From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun May 1 06:38:03 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 03:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> David, Ah, but you *can* "shout," ?bully and shame others, ad nauseam, in an attempt to speak in one's own special made-up terms, however reductive and insulting. ?Take Bob's latest attempt to shame people into discussion: Everything there, however, is non-Wilshberian, so here's your chance to get back at me for what some consider to be my sneers at the poetry of WIlshberia.? Or will you all ignore it--as I so often claim English department academics ignore all poetry outside Wilshberia? --Bob ___________________________ ? If you don't respond, then you're a blindered academic who teaches, touts, and tows some fictitious line called "Wilshberia," but if you do respond, well there may be hope for you. ?Instead of Bob asking folks to take a look at the site because he finds this particular set of visual poetry interesting for the follow reasons: _____, he insists on bullying folks into engagement through his artificial terms. ? I haven't had much time to dip into this list much this semester, but when I do, I can be certain to read a few posts from Bob that never only engage others on poetry and poetics, but they always include some thread, or are dominated by, his variety of bullying, name-calling and attempts to set and dictate the parameters of taste. ?This rough mentality is the basis of stereotyping, a nasty engagement. ?He may as well be saying all lawyers who don't argue for the eradication of civil disobedience drink snifters of thirty-year-old brandy and smoke Cubans at lunch time before retiring to their mansions. ?"Wilshberian" serves no useful purpose except to demonize and reduce someone, whose tastes likely range and contain multitudes, to a dog in a fight they didn't know existed, except in a very small pond New Poetry where if, you shout and insult enough, your squeaky wheel gets some grease. Not simply: ?can poetry be political, but also, can discussions on listservs be political? ?They always are. ?? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog OK, last post from me for a while on this topic, I promise. I have no problem with Bob liking the poetry he likes, or advocating for it, and often wish he would do so instead of using all the oxygen in the room berating others for not sufficiently recognizing his favorite stuff.? That's like standing day after day in a McDonalds and screaming that there's no sushi on the menu.? No, there isn't, and there won't be tomorrow, either. Sorry.? You can't shout people into having different taste, and most of the poetry reading public just doesn't have much of a taste for most of what Bob loves.? My problem with "Wishberia," as I've said often enough, is with the word itself as a critical term or category.? For reasons I've mentioned often and at length, I find the term "Wilshberia" at best useless, bordering on meaningless; at worst, Bob tends to use it as a shorthand sneer.? He also can't seem to make up his own mind whether the term describes technique, originality, institutional recognition and support, or the monolithic taste of something called "the academy."? Or some ill-defined mix of all the above.? Which points to one of the problems with the term:? such a vaguely defined and sweeping category really isn't very useful for clarifying anything.? It certainly doesn't help any reader see the distinctions and differences that go into quality. But it gets wearisome being our leading Wilshberian, especially since that makes me fictive head of an imaginary crew, like Santa presiding over his elves. . . .? I realize I have only myself to blame for suffering this distinction, being all too willing to engage with Bob on such matters over the years.? So I hereby resign my post as Lead Wishberian, and release my delegates to Tad Richards. Perhaps he could rotate the office between himself and Mike Snider, Jeff Newberry, Barry Spacks, Anny Ballardini, and others. . . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 1 09:08:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 15:08:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Amy, I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally a good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he says that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes you, well something similar. Another one of his personalities wants people to get angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, who anyhow write a lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. A nice Sunday, Anny On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, amy king wrote: > David, > > Ah, but you *can* "shout," bully and shame others, ad nauseam, in an > attempt to speak in one's own special made-up terms, however reductive and > insulting. Take Bob's latest attempt to shame people into discussion: > > Everything there, however, is non-Wilshberian, so here's your chance to get > back at me for what some consider to be my sneers at the poetry of > WIlshberia. Or will you all ignore it--as I so often claim English > department academics ignore all poetry outside Wilshberia? > > --Bob > ___________________________ > > If you don't respond, then you're a blindered academic who teaches, touts, > and tows some fictitious line called "Wilshberia," but if you do respond, > well there may be hope for you. Instead of Bob asking folks to take a look > at the site because he finds this particular set of visual poetry > interesting for the follow reasons: _____, he insists on bullying folks into > engagement through his artificial terms. > > I haven't had much time to dip into this list much this semester, but when > I do, I can be certain to read a few posts from Bob that never only engage > others on poetry and poetics, but they always include some thread, or are > dominated by, his variety of bullying, name-calling and attempts to set and > dictate the parameters of taste. This rough mentality is the basis of > stereotyping, a nasty engagement. He may as well be saying all lawyers who > don't argue for the eradication of civil disobedience drink snifters of > thirty-year-old brandy and smoke Cubans at lunch time before retiring to > their mansions. "Wilshberian" serves no useful purpose except to demonize > and reduce someone, whose tastes likely range and contain multitudes, to a > dog in a fight they didn't know existed, except in a very small pond New > Poetry where if, you shout and insult enough, your squeaky wheel gets some > grease. > > Not simply: can poetry be political, but also, can discussions on > listservs be political? They always are. > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2011 11:52 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog > > OK, last post from me for a while on this topic, I promise. > > I have no problem with Bob liking the poetry he likes, or advocating for > it, > and often wish he would do so instead of using all the oxygen in the room > berating others for not sufficiently recognizing his favorite stuff. > That's > like standing day after day in a McDonalds and screaming that there's no > sushi on the menu. No, there isn't, and there won't be tomorrow, either. > Sorry. You can't shout people into having different taste, and most of the > poetry reading public just doesn't have much of a taste for most of what > Bob > loves. > > My problem with "Wishberia," as I've said often enough, is with the word > itself as a critical term or category. For reasons I've mentioned often > and at length, I find the term "Wilshberia" at best useless, bordering on > meaningless; at worst, Bob tends to use it as a shorthand sneer. He also > can't seem to make up his own mind whether the term describes technique, > originality, institutional recognition and support, or the monolithic taste > of something called "the academy." Or some ill-defined mix of all the > above. > > Which points to one of the problems with the term: such a vaguely defined > and sweeping category really isn't very useful for clarifying anything. It > certainly doesn't help any reader see the distinctions and differences that > go into quality. > > But it gets wearisome being our leading Wilshberian, especially since that > makes me fictive head of an imaginary crew, like Santa presiding over his > elves. . . . I realize I have only myself to blame for suffering this > distinction, being all too willing to engage with Bob on such matters over > the years. > > So I hereby resign my post as Lead Wishberian, and release my delegates to > Tad Richards. Perhaps he could rotate the office between himself and Mike > Snider, Jeff Newberry, Barry Spacks, Anny Ballardini, and others. . . . > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 1 10:37:58 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 09:37:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBD7046.8020505@nut-n-but.net> On 5/1/2011 8:08 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Dear Amy, > > I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally > a good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these > personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he > says that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes > you, well something similar. Another one of his personalities wants > people to get angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, > who anyhow write a lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. > > A nice Sunday, Anny . Thanks, Anny. I fear you're not quite right about me, but I think you're a lot more correct about me than our shy voice of American poetry is. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 1 10:08:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 09:08:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBD7046.8020505@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBD7046.8020505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hard to be right about Bob. Not even Bob is right about Bob. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/1/2011 8:08 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Dear Amy, >> >> I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally a >> good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these >> personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he says >> that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes you, well >> something similar. Another one of his personalities wants people to get >> angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, who anyhow write a >> lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. >> >> A nice Sunday, Anny >> > . > Thanks, Anny. I fear you're not quite right about me, but I think you're a > lot more correct about me than our shy voice of American poetry is. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun May 1 12:15:08 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 09:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Anny! ?I'm sure Bob is a wonderful person, or all of those Bobs are, and he does offer up some thought-provoking ideas here; I like listening in when I can, even engaging when I have time and the tenets of whatever's been proposed seem worthwhile. ?But this bullying on about "Wilshberia" feels disingenuous at best, and, at worse, banks on the anti-intellectualism that is running rampant in the political strains against education, and teachers themselves, today. ?I don't think anyone on this list isn't aware of what's going on with the threats to teachers and education in general right now. ?To continue to rail against that monolithic "academia", even on a seemingly benign campaign for "Wilshberia", is to capitalize on that sentiment and engage it to further one's own (impotent) cause. ?And to what end? ?Bob sounds like John Barth at times, and at others, he echoes the administrators who can't understand why we teach creative writing and the arts to begin with. ? I don't mind Bob using the term to speak about a poetics he thinks he's defined; if he's done a decent job, people will adopt the term because it's useful, even if it's parameters aren't entirely certain, and not because they've been forced to do so. ?Think of "quietude," a term Silliman coined and used and others took up, even though it isn't entirely set in stone. ?Did Silliman get on listservs and doggedly beat others into submission to use it? ? One can go through the archives and read Bob's posts, insistent that he knows exactly what "Wilshberian" poetry is and dogged in the necessity to continue to define it, and, as noted today, shaming others into recognizing it or else they'll be called uninformed "academics". In this regard, I'm not interested in what kind of person Bob is, and everyone can go on taking him with the proverbial grain of salt, without question. ?What bothers me is how he dominates discussions, forcing others to adhere to an ever-changing term no one else seems to care about or recognize, and the more they don't, the louder and more insistently he defines it. ?It makes me wonder what he's really trying to do, why he's so set on dividing people into these simplistic poetic camps, and why his outlook is, despite some nuanced discussions, ultimately so very limited. ?From what I can gather after all this time, anything that is not visual poetry, according to him, is "Wilshberian." ? Finally, I find it interesting that he conjures Geof Huth's name, a vispo poet who would never (at least I cannot imagine it after many pleasant interactions with the man) narrow discussions and dominate them in the manner that Bob reverts to on a regular basis. ?I think I'll ask him if he's ever been force-fed the "Wilshberian" line and why doesn't he tow it. ? Amy ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog Dear Amy, I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally a good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he says that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes you, well something similar. Another one of his personalities wants people to get angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, who anyhow write a lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. A nice Sunday, Anny On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, amy king wrote: David, > > >Ah, but you *can* "shout," ?bully and shame others, ad nauseam, in an attempt to speak in one's own special made-up terms, however reductive and insulting. ?Take Bob's latest attempt to shame people into discussion: > > >Everything there, however, is non-Wilshberian, so here's your chance to get back at me for what some consider to be my sneers at the poetry of WIlshberia.? Or will you all ignore it--as I so often claim English department academics ignore all poetry outside Wilshberia? > >--Bob >___________________________ > >? >If you don't respond, then you're a blindered academic who teaches, touts, and tows some fictitious line called "Wilshberia," but if you do respond, well there may be hope for you. ?Instead of Bob asking folks to take a look at the site because he finds this particular set of visual poetry interesting for the follow reasons: _____, he insists on bullying folks into engagement through his artificial terms. ? > > >I haven't had much time to dip into this list much this semester, but when I do, I can be certain to read a few posts from Bob that never only engage others on poetry and poetics, but they always include some thread, or are dominated by, his variety of bullying, name-calling and attempts to set and dictate the parameters of taste. ?This rough mentality is the basis of stereotyping, a nasty engagement. ?He may as well be saying all lawyers who don't argue for the eradication of civil disobedience drink snifters of thirty-year-old brandy and smoke Cubans at lunch time before retiring to their mansions. ?"Wilshberian" serves no useful purpose except to demonize and reduce someone, whose tastes likely range and contain multitudes, to a dog in a fight they didn't know existed, except in a very small pond New Poetry where if, you shout and insult enough, your squeaky wheel gets some grease. > > >Not simply: ?can poetry be political, but also, can discussions on listservs be political? ?They always are. ?? > > >Amy > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > >________________________________ > >From: David Graham >To: NewPoetry >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:52 AM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog > > >OK, last post from me for a while on this topic, I promise. > >I have no problem with Bob liking the poetry he likes, or advocating for it, >and often wish he would do so instead of using all the oxygen in the room >berating others for not sufficiently recognizing his favorite stuff.? That's >like standing day after day in a McDonalds and screaming that there's no >sushi on the menu.? No, there isn't, and there won't be tomorrow, either. >Sorry.? You can't shout people into having different taste, and most of the >poetry reading public just doesn't have much of a taste for most of what Bob >loves.? > >My problem with "Wishberia," as I've said often enough, is with the word >itself as a critical term or category.? For reasons I've mentioned often >and at length, I find the term "Wilshberia" at best useless, bordering on >meaningless; at worst, Bob tends to use it as a shorthand sneer.? He also >can't seem to make up his own mind whether the term describes technique, >originality, institutional recognition and support, or the monolithic taste >of something called "the academy."? Or some ill-defined mix of all the >above.? > >Which points to one of the problems with the term:? such a vaguely defined >and sweeping category really isn't very useful for clarifying anything.? It >certainly doesn't help any reader see the distinctions and differences that >go into quality. > >But it gets wearisome being our leading Wilshberian, especially since that >makes me fictive head of an imaginary crew, like Santa presiding over his >elves. . . .? I realize I have only myself to blame for suffering this >distinction, being all too willing to engage with Bob on such matters over >the years.? > >So I hereby resign my post as Lead Wishberian, and release my delegates to >Tad Richards. Perhaps he could rotate the office between himself and Mike >Snider, Jeff Newberry, Barry Spacks, Anny Ballardini, and others. . . . > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sun May 1 14:02:43 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 11:02:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 9, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Succinctly stated, thanks -- I appreciate your clarity & will never impede your progress. If you approach it as a naturalist, delighting in the creatures you classify, free from the requirements of an ego to exist, I'd be very interested in the outcome. > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:04:07 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dans une autre chambre du chateau > > On 4/29/2011 2:12 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > > Shall we discuss /Peri Hermeneias? Or would you, like me, rather die > > of boredom? / > > > What I'd rather do, when I have time, is continue to name and classify > different kinds of contemporary poetry in English--and call attention to > the fact that WIlshberia is not the only realm that produces effective > examples of it. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 1 14:50:22 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:50:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Amy, I know what you mean. I am also a teacher and it is depressing to be one these days - and by the way, also Bob teaches. I would never feed threads that go against Academia, besides the fact that Academia is so large that at this point, who is Academia? Your observations are to the point. Geof Huth, who is a friend of Bob Gruman, is completely different in his public appearances. It is almost as if Bob was happy to receive mails like yours where he is highly criticized, he thrives on them. It is very funny that he wants to be the eternal scape goat. I do not know, it goes beyond my understanding. Best, Anny On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 6:15 PM, amy king wrote: > > Thanks, Anny! I'm sure Bob is a wonderful person, or all of those Bobs > are, and he does offer up some thought-provoking ideas here; I like > listening in when I can, even engaging when I have time and the tenets of > whatever's been proposed seem worthwhile. But this bullying on about > "Wilshberia" feels disingenuous at best, and, at worse, banks on the > anti-intellectualism that is running rampant in the political strains > against education, and teachers themselves, today. I don't think anyone on > this list isn't aware of what's going on with the threats to teachers and > education in general right now. To continue to rail against that monolithic > "academia", even on a seemingly benign campaign for "Wilshberia", is to > capitalize on that sentiment and engage it to further one's own (impotent) > cause. And to what end? Bob sounds like John Barth at times, and at > others, he echoes the administrators who can't understand why we teach > creative writing and the arts to begin with. > > I don't mind Bob using the term to speak about a poetics he thinks he's > defined; if he's done a decent job, people will adopt the term because it's > useful, even if it's parameters aren't entirely certain, and not because > they've been forced to do so. Think of "quietude," a term Silliman coined > and used and others took up, even though it isn't entirely set in stone. > Did Silliman get on listservs and doggedly beat others into submission to > use it? One can go through the archives and read Bob's posts, insistent > that he knows exactly what "Wilshberian" poetry is and dogged in the > necessity to continue to define it, and, as noted today, shaming others into > recognizing it or else they'll be called uninformed "academics". > > In this regard, I'm not interested in what kind of person Bob is, and > everyone can go on taking him with the proverbial grain of salt, without > question. What bothers me is how he dominates discussions, forcing others > to adhere to an ever-changing term no one else seems to care about or > recognize, and the more they don't, the louder and more insistently he > defines it. It makes me wonder what he's really trying to do, why he's so > set on dividing people into these simplistic poetic camps, and why his > outlook is, despite some nuanced discussions, ultimately so very limited. > From what I can gather after all this time, anything that is not visual > poetry, according to him, is "Wilshberian." > > Finally, I find it interesting that he conjures Geof Huth's name, a vispo > poet who would never (at least I cannot imagine it after many pleasant > interactions with the man) narrow discussions and dominate them in the > manner that Bob reverts to on a regular basis. I think I'll ask him if he's > ever been force-fed the "Wilshberian" line and why doesn't he tow it. > > Amy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sunday, May 1, 2011 9:08 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog > > Dear Amy, > > I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally a > good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these > personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he says > that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes you, well > something similar. Another one of his personalities wants people to get > angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, who anyhow write a > lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. > > A nice Sunday, Anny > > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, amy king wrote: > > David, > > Ah, but you *can* "shout," bully and shame others, ad nauseam, in an > attempt to speak in one's own special made-up terms, however reductive and > insulting. Take Bob's latest attempt to shame people into discussion: > > Everything there, however, is non-Wilshberian, so here's your chance to get > back at me for what some consider to be my sneers at the poetry of > WIlshberia. Or will you all ignore it--as I so often claim English > department academics ignore all poetry outside Wilshberia? > > --Bob > ___________________________ > > If you don't respond, then you're a blindered academic who teaches, touts, > and tows some fictitious line called "Wilshberia," but if you do respond, > well there may be hope for you. Instead of Bob asking folks to take a look > at the site because he finds this particular set of visual poetry > interesting for the follow reasons: _____, he insists on bullying folks into > engagement through his artificial terms. > > I haven't had much time to dip into this list much this semester, but when > I do, I can be certain to read a few posts from Bob that never only engage > others on poetry and poetics, but they always include some thread, or are > dominated by, his variety of bullying, name-calling and attempts to set and > dictate the parameters of taste. This rough mentality is the basis of > stereotyping, a nasty engagement. He may as well be saying all lawyers who > don't argue for the eradication of civil disobedience drink snifters of > thirty-year-old brandy and smoke Cubans at lunch time before retiring to > their mansions. "Wilshberian" serves no useful purpose except to demonize > and reduce someone, whose tastes likely range and contain multitudes, to a > dog in a fight they didn't know existed, except in a very small pond New > Poetry where if, you shout and insult enough, your squeaky wheel gets some > grease. > > Not simply: can poetry be political, but also, can discussions on > listservs be political? They always are. > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2011 11:52 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog > > OK, last post from me for a while on this topic, I promise. > > I have no problem with Bob liking the poetry he likes, or advocating for > it, > and often wish he would do so instead of using all the oxygen in the room > berating others for not sufficiently recognizing his favorite stuff. > That's > like standing day after day in a McDonalds and screaming that there's no > sushi on the menu. No, there isn't, and there won't be tomorrow, either. > Sorry. You can't shout people into having different taste, and most of the > poetry reading public just doesn't have much of a taste for most of what > Bob > loves. > > My problem with "Wishberia," as I've said often enough, is with the word > itself as a critical term or category. For reasons I've mentioned often > and at length, I find the term "Wilshberia" at best useless, bordering on > meaningless; at worst, Bob tends to use it as a shorthand sneer. He also > can't seem to make up his own mind whether the term describes technique, > originality, institutional recognition and support, or the monolithic taste > of something called "the academy." Or some ill-defined mix of all the > above. > > Which points to one of the problems with the term: such a vaguely defined > and sweeping category really isn't very useful for clarifying anything. It > certainly doesn't help any reader see the distinctions and differences that > go into quality. > > But it gets wearisome being our leading Wilshberian, especially since that > makes me fictive head of an imaginary crew, like Santa presiding over his > elves. . . . I realize I have only myself to blame for suffering this > distinction, being all too willing to engage with Bob on such matters over > the years. > > So I hereby resign my post as Lead Wishberian, and release my delegates to > Tad Richards. Perhaps he could rotate the office between himself and Mike > Snider, Jeff Newberry, Barry Spacks, Anny Ballardini, and others. . . . > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 1 18:08:39 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 18:08:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> Bob's heckling with 'Wilshberia' doesn't really bother me. I guess I'm inured to it. I was actually pleased that Bob pointed to an interesting vizpo website instead of just carping about nobody loves the kind of poetry I love, everyone is stuck in the common spectrum, etc. One thing I would say is that Silliman's Blog is (or was) a very big bully-pulpit. So it wasn't necessary for Ron to promote his equally dismissive and no less broadbrush "SoQ" coinage. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog Thanks, Anny! I'm sure Bob is a wonderful person, or all of those Bobs are, and he does offer up some thought-provoking ideas here; I like listening in when I can, even engaging when I have time and the tenets of whatever's been proposed seem worthwhile. But this bullying on about "Wilshberia" feels disingenuous at best, and, at worse, banks on the anti-intellectualism that is running rampant in the political strains against education, and teachers themselves, today. I don't think anyone on this list isn't aware of what's going on with the threats to teachers and education in general right now. To continue to rail against that monolithic "academia", even on a seemingly benign campaign for "Wilshberia", is to capitalize on that sentiment and engage it to further one's own (impotent) cause. And to what end? Bob sounds like John Barth at times, and at others, he echoes the administrators who can't understand why we teach creative writing and the arts to begin with. I don't mind Bob using the term to speak about a poetics he thinks he's defined; if he's done a decent job, people will adopt the term because it's useful, even if it's parameters aren't entirely certain, and not because they've been forced to do so. Think of "quietude," a term Silliman coined and used and others took up, even though it isn't entirely set in stone. Did Silliman get on listservs and doggedly beat others into submission to use it? One can go through the archives and read Bob's posts, insistent that he knows exactly what "Wilshberian" poetry is and dogged in the necessity to continue to define it, and, as noted today, shaming others into recognizing it or else they'll be called uninformed "academics". In this regard, I'm not interested in what kind of person Bob is, and everyone can go on taking him with the proverbial grain of salt, without question. What bothers me is how he dominates discussions, forcing others to adhere to an ever-changing term no one else seems to care about or recognize, and the more they don't, the louder and more insistently he defines it. It makes me wonder what he's really trying to do, why he's so set on dividing people into these simplistic poetic camps, and why his outlook is, despite some nuanced discussions, ultimately so very limited. From what I can gather after all this time, anything that is not visual poetry, according to him, is "Wilshberian." Finally, I find it interesting that he conjures Geof Huth's name, a vispo poet who would never (at least I cannot imagine it after many pleasant interactions with the man) narrow discussions and dominate them in the manner that Bob reverts to on a regular basis. I think I'll ask him if he's ever been force-fed the "Wilshberian" line and why doesn't he tow it. Amy From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog Dear Amy, I think that people on this list already know Bob. He is fundamentally a good guy - alas - with multiple personalities. And one of these personalities is to say the opposite of what he thinks. Thus when he says that you are a Wilshberian, he wants to tell you that he likes you, well something similar. Another one of his personalities wants people to get angry with him. A complex kind of folk, are those Bobs, who anyhow write a lot and sometimes produce some good stuff. A nice Sunday, Anny On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, amy king wrote: David, Ah, but you *can* "shout," bully and shame others, ad nauseam, in an attempt to speak in one's own special made-up terms, however reductive and insulting. Take Bob's latest attempt to shame people into discussion: Everything there, however, is non-Wilshberian, so here's your chance to get back at me for what some consider to be my sneers at the poetry of WIlshberia. Or will you all ignore it--as I so often claim English department academics ignore all poetry outside Wilshberia? --Bob ___________________________ If you don't respond, then you're a blindered academic who teaches, touts, and tows some fictitious line called "Wilshberia," but if you do respond, well there may be hope for you. Instead of Bob asking folks to take a look at the site because he finds this particular set of visual poetry interesting for the follow reasons: _____, he insists on bullying folks into engagement through his artificial terms. I haven't had much time to dip into this list much this semester, but when I do, I can be certain to read a few posts from Bob that never only engage others on poetry and poetics, but they always include some thread, or are dominated by, his variety of bullying, name-calling and attempts to set and dictate the parameters of taste. This rough mentality is the basis of stereotyping, a nasty engagement. He may as well be saying all lawyers who don't argue for the eradication of civil disobedience drink snifters of thirty-year-old brandy and smoke Cubans at lunch time before retiring to their mansions. "Wilshberian" serves no useful purpose except to demonize and reduce someone, whose tastes likely range and contain multitudes, to a dog in a fight they didn't know existed, except in a very small pond New Poetry where if, you shout and insult enough, your squeaky wheel gets some grease. Not simply: can poetry be political, but also, can discussions on listservs be political? They always are. Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ; ******** From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog OK, last post from me for a while on this topic, I promise. I have no problem with Bob liking the poetry he likes, or advocating for it, and often wish he would do so instead of using all the oxygen in the room berating others for not sufficiently recognizing his favorite stuff. That's like standing day after day in a McDonalds and screaming that there's no sushi on the menu. No, there isn't, and there won't be tomorrow, either. Sorry. You can't shout people into having different taste, and most of the poetry reading public just doesn't have much of a taste for most of what Bob loves. My problem with "Wishberia," as I've said often enough, is with the word itself as a critical term or category. For reasons I've mentioned often and at length, I find the term "Wilshberia" at best useless, bordering on meaningless; at worst, Bob tends to use it as a shorthand sneer. He also can't seem to make up his own mind whether the term describes technique, originality, institutional recognition and support, or the monolithic taste of something called "the academy." Or some ill-defined mix of all the above. Which points to one of the problems with the term: such a vaguely defined and sweeping category really isn't very useful for clarifying anything. It certainly doesn't help any reader see the distinctions and differences that go into quality. But it gets wearisome being our leading Wilshberian, especially since that makes me fictive head of an imaginary crew, like Santa presiding over his elves. . . . I realize I have only myself to blame for suffering this distinction, being all too willing to engage with Bob on such matters over the years. So I hereby resign my post as Lead Wishberian, and release my delegates to Tad Richards. Perhaps he could rotate the office between himself and Mike Snider, Jeff Newberry, Barry Spacks, Anny Ballardini, and others. . . . _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 1 20:00:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 19:00:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> On 5/1/2011 5:08 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Bob's heckling with 'Wilshberia' doesn't really bother me. I guess I'm > inured to it. > I was actually pleased that Bob pointed to an interesting vizpo > website instead of just carping about nobody loves the kind of poetry > I love, everyone is stuck in the common spectrum, etc. > One thing I would say is that Silliman's Blog is (or was) a very big > bully-pulpit. So it wasn't necessary for Ron to promote his equally > dismissive and no less broadbrush "SoQ" coinage. > Finnegan . Thanks for seeing things closer to the way I do, Finnegan. I would only say in my defense, as I have before, that (1) I think I'm right in believing my sort of poetry, which is much more than just visual poetry, is slighted, so it should be at least a little understandable why I would bully the five or six people who generally oppose me when I pop off about you-know-what, and that (2) it seems to me I've not infrequently brought attention to my kind of art, and would much more frequently if I had any sense that anyone was interested. About Ron, I would add that his sort of poetry is now at least half-certified by the academy, with Lyn Hejinian in the academy, and a Best anthology featuring language poetry. Phooey, I'm afraid I'm compelled to say once again, though it's a waste of time, that I do not disdain Wilshberia, which is where I live more than a few months each year (two books of Wilshberian poetry so far and two full-length studies of poetry at least half devoted to Wilshberia and earlier poetry--admiringly). What I disdain are people who think all significant poetry is composed in Wilshberia. As for academics, I respect them, but they are, almost by definition, curators of the past, and I expect this. I just want to hurry them a little. Visual poetry, for instance, has been important for almost ninety years now. It's gotten a little academic recognition, but not enough. The other poetries I feel under-recognized probably haven't been around long enough for full academic acceptance--but, still, they ought to at least be noted as existing. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 1 18:59:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 17:59:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Just to keep you updated, B-b-bob--Bernstein and Perelman (among others, I'm sure) are also "in the academy." Not sure whether that means to you that they're "certified." "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/1/2011 5:08 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Bob's heckling with 'Wilshberia' doesn't really bother me. I guess I'm > inured to it. > I was actually pleased that Bob pointed to an interesting vizpo website > instead of just carping about nobody loves the kind of poetry I love, > everyone is stuck in the common spectrum, etc. > One thing I would say is that Silliman's Blog is (or was) a very big > bully-pulpit. So it wasn't necessary for Ron to promote his equally > dismissive and no less broadbrush "SoQ" coinage. > Finnegan > > . > Thanks for seeing things closer to the way I do, Finnegan. I would only > say in my defense, as I have before, that (1) I think I'm right in believing > my sort of poetry, which is much more than just visual poetry, is slighted, > so it should be at least a little understandable why I would bully the five > or six people who generally oppose me when I pop off about you-know-what, > and that (2) it seems to me I've not infrequently brought attention to my > kind of art, and would much more frequently if I had any sense that anyone > was interested. > > About Ron, I would add that his sort of poetry is now at least > half-certified by the academy, with Lyn Hejinian in the academy, and a Best > anthology featuring language poetry. > > Phooey, I'm afraid I'm compelled to say once again, though it's a waste of > time, that I do not disdain Wilshberia, which is where I live more than a > few months each year (two books of Wilshberian poetry so far and two > full-length studies of poetry at least half devoted to Wilshberia and > earlier poetry--admiringly). What I disdain are people who think all > significant poetry is composed in Wilshberia. As for academics, I respect > them, but they are, almost by definition, curators of the past, and I expect > this. I just want to hurry them a little. Visual poetry, for instance, has > been important for almost ninety years now. It's gotten a little academic > recognition, but not enough. The other poetries I feel under-recognized > probably haven't been around long enough for full academic acceptance--but, > still, they ought to at least be noted as existing. > > --Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun May 1 19:04:09 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 16:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob (and other interested parties), You might check out the Visual Writings colloquium acta for which I translated a piece, just out from Rutgers University Press: deals with the Lettrists, Michaux's?faux-ideogrammatic writing, amazing book-artist Buzz Spector, etc. Right up your alley. Back to my usual curating the past. Pshaw. I can think of at least a dozen folks who have or are studying multi-media "poetic" work produced in the last five years or less...all of them academics. It's very ? la mode, contrary to what you believe, Bob. Especially in France, and I assure you the French are not ahead of the game when it comes to issues of canonicity.? Amicalement, Alex? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 2:00:32 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog On 5/1/2011 5:08 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Bob's heckling with 'Wilshberia' doesn't really bother me. I guess I'm inured to it. >I was actually pleased that Bob pointed to an interesting vizpo website instead >of just carping about nobody loves the kind of poetry I love, everyone is?stuck >in the?common spectrum, etc. > >One thing I would say?is that Silliman's Blog is (or was) a very big >bully-pulpit. So it wasn't necessary for Ron to promote his equally >dismissive?and no less broadbrush?"SoQ" coinage. >Finnegan >. Thanks for seeing things closer to the way I do, Finnegan.? I would only say in my defense, as I have before, that (1) I think I'm right in believing my sort of poetry, which is much more than just visual poetry, is slighted, so it should be at least a little understandable why I would bully the five or six people who generally oppose me when I pop off about you-know-what, and that (2) it seems to me I've not infrequently brought attention to my kind of art, and would much more frequently if I had any sense that anyone was interested.? About Ron, I would add that his sort of poetry is now at least half-certified by the academy, with Lyn Hejinian in the academy, and a Best anthology featuring language poetry. Phooey, I'm afraid I'm compelled to say once again, though it's a waste of time, that I do not disdain Wilshberia, which is where I live more than a few months each year (two books of Wilshberian poetry so far and two full-length studies of poetry at least half devoted to Wilshberia and earlier poetry--admiringly).? What I disdain are people who think all significant poetry is composed in Wilshberia.? As for academics, I respect them, but they are, almost by definition, curators of the past, and I expect this.? I just want to hurry them a little.? Visual poetry, for instance, has been important for almost ninety years now.? It's gotten a little academic recognition, but not enough.? The other poetries I feel under-recognized probably haven't been around long enough for full academic acceptance--but, still, they ought to at least be noted as existing. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 1 21:28:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 20:28:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8C DD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DBE08C9.2070106@nut-n-but.net> On 5/1/2011 5:59 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Just to keep you updated, B-b-bob--Bernstein and Perelman (among others, > I'm sure) are also "in the academy." Not sure whether that means to you > that they're "certified." > . They were certified long before they got elected to the academy. I don't keep up with the academy, though, so thanks for the update. Ten or fifteen years ago at the Poetics site I was getting dumped on for saying language poetry had become "acadominant," by which I meant that it was considered top of the line by the leading academics although ignored by most academics. They certainly seem to behaving their way now. I think it's because most of them are themselves academics, are in most instances purely verbal--as well as in some cases actually being pretty good poets. Clark Coolidge may be major. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 1 21:43:51 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 20:43:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net> On 5/1/2011 6:04 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob (and other interested parties), > You might check out the /Visual Writings/ colloquium acta for which I > translated a piece, just out from Rutgers University Press: deals with > the Lettrists, Michaux's faux-ideogrammatic writing, amazing > book-artist Buzz Spector, etc. Right up your alley. > Back to my usual curating the past. Pshaw. I can think of at least a > dozen folks who have or are studying multi-media "poetic" work > produced in the last five years or less...all of them academics. It's > very ? la mode, contrary to what you believe, Bob. Especially in > France, and I assure you the French are not ahead of the game when it > comes to issues of canonicity. > Amicalement, > Alex Perhaps they are catching up. I'd have to see what they're doing to be sure. But I was in Jacksonville a month ago and met Clark Lunberry, an associate professor at the University of North Florida. He, and proper academic, had invited Hungarian visual poet (in English), Marton Koppany, to do a presentation and had himself a visual poetic installation up at the time. (I blogged it.) Marton had been a long-time buddy of mine through the mail and then Internet, so we got together in Jacksonville. On the other hand, I haven't yet heard from any of my friends in visual poetry and the like that any academic interest has been shown in their work. I once had a mathematical poem in a textbook--in a little visual poetry section although it was not a visual poem. So who knows. Considering how many colleges there are, there are bound to be publications devoted to almost anything, I claim it will be a long time before anyone does anything of value about American visual poetry. I haven't seen anything myself, but I don't have the money to buy books often so don't bother trying to keep up. But thanks for telling me about the Rutgers thing. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 2 05:20:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:20:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA Message-ID: http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html Sorry, but I have never digested the lady. She resigns to Governor, that is just so funny. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 07:43:40 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 04:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, Actually, I'm familiar with Lunberry's research; he did a piece on "parapoetics" in which he cites Jean-Jacques Lecercle, a friend of mine: Lunberry's article, along with Lecercle's work, intersects closely with?what I do in some of my poetry, through which I met Lecercle. Whose name, rather aptly in this instance, means "the circle". Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 3:43:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog On 5/1/2011 6:04 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Bob (and other interested parties), >You might check out the Visual Writings colloquium acta for which I translated a >piece, just out from Rutgers University Press: deals with the Lettrists, >Michaux's?faux-ideogrammatic writing, amazing book-artist Buzz Spector, etc. >Right up your alley. >Back to my usual curating the past. Pshaw. I can think of at least a dozen folks >who have or are studying multi-media "poetic" work produced in the last five >years or less...all of them academics. It's very ? la mode, contrary to what you >believe, Bob. Especially in France, and I assure you the French are not ahead of >the game when it comes to issues of canonicity.? >Amicalement, >Alex > Perhaps they are catching up.? I'd have to see what they're doing to be sure.? But I was in Jacksonville a month ago and met Clark Lunberry, an associate professor at the University of North Florida.? He, and proper academic, had invited Hungarian visual poet (in English), Marton Koppany, to do a presentation and had himself a visual poetic installation up at the time.? (I blogged it.)? Marton had been a long-time buddy of mine through the mail and then Internet, so we got together in Jacksonville.? On the other hand, I haven't yet heard from any of my friends in visual poetry and the like that any academic interest has been shown in their work.? I once had a mathematical poem in a textbook--in a little visual poetry section although it was not a visual poem.? So who knows.? Considering how many colleges there are, there are bound to be publications devoted to almost anything,? I claim it will be a long time before anyone does anything of value about American visual poetry.? I haven't seen anything myself, but I don't have the money to buy books often so don't bother trying to keep up. But thanks for telling me about the Rutgers thing. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 2 09:43:27 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:43:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ira Cohen, an Artist and a Touchstone, Dies at 76 Message-ID: <8CDD6E60C9BFFB5-1950-3F26@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/arts/ira-cohen-an-artist-and-a-touchstone-dies-at-76.html Ira Cohen, an Artist and a Touchstone, Dies at 76 By DOUGLAS MARTIN Published: May 1, 2011 Ira Cohen made phantasmagorical films that became cult classics. He developed a way of taking photographs in mesmerizing, twisting colors, including a famous one of Jimi Hendrix. He published works by authors like William Burroughs and the poet Gregory Corso. He wrote thousands of poems himself. He wrote ?The Hashish Cookbook? under the name Panama Rose. He called himself ?the conscience of Planet Earth.? But his most amazing work of art was inarguably Mr. Cohen himself. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 11:13:15 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:13:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net > <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 6:43 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob, > Actually, I'm familiar with Lunberry's research; he did a piece on > "parapoetics" in which he cites Jean-Jacques Lecercle, a friend of > mine: Lunberry's article, along with Lecercle's work, intersects > closely with what I do in some of my poetry, through which I met > Lecercle. Whose name, rather aptly in this instance, means "the circle". > Amicalement, > Alex . Oops, another name I'll have to cross off my list of people in the arts worth knowing. . . . Actually, I already did: there are at least three authors whose work he admires and I don't. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 10:22:59 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net > <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, Not clear what you mean; if I had less pantagruelism, I'd take it for a slight. Either way, I'm entirely unclear why admiring Lecercle or myself has anything to do with being worth knowing, either way, it's fairly offensive. Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 5:13:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog On 5/2/2011 6:43 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Bob, >Actually, I'm familiar with Lunberry's research; he did a piece on "parapoetics" >in which he cites Jean-Jacques Lecercle, a friend of mine: Lunberry's article, >along with Lecercle's work, intersects closely with?what I do in some of my >poetry, through which I met Lecercle. Whose name, rather aptly in this instance, >means "the circle". >Amicalement, >Alex >. Oops, another name I'll have to cross off my list of people in the arts worth knowing. . . .? Actually, I already did: there are at least three authors whose work he admires and I don't. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 11:28:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:28:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> > Dear Amy, > > I know what you mean. I am also a teacher and it is depressing to be > one these days - and by the way, also Bob teaches. I would never feed > threads that go against Academia, besides the fact that Academia is so > large that at this point, who is Academia? Your observations are to > the point. Geof Huth, who is a friend of Bob Gruman, is completely > different in his public appearances. It is almost as if Bob was happy > to receive mails like yours where he is highly criticized, he thrives > on them. > It is very funny that he wants to be the eternal scape goat. > I do not know, it goes beyond my understanding. > > Best, Anny > . You know, Anny, what you write above inspired a thought: that everyone varies in the anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio of what he says and writes. By this I mean that we all write with at least some aim of producing a certain reaction in others AND with at least some aim of expressing some truth as we see it, without regard for others' reactions. Those whose usual a/v ratio is, say, 80/20 will tend to think that someone like me, whose usual a/v ratio is the opposite, speak and write to elicit reactions from others when in fact all we're doing is saying what we think as exactly as possible (true, without making /too/ many enemies). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 10:30:31 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:30:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Oh-oh, Bob makes lists. Well, we've been warned. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 6:43 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > Bob, > Actually, I'm familiar with Lunberry's research; he did a piece on > "parapoetics" in which he cites Jean-Jacques Lecercle, a friend of mine: > Lunberry's article, along with Lecercle's work, intersects closely with what > I do in some of my poetry, through which I met Lecercle. Whose name, rather > aptly in this instance, means "the circle". > Amicalement, > Alex > > . > Oops, another name I'll have to cross off my list of people in the arts > worth knowing. . . . Actually, I already did: there are at least three > authors whose work he admires and I don't. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Mon May 2 10:34:27 2011 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:34:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcement: Publication of New Book, TINTED DISTANCES Message-ID: <4DBE7AA30200006E0008C0E9@gwdm1.valpo.edu> I am pleased to report that my new book of poems, Tinted Distances, has been published by Turning Point Books. Tinted Distances by Edward Byrne (Turning Point Books, 2011) ISBN: 978-1936370337. The poems of Edward Byrne?s Tinted Distances strongly inhabit the world, even as they meditate on how that world is perceived in art and memory. Tinted Distances represents the third volume in a trilogy of poetry collections, alongside Seeded Light and Tidal Air. Tinted Distances is the achievement of a wise and discerning poet. ?Claudia Emerson This is a wonderful book, one that readers will return to again and again. ?Sherod Santos Edward Byrne?s Tinted Distances is a tender meditation that reveals a careful eye and steady devotion to elegy and ode. ?Dorianne Laux http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2011/05/announcement-release-of-tinted.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Web Page: http://edwardbyrne.shutterfly.com/ Audio Chapbook: http://wschap4.wordpress.com/ Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne-tinted.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Co-Editor, Valparaiso Fiction Review: http://scholar.valpo.edu/vfr E-mail: vfr at valpo.edu Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Mon May 2 10:41:27 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:41:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I for one plan to be highly shocked if the catchy term "anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio" doesn't soon sweep the Internet. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 2, 2011, at 9:30 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Oh-oh, Bob makes lists. Well, > we've been warned. > > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon May 2 10:47:52 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:47:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new audio chapbook - 'Threatening Weather' by Howie Good In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> , <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net>, <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net>, Message-ID: Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks is delighted to announce the publication of 'Threatening Weather' by Howie Good (http://bit.ly/kGr2VJ). Our publisher's slogan is "publish in multiple formats - some of them free!" So you get to download audio, PDF, EPUB and MOBI files of the chapbook free, if those are your preferred poetry-absorbing methods. If you like a good old paper book in your hand, you can buy the poems as a print chapbook from Lulu's (at cost-price - no publisher mark-up). If you prefer a CD to put in a player and store on your shelf, you can buy the CD version from Lulu's - also at cost-price with no mark-up. More here http://bit.ly/ks4vZ5 about why we publish in the bizarro way we do. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Forever Will End on Thursday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 11:56:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 10:56:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> <257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBED430.70103@nut-n-but.net> > Oops, another name I'll have to cross off my list of people in the > arts worth knowing. . . . Actually, I already did: there are at least > three authors whose work he admires and I don't. > > --Bob . Sorry, Alex. I have a problem with telling people when something I said was intended to be a joke. If you tell a person X is supposed to be funny and he's already thought it funny, you will probably diminish his amusement. On the other hand, if you don't, well, we have what happened here. And I could claim to be offended that you thought I'd take a person off a list of people I thought worthwhile because he admired three authors that I didn't. He'd have to admire at least four I didn't like. That's a joke. But I see how "three" could have confused you--Lecercle, Lunberry and you. But I was thinking of three long-dead authors that came up in conversation when I was in Jacksonville, that Clark and Marton revere and I don't. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 12:01:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:01:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4D BDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0 B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DBED564.1020708@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 9:41 AM, Graham, David wrote: > I for one plan to be highly shocked if the catchy term > "anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio" doesn't soon sweep the Internet. . Exactly, David. Because I coined it for precision, not pr. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 10:58:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:58:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I plan to use it every day. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Graham, David wrote: > I for one plan to be highly shocked if the catchy term > "anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio" doesn't soon sweep the Internet. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 2, 2011, at 9:30 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Oh-oh, Bob makes lists. Well, > we've been warned. > > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 12:22:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:22:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4D BDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0 B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DBEDA3D.8000207@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 9:58 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I plan to use it every day. . Yeeeks, that insures its nullification! I herewith withdraw it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 2 11:18:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 11:18:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mass Poetry Festival, May 12, 13 & 14, Salem MA Message-ID: <8CDD6F360CCCA4A-1950-60F4@angweb-usd022.sysops.aol.com> http://masspoetry.crowdvine.com/ http://masspoetry.crowdvine.com/calendar#2011-05-13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon May 2 11:29:45 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 07:29:45 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As an Alaskan, I can say that many of us have never been able to figure her-- or her appeal-- out either. She's dumb as a box of rocks and definitely undigested... thankfully, the public seems to be tiring of her tired self so she will likely be limited to her strange brand of punditry (dumbitry?)... maybe Bob can come up with a good term for her :) c On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html > > Sorry, but I have never digested the lady. She resigns to Governor, that is > just so funny. From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 11:34:06 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:34:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Her appeal to McCain was that with her in the frame some would still look at the screen. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > As an Alaskan, I can say that many of us have never been able to > figure her-- or her appeal-- out either. She's dumb as a box of rocks > and definitely undigested... thankfully, the public seems to be tiring > of her tired self so she will likely be limited to her strange brand > of punditry (dumbitry?)... maybe Bob can come up with a good term for > her :) > > c > > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html > > > > Sorry, but I have never digested the lady. She resigns to Governor, that > is > > just so funny. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 11:41:50 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:41:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBEDA3D.8000207@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBEDA3D.8000207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah, good. Mission accomplished. Your nomenclature gives me hives. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 9:58 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > I plan to use it every day. > > . > Yeeeks, that insures its nullification! I herewith withdraw it. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 2 11:47:28 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more inclined to seek some affirmation from others. ? Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. Can we get anymore masculine here? ?Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. ?You make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a knife and next to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash along the way (or by what means you got that knife), while we (you know, those of us attempting to be attuned to how our campaigns fit into the larger social sphere, what rhetorical premises we capitalize on and advance, etc.) are beholden to sustenance at the hands of the 'ignorant masses' (i.e. ?that amorphous unstudied grouping called the Wilshberians). ? Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and navigate the world and poetics with. ?They (and your impulse to fashion them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield racist epitaphs because you believe you have the right to do so without any repercussions or any concern for who they might harm. ?Privilege and entitlement reign in your campaigns. ? Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good fun." ?I hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these mental exercises. ?No real harm intended. ?Right? ? From: Bob Grumman You know, Anny, what you write above inspired a thought: that everyone varies in the anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio of what he says and writes.? By this I mean that we all write with at least some aim of producing a certain reaction in others AND with at least some aim of expressing some truth as we see it, without regard for others' reactions.? Those whose usual a/v ratio is, say, 80/20 will tend to think that someone like me, whose usual a/v ratio is the opposite, speak and write to elicit reactions from others when in fact all we're doing is saying what we think as exactly as possible (true, without making too many enemies). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:10:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:10:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: When Bob speaks, even Mt. St. Helen's trembles. He's no "clod washed from the main"--no, sirree, bob. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:47 AM, amy king wrote: > In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more > inclined to seek some affirmation from others. > > Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. > > Can we get anymore masculine here? Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. You > make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a knife and next > to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash along the way (or by > what means you got that knife), while we (you know, those of us attempting > to be attuned to how our campaigns fit into the larger social sphere, what > rhetorical premises we capitalize on and advance, etc.) are beholden to > sustenance at the hands of the 'ignorant masses' (i.e. that amorphous > unstudied grouping called the Wilshberians). > > Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and > navigate the world and poetics with. They (and your impulse to fashion > them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield racist epitaphs > because you believe you have the right to do so without any repercussions or > any concern for who they might harm. Privilege and entitlement reign in > your campaigns. > > Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good fun." I > hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these mental exercises. > No real harm intended. Right? > > > *From:* Bob Grumman * > * > > You know, Anny, what you write above inspired a thought: that everyone > varies in the anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio of what he says and writes. > By this I mean that we all write with at least some aim of producing a > certain reaction in others AND with at least some aim of expressing some > truth as we see it, without regard for others' reactions. Those whose usual > a/v ratio is, say, 80/20 will tend to think that someone like me, whose > usual a/v ratio is the opposite, speak and write to elicit reactions from > others when in fact all we're doing is saying what we think as exactly as > possible (true, without making *too* many enemies). > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Mon May 2 12:12:07 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:12:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer Issue TOWER JOURNAL Message-ID: <9D0978663624435E8CFDA4708ADB28A5@MaryAnnPC> The latest issue of the Tower Journal can now be read at http://www.towerjournal.com The issue features Cambridge poet, Celia Gilbert; digital poetry by the Egyptian poet, Yahia Lababidi and the Egyptian filmmaker Sally el Hosaini; digital poetry by Yahia Lababidi and Swoon Bildos; the poetry of Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino and many other notable and worthy poets. Of special note are the sketches of poets "Poetical Sketches" by Helen Breger, accompanied by Jack Foley poems read aloud, and the song poetry of G.P. Skratz. Mary Ann Sullivan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 12:27:34 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBED430.70103@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net> <522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net> <257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBED430.70103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <205359.51945.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, Ah, I see.?I think?my oozing thesis is starting to go to my head (due date: May 28th). Along with other things. But what racist epithet is Amy referring to?? I don't care for the sound of that. Was?offlist for that part... I must say that in my opinion, you should consider very carefully what Amy has to say. She's a hero of mine,?and worth listening to. I haven't followed much of the thread. I enjoy much of your nomenclature as you know, unlike?others here (matter of tastes and colors), but I agree with Amy that the institution-bashing is counterproductive both ideologically and in terms of your relationship to others as far as I have observed, not to mention far from the most interesting aspect of what you do. For my part. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 5:56:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog Oops, another name I'll have to cross off my list of people in the arts worth knowing. . . .? Actually, I already did: there are at least three authors whose work he admires and I don't. > >--Bob >. Sorry, Alex.? I have a problem with telling people when something I said was intended to be a joke.? If you tell a person X is supposed to be funny and he's already thought it funny, you will probably diminish his amusement.? On the other hand, if you don't, well, we have what happened here.? And I could claim to be offended that you thought I'd take a person off a list of people I thought worthwhile because he admired three authors that I didn't.? He'd have to admire at least four I didn't like.? That's a joke. But I see how "three" could have confused you--Lecercle, Lunberry and you.? But I was thinking of three long-dead authors that came up in conversation when I was in Jacksonville, that Clark and Marton revere and I don't. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:44:54 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: John Ashbery, "The Serious Doll" Message-ID: *The Serious Doll* **The kinds of things are more important than the Individual thing, though the specific is supremely Interesting. Right? As each particular Goes over Niagara Falls in a barrel one may Justifiably ask: Where does this come from? Whither goes my concern? What you are wearing Has vanished along with other concepts. They are lined up by the factory balcony railing Against blue sky with some clumsy white paper clouds Pasted on it. Where does the east meet the west? At sunset there is a choice of two smiles: discreet or serious. In this best of all possible worlds, that is enough. --John Ashbery fr. *Houseboat Days *[Penguin Books, 1977] Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dina.eylon at utoronto.ca Mon May 2 12:55:44 2011 From: dina.eylon at utoronto.ca (Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:55:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism Message-ID: Dear All, My article on the literary movement of Symbolism is now available to the public on Scribd.com. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/3oqta4q Best, Dina -- Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon, Publisher and Editor-in-Chief Women in Judaism: A Multidisciplinary Journal 1136-3 Centre St., Ste. 246 Thornhill, ON L4J 3M8 Canada Email: dina.eylon at utoronto.ca Tel: (905) 764-2578 Eylon's books are available @ Amazon.ca Eylon's free articles are available @ Academia.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 14:13:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:13:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DBEF448.8020501@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 10:29 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > As an Alaskan, I can say that many of us have never been able to > figure her-- or her appeal-- out either. She's dumb as a box of rocks > and definitely undigested... thankfully, the public seems to be tiring > of her tired self so she will likely be limited to her strange brand > of punditry (dumbitry?)... maybe Bob can come up with a good term for > her :) > > c . Cutie. As for her thinking, such as it is, no comment. I've tried to keep my oafishness apolitical (for those of you who believe there's a difference between poetics and politics). --Bob From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Mon May 2 13:09:38 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:09:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110502170939.CABAJ.273386.root@hrndva-web01-z01> It's amazing I remember when I first heard her resign, thinking Hah! she writes her own comedy bits... must be a performance artist all that about her coming absence and the future of Alaska, all the things happening there, all that she won't be a part of... it was all so funny watching her until I realized (at least back then, surely not now, not after Pres. Obama's "victory" yesterday) she might just be gearing up to be the next Prez...THE HORROR! a harder office to resign from... and then I circled back to something near my original thought which was to draw nourishment from the mystery of this kind of complete lunacy, and the vision of us and history that flows from it and then I thought such mad inspiration does really challenge those of us who sadly live for etertainment alone G.E. Schwartz > http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html > > Sorry, but I have never digested the lady. She resigns to Governor, that is > just so funny. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 2 13:10:11 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:10:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: <4DBEF448.8020501@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DBEF448.8020501@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Not for you to call yourself "oafish," Bob. Leave that to us. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 10:29 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> As an Alaskan, I can say that many of us have never been able to >> figure her-- or her appeal-- out either. She's dumb as a box of rocks >> and definitely undigested... thankfully, the public seems to be tiring >> of her tired self so she will likely be limited to her strange brand >> of punditry (dumbitry?)... maybe Bob can come up with a good term for >> her :) >> >> c >> > . > Cutie. As for her thinking, such as it is, no comment. I've tried to keep > my oafishness apolitical (for those of you who believe there's a difference > between poetics and politics). > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 14:20:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:20:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 10:47 AM, amy king wrote: > In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are > more inclined to seek some affirmation from others. > > Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. > > Can we get anymore masculine here? Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. > You make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a > knife and next to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash > along the way (or by what means you got that knife), while we (you > know, those of us attempting to be attuned to how our campaigns fit > into the larger social sphere, what rhetorical premises we capitalize > on and advance, etc.) are beholden to sustenance at the hands of the > 'ignorant masses' (i.e. that amorphous unstudied grouping called the > Wilshberians). > > Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and > navigate the world and poetics with. They (and your impulse to > fashion them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield > racist epitaphs because you believe you have the right to do so > without any repercussions or any concern for who they might harm. > Privilege and entitlement reign in your campaigns. > > Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good fun." > I hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these mental > exercises. No real harm intended. Right? > I think you're pretty close to understanding me, Amy. Next, you might understanding my ideas. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 14:33:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:33:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <205359.51945.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net ><522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net><257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DB ED430.70103@nut-n-but.net> <205359.51945.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBEF8E9.4090000@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 11:27 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob, > Ah, I see. I think my oozing thesis is starting to go to my head (due > date: May 28th). Along with other things. > But what racist epithet is Amy referring to?? I don't care for the > sound of that. Was offlist for that part... You got me. But I'm sure at some put in my posting I've defended freedom of speech, even for the casting of racist epithets. She may be referring to that. She really isn't very good at representing others, though. For instance, early on in her tirade against me, she says, "In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more inclined to seek some affirmation from others." Read what I say and you'll see it's not about speaking truth but about being concerned with truth (or ideas) more than with people's feelings, nor does it suggest I'm against seeking "some affirmation from others." It's a statement of a pretty simple idea, that some people are more idea people than people people, and I'm one of them. Beware, you may be one, too. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to take me as well as you seem to. Which I do appreciate. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 14:38:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:38:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 1:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 10:47 AM, amy king wrote: >> In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are >> more inclined to seek some affirmation from others. >> >> Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. >> >> Can we get anymore masculine here? Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. >> You make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a >> knife and next to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash >> along the way (or by what means you got that knife), while we (you >> know, those of us attempting to be attuned to how our campaigns fit >> into the larger social sphere, what rhetorical premises we capitalize >> on and advance, etc.) are beholden to sustenance at the hands of the >> 'ignorant masses' (i.e. that amorphous unstudied grouping called the >> Wilshberians). >> >> Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and >> navigate the world and poetics with. They (and your impulse to >> fashion them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield >> racist epitaphs because you believe you have the right to do so >> without any repercussions or any concern for who they might harm. >> Privilege and entitlement reign in your campaigns. >> >> Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good >> fun." I hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these >> mental exercises. No real harm intended. Right? >> > I think you're pretty close to understanding me, Amy. Next, you might > TRY understanding my ideas. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 2 14:01:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 14:01:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 Contemporary Poets You Should Know Message-ID: <8CDD70A07B9CDC5-13B4-8D44@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> http://flavorwire.com/170404/10-contemporary-poets-you-should-know 10 Contemporary Poets You Should Know Ada Lim?n Brenda Shaughnessy Cate Marvin Gabrielle Calvocoressi Mark Bibbins Meghan O'Rourke Randall Mann Thomas Sayers Ellis Tina Chang Tracy K. Smith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 2 14:46:23 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:46:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBED564.1020708@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Anyone who knows me will agree that I'm all about precision. But there is a new study out (Dana Logsdon, U Minnesota) suggesting that in the past quarter alone, "anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio" has declined a shocking 13.6% in its truth quotient, and an even more troubling 15% in its precisiofactodomium index. But don't blame me for this news. . . . I'm just reporting the objective facts. On 5/2/11 11:01 AM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > On 5/2/2011 9:41 AM, Graham, David wrote: >> > I for one plan to be highly shocked if the catchy term >> > "anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio" doesn't soon sweep the Internet. > . > Exactly, David. Because I coined it for precision, not pr. > > --Bob -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 16:41:24 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 15:41:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net> > Dear All, > My article on the literary movement of Symbolism is now available to > the public > on Scribd.com . > Here's the link: > > http://tinyurl.com/3oqta4q > > Best, > Dina . Nice job, Dina--and it came along just as I was needing more information on symbolism so I can fit it into the continuum of the last hundred years of poetry in English I've started work on. One question--what was the relationship of (avant garde) free verse to symbolism? Was it something separate brought into symbolism when symbolism started, or separate and brought into symbolism after symbolism started, or an innovation of the symbolists from the beginning, or their innovation later? I've been all over the Internet the past couple of hours but can't seem to find anything definitively answering my question. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 2 15:50:34 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: <4DBEF448.8020501@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DBEF448.8020501@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <863555.61802.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In Bob's world, poetics are absolutely apolitical.? With this extraction of the political from the poetic, he remains unaccountable for any harm his ideas may perpetuate.? They're just ideas, after all, borne from and by the thin air of nothingness.? They float in the ether, unattached to any 'real world stuff.' ? Bob enjoys his divisions.? And extractions.? Poetics don't have political implications, thank goodness!? We're just talking about the ways in which we use and manipulate language, for heaven's sake!? If people are affected, that's their fault... ? ? 'She's a cutie, but an idiot.'? See, all beings can be divided and reduced!? Reminds me of some student conversations I've overheard that bank on that same mentality:? "I'd do her, but I wouldn't talk to her!" ?> . Cutie.? As for her thinking, such as it is, no comment.? I've tried to keep my oafishness apolitical (for those of you who believe there's a difference between poetics and politics). --Bob From: Bob Grumman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 2 16:03:29 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I responded to your 20-80 percent "idea", Bob, in which you classify and tell us of our two poetic motivations.? But this is another ritual Bob-division.? These compartmentalizations you thrive on divorce what you say from accountability, as though your classifications have no bearing on the people (and the work they do)?you are classifying.? You umbrella everyone based on the very few things you?claim they read and teach, historically and recurringly.? If I play your name game and say you practice a 'Divisionist" poetics, why, I get to say loads of things about your practices and motivations (just as you give yourself permission to do about others) based on a reductive view of your practices.? Shall I also be as dogged as you in your insistence on?the "Wilshberia" label, pinned on poets not engaged?with or interested in?Vispo???I'm using?your tactics, Bob.? And now I proclaim?my use?apolitical.? The name and classification game!? How does it feel? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, May 2, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought On 5/2/2011 10:47 AM, amy king wrote: In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more inclined to seek some affirmation from others. ? > > >Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. > > >Can we get anymore masculine here? ?Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. ?You make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a knife and next to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash along the way (or by what means you got that knife), while we (you know, those of us attempting to be attuned to how our campaigns fit into the larger social sphere, what rhetorical premises we capitalize on and advance, etc.) are beholden to sustenance at the hands of the 'ignorant masses' (i.e. ?that amorphous unstudied grouping called the Wilshberians). ? > > >Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and navigate the world and poetics with. ?They (and your impulse to fashion them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield racist epitaphs because you believe you have the right to do so without any repercussions or any concern for who they might harm. ?Privilege and entitlement reign in your campaigns. ? > > >Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good fun." ?I hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these mental exercises. ?No real harm intended. ?Right? ? > >I think you're pretty close to understanding me, Amy.? Next, you might understanding my ideas. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 2 16:17:19 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DBEF8E9.4090000@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CDD66375730FB7-2C78-20B18@webmail-d 140.sysops.aol.com><4DBDF420.8070304@nut-n-but.net><929009.62179.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBE0C57.6090404@nut-n-but.net ><522278.53940.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBECA0B.2080408@nut-n-but.net><257044.29262.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DB ED430.70103@nut-n-but.net> <205359.51945.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBEF8E9.4090000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <841850.47912.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Oh sorry.? I'm referring to the time that Bob insisted on "reclaiming" the use of a dialect-not-his-own and racial slurs, and then insisted on reclaiming them, over and over very loudly on this very publicly archived listserv, despite protests from members of?this listserv community that what he was doing?ranged from?problematic?to unconscionable.? You see, Bob was only practicing his "ideas" so that he could assert his freedom of speech, which of course trumps the effects his language have on anyone else.? His purpose was far more important than who he might hurt by aping language he was trying to reclaim?while he?clearly and expertly understood how the dialect he was "practicing" evolved and what conditions it was borne from.? Bob even has some?astute ideas that will get him around the "Don't yell fire in a crowded theater" rule!? Ideas over the masses, folks! ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, May 2, 2011 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New at My Blog On 5/2/2011 11:27 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Bob, >Ah, I see.?I think?my oozing thesis is starting to go to my head (due date: May 28th). Along with other things. >But what racist epithet is Amy referring to?? I don't care for the sound of that. Was?offlist for that part...You got me.? But I'm sure at some put in my posting I've defended freedom of speech, even for the casting of racist epithets.? She may be referring to that.? She really isn't very good at representing others, though.? For instance, early on in her tirade against me, she says, "In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more inclined to seek some affirmation from others."? Read what I say and you'll see it's not about speaking truth but about being concerned with truth (or ideas) more than with people's feelings, nor does it suggest I'm against seeking "some affirmation from others."? It's a statement of a pretty simple idea, that some people are more idea people than people people, and I'm one of them.? Beware, you may be one, too.? Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to take me as well as you seem to.? Which I do appreciate. --Bob? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 2 16:44:33 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 22:44:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] aLASKA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The reflected reflection absorbed through a mirroring game not her _but her through him the chessboard blinking to the dazzled blind On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Her appeal to McCain was that with her > in the frame some would still look at the screen. > > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> As an Alaskan, I can say that many of us have never been able to >> figure her-- or her appeal-- out either. She's dumb as a box of rocks >> and definitely undigested... thankfully, the public seems to be tiring >> of her tired self so she will likely be limited to her strange brand >> of punditry (dumbitry?)... maybe Bob can come up with a good term for >> her :) >> >> c >> >> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Anny Ballardini >> wrote: >> > >> http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html >> > >> > Sorry, but I have never digested the lady. She resigns to Governor, that >> is >> > just so funny. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 18:21:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 17:21:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 3:03 PM, amy king wrote: > I responded to your 20-80 percent "idea", Bob, in which you classify > and tell us of our two poetic motivations. But this is another ritual > Bob-division. These compartmentalizations you thrive on divorce what > you say from accountability, as though your classifications have no > bearing on the people (and the work they do) you are classifying. You > umbrella everyone based on the very few things you claim they read and > teach, historically and recurringly. > If I play your name game and say you practice a 'Divisionist" poetics, > why, I get to say loads of things about your practices and motivations > (just as you give yourself permission to do about others) based on a > reductive view of your practices. Shall I also be as dogged as you in > your insistence on the "Wilshberia" label, pinned on poets not > engaged with or interested in Vispo? I'm using your tactics, Bob. > And now I proclaim my use apolitical. The name and classification > game! How does it feel? > Two possibilities, Amy: your critique is too far off to bother me or I'm just too unperceptive to appreciate how perfectly you've skewered me. Except that being skewered by words doesn't bother me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 17:19:32 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism In-Reply-To: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, I can't give you the American/English answer, but in French, a polish poet?named Marie Krysinska was one of those responsible for introducing free verse (late 1870s), shortly before Gustave Kahn, a Jewish "passeur" who got credit for it, but hasn't been otherwise well served by literary history. My future chair works on Kahn; both he and Krysinska are quite worth reading. Both are very thoroughly?Symbolists, as are later users: Jules Laforgue, Emile Verhaeren, Viel?-Griffin, Remy de Gourmont and many others, all in the 1880s-90s. I'm not sure if that answers the question. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 10:41:24 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism Dear All, >My article on the literary movement of Symbolism is now available to the public >on?Scribd.com. >Here's the link: > > >http://tinyurl.com/3oqta4q > > >Best,Dina >. Nice job, Dina--and it came along just as I was needing more information on symbolism so I can fit it into the continuum of the last hundred years of poetry in English I've started work on.? One question--what was the relationship of (avant garde) free verse to symbolism?? Was it something separate brought into symbolism when symbolism started, or separate and brought into symbolism after symbolism started, or an innovation of the symbolists from the beginning, or their innovation later?? I've been all over the Internet the past couple of hours but can't seem to find anything definitively answering my question. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 18:44:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 17:44:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism In-Reply-To: <814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net> <814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 4:19 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob, > I can't give you the American/English answer, but in French, a polish > poet named Marie Krysinska was one of those responsible for > introducing free verse (late 1870s), shortly before Gustave Kahn, a > Jewish "passeur" who got credit for it, but hasn't been otherwise well > served by literary history. My future chair works on Kahn; both he and > Krysinska are quite worth reading. Both are very > thoroughly Symbolists, as are later users: Jules Laforgue, Emile > Verhaeren, Viel?-Griffin, Remy de Gourmont and many others, all in the > 1880s-90s. I'm not sure if that answers the question. > Amicalement, > Alex . Thanks, Alex. Yes, I've always assumed the French were responsible. Sounds like it came in symbolism but wasn't with it at the very beginning? Marie Krysinska is new to me--a pole living in France or a French woman of Polish descent? Or someone Polish writing in French? Not that it matters, just curious. Who, while I have you, would you say was the first symbolist (if it could have been only one person)? Baudelaire? Mallarme? Verlaine? Rimbaud? Someone else? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 17:57:11 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism In-Reply-To: <4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net> <814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Probably Baudelaire, only because the Symbolists wouldn't exist if not for him, but he's mostly a Romantic, as far as I'm concerned. Krysinska was a polish emigrant; she hung out with the Chat Noir crowd. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 12:44:30 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism On 5/2/2011 4:19 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Bob, >I can't give you the American/English answer, but in French, a polish poet?named >Marie Krysinska was one of those responsible for introducing free verse (late >1870s), shortly before Gustave Kahn, a Jewish "passeur" who got credit for it, >but hasn't been otherwise well served by literary history. My future chair works >on Kahn; both he and Krysinska are quite worth reading. Both are very >thoroughly?Symbolists, as are later users: Jules Laforgue, Emile Verhaeren, >Viel?-Griffin, Remy de Gourmont and many others, all in the 1880s-90s. I'm not >sure if that answers the question. >Amicalement, >Alex >. Thanks, Alex.? Yes, I've always assumed the French were responsible.? Sounds like it came in symbolism but wasn't with it at the very beginning?? Marie Krysinska is new to me--a pole living in France or a French woman of Polish descent?? Or someone Polish writing in French?? Not that it matters, just curious. Who, while I have you, would you say was the first symbolist (if it could have been only one person)?? Baudelaire?? Mallarme?? Verlaine?? Rimbaud?? Someone else? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 2 19:29:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 18:29:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism In-Reply-To: <157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net><814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yaho o.com><4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net> <157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBF3E58.2010404@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 4:57 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Probably Baudelaire, only because the Symbolists wouldn't exist if not > for him, but he's mostly a Romantic, as far as I'm concerned. > Krysinska was a polish emigrant; she hung out with the Chat Noir crowd. > Amicalement, > Alex Thanks, Alex. You have me wanting to take a refresher course in 19th century French poetry. You know, Baudelaforgia. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon May 2 21:20:52 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:20:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, that is, I think, the most offensive thing you've written here since you and Marcus Bales went after each other. I never understood why just the one of you was banned. Your work is good. Your pontifications are ... well, my mother wouldn't approve of my language. On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 1:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I think you're pretty close to understanding me, Amy.? Next, you might TRY > understanding my ideas. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 2 22:38:48 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Elaine Equi on Tom Clark Message-ID: An excellent review by Elaine Equi on the new-and-selected volume by Tom Clark, a poet who should be much better known. http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/elaine-equi-natural-on-tc-light-shade.html I may have mentioned this before, but Tom Clark's own blog is one of the tiny handful that I make a point to visit regularly. Always something of interest, not always poetry. Always gorgeous photos. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 2 23:22:18 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 20:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Only you would think, and frame, in terms of "skewering," Bob.? It's all battle battle battle where you tread -- and dominate.? I couldn't possibly be saying anything that has any bearing on what you actually do here, on repeat, on this list.? No one could skewer you, Bob; you're too thick, an obtuseness you don when the finger points back.? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, May 2, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought On 5/2/2011 3:03 PM, amy king wrote: I responded to your 20-80 percent "idea", Bob, in which you classify and tell us of our two poetic motivations.? But this is another ritual Bob-division.? These compartmentalizations you thrive on divorce what you say from accountability, as though your classifications have no bearing on the people (and the work they do)?you are classifying.? You umbrella everyone based on the very few things you?claim they read and teach, historically and recurringly.? >? >If I play your name game and say you practice a 'Divisionist" poetics, why, I get to say loads of things about your practices and motivations (just as you give yourself permission to do about others) based on a reductive view of your practices.? Shall I also be as dogged as you in your insistence on?the "Wilshberia" label, pinned on poets not engaged?with or interested in?Vispo???I'm using?your tactics, Bob.? And now I proclaim?my use?apolitical.? The name and classification game!? How does it feel? >? >? > Two possibilities, Amy: your critique is too far off to bother me or I'm just too unperceptive to appreciate how perfectly you've skewered me.? Except that being skewered by words doesn't bother me. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue May 3 04:59:41 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 01:59:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Grilled, previously marinated skew/ers are really delicious! Please remember that. All best, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 3 05:22:57 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:22:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: dear truthy bob you marlboro marathon man you glen glen tah You 80% malcontent under the dog bent substantial unamorphous studied thesaurus _you Tarzan_ you rhetorics capitalizer advancer beholder you percussion fighter repercussed miter you unharmful campaigner you epitaph welder spectrograph solder navigator/alligator green ballad maker Only Youuuu, you make the world shine through, You solar panel, you taxi driver, sea android, you tabloid, aghast I am Yours On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:47 PM, amy king wrote: > In other words, Bob speaks more truth than the rest of us, who are more > inclined to seek some affirmation from others. > > Bob is more truthy. We are more needy. > > Can we get anymore masculine here? Bob, you are the Marlboro Man. You > make your own way, slashing through the thickets with just a knife and next > to no concern (well, perhaps "20%") for who you slash along the way (or by > what means you got that knife), while we (you know, those of us attempting > to be attuned to how our campaigns fit into the larger social sphere, what > rhetorical premises we capitalize on and advance, etc.) are beholden to > sustenance at the hands of the 'ignorant masses' (i.e. that amorphous > unstudied grouping called the Wilshberians). > > Utterly ridiculous, these "abstract" terms you fashion to control and > navigate the world and poetics with. They (and your impulse to fashion > them) are as old fashioned as your privileged need to wield racist epitaphs > because you believe you have the right to do so without any repercussions or > any concern for who they might harm. Privilege and entitlement reign in > your campaigns. > > Apologies to those of you who tolerate his declarations in "good fun." I > hope you'll respect my turn to have "good fun" in these mental exercises. > No real harm intended. Right? > > > *From:* Bob Grumman * > * > > You know, Anny, what you write above inspired a thought: that everyone > varies in the anthrocentricity/verosophy ratio of what he says and writes. > By this I mean that we all write with at least some aim of producing a > certain reaction in others AND with at least some aim of expressing some > truth as we see it, without regard for others' reactions. Those whose usual > a/v ratio is, say, 80/20 will tend to think that someone like me, whose > usual a/v ratio is the opposite, speak and write to elicit reactions from > others when in fact all we're doing is saying what we think as exactly as > possible (true, without making *too* many enemies). > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 08:18:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 07:18:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net><61 35.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DBFF27A.4010101@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 10:22 PM, amy king wrote: > Only you would think, and frame, in terms of "skewering," Bob. It's > all battle battle battle where you tread -- and dominate. I couldn't > possibly be saying anything that has any bearing on what you actually > do here, on repeat, on this list. No one could skewer you, Bob; > you're too thick, an obtuseness you don when the finger points back. You politely say at best I'm problematic, at worst unconscionable, and I call it skewering. How foolish of me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Tue May 3 08:41:26 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:41:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... Message-ID: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> A thoughtful article by Ingrid Wendt, "The Unknown Good in Our Enemies: The Poetry of William Stafford and Poetry from the Middle East": http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Resources/Journals/CC/0203-mar2011/Poetry%20Commentary_Wendt.pdf ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 09:04:12 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <6135.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <960954.27419.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I hope you're right, Catherine! ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly Grilled, previously marinated skew/ers are really delicious! ?Please remember that. All best, Catherine _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 09:03:31 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DBFF27A.4010101@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net><61 35.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBFF27A.4010101@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <143154.85562.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> No, Bob.? I noted that during your 'freedom of speech' campaign, members of this list called for a halt to your writing in 'dialect', characterizing the act itself in range of complaints from problematic to unconscionable.??? But it is easier to ignore / dismiss what I'm saying here if I'm merely calling *you* names. And "skewering" you.? ? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman You politely say at best I'm problematic, at worst unconscionable, and I call it skewering.? How foolish of me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 10:02:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:02:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Symbolism & French Aesthetic Thought In-Reply-To: <157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net><814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net> <157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDD7B1CF03D364-C9C-F674@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Saw this on another list, so I snagged it... Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:30:43 -0400 From: "Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon" Subject: My article on the literary movement of Symbolism Dear All, My article on the literary movement of Symbolism is now available to the public on Scribd.com. Here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/3oqta4q -- I've been reading a good book called the The Aesthetic Thought of the French Enlightenment by Francis X. J. Coleman. Montesquieu, Cruosaz, Dubos, Diderot, d'Alembert, Condillac, Batteaux, Trublet are quoted and crtiqued on their ideas of beauty in the arts, and aspects emating from Cartesian dualism as it relates to beauty coming from the senses or intellect... Here's a quoted by Trublet I posted yesterday... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2011/05/one-will-tell-me-perhaps-that-there-are.html Of course, if I had the French that Alex does, I could read all these people in the original. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 5:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism Probably Baudelaire, only because the Symbolists wouldn't exist if not for him, but he's mostly a Romantic, as far as I'm concerned. Krysinska was a polish emigrant; she hung out with the Chat Noir crowd. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 12:44:30 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My article on Symbolism On 5/2/2011 4:19 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Bob, I can't give you the American/English answer, but in French, a polish poet named Marie Krysinska was one of those responsible for introducing free verse (late 1870s), shortly before Gustave Kahn, a Jewish "passeur" who got credit for it, but hasn't been otherwise well served by literary history. My future chair works on Kahn; both he and Krysinska are quite worth reading. Both are very thoroughly Symbolists, as are later users: Jules Laforgue, Emile Verhaeren, Viel?-Griffin, Remy de Gourmont and many others, all in the 1880s-90s. I'm not sure if that answers the question. Amicalement, Alex . Thanks, Alex. Yes, I've always assumed the French were responsible. Sounds like it came in symbolism but wasn't with it at the very beginning? Marie Krysinska is new to me--a pole living in France or a French woman of Polish descent? Or someone Polish writing in French? Not that it matters, just curious. Who, while I have you, would you say was the first symbolist (if it could have been only one person)? Baudelaire? Mallarme? Verlaine? Rimbaud? Someone else? --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 10:05:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:05:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ernesto Cardenal's poetry is evolving Message-ID: <8CDD7B25D182114-C9C-F7DB@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-27/news/29494502_1_poets-famous-poems-carmen-boullosa Ernesto Cardenal's poetry is evolving BY CARLOS RODR GUEZ MARTORELL DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, April 27, 2011 Priest, revolutionary, minister of culture and, above all, a poet, Nicaraguan Ernesto Cardenal is a man of many callings. Those who remember him from his love epigrams, popular in Latin America in the 1970s, will probably be surprised when they read his newest book of poems, devoted to naturalist Charles Darwin. "It's like scientific poetry or poetic science," says Cardenal, 86, by phone from his office in Managua. "There is science fiction, so this could be called science poetry." The idea of the book - "The Origin of Species and Other Poems" (Texas Tech University Press, translated into English by John Lyons) - came about two years ago, while Cardenal was visiting Chicago's Field Museum. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 11:22:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:22:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 4:22 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > dear truthy bob > you marlboro marathon man > you glen glen tah > You 80% malcontent under the dog bent > substantial unamorphous studied thesaurus > _you Tarzan_ > you rhetorics capitalizer > advancer beholder > you percussion fighter > repercussed miter > you unharmful campaigner > you epitaph welder > spectrograph solder navigator/alligator green ballad maker > > Only Youuuu, you make the world shine through, You solar panel, you > taxi driver, sea android, you tabloid, > > aghast I am > Yours . Whaddya mean, "unharmful campaigner?!?!?" Otherwise, I am pleased to have inspired your poem. Hey, whose side do you think our buddy Freddy would be on, Amy's or mine? --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 11:30:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:30:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4D BECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net> On 5/2/2011 8:20 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Bob, that is, I think, the most offensive thing you've written here > since you and Marcus Bales went after each other. I never understood > why just the one of you was banned. . Truly sorry to hear that, Mike. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 10:26:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer Issue TOWER JOURNAL In-Reply-To: <9D0978663624435E8CFDA4708ADB28A5@MaryAnnPC> References: <9D0978663624435E8CFDA4708ADB28A5@MaryAnnPC> Message-ID: <8CDD7B52EB6C5DB-C9C-10138@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Tad, did you see these?...better get out that pencil and start sketching... http://www.towerjournal.com/spring2011/index.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: SULLIVAN To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:12 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer Issue TOWER JOURNAL The latest issue of the Tower Journal can now be read at http://www.towerjournal.com The issue features Cambridge poet, Celia Gilbert; digital poetry by the Egyptian poet, Yahia Lababidi and the Egyptian filmmaker Sally el Hosaini; digital poetry by Yahia Lababidi and Swoon Bildos; the poetry of Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino and many other notable and worthy poets. Of special note are the sketches of poets "Poetical Sketches" by Helen Breger, accompanied by Jack Foley poems read aloud, and the song poetry of G.P. Skratz. Mary Ann Sullivan _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue May 3 10:27:13 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:27:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... In-Reply-To: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> References: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for this, David. On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:41 AM, David Graham wrote: > A thoughtful article by Ingrid Wendt, "The Unknown Good in Our Enemies: The > Poetry of William Stafford and Poetry from the Middle East": > > > http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Resources/Journals/CC/0203-mar2011/Poetry%20Commentary_Wendt.pdf > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 11:34:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:34:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Symbolism & French Aesthetic Thought In-Reply-To: <8CDD7B1CF03D364-C9C-F674@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DBF16F4.8040809@nut-n-but.net><814126.55873.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yaho o.com><4DBF33CE.9080006@nut-n-but.net><157063.42779.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CDD7B1CF03D364-C9C-F674@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC02078.3010608@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 9:02 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Saw this on another list, so I snagged it... > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:30:43 -0400 > From: "Dr. Dina Ripsman Eylon" > > Subject: My article on the literary movement of Symbolism > > Dear All, > My article on the literary movement of Symbolism is now available to > the public > on Scribd.com. > Here's the link: > > http://tinyurl.com/3oqta4q . Dr. Dina already posted the announcement here, Finnegan, and me and that French kid had a short back&forth about symbolism because of it. This Scribd.com looks interesting. Apparently it's a site one can post essays like the one on symbolism at. Anyone know much about about it? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 11:42:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:42:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <143154.85562.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net><61 35.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net><957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBFF27A. 4010101@nut-n-but.net> <143154.85562.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC02269.6080600@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 8:03 AM, amy king wrote: > No, Bob. I noted that during your 'freedom of speech' campaign, > members of this list called for a halt to your writing in 'dialect', > characterizing the act itself in range of complaints from problematic > to unconscionable. > > But it is easier to ignore / dismiss what I'm saying here if I'm > merely calling *you* names. And "skewering" you. > I stand corrected. I'm not a person who at best is problematic, at worst unconscionable, I'm only a person who does things that at best are problematic, at worst unconscionable. I've answered what you're saying sufficiently for my purposes. Trying to explain how incompletely you understand my thinking, which is all I want to discuss, would take too much time, and almost certainly be futile. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue May 3 10:43:13 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:43:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer Issue TOWER JOURNAL In-Reply-To: <8CDD7B52EB6C5DB-C9C-10138@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> References: <9D0978663624435E8CFDA4708ADB28A5@MaryAnnPC> <8CDD7B52EB6C5DB-C9C-10138@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I found the Celia Gilbert poems and portraits first, and liked them a lot. Not sure I like the Helen Breger drawings as much, but the Foley/Breger collaboration, poems and drawings, is interesting. I'm redoing my whole site, since I've found that so many of the links are broken. I'm adding new info and links to each entry, and when I'm finished all the housekeeping, I'll start adding new stuff. On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:26 AM, wrote: > Tad, did you see these?...better get out that pencil and start sketching... > http://www.towerjournal.com/spring2011/index.html > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: SULLIVAN > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:12 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer Issue TOWER JOURNAL > > The latest issue of the Tower Journal can now be read at > http://www.towerjournal.com > > The issue features Cambridge poet, Celia Gilbert; digital poetry by the > Egyptian poet, Yahia Lababidi and the Egyptian filmmaker Sally el Hosaini; > digital poetry by Yahia Lababidi and Swoon Bildos; the poetry of Gregory > Vincent St. Thomasino and many other notable and worthy poets. > > Of special note are the sketches of poets "Poetical Sketches" by Helen > Breger, accompanied by Jack Foley poems read aloud, and the song poetry of > G.P. Skratz. > > Mary Ann Sullivan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 11:49:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:49:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Now at My Blog In-Reply-To: <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><4824 82.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC02400.7080407@nut-n-but.net> An attempt, but not my first, to help people appreciate visual poetry--http://poeticks.com. Also now at my blog is a "page" (off to the right) called "Literary Terms" that includes my definition of the locale on the contemporary American poetry continuum whose name must not be spoken. I hope that those who keep mischaracterizing it will take the time to check it before again writing about it. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 11:56:00 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC02269.6080600@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net><61 35.24964.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net><957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBFF27A. 4010101@nut-n-but.net> <143154.85562.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC02269.6080600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <140732.76656.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "...which is all I want to discuss." - Exactly my point.? You think the members of this list should cow-tow to the terms and methods by which *you* want to discuss issues, without consideration of the fact that you're part of a GROUP and that your words and rhetoric certainly affect people and limit conversation.? So you push on, dominate by posting ad nauseum, pigeonholing people all along the way via whatever your latest name calling consists of -- and then, if called on it, pretend you're only discussing "objective" ideas, that you are innocent of ad hominem strains and all manner of nasty tactics to bully and coerce people to your interests. "...which is all I want to discuss."? Except we're not having a discussion, Bob.? I have pointed out the problems with your rhetorical tactics, which are consistently problematic, and you have played the evasion game, re-framing what I've said (coincidentally, into accusations of ad hominem that you employ regularly) so as not to actually engage with the tenets of my argument.? But that's cool; I didn't really expect anything more in the immediate.? I only hope that two effects might transpire:? 1.)? Perhaps what I've said will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the future via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html , and 2.)? Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying this behavior is, and its predominance, in the future.? Reminds me of how we're all just supposed to smile and look the other way when my grandpa makes racist statements because he's just a sweet, lovable guy in the end.? Except I don't think grandpa should set the mood in the entire room and expect us to smile complacently just because grandpa might call upon the privileges of being the patriarch if he's unsettled.? To that end, when Bob was booted offlist for a period, it seemed like people who lurk here spoke more often.? Or am I just romanticizing that short era? Further, I don't know if James has rec'd backchannels of a similar ilk, but a couple of women on this list have complained to me about the general tone with which their posts have been rec'd.? I won't name names, but contributions like the ones Bob makes that I have pointed out certainly contribute to that general feeling of unwelcome.? Of course, this could just be in my head too, unless some of these women speak up on list.? That said, while I haven't been active much as of late (I'm teaching far too many classes & have spread myself thin), I do enjoy coming here and discovering the latest worthwhile poetics discussion or news item, including some contributions made by Bob!? What I don't enjoy is having to wade through Bob's didactic posts where he pigeonholes and bullies and coerces, as noted.? It's as though he is unable to get people interested in the poetics he wants to discuss by their value alone.?? Good day, Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman I stand corrected.? I'm not a person who at best is problematic, at worst unconscionable, I'm only a person who does things that at best are problematic, at worst unconscionable. I've answered what you're saying sufficiently for my purposes.? Trying to explain how incompletely you understand my thinking, which is all I want to discuss, would take too much time, and almost certainly be futile.? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 3 12:04:51 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 11:04:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <140732.76656.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amen to all Amy has said. Lately I've been crazy busy, too, and not really keeping my end up as one of the original "Correspondents" on this list. I hereby pledge to try to post more often & productively. And I urge others who may feel uneasy with the general tone hereabouts to do likewise. The general rule of email lists still applies: best way to change the tone in the long run is to ignore & delete what you don't like, and contribute & engage with what you do like. To that end, did anyone besides Tad have a chance yet to read the article by Ingrid Wendt that I linked to? Much to ponder there, about poetry & politics, cultural difference, teaching, and so forth. Here's the link again: A thoughtful article by Ingrid Wendt, "The Unknown Good in Our Enemies: The Poetry of William Stafford and Poetry from the Middle East": http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Resources/Journals/CC/0203-mar2011/Poe try%20Commentary_Wendt.pdf On 5/3/11 10:56 AM, "amy king" wrote: > "...which is all I want to discuss." - Exactly my point. You think the > members of this list should cow-tow to the terms and methods by which *you* > want to discuss issues, without consideration of the fact that you're part of > a GROUP and that your words and rhetoric certainly affect people and limit > conversation. So you push on, dominate by posting ad nauseum, pigeonholing > people all along the way via whatever your latest name calling consists of -- > and then, if called on it, pretend you're only discussing "objective" ideas, > that you are innocent of ad hominem strains and all manner of nasty tactics to > bully and coerce people to your interests. > > "...which is all I want to discuss." Except we're not having a discussion, > Bob. I have pointed out the problems with your rhetorical tactics, which are > consistently problematic, and you have played the evasion game, re-framing > what I've said (coincidentally, into accusations of ad hominem that you employ > regularly) so as not to actually engage with the tenets of my argument. But > that's cool; I didn't really expect anything more in the immediate. > > I only hope that two effects might transpire: 1.) Perhaps what I've said > will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the future > via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html , and > 2.) Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying this > behavior is, and its predominance, in the future. Reminds me of how we're all > just supposed to smile and look the other way when my grandpa makes racist > statements because he's just a sweet, lovable guy in the end. Except I don't > think grandpa should set the mood in the entire room and expect us to smile > complacently just because grandpa might call upon the privileges of being the > patriarch if he's unsettled. To that end, when Bob was booted offlist for a > period, it seemed like people who lurk here spoke more often. Or am I just > romanticizing that short era? > > Further, I don't know if James has rec'd backchannels of a similar ilk, but a > couple of women on this list have complained to me about the general tone with > which their posts have been rec'd. I won't name names, but contributions like > the ones Bob makes that I have pointed out certainly contribute to that > general feeling of unwelcome. Of course, this could just be in my head too, > unless some of these women speak up on list. > > That said, while I haven't been active much as of late (I'm teaching far too > many classes & have spread myself thin), I do enjoy coming here and > discovering the latest worthwhile poetics discussion or news item, including > some contributions made by Bob! What I don't enjoy is having to wade through > Bob's didactic posts where he pigeonholes and bullies and coerces, as noted. > It's as though he is unable to get people interested in the poetics he wants > to discuss by their value alone. > > Good day, > > Amy ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 12:11:11 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... In-Reply-To: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> References: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <676858.96392.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> And an excellent poem by her today arrived in my inbox from Poets.org: The Libraries Didn't Burn by Elaine Equi despite books kindled in electronic flames. The locket of bookish love still opens and shuts. But its words have migrated to a luminous elsewhere. Neither completely oral nor written ? a somewhere in between. Then will oak, willow, birch, and olive poets return to their digital tribes ? trees wander back to the forest? ________________________________ From: David Graham To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... A thoughtful article by Ingrid Wendt, "The Unknown Good in Our Enemies: The Poetry of William Stafford and Poetry from the Middle East": http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Resources/Journals/CC/0203-mar2011/Poetry%20Commentary_Wendt.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 3 12:16:10 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 11:16:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visiting Dr. Williams Message-ID: A new volume has appeared in the wonderful U Iowa Press series of anthologies paying tribute to elder poets, edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro. This one is titled *Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life & Work of William Carlos Williams*. I am proud to have a poem in the collection, along with the poets ranging from Wallace Stevens through Alice Friman. Earlier volumes in the series cover Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, and Robert Frost. My own contribution is an odd one--a rewrite of "The Red Wheelbarrow" in the style of Charles Wright, titled "Red Wheel Boogie and Dog Star Night." I have no recollection of why I wrote it. Note from the publisher: A foreword by poet and Williams biographer Paul Mariani place this revolutionary physician-poet in understandable context, an introduction, by editors Sheila Coghill and Thom Tammaro provides further understanding of the poet and his influence. But the heart of the book is found in the poems themselves, which demonstrate just how vital Williams remains in our collective memory. Robert Creeley, David Wojhan, Maxine Kumin, James Laughlin, A. R. Ammons, Wendell Berry, Heid Erdrich, Frank O'Hara, Lyn Lifshin, Denise Levertov, Wallave Stevens,John Ashbery, Allen Ginsberg, Philip Levine, and a host of other poets draw upon a wide range of voices,styles, and forms to pay tribute to William's unique legacy. More info here: http://www.uiowapress.org/books/2011-spring/visiting-dr-williams.htm -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 12:14:50 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... In-Reply-To: <676858.96392.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <50CFB953-FC9A-4829-BA73-60D828A0506D@ripon.edu> <676858.96392.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <392194.13306.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sorry, that email was meant to be in reply to David's other post: Monday, May 2, 2011 10:38 PM An excellent review by Elaine Equi on the new-and-selected volume by Tom Clark, a poet who should be much better known. http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/elaine-equi-natural-on-tc-light-shade.html I may have mentioned this before, but Tom Clark's own blog is one of the tiny handful that I make a point to visit regularly. ?Always something of interest, not always poetry. ?Always gorgeous photos. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... And an excellent poem by her today arrived in my inbox from Poets.org: The Libraries Didn't Burn by Elaine Equi despite books kindled in electronic flames. The locket of bookish love still opens and shuts. But its words have migrated to a luminous elsewhere. Neither completely oral nor written ? a somewhere in between. Then will oak, willow, birch, and olive poets return to their digital tribes ? trees wander back to the forest? ________________________________ From: David Graham To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] In light of current events... A thoughtful article by Ingrid Wendt, "The Unknown Good in Our Enemies: The Poetry of William Stafford and Poetry from the Middle East": http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Resources/Journals/CC/0203-mar2011/Poetry%20Commentary_Wendt.pdf _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 12:09:39 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:09:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <140732.76656.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBF2E74.5000603@nut-n-but.net> <957270.19884.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <143154.85562.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC02269.6080600@nut-n-but.net> <140732.76656.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Of course, Bob's posts can easily be filtered right into your trash. And, yes, of course, I've done that for largish chunks of time. Sorry, Bob. That's how it is with us nihilists. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:56 AM, amy king wrote: > "...which is all I want to discuss." - Exactly my point. You think the > members of this list should cow-tow to the terms and methods by which *you* > want to discuss issues, without consideration of the fact that you're part > of a GROUP and that your words and rhetoric certainly affect people and > limit conversation. So you push on, dominate by posting ad nauseum, > pigeonholing people all along the way via whatever your latest name calling > consists of -- and then, if called on it, pretend you're only discussing > "objective" ideas, that you are innocent of ad hominem strains and all > manner of nasty tactics to bully and coerce people to your interests. > > "...which is all I want to discuss." Except we're not having a discussion, > Bob. I have pointed out the problems with your rhetorical tactics, which > are consistently problematic, and you have played the evasion game, > re-framing what I've said (coincidentally, into accusations of ad hominem > that you employ regularly) so as not to actually engage with the tenets of > my argument. But that's cool; I didn't really expect anything more in the > immediate. > > I only hope that two effects might transpire: 1.) Perhaps what I've said > will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the future > via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html , > and 2.) Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying this > behavior is, and its predominance, in the future. Reminds me of how we're > all just supposed to smile and look the other way when my grandpa makes > racist statements because he's just a sweet, lovable guy in the end. Except > I don't think grandpa should set the mood in the entire room and expect us > to smile complacently just because grandpa might call upon the privileges of > being the patriarch if he's unsettled. To that end, when Bob was booted > offlist for a period, it seemed like people who lurk here spoke more often. > Or am I just romanticizing that short era? > > Further, I don't know if James has rec'd backchannels of a similar ilk, but > a couple of women on this list have complained to me about the general tone > with which their posts have been rec'd. I won't name names, but > contributions like the ones Bob makes that I have pointed out certainly > contribute to that general feeling of unwelcome. Of course, this could just > be in my head too, unless some of these women speak up on list. > > That said, while I haven't been active much as of late (I'm teaching far > too many classes & have spread myself thin), I do enjoy coming here and > discovering the latest worthwhile poetics discussion or news item, including > some contributions made by Bob! What I don't enjoy is having to wade > through Bob's didactic posts where he pigeonholes and bullies and coerces, > as noted. It's as though he is unable to get people interested in the > poetics he wants to discuss by their value alone. > > Good day, > > Amy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > > I stand corrected. I'm not a person who at best is problematic, at worst > unconscionable, I'm only a person who does things that at best are > problematic, at worst unconscionable. > > I've answered what you're saying sufficiently for my purposes. Trying to > explain how incompletely you understand my thinking, which is all I want to > discuss, would take too much time, and almost certainly be futile. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 14:02:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 13:02:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC04325.4060902@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 11:04 AM, David Graham wrote: > Amen to all Amy has said. Lately I've been crazy busy, too, and not > really keeping my end up as one of the original "Correspondents" on > this list. I hereby pledge to try to post more often & productively. > And I urge others who may feel uneasy with the general tone > hereabouts to do likewise. The general rule of email lists still > applies: best way to change the tone in the long run is to ignore & > delete what you don't like, and contribute & engage with what you do > like. . But banning what you don't like is so much quicker. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 12:57:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 12:57:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Business Is to Create In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDD7CA4263F817-10E8-1C396@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> Another new Iowa book worth noting... http://www.uiowapress.org/books/2011-spring/my-business-create.htm My Business Is to Create Blake's Infinite Writing Eric G. Wilson -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 12:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Visiting Dr. Williams A new volume has appeared in the wonderful U Iowa Press series of anthologies paying tribute to elder poets, edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro. This one is titled *Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life & Work of William Carlos Williams*. I am proud to have a poem in the collection, along with the poets ranging from Wallace Stevens through Alice Friman. Earlier volumes in the series cover Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, and Robert Frost. My own contribution is an odd one--a rewrite of "The Red Wheelbarrow" in the style of Charles Wright, titled "Red Wheel Boogie and Dog Star Night." I have no recollection of why I wrote it. Note from the publisher: A foreword by poet and Williams biographer Paul Mariani place this revolutionary physician-poet in understandable context, an introduction, by editors Sheila Coghill and Thom Tammaro provides further understanding of the poet and his influence. But the heart of the book is found in the poems themselves, which demonstrate just how vital Williams remains in our collective memory. Robert Creeley, David Wojhan, Maxine Kumin, James Laughlin, A. R. Ammons, Wendell Berry, Heid Erdrich, Frank O'Hara, Lyn Lifshin, Denise Levertov, Wallave Stevens,John Ashbery, Allen Ginsberg, Philip Levine, and a host of other poets draw upon a wide range of voices,styles, and forms to pay tribute to William's unique legacy. More info here: http://www.uiowapress.org/books/2011-spring/visiting-dr-williams.htm -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 13:06:04 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 13:06:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] match the poet with the title Message-ID: <8CDD7CB850DC184-10E8-1C5E8@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> A little matching quiz over at Bemsha Swing... http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/04/little-quiz.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 3 14:26:13 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:26:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Tragic-Comic Narrative" Message-ID: *Tragic-Comic Narrative* *Rococo* is mentioned at the same time *ornate* is mentioned. The customizer is a customer for mass customization. One doesn't ask why a neighbor looks stricken and throws a suitcase into her car. A November moment when people side-step into the sun from shade gone bitter and recall July when they side-stepped into the shade. There is a kind of hurrying-back. One seeks elucidation and has recourse to television. Breaking news might explain, or an interrupted game. Still at the same party where three women here and two men over there speak at the same time, you feel deflated in your clothes. There is always distraction. The show called "Tourist Planet" is remembered by looking out the window just to see. Or an old man addresses his penis: "So? Big deal. You can get rid of wrinkles." -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Tue May 3 15:27:11 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:27:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4D BECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> <4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> Just to be clear, I didn't mean that I thought you should have been banned - rather that, as far as I could see (and of course I couldn't see any backchannel weirdness), the fault was no more Marcus's than yours. You were both very tiresome. www.mikesnider.org On May 3, 2011, at 11:30, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/2/2011 8:20 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> Bob, that is, I think, the most offensive thing you've written here >> since you and Marcus Bales went after each other. I never understood >> why just the one of you was banned. > . > Truly sorry to hear that, Mike. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 16:35:38 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 15:35:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. --Bob http://www.muttonline.com/members/ ** ** ** *MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over the country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. * ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 16:44:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 15:44:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net> <0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 2:27 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Just to be clear, I didn't mean that I thought you should have been banned - rather that, as far as I could see (and of course I couldn't see any backchannel weirdness), the fault was no more Marcus's than yours. You were both very tiresome. Glad to hear you seem not to be in favor of banning, Mike. I can't remember any details but it may have been that Marcus and I were both warned, and I was able to control myself for longer than he was. You have to remember that we were arguing about the proper definition of poetry, and there /are/ poets for whom that is important. He invited me to be a Facebook friend, by the way. Accepting the invitation, I wrote him a short note about what he was up to now. No response. He's one of the few New-Poetry people I've actually met in person. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 15:55:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:55:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Actually, I thought that was Mutton Line. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got > two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. > > --Bob > > http://www.muttonline.com/members/ > > * * > ** > * * > *MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over the > country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. * > * * > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 16:08:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 16:08:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDD7E4F352E2D0-1444-22F14@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Quoting from their HOME page, it states "Think Together with like minded individuals in our Forums..." Gook luck with that. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:35 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. --Bob http://www.muttonline.com/members/ MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over the country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 3 16:23:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 22:23:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Who's Freddy? Sorry if this seems inappropriate but I do have a headache tonight. On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/3/2011 4:22 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> dear truthy bob >> you marlboro marathon man >> you glen glen tah >> You 80% malcontent under the dog bent >> substantial unamorphous studied thesaurus >> _you Tarzan_ >> you rhetorics capitalizer >> advancer beholder >> you percussion fighter >> repercussed miter >> you unharmful campaigner >> you epitaph welder >> spectrograph solder navigator/alligator green ballad maker >> >> Only Youuuu, you make the world shine through, You solar panel, you taxi >> driver, sea android, you tabloid, >> >> aghast I am >> Yours >> > . > Whaddya mean, "unharmful campaigner?!?!?" Otherwise, I am pleased to have > inspired your poem. > > Hey, whose side do you think our buddy Freddy would be on, Amy's or mine? > > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue May 3 16:26:06 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:26:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought Message-ID: Amy, I've been on this list for 8 years, a fact more of embarrassment than pride. My thoughts about poetry have changed, but my thoughts about Bob have not. He talks too much and says too little. If a study were made, my guess is he's the author or the subject of 65% of the posts on this list. Maybe it seems like a kind of fame. He doesn't know or care any more about philosophy than is necessary to try to bring attention to his type of poetry--ie, to himself. Try to quench your thirst for knowledge, you'll find you're drinking from a mud puddle. With all these posts, all these "ideas", he is claiming his right to exist. It's like being stuck in a crowded elevator with Danny Devito on methamphetamines. One hopes the firemen will arrive. But, then, we all know what it is to have an id -- or whatever you call the monster that lives between your ears. The best defense, I think, is to calm the monster, get it to lie down if you can, and then have interesting conversations-- ignore the din outside too-- it's just a man after all on a skinny nag with a basin on his head and a broken lance in his hand, a-clattering from London to Jerusalem, singing, shouting, prating from his cradle to his grave in praise of folly. yours... > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought > > > I only hope that two effects might transpire:? 1.)? Perhaps what I've said > will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the future > via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html , > and 2.)? Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying this > behavior is, and its predominance, in the future.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 16:39:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 16:39:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net><4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net><0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> The Marcus-Bob row passed 'tiresome' by dozens of back & forths, and proceeded on to the interminable phase before I ultimately weighed in. I b/c'd them both and asked them politely to cease & desist. One did break-off (he's still here); the other didn't (he's gone). Note: I didn't ban Marcus for life. It was more like 5 minutes in penalty box for slashing. But he got mad and left the arena. So be it. The affected 'dialect' thread was similarly resolved by a backchannel injunction. I'm not aware of Bob being a bully. And no one has backchanneled me to say Bob has.mistreated him/her. But I'm as tired as the next person of getting hit with his 'Wilshberia' cudgel. Maybe, Bob, you could put 'W' in the subject line to show us it's a post we can skip/delete. In an ideal world (a listserv being nothing like an ideal world) this would be the pattern of argument... 1) Make your point [No concurrance.] 2) Clarify / elaborate your point. [Still no agreement or common ground.] 3)Make one more attempt to persuade. [Faced with obdurate disagreement.] 4) Break off politely: Agree to disagree as we say. Jim Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:44 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought On 5/3/2011 2:27 PM, Mike Snider wrote: Just to be clear, I didn't mean that I thought you should have been banned - rather that, as far as I could see (and of course I couldn't see any backchannel weirdness), the fault was no more Marcus's than yours. You were both very tiresome. Glad to hear you seem not to be in favor of banning, Mike. I can't remember any details but it may have been that Marcus and I were both warned, and I was able to control myself for longer than he was. You have to remember that we were arguing about the proper definition of poetry, and there are poets for whom that is important. He invited me to be a Facebook friend, by the way. Accepting the invitation, I wrote him a short note about what he was up to now. No response. He's one of the few New-Poetry people I've actually met in person. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue May 3 16:38:08 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.2020102@nut-n-but.net> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n-but.net> <0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <106512.11333.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... arguing about the "proper" definition of poetry ... & i thought that i was immature ... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:44:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought On 5/3/2011 2:27 PM, Mike Snider wrote: Just to be clear, I didn't mean that I thought you should have been banned - rather that, as far as I could see (and of course I couldn't see any backchannel weirdness), the fault was no more Marcus's than yours. You were both very tiresome. > Glad to hear you seem not to be in favor of banning, Mike. I can't remember any details but it may have been that Marcus and I were both warned, and I was able to control myself for longer than he was. You have to remember that we were arguing about the proper definition of poetry, and there are poets for whom that is important. He invited me to be a Facebook friend, by the way. Accepting the invitation, I wrote him a short note about what he was up to now. No response. He's one of the few New-Poetry people I've actually met in person. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 3 16:43:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 22:43:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "a fact more of embarrassment than pride" ? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Amy, > > I've been on this list for 8 years, a fact more of embarrassment than > pride. My thoughts about poetry have changed, but my thoughts about Bob have > not. He talks too much and says too little. If a study were made, my guess > is he's the author or the subject of 65% of the posts on this list. Maybe it > seems like a kind of fame. He doesn't know or care any more about philosophy > than is necessary to try to bring attention to his type of poetry--ie, to > himself. Try to quench your thirst for knowledge, you'll find you're > drinking from a mud puddle. With all these posts, all these "ideas", he is > claiming his right to exist. It's like being stuck in a crowded elevator > with Danny Devito on methamphetamines. One hopes the firemen will arrive. > > But, then, we all know what it is to have an id -- or whatever you call the > monster that lives between your ears. > > The best defense, I think, is to calm the monster, get it to lie down if > you can, and then have interesting conversations-- ignore the din outside > too-- it's just a man after all on a skinny nag with a basin on his head and > a broken lance in his hand, a-clattering from London to Jerusalem, singing, > shouting, prating from his cradle to his grave in praise of folly. > > yours... > > > >> Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) >> From: amy king >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought >> >> >> I only hope that two effects might transpire:? 1.)? Perhaps what I've said >> will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the future >> via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html , >> and 2.)? Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying this >> behavior is, and its predominance, in the future.? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 18:52:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 17:52:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.20 20102@nut-n-but.net><4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n -but.net><0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org><4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC0872D.1090609@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 3:39 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > The Marcus-Bob row passed 'tiresome' by dozens of back & forths, and > proceeded on to the interminable phase before I ultimately weighed in. > I b/c'd them both and asked them politely to cease & desist. One did > break-off (he's still here); the other didn't (he's gone). Note: I > didn't ban Marcus for life. It was more like 5 minutes in penalty box > for slashing. But he got mad and left the arena. So be it. > The affected 'dialect' thread was similarly resolved by a backchannel > injunction. > I'm not aware of Bob being a bully. And no one has backchanneled me to > say Bob has.mistreated him/her. Glad to know that. > But I'm as tired as the next person of getting hit with his > 'Wilshberia' cudgel. Maybe, Bob, you could put 'W' in the subject line > to show us it's a post we can skip/delete. More than Fair. > In an ideal world (a listserv being nothing like an ideal world) this > would be the pattern of argument... > 1) Make your point > [No concurrance.] > 2) Clarify / elaborate your point. How about--"without assailing the morality of someone arguing against one?" > [Still no agreement or common ground.] > 3)Make one more attempt to persuade. > [Faced with obdurate disagreement.] > 4) Break off politely: Agree to disagree as we say. I'll try. I have to say that I do think things worth arguing about, like the definition of poetry, require more than four sound-bites. --Bob, with thanks for what seems to me fair & thoughtful list-custodianship in this matter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:49:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:49:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: <8CDD7E4F352E2D0-1444-22F14@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E4F352E2D0-1444-22F14@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Like-minded individuals--now there's an oxymoron! "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:08 PM, wrote: > Quoting from their HOME page, it states "Think Together with like > minded individuals in our Forums..." > > Gook luck with that. > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:35 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online > > Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got > two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. > > --Bob > > http://www.muttonline.com/members/ > * * > ** > * * > *MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over the > country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. * > * * > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 18:55:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 17:55:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <106512.11333.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.20 20102@nut-n-but.net><4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n -but.net><0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org><4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> <106512.11333.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC087C7.9090308@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 3:38 PM, stephen russell wrote: > ... arguing about the "proper" definition of poetry ... & i thought > that i was immature ... Deft insight, Stephen. But, hey, if you provided a basis for it, it would be even better. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 17:53:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:53:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Given the context, he must mean Freddy Laker. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Who's Freddy? Sorry if this seems inappropriate but I do have a headache > tonight. > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 5/3/2011 4:22 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >>> dear truthy bob >>> you marlboro marathon man >>> you glen glen tah >>> You 80% malcontent under the dog bent >>> substantial unamorphous studied thesaurus >>> _you Tarzan_ >>> you rhetorics capitalizer >>> advancer beholder >>> you percussion fighter >>> repercussed miter >>> you unharmful campaigner >>> you epitaph welder >>> spectrograph solder navigator/alligator green ballad maker >>> >>> Only Youuuu, you make the world shine through, You solar panel, you taxi >>> driver, sea android, you tabloid, >>> >>> aghast I am >>> Yours >>> >> . >> Whaddya mean, "unharmful campaigner?!?!?" Otherwise, I am pleased to have >> inspired your poem. >> >> Hey, whose side do you think our buddy Freddy would be on, Amy's or mine? >> >> >> --Bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue May 3 17:55:50 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:55:50 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E4F352E2D0-1444-22F14@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: They are each mostly unique, I'm sure... c On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Like-minded individuals--now there's an oxymoron! > > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:08 PM, wrote: > >> Quoting from their HOME page, it states "Think Together with like >> minded individuals in our Forums..." >> >> Gook luck with that. >> >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:35 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online >> >> Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got >> two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. >> >> --Bob >> >> http://www.muttonline.com/members/ >> * * >> ** >> * * >> *MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over >> the country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. >> * >> * * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 19:02:08 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 18:02:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4D BECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>< 4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC08970.40300@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 3:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Who's Freddy? Sorry if this seems inappropriate but I do have a > headache tonight. > Sorry about your headache, Anny. Still . . . Hint: think about giving birth to a dancing star. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 18:04:03 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 17:04:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online In-Reply-To: References: <448856.16358.qm@web161612.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC0671A.2020208@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E4F352E2D0-1444-22F14@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Except for their minds. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > They are each mostly unique, I'm sure... > > c > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Like-minded individuals--now there's an oxymoron! >> >> >> "We aren't meaning that any more." >> --John Ashbery >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:08 PM, wrote: >> >>> Quoting from their HOME page, it states "Think Together with like >>> minded individuals in our Forums..." >>> >>> Gook luck with that. >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bob Grumman >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 4:35 pm >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Mutt Online >>> >>> Just to show that I'm Not Unimportant, I had to post this, which I got >>> two weeks ago but for some reason forgot to post to New-Poetry at once. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> http://www.muttonline.com/members/ >>> * * >>> ** >>> * * >>> *MUTT Online has been reviewing poet's and author's work from all over >>> the country and we have found that your ability to craft words is exemplary. >>> * >>> * * >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 19:43:54 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 18:43:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visitor Count In-Reply-To: <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DBEF5D3.20 20102@nut-n-but.net><4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net><4DC01F88.7070509@nut-n -but.net><0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org><4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC0933A.8000303@nut-n-but.net> Finnegan, I'm curious: are you able to determine how many unique visitors a day come to New-Poetry? A graph showing number of Grumman posts per day against number of visits per day should be illuminating. The National Poetry Month Gallery got 300 unique visits a day, I just learned, which is why I wondered about New-Poetry. I doubt that my blog gets as many as ten a day. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 19:52:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 18:52:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4D BECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>< 4DC01DC4.2000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 4:53 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Given the context, he must mean Freddy Laker. I had to look up Freddy Laker. Don't see the connection. Did he beat me to the antrocentricity/verosophy ratio? Or was he just another loathsome person who believed in free speech? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 18:58:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 17:58:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Visitor Count In-Reply-To: <4DC0933A.8000303@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBECDAE.1000202@nut-n-but.net> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DBEFA0A.7020504@nut-n-but.net> <0C650BE0-D30B-4CDB-AD0D-9BC92511B06D@mikesnider.org> <4DC06944.5070001@nut-n-but.net> <8CDD7E945DF8B97-1444-23CF5@webmail-d142.sysops.aol.com> <4DC0933A.8000303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Oy! "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Finnegan, I'm curious: are you able to determine how many unique visitors a > day come to New-Poetry? A graph showing number of Grumman posts per day > against number of visits per day should be illuminating. > > The National Poetry Month Gallery got 300 unique visits a day, I just > learned, which is why I wondered about New-Poetry. I doubt that my blog > gets as many as ten a day. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 19:00:10 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 18:00:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Not loathsome at all, B-bob. He delivered the goods. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/3/2011 4:53 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Given the context, he must mean Freddy Laker. > > > I had to look up Freddy Laker. Don't see the connection. Did he beat me > to the antrocentricity/verosophy ratio? Or was he just another loathsome > person who believed in free speech? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 3 18:59:52 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Apropos, an interesting poem ... Message-ID: <874547.97268.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> given today's "conversation" and the compulsive need to name people by their reading practices. w Written the year of my birth by William Dickey, "Parliamentary Procedure" ?--? http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse/117/5#20595020 ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 3 20:58:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 19:58:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><48 2482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 6:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Not loathsome at all, B-bob. He delivered the goods. Still don't get it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 3 20:19:04 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:19:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-but.net> <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Let's talk sometime, Bob. Maybe when you realize that there's more to life than "getting it." "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/3/2011 6:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > Not loathsome at all, B-bob. He delivered the goods. > > Still don't get it. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 3 22:51:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 22:51:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yale Working Group in Contemporary Poetics. Message-ID: <8CDD81D3C3024CD-3270-2B081@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> Though I've been aware of the group for a couple of year, this past Friday I finally attended a meeting of the Yale Working Group in Contemporary Poetics. http://wgcp.wordpress.com/ It's an informal group of students, teachers, community members who gather to discuss poetry/poetics focused on a particular poet's work. (Richard Deming and Nancy Kuhl seem to be the ringleaders/organizers.) The general m.o. of the group is two part: First the the group meets to discuss the poet's work or new book. Then a week or two later they reconvene joined the poet who is there to answer questions, to be interrogated (in a friendly way). This past week the subject was Susan Stewart's Red Rover. And she acquited herself very well before a roundtable of about 20 people, answering questions of all sorts related to her poetry and poetics. Granted Yale is a university that can afford this kind of thing more than the average institution, but I have to say there should be more events like this. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 06:47:10 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 05:47:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yale Working Group in Contemporary Poetics. In-Reply-To: <8CDD81D3C3024CD-3270-2B081@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD81D3C3024CD-3270-2B081@webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC12EAE.8030309@nut-n-but.net> > Granted Yale is a university that can afford this kind of thing more > than the average institution, but I have to say there should be more > events like this. > Finnegan . It'd be easy to do on the Internet but the interest doesn't seem to be there. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 06:51:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 05:51:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC09533.5010306@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net> On 5/3/2011 7:19 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Let's talk sometime, Bob. Maybe when you realize > that there's more to life than "getting it." I realize already that one can try to understand existence or do one's best mindlessly to enjoy it. But each has its appropriate time. It's ridiculous in a context where determining some truth is obviously involved, as here, to idle off into intellectual nihilism. For instance, I don't think you'd like your doctor to tell you you need an operation, then when you ask why, shrug and say, "I dunno," and if you complain, tell you to learn there's more to life than "getting it," or the equivalent. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 06:57:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 05:57:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Possible Interest to Submitters: In-Reply-To: <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC09533.50103 06@nut-n-but.net> <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC13109.1090108@nut-n-but.net> In case you didn't get a copy of this: Hi Fellow Writer, /Snail Mail Review/is a up-and-coming literary journal. The editors are now seeking submissions for the second issue. Submissions are open from now until June 30, 2011. We would love to receive a submission from you. We accept all genre?s in Poetry and Fiction. Attached is a flier with all the specific submission guidelines. There is *No Pay for *accepted submissions. Contributors will receive a complimentary copy as payment. *No online submissions are accepted*. Online submissions are only accepted from overseas. Feel free to redistribute this flier to other writers as you see fit. If you are interested in submitting, please send 3-5 poems of no more than 35 lines and/or 1-7 pages of fiction to: /Snail Mail Review/ c/o Kris Price 3000 Coffee Rd Chateau Apt #B6 Modesto, CA 95355 No online submissions. Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions at snailmailreview at gmail.com . Find us on Facebook by searching /Snail Mail Review/. Thank you, The Editors -- Best Regards, /Snail Mail Review/ /Kris Price/ /Christine Chesko/ /Founding Editors /--Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 4 09:26:34 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 09:26:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester University Poetry Conference Message-ID: <8CDD87605C39DDF-1714-16C3F@webmail-d143.sysops.aol.com> From: Kim Bridgford Subject: West Chester University Poetry Conference Hi, All, I'm writing to give you an overview of this year's West Chester University Poetry Conference: www.wcupoetrycenter.com. I hope you will consider attending! Robert Pinsky is the keynote speaker, and we're having a 90th birthday party for Richard Wilbur. Farai Chideya is moderating a panel on the new Anthology of Rap, and we're offering an interactive hip hop workshop with Michael Cirelli and Mahogany Browne. We also will have a panel on the centennial of Romare Bearden. In addition, we have workshops taught by poets such as Molly Peacock, Dana Gioia, Allison Joseph, Rafael Campo, and Terri Witek. Best, Kim Kim Bridgford Director, West Chester University Poetry Conference West Chester University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed May 4 10:13:28 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 09:13:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-but.net> <4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Those are false alternatives, Bob. Know what I mean? "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/3/2011 7:19 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Let's talk sometime, Bob. Maybe when you realize > that there's more to life than "getting it." > > I realize already that one can try to understand existence or do one's best > mindlessly to enjoy it. But each has its appropriate time. It's ridiculous > in a context where determining some truth is obviously involved, as here, to > idle off into intellectual nihilism. For instance, I don't think you'd like > your doctor to tell you you need an operation, then when you ask why, shrug > and say, "I dunno," and if you complain, tell you to learn there's more to > life than "getting it," or the equivalent. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 12:50:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 11:50:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC0A4C0.1000908@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 9:13 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Those are false alternatives, Bob. Know what I mean? I never know what you mean, Hal, because you're superior to meaning. But I do understand that--hey--there's a truth-seeking/mindless-nihilism ratio for each of us and mine's usually pretty high when I'm verosophizing. When I'm composing poetry, it's quite a bit lower. It's still greater than 1 then, however. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Wed May 4 11:45:59 2011 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 10:45:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] VALPARAISO FICTION REVIEW: New Journal and Call for Submissions Message-ID: <4DC12E670200006E0008C74F@gwdm1.valpo.edu> I am pleased to announce the launch of a new literary journal, Valparaiso Fiction Review, for which I will be serving as a co-editor alongside Jonathan Bull. This semi-annual online magazine will feature works of short fiction by new, emerging, and established authors. We are currently considering work for the debut issue of Valparaiso Fiction Review, scheduled for publication in the fall. I am honored that VFR will be published in association with Valparaiso University and its Department of English. I urge everyone to spread the word about this new venue for the publication of short fiction. Valparaiso Fiction Review is located at the following: http://scholar.valpo.edu/vfr/ -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Web Page: http://edwardbyrne.shutterfly.com/ Audio Chapbook: http://wschap4.wordpress.com/ Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne-tinted.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Co-Editor, Valparaiso Fiction Review: http://scholar.valpo.edu/vfr E-mail: vfr at valpo.edu Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Wed May 4 12:46:37 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 12:46:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] LVNGinTONGUES In-Reply-To: <4DC12E670200006E0008C74F@gwdm1.valpo.edu> Message-ID: <20110504164638.PSG5D.285440.root@hrndva-web10-z01> LVNGinTONGUES G. E. Schwartz available from: HANK's ORIGINAL LOOSE GRAVEL PRESS PO BOX 453 Arroyo Grande, CA 93421 $7.00 FORTITUDE through an act of wanton obigation abandoning great silence prolonging hell as the breeze grew to a noonday witch as others play along-- that's all the young ever need -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 4 12:50:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 12:50:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week - Robert Thomas In-Reply-To: <20110503213011.31798@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20110503213011.31798@web003.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <8CDD8927BA6B598-1050-1B240@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: PoemoftheWeek at poemoftheweek.org To: andrewmcfadyenketchum at poemoftheweek.org Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 9:30 pm Subject: Poem of the Week - Robert Thomas Dear PoemoftheWeek Subscriber, This week PoemoftheWeek.org features "Variations of Love" from Robert Thomas's second collection of poetry, Dragging the Lake, as well as an interview with Boneshop Review, a review of the collection, and an author bio. I hope you enjoy. My best, Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, Founder & Editor Contact us at AndrewMcFadyenKetchum at PoemoftheWeek.org Donate to PoemoftheWeek.org at http://poemoftheweek.org/id294.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed May 4 15:35:24 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 14:35:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Truth-seeking and mindless nihilism are false alternatives, Bob. See what I mean? "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/4/2011 9:13 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Those are false alternatives, Bob. Know what I mean? > > > I never know what you mean, Hal, because you're superior to meaning. But I > do understand that--hey--there's a truth-seeking/mindless-nihilism ratio for > each of us and mine's usually pretty high when I'm verosophizing. When I'm > composing poetry, it's quite a bit lower. It's still greater than 1 then, > however. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed May 4 16:34:03 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:34:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: <4DC08970.40300@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <482482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC08970.40300@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah, It was a question of pronunciation, I call him Freedrich, cheers, Anny On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/3/2011 3:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Who's Freddy? Sorry if this seems inappropriate but I do have a headache >> tonight. >> >> > Sorry about your headache, Anny. Still . . . > > Hint: think about giving birth to a dancing star. > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 4 17:37:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 17:37:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fine Arts Works Center Provincetown Message-ID: <8CDD8BA9B8BD8DF-1F24-9D0B@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> I happened to be looking at the Summer Program, and I was taken aback by how many workshops they run in Provincetown during the summer.... http://www.fawc.org/summer/poetry_2011.php#bosselaar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 19:09:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 18:09:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 2:35 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Truth-seeking and mindless nihilism are false alternatives, Bob. > See what I mean? Get me in a formal debate, Hal, and I'll plead guilty to any false dichotomies I commit. This one is what I'd call a colloquial one, or maybe an ellipsis--meaning, "truth seeking and sufficient mindless nihilism to prevent truth from being found," to a verosopher but not to one trying to win an argument. It's like the statement, "a person is either black or white." Everyone knows what it means although everyone is also aware that in a small minority of cases it'll be very hard to decide which a person is. "A person is either black or white" really means "A person either has dark enough skin to be considered by most people to be black or he doesn't, in which case he is deemed to be white." Everyone is also aware that "everyone" really means "almost everyone" and that "black" and "white" don't mean "black" and "white." I just realized that what I've been writing, slightly changed, would make a good Arthur Vogelsang poem. What a name he has for a poet! If I have the German right. I would be amazed if he is not a favorite of yours, Hal. I was unfamiliar with his work until I got a copy of his /Expedition/ to review for /Small Press Review. /Very funny. He would take what I said and change the order, and add non sequiturs. Into it surrealize a smoking chimney some woman leans against with her tenses awry and nothing to do with Santa Claus except eye-color, although the latter has to do with chimneys (Santa Clause, not eye-color), if not compulsively since what's once every 365 or 366 nights a year? Am I what I am because I'm trying to desatirize his work or is he what he is because he is satirizing my verosophy. Which he would agree would be simple to do although he doesn't know me any more than he knows Santa Claus. Who has nothing to do with sentence structure. Which is nonetheless considered important in some circles. By everyone, which is not to say "everyone." In most circles. Repetition is important. Back to Me: It's simple. I asked Anny whose side Freddy would be on, mine or Amy's. The extremely strong implication of that is that Freddy could be expected to be on one side or the other--if we ignore, as we do colloquially (see my preceding paragraph), the possibility that he will be neutral, and my Freddy would never be neutral. Hence, your saying Freddy Laker was the Freddy I meant indicates that you thought Freddy Laker could be expected to be on one side or the other. But you won't say what it was about him that would cause him to side with either Amy or me. Sure, you could be having fun with the idea of Freddy Laker's being on Amy's side because they are both high fliers, or deliver the goods, etc. Or a knight would be on the side of a King. But I think that after you realized where I was (seeking a truth, remember, although a small one), you would out of considerateness have told me that you were a lot less than as serious about your Freddy as I about mine. True, I was using my Freddy in an attempt at a joke, but a joke in which what my Freddy was, had to be taken seriously for it to work. Right, I'm going on and on. I /am/ crazy, for I really think there are some out there who will find enjoy reading this as much as I'm enjoying writing it (due primarily to the two APC's I took a while ago for a headache, no doubt). But I'm also writing for myself. I'm going to use this as my blog entry for today. I thought for a moment I'd spare New-Poetry participants from having to see it, and just provide a link to my blog here. Then I thought, why? All someone this offends need do to get me to stop making such posts is to go public with a legitimate case against its value. That means more than denouncing it and/or monster-me. Defeated by a rational case, I would retire from the field. I would hope. Dumped on for being out of tune with Proper Understanding of What's Right, I fear, won't do the same. Since few here will take the time for that, maybe Finnegan can add a like and a don't like button to every post--or be even more insipid and just add a like button as Facebook does. Why is "egocentricity" a good word and "anthrocentricity" comically stupid a word? Whee. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 19:20:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 18:20:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><48 2482.28618.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC08970.40300@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC1DF4E.8080904@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 3:34 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Ah, It was a question of pronunciation, I call him Freedrich, > cheers, Anny Oh, Well, he and I are buddies, so I call him by his nickname, except when his sister is around. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Wed May 4 18:18:25 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 17:18:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought Message-ID: <10614120.1304547505745.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed May 4 18:48:58 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 17:48:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It's not merely a "colloquial" one that everyone understands when one term is pejorative and the other is, let's say, complimentary, to put it mildly. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/4/2011 2:35 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Truth-seeking and mindless nihilism are false alternatives, Bob. > See what I mean? > > Get me in a formal debate, Hal, and I'll plead guilty to any false > dichotomies I commit. This one is what I'd call a colloquial one, or maybe > an ellipsis--meaning, "truth seeking and sufficient mindless nihilism to > prevent truth from being found," to a verosopher but not to one trying to > win an argument. It's like the statement, "a person is either black or > white." Everyone knows what it means although everyone is also aware that > in a small minority of cases it'll be very hard to decide which a person > is. "A person is either black or white" really means "A person either has > dark enough skin to be considered by most people to be black or he doesn't, > in which case he is deemed to be white." Everyone is also aware that > "everyone" really means "almost everyone" and that "black" and "white" don't > mean "black" and "white." > > I just realized that what I've been writing, slightly changed, would make a > good Arthur Vogelsang poem. What a name he has for a poet! If I have the > German right. I would be amazed if he is not a favorite of yours, Hal. I > was unfamiliar with his work until I got a copy of his *Expedition* to > review for *Small Press Review. *Very funny. He would take what I said > and change the order, and add non sequiturs. Into it surrealize a smoking > chimney some woman leans against with her tenses awry and nothing to do with > Santa Claus except eye-color, although the latter has to do with chimneys > (Santa Clause, not eye-color), if not compulsively since what's once every > 365 or 366 nights a year? Am I what I am because I'm trying to desatirize > his work or is he what he is because he is satirizing my verosophy. Which > he would agree would be simple to do although he doesn't know me any more > than he knows Santa Claus. Who has nothing to do with sentence structure. > Which is nonetheless considered important in some circles. By everyone, > which is not to say "everyone." In most circles. Repetition is important. > > Back to Me: > > It's simple. I asked Anny whose side Freddy would be on, mine or Amy's. > The extremely strong implication of that is that Freddy could be expected to > be on one side or the other--if we ignore, as we do colloquially (see my > preceding paragraph), the possibility that he will be neutral, and my Freddy > would never be neutral. Hence, your saying Freddy Laker was the Freddy I > meant indicates that you thought Freddy Laker could be expected to be on one > side or the other. But you won't say what it was about him that would cause > him to side with either Amy or me. > > Sure, you could be having fun with the idea of Freddy Laker's being on > Amy's side because they are both high fliers, or deliver the goods, etc. Or > a knight would be on the side of a King. But I think that after you > realized where I was (seeking a truth, remember, although a small one), you > would out of considerateness have told me that you were a lot less than as > serious about your Freddy as I about mine. True, I was using my Freddy in > an attempt at a joke, but a joke in which what my Freddy was, had to be > taken seriously for it to work. > > Right, I'm going on and on. I *am* crazy, for I really think there are > some out there who will find enjoy reading this as much as I'm enjoying > writing it (due primarily to the two APC's I took a while ago for a > headache, no doubt). But I'm also writing for myself. I'm going to use > this as my blog entry for today. I thought for a moment I'd spare > New-Poetry participants from having to see it, and just provide a link to my > blog here. Then I thought, why? All someone this offends need do to get me > to stop making such posts is to go public with a legitimate case against its > value. That means more than denouncing it and/or monster-me. Defeated by a > rational case, I would retire from the field. I would hope. Dumped on for > being out of tune with Proper Understanding of What's Right, I fear, won't > do the same. > > Since few here will take the time for that, maybe Finnegan can add a like > and a don't like button to every post--or be even more insipid and just add > a like button as Facebook does. > > Why is "egocentricity" a good word and "anthrocentricity" comically stupid > a word? > > Whee. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Wed May 4 18:52:11 2011 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 18:52:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fine Arts Works Center Provincetown In-Reply-To: <8CDD8BA9B8BD8DF-1F24-9D0B@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD8BA9B8BD8DF-1F24-9D0B@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I've attended a number of their classes over the years; they are awesome! Suzanne On May 4, 2011 5:37 PM, wrote: > > I happened to be looking at the Summer Program, and I was taken aback by how many workshops they run in Provincetown during the summer.... > > http://www.fawc.org/summer/poetry_2011.php#bosselaar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 4 20:20:54 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 19:20:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 5:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > It's not merely a "colloquial" one that everyone understands > when one term is pejorative and the other is, let's say, complimentary, > to put it mildly. Well, all I can say, Hal, is that not everything despises truth-seeking. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed May 4 23:19:11 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 23:19:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> Even though there are poets who think of themselves as truth-seekers, what does truth-seeking have to do with poetry? What truths can possibly be said to apply all poetry, beyond "it's something some people make out of verbal or written language that some people, not necessarily the same people, enjoy experiencing"? And you, Bob, would deny even that, because you (at least sometimes) seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry. It's like Gertrude Stein's Oakland - there's no there there. www.mikesnider.org/formalblog On May 4, 2011, at 20:20, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/4/2011 5:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >> It's not merely a "colloquial" one that everyone understands >> when one term is pejorative and the other is, let's say, complimentary, >> to put it mildly. > > Well, all I can say, Hal, is that not everything despises truth-seeking. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 07:12:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 06:12:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net><4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 10:19 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Even though there are poets who think of themselves as truth-seekers, > what does truth-seeking have to do with poetry? What truths can > possibly be said to apply all poetry, beyond "it's something some > people make out of verbal or written language that some people, not > necessarily the same people, enjoy experiencing"? And you, Bob, would > deny even that, because you (at least sometimes) seem to deny any > necessary linguistic component to poetry. . It somewhat dismays me that you know so little of me as to think I could ever even "seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry," Mike. I have always said it must not only have words, but that its words must be at the core of its aesthetic meaning--albeit its visual components must be there with it, just short, ideally, of being as important. Most people in visual poetry circles deplore this attitude of mine. Geof Huth, although a good friend of mine, has about the tolerance of my position that you have of my position regarding W. I'm not sure what you mean by your question about what truth-seeking has to do with poetry. In my taxonomy, poetry is an art, and art has to do with the pursuit of beauty. So truth-seeking has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry, so is central to the study of poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, including determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from 1960 to 2000, what kind not. I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to each his own." --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 07:57:57 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 06:57:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net><4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4DC290C5.7040607@nut-n-but.net> On 5/4/2011 10:19 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > What truths can possibly be said to apply all poetry, beyond "it's > something some people make out of verbal or written language that some > people, not necessarily the same people, enjoy experiencing"? When this, by chance, came back up on my screen, Mike, I read the above question again and realized I had not explicitly answered it. I find it hard to believe anyone could ask such a question. If we put aside the infinite number of truths that apply to particular poems, we still have truths about the prehistoric origin of poetry; its neurophysiological effect on human beings; what kind of people make and/or like it; what if anything makes it different from the many other things that people make out of the written word; what its political importance is (while everything has some sort of political importance does not make poetry "political" and more than the fact that flowers can have a political importance makes them political); the way to teach it; how best to present it; what its economic importance is; whether or not it can have a therapeutic value; what effect it had on some composer; what constituents a successful poem has, or how it can be evaluated aesthetically; about how in the world it can inspire questions like yours--and at least a few more things. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Thu May 5 09:31:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 08:31:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The words "any effective poet must" and "poetry must" are meaningless. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/4/2011 10:19 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> Even though there are poets who think of themselves as truth-seekers, what >> does truth-seeking have to do with poetry? What truths can possibly be said >> to apply all poetry, beyond "it's something some people make out of verbal >> or written language that some people, not necessarily the same people, enjoy >> experiencing"? And you, Bob, would deny even that, because you (at least >> sometimes) seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry. >> > . > It somewhat dismays me that you know so little of me as to think I could > ever even "seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry," Mike. > I have always said it must not only have words, but that its words must be > at the core of its aesthetic meaning--albeit its visual components must be > there with it, just short, ideally, of being as important. Most people in > visual poetry circles deplore this attitude of mine. Geof Huth, although a > good friend of mine, has about the tolerance of my position that you have of > my position regarding W. > > I'm not sure what you mean by your question about what truth-seeking has to > do with poetry. In my taxonomy, poetry is an art, and art has to do with > the pursuit of beauty. So truth-seeking has nothing to do with it. On the > other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to > understand every aspect of existence, including poetry, so is central to the > study of poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple > interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, including > determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from 1960 to > 2000, what kind not. > > I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention > to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of > verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that > there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few > people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to > each his own." > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 09:38:23 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 06:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <929699.7114.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Speaking of Facebook & logging in to find 13 messages by "Bob," I am reminded of other alternate ego projects via a review, excerpted here: There?s a moment in Fight Club when its members gather around a television set to watch a news report of their latest bit of destruction. We see a skyscraper in flames, with a smiley face drawn out on it. These Fight Club members assert masculinity through sabotage, and then admire their own work, which smiles right back at them. That narcissism is played out throughout the film, especially when we learn that while Jack has been watching Tyler, he has really been admiring a masculine projection of himself. It?s narcissism as the new voyeurism. The new male asserts his ego by watching his own aggressive masculinity on display. still an asshole Fincher explores the distinction between Zuckerberg and Facebook, which would act as his online ego. Facebook is the most popular thing of its generation with 500 million users, while Zuckerberg is antisocial. Facebook adds friends while Zuckerberg makes enemies. His ego is inflated online, as he narcissistically watches his social network grow, but by the end of the movie, he?s still lonely Mark Zuckerberg; still considered an asshole by that same girl. --http://gabrielcatalano.com/2010/10/01/the-social-network-the-crisis-of-the-male-ego/ ? "Whee" indeed. Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman Back to Me: Right, I'm going on and on.? I am crazy, for I really think there are some out there who will find enjoy reading this as much as I'm enjoying writing it (due primarily to the two APC's I took a while ago for a headache, no doubt).? But I'm also writing for myself.? I'm going to use this as my blog entry for today.? I thought for a moment I'd spare New-Poetry participants from having to see it, and just provide a link to my blog here.? Then I thought, why?? All someone this offends need do to get me to stop making such posts is to go public with a legitimate case against its value.? That means more than denouncing it and/or monster-me.? Defeated by a rational case, I would retire from the field.? I would hope.? Dumped on for being out of tune with Proper Understanding of What's Right, I fear, won't do the same. Since few here will take the time for that, maybe Finnegan can add a like and a don't like button to every post--or be even more insipid and just add a like button as Facebook does. Why is "egocentricity" a good word and "anthrocentricity" comically stupid a word?? Whee. --Bob ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 09:44:43 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 06:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <447194.38429.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Recently-released truths, excerpted fromThe chattering chaps: When men out-talk the women: While they usually like to portray the female of the species as chatterboxes, researchers are claiming that in fact the reverse is true. Men, they say, are more garrulous than women, and far more likely to try to dominate a conversation. "Gender differences in talkativeness may reflect a tendency among some men to control the conversational floor when interacting with women." Off for more "truth seeking," Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman Well, all I can say, Hal, is that not everything despises truth-seeking. --Bob ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 10:00:04 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC290C5.7040607@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net><4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC290C5.7040607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <27239.3138.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Glad you asked, "Bob"!? More excerpts for your questions: The largest differences occurred between the female-only and the male-only groups, with the mixed-sex groups usually falling in the middle somewhere. The male-only groups were least satisfied with the whole process, and the female-only groups were most satisfied. The men in the male-only groups were less likely than the women in the women-only groups to change their initial positions after group discussion, as though the conversation among men was more of a debate with unsuccessful attempts to change one another's views. Women used more individually oriented pronouns (such as I, me, or my) in their computer-mediated conversations, suggesting they were using language to express personal views and relate their own experiences as they pertained to the discussion. There was little flaming or argumentativeness, though what coarse language appeared was generally confined to the male-only groups. ???On the Internet, there are innumerable male-only environments, though I know of none that actually prohibit women from joining, at least formally. They are male-only because of demographics and interests, and perhaps because their tone eventually drives women away. Groups formed specifically for women (so they could discuss women's concerns) are often populated mainly by men. Usenet's soc.women, for example, typically has more posts from men than women. --http://www.tissiv.com/womandmengroups.html ? From: "Bob" ?If we put aside the infinite number of narcissistic quests that apply to particular *listservs*, we still have truths about the prehistoric origin of *listservs*; they're neurophysiological effects on human beings; what kind of people try to dominate and what kind try to benefit from them; what if anything makes them different from the many other things that people make out of the written word; what they're political importance is (while everything has some sort of political importance does not make listserv discussions "political" and more than the fact that flowers can have a political importance makes them political); the way to force others towards your viewpoint; how best to present silence those who disagree; what its economic importance is; whether or not it can have a therapeutic value; what effect it had on some composer; what constituents a successful listserv is, or how it can be evaluated aesthetically; about how in the world it can inspire questions like yours--and at least a few more things. --Bob ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu May 5 10:16:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <477515.18009.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's the opening poem from "Sun." Fifth Prose Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card there are words of ours arranged in a row and on those words we have written house, we have written leave this house, we have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels through this house and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and something called the Human Poems though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts Still for many days the rain will continue to fall A voice will say Father I am burning Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from that wall, a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea words only taken limb by limb apart Because we are not alive not alone but ordinary extracts from the tablets Hassan the Arab and his wife who did vaulting and balancing Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome pitched among the spectators one night Lizzie Keys and Fred who fell from the trapeze into the sawdust and wasn't hurt at all and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer Little Sandy and Sam Sault Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz seeing swimmer and seeing rock statue then shadow and here in the lake first a razor then a fact -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 10:27:31 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:27:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Kirby, traveling bard Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/03flier.html?_r=1 -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 10:36:07 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:36:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gray Jacobik on the ode Message-ID: Don't miss sometime NewPo member Gray Jacobik's essay featured today on Poetry Daily. Here's what Gray has to say about the piece: "I am surprised and delighted that Poetry Daily picked up a critical article of mine for their Prose Feature of the Week, and I am thus emboldened enough to share it. This essay grew out of a seminar presentation I made last summer at The Frost Place and was published this spring in Poet Lore. I explore the evolution of the ode as a sub-genre focusing on poems by Neruda, Justice and Cording. It's my attempt to get a handle on some of the ways in which contemporary poets have made use of this tradition. All the best, Gray" http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_jacobik.php -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu May 5 10:37:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <21309.27721.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry, so is central to the study of poetics. Verosophy: Would Heidegger's Poetry Language & Thought be the ultimate or penultimate work of verosophy? Here's a few lines from "Sun," by Michael Palmer: Let go of me for I have died and am in a novel and was a lyric poet, certainly, who attracted crowds to mountaintops. For a nickel I will appear from this box. For a dollar I will have text with you and answer three questions ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 9:31:22 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post The words "any effective poet must" and "poetry must" are meaningless. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 5/4/2011 10:19 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >Even though there are poets who think of themselves as truth-seekers, what does >truth-seeking have to do with poetry? What truths can possibly be said to apply >all poetry, beyond "it's something some people make out of verbal or written >language that some people, not necessarily the same people, enjoy experiencing"? >And you, Bob, would deny even that, because you (at least sometimes) seem to >deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry. >> . It somewhat dismays me that you know so little of me as to think I could ever even "seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry," Mike. I have always said it must not only have words, but that its words must be at the core of its aesthetic meaning--albeit its visual components must be there with it, just short, ideally, of being as important. Most people in visual poetry circles deplore this attitude of mine. Geof Huth, although a good friend of mine, has about the tolerance of my position that you have of my position regarding W. > >I'm not sure what you mean by your question about what truth-seeking has to do >with poetry. In my taxonomy, poetry is an art, and art has to do with the >pursuit of beauty. So truth-seeking has nothing to do with it. On the other >hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand >every aspect of existence, including poetry, so is central to the study of >poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple interpretation of given >poems. And to literary history, including determining what kind of poetry was >certified by the academy from 1960 to 2000, what kind not. > >I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention to >such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of verosophy, >particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that there are two >cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few people are at ease >in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to each his own." > > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 10:40:00 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] O Broken Record -- Response to that fixed kind of "truth seeking" forced upon & demanded from us ... Message-ID: <598746.98970.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From poet Joan Retallack's "The Experimental Feminine" -- Our Western cultural image resembles a brain with a severed corpus callosum?each side functionally innocent of the other. Did an evil surgery occur while we were all asleep in one fairy tale or another? One side happily thinks everything is simple; the other side unhappily thinks everything is complex. In this chronic bifurcation, a potentially collaborative ?we? is missing the fact that complex dynamics aren?t monsters lurking in forests, threatening the simple pleasures of blue skies. They are the forest. They are the blue skies. They are our entire natural-cultural environment. ... It?s well known that scientists, in what has been a characteristically masculine enterprise, strategically ask only answerable questions. This is the reason for their great success, carefully defining the progress they make within parameters that tend to exclude the messiness of everyday life1. Speculation directed toward a frank unintelligible and complex unknown are a waste of time when one needs quantifiable results, not to say well-funded budgets. Despite this (luckily!) there are accidental discoveries, swerves of intuition that bring on shifts of perspective. But scientific logics of discovery aren?t going to help us make bridges between the complex nature of reality and the extreme sport of everyday life. Or the complex realisms of today?s experimental arts. ... What is unintelligible within the rules of intelligibility of an institution is either invisible or threatening. The masculine is most intelligible in its need to prove that it isn?t feminine?pliant, forgiving, polylogical. These are traits that have characterized the need to maintain immediate connections with others; they are also an aggressive affirmation of life principles whose beauty lies in independence from institutional necessities of abstraction, estrangement, tunnel vision, programmatic depression. ... Imagine the vital work of making our contemporary space-time livable, promising!, without the dynamic disequilibrium of our energetic binaries (even Buddhism would not exist without the starting point of ego vs. world) past and future, feminine and masculine. Or rather, what would attempts to act on stereotypically hypertrophied Feminine or Masculine alone look like? F: sentimental irresponsibility? M: rigid, defensive tribal and national identities, ungiving hierarchical principles, concentrated authority, reflexive aggression in a repetition compulsion that overrides desires for peace? ... But this may be a fate not worse than the memento mori of the progeny of Aristotelian logic which remain eternally fixed in delusions of universal absolutes and therefore empty of useful meaning. To wit, Wittgenstein?s remark, ?But in fact all propositions of logic say the same thing, to wit nothing.? ... What?s the difference between the unintelligible world of the Feminine and the knowable ideal of the Masculine? Counter to common wisdom, I want to assert that one (F) is a challenge; the other (M), a mystique. To the extent that the Feminine is forced into service as consolation for the loss of meaning within the emptiness of logics of ?world reason,? the energy of a productively conversational M-F is lost to culture. ... This means that its openness to its inability to conclude, its refusal to know, rather than to sense, suspect, consider, theorize, contemplate, hypothesize, conjecture, wager?.forms it as an experience of being in the world where uncertain and unpredictable life principles (in contrast to prescriptive rules) always exceed the scope of logical inference or imagination. This is the moving principle of the essay which is distinctly feminine in its violations of masculine orthodoxy, the rule-bound ?law of the fathers? that some feminist theorists have unfortunately mistaken as the only principles we have. ... This is finally the problem we have with all ambiguous figures?from profile/vase/profile to homosexuals (in Spanish, los ambiguos), mongrels, of every kind.? We want clear and coherent, clean and well-lit stories. Perhaps sometimes, as Page du Bois puts it in her discussion of Euripides? questioning of the motive of the story, to stop pain. ... Gertrude Stein, a mater of ambiguities, had a life-long preoccupation with the problem of description. She had no interest in fixing her poetic gaze. Like the Cubists, Gestalt psychologists, (and, for that matter, biologists) she found life/art principles in motility. It is the first characteristic of the form of life that is her writing. Her implicit theory of description is not one of pointed linguistic skewer, but of fluidly dynamic perceptual field. --http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/vol_3_no_1/inconference/retallackexperfem.html ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 10:42:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:42:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <21309.27721.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On the other, other hand, I would prefer the term "truth-seeking" to "verosophy" any day. If we must have a term. But I'm conventional that way. On 5/5/11 9:37 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: > On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu May 5 10:41:55 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Kirby, traveling bard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <137690.33684.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Kirby may be the best comic poet in English. His wife, Barbara Hamby, may be the best comic poet in the South. Or in Florida. They're a good combo. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:27:31 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] David Kirby, traveling bard David Kirby, traveling bard http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/03flier.html?_r=1 -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 10:50:09 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:50:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And just one more language note, since we are poets and poetry readers. . . . Unlike many academics, bureaucrats, or military officials, I don't think it's necessary to invent pompous, unpronounceable and superfluous synonyms for simple terms that already exist. At best it's comic relief. At worst, well, see George Orwell. . . . About the only one of good old Bob's prolific stream of coinages that strikes me as worth keeping is "burstnorm." That actually does improve on the other available words, seems to me, and has the advantage of simplicity and poetic power. But, as the "W****beria* term suggests, simplicity itself is no guarantee that a new term actually *means* anything of significance. Still not entering this discussion at any level but the matter of diction, I remain, Yr. Obt. Svt. On 5/5/11 9:42 AM, "David Graham" wrote: > On the other, other hand, I would prefer the term "truth-seeking" to > "verosophy" any day. If we must have a term. But I'm conventional that way. > > > On 5/5/11 9:37 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: > >> On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 12:01:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:01:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC2C9C8.20101@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 9:42 AM, David Graham wrote: > On the other, other hand, I would prefer the term "truth-seeking" to > "verosophy" any day. If we must have a term. But I'm conventional > that way. > It's "serious truth-seeking," not "truth-seeking." "Verosophy" is a term that probably only those concerned with all the serious forms of truth-seeking would need, but I think they would find it handy. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 12:10:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:10:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <929699.7114.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but. net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <929699.7114.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC2CBDA.9020408@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 8:38 AM, amy king wrote: > Speaking of Facebook & logging in to find 13 messages by "Bob," I am > reminded of other alternate ego projects via a review, excerpted here: . Is it possible for someone to disagree with you on matters you consider important and not be on an ego-trip, Amy? Is it possible for someone to more often than others believe he has things of interest to share with others (however foolishly), so posts more than others without an intent to dominate? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 12:19:34 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:19:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 9:50 AM, David Graham wrote: > And just one more language note, since we are poets and poetry > readers. . . . > > Unlike many academics, bureaucrats, or military officials, I don't > think it's necessary to invent pompous, unpronounceable and > superfluous synonyms for simple terms that already exist. Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" It's certain pronounceable. I wouldn't call it pompous, but I realize that many people consider long words to be that. If it's superfluous, what simpler word in English does it attempt to take the place of? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 11:34:40 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 08:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC2CBDA.9020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net><207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447 .97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC12F94.7010003@nut-n-but.net><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-but. net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <929699.7114.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC2CBDA.9020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <731326.30514.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> There was no disagreement, "Bob."? Just you going about business-as-usual, and then a note about what your business-as-usual reminds me of!? No problem, though. I can understand where the mix-up came from, since I didn't affirm your need to boast about how you don't have to care what others think, complete with a challenge to how it's others responsibility to reign your trips in -- it must be hard to keep up, so please let me remind you: "Bob" wrote: Back to Me: Right, I'm going on and on.? I am crazy, for I really think there are some out there who will find enjoy reading this as much as I'm enjoying writing it (due primarily to the two APC's I took a while ago for a headache, no doubt).? But I'm also writing for myself.? I'm going to use this as my blog entry for today.? I thought for a moment I'd spare New-Poetry participants from having to see it, and just provide a link to my blog here.? Then I thought, why?? All someone this offends need do to get me to stop making such posts is to go public with a legitimate case against its value.? That means more than denouncing it and/or monster-me.? Defeated by a rational case, I would retire from the field.? I would hope.? Dumped on for being out of tune with Proper Understanding of What's Right, I fear, won't do the same. Since few here will take the time for that, maybe Finnegan can add a like and a don't like button to every post--or be even more insipid and just add a like button as Facebook does. Why is "egocentricity" a good word and "anthrocentricity" comically stupid a word?? Whee. --Bob I replied: Speaking of Facebook & logging in to find 13 messages by "Bob," I am reminded of other alternate ego projects via a review, excerpted here: There?s a moment in Fight Club when its members gather around a television set to watch a news report of their latest bit of destruction. We see a skyscraper in flames, with a smiley face drawn out on it. These Fight Club members assert masculinity through sabotage, and then admire their own work, which smiles right back at them. That narcissism is played out throughout the film, especially when we learn that while Jack has been watching Tyler, he has really been admiring a masculine projection of himself. It?s narcissism as the new voyeurism. The new male asserts his ego by watching his own aggressive masculinity on display. still an asshole Fincher explores the distinction between Zuckerberg and Facebook, which would act as his online ego. Facebook is the most popular thing of its generation with 500 million users, while Zuckerberg is antisocial. Facebook adds friends while Zuckerberg makes enemies. His ego is inflated online, as he narcissistically watches his social network grow, but by the end of the movie, he?s still lonely Mark Zuckerberg; still considered an asshole by that same girl. --http://gabrielcatalano.com/2010/10/01/the-social-network-the-crisis-of-the-male-ego/ ? "Whee" indeed. Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman. Is it possible for someone to disagree with you on matters you consider important and not be on an ego-trip, Amy?? Is it possible for someone to more often than others believe he has things of interest to share with others (however foolishly), so posts more than others without an intent to dominate?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 11:40:26 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 08:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <604394.50933.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" A guess, "Bob" (& I didn't even take any pills!) -- M: rigid, defensive tribal and national identities, ungiving hierarchical principles, concentrated authority, reflexive aggression in a repetition compulsion that overrides desires for peace ... But this may be a fate not worse than the memento mori of the progeny of Aristotelian logic which remain eternally fixed in delusions of universal absolutes and therefore empty of useful meaning. To wit, Wittgenstein?s remark, ?But in fact all propositions of logic say the same thing, to wit nothing... --http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/vol_3_no_1/inconference/retallackexperfem.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 5 11:57:04 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <477515.18009.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <477515.18009.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602@louisiana.edu> Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu May 5 13:41:01 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:41:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: www.mikesnider.org On May 5, 2011, at 7:12, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/4/2011 10:19 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> Even though there are poets who think of themselves as truth-seekers, what does truth-seeking have to do with poetry? What truths can possibly be said to apply all poetry, beyond "it's something some people make out of verbal or written language that some people, not necessarily the same people, enjoy experiencing"? And you, Bob, would deny even that, because you (at least sometimes) seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry. > . > It somewhat dismays me that you know so little of me as to think I could ever even "seem to deny any necessary linguistic component to poetry," Mike. I have always said it must not only have words, but that its words must be at the core of its aesthetic meaning--albeit its visual components must be there with it, just short, ideally, of being as important. Most people in visual poetry circles deplore this attitude of mine. Geof Huth, although a good friend of mine, has about the tolerance of my position that you have of my position regarding W. > > I'm not sure what you mean by your question about what truth-seeking has to do with poetry. In my taxonomy, poetry is an art, and art has to do with the pursuit of beauty. So truth-seeking has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry, so is central to the study of poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, including determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from 1960 to 2000, what kind not. > > I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to each his own." > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 15:16:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 14:16:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <21309.27721.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net><820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org><4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> <21309.27721.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC2F77D.2070803@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 9:37 AM, stephen russell wrote: > On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or > verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including > poetry, so is central to the study of poetics. By which I mean not the verosophy of any one individual, but the endeavor as a whole pursued by many. > > Verosophy: > Would Heidegger's Poetry Language & Thought be the ultimate or > penultimate work of verosophy? . I've only read about Heidigger's work, so don't know the book you mention. Based on what I know, I would doubt it. I don't know enough to rate all the world's works of verosophy, but would think Newton's /Principia/ would be a good example of verosophy at its best. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu May 5 14:32:25 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:32:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> > On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry Lemme know how that works out for you. > , so is central to the study of poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, including determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from 1960 to 2000, what kind not. > > I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to each his own." Bob, if I misunderstood you, and your posting of mathematical games a while ago was not intended to show a kind of poem, then I apologize. But literary criticism is journalism, not science, and its primary interest is as either a history of literary taste or as a guide to writing we might like because we've liked other things some particular critic has liked. It can also help us to read unfamiliar poetry with less imperfect assumptions than we might otherwise have had about how to read that poetry, but neither the criticism nor the taste have much of anything to do with truth. And, for most of their history, neither literature nor literary criticism had much of anything to do with the academy. For that matter, I think it's a safe bet that the poetry of our time which people are buying and reading at the turn of the next century won't be chosen because Harold Bloom or Helen Vendler or Stephen Burt or Annie Finch said it was good - although I think Finch is a more likely guide than the other 3 because she's such a good poet. Come to think of it, Burt's pretty good, too. From halvard at gmail.com Thu May 5 14:37:23 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net> <4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net> <820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org> <4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-but.net> <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: I'll wish B-bob well with his serious endeavor too, and hope he reports back soon. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > > > On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or > verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry > > > Lemme know how that works out for you. > > > > > > , so is central to the study of poetics. And to literary criticism, > including simple interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, > including determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from > 1960 to 2000, what kind not. > > > > I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal > attention to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the > value of verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a > fact that there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and > that few people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the > motto, "to each his own." > > Bob, if I misunderstood you, and your posting of mathematical games a while > ago was not intended to show a kind of poem, then I apologize. > > > But literary criticism is journalism, not science, and its primary interest > is as either a history of literary taste or as a guide to writing we might > like because we've liked other things some particular critic has liked. It > can also help us to read unfamiliar poetry with less imperfect assumptions > than we might otherwise have had about how to read that poetry, but neither > the criticism nor the taste have much of anything to do with truth. And, for > most of their history, neither literature nor literary criticism had much of > anything to do with the academy. For that matter, I think it's a safe bet > that the poetry of our time which people are buying and reading at the turn > of the next century won't be chosen because Harold Bloom or Helen Vendler or > Stephen Burt or Annie Finch said it was good - although I think Finch is a > more likely guide than the other 3 because she's such a good poet. Come to > think of it, Burt's pretty good, too. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 15:12:30 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:12:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> > > Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" Oh, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I suppose if forced to supply a term for "infraverbal" I'd just go with "misspelled." Interesting to think of words as having insides & outsides, though. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> > > Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" It's certain pronounceable. I wouldn't call it pompous, but I realize that many people consider long words to be that. If it's superfluous, what simpler word in English does it attempt to take the place of? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 16:38:42 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 15:38:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post In-Reply-To: <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net><4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net><820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org><4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-b ut.net> <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4DC30AD2.4030702@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 1:32 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> On the other hand, the ultimate aim of serious truth-seeking, or verosophy, is to understand every aspect of existence, including poetry > > Lemme know how that works out for you. > > > > >> , so is central to the study of poetics. And to literary criticism, including simple interpretation of given poems. And to literary history, including determining what kind of poetry was certified by the academy from 1960 to 2000, what kind not. >> >> I contend that any effective poet must devote at least sub-verbal attention to such things. It would be nice if all poets recognized the value of verosophy, particularly literary criticism, but unlikely. It's a fact that there are two cultures, science and art, as C. P. Snow stated, and that few people are at ease in both. Alas, too many of them reject the motto, "to each his own." > Bob, if I misunderstood you, and your posting of mathematical games a while ago was not intended to show a kind of poem, then I apologize. I don't recall posting any mathematical games, Mike, though I did post and/or give a link to some mathematical poems. I asked you to tell me why they were not poems. You didn't. They had words in them so certainly were not "non-linguistic." > > But literary criticism is journalism, not science, and its primary interest is as either a history of literary taste or as a guide to writing we might like because we've liked other things some particular critic has liked. It can also help us to read unfamiliar poetry with less imperfect assumptions than we might otherwise have had about how to read that poetry, but neither the criticism nor the taste have much of anything to do with truth. And, for most of their history, neither literature nor literary criticism had much of anything to do with the academy. For that matter, I think it's a safe bet that the poetry of our time which people are buying and reading at the turn of the next century won't be chosen because Harold Bloom or Helen Vendler or Stephen Burt or Annie Finch said it was good - although I think Finch is a more likely guide than the other 3 because she's such a good poet. Come to think of it, Burt's pretty good, too. Literary criticism is neither journalism nor science. It's an attempt to understand something, the way another kind of verosophy but not science, Political science is an attempt to understand governments. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 16:51:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 15:51:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DC30DE9.4000607@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 2:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> >> >> Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to >> indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more >> aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" > > > Oh, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I suppose if forced to > supply a term for "infraverbal" I'd just go with "misspelled." > > Interesting to think of words as having insides & outsides, though. . One of my candidates, amusingly, was "orthographic poetry." I dumped that because "orthographic" was somebody else's coinage. (That's an attempt at a joke; it's a joke because I always try to use the best name for something I can find whether I coined it or someone else did.) "Misspelled poetry" clearly doesn't work. For one thing it does not indicate whether the misspelling is intended or not. Another is the "misspelledly" doesn't work very well (I don't think) as an adverb. Probably most important, there are many examples of infraverbal poems that have much more going on inside them than what most people would think of as misspellings--a letter on its side, for instance. Actually, some infraverbal words are correctly spelled. "m/is/spell/in/g," for instance--which I just made up and is certainly not much of an infraverbal poem but /is/ one. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 16:58:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 15:58:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <604394.50933.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> <604394.50933.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC30F5E.2040301@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 10:40 AM, amy king wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" > > > A guess, "Bob" (& I didn't even take any pills!) -- > > M: rigid, defensive tribal and national identities, ungiving > hierarchical principles, concentrated authority, reflexive aggression > in a repetition compulsion that overrides desires for peace ... Thanks, Amy. It's good for my morale to know you can't find anything of consequence wrong with my term. > > But this may be a fate not worse than the memento mori of the progeny > of Aristotelian logic which remain eternally fixed in delusions of > universal absolutes and therefore empty of useful meaning. To wit, > Wittgenstein?s remark, ?But in fact all propositions of logic say the > same thing, to wit nothing... Spoken like a true absolutist. Nothing to do with me, though, for I believe in maxilutism, the belief that while no absolutes exist (except in logic and mathematics, I now realize), many maxilutes, or understandings close enough to absolutely true to be treated as absolutes, do exist. > > --http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/vol_3_no_1/inconference/retallackexperfem.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu May 5 15:54:53 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:54:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <4DC30DE9.4000607@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> <4DC30DE9.4000607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Gotta love your zest and wit, B-bob. Here's something just for you. It's a quotation from Jim Paul that David Shields uses (it's #385 in case you're looking for it) in *Reality Hunger:* *A Manifesto. * * * "The roominess of the term *nonfiction*: an entire dresser labeled *nonsocks*." "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/5/2011 2:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to indicate > poetry in which what happens inside words is of more aesthetic importance > than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" > > > > Oh, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I suppose if forced to supply a > term for "infraverbal" I'd just go with "misspelled." > > Interesting to think of words as having insides & outsides, though. > > . > One of my candidates, amusingly, was "orthographic poetry." I dumped that > because "orthographic" was somebody else's coinage. (That's an attempt at a > joke; it's a joke because I always try to use the best name for something I > can find whether I coined it or someone else did.) "Misspelled poetry" > clearly doesn't work. For one thing it does not indicate whether the > misspelling is intended or not. Another is the "misspelledly" doesn't work > very well (I don't think) as an adverb. Probably most important, there are > many examples of infraverbal poems that have much more going on inside them > than what most people would think of as misspellings--a letter on its side, > for instance. Actually, some infraverbal words are correctly spelled. "m > *is*spell*in*g," for instance--which I just made up and is certainly not > much of an infraverbal poem but *is* one. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 5 15:57:15 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 14:57:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net> <74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DC3011B.1040808@louisiana.edu> I'd say that words have not only insides and outsides, but that they can be seen as having variant internal "organs" or sub-systems--not only the letters (to which I'd guess we have diverse responses--am I, Jerry, a "J" and "R" kind of guy?) but (more definitely) their phonemic and morphemic agglomerations. It's clear that there's lots of both conscious and (presumably) unconscious patterning-- not just "internal rhyme," but the kind of thing Steve McCaffery has talked about regarding "the curious nonphenomenal status of the paragram, that virtuality of any letter or phoneme [and consequently, as I said, morpheme--j.m.] to form semantic aggregates inaccessible to normal habits of readings." That's in his _Prior to Meaning_, p. 196f.) I think that most of us who like to play with small, hard-to-trace sound echoes are depending on lots of word-internal patterns that repeat (most often in some other pattern) in or among other words. Coupling "dramaturgy" with "regurgitated" or "teemed and gurgled" or "gummed and dreamy" might be something like what I'm talking about. (It's a lot more fun when it seems accidental, no doubt.) Cheers, Jerry On 5/5/2011 2:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> >> >> Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to >> indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more >> aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with "lighght?" > > > Oh, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I suppose if forced to > supply a term for "infraverbal" I'd just go with "misspelled." > > Interesting to think of words as having insides & outsides, though. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 5, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> >> >> Okay, David, tell me what's wrong with "infraverbal poetry" to >> indicate poetry in which what happens inside words is of more >> aesthetic importance than what happens outside them, as with >> "lighght?" It's certain pronounceable. I wouldn't call it pompous, >> but I realize that many people consider long words to be that. If >> it's superfluous, what simpler word in English does it attempt to >> take the place of? >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu May 5 15:59:47 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:59:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: Jerry & Stephen, Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- c > Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of > Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: > > > DEAREST READER > > He painted the mountain over and over again > from his place in the cave, agape > at the light, its absence, the mantled > skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- > like bird plucking berries from the fire > her hair alight and so on > lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. > Dearest reader there were trees > formed of wire, broad entryways > beneath balconies beneath spires > youthful head come to rest in meadow > beside bend in gravel road, still > body of milky liquid > her hair alight and so on > successive halls, flowered carpets and doors > or the photograph of nothing but pigeons > and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. > > > On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > > the opening poem from "Sun." > > > > Fifth Prose > > > > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > > leave this house, we > > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > > through this house > > > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > > something called the Human Poems > > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > > A voice will say Father I am burning > > > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > > that wall, > > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > > > words only > > taken limb by limb apart > > > > Because we are not alive not alone > > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > > who did vaulting and balancing > > > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > > pitched among the spectators one night > > > > Lizzie Keys > > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > > > into the sawdust > > and wasn't hurt at all > > > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > > statue then shadow > > > > and here in the lake > > first a razor then a fact > >Message: 32 Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 16:01:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:01:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? Message-ID: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple days ago for me. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu May 5 16:13:28 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:13:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought Message-ID: Anny, I think what I was trying to say here, in summary, is that I really don't mind Bob or the New-Po list, but that there is too much of Bob in the New-Po list. He's like a special ingredient. Cumin, let's say. Now cumin in tartar is very good. But if the recipe is upset, and instead of two cups of ground beef and a tablespoon of cumin, there are two cups of cumin and a tablespoon of beef, then the tartar does not taste very good. If I were the chef, I would suggest we all go out for Thai. ....c > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 22:43:06 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought > > "a fact more of embarrassment than pride" > > ? > > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Crisman Cooley >wrote: > > > Amy, > > > > I've been on this list for 8 years, a fact more of embarrassment than > > pride. My thoughts about poetry have changed, but my thoughts about Bob > have > > not. He talks too much and says too little. If a study were made, my > guess > > is he's the author or the subject of 65% of the posts on this list. Maybe > it > > seems like a kind of fame. He doesn't know or care any more about > philosophy > > than is necessary to try to bring attention to his type of poetry--ie, to > > himself. Try to quench your thirst for knowledge, you'll find you're > > drinking from a mud puddle. With all these posts, all these "ideas", he > is > > claiming his right to exist. It's like being stuck in a crowded elevator > > with Danny Devito on methamphetamines. One hopes the firemen will arrive. > > > > But, then, we all know what it is to have an id -- or whatever you call > the > > monster that lives between your ears. > > > > The best defense, I think, is to calm the monster, get it to lie down if > > you can, and then have interesting conversations-- ignore the din outside > > too-- it's just a man after all on a skinny nag with a basin on his head > and > > a broken lance in his hand, a-clattering from London to Jerusalem, > singing, > > shouting, prating from his cradle to his grave in praise of folly. > > > > yours... > > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) > >> From: amy king > >> > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought > >> > >> > >> I only hope that two effects might transpire:? 1.)? Perhaps what I've > said > >> will eventually seep in and prevent you from total domination in the > future > >> via threats of the "Wilshberia" label or worse, this - > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2009-September/028472.html, > >> and 2.)? Hopefully I won't be the only one to call Bob on how annoying > this > >> behavior is, and its predominance, in the future.? > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu May 5 16:08:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:08:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: There's a sequence? "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:01 PM, wrote: > Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? > > Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple > days ago for me. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 17:28:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:28:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seeking truth & grace In-Reply-To: References: <4DC2CE16.7060100@nut-n-but.net><74A337BE-D9FC-42AB-A619-9F8E4DC528E4@ripon.edu><4DC30DE9.4000607@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC31662.40705@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 2:54 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Gotta love your zest and wit, B-bob. Here's something just > for you. It's a quotation from Jim Paul that David Shields > uses (it's #385 in case you're looking for it) in /Reality Hunger:/ > /A Manifesto. / > / > / > "The roominess of the term /nonfiction/: an entire dresser > labeled /nonsocks/." Amusing, yes. An effective criticism of the term, "non-fiction?" Of course not. Any librarian can tell you why. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 17:28:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:28:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC31683.8020905@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 3:01 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? > Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a > couple days ago for me. > Finnegan I've always had that problem on and off. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 5 17:34:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:34:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 3:13 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > > Anny, > I think what I was trying to say here, in summary, is that I really > don't mind Bob or the New-Po list, but that there is too much of Bob > in the New-Po list. He's like a special ingredient. . Most of the reason for that is that I am a responsible poster, which means that I reply to replies to my posts. To cut down on Bob posts, don't reply to him. I also, being self-centered, generally respond to posts about me, such as yours, Chrisman. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 16:43:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:43:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some reason. I need too. I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly relates) and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of nothing but pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the good kind. For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, I'm left in a state of entropy. Finnegan ----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Jerry & Stephen, Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- c Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact >Message: 32 Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 16:46:35 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:46:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDD97CA86439F9-BD4-1A1AE@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> For those of us not so expert in the non sequitur, there is. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? There's a sequence? "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:01 PM, wrote: Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple days ago for me. Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu May 5 16:51:50 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, I've always received Bob's posts late. But only Bob's. In fact, I usually get the responses to Bob's posts before I get Bob's original post. It's odd. But I've gotten used to it. Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. I haven't assigned any reason for it, though I'm sure it has something to do with his poetry. John ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple days ago for me. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 5 16:54:33 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 15:54:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> A great instance of finesse, I think--that it's actually "Dearest Reader," not "Dear Reader." The difference between the two, emotionally, seems profound to me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 3:43 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple > years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. > I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some > reason. I need too. > I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more > about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from > the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very > painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately > makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly relates) > and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of nothing but > pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the good kind. > For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some > intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out > of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem > doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, I'm > left in a state of entropy. > Finnegan > ----Original Message----- > From: Crisman Cooley > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > Jerry & Stephen, > > Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- > > c > > Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 > From: Jerry McGuire > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of > Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: > > > DEAREST READER > > He painted the mountain over and over again > from his place in the cave, agape > at the light, its absence, the mantled > skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- > like bird plucking berries from the fire > her hair alight and so on > lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. > Dearest reader there were trees > formed of wire, broad entryways > beneath balconies beneath spires > youthful head come to rest in meadow > beside bend in gravel road, still > body of milky liquid > her hair alight and so on > successive halls, flowered carpets and doors > or the photograph of nothing but pigeons > and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. > > > On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. > Here's > > the opening poem from "Sun." > > > > Fifth Prose > > > > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > > leave this house, we > > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > > through this house > > > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > > something called the Human Poems > > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > > A voice will say Father I am burning > > > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > > that wall, > > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > > > words only > > taken limb by limb apart > > > > Because we are not alive not alone > > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > > who did vaulting and balancing > > > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > > pitched among the spectators one night > > > > Lizzie Keys > > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > > > into the sawdust > > and wasn't hurt at all > > > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > > statue then shadow > > > > and here in the lake > > first a razor then a fact > >Message: 32 > > Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 > From: Jerry McGuire > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of > Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: > > > DEAREST READER > > He painted the mountain over and over again > from his place in the cave, agape > at the light, its absence, the mantled > skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- > like bird plucking berries from the fire > her hair alight and so on > lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. > Dearest reader there were trees > formed of wire, broad entryways > beneath balconies beneath spires > youthful head come to rest in meadow > beside bend in gravel road, still > body of milky liquid > her hair alight and so on > successive halls, flowered carpets and doors > or the photograph of nothing but pigeons > and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. > > > On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > > the opening poem from "Sun." > > > > Fifth Prose > > > > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > > leave this house, we > > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > > through this house > > > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > > something called the Human Poems > > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > > A voice will say Father I am burning > > > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > > that wall, > > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > > > words only > > taken limb by limb apart > > > > Because we are not alive not alone > > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > > who did vaulting and balancing > > > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > > pitched among the spectators one night > > > > Lizzie Keys > > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > > > into the sawdust > > and wasn't hurt at all > > > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > > statue then shadow > > > > and here in the lake > > first a razor then a fact > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 16:57:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:57:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDD97E1D64A9CA-BD4-1A3FF@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Curious too that I missed or elided the "-est" in "Dearest." Not sure if that's a tone or diction twist that I'm not picking up on. - ----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some reason. I need too. I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly relates) and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of nothing but pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the good kind. For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, I'm left in a state of entropy. Finnegan ----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Jerry & Stephen, Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- c Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact >Message: 32 Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 17:01:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:01:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDD9764BC65872-BD4-19561@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDD97EBA0180B3-BD4-1A53C@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Clearly an instance of "post-post partum". No doubt Bob is to blame. -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? James, I've always received Bob's posts late. But only Bob's. In fact, I usually get the responses to Bob's posts before I get Bob's original post. It's odd. But I've gotten used to it. Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. I haven't assigned any reason for it, though I'm sure it has something to do with his poetry. John From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple days ago for me. Finnegan _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 5 17:15:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:15:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> That "Dearest" must be doing something important. One would tend, I think, to read that expression either as a gesture toward intimacy or one of affectation. I'd prefer the former. The latter reading would somewhat deflating, by adding an aspect of tongue-in-cheek. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:54 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun A great instance of finesse, I think--that it's actually "Dearest Reader," not "Dear Reader." The difference between the two, emotionally, seems profound to me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 3:43 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some reason. I need too. I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly relates) and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of nothing but pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the good kind. For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, I'm left in a state of entropy. Finnegan ----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Jerry & Stephen, Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- c Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact >Message: 32 Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- rof. Jerry McGuire ept. of English niversity of Louisiana at Lafayette lm8047 at louisiana.edu 37-482-5478 _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 17:21:12 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <4DC30AD2.4030702@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DB55B32.3060007@nut-n-but.net> <207790.98049.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><10447.97928.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC183BA.3060808@nut-n-bu t.net><4DC1DCC4.1030403@nut-n-but.net><4DC1ED66.7010208@nut-n-but.net><820684F1-A14B-435C-B396-4C03F51A93D4@mikesnider.org><4DC28630.3030004@nut-n-b ut.net> <2B1C4194-3939-404C-A817-BA983E4517E7@mikesnider.org> <4DC30AD2.4030702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <291032.76766.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 17:32:49 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407645.33253.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The more I dig into the archives and the more he blasts the list, the truer your observations seem to be (or in "Bob's" book , the 'truthier').? I've deleted a lot of "Bob Grumman" posts in the past, but now that I'm actually looking, I'm getting a greater sense of the "project" he's going at, and it doesn't seem to be a very productive or entertaining one, though it certainly is bombastic.? It also seems to have 97.3% bearing on his sense of self.? He must have been in terrible despair the tiny two weeks he was banned.? ________________________________ From: Crisman Cooley He talks too much and says too little. If a study were made, my guess is he's the author or the subject of 65% of the posts on this list. Maybe it seems like a kind of fame.?He doesn't know or care any more about philosophy than is necessary to try to bring attention to his type of poetry--ie, to himself. Try to quench your thirst for knowledge, you'll find you're drinking from a mud puddle. With all these posts, all these "ideas", he is claiming his right to exist. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 5 17:45:44 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:45:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> The poem feels very Beckett-like to me in places. And the "Dearest" catches me in the middle of two or three ways of handling what I'm reading. As you say, on one hand intimacy, on another affectation. But there's a little more there for me, resident or resonant in those "and so on"s. Outside the contours of "Dearest" (and the "intimate" way of reading that itself splits--is it a writerly "intimate," which might or might not be affectation, or is it a personal "intimate," changing this into a kind of epistolary poem?), the poem's language feels like a series of desperate little flights, leading to "and so on" when they run out of energy or efficacy . . . or something. And so the "Dearest" might be read itself as a kind of desperate (doubled, mirrored, shadowed) effort to recoup from the evacuated psychology of "and so on" something like energy, efficacy, or even sincerity. Like other of Palmer's poems, it feels not so much like a play of words or ideas as of rhetorics. And none of this even takes into account the poem's weird positioning--"painting" the outside world from a place "in a cave" (which is followed by the Anglo-Saxon "agape," which in turn invokes the Greek ""). In other words, like "Fifth Prose," "Dearest" (to me) feels like it's playing a postmodern dance of rhetorics (which, of course, links the poem's attitudes to those of the Sophists) off against both a kind of Platonic idealization and a desire for real things. That's about the best I can do right now. I'm "grading" "student" "creative" "writing." Jerry On 5/5/2011 4:15 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > That "Dearest" must be doing something important. One would tend, I > think, to read that expression either as a gesture toward intimacy > or one of affectation. I'd prefer the former. The latter reading would > somewhat deflating, by adding an aspect of tongue-in-cheek. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:54 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > A great instance of finesse, I think--that it's actually "Dearest > Reader," not "Dear Reader." The difference between the two, > emotionally, seems profound to me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 3:43 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple >> years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. >> I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some >> reason. I need too. >> I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more >> about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from >> the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very >> painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately >> makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly >> relates) and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of >> nothing but pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the >> good kind. >> For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some >> intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out >> of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem >> doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, >> I'm left in a state of entropy. >> Finnegan >> ----Original Message----- >> From: Crisman Cooley >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> Jerry & Stephen, >> >> Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- >> >> c >> >> Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 >> From: Jerry McGuire > > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's >> another of >> Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: >> >> >> DEAREST READER >> >> He painted the mountain over and over again >> from his place in the cave, agape >> at the light, its absence, the mantled >> skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- >> like bird plucking berries from the fire >> her hair alight and so on >> lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. >> Dearest reader there were trees >> formed of wire, broad entryways >> beneath balconies beneath spires >> youthful head come to rest in meadow >> beside bend in gravel road, still >> body of milky liquid >> her hair alight and so on >> successive halls, flowered carpets and doors >> or the photograph of nothing but pigeons >> and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. >> >> >> On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: >> > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've >> just >> > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock >> > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's >> > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I >> > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. >> Here's >> > the opening poem from "Sun." >> > >> > Fifth Prose >> > >> > >> > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence >> > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card >> > there are words of ours arranged in a row >> > >> > and on those words we have written house, we have written >> > leave this house, we >> > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels >> > through this house >> > >> > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and >> > something called the Human Poems >> > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts >> > >> > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall >> > A voice will say Father I am burning >> > >> > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from >> > that wall, >> > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea >> > >> > words only >> > taken limb by limb apart >> > >> > Because we are not alive not alone >> > but ordinary extracts from the tablets >> > >> > Hassan the Arab and his wife >> > who did vaulting and balancing >> > >> > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome >> > pitched among the spectators one night >> > >> > Lizzie Keys >> > and Fred who fell from the trapeze >> > >> > into the sawdust >> > and wasn't hurt at all >> > >> > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer >> > Little Sandy and Sam Sault >> > >> > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red >> > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz >> > >> > seeing swimmer and seeing rock >> > statue then shadow >> > >> > and here in the lake >> > first a razor then a fact >> >Message: 32 >> >> Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 >> From: Jerry McGuire > > >> To: NewPoetry List > > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" >> >> Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of >> Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: >> >> >> DEAREST READER >> >> He painted the mountain over and over again >> from his place in the cave, agape >> at the light, its absence, the mantled >> skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- >> like bird plucking berries from the fire >> her hair alight and so on >> lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. >> Dearest reader there were trees >> formed of wire, broad entryways >> beneath balconies beneath spires >> youthful head come to rest in meadow >> beside bend in gravel road, still >> body of milky liquid >> her hair alight and so on >> successive halls, flowered carpets and doors >> or the photograph of nothing but pigeons >> and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. >> >> >> On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: >> > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just >> > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock >> > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's >> > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I >> > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's >> > the opening poem from "Sun." >> > >> > Fifth Prose >> > >> > >> > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence >> > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card >> > there are words of ours arranged in a row >> > >> > and on those words we have written house, we have written >> > leave this house, we >> > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels >> > through this house >> > >> > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and >> > something called the Human Poems >> > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts >> > >> > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall >> > A voice will say Father I am burning >> > >> > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from >> > that wall, >> > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea >> > >> > words only >> > taken limb by limb apart >> > >> > Because we are not alive not alone >> > but ordinary extracts from the tablets >> > >> > Hassan the Arab and his wife >> > who did vaulting and balancing >> > >> > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome >> > pitched among the spectators one night >> > >> > Lizzie Keys >> > and Fred who fell from the trapeze >> > >> > into the sawdust >> > and wasn't hurt at all >> > >> > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer >> > Little Sandy and Sam Sault >> > >> > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red >> > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz >> > >> > seeing swimmer and seeing rock >> > statue then shadow >> > >> > and here in the lake >> > first a razor then a fact >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 17:45:11 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)?? Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! Amy ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 18:00:21 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:00:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? In-Reply-To: <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <600AF4BB-9AEB-431F-93CF-1F20E1E9D6EC@ripon.edu> I'm supposed to be reviewing Martha Silano's new collection, *Little Office of the Immaculate Conception*, from Saturnalia Books. Haven't technically started writing the piece, but it's one of the books I most look forward to spending time with this summer. One sample poem pasted below. And for more links 'n' such, here is her blog: http://bluepositive.blogspot.com/ After Reading There Might Be an Infinite Number of Dimensions by Martha Silano I'm thinking today of how we hold it together, arrive on time with the bottle of Zinfandel, a six-pack of Scuttlebutt beer, how we cover our wrinkles with Visible Lift, shove the mashed winter squash into the baby's mouth, how we hold it all together despite clogged rain gutters, cracked transmissions, a new explanation for gravity's half-hearted hold. I'm wondering how we do it, comb the tangles from our hair, trim the unwieldy camellia, speak to packed crowds about weight loss or fractals. I'm wondering how we don't fall to our knees, knowing a hardened pea, lodged in the throat, can kill, knowing liquids are banned on all commercial flights. Leaves fall. The baby sucks her middle fingers. Meanwhile, the refrigerator acquires an unexplainable leak. Meanwhile, we call the plumber, open wide for the dental hygienist, check each month, with tentative circlings, our aging breasts. Somehow, each morning, the coffee gets made. Somehow, each evening, the crossing guard lifts fluorescent orange flag, and a child and her father cross the glistening street. "After Reading There Might Be an Infinite Number of Dimensions" by Martha Silano, from The Little Office of the Immaculate Conception. ? Saturnalia Books, 2011. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 5, 2011, at 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > > Amy > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 18:31:26 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:31:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Message-ID: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu May 5 18:32:35 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:32:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Thought Message-ID: Bob, this may be the most sensible thing I've ever heard you say. So I'm going to give it some space so others see it too. And I think it is the solution that will satisfy everyone involved, including you, since it will cut down on your work load. Of course it doesn't mean one should NEVER reply, just be judicious. * * * * * * * * * **************************************************************************** FOR A MORE INTERESTING NEW-POETRY LIST Please Read & Heed the Following Quote from Mr. Bob Grumman ********************* *** ***************************** * * * * * ************************************* * * "To cut down on Bob posts, * * don't reply to him." * ************************************* * * * * * ***************************************************************************** THANK YOU! ****************************************************************************** Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:34:06 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Thought On 5/5/2011 3:13 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > > Anny, > I think what I was trying to say here, in summary, is that I really > don't mind Bob or the New-Po list, but that there is too much of Bob > in the New-Po list. He's like a special ingredient. . Most of the reason for that is that I am a responsible poster, which means that I reply to replies to my posts. To cut down on Bob posts, don't reply to him. I also, being self-centered, generally respond to posts about me, such as yours, Chrisman. --Bob ************************************************************* PS. FOR THE SAME REASONS, PLEASE AVOID HIS COINAGES UNLESS YOU FIND ONE IRRESISTIBLY FASCINATING AND USEFUL. MANY THANKS! ************************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 5 19:15:06 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:15:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way ahead of me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to > pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new > poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much > appreciated! > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 19:34:54 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. ?But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." ?-- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 20:05:32 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Message-ID: <24739858.1304640332740.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu May 5 20:13:12 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:13:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I look forward to seeing the recommendations and can strongly second Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead_. Great stuff. c On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then > her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away > my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise > Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). > Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, > first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some > great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance > Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way > ahead of me. From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu May 5 20:12:23 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list. (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." -- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry? "Bob" has some project to get people to use >terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes >that people will find them worthwhile? > > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and >that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the >archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests. Feel >free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by >the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his >vision quest (below) -- I notice a few women in posting about other things >during that month who are no longer here. Wonder why. > > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE marcus at >designerglass.com > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >+ Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 20:35:27 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. ?I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." ? ?Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. ? To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html,? "Bob" responded with: No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html ? What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. ?My grandpa would be most comfy here.? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list.? (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. ?But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." ?-- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 20:39:21 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <105583.93127.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I've recently heard about the Hayes' book (didn't he just win an award?), and so that is in my cue now - thank you. ? I didn't realize there was anything new by Creeley! ?Very cool -? And I haven't heard of Lewis, so I'll explore. ?"...goofy-brilliant _Povel_" is equally intriguing. ?Thanks for these recs! Amy ________________________________ From: Chris Lott I look forward to seeing the recommendations and can strongly second Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead_. Great stuff. c On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then > her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away > my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise > Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). > Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, > first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some > great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance > Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way > ahead of me. _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 20:35:51 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:35:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than Message-ID: <20574074.1304642152091.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I've just published (at Junction Press) four wonderful books (none of them reviewed yet, hint hint). Rochelle Owens, Solitary Workwoman. Two linked long poems. Rochelle has been one of the important figures in the (what the hell) avant garde for over 50 years and an important voice for women. $21 Jerome Rothenberg, Retrievals: Uncollected & New Poems 1955-2010. The first book to trace his whole career, from early work in rhyme to a series of verse dramas. $21 Harry Polkinhorn, Demos Oneiron. Polkinhorn is probably best known for his visual poetry, but this is his tenth collection of poems in words. Lovely, haunting dream narratives. $14 Ferdowsi, The Teller of Tales: Stories for the Shahnameh, translated by Richard Jeffrey Newman. The earliest, most richly folkloric, accounts from the Persian verse epic. $14 Available from Junctionpress.com, or SPD. But directly from me (b/c)deduct 20%. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: May 5, 2011 8:13 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) > >I look forward to seeing the recommendations and can strongly second >Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead_. Great stuff. > >c > >On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: >> Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then >> her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away >> my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise >> Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). >> Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, >> first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some >> great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance >> Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way >> ahead of me. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 20:52:00 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:52:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Message-ID: <27904749.1304643121263.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 21:13:55 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <27904749.1304643121263.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <27904749.1304643121263.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <351130.44005.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mark, I'm doling out, as often and as frequently, the type of dogged posts I've seen here, as regularly as "Bob" posts. ?What you're noting is my recent posting mode of the past two days -- I've decided that since "Bob" can do it with everyone tolerating his range, why not my own? ?"Bob" can analyze people based on next to no information; I'm going with what "Bob" -- and of course yours now that you've got your bro's back -- offer up. ? No one complains when "Bob" pegs everyone or posts a hundred times a day; why should they complain when I post with similar verve and speculation (although I've kept mine isolated and specific)? ? Why's it bug you when I do it, but not your "Bob"? I only looked at one month today in the New Poetry archives. ?Shall I start digging up more evidence to back up my observations? ? I'm being truthy, after all! ?Can't anyone join in the versegoey game? ?Or is only "Bob" tolerated? Further, you've labeled people's lack of participation as "fear," not me. ?I have described, in depth now, a slice of the conditions that deter people from posting. ?Why would they when they have to wade through "Bob's" accusations of being Wilshebooblias and deal with his Versegoey rants, only to risk being labeled by him when they reveal their reading practices, or to have the reception that you offer up? ?I'm guessing you're insistence on their fear hinges on you enjoying the idea that you can make others fearful. ?How's that for being "truthy"? ?Did I make it to the 80% mark yet?? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I'm sorry you're angry at your grandfather. You seem to have learned a lot from him, if he was anything like your description of men . The behavior you globalize as masculine, the need to win in argument, to annihilate the opponent, to shut people up--wow, isn't that what you've been doing? How about threats to vent your anger if displeased, or psychoanalyzing and socioanalyzing your opponent in public? This is, among other things, a social environment, and normally "we" don't do those things in social environments. By the way, I didn't choose a moment to intervene, my computer did. I've had very little connectivity for the past several days. No telling how long the present email window will remain open. A new router and a new computer seem to be in the offing. On a more temperate note, and perhaps something to keep in mind: only about a dozen people (are there even that many) regularly contribute to this list. I doubt that most of the lurkers or occasional lurkers fail to participate out of fear. The first desiderata have to be more on the lines of sufficient leisure, interest, obsession, or some combination of the three. The same by the way seems to be the case on every list. Certainly it's true of wompo. My own participation depends largely on how involved I am with things that take me away from the keyboard. For the past few years, between publishing, editing and translating I've been a lot more sedentary than makes me happy, a situation I'm trying to rectify. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 8:35 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. ?I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." ? ?Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. ? > > >To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html,? >"Bob" responded with: > > >No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. >--http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html > >? > > > >What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. ?My grandpa would be most comfy here.? > > >Amy > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > >________________________________ >From: John Jeffrey >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list.? (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) > > > > > > >________________________________ >From: amy king >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. ?But you would deflect now... > > >"The world is full of good people who do bad things." ?-- Agatha Christie > > > > > >________________________________ >From: "junction at earthlink.net" > > >Maybe you scared them away? > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: amy king >>Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >> >> >> >> >>Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? >> >> >>We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? >> >> >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 >> >> >> >> >> >>********* >>VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>+?Interviews >> >> >>Amy's Alias >>+?http://amyking.org/? >>******** >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 21:38:41 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 21:38:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Message-ID: <18862814.1304645921930.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 22:15:46 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <18862814.1304645921930.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18862814.1304645921930.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <647503.98959.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> O Mark, You have almost perfected the art of being innocent and insulting at the same time. ?Almost. ?But that's your usual position, dashed with a hollow attempt at wit, so I'm not surprised. ? ?Your initial response to me was that those who left were "scared" - your word, not mine. I suppose you meant "scared" in some newfangled way a la "Bob," not in the 'fearful' sense. ?My bad. As for your characterizations of what I've been doing, it would be easier for you to shut me up if I had "psychoanalyzed" "Bob". ? Of course, you are guilty of the lack of reading comprehension you try to insult me with. ?Please do go through my posts and tell me where I "psychoanalyze" "Bob." ?In fact, I point to his behavior on the list and discuss the climate he contributes to and sustains with his quests. ?It's a nasty climate. ? But of course, like you, he also selectively ignored and reframed what I said by responding that I was calling him names and not referring to his behavior. ?Like minds and all... ?(and you know also, "Bob" never calls anyone names on list -- good thing you're keeping an eye out for such behavior!). This is an interesting moment though. Where "Bob" has dropped out of discussion, you, Mark, feel it necessary to begin a "defense" by re-framing what it is I've done -- ?if I've charged "Bob" with being "psychologically deformed" ?(your lovely phrase and an ugly one at that, esp for a therapist), then I can't possibly be saying anything of value. ? You prefer things to be 'the way they were,' much the same way those who engage in backlash prefer that their traditional privileges weren't threatened by people demanding better social and relational conditions. ?They should go back into hiding, back into "backchannel" where you have just told me to go. ? And why should you want things to change? ?You and Bob have historically fed off of each other's posts, enjoying free reign and not having to consider if your snips and snipes and 'witty' repartee are appropriate, harmful, or just plain ugly. ?I'm sorry, I don't buy the "he can say whatever he wants as often as he wants because once in a blue moon something he says makes me think" excuse. ?Why? ?Because this list is a community, as I've been pointing out and you suddenly seem to be aware of in honor of your new farcical attempt to try to take the moral highroad by protecting your "Bob" from what you have now characterized as my psychological character assassination. ?Since I am part of this community, I will not go "bcc" and I will no longer quietly abide. ?Good luck with those efforts to deflect -- I am undeterred. ? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Here's what I said: "I doubt that most of the lurkers or occasional lurkers fail to participate out of fear." I.e., I'm labeling it as "not fear." O% in reading comprehension. Of course I've objected to Bob's obsessive posts in the past, but I got tired of doing so a long time ago, probably before you were on the list.. I value the occasional things I find rather wise. Bob doesn't peg people as socially or psychologically deformed. He keeps his comments to their poetry and where he would place it in his system. Unless I missed something--I skip a lot of threads. Are you planning on conducting a trial? If so, how about b/c? Unless, as I suspect, you're hoping for a show trial, emphasis on the show. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 9:13 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >Mark, > > >I'm doling out, as often and as frequently, the type of dogged posts I've seen here, as regularly as "Bob" posts. ?What you're noting is my recent posting mode of the past two days -- I've decided that since "Bob" can do it with everyone tolerating his range, why not my own? ?"Bob" can analyze people based on next to no information; I'm going with what "Bob" -- and of course yours now that you've got your bro's back -- offer up. ? No one complains when "Bob" pegs everyone or posts a hundred times a day; why should they complain when I post with similar verve and speculation (although I've kept mine isolated and specific)? ? Why's it bug you when I do it, but not your "Bob"? > > >I only looked at one month today in the New Poetry archives. ?Shall I start digging up more evidence to back up my observations? ? I'm being truthy, after all! ?Can't anyone join in the versegoey game? ?Or is only "Bob" tolerated? > > >Further, you've labeled people's lack of participation as "fear," not me. ?I have described, in depth now, a slice of the conditions that deter people from posting. ?Why would they when they have to wade through "Bob's" accusations of being Wilshebooblias and deal with his Versegoey rants, only to risk being labeled by him when they reveal their reading practices, or to have the reception that you offer up? ?I'm guessing you're insistence on their fear hinges on you enjoying the idea that you can make others fearful. ?How's that for being "truthy"? ?Did I make it to the 80% mark yet?? > > >Amy > > > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > >________________________________ >From: "junction at earthlink.net" >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:52 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >I'm sorry you're angry at your grandfather. You seem to have learned a lot from him, if he was anything like your description of men . The behavior you globalize as masculine, the need to win in argument, to annihilate the opponent, to shut people up--wow, isn't that what you've been doing? How about threats to vent your anger if displeased, or psychoanalyzing and socioanalyzing your opponent in public? This is, among other things, a social environment, and normally "we" don't do those things in social environments. > >By the way, I didn't choose a moment to intervene, my computer did. I've had very little connectivity for the past several days. No telling how long the present email window will remain open. A new router and a new computer seem to be in the offing. > >On a more temperate note, and perhaps something to keep in mind: only about a dozen people (are there even that many) regularly contribute to this list. I doubt that most of the lurkers or occasional lurkers fail to participate out of fear. The first desiderata have to be more on the lines of sufficient leisure, interest, obsession, or some combination of the three. The same by the way seems to be the case on every list. Certainly it's true of wompo. My own participation depends largely on how involved I am with things that take me away from the keyboard. For the past few years, between publishing, editing and translating I've been a lot more sedentary than makes me happy, a situation I'm trying to rectify. > >Best, > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: amy king >>Sent: May 5, 2011 8:35 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >> >> >>I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. ?I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." ? ?Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. ? >> >> >>To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html,? >>"Bob" responded with: >> >> >>No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. >>--http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html >> >>? >> >> >> >>What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. ?My grandpa would be most comfy here.? >> >> >>Amy >> >> >>********* >>VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>+?Interviews >> >> >>Amy's Alias >>+?http://amyking.org/? >>******** >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: John Jeffrey >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >> >> >>I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list.? (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: amy king >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >> >> >>Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. ?But you would deflect now... >> >> >>"The world is full of good people who do bad things." ?-- Agatha Christie >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: "junction at earthlink.net" >> >> >>Maybe you scared them away? >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: amy king >>>Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >>>To: NewPoetry List >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? >>> >>> >>>We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? >>> >>> >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >>> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales >>> >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>********* >>>VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>>+?Interviews >>> >>> >>>Amy's Alias >>>+?http://amyking.org/? >>>******** >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu May 5 22:29:36 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Amy, I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared them away" idea. I was just commenting on it. But it was more of a tweak and I should not have written it. Apologies for that. Still, poor Bob. Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, as I know, he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from someone whom he once went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and far more viciously than anyone else on the list. We even feel free to take offhand shots at him jokingly, as if it's okay because, well, it's just Bob; everyone knows what Bob's like. But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, bizarre as they may be to some of us. Many people push their positions. You push your position quite often, and not everyone shares it or wants to read about it. In fact, every time someone announces the "winners" of some award or best of list, I know I'll see a post from Bob counting the Wilshy poets and a post from you counting the men v women. And that's fine. That's your right, both of yours. So post away, I say. But let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go unresponded to. He's up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, watching this list, watching and waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, waiting, waiting for a new post to respond to... John ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:35:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html, "Bob" responded with: No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. My grandpa would be most comfy here. Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list. (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." -- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry? "Bob" has some project to get people to use >terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes >that people will find them worthwhile? > > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and >that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the >archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests. Feel >free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by >the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his >vision quest (below) -- I notice a few women in posting about other things >during that month who are no longer here. Wonder why. > > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE marcus at >designerglass.com > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >+ Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 22:39:17 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 22:39:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Message-ID: <31856770.1304649557659.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 22:44:52 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <31856770.1304649557659.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31856770.1304649557659.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <327093.12198.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> O Mark, Please, no empty promises - my heart's all aflutter! Amy ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Me, I'm out of here. Best, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 5 22:59:05 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Jeffrey. ?I do get that "Bob" is tolerated, that some even find him amusing now and then, while others depend on him, paving and paving the way, to keep their own privileges intact. ?However, while I have seen "Bob's" personal attacks, I haven't witnessed these attacks on him, vicious as they are supposed to be. ? I find his multiple daily posts and insistence that others adopt his terms to be more than 'boorish' - it is as though I've walked into a party and one man is standing on the table, having just announced that he's taken some pills, and demands all attention on himself while he labels everything and everyone in the room. ?People fall into silence, drop away, and those who remain are shamed or insulted into talking in his terms. ?Of course, caveat, this is a limited parallel, but the point is that this is a listserv where a whole number of people are permitted to discuss poetry and related issues, but when I have dipped in this semester, it almost always feels like the "Bob" list. ? I feel I have three choices at this point: ?1.) leave the list bc I'm tired of reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every single day, 2.) stay and remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in kind. ?And by "in kind" I mean when I feel he's doing what I have ?described at some length now, I can reply with statements. ?I also fully expect everyone will tolerate and bear my 'boorish' replies as well as they do "Bob's", especially as I'll only post as often as "Bob." ?I haven't decided what plan I'll go with yet. ?Right now, to bed - Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Amy, I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared them away" idea.? I was just?commenting on it. ?But it was more of a tweak and I should not have written it. ?Apologies for that. Still, poor Bob. ?Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, as I know, he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from someone whom he once went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and far more viciously than anyone else on the list. ?We even feel free to take offhand shots at him jokingly, as if it's okay because, well, it's just Bob; everyone knows what Bob's like. But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, bizarre as they may be to some of us. ?Many people push their positions. ?You push your position quite often, and not everyone shares it or wants to read about it. ?In fact, every time someone announces the "winners" of some award or best of list, I know I'll see a post from?Bob?counting the Wilshy poets and a post from you?counting the men v women. And that's fine. ?That's your right, both of yours.? So post away, I say. ?But let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go unresponded to. ?He's up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, watching this list, watching and waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, waiting, waiting for a new post to respond to... John ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:35:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. ?I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." ? ?Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. ? To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html,? "Bob" responded with: No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html ? What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. ?My grandpa would be most comfy here.? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list.? (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. ?But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." ?-- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry?? "Bob" has some project to get people to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile?? > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests.?? Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest (below) --? I notice a few women in posting about other things during that month who are no longer here.? Wonder why. ? > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? marcus at designerglass.com > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE ? Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu May 5 23:00:57 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:00:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation in that project. Carol talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 5 23:21:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 22:21:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On May 5, 2011, at 9:59 PM, amy king wrote: > I feel I have three choices at this point: 1.) leave the list bc I'm tired of reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every single day, 2.) stay and remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in kind. ============ So is option 4) off the table?--i.e. stay and post on other topics? That's the one I'm trying to stick with. Whoops, there I've gone & violated it already! Ah, well. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 5 23:34:00 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 23:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] back to poetry Message-ID: <30855398.1304652841129.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> My own reaction to wilshberia etc stems from a conviction that coherent taxonomies of poetry don't serve much purpose. The problem, and a lot of the conflict here and elsewhere, is that "poem" and "Poetry" aren't static terms. What is meant by them and what is assumed to be accomplished by them varies historically but also within a given period. Frost's "free verse is no verse at all" would put outside the definition a fair amount of what the world has called poetry, but he wouldn't be alone. And one set of expectations gives way to another: it's inconceivable to me, for instance, that Dryden and most poets for a century afterwards turned their backs on Elizabethan and Jacobean lyric, and there's precious little of the 75 years between Pope and Wordsworth that Wordsworth thought worth reading. Genres change definition. Epic now seems to mean any long poem. Sonnets no longer rhyme and aren't always 14 lines or syllogistic. I'm dithering here, seriously tired, and I know I'm overstating the case, but I suppose my gist is clear. For me at the present the schism is about where a poem comes from and what it's supposed to do, very roughly on the one side emotion or whatever recollected in tranquility, on the other discovering the whatever in process. I don't know if anyone finds anything worth talking about here. Gotta be better than what we've been doing, though. Best, Mark From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu May 5 23:47:46 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <846410.97640.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I guess I just don't feel that the "lurkers" (horrible label, by the way) don't post because of Bob. I assume that only a small percentage post because, well, that's the usual percentage in this sort of endeavor. Same with radio call in shows, and community meetings, and classrooms. Most people just don't want to take that step. Public speaking, or posting, is scary. Though, yes, I can see that on this sort of list, there's an added level of fear. For instance, if a thread started about favorite poets and I posted a list of some of my favorite poets, I might get you weighing in on a lack of women, Bob weighing in on a lack of non-Wilshy poets, and others weighing in on the specific poets I've listed--"Larkin sucks" or, "My god, how can you include Hardy?" or "Where the hell is Eliot or Pound?" or... You need a tough skin. Not to mention, it takes time, lots of time to keep up with this list. And often, by the time I get home from work and read through the posts, there may have been a thread that interested me, but it's already burned out by the time I read it. So I don't post. There are probably many other reasons, too, why most people don't post. Maybe the lurkers could tell us why. Of course, that would require them to post...at least once. Hello? ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:59:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Thanks, Jeffrey. I do get that "Bob" is tolerated, that some even find him amusing now and then, while others depend on him, paving and paving the way, to keep their own privileges intact. However, while I have seen "Bob's" personal attacks, I haven't witnessed these attacks on him, vicious as they are supposed to be. I find his multiple daily posts and insistence that others adopt his terms to be more than 'boorish' - it is as though I've walked into a party and one man is standing on the table, having just announced that he's taken some pills, and demands all attention on himself while he labels everything and everyone in the room. People fall into silence, drop away, and those who remain are shamed or insulted into talking in his terms. Of course, caveat, this is a limited parallel, but the point is that this is a listserv where a whole number of people are permitted to discuss poetry and related issues, but when I have dipped in this semester, it almost always feels like the "Bob" list. I feel I have three choices at this point: 1.) leave the list bc I'm tired of reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every single day, 2.) stay and remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in kind. And by "in kind" I mean when I feel he's doing what I have described at some length now, I can reply with statements. I also fully expect everyone will tolerate and bear my 'boorish' replies as well as they do "Bob's", especially as I'll only post as often as "Bob." I haven't decided what plan I'll go with yet. Right now, to bed - Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Amy, I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared them away" idea. I was just commenting on it. But it was more of a tweak and I should not have written it. Apologies for that. Still, poor Bob. Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, as I know, he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from someone whom he once went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and far more viciously than anyone else on the list. We even feel free to take offhand shots at him jokingly, as if it's okay because, well, it's just Bob; everyone knows what Bob's like. But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, bizarre as they may be to some of us. Many people push their positions. You push your position quite often, and not everyone shares it or wants to read about it. In fact, every time someone announces the "winners" of some award or best of list, I know I'll see a post from Bob counting the Wilshy poets and a post from you counting the men v women. And that's fine. That's your right, both of yours. So post away, I say. But let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go unresponded to. He's up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, watching this list, watching and waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, waiting, waiting for a new post to respond to... John ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:35:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. I said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html, "Bob" responded with: No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person that something he's devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to unsubscribe because of my name-calling. --Bob G. --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. My grandpa would be most comfy here. Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on the list. (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point is still the same.) ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who scared them away. But you would deflect now... "The world is full of good people who do bad things." -- Agatha Christie ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" Maybe you scared them away? -----Original Message----- >From: amy king >Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > > > >Is this a cycle here at New Poetry? "Bob" has some project to get people to use >terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes >that people will find them worthwhile? > > > >We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and >that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the >archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests. Feel >free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by >the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his >vision quest (below) -- I notice a few women in posting about other things >during that month who are no longer here. Wonder why. > > > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE marcus at >designerglass.com > > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Anthony Robinson > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > > >********* >VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >+ Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 6 02:23:13 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:23:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <846410.97640.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <846410.97640.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, I am not a lurker and I stick to David Graham's 4th option. I *do not want*to see Amy go away and I can deal pretty well with Bob's posts that - to me - are amusing, and it seems to me that they also amuse several other people here. I like this list, right because it is not too crowded and because it has several dynamics that make of it more a bunch of friends rather than an anonymous sequence of never-heard-of names without being the tiny hamlet where everybody knows everything of the other. If Bob needed this cold shower, he has had it and has used Amy to state it (quite well, I should say). And Amy has overworked, Bob give her a break. My idea is to turn page and do what we have to do, which is really a lot. At least here where I am. It is in the morning that one 'produces' and I usually find all the threads of your previous evening to read... My very best to you, Anny On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:47 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > I guess I just don't feel that the "lurkers" (horrible label, by the way) > don't post because of Bob. I assume that only a small percentage post > because, well, that's the usual percentage in this sort of endeavor. Same > with radio call in shows, and community meetings, and classrooms. Most > people just don't want to take that step. Public speaking, or posting, is > scary. > > Though, yes, I can see that on this sort of list, there's an added level of > fear. For instance, if a thread started about favorite poets and I posted a > list of some of my favorite poets, I might get you weighing in on a lack of > women, Bob weighing in on a lack of non-Wilshy poets, and others weighing in > on the specific poets I've listed--"Larkin sucks" or, "My god, how can you > include Hardy?" or "Where the hell is Eliot or Pound?" or... You need a > tough skin. > > Not to mention, it takes time, lots of time to keep up with this list. And > often, by the time I get home from work and read through the posts, there > may have been a thread that interested me, but it's already burned out by > the time I read it. So I don't post. > > There are probably many other reasons, too, why most people don't post. > Maybe the lurkers could tell us why. Of course, that would require them to > post...at least once. Hello? > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* amy king > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 10:59:05 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > Thanks, Jeffrey. I do get that "Bob" is tolerated, that some even find him > amusing now and then, while others depend on him, paving and paving the way, > to keep their own privileges intact. However, while I have seen "Bob's" > personal attacks, I haven't witnessed these attacks on him, vicious as they > are supposed to be. > > I find his multiple daily posts and insistence that others adopt his terms > to be more than 'boorish' - it is as though I've walked into a party and one > man is standing on the table, having just announced that he's taken some > pills, and demands all attention on himself while he labels everything and > everyone in the room. People fall into silence, drop away, and those who > remain are shamed or insulted into talking in his terms. Of course, caveat, > this is a limited parallel, but the point is that this is a listserv where a > whole number of people are permitted to discuss poetry and related issues, > but when I have dipped in this semester, it almost always feels like the > "Bob" list. > > I feel I have three choices at this point: 1.) leave the list bc I'm tired > of reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every single day, 2.) > stay and remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in kind. And by "in > kind" I mean when I feel he's doing what I have described at some length > now, I can reply with statements. I also fully expect everyone will > tolerate and bear my 'boorish' replies as well as they do "Bob's", > especially as I'll only post as often as "Bob." I haven't decided what plan > I'll go with yet. Right now, to bed - Amy > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Jeffrey > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:29 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > Amy, > > I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared them > away" idea. I was just commenting on it. But it was more of a tweak and I > should not have written it. Apologies for that. > > Still, poor Bob. Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, as I > know, he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from someone whom > he once went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and far more viciously > than anyone else on the list. We even feel free to take offhand shots at > him jokingly, as if it's okay because, well, it's just Bob; everyone knows > what Bob's like. > > But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, bizarre as > they may be to some of us. Many people push their positions. You push your > position quite often, and not everyone shares it or wants to read about it. > In fact, every time someone announces the "winners" of some award or best > of list, I know I'll see a post from Bob counting the Wilshy poets and a > post from you counting the men v women. > > And that's fine. That's your right, both of yours. So post away, I say. > But let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go unresponded > to. He's up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, watching this > list, watching and waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, waiting, waiting for > a new post to respond to... > > John > > ------------------------------ > *From:* amy king > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 8:35:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are > fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running > away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. I said they left; > Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." > Further, as I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable > climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. > > To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html, > "Bob" responded with: > > No, moron, > it's the argument that if you tell a person > that something he's > devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a > clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would > if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you > didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could > do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize > that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no > reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. > > And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to > unsubscribe because of my name-calling. > > --Bob G. > > --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html > > > What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" > and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been > tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New > Poetry. My grandpa would be most comfy here. > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Jeffrey > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran > simply because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other > people on the list. (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, > but the point is still the same.) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* amy king > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who > scared them away. But you would deflect now... > > "The world is full of good people who do bad things." -- Agatha Christie > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > * > * > Maybe you scared them away? > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History > Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > Is this a cycle here at New Poetry? "Bob" has some project to get people > to use terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum > in the hopes that people will find them worthwhile? > > We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" > and that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in > the archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage > quests. Feel free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying > Literature by the Numbers-SMILE" > before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his vision quest > (below) -- I notice a few women in posting about other things during that > month who are no longer here. Wonder why. > > > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *marcus at designerglass.com * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Anthony Robinson * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Bob Grumman * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Robin Hamilton * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Bob Grumman * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Robin Hamilton * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Bob Grumman * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Marcus Bales * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Bob Grumman * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Marcus Bales * > - [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE > > *Marcus Bales * > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 > > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 07:29:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 06:29:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - HistoryRepeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><3 34232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC3DB8A.6000604@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 7:35 PM, amy king wrote: > I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who > are fed up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and > 'running away,' as though they don't have reason enough to leave. I > said they left; Mark claimed I 'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' > deflect for his "Bob." Further, as I've noted before, Mark > contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply in kind to Mark. > > To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html, > "Bob" responded with: > > No, moron, it's the argument that if you tell a person > that something he's > devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a > clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would > if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you > didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could > do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize > that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no > reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. > > And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to > unsubscribe because of my name-calling. > > --Bob G. > > --http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html > Good work, Amy. Now why don't you try to find a post of mine in which I carry out an attempt at character assassination against someone the way you're carrying one out now against me, I'm a pop-off artist at times, and can get carried away when someone says something I find disagreeable (when I'm in the wrong kind of mood that might be a mere opinion that the poetry I compose is very bad), not having your sweet temperament, but I've never singled out a person for actions "at best problematic and at worst unconscionable," then carried out searches to find evidence to post for that while posting innuendo about whom his behavior has bothered. Meanwhile, rarely if ever responding directly to anything he posts--and, at least in your victim's view, misrepresenting him and his thought pretty severely. > > What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of > "defense" and just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus > what has been tolerated as traditional 'par for the course' for so > long here on New Poetry. My grandpa would be most comfy here. . What was defended was not tolerated as par for the course. I was warned about it and, apparently, even banned for a short time for it (I can't remember). So now my insults are less violent and, like yours, avoid name-calling. Note how politely I've responded to Mike's calling my work mathematical games, and not poems. Marcus and I remain friends, by the way. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 07:47:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 06:47:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - HistoryRepeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><3 34232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC3DFB5.5090205@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 9:29 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Amy, > > I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared > them away" idea. I was just commenting on it. But it was more of a > tweak and I should not have written it. Apologies for that. > > Still, poor Bob. Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, > as I know, he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from > someone whom he once went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and > far more viciously than anyone else on the list. We even feel free to > take offhand shots at him jokingly, as if it's okay because, well, > it's just Bob; everyone knows what Bob's like. > > But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, > bizarre as they may be to some of us. Many people push their > positions. You push your position quite often, and not everyone > shares it or wants to read about it. In fact, every time someone > announces the "winners" of some award or best of list, I know I'll see > a post from Bob counting the Wilshy poets and a post from you counting > the men v women. > > And that's fine. That's your right, both of yours. So post away, I > say. But let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go > unresponded to. He's up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, > watching this list, watching and waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, > waiting, waiting for a new post to respond to... > > John . Thanks, John. I would only add that I think my excessive cut of the New-Poetry pie is more due to how little others post than how much I do. It's also true that when you're the only one representing a position in a thread against six or seven against it, you will tend to "dominate" the thread. A big thanks to Mark, too. I was afraid for a while that no one saw anything of my side of all this. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amanda at surkont.com Fri May 6 06:41:11 2011 From: amanda at surkont.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 03:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <613913.58464.qm@web1210.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> His posts usually end up in my spam folder with the replies properly going to my inbox, so I have to search the spam folder for the original before I read the reply. ?Not sure why that happens and even directing the mail program and adding him to my "white mail list" did not help that; all his original posts still end up in the spam folder, which may be happening to others...?? best, manda --- On Thu, 5/5/11, John Jeffrey wrote: From: John Jeffrey Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 4:51 PM James, I've always received Bob's posts late. ?But only Bob's. ?In fact, I usually get the responses to Bob's posts before I get Bob's original post. ?It's odd. ?But I've gotten used to it. Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. ?I haven't assigned any reason for it, though I'm sure it has something to do with his poetry. John From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry?posts out of sequence? ? Perhaps it's an?@aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple days ago for me. ? Finnegan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 07:52:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 06:52:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - HistoryRepeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><3 34232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.ya hoo.com><223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC3E0E4.8020308@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 10:21 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On May 5, 2011, at 9:59 PM, amy king wrote: > >> I feel I have three choices at this point: 1.) leave the list bc I'm >> tired of reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every >> single day, 2.) stay and remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in >> kind. > ============ > > So is option 4) off the table?--i.e. stay and post on other topics? > That's the one I'm trying to stick with. Whoops, there I've gone & > violated it already! > > Ah, well. . 4) won't work, David--"Bob" (heheheheheheheh) will no doubt jump into any thread begun here and find a way to force-feed his terminology to those participating in it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 07:58:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 06:58:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] back to poetry In-Reply-To: <30855398.1304652841129.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <30855398.1304652841129.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DC3E275.6070402@nut-n-but.net> On 5/5/2011 10:34 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > My own reaction to wilshberia etc stems from a conviction that coherent taxonomies of poetry don't serve much purpose. The problem, and a lot of the conflict here and elsewhere, is that "poem" and "Poetry" aren't static terms. What is meant by them and what is assumed to be accomplished by them varies historically but also within a given period. Frost's "free verse is no verse at all" would put outside the definition a fair amount of what the world has called poetry, but he wouldn't be alone. And one set of expectations gives way to another: it's inconceivable to me, for instance, that Dryden and most poets for a century afterwards turned their backs on Elizabethan and Jacobean lyric, and there's precious little of the 75 years between Pope and Wordsworth that Wordsworth thought worth reading. > > Genres change definition. Epic now seems to mean any long poem. Sonnets no longer rhyme and aren't always 14 lines or syllogistic. > > I'm dithering here, seriously tired, and I know I'm overstating the case, but I suppose my gist is clear. For me at the present the schism is about where a poem comes from and what it's supposed to do, very roughly on the one side emotion or whatever recollected in tranquility, on the other discovering the whatever in process. > > I don't know if anyone finds anything worth talking about here. Gotta be better than what we've been doing, though. > > Best, > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > . I won't yet again re-state my position on taxonomy (or "Wilshberia," which is not part of my taxonomy, just a term for the wide range of contemporary poetry exclusively recognized as important between c. 1960 and c. 2000), but I really can't understand why people should be annoyed with me if I did. --Bob From jschickl at hotmail.com Fri May 6 07:12:37 2011 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 05:12:37 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amy, i just read three really great books of recent poetry -- Dan Beachy-Quick's Heroisms (Poor Claudia)(perhaps of special interest to the feminist reader), CAConrad's Mugged Into Poetry (Cannot Exist), and most profoundly, Deborah Meadows' Saccade Patterns (Blazevox). Meadows is 90 pages, i read it cover to cover, which is not common for me. I'd also say Alfred the Great's ethnographic accounts, but enjoy the beach -- i saw your post as i'm in the wake of these books --- Dan and CA's are chaps, and they come cheap. Jared : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > Message-ID: <713171.96772.qm at web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)?? > > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > > Amy > > ? > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/? > ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martinwoodside at yahoo.com Fri May 6 07:41:42 2011 From: martinwoodside at yahoo.com (martin woodside) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 04:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <1823408.1304634687151.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <356009.98301.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <334232.69503.qm@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <714402.67402.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <347308.11266.qm@web120520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <223695.53591.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <846410.97640.qm@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <475501.20422.qm@web114710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi, I'm a "lurker," it appears, and so, if it helps, I'll just briefly point out that: 1) Bob often appears boorish 2) This is no way prevents me from posting or intimidates me (the world's full of boorish people. Bob, as pointed out, seems relatively harmless). 3) I simply don't have much time to post but enjoy following along--except, of course, when the conversation deteriorates into these kinds of squabbles; In times, like this, I delete a lot more messages unread. Hoping everyone moves on to something more productive soon, Martin Woodside ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 2:23:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry Hello, I am not a lurker and I stick to David Graham's 4th option. I do not want to see Amy go away and I can deal pretty well with Bob's posts that - to me - are amusing, and it seems to me that they also amuse several other people here. I like this list, right because it is not too crowded and because it has several dynamics that make of it more a bunch of friends rather than an anonymous sequence of never-heard-of names without being the tiny hamlet where everybody knows everything of the other. If Bob needed this cold shower, he has had it and has used Amy to state it (quite well, I should say). And Amy has overworked, Bob give her a break. My idea is to turn page and do what we have to do, which is really a lot. At least here where I am. It is in the morning that one 'produces' and I usually find all the threads of your previous evening to read... My very best to you, Anny On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:47 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: I guess I just don't feel that the "lurkers" (horrible label, by the way) don't post because of Bob. I assume that only a small percentage post because, well, that's the usual percentage in this sort of endeavor. Same with radio call in shows, and community meetings, and classrooms. Most people just don't want to take that step. Public speaking, or posting, is scary. > >Though, yes, I can see that on this sort of list, there's an added level of >fear. For instance, if a thread started about favorite poets and I posted a >list of some of my favorite poets, I might get you weighing in on a lack of >women, Bob weighing in on a lack of non-Wilshy poets, and others weighing in on >the specific poets I've listed--"Larkin sucks" or, "My god, how can you include >Hardy?" or "Where the hell is Eliot or Pound?" or... You need a tough skin. > >Not to mention, it takes time, lots of time to keep up with this list. And >often, by the time I get home from work and read through the posts, there may >have been a thread that interested me, but it's already burned out by the time I >read it. So I don't post. > >There are probably many other reasons, too, why most people don't post. Maybe >the lurkers could tell us why. Of course, that would require them to post...at >least once. Hello? > > > > > > ________________________________ From: amy king >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:59:05 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > > >Thanks, Jeffrey. I do get that "Bob" is tolerated, that some even find him >amusing now and then, while others depend on him, paving and paving the way, to >keep their own privileges intact. However, while I have seen "Bob's" personal >attacks, I haven't witnessed these attacks on him, vicious as they are supposed >to be. > > >I find his multiple daily posts and insistence that others adopt his terms to be >more than 'boorish' - it is as though I've walked into a party and one man is >standing on the table, having just announced that he's taken some pills, and >demands all attention on himself while he labels everything and everyone in the >room. People fall into silence, drop away, and those who remain are shamed or >insulted into talking in his terms. Of course, caveat, this is a limited >parallel, but the point is that this is a listserv where a whole number of >people are permitted to discuss poetry and related issues, but when I have >dipped in this semester, it almost always feels like the "Bob" list. > > >I feel I have three choices at this point: 1.) leave the list bc I'm tired of >reading "Bob" force-feeding his terms ad nauseum every single day, 2.) stay and >remain silent or 3.) respond to his posts in kind. And by "in kind" I mean when >I feel he's doing what I have described at some length now, I can reply with >statements. I also fully expect everyone will tolerate and bear my 'boorish' >replies as well as they do "Bob's", especially as I'll only post as often as >"Bob." I haven't decided what plan I'll go with yet. Right now, to bed - Amy > > > > > >********* >VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >+ Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:29 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >Amy, > >I wasn't the first to ascribe fear, and even you repeated the "scared them away" >idea. I was just commenting on it. But it was more of a tweak and I should not >have written it. Apologies for that. > >Still, poor Bob. Sure he over-posts and, yes, he can be boorish and, as I know, >he can get too personal in his attacks (this coming from someone whom he once >went after), but Bob.gets attacked far more and far more viciously than anyone >else on the list. We even feel free to take offhand shots at him jokingly, as >if it's okay because, well, it's just Bob; everyone knows what Bob's like. > >But he's just pushing (and pushing) his position and his ideas, bizarre as they >may be to some of us. Many people push their positions. You push your position >quite often, and not everyone shares it or wants to read about it. In fact, >every time someone announces the "winners" of some award or best of list, I know >I'll see a post from Bob counting the Wilshy poets and a post from you counting >the men v women. > >And that's fine. That's your right, both of yours. So post away, I say. But >let's not attack Bob because he can't ever let a post go unresponded to. He's >up day and night, 24 hours a day, the poor guy, watching this list, watching and >waiting, red-eyed, hands twitching, waiting, waiting for a new post to respond >to... > > >John > > > ________________________________ From: amy king >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:35:27 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >I think it insulting that you characterize the departure of people who are fed >up with an inhospitable posting climate as 'cowardly' and 'running away,' as >though they don't have reason enough to leave. I said they left; Mark claimed I >'scared' them away so as to 'jokingly' deflect for his "Bob." Further, as >I've noted before, Mark contributes to that inhospitable climate, hence my reply >in kind to Mark. > > >To boot, when one member that month noted his/her departure - >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046822.html, >"Bob" responded with: > > >No, moron, > it's the argument that if you tell a person > that something he's > devoted a major part of his life to is something that could be bettered by a >clever seventh-grader, you are being rather less kind to him than you would >if you have simply called him a moron. Of course, I recognize that you > didn't say my mathemaku were something a not-too-clever seventh-grader could >do, only that everyone who looked at them would say that. I also recognize >that your opinion is ludicrous, as are all your opinions, which is no > reflection on you, personally, nor intended to be insulting. > >And now I'll withdraw from this exchange. Wouldn't want any more lurkers to >unsubscribe because of my name-calling. > >--Bob G. > > >--http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/046828.html > > > > > >What's even more revealing are these sudden pop-up appearances of "defense" and >just whom / what they're claiming to 'defend' -- versus what has been tolerated >as traditional 'par for the course' for so long here on New Poetry. My grandpa >would be most comfy here. > > >Amy > > >********* >VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >+ Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+ http://amyking.org/ >******** > > > ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:12 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >I think it rather insulting to women to assume that they cowered and ran simply >because one person on the list posts and posits more than the other people on >the list. (Okay, more than 5 or 10 other people added together, but the point >is still the same.) > > > > > > ________________________________ From: amy king >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 7:34:54 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry > > >Telling that you chime in at this precise point, Mark. I think we know who >scared them away. But you would deflect now... > > >"The world is full of good people who do bad things." -- Agatha Christie > > > > > ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" > > >Maybe you scared them away? > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: amy king >>Sent: May 5, 2011 5:21 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No W but Very Much a Monster Post - History Repeats >>Itself, over and over here @ New Poetry >> >> >> >> >> >>Is this a cycle here at New Poetry? "Bob" has some project to get people to use >>terms he's created and defined and then he keeps posting ad nauseum in the hopes >>that people will find them worthwhile? >> >> >> >>We've moved from something called "Wilshblabbedyblah" back to "Verse-ego-y" and >>that conversation, along with similar debunking, can easily be found in the >>archives for anyone who is actually interested in "Bob's" coinage quests. Feel >>free to re-read those conversations under the thread of Studying Literature by >>the Numbers-SMILE" before you re-hash everything for the sake of "Bob" and his >>vision quest (below) -- I notice a few women in posting about other things >>during that month who are no longer here. Wonder why. >> >> >> >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE marcus at >>designerglass.com >> >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Anthony Robinson >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Robin Hamilton >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Bob Grumman >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales >> * [New-Poetry] Studying Literature by the Numbers-SMILE Marcus Bales >> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/2004-January/thread.html#46812 >> >> >> >> >> >>********* >>VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>+ Interviews >> >> >>Amy's Alias >>+ http://amyking.org/ >>******** >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Fri May 6 08:17:52 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (Sheila Black) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:17:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: kate Greenstreet---The Last Four Things.. Its like eavesdropping on a really juicy conversation. Cheers! Sheila Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way ahead of me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: >> >> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? >> >> Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! >> >> Amy >> >> >> ********* >> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> + Interviews >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 09:37:45 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 09:37:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Jerry, A lot of that makes sense to me. We should do more this on the list, when you emerge from cave after grading. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 5:45 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun The poem feels very Beckett-like to me in places. And the "Dearest" catches me in the middle of two or three ways of handling what I'm reading. As you say, on one hand intimacy, on another affectation. But there's a little more there for me, resident or resonant in those "and so on"s. Outside the contours of "Dearest" (and the "intimate" way of reading that itself splits--is it a writerly "intimate," which might or might not be affectation, or is it a personal "intimate," changing this into a kind of epistolary poem?), the poem's language feels like a series of desperate little flights, leading to "and so on" when they run out of energy or efficacy . . . or something. And so the "Dearest" might be read itself as a kind of desperate (doubled, mirrored, shadowed) effort to recoup from the evacuated psychology of "and so on" something like energy, efficacy, or even sincerity. Like other of Palmer's poems, it feels not so much like a play of words or ideas as of rhetorics. And none of this even takes into account the poem's weird positioning--"painting" the outside world from a place "in a cave" (which is followed by the Anglo-Saxon "agape," which in turn invokes the Greek ""). In other words, like "Fifth Prose," "Dearest" (to me) feels like it's playing a postmodern dance of rhetorics (which, of course, links the poem's attitudes to those of the Sophists) off against both a kind of Platonic idealization and a desire for real things. That's about the best I can do right now. I'm "grading" "student" "creative" "writing." Jerry On 5/5/2011 4:15 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: That "Dearest" must be doing something important. One would tend, I think, to read that expression either as a gesture toward intimacy or one of affectation. I'd prefer the former. The latter reading would somewhat deflating, by adding an aspect of tongue-in-cheek. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:54 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun A great instance of finesse, I think--that it's actually "Dearest Reader," not "Dear Reader." The difference between the two, emotionally, seems profound to me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 3:43 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Yes, thanks for posting. I heard Palmer read at Wesleyan U. a couple years and was impressed by his work and his commentary between poems. I bought a couple books but haven't spent time with them for some reason. I need too. I much prefer "Dear Reader" of the two pieces. It seems to be more about the experience of life as art. Curious that title coming from the address of "Dear reader" about midway into the poem. Very painterly in its description. And the opening sentence immediately makes me think Cezanne (though nothing later in poem directly relates) and the penultimate image comes from a "photograph of nothing but pigeons." There is plenty of mystery in the poem but the good kind. For me, "Fifth Prose" has two much randomness in it. There are some intriguing passages to mull but in the end I can't make anything out of it, nor does it affect me (by provoking an emotion). The poem doesn't make me feel anything other than befuddled. Or better put, I'm left in a state of entropy. Finnegan ----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Jerry & Stephen, Thanks for this intro to Michael Palmer -- c Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact >Message: 32 Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57:04 -0500 From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Message-ID: <4DC2C8D0.3040602 at louisiana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Thanks--that's a spectacular gesture of imagination. Here's another of Palmer's voices that just seems wonderful to me: DEAREST READER He painted the mountain over and over again from his place in the cave, agape at the light, its absence, the mantled skull with blue-tinted hollows, wren- like bird plucking berries from the fire her hair alight and so on lemon grass in cafe in clear glass. Dearest reader there were trees formed of wire, broad entryways beneath balconies beneath spires youthful head come to rest in meadow beside bend in gravel road, still body of milky liquid her hair alight and so on successive halls, flowered carpets and doors or the photograph of nothing but pigeons and grackles by the shadow of a fountain. On 5/5/2011 9:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm awfully late getting to the work of Michael Palmer. And I've just > finished "Sun," his sixth volume. All the poems in this volume knock > me out. Palmer's English sounds somehow the way I imagined Rilke's > German might sound, and I've only read Rilke in translation so I > really have no idea how Rilke does sound in his native tongue. Here's > the opening poem from "Sun." > > Fifth Prose > > > Because I'm writing about the snow not the sentence > Because there is a card-a visitor's card-and on that card > there are words of ours arranged in a row > > and on those words we have written house, we have written > leave this house, we > have written be this house, the spiral of a house, channels > through this house > > and we have written The Provinces and The Reversal and > something called the Human Poems > though we live in a valley on the Hill of Ghosts > > Still for many days the rain will continue to fall > A voice will say Father I am burning > > Father I've removed a stone from a wall, erased a picture from > that wall, > a picture of ships-cloud ships-pressing toward the sea > > words only > taken limb by limb apart > > Because we are not alive not alone > but ordinary extracts from the tablets > > Hassan the Arab and his wife > who did vaulting and balancing > > Coleman and Burgess, and Adele Newsome > pitched among the spectators one night > > Lizzie Keys > and Fred who fell from the trapeze > > into the sawdust > and wasn't hurt at all > > and Jacob Hall the rope-dancer > Little Sandy and Sam Sault > > Because there is a literal shore, a letter that's blood-red > Because in this dialect the eyes are crossed or quartz > > seeing swimmer and seeing rock > statue then shadow > > and here in the lake > first a razor then a fact > _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- rof. Jerry McGuire ept. of English niversity of Louisiana at Lafayette lm8047 at louisiana.edu 37-482-5478 _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- rof. Jerry McGuire ept. of English niversity of Louisiana at Lafayette lm8047 at louisiana.edu 37-482-5478 _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri May 6 09:54:07 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant get what the fuss is about. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way ahead of me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri May 6 09:58:37 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 05:58:37 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Well, I wouldn't have added my recommendation if I thought so... I guess that means my answer is "no." Maybe I'm just lucky too. c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:54 AM, wrote: > Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and > ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant > get what the fuss is about. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then > her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away > my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise > Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). > Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, > first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some > great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance > Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way > ahead of me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: > > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay > attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for > the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 6 09:59:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:59:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spaar on poetic self-portraiture Message-ID: <93A2B52D-8B5D-4EBE-B08B-621596E710E3@ripon.edu> Lisa Russ Spaar ponders the art of the self-portrait in poetry: http://chronicle.com/blogs/arts/thoughts-on-poetic-self-portraiture/29232 Here's an excerpt: Especially interesting in this regard is the self-portrait poem. Artists have been making self-portraits since antiquity (what model is cheaper and more readily available?), but the self-portrait poem, as a, well, self-conscious literary entity, is arguably relatively new. Some might posit that the self-portrait poem, at least in the lyric tradition, is a tautology?isn?t every poem a ?portrayal,? however disguised or indirect, of its maker, be it Sappho, Bash?, Mirabai, or Father Hopkins? And yet, with notable exceptions, it isn?t until the mid-20th century that we begin to see poets calling their works ?self-portraits.? A recent Granger?s search yielded 103 results for poems with ?self-portrait? in the title. Only a handful of these writers, mostly from Europe, were born before the 20th-century. And while Emily Dickinson taunted ?I?m nobody! Who are you? and Whitman claimed to celebrate and sing himself, and although it is possible to see Eliot in Prufrock or Yeats in ?Among School Children,? with some exceptional early- to mid-20th century forays into the self-portrait (Williams, Creeley, Ammons, Justice, O?Hara), it is not until the appearance of John Ashbery?s Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror (1975) that the practice of writing self-portrait poems appears to explode. --Lisa Russ Spaar ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 10:03:16 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:03:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Carol, what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer assume/presume that the reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each element is disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the reader's attention. If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is possible, given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) one is left unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations of well-rendered images or resonations of rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, but that's the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, or much to expect from the reading. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation in that project. Carol talkingwriting.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 6 10:18:04 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:18:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Construction of the Museum In the hole we found beside the road something would eventually go Names we saw spelled backward there In the sand we found a tablet In the hole caused by bombs which are smart we might find a hand It is the writing hand hand which dreams a hole to the left and the right of each hand The hand is called day-inside-night because of the colored fragments which it holds We never say the word desert nor does the sand pass through the fingers of this hand we forget is ours We might say, Memory has made its selection, and think of the body now as an altered body framed by flaming wells or walls What a noise the words make writing themselves --Michael Palmer in *At Passages* [New York: New Directions, 1995] "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, wrote: > Carol, > what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer assume/presume > that the reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? > Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have > to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her > way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. > > There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each > element is disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ > thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the > reader's attention. > > If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is possible, > given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) > one is left unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations > of well-rendered images or resonations of rhetoric linger as > afterimages/echoes, but that's the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, > or much to expect from the reading. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: carol dorf > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of > the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as > fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation > in that project. > > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 6 10:47:29 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:47:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The poem is my guide and, in this case, my reward also. - Jim On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Construction of the Museum > > In the hole we found beside the road > something would eventually go > > Names we saw spelled backward there > > In the sand we found a tablet > > In the hole caused by bombs > which are smart we might find a hand > > It is the writing hand > hand which dreams a hole > > to the left and the right of each hand > > The hand is called day-inside-night > because of the colored fragments which it holds > > We never say the word desert > nor does the sand pass through the fingers > > of this hand we forget > is ours > > We might say, Memory has made its selection, > and think of the body now as an altered body > > framed by flaming wells or walls > > What a noise the words make > writing themselves > > --Michael Palmer > > in *At Passages* > [New York: New Directions, 1995] > > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, wrote: > >> Carol, >> what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer assume/presume >> that the reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? >> Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have >> to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her >> way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. >> >> There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each >> element is disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ >> thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the >> reader's attention. >> >> If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is possible, >> given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) >> one is left unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations >> of well-rendered images or resonations of rhetoric linger as >> afterimages/echoes, but that's the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, >> or much to expect from the reading. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: carol dorf >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of >> the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as >> fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation >> in that project. >> >> Carol >> talkingwriting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 10:49:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:49:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to overtly toward the act of writing, toward calling attention to words, which is already admirably imbedded in various other places. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:18 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Construction of the Museum In the hole we found beside the road something would eventually go Names we saw spelled backward there In the sand we found a tablet In the hole caused by bombs which are smart we might find a hand It is the writing hand hand which dreams a hole to the left and the right of each hand The hand is called day-inside-night because of the colored fragments which it holds We never say the word desert nor does the sand pass through the fingers of this hand we forget is ours We might say, Memory has made its selection, and think of the body now as an altered body framed by flaming wells or walls What a noise the words make writing themselves --Michael Palmer in At Passages [New York: New Directions, 1995] "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, wrote: Carol, what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer assume/presume that the reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each element is disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the reader's attention. If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is possible, given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) one is left unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations of well-rendered images or resonations of rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, but that's the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, or much to expect from the reading. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation in that project. Carol talkingwriting.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri May 6 10:53:38 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 09:53:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> I'd forgotten about any prize(s) /Lighthead /might have won, and seem to have misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my business, at least on the odd days of the week. Best, Jerry On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's /Lighthead/ > overrated and ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now > and honestly cant get what the fuss is about. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) > then her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just > gave away my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably > read it) Denise Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ > written in French). Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert > Creeley's last (or at least, first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And > if you decide to switch to some great prose and haven't read her, any > of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've > already read all those, you're way, way, way ahead of me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: >> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to >> pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new >> poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? >> >> Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much >> appreciated! >> >> Amy >> >> ********* >> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> + Interviews >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri May 6 10:58:10 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I needed to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are sure will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the fuss about?" -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my business, at least on the odd days of the week. Best, Jerry On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant get what the fuss is about. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way ahead of me. Jerry On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 6 11:04:39 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:04:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? /Terrance Hayes In-Reply-To: <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <270C8005-56AA-42CB-9990-3AAABFAB6730@ripon.edu> I reviewed Hayes's previous book, *Wind in a Box*, for American Book Review, but haven't gotten around to *Lighthead* yet. I'll be interested to see what direction Hayes has moved in since then. Though my review was largely favorable, I did have some reservations about what he was up to in *Wind*. For what it's worth, I'll quote a bit from myself, a few passages where I outline what made me a bit uneasy about *Wind in a Box* as a whole, focusing on the series of title poems in the collection : "After reading a half dozen of these intriguing but cryptic pieces, it is fair to conclude that Hayes has taken us to a variety of imaginary cities without fully imagining them for us. Of course, wind in a box is an apt image for any number of tensions or binaries (flux and stasis, natural and artificial, created and uncreated, defined and indefinable); but a metaphor that can mean almost anything risks meaning nearly nothing. It is a risk that Hayes, for good or ill, embraces with gusto. Ultimately, the question of coherence in both book and title sequence is addressed by Hayes himself in a gesture reminiscent of Whitman's many declarations of his own elusiveness: These words want to answer your questions. These words want to stave off your suffering, but cannot. I leave them to you. ("Wind in a Box" 81) Not surprisingly, Hayes takes as one of his epigraphs Whitman's most presciently postmodern boast ("I am large, I contain multitudes") and Wind in a Box is itself a thoroughly postmodern production, the expression not of a unified, unifying voice so much as a chorus of contending voices, always insistently self-conscious, skittery, performative. That Hayes is fertile in invention and frisky in formal experimentation is certainly admirable. For many readers, however, some of Hayes's experiments will inevitably fall a bit flat. "Imaginary Poems for the Old-Fashioned Future," for instance, consists of twelve disconnected but numbered items of prose, each one noting a poem or poems the speaker might write in the future. Number four reads, in its entirety, "A poem by someone named Lester Sea. Someone named Lenore. Headline sonnets maybe. Titles ripped from the annals of jazz bebop, no doubt" (83). Number twelve announces but does not supply "A tercet rhyming bric-a-brac, brick a black, and poppa bag" (84). This sort of play among signifiers will no doubt please some readers while many others will judge them to be glib exercises. " ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 6, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my business, at least on the odd days of the week. > > Best, > Jerry > > On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant get what the fuss is about. >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri May 6 11:14:12 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:14:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: _Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books you liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful contributions to this thread)... c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM, wrote: > Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I needed > to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are sure > will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and > while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that > year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the > fuss about?" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have > misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to > me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then > I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very > good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a > certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over > quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the > niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The > fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to > do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological > nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I > read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it > on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try > not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my > business, at least on the odd days of the week. > > Best, > Jerry > > On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and > ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant > get what the fuss is about. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then > her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away > my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise > Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). > Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, > first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some > great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance > Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way > ahead of me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: > > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay > attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for > the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From chris at chrislott.org Fri May 6 11:22:34 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 07:22:34 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? /Terrance Hayes In-Reply-To: <270C8005-56AA-42CB-9990-3AAABFAB6730@ripon.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> <270C8005-56AA-42CB-9990-3AAABFAB6730@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Interesting. On the one hand, I think I get what you are saying w/r/t lack of a "unified or unifying voice," but on the other hand I find Hayes' work in _Wind in a Box_ instantly recognizable, as I do most of his poetry when I come across it. I guess it feels unified to me, maybe just not through whatever you are referring to as "voice." Lack of such unity, in any case, doesn't generally bother me. There's not much of a cryptic nature in _Lighthead_, which you may see as an improvement. c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:04 AM, David Graham wrote: > I reviewed Hayes's previous book, *Wind in a Box*, for American Book Review, > but haven't gotten around to *Lighthead* yet. ?I'll be interested to see > what direction Hayes has moved in since then. ?Though my review was largely > favorable, I did have some reservations about what he was up to in *Wind*. > For what it's worth, I'll quote a bit from myself, a few passages where I > outline what made me a bit uneasy about *Wind in a Box* as a whole, focusing > on the series of title poems in the collection : > > "After reading a half dozen of these intriguing but cryptic pieces, it is > fair to conclude that Hayes has taken us to a variety of imaginary cities > without fully imagining them for us.? Of course, wind in a box is an apt > image for any number of tensions or binaries (flux and stasis, natural and > artificial, created and uncreated, defined and indefinable); but a metaphor > that can mean almost anything risks meaning nearly nothing.? It is a risk > that Hayes, for good or ill, embraces with gusto.?? Ultimately, the question > of coherence in both book and title sequence is addressed by Hayes himself > in a gesture reminiscent of Whitman's many declarations of his own > elusiveness: > > > > ??????????? These words want to answer your questions. > > ??????????? These words want to stave off your suffering, > > ??????????? but cannot.? I leave them to you.?? ("Wind in a Box" 81) > > > > Not surprisingly, Hayes takes as one of his epigraphs Whitman's most > presciently postmodern boast ("I am large, I contain multitudes") and Wind > in a Box is itself a thoroughly postmodern production, the expression not of > a unified, unifying voice so much as a chorus of contending voices, always > insistently self-conscious, skittery, performative. > > That Hayes is fertile in invention and frisky in formal experimentation is > certainly admirable.? For many readers, however, some of Hayes's experiments > will inevitably fall a bit flat.? "Imaginary Poems for the Old-Fashioned > Future," for instance, consists of twelve disconnected but numbered items of > prose, each one noting a poem or poems the speaker might write in the > future.? Number four reads, in its entirety, "A poem by someone named Lester > Sea.? Someone named Lenore.? Headline sonnets maybe.? Titles ripped from the > annals of jazz bebop, no doubt" (83).? Number twelve announces but does not > supply "A tercet rhyming bric-a-brac, brick a black, and poppa bag" (84). > This sort of play among signifiers will no doubt please some readers while > many others will judge them to be glib exercises.?" > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On May 6, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have > misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to > me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then > I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very > good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a > certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over > quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the > niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The > fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to > do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological > nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I > read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it > on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try > not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my > business, at least on the odd days of the week. > > Best, > Jerry > > On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and > ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant > get what the fuss is about. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Fri May 6 11:23:03 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:23:03 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than Message-ID: <24107237.1304695383744.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Chris, everybody: could we change the subject header to just plain "Summer Reading?" We really don't need a reminder of the recent umpleasantness. Thanks. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: May 6, 2011 11:14 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) > >_Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books >you liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful >contributions to this thread)... > >c > >On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM, wrote: >> Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I needed >> to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are sure >> will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and >> while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that >> year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the >> fuss about?" >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have >> misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to >> me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then >> I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very >> good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a >> certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over >> quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the >> niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The >> fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to >> do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological >> nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I >> read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it >> on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try >> not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my >> business, at least on the odd days of the week. >> >> Best, >> Jerry >> >> On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and >> ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant >> get what the fuss is about. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then >> her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away >> my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise >> Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). >> Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, >> first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some >> great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance >> Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way >> ahead of me. >> >> Jerry >> >> On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: >> >> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay >> attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for >> the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? >> >> Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! >> Amy >> >> ********* >> VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >> +?Interviews >> Amy's Alias >> +?http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri May 6 11:28:01 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:28:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC41381.5090204@louisiana.edu> I think that Palmer is just good, has long proved himself good, very, so whatever he writes will likely have some goodness in it. But having said that, "Construction of the Museum" seemed a little mechanical--even stilted--not just in its ending, but here and there throughout the poem. I thought "In the hole caused by bombs / which are smart we might find a hand // It is the writing hand / hand which dreams a hole" not to live up to his best writing. There's a coyness in "bombs / which are smart" and "hand which dreams a hole," and the repetition of "hand" (to my hear) feels kind of precious. I'm loath to yank a poem into pieces just for the pleasure of condemning it--I'd rather leave it alone for people who might enjoy it. But in this case there's (for me) some little suggestion that Palmer has lapsed into a couple of stylistic primitivisms here because the language in some sort reflects (in a contorted, "poetic" way) the perspective of a soldier (in 1995 that would have been the Persian Gulf war, right?); and feels just a bit patronizing--again, to my ear. It's not the crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but something subtler and (consequently) worse. I guess I like my Palmer more abstracted, out there where (instead of just talking about it) the words really do just make noise writing themselves. Jerry On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those > last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to > overtly toward the act of writing, toward calling attention to words, > which is already admirably imbedded in various other places. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:18 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > Construction of the Museum > > In the hole we found beside the road > something would eventually go > > Names we saw spelled backward there > > In the sand we found a tablet > > In the hole caused by bombs > which are smart we might find a hand > > It is the writing hand > hand which dreams a hole > > to the left and the right of each hand > > The hand is called day-inside-night > because of the colored fragments which it holds > > We never say the word desert > nor does the sand pass through the fingers > > of this hand we forget > is ours > > We might say, Memory has made its selection, > and think of the body now as an altered body > > framed by flaming wells or walls > > What a noise the words make > writing themselves > > --Michael Palmer > > in /At Passages/ > [New York: New Directions, 1995] > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > --John Ashbery > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, > wrote: > > Carol, > what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer > assume/presume that the reader needed guidance in terms of full > participation? > Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to > have to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has > found his/her way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just > stumble onto such poets. > There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though > each element is disparate, they > psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ > thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, > engaging the reader's attention. > > If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is > possible, given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has > come form one mind) one is left unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. > Perhaps a few coruscations of well-rendered images or resonations > of rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, but that's the sum of > the experience. Which isn't much, or much to expect from the reading. > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: carol dorf > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the > beginning of the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what > we read as fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the necessity > of full participation in that project. > > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri May 6 11:31:23 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Last year? ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad novelist) THE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber PAPER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers WINTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns THE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride THE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley VIVISECT by Lisa Lewis That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could come up with several others. But all of these were books published last year that I spent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:18 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) _Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books you liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful contributions to this thread)... c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM, wrote: > Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I needed > to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are sure > will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and > while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that > year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the > fuss about?" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to have > misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to > me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six months--then > I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very > good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a > certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating over > quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the > niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The > fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to > do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or ideological > nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I > read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it > on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try > not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my > business, at least on the odd days of the week. > > Best, > Jerry > > On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated and > ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant > get what the fuss is about. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) then > her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away > my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) Denise > Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). > Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at least, > first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some > great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance > Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, way > ahead of me. > > Jerry > > On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: > > Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay > attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for > the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? > > Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri May 6 11:46:07 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:46:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9426B365211D1D468416FFC229EA831828C506@thorium.ripon.college> So far, 2011 is looking like it'll be a good year for new poetry. Currently awaiting me on my "is it summer yet?" shelf are these 2011 titles, most of which I've already dipped into, but not yet given a thorough read: William Trowbridge, The Book of Fool David Kirby, Talking about Movies with Jesus Ron Padgett, How Long Arthur Vogelsang, Expedition: New & Selected Poems Dorianne Laux, The Book of Men Steve Kistulentz, The Luckless Age Dean Young Fall Higher and one from 2010: Joanna Solfrian, Visible Heavens and the previously mentioned: Martha Silano, Little Office of the Immaculate Conception and I guess pretty soon I'll have to hunt up Terrance Hayes's new one.... ================================ Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================== -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Fri 5/6/2011 10:31 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) Last year? ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad novelist) THE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber PAPER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers WINTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns THE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride THE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley VIVISECT by Lisa Lewis That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could come up with several others. But all of these were books published last year that I spent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3935 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Fri May 6 11:58:02 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:58:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Greek Theatre Museum Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yiorgos Chouliaras Date: 2011/5/6 Subject: PETITION DUE TO EXTREMELY HARSH AUSTERITY MEASURES, THE PRESENT GREEK GOVERNMENT, THE FINANCE MINISTER AND THE MINISTER OF CULTURE HAVE DECIDED TO CLOSE THE GREEK THEATRE MUSEUM WHICH HOUSES NOT ONLY THE HISTORY OF THE GREEK THEATRE, BUT IRREPLACEABLE AND UNIQUE HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS -- THEATRE PROGRAMS, ARTIFACTS, COSTUMES, PICTURES, TEXTS, ETC. THE THEATRE COMMUNITY IN GREECE AND WORLD-WIDE MUST NOT PERMIT THIS. IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE SHOW YOUR PERSONAL SUPPORT BY SIGNING THE PETITION ON THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE. IT APPEARS FIRST IN GREEK AND THEN IN ENGLISH. THANK YOU. http://theatremuseum.blogspot.com/ Against cultural disintegration! S?amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain From almaginnes at aol.com Fri May 6 12:06:44 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 12:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading In-Reply-To: <1273619573.10468.1304697919123.JavaMail.zimbra@core-dkd001.r1000.mail.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <1273619573.10468.1304697919123.JavaMail.zimbra@core-dkd001.r1000.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDA1EBA4FEB89-1FAC-1839F@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> I'd also recommend THE BOOK OF TEN by Susan Wood and David Wojahn's new one WORLD TREE. Saw Dorianne read from The Book of Men the other day but I only half-heard her because I had my four year old with me. She's a great kid but not much of a poetry audience. -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:46 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading So far, 2011 is looking like it'll be a good year for new poetry. Currently awaiting me on my "is it summer yet?" shelf are these 2011 titles, most of which I've already dipped into, but not yet given a thorough read: William Trowbridge, The Book of Fool David Kirby, Talking about Movies with Jesus Ron Padgett, How Long Arthur Vogelsang, Expedition: New & Selected Poems Dorianne Laux, The Book of Men Steve Kistulentz, The Luckless Age Dean Young Fall Higher and one from 2010: Joanna Solfrian, Visible Heavens and the previously mentioned: Martha Silano, Little Office of the Immaculate Conception and I guess pretty soon I'll have to hunt up Terrance Hayes's new one.... ================================ Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================== -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Fri 5/6/2011 10:31 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) Last year? ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad novelist) THE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber PAPER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers WINTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns THE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride THE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley VIVISECT by Lisa Lewis That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could come up with several others. But all of these were books published last year that I spent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri May 6 12:09:43 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 09:09:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bob-List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33997696-5E3F-4DB0-91D6-883950047535@verizon.net> Dear Brother & Sister Sufferers: Recent concern about domination-by-Bob seems close to a finish now, but perhaps a late toot might be found acceptable? (If I start with a wary sound it's due to having once been more or less dispatched to list- exile for Aunty-Bob posts). I speak up now from quasi-lurkism because one aspect of being-Bobbed feels to me undernoted in the thread, namely the Big Lie technique of rampant repetition, the sense of a hectoring going on in the service of self-promotion. I yield to no one in teasing resistance to being "wilshed," in hatred of Procrustean boxes, of being brutalized by definition and so on, but what gets my Aunti-Bob up is the sense that he won't stop till someone gives him a prize; that we're trapped attending to an unvaried advertisement. I salute Amy and others for their efforts to broaden the counter attack but I believe its hopeless. One might as effectively plead to advertisers or politicos on TV that you've heard their message sufficiently already, so please leave a bit of airwave for others to breathe. I should add that Bob himself, back-channel, is perfectly affable when off his grievance of self-neglect. Get him beyond unrelenting "wilshiness" and "no one loves me and mine" and friendship blooms, with its attendant concern and respect. The crux, I feel, is not even the battering, it's the feeling of an artistic political campaign the repetition serves. In short, not just wilsh is objectionable; it's the unrelenting "vote for me" I find mind-numbing in the Bobosphere (maybe counter-coinage-ing might be the sought 4th way against the machine? -- nah, hopeless). I pray I may be pardoned for the length of this lurker-post...and for its repetitiveness. warm humanistic thoughts to all, Barry From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 12:10:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 12:10:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading In-Reply-To: <8CDDA1EBA4FEB89-1FAC-1839F@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><1273619573.10468.1304697919123.JavaMail.zimbra@core-dkd001.r1000.mail.aol.com> <8CDDA1EBA4FEB89-1FAC-1839F@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDA1F32D5422F-1774-18FFF@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Interesting titling trend spotted: The Book of Fool, Trowbridge The Book of Men, Laux and... THE BOOK OF TEN by Susan Wood and David Wojahn's new one WORLD TREE -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading I'd also recommend THE BOOK OF TEN by Susan Wood and David Wojahn's new one WORLD TREE. Saw Dorianne read from The Book of Men the other day but I only half-heard her because I had my four year old with me. She's a great kid but not much of a poetry audience. -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:46 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading So far, 2011 is looking like it'll be a good year for new poetry. Currently waiting me on my "is it summer yet?" shelf are these 2011 titles, most of which 've already dipped into, but not yet given a thorough read: William Trowbridge, The Book of Fool avid Kirby, Talking about Movies with Jesus on Padgett, How Long rthur Vogelsang, Expedition: New & Selected Poems orianne Laux, The Book of Men teve Kistulentz, The Luckless Age ean Young Fall Higher and one from 2010: oanna Solfrian, Visible Heavens and the previously mentioned: artha Silano, Little Office of the Immaculate Conception and I guess pretty soon I'll have to hunt up Terrance Hayes's new one.... ================================ ome page: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html =================================== ----Original Message----- rom: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of almaginnes at aol.com ent: Fri 5/6/2011 10:31 AM o: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ubject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " ls?) ast year? ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad novelist) HE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber APER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers INTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns HE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride HE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant EAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley IVISECT by Lisa Lewis That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could come up ith several others. But all of these were books published last year that I pent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 13:17:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 12:17:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.4 0807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC42D25.6090506@nut-n-but.net> On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those > last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to > overtly toward the act of writing, toward calling attention to words, > which is already admirably imbedded in various other places. > Finnegan > Seems to me last two lines shift the attention to the idea of words writing words which is nowhere else suggested. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 12:19:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 12:19:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC42D25.6090506@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com><8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC42D25.6090506@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDDA2075E2E528-1774-192B5@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Even so, wouldn't that be a little late in the game to be asserting such a notion. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 1:17 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to overtly toward the act of writing, toward calling attention to words, which is already admirably imbedded in various other places. Finnegan Seems to me last two lines shift the attention to the idea of words writing words which is nowhere else suggested. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 6 12:24:39 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? Message-ID: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Stuck in a meeting but wanted to thank all for these recommendations, esp those that included excerpts to tempt further - very helpful / intriguing! I'm saving these emails and my list is growing - I'm sure I'm not alone... Cheers, Amy From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 6 12:25:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 12:25:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDA215322ADB4-1774-19551@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> A year ago?...well, it's a 'classic' and 'old hat' then by contemporary standards. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott _Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books ou liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful ontributions to this thread)... c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 6 12:21:56 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:21:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nifty typo du jour Message-ID: <1231D7EC-A576-49F1-915B-40BF39906A9F@ripon.edu> "Spoken work poetry" ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 6 12:32:56 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:32:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1D0B773B-56E2-46B3-9CAE-571E881B697A@ripon.edu> Lately in my before-bed reading I've been re-visiting Rexroth's translations from classical Chinese & Japanese poets. Don't know anything about the accuracy of his versions, but the poems in his hands are wonderfully limpid, with all the art-that-hides-art you could want. And of course Rexroth always paid attention to women poets in his translations, even if he did insist on calling them "poetesses," a term whose rehabilitation Annie Finch hasn't quite accomplished, to my way of thinking. Currently in heavy rotation: *Love & The Turning Year: 100 More Poems from the Chinese*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 6, 2011, at 11:24 AM, amy king wrote: > Stuck in a meeting but wanted to thank all for these recommendations, esp those that included excerpts to tempt further - very helpful / intriguing! I'm saving these emails and my list is growing - I'm sure I'm not alone... > > Cheers, > > Amy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chris at chrislott.org Fri May 6 12:34:20 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:34:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: <8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: When you said "that year" I started wondering if _Lighthead_ had come out earlier than I recalled. Thanks for the suggestions. I was disappointed in the Dobyns, though I remain a fan, and haven't read the others. c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:31 AM, wrote: > Last year? > > ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad > novelist) > THE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber > PAPER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers > WINTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns > THE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride > THE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant > BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley > VIVISECT by Lisa Lewis > > That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could > come up with several others. But all of these were books published last year > that I spent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:18 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > > _Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books > you liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful > contributions to this thread)... > > c > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM, wrote: >> Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I >> needed >> to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are >> sure >> will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and >> while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that >> year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the >> fuss about?" >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to >> have >> misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to >> me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six >> months--then >> I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very >> good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a >> certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating >> over >> quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the >> niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The >> fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to >> do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or >> ideological >> nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I >> read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it >> on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try >> not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my >> business, at least on the odd days of the week. >> >> Best, >> Jerry >> >> On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated >> and >> ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant >> get what the fuss is about. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) >> then >> her new one, _Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away >> my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) >> Denise >> Duhamel's _Mille et un sentiments_ (which is _not_ written in French). >> Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant _Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at >> least, >> first posthumous) book, _On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some >> great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance >> Hayes's _Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, >> way >> ahead of me. >> >> Jerry >> >> On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: >> >> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay >> attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry >> for >> the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? >> >> Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much >> appreciated! >> Amy >> >> ********* >> VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >> +?Interviews >> Amy's Alias >> +?http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From almaginnes at aol.com Fri May 6 12:43:26 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:43:26 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) In-Reply-To: References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net><713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC32F7A.4080201@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0C3013C7EC-1FAC-13E15@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><4DC40B72.7040401@louisiana.edu><8CDDA1526409979-1FAC-15BF8@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com><8CDDA19C7D60B35-1FAC-16E01@webmail-m131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1049707504-1304700209-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-552671949-@bda2910.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I kind of liked the longwindedness of them. Graber, Buckley and Rogers are all excellent. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:34:20 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The Dominator, " pls?) When you said "that year" I started wondering if_Lighthead_ had come out earlier than I recalled. Thanks for the suggestions. I was disappointed in the Dobyns, though I remain a fan, and haven't read the others. c On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:31 AM, wrote: > Last year? > > ROLLING THE BONES by Christopher Buckley (the good poet, not the bad > novelist) > THE ETERNAL CITY by Kathleen Graber > PAPER ANNIVERSARY by Bobby C. Rogers > WINTER'S JOURNEY by Stephen Dobyns > THE MANAGEABLE COLD by Timothy McBride > THE CIRCUS POEMS by Alex Grant > BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY byRObert Wrigley > VIVISECT by Lisa Lewis > > That's just off the top of my head. Let me scan my bookshelf and I could > come up with several others. But all of these were books published last year > that I spent time with, carried around in my book bag etc. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:18 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The > Dominator, " pls?) > >_Lighthead_ was released last year, right? What are some of the books > you liked better (since it seems those titles would be useful > contributions to this thread)... > > c > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM, wrote: >> Perhaps my expectations were inflated. Three or four people told me I >> needed >> to read this book in the way people urge you to read something they are >> sure >> will change your life. I bought it and read it, then read it again, and >> while I didn't hate it, I certainly could name several books released that >> year that I liked better. Overall, my reaction was sort of "so, what's the >> fuss about?" >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:54 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> I'd forgotten about any prize(s) Lighthead might have won, and seem to >> have >> misplaced the damn thing, so can't refer to it now. Somehow it got sent to >> me when it came out and sat, covered with other books, for six >> months--then >> I read it last week and was kind of surprised to find myself feeling very >> good about its rhythms and play of personality and subject. I did notice a >> certain pattern of what felt like deflection-and-recentering repeating >> over >> quite a few of the poems I read, but it didn't bother me except in the >> niggling, caught-you way poets sometimes let themselves be bothered. The >> fact is, though, that I wasn't specially analytical about it--I try not to >> do that on a first read, unless a book's clumsiness or vanity or >> ideological >> nastiness forces me back into the impulse to tear things apart. So no, I >> read it with a kind of surprised interest and pleasure, and recommended it >> on that basis. I honestly don't know about how anyone else rates it--I try >> not to let those kinds of things interfere with either my pleasure or my >> business, at least on the odd days of the week. >> >> Best, >> Jerry >> >> On 5/6/2011 8:54 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> Am I the only one in the universe who found Hayes's Lighthead overrated >> and >> ,um, somewhat light? I've read it a couple of times now and honestly cant >> get what the fuss is about. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry McGuire >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 10:54 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? (Someone other than "The >> Dominator, " pls?) >> >> Any of Lesle Lewis's books, if you haven't read her, and (if you have) >> then >> her new one,_Lie Down Too_ (sorry I don't have a sample--I just gave away >> my copy to a friend to review). Also (though you've probably read it) >> Denise >> Duhamel's_Mille et un sentiments_ (which is_not_ written in French). >> Geraldine Kim's goofy-brilliant_Povel_. Robert Creeley's last (or at >> least, >> first posthumous) book,_On Earth._ And if you decide to switch to some >> great prose and haven't read her, any of Kate Bernheimer's books. Terrance >> Hayes's_Lighthead._ If you've already read all those, you're way, way, >> way >> ahead of me. >> >> Jerry >> >> On 5/5/2011 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: >> >> Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay >> attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry >> for >> the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)? >> >> Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much >> appreciated! >> Amy >> >> ********* >> VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >> +?Interviews >> Amy's Alias >> +?http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >>_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >>_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >_______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Fri May 6 13:15:50 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:15:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? Message-ID: <11844178.1304702150617.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Other cultures: Mervyn Taylor (Trinidad), No Back Door Maria Baranda (Mexico) Nadie, los ojos, and Arcadia Valerie Mejer (Argentina), De la ola, el atajo Andres Fisher (Argentina), Series: poesia reunida Bibiana Padilla Maltos (Mexico), Mini poemas Rocio Ceron (Mexico), Tiento Jesus Barquet (Cuba), Sin fecha de extincion This culture, women: Anna Moschovakis, You and Three Others Are Approaching a Lake Diane Wakoski, The Diamond Dog Rochelle Owens, Solitary Workwoman and an older book (2004) that I've been looking at again, Sherry Brennan's massive (600+ pages) Of Poems and Their Antecedents Best, Mark From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 6 13:18:40 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 12:18:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Does that mean cover-to-cover reading (I don't even remember the last time I did that)? If not, one of the books I have on hand for dipping into (again and again and again ) is Besmilr Brigham's *Heaved from the Earth*. [New York: Knopf, 1971] "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:24 AM, amy king wrote: > Stuck in a meeting but wanted to thank all for these recommendations, esp > those that included excerpts to tempt further - very helpful / intriguing! > I'm saving these emails and my list is growing - I'm sure I'm not alone... > > Cheers, > > Amy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri May 6 13:50:24 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:50:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nearly everybody is a different ethnicity, gender and nationality from me. Most recently I read Karin Gottshall's chapbook FLOOD LETTERS, three times. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri May 6 13:56:49 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:56:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bob-List In-Reply-To: <33997696-5E3F-4DB0-91D6-883950047535@verizon.net> References: <33997696-5E3F-4DB0-91D6-883950047535@verizon.net> Message-ID: I'm thinking maybe we should lock him in a cage with Marcus Bales and see who survives. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > Dear Brother & Sister Sufferers: > > Recent concern about domination-by-Bob seems > close to a finish now, but perhaps a late toot > might be found acceptable? > > (If I start with a wary sound it's due to having once been > more or less dispatched to list- exile for Aunty-Bob posts). > > I speak up now from quasi-lurkism because one aspect of > being-Bobbed feels to me undernoted in the thread, > namely the Big Lie technique of rampant repetition, the > sense of a hectoring going on in the service of self-promotion. > > I yield to no one in teasing resistance to being "wilshed," > in hatred of Procrustean boxes, of being brutalized by definition > and so on, but what gets my Aunti-Bob up is the sense > that he won't stop till someone gives him a prize; > that we're trapped attending to an unvaried advertisement. > > I salute Amy and others for their efforts to broaden the > counter attack but I believe its hopeless. One might as > effectively plead to advertisers or politicos on TV that > you've heard their message sufficiently already, so please > leave a bit of airwave for others to breathe. > > I should add that Bob himself, back-channel, is > perfectly affable when off his grievance of self-neglect. > Get him beyond unrelenting "wilshiness" and > "no one loves me and mine" and friendship blooms, > with its attendant concern and respect. > > The crux, I feel, is not even the battering, it's > the feeling of an artistic political campaign > the repetition serves. > > In short, not just wilsh is objectionable; it's the > unrelenting "vote for me" I find mind-numbing in > the Bobosphere (maybe counter-coinage-ing > might be the sought 4th way against the machine? > -- nah, hopeless). > > I pray I may be pardoned for the length of this > lurker-post...and for its repetitiveness. > > warm humanistic thoughts to all, > > Barry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri May 6 14:16:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC41381.5090204@louisiana.edu> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC41381.5090204@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <161327.89385.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> but I love the way these lines move: It is the writing hand hand which dreams a hole to the left and the right of each hand The hand is called day-inside-night because of the colored fragments which it holds ************************************************ I didn't detect a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb?language. The tone of the poem seems, if anything, ?unusually casual. I guess we agree on the last two lines ... although others seem to think that they focus too much on the act of writing ... also, the repitition of the words hands, holds, and hole add to the poems power. ********************** What a noise the words make writing themselves ************************ ... a beautiful closing because words can be explosive. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:28:01 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun I think that Palmer is just good, has long proved himself good, very, so whatever he writes will likely have some goodness in it. But having said that, "Construction of the Museum" seemed a little mechanical--even stilted--not just in its ending, but here and there throughout the poem. I thought "In the hole caused by bombs / which are smart we might find a hand // It is the writing hand / hand which dreams a hole" not to live up to his best writing. There's a coyness in "bombs / which are smart" and "hand which dreams a hole," and the repetition of "hand" (to my hear) feels kind of precious. I'm loath to yank a poem into pieces just for the pleasure of condemning it--I'd rather leave it alone for people who might enjoy it. But in this case there's (for me) some little suggestion that Palmer has lapsed into a couple of stylistic primitivisms here because the language in some sort reflects (in a contorted, "poetic" way) the perspective of a soldier (in 1995 that would have been the Persian Gulf war, right?); and feels just a bit patronizing--again, to my ear. It's not the crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but something subtler and (consequently) worse. I guess I like my Palmer more abstracted, out there where (instead of just talking about it) the words really do just make noise writing themselves. Jerry On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to overtly toward the act of?writing, toward calling attention to words, which is already admirably imbedded?in various other places. >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Halvard Johnson >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:18 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > >Construction of the Museum > >In the hole we found beside the road >something would eventually go > >Names we saw spelled backward there > >In the sand we found a tablet > >In the hole caused by bombs >which are smart we might find a hand > >It is the writing hand >hand which dreams a hole > >to the left and the right of each hand > >The hand is called day-inside-night >because of the colored fragments which it holds > >We never say the word desert >nor does the sand pass through the fingers > >of this hand we forget >is ours > >We might say, Memory has made its selection, >and think of the body now as an altered body > >framed by flaming wells or walls > >What a noise the words make >writing themselves > >--Michael Palmer > >in?At Passages >[New York: New Directions, 1995] > >? ?? > > >"We aren't meaning that any more." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?--John Ashbery > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, wrote: > >Carol, >>what you say partly makes sense. But why would?Palmer assume/presume that?the >>reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? >>Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have to?attend >>on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her way to Michael >>Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. >> >>There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each element is >>disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ >>thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the >>reader's attention. >> >> >>If the fragments fall out in?complete randomness (if that is possible, given the >>poem, if it's not a?collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) one is left >>unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations >>of?well-rendered?images or resonations of?rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, >>but that's?the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, or much to expect from >>the reading. >>Finnegan >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: carol dorf >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> >>The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of the >>book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as fragmentary, and >>sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation in that project. >> >>Carol >>talkingwriting.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri May 6 14:21:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? In-Reply-To: <600AF4BB-9AEB-431F-93CF-1F20E1E9D6EC@ripon.edu> References: <4DC317CE.7040505@nut-n-but.net> <713171.96772.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <600AF4BB-9AEB-431F-93CF-1F20E1E9D6EC@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <591870.19165.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Little Office of the Immaculate Conception.? Saturnalia Books, 2011. What a title. & thank you for the poem. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 6:00:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Summer Reading? I'm supposed to be reviewing Martha Silano's new collection, *Little Office of the Immaculate Conception*, from Saturnalia Books. ?Haven't technically started writing the piece, but it's one of the books I most look forward to spending time with this summer. One sample poem pasted below. And for more links 'n' such, here is her blog: http://bluepositive.blogspot.com/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 5, 2011, at 4:45 PM, amy king wrote: Lost in the halls of this semester's throngs, I haven't had time to pay attention to the latest -- can folks recommend any worthwhile new poetry for the beach (actually, a lake-side if I can find one)?? > > > >Links and sample poems, along with your opinions, would be much appreciated! > > >Amy > > > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > After Reading There Might Be an Infinite Number of Dimensions by Martha Silano I'm thinking today of how we hold it together, arrive on time with the bottle of Zinfandel, a six-pack of Scuttlebutt beer, how we cover our wrinkles with Visible Lift, shove the mashed winter squash into the baby's mouth, how we hold it all together despite clogged rain gutters, cracked transmissions, a new explanation for gravity's half-hearted hold. I'm wondering how we do it, comb the tangles from our hair, trim the unwieldy camellia, speak to packed crowds about weight loss or fractals. I'm wondering how we don't fall to our knees, knowing a hardened pea, lodged in the throat, can kill, knowing liquids are banned on all commercial flights. Leaves fall. The baby sucks her middle fingers. Meanwhile, the refrigerator acquires an unexplainable leak. Meanwhile, we call the plumber, open wide for the dental hygienist, check each month, with tentative circlings, our aging breasts. Somehow, each morning, the coffee gets made. Somehow, each evening, the crossing guard lifts fluorescent orange flag, and a child and her father cross the glistening street. "After Reading There Might Be an Infinite Number of Dimensions" by Martha Silano, from The Little Office of the Immaculate Conception.? Saturnalia Books, 2011. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri May 6 14:37:01 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:37:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bob-List Message-ID: <26624320.1304707022251.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri May 6 14:37:56 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 13:37:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <161327.89385.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC41381.5090204@louisiana.edu> <161327.89385.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC44004.6070503@louisiana.edu> Sorry: to be clear, I wrote, "It's not the crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but something subtler and (consequently) worse." Otherwise, as to readings of poems, let 8 billion flowers bloom. Jerry On 5/6/2011 1:16 PM, stephen russell wrote: > but I love the way these lines move: > It is the writing hand > hand which dreams a hole > > to the left and the right of each hand > > The hand is called day-inside-night > because of the colored fragments which it holds > ************************************************ > I didn't detect a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language. The > tone of the poem seems, if anything, unusually casual. > I guess we agree on the last two lines ... although others seem to > think that they focus too much on the act of writing ... also, the > repitition of the words hands, holds, and hole add to the poems power. > ********************** > What a noise the words make > writing themselves > ************************ > ... a beautiful closing because words can be explosive. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Jerry McGuire > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, May 6, 2011 11:28:01 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > > I think that Palmer is just good, has long proved himself good, very, > so whatever he writes will likely have some goodness in it. But having > said that, "Construction of the Museum" seemed a little > mechanical--even stilted--not just in its ending, but here and there > throughout the poem. I thought "In the hole caused by bombs / which > are smart we might find a hand // It is the writing hand / hand which > dreams a hole" not to live up to his best writing. There's a coyness > in "bombs / which are smart" and "hand which dreams a hole," and the > repetition of "hand" (to my hear) feels kind of precious. I'm loath to > yank a poem into pieces just for the pleasure of condemning it--I'd > rather leave it alone for people who might enjoy it. But in this case > there's (for me) some little suggestion that Palmer has lapsed into a > couple of stylistic primitivisms here because the language in some > sort reflects (in a contorted, "poetic" way) the perspective of a > soldier (in 1995 that would have been the Persian Gulf war, right?); > and feels just a bit patronizing--again, to my ear. It's not the > crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but > something subtler and (consequently) worse. I guess I like my Palmer > more abstracted, out there where (instead of just talking about it) > the words really do just make noise writing themselves. > > Jerry > > On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch >> those last two lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit >> to overtly toward the act of writing, toward calling attention to >> words, which is already admirably imbedded in various other places. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:18 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> Construction of the Museum >> >> In the hole we found beside the road >> something would eventually go >> >> Names we saw spelled backward there >> >> In the sand we found a tablet >> >> In the hole caused by bombs >> which are smart we might find a hand >> >> It is the writing hand >> hand which dreams a hole >> >> to the left and the right of each hand >> >> The hand is called day-inside-night >> because of the colored fragments which it holds >> >> We never say the word desert >> nor does the sand pass through the fingers >> >> of this hand we forget >> is ours >> >> We might say, Memory has made its selection, >> and think of the body now as an altered body >> >> framed by flaming wells or walls >> >> What a noise the words make >> writing themselves >> >> --Michael Palmer >> >> in /At Passages/ >> [New York: New Directions, 1995] >> >> "We aren't meaning that any more." >> --John Ashbery >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> /Mainly Black >> , >> //Obras P?blicas >> ; >> //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;/ >> /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; >> //Tango Bouquet >> ; >> //Theory of Harmony >> ; >> / >> /Rapsodie espagnole >> ; >> //Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; >> //The Sonnet Project >> ; >> / >> /G(e)nome ; >> //Winter Journey ; >> ////Eclipse ; ////The >> Dance of the Red Swan ;/ >> /Transparencies & Projections >> / >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, > > wrote: >> >> Carol, >> what you say partly makes sense. But why would Palmer >> assume/presume that the reader needed guidance in terms of full >> participation? >> Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to >> have to attend on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has >> found his/her way to Michael Palmer. Most readers don't just >> stumble onto such poets. >> There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though >> each element is disparate, they >> psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ >> thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, >> engaging the reader's attention. >> >> If the fragments fall out in complete randomness (if that is >> possible, given the poem, if it's not a collaboration/cento, has >> come form one mind) one is left unaffected, unmoved, >> underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations of well-rendered images >> or resonations of rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, but >> that's the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, or much to >> expect from the reading. >> Finnegan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: carol dorf > >> To: NewPoetry List > > >> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the >> beginning of the book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect >> what we read as fragmentary, and sets the reader up for the >> necessity of full participation in that project. >> >> Carol >> talkingwriting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri May 6 14:45:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun In-Reply-To: <4DC44004.6070503@louisiana.edu> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA0D782DE049-1774-15B12@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDA13E68BD4BB-1774-16B7D@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC41381.5090204@louisiana.edu> <161327.89385.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC44004.6070503@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <374949.30562.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> problem with skimming quickly//// i tend to miss crucial words. in this case, the word not. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 2:37:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun Sorry: to be clear, I wrote, "It's not the crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but something subtler and (consequently) worse." Otherwise, as to readings of poems, let 8 billion flowers bloom. Jerry On 5/6/2011 1:16 PM, stephen russell wrote: but I love the way these lines move: > >It is the writing hand >hand which dreams a hole > >to the left and the right of each hand > >The hand is called day-inside-night >because of the colored fragments which it holds >************************************************ > >I didn't detect a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb?language. The tone of >the poem seems, if anything, ?unusually casual. >I guess we agree on the last two lines ... although others seem to think that >they focus too much on the act of writing ... also, the repitition of the words >hands, holds, and hole add to the poems power. > > >********************** >What a noise the words make >writing themselves > >************************ > >... a beautiful closing because words can be explosive. > > > > ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:28:01 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun > >I think that Palmer is just good, has long proved himself good, very, so >whatever he writes will likely have some goodness in it. But having said that, >"Construction of the Museum" seemed a little mechanical--even stilted--not just >in its ending, but here and there throughout the poem. I thought "In the hole >caused by bombs / which are smart we might find a hand // It is the writing hand >/ hand which dreams a hole" not to live up to his best writing. There's a >coyness in "bombs / which are smart" and "hand which dreams a hole," and the >repetition of "hand" (to my hear) feels kind of precious. I'm loath to yank a >poem into pieces just for the pleasure of condemning it--I'd rather leave it >alone for people who might enjoy it. But in this case there's (for me) some >little suggestion that Palmer has lapsed into a couple of stylistic primitivisms >here because the language in some sort reflects (in a contorted, "poetic" way) >the perspective of a soldier (in 1995 that would have been the Persian Gulf war, >right?); and feels just a bit patronizing--again, to my ear. It's not the >crudeness of a smart guy imitating a dumb guy's dumb language, but something >subtler and (consequently) worse. I guess I like my Palmer more abstracted, out >there where (instead of just talking about it) the words really do just make >noise writing themselves. > >Jerry > >On 5/6/2011 9:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >Thanks, Hal. That's a good one. I want to say Palmer could ditch those last two >lines without diminishment. They shift the poem a bit to overtly toward the act >of?writing, toward calling attention to words, which is already admirably >imbedded?in various other places. >>Finnegan >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Halvard Johnson >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 10:18 am >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >> >> >>Construction of the Museum >> >>In the hole we found beside the road >>something would eventually go >> >>Names we saw spelled backward there >> >>In the sand we found a tablet >> >>In the hole caused by bombs >>which are smart we might find a hand >> >>It is the writing hand >>hand which dreams a hole >> >>to the left and the right of each hand >> >>The hand is called day-inside-night >>because of the colored fragments which it holds >> >>We never say the word desert >>nor does the sand pass through the fingers >> >>of this hand we forget >>is ours >> >>We might say, Memory has made its selection, >>and think of the body now as an altered body >> >>framed by flaming wells or walls >> >>What a noise the words make >>writing themselves >> >>--Michael Palmer >> >>in?At Passages >>[New York: New Directions, 1995] >> >>? ?? >> >> >>"We aren't meaning that any more." >>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?--John Ashbery >> >> >>Hal >>Halvard Johnson >>================ >> >>halvard at gmail.com >>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >>http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >>http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> >> >>Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>Sonnets; >>Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >>Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >>G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> >> >>On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:03 AM, wrote: >> >>Carol, >>>what you say partly makes sense. But why would?Palmer assume/presume that?the >>>reader needed guidance in terms of full participation? >>>Isn't that a given? One opens a book of poems and one expects to have to?attend >>>on many levels. Especially a poetry reader who has found his/her way to Michael >>>Palmer. Most readers don't just stumble onto such poets. >>> >>>There are many kinds of fragmentary poems. In some, even though each element is >>>disparate, they psychologically/conceptually/philosophiically/ >>>thematically/politically align somehow, affecting the reader, engaging the >>>reader's attention. >>> >>> >>>If the fragments fall out in?complete randomness (if that is possible, given the >>>poem, if it's not a?collaboration/cento, has come form one mind) one is left >>>unaffected, unmoved, underwhelmed. Perhaps a few coruscations >>>of?well-rendered?images or resonations of?rhetoric linger as afterimages/echoes, >>>but that's?the sum of the experience. Which isn't much, or much to expect from >>>the reading. >>>Finnegan >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: carol dorf >>>To: NewPoetry List >>>Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 11:00 pm >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Palmer/Rilke/Sun >>> >>> >>>The title "Fifth Prose" and the placement of the poem at the beginning of the >>>book, gives us Palmer's intention to connect what we read as fragmentary, and >>>sets the reader up for the necessity of full participation in that project. >>> >>>Carol >>>talkingwriting.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 16:30:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 15:30:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> I came across it by chance: APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the beginning and end of the sampled time record. Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 6 15:35:14 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 21:35:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <613913.58464.qm@web1210.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <613913.58464.qm@web1210.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No, I do not have any problems, what I read usually makes sense. It might be me, then... On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Amanda Surkont wrote: > His posts usually end up in my spam folder with the replies properly going > to my inbox, so I have to search the spam folder for the original before I > read the reply. > > Not sure why that happens and even directing the mail program and adding > him to my "white mail list" did not help that; all his original posts still > end up in the spam folder, which may be happening to others...?? > > best, manda > > > --- On *Thu, 5/5/11, John Jeffrey * wrote: > > > From: John Jeffrey > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 4:51 PM > > > James, > > I've always received Bob's posts late. But only Bob's. In fact, I usually > get the responses to Bob's posts before I get Bob's original post. It's > odd. But I've gotten used to it. > > Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. I haven't assigned any reason > for it, though I'm sure it has something to do with his poetry. > > John > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? > > Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? > > Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple > days ago for me. > > Finnegan > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 6 15:37:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 21:37:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, I agree. I would like to add James' invaluable contribution with his Ars Poetica Library: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:24 PM, amy king wrote: > Stuck in a meeting but wanted to thank all for these recommendations, esp > those that included excerpts to tempt further - very helpful / intriguing! > I'm saving these emails and my list is growing - I'm sure I'm not alone... > > Cheers, > > Amy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 6 16:52:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 15:52:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: References: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><613913.58464.qm@web1210.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC45F85.90006@nut-n-but.net> On 5/6/2011 2:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > No, I do not have any problems, what I read usually makes sense. It > might be me, then... Anny, I think you may be taking Amanda's post the way I first did--which is that she was herself directing my posts to her spam folder. But apparently she's nuts enough to want actually to read them! They're going into her spam folder against her wishes. And Jeff Newberry says my conspiracy theory is delusional!!!! See what they're doing???!!! --Bob > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Amanda Surkont > wrote: > > His posts usually end up in my spam folder with the replies > properly going to my inbox, so I have to search the spam folder > for the original before I read the reply. > > Not sure why that happens and even directing the mail program and > adding him to my "white mail list" did not help that; all his > original posts still end up in the spam folder, which may be > happening to others...?? > > best, manda > > > --- On *Thu, 5/5/11, John Jeffrey / >/* wrote: > > > From: John Jeffrey > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? > To: "NewPoetry List" > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 4:51 PM > > > James, > > I've always received Bob's posts late. But only Bob's. In > fact, I usually get the responses to Bob's posts before I get > Bob's original post. It's odd. But I've gotten used to it. > > Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. I haven't > assigned any reason for it, though I'm sure it has something > to do with his poetry. > > John > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com " > > > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? > > Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? > Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it > seems to have started a couple days ago for me. > Finnegan > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri May 6 15:48:56 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 14:48:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DC450A8.9000706@louisiana.edu> Namingness is next to godliness! Actually, I prefer "foot-lopping" or even "depedimenting" to "apodization" (as that wonderful poet Fats Waller put it, "/your pedal extremities/ are colossal / To me you look just like a fossil") but clearly the tekkies got there first, so who's to argue? And where are the great historical and/or theoretical comparisons of all those (typically, but not exclusively) Latinate scientific and technical neologisms (a word that itself was no doubt a cool neologism at some time or other) with the (I'm being wishful here) groovier coinages (groove, coin--how'd they get into their nice dead-metaphor slots--or "dead" or "slot"? where's it end? [it doesn't]) of the poet-speaking world? Jerry On 5/6/2011 3:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I came across it by chance: > > APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the > technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an > electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. > An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast > Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the > beginning and end of the sampled time record. > > Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It > was once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect > because whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into > mathematics, i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also > want most of my terms though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a > difference between a certified subject like mathematics and the > theoretical psychology I try to link my terms to. I understandably (I > should think) don't think that's relevant. Why should someone be > discouraged from systematic naming of terms to fit interactingly into > a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Fri May 6 16:11:37 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <17382.86895.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Ah Bob, you would have been a great Adam. Then you could've named everything! "Ok, that's a tree! And that's a rock! And that's a bird-- No, wait. ALL those things are birds, but I'll call these particular birds chickadees. Better yet, Black-capped chickadees. Or, yes, Poecile atricapillus!!!" ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 4:30:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) I came across it by chance: APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the beginning and end of the sampled time record. Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:06:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:06:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "Apodization" has sound and rhythm way beyond most of your terms, Bob. Plus it is just a step on the road to iPodization, a process we're all familiar with. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I came across it by chance: > > APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the > technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an > electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. > An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast > Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the > beginning and end of the sampled time record. > > Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was > once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because > whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, > i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms > though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a > certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to > link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's > relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms > to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:08:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:08:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <17382.86895.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> <17382.86895.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If Bob had been Adam, we wouldn't have had'em. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:11 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Ah Bob, you would have been a great Adam. Then you could've named > everything! "Ok, that's a *tree*! And that's a *rock*! And that's a * > bird*-- No, wait. ALL those things are birds, but I'll call these > particular birds *chickadees*. Better yet, *Black-capped* chickadees. > Or, yes, *Poecile atricapillus*!!!" > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, May 6, 2011 4:30:31 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) > > I came across it by chance: > > APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the > technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an > electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. > An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast > Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the > beginning and end of the sampled time record. > > Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was > once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because > whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, > i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms > though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a > certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to > link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's > relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms > to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 6 23:55:40 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 05:55:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of interest to both the list and to James, I know he has been updating his superb work for a while. All the best, Anny * * * * * What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd request (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas Carper and Derek Attridge Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie Perloff The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and bombarding the person responsible for all this work smells totally unfair. Assuming you're not prepared simply to veto any further suggestions, is there some humane format you'd like people's pet poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms you at that thought, the list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who are about to hand in our grades salute you! Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat May 7 00:02:51 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 06:02:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? In-Reply-To: <4DC45F85.90006@nut-n-but.net> References: <848544.56150.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <613913.58464.qm@web1210.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4DC45F85.90006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: For Amanda's sake, no, I did understand what she wrote. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/6/2011 2:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > No, I do not have any problems, what I read usually makes sense. It might > be me, then... > > > Anny, I think you may be taking Amanda's post the way I first did--which is > that she was herself directing my posts to her spam folder. But apparently > she's nuts enough to want actually to read them! They're going into her > spam folder against her wishes. > > And Jeff Newberry says my conspiracy theory is delusional!!!! See what > they're doing???!!! > > --Bob > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Amanda Surkont wrote: > >> His posts usually end up in my spam folder with the replies properly >> going to my inbox, so I have to search the spam folder for the original >> before I read the reply. >> >> Not sure why that happens and even directing the mail program and adding >> him to my "white mail list" did not help that; all his original posts still >> end up in the spam folder, which may be happening to others...?? >> >> best, manda >> >> >> --- On *Thu, 5/5/11, John Jeffrey * wrote: >> >> >> From: John Jeffrey >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 4:51 PM >> >> >> James, >> >> I've always received Bob's posts late. But only Bob's. In fact, I >> usually get the responses to Bob's posts before I get Bob's original post. >> It's odd. But I've gotten used to it. >> >> Strange that it's just Bob's emails, though. I haven't assigned any >> reason for it, though I'm sure it has something to do with his poetry. >> >> John >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Thu, May 5, 2011 4:01:03 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] posts out of sequence? >> >> Anyone besides me getting their New-Poetry posts out of sequence? >> >> Perhaps it's an @aol.com problem. But it seems to have started a couple >> days ago for me. >> >> Finnegan >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat May 7 00:13:08 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 21:13:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Bin Ramke Theory of Mind On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of interest to > both the list and to James, I know he has been updating his superb work for > a while. All the best, > Anny > > * * * * * > > What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd request > (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: > > Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams > Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas Carper > and Derek Attridge > Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder > The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis > Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery > Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie Perloff > The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson > The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young > > I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and bombarding the > person responsible for all this work smells totally unfair. Assuming you're > not prepared simply to veto any further suggestions, is there some humane > format you'd like people's pet poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms > you at that thought, the list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who > are about to hand in our grades salute you! > > Jerry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat May 7 00:27:14 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 23:27:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> I know this is New Poetry and all, but I need help from someone with much wider reading in (I'm guessing) fin-de-siecle poetry than I've done. I'm looking for the poet who wrote (and possibly the correct title of) the poem spoken (by John Malkovich) at the end of Raul Ruiz's film, /Klimt. /If you search the web (unless your skills are better than mine) all you'll get are wifty re-postings of the same kind of wifty stuff (the poem itself is spectacularly wifty). The title they give is always the one given below, but I have no idea whether that's correct--I suspect it's pure proliferating simulacra. Anyway, here's the title and text I've got (I'm quite sure that "Namozine" below should actually be "Mnemosyne," but I don't detect any other real howlers); my only other clue--Klimt died in 1918, and Ruiz (who has written a fine book of short fiction and several very smart books about film) isn't the kind of guy to go all anachronistic at a point like this--or so I think. Anyone got a clue? Jerry "Drowning Swimmer's Dream" (Author unknown) Who art thou?, asked the guardian of the night. From crystal purity I come, was my reply, And great my thirst, Persephone. Yet heeding thy decree, I take to flight, And turn, and turn again, forever right. I spurn the pallid cypress tree, Seek no refreshment at its sylvan spring, But hasten on towards the rustling river- Of Namozine, wherein I drink to sweet satiety. And there, dipping my palms between The knots and loopings of its mazy stream, I see again, as in a drowning swimmer's dream, All the strange sights I ever saw, And even stranger sights no man has ever seen. On 5/6/2011 10:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of > interest to both the list and to James, I know he has been updating > his superb work for a while. All the best, > Anny > > * * * * * > > What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd request > (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: > > Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams > Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas > Carper and Derek Attridge > Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder > The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis > Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery > Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie Perloff > The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson > The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young > > I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and > bombarding the person responsible for all this work smells totally > unfair. Assuming you're not prepared simply to veto any further > suggestions, is there some humane format you'd like people's pet > poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms you at that thought, the > list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who are about to hand > in our grades salute you! > > Jerry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sat May 7 01:20:11 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 01:20:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem In-Reply-To: <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I think I found the German original, but it's on some random person's photo page and not attributed. Wer bist du, fragte die W?chterin der Nacht? aus kristallener Reinheit komme ich, war meine Antwort und gro? mein Durst Persephon? doch deinem Befehl gehorchend fliehe ich hinfort und wende mich wieder und wieder f?r immer nach rechts ich verschm?he die bleiche Zypresse suche keine Erfrischung an einer Waldesquelle sondern eile weiter zum rauschenden Flu? Mnemnosyne worin ich trinke bis zur s??en S?ttigung und dort meine H?nde zwischen die Schleifen und Schlingen seines labyrinthischen Stromes tauchend sehe ich erneut wie eines ertrinkenden Schwimmers Traum all die seltsamen Dinge, die ich jemals sah und noch seltsamere Dinge, die kein Mensch je gesehen ... >From http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/account/myprofile/1170585 From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 7 07:27:52 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 07:27:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem Message-ID: <5039952.1304767672946.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Sat May 7 10:23:32 2011 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 15:23:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <435777.80423.qm@web28510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In the last week I've re-read the (ahem) legendary (1968) Cape Edition of Yves Bonnefoy, French with English translations by Anthony Rudolf, obtained from the basement of Nottingham public library, last on loan October 1997; the Hamburger and Middleton 'Modern German Poetry 1910-60', again a bi-lingual edition, not to be confused with its 1970 edition, which I reacquired for 1p (!) plus postage from a Bristol bookstore via Amazon; and the contemporary Dutch poet Esther Jansma (electronic texts in this case). It's a peculiar sensation reading Dutch, rather as if seeing English from another direction. David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com --- On Fri, 6/5/11, David Weinstock wrote: From: David Weinstock Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, 6 May, 2011, 18:50 Nearly everybody is a different ethnicity, gender and nationality from me. ?Most recently I read Karin Gottshall's chapbook FLOOD LETTERS, three times.? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat May 7 11:19:19 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4DC562F7.5000109@louisiana.edu> Oh, tell the truth, David--you translated it yourself, just trying to impress. See what happens when you actually pay attention in your German classes? Many thanks, in any case--I'll try my German colleagues now. As for "wifty" (wise + shifty? witty + iffy? fit but why so?) I did spend a few years in Philadelphia, but don't think I ever heard it there. I think I picked it up from my, uh, reading somewhere, though maybe I absorbed it from a commercial for Jim's Cheese Steaks. I only use it on e-lists, to promote lexical scholarship. best, Jerry On 5/7/2011 12:20 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > I think I found the German original, but it's on some random person's > photo page and not attributed. > > Wer bist du, fragte die W?chterin der Nacht? > aus kristallener Reinheit komme ich, war meine Antwort > und gro? mein Durst Persephon? > doch deinem Befehl gehorchend fliehe ich hinfort > und wende mich wieder und wieder f?r immer nach rechts > ich verschm?he die bleiche Zypresse > suche keine Erfrischung an einer Waldesquelle > sondern eile weiter zum rauschenden Flu? Mnemnosyne > worin ich trinke bis zur s??en S?ttigung > und dort meine H?nde zwischen die Schleifen und Schlingen > seines labyrinthischen Stromes tauchend > sehe ich erneut wie eines ertrinkenden Schwimmers Traum > all die seltsamen Dinge, die ich jemals sah > und noch seltsamere Dinge, die kein Mensch je gesehen ... > > From http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/account/myprofile/1170585 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat May 7 13:38:16 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 18:38:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem In-Reply-To: <4DC562F7.5000109@louisiana.edu> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> <4DC562F7.5000109@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: << As for "wifty" (wise + shifty? witty + iffy? fit but why so?) I did spend a few years in Philadelphia, but don't think I ever heard it there. I think I picked it up from my, uh, reading somewhere, though maybe I absorbed it from a commercial for Jim's Cheese Steaks. I only use it on e-lists, to promote lexical scholarship. best, Jerry >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even Merriam-Webster (Online) has it, so it ain?t that obscure: wif?ty adj \?wif-t?\ Definition of WIFTY : ditzy Origin of WIFTY origin unknown First Known Use: 1979 Rhymes with WIFTY drifty, fifty, nifty, shifty, thrifty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ditzy and drifty would seem to be where it?s at. I didn?t bother to check urbandictionary.com, but I?m sure they?d have something to say. K, back to decoding the semantic nexus around Abraham Men, an Abram Cove, bedlamite beggars [real and feigned], and Mad Tom (who come to think on it might have been a bit wifty himself). Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 7 17:13:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 17:13:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDB12CAA6F1C7-1648-4E7F9@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> I've updating my spreadsheet since 2009. By this summer there will be an Ars Poetica Library v2011, new and expanded edition. I know I have few of those listed below...because I read the C. Day Lewis and Dean Young books in the last couple years. But I always appreciate the suggestions. The listing was originally a collaboration with New-Poetry people and I want it to remain a collaborative effort. I'm also doing a blog that will feature books that I've noticed and the blog links to Ars Poetica Library v2009 that Anny gracious put up on her site. Stay tuned... http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 11:55 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of interest to both the list and to James, I know he has been updating his superb work for a while. All the best, Anny * * * * * What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd request (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas Carper and Derek Attridge Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie Perloff The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and bombarding the person responsible for all this work smells totally unfair. Assuming you're not prepared simply to veto any further suggestions, is there some humane format you'd like people's pet poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms you at that thought, the list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who are about to hand in our grades salute you! Jerry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 7 18:12:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 18:12:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com><4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDDB1AF1B62ECD-1648-500D2@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Vocabulary test: Use "apodization" in sentence. "After the apodization, still he was kicked in the ass by his phantom foot." ----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 5:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) "Apodization" has sound and rhythm way beyond most of your terms, Bob. Plus it is just a step on the road to iPodization, a process we're all familiar with. "We aren't meaning that any more." --John Ashbery Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: I came across it by chance: APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the beginning and end of the sampled time record. Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 7 18:41:58 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 18:41:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDB1F1B50D6D6-1648-50C31@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> I don't know this book. But I have funny little anecdote to recount re Ramke. Somewhere, undigitized, I have recording of Bin Ramke giving a reading/talk at the Aspen Writers Conference. He tells of being out with poet friends, drinking, telling stories, when one of them tells a story that instantly engages Ramke and he recognizes would make material for a really good poem. So he tells his friend, "I'll give you six months. If you haven't written a poem about that by then, I'll feel it's fair game and you can read what I've written." [paraphrase] Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 7, 2011 12:13 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Last book of poems you read written by someone of a different gender & ethnicity (even nationality) than yourself? Bin Ramke Theory of Mind On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of interest to both the list and to James, I know he has been updating his superb work for a while. All the best, Anny * * * * * What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd request (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas Carper and Derek Attridge Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie Perloff The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and bombarding the person responsible for all this work smells totally unfair. Assuming you're not prepared simply to veto any further suggestions, is there some humane format you'd like people's pet poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms you at that thought, the list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who are about to hand in our grades salute you! Jerry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 7 18:49:43 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 18:49:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nothing happened Message-ID: <8CDDB2031161EE7-1648-50E24@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Nothing Happened A swarm of goldfinches stirs into air. When the wind blows over the meadow everything is moving, every leaf, every wing. I took a photo of a wildflower with my cellphone and tried to match it with some images on Google, to no avail. At the edge of a stream, minnows flirt with the grasses. I try to count them but there are too many and they won?t stay still, brushstrokes on a scroll rolling open, and on. I made a brief entry in my journal about the weather. And so the day passed without an event worth remark. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 8 01:38:11 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 07:38:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nothing happened In-Reply-To: <8CDDB2031161EE7-1648-50E24@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDDB2031161EE7-1648-50E24@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I was hoping in a software able to 'recognize/match' pictures - especially for flowers and/or trees. Quite a 'happy' Nothing-ness. On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 12:49 AM, wrote: > Nothing Happened > > > A swarm of goldfinches > stirs into air. When the wind > blows over the meadow > everything is moving, > every leaf, every wing. > > I took a photo of a wildflower > with my cellphone > and tried to match it with some images > on Google, to no avail. > > At the edge of a stream, minnows > flirt with the grasses. > I try to count them but there are > too many and they won?t stay still, > brushstrokes on a scroll rolling open, and on. > > I made a brief entry in my journal > about the weather. And so > the day passed without > an event worth remark. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 8 16:33:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 22:33:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: NEW Visual Poetry/Essay - staring@poetics - Xexoxial Editions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *staring at poetics* 2011, 5" x 8", 56 pgs, Full Color. ISBN 1-936687-03-8 | EAN-13978-1-936687-03-9 $12 To read about the book or purchase a copy - http://xexoxial.org/is/staring_at_poetics/by/nico_vassilakis from the book: How do our retinal experiences alter what we think we know about alphabet? >From minimal to maximal, the alphabet is explored and expanded on. From the contextual aggregates and combinations of letters to the visual elements that form a single letter. The visual poetry of alphabet insists that writing is the drawing of what and how we think, and within that writing, images accrue, the letters themselves, drawn, or otherwise printed, are illustrating or reproducing our thought. Nico Vassilakis works with text and visual alphabet. Nico, with Crag Hill, edited the forthcoming *The Last Vispo: Visual Poetry Anthology 1998-2008*. He has published several books, including *West of Dodge* (redfoxpress, 2009), *Protracted Type* (blue lion books, 2008), *Text Loses Time*(Manypenny press, 2008), *Disparate Magnets* (BlazeVOX, 2009) and *DIPTYCHS* (Otolith, 2008). Nico lives in Seattle with the poet Crystal Curry and their kids.. staring poetics: http://staringpoetics.weebly.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon May 9 11:00:17 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Splurge Message-ID: Splurge Spending profusely leaves us regretfully gaining everything. Saving, perhaps, less urgently, retards growth, etc. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 9 12:26:17 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Gazette 5.9.11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <382160.13692.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Diane Week of May 9, 2011 News of Barbara LaMorticella, Barbara Crooker, Julie Kane, Gail White, Marie-Elizabeth Mali, Suzanne Frischkorn, Mary Meriam, Louisa Howerow, Ruth Foley, Carol Berg, Ann Hostetler, Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi, Barbara A. Taylor, Martha Deed, Joelle Biele, Penny Harter,? Penelope Scambly Schott, Diane Lockward, Susan Laughter Meyers, Sherry Chandler, Ellen Miller-Mack, Sally Rosen Kindred, Rachel Dacus, Barbara Ellen Sorensen, Mary Rose Betten, Pam Bernard, Millicent Borges Accardi, Patricia Fargnoli, Anne Harding Woodworth PUBLICATIONS: Barbara LaMorticella?s poem ?Solstice on Multnomah Channel? was chosen to appear with children?s art and poetry in the just-released anthology,??Honoring our Rivers 2011,? an anthology put out by the Willamette Fellowship of work done by schoolchildren in the watersheds of Oregon and around the world. (barbala at teleport.com) Barbara Crooker's poem, "Room in New York, 1932," appears in the new issue of decomP:? http://www.decompmagazine.com/roominnewyork1932.htm? Audio is?also?available.?Her poem, "Alicia Silverstone Meets William Carlos Williams" is reprinted in the anthology, Visiting Dr. Williams:? Poems Inspired by the Life and Work of William Carlos Willams (University of Iowa Press). Her writing prompt, based on Diane Lockward's poem, "To a Potato," appears on Anjie Kokan's blog, Prompts for Writers:? http://promptsforwriters.blogspot.com/ (bcrooker at ix.netcom.com) Julie Kane has recently published poems in The Dark Horse ("Colorific"), The Raintown Review ("AA Story"), and Southern Women's Review ("Men Who Love Redheads" and "Birch Thoughts in Louisiana").?She and Rima Krasauskyt? translated nine poems by the Lithuanian poet Tautvyda Marcinkevi?i?t? in the most recent issue of The Drunken Boat: http://www.thedrunkenboat.com/tautvydamarcinkeviciute.html. Gail White's poem "A Speech for Juliet's Nurse" appears in the current issue of the Evansville Review. Marie-Elizabeth Mali's poem, "Who Says the Ear Loves Slience?" appears in the current issue of Poet Lore. Her poem, "Taken for Granted," appears in the current issue of Union Square Magazine:? http://unionstationmag.com/2011/05/poem-marie-elizabeth-mali/ (mem at memali.com) Suzanne Frischkorn's poem "When My Granddaughter Asks" appears in the debut issue of Printer's Devil Review. Mary Meriam has a poem, "The Woman of My Dreams," in the current issue of The Gay & Lesbian Review, and three poems (Wu Tsao the Bull, Christina Rossetti the Twins, Emily Dickinson the Crab)?in the current issue of Measure: A Review of Formal Poetry. (mary.meriam at gmail.com) Louisa Howerow's poem "Just to Let You Know I haven't Forgotten the Garden" appears in the spring/summer 2011 issue of FreeFall. Ruth Foley's poem "Live Birth" is up at Blood Lotus.? (ruthfoley at gmail.com) Carol Berg's poem "On Longing" is up at Redheaded Stepchild. ? (bergcaro at gmail.com) Ann Hostetler's poems, "Afterbirth" and "On the Front Porch at Midnight" appear in the new issue of Literary Mama: http://www.literarymama.com/profile.php?author=ann-hostetler Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi and her daughter, Soufi Mostafavi, have two poems on Mother?s Day in the new issue of : First Literary Review-East: www.rulrul.4mg.com (fhm at jamejam.net) Barbara A. Taylor has three haiku, "acid rains," "homeward bound," "summer rains,"? and a haibun, "Oblivion," in Mango Moons, feature on Muse India, http://www.museindia.com/focuscontent.asp?issid=37&id=2670? (bats69 at bigpond.net.au) Martha Deed's November 2010 Project texts (contribution to 30 texts from 30 writers) published by http://chapbookpublisher.com/November-2010.html and her video poem, "Snow Haiku," exhibited at Electronic Village Galleries (http://evg.dematerial.org/) (mldeed at verizon.net) Joelle Biele's essay, "Pulled by the Hair: Deborah Digges and the Power of Myth" appears in the spring issue of Kenyon Review Online: https://www.kenyonreview.org/kro_full.php?file=biele.php FEATURES: Penny Harter's poem, "Shelling Peas," was featured on Mother's Day at Your Daily Poem: http://www.yourdailypoem.com/listpoem.jsp?poem_id=728 (penhart at 2hweb.net) A poem by Penelope Scambly Schott will be featured this Wednesday, May 11, at Verse Daily: www.versedaily.com AUDIO / VIDEO: Monday May 16,? 10-11 PM Pacific Time Talking Earth poetry, hosted by Barbara LaMorticella KBOO Radio,? 90.7 FM Portland broadcast live on the web at http://kboo.fm Poets Susan Denning and John Morrison read and talk contact:?? barbala at teleport.com? REVIEWS: Diane Lockward's Temptation by Water is reviewed by Susan Laughter Meyers?in the latest issue of Pirene's Fountain. http://www.pirenesfountain.com/reviews-etc/reviews.html#n3 (bardowl2 at aol.com) (dslockward at gmail.com) Sherry Chandler?s newly-released book,?Weaving a New Eden,?is reviewed by Mary Popham in the?Louisville Courier-Journal?for May 7, 2011.??http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011305070030 Ellen Miller-Mack?s review ofLast Seen by Jacqueline Jones LaMon appears in the current issue of Bookslut:? http://bookslut.com/ . (ellenmiller-mack at comcast.net ) Sally Rosen Kindred?s book, No Eden, is reviewed by Cherie Walsh in Gently Read Literature: http://gentlyread.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/the-vividness-of-the-particular-cherie-walsh-on-sally-rosen-kindreds-no-eden/ (sally at quietmoon.com)? Rachel Dacus reviews Barbara Crooker's More in the current issue of The Pedestal Magazine (http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/gallery.php?item=17539) AWARDS: Julie Kane has just been appointed Poet Laureate of Louisiana for the 2011-2013 term. Barbara Ellen Sorensen's book, Song from the Deep Middle Brain (Main Street Rag Publishing, 2010), is a finalist in the 2011 Colorado Book Awards. The awards ceremony takes place June 24, 2011 in Aspen, Colorado. EVENTS: Sunday, May 15 Poetry Festival: A Celebration of Literary Journals 12 Journals and Editors 24 Poets Reading West Caldwell Public Library 30 Clinton Rd. West Caldwell, NJ 1:00 - 5:00 PM ? ? ? Free Organized and hosted by Diane Lockward http://www.dianelockward.com/fest.html READINGS: Tuesday, May 10 Mary Rose Betten Artists Union Gallery 330 S. California St. Plaza Ventura, California 7:30PM ??Free contact:mrbetten at verizon.net Friday, May 13 Pam Bernard with Simeon Berry, Valerie Duff, Gwen Jensen,?and Heather Madden ? Salamander reading Mass Poetry Festival (May 13-14?) ? The Gathering 217 Essex St. Salem, MA 5:30 to 6:30 p.m. Mass Poetry Festival Website: www.masspoetry.org Saturday, May 14 Marie-Elizabeth Mali hosts Page Meets Stage with Aimee Nezhukumatathil and Cristin O'Keefe Aptowicz Massachusetts Poetry Festival Phillips Library, 132 Essex St. Salem, MA 3:00 pm, $10 buys button for whole festival Contact:?http://masspoetry.crowdvine.com/ Sunday, May 15 Millicent Borges Accardi? Valley Contemporary Poets Reading Series Encino Community Center 4935 Balboa Blvd. Encino, CA 5:00 PM ? ? $3 Donation Requested Contact:?http://poetrysuperhighway.com/vcp/readings.html Sunday, May 15 Patricia Fargnoli and Dzvinia Orlowsky? Poetry on Broadway Series Co-sponsored with the Cambridge Public Library and New England Poetry Club Cambridge Public Library, Main Library 449 Broadway? Cambridge, MA 2pm? Tuesday, May 24 Anne Harding Woodworth with Jody Bolz and Tom Healy Library of Congress Whittall Pavilion, Thomas Jefferson Building 10 First Street, SE Washington, D.C. 12 noon, Free -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 9 12:30:12 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Flashback: What is Experimental Poetry & Why Do We Need It? Message-ID: <501183.6686.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Joan Retallack What is Experimental Poetry & Why Do We Need It? Critique of the appropriative we makes way for an inclusive we of human responsibility acknowledging the shared origin and destiny of every form of life on the planet. A planetary pronoun is inherently experimental. No one knows what its force might be. The question is how to deploy it in consequential synergistic projects (thought and living experiments) that compose new value coordinates for we. ? Genre Tallique,Glances: An Unwritten Book 2 Here?s a little thought experiment?a schematic essay of linked propositions with several implications. 3 a) There is the shock of alterity. Or should be. b) There is the pleasure of alterity. Or should be. c) We humans with all our conversational structures have yet to invite enough alterity in. d) Experiment is conversation with an interrogative dynamic. Its consequential structures turn on paying attention to what happens when well-designed questions are directed to things we sense but don?t really know. These things cannot be known by merely examining our own minds. 4 If there is or can be an experimental poetics, where ?experimental? means something more interesting than the latest stylistic oddities, it will at least have to be an exploration of a), b), and c) by means of d). 5 These are working notes that range along a mirage line between the descriptive and prescriptive. It seems hopeless to dodge blurring a distinction I don?t quite believe in. Doesn?t the act of description always entail prescriptive exhortation: Notice this. Notice this in a particular way. Value that noticing. This is real. Take it to heart. Make something of it. Continued here --? http://jacketmagazine.com/32/p-retallack.shtml ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 9 12:33:34 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Help? Separation of ... Message-ID: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Can anyone point me in the direction of info online regarding how / why / the evolution / 'devolution' of the "schools" took place since the Greeks... I.e. How did the liberal arts become one school where someone will likely not study mathematics, etc?? Thanks, Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon May 9 13:02:01 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:02:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Help? Separation of ... In-Reply-To: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I assume you are sticking with Western education where your question makes the most sense. I don't know resources off the top of my head, but I know that a good part of the divergence came from political and religious changes/pressures. In Medieval universities the curriculum was divided into the trivium and the quadrivium, generally in that order. Enter the Reformation, where these educational institutions became suspect and various religious attacks that focused on learning in a much narrower fashion (primarily in service of worship) while the sciences, in general, retreated to a much narrower group of institutions (many in Italy, for obvious reasons). Essentially, throughout much of Europe at the time, university education became the trivium, and that was it. The system as we have it now is a reflection of that split. Interesting, too, is the way the education of women changed. For instance, men and women were educated in about equal proportion in the Roman empire. c On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:33 AM, amy king wrote: > Can anyone point me in the direction of info online regarding how / why / > the evolution / 'devolution' of the "schools" took place since the Greeks... > I.e. How did the liberal arts become one school where someone will likely > not study mathematics, etc? > > Thanks, > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon May 9 13:23:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 10:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem In-Reply-To: <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Poetry and the Fate of the Senses by Susan Stewart should be added to the list ... ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 7, 2011 12:27:14 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] problem poem I know this is New Poetry and all, but I need help from someone with much wider reading in (I'm guessing) fin-de-siecle poetry than I've done. I'm looking for the poet who wrote (and possibly the correct title of) the poem spoken (by John Malkovich) at the end of Raul Ruiz's film, Klimt. If you search the web (unless your skills are better than mine) all you'll get are wifty re-postings of the same kind of wifty stuff (the poem itself is spectacularly wifty). The title they give is always the one given below, but I have no idea whether that's correct--I suspect it's pure proliferating simulacra. Anyway, here's the title and text I've got (I'm quite sure that "Namozine" below should actually be "Mnemosyne," but I don't detect any other real howlers); my only other clue--Klimt died in 1918, and Ruiz (who has written a fine book of short fiction and several very smart books about film) isn't the kind of guy to go all anachronistic at a point like this--or so I think. Anyone got a clue? Jerry "Drowning Swimmer?s Dream" (Author unknown) Who art thou?, asked the guardian of the night. From crystal purity I come, was my reply, And great my thirst, Persephone. Yet heeding thy decree, I take to flight, And turn, and turn again, forever right. I spurn the pallid cypress tree, Seek no refreshment at its sylvan spring, But hasten on towards the rustling river- Of Namozine, wherein I drink to sweet satiety. And there, dipping my palms between The knots and loopings of its mazy stream, I see again, as in a drowning swimmer's dream, All the strange sights I ever saw, And even stranger sights no man has ever seen. On 5/6/2011 10:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: I am forwarding the following by Jerry McGuire that might be of interest to both the list and to James, I know he has been updating his superb work for a while. All the best, >Anny > > >* * * * * > >What a dazzling and useful list! Are you taking requests? I'd >request (thinking oh-so-quickly) that James think about adding these: > >Critical Theory Since Plato, by Hazard Adams >Meter and Meaning: An Introduction to Rhythm in Poetry, by Tholmas >Carper and Derek Attridge >Rethinking Meter: A New Approach to the Verse Line, by Alan Holder >The Poetic Image, by C. Day Lewis >Prior to Meaning: The Protosemantic and Poetics, by Steve McCaffery >Radical Artifice: Writing Poetry in the Age of Media, by Marjorie >Perloff >The Uses of Poetry, by Denys Thompson >The Art of Recklessness, by Dean Young > >I suspect that everyone will have their own suggestions, and >bombarding the person responsible for all this work smells totally >unfair. Assuming you're not prepared simply to veto any further >suggestions, is there some humane format you'd like people's pet >poetics put in? And if revulsion overwhelms you at that thought, the >list is really remarkable just as it stands. We who are about to hand >in our grades salute you! > >Jerry > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Mon May 9 14:16:30 2011 From: wlantry at gmail.com (Bill Lantry) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:16:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Help? Separation of ... In-Reply-To: References: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amy, Chris has given some good ideas. If it were me, I would zero in on the Huxley / Arnold debates, circa 1870. As Universities rose, the split became pronounced. Try here: http://www.google.com/search?q=josiah+mason+arnold+huxley&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Thanks, Bill On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I assume you are sticking with Western education where your question > makes the most sense. I don't know resources off the top of my head, > but I know that a good part of the divergence came from political and > religious changes/pressures. In Medieval universities the curriculum > was divided into the trivium and the quadrivium, generally in that > order. Enter the Reformation, where these educational institutions > became suspect and various religious attacks that focused on learning > in a much narrower fashion (primarily in service of worship) while the > sciences, in general, retreated to a much narrower group of > institutions (many in Italy, for obvious reasons). Essentially, > throughout much of Europe at the time, university education became the > trivium, and that was it. The system as we have it now is a reflection > of that split. > > Interesting, too, is the way the education of women changed. For > instance, men and women were educated in about equal proportion in the > Roman empire. > > c > > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:33 AM, amy king wrote: > > Can anyone point me in the direction of info online regarding how / why / > > the evolution / 'devolution' of the "schools" took place since the > Greeks... > > I.e. How did the liberal arts become one school where someone will likely > > not study mathematics, etc? > > > > Thanks, > > Amy > > > > ********* > > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > > + http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 9 14:20:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 14:20:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library In-Reply-To: <548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu><4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> <548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Got that one on v2009 list... http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 But keep 'em coming...still compiling v2011. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] problem poem Poetry and the Fate of the Senses by Susan Stewart should be added to the list ... = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 9 14:25:45 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 14:25:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library In-Reply-To: <8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu><4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu><548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDDC8DA4CB1718-1B68-89A7C@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Question for the 'prosody wonks' on this list: I just picked up a copy of Principles of English Versification by Paull Franklin Baum (c1923). I'm not too far into it yet, but it seems to be an excellent treatise on the subject. What is the reputation of this book among versification specialists? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 2:20 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library Got that one on v2009 list... http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 But keep 'em coming...still compiling v2011. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] problem poem Poetry and the Fate of the Senses by Susan Stewart should be added to the list ... _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:25:17 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:25:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Query: Who wrote about the eye as "the stem of brain [that?] touches light" Message-ID: Does anyone know this? I just went through two books by William Sylvester where I think I saw it and couldn't find it. I fear it make have come from Zukovsky and since I used it in a piece, I'm concerned about his litigious son, Paul (the piece of brain that touches blight). SDoes anyone know the source? If Zukofsky, would quoting a phrase (clearly attributed) trigger his rabid response? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon May 9 15:45:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 12:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> We need more cranks. D.H. Lawrence was my favorite crank. What exactly is a crank? Is a crank a person who one may consider as devoutly unorthodox? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 4:30:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) I came across it by chance: APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the beginning and end of the sampled time record. Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? It was once a coinage, you know. Why not "foot-removal?" I suspect because whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms though not the W. word to do. I know: there's a difference between a certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to link my terms to. I understandably (I should think) don't think that's relevant. Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 9 15:45:35 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:45:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Help? Separation of ... In-Reply-To: References: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would probably dig through Wikipedia's hints under *The History of Education*: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:History_of_education unluckily the burning of the Library of Alexandria has cut us out of the ancient world: http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=9 On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Bill Lantry wrote: > Amy, > > Chris has given some good ideas. If it were me, I would zero in on the > Huxley / Arnold debates, circa 1870. As Universities rose, the split became > pronounced. Try here: > http://www.google.com/search?q=josiah+mason+arnold+huxley&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> I assume you are sticking with Western education where your question >> makes the most sense. I don't know resources off the top of my head, >> but I know that a good part of the divergence came from political and >> religious changes/pressures. In Medieval universities the curriculum >> was divided into the trivium and the quadrivium, generally in that >> order. Enter the Reformation, where these educational institutions >> became suspect and various religious attacks that focused on learning >> in a much narrower fashion (primarily in service of worship) while the >> sciences, in general, retreated to a much narrower group of >> institutions (many in Italy, for obvious reasons). Essentially, >> throughout much of Europe at the time, university education became the >> trivium, and that was it. The system as we have it now is a reflection >> of that split. >> >> Interesting, too, is the way the education of women changed. For >> instance, men and women were educated in about equal proportion in the >> Roman empire. >> >> c >> >> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:33 AM, amy king wrote: >> > Can anyone point me in the direction of info online regarding how / why >> / >> > the evolution / 'devolution' of the "schools" took place since the >> Greeks... >> > I.e. How did the liberal arts become one school where someone will >> likely >> > not study mathematics, etc? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Amy >> > >> > ********* >> > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> > + Interviews >> > Amy's Alias >> > + http://amyking.org/ >> > ******** >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon May 9 15:56:38 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 14:56:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Query: Who wrote about the eye as "the stem of brain [that?] touches light" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC846F6.2060108@louisiana.edu> skip, have you been reading Stan Brakhage or Hollis Frampton? Especially Brakhage used that kind of language, and Frampton could, too. Jerry On 5/9/2011 2:25 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Does anyone know this? I just went through two books by William > Sylvester where I think I saw it and couldn't find it. I fear it make > have come from Zukovsky and since I used it in a piece, I'm concerned > about his litigious son, Paul (the piece of brain that touches blight). > SDoes anyone know the source? If Zukofsky, would quoting a phrase > (clearly attributed) trigger his rabid response? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 9 19:26:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 18:26:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.4 0807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA09EA550A30-1774- 1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com><4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> <909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net> On 5/9/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: > We need more cranks. D.H. Lawrence was my favorite crank. > What exactly is a crank? Is a crank a person who one may consider as > devoutly unorthodox? . You probably shouldn't put a question like that where I can see it, Stephen. Needless to say, I have my own definition of it: a crank, generally speaking, is a pseudosopher or seeker of pseudo knowledge the way a verosopher is a seeker of true knowledge, who believes he is rational, and is very rational when logic supports him, but not when it doesn't; and his premises are usually unsound, and always uncertified; there is also the kook, a pseudosopher who doesn't care about reason, spinning completely loony theories out of nothing. The crank will tell you he's scientific, the kook will tell you he's superior to science. I think you can have a theory that's highly unorthodox and still not be a crank if your reasoning is sound, breaks no affirmed laws of science, and is based on premises that are possible. You can also be wrong and not a crank. Or a crank and right--though never for the reasons you believe. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Mon May 9 22:49:54 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 19:49:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC30E89.40807@louisiana.edu> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <8CDDA09EA550A30-1774-1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Haha!!!!! And no, that's not me spelling Hal wrong. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "Apodization" has sound and rhythm way beyond > most of your terms, Bob. Plus it is just a step on > the road to iPodization, a process we're all familiar > with. > > "We aren't meaning that any more." > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?--John Ashbery > Hal > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: >> >> I came across it by chance: >> >> APODIZATION* literally means "removing the foot". It is the >> technical term for changing the shape of a mathematical function, an >> electrical signal, an optical transmission or a mechanical structure. >> An example of apodization is the use of the Hann window in the Fast >> Fourier transform analyzer to smooth the discontinuities at the >> beginning and end of the sampled time record. >> >> Now, then, is this a pompous, unpronounceable, superfluous term? ?It was >> once a coinage, you know. ?Why not "foot-removal?" ?I suspect because >> whoever coined it wanted it quickly to narrow the mind into mathematics, >> i.e., a particular system or discipline--which I also want most of my terms >> though not the W. word to do. ?I know: there's a difference between a >> certified subject like mathematics and the theoretical psychology I try to >> link my terms to. ?I understandably (I should think) don't think that's >> relevant. ?Why should someone be discouraged from systematic naming of terms >> to fit interactingly into a theory he's creating just because he's a crank? >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 10 15:40:27 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:40:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Open City closes shop Message-ID: <8CDDD613F685274-1138-C605@webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> http://www.observer.com/2011/daily-transom/open-city-closed Open City, Closed: Acclaimed Literary Journal Says Goodbye Email Print More...By Christian Lorentzen March 1, 2011 | 7:30 p.m Open City Magazine. After 20 years and 30 issues, Open City is ceasing publication, co-editor Joanna Yas told The Observer. "These things are not institutions," said founder and co-editor Thomas Beller. "They're always razor's edge things." Ms. Yas and Mr. Beller decided to shut down the journal after multiple sources of funding pulled out. They hadn't expected issue 30 to be the swansong. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 10 15:47:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:47:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] HD in London Message-ID: <8CDDD622B5FC616-1138-C9E3@webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/may/05/hd-london-imagism HD in London: When Imagism arrived Hilda Doolittle's journey from the US to England, where her work was adopted by Ezra Pound, is a poetic anniversary worth marking I first began to suspect that things weren't quite right in the world of bookselling one day about a decade ago. I strolled into one of Dublin's finest long-established independent bookshops and asked the assistant who was positioned closest to the poetry section whether they had in stock, or could order, any books by the American poet HD. The response was instant and, for me at least, decisive: "How do you spell that?" I left. One hundred years ago this May, a young Pennsylvanian woman called Hilda Doolittle arrived in London in the company of her then-lover Frances Gregg and Gregg's mother. She had come to meet her one-time fianc?, Ezra Pound, who had made the same journey a couple of years earlier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue May 10 21:07:59 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 21:07:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gray Jacobik on the ode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice, Gray. On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:36 AM, David Graham wrote: > Don't miss sometime NewPo member Gray Jacobik's essay featured today on > Poetry Daily. > > Here's what Gray has to say about the piece: > > "I am surprised and delighted that Poetry Daily picked up a critical > article of mine for their Prose Feature of the Week, and I am thus > emboldened enough to share it. This essay grew out of a seminar > presentation I made last summer at The Frost Place and was published this > spring in Poet Lore. I explore the evolution of the ode as a sub-genre > focusing on poems by Neruda, Justice and Cording. It's my attempt to get a > handle on some of the ways in which contemporary poets have made use of this > tradition. > All the best, > Gray" > > *http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_jacobik.php > *-- > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From member at linkedin.com Wed May 11 06:38:59 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Obododimma Oha via LinkedIn) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:38:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [New-Poetry] Obododimma Oha wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <897451291.1491532.1305110339508.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed37.prod> LinkedIn ------------Obododimma Oha requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Anny, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Obododimma Oha Accept invitation from Obododimma Oha http://www.linkedin.com/e/r4j8wu-gnk4zyy8-3z/_urAbAlFreiGury6NRl2Y0rmkZCmIIqd-uye0pzx/blk/I1325107086_3/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYPnPoUc3sMcjkOcP59bR1xgBhbr3wJbP4Pdz8NdjoRe38LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Obododimma Oha http://www.linkedin.com/e/r4j8wu-gnk4zyy8-3z/_urAbAlFreiGury6NRl2Y0rmkZCmIIqd-uye0pzx/blk/I1325107086_3/3dvdzwMdP0Ndj8PckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. Take control of your image! http://www.linkedin.com/e/r4j8wu-gnk4zyy8-3z/ewp/inv-22/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 11 10:09:46 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:09:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Progress vs. Pluralism Message-ID: <8CDDDFC37BAFCAF-E60-1CA2F@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/article/241856 The Great Debate: Progress vs. Pluralism Marjorie Perloff?s Unoriginal Genius and Reginald Shepherd?s A Martian Muse.? by Robert Archambeau Unoriginal Genius: Poetry by Other Means in the New Century, by Marjorie Perloff. University of Chicago Press.$32.50. A Martian Muse: Further Essays on Identity, Politics, and the Freedom of Poetry, by Reginald Shepherd. Ed. by Robert Philen.University of Michigan Press.$21.95. = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed May 11 12:35:45 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Help? Separation of ... In-Reply-To: References: <979851.81167.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <159153.83810.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks so much for these recommendations - a good number ... I'm going through them now! Best, Amy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed May 11 12:43:07 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English Message-ID: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> EducationTuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time to rethink how we teach? -- http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed May 11 12:55:15 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:55:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no better and no worse than they've ever been. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > Education > Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college > students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time > to rethink how we teach? > -- > http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 11 13:08:13 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:08:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of "why Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the same. I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after wave of these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of skills in my classrooms. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no better and no worse than they've ever been. > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > Education > Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET > Death to high school English > > My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time to rethink how we teach? > > > -- http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english > > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed May 11 13:16:34 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:16:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, etc. Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; *I *was changing. The longer I teach, the more comfortable I get with the agreed-upon standards of English grammar. As the years have gone by, I've simply become more aware of my students' lack of skill in English and grammar. This realization had a profound impact upon me and my teaching. It suddenly hit me that about sixteen years ago, *I *was someone's student in a class I hated: college algebra. Of course the professor was better than I was at the subject; of course my lack of skill coupled with my hardheaded lack of interest frustrated my professor to no end. I sure he or she probably thought that not only I but also every other student in class was an absolute idiot. I've tried to remember that as I grow older as a teacher, my students stay the same age. I get better (maybe?), I get older, I get more comfortable in my area of specialization, but my freshmen always remain 18 or 19. --Jeff Newberry On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:08 PM, David Graham wrote: > That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of > "why Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the > same. I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after > wave of these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of > skills in my classrooms. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > > Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no > better and no worse than they've ever been. > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > >> Education >> Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college >> students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time >> to rethink how we teach? >> -- >> http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >> >> >> ********* >> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> + Interviews >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed May 11 13:24:34 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:24:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ya, same old chit. But I expect youse guys who are still teaching to do sumthin' bout it. Revolutionize the rubric, pulverize the pedagogy! Go forth! - Jim On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no > better and no worse than they've ever been. > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > >> Education >> Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college >> students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time >> to rethink how we teach? >> -- >> http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >> >> >> ********* >> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> + Interviews >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed May 11 13:48:01 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC30E89.4 0807@louisiana.edu><8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu><8CDDA09EA550A30-1774- 1534B@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com><4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> <909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <330462.73326.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Then I'll stick with the cranks. Too many kooks consider themselves to be gurus, spiritual advisors beyond the realm of science. Mind you, I don't blindly trust science, but used wisely, there's no better tool. And as for kooks and gurus, I can think of a few poets who fall into this catagory, but I won't mention names. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 7:26:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) On 5/9/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: We need more cranks. D.H. Lawrence was my favorite crank. >What exactly is a crank? Is a crank a person who one may consider as devoutly >unorthodox? >. You probably shouldn't put a question like that where I can see it, Stephen.? Needless to say, I have my own definition of it: a crank, generally speaking, is a pseudosopher or seeker of pseudo knowledge the way a verosopher is a seeker of true knowledge, who believes he is rational, and is very rational when logic supports him, but not when it doesn't; and his premises are usually unsound, and always uncertified; there is also the kook, a pseudosopher who doesn't care about reason, spinning completely loony theories out of nothing.? The crank will tell you he's scientific, the kook will tell you he's superior to science. I think you can have a theory that's highly unorthodox and still not be a crank if your reasoning is sound, breaks no affirmed laws of science, and is based on premises that are possible.? You can also be wrong and not a crank.? Or a crank and right--though never for the reasons you believe. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed May 11 13:54:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <934945.49411.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The highschool teachers I had were not, to put it mildly, passionate about Lit. They'd play recordings of the Inferno which everyone considered corny, or have their illiterate students (me included) read from Shakespeare( incredibly dopey) since Lizabeaten plays were the last things on our filthy little minds. ________________________________ From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 1:24:34 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English Ya, same old chit. ?But I expect youse guys who are still teaching to do sumthin' bout it. ?Revolutionize the rubric, pulverize the pedagogy! ?Go forth! - Jim On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no better and no worse than they've ever been. > > >On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > >Education Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET >>Death to high school English >>My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is >>it time to rethink how we teach? >> >>-- >>http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >> >> >> >> >> >>********* >>VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>+?Interviews >> >> >>Amy's Alias >>+?http://amyking.org/? >>******** >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com// The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed May 11 15:05:59 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:05:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library In-Reply-To: <8CDDC8DA4CB1718-1B68-89A7C@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu><4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu><548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDC8DA4CB1718-1B68-89A7C@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DCADE17.60504@louisiana.edu> I hope you're getting some back-channel responses from real prosody experts. I'm not one, but I've checked through the texts I've got on hand, and couldn't find references to Baum's book. This is very odd, since most of my reading in prosody concerns the same musical analogies that inform his work--which I've browsed and downloaded from Project Gutenberg. Here are some others that I found useful. They range from the quaintly historical (though sometimes these are pretty fascinating; I've provided dates for these) to the heavy-duty contemporary (Cureton): Cureton, Richard./Rhythmic Phrasing in English Verse./ Halle, Morris & Samuel Jay Keyser. /English stress; its form, its growth, and its role in verse/. Hertz, David Michael. /The Tuning of the Word: The Musico-Literary Poetics of the Symbolist Movement./ Jourdain, Robert./Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy./ Khan, Hazrat Inayat./Mysticism of Sound and Music./ Kirby-Smith, H. T.///The //Celestial Twins: Poetry and Music through the Ages./ Lanier, Sidney./Science of English Verse, The./ (1880). Raymond, George Lansing, /Poetry as Representative Art /(1899)./ / Raymond, George Lansing, /Rhythm and Harmony in Poetry and Music, Together with Music as a Representative Art;/ /Two Essays in Comparative Aesthetics /(1895)./ / Say, Samuel. /Poems on Several Occasions and Two Critical Essays./ Includes "An Essay on the Harmony, Variety, and Power of Numbers, Whether in Prose or Verse" (1745; available for download from Google Books). Steele, Joshua. /Prosodia rationalis/ (1779). Winn, James Anderson. /Unsuspected eloquence : a history of the relations between poetry and music./ On 5/9/2011 1:25 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Question for the 'prosody wonks' on this list: I just picked up a copy > of Principles of English Versification by Paull Franklin Baum (c1923). > I'm not too far into it yet, but it seems to be an excellent treatise > on the subject. What is the reputation of this book among > versification specialists? > > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 2:20 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library > > Got that one on v2009 list... > > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 > > But keep 'em coming...still compiling v2011. > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] problem poem > > Poetry and the Fate of the Senses by Susan Stewart should be added to > the list ... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 11 16:07:38 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 16:07:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDDE2E361E0BEB-1854-1A3A6@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> OMG, I can't believe teachers aren't seeing more of these in papers.... http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp#num -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English Ya, same old chit. But I expect youse guys who are still teaching to do sumthin' bout it. Revolutionize the rubric, pulverize the pedagogy! Go forth! - Jim On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no better and no worse than they've ever been. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: Education Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time to rethink how we teach? -- http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 11 16:10:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 16:10:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poets in the House Message-ID: <8CDDE2E91912576-1854-1A4D3@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/common-the-white-house-poetry-night-and-the-danger-of-metaphors/2011/05/11/AFhD68qG_blog.html I have a beef with Common for unrelated reasons: he was in the Queen Latifah vehicle ?Just Wright,? the worst torment I have ever been subjected to on an airplane except for the time a couple elbowed me repeatedly in the ribs while they joined some sort of altitude club. But if we?re getting upset about tonight?s invitees, let?s not exclude the rest of the list: Billy Collins, Elizabeth Alexander, Rita Dove, Kenneth Goldsmith, Alison Knowles, Aimee Mann and Jill Scott? Can you believe these people? All anti-American, misogynistic, anti-cop, anti-disestablishmentarianists! Take Billy Collins. Have you seen the despicable sentiments that practically ooze from every line of the man?s writing? To think that children are reciting this filth. It?s so un-American, it?s practically Canadian! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed May 11 20:00:58 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <8CDDE2E361E0BEB-1854-1A3A6@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CDDE2E361E0BEB-1854-1A3A6@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <99154.17132.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> why hasn't anyone tried a multidisciplinary approach? poetry & kick boxing ... add your martial art ... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 4:07:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English OMG, I can't believe teachers aren't seeing more of these in papers.... http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp#num -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English Ya, same old chit. But I expect youse guys who are still teaching to do sumthin' bout it. Revolutionize the rubric, pulverize the pedagogy! Go forth! - Jim On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no better and no worse than they've ever been. > > >On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: > >Education Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET >>Death to high school English >>My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is >>it time to rethink how we teach? >> >>-- >>http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >> >> >> >> >> >>********* >> >>VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>+ Interviews >> >> >>Amy's Alias >>+ http://amyking.org/ >>******** >> _______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com// The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu May 12 02:10:43 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:10:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I have also been a teacher for so many years. I [really] taught Shakespeare at the age of 14/15 to 18-19 year old students because I was the only one around *that place* who spoke English, and it was more a matter of understanding 'words' rather than filtering experience through experience, although I tried my best in that area as well. I agree with both, Tad and Jeff. And I would also like to add that an era produces very few geniuses, and very probably Fate does not put them all together in the same class and does not offer them to the same teacher year after year. There is a saying in Italy that goes, 'I am teaching, not working.' Thus, a little patience might help. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching > full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that > my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often > putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all > kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing > skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, > etc. > > Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; *I *was changing. The > longer I teach, the more comfortable I get with the agreed-upon standards of > English grammar. As the years have gone by, I've simply become more aware > of my students' lack of skill in English and grammar. This realization had > a profound impact upon me and my teaching. It suddenly hit me that about > sixteen years ago, *I *was someone's student in a class I hated: college > algebra. Of course the professor was better than I was at the subject; of > course my lack of skill coupled with my hardheaded lack of interest > frustrated my professor to no end. I sure he or she probably thought that > not only I but also every other student in class was an absolute idiot. > > I've tried to remember that as I grow older as a teacher, my students stay > the same age. I get better (maybe?), I get older, I get more comfortable in > my area of specialization, but my freshmen always remain 18 or 19. > > --Jeff Newberry > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:08 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of >> "why Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the >> same. I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after >> wave of these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of >> skills in my classrooms. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >> Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are >> no better and no worse than they've ever been. >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: >> >>> Education >>> Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college >>> students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time >>> to rethink how we teach? >>> -- >>> http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >>> >>> >>> ********* >>> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>> + Interviews >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> + http://amyking.org/ >>> ******** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Thu May 12 02:57:26 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 23:57:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I once graded a final-year university student's assignment in which I encountered the expression, "After we had eated and drinked, we go to sleep." After grading that script, I felt an incurable urge to drink (or is it "drinked"?) something bitter and alcoholic. I just needed to get drunk to forget what I had read, at least for a while. Honestly, reading bad English frequently can affect one's mind, if not one's expression! Well, what I normally do, in an attempt to rescue myself, is to pick up a well-crafted work of prose, to read it and read it, until I feel I am in a safe semiotic zone! --- Obododimma. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I have also been a teacher for so many years. I [really] taught Shakespeare > at the age of 14/15 to 18-19 year old students because I was the only one > around *that place* who spoke English, and it was more a matter of > understanding 'words' rather than filtering experience through experience, > although I tried my best in that area as well. > I agree with both, Tad and Jeff. And I would also like to add that an era > produces very few geniuses, and very probably Fate does not put them all > together in the same class and does not offer them to the same teacher year > after year. > There is a saying in Italy that goes, 'I am teaching, not working.' Thus, a > little patience might help. > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching >> full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that >> my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often >> putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all >> kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing >> skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, >> etc. >> >> Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; *I *was changing. The >> longer I teach, the more comfortable I get with the agreed-upon standards of >> English grammar. As the years have gone by, I've simply become more aware >> of my students' lack of skill in English and grammar. This realization had >> a profound impact upon me and my teaching. It suddenly hit me that about >> sixteen years ago, *I *was someone's student in a class I hated: college >> algebra. Of course the professor was better than I was at the subject; of >> course my lack of skill coupled with my hardheaded lack of interest >> frustrated my professor to no end. I sure he or she probably thought that >> not only I but also every other student in class was an absolute idiot. >> >> I've tried to remember that as I grow older as a teacher, my students stay >> the same age. I get better (maybe?), I get older, I get more comfortable in >> my area of specialization, but my freshmen always remain 18 or 19. >> >> --Jeff Newberry >> >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:08 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of >>> "why Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the >>> same. I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after >>> wave of these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of >>> skills in my classrooms. >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: >>> >>> Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are >>> no better and no worse than they've ever been. >>> >>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: >>> >>>> Education >>>> Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college >>>> students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time >>>> to rethink how we teach? >>>> -- >>>> http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >>>> >>>> >>>> ********* >>>> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>>> + Interviews >>>> >>>> Amy's Alias >>>> + http://amyking.org/ >>>> ******** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 12 08:03:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:03:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on Lit History In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DCBCC79.4030501@nut-n-but.net> It's from 1993 at http://writing.upenn.edu/library/Ward-Geoffrey_Language-Poetry.html It focuses on language poetry and seems quite long. I haven't had time to read it, but will. Hope also to respond to it. Interestingly, The author seems to have recognized that language poetry had become acadominant at about the same time I did--although leading language poets were clinging to their anti-establishment credentials. (Yes, Hal, one can earn credentials in credentionlessness--numerous folks at New-Poetry can qualify you for them by their scorn for your art and opinions.) He also seems to have ignored pluraesthetic poetry. * *I also got a kick out of the following*: The poetic consensus *in America, one that held steady for around forty years, involved the antagonistic but balanced co-existence of an establishment literature (epitomised first by Auden, finally by Lowell) and a loosely left-Bohemian opposition, represented by Donald Allen's famous anthology /The New American Poetry/. The continuum suggested is, for me, the one preceding mine from Wilbur to Ashbery, and seems to me based on the same way of considering historiacl trends in poetry. Sloppier, though, and without a good name. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Thu May 12 08:51:13 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:51:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> About 30 years ago I was writing a weekly newspaper column right after grad school, and I interviewed a retired professor at the University of Massachusetts, who had published one of the sanest books on teaching composition that I ever read. His name was Ellsworth Barnard, and the book is *English for Everybody.* Barnard started teaching university students in I think the 1930s. I asked him about the universal cry of declining standards that we were hearing at the time from all sorts of academics and journalists. He dismissed such opinions, characterizing them as nothing but golden-age nostalgia. Of course there are variations from school to school, always, and no doubt some broad-scale cultural shifts in progress that we're too close to diagnose accurately. But in terms of basic literacy and writing ability, on average I don't think comparable students today are much different from how they were in 1978, at least. Or so it seems to someone who's been teaching composition (at a number of schools ) since 1978. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 11, 2011, at 12:16 PM, "Jeff Newberry" wrote: > I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, etc. > > Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; I was changing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu May 12 09:04:31 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 05:04:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: The writing skills of incoming freshman at the University where I've been working for almost 20 years now has declined. It seems obvious to most of us, but has been confirmed a few times over the past five years by graduate studies of freshman comp writing samples collected since the early 60s. There are the usual caveats, though, and the anti-golden-ageists who rely on the same kind of flawed, assumptive, logic as their enemy, the golden-ageists, will maintain it was never thus so it isn't now. The issue is complicated, though. The most cited study seems to be the big De Paul study which essentially endorsed the "no significant difference" phenomenon, though again there are caveats (it primarily measured "formal errors" rather than attempting a qualitative assessment). Other studies, particularly those which examine writing in specific disciplines and so (I think) do a better job looking at qualitative issues beyond grammar and spelling, have supported the idea of a decline in writing skills. c From almaginnes at aol.com Thu May 12 09:27:26 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDEBF782EF91E-D84-10783@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Things were always better back then. The music was better, children were obedient, and we all split wood before we walked eight miles to school barefoot in the snow. -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 8:50 am Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English About 30 years ago I was writing a weekly newspaper column right after grad school, and I interviewed a retired professor at the University of Massachusetts, who had published one of the sanest books on teaching composition that I ever read. His name was Ellsworth Barnard, and the book is *English for Everybody.* Barnard started teaching university students in I think the 1930s. I asked him about the universal cry of declining standards that we were hearing at the time from all sorts of academics and journalists. He dismissed such opinions, characterizing them as nothing but golden-age nostalgia. Of course there are variations from school to school, always, and no doubt some broad-scale cultural shifts in progress that we're too close to diagnose accurately. But in terms of basic literacy and writing ability, on average I don't think comparable students today are much different from how they were in 1978, at least. Or so it seems to someone who's been teaching composition (at a number of schools ) since 1978. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 11, 2011, at 12:16 PM, "Jeff Newberry" wrote: I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, etc. Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; I was changing. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 12 09:50:49 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English Message-ID: <5600027.1305208250158.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu May 12 09:55:02 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:55:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library In-Reply-To: <4DCADE17.60504@louisiana.edu> References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu> <4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu> <548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> <8CDDC8DA4CB1718-1B68-89A7C@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> <4DCADE17.60504@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Jim -- is that NewPo list of books about poetry still up somewhere? These all look like good additions to it. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I hope you're getting some back-channel responses from real prosody > experts. I'm not one, but I've checked through the texts I've got on hand, > and couldn't find references to Baum's book. This is very odd, since most of > my reading in prosody concerns the same musical analogies that inform his > work--which I've browsed and downloaded from Project Gutenberg. Here are > some others that I found useful. They range from the quaintly historical > (though sometimes these are pretty fascinating; I've provided dates for > these) to the heavy-duty contemporary (Cureton): > > Cureton, Richard.* Rhythmic Phrasing in English Verse.* > > Halle, Morris & Samuel Jay Keyser. *English stress; its form, its growth, > and its role in verse*. > > Hertz, David Michael. *The Tuning of the Word: The Musico-Literary Poetics > of the Symbolist Movement.* > > Jourdain, Robert.* Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy.* > > Khan, Hazrat Inayat.* Mysticism of Sound and Music.* > > Kirby-Smith, H. T.* **The **Celestial Twins: Poetry and Music through the > Ages.* > > Lanier, Sidney.* Science of English Verse, The.* (1880). > > Raymond, George Lansing, *Poetry as Representative Art *(1899).* > * > > Raymond, George Lansing, *Rhythm and Harmony in Poetry and Music, Together > with Music as a Representative Art;* *Two Essays in Comparative Aesthetics > *(1895).* > * > > Say, Samuel. *Poems on Several Occasions and Two Critical Essays.*Includes ?An Essay on the Harmony, Variety, and Power of Numbers, Whether in > Prose or Verse? (1745; available for download from Google Books). > > Steele, Joshua. *Prosodia rationalis* (1779). > > Winn, James Anderson. *Unsuspected eloquence : a history of the relations > between poetry and music.* > > > > > > > On 5/9/2011 1:25 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Question for the 'prosody wonks' on this list: I just picked up a copy of > Principles of English Versification by Paull Franklin Baum (c1923). > I'm not too far into it yet, but it seems to be an excellent treatise on > the subject. What is the reputation of this book among versification > specialists? > > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 2:20 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library > > Got that one on v2009 list... > > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 > But keep 'em coming...still compiling v2011. > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] problem poem > > Poetry and the Fate of the Senses by Susan Stewart should be added to the > list ... > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu May 12 09:53:40 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 06:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <470649.69909.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> There is also a greater number of people entering college now. An Associate's or Bachelor's degree today is about equivalent to what a high school diploma represented in the 50s. Further, not as many people go into the trades, either, or work manufacturing jobs (since they're gone), so they go to college, whether they want to or need to or are ready to...they just go. And Anny, I know what you mean about an era producing very few geniuses. I'm constantly looking around to try to find some others I can talk to, but it's slim pickings. JohnJ ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 2:10:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English I have also been a teacher for so many years. I [really] taught Shakespeare at the age of 14/15 to 18-19 year old students because I was the only one around that place who spoke English, and it was more a matter of understanding 'words' rather than filtering experience through experience, although I tried my best in that area as well. I agree with both, Tad and Jeff. And I would also like to add that an era produces very few geniuses, and very probably Fate does not put them all together in the same class and does not offer them to the same teacher year after year. There is a saying in Italy that goes, 'I am teaching, not working.' Thus, a little patience might help. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, etc. > >Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; I was changing. The longer I >teach, the more comfortable I get with the agreed-upon standards of English >grammar. As the years have gone by, I've simply become more aware of my >students' lack of skill in English and grammar. This realization had a profound >impact upon me and my teaching. It suddenly hit me that about sixteen years >ago, I was someone's student in a class I hated: college algebra. Of course >the professor was better than I was at the subject; of course my lack of skill >coupled with my hardheaded lack of interest frustrated my professor to no end. >I sure he or she probably thought that not only I but also every other student >in class was an absolute idiot. > >I've tried to remember that as I grow older as a teacher, my students stay the >same age. I get better (maybe?), I get older, I get more comfortable in my area >of specialization, but my freshmen always remain 18 or 19. > > >--Jeff Newberry > > > >On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:08 PM, David Graham wrote: > >That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of "why >Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the same. > I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after wave of >these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of skills in >my classrooms. >> >> >> >> >>======================================== >>David Graham >>grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >>Home Page: >>http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> >>Poetry Library: >>http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >>Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are no >>better and no worse than they've ever been. >>> >>> >>>On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: >>> >>>EducationTuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET >>>>Death to high school English >>>>My college students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is >>>>it time to rethink how we teach? >>>> >>>>-- >>>>http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>********* >>>>VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>>>+ Interviews >>>> >>>> >>>>Amy's Alias >>>>+ http://amyking.org/ >>>>******** >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is >what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from >which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own >conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 12 10:08:24 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 10:08:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library In-Reply-To: References: <468156.2980.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4DC45853.4040402@louisiana.edu><4DC4CA22.5050908@louisiana.edu><548822.71664.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDDC8CE3FF86DE-1B68-897D0@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com><8CDDC8DA4CB1718-1B68-89A7C@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com><4DCADE17.60504@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDDEC5314BADAC-10C0-24162@webmail-d144.sysops.aol.com> Anny put up the 2009 version on her site. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=3126 Stay tuned for update by early summer. -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 9:55 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ars Poetica Library Jim -- is that NewPo list of books about poetry still up somewhere? These all look like good additions to it. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: I hope you're getting some back-channel responses from real prosody experts. I'm not one, but I've checked through the texts I've got on hand, and couldn't find references to Baum's book. This is very odd, since most of my reading in prosody concerns the same musical analogies that inform his work--which I've browsed and downloaded from Project Gutenberg. Here are some others that I found useful. They range from the quaintly historical (though sometimes these are pretty fascinating; I've provided dates for these) to the heavy-duty contemporary (Cureton): Cureton, Richard. Rhythmic Phrasing in English Verse. Halle, Morris & Samuel Jay Keyser. English stress; its form, its growth, and its role in verse. Hertz, David Michael. The Tuning of the Word: The Musico-Literary Poetics of the Symbolist Movement. Jourdain, Robert. Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy. Khan, Hazrat Inayat. Mysticism of Sound and Music. Kirby-Smith, H. T. The Celestial Twins: Poetry and Music through the Ages. Lanier, Sidney. Science of English Verse, The. (1880). Raymond, George Lansing, Poetry as Representative Art (1899). Raymond, George Lansing, Rhythm and Harmony in Poetry and Music, Together with Music as a Representative Art; Two Essays in Comparative Aesthetics (1895). Say, Samuel. Poems on Several Occasions and Two Critical Essays. Includes ?An Essay on the Harmony, Variety, and Power of Numbers, Whether in Prose or Verse? (1745; available for download from Google Books). Steele, Joshua. Prosodia rationalis (1779). Winn, James Anderson. Unsuspected eloquence : a history of the relations between poetry and music. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 12 12:24:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 12:24:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Grennan_=E2=80=98to_paint_the_walls?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99_with_his_poetry?= Message-ID: <8CDDED840D4EA17-B7C-2973C@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com> http://www.buffalonews.com/entertainment/books-poetry/article421000.ece Grennan ?to paint the walls? with his poetry By Anne Neville Published: May 12, 2011, 12:00 AM For acclaimed Irish poet Eamon Grennan, inspiration usually begins with small things ?from ?lichen-daubed? rocks to ?the butterfly winged with light.? Yet with those evocative images as his starting point, Grennan?s poetry guides the reader to a world of deep connection and delight. ?I don?t think of myself so much as a nature poet, in quotation marks, as somebody who writes out of the landscape that he inhabits -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu May 12 12:35:05 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:35:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Willow's Whisper Message-ID: _____________________________________ THE WILLOW'S WHISPER : A Transatlantic Compilation of Poetry from Ireland & Native America "This thought provoking and imaginative anthology brings poems and poets from diverse sociolinguistic and cultural traditions together into dialogue. Central yet marginalized within their respective discourses, the genus of this anthology is to change the dominant focus. By pairing these ?non-canonical? texts, this anthology opens new vistas, and makes new connections amplifying human and cultural concerns all too often lost in the official Anglo-American literary and cultural canon." ** Dr Brian ? Conchubhair, of the University of Notre Dame, Indiana. THE WILLOW'S WHISPER (Cambridge Scholars Publishing) edited by Jill O?Mahony & M?che?l ? hAodha, will be launched on Friday 13 May 2011 at 7:00 p.m. in The Book Centre, 25 Barronstrand Street, Waterford, Ireland. THE WILLOW'S WHISPER brings the voices of 35 poets from the Irish and Native American communities together in one compilation. This collection of poems provides an aesthetic commentary on the potential which is beyond and within the everyday. From Gabriel Rosenstock and Biddy Jenkinson to N. Scott Momaday and Karenne Wood, and from Joy Harjo to Paddy Bushe and Biddy Jenkinson, this compilation showcases poetry from the finest poets in both communities. Native America and Ireland : you might ask ... What are the commonalities? Furthermore : why bring them together through poetry? THE WILLOW'S WHISPER THE WILLOW'S WHISPER _____________________________________ From tad at opus40.org Thu May 12 13:03:16 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:03:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <330462.73326.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <8CDD980B62AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com> <4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net> <909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net> <330462.73326.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Shouldn't Bob have a word for this? Maybe a gurook? On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:48 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Then I'll stick with the cranks. Too many kooks consider themselves to be > gurus, spiritual advisors beyond the realm of science. > Mind you, I don't blindly trust science, but used wisely, there's no better > tool. And as for kooks and gurus, I can think of a few poets who fall into > this catagory, but I won't mention names. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Mon, May 9, 2011 7:26:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) > > On 5/9/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > We need more cranks. D.H. Lawrence was my favorite crank. > What exactly is a crank? Is a crank a person who one may consider as > devoutly unorthodox? > > . > You probably shouldn't put a question like that where I can see it, > Stephen. Needless to say, I have my own definition of it: a crank, > generally speaking, is a pseudosopher or seeker of pseudo knowledge the way > a verosopher is a seeker of true knowledge, who believes he is rational, and > is very rational when logic supports him, but not when it doesn't; and his > premises are usually unsound, and always uncertified; there is also the > kook, a pseudosopher who doesn't care about reason, spinning completely > loony theories out of nothing. The crank will tell you he's scientific, the > kook will tell you he's superior to science. > > I think you can have a theory that's highly unorthodox and still not be a > crank if your reasoning is sound, breaks no affirmed laws of science, and is > based on premises that are possible. You can also be wrong and not a > crank. Or a crank and right--though never for the reasons you believe. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu May 12 13:39:45 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 12:39:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <5600027.1305208250158.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <5600027.1305208250158.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DCC1B61.1000409@louisiana.edu> Mark's analysis nails the broad trajectory of writing competencies. What he says about social mobility and reading and the transformative effect of the GI Bill makes perfect sense. When you factor in Great Society policy and social aspirations, and the digital revolution, and, on the negative side, the reactionary dispositions of Reaganite social and educational attitudes, it's easy to see how writing skills might (again, broadly) adjust themselves to large historical patterns and critical events. After studying at a community college, a major small liberal arts university, and an excellent large state university, I taught composition (before I swore a renunciatory blood-oath) at several large and very good state universities, at a small state college in a city that also contains a major state university, at a notorious private diploma-mill, at a small upper-middle-class Catholic college, in a special college dedicated to upgrading the skills of under-achieving freshmen at a large urban university, and at a mid-sized, mostly working-class State University with fairly low student expectations, from 1976 to about 1994 (in New York, Massachusetts, Florida, and Pennsylvania). I'd say that I saw more differences between the /kinds /of writing problems at those schools (that is, their local distinctions, from what Branch Rickey called, in Jacky Robinson, "errors of enthusiasm," to a dismissal of literacy as non-job-related, to general slacker disregard, and so on)--than I saw historical changes. I may be saying that, in the years I taught composition, student writing, with local variations, seemed to be defined by more or less constant, quite predictable problems. So now I /don't /teach composition (except, it seems, remedially, to people writing dissertations). Most of my observations now come not from the trenches, but from the relatively high ground of introductory and advanced courses for English majors at a state university. And every semester, gradually worsening over the sixteen years I've been here, I see those old problems in greater concentration and wider distribution, and I see new problems as well. I wonder whether my colleague, Skip Fox, would agree, and I wonder what historical answer Mark would have for this. (Again, during the same span this university has shifted from open admissions to standard-based admissions, but has also admitted more students who have received college credit for work--often basic-writing work--done in high school.) It feels to me like a significant quantitative change, maybe precipitated by material changes in the social apparatus (those pesky computers, friending networks, and all-purpose phones, especially, but also new theories of pedagogy, attitudes to language, and styles of teaching), and somehow I feel that explaining it will require nuanced attention to a broader range of social factors than Mark has pointed out to us. (Of course, lists like this aren't necessarily the place for nuance.) It also seems to me worth thinking about the effects the gap between our linguistic expectations and our students' writing preparation has on the work of those of us who teach students interested in learning more about how "creative writing" might relate to their lives. Jerry On 5/12/2011 8:50 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > I only taught composition four or five times, starting in 1968, and I > can't say that I've noticed any trends. What I did notice, in those > classes and in lit and creative writing classes, is that the kids in > elite institutions came in better prepared and left better writers > than those at state colleges. Many of the elite kids had gone to > private schools or public schools in wealthy areas (I don't know if > it's still true, but until recently to teach at Bronxville High one > needed a PhD), but almost certainly more important is that they came > from homes full of books and newspapers and had parents who read. If > there have been changes, and I suspect there have been, though it > would take more than anecdotal evidence to prove it one way or > another, it's been in the demographics of university admissions and > the perceived purpose of education. The great expansion of university > education in the US came with the GI Bill following WWII--huge numbers > of returning GIs were offered an education at government expense. They > tended to do well, as older students still do. It was probably a > maturing experience being shot at for several years. > > Mixed with whatever love of learning motivated these students was the > sense that a university degree was, as it always had been, a social > class marker. That, and the education itself, could act as a bridge > into the middle class. The same was true for my parents, educated at > the then tuition-free City University of New York just pre-war, which > was filled with the children of immigrants clawing their way out of > poverty. > > Despite their lack of formal education, my grandparents, like most > Jewish and now East Asian immigrants, had a profound respect for > education, and their apartment was filled with books in several > languages. For Jewish men at least literacy, and literary exegesis, > were prescribed by the religion. And the women were no slouches > either. My maternal grandmother, whose formal education ended at 12, > read Tolstoy. > > In those days the more radical unions (my grandmother was ILGWU) ran > classes for their workers. The sense was that literacy, true literacy, > would acculturate the newcomers, most of whom were desperate to be > acculturated. > > I think the sense of what a university education is supposed to offer > has always been complex--education for its own sake, social marker, > job training have always cohabited somewhat uneasily. The balance > between these has shifted with the increased democratization of > education in the decades after the GI Bill; the importance of > education as social marker and social rank as job qualification has > increased at the expense of a sense that education is a good in > itself. The degree, the piece of paper, now for many largely outweighs > in value whatever learning was involved in achieving it. The kids who > still value education for its own sake tend to be the kids from homes > with books. > > It doesn't take a whole lot of books. To read the letters of farm boys > and workers caught up in the civil war is revelatory. Despite the > fanciful spelling, they could write, lucidly and movingly. The only > books they had read at home were often the KIng James Bible and > Pilgrims Progress, but they had really read them, over and over again > (an aside: everyone should read Pilgrims Progress, both parts. Talk > about great prose!), and the slightly more privileged read Leslie's or > Putnam's Journal, where, among other things, they would find Dickens, > Melville and Hawthorne serialized. They knew that reading, certainly > the Bible and PP, was good for them. > > Before it became apparent that reading matter will be increasingly > digitized, it occurred to me that handing out books, any books, would > be a great aid to education--a hundred books and a simple bookcase for > every family in the US. Books have a talismanic quality, I think, that > draws people who live with them--sooner or later one is likely to open > them. > > Best, > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Graham, David" > Sent: May 12, 2011 8:51 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English > > About 30 years ago I was writing a weekly newspaper column right > after grad school, and I interviewed a retired professor at the > University of Massachusetts, who had published one of the sanest > books on teaching composition that I ever read. His name was > Ellsworth Barnard, and the book is *English for Everybody.* > Barnard started teaching university students in I think the 1930s. > > I asked him about the universal cry of declining standards that we > were hearing at the time from all sorts of academics and > journalists. He dismissed such opinions, characterizing them as > nothing but golden-age nostalgia. > > Of course there are variations from school to school, always, and > no doubt some broad-scale cultural shifts in progress that we're > too close to diagnose accurately. But in terms of basic literacy > and writing ability, on average I don't think comparable students > today are much different from how they were in 1978, at least. > > Or so it seems to someone who's been teaching composition (at a > number of schools ) since 1978. > > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 11, 2011, at 12:16 PM, "Jeff Newberry" > > wrote: > >> I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been >> teaching full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I >> began to suspect that my students were getting worse. I lamented >> over grading essays, often putting off stacks for weeks because >> grading so depressed me. I blamed all kinds of things for what I >> perceived as my students' growing lack of writing skill: No >> Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, etc. >> >> Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; /I /was changing. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 12 16:40:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:40:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><8CDD980B62 AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net><909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net><330462.73326.qm @web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DCC45DB.80703@nut-n-but.net> On 5/12/2011 12:03 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Shouldn't Bob have a word for this? Maybe a gurook? The gurus of new age spiritualism are kooks--believers in something that transcends rationality and perceptual reality. Dr. Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu May 12 15:39:20 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 21:39:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <8CDDEBF782EF91E-D84-10783@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> <46C98FBB-39E2-4B81-900D-B8C3C070691D@ripon.edu> <8CDDEBF782EF91E-D84-10783@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Believe it or not, but they tell the same story in the Alps. On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:27 PM, wrote: > Things were always better back then. The music was better, children were > obedient, and we all split wood before we walked eight miles to school > barefoot in the snow. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham, David > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 8:50 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English > > About 30 years ago I was writing a weekly newspaper column right after > grad school, and I interviewed a retired professor at the University of > Massachusetts, who had published one of the sanest books on teaching > composition that I ever read. His name was Ellsworth Barnard, and the book > is *English for Everybody.* Barnard started teaching university students in > I think the 1930s. > > I asked him about the universal cry of declining standards that we were > hearing at the time from all sorts of academics and journalists. He > dismissed such opinions, characterizing them as nothing but golden-age > nostalgia. > > Of course there are variations from school to school, always, and no > doubt some broad-scale cultural shifts in progress that we're too close to > diagnose accurately. But in terms of basic literacy and writing ability, on > average I don't think comparable students today are much different from how > they were in 1978, at least. > > Or so it seems to someone who's been teaching composition (at a number of > schools ) since 1978. > > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 11, 2011, at 12:16 PM, "Jeff Newberry" > wrote: > > I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching > full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that > my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often > putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all > kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing > skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, > etc. > > Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; *I *was changing. > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 12 16:47:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:47:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DCC4769.8060704@nut-n-but.net> I believe the only way you can judge schools is by what their graduates do twenty or more years later. So far as the teaching of English is concerned, a good but very rough way to see how effective it is might be to compare the number of people making a living as writers from year to year. If, in 2031, the number is significantly less than was in 2011, per person in the growing population, then one might have a reasonable argument that the teaching was flawed (though one far from conclusive because of the many variables). Another thought: because I constantly make mistakes in my writing although I knows my grammer, I wonder how many of the hilarious mistakes attributed to school children are legitimate--i.e., not due just to the stress of being tested, or to a writing project so horribly dull one wants to get through it as fast as possible--or even rebelliousness. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu May 12 15:43:26 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 21:43:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English In-Reply-To: <470649.69909.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <228639.48117.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4B7FEAE3-58E6-4277-B345-12F46184FF8C@ripon.edu> <470649.69909.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: :-) Yes, unluckily quantity does not qualify quality. Free education, education for all, idealistically, but then if you are the actor in the midst, then you think some ideologies over and over again. On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:53 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > There is also a greater number of people entering college now. An > Associate's or Bachelor's degree today is about equivalent to what a high > school diploma represented in the 50s. Further, not as many people go into > the trades, either, or work manufacturing jobs (since they're gone), so they > go to college, whether they want to or need to or are ready to...they just > *go*. > > And Anny, I know what you mean about an era producing very few geniuses. > I'm constantly looking around to try to find some others I can talk to, but > it's slim pickings. > > JohnJ > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, May 12, 2011 2:10:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] OT: Death to high school English > > I have also been a teacher for so many years. I [really] taught Shakespeare > at the age of 14/15 to 18-19 year old students because I was the only one > around *that place* who spoke English, and it was more a matter of > understanding 'words' rather than filtering experience through experience, > although I tried my best in that area as well. > I agree with both, Tad and Jeff. And I would also like to add that an era > produces very few geniuses, and very probably Fate does not put them all > together in the same class and does not offer them to the same teacher year > after year. > There is a saying in Italy that goes, 'I am teaching, not working.' Thus, a > little patience might help. > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> I've actually given this issue a lot of thought. I've been teaching >> full-time for nearly 10 years now. A few years ago I began to suspect that >> my students were getting worse. I lamented over grading essays, often >> putting off stacks for weeks because grading so depressed me. I blamed all >> kinds of things for what I perceived as my students' growing lack of writing >> skill: No Child Left Behind, lazy parenting, social promotion, etc, etc, >> etc. >> >> Then, it hit me. My students weren't changing; *I *was changing. The >> longer I teach, the more comfortable I get with the agreed-upon standards of >> English grammar. As the years have gone by, I've simply become more aware >> of my students' lack of skill in English and grammar. This realization had >> a profound impact upon me and my teaching. It suddenly hit me that about >> sixteen years ago, *I *was someone's student in a class I hated: college >> algebra. Of course the professor was better than I was at the subject; of >> course my lack of skill coupled with my hardheaded lack of interest >> frustrated my professor to no end. I sure he or she probably thought that >> not only I but also every other student in class was an absolute idiot. >> >> I've tried to remember that as I grow older as a teacher, my students stay >> the same age. I get better (maybe?), I get older, I get more comfortable in >> my area of specialization, but my freshmen always remain 18 or 19. >> >> --Jeff Newberry >> >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:08 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> That has been my experience, too. Every year there blooms a new crop of >>> "why Johnny can't read/write" articles, and they're always more or less the >>> same. I've been teaching now for over 30 years, and have seen wave after >>> wave of these essays and studies without noticing any precipitous decline of >>> skills in my classrooms. >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Tad Richards wrote: >>> >>> Same old shit. It's the same complaint every generation. My students are >>> no better and no worse than they've ever been. >>> >>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:43 PM, amy king wrote: >>> >>>> Education >>>> Tuesday, May 10, 2011 20:30 ET Death to high school English My college >>>> students don't understand commas, far less how to write an essay. Is it time >>>> to rethink how we teach? >>>> -- >>>> http://www.salon.com/life/education/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2011/05/10/death_to_high_school_english >>>> >>>> >>>> ********* >>>> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >>>> + Interviews >>>> >>>> Amy's Alias >>>> + http://amyking.org/ >>>> ******** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu May 12 16:09:17 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) In-Reply-To: <4DCC45DB.80703@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDD97C33A4DC9D-BD4-1A07B@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><8CDD980B62 AEF3B-BD4-1A8EB@TSTMAIL-D10.sysops.aol.com><4DC31A88.9020305@louisiana.edu> <4DC45A67.5070404@nut-n-but.net><909716.13002.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DC87824.2060709@nut-n-but.net><330462.73326.qm @web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DCC45DB.80703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <871678.35428.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've known one thing that transcends both rationality and perceptual reality, and that thing is narcotics. Very good narcotics. More to the point, narcotics is the thing that gives one the temporary illusion of transcending rationality and perceptual reality (not necessarily so bad a thing, that...). In fact, there's an old saying that once upon a time ordered my day to day existence: Reality is for people who can't handle drugs. It may come as no suprise that I didn't excell in highschool. I like the word gurook. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 4:40:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A Word that Made me Think of David Graham (W) On 5/12/2011 12:03 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Shouldn't Bob have a word for this? Maybe a gurook? The gurus of new age spiritualism are kooks--believers in something that transcends rationality and perceptual reality. Dr. Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 12 19:37:38 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Lost & Found, Series II: di Prima, Duncan, Randall, Rukeyser, & Spicer! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <891507.77674.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Ana Bo?i?evi? Dear Reader, Do you have your copy of ?Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative Series II chapbooks yet? For only $25, you will receive a set of seven beautifully printed chapbooks with poems, essays, lectures & translations by Diane di Prima, Robert Duncan, Margaret Randall, Muriel Rukeyser, and Jack Spicer: Selections from El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn 1962-1964 (Margaret Randall, visiting editor) Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D. (Ana Bozicevic, editor) Diane di Prima: R.D.?S H.D. (Ammiel Alcalay, editor) Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture (Ammiel Alcalay, Meira Levinson, Bradley Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, and Rachael Wilson, editors) Jack Spicer?s Beowulf: Selections (Parts I& II) (David Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds, guest editors) Muriel Rukeyser: Barcelona, 1936: Selections from the Spanish Civil War Archive (Rowena Kennedy-Epstein, editor) For those affiliated with an educational institution, the sets are a mere $20. Be sure to get the second series before it goes out of print ? the first printing of Series I is already a collector?s item. Your purchase will help us move on to the third series, which includes works by Lorine Niedecker, John Wieners, Ed Dorn, Essex Hemphill, Langston Hughes and others. You can order the books online at http://lostandfoundbooks.org/. Libraries and bookstores, please write to us for arrangements. Spread the word: we appreciate your interest and look forward to hearing from you! ~ Praise for Lost & Found A serious and worthy enterprise. ?The London Review of Books These chapbooks are a gold mine, so rich and important, and may well give rise to a new generation of writers. ?Diane di Prima Such a great pleasure to read these beautiful reclamations of mind and time and place. ?Anne Waldman What a brilliant cast of characters. Just exactly what one (myself) would like to read. ?Joanne Kyger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 13 14:04:21 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?TONIGHT!__MEGA_WOMEN=E2=80=99S_READING_?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_Joanna_Penn_Cooper_=7E_Claire_Donato_=7E_Farrah_Field?= =?utf-8?q?_=7E_Molly_Gaudry_=7E_Hailey_Higdon_=7E_Anne_Cecilia_Holmes_=7E?= =?utf-8?q?_Brenda_Iijima_=7E_Julia_Story?= Message-ID: <666390.51478.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> STAIN OF POETRY "WEIRDO AND BEAUTIFUL POETS. GOOD TIMES." ? BLACKBOOK ?friday the 13th is your lucky day.? ? STAIN OF POETRY MEGA WOMEN?S READING ? Joanna Penn Cooper ~ Claire Donato ~ Farrah Field ~ Molly Gaudry ~ Hailey Higdon ~ Anne Cecilia Holmes ~ Brenda Iijima ~ Julia?Story 7 PM on May 13th @?Goodbye Blue Monday?? Bushwick, Brooklyn with Joanna Penn Cooper?s creative and critical work has appeared or is forthcoming in a number of journals, including?Poetry International, Opium, Supermachine, Pleiades, elimae, and?Boog City. Her second chapbook of poetry and short prose pieces,?Mesmer, was published in April 2010 by Dancing Girl Press. Joanna?s full-length poetry collection,?How We Mostly Were, was a finalist for the Kinereth Gensler Award from Alice James Books in December 2010. A Postdoctoral Teaching Fellow at Fordham University, Joanna lives in New York City and has a blog at joannapenncooper.blogspot.com. Claire Donato lives in Brooklyn, NY. Her prose and poetry has recently appeared or is forthcoming in Gulf Coast, Black Warrior Review, Boston Review, Denver Quarterly and Action Yes. She holds an MFA in Literary Arts from Brown University, is a member of the Electronic Literature Organization, co-edits Dewclaw and teaches at Eugene Lang College (The New School for Liberal Arts) in New York City. Her hometown is Pittsburgh, PA. Farrah Field is the author of?Rising?(Four Way Books, 2009) and Parents (Immaculate Disciples Press, 2011). Two of her poems will appear in?The Best American Poetry 2011?and more of her work is forthcoming in?Fou, Dewclaw, and?Drunken Boat. She lives in Brooklyn where she co-hosts an event series called Yardmeter Editions. Her second book of poetry (Four Way Books) is forthcoming in 2012. She occasionally blogs at?www.adultish.blogspot.com?and is co-owner of Berl?s Brooklyn Poetry Shop. Molly Gaudry is the author of the verse novel?We Take Me Apart?and her website is?mollygaudry.com. Hailey Higdon is the author of the chapbook?How To Grow Almost Everything, recently published by Agnes Fox Press. She runs What To Us (press) and is currently publishing chapbooks by emergent female poets in a series called THE DIMES. She lives in Philadelphia, PA. Anne Cecelia Holmes is the managing editor of?jubilat. Recent poems have appeared or are forthcoming in?SUPERMACHINE, notnostrums, and Sir!.?With Lily Ladewig she is co-author of the chapbook?I Am A Natural Wonder?(Blue Hour Press 2011). She lives in Northampton, MA. Brenda Iijima is the author of?Around Sea?(O Books),?Animate, Inanimate Aims(Litmus Press),?revv. you?ll-ution?(Displaced Press) and If Not Metamorphic(Ahsahta Press) as well as numerous chapbooks and artist?s books. She is also the editor of the eco language reader (Nightboat Books and PP at YYL). Presently she is working on a body of work titled?Untimely Death is Driven Out Beyond the Horizon?which focuses on psycho-geologic properties of space, communication beyond event horizons, Leslie Scalapino, Antigone and the toxicity of war. She is the editor of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (http://yoyolabs.com/). Julia Story?s first collection,?Post Moxie, was the recipient of Sarabande Books? 2009 Kathryn A. Morton Prize and Ploughshares? 2010 John C. Zacharis First Book Award, and was named one of Coldfront?s Top 30 Poetry Books of 2010. Her recent work has appeared in?The Paris Review, Octopus, and?Salt Hill. She is currently working on her next collection, tentatively titled?Red Town. A native of Indiana, she now lives in Somerville, Massachusetts. - Hide quoted text -at Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway (corner of Dodworth St) Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013?(718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave or J train to Kosciusko St Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds www.stainofpoetry.com ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 13 14:29:01 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 11:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Today in The Nation -- "Faulty Towers: The Crisis in Higher Education" Message-ID: <63864.44977.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> EXCERPTS: Instead of replacing retirees with new tenure-eligible hires, departments gradually shifted the teaching load to part-timers: adjuncts, postdocs, graduate students. From 1991 to 2003, the number of full-time faculty members increased by 18 percent. The number of part-timers increased by 87 percent?to almost half the entire faculty. But as Jack Schuster and Martin Finkelstein point out in their comprehensive study The American Faculty (2006), the move to part-time labor is already an old story. Less visible but equally important has been the advent and rapid expansion of full-time positions that are not tenure-eligible. No one talks about this transformation?the creation of yet another academic underclass?and yet as far back as 1993, such positions already constituted the majority of new appointees. As of 2003, more than a third of full-time faculty were working off the tenure track. By the same year, tenure-track professors?the ?normal? kind of academic appointment?represented no more than 35 percent of the American faculty. The reasons for these trends can be expressed in a single word, or buzzword: efficiency. Contingent academic labor, as non-tenure-track faculty, part-time and full-time, are formally known, is cheaper to hire and easier to fire. It saves departments money and gives them greater flexibility in staffing courses. Over the past twenty years, in other words?or really, over the past forty?what has happened in academia is what has happened throughout the American economy. Good, secure, well-paid positions?tenured appointments in the academy, union jobs on the factory floor?are being replaced by temporary, low-wage employment. * * * They?re doing exactly what we always complain our brightest students don?t do: eschewing the easy bucks of Wall Street, consulting or corporate law to pursue their ideals and be of service to society. Academia may once have been a cushy gig, but now we?re talking about highly talented young people who are willing to spend their 20s living on subsistence wages when they could be getting rich (and their friends are getting rich), simply because they believe in knowledge, ideas, inquiry; in teaching, in following their passion. To leave more than half of them holding the bag at the end of it all, over 30 and having to scrounge for a new career, is a human tragedy. Sure, lots of people have it worse. But here?s another reason to care: it?s also a social tragedy, and not just because it represents a colossal waste of human capital. If we don?t make things better for the people entering academia, no one?s going to want to do it anymore. And then it won?t just be the students who are suffering. Scholarship will suffer, which means the whole country will. Knowledge, as we?re constantly told, is a nation?s most important resource, and the great majority of knowledge is created in the academy?now more than ever, in fact, since industry is increasingly outsourcing research to universities where, precisely because graduate students cost less than someone who gets a real salary, it can be conducted on the cheap. (Bell Labs, once the flagship of industrial science, is a shell of its former self, having suffered years of cutbacks before giving up on fundamental research altogether.) It isn?t just the sciences that matter; it is also the social sciences and the humanities. And it isn?t just the latter that are suffering. Basic physics in this country is all but dead. From 1971 to 2001, the number of bachelor?s degrees awarded in English declined by 20 percent, but the number awarded in math and statistics declined by 55 percent. The only areas of the liberal arts that saw an increase in BAs awarded were biology and psychology?and this at a time when aggregate enrollment expanded by something like 75 percent. On the work that is done in the academy depends the strength of our economy, our public policy and our culture. We need our best young minds going into atmospheric research and international affairs and religious studies, chemistry and ethnography and art history. By pursuing their individual interests, narrowly understood, departments are betraying both the values they are pledged to uphold?the pursuit of knowledge, the spirit of critical inquiry, the extension of the humanistic tradition?and the nation they exist to serve. * * * What we have seen instead over the past forty years, in addition to the raising of a reserve army of contingent labor, is a kind of administrative elephantiasis, an explosion in the number of people working at colleges and universities who aren?t faculty, full-time or part-time, of any kind. From 1976 to 2001, the number of nonfaculty professionals ballooned nearly 240 percent, growing more than three times as fast as the faculty. Coaching staffs and salaries have grown without limit; athletic departments are virtually separate colleges within universities now, competing (successfully) with academics. The size of presidential salaries?more than $1 million in several dozen cases?has become notorious. Nor is it only the presidents; the next six most highly paid administrative officers at Yale averaged over $430,000 in 2007. As Gaye Tuchman explains in Wannabe U (2009), a case study in the sorrows of academic corporatization, deans, provosts and presidents are no longer professors who cycle through administrative duties and then return to teaching and research. Instead, they have become a separate stratum of managerial careerists, jumping from job to job and organization to organization like any other executive: isolated from the faculty and its values, loyal to an ethos of short-term expansion, and trading in the business blather of measurability, revenue streams, mission statements and the like. They do not have the long-term health of their institutions at heart. They want to pump up the stock price (i.e., U.S. News and World Report ranking) and move on to the next fat post. * * * What we have in academia, in other words, is a microcosm of the American economy as a whole: a self-enriching aristocracy, a swelling and increasingly immiserated proletariat, and a shrinking middle class. The same devil?s bargain stabilizes the system: the middle, or at least the upper middle, the tenured professoriate, is allowed to retain its prerogatives?its comfortable compensation packages, its workplace autonomy and its job security?in return for acquiescing to the exploitation of the bottom by the top, and indirectly, the betrayal of the future of the entire enterprise. * * * But the tenure system, which is already being eroded by the growth of contingent labor, is not the only thing that is under assault in the top-down, corporatized academy. As Cary Nelson explains in No University Is an Island (2010), shared governance?the principle that universities should be controlled by their faculties, which protects academic values against the encroachments of the spreadsheet brigade?is also threatened by the changing structure of academic work. Contingent labor undermines it both directly?no one asks an adjunct what he thinks of how things run?and indirectly. More people chasing fewer jobs means that everyone is squeezed for extra productivity, just like at Wal-Mart. As of 1998, faculty at four-year schools worked an average of about seven hours more per week than they had in 1972 (for a total of more than forty-nine hours a week; the stereotype of the lazy academic is, like that of the welfare queen, a politically useful myth). Not surprisingly, they also reported a shrinking sense of influence over campus affairs. Who?s got the time? Academic labor is becoming like every other part of the American workforce: cowed, harried, docile, disempowered. In macropolitical terms, the erosion of tenure and shared governance undermines the power of a large body of liberal professionals. In this it resembles the campaign against teachers unions. Tenure, in fact, is a lot like unionization: imperfect, open to corruption and abuse, but incomparably better than the alternative. Indeed, tenure is what professors have instead of unions (at least at private universities, where they?re banned by law from organizing). As for shared governance, it is nothing other than one of the longest-standing goals of the left: employee control of the workplace. Yes, professors have it better than a lot of other workers, including a lot of others in the academy. But the answer, for the less advantaged, is to organize against the employers who?ve created the situation, not drag down the relatively privileged workers who aren?t yet suffering as badly: to level up, in other words, not down. Here we come to the most important issue facing American higher education. Public institutions enroll about three-quarters of the nation?s college students, and public institutions are everywhere under financial attack. As Nancy Folbre explains in Saving State U (2010), a short, sharp, lucid account, spending on higher education has been falling as a percentage of state budgets for more than twenty years, to about two-thirds of what it was in 1980. The average six-year graduation rate at state schools is now a dismal 60 percent, a function of class size and availability, faculty accessibility, the use of contingent instructors and other budget-related issues. Private universities actually lobby against public funding for state schools, which they see as competitors. In any case, a large portion of state scholarship aid goes to students at private colleges (in some cases, more than half)?a kind of voucher system for higher education. Meanwhile, public universities have been shifting their financial aid criteria from need to merit to attract applicants with higher scores (good old U.S. News again), who tend to come from wealthier families. Per-family costs at state schools have soared in recent years, from 18 percent of income for those in the middle of the income distribution in 1999 to 25 percent in 2007. Estimates are that over the past decade, between 1.4 million and 2.4 million students have been prevented from going to college for financial reasons?about 50 percent more than during the 1990s. And of course, in the present climate of universal fiscal crisis, it is all about to get a lot worse. * * * My state of Oregon, a chronic economic underperformer, has difficulty attracting investment, not because its corporate taxes are high?they?re among the lowest?but because its workforce is poorly educated. So it will be for the nation as a whole. Our college-completion rate has fallen from second to eighth. And we are not just defunding instruction; we are defunding research, the creation of knowledge itself. * * * Yet the liberal arts, as we know, are dying. All the political and parental pressure is pushing in the other direction, toward the ?practical,? narrowly conceived: the instrumental, the utilitarian, the immediately negotiable. Colleges and universities are moving away from the liberal arts toward professional, technical and vocational training. Last year, the State University of New York at Albany announced plans to close its departments of French, Italian, Russian, classics and theater?a wholesale slaughter of the humanities. When Garland enumerates the fields a state legislature might want to encourage its young people to enter, he lists ?engineering, agriculture, nursing, math and science education, or any other area of state importance.? Apparently political science, philosophy, history and anthropology, among others, are not areas of state importance. Zemsky wants to consider reducing college to three years?meaning less time for young people to figure out what to study, to take courses in a wide range of disciplines, to explore, to mature, to think. When politicians, from Barack Obama all the way down, talk about higher education, they talk almost exclusively about math and science. Indeed, technology creates the future. But it is not enough to create the future. We also need to organize it, as the social sciences enable us to do. We need to make sense of it, as the humanities enable us to do. A system of higher education that ignores the liberal arts, as Jonathan Cole points out in The Great American University (2009), is what they have in China, where they don?t want people to think about other ways to arrange society or other meanings than the authorized ones. A scientific education creates technologists. A liberal arts education creates citizens: people who can think broadly and critically about themselves and the world. But leadership will have to come from somewhere else, as well. Just as in society as a whole, the academic upper middle class needs to rethink its alliances. Its dignity will not survive forever if it doesn?t fight for that of everyone below it in the academic hierarchy. (?First they came for the graduate students, and I didn?t speak out because I wasn?t a graduate student??) For all its pretensions to public importance (every professor secretly thinks he?s a public intellectual), the professoriate is awfully quiet, essentially nonexistent as a collective voice. If academia is going to once again become a decent place to work, if our best young minds are going to be attracted back to the profession, if higher education is going to be reclaimed as part of the American promise, if teaching and research are going to make the country strong again, then professors need to get off their backsides and organize: department by department, institution to institution, state by state and across the nation as a whole. Tenured professors enjoy the strongest speech protections in society. It?s time they started using them. ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE -- http://www.thenation.com/article/160410/faulty-towers-crisis-higher-education ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 13 18:31:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 18:31:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lesley Dill's work Message-ID: <8CDDFD494C18777-1A9C-B5E8@webmail-m144.sysops.aol.com> http://artblogjunkie.blogspot.com/2009/11/art-and-beauty-of-lesley-dills-language.html http://www.artnet.com/artwork/426101908/423794977/lesley-dill-poem-body-the-soul-has-bandaged-moments.html http://www.artnet.com/artwork/426095717/423794977/lesley-dill-ear-poem-i-heard-as-if-i-had-no-ear.html http://www.ipcny.org/exhib/exhib_cat_hp.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 13 20:09:52 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <8CDDFE26186198B-780-58400@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 13 22:11:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 22:11:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: self-publishing Message-ID: <8CDDFF36F660AAF-1A9C-11F95@webmail-m144.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/mayjune_2011/features/the_information_sage029137.php?page=4 ?Self-publishing,? Tufte told me, ?allowed for an incredible, bizarre fussiness.? The Visual Display of Quantitative Information came out in April 1983. To save costs, Tufte told the printer to bind only half of the initial print run of 5,000 copies. The book is now in its twentieth printing, and is one of the most successful self-published books of all time. As one of his close friends, the psychologist and author Paul Ekman, told me, Tufte is a ?profoundly unconventional fellow.? During those years in New Haven, Tufte would leave daily memos for his staff in a shoe box. One day, when he had been dating Druckrey for some time, his office manager came in to work, opened the shoe box, and saw a piece of torn paper that said, ?Find out how to get married.? \ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 14 10:34:20 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:34:20 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8CDDFE26186198B-780-58400@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDDFE26186198B-780-58400@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 11:22:50 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:22:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat May 14 13:11:04 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 10:11:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: Another difference: Ginsberg was a poet. Dylan was a song and dance man. Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:34:20 +0000 From: R Dillon To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat May 14 13:19:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 19:19:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? Message-ID: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sat May 14 13:50:18 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 12:50:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E4CB85E-F87E-4454-A934-CB16CDC68938@ripon.edu> And neither man was at his best when attempting the opposite--especially AG when he sang. And Dylan "is," of course.... =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 14, 2011, at 12:11 PM, "Crisman Cooley" wrote: > Another difference: Ginsberg was a poet. Dylan was a song and dance man. From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 13:53:53 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:53:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? Message-ID: <3908807.1305395633748.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat May 14 13:56:21 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:56:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Sat May 14 13:42:53 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:42:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Crisman Cooley Another difference: Ginsberg was a poet. Dylan was a song and dance man. ... on the other hand, Dylan was a troubadour of genius, whereas when it comes to Ginsberg ... The words, ?one trick pony? spring to mind. Maybe it?s just that Ginsberg doesn?t export well. Like baseball, he?s Big In America. Robin Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:34:20 +0000 From: R Dillon To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 14 14:11:52 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:11:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] wikihow.com/Be-a-Pirate In-Reply-To: <3908807.1305395633748.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3908807.1305395633748.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDE07988D5D060-202C-295D7@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> How to be a Pirate... 1) Saw off one of your legs and attach a peg to the stump. 2) Buy a parrot and allow it to perch on your shoulder. 3) Poke out an eye and cover the hole with a patch. 4) Answer "Har-har" to any query. 5) Raise the Jolly Roger! -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is hilarious! -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Sent: May 14, 2011 1:19 PM To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Subject: [New-Poetry] ? http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 14:24:33 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:24:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <12249371.1305397474454.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 14 14:42:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:42:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 14 14:44:17 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:44:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not to mention one of our favorite winter sports--waterboarding. Um, I mean snowboarding. Skateboarding's for warm weather. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Robin Hamilton < robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > *From:* Crisman Cooley > ** > Another difference: Ginsberg was a poet. Dylan was a song and dance man. > > ... on the other hand, Dylan was a troubadour of genius, whereas when it > comes to Ginsberg ... The words, ?one trick pony? spring to mind. > > Maybe it?s just that Ginsberg doesn?t export well. Like baseball, he?s Big > In America. > > Robin > > Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:34:20 +0000 > From: R Dillon > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between > Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the > former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the > Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, > with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." > The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan > works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. > Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, > another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from > another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence > Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. > > R.D. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 16:22:05 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <995209.39133.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? Dylan always struck me as overrated? Maybe Bob Marley during his short life gave Dylan a run for his money. In so far as "taking hold of the culture." As for Ginsberg, the guy was getting old and had to eventually settle as a back up singer for the Clash. Why doesn't Joni Mitchell get Dylan's media buzz ? She's his equal as a singer-songwriter, and a better musician. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 11:22:50 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: R Dillon >Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob >Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former >was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album >vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan >dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen >continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never >quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob >Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, >captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If >there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it >was an infernal one. > >R.D. >________________________________ To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 >From: jforjames at aol.com >Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj > > >Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the >culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has >appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a >Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a >National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In >last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded >influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic >Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the >man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself >has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets >drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. > > >Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of >the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that >Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." > > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 16:35:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <84639.96617.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Black is 2 feet from genius ... in 5 easy steps ... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 2:42:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > >-- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 16:41:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <84639.96617.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> <84639.96617.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <917352.27065.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... 'cause Johnny Cash wore black. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:35:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Black is 2 feet from genius ... in 5 easy steps ... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 2:42:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > >-- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 16:44:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <12249371.1305397474454.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12249371.1305397474454.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <258977.15605.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? Dylan always struck me as overrated? Maybe Bob Marley during his short life gave Dylan a run for his money. In so far as "taking hold of the culture." As for Ginsberg, the guy was getting old and had to eventually settle as a back up singer for the Clash. Why doesn't Joni Mitchell get Dylan's media buzz ? She's his equal as a singer-songwriter, and a better musician. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 2:24:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan A half-dozen or so of Allen's poems, mostly early, are really fine. Best read aloud, for the music. -----Original Message----- >From: Robin Hamilton >Sent: May 14, 2011 1:42 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > >From: Crisman Cooley > Another difference: Ginsberg was a poet. Dylan was a song and dance man. > >... on the other hand, Dylan was a troubadour of genius, whereas when it comes >to Ginsberg ... The words, ?one trick pony? spring to mind. > >Maybe it?s just that Ginsberg doesn?t export well. Like baseball, he?s Big In >America. > >Robin > > >Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:34:20 +0000 >From: R Dillon >To: >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob >Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former >was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville >album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with >Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The >latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, >but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, >whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui >generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region >and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was >animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. > >R.D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 16:45:18 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 14 16:53:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:53:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <917352.27065.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com><84639.96617.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <917352.27065.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDE0900CCF8292-202C-2DE39@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> I see a darkness... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h04I5MtuOMw -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? ... 'cause Johnny Cash wore black. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:35:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Black is 2 feet from genius ... in 5 easy steps ... From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 2:42:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet -- _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 16:53:47 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Well said. Landing any role with the Clash is not pathetic. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:45:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan No comment on your opinion of Dylan (tho I heartily agree about Bob Marley as his equal)--silly to argue about taste. Allen loved the limelight, but he also needed it, as he was sole support of a lot of people. He could be very foolish, but he could also be very wise, and rarely lacked courage--while most of us on this list probably shared (if we're old enough) a lot of his political stances, they remained vastly unpopular at large and dangerous to proclaim as publicly as he did. And he was unusually prescient in his criticism, from the left, of Castro. To think of him as at the end a pathetic old man is simply bizarre. He could still fill stadiums. -----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >Sent: May 14, 2011 4:22 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > > >Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the >culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? > >Dylan always struck me as overrated? Maybe Bob Marley during his short life gave >Dylan a run for his money. In so far as "taking hold of the culture." As for >Ginsberg, the guy was getting old and had to eventually settle as a back up >singer for the Clash. Why doesn't Joni Mitchell get Dylan's media buzz ? She's >his equal as a singer-songwriter, and a better musician. > > > > > ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 11:22:50 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > >Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of >things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the >poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), >including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, >though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and >working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't >treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war >against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on >Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately >apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow >of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled >until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then >lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a >dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. > >Best, > >Mark > >-----Original Message----- >>From: R Dillon >>Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan >> >> Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob >>Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former >>was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album >>vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan >>dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen >>continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never >>quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob >>Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, >>captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If >>there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it >>was an infernal one. >> >>R.D. >>________________________________ To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 >>From: jforjames at aol.com >>Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan >> >>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj >> >> >>Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the >>culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has >>appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a >>Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a >>National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In >>last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded >>influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic >>Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the >>man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself >>has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets >>drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. >> >> >>Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of >>the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that >>Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." >> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat May 14 16:08:51 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 15:08:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DCEE153.4010808@louisiana.edu> Yes, Anny, above all, use a thesaurus to find those beautiful words. I've been waiting and waiting for just such a list of instructions. Beautifully, Jerry On 5/14/2011 12:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 17:11:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <8CDE0900CCF8292-202C-2DE39@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com><84639.96617.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <917352.27065.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE0900CCF8292-202C-2DE39@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <576892.17300.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Suggestions??????????????????????? * 1:48Add toAdded to queue Johnny Cash: I See A Darkness Graphic Novel for...by thedigitallifestyle4,196 views ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:53:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? I see a darkness... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h04I5MtuOMw -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? ... 'cause Johnny Cash wore black. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:35:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Black is 2 feet from genius ... in 5 easy steps ... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 2:42:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > >-- > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 14 17:15:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <4DCEE153.4010808@louisiana.edu> References: <4DCEE153.4010808@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <428606.97759.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "There are several inspirational and talented writers in this world. Some have the patience and skills to write a novel. For others, they like a shortcut. To write a poem with beautiful verse and few words is great for those with little patience and know how to turn images into beautiful verse. Below are instructions for finding your inner poet." My last count, there's at least 2 dozen "talented and inspirational" writers in this world. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:08:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? Yes, Anny, above all, use a thesaurus to find those beautiful words. I've been waiting and waiting for just such a list of instructions. Beautifully, Jerry On 5/14/2011 12:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >star! > >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sat May 14 16:57:37 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 16:57:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Which poets drowned in lakes? From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 17:37:11 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:37:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <22387952.1305409031143.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Very careless ones. -----Original Message----- >From: David Weinstock >Sent: May 14, 2011 4:57 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > >Which poets drowned in lakes? >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From almaginnes at aol.com Sat May 14 17:54:44 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> Simply put, no Dylan then no Marley and no Joni Mitchell. As for why Joni Mitchell does not get the media attention Dylan does these days, she's put out one album in the last decade or so, and it wasn't very good. Since 1997's Time Out of Mind, Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has continued to tour. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Well said. Landing any role with the Clash is not pathetic. From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:45:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan No comment on your opinion of Dylan (tho I heartily agree about Bob Marley as his equal)--silly to argue about taste. Allen loved the limelight, but he also needed it, as he was sole support of a lot of people. He could be very foolish, but he could also be very wise, and rarely lacked courage--while most of us on this list probably shared (if we're old enough) a lot of his political stances, they remained vastly unpopular at large and dangerous to proclaim as publicly as he did. And he was unusually prescient in his criticism, from the left, of Castro. To think of him as at the end a pathetic old man is simply bizarre. He could still fill stadiums. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sent: May 14, 2011 4:22 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) takenhold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by theintellectual classes? Dylan always struck me as overrated? Maybe Bob Marley during his short life gave Dylan a run for his money. In so far as "taking hold of the culture." As for Ginsberg, the guy was getting old and had to eventually settle as a back up singer for the Clash. Why doesn't Joni Mitchell get Dylan's media buzz ? She's his equal as a singer-songwriter, and a better musician. From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 11:22:50 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat May 14 18:07:39 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 15:07:39 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Oddly, I misread your last sentence as "Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has continued to blur." - Jim On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM, wrote: > Simply put, no Dylan then no Marley and no Joni Mitchell. As for why Joni > Mitchell does not get the media attention Dylan does these days, she's put > out one album in the last decade or so, and it wasn't very good. Since > 1997's Time Out of Mind, Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has > continued to tour. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 4:57 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Well said. > Landing any role with the Clash is not pathetic. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, May 14, 2011 4:45:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > No comment on your opinion of Dylan (tho I heartily agree about Bob Marley > as his equal)--silly to argue about taste. > > Allen loved the limelight, but he also needed it, as he was sole support of > a lot of people. He could be very foolish, but he could also be very wise, > and rarely lacked courage--while most of us on this list probably shared (if > we're old enough) a lot of his political stances, they remained vastly > unpopular at large and dangerous to proclaim as publicly as he did. And he > was unusually prescient in his criticism, from the left, of Castro. > > To think of him as at the end a pathetic old man is simply bizarre. He > could still fill stadiums. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: May 14, 2011 4:22 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > > Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of > the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? > > Dylan always struck me as overrated? Maybe Bob Marley during his short life > gave Dylan a run for his money. In so far as "taking hold of the culture." > As for Ginsberg, the guy was getting old and had to eventually settle as a > back up singer for the Clash. Why doesn't Joni Mitchell get Dylan's media > buzz ? She's his equal as a singer-songwriter, and a better musician. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, May 14, 2011 11:22:50 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of > things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the > poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), > including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, > though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, > and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government > wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor > proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. > A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that > wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several > years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential > member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected > president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being > elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of > some other choice words for him. > > Best, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between > Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the > former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the > Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, > with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." > The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan > works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. > Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, > another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from > another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence > Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. > > R.D. > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj > > Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of > the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He > has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. > He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from > Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe > and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of > how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the > English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's > Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very > greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and > seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. > But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. > > Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large > chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It > is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal > seer." > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 18:10:17 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:10:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <25600254.1305411017689.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 14 18:10:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:10:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <30132324.1305411045541.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat May 14 18:14:35 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:14:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <22387952.1305409031143.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <22387952.1305409031143.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DCEFECB.7010305@louisiana.edu> The Lake Poets, of course. Oh, and Li Po. Jerry On 5/14/2011 4:37 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Very careless ones. > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: David Weinstock >> Sent: May 14, 2011 4:57 PM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan >> >> Which poets drowned in lakes? >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 14 18:39:29 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:39:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= Message-ID: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> The Angel in The Dream of Our Hangover by Mark Leidner Sator Press, 2011 http://www.satorpress.com/ - Here are few utterances from this book specifically related to poetry.., poetry is what follows you when you run from it poets are the unacknowledged law school students of the world if you want to write poetry, write prophecy; prophecy fails into poetry the poem is a form so fully itself, it throws into relief the true, unrealized form of the reader?s life one does not begin a poem, one abandon?s one life poetic language is a gem without edges poetry like the Midas of meaning; everything you reach for is dissolved in the spectacle of the gesture -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 14 18:54:27 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 17:54:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan & Ginsberg In-Reply-To: <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <12D6C1F1-8A2D-4270-81EB-6BC776F26F2D@ripon.edu> I heartily recommend the Sean Wilentz book mentioned, *Bob Dylan in America*. The chapter on Dylan & the Beats is especially good. I just taught Ginsberg this past semester. He was & continues to be a lightning rod for opinions from all quadrants of the political and poetical worlds. Not much to add to that debate at this point, but I will say that if you haven't re-visited his work in a while, especially the later stuff, I do recommend it. It's certainly commonplace to say that he peaked in the 1950s, or even that "Howl" is his only great poem, but that strikes me as a great oversimplification on two grounds. First, it's hardly fair to judge him by "Howl," since very few poets in any era ever write a single poem that makes that big a splash. It was a hard act to follow. And lest we forget, plenty of poets, some as great as Wordsworth or Frost, never managed to top their early successes: that's more than commonplace. Second, I would argue that there are very fine poems scattered through every one of Ginsberg's books. A great deal of mediocre stuff and worse, it's true, so it can be a hard slog to find the gems. That's hardly a rare thing in great poets, of course. But unless you are unwaveringly opposed to his *kind* of poetics, there are strong poems early to late. I tend to agree with something I think Helen Vendler wrote about AG, which was that he's often at his best not in his prophetic or his political modes, but when he writes descriptive lyrics. She praised his early poem "American Change," for instance, as an often overlooked gem, and I agree. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 14, 2011, at 4:54 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Simply put, no Dylan then no Marley and no Joni Mitchell. As for why Joni Mitchell does not get the media attention Dylan does these days, she's put out one album in the last decade or so, and it wasn't very good. Since 1997's Time Out of Mind, Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has continued to tour. > > > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj > > Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. > > Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 14 19:16:46 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:16:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan & Ginsberg In-Reply-To: <12D6C1F1-8A2D-4270-81EB-6BC776F26F2D@ripon.edu> References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> <12D6C1F1-8A2D-4270-81EB-6BC776F26F2D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Or what could be less Howlish than this: *First Party At Ken Kesey's With Hell's Angels* User Rating: 7.6 /10 (22 votes) - vote - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [image: 0]Print friendly version [image: 0]E-mail this poem to e friend [image: 0]Send this poem as eCard [image: 0]Add this poem to MyPoemList Cool black night thru redwoods cars parked outside in shade behind the gate, stars dim above the ravine, a fire burning by the side porch and a few tired souls hunched over in black leather jackets. In the huge wooden house, a yellow chandelier at 3 A.M. the blast of loudspeakers hi-fi Rolling Stones Ray Charles Beatles Jumping Joe Jackson and twenty youths dancing to the vibration thru the floor, a little weed in the bathroom, girls in scarlet tights, one muscular smooth skinned man sweating dancing for hours, beer cans bent littering the yard, a hanged man sculpture dangling from a high creek branch, children sleeping softly in their bedroom bunks. And 4 police cars parked outside the painted gate, red lights revolving in the leaves. December 1965 "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 5:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > I heartily recommend the Sean Wilentz book mentioned, *Bob Dylan in > America*. The chapter on Dylan & the Beats is especially good. > > I just taught Ginsberg this past semester. He was & continues to be a > lightning rod for opinions from all quadrants of the political and poetical > worlds. Not much to add to that debate at this point, but I will say that > if you haven't re-visited his work in a while, especially the later stuff, I > do recommend it. It's certainly commonplace to say that he peaked in the > 1950s, or even that "Howl" is his only great poem, but that strikes me as a > great oversimplification on two grounds. First, it's hardly fair to judge > him by "Howl," since very few poets in any era ever write a single poem that > makes that big a splash. It was a hard act to follow. And lest we forget, > plenty of poets, some as great as Wordsworth or Frost, never managed to top > their early successes: that's more than commonplace. > > Second, I would argue that there are very fine poems scattered through > every one of Ginsberg's books. A great deal of mediocre stuff and worse, > it's true, so it can be a hard slog to find the gems. That's hardly a rare > thing in great poets, of course. But unless you are unwaveringly opposed to > his *kind* of poetics, there are strong poems early to late. > > I tend to agree with something I think Helen Vendler wrote about AG, which > was that he's often at his best not in his prophetic or his political > modes, but when he writes descriptive lyrics. She praised his early poem > "American Change," for instance, as an often overlooked gem, and I agree. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 14, 2011, at 4:54 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > Simply put, no Dylan then no Marley and no Joni Mitchell. As for why Joni > Mitchell does not get the media attention Dylan does these days, she's put > out one album in the last decade or so, and it wasn't very good. Since > 1997's Time Out of Mind, Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has > continued to tour. > > > > > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj > > Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of > the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He > has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. > He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from > Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe > and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of > how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the > English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's > Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very > greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and > seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. > But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. > > Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large > chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It > is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal > seer." > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 14 21:25:13 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 01:25:13 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I was there. You weren't. I studied the records at the Allen Ginsberg Library. You didn't. I knew the people, first hand. You didn't. Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:22:50 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 14 22:02:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:02:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] images of Ian Hamilton Finlay Message-ID: <8CDE0BB48EB5611-C30-81190@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> On bob arnold's longhouse birdhouse... http://longhousepoetryandpublishers.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat May 14 22:01:49 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:01:49 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: References: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1920913277-1305424909-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-17970488-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Ah, the old "hipper than thou" card. Well played. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 01:25:13 To: Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat May 14 23:25:30 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 20:25:30 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan & Ginsberg In-Reply-To: References: <3983139.1305405918500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8893.30143.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE098AB13A28D-1388-56CDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> <12D6C1F1-8A2D-4270-81EB-6BC776F26F2D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I remember hearing Ginsberg read Plutonium Ode in the early 80s, and it was a very exciting, and moving experience. I wonder if anyone could trace a connection between his work and performance poetry -- in my opinion Plutonium Ode was alive in the reading, whatever excesses it is guilty of on the page. Carol TalkingWriting.com On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Or what could be less Howlish than this: > > *First Party At Ken Kesey's With Hell's Angels* > > User Rating: > > 7.6 /10 > (22 votes) > > > - vote -12345678910 > [image: 0] Print friendly version > [image: 0]E-mail this poem to e friend [image: 0]Send this poem as > eCard [image: > 0]Add this poem to MyPoemList > > Cool black night thru redwoods > cars parked outside in shade > behind the gate, stars dim above > the ravine, a fire burning by the side > porch and a few tired souls hunched over > in black leather jackets. In the huge > wooden house, a yellow chandelier > at 3 A.M. the blast of loudspeakers > hi-fi Rolling Stones Ray Charles Beatles > Jumping Joe Jackson and twenty youths > dancing to the vibration thru the floor, > a little weed in the bathroom, girls in scarlet > tights, one muscular smooth skinned man > sweating dancing for hours, beer cans > bent littering the yard, a hanged man > sculpture dangling from a high creek branch, > children sleeping softly in their bedroom bunks. > And 4 police cars parked outside the painted > gate, red lights revolving in the leaves. > > December 1965 > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 5:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> I heartily recommend the Sean Wilentz book mentioned, *Bob Dylan in >> America*. The chapter on Dylan & the Beats is especially good. >> >> I just taught Ginsberg this past semester. He was & continues to be a >> lightning rod for opinions from all quadrants of the political and poetical >> worlds. Not much to add to that debate at this point, but I will say that >> if you haven't re-visited his work in a while, especially the later stuff, I >> do recommend it. It's certainly commonplace to say that he peaked in the >> 1950s, or even that "Howl" is his only great poem, but that strikes me as a >> great oversimplification on two grounds. First, it's hardly fair to judge >> him by "Howl," since very few poets in any era ever write a single poem that >> makes that big a splash. It was a hard act to follow. And lest we forget, >> plenty of poets, some as great as Wordsworth or Frost, never managed to top >> their early successes: that's more than commonplace. >> >> Second, I would argue that there are very fine poems scattered through >> every one of Ginsberg's books. A great deal of mediocre stuff and worse, >> it's true, so it can be a hard slog to find the gems. That's hardly a rare >> thing in great poets, of course. But unless you are unwaveringly opposed to >> his *kind* of poetics, there are strong poems early to late. >> >> I tend to agree with something I think Helen Vendler wrote about AG, which >> was that he's often at his best not in his prophetic or his political >> modes, but when he writes descriptive lyrics. She praised his early poem >> "American Change," for instance, as an often overlooked gem, and I agree. >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On May 14, 2011, at 4:54 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: >> >> Simply put, no Dylan then no Marley and no Joni Mitchell. As for why Joni >> Mitchell does not get the media attention Dylan does these days, she's put >> out one album in the last decade or so, and it wasn't very good. Since >> 1997's Time Out of Mind, Dylan has put out several excellent albums and has >> continued to tour. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan >> >> >> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj >> >> Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of >> the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He >> has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. >> He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from >> Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe >> and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of >> how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the >> English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's >> Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very >> greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and >> seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. >> But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. >> >> Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large >> chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It >> is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal >> seer." >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 14 23:51:32 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 03:51:32 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <1920913277-1305424909-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-17970488-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <11069130.1305386571088.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1920913277-1305424909-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-17970488-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Oh, were it true, I, a hipster. No. It is my particular fate to have seen certain things that need to be remembered, and, then, made certain that they are made part of the record. My work is no more and no less than a literary probe, conducted at great cost. I am absolutely certain that if you were to ask those who control JKSDP, they would tell you that, essentially, I am a failed Marxist hipster, I just didn't get it, and, certainly, wasn't smart enough, like, say, Bernadine Dorhn, or, again, the Direktorr, to -- in the belly of the beast -- to get away with it. Of course, Jack Kerouac is rolling in his grave at what they did, so I'm in good company, along with Borges and Bill Buckley. > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:01:49 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Ah, the old "hipper than thou" card. Well played. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 01:25:13 > To: > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 15 00:07:34 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:07:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <8224365.1305432455093.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 15 00:42:37 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 04:42:37 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8224365.1305432455093.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <8224365.1305432455093.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Oh, sophistry. Treason is what I say it is. "Legal enemy." Rubbish. It is this enemy that declared war on people like me, and Joe The Plumber, Dr. Keyes, Hugh Hewitt. And your fellow travellers, Anne and Allen: No friends of the American Republic. They're glad of it. Happy about it. Sean Penn. Code Pink. Get up in the morning with a fine paycheck. On earth or in hell. Soon, Hugo uber alles. Why should you be argumentative about this? Or disagreeable about my views? Actually, you should be happy! After all, you're winning! Why should my marginal complaint about your side's coming triumph, funded now with serious money by George Soros, cause you any discomfort? Just think, your allies, Anne and Allen, "deconstructed," between the two of them, the American nuclear industry. "Plutonium Ode," and, "Uh, Oh, Plutonium!" really destroyed all those jerks who studied nuclear physics at C.U. Soon, windmills by the millions! Over hill and dale! Let's roll down one of those hills with the Tellytubbies! While into one of them windmills, The American Eagle, and the Bitter Clingers, Mixmastered all the way to the bill. Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:07:34 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about. But I did know Allen and do know Anne. If you're talking about your charge of treason, legally treason would require the betrayal of country to an enemy, and regardless of the fulminations of the right, Nicaragua was not a legal enemy. But hey, if it had required treason--such an ugly word--to oppose the contra war I suppose I would have been a traitor. It's ancient history now. Even Reagan's betrayal of the core of democracy, the separation of powers, when he funded the contras without congressional authorization. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 9:25 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan I was there. You weren't. I studied the records at the Allen Ginsberg Library. You didn't. I knew the people, first hand. You didn't. Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:22:50 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 15 02:49:36 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:49:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun May 15 07:05:45 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:05:45 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Congratulations. You are the first civilian I have seen anxious to ally himself with Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber's Helper. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:49:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 15 08:12:39 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:12:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets at the White House Message-ID: http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/05/11/president-obama-poets-white-house -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 15 08:19:09 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:19:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Notice how when this literary figure can't argue, or win an argument, He indulges in an Alinskian ad hominem attack Perfected in the White House by Barack - - Here's a whirling purpose for the rhyme, "Plunges." .> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:05:45 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Congratulations. You are the first civilian I have seen anxious to ally himself with Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber's Helper. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: junction at earthlink.net > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:49:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > To: NewPoetry List > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 15 08:29:53 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:29:53 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Waldman's Star System Observed By Robert Bly Gnats whirling over a distant swamp Bow down to the Direktorette Before she, eyes in a whirl, enters the tent Robert Duncan couldn't do that. > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:05:45 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > Congratulations. You are the first civilian I have seen anxious to ally himself with Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber's Helper. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: junction at earthlink.net > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:49:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > To: NewPoetry List > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 15 08:49:04 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:49:04 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Badges? Badges? We Don't Need No Stinkin' Badges for Rep. Paul Ryan Yeah, boundaries, inconveniences, at best, You, the La Raza illegal aliens, Dorhn, eyeless in Gaza, Like language, customs, meteorology, Do away with Windows on The World while you're at it. Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 02:49:36 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan It's too late for me to get angry, and what's the point? You're not likely to make any converts, and neither am I. I try real hard to think of boundaries as inconveniences at best. You might give it a try too. Nighty-night. Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 15, 2011 12:42 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Oh, sophistry. Treason is what I say it is. "Legal enemy." Rubbish. It is this enemy that declared war on people like me, and Joe The Plumber, Dr. Keyes, Hugh Hewitt. And your fellow travellers, Anne and Allen: No friends of the American Republic. They're glad of it. Happy about it. Sean Penn. Code Pink. Get up in the morning with a fine paycheck. On earth or in hell. Soon, Hugo uber alles. Why should you be argumentative about this? Or disagreeable about my views? Actually, you should be happy! After all, you're winning! Why should my marginal complaint about your side's coming triumph, funded now with serious money by George Soros, cause you any discomfort? Just think, your allies, Anne and Allen, "deconstructed," between the two of them, the American nuclear industry. "Plutonium Ode," and, "Uh, Oh, Plutonium!" really destroyed all those jerks who studied nuclear physics at C.U. Soon, windmills by the millions! Over hill and dale! Let's roll down one of those hills with the Tellytubbies! While into one of them windmills, The American Eagle, and the Bitter Clingers, Mixmastered all the way to the bill. Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:07:34 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about. But I did know Allen and do know Anne. If you're talking about your charge of treason, legally treason would require the betrayal of country to an enemy, and regardless of the fulminations of the right, Nicaragua was not a legal enemy. But hey, if it had required treason--such an ugly word--to oppose the contra war I suppose I would have been a traitor. It's ancient history now. Even Reagan's betrayal of the core of democracy, the separation of powers, when he funded the contras without congressional authorization. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 9:25 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan I was there. You weren't. I studied the records at the Allen Ginsberg Library. You didn't. I knew the people, first hand. You didn't. Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:22:50 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Whatever are you talking about? This borders on the incoherent. A couple of things I understand well-enough to comment about: Dylan was a reader of the poetry of the New American Poets (so-called after the Don Allen anthology), including Ginsberg. Ann Waldman isn't/wasn't a protege of Allen Ginsberg's, though they worked together in the founding of Naropa and were good friends, and working in the limited way they did with the Sandinista government wasn't treason, as we were never at war with Nicaragua--even our backdoor proxy war against the Nicaraguan govt was explicitly forbidden by congress. A bit more on Daniel Ortega, a thoroughly odious character, though that wasn't immediately apparent even to those in his government. For several years after the overthrow of the Somoza govt he was the most influential member of the junta that ruled until elections were called. He was elected president, apparently fairly, then lost several elections before being elected again. It's a stretch to call him a dictator, though I can think of some other choice words for him. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: May 14, 2011 10:34 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Of this I am certain: It was not a society of mutual admiration between Bob Dylan and Ginsberg. The latter was obsessed with the former. And the former was never not a loyal American. This became very obvious in the Nashville album vs. the latter's clear treason, with his protege, Waldman, with Sandinistan dictator, Daniel Ortega, and their, "Ministry of Writing." The latter was seen continuously to be playing casette tapes of Bob Dylan works, but he could never quite bottle what Bob Dylan did out there. Wherever, whomsoever, or whence Bob Dylan was animated, he, like, say, another sui generis musician, Helen Grimaud, captures some quintessence from another region and brings it here among us. If there was any region whence Ginsberg was animated, willingingly, on purpose, it was an infernal one. R.D. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 20:09:52 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703859304576307222343498188.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Has any literary figure of the past 50 years (in any genre) taken hold of the culture as fully, while being so honored by the intellectual classes? He has appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek and performed for the pope. He has a Pulitzer Prize (and Nobel buzz), an honorary doctorate from Princeton, a National Medal of the Arts, a passel of Grammys, a Golden Globe and an Oscar. In last year's "Bob Dylan in America," Mr. Wilentz writes of how Mr. Dylan traded influences with the poet Allen Ginsberg, while for the English literary critic Christopher Ricks (who published his book "Dylan's Visions of Sin" in 2004) the man can stand "comparison with the very greatest poets." The songwriter himself has equivocated on the point and seems uninterested in the question. "Poets drown in lakes," he once gibed. But the aura of poet and prophet has clung. Daniel Mark Epstein and David Yaffe thus add their voices to a large chorus. Of the two, Mr. Epstein's book achieves the more prophetic pitch. It is true that Mr. Yaffe calls Mr. Dylan, at one point, a "gnomic adenoidal seer." _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 15 10:30:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:30:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> On 5/15/2011 6:05 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Congratulations. You are the first civilian I have seen anxious to ally himself with Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber's Helper. I don't know about Joe, Al, since I try my best to stay away from politics, but I have to say that my brand of anarchy is a lot closer to Richard's political belief system than, probably, to that of any other New-Poetry participant. Which is rather comic, considering that I'm the literary radical here. But count me out of any Dylan/Ginsberg debate. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 15 10:32:38 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:32:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] W and the Under-W In-Reply-To: <8CDE0BB48EB5611-C30-81190@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE0BB48EB5611-C30-81190@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DCFE406.2030709@nut-n-but.net> Now at my blog, http://poeticks.com, a piece that I hope will be my last concerning WIlshberia. --Bob From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 15 09:48:19 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:48:19 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob Grumman has more in common with Professor Frye than his critics might be willing to admit. \> Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:30:27 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan > > On 5/15/2011 6:05 AM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > Congratulations. You are the first civilian I have seen anxious to ally himself with Joe the (unlicensed) Plumber's Helper. > I don't know about Joe, Al, since I try my best to stay away from > politics, but I have to say that my brand of anarchy is a lot closer to > Richard's political belief system than, probably, to that of any other > New-Poetry participant. Which is rather comic, considering that I'm the > literary radical here. > > But count me out of any Dylan/Ginsberg debate. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sun May 15 10:25:24 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:25:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Oh, how 'bout a poem? Message-ID: <2CC37CAC-97A7-4085-A283-ADBE4F6903BB@ripon.edu> Two Futilists Even if the mountain I climbed Proved to be merely a duncecap It was only on gaining its peak That that knowledge reached me. * Is there a single inch-- one square millimeter on the face of our planet which some animal human or otherwise has not shit on? Is there anywhere even a pore's-worth of ground-- earth that has never (not once in its eons) been covered by what golgotha of dung? If such a place exists, I want to go there and stand there at that site in that spot, truly and purely for an instant. --Bill Knott =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 15 10:28:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:28:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDE1236E14AD03-1060-59F1D@webmail-m103.sysops.aol.com> This one corrected... one does not begin a poem, one abandons one's life --Mark Leidner -- Echo of Valery/Auden in that one: A poem is never finished, just abandoned. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 6:39 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. The Angel in The Dream of Our Hangover by Mark Leidner Sator Press, 2011 http://www.satorpress.com/ - Here are few utterances from this book specifically related to poetry.., poetry is what follows you when you run from it poets are the unacknowledged law school students of the world if you want to write poetry, write prophecy; prophecy fails into poetry the poem is a form so fully itself, it throws into relief the true, unrealized form of the reader?s life poetic language is a gem without edges poetry like the Midas of meaning; everything you reach for is dissolved in the spectacle of the gesture _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 15 10:30:41 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:30:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan Message-ID: <21561273.1305469842073.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 15 10:33:33 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 10:33:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Oh, how 'bout a poem? Message-ID: <19017471.1305470014199.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:06:10 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:06:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] is this a villanelle? Message-ID: I keep on getting confused with a/b/R1 and R2, maybe not my day to write a Villanelle... *DARK WAS THE NIGHT* *COLD WAS THE GROUND* *Blind Willie Johnson* I, the daughter, have to die Having you, Father, stopped breathing I do not want to cry & keep going back to bide To when you are still ailing I, the daughter, have to die My Father?s swing is on the blues? side Charlie Patton, Willie Johnson Blind I do not want to cry Best singer of liturgical hymn, thy Are fed by white Christ faith in I, the daughter, who fatherless must die Of mounts and deer the soulful sky Miles walked, worker, giver, oxen Without you, I can?t but cry Although far, severed, unclear, high With nothing to defy, none to reply I, the daughter, must die I do not want to cry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:30:41 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:30:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] is this a villanelle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think the form needs to be terribly strict, but if you want the rhyme scheme of "Do Not Go Gentle" you would change line 17 to the ing/ing/blind/in/oxen rhyme. From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 15 11:38:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 11:38:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Oh, how 'bout a poem? Message-ID: <8CDE12D5609D37E-1060-5B5E7@webmail-m103.sysops.aol.com> Knott, it seems to me, in that American pessimist strain that includes William Bronk and... Poem What?s the balm for a dying life, dope, drink, or Christ, is there one? I puke and choke with it and find no peace of mind in flesh, and no hope. It flows away in mucous juice. Nothing I can do can make it stay, so I give out and water the garden: it is all shit for the flowers anyhow. ?Alan Dugan (Poems 3, 1967) / Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:08:48 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:08:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] is this a villanelle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you David, 17 was a number that came up ever so often with my father_ I am pasting the revised version: *DARK WAS THE NIGHT* *COLD WAS THE GROUND* *Blind Willie Johnson* I, the daughter, have to die Having you, Father, stopped breathing I do not want to cry & keep going back to bide To when you are still ailing I, the daughter, have to die My Father?s swing is on the blues? side Charlie Patton, Willie Johnson Blind I do not want to cry Best singer of liturgical hymn, thy Are fed by white Christly faith in I, the daughter, who fatherless must die Of mounts and deer the soulful sky Miles walked, worker, giver, oxen Without you, I can?t but cry Although far, severed, unclear, high No one to defy, world out of my skin I, the daughter, must die I do not want to cry On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > I don't think the form needs to be terribly strict, but if you want > the rhyme scheme of "Do Not Go Gentle" you would change line 17 to the > ing/ing/blind/in/oxen rhyme. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:16:47 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 19:16:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Excellent On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:39 AM, wrote: > The Angel in The Dream of Our Hangover > by Mark Leidner > Sator Press, 2011 > http://www.satorpress.com/ > - > Here are few utterances from this book specifically related to poetry.., > > > poetry is what follows you when you run from it > > > poets are the unacknowledged law school students of the world > > > if you want to write poetry, write prophecy; prophecy fails into poetry > > > the poem is a form so fully itself, it throws into relief the true, > unrealized form of the reader?s life > > > one does not begin a poem, one abandon?s one life > > > poetic language is a gem without edges > > > poetry like the Midas of meaning; everything you reach for is dissolved in > the spectacle of the gesture > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 15 14:28:42 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net> On 5/15/2011 8:48 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Bob Grumman has more in common with Professor Frye than his > critics might be willing to admit. Thanks, Richard. I'd love to be able to agree! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 15 13:47:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:47:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> <4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDE13F4125C6EB-EE4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> As in "Northrop Grumman" the defense (qua 'offensive') contractor. Next in line for funding: a new drone that will hover over the suburbs of Wilshberia peering into homes, trying to spot -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 2:28 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan On 5/15/2011 8:48 AM, R Dillon wrote: Bob Grumman has more in common with Professor Frye than his critics might be willing to admit. Thanks, Richard. I'd love to be able to agree! --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun May 15 13:59:37 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:59:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Now, that one I can accept. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: Tad Richards > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? > > This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. > > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet >> >> -- >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun May 15 14:00:52 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:00:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Karen Alkalay-Gut gave a reading at my school a number of years ago, and she did wear black. She was great, and my students loved the reading, but they were also highly impressed by how much she looked like a poet. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Now, that one I can accept. > > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > >> Tad, the author forgot an important admonition: Wear black. >> Finnegan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tad Richards >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 1:56 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? >> >> This is worse than I could possibly have imagined. >> >> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Poet >>> >>> -- >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 15 14:04:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:04:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net> <4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net> <8CDE13F4125C6EB-EE4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> ...trying to spot and smote those whose reading habits don't hew to the visual poetic. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 1:47 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan As in "Northrop Grumman" the defense (qua 'offensive') contractor. Next in line for funding: a new drone that will hover over the suburbs of Wilshberia peering into homes, trying to spot -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 2:28 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan On 5/15/2011 8:48 AM, R Dillon wrote: Bob Grumman has more in common with Professor Frye than his critics might be willing to admit. Thanks, Richard. I'd love to be able to agree! --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sun May 15 16:01:04 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Review In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE07DDEFA855F-202C-2A6D0@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDE151F4AC3C0B-175C-72089@webmail-m133.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, It's not online, but if you subscribe or have an opportunity to see Issue #72, there's a review of my poetry book Injuring Eternity in the latest Hiram Poetry Review! http://hirampoetryreview.wordpress.com/ (here's their web page) Millicent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 15 17:40:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:40:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net><4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net><8CDE13F4125C6EB-E E4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD04844.4040803@nut-n-but.net> On 5/15/2011 1:04 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > ...trying to spot and smote those whose reading habits don't hew to > the visual poetic. . Now, now, Finnegan, you know those drones are on the side of all the oppressed poets trying to get into Wilshberia--and there are many more of them than just the visual poets. --Northrup -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun May 15 16:39:28 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <4DD04844.4040803@nut-n-but.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net><4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net><8CDE13F4125C6EB-E E4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> <4DD04844.4040803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <458048.16273.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah, gee, visual poetry's old hat nowadays.?So am I, an old hat, I mean: I like to think of myself as a?thirty-one-year-old, extremely?greasy tam o'shanter. Amicalement, The Dissertator (13 days and counting to?completion) ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 11:40:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan On 5/15/2011 1:04 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: ...trying to spot and smote those whose reading habits don't hew to the visual poetic. >. Now, now, Finnegan, you know those drones are on the side of all the oppressed poets trying to get into Wilshberia--and there are many more of them than just the visual poets. --Northrup -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 15 17:54:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:54:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <458048.16273.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net><4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net><8CDE13F4125C6EB-E E4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail- d101.sysops.aol.com><4DD04844.4040803@nut-n-but.net> <458048.16273.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD04BAD.4020406@nut-n-but.net> On 5/15/2011 3:39 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Yeah, gee, visual poetry's old hat nowadays. So am I, an old hat, I > mean: I like to think of myself as a thirty-one-year-old, > extremely greasy tam o'shanter. > Amicalement, > The Dissertator (13 days and counting to completion) . Oops. That will make yuh one o' them thar /academics/, won't it? fearfully, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun May 15 18:34:04 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan In-Reply-To: <4DD04BAD.4020406@nut-n-but.net> References: <24011048.1305442176970.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <1985397119-1305457547-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1733583694-@b11.c31.bise6.blackberry>, <4DCFE383.3090504@nut-n-but.net><4DD01B5A.1070307@nut-n-but.net><8CDE13F4125C6EB-E E4-633F2@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE1417F004331-EE4-63D2E@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com><8CDE141A54F8461-EE4-63D95@webmail- d101.sysops.aol.com><4DD04844.4040803@nut-n-but.net> <458048.16273.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD04BAD.4020406@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <563526.57084.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Old hat, like I said. Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 11:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] literary Dylan On 5/15/2011 3:39 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Yeah, gee, visual poetry's old hat nowadays.?So am I, an old hat, I mean: I like to think of myself as a?thirty-one-year-old, extremely?greasy tam o'shanter. >Amicalement, >The Dissertator (13 days and counting to?completion) >. Oops.? That will make yuh one o' them thar academics, won't it? fearfully, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Sun May 15 19:44:41 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:44:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Free ebook giveaway: Still Living on my Feet Message-ID: <20110515164441.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.43e4f1c934.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 16 10:51:34 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:51:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aaron Belz and his tweeting Message-ID: I am developing a theory of whom to follow on Twitter (though following others is unnecessary). There are, in fact, people whose incidental thoughts and observations I like to peruse. Alan Jacobs, a fellow writer for Books & Culture, is one of them. David Dark, whose work I've always admired, is another. I love the poetic tweets of writers like Amy McDaniel (of HTMLGIANT) and the comic tweets of TV writers like Julius Sharpe ("Family Guy"). My friend Bill Chott, actor and improvisor, is good to keep tabs on. http://www.booksandculture.com/articles/webexclusives/2011/april/monthtweeting.html?paging=off -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon May 16 13:22:23 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 13:22:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideas for subverting the current poetry publishing system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How can poets subvert the current poetry publishing system? Interview at Coachella Review - what's with this nanopress poetry publishing model? http://bit.ly/kSBKp6. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Forever Will End on Thursday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon May 16 13:53:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <532077.29173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "one abandon's one life" one life ... beautifully said. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 1:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Excellent On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:39 AM, wrote: The Angel in The Dream of Our Hangover >by Mark Leidner >Sator Press, 2011 >http://www.satorpress.com/ >- >Here are few utterances from this book specifically related to poetry.., > > >poetry is what follows you when you run from it > > >poets are the unacknowledged law school students of the world > > >if you want to write poetry, write prophecy; prophecy fails into poetry > > >the poem is a form so fully itself, it throws into relief the true, unrealized >form of the reader?s life > > >one does not begin a poem, one abandon?s one life > > >poetic language is a gem without edges > > >poetry like the Midas of meaning; everything you reach for is dissolved in the >spectacle of the gesture > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon May 16 14:30:40 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:30:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <532077.29173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <532077.29173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I like the "abandons one life" formulation better than the original "abandons one's life" c On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:53 AM, stephen russell wrote: > "one abandon's one life" > > one life ... beautifully said. > > ________________________________ > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 1:16:47 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Excellent > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:39 AM, wrote: >> >> The Angel in The Dream of Our Hangover >> by Mark Leidner >> Sator Press, 2011 >> http://www.satorpress.com/ >> - >> Here are few utterances from this book specifically related to poetry.., >> >> poetry is what follows you when you run from it >> >> poets are the unacknowledged law school students of the world >> >> if you want to write poetry, write prophecy; prophecy fails into poetry >> >> the poem is a form so fully itself, it throws into relief the true, >> unrealized form of the reader?s life >> >> one does not begin a poem, one abandon?s one life >> >> poetic language is a gem without edges >> >> poetry like the Midas of meaning; everything you reach for is dissolved in >> the spectacle of the gesture >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 16 15:56:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:56:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><532077.2 9173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> On 5/16/2011 1:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I like the "abandons one life" formulation better than the original > "abandons one's life" > > c They both seem nonsensical gush to me. How can you abandon /any/ life and be a poet? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon May 16 15:02:10 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:02:10 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The only way I can hope to write a poem is by abandoning my work life and self, for one. Which I try to do as often as I can. It seems eminently reasonable to me. I could just as easily ask how you could be a poet *without* abandoning the irrelevant lives we lead. c On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/16/2011 1:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > I like the "abandons one life" formulation better than the original > "abandons one's life" > > c > > They both seem nonsensical gush to me.? How can you abandon any life and be > a poet? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 16 15:34:37 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><532077.2 9173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <153538.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Ecrire, c'est peut-?tre abdiquer." (To write is perhaps to abdicate.") -- Blaise Cendrars, Bourlinguer. "Les fen?tres de ma po?sie?sont grand'ouvertes sur les Boulevards et dans ses vitrines Brillent Les pierreries de la lumi?re"?(The windows of my poetry are thrown wide open upon the Boulevards and in their shop windows shine the gems of the light) -- Blaise Cendrars, "Contrastes" (Contrasts) Amicalement, Alex (12 days and counting to dissertationhood) ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 9:56:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. On 5/16/2011 1:30 PM, Chris Lott wrote: I like the "abandons one life" formulation better than the original "abandons one's life" c They both seem nonsensical gush to me.? How can you abandon any life and be a poet? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 16 16:57:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:57:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> On 5/16/2011 2:02 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > The only way I can hope to write a poem is by abandoning my work life > and self, for one. Which I try to do as often as I can. > > It seems eminently reasonable to me. I could just as easily ask how > you could be a poet *without* abandoning the irrelevant lives we lead. > > c . I'm too literal-minded, I guess. Hence, I can't see how you can literally abandon your one life to begin a poem. Even if you want to bubble into the idea of abandonment of "mere" life for the great para-life of poetry, it seems silly to me. What can you put into a poem except consituents of an unabandoned life? I'd prefer, "You don't begin a poem, you begin life" but that's not at all interesting. Nonsense is always more interesting than the utterly sane. As for abandoning one of your lives to start a poem, what is that? Obviously you abandon one part at least of your life when you do /anything./ The Anti-Philogusher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 16 16:59:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:59:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <153538.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><532077.2 9173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> <153538.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> The toilet of my philosophy is ever aflush. --The Anti-Philogusher From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:13:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:13:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_Povestiri_din_Var=C8=99ovia=2E_WARS?= =?utf-8?q?ZAWSKIE_OPOWIE=C5=9ACI=2E_Warsaw_Tales=3A_Contemporary_L?= =?utf-8?q?iterature_Press=2C_Bucharest_2011?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. [image: Contemporary Literature Press] Press Release Bucharest, 18 May 2011 Contemporary Literature Press, under The *University of Bucharest*, in permanent conjunction with *The British Council*, and *The Romanian Cultural Institute*, Announces the publication of the *trilingual volume* *Povestiri din Var?ovia WARSZAWSKIE OPOWIE?CI Warsaw Tales* edited by *Lidia Vianu*, translated by MA Programme Participants to Translation of Contemporary Texts ? Bucharest University. (ISBN 978-606-92387-8-3). *Contemporary Literature Press* publishes its first volume in three languages. The book was initially written in Polish and (parts of it) in English. It is a collection of snapshots meant to make After-Iron-Curtain Warsaw known to the world. The original publisher is New Europe Writers . They call themselves, very aptly, ?your guide to life behind the curtain?. Communism was a curtain ? and a very thick one, at that. Post-Communism is another, unfortunately. All that this book, published in Romanian, Polish, and English by *Contemporary Literature Press*, means to convey is that Literary Translators can draw the curtains of Europe for literature lovers all over the world. There is, there has always been life ? as a story ? in literature, no matter what time and tide brought to one country or another. Not many authors are willing to leave their story for that of another geographical space. Literary translation is doing that for them. The Graduate Students of the MA Programme for the Translation of Contemporary Texts, at Bucharest University, are messengers from that genetic inheritance of writers ? Polish, this time ? which is called one?s native land... *Povestiri din Var?ovia ? WARSZAWSKIE OPOWIE?CI ? Warsaw Tales* is available for consultation and downloading as from 18 May 2011, at the following internet address: http://editura.mttlc.ro/warsaw-tales.html You are kindly invited to visit the * Contemporary Literature Press* Website at http://editura.mttlc.ro/. For comments or suggestions, please contact the publisher lidiavianu at yahoo.com. Contemporary Literature Press Translation Caf? eZine of Modern Texts in Translation Contact Us Comunicat de Pres? Bucure?ti, 18 mai 2011 Editura pentru Literatur? Contemporan?, sub auspiciile *Universit??ii din Bucure?ti*, ?n colaborare cu *Consiliul Britanic* ?i *Institutul Cultural Rom?n*, Anun?? publicarea volumului trilingv *Povestiri din Var?ovia WARSZAWSKIE OPOWIE?CI Warsaw Tales* editat de *Lidia Vianu*, tradus de Masteranzii ?n Traducerea Textului Contemporan de la Universitatea din Bucure?ti. (ISBN 978-606-92387-8-3). Editura pentru Literatur? Contemporan? public?, pentru prima dat? de c?nd s-a ?nfiin?at, un volum trilingv. El a fost ini?ial scris ?n polon?, cu excep?ia unui num?r de texte scrise direct ?n limba englez?. Este vorba de poeme ?i proze scurte, menite s? ofere o imagine a Var?oviei, a?a cum arat? ea dup? c?derea Cortinei de Fier. Editorul original este New Europe Writers . El se autodefine?te ca ?privirea din spatele perdelei?. Comunismul a fost o perdea care a ascuns multe. Post-Comunismul este ?i el un alt fel perdea, de ascunz?toare. Volumul acesta, publicat de *Editura pentru Literatur? Contemporan?* ?n limbile rom?n?, polon? ?i englez?, tocmai acest scop are, s? trag? deoparte perdelele Europei pentru iubitorii de literatur? din lumea ?ntreag?. Literatura a fost din toate timpurile poveste, adic? via??. ?n unele ??ri, a fost ?bietul om sub vremi?, cum bine zicea cronicarul rom?n ?n veacul al XVII-lea. Si cu toate acestea, nu mul?i scriitori au avut dorin?a ori t?ria s? dezerteze din povestea lor pentru a intra ?n aceea a unui alt spa?iu geografic de pe glob. Acest lucru ?l face de o bun? bucat? de vreme ?ncoace pentru ei Traducerea Literar?. Masteranzii ?n Traducerea Textului Contemporan de la Universitatea din Bucure?ti sunt mesagerii acelei componente genetice din fiin?a scriitorilor ? polonezi, de data aceasta ? care se cheam?, cu un cuv?nt compromis de comunism, dar imposibil de ?nlocuit, patrie... *Povestiri din Var?ovia ? WARSZAWSKIE OPOWIE?CI ? Warsaw Tales* poate fi consultat ?i desc?rcat ?ncep?nd cu data de 18 mai 2011 la adresa de internet: http://editura.mttlc.ro/warsaw-tales.html *Editura pentru Literatur? Contemporan?* v? invit? s? accesa?i Website-ul www.editura.mttlc.ro . Editura public? lucr?ri at?t ?n limba englez? c?t ?i ?n limba rom?n?. Pentru sugestii sau comentarii, v? rug?m adresa?i-v? Editurii, lidiavianu at yahoo.com. Editura pentru literatur? contemporan? Translation Caf? Revista Masteratului pentru Traducerea Textului Literar Contemporan. Contact Us Contact us at lidiavianu at yahoo.com Copyright ?2011 MTTLC All rights reserved. NOTE: You have received this message because you or a friend of yours added your email address to our mailing list. If you do not wish to receive any further communications, please let us know at the email address above. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon May 16 16:10:08 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:10:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > . > I'm too literal-minded, I guess. Guess so. You also understand the non-literal term (the narrow, literal interpretation of the word "life" seems the most uninteresting and boring to me) very differently than I do. Both of these unfortunate facts are illustrated by a statement like: "Obviously you abandon one part at least of your life when you do anything" I'm not surprised, though I continue to wonder why you feel a duty to piss on other peoples' cheerios. The aphorism meant something to me, and apparently others, why does that threaten you? Or if that's not it, why do you so consistently try to make the never-successful argument that someone else must be wrong in what they like or what moves them? You aren't an anti-philogusher, you are a puppy kicker. c From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:21:20 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:21:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> <153538.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: http://www.clairebretecher.com/NET/fichiers/classic.html can't but be Claire Bretecher and les frustres ! On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > The toilet of my philosophy is ever aflush. > > --The Anti-Philogusher > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon May 16 16:30:24 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 13:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm offended. Urine is delicious on cheerios. Amicalement, Superprocrastinator ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 10:10:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > . > I'm too literal-minded, I guess. Guess so. You also understand the non-literal term (the narrow, literal interpretation of the word "life" seems the most uninteresting and boring to me) very differently than I do. Both of these unfortunate facts are illustrated by a statement like: "Obviously you abandon one part at least of your life when you do anything" I'm not surprised, though I continue to wonder why you feel a duty to piss on other peoples' cheerios. The aphorism meant something to me, and apparently others, why does that threaten you? Or if that's not it, why do you so consistently try to make the never-successful argument that someone else must be wrong in what they like or what moves them? You aren't an anti-philogusher, you are a puppy kicker. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 16 17:52:26 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:52:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178 .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> On 5/16/2011 3:30 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I'm offended. Urine is /delicious/ on cheerios. . What isn't delicious on Cheerios? But "urine" is on that list of beautiful words that Wiki How-To site has. So it "toilet." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon May 16 17:55:44 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178 .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & people got so offended by the piss Christ painting. The painting simply depicted some lovely jaded colors. & Christ, after all, probably did sometimes piss. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 5:52:26 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. On 5/16/2011 3:30 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: I'm offended. Urine is delicious on cheerios. > . What isn't delicious on Cheerios? But "urine" is on that list of beautiful words that Wiki How-To site has. So it "toilet." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 16 21:50:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:50:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178 .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net><748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD1D478.5070807@nut-n-but.net> Correction of a kind of mistake I seem to be making /all/ the #!!@$! time. > On 5/16/2011 3:30 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: >> I'm offended. Urine is /delicious/ on cheerios. > . > What isn't delicious on Cheerios? But "urine" is on that list of > beautiful words that Wiki How-To site has. So IS "toilet." > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 17 02:02:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:02:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton and Anatol Message-ID: http://martonandanatol.wordpress.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue May 17 10:19:22 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:19:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Interview at BOMBlog Message-ID: <1042430.1305641962536.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> http://bombsite.com/issues/1000/articles/5041. From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue May 17 10:39:58 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:39:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford Message-ID: http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 17 10:51:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:51:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> Uh, oh. I smell a power grab. . . . First West Hartford, next it'll be Parkville & Newington Junction. Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and Unionville will fall. . . . Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. Is there nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? Congratulations, Jim! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Tue May 17 11:05:49 2011 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:05:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, I am so happy for you! Congrats! I wish I lived closer-- your discussion group sounds awesome! Suzanne On May 17, 2011 10:40 AM, "David Weinstock" wrote: > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue May 17 11:39:15 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:39:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford Message-ID: <18180709.1305646755394.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Way to go Jim! -----Original Message----- >From: David Weinstock >Sent: May 17, 2011 10:39 AM >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford > >http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 17 11:53:14 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:53:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. Congratulations, Mr. Finnegan. - Jim On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: > Uh, oh. I smell a power grab. . . . First West Hartford, next it'll be > Parkville & Newington Junction. Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and > Unionville will fall. . . . Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. Is there > nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? > > Congratulations, Jim! > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > > > > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue May 17 12:23:31 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:23:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Message-ID: A sure sign that you've been reading too much French poetry. Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 13:30:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Dickow Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. I'm offended. Urine is delicious on cheerios. Amicalement, Superprocrastinator ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 17 13:16:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 19:16:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I wish to congratulate James Finnegan officially. Simply deserved. With my best, Anny On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:53 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. Congratulations, Mr. > Finnegan. > > - Jim > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> Uh, oh. I smell a power grab. . . . First West Hartford, next it'll be >> Parkville & Newington Junction. Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and >> Unionville will fall. . . . Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. Is there >> nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? >> >> Congratulations, Jim! >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: >> >> > >> http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue May 17 22:43:56 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 19:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <941902.42959.qm@web120505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jim, This is great news.? I hope to catch you reading somewhere soon.? I am concerned, though, about the phrase, "write original poems for special occasions."? Isn't there a new Dollar Tree store opening up in town?? Get scribbling! Congratulations, John J? >________________________________ >From: David Weinstock >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:39 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford > >http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Wed May 18 02:15:27 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 06:15:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I disagree with certain Conservative thinkers who are offended by the painting, "Piss Christ." I attended the original gallery showing (Guggenheim Museum Gallery, Soho) and knew, immediately, that Serano was a profoundly religious painter. The Piss Christ is a work that acknowledges the core horror of the Crucifixion and Christ's mission, which was to descend into this horrible world and redeem humans of it. People forget, but, Andres Serrano didn't forget, that the crucifix, itself, was an instrument of torture. Humanitas can be ugly, cruel, and wickedly inventive in its torturous endeavors. I thought it quite brilliant of Serano to see that the same people who are offended by the Savior's descent into a realm of urine are the same people who see the murdered Savior nailed to a cross and do not demand that this revulsive engine of death and ultimate humiliation be removed from our world because it is offensive to the memory of Jesus, and like the aquarium of urine, it insults him - - as if he wasn't already insulted maximally. Serano is a profound and extremely devout Christian. Thus, until this writing, Piss Christ has been, perhaps, the most misunderstood, misread, artwork in human history. But, then, so was Christ, himself. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed May 18 04:27:43 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:27:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Richard, I am seriously interested in what you are writing here: because it is offensive to the memory of Jesus Could you explain better? If a man is shot, is it offensive to his memory to remember that he was killed by a gun? Or isn't it the other way round, I remember and mourn this man right because he could have lived longer, but his life was suddenly interrupted by the horrifying use of a weapon. Thank you, Anny On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:15 AM, R Dillon wrote: > I disagree with certain Conservative thinkers who are offended by the > painting, "Piss Christ." I attended the original gallery showing > (Guggenheim Museum Gallery, Soho) and knew, immediately, that Serano was a > profoundly religious painter. The Piss Christ is a work that acknowledges > the core horror of the Crucifixion and Christ's mission, > which was to descend into this horrible world and redeem humans of it. > People forget, but, Andres Serrano didn't forget, that the crucifix, itself, > was an instrument of torture. Humanitas can be ugly, cruel, and wickedly > inventive in its torturous endeavors. I thought it quite brilliant of > Serano to see that the same people who are offended by the Savior's descent > into a realm of urine are the same people who see the murdered Savior nailed > to a cross and do not demand that this revulsive engine of death and > ultimate humiliation be removed from our world because it is offensive > to the memory of Jesus, and like the aquarium of urine, it insults him - - > as if he wasn't already insulted maximally. Serano is a profound and > extremely devout Christian. Thus, until this writing, Piss Christ has > been, perhaps, the most misunderstood, misread, artwork in human history. > But, then, so was Christ, himself. > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 18 14:16:50 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:16:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Official Report, Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDE39EE43DEED8-2194-A90EE@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> On May 11, 2011, by proclamation, I appointed to the position of ?Poet Laureate of the Town of West Hartford? (CT). This being my official report of my first week on the job? I asked the Town Council to annex the City of Hartford (which has no poet laureate) so that my realm might be expanded. [Declined] I asked that a tiara of emeralds be crafted in the model of a laurel wreath, or, if funds were not available for such jewelry, that fresh laurels could be delivered to my house each week, so that my headdress will always be fresh & green as I go about town reciting poetry to the populace. [Declined] I asked that a small area in the town library be designated as ?Poet?s Corner,? and that this area should be appointed with a lounge chair of Danish design, reserved for my person, and in which I will, from time to time, ensconce myself, so that I may read or write as the spirit moves me, and should I be in need of refreshment, a member of the library staff would be given leave to bring me a Starbucks? latte. [Declined] Undeterred by these setbacks, I am determined to dispatch my duties with dignity and panache. Jim Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 11:53 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. Congratulations, Mr. Finnegan. - Jim On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: Uh, oh. I smell a power grab. . . . First West Hartford, next it'll be Parkville & Newington Junction. Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and Unionville will fall. . . . Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. Is there nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? Congratulations, Jim! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed May 18 14:27:19 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:27:19 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Official Report, Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: <8CDE39EE43DEED8-2194-A90EE@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu><8CDE39EE43DEED8-2194-A90EE@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1825571628-1305743240-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-85066447-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Damn budget cutbacks. No respect for public service. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:16:50 To: Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] Official Report, Poet Laureate of West Hartford _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed May 18 16:33:21 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:33:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was just writing about Piss Christ! First of all, it is not in isolation, it is part of a series. Also, I think that the valorization of the instruments of torture -- or of the torture itself -- is an integral part of martyrology, especially in religious traditions that allow images, and where the founding prophet was martyred -- i.e., I'm not sure about Islamist martyrdom as opposed to Christian or Buddhist... All best, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed May 18 18:15:42 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 00:15:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Official Report, Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: <1825571628-1305743240-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-85066447-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> <8CDE39EE43DEED8-2194-A90EE@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <1825571628-1305743240-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-85066447-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: I'd suggest, re.: tiara, that you should add a couple of rubies and some other stones, plus specify the main supporting material, which should undoubtedly be gold, in the sense that they might not know what you want exactly, probably supply them with a drawing, you know how bureaucrats are, if you do not have everything ready they simply disregard requests, although, as in this case, undersigned by a Laureate. On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:27 PM, wrote: > Damn budget cutbacks. No respect for public service. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:16:50 > To: > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Official Report, Poet Laureate of West Hartford > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 19 00:30:48 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 00:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= Message-ID: <28408757.1305779449273.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu May 19 02:31:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:31:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: I, Lalla: The Poems of Lal Ded (trans. Ranjit Hoskote) - JUST PUBLISHED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *I, Lalla The Poems of Lal D?d * *Translated from the Kashmiri by Ranjit Hoskote** ** I trapped my breath in the bellows of my throat: a lamp blazed up inside, showed me who I really was. I crossed the darkness holding fast to that lamp, scattering its light-seeds around me as I went. * The poems of the fourteenth-century Kashmiri mystic Lal D?d, popularly known as Lalla, strike us like brief and blinding bursts of light. Epiphanic and provocative, they shuttle between the vulnerability of doubt and the assurance of an insight gained through resilience and reflection. These poems are as sensuously evocative as they are charged with an ecstatic devotion: Lalla does not surrender meekly to enlightenment but embraces it with wild passion. The poet Ranjit Hoskote?s new English translation restores the jagged, colloquial power of Lalla?s verse, stripping away a century of ornate, Victorian-inflected translations and paraphrases. In a radical break with the established convention of treating Lal D?d as a single author, Hoskote instead proposes the theory that her name stands for a contributory lineage of questors and reciters who followed in her wake. While introducing the reader to the philosophical, political and social contexts of the original poetry, Hoskote also attempts to address the troubled history of Kashmir through the figure of Lal D?d. Emotionally rich yet philosophically precise, sumptuously enigmatic yet crisply structured, Lalla?s poems in Ranjit Hoskote?s translation are glorious manifestos of illumination. * Ranjit Hoskote is a poet, cultural theorist and curator. His collections of poetry include *Vanishing Acts: New & Selected Poems 1985?2005* (Penguin, 2006) and *Die Ankunft** **der V?gel* (Carl Hanser Verlag, 2006). His poems have appeared in *Akzente*, *Boulevard **Magenta*, *Fulcrum*, *Green Integer Review*, *Iowa Review*, *Nthposition* and *Wespennest*. Hoskote was a Fellow of the International Writing Program, University of Iowa (1995) and writer-in-residence at Villa Waldberta, Munich (2003) and the Polish Institute, Berlin (2010). *I, Lalla appears in the Penguin Classics Series *** - *Hardcover:* 328 pages - *Publisher:* Penguin Books (May 15, 2011) - *Language:* English - *ISBN-10:* 0670084476 - *ISBN-13:* 978-0670084470 Available at : http://www.amazon.com/I-Lalla-Poems-Lal-Ded/dp/0670084476 ++++++++++++++++++ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu May 19 13:05:09 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:05:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Aisling Project Message-ID: _____________________________________ THE AISLING PROJECT presented by IMRAM in association with the Dublin Writers' Festival 8:00 p.m., Tuesday 24 May 2011 The Sugar Club, 8 Lower Lesson Street, Dublin 2, Ireland http://www.dublinwritersfestival.com Phone : 01-6040020 The aisling - or vision poem ? is a poetic form that developed during the late 17th and 18th centuries. In an aisling, Ireland appears to the poet in a vision or dream in the form of a woman, sometimes young and beautiful, sometimes aged and haggard. This figure is referred to in the poems as a sp?irbhean. She laments the state of the Irish people and predicts an imminent renewal of their fortunes, frequently linked to the return of a Stuart pretender to the English throne. The first and greatest of the aisling poets was Aodhag?n ? Rathaille - athair na haislinge (father of the aisling). In his hands, the aisling was a powerful mode of political writing. On Tuesday 24 May 2011, at 8:00 p.m., IMRAM with the Dublin Writers' Festival will stage a major reading in which leading Irish language poets Paddy Bushe, Gear?id Mac Lochlainn and Dairena N? Chinn?ide perform newly composed poems in the aisling form addressing the current state of Ireland. These poems will be performed with specially composed live music by acclaimed composer and multi-instrumentalist Se?n ?g McErlane, and on-screen projections by artist Margaret Lonergan. This event is curated by Liam Carson, director of the IMRAM Irish Language Literature Festival. In vision, S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org _____________________________________ From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 19 17:42:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:42:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art and Practice of the Ordinary Message-ID: <8CDE484D987869A-180C-11C85C@Webmail-m104.sysops.aol.com> http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_bernstein.php The Art and Practice of the Ordinary by Charles Bernstein In a society of the spectacle, such as American society, much of ordinary life is constructed by consumer culture. In this sense, the mall is the most ordinary environment and shopping the most ordinary activity. Yet, this kind of ordinary may be quite opposite to the everydayness a poet might want to evoke. http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo11397148.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 19 18:02:15 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:02:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Bill Kloefkorn Message-ID: <89F8D4FF-4058-439F-8540-F77513A97049@ripon.edu> http://journalstar.com/news/local/article_bbf17247-5f2f-5334-876b-a8d8f2f311fa.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu May 19 22:50:00 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:50:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?A_poet=92s_aphorisms=2E?= In-Reply-To: <28408757.1305779449273.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28408757.1305779449273.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks Mark, I was considering S. Buddha and the mushroom poisoning vis a vis INRI's crucifixion -- but, as an eccentric, I DO consider St. Agatha and the severed breasts; S. Lucia, the eyes on the platter. St. Babs and the tower. S. Buddah and the mushrooms. Jesus -- whatever you think. More soon.MW, after I sleep. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu May 19 23:32:27 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= Message-ID: <25016308.1305862347910.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 20 07:37:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:37:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Boring and Conservative Poetry In-Reply-To: <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><532077.2 9173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net><15353 8.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD65267.3050608@nut-n-but.net> Just a note to remind people that I'm not against W--and worth reading for the Larkin poem, although not one of his best, I don't think.. --Bob On 5/19/2011 3:30 AM, Suzi Hall wrote (at Poetryetc): > This poetry is so conservative and boring there is no point reading it >> Love Songs in Age... >> >> She kept her songs, they kept so little space, >> The covers pleased her: >> One bleached from lying in a sunny place, >> One marked in circles by a vase of water, >> One mended, when a tidy fit had seized her, >> And coloured, by her daughter - >> So they had waited, till, in widowhood >> She found them, looking for something else, and stood >> >> Relearning how each frank submissive chord >> Had ushered in >> Word after sprawling hyphenated word, >> And the unfailing sense of being young >> Spread out like a spring-woken tree, wherein >> That hidden freshness sung, >> That certainty of time laid up in store >> As when she played them first. But, even more, >> >> The glare of that much-mentioned brilliance, love, >> Broke out, to show >> Its bright incipience sailing above, >> Still promising to solve, and satisfy, >> And set unchangeably in order. So >> To pile them back, to cry, >> Was hard, without lamely admitting how >> It had not done so then, and could not now. >> >> >> Philip Larkin > Someone replied asking Suzi for examples of "present and future" poetry he was missing in his focus on "past and present" ones. > On 5/20/2011 4:40 AM, Kasper Salonen wrote: >> I'd trade "present and future" for "past and present" any day. :) >> >> KS > I've always had trouble understanding this attitude. Why the need to > trade rather than add to? > > --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri May 20 17:02:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> People saw the word piss and thought it a vulgar affront, but I think you're right in seeing it as true to the grotesque nature of the cross. I grew up seeing the crucified Christ weekly at Catholic Mass. The pathology of that image is unforgettable. And yet, as Simone Weil noted, the cross, and the suffering it represents, goes to the core of what Christianity is all about. We divide the calander by that event. And while thinkers such as Nietzche may have wished to develope a post Christian ethos, the cross remains, as you put it, a symbol of "ultimate humiliation." When I think of the damn thing, I'm reminded of the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is still very much alive. Alive and well. Especially at places such as Gitmo. ________________________________ From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:15:27 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. I disagree with certain Conservative thinkers who are offended by the painting, "Piss Christ." I attended the original gallery showing (Guggenheim Museum Gallery, Soho) and knew, immediately, that Serano was a profoundly religious painter. The Piss Christ is a work that acknowledges the core horror of the Crucifixion and Christ's mission, which was to descend into this horrible world and redeem humans of it. People forget, but, Andres Serrano didn't forget, that the crucifix, itself, was an instrument of torture. Humanitas can be ugly, cruel, and wickedly inventive in its torturous endeavors. I thought it quite brilliant of Serano to see that the same people who are offended by the Savior's descent into a realm of urine are the same people who see the murdered Savior nailed to a cross and do not demand that this revulsive engine of death and ultimate humiliation be removed from our world because it is offensive to the memory of Jesus, and like the aquarium of urine, it insults him - - as if he wasn't already insulted maximally. Serano is a profound and extremely devout Christian. Thus, until this writing, Piss Christ has been, perhaps, the most misunderstood, misread, artwork in human history. But, then, so was Christ, himself. ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri May 20 17:13:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Boring and Conservative Poetry In-Reply-To: <4DD65267.3050608@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><532077.2 9173.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DD18178.3050801@nut-n-but.net><15353 8.94711.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19017.4080307@nut-n-but.net> <4DD65267.3050608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <73998.69425.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Larkin was a true crank. He could be very British, and boring. But "They fuck you up/Your mum and dad" (This Be the Verse) is a wonderfully blunt, sad, and funny poem. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:37:11 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Boring and Conservative Poetry Just a note to remind people that I'm not against W--and worth reading for the Larkin poem, although not one of his best, I don't think.. --Bob On 5/19/2011 3:30 AM, Suzi Hall wrote (at Poetryetc): > This poetry is so conservative and boring there is no point reading it >> Love Songs in Age... >> >> She kept her songs, they kept so little space, >> The covers pleased her: >> One bleached from lying in a sunny place, >> One marked in circles by a vase of water, >> One mended, when a tidy fit had seized her, >> And coloured, by her daughter - >> So they had waited, till, in widowhood >> She found them, looking for something else, and stood >> >> Relearning how each frank submissive chord >> Had ushered in >> Word after sprawling hyphenated word, >> And the unfailing sense of being young >> Spread out like a spring-woken tree, wherein >> That hidden freshness sung, >> That certainty of time laid up in store >> As when she played them first. But, even more, >> >> The glare of that much-mentioned brilliance, love, >> Broke out, to show >> Its bright incipience sailing above, >> Still promising to solve, and satisfy, >> And set unchangeably in order. So >> To pile them back, to cry, >> Was hard, without lamely admitting how >> It had not done so then, and could not now. >> >> >> Philip Larkin > Someone replied asking Suzi for examples of "present and future" poetry he was missing in his focus on "past and present" ones. > On 5/20/2011 4:40 AM, Kasper Salonen wrote: >> I'd trade "present and future" for "past and present" any day. :) >> >> KS > I've always had trouble understanding this attitude. Why the need to > trade rather than add to? > > --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 20 17:46:57 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <969504.37794.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Further, urine is considered sterile when it initially leaves the body and is used to "cleanse" (or purify) in some cultures, removing impurities and pollutants.? At minimum, we all drink it in the womb and in cases of emergency to survive.? Serrano's symbolic use of "piss" suggests multiple readings. Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. People saw the word piss and thought it a vulgar affront, but I think you're right in seeing it as true to the grotesque nature of the cross. I grew up seeing the crucified Christ weekly at Catholic Mass. The pathology of that image is unforgettable. And yet, as Simone Weil noted, the cross, and the suffering it represents, goes to? the core of what Christianity is all about. We divide the calander by that event. And while thinkers such as Nietzche may have wished to develope a post Christian ethos, the cross remains, as you put it, a symbol of "ultimate humiliation." When I think of the damn thing, I'm reminded of the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is still very much alive. Alive and well. Especially at places such as Gitmo. ________________________________ From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:15:27 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. I disagree with certain Conservative thinkers who are offended by the painting, "Piss?Christ."? I attended the original gallery showing (Guggenheim Museum Gallery, Soho) and knew, immediately, that Serano was a profoundly religious painter.??The Piss Christ is a work that acknowledges the?core horror of the Crucifixion and Christ's mission, which was to descend into this horrible world and redeem?humans of it.? People forget, but, Andres Serrano didn't forget, that the crucifix, itself, was an instrument of torture.? Humanitas can be ugly, cruel, and?wickedly inventive in?its torturous endeavors.?? I thought it quite brilliant of Serano to see that?the same people who are offended by?the Savior's descent into a realm of urine are the same people who see the murdered Savior nailed to a cross and do not demand that this revulsive engine of death and ultimate humiliation be removed from our world because it is?offensive to?the memory of Jesus, and like the aquarium of urine, it insults him - - as if he wasn't already insulted maximally.? Serano is a?profound and extremely devout Christian.?? Thus, until this writing,? Piss Christ has been, perhaps, the most misunderstood, misread, artwork in human history.? But, then, so was Christ, himself. ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 20 19:19:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:19:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 20 19:58:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:58:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent Message-ID: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. -- A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 20 21:31:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 20:31:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent In-Reply-To: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net> On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html > I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of /A Human Document/ by W.H. > Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful > three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of > the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had > never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock > had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the > requisite level. > -- > A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay > to /Broken English/ (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). One of the early visual poetry masterpieces, Tom Phillips's /A Humament/. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 20 20:48:40 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 20:48:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent In-Reply-To: <4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> It's a good thing a W-poet like McHugh brought it to my attention. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] humunent On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. -- A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). One of the early visual poetry masterpieces, Tom Phillips's A Humament. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 07:41:33 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:41:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent In-Reply-To: <8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net> <8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Not Humunent, not Humament, but 'Humument'. I noticed we both misspelled the title. Not sure what that means. A neologism still morphing into variants. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] humunent It's a good thing a W-poet like McHugh brought it to my attention. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] humunent On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. -- A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). One of the early visual poetry masterpieces, Tom Phillips's A Humament. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 11:00:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:00:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent In-Reply-To: <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net><8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@W ebmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD7D389.8030101@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 6:41 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Not Humunent, not Humament, but > 'Humument'. Human Monument -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 11:03:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:03:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] humunent In-Reply-To: <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net><8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@W ebmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD7D45C.4060600@nut-n-but.net> > It's a good thing a W-poet like McHugh brought it to my attention. > Finnegan Phillips is a painter not a poet, so it's safe to bring up his visual poetry. Also, he's English. But I order McHugh's book. I strongly suspect Phillips failed to lead her into investigating any other visual poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 10:01:26 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:01:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net><8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDE5D6B58A30A1-22A8-60257@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the fashionable fragmentary style which was so a la mode from 2000 to 2010: "All poetry is fragment: it is shaped by its breakages, at every turn. It is the very art of turnings, toward the white frame of the page, toward the unsung, toward the vacancy made visible, that wordlessness in which our words are couched. Its lines insistently defy their own medium by averting themselves from the space available, affording the absent its say, not only at the poem?s outset and end by at each line?s outset and end. Richard Howard?s deft maxim (?prose proceeds, verse reverses?) catches the shifts in directionality implicit in the advertencies of verse. It means to aim at (as its means are) the untoward. A composed verse is a record of the meeting of the line and sentence, the advertent and the inadvertent: a succession of good turns done. The poem is not only a piece, like other pieces of art; it is a piece full of pieces." Heather McHugh, Broken English: Poetry and Partiality (Wesleyan Univ. Press, 1993) http://conjecturesatrandom.blogspot.com/2011/05/advertencies-of-verse.html - On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. -- A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. -- A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 21 10:30:57 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 10:43:34 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:43:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... > > You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. > > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. > > --Bob > __________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 10:47:13 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:47:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= Message-ID: <28819142.1305989234391.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat May 21 10:48:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <938174.92733.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> my bad. So much for memory. I thought the damn thing was a painting. True, the piece, by itself, is fairly conventional. But it glitters. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 10:43:34 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... > >You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint >applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a >museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... >Art. > > > > ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > >Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's >okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim >group. > >--Bob >__________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 11:07:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:07:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marianne Boruch in APR Message-ID: <125B26C7-E2D9-4CDA-8920-E0E0CBF2F8A0@ripon.edu> Let me highly recommend the latest (May/June) issue of The American Poetry Review. Specifically, an essay by Marianne Boruch titled "The Little Death of Self." It's one of the sanest, most nuanced treatments of the lyric that I've seen in ages. Beautifully written, as all her essays are, too. If you don't know her work, check out either of her two collections of essays--both top notch. Unfortunately for the current essay there isn't even an excerpt online at the APR site. Since it's the beginning of summer, let me also ask for recomendations of good essays about poetry. Has anyone here read David Orr's *Beautiful and Pointless*, for example? What else is on your active shelf? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat May 21 11:29:29 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:29:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Our man in West Hartford! On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 11:48:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:48:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <938174.92733.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net><164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> <938174.92733.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDE5E59E31E273-17E8-21A36@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Re painting, there was equally controversial use of elephant-dung in a painting of Jesus' mom... The Holy Virgin Mary, a 1996 collage by Chris Ofili, an award-winning British artist, which incorporates elephant feces. Mayor Guiliani of NYC threatened to cut funding for Broolyn Art Museum over the exhibit. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/991008/madonna.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 10:48 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ my bad. So much for memory. I thought the damn thing was a painting. True, the piece, by itself, is fairly conventional. But it glitters. From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 10:43:34 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. --Bob __________ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 12:57:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:57:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1. yahoo.com><4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD7EEEF.6080506@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... Right after I posted my message, I realized I should have said it was not art by my standards. By my standards, it's information--one person's opinion of a crucifix, not an attempt to create a work of aesthetic beauty, which is what art is in my philosophy. Regardless of what museum directors and the like say. Yes, I recognize that others will say it was an attempt to create a work of beauty, so it's my subjective view against theirs. But one can consider something beautiful that is not art. I'm not into the beauty of the corpses of torure victims, myself, but that's another region of subjectivity I'd prefer not getting into. --Bob > You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. > > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 11:53:04 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:53:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ Message-ID: <14039545.1305993184938.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 13:01:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:01:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marianne Boruch in APR In-Reply-To: <125B26C7-E2D9-4CDA-8920-E0E0CBF2F8A0@ripon.edu> References: <125B26C7-E2D9-4CDA-8920-E0E0CBF2F8A0@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DD7EFD7.9030502@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 10:07 AM, David Graham wrote: > Let me highly recommend the latest (May/June) issue of The American > Poetry Review. Specifically, an essay by Marianne Boruch titled "The > Little Death of Self." > > It's one of the sanest, most nuanced treatments of the lyric that I've > seen in ages. Beautifully written, as all her essays are, too. If > you don't know her work, check out either of her two collections of > essays--both top notch. > > Unfortunately for the current essay there isn't even an excerpt online > at the APR site. > > Since it's the beginning of summer, let me also ask for recomendations > of good essays about poetry. Has anyone here read David Orr's > *Beautiful and Pointless*, for example? I've read enough of it to stand by my claim that Orr is the worst visible critic of American poetry unless Vendler is. So you'd love it, David. --Bob From millb at aol.com Sat May 21 11:59:19 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net><164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDE5E72D5B7BC2-1860-19E79@webmail-d135.sysops.aol.com> I think it is a beautiful image. And it was meant to be a statement about how society has cheapened christ. The photo depicts a plastic and wood crucifix floating in a yellow liquid (that the artist claimed was his own urine). Millicent http://millicentborgesaccardi.com/ -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 7:43 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. --Bob __________ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 12:01:26 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Kloefkorn Message-ID: <9FC8E947-C2D4-499C-AAD9-1FB8F254CCD6@ripon.edu> Another obituary of Nebraska State Poet William Kloefkorn: http://www.omaha.com/article/20110520/NEWS01/705209871/0 I met Kloefkorn some years ago when we brought him to Ripon College for a visit. We had used his memoir, *This Death By Drowning*, in our First Year Reading Experience, in which all incoming students read a book in common and discuss it in various venues. Bill Kloefkorn was obviously a natural born teacher, a really affable guy, and a solid poet. I'll paste here the poem he recited for our academic convocation. I think he did a great job of producing a poem for this kind of formal, ceremonial occasion. Not an easy task by any means. Connections: A Toast Here's to the bur oak, *Quercus macrocarpa*, rising just beyond my office window, here's to window, to oxide and silicon, to their joining, here's to joining, to fusion, pro and con, to transparency that brings the eye of Renoir; two young students, woman and man, transecting the campus, here's to transecting, here's to campus, over their shoulders bookbags no doubt containing books, here's to books, Gray's *Anatomy*, perhaps, let's hear it for Gray, let's hear it for anatomy, and maybe something by Aeschylus or Plato, here's to Plato, and while we're at it here's to Socrates, to the goblet he raised to toast those immortal kissing cousins, inquiry and innovation, and perhaps at the bottoms of the bags some thoughts from Augustine or Jung, saint and otherwise, here's to saint, here's to otherwise, Jung who said *It is not Goethe who creates Faust, It is* Faust *that creates Goethe,* here's to Goethe and Faust, to a myriad of bone-and-brain creations, to the act that makes each beginning, to the moment whose enemy is stasis, to the runner on first with stealing on his mind, here's to the stolen base, the purloined kiss, here's to motion perpetual, here's to mind, to flesh, to the batter at the plate, Jackie Robinson, to the man on deck, Pee Wee Reese, to the hotdogs in the box seats, to the peanuts in the gallery, to Ebbets Field and to Fenway Park and to Rosa Parks who refusing to ride side-saddle becomes a blue-chip conscientious ob-jec-tor-- *There is some waste I will not eat*--so here's to Rosa Parks, to side, to saddle, to sound horse and to Crazy Horse whose hemlock was the feel of a cold bayonet, whose words were prayer because they were not meant as prayer--*It does not matter where this body lies, for it is grass; but where the spirit is, there it will be good for all of us to be*--and to the bird with its coat of many colors, bird just now perched on the topmost branch of the bur oak, *Quercus macrocarpa,* trilling now Bach, now Beethoven, now Louie Armstrong, trilling, with its unsplit tongue, one steady and diverse and universal song. --William Kloefkorn Ripon College September 16, 2003 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 13:07:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:07:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <8CDE5E59E31E273-17E8-21A36@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1. yahoo.com><4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net><164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@r ipon.edu><938174.92733.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDE5E59E31E273-17E8-21A36@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD7F134.4070703@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 10:48 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Re painting, there was equally controversial use of elephant-dung in a > painting of Jesus' mom... > The Holy Virgin Mary, a 1996 collage by Chris Ofili, an award-winning > British artist, which incorporates elephant feces. > Mayor Guiliani of NYC threatened to cut funding for Broolyn Art Museum > over the exhibit. > http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/991008/madonna.html > Finnegan Finally I know what my mathemaku are missing. --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 12:13:49 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:13:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marianne Boruch in APR In-Reply-To: <4DD7EFD7.9030502@nut-n-but.net> References: <125B26C7-E2D9-4CDA-8920-E0E0CBF2F8A0@ripon.edu> <4DD7EFD7.9030502@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <5B679D01-5F40-4FB6-8451-5247D1E25F9B@ripon.edu> On May 21, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> Has anyone here read David Orr's *Beautiful and Pointless*, for example? > > I've read enough of it... ========================== I very much doubt that. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 13:28:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:28:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <8CDE5D6B58A30A1-22A8-60257@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net><8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@W ebmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5D6B58A30A1-22A8-60257@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD7F658.2050805@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 9:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make > of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, > some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom > Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s > aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the > poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the > essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the > fashionable fragmentary style which was so /a la mode/ from 2000 to 2010: You don't think it was fashionable--in, say, Ashbery--long before that? It seems to me the essence of what the so-called language poets have been doing since the 70s, and became, in my opinion, acadominant for around 1990. I'm coming to the view that the Ashbery end of W. is mostly what I'm now calling "vaudevillic" poetry--because disconnected brief acts--and includes what the most known language poets have been doing, which has little to do with what I consider language poetry--which has in my view to do with what can been done poetically with grammar or inside words. In other words, real language poetry is still to the left of W, but certified "language poetry" is part of it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 13:32:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:32:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marianne Boruch in APR In-Reply-To: <5B679D01-5F40-4FB6-8451-5247D1E25F9B@ripon.edu> References: <125B26C7-E2D9-4CDA-8920-E0E0CBF2F8A0@ripon.edu><4DD7EFD7.9030502@nut-n-but.net> <5B679D01-5F40-4FB6-8451-5247D1E25F9B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DD7F73C.5030309@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 11:13 AM, David Graham wrote: > > On May 21, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> Has anyone here read David Orr's *Beautiful and Pointless*, for example? >> I've read enough of it... > ========================== > > I very much doubt that. Agreed. I've probably read more than enough of it. --Bob From jschickl at hotmail.com Sat May 21 12:30:49 2011 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:30:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: maasai pastoralists sterilize their milk gourds with cattle piss. neanderthals and indians would tan animal hides after pissing on them. pregnant women at some point in the second trimester begin to absorb the urine from the fetus as waste is exchanged for maternal blood through the intervillous space. shipwrecked people have survived by drinking their urine. piss shows up in lots of interesting places. Message: 3 Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Message-ID: <969504.37794.qm at web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Further, urine is considered sterile when it initially leaves the body and is used to "cleanse" (or purify) in some cultures, removing impurities and pollutants.? At minimum, we all drink it in the womb and in cases of emergency to survive.? Serrano's symbolic use of "piss" suggests multiple readings. Amy : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 12:34:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:34:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ/Andrew Hudgins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 21, 2011, at 11:30 AM, Jared Schickling wrote: > piss shows up in lots of interesting places. ============== I never leave home without some. . . . Just to turn this thread back toward poetry (I'm odd that way), how about Andrew Hudgins on the subject? Piss Christ Andres Serrano, 1987 If we did not know it was cow's blood and urine, if we did not know that Serrano had for weeks hoarded his urine in a plastic vat, if we did not know the cross was gimcrack plastic, we would assume it was too beautiful. We would assume it was the resurrection, glory, Christ transformed to light by light because the blood and urine burn like a halo, and light, as always, light makes it beautiful. We are born between the urine and the feces, Augustine says, and so was Christ, if there was a Christ, skidding into this world as we do on a tide of blood and urine. Blood, feces, urine? what the fallen world is made of, and what we make. He peed, ejaculated, shat, wept, bled? bled under Pontius Pilate, and I assume the mutilated god, the criminal, humiliated god, voided himself on the cross and the blood and urine smeared his legs and he ascended bodily unto heaven, and on the third day he rose into glory, which is what we see here, the Piss Christ in glowing blood: the whole irreducible point of the faith, God thrown in human waste, submerged and shining. We have grown used to beauty without horror. We have grown used to useless beauty. -- Andrew Hudgins ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 21 12:46:02 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:46:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QSBwb2V04oCZcyBhcGhvcmlzbXMu?= In-Reply-To: <28819142.1305989234391.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28819142.1305989234391.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Quite so. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 9:47 AM, wrote: > It's a photograph. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: May 21, 2011 10:30 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring > argument. I say is ... you say not... > > You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of > paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed > in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, > none-the-less ... Art. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but > it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official > victim group. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 12:57:54 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 13:06:30 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:06:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ/Andrew Hudgins Message-ID: <1216640.1305997591364.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 12:59:13 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:59:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ Message-ID: <18464965.1305997153756.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 13:21:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:21:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDE5F2B350950A-17E8-23DA0@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> I didn't mean to suggest McHugh set off a movement in any way. And McHugh's poetry I don't think of as particularly fragment driven. As you say, there were numerous antecedents...it's just that by the early 2000s it was almost the 'period style'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: May 21, 2011 1:28 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 9:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the fashionable fragmentary style which was so a la mode from 2000 to 2010: You don't think it was fashionable--in, say, Ashbery--long before that? It seems to me the essence of what the so-called language poets have been doing since the 70s, and became, in my opinion, acadominant for around 1990. I'm coming to the view that the Ashbery end of W. is mostly what I'm now calling "vaudevillic" poetry--because disconnected brief acts--and includes what the most known language poets have been doing, which has little to do with what I consider language poetry--which has in my view to do with what can been done poetically with grammar or inside words. In other words, real language poetry is still to the left of W, but certified "language poetry" is part of it. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 13:30:55 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:30:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <15195558.1305999056255.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 14:42:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:42:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD8079D.2030303@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 11:57 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back > considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years > old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, > Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to > the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. At least to "The Wasteland," as I've often said. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 13:38:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:38:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <15195558.1305999056255.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <15195558.1305999056255.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDE5F509A34D85-17E8-2420D@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Yes, I meant it dismissively 'so'. By the time anything is a recognizable style it's passe. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 1:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English My reaction was both a historical corrective and a sense of dismissiveness. Rather like "The sonnet was so a la mode 1560-1600." It's the implication in "fashionable" that its use was externally-mandated or driven (poetasters are always with us, of every stripe, so much so that pointing out their existence seems beside the point), and the archness of "so." . Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: May 21, 2011 1:21 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English I didn't mean to suggest McHugh set off a movement in any way. And McHugh's poetry I don't think of as particularly fragment driven. As you say, there were numerous antecedents...it's just that by the early 2000s it was almost the 'period style'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: May 21, 2011 1:28 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 9:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the fashionable fragmentary style which was so a la mode from 2000 to 2010: You don't think it was fashionable--in, say, Ashbery--long before that? It seems to me the essence of what the so-called language poets have been doing since the 70s, and became, in my opinion, acadominant for around 1990. I'm coming to the view that the Ashbery end of W. is mostly what I'm now calling "vaudevillic" poetry--because disconnected brief acts--and includes what the most known language poets have been doing, which has little to do with what I consider language poetry--which has in my view to do with what can been done poetically with grammar or inside words. In other words, real language poetry is still to the left of W, but certified "language poetry" is part of it. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 13:46:47 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:46:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <28488566.1306000008168.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 14:52:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:52:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <8CDE5F509A34D85-17E8-2420D@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> References: <15195558.1305999056255.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDE5F509A34D85-17E8-2420D@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD809F3.5080009@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 12:38 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Yes, I meant it dismissively 'so'. By the time anything is a > recognizable style it's passe. . The problem is false recognition--in this case of recognizing one kind of use of fragments as representative of all such use. I suspect that one kind of such use--Ashbery's, perhaps--was quite fashionable for a while--but that others'--Clark Coolidge's, for instance--has never become fashionable. But none of it is my kind of poetry, so my thoughts on it are just impressions. I'd love to see a taxonomy-based study of such poetry from "The Wasteland" (or before) to certain kinds of visual and other poetry not in W. If I were thirty years younger, I'd do one myself. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 14:31:55 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 14:31:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <28488566.1306000008168.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28488566.1306000008168.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDE5FC7F110C45-17E8-25A3C@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> A sentence is not a technique, in my view. Use of a 'sentence fragment' by itself might be closer to a technique: A poem composed of standard gramatical sentences might be interrupted by an emotional impulse that is composed of a sentence fragment. That would be a technique, conscious or unconsciously deployed, in compositon the poem. A style is a larger category than techique, in my way of thinking. A style could marked by a proclivity toward or constant use of a certain technique. The style could be recognizable by its persistant use of fragmentary composition. But I'm not talking about neophytes. What I'm saying is one could count into the hundreds if not thousands the books that were published during that timeframe with strung-together fragments as the primary driver of the poems. Some more interesting than others in both the unfolding and the content of the framentary material. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English A technique or a form is not a style. Otherwise standard sentences would be passe. You're complaint is really about the practice of neophytes whose work wouldn't see the light of day if not for the web. One of the dangers of the present is that poets no longer get to bury their juvenilia. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: May 21, 2011 1:38 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English Yes, I meant it dismissively 'so'. By the time anything is a recognizable style it's passe. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 1:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English My reaction was both a historical corrective and a sense of dismissiveness. Rather like "The sonnet was so a la mode 1560-1600." It's the implication in "fashionable" that its use was externally-mandated or driven (poetasters are always with us, of every stripe, so much so that pointing out their existence seems beside the point), and the archness of "so." . Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: May 21, 2011 1:21 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English I didn't mean to suggest McHugh set off a movement in any way. And McHugh's poetry I don't think of as particularly fragment driven. As you say, there were numerous antecedents...it's just that by the early 2000s it was almost the 'period style'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: May 21, 2011 1:28 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 9:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the fashionable fragmentary style which was so a la mode from 2000 to 2010: You don't think it was fashionable--in, say, Ashbery--long before that? It seems to me the essence of what the so-called language poets have been doing since the 70s, and became, in my opinion, acadominant for around 1990. I'm coming to the view that the Ashbery end of W. is mostly what I'm now calling "vaudevillic" poetry--because disconnected brief acts--and includes what the most known language poets have been doing, which has little to do with what I consider language poetry--which has in my view to do with what can been done poetically with grammar or inside words. In other words, real language poetry is still to the left of W, but certified "language poetry" is part of it. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 15:12:35 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 15:12:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <21349745.1306005155390.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat May 21 15:33:41 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <4DD8079D.2030303@nut-n-but.net> References: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DD8079D.2030303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <131947.25039.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> At least to the Wasteland? You Anglo-sacks-on?are such a slowpoke! Try Rimbaud's Illuminations, 1873-4, and maybe Corbi?re's Amours?jaunes, also 1873. Amicalement, Alex, 7 days and counting.... ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 8:42:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 11:57 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. > At least to "The Wasteland," as I've often said. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 15:37:25 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 15:37:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <32087159.1306006645196.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 17:01:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:01:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <32087159.1306006645196.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32087159.1306006645196.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD82820.2000809@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 2:37 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > But them's foreigners! . Right. Alex, you have to understand my limitations and realize that when I speak of poetry, I generally mean poetry in English, which is the only kind I can speak of and possibly know what I'm talking about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sat May 21 16:36:26 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 15:36:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem on the end of the world Message-ID: Oceans I have a feeling that my boat has struck, down there in the depths, against a great thing. And nothing happens! Nothing. . . Silence. . . Waves. . . --Nothing happens? Or has everything happened, and are we standing now, quietly, in the new life? --Juan Ram?n Jim?nez, trans. Robert Bly. Lorca & Jiminez: Selected Poems. Beacon Press, 1973. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat May 21 16:52:02 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 13:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <4DD82820.2000809@nut-n-but.net> References: <32087159.1306006645196.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DD82820.2000809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <516376.65215.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sure, Bob, but it's way too much fun to?poke fun at?the?gringos, right Mark? Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 11:01:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 2:37 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: But them's foreigners! >. Right.? Alex, you have to understand my limitations and realize that when I speak of poetry, I generally mean poetry in English, which is the only kind I can speak of and possibly know what I'm talking about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 21 16:55:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 15:55:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <8CDE5D6B58A30A1-22A8-60257@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDE560E911FFF3-22A8-4ABFB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com><4DD7160C.7080405@nut-n-but.net><8CDE567F622ADF3-22A8-4BF0E@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5C329E36021-22A8-5CA60@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> <8CDE5D6B58A30A1-22A8-60257@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9FA07F56-F24D-48C6-83C2-9A3C9D6AE536@ripon.edu> I've only glanced at this essay, and that some time ago, but McHugh's definition of the fragment and fragmentary seems capacious enough to move us beyond questions of period style and such. In that regard she appears to be pondering first principles and tracing instances through history, which seems sensible enough. I immediately thought of Whitman, whose most notable mode is the catalog, and whose greatest poem, "Song of Myself" is certainly an assemblage of brilliant fragments, at least when seen in light of the traditional expectations for narrative, argument, coherent development, and so forth. His mixing of levels of diction as well as shifts of tone and variations between proper as well as "improper" subject matter could also be seen as parallel aspects of his fragmented style. In part because of his Emersonian optimism, flag-waving patriotism and such, the Modernists had famously conflicted feelings about Whitman. But it's hard to imagine "The Waste Land," *Paterson*, or *The Cantos* without Whitman's example. When I teach "Song of Myself" one of the things I always zero in on are those sections that are perfectly conventional in terms of narrative and so forth, juxtaposing them to those other sections that bounce all over the place with minimal connective tissue. Clearly Whitman *could* have written the whole thing in a more conventional manner. Why he might have chosen to mix the fragmentary with the non-fragmentary strikes me as a very interesting question to pose. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:01 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > A quote below from title essay, "Broken, As in English: What We Make of Fragments." The essay quotes some of the pre-Socratic fragments, some of what little is left of Archilochus, page examples from Tom Phillips' Humument, and a few bits from Friedrich Schlegel?s aphorisms. The essay being a paean to the fragment as an engine of the poetry. Gets a little repetitive in places, but I would recommend the essay, and I would say the essay somewhat pre-dates (1993) the fashionable fragmentary style which was so a la mode from 2000 to 2010: > > "All poetry is fragment: it is shaped by its breakages, at every turn. It is the very art of turnings, toward the white frame of the page, toward the unsung, toward the vacancy made visible, that wordlessness in which our words are couched. Its lines insistently defy their own medium by averting themselves from the space available, affording the absent its say, not only at the poem?s outset and end by at each line?s outset and end. Richard Howard?s deft maxim (?prose proceeds, verse reverses?) catches the shifts in directionality implicit in the advertencies of verse. It means to aim at (as its means are) the untoward. > > A composed verse is a record of the meeting of the line and sentence, the advertent and the inadvertent: a succession of good turns done. The poem is not only a piece, like other pieces of art; it is a piece full of pieces." > > Heather McHugh, Broken English: Poetry and Partiality (Wesleyan Univ. Press, 1993) > > http://conjecturesatrandom.blogspot.com/2011/05/advertencies-of-verse.html > > - > On 5/20/2011 6:58 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> http://humument.com/gallery/tetrad/0/001010/index.html >> >> I found, for exactly threepence, a copy of A Human Document by W.H. Mallock, published in 1892 as a popular reprint of a successful three-decker. It was already in its seventh thousand at the time of the copy I acquired and cost originally three and sixpence. I had never heard of W.H. Mallock and it was fortunate for me that his stock had depreciated at the rate of a halfpenny a year to reach the requisite level. >> -- >> A book/artwork praised extravagantly in Heather McHugh's title essay to Broken English (Wesleyan U. Press, 1993). > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 21 18:16:49 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 17:16:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem on the end of the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, yes. The pride of UM's College Park campus. I've taught classes in the building named for him there. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 3:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > *Oceans* > > > I have a feeling that my boat > has struck, down there in the depths, > against a great thing. > And nothing > happens! Nothing. . . Silence. . . Waves. . . > > --Nothing happens? Or has everything happened, > and are we standing now, quietly, in the new life? > > --Juan Ram?n Jim?nez, trans. Robert Bly. * Lorca & Jiminez: Selected > Poems*. Beacon Press, 1973. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 19:09:15 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:09:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 21 19:12:00 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:12:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <32950.1306019520538.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 19:24:16 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:24:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <131947.25039.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DD8079D.2030303@nut-n-but.net> <131947.25039.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDE6255625D99B-17E8-2C721@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> McHugh points back to the fragments we have left from the Greeks as inflecting Western poetics. Eastern (Chinese & Japanese) poetics was always much more about a broken off moment in time, the apprehension arrested and displayed. The prose poem I think the French can fairly claim as their invention. In this U.S. I would say the heyday of prose poem was 1990s. Unfortunately too many poets who took up the form were imitators of Edson and SImic. So if the prose poems weren't absurd they were surreal. I really was overstating things when I used the term 'period style'. I don't think with the proliferation of publishing venues there will ever be again (if there ever was) a true period style. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English At least to the Wasteland? You Anglo-sacks-on are such a slowpoke! Try Rimbaud's Illuminations, 1873-4, and maybe Corbi?re's Amours jaunes, also 1873. Amicalement, Alex, 7 days and counting.... www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 8:42:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English On 5/21/2011 11:57 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: Building poems entirely or partially out of fragments goes back considerably further (remember, Charles Bernstein was all 0f 20 years old in 1970), certainly to Olson, MacLow, Schwerner, Rothenberg, Kuenstler, etc. Some of these have been gathered in retroactively to the Language fold, with varying degrees of willingness. At least to "The Wasteland," as I've often said. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 21:02:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:02:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <32950.1306019520538.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32950.1306019520538.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD86089.20905@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 6:12 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Jeez, Alex, I wouldn't know. I never make fun of anyone. . Me, neither. There's too much danger of offending someone. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 21 21:12:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:12:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <8CDE6255625D99B-17E8-2C721@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> References: <17119665.1305997074779.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DD8079D.2030303@nut-n-but.net><131947.2503 9.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CDE6255625D99B-17E8-2C721@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DD862EB.3010405@nut-n-but.net> On 5/21/2011 6:24 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > McHugh points back to the fragments we have left from the Greeks as > inflecting Western poetics. Eastern (Chinese & Japanese) poetics was > always much more about a broken off moment in time, the apprehension > arrested and displayed. > . The haiku might be said to be two fragments--but always finding a mood or something to coalesce in. As, for me, Whitman's "Song of Myself" passages do. All part of his personality that encompasses the cosmos, and stated as such. I don't find them anything like as fragmentary as "The Wasteland," much less the more "experimental" fragmentariness of the Ashbery end of the mainstream. I think (without having researched it) that there's an important difference between poets pushing disjunctiveness that makes the reaching of a final aesthetic whole difficult but still achievable (as may be the case in "The Wasteland," and was Pound's futile hope for his "Cantos") and certain late twentieth-century poets pushing disjunctiveness that stays disjunctive. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 21 20:09:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:09:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bad Boy Reports on the Rapture Message-ID: May 21, 2011 My parents and my little sister were raptured up and all that they left me was this crummy t-shirt. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat May 21 20:38:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:38:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bad Boy Reports on the Rapture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDE62FBBB07F98-17E8-2E983@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Bye, Hal, we'll miss you. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 8:09 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bad Boy Reports on the Rapture May 21, 2011 My parents and my little sister were raptured up and all that they left me was this crummy t-shirt. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat May 21 22:26:08 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:26:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <18464965.1305997153756.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18464965.1305997153756.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Like the Corcoran show with Serrano's bodily fluids series and -- to me, not including the *canonical Patti Smith portrait* -- but Mapplethorpe's least interesting work, I was lucky enough to see the Sensation exhibit -- *and to bring my entire family*. I am also lucky in that I know some super duper artists in the Saachi collection. Not making dead sharks. The dead shark was especially moving. Chris Ofili (sp) -- the elephant dung piece -- was, I felt, less successful -- is was essentially a Madonna, and as a religious figure, not as integrated as Serrano's. I.e. It was pretty, it did not deal with African folk lore images enough for my taste, and I saw it during the uproar, so they had venting fans around the elephant poop -- but... sensational? Not sure. All best, C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 22 02:38:02 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 06:38:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com><4DD18178, , .3050801@nut-n-but.net><4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, , <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, , <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, , <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net>, <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I saw Serrano's exhibit at the Soho Guggenheim. The work is intended to reinstruct our perception of the Crucifixion. Serrano is a Christian. The Crucifix is a an instrument of torture. Jesus Christ descended into this realm of torture, blood, offal, and urine, to redeem us, to lead us from the merde to the light. He, therefore, descended into this vast toxic ocean, dunked into it. I don't seek to be disrespectful when I saw that the Crucifix is the first waterboard, in this metaphorical depiction of what Jesus undertook to redeem. People see crucifixes all over the place, all the time, as mere talismans, at best. Serrano is a believer. People have stopped seeing the real terms of what was undertaken by Christ, what is always being undertaken by Christ. Those who are offended, because they are believers, or those who are not believers and see this work as a confirmation of their disbelief, are both mistaken about its intent. It's a serious confrontation in art by a serious artist. A religious artist. A Christian. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:43:34 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring argument. I say is ... you say not... You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, none-the-less ... Art. From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official victim group. --Bob __________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 22 02:49:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:49:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I think I will stick to Richard's view. Although, even if Serrano is American, he still comes from Guatemala, and the series of pictures the net offers, witness his origins in a powerful way - with Garrison Keillor, Norwegians would never think of similar artworks. Re.: feces and the like, tribute has to be given to Piero Manzoni who in 1961 canned his own shit. Interpretations blossomed one after the other, like the petals of the roses I am lucky to see along the promenades of the Talvera River here in town these days. http://www.google.com/search?q=piero+manzoni+merde+d%27artiste&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SL3&rls=com.google:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=dbHYTaz8CZHKswa1kvX3Ag&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=719 On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: > I saw Serrano's exhibit at the Soho Guggenheim. The work is intended > to reinstruct our perception of the Crucifixion. Serrano is a Christian. > The Crucifix is a an instrument of torture. Jesus Christ descended into > this realm of torture, blood, offal, and urine, to redeem us, to lead us > from the merde to the light. > He, therefore, descended into this vast toxic ocean, dunked into it. I > don't seek to be disrespectful when I saw that the Crucifix is the first > waterboard, in this metaphorical depiction of what Jesus undertook to > redeem. People see crucifixes all over the place, all the time, as mere > talismans, at best. Serrano is a believer. People have stopped seeing the > real terms of what was undertaken by Christ, what is always being undertaken > by Christ. Those who are offended, because they are believers, or those who > are not believers and see this work as a confirmation of their disbelief, > are both mistaken about its intent. It's a serious confrontation in art by > a serious artist. A religious artist. A Christian. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > From: grahamd at ripon.edu > Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:43:34 -0500 > To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ > > "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the > artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is > his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like > a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain > glow. It's actually quite beautiful. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring > argument. I say is ... you say not... > > You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of > paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed > in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, > none-the-less ... Art. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but > it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official > victim group. > > --Bob > __________ > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun May 22 02:56:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:56:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Bad Boy Reports on the Rapture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: although the lines end in monosyllabic words, there is something with that T-shirt, are you sure it is crummy? "Canned reality decants" -Thornton Ludwig On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > May 21, 2011 > > > > My parents and my little > > sister were raptured up > > and all that they left me > > was this crummy t-shirt. > > > > > > > > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 22 10:01:14 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 14:01:14 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com>, , , <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net>, <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net>, <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net>, <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu>, , Message-ID: As Eliot wrote in, "East Coker": "Humility is endless." And, personally, I add: Humiliation, i.e., The Lord came to our earth, and was humiliated, pissed on by us, for all His trouble, slandered by a trick of ACLU lawyers. Then, Eliot, a Christian artist, as is Serrano, gets quite specific, and very much on the same track, when the lawyers go to church for redemption: The dripping blood our only drink, The bloody flesh our only food: In spite of which we like to think That we are sound, substantial flesh and blood? Again, in spite of that, we call this Friday good. RD Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:49:46 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ I think I will stick to Richard's view. Although, even if Serrano is American, he still comes from Guatemala, and the series of pictures the net offers, witness his origins in a powerful way - with Garrison Keillor, Norwegians would never think of similar artworks. Re.: feces and the like, tribute has to be given to Piero Manzoni who in 1961 canned his own shit. Interpretations blossomed one after the other, like the petals of the roses I am lucky to see along the promenades of the Talvera River here in town these days. http://www.google.com/search?q=piero+manzoni+merde+d%27artiste&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SL3&rls=com.google:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=dbHYTaz8CZHKswa1kvX3Ag&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=719 On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: I saw Serrano's exhibit at the Soho Guggenheim. The work is intended to reinstruct our perception of the Crucifixion. Serrano is a Christian. The Crucifix is a an instrument of torture. Jesus Christ descended into this realm of torture, blood, offal, and urine, to redeem us, to lead us from the merde to the light. He, therefore, descended into this vast toxic ocean, dunked into it. I don't seek to be disrespectful when I say that the Crucifix is the first waterboard, in this metaphorical depiction of what Jesus undertook to redeem. People see crucifixes all over the place, ubiquitous, all the time, as mere talismans, at best. Serrano is a believer. People have stopped seeing the real terms of what was undertaken by Christ, what is always being undertaken by Christ. Those who are offended, because they are believers, or those who are not believers and see this work as a confirmation of their disbelief, are both mistaken about its intent. It's a serious confrontation in art by a serious artist. A religious artist. A Christian. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:43:34 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain glow. It's actually quite beautiful. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun May 22 10:28:03 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 07:28:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Yes, but in my first book, I try my very best to point out that humility is 1) the low road, not the high road, nor the "middle way", 2) is often used to denigrate women (we're a majority!) and minority populations, 3) love and humility are usually set in opposition to rationality and thus, rationality to women and minority populations. But in Catherine Daly world, some guy showed up, his name was Jesus, was pretty cool. Hung with the hookers and the fishermen, had some good thoughts, and some really throwback ones that aren't true, and then he was executed. He is not "the Christ", and to call an artist a "Christian artist" is meaningless, although, given the media storm that accompanied Serrano's work -- at the time, I didn't think it was super duper work, but I was glad it got a world audience -- I do not blame him for falling back to a claim of belief. It to me is a shame that Mapplethorpe's reputation, after all those pictures, all his suffering -- NEEDED Patti Smith, and that Patti Smith needed Patti Smith -- that we as an artistic community aren't caring for each other. Be well, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 22 10:28:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:28:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: So hard to know intent. Especially when artists are likely to say anything about their work. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 1:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: > I saw Serrano's exhibit at the Soho Guggenheim. The work is intended > to reinstruct our perception of the Crucifixion. Serrano is a Christian. > The Crucifix is a an instrument of torture. Jesus Christ descended into > this realm of torture, blood, offal, and urine, to redeem us, to lead us > from the merde to the light. > He, therefore, descended into this vast toxic ocean, dunked into it. I > don't seek to be disrespectful when I saw that the Crucifix is the first > waterboard, in this metaphorical depiction of what Jesus undertook to > redeem. People see crucifixes all over the place, all the time, as mere > talismans, at best. Serrano is a believer. People have stopped seeing the > real terms of what was undertaken by Christ, what is always being undertaken > by Christ. Those who are offended, because they are believers, or those who > are not believers and see this work as a confirmation of their disbelief, > are both mistaken about its intent. It's a serious confrontation in art by > a serious artist. A religious artist. A Christian. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > From: grahamd at ripon.edu > Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:43:34 -0500 > To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ > > "Piss Christ" is a photograph, not a painting. And we have only the > artist's word that the yellow liquid in which the crucifix is submerged is > his own urine. Without that testimony, and the title, the piece looks like > a fairly conventional religious image: Christ and the cross have a certain > glow. It's actually quite beautiful. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 21, 2011, at 9:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > So it was a gesture rather than "art." & we're back to the same boring > argument. I say is ... you say not... > > You will, Bob, agree, that Piss Christ was an object that consisted of > paint applied to canvas, and that particular canvas was at one time framed > in a museum. You may think it Bad art. But by definition, it was, > none-the-less ... Art. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, May 20, 2011 7:19:33 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] A poet?s aphorisms. > > Whatever meaning you give Serrano's gesture, it was trite and not art--but > it's okay, because the people it offended are not members of an official > victim group. > > --Bob > __________ > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 22 10:30:37 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:30:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Let's too give him credit for chasing away the bankers. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Yes, but in my first book, I try my very best to point out that humility is > 1) the low road, not the high road, nor the "middle way", 2) is often used > to denigrate women (we're a majority!) and minority populations, 3) love and > humility are usually set in opposition to rationality and thus, rationality > to women and minority populations. > > But in Catherine Daly world, some guy showed up, his name was Jesus, was > pretty cool. Hung with the hookers and the fishermen, had some good > thoughts, and some really throwback ones that aren't true, and then he was > executed. He is not "the Christ", and to call an artist a "Christian > artist" is meaningless, although, given the media storm that accompanied > Serrano's work -- at the time, I didn't think it was super duper work, but I > was glad it got a world audience -- I do not blame him for falling back to a > claim of belief. > > It to me is a shame that Mapplethorpe's reputation, after all those > pictures, all his suffering -- NEEDED Patti Smith, and that Patti Smith > needed Patti Smith -- that we as an artistic community aren't caring for > each other. > > Be well, > Catherine > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun May 22 10:36:33 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 07:36:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Oh, please. Is an artist who doesn't know her or his intent really "doing it"? And since artists are interpreters, doesn't it follow that artists who are interpreting their work correctly, I dunno -- I give them a mental point? And also, I was working at a bank on Park Avenue when I walked to the show on lunch hour (it wasn't the original show in SoHo, which was undoable, forth and back, in an hour), and the show I saw was in the lobby of a bank. I think it is a mark of artistic maturity when an artist "represents." Just like Hermes scarves, Chanel purses, and Armani suits used to get me into the Goldman Sachs elevator. (Yeah, found dumpster diving, but who knew?) Be well, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 22 10:41:42 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:41:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Piss Christ In-Reply-To: References: <8CDE09EEBB99BA5-1780-4FC0E@Webmail-d114.sysops.aol.com> <4DD18F9E.8020601@nut-n-but.net> <748101.93107.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD19C9A.2060209@nut-n-but.net> <567830.34999.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <838086.47577.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DD6F705.9030709@nut-n-but.net> <164666.66389.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <972DB583-53FF-417F-A8F7-5DB94FA8C263@ripon.edu> Message-ID: In a word: yes. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Oh, please. Is an artist who doesn't know her or his intent really "doing > it"? And since artists are interpreters, doesn't it follow that artists who > are interpreting their work correctly, I dunno -- I give them a mental > point? > > And also, I was working at a bank on Park Avenue when I walked to the show > on lunch hour (it wasn't the original show in SoHo, which was undoable, > forth and back, in an hour), and the show I saw was in the lobby of a bank. > > > I think it is a mark of artistic maturity when an artist "represents." > Just like Hermes scarves, Chanel purses, and Armani suits used to get me > into the Goldman Sachs elevator. (Yeah, found dumpster diving, but who > knew?) > > Be well, Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 22 11:40:48 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:40:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> Yes, and I think McHugh's right--if I understand her point, what she's talking about is not a particular technique but an effect reachable by various means at various times, one of those first principles that I referred to before. The high modernists, who were crazy about collage, were in this light not inventing anything entirely new so much as finding a fresh path to an age-old destination. (All worthy destinations are age-old?) This principle of disjunction, then, is visible in Whitman's whip-saw juxtapositions, Stein's fracturing of syntax, Eliot's fragments shored against the ruins, the electric leap in a haiku, surrealist imagery, and so forth, right up through more recent instances such as Ginsberg's "hydrogen jukebox" and Ashbery's ruminative ramblings. I'm just thinking aloud here, and no doubt overgeneralizing, but it occurs to me that there is at least a kinship between poetry such as Dean Young's and a lot of language-centered poetry with which it wouldn't normally be compared. Rather like Ashbery, Young employs utterly conventional syntax, image, and figure; but the results are most slippery and unparaphraseable. He doesn't fracture language itself, but there is plenty of disjunction and fragmentation at the conceptual level. If you focus mostly on the easy binaries (style/theme; free verse/meter; traditional/experimental) you would naturally miss recognizing this sort of kinship. If, for example, all your definitions of poetry focused relentlessly on purely technical matters such as the handling of syntax. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 21, 2011, at 6:09 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > > Great Whitman comments. > > Another way of conceptualizing working with disparate fragments is as collage. Pretty much the way I understand it in my own work. > > Best, > > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > Sent: May 21, 2011 4:55 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Broken English > > I've only glanced at this essay, and that some time ago, but McHugh's definition of the fragment and fragmentary seems capacious enough to move us beyond questions of period style and such. In that regard she appears to be pondering first principles and tracing instances through history, which seems sensible enough. > > I immediately thought of Whitman, whose most notable mode is the catalog, and whose greatest poem, "Song of Myself" is certainly an assemblage of brilliant fragments, at least when seen in light of the traditional expectations for narrative, argument, coherent development, and so forth. His mixing of levels of diction as well as shifts of tone and variations between proper as well as "improper" subject matter could also be seen as parallel aspects of his fragmented style. > > In part because of his Emersonian optimism, flag-waving patriotism and such, the Modernists had famously conflicted feelings about Whitman. But it's hard to imagine "The Waste Land," *Paterson*, or *The Cantos* without Whitman's example. > > When I teach "Song of Myself" one of the things I always zero in on are those sections that are perfectly conventional in terms of narrative and so forth, juxtaposing them to those other sections that bounce all over the place with minimal connective tissue. Clearly Whitman *could* have written the whole thing in a more conventional manner. Why he might have chosen to mix the fragmentary with the non-fragmentary strikes me as a very interesting question to pose. > > > ======================================== > David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 22 12:11:55 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 12:11:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English Message-ID: <6644068.1306080715772.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 20:15:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 19:15:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> > If you focus mostly on the easy binaries (style/theme; free > verse/meter; traditional/experimental) you would naturally miss > recognizing this sort of kinship. If, for example, all your > definitions of poetry focused relentlessly on purely technical matters > such as the handling of syntax. > I suppose if you focused all your consideration of poetry on the techniques objectively distinguishing each kind from all others, you'd possibly miss as much as ten percent of the things you'd miss if you focused it only on the trivial kinships that can be found between any two kinds of poems. (Note: there is more to appreciating poetry than defining it, although that's the most important part of intelligently appreciating it.) --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 20:24:47 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 19:24:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DD9A94F.3080002@nut-n-but.net> > > (All worthy destinations are age-old?) . I would say all worthy destinations are much more age-old than new, but never not-new in some significant way. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 22 19:20:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:20:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon.edu> <4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Disagree, of course. I'd say defining is the least important aspect of appreciation. No surprise, eh? "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > If you focus mostly on the easy binaries (style/theme; free verse/meter; >> traditional/experimental) you would naturally miss recognizing this sort of >> kinship. If, for example, all your definitions of poetry focused >> relentlessly on purely technical matters such as the handling of syntax. >> >> I suppose if you focused all your consideration of poetry on the > techniques objectively distinguishing each kind from all others, you'd > possibly miss as much as ten percent of the things you'd miss if you focused > it only on the trivial kinships that can be found between any two kinds of > poems. (Note: there is more to appreciating poetry than defining it, > although that's the most important part of intelligently appreciating it.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 20:51:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 19:51:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon. edu><4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD9AFA8.3040204@nut-n-but.net> On 5/22/2011 6:20 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Disagree, of course. I'd say defining is the least > important aspect of appreciation. No surprise, eh? . Haw, actually, I'm /shocked /that you would consider knowing what you're appreciating the least important aspect of appreciation, Hal. I've always taken you to disprove Snow's idea of two cultures. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 20:53:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 19:53:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><9459B83D-DACE-406C-9F5D-4F9F47D54669@ripon. edu><4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD9B00F.6050805@nut-n-but.net> On 5/22/2011 6:20 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Disagree, of course. I'd say defining is the least > important aspect of appreciation. No surprise, eh? . Ooops, I read you too fast. You didn't contradict me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun May 22 19:57:31 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:57:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: <4DD9AFA8.3040204@nut-n-but.net> References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net> <4DD9AFA8.3040204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I didn't say "knowing," se?or. I said "defining." "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/22/2011 6:20 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Disagree, of course. I'd say defining is the least > important aspect of appreciation. No surprise, eh? > > . > Haw, actually, I'm *shocked *that you would consider knowing what you're > appreciating the least important aspect of appreciation, Hal. I've always > taken you to disprove Snow's idea of two cultures. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 21:52:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:52:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net><4DD9AFA8.3040204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD9BDDC.7030009@nut-n-but.net> On 5/22/2011 6:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I didn't say "knowing," se?or. I said "defining." True, I forgot about the way animals know things. But, as my later post indicated, I was speaking of /intelligent/ appreciation. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun May 22 21:56:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:56:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Broken English In-Reply-To: References: <31740649.1306019355778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DD9A73F.4040706@nut-n-but.net><4DD9AFA8.3040204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DD9BEB5.5020204@nut-n-but.net> On 5/22/2011 6:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I didn't say "knowing," se?or. I said "defining." Not that the way animals know things isn't the basis of all knowledge. Just that extending that knowledge into verbalization allows one to communicate it, and fully appreciate it due to what the verbal knowledge connects one to. But aconceptuality is much more relaxing, I'm sure. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 23 11:25:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:25:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young on NPR Message-ID: <779C589C-A4B1-4242-A19A-CB9489739411@ripon.edu> In case you missed it, an NPR interview with Dean Young about life and poetry after his heart transplant. http://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136358656/the-heart-of-dean-youngs-pre-transplant-poetry And here's a snippet from his forthcoming new-and-selected poems: How Grasp Green Trees I have planted: an ash, the first, over my dead cat in Bloomington 6 years later bent and huge and full of mocking birds. Why not when we die, we come back as myriad-minded? 2 blossoming pears that didn't blossom until I sold the house on Hawthorne for less than I paid. Melodious racket: What for? What for? All prepositions are hopeful but opaque is the afterlife. A tiny birch that didn't make one March. The eye is always skyward, thus we are bound in sheaves of light and may we be buried in greeny earth. An expensive, doted-on Japanese cherry?every spring morning with miniscule clippers, I'd snip tiny cross-branches then that long Iowa winter girdled by starving rabbits, ripped apart by starving deer braving the crossing from the cemetery. Who can doubt this world's brutality. Who questions the mercy of hidden green back, a weeping pussy willow, 4 furs that will grow into a living fence? And this is how I find myself wandering a temple. Excerpted from Bender: New & Selected Poems by Dean Young. Copyright 2012 by Dean Young. Excerpted by permission of Copper Canyon Press. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 24 12:43:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:43:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Palace grand opening In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDE848CCAB74BC-19C0-E12D@Webmail-m114.sysops.aol.com> Harriet Monroe, who founded Poetry magazine in 1912 and wrote that her publication was ?a modest effort to give to poetry her own place.? 2011, rewritten as, "an immoderate effort to give to poetry her own palace" -----Original Message----- From: Poetry Foundation To: Jim Finnegan Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 12:32 pm Subject: For Immediate Release: Poetry Foundation Announces Open House in Chicago Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view it in your web browser. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE MAY 24, 2011 Poetry Foundation Announces Open House? Two-day Celebration Features Performances in New Cultural Building Dedicated to Poetry? CHICAGO ? The Poetry Foundation is pleased to announce that its new building will open to the public on June 25. To celebrate, the Foundation will host a two-day Open House June 25 and 26, featuring poetry readings by Elizabeth Alexander, Sandra Cisneros, Billy Collins, Robert Hass, Edward Hirsch, Ange Mlinko, Atsuro Riley, and Kay Ryan; children?s poetry readings by Mary Ann Hoberman, J. Patrick Lewis, and Jack Prelutsky; a presentation by building architect John Ronan; performances by Poetry Out Loud participants; and panel discussions, book signings, and much more. Free tickets to all of the performances will be made available beginning May 24 through an online reservation system, and visitors are welcome to explore the new building throughout the weekend. A full schedule and details about the activities can be found at www.poetryfoundation.org/openhouse. The building?s primary purpose is to help the Foundation carry out its mission of discovering and celebrating the best poetry and putting it before the largest possible audience. The ground floor of the two-story building is devoted to public use, including a multipurpose performance space acoustically designed for spoken word; a public garden; a library containing a 35,000-volume non-circulating collection; and an exhibition gallery. The building also fulfills the vision of Harriet Monroe, who founded Poetry magazine in 1912 and wrote that her publication was ?a modest effort to give to poetry her own place.? The first building in Chicago dedicated solely to the art of poetry, the new space realizes Monroe?s dream, set out in her very first editorial, that the magazine would help poets pursue their art, increase public interest in poetry, and raise poetry?s profile in our culture. The Poetry Foundation?s new home is one of only three public spaces in the nation built exclusively for the advancement of poetry, along with Poets House in Manhattan and the dedicated poetry center at the University of Arizona. About the Poetry Foundation The Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine and one of the largest literary organizations in the world, exists to discover and celebrate the best poetry and to place it before the largest possible audience. The Poetry Foundation seeks to be a leader in shaping a receptive climate for poetry by developing new audiences, creating new avenues for delivery, and encouraging new kinds of poetry through innovative literary prizes and programs. For more information, please visit www.poetryfoundation.org. Follow the Poetry Foundation and Poetry on Facebook at www.facebook.com/poetryfoundation or on Twitter @PoetryFound. About Poetry Founded in Chicago by Harriet Monroe in 1912, Poetry is the oldest monthly devoted to verse in the English-speaking world. Monroe?s ?Open Door? policy, set forth in Volume I of the magazine, remains the most succinct statement of Poetry ?s mission: to print the best poetry written today, in whatever style, genre, or approach. The magazine established its reputation early by publishing the first important poems of T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, Marianne Moore, Wallace Stevens, H.D., William Carlos Williams, Carl Sandburg, and other now-classic authors. In succeeding decades it has presented?often for the first time?works by virtually every major contemporary poet. View this release online. View this release online. Forward to a friend Find us on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Contact POETRY FOUNDATION 444 North Michigan Avenue Chicago, IL 60611 312.799.8016 Media Contact: Stephanie Hlywak Discover more poetry Sign up to receive the latest Poetry Foundation news, articles, and releases. You have received this newsletter because you submitted your email address at http://www.poetryfoundation.org. You may unsubscribe or change your newsletter subscription preferences at any time. Copyright ? 2010 Poetry Foundation | 444 North Michigan Avenue, Suite 1850, Chicago, IL 60611 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 24 14:01:25 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:01:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday to You Message-ID: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/24/136470340/cake-is-just-a-four-letter-word-dylan-turns-70 especially for Tad, :-) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue May 24 14:11:05 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 13:11:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday to You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDBF4B9.9070407@louisiana.edu> And while we're on the subject, the NY Times tells me today that on May 24, 1883, the Brooklyn Bridge, linking Brooklyn and Manhattan, was opened to traffic. So here's to Whitman and Crane on Dylan's birthday--one good monument deserves another. Jerry On 5/24/2011 1:01 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.npr.org/2011/05/24/136470340/cake-is-just-a-four-letter-word-dylan-turns-70 > > especially for Tad, :-) > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue May 24 14:48:52 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 13:48:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday to You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDBFD94.30902@louisiana.edu> Heaven bless you, Wikipedia, for filling my lonely hours, or, Elsewhere, on the 24th of May, a Selection: Events * 1626 -- Peter Minuit buys Manhattan . * 1830 -- /Mary Had a Little Lamb / by Sarah Josepha Hale is published. * 1844 -- Samuel Morse sends the message "What hath God wrought" (a biblical quotation, Numbers 23:23) from the Old Supreme Court Chamber in the United States Capitol to his assistant, Alfred Vail , in Baltimore , Maryland to inaugurate the first telegraph line. * 1895 -- Henry Irving becomes the first person from the theatre to be knighted . * 1921 -- The trial of Sacco and Vanzetti opens. * 1930 -- Amy Johnson lands in Darwin, Northern Territory , becoming the first woman to fly solo from England to Australia (she left on May 5 for the 11,000 mile flight). * 1935 -- The first night game in Major League Baseball history is played in Cincinnati, Ohio , with the Cincinnati Reds beating the Philadelphia Phillies 2-1 at Crosley Field . * 1956 -- The first Eurovision Song Contest is held in Lugano , Switzerland * 1961 -- American civil rights movement : Freedom Riders are arrested in Jackson, Mississippi for "disturbing the peace" after disembarking from their bus. * 1989 -- Sonia Sutcliffe , wife of the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe , is awarded ?600,000 in damages (later reduced to ?60,000 on appeal) after winning a libel action against /Private Eye /. * 2004 -- Communications in North Korea : North Korea bans mobile phones . Births * 1743 -- Jean-Paul Marat , French revolutionary (d. 1793) * 1819 -- Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom (d. 1901) * 1879 -- H. B. Reese , American inventor of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and founder of H. B. Reese Candy Co. (d. 1956) * 1899 -- Henri Michaux , French poet (d. 1984) * 1905 -- Michail Aleksandrovich Sholokhov , Russian writer, Nobel Prize laureate (d. 1984) * 1937 -- Archie Shepp , American jazz saxophonist * 1937 -- Roger Peterson , pilot who flew the plane on The Day the Music Died (d. 1959) * 1938 -- Tommy Chong , Canadian-born actor and comedian * 1940 -- Joseph Brodsky , Russian-born poet, Nobel Prize laureate (d. 1996) * 1949 -- Jim Broadbent , English actor Deaths * 1543 -- Nicolaus Copernicus , Polish astronomer (b. 1473) * 1627 -- Luis de G?ngora , Spanish poet (b. 1561) * 1887) * 1963 -- Elmore James , American blues guitarist, singer and songwriter (b. 1918) Holidays and observances o Bulgarian Education and Culture and Slavonic Literature Day (Bulgaria ) On 5/24/2011 1:01 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.npr.org/2011/05/24/136470340/cake-is-just-a-four-letter-word-dylan-turns-70 > > especially for Tad, :-) > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 24 14:52:33 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:52:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday to You In-Reply-To: <4DDBF4B9.9070407@louisiana.edu> References: <4DDBF4B9.9070407@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Oh What A Happy Day ! Believe it or not, I have here 'Hart Crane' After His Lights by Brian M. Reed, and I just opened it [page 148] and started reading: A GAIN Secondary criticism has long recognized that Crane sought to unify *The Bridge* by repeating, and occasionally varying, a number of symbols. Early criticism tended to disparage this strategy ? and in so doing echoed Adorno?s critique of Wagner. Howard Moss?s ?Disorder as Myth? (1943), for example, complains that ?*The Bridge* is constructed around an infinite series of extensions possible to one object, the Brooklyn Bridge? (33). Crane builds the poem by substituting, again and again, anything ?used as a connective in any sort of congruence between two polarities? for Brooklyn Bridge: Columbus?s voyage between Europe and North America, intimacy between two lowers, a subway ride, and so forth (33-35). For Moss, this compositional strategy is flawed because it is ultimately ?static? and ?complete in itself? (32-33). There can be no cumulative argument, no dynamic struggle, in short, no development, when a poem never moves beyond its originating symbol. In subsequent years, Hart Crane criticism has advanced analytically. M.D. Uroff?s *Hart Crane: The Patterns of His Poetry* (1974) observes that Crane?s *The Bridge* has a proclivity for ?patterns recurring with obsessive frequency,? but she does not collapse them into a single category, metaphoric extensions of Brooklyn Bridge. She distinguishes at least four groups of interchangeable symbols that, oft repeated, render Crane?s epic ?a work of unusual continuity? (6). She labels these clusters ?violation? (6), ?possession? (8), ?flight? (9), and ?stasis? (11). Michael Sharp?s ?Theme and Free Variation: The Scoring of Hart Crane?s The Bridge? (1981) notes that these repetitions can be further subdivided into particular chains of association. One can, for instance, trace modes of transport through the poem: Spanish caravels in one poem (?Ave Maria?) become trains in another (?The River?), then become Yankee clippers (?Cutty Sark?), then fighter planes (?Cape Hatteras?), and then subways (?The Tunnel?). Furthermore, Sharp argues that these chains of recurrence represent a means of achieving coherence via the musical model of ?free variation on a theme? (197). While Sharp is certainly on the right track, he does not take seriously enough the difference between the verbal and musical arts, and the consequent care and specificity required when speaking about interchange between them. In European art music, a composer who varies a theme usually progresses according to the rules of counterpoint. The relevant theme is inverted, transposed, played cancrizan (backward), and so forth. Cranean chains of association could be compared to developing themes. But there are so many of them. Indeed, half the fun of reading *The Bridge* is discerning and tracing the diversity of warp-threads woven into its woof. There is, for example, a chain of nineteenth-century U.S. authors ? Washington Irving (?Van Winkle?), Walt Whitman (?Cape Hatteras?), Emily Dickinson (?Quaker Hill?), Edgar Allan Poe (?The Tunnel?) ? also a chain of rivers ? the Ganges (?Ave Maria?), the Mississippi (?The River?), the Somme (?Cape Hatteras?), the East River (?The Tunnel?) ? and a chain of birds ? seagulls (?Proem?), more seagulls (?Harbor Dawn?), crows (?The River?), buzzards (?The Dance?), condors (?Cape Hatteras?), pigeons (?Virginia?), a whippoorwill (?Quaker Hill?), a penguin (?The Tunnel?), yet more seagulls (?Atlantis?). And, yes, appropriately, there are also an abundance of musical instruments: a harp (?Proem?), gongs (?Harbor Dawn?), a hand organ (?Van Winkle?), drums (?The Dance?), a player piano (?Cutty Sark?), trumpets (?Cape Hatteras?), guitars (Southern Cross?), a violin (?National Winter Garden?), bells (?Virginia?), more gongs (?The Tunnel?), and an organ (?Atlantis?). If these chains of association ? and there are many, many more of them in *The Bridge* ? are analogous to ?free variations on themes,? then, judged from the standpoint of musicology, Crane is attempting something genuinely foolhardy. No one listening to a piece of music could possibly follow the simultaneous development of twenty or more musical phrases. The enduring popularity of the sonata form, for example, partly stems from the fact that most audiences fail to appreciate more than two themes trotted through their paces. [?] On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > And while we're on the subject, the NY Times tells me today that on May > 24, 1883, the Brooklyn Bridge, linking Brooklyn and Manhattan, was opened to > traffic. > > > So here's to Whitman and Crane on Dylan's birthday--one good monument > deserves another. > > > Jerry > > On 5/24/2011 1:01 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > http://www.npr.org/2011/05/24/136470340/cake-is-just-a-four-letter-word-dylan-turns-70 > > especially for Tad, :-) > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu May 26 02:35:16 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 08:35:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dana Magallion Message-ID: Vispo: http://cipollinaaaaa.blogspot.com/ This is a nice discovery. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 26 12:45:10 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 11:45:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry Message-ID: Book review: 'The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry' The tremendous diversity of modern Latin American poetry is on display in a new anthology edited by Ilan Stavans that also features top-notch translations. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-latin-american-poetry-20110522,0,2971095.story ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu May 26 13:45:48 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 10:45:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dana Magallion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, Diana does interesting work. Hope to meet her in Mexico sometime. And I'm looking forward to publishing her in the future. - Jim On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Vispo: > http://cipollinaaaaa.blogspot.com/ > > This is a nice discovery. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 26 22:36:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 21:36:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF0E20.4080100@nut-n-but.net> On 5/26/2011 11:45 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Book review: 'The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry' > > > The tremendous diversity of modern Latin American poetry is on > display in a new anthology edited by Ilan Stavans that also > features top-notch translations. > . I wonder if the editor missed the diversity of modern Latin American poetry or the reviewer did a poor job of conveying what the editor did. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 09:22:20 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:22:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Leonora Carrington Message-ID: *Leonora Carrington, Surrealist, Dies at 94 * www.nytimes.com Ms. Carrington was a British-born Surrealist and onetime romantic partner of Max Ernst whose paintings depicted women and half-human beasts floating in a dreamscape of images. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 10:32:03 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:32:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help Message-ID: Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is *100 Thousand Poets for Change* but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, does anybody have an idea? Please? Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 with wonderful contributions already. Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 27 10:57:39 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:57:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just too vague for words. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] > > with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after > Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take > place in September. The title, until now was/is > *100 Thousand Poets for Change* > > but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a > [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like > to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive > enough, > does anybody have an idea? > > Please? > > Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 > > with wonderful contributions already. > Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, > > Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri May 27 11:06:21 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:06:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous > concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? > Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just > too vague for words. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] > > with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is > 100 Thousand Poets for Change > > but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, > does anybody have an idea? > > Please? > > Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 > > with wonderful contributions already. > Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, > > Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri May 27 11:06:53 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:06:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry Message-ID: <11077680.1306508814634.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:08:24 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:08:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Graham, David wrote: > "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just > be another mainstream book, some might say.... > > I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous > concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? > Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just > too vague for words. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >> >> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >> place in September. The title, until now was/is >> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >> >> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >> enough, >> does anybody have an idea? >> >> Please? >> >> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >> >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >> >> with wonderful contributions already. >> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >> >> Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:21:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:21:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - see it: *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL ROTHENBERG)* ** "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE*on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise history, start over again. Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. Best wishes, Obododimma Oha Anny Ballardini On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: > "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just > be another mainstream book, some might say.... > > I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous > concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? > Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just > too vague for words. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >> >> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >> place in September. The title, until now was/is >> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >> >> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >> enough, >> does anybody have an idea? >> >> Please? >> >> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >> >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >> >> with wonderful contributions already. >> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >> >> Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:22:31 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:22:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yup, unluckily. And let's add to it *for the worse* or was it already worst from the start? On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous > concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? > Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just > too vague for words. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >> >> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >> place in September. The title, until now was/is >> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >> >> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >> enough, >> does anybody have an idea? >> >> Please? >> >> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >> >> with wonderful contributions already. >> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >> >> Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:24:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:24:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: That would be an idea, should we co-edit it, Hal? Copywriting is seriously missed. >From the L.A. Times On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Graham, David wrote: > >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just >> be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>> enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri May 27 11:29:07 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDEA99F3896BBE-1C5C-25434@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Anny, I read through the description and I hate to say that I still do not understand the concept! It's probably my stupidity but I don't understand. I think, if I did, I would be better able to submit work and come up with title suggestions but I just cannot wrap my mind around this. I saw the posts on Facebook and again it is probably my own ignorance? Could you sum up the goals and the general idea of this project? Thanks-- Millicent Help me get to 300 likes by June 1st. Click here to "like" my FB page. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:24 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help That would be an idea, should we co-edit it, Hal? Copywriting is seriously missed. >From the L.A. Times On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Graham, David wrote: "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just too vague for words. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is 100 Thousand Poets for Change but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, does anybody have an idea? Please? Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 with wonderful contributions already. Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri May 27 11:31:28 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:31:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <7A4934BA-B02A-40E1-B18E-AA19B8139223@ripon.edu> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff about the messianic and the end of time. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - see it: > > (Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL ROTHENBERG) > > "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." > ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: A Critical Introduction, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) > > Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and political change" titled 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. > > Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions for the 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on Fieralingue's Poets? Corner. Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in On the Concept of History (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise history, start over again. > > > > Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. > > > > Best wishes, > Obododimma Oha > Anny Ballardini > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: > "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... > > I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >> >> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is >> 100 Thousand Poets for Change >> >> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, >> does anybody have an idea? >> >> Please? >> >> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >> >> with wonderful contributions already. >> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >> >> Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:50:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:50:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <8CDEA99F3896BBE-1C5C-25434@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> <8CDEA99F3896BBE-1C5C-25434@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Millicent, your voice is true, that is why I am answering. I highlighted what you should read to understand the idea: "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now [Messianic] from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) Practically, change in this context means to be responsible. Nothing new under this same sun [or rain for that reason here in Bozen now] Then we continue by underlining what has touched us on an international scale, tornadoes, earthquakes, cracking economies. We add that we are looking for: significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. In a few words we are hoping in ideas that once created will be _ just BE _ in order to look forward to a change seen the disastrous events happening all around. [I have recently been involved in what I can at best define : a disaster]. I [and Obododimma can complete, add or change what I am saying] hope to find Thoughts that can give a meaning to all what I have been living until now. I am at a loss. I do not want you to speak up for me, what has been sent up to now are the many voices of different people, they are a choir. The simple idea that we have to sit down for a moment to look for a solution and to outline something better or to note down what just does not work, that - I have thought - is worth an Anthology. Please let me know if this answers your question, Anny On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > Anny, > > I read through the description and I hate to say that I still do not > understand the concept! > > It's probably my stupidity but I don't understand. I think, if I did, I > would be better able to submit work and come up with title suggestions but I > just cannot wrap my mind around this. I saw the posts on Facebook and again > it is probably my own ignorance? Could you sum up the goals and the general > idea of this project? > > Thanks-- > > Millicent > > > Help me get to 300 likes by June 1st. Click here > to > "like" my FB page. Thanks! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:24 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help > > That would be an idea, should we co-edit it, Hal? > > Copywriting is seriously missed. > From the L.A. Times > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Graham, David wrote: >> >>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>> >>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>> too vague for words. >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>> >>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>> >>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>>> enough, >>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>> >>>> Please? >>>> >>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>> >>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>> >>>> Anny >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 11:53:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:53:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <7A4934BA-B02A-40E1-B18E-AA19B8139223@ripon.edu> References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> <7A4934BA-B02A-40E1-B18E-AA19B8139223@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Maybe Michael is looking for social change, at least the way I know Rothenberg. Obododimma, might or might not see 'just social change.' I am looking for personal change in the conviction that it will naturally lead to a broader way of thinking and of seeing the way we will have to shape our days within a community. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Graham, David wrote: > I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the > concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff > about the messianic and the end of time. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is our > call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - see > it: > > *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL > ROTHENBERG)* > > > ** > > "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, > but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben > employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history > is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem > humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as > though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What > is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically > it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to > understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must > first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now > from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l > had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the > messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time > of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one > that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote > future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and > in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a > standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our > gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." > > ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A > Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) > > > > Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of > the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing > public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote > serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE > * on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across > North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United > States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one > cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative > response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social > relations are constructed. > > > Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael > Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions > for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner > . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and > photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple > and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our > Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by > Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective > interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. > Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like > the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the > audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device > was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and > we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our > politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we > can change, revise history, start over again. > > > Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, > while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All > submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and > obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR > CHANGE" in the Subject line. > > > > Best wishes, > Obododimma Oha > Anny Ballardini > > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < > GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: > >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just >> be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>> enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 27 12:09:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:09:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?VmFsw6lyeeKAmXMgYXBob3Jpc21z?= Message-ID: <8CDEA9FA2E4AC46-1DB8-2BC2C@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> http://www.jamesgeary.com/blog/aphorisms-by-paul-valery/ ?Nothing gives more boldness to the pen than the feeling that one can defer ad infinitum the time of recasting a phrase in its final form,? he wrote. These notebooks contain Val?ry?s best aphorisms on mathematics, science, history, morality and the art of poetry and thinking. Val?ry shared Johann Wolfgang von Goethe?s fascination with science, and like Goethe devoted much of his aphoristic writing to explorations of art and poetry, to wit... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri May 27 12:10:07 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help Message-ID: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> 100 Thousand Poets in Community A Gathering of Poets Time for a Change Through Poetry Give Poetry a Chance Consecutive Moments of Now Mindful Poets Posts Living in the Present The Be Here Now Poets Poets in the Now Poets Gathering Moment by Moment A Shift in the Universe -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff about the messianic and the end of time. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - see it: (Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL ROTHENBERG) "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: A Critical Introduction, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and political change" titled 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions for the 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on Fieralingue's Poets? Corner. Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in On the Concept of History (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise history, start over again. Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. Best wishes, Obododimma Oha Anny Ballardini On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just too vague for words. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is 100 Thousand Poets for Change but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, does anybody have an idea? Please? Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 with wonderful contributions already. Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:19:07 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:19:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yes We Kant - Jim On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > 100Thousand Poets in Community > > A Gathering of Poets > > Time for a Change Through Poetry > > Give Poetry a Chance > > Consecutive Moments of Now > > Mindful Poets > > Posts Living in the Present > > The Be Here Now Poets > > Poets in the Now > > Poets Gathering Moment by Moment > > A Shift in the Universe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham, David > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > > I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the > concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff > about the messianic and the end of time. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is > our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - > see it: > > *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL > ROTHENBERG)* > > ** > "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, > but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben > employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history > is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem > humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as > though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What > is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically > it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to > understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must > first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now > from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l > had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the > messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time > of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one > that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote > future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and > in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a > standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our > gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." > ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A > Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) > > Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of > the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing > public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote > serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE > * on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across > North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United > States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one > cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative > response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social > relations are constructed. > > Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael > Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions > for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner > . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and > photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple > and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our > Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by > Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective > interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. > Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like > the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the > audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device > was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and > we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our > politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we > can change, revise history, start over again. > > Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG > format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in > Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors > anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with > "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. > > Best wishes, > Obododimma Oha > Anny Ballardini > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < > GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: > >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>> enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:20:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:20:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Our Volcano Millicent! The three highlighted could easily be, thank You! On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > 100Thousand Poets in Community > > A Gathering of Poets > > Time for a Change Through Poetry > > Give Poetry a Chance > > Consecutive Moments of Now [a poem by itself] > > Mindful Poets > > Posts Living in the Present > > The Be Here Now Poets > > Poets in the Now > > Poets Gathering Moment by Moment > > A Shift in the Universe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham, David > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > > I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the > concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff > about the messianic and the end of time. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is > our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - > see it: > > *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL > ROTHENBERG)* > > ** > "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, > but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben > employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history > is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem > humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as > though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What > is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically > it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to > understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must > first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now > from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l > had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the > messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time > of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one > that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote > future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and > in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a > standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our > gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." > ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A > Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) > > Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of > the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing > public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote > serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE > * on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across > North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United > States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one > cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative > response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social > relations are constructed. > > Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael > Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions > for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner > . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and > photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple > and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our > Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by > Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective > interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. > Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like > the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the > audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device > was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and > we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our > politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we > can change, revise history, start over again. > > Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG > format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in > Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors > anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with > "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. > > Best wishes, > Obododimma Oha > Anny Ballardini > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < > GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: > >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>> enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:21:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:21:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: :-) Nah, we Schopenhauer. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Yes We Kant > > - Jim > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > >> 100Thousand Poets in Community >> >> A Gathering of Poets >> >> Time for a Change Through Poetry >> >> Give Poetry a Chance >> >> Consecutive Moments of Now >> >> Mindful Poets >> >> Posts Living in the Present >> >> The Be Here Now Poets >> >> Poets in the Now >> >> Poets Gathering Moment by Moment >> >> A Shift in the Universe >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Graham, David >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >> >> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the >> concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff >> about the messianic and the end of time. >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is >> our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - >> see it: >> >> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >> ROTHENBERG)* >> >> ** >> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history >> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem >> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as >> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What >> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically >> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must >> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now >> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l >> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time >> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one >> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and >> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our >> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >> >> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing >> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote >> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United >> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one >> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >> relations are constructed. >> >> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions >> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner >> . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple >> and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our >> Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by >> Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective >> interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. >> Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like >> the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the >> audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device >> was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and >> we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our >> politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we >> can change, revise history, start over again. >> >> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in >> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >> >> Best wishes, >> Obododimma Oha >> Anny Ballardini >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < >> GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: >> >>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>> >>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>> too vague for words. >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>> >>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>> >>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>>> enough, >>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>> >>>> Please? >>>> >>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>> >>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>> >>>> Anny >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 27 12:25:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:25:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEAA1E3B773FC-1DB8-2C096@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Pro Mundi Poetica -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 12:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help 100 Thousand Poets in Community A Gathering of Poets Time for a Change Through Poetry Give Poetry a Chance Consecutive Moments of Now Mindful Poets Posts Living in the Present The Be Here Now Poets Poets in the Now Poets Gathering Moment by Moment A Shift in the Universe -----Original Message----- From: Graham, David To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff about the messianic and the end of time. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - see it: (Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL ROTHENBERG) "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: A Critical Introduction, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and political change" titled 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions for the 100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE on Fieralingue's Poets? Corner. Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in On the Concept of History (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise history, start over again. Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. Best wishes, Obododimma Oha Anny Ballardini On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just too vague for words. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is 100 Thousand Poets for Change but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, does anybody have an idea? Please? Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 with wonderful contributions already. Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:29:13 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:29:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <8CDEAA1E3B773FC-1DB8-2C096@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> <8CDEAA1E3B773FC-1DB8-2C096@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: It could be, thanks. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:25 PM, wrote: > Pro Mundi Poetica > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Millicent Borges Accardi > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 12:10 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > > 100Thousand Poets in Community > > A Gathering of Poets > > Time for a Change Through Poetry > > Give Poetry a Chance > > Consecutive Moments of Now > > Mindful Poets > > Posts Living in the Present > > The Be Here Now Poets > > Poets in the Now > > Poets Gathering Moment by Moment > > A Shift in the Universe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham, David > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > > I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the > concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff > about the messianic and the end of time. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > wrote: > > I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is > our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - > see it: > > *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL > ROTHENBERG)* > > ** > "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, > but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben > employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history > is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem > humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as > though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What > is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically > it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to > understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must > first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now > from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l > had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the > messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time > of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one > that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote > future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and > in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a > standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our > gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." > ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A > Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) > > Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of > the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing > public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote > serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE > * on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across > North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United > States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one > cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative > response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social > relations are constructed. > > Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael > Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions > for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner > . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and > photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple > and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our > Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by > Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective > interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. > Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like > the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the > audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device > was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and > we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our > politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we > can change, revise history, start over again. > > Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG > format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in > Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors > anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with > "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. > > Best wishes, > Obododimma Oha > Anny Ballardini > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < > GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: > >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >> too vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>> enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:29:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:29:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I thought we Play-doh. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > :-) > Nah, we Schopenhauer. > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 PM, James Cervantes < > cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes We Kant >> >> - Jim >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >> >>> 100Thousand Poets in Community >>> >>> A Gathering of Poets >>> >>> Time for a Change Through Poetry >>> >>> Give Poetry a Chance >>> >>> Consecutive Moments of Now >>> >>> Mindful Poets >>> >>> Posts Living in the Present >>> >>> The Be Here Now Poets >>> >>> Poets in the Now >>> >>> Poets Gathering Moment by Moment >>> >>> A Shift in the Universe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Graham, David >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >>> >>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the >>> concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff >>> about the messianic and the end of time. >>> >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here >>> is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - >>> see it: >>> >>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>> ROTHENBERG)* >>> >>> ** >>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history >>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem >>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as >>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What >>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically >>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must >>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now >>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l >>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time >>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one >>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and >>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our >>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>> >>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing >>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote >>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United >>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one >>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >>> relations are constructed. >>> >>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions >>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner >>> . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >>> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple >>> and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our >>> Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by >>> Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective >>> interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. >>> Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like >>> the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the >>> audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device >>> was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and >>> we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our >>> politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we >>> can change, revise history, start over again. >>> >>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in >>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Obododimma Oha >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < >>> GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>> >>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>> =================== >>>> David Graham >>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>> too vague for words. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>> --David Shields >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>> >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>> >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>> >>>> *Mainly Black >>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>> ;* >>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>> ; * >>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>> ; * >>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>> ;* >>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>> >>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>> after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will >>>>> take place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>> >>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like >>>>> a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would >>>>> like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>> sensitive enough, >>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>> >>>>> Please? >>>>> >>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>> >>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Anny >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>> >>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>> >>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>> >>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>>> star! >>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>> >>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>> Giovenale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri May 27 12:31:53 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:31:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> <7A4934BA-B02A-40E1-B18E-AA19B8139223@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DDFD1F9.4090704@louisiana.edu> I've told you several times, Anny, that I've admired your editorial efforts, and especially celebrate your generosity. You've included my work in several of your lovely anthologies whose most important organizational principle was your own instinct for associative inclusiveness. So you won't think I'm being just wrong-headed or small in agreeing with others that this particular anthology is seriously mis-, under, or over-defined. It sets itself up with the Agamben quotation, which mostly baffles me. It shifts then (I think it's a shift, though it's set up as a logical transition) to place itself "in the context of this split between 'the end of time' and 'the time of the end'"; its reference to Benjamin doesn't help me understand how these theoretical pointers might help to position the works you want to include. There seem to be some ideological hobbyhorses working below the surface of this. I generally prefer gifted ambiguity to dumbed-down literalness, but Anny, the description seems to make large claims on projected content without really opening up about what it wants. If "change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed" is the real issue (and this certainly would resonate with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process?), then you could just let the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) and, instead of saying what you don't want (i.e., anything _equal to or less than_ "the way social relations are constructed") you could frame that ideological position not in terms of what feels, to me, like Agamben's mystification, but in terms of some more substantial (or graspable) politics. If I'm completely misreading your call for submissions, I apologize, Anny, but I don't think I'm alone here. Why don't you just do a little back-channeling and see if you can clarify your aspirations? If people understand those, they'll be more likely to send you fabulous stuff. Yours, Jerry On 5/27/2011 10:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Maybe Michael is looking for social change, at least the way I know > Rothenberg. Obododimma, might or might not see 'just social change.' I > am looking for personal change in the conviction that it will > naturally lead to a broader way of thinking and of seeing the way we > will have to shape our days within a community. > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Graham, David > wrote: > > I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if > that's the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot > unpack all that stuff about the messianic and the end of time. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" > > wrote: > >> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, >> here is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and >> finally Michael - see it: >> >> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with >> MICHAEL ROTHENBERG)* >> >> >> ** >> >> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of >> this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both >> Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For >> them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for >> the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but >> instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as >> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and >> gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term >> messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the >> apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as >> it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish >> messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a >> time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If >> l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say >> that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of >> time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time >> corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its >> decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead >> finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this >> life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to >> return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >> >> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: >> /A Critical Introduction/, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >> >> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and >> "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation >> for the global writing public to participate in "a >> demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and >> political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on 24 >> September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across >> North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the >> United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico >> and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a >> highly significant creative response to change as something more >> than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. >> >> >> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic >> compositions for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on >> Fieralingue's *Poets? Corner >> . * Visual >> artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond >> the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? >> Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG >> (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in /On the Concept >> of History/ (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a >> mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis >> Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather >> like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, >> when the audience is waiting to find out if the >> time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel >> that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of >> a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to >> make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can >> change, revise history, start over again. >> >> >> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in >> JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, >> are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the >> editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com >> and obodooha at gmail.com >> by September 1, 2011 with "100 >> THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >> >> Best wishes, >> Obododimma Oha >> Anny Ballardini >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David > > wrote: >> >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else >> it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this >> anthology. >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" >> > wrote: >> >>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>> too vague for words. >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> /Mainly Black >>> , >>> //Obras P?blicas >>> ; >>> //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;/ >>> /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; >>> //Tango Bouquet >>> ; >>> //Theory of Harmony >>> ; >>> / >>> /Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; >>> //Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; >>> //The Sonnet Project >>> ; >>> / >>> /G(e)nome >>> ; >>> //Winter Journey >>> ; ////Eclipse >>> ; ////The >>> Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;/ >>> /Transparencies & Projections >>> / >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>> >>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology >>> on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call >>> for a great happening that will take place in September. >>> The title, until now was/is >>> /100 Thousand Poets for Change/ >>> >>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that >>> it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious >>> order/movement. We therefore would like to change the >>> title right now but cannot come up with anything >>> sensitive enough, >>> does anybody have an idea? >>> >>> Please? >>> >>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>> >>> >>> with wonderful contributions already. >>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>> >>> Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give >>> birth to a dancing star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 27 13:42:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:42:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin AmericanPoetry In-Reply-To: <11077680.1306508814634.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11077680.1306508814634.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DDFE29D.4060708@nut-n-but.net> On 5/27/2011 10:06 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > This is a case of "don't believe everything you read" and a > vindication of the critic's admission that he doesn't know much about > the field beyond what's in this anthology. It's not very good. I say > this despite one of my translations being included in it. One could > play the usual game of who should be in who should be out, but it's > beyond that:. . Needless to say, my major problem with what was reported to be in it was the absence of references to a whole kind of major poetry, concrete poetry. Other kinds of poetry, not just other poets, were left out., if the reviewer's summary is accurate. An anthology of 20th Century Latin American Poetry leaving out just concrete poetry would be like an anthology of 20th Century American leaving out . . . I mean, would be like most anthologies of 20th Century American poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 27 13:45:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:45:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA 3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DDFE32C.3040701@nut-n-but.net> On 5/27/2011 10:08 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." Dang, you beat me to it, Hal. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 27 13:52:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:52:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <0FDCD581-7DA 3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu><8CDEA99F3896BBE-1C5C-25434@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DDFE4F0.4090705@nut-n-but.net> How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we don't have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would be to give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:57:31 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:57:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <4DDFE4F0.4090705@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEA99F3896BBE-1C5C-25434@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> <4DDFE4F0.4090705@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Now, you just stop that, B-b-bob. If there's anything I can't stand, it's your agreeing with me. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we don't > have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would be to > give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Fri May 27 13:01:49 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:01:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new Whale Sound audio chapbook - Fishwife by Jennifer Jean In-Reply-To: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> References: , , <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Announcing the new Whale Sound Audio Chapbook: 'Fishwife' by Jennifer Jean, with music by Sarah Eide and art by Jinju Fong - http://bit.ly/kpiNap. Published as usual in multiple formats - web-based text & audio, PDF, e-book, CD & print edition - some of which are free. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Forever Will End on Thursday From: GrahamD at ripon.edu Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:06:21 -0500 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just be another mainstream book, some might say.... I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. ===================David GrahamGrahamd at ripon.edu Home page:http://web.me.com/drjazz==================== On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculousconcept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Justtoo vague for words. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take place in September. The title, until now was/is 100 Thousand Poets for Change but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive enough, does anybody have an idea? Please? Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 with wonderful contributions already. Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri May 27 13:51:52 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:51:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: <4DDFD1F9.4090704@louisiana.edu> References: <0FDCD581-7DA3-4C33-A458-DDCE1BB3F915@ripon.edu> <7A4934BA-B02A-40E1-B18E-AA19B8139223@ripon.edu> <4DDFD1F9.4090704@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Jerry for your kindest way of saying that nobody had a clue of what we were talking about, I will b/c you and we can see what we have to do/write/ *maybe to dream* ? I like the way you talk of letting the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) Care, Anny On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I've told you several times, Anny, that I've admired your editorial > efforts, and especially celebrate your generosity. You've included my work > in several of your lovely anthologies whose most important organizational > principle was your own instinct for associative inclusiveness. So you > won't think I'm being just wrong-headed or smou all in agreeing with others > that this particular anthology is seriously mis-, under, or over-defined. It > sets itself up with the Agamben quotation, which mostly baffles me. It > shifts then (I think it's a shift, though it's set up as a logical > transition) to place itself "in the context of this split between 'the end > of time' and 'the time of the end'"; its reference to Benjamin doesn't > help me understand how these theoretical pointers might help to position the > works you want to include. There seem to be some ideological hobbyhorses > working below the surface of this. I generally prefer gifted ambiguity to > dumbed-down literalness, but Anny, the description seems to make large > claims on projected content without really opening up about what it wants. > If "change as something more than an adjustment to the way social > relations are constructed" is the real issue (and this certainly would > resonate with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process?), then > you could just let the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) and, instead of > saying what you don't want (i.e., anything _equal to or less than_ "the way > social relations are constructed") you could frame that ideological position > not in terms of what feels, to me, like Agamben's mystification, but in > terms of some more substantial (or graspable) politics. > > If I'm completely misreading your call for submissions, I apologize, Anny, > but I don't think I'm alone here. Why don't you just do a little > back-channeling and see if you can clarify your aspirations? If people > understand those, they'll be more likely to send you fabulous stuff. > > Yours, > > Jerry > > > On 5/27/2011 10:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Maybe Michael is looking for social change, at least the way I know > Rothenberg. Obododimma, might or might not see 'just social change.' I am > looking for personal change in the conviction that it will naturally lead to > a broader way of thinking and of seeing the way we will have to shape our > days within a community. > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Graham, David wrote: > >> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the >> concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that stuff >> about the messianic and the end of time. >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is >> our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - >> see it: >> >> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >> ROTHENBERG)* >> >> >> ** >> >> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history >> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem >> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as >> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What >> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically >> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must >> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now >> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l >> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time >> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one >> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and >> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our >> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >> >> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >> >> >> >> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing >> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote >> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United >> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one >> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >> relations are constructed. >> >> >> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions >> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner >> . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple >> and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our >> Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by >> Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective >> interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. >> Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like >> the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the >> audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device >> was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and >> we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our >> politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we >> can change, revise history, start over again. >> >> >> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in >> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >> >> >> >> Best wishes, >> Obododimma Oha >> Anny Ballardini >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: >> >>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>> >>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>> too vague for words. >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> *Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> *G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>> >>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >>>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take >>>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>> >>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >>>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like >>>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >>>> enough, >>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>> >>>> Please? >>>> >>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>> >>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>> >>>> Anny >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 27 14:14:27 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:14:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help In-Reply-To: References: <8CDEA9FADD3A8FE-1C5C-25EC5@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Lego my leg. - Jim On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I thought we Play-doh. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> :-) >> Nah, we Schopenhauer. >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 PM, James Cervantes < >> cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yes We Kant >>> >>> - Jim >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi >> > wrote: >>> >>>> 100Thousand Poets in Community >>>> >>>> A Gathering of Poets >>>> >>>> Time for a Change Through Poetry >>>> >>>> Give Poetry a Chance >>>> >>>> Consecutive Moments of Now >>>> >>>> Mindful Poets >>>> >>>> Posts Living in the Present >>>> >>>> The Be Here Now Poets >>>> >>>> Poets in the Now >>>> >>>> Poets Gathering Moment by Moment >>>> >>>> A Shift in the Universe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Graham, David >>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am >>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >>>> >>>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's >>>> the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that >>>> stuff about the messianic and the end of time. >>>> >>>> =================== >>>> David Graham >>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here >>>> is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - >>>> see it: >>>> >>>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>>> ROTHENBERG)* >>>> >>>> ** >>>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >>>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >>>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history >>>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem >>>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as >>>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What >>>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically >>>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must >>>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now >>>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l >>>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >>>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time >>>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one >>>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and >>>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our >>>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>>> >>>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >>>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing >>>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote >>>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United >>>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one >>>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >>>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >>>> relations are constructed. >>>> >>>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions >>>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? >>>> Corner . * Visual >>>> artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be >>>> submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous >>>> statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time >>>> requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in >>>> *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a >>>> mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond >>>> continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic >>>> pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting >>>> to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? >>>> We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a >>>> Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make >>>> students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise >>>> history, start over again. >>>> >>>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in >>>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> Obododimma Oha >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < >>>> GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>>> >>>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>>> =================== >>>>> David Graham >>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>> >>>>> Home page: >>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>> ==================== >>>>> >>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>>> too vague for words. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>> --David Shields >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>> >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>> >>>>> *Mainly Black >>>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>>> ; * >>>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>>> ; * >>>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>>> >>>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>>> after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will >>>>>> take place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>>> >>>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like >>>>>> a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would >>>>>> like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>>> sensitive enough, >>>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> Please? >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>>> >>>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Anny >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>> >>>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>>>>> dancing star! >>>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>>> >>>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>>> Giovenale >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >>> >>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>> >>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 27 14:43:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:43:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Letters to a Young Poet Message-ID: <8CDEAB513CD2BCD-770-32B56@webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com> New Letters to a Young Poet Joan Margarit Translated and with an Afterword by Christopher Maurer http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/N/bo10380378.html University of Chicago Press Distributed for Swan Isle Press 120 pages | ? 2010 In these intimate pages, award-winning Catalan poet Joan Margarit offers a passionate defense of poetry and of the intelligible poem?the well-made text that can provide refuge, wisdom, and consolation. Inspired by Rilke's classic Letters to a Young Poet, this slender volume explores poetry as vocation, obsession, and partnership between writer and reader, a "road toward inner growth." For Margarit, poetry promises "a clarity that allows us mysteriously to live without the need to forget." This is essential reading for poets young and old, writers, and readers seeking insights into the creative process and "the way both poet and reader can find their own way to face solitude." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 27 20:30:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:30:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] TMI Message-ID: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Fri May 27 21:04:33 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:04:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] TMI In-Reply-To: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I especially liked: "Bill Knott should be beaten with a flail." ?Tomaz Salamun, Snow, 1973 On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:30 PM, wrote: > http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri May 27 22:23:09 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron Message-ID: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brainboltpoet at gmail.com Fri May 27 22:39:30 2011 From: brainboltpoet at gmail.com (Beverly Rainbolt) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:39:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <29D31EFE-CE49-41DC-BB99-55BBEC1D4C02@gmail.com> There used to be a band that played in New Orleans named Girl Scout Heron, which I thought was clever. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2011, at 9:23 PM, David Graham wrote: > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sat May 28 00:55:19 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd survived. Such a loss. Makes me sad. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 28 00:58:37 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 04:58:37 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: "Piss Christ" destroyed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Serrano is quoted as saying that his Christian artworks intend to upbraid the commercialization of Christian iconography and religious practice. In particular, Serrano really disapproves of television evangelists hawking their tapes and geegaws. I am convinced now, more than ever, that my original intuitions and views on this artwork, and the others, was right. By immersing a Crucifix into a volume of his own urine, Serrano, personally, sought to bear witness to the deepest problem of Jesus' mission. Those who believe, as do the Christians who roughed up the guards, and destroyed the work, that sacrilege was Serrano's mission miss his point entirely. I cannot say what Nietzsche would opine (But it might have caused him to write another treatise about the epigram, "God is Dead.") had he the opportunity to view the "Piss Christ" and the extreme reaction to it by those who are, mistakenly, and, expectedly, offended, and by those, the anti-Christian ACLU type Radical Liberals who are confirmed in their view that Serrano is a hero for debunking the fraud of Jesus, and with Robbespierre, Stalin and Che (and weird guys/gals on the Boulder Mall who wore Che t-shirts to the poetry readings) or, come to think of it, Bill Ayers, Bernadhine Dorhn (busy with the work of the destruction of the state of Israel and, of course, what's left of Christendom in the American school and legal system), or George Bernard Shaw and Bertrand Russell, who might laugh with glee as they toasted Serrano, a fellow genius, for, finally, debunking Chrisitianity with such brilliant panache. But, unfortunately for them, Serrano is a serious man, like his fellow artist and Christian, Salvador Dali, and the writer, Agatha Christie, and knows that the Lord will not be mocked. I have no doubt that Jesus, himself, would praise Serrano, and would remind the artist that he, Jesus, did not come among men to affirm their narrow minded predispositions, especiallly in matters of the interpretation of his teachings. Jesus might have even come to Serrano in his artistic reveries and provided some inspirited concepts to enact. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/18/andres-serrano-piss-christ-destroyed-christian-protesters http://www.speroforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7153 -- Shared using Google Toolbar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 28 01:19:12 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: > I have no doubt that Jesus . . . ================================== "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat May 28 02:41:16 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:41:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed In-Reply-To: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> References: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I would like to add that the pictures are indeed beautiful, as someone else has already commented. On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > > On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: > > I have no doubt that Jesus . . . > > > ================================== > > "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 28 05:21:07 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:21:07 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed In-Reply-To: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> References: , , <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my prose, except for Christ. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: I have no doubt that Jesus . . . ================================== "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat May 28 05:42:30 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:42:30 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <648729412-1306575751-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1015686138-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> A damn shame. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &Views Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 07:20:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 06:20:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of his poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views aren't mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. --Bob From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Sat May 28 09:11:38 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:11:38 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu>, <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Me, too,Millicent... Sheo;a To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu From: millb at aol.com Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd survived. Such a loss. Makes me sad. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Sat May 28 09:40:48 2011 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:40:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford In-Reply-To: References: <17C4750A-3ED6-4745-900E-14C5FAE67340@ripon.edu> Message-ID: dear all-- i have finally gotten around to reading this article and i'd like to say that jim finnegan is one of the folks who made my two years in connecticut wonderful for me poetically. through him i met some wonderful poets and had many evenings talking and thinking about poems. connie On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I wish to congratulate James Finnegan officially. Simply deserved. > With my best, Anny > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:53 PM, James Cervantes > wrote: >> >> Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. ?Congratulations, Mr. >> Finnegan. >> - Jim >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>> Uh, oh. ?I smell a power grab. . . . ?First West Hartford, next it'll be >>> Parkville & Newington Junction. ?Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and >>> Unionville will fall. . . . ? Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. ? Is there >>> nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? >>> >>> Congratulations, Jim! >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: >>> >>> > >>> > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Connie Voisine Associate Professor of English New Mexico State University cvoisine at nmsu.edu 575-646-2027 From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat May 28 10:34:10 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:34:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 6:11 AM, sheila black wrote: > Me, too,Millicent... > > Sheo;a > > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: millb at aol.com > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd survived. > Such a loss. > > Makes me sad. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views < > new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu> > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Sat May 28 10:58:47 2011 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:58:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? Sent from my iPad On May 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! > > I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of his poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views aren't mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 28 11:16:56 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:16:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed In-Reply-To: References: , , <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <898512F8-D7CC-487B-A644-70F8A8AD6F8C@ripon.edu> I have no cold water to throw at any honest seeker, but I do get itchy when told what Jesus thinks--unless it's Jesus Himself reporting. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 28, 2011, at 4:21 AM, R Dillon wrote: > I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my prose, except for Christ. > > From: grahamd at ripon.edu > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 > To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > > > > > > On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: > > I have no doubt that Jesus . . . > > ================================== > > "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat May 28 11:38:47 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 15:38:47 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com>, <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net>, <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He was published by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round the Grolier. The one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused some alarm, depending upon the day, was his streetness. His white Levis, white shirt, were grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by life, but kept coming back. That was then and look at him now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 13:38:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:38:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com>, <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net>, <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 10:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: > I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He > was published by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round > the Grolier. The one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused > some alarm, depending upon the day, was his streetness. His > white Levis, white shirt, were grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by > life, but kept coming back. That was then and look at him now. . I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has. How'd he manage that? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to deal with than mine.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 28 12:42:48 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:42:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir Message-ID: Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's poetry. Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. I wasn't aware of Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound to me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering to mention what's wrong with them. Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, without further comment. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat May 28 12:43:45 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:43:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> <4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Easy for you to say, B-bob, but some of us mediocrities just don't cotton to your bait. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/28/2011 10:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: > > I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He was published > by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round the Grolier. The > one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused some alarm, depending > upon the day, was his streetness. His white Levis, white shirt, were > grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by life, but kept coming back. That was > then and look at him now. > > . > I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has. How'd he manage > that? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! > > (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to deal > with than mine.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 13:54:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:54:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com><4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net><7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC 6E121A7D@gmail.com><4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE136E8.2040906@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 11:43 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Easy for you to say, B-bob, but some of us mediocrities > just don't cotton to your bait. > . I thought that's what I said, Hal. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 13:57:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:57:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com><4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DE1378C.9000807@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 9:58 AM, Tad wrote: > Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? . Not at all, Tad. Grinds don't realize but there are ways to learn things indirectly. Not that I haven't read all that many people I have opinions of. If you want to criticize me, you need specifics. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 13:01:41 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com>, <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net>, <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> <4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <539176.3769.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as Knott's, we'd have heard about you.? Instead, we only hear from you. Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has.? How'd he manage that?? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to deal with than mine.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 13:05:34 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <237602.79736.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Bob's?? "Thus Spake the Broken Record..."? So many pronouncements to make, no time to get informed. Amy ________________________________ From: Tad Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? On May 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Really strange.? I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without having seen much of his work.? But the hyperWilshberians don't like his work.? What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! > > I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of his poems can't do it.? The ones I read don't make sense.? His views aren't mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 13:07:09 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu> <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <666132.40536.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sad news, too soon... ________________________________ From: carol dorf I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. -----Original Message----- >From: David Graham > > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 13:18:56 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <210145.82168.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I would ask, "What does this proclamation even mean?"? But I already know:? And the Zombies from yore rose up and spread their news of Wilshladiddly-egos all about their litter box, managing to strew some choice bits to the screens of New Poetry readers everywhere!? Get your squeegees ready, folks... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman Really strange.? I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without having seen much of his work.? But the hyperWilshberians don't like his work.? What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 28 13:29:14 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:29:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <210145.82168.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> <210145.82168.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3@ripon.edu> No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . Here's one I like a lot. `Quote Unquote' Who wrote that we use our children to forget the size of our parents, or is that really a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget to write it, does that mean that someone will ? But what if someone forgets to write the words that bring me here, that let me be born? Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, your quotemarks would just hang there in the air like wings without a bird. --Bill Knott. Asheville Poetry Review. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat May 28 13:36:58 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:36:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kleinzahler does seem to draw that kind of blind reverence (and, for that matter, equally blind hostility). c On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:42 AM, David Graham wrote: > > Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's > poetry. ?Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert > Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of > current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." > One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only > excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. ?I wasn't aware of > Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. ?He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound to > me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering to > mention what's wrong with them. ?Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, without > further comment. > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From almaginnes at aol.com Sat May 28 13:32:23 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron In-Reply-To: <666132.40536.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D@ripon.edu><8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> <666132.40536.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDEB7456C50A72-678-2A893@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com> A poem from David Rigsbee about Gil Scott Heron. This can be found in David's new and selected poems The Red Tower. Gil?s Sentence ?Gil Scott-Heron to Be Sentenced? ?NY Times, July 9, 2006 ?I find that rhetoric does my thinking for me,? she said, turning the page, moving on, having out-Plathed Plath, including the bitchy conjurations of voice that threatened to make all a trick and fostered ill will. Next up, me. I read my serious, inadequate verse, remembering all the while the assassinating queries of my undergraduate workshops: ?What is the function of the ego in this poem?? ?What does the third person mediate? Or is it really you?? So often the poem came down to you, and after my soft-voiced rendition, silence followed suit, a reset button before the class critic trained an interrogating eye on one offending line. Elliott Coleman, too aged and amiable to rein in the revolutionary spirits of the seminar pretended a real point of craft was at issue and let the sans-coulottes have their way. ?It?s sentimental,? said one. ?The subject is unstable,? said another. I had no answer to these indictments and sat silently, a you, while the rest of the eyes wobbled back and forth as if not quite believing their luck in having stumbled on a massacre. Then a large black man rose, I mean actually stood up and in doing so tipped over his unlocked briefcase spilling old cups, record albums, a copy of his recent (published) novel and some spoons. Scanning the table, he who had been silent all semester debuted a serrated baritone that wondered about the merit of intention, something he thought neglected (?Intention is the moon I follow,? I seem to remember his saying, though the verbatim trips here). He was risen to that defense when justice was poetic and of course snubbed me later when I tried to ingratiate myself with a little joke in our apartment elevator. That other was about language: that was all. But this was the weekend. He was in his other world with his band, his other means. Four or five menacing afros with shades followed him silently up to a different view of that white moon out in the alley, beyond my place, beyond where I got off. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 1:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron Sad news, too soon... From: carol dorf I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 14:12:55 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:12:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir Message-ID: <21510210.1306606376408.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality in the original. The problem is to avoid anachronism, which means you have to know what your current informal usages mean. The examples given for the most part sound suspiciously like Mehrotra doesn't, which makes sense, since he doesn't speak American dialect. What could possibly have corresponded in 15th century India to the extremely specific "dreadlocked rasta?" But his English dialect usages seem pretty suspect, as well, tho he certainly speaks it: "Faber poets?" There's a clue as to intention in his use of epigraphs: "There are epigraphs from Marcus Aurelius, Leadbelly, Gerard Manley Hopkins, Richard Hugo and Tom Paulin, among others." I've never heard of a translator supplying epigraphs foreign to the original. It's a way, it would seem to me, of claiming the poem as one's own. And I suspect that's what's happening here--these are probably versions rather than translations. This is of course sight unseen and with no Hindi on my part. A far more egregious example of a "translator" (and in this case it has to be in scare quotes) claiming the original is Daniel Ladinsky's Hafiz. Murat Nemet-Nejat among many others has commented. http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/H/HafizLadinsk/index.htm. Ladinsky's translations, so-presented unblushingly by his publisher, don't follow from any known erses of Hafiz--Ladinsky claims that Hafiz dictated them to him in English. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: May 28, 2011 1:36 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > >Kleinzahler does seem to draw that kind of blind reverence (and, for >that matter, equally blind hostility). > >c > > >On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:42 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >> Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's >> poetry. ?Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert >> Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of >> current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." >> One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only >> excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. ?I wasn't aware of >> Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. ?He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound to >> me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering to >> mention what's wrong with them. ?Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, without >> further comment. >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 15:25:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:25:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3@ripon.edu> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com><4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net><210145.82168.qm@web83303.mai l.sp1.yahoo.com> <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DE14C20.3070709@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 12:29 PM, David Graham wrote: > No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . > Here's one I like a lot. > > > *`Quote Unquote'* > > Who wrote that we use our children to forget > the size of our parents, or is that really > a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget > to write it, does that mean that someone will ? > > But what if someone forgets to write the words > that bring me here, that let me be born? > Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, > your quotemarks would just hang there in the air > > like wings without a bird. > > --Bill Knott . > /Asheville Poetry Review./ Not bad. I remember seeing some I thought okay. But the currentest ones at his blog are very poor. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 15:27:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <539176.3769.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com>, <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net>, <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com><4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> <539176.3769.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DE14CB1.40907@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 12:01 PM, amy king wrote: > > If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as > Knott's, we'd have heard about you. Instead, we only hear from you. Good critique of my poetry, Amy. Which I'm sure you've visited much more than I've visited the poetry I mention. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 14:22:48 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:22:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott Message-ID: <127018.1306606968410.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 14:35:07 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:35:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott Message-ID: <613211.1306607707643.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 15:27:54 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <4DE14CB1.40907@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com>, <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net>, <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D@gmail.com><4DE1330A.9020408@nut-n-but.net> <539176.3769.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4DE14CB1.40907@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <63477.23373.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Bob Grumman" writes poetry?? I hadn't heard.? Heard too much other stuff though... Amy ________________________________ On 5/28/2011 12:01 PM, amy king wrote: > >If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as Knott's, we'd have heard about you.? Instead, we only hear from you. Good critique of my poetry, Amy.? Which I'm sure you've visited much more than I've visited the poetry I mention. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 28 15:37:19 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3@ripon.edu> References: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> <4DE0DA73.4030402@nut-n-but.net> <210145.82168.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <754866.55921.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 Amy ________________________________ From: David Graham No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . ?Here's one I like a lot. ? `Quote Unquote' Who wrote that we use our children to forget the size of our parents, or is that really a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget to write it, does that mean that someone will ? But what if someone forgets to write the words that bring me here, that let me be born? Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, your quotemarks would just hang there in the air like wings without a bird. ? --Bill Knott.? Asheville Poetry Review. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat May 28 15:46:17 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:46:17 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir In-Reply-To: <21510210.1306606376408.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <21510210.1306606376408.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:12 AM, wrote: > There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality in the original. I didn't mean to imply there was. I recently enjoyed a translation of _The Frogs_ which was quite enjoyable and obviously used slang and colloquialisms to get at the informality and humor (as I take it) of the original. Only problem was that some of the slanginess had become a bit dated. Still, better than not having it. c From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 28 15:59:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:59:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <127018.1306606968410.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <127018.1306606968410.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6551722C-741B-4488-98E2-DE1DF590CE09@ripon.edu> A few further notes on Bill Knott. He was actually first published in 1968. *The Naomi Poems: Corpse and Beans* was credited to "St. Geraud," who had allegedly died in 1966. This little stunt of claiming to be deceased certainly did garner his work a special sort of attention in his early days, but he was quite clearly outed in Paul Carroll's introduction to the book, and in fact the copyright notice for the '68 book is under William Knott. His second collection, the equally ungracefully titled *Auto-Necrophilia,* appeared in 1971. Both the first two collections were from the long lamented Big Table Books in Chicago. I am not sure Knott ever had much truck with the New York School poets, first or second generation, though he certainly may have been popular with the second wave. As his association with Big Table suggests, he was a thoroughly Midwestern figure. My own recollection is that Knott was heavily promoted in the early days by Robert Bly in his *Sixties* journal. Often called a "deep image" poet and associated with others at the time: Bly, Wright, Merwin, Orr, et al. I was mad about the deep imagists at the time (I was just transitioning from high school to college), but I'm afraid that much of that work seems horribly dated to me now. For me books like Gregory Orr's first collection, which was well-thumbed indeed, is now unreadable. But Knott never quite fit into any mold or category, even from the start. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 28, 2011, at 1:22 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Knott emerged quite suddenly and noisily in the early seventies (noisily in poetry-world terms, which means that virtually nobody else noticed) and became seriously popular among the kiddie surrealists (my term) of the third generation New York School types emerging from some of the (then very few) MFA programs. He had a regular following at Columbia. Never meant much to me, maybe because I was 10 years older than most of the clac. At the time I suspected that his brief vogue had at least as much to do with the promise he held out for instant rock star status (again, in poetry-world terms) as to whatever the qualities of his verse. > > My opinion, anyway. > > A competent poem. Thanks. > > Best, > > Mark > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 17:15:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:15:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <613211.1306607707643.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <613211.1306607707643.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DE165D5.6030707@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 1:35 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > I know you may take my saying anything as ganging up, but please read > before you jump to conclusions. I'm merely supplying context, not > argument. > > The poetry world was so small before the eruption of the MFAs that > almost everything got noticed. Poetry was also regularly reviewed > (even first books) in very public venues, the New York Times among > them. If anything, the reign at the Times of Harvey Shapiro (1975-87, > I think), a well-known poet himself, saw a slight lessening of the > frequency of poetry reviews, tho he tended to hire very young poets to > do some of the reviewing. In that environment anybody interested in > career-building or notoriety had a pretty easy time of it. > > OK, back to fighting, kiddies. I'm not fighting, I'm just whining. But to add what you say, Mark, another factor is the Internet, and its predecessor, xeroxialization. These two were responsible for multiplying the poetry world out of the big cities (although they remain over-influential--and provincial) , which would again make it harder for a poet entering the field to get a name. Ironically, I was well-situated to get in on what was going on in visual poetry in the late sixties in NY, having grown up in Fairfield County, Connecticut, but my artistic growth was very slow, and by the time I learned about that scene I was in California trying to be a playwright. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 18:01:06 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:01:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott Message-ID: <22008299.1306620066592.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 18:03:15 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:03:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir Message-ID: <6365772.1306620195248.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Whose translation? -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: May 28, 2011 3:46 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > >On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:12 AM, wrote: >> There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality in the original. > >I didn't mean to imply there was. I recently enjoyed a translation of >_The Frogs_ which was quite enjoyable and obviously used slang and >colloquialisms to get at the informality and humor (as I take it) of >the original. Only problem was that some of the slanginess had become >a bit dated. Still, better than not having it. > >c >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Sat May 28 18:41:14 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:41:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott Message-ID: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat May 28 20:03:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 19:03:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DE18D64.9020806@nut-n-but.net> On 5/28/2011 5:41 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, > which is real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really > be so overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm > bringing too much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living > poets he refers to as successful seem to me not worth the paper. . He has seemed to me for the three or four years I've known of him to be as fiercely reactionary about poetry as I've been fiercely radical--except that I'm not against conventional poetry, just feel it shouldn't be considered the only kind of poetry whereas I think he believes only his kind should exist. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat May 28 19:02:41 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 19:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDEBA27AF49A63-1AB8-A264@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Either way, he whines enough to make the interview damn near unreadable. If he wants to match career sob stories, I know any number of poets who would be glad to have his readership and to have had one book with FSG. -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 6:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, which is real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really be so overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm bringing too much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living poets he refers to as successful seem to me not worth the paper. -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: May 28, 2011 3:37 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 Amy From: David Graham No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . Here's one I like a lot. `Quote Unquote' Who wrote that we use our children to forget the size of our parents, or is that really a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget to write it, does that mean that someone will ? But what if someone forgets to write the words that bring me here, that let me be born? Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, your quotemarks would just hang there in the air like wings without a bird. --Bill Knott. Asheville Poetry Review. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sun May 29 00:01:44 2011 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 05:01:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/28/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin AmericanPoetry > (Bob Grumman) > 2. Re: a kind request for help (Bob Grumman) > 3. Re: a kind request for help (Bob Grumman) > 4. Re: a kind request for help (Halvard Johnson) > 5. new Whale Sound audio chapbook - Fishwife by Jennifer Jean > (Nic Sebastian) > 6. Re: ] a kind request for help (Anny Ballardini) > 7. Re: ] a kind request for help (James Cervantes) > 8. New Letters to a Young Poet (jforjames at aol.com) > 9. TMI (jforjames at aol.com) > 10. Re: TMI (karen) > 11. R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (David Graham) > 12. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (Beverly Rainbolt) > 13. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (Millicent Borges Accardi) > 14. FW: "Piss Christ" destroyed (R Dillon) > 15. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (David Graham) > 16. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (Anny Ballardini) > 17. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (R Dillon) > 18. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (almaginnes at aol.com) > 19. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 20. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (sheila black) > 21. Re: Poet Laureate of West Hartford (Connie Voisine) > 22. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (carol dorf) > 23. Re: Bill Knott (Tad) > 24. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (David Graham) > 25. Re: Bill Knott (R Dillon) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:42:53 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin > AmericanPoetry > Message-ID: <4DDFE29D.4060708 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/27/2011 10:06 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >> This is a case of "don't believe everything you read" and a >> vindication of the critic's admission that he doesn't know much about >> the field beyond what's in this anthology. It's not very good. I say >> this despite one of my translations being included in it. One could >> play the usual game of who should be in who should be out, but it's >> beyond that:. > . > Needless to say, my major problem with what was reported to be in it was > the absence of references to a whole kind of major poetry, concrete > poetry. Other kinds of poetry, not just other poets, were left out., if > the reviewer's summary is accurate. An anthology of 20th Century Latin > American Poetry leaving out just concrete poetry would be like an > anthology of 20th Century American leaving out . . . I mean, would be > like most anthologies of 20th Century American poetry. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:45:16 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help > Message-ID: <4DDFE32C.3040701 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/27/2011 10:08 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." > > Dang, you beat me to it, Hal. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:52:48 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help > Message-ID: <4DDFE4F0.4090705 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we > don't have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would > be to give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:57:31 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Now, you just stop that, B-b-bob. If there's anything > I can't stand, it's your agreeing with me. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we don't >> have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would be to >> give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:01:49 -0400 > From: Nic Sebastian > To: New Poetry > Subject: [New-Poetry] new Whale Sound audio chapbook - Fishwife by > Jennifer Jean > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Announcing the new Whale Sound Audio Chapbook: 'Fishwife' by > Jennifer Jean, with music by Sarah Eide and art by Jinju Fong - > http://bit.ly/kpiNap. > Published as usual in multiple formats - web-based text & audio, PDF, > e-book, CD & print edition - some of which are free. > Best, Nic > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > > Forever Will End on Thursday > > > > From: GrahamD at ripon.edu > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:06:21 -0500 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help > > "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just > be another mainstream book, some might say.... > > I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. > ===================David GrahamGrahamd at ripon.edu > Home page:http://web.me.com/drjazz==================== > On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculousconcept. I mean, change > for the better? for the worse? > Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Justtoo vague for words. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] > > with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after > Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will take > place in September. The title, until now was/is > > > > 100 Thousand Poets for Change > > but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a > [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would like > to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive > enough, > > > > does anybody have an idea? > > Please? > > Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 > > > > > with wonderful contributions already. > Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, > > Anny > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:51:52 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Thanks Jerry for your kindest way of saying that nobody had a clue of what > we were talking about, I will b/c you and we can see what we have to > do/write/ *maybe to dream* > ? > I like the way you talk > of letting the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) > > Care, Anny > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> I've told you several times, Anny, that I've admired your editorial >> efforts, and especially celebrate your generosity. You've included my work >> in several of your lovely anthologies whose most important organizational >> principle was your own instinct for associative inclusiveness. So you >> won't think I'm being just wrong-headed or smou all in agreeing with >> others >> that this particular anthology is seriously mis-, under, or over-defined. >> It >> sets itself up with the Agamben quotation, which mostly baffles me. It >> shifts then (I think it's a shift, though it's set up as a logical >> transition) to place itself "in the context of this split between 'the end >> of time' and 'the time of the end'"; its reference to Benjamin doesn't >> help me understand how these theoretical pointers might help to position >> the >> works you want to include. There seem to be some ideological hobbyhorses >> working below the surface of this. I generally prefer gifted ambiguity to >> dumbed-down literalness, but Anny, the description seems to make large >> claims on projected content without really opening up about what it wants. >> If "change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >> relations are constructed" is the real issue (and this certainly would >> resonate with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process?), then >> you could just let the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) and, instead >> of >> saying what you don't want (i.e., anything _equal to or less than_ "the >> way >> social relations are constructed") you could frame that ideological >> position >> not in terms of what feels, to me, like Agamben's mystification, but in >> terms of some more substantial (or graspable) politics. >> >> If I'm completely misreading your call for submissions, I apologize, Anny, >> but I don't think I'm alone here. Why don't you just do a little >> back-channeling and see if you can clarify your aspirations? If people >> understand those, they'll be more likely to send you fabulous stuff. >> >> Yours, >> >> Jerry >> >> >> On 5/27/2011 10:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> Maybe Michael is looking for social change, at least the way I know >> Rothenberg. Obododimma, might or might not see 'just social change.' I am >> looking for personal change in the conviction that it will naturally lead >> to >> a broader way of thinking and of seeing the way we will have to shape our >> days within a community. >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Graham, David wrote: >> >>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the >>> concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that >>> stuff >>> about the messianic and the end of time. >>> >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is >>> our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael - >>> see it: >>> >>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>> ROTHENBERG)* >>> >>> >>> ** >>> >>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of >>> history >>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and >>> redeem >>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act >>> as >>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. >>> What >>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how >>> radically >>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one >>> must >>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the >>> now >>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If >>> l >>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the >>> time >>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is >>> one >>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world >>> and >>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return >>> our >>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>> >>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>> >>> >>> >>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global >>> writing >>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to >>> promote >>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the >>> United >>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one >>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >>> relations are constructed. >>> >>> >>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions >>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? >>> Corner >>> . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >>> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple >>> and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our >>> Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by >>> Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective >>> interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. >>> Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather >>> like >>> the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the >>> audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device >>> was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, >>> and >>> we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our >>> politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how >>> we >>> can change, revise history, start over again. >>> >>> >>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in >>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Obododimma Oha >>> Anny Ballardini >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David wrote: >>> >>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>> >>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>> =================== >>>> David Graham >>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>> too vague for words. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>> --David Shields >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>> >>>> *Mainly >>>> Black >>>> , **Obras >>>> P?blicas >>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>> Sonnets >>>> ;* >>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>>> Clones >>>> ; **Tango >>>> Bouquet >>>> ; **Theory of >>>> Harmony >>>> ; * >>>> *Rapsodie >>>> espagnole >>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>>> Subway >>>> ; **The Sonnet >>>> Project >>>> ; * >>>> *G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>> Journey ; >>>> **Eclipse >>>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>>> Swan >>>> ;* >>>> *Transparencies & >>>> Projections >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>> >>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>> after >>>>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will >>>>> take >>>>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>> >>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like >>>>> a >>>>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would >>>>> like >>>>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>> sensitive >>>>> enough, >>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>> >>>>> Please? >>>>> >>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>> >>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Anny >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>>> star! >>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>> >>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>> Giovenale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing >> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:14:27 -0700 > From: James Cervantes > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Lego my leg. > > - Jim > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I thought we Play-doh. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly >> Black >> , **Obras >> P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >> Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones >> ; **Tango >> Bouquet >> ; **Theory of >> Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie >> espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >> Subway >> ; **The Sonnet >> Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; >> **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & >> Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> :-) >>> Nah, we Schopenhauer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 PM, James Cervantes < >>> cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes We Kant >>>> >>>> - Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 100Thousand >>>>> Poets in Community >>>>> >>>>> A Gathering of Poets >>>>> >>>>> Time for a Change Through Poetry >>>>> >>>>> Give Poetry a Chance >>>>> >>>>> Consecutive Moments of Now >>>>> >>>>> Mindful Poets >>>>> >>>>> Posts Living in the Present >>>>> >>>>> The Be Here Now Poets >>>>> >>>>> Poets in the Now >>>>> >>>>> Poets Gathering Moment by Moment >>>>> >>>>> A Shift in the Universe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Graham, David >>>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am >>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >>>>> >>>>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's >>>>> the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all >>>>> that >>>>> stuff about the messianic and the end of time. >>>>> >>>>> =================== >>>>> David Graham >>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>> >>>>> Home page: >>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>> ==================== >>>>> >>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here >>>>> is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally >>>>> Michael - >>>>> see it: >>>>> >>>>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>>>> ROTHENBERG)* >>>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this >>>>> book, >>>>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >>>>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of >>>>> history >>>>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and >>>>> redeem >>>>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act >>>>> as >>>>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. >>>>> What >>>>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how >>>>> radically >>>>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>>>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one >>>>> must >>>>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the >>>>> now >>>>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, >>>>> "If l >>>>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >>>>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the >>>>> time >>>>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is >>>>> one >>>>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>>>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this >>>>> world and >>>>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>>>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return >>>>> our >>>>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>>>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>>>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>>>> >>>>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the >>>>> time >>>>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global >>>>> writing >>>>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to >>>>> promote >>>>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>>>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>>>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the >>>>> United >>>>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, >>>>> one >>>>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >>>>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way >>>>> social >>>>> relations are constructed. >>>>> >>>>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>>>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic >>>>> compositions >>>>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? >>>>> Corner . * Visual >>>>> artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to >>>>> be >>>>> submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous >>>>> statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time >>>>> requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond >>>>> in >>>>> *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a >>>>> mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond >>>>> continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the >>>>> dramatic >>>>> pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is >>>>> waiting >>>>> to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or >>>>> not.? >>>>> We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need >>>>> of a >>>>> Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make >>>>> students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, >>>>> revise >>>>> history, start over again. >>>>> >>>>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>>>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be >>>>> in >>>>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>>>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> Obododimma Oha >>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < >>>>> GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>>>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>>>> >>>>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>>>> =================== >>>>>> David Graham >>>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> Home page: >>>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>>> ==================== >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>>>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>>>> too vague for words. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>>> --David Shields >>>>>> >>>>>> Hal >>>>>> >>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> >>>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>>> >>>>>> *Mainly >>>>>> Black >>>>>> , **Obras >>>>>> P?blicas >>>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>>>> Sonnets >>>>>> ;* >>>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>>>>> Clones >>>>>> ; **Tango >>>>>> Bouquet >>>>>> ; **Theory of >>>>>> Harmony >>>>>> ; * >>>>>> ***Rapsodie >>>>>> espagnole >>>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>>>>> Subway >>>>>> ; **The Sonnet >>>>>> Project >>>>>> ; * >>>>>> ***G(e)nome ; >>>>>> **Winter >>>>>> Journey ; >>>>>> **Eclipse >>>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>>>>> Swan >>>>>> ;* >>>>>> *Transparencies & >>>>>> Projections >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini >>>>>> < >>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>>>> after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening >>>>>>> that will >>>>>>> take place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>>>> sensitive enough, >>>>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anny >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>>>>>> dancing star! >>>>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>>>> Giovenale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>> >>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>> >>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>> >>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>>> star! >>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>> >>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>> Giovenale >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing >>>>> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >>>> >>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>>> >>>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>>> >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:43:17 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] New Letters to a Young Poet > Message-ID: <8CDEAB513CD2BCD-770-32B56 at webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > New Letters to a Young Poet > Joan Margarit > Translated and with an Afterword by Christopher Maurer > http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/N/bo10380378.html > > University of Chicago Press > Distributed for Swan Isle Press > 120 pages | ? 2010 > > In these intimate pages, award-winning Catalan poet Joan Margarit offers a > passionate defense of poetry and of the intelligible poem?the well-made text > that can provide refuge, wisdom, and consolation. Inspired by Rilke's > classic Letters to a Young Poet, this slender volume explores poetry as > vocation, obsession, and partnership between writer and reader, a "road > toward inner growth." For Margarit, poetry promises "a clarity that allows > us mysteriously to live without the need to forget." This is essential > reading for poets young and old, writers, and readers seeking insights into > the creative process and "the way both poet and reader can find their own > way to face solitude." > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:30:20 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] TMI > Message-ID: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E at Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:04:33 -0700 > From: karen > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] TMI > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I especially liked: "Bill Knott should be beaten with a flail." > ?Tomaz Salamun, Snow, 1973 > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:30 PM, wrote: >> http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > k > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:39:30 -0500 > From: Beverly Rainbolt > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: <29D31EFE-CE49-41DC-BB99-55BBEC1D4C02 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > There used to be a band that played in New Orleans named Girl Scout Heron, > which I thought was clever. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 27, 2011, at 9:23 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 (EDT) > From: Millicent Borges Accardi > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D at webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd survived. > Such a loss. > > Makes me sad. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 04:58:37 +0000 > From: R Dillon > To: > Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: "Piss Christ" destroyed > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Serrano is quoted as saying that his Christian artworks intend to upbraid > the commercialization of Christian iconography and religious practice. In > particular, Serrano really disapproves of television evangelists hawking > their tapes and geegaws. I am convinced now, more than ever, that my > original intuitions and views on this artwork, and the others, was right. > By immersing a Crucifix into a volume of his own urine, Serrano, personally, > sought to bear witness to the deepest problem of Jesus' mission. Those who > believe, as do the Christians who roughed up the guards, and destroyed the > work, that sacrilege was Serrano's mission miss his point entirely. I > cannot say what Nietzsche would opine (But it might have caused him to write > another treatise about the epigram, "God is Dead.") had he the opportunity > to view the "Piss Christ" and the extreme reaction to it by those who are, > mistakenly, and, expectedly, offended, and by those, the anti-Christian > ACLU type Radical Liberal > s who are confirmed in their view that Serrano is a hero for debunking the > fraud of Jesus, and with Robbespierre, Stalin and Che (and weird guys/gals > on the Boulder Mall who wore Che t-shirts to the poetry readings) or, come > to think of it, Bill Ayers, Bernadhine Dorhn (busy with the work of the > destruction of the state of Israel and, of course, what's left of > Christendom in the American school and legal system), or George Bernard Shaw > and Bertrand Russell, who might laugh with glee as they toasted Serrano, a > fellow genius, for, finally, debunking Chrisitianity with such brilliant > panache. But, unfortunately for them, Serrano is a serious man, like his > fellow artist and Christian, Salvador Dali, and the writer, Agatha Christie, > and knows that the Lord will not be mocked. I have no doubt that Jesus, > himself, would praise Serrano, and would remind the artist that he, Jesus, > did not come among men to affirm their narrow minded predispositions, > especiallly in matters of the in > terpretation of his teachings. Jesus might have even come to Serrano in > his artistic reveries and provided some inspirited concepts to enact. > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/18/andres-serrano-piss-christ-destroyed-christian-protesters > > > > http://www.speroforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7153 > > -- Shared using Google Toolbar > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > Message-ID: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44 at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: > >> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . > > ================================== > > "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:41:16 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I would like to add that the pictures are indeed beautiful, as someone else > has already commented. > > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >> >> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >> >> >> ================================== >> >> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:21:07 +0000 > From: R Dillon > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my > prose, except for Christ. > > > > From: grahamd at ripon.edu > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 > To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: > I have no doubt that Jesus . . . > > ================================== > > > "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:42:30 +0000 > From: almaginnes at aol.com > To: "NewPoetry List" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: > <648729412-1306575751-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1015686138- at b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > A damn shame. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > &Views > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 06:20:19 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE0DA73.4030402 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without > having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his > work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! > > I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of > his poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views > aren't mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:11:38 +0000 > From: sheila black > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Me, too,Millicent... > > Sheo;a > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: millb at aol.com > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd survived. > Such a loss. > > > > > > Makes me sad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Graham > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views > > > Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm > > Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > > > > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > > > Home Page: > > > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > > > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:40:48 -0500 > From: Connie Voisine > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > dear all-- > > i have finally gotten around to reading this article and i'd like to > say that jim finnegan is one of the folks who made my two years in > connecticut wonderful for me poetically. through him i met some > wonderful poets and had many evenings talking and thinking about > poems. > > connie > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: >> I wish to congratulate James Finnegan officially. Simply deserved. >> With my best, Anny >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:53 PM, James Cervantes >> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. ?Congratulations, Mr. >>> Finnegan. >>> - Jim >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: >>>> >>>> Uh, oh. ?I smell a power grab. . . . ?First West Hartford, next it'll be >>>> Parkville & Newington Junction. ?Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and >>>> Unionville will fall. . . . ? Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. ? Is >>>> there >>>> nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? >>>> >>>> Congratulations, Jim! >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================== >>>> David Graham >>>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home Page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> >>>> Poetry Library: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>>> ========================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >>> >>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>> >>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > > -- > Connie Voisine > Associate Professor of English > New Mexico State University > cvoisine at nmsu.edu > 575-646-2027 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:34:10 -0700 > From: carol dorf > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that > combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. > > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 6:11 AM, sheila black > wrote: > >> Me, too,Millicent... >> >> Sheo;a >> >> ------------------------------ >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> From: millb at aol.com >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd >> survived. >> Such a loss. >> >> Makes me sad. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Graham >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views < >> new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu> >> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing >> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:58:47 -0400 > From: Tad > To: NewPoetry List > Cc: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little > compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without >> having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his >> work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! >> >> I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of his >> poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views aren't >> mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:16:56 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed > Message-ID: <898512F8-D7CC-487B-A644-70F8A8AD6F8C at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have no cold water to throw at any honest seeker, but I do get itchy when > told what Jesus thinks--unless it's Jesus Himself reporting. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 28, 2011, at 4:21 AM, R Dillon wrote: > >> I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my >> prose, except for Christ. >> >> From: grahamd at ripon.edu >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 >> To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >> >> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >> >> ================================== >> >> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 15:38:47 +0000 > From: R Dillon > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He was published > by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round the Grolier. The > one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused some alarm, depending > upon the day, was his streetness. His white Levis, white shirt, were > grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by life, but kept coming back. That was > then and look at him now. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 36 > ****************************************** > From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 29 15:08:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 15:08:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott In-Reply-To: <8CDEBA27AF49A63-1AB8-A264@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDEBA27AF49A63-1AB8-A264@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEC4AF4F86480-183C-9CE6A@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Knott_(poet) Besides FSG, the bibliography shows books by Random House, Pitt and Boa Editions. And many small presses besides the self-published chapbooks. I remember picking up a few of those handmade BK chaps in Boston, lying around for the taking here and there. I thought at time, that's cool; good for you, Bill Knott. But he seems to feel it was some kind of desperate form of publication, publication of the last resort. His first book was published under a pseudonym, may a suggest his last book could be 'by Will Kvetch'. Finnegan To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 7:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott Either way, he whines enough to make the interview damn near unreadable. If he wants to match career sob stories, I know any number of poets who would be glad to have his readership and to have had one book with FSG. -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 6:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, which is real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really be so overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm bringing too much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living poets he refers to as successful seem to me not worth the paper. -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: May 28, 2011 3:37 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 Either way, he whines enough to make the interview damn near unreadable. If he wants to match career sob stories, I know any number of poets who would be glad to have his readership and to have had one book with FSG. -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 6:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, which is real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really be so overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm bringing too much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living poets he refers to as successful seem to me not worth the paper. -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: May 28, 2011 3:37 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun May 29 15:18:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 15:18:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Ferry Message-ID: <8CDEC4C45C7DA3A-183C-9D02A@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/05/27/poet_to_donate_his_100000_national_award/ David Ferry said he was thunderstruck when he received one of poetry?s most prestigious awards. But he is pretty clear about his plans for the $100,000 that came with the honor: ?I?m giving it all away,?? he said. Earlier this month, the acclaimed poet and translator accepted the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize, which recognizes extraordinary lifetime accomplishment for a living US poet, at a ceremony in Chicago... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun May 29 19:02:36 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 23:02:36 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed, ressurrected In-Reply-To: <898512F8-D7CC-487B-A644-70F8A8AD6F8C@ripon.edu> References: , , , , <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44@ripon.edu>, , <898512F8-D7CC-487B-A644-70F8A8AD6F8C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Argue your insights. It's obvious that I'm imagining, and reasoning those imaginations in the Serrano disquisitions therefrom. Hey, it's fine and dandy if you don't like the way I envision what I experienced at the Serrano art show at the Soho Guggenheim. Coincidentally, we have the example of Bill Knott over there in Boston being threatened with hanging by some self-annointed gatekeeper in New York due to the way he puts his views. Come to think of it, Jesus was censored and declared persona non grata when he spoke for God. The real question for you is whether you get itchy when it becomes incumbent on you to change your accustomed system of belief (one that I take to be on the ACLU-Heinz Kerry/Soros side of the ledger, although, you can correct me, of course, on this assumption, you know, of you having an Ashberian agnostical sensibility that counts on ambiguity as a necessary ingrediant for ironic sanity) once Jesus, as He did in the case of Simone Weil, appears, unexpectedly, in your "mind," or "life," or "situation" or, even, in this level of the manifestation, now, here. Serrano understands this, I submit. So, come to think of it, does Jesus. My talent is on loan from God, as a radio preacher sometimes says. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:16:56 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed I have no cold water to throw at any honest seeker, but I do get itchy when told what Jesus thinks--unless it's Jesus Himself reporting. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 28, 2011, at 4:21 AM, R Dillon wrote: I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my prose, except for Christ. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: I have no doubt that Jesus . . . ================================== "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun May 29 19:33:48 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 19:33:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed, ressurrected Message-ID: <15787585.1306712028734.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sun May 29 21:13:55 2011 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 02:13:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ref ANTHOLOGY ON SOCIAL CHANGE -PLEASE LET THE TITLE WORK OUT ITSELF EVENTUALLY... Great Poets' thoughts from all continents on a topic with inherent antiquity as well as perennial dynamo operatable by man's robotic age facilitated by the computers and simputers will be marvellous to read or browse resplendently -but by who?Unless the title is catchy,the cover,densely artisctically designed and the theme stretchable beyond a novel pant, the extraordinary ev idence of human ecology and trends in politics and ethical flux in other sectors and sulphureted social sewage should eventually or naturally bring out the composite label or title of this timely,well-thought Wernickle 's exercise from Obododimma & Anny inviting global artistic and poetic contributions,If the anthology will not necessarily accept esoteric or too translucent poetry of any style and poets are permitted to beat or kneal the topic on all sides with armory of their intellectual or linguistic exposure -it'll be more literarily congrous if ther'es a mere working title prior a grand finale cover title.For instance on reading Bob 's reactions -warning about monotony of conventional poetry i thought of something submissible-though i havent done much meditative monologue on a more or most suitable title to the anthology on poets seriously or otherwise pressing for social change i suggest you consider POETS AND THE UNFLASHED REALITIES OF CHANGE or POETS & THE MYSTERY OF THE END OF TIME. However i m not yet plastic about this modest option nor will i annul artistic chess on this till you wind up.Again -in order not to exclude or exonerate poets from the whole gamut of positive change desired to usher in Homo Concors rather than the inexorable Homo sapiens still pervading the status quo with benefolence today and malevolence in avalanche here or there... we need not once and for all set up a plastic title for the anthology.DOING SO -RIGHT NOW -may be philosophically harmless yet philologically regretable -if poets imagery become more easthetically appropriate than hitherto working title. More thoughts will be sent presently.-GBEMI TIJANI MST,30 May 2011,2.04am On 5/29/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 2. Kleinzahler on Kabir (David Graham) > 3. Re: Bill Knott (Halvard Johnson) > 4. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 5. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 6. Re: Bill Knott (amy king) > 7. Re: Bill Knott (amy king) > 8. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (amy king) > 9. Re: Bill Knott (amy king) > 10. Re: Bill Knott (David Graham) > 11. Re: Kleinzahler on Kabir (Chris Lott) > 12. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (almaginnes at aol.com) > 13. Re: Kleinzahler on Kabir (junction at earthlink.net) > 14. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 15. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 16. Re: Bill Knott (junction at earthlink.net) > 17. Re: Bill Knott (junction at earthlink.net) > 18. Re: Bill Knott (amy king) > 19. Re: Bill Knott (amy king) > 20. Re: Kleinzahler on Kabir (Chris Lott) > 21. Re: Bill Knott (David Graham) > 22. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 23. Re: Bill Knott (junction at earthlink.net) > 24. Re: Kleinzahler on Kabir (junction at earthlink.net) > 25. Re: Bill Knott (junction at earthlink.net) > 26. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) > 27. Re: Bill Knott (almaginnes at aol.com) > 28. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 36 (BY TJMST) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:38:18 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE1330A.9020408 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 10:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: >> I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He >> was published by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round >> the Grolier. The one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused >> some alarm, depending upon the day, was his streetness. His >> white Levis, white shirt, were grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by >> life, but kept coming back. That was then and look at him now. > . > I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has. How'd he > manage that? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! > > (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to > deal with than mine.) > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:42:48 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's > poetry. Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert > Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of > current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." > > One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only > excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. I wasn't aware of > Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound to > me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering to > mention what's wrong with them. Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, without > further comment. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:43:45 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Easy for you to say, B-bob, but some of us mediocrities > just don't cotton to your bait. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> On 5/28/2011 10:38 AM, R Dillon wrote: >> >> I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He was published >> by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round the Grolier. The >> one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused some alarm, depending >> upon the day, was his streetness. His white Levis, white shirt, were >> grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by life, but kept coming back. That was >> then and look at him now. >> >> . >> I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has. How'd he >> manage >> that? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! >> >> (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to deal >> with than mine.) >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:54:48 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE136E8.2040906 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 11:43 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Easy for you to say, B-bob, but some of us mediocrities >> just don't cotton to your bait. >> > . > I thought that's what I said, Hal. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:57:32 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE1378C.9000807 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/28/2011 9:58 AM, Tad wrote: >> Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little >> compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? > . > Not at all, Tad. Grinds don't realize but there are ways to learn > things indirectly. Not that I haven't read all that many people I have > opinions of. If you want to criticize me, you need specifics. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <539176.3769.qm at web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as Knott's, > we'd have heard about you.? Instead, we only hear from you. > > Amy > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Grumman > > > I love to get the published notice of the bigShots he has.? How'd he > manage that?? Ain't I as obnoxerousk as him??! > > (I think, really, that his poetry is much easier for mediocrities to > deal with than mine.) > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:05:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <237602.79736.qm at web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Bob's?? "Thus Spake the Broken Record..."? So many pronouncements to make, > no time to get informed. > > > Amy > > > ________________________________ > From: Tad > > Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little > compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? > > On May 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Really strange.? I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without >> having seen much of his work.? But the hyperWilshberians don't like his >> work.? What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! >> >> I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of his >> poems can't do it.? The ones I read don't make sense.? His views aren't >> mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. >> >> --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:07:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: <666132.40536.qm at web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Sad news, too soon... > > > > ________________________________ > From: carol dorf > > I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that > combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: David Graham >> >> >>http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:18:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <210145.82168.qm at web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I would ask, "What does this proclamation even mean?"? But I already know:? > And the Zombies from yore rose up and spread their news of > Wilshladiddly-egos all about their litter box, managing to strew some choice > bits to the screens of New Poetry readers everywhere!? > > Get your squeegees ready, folks... > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Grumman > > Really strange.? I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without > having seen much of his work.? But the hyperWilshberians don't like his > work.? What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:29:14 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <3F932833-2C14-4CC6-925F-7E6170DCF6D3 at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . Here's > one I like a lot. > > > `Quote Unquote' > > Who wrote that we use our children to forget > the size of our parents, or is that really > a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget > to write it, does that mean that someone will ? > > But what if someone forgets to write the words > that bring me here, that let me be born? > Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, > your quotemarks would just hang there in the air > > like wings without a bird. > > --Bill Knott. Asheville Poetry Review. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:36:58 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Kleinzahler does seem to draw that kind of blind reverence (and, for > that matter, equally blind hostility). > > c > > > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:42 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >> Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's >> poetry. ?Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert >> Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of >> current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." >> One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only >> excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. ?I wasn't aware >> of >> Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. ?He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound >> to >> me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering to >> mention what's wrong with them. ?Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, >> without >> further comment. >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:32:23 -0400 (EDT) > From: almaginnes at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > Message-ID: <8CDEB7456C50A72-678-2A893 at webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > A poem from David Rigsbee about Gil Scott Heron. This can be found in > David's new and selected poems The Red Tower. > > > > > > > > Gil?s Sentence > > ?Gil Scott-Heron to Be Sentenced? > ?NY Times, July 9, > 2006 > > ?I find that rhetoric does my thinking for me,? > she said, turning the page, moving on, > having out-Plathed Plath, including > the bitchy conjurations of voice > that threatened to make all a trick > and fostered ill will. Next up, me. > I read my serious, inadequate verse, > remembering all the while the assassinating > queries of my undergraduate workshops: > ?What is the function of the ego in this poem?? > ?What does the third person mediate? Or is it > really you?? So often the poem came down > to you, and after my soft-voiced rendition, > silence followed suit, a reset button > before the class critic trained an interrogating > eye on one offending line. Elliott Coleman, > too aged and amiable to rein in > the revolutionary spirits of the seminar > pretended a real point of craft was at issue > and let the sans-coulottes have their way. > ?It?s sentimental,? said one. ?The subject > is unstable,? said another. I had > no answer to these indictments and sat > silently, a you, while the rest of the eyes > wobbled back and forth as if not quite > believing their luck in having stumbled > on a massacre. Then a large black man rose, > I mean actually stood up and in doing so > tipped over his unlocked briefcase > spilling old cups, record albums, a copy > of his recent (published) novel and some spoons. > Scanning the table, he who had been silent > all semester debuted a serrated baritone > that wondered about the merit of intention, > something he thought neglected (?Intention is > the moon I follow,? I seem to remember > his saying, though the verbatim trips here). > He was risen to that defense when justice > was poetic and of course snubbed me > later when I tried to ingratiate myself > with a little joke in our apartment elevator. > That other was about language: that was all. > But this was the weekend. He was in his > other world with his band, his other means. > Four or five menacing afros with shades > followed him silently up to a different view > of that white moon out in the alley, > beyond my place, beyond where I got off. > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 1:10 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron > > > Sad news, too soon... > > > > > > From: carol dorf > > I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that > combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > > > http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:12:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > Message-ID: > <21510210.1306606376408.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality in > the original. The problem is to avoid anachronism, which means you have to > know what your current informal usages mean. The examples given for the most > part sound suspiciously like Mehrotra doesn't, which makes sense, since he > doesn't speak American dialect. What could possibly have corresponded in > 15th century India to the extremely specific "dreadlocked rasta?" But his > English dialect usages seem pretty suspect, as well, tho he certainly speaks > it: "Faber poets?" There's a clue as to intention in his use of epigraphs: > "There are epigraphs from Marcus Aurelius, Leadbelly, Gerard Manley Hopkins, > Richard Hugo and Tom Paulin, among others." I've never heard of a translator > supplying epigraphs foreign to the original. It's a way, it would seem to > me, of claiming the poem as one's own. And I suspect that's what's happening > here--these are probably versions rather than translations. This is of > course sight > unseen and with no Hindi on my part. > > A far more egregious example of a "translator" (and in this case it has to > be in scare quotes) claiming the original is Daniel Ladinsky's Hafiz. Murat > Nemet-Nejat among many others has commented. > http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/H/HafizLadinsk/index.htm. Ladinsky's > translations, so-presented unblushingly by his publisher, don't follow from > any known erses of Hafiz--Ladinsky claims that Hafiz dictated them to him in > English. > > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Lott >>Sent: May 28, 2011 1:36 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir >> >>Kleinzahler does seem to draw that kind of blind reverence (and, for >>that matter, equally blind hostility). >> >>c >> >> >>On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:42 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>> Quite a rave review by Kleinzahler of some new translations of Kabir's >>> poetry. ?Sounds like a very interesting book, definitely in the Robert >>> Lowell "versions" mode, since the examples quoted include all sorts of >>> current slang, such as "dreadlocked rasta." >>> One does wonder how the reviewer can be so sure that they are not only >>> excellent translations, but the *only* good ones extant. ?I wasn't aware >>> of >>> Kleinzahler's fluency in Hindi. ?He dismisses Bly's versions (which sound >>> to >>> me rather like the quoted examples from the new book) without bothering >>> to >>> mention what's wrong with them. ?Pound's are also adjudged unworthy, >>> without >>> further comment. >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-songs-of-kabir-by-translated-by-arvind-krishna-mehrotra.html >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:25:20 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE14C20.3070709 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 12:29 PM, David Graham wrote: >> No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . >> Here's one I like a lot. >> >> >> *`Quote Unquote'* >> >> Who wrote that we use our children to forget >> the size of our parents, or is that really >> a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget >> to write it, does that mean that someone will ? >> >> But what if someone forgets to write the words >> that bring me here, that let me be born? >> Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, >> your quotemarks would just hang there in the air >> >> like wings without a bird. >> >> --Bill Knott . >> /Asheville Poetry Review./ > Not bad. I remember seeing some I thought okay. But the currentest > ones at his blog are very poor. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:27:45 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE14CB1.40907 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 12:01 PM, amy king wrote: >> >> If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as >> Knott's, we'd have heard about you. Instead, we only hear from you. > > Good critique of my poetry, Amy. Which I'm sure you've visited much > more than I've visited the poetry I mention. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:22:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > <127018.1306606968410.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:35:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > <613211.1306607707643.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:27:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <63477.23373.qm at web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > "Bob Grumman" writes poetry?? I hadn't heard.? Heard too much other stuff > though... > > > Amy > > > ________________________________ > > > On 5/28/2011 12:01 PM, amy king wrote: > >> >>If yours was only a tiny fraction as interesting and worthwhile as Knott's, >> we'd have heard about you.? Instead, we only hear from you. > Good critique of my poetry, Amy.? Which I'm sure you've visited much > more than I've visited the poetry I mention. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 12:37:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <754866.55921.qm at web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 > > Amy > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Graham > > > No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . ?Here's > one I like a lot. ? > > > `Quote Unquote' > > Who wrote that we use our children to forget > the size of our parents, or is that really > a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget > to write it, does that mean that someone will ? > > But what if someone forgets to write the words > that bring me here, that let me be born? > Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, > your quotemarks would just hang there in the air > > like wings without a bird. > ? > --Bill Knott.? Asheville Poetry Review. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:46:17 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:12 AM, wrote: >> There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality in >> the original. > > I didn't mean to imply there was. I recently enjoyed a translation of > _The Frogs_ which was quite enjoyable and obviously used slang and > colloquialisms to get at the informality and humor (as I take it) of > the original. Only problem was that some of the slanginess had become > a bit dated. Still, better than not having it. > > c > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:59:50 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <6551722C-741B-4488-98E2-DE1DF590CE09 at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > A few further notes on Bill Knott. He was actually first published in 1968. > *The Naomi Poems: Corpse and Beans* was credited to "St. Geraud," who had > allegedly died in 1966. This little stunt of claiming to be deceased > certainly did garner his work a special sort of attention in his early days, > but he was quite clearly outed in Paul Carroll's introduction to the book, > and in fact the copyright notice for the '68 book is under William Knott. > His second collection, the equally ungracefully titled *Auto-Necrophilia,* > appeared in 1971. Both the first two collections were from the long > lamented Big Table Books in Chicago. > > I am not sure Knott ever had much truck with the New York School poets, > first or second generation, though he certainly may have been popular with > the second wave. As his association with Big Table suggests, he was a > thoroughly Midwestern figure. My own recollection is that Knott was heavily > promoted in the early days by Robert Bly in his *Sixties* journal. Often > called a "deep image" poet and associated with others at the time: Bly, > Wright, Merwin, Orr, et al. > > I was mad about the deep imagists at the time (I was just transitioning from > high school to college), but I'm afraid that much of that work seems > horribly dated to me now. For me books like Gregory Orr's first collection, > which was well-thumbed indeed, is now unreadable. But Knott never quite fit > into any mold or category, even from the start. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On May 28, 2011, at 1:22 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > >> Knott emerged quite suddenly and noisily in the early seventies (noisily >> in poetry-world terms, which means that virtually nobody else noticed) and >> became seriously popular among the kiddie surrealists (my term) of the >> third generation New York School types emerging from some of the (then >> very few) MFA programs. He had a regular following at Columbia. Never >> meant much to me, maybe because I was 10 years older than most of the >> clac. At the time I suspected that his brief vogue had at least as much to >> do with the promise he held out for instant rock star status (again, in >> poetry-world terms) as to whatever the qualities of his verse. >> >> My opinion, anyway. >> >> A competent poem. Thanks. >> >> Best, >> >> Mark >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:15:01 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE165D5.6030707 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 1:35 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >> I know you may take my saying anything as ganging up, but please read >> before you jump to conclusions. I'm merely supplying context, not >> argument. >> >> The poetry world was so small before the eruption of the MFAs that >> almost everything got noticed. Poetry was also regularly reviewed >> (even first books) in very public venues, the New York Times among >> them. If anything, the reign at the Times of Harvey Shapiro (1975-87, >> I think), a well-known poet himself, saw a slight lessening of the >> frequency of poetry reviews, tho he tended to hire very young poets to >> do some of the reviewing. In that environment anybody interested in >> career-building or notoriety had a pretty easy time of it. >> >> OK, back to fighting, kiddies. > I'm not fighting, I'm just whining. But to add what you say, Mark, > another factor is the Internet, and its predecessor, xeroxialization. > These two were responsible for multiplying the poetry world out of the > big cities (although they remain over-influential--and provincial) , > which would again make it harder for a poet entering the field to get a > name. Ironically, I was well-situated to get in on what was going on in > visual poetry in the late sixties in NY, having grown up in Fairfield > County, Connecticut, but my artistic growth was very slow, and by the > time I learned about that scene I was in California trying to be a > playwright. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:01:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > <22008299.1306620066592.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:03:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir > Message-ID: > <6365772.1306620195248.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Whose translation? > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Lott >>Sent: May 28, 2011 3:46 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kleinzahler on Kabir >> >>On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 10:12 AM, wrote: >>> There's nothing wrong with using modern slang to suggest an informality >>> in the original. >> >>I didn't mean to imply there was. I recently enjoyed a translation of >>_The Frogs_ which was quite enjoyable and obviously used slang and >>colloquialisms to get at the informality and humor (as I take it) of >>the original. Only problem was that some of the slanginess had become >>a bit dated. Still, better than not having it. >> >>c >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:41:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: > <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root at wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 19:03:48 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <4DE18D64.9020806 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 5/28/2011 5:41 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >> It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, >> which is real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really >> be so overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm >> bringing too much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living >> poets he refers to as successful seem to me not worth the paper. > . > He has seemed to me for the three or four years I've known of him to be > as fiercely reactionary about poetry as I've been fiercely > radical--except that I'm not against conventional poetry, just feel it > shouldn't be considered the only kind of poetry whereas I think he > believes only his kind should exist. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 19:02:41 -0400 (EDT) > From: almaginnes at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > Message-ID: <8CDEBA27AF49A63-1AB8-A264 at web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > Either way, he whines enough to make the interview damn near unreadable. If > he wants to match career sob stories, I know any number of poets who would > be glad to have his readership and to have had one book with FSG. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: junction > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 6:41 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > > > It's hard to know how much of this is put-on--not the experience, which is > real enough and then some, but the attitudes. Could he really be so > overwhelmingly concerned with career?. Or it may be that I'm bringing too > much of my own taste to it--almost all the still-living poets he refers to > as successful seem to me not worth the paper. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: May 28, 2011 3:37 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott > > > More context - an interview with Knott - http://www.memorious.org/?id=140 > > Amy > > > > > > From: David Graham > > > No harm in looking at some actual Bill Knott poetry, I trust. . . . Here's > one I like a lot. > > > > > > `Quote Unquote' > > > Who wrote that we use our children to forget > the size of our parents, or is that really > a quote? And if it isn't, and if I forget > to write it, does that mean that someone will ? > > > But what if someone forgets to write the words > that bring me here, that let me be born? > Oh micro-mini-soul, you, my shirking ego, > your quotemarks would just hang there in the air > > > like wings without a bird. > > --Bill Knott. Asheville Poetry Review. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 05:01:44 +0100 > From: BY TJMST > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 36 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 5/28/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > wrote: >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin AmericanPoetry >> (Bob Grumman) >> 2. Re: a kind request for help (Bob Grumman) >> 3. Re: a kind request for help (Bob Grumman) >> 4. Re: a kind request for help (Halvard Johnson) >> 5. new Whale Sound audio chapbook - Fishwife by Jennifer Jean >> (Nic Sebastian) >> 6. Re: ] a kind request for help (Anny Ballardini) >> 7. Re: ] a kind request for help (James Cervantes) >> 8. New Letters to a Young Poet (jforjames at aol.com) >> 9. TMI (jforjames at aol.com) >> 10. Re: TMI (karen) >> 11. R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (David Graham) >> 12. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (Beverly Rainbolt) >> 13. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (Millicent Borges Accardi) >> 14. FW: "Piss Christ" destroyed (R Dillon) >> 15. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (David Graham) >> 16. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (Anny Ballardini) >> 17. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (R Dillon) >> 18. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (almaginnes at aol.com) >> 19. Re: Bill Knott (Bob Grumman) >> 20. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (sheila black) >> 21. Re: Poet Laureate of West Hartford (Connie Voisine) >> 22. Re: R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron (carol dorf) >> 23. Re: Bill Knott (Tad) >> 24. Re: "Piss Christ" destroyed (David Graham) >> 25. Re: Bill Knott (R Dillon) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:42:53 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin >> AmericanPoetry >> Message-ID: <4DDFE29D.4060708 at nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" >> >> On 5/27/2011 10:06 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >>> This is a case of "don't believe everything you read" and a >>> vindication of the critic's admission that he doesn't know much about >>> the field beyond what's in this anthology. It's not very good. I say >>> this despite one of my translations being included in it. One could >>> play the usual game of who should be in who should be out, but it's >>> beyond that:. >> . >> Needless to say, my major problem with what was reported to be in it was >> the absence of references to a whole kind of major poetry, concrete >> poetry. Other kinds of poetry, not just other poets, were left out., if >> the reviewer's summary is accurate. An anthology of 20th Century Latin >> American Poetry leaving out just concrete poetry would be like an >> anthology of 20th Century American leaving out . . . I mean, would be >> like most anthologies of 20th Century American poetry. >> >> --Bob >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:45:16 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help >> Message-ID: <4DDFE32C.3040701 at nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" >> >> On 5/27/2011 10:08 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> I think they ought to call it "Poets for Being Nice." >> >> Dang, you beat me to it, Hal. >> >> --Bob >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:52:48 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help >> Message-ID: <4DDFE4F0.4090705 at nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we >> don't have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would >> be to give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:57:31 -0500 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Now, you just stop that, B-b-bob. If there's anything >> I can't stand, it's your agreeing with me. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly >> Black >> , **Obras >> P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >> Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones >> ; **Tango >> Bouquet >> ; **Theory of >> Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie >> espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >> Subway >> ; **The Sonnet >> Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; >> **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ; >> * >> *Transparencies & Projections >> >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> >>> How can we act as if we thought the Messiah were already here if we don't >>> have his e.mail address? The first thing I'd do if I had it would be to >>> give him a piece of my mind and tell him to get lost. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:01:49 -0400 >> From: Nic Sebastian >> To: New Poetry >> Subject: [New-Poetry] new Whale Sound audio chapbook - Fishwife by >> Jennifer Jean >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Announcing the new Whale Sound Audio Chapbook: 'Fishwife' by >> Jennifer Jean, with music by Sarah Eide and art by Jinju Fong - >> http://bit.ly/kpiNap. >> Published as usual in multiple formats - web-based text & audio, PDF, >> e-book, CD & print edition - some of which are free. >> Best, Nic >> Nic Sebastian >> >> Whale Sound >> >> Forever Will End on Thursday >> >> >> >> From: GrahamD at ripon.edu >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:06:21 -0500 >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a kind request for help >> >> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would just >> be another mainstream book, some might say.... >> >> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >> ===================David GrahamGrahamd at ripon.edu >> Home page:http://web.me.com/drjazz==================== >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: >> >> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculousconcept. I mean, change >> for the better? for the worse? >> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Justtoo vague for words. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> >> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other >> Sonnets; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini >> >> wrote: >> >> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >> >> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change after >> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will >> take >> place in September. The title, until now was/is >> >> >> >> 100 Thousand Poets for Change >> >> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like a >> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would >> like >> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything sensitive >> enough, >> >> >> >> does anybody have an idea? >> >> Please? >> >> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >> >> >> >> >> with wonderful contributions already. >> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >> >> Anny >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> >> >> >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:51:52 +0200 >> From: Anny Ballardini >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> Thanks Jerry for your kindest way of saying that nobody had a clue of what >> we were talking about, I will b/c you and we can see what we have to >> do/write/ *maybe to dream* >> ? >> I like the way you talk >> of letting the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) >> >> Care, Anny >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jerry McGuire >> wrote: >> >>> I've told you several times, Anny, that I've admired your editorial >>> efforts, and especially celebrate your generosity. You've included my >>> work >>> in several of your lovely anthologies whose most important organizational >>> principle was your own instinct for associative inclusiveness. So you >>> won't think I'm being just wrong-headed or smou all in agreeing with >>> others >>> that this particular anthology is seriously mis-, under, or over-defined. >>> It >>> sets itself up with the Agamben quotation, which mostly baffles me. It >>> shifts then (I think it's a shift, though it's set up as a logical >>> transition) to place itself "in the context of this split between 'the >>> end >>> of time' and 'the time of the end'"; its reference to Benjamin doesn't >>> help me understand how these theoretical pointers might help to position >>> the >>> works you want to include. There seem to be some ideological hobbyhorses >>> working below the surface of this. I generally prefer gifted ambiguity to >>> dumbed-down literalness, but Anny, the description seems to make large >>> claims on projected content without really opening up about what it >>> wants. >>> If "change as something more than an adjustment to the way social >>> relations are constructed" is the real issue (and this certainly would >>> resonate with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process?), then >>> you could just let the ideological cat(s) out of the bag(s) and, instead >>> of >>> saying what you don't want (i.e., anything _equal to or less than_ "the >>> way >>> social relations are constructed") you could frame that ideological >>> position >>> not in terms of what feels, to me, like Agamben's mystification, but in >>> terms of some more substantial (or graspable) politics. >>> >>> If I'm completely misreading your call for submissions, I apologize, >>> Anny, >>> but I don't think I'm alone here. Why don't you just do a little >>> back-channeling and see if you can clarify your aspirations? If people >>> understand those, they'll be more likely to send you fabulous stuff. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> On 5/27/2011 10:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >>> >>> Maybe Michael is looking for social change, at least the way I know >>> Rothenberg. Obododimma, might or might not see 'just social change.' I am >>> looking for personal change in the conviction that it will naturally lead >>> to >>> a broader way of thinking and of seeing the way we will have to shape our >>> days within a community. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Graham, David wrote: >>> >>>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's the >>>> concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all that >>>> stuff >>>> about the messianic and the end of time. >>>> >>>> =================== >>>> David Graham >>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here is >>>> our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally Michael >>>> - >>>> see it: >>>> >>>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>>> ROTHENBERG)* >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, >>>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben >>>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of >>>> history >>>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and >>>> redeem >>>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act >>>> as >>>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. >>>> What >>>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how >>>> radically >>>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one >>>> must >>>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the >>>> now >>>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If >>>> l >>>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the >>>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the >>>> time >>>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is >>>> one >>>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world >>>> and >>>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return >>>> our >>>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>>> >>>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time >>>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global >>>> writing >>>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to >>>> promote >>>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the >>>> United >>>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, >>>> one >>>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative >>>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way >>>> social >>>> relations are constructed. >>>> >>>> >>>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic >>>> compositions >>>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? >>>> Corner >>>> . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and >>>> photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the >>>> simple >>>> and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our >>>> Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by >>>> Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective >>>> interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. >>>> Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather >>>> like >>>> the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the >>>> audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist >>>> device >>>> was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, >>>> and >>>> we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our >>>> politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how >>>> we >>>> can change, revise history, start over again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be >>>> in >>>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> Obododimma Oha >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it would >>>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>>> >>>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>>> =================== >>>>> David Graham >>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>> >>>>> Home page: >>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>> ==================== >>>>> >>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>>> too vague for words. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>> --David Shields >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>> >>>>> *Mainly >>>>> Black >>>>> , **Obras >>>>> P?blicas >>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>>> Sonnets >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>>>> Clones >>>>> ; **Tango >>>>> Bouquet >>>>> ; **Theory of >>>>> Harmony >>>>> ; * >>>>> *Rapsodie >>>>> espagnole >>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>>>> Subway >>>>> ; **The Sonnet >>>>> Project >>>>> ; * >>>>> *G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>>> Journey ; >>>>> **Eclipse >>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>>>> Swan >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Transparencies & >>>>> Projections >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>>> >>>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>>> after >>>>>> Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening that will >>>>>> take >>>>>> place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>>> >>>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds like >>>>>> a >>>>>> [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore would >>>>>> like >>>>>> to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>>> sensitive >>>>>> enough, >>>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> Please? >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>>> >>>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Anny >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>>>>> dancing >>>>>> star! >>>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>>> >>>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>>> Giovenale >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing >>> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Prof. Jerry McGuire >>> Dept. of English >>> University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:14:27 -0700 >> From: James Cervantes >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> Lego my leg. >> >> - Jim >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Halvard Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> I thought we Play-doh. >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly >>> Black >>> , **Obras >>> P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>> Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>> Clones >>> ; **Tango >>> Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of >>> Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie >>> espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>> Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet >>> Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; >>> **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>> Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & >>> Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> :-) >>>> Nah, we Schopenhauer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 PM, James Cervantes < >>>> cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes We Kant >>>>> >>>>> - Jim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Millicent Borges Accardi >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 100Thousand >>>>>> Poets in Community >>>>>> >>>>>> A Gathering of Poets >>>>>> >>>>>> Time for a Change Through Poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> Give Poetry a Chance >>>>>> >>>>>> Consecutive Moments of Now >>>>>> >>>>>> Mindful Poets >>>>>> >>>>>> Posts Living in the Present >>>>>> >>>>>> The Be Here Now Poets >>>>>> >>>>>> Poets in the Now >>>>>> >>>>>> Poets Gathering Moment by Moment >>>>>> >>>>>> A Shift in the Universe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Graham, David >>>>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>>>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 8:32 am >>>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] ] a kind request for help >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess I'd suggest calling it "Poets for Social Change " if that's >>>>>> the concept, but my own philosophical powers still cannot unpack all >>>>>> that >>>>>> stuff about the messianic and the end of time. >>>>>> >>>>>> =================== >>>>>> David Graham >>>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> Home page: >>>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>>> ==================== >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 10:21 AM, "Anny Ballardini" < >>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I know you did not really think it was a great project, anyhow, here >>>>>> is our call, at least the way I, and later Obododimma, and finally >>>>>> Michael - >>>>>> see it: >>>>>> >>>>>> *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL >>>>>> ROTHENBERG)* >>>>>> >>>>>> ** >>>>>> "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this >>>>>> book, >>>>>> but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and >>>>>> Agamben >>>>>> employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of >>>>>> history >>>>>> is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and >>>>>> redeem >>>>>> humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we >>>>>> act >>>>>> as >>>>>> though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. >>>>>> What >>>>>> is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how >>>>>> radically >>>>>> it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to >>>>>> understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one >>>>>> must >>>>>> first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of >>>>>> the >>>>>> now >>>>>> from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, >>>>>> "If l >>>>>> had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that >>>>>> the >>>>>> messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the >>>>>> time >>>>>> of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is >>>>>> one >>>>>> that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote >>>>>> future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this >>>>>> world and >>>>>> in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a >>>>>> standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to >>>>>> return >>>>>> our >>>>>> gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." >>>>>> ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A >>>>>> Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) >>>>>> >>>>>> Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the >>>>>> time >>>>>> of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global >>>>>> writing >>>>>> public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to >>>>>> promote >>>>>> serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR >>>>>> CHANGE* on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep >>>>>> across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the >>>>>> United >>>>>> States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, >>>>>> one >>>>>> cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant >>>>>> creative >>>>>> response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way >>>>>> social >>>>>> relations are constructed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael >>>>>> Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic >>>>>> compositions >>>>>> for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? >>>>>> Corner . * Visual >>>>>> artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to >>>>>> be >>>>>> submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous >>>>>> statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time >>>>>> requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis >>>>>> Redmond >>>>>> in >>>>>> *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective interruption of >>>>>> a >>>>>> mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond >>>>>> continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the >>>>>> dramatic >>>>>> pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is >>>>>> waiting >>>>>> to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or >>>>>> not.? >>>>>> We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need >>>>>> of a >>>>>> Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make >>>>>> students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, >>>>>> revise >>>>>> history, start over again. >>>>>> >>>>>> Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG >>>>>> format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be >>>>>> in >>>>>> Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors >>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 >>>>>> with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>> Obododimma Oha >>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Graham, David < >>>>>> GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Poets Against Change"--now that would be something. Or else it >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> just be another mainstream book, some might say.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I confess I still don't understand the concept for this anthology. >>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>> David Graham >>>>>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Home page: >>>>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>>>> ==================== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 27, 2011, at 9:57 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>>>>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Must say that "Poets for Change" seems a ridiculous >>>>>>> concept. I mean, change for the better? for the worse? >>>>>>> Change occurs whether we're for it or against it. Just >>>>>>> too vague for words. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>>>> --David Shields >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Mainly >>>>>>> Black >>>>>>> , **Obras >>>>>>> P?blicas >>>>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>>>>> Sonnets >>>>>>> ;* >>>>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>>>>>> Clones >>>>>>> ; **Tango >>>>>>> Bouquet >>>>>>> ; **Theory of >>>>>>> Harmony >>>>>>> ; * >>>>>>> ***Rapsodie >>>>>>> espagnole >>>>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>>>>>> Subway >>>>>>> ; **The Sonnet >>>>>>> Project >>>>>>> ; * >>>>>>> ***G(e)nome ; >>>>>>> **Winter >>>>>>> Journey ; >>>>>>> **Eclipse >>>>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>>>>>> Swan >>>>>>> ;* >>>>>>> *Transparencies & >>>>>>> Projections >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Anny Ballardini >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Eminent Minds [I was writing Mond = Moon in German] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with Obododimma Oha we have been assembling an Anthology on Change >>>>>>>> after Michael Rothenberg's [homonymous] call for a great happening >>>>>>>> that will >>>>>>>> take place in September. The title, until now was/is >>>>>>>> *100 Thousand Poets for Change* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but Michael says that people have been telling him that it sounds >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> a [what was it, Obododimma] religious order/movement. We therefore >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> like to change the title right now but cannot come up with anything >>>>>>>> sensitive enough, >>>>>>>> does anybody have an idea? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is the link to the Anthology in the making: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=393 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with wonderful contributions already. >>>>>>>> Our best wishes, and a warm thank you, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anny >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>>>>>>> dancing star! >>>>>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>>>>> Giovenale >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>>> >>>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >>>>>> dancing >>>>>> star! >>>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>>> >>>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>>> Giovenale >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing >>>>>> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >>>>> >>>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>>>> >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>>>> >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>>>> >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:43:17 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] New Letters to a Young Poet >> Message-ID: <8CDEAB513CD2BCD-770-32B56 at webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> New Letters to a Young Poet >> Joan Margarit >> Translated and with an Afterword by Christopher Maurer >> http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/N/bo10380378.html >> >> University of Chicago Press >> Distributed for Swan Isle Press >> 120 pages | ? 2010 >> >> In these intimate pages, award-winning Catalan poet Joan Margarit offers a >> passionate defense of poetry and of the intelligible poem?the well-made >> text >> that can provide refuge, wisdom, and consolation. Inspired by Rilke's >> classic Letters to a Young Poet, this slender volume explores poetry as >> vocation, obsession, and partnership between writer and reader, a "road >> toward inner growth." For Margarit, poetry promises "a clarity that allows >> us mysteriously to live without the need to forget." This is essential >> reading for poets young and old, writers, and readers seeking insights >> into >> the creative process and "the way both poet and reader can find their own >> way to face solitude." >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:30:20 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] TMI >> Message-ID: <8CDEAE58F6A95B7-10A8-1C42E at Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 18:04:33 -0700 >> From: karen >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] TMI >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> I especially liked: "Bill Knott should be beaten with a flail." >> ?Tomaz Salamun, Snow, 1973 >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:30 PM, wrote: >>> http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> k >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 -0500 >> From: David Graham >> To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" >> >> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: <60ACF391-AAB8-4A10-A51F-C9AC9B5C829D at ripon.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:39:30 -0500 >> From: Beverly Rainbolt >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: <29D31EFE-CE49-41DC-BB99-55BBEC1D4C02 at gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> There used to be a band that played in New Orleans named Girl Scout Heron, >> which I thought was clever. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 9:23 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: <8CDEB0A93E504A8-DA8-5363D at webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd >> survived. >> Such a loss. >> >> Makes me sad. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Graham >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views >> >> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ew-Poetry mailing list >> ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 04:58:37 +0000 >> From: R Dillon >> To: >> Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: "Piss Christ" destroyed >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Serrano is quoted as saying that his Christian artworks intend to upbraid >> the commercialization of Christian iconography and religious practice. In >> particular, Serrano really disapproves of television evangelists hawking >> their tapes and geegaws. I am convinced now, more than ever, that my >> original intuitions and views on this artwork, and the others, was right. >> By immersing a Crucifix into a volume of his own urine, Serrano, >> personally, >> sought to bear witness to the deepest problem of Jesus' mission. Those >> who >> believe, as do the Christians who roughed up the guards, and destroyed the >> work, that sacrilege was Serrano's mission miss his point entirely. I >> cannot say what Nietzsche would opine (But it might have caused him to >> write >> another treatise about the epigram, "God is Dead.") had he the opportunity >> to view the "Piss Christ" and the extreme reaction to it by those who are, >> mistakenly, and, expectedly, offended, and by those, the anti-Christian >> ACLU type Radical Liberal >> s who are confirmed in their view that Serrano is a hero for debunking >> the >> fraud of Jesus, and with Robbespierre, Stalin and Che (and weird guys/gals >> on the Boulder Mall who wore Che t-shirts to the poetry readings) or, come >> to think of it, Bill Ayers, Bernadhine Dorhn (busy with the work of the >> destruction of the state of Israel and, of course, what's left of >> Christendom in the American school and legal system), or George Bernard >> Shaw >> and Bertrand Russell, who might laugh with glee as they toasted Serrano, a >> fellow genius, for, finally, debunking Chrisitianity with such brilliant >> panache. But, unfortunately for them, Serrano is a serious man, like his >> fellow artist and Christian, Salvador Dali, and the writer, Agatha >> Christie, >> and knows that the Lord will not be mocked. I have no doubt that Jesus, >> himself, would praise Serrano, and would remind the artist that he, Jesus, >> did not come among men to affirm their narrow minded predispositions, >> especiallly in matters of the in >> terpretation of his teachings. Jesus might have even come to Serrano in >> his artistic reveries and provided some inspirited concepts to enact. >> >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/18/andres-serrano-piss-christ-destroyed-christian-protesters >> >> >> >> http://www.speroforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7153 >> >> -- Shared using Google Toolbar >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 >> From: David Graham >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> Message-ID: <433BA07D-2922-437D-BA91-91393ACB0F44 at ripon.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >> >>> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >> >> ================================== >> >> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:41:16 +0200 >> From: Anny Ballardini >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> I would like to add that the pictures are indeed beautiful, as someone >> else >> has already commented. >> >> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 7:19 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >>> >>> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> >>> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:21:07 +0000 >> From: R Dillon >> To: >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my >> prose, except for Christ. >> >> >> >> From: grahamd at ripon.edu >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 >> To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >> >> ================================== >> >> >> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 18 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:42:30 +0000 >> From: almaginnes at aol.com >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: >> <648729412-1306575751-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1015686138- at b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> A damn shame. >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Graham >> Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:23:09 >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> &Views >> Reply-To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 19 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 06:20:19 -0500 >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott >> Message-ID: <4DE0DA73.4030402 at nut-n-but.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without >> having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his >> work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! >> >> I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of >> his poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views >> aren't mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 20 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 13:11:38 +0000 >> From: sheila black >> To: >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Me, too,Millicent... >> >> Sheo;a >> >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> From: millb at aol.com >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd >> survived. >> Such a loss. >> >> >> >> >> >> Makes me sad. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: David Graham >> >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views >> >> >> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm >> >> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> >> >> David Graham >> >> >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> Home Page: >> >> >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> >> >> >> >> Poetry Library: >> >> >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> >> >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 21 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 08:40:48 -0500 >> From: Connie Voisine >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate of West Hartford >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> dear all-- >> >> i have finally gotten around to reading this article and i'd like to >> say that jim finnegan is one of the folks who made my two years in >> connecticut wonderful for me poetically. through him i met some >> wonderful poets and had many evenings talking and thinking about >> poems. >> >> connie >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Anny Ballardini >> wrote: >>> I wish to congratulate James Finnegan officially. Simply deserved. >>> With my best, Anny >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:53 PM, James Cervantes >>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey, they're even quaking west of the Pecos. ?Congratulations, Mr. >>>> Finnegan. >>>> - Jim >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:51 AM, David Graham wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Uh, oh. ?I smell a power grab. . . . ?First West Hartford, next it'll >>>>> be >>>>> Parkville & Newington Junction. ?Soon enough Farmington, Avon, and >>>>> Unionville will fall. . . . ? Even Windsor Locks is not safe now. ? Is >>>>> there >>>>> nothing this man won't do in his quest for poetic world domination? >>>>> >>>>> Congratulations, Jim! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ======================================== >>>>> David Graham >>>>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>> >>>>> Home Page: >>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>>> >>>>> Poetry Library: >>>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>>>> ========================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 17, 2011, at 9:39 AM, David Weinstock wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.courant.com/community/west-hartford/hc-west-hartford-poet-0517-20110516,0,6868463.story >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >>>> >>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>>> >>>> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>>> >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>>> >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Connie Voisine >> Associate Professor of English >> New Mexico State University >> cvoisine at nmsu.edu >> 575-646-2027 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 22 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:34:10 -0700 >> From: carol dorf >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> I remember hearing him perform before the hiatus, and how exciting that >> combination of poetry and music was. It is so sad he died so young. >> >> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 6:11 AM, sheila black >> wrote: >> >>> Me, too,Millicent... >>> >>> Sheo;a >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> From: millb at aol.com >>> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:55:19 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >>> >>> >>> I saw this. So devastating. He seemed a miracle. It was that he'd >>> survived. >>> Such a loss. >>> >>> Makes me sad. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: David Graham >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views < >>> new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu> >>> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48 pm >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Gil Scott-Heron >>> >>> >>> http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/05/27/136731274/gil-scott-heron-poet-and-musician-has-died >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing >>> listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 23 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:58:47 -0400 >> From: Tad >> To: NewPoetry List >> Cc: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott >> Message-ID: <7F9E190F-1458-4D72-AAA4-43EC6E121A7D at gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Does it ever occur to you, Bob, that your opinions may be a little >> compromised by being applied, so often, to people you haven't read? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 28, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> Really strange. I always thought Knott was an arch-Wilshberian without >>> having seen much of his work. But the hyperWilshberians don't like his >>> work. What is really interesting to me is that they've noticed it! >>> >>> I was tempted to offer my help as an editor but after reading a few of >>> his >>> poems can't do it. The ones I read don't make sense. His views aren't >>> mine, either, but that wouldn't matter. >>> >>> --Bob >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 24 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 10:16:56 -0500 >> From: David Graham >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >> Message-ID: <898512F8-D7CC-487B-A644-70F8A8AD6F8C at ripon.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I have no cold water to throw at any honest seeker, but I do get itchy >> when >> told what Jesus thinks--unless it's Jesus Himself reporting. . . . >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On May 28, 2011, at 4:21 AM, R Dillon wrote: >> >>> I have no doubt that no one and nothing is perfect, especially me or my >>> prose, except for Christ. >>> >>> From: grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:19:12 -0500 >>> To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Piss Christ" destroyed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM, R Dillon wrote: >>> >>> I have no doubt that Jesus . . . >>> >>> ================================== >>> >>> "I am the doubter and the doubt. . . ." >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 25 >> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 15:38:47 +0000 >> From: R Dillon >> To: >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bill Knott >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> I remember Bill Knott from Cambridge (USA) back in 1974. He was published >> by Jim Randall of Pym/Randall Press. Used to come round the Grolier. The >> one thing about Knott that impressed me, or caused some alarm, depending >> upon the day, was his streetness. His white Levis, white shirt, were >> grimed. Bill Knott got hit hard by life, but kept coming back. That was >> then and look at him now. >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 36 >> ****************************************** >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37 > ****************************************** > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 30 11:00:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:00:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <4DE18D64.9020806@nut-n-but.net> References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE18D64.9020806@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE3B10E.7040400@nut-n-but.net> Halfway through it, I have to admit I was wrong about it. I thought it would be medicore--i.e., neither intelligent nor stupid--something written by someone with a "poentilligence quotient" around 120 for people of average pq. Instead, it seems to me by someone with a pq of 90 writing for people someone less intelligence about poetry. His chapter on "form" is especially stupid. Hal will love it. He argues, though he doesn't realize it, that there's no such thing as poetic form. Super relativism following Wittgenstein's discussion of the definition of "game," which Orr mentions several pages after I predicted he would (because mediocrities and submediocrities of his kind always do). But, hey, he mentions visual poetry on page 93, if only to tell us he's passing over mention of poems like George Herbert's "Easter Wings" because he can't mention everything. (He may actually know of one or two visual poems of later date.) But he's very easy to read, and an amiable guide to what he calls "modern poetry." The book is not entirely worthless. I expect to do a critique of it eventually. I'll support the opinions given above when I do. It may be a while, though: I'm off to the hospital for hip replacement Wednesday. Just wanted to annoy ol New-Poetry one last time before I did. --Bob From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon May 30 10:23:50 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 14:23:50 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <4DE3B10E.7040400@nut-n-but.net> References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <4DE18D64.9020806@nut-n-but.net>, <4DE3B10E.7040400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob Grumman, Good luck out there in the operating room. Try to remember what happened after they put you under. Keep your wits about you. Report back here with an update. RD > Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:00:30 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless > > Halfway through it, I have to admit I was wrong about it. I thought it > would be medicore--i.e., neither intelligent nor stupid--something > written by someone with a "poentilligence quotient" around 120 for > people of average pq. Instead, it seems to me by someone with a pq of > 90 writing for people someone less intelligence about poetry. His > chapter on "form" is especially stupid. Hal will love it. He argues, > though he doesn't realize it, that there's no such thing as poetic > form. Super relativism following Wittgenstein's discussion of the > definition of "game," which Orr mentions several pages after I predicted > he would (because mediocrities and submediocrities of his kind always do). > > But, hey, he mentions visual poetry on page 93, if only to tell us he's > passing over mention of poems like George Herbert's "Easter Wings" > because he can't mention everything. (He may actually know of one or > two visual poems of later date.) > > But he's very easy to read, and an amiable guide to what he calls > "modern poetry." The book is not entirely worthless. > > I expect to do a critique of it eventually. I'll support the opinions > given above when I do. It may be a while, though: I'm off to the > hospital for hip replacement Wednesday. Just wanted to annoy ol > New-Poetry one last time before I did. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon May 30 11:27:36 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:27:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> You've probably heard this from others. Everyone I know who's had hip replacement in recent years is overjoyed with the results. For most, given my friends' experience, recovery entails some discomfort or real pain for a couple of weeks, but very quickly, considering what's been done, you should be happily skipping around. Best of luck with it. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Grumman >Sent: May 30, 2011 11:00 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless > >Halfway through it, I have to admit I was wrong about it. I thought it >would be medicore--i.e., neither intelligent nor stupid--something >written by someone with a "poentilligence quotient" around 120 for >people of average pq. Instead, it seems to me by someone with a pq of >90 writing for people someone less intelligence about poetry. His >chapter on "form" is especially stupid. Hal will love it. He argues, >though he doesn't realize it, that there's no such thing as poetic >form. Super relativism following Wittgenstein's discussion of the >definition of "game," which Orr mentions several pages after I predicted >he would (because mediocrities and submediocrities of his kind always do). > >But, hey, he mentions visual poetry on page 93, if only to tell us he's >passing over mention of poems like George Herbert's "Easter Wings" >because he can't mention everything. (He may actually know of one or >two visual poems of later date.) > >But he's very easy to read, and an amiable guide to what he calls >"modern poetry." The book is not entirely worthless. > >I expect to do a critique of it eventually. I'll support the opinions >given above when I do. It may be a while, though: I'm off to the >hospital for hip replacement Wednesday. Just wanted to annoy ol >New-Poetry one last time before I did. > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 30 12:57:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:57:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: <2834047.1306622474554.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, <4DE18D64.9020806@nut-n-but.net>, <4DE3B10E.7040400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE3CC5D.2030001@nut-n-but.net> On 5/30/2011 9:23 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Bob Grumman, > > Good luck out there in the operating room. Try to remember what > happened after they put you under. Keep your wits about you. Report > back here with an update. > > RD . Thanks, Richard. I hope a computer with INternet access will be nearby and that I'll be able to use it. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 30 13:00:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 12:00:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> On 5/30/2011 10:27 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > You've probably heard this from others. Everyone I know who's had hip replacement in recent years is overjoyed with the results. For most, given my friends' experience, recovery entails some discomfort or real pain for a couple of weeks, but very quickly, considering what's been done, you should be happily skipping around. > > Best of luck with it. > > Mark . Thanks, Mark--but will I be able to play at Wimbledon again? Seriously, I'm feeling optimistic--I've also had good reports. Hope to be annoying people at New-Poetry soon! --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 30 12:50:49 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:50:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem for Memorial Day Message-ID: Garrison Keillor recited this one last night on his radio broadcast. The War in the Air For a saving grace, we didn't see our dead, Who rarely bothered coming home to die But simply stayed away out there In the clean war, the war in the air. Seldom the ghosts came back bearing their tales Of hitting the earth, the incompressible sea, But stayed up there in the relative wind, Shades fading in the mind, Who had no graves but only epitaphs Where never so many spoke for never so few: Per ardua, said the partisans of Mars, Per aspera, to the stars. That was the good war, the war we won As if there were no death, for goodness' sake, With the help of the losers we left out there In the air, in the empty air. --Howard Nemerov. War Stories: Poems About Long Ago and Now. U Chicago Press, 1987. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon May 30 13:16:13 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 13:16:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem for Memorial Day Message-ID: <14821241.1306775773702.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 31 06:25:10 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:25:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem for Memorial Day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a good poem. On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 6:50 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > Garrison Keillor recited this one last night on his radio broadcast. > > > *The War in the Air* > > For a saving grace, we didn't see our dead, > Who rarely bothered coming home to die > But simply stayed away out there > In the clean war, the war in the air. > > Seldom the ghosts came back bearing their tales > Of hitting the earth, the incompressible sea, > But stayed up there in the relative wind, > Shades fading in the mind, > > Who had no graves but only epitaphs > Where never so many spoke for never so few: > *Per ardua*, said the partisans of Mars, > *Per aspera*, to the stars. > > That was the good war, the war we won > As if there were no death, for goodness' sake, > With the help of the losers we left out there > In the air, in the empty air. > > --Howard Nemerov. *War Stories: Poems About Long Ago and Now.* U > Chicago Press, 1987. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 31 06:35:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:35:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: My best wishes, Bob, you will be Oh-So-Missed, although Mark is doing his best to pester us with his Enormous_Superior_Knowledge, do what they tell you to do but before doing it, do what you know is right, ! Some care from here, Anny On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/30/2011 10:27 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > >> You've probably heard this from others. Everyone I know who's had hip >> replacement in recent years is overjoyed with the results. For most, given >> my friends' experience, recovery entails some discomfort or real pain for a >> couple of weeks, but very quickly, considering what's been done, you should >> be happily skipping around. >> >> Best of luck with it. >> >> Mark >> > . > Thanks, Mark--but will I be able to play at Wimbledon again? > > Seriously, I'm feeling optimistic--I've also had good reports. Hope to be > annoying people at New-Poetry soon! --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 31 09:00:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:00:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE4E67B.1070306@nut-n-but.net> On 5/31/2011 5:35 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > My best wishes, Bob, you will be Oh-So-Missed, although Mark is doing > his best to pester us with his Enormous_Superior_Knowledge, > do what they tell you to do but before doing it, do what you know is > right, ! > Some care from here, > > Anny . Thanks, Anny. I'll do what they say, but lecture them on coming outside of Wilshberia once in a while. Robt. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 31 10:00:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 09:00:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> It's an infraverbal poem, not a visual poem: *Four Seasons Poem Number One Zillion Two* live love leve lve I think it may be my best poem ever! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Tue May 31 09:17:53 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 06:17:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] math poems Message-ID: I thought some of you might be interested in this take on the mathematical poem. Some of you are involved, as I have been, in cross-disciplinary activities. Carol Dorf merges science and poetry interests. An article on ?math anxiety? in today?s Washington POST reminded me of her poem ?The Fear of Math is the Fear? -- posted here . JoAnne Growney http://joannegrowney.com *______________* ** *Cheers,* *Carol * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue May 31 09:34:10 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 06:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Talking about Jesus with Little Richard Message-ID: <126152.32722.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> David Kirby's latest hit single -- Talking about Jesus with Little Richard ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"I am the beautiful Little Richard," says Little Richard as he limps to his piano, "and you can see that I am telling ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? you the truth" before kicking off with "Good Golly, Miss Molly" and going into "Blueberry Hill," alternating between ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? his own hits and standards by Ray Charles, Hank Williams, Bob Seger, and such lesser-knowns as fellow Specialty ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Records artist Larry Williams ("Bony Moronie") and, withal, creating "a dream" that is "a memory of the future," as Greil ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Marcus says in The Shape of Things to Come: Prophecy and the American Voice, quoting Steve Erickson's novel ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The Sea Came In at Midnight, though Marcus suggests replacing "a dream" with "an art." Good idea, Greil! ? ? ? ? ? ? ?That's the way art works for me, or at least good art. So what's bad art? I know, a memory of the past, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? i.e, a memory and nothing more, and you've already had plenty of those, right, reader? Little Richard only makes it ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to the end of a couple of songs uninterrupted by his own fizzy glee, biographical bits breaking through ("I was out ? ? ? ? ? ? ?there when there wasn't nobody!") as well as musical preferences ("Kanye West is so beautiful! And I like 50 Cent, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? but I'd rather have a dollah!"), ads for merchandise ("I'll sign posters after the show, but only the big ones!") and faith ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? testimonials ("Don't put a question mark where God has put a period!"). Also, who else but Little Richard ? ? ? ? ? ? ?can say, "I want a big fat white lady to get up on the stage and dance" and get away with it? ''A big fat juicy white lady? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? a juicy one, now! And a big fat juicy black lady, and a big fat Mexican lady, too"? Before the show, I'd been talking ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to Nancy, a registered nurse who has been to perhaps a dozen Little Richard shows in the last couple of years ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and is wearing a shiny red dress that causes her to "slither," she says, as, indeed, she slides out of her seat and nearly ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? onto the floor and gathers herself gamely and plops down again before starting perhaps her dozenth floorward slide ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? of the evening, though when the Architect of Rock 'n' Roll issues his summons for beef on the hoof, Nancy, whom ? ? ? ? ? ? ?any gentleman would describe as zaftig, takes off like a shot, and within seconds she's joined on stage by another twenty ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? women, most disappointingly slim, though, through the magic of rock, somehow they all turned plump and juicy ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? as they bopped and shook. Speaking of magic, the group that opens the show is called Falling Bones, a self-described ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"party band" that wisely plays covers of everyone from the day except Little Richard: Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Stones, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Johnny Cash. None of the musicians are spring chickens, but the front man repeatedly and, after a while, convincingly ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? points out that the drummer has just celebrated his eighty-third birthday, so I borrow Nancy's binoculars, and he doesn't look ? ? ? ? ? ? ?a day over seventy-nine to me. The Falling Bones also say if it hadn't been for Little Richard, there would be ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? no rock 'n' roll. Not true! It just wouldn't be as good. There's always somebody before anybody: John the Baptist ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? before Jesus, for example, and God the Father before both of them. I must be about my Father's beeswax, says Jesus, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and behold, "Jesus had a huge impact on Christianity," as the student wrote in his freshman paper. Speaking ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? of magic again, what is in the black bag that a band member sets down beside Little Richard's piano stool? Nancy has ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? noticed it during previous shows and guesses that it might be emergency medical supplies, which is reasonable, being ? ? ? ? ? ? ?as how Little Richard has limped out on crutches, though it turns out that the trouble is with his hip ("the pain never ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? leaves!"), so that, in his flowing tresses and spangled blue suit, he looks like a sea god who has been clipped by a passing ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? motorboat. Nor does he lack for acolytes, not to mention proselytes, apostles, and epigones, for even were there no star ? ? ? ? ? ? ?performer, the ten-piece Little Richard band puts on a show that would have the dead dancing, fat and juicy or not, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and its sound is big on guitars and saxes, so that it is loud but sweet, like World War III fought with candy howitzers. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "Long Tall Sally," "Slippin' and "Slidin'," "Jenny, Jenny," "Keep a Knockin'," "The Girl Can't Help It"?they keep ? ? ? ? ? ? ?coming, the hits, so that one might say, as Diderot said of Leibniz, who is best known for his work in philosophy ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? but who also contributed to the fields of chemistry, chronometry, geology, historiography, jurisprudence, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? linguistics, optics, physics, poetry, and political theory, that "when one ... compares one's own small talents ? ? ? ? ? ? ?with those of a Little Richard, one is tempted to throw away one's books and go die peacefully in the depths ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? of some dark corner." And setting aside for the moment that Diderot said this not of Little Richard at all, who, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to my knowledge, has contributed nothing to any of these fields, but of the aforementioned Leibniz, still, it is true ? ? ? ? ? ? ?that each of us owes God a death, as someone else says, and though we may be beautiful, even "old and beautiful," ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? as Little Richard describes himself when he engages yet again with what is clearly a favorite topic, still, as great Achilles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? says, "Fat sheep and oxen you can steal; cooking pots and golden-maned horses you can buy; but once it has left ? ? ? ? ? ? ?the circle of his teeth, the life of a man can be neither replaced, nor stolen, nor bought." All of us will die, some even "fall ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dead," as Little Richard says one of the sax players' mothers did just last week: "She fell dead!" he cries. "Imagine that, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? your own mama fallin' dead!" We all want to die in style, with flowers on the bed table and a scribe to take down ? ? ? ? ? ? ?our last words. But then we fall dead: we're making a blueberry pie for the people that love us so much ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and that we love so much, and they're in the other room reading newspapers and watching the game on TV, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? when, bam! There's a crash in the kitchen, and they come running in, and there you are in a welter of pie filling ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and Pyrex, your glasses knocked sixteen ways from Tuesday and your cotton house dress over your knees. They're grabbing ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? their cell phones now: "It's Big Mama," they're shouting, "she fell dead!" I figure the band members are my best shot ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? at solving the black bag mystery, so as I wait backstage for Little Richard to sign my poster and they leave ? ? ? ? ? ? ?the dressing room for the bus, I ask first the bass player: "Hey, what's in the black bag?" "Oh, my!" he replies ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and pats me on the shoulder. The trumpet player says, "Hundred dollar bills?I hope!" A sax player may come ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? closest to the truth when he says, "Aw, that's just his personal stuff." The security guy warns us not to take ? ? ? ? ? ? ?photos or touch the entertainer, but I do want to talk to him, at least, and I think of Jesus's words to his disciples ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? in Matthew 10:16, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and harmless as doves," and so, to be wise yet appear harmless, I say "Willie Ruth" over and over again to myself, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Willie Ruth Howard being Little Richard's cousin and someone I'd interviewed earlier this year, so that when ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I finally get up to the front of the line, instead of saying, ''I'm your biggest fan" or "you was out there when there ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? wasn't nobody!" or some similarly off-putting claptrap, I blurt out, "Willie Ruth loves you!" And Little Richard ? ? ? ? ? ? ?looks up wide-eyed and begins to speak, and this time I am reminded not of Matthew 10:16 but of 1 Kings 19, which says, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not ? ? ? ? ? ? ?in the earthquake: and after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? a still small voice," and it is with a still small voice that Little Richard says, "You know Bill?" which is what ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? she told me he calls her, and I say, "I do know Bill, Little Richard, and have sat with her in her apartment up in Macon, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Georgia, and even spoke with you when you called her on the phone that day," and Little Richard's face lights up ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and he says, "And you gave her some money!" and I say, "I did give her some money, Little Richard, because you ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? made me," and we chat for a while, and then he signs my poster, but before I go, he reaches out to me, and I stick out ? ? ? ? ? ? ?my hand, and the security guy steps up, and Little Richard says, "It's all right! It's okay!" and he takes my hand and pulls me ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? toward him, and just then I look over and see the black bag on a table. Up close, it looks a lot more ordinary than it had ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? before, as though it really does contain his personal stuff. But what would the personal stuff of Little Richard be like? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Does the black bag contain a wallet, a comb, a toothbrush? Or amulets and charms, things you'd expect to find ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? in the possession of Dr. Nobilio, the Macon "town prophet" Little Richard remembers from his youth and who terrified ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? his audiences with something he called the devil's child, the dried-up body of a baby with claw feet and horns? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Son House said Robert Johnson made a deal with the Lord of Night. Little Richard's too godly to have signed such ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? a compact, but how else explain songs that changed music permanently, a singer who has gone on for more than ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? fifty years and seems as young as yesterday? Just before he lets me go, probably forever, Little Richard pulls me ? ? ? ? ? ? ?close, and the last thing he says to me is, "Stay close to Jesus," and I say, "I will, Little Richard." Then afterwards, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I think, Aw, jeez! I've just promised Little Richard I'll stay close to Jesus! I mean, anybody can say they'll stay close ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to Jesus, but how many people have promised that to Little Richard? Talk about a responsibility. Though when I tell ? ? ? ? ? ? ?my son Ian, he says, "Dad, which is the greater responsibility, to promise Little Richard that you'll stay close to Jesus ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? or promise Jesus that you'll stay close to Little Richard?" and I think, having done the one, why not do the other? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jesus, this is my promise: I will stay close to Little Richard. Early in the morning, I will see his beauty. Late in the evening, ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I will know his love. When "the time going bad now," in the words of Macon meistersinger Otis Redding, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? when the Lord of Night holds out his claw to me, I shall not take it, and though I see the devil's child itself, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I shall not be afraid. Should I fall dead, let big fat juicy white ladies dance around me, and big fat black and Mexican ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ladies, too. And should I die in my bed, let him take me in his arms and let me say, as Keats said to his friend Severn, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "Severn?I mean, Little Richard?I?lift me up for I am dying?I shall die easy?don't be frightened?thank God ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? it has come." In the midnight hour, I will know him. When my life leaves the circle of my teeth, I will know. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?St. Augustine, October 20, 2007 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 31 10:17:48 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 09:17:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mark Weiss's *The Whole Island* reviewed Message-ID: <332A05C5-C6DA-45F3-B031-2D4C6C7C8C1F@ripon.edu> An excerpt: Modernism in the Contact Zone: Latin American Art and Poetry by Peter Ramos The Oxford Book of Latin American Poetry: A Bilingual Anthology The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry: A Bilingual Anthology from Pleiades, Winter 2011 ....... Both of these anthologies?with their young, aesthetically adventurous translators?should revitalize our interest in Latin American poetry, and by "our" I mean all of us in this country who read and write and/or merely enjoy poetry. Of course, those of us who happen to be Latino/a can feel a certain amount of pride and validation in the fact that the craft and traditions of poetry have such rich, varied, and influential histories in the countries of our relatives and ancestors. But by "our," I also mean English-speaking writers in general. Considering the history of poetic, cultural exchange and translation between these hemispheres?bi-directional and including poets like Whitman, Neruda, Langston Hughes, Nicol?s Guill?n, William Carlos Williams, C?sar Vallejo, James Wright, T.S. Eliot, and Octavio Paz, to name only a few?it would seem that taking up Latin American poetry, even for the nationalistic purpose of reinvigorating U.S. verse, would behoove poets practicing in this country. But these anthologies also demonstrate the extent to which translation can generate exciting innovations in poetic techniques and forms. The very strangeness and originality of Latin American poetry, as with all poetry in another language, a strangeness that good translations only bring into higher relief, should oblige us to return to and admire it. ..... Full review here: http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_ramos.php ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pleiades_win2011.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9710 bytes Desc: not available URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue May 31 10:35:37 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:35:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mark Weiss's *The Whole Island* reviewed Message-ID: <5276231.1306852538128.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 11:26:21 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:26:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] spoken word poet gunned down Message-ID: <8CDEDBE3AF2D5CF-1FC8-8E215@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/05/30/2011-05-30_spokenword_poet_willie_lee_bell_aka_will_da_real_one_gunned_down_in_front_of_mia.html?r=news A well-known and respected spoken word poet was gunned down early Sunday as he was closing up his Miami area coffee shop and poetry lounge, cops said. Willie Lee Bell Jr., 47, who performed as "Will Da Real One," was shot several times at around 12:40 a.m. in the parking lot of the Literary Caf? and Poetry Lounge in North Miami. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue May 31 12:03:43 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 18:03:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <4DE4E67B.1070306@nut-n-but.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4E67B.1070306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I apologize if I said something not correct against Mark. It was not my wish, the heat is devastating couple it with things to do and then you might have miswrtings as the one it seems I sent to the list. I still wish my best to Bob, Anny On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/31/2011 5:35 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> My best wishes, Bob, you will be Oh-So-Missed, although Mark is doing his >> best to pester us with his Enormous_Superior_Knowledge, >> do what they tell you to do but before doing it, do what you know is >> right, ! >> Some care from here, >> >> Anny >> > . > Thanks, Anny. I'll do what they say, but lecture them on coming outside of > Wilshberia once in a while. > > Robt. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 12:44:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:44:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Lure of Painted Poetry: Japanese and Korean Art Message-ID: <8CDEDC91FA08195-1FC8-8F563@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> http://www.hudsonhubtimes.com/news/article/5041470 The Cleveland Museum of Art presents The Lure of Painted Poetry: Japanese and Korean Art The exhibit, which can be seen through Aug. 28, offers a rare, in-depth comparison of the secular artistic achievements of Japan and Korea as reflected in the museum's renowned collections of Asian art. The Lure of Painted Poetry highlights Japanese and Korean artists' efforts to fuse the genres of visual art and poetry as they reinterpreted themes of classical Chinese poetry in a variety of visual media, including calligraphy, painting and decorative arts. The exhibition contains 80 objects from the museum's preeminent Asian collection, dating from the 14th to the 21st centuries. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 13:45:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:45:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Lure of Painted Poetry: Japanese and Korean Art In-Reply-To: <8CDEDC91FA08195-1FC8-8F563@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEDC91FA08195-1FC8-8F563@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEDD1A04925BF-1FC8-904D0@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> I don't often say 'I wish I lived in Cleveland', but this exhibit makes me want to. It also gives me an opportunity to suggest a book I've enjoyed over the years... The Three Perfections: Chinese Painting, Poetry & Calligraphy by Michael Sullivan http://www.amazon.com/Three-Perfections-Chinese-Painting-Calligraphy/dp/0807614521 Note: There is an early edition that has just black & white plates: The Braziller edition with the color plates is best. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, May 31, 2011 12:44 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] The Lure of Painted Poetry: Japanese and Korean Art http://www.hudsonhubtimes.com/news/article/5041470 The Cleveland Museum of Art presents The Lure of Painted Poetry: Japanese and Korean Art The exhibit, which can be seen through Aug. 28, offers a rare, in-depth comparison of the secular artistic achievements of Japan and Korea as reflected in the museum's renowned collections of Asian art. The Lure of Painted Poetry highlights Japanese and Korean artists' efforts to fuse the genres of visual art and poetry as they reinterpreted themes of classical Chinese poetry in a variety of visual media, including calligraphy, painting and decorative arts. The exhibition contains 80 objects from the museum's preeminent Asian collection, dating from the 14th to the 21st centuries. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 14:50:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:50:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Gallaher remembers when Message-ID: <8CDEDDACF43538B-1FC8-9122A@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Remember when we used to talk about Jorie Graham all the time? (We might be doing it again!) What was in the air back then: The Interactive Game Version http://jjgallaher.blogspot.com/2011/05/remember-when-we-used-to-talk-about.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue May 31 15:35:11 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 12:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <55854.77847.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> let me see if i understand this infraverbal poem. i'm counting vowels. i'm notice a missing vowel on lve. i'm missing something. perhaps it's genius ( it is after all above my head ), but where oh where is the beauty? is it a Vivaldi thing? & what's infraverbal? the world was much easier when people simply wrote sonnets. hope the hip replacement goes well, Bob. even i hate pain. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, May 31, 2011 10:00:59 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem It's an infraverbal poem, not a visual poem: Four Seasons Poem Number One Zillion Two live love leve lve I think it may be my best poem ever! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Tue May 31 16:26:33 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Brian Teare {upward arrow symbol} Message-ID: <25343.30027.qm@web45613.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Brian Teare {upward arrow symbol} Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Series ISBN 978-1-886350-22-9 36 pages, ltd edition of 400 saddle stapled, 2011 $7.00 http://www.pavementsaw.org/chapbook_pages/upwardsarrow.htm New chapbook from us by Brian Teare is now available called {upward arrow symbol}. Imagine one between the brackets. 36 pages, saddle stapled. limited edition of 400. His first book, The Room Where I Was Born, won the 2003 Brittingham Prize and the 2004 Thom Gunn Award for Gay Poetry. His second book, Sight Map, is out from University of California Press; his third, Pleasure, was published by Ahsahta Press. Price is $9 including shipping. Here are the first two groups of this chapbook length poem: To begin with the desire to begin without a title?like we spend our seconds slowly deciding a trail to take, the slower to adore more the rhetoric of a choice and lend logos to whim?s irrepressible stretchy syntax, the poem for a time both kinesis and mimesis, process and scene, body and world, our selves doubled, stationed between two possibilities continuous rather than discrete? ------------ Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 31 18:00:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:00:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: <55854.77847.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <55854.77847.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DE564F9.1060303@nut-n-but.net> On 5/31/2011 2:35 PM, stephen russell wrote: > let me see if i understand this in/fraverbal /poem. > i'm counting vowels. > i'm notice a missing vowel on lve. > i'm missing something. Infraverbal means inside the verbal. Think how what is going on inside these four words may have something to do with the four seasons. You may have a month or more before I'll be back to New-Poetry for further assistance if you need it. But thanks for telling me you didn't get it. Knowing that is valuable to me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue May 31 17:00:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:00:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: <4DE564F9.1060303@nut-n-but.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <55854.77847.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DE564F9.1060303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hey, B-b-ob, mend the hip. Don't hop before mending. We'll track the vowels. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 5/31/2011 2:35 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > let me see if i understand this in*fraverbal *poem. > i'm counting vowels. > i'm notice a missing vowel on lve. > > i'm missing something. > > > Infraverbal means inside the verbal. Think how what is going on inside > these four words may have something to do with the four seasons. You may > have a month or more before I'll be back to New-Poetry for further > assistance if you need it. But thanks for telling me you didn't get it. > Knowing that is valuable to me. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 31 18:52:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:52:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net><55854.77847.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DE564F9.1060303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DE57112.4060607@nut-n-but.net> On 5/31/2011 4:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hey, B-b-ob, mend the hip. > Don't hop before mending. > We'll track the vowels. > . Thanks, Hal. I was worried about them I won't be now! --Bo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 21:16:26 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:16:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dorothy Aldan and A New Folder Message-ID: <8CDEE10A99946D1-A48-4E735@webmail-d133.sysops.aol.com> https://jacket2.org/article/daisy-aldan-new-folder While many ?feminine marvelous and tough? voices could be found in The New American Poetry, there were, of course, only four women among forty-four poets in the anthology: Guest, Gleason, Levertov and Helen Adam. Guided by the eye of an experienced female editor, it?s not surprising that nearly one-third of A New Folder?s poets are women, and the same percentage holds true for its artists. Such opportunities seem unprecedented in the late fifties and early sixties: writers like Joyce Johnson and Hettie Jones have retrospectively documented the limited venues for creative expression open to women during this time, and even outside the literary counterculture, misogynistic norms held sway (New Poets of England and America, for example, contains just as few women as Allen?s anthology). In The New American Poetry?s bibliography, Aldan?s work with both Folder and A New Folder is given prominent placement, and in the intervening decades many of her selections have proven to be leading figures in twentieth century American culture. However, Aldan herself has tragically slipped into obscurity. {noticed on Silliman's Blog} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 31 21:19:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:19:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Corrected: Daisy Aldan and A New Folder In-Reply-To: <8CDEE10A99946D1-A48-4E735@webmail-d133.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEE10A99946D1-A48-4E735@webmail-d133.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEE11070C28D3-A48-4E820@webmail-d133.sysops.aol.com> https://jacket2.org/article/daisy-aldan-new-folder While many ?feminine marvelous and tough? voices could be found in The New American Poetry, there were, of course, only four women among forty-four poets in the anthology: Guest, Gleason, Levertov and Helen Adam. Guided by the eye of an experienced female editor, it?s not surprising that nearly one-third of A New Folder?s poets are women, and the same percentage holds true for its artists. Such opportunities seem unprecedented in the late fifties and early sixties: writers like Joyce Johnson and Hettie Jones have retrospectively documented the limited venues for creative expression open to women during this time, and even outside the literary counterculture, misogynistic norms held sway (New Poets of England and America, for example, contains just as few women as Allen?s anthology). In The New American Poetry?s bibliography, Aldan?s work with both Folder and A New Folder is given prominent placement, and in the intervening decades many of her selections have proven to be leading figures in twentieth century American culture. However, Aldan herself has tragically slipped into obscurity. {noticed on Silliman's Blog} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 31 22:23:59 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:23:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Karaoke Poems Message-ID: *Dangerous Karaoke Poems* I write them, you mouth them. They came out of your mouth, the bullet goes into your head. I sit, get fat, win prizes. You dead. *Peaceful Karaoke Poems* ** I can barely write them. They defy gravity despite years of moments. Butterflies drift from your mouth. Applause. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: