambling) definitions for the
>     term: 1) the practice of playing tabletop RPGs and 2) the practice
>     of playing video games, I'll weigh in.  In the latter case, my
>     answer is definitely.  For the former, to some degree this is the
>     case, but in a much more limited and perhaps more abstract way
>     than in the case of video games (referencing tabletop RPGs, I've
>     referred to some movies--such as "The Big Hit" and "Hackers"--as
>     "gamer movies" as have some gamer friends).  Insofar as tabletop
>     gaming has influenced video games (e.g. every fantasy video game
>     ever produced), both have created numerous allusions and will
>     likely continue to do so, I think, as they become increasingly
>     mainstream.
>
>     In the case of Risk, I think a knowledge of video games is
>     completely unnecessary.  It may say something that my first
>     thought was "There are people who have never heard of Risk?"
>     (seeing as it has been a reasonably to exceedingly popular
>     strategy boardgame since very soon after its 1957 introduction).
>
>     Brent Stypczynski, Dr.
>     Columbus State Community College
>     English Department
>     bstypczynski at yahoo.com <mailto:bstypczynski at yahoo.com>
>     bstypczy at cscc.edu <mailto:bstypczy at cscc.edu>
>
>
>     --- On *Fri, 1/27/12, Richard Erlich /<erlichrd at muohio.edu
>     <mailto:erlichrd at muohio.edu>>/* wrote:
>
>         Greetings.
>
>         I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will
>         identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other
>         aspects of cyberspace/techno-world.
>         Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill
>         raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature
>         narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may
>         be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film
>         scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.)
>
>
>         On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
>
>>         Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its
>>         zillions of games:
>>
>>         Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much
>>         anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic
>>         -- to characters, situations and plot elements of computer
>>         games.  A review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic
>>         [that] requires no introduction."
>>
>>         Thought Bill: WTF?  For me, a dialogue fragment from
>>         "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from
>>         "Casablanca" is full of significance.  Short of becoming a
>>         devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find
>>         lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total
>>         ignorance of the genre.
>>
>>         That is, if there are any people left with the ability to
>>         write skillfully in English...
>>
>>         Bill
>
>         ________________________________________
>         Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
>         Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
>         IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
>         Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
>         Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>         Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>         -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         SFRA-L mailing list
>         SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>         <http://mc/compose?to=SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>         http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     SFRA-L mailing list
>     SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "This above all, to thine own self be true,
> And it must follow, as the night the day,
> Thou canst not then be false to any man."
>       ~Hamlet, I.3.78-80
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From rob.latham at ucr.edu  Sat Jan 28 22:49:32 2012
From: rob.latham at ucr.edu (Rob Latham)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 19:49:32 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] Eaton Collection website redesigned
Message-ID: <6DC82937-1FFF-43D4-9962-FC26EBA0C51A@ucr.edu>

The website for UC-Riverside's Eaton Collection has been redesigned.  
The new version is not only more attractive but is much easier to  
navigate, and the information is organized more efficiently. Check it  
out when you get the chance:

http://eaton.ucr.edu/

From shalabare at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 01:29:10 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 01:29:10 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
 =?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <71C435761EB3446A8E4C36B83AC6121F@userpc>
References: <68199B05-AF12-4D25-9A67-B2CB78CA2900@gmail.com>
	<8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
	<71C435761EB3446A8E4C36B83AC6121F@userpc>
Message-ID: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>

I played Risk - the boardgame - a lot as a kid.  It's a stupid game.  
(No social game for several players should involve the gradual 
elimination of players, especially not with the simplistic rules and 
massing of armies that Risk entails.  What are the former players 
supposed to do once they've been eliminated?  Risk is so stupid it's 
practically war itself.)
In other news, I am personally a fan of Starcraft: Brood War, a 
real-time strategy (RTS) computer game.  It is IMHO the best strategy 
game since Go, and definitely the best military sf out there at the 
moment, which I suppose really isn't saying a whole lot.  There is a 
thriving Starcraft pro-gaming scene (dominated by South Korea, 
incidentally) which has definitely contributed vocabulary to the general 
computer gaming scene and beyond.  For example, "to zerg" has gained 
general acceptance as the strategy of overwhelming an opponent with 
massive numbers of relatively weak units.  In Starcraft, the Zerg are an 
alien race loosely based on the Alien movies, all angular and disgusting.
Like it or not, "we" are stuck with sf games like Halo and Starcraft.  
Indeed, the first introduction most kids have to the sf megatext is 
through these games, just as I first learned everything I needed to know 
about cyberpunk through Shadowrun - a pen-and-paper role-playing game - 
long before reading a single cyberpunk novel.
I personally think - and hope - that these military games (from RTS to 
FPS) are really just an episode, a stage in the development of a 
technology which, like Second Life, allows for ongoing and creation 
interconnection between people scattered all over the globe.  I do 
however hope that the next iteration doesn't look too much like the 
MMORPG - e.g. World of Warcraft - because those games look to me like 
consumerist labyrinths in which the only real goal is to acquire more 
(virtual) stuff and team up with people who will help you do it.
Just my 2 cents,
remain in light,
Sha

PS I think Edra is right that something is shifting; it may have to do 
with strategy- and cooperation-oriented online games, at least as much 
as it has to do with growing up in a very highly 
technologically-mediated environment, from which point of view many of 
the visions of early sf seem hokey.  At least Star Trek had communicators!

On 1/28/2012 10:34 AM, Edra Bogle wrote:
> Yesterday morning, while listening to CNN news, I was struck with two 
> stories that seem relevant to this topic.  (I believe there have been 
> similar news stories in the past, but it took these two together for 
> my brain to make the connections.)   The most striking you could 
> hardly have missed:  the two Canadian teenagers who built a "man" out 
> of Legos, connected it to a weather balloon, supplied it with various 
> technology to transmit its progress, and set it off.  It went up 15 
> miles before the balloon burst, but returned to earth with Legoman 
> still intact.   The reporter said everyone was amazed at the ability 
> of the teens to integrate all the required technology, and for a 
> total cost of $400.   The other story was about two teens who were 
> detected shortly before they blew up their high school, but who, once 
> again, had planned a complex series of events that might well have 
> created their own version of Columbine, as they said they desired.  
> Again the reporter commented on their ability to connect disparate 
> technological elements with very little money involved.
> Is it possible that we are educating a generation that thinks on a 
> level previously attained only at a much more advanced age and after 
> years of military training?  When a child begins playing these 
> games while still in primary school, is it shaping their thought 
> patterns?   Both of these stories related to teenagers;  is it 
> possible that those persons who began in middle or high school and are 
> now in their 20's or 30's did not have the thought patterns 
> installed while the brain was still so flexible--the way that learning 
> a foreign language is much easier for quite young children?   If so, 
> what will be the social consequences?
> Let's keep our eyes open for similar news stories.  I don't know 
> whether gaming is a type of sf or not--probably depends on one's 
> definition of both.  However, this type of "sf" may have quite 
> unintended consequences for the "real" world.   For a widespread story 
> about this phenomonon, cf Jason and "World of Warcraft" in the comic 
> strip.  Our local paper dropped that strip and several others a few 
> months ago, so I don't know where the story is going, but it too might 
> be worth watching.  --  Edra Bogle,   Denton, Texas
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Richard Erlich <mailto:erlichrd at muohio.edu>
>     *To:* ListServ SFRA <mailto:SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU> ; iafa
>     <mailto:iafa-l at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU>
>     *Cc:* English Literature ListServ
>     <mailto:LITERATUREFACULTY at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU> ; AlumList
>     <mailto:RDEALUM at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
>     *Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2012 9:56 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the
>     "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]
>
>     Greetings.
>
>     I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify
>     as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of
>     cyberspace/techno-world.
>     Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises
>     an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed
>     ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic
>     and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on
>     that last one.)
>
>
>     On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
>
>>     Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of
>>     games:
>>
>>     Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much
>>     anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic --
>>     to characters, situations and plot elements of computer games.  A
>>     review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic [that]
>>     requires no introduction."
>>
>>     Thought Bill: WTF?  For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet",
>>     or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of
>>     significance.  Short of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in
>>     not much time I am going to find lots of contemporary writing
>>     impenetrable because of my total ignorance of the genre.
>>
>>     That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write
>>     skillfully in English...
>>
>>     Bill
>
>     ________________________________________
>     Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
>     Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
>     IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
>     Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
>     Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>     Le Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

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From shalabare at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 22:04:46 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 22:04:46 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <1A1ABE6D-6382-4B20-8995-7139BAD30F8C@MUOhio.edu>
References: <25050307.1327768094790.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33F31D@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<2528CC4E-C928-4BE8-BF51-FFF71BFA8FC1@swcp.com>
	<E03A1BAF9923284BB5B2348D4813D75C2B927A92@EXMAIL1.drexel.edu>
	<6A44DA0E-83DD-4E3F-B664-A508786DDFA3@MUOhio.edu>
	<37AE8982-B906-4036-80BC-A0B73DE275AB@gmail.com>
	<AF099C02-9CE9-4F13-93B9-98522F6F6753@swcp.com>
	<1A1ABE6D-6382-4B20-8995-7139BAD30F8C@MUOhio.edu>
Message-ID: <4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>

Oh, Rich!  Vicious!  Although I suppose Suzy is tough enough to weather 
the freebooknotes version of her work...

AND: there is a good lesson to be learned from all this, well-argued in 
Hayden White's /Metahistory/, at the foundation of my PhD department - 
"History of Consciousness" - and I think generally misunderstood in 
Lyotard's approach to "metanarratives".  Yes, all stories are wrong, and 
especially the big ones.  But can we do without them?  No.  The lesson 
to learn - and what I'm trying to teach my students right now - is that 
stories are useful perhaps in large part because they are always wrong.  
Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and 
other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning.  
Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and 
others) and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather 
than teaching any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional, 
political, etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to 
grapple with the versions they are presented with, and how to make their 
OWN story.  It ain't easy; people still yearn for the true story, the 
right one.  And of course I have the stories I cherish and "believe", so 
it's hard not to fill in that yearning for the right story with the MY 
story, but it's a start.

remain in light,
Sha

On 1/29/2012 9:23 PM, Richard Erlich wrote:
>
> On 29/01/2012, at 16:44, Suzy Charnas wrote:
>
>> Cliff Notes publishers report that students *won't even read
>> Cliff Notes any more*.  What *are* they reading instead to get
>> the gist of what's being taught without having to study it?
>
> Maybe something like this: 
> <http://www.freebooknotes.com/summaries-analysis/the-furies/>.
>
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IAFA-L mailing list
> IAFA-L at sigcis.org
> http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l

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From Caroline.Webb at newcastle.edu.au  Sun Jan 29 23:19:27 2012
From: Caroline.Webb at newcastle.edu.au (Caroline Webb)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:19:27 +1100
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
References: <25050307.1327768094790.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33F31D@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<2528CC4E-C928-4BE8-BF51-FFF71BFA8FC1@swcp.com>
	<E03A1BAF9923284BB5B2348D4813D75C2B927A92@EXMAIL1.drexel.edu>
	<6A44DA0E-83DD-4E3F-B664-A508786DDFA3@MUOhio.edu>
	<37AE8982-B906-4036-80BC-A0B73DE275AB@gmail.com>
	<AF099C02-9CE9-4F13-93B9-98522F6F6753@swcp.com>
	<1A1ABE6D-6382-4B20-8995-7139BAD30F8C@MUOhio.edu>
	<4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F26B4FF.326E.00DF.0@newcastle.edu.au>

Rich is correct--freebooknotes and other sites (especially SparkNotes) seem to be major sources for my students.  Oh, and of course any visual version of a written text they can locate.  This can have interesting results; last semester, teaching _The Hobbit_, I read essays telling me all sorts of things about Gollum, and the ring, and the nature of elves, and even Frodo and Aragorn that don't actually show up in the novel Tolkien wrote called _The Hobbit_.
 
Re Sha's thoughts below, I'd add Jeanette Winterson's reflections on history and storytelling in the "Deuteronomy" chapter of _Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit_, in which she comments that "Very often history is a means of denying the past."  She compares her personal approach to historiography to the making of sandwiches using a variety of other people's accounts and concludes: "Here is some advice.  If you want to keep your own teeth, make your own sandwiches . . ."
 
Caroline 


>>> Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare <shalabare at gmail.com> 30/01/2012 2:04 pm >>>
Oh, Rich!  Vicious!  Although I suppose Suzy is tough enough to weather the freebooknotes version of her work...

AND: there is a good lesson to be learned from all this, well-argued in Hayden White's Metahistory, at the foundation of my PhD department - "History of Consciousness" - and I think generally misunderstood in Lyotard's approach to "metanarratives".  Yes, all stories are wrong, and especially the big ones.  But can we do without them?  No.  The lesson to learn - and what I'm trying to teach my students right now - is that stories are useful perhaps in large part because they are always wrong.  Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning.  Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and others) and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather than teaching any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional, political, etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple with the versions they are presented with, and how to make their OWN story.  It ain't easy; people still yearn for the true story, the right one.  And of course I have the stories I cherish and "believe", so it's hard not to fill in that yearning for the right story with the MY story, but it's a start.

remain in light,
Sha

On 1/29/2012 9:23 PM, Richard Erlich wrote: 



On 29/01/2012, at 16:44, Suzy Charnas wrote:




Cliff Notes publishers report that students *won't even read 

Cliff Notes any more*.  What *are* they reading instead to get
the gist of what's being taught without having to study it?  


Maybe something like this: <http://www.freebooknotes.com/summaries-analysis/the-furies/>.

Rich 

_______________________________________________
IAFA-L mailing listIAFA-L at sigcis.orghttp://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l
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From Fred.Lerner at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Jan 30 08:07:37 2012
From: Fred.Lerner at Dartmouth.EDU (Fred Lerner)
Date: 30 Jan 2012 08:07:37 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
Message-ID: <198626244@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

This phenomenon might explain a curious assignment I once found in a library school  
course syllabus. The professor had asked her students to submit a critique of  
my book "The Story of Libraries: From the Invention of Writing to the Computer  
Age", which was part of the required reading for the course, and to identify any  
serious omissions in the book.

Naturally this aroused my interest, and so I wrote to the professor to ask whether  
there was any consensus as to what I should have covered but didn't. Not to worry,  
she told me -- there weren't any serious omissions. The purpose of the assignment  
was simply to ensure that students read the entire book!

Perhaps a similar strategy could be used in science fiction classes...

Fred Lerner

From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Mon Jan 30 11:10:11 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:10:11 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <198626244@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
References: <198626244@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <86C5B244-BFB6-40EF-8140-1F0736EF8B93@ewwpi.com>

Of course, there's still the question of whether there's much point  
in trying to teach either fiction or non-fiction to people who just  
don't WANT to read.

--J.J.P.

On Jan 30, 2012, at 8:07 AM, Fred Lerner wrote:

> This phenomenon might explain a curious assignment I once found in  
> a library school course syllabus. The professor had asked her  
> students to submit a critique of my book "The Story of Libraries:  
> From the Invention of Writing to the Computer Age", which was part  
> of the required reading for the course, and to identify any serious  
> omissions in the book.
>
> Naturally this aroused my interest, and so I wrote to the professor  
> to ask whether there was any consensus as to what I should have  
> covered but didn't. Not to worry, she told me -- there weren't any  
> serious omissions. The purpose of the assignment was simply to  
> ensure that students read the entire book!
>
> Perhaps a similar strategy could be used in science fiction classes...
>
> Fred Lerner
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>


From kathleen at goonan.com  Mon Jan 30 11:54:57 2012
From: kathleen at goonan.com (Kathleen Goonan)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:54:57 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
References: <25050307.1327768094790.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33F31D@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<2528CC4E-C928-4BE8-BF51-FFF71BFA8FC1@swcp.com>
	<E03A1BAF9923284BB5B2348D4813D75C2B927A92@EXMAIL1.drexel.edu>
	<6A44DA0E-83DD-4E3F-B664-A508786DDFA3@MUOhio.edu>
	<37AE8982-B906-4036-80BC-A0B73DE275AB@gmail.com>
	<AF099C02-9CE9-4F13-93B9-98522F6F6753@swcp.com>
	<1A1ABE6D-6382-4B20-8995-7139BAD30F8C@MUOhio.edu>
	<4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120130170143.8DAAAB168C961@sigcis.org>

This is one of the points of my latest novel, This Shared 
Dream:  Memory is personal; even family narratives, which are much 
smaller and seemingly more manageable than vast tracts of 
multiply-observed "history," vary tremendously depending on who is 
telling the tale, their age, their sources, and their purpose.

At 10:04 PM 1/29/2012, Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare wrote:
>Oh, Rich! Vicious! Although I suppose Suzy is tough enough to 
>weather the freebooknotes version of her work...
>
>AND: there is a good lesson to be learned from all this, well-argued 
>in Hayden White's Metahistory, at the foundation of my PhD 
>department - "History of Consciousness" - and I think generally 
>misunderstood in Lyotard's approach to "metanarratives". Yes, all 
>stories are wrong, and especially the big ones. But can we do 
>without them? No. The lesson to learn - and what I'm trying to teach 
>my students right now - is that stories are useful perhaps in large 
>part because they are always wrong. Stories - histories included - 
>are ways to organize meaning in human and other events, but in the 
>final analysis these events HAVE no meaning. Meaning does not exist 
>in the world, it is created by humans (and others) and constantly 
>contested by them as well. This is why, rather than teaching any 
>particular version of stories - scientific, fictional, political, 
>etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple with 
>the versions they are presented with, and how to make their OWN 
>story. It ain't easy; people still yearn for the true story, the 
>right one. And of course I have the stories I cherish and "believe", 
>so it's hard not to fill in that yearning for the right story with 
>the MY story, but it's a start.
>
>remain in light,
>Sha
>
>On 1/29/2012 9:23 PM, Richard Erlich wrote:
>>
>>On 29/01/2012, at 16:44, Suzy Charnas wrote:
>>
>>>Cliff Notes publishers report that students *won't even read
>>>Cliff Notes any more*. What *are* they reading instead to get
>>>the gist of what's being taught without having to study it?
>>
>>Maybe something like this: 
>><<http://www.freebooknotes.com/summaries-analysis/the-furies/>http://www.freebooknotes.com/summaries-analysis/the-furies/>.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>IAFA-L mailing list
>><mailto:IAFA-L at sigcis.org>IAFA-L at sigcis.org
>>http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l
>
>_______________________________________________
>SFRA-L mailing list
>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l


From APett at ric.edu  Mon Jan 30 11:19:27 2012
From: APett at ric.edu (Pett, A William)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:19:27 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
References: <25050307.1327768094790.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AA7D47134D2FBF42B93D61D4DE2718A42F33F31D@fsuMBX02.frostburg.edu>
	<2528CC4E-C928-4BE8-BF51-FFF71BFA8FC1@swcp.com>
	<E03A1BAF9923284BB5B2348D4813D75C2B927A92@EXMAIL1.drexel.edu>
	<6A44DA0E-83DD-4E3F-B664-A508786DDFA3@MUOhio.edu>
	<37AE8982-B906-4036-80BC-A0B73DE275AB@gmail.com>
	<AF099C02-9CE9-4F13-93B9-98522F6F6753@swcp.com>
	<1A1ABE6D-6382-4B20-8995-7139BAD30F8C@MUOhio.edu>,
	<4F2608CE.1050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC5F362B7E0DCC45BE482D413CAF95F70189056CBFFB@mailsvr4.RICOL.EDU>

I concluded decades ago that the whole point of learning, studying, etc. is finding the half-truths that seem to work.  Truth is out of our reach and it's better to face that fact.

Bill Pett

________________________________
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare [shalabare at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:04 PM
To: iafa-l at sigcis.org; sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] [IAFA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes

Oh, Rich!  Vicious!  Although I suppose Suzy is tough enough to weather the freebooknotes version of her work...

AND: there is a good lesson to be learned from all this, well-argued in Hayden White's Metahistory, at the foundation of my PhD department - "History of Consciousness" - and I think generally misunderstood in Lyotard's approach to "metanarratives".  Yes, all stories are wrong, and especially the big ones.  But can we do without them?  No.  The lesson to learn - and what I'm trying to teach my students right now - is that stories are useful perhaps in large part because they are always wrong.  Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning.  Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and others) and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather than teaching any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional, political, etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple with the versions they are presented with, and how to make their OWN story.  It ain't easy; people still yearn for the true story, the right one.  And of course I have the stories I cherish and "believe", so it's hard not to fill in that yearning for the right story with the MY story, but it's a start.

remain in light,
Sha

On 1/29/2012 9:23 PM, Richard Erlich wrote:

On 29/01/2012, at 16:44, Suzy Charnas wrote:

Cliff Notes publishers report that students *won't even read
Cliff Notes any more*.  What *are* they reading instead to get
the gist of what's being taught without having to study it?

Maybe something like this: <http://www.freebooknotes.com/summaries-analysis/the-furies/>.

Rich


_______________________________________________
IAFA-L mailing list
IAFA-L at sigcis.org<mailto:IAFA-L at sigcis.org>
http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/iafa-l



From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Mon Jan 30 11:27:17 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:27:17 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Meta-Cliff, His Notes
In-Reply-To: <198630403@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
References: <198630403@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <96C31AC6-0989-4360-BCD8-DF81E7E5C996@ewwpi.com>

You'd expect so. But maybe they think a librarian can just twitter  
all day and not bother with any actual library work, let alone read  
any books.

--J.J.P.

On Jan 30, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Fred Lerner wrote:

> You wrote, "Of course, there's still the question of whether  
> there's much point
> in trying to teach either fiction or non-fiction to people who just  
> don't WANT
> to read."
>
> True enough -- but one would expect that people training to become  
> librarians
> would have some interest in reading...
>
> Fred
>


From pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com  Mon Jan 30 12:50:53 2012
From: pierceqfpl at ewwpi.com (John Pierce)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:50:53 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] Steampunk Redux
Message-ID: <4C36ECC6-CCC0-4909-AC53-2A9C601BA389@ewwpi.com>

Hadn't even heard of the book, let alone the movie, but a friend sent  
me the link.

http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/book.html_

--J.J.P.
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From ryantatenichols at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 14:00:59 2012
From: ryantatenichols at gmail.com (Ryan Nichols)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:00:59 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L] History and meaning making untethered to facts?
Message-ID: <CALUb53Wdvr85X8hHms6Y=5oOpXUw8HtVq6ty=yLpfeXf1pmEHA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and
> other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning.
>  Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and others)
> and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather than
> teaching any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional,
> political, etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple
> with the versions they are presented with, and how to make their OWN story.


Stories are certainly ways of organizing meaning, but, Sha, when you write
that these events have no meaning, what definition of 'meaning' are you
using? Meaning might exist in the world even if it is created by human
beings since lots of what human beings have created exists in the world,
e.g. the screen you're now looking at. I prefer my meaning tethered to the
mind-independent reality.

I don't teach students science fiction literature alone, and if I did
perhaps I would need to tell them that these stories (primarily?) function
to enable them to tell their own stories, as a means to that end. But I'm
not drawn to that pov as it strikes me as a sop to the self-indulgent. What
opportunity costs are students in the classroom paying in order to
dramatize their own lives, I wonder, and what tangible benefits do they
reap from this ability besides writing skills? I'm open to there being
considerable value in it for self-directed analysis, etc., but let's just
say that learning to tell their own stories isn't one of my major course
objectives.

Pardon (some of) my cynicism. It comes from living in LA and overhearing
half a dozen conversations at the Steve Allen Theater this weekend of
wanna-be screenwriters doing awful, indulgent projects they want to because
someone taught them that their voice matters far more than it does, or
ought to, even to them, let alone to others. Might as well recommend they
become screenwriters for season 7 of Keeping up with the Kardashians.
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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 14:32:33 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
 =?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <4F248507.50605@csulb.edu>
References: <8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
	<1327728112.49912.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<CAAF6-q9n380MjCP4Uj0dvb2_ajdmOdzY3YP17k2_B4JN_aHeRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F248507.50605@csulb.edu>
Message-ID: <1327951953.32035.YahooMailNeo@web161503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I think anything that mentions THE SINGULARITY should have a Theremin soundtrack or at least a dramatic prologue music, a la Earth and The Flying Saucers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o4fdX8gUMY





________________________________
 From: Dave Samuelson <dnsmlsn at csulb.edu>
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]
 

To my amazement, regularly in the top 10 rated tv series is The Big Bang Theory, surely a staple for many members of this list.? This series makes numerous allusions not just to sf movies and superhero comics, but also computer games, which I guess do not go over the heads of most of its viewers 

As an addicted viewer (even of reruns on some occasions), I do not
    recall many if any references to written sf, however).? I dare say
    sf has always been more (as well as less) than literature, and would
    persevere even if all novels and short stories were to disappear.? 

Back to the point, however, am I being too sanguine in assuming that
    a limmited number of video games will be/are being absorbed
    gradually into public consciousness, more or less the way all
    culture is, without causing the end of the world? it?? Y2K, Mayan
    predictions, meteor strikes, and climate change, not to mention "THE
    SINGULARITY" (although I just did) have also penetrated pop culture,
    to some extent, however accurate or inaccurate they may be.? 

Dave Samuelson


?

On 1/28/2012 6:12 AM, Nathan Rockwood wrote: 
Speaking as a designer of tabletop RPGs and a teacher of video-game design (and an avid player of all kinds of games), I can attest that there are already plenty of allusions to video games in many other forms of media. They've been there for a while, but many are simply subtle enough that those unfamiliar will miss them (such as a reference, in an episode of Leverage, to getting some 'hot coffee' alluding to the minor "hot coffee mod" involving a Grand Theft Auto video game with pornographic mini-game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod ). 
>
>Part of the reason both tabletop and video games were small
      industries was because of the image of gaming as counterculture/weird/scary/Satanic, and as that image is changing, so too is the potential audience. According to the ESA, the average video gamer these days is 35 years old, 42% of them are female (so the perceived gender imbalance is lessening), and 72% of American households play games---so it would actually be very odd if we didn't start seeing video games referenced in literature and media. I mean, that's a larger percentage of Americans with something in common than those who share a political, ideological, or religious background, in many cases.
>
>Tabletop RPGs are a much smaller niche hobby, so you aren't as
      likely to start seeing those referenced in the New York Times, but
      that may be changing as well. Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, owners
      of Dungeons and Dragons, the most popular single tabletop game,
      revamped the game a few years ago (4th edition) to be easier to
      play and appeal more widely, and are now in the process of doing
      so again. They sometimes take out TV ads, and have spawned more
      than one official movie (and dozens of fan-films). So we may
      someday see more and more references to d20s and critical hits in
      literature.
>
>Of course, this all completely ignores the books that are actually set in the franchises of video and tabletop games; Warhammer, D&D, Starcraft, Warcraft... just as with many television franchises, there are always novelizations to churn out.
>
>~Nathan Rockwood
>
>
>On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Brent Stypczynski <bstypczynski at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I suppose, using the example given, that it depends on how one defines "gaming".? 
>>
>>For two of the more common (non-gambling) definitions
                  for the term: 1) the practice of playing tabletop RPGs
                  and 2) the practice of playing video games, I'll weigh
                  in.? In the latter case, my answer is definitely.? For
                  the former, to some degree this is the case, but in a
                  much more limited and perhaps more abstract way than
                  in the case of video games (referencing tabletop RPGs,
                  I've referred to some movies--such as "The Big Hit"
                  and "Hackers"--as "gamer movies" as have some gamer
                  friends).? Insofar as tabletop gaming has influenced
                  video games (e.g. every fantasy video game ever
                  produced), both have created numerous allusions and
                  will likely continue to do so, I think, as they become
                  increasingly mainstream.
>>
>>In the case of Risk, I think a knowledge of video
                  games is completely unnecessary.? It may say something
                  that my first thought was "There are people who have
                  never heard of Risk?" (seeing as it has been a
                  reasonably to exceedingly popular strategy boardgame
                  since very soon after its 1957 introduction).
>>
>>Brent Stypczynski, Dr.
>>Columbus State Community College
>>English Department
>>bstypczynski at yahoo.com
>>bstypczy at cscc.edu 
>>
>>
>>--- On Fri, 1/27/12, Richard Erlich <erlichrd at muohio.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Greetings. 
>>>
>>>
I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world.? 
>>>Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.) 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
>>>
>>>Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 
>>>>
>>>>Either now, or otherwise in
                                          the very near future, pretty
                                          much anything I read will
                                          contain allusions -- explicit
                                          or cryptic -- to characters,
                                          situations and plot elements
                                          of computer games. ?A review
                                          of Risk 2 began with "Risk is
                                          a cult classic [that] requires
                                          no introduction."
>>>>
>>>>Thought Bill: WTF? ?For me, a
                                          dialogue fragment from
                                          "Dragnet", or from a SNL
                                          Conehead, or (best!) from
                                          "Casablanca" is full of
                                          significance. ?Short of
                                          becoming a devoted gamer (no
                                          way!), in not much time I am
                                          going to find lots of
                                          contemporary writing
                                          impenetrable because of my
                                          total ignorance of the genre.
>>>>
>>>>That is, if there are any
                                          people left with the ability
                                          to write skillfully in
                                          English...
>>>>
>>>>Bill
>>>
>>>________________________________________
>>>Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
>>>Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
>>>IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
>>>Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
>>>Wiki:?http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>>>Le Guin book:?http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>SFRA-L mailing list
>>>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>SFRA-L mailing list
>>SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>>
>>
>
>
>-- 
>"This above all, to thine own self be true,
>And it must follow, as the night the day,
>Thou canst not then be false to any man."
>? ? ? ~Hamlet, I.3.78-80
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 
_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
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From dk2244 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 14:49:32 2012
From: dk2244 at yahoo.com (Despina Kakoudaki)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
 =?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
References: <68199B05-AF12-4D25-9A67-B2CB78CA2900@gmail.com>
	<8F74494D-7DB9-44BA-BAA5-107B2ED9A998@muohio.edu>
	<71C435761EB3446A8E4C36B83AC6121F@userpc>
	<4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1327952972.7475.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

This may not be directly related, but as a side note to how videogames enter popular culture as memes or as (by now) archeological artifacts, here are some video links to the work of a Swiss artist, who recreates the styles and feel of old videogames through a? stop motion editing process and using people as pixels. If you have played these games the simulated music and visual moves will be so familiar!

Tetris:? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0LtUX_6IXY

Pacman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=M3D0JvYJkGc

Pong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWY0Q_lMFfw&feature=related

Despina



________________________________
 From: Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare <shalabare at gmail.com>
To: ListServ SFRA <SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU>; iafa <iafa-l at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU> 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]
 

I played Risk - the boardgame - a lot as a kid.? It's a stupid game.? (No social game for several players should involve the gradual elimination of players, especially not with the simplistic rules and massing of armies that Risk entails.? What are the former players supposed to do once they've been eliminated?? Risk is so stupid it's practically war itself.)
In other news, I am personally a fan of Starcraft: Brood War, a
    real-time strategy (RTS) computer game.? It is IMHO the best
    strategy game since Go, and definitely the best military sf out
    there at the moment, which I suppose really isn't saying a whole
    lot.? There is a thriving Starcraft pro-gaming scene (dominated by
    South Korea, incidentally) which has definitely contributed
    vocabulary to the general computer gaming scene and beyond.? For
    example, "to zerg" has gained general acceptance as the strategy of
    overwhelming an opponent with massive numbers of relatively weak
    units.? In Starcraft, the Zerg are an alien race loosely based on
    the Alien movies, all angular and disgusting.
Like it or not, "we" are stuck with sf games like Halo and
    Starcraft.? Indeed, the first introduction most kids have to the sf
    megatext is through these games, just as I first learned everything
    I needed to know about cyberpunk through Shadowrun - a pen-and-paper
    role-playing game - long before reading a single cyberpunk novel.
I personally think - and hope - that these military games (from RTS
    to FPS) are really just an episode, a stage in the development of a
    technology which, like Second Life, allows for ongoing and creation
    interconnection between people scattered all over the globe.? I do
    however hope that the next iteration doesn't look too much like the
    MMORPG - e.g. World of Warcraft - because those games look to me
    like consumerist labyrinths in which the only real goal is to
    acquire more (virtual) stuff and team up with people who will help
    you do it.
Just my 2 cents,
remain in light,
Sha

PS I think Edra is right that something is shifting; it may have to
    do with strategy- and cooperation-oriented online games, at least as
    much as it has to do with growing up in a very highly
    technologically-mediated environment, from which point of view many
    of the visions of early sf seem hokey.? At least Star Trek had
    communicators!

On 1/28/2012 10:34 AM, Edra Bogle wrote: 
 
>Yesterday morning, while listening to?CNN news, I was struck with two stories that seem relevant to this topic.? (I believe there have been similar news stories in the past, but it took these two together for my brain to make the connections.)?? The most striking you could hardly have missed:? the two Canadian teenagers who built a "man" out of Legos, connected it to a weather balloon, supplied it with various technology to transmit its progress, and set it off.? It went up 15 miles before the balloon burst, but returned to earth with Legoman still intact.?? The reporter said everyone was amazed at the?ability of the teens to integrate all the required technology, and for a total?cost of $400.?? The other story was about two teens who were detected shortly before they blew up their high school, but who, once again, had planned a complex series of events that might well have created?their own version of Columbine, as they said they
 desired.? Again the reporter commented on their ability to connect?disparate technological elements with very little money involved.
>?
>Is it possible that we are educating a generation that thinks on a level previously attained only at a much more advanced age and after years of military training???When a child begins playing these games?while still in primary school, is it shaping their thought patterns??? Both of these stories related to teenagers;? is it possible that those persons who?began in middle or high school and are now in their 20's or 30's did not have the thought patterns installed?while the brain was still?so flexible--the way that learning a foreign language is much easier for quite young children??? If so, what will be the social consequences?
>?
>Let's keep our eyes open for similar news stories.? I don't know whether gaming is a type of sf or not--probably depends on one's definition of both.? However, this type of "sf" may have quite unintended consequences for the "real" world.?? For a widespread story about this phenomonon, cf Jason and "World of Warcraft" in the comic strip.? Our local paper dropped that strip and several others a few months ago, so I don't know where the story is going, but it too might be worth watching.? --? Edra Bogle,? ?Denton, Texas
>?
>? 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Richard Erlich 
>>To: ListServ SFRA ; iafa 
>>Cc: English Literature ListServ ; AlumList 
>>Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:56 PM
>>Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]
>>
>>
>>Greetings.
>>
>>
I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world.? 
>>Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.) 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote:
>>
>>Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 
>>>
>>>Either now, or otherwise in the very near future,
                      pretty much anything I read will contain allusions
                      -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters,
                      situations and plot elements of computer games. ?A
                      review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult
                      classic [that] requires no introduction."
>>>
>>>Thought Bill: WTF? ?For me, a dialogue fragment
                      from "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!)
                      from "Casablanca" is full of significance. ?Short
                      of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much
                      time I am going to find lots of contemporary
                      writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance
                      of the genre.
>>>
>>>That is, if there are any people left with the
                      ability to write skillfully in English...
>>>
>>>Bill
>>
>>________________________________________
>>Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst
>>Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447
>>IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/
>>Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich
>>Wiki:?http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>>Le Guin book:?http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 

_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
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From shalabare at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 16:44:05 2012
From: shalabare at gmail.com (Sha Lar)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:44:05 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] History and meaning making untethered to facts?
In-Reply-To: <CALUb53Wdvr85X8hHms6Y=5oOpXUw8HtVq6ty=yLpfeXf1pmEHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALUb53Wdvr85X8hHms6Y=5oOpXUw8HtVq6ty=yLpfeXf1pmEHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKB1AFBej_Srx2k7bSnNCqZng7V5hVQiDBHcFeYjUfeVZkjZkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can't say I disagree with you there, Ryan, and you're right to point out
that meanings are material and are written into the infrastructures we
use.  (That's how I make sense of your point, at least.)  Otherwise, I
haven't really taught sf literature classes and I'm not really a literary
critic, so my sense of "story" here is out of touch with the real world of
teaching in those environments. (Actually, having had the unfortunate task
of teaching film theory to LA kids at UCSC, I have some sense of what
you're talking about there at the end...)
I meant to suggest that all meaning is organized in the form of stories;
facts - which are also made, more or less well - only make sense in those
stories, and the stories themselves lead us to certain interpretations of
those facts and not others.  Hailing a bit more from the world of science
studies than from literary studies, I've learned that the dualism you
invoke with the notion of "mind-independent reality" is a false one.  This
means that some accuse me of being a relativist, some of being a realist,
and some of being a solipsist, but all those interpretations are actually
based on the story that you've either got to embrace a world of
"mind-independent reality" or a world of "mind-created reality" and not
both.
The truth is not so much out there as somewhere in between.
remain in light,
Sha

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Ryan Nichols <ryantatenichols at gmail.com>wrote:

> Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and
>> other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning.
>>  Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and others)
>> and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather than
>> teaching any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional,
>> political, etc. - I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple
>> with the versions they are presented with, and how to make their OWN story.
>
>
> Stories are certainly ways of organizing meaning, but, Sha, when you write
> that these events have no meaning, what definition of 'meaning' are you
> using? Meaning might exist in the world even if it is created by human
> beings since lots of what human beings have created exists in the world,
> e.g. the screen you're now looking at. I prefer my meaning tethered to the
> mind-independent reality.
>
> I don't teach students science fiction literature alone, and if I did
> perhaps I would need to tell them that these stories (primarily?) function
> to enable them to tell their own stories, as a means to that end. But I'm
> not drawn to that pov as it strikes me as a sop to the self-indulgent. What
> opportunity costs are students in the classroom paying in order to
> dramatize their own lives, I wonder, and what tangible benefits do they
> reap from this ability besides writing skills? I'm open to there being
> considerable value in it for self-directed analysis, etc., but let's just
> say that learning to tell their own stories isn't one of my major course
> objectives.
>
> Pardon (some of) my cynicism. It comes from living in LA and overhearing
> half a dozen conversations at the Steve Allen Theater this weekend of
> wanna-be screenwriters doing awful, indulgent projects they want to because
> someone taught them that their voice matters far more than it does, or
> ought to, even to them, let alone to others. Might as well recommend they
> become screenwriters for season 7 of Keeping up with the Kardashians.
>
> _______________________________________________
> SFRA-L mailing list
> SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
>
>


-- 
-
Revolution?
I'll show you mine
if you show me yours
                              -
                             --

PhD Candidate - UCSC - History of Consciousness
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From mulcahy at rulmail.rutgers.edu  Mon Jan 30 08:49:26 2012
From: mulcahy at rulmail.rutgers.edu (Kevin Mulcahy)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:49:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
	=?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ac1fe765-cece-4f37-99a2-6e483dc46420@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>

An interesting recent book on gaming is Reality is Broken: Why Games Make Us Better and How They can change the World, by Jane McGonigal (New York: Penguin, 2011), a game designer who earned her PhD in studying games. Her argument is that games inspire us to work extremely hard, with enormous pleasure, in ways that enhance social cooperation and make learning fun. Even games that focus on blowing up the evil aliens do this to some extent, but new games are being developed that can harness imagination, social cooperation, in solving real world problems. Of course my summary is far too brief to give a sense of her complete argument, but as someone who never plays video games (bad hand eye coordination and no time or inclination), I was nonetheless impressed by her argument and her own enthusiasm . It gave me hope that the billions of hours spent gaming might actually be used for good purposes. 

Kevin 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joshua ~Sha~ LaBare" <shalabare at gmail.com> 
To: "ListServ SFRA" <SFRA-L at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU>, "iafa" <iafa-l at charlemagne.cddc.VT.EDU> 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 1:29:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE] 

I played Risk - the boardgame - a lot as a kid. It's a stupid game. (No social game for several players should involve the gradual elimination of players, especially not with the simplistic rules and massing of armies that Risk entails. What are the former players supposed to do once they've been eliminated? Risk is so stupid it's practically war itself.) 
In other news, I am personally a fan of Starcraft: Brood War, a real-time strategy (RTS) computer game. It is IMHO the best strategy game since Go, and definitely the best military sf out there at the moment, which I suppose really isn't saying a whole lot. There is a thriving Starcraft pro-gaming scene (dominated by South Korea, incidentally) which has definitely contributed vocabulary to the general computer gaming scene and beyond. For example, "to zerg" has gained general acceptance as the strategy of overwhelming an opponent with massive numbers of relatively weak units. In Starcraft, the Zerg are an alien race loosely based on the Alien movies, all angular and disgusting. 
Like it or not, "we" are stuck with sf games like Halo and Starcraft. Indeed, the first introduction most kids have to the sf megatext is through these games, just as I first learned everything I needed to know about cyberpunk through Shadowrun - a pen-and-paper role-playing game - long before reading a single cyberpunk novel. 
I personally think - and hope - that these military games (from RTS to FPS) are really just an episode, a stage in the development of a technology which, like Second Life, allows for ongoing and creation interconnection between people scattered all over the globe. I do however hope that the next iteration doesn't look too much like the MMORPG - e.g. World of Warcraft - because those games look to me like consumerist labyrinths in which the only real goal is to acquire more (virtual) stuff and team up with people who will help you do it. 
Just my 2 cents, 
remain in light, 
Sha 

PS I think Edra is right that something is shifting; it may have to do with strategy- and cooperation-oriented online games, at least as much as it has to do with growing up in a very highly technologically-mediated environment, from which point of view many of the visions of early sf seem hokey. At least Star Trek had communicators! 

On 1/28/2012 10:34 AM, Edra Bogle wrote: 


Yesterday morning, while listening to CNN news, I was struck with two stories that seem relevant to this topic. (I believe there have been similar news stories in the past, but it took these two together for my brain to make the connections.) The most striking you could hardly have missed: the two Canadian teenagers who built a "man" out of Legos, connected it to a weather balloon, supplied it with various technology to transmit its progress, and set it off. It went up 15 miles before the balloon burst, but returned to earth with Legoman still intact. The reporter said everyone was amazed at the ability of the teens to integrate all the required technology, and for a total cost of $400. The other story was about two teens who were detected shortly before they blew up their high school, but who, once again, had planned a complex series of events that might well have created their own version of Columbine, as they said they desired. Again the reporter commented on their ability to connect disparate technological elements with very little money involved. 

Is it possible that we are educating a generation that thinks on a level previously attained only at a much more advanced age and after years of military training? When a child begins playing these games while still in primary school, is it shaping their thought patterns? Both of these stories related to teenagers; is it possible that those persons who began in middle or high school and are now in their 20's or 30's did not have the thought patterns installed while the brain was still so flexible--the way that learning a foreign language is much easier for quite young children? If so, what will be the social consequences? 

Let's keep our eyes open for similar news stories. I don't know whether gaming is a type of sf or not--probably depends on one's definition of both. However, this type of "sf" may have quite unintended consequences for the "real" world. For a widespread story about this phenomonon, cf Jason and "World of Warcraft" in the comic strip. Our local paper dropped that strip and several others a few months ago, so I don't know where the story is going, but it too might be worth watching. -- Edra Bogle, Denton, Texas 


<blockquote>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Richard Erlich 
To: ListServ SFRA ; iafa 
Cc: English Literature ListServ ; AlumList 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE] 


Greetings. 

I forward an e-missive from my friend Bill, whom I will identify as an expert on encryption and familiar with other aspects of cyberspace/techno-world. 
Given the importance of allusion to creating meaning, Bill raises an interesting issue, and not just for literature narrowly viewed ? and maybe not just for allusions; there may be a gaming esthetic and/or sensibility showing up in film scripts. (OK, no "maybe" on that last one.) 






On 27/01/2012, at 19:16, Bill _____ wrote: 

<blockquote>

Just occurred to me, looking at the App Store and its zillions of games: 

Either now, or otherwise in the very near future, pretty much anything I read will contain allusions -- explicit or cryptic -- to characters, situations and plot elements of computer games. A review of Risk 2 began with "Risk is a cult classic [that] requires no introduction." 

Thought Bill: WTF? For me, a dialogue fragment from "Dragnet", or from a SNL Conehead, or (best!) from "Casablanca" is full of significance. Short of becoming a devoted gamer (no way!), in not much time I am going to find lots of contemporary writing impenetrable because of my total ignorance of the genre. 

That is, if there are any people left with the ability to write skillfully in English... 

Bill 







________________________________________ 




Richard D. Erlich, Film Script Analyst 

Port Hueneme, CA 93041-3447 
IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3887370/ 
Blog: http://open.salon.com/blog/richard_erlich 
Wiki: http://www.clockworks2.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 
L e Guin book: http://www.sfra.org/Coyote/CoyoteHome.htm 




</blockquote>


_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 
</blockquote>


_______________________________________________ 
SFRA-L mailing list 
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l 

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From helen_collins at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 30 14:13:58 2012
From: helen_collins at sbcglobal.net (Helen Collins)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:13:58 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Subject: [SFRA-L] History and meaning making untethered to facts?
References: <CALUb53Wdvr85X8hHms6Y=5oOpXUw8HtVq6ty=yLpfeXf1pmEHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F26EBF5.000010.00984@HELEN-PC>

This question is more than difficult. I have taught science ficton lit for
years, as well as "other" lit and basic writing courses.  Reading can help
writing and that is a  good side effect, of course,  but its purpose, as
with all art, is itself, not a means.     
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Ryan Nichols
Date: 1/30/2012 2:01:45 PM
To: sfra-l at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [SFRA-L] History and meaning making untethered to facts?
 
Stories - histories included - are ways to organize meaning in human and
other events, but in the final analysis these events HAVE no meaning. 
Meaning does not exist in the world, it is created by humans (and others)
and constantly contested by them as well.  This is why, rather than teaching
any particular version of stories - scientific, fictional, political, etc. -
I personally prefer to teach my students how to grapple with the versions
they are presented with, and how to make their OWN story.


Stories are certainly ways of organizing meaning, but, Sha, when you write
that these events have no meaning, what definition of 'meaning' are you
using? Meaning might exist in the world even if it is created by human
beings since lots of what human beings have created exists in the world, e.g
 the screen you're now looking at. I prefer my meaning tethered to the
mind-independent reality. 


I don't teach students science fiction literature alone, and if I did
perhaps I would need to tell them that these stories (primarily?) function
to enable them to tell their own stories, as a means to that end. But I'm
not drawn to that pov as it strikes me as a sop to the self-indulgent. What
opportunity costs are students in the classroom paying in order to dramatize
their own lives, I wonder, and what tangible benefits do they reap from this
ability besides writing skills? I'm open to there being considerable value
in it for self-directed analysis, etc., but let's just say that learning to
tell their own stories isn't one of my major course objectives. 


Pardon (some of) my cynicism. It comes from living in LA and overhearing
half a dozen conversations at the Steve Allen Theater this weekend of
wanna-be screenwriters doing awful, indulgent projects they want to because
someone taught them that their voice matters far more than it does, or ought
to, even to them, let alone to others. Might as well recommend they become
screenwriters for season 7 of Keeping up with the Kardashians. 





_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l
 
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From pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl  Mon Jan 30 22:06:03 2012
From: pawel.frelik at umcs.edu.pl (Pawel Frelik)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:06:03 -0800
Subject: [SFRA-L]
 =?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
 =?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <ac1fe765-cece-4f37-99a2-6e483dc46420@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>
References: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
	<ac1fe765-cece-4f37-99a2-6e483dc46420@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <1879858771.20120130190603@umcs.edu.pl>

KM> An interesting recent book on gaming is Reality is Broken: Why
KM> Games Make Us Better and How They can change the World, by Jane
KM> McGonigal (New York: Penguin, 2011), a game designer who earned
KM> her PhD in studying games.  Her argument is that games inspire us
KM> to work extremely hard, with enormous pleasure, in ways that
KM> enhance social cooperation and make learning fun.  Even games that
KM> focus on blowing up the evil aliens do this to some extent, but
KM> new games are being developed that can harness imagination, social
KM> cooperation, in solving real world problems.  Of course my summary
KM> is far too brief to give a sense of her complete argument, but as
KM> someone who never plays video games (bad hand eye coordination and
KM> no time or inclination), I was nonetheless impressed by her
KM> argument and her own enthusiasm.  It gave me hope that the
KM> billions of hours spent gaming might actually be used for good purposes.

it    is   indeed   a   very  interesting  book  but  McGonigal's
definition   of  "games"  is  significantly  wider  than  that of most
players.  In  many  ways,  she  suggests "gamification" (a recent term
hated  by  some  and loved by others) of everyday life. In that sense,
the   book   does   not   defend  games  as  many people know them. "In
that  department, Steven Johnson's _Everything Bad is Good for You_ is
a  more  powerful  tool,  arguing  for  cognitive  benefits of playing
"ordinary"  games,  including  the  much-maligned First Person Shooter
genre."

Also,  but  this  is  strictly  my own perspective, the entire book is
idealistically  divorced  from the material reality of playing games
as  well as of the entire gaming industry, but I suppose she wanted to
write a proselytizing book rather than a critical study.

Still, a more than worthy read.

Pawel




From ehull at harpercollege.edu  Mon Jan 30 23:04:15 2012
From: ehull at harpercollege.edu (Elizabeth Hull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:04:15 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
	=?utf-8?b?aG9hcmQiIGNhLiAyMDE0IOKAlCBSREVd?=
In-Reply-To: <1879858771.20120130190603@umcs.edu.pl>
References: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com><ac1fe765-cece-4f37-99a2-6e483dc46420@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>
	<1879858771.20120130190603@umcs.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0B713949@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>

Has the very influential Games People Play by Eric Berne been forgotten today?  The underlying essence of his neo-Freudian (but very much influenced by Behaviorism and limited to observable behavior) theory was that we play games to avoid intimacy and genuine interactions with others.  Betty Hull

-----Original Message-----
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Pawel Frelik
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:06 PM
To: Kevin Mulcahy
Cc: iafa; ListServ SFRA
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 ? RDE]

KM> An interesting recent book on gaming is Reality is Broken: Why Games 
KM> Make Us Better and How They can change the World, by Jane McGonigal 
KM> (New York: Penguin, 2011), a game designer who earned her PhD in 
KM> studying games.  Her argument is that games inspire us to work 
KM> extremely hard, with enormous pleasure, in ways that enhance social 
KM> cooperation and make learning fun.  Even games that focus on blowing 
KM> up the evil aliens do this to some extent, but new games are being 
KM> developed that can harness imagination, social cooperation, in 
KM> solving real world problems.  Of course my summary is far too brief 
KM> to give a sense of her complete argument, but as someone who never 
KM> plays video games (bad hand eye coordination and no time or 
KM> inclination), I was nonetheless impressed by her argument and her 
KM> own enthusiasm.  It gave me hope that the billions of hours spent 
KM> gaming might actually be used for good purposes.

it    is   indeed   a   very  interesting  book  but  McGonigal's
definition   of  "games"  is  significantly  wider  than  that of most
players.  In  many  ways,  she  suggests "gamification" (a recent term hated  by  some  and loved by others) of everyday life. In that sense,
the   book   does   not   defend  games  as  many people know them. "In
that  department, Steven Johnson's _Everything Bad is Good for You_ is a  more  powerful  tool,  arguing  for  cognitive  benefits of playing "ordinary"  games,  including  the  much-maligned First Person Shooter genre."

Also,  but  this  is  strictly  my own perspective, the entire book is idealistically  divorced  from the material reality of playing games as  well as of the entire gaming industry, but I suppose she wanted to write a proselytizing book rather than a critical study.

Still, a more than worthy read.

Pawel



_______________________________________________
SFRA-L mailing list
SFRA-L at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sfra-l

From fireflygm at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 06:34:33 2012
From: fireflygm at gmail.com (Nathan Rockwood)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:34:33 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?windows-1252?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?=22word-hoard=22_ca=2E_2014_=97_RDE=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0B713949@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>
References: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
	<ac1fe765-cece-4f37-99a2-6e483dc46420@zimmbox11.rutgers.edu>
	<1879858771.20120130190603@umcs.edu.pl>
	<3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0B713949@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>
Message-ID: <CAAF6-q_tj6EX3Jaqf+1k_gWqiP4jP06gxvKQL09jOBPCvjYcrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Elizabeth Hull <ehull at harpercollege.edu>wrote:

> Has the very influential Games People Play by Eric Berne been forgotten
> today?  The underlying essence of his neo-Freudian (but very much
> influenced by Behaviorism and limited to observable behavior) theory was
> that we play games to avoid intimacy and genuine interactions with others.
>  Betty Hull
>

I'd have to read that one to give it a fair shake, but considering that the
games I play include running around and hitting people with padded sticks,
deck-building card games (wherein watching for bluff and counterbluff are
part of play), and role-playing/storytelling games, I don't see much
difference between the intimacy levels of those and, say, a conversation or
debate. Especially since the RPGs tend to BE conversations, with added
fantastical elements.

What makes the gameplay "non-genuine" and "non-intimate?"

~Nathan Rockwood


> --
> "This above all, to thine own self be true,
> And it must follow, as the night the day,
> Thou canst not then be false to any man."
>       ~Hamlet, I.3.78-80
>
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From bruce.beatie at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 10:14:35 2012
From: bruce.beatie at gmail.com (Bruce A. Beatie)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:14:35 -0500
Subject: [SFRA-L] History and meaning making untethered to facts?
In-Reply-To: <4F26EBF5.000010.00984@HELEN-PC>
References: <CALUb53Wdvr85X8hHms6Y=5oOpXUw8HtVq6ty=yLpfeXf1pmEHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F26EBF5.000010.00984@HELEN-PC>
Message-ID: <CAMcWShDYtFdn0DO6vWA1Peeh1SH_4G3jaf7-yJyoQz_Y4gQ9CQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From Bruce Beatie:

     Helen Collins is right to observe that "This question [the purpose of
reading] is more than difficult."  But to answer it with the statement that
"its purpose, as with all art, is itself> is simplistic at best.  It is the
elitist view, prevalent in the last century, of "art for art's sake," the
idea that "a poem must not mean, but be."  But any work of literature, like
any work of art, has multiple purposes.  Dickens, like Shakespeare,
demonstrably wrote with the purpose, at least in part or perhaps mainly, to
earn a living.  The literature of the late 19th and early 20th century that
Northrop Frye calls "low mimetic" clearly had as one purpose the exposing
of social ills.  Hemingway, as his own and his circle's letters clearly
show, wrote both to earn a living and to satisfy a profound need for
approval.  The list can go on and on.  Moreover, as a careful reading of
any literary work, from the most popular to the most esoteric, any piece of
writing has multiple purposes, some more important to the author or reader
than others--and what is important to an author may not be what is
important to any particular reader.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Helen Collins
<helen_collins at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

>     This question is more than difficult. I have taught science ficton
> lit for years, as well as "other" lit and basic writing courses.  Reading
> can help writing and that is a  good side effect, of course,  but its
> purpose, as with all art, is itself, not a means.
>
>
>
>
>
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From ehull at harpercollege.edu  Tue Jan 31 12:12:10 2012
From: ehull at harpercollege.edu (Elizabeth Hull)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:12:10 -0600
Subject: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca.
	2014 - RDE]
References: <4F24E736.7000008@gmail.com>
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	<1879858771.20120130190603@umcs.edu.pl>
	<3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0B713949@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>
	<CAAF6-q_tj6EX3Jaqf+1k_gWqiP4jP06gxvKQL09jOBPCvjYcrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0A7B9038@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>

Nathan, the games Berne (and Thomas Harris, etc.) meant were games we play with people we commonly interact with, family, friends, workplace people (including those who we work for, those who work for us, and those on a level with us, and they are games that disguise our true feelings and motives for our behavior.  It was part of Transactional Analysis.  It's all very complex, but every game has rules that must be followed and consequences and penalties for breaking the rules and for not playing fair.  It's a whole system of behaviors that get in the way of intimacy and deep satisfaction.  I wrote my whole doctoral dissertation using Transactional Analysis to discuss all of Albee's plays.  The first chapter gives a summary that shows how TA can be helpful in understanding what is really being said and done in a play.  I also wrote an article on how TA illuminates the creative process of Isaac Asimov in The Gods Themselves.  It was in Extrapolation in the middle 70s some time.  Betty

________________________________

From: Nathan Rockwood [mailto:fireflygm at gmail.com]
Sent: Tue 1/31/2012 5:34 AM
To: Elizabeth Hull
Cc: Pawel Frelik; Kevin Mulcahy; iafa; ListServ SFRA
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 2014 - RDE]




On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Elizabeth Hull <ehull at harpercollege.edu> wrote:


	Has the very influential Games People Play by Eric Berne been forgotten today?  The underlying essence of his neo-Freudian (but very much influenced by Behaviorism and limited to observable behavior) theory was that we play games to avoid intimacy and genuine interactions with others.  Betty Hull
	

 
I'd have to read that one to give it a fair shake, but considering that the games I play include running around and hitting people with padded sticks, deck-building card games (wherein watching for bluff and counterbluff are part of play), and role-playing/storytelling games, I don't see much difference between the intimacy levels of those and, say, a conversation or debate. Especially since the RPGs tend to BE conversations, with added fantastical elements. 
 
What makes the gameplay "non-genuine" and "non-intimate?" 
 
~Nathan Rockwood
 

	-- 
	"This above all, to thine own self be true,
	And it must follow, as the night the day,
	Thou canst not then be false to any man."
	      ~Hamlet, I.3.78-80
	


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From mikerose at starband.net  Tue Jan 31 12:56:59 2012
From: mikerose at starband.net (Mike Rose)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:56:59 -0700
Subject: [SFRA-L]
	=?utf-8?q?Future_lit_=5Bgaming_allusions_in_the_=22word-?=
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	<3E7B329687F1C541A9F1251B3A2A201E0B713949@admexchs1.admdom.harpercollege.edu>
Message-ID: <DE6A164BCCAF461BA1BC63FB8EB9455F@Mike230>

In his 1938 book Homo Ludens, Johan Huizinga takes an opposite stance to 
Berne. He holds that play not only precedes culture, but is an essential 
element of most if not all cultural forms. In this sense it promotes 
intimacy and interaction with others.

M
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Rose
HC61 Box299
Glenwood
NM 88039
USA

Telephone: 575 539 2868

Alternative e-mail:-
mike.rose at duke.edu
rosemd at umdnj.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- 
From: Elizabeth Hull
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:04 PM
To: Pawel Frelik ; Kevin Mulcahy
Cc: iafa ; ListServ SFRA
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L]Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 
2014 ? RDE]

Has the very influential Games People Play by Eric Berne been forgotten 
today?  The underlying essence of his neo-Freudian (but very much influenced 
by Behaviorism and limited to observable behavior) theory was that we play 
games to avoid intimacy and genuine interactions with others.  Betty Hull

-----Original Message-----
From: sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:sfra-l-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] 
On Behalf Of Pawel Frelik
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:06 PM
To: Kevin Mulcahy
Cc: iafa; ListServ SFRA
Subject: Re: [SFRA-L] Future lit [gaming allusions in the "word-hoard" ca. 
2014 ? RDE]

KM> An interesting recent book on gaming is Reality is Broken: Why Games
KM> Make Us Better and How They can change the World, by Jane McGonigal
KM> (New York: Penguin, 2011), a game designer who earned her PhD in
KM> studying games.  Her argument is that games inspire us to work
KM> extremely hard, with enormous pleasure, in ways that enhance social
KM> cooperation and make learning fun.  Even games that focus on blowing
KM> up the evil aliens do this to some extent, but new games are being
KM> developed that can harness imagination, social cooperation, in
KM> solving real world problems.  Of course my summary is far too brief
KM> to give a sense of her complete argument, but as someone who never
KM> plays video games (bad hand eye coordination and no time or
KM> inclination), I was nonetheless impressed by her argument and her
KM> own enthusiasm.  It gave me hope that the billions of hours spent
KM> gaming might actually be used for good purposes.

it    is   indeed   a   very  interesting  book  but  McGonigal's
definition   of  "games"  is  significantly  wider  than  that of most
players.  In  many  ways,  she  suggests "gamification" (a recent term hated 
by  some  and loved by others) of everyday life. In that sense,
the   book   does   not   defend  games  as  many people know them. "In
that  department, Steven Johnson's _Everything Bad is Good for You_ is a 
more  powerful  tool,  arguing  for  cognitive  benefits of playing 
"ordinary"  games,  including  the  much-maligned First Person Shooter 
genre."

Also,  but  this  is  strictly  my own perspective, the entire book is 
idealistically  divorced  from the material reality of playing games as 
well as of the entire gaming industry, but I suppose she wanted to write a 
proselytizing book rather than a critical study.

Still, a more than worthy read.

Pawel



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