From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Feb 1 00:26:55 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:26:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <4rVul9Xy.1328068084.5177070.ahadada@gol.com> References: <4rVul9Xy.1328068084.5177070.ahadada@gol.com> Message-ID: <4F28CD1F.3000604@louisiana.edu> Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I seem touchy, it has something to do with people who don't know me making assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct from the people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've known a dozen editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. Warmly, and in friendship, Jerry On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. > > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, > libraries, etc. > > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an > audience--either immediate or deferred. > > Jess > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 07:26:39 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:26:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <4F28CD1F.3000604@louisiana.edu> References: <4rVul9Xy.1328068084.5177070.ahadada@gol.com> <4F28CD1F.3000604@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Agreed on the following: 1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do > with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having > internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized > a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to > make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't > really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I > wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is > now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak > for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and > points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, > though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm > perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as > soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I > seem touchy, it has something to do with people who don't know me making > assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that > I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of > Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct > from the people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who > promoted themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when > I worked in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the > academy, despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in > it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my > socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other > places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor > fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions > and institutions. I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck > a nerve. Though I've known a dozen editors with filthy manners and vicious, > self-centered ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing > from that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've made > of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. > > Warmly, and in friendship, > > Jerry > > > On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: > > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. > > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, > libraries, etc. > > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an > audience--either immediate or deferred. > > Jess > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506jlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 09:20:38 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:20:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] without definition In-Reply-To: <8CEADB9DE604FD8-1DB8-1829B@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAC323D94EE7A-185C-ECDF@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com><275AB664-290F-4E36-B3 D9-29AC26BC42A3@gmail.com><8CEACE9EB613858-1948-FCE8@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com><1AD71A82F6AF4A4697EDCF1BFCBDC055@BobHP><325658F0-69F9-4B8C-8D75-CB0C68D02392@mikesnider.org><2C1FE934-8EE1-4010-9B8A-E033B7FBDD82@mi kesnider.org><4F26EB91.3010107@louisiana.edu><5A70557C3F2243A89060896317C49DE8@BobHP> <8CEADB9DE604FD8-1DB8-1829B@webmail-m028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9731E2EC607C4187A64C873FA7E5C082@BobHP> From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:58 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] without definition I see no reason for calling my work poetry except that there is no other category in which to put it. ?Marianne Moore, National Book Award acceptance speech(1952) Exactly. Which is why I say the same thing about visual poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 14:17:14 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:17:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <4rVul9Xy.1328068084.5177070.ahadada@gol.com> Message-ID: <1328123834.36137.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> his lawyer must have helped him write -- ? "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more accurately "worlds"].? Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, libraries, etc. --- On Tue, 1/31/12, ahadada at gol.com wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 10:48 PM Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative.? This encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry.? "...art [read poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more accurately "worlds"].? Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, libraries, etc. The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges on the larger concept of individual free will.? If it is true, as contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an audience--either immediate or deferred. Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 14:21:58 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:21:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <4F28CD1F.3000604@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1328124118.66549.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email." ? ... have felt the same many times. --- On Wed, 2/1/12, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I seem touchy, it has something to do with people who don't know me making assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct from the people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've known a dozen editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. Warmly, and in friendship, Jerry On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, libraries, etc. The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an audience--either immediate or deferred. Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 14:27:35 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:27:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] without definition In-Reply-To: <9731E2EC607C4187A64C873FA7E5C082@BobHP> Message-ID: <1328124455.32995.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> But you don't say the same thing about prose poems. They're in a venacular belonging to a type of poetry that wants to consider prose. --- On Wed, 2/1/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] without definition To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 9:20 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:58 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] without definition ? I see no reason for calling my work poetry except that there is no other category in which to put it. ?Marianne Moore, National Book Award acceptance speech(1952) Exactly.? Which is why I say the same thing about visual poetry. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 14:57:20 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:57:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson Message-ID: and his February update on the latest in poetry: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/february-2012-contemporar_b_1247340.html?utm_source=Alert-blogger&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email%2BNotifications -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 15:53:05 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 15:53:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] without definition In-Reply-To: <1328124455.32995.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1328124455.32995.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20A3CD9DFD804997A3DFD4D490E9C993@BobHP> But you don't say the same thing about prose poems. They're in a vernacular belonging to a type of poetry that wants to consider prose. There is an obvious category to put such texts into. I use the word, ?prose,? for it. I put it, too, in a sub-category of prose I call, ?evocature.? Or you could put it in a sub-category called, ?poetic prose.? You can?t put it in a category called, ?poetry,? if you are going by my poetics, because these texts are not lineated nor do they contain a significant number of what I call flow-breaks. The reason it makes sense to call these texts prose is not to demean them, but to make it possible to distinguish prose from poetry. There would be no objective way to distinguish what I?m now writing from poetry if we allow prose poems to count as poems. Of course, it?s just my subjective view that communication is easier if you taxonomize things?that is, if you break up the members of huge groups into smaller groups. Literary writings into prose and poetry. Consider dolphins. They count as mammals in standard biological taxonomies. Why? Because of a single identifying characteristic that they share with all other mammals and which objectively distinguishes them from all fish?even though they share the majority of their characteristics with fish and not with mammals. I?m aware that there are more than one reason for the way dolphins are taxonimized have to do with their genealogy. But a big reason for it is that it makes classification wholly objective. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 16:02:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:02:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <1328124118.66549.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1328124118.66549.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think the bottom line is that there are many kinds of definitions, so a person writing seriously about poetry will have to say what definition he?s going by, not simply assume some definition is THE definition. So we have the moron definition, which is poetry is anything anyone says it is; my verosophical, and therefore maximally objective definition for those who want that (which excludes poets); the halfwit definition which is that poetry is something you can talk about as poetry but which has no definition (for people like those who say poetry cannot be defined yet say my mathemaku are not poems); and the middle-of-the-road commonest definition which says a poem probably has a few identifiable characteristics but, gosh, it?s hard to pin it down. --Bob From: stephen russell Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 2:21 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is "If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email." ... have felt the same many times. --- On Wed, 2/1/12, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I seem touchy, it has something to do with people who don't know me making assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct from the people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've known a dozen editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. Warmly, and in friendship, Jerry On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, libraries, etc. The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an audience--either immediate or deferred. Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 16:35:26 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:35:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <4F28ACEC.2090103@louisiana.edu> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4F28ACEC.2090103@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1328132126.25214.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Jerry, I am happy with recommendations of new poems, unpublished poems (that folks are willing to share), and published work. ?Thanks for any suggestions. Best, Amy ? ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire? Amy, are you looking for new poems (for an anthology or something?) or recommendations of published ekphrastic poems? Best, Jerry On 1/31/2012 7:40 PM, amy king wrote: I have many but would appreciate more!? Poem recommendations strictly or loosely based on the "Ekphrasis" concept? > > >Thanks in advance, > > >Amy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 16:35:26 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:35:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <4F28ACEC.2090103@louisiana.edu> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4F28ACEC.2090103@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1328132126.25214.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Jerry, I am happy with recommendations of new poems, unpublished poems (that folks are willing to share), and published work. ?Thanks for any suggestions. Best, Amy ? ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire? Amy, are you looking for new poems (for an anthology or something?) or recommendations of published ekphrastic poems? Best, Jerry On 1/31/2012 7:40 PM, amy king wrote: I have many but would appreciate more!? Poem recommendations strictly or loosely based on the "Ekphrasis" concept? > > >Thanks in advance, > > >Amy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 16:39:46 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:39:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of third-rate poetry. --Bob From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 2:57 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson and his February update on the latest in poetry: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/february-2012-contemporar_b_1247340.html?utm_source=Alert-blogger&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email%2BNotifications -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Feb 1 16:57:46 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:57:46 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman wrote: > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > third-rate poetry. I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone else? I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying to be productive. c -- Chris Lott From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 17:03:28 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:03:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gotta go with Bob on this one. On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman > wrote: > > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > > third-rate poetry. > > I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts > like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone > else? > > I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an > alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could > read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are > posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying > to be productive. > > c > -- > Chris Lott > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 17:21:37 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:21:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1328134897.48545.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Really, if the lower orders don?t set us a good example, what on earth is the use of them?" - O Wilde ? ?? Good luck with this futile, Sisyphean engagement, Chris. ?I prefer to filter his 'declarations' straight to the Trash folder. ? Best, Amy ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman wrote: > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > third-rate poetry. I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone else? I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying to be productive. c -- Chris Lott _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 17:25:47 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:25:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?_Also_today=2C_the_passing_of_Wis=C5=82awa?= =?utf-8?q?_Szymborska=2C_1923-2012?= Message-ID: <1328135147.19859.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2012/02/a-sad-day-wislawa-szymborska-1923-2012/? ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 17:23:33 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:23:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Painter and Poet, Dorothea Tanning, Surrealist Painter and Poet, Dies at 101 Message-ID: <1328135013.89489.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Article here -- ?http://www.galleristny.com/2012/02/dorothea-tanning-surrealist-painter-and-poet-dies-at-101/ "Art has always been the raft onto which we climb to save our sanity. I don?t see a different purpose for it now."? "To my surprise, I have come to like being old. You can do what you want."? http://www.salon.com/2002/02/11/tanning/? Best, Amy "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 17:32:50 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:32:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Jan. 31, 2012 - Poet Morgan Lucas Schuldt passed away Message-ID: <1328135570.52201.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Memento Mori ? http://www.foumagazine.net/19.html? http://thediagram.com/6_3/schuldt.html? ?Writer Morgan Schuldt: a champion for the power of language http://radio.azpm.org/azspotlight/podcasts/2010/8/6/70-meet-writer-morgan-schuldt-a-champion-for-the-power-of-language/? http://www.coconutpoetry.org/schuldt1.htm? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 1 17:56:27 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:56:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska dies at 88 Message-ID: <8CEAF4BDD1A90BC-20B0-5AF3@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2012/02/01/polands_1996_nobel_poet_szymborska_dies_at_88/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 18:02:21 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:02:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What Chris said. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman > wrote: > > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > > third-rate poetry. > > I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts > like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone > else? > > I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an > alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could > read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are > posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying > to be productive. > > c > -- > Chris Lott > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Feb 1 18:03:38 2012 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:03:38 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jan. 31, 2012 - Poet Morgan Lucas Schuldt passed away In-Reply-To: <1328135570.52201.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328135570.52201.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm feeling a little momento mori myself--three poets I know in one day. I think I need a drink-- BTW been enjoying your posted poems Amy! Sheila Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:32:50 -0800 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Jan. 31, 2012 - Poet Morgan Lucas Schuldt passed away Memento Mori http://www.foumagazine.net/19.html http://thediagram.com/6_3/schuldt.html Writer Morgan Schuldt: a champion for the power of languagehttp://radio.azpm.org/azspotlight/podcasts/2010/8/6/70-meet-writer-morgan-schuldt-a-champion-for-the-power-of-language/ http://www.coconutpoetry.org/schuldt1.htm "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 1 18:12:40 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:12:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> Do you have this one? Szymborska poem "Two Monkeys by Brueghel" http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/szymborska.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion group Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 3:28 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? I have many but would appreciate more! Poem recommendations strictly or loosely based on the "Ekphrasis" concept? Thanks in advance, Amy From: "jforjames http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Feb 1 18:27:36 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 17:27:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> I tend to treat the idea of ekphrasis pretty loosely, Amy, so I don't know how much use I'll be. To give an idea, I think of Ashbery's _Girls on the Run_ (loosely based of Darger's stuff) and Edward Fields's _Variety Photoplays_ (responding to various movies) as ekphrastic--neither of them really describes works of art--they respond to them, follow their leads, play off their dynamics. Older poems I'd recommend (with the same caveat) are Keats's "Ode on a Grecian Urn" and Rilke's "Archaic Torso of Apollo." I vaguely remember a beautiful Jerome Rothenberg piece on a Japanese painting--I'll have to track it down for you. And I have foggy but fond recollections of John Logan's poems about sculptures, either in _The Anonymous Lover_ or _The Zigzag Walk_. I may still have that somewhere, and if I do, I'll get back to you. I'll also forward your request to a poet here in Lafayette, Denise Rogers, who is very dedicated to ekphrasis in a much more direct way than I. And I'll back-channel you a couple of my poems that I've always thought of as ekphrastic, though it may be a stretch by any sensible person's measure. All best, Jerry On 2/1/2012 5:12 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Do you have this one? > Szymborska poem "Two Monkeys by Brueghel" > > http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/szymborska.html > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion > group > Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 3:28 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? > > I have many but would appreciate more! Poem recommendations strictly > or loosely based on the "Ekphrasis" concept? > > Thanks in advance, > > Amy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames > THE HORIZONTAL LINE (HOMAGE TO AGNES MARTIN) > http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html > > > > > "Amy King's poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the > 'natural' world ..." > --John Ashbery ( > http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 1 18:31:48 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:31:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Dorothea Tanning 101 Message-ID: <8CEAF50CD45F6FF-1754-7B6E@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Dear S, Link below to Dorothea Tanning obit. Love, J http://www.galleristny.com/2012/02/dorothea-tanning-surrealist-painter-and-poet-dies-at-101/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 21:00:05 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:00:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> I keep asking why is saying this is good better than saying this is bad? I say the latter when I feel justified in saying it to raise the morale of those who feel as beaten by the poetic establishment as I am. So they'll know not everyone goes along with the status quo. --Bob -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:57 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman wrote: > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > third-rate poetry. I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone else? I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying to be productive. c -- Chris Lott _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From theoldmole at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 21:07:30 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:07:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <090CB73D-2D4B-494C-BA84-470B2B7E42EF@gmail.com> Donald Justice -- "On a Painting by Patient B..." I have a sort of fictional emphasis - a poem about a painting that doesn't really exist. Would that work for you? Sent from my iPad On Feb 1, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I tend to treat the idea of ekphrasis pretty loosely, Amy, so I don't know how much use I'll be. To give an idea, I think of Ashbery's _Girls on the Run_ (loosely based of Darger's stuff) and Edward Fields's _Variety Photoplays_ (responding to various movies) as ekphrastic--neither of them really describes works of art--they respond to them, follow their leads, play off their dynamics. Older poems I'd recommend (with the same caveat) are Keats's "Ode on a Grecian Urn" and Rilke's "Archaic Torso of Apollo." I vaguely remember a beautiful Jerome Rothenberg piece on a Japanese painting--I'll have to track it down for you. And I have foggy but fond recollections of John Logan's poems about sculptures, either in _The Anonymous Lover_ or _The Zigzag Walk_. I may still have that somewhere, and if I do, I'll get back to you. I'll also forward your request to a poet here in Lafayette, Denise Rogers, who is very dedicated to ekphrasis in a much more direct way than I. > > And I'll back-channel you a couple of my poems that I've always thought of as ekphrastic, though it may be a stretch by any sensible person's measure. > > All best, > > Jerry > > On 2/1/2012 5:12 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> Do you have this one? >> Szymborska poem "Two Monkeys by Brueghel" >> >> http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/szymborska.html >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: amy king >> To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion group >> Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 3:28 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? >> >> I have many but would appreciate more! Poem recommendations strictly or loosely based on the "Ekphrasis" concept? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Amy >> >> From: "jforjames >> >> >> >> http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html >> >> >> >> >> >> "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." >> --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506 > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 1 21:14:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:14:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying to be productive. c You don?t really think I never do that, do you, Chris? But it?s hard. I haven?t recently been to any poetry site I would want to recommend to anyone. Admittedly, I don?t have time to do much lurking. As for me and Seth, he?s been on my enemies of poetry list for quite a while, so it?s hard for me not to zap him when one of his columns comes up in discussion. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu Wed Feb 1 21:30:36 2012 From: richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu (Wilsnack, Richard) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:30:36 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekphrasis? Message-ID: This may show my naivete, but is there some reason why no one has mentioned Auden's "Musee de Beaux Arts"? Or has that been cited already? Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Feb 1 22:30:21 2012 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 22:30:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? Message-ID: <8666.71c3ff36.3c5b5d4c@cs.com> Wilbur has several, some of them in a general way (artist instead of individual work). If you run short, remind me and I'll make up a list. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Feb 2 00:08:43 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:08:43 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> References: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman wrote: > I keep asking why is saying this is good better than saying this is bad? ?I > say the latter when I feel justified in saying it to raise the morale of > those who feel as beaten by the poetic establishment as I am. ?So they'll > know not everyone goes along with the status quo. Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this list. c From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 03:47:56 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:47:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dorothea Tanning 101 In-Reply-To: <8CEAF50CD45F6FF-1754-7B6E@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAF50CD45F6FF-1754-7B6E@webmail-m155.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Very interesting work, thank you: http://www.tendreams.org/tanning.htm On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 12:31 AM, wrote: > Dear S, > Link below to Dorothea Tanning obit. > Love, J > > > http://www.galleristny.com/2012/02/dorothea-tanning-surrealist-painter-and-poet-dies-at-101/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 03:51:47 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:51:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] homage to Agnes Martin In-Reply-To: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This is also an excellent poem, had I had the right words I could have written it: [image: Edward Hirsch] [image: LAY BACK THE DARKNESS] My father in the night shuffling from room to room on an obscure mission through the hallway. Help me, spirits, to penetrate his dream and ease his restless passage. Lay back the darkness for a salesman who could charm everything but the shadows, an immigrant who stands on the threshold of a vast night without his walker or his cane and cannot remember what he meant to say, though his right arm is raised, as if in prophecy, while his left shakes uselessly in warning. My father in the night shuffling from room to room is no longer a father or a husband or a son, but a boy standing on the edge of a forest listening to the distant cry of wolves, to wild dogs, to primitive wingbeats shuddering in the treetops. On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:59 AM, wrote: > > [image: THE HORIZONTAL LINE (HOMAGE TO AGNES MARTIN)] > > http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 06:22:41 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 06:22:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman wrote: > I keep asking why is saying this is good better than saying this is bad? I > say the latter when I feel justified in saying it to raise the morale of > those who feel as beaten by the poetic establishment as I am. So they'll > know not everyone goes along with the status quo. Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this list. c Thank goodness. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Thu Feb 2 07:44:56 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:44:56 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anything We Say It Is Message-ID: For Jerry, and others--I think the visual arts are about 50 years ahead of literature--maybe more. A walk through the Tate Modern or MOMA illustrates exactly the "cultural space" that contemporary poetry inhabits. I enjoy the Beuys Room at the Tate--particularly in the summer heat when all of the expensive fat/felt art fills that part of the museum with an expensive reek that seems to call for bushels of quick lime more than the subtlest of commentaries. In addition, why would post-it notes on a crudely framed section of the Tate Modern's wall be worth gazing at, let alone the 10 thousand pound price tag? But to return to poetry: My friend Lew Turco would be able to give a "definitive" answer to what poetry is, as would John Hollander, X.J. Kennedy and others, and of course Roman Jacobson--whose definition as presented by Jerry in an earlier posting is one that I particularly liked as a student. In truth all definitions are equally correct and all are equally incorrect, except for the final "social" definition which is that contemporary poetry reflects the context in which it's produced and consumed. We require the intention of the poet(or maybe not), and a kind of agreement tacit, or otherwise, that what is happening is the condition of poetry. I would say, once again, that there is a presiding paradigm (echoing Kuhn here but for a totally different cause--also please take a look at Poggioli's The Theory of the Avant garde, which in a strange way duplicates amplifies and seems even to anatomize Kuhn), and that paradigm is that poetry is anything we say it is. Gradations of value may be projected or ascribed as per the given context of the poetic act or artifact, but ultimately there is only intention and consumption within a context, and if indeed free will does not exist, then there is only the illusion of intention, and context is all. Jess From ahadada at gol.com Thu Feb 2 08:05:06 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 13:05:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality Message-ID: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z "liminal" form. In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem for this post-post-post modern paradigm. Bob, and others, how could it not be? Jess From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 09:34:11 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 06:34:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] homage to Agnes Martin In-Reply-To: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Do you think he's referring to his own process of revision here as well? Definitely helps me see Agnes Martin with more generosity. On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 4:59 PM, wrote: > > [image: THE HORIZONTAL LINE (HOMAGE TO AGNES MARTIN)] > > http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 10:08:48 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:08:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Truck driver for February seeking contributions In-Reply-To: <20120202142911.LPX49.11248.root@hrndva-web03-z01> References: <20120202142911.LPX49.11248.root@hrndva-web03-z01> Message-ID: Wind-swept hair, the vast open road, infinite possibility. Poets (like truckers)... they're the backbone of our economy. What I'd like to do for my stint in the driver's seat of TRUCK for the month of February... is to step away from the stereotypes of (truck driving) and poetics... We all have an idea of what a truck driver's like, what a poet's like... but I'll bet there's so much more. Everyone has the idea of a big, overweight, burly poet who'd really rough and raw, but I'm here to invite one and all within the tri-state area reach and beyond to climb up into the cab and prove that's not the case. I'm betting that many of you just wanted to be poets. You wanted the freedom. Or you lost your way and didn't know what else to do. I read a recent survey that said a shortage of poets suggests an improving economy. But back years ago, when many of us hit the road, poets made up one of the largest occupations in the world. there were millions and millions of us. That's a lot of poets in mobile purgatory--a lot of people many others might never really see, except maybe through their rear-view mirror. I invite you to add to this picture of poet culture. Our task is before us-- to portray "the integrity" of the poetic life. Please send me something I can post. Help me ease the hours on end of driving toward nothing in the middle of nowhere. I want to read a lot of poetry. Thanks. G. E. Schwartz (leaving the light on for you) gejs1 at rochester.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 10:21:24 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:21:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekphrasis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEAFD575530824-1954-8DB7@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> That's one of my favorites. Particularly love the opening "About suffering they were never wrong, the Old Masters..." and that ending with ship sailing away in the distance. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Wilsnack, Richard To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 9:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekphrasis? This may show my naivete, but is there some reason why no one has mentioned Auden's "Musee de Beaux Arts"? Or has that been cited already? Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 10:27:26 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:27:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] homage to Agnes Martin In-Reply-To: References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'll bet some of those words could be changed and it would still seem excellent. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is also an excellent poem, had I had the right words I could have > written it: > > [image: Edward Hirsch] > > [image: LAY BACK THE DARKNESS] > > My father in the night shuffling from room to room > on an obscure mission through the hallway. > > Help me, spirits, to penetrate his dream > and ease his restless passage. > > Lay back the darkness for a salesman > who could charm everything but the shadows, > > an immigrant who stands on the threshold > of a vast night > > without his walker or his cane > and cannot remember what he meant to say, > > though his right arm is raised, as if in prophecy, > while his left shakes uselessly in warning. > > My father in the night shuffling from room to room > is no longer a father or a husband or a son, > > but a boy standing on the edge of a forest > listening to the distant cry of wolves, > > to wild dogs, > to primitive wingbeats shuddering in the treetops. > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:59 AM, wrote: > >> >> [image: THE HORIZONTAL LINE (HOMAGE TO AGNES MARTIN)] >> >> http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0403/hirsch/hirsch_poems.html >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Feb 2 11:28:50 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 07:28:50 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> Message-ID: > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman > wrote: > > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this list. > > Thank goodness. > In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that just keeps on giving. c From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 13:11:14 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:11:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> References: <8227BD5D2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> Message-ID: <8CEAFED2EF3157E-1954-A456@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> Bob Grumman the Don Quixote, the Robin Hood, the Joan of Arc of literary criticism. I'm seeing years of those one-liners now as lances, arrows...launched against 'the establishment beast' on behalf all poetry's underdogs whomever and wherever they may be. I'm sorry, Bob,if I ever misunderstood the noble nature of your undertaking. Fight on, for all of us. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bob grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 9:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson I keep asking why is saying this is good better than saying this is bad? I say the latter when I feel justified in saying it to raise the morale of those who feel as beaten by the poetic establishment as I am. So they'll know not everyone goes along with the status quo. --Bob -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:57 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:39 PM, bob grumman wrote: > The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism of > third-rate poetry. I have to admit that I'm totally baffled as to what you hope posts like this will achieve. Are they meant to mean anything to anyone else? I, at least, would be likely to look at something you posed as an alternative (you know, say something like "Here's something you could read instead), rather than mere dumping on people who obviously are posting something they *do* recommend, in a spirit of at least trying to be productive. c -- Chris Lott _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 13:12:31 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:12:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality In-Reply-To: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> References: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> Message-ID: <8FCAADD2BAE24D7C8765D47F240425F2@BobHP> -----Original Message----- From: ahadada at gol.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:05 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z "liminal" form. In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem for this post-post-post modern paradigm. Bob, and others, how could it not be? Jess It indeed is for morons, Jess--but not for verosophers (i.e., for serious seekers of significant objective truths). I don't, by the way, have any idea of how "liminal" fits into this discussion. Nor, really, have I much of an idea what you're otherwise talking about. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 13:29:53 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:29:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality In-Reply-To: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> References: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> Message-ID: <63A6EA6530F843848C5310E444C5872A@BobHP> I don't even know whether you're being sarcastic, Jess. --Bob -----Original Message----- From: ahadada at gol.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:05 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z "liminal" form. In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem for this post-post-post modern paradigm. Bob, and others, how could it not be? Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 2 13:38:53 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:38:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality In-Reply-To: <8FCAADD2BAE24D7C8765D47F240425F2@BobHP> References: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> <8FCAADD2BAE24D7C8765D47F240425F2@BobHP> Message-ID: <22B58912-F071-46FF-A6B2-2745FA3CF2E8@mikesnider.org> Bob, One more "moron" or "imbecile" or anything resembling such and you're in my killfile, too. Your occasional genuine intellectual provocations are not worth this crap. Hoping for the best of you and from you. Mike On Feb 2, 2012, at 13:12, "bob grumman" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- From: ahadada at gol.com > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:05 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality > > Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that > visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, > poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called > "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that > "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z > "liminal" form. In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is > the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, > (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem > for this post-post-post modern paradigm. Bob, and others, how could it > not be? > > Jess > > It indeed is for morons, Jess--but not for verosophers (i.e., for serious seekers of significant objective truths). > > I don't, by the way, have any idea of how "liminal" fits into this discussion. Nor, really, have I much of an idea what you're otherwise talking about. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 13:52:21 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:52:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekphrasis? In-Reply-To: <8CEAFD575530824-1954-8DB7@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAFD575530824-1954-8DB7@webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1328208741.29568.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thank you, Richard (and James) - noted!? Best, Amy ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" That's one of my favorites. Particularly love the opening "About suffering they were never wrong, the Old Masters..." and that ending with ship sailing away in the distance. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Wilsnack, Richard This may show my naivete, but is there some reason why no one has mentioned Auden's "Musee de Beaux Arts"? Or has that been cited already? ? Richard W. Wilsnack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 13:55:44 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:55:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <8666.71c3ff36.3c5b5d4c@cs.com> References: <8666.71c3ff36.3c5b5d4c@cs.com> Message-ID: <1328208944.26254.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I very well may take you up on that offer down the road, Sam.? Thank you~ ________________________________ From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" Wilbur has several, some of them in a general way (artist instead of individual work).? If you run short, remind me and I'll make up a list. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 13:58:03 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <090CB73D-2D4B-494C-BA84-470B2B7E42EF@gmail.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> <090CB73D-2D4B-494C-BA84-470B2B7E42EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1328209083.99511.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Please do send the fictitious ekphrasis, Tad!? ________________________________ From: Tad Richards Donald Justice -- "On a Painting by Patient B..." I have a sort of fictional emphasis - a poem about a painting that doesn't really exist. Would that work for you? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Feb 2 14:02:04 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:02:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality Message-ID: <12583192.1328209324796.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> No more ad homina from or about anybody would be nice. No matter who started it. -----Original Message----- >From: Michael Snider >Sent: Feb 2, 2012 1:38 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality > >Bob, > >One more "moron" or "imbecile" or anything resembling such and you're in my killfile, too. Your occasional genuine intellectual provocations are not worth this crap. > >Hoping for the best of you and from you. > >Mike > >On Feb 2, 2012, at 13:12, "bob grumman" wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: ahadada at gol.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:05 AM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categoriesand no liminality >> >> Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that >> visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, >> poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called >> "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that >> "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z >> "liminal" form. In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is >> the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, >> (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem >> for this post-post-post modern paradigm. Bob, and others, how could it >> not be? >> >> Jess >> >> It indeed is for morons, Jess--but not for verosophers (i.e., for serious seekers of significant objective truths). >> >> I don't, by the way, have any idea of how "liminal" fits into this discussion. Nor, really, have I much of an idea what you're otherwise talking about. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 14:10:40 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:10:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1328209840.32384.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thank you, Jerry - I have a couple of these and am adding your suggestions.? Please do send your poems backchannel, if you haven't already (wading through a full box here) - I appreciate yours and everyone's suggestions!? Including 'strange' variations on what ekphrasis means - I'm interested in the lot.? Best, Amy ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire I tend to treat the idea of ekphrasis pretty loosely, Amy, so I don't know how much use I'll be. To give an idea, I think of Ashbery's _Girls on the Run_ (loosely based of Darger's stuff) and Edward Fields's _Variety Photoplays_ (responding to various movies) as ekphrastic--neither of them really describes works of art--they respond to them, follow their leads, play off their dynamics. Older poems I'd recommend (with the same caveat) are Keats's "Ode on a Grecian Urn" and Rilke's "Archaic Torso of Apollo." I vaguely remember a beautiful Jerome Rothenberg piece on a Japanese painting--I'll have to track it down for you. And I have foggy but fond recollections of John Logan's poems about sculptures, either in _The Anonymous Lover_ or _The Zigzag Walk_. I may still have that somewhere, and if I do, I'll get back to you. I'll also forward your request to a poet here in Lafayette, Denise Rogers, who is very dedicated to ekphrasis in a much more direct way than I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 2 14:13:35 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:13:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328209083.99511.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> <4F29CA68.5050904@louisiana.edu> <090CB73D-2D4B-494C-BA84-470B2B7E42EF@gmail.com> <1328209083.99511.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78297E1D-C9A6-4442-92B8-719794FB098E@mikesnider.org> I've got a sonnet about playing in the house band for an Open Mic ... From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 14:08:24 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:08:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1328209704.21246.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I do now - thanks! ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" Do you have this one? Szymborska poem "Two Monkeys by Brueghel" http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/szymborska.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 14:07:56 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:07:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Jan. 31, 2012 - Poet Morgan Lucas Schuldt passed away In-Reply-To: References: <1328135570.52201.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328209676.32418.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks much, Sheila! ________________________________ From: sheila black I'm feeling a little momento mori myself--three poets I know in one day. I think I need a drink-- BTW been enjoying your posted poems Amy! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 14:29:29 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:29:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] TONIGHT: Groundhog Day - Feb. 2nd @ 7 p.m. in Brooklyn Message-ID: <1328210969.41732.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Que(e)ry and WORD present Saeed Jones with Metta Sama & Amy King Thursday, February 2nd @ 7 p.m. WORD 126 Franklin Street, Brooklyn, NY 11222 G to Greenpoint Avenue L to Bedford Avenue B62 to Greenpoint Avenue Pushcart Prize Nominee Saeed Jones presents his new chapbook When the Only Light is Fire. His poetry has appeared in Hayden's Ferry Review, StorySouth, Jubilat, and many others. He is also a monthly columnist for Lambda Literary and contributing writer for Union Station Magazine, and his blog For Southern Boys Who Consider Poetry is dedicated to emerging queer poets of color. Co-presented by Que(e)ry, an organization of librarians which celebrates the diverse representations and contributions of queer people in the cultural record. Metta S?ma is author of Where Ghosts Camp (forthcoming YesYes B??ks 2012). Her poems and book reviews have been published or forthcoming in Blackbird, Crab Orchard Review, Drunken Boat, Diner, Esque, hercircle, Paterson Literary Review, Verse, Vinyl, Zone 3, among others. She is the fiction editor of ragazine. Amy King's latest, I Want to Make You Safe, was just released by Litmus Press, at the end of 2011. She is currently preparing a book of interviews with the poet, Ron Padgett, co-edited Poets for Living Waters with Heidi Lynn Staples and currently edits Esque Magazine with Ana Bozicevic. She also teaches English and Creative Writing at SUNY Nassau Community College. Amy founded and curated, from 2006, the Brooklyn-based reading series, The Stain of Poetry, until 2010. Visit her current site at amyking.org. ? MAP- https://www.facebook.com/events/117129071740445/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Thu Feb 2 14:38:28 2012 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 12:38:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it sounds like creeley would prefer the company of the disenfranchised. : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM > > > > Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I seem touchy, > it has something to do with people who don't know me making assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct from the people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've known a dozen > editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. > > Warmly, and in friendship, > > Jerry > > On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. > > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, > libraries, etc. > > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an > audience--either immediate or deferred. > > Jess > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506 > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 15:50:02 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 15:50:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: <8227BD5D 2FD341939CB5E92BF7459962@BobHP> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:28 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman > wrote: > > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this list. > > Thank goodness. > In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that just keeps on giving. c I don?t think my not having my finger on the list?s pulse necessarily means no one reads my posts. Some people, even here, are intelligent enough to like, at least occasionally, to hear from people who disagree with them as well as from those who agree with them. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 15:58:20 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 15:58:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping ofcategoriesand no liminality In-Reply-To: <22B58912-F071-46FF-A6B2-2745FA3CF2E8@mikesnider.org> References: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com><8FCAADD2BAE24D7C8765D47F240425F2@BobHP> <22B58912-F071-46FF-A6B2-2745FA3CF2E8@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4448595E7D7A48838024C305B5F6DFBA@BobHP> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Snider Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:38 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping ofcategoriesand no liminality Bob, One more "moron" or "imbecile" or anything resembling such and you're in my killfile, too. Your occasional genuine intellectual provocations are not worth this crap. Hoping for the best of you and from you. Can I say that to believe poetry is anything anybody says it is is moronic, Mike? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 16:43:06 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 22:43:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob is a person who, besides behaving like the hero/the actor of the cathartic moment, the Saint Sebastian although bitterly atheist, of the list, enjoys being mutilated, he thrives on it, do not ask me why, it goes beyond my limited understanding. On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:28 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman > > wrote: > > > > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this > list. > > > > Thank goodness. > > > > In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll > keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that > just keeps on giving. > > c > > I don?t think my not having my finger on the list?s pulse necessarily > means no one reads my posts. Some people, even here, are intelligent > enough to like, at least occasionally, to hear from people who disagree > with them as well as from those who agree with them. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 16:47:38 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:47:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson Message-ID: <1328219258.96936.androidMobile@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Seems understanding isn't the point.? Because there's a huge difference between disagreeing with a point and simply being persistently and aggressively disagreeable. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 16:55:37 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 22:55:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: <1328219258.96936.androidMobile@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328219258.96936.androidMobile@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What a catch on Facebook, it seems it is Bob Grumman's Birthday! >From Geof Huth: [Spoken in robotic voice] Please note: Annual Grumman birthday posting-cum-roast will occur later today, 2 February 2012, on dbqp: visualizing poetics. May the Lord Almighty have mercy on thy immortal sole. Yes, sole. Happiest Birthday! On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM, amy king wrote: > Seems understanding isn't the point. Because there's a huge difference > between disagreeing with a point and simply being persistently and > aggressively disagreeable. > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Anny Ballardini ; > * To: * NewPoetry List ; > * Subject: * Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson > * Sent: * Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:43:06 PM > > Bob is a person who, besides behaving like the hero/the actor of the > cathartic moment, the Saint Sebastian although bitterly atheist, of the > list, enjoys being mutilated, he thrives on it, do not ask me why, it goes > beyond my limited understanding. > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Lott >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:28 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson >> >> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman >> > wrote: >> > >> > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this >> list. >> > >> > Thank goodness. >> > >> >> In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll >> keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that >> just keeps on giving. >> >> c >> >> I don?t think my not having my finger on the list?s pulse necessarily >> means no one reads my posts. Some people, even here, are intelligent >> enough to like, at least occasionally, to hear from people who disagree >> with them as well as from those who agree with them. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 16:59:44 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:59:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson Message-ID: <1328219984.95021.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> But I do appreciate your efforts to empathize and understand, Anny!? Should have said that.? Your patience is as admirable as you are kind and generous with your time and energy, esp in all that you do for poetry - as do so many others on the list with very little fanfare or expectation.? But meanwhile, there are the rare few who suck others dry with their ego-driven need, however masochistic that need may be, demanding all the while and never getting a clue.? My best to you, Anny, as always, Amy Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 17:01:26 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 17:01:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328209704.21246.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEAE93D40E3878-1B44-22C13@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com><1328060434.38970.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CEAF4E20ECCA8C-20B0-5CAB@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> <1328209704.21246.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEB00D57D7EAAF-116C-C7B4@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Noah Eli Gordon re Cy Twombly... http://www.coloradopoetscenter.org/poets/gordon_noah/fourallusive.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 17:04:03 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:04:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? Message-ID: <1328220243.2360.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> That's kind of perfect, Fin.? I'm esp interested in ekphrasis that includes the artist in some regard, to put it loosely. Amy Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 17:05:24 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 17:05:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: <1328219258.96936.androidMobile@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEB00DE6139015-116C-C807@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Groundhog Day...No chance I guess we can we get him to pop his head out of his hole just once a year? -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: amy king Cc: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson What a catch on Facebook, it seems it is Bob Grumman's Birthday! >From Geof Huth: [Spoken in robotic voice] Please note: Annual Grumman birthday posting-cum-roast will occur later today, 2 February 2012, on dbqp: visualizing poetics. May the Lord Almighty have mercy on thy immortal sole. Yes, sole. Happiest Birthday! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 17:10:36 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:10:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? Message-ID: <1328220636.58413.androidMobile@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This is also an interesting twist on Ekphrasis by Rachel Eliza Griffiths - her self portrait imitates a Kahlo painting and her poem extends it - http://www.poetrysociety.org/psa/poetry/crossroads/ars_poetica/rachel_eliza_griffiths/ Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 17:10:47 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:10:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328220243.2360.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328220243.2360.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Amy-- I did a "Self-Portrait" once upon a time. It's in *Eclipse*, one of my early New Rivers collections. Link to poem here --> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html#self Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:04 PM, amy king wrote: > That's kind of perfect, Fin. I'm esp interested in ekphrasis that > includes the artist in some regard, to put it loosely. > > Amy > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 17:11:55 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 23:11:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: <1328219984.95021.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328219984.95021.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You are too kind, Amy, and one of the best poets around. Congratulations to you, I am in awe! Anny On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM, amy king wrote: > But I do appreciate your efforts to empathize and understand, Anny! Should > have said that. Your patience is as admirable as you are kind and generous > with your time and energy, esp in all that you do for poetry - as do so > many others on the list with very little fanfare or expectation. But > meanwhile, there are the rare few who suck others dry with their ego-driven > need, however masochistic that need may be, demanding all the while and > never getting a clue. > > My best to you, Anny, as always, > > Amy > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > ------------------------------ > * From: * amy king ; > * To: * NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>; Anny Ballardini ; > * Subject: * Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson > * Sent: * Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:47:38 PM > > Seems understanding isn't the point. Because there's a huge difference > between disagreeing with a point and simply being persistently and > aggressively disagreeable. > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Anny Ballardini ; > * To: * NewPoetry List ; > * Subject: * Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson > * Sent: * Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:43:06 PM > > Bob is a person who, besides behaving like the hero/the actor of the > cathartic moment, the Saint Sebastian although bitterly atheist, of the > list, enjoys being mutilated, he thrives on it, do not ask me why, it goes > beyond my limited understanding. > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Lott >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:28 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson >> >> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman >> > wrote: >> > >> > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this >> list. >> > >> > Thank goodness. >> > >> >> In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll >> keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that >> just keeps on giving. >> >> c >> >> I don?t think my not having my finger on the list?s pulse necessarily >> means no one reads my posts. Some people, even here, are intelligent >> enough to like, at least occasionally, to hear from people who disagree >> with them as well as from those who agree with them. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 17:15:33 2012 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:15:33 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Narcissist. Look it up. Then it becomes simpler. On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Bob is a person who, besides behaving like the hero/the actor of the > cathartic moment, the Saint Sebastian although bitterly atheist, of the > list, enjoys being mutilated, he thrives on it, do not ask me why, it goes > beyond my limited understanding. > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Lott >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:28 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson >> >> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:00 PM, bob grumman >> > wrote: >> > >> > Well, you don't exactly seem to have your finger on the pulse of this >> list. >> > >> > Thank goodness. >> > >> >> In other words: I know no one listens to my one-off bullshit, but I'll >> keep posting them anyway. That's so nice of you. You're a gift that >> just keeps on giving. >> >> c >> >> I don?t think my not having my finger on the list?s pulse necessarily >> means no one reads my posts. Some people, even here, are intelligent >> enough to like, at least occasionally, to hear from people who disagree >> with them as well as from those who agree with them. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 2 17:36:16 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:36:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> Creeley was a mentor and (in some measure determined by both our prickly personalities) a friend. He was also (in my reckoning) a great poet and a great supporter of poets. But he was the first who came to mind as an instance of an academic poet biting the hand that feeds it--a tendency I don't like, as I told him. If anyone thinks that academics are specially narrow-minded, oblivious, contemptuous of others' opinions, or territorial, I'd say they haven't had their eyes open--and yes, (as I've said before), the discourse on this list sometimes shows a hint of such stuff itself. What can I say--it's vulgar, but it's human. yrs, Jerry On 2/2/2012 1:38 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > it sounds like creeley would prefer the company of the disenfranchised. > > : _eccolinguistics _ : > : _delete press _ : > : _reconfigurations _ : > > > From: Jerry McGuire > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is > > To: "NewPoetry List" > > Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM > > > > > > > > Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to > do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having > internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've > internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been > "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a particular > narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, and second, I > don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without being paid. As to > "degrees in a process /event that is now long past increments of any > kind, including judgements of value," speak for yourself. I believe in > increments, values, choices, preferences, and points of view. And for > that matter, I believe in something like free will, though I'm not > naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly > determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as > I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I > seem touchy, > > it has something to do with people who don't know me making > assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact > that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey > Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about > academics as distinct from the people he preferred for company, I've > met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets or artists of some > sort or other as I met when I worked in paper mills, jet engine > factories, or the military. And, the academy, despised as it is by > lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has struck me as (1) > a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class (2) in many > ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much of my > life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and > creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. > I'm sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. > Though I've known a dozen > > editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in > my day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or > anyone else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even > when that doesn't quite suit me. > > > > Warmly, and in friendship, > > > > Jerry > > > > On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: > > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context > from > > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a > > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long > > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This > > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long > > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. > > > > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's > > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of > > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ > > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read > > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], > > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation > > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social > > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more > > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or > > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be > > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by > > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, > > libraries, etc. > > > > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and > hinges > > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as > > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an > > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a > > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and > > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to > > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an > > audience--either immediate or deferred. > > > > Jess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > > Jerry McGuire > > Dept. of English > > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > > Lafayette LA 70506 > > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > > 337-482-5478 > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 2 17:41:08 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 17:41:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <024F6F18D5974E4F83E4BC8AFA055B82@BobHP> From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:43 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson Bob is a person who, besides behaving like the hero/the actor of the cathartic moment, the Saint Sebastian although bitterly atheist, of the list, enjoys being mutilated, he thrives on it, do not ask me why, it goes beyond my limited understanding. No, no, Anny, I?m a sadist, inflicting terrible wounds on those I consider Enemies of Poetry, or trying to and failing. Believe it or not, I don?t feel at all mutilated. All I think I?m doing is expressing opinions, the majority of which are not negative, although I can?t expect anyone hyperoffendable (which you certainly are not) to notice. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 17:57:16 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:57:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> References: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Vulgar! Now that's a word we don't see/hear everyday hereabouts. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Creeley was a mentor and (in some measure determined by both our prickly > personalities) a friend. He was also (in my reckoning) a great poet and a > great supporter of poets. But he was the first who came to mind as an > instance of an academic poet biting the hand that feeds it--a tendency I > don't like, as I told him. If anyone thinks that academics are specially > narrow-minded, oblivious, contemptuous of others' opinions, or territorial, > I'd say they haven't had their eyes open--and yes, (as I've said before), > the discourse on this list sometimes shows a hint of such stuff itself. > What can I say--it's vulgar, but it's human. > > yrs, > > Jerry > > On 2/2/2012 1:38 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > > it sounds like creeley would prefer the company of the disenfranchised. > > : *eccolinguistics * : > : *delete press * : > : *reconfigurations * : > > > From: Jerry McGuire > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is > > To: "NewPoetry List" > > Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM > > > > > > > > Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something to do > with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my "having > internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," I've internalized > a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to having been "long paid . . . to > make judgements derived from a particular narrative," first, it hasn't > really been that long, and second, I don't accept pay for anything I > wouldn't do without being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is > now long past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," speak > for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, preferences, and > points of view. And for that matter, I believe in something like free will, > though I'm not naive about either of its terms. If you persuade me that I'm > perfectly determined, even by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as > soon as I'm done with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I > seem touchy, > > it has something to do with people who don't know me making assumptions > about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the fact that I'm an > academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the Grey Professor of Literature > at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping about academics as distinct from the > people he preferred for company, I've met as many jerks who promoted > themselves as poets or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked > in paper mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, > despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in it, has > struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my socioeconomic class > (2) in many ways more humane than any of the other places I've spent much > of my life, and (3) populated by neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and > creeps than any of those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm > sorry if this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've > known a dozen > > editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered ideologies in my > day, I would never dream of generalizing from that fact to you or anyone > else. I take people for what they've made of themselves, even when that > doesn't quite suit me. > > > > Warmly, and in friendship, > > > > Jerry > > > > On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com wrote: > > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic context from > > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having internalized a > > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed have long > > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This > > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is now long > > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. > > > > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's > > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of > > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ > > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read > > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such artifact], > > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for appreciation > > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social > > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or more > > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or > > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or event-- can be > > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by > > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by collectors, > > libraries, etc. > > > > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic and hinges > > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as > > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free will is an > > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a > > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and > > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to > > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an > > audience--either immediate or deferred. > > > > Jess > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > > Jerry McGuire > > Dept. of English > > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > > Lafayette LA 70506 > > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > > 337-482-5478 > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 18:05:24 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328220636.58413.androidMobile@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328220636.58413.androidMobile@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEB01647D5E21F-116C-CEC9@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> I liked Griffith's artist statement too. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; jforjames at aol com ; amyhappens at yahoo com Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 5:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? This is also an interesting twist on Ekphrasis by Rachel Eliza Griffiths - her self portrait imitates a Kahlo painting and her poem extends it - http://www.poetrysociety.org/psa/poetry/crossroads/ars_poetica/rachel_eliza_griffiths/ Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 2 18:11:46 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:11:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: References: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CEB0172B485F73-116C-CF5B@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Just ran across this quote today, from... The Triumph Of Vulgarity: Rock Music In The Mirror Of Romanticism by Robert Pattison... Refinement, the mode in which favor and grace have apprehended the world, has always made a point of filling the imagined vacuum of vulgarity with reasoned civilization. The Romantic revolution proclaims that the apparent emptiness. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 5:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is Vulgar! Now that's a word we don't see/hear everyday hereabouts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 2 18:18:12 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:18:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: References: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4F2B19B4.3010906@louisiana.edu> No doubt, Hal: as they say, _in the vulgar . . ._ Jerry On 2/2/2012 4:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Vulgar! Now that's a word we don't see/hear everyday hereabouts. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > On Barcelona (submissions sought; > email to my address above) > Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ > > Remains To Be Seen /, > Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) > ,//Remains To Be Seen > (Vol. III) , /Sonnets > from the Basque & Other Poems > /, /Mainly Black > , /Obras P?blicas > ; //The Perfection of > Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; > //Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > //Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > //G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ; > //Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Jerry McGuire > wrote: > > Creeley was a mentor and (in some measure determined by both our > prickly personalities) a friend. He was also (in my reckoning) a > great poet and a great supporter of poets. But he was the first > who came to mind as an instance of an academic poet biting the > hand that feeds it--a tendency I don't like, as I told him. If > anyone thinks that academics are specially narrow-minded, > oblivious, contemptuous of others' opinions, or territorial, I'd > say they haven't had their eyes open--and yes, (as I've said > before), the discourse on this list sometimes shows a hint of such > stuff itself. What can I say--it's vulgar, but it's human. > > yrs, > > Jerry > > On 2/2/2012 1:38 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: >> it sounds like creeley would prefer the company of the >> disenfranchised. >> >> : _eccolinguistics _ : >> : _delete press _ : >> : _reconfigurations _ : >> >> > From: Jerry McGuire >> >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is >> > To: "NewPoetry List" >> >> > Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012, 12:26 AM >> > >> > >> > >> > Yeah, I hear you, Jess. Of course my "discomfort" has something >> to do with my "socio-economic context." How couldn't it? As to my >> "having internalized a certain narrative regarding this subject," >> I've internalized a lot of narratives, grand and minor. As to >> having been "long paid . . . to make judgements derived from a >> particular narrative," first, it hasn't really been that long, >> and second, I don't accept pay for anything I wouldn't do without >> being paid. As to "degrees in a process /event that is now long >> past increments of any kind, including judgements of value," >> speak for yourself. I believe in increments, values, choices, >> preferences, and points of view. And for that matter, I believe >> in something like free will, though I'm not naive about either of >> its terms. If you persuade me that I'm perfectly determined, even >> by the meat in my brain, I'll shoot myself as soon as I'm done >> with this email. So maybe we'd better just drop it. (If I seem >> touchy, >> > it has something to do with people who don't know me making >> assumptions about my life, my mind, and my politics based on the >> fact that I'm an academic. Like I told Bob Creeley when he [the >> Grey Professor of Literature at SUNY Buffalo!] started carping >> about academics as distinct from the people he preferred for >> company, I've met as many jerks who promoted themselves as poets >> or artists of some sort or other as I met when I worked in paper >> mills, jet engine factories, or the military. And, the academy, >> despised as it is by lots of artists who don't spend much time in >> it, has struck me as (1) a salvation for lots of people from my >> socioeconomic class (2) in many ways more humane than any of the >> other places I've spent much of my life, and (3) populated by >> neither more nor fewer maggots, jerks, and creeps than any of >> those other cultural functions and institutions. I'm sorry if >> this seems unpleasant to you, but you struck a nerve. Though I've >> known a dozen >> > editors with filthy manners and vicious, self-centered >> ideologies in my day, I would never dream of generalizing from >> that fact to you or anyone else. I take people for what they've >> made of themselves, even when that doesn't quite suit me. >> > >> > Warmly, and in friendship, >> > >> > Jerry >> > >> > On 1/31/2012 9:48 PM, ahadada at gol.com >> wrote: >> > Jerry, I think your discomfort comes from the socio-economic >> context from >> > and in which you work as a professor of poetics, having >> internalized a >> > certain narrative regarding this subject, and expected--indeed >> have long >> > been paid-- to make judgements derived from that narrative. This >> > encourages you to look for degrees in a process/ event that is >> now long >> > past increments of any kind, including judgements of value. >> > >> > For this part of my argument, I'd like to follow George Dickie's >> > "institutional theory of art" which seems to make the most sense of >> > all post-post modern artistic endeavor and the presentation/ >> > preservation of it, and apply that theory to poetry. "...art [read >> > poetry/poem] is "any artifact [or process resulting in such >> artifact], >> > which has had conferred upon it the status of candidate for >> appreciation >> > by some person or persons acting on behalf of a certain social >> > institution (the art world) [read here the literary "world"--or >> more >> > accurately "worlds"]. Therefore any artifact, or event--verbal or >> > other--or any process that results in such an artifact or >> event-- can be >> > baptized as "poetry" or a "poem" if accepted and displayed by >> > literary venues and [though not necessarily] purchased by >> collectors, >> > libraries, etc. >> > >> > The idea of intention in the creation of poetry is problematic >> and hinges >> > on the larger concept of individual free will. If it is true, as >> > contemporary science continues to indicate, that human free >> will is an >> > illusion, then even the idea of intention in poetry is reduced to a >> > congeries of various narratives, contexts and impinging random and >> > ordered events which have an impact upon our choice and ability to >> > engage in the activity of creating an aesthetic experience for an >> > audience--either immediate or deferred. >> > >> > Jess >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jerry McGuire >> > Dept. of English >> > University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> > Lafayette LA 70506 >> > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> > 337-482-5478 >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506 > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Feb 2 23:10:53 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:10:53 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson In-Reply-To: <024F6F18D5974E4F83E4BC8AFA055B82@BobHP> References: <024F6F18D5974E4F83E4BC8AFA055B82@BobHP> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:41 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > No, no, Anny, I?m a sadist, inflicting terrible wounds on those I consider > Enemies of Poetry, or trying to and failing.? Believe it or not, I don?t > feel at all mutilated.? All I think I?m doing is expressing opinions, the > majority of which are not negative, although I can?t expect anyone > hyperoffendable (which you certainly are not) to notice. You don't exactly have to be "hyperoffendable" to notice your routine negative bleating. As I said initially: when you can actually be moved to contribute to a conversation in a way that indicates you care even a little bit about what other's thnk, it's a whole different thing. But your serial, content-free dumps have lead most here, would bet, not to see you as some kind of saviour of the disenfranchised, but a constant voice that sees every post and thinks "I bet I know what Bob's going to say." And the sad thing for you is, they're (we're) right. You're as predictable as a broken clock. Sadder: you feel some kind of accomplishment. I'm done with this. I'll never talk you into trying to be productive or less-repetitive or even think twice before dumping on people's attempt to share with your regular selfish, content-free posts. I'll look forward to the other kind, which seem in the great minority from here. I should have listened to the multiple backchannel counsels not to bother with this at all... c From chris at chrislott.org Thu Feb 2 23:12:07 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:12:07 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is Anything We Say It Is In-Reply-To: References: <4F2B0FE0.3080900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Vulgar! Now that's a word we don't see/hear everyday hereabouts. It's a good word. I think we should reclaim it for its original meaning... c From ahadada at gol.com Fri Feb 3 01:10:22 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:10:22 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] :-) Message-ID: <1B3fBHpI.1328249422.8745560.ahadada@gol.com> My goodness! Jess From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Thu Feb 2 09:29:11 2012 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:29:11 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Truck driver for February seeking contributions Message-ID: <20120202142911.LPX49.11248.root@hrndva-web03-z01> Wind-swept hair, the vast open road, infinite possibility. Poets (like truckers)... they're the backbone of our economy. What I'd like to do for my stint in the driver's seat of TRUCK for the month of February... is to step away from the stereotypes of (truck driving) and poetics... We all have an idea of what a truck driver's like, what a poet's like... but I'll bet there's so much more. Everyone has the idea of a big, overweight, burly poet who'd really rough and raw, but I'm here to invite one and all within the tri-state area reach and beyond to climb up into the cab and prove that's not the case. I'm betting that many of you just wanted to be poets. You wanted the freedom. Or you lost your way and didn't know what else to do. I read a recent survey that said a shortage of poets suggests an improving economy. But back years ago, when many of us hit the road, poets made up one of the largest occupations in the world. there were millions and millions of us. That's a lot of poets in mobile purgatory--a lot of people many others might never really see, except maybe through their rear-view mirror. I invite you to add to this picture of poet culture. Our task is before us-- to portray "the integrity" of the poetic life. Please send me something I can post. Help me ease the hours on end of driving toward nothing in the middle of nowhere. I want to read a lot of poetry. Thanks. G. E. Schwartz (leaving the light on for you) gejs1 at rochester.rr.com From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 3 10:06:10 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:06:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality In-Reply-To: <7W0Qd0hZ.1328187906.3896350.ahadada@gol.com> Message-ID: <1328281570.23488.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... or what was going on in pop art ... the canvas, and letters Jasper Johns painted ... or the extended definition of canvas when seen from a Raushenberg perspective ... all that ... MATH-KU is adding more into the mix ... the visual element ... haiku/text ... as well as something related to number/arithmetic ... Vispo seems more related to the typography of words ... & how are these artifacts consumed? --- On Thu, 2/2/12, ahadada at gol.com wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 8:05 AM Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z "liminal" form.? In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem for this post-post-post modern paradigm.? Bob, and others, how could it not be? Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crowkeeper64 at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 12:02:37 2012 From: crowkeeper64 at gmail.com (Paul Siegell) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:02:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem as Book Review in Paste Magazine Message-ID: Hello! Some crazy news on the poetry front: A few weeks ago, *Paste* magazine asked me to review a new book about Phish shows -- *Mr. Miner's Phish Thoughts: An Anthology By A Fan For The Fans.*The kicker, *Paste* asked me to write it as a poem. A book review as a poem. I was like, um... One of the most difficult things I've ever written, but also the most exciting: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2012/02/mr-miners-phish-thoughts-an-anthology-by-a-fan-for.html How'd I do? Thanks for taking a look, Paul Siegell http://paulsiegell.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 12:16:36 2012 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:16:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] A time(d) poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: _____________________________________ MAC-TALLA ?[ echo ] a time(d) poem in two Gaelics ... http://www.saorsainn.net _____________________________________ Regards, Seumas Cain http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain From halvard at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 13:53:34 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:53:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Listening 2 Message-ID: :: Listening 2: Janacek, In the Mist (Antonin Kubalek) Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 3 14:36:33 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:36:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality In-Reply-To: <1328281570.23488.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328297793.56288.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> in other words, art is appreciated while cuisine is consumed. Not to get nit/pickey or anything. Red wine, for instance: best consumed with Rembrant. Red Bull malt goes well with Pollock. & vodka with a frigid winter landscape. --- On Fri, 2/3/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 3, 2012, 10:06 AM ... or what was going on in pop art ... the canvas, and letters Jasper Johns painted ... or the extended definition of canvas when seen from a Raushenberg perspective ... all that ... MATH-KU is adding more into the mix ... the visual element ... haiku/text ... as well as something related to number/arithmetic ... Vispo seems more related to the typography of words ... & how are these artifacts consumed? --- On Thu, 2/2/12, ahadada at gol.com wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] For Bob and Others: There is no co-oping of categories and no liminality To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 8:05 AM Poetry is anything we say it is: therefore we can't really say that visual poetry is a liminal form and neither is visual haiku, math-ku, poetic objects, pwomes, or any of the other categories of so-called "liminal" literature, and more specifically poetry, and that "poetry" is the only category left in which to fit X, Y, or Z "liminal" form.? In fact, the very positing of--say--a visual poem, is the definiing of both the intention and the consumption of the artifact, (think label on a pickle jar) and therefore it is really, indeed, a poem for this post-post-post modern paradigm.? Bob, and others, how could it not be? Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eposamentier at yahoo.com Fri Feb 3 15:16:33 2012 From: eposamentier at yahoo.com (Evelyn Posamentier) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:16:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: <1328220636.58413.androidMobile@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328220636.58413.androidMobile@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328300193.68149.YahooMailNeo@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> is anyone familiar with this? ? http://www.bigcitylit.com/may2002/contents/Poetry.html ? ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; "jforjames at aol com" ; "amyhappens at yahoo com" Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? This is also an interesting twist on Ekphrasis by Rachel Eliza Griffiths - her self portrait imitates a Kahlo painting and her poem extends it - http://www.poetrysociety.org/psa/poetry/crossroads/ars_poetica/rachel_eliza_griffiths/ Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android ________________________________ From: amy king ; To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; jforjames at aol com ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:04:03 PM That's kind of perfect, Fin.? I'm esp interested in ekphrasis that includes the artist in some regard, to put it loosely. Amy Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android _______________________________________________New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Feb 3 15:34:48 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 12:34:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] PEN AMERICAN - Kara Dorris: Fairytale: How Spring Comes to the Land of Snow & Icicles / (Dream Map) Message-ID: <1328301288.17739.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> PEN POETRY SERIES - "Beauty is a Verb: The New Poetry of Disability" -- http://www.pen.org/blog/?p=8334 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 3 16:42:53 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] emotionally honest art Message-ID: <1328305373.80490.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> this is my most emotionally honest work -- ?Stephen -- Karl Rove tweeted about you. He did not. When he heard about our Two-Term Fund, he tweeted: Stop tweeting me, bastard ///////////////// "Saw another @BarackObama fund appeal for $3. 25 cent gift that I NEED FOR BEER. Good mktg or forced by low enthusiasm? Bet many upset 08 blood donors are taking pass this year." We often ask people for $3 ... that's my beer money ... because we believe as many people as possible should take ownership of the political process. It's easy to understand why that might not compute to the guy doing a lot of the selling for a party bought and sold by special interests ... yeah, I Agree with THAT. . Since we launched the Two-Term Fund Wednesday afternoon, 41,978 people have stepped up and chipped in an average of $40.63 each ... EXACTLY 63 CENTS. Can you help -- with $3 or whatever you can afford? It's telling that Karl Rove is planning to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for the 2012 campaign -- but hasn't endorsed or worked for any of the candidates. That's because he doesn't care who wins the nomination. His singular, obsessive focus is defeating Barack Obama. So, knowing Karl Rove is watching, here's my real question: Can you pitch in to stop him? wHEN i'M FINISHED BEER https://donate.barackobama.com/Two-Term-Fund Thanks, Julianna Julianna Smoot Deputy Campaign Manager Obama for America -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 17:08:20 2012 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 17:08:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Listening 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Il prigioniero, Dallapiccola?s one-act opera, written in the late 1940s On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > :: Listening 2: Janacek, In the Mist (Antonin Kubalek) > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > On Barcelona (submissions sought; > email to my address above) > Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ > > Remains To Be Seen *, Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets > from the Basque & Other Poems > *, *Mainly Black , *Obras > P?blicas ; **The Perfection > of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory > of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ; **Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Feb 3 17:39:31 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 17:39:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] LitMag Watch: Long Poem Magazine Message-ID: <8CEB0DBD4C53C95-15BC-CA69@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Got an epic?... http://www.longpoemmagazine.org.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 4 11:28:59 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 11:28:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Stacy Doris, 1962-2012 Message-ID: <8CEB1713BB7B927-175C-17052@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2012/02/with-respect-stacy-doris-1962-2012/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 14:40:48 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 20:40:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sat Feb 4 17:41:57 2012 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 17:41:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEB1A555E14793-DDC-267B3@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> Thanks Anny for the great article! I reposted it a bunch of places. Mill -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 12:56 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 4 18:34:56 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 18:34:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] common reader Message-ID: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Today I may have met the elusive, almost legendary, common reader of poetry. I was interviewed by New York Times writer who was doing a piece on Hartford's Wallace Stevens Walk, which I was instrumental in getting off (really on) the ground. Jeff Gordinier told me he types out one poem a day (almost every day) and sends them to his friends. He estimates he's typed over 3500 poems and sent them to various people. He talked about the delight he experiences when typing the text out and how it gives him a deeper understanding of the things at play in the composition. (Of course, that's a good exercise other's have suggested; but who really executes the process day in day out.) I told him I'd made a pledge to read a poem (new to me) each day, and somehow hadn't really been as disciplined (have missed many days) as he seems to be. http://jeffgordinier.com/ http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jeff-gordinier Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 18:41:40 2012 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 18:41:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gulf Coast Association of Creative Writing Teachers 2012 Conference Message-ID: Hello, NewPoets-- http://www.gcacwt.com/ Registration is now open for the Gulf Coast Association of Creative Writing Teachers 2012 Conference (March 30-31, 2012) a the Baldwin Campus of the University of South Alabama in Fairhope. I hope that any of you in the Gulf Coast region will consider attending. Ravi Howard is this year's keynote speaker. Be sure to check out the website above for info about our keynote and info on Fairhope, the conference, and the all-new logo design contest. Hope to see some of you there. Best, Jeff Newberry -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 4 19:26:17 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 16:26:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem recommendations / Ekprhasis? In-Reply-To: References: <1328220243.2360.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328401577.11614.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Got it -- thanks much, Hal! ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson Hi, Amy-- I did a "Self-Portrait" once upon a time. It's in Eclipse, one of my early New Rivers collections. Link to poem here --> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 4 19:40:44 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 16:40:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 22:19:46 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 19:19:46 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for posting this, Anny. Many teachers in California would second the anonymous NY teacher Hedges interviewed. One has the sense that the corporate funders who want to narrow down the curriculum want to destroy children's joy in learning and teacher's joy in teaching. Students learn from open-ended projects with teachers who can help them follow their inclinations and articulate their understandings. They don't learn from canned curriculums. On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 > > A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public > information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles > for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test > scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational > training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out > stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge > the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into > a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic > state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 4 22:33:50 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 22:33:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Amy, The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 00:01:25 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 21:01:25 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Finnegan, I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. The job is way too hard to do if someone doesn't want to engage with teaching and learning. The way to improve education is to give teachers time to reflect on their practice and continue to develop their understanding of their subject matter and of pedagogy. That's what they do in the countries with the strongest education systems. Carol On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:33 PM, wrote: > Amy, > The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. > Just as it not fixing much else in society. > However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can > get away with, and doing no go for their students. > Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have > a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges > > Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails > square on the kisser: > > I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools > system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted > to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To > truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common > good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 > > A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public > information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles > for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test > scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational > training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out > stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge > the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into > a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic > state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Feb 5 00:50:02 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 21:50:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1328421002.48296.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I think unions need to not only get on the ball by identifying their "product," but they also need to realize that we've got that upperhand / high road so many would knock us down from in the vein of 'anti-intellectualism' - we've got passion, we've got reasoning, we've got reasons for caring, we know how language is manipulated, etc - and it IS personal; we're influencing how humans think/function.? I get tired of the reactionary stuff many colleagues engage in; it's a trap, an easy one at that.? Accuse and watch 'em fall in line.? I wish we would be more proactive about setting the terms / positions we're arguing from.? They boil things down to 'Well, we've got budget issues and things are tight and everywhere everyone's making concessions, cuts, etc,'? And then we reply, 'But but... we need funding; let's find it elsewhere,' in the practical, response mode.? We need that mode, somewhat, but things get beyond that too.? Money certainly exists, and it's being put somewhere - where depends on whose interests are being served, who bangs the drums loud enough, etc.? So yes to "high quality engaged workers."? But they have ways of beating down those workers to myopic response instead of moral outrage and shock at the audacity of *how* and what they expect us to teach.? Getting unions and individuals to see how those traps work would be a start... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Amy, The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a?'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Feb 5 00:57:07 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 21:57:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1328421427.30495.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> As in every profession, each person's input varies.? It's a stupid fallacy to think that because there are some bad teachers that all teachers are bad.? You can substitute any profession's name for "real teacher" in Fin's post.? "Real train conductors." "Real police officers." "Real U.S. Senators."? Etc.? I like Matt Damon's reply - http://youtu.be/3WIv7Xk8BjA ________________________________ From: carol dorf Finnegan, I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. The job is way too hard to do if someone doesn't want to engage with teaching and learning. The way to improve education is to give teachers time to reflect on their practice and continue to develop their understanding of their subject matter and of pedagogy. That's what they do in the countries with the strongest education systems. Carol On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:33 PM, wrote: Amy, >The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. >However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. >Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a?'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: amy king >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges > > >Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: > >I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. > > > > > >________________________________ > From: Anny Ballardini > > >https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 > >A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. > > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 01:48:28 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 01:48:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <26979215.1328424508680.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 01:57:31 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 01:57:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <15834427.1328425051778.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Feb 5 02:57:30 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 22:57:30 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:01 PM, carol dorf wrote: > Finnegan, > I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've > seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the > myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. Both possibilities can (and I think are) true at the same time: "enemies" of public education, some of whom really believe they are trying to do the right thing, some of whom are hypocrites, hyperfocus on the group of teachers who under-perform. But those teachers most certainly do exist, and while they are a minority, my experience is that it's not insignificant. The same thing can be said of tenured faculty deadwood-- there is plenty of that at every higher education institution I've worked in or with. But what profession is immune? Why aren't all honorable professions held hostage by a focus on the relatively few? And, of course, coming from politicians, it's a bit too much to take. But I do think that denying the existence of such teachers causes more harm than good--it gives the accusing side a reason to dismiss pretty much anything else we might say. c -- Chris Lott From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 05:48:33 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:48:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Whenever there are similar discussions at school, I remind people that the same Leonardo da Vinci underlined in his notes that without competition you will never push your students to geniality, they might be good/disciplined - within the average, but geniality comes from stress, you like it or not (I do not mean any particular 'you,' logically). The same saints prayed *not * to have an easy life. Tolkien described the Hobbit so well, he depicts in the little being the generally shared attitude of man. I am therefore in-between the two positions. Rather than tied to a political tendency, I view the capacity of being fully aware based on a solid religious belief or philosophical thought. It is ethics, not politics. I do not marry anybody. Let's see what is on their agenda, and then let's vote. If after or during a term they do not respect their promises, then let's pull them down and put up someone better. Easy to say, I know. But I wanted to let people know what I think. As a matter of fact I am like my grandfather, an anarchist, but _and here is the big BUT _we need a different society apriori! Best wishes, and thanks for having read me so far. Anny Ballardini On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:01 PM, carol dorf wrote: > > Finnegan, > > I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and > I've > > seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of > the > > myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. > > Both possibilities can (and I think are) true at the same time: > "enemies" of public education, some of whom really believe they are > trying to do the right thing, some of whom are hypocrites, hyperfocus > on the group of teachers who under-perform. But those teachers most > certainly do exist, and while they are a minority, my experience is > that it's not insignificant. > > The same thing can be said of tenured faculty deadwood-- there is > plenty of that at every higher education institution I've worked in or > with. > > But what profession is immune? Why aren't all honorable professions > held hostage by a focus on the relatively few? > > And, of course, coming from politicians, it's a bit too much to take. > > But I do think that denying the existence of such teachers causes more > harm than good--it gives the accusing side a reason to dismiss pretty > much anything else we might say. > > c > -- > Chris Lott > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Feb 5 07:12:57 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 07:12:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1. yahoo.com><8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The thing I?d most like to see would be a crash program in improving our means of identifying childrens? aptitudes via genetic and neurophysiological studies, then exposing them to fields they would be most likely to enjoy and thrive in. not too likely in the present political climate that I will. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 10:26:54 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:26:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 10:33:14 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:33:14 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <14525801.1328455995181.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I agree, Chris. The problem with stressing the existence of the less-competent, tho, is that in any conceivable way of doing things they will be around. Which is why focusing on them is counterproductive, if education is really the concern. In the systems I've known well even the less competent, less dedicated, swim upstream every day just to stay in place. I'm talking about primary and secondary education. Higher education is a different issue--even public universities largely follow a corporate model, for one--but also far less relevant. The damage has been done by that point. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: Feb 5, 2012 2:57 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges > >On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:01 PM, carol dorf wrote: >> Finnegan, >> I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've >> seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the >> myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. > >Both possibilities can (and I think are) true at the same time: >"enemies" of public education, some of whom really believe they are >trying to do the right thing, some of whom are hypocrites, hyperfocus >on the group of teachers who under-perform. But those teachers most >certainly do exist, and while they are a minority, my experience is >that it's not insignificant. > >The same thing can be said of tenured faculty deadwood-- there is >plenty of that at every higher education institution I've worked in or >with. > >But what profession is immune? Why aren't all honorable professions >held hostage by a focus on the relatively few? > >And, of course, coming from politicians, it's a bit too much to take. > >But I do think that denying the existence of such teachers causes more >harm than good--it gives the accusing side a reason to dismiss pretty >much anything else we might say. > >c >-- >Chris Lott >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 10:41:03 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:41:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Bob, look at this: Albert Einstein was expelled from school because his attitude had a negative effect on serious students; he failed his university entrance exam and had to attend a trade school for one year before finally being admitted; and was the only one in his graduating class who did not get a teaching position because no professor would recommend him. One professor said Einstein was "the laziest dog" the university ever had. Beethoven's parents were told he was too stupid to be a music composer. Charles Darwin's colleagues called him a fool and what he was doing "fool's experiments" when he worked on his theory of biological evolution. Walt Disney was fired from his first job on a newspaper because "he lacked imagination." Thomas Edison had only two years of formal schooling, was totally deaf in one ear and was hard of hearing in the other, was fired from his first job as a newsboy and later fired from his job as a telegrapher; and still he became the most famous inventor in the history of the U.S. If you wish the whole thing: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-thinkering/201112/twelve-things-you-were-not-taught-in-school-about-creative-thinking thus... teacher, leave those kids alone... On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:26 PM, wrote: > More interesting, I think, would be identifying learning styles. Different > teaching methods work for different children. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bob grumman ** > Sent: Feb 5, 2012 7:12 AM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges > > ****** ** > The thing I?d most like to see would be a crash program in improving our > means of identifying childrens? aptitudes via genetic and > neurophysiological studies, then exposing them to fields they would be most > likely to enjoy and thrive in. not too likely in the present political > climate that I will. > > --Bob G. > **** **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Feb 5 10:43:19 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:43:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: From: junction at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 10:26 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges More interesting, I think, would be identifying learning styles. Different teaching methods work for different children. True, but what is being taught to a child seems more important to me that how it?s taught?no matter how well math, for instance, is taught to a kid without an aptitude for it, the teaching will be wasted; will?in fact?probably be damaging. Of course, I assume kids are innately significantly different from one another in aptitudes, which most educators don?t. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 10:43:32 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:43:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] common reader In-Reply-To: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: congratulations, James, and yes, one poem a day... let's give it a try_ On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:34 AM, wrote: > Today I may have met the elusive, almost legendary, common reader of > poetry. I was interviewed by New York Times writer who was doing a piece on > Hartford's Wallace Stevens Walk, which I was instrumental in getting off > (really on) the ground. > > Jeff Gordinier told me he types out one poem a day (almost every day) > and sends them to his friends. He estimates he's typed over 3500 poems and > sent them to various people. He talked about the delight he experiences > when typing the text out and how it gives him a deeper understanding of the > things at play in the composition. (Of course, that's a good exercise > other's have suggested; but who really executes the process day in day > out.) I told him I'd made a pledge to read a poem (new to me) each day, and > somehow hadn't really been as disciplined (have missed many days) as he > seems to be. > > http://jeffgordinier.com/ > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jeff-gordinier > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Feb 5 11:32:08 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 10:32:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4F2EAF08.4060900@louisiana.edu> Well, as Wm Burroughs said (in _The Yage Letters_, and I'm quoting roughly from memory), "They'll continue to blame it on the unions even as they're in process of turning into crustaceans." A union's function is to secure better working conditions for its workers by connecting them in a common understanding of what it means to coordinate their energies to raise the value of their labor in relation to the power to suppress those energies exerted by accumulated capital. There's really nothing in that arrangement (outside of individual intitiative) that has much to do with the actual quality of the work. I'm all for a utopian future, but under a capitalist regime, a union's job is to fight for workers against efforts to exploit them, not to train them or socialize them regarding company--or even social--expectations. My father helped organize International Brotherhood of Paper Makers and Paper Workers local 474 in upstate New York and was its president for its first twenty years and more--the date on the charter, here over my desk, is February 1944. He also took pride in being a meticulous, timely, hard, capable worker, and complained about people who were slack on the job. He said that when he walked into the bosses' office, he could always keep his head up and bargain. As a teacher I've seen irresponsible teaching around me everywhere I've studied and taught, for thirty years now; that includes a lot of high school teachers responsible for producing ill-prepared freshmen. (It also includes huge numbers of students who won't work; ironically, I believe that many of these are in school precisely because they're putting off getting a job.) I also saw shirking people when I was in military service (in fact, I was one of them), and in the factories, restaurants, and retail stores I've worked in. Some of these were unionized, some weren't. Both historical evidence and popular culture record--in every sort of social/political arrangement--evidence of crappy teaching. (My father, again, to the day he died, had burnt into his memory a particular thug who terrorized the kids in the country elementary school in Rossman NY. in the early 'teens.) As far as I can see, unions don't have anything to do with this situation, except that they may provide some ease and confidence in one's job stability, so that a good worker can do good work with a feeling of personal accomplishment and self-respect and a shirker can go on shirking, for whatever reasons lead him/her to that. (My experience is that it comes from feeling that your work lacks meaning or is otherwise alienating--as when I worked building jet-engine parts.) And remember, there are still weekend seminars for academic administrators to help them find shortcuts and fine-print tactics to get rid of tenured faculty. Both in and outside the academy, unions are constantly fighting rear-guard actions of ownership/management to find ways around the protections they've contracted for. It seems over-simple to me to blame unions for the failures of capitalism. Their business isn't to "sell . . . high quality, engaged workers," but to create working conditions in which responsible teachers can _produce_ graduates able to become high quality, engaged workers." In solidarity, Jerry On 2/4/2012 9:33 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Amy, > The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. > Just as it not fixing much else in society. > However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they > can get away with, and doing no go for their students. > Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have > a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges > > Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big > nails square on the kisser: > > I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools > system---whose primary concern is certainly not with education---are > delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained > instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge > which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of > historical amnesia. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 > > A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public > information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into > vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. > It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It > celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of > making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the > capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of > the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and > systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal > system of corporate masters and serfs. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 11:59:26 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:59:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <14300271.1328461166730.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 12:04:06 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 12:04:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] common reader In-Reply-To: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A good man. On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 6:34 PM, wrote: > Today I may have met the elusive, almost legendary, common reader of > poetry. I was interviewed by New York Times writer who was doing a piece on > Hartford's Wallace Stevens Walk, which I was instrumental in getting off > (really on) the ground. > > Jeff Gordinier told me he types out one poem a day (almost every day) > and sends them to his friends. He estimates he's typed over 3500 poems and > sent them to various people. He talked about the delight he experiences > when typing the text out and how it gives him a deeper understanding of the > things at play in the composition. (Of course, that's a good exercise > other's have suggested; but who really executes the process day in day > out.) I told him I'd made a pledge to read a poem (new to me) each day, and > somehow hadn't really been as disciplined (have missed many days) as he > seems to be. > > http://jeffgordinier.com/ > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jeff-gordinier > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 12:35:21 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:35:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mis(sin)g Message-ID: *Mis(sin)g Garrulous dissolutions, a warm house. Twomblyesque scribblings. Indigenous interchanges on a global basis. Postprandialen Serenaden.* Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 5 12:48:50 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 12:48:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB2458D6A31E9-1B64-25F73@webmail-d128.sysops.aol.com> Carol, Certainly the problems in many public schools are bigger than a few bad teachers. The majority of unionized teachers are hard working and doing the best they can under trying circumstances. You do know that there are bad teachers who get passed around school to school, but can't be fired? That's not a myth. So I do believe the unions should be less defensive and more proactive. They should do a better job policing their own ranks. They should have a fair and efficient process for weeding out the disengaged and underperforming among their cohort. That's how the unions would become stronger. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Finnegan, I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. The job is way too hard to do if someone doesn't want to engage with teaching and learning. The way to improve education is to give teachers time to reflect on their practice and continue to develop their understanding of their subject matter and of pedagogy. That's what they do in the countries with the strongest education systems. Carol On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:33 PM, wrote: Amy, The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 12:52:29 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 12:52:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <3873658.1328464349733.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 5 13:38:19 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 13:38:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. Message-ID: <8CEB24C7744483C-764-5B08@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/2012/02/02/146294653/flush-poets-society-donnellys-cloud-corporation-wins-six-figure-prize Poetry" and "money" are rarely found in the same sentence, unless a practitioner of the former is lamenting his dearth of the latter. Most poets get by on odd jobs, occasional grants, adjunct teaching, snippets of journalism or ? in the case of the poet-undertaker Thomas Lynch ? preserving dead bodies. For Timothy Donnelly, however, money will be a little easier to come by, at least for a few years. Yesterday Donnelly, who teaches at Columbia and Princeton, was awarded the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sun Feb 5 15:53:21 2012 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:53:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] interview In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB25F549B37A0-DDC-2C012@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> Hellow folks There's an interview up at R KV RY by Susan Rogers where I talk about poetry and painting and recovery and writing poems about paintings and poems about recovery in all its shapes and forms. --mill http://rkvry.com/blog/322-by-susan-rogers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Feb 5 16:41:49 2012 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:41:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. In-Reply-To: <8CEB24C7744483C-764-5B08@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB24C7744483C-764-5B08@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB26619CA55AF-804-29731@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> Thank God, I know they pay starvation wages at Princeton and Columbia. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:36 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. http://www.npr.org/2012/02/02/146294653/flush-poets-society-donnellys-cloud-corporation-wins-six-figure-prize Poetry" and "money" are rarely found in the same sentence, unless a practitioner of the former is lamenting his dearth of the latter. Most poets get by on odd jobs, occasional grants, adjunct teaching, snippets of journalism or ? in the case of the poet-undertaker Thomas Lynch ? preserving dead bodies. For Timothy Donnelly, however, money will be a little easier to come by, at least for a few years. Yesterday Donnelly, who teaches at Columbia and Princeton, was awarded the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award... _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 5 16:50:28 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:50:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] common reader In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB2674EF3095B-1ECC-1B9F0@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> Hal, of our list, often emails poems around (under a subject heading 'Poems by Others'... I imagine most he's typed himself. I don't know how many he's got...but it must be quite a few. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] common reader congratulations, James, and yes, one poem a day... let's give it a try_ On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:34 AM, wrote: Today I may have met the elusive, almost legendary, common reader of poetry. I was interviewed by New York Times writer who was doing a piece on Hartford's Wallace Stevens Walk, which I was instrumental in getting off (really on) the ground. Jeff Gordinier told me he types out one poem a day (almost every day) and sends them to his friends. He estimates he's typed over 3500 poems and sent them to various people. He talked about the delight he experiences when typing the text out and how it gives him a deeper understanding of the things at play in the composition. (Of course, that's a good exercise other's have suggested; but who really executes the process day in day out.) I told him I'd made a pledge to read a poem (new to me) each day, and somehow hadn't really been as disciplined (have missed many days) as he seems to be. http://jeffgordinier.com/ http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jeff-gordinier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Sun Feb 5 16:54:59 2012 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 21:54:59 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. In-Reply-To: <8CEB26619CA55AF-804-29731@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB24C7744483C-764-5B08@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com>, <8CEB26619CA55AF-804-29731@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hah, hah! To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu From: almaginnes at aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 16:41:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. Thank God, I know they pay starvation wages at Princeton and Columbia. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:36 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. http://www.npr.org/2012/02/02/146294653/flush-poets-society-donnellys-cloud-corporation-wins-six-figure-prize Poetry" and "money" are rarely found in the same sentence, unless a practitioner of the former is lamenting his dearth of the latter. Most poets get by on odd jobs, occasional grants, adjunct teaching, snippets of journalism or ? in the case of the poet-undertaker Thomas Lynch ? preserving dead bodies. For Timothy Donnelly, however, money will be a little easier to come by, at least for a few years. Yesterday Donnelly, who teaches at Columbia and Princeton, was awarded the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award... _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 5 17:03:41 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 17:03:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <3873658.1328464349733.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3873658.1328464349733.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CEB2692766324B-1ECC-1BAD1@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> The old model isn't working for either side at the table. In case of public employees it's government (politicians) on the other side...so I'm certain that's recipe for success in our schools. -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges I don't think that's ever been the role of unions. If management wants to change the rules there's collective bargaining. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Feb 5, 2012 12:48 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Carol, Certainly the problems in many public schools are bigger than a few bad teachers. The majority of unionized teachers are hard working and doing the best they can under trying circumstances. You do know that there are bad teachers who get passed around school to school, but can't be fired? That's not a myth. So I do believe the unions should be less defensive and more proactive. They should do a better job policing their own ranks. They should have a fair and efficient process for weeding out the disengaged and underperforming among their cohort. That's how the unions would become stronger. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Finnegan, I keep hearing this, but I've known a lot of teachers in my career and I've seen very few of these "marking time" teachers -- I think it is one of the myths that's being perpetrated by the enemies of public education. The job is way too hard to do if someone doesn't want to engage with teaching and learning. The way to improve education is to give teachers time to reflect on their practice and continue to develop their understanding of their subject matter and of pedagogy. That's what they do in the countries with the strongest education systems. Carol On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:33 PM, wrote: Amy, The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 5 17:24:33 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 17:24:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: <4F2EAF08.4060900@louisiana.edu> References: <1328402444.61808.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CEB1CE1C3D6234-358-19CD5@webmail-m016.sysops.aol.com> <4F2EAF08.4060900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CEB26C11ECC724-1ECC-1BC1A@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> First Matt Damon's name raised, and now I see William Burroughs is being used in an the 'appeal to authority' tactic. (Seriously, Wm. Burroughs?) Jerry, I'm not about busting unions...I believe in unions. I think they have and can can continue to serve as a valuable counterweight to capitalist excesses. I'm just saying they often are locked in old brain thinking that's not helping them or society as whole. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 4:21 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Well, as Wm Burroughs said (in _The Yage Letters_, and I'm quoting roughly from memory), "They'll continue to blame it on the unions even as they're in process of turning into crustaceans." A union's function is to secure better working conditions for its workers by connecting them in a common understanding of what it means to coordinate their energies to raise the value of their labor in relation to the power to suppress those energies exerted by accumulated capital. There's really nothing in that arrangement (outside of individual intitiative) that has much to do with the actual quality of the work. I'm all for a utopian future, but under a capitalist regime, a union's job is to fight for workers against efforts to exploit them, not to train them or socialize them regarding company--or even social--expectations. My father helped organize International Brotherhood of Paper Makers and Paper Workers local 474 in upstate New York and was its president for its first twenty years and more--the date on the charter, here over my desk, is February 1944. He also took pride in being a meticulous, timely, hard, capable worker, and complained about people who were slack on the job. He said that when he walked into the bosses' office, he could always keep his head up and bargain. As a teacher I've seen irresponsible teaching around me everywhere I've studied and taught, for thirty years now; that includes a lot of high school teachers responsible for producing ill-prepared freshmen. (It also includes huge numbers of students who won't work; ironically, I believe that many of these are in school precisely because they're putting off getting a job.) I also saw shirking people when I was in military service (in fact, I was one of them), and in the factories, restaurants, and retail stores I've worked in. Some of these were unionized, some weren't. Both historical evidence and popular culture record--in every sort of social/political arrangement--evidence of crappy teaching. (My father, again, to the day he died, had burnt into his memory a particular thug who terrorized the kids in the country elementary school in Rossman NY. in the early 'teens.) As far as I can see, unions don't have anything to do with this situation, except that they may provide some ease and confidence in one's job stability, so that a good worker can do good work with a feeling of personal accomplishment and self-respect and a shirker can go on shirking, for whatever reasons lead him/her to that. (My experience is that it comes from feeling that your work lacks meaning or is otherwise alienating--as when I worked building jet-engine parts.) And remember, there are still weekend seminars for academic administrators to help them find shortcuts and fine-print tactics to get rid of tenured faculty. Both in and outside the academy, unions are constantly fighting rear-guard actions of ownership/management to find ways around the protections they've contracted for. It seems over-simple to me to blame unions for the failures of capitalism. Their business isn't to "sell . . . high quality, engaged workers," but to create working conditions in which responsible teachers can _produce_ graduates able to become high quality, engaged workers." In solidarity, Jerry On 2/4/2012 9:33 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Amy, The capitalist model is not likely to fix our underperforming schools. Just as it not fixing much else in society. However, there are 'real teachers' marking time, doing the least they can get away with, and doing no go for their students. Unions will continue to fail until they realize that they too have a 'product' to sell: high quality, engaged workers. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 7:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Yes, thanks for posting, Anny - this hits at least one of the big nails square on the kisser: I suspect that the hedge fund managers behind our charter schools system?whose primary concern is certainly not with education?are delighted to replace real teachers with nonunionized, poorly trained instructors. To truly teach is to instill the values and knowledge which promote the common good and protect a society from the folly of historical amnesia. From: Anny Ballardini https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 18:00:33 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 17:00:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] common reader In-Reply-To: <8CEB2674EF3095B-1ECC-1B9F0@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB1ACBCB77E90-844-21A14@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> <8CEB2674EF3095B-1ECC-1B9F0@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Quite right, and newer ones still coming now and then. One of the pleasures of those is typing out the poems of others, watching them take shape on my darling screen. A habit, btw, learned from Keith Wilson, who often hosted visiting readers/poets in the Las Cruces, NM, area and would prepare himself to introduce them by typing out several of their poems. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 3:50 PM, wrote: > Hal, of our list, often emails poems around (under a subject heading > 'Poems by Others'... > I imagine most he's typed himself. I don't know how many he's got...but > it must be quite a few. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:31 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] common reader > > congratulations, James, > and yes, one poem a day... > let's give it a try_ > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:34 AM, wrote: > >> Today I may have met the elusive, almost legendary, common reader of >> poetry. I was interviewed by New York Times writer who was doing a piece on >> Hartford's Wallace Stevens Walk, which I was instrumental in getting off >> (really on) the ground. >> >> Jeff Gordinier told me he types out one poem a day (almost every day) >> and sends them to his friends. He estimates he's typed over 3500 poems and >> sent them to various people. He talked about the delight he experiences >> when typing the text out and how it gives him a deeper understanding of the >> things at play in the composition. (Of course, that's a good exercise >> other's have suggested; but who really executes the process day in day >> out.) I told him I'd made a pledge to read a poem (new to me) each day, and >> somehow hadn't really been as disciplined (have missed many days) as he >> seems to be. >> >> http://jeffgordinier.com/ >> >> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jeff-gordinier >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Sun Feb 5 19:12:03 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:12:03 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] POEMS ABOUT ART--Jesse Glass Message-ID: Vlaminck On Soutines's "Carcass of Beef" There's one of mine up at Penn Sound about "The Race track" by A. P. Ryder Another's there about Smithson's "Spiral Jetty" and the death of my friend Richard Leidy--"Lament for Richard Leidy" More as I find them, Amy Jess From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 6 06:21:20 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 06:21:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Bob, look at this: Albert Einstein was expelled from school because his attitude had a negative effect on serious students; he failed his university entrance exam and had to attend a trade school for one year before finally being admitted; and was the only one in his graduating class who did not get a teaching position because no professor would recommend him. One professor said Einstein was "the laziest dog" the university ever had. Beethoven's parents were told he was too stupid to be a music composer. Charles Darwin's colleagues called him a fool and what he was doing "fool's experiments" when he worked on his theory of biological evolution. Walt Disney was fired from his first job on a newspaper because "he lacked imagination." Thomas Edison had only two years of formal schooling, was totally deaf in one ear and was hard of hearing in the other, was fired from his first job as a newsboy and later fired from his job as a telegrapher; and still he became the most famous inventor in the history of the U.S. And this explains my problems at New-Poetry? I do believe that creative people have trouble fitting in, particularly into schools, and that educators don?t know what to do with them, being in the business, most of them, of indoctrination, a main enemy of creativity. If you wish the whole thing: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-thinkering/201112/twelve-things-you-were-not-taught-in-school-about-creative-thinking Have just skimmed it so far, Anny, but I am pretty sure I disagree with it almost 100%. It starts, ?You are creative. The artist is not a special person, each one of us is a special kind of artist. Every one of us is born a creative, spontaneous thinker.? This is absolute bs. The expert on creativity simply tells people what they want to believe, that to be creative all they have to do is believe they are. But all the poets in the academy of American poets believe they are creative even though?you know what I?ll be saying?no more than two or three has ever tried anything a reasonable observer would call significantly creative. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Feb 6 12:54:42 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 09:54:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcing REVOLUTIONESQUE! 108 poets + Naropa Message-ID: <1328550882.62584.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Announcing Esque -?http://esquemag.org For the third issue of?esque, REVOLUTIONESQUE, we asked you to tell us about the revolution. We didn?t?define what we mean by that. Whether it lives in your home, in the financial district, or the district of your heart, you defined your revolution and told us what it is. Here are y/our findings. 108 poets talk about the revolution: Alex Dimitrov Alex Rieser Amanda Deutch Amber West Amish Trivedi Amy Lawless Anja Mutic Anne Fisher-Wirth Annie Finch Becca Klaver Betsy Wheeler Bonnie MacAllister Brad Liening Brenda Iijima Brian Howe Cara Benson Ching-In Chen Chris Martin Chris Pusateri Christina Davis Claudia Serea Cynthia Arrieu-King Dale Smith Dan Hoy Dana Teen Lomax Danniel Schoonebeek David Baratier David Brazil David Buuck Diane di Prima Donna Fleischer Dot Devota Dustin Luke Nelson E.C. Messer Elise Ficarra Elizabeth Treadwell Emily Kendal Frey Erin Lyndal Martin Evie Shockley Filip Marinovich Franklin Bruno Gloria Frym Hank Lazer Harold Abramowitz Hugh Behm-Steinberg J/J Hastain Jan Clausen Jan Heller Levi Jared White Jeffrey Grunthaner Jennifer Karmin Jennifer Mackenzie Jessica Reed Jocelyn Lieu John Ashbery John Colburn Jon Cotner Joshua Ware Kate Schapira Kathleen Ossip Kimberly Alidio Kristin Prevallet Krystal Languell Larry Sawyer Lars Palm Laura Carter Laura Hinton Lauren DeGaine Laynie Browne Liesel Tarquini Lily Brown Lisa Samuels M. G. Stephens Magus Magnus Maryam Alikhani Matt Clifford Maya Pindyck Meena Alexander Megan Volpert Michelle Detorie Mike Palmer Nicholas DeBoer Nikki Wallschlaeger Noelle Kocot Ossian Foley Paige Taggart Patricia Spears Jones Paul Cunningham Paula Cisewski Peter Ciccariello Phillip Griffith Piotr Gwiazda Rachel Eliza Griffiths Rachel Levitsky Ray Gonzalez Richard Loranger Ricky Ray Rita Stein Rob MacDonald Sara Jane Stoner Sharon Mesmer Sophie Podolski trans. Paul Legault Stephanie Gray Thom Donovan Todd Colby Tony Mancus Vincent Katz Zvonko Karanovic trans. Ana Bozicevic ? With a special Naropa section featuring: Allan Andre Angela Stubbs Ariella Ruth Jessica Hagemann Lauren Artiles Lindsay Miller Matthew Wedlock Meryl DePasquale Please share widely, with gratitude, Amy King & Ana Bozicevic http://www.esquemag.org/ ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Feb 6 13:35:37 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:35:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] POEMS ABOUT ART--Jesse Glass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1328553337.40373.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks very much, Jess! ?Adding them... ________________________________ From: "ahadada at gol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] POEMS ABOUT ART--Jesse Glass Vlaminck On Soutines's "Carcass of Beef" There's one of mine up at Penn Sound about "The Race track" by A. P. Ryder Another's there about Smithson's "Spiral Jetty" and the death of my friend Richard Leidy--"Lament for Richard Leidy" More as I find them, Amy Jess _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 14:18:24 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:18:24 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] an interesting blog with interesting pictures Message-ID: http://xineann.wordpress.com/page/2/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 14:20:34 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:20:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: You know what I find funny Bob, that I can really guess what you are going to say. Although you are creative although you are personal in your creativity On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:21 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > Bob, look at this: > > Albert Einstein was expelled from school because his attitude had a > negative effect on serious students; he failed his university entrance exam > and had to attend a trade school for one year before finally being > admitted; and was the only one in his graduating class who did not get a > teaching position because no professor would recommend him. One professor > said Einstein was "the laziest dog" the university ever had. Beethoven's > parents were told he > was too stupid to be a music composer. Charles Darwin's colleagues called > him a fool and what he was doing "fool's experiments" when he worked on his > theory of biological evolution. Walt Disney was fired from his first job on > a newspaper because "he lacked imagination." Thomas Edison had only two > years of formal schooling, was totally deaf in one ear and was hard of > hearing in the other, was fired from his first job as a newsboy and later > fired from his job as a telegrapher; and still he became the most famous > inventor in the history of the U.S. > And this explains my problems at New-Poetry? I do believe that creative > people have trouble fitting in, particularly into schools, and that > educators don?t know what to do with them, being in the business, most of > them, of indoctrination, a main enemy of creativity. > > > If you wish the whole thing: > > http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creative-thinkering/201112/twelve-things-you-were-not-taught-in-school-about-creative-thinking > > Have just skimmed it so far, Anny, but I am pretty sure I disagree with it > almost 100%. It starts, ?*You are creative*. The artist is not a special > person, each one of us is a special kind of artist. Every one of us is born > a creative, spontaneous thinker.? This is absolute bs. The expert on > creativity simply tells people what they want to believe, that to be > creative all they have to do is believe they are. But all the poets in the > academy of American poets believe they are creative even though?you know > what I?ll be saying?no more than two or three has ever tried anything a > reasonable observer would call significantly creative. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 14:17:46 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:17:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] No Message-ID: P Swartzfager - Feb 3, 2012 - Mobile - Public No Women on Facebook Board: Though most of 800 million users are female. http://t.co/L48JqmtH #cheatsheet-- pswartzpk (@pswartzpk) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Mon Feb 6 15:29:11 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:29:11 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about ART--Winter Arguments by Anne Pitkin Message-ID: Three fine poems by Anne Pitkin on ART: The Use of the Decorative (Matisse) Jazz (Matisse) and Man Staggering, Bronze (Giacometti) from her book Winter Arguments--Ahadada Books. Available via SPD. Jess From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Feb 6 15:52:29 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:52:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art Message-ID: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> Came across this, from Hayden Carruth, in an old notebook of mine. It occurs to me I spent about 5 years trying to imitate this poem. Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey Scrambled eggs and whiskey in the false-dawn light. Chicago, a sweet town, bleak, God knows, but sweet. Sometimes. And weren't we fine tonight? When Hank set up that limping treble roll behind me my horn just growled and I thought my heart would burst. And Brad M. pressing with the soft stick and Joe-Anne singing low. Here we are now in the White Tower, leaning on one another, too tired to go home. But don't say a word, don't tell a soul, they wouldn't understand, they couldn't, never in a million years, how fine, how magnificent we were in that old club tonight. www.mikesnider.org From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 16:12:31 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 22:12:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art In-Reply-To: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> References: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: I love this one, :-) On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 9:52 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > Came across this, from Hayden Carruth, in an old notebook of mine. It > occurs to me I spent about 5 years trying to imitate this poem. > > > Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey > > > Scrambled eggs and whiskey > in the false-dawn light. Chicago, > a sweet town, bleak, God knows, > but sweet. Sometimes. And > weren't we fine tonight? > When Hank set up that limping > treble roll behind me > my horn just growled and I > thought my heart would burst. > And Brad M. pressing with the > soft stick and Joe-Anne > singing low. Here we are now > in the White Tower, leaning > on one another, too tired > to go home. But don't say a word, > don't tell a soul, they wouldn't > understand, they couldn't, > never in a million years, how fine, > how magnificent we were > in that old club tonight. > > > www.mikesnider.org > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Feb 6 16:23:59 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:23:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art In-Reply-To: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> References: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> The John Logan ekphrastic poems I mentioned to you before, Amy, are "Three Poems on Morris Graves' Paintings"; they're in _The Zigzag Walk_. Best, Jerry PS Creeley did quite a bit of this stuff. I have a collection at home, and will try to find some appropriate titles for you. JM -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html ______________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Feb 6 16:30:50 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:30:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art Message-ID: From Marianne Moore, there is, of course "Poetry," but I think I like better this one I found today looking through a 1950 Oxford Book of American Verse, "When I Buy Pictures." Couldn't type it out but did find a link to the text: http://library.crisischronicles.com/2009/05/08/when-i-buy-pictures-by-marianne-moore.aspx I spent a little time just browsing the book and was reminded of William Carlos Williams "The Dance" Frank O'Hara "Why I Am Not A Painter" Charles Wright "Homage to Paul Cezanne" From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 6 16:31:37 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:31:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges In-Reply-To: References: <3957813.1328455615198.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 2:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges You know what I find funny Bob, that I can really guess what you are going to say. Although you are creative although you are personal in your creativity Thanks, Anny?I take what you?re saying for a compliment of my strength of character. Unpredictable periphery around a predictable core. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Feb 6 17:16:13 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 17:16:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art In-Reply-To: <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> References: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <542FFB98-B505-4EDE-8AE0-22A45ABE7B2D@mikesnider.org> from Kay Ryan Easter Island The people of the island built those amazing stone statues, and in the process cut down every last tree. No trees, no wood for houses and fires; no protection from erosion; no useful species, and so on ?John Carroll, San Francisco Chronicle It worked without a hitch: the last big head rolled down the last logs to its niche. As planned, a long chorus of monoliths had replaced the forest, staring seaward, nicely spaced, each with a generous collar of greensward, and prepared to stand so long that it would be a good trade: life, for the thing made. I love the hidden rhymes, especially that last "trade" with "made" From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Feb 6 17:30:30 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 17:30:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art: another Kay Ryan In-Reply-To: <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> References: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <6C87BCFC-26BD-4AF0-931E-BA6FAF421B14@mikesnider.org> I typed this out in a note in the Kindle edition of The Best of It, then copied my note, since Kindle doesn't let you copy text. Any Painting By Chagall Every twined groom and bride, Every air fish,smudged Russian, red horse, yellow chicken, assumes its position not actually beside but insome friendly distribution with a predictable companion. Every canvas insists on a similar looseness, each neck put to at least two uses. And wings from some bottomless wing source. They are pleasure wings of course since any horse or violinist may mount the blue simply by wanting to. (In freedom, dear things repeat without tedium.) From richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu Mon Feb 6 17:50:08 2012 From: richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu (Wilsnack, Richard) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 14:50:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art Message-ID: Kay Ryan's poem about Chagall reminded me of the one by Lawrence Ferlinghetti: Don't let that horse eat that violin cried Chagall's mother But he kept right on painting And became famous And kept on painting The Horse With Violin In Mouth And when he finally finished it he jumped up upon the horse and rode away waving the violin And then with a low bow gave it to the first naked nude he ran across Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 6 18:41:56 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 18:41:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: & here In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEB3400BFC5512-9FC-21EAF@webmail-d071.sysops.aol.com> From: Jeff Gordinier To: jforjames Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2012 3:02 pm Subject: & here . . . is a story the Times published last October about how a single poem compelled me to hop a plane for Scotland: http://travel.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/travel/poetry-made-me-do-it-my-trip-to-the-hebrides.html?pagewanted=all -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 19:39:11 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:39:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art: another Kay Ryan In-Reply-To: <6C87BCFC-26BD-4AF0-931E-BA6FAF421B14@mikesnider.org> References: <86F5B1A6-0746-4CFD-90FD-75FAEE79A453@mikesnider.org> <4F3044EF.3010604@louisiana.edu> <6C87BCFC-26BD-4AF0-931E-BA6FAF421B14@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: I love those last two lines -- also the audacity to generalize. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > I typed this out in a note in the Kindle edition of The Best of It, then > copied my note, since Kindle doesn't let you copy text. > > > > Any Painting By Chagall > > > Every twined groom and bride, > Every air fish,smudged Russian, > red horse, yellow chicken, assumes > its position not actually beside > but insome friendly distribution > with a predictable companion. > Every canvas insists on a > similar looseness, > each neck > put to at least two uses. And wings > from some bottomless wing source. > They are pleasure wings of course > since any horse or violinist > may mount the blue > simply by wanting to. > (In freedom, dear things > repeat without tedium.) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 19:41:19 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:41:19 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Marianne Moore* *When I Buy Pictures* or what is closer to the truth, when I look at that of which I may regard myself as the imaginary possessor, I fix upon what would give me pleasure in my average moments: the satire upon curiousity in which no more is discernible than the intensity of the mood; or quite the opposite?the old thing, the medieval decorated hat-box, in which there are hounds with waists diminishing like the waist of the hour-glass, and deer and birds and seated people; it may be no more than a square of parquetry; the literal biography perhaps, in letters standing well apart upon a parchment-like expanse; an artichoke in six varieties of blue; the snipe-legged hieroglyphic in three parts; the silver fence protecting Adam's grave, or Michael taking Adam by the wrist. Too stern an intellectual emphasis upon this quality or that detracts from one's enjoyment. It must not wish to disarm anything; nor may the approved triumph easily be honored? that which is great because something else is small. It comes to this: of whatever sort it is, it must be "lit with piercing glances into the life of things"; it must acknowledge the spiritual forces which have made it. [poem appears in *The Complete Poems of Marianne Moore* (New York: MacMillan/Viking, 1967), but was first published in *Dial* (Jan. 1921)] On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > From Marianne Moore, there is, of course "Poetry," but I think I like > better this one I found today looking through a 1950 Oxford Book of > American Verse, "When I Buy Pictures." Couldn't type it out but did find a > link to the text: > > > > http://library.crisischronicles.com/2009/05/08/when-i-buy-pictures-by-marianne-moore.aspx > > I spent a little time just browsing the book and was reminded of William > Carlos Williams "The Dance" > > > Frank O'Hara "Why I Am Not A Painter" > > Charles Wright "Homage to Paul Cezanne" > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Feb 7 08:39:10 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:39:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about Art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F31297E.9090007@louisiana.edu> Here's the reference I was trying to find for you, Amy: _In Company: Robert Creeley's Collaborations_. It's put out by the Castellani Museum of Niagara University/Weatherspoon Art Gallery, so I doubt there are a lot of copies around (though of course check Bookfinder.com). It's got some great reproductions of drawings, paintings, sculptures, etc. and the poems that respond to them. Best, Jerry On 2/6/2012 6:41 PM, carol dorf wrote: > > *Marianne Moore* > > *When I Buy Pictures* > > or what is closer to the truth, > when I look at that of which I may regard myself as the imaginary > possessor, > I fix upon what would give me pleasure in my average moments: > the satire upon curiousity in which no more is discernible > than the intensity of the mood; > or quite the opposite---the old thing, the medieval decorated hat-box, > in which there are hounds with waists diminishing like the waist of > the hour-glass, > and deer and birds and seated people; > it may be no more than a square of parquetry; the literal biography > perhaps, > in letters standing well apart upon a parchment-like expanse; > an artichoke in six varieties of blue; the snipe-legged hieroglyphic > in three parts; > the silver fence protecting Adam's grave, or Michael taking Adam by > the wrist. > Too stern an intellectual emphasis upon this quality or that detracts > from one's enjoyment. > It must not wish to disarm anything; nor may the approved triumph > easily be honored--- > that which is great because something else is small. > It comes to this: of whatever sort it is, > it must be "lit with piercing glances into the life of things"; > it must acknowledge the spiritual forces which have made it. > > > [poem appears in /The Complete Poems of Marianne Moore/ (New York: > MacMillan/Viking, 1967), but was first published in /Dial/ (Jan. 1921)] > > > -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 7 12:45:04 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:45:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times Message-ID: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> http://english.la.psu.edu/graduate/mfa-program The English Department regretfully announces that beginning with the Fall 2012 admission cycle, it is no longer accepting applications for its MFA program. We are unable to provide funding for newly admitted students; therefore, the MFA faculty has decided not to recruit any new students. We will continue to support all currently funded students as they complete their degrees. The teaching and nurturing of creative writing has long been a vital mission for the English department. We offer strong undergraduate creative writing classes and host reading series by prominent writers. We are exploring other options for creative writing at the graduate level in the future. Questions regarding pending applications should be directed to Mark Morrisson, Interim Head of English. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 14:05:56 2012 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 13:05:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] A reading in Paris Message-ID: _____________________________________ UPSTAIRS AT DUROC (the Paris literary journal) invites you to a LAUNCH READING for its Issue # 13 Come pick up your copy and listen to new work by JANE COPE KIT FRYATT PANSY MAURER ALVAREZ JOE ROSS Thursday February 9, 2012, 7:00 p.m. Berkeley Books of Paris, 8 rue Casimir Delavigne, 75006 Paris, M?tro Od?on JANE COPE is a Midwestern transplant to Paris where she is currently at work on a narrative sequence. KIT FRYATT lectures in English in Mater Dei Institute of Education, Dublin, and organizes the activities of the Irish Centre for Poetry Studies. Extracurricularly, she runs the Wurm im Apfel reading series and the associated Wurm Press. She is also the Curator for the Red Jasper Press in Dublin. Kit won the Stinging Fly prize for the best individual piece of writing in The Stinging Fly magazine in 2009. Her work has appeared in Poetry Ireland Review, The Shop, The Argotist Online, Digital Behemoth and elsewhere, and she has performed at many poetry festivals including Electric Picnic, the Flat Lake Festival and Hunters Moon Festival (Ireland). PANSY MAURER-ALVAREZ has lived in Europe since 1973. Her poetry appears in anthologies & numerous magazines internationally. A chapbook, Ant-Small and Amorous, with French translations by Anne Talvaz, recently came out from Corrupt Press, Paris. Her other collections are: Dolores: The Alpine Years and When the Body Says It?s Leaving (both from Hanging Loose Press, Brooklyn); and an artist?s collaboration, Lovers Eternally Nearing (Editions Thomas Howeg, Zurich). She is a Contributing Editor for the British magazine Tears in the Fence. JOE ROSS is the author of twelve books of poetry, most recently Wordlick (Green Integer Press, 2011) and Strata (Dusie Press, 2008). He has also published Fractured // Connections . . . , bilingual Italian/English (La Camera Verde Press) and EQUATIONS = equals (Green Integer Press, 2004). Former Literary Editor of the arts bi-monthly The Washington Review from 1991-1997, and co-founder of both the In Your Ear reading series in Washington, D.C. and the Beyond the Page reading series in San Diego, CA, he received a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship Award for his poetry in 1997 and is the three time winner of the Gertrude Stein Poetry Award in 2003, 2005, and 2006. He presently resides in Paris. Check out Wurm im Apfel poetry events and Wurm Press publications at ... http://wurmimapfel.net. _____________________________________ Regards, S?amas Cain http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain _____________________________________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 15:26:53 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 21:26:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Friday opening at June Kelly Gallery- CMartinPhotography: Manhattan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Open the show this Friday! June Kelly Gallery ?MANHATTAN? Charles Martin Photographs These recent photographs take up the city?s everyday poetry, sights and details. Entries and barriers, claustrophobia and expanse. By day, by night, harmony and disarray, nature and concrete. Enjoy looking! ::::: http://www.junekellygallery.com/martin/index.html :::: June Kelly Gallery 166 Mercer Street New York, NY 10012 February 10 - March 6, 2012 RECEPTION: 6-8pm, Friday, February 10 ::::: Charles Martin?s photography is part of museum, public and corporate collections including the Museum of Modern Art (New York). Group exhibitions include the Museum of Modern Art, the Brooklyn Museum of Art, the Smithsonian Institution and numerous colleges and universities. Solo exhibitions in the United States, Paris and Brazil include June Kelly Gallery (New York), Newhouse Center?Snug Harbor Cultural Center (Staten Island), Henry Street Settlement (New York), Cinque Gallery (New York), Mus?e de la Halle St. Pierre (Paris) and many colleges. Apart from photography, Martin is a filmmaker and writes. His work includes music video, documentary, essays and poetry. At Queens College?City University of New York, he is Associate Professor of Comparative Literature and past chair of the department. He has also taught in the Department of African American Studies at Brown University, in English at West Virginia University, and in Portuguese at Yale. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 7 15:47:32 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:47:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanks for the mention, Harriet! Message-ID: <1328647652.30574.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Let?s Read Revolutionesque http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2012/02/lets-read-revolutionesque/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 16:52:44 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 22:52:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sad news. On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 6:45 PM, wrote: > http://english.la.psu.edu/graduate/mfa-program > > The English Department regretfully announces that beginning with the > Fall 2012 admission cycle, it is no longer accepting applications for its > MFA program. We are unable to provide funding for newly admitted students; > therefore, the MFA faculty has decided not to recruit any new students. We > will continue to support all currently funded students as they complete > their degrees. > The teaching and nurturing of creative writing has long been a vital > mission for the English department. We offer strong undergraduate creative > writing classes and host reading series by prominent writers. We are > exploring other options for creative writing at the graduate level in the > future. > Questions regarding pending applications should be directed to Mark > Morrisson, Interim Head of English. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 7 17:14:19 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 17:14:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Indie Book Awards Message-ID: <8CEB3FCF8ADE751-226C-52EE@webmail-d020.sysops.aol.com> http://www.indiebookawards.com/2011_winners_and_finalists.php POETRY WINNER ($100 PRIZE): Karla K. Morton: New and Selected Poems, by Karla K. Morton (Texas Christian University Press) (ISBN 978-0875654140) FINALISTS: Calling, by Sharon Chmielarz (Loonfeather Press) (ISBN 978-0926147294) For and Against, by Sharon McCartney (Goose Lane Editions) (ISBN 978-0864925398) Lessons in Forgetting, by Malaika King Albrecht (Main Street Rag) (ISBN 978-1599482453) Weary Blues, by Maureen Sherbondy (Big Table Publishing) (ISBN 978-0984247387) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Feb 7 20:56:33 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 17:56:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad? ?(I've heard it numerous times on this list.) ?Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. JohnJ >________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 12:45 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times > > >http://english.la.psu.edu/graduate/mfa-program > > >The English Department regretfully announces that beginning with the Fall 2012 admission cycle, it is no longer accepting applications for its MFA program.? We are unable to provide funding for newly admitted students; therefore, the MFA faculty has decided not to recruit any new students.? We will continue to support all currently funded students as they complete their degrees. >The teaching and nurturing of creative writing has long been a vital mission for the English department. We offer strong undergraduate creative writing classes and host reading series by prominent writers. We are exploring other options for creative writing at the graduate level in the future. >Questions regarding pending applications should be directed to Mark Morrisson, Interim Head of English. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 7 21:54:55 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 21:54:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wendell Berry selected to give 2012 Jefferson Lecture Message-ID: <8CEB4242BFD4086-2E6C-837F@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/arts-post/post/wendell-berry-poet-and-conservationist-selected-to-give-2012-jefferson-lecture/2012/02/06/gIQAgjo3wQ_blog.html Wendell Berry, poet and conservationist, selected to give 2012 Jefferson Lecture By Jacqueline Trescott It?s still a few months off, but mark your calendars now for April 23. Don?t miss the opportunity to see Wendell E. Berry at the Kennedy Center, where he?ll be giving the Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities, an annual honor, sponsored by the National Endowment for the Humanities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 7 22:20:52 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 22:20:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sir Edward Burne-Jones Message-ID: <8CEB427CBDF473C-2E6C-85D0@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/feb/23/beautiful-aesthetic-erotic/ He sensed this, and was defiant. When a studio assistant told him that French Impressionism was not ?based on literature,? he snapped, ?What do they mean by that? Landscape and whores? That?s what they want?nothing but landscape or if any figure pictures more or less languid whores.? His own paintings, he added, were ?so different to landscape paintings. I don?t want to copy objects; I want to tell people something.? The exhibition staged by the Tate Gallery in June 1933 to mark the centenary of his birth was therefore something of a bittersweet occasion. Among those present at the private viewing was the artist?s old friend the collector and aesthete W. Graham Robertson, who looked around at his fellow guests and saw ?a little crowd of forlorn old survivals paying their last homage to the beauty and poetry now utterly scorned and rejected.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 23:54:29 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 05:54:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: UNO Press at AWP In-Reply-To: <301130ba024c988e19577c2fb47f3fdfbf4.20120207215032@mail52.us1.mcsv.net> References: <301130ba024c988e19577c2fb47f3fdfbf4.20120207215032@mail52.us1.mcsv.net> Message-ID: ** UNO Press at AWP Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. [image: UNO Press] For those of you who will be at AWP in Chicago... Be sure to stop by the UNO Press booth, #412, in the Bookfair. And... Reading featuring UNO Press authors (and editor) Wednesday, February 29, 6 PM Third Coast Cafe. 1260 North Dearborn *Rob Smith,* reading from *The Gravedigger *(Gold Medal Winner, Faulkner-Wisdom Award) The Gravedigger is a wry, soulful glimpse of how one good but lonely man's quiet existence is turned upside down by a late and unexpected love. Rob Magnuson Smith paints a funny, sad, gentle yet ferocious portrait of village life. ? Stewart O?Nan *Caitlin Scholl*, reading from *Makebelieve* Truly revolutionary and innovative, Caitlin Scholl's *Makebelieve* is a manifestation of a new era of poetry which is utterly fluent across genre, medium and discipline.... I predict the quilt of this book will unfold for a long time to come, and will affect our poetic territories in radical ways we have yet to imagine. ?Lee Ann Brown *Ray Bianchi,* reading from his translation of Sergio Medieros' *Vegetal Sex * Nominated for the prestigious Jabuti Prize, famous Brazilian poet Sergio Medeiros appears in English for the first time from UNO press. In this translation by Bianchi, plant life and inanimate objects assume qualities of the erotic, are given the attentiveness of a lover or, perhaps more accurately, a voyeur lurking in shadow. *Bill Lavender,* reading from *Memory Wing *(Black Widow Press) *...*a contemporary autobiographical masterpiece. ?Rodger Kamenetz ... a grand American long poem Doc Williams would be proud of. ?Andrei Codrescu follow on Twitter | friend on Facebook | forward to a friend *Copyright ? 2012 UNO Press, All rights reserved.* You are on this mailing list because you are a member of one or more of UNO Press's editorial boards. *Our mailing address is:* UNO Press University of New Orleans, LA 138 New Orleans, LA 70148 Add us to your address book [image: Email Marketing Powered by MailChimp] unsubscribe from this list| update subscription preferences -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 8 06:31:21 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 06:31:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1D357B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> From: John Jeffrey Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:56 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.) Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. JohnJ Just so long as they don?t junk all of them. We have to have some way of identifying genuine poets. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Feb 8 07:46:17 2012 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 12:46:17 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sir Edward Burne-Jones In-Reply-To: <8CEB427CBDF473C-2E6C-85D0@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB427CBDF473C-2E6C-85D0@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I thought this article was fascinating, too... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu From: jforjames at aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 22:20:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sir Edward Burne-Jones http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/feb/23/beautiful-aesthetic-erotic/ He sensed this, and was defiant. When a studio assistant told him that French Impressionism was not ?based on literature,? he snapped, ?What do they mean by that? Landscape and whores? That?s what they want?nothing but landscape or if any figure pictures more or less languid whores.? His own paintings, he added, were ?so different to landscape paintings. I don?t want to copy objects; I want to tell people something.? The exhibition staged by the Tate Gallery in June 1933 to mark the centenary of his birth was therefore something of a bittersweet occasion. Among those present at the private viewing was the artist?s old friend the collector and aesthete W. Graham Robertson, who looked around at his fellow guests and saw ?a little crowd of forlorn old survivals paying their last homage to the beauty and poetry now utterly scorned and rejected.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 09:05:45 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 06:05:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <1D357B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1D357B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> Message-ID: <1328709945.2232.YahooMailNeo@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Bob, Bob, Bob, don't be so modest.? We have you! >________________________________ > From: bob grumman >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:31 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times > > >? >From: John Jeffrey >Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:56 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times >? But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad?? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.)? Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. > > >JohnJ >? >Just so long as they don?t junk all of them.? We have to have some way of identifying genuine poets. >? >--Bob >? > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 8 09:49:51 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 09:49:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: last poet of Viet Nam's New Poetry dies Message-ID: <8CEB4880BFCDDBE-15E8-20F4@webmail-d158.sysops.aol.com> http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/Life-Style/220516/the-last-poet-of-viet-nams-new-poetry-dies.html The last poet of Viet Nam's New Poetry dies HA NOI ? Xuan Tam, the last poet of Viet Nam's Tho Moi (New Poetry) movement has died in Ha Noi at the age of 97. His funeral was held today. Xuan Tam dedicated his life to poetry, especially the Tho Moi movement, which began in the early 20th century by young intellectuals influenced by Western literature introduced to Viet Nam by the French. His peers included popular poets Te Hanh, Xuan Dieu, The Lu and Luu Trong Lu, who created and used language and unique phrases to express their ideas and to break away from the country's feudalist past. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 8 10:19:24 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:19:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEB48C2CD5A402-15E8-25A7@webmail-d158.sysops.aol.com> Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 11:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.) Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 12:45 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times http://english.la.psu.edu/graduate/mfa-program The English Department regretfully announces that beginning with the Fall 2012 admission cycle, it is no longer accepting applications for its MFA program. We are unable to provide funding for newly admitted students; therefore, the MFA faculty has decided not to recruit any new students. We will continue to support all currently funded students as they complete their degrees. The teaching and nurturing of creative writing has long been a vital mission for the English department. We offer strong undergraduate creative writing classes and host reading series by prominent writers. We are exploring other options for creative writing at the graduate level in the future. Questions regarding pending applications should be directed to Mark Morrisson, Interim Head of English. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Feb 8 10:12:47 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 09:12:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <1D357B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1D357B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> Message-ID: Let's see: We've had MFA programs for how long now? And genuine poets? I know, I know. You were being ironical, B-bob. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:31 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* John Jeffrey > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:56 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times > > But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs > were bad? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.) Maybe weeding some > of the weaker ones out is a good thing. > > JohnJ > > Just so long as they don?t junk *all* of them. We have to have *some*way of identifying genuine poets. > > --Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 8 10:26:55 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:26:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <8CEB48C2CD5A402-15E8-25A7@webmail-d158.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com> <1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8CEB48C2CD5A402-15E8-25A7@webmail-d158.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB48D39A0CACE-15E8-2714@webmail-d158.sysops.aol.com> Try that again... It doesn't sound like they have a lack of students/applicants. Just a lack of money in their budget to fund the students they accept. I wonder how much subsidy a student typically gets? And I wonder what the total budget for a full-time MFA program is? And how that compares to the budget for low-res program. Note: this option is still available to students... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2009/07/low-responsibility-mfa.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 11:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.) Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 12:45 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times http://english.la.psu.edu/graduate/mfa-program The English Department regretfully announces that beginning with the Fall 2012 admission cycle, it is no longer accepting applications for its MFA program. We are unable to provide funding for newly admitted students; therefore, the MFA faculty has decided not to recruit any new students. We will continue to support all currently funded students as they complete their degrees. The teaching and nurturing of creative writing has long been a vital mission for the English department. We offer strong undergraduate creative writing classes and host reading series by prominent writers. We are exploring other options for creative writing at the graduate level in the future. Questions regarding pending applications should be directed to Mark Morrisson, Interim Head of English. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 8 10:32:02 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:32:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: <1328709945.2232.YahooMailNeo@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com><1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><1D3 57B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> <1328709945.2232.YahooMailNeo@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:05 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times Bob, Bob, Bob, don't be so modest. We have you! Thanks, John?but I should have said, ?We have to have a way for everybody to identify a genuine poet.? --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bob grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times From: John Jeffrey Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:56 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times But I thought that all those too many creative writing MFA programs were bad? (I've heard it numerous times on this list.) Maybe weeding some of the weaker ones out is a good thing. JohnJ Just so long as they don?t junk all of them. We have to have some way of identifying genuine poets. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 8 10:40:24 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:40:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB3D75B5A9133-26F8-3DF2@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com><1328666193.397.YahooMailNeo@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><1D3 57B0360944C49B845E24A36555D6A@BobHP> Message-ID: <898AED01E7724494B8F47CEE1620F29A@BobHP> From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:12 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sign of the times Let's see: We've had MFA programs for how long now? And genuine poets? I know, I know. You were being ironical, B-bob. Half-true, Hal. But my sense of the field from the number of chapbooks and magazines I?m now reading as a Small Press Review reviewer, and Finnegan?s announcement of prizes, is that much more recognition of younger poets is going to MFAs than to poets without MFAs. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Feb 8 13:15:44 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:15:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall Message-ID: "However alert we are, antiquity remains an unknown, unanticipated galaxy," he writes. "It is alien, and old people are a separate form of life. ... They can be pleasant, they can be annoying, ... but most important they are permanently other. When we turn eighty, we understand that we are extraterrestrial. ... People's response to our separateness can be callous, can be good-hearted, and is always condescending." http://www.npr.org/2012/02/08/146348759/donald-hall-a-poets-view-out-the-window# -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Feb 8 16:06:41 2012 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:06:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I turned extraterrestrial early and I'll have to best that when I'm 83. - Jim On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > "However alert we are, antiquity remains an unknown, unanticipated > galaxy," he writes. "It is alien, and old people are a separate form of > life. ... They can be pleasant, they can be annoying, ... but most > important they are permanently other. When we turn eighty, we understand > that we are extraterrestrial. ... People's response to our separateness can > be callous, can be good-hearted, and is always condescending." > > http://www.npr.org/2012/02/08/146348759/donald-hall-a-poets-view-out-the-window# > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Wed Feb 8 16:04:52 2012 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22e=B7ratio=22?=) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:04:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph F. Keppler's thoughts on poet Ralph La Charity who chastises Tom Beckett Message-ID: Joseph F. Keppler's thoughts on poet Ralph La Charity who chastises Tom Beckett http://eratio.blogspot.com/ Joseph F. Keppler?s essay, The Mallarm? Project, an examination of a yearlong series of art and writing in Seattle, will appear in E?ratio issue 15. Also coming in E?ratio issue 15, The Susan Bee Interview. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Ed., E?ratio From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 19:20:53 2012 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:20:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?An_T=E1in_-_An_Irish_legend_retold_ag?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ain_in_rhyme?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1328746853.96926.YahooMailClassic@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> As part of a project for the Cruachain Ai interpretive centre in Roscommon Ireland, a series of poetry videos / cinepoetry is in preparation, the first trial of which is now online at Youtube. The poem I wrote, and features a reading by Celtic heritage activist Carmel Diviney and music by Daniel O Connor. As a beta video, there is a bit of interference in the reading, but what the hell. Tell me what you think of it... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 19:24:00 2012 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:24:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?An_T=E1in_-_An_Irish_legend_retold_ag?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ain_in_rhyme?= In-Reply-To: <1328746853.96926.YahooMailClassic@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328747040.15236.YahooMailClassic@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It would have helped to include the link to the item itself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_086Ihw3hrI ? ? --- On Thu, 9/2/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: As part of a project for the Cruachain Ai interpretive centre in Roscommon Ireland, a series of poetry videos / cinepoetry is in preparation, the first trial of which is now online at Youtube. The poem I wrote, and features a reading by Celtic heritage activist Carmel Diviney and music by Daniel O Connor. As a beta video, there is a bit of interference in the reading, but what the hell. Tell me what you think of it... -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 8 20:31:07 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 20:31:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Crush: Valentine Issue Message-ID: <8CEB4E1A151162C-23E8-4B67@webmail-d176.sysops.aol.com> http://poetrycrush.com/2012/02/05/poetry-crush-valentine-issue/ I asked the authors from Hyacinth Girl Press to share their favorite erotic poems and here is the result. I must say that the list is more than I hoped for and incredibly diverse and that I learned a lot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthewlippman at gmail.com Wed Feb 8 20:53:42 2012 From: matthewlippman at gmail.com (Matthew Lippman) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 20:53:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Please post this message. Many thanks. Message-ID: Nationally acclaimed poet, Matthew Lippman, author of *Monkey Bars*(Typecast Publishing) and *The New Year of Yellow* (Sarabande Books) runs One To One Poetry Workshops. These 8 week sessions focus on intense critiques of individual poems with a focus on craft, voice and authenticity. If interested, please email him at matthewlippman at gmail.com. Visit his website at www.matthewlippman.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 9 14:19:30 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 11:19:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] PEN Roundup: Leaps and Sounds Message-ID: <1328815170.91081.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> New PEN poetry roundup featuring fresh journals! Paging The Volta, TYPO, Free Verse, Claudius App, ILK, Lana Turner & textsound... with Kazim Ali, Pierre Joris, Dawn Lundy Martin, Mathias Svalina, Bronwen Tate, Heather Christle, Paige Taggart & others... PEN? Roundup -- http://www.pen.org/blog/?p=8595 Plus, Beauty Is a Verb: The New Poetry of Disability - http://www.pen.org/blog/?tag=beauty-is-a-verb-the-new-poetry-of-disability Enjoy! ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 18:35:54 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 17:35:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Memo Message-ID: * * * * *th(t)o(s)u(o)gh(l)t* Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 9 19:56:36 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:56:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My blog entry for yesterday has a few Fairchild journal entries that I argue with in my entry for today at http://poeticks.com. I think most New-Poetry participants will like them. One or two may find my comments on them interesting, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 9 19:51:55 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:51:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Memo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35A26D08D91146F5A4EB23A79FAF4F6F@BobHP> th(t)o(s)u(o)gh(l)t Warning: you?re in infraverbal poetry territory, Hal?that?s to the left of Wilshberia. Wave good-bye to Jeff. (Just joking, Jeff.) Hey, I was just going to admit I didn?t get it, but then I, uh, reversed myself. This one?s good enough for me to steal for a blog entry?unless you protest. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 20:03:46 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:03:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Memo In-Reply-To: <35A26D08D91146F5A4EB23A79FAF4F6F@BobHP> References: <35A26D08D91146F5A4EB23A79FAF4F6F@BobHP> Message-ID: I must have missed the roadsign. No objections. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:51 PM, bob grumman wrote: > * > * > * > * > *th(t)o(s)u(o)gh(l)t* > > > Warning: you?re in infraverbal poetry territory, Hal?that?s to the left of > Wilshberia. Wave good-bye to Jeff. (Just joking, Jeff.) > > Hey, I was just going to admit I didn?t get it, but then I, uh, reversed > myself. This one?s good enough for me to steal for a blog entry?unless you > protest. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Feb 10 12:33:16 2012 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:33:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] LIttle Mags in the Times Message-ID: Ten print journals get a boost from the Times. Of course, I read this in the Times online. http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/literary-heirs/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Feb 10 13:15:27 2012 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22e=B7ratio=22?=) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:15:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MEMO Message-ID: Lost in thought? Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Serving those who serve. http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ From halvard at gmail.com Fri Feb 10 13:41:35 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:41:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] MEMO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am. You know I am. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:15 PM, "e?ratio" < editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com> wrote: > Lost in thought? > > > Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino > > Serving those who serve. > > http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 10 13:51:05 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:51:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MEMO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7A18FD083BFE4860A2E103A756F7F5F1@BobHP> -----Original Message----- From: "e?ratio" Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:15 PM To: New-Poetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] MEMO Lost in thought? Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Lo t s more than that --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 10 16:13:19 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:13:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1328908399.13246.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Bob, I'm sure you haven't proof read these comments. Are you determined to stick by them? Compare the clumsy ?novel? in the Bible about David with almost any competent commercial novel of today, for instance.? Consider how much more of existence the best art of today is about compared with earlier art.? For just one thing, today?s art has a vastly larger tradition to make allusions to than previous art had.? There have been artists in the past as great as our best, but what are best have produced is significantly better than what they did in part because of the what the artists of the past did.? (Note, this is a subject requiring a book.) --- On Thu, 2/9/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 9, 2012, 7:56 PM My blog entry for yesterday has a few Fairchild journal entries that I argue with in my entry for today at http://poeticks.com.? I think most New-Poetry participants will like them.? One or two may find my comments on them interesting, too. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 10 16:47:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:47:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries In-Reply-To: <1328908399.13246.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1328908399.13246.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <61647E4A2A494E80807FF1EE88A9B24B@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 4:13 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries Bob, I'm sure you haven't proof read these comments. Are you determined to stick by them? Not ?determined? to, Stephen, but fairly confident no one will be able to convince me I?m wrong, except for the ?are? in place of ?our,? which I will now correct. --Bob Compare the clumsy ?novel? in the Bible about David with almost any competent commercial novel of today, for instance. Consider how much more of existence the best art of today is about compared with earlier art. For just one thing, today?s art has a vastly larger tradition to make allusions to than previous art had. There have been artists in the past as great as our best, but what are best have produced is significantly better than what they did in part because of the what the artists of the past did. (Note, this is a subject requiring a book.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Feb 10 17:13:07 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:13:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad Richard sighting Message-ID: <8CEB6584D05D6C9-7A4-4E2A@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> In South Windsor CT last night, I had to chance to attend a Tad Richards reading. Tad read a diverse and engaging set of poetry...and ended with a few sections from a comic novel in verse (Situations), the kind of thing you don't hear much at readings. One of Tad's fellow Iowa Workshop pals attended too, Bob (I forgot his last name). And during the open mike Bob read a poem by another of their classmates, Annette Basalyga, who recently published her first book called _Lifer_. http://www.amazon.com/Lifer-Annette-Basalyga/dp/098262090X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1 And we learned a little about Opus40... http://www.opus40.org/ which I've been meaning to do a day trip to see. So the evening had great spirit to it. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Feb 10 18:37:07 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:37:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries In-Reply-To: <61647E4A2A494E80807FF1EE88A9B24B@BobHP> References: <1328908399.13246.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <61647E4A2A494E80807FF1EE88A9B24B@BobHP> Message-ID: <8CEB66409078A5C-1CD8-26E0@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> I missed something. Where are the BH Fairchild entries published, in what book? -----Original Message----- From: bob grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 4:13 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries Bob, I'm sure you haven't proof read these comments. Are you determined to stick by them? Not ?determined? to, Stephen, but fairly confident no one will be able to convince me I?m wrong, except for the ?are? in place of ?our,? which I will now correct. --Bob Compare the clumsy ?novel? in the Bible about David with almost any competent commercial novel of today, for instance. Consider how much more of existence the best art of today is about compared with earlier art. For just one thing, today?s art has a vastly larger tradition to make allusions to than previous art had. There have been artists in the past as great as our best, but what are best have produced is significantly better than what they did in part because of the what the artists of the past did. (Note, this is a subject requiring a book.) _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 10 19:11:26 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:11:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries In-Reply-To: <8CEB66409078A5C-1CD8-26E0@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> References: <1328908399.13246.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><61647E4A2A494E80807FF1EE88A9B24B@BobHP> <8CEB66409078A5C-1CD8-26E0@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1010C1FE01834F28A116AF39B1E4CFBF@BobHP> From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 6:37 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] >B. H. Fairchild Journal Entries I missed something. Where are the BH Fairchild entries published, in what book? A magazine called New Letters published quarterly by the University of Missouri-Kansas City?Vol, 78 No, 1. It has some Goldbarth poems, too?that I was impressed with in spite of David?s view of them. It has a website: http://newletters.org that I haven?t been to. The entries are mostly interesting. I think I have the same point of view about them as I have about Wilshberian poetry: good stuff, but why the complete absence of other good stuff from a different slant. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 11 02:48:17 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:48:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad Richard sighting In-Reply-To: <8CEB6584D05D6C9-7A4-4E2A@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB6584D05D6C9-7A4-4E2A@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Fantastic! What a great meeting. Yes, Opus must be something... Have a nice weekend, Anny On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:13 PM, wrote: > In South Windsor CT last night, I had to chance to attend a Tad Richards > reading. Tad read a diverse and engaging set of poetry...and ended with a > few sections from a comic novel in verse (Situations), the kind of thing > you don't hear much at readings. > > One of Tad's fellow Iowa Workshop pals attended too, Bob (I forgot his > last name). And during the open mike Bob read a poem by another of their > classmates, Annette Basalyga, who recently published her first book called > _Lifer_. > > http://www.amazon.com/Lifer-Annette-Basalyga/dp/098262090X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1 > > And we learned a little about Opus40... > http://www.opus40.org/ > which I've been meaning to do a day trip to see. > > So the evening had great spirit to it. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 11 10:36:48 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:36:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges Message-ID: <1328974608.83614.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Concerning Chris Hedges: October2011.org News: Update on NOW DC and the West Coast Tour Wednesday, Feb. 15: Panel on Diversity of Tactics with Chris Hedges, listen live at RevolutionTruth.org at 3 pm pacific/6 pm eastern, followed by Which Way Forward from 7 to 9 pm by the San Francisco 99% Coalition. ********************************************************************************************** Two of the organizers of the occupation at Freedom Plaza, Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers, will begin a west coast speaking tour on Sunday, Feb. 12 to visit occupations on their way to the Occupy Olympia Solidarity Social Forum. They hope to see you along the way if you are in the area. Here is an outline of their speaking schedule: Sunday, Feb. 12: Occupy Phoenix in Cesar Chavez Plaza from 6 to 7:30 pm. Monday, Feb. 13: Occupy Tucson 7 to 9 pm: Single Payer and the 99% Deficit Proposal. Tuesday, Feb. 14: Single Payer Now Meeting in San Francisco, CA. Thursday, Feb 16: Occupy Ashland Forum on Occupy from 6:30 to 8 pm at SOU. Friday, Feb. 17: City Library in Corvallis, OR from noon to 2 pm to speak about single payer and the economy, followed by a teach-in on Occupy Strategy and Tactics at 6 pm at Occupy Portland. Saturday and Sunday, Feb. 18 & 19: Occupy Olympia Solidarity Social Forum --- On Sat, 2/4/12, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: [New-Poetry] Chris Hedges To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Saturday, February 4, 2012, 2:40 PM https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11 A nation that destroys its systems of education, degrades its public information, guts its public libraries and turns its airwaves into vehicles for cheap, mindless amusement becomes deaf, dumb and blind. It prizes test scores above critical thinking and literacy. It celebrates rote vocational training and the singular, amoral skill of making money. It churns out stunted human products, lacking the capacity and vocabulary to challenge the assumptions and structures of the corporate state. It funnels them into a caste system of drones and systems managers. It transforms a democratic state into a feudal system of corporate masters and serfs. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 11 15:26:52 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:26:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] World's Oldest Work Of Art Found In Spain Message-ID: <8CEB7129FFE56CE-11AC-9018@Webmail-m116.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/worlds-oldest-work-of-art_n_1263822.html You thought art history was limited to human beings? Well, think again. A recently discovered painting in Spanish caves in Costa Del Sol was found by scientists to be approximately 42,000 years old, making it the oldest artwork ever. What is more, this artwork is also the first known painting by Neanderthals, not homo sapiens. Professor Jose Luis Sanchidrian called it an "academic bombshell" and its effects will reverberate through the field of Art History for years to come. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Sat Feb 11 15:50:03 2012 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22e=B7ratio=22?=) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:50:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_15_=B7_2012?= Message-ID: <86f8aae8de9094c7ac6e7dda0317a535.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> e? a noun sing e?ratio 15 ? 2012 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/ with poetry by Morgan Harlow, Candy Shue, Jan Lauwereyns, Doris Neidl, Tim Trace Peterson, Jen Besemer, Sheila Squillante, Lisa McCool-Grime, Natalie Watson, Julie Wood, Kristina Marie Darling, Felicia Shenker, Scott Bentley, J. Crouse, Bob Heman, James Davies, Dylan Harris, Michael Sikkema, Kent Leatham, Parker Tettleton, Bobbi Lurie, Lauren Marie Cappello, Erin Heath, Wynne Huddleston, Jane Olivier, Elise, Nathan Thompson, Tim Wright, Tim VanDyke, Iain Britton, Ian Hatcher, C. Brannon Watts, Seth Tyler Copeland, Rich Murphy, J. D. Nelson, Howie Good, Monty Reid, Dave Shortt, Billy Cancel, John Clinton, Thomas Fink, Larry Ziman, Valery Oisteanu, Michael Crane, Jon Cone, Mark Cunningham, Rick Marlatt, Nikolai Duffy, Alessandro Cusimano, Jacob Russell, Corey Wakeling, Stephen Nelson, Steve Gilmartin, James Valvis, Greg Cohen, Derek Henderson, Travis Cebula, Sean Howard and M?rton Kopp?ny and featuring The Mallarm? Project, an examination of a yearlong series of art and writing in Seattle by Joseph F. Keppler and The Susan Bee Interview E?ratio is edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino with contributing editors Joseph F. Keppler and Lauren Marie Cappello http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com E?ratio is reading for issue 16, the fall 2012 issue. e? From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 11 16:23:24 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:23:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: the poetry of Gil Scott-Heron Message-ID: <8CEB71A85879E76-64C-8956@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Good stuff... http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/poetica/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/3740338 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 11 17:48:34 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:48:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Demand Poetry Message-ID: <8CEB7266B9C891D-1A7C-155F@webmail-m128.sysops.aol.com> STRATFORD -- At a harvest festival three years ago on Paradise Green, Elizabeth Howard settled under a tree with the beat-up manual typewriter she bought for $25 on eBay. Beside her, a hand-written sign read: "Demand Poetry." The idea was simple: Give Howard a topic, and she'll tap out an original, free-verse poem about it. Just for you. The venture got off to a shaky start. Kids gawked at the funny, foreign typewriter. The machine jammed and dropped letters. Just a few friends obliged Howard with a poem request. At the 2010 festival, Howard returned -- this time with a $200 typewriter in tow. "I would like you to write a poem about my wife," asked a man she didn't know. Read more: http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Demand-Poetry-a-business-that-touches-the-heart-3260937.php#ixzz1m7GKjY9N -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 11 18:40:55 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:40:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: PoemoftheWeek.org- Lisa Lewis In-Reply-To: <20120211150659.20707@web008.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20120211150659.20707@web008.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <8CEB72DBBC315DB-91C-9B1F@webmail-m100.sysops.aol.com> From: PoemoftheWeek at poemoftheweek.org To: andrewmcfadyenketchum Sent: Sat, Feb 11, 2012 3:07 pm Subject: PoemoftheWeek.org- Lisa Lewis Dear PoemoftheWeek Subscriber, This week PoemoftheWeek.org features two poems by Lisa Lewis. Also included is an audio-recording of Lewis reading one of the featured poems and an author bio. Enjoy! My best, Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, Founder & Editor Contact us at AndrewMcFadyenKetchum at PoemoftheWeek.org Donate to PoemoftheWeek.org at http://poemoftheweek.org/id294.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 08:05:22 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:05:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: the poetry of Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <8CEB71A85879E76-64C-8956@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB71A85879E76-64C-8956@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Very interesting. Gil Scott-Heron echoes the Doors in many a passage. Group I idolized until I found some footage on YouTube that disturbed me, not because I am getting older. One thing. Gil should have read Ignazio Silone to discover that until the end of the second WW in Italy, exception made for the North-East part under the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the vast majority did not know how to read nor write. That the Pilgrim Fathers had to escape Europe because they were persecuted. Thus not 'The White Man' but some white men *arrived* in Africa. He should also know better, from the civil wars in Africa, thus 'some black men.' I recently watched 'Johnny Mad Dog,' defined 'harrowing and difficult to forget': http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/johnny-mad-dog/ thus, 'some black teenagers.' I understand that a certain slang made his meager business, but I am sorry, I get hitchy when there are gratuitous generalizations. This in the memory of my ancestors who fought hard to survive against some empty headed violent white, black and any other colored men. Best, Anny On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:23 PM, wrote: > Good stuff... > > http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/poetica/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/3740338 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 12 15:21:41 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:21:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] twentieth century poets stamps Message-ID: <8CEB7DB10A844CF-80C-113F4@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com> Jeff, sorry if I'm repeating myself, but USPS is issuing a stamp block in April and Stevens is featured... http://www.beyondtheperf.com/stamp-releases/twentieth-century-poets Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 12 15:26:34 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:26:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] twentieth century poets stamps In-Reply-To: <8CEB7DB10A844CF-80C-113F4@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB7DB10A844CF-80C-113F4@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB7DBBF827D07-80C-114AC@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com> Sorry for my misdirected email...atleast it was related to poetry. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Feb 12, 2012 3:21 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] twentieth century poets stamps Jeff, sorry if I'm repeating myself, but USPS is issuing a stamp block in April and Stevens is featured... http://www.beyondtheperf.com/stamp-releases/twentieth-century-poets -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 15:29:11 2012 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:29:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands Message-ID: >From *Poets & Writers:* When poet and critic Alfred Corn comes upon an ampersand while reading a contemporary poem, it creates a slight, and slightly irritating, break in his concentration. ?It sparks a cognitive blip, which I immediately get past, but I?d actually rather not have to go through the process, even though it?s very short,? Corn says. ?It doesn?t save an enormous amount of time for the writer, so its use must be based on the feeling that it adds a poetic quality to the visual aspect of a poem?and only to the visual aspect since, clearly, it can?t be heard when the poem is read aloud. That much said, if I was moved by other aspects of a given poem, the ampersand wouldn?t be an insurmountable obstacle to liking it.? http://www.pw.org/content/poets_ampersands Thoughts? --Jeff Newberry -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Feb 12 17:03:38 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:03:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:29 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands >From Poets & Writers: When poet and critic Alfred Corn comes upon an ampersand while reading a contemporary poem, it creates a slight, and slightly irritating, break in his concentration. ?It sparks a cognitive blip, which I immediately get past, but I?d actually rather not have to go through the process, even though it?s very short,? Corn says. ?It doesn?t save an enormous amount of time for the writer, so its use must be based on the feeling that it adds a poetic quality to the visual aspect of a poem?and only to the visual aspect since, clearly, it can?t be heard when the poem is read aloud. That much said, if I was moved by other aspects of a given poem, the ampersand wouldn?t be an insurmountable obstacle to liking it.? http://www.pw.org/content/poets_ampersands Thoughts? --Jeff Newberry Visual poets love ampersands. We?ve discussed the poem Elizabeth Bishop has about ?and.? Well, to me an ampersand is a concentrated ?and.? One of my poems is ?poetry = &3,? the 3 being an exponent I don?t know how to show here. As fro critic Corn?s break in concentration, to me that?s a prime value of an ampersand?a typographical way of telling the truth slant. ?And,? of course, & is just a different spelling of ?and,? with different connotative values a good poet will be sensitive to. It can put a poem in a different register that can be appropriate. &cetera. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Feb 12 17:30:35 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:30:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> References: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> Message-ID: <4F383D8B.1050506@louisiana.edu> It seems to me that "a slight, and slightly irritating, break in . . . concentration" is precisely the desired effect--like (in other times) a slant rhyme, or a slight disruption of meter. What's telling here for me is Corn's emphasis on the poem's visual aspect as distinct from "when the poem is read aloud," as if these were the only moments of reception that matter--leaving out entirely precisely the moment he's experiencing as a disruption, the individual reader reading the poem to him/herself, developing (or coming preset with) expectations that may be satisfied or disrupted by the poem's language (and shape, and music, and thought). I'd say it's also worth noting that "a cognitive blip" or disruption is posed here as exclusively a negative feature of reception--that strikes me as just bizarre, in any art form. We don't always seek immediate gratification, harmony, and cognitive smooth sailing, do we? Jerry On 2/12/2012 4:03 PM, bob grumman wrote: > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:29 PM > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands > From /Poets & Writers:/ > > When poet and critic Alfred Corn comes upon an ampersand while reading > a contemporary poem, it creates a slight, and slightly irritating, > break in his concentration. "It sparks a cognitive blip, which I > immediately get past, but I'd actually rather not have to go through > the process, even though it's very short," Corn says. "It doesn't save > an enormous amount of time for the writer, so its use must be based on > the feeling that it adds a poetic quality to the visual aspect of a > poem---and only to the visual aspect since, clearly, it can't be heard > when the poem is read aloud. That much said, if I was moved by other > aspects of a given poem, the ampersand wouldn't be an insurmountable > obstacle to liking it." > > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_ampersands > > > Thoughts? > > > > --Jeff Newberry > Visual poets love ampersands. We've discussed the poem Elizabeth > Bishop has about "and." Well, to me an ampersand is a concentrated > "and." One of my poems is "poetry = &3," the 3 being an exponent I > don't know how to show here. As fro critic Corn's break in > concentration, to me that's a prime value of an ampersand---a > typographical way of telling the truth slant. "And," of course, & is > just a different spelling of "and," with different connotative values > a good poet will be sensitive to. It can put a poem in a different > register that can be appropriate. &cetera. > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Feb 12 18:18:23 2012 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:18:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands Message-ID: <311a5.962f89b.3c69a2bf@cs.com> The & strikes me as a mild irritation, like the lower-case "i," vertical centering, and that Olsonesque contraction of "ed" into "t": "fisht" or "stoppt." I cling to the old-fashioned habit of capitalizing the first letter of lines (in almost all cases except my two vertically-centered poems) because I like to think of my lines as lines; a lot of folks find first-letter capitals a mild irritation, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 18:56:35 2012 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:56:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> References: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> Message-ID: I feel just a bit woozy. It's as though down has become up and up has become down. What's going on? I agree with Bob. What's happened? --Jeff Newberry. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:03 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:29 PM > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands > > From *Poets & Writers:* > > When poet and critic Alfred Corn comes upon an ampersand while reading a > contemporary poem, it creates a slight, and slightly irritating, break in > his concentration. ?It sparks a cognitive blip, which I immediately get > past, but I?d actually rather not have to go through the process, even > though it?s very short,? Corn says. ?It doesn?t save an enormous amount of > time for the writer, so its use must be based on the feeling that it adds a > poetic quality to the visual aspect of a poem?and only to the visual aspect > since, clearly, it can?t be heard when the poem is read aloud. That much > said, if I was moved by other aspects of a given poem, the ampersand > wouldn?t be an insurmountable obstacle to liking it.? > > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_ampersands > > > Thoughts? > > > > --Jeff Newberry > > Visual poets love ampersands. We?ve discussed the poem Elizabeth Bishop > has about ?and.? Well, to me an ampersand is a concentrated ?and.? One of > my poems is ?poetry = &3,? the 3 being an exponent I don?t know how to show > here. As fro critic Corn?s break in concentration, to me that?s a prime > value of an ampersand?a typographical way of telling the truth slant. > ?And,? of course, & is just a different spelling of ?and,? with different > connotative values a good poet will be sensitive to. It can put a poem in > a different register that can be appropriate. &cetera. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Poetry is an act of non-mathematical creation that adheres to metrics embodied in language?s natural music. It isn?t a gush, but a felt and lived syncopation. ?Yusef Komunyakaa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 19:50:49 2012 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:50:49 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: References: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> Message-ID: and what are we to do with the thorn? how can one say, "we don't need no ligatures (in a sans serif world) On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I feel just a bit woozy. It's as though down has become up and up has > become down. What's going on? > > I agree with Bob. What's happened? > > --Jeff Newberry. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Feb 12 20:10:21 2012 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:10:21 -0300 (GMT-03:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] World's Oldest Work Of Art Found In Spain Message-ID: <13637500.1329095421544.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Feb 12 20:33:10 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:33:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: References: <74E2B4D95E6F4DBD976D66607F5194D3@BobHP> Message-ID: <8256D0F0AF834ABAAB79A113128695D7@BobHP> From: Catherine Daly Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:50 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands and what are we to do with the thorn? how can one say, "we don't need no ligatures (in a sans serif world) On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: I feel just a bit woozy. It's as though down has become up and up has become down. What's going on? I agree with Bob. What's happened? --Jeff Newberry. You do that once a year, Jeff. Don?t worry about it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Feb 13 08:50:38 2012 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:50:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A number of years ago, I wrote a eulogy for an old friend who was a beat poet. Writing it was the first part of the job. The second part, because it was a tribute, was going back and translating it into beat -- putting in all the ampersands and the "yr"s. I guess it would be even harder now if I were trying to write one for a hip-hop poet. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > From *Poets & Writers:* > > When poet and critic Alfred Corn comes upon an ampersand while reading a > contemporary poem, it creates a slight, and slightly irritating, break in > his concentration. ?It sparks a cognitive blip, which I immediately get > past, but I?d actually rather not have to go through the process, even > though it?s very short,? Corn says. ?It doesn?t save an enormous amount of > time for the writer, so its use must be based on the feeling that it adds a > poetic quality to the visual aspect of a poem?and only to the visual aspect > since, clearly, it can?t be heard when the poem is read aloud. That much > said, if I was moved by other aspects of a given poem, the ampersand > wouldn?t be an insurmountable obstacle to liking it.? > > http://www.pw.org/content/poets_ampersands > > > Thoughts? > > > > --Jeff Newberry > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Mon Feb 13 10:42:09 2012 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:42:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World's Oldest Work Of Art Found In Spain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thanks for posting this. it's a huge find, in line with the bosnian pyramids whose study should completely revise anthropological theories about the origins of agriculture and complex societies, in line with the ongoing discovery of skeletal remains that upset the dominant theories of emergence and dispersion re: species of homo. one note on the post, neanderthals are considered sub-species of homo sapiens (homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis). it seems important to note the relation, and also that the record indicates neanderthals had a higher average cranial capacity (indeed the highest of all apes) than homo sapiens sapiens. as "cro-magnon" speaks more to an emerging tool culture (with emphasis on culture) than an anatomical being (it does not indicate a species), the word seems to describe a transitional stage in human evolution that brought forth our slightly shrunken brain. this discovery of art in and from an unexpected place and from the period when neanderthals more or less are wiped from the map is interesting for the speculation it invites --- IF homo sapiens sapiens were pushing west through europe, violently displacing and/or interbreeding with the resident peoples there (neanderthals), then one can't help but wonder what would have motivated this art, this far west, this late in the game for the people producing it. and just to clarify, many anthropologists will note the anatomical differences among neanderthals, h.s.s., and cro-magnon skulls. but just as many will note that all of those differences not only survive but are pretty widespread among people today. in other words, cro-magnons and neanderthals perhaps still walk among us. : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:26:52 -0500 (EST) > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] World's Oldest Work Of Art Found In Spain > Message-ID: <8CEB7129FFE56CE-11AC-9018 at Webmail-m116.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/worlds-oldest-work-of-art_n_1263822.html > > > You thought art history was limited to human beings? Well, think again. > > > A recently discovered painting in Spanish caves in Costa Del Sol was found by scientists to be approximately 42,000 years old, making it the oldest artwork ever. What is more, this artwork is also the first known painting by Neanderthals, not homo sapiens. Professor Jose Luis Sanchidrian called it an "academic bombshell" and its effects will reverberate through the field of Art History for years to come. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 11:31:12 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:31:12 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Share This: [image: Robert Pinsky] *Announcing our Friday Evening Features!* *Friday evening will be a special evening of poetry with Robert Pinsky, Major Jackson, and Maggie Dietz.* *Robert Pinsky?s* first two terms as United States Poet Laureate were marked by such visible dynamism, and such national enthusiasm in response, that the Library of Congress appointed him to an unprecedented third term. As poet laureate, Robert Pinsky founded the Favorite Poem Project, in which thousands of Americans?of varying backgrounds, all ages, and from every state?shared their favorite poems. The anthology *Americans' Favorite Poems*, which includes letters from project participants, is in its 18th printing. The most recent anthology, *An Invitation to Poetry*, comes with a DVD featuring 27 of the FPP video segments, as seen on PBS. In April 2009, W.W. Norton published *Essential Pleasures: A New Anthology of Poems to Read Aloud*. Elegant and tough, vividly imaginative, Pinsky?s poems have earned praise for their wild musical energy and ambitious range. *Selected Poems*, (spring 2011) is his most recent volume of poetry. His *The Figured Wheel: New and Collected Poems **1966-1996* was a Pulitzer Prize nominee and received the Lenore Marshall Award and the Ambassador Book Award of the English Speaking Union. Pinsky has released a new CD this month with award-winning pianist Laurence Hobgood. POEMJAZZ treats a voice speaking poetry as having a role like that of a horn: speech with its own poetic melody and rhythm, in conversation with what the music is doing. To put it simply, POEMJAZZ is a conversation between the sounds of poetry and music. Order your copy of POEMJAZZ. *Major Jackson* makes his first appearance at the poetry festival. Jackson is the author of two collections of poetry: *Hoops* (Norton: 2006) and *Leaving Saturn* (University of Georgia: 2002), winner of the Cave Canem Poetry Prize and finalist for a National Book Critics Circle Award. Hoops was a finalist for an NAACP Image Award in the category of Outstanding Literature - Poetry. His third volume of poetry *Holding Company * was recently released from W.W. Norton. He is a recipient of a Whiting Writers' Award and has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the Arts and the Witter Bynner Foundation in conjunction with the Library of Congress. Jackson has strong Massachusetts connections. He served as a creative arts fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University and as the Jack Kerouac Writer-in-Residence at University of Massachusetts-Lowell. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold Professor at University of Vermont and a core faculty member of the Bennington Writing Seminars. He serves as the Poetry Editor of the *Harvard Review*. *Maggie Dietz* returns to the festival in 2012. Her first book of poems *Perennial Fall *(University of Chicago Press) won the 2007 Jane Kenyon Award for Outstanding Book of Poetry. For many years she directed the Favorite Poem Project, Robert Pinsky?s special undertaking during his tenure as U.S. Poet Laureate, and is coeditor of three anthologies related to the, most recently *An Invitation to Poetry*. Her awards include the Grolier Poetry Prize, the George Bennett Fellowship at Phillips Exeter Academy, as well as fellowships from the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown, and the New Hampshire State Council on the Arts. Her work has appeared widely in journals such as *Poetry*, *Ploughshares, Agni, Harvard Review *and *Salmagundi. *She teaches at the University of Massachusetts Lowell and is assistant poetry editor for the online magazine *Slate*. Dietz lives in New Hampshire with her husband, the poet Todd Hearon, and their four-year-old twins. *The Festival Program Committee is working hard to finalize the last of the program elements and complete the schedule for the whole Festival. We had a record submission of 124 proposals for programing elements. The Committee has read each and every one of them.. The result will be an amazing program over Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 20?22. Stay tuned for new announcements very soon.* *Schools and Teachers: don't forget to register for the Student Day of Poetry, March 30, at MIT. * This day of poetry will feature small workshops for students that will be appropriate for middle school and high school students, , students new to poetry, and student poetry club members. We will have spoken word workshops and sonnet workshops. The workshops will be led by poets from across the Commonwealth. Twenty-seven schools signed up and have room for 10 more. * * *Register your class or school today. * *Small Press & Literary Magazine Fair* * * Already, we have 24 participants registered for the fourth book fair at the poetry festival. We have moved the location to one that will give each table more room and will have restaurants and caf?s adjacent to the displays. We have designed the space for 40 participants. So we are looking for 16 more magazines and small presses. If you have not registered yet you can do so now by clicking here. The charge is a massive $25. We expect more than 1,000 people to peruse the tables and buy books and magazines -- so sign up now. Look for more news from us very shortly. And keep checking our always improving website: www.masspoetry.org, which has blog posts, resources, festival updates, student and youth program information, the forthcoming Common Threads program. Also, watch the videos we?ve included in the sidebar. All the best, January G. O?Neil Executive Director Mass Poetry Festival Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://masspoetry.org/ Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 This email was sent to *anny.ballardini at gmail.com*. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. *manage*your preferences | *opt out*using *TrueRemove*?. Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. [image: powered by emma] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 13 11:50:34 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:50:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically obnoxious about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that impulse. From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:31 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Share This: Announcing our Friday Evening Features! Friday evening will be a special evening of poetry with Robert Pinsky, Major Jackson, and Maggie Dietz. Robert Pinsky?s first two terms as United States Poet Laureate were marked by such visible dynamism, and such national enthusiasm in response, that the Library of Congress appointed him to an unprecedented third term. As poet laureate, Robert Pinsky founded the Favorite Poem Project, in which thousands of Americans?of varying backgrounds, all ages, and from every state?shared their favorite poems. The anthology Americans' Favorite Poems, which includes letters from project participants, is in its 18th printing. The most recent anthology, An Invitation to Poetry, comes with a DVD featuring 27 of the FPP video segments, as seen on PBS. In April 2009, W.W. Norton published Essential Pleasures: A New Anthology of Poems to Read Aloud. Elegant and tough, vividly imaginative, Pinsky?s poems have earned praise for their wild musical energy and ambitious range. Selected Poems, (spring 2011) is his most recent volume of poetry. His The Figured Wheel: New and Collected Poems 1966-1996 was a Pulitzer Prize nominee and received the Lenore Marshall Award and the Ambassador Book Award of the English Speaking Union. Pinsky has released a new CD this month with award-winning pianist Laurence Hobgood. POEMJAZZ treats a voice speaking poetry as having a role like that of a horn: speech with its own poetic melody and rhythm, in conversation with what the music is doing. To put it simply, POEMJAZZ is a conversation between the sounds of poetry and music. Order your copy of POEMJAZZ. Major Jackson makes his first appearance at the poetry festival. Jackson is the author of two collections of poetry: Hoops (Norton: 2006) and Leaving Saturn (University of Georgia: 2002), winner of the Cave Canem Poetry Prize and finalist for a National Book Critics Circle Award. Hoops was a finalist for an NAACP Image Award in the category of Outstanding Literature - Poetry. His third volume of poetry Holding Company was recently released from W.W. Norton. He is a recipient of a Whiting Writers' Award and has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the Arts and the Witter Bynner Foundation in conjunction with the Library of Congress. Jackson has strong Massachusetts connections. He served as a creative arts fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University and as the Jack Kerouac Writer-in-Residence at University of Massachusetts-Lowell. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold Professor at University of Vermont and a core faculty member of the Bennington Writing Seminars. He serves as the Poetry Editor of the Harvard Review. Maggie Dietz returns to the festival in 2012. Her first book of poems Perennial Fall (University of Chicago Press) won the 2007 Jane Kenyon Award for Outstanding Book of Poetry. For many years she directed the Favorite Poem Project, Robert Pinsky?s special undertaking during his tenure as U.S. Poet Laureate, and is coeditor of three anthologies related to the, most recently An Invitation to Poetry. Her awards include the Grolier Poetry Prize, the George Bennett Fellowship at Phillips Exeter Academy, as well as fellowships from the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown, and the New Hampshire State Council on the Arts. Her work has appeared widely in journals such as Poetry, Ploughshares, Agni, Harvard Review and Salmagundi. She teaches at the University of Massachusetts Lowell and is assistant poetry editor for the online magazine Slate. Dietz lives in New Hampshire with her husband, the poet Todd Hearon, and their four-year-old twins. The Festival Program Committee is working hard to finalize the last of the program elements and complete the schedule for the whole Festival. We had a record submission of 124 proposals for programing elements. The Committee has read each and every one of them.. The result will be an amazing program over Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 20?22. Stay tuned for new announcements very soon. Schools and Teachers: don't forget to register for the Student Day of Poetry, March 30, at MIT. This day of poetry will feature small workshops for students that will be appropriate for middle school and high school students, , students new to poetry, and student poetry club members. We will have spoken word workshops and sonnet workshops. The workshops will be led by poets from across the Commonwealth. Twenty-seven schools signed up and have room for 10 more. Register your class or school today. Small Press & Literary Magazine Fair Already, we have 24 participants registered for the fourth book fair at the poetry festival. We have moved the location to one that will give each table more room and will have restaurants and caf?s adjacent to the displays. We have designed the space for 40 participants. So we are looking for 16 more magazines and small presses. If you have not registered yet you can do so now by clicking here. The charge is a massive $25. We expect more than 1,000 people to peruse the tables and buy books and magazines -- so sign up now. Look for more news from us very shortly. And keep checking our always improving website: www.masspoetry.org, which has blog posts, resources, festival updates, student and youth program information, the forthcoming Common Threads program. Also, watch the videos we?ve included in the sidebar. All the best, January G. O?Neil Executive Director Mass Poetry Festival Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://masspoetry.org/ Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 This email was sent to anny.ballardini at gmail.com. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. manage your preferences | opt out using TrueRemove?. Got this as a forward? Sign up to receive our future emails. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 12:14:13 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:14:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad Richard sighting In-Reply-To: <8CEB6584D05D6C9-7A4-4E2A@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB6584D05D6C9-7A4-4E2A@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Bob Berner. And thanks for the kind words. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:13 PM, wrote: > In South Windsor CT last night, I had to chance to attend a Tad Richards > reading. Tad read a diverse and engaging set of poetry...and ended with a > few sections from a comic novel in verse (Situations), the kind of thing > you don't hear much at readings. > > One of Tad's fellow Iowa Workshop pals attended too, Bob (I forgot his > last name). And during the open mike Bob read a poem by another of their > classmates, Annette Basalyga, who recently published her first book called > _Lifer_. > > http://www.amazon.com/Lifer-Annette-Basalyga/dp/098262090X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1 > > And we learned a little about Opus40... > http://www.opus40.org/ > which I've been meaning to do a day trip to see. > > So the evening had great spirit to it. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 14:19:45 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:19:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: You are becoming half-a-man! Congratulations, indeed. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically > obnoxious about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that > impulse. > > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 11:31 AM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival > > > > If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. > > > Share This: > > > [image: Robert Pinsky] > *Announcing our Friday Evening Features!* > > *Friday evening will be a special evening of poetry with Robert Pinsky, > Major Jackson, and Maggie Dietz.* > > *Robert Pinsky?s* first two terms as United States Poet Laureate were > marked by such visible dynamism, and such national enthusiasm in response, > that the Library of Congress appointed him to an unprecedented third term. > As poet laureate, Robert Pinsky founded the Favorite Poem Project, > in which thousands of Americans?of varying backgrounds, all ages, and from > every state?shared their favorite poems. The anthology *Americans' > Favorite Poems*, which includes letters from project participants, is in > its 18th printing. The most recent anthology, *An Invitation to Poetry*, > comes with a DVD featuring 27 of the FPP video segments, as seen on PBS. In > April 2009, W.W. Norton published *Essential Pleasures: A New Anthology > of Poems to Read Aloud*. Elegant and tough, vividly imaginative, Pinsky?s > poems have earned praise for their wild musical energy and ambitious range. > *Selected Poems*, (spring 2011) is his most recent volume of poetry. His *The > Figured Wheel: New and Collected Poems **1966-1996* was a Pulitzer Prize > nominee and received the Lenore Marshall Award and the Ambassador Book > Award of the English Speaking Union. > > Pinsky has released a new CD this month with award-winning pianist > Laurence Hobgood. POEMJAZZ treats a voice speaking poetry as having a role > like that of a horn: speech with its own poetic melody and rhythm, in > conversation with what the music is doing. To put it simply, POEMJAZZ is a > conversation between the sounds of poetry and music. > Order your copy of POEMJAZZ. > > *Major Jackson* makes his first appearance at the poetry festival. > Jackson is the author of two collections of poetry: *Hoops* (Norton: > 2006) and *Leaving Saturn* (University of Georgia: 2002), winner of the > Cave Canem Poetry Prize and finalist for a National Book Critics Circle > Award. Hoops was a finalist for an NAACP Image Award in the category of > Outstanding Literature - Poetry. His third volume of poetry *Holding > Company* was recently released from W.W. Norton. He is a recipient of a > Whiting Writers' Award and has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the > Arts and the Witter Bynner Foundation in conjunction with the Library of > Congress. > > Jackson has strong Massachusetts connections. He served as a creative arts > fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University > and as the Jack Kerouac Writer-in-Residence at University of > Massachusetts-Lowell. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold Professor at > University of Vermont and a core faculty member of the Bennington Writing > Seminars. He serves as the Poetry Editor of the *Harvard Review*. > *Maggie Dietz* returns to the festival in 2012. Her first book of > poems *Perennial Fall *(University of Chicago Press) won the 2007 Jane > Kenyon Award for Outstanding Book of Poetry. For many years she directed > the Favorite Poem Project, Robert Pinsky?s special undertaking during his > tenure as U.S. Poet Laureate, and is coeditor of three anthologies related > to the, most recently *An Invitation to Poetry*. Her awards include the > Grolier Poetry Prize, the George Bennett Fellowship at Phillips Exeter > Academy, as well as fellowships from the Fine Arts Work Center in > Provincetown, and the New Hampshire State Council on the Arts. Her work has > appeared widely in journals such as *Poetry*, *Ploughshares, Agni, > Harvard Review *and *Salmagundi. *She teaches at the University of > Massachusetts Lowell and is assistant poetry editor for the online magazine > *Slate*. Dietz lives in New Hampshire with her husband, the poet Todd > Hearon, and their four-year-old twins. > > *The Festival Program Committee is working hard to finalize the last of > the program elements and complete the schedule for the whole Festival. We > had a record submission of 124 proposals for programing elements. The > Committee has read each and every one of them.. The result will be an > amazing program over Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 20?22. Stay tuned > for new announcements very soon.* > > *Schools and Teachers: don't forget to register for the Student Day of > Poetry, March 30, at MIT. * > This day of poetry will feature small workshops for students that will > be appropriate for middle school and high school students, , students new > to poetry, and student poetry club members. We will have spoken word > workshops and sonnet workshops. The workshops will be led by poets from > across the Commonwealth. Twenty-seven schools signed up and have room for > 10 more. * * > *Register your class or school today. * > > > *Small Press & Literary Magazine Fair* > * > * > Already, we have 24 participants registered for the fourth book fair at > the poetry festival. We have moved the location to one that will give each > table more room and will have restaurants and caf?s adjacent to the > displays. We have designed the space for 40 participants. So we are looking > for 16 more magazines and small presses. If you have not registered yet > you can do so now by clicking here. > The > charge is a massive $25. We expect more than 1,000 people to peruse the > tables and buy books and magazines -- so sign up now. > > Look for more news from us very shortly. And keep checking our always > improving website: www.masspoetry.org, > which > has blog posts, resources, festival updates, student and youth program > information, the forthcoming Common Threads program. Also, watch the videos > we?ve included in the sidebar. > > All the best, > > January G. O?Neil > Executive Director > Mass Poetry Festival > Massachusetts Poetry Festival > http://masspoetry.org/ > Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events > 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 > This email was sent to *anny.ballardini at gmail.com*. To ensure that you > continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe > list. > > *manage*your preferences | > *opt out*using > *TrueRemove*?. > > Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. > > [image: powered by emma] > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Feb 13 14:37:12 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:37:12 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:50 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically obnoxious > about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist? that impulse. A gold star for Bob! I don't follow Pinsky's work or travels, but I do know his was one of the first poetry readings I ever saw and he was captivating and generous in talking with me after the fact... I didn't know then how rare both of those things are of poets and their readings. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 13 14:44:18 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:44:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: <666EDD9FDD3E41D190B5CBFCCE28472C@BobHP> Right?down from a full man! From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 2:19 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival You are becoming half-a-man! Congratulations, indeed. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically obnoxious about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that impulse. From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:31 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Share This: Announcing our Friday Evening Features! Friday evening will be a special evening of poetry with Robert Pinsky, Major Jackson, and Maggie Dietz. Robert Pinsky?s first two terms as United States Poet Laureate were marked by such visible dynamism, and such national enthusiasm in response, that the Library of Congress appointed him to an unprecedented third term. As poet laureate, Robert Pinsky founded the Favorite Poem Project, in which thousands of Americans?of varying backgrounds, all ages, and from every state?shared their favorite poems. The anthology Americans' Favorite Poems, which includes letters from project participants, is in its 18th printing. The most recent anthology, An Invitation to Poetry, comes with a DVD featuring 27 of the FPP video segments, as seen on PBS. In April 2009, W.W. Norton published Essential Pleasures: A New Anthology of Poems to Read Aloud. Elegant and tough, vividly imaginative, Pinsky?s poems have earned praise for their wild musical energy and ambitious range. Selected Poems, (spring 2011) is his most recent volume of poetry. His The Figured Wheel: New and Collected Poems 1966-1996 was a Pulitzer Prize nominee and received the Lenore Marshall Award and the Ambassador Book Award of the English Speaking Union. Pinsky has released a new CD this month with award-winning pianist Laurence Hobgood. POEMJAZZ treats a voice speaking poetry as having a role like that of a horn: speech with its own poetic melody and rhythm, in conversation with what the music is doing. To put it simply, POEMJAZZ is a conversation between the sounds of poetry and music. Order your copy of POEMJAZZ. Major Jackson makes his first appearance at the poetry festival. Jackson is the author of two collections of poetry: Hoops (Norton: 2006) and Leaving Saturn (University of Georgia: 2002), winner of the Cave Canem Poetry Prize and finalist for a National Book Critics Circle Award. Hoops was a finalist for an NAACP Image Award in the category of Outstanding Literature - Poetry. His third volume of poetry Holding Company was recently released from W.W. Norton. He is a recipient of a Whiting Writers' Award and has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the Arts and the Witter Bynner Foundation in conjunction with the Library of Congress. Jackson has strong Massachusetts connections. He served as a creative arts fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University and as the Jack Kerouac Writer-in-Residence at University of Massachusetts-Lowell. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold Professor at University of Vermont and a core faculty member of the Bennington Writing Seminars. He serves as the Poetry Editor of the Harvard Review. Maggie Dietz returns to the festival in 2012. Her first book of poems Perennial Fall (University of Chicago Press) won the 2007 Jane Kenyon Award for Outstanding Book of Poetry. For many years she directed the Favorite Poem Project, Robert Pinsky?s special undertaking during his tenure as U.S. Poet Laureate, and is coeditor of three anthologies related to the, most recently An Invitation to Poetry. Her awards include the Grolier Poetry Prize, the George Bennett Fellowship at Phillips Exeter Academy, as well as fellowships from the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown, and the New Hampshire State Council on the Arts. Her work has appeared widely in journals such as Poetry, Ploughshares, Agni, Harvard Review and Salmagundi. She teaches at the University of Massachusetts Lowell and is assistant poetry editor for the online magazine Slate. Dietz lives in New Hampshire with her husband, the poet Todd Hearon, and their four-year-old twins. The Festival Program Committee is working hard to finalize the last of the program elements and complete the schedule for the whole Festival. We had a record submission of 124 proposals for programing elements. The Committee has read each and every one of them.. The result will be an amazing program over Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 20?22. Stay tuned for new announcements very soon. Schools and Teachers: don't forget to register for the Student Day of Poetry, March 30, at MIT. This day of poetry will feature small workshops for students that will be appropriate for middle school and high school students, , students new to poetry, and student poetry club members. We will have spoken word workshops and sonnet workshops. The workshops will be led by poets from across the Commonwealth. Twenty-seven schools signed up and have room for 10 more. Register your class or school today. Small Press & Literary Magazine Fair Already, we have 24 participants registered for the fourth book fair at the poetry festival. We have moved the location to one that will give each table more room and will have restaurants and caf?s adjacent to the displays. We have designed the space for 40 participants. So we are looking for 16 more magazines and small presses. If you have not registered yet you can do so now by clicking here. The charge is a massive $25. We expect more than 1,000 people to peruse the tables and buy books and magazines -- so sign up now. Look for more news from us very shortly. And keep checking our always improving website: www.masspoetry.org, which has blog posts, resources, festival updates, student and youth program information, the forthcoming Common Threads program. Also, watch the videos we?ve included in the sidebar. All the best, January G. O?Neil Executive Director Mass Poetry Festival Massachusetts Poetry Festival http://masspoetry.org/ Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 This email was sent to anny.ballardini at gmail.com. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. manage your preferences | opt out using TrueRemove?. Got this as a forward? Sign up to receive our future emails. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 13 14:45:52 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:45:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: <5A2FBD1D07C94C979E556C36C749667E@BobHP> > I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically obnoxious > about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that impulse. A gold star for Bob! No, no, dear fellow?I must insist on being given no more than half a gold star. Robert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Feb 13 14:46:16 2012 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:46:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets & Ampersands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329162376.83879.YahooMailClassic@web45614.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The feeling is mutual. Whenever I see Alfred Corn mentioned or printed, it creates slightly irritating break in my concentration. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From halvard at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 15:15:01 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:15:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: Several steps up for B-bob. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > You are becoming half-a-man! Congratulations, indeed. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:50 PM, bob grumman wrote: > >> I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically >> obnoxious about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that >> impulse. >> >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 11:31 AM >> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Fwd: Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival >> >> >> >> If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. >> >> >> Share This: >> >> >> >> [image: Robert Pinsky] >> *Announcing our Friday Evening Features!* >> >> *Friday evening will be a special evening of poetry with Robert Pinsky, >> Major Jackson, and Maggie Dietz.* >> >> *Robert Pinsky?s* first two terms as United States Poet Laureate were >> marked by such visible dynamism, and such national enthusiasm in response, >> that the Library of Congress appointed him to an unprecedented third term. >> As poet laureate, Robert Pinsky founded the Favorite Poem Project, >> in which thousands of Americans?of varying backgrounds, all ages, and from >> every state?shared their favorite poems. The anthology *Americans' >> Favorite Poems*, which includes letters from project participants, is in >> its 18th printing. The most recent anthology, *An Invitation to Poetry*, >> comes with a DVD featuring 27 of the FPP video segments, as seen on PBS. In >> April 2009, W.W. Norton published *Essential Pleasures: A New Anthology >> of Poems to Read Aloud*. Elegant and tough, vividly imaginative, >> Pinsky?s poems have earned praise for their wild musical energy and >> ambitious range. *Selected Poems*, (spring 2011) is his most recent >> volume of poetry. His *The Figured Wheel: New and Collected Poems ** >> 1966-1996* was a Pulitzer Prize nominee and received the Lenore Marshall >> Award and the Ambassador Book Award of the English Speaking Union. >> >> Pinsky has released a new CD this month with award-winning pianist >> Laurence Hobgood. POEMJAZZ treats a voice speaking poetry as having a role >> like that of a horn: speech with its own poetic melody and rhythm, in >> conversation with what the music is doing. To put it simply, POEMJAZZ is a >> conversation between the sounds of poetry and music. >> Order your copy of POEMJAZZ. >> >> *Major Jackson* makes his first appearance at the poetry festival. >> Jackson is the author of two collections of poetry: *Hoops* (Norton: >> 2006) and *Leaving Saturn* (University of Georgia: 2002), winner of the >> Cave Canem Poetry Prize and finalist for a National Book Critics Circle >> Award. Hoops was a finalist for an NAACP Image Award in the category of >> Outstanding Literature - Poetry. His third volume of poetry *Holding >> Company* was recently released from W.W. Norton. He is a recipient of a >> Whiting Writers' Award and has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the >> Arts and the Witter Bynner Foundation in conjunction with the Library of >> Congress. >> >> Jackson has strong Massachusetts connections. He served as a creative >> arts fellow at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard >> University and as the Jack Kerouac Writer-in-Residence at University of >> Massachusetts-Lowell. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold Professor at >> University of Vermont and a core faculty member of the Bennington Writing >> Seminars. He serves as the Poetry Editor of the *Harvard Review*. >> *Maggie Dietz* returns to the festival in 2012. Her first book of >> poems *Perennial Fall *(University of Chicago Press) won the 2007 Jane >> Kenyon Award for Outstanding Book of Poetry. For many years she directed >> the Favorite Poem Project, Robert Pinsky?s special undertaking during his >> tenure as U.S. Poet Laureate, and is coeditor of three anthologies related >> to the, most recently *An Invitation to Poetry*. Her awards include the >> Grolier Poetry Prize, the George Bennett Fellowship at Phillips Exeter >> Academy, as well as fellowships from the Fine Arts Work Center in >> Provincetown, and the New Hampshire State Council on the Arts. Her work has >> appeared widely in journals such as *Poetry*, *Ploughshares, Agni, >> Harvard Review *and *Salmagundi. *She teaches at the University of >> Massachusetts Lowell and is assistant poetry editor for the online magazine >> *Slate*. Dietz lives in New Hampshire with her husband, the poet Todd >> Hearon, and their four-year-old twins. >> >> *The Festival Program Committee is working hard to finalize the last of >> the program elements and complete the schedule for the whole Festival. We >> had a record submission of 124 proposals for programing elements. The >> Committee has read each and every one of them.. The result will be an >> amazing program over Friday, Saturday and Sunday, April 20?22. Stay tuned >> for new announcements very soon.* >> >> *Schools and Teachers: don't forget to register for the Student Day of >> Poetry, March 30, at MIT. * >> This day of poetry will feature small workshops for students that will >> be appropriate for middle school and high school students, , students new >> to poetry, and student poetry club members. We will have spoken word >> workshops and sonnet workshops. The workshops will be led by poets from >> across the Commonwealth. Twenty-seven schools signed up and have room for >> 10 more. * * >> *Register your class or school today. * >> >> >> *Small Press & Literary Magazine Fair* >> * >> * >> Already, we have 24 participants registered for the fourth book fair at >> the poetry festival. We have moved the location to one that will give each >> table more room and will have restaurants and caf?s adjacent to the >> displays. We have designed the space for 40 participants. So we are looking >> for 16 more magazines and small presses. If you have not registered yet >> you can do so now by clicking here. >> The >> charge is a massive $25. We expect more than 1,000 people to peruse the >> tables and buy books and magazines -- so sign up now. >> >> Look for more news from us very shortly. And keep checking our always >> improving website: www.masspoetry.org, >> which >> has blog posts, resources, festival updates, student and youth program >> information, the forthcoming Common Threads program. Also, watch the videos >> we?ve included in the sidebar. >> >> All the best, >> >> January G. O?Neil >> Executive Director >> Mass Poetry Festival >> Massachusetts Poetry Festival >> http://masspoetry.org/ >> Office of Cultural Affairs & Special Events >> 375 Merrimack Street, Lowell, MA 01852 >> This email was sent to *anny.ballardini at gmail.com*. To ensure that you >> continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe >> list. >> >> *manage*your preferences | >> *opt out*using >> *TrueRemove*?. >> >> Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. >> >> [image: powered by emma] >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 13 15:53:55 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:53:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] intersection between poetry and peace Message-ID: <8CEB8A8BBC3EEE0-4B8-553A@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com> http://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/x1341767949/Hope-College-lecture-will-explore-poetry-and-pacifism Holland ? The intersection between poetry and peace will be the focus of two events featuring award-winning poet Fred Marchant on Feb. 22-23, through the A.J. Muste Memorial Lecture Series at Hope College. Marchant, who is a member of the faculty at Suffolk University, will present the address ?Another World Instead: Some Pacifist Poets and Poetics, from William Stafford to Occupy Wall Street? as this year?s A.J. Muste Memorial Lecture on Feb. 22. He also will give a poetry reading on Feb. 23. Both events will take place at 7:30 p.m. in Winants Auditorium of Graves Hall. The public is invited to both the lecture and the reading. Admission is free. Marchant?s address will explore a variety of questions, including whether or not there is a poetics of pacifism; whether or not an anti-war poem can accomplish real of lasting good; lessons that anti-war poets and poems teach about resistance to war and the affirmations of peace; and how such poetry might help foster and pass on a ?living tradition,? a consciousness and a conscience that will help inspire the peace-builders of the future. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 19:35:08 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:35:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. Message-ID: Hi all, Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is for me. Y'all can ignore. T -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 19:37:36 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:37:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You think we're going to let that pass us by? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > Hi all, > > Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only posted > to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is for me. > Y'all can ignore. > > > T > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 19:49:01 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:49:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It was really just for you, Hal. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You think we're going to let that pass us by? > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > On Barcelona (submissions sought; > email to my address above) > Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ > > Remains To Be Seen *, Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets > from the Basque & Other Poems > *, *Mainly Black , *Obras > P?blicas ; **The Perfection > of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory > of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ; **Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only posted >> to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is for me. >> Y'all can ignore. >> >> >> T >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Mon Feb 13 19:50:33 2012 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:50:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. Thanks, Millicent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 20:22:56 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:22:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I knew that. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > It was really just for you, Hal. > > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> You think we're going to let that pass us by? >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> On Barcelona (submissions sought; >> email to my address above) >> Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ >> >> Remains To Be Seen *, Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets >> from the Basque & Other Poems >> *, *Mainly Black , *Obras >> P?blicas ; **The >> Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory >> of Harmony >> ; **Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ; **Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only >>> posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is >>> for me. Y'all can ignore. >>> >>> >>> T >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Feb 13 21:43:20 2012 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham-RC) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:43:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Pinsky returns to the Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: References: <730E99F2FA554C8B85516E968F878365@BobHP> Message-ID: One of the most pleasant post-reading chats I ever had with a writer was with Pinsky. He'd said something about Robert Frost during his reading, and I went up to ask him something about it afterward. We actually had a nice brief but substantive conversation about Frost's work, during which he was not looking over my shoulder to be rescued or otherwise in a hurry to get out of there. Not always my experience with celebrated writers. Many are haughty, many are fairly awkward and shy, and some (who give too many readings) fairly broadcast their boredom at any required mingling. Also memorable for their generosity and charm, in my limited experience, were Donald Hall and Gwendolyn Brooks. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Feb 13, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:50 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > > I will half-resist the impulse to say something characteristically obnoxious > > about this festival by only saying that I will half-resist that impulse. > > A gold star for Bob! I don't follow Pinsky's work or travels, but I do > know his was one of the first poetry readings I ever saw and he was > captivating and generous in talking with me after the fact... > > I didn't know then how rare both of those things are of poets and > their readings. > > c > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 13 21:48:39 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:48:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> This entire list exists solely for Hal's benefit. It's kind of Borges' story in which the rest of us are only fictions of his imagination. -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Robinson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. It was really just for you, Hal. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: You think we're going to let that pass us by? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II), Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III), Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: Hi all, Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is for me. Y'all can ignore. T _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 23:05:01 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:05:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B76618F-E086-4060-90E7-A5A8BDF449F6@gmail.com> Reached me. Sent from my iPad On Feb 13, 2012, at 7:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > Hi all, > > Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is for me. Y'all can ignore. > > > T > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Feb 13 23:05:51 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:05:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Offhand, the names I think of are Kim Addonizio, John Hollander, Diane Ackerman, Paul Goodman, Sharon Olds, Thom Gunn... I'll look for specific poems tomorrow. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 13, 2012, at 19:50, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > Greetings, > > > I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. > > > Thanks, > > > Millicent > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 23:08:05 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:08:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Quite so, but it's not just this list that's here for my delight and amusement. It's the whole damn Universe, and the one next door as well. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:48 PM, wrote: > This entire list exists solely for Hal's benefit. It's kind of Borges' > story in which the rest of us are only fictions of his imagination. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Robinson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 7:49 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. > > It was really just for you, Hal. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> You think we're going to let that pass us by? >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> On Barcelona (submissions sought; >> email to my address above) >> Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ >> >> Remains To Be Seen *, Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets >> from the Basque & Other Poems >> *, *Mainly Black , *Obras >> P?blicas ; **The >> Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory >> of Harmony >> ; **Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ; **Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only >>> posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is >>> for me. Y'all can ignore. >>> >>> >>> T >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 23:59:21 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:59:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Huh. I thought this list existed for Bob's benefit... On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:48 PM, wrote: > This entire list exists solely for Hal's benefit. It's kind of Borges' > story in which the rest of us are only fictions of his imagination. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Robinson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 7:49 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. > > It was really just for you, Hal. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> You think we're going to let that pass us by? >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> On Barcelona (submissions sought; >> email to my address above) >> Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ >> >> Remains To Be Seen *, Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets >> from the Basque & Other Poems >> *, *Mainly Black , *Obras >> P?blicas ; **The >> Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory >> of Harmony >> ; **Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ; **Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just testing here. Last time I tried to post to the group, it only >>> posted to an individual. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, so this post is >>> for me. Y'all can ignore. >>> >>> >>> T >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 00:01:36 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:01:36 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. Message-ID: on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html --Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 14 06:33:47 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:33:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB8DA4A086BDD-2AB0-3882@webmail-d139. sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7C5F7CE82A224086BB05CC073C485B43@BobHP> From: Anthony Robinson Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:59 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Excuse me, but testing. Huh. I thought this list existed for Bob's benefit... Right, but I exist for Hal?s benefit. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 14 06:50:45 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:50:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amyraised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DAF78EB9F414EB28A793D0471B52D36@BobHP> From: Anthony Robinson Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:01 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html --Tony Gee, I dunno, Tony. It?s almost like something I?d write. Watch out: pretty soon you?ll be calling people morons. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 08:59:41 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:59:41 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amyraised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: <4DAF78EB9F414EB28A793D0471B52D36@BobHP> References: <4DAF78EB9F414EB28A793D0471B52D36@BobHP> Message-ID: Yeah, Bob. Not QUITE what you write. I am not, however, one of those who believes that in matters of art and taste, one should always "play nice" and that the only "good criticism" is a pat on the back and mutual admiration. We can call out those who we think are full of shit, as long as we're willing to take it. T. On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:50 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Anthony Robinson > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:01 AM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an > issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. > > on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: > > > http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html > > > --Tony > > Gee, I dunno, Tony. It?s almost like something *I?d* write. Watch out: > pretty soon you?ll be calling people morons. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 08:57:05 2012 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:57:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Valentines Day to all poets and lovers, and those heartbroken, or whose love has been unrequited... Message-ID: <1329227825.67368.YahooMailClassic@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Happy Valentines to all the lovers, those whove broken up, and those whose love never was for one reason or another... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_S70-CgFS4 "She Was a Dandelion Seed in the Wind" More poems from the "Lady of the Sweetest Smile" Series.. Stanzas for R_. Background Poems Songs She was a girl with whom I worked, and before I plucked up the courage to ask her out, though she may not have said "yes", she was gone... Truly, faint heart wins not the fair maiden! She has inspired many poems from me since, forminf the "Lady of the Sweetest Smile" series, being something of a muse, and would probably die of embarrassment if she knew! ? Lettera Damore ? Lady Of The Sweetest Smile Who Wipes Her Tears When She Cries? I Was The Reluctant Lover Whos Heart Does She Make Beat Faster? This Rainy Night, Where Is She? Her I Would Follow Dropping All She Who I Loved and Never Did And the World Always Turns My Heart Will Not Keep Her Warm Thought I: A Poem for Her I'll Write Should I Again Her Smile Not See She Was A Dandelion Seed In The Wind In Times Passing, Feelings Have Faded I Sit, Her Tonight Remembering I Loved Her, She Loved Horses Our Never Had Romance Lyrics A Fool For Love Impossible Why Is She On My Mind? A Dance Shared "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Tue Feb 14 09:08:45 2012 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:08:45 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tony--I love it; funny, fierce, smart--nice! Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:01:36 -0800 From: antrobin at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html --Tony _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 09:13:58 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:13:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1329228838.32047.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Take a look at Finding the Islands, W.S. Merwin. ? It's instructional for a number of reasons: one,?the haiku mannered?love poems are not terribly good. Asking: why such a weak volume from a major poet? --- On Mon, 2/13/12, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: From: Millicent Borges Accardi Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 7:50 PM Greetings, I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. Thanks, Millicent -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 09:35:48 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:35:48 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Sheila! (Yay! Somebody actually read something I wrote!) Tony On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:08 AM, sheila black wrote: > Tony--I love it; funny, fierce, smart--nice! > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:01:36 -0800 > From: antrobin at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue > Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. > > on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: > > > http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html > > > --Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 10:05:36 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:05:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Crunch Message-ID: <1329231936.13559.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Not exactly Wallace Stevens ...? often overwrought (armies running through/streets of blood)?... but among my favorite contemporary?poems. One can almost overlook much of the glib bs Bukowski writes because of the few powerful poems such as ? The Crunch too fat too thin or nobody. laughter or tears haters lovers strangers with faces like the backs of thumb tacks armies running through streets of blood waving winebottles bayoneting and fucking virgins. an old guy in a cheap room with a photograph of M. Monroe. there is a loneliness in this world so great that you can see it in the slow movement of the hands of a clock people so tired mutilated either by love or no love. people just are not good to each other one on one. the rich are not good to the rich the poor are not good to the poor. we are afraid. our educational system tells us that we can all be big-ass winners it hasn't told us about the gutters or the suicides. or the terror of one person aching in one place alone untouched unspoken to watering a plant. people are not good to each other. people are not good to each other. people are not good to each other. I suppose they never will be. I don't ask them to be. but sometimes I think about it. the beads will swing the clouds will cloud and the killer will behead the child like taking a bite out of an ice cream cone. too much too little too fat too thin or nobody more haters than lovers. people are not good to each other. perhaps if they were our deaths would not be so sad. meanwhile I look at young girls stems flowers of chance. there must be a way. surely there must be a way that we have not yet though of. who put this brain inside of me? it cries it demands it says that there is a chance. it will not say "no." ? By Charles Bukowski, ? -1, All rights reserved.? Show additional poem info Editor notes This poem was published in "Love is a Dog From Hell". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 10:56:19 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:56:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Creepy Valentine @ Poets and Writers Message-ID: <1329234979.35057.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Where's Barbie when you need her? "Sweet Talkin' Ken" takes Amy King's poem "Men by the Lips of Women" to creepy extremes in this special Valentine's Day installment of Clips. http://www.pw.org/content/creepy_valentine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 10:52:28 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:52:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1329234748.68408.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I concur!? A constructive effort - yay! ________________________________ From: sheila black Tony--I love it; funny, fierce, smart--nice! ________________________________ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:01:36 -0800 From: antrobin at gmail.com on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html --Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 11:18:34 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:18:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amyraised but the review is not about Amy. Message-ID: <1329236314.52060.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... the equally nebulous readers collectively known here as "most audiences," will find too difficult. ? Since when did a poetry reading public become "most audiences?" Does Nielson track this audience? ? Maybe certain poems come with a sitcom laugh track. ? --- On Tue, 2/14/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amyraised but the review is not about Amy. To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 6:50 AM ? ? From: Anthony Robinson Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:01 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issue Amy raised but the review is not about Amy. ? on my blog, concerning "difficult" poetry: http://horizonpoint.blogspot.com/2012/02/challenging-readers-review-of-review.html --Tony ? Gee, I dunno, Tony.? It?s almost like something I?d write.? Watch out: pretty soon you?ll be calling people morons. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 14 11:17:41 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:17:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issueAmyraised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: References: <4DAF78EB9F414EB28A793D0471B52D36@BobHP> Message-ID: <22AA4AAE7D7740DF905050D5CB7CFD41@BobHP> From: Anthony Robinson Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:59 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issueAmyraised but the review is not about Amy. Yeah, Bob. Not QUITE what you write. I am not, however, one of those who believes that in matters of art and taste, one should always "play nice" and that the only "good criticism" is a pat on the back and mutual admiration. We can call out those who we think are full of shit, as long as we're willing to take it. T. I hope to gather myself for a comment at your blog, Tony. Thought I?d first mention one slight problem that may well be with me: I was confused by one or two or three of the later ?don?ts in you list. Wasn?t sure whether they were really don?ts?or thought they were but found them awkwardly expressed. I also found a typo?misspelling of ?philosophy.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 11:27:15 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:27:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an issueAmyraised but the review is not about Amy. In-Reply-To: <22AA4AAE7D7740DF905050D5CB7CFD41@BobHP> References: <4DAF78EB9F414EB28A793D0471B52D36@BobHP> <22AA4AAE7D7740DF905050D5CB7CFD41@BobHP> Message-ID: Bob, I also notice a typo that you hadn't mentioned. And no, all of dont's weren't actually don'ts. Poetic license and such. But please do comment. T On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:17 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Anthony Robinson > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:59 AM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] a review of a review i did in response to an > issueAmyraised but the review is not about Amy. > > Yeah, Bob. Not QUITE what you write. > > I am not, however, one of those who believes that in matters of art and > taste, one should always "play nice" and that the only "good criticism" is > a pat on the back and mutual admiration. We can call out those who we > think are full of shit, as long as we're willing to take it. > > T. > > I hope to gather myself for a comment at your blog, Tony. Thought I?d > first mention one slight problem that may well be with me: I was confused > by one or two or three of the later ?don?ts in you list. Wasn?t sure > whether they were really don?ts?or thought they were but found them > awkwardly expressed. I also found a typo?misspelling of ?philosophy.? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 11:49:04 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:49:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] obligatory valentine poem Message-ID: Ode on a Whitman's Sampler Dear Sonnets we love you so unwholly as a lark Loves a loon in a transcendental bath In reeds. In Leeds, where my father?s from I Can?t deny it: all my shit comes from Television. Dear inner resource & impermeability come off That countertop & fuck me for a minute please Never give the lie to the low: a poet sometimes Has charisma & sometimes does not. My broken Elegies flake away, brilliant rust in out of season Dear Hart, Dear Stag [?] take away from mine Eyes these itsy-bitsy scraps of paper, peel away, Issue forth some venom, some gossamers, moon Light built up, around some trees as tissue. Make A bright dust Valentine, smudged with mud. W/ me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 13:09:08 2012 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:09:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Crunch In-Reply-To: <1329231936.13559.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329231936.13559.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not to mention necrophilia: "bayoneting and fucking virgins." or is it penis as bayonet? Overwrought and twisted, which is redundant, I know. - Jim On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:05 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Not exactly Wallace Stevens ... often overwrought (armies running > through/streets of blood) ... but among my favorite contemporary poems. One > can almost overlook much of the glib bs Bukowski writes because of the few > powerful poems such as > > The Crunch > > too fat > too thin > or nobody. > > laughter or > tears > > haters > lovers > > strangers with faces like > the backs of > thumb tacks > > armies running through > streets of blood > waving winebottles > bayoneting and fucking > virgins. > > an old guy in a cheap room > with a photograph of M. Monroe. > > there is a loneliness in this world so great > that you can see it in the slow movement of > the hands of a clock > > people so tired > mutilated > either by love or no love. > > people just are not good to each other > one on one. > > the rich are not good to the rich > the poor are not good to the poor. > > we are afraid. > > our educational system tells us > that we can all be > big-ass winners > > it hasn't told us > about the gutters > or the suicides. > > or the terror of one person > aching in one place > alone > > untouched > unspoken to > > watering a plant. > > people are not good to each other. > people are not good to each other. > people are not good to each other. > > I suppose they never will be. > I don't ask them to be. > > but sometimes I think about > it. > > the beads will swing > the clouds will cloud > and the killer will behead the child > like taking a bite out of an ice cream cone. > > too much > too little > > too fat > too thin > or nobody > > more haters than lovers. > > people are not good to each other. > perhaps if they were > our deaths would not be so sad. > > meanwhile I look at young girls > stems > flowers of chance. > > there must be a way. > > surely there must be a way that we have not yet > though of. > > who put this brain inside of me? > > it cries > it demands > it says that there is a chance. > > it will not say > "no." > > By Charles *Bukowski*, ? -1, All rights reserved. > ? Show additional poem info Editor > notes > > This poem was published in "Love is a Dog From Hell". > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 14 16:13:22 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:13:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEB9749DAB183E-2810-24626@webmail-m146.sysops.aol.com> One that comes to mind "Let Birds" by Linda Gregg. I'll see if I have it to post. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Snider To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 11:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? Offhand, the names I think of are Kim Addonizio, John Hollander, Diane Ackerman, Paul Goodman, Sharon Olds, Thom Gunn... I'll look for specific poems tomorrow. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 13, 2012, at 19:50, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: Greetings, I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. Thanks, Millicent _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 18:11:21 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:11:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rita Dove and John Ashbery shake hands ... Message-ID: <1329261081.33407.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> 2011 National Medals of Arts and Humanities Ceremony Prez celebrates Rita Dove @ 9:30 and John Ashbery @ 15:30 - http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2012/02/13/2011-national-medals-arts-and-humanities-ceremony Cheers, Amy p.s.?? Happy Creepy Valentine's Day @ Poets & Writers --? http://www.pw.org/content/creepy_valentine ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Tue Feb 14 18:38:13 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:38:13 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands Message-ID: I think amp up the ampersands!!!!: their original meaning was something like the "as follows" of the ":", but somehow these space-saving coils of energy have blazoned a comet's trail across the pages of some of my fiercest faves &,&,&, 've graced lines like gnostic gems, or the prayer beads wrapped around the left thumb and wrist of Kannon of a thousand faces. "Hey? What's that you're muttering, mush face?" [Pounding on the floor boards with a cane and screaming obliquely thru a crack]: "Amp up I say--Amp up the gawd-damned ampersands down there on Par-focking-nassis before I call the cops on yers!" Sound of sirens and breaking down of doors.... Milton never used 'em much to the Muse's disgust, but many a leveller (like the wond'rous Cope) did, as well as the obvious po-8's we all know. They say Goethe was tracing a letter with his finger over & over on the cloth of his death bed as he devolved into human compost...I think it was the & &&&&&&&&&--door to eternity ampersandedly, &e&&e &la&& From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 14 19:41:41 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:41:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Going to AWP? Use the Chicago Poetry Calendar dot ORG! Message-ID: <1329266501.36211.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Going to AWP? Don't forget to check Kristy Bowen's Chicago Poetry Calendar for happenings! It's an ORGanization because contributors are able to send in events too! http://www.chicagopoetrycalendar.org The chicago poetry calendar is a community organized blog for all things poetry-wise in Chicago. We are always looking for contributing members to post news, book reviews, essays, submission calls, new book and lit mag releases, and short postcards from readings around the greater Chicago area. Thanks, Kristy & Co.! --? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Tue Feb 14 21:57:59 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:57:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Millicent, The world's busier than I thought it would be, but here are three. The first is the title poem from Thom Gunn's heartbreaking Boss Cupid: The Problem Close to the top Of an encrusted dark Converted brownstone West of Central Park, (For this was 1961) In his room that, a narrow hutch, Was sliced from some once-cavernous flat, Where now a window took a whole wall up And tints were bleached-out by the sun Of many a summer day, We lay upon his thin bed. He seemed all body, such As normally you couldn't touch.. Reckless and rough, One of Boss Cupid's red- haired errand boys Who couldn't get there fast enough. Almost like fighting ... We forgot about the noise, But feeling turned so self-delighting That hurry soon gave way To give-and-take, Till each contested, for the other's sake, To end up not in winning and defeat But in a draw. Meanwhile beyond the aureate hair I saw A scrap of blackboard with its groove for chalk, Nailed to a strip of lath That had half-broken through, The problem drafted there still incomplete. After, I found out in the talk Companion to a cigarette, That he, turning the problem over yet In his disorderly and ordered head, Attended graduate school to teach And study math, his true Passion cyphered in chalk beyond my reach. Here's an untitled sonnet from John Hollander's Town and Country Matters (illustrated with x-rated line drawings by his wife Anne) I thought of turning you into a boy So that my queer friends, too, might feel the quick Of my longing when they red this, and the joy Of my having. But it's much too hard a trick Just as it is, to keep you breathing fast, Moving beneath me on this bed of paper. My lady is too volatile to last: How can I risk her substance to reshape her? Yes, that means you, sweet. I can feel you twist Against me still and freeze in a brief cry, My true deep secret that does not exist: Why should I break you out into a lie? No. Ed and Fred and Ted and Ike and Mike Will just have to imagine what it's like. And here's Kim Addonizio's "Kisses," from What Is this Thing Called Love All the kisses I've ever been given, today I feel them on my mouth. And my knees feel them, the reckless one's placed there through the holes in my jeans while I sat on a car hood or a broken sofa in somebody's basement, stoned, the way I was in those days, still amazed that boys and even men would want to lower their beautiful heads like horses drinking from a river and taste me. The back of my neck feels them, my hair swept aside to expose the nape, and my breasts tingled the way they did when my milk came in after the birth, when I was swollen, and sleepless, and my daughter fed and fed until I pried her from me and laid her in her crib. Even the chaste kisses that brushed my cheeks, the fatherly ones on my forehead, I feel them rising up from underneath the skin of the past, a delicate roseate rash; and the ravishing ones, God, I think of them and the filaments in my brain start buzzing crazily and flare out. Every kiss is here somewhere, all over me like a fine, shiny grit, like I'm a pale fish that's been dipped into a deep skillet, into burning. Today I know I've lost no one. My loves are here: wrists, eyelids, damp toes, all scars, and my mouth pouring praises, still asking. saying /kiss me/; when I'm dead kiss this poem, it need you to know it goes on, give it your lovely mouth, your living tongue. For what they're worth, here are a couple of mine: Unrequited I had a crush on Liz because one night She danced real slow with me and every beat, Since she was lame, her hip slipped tight Across my hard-on?Christ, but it was sweet! And Gina, who broke every hippie's heart, Her famous shorts she'd cut so short the hair Would glisten while she sat, those thighs apart To show she knew you knew, and didn't care? Truth is, I was in love with everyone, But most of all with Ronnie?when he'd sing His "Stranger Things" I'd almost come undone To hear him cry out "Mikey, do that thing!" And everything was in my mandolin, More than he wanted of all I'd ever been. Putting Clothes Away Lazy, I lie in bed and watch you bend Over the drawer, knees apart, your dress Barely reaching your thighs. I don't intend To take you from your work, just caress, Lightly, your supple calf, but then my hand Gets notions of its own and when you stop, A little, noticing, moves on. You stand Up half annoyed and half about to drop Every stitch. My fingers undo folds Of flesh and find the button just inside? My breath unravels when you press, then hold My hand away. "Just stop it now!" you chide? "Get up! I told you there was work to do? We'll see how that thing fits when we get through." www.mikesnider.org On Feb 13, 2012, at 19:50, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > Greetings, > > > I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. > > > Thanks, > > > Millicent > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 23:48:29 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:48:29 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: References: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *The Conjugation** of the Paramecium* Muriel Rukeyeser This has nothing to do with propagating The species is continued as so many are (among the smaller creatures) by fission (and this species is very small next in order to the amoeba, the beginning one) The paramecium achieves, then, immortality by dividing But when the paramecium desires renewal strength another joy this is what the paramecium does: The paramecium lies down beside another paramecium Slowly inexplicably the exchange takes place in which some bits of the nucleus of each are exchanged for some bits of the nucleus of the other This is called the conjugation of the paramecium. -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 08:56:02 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:56:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my own (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 09:53:10 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:53:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329317590.39220.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sleeping With Boa ? I show her how to put her arms around me, but she?s much too small. What?s worse, she doesn?t understand. And although she lies beside me, sticking out her tongue, it?s herself she licks. She likes my stroking hand. And even lets me kiss. But at my demand: ?Now, do it to me, like this,? she backs off with a hiss. What?s in her little mind? Jumping off the bed, she shows me her behind, but curls up on the rug instead. I beg her to return. At first, she did, then went and hid under the covers. She?s playing with my feet! ?Oh, Boa, come back. Be sweet, Lie against me here where I?m nice and warm. Settle down. Don?t claw, don?t bite. Stay with me tonight.? Seeming to consent, she gives a little whine. Her deep, deep pupils meet mine with a look that holds a flood ... But not my brand. Not at all. And, what?s worse, she?s much too small. May Swenson --- On Tue, 2/14/12, carol dorf wrote: From: carol dorf Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM The Conjugation of the Paramecium Muriel Rukeyeser ?This has nothing to do with propagating The species is continued as so many are (among the smaller creatures) by fission (and this species is very small next in order to the amoeba, the beginning one) The paramecium achieves, then, immortality by dividing But when the paramecium desires renewal strength another joy this is what the paramecium does: The paramecium lies down beside another paramecium Slowly inexplicably the exchange takes place in which some bits of the nucleus of each are exchanged for some bits of the nucleus of the other This is called the conjugation of the paramecium. -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 10:01:30 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:01:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Crunch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329318090.8705.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> not a shocking stanza. a shockingly bad stanza. --- On Tue, 2/14/12, James Cervantes wrote: From: James Cervantes Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Crunch To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 1:09 PM Not to mention necrophilia: "bayoneting and fucking virgins." or is it penis as bayonet? ?Overwrought and twisted, which is redundant, I know. - Jim? On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:05 AM, stephen russell wrote: Not exactly Wallace Stevens ...? often overwrought (armies running through/streets of blood)?... but among my favorite contemporary?poems. One can almost overlook much of the glib bs Bukowski writes because of the few powerful poems such as ? The Crunch too fat too thin or nobody. laughter or tears haters lovers strangers with faces like the backs of thumb tacks armies running through streets of blood waving winebottles bayoneting and fucking virgins. an old guy in a cheap room with a photograph of M. Monroe. there is a loneliness in this world so great that you can see it in the slow movement of the hands of a clock people so tired mutilated either by love or no love. people just are not good to each other one on one. the rich are not good to the rich the poor are not good to the poor. we are afraid. our educational system tells us that we can all be big-ass winners it hasn't told us about the gutters or the suicides. or the terror of one person aching in one place alone untouched unspoken to watering a plant. people are not good to each other. people are not good to each other. people are not good to each other. I suppose they never will be. I don't ask them to be. but sometimes I think about it. the beads will swing the clouds will cloud and the killer will behead the child like taking a bite out of an ice cream cone. too much too little too fat too thin or nobody more haters than lovers. people are not good to each other. perhaps if they were our deaths would not be so sad. meanwhile I look at young girls stems flowers of chance. there must be a way. surely there must be a way that we have not yet though of. who put this brain inside of me? it cries it demands it says that there is a chance. it will not say "no." ? By Charles Bukowski, ? -1, All rights reserved.? Show additional poem info Editor notes This poem was published in "Love is a Dog From Hell". _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 10:12:44 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:12:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <1329317590.39220.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329318764.64826.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> stole this from wompo: ? But Mays close attention to things of the senses and her original imagery are only one aspect of her genius.? Also significant is her delight in sensuality and the direct and sometimes playful (but serious) way she explored the subject, most notably in the poems of the posthumously published book The Love Poems of May Swenson. Look, for example, at these almost erotic lines from The Couple: A bee rolls in the yellow rose. Does she invite his hairy rub? He scrubs himself in her creamy folds; a bullet, soft imposes her spiral and, spinning burrows to her dewy shadows, Even early in her career, May playfully explored sexuality in some of her poems. One such poem published here for the first time, Once Upon, was typed ready for publication in the 1950s.? Zan Knutsen writes, however, that? May probably couldnt think of a publication in the 50s that would respond to its playfulness about sex:? Here is the first stanza; He said he felt as though She promised to do it when. They both agreed that if. Provided he waited then. Sensuality, nature, animals, iconographs, riddles, these were the stuff of a Swenson poem--sound and sense blended together until they were almost indistinguishable, one from the other.? But Mays teaspoon scooped the sea widely and in a 1978 interview with Karla Hammond, originally published in Parnasus, May said: Other poets may not be on any search other than into their own selves. But I've been on a search into the universe and the human mind. My intuition is the only launching pad I have, but scientists probably take off from intuition too.? As science moved steadily into the forefront of the national consciousness,? May became intensely interested in exploring the same arenas as the scientists,?? In Things Taking Place (1978) are such poems as First Walk on the Moon,? The Solar Corona, and Survey of the Whole (...worlds a lemon/wobbles in a loop/ around the sun.....), capture scientific concerns, and release them freshly through the poets poets consciousness, sensitivity and intuition. In the little room of May Swensons mind, an uncountable number of poems were conceived and written; she published 11 volumes of poetry during her lifetime and another four were published after her death. In addition she left several hundred unpublished poems, thousands of letters, a collection of dreams, drafts of unpublished stories, plays, novels, essays, and fifty=three years worth of diaries. Babette Deutsch wrote;? May Swenson turns a microscope on the minuscule, a telescope on the grand.?? And if May looked to outer space for her material, she also looked to inner space.? Her 1984 poem Mind,? (which was in an early draft of In Other Words but which she withdrew for more work), she explores inner consciousness;? Mind is a room/ in the room of the real/, she writes, This little room/ in the big room. On the night of December 2nd, 1989, May, had an asthma attack. The following day she told a visiting friend;? Bodies don't last forever, you know. I think mine is wearing out. I may not live much longer. Early the next morning, at age seventy-six, she died. She is buried in Logan, Utah, her gravestone, a bench, on which are engraved three poems: one west, one east, one toward the sky. The poem facing the sky, the one carved into the bench itself is this: The Exchange Now, my body flat, the ground breathes. Ill be the grass. Populous and mixed is mind. Earth, take thought. My mouth, be moss. Field, go walking. I, a disk, will look down with seeming eye. I will be time, and study to be evening. You, world, be clock. I will stand, a tree, here, never to know another spot. Wind, be motion. Birds, be passion. Water, invite me to your bed. And so, water begins and ends Mays life as a poet. Just as, on that fateful evening before her departure for a life in New York, the twenty-three year old poet set her life goal: to dip up the sea in spoonfuls,? at the end of her life, having accomplished her almost impossible goal, she surrenders her life back to the embrace of the water, leaving behind for us, the marvelous legacy of her poetry. ? Notes and Bibliography I wish to thank Zan Knutson, literary executor of May Swensons estate for the books, articles and supportive encouragement she offered me, as well as for her anecdotes about the poets poems and life.? The facts and quotes in this essay were taken from the following materials; May Swenson; a poets life in photos:? Knudson R.R., & Bigelow, Suzzanne, Utah State University Press, Logan, Utah, 1996 The Wonderful Pen of May Swenson:Knudson, R.R., MacMillan Publishing Co., NY, 1993 Made With Words, Swenson, May, edited by Gardner McFall, University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor, 1998 New & Selected Things Taking Place, Swenson, May,? Atlantic-Little, Brown Books, Boston & Toronto, 1954 The Love Poems of May Swenson, Swenson, May, Houghton Mifflin Company,? Boston, 1991 In Other Words, Swenson, May,?? Alfred A. Knopf, N.Y., 1992 Discovering May Swenson: The Most Distinguished American Poet of Mormon Heritage,? James, Rhett in Mormon Heritage, March/April, 1995 Back to Wompo Essays, Rants and Rambles --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 9:53 AM Sleeping With Boa ? I show her how to put her arms around me, but she?s much too small. What?s worse, she doesn?t understand. And although she lies beside me, sticking out her tongue, it?s herself she licks. She likes my stroking hand. And even lets me kiss. But at my demand: ?Now, do it to me, like this,? she backs off with a hiss. What?s in her little mind? Jumping off the bed, she shows me her behind, but curls up on the rug instead. I beg her to return. At first, she did, then went and hid under the covers. She?s playing with my feet! ?Oh, Boa, come back. Be sweet, Lie against me here where I?m nice and warm. Settle down. Don?t claw, don?t bite. Stay with me tonight.? Seeming to consent, she gives a little whine. Her deep, deep pupils meet mine with a look that holds a flood ... But not my brand. Not at all. And, what?s worse, she?s much too small. May Swenson --- On Tue, 2/14/12, carol dorf wrote: From: carol dorf Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM The Conjugation of the Paramecium Muriel Rukeyeser ?This has nothing to do with propagating The species is continued as so many are (among the smaller creatures) by fission (and this species is very small next in order to the amoeba, the beginning one) The paramecium achieves, then, immortality by dividing But when the paramecium desires renewal strength another joy this is what the paramecium does: The paramecium lies down beside another paramecium Slowly inexplicably the exchange takes place in which some bits of the nucleus of each are exchanged for some bits of the nucleus of the other This is called the conjugation of the paramecium. -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Feb 15 10:19:06 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:19:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] obligatory valentine poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Saved my ass at the last minute last night with this one: Celestial Valentine Who could believe me if I said our love Was necessary in a cosmic sense? I wouldn't touch that with a fireproof glove. Who could believe me if I said our love Was random, like the scattered stars above, A massively sublime coincidence? Could you believe me if I said our love Was necessary in a cosmic sense? www.mikesnider.org On Feb 14, 2012, at 11:49, Anthony Robinson wrote: > Ode on a Whitman's Sampler > > > > > > Dear Sonnets we love you so unwholly as a lark > > Loves a loon in a transcendental bath > > In reeds. In Leeds, where my father?s from I > > Can?t deny it: all my shit comes from Television. > > Dear inner resource & impermeability come off > > That countertop & fuck me for a minute please > > Never give the lie to the low: a poet sometimes > > Has charisma & sometimes does not. My broken > > Elegies flake away, brilliant rust in out of season > > Dear Hart, Dear Stag [?] take away from mine > > Eyes these itsy-bitsy scraps of paper, peel away, > > Issue forth some venom, some gossamers, moon > > Light built up, around some trees as tissue. Make > > A bright dust Valentine, smudged with mud. W/ me. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 10:21:01 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:21:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <1329318764.64826.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329319261.33341.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... moreover, and thanks to Mitt, when we're tempted to dismiss things Mormon, think of May Swenson and her background ...also,?as stated below, she?never took a class or workshop in poetry ...? was easily the most visually gifted poet of her generation ...?said differently: ?the one who wrote the most flamboyent, visual poems ... ? ... many honors include -- ...? an invitation to the White House and perhaps most notably, The Bolligen Prize in 1981,The MacArthur Fellowship in 1987, (?). and an appointment as a chancellor to The among them, teaching Academy of American Poets.? All this and fifteen books of poetry!? Quite an achievement for a shy woman, uncomfortable at reading and public life, who once considered herself? ouneducated, and? who had never taken a class or workshop in poetry! --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 10:12 AM stole this from wompo: ? But Mays close attention to things of the senses and her original imagery are only one aspect of her genius.? Also significant is her delight in sensuality and the direct and sometimes playful (but serious) way she explored the subject, most notably in the poems of the posthumously published book The Love Poems of May Swenson. Look, for example, at these almost erotic lines from The Couple: A bee rolls in the yellow rose. Does she invite his hairy rub? He scrubs himself in her creamy folds; a bullet, soft imposes her spiral and, spinning burrows to her dewy shadows, Even early in her career, May playfully explored sexuality in some of her poems. One such poem published here for the first time, Once Upon, was typed ready for publication in the 1950s.? Zan Knutsen writes, however, that? May probably couldnt think of a publication in the 50s that would respond to its playfulness about sex:? Here is the first stanza; He said he felt as though She promised to do it when. They both agreed that if. Provided he waited then. Sensuality, nature, animals, iconographs, riddles, these were the stuff of a Swenson poem--sound and sense blended together until they were almost indistinguishable, one from the other.? But Mays teaspoon scooped the sea widely and in a 1978 interview with Karla Hammond, originally published in Parnasus, May said: Other poets may not be on any search other than into their own selves. But I've been on a search into the universe and the human mind. My intuition is the only launching pad I have, but scientists probably take off from intuition too.? As science moved steadily into the forefront of the national consciousness,? May became intensely interested in exploring the same arenas as the scientists,?? In Things Taking Place (1978) are such poems as First Walk on the Moon,? The Solar Corona, and Survey of the Whole (...worlds a lemon/wobbles in a loop/ around the sun.....), capture scientific concerns, and release them freshly through the poets poets consciousness, sensitivity and intuition. In the little room of May Swensons mind, an uncountable number of poems were conceived and written; she published 11 volumes of poetry during her lifetime and another four were published after her death. In addition she left several hundred unpublished poems, thousands of letters, a collection of dreams, drafts of unpublished stories, plays, novels, essays, and fifty=three years worth of diaries. Babette Deutsch wrote;? May Swenson turns a microscope on the minuscule, a telescope on the grand.?? And if May looked to outer space for her material, she also looked to inner space.? Her 1984 poem Mind,? (which was in an early draft of In Other Words but which she withdrew for more work), she explores inner consciousness;? Mind is a room/ in the room of the real/, she writes, This little room/ in the big room. On the night of December 2nd, 1989, May, had an asthma attack. The following day she told a visiting friend;? Bodies don't last forever, you know. I think mine is wearing out. I may not live much longer. Early the next morning, at age seventy-six, she died. She is buried in Logan, Utah, her gravestone, a bench, on which are engraved three poems: one west, one east, one toward the sky. The poem facing the sky, the one carved into the bench itself is this: The Exchange Now, my body flat, the ground breathes. Ill be the grass. Populous and mixed is mind. Earth, take thought. My mouth, be moss. Field, go walking. I, a disk, will look down with seeming eye. I will be time, and study to be evening. You, world, be clock. I will stand, a tree, here, never to know another spot. Wind, be motion. Birds, be passion. Water, invite me to your bed. And so, water begins and ends Mays life as a poet. Just as, on that fateful evening before her departure for a life in New York, the twenty-three year old poet set her life goal: to dip up the sea in spoonfuls,? at the end of her life, having accomplished her almost impossible goal, she surrenders her life back to the embrace of the water, leaving behind for us, the marvelous legacy of her poetry. ? Notes and Bibliography I wish to thank Zan Knutson, literary executor of May Swensons estate for the books, articles and supportive encouragement she offered me, as well as for her anecdotes about the poets poems and life.? The facts and quotes in this essay were taken from the following materials; May Swenson; a poets life in photos:? Knudson R.R., & Bigelow, Suzzanne, Utah State University Press, Logan, Utah, 1996 The Wonderful Pen of May Swenson:Knudson, R.R., MacMillan Publishing Co., NY, 1993 Made With Words, Swenson, May, edited by Gardner McFall, University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor, 1998 New & Selected Things Taking Place, Swenson, May,? Atlantic-Little, Brown Books, Boston & Toronto, 1954 The Love Poems of May Swenson, Swenson, May, Houghton Mifflin Company,? Boston, 1991 In Other Words, Swenson, May,?? Alfred A. Knopf, N.Y., 1992 Discovering May Swenson: The Most Distinguished American Poet of Mormon Heritage,? James, Rhett in Mormon Heritage, March/April, 1995 Back to Wompo Essays, Rants and Rambles --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 9:53 AM Sleeping With Boa ? I show her how to put her arms around me, but she?s much too small. What?s worse, she doesn?t understand. And although she lies beside me, sticking out her tongue, it?s herself she licks. She likes my stroking hand. And even lets me kiss. But at my demand: ?Now, do it to me, like this,? she backs off with a hiss. What?s in her little mind? Jumping off the bed, she shows me her behind, but curls up on the rug instead. I beg her to return. At first, she did, then went and hid under the covers. She?s playing with my feet! ?Oh, Boa, come back. Be sweet, Lie against me here where I?m nice and warm. Settle down. Don?t claw, don?t bite. Stay with me tonight.? Seeming to consent, she gives a little whine. Her deep, deep pupils meet mine with a look that holds a flood ... But not my brand. Not at all. And, what?s worse, she?s much too small. May Swenson --- On Tue, 2/14/12, carol dorf wrote: From: carol dorf Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 11:48 PM The Conjugation of the Paramecium Muriel Rukeyeser ?This has nothing to do with propagating The species is continued as so many are (among the smaller creatures) by fission (and this species is very small next in order to the amoeba, the beginning one) The paramecium achieves, then, immortality by dividing But when the paramecium desires renewal strength another joy this is what the paramecium does: The paramecium lies down beside another paramecium Slowly inexplicably the exchange takes place in which some bits of the nucleus of each are exchanged for some bits of the nucleus of the other This is called the conjugation of the paramecium. -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 11:58:32 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands Message-ID: <1329325112.1321.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & ampersands on Amphetamines -- ? Side effects: restlessness or tremor; anxiety or nervousness; headache or dizziness; insomnia; dry mouth or an unpleasant taste in the mouth; diarrhea or constipation; or impotence or changes in sex drive. ? Psychological effects may include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggression, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, grandiosity, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur.[9][10] ? have you ever suffered from ampersand psychosis? those "space-saving coils of energy" ?ahadada at gol.com> wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 6:38 PM I think amp up the s!!!!: their original meaning was something like the "as follows" of the ":", but somehow these space-saving coils of energy have blazoned a comet's trail across the pages of some of my fiercest faves &,&,&, 've graced lines like gnostic gems, or the prayer beads wrapped around the left thumb and wrist of Kannon of a thousand faces.? "Hey?? What's that you're muttering, mush face?" [Pounding on the floor boards with a cane and screaming obliquely thru a crack]: "Amp up I say--Amp up the gawd-damned ampersands down there on Par-focking-nassis before I call the cops on yers!" Sound of sirens and breaking down of doors.... Milton never used 'em much to the Muse's disgust, but many a leveller (like the wond'rous Cope) did, as well as the obvious po-8's we all know. They say Goethe was tracing a letter with his finger over & over on the cloth of his death bed as he devolved into human compost...I think it was the & &&&&&&&&&--door to eternity ampersandedly, &e&&e &la&& _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Feb 15 11:56:04 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:56:04 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" poetry trumps all else. c On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:56 AM, bob grumman wrote: > Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my own > (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: > Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 12:08:26 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:08:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands In-Reply-To: <1329325112.1321.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329325706.6191.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & what's wrong with a little increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability?... ? a little euphoria?-- ? tell me what's wrong ? with anything at all involving a little ? of all of that? ? 'cause it sounding better & better -- ? ? --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 11:58 AM & ampersands on Amphetamines -- ? Side effects: restlessness or tremor; anxiety or nervousness; headache or dizziness; insomnia; dry mouth or an unpleasant taste in the mouth; diarrhea or constipation; or impotence or changes in sex drive. ? Psychological effects may include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggression, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, grandiosity, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur.[9][10] ? have you ever suffered from ampersand psychosis? those "space-saving coils of energy" ?ahadada at gol.com> wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 6:38 PM I think amp up the s!!!!: their original meaning was something like the "as follows" of the ":", but somehow these space-saving coils of energy have blazoned a comet's trail across the pages of some of my fiercest faves &,&,&, 've graced lines like gnostic gems, or the prayer beads wrapped around the left thumb and wrist of Kannon of a thousand faces.? "Hey?? What's that you're muttering, mush face?" [Pounding on the floor boards with a cane and screaming obliquely thru a crack]: "Amp up I say--Amp up the gawd-damned ampersands down there on Par-focking-nassis before I call the cops on yers!" Sound of sirens and breaking down of doors.... Milton never used 'em much to the Muse's disgust, but many a leveller (like the wond'rous Cope) did, as well as the obvious po-8's we all know. They say Goethe was tracing a letter with his finger over & over on the cloth of his death bed as he devolved into human compost...I think it was the & &&&&&&&&&--door to eternity ampersandedly, &e&&e &la&& _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 12:14:35 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:14:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands In-Reply-To: <1329325706.6191.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329326075.23697.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> but the nay sayers bum me out -- ? & ? Physical effects of ampersands?may include severe addiction, hyperactivity, dilated pupils, vasoconstriction, bs lood shot eyes, flushing, restlessness, dry mouth, bruxism, headache, tachycardia, bradycardia, tachypnea, hypertension, hypotension, fever, diaphoresis, diarrhea, constipation, blurred vision, aphasia, dizziness, twitching, insomnia, numbness, palpitations, arrhythmias, tremors, dry and/or itchy skin, acne, pallor, convulsions, and with chronic and/or high doses, seizure, stroke, coma, heart attack and death can occur.[ --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 12:08 PM & what's wrong with a little increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability?... ? a little euphoria?-- ? tell me what's wrong ? with anything at all involving a little ? of all of that? ? 'cause it sounding better & better -- ? ? --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 11:58 AM & ampersands on Amphetamines -- ? Side effects: restlessness or tremor; anxiety or nervousness; headache or dizziness; insomnia; dry mouth or an unpleasant taste in the mouth; diarrhea or constipation; or impotence or changes in sex drive. ? Psychological effects may include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggression, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, grandiosity, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur.[9][10] ? have you ever suffered from ampersand psychosis? those "space-saving coils of energy" ?ahadada at gol.com> wrote: From: ahadada at gol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] AmperAmperAmpersands To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 6:38 PM I think amp up the s!!!!: their original meaning was something like the "as follows" of the ":", but somehow these space-saving coils of energy have blazoned a comet's trail across the pages of some of my fiercest faves &,&,&, 've graced lines like gnostic gems, or the prayer beads wrapped around the left thumb and wrist of Kannon of a thousand faces.? "Hey?? What's that you're muttering, mush face?" [Pounding on the floor boards with a cane and screaming obliquely thru a crack]: "Amp up I say--Amp up the gawd-damned ampersands down there on Par-focking-nassis before I call the cops on yers!" Sound of sirens and breaking down of doors.... Milton never used 'em much to the Muse's disgust, but many a leveller (like the wond'rous Cope) did, as well as the obvious po-8's we all know. They say Goethe was tracing a letter with his finger over & over on the cloth of his death bed as he devolved into human compost...I think it was the & &&&&&&&&&--door to eternity ampersandedly, &e&&e &la&& _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 12:14:58 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:14:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329326098.38200.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> A lot of ego-driven (driveling) I's for one motto, polished off with a sarcastic disclaimer to be as offensive as possible.? Sounds about right. ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" poetry trumps all else. c On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:56 AM, bob grumman wrote: > Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my own > (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: > Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 12:22:53 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:22:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:56 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" poetry trumps all else. c My understanding of "understanding" may be different from yours, Chris, if you weren't just trying to misrepresent me. Surely you have read enough of my criticism to know that I focus almost entirely on what poems do or fail to do to give pleasure. But one reason I posted my motto was to get feedback, and yours helps: > Try for maximal understanding AND APPRECIATION OR LACK THEREOF of what I'm > critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant > suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. I'm not sure whether I need to say what I mean by the advance of poetry. It would, for me, include pointing out what's good in Wilshberia. --Bob From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Feb 15 12:50:24 2012 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:50:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Favorite_erotic_poem=3F__Brenda_C=E1r?= =?iso-8859-1?q?denas?= In-Reply-To: <1329317590.39220.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Entering this thread late & without poring through all the posts (but not without an ampersand!), I offer a nice erotic poem I just discovered. Brenda C?rdenas is giving a reading for us next week, in fact. Sonnet for Thunder Lovers and Primary Colors (When Sweet Nothings Just Don't Cut It) You're more than soda fizz, than sparklers lit for kids at play, than fireflies' flit in sky. You spin around my heart and up my thigh with the whistle and boom of a bottle rocket. Baby, those other jugglers' gigolo tricks -- magician's spell and mime's unspoken sigh -- don't turn my head, don't catch my ear or eye, but your mercury rolls in my hip pocket. Some women like the subtle hints, require a pastel touch, a whispered cry and blush, but not me; I am all hyperbole. Your howls of red, your strokes of green sapphire, your cayenne kiss, serrano pepper rush from lip to nape of knee will do for me. --Brenda C?rdenas http://voices.e-poets.net/CardenasB/poem-sonnet.shtml ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Feb 15 12:53:30 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:53:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Favorite_erotic_poem=3F__Brenda_C=C3=A1rde?= =?utf-8?q?nas?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like this a lot, David! Gonna have to look for her work. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 15, 2012, at 12:50, David Graham wrote: > Entering this thread late & without poring through all the posts (but not without an ampersand!), I offer a nice erotic poem I just discovered. > > Brenda C?rdenas is giving a reading for us next week, in fact. > > Sonnet for Thunder Lovers and Primary Colors > > (When Sweet Nothings Just Don't Cut It) > > You're more than soda fizz, than sparklers lit > for kids at play, than fireflies' flit in sky. > You spin around my heart and up my thigh > with the whistle and boom of a bottle rocket. > Baby, those other jugglers' gigolo tricks -- > magician's spell and mime's unspoken sigh -- > don't turn my head, don't catch my ear or eye, > but your mercury rolls in my hip pocket. > > Some women like the subtle hints, require > a pastel touch, a whispered cry and blush, > but not me; I am all hyperbole. > Your howls of red, your strokes of green sapphire, > your cayenne kiss, serrano pepper rush > from lip to nape of knee will do for me. > > --Brenda C?rdenas > http://voices.e-poets.net/CardenasB/poem-sonnet.shtml > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 12:53:56 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329328436.81154.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> You could throw a few more "I's" in - that would make it ad nauseum clear.? The newly-added qualifier would be closer to the case if you simplified it, "LACK OF APPRECIATION THEREIN".? But if you're worried, add more made-up words that no one else has taken up despite years of your bandying them about, plus another preemptive insult or two (i.e. to validate your one-liners / quips, "This guy sucks."), should anyone dare challenge.? Regarding your definition of what it means for poetry to "advance," spare us.? It's implicit in your "motto." ________________________________ From: bob grumman My understanding of "understanding" may be different from yours, Chris, if you weren't just trying to misrepresent me.? Surely you have read enough of my criticism to know that I focus almost entirely on what poems do or fail to do to give pleasure.? But one reason I posted my motto was to get feedback, and yours helps: > Try for maximal understanding AND APPRECIATION OR LACK THEREOF of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, asI understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. I'm not sure whether I need to say what I mean by the advance of poetry.? It would, for me, include pointing out what's good in Wilshberia. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 13:08:53 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:08:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Favorite erotic poem? In-Reply-To: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEB8C9CAA6ED39-18B8-164E8@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Here's one: *Sexologic* The shoe squeaks when rubbed excessively: it can't possible shine more --so it squeaks. There was soap, oil, wax. That old cartoon by Oski: a shoe shine man makes smoke come out of his flannel rag: "Like this, or would you prefer them toasted a bit more?" The client's persistence is reasonable: in the words of admirable Dr. Gregorio Mara??n he who wears well-polished shoes, fucks a lot. Not even Freud came up with something so sound. --Gerardo Deniz tr. M?nica de la Torre Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > Greetings, > > > I'm teaching a two day course on erotic poetry and would like to get ideas from folks on this list as to their favorite erotic poems. > > > Thanks, > > > Millicent > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Feb 15 13:12:55 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:12:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Favorite_erotic_poem=3F__Brenda_C=C3=A1rde?= =?utf-8?q?nas?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's some video with a voiceover of Cardenas reading a poem: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/poetryeverywhere/uwm/cardenas.html At book of voices there's a selection of text and audio, including the sonnet David posted: http://voices.e-poets.net/CardenasB/intro.shtml the introductory essay talks about "interlingual" vs "bilingual" with her work as an example. Mentions Spanglish and Yiddish as parts of the process of creating a new language out of a two or more ancestral languages, but doesn't mention English as she is spoken as the the product of the same process after the Norman invasion. Interestingly, the sonnet is the only one of the bunch which is entirely in English. I like this poem at the Poetry Foundation: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/241762 www.mikesnider.org On Feb 15, 2012, at 12:50, David Graham wrote: > Entering this thread late & without poring through all the posts (but not without an ampersand!), I offer a nice erotic poem I just discovered. > > Brenda C?rdenas is giving a reading for us next week, in fact. > > Sonnet for Thunder Lovers and Primary Colors > > (When Sweet Nothings Just Don't Cut It) > > You're more than soda fizz, than sparklers lit > for kids at play, than fireflies' flit in sky. > You spin around my heart and up my thigh > with the whistle and boom of a bottle rocket. > Baby, those other jugglers' gigolo tricks -- > magician's spell and mime's unspoken sigh -- > don't turn my head, don't catch my ear or eye, > but your mercury rolls in my hip pocket. > > Some women like the subtle hints, require > a pastel touch, a whispered cry and blush, > but not me; I am all hyperbole. > Your howls of red, your strokes of green sapphire, > your cayenne kiss, serrano pepper rush > from lip to nape of knee will do for me. > > --Brenda C?rdenas > http://voices.e-poets.net/CardenasB/poem-sonnet.shtml > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 14:38:41 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:38:41 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: All of you people irritate the hell out of me. Best, Tony On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it > doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any > *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" > poetry trumps all else. > > c > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:56 AM, bob grumman > wrote: > > Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my > own > > (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: > > Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to > the > > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best > balance > > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant > suppression > > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Feb 15 15:01:30 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:01:30 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <33D5A51C053B4BCF8C41A78C1E82BBCD@BobHP> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > All of you people irritate the hell out of me. No surprise there. Best, c From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 15:30:18 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:30:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Message-ID: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Movies have Roger Ebert. Wine has Robert Parker. Videogames, Marc Doyle. & poetry, Grumman ... journalism, when it was still journalism, had Menken ... to afflict the comfortable, and comfort the afflicted ... I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: ?? Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. ... since a minimal degree of understanding seems good enough for most critics, all of the above is an honorable credo. --- On Wed, 2/15/12, Anthony Robinson wrote: From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 2:38 PM All of you people irritate the hell out of me. Best,Tony On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Chris Lott wrote: Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" poetry trumps all else. c On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:56 AM, bob grumman wrote: > Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my own > (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: > Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 15:49:10 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:49:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> what is criticism if it fails to offend? what do poets expect? country club back slaps? --- On Wed, 2/15/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 3:30 PM Movies have Roger Ebert. Wine has Robert Parker. Videogames, Marc Doyle. & poetry, Grumman ... journalism, when it was still journalism, had Menken ... to afflict the comfortable, and comfort the afflicted ... I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: ?? Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. ... since a minimal degree of understanding seems good enough for most critics, all of the above is an honorable credo. --- On Wed, 2/15/12, Anthony Robinson wrote: From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 2:38 PM All of you people irritate the hell out of me. Best,Tony On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Chris Lott wrote: Sounds about right to describe your criticism, particularly in that it doesn't include anything about the work in question actually being any *good* or providing pleasure or being beautiful, since "advancing" poetry trumps all else. c On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:56 AM, bob grumman wrote: > Thinking about what Tony had at his blog spurred me to this motto of my own > (obnoxious) practice as a poetry critic: > Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 16:18:36 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:18:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <303A0FD4E3D64ABFA032C859269DA559@BobHP> Am I wimping out? I changed the motto to: ?Using the the best balance of clarity and fresh language I can manage, try to express maximal understanding of the nature and value of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the advance of poetry, as I see it.? Then it occurred to me that "the value of what I'm critiquing" would include what the latter does to advance poetry. So I now have: ?Using the the best balance of clarity and fresh language I can manage, try to express maximal understanding of the nature and value of what I'm critiquing.? Doesn?t say all that much, I don?t think. Too valid to be interesting. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 15:51:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:51:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <412E37B0544644E18C1027C9EC4B869F@BobHP> Movies have Roger Ebert. Wine has Robert Parker. Videogames, Marc Doyle. & poetry, Grumman ... journalism, when it was still journalism, had Menken ... to afflict the comfortable, and comfort the afflicted ... I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendable. ... since a minimal degree of understanding seems good enough for most critics, all of the above is an honorable credo. Thanks, Stephen (even though you misspelled ?Mencken!?). I?m thinking maybe I shouldn?t have let my annoyance with the easily offended into the motto. The important thing is trying for understanding (and I believe that understanding equals appreciation although I guess I need to mention the appreciation explicitly), cogency and to advance the art. It?s a motto-in-progress. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 16:43:07 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:43:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329342187.62641.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow, Stephen - How could we have missed the parallel? ?Clearly he has the respect and audiences of an Ebert, a Mencken, et al. ? Jim had to close access to New Poetry: they're beating the doors down for this stuff! Anthony: ?we aim to please. x, A ________________________________ From: stephen russell? Movies have Roger Ebert. Wine has Robert Parker. Videogames, Marc Doyle. & poetry, Grumman ... journalism, when it was still journalism, had Menken ...to afflict the comfortable, and comfort the afflicted ... I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: ?? Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. ... since a minimal degree of understanding seems good enough for most critics, all of the above is an honorable credo. --- On Wed, 2/15/12, Anthony Robinson?wrote: >From: Anthony Robinson? > > >All of you people irritate the hell out of me. > > >Best, >Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 16:49:15 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:49:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> One criteria of criticism: to offend. ?Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a motto like Bob's! ________________________________ From: stephen russell? what is criticism if it fails to offend? what do poets expect? country club back slaps? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Feb 15 17:12:06 2012 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:12:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2/15/12 2:49 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: > what is criticism if it fails to offend? > what do poets expect? > > country club back slaps? ================================= Is there an option C? I don?t like A or B. . . . -- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 17:15:08 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (ANTHONY ROBINSON) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:15:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20af51bf-1502-4264-a12d-a86f243fc47e@email.android.com> I think some folks here do expect that. Sent from my Kindle Fire _____________________________________________ From: David Graham Sent: Wed Feb 15 14:12:06 PST 2012 To: NewPoetry Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic On 2/15/12 2:49 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: what is criticism if it fails to offend? what do poets expect? country club back slaps? ================================= Is there an option C? I don?t like A or B. . . . -- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 17:16:36 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:16:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Celebrate art & poetry of Basil King In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Basil's Arc: The Paintings and Poetics of Basil King* We, The Friends of Basil King, have organized to call attention to Basil?s amazing work straddling *two* major creative forms ? painting and poetry. While his books and public readings have garnered praise and attention, the vast majority of his visual work has never been publically available. We have commissioned a film, *Basil King: Mirage, *by Nicole Peyrafitte and Miles Joris-Peyrafitte, to depict the intimacy between writing and painting in his work, with special attention to his visual art. Here is a one-minute trailer: http://vimeo.com/tawilproductions/miragefilm This film will premiere as part of *?Basil?s Arc ? The Paintings and Poetics of Basil King*,*?* celebrating his achievements. We'll have talks and performances along with the film -- on September 22, 2012, in New York City. We have already raised half the funds needed to complete the film and host the event! We need $7,000 to complete the project. Please join with us in creating a memorable introduction to what George Quasha called ?a self-contained civilization waiting for visitors.? TO DONATE BY CREDIT CARD OR PAY PAL ACCOUNT click this link and use the DONATE button. http://www.blog.basilking.net/?p=205 Lunar Chandelier, Kim Lyon's small press, is hosting the online donations. If you prefer to SEND A CHECK, make it out to Kimberly Lyons, with "Basil's Arc" on the memo line. Mail to Kim c/o V. Bakaitis, 323 Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11201. *Even small gifts will help get us there.* The Friends of Basil King: *Mitch Highfill, Vincent Katz,** Burt Kimmelman, Martha King, Kimberly Lyons* * * *Please consider forwarding this appeal to anyone you know who may also be interested. * For more information about the film or the program, visit the King Ink blog at www.basilking.net *Our early advisors, friends, and supporters:* Bill Berkson Vyt Bakaitis David Kirschenbaum Nicole Peyrafitte Miles Joris-Peyrafitte Tom Patterson Elinor Nauen John High George Stanley Eileen Tabios George Quasha Jeffrey C. Wright Mark Lamoureux Lee Ann Brown Lewis Warsh Eileen Myles Karen Yager Kyle Schlesinger Ping Chong Harry Lewis Dave Gearey Michael Mann Bob Crozier Sol Israel Barbara Lyons Sanjay Agnihotri Daina and Forrest Claypool --and Anonymous -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Feb 15 17:24:27 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:24:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <20af51bf-1502-4264-a12d-a86f243fc47e@email.android.com> References: <20af51bf-1502-4264-a12d-a86f243fc47e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4F3C309B.306@louisiana.edu> Come on, Tony--you grabbed the high ground with the funniest post of the year. Now don't sink to our level. Jerry On 2/15/2012 4:15 PM, ANTHONY ROBINSON wrote: > > I think some folks here do expect that. > > Sent from my Kindle Fire > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *Sent:* Wed Feb 15 14:12:06 PST 2012 > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic > > > > > On 2/15/12 2:49 PM, "stephen russell" > wrote: > > what is criticism if it fails to offend? > what do poets expect? > > country club back slaps? > > ================================= > > Is there an option C? I don't like A or B. . . . > > > -- > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 17:26:13 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:26:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com> <1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> From: amy king Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:49 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic One criteria of criticism: to offend. Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a motto like Bob's! No, one criterion of criticism is not to worry about possibly offending someone. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Feb 15 17:22:02 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:22:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F3C300A.3070104@louisiana.edu> Well, Lorca's choices were just as bad--he said that poets deserve challenges, not testimonials. (Like there's much of either of those floating around here.) Jerry On 2/15/2012 4:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On 2/15/12 2:49 PM, "stephen russell" > wrote: > > what is criticism if it fails to offend? > what do poets expect? > > country club back slaps? > > ================================= > > Is there an option C? I don't like A or B. . . . > > > -- > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Feb 15 17:32:40 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:32:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com> <1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> Message-ID: <4F3C3288.7000408@louisiana.edu> This seems like a more generic credo than you're allowing for, Bob. Doe it really have to do with poetry criticism, or just the way one lives one's life? And if not, why not? Jerry On 2/15/2012 4:26 PM, bob grumman wrote: > *From:* amy king > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:49 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic > > One criteria of criticism: to offend. Sounds like you've got the > beginnings of a motto like Bob's! > No, one criterion of criticism is not to worry about possibly > offending someone. > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Feb 15 17:43:20 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:43:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com> <1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329345800.90200.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Who you talking to, "Bob"? ?Take away the "motto," what 's left? ? I, I, I, ?... wilshbibbliooctics, etc. ?Some real savvy criticism (a la Bob), "Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry." ?And many other 'offerings' of that ilk. ? > Try for maximal understanding AND APPRECIATION OR LACK THEREOF of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible.? --Care of "Bob's Motto" Or in "Bob's" own words, "The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism ..." ________________________________ From: bob grumman? One criteria of criticism: to offend.? Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a motto like Bob's! ? No, one criterion of criticism is not to worry about possibly offending someone. ? --Bob? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 17:43:16 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:43:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <4F3C3288.7000408@louisiana.edu> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com><1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> <4F3C3288.7000408@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <3F7FC4EC4C3443F8BCD2C56A90FC82FD@BobHP> From: Jerry McGuire Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:32 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic This seems like a more generic credo than you're allowing for, Bob. Does it really have to do with poetry criticism, or just the way one lives one's life? And if not, why not? Jerry I think it applies to art criticism in general not to everyday living just as trying to hit someone else as hard as you can in football, where anyone you try to hit should be expecting it, is okay but not in every day living. Also, I feel that complete honesty is valuable in criticism but not necessarily elsewhere. --Bob On 2/15/2012 4:26 PM, bob grumman wrote: From: amy king Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:49 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic One criteria of criticism: to offend. Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a motto like Bob's! No, one criterion of criticism is not to worry about possibly offending someone. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 15 18:48:24 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:48:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329345800.90200.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com><1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> <1329345800.90200.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C1C104AE9C9438BAB71B3C23A37F167@BobHP> From: amy king Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:43 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Who you talking to, "Bob"? Take away the "motto," what 's left? I, I, I, ... wilshbibbliooctics, etc. Not sure how to express something called ?my motto? without the use of ?I,? but maybe someone can advise me. Some real savvy criticism (a la Bob), "Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry." And many other 'offerings' of that ilk. It?s a motto I try to live up to when writing criticism?but everything I write isn?t criticism; little of what I post here is. > Try for maximal understanding AND APPRECIATION OR LACK THEREOF of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendable. --Care of "Bob's Motto" Or in "Bob's" own words, "The only thing worse than third-rate poetry is third-rate criticism ..." From: bob grumman One criteria of criticism: to offend. Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a motto like Bob's! No, one criterion of criticism is not to worry about possibly offending someone. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 19:39:52 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:39:52 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <4F3C309B.306@louisiana.edu> References: <20af51bf-1502-4264-a12d-a86f243fc47e@email.android.com> <4F3C309B.306@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Jerry, Don't worry. Not sinking. Just treading a bit. Cut me some slack. I was on a bus. Hard to be thoughtful and witty when you're on a bus and people are jostling you, all elbows and such. In that situation, everyone annoys me. Now I have coffee! Tony On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Come on, Tony--you grabbed the high ground with the funniest post of the > year. Now don't sink to our level. > > Jerry > > On 2/15/2012 4:15 PM, ANTHONY ROBINSON wrote: > > I think some folks here do expect that. > Sent from my Kindle Fire > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *Sent:* Wed Feb 15 14:12:06 PST 2012 > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic > > > > > On 2/15/12 2:49 PM, "stephen russell" > wrote: > > what is criticism if it fails to offend? > what do poets expect? > > country club back slaps? > > ================================= > > Is there an option C? I don?t like A or B. . . . > > > -- > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506jlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Feb 15 20:57:50 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:57:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet Message-ID: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> Maybe 30 years old, never published, though I used to send it out a lot: We Are A Kind Of Map A buzzer-beating three-point shot reveals We're born to know our truths about this world, And so is everything: a fly conceals Itself till it's grown wings and they've unfurled; A virus has the key for just the cell Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying, Creates an army ready to repel Precisely that invader or die trying. Of course that's metaphor, but not a lie, Not just a way of trying to impose Some sense on senselessness, a useless "Why?" We answer till we like what we suppose. We'll make mistakes -- but make them unafraid: We see the world with eyes the world has made. www.mikesnider.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 15 21:29:27 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:29:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <4F3C3288.7000408@louisiana.edu> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> <4F3C3288.7000408@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CEBA69F099AEE9-1994-24D15@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> One could do worse than the Hippocratic notion, 'First, do no harm'. Or "Remember, you know less than you think and more than you can say." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 04:46:23 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 01:46:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: If I were editor of someplace you'd sent this, I'd have this feedback: [can't say since anything less than rosy in this forum tends to get hackles upped]. If you are interested at all, back channel at me. t On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > Maybe 30 years old, never published, though I used to send it out a lot: > > We Are A Kind Of Map > > > > A buzzer-beating three-point shot reveals > > We're born to know our truths about this world, > > And so is everything: a fly conceals > > Itself till it's grown wings and they've unfurled; > > A virus has the key for just the cell > > Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying, > > Creates an army ready to repel > > Precisely that invader or die trying. > > Of course that's metaphor, but not a lie, > > Not just a way of trying to impose > > Some sense on senselessness, a useless "Why?" > > We answer till we like what we suppose. > > We'll make mistakes -- but make them unafraid: > > We see the world with eyes the world has made. > > www.mikesnider.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 06:03:31 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:03:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <8CEBA69F099AEE9-1994-24D15@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com><1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP><4F3C3288.7000408 @louisiana.edu> <8CEBA69F099AEE9-1994-24D15@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:29 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic One could do worse than the Hippocratic notion, 'First, do no harm'.Surgeons do no harm?Or "Remember, you know less than you think and more than you can say."Which is why my motto starts, ?Try.? ?Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 07:36:46 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:36:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <6C1C104AE9C9438BAB71B3C23A37F167@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1329338950.12276.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com><1329342555.70781.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><6FBAB7C8A5044DAC86C6C43236643EFD@BobHP> <1329345800.90200.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6C1C104AE9C9438BAB71B3C23A37F167@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329395806.22800.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: bob grumman ? Not sure how to express something called ?my motto? without the use of ?I,? but maybe someone can advise me. ? Or express anything at all, for that matter.? Empathy, and other forms of engagement that don't feed "Bob's advancement" of the world, via any medium, never seem to enter the equation.? ? ? It?s a motto I try to live up to when writing criticism?but everything I write isn?t criticism; little of what I post here is. ? You'll have to edit the motto so we can distinguish when you're writing criticism as opposed to being your usual, ahem, "critical" self. ? All of those blanket, unsubstantiated claims beg for a similarly "critical" response, even when you use made-up words to prove their merit!?? Some real savvy criticism (a la Bob), "Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry."? And many other 'offerings' of that ilk.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 07:47:54 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:47:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <1329396474.21947.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Oh come now, Tony, we like puppy dog tails and all the stuff little boys are made of!? Take the gloves off.? No more Mr. Nice Guy!? Hit 'em where it counts.? I would go on, but I forget the mottoes. Criticism gets a bad rap, and representation, at New Poetry today.? It's either 'rosy country club swings' or Bob's version of insult and make-believe designed to garner attention.? ________________________________ From: Anthony Robinson If I were editor of someplace you'd sent this, I'd have this feedback:? [can't say since anything less than rosy in this forum tends to get hackles upped].? If you are interested at all, back channel at me. t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 08:03:35 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 05:03:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] On Ana Bozicevic's "War on a Lunchbreak" Message-ID: <1329397415.29493.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Ana Bozicevic's new-ish Belladonna chaplet, War on a Lunchbreak, and in particular the eponymous poem inside it, rules. Why?" Read the review + : http://nickytiso.blogspot.com/2011/12/on-ana-bozicevics-war-on-lunchbreak.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 16 08:12:26 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 07:12:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> I'd actually be curious about what this as-if editor might say if s/he spoke through your mouth. I can't speak for Mike, but he explicitly points out that the poem is thirty years old and never published; I doubt he'd object to some comments that might be instructive for the rest of us, too. For me the poem feels like some thirty- (or forty-) year-old sonnets of mine--earnest, witty in particular places, and a little draggy overall from its not-quite-comfortable involvement with the received form. (And yeah, I think most editors who mostly publish "free" verse would feel something like this, while an editor who publishes lots of received-formal work might feel that a poem of this metrical regularity kind of slips with "Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying"; in a looser sonnet it might work fine; against all these regularities it jars a bit.) I _don't_ think that (i. e., my hypothetical editor wouldn't think that) of the feminine rhyming of "in dying" and "die trying," one of the really nice twists of wit here. The twist into idiomatic diction there, though, doesn't quite resonate with stuff like "unfurled" or "unafraid"--the very center of the earnestness I mentioned. Then there's the idea (actually, ideas) of the poem: I'm always a fan of poems that begin with hoops imagery, but it dumps us straight into that conventional "reveals"/"conceals" ("truth"!) rhyme; that feels forced to me. This begins a pattern of a good image followed by an over-explicit declaration--a pattern that ought to be called "Sonnet Syndrome." The poem, it seems to me (from the vantage of these thirty years) is trying to wrestle a great thoughtfulness into vital images, but keeps getting dragged down by its formal requirements. Mike, is there anything there you find a gross insult to your intelligence or craft? Anyone else have a corrective at hand for my lapses and mistakes? Jerry On 2/16/2012 3:46 AM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > If I were editor of someplace you'd sent this, I'd have this > feedback: [can't say since anything less than rosy in this forum > tends to get hackles upped]. If you are interested at all, back > channel at me. > t > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Michael Snider > > wrote: > > Maybe 30 years old, never published, though I used to send it out > a lot: > > We Are A Kind Of Map > > > > A buzzer-beating three-point shot reveals > > We're born to know our truths about this world, > > And so is everything: a fly conceals > > Itself till it's grown wings and they've unfurled; > > A virus has the key for just the cell > > Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying, > > Creates an army ready to repel > > Precisely that invader or die trying. > > Of course that's metaphor, but not a lie, > > Not just a way of trying to impose > > Some sense on senselessness, a useless "Why?" > > We answer till we like what we suppose. > > We'll make mistakes -- but make them unafraid: > > We see the world with eyes the world has made. > > > www.mikesnider.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70506 jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 16 09:32:20 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:32:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Jerry, that's a pretty good read of the poem. On the days when it irritates me, it seems like there's just too much going on, like there's stuff just crammed in. "unafraid" is especially bad - especially in the last couplet - partly because it's a flat lie, and partly because such a bad and pompous line does not serve the last line, of which I am perhaps too fond. But I like reveal/conceal with fly larvae and 3-point shots. Tony, if you're still so inclined, I'd welcome any comments either here or back-channel at sonneteer at mikesnider.org I don't mean to treat the list as a workshop on my work. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:12, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I'd actually be curious about what this as-if editor might say if s/he spoke through your mouth. I can't speak for Mike, but he explicitly points out that the poem is thirty years old and never published; I doubt he'd object to some comments that might be instructive for the rest of us, too. > > For me the poem feels like some thirty- (or forty-) year-old sonnets of mine--earnest, witty in particular places, and a little draggy overall from its not-quite-comfortable involvement with the received form. (And yeah, I think most editors who mostly publish "free" verse would feel something like this, while an editor who publishes lots of received-formal work might feel that a poem of this metrical regularity kind of slips with "Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying"; in a looser sonnet it might work fine; against all these regularities it jars a bit.) I _don't_ think that (i. e., my hypothetical editor wouldn't think that) of the feminine rhyming of "in dying" and "die trying," one of the really nice twists of wit here. The twist into idiomatic diction there, though, doesn't quite resonate with stuff like "unfurled" or "unafraid"--the very center of the earnestness I mentioned. Then there's the idea (actually, ideas) of the poem: I'm always a fan of poems that begin with hoops imagery, but it dumps us straight into that conventional "reveals"/"conceals" ("truth"!) rhyme; that feels forced to me. This begins a pattern of a good image followed by an over-explicit declaration--a pattern that ought to be called "Sonnet Syndrome." The poem, it seems to me (from the vantage of these thirty years) is trying to wrestle a great thoughtfulness into vital images, but keeps getting dragged down by its formal requirements. > > Mike, is there anything there you find a gross insult to your intelligence or craft? Anyone else have a corrective at hand for my lapses and mistakes? > > Jerry > > > On 2/16/2012 3:46 AM, Anthony Robinson wrote: >> >> If I were editor of someplace you'd sent this, I'd have this feedback: [can't say since anything less than rosy in this forum tends to get hackles upped]. If you are interested at all, back channel at me. >> t >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Michael Snider wrote: >> Maybe 30 years old, never published, though I used to send it out a lot: >> >> We Are A Kind Of Map >> >> >> A buzzer-beating three-point shot reveals >> We're born to know our truths about this world, >> And so is everything: a fly conceals >> Itself till it's grown wings and they've unfurled; >> A virus has the key for just the cell >> Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying, >> Creates an army ready to repel >> Precisely that invader or die trying. >> Of course that's metaphor, but not a lie, >> Not just a way of trying to impose >> Some sense on senselessness, a useless "Why?" >> We answer till we like what we suppose. >> We'll make mistakes -- but make them unafraid: >> We see the world with eyes the world has made. >> >> www.mikesnider.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506 > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 10:40:22 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 07:40:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329342187.62641.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329406822.98679.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Wow, another bulls eye ... again, wow ... --- On Wed, 2/15/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 4:43 PM Wow, Stephen - How could we have missed the parallel? ?Clearly he has the respect and audiences of an Ebert, a Mencken, et al. ? Jim had to close access to New Poetry: they're beating the doors down for this stuff! Anthony: ?we aim to please. x, A From: stephen russell? Movies have Roger Ebert. Wine has Robert Parker. Videogames, Marc Doyle. & poetry, Grumman ... journalism, when it was still journalism, had Menken ... to afflict the comfortable, and comfort the afflicted ... I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: ?? Try for maximal understanding of what I'm critiquing, fully committed to the > advance of poetry, as I understand it, and expressed with the best balance > of clarity and fresh language I can manage--with no significant suppression > of emotion, regardless of the tender feelings of the hyper-offendible. ... since a minimal degree of understanding seems good enough for most critics, all of the above is an honorable credo. --- On Wed, 2/15/12, Anthony Robinson?wrote: From: Anthony Robinson? All of you people irritate the hell out of me. Best,Tony -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Feb 16 10:54:08 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:54:08 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > > I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2) such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 16 10:54:07 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:54:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: OK, not a workshop, but I posted a revision to my blog: http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog Comments are welcome there. From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 11:07:34 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:07:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329408454.26207.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination I agree ... if I had said challenge rather than offend ... but I said what I said and what I said wasn't well said. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 10:54 AM On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > > I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2)? such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 11:22:49 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:22:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329408454.26207.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329409369.71131.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?(c. 375 BC) Painters/poets, banned from The Republic. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 11:07 AM The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination I agree ... if I had said challenge rather than offend ... but I said what I said and what I said wasn't well said. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 10:54 AM On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > > I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2)? such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 11:23:30 2012 From: wlantry at gmail.com (W.F. Lantry) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:23:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, Well said! Came across this little gem from Cervantes the other day. Don't know why I thought of it when reading Bob's mission statement: "Modesty, tis a virtue not often found among poets, for almost every one of them thinks himself the greatest in the world." Or this one, from the same source: "From reading too much, and sleeping too little, his brain dried up on him and he lost his judgment." Thanks, Bill On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell > wrote: > > > > > > I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: > > The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since > contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by > shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and > productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his > copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of > poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's > agenda," and 2) such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of > things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy > part of them. > > Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such > offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather > than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to > think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't > offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can > come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is > criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example > it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a > reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a > convincing case about problems, etc. > > But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) > casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of > the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's > jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and > light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be > diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is > offensive. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 11:53:26 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:53:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04970447A419414B840D34C1EA5FBEF8@BobHP> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:54 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > > I fail to see what's offensive in the following construction: The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2) such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c I, of course, think you've got me wrong, Chris (amazingly wrong, in fact). I might add that I don't believe I've ever written about you the way you've written about me in the preceding, although that may be because you're beyond criticism. I really wish you had the strength of character to do your demolition right--by critiquing an actual sample of my criticism, the book, From Haiku to Lyriku,, that you were once kind enough to buy from me, and showing, with cited material, the applicability of what you have said here about me. Clueless about myself as I am, I feel my "agenda" there was the advance of haiku from the classical haiku of Basho and Issa through the conventional but sometimes excellent haiku of people like Jack Kerouac, of all people, and Robert Spiess, on into what I call "lyriku"--because so many people involved with haiku have trouble accepting them as haiku; these include many free verse variations of haiku, some quite conventional (which I nonetheless praise) but many quite unconventional specimens, even some I have trouble with. Obviously, in this book, at any rate, I don't write as though criticism ought to offend. I don't conceal my negativity toward some poems, and some ideas about poetry, but am much more positive than negative in the book as a whole. I use the first person singular a lot--always wanting to remind people that I'm not expressing The Truth but merely my view of things. I also discuss a number of my own poems, because they seem to me good examples of things I want to write about, and because I feel confident that I know something about them. So, show me I'm wrong, Chris, instead of emptily imitating New-Poetry's leading authority on me. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 11:56:48 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:56:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org><4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: From: Michael Snider Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:32 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet Jerry, that's a pretty good read of the poem. On the days when it irritates me, it seems like there's just too much going on, like there's stuff just crammed in. "unafraid" is especially bad - especially in the last couplet - partly because it's a flat lie, and partly because such a bad and pompous line does not serve the last line, of which I am perhaps too fond. But I like reveal/conceal with fly larvae and 3-point shots. Tony, if you're still so inclined, I'd welcome any comments either here or back-channel at sonneteer at mikesnider.org I don't mean to treat the list as a workshop on my work. Why shouldn?t a workshop for various poets? work be what it most should try to be -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 12:02:34 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:02:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 12:12:16 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:12:16 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: Actually, "that's interesting" usually does the job, or maybe "that's nice." Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, bob grumman wrote: > One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a > critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone > who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 12:23:48 2012 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:23:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? Message-ID: University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has asked me to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews and then send the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have contacts, but I have have only a few. Questions: Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine contact their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be interested in considering" X for review? Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to reviewing experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are some formal poems in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know about Selby's list, but it's often hard to figure out how to contact the press beyond donations or submissions. Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of thinking about this? Etc. Skip Fox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 12:33:22 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:33:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good news on the book, Skip--and, yes, you should be sending me material for On Barcelona. Spit-spot. And, gracias in advance. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this > spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has asked me > to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews and then send > the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have contacts, but I have > have only a few. > > Questions: > > Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine contact > their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be interested in > considering" X for review? > > Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to reviewing > experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are some formal poems > in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know about Selby's list, but > it's often hard to figure out how to contact the press beyond donations or > submissions. > > Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of > thinking about this? Etc. > > Skip Fox > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 16 13:02:26 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:02:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F3D44B2.1070405@louisiana.edu> I can't believe _you'd_ have to ask me about places that review university- and small-press publications, Skip. You know a lot more about that than I do. _Rain Taxi_, of course, and _Verse_, which publishes loads of reviews on-line as well as in print. I'm going to contact Brian Clements (who used to edit Sentence and now runs Firewheel publications) about good possibilities. I also wouldn't shy away (if I were you) from having acquaintances review the book or pass it on to someone else for review. Just get a firm commitment, so you don't wind up giving away too many copies. And of course, there's always Nate Pritts, though I assume you'll have to go through his agent. Jerry On 2/16/2012 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this > spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has > asked me to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews > and then send the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have > contacts, but I have have only a few. > Questions: > Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine > contact their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be > interested in considering" X for review? > Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to > reviewing experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are > some formal poems in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know > about Selby's list, but it's often hard to figure out how to contact > the press beyond donations or submissions. > Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of > thinking about this? Etc. > Skip Fox > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html ______________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 16 13:04:27 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:04:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F3D452B.1030106@louisiana.edu> I certainly think you should query people first--Micah Ballard, April Fallon, etc. They could do the review themselves or (more likely) have a good proxy in mind. Jerry On 2/16/2012 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this > spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has > asked me to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews > and then send the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have > contacts, but I have have only a few. > Questions: > Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine > contact their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be > interested in considering" X for review? > Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to > reviewing experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are > some formal poems in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know > about Selby's list, but it's often hard to figure out how to contact > the press beyond donations or submissions. > Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of > thinking about this? Etc. > Skip Fox > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html ______________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 13:07:38 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:07:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at -- the internet, I suppose. 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda. Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned. Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or kick him out. 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say it. 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue it. That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. Best, Tony On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Actually, "that's interesting" usually does the job, > or maybe "that's nice." > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > On Barcelona (submissions sought; > email to my address above) > Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ > > Remains To Be Seen *, Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets > from the Basque & Other Poems > *, *Mainly Black , *Obras > P?blicas ; **The Perfection > of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory > of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ; **Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, bob grumman wrote: > >> One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a >> critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone >> who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 13:22:31 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:22:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: Offensive? B-bob?? No way. I'm never for kicking anybody out. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, > thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at > -- the internet, I suppose. > > 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many > years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I don't > know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. > > 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately > call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda. > Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no > problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned. > Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I > applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. > > 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in > his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric > terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the > unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or > kick him out. > > 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or > Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say > it. > > 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the > basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and > Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or > advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry > criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive > by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are > attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does > that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue > it. > > That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry > or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. > > Best, > Tony > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Actually, "that's interesting" usually does the job, >> or maybe "that's nice." >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> On Barcelona (submissions sought; >> email to my address above) >> Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ >> >> Remains To Be Seen *, Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains >> To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets >> from the Basque & Other Poems >> *, *Mainly Black , *Obras >> P?blicas ; **The >> Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory >> of Harmony >> ; **Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ; **Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, bob grumman wrote: >> >>> One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a >>> critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone >>> who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Feb 16 13:32:46 2012 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:32:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: <4F3D452B.1030106@louisiana.edu> References: <4F3D452B.1030106@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4F3D4BCE.7010605@louisiana.edu> I apologize for posting these personal notes to Skip on the list--though I'm glad to see that Hal picked up on it. One clarification: for anyone who doesn't know him (and might think I'm being snide), Nate Pritts is one of our wonderfully successful young poet/editors. Google the heck out of him. Jerry On 2/16/2012 12:04 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I certainly think you should query people first--Micah Ballard, April > Fallon, etc. They could do the review themselves or (more likely) have > a good proxy in mind. > > Jerry > > On 2/16/2012 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this >> spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has >> asked me to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews >> and then send the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have >> contacts, but I have have only a few. >> Questions: >> Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine >> contact their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be >> interested in considering" X for review? >> Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to >> reviewing experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are >> some formal poems in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know >> about Selby's list, but it's often hard to figure out how to contact >> the press beyond donations or submissions. >> Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of >> thinking about this? Etc. >> Skip Fox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > ________________________________________________________ > > Jerry McGuire > English Department Box 44691 > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70504-4691 > 337-482-5478 > Creative Writing Website: > http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html > ______________________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ________________________________________________________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html ______________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 13:32:40 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:32:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59688B21531F4A8D9CD3634CBE3BBA8C@BobHP> From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:33 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? Good news on the book, Skip--and, yes, you should be sending me material for On Barcelona. Spit-spot. And, gracias in advance. Yes, very good news. Not sure I can be of much help, but I know lots of poets have copies of their books sent to Small Press Review and some of them get sent to me for review. But I?ve had people send SPR books suggesting I might want to review them that were never sent to me. And I?ve sent some of my own books in for review without their being reviewed! What happens, I?m fairly sure, is that batches of books are sent to various reviewers who elect not to review certain of them, and that?s it, they?re not passed on. I have done that?not wanting to but not finding the time to do all the reviews requested. I?ve also written reviews that never appeared?just too many books and not enough pages?although there?s no zero-sum game involved. The other venue I have done reviews for is the online magazine Pedestal; you might try it, but it?s what I call you-know-what. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 13:44:26 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:44:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: <8D037515100B44A78BF3590AF4C0BBDF@BobHP> From: Anthony Robinson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:07 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at -- the internet, I suppose. 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda. Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned. Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or kick him out. 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say it. 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive by anyone on this list had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue it. That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. Best, Tony Thanks, Tony. You capture pretty closely what I think I come across as (because I am an old crank, although I do also no doubt play the role, too), and my take on the reaction is close to yours. Interesting, too, that my motto got no criticism of substance, and no one seems to have kept up with my own thoughts about it and revisions to it. I think the question of what a critic?s motto ought to be should be fun to think about for poets. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 13:49:57 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:49:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <8D037515100B44A78BF3590AF4C0BBDF@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> <8D037515100B44A78BF3590AF4C0BBDF@BobHP> Message-ID: Ars longa, vita brevis. Now there's a *motto* any critic (or artist) should be able to live with (for a while). Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:44 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Anthony Robinson > *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:07 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic > > I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, > thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at > -- the internet, I suppose. > > 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many > years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I don't > know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. > > 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately > call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda. > Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no > problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned. > Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I > applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. > > 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in > his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric > terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the > unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or > kick him out. > > 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or > Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say > it. > > 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the > basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and > Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or > advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry > criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive > by anyone on this list had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are > attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does > that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue > it. > > > That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry > or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. > > Best, > Tony > > Thanks, Tony. You capture pretty closely what I think I come across as > (because I *am *an old crank, although I do also no doubt play the role, > too), and my take on the reaction is close to yours. Interesting, too, > that my motto got no criticism of substance, and no one seems to have kept > up with my own thoughts about it and revisions to it. I think the question > of what a critic?s motto ought to be should be fun to think about for > poets. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 13:47:15 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:47:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: <59688B21531F4A8D9CD3634CBE3BBA8C@BobHP> References: <59688B21531F4A8D9CD3634CBE3BBA8C@BobHP> Message-ID: And to think, Jerry-- I "knew" Nate way back when. Back then! When we were both aspirants. I'm still aspiring. T On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:32 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:33 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? > > Good news on the book, Skip--and, yes, you should be sending me material > for On Barcelona. Spit-spot. And, gracias in advance. > > Yes, very good news. Not sure I can be of much help, but I know lots of > poets have copies of their books sent to *Small Press Review* and some of > them get sent to me for review. But I?ve had people send *SPR *books > suggesting I might want to review them that were never sent to me. And > I?ve sent some of my own books in for review without their being reviewed! > What happens, I?m fairly sure, is that batches of books are sent to various > reviewers who elect not to review certain of them, and that?s it, they?re > not passed on. I have done that?not wanting to but not finding the time to > do all the reviews requested. I?ve also written reviews that never > appeared?just too many books and not enough pages?although there?s no > zero-sum game involved. The other venue I have done reviews for is the > online magazine Pedestal; you might try it, but it?s what I call > you-know-what. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 13:58:19 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:58:19 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> <8D037515100B44A78BF3590AF4C0BBDF@BobHP> Message-ID: My vita is too brevis. So is my ars. t On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ars longa, vita brevis. Now there's a *motto* any critic (or artist) > should be able to live with (for a while). > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > On Barcelona (submissions sought; > email to my address above) > Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ > > Remains To Be Seen *, Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains > To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets > from the Basque & Other Poems > *, *Mainly Black , *Obras > P?blicas ; **The Perfection > of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory > of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ; **Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:44 PM, bob grumman wrote: > >> >> >> *From:* Anthony Robinson >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:07 PM >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic >> >> I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, >> thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at >> -- the internet, I suppose. >> >> 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. >> Many years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I >> don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. >> >> 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I >> semi-affectionately call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF >> COURSE his agenda. Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most >> in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all >> be damned. Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost >> never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. >> >> 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in >> his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric >> terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the >> unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or >> kick him out. >> >> 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or >> Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say >> it. >> >> 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the >> basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and >> Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or >> advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry >> criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive >> by anyone on this list had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are >> attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does >> that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue >> it. >> >> >> That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry >> or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. >> >> Best, >> Tony >> >> Thanks, Tony. You capture pretty closely what I think I come across as >> (because I *am *an old crank, although I do also no doubt play the role, >> too), and my take on the reaction is close to yours. Interesting, too, >> that my motto got no criticism of substance, and no one seems to have kept >> up with my own thoughts about it and revisions to it. I think the question >> of what a critic?s motto ought to be should be fun to think about for >> poets. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 16:09:16 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:09:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329426556.91348.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Tony, While yours sounds quite reasonable and well-intentioned, it also echoes privilege in the form of "boys will be boys" via the "old crank" should be forgiven for saying offensive things and forgotten at every turn.? He's just a cranky old dude, after all.? But.? I cannot read the "Bob" I know from New Poetry as a newborn entity with each post anymore than I can walk into a room and greet the demanding narcissist who drops racist bombs with fresh eyes and open arms.?? As I've noted in the past, only to have met with much resistance, a few folks' 'behavior' here has created an unwelcoming or, at the very least, unsupportive posting climate for women, and likely others I don't know of (Go on, take me task - I'm saying this bc it makes me so popular and wins me friends & female posters are plentiful and long-standing members).? I count Bob's insistence and "curmudgeonly" manner / responses among those few.? So I will not divorce what I see as Bob's patterns and his agenda (yes, everyone has one), from the way I reply to Bob anymore than I will hug the narcissist when he asks for more attention.? As you note, we all have the right to speak; I don't see why I am (or anyone) supposed to be selective and forgetful of the Bob I've come to know when I reply.? If my disdain comes through, I would point out that mine is focused on who I see as the culprit and specifically addresses what he posts, while Bob's echoes throughout the list, for some time now, and affects a good number of people with his sweeping dismissals, nasty characterizations, etc.? Why is the "curmudgeon" excused such expression, but I am to be policed?? "Let's let him say it" applies across the board. Further, where is the "attack?"? Chris has offered point-by-point critical response.? And I addressed specifics in "Bob's" "motto," esp his continuous use of "I" represents his undying push to dominate New Poetry discussions with his agenda as well as his preemptive qualifier to insult and dismiss anyone who may challenge his murky "criticism" (or is it critical pall?) (oh the hypersensitives!).? I'm supposed to forget who I'm addressing and ignore any "cranky old dude" hints to boot?? As noted, I have every right to reply, as does anyone else who posts, and I addressed his motto post directly.?? **And seriously, this reductive characterization that any response now will be akin to "But he started it" is one way of dismissing any problem anyone has with the "curmudgeon" as child's play, as though no one could actually have a meritorious issue / problem with Bob's postings / posturings.?? This preemptive dismissal reminds me of when I ask why women don't post in this combative atmosphere more often.? Oh I know, I'm just being one of those simple-thinking feminists - everyone likes women on New Poetry and responds so nicely, historically, to what they post.? So what the heck am I talking about - he's just an "old crank"!? Forget what any of the few women who were willing to speak up said; there's no merit in my claims or their words - we're imagining things.? Long live the cuddly crank of a curmudgeon and anything he says to advance his agenda (bc we've all got one) - let's forget and forgive dudes who affect the rooms they occupy in favor of cute nicknames that cloud over repeat behaviors that fill the room with "brave" farts.? Pardon my quickie metaphor, Amy ________________________________ From: Anthony Robinson I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at -- the internet, I suppose. 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many years.? I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then.? I don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent.? 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately call "an old crank."? He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda.? Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned.?? Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or kick him out. 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say it. 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past.?? Not really helpful or advancing any discussion.?? Case:? Bob's recent "motto" of poetry criticism.? NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman.?? Some folks are attacking the man, not what he says.?? Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does that!? Bob started it!"?? Very well.? That doesn't mean we have to continue it. That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry or a poem to criticize.? I will, of course, link my efforts here. Best, Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 16:19:14 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:19:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <04970447A419414B840D34C1EA5FBEF8@BobHP> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <04970447A419414B840D34C1EA5FBEF8@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329427154.70999.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Now we're supposed to buy and discuss your book to understand what you say on the list?? Or else we have weak characters~! ________________________________ From: bob grumman I, of course, think you've got me wrong, Chris (amazingly wrong, in fact). I might add that I don't believe I've ever written about you the way you've written about me in the preceding, although that may be because you're beyond criticism.? I really wish you had the strength of character to do your demolition right--by critiquing an actual sample of my criticism, the book, From Haiku to Lyriku,, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 16:30:22 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:30:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the "attack"? In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329427822.55133.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This reply is, point by point, in direct response to said motto, including the note that criticism should offend. ? I honestly don't see the "attack."?? ________________________________ From: Chris Lott The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2)? such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 16:44:01 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:44:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Gender Parity on Conference Panels + A Reply from the Organizer Message-ID: <1329428641.71755.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> As AWP approaches, I thought this appropriate to share (from another listserv): Gender parity: A Special Guest Post - http://www.gollancz.co.uk/2012/02/gender-parity-a-special-guest-post/ ~~~~~ A response from Dave Bradley, of SFX.? -- http://sophiamcdougall.livejournal.com/18631.html And my own separate thoughts on previous issues such as AWP via Childcare and Panel Selection - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Best, Amy ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 16:50:29 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:50:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329427154.70999.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><04970447A419414B840D34C1EA5FBEF8@BobHP> <1329427154.70999.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: amy king Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:19 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Now we're supposed to buy and discuss your book to understand what you say on the list? Or else we have weak characters~! Learn to read, Amy. I am asking Chris, not you or anyone else, to use a book of mine that he already has to verify the negative things he said about me. I would never expect you to buy my book. It has my name on the front of it, so it?s an obvious specimen of worthless narcissism. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bob grumman I, of course, think you've got me wrong, Chris (amazingly wrong, in fact). I might add that I don't believe I've ever written about you the way you've written about me in the preceding, although that may be because you're beyond criticism. I really wish you had the strength of character to do your demolition right--by critiquing an actual sample of my criticism, the book, From Haiku to Lyriku,, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 16:58:20 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:58:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9923DF51F5E045E9B4B9C579AA0E2C59@BobHP> From: W.F. Lantry Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:23 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Chris, Well said! Came across this little gem from Cervantes the other day. Don't know why I thought of it when reading Bob's mission statement: "Modesty, tis a virtue not often found among poets, for almost every one of them thinks himself the greatest in the world." Or this one, from the same source: "From reading too much, and sleeping too little, his brain dried up on him and he lost his judgment." Thanks, Bill Good news for you, Bill: a sample of my poetry of my poetry just up at my blog at http://poeticks.com tor you to use to support your implication that were I to consider myself the greatest poet in the world, I?m not. In other words, tell us why it?s not a world-class poem. Or are you content to lurk, only sneaking out once in a while to insult a person others are already insulting so you can be sure your efforts will be appreciated? By the way, I think any poet who has never thought himself the greatest in the world definitely is not. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 17:06:39 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:06:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Message-ID: <1329429999.38331.androidMobile@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Ever ask why he might lurk?? And why he posts the quotes he does, Bob??? But now you're insulted?? Good grief. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 16 17:07:34 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:07:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the"attack"? In-Reply-To: <1329427822.55133.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1329427822.55133.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: amy king Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:30 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the"attack"? This reply is, point by point, in direct response to said motto, including the note that criticism should offend. I honestly don't see the "attack." I note that, propagandist that you are, you seldom quote what you interpret. Please quote that part of my motto that states criticism should offend. As for Chris, I think a good case could be made that when he describes what seems to be my ?lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the ?advance of poetry? means? is a libel and would be considered offensive by a person without my attitude. As would many of the things you?ve said about me, Amy. But I perceive that you and Chris share my propensity for getting carried away at times. I think Chris realizes this is so. I find it comic that you don?t and never will. --Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Lott The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2) such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 16 17:53:13 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:53:13 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329426556.91348.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> <1329426556.91348.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amy, Hi. I don't really "know" you anymore than I "know" Bob. And my posts here, thus far, have not been to "defend" anybody--I'm just making observations and you and others can do with them what you will. Yes, Bob is an "old crank." On that we can agree. Am I giving him a "pass"? Well, I guess I'd have to ask a "pass" on what? For being curmudgeonly? Maybe I am--as I noted, I'm not the best person to speak on the "bob issue" here because I've only been back on the list the past couple of months and have been largely silent, so I don't have a deep since of history, don't know what slings and arrows have been slung and arrowed. I am ONLY commenting on what I see now. What I see now is, well, Bob is acting like Bob has always acted. I am NOT defending Bob. What I AM DEFENDING is Bob's right to be Bob, that is...he says his stuff and you either like it or you don't. You engage with it or you don't. I offered, in an earlier post, that if people are really angry at Bob, then ban him from the list. That would be very easy. If we choose to keep him here, we are subject to, well, Him. And in defending Bob's right to say what he thinks, I'm defending anyone's right to say what they say. It's pretty simple. I have made clear, recently, and ten years ago, when I first encountered Bob, that I think he's pretty wrong on a lot of what he has to say. But that's fine with me. The recent post I made was prompted by, okay, I'll name names, Amy and Chris getting angry with Bob after he posted his motto. Now, again, this whole affair has history that maybe I dont' understand. His "motto" though, by itself, as a piece of text, is pretty benign. There is nothing there that I can imagine anyone finding the least bit offensive or contentious. My post was simply pointing out that there is a difference between attacking ideas and attacking a person. That's it. >From what I know of you, Amy, you're a thoughtful and respectful person. Chris, I don't know you at all really, but the sense I get is that a) you dislike Bob (so do many of us) and b) you are averse to any poetry criticism that is, well, critical. These characterizations may be dead wrong, but they are cobbled together from what I have to go on from the limited interactions that we have in this forum. I guess what I don't understand is why you guys need to jump on Bob's shit every time he posts something. Doesn't that just encourage him? If I read something on here I don't like, I delete it. It's easy. It's this democracy thing we got going. As to the notion that Bob and his shadowy cadre of men are policing this list against women...that there is a sexist conspiracy happening here---well, I don't see it. But I'm a man. To me, whenever Bob and his behavior comes up, I see a lot of people bickering. If there is a gendered element to all of this, then please let us know how this plays out. Otherwise, we're still left with, on one side, the old crank, and on the other, his detractors. Anyway, I'm not posting this (or anything) on here to ruffle any feathers. I'm just trying to understand the "Bob problem" and I suspect that there is a lot here that I don't understand because I'm not privy to a lot of history here. That's neither my bad or yours...I just haven't been around in a while. What I have seen, though, has been Bob on pretty good for Bob behavior, and people getting really angry at him. If I were a Bob detractor, I'd at least wait until he did something really offensive or stupid before I jumped. Tony On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:09 PM, amy king wrote: > Tony, > > While yours sounds quite reasonable and well-intentioned, it also echoes > privilege in the form of "boys will be boys" via the "old crank" should be > forgiven for saying offensive things and forgotten at every turn. He's > just a cranky old dude, after all. But. I cannot read the "Bob" I know > from New Poetry as a newborn entity with each post anymore than I can walk > into a room and greet the demanding narcissist who drops racist bombs with > fresh eyes and open arms. > > As I've noted in the past, only to have met with much resistance, a few > folks' 'behavior' here has created an unwelcoming or, at the very least, > unsupportive posting climate for women, and likely others I don't know of > (Go on, take me task - I'm saying this bc it makes me so popular and wins > me friends & female posters are plentiful and long-standing members). I > count Bob's insistence and "curmudgeonly" manner / responses among those > few. So I will not divorce what I see as Bob's patterns and his agenda > (yes, everyone has one), from the way I reply to Bob anymore than I will > hug the narcissist when he asks for more attention. > > As you note, we all have the right to speak; I don't see why I am (or > anyone) supposed to be selective and forgetful of the Bob I've come to know > when I reply. If my disdain comes through, I would point out that mine is > focused on who I see as the culprit and specifically addresses what he > posts, while Bob's echoes throughout the list, for some time now, and > affects a good number of people with his sweeping dismissals, nasty > characterizations, etc. Why is the "curmudgeon" excused such expression, > but I am to be policed? "Let's let him say it" applies across the board. > > Further, where is the "attack?" Chris has offered point-by-point critical > response. And I addressed specifics in "Bob's" "motto," esp his continuous > use of "I" represents his undying push to dominate New Poetry discussions > with his agenda as well as his preemptive qualifier to insult and dismiss > anyone who may challenge his murky "criticism" (or is it critical pall?) > (oh the hypersensitives!). I'm supposed to forget who I'm addressing and > ignore any "cranky old dude" hints to boot? As noted, I have every right > to reply, as does anyone else who posts, and I addressed his motto post > directly. > > **And seriously, this reductive characterization that any response now > will be akin to "But he started it" is one way of dismissing any problem > anyone has with the "curmudgeon" as child's play, as though no one could > actually have a meritorious issue / problem with Bob's postings / > posturings. > > This preemptive dismissal reminds me of when I ask why women don't post in > this combative atmosphere more often. Oh I know, I'm just being one of > those simple-thinking feminists - everyone likes women on New Poetry and > responds so nicely, historically, to what they post. So what the heck am I > talking about - he's just an "old crank"! Forget what any of the few women > who were willing to speak up said; there's no merit in my claims or their > words - we're imagining things. Long live the cuddly crank of a curmudgeon > and anything he says to advance his agenda (bc we've all got one) - let's > forget and forgive dudes who affect the rooms they occupy in favor of cute > nicknames that cloud over repeat behaviors that fill the room with "brave" > farts. > > Pardon my quickie metaphor, > > Amy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anthony Robinson > > I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, > thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at > -- the internet, I suppose. > > 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many > years. I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then. I don't > know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent. > > 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately > call "an old crank." He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda. > Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no > problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned. > Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I > applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. > > 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in > his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric > terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the > unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or > kick him out. > > 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or > Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say > it. > > 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the > basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and > Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past. Not really helpful or > advancing any discussion. Case: Bob's recent "motto" of poetry > criticism. NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive > by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman. Some folks are > attacking the man, not what he says. Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does > that! Bob started it!" Very well. That doesn't mean we have to continue > it. > > That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry > or a poem to criticize. I will, of course, link my efforts here. > > Best, > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Feb 16 17:52:53 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:52:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the"attack"? Message-ID: <1329432773.73243.androidMobile@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Your characterizations and categories for poetry are extremely limited, restrictive and reductive as posted on this listserv, often without example (or as hasty g's). I'll waste time locating excerpts later. But Wilshbooblia, and all that you've posted here in abundant effort to define / defend it, stands out. That is not libel. In terms of the slander you write about various people, the archives here offer abundant evidence, not to mention your racist parodies. So since when are you aware of libel? Oh right, when it's about Bob. Regarding what "Chris realizes" and I don't, this is obviously the part where you try to compliment and align yourself with Chris now and place me on the lowest rung of your hierarchy as 'comicaly' unaware. Yawn. How unsuprising and typical. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the"attack"? Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:07:34 PM ? ? From: amy king Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:30 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic - Where is the"attack"? ? This reply is, point by point, in direct response to said motto, including the note that criticism should offend.?? I honestly don't see the "attack."?? ? I note that, propagandist that you are, you seldom quote what you interpret.? Please quote that part of my motto that states criticism should offend.? ? As for Chris, I think a good case could be made that when he describes what seems to be my ?lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the ?advance of poetry? means? is a libel and would be considered offensive by a person without my attitude.? As would many of the things you?ve said about me, Amy.? But I perceive that you and Chris share my propensity for getting carried away at times.? I think Chris realizes this is so.? I find it comic that you don?t and never will. ? --Bob From: Chris Lott The offensiveness--a non-productive offensiveness I might add, since contrary to Bob's belief, those of us who object to his drive-by shootings to understand that criticism can be hard and productive--comes in two flavors: 1) we know what Bob means, from his copious examples on this list, by "committed to the advance of poetry," which really means "committed to the advance of Bob's agenda," and 2)? such a formulation leaves no room for a variety of things poetry does for, I'd bet, most readers, but at least a healthy part of them. Criticism can be many things without being offensive, though such offense is a different thing if honestly a part of assessment rather than agenda. The mere presence of offensiveness, which you seem to think necessary in criticism (what is criticism if it doesn't offend?), seems a rather shallow approach given that criticism can come in many modes, not least of which is illumination. What is criticism without giving offense? Who knows? In the absence of example it could be utter shit or it could be something really useful to a reader or it could light up something dark or it could make a convincing case about problems, etc. But Bob and the Bob(Ap)Ologists take the predictable routes of 1) casting the debate as a zero-sum game, and 2) creating straw-men of the other side and its arguments, such as those objecting to Bob's jingoistic propaganda must think criticism has to be all sweetness and light. The lack of any appreciation of nuance or that there might be diverse opinions about what the "advance of poetry" means is offensive. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 16 20:07:44 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:07:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] blurbs Message-ID: <8CEBB27B09A9CED-2B70-D681@webmail-d182.sysops.aol.com> Greet You in the Middle of a Great Career: A Brief History of Blurbs http://www.themillions.com/2012/02/i-greet-you-in-the-middle-of-a-great-career-a-brief-history-of-blurbs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 07:56:38 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:56:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: <4F3D44B2.1070405@louisiana.edu> References: <4F3D44B2.1070405@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Congratulations, Skip, well deserved! I can always host on the Poets' Corner any reviews people can write, thus if someone writes a review of your book, just send it over and I will upload it ASAP. See also Galatea Resurrects, Editor Eileen Tabios: http://galatearesurrects.blogspot.com/ a great resource. Till soon, Anny On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > ** > I can't believe _you'd_ have to ask me about places that review > university- and small-press publications, Skip. You know a lot more about > that than I do. _Rain Taxi_, of course, and _Verse_, which publishes loads > of reviews on-line as well as in print. I'm going to contact Brian Clements > (who used to edit Sentence and now runs Firewheel publications) about good > possibilities. I also wouldn't shy away (if I were you) from having > acquaintances review the book or pass it on to someone else for review. > Just get a firm commitment, so you don't wind up giving away too many > copies. And of course, there's always Nate Pritts, though I assume you'll > have to go through his agent. > > Jerry > > On 2/16/2012 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this > spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has asked me > to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews and then send > the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have contacts, but I have > have only a few. > > Questions: > > Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine contact > their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be interested in > considering" X for review? > > Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to reviewing > experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are some formal poems > in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know about Selby's list, but > it's often hard to figure out how to contact the press beyond donations or > submissions. > > Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of > thinking about this? Etc. > > Skip Fox > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > ________________________________________________________ > > Jerry McGuire > English Department Box 44691 > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70504-4691337-482-5478 > Creative Writing Website:http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html > ______________________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 10:20:49 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 07:20:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329492049.32102.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what?he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 12:02 PM One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.?? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 10:42:48 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:42:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329492049.32102.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329492049.32102.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9911DF32608B46D08DC6C5BDE1305F56@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:20 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. Right, except to the orthodox for whom any challenge is an offense, a morally indefensible offense. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. A few of the better (visible) ones like Vendler actually try to show how they understand (and appreciate) the poets they write about, but?my disgusting agenda causes me to repeat?they never write about any poets doing anything significantly new, so are close to useless. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 10:46:51 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 07:46:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: My Motto as a Poetry Critic Message-ID: <1329493611.54149.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> What I AM DEFENDING is Bob's right to be Bob ? I couldn't agree more. I'm not invested in any of these arguments. When I wrote the word offend and later (after reading a post from Chris Lott) realized that it was a?poorly chosen word, I said so. I simply didn't Have to be Right. What I do appreciate about Bob (whether I agree or don't agree with him) is the clarity of his opinions. It seems to me that he's not only spent a good deal of time and energy defining his aesthetic, he's had to defend it as well. & so the fireworks ... and needless rancor. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Anthony Robinson wrote: From: Anthony Robinson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 5:53 PM Amy, Hi.? I don't really "know" you anymore than I "know" Bob.? And my posts here, thus far, have not been to "defend" anybody--I'm just making observations and you and others can do with them what you will. Yes, Bob is an "old crank."? On that we can agree.? Am I giving him a "pass"??? Well, I guess I'd have to ask a "pass" on what? For being curmudgeonly?? Maybe I am--as I noted, I'm not the best person to speak on the "bob issue" here because I've only been back on the list the past couple of months and have been largely silent, so I don't have a deep since of history, don't know what slings and arrows have been slung and arrowed.? I am ONLY commenting on what I see now.?? What I see now is, well, Bob is acting like Bob has always acted.? I am NOT defending Bob. What I AM DEFENDING is Bob's right to be Bob, that is...he says his stuff and you either like it or you don't. You engage with it or you don't.? I offered, in an earlier post, that if people are really angry at Bob, then ban him from the list.? That would be very easy. If we choose to keep him here, we are subject to, well, Him. And in defending Bob's right to say what he thinks, I'm defending anyone's right to say what they say.?? It's pretty simple. I have made clear, recently, and ten years ago, when I first encountered Bob, that I think he's pretty wrong on a lot of what he has to say.? But that's fine with me. The recent post I made was prompted by, okay, I'll name names, Amy and Chris getting angry with Bob after he posted his motto.? Now, again, this whole affair has history that maybe I dont' understand.? His "motto" though, by itself, as a piece of text, is pretty benign.? There is nothing there that I can imagine anyone finding the least bit offensive or contentious. My post was simply pointing out that there is a difference between attacking ideas and attacking a person.?? That's it.? >From what I know of you, Amy, you're a thoughtful and respectful person.? Chris, I don't know you at all really, but the sense I get is that a) you dislike Bob (so do many of us) and b) you are averse to any poetry criticism that is, well, critical.??? These characterizations may be dead wrong, but they are cobbled together from what I have to go on from the limited interactions that we have in this forum.?????? I guess what I don't understand is why you guys need to jump on Bob's shit every time he posts something.? Doesn't that just encourage him? If I read something on here I don't like, I delete it. It's easy. It's this democracy thing we got going.? As to the notion that Bob and his shadowy cadre of men are policing this list against women...that there is a sexist conspiracy happening here---well, I don't see it.? But I'm a man.?? To me, whenever Bob and his behavior comes up, I see a lot of people bickering.?? If there is a gendered element to all of this, then please let us know how this plays out.?? Otherwise, we're still left with, on one side, the old crank, and on the other, his detractors. Anyway, I'm not posting this (or anything) on here to ruffle any feathers. I'm just trying to understand the "Bob problem" and I suspect that there is a lot here that I don't understand because I'm not privy to a lot of history here.? That's neither my bad or yours...I just haven't been around in a while.? What I have seen, though, has been Bob on pretty good for Bob behavior, and people getting really angry at him.?? If I were a Bob detractor, I'd at least wait until he did something really offensive or stupid before I jumped. Tony On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:09 PM, amy king wrote: Tony, While yours sounds quite reasonable and well-intentioned, it also echoes privilege in the form of "boys will be boys" via the "old crank" should be forgiven for saying offensive things and forgotten at every turn.? He's just a cranky old dude, after all.? But.? I cannot read the "Bob" I know from New Poetry as a newborn entity with each post anymore than I can walk into a room and greet the demanding narcissist who drops racist bombs with fresh eyes and open arms.?? As I've noted in the past, only to have met with much resistance, a few folks' 'behavior' here has created an unwelcoming or, at the very least, unsupportive posting climate for women, and likely others I don't know of (Go on, take me task - I'm saying this bc it makes me so popular and wins me friends & female posters are plentiful and long-standing members).? I count Bob's insistence and "curmudgeonly" manner / responses among those few.? So I will not divorce what I see as Bob's patterns and his agenda (yes, everyone has one), from the way I reply to Bob anymore than I will hug the narcissist when he asks for more attention.? As you note, we all have the right to speak; I don't see why I am (or anyone) supposed to be selective and forgetful of the Bob I've come to know when I reply.? If my disdain comes through, I would point out that mine is focused on who I see as the culprit and specifically addresses what he posts, while Bob's echoes throughout the list, for some time now, and affects a good number of people with his sweeping dismissals, nasty characterizations, etc.? Why is the "curmudgeon" excused such expression, but I am to be policed?? "Let's let him say it" applies across the board. Further, where is the "attack?"? Chris has offered point-by-point critical response.? And I addressed specifics in "Bob's" "motto," esp his continuous use of "I" represents his undying push to dominate New Poetry discussions with his agenda as well as his preemptive qualifier to insult and dismiss anyone who may challenge his murky "criticism" (or is it critical pall?) (oh the hypersensitives!).? I'm supposed to forget who I'm addressing and ignore any "cranky old dude" hints to boot?? As noted, I have every right to reply, as does anyone else who posts, and I addressed his motto post directly.?? **And seriously, this reductive characterization that any response now will be akin to "But he started it" is one way of dismissing any problem anyone has with the "curmudgeon" as child's play, as though no one could actually have a meritorious issue / problem with Bob's postings / posturings.?? This preemptive dismissal reminds me of when I ask why women don't post in this combative atmosphere more often.? Oh I know, I'm just being one of those simple-thinking feminists - everyone likes women on New Poetry and responds so nicely, historically, to what they post.? So what the heck am I talking about - he's just an "old crank"!? Forget what any of the few women who were willing to speak up said; there's no merit in my claims or their words - we're imagining things.? Long live the cuddly crank of a curmudgeon and anything he says to advance his agenda (bc we've all got one) - let's forget and forgive dudes who affect the rooms they occupy in favor of cute nicknames that cloud over repeat behaviors that fill the room with "brave" farts.? Pardon my quickie metaphor, Amy From: Anthony Robinson I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at -- the internet, I suppose. 1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many years.? I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then.? I don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent.? 2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately call "an old crank."? He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda.? Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned.?? Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. 3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or kick him out. 4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say it. 5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past.?? Not really helpful or advancing any discussion.?? Case:? Bob's recent "motto" of poetry criticism.? NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman.?? Some folks are attacking the man, not what he says.?? Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does that!? Bob started it!"?? Very well.? That doesn't mean we have to continue it. That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry or a poem to criticize.? I will, of course, link my efforts here. Best, Tony _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 10:53:09 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 07:53:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <9911DF32608B46D08DC6C5BDE1305F56@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329493989.11274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> They do ignore vast areas of significant poetry. If one knew nothing besides the work?Vendler, Bloom, or Gioia offer to the reading public, a good deal of exciting, innovative?work would be completely ignored. In fact, it would be as though nothing new had happened since ... since ... the late sixties, perhaps. Which is sad. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 10:42 AM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:20 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic ? I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. ? Right, except to the orthodox for whom any challenge is an offense, a morally indefensible offense. ? My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. ? A few of the better (visible) ones like Vendler actually try to show how they understand (and appreciate) the poets they write about, but?my disgusting agenda causes me to repeat?they never write about any poets doing anything significantly new, so are close to useless. ? --Bob? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 11:18:53 2012 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:18:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: <4F3D44B2.1070405@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Anny. To that end, if anyone on this list is willing to consider reviewing my selected poems (204 pgs.) for Poet's Corner please contact me with mailing address. Here's the web page from UNO Press's Coming Soon section though some of the info is inaccurate (e.g, dimesions are 10" X 10"): http://www.unopress.org/content2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=180:sheer-indefinite-selected-poems-1991-2011&catid=106&Itemid=466 you can write directly to me at: skip at louisiana.edu skip fox On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Congratulations, Skip, well deserved! > I can always host on the Poets' Corner any reviews people can write, thus > if someone writes a review of your book, just send it over and I will > upload it ASAP. > See also Galatea Resurrects, Editor Eileen Tabios: > http://galatearesurrects.blogspot.com/ > a great resource. > > Till soon, Anny > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> ** >> I can't believe _you'd_ have to ask me about places that review >> university- and small-press publications, Skip. You know a lot more about >> that than I do. _Rain Taxi_, of course, and _Verse_, which publishes loads >> of reviews on-line as well as in print. I'm going to contact Brian Clements >> (who used to edit Sentence and now runs Firewheel publications) about good >> possibilities. I also wouldn't shy away (if I were you) from having >> acquaintances review the book or pass it on to someone else for review. >> Just get a firm commitment, so you don't wind up giving away too many >> copies. And of course, there's always Nate Pritts, though I assume you'll >> have to go through his agent. >> >> Jerry >> >> On 2/16/2012 11:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> >> University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this >> spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has asked me >> to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews and then send >> the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have contacts, but I have >> have only a few. >> >> Questions: >> >> Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine contact >> their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be interested in >> considering" X for review? >> >> Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to reviewing >> experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are some formal poems >> in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know about Selby's list, but >> it's often hard to figure out how to contact the press beyond donations or >> submissions. >> >> Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of >> thinking about this? Etc. >> >> Skip Fox >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> -- >> ________________________________________________________ >> >> Jerry McGuire >> English Department Box 44691 >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> Lafayette LA 70504-4691337-482-5478 >> Creative Writing Website:http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html >> ______________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 12:04:28 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:04:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329493989.11274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329493989.11274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30090DEDE1454B69AEC3D681E79E2B1D@BobHP> They do ignore vast areas of significant poetry. If one knew nothing besides the work Vendler, Bloom, or Gioia offer to the reading public, a good deal of exciting, innovative work would be completely ignored. In fact, it would be as though nothing new had happened since ... since ... the late sixties, perhaps. Which is sad. I think maybe as many as five others who regularly visit New-Poetry would agree with us on that, Stephen. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri Feb 17 12:25:56 2012 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:25:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: <59688B21531F4A8D9CD3634CBE3BBA8C@BobHP> References: <59688B21531F4A8D9CD3634CBE3BBA8C@BobHP> Message-ID: <8CEBBB058007FF9-E14-314B1@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> I second the congrats and good news! Here's a "strategy" I follow: 1) I ask around to see if people I know review books and/or could recommend a reviewer 2) I send queries to journals where I enjoy reading the reviews they publish 3) I send queries to journals that have published my work AND which feature book reviews 4) I ask the publisher for a list of places that have reviewed books by their press (in the past) 5) I look online for potential markets 6) Along the way, I build a list of people who regularly review books 7) I take a few chances and send queries or review copies to reviewers I respect (but do not know) From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:33 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? Good news on the book, Skip--and, yes, you should be sending me material for On Barcelona. Spit-spot. And, gracias in advance. Yes, very good news. Not sure I can be of much help, but I know lots of poets have copies of their books sent to Small Press Review and some of them get sent to me for review. But I?ve had people send SPR books suggesting I might want to review them that were never sent to me. And I?ve sent some of my own books in for review without their being reviewed! What happens, I?m fairly sure, is that batches of books are sent to various reviewers who elect not to review certain of them, and that?s it, they?re not passed on. I have done that?not wanting to but not finding the time to do all the reviews requested. I?ve also written reviews that never appeared?just too many books and not enough pages?although there?s no zero-sum game involved. The other venue I have done reviews for is the online magazine Pedestal; you might try it, but it?s what I call you-know-what. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 12:56:47 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:56:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329492049.32102.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> <1329492049.32102.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Write in haste, repent at leisure. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A > good critic should *challenge* orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely > one who displays poor manners. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read > more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what he > says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more > than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that > reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various > poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to > taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are > heard while others are ignored. > > --- On *Thu, 2/16/12, bob grumman * wrote: > > > From: bob grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 12:02 PM > > One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a > critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone > who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 14:41:07 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:41:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329507667.91120.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... the wrong wrong? ... must have meant the wrong word. yes, write in hase, repent at leisure. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 12:56 PM Write in haste, repent at leisure. ?? ? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above)Truck:?https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.orghttps://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II),?Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III),?Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems,?Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets;?Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan;?Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM, stephen russell wrote: I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what?he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 12:02 PM One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.?? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Fri Feb 17 14:48:54 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 19:48:54 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Congrats On The New Book, Skip Message-ID: Just wanted to congratulate Skip on his new selected and to mention that ahadada books has available Delta Blues--Skip at his best--and yet another title. Check the listing on SPD. Kudos. Orlando Jess From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 15:13:52 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:13:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner Message-ID: <1329509632.12520.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> not for the linguistically challenged: www.nga.gov/exhibitions/bochnertowerinfo.shtm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 15:14:49 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:14:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329507667.91120.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> correction: haste ... hopeless ... --- On Fri, 2/17/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 2:41 PM ... the wrong wrong? ... must have meant the wrong word. yes, write in hase, repent at leisure. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 12:56 PM Write in haste, repent at leisure. ?? ? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above)Truck:?https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.orghttps://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II),?Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III),?Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems,?Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets;?Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan;?Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM, stephen russell wrote: I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what?he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 12:02 PM One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.?? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 16:16:56 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No, no??hase? is correct (as a pun for ?haze.?) Anyway, my motto as a Maker of Mistakes is ?Write in haste, correct at leisure.? Because everyone who knows you will know what you meant, and those who attack you for what you didn?t mean would have claimed that?s what you meant, anyway. --Bob From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic correction: haste ... hopeless ... --- On Fri, 2/17/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 2:41 PM ... the wrong wrong? ... must have meant the wrong word. yes, write in hase, repent at leisure. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 12:56 PM Write in haste, repent at leisure. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II), Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III), Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:20 AM, stephen russell wrote: I originally wrote offensive in haste, but thought it the wrong wrong. A good critic should challenge orthodoxy. A offensive critic is merely one who displays poor manners. My problem with Gioia (now that I've read more of him) is that he fails to challenge. He writes well, but what he says has already been said by many others. Much criticism seems little more than a reaffirmation of taste. Harold Bloom, for instance: (that reactionary). When he praises a poet, he'll provide examples from various poems, make a brief comment, and let the work stand. It boils down to taste. Nothing more. & because Bloom has clout (power), his opinions are heard while others are ignored. --- On Thu, 2/16/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 12:02 PM One reason for over-emphasizing the value of being offensive as a critic is that?at least in my experience?it?s incredibly hard to get anyone who doesn?t like one?s work to say more than ?it doesn?t work for me.? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 16:30:04 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:30:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: <1329509632.12520.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329509632.12520.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2DF708C88C604C7D9F94A66C19BA4B38@BobHP> not for the linguistically challenged: www.nga.gov/exhibitions/bochnertowerinfo.shtm You sure? The one example didn?t seem too advanced linguistically?or aesthetically. I don?t know the guy?s work, and am a jealous competitior, but it looks to me from the one specimen?if that?s indeed a specimen and not just a ad for the show?like he?s just another Holzer. It does show that explorations of ?the intersections of linguistic and visual representation? can gain National Gallery legitimacy?if you call yourself a painter. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 16:34:46 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:34:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: <1329509632.12520.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329509632.12520.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D8640C28FD74C73AE7F4B3C217FF439@BobHP> I remember that I have seen his work. It?s better than Holzer?s but not anywhere near as good as John M. Bennett?s, Scott Helmes?s, David Chirot?s, Jim Leftwich?s, K. S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s, and a whole bunch of other living visual poets. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 16:59:17 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:59:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: <2D8640C28FD74C73AE7F4B3C217FF439@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329515957.68318.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I wasn't impressed with the paintings, but some of the charcoal pieces were witty, especially his self-portrait. But I'll defer to your assessment. I'm simply not qualified to compare Bochner's work to the list you recommend. Still, Bochner somehow got into the National Gallery (not easy for a living artist). The National Gallery usually doesn't gamble on the living. They want the dead. At least 2 decades of death. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 4:34 PM I remember that I have seen his work.? It?s better than Holzer?s but not anywhere near as good as John M. Bennett?s, Scott Helmes?s, David Chirot?s, Jim Leftwich?s, K. S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s, and a whole bunch of other living visual poets. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 17:12:33 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:12:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner Message-ID: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> having said that, you've provided a list of names I can research ... Chirot I'm familiar with, and because of some previous comments from you, I've seen some of Scott Helmes's work. As well as Geoff Huth. But ( K. S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s) these names ... they're new to me. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 4:59 PM I wasn't impressed with the paintings, but some of the charcoal pieces were witty, especially his self-portrait. But I'll defer to your assessment. I'm simply not qualified to compare Bochner's work to the list you recommend. Still, Bochner somehow got into the National Gallery (not easy for a living artist). The National Gallery usually doesn't gamble on the living. They want the dead. At least 2 decades of death. --- On Fri, 2/17/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 4:34 PM I remember that I have seen his work.? It?s better than Holzer?s but not anywhere near as good as John M. Bennett?s, Scott Helmes?s, David Chirot?s, Jim Leftwich?s, K. S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s, and a whole bunch of other living visual poets. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 17 17:55:32 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:55:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chirot I'm familiar with, and because of some previous comments from you, I've seen some of Scott Helmes's work. As well as Geoff Huth. But ( K. S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s) these names ... they're new to me. Anny has stuff by Koppany, I?m pretty sure. I could give you a lot more names?but I fear researching them will be difficult. But let us know what you find out. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 18:02:39 2012 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:02:39 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Congrats On The New Book, Skip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Jess. _At That_, beautifully published by Ahadada, is also easy to obtain. On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:48 PM, wrote: > Just wanted to congratulate Skip on his new selected and to mention that > ahadada books has available Delta Blues--Skip at his best--and yet > another title. Check the listing on SPD. Kudos. Orlando Jess > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 20:48:07 2012 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:48:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sources for reviews??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great news, Skip. Sorry to say I'm not connected enough these days to be of any help, but what I've read of responses so far seems to be up-to-date. - Jim On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > University of New Orleans Press is publishing my selected poems this > spring (to be released in a few weeks). The marketing director has asked me > to contact little magazines and other vehicles for reviews and then send > the press a list of addresses &c. She assumes I have contacts, but I have > have only a few. > > Questions: > > Should I proceed as above: without knowing anyone at the magazine contact > their book review editor and ask if their journal "would be interested in > considering" X for review? > > Where does one find a good list of magazines especially open to reviewing > experimental or non-traditional poetry (though there are some formal poems > in there as well as well as prose poetry)? I know about Selby's list, but > it's often hard to figure out how to contact the press beyond donations or > submissions. > > Other advice? Anything else I should be doing? Or different ways of > thinking about this? Etc. > > Skip Fox > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Fri Feb 17 21:18:20 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:18:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The 2012 lineup for the?20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's?Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced. ?It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob. ?In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading! ?(And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) ? ? ?--?John J ?- June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur ?- June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. ?- June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia ?- June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine ?- July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway ?- July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall ?- August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 03:20:28 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:20:28 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] press53 Message-ID: http://press53.tumblr.com/# -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 03:56:01 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:56:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stan Kenton Message-ID: http://www.npr.org/blogs/ablogsupreme/2012/02/17/147040413/stan-kenton-at-100-artistry-in-rhythm 100 years old! -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 05:58:41 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 05:58:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78572EA5B8114D6EB012028AC01D5D52@BobHP> Yikes, it?s the cream of Wilshberia?the least innovative precinct, that is. But with so few slots available, there?s no reason to have anyone faintly able to befuddle anyone. --Bob From: John Jeffrey Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced. It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob. In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading! (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) -- John J - June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur - June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. - June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia - June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine - July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway - July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall - August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 06:52:32 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 06:52:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1442B4FB95114436AE64342351D442A2@BobHP> John, if you don?t mind my being uncharacteristically inoffensive (I think, but I?m clueless), let me suggest that the people arranging this, or a similar event, set aside a wall somewhere for visual poems. That shouldn?t bother Wilshberians too much, and it might actually do some good for a few poets who might actually deserve the exposure. --Bob From: John Jeffrey Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced. It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob. In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading! (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) -- John J - June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur - June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. - June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia - June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine - July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway - July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall - August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 10:11:00 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:11:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT Message-ID: <1329577860.8819.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Note all the awards ... read ... wail/weep ... Introducing Robert Penn Warren: Mr. Warren was awarded three Pulitzer Prizes and is, thus far (thusly), the only writer to have been awarded the Pulitzer for both fiction and poetry. ? HONORS *AWARDS * PRIZES 1928-30 Rhodes Scholar, Oxford University 1936 Helen Haire Levinson Prize for Poetry; Caroline Sinkler Prize for Poetry of South Carolina 1937 Caroline Sinkler Prize 1938 Caroline Sinkler Prize 1942 Poet of the Month Award for Eleven Poems On the Same Theme 1943 Shelly Memorial Award 1944 1944-45 Second Occupant of the Chair of Poetry at Library of Congress 1947 Pulitzer Prize for All the King's Men; Southern Author's Award (Southern Women's National Democratic Organization) 1949 Robert Meltzer Award of the Screen Writers' Guild for All the King's Men; Honorary D.Litt. from the University of Louisville 1950 Membership in the National Institute of Arts and Letters; Chancellor, American Academy of Poets; Distinguished Alumnus Award, from Vanderbilt University 1952 Honorary D.Litt. from Kenyon College; Elected to The American Philosophical Society 1956 Honorary D.Litt. from Colby College 1957 Sidney Hillman Award for Journalism; Edna St. Vincent Millay Prize of the American Poetry Society; Honorary D.Litt. from University of Kentucky 1958 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry for Promises: Poems, 1954-1956; National Book Award for Promises: Poems, 1954-1956; Membership in The Century Association 1959 Selected for membership in the American Academy of Arts and Letters; Honorary D.Litt. from Swarthmore College 1960 Honorary D.Litt. from Yale University 1965 Irita Van Doren Award; Honorary LLD from University of Bridgeport 1967 Bolligen Prize in Poetry; 1967-68 Member, English Committee of the Board of Overseers of Harvard College 1968 National Arts Foundation Award 1969 Honorary D. Litt. from Fairfield University 1970 National Medal of Literature; Van Wyck Brooks Award; Henry A. Bellaman Prize, all for Audubon: A Vision; Honorary D.Litt. from Wesleyn University 1972 Fall. Ten Best Teachers Award, Yale; Chancellor, American Academy of Poets 1973 University of South Carolina Award for Distinction in Literature; Honorary D.Litt. from Harvard University and from New Haven University 1974 Delivers Third Annual Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities (NEH); Honorary D.Litt. from University of the South, from Southwestern College, and from University of Meridian(TN); Honorary Fellow, MLA 1975 Elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences; Emerson-Thoreau Award from AAAS 1976 Copernicus Award for Or Else---Poem/Poems, 1968-1974 from the Academy of American Poets; Borestone Mountain Poetry Award 1977 Harriet Monroe Prize for Poetry; Wilma and Roswell Messing, Jr., Award from Associates of St. Louis University Libraries; Honorary D.Litt. from Johns Hopkins University 1978 Honorary D.Humane Letters from Berea College (KY) 1979 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry for Now and Then: Poems, 1976-1978 1980 Presidential Medal of Freedom 1981 Receives MacArthur Prize Fellowship 1984 Creative Arts Award, Brandeis University 1985 American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters Gold Medal for Poetry 1986 Appointed Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress (First Poet Laureate of the United States) 1987 National Medal of Arts --- On Sat, 2/18/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 5:58 AM Yikes, it?s the cream of Wilshberia?the least innovative precinct, that is.?? But with so few slots available, there?s no reason to have anyone faintly able to befuddle anyone. ? --Bob ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT ? The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced.? It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob.? In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading!? (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) ???? -- John J - June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur - June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. - June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia - June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine - July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway - July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall - August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 10:15:24 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:15:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: <1329577860.8819.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329578124.43749.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & this too -- Honorary D.Litt. from the University of Louisville -- (Warren wasn't exactly a college drop- out) i'd settle for a dishonorable degree or a bench warming spot on the basketball team --- On Sat, 2/18/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:11 AM Note all the awards ... read ... wail/weep ... Introducing Robert Penn Warren: Mr. Warren was awarded three Pulitzer Prizes and is, thus far (thusly), the only writer to have been awarded the Pulitzer for both fiction and poetry. ? HONORS *AWARDS * PRIZES 1928-30 Rhodes Scholar, Oxford University 1936 Helen Haire Levinson Prize for Poetry; Caroline Sinkler Prize for Poetry of South Carolina 1937 Caroline Sinkler Prize 1938 Caroline Sinkler Prize 1942 Poet of the Month Award for Eleven Poems On the Same Theme 1943 Shelly Memorial Award 1944 1944-45 Second Occupant of the Chair of Poetry at Library of Congress 1947 Pulitzer Prize for All the King's Men; Southern Author's Award (Southern Women's National Democratic Organization) 1949 Robert Meltzer Award of the Screen Writers' Guild for All the King's Men; Honorary D.Litt. from the University of Louisville 1950 Membership in the National Institute of Arts and Letters; Chancellor, American Academy of Poets; Distinguished Alumnus Award, from Vanderbilt University 1952 Honorary D.Litt. from Kenyon College; Elected to The American Philosophical Society 1956 Honorary D.Litt. from Colby College 1957 Sidney Hillman Award for Journalism; Edna St. Vincent Millay Prize of the American Poetry Society; Honorary D.Litt. from University of Kentucky 1958 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry for Promises: Poems, 1954-1956; National Book Award for Promises: Poems, 1954-1956; Membership in The Century Association 1959 Selected for membership in the American Academy of Arts and Letters; Honorary D.Litt. from Swarthmore College 1960 Honorary D.Litt. from Yale University 1965 Irita Van Doren Award; Honorary LLD from University of Bridgeport 1967 Bolligen Prize in Poetry; 1967-68 Member, English Committee of the Board of Overseers of Harvard College 1968 National Arts Foundation Award 1969 Honorary D. Litt. from Fairfield University 1970 National Medal of Literature; Van Wyck Brooks Award; Henry A. Bellaman Prize, all for Audubon: A Vision; Honorary D.Litt. from Wesleyn University 1972 Fall. Ten Best Teachers Award, Yale; Chancellor, American Academy of Poets 1973 University of South Carolina Award for Distinction in Literature; Honorary D.Litt. from Harvard University and from New Haven University 1974 Delivers Third Annual Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities (NEH); Honorary D.Litt. from University of the South, from Southwestern College, and from University of Meridian(TN); Honorary Fellow, MLA 1975 Elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences; Emerson-Thoreau Award from AAAS 1976 Copernicus Award for Or Else---Poem/Poems, 1968-1974 from the Academy of American Poets; Borestone Mountain Poetry Award 1977 Harriet Monroe Prize for Poetry; Wilma and Roswell Messing, Jr., Award from Associates of St. Louis University Libraries; Honorary D.Litt. from Johns Hopkins University 1978 Honorary D.Humane Letters from Berea College (KY) 1979 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry for Now and Then: Poems, 1976-1978 1980 Presidential Medal of Freedom 1981 Receives MacArthur Prize Fellowship 1984 Creative Arts Award, Brandeis University 1985 American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters Gold Medal for Poetry 1986 Appointed Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress (First Poet Laureate of the United States) 1987 National Medal of Arts --- On Sat, 2/18/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 5:58 AM Yikes, it?s the cream of Wilshberia?the least innovative precinct, that is.?? But with so few slots available, there?s no reason to have anyone faintly able to befuddle anyone. ? --Bob ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT ? The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced.? It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob.? In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading!? (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) ???? -- John J - June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur - June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. - June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia - June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine - July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway - July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall - August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 10:53:21 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:53:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: <1442B4FB95114436AE64342351D442A2@BobHP> References: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1442B4FB95114436AE64342351D442A2@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329580401.59844.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That sounds like a great idea, but alas I have no sway over the folks at Sunken Garden.? How about I go to some of the readings and leave visual poem flyers on the cars in the parking lot? In fact, that sounds like a way to get visual poems out to the masses:? Blanket the windshields in Walmart parking lots with flyers of visual poems.? Couldn't be any worse than those I always get for a new hair salon or a car wash, unless-- Wait!? Maybe those ARE visual poems!? Have you ever written a visual poem about a place called "Bobbie's Cut n Curl" with a visual of a woman with a mop on her head? --John J >________________________________ > From: bob grumman >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:52 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT > > >John, if you don?t mind my being uncharacteristically inoffensive (I think, but I?m clueless), let me suggest that the people arranging this, or a similar event, set aside a wall somewhere for visual poems.? That shouldn?t bother Wilshberians too much, and it might actually do some good for a few poets who might actually deserve the exposure. >? >--Bob? >From: John Jeffrey >Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT >? The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced.? It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob.? In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading!? (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) > >???? -- John J > > >- June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur >- June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. >- June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia >- June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine >- July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway >- July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall >- August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards > > >------------------------------------------------ > > > >________________________________ > _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 11:00:55 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:00:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT In-Reply-To: <1329580401.59844.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329580855.7887.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Have you ever written a visual poem about a place called "Bobbie's Cut n Curl" with a visual of a woman with a mop on her head? Write one ... please ... --- On Sat, 2/18/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:53 AM That sounds like a great idea, but alas I have no sway over the folks at Sunken Garden.? How about I go to some of the readings and leave visual poem flyers on the cars in the parking lot? In fact, that sounds like a way to get visual poems out to the masses:? Blanket the windshields in Walmart parking lots with flyers of visual poems.? Couldn't be any worse than those I always get for a new hair salon or a car wash, unless-- Wait!? Maybe those ARE visual poems!? Have you ever written a visual poem about a place called "Bobbie's Cut n Curl" with a visual of a woman with a mop on her head? --John J From: bob grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT John, if you don?t mind my being uncharacteristically inoffensive (I think, but I?m clueless), let me suggest that the people arranging this, or a similar event, set aside a wall somewhere for visual poems.? That shouldn?t bother Wilshberians too much, and it might actually do some good for a few poets who might actually deserve the exposure. ? --Bob ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:18 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT ? The 2012 lineup for the 20th Anniversary Season of Connecticut's Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has been announced.? It's loaded with Wilshberian poets, just for Bob.? In fact, one of the town's founding fathers is reading!? (And the other founding father, Ashbery, read a few weeks ago in Hartford.) ???? -- John J - June 2: Former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize winner, Richard Wilbur - June 3: Ten for Ten, a reading by ten Connecticut poets from the Festival's first decade: Doug Anderson, Bob Cording, Margaret Gibson, Gray Jacobik, Rennie McQuilkin, Marilyn Nelson, Pit Pinegar, Vivian Shipley, Steve Straight, and Sue Ellen Thompson. Following Ten for Ten will be poet/storyteller Minton Sparks and award-winning poet Toi Derricotte, co-founder of the Cave Canem Foundation. - June 13: Former NEA Chairman, Dana Gioia - June 27: Christian Wiman, editor of Poetry magazine - July 11: Pulitzer Prize winner Natasha Tretheway - July 25: Former U.S. Poet Laureate Donald Hall - August 1: Tony Hoagland, winner of numerous literary awards ------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 12:20:36 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:20:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Marton Koppany has been around for a long time. His visual work is intelligent, minimalist, usually aims at social and political issues. Fundamentally a person who embodies a great sense of responsibility towards what surrounds us. He can even be called one of our last Romantics. Bob Grumman is one of his editors. On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:55 PM, bob grumman wrote: > Chirot I'm familiar with, and because of some previous comments from > you, I've seen some of Scott Helmes's work. As well as Geoff Huth. But ( K. > S. Ernst?s, Marilyn R. Rosenberg?s, Carol Stetser?s, Marton Koppany?s) > these names ... they're new to me. > Anny has stuff by Koppany, I?m pretty sure. I could give you a lot more > names?but I fear researching them will be difficult. But let us know what > you find out. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 12:24:41 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:24:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Penn Warren In-Reply-To: <1329577860.8819.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329577860.8819.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E798D67B1FD48B097D83F8FF4012095@BobHP> Surprise, surprise, I admire Warren as both poet and novelist. Fairly decent critic, too. And was a Wilshberian before there were more than two or three non-Wilshberians of value around. Of course, I consider all poets named Robert to be first-rate. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Sat Feb 18 12:35:47 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:35:47 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Koppany's Sequences available from Ahadada Books Message-ID: A good selection of Marton's work including an interview is available from Ahadada Books--copies at SPD. Jess From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 12:35:57 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:35:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festivalin CT In-Reply-To: <1329580401.59844.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1329531500.88450.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><1442B4FB95114436AE64342351D442A2@BobHP> <1329580401.59844.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A99600ACA684F228393952BA803C64F@BobHP> From: John Jeffrey Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:53 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 2012 lineup for the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival in CT That sounds like a great idea, but alas I have no sway over the folks at Sunken Garden. How about I go to some of the readings and leave visual poem flyers on the cars in the parking lot? In fact, that sounds like a way to get visual poems out to the masses: Blanket the windshields in Walmart parking lots with flyers of visual poems. Couldn't be any worse than those I always get for a new hair salon or a car wash, unless-- Wait! Maybe those ARE visual poems! Have you ever written a visual poem about a place called "Bobbie's Cut n Curl" with a visual of a woman with a mop on her head? --John J Hmmm, I like the flyers idea?at the Sunken Gardens parking lot, but not at Walmart. I handed out flyers for my current exhibition to friends of mine on my seniors tennis team, and none of them have yet gone to it. Probably if I?d gotten after them, or their wives, they would have but?believe it or not?I?m not pushy that way at all. But flyers in gallery or museum parking lots might work . . . except bigCity galleries don?t have parking lots, do they? Maybe pass them out to everyone attending a writers? conference?possibly even talk those running it into making a hand-out part of what attendees get. I don?t think it?d work in university parking lots, even those near English department buildings. I don?t think teachers and students there have the adventurousness to more than glance at them. I?ll try to work up a flyer for you, John. Should be a fun thing for me to try, but I won?t hold you to your offer. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 12:39:09 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:39:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner In-Reply-To: References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C31D02F5351481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP> From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The thesaurus/Mel Bochner Marton Koppany has been around for a long time. His visual work is intelligent, minimalist, usually aims at social and political issues. Fundamentally a person who embodies a great sense of responsibility towards what surrounds us. He can even be called one of our last Romantics. Bob Grumman is one of his editors. And his leading critic in this country!!! (I think. But others have written about his work.) Of course, I just call all who are indifferent to his work morons, and let it go at that. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 13:36:17 2012 From: wlantry at gmail.com (W.F. Lantry) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:36:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As far as I can tell, no-one's contesting Bob's determination to be "Bob," although I must say I agree with what Amy said. But taking my words, intended specifically only for this group, and cutting and pasting them onto his publicly available blog, using my name, without my permission, is not exactly cool. It is unseemly at best, clearly dishonest, and certainly not cricket. And people wonder why more people don't participate in the conversation here? Why would they, when participating means one loses oversight of one's own words? Best, Bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 14:56:22 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:56:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: <1329396474.21947.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <1329396474.21947.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01EACA060D6C46869EE0C6BC26A82322@BobHP> From: amy king Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:47 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet Criticism gets a bad rap, and representation, at New Poetry today. It's either 'rosy country club swings' or Bob's version of insult and make-believe designed to garner attention. Why is this not an insult, however little it bothers me? My posts here, very few of them pieces of criticism, and a much lower percentage of which are insulting than is true of yours, are designed to express my opinions. Sure, I want people to attend to them, as I would think any poster would, but almost entirely in the hopes of getting interesting responses, negative or positive. And what in the world is ?make-believe? about them? Do you ever support your assertions with data? Do you ever answer questions about your assertions? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 15:02:59 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:02:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <163FC3E06FFA4D0691FACBD8AA79AA3F@BobHP> From: W.F. Lantry Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:36 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic As far as I can tell, no-one's contesting Bob's determination to be "Bob," although I must say I agree with what Amy said. But taking my words, intended specifically only for this group, and cutting and pasting them onto his publicly available blog, using my name, without my permission, is not exactly cool. It is unseemly at best, clearly dishonest, and certainly not cricket. It wasn?t dishonest to quote your insults, Bill, although against some standards. I wouldn?t be too bothered: very few people visit my blog (my guess is twenty, tops?I don?t trust the counter, which seems to count each daily visit for all entries at the top page for that day. And, look, I gave you the opportunity, which you took advantage of, to use the Amy method against me: attacking me morally rather than defending your implication that I?m not a very good poet by telling us how the poem I sent you to indicated that. But I?ll paraphrase you next time. Or provide a link to the New-Poetry archives. And people wonder why more people don't participate in the conversation here? Why would they, when participating means one loses oversight of one's own words? Actually, people don?t participate much in any general poetry newsgroup or whatever this is. Except to post examples of their work or announcements of readings, books and the like. Which makes me think it?d be a good idea for someone who visits a lot of such sites to list them, and give an impressions of each. Others could add to it. Two I?m in as Best, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 15:02:17 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <6C31D02F5351481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP> References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <6C31D02F5351481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP> Message-ID: <3B0D9B86FF7C44DCA5CE8E4BE6444597@BobHP> It?s at http://poeticks.com/2012/02/19/entry-659. I don?t like it, so would particularly welcome denigrations of it (to find out if others dislike the same things about it that I do). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 15:15:00 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:15:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7467998D389844C6A4C803847E2C6985@BobHP> Accidentally sent this out before finishing it. As far as I can tell, no-one's contesting Bob's determination to be "Bob" . . . . . . And people wonder why more people don't participate in the conversation here? Actually, people don?t participate much in any general poetry newsgroup or whatever this is. Except to post examples of their work or announcements of readings, books and the like. Which makes me think it?d be a good idea for someone who visits a lot of such sites to list them, and give an impressions of each. Others could add to it. Two I?m in are Asemic Writing- The New Post-Literate and Otherstream Unlimited. Just about no one there does anything but post examples of their work, and hit a ?like? button. I think I?ve made almost no ?offensive? posts to either group, but that?s probably because most people in them have the same, or a much worse, opinion of Wilshberia than I have. Of course, people who don?t like visual poetry and related art stay away. I would love it if some of them visited and spouted the kind of opinions about the work there that I sometimes spout about SOME Wilshberian work. But ignoring work outside the mainstream is the best way to keep it there, so mainstreamers almost never discuss it. Unless someone nasty enough provokes them to? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 15:58:30 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:58:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic Message-ID: <1329598710.42554.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ? Actually, people don?t participate much in any general poetry newsgroup or whatever this is.? Except to post examples of their work or announcements of readings, books and the like.? Which makes me think it?d be a good idea for someone who visits a lot of such sites to list them, and give an impressions of each. This seems to be the case. & I'm guilty of contributing trivia. But as far as I can tell, listservs are primarily PR fronts. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, bob grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 3:02 PM ? ? From: W.F. Lantry Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:36 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic ? As far as I can tell, no-one's contesting Bob's determination to be "Bob," although I must say I agree with what Amy said. But taking my words, intended specifically only for this group, and cutting and pasting them onto his publicly available blog, using my name, without my permission, is not exactly cool. It is unseemly at best, clearly dishonest, and certainly not cricket. ? It wasn?t dishonest to quote your insults, Bill, although against some standards.? I wouldn?t be too bothered: very few people visit my blog (my guess is twenty, tops?I don?t trust the counter, which seems to count each daily visit for all entries at the top page for that day. ? And, look, I gave you the opportunity, which you took advantage of, to use the Amy method against me: attacking me morally rather than defending your implication that I?m not a very good poet by telling us how the poem I sent you to indicated that.? ? But I?ll paraphrase you next time.? Or provide a link to the New-Poetry archives. And people wonder why more people don't participate in the conversation here? Why would they, when participating means one loses oversight of one's own words? ? Actually, people don?t participate much in any general poetry newsgroup or whatever this is.? Except to post examples of their work or announcements of readings, books and the like.? Which makes me think it?d be a good idea for someone who visits a lot of such sites to list them, and give an impressions of each.? Others could add to it.? Two I?m in as ? Best, Bill _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 16:08:21 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:08:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <7467998D389844C6A4C803847E2C6985@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329599301.67908.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> But ignoring work outside the mainstream is the best way to keep it there, so mainstreamers almost never discuss it.? Unless someone nasty enough provokes them to? It's more likely that people are comfortable with what they know. Mainsteam work comforts. It rarely challenges. That would frighten the mainstream. & poetry is considered high brow, but is it really? much different from sitcom TV? The mentality. ? --- On Sat, 2/18/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 3:15 PM Accidentally sent this out before finishing it. ? As far as I can tell, no-one's contesting Bob's determination to be "Bob" . . . ? ? . . . And people wonder why more people don't participate in the conversation here? ? Actually, people don?t participate much in any general poetry newsgroup or whatever this is.? Except to post examples of their work or announcements of readings, books and the like.? Which makes me think it?d be a good idea for someone who visits a lot of such sites to list them, and give an impressions of each.? Others could add to it.? Two I?m in are ?Asemic Writing- The New Post-Literate and Otherstream Unlimited.? Just about no one there does anything but post examples of their work, and hit a ?like? button.? I think I?ve made almost no ?offensive? posts to either group, but that?s probably because most people in them have the same, or a much worse, opinion of Wilshberia than I have.? Of course, people who don?t like visual poetry and related art stay away.? I would love it if some of them visited and spouted the kind of opinions about the work there that I sometimes spout about SOME Wilshberian work.? But ignoring work outside the mainstream is the best way to keep it there, so mainstreamers almost never discuss it.? Unless someone nasty enough provokes them to? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 16:18:25 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:18:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Penn Warren In-Reply-To: <3E798D67B1FD48B097D83F8FF4012095@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329599905.96515.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> They ran out of prizes. What did they give him when there was nothing left to give? Of course, I think his career spanned 300 + years. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Robert Penn Warren To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 12:24 PM Surprise, surprise, I admire Warren as both poet and novelist.? Fairly decent critic, too.? And was a Wilshberian before there were more than two or three non-Wilshberians of value around.? Of course, I consider all poets named Robert to be first-rate. ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 16:12:10 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:12:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <3B0D9B86FF7C44DCA5CE8E4BE6444597@BobHP> References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <6C31D02F5351481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP> <3B0D9B86FF7C44DCA5CE8E4BE6444597@BobHP> Message-ID: There is something that does not work in the link you provided. On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:02 PM, bob grumman wrote: > It?s at http://poeticks.com/2012/02/19/ > entry-659. I don?t like it, so would particularly welcome denigrations > of it (to find out if others dislike the same things about it that I do). > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 16:24:58 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:24:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet In-Reply-To: <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <4F3D00BA.3070601@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: As Michael said, this is a thoughtful investigation of his writing. What disturbs me in Michael's poem and revision is the 'truth' - centuries ago moralizers taught it, which is a game I used to love, but not from contemporary authors, I like to challenge their language, the juxtaposition of images, as if the poem were an immanent space on a white page, decontextualized from anything surrounding us. On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I'd actually be curious about what this as-if editor might say if s/he > spoke through your mouth. I can't speak for Mike, but he explicitly points > out that the poem is thirty years old and never published; I doubt he'd > object to some comments that might be instructive for the rest of us, too. > > For me the poem feels like some thirty- (or forty-) year-old sonnets of > mine--earnest, witty in particular places, and a little draggy overall from > its not-quite-comfortable involvement with the received form. (And yeah, I > think most editors who mostly publish "free" verse would feel something > like this, while an editor who publishes lots of received-formal work might > feel that a poem of this metrical regularity kind of slips with "Where it > can flourish; that same cell, in dying"; in a looser sonnet it might work > fine; against all these regularities it jars a bit.) I _don't_ think that > (i. e., my hypothetical editor wouldn't think that) of the feminine rhyming > of "in dying" and "die trying," one of the really nice twists of wit here. > The twist into idiomatic diction there, though, doesn't quite resonate with > stuff like "unfurled" or "unafraid"--the very center of the earnestness I > mentioned. Then there's the idea (actually, ideas) of the poem: I'm always > a fan of poems that begin with hoops imagery, but it dumps us straight into > that conventional "reveals"/"conceals" ("truth"!) rhyme; that feels forced > to me. This begins a pattern of a good image followed by an over-explicit > declaration--a pattern that ought to be called "Sonnet Syndrome." The poem, > it seems to me (from the vantage of these thirty years) is trying to > wrestle a great thoughtfulness into vital images, but keeps getting dragged > down by its formal requirements. > > Mike, is there anything there you find a gross insult to your intelligence > or craft? Anyone else have a corrective at hand for my lapses and mistakes? > > Jerry > > > On 2/16/2012 3:46 AM, Anthony Robinson wrote: > > If I were editor of someplace you'd sent this, I'd have this feedback: > [can't say since anything less than rosy in this forum tends to get hackles > upped]. If you are interested at all, back channel at me. > t > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > >> Maybe 30 years old, never published, though I used to send it out a lot: >> >> We Are A Kind Of Map >> >> >> >> A buzzer-beating three-point shot reveals >> >> We're born to know our truths about this world, >> >> And so is everything: a fly conceals >> >> Itself till it's grown wings and they've unfurled; >> >> A virus has the key for just the cell >> >> Where it can flourish; that same cell, in dying, >> >> Creates an army ready to repel >> >> Precisely that invader or die trying. >> >> Of course that's metaphor, but not a lie, >> >> Not just a way of trying to impose >> >> Some sense on senselessness, a useless "Why?" >> >> We answer till we like what we suppose. >> >> We'll make mistakes -- but make them unafraid: >> >> We see the world with eyes the world has made. >> >> www.mikesnider.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > Lafayette LA 70506jlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 16:25:35 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:25:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329600335.12927.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I get this -- Error 404 - Not FoundI hope they don't mean 404 errors. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 4:12 PM There is something that does not work in the link you provided. On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:02 PM, bob grumman wrote: It?s at http://poeticks.com/2012/02/19/entry-659.? I don?t like it, so would particularly welcome denigrations of it (to find out if others dislike the same things about it that I do). ? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 17:06:40 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:06:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <01EACA060D6C46869EE0C6BC26A82322@BobHP> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <1329396474.21947.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <01EACA060D6C46869EE0C6BC26A82322@BobHP> Message-ID: <1329602800.22582.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Bob, Since I am not sitting online for hours on end (& have to leave for a Sat night reading), I have little time to support my assertions with a ton of data. But I will offer some easily-located choice items to put things into perspective.? First, I would ask anyone seeking such data to simply count the ad nauseum number of posts by "Bob Grumman" in the archives linked at the bottom of every email. It's as though we've walked into a room and there's that one guy who insists on setting forth the loudest and most frequently to advance his "agenda," even though his is not the only one in the room. Bob, when do you ever engage others in any way that isn't shaped by your own blindered view of "Wishberia" and where everyone's work "fits" in relation to that fake school or movement or whatever it is?? When?? And anyone who dares to point out the absurdity of these sweeping, gross generalizations and your need to situate everyone's work in that box is either, in your repetitious and limited name-calling fashion, a "moron" or an "idiot."? Historically and presently.? You berate everyone to death with your overbearing need to be heard and heard only on your terms.? All other concepts and terms are idiotic, just as anyone imploring you to be considerate (i.e. consider someone else's ideas respectfully) to be "hypersensitives" or mockery.?? Why should people who lurk bother engaging you??? You can only hear through your own filter and damn everyone else's claims. Meta: Your claim to not care about the way people engage in this listserv community, about behavior, means not being accountable for your own.? The way you go about haranguing everyone into submission is with transparent tactics such as sheer volume, phony compliments or nasty characterizations.? Even now, you have gone non-stop for the past 24 hours as the "insulted victim" - Bob, who historically insults poets on the list and poets not on the list, via his "critical" assertions, suddenly asks for considerations as the insulted martyr?? Please. This guy undertakes the tedious job of dissecting your tactics - http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm??? I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing as I am quite familiar with such tactics via this listserv.? Now for a selection, in no particular order, via a cursory search based on one of Bob's typical "characterizations" as recently posted in the last 24 hours in a message I simply don't have time to find (having deleted most of "Bob Grumman's" emails), of "moron" with your name.? I don't have time to search for more, though the 'data' is available in abundance for anyone who cares to waste a year of his or her life that they will never get back, wading through the "Bob" posts in the archives.? These cut and pastes illustrate the aforementioned pattern, esp as the loudest, most insistent and attention-seeking voice sets the tone in a room, like it or not (and ways he determines on what terms anything should be discussed): >Bob Grumman: >> ... Marcus's near-impregnible blockheadedness ...<< ***TALK ONLY ON BOB'S TERMS - EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT TO HIS WORLDVIEW (AND REQUIRES INSULT TO DISMISS): I once directed you to my taxonomy when you were telling me how bad a taxonomist I was (without, of course, indulging in name-calling). I challenged you to tell me what was wrong with it. You never did. Against a moron like you, Marcus, yes. >Bob Grumman: >> Out of curiosity, Marcus, just what makes you think you're not a blockhead?<< >>Ah, the name-calling again. Is this really the very best you can do, Bob, todefend your views? Okay, I've had it it, Marcus. I only kept this thing going because I'm much more interested in psychopathology than I am in convincing morons of the value of my taxonomy, but your brand of versopathology is too much, even for me, to endure indefinitely. >His methods' only problem is the morons who call those methods "an >absurdity." >>--Bob G. >>And once again the very best you're capable of is name-calling, >apparently. How sad. > >Which makes Grumman the pre-eminent verosopath since he is always >determined to destroy any discussion. Not to mention the pattern and >habit of his consistent name-calling, which seems to be what he >conceives to be reasoned discussion. >>>> YE OLDE STANDBY: MOCKERY - You mean it's not a gender issue? Gad, Mark, do you ever need your consciousness raised! Mathematics is both sexist and racist, as Dove quite properly realizes. --Bob AD HOM - Mycroft, I have never seen a person so proud of his ignorance. The key is inference, David. As I explained. Another good thing to try to learn is reading with some degree of understanding. --Bob I'M NOT A CRITIC HERE, NO I AM A CRITIC HERE - I almost always, as here, speak from the poet/critic?s point of view... --Bob A BIT SANTORUM ON WOMEN: Jeff Newberry wrote: >Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it >seem contrived? What's the issue? >>Jeff Newberry >Jeff, I never had my consciousness raised, so I think boys and girls are innately different. Bret Harte was not a woman. I don't like harsh names for women, even ones that are traditionally for females like "Betty." --Bob >Oh, that's rich -- Grumman complaining about someone else name- >calling. POT CALLING THE KETTLE ... I'm merely high-temperaturedly suggesting that if we want to discuss what poetry is, we shouldn't use terms dependent, as this one seem to be but may not (enlighten me if not), on vague terms based on subjective feelings. --Bob G. IRONIC? SPEAK ONLY ON "WILSHBOOBLIA'S" TERMS! >>How is this not pure bullshit? Like just about all descriptions of >poetry >by poets. > WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT FAVORED VOCABULARY BEFORE: Mistaken about what, Marcus? Something specific or only that I don't go along with the mystification of poetics by just too-ethereally-sensitive ignoramuses and propagandists of unreason. LOCATING THE DATA IS EASY. TOO EASY. GOOD NIGHT. ________________________________ Criticism gets a bad rap, and representation, at New Poetry today.? It's either 'rosy country club swings' or Bob's version of insult and make-believe designed to garner attention.? From: amy king? From: bob grumman? Why is this not an insult, however little it bothers me?? My posts here, very few of them pieces of criticism, and a much lower percentage of which are insulting than is true of yours, are designed to express my opinions.? Sure, I want people to attend to them, as I would think any poster would, but almost entirely in the hopes of getting interesting responses, negative or positive.? And what in the world is ?make-believe? about them?? Do you ever support your assertions with data?? Do you ever answer questions about your assertions? ? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 17:14:03 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:14:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329602800.22582.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329603243.20454.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 5:06 PM Bob, Since I am not sitting online for hours on end (& have to leave for a Sat night reading), I have little time to support my assertions with a ton of data. But I will offer some easily-located choice items to put things into perspective.? First, I would ask anyone seeking such data to simply count the ad nauseum number of posts by "Bob Grumman" in the archives linked at the bottom of every email. It's as though we've walked into a room and there's that one guy who insists on setting forth the loudest and most frequently to advance his "agenda," even though his is not the only one in the room. Bob, when do you ever engage others in any way that isn't shaped by your own blindered view of "Wishberia" and where everyone's work "fits" in relation to that fake school or movement or whatever it is?? When?? And anyone who dares to point out the absurdity of these sweeping, gross generalizations and your need to situate everyone's work in that box is either, in your repetitious and limited name-calling fashion, a "moron" or an "idiot."? Historically and presently.? You berate everyone to death with your overbearing need to be heard and heard only on your terms.? All other concepts and terms are idiotic, just as anyone imploring you to be considerate (i.e. consider someone else's ideas respectfully) to be "hypersensitives" or mockery.?? Why should people who lurk bother engaging you??? You can only hear through your own filter and damn everyone else's claims. Meta: Your claim to not care about the way people engage in this listserv community, about behavior, means not being accountable for your own.? The way you go about haranguing everyone into submission is with transparent tactics such as sheer volume, phony compliments or nasty characterizations.? Even now, you have gone non-stop for the past 24 hours as the "insulted victim" - Bob, who historically insults poets on the list and poets not on the list, via his "critical" assertions, suddenly asks for considerations as the insulted martyr?? Please. This guy undertakes the tedious job of dissecting your tactics -?? I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing as I am quite familiar with such tactics via this listserv.? Now for a selection, in no particular order, via a cursory search based on one of Bob's typical "characterizations" as recently posted in the last 24 hours in a message I simply don't have time to find (having deleted most of "Bob Grumman's" emails), of "moron" with your name.? I don't have time to search for more, though the 'data' is available in abundance for anyone who cares to waste a year of his or her life that they will never get back, wading through the "Bob" posts in the archives.? These cut and pastes illustrate the aforementioned pattern, esp as the loudest, most insistent and attention-seeking voice sets the tone in a room, like it or not (and ways he determines on what terms anything should be discussed): > Bob Grumman: > > ... Marcus's near-impregnible blockheadedness ...<< ***TALK ONLY ON BOB'S TERMS - EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT TO HIS WORLDVIEW (AND REQUIRES INSULT TO DISMISS): I once directed you to my taxonomy when you were telling me how bad a taxonomist I was (without, of course, indulging in name-calling). I challenged you to tell me what was wrong with it. You never did.Against a moron like you, Marcus, yes. > Bob Grumman: > > Out of curiosity, Marcus, just what makes you think you're not a blockhead?<< > > Ah, the name-calling again. Is this really the very best you can do, Bob, to defend your views? Okay, I've had it it, Marcus. I only kept this thing going because I'm much more interested in psychopathology than I am in convincing morons of the value of my taxonomy, but your brand of versopathology is too much, even for me, to endure indefinitely. >His methods' only problem is the morons who call those methods "an >absurdity." > >--Bob G. > >And once again the very best you're capable of is name-calling, >apparently. How sad. > >Which makes Grumman the pre-eminent verosopath since he is always >determined to destroy any discussion. Not to mention the pattern and >habit of his consistent name-calling, which seems to be what he >conceives to be reasoned discussion. > > > > YE OLDE STANDBY: MOCKERY - You mean it's not a gender issue? Gad, Mark, do you ever need your consciousness raised! Mathematics is both sexist and racist, as Dove quite properly realizes. --Bob AD HOM - Mycroft, I have never seen a person so proud of his ignorance. The key is inference, David. As I explained. Another good thing to try to learn is reading with some degree of understanding. --Bob I'M NOT A CRITIC HERE, NO I AM A CRITIC HERE - I almost always, as here, speak from the poet/critic?s point of view... --Bob A BIT SANTORUM ON WOMEN: Jeff Newberry wrote: > Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it > seem contrived? What's the issue? > > Jeff Newberry > Jeff, I never had my consciousness raised, so I think boys and girls are innately different. Bret Harte was not a woman. I don't like harsh names for women, even ones that are traditionally for females like "Betty." --Bob > Oh, that's rich -- Grumman complaining about someone else name- > calling. POT CALLING THE KETTLE ... I'm merely high-temperaturedly suggesting that if we want to discuss what poetry is, we shouldn't use terms dependent, as this one seem to be but may not (enlighten me if not), on vague terms based on subjective feelings. --Bob G. IRONIC? SPEAK ONLY ON "WILSHBOOBLIA'S" TERMS! >>How is this not pure bullshit? Like just about all descriptions of > poetry > by poets. > WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT FAVORED VOCABULARY BEFORE: Mistaken about what, Marcus? Something specific or only that I don't go along with the mystification of poetics by just too-ethereally-sensitive ignoramuses and propagandists of unreason. LOCATING THE DATA IS EASY. TOO EASY. GOOD NIGHT. Criticism gets a bad rap, and representation, at New Poetry today.? It's either 'rosy country club swings' or Bob's version of insult and make-believe designed to garner attention.? From: amy king? From: bob grumman? Why is this not an insult, however little it bothers me?? My posts here, very few of them pieces of criticism, and a much lower percentage of which are insulting than is true of yours, are designed to express my opinions.? Sure, I want people to attend to them, as I would think any poster would, but almost entirely in the hopes of getting interesting responses, negative or positive.? And what in the world is ?make-believe? about them?? Do you ever support your assertions with data?? Do you ever answer questions about your assertions? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 17:07:01 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:07:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329598710.42554.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329598710.42554.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329602821.41729.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> And "Bob" is his own biggest salesman.? ________________________________ From: stephen russell This seems to be the case. & I'm guilty of contributing trivia. But as far as I can tell, listservs are primarily PR fronts. if he saw my mathematical poems, they?d convert him! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 17:37:52 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:37:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: <1329602821.41729.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1329598710.42554.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1329602821.41729.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <314EA51C69BC414C88563F9073C6D3CD@BobHP> From: amy king Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:07 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic And "Bob" is his own biggest salesman. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen russell This seems to be the case. & I'm guilty of contributing trivia. But as far as I can tell, listservs are primarily PR fronts. if he saw my mathematical poems, they?d convert him! --BobI don?t think I?ve ever said anything like that, but I may have?in which case, you are quoting me out of context. However, people like you rarely quote anyone; they prefer to put what others say into their own words. Anyway, I disagree that listservs (thanks for reminding me that?s what New-Poetry is), are primarily PR fronts?unless you mean that is what they are primarily used for. As I?ve said, I use it to express opinions, and read the opinions of others. Not that there isn?t a PR aspect to it, but there?s a PR aspect to everything anyone does when others are around.--Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 17:39:30 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:39:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Motto as a Poetry Critic In-Reply-To: References: <1329337818.52167.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3A20A1831B9C47E7BCBA6A620113B6C8@BobHP> <1329426556.91348.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329604770.83224.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sorry to be brief, Tony - running out the door - replies follow: ________________________________ From: Anthony Robinson Amy, >>What I AM DEFENDING is Bob's right to be Bob, that is...he says his stuff and you either like it or you don't. You engage with it or you don't.? Exactly, even as you are defending my right to be me.? So I engage with it because, as already noted, I combat how he sets the tone on the list.? He's historically rude, and I don't think it's an accident that primarily women are missing in discussions - his tone is combative, dismissive and insulting.?? As I just wrote, why would anyone engage in discussions when they know that Bob, or one of his actual defenders, will likely chime in with mockery, name-calling or dismissal bc they aren't participating on his terms?? He shuts them up with sheer volume, as noted in my last post.? Where did anyone say Bob can't be Bob?? Why do you need to defend that?? Calling him 'just a cranky old dude' though, that certainly does excuse his behavior.??? >>I have made clear, recently, and ten years ago, when I first encountered Bob, that I think he's pretty wrong on a lot of what he has to say.? But that's fine with me. Lots of people don't agree on the list, but not many get a chance to say so without Bob getting insulting and posting to death.??? As I've stated, he sets a tone, like it or not, and has done so historically.? He doesn't let up either until the other person gives up.? Check the archives - and yes, this tone carries on into the present.? >>From what I know of you, Amy, you're a thoughtful and respectful person.? ... what I don't understand is why you guys need to jump on Bob's shit every time he posts something.? Doesn't that just encourage him? Probably.? Mine is likely a waste of time.? The women I refer to have gone silent, despite recently having spoken up, Bob carries on his usual dominating fashion, and the occasional defender pops in to reinvigorate him, though I doubt he needs that.? I enjoy a lot of what Jerry and Robin post on, and a few others, but weeding through the "Bob G" posts is tiresome and I also know what those posts are indicative of:? my "shadowy" suspicion that mostly women and some men have left (or delete digests) because they don't see being forced to engage / defend on Bob's dogmatic terms to be a worthwhile investment of time.? Of course, as always, my claims are "shadowy" and the few women who spoke up recently and the even some men are not to be considered.? Neither is Bob's behavior because it will carry on as usual.? Running out the door - Amy If I read something on here I don't like, I delete it. It's easy. It's this democracy thing we got going.? As to the notion that Bob and his shadowy cadre of men are policing this list against women...that there is a sexist conspiracy happening here---well, I don't see it.? But I'm a man.?? To me, whenever Bob and his behavior comes up, I see a lot of people bickering.?? If there is a gendered element to all of this, then please let us know how this plays out.?? Otherwise, we're still left with, on one side, the old crank, and on the other, his detractors. Anyway, I'm not posting this (or anything) on here to ruffle any feathers. I'm just trying to understand the "Bob problem" and I suspect that there is a lot here that I don't understand because I'm not privy to a lot of history here.? That's neither my bad or yours...I just haven't been around in a while.? What I have seen, though, has been Bob on pretty good for Bob behavior, and people getting really angry at him.?? If I were a Bob detractor, I'd at least wait until he did something really offensive or stupid before I jumped. Tony On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:09 PM, amy king wrote: Tony, > >While yours sounds quite reasonable and well-intentioned, it also echoes privilege in the form of "boys will be boys" via the "old crank" should be forgiven for saying offensive things and forgotten at every turn.? He's just a cranky old dude, after all.? But.? I cannot read the "Bob" I know from New Poetry as a newborn entity with each post anymore than I can walk into a room and greet the demanding narcissist who drops racist bombs with fresh eyes and open arms.?? > >As I've noted in the past, only to have met with much resistance, a few folks' 'behavior' here has created an unwelcoming or, at the very least, unsupportive posting climate for women, and likely others I don't know of (Go on, take me task - I'm saying this bc it makes me so popular and wins me friends & female posters are plentiful and long-standing members).? I count Bob's insistence and "curmudgeonly" manner / responses among those few.? So I will not divorce what I see as Bob's patterns and his agenda (yes, everyone has one), from the way I reply to Bob anymore than I will hug the narcissist when he asks for more attention.? > >As you note, we all have the right to speak; I don't see why I am (or anyone) supposed to be selective and forgetful of the Bob I've come to know when I reply.? If my disdain comes through, I would point out that mine is focused on who I see as the culprit and specifically addresses what he posts, while Bob's echoes throughout the list, for some time now, and affects a good number of people with his sweeping dismissals, nasty characterizations, etc.? Why is the "curmudgeon" excused such expression, but I am to be policed?? "Let's let him say it" applies across the board. > >Further, where is the "attack?"? Chris has offered point-by-point critical response.? And I addressed specifics in "Bob's" "motto," esp his continuous use of "I" represents his undying push to dominate New Poetry discussions with his agenda as well as his preemptive qualifier to insult and dismiss anyone who may challenge his murky "criticism" (or is it critical pall?) (oh the hypersensitives!).? I'm supposed to forget who I'm addressing and ignore any "cranky old dude" hints to boot?? As noted, I have every right to reply, as does anyone else who posts, and I addressed his motto post directly.?? > >**And seriously, this reductive characterization that any response now will be akin to "But he started it" is one way of dismissing any problem anyone has with the "curmudgeon" as child's play, as though no one could actually have a meritorious issue / problem with Bob's postings / posturings.?? > >This preemptive dismissal reminds me of when I ask why women don't post in this combative atmosphere more often.? Oh I know, I'm just being one of those simple-thinking feminists - everyone likes women on New Poetry and responds so nicely, historically, to what they post.? So what the heck am I talking about - he's just an "old crank"!? Forget what any of the few women who were willing to speak up said; there's no merit in my claims or their words - we're imagining things.? Long live the cuddly crank of a curmudgeon and anything he says to advance his agenda (bc we've all got one) - let's forget and forgive dudes who affect the rooms they occupy in favor of cute nicknames that cloud over repeat behaviors that fill the room with "brave" farts.? > >Pardon my quickie metaphor, > >Amy > > > >________________________________ > From: Anthony Robinson > > > >I won't jump into this fray any more than I already have (which is, thankfully, so far, not very much) but I have a couple of things to type at -- the internet, I suppose. > >1) until recently, I'd been away from this list for a very long time. Many years.? I don't know, of course, all that's gone down since then.? I don't know who has offended whom or how, or to what extent.? > >2) Bob Grumman was, ten years ago, something of what I semi-affectionately call "an old crank."? He has his tastes (and, Chris, OF COURSE his agenda.? Who DOESN'T have an agenda?) and he is braver than most in that he has no problem airing them in a public forum, all the rest y'all be damned.?? Whether I agree with his tastes or his agenda (and I almost never do) I applaud him for being unafraid to say what he says. > >3) If this is a private club, or a mutual admiration society and Bob, in his rantings, his declarations, his use of idiosyncratic bob-centric terminology, his endless taxonomies, manages to violate some of the unspoken rules of etiquette of this club, by all means denounce him and/or kick him out. > >4) If he wants to say what he wants to say (or I, or Amy, or Chris, or Finnegan, or Hal, or Cervantes, or whoever) then, well, let's let him say it. > >5) It seems to me that recently folks are simply attacking Bob not on the basis of what he posts here but on the basis of their idea of Bob and Bobness, or things he has done or said in the past.?? Not really helpful or advancing any discussion.?? Case:? Bob's recent "motto" of poetry criticism.? NOTHING he wrote in that would be remotely considered offensive by anyone on this last had it not come from Bob Grumman.?? Some folks are attacking the man, not what he says.?? Now I anticipate the "Well, Bob does that!? Bob started it!"?? Very well.? That doesn't mean we have to continue it. > >That's all from me on this subject now. I'm off to find a book of poetry or a poem to criticize.? I will, of course, link my efforts here. > >Best, >Tony > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 18:02:53 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:02:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329602800.22582.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <61C950C6-F746-4FC0-A230-635CC97475C6@mikesnider.org> <1329396474.21947.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><01EACA060D6C46869EE0C6BC26A82322@BobHP> <1329602800.22582.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <25B0EDA3D0674DE98DB02D9144AFC822@BobHP> From: amy king Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:06 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Bob, Since I am not sitting online for hours on end (& have to leave for a Sat night reading), I have little time to support my assertions with a ton of data. But I will offer some easily-located choice items to put things into perspective. First, I would ask anyone seeking such data to simply count the ad nauseum number of posts by "Bob Grumman" in the archives linked at the bottom of every email. It's as though we've walked into a room and there's that one guy who insists on setting forth the loudest and most frequently to advance his "agenda," even though his is not the only one in the room. Bob, when do you ever engage others in any way that isn't shaped by your own blindered view of "Wishberia" and where everyone's work "fits" in relation to that fake school or movement or whatever it is? When? And anyone who dares to point out the absurdity of these sweeping, gross generalizations and your need to situate everyone's work in that box is either, in your repetitious and limited name-calling fashion, a "moron" or an "idiot." Historically and presently. You berate everyone to death with your overbearing need to be heard and heard only on your terms. All other concepts and terms are idiotic, just as anyone imploring you to be considerate (i.e. consider someone else's ideas respectfully) to be "hypersensitives" or mockery. Why should people who lurk bother engaging you? You can only hear through your own filter and damn everyone else's claims. Meta: Your claim to not care about the way people engage in this listserv community, about behavior, means not being accountable for your own. The way you go about haranguing everyone into submission is with transparent tactics such as sheer volume, phony compliments or nasty characterizations. Even now, you have gone non-stop for the past 24 hours as the "insulted victim" - Bob, who historically insults poets on the list and poets not on the list, via his "critical" assertions, suddenly asks for considerations as the insulted martyr? Please. This guy undertakes the tedious job of dissecting your tactics - http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing as I am quite familiar with such tactics via this listserv. Now for a selection, in no particular order, via a cursory search based on one of Bob's typical "characterizations" as recently posted in the last 24 hours in a message I simply don't have time to find (having deleted most of "Bob Grumman's" emails), of "moron" with your name. I don't have time to search for more, though the 'data' is available in abundance for anyone who cares to waste a year of his or her life that they will never get back, wading through the "Bob" posts in the archives. These cut and pastes illustrate the aforementioned pattern, esp as the loudest, most insistent and attention-seeking voice sets the tone in a room, like it or not (and ways he determines on what terms anything should be discussed): > Bob Grumman: > > ... Marcus's near-impregnible blockheadedness ...<< ***TALK ONLY ON BOB'S TERMS - EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT TO HIS WORLDVIEW (AND REQUIRES INSULT TO DISMISS): I once directed you to my taxonomy when you were telling me how bad a taxonomist I was (without, of course, indulging in name-calling). I challenged you to tell me what was wrong with it. You never did.Against a moron like you, Marcus, yes. > Bob Grumman: > > Out of curiosity, Marcus, just what makes you think you're not a blockhead?<< > > Ah, the name-calling again. Is this really the very best you can do, Bob, to defend your views? Okay, I've had it it, Marcus. I only kept this thing going because I'm much more interested in psychopathology than I am in convincing morons of the value of my taxonomy, but your brand of versopathology is too much, even for me, to endure indefinitely.>His methods' only problem is the morons who call those methods "an >absurdity." > >--Bob G.> >And once again the very best you're capable of is name-calling, >apparently. How sad. >>Which makes Grumman the pre-eminent verosopath since he is always >determined to destroy any discussion. Not to mention the pattern and >habit of his consistent name-calling, which seems to be what he >conceives to be reasoned discussion. > > > >YE OLDE STANDBY: MOCKERY - You mean it's not a gender issue? Gad, Mark, do you ever need your consciousness raised! Mathematics is both sexist and racist, as Dove quite properly realizes. --BobAD HOM - Mycroft, I have never seen a person so proud of his ignorance. The key is inference, David. As I explained. Another good thing to try to learn is reading with some degree of understanding. --Bob I'M NOT A CRITIC HERE, NO I AM A CRITIC HERE - I almost always, as here, speak from the poet/critic?s point of view... --BobA BIT SANTORUM ON WOMEN:Jeff Newberry wrote: > Please, Bob, do tell. How exactly is Bret a horrible name? Does it > seem contrived? What's the issue? > > Jeff Newberry > Jeff, I never had my consciousness raised, so I think boys and girls are innately different. Bret Harte was not a woman. I don't like harsh names for women, even ones that are traditionally for females like "Betty." --Bob > Oh, that's rich -- Grumman complaining about someone else name- > calling.POT CALLING THE KETTLE ... I'm merely high-temperaturedly suggesting that if we want to discuss what poetry is, we shouldn't use terms dependent, as this one seem to be but may not (enlighten me if not), on vague terms based on subjective feelings. --Bob G. IRONIC? SPEAK ONLY ON "WILSHBOOBLIA'S" TERMS! >>How is this not pure bullshit? Like just about all descriptions of > poetry > by poets. > WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT FAVORED VOCABULARY BEFORE: Mistaken about what, Marcus? Something specific or only that I don't go along with the mystification of poetics by just too-ethereally-sensitive ignoramuses and propagandists of unreason. LOCATING THE DATA IS EASY. TOO EASY. GOOD NIGHT. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, Amy?what is easy is cherry-picking?finding data that you believe supports you (i.e., most of which you don?t come close to understanding), and taking it out of context, like my exchanges with Marcus, who gave as much as he got?and those exchanges were far from all insult; we actually had quite complex, discussions of what poetry is, however sometimes confused (due to me as well as him), a problem which was more important to us than, apparently, anyone else at New-Poetry. By the way, Marcus later arranged an exhibition of visual poetry in Ohio (Cleveland, I think), and invited me to curate it. I did so, with two co-curators because I couldn?t afford to travel to Ohio. What he said about poetry helped me in my taxonomy?for instance, he forced me to find a way for me to classify postal addresses as non-poetry. So what? Well, it was important to me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 18:09:57 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:09:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku In-Reply-To: References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><6C31D02F5351 481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP><3B0D9B86FF7C44DCA5CE8E4BE6444597@BobHP> Message-ID: From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:12 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku There is something that does not work in the link you provided. Okay, go to http://poeticks.com. I think the other one works after the entry is off the front page of my blog. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 18:22:39 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:22:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329603243.20454.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329603243.20454.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42BAF20EE2A5418B800E68B33ED2C0A9@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist. http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm This will be read. Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale. I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires. At least he posted my replies to him. But I better get off. I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them. Narcissism, you know. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 18 18:23:50 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:23:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Mathemaku In-Reply-To: References: <1329516753.26274.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><6C31D02F5351 481495BD9E955B52BAF1@BobHP><3B0D9B86FF7C44DCA5CE8E4BE6444597@BobHP> Message-ID: Thanks Anny and Stephen for letting me know about the link. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 18:23:58 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:23:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Message-ID: <1329607438.56229.androidMobile@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Only three of those ten plus quotes are to Marcus, and they all evidence the way you "communicate" and set a tone on this list.? The sheer number of your posts illustrate how much you attempt to dominate and shape discussions.? Of course, no one is ever right but you, so what's the point of offering any data. That's rhetorical as everyone has learned this lesson well. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Feb 18 18:29:39 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:29:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Message-ID: <1329607779.33748.androidMobile@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me.? Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s.? All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Sun Feb 19 11:11:50 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:11:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Congrats On The New Book, Skip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've got Delta Blues, Skip, and like it a lot. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 17, 2012, at 18:02, Skip Fox wrote: > Thanks, Jess. > > _At That_, beautifully published by Ahadada, is also easy to obtain. > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:48 PM, wrote: > Just wanted to congratulate Skip on his new selected and to mention that > ahadada books has available Delta Blues--Skip at his best--and yet > another title. Check the listing on SPD. Kudos. Orlando Jess > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Feb 19 13:15:51 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:15:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Message-ID: <1329675351.65632.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Narcissism, you know.? I'm curious. What's the difference between criticism and color commentary? David Foster Wallace: footnote 24 (String Theory) -- John McEnroe wasn't all that tall, and he was arguably the est serve-and-volley man of all time, but then McEnroe was an exception to pretty much every predictive norm there was. At his peak (say 1980 to 1984), he was the greatest tennis player who ever lived - the most talented, the most beautiful, the most tormented: a genius.? For me, watching McEnroe don a blue polyester blazer and do stiff lame truistic color commentary for TV is like watching Faulkner do a Gap ad. As a teenager, Foster was a nationally ranked tennis player. Impressive, for a math guy. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 6:29 PM The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me. Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s. All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 11:22:39 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist.? ? http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. ? Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale.? I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires.? At least he posted my replies to him. ? But I better get off.? I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them.? Narcissism, you know.? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Feb 19 13:39:24 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:39:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329607779.33748.androidMobile@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329676764.84020.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This will be read. There will be blood ... sequel ... ? --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 6:29 PM The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me. Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s. All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 11:22:39 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist.? ? http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. ? Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale.? I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires.? At least he posted my replies to him. ? But I better get off.? I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them.? Narcissism, you know.? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Feb 19 13:36:57 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:36:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329675351.65632.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329676617.46052.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?.... 46 footnotes ... for a 21 page essay. George Bernard Shaw ... David Foster Wallace ... We prefer not to consider closely the shockingly vapid and primitive comments uttered by athletes in postcontest interviews or to consider what impoverishments in one's mental life would allow people actually to think the way great athletes seem to think. Note the way "up close and personal" profiles of professional athletes strain so hard to find evidence of a rounded human life ... outside interests and activities, values beyond the sport. --- On Sun, 2/19/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 1:15 PM Narcissism, you know.? I'm curious. What's the difference between criticism and color commentary? David Foster Wallace: footnote 24 (String Theory) -- John McEnroe wasn't all that tall, and he was arguably the est serve-and-volley man of all time, but then McEnroe was an exception to pretty much every predictive norm there was. At his peak (say 1980 to 1984), he was the greatest tennis player who ever lived - the most talented, the most beautiful, the most tormented: a genius.? For me, watching McEnroe don a blue polyester blazer and do stiff lame truistic color commentary for TV is like watching Faulkner do a Gap ad. As a teenager, Foster was a nationally ranked tennis player. Impressive, for a math guy. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 6:29 PM The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me. Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s. All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 11:22:39 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist.? ? http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. ? Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale.? I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires.? At least he posted my replies to him. ? But I better get off.? I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them.? Narcissism, you know.? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Feb 19 14:02:33 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:02:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329676764.84020.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329678153.4277.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Of course, over the years I?ve had Cosmoetica I?ve had 100s of such poetasters challenge me & I?ve soundly whipped them all- ? ? ? ? ?? Didn't Dan once host Championship wrestling? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Sun, 2/19/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 1:39 PM This will be read. There will be blood ... sequel ... ? --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 6:29 PM The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me. Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s. All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 11:22:39 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist.? ? http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. ? Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale.? I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires.? At least he posted my replies to him. ? But I better get off.? I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them.? Narcissism, you know.? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Feb 19 14:26:31 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:26:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329676617.46052.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1329679591.39892.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> moreover, consider: 2 lit guys who love footnotes ... G Bernard Shaw ... (4 syllable name) ... David Foster Wallace ... (6 syllable name) ... 46! ... equal the number of footnotes in the aforesaid essay ... people with lives don't notice such things ... i do ... therefore ... --- On Sun, 2/19/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 1:36 PM ?.... 46 footnotes ... for a 21 page essay. George Bernard Shaw ... David Foster Wallace ... We prefer not to consider closely the shockingly vapid and primitive comments uttered by athletes in postcontest interviews or to consider what impoverishments in one's mental life would allow people actually to think the way great athletes seem to think. Note the way "up close and personal" profiles of professional athletes strain so hard to find evidence of a rounded human life ... outside interests and activities, values beyond the sport. --- On Sun, 2/19/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 1:15 PM Narcissism, you know.? I'm curious. What's the difference between criticism and color commentary? David Foster Wallace: footnote 24 (String Theory) -- John McEnroe wasn't all that tall, and he was arguably the est serve-and-volley man of all time, but then McEnroe was an exception to pretty much every predictive norm there was. At his peak (say 1980 to 1984), he was the greatest tennis player who ever lived - the most talented, the most beautiful, the most tormented: a genius.? For me, watching McEnroe don a blue polyester blazer and do stiff lame truistic color commentary for TV is like watching Faulkner do a Gap ad. As a teenager, Foster was a nationally ranked tennis player. Impressive, for a math guy. --- On Sat, 2/18/12, amy king wrote: From: amy king Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 6:29 PM The newfound martyr narrative continues - as does the attempts to ingratiate yourself to others who have taken your tactics to task by aligning yourself against me. Bob, for someone who claims to find things "comic", this is laughable. Yours, Betty (sorry my name is such a "harsh" one for a woman! - that gem made me laugh out loud) P.s. All quotes are from the archives - none have been made up, as implied. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: bob grumman ; To: NewPoetry List ; Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 11:22:39 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:14 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? Dan Schneider has an audience ... by poetry standards, a rather large audience. Yes, he?s a populist.? ? http://www.cosmoetica.com/D33-DES24.htm? This will be read. ? Ol? Dan is a gentle soul (except that for some reason he has been attacked the way Amy attacks me, for similar reasons!) who despises both the Otherstream and Wilshberia?except for just a few living in that locale.? I would hate to be one of the poets or critics he admires.? At least he posted my replies to him. ? But I better get off.? I have this horrible habit of replying to what others say about me, or say about posts about me, especially when I disagree with them.? Narcissism, you know.? ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Mon Feb 20 12:33:23 2012 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:33:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions. somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering proof. e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three percent accurate. i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, wordsworth? etc and et al. this dan schneider character sounds blind and deaf to himself and others. physically impaired. if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another story. : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 20 13:00:14 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:00:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C8D62CBBA53432783EB9686CE26F002@BobHP> From: Jared Schickling Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:33 PM To: New Poetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions. somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering proof. e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three percent accurate. i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, wordsworth? etc and et al. this dan schneider character sounds blind and deaf to himself and others. physically impaired. if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another story. Hey, thanks for agreeing with me about him, Jared. I like that fact that he is willing to take on poets he doesn?t like, but . . . --Bob : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Mon Feb 20 13:11:20 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:11:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <4C8D62CBBA53432783EB9686CE26F002@BobHP> References: <4C8D62CBBA53432783EB9686CE26F002@BobHP> Message-ID: I remember reading a long article on this Schneider guy a few years ago. He's quite a character. Quite a weird character. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* Jared Schickling > *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2012 12:33 PM > *To:* New Poetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" > > this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions. > somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i > dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked > nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think > doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering > proof. e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three > percent accurate. i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not > sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've > never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in > mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, > wordsworth? etc and et al. this dan schneider character sounds blind and > deaf to himself and others. physically impaired. > > if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another > story. > > Hey, thanks for agreeing with me about him, Jared. I like that fact that > he *is* willing to take on poets he doesn?t like, but . . . > > --Bob > > > : *eccolinguistics * : > : *delete press * : > : *reconfigurations * : > > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Mon Feb 20 13:12:40 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:12:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] today on the blog: David Antin, not writing, beginning a dialogue on Berryman's Dream Songs. Message-ID: horizonpoint.blogspot.com coming soon: Susan Briante's _Utopia Minus_. -T -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 20 18:50:35 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:50:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: References: <4C8D62CBBA53432783EB9686CE26F002@BobHP> Message-ID: <8CEBE419359DBB5-E28-4234C@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> The 'train wreck' school of criticism. Or a William Logan for the illiterati. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Robinson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" I remember reading a long article on this Schneider guy a few years ago. He's quite a character. Quite a weird character. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, bob grumman wrote: From: Jared Schickling Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:33 PM To: New Poetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions. somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering proof. e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three percent accurate. i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, wordsworth? etc and et al. this dan schneider character sounds blind and deaf to himself and others. physically impaired. if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another story. Hey, thanks for agreeing with me about him, Jared. I like that fact that he is willing to take on poets he doesn?t like, but . . . --Bob : nfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Feb 20 19:03:03 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:03:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <8CEBE419359DBB5-E28-4234C@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C8D62CBBA534327 83EB9686CE26F002@BobHP> <8CEBE419359DBB5-E28-4234C@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <922DAB50C18D43A986EF46D547495255@BobHP> From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 6:50 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" The 'train wreck' school of criticism. Or a William Logan for the illiterati. Finnegan Wow, two beautifully apt phrases in one short post. What?s going on, Finnegan? (But remember, everyone: Dan may still be right about some poets, including even me!) --Bob -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Robinson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" I remember reading a long article on this Schneider guy a few years ago. He's quite a character. Quite a weird character. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, bob grumman wrote: From: Jared Schickling Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:33 PM To: New Poetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions. somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering proof. e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three percent accurate. i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, wordsworth? etc and et al. this dan schneider character sounds blind and deaf to himself and others. physically impaired. if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another story. Hey, thanks for agreeing with me about him, Jared. I like that fact that he is willing to take on poets he doesn?t like, but . . . --Bob : nfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 20 19:43:49 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:43:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic License (play) Message-ID: <8CEBE4903187AC0-F0-585B0@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> http://theater.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/theater/reviews/poetic-license-by-jack-canfora-at-59e59-theaters.html ?Poetic License? is a bookcases play. That is, one look at the librarylike set (in this case, a particularly handsome one designed by Jessica L. Parks) suggests the characters are almost certain to be college-educated and will demonstrate some verbal acuity. And these inferences are proved true. John Greer (Geraint Wyn Davies) and his wife, Diane (Liza Vann), are in a bubbly mood because he is about to be named poet laureate of the United States. As they come home from a faculty get-together, they find that their daughter, Katherine (Natalie Kuhn), and her new live-in boyfriend, Edmund (Ari Butler), have arrived early for their weekend visit. It turns out that Edmund has an ulterior motive for being there ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 21 09:53:55 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:53:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" Message-ID: <1329836035.26186.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've never known?Schneider to engage with any poet, Bob. ?The boast "take on" is empty.?Often, when?a Schneider or people like him?claim to?take on poets they don't like, it's almost always?with the assumption?that they're justified, that the poet has done something wrong.?Never, am I a sloppy reader.?I'm willing to trust a critic?when he or she has shown me the insight that comes with scholarship. If I want dopey opinions, I'll turn to Fox, or?the mainstream media. I?used to occasionally read?Schneider for comic relief, but?no longer?as it's become?apparent that He's the joke (too bad?he's not in on it). Yep,?epic blowhard.?Sounds right. The guy would be evicted from Wilshberia. ? ???? --- On Mon, 2/20/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, February 20, 2012, 1:00 PM ? ? From: Jared Schickling Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:33 PM To: New Poetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? this dan schneider strikes me as a blowhard of epic proportions.? somewhere in there he says, see, bob you suck for talking feeling while i dan am great for talking nuts and bolts, when in actuality he's talked nothing but feeling (this sucks, that sucks, you suck, but what i think doesn't suck) while never once glancing under the hood, nor offering proof.? e.g. wcw's primary innovation of poetically "plain speech" is three percent accurate.? i'm not sure it can even be that accurate, as i'm not sure any of it is plain (lists are plain but they ain't speech, and i've never once spoken in a dropped or variable foot), and of course in mentioning that kind of "innovation" he's somehow forgotten, mmmmmm, wordsworth?? etc and et al.? this dan schneider character sounds blind and deaf to himself and others.? physically impaired.? if he is a character playing at humor only then that would be another story. ? Hey, thanks for agreeing with me about him, Jared.? I like that fact that he is willing to take on poets he doesn?t like, but . . . ? --Bob : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 21 11:42:52 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:42:52 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joe Thompson - he was 96 ! Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z9707nktsE http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/thompson.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SlSN5sROg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMAPNB2_-yw -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 21 11:24:09 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:24:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: <1329836035.26186.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1329836035.26186.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:53 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" I've never known Schneider to engage with any poet, Bob. The boast "take on" is empty. Often, when a Schneider or people like him claim to take on poets they don't like, it's almost always with the assumption that they're justified, that the poet has done something wrong. Never, am I a sloppy reader. I'm willing to trust a critic when he or she has shown me the insight that comes with scholarship. If I want dopey opinions, I'll turn to Fox, or the mainstream media. I used to occasionally read Schneider for comic relief, but no longer as it's become apparent that He's the joke (too bad he's not in on it). Yep, epic blowhard. Sounds right. The guy would be evicted from Wilshberia. You?re right, Stephen?no sense from his writings about poems that he is making a effort to engage a poem, whole-heartedly explore it, and commenting on its virtues and flaws. But he is offensive, so I forgive him. Actually, he?s as good as many mainstream critics but vapidly negative rather than vapidly positive. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 21 12:08:52 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:08:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329844132.36883.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the obssesive negativity can be fun. it appeals to the highschool kid in everyone. --- On Tue, 2/21/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 11:24 AM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:53 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" ? I've never known Schneider to engage with any poet, Bob.? The boast "take on" is empty. Often, when a Schneider or people like him claim to take on poets they don't like, it's almost always with the assumption that they're justified, that the poet has done something wrong. Never, am I a sloppy reader. I'm willing to trust a critic when he or she has shown me the insight that comes with scholarship. If I want dopey opinions, I'll turn to Fox, or the mainstream media. I used to occasionally read Schneider for comic relief, but no longer as it's become apparent that He's the joke (too bad he's not in on it). Yep, epic blowhard. Sounds right. The guy would be evicted from Wilshberia. ? You?re right, Stephen?no sense from his writings about poems that he is making a effort to engage a poem, whole-heartedly explore it, and commenting on its virtues and flaws.? But he is offensive, so I forgive him.? Actually, he?s as good as many mainstream critics but vapidly negative rather than vapidly positive. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 21 12:21:44 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:21:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Message-ID: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/new-titles/adult-announcements/article/50257-spring-2012-announcements-poetry-mid-career-triumphs.html Includes... Collected Poems by Jack Gilbert (Mar., hardcover, $35, ISBN 978-0307269683). All the poems so far from the legendary author of The Great Fires. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Wed Feb 22 12:20:03 2012 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:20:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i think bob makes a good point. there's a ton of criticism out there that goes foul in the exact same way that schneider's criticism does, namely by not engaging anything but the existence of the author's opinions. i like referring to vacuous emotion-based positive criticism as the "mfa bore-on" school of thought, which comes from that avant-pop fiction anthology of 25 or 30 years ago. it's everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, (and that damned word, "sincerity") seemingly enabled by free and easy online publishing; at least schneider reads as a kind of antiparticle in all that mess. i'm glad he and his stuff exists though i don't expect i'll ever read him again. : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:08:52 -0800 (PST) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" > Message-ID: > <1329844132.36883.YahooMailClassic at web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > the obssesive negativity can be fun. it appeals to the highschool kid in everyone. > > --- On Tue, 2/21/12, bob grumman wrote: > From: stephen russell > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:53 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" > ? > I've never known Schneider to engage with any poet, Bob.? The boast "take on" is empty. Often, when a Schneider or people like him claim to take on poets they don't like, it's almost always with the assumption that they're justified, that the poet has done something wrong. Never, am I a sloppy reader. I'm willing to trust a critic when he or she has shown me the insight that comes with scholarship. If I want dopey opinions, I'll turn to Fox, or the mainstream media. I used to occasionally read Schneider for comic relief, but no longer as it's become apparent that He's the joke (too bad he's not in on it). Yep, epic blowhard. Sounds right. The guy would be evicted from Wilshberia. > ? > You?re right, Stephen?no sense from his writings about poems that he is making a effort to engage a poem, whole-heartedly explore it, and commenting on its virtues and flaws.? But he is offensive, so I forgive him.? Actually, he?s as good as many mainstream critics but vapidly negative rather than vapidly positive. > ? > --Bob > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 22 13:50:23 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:50:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth's short reviews for March Message-ID: <8CEBFA9F7F684EE-5B8-4CAE1@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com> Seth Abramson's http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/post_2942_b_1254584.html March 2012 Contemporary Poetry Reviews Posted: 02/22/2012 1:20 pm = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Feb 22 14:23:44 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:23:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: ?1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" ?2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" ?3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" ?4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" ?5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" ?6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" ?7)? "...this masterful poet" ?8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" ?9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John Have fun! The masterful, hilarious, sexy poet of experimental subtly, JohnJ >________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:21 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 > > >http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/new-titles/adult-announcements/article/50257-spring-2012-announcements-poetry-mid-career-triumphs.html > >Includes... >Collected Poems by Jack Gilbert (Mar., hardcover, $35, ISBN 978-0307269683). All the poems so far from the legendary author of The Great Fires. > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 22 15:19:16 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:19:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEBFB661B4BB2D-1CD8-50070@webmail-d086.sysops.aol.com> I think the hyperbole comes from the fact that Publishers Weekly probably writes copy (or cuts & pastes directly) from the publishing house's promotional package. Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 2:53 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of. Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of poetry]" 3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4) "...a master of experimental poetry" 5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7) "...this masterful poet" 8) "...a poet of wild imagination" 9) "...a powerful poet" 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" a) Paige Ackerson-Kiely b) Dana Gioia c) Paul Hoover d) Eileen Myles e) D. Nurkse f) Rowan Ricardo Phillips g) D.A. Powell h) Kenneth Rexroth i) Michael Robbins j) Michael Ryan k) W.G. Sebald l) David St. John Have fun! The masterful, hilarious, sexy poet of experimental subtly, JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/new-titles/adult-announcements/article/50257-spring-2012-announcements-poetry-mid-career-triumphs.html Includes... Collected Poems by Jack Gilbert (Mar., hardcover, $35, ISBN 978-0307269683). All the poems so far from the legendary author of The Great Fires. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 22 15:20:08 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 12:20:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1329942008.95101.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> right ... as an antidote to the " vacuous emotion-based positive criticism." I trivialized Bob's point. --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jared Schickling wrote: From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA To: "New Poetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 12:20 PM i think bob makes a good point.? there's a ton of criticism out there that goes foul in the exact same way that schneider's criticism does, namely by not engaging anything but the existence of the author's opinions.? i like referring to vacuous emotion-based positive criticism as the "mfa bore-on" school of thought, which comes from that avant-pop fiction anthology of 25 or 30 years ago.? it's everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, (and that damned word, "sincerity") seemingly enabled by free and easy online publishing; at least schneider reads as a kind of antiparticle in all that mess.? i'm glad he and his stuff exists though i don't expect i'll ever read him again. ?? : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:08:52 -0800 (PST) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" > Message-ID: > <1329844132.36883.YahooMailClassic at web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > the obssesive negativity can be fun. it appeals to the highschool kid in everyone. > > --- On Tue, 2/21/12, bob grumman wrote: > From: stephen russell > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:53 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] An old sonnet - THE "DATA" > ? > I've never known Schneider to engage with any poet, Bob.? The boast "take on" is empty. Often, when a Schneider or people like him claim to take on poets they don't like, it's almost always with the assumption that they're justified, that the poet has done something wrong. Never, am I a sloppy reader. I'm willing to trust a critic when he or she has shown me the insight that comes with scholarship. If I want dopey opinions, I'll turn to Fox, or the mainstream media. I used to occasionally read Schneider for comic relief, but no longer as it's become apparent that He's the joke (too bad he's not in on it). Yep, epic blowhard. Sounds right. The guy would be evicted from Wilshberia. > ? > You?re right, Stephen?no sense from his writings about poems that he is making a effort to engage a poem, whole-heartedly explore it, and commenting on its virtues and flaws.? But he is offensive, so I forgive him.? Actually, he?s as good as many mainstream critics but vapidly negative rather than vapidly positive. > ? > --Bob > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 22 18:03:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:03:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7E3EACF89933418B9FFE3FC8B964B1AE@BobHP> From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of. Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of poetry]" 3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4) "...a master of experimental poetry" 5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7) "...this masterful poet" 8) "...a poet of wild imagination" 9) "...a powerful poet" 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" a) Paige Ackerson-Kiely b) Dana Gioia c) Paul Hoover d) Eileen Myles e) D. Nurkse f) Rowan Ricardo Phillips g) D.A. Powell h) Kenneth Rexroth i) Michael Robbins j) Michael Ryan k) W.G. Sebald l) David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you? Just curious. I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f. The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them. I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia. I said 8, and started laughing. My real guess is 1. Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown. Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him. I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 20:04:21 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:04:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <7E3EACF89933418B9FFE3FC8B964B1AE@BobHP> References: <8CEBED46B28DFEF-108C-45F8A@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> <1329938624.38173.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <7E3EACF89933418B9FFE3FC8B964B1AE@BobHP> Message-ID: I've heard of them all except (f). On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:03 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* John Jeffrey > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 > > Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" > Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," > "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of. Let's > see if we can match the description with the poets: > > 1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" > 2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of poetry]" > 3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" > 4) "...a master of experimental poetry" > 5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" > 6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" > 7) "...this masterful poet" > 8) "...a poet of wild imagination" > 9) "...a powerful poet" > 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" > 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" > 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" > > a) Paige Ackerson-Kiely > b) Dana Gioia > c) Paul Hoover > d) Eileen Myles > e) D. Nurkse > f) Rowan Ricardo Phillips > g) D.A. Powell > h) Kenneth Rexroth > i) Michael Robbins > j) Michael Ryan > k) W.G. Sebald > l) David St. John > > How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you? Just > curious. I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve > heard of d, and never heard of a or f. The rest of the names seem vaguely > familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them. I > m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what > description goes with Gioia. I said 8, and started laughing. My real > guess is 1. Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown. Since > then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him. I *would* be interested to > know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 20:06:21 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:06:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth's short reviews for March In-Reply-To: <8CEBFA9F7F684EE-5B8-4CAE1@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEBFA9F7F684EE-5B8-4CAE1@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yawn. Seth is about as astute a poetry critic as Anis Shivani. And they both write for Huffpo. What's the deal? T On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:50 AM, wrote: > Seth Abramson's > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/post_2942_b_1254584.html > > March 2012 Contemporary Poetry Reviews > Posted: 02/22/2012 1:20 pm > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 09:33:13 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:33:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <7E3EACF89933418B9FFE3FC8B964B1AE@BobHP> Message-ID: <1330007593.23995.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 23 09:34:30 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:34:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Blue Flower Arts Featured Readings at AWP In-Reply-To: <1329957108.54622.YahooMailNeo@web162306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1109253077421.1101475744847.5196.6.48143002@scheduler> <1329957108.54622.YahooMailNeo@web162306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEC04F63378DFA-1D44-4D014@webmail-d085.sysops.aol.com> Having trouble viewing this email?Click here BLUE FLOWER ARTS AT AWP CHICAGO FEBRUARY 29-MARCH 3, 2012 FEATURED READINGS & BOOK SIGNINGS VISIT US AT BOOTH # 400, HILTON CHICAGO Blue Flower Arts is proud to be a Literary Partner at the 2012 AWP Conference. Please scroll down for details about our Featured Readings and Book Signings. Stop by Booth #400 to say hello! Alison & Ofer Thursday, March 1 ? 3:00-4:15 PM BFA Poetry Reading & Performance: Page Meets Stage Taylor Mali ? Roger Bonair-Agard ? Mark Doty ? Marilyn Nelson ? Molly Peacock Hilton Chicago Grand Ballroom Friday, March 2 ? 8:30 PM AWP Featured Reading: Poets Laureate of US & UK Philip Levine & Carol Ann Duffy International Ballroom, Chicago Hilton Sponsored by The Poetry Foundation in association with Blue Flower Arts Friday, March 2 ? 11:00 PM Special Off-Site Film Screening: Being Flynn Preceded by a brief conversation between Nick Flynn & Stephen Elliot of the Rumpus Sponsored by Blue Flower Arts, The Rumpus, W. W. Norton, and Focus Features ShowPlace ICON Theatre, 150 West Roosevelt Road, Chicago For AWP Attendees only Order Your Free Tickets Saturday, March 3 ? 12:00-1:15 PM BFA Fiction Reading: Charting Unmarked Terrain Jimmy Santiago Baca ? Linda Hogan ? Pam Houston ? Mat Johnson Hilton Chicago Grand Ballroom Bring-Your-Own-Book Book Signing?Booth #400 * Please bring your own books for the signing. We will not be selling books at our booth. Friday, March 2 ? 3:30 PM Saturday, March 3 ? 10:00 AM Bonnie Jo Campbell Jimmy Santiago Baca Philip Levine Carol Ann Duffy Visit the Blue Flower Arts website to view our full roster of acclaimed poets, authors, filmmakers, and speakers. We look forward to hearing from you, and welcome the opportunity to work together! Alison Granucci Blue Flower Arts PO Box 1361 Millbrook, New York 12545 845-677-8559 alison at blueflowerarts.com Forward email This email was sent to billoconnell at rocketmail.com by alison at blueflowerarts.com | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. Blue Flower Arts | PO Box 1361 | Millbrook | NY | 12545 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 09:39:02 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:39:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330007593.23995.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330007942.10066.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> N 12 ...?who's the "sexy and searing poet?" ? New catagory: most sexy & searing Dead White European Male. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 09:51:15 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:51:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330007942.10066.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330008675.50769.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Perhaps Ted's sexiest poem: ? A Birthday Poem ? Just past dawn, the sun stands with its heavy red head in a black stanchion of trees, waiting for someone to come with his bucket for the foamy white light, and then a long day in the pasture. I too spend my days grazing, feasting on every green moment till darkness calls, and with the others I walk away into the night, swinging the little tin bell of my name. ? ****************************************** --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:39 AM N 12 ...?who's the "sexy and searing poet?" ? New catagory: most sexy & searing Dead White European Male. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 09:54:04 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330008675.50769.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330008844.20970.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> did i mention my nominee for "sexy & searing?" ? Ted Kooser --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:51 AM Perhaps Ted's sexiest poem: ? A Birthday Poem ? Just past dawn, the sun stands with its heavy red head in a black stanchion of trees, waiting for someone to come with his bucket for the foamy white light, and then a long day in the pasture. I too spend my days grazing, feasting on every green moment till darkness calls, and with the others I walk away into the night, swinging the little tin bell of my name. ? ****************************************** --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:39 AM N 12 ...?who's the "sexy and searing poet?" ? New catagory: most sexy & searing Dead White European Male. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 10:07:47 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:07:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330008844.20970.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330008675.50769.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1330008844.20970.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330009667.50895.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> You named your new category: "Most sexy & searing Dead White European Male." I think Kooser, feet planted firmly in Nebraska, would be surprised at begin called European.? And dead. --JohnJ >________________________________ > From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:54 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 > > >did i mention my nominee for "sexy & searing?" >? >Ted Kooser > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 10:14:39 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:14:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330008844.20970.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330010079.22152.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> it was a close call. Ted Kooser?vs. Erica Jong (though Erica hasn't written any horny poetry in years, not?since her Fear of Flying). still, Ted is way sexy. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:54 AM did i mention my nominee for "sexy & searing?" ? Ted Kooser --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:51 AM Perhaps Ted's sexiest poem: ? A Birthday Poem ? Just past dawn, the sun stands with its heavy red head in a black stanchion of trees, waiting for someone to come with his bucket for the foamy white light, and then a long day in the pasture. I too spend my days grazing, feasting on every green moment till darkness calls, and with the others I walk away into the night, swinging the little tin bell of my name. ? ****************************************** --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:39 AM N 12 ...?who's the "sexy and searing poet?" ? New catagory: most sexy & searing Dead White European Male. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 10:35:17 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:35:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Message-ID: <1330011317.64592.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> no. I didn't mean to put Kooser in that catagory. He's certaintly among the living. &, of course, I'm being flippant. The thought of a choosing someone as sexy/searing is hard to take seriously. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 10:07 AM You named your new category: "Most sexy & searing Dead White European Male." I think Kooser, feet planted firmly in Nebraska, would be surprised at begin called European.? And dead. --JohnJ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 did i mention my nominee for "sexy & searing?" ? Ted Kooser -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 23 11:32:16 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:32:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330008675.50769.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330008675.50769.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <277AF7F0B13A4AD2A6772E687609B2F4@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:51 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Perhaps Ted's sexiest poem: A Birthday Poem Just past dawn, the sun stands with its heavy red head in a black stanchion of trees, waiting for someone to come with his bucket for the foamy white light, and then a long day in the pasture. I too spend my days grazing, feasting on every green moment till darkness calls, and with the others I walk away into the night, swinging the little tin bell of my name. ****************************************** I love the astericks, but I suspect they aren?t his. As you would guess, I?m not a Mark Strand fan. I think I have a different idea of what imagination is than you. Actually, I?m not really sure what I mean by it. . . . Too lazy to try to decide. Thanks for saying who Ted is?I didn?t know. The only Ted I could think of was Roethke and he was never called Ted that I know of, and that was not a Roethke poem as far as I could tell. Nothing against lyric pets?that?s all I ever try to be. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrys.alpert at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 13:33:45 2012 From: barrys.alpert at gmail.com (Barry Alpert) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:33:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Message-ID: "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles, Hoa Nguyen, Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 13:46:00 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:46:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330022760.42293.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 13:49:38 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:49:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 Message-ID: <1330022978.65786.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> but what is imaginative? there are so many ways to be imaginative ... most imaginative? ... another poor formulation ... accountants are probably the "most imaginative" people working today. Deviously imaginative. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 13:51:08 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330022978.65786.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330023068.47109.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> or is it "wild imagination?" Still, define imaginative. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:49 PM but what is imaginative? there are so many ways to be imaginative ... most imaginative? ... another poor formulation ... accountants are probably the "most imaginative" people working today. Deviously imaginative. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 14:30:14 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:30:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330023068.47109.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?these are glib ... & i've been guilty of using 1 or 2 of these phrases, especially "a powerful poet". ... how to pretend you're saying something when you're saying nothing ... politicians can learn from bad critics. 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:51 PM or is it "wild imagination?" Still, define imaginative. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:49 PM but what is imaginative? there are so many ways to be imaginative ... most imaginative? ... another poor formulation ... accountants are probably the "most imaginative" people working today. Deviously imaginative. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 9:33 AM Sebald is German, was considered by many to be a likely candidate for the Nobel. The poet of "wild imagination" would not include anyone on the list if it were my list. ?If it were my list, the imaginative guy would be Russell Edson, although, and you may hate this Bob, but Mark Strand is pretty imaginative, too, despite the fact that he's a child of Harold Bloom. ? David St. John is a very good lyrical poet, and, as we all?know, almost everyone in mainstream poetry is a lyrical poet of one sort or another. Michael Ryan wrote something called God Hunger, I think. Apparently he's a recovering sex addict (ain't that a shame). Ellen Myles is?a very well known post beat (a bad characterization, but can't think of anything else) poet who recently wrote a post beat novel. As for the rest of those guys ... beats me ... --- On Wed, 2/22/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 6:03 PM ? ? From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 ? Reading through this article, even disregarding "the legendary author" Jack Gilbert, I was amazed at all the other "legendary," "great," "powerful," "master" poets out there--some I've never even heard of.? Let's see if we can match the description with the poets: 1)? "...a legendary force in American poetry" 2)? "...this now-legendary novelist [who has written a book of? poetry]" 3)? "...a savage and hilarious poet" 4)? "...a master of experimental poetry" 5)? "...one of America?s greatest poets" 6)? "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" 7)? "...this masterful poet" 8)? "...a poet of wild imagination" 9)? "...a powerful poet" 10)? "...one of America?s most well-known poets" 11)? "...a powerfully original poetic voice" 12)? "...a sexy and searing poet" a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely b)? Dana Gioia c)? Paul Hoover d)? Eileen Myles e)? D. Nurkse f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips g)? D.A. Powell h)? Kenneth Rexroth i)?? Michael Robbins j)?? Michael Ryan k)? W.G. Sebald l)?? David St. John How familiar are the names of the above to the rest of you?? Just curious.? I?ve definitely heard of b, c and h, and am pretty sure I?ve heard of d, and never heard of a or f.? The rest of the names seem vaguely familiar to me, but I can?t quite place them.? I m afraid I?m not up to reading the article, but I?m curious what description goes with Gioia.? I said 8, and started laughing.? My real guess is 1.? Before he chaired the NEA, Shakespeare was unknown.? Since then we?ve had two bigtime movies about him.? I would be interested to know which poet is ?a poet of wild imagination.? ? --Bob ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 23 14:38:27 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:38:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: stephen russell Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:30 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 these are glib ... & i've been guilty of using 1 or 2 of these phrases, especially "a powerful poet". Maybe they?re a bit silly but no real problem if supported. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 16:03:36 2012 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:03:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed In-Reply-To: <1330022760.42293.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330031016.24785.YahooMailClassic@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Catherina Behan gets my vote!!! ;-D http://www.facebook.com/pages/Catherina-Behan-Poet/171285316238029 Go google her (Id love ta, but she prefers the ladies. Could I seduce her if dressed in drag? rotfl!!!) "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 18:46 that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 16:16:25 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:16:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Message-ID: <1330031785.41271.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Any relation to Brendan Behan of Borstal Boy fame? --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:03 PM Catherina Behan gets my vote!!! ;-D http://www.facebook.com/pages/Catherina-Behan-Poet/171285316238029 Go google her (Id love ta, but she prefers the ladies. Could I seduce her if dressed in drag? rotfl!!!) "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 18:46 that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 16:23:11 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:23:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: References: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330032191.3911.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'm with you Bob. I don't recognize many of these names. Then again, I can barely suffer reading much of contemporary poetry, especially the powerful searing legendary stuff. I get a few lines in and my mind starts wandering to things like, Where's the guitar? What's on TV? Are there any pretzels left? --JohnJ ?1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" = Eileen Myles ?2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has now written a book of? poetry]" = W.G. Sebald ?3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" = Michael Robbins ?4) "...a master of experimental poetry" = Paul Hoover ?5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" = Kenneth Rexroth ?6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" = D. Nurkse ?7) "...this masterful poet" = Michael Ryan ?8) "...a poet of wild imagination" = David St. John ?9) "...a powerful poet" = D.A. Powell 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" = Dana Gioia 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" = Rowan Ricardo Phillips 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" = Paige Ackerson-Kiely Here are the whole quotes, such as they are. As James said, they're probably publisher hype. a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely - "A second collection by a sexy and searing poet equally adept at free verse and prose poems." b)? Dana Gioia - "The long-awaited fourth collection by one of America?s most well-known poets and critics." c)? Paul Hoover - "This new collection by a master of experimental poetry contains two long poems that interrogate the nature of logic and the nearness of death." d)? Eileen Myles - "These new poems from a legendary force in American poetry explore the past and present through the lens of this poet?s American experience." e)? D. Nurkse - "New poems from a poet of great reflection and subtlety." f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips - "A debut from a powerfully original poetic voice." g)? D.A. Powell - "New poetry by a powerful poet who mixes high and low culture in poems that seek to triumph over aging and disease." h)? Kenneth Rexroth - "Nature writings by one of America?s greatest poets, written out of a deep experience of the Sierras." i)?? Michael Robbins - "This is the debut collection from a savage and hilarious poet." j)?? Michael Ryan - "Pulling from the ancient powers of story and song, this masterful poet delivers a collection that is at times dark, funny, and absurd." k)? W.G. Sebald - "The first career-spanning poetry collection in English by this now-legendary novelist." l)?? David St. John - "A long-awaited collection from this National Book Award Finalist, a poet of wild imagination." You want the titles, you have to read the article. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 16:33:36 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:33:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers Message-ID: <1330032816.17222.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> sorry to keep chiming in ... but a powerfully original poetic voice is so vapid ... i'm guilty of recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. Look at the latest add copy on the movie page of any newspaper. Compare that to the comments made by poetry critics. The movie guys might as well review poetry. & the other way around. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:23 PM I'm with you Bob. I don't recognize many of these names. Then again, I can barely suffer reading much of contemporary poetry, especially the powerful searing legendary stuff. I get a few lines in and my mind starts wandering to things like, Where's the guitar? What's on TV? Are there any pretzels left? --JohnJ ?1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" = Eileen Myles ?2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has now written a book of? poetry]" = W.G. Sebald ?3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" = Michael Robbins ?4) "...a master of experimental poetry" = Paul Hoover ?5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" = Kenneth Rexroth ?6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" = D. Nurkse ?7) "...this masterful poet" = Michael Ryan ?8) "...a poet of wild imagination" = David St. John ?9) "...a powerful poet" = D.A. Powell 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" = Dana Gioia 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" = Rowan Ricardo Phillips 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" = Paige Ackerson-Kiely Here are the whole quotes, such as they are. As James said, they're probably publisher hype. a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely - "A second collection by a sexy and searing poet equally adept at free verse and prose poems." b)? Dana Gioia - "The long-awaited fourth collection by one of America?s most well-known poets and critics." c)? Paul Hoover - "This new collection by a master of experimental poetry contains two long poems that interrogate the nature of logic and the nearness of death." d)? Eileen Myles - "These new poems from a legendary force in American poetry explore the past and present through the lens of this poet?s American experience." e)? D. Nurkse - "New poems from a poet of great reflection and subtlety." f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips - "A debut from a powerfully original poetic voice." g)? D.A. Powell - "New poetry by a powerful poet who mixes high and low culture in poems that seek to triumph over aging and disease." h)? Kenneth Rexroth - "Nature writings by one of America?s greatest poets, written out of a deep experience of the Sierras." i)?? Michael Robbins - "This is the debut collection from a savage and hilarious poet." j)?? Michael Ryan - "Pulling from the ancient powers of story and song, this masterful poet delivers a collection that is at times dark, funny, and absurd." k)? W.G. Sebald - "The first career-spanning poetry collection in English by this now-legendary novelist." l)?? David St. John - "A long-awaited collection from this National Book Award Finalist, a poet of wild imagination." You want the titles, you have to read the article. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 16:37:22 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:37:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <1330032816.17222.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330033042.50982.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> which is why lots of people end up with a crime novel. They deliver the goods. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:33 PM sorry to keep chiming in ... but a powerfully original poetic voice is so vapid ... i'm guilty of recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. Look at the latest add copy on the movie page of any newspaper. Compare that to the comments made by poetry critics. The movie guys might as well review poetry. & the other way around. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:23 PM I'm with you Bob. I don't recognize many of these names. Then again, I can barely suffer reading much of contemporary poetry, especially the powerful searing legendary stuff. I get a few lines in and my mind starts wandering to things like, Where's the guitar? What's on TV? Are there any pretzels left? --JohnJ ?1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" = Eileen Myles ?2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has now written a book of? poetry]" = W.G. Sebald ?3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" = Michael Robbins ?4) "...a master of experimental poetry" = Paul Hoover ?5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" = Kenneth Rexroth ?6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" = D. Nurkse ?7) "...this masterful poet" = Michael Ryan ?8) "...a poet of wild imagination" = David St. John ?9) "...a powerful poet" = D.A. Powell 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" = Dana Gioia 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" = Rowan Ricardo Phillips 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" = Paige Ackerson-Kiely Here are the whole quotes, such as they are. As James said, they're probably publisher hype. a)? Paige Ackerson-Kiely - "A second collection by a sexy and searing poet equally adept at free verse and prose poems." b)? Dana Gioia - "The long-awaited fourth collection by one of America?s most well-known poets and critics." c)? Paul Hoover - "This new collection by a master of experimental poetry contains two long poems that interrogate the nature of logic and the nearness of death." d)? Eileen Myles - "These new poems from a legendary force in American poetry explore the past and present through the lens of this poet?s American experience." e)? D. Nurkse - "New poems from a poet of great reflection and subtlety." f)?? Rowan Ricardo Phillips - "A debut from a powerfully original poetic voice." g)? D.A. Powell - "New poetry by a powerful poet who mixes high and low culture in poems that seek to triumph over aging and disease." h)? Kenneth Rexroth - "Nature writings by one of America?s greatest poets, written out of a deep experience of the Sierras." i)?? Michael Robbins - "This is the debut collection from a savage and hilarious poet." j)?? Michael Ryan - "Pulling from the ancient powers of story and song, this masterful poet delivers a collection that is at times dark, funny, and absurd." k)? W.G. Sebald - "The first career-spanning poetry collection in English by this now-legendary novelist." l)?? David St. John - "A long-awaited collection from this National Book Award Finalist, a poet of wild imagination." You want the titles, you have to read the article. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 23 17:10:29 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:10:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <1330032191.3911.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1330032191.3911.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <24296DB1435D495AB2606E1AABBA89D2@BobHP> From: John Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers I'm with you Bob. I don't recognize many of these names. Then again, I can barely suffer reading much of contemporary poetry, especially the powerful searing legendary stuff. I get a few lines in and my mind starts wandering to things like, Where's the guitar? What's on TV? Are there any pretzels left? --JohnJ Thanks for the extra data, John. I would have guessed conventional language poet Hoover for the ?master of experimental poetry? tag, but got sidetracked into thinking maybe one of the ones named might actually be ?experimental.? 1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" = Eileen Myles 2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has now written a book of poetry]" = W.G. Sebald 3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" = Michael Robbins 4) "...a master of experimental poetry" = Paul Hoover 5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" = Kenneth Rexroth 6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" = D. Nurkse 7) "...this masterful poet" = Michael Ryan 8) "...a poet of wild imagination" = David St. John 9) "...a powerful poet" = D.A. Powell 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" = Dana Gioia 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" = Rowan Ricardo Phillips 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" = Paige Ackerson-Kiely Here are the whole quotes, such as they are. As James said, they're probably publisher hype. a) Paige Ackerson-Kiely - "A second collection by a sexy and searing poet equally adept at free verse and prose poems." b) Dana Gioia - "The long-awaited fourth collection by one of America?s most well-known poets and critics." c) Paul Hoover - "This new collection by a master of experimental poetry contains two long poems that interrogate the nature of logic and the nearness of death." d) Eileen Myles - "These new poems from a legendary force in American poetry explore the past and present through the lens of this poet?s American experience." e) D. Nurkse - "New poems from a poet of great reflection and subtlety." f) Rowan Ricardo Phillips - "A debut from a powerfully original poetic voice." g) D.A. Powell - "New poetry by a powerful poet who mixes high and low culture in poems that seek to triumph over aging and disease." h) Kenneth Rexroth - "Nature writings by one of America?s greatest poets, written out of a deep experience of the Sierras." i) Michael Robbins - "This is the debut collection from a savage and hilarious poet." j) Michael Ryan - "Pulling from the ancient powers of story and song, this masterful poet delivers a collection that is at times dark, funny, and absurd." k) W.G. Sebald - "The first career-spanning poetry collection in English by this now-legendary novelist." l) David St. John - "A long-awaited collection from this National Book Award Finalist, a poet of wild imagination." You want the titles, you have to read the article. Aw, come on, John! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Feb 23 17:06:45 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:06:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <1330032816.17222.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330032816.17222.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5926188B8A144E94BED53C4601D270F9@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:33 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers sorry to keep chiming in ... You should be, Stephen. Read, don?t participate. but a powerfully original poetic voice is so vapid ... i'm guilty of recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. It?s the voice that?s original and powerful, not the poetry. Unfortunately about the only thing most known critics are interested in. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 17:15:22 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:15:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New work up at On Barcelona Message-ID: :: Always new work up at On Barcelona. If you have work to share, send it to me at halvard at gmail.com. http://onbarcelona.blogspot.com/ Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antrobin at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 17:51:46 2012 From: antrobin at gmail.com (Anthony Robinson) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:51:46 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <5926188B8A144E94BED53C4601D270F9@BobHP> References: <1330032816.17222.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5926188B8A144E94BED53C4601D270F9@BobHP> Message-ID: Get off my lawn! Everything new is shit! Hand me my cane, sonny. T- On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:06 PM, bob grumman wrote: > > > *From:* stephen russell > *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:33 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers > > sorry to keep chiming in ... > > You should be, Stephen. Read, don?t participate. > > but *a powerfully original poetic voice *is so vapid ... i'm guilty of > recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. > It?s the voice that?s original and powerful, not the poetry. > Unfortunately about the only thing most known critics are interested in. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 18:21:50 2012 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:21:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed In-Reply-To: <1330031785.41271.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330039310.96708.YahooMailClassic@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I dont think so. Shes from Kerry - to spite the elecution induced Dublin 4 accent - and her grandfather died in the Irish Civil War fighting on the Free State side. Hes referenced in her LGBT poem " 'Pride and Patriotism'". Tom?s "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 21:16 Any relation to Brendan Behan of Borstal Boy fame? --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:03 PM Catherina Behan gets my vote!!! ;-D http://www.facebook.com/pages/Catherina-Behan-Poet/171285316238029 Go google her (Id love ta, but she prefers the ladies. Could I seduce her if dressed in drag? rotfl!!!) "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 18:46 that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 23 18:59:02 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:59:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <24296DB1435D495AB2606E1AABBA89D2@BobHP> References: <1330025414.31827.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1330032191.3911.YahooMailNeo@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <24296DB1435D495AB2606E1AABBA89D2@BobHP> Message-ID: <8CEC09E4041EA50-984-2B57@webmail-d177.sysops.aol.com> Only a couple names were not well known to me...the last two. You sound very down on poetry, John. These are best of times, the worst of times (for poetry)...as it always has been. Poetry has been a great enrichment to my life. TV, not so much. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bob grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 5:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers From: John Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:23 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers I'm with you Bob. I don't recognize many of these names. Then again, I can barely suffer reading much of contemporary poetry, especially the powerful searing legendary stuff. I get a few lines in and my mind starts wandering to things like, Where's the guitar? What's on TV? Are there any pretzels left? --JohnJ Thanks for the extra data, John. I would have guessed conventional language poet Hoover for the ?master of experimental poetry? tag, but got sidetracked into thinking maybe one of the ones named might actually be ?experimental.? 1) "...a legendary force in American poetry" = Eileen Myles 2) "...this now-legendary novelist [who has now written a book of poetry]" = W.G. Sebald 3) "...a savage and hilarious poet" = Michael Robbins 4) "...a master of experimental poetry" = Paul Hoover 5) "...one of America?s greatest poets" = Kenneth Rexroth 6) "...a poet of great reflection and subtlety" = D. Nurkse 7) "...this masterful poet" = Michael Ryan 8) "...a poet of wild imagination" = David St. John 9) "...a powerful poet" = D.A. Powell 10) "...one of America?s most well-known poets" = Dana Gioia 11) "...a powerfully original poetic voice" = Rowan Ricardo Phillips 12) "...a sexy and searing poet" = Paige Ackerson-Kiely Here are the whole quotes, such as they are. As James said, they're probably publisher hype. a) Paige Ackerson-Kiely - "A second collection by a sexy and searing poet equally adept at free verse and prose poems." b) Dana Gioia - "The long-awaited fourth collection by one of America?s most well-known poets and critics." c) Paul Hoover - "This new collection by a master of experimental poetry contains two long poems that interrogate the nature of logic and the nearness of death." d) Eileen Myles - "These new poems from a legendary force in American poetry explore the past and present through the lens of this poet?s American experience." e) D. Nurkse - "New poems from a poet of great reflection and subtlety." f) Rowan Ricardo Phillips - "A debut from a powerfully original poetic voice." g) D.A. Powell - "New poetry by a powerful poet who mixes high and low culture in poems that seek to triumph over aging and disease." h) Kenneth Rexroth - "Nature writings by one of America?s greatest poets, written out of a deep experience of the Sierras." i) Michael Robbins - "This is the debut collection from a savage and hilarious poet." j) Michael Ryan - "Pulling from the ancient powers of story and song, this masterful poet delivers a collection that is at times dark, funny, and absurd." k) W.G. Sebald - "The first career-spanning poetry collection in English by this now-legendary novelist." l) David St. John - "A long-awaited collection from this National Book Award Finalist, a poet of wild imagination." You want the titles, you have to read the article. Aw, come on, John! --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 23 20:25:53 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 20:25:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues Message-ID: <8CEC0AA62638138-1258-565B6@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really)at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead thediscussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then heintroduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: A Bed for the Night I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the smallgroup of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from thepoem, how the poem made us feel, etc. Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Askingquestions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. Andso it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into questionany simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutionsto the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Feb 23 21:10:44 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:10:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Wallace Stevens Walk in The New York Times Travel section In-Reply-To: <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC07AA0B024B4-145C-1BDEB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> Article (link below) that will be in The New York Times Travel section this week. (The writer quoted one of the less brilliant I'd said that day we met and did the walk...But it's a good article about the Wallace Stevens Walk and Hartford's literary side.) Finnegan -----Original Message----- http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/travel/for-the-poet-wallace-stevens-hartford-was-an-unlikely-muse.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 23 23:00:24 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:00:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <8CEC0AA62638138-1258-565B6@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC0AA62638138-1258-565B6@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9139AC6F-F991-4F59-B89A-59FCF4C1DE4B@mikesnider.org> I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called > Civic Reflection Through Poetry? > http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 > > Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: > > A Bed for the Night > > > I hear that in New York > At the corner of 26th and Broadway > A man stands every evening during the winter months > And gets beds for the homeless there > By appealing to passers-by. > > It won?t change the world > It won?t improve relations among men > It will not shorten the age of exploitation > But a few men have a bed for the night > For a night the wind is kept from them > The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. > > Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. > > A few people have a bed for the night > For a night the wind is kept from them > The snow meant for them falls on the roadway > But it won?t change the world > It won?t improve relations among men > It will not shorten the age of exploitation. > > -- > After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. > > Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. > > Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. > > Finnegan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Feb 23 23:03:03 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:03:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiskey Bar = Alabama Song Message-ID: <7C890DB2-10C6-44AE-9D51-501C2A66C621@mikesnider.org> That's the actual title. www.mikesnider.org From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Fri Feb 24 04:19:56 2012 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:19:56 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Wallace Stevens Walk in The New York Times Travel section In-Reply-To: <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC07AA0B024B4-145C-1BDEB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: congrats Jim! this is lovely. c On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 2:10 AM, wrote: > > Article (link below) that will be in The New York Times Travel section this > week. (The writer quoted one of the less brilliant I'd said that day we met > and did the walk...But it's a good article about the Wallace Stevens Walk > and Hartford's literary side.) > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > > http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/travel/for-the-poet-wallace-stevens-hartford-was-an-unlikely-muse.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Connie Voisine Associate Professor of English New Mexico State University cvoisine at nmsu.edu 575-646-2027 From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 09:24:00 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:24:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues Message-ID: <1330093440.34242.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The last stanza and the second stanza, the repetition --? could be a sestina. Grippe might consider doing something with the Occupied movement. They're still strong, evicted, but not vanished. ? Technique is important. But vision is equally important. ? & speaking of vision, I love this poem: ? ? HOMELESS OUTSIDE THE CHURCH ? Tall shadows, bent in places, cover and uncover me Gesticulating strangers crowd the entryway Where I am planted like a crop growing human feelings ? The marquee on the church says: Blessed Are The Meek But the religious who weep, who enter Turn their heads to profiles as they pass ? I am tarnished by the sun, weathered over On this particular Tuesday, April and The rank smell of humanity fills me ? Sounds from the choir leak through to the street But their songs do not touch me, Not even in the barefoot places ? Only the occasional kindness of a stranger, The curve of his back, a slope rushing past me, Is luminous, the coin pressed in my hand? ? And yes, I beg ? I open my palm As Jesus did ? ? ??????????? X ? The Sisters of the church arm in arm, Covered with the black protection, ??????????? ???????? smile as they leave, Welded in belief and the repeatable ??????????? ??????????? I am shamed by my separated Spirit ? ??????????? X ? I press myself deeper Into the mute tulips This bedspread where I lay my head at dusk ? Clouds threaten to stroke me with pneumonia But I welcome the thought of the hospital cot The boldness of death, yes, I welcome it ? The skyline stretches itself out like a lie The city darkens into twinkling lights I rest my face in the gentle, gentle ??????????? ??????????? ?rain ? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????? Bobbi Lurie ? --- On Thu, 2/23/12, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 8:25 PM I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 09:33:01 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:33:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed In-Reply-To: <1330039310.96708.YahooMailClassic@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330093981.10600.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Oh well. I still say that?Sinead O' Conner is as good as Patti Smith. No. I still say that Sinead O' Conner is better than Patti Smith. That's what I say. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 6:21 PM I dont think so. Shes from Kerry - to spite the elecution induced Dublin 4 accent - and her grandfather died in the Irish Civil War fighting on the Free State side. Hes referenced in her LGBT poem " 'Pride and Patriotism'". Tom?s "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos ? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 21:16 Any relation to Brendan Behan of Borstal Boy fame? --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:03 PM Catherina Behan gets my vote!!! ;-D http://www.facebook.com/pages/Catherina-Behan-Poet/171285316238029 Go google her (Id love ta, but she prefers the ladies. Could I seduce her if dressed in drag? rotfl!!!) "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos ? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 18:46 that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 09:47:35 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:47:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed In-Reply-To: <1330093981.10600.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330094855.60169.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> moreover -- ? Briefly Said ? ? I still say that Sinead O' Conner is as good as Patti Smith. I still say that Sinead O' Conner is as good as Patti Smith. ? Then I say that Sinead O' Conner is better than Patti Smith. Then I say that Sinead O' Conner is better than Patti Smith. ? Do you agree with me? Do you? ? Once I say what I say I'll say it one more time to see If anyone is listening. ? Once I say what I say I'll say it one more time to see If anyone is listening. ? Once I've said what I've said I've said all that needs to be said. Once I've said what I've said I've said all that needs to be said. ? I've said enough already don't you think? I think ? I want To talk about Sinead O' Conner and Patti Smith. ? Is that O.K. with you? --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 9:33 AM Oh well. I still say that?Sinead O' Conner is as good as Patti Smith. No. I still say that Sinead O' Conner is better than Patti Smith. That's what I say. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 6:21 PM I dont think so. Shes from Kerry - to spite the elecution induced Dublin 4 accent - and her grandfather died in the Irish Civil War fighting on the Free State side. Hes referenced in her LGBT poem " 'Pride and Patriotism'". Tom?s "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos ? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 21:16 Any relation to Brendan Behan of Borstal Boy fame? --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Tom?s ? C?rthaigh wrote: From: Tom?s ? C?rthaigh Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 4:03 PM Catherina Behan gets my vote!!! ;-D http://www.facebook.com/pages/Catherina-Behan-Poet/171285316238029 Go google her (Id love ta, but she prefers the ladies. Could I seduce her if dressed in drag? rotfl!!!) "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos ? ? --- On Thu, 23/2/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, 23 February, 2012, 18:46 that is a good list ... Heather Fuller & so on ... --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Barry Alpert wrote: From: Barry Alpert Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: "Barry Alpert" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 1:33 PM "Sexy & Searing Poets" I've Witnessed Denise Levertov, Joanne Kyger, Anne Waldman, Patti Smith, Eileen Myles,?Hoa?Nguyen,?Jorie Graham, Carolyn Forche, Jennifer Dunbar Dorn, Johanna Drucker, Heather Fuller, Kaia Sand, Mary Hilton, & . . . Ed Dorn, Amiri Baraka, Robert Creeley, John Cage, Gus Blaisdell, Michael McClure, Michael Palmer, Stephen Rodefer, Christopher Dewdney, Christian Bok, Keston Sutherland, & . . . Barry S. Alpert http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=17 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 10:09:57 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:09:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <9139AC6F-F991-4F59-B89A-59FCF4C1DE4B@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <1330096197.54010.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 10:16:11 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:16:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: THE LIT PUB Message-ID: <1330096571.71585.YahooMailNeo@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Call for Submissions: THE LIT PUB About:?The Lit Pub is an independent publishing company specializing in literary hybridity. We're interested in the genre-blurring that occurs when authors experiment with traditional and established forms of fiction, poetry, and non-fiction. We also serve our fellow publishers (and book lovers) by recommending at least one book a day on our blog.? Submissions: Our open reading period for book manuscripts will be this summer. In the meantime, consider submitting a heartfelt, personalized recommendation for the last great book you read and loved. We also seek recommendations for individual issues of literary magazines, and we're also interested in exclusive author interviews. Direct all submissions to The Lit Pub's?Submishmash?account (http://thelitpub.submishmash.com/submit). ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 10:17:22 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:17:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions: THE LIT PUB In-Reply-To: <1330096571.71585.YahooMailNeo@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1330096571.71585.YahooMailNeo@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330096642.71964.YahooMailNeo@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Forgot to include the link - http://thelitpub.com/ Call for Submissions: THE LIT PUB About:?The Lit Pub is an independent publishing company specializing in literary hybridity. We're interested in the genre-blurring that occurs when authors experiment with traditional and established forms of fiction, poetry, and non-fiction. We also serve our fellow publishers (and book lovers) by recommending at least one book a day on our blog.? Submissions: Our open reading period for book manuscripts will be this summer. In the meantime, consider submitting a heartfelt, personalized recommendation for the last great book you read and loved. We also seek recommendations for individual issues of literary magazines, and we're also interested in exclusive author interviews. Direct all submissions to The Lit Pub's?Submishmash?account (http://thelitpub.submishmash.com/submit). ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 10:34:38 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:34:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] PEN American Roundup - "Poetry, Not Just a Book" Message-ID: <1330097678.75187.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Poetry is not just a book anymore. Beyond online journals, poems happily interact with film and video, music, dance, and, well, we?re here today to celebrate all the ways we can see and hear a poem! Continued here - http://www.pen.org/blog/?p=9216 -- "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 11:26:44 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:26:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues Message-ID: <1330100804.45097.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre?companies to take certain liberties with his work.?I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Feb 24 12:45:52 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:45:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] UofL, Louisville Conference on Lit and Culture, happening now Message-ID: <8CEC133494DE088-1B6C-2210@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> http://www.louisville.com/content/600-literary-scholars-gather-uofl%E2%80%99s-louisville-conference-literature-and-culture-weekend-boo http://www.thelouisvilleconference.com/program_2012.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Feb 24 12:58:12 2012 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham-RC) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:58:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Revisiting Jarrell's criticism Message-ID: <13879013-06E0-4CA6-97AC-C03DB9920F69@ripon.edu> I just stumbled across a nice brief tribute to Randall Jarrell's collection of essays *Poetry and the Age*, without a doubt my favorite book of criticism by far. It's by John Freeman and appeared several years ago. The book itself was first published in 1953, the year I was born. I probably first encountered it about 1973, and re-visit it on a regular basis when I need to stoke my fires. It's not only aged well, but I think still contains some of the sharpest commentary we have on Whitman, Frost, Williams, and others. Below is a sample from the essay; the full text can be read here: http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/015_01/2254 This is not just impressionistic reviewing; it is imaginative reviewing, which seeks through a few key (but strangely controversial assumptions?that poetry refers to a world outside itself and that readers live in that world?to draw readers to the work itself. Though he was fearsome (the poet and critic William Logan has described Jarrell's style as "genially murderous"), he was also an enthusiast, and in his essays on Frost, he is forever asking?no, begging?the reader to stop reading him to go read more Frost than he can fit into his already enormous bank of quotations. "This is the best place to say once more that such an article as this is not relatively but absolutely inadequate to a body of poetry as great as Frost's," he writes at one point. So there is a paradox at the heart of Jarrell the critic. By rejecting Eliot's call for impersonal criticism, he harnesses the power of American speech?of speaking person to person. But he then he steps away and reminds the critic, and the reader, that the critic's role is secondary. "Admit what you can't conceal," Jarrell concludes in "The Age of Criticism," "that criticism is no more than (and no less than) the helpful remarks and the thoughtful and disinterested judgment of a reader, a loving and experienced and able reader, but only a reader. . . . Remember that you can never be more than the staircase to the monument, the guide to the gallery, the telescope through which the children see the stars. At your best you make people see what they might never have seen without you; but they must always forget you in what they see." --John Freeman. Book Forum (Apr/May 2008). ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Feb 24 13:34:22 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tale of two Keats Message-ID: <8CEC13A0FFDCFFC-1B6C-2758@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/poet-and-pioneer_616713.html Denise Gigante takes a new approach to the familiar and tragic tale of John?s brief life, by pairing his biography with that of his younger brother George Keats. George was, Gigante argues, a different manifestation of the Romantic ?Man of Power.? Where John Keats channeled his energies into writing the poems for which he is famous?odes, including ?Ode to a Nightingale? and ?To Autumn,? sensuous narrative poems such as ?The Eve of St. Agnes,? and many brilliant experimental sonnets?George Keats channeled the same pioneering energies into crossing the Atlantic to the wild west of America, investing in business ventures, and after numerous misfortunes, becoming a wealthy mill owner in Louisville. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Fri Feb 24 14:23:21 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:23:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle. In-Reply-To: <1330100804.45097.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330100804.45097.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A09C3F6-E9F6-4DEA-BEAE-A655B33A594B@mikesnider.org> The poems are actually songs, and have been from the first production. However, there is no official score, and the usually the cast of each production writes its own music for the songs. Hey, it even says so in Wikipedia, so it's gotta be true. Krys is going to take some of the music she wrote and adapt it for our band. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26, stephen russell wrote: > > of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre companies to take certain liberties with his work. I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. > > --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM > > are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. > > --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: > > From: Michael Snider > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM > > I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called >> Civic Reflection Through Poetry? >> http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 >> >> Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: >> >> A Bed for the Night >> >> >> I hear that in New York >> At the corner of 26th and Broadway >> A man stands every evening during the winter months >> And gets beds for the homeless there >> By appealing to passers-by. >> >> It won?t change the world >> It won?t improve relations among men >> It will not shorten the age of exploitation >> But a few men have a bed for the night >> For a night the wind is kept from them >> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. >> >> Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. >> >> A few people have a bed for the night >> For a night the wind is kept from them >> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway >> But it won?t change the world >> It won?t improve relations among men >> It will not shorten the age of exploitation. >> >> -- >> After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. >> >> Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. >> >> Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 15:10:19 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:10:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers Message-ID: <1330114219.44571.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Read? That's such a 50s thing, Bob. Thusly, to quote Harold Bloom (word for word): "It has to fascinate me that the KJB is the one compendium of great writing that millions in our post literate era continue to encounter, though whether it is often read is uncertain. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 5:06 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:33 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers ? sorry to keep chiming in ... ? You should be, Stephen.? Read, don?t participate. ? but a powerfully original poetic voice is so vapid ... i'm guilty of recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. It?s the voice that?s original and powerful, not the poetry.? Unfortunately about the only thing most known critics are interested in. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 15:42:05 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:42:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers Message-ID: <1330116125.29352.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Moreover, and to quote (again, word for word), Robert Pogue Harrison, professor of Italian Lit at Stanford (I'm sticking to the guys with the heavy weight degrees from elite institutions to buffer my comments): Harrison quotes Job (Job is responding to Yahweh) ... but I'm too lazy to type it all out ... ... in spite of laziness, to continue quoting Harrison: Compared to the strong lineaments of verses such as these, most of the poetry written in English today shows precious little "inevitability" in its phrasing. Some of the factors that have contributed to the drastic decline of the art of bringing phrases to closure are clear enough. They include the whole-sale de-formalization of poetry in our time and the consequent premium placed on enjambment: our dogmatic insistence on open-endedness and the bland tones of everyday language; our predilection for understatement and uneasiness about rhetorical display; our aversion to affirmation and our cult of the whisper. In England the art of poetry was at its zenith in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and it left its mark throughout the King James Bible. ... still not sure what he means by the cult of the whisper. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 3:10 PM Read? That's such a 50s thing, Bob. Thusly, to quote Harold Bloom (word for word): "It has to fascinate me that the KJB is the one compendium of great writing that millions in our post literate era continue to encounter, though whether it is often read is uncertain. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 5:06 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:33 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers ? sorry to keep chiming in ... ? You should be, Stephen.? Read, don?t participate. ? but a powerfully original poetic voice is so vapid ... i'm guilty of recognizing about half of these searing names. They truly soar. It?s the voice that?s original and powerful, not the poetry.? Unfortunately about the only thing most known critics are interested in. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 15:44:53 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:44:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle. In-Reply-To: <5A09C3F6-E9F6-4DEA-BEAE-A655B33A594B@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <1330116293.21935.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> there is no official score that's good. no one can get sued. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: [New-Poetry] Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle. To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 2:23 PM The poems are actually songs, and have been from the first production. However, there is no official score, and the usually the cast of each production writes its own music for the songs. Hey, it even says so in Wikipedia, so it's gotta be true. Krys is going to take some of the music she wrote and adapt it for our band.? www.mikesnider.org On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26, stephen russell wrote: of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre?companies to take certain liberties with his work.?I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 24 15:56:03 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:56:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tale of two Keats In-Reply-To: <8CEC13A0FFDCFFC-1B6C-2758@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC13A0FFDCFFC-1B6C-2758@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEBB309C80B44FDA477972B7874E574@BobHP> http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/poet-and-pioneer_616713.html Denise Gigante takes a new approach to the familiar and tragic tale of John?s brief life, by pairing his biography with that of his younger brother George Keats. George was, Gigante argues, a different manifestation of the Romantic ?Man of Power.? Where John Keats channeled his energies into writing the poems for which he is famous?odes, including ?Ode to a Nightingale? and ?To Autumn,? sensuous narrative poems such as ?The Eve of St. Agnes,? and many brilliant experimental sonnets?George Keats channeled the same pioneering energies into crossing the Atlantic to the wild west of America, investing in business ventures, and after numerous misfortunes, becoming a wealthy mill owner in Louisville. Great to hear, Finnegan. Keats was the first poet I near-totally absorbed?reading just about all his poems and letters, and the available biographies, and I always wanted to know more about George, whom I saw as this author seems to. No doubt John?s having two brothers and a little sister contributed to that. But George was a very appealing, supportive brother (as mine have been). Tom, too, although dead at seventeen. I always wanted to write a tragedy about Keats, feeling that the world lost far more when he died than it did when any king or politician did. I wanted to do one on Marlowe, too. I suppose now I was missing something, for I never did more than think about the two plays. The world, of course, was no help, but I think the best writers write as much as they?re capable of regardless of the world. I have no problem with Harvard?s publishing this book, by the way. As always, it?s the many other books they should be publishing and aren?t that bother me. Meanwhile, by chance, I sketched a poem I?m calling, ?Elegy for Keats,? just a couple of days ago. Just got a great idea for it: a background of ?a name writ on water? repeated swirling like liquid over the entire page,? with a mathemaku including ?the sea?s eternal whisperings/ around desolate shores,? from a sea-sonnet by Keats, which I?d already been intending to use, in it. Now if I can only get around to doing it: the background will be difficult; I need to do it cursive, I think, and I?m not good at that. . . . Hmmm, should I just repeat ?a name?? I think so. Maybe once in a while add ?writ.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Feb 24 16:04:35 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:04:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: <1330116125.29352.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330116125.29352.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:42 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers Moreover, and to quote (again, word for word), Robert Pogue Harrison, professor of Italian Lit at Stanford (I'm sticking to the guys with the heavy weight degrees from elite institutions to buffer {BUTTRESS? [Hadda show you up, Stephen]} my comments): Harrison quotes Job (Job is responding to Yahweh) ... but I'm too lazy to type it all out ... ... in spite of laziness, to continue quoting Harrison: Compared to the strong lineaments of verses such as these, most of the poetry written in English today shows precious little "inevitability" in its phrasing. Some of the factors that have contributed to the drastic decline of the art of bringing phrases to closure are clear enough. They include the whole-sale de-formalization of poetry in our time and the consequent premium placed on enjambment: our dogmatic insistence on open-endedness and the bland tones of everyday language; our predilection for understatement and uneasiness about rhetorical display; our aversion to affirmation and our cult of the whisper. In England the art of poetry was at its zenith in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and it left its mark throughout the King James Bible. ... still not sure what he means by the cult of the whisper. Actually, I like that. He just means indirectness, incompleteness, subtlety. A virtue of modern poetry that too many poets take too far. One of the obligatory features, it would seem, of Iowa School Poetry. Note how our academic stresses tone, point-of-view, different combinations of standard poetic devices, but nothing of any real consequence, as far as I?m concerned. From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:42 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers Moreover, and to quote (again, word for word), Robert Pogue Harrison, professor of Italian Lit at Stanford (I'm sticking to the guys with the heavy weight degrees from elite institutions to buffer {BUTTRESS? [Hadda show you up, Stephen]} my comments): Harrison quotes Job (Job is responding to Yahweh) ... but I'm too lazy to type it all out ... ... in spite of laziness, to continue quoting Harrison: Compared to the strong lineaments of verses such as these, most of the poetry written in English today shows precious little "inevitability" in its phrasing. Some of the factors that have contributed to the drastic decline of the art of bringing phrases to closure are clear enough. They include the whole-sale de-formalization of poetry in our time and the consequent premium placed on enjambment: our dogmatic insistence on open-endedness and the bland tones of everyday language; our predilection for understatement and uneasiness about rhetorical display; our aversion to affirmation and our cult of the whisper. In England the art of poetry was at its zenith in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and it left its mark throughout the King James Bible. ... still not sure what he means by the cult of the whisper. Actually, I like that. He just means indirectness, incompleteness, subtlety. A virtue of modern poetry that too many poets take too far. One of the obligatory features, it would seem, of Iowa School Poetry. Note how our academic stresses tone, point-of-view, different combinations of standard poetic devices, but nothing of any real consequence, as far as I?m concerned. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 16:24:49 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:24:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <1330100804.45097.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330100804.45097.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And Albee would not allow an all-male production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Sent from my iPad On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre companies to take certain liberties with his work. I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. > > --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM > > are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. > > --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: > > From: Michael Snider > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM > > I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called >> Civic Reflection Through Poetry? >> http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 >> >> Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: >> >> A Bed for the Night >> >> >> I hear that in New York >> At the corner of 26th and Broadway >> A man stands every evening during the winter months >> And gets beds for the homeless there >> By appealing to passers-by. >> >> It won?t change the world >> It won?t improve relations among men >> It will not shorten the age of exploitation >> But a few men have a bed for the night >> For a night the wind is kept from them >> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. >> >> Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. >> >> A few people have a bed for the night >> For a night the wind is kept from them >> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway >> But it won?t change the world >> It won?t improve relations among men >> It will not shorten the age of exploitation. >> >> -- >> After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. >> >> Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. >> >> Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 16:25:19 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:25:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New Chapbook by Mac Wellman! In-Reply-To: <4c754e14bb1f3dfdcc9d18b25f5f6ce88cf.20120224184122@mail126.us2.mcsv.net> References: <4c754e14bb1f3dfdcc9d18b25f5f6ce88cf.20120224184122@mail126.us2.mcsv.net> Message-ID: Little Red Leaves Textile Series is so pleased to announce Mac Wellman's latest chapbook, The Rat Minaret*,* is now on sale! Get your copy for only $8 + Shipping! Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. [image: LRL Textile Series] [image: The Rat Minaret by Mac Wellman] *The Rat Minaret Mac Wellman* Mac Wellman! Mac Wellman! Mac Wellman! The spritely and sordid and surly take their places. Take there. Shake their tales. Even Stevens could wrangle language in this particular way. So we sew and sew and sew and happily announce the release of this 43-page chapbook with stretchy psychedelic cover. Order your copy for only $8 + shipping! [image: MATRYOSHKA by Jamie Townsend] *Jamie Townsend's MATRYOSHKA now in Second Printing!* , Buy in for $8 + Shipping ! 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The Textile Subscriptionincludes 12 titles sent directly to your home throughout the year, including new works of poetry by emerging and established experimental poets. - Kate & Sonia by Dan Thomas-Glass - The Rat Minaret by Mac Wellman - King Queen by Todd Melicker [coming soon!] - Daily News by Jen Hofer - Ritualists by Brooklyn Copeland - from Fascicle 30 by Brad Vogler - Gemology by Megan Kaminski - Future Occupations by Lee Gough - On Monsters by Elizabeth Robinson - The Terraces (Das Arquibancadas) by Joe Milazzo - Fracture by Caroline Knapp - YesYesY by Stephen Nelson - NOTWITHSTANDING shoring, FLUMMOX by Emily Abendroth - Also stay tuned for new manuscripts from Brenda Iijima, Jared Hayes, Bhanu Kapil, Judith Goldman, Julia Drescher and Stacy Kidd *Textile Subscription* ? $100 [saves you $20 on shipping] - 12 textile series chapbooks with sewn cloth covers *[Extra Text]ile Subscription*? $130 [saves you $20 on shipping] - 12 textile series chapbooks with sewn cloth covers - handmade ephemera. About the Textile Series A project of little red leaves, the textile series takes the hand out of ?hand-sewn chapbooks.? It?s real work in the age of mechanical reproduction. It?s the little sewing machine that could. It?s ironed and folded and sewn and pulled and the threads stick out. All textile series chapbooks are 5.5? by 4.25? with fabric covers scavenged from old curtains, bedsheets and other textile remnants. We consider it a micro-revolution. A call to action against staples, tape and glue. Coming at you em-dashed, a little wrinkled, and needlessly obscure. forward to a friend *Copyright ? 2012 Little Red Leaves Textile Series, All rights reserved.* This is a periodic update about the textile series chapbook series from Little Red Leaves. Thanks for your interest in Little Red Leaves. *Our mailing address is:* Little Red Leaves Textile Series 2213 Driscoll Street Houston, Texas 77001 Add us to your address book [image: Email Marketing Powered by MailChimp] unsubscribe from this list| update subscription preferences -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 16:42:28 2012 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:42:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Revisiting Jarrell's criticism In-Reply-To: <13879013-06E0-4CA6-97AC-C03DB9920F69@ripon.edu> References: <13879013-06E0-4CA6-97AC-C03DB9920F69@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, David. I have this book in my office, but, alas, my other office - high time I read it. Which I'll do, when I can move again. Can't go anywhere in this blizzard. On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM, David Graham-RC wrote: > I just stumbled across a nice brief tribute to Randall Jarrell's > collection of essays *Poetry and the Age*, without a doubt my favorite book > of criticism by far. It's by John Freeman and appeared several years ago. > The book itself was first published in 1953, the year I was born. > > I probably first encountered it about 1973, and re-visit it on a regular > basis when I need to stoke my fires. It's not only aged well, but I think > still contains some of the sharpest commentary we have on Whitman, Frost, > Williams, and others. > > Below is a sample from the essay; the full text can be read here: > http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/015_01/2254 > > This is not just impressionistic reviewing; it is imaginative reviewing, > which seeks through a few key (but strangely controversial assumptions?that > poetry refers to a world outside itself and that readers live in that > world?to draw readers to the work itself. Though he was fearsome (the poet > and critic William Logan has described Jarrell's style as "genially > murderous"), he was also an enthusiast, and in his essays on Frost, he is > forever asking?no, begging?the reader to stop reading him to go read more > Frost than he can fit into his already enormous bank of quotations. "This > is the best place to say once more that such an article as this is not > relatively but absolutely inadequate to a body of poetry as great as > Frost's," he writes at one point. > > So there is a paradox at the heart of Jarrell the critic. By rejecting > Eliot's call for impersonal criticism, he harnesses the power of American > speech?of speaking person to person. But he then he steps away and reminds > the critic, and the reader, that the critic's role is secondary. "Admit > what you can't conceal," Jarrell concludes in "The Age of Criticism," "that > criticism is no more than (and no less than) the helpful remarks and the > thoughtful and disinterested judgment of a reader, a loving and experienced > and able reader, but only a reader. . . . Remember that you can never be > more than the staircase to the monument, the guide to the gallery, the > telescope through which the children see the stars. At your best you make > people see what they might never have seen without you; but they must > always forget you in what they see." > --John Freeman. *Book Forum *(Apr/May 2008). > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Feb 24 19:10:25 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:10:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Speaking of imaginative reviews... Message-ID: <1330128625.67622.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I love this one.? And the reaches the reviewer makes.? Thanks for that -? http://htmlgiant.com/reviews/a-man-reads-men-by-the-lips-of-women/ Enjoy! Amy p.s.? If you'd like to see a video "interpretation" (exaggeration?) of one of the poems he references, P&W offers it up - http://www.pw.org/content/creepy_valentine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 25 09:51:28 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 06:51:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330181488.21137.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> or perhaps buffet (as opposed to the surname of a very wealthy American from Nebraska, spelled with an additional T) verb (used with object) 3. to strike, as with the hand or fist. 4. to strike against or push repeatedly: The wind buffeted the house. 5. to contend against; battle. ... the distinguished proffessor, I think, was commenting on something Harold Bloom had said about inevitability. Which, I'm guessing, has something to do with canonical writing ... still, I'm confused ... the cult of the whisper I'm asking someone, perhaps a Stanford grad, to clarify ... (cult of the whisper) ... --- On Fri, 2/24/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:04 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:42 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers ? Moreover, and to quote (again, word for word), Robert Pogue Harrison, professor of Italian Lit at Stanford (I'm sticking to the guys with the heavy weight degrees from elite institutions to buffer {BUTTRESS?? [Hadda show you up, Stephen]} my comments): Harrison quotes Job (Job is responding to Yahweh) ... but I'm too lazy to type it all out ... ... in spite of laziness, to continue quoting Harrison: Compared to the strong lineaments of verses such as these, most of the poetry written in English today shows precious little "inevitability" in its phrasing. Some of the factors that have contributed to the drastic decline of the art of bringing phrases to closure are clear enough. They include the whole-sale de-formalization of poetry in our time and the consequent premium placed on enjambment: our dogmatic insistence on open-endedness and the bland tones of everyday language; our predilection for understatement and uneasiness about rhetorical display; our aversion to affirmation and our cult of the whisper. In England the art of poetry was at its zenith in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and it left its mark throughout the King James Bible. ... still not sure what he means by the cult of the whisper. ? Actually, I like that.? He just means indirectness, incompleteness, subtlety.? A virtue of modern poetry that too many poets take too far.? One of the obligatory features, it would seem, of Iowa School Poetry.? Note how our academic stresses tone, point-of-view, different combinations of standard poetic devices, but nothing of any real consequence, as far as I?m concerned.? ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:42 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Books spring 2012 - Answers ? Moreover, and to quote (again, word for word), Robert Pogue Harrison, professor of Italian Lit at Stanford (I'm sticking to the guys with the heavy weight degrees from elite institutions to buffer {BUTTRESS?? [Hadda show you up, Stephen]} my comments): Harrison quotes Job (Job is responding to Yahweh) ... but I'm too lazy to type it all out ... ... in spite of laziness, to continue quoting Harrison: Compared to the strong lineaments of verses such as these, most of the poetry written in English today shows precious little "inevitability" in its phrasing. Some of the factors that have contributed to the drastic decline of the art of bringing phrases to closure are clear enough. They include the whole-sale de-formalization of poetry in our time and the consequent premium placed on enjambment: our dogmatic insistence on open-endedness and the bland tones of everyday language; our predilection for understatement and uneasiness about rhetorical display; our aversion to affirmation and our cult of the whisper. In England the art of poetry was at its zenith in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and it left its mark throughout the King James Bible. ... still not sure what he means by the cult of the whisper. ? Actually, I like that.? He just means indirectness, incompleteness, subtlety.? A virtue of modern poetry that too many poets take too far.? One of the obligatory features, it would seem, of Iowa School Poetry.? Note how our academic stresses tone, point-of-view, different combinations of standard poetic devices, but nothing of any real consequence, as far as I?m concerned.? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 25 09:57:29 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 06:57:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues Message-ID: <1330181849.90011.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Guy falls in love with a goat in The Goat, or who is Sylvia? ... suppose the goat can't act ... a human has to play the part of a goat ... would Albee gripe? --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Tad Richards wrote: From: Tad Richards Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:24 PM And Albee would not allow an all-male production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Sent from my iPad On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26 AM, stephen russell wrote: of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre?companies to take certain liberties with his work.?I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 25 10:04:12 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:04:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <1330181849.90011.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330182252.22195.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> after all, Hitchcock is famous for saying that actors should be treated like cattle. He forgot to mention goats. --- On Sat, 2/25/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 25, 2012, 9:57 AM Guy falls in love with a goat in The Goat, or who is Sylvia? ... suppose the goat can't act ... a human has to play the part of a goat ... would Albee gripe? --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Tad Richards wrote: From: Tad Richards Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:24 PM And Albee would not allow an all-male production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Sent from my iPad On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26 AM, stephen russell wrote: of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre?companies to take certain liberties with his work.?I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Sat Feb 25 10:17:59 2012 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:17:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <1330182252.22195.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330182252.22195.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <118C0BA6-78EF-43A4-8761-E58CAE12C44C@mikesnider.org> Goats are a hell of a lot smarter than cattle. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 25, 2012, at 10:04, stephen russell wrote: > after all, Hitchcock is famous for saying that actors should be treated like cattle. > He forgot to mention goats. > > --- On Sat, 2/25/12, stephen russell wrote: > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Saturday, February 25, 2012, 9:57 AM > > Guy falls in love with a goat in The Goat, or who is Sylvia? ... suppose the goat can't act ... a human > has to play the part of a goat ... would Albee gripe? > > --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Tad Richards wrote: > > From: Tad Richards > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:24 PM > > And Albee would not allow an all-male production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26 AM, stephen russell wrote: > >> >> of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre companies to take certain liberties with his work. I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. >> >> --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: >> >> From: stephen russell >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM >> >> are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. >> >> --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: >> >> From: Michael Snider >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM >> >> I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! >> >> www.mikesnider.org >> >> On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >>> I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called >>> Civic Reflection Through Poetry? >>> http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 >>> >>> Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: >>> >>> A Bed for the Night >>> >>> >>> I hear that in New York >>> At the corner of 26th and Broadway >>> A man stands every evening during the winter months >>> And gets beds for the homeless there >>> By appealing to passers-by. >>> >>> It won?t change the world >>> It won?t improve relations among men >>> It will not shorten the age of exploitation >>> But a few men have a bed for the night >>> For a night the wind is kept from them >>> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. >>> >>> Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. >>> >>> A few people have a bed for the night >>> For a night the wind is kept from them >>> The snow meant for them falls on the roadway >>> But it won?t change the world >>> It won?t improve relations among men >>> It will not shorten the age of exploitation. >>> >>> -- >>> After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. >>> >>> Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. >>> >>> Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 25 10:22:18 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:22:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues In-Reply-To: <118C0BA6-78EF-43A4-8761-E58CAE12C44C@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <1330183338.82310.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> can't argue there. some are probably decent actors 2. --- On Sat, 2/25/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 25, 2012, 10:17 AM Goats are a hell of a lot smarter than cattle. www.mikesnider.org On Feb 25, 2012, at 10:04, stephen russell wrote: after all, Hitchcock is famous for saying that actors should be treated like cattle. He forgot to mention goats. --- On Sat, 2/25/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, February 25, 2012, 9:57 AM Guy falls in love with a goat in The Goat, or who is Sylvia? ... suppose the goat can't act ... a human has to play the part of a goat ... would Albee gripe? --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Tad Richards wrote: From: Tad Richards Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:24 PM And Albee would not allow an all-male production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Sent from my iPad On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:26 AM, stephen russell wrote: of course, adaptations of any sort are acceptable. Most of the time. Unless we're talking about a living author. Beckett would not allow theatre?companies to take certain liberties with his work.?I think he sued when a company tried an After the Bomb spin with Godot. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 10:09 AM are you taking poems from the Chalk Circle and setting them to music? I've read this play a very long time ago. But I don't remember it being a musical. --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Michael Snider wrote: From: Michael Snider Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Socratic poetics and socio-political issues To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 11:00 PM I'm involved just now in a production of Brecht's Caucasian Chalk Circle (as a musician, my SO is writing all the music). I think Brecht is, for a while, anyway, my favorite poet/lyricist. Even the Doors' Whiskey Bar stays in my head these days, though Marianne Faithful's version form the astonishing 20th Century Blues album seems to me definitive. You should hear her Pirate Jenny and Mack the Knife! www.mikesnider.org On Feb 23, 2012, at 20:25, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I went to an interesting short program (a colloquy really) at the U. of Hartford today. It was called Civic Reflection Through Poetry? http://www.hartford.edu/daily/Articles.asp?MainID=12253&Category=7 ? Edward Grippe, a philosophy professor, lead the discussion. After some introductory remarks to explain his process, then he introduced a Bertolt Brecht poem: ? A Bed for the Night ? ? I hear that in New York At the corner of 26th and Broadway A man stands every evening during the winter months And gets beds for the homeless there By appealing to passers-by. ? It won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation But a few men have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway. ? Don?t put down the book on reading this, man. ? A few people have a bed for the night For a night the wind is kept from them The snow meant for them falls on the roadway But it won?t change the world It won?t improve relations among men It will not shorten the age of exploitation. ? -- After the poem was read aloud (copies at hand), Grippe invited the small group of us to discuss what the poem made us think, what we had got from the poem, how the poem made us feel, etc. ? Then Grippe began a kind of Socratic interrogation of us. Asking questions. Inflecting and diverting our responses. Asking more questions. And so it went for a couple hours. Of course the purpose was to call into question any simple assessment of the poem, and to challenge simple solutions to the societal issues at play. Success measured by the number of issues put in play...not by any end result or neat answer. Grippe does this short program in schools, elder facilities, prisons, et al. ? ? Finnegan ? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Feb 25 10:34:36 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:34:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Revisiting Jarrell's criticism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330184076.34751.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There had been a seismic shift in the poetry world in 1953. Modernism had cut poetry off more than ever from its audience. And while Jarrell wasn't about to discount that fact, he also wondered whether any sort of poetry could reconnect with some Americans: E E Cummings, popular with poets and non-poets. --- On Fri, 2/24/12, Paul Howell wrote: From: Paul Howell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Revisiting Jarrell's criticism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, February 24, 2012, 4:42 PM Thanks, David. I have this book in my office, but, alas, my other office - high time I read it. Which I'll do, when I can move again. Can't go anywhere in this blizzard. On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM, David Graham-RC wrote: I just stumbled across a nice brief tribute to Randall Jarrell's collection of essays *Poetry and the Age*, without a doubt my favorite book of criticism by far. ?It's by John Freeman and appeared several years ago. The book itself was first published in 1953, the year I was born. ? I probably first encountered it about 1973, and?re-visit it on a regular basis when I need to stoke my fires. ?It's not only aged well, but I think still contains some of the sharpest commentary we have on Whitman, Frost, Williams, and others. ? Below is a sample from the essay; the full text can be read here:http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/015_01/2254 This is not just impressionistic reviewing; it is imaginative reviewing, which seeks through a few key (but strangely controversial assumptions?that poetry refers to a world outside itself and that readers live in that world?to draw readers to the work itself. Though he was fearsome (the poet and critic William Logan has described Jarrell's style as "genially murderous"), he was also an enthusiast, and in his essays on Frost, he is forever asking?no, begging?the reader to stop reading him to go read more Frost than he can fit into his already enormous bank of quotations. "This is the best place to say once more that such an article as this is not relatively but absolutely inadequate to a body of poetry as great as Frost's," he writes at one point. So there is a paradox at the heart of Jarrell the critic. By rejecting Eliot's call for impersonal criticism, he harnesses the power of American speech?of speaking person to person. But he then he steps away and reminds the critic, and the reader, that the critic's role is secondary. "Admit what you can't conceal," Jarrell concludes in "The Age of Criticism," "that criticism is no more than (and no less than) the helpful remarks and the thoughtful and disinterested judgment of a reader, a loving and experienced and able reader, but only a reader. . . . Remember that you can never be more than the staircase to the monument, the guide to the gallery, the telescope through which the children see the stars. At your best you make people see what they might never have seen without you; but they must always forget you in what they see." --John Freeman. ?Book Forum (Apr/May 2008). ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 25 11:57:03 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:57:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens In-Reply-To: <8CEC1497A299449-1B6C-3466@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC1497A299449-1B6C-3466@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEC1F5A1EF20FF-18A0-855C@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com> And a NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens... http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/making-sense-of-wallace-stevens-with-help-from-some-experts/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 12:16:31 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:16:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens In-Reply-To: <8CEC1F5A1EF20FF-18A0-855C@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC1497A299449-1B6C-3466@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC1F5A1EF20FF-18A0-855C@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Brain-clouds--makes sense to me. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 10:57 AM, wrote: > And a NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens... > > > http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/making-sense-of-wallace-stevens-with-help-from-some-experts/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Feb 25 12:41:39 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:41:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense ofWallace Stevens In-Reply-To: <8CEC1F5A1EF20FF-18A0-855C@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC1497A299449-1B6C-3466@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC1F5A1EF20FF-18A0-855C@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7143DD92CE3C468688EA59AB1152CD9D@BobHP> As terrifically helpful as the Times always is. But I?m glad they gave you a mention in the other article, Finnegan. I?m sure the literati at the Times are feeling really good about how much they?ve done for poetry in American for this year already. --Bob From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:57 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens And a NYTimes blog post about trying to make sense of Wallace Stevens... http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/making-sense-of-wallace-stevens-with-help-from-some-experts/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 12:47:42 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:47:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tale of two Keats In-Reply-To: <8CEBB309C80B44FDA477972B7874E574@BobHP> References: <8CEC13A0FFDCFFC-1B6C-2758@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CEBB309C80B44FDA477972B7874E574@BobHP> Message-ID: A star. On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 9:56 PM, bob grumman wrote: > http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/poet-and-pioneer_616713.html > > Denise Gigante takes a new approach to the familiar and tragic tale of > John?s brief life, by pairing his biography with that of his younger > brother George Keats. George was, Gigante argues, a different manifestation > of the Romantic ?Man of Power.? Where John Keats channeled his energies > into writing the poems for which he is famous?odes, including ?Ode to a > Nightingale? and ?To Autumn,? sensuous narrative poems such as ?The Eve of > St. Agnes,? and many brilliant experimental sonnets?George Keats channeled > the same pioneering energies into crossing the Atlantic to the wild west of > America, investing in business ventures, and after numerous misfortunes, > becoming a wealthy mill owner in Louisville. > > Great to hear, Finnegan. Keats was the first poet I near-totally > absorbed?reading just about all his poems and letters, and the available > biographies, and I always wanted to know more about George, whom I saw as > this author seems to. No doubt John?s having two brothers and a little > sister contributed to that. But George was a very appealing, supportive > brother (as mine have been). Tom, too, although dead at seventeen. I > always wanted to write a tragedy about Keats, feeling that the world lost > far more when he died than it did when any king or politician did. I > wanted to do one on Marlowe, too. I suppose now I was missing something, > for I never did more than think about the two plays. The world, of course, > was no help, but I think the best writers write as much as they?re capable > of regardless of the world. > > I have no problem with Harvard?s publishing this book, by the way. As > always, it?s the many other books they should be publishing and aren?t that > bother me. > > Meanwhile, by chance, I sketched a poem I?m calling, ?Elegy for Keats,? > just a couple of days ago. Just got a great idea for it: a background of > ?a name writ on water? repeated swirling like liquid over the entire page,? > with a mathemaku including ?the sea?s eternal whisperings/ around desolate > shores,? from a sea-sonnet by Keats, which I?d already been intending to > use, in it. Now if I can only get around to doing it: the background will > be difficult; I need to do it cursive, I think, and I?m not good at that. . > . . Hmmm, should I just repeat ?a name?? I think so. Maybe once in a > while add ?writ.? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 25 14:47:50 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 14:47:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem Message-ID: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Song Listen: there was a goat's head hanging by ropes in a tree. All night it hung there and sang. And those who heard it Felt a hurt in their hearts and thought they were hearing The song of a night bird. They sat up in their beds, and then They lay back down again. In the night wind, the goat's head Swayed back and forth, and from far off it shone faintly The way the moonlight shone on the train track miles away Beside which the goat's headless body lay. Some boys Had hacked its head off. It was harder work than they had imagined. The goat cried like a man and struggled hard. But they Finished the job. They hung the bleeding head by the school And then ran off into the darkness that seems to hide everything. The head hung in the tree. The body lay by the tracks. The head called to the body. The body to the head. They missed each other. The missing grew large between them, Until it pulled the heart right out of the body, until The drawn heart flew toward the head, flew as a bird flies Back to its cage and the familiar perch from which it trills. Then the heart sang in the head, softly at first and then louder, Sang long and low until the morning light came up over The school and over the tree, and then the singing stopped.... The goat had belonged to a small girl. She named The goat Broken Thorn Sweet Blackberry, named it after The night's bush of stars, because the goat's silky hair Was dark as well water, because it had eyes like wild fruit. The girl lived near a high railroad track. At night She heard the trains passing, the sweet sound of the train's horn Pouring softly over her bed, and each morning she woke To give the bleating goat his pail of warm milk. She sang Him songs about girls with ropes and cooks in boats. She brushed him with a stiff brush. She dreamed daily That he grew bigger, and he did. She thought her dreaming Made it so. But one night the girl didn't hear the train's horn, And the next morning she woke to an empty yard. The goat Was gone. Everything looked strange. It was as if a storm Had passed through while she slept, wind and stones, rain Stripping the branches of fruit. She knew that someone Had stolen the goat and that he had come to harm. She called To him. All morning and into the afternoon, she called And called. She walked and walked. In her chest a bad feeling Like the feeling of the stones gouging the soft undersides Of her bare feet. Then somebody found the goat's body By the high tracks, the flies already filling their soft bottles At the goat's torn neck. Then somebody found the head Hanging in a tree by the school. They hurried to take These things away so that the girl would not see them. They hurried to raise money to buy the girl another goat. They hurried to find the boys who had done this, to hear Them say it was a joke, a joke, it was nothing but a joke.... But listen: here is the point. The boys thought to have Their fun and be done with it. It was harder work than they Had imagined, this silly sacrifice, but they finished the job, Whistling as they washed their large hands in the dark. What they didn't know was that the goat's head was already Singing behind them in the tree. What they didn't know Was that the goat's head would go on singing, just for them, Long after the ropes were down, and that they would learn to listen, Pail after pail, stroke after patient stroke. They would Wake in the night thinking they heard the wind in the trees Or a night bird, but their hearts beating harder. There Would be a whistle, a hum, a high murmur, and, at last, a song, The low song a lost boy sings remembering his mother's call. Not a cruel song, no, no, not cruel at all. This song Is sweet. It is sweet. The heart dies of this sweetness. by Brigit Pegeen Kelly, Song, BOA Editions, Ltd. ? 1995 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Feb 25 15:13:19 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:13:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> The Goat I was speaking to a goat. She was alone in the field, tied up. Sated with grass, wet with rain, she was bleating. That selfsame bleat was brother to my own pain. And I replied, at first in jest, then because pain is eternal, a constant voice. This voice sounded in the groan of a lonely goat. In a goat with a Semitic face, a sound to represent all other woes, all other life. by Umberto Saba translated by Robert Peake http://www.robertpeake.com/archives/366-umberto-sabas-bleat.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 16:44:18 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:44:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: /a ' _what should I say_ moving song/ On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 8:47 PM, wrote: > Song > > Listen: there was a goat's head hanging by ropes in a tree. > All night it hung there and sang. And those who heard it > Felt a hurt in their hearts and thought they were hearing > The song of a night bird. They sat up in their beds, and then > They lay back down again. In the night wind, the goat's head > Swayed back and forth, and from far off it shone faintly > The way the moonlight shone on the train track miles away > Beside which the goat's headless body lay. Some boys > Had hacked its head off. It was harder work than they had imagined. > The goat cried like a man and struggled hard. But they > Finished the job. They hung the bleeding head by the school > And then ran off into the darkness that seems to hide everything. > The head hung in the tree. The body lay by the tracks. > The head called to the body. The body to the head. > They missed each other. The missing grew large between them, > Until it pulled the heart right out of the body, until > The drawn heart flew toward the head, flew as a bird flies > Back to its cage and the familiar perch from which it trills. > Then the heart sang in the head, softly at first and then louder, > Sang long and low until the morning light came up over > The school and over the tree, and then the singing stopped.... > The goat had belonged to a small girl. She named > The goat Broken Thorn Sweet Blackberry, named it after > The night's bush of stars, because the goat's silky hair > Was dark as well water, because it had eyes like wild fruit. > The girl lived near a high railroad track. At night > She heard the trains passing, the sweet sound of the train's horn > Pouring softly over her bed, and each morning she woke > To give the bleating goat his pail of warm milk. She sang > Him songs about girls with ropes and cooks in boats. > She brushed him with a stiff brush. She dreamed daily > That he grew bigger, and he did. She thought her dreaming > Made it so. But one night the girl didn't hear the train's horn, > And the next morning she woke to an empty yard. The goat > Was gone. Everything looked strange. It was as if a storm > Had passed through while she slept, wind and stones, rain > Stripping the branches of fruit. She knew that someone > Had stolen the goat and that he had come to harm. She called > To him. All morning and into the afternoon, she called > And called. She walked and walked. In her chest a bad feeling > Like the feeling of the stones gouging the soft undersides > Of her bare feet. Then somebody found the goat's body > By the high tracks, the flies already filling their soft bottles > At the goat's torn neck. Then somebody found the head > Hanging in a tree by the school. They hurried to take > These things away so that the girl would not see them. > They hurried to raise money to buy the girl another goat. > They hurried to find the boys who had done this, to hear > Them say it was a joke, a joke, it was nothing but a joke.... > But listen: here is the point. The boys thought to have > Their fun and be done with it. It was harder work than they > Had imagined, this silly sacrifice, but they finished the job, > Whistling as they washed their large hands in the dark. > What they didn't know was that the goat's head was already > Singing behind them in the tree. What they didn't know > Was that the goat's head would go on singing, just for them, > Long after the ropes were down, and that they would learn to listen, > Pail after pail, stroke after patient stroke. They would > Wake in the night thinking they heard the wind in the trees > Or a night bird, but their hearts beating harder. There > Would be a whistle, a hum, a high murmur, and, at last, a song, > The low song a lost boy sings remembering his mother's call. > Not a cruel song, no, no, not cruel at all. This song > Is sweet. It is sweet. The heart dies of this sweetness. > > > by Brigit Pegeen Kelly, > *Song*, BOA Editions, Ltd. ? 1995 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 16:48:49 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:48:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We had to study this poem at high school. Written during WW2 the reference to Semitic there are nights when I feel the goats and lambs butchered downstairs, I can feel them like Brigit Pegeen Kelly feels them, I always have a taste of blood in my mouth. It would be easy not to see, not to feel. But that is the way I do. For a vegetarian to have a Moroccan butcher downstairs is Hell. On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 9:13 PM, wrote: > The Goat > > > I was speaking to a goat. > She was alone in the field, tied up. > Sated with grass, wet > with rain, she was bleating. > > That selfsame bleat was brother > to my own pain. And I replied, at first > in jest, then because pain is eternal, > a constant voice. > This voice sounded > in the groan of a lonely goat. > > In a goat with a Semitic face, > a sound to represent all other woes, > all other life. > > > by Umberto Saba > translated by Robert Peake > http://www.robertpeake.com/archives/366-umberto-sabas-bleat.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 18:06:46 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 00:06:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Wallace Stevens Walk in The New York Times Travel section In-Reply-To: <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC07AA0B024B4-145C-1BDEB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wonderful, congratulations! And walking had opened his eyes and ears to a place that was full of surprises. As Stevens himself put it in a poem: ?It is like a region full of intonings./It is Hartford seen in a purple light.? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 3:10 AM, wrote: > > Article (link below) that will be in The New York Times Travel section > this week. (The writer quoted one of the less brilliant I'd said that day > we met and did the walk...But it's a good article about the Wallace > Stevens Walk and Hartford's literary side.) > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > > > http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/travel/for-the-poet-wallace-stevens-hartford-was-an-unlikely-muse. > html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 20:25:37 2012 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:25:37 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Listening 2 Message-ID: :: Listening 2: Sibelius, Sym. 3 (Helsinki Phil./Paavo Berglund) Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com On Barcelona (submissions sought; email to my address above) Truck: https://plus.google.com/106252913724243142175 http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/ Remains To Be Seen *, Remains To Be Seen (Vol. II) ,** Remains To Be Seen (Vol. III) , *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems *, *Mainly Black , *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; **Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat Feb 25 23:06:24 2012 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:06:24 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Wallace Stevens Walk in The New York Times Travel section In-Reply-To: References: <8CEC07AA0B024B4-145C-1BDEB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: What a lovely project. On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Wonderful, congratulations! > > And walking had opened his eyes and ears to a place that was full of > surprises. As Stevens himself put it in a poem: > > ?It is like a region full of intonings./It is Hartford seen in a purple > light.? > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 3:10 AM, wrote: > >> >> Article (link below) that will be in The New York Times Travel section >> this week. (The writer quoted one of the less brilliant I'd said that day >> we met and did the walk...But it's a good article about the Wallace >> Stevens Walk and Hartford's literary side.) >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/travel/for-the-poet-wallace-stevens-hartford-was-an-unlikely-muse. >> html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Carol Dorf talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Sun Feb 26 10:37:39 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 10:37:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Wallace Stevens Walk in The New York Times Travel section In-Reply-To: References: <8CEC07AA0B024B4-145C-1BDEB@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC07BDADCBC8B-3360-C3F8@webmail-d175.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC0B0A625D8C7-6D4-4EE4@webmail-m127.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <141D2D6F-33B5-4E8D-BD4E-C0DB7E74334D@gmail.com> You da Wallace Stevens man. Sent from my iPad On Feb 25, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Wonderful, congratulations! > > And walking had opened his eyes and ears to a place that was full of surprises. As Stevens himself put it in a poem: > ?It is like a region full of intonings./It is Hartford seen in a purple light.? > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 3:10 AM, wrote: > > Article (link below) that will be in The New York Times Travel section this week. (The writer quoted one of the less brilliant I'd said that day we met and did the walk...But it's a good article about the Wallace Stevens Walk and Hartford's literary side.) > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > > http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/travel/for-the-poet-wallace-stevens-hartford-was-an-unlikely-muse.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Sun Feb 26 10:38:49 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 10:38:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <12789747-1ABA-450C-BF33-4FB54C099C52@gmail.com> This is one of my favorites. Sent from my iPad On Feb 25, 2012, at 2:47 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Song > > Listen: there was a goat's head hanging by ropes in a tree. > All night it hung there and sang. And those who heard it > Felt a hurt in their hearts and thought they were hearing > The song of a night bird. They sat up in their beds, and then > They lay back down again. In the night wind, the goat's head > Swayed back and forth, and from far off it shone faintly > The way the moonlight shone on the train track miles away > Beside which the goat's headless body lay. Some boys > Had hacked its head off. It was harder work than they had imagined. > The goat cried like a man and struggled hard. But they > Finished the job. They hung the bleeding head by the school > And then ran off into the darkness that seems to hide everything. > The head hung in the tree. The body lay by the tracks. > The head called to the body. The body to the head. > They missed each other. The missing grew large between them, > Until it pulled the heart right out of the body, until > The drawn heart flew toward the head, flew as a bird flies > Back to its cage and the familiar perch from which it trills. > Then the heart sang in the head, softly at first and then louder, > Sang long and low until the morning light came up over > The school and over the tree, and then the singing stopped.... > The goat had belonged to a small girl. She named > The goat Broken Thorn Sweet Blackberry, named it after > The night's bush of stars, because the goat's silky hair > Was dark as well water, because it had eyes like wild fruit. > The girl lived near a high railroad track. At night > She heard the trains passing, the sweet sound of the train's horn > Pouring softly over her bed, and each morning she woke > To give the bleating goat his pail of warm milk. She sang > Him songs about girls with ropes and cooks in boats. > She brushed him with a stiff brush. She dreamed daily > That he grew bigger, and he did. She thought her dreaming > Made it so. But one night the girl didn't hear the train's horn, > And the next morning she woke to an empty yard. The goat > Was gone. Everything looked strange. It was as if a storm > Had passed through while she slept, wind and stones, rain > Stripping the branches of fruit. She knew that someone > Had stolen the goat and that he had come to harm. She called > To him. All morning and into the afternoon, she called > And called. She walked and walked. In her chest a bad feeling > Like the feeling of the stones gouging the soft undersides > Of her bare feet. Then somebody found the goat's body > By the high tracks, the flies already filling their soft bottles > At the goat's torn neck. Then somebody found the head > Hanging in a tree by the school. They hurried to take > These things away so that the girl would not see them. > They hurried to raise money to buy the girl another goat. > They hurried to find the boys who had done this, to hear > Them say it was a joke, a joke, it was nothing but a joke.... > But listen: here is the point. The boys thought to have > Their fun and be done with it. It was harder work than they > Had imagined, this silly sacrifice, but they finished the job, > Whistling as they washed their large hands in the dark. > What they didn't know was that the goat's head was already > Singing behind them in the tree. What they didn't know > Was that the goat's head would go on singing, just for them, > Long after the ropes were down, and that they would learn to listen, > Pail after pail, stroke after patient stroke. They would > Wake in the night thinking they heard the wind in the trees > Or a night bird, but their hearts beating harder. There > Would be a whistle, a hum, a high murmur, and, at last, a song, > The low song a lost boy sings remembering his mother's call. > Not a cruel song, no, no, not cruel at all. This song > Is sweet. It is sweet. The heart dies of this sweetness. > > > by Brigit Pegeen Kelly, > Song, BOA Editions, Ltd. ? 1995 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 26 14:03:00 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:03:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com><8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CEC2D064EFA456-2760-117C7@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> The Design Inside Them At six every night the women sit on chairs under the vine leaves or out on the street in front of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds with white string to cover the windows, tables and pillows. One of the women serves me a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. A daughter comes through the billowing curtain in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman and goes away. She will never be like them. Her little sister goes from the mother and stands near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away again to the kittens and the man. As though a string is tied to her waist and unravels like their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. by Linda Gregg All Of It Singing:New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sun Feb 26 14:13:44 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:13:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC2D064EFA456-2760-117C7@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com><8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CEC2D064EFA456-2760-117C7@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James.? Nervous, too.? Curious and nervous. --JohnJ >________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > > >The Design Inside Them > > > >At six every night the women sit on chairs >under the vine leaves or out on the street in front >of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. >The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell >it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. >They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds >with white string to cover the windows, >tables and pillows. One of the women serves me >a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. >A daughter comes through the billowing curtain >in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman >and goes away. She will never be like them. >Her little sister goes from the mother and stands >near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. >Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. >Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away >again to the kittens and the man. As though >a string is tied to her waist and unravels like >their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. >Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. >? >by Linda Gregg >All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) > > >/ > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 26 14:47:11 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:47:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CEC20D7D3BA2C6-B68-7DF2@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com><8CEC2110D457FF2-1F54-198B@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com><8CEC2D064EFA456-2760-117C7@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEC2D690FB2778-358-AD27@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> You can't not goad me into answering that question. -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James. Nervous, too. Curious and nervous. --JohnJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 26 17:02:58 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:02:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Quoth Message-ID: <8CEC2E988CFBDBA-12A8-B27C@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com> Poetry is the dance of truth among limits which are its occasion and which it explodes. ?Lewis Thompson, Fathomless Heart: The Spiritual and Philosophical Reflections of an English Poet-Sage (DharmaCafe Books/North Atlantic Books, 2011), edited with an introduction by Richard Lannoy / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Feb 26 17:13:02 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:13:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Follow the Leader of My Silken Teeth / A Symphony in Scarlet & Navy -- Sunday night Message-ID: <1330294382.93315.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Another brilliant production by Ana Bo?i?evi?, starring Sara Jane Stoner and Julia Heim as two ends of the same playing card? ~ From I Want to Make You Safe - Follow the Leader of My Silken Teeth - http://vimeo.com/37483725 Please enjoy responsibly, Amy -- "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 26 17:15:41 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:15:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem Message-ID: <8CEC2EB4EF85290-C64-B828@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> The Goat God To the boy who comes in summer the country is a land of green mysteries. Certain kinds of plants are bad for the she-goat: her paunch begins to swell and she has to run it off. When a man's had his fun with a girl? girls are hairy down there?her paunch swells with a baby. The boys snigger and brag when they're herding the nannies, but once the sun goes down, they start looking nervous and scared. The boys can tell if a snake's been around, they know by the wriggling trail he leaves behind him in the dust. But nobody knows when a snake is sliding through the grass. The nannies know. There are nannies who like to lie in the grass, on top of the snake, they like being suckled. Girls like it too, they like being touched. When the moon rises, the nannies get skittish, and the boys have to round them up and prod them home. Otherwise, the wild goat goes berserk. Rearing up in the meadow, ramping, he gores the nannies and disappears. Sometimes girls in heat come down to the woods, at night, alone; they lie in the grass and bleat, and the wild billy comes running. But once the moon is high, he goes berserk, he gores them. and that's why the bitches bay in the moonlight, because they've caught the scent of the wild goat leaping on the hill, they've sniffed the smell of blood. And the animals in the stalls start quivering. All but the hounds, the big ones, they're gnawing at their ropes, and one, a male, breaks loose and tears off after the goat, and the goat spatters the dogs with blood?hotter, redder than any fire?until they're all crazy drunk, wild with blood, dancing and ramping and howling at the moon. At dawn the dog comes home, savaged and snarling, and the bitch is his reward. The peasants kick her to him. If the boys come home at dark, with one of the nannies missing, or a girl goes roaming at night, they're punished, beaten. They make their women pregnant, the peasants, and go on working just the same. Day or night they wander where they like. They aren't afraid of hoeing by moonlight, or making a bonfire of weeds and brush in the dark. And that's why the ground is so beautifully green, and the plowed fields at dawn are the color of sunburned faces. They harvest the grapes, they eat and sing. They husk the corn, they dance and drink. The girls are all giggling, then one girl suddenly remembers the wild goat. Up there, on the hilltop, in the woods and rocky ravines, the peasants saw him butting his head against the trees, looking for the nannies. He's gone wild, and the reason why is this: If you don't make an animal work, if you keep him only for stud, he likes to hurt, he kills. Cesare Pavese, translated from Italian by William Arrowsmith / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Feb 26 19:33:37 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 19:33:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] ON THE ROAD with BOB HOLMAN on LINK TV Message-ID: <8CEC2FE948D5BA8-EF8-1438@webmail-m172.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 09:07:39 -0800 From: Ram Devineni Subject: ON THE ROAD with BOB HOLMAN on LINK TV Dear Friends: I am excited to announce the first travel/poetry series airing on LINK TV. The show, ON THE ROAD WITH BOB HOLMAN follows the popular slam poet as he discovers the roots of spoken-word while traveling the globe. Along the way, he gets passionately immersed in the Endangered Language crisis. Imagine Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservation," but focused on languages! I produced the show with my friend, Beatriz Seigner, and it has been showing on LINK TV and on their website. Episode one: http://www.linktv.org/programs/on-the-road-episode-1 Episode two: http://www.linktv.org/programs/on-the-road-episode-2 Episode three: http://www.linktv.org/programs/on-the-road-episode-3 After watching the show, please add comments on LINK TV's site. Also, checkout the show's site at http://rattapallax.com/blog/on_the_road/ Lastly, join Bob and me for a screening, performance and party to celebrate the show on Feb. 29, 2012 at 7pm at the Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (Between Houston and Bleecker), New York City. Also, catch us at AWP Conference in Chicago on Saturday, March 3 at 4:30pm. Hope to see you soon! Cheers Ram Devineni -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Feb 27 10:52:29 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:52:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Why so insecure, John? --- On Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James.? Nervous, too.? Curious and nervous. --JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem The Design Inside Them At six every night the women sit on chairs under the vine leaves or out on the street in front of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds with white string to cover the windows, tables and pillows. One of the women serves me a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. A daughter comes through the billowing curtain in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman and goes away. She will never be like them. Her little sister goes from the mother and stands near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away again to the kittens and the man. As though a string is tied to her waist and unravels like their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. ? by Linda Gregg All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) / _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Feb 27 11:34:34 2012 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:34:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Makes me feel faint. - Jim On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:52 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Why so insecure, John? > > --- On *Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey * wrote: > > > From: John Jeffrey > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM > > I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James. Nervous, > too. Curious and nervous. > > --JohnJ > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > > The Design Inside Them > > > At six every night the women sit on chairs > under the vine leaves or out on the street in front > of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. > The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell > it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. > They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds > with white string to cover the windows, > tables and pillows. One of the women serves me > a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. > A daughter comes through the billowing curtain > in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman > and goes away. She will never be like them. > Her little sister goes from the mother and stands > near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. > Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. > Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away > again to the kittens and the man. As though > a string is tied to her waist and unravels like > their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. > Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. > > by Linda Gregg > *All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems *(Graywolf Press, 2008) > > / > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Feb 27 12:04:26 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:04:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330362266.7301.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Goats must be stopped. >________________________________ > From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 10:52 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > > >Why so insecure, John? > >--- On Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey wrote: > > >>From: John Jeffrey >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem >>To: "NewPoetry List" >>Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM >> >> >>I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James.? Nervous, too.? Curious and nervous. >> >> >>--JohnJ >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>________________________________ >>> From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem >>> >>> >>>The Design Inside Them >>> >>> >>> >>>At six every night the women sit on chairs >>>under the vine leaves or out on the street in front >>>of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. >>>The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell >>>it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. >>>They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds >>>with white string to cover the windows, >>>tables and pillows. One of the women serves me >>>a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. >>>A daughter comes through the billowing curtain >>>in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman >>>and goes away. She will never be like them. >>>Her little sister goes from the mother and stands >>>near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. >>>Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. >>>Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away >>>again to the kittens and the man. As though >>>a string is tied to her waist and unravels like >>>their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. >>>Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. >>>? >>>by Linda Gregg >>>All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) >>> >>> >>>/ >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 27 13:11:07 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:11:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: PoemoftheWeek.org- Stephen Dobyns In-Reply-To: <20120226203255.29619@web001.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20120226203255.29619@web001.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <8CEC3925014810B-1C60-104DC@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: PoemoftheWeek at poemoftheweek.org To: andrewmcfadyenketchum Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 8:32 pm Subject: PoemoftheWeek.org- Stephen Dobyns Dear PoemoftheWeek Subscriber, This week PoemoftheWeek.org features one of my favorite poems by Stephen Dobyns, "Cemetery Nights," from his seminal collection of the same title. Also included are a number of video-recordings of Dobyns reading his work, a fantastic interview by Ginger Murchison from The Cortland Review, two reviews of Dobyns' latest collection by David Rigsbee and Chad deNiord, and an author bio. Enjoy! My best, Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, Founder & Editor Contact us at AndrewMcFadyenKetchum at PoemoftheWeek.org Donate to PoemoftheWeek.org at http://poemoftheweek.org/id294.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 27 13:33:54 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:33:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] ars poetica library: wabi-sabi Message-ID: <8CEC3957ED810A9-1C60-10805@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Many of you may know this short book (clearly written; nicely illustrated) but it's a very good introduction to an important notion in Japanese/Asian aesthetics... Wabi-Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets & Philsophers by Leonard Koren Aesthetics, Philosophy Imperfect Publishing 2008 http://www.amazon.com/Wabi-Sabi-Artists-Designers-Poets-Philosophers/dp/0981484603/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1 - Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Feb 27 14:58:58 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:58:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330362266.7301.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1330362266.7301.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They are the one per billion! On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:04 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Goats must be stopped. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 10:52 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > > Why so insecure, John? > > --- On *Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey * wrote: > > > From: John Jeffrey > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM > > I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James. Nervous, > too. Curious and nervous. > > --JohnJ > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem > > The Design Inside Them > > > At six every night the women sit on chairs > under the vine leaves or out on the street in front > of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. > The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell > it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. > They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds > with white string to cover the windows, > tables and pillows. One of the women serves me > a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. > A daughter comes through the billowing curtain > in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman > and goes away. She will never be like them. > Her little sister goes from the mother and stands > near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. > Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. > Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away > again to the kittens and the man. As though > a string is tied to her waist and unravels like > their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. > Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. > > by Linda Gregg > *All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems *(Graywolf Press, 2008) > > / > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 27 19:23:17 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:23:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330362266.7301.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1330283624.63629.YahooMailNeo@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><1330357949.64169.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1330362266.7301.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEC3C64D426D26-B38-1298F@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> I goat a million of 'em. -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 2:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Goats must be stopped. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Why so insecure, John? --- On Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James. Nervous, too. Curious and nervous. --JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem The Design Inside Them At six every night the women sit on chairs under the vine leaves or out on the street in front of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds with white string to cover the windows, tables and pillows. One of the women serves me a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. A daughter comes through the billowing curtain in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman and goes away. She will never be like them. Her little sister goes from the mother and stands near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away again to the kittens and the man. As though a string is tied to her waist and unravels like their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. by Linda Gregg All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) / _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Feb 27 20:40:38 2012 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham-RC) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:40:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Interview with David Kirby Message-ID: http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_kirby2.php ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Feb 27 21:19:38 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 21:19:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism Message-ID: <8CEC3D68E9226D0-B38-1333A@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. No doubt many poets believe that capitalism leads to both homogeneity and instability, and the best among them subtly critique the consumerism and excess that one finds in all affluent societies, America in particular. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 28 06:28:26 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:28:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <8CEC3D68E9226D0-B38-1333A@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC3D68E9226D0-B38-1333A@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0C18F97B86A046538B9A9131F9B9CE94@BobHP> From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that. Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 28 07:10:32 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:10:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <8CEC3D68E9226D0-B38-1333A@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC3D68E9226D0-B38-1333A@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Unluckily I lent this book, thus no references to be remembered, but broadly speaking it was written by an Indian (from India) who lived in the States and was a Christian Catholic priest. I remember he stated, *yes, sure, the bucolic wild life, try to tell a 20-year-old Indian (in India) to go back to his grandfather's hut in the jungle...* On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:19 AM, wrote: > http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism > > In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century > (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets > -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of > their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and > economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy > in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is > right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied > with capitalism. > > No doubt many poets believe that capitalism leads to both homogeneity > and instability, and the best among them subtly critique the consumerism > and excess that one finds in all affluent societies, America in particular. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 09:22:42 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:22:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <0C18F97B86A046538B9A9131F9B9CE94@BobHP> Message-ID: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic?experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 6:28 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism ? In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. ? Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that.? Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. ? --Bob ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 09:25:54 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:25:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330439154.75143.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Recall Wilde's preface in Dorian Gray: " All art is useless." A rallying cry for the ideology of art for arts sake. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:22 AM This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic?experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 6:28 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism ? In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. ? Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that.? Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. ? --Bob ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 09:30:37 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:30:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330439154.75143.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330439437.33881.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... which begat the critical realism of Hungarian Marxist George Lukas, and the critical writings of Bertold Brecht. Which in turn led to the Aesthetics of the modern era and the writings of Walter Benjamin, opposed equally to simplistic right and left thinking. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:25 AM Recall Wilde's preface in Dorian Gray: " All art is useless." A rallying cry for the ideology of art for arts sake. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:22 AM This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic?experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 6:28 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism ? In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. ? Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that.? Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. ? --Bob ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 09:34:54 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:34:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <8CEC3C64D426D26-B38-1298F@webmail-d022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1330439694.93336.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I especially hate tax dodging, corporate goats. Them, with their capital gains, and their dividends. --- On Mon, 2/27/12, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 7:23 PM I goat a million of 'em. -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 2:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Goats must be stopped. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Why so insecure, John? --- On Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James.? Nervous, too.? Curious and nervous. --JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem The Design Inside Them At six every night the women sit on chairs under the vine leaves or out on the street in front of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds with white string to cover the windows, tables and pillows. One of the women serves me a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. A daughter comes through the billowing curtain in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman and goes away. She will never be like them. Her little sister goes from the mother and stands near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away again to the kittens and the man. As though a string is tied to her waist and unravels like their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. ? by Linda Gregg All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) / _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 28 09:38:28 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:38:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:22 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. Which has nothing to do with intelligent aesthetic experience (i.e., dedicated to a lot more than shallow sensual gratification, and not conscienceless) as an end in itself?or, at least, as a primary end of artistic endeavor. Let the politicians take care of telling other people how to live their lives. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 09:45:39 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:45:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330440339.63838.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Politicians love to tell other people how to live their lives. They want to Run the lives of people. & their comments are basically, well, retarded. ? More than mere sensual pleasure, the aesthete is one who appreciates beauty (the work, the Thing itself, for the qualities it possesses/Period). In this sense, I'm a aesthete. ? Wilde was involved in a character study with Dorian. The man knew his material. ? Other points of view are merely a way of putting art into context via capitalism, and other social forces at work. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:38 AM From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:22 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. ? Which has nothing to do with intelligent aesthetic experience (i.e., dedicated to a lot more than shallow sensual gratification, and not conscienceless) as an end in itself?or, at least, as a primary end of artistic endeavor.? Let the politicians take care of telling other people how to live their lives. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lena at literbug.com Tue Feb 28 12:08:00 2012 From: lena at literbug.com (Lena Firestone) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:08:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Poetry Submissions: LiterBug Message-ID: LiterBug is a social innovation in contemporary poetry; it bridges the gap between a social network and a literary journal by offering writers an interactive alternative for publishing their work. We publish new work daily from established and emerging authors alike. You may submit up to three poems at a time. Our response time is less than 72 hours. www.LiterBug.com/submit/ From lattaj at umich.edu Tue Feb 28 12:13:44 2012 From: lattaj at umich.edu (John Latta) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:13:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Gloucester's Fort Neighborhood Threatened In-Reply-To: References: <1329509689.95446.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Forwarding this from Peter Anastas, author of the Olson memoir, From Gloucester Out. He's asking us to: "Sign this petition and forward it to friends, poets, Olson and Gloucester lovers, who live outside of the city. We are fighting hard to save Olson's neighborhood from the development of a luxury resort hotel at the Birdseye site, proposed by billionaire Jim Davis, owner of New Balance shoes. If the Fort goes, so will the rest of the waterfront. Can you imagine a high-end hotel in this iconic working class, ethnic neighborhood? Olson would be turning over in his grave." http://signon.org/sign/non-residents-supporting Thanks. From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 28 13:37:49 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:37:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FEBRUARY POETRY BEST-SELLERS! SPD AT AWP! In-Reply-To: <1109398619084.1103707940910.3941.12.12080001@scheduler> References: <1109398619084.1103707940910.3941.12.12080001@scheduler> Message-ID: <8CEC45F34D575E4-19F8-2FD0@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Clay "Booth 404" Banes @ Small Press Distribution To: jforjames Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 8:02 am Subject: FEBRUARY POETRY BEST-SELLERS! SPD AT AWP! Having trouble viewing this email?Come visit us at AWP booth 404! SPD will be in the Bookfair at AWP's Chicago Conference, booth 404. Please drop by to say hello! VIEW OUR AUTHOR SIGNINGS @ AWP SPD's POETRY BEST-SELLERS FEB. 2012 The Atlantic House by Regan Good (Harry Tankoos Books) Burning City: Poems of Metropolitan Modernity by Jed Rasula and Tim Conley, Editors (Action Books) Journey to the Sun by Brent Cunningham (Atelos) This Can't Be Life by Dana Ward (Edge Books) The Oregon Trail Is the Oregon Trail by Gregory Sherl (Mud Luscious Press) Goat in the Snow by Emily Pettit (Birds, LLC) An Atlas of Lost Causes by Marjorie Stein (Kelsey Street Press) The Hole by Thom Donovan (Displaced Press) Conflict by Norman Fischer (Chax Press) Chinoiserie by Karen Rigby (Ahsahta Press) Sancta by Andrew Grace (Ahsahta Press) The Malady of the Century by Jon Leon (Futurepoem Books) Desolation : Souvenir by Paul Hoover (Omnidawn Publishing) Skin Horse by Olivia Cronk (Action Books) The Falling Horse by Julia Johnson (Factory Hollow Press) Y?ng?l?shi: Sinophonic English Poetry and Poetics by Jonathan Stalling (Counterpath Press) Plunge by Alice Jones (Apogee Press) The Book of a Thousand Eyes by Lyn Hejinian (Omnidawn Publishing) Drastic Dislocations: New and Selected Poems by Barry Wallenstein (NYQ Books) My Love Is a Dead Arctic Explorer by Paige Ackerson-Kiely (Ahsahta Press) @spdbooks AWP BOOTH 404. PLEASE SEE BRENT AND ME. Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by clay at spdbooks.org | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. Small Press Distribution | 1341 Seventh Street | Berkeley | CA | 94710 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 28 14:21:10 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:21:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Subversive Poetics of Alfred Jarry Message-ID: <8CEC465434D01C4-1BAC-45E6@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> http://bristol.ac.uk/news/2012/8209.html The Subversive Poetics of Alfred Jarry: Ubusing Culture in the Almanachs du P?re Ubu is a generously illustrated study which examines key characteristics of Jarry's poetics through an analysis of the Almanacs and addresses their role within the European avant-garde. Alfred Jarry (1873-1907) is known primarily as the eccentric author of the Ubu plays and the creator of their outrageous hero P?re Ubu. Indeed, anecdotes about Jarry?s bohemian lifestyle have largely overshadowed the merits of his writing. With the exception of his best-known play Ubu Roi (1896), his texts have tended to remain the preserve of a handful of scholars, amateurs and artists. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 15:07:38 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:07:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330440339.63838.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330459658.61379.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... then we move on to the Marxist Fredric Jameson, and the French philosopher, Jean Baudrillard. Capitalism, for Baudrillard, is an arena of mutually reinforcing, self-referential images and signs. & reality is beyond representation, the product of information and opinion polls ... ... who begat Roland Barthes, a very entertaining writer who analysed the semiology (meaning of signs & symbols) in pop culture. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:45 AM Politicians love to tell other people how to live their lives. They want to Run the lives of people. & their comments are basically, well, retarded. ? More than mere sensual pleasure, the aesthete is one who appreciates beauty (the work, the Thing itself, for the qualities it possesses/Period). In this sense, I'm a aesthete. ? Wilde was involved in a character study with Dorian. The man knew his material. ? Other points of view are merely a way of putting art into context via capitalism, and other social forces at work. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:38 AM From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:22 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. ? Which has nothing to do with intelligent aesthetic experience (i.e., dedicated to a lot more than shallow sensual gratification, and not conscienceless) as an end in itself?or, at least, as a primary end of artistic endeavor.? Let the politicians take care of telling other people how to live their lives. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 15:10:00 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:10:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: goat poem Message-ID: <1330459800.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> No more goats! No more goats! what do we want? No more goats! --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:34 AM I especially hate tax dodging, corporate goats. Them, with their capital gains, and their dividends. --- On Mon, 2/27/12, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 7:23 PM I goat a million of 'em. -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 2:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Goats must be stopped. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem Why so insecure, John? --- On Sun, 2/26/12, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:13 PM I'm a little curious why you know so many goat poems, James.? Nervous, too.? Curious and nervous. --JohnJ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] goat poem The Design Inside Them At six every night the women sit on chairs under the vine leaves or out on the street in front of the houses on whitewashed rocks crocheting. The talk in Greek is too fast for me, but I can tell it is about prices in Mytilene compared to here. They make pictures of flowers and leaves and birds with white string to cover the windows, tables and pillows. One of the women serves me a piece of cake in syrup and a glass of water. A daughter comes through the billowing curtain in the doorway. She is fifteen and wants a Walkman and goes away. She will never be like them. Her little sister goes from the mother and stands near a man who is feeding olive branches to his goat. Then to the new kittens and back to her mother. Sits quiet in the chatter and industry, and then away again to the kittens and the man. As though a string is tied to her waist and unravels like their idea of justice and good and gentle kindness. Gathers up again as the old swallows and flowers. ? by Linda Gregg All Of It Singing: New & Selected Poems (Graywolf Press, 2008) / _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 15:20:15 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:20:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330459658.61379.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330460415.88727.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... & from there we move to Julia Kristeva and the "feminist" understanding of identity. Her critique of patriachy is shared by Helen Cixious and Luce Irigaray. ... & from there we end up with Jacpes Derrida and his link between patriachy and the tradition of philosophy derived from Plato's metaphyics, a tradition Derrida refered to as "phallo-logocentric." Derrida questioned, or deconstructed all Western philosophy, and its dependence on binary opposites which revealed their dependence upon each other. Derrida's approach plunges meaning and truth into question by marking a third, ambigious term, upon which binary oppositions are structured. There, my brief seminar. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 3:07 PM ... then we move on to the Marxist Fredric Jameson, and the French philosopher, Jean Baudrillard. Capitalism, for Baudrillard, is an arena of mutually reinforcing, self-referential images and signs. & reality is beyond representation, the product of information and opinion polls ... ... who begat Roland Barthes, a very entertaining writer who analysed the semiology (meaning of signs & symbols) in pop culture. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:45 AM Politicians love to tell other people how to live their lives. They want to Run the lives of people. & their comments are basically, well, retarded. ? More than mere sensual pleasure, the aesthete is one who appreciates beauty (the work, the Thing itself, for the qualities it possesses/Period). In this sense, I'm a aesthete. ? Wilde was involved in a character study with Dorian. The man knew his material. ? Other points of view are merely a way of putting art into context via capitalism, and other social forces at work. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:38 AM From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:22 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. ? Which has nothing to do with intelligent aesthetic experience (i.e., dedicated to a lot more than shallow sensual gratification, and not conscienceless) as an end in itself?or, at least, as a primary end of artistic endeavor.? Let the politicians take care of telling other people how to live their lives. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Feb 28 16:04:29 2012 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:04:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Subversive Poetics of Alfred Jarry In-Reply-To: <8CEC465434D01C4-1BAC-45E6@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CEC465434D01C4-1BAC-45E6@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ah Jarry, le docteur en Pataphysique! On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:21 PM, wrote: > http://bristol.ac.uk/news/2012/8209.html > > The Subversive Poetics of Alfred Jarry: Ubusing Culture in the Almanachs > du P?re Ubu is a generously illustrated study which examines key > characteristics of Jarry's poetics through an analysis of the Almanacs and > addresses their role within the European avant-garde. > > Alfred Jarry (1873-1907) is known primarily as the eccentric author of > the Ubu plays and the creator of their outrageous hero P?re Ubu. Indeed, > anecdotes about Jarry?s bohemian lifestyle have largely overshadowed the > merits of his writing. With the exception of his best-known play Ubu Roi > (1896), his texts have tended to remain the preserve of a handful of > scholars, amateurs and artists. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Feb 28 16:19:12 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:19:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330460415.88727.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330460415.88727.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ... & from there we move to Julia Kristeva and the "feminist" understanding of identity. Her critique of patriachy is shared by Helen Cixious and Luce Irigaray. ... & from there we end up with Jacques Derrida and his link between patriachy and the tradition of philosophy derived from Plato's metaphyics, a tradition Derrida refered to as "phallo-logocentric." Derrida questioned, or deconstructed all Western philosophy, and its dependence on binary opposites which revealed their dependence upon each other. Derrida's approach plunges meaning and truth into question by marking a third, ambigious term, upon which binary oppositions are structured. There, my brief seminar. Pretty full round-up of the top nullinguists of the latter half of the last century, and whom I would characterize by a certain name if not that I don?t want to offend poor sensitive Mike Snider. But at least they were creatively ridiculous, unlike their followers. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 16:36:12 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:36:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330464972.93807.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Derrida, too, very original ... & often right, but the amount of bad writing that followed from university deconstruction says little about his influence. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 4:19 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? ... & from there we move to Julia Kristeva and the "feminist" understanding of identity. Her critique of patriachy is shared by Helen Cixious and Luce Irigaray. ... & from there we end up with Jacques Derrida and his link between patriachy and the tradition of philosophy derived from Plato's metaphyics, a tradition Derrida refered to as "phallo-logocentric." Derrida questioned, or deconstructed all Western philosophy, and its dependence on binary opposites which revealed their dependence upon each other. Derrida's approach plunges meaning and truth into question by marking a third, ambigious term, upon which binary oppositions are structured. There, my brief seminar. ? Pretty full round-up of the top nullinguists of the latter half of the last century, and whom I would characterize by a certain name if not that I don?t want to offend poor sensitive Mike Snider.? But at least they were creatively ridiculous, unlike their followers. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 16:34:14 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:34:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1330464854.70626.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> creatively ridiculous that they were ... & yes, their followers were tedious, academic, follow-the-leader pen pushers. Roland Barthes was often entertaining. He wrote brilliantly about sports. & Jean Baudrillard was unique ... amazing amount of fuel from one, or, at most, 2 ideas. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 4:19 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? ... & from there we move to Julia Kristeva and the "feminist" understanding of identity. Her critique of patriachy is shared by Helen Cixious and Luce Irigaray. ... & from there we end up with Jacques Derrida and his link between patriachy and the tradition of philosophy derived from Plato's metaphyics, a tradition Derrida refered to as "phallo-logocentric." Derrida questioned, or deconstructed all Western philosophy, and its dependence on binary opposites which revealed their dependence upon each other. Derrida's approach plunges meaning and truth into question by marking a third, ambigious term, upon which binary oppositions are structured. There, my brief seminar. ? Pretty full round-up of the top nullinguists of the latter half of the last century, and whom I would characterize by a certain name if not that I don?t want to offend poor sensitive Mike Snider.? But at least they were creatively ridiculous, unlike their followers. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 16:57:26 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:57:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330464972.93807.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330466246.70941.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I forgot John Berger. Another Marxist, and a better writer than Jameson. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 4:36 PM Derrida, too, very original ... & often right, but the amount of bad writing that followed from university deconstruction says little about his influence. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 4:19 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:20 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? ... & from there we move to Julia Kristeva and the "feminist" understanding of identity. Her critique of patriachy is shared by Helen Cixious and Luce Irigaray. ... & from there we end up with Jacques Derrida and his link between patriachy and the tradition of philosophy derived from Plato's metaphyics, a tradition Derrida refered to as "phallo-logocentric." Derrida questioned, or deconstructed all Western philosophy, and its dependence on binary opposites which revealed their dependence upon each other. Derrida's approach plunges meaning and truth into question by marking a third, ambigious term, upon which binary oppositions are structured. There, my brief seminar. ? Pretty full round-up of the top nullinguists of the latter half of the last century, and whom I would characterize by a certain name if not that I don?t want to offend poor sensitive Mike Snider.? But at least they were creatively ridiculous, unlike their followers. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Feb 28 19:53:34 2012 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:53:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?One_More_Time_With_Feeling!=3A_VIDA?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_2011_Count_is_Hot_Off_The_Press=2E?= Message-ID: <1330476814.1152.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> One More Time With Feeling!: VIDA?s 2011 Count is Hot Off The Press. ? In 2010, our organization, VIDA: Women In Literary Arts, took on a seemingly simple project: to count the rates of publication between women and men in many of our writing world?s most respected literary outlets.? We decided to count as what we frequently heard people say about gender discrimination in the publishing world was entirely anecdotal (one of our favorite examples: the Established Male Novelist?s comment to his reading audience that all is well with gender issues in publishing as he personally works out next to a Famous Woman Writer at his gym).? So we counted. We made some very attractive pie charts to illustrate some very disturbing numbers. And then we released the information, frankly wondering if anyone would pay attention to our discoveries. Pay attention, they did. Immediately, the literary community went into hyper drive responding to the information VIDA had gathered: furious debates over The Count took place in comment boxes, both nationally and internationally; women writers are discriminated against and should be righteously indignant; women writers are whiners and should simply write better books; women writers should write about more ?important? subjects; women writers? subjects are just as important as male writers?, dammit!; women writers? subject matter isn?t inherently different than men?s, it?s just reviewed differently; women writers should submit more work to magazines; male writers should submit less; editors should actively solicit more work from women writers? VIDA?s Count produced scores of responses, from editors at the most prestigious magazines to undergraduate writing students? blogs?all wanting a share in a conversation that it appears many believe is necessary and long overdue. So this year we?ve done it again. We hope VIDA?s Count will go on annually until that glorious time when it is no longer needed. Here?s the short version: the publication numbers don?t look markedly different than last year?s. But we at VIDA aren?t discouraged by this fact--we know that significant cultural change takes time. We also know that this is a conversation that?s not going away; when we talk to other writers, when we talk to our writing students, we know things are in the process of changing for the better, that our literary culture?s consciousness has been raised. And we believe we?ve begun to see hopeful signs. Yes, many literary outlets still produced their phallocentric Best Books list this year. But notice how careful most of them were to create some context for their lists? inherent subjectivity. ?The word ?Best? now has a permanent asterisk next to it, no matter where you line up in our writing community?s gender debate. And to acknowledge your bias is one step toward opening your mind. We?ve come a long way since Publishers? Weekly breezily dismissed the total absence of women in their top ten list of 2009.? But we at VIDA know there?s more work to do and we?re committed to creating more opportunities for women writers in the future. We welcome you to VIDA and hope you?ll join the conversation. ??http://www.vidaweb.org/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "Amy King?s poems seem to encompass all that we think of as the 'natural' world ..." ???????????????? --John Ashbery ( http://www.litmuspress.org/iwanttomakeyousafe.html ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 28 21:11:57 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:11:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEC49EA6187EF4-1040-3964@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> Wilde was a very astute social critic, even if did so at oblique angles. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 6:28 AM From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that. Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Feb 28 21:53:42 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:53:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] goat poem In-Reply-To: <1330439694.93336.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330439694.93336.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CEC4A47AB3646F-1040-3E06@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> You can run but you can't hide...title poem of #6 on the recently posted SPD poetry bestseller list... http://www.pen.org/blog/?p=6329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Feb 28 21:55:40 2012 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:55:40 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?One_More_Time_With_Feeling!=3A_VIDA?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_2011_Count_is_Hot_Off_The_Press=2E?= In-Reply-To: <1330476814.1152.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1330476814.1152.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This continues to be good work, and VIDA has certainly made me change my approach, making me more conscious of the choices I am making and who I am willing to take a chance on. But taking credit for editors of "Best" lists and anthologies noting that their collections are inherently subjective has been the general case for a long time. I cant think of an anthology I've read or skimmed in the last five years that didn't make this relatively clear. When you get those editors to admit to being phallocentric, *that* will be an accomplishment of very real credit to VIDA. c On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:53 PM, amy king wrote: > One More Time With Feeling!: VIDA?s 2011 Count is Hot Off The Press. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 29 06:57:52 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:57:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <8CEC49EA6187EF4-1040-3964@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> References: <1330438962.30879.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CEC49EA6187EF4-1040-3964@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7E0DF0DE99B3405DB2144D7253FA4991@BobHP> From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:11 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism Wilde was a very astute social critic, even if did so at oblique angles. Finnegan Right, but in essays (non-art although very artistic) and plays and his novel (just one, I think) and various kinds of stories in which one?s views of society can?t be concealed; his main purpose was always to give pleasure, not raise anyone?s political-consciousness so he?d vote the proper way. He was about as individualistic as one can be yet espoused collectivist opinions. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 09:14:27 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:14:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <7E0DF0DE99B3405DB2144D7253FA4991@BobHP> Message-ID: <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. Suffering tends to modify one's world view, and Wilde thought deeply about matters social, and artistic. Not merely the artist & society, but man & society. ? ? The Soul of Man under Socialism: (wikipedia) -- ? ? Wilde examined the political conditions necessary for full self-development and devotion to art, arguing, "Art is individualism, and individualism is a disturbing and disintegrating force. There lies its immense value. For what it seeks to disturb is monotony of type, slavery of custom, tyranny of habit, and the reduction of man to the level of a machine."[5] ? In a socialist society, people will have the possibility to realise their talents; "each member of the society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society." Wilde added that "upon the other hand, Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to individualism" since individuals will no longer need to fear poverty or starvation. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 6:57 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:11 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? Wilde was a very astute social critic, even if did so at oblique angles. Finnegan ? Right, but in essays (non-art although very artistic) and plays and his novel (just one, I think) and various kinds of stories in which one?s views of society can?t be concealed; his main purpose was always to give pleasure, not raise anyone?s political-consciousness so he?d vote the proper way.? He was about as individualistic as one can be yet espoused collectivist opinions. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 09:26:12 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:26:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <8CEC49EA6187EF4-1040-3964@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1330525572.76376.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Most discussion involving capitalism is a mere parlor game for academics. What do they have at stake? &, for the most part, little original is said. American academics mimic the French. Camelia Palgia pointed this out. Little academics parroting anything French. They know nothing. Working class as well as middle class struggle is remote to them. Of course, Philip Levine made writing about the working class a mannerism. Back maybe 4 or 5 decades he may have had a crummy job. ? We could, for fun, divide poets in the same?manner?as politicians.??Elites/blue collar ... Wallace Stevens being a white collar insurance exec, while Bukowski is the working class stiff. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:11 PM Wilde was a very astute social critic, even if did so at oblique angles. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism This argument is 300 or more years old. The aesthete as exemplified by Oscar Wilde and Walter Pater, celebrated the aesthetic?experience as an end in itself. However, the downfall of the eponymous hero of Dorian Gray demonstrates the morbundity and self-destructiveness of a life dedicated to sensual gratification beyond the moral bounds of conscience. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 6:28 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/27/poets-and-capitalism ? In The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in the American Century (Harvard, 2011), Christopher Nealon explains that many 20th century poets -- particularly American -- have spoken out against capitalism because of their fear that capitalism causes cultural homogeneity and political and economic turmoil. Nealon's understanding of changes in the American economy in the second half of the 20th century is overly ideological, but he is right that the poetry of this period was (and continues to be) preoccupied with capitalism. ? Yeah, the quotation from Stevens about the eye of the blackbird proves that.? Lesson: political monomaniacs will find politics in everything. ? --Bob ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 29 12:44:15 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 12:44:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6004A3DC0DFF47ADAD18A899C35C5148@BobHP> From: stephen russell Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:14 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. Needless to say, it?s a complex subject, but I think he became much less than he had been due to his incarceration. Both De Profundis and his ballad are interesting works, but more than an order of magnitude less than his plays. Less by a good deal than his novel, too?and his few best lyrics. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 09:39:53 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:39:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330526393.16242.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Zizik influenced by Wilde: ? For anarchist historian George Woodcock "Wilde's aim in The Soul of Man Under Socialism is to seek the society most favorable to the artist...for Wilde art is the supreme end, containing within itself enlightenment and regeneration, to which all else in society must be subordinated...Wilde represents the anarchist as aesthete."[9] Woodcock called the essay, "The most ambitious contribution to literary anarchism during the 1890's" and finds that it is influenced mainly by the thought of William Godwin.[9] ? Political philosopher Slavoj Zizek shares Wildean sentiments and intellectual contempt for charity, noting that the problem of poverty will never be solved simply by keeping poor people alive, quoting the relevant passages from Wilde's essay in his lectures[10] and book[11]. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 9:14 AM Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. Suffering tends to modify one's world view, and Wilde thought deeply about matters social, and artistic. Not merely the artist & society, but man & society. ? ? The Soul of Man under Socialism: (wikipedia) -- ? ? Wilde examined the political conditions necessary for full self-development and devotion to art, arguing, "Art is individualism, and individualism is a disturbing and disintegrating force. There lies its immense value. For what it seeks to disturb is monotony of type, slavery of custom, tyranny of habit, and the reduction of man to the level of a machine."[5] ? In a socialist society, people will have the possibility to realise their talents; "each member of the society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society." Wilde added that "upon the other hand, Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to individualism" since individuals will no longer need to fear poverty or starvation. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 6:57 AM ? ? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:11 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? Wilde was a very astute social critic, even if did so at oblique angles. Finnegan ? Right, but in essays (non-art although very artistic) and plays and his novel (just one, I think) and various kinds of stories in which one?s views of society can?t be concealed; his main purpose was always to give pleasure, not raise anyone?s political-consciousness so he?d vote the proper way.? He was about as individualistic as one can be yet espoused collectivist opinions. ? --Bob? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 13:42:07 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:42:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism Message-ID: <1330540927.40072.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> they add another dimension to his oeuvre (the tortured, persecuted artist). &? in some ways are responsible for the myth of Wilde as a persecuted artist. The aesthete isn't forgotten, but that facet of Wilde has been supplanted. &, yes, not necessarily for the better. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 12:44 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:14 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. ? Needless to say, it?s a complex subject, but I think he became much less than he had been due to his incarceration.? Both De Profundis and his ballad are interesting works, but more than an order of magnitude less than his plays.? Less by a good deal than his novel, too?and his few best lyrics. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 13:51:25 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:51:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330540927.40072.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330541485.40525.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> contemporary thinkers still respond to Wilde. What other late 19th century writer can claim as much? Actually, there are a few ... but it's an elite company. Political philosopher Slavoj Zizek shares Wildean sentiments and intellectual contempt for charity, noting that the problem of poverty will never be solved simply by keeping poor people alive, quoting the relevant passages from Wilde's essay in his lectures[10] and book[11]. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 1:42 PM they add another dimension to his oeuvre (the tortured, persecuted artist). &? in some ways are responsible for the myth of Wilde as a persecuted artist. The aesthete isn't forgotten, but that facet of Wilde has been supplanted. &, yes, not necessarily for the better. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 12:44 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:14 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. ? Needless to say, it?s a complex subject, but I think he became much less than he had been due to his incarceration.? Both De Profundis and his ballad are interesting works, but more than an order of magnitude less than his plays.? Less by a good deal than his novel, too?and his few best lyrics. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Wed Feb 29 14:07:22 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:07:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines Message-ID: http://www.vidaweb.org/the-2011-count -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 14:07:43 2012 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:07:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330541485.40525.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330542463.59087.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> another example of a writer having an impact on contemporary affairs is G B Shaw, partly responsible for the London School of Economics. The Fabians were not without influence. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 1:51 PM contemporary thinkers still respond to Wilde. What other late 19th century writer can claim as much? Actually, there are a few ... but it's an elite company. Political philosopher Slavoj Zizek shares Wildean sentiments and intellectual contempt for charity, noting that the problem of poverty will never be solved simply by keeping poor people alive, quoting the relevant passages from Wilde's essay in his lectures[10] and book[11]. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 1:42 PM they add another dimension to his oeuvre (the tortured, persecuted artist). &? in some ways are responsible for the myth of Wilde as a persecuted artist. The aesthete isn't forgotten, but that facet of Wilde has been supplanted. &, yes, not necessarily for the better. --- On Wed, 2/29/12, bob grumman wrote: From: bob grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 12:44 PM ? ? From: stephen russell Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:14 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism ? Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. ? Needless to say, it?s a complex subject, but I think he became much less than he had been due to his incarceration.? Both De Profundis and his ballad are interesting works, but more than an order of magnitude less than his plays.? Less by a good deal than his novel, too?and his few best lyrics. ? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Feb 29 10:28:35 2012 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:28:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <7E0DF0DE99B3405DB2144D7253FA4991@BobHP> <1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330529315.27125.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> "'Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to individualism' since individuals will no longer need to fear poverty or starvation." He couldn't have been more wrong about that. >________________________________ > From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:14 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism > > >Wilde became more than an aesthete due to his incarceration. Suffering tends to modify one's world view, and Wilde thought deeply about matters social, and artistic. Not merely the artist & society, but man & society. >? >The Soul of Man under Socialism: (wikipedia) -- > > >Wilde examined the political conditions necessary for full self-development and devotion to art, arguing, "Art is individualism, and individualism is a disturbing and disintegrating force. There lies its immense value. For what it seeks to disturb is monotony of type, slavery of custom, tyranny of habit, and the reduction of man to the level of a machine."[5] >? >In a socialist society, people will have the possibility to realise their talents; "each member of the society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society." Wilde added that "upon the other hand, Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to individualism" since individuals will no longer need to fear poverty or starvation. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahadada at gol.com Wed Feb 29 15:07:02 2012 From: ahadada at gol.com (ahadada at gol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 20:07:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jarry Message-ID: Thanks for the heads up on that book! Jess From htthinc at gmail.com Wed Feb 29 15:41:55 2012 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 15:41:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shows that one woman is as good as ten or twenty men. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > http://www.vidaweb.org/the-2011-count > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Feb 29 17:09:09 2012 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 17:09:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CEC545E55C4C93-CFC-C692@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> Or that women can say more with fewer words. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:42 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines Shows that one woman is as good as ten or twenty men. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Tad Richards wrote: http://www.vidaweb.org/the-2011-count _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 29 17:53:53 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 17:53:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6EF2BDECAA0A4C06A5C359418BDAC305@BobHP> Non-Wilshberians or the equivalent . . . zero; Wilshberians or the equivalent . . . ten thousand; yet, if I complain that the ratio should be at least something to ten thousand, I?m an obsessive, narcissistic, bullying agitator. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Feb 29 18:02:51 2012 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bob grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:02:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism In-Reply-To: <1330529315.27125.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <7E0DF0DE99B3405DB2144D7253FA4991@BobHP><1330524867.87097.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1330529315.27125.YahooMailNeo@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <762FE71C9F934B7EB04743AA5E26B4C6@BobHP> From: John Jeffrey Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:28 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry and capitalism "'Socialism itself will be of value simply because it will lead to individualism' since individuals will no longer need to fear poverty or starvation." He couldn't have been more wrong about that. Right: socialism requires the surrender of one?s individuality in return for security from poverty and starvation?which, ironically, it can?t provide without the help of capitalism. I agree with so much of what Wilde wrote, I find his lack of perceptiveness on this strange. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theoldmole at gmail.com Wed Feb 29 19:16:19 2012 From: theoldmole at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:16:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Battle of the sexes in leading magazines In-Reply-To: <6EF2BDECAA0A4C06A5C359418BDAC305@BobHP> References: <6EF2BDECAA0A4C06A5C359418BDAC305@BobHP> Message-ID: Well, it's closer to the actual ratio.Not to say that you're not an obsessive, narcissistic, bullying agitator, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, bob grumman wrote: > Non-Wilshberians or the equivalent . . . zero; Wilshberians or the > equivalent . . . ten thousand; yet, if I complain that the ratio should be > at least *some*thing to ten thousand, I?m an obsessive, narcissistic, > bullying agitator. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: