From tad at opus40.org Tue Mar 1 09:01:39 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 09:01:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> Message-ID: Why nitpick, instead of offering an openhearted tribute? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, > david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: > > I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He > was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic > handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. > > > > A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far > beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my > undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement > when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Tue Mar 1 10:01:19 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:01:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CDA638A773B9BD-1EE0-9E37@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> I can second Wilbur's kindness. He wrote me back a couple of times, as if he were a personal friend when I was working on an article and had asked him to answer a couple of questions. He could not have been any nicer or more gracious. He even apolgized for getting back to me later than expected because he'd been away on a holiday. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 6:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Why nitpick, instead of offering an openhearted tribute? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Tue Mar 1 10:06:48 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:06:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] new Whale Sound audio chapbook - 'Dark Refuge' by Edward Byrne Message-ID: ?Dark Refuge? by Edward Byrne - http://bit.ly/hladHX As usual with Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, the question we ask is: 'How do you like your poetry served?' You can read/listen to these lovely poems as online text or online audio; free downloadable MP3, PDF, or e-book, or - if you are the ?must have it in my hands? sort - you can purchase a print edition and/or a CD. Details at the site. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Mar 1 10:12:46 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:12:46 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: In a message dated 3/1/2011 8:01:51 AM Central Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: > > Why nitpick, instead of offering an openhearted tribute? > Say what? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Tue Mar 1 10:15:01 2011 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 09:15:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcement: Audio Chapbook from Whale Sound Message-ID: <4D6CB9150200006E00084EB8@gwdm1.valpo.edu> ?Dark Refuge? by Edward Byrne http://networkedblogs.com/eTqIn Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks is very happy to announce the publication of Dark Refuge, a chapbook of lovely lyrical poems discussing various aspects of autism. I have learned so much from working with Edward on these poems and would like to thank him most warmly for giving me the opportunity to work on and voice these poems, and Alex for inspiring them. They have touched me deeply. As usual with Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, the question we ask is: How do you like your poetry served? You can get these wonderful poems as online audio, online text; free downloadable MP3, PDF or e-book; or if you are the ?must have it in my hands? sort, you can purchase a print edition and/or a CD. -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Faculty Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/faculty/byrne.php Latest Book: http://www.turningpointbooks.com/byrne.html Personal Blog: http://www.edwardbyrnepoetry.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/ VPR Editor's Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Twitter: http://twitter.com/valpopoetry Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 14:51:31 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 11:51:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You Message-ID: "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Mar 1 15:48:24 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:48:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice Message-ID: http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:52:47 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:52:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will go through them all, please notice that there are several videos, enjoy, http://www.webofstories.com/play/14737 On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 4:12 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 3/1/2011 8:01:51 AM Central Standard Time, > tad at opus40.org writes: > > > Why nitpick, instead of offering an openhearted tribute? > > > Say what? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Mar 1 16:26:09 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:26:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sam -- not you -- I meant the nitpickers who were more concerned with arguing whether he was the greatest living poet. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I will go through them all, please notice that there are several videos, > enjoy, > > http://www.webofstories.com/play/14737 > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 4:12 PM, wrote: > >> In a message dated 3/1/2011 8:01:51 AM Central Standard Time, >> tad at opus40.org writes: >> >> >> Why nitpick, instead of offering an openhearted tribute? >> >> >> Say what? >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 21:54:38 2011 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 21:54:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> Message-ID: I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! Suzanne On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, > david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: > > I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He > was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic > handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. > > > > A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far > beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my > undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement > when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 00:41:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 06:41:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a good one, and here is my question, how can you "see" a sign monkey? On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to > stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card > games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go > beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey > fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." > > Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You" > at: > > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp > > -- > *Obododimma Oha* > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 04:09:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:09:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's the one to *Anny Ballardini*, who is she? :-) On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ > > March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards > > Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Mar 2 08:45:36 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:45:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Everyone knows who she is. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > There's the one to *Anny Ballardini*, who is she? :-) > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ >> >> March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards >> >> Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 09:14:40 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:14:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: la belle dame avec la piti?? ;-) On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Everyone knows who she is. > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> There's the one to *Anny Ballardini*, who is she? :-) >> >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >>> http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ >>> >>> March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards >>> >>> Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Mar 2 09:31:01 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:31:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice Message-ID: <52c29.5c0dfb1d.3a9faea5@cs.com> In a message dated 3/2/2011 7:45:53 AM Central Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: > March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards > Good stuff, but I would suggest "double-wide towns" for "Southern towns." Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Mar 2 12:05:35 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:05:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Memorial Service for Akilah Oliver Message-ID: <476773.29277.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Please join us in celebrating the life of Akilah Oliver Thursday, March 3, 2011 -- 6:00 pm Middle Collegiate Church 50 East 7th Street at Second Avenue New York, NY 10003 Subway: 6 to Astor Place Please bring an offering to place on the altar or to share with others From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 2 14:02:27 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:02:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: PoemTalk 41 released: on Ezra Pound's canto III In-Reply-To: <114780BB-8672-4795-A9B4-008C1ED9199B@writing.upenn.edu> References: <114780BB-8672-4795-A9B4-008C1ED9199B@writing.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8CDA72381C66BA3-140C-163E@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Al Filreis To: Al Filreis Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2011 8:49 pm Subject: PoemTalk 41 released: on Ezra Pound's canto III Today we have released episode 41 of PoemTalk ("PoemTalk at the Writers House"). It is a 29-minute discussion of Canto III of Ezra Pound by Richard Sieburth, Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Kaplan Harris. http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/ http://www.poetryfoundation.org/ PoemTalk is also available on iTunes. Just go to your iTunes music store and type "PoemTalk" in the searchbox. When Jacket2 launches soon, PoemTalk's home on the web will move to the new site of the magazine. - Al Filreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania on the web: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis blog: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/blog PoemTalk: http://www.poemtalk.org = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 2 14:42:39 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:42:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and art merge with math at Ringling College Message-ID: <8CDA7291F776890-1934-61467@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110220/ARTICLE/102201016/2055/NEWS?Title=Poetry-and-art-merge-with-math-at-Ringling-College Poetry and art merge with math at Ringling College By MADISON CHAPMAN Published: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 2:00 a.m. Math, art and poetry are coming together at Ringling College of Art and Design's Selby Gallery for an incredibly unique exhibition, titled "Rhythm of Structure: Mathematics, Art and Poetics Reflection." Curator John Sims is the former coordinator of mathematics at Ringling. The exhibit is the result of uniting a series of nine micro-shows from New York City's Bowery Poetry Club. A conceptual artist, Sims has come up with a bizarre yet intriguing idea of synthesizing numbers and operations with visual art, performances and dance, along with poetry set to flute music and the beat of a drum. / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 15:24:36 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:24:36 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and art merge with math at Ringling College In-Reply-To: <8CDA7291F776890-1934-61467@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDA7291F776890-1934-61467@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: It is a very interesting school; I taught at New College, down the street in Sarasota, and located on the actual grounds of the old Ringling estate, three years ago. I introduced DJ Spooky & performance art & Cage to my beginning CW course. Copycats. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:42 AM, wrote: > http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110220/ARTICLE/102201016/2055/NEWS?Title=Poetry-and-art-merge-with-math-at-Ringling-College > Poetry and art merge with math at Ringling College > By MADISON CHAPMAN > Published: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 2:00 a.m. > Math, art and poetry are coming together at Ringling College of Art and > Design's Selby Gallery for an incredibly unique exhibition, titled "Rhythm > of Structure: Mathematics, Art and Poetics Reflection." > > Curator John Sims is the former coordinator of mathematics at Ringling. The > exhibit is the result of uniting a series of nine micro-shows from New York > City's Bowery Poetry Club. A conceptual artist, Sims has come up with a > bizarre yet intriguing idea of synthesizing numbers and operations with > visual art, performances and dance, along with poetry set to flute music and > the beat of a drum. > > / > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Mar 2 15:42:08 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:42:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Chapbook Festival begins this evening! through March 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <854078.67374.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Ana Bo?i?evi? To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:27:34 PM Subject: Chapbook Festival begins this evening! through March 5 The Chapbook Festival begins tonight with an evening panel! Come tomorrow and Friday for the bookfair (12-7p), lunchtime and evening workshops and readings at The Graduate Center, CUNY, and attend events throughout the city on Saturday. The up-to-date schedule & venues are below. See you there, The Center for the Humanities Wed Mar 2?Sat Mar 5 Third Annual Chapbook Festival http://www.chapbookfestival.org The Festival celebrates the chapbook as a work of art and as a medium for alternative and emerging writers and publishers. Now in its third year, the festival features a two-day bookfair with chapbook publishers from around the country, panels, workshops, a reading of prize-winning Chapbook Fellows, and a roundtable and launch of Series II in Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Documents Initiative. The Festival is free and open to the public, though some events require advance registration, as indicated below. Wed Mar 2, 6:30pm Panel History of Art: Collaborations?Text/Form The Center for Book Arts, 28 W 27th St, 3rd fl Ed Go, Other Rooms Press;?Mary Walker Graham, Rope-a-Dope Press; Winnie Huang, artist;?MC Hyland, DoubleCross Press This panel discussion will focus on collaborations between visual artists and writers. The formal relationships between text and image on a book page are the product of a creative working relationship between artist and writer: join us to explore the many ways these kinds of partnerships can play out. This panel is part of an ongoing series at Center for Book Arts on the history of collaboration in book arts. organized by the Center for Book Arts Thu Mar 3?Fri Mar 4, Noon?7pm Book Fair Elebash Recital Hall Lobby, The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Ave at 34th Street Thu Mar 3, 1pm Workshop Nuts and Bolts for Publishers Elebash Recital Hall, The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Andrew Kenower, Trafficker;?Rachel Levitsky, Belladonna*;?Emily Pettit, Factory Hollow;?Anna Moschovakis, Ugly Duckling Presse This panel brings together experienced chapbook publishers to discuss how to create and run a chapbook press. organized by Poetry Society of America Free registration required. To attend workshops, please register by e-mailing?sstarkweather at gc.cuny.edu Thu Mar 3, 5pm Workshop Nuts and Bolts for Writers Elebash Recital Hall, The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Hossannah Asuncion, 2010 PSA Fellowship Chapbook Winner;?Mary Walker Graham, Rope-a-Dope;?Jen Hyde, Small Anchor;?Jean Hartig, Poets & Writers This panel will focus on the fine little books that can be produced by hand, from the quick-and-dirty to the fancy-and-giftable, with demonstrations by writers who publish themselves and others, as well as a discussion of how chapbooks can be used to promote work and build community. organized by Poets & Writers Free registration required. To attend workshops, please register by e-mailing?sstarkweather at gc.cuny.edu Thu Mar 3, 7pm Reading PSA Chapbook Fellowship Reading Elebash Recital Hall, The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Judges of the Poetry Society of America?s eighth annual Chapbook Fellowship introduce this year?s winners. Judges:?Cornelius Eady, Kimiko Hahn, James Tate, Rosanna Warren Winners:?Adam Day, Camille Rankine, Andrew Seguin, Hossannah Asuncion organized by Poetry Society of America Fri Mar 4, 1pm Workshop Pushing Boundaries of Form Elebash Recital Hall, The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Cara Benson, Dusie Kollektiv;?Nate Pritts, H_NGM_N Books;?Adam Robinson, Publishing Genius;?Felice Tebbe, Booklyn;?Mary Gannon, Poets & Writers This panel brings together a group of publishers that are especially innovative in their approach to chapbook publishing to discuss the books they produce, the way they distribute them to readers and everything in between. organized by Poets & Writers Free registration required. To attend workshops, please register by e-mailing?sstarkweather at gc.cuny.edu Fri Mar 4, 5pm Workshop Pushing Genre Boundaries of the Chapbook Room 9207, The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Jen Hyde, Small Anchor Press;?Pei-Ling Lue, One Story;?Jacqueline Waters, The Physiocrats. Moderated by?Kimiko Hahn, MFA Program, Queens College, CUNY Is the chapbook merely a charming medium for poetry? How is this perceived limitation changing and why? What can the chapbook do for fiction, nonfiction, and drama? Are the publications only for experimental texts? What about digital technologies? How are chapbooks expanding the definition of each genre as well as cross-genre expectations? Is the chapbook just a momentary stay against the brutal commercialization of the industry? Is it even charming? Who cares? Panelists will address these questions and speak about individual projects and visions. organized by the CUNY MFA Affiliation Group Free registration required. To attend workshops, please register by e-mailing?sstarkweather at gc.cuny.edu Fri Mar 4, 5:30pm Conversation and Book Launch Book People A Roundtable on Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative The Skylight Room (9100), The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave at 34th street Even in the digital age, the book occupies enormous cultural space and remains a central metaphor of many civilizations. How have poets in the 20th and 21st centuries honored and expanded this tradition? How are histories newly created from archival materials and what are the differences between personal and institutional archives? What are the roles of preservation and design in the transmission of culture? In this extraordinary gathering, hear the perspectives of poets, scholars, archivists, and book designers as they discuss these and other questions. Participants include?Ammiel Alcalay, poet, scholar, and founder of Lost & Found;?Steve Clay, archivist, scholar, and publisher, founder of Granary Books;?Megan Mangum, book designer and founder of Words that Work;?Anne Waldman, poet and co-founder, with Allen Ginsberg, of the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa University. Following the roundtable discussion, join us for a presentation and celebration with the editors of?Lost & Found, Series 2, with readings, video, and audio presentations of works by Diane di Prima, Robert Duncan, David Henderson, Margaret Randall, and Muriel Rukeyser. Special guest?Ken Irby, author of?The Intent On?(winner of the 2010 Shelley Award), will launch the series with the reading of a new poem that will be available as a broadside. Poet David Henderson will read. Sets of?Lost & Found, Series 2, will be available for purchase. Sat Mar 5, 10am?1pm Workshop Hands-on Book Arts Workshops for Writers The Center for Book Arts, 28 W 27th St, 3rd fl Join us for a hands-on immersion in bookmaking. Participants can choose to set their words in metal type, or try their hand at some basic binding structures. Registration required: (212) 481-0295 $20 material fee organized by the Center for Book Arts Sat Mar 5, 2pm Reading What the Chapbook Means to Me Poets House, 10 River Terrace Jen Bervin, Ugly Duckling Presse;?Anna Moschovakis, poet Visual artist and poet Jen Bervin and Ugly Duckling Presse editor and poet Anna Moschovakis discuss the way the chapbook has shaped their work, sharing highlights from their own collections and the Poets House archive. organized by Poets House Participating publishers: 2nd Ave Poetry Belladonna* Booklyn Creature Press Cy Gist Press DoubleCross Press Dusie Kollektiv Factory Hollow Press Forklift, Ohio Greying Ghost Press H_NGM_N Immaculate Disciples Press Love Among the Ruins Magic Helicopter Press Minutes Books Octopus Books One Story Pen Press Pilot Books Poinciana Paper Press Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs Publishing Genius Rope-a-Dope Press Slapering Hol Press Small Anchor Press Sona Books Supermachine The Corresponding Society The Physiocrats Toadlily Press Trafficker Press Ugly Duckling Presse X-ing Press/Agriculture Reader Visit the Festival on Facebook and see who?s coming! http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=140340109363705 co-sponsored by the Office of Academic Affairs, the Center for the Humanities, The Graduate Center, CUNY, the Center for Book Arts, CUNY MFA Affiliation Group, Poets House, Poetry Society of America, Poets & Writers The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Ave btwn 34th & 35th.?The building and the venues are fully accessible.?For more information please call 212/817.2005 or e-mail?ch at gc.cuny.edu. www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org ================================== From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 16:10:38 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:10:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Merci. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:14 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > la belle dame avec la piti?? > > ;-) > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Everyone knows who she is. >> >> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> There's the one to *Anny Ballardini*, who is she? :-) >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ >>>> >>>> March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards >>>> >>>> Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 2 18:31:50 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:31:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Train Wreck Poetry: Charlie Sheen's poetry Message-ID: <8CDA74924088D61-1240-4756@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/03/02/charlie-sheen-book-of-poetry/ Charlie Sheen's book of poetry: Putting the crazy to verse by Keith Staskiewicz Charlie Sheen is a wordsmith, at least that much is abundantly clear from the last few days of complete Sheen overload. Say what you will about his lifestyle, mental state, personal character, or general status as a human being, but quotes like ?I am battle-tested bayonets? and ?can?t is the cancer of happen? sound more like they erupted half-formed from the mind of William S. Burroughs than the former star of Two and a Half Men.* Well, it turns out that Sheen recognized his own bonkers lyricism and tried his hand at writing poems, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 19:52:05 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:52:05 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Watch the complete GV Doc-Series for Free on NetFlix.com In-Reply-To: <861882.214.qm@web82008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <861882.214.qm@web82008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is a series focusing on mostly, but not exclusively LA area poets, with a strong "performance poet" slant, in an interview format. I've been too shy to watch myself... Re: Watch the complete GV Doc-Series for Free on NetFlix.com BWP Press, Hollywood CA -- The most critically reviewed indie-produced Hip-Hop Documentary Series in America producers are *"Celebrating! "* *Watch the complete GV Series for Free on NetFlix.com* Hello Netflix Members, as an Indie Filmmaker I am honored to announce that as of today, March 1st 2011 the complete GV 1-11 Docu-Series are now available on *NetFlix.com*, as a *"Watch it Now"* Streaming feature. http://www.netflix.com/Search?v1=Graffiti+Verite *FREE GV DVD's* ** In celebration of this momentous achievement, those interested in owning a DVD of the GV Series can now obtain up to *five (5) FREE DVD's* of any of our multi award-winning Documentaries through this Sale opportunity. This is a *"Limited opportunity"* for all Hip-Hop Practicioners, Educators and Librarians. http://www.graffitiveOite.com/GVMar_1_thru_15_Sale.htm I hope that you can join us in our celebration and spread the joy. *"Watch it Now"* or own your DVDs. Have a great day! Loida Mariano The Official Graffiti Verite' Web site * The Graffiti Verite' Documentary Series is Now Available for Rental, Screening, Download, VOD & DVD Purchase at * *Hulu.com * - Graffiti Verite' : Read the Writing on the Wall *Amazon.com * - Graffiti Verite' Series *Netflix.com * - Graffiti Verite' Series* PayLoadz.com * - DownLoad the Graffiti Verite' Series* The Official Graffiti Verite' Website graffitiverite.com * __._,_.___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 03:56:29 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 00:56:29 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good question, Anny. Well, first be sure your eyes are "open." Funny answer, isn't it? It is difficult to "see" sign monkeys sometimes. But if you use the tail of your eyes, you can see that someone is looking at you in a special way, or has been following you. Sometimes the stalker pretends to be going in another direction. Just to deceive you. It pays to keep screening the crowd with the eyes inside your eyes, reading every move. Thanks for this important question. Obododimma. On Wednesday, March 2, 2011, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is? a good one, and here is my question, how can you "see" a sign monkey? > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." > > > Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You?" at: > > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics)Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 805 350 6604; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 808 264 8060. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From obodooha at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 04:01:26 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 01:01:26 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good question, Anny. Well, first be sure your eyes are "open." Funny answer, isn't it? It is difficult to "see" sign monkeys sometimes. But if you use the tail of your eyes, you can see that someone is looking at you in a special way, or has been following you. Sometimes the stalker pretends to be going in another direction. It pays to keep screening the crowd with the eyes inside your eyes, reading every move. Thanks for this important question. Obododimma. On Wednesday, March 2, 2011, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is? a good one, and here is my question, how can you "see" a sign monkey? > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." > > > Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You?" at: > > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics)Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 805 350 6604; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 808 264 8060. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From ciccariello at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 10:40:02 2011 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter ciccariello) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:40:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fascinating post Obododimma! I love the " the eyes inside your eyes", the thought of cultivating new ways of viewing or seeing the illusion. Best, - Peter Ciccariello -- http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/ http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/ You can find my art and writing updates on Twitter https://twitter.com/ciccariello On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > Good question, Anny. Well, first be sure your eyes are "open." Funny > answer, isn't it? It is difficult to "see" sign monkeys sometimes. But > if you use the tail of your eyes, you can see that someone is looking > at you in a special way, or has been following you. Sometimes the > stalker pretends to be going in another direction. It pays to keep > screening the crowd with the eyes inside your eyes, reading every > move. > Thanks for this important question. > Obododimma. > > On Wednesday, March 2, 2011, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > This is a good one, and here is my question, how can you "see" a sign > monkey? > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Obododimma Oha > wrote: > > "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to > stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card > games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go > beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey > fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." > > > > > > Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You < > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp>" > at: > > > > > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp > > > > > > -- > > Obododimma Oha > > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > > > (Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics)Dept. of English > > University of Ibadan > > Nigeria > > > > & > > > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > > University of Ibadan > > > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > > +234 805 350 6604; > > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > Giovenale > > > > > > > -- > *Obododimma Oha* > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Thu Mar 3 13:38:16 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:38:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Poetry Posts Message-ID: <20110303113816.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.cbd258c851.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 00:42:22 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:42:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] First book contest In-Reply-To: <5B99E0DAF64D4ADF8DDCCDFB3ADFE029@ReneePC> References: <5B99E0DAF64D4ADF8DDCCDFB3ADFE029@ReneePC> Message-ID: Please tell your friends and students! First Book Contest Sponsored?by the MFA in Creative Writing Program at Fairleigh Dickinson University and Serving House Books We?re looking for exceptional prose and poetry from writers who have not yet published full length books. There?s?NO ENTRY FEE, but there are some rules and regs.?? Please read carefully. * Prose entries may be novels, story collections, or works of creative nonfiction.? They should be between 40,000 and 75,000 words. * Poetry entries may be a collection of poems or a single long poem. They should be between 50 and 100 pages. * There is no entry fee. * Winners in each category will be invited to the FDU Madison campus for one week as a visiting writer to participate in the BA in Creative Writing program.? They also will give a public reading in New York City and receive 20 copies of the published book of their work. *All entries must be submitted in digital format as a Microsoft Word doc or docx or as an rtf file at: *http://fdumfacontest.submishmash.com/Submit. * Entries must be received by midnight April 1, 2011 and winners will be announced on June 1, 2011. * The winning entries will be selected by faculty members of the MFA in Creative Writing Program. And here are the caveats and disclaimers in the usual small print. * Current and former students, graduates, employees and faculty of Fairleigh Dickinson University may not participate. * If a winner is not a resident of the United States or Canada, an alternative to the campus visit and New York reading will be determined. * Work previously published in magazines, journals, or similar print or web outlets may be part of the entry manuscript with an indication of the publication source. * Authors of the winning entries are responsible for obtaining all appropriate permissions and releases. * The books selected will be copyrighted in the name of the authors. * The sponsors reserve the right not to select a winner in either category if a suitable entry cannot be found. * Serving House Books is a publication-on-demand publisher with all of its books available through Amazon.com and through major distributors. Certain works are also available on Kindle, iBooks, and Barnes & Noble in consultation with the author. From tad at opus40.org Fri Mar 4 03:09:39 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 03:09:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Medal of Arts And Humanities Recipients Message-ID: Wendell Berry and Donald Hall included. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 05:57:51 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 02:57:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Sign Monkey Is Watching You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good question, Anny. Well, first be sure your eyes are "open." Funny answer, isn't it? It is difficult to "see" sign monkeys sometimes. But if you use the tail of your eyes, you can see that someone is looking at you in a special way, or has been following you. Sometimes the stalker pretends to be going in another direction. It pays to keep screening the crowd with the eyes inside your eyes, reading every move. Thanks for this important question. Obododimma. On Wednesday, March 2, 2011, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is? a good one, and here is my question, how can you "see" a sign monkey? > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > "A common sign monkey strategy in some major cities in West Africa is to stage a public drama, in the form of a mock fight, auction sales, card games, and so on. Naturally, you would like to stop and watch, or maybe go beyond that to separate the fighters and broker peace. Good. Sign monkey fighters are looking for peace loving fools to separate them." > > > Read the full text of "A Sign Monkey Is Watching You?" at: > > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5680619-182/story.csp > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics)Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 805 350 6604; > ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 808 264 8060. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Fri Mar 4 08:19:05 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:19:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> Message-ID: <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular lines from them. www.mikesnider.org On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: > I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. > > Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! > > Suzanne > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. > > > A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 4 10:01:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 10:01:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph Brodsky: A Literary Life, Message-ID: <8CDA8942F18BC3F-14E4-3885@webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/joseph-brodsky-a-literary-life-by-lev-loseff-trans-jane-ann-miller-2231210.html# Joseph Brodsky: A Literary Life, By Lev Loseff, trans. Jane Ann Miller Reviewed by Carol Rumens Friday, 4 March 2011 Joseph Brodsky's observation that what he liked about life in the US was "being left alone to do what I can do" is faintly reminiscent of Philip Larkin's commendation of Hull as "a town that lets you write." In fact, the free-range Russian exile and the travel-shy Englishman share several affinities, including jazz. Lev Loseff records Brodsky's early poetic attempts at creating an effect of improvisation: "I'm a son of the outskirts, the outskirts, the outskirts,/ in a wire cradle, dank hallways, are my door and my address,/ streetcars clanking, rattle bang ring, stone sidewalks, soles,/ girls lined against painted wood fences,/ grassy banks, oil spot/ factory lights" ("Russian Gothic"). Brodsky (unlike Larkin) was cavalier about "the toad, work". He dropped out of school at 15, and hopped from menial job to job before being charged with "parasitism" and despatched to a labour camp near Archangelsk. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 4 09:55:00 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 06:55:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] First book contest In-Reply-To: References: <5B99E0DAF64D4ADF8DDCCDFB3ADFE029@ReneePC> Message-ID: <17723.20237.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> No entry fee! Standing ovation ... ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 12:42:22 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] First book contest Please tell your friends and students! First Book Contest Sponsored?by the MFA in Creative Writing Program at Fairleigh Dickinson University and Serving House Books We?re looking for exceptional prose and poetry from writers who have not yet published full length books. There?s?NO ENTRY FEE, but there are some rules and regs.?? Please read carefully. * Prose entries may be novels, story collections, or works of creative nonfiction.? They should be between 40,000 and 75,000 words. * Poetry entries may be a collection of poems or a single long poem. They should be between 50 and 100 pages. * There is no entry fee. * Winners in each category will be invited to the FDU Madison campus for one week as a visiting writer to participate in the BA in Creative Writing program.? They also will give a public reading in New York City and receive 20 copies of the published book of their work. *All entries must be submitted in digital format as a Microsoft Word doc or docx or as an rtf file at: *http://fdumfacontest.submishmash.com/Submit. * Entries must be received by midnight April 1, 2011 and winners will be announced on June 1, 2011. * The winning entries will be selected by faculty members of the MFA in Creative Writing Program. And here are the caveats and disclaimers in the usual small print. * Current and former students, graduates, employees and faculty of Fairleigh Dickinson University may not participate. * If a winner is not a resident of the United States or Canada, an alternative to the campus visit and New York reading will be determined. * Work previously published in magazines, journals, or similar print or web outlets may be part of the entry manuscript with an indication of the publication source. * Authors of the winning entries are responsible for obtaining all appropriate permissions and releases. * The books selected will be copyrighted in the name of the authors. * The sponsors reserve the right not to select a winner in either category if a suitable entry cannot be found. * Serving House Books is a publication-on-demand publisher with all of its books available through Amazon.com and through major distributors. Certain works are also available on Kindle, iBooks, and Barnes & Noble in consultation with the author. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Mar 4 10:31:09 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:31:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: That really does take a special person. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: > A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is > worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a > handful of the greatest American poets. > > My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his > opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He > not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks > he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, > citing particular lines from them. > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns > wrote: > > I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started > corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and > talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me > back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always > appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. > > Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! > > Suzanne > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, < Rsgwynn1 at cs.com>wrote: > >> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, >> david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >> >> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >> >> >> >> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far >> beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my >> undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement >> when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 4 10:42:07 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:42:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Wilbur has a beautiful touch.?He's?certainly among the most highly skilled?living ( 90! ) poets. ?Still, I agree with Simic:?Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) . Is?Wilbur a ?major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon )?before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more difficult subjects. ________________________________ From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 That really does take a special person. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. > > >My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his >opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not >only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent >her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing >particular lines from them. > >www.mikesnider.org > >On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: > > >I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started >corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking >about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with >comments on my poems, and took me seriously.? I have always appreciated that.? >He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >> >>Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >> >>Suzanne >> >> >>On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >> >>In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, >>david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >> >>> >>>I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>>was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>>handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >> >>A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond >>indeed).? I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my >>undergraduate days.? He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when >>there was not a lot to encourage.? God bless him. >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Mar 4 10:51:03 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:51:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3@ripon.edu> What's a difficult subject? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: > Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) > . > Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. > Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more difficult subjects. > > From: Tad Richards > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 > > That really does take a special person. > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: > A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. > > My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular lines from them. > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: > >> I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >> >> Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >> >> Suzanne >> >> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >> >> >> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 4 11:29:52 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:29:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Today's Historymaker: June Jordan Message-ID: <8CDA8A086108834-14E4-5153@webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> http://bed-stuy.patch.com/articles/todays-historymaker-june-jordan Today's Historymaker: June Jordan One of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation February 15, 2011: Poet, playwright and essayist June Jordan was one of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation. Born July 9, 1936, in Harlem, New York, and raised in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, Jordan?s future was shaped, for better and for worse, by her relationship with her father. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Fri Mar 4 12:05:56 2011 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:05:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you for your thoughts on ANthony Hecht. When I studied with Marilyn Hacker up at City College she presented Hecht;s poems to help us "learn" forms. His poems smite/smoke! Then he died and is rarely talked of these days. No matter how gifted Jewish and Holocaust poets are not real popular at this time. And Hecht needs to be read, and read again. Patricia Brody On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:00 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (Graham, David) > 2. Today's Historymaker: June Jordan (jforjames at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:51:03 -0600 > From: "Graham, David" > To: "NewPoetry List" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 > Message-ID: <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3 at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > What's a difficult subject? > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: > >> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) >> . >> Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. >> Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more difficult subjects. >> >> From: Tad Richards >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >> >> That really does take a special person. >> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: >> A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. >> >> My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular lines from them. >> >> www.mikesnider.org >> >> On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: >> >>> I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >>> >>> Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >>> >>> Suzanne >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >>> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>>> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >>> >>> >>> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:29:52 -0500 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Today's Historymaker: June Jordan > Message-ID: <8CDA8A086108834-14E4-5153 at webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > http://bed-stuy.patch.com/articles/todays-historymaker-june-jordan > > Today's Historymaker: June Jordan > > One of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation > > February 15, 2011: Poet, playwright and essayist June Jordan was one of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation. > > Born July 9, 1936, in Harlem, New York, and raised in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, Jordan?s future was shaped, for better and for worse, by her relationship with her father. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 > **************************************** From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Mar 4 12:11:09 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:11:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <25ea.b74d9f3.3aa2772d@cs.com> In a message dated 3/4/2011 9:50:58 AM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > > > What's a difficult subject? > > He certainly doesn't do much with personal subjects, and when he does they are generally affirmative ones. There have been some painful ones that he's discussed in interviews, including a serious problem with addiction, but he hasn't made poems about them except very indirectly. I think he feels that, in general, he has been very lucky in his life; the poem "A Ride" is about that. A couple of years ago we had a conversation about our brothers, both of whom had recently died. Dick's brother was in a VA mental ward for over 60 years (the title story of Ellen Wilbur's short story collection is, I assume, about him). He said, "Near the end of his life he kept talking about moving to California and becoming a tennis instructor. This was a man who had had no life whatsoever." Very sad. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Mar 4 12:53:07 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:53:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D712703.2080201@louisiana.edu> I always think of Muriel Spark's Miss Brodie at times like this: "For those who like that sort of thing . . . that is the sort of thing they like." I took Wilbur's workshop at Wesleyan in the early 70s. It was full of bright, over-praised, mostly privileged barefoot and bra-less kids in flannel and denim who mostly thought of the tweedy, smooth-faced guy at the head of the table as a quaint figure of ancient mythology, with his impossibly cultured voice (the rule: the student would read his/her own poem aloud, and then Wilbur would follow with his own reading: truly hilarious, sometimes) and anachronistic decorum. I remember the poems in that workshop as fairly representative of the kinds of poems kids were writing all over the country at the time--mostly free verse, mostly (roughly) confessional, often aggressively political; Wilbur, despite his distance from all that, never blinked. Nor, to my recollection, did he judge inordinately. Like David Weinstock, who also took the workshop around that time, I recall his meticulous comments (though unlike David, I still have all my copies of those). I wonder now, after years of teaching such workshops, how much of a labor it must have been for him to wade through all that unmediated excess--he himself was nothing if not mediated, controlled, decorous. What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his generosity to people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were enormously different from his own. (How I wish this were a more widespread feature among the people I've known since!) On the several occasions I contacted him after that, he was every bit as friendly, open, and helpful as others here have suggested. One more brief moment: a few years later, at Buffalo, somehow Wilbur showed up to give a reading, though (except maybe for Al Cook and me) I doubt he had a friend in sight. Listening from high up in the auditorium, it was clearly poetry from another place and time; and Wilbur's reserve was such that I've never been able to guess whether he was in any way _conscious_ of the extent to which those quatrains and measured, balanced stanzas _crazed_ many of the people there, baffled and even angered them. At one point he made a seemingly offhand comment about Kerouac (Wilbur, it seemed, had also spent some time hitchhiking in his younger days); Bob Creeley, far in the back of the hall, got up and left (whether in a huff or because of another engagement, I don't even want to conjecture), his posse at his heels. I'll treasure my acquaintance with Creeley as long as I live, and no doubt my own writing found a much more congenial grounding in Buffalo's poetics than in anything Wilbur had to teach me; but I'm willing to bet that, if the situation were reversed, Wilbur would have sat there, genially noncommittal, right through to the end. I'm very happy to hear of his 90th--if you should somehow see this, Dick, happy birthday! As for his tackling difficult things, I have two things to say: first, that (to my ear) he worked out elegant formal interrogations of _intricate_ things, intricate problems. Second, I'd cite that other fine American poet, Senor Wences: "Easy for you, difficult for me." Best, Jerry stephen russell wrote: > Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly > skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur > simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) > . > Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the > visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon > ) before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did > manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. > Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance > from his more difficult subjects. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Tad Richards > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 > > That really does take a special person. > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider > wrote: > > A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my > opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our > language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. > > My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write > imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him > one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book > for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class > a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular > lines from them. > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns > > > wrote: > >> I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I >> started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him >> my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own >> magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, >> and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a >> very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >> >> Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >> >> Suzanne >> >> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, > > wrote: >> >> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard >> Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com >> writes: >>> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term >>> 1973. He >>> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic >>> italic >>> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >> >> >> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is >> pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with >> him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has >> always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was >> not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 13:23:26 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 19:23:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph Brodsky: A Literary Life, In-Reply-To: <8CDA8942F18BC3F-14E4-3885@webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDA8942F18BC3F-14E4-3885@webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Carol Rumens, a wonderful voice. I feature her on the Corner. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:01 PM, wrote: > > http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/joseph-brodsky-a-literary-life-by-lev-loseff-trans-jane-ann-miller-2231210.html > # > Joseph Brodsky: A Literary Life, By Lev Loseff, trans. Jane Ann Miller > Reviewed by Carol Rumens > > Friday, 4 March 2011 > Joseph Brodsky's observation that what he liked about life in the US was > "being left alone to do what I can do" is faintly reminiscent of Philip > Larkin's commendation of Hull as "a town that lets you write." In fact, the > free-range Russian exile and the travel-shy Englishman share several > affinities, including jazz. Lev Loseff records Brodsky's early poetic > attempts at creating an effect of improvisation: "I'm a son of the > outskirts, the outskirts, the outskirts,/ in a wire cradle, dank hallways, > are my door and my address,/ streetcars clanking, rattle bang ring, stone > sidewalks, soles,/ girls lined against painted wood fences,/ grassy banks, > oil spot/ factory lights" ("Russian Gothic"). > > Brodsky (unlike Larkin) was cavalier about "the toad, work". He dropped out > of school at 15, and hopped from menial job to job before being charged with > "parasitism" and despatched to a labour camp near Archangelsk. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 13:52:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 19:52:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <4D712703.2080201@louisiana.edu> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D712703.2080201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: This is a good comment. I would like to highlight the following: What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his generosity to people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were enormously different from his own. (How I wish this were a more widespread feature among the people I've known since!) On the several occasions I contacted him after that, he was every bit as friendly, open, and helpful as others here have suggested. I could write this about my father. Probably, the attitude of some people who commented on Wilbur was dictated by a generational gap they have not been able to fill in, yet. And I am sorry for him because he had to face those kids, as much as I am sorry for my father who had to face me. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I always think of Muriel Spark's Miss Brodie at times like this: "For those > who like that sort of thing . . . that is the sort of thing they like." I > took Wilbur's workshop at Wesleyan in the early 70s. It was full of bright, > over-praised, mostly privileged barefoot and bra-less kids in flannel and > denim who mostly thought of the tweedy, smooth-faced guy at the head of the > table as a quaint figure of ancient mythology, with his impossibly cultured > voice (the rule: the student would read his/her own poem aloud, and then > Wilbur would follow with his own reading: truly hilarious, sometimes) and > anachronistic decorum. I remember the poems in that workshop as fairly > representative of the kinds of poems kids were writing all over the country > at the time--mostly free verse, mostly (roughly) confessional, often > aggressively political; Wilbur, despite his distance from all that, never > blinked. Nor, to my recollection, did he judge inordinately. Like David > Weinstock, who also took the workshop around that time, I recall his > meticulous comments (though unlike David, I still have all my copies of > those). I wonder now, after years of teaching such workshops, how much of a > labor it must have been for him to wade through all that unmediated > excess--he himself was nothing if not mediated, controlled, decorous. What > lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his generosity to people > whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were enormously different > from his own. (How I wish this were a more widespread feature among the > people I've known since!) On the several occasions I contacted him after > that, he was every bit as friendly, open, and helpful as others here have > suggested. > > One more brief moment: a few years later, at Buffalo, somehow Wilbur showed > up to give a reading, though (except maybe for Al Cook and me) I doubt he > had a friend in sight. Listening from high up in the auditorium, it was > clearly poetry from another place and time; and Wilbur's reserve was such > that I've never been able to guess whether he was in any way _conscious_ of > the extent to which those quatrains and measured, balanced stanzas _crazed_ > many of the people there, baffled and even angered them. At one point he > made a seemingly offhand comment about Kerouac (Wilbur, it seemed, had also > spent some time hitchhiking in his younger days); Bob Creeley, far in the > back of the hall, got up and left (whether in a huff or because of another > engagement, I don't even want to conjecture), his posse at his heels. I'll > treasure my acquaintance with Creeley as long as I live, and no doubt my own > writing found a much more congenial grounding in Buffalo's poetics than in > anything Wilbur had to teach me; but I'm willing to bet that, if the > situation were reversed, Wilbur would have sat there, genially noncommittal, > right through to the end. > > I'm very happy to hear of his 90th--if you should somehow see this, Dick, > happy birthday! As for his tackling difficult things, I have two things to > say: first, that (to my ear) he worked out elegant formal interrogations of > _intricate_ things, intricate problems. Second, I'd cite that other fine > American poet, Senor Wences: "Easy for you, difficult for me." > > Best, > > Jerry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 4 14:03:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 14:03:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What became of Wystan Message-ID: <8CDA8B5F4F3FBC8-1C70-856C@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2011/02/auden-poetry-american-age The Age of Auden: Postwar Poetry and the American Scene By Aidan Wasley Reviewed by Jeremy Noel-Tod - 03 March 2011 What became of Wystan In June 1940, a question was asked in the House of Commons about W H Auden's departure for America the previous year. Would the 33-year-old poet be summoned back for wartime service? The minister who responded managed to get his famous young men confused, and replied that H W Austin, the tennis player, had promised to return if called. The poet, however, had not, and did not return. What Auden was trying to escape when he crossed the Atlantic was his English fame. After a decade in which he had defined the avant-garde poetics and left-wing politics of a generation, he feared the compromises of official war culture. Entering middle age in the United States, he became a different poet - more conversational, more philosophical, more formally conservative and more openly homosexual. It is also generally agreed that his poetry became less interesting. Philip Larkin, an ardent admirer in the 1930s, asked of the later work, "What's become of Wystan?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 4 14:16:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 14:16:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <25ea.b74d9f3.3aa2772d@cs.com> References: <25ea.b74d9f3.3aa2772d@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CDA8B7DB93947F-1C70-8934@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> This is a difficult subject in the sense that there are many ways the poem may have gone wrong. Finnegan On the Eyes of an SS Officer I think of Amundsen, enormously bit By arch-dark flurries on the ice plateaus, An amorist of violent virgin snows At the cold end of the world's spit. Or a Bombay saint asquat in the market place, Eyes gone from staring the sun over the sky, Who still dead-reckons that acetylene eye, An eclipsed mind in a blind face. But this one's iced or ashen eyes devise, Foul purities, in flesh their wilderness, Their fire; I ask my makeshift God of this My opulent bric-a-brac earth to damn his eyes. Richard Wilbur -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Mar 4 14:22:07 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:22:07 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <4f0bf.38f975f7.3aa295df@cs.com> In a message dated 3/4/2011 1:17:20 PM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > This is a difficult subject in the sense that there are many ways the poem > may have gone wrong. > Finnegan > > On the Eyes of an SS Officer > > > I think of Amundsen, enormously bit > By arch-dark flurries on the ice plateaus, > An amorist of violent virgin snows > At the cold end of the world's spit. > > Or a Bombay saint asquat in the market place, > Eyes gone from staring the sun over the sky, > Who still dead-reckons that acetylene eye, > An eclipsed mind in a blind face. > > But this one's iced or ashen eyes devise, > Foul purities, in flesh their wilderness, > Their fire; I ask my makeshift God of this > My opulent bric-a-brac earth to damn his eyes. > > > Richard Wilbur > > -- > "iced or ashen eyes devise"--remarkable. I expect Wilbur knew from Frost the story about his exchange of quips with Steven--"opulent bric-a-brac earth." Wilbur admired both poets greatly. Still does. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Mar 4 14:23:20 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:23:20 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <4f1d9.181e7933.3aa29628@cs.com> In a message dated 3/4/2011 11:53:34 AM Central Standard Time, jlm8047 at louisiana.edu writes: > > I always think of Muriel Spark's Miss Brodie at times like this: "For > those who like that sort of thing . . . that is the sort of thing they > like." I took Wilbur's workshop at Wesleyan in the early 70s. It was > full of bright, over-praised, mostly privileged barefoot and bra-less > kids in flannel and denim who mostly thought of the tweedy, smooth-faced > guy at the head of the table as a quaint figure of ancient mythology, > with his impossibly cultured voice (the rule: the student would read > his/her own poem aloud, and then Wilbur would follow with his own > reading: truly hilarious, sometimes) and anachronistic decorum. I > remember the poems in that workshop as fairly representative of the > kinds of poems kids were writing all over the country at the > time--mostly free verse, mostly (roughly) confessional, often > aggressively political; Wilbur, despite his distance from all that, > never blinked. Nor, to my recollection, did he judge inordinately. Like > David Weinstock, who also took the workshop around that time, I recall > his meticulous comments (though unlike David, I still have all my copies > of those). I wonder now, after years of teaching such workshops, how > much of a labor it must have been for him to wade through all that > unmediated excess--he himself was nothing if not mediated, controlled, > decorous. What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his > generosity to people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were > enormously different from his own. (How I wish this were a more > widespread feature among the people I've known since!) On the several > occasions I contacted him after that, he was every bit as friendly, > open, and helpful as others here have suggested. > > One more brief moment: a few years later, at Buffalo, somehow Wilbur > showed up to give a reading, though (except maybe for Al Cook and me) I > doubt he had a friend in sight. Listening from high up in the > auditorium, it was clearly poetry from another place and time; and > Wilbur's reserve was such that I've never been able to guess whether he > was in any way _conscious_ of the extent to which those quatrains and > measured, balanced stanzas _crazed_ many of the people there, baffled > and even angered them. At one point he made a seemingly offhand comment > about Kerouac (Wilbur, it seemed, had also spent some time hitchhiking > in his younger days); Bob Creeley, far in the back of the hall, got up > and left (whether in a huff or because of another engagement, I don't > even want to conjecture), his posse at his heels. I'll treasure my > acquaintance with Creeley as long as I live, and no doubt my own writing > found a much more congenial grounding in Buffalo's poetics than in > anything Wilbur had to teach me; but I'm willing to bet that, if the > situation were reversed, Wilbur would have sat there, genially > noncommittal, right through to the end. > > I'm very happy to hear of his 90th--if you should somehow see this, > Dick, happy birthday! As for his tackling difficult things, I have two > things to say: first, that (to my ear) he worked out elegant formal > interrogations of _intricate_ things, intricate problems. Second, I'd > cite that other fine American poet, Senor Wences: "Easy for you, > difficult for me." > > Best, > > Jerry Quite a wonderful couple of memories. I wish you'd send it on to him. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Mar 4 14:26:30 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:26:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <4f47d.192b3ad9.3aa296e6@cs.com> In a message dated 3/4/2011 12:52:26 PM Central Standard Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > > This is a good comment. I would like to highlight the following: > > What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his generosity to > people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were enormously > different from his own. (How I wish this were a more widespread feature among the > people I've known since!) On the several occasions I contacted him after > that, he was every bit as friendly, open, and helpful as others here have > suggested. > > > I could write this about my father. Probably, the attitude of some people > who commented on Wilbur was dictated by a generational gap they have not > been able to fill in, yet. > And I am sorry for him because he had to face those kids, as much as I am > sorry for my father who had to face me. > Wilbur was pretty wild in his youth too, and he was, I recall, removed from Intelligence and put in a foxhole because of some of the political activities of his college days. So I'm sure he understood where these kids were coming from. "To the Student Strikers" is a pretty good poem about the 60s/70s. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Mar 4 14:35:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:35:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 Message-ID: <26120688.1299267345770.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Or maybe not. You could try Oppen or Resnikoff. -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Kostro >Sent: Mar 4, 2011 12:05 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 > >Thank you for your thoughts on ANthony Hecht. > >When I studied with Marilyn Hacker up at City College she presented Hecht;s >poems to help us "learn" forms. > >His poems smite/smoke! > >Then he died and is rarely talked of these days. No matter how gifted >Jewish and Holocaust poets are not real popular at this time. > >And Hecht needs to be read, and read again. > >Patricia Brody >On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:00 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (Graham, David) >> 2. Today's Historymaker: June Jordan (jforjames at aol.com) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:51:03 -0600 >> From: "Graham, David" >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >> Message-ID: <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3 at ripon.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> What's a difficult subject? >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: >> >>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) >>> . >>> Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. >>> Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more difficult subjects. >>> >>> From: Tad Richards >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >>> >>> That really does take a special person. >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: >>> A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. >>> >>> My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular lines from them. >>> >>> www.mikesnider.org >>> >>> On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: >>> >>>> I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >>>> >>>> Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >>>> >>>> Suzanne >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >>>> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>>>> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>>> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>>> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >>>> >>>> >>>> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:29:52 -0500 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Today's Historymaker: June Jordan >> Message-ID: <8CDA8A086108834-14E4-5153 at webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> http://bed-stuy.patch.com/articles/todays-historymaker-june-jordan >> >> Today's Historymaker: June Jordan >> >> One of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation >> >> February 15, 2011: Poet, playwright and essayist June Jordan was one of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation. >> >> Born July 9, 1936, in Harlem, New York, and raised in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, Jordan?s future was shaped, for better and for worse, by her relationship with her father. >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 >> **************************************** > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Mar 4 14:43:04 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:43:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B0396E1-CA06-4CCD-819D-3966C6618AAE@verizon.net> On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:22 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. Echoing David, Sam and Others, I see Dick Wilbur as "the glass of fashion and the mould of form" (likely misquoting Shakespeare). He's been a good friend for over 50 years and sets the absolute standard for kind attentiveness, as testimony here displays. And that's not even to mention the elegance of his own performance as poet and translator. I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring that I was the only person he'd ever trusted to have him spread mayonnaise on his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off of beach tar). An entirely lovable, admirable man -- would there were more even remotely like him! Barry From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 4 14:46:17 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: <6B0396E1-CA06-4CCD-819D-3966C6618AAE@verizon.net> References: <6B0396E1-CA06-4CCD-819D-3966C6618AAE@verizon.net> Message-ID: <916873.49717.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've never read Wilbur and honestly know nothing about him (book recommendations welcomed), but I must say, this is one of the?finest threads I've seen in a good while.?Quite nice to see how loved and admired this man is. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Barry Spacks To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 8:43:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:22 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. Echoing David, Sam and Others, I see Dick Wilbur as "the glass of fashion and the mould of form" (likely misquoting Shakespeare). He's been a good friend for over 50 years and sets the absolute standard for kind attentiveness, as testimony here displays. And that's not even to mention the elegance of his own performance as poet and translator. I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring that I was the only person he'd ever trusted to have him spread mayonnaise on his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off of beach tar). An entirely lovable, admirable man -- would there were more even remotely like him! Barry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Mar 4 14:44:52 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur Message-ID: <2300.2b33a0fa.3aa29b34@cs.com> In a message dated 3/4/2011 1:43:13 PM Central Standard Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: > > I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at > Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times > such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. > Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring > that I was the only person he'd ever trusted > to have him spread mayonnaise on > his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off > of beach tar). > What a wonderful story, Barry. We should really collect all of these and have the book printed as a festschrift. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 15:22:11 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:22:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2011 Geography of Hope Literary Conference featuring Robert Hass, Brenda Hillman, Michael Ondaatje & Others In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forwarding mostly because this is a neat group of poets to see together. 2011 GEOGRAPHY OF HOPE CONFERENCE MARCH 18?20, 2011 The 2011 Geography of Hope Conference celebrates ?Reflections on Water? in literary conversations with world-renowned authors, in public art installations, and on field trips to farms, wetlands, and wilderness areas in the West Marin countryside, including Hog Island Oysters, the Bolinas Lagoon, Lagunitas Creek, Giacomini Wetlands, Drakes Estero, and more. Meals prepared with Marin?s most delicious farm products will be served at two dinners at Toby?s Feed Barn and at many other conference events. The 2011 Geography of Hope Conference is co-sponsored by Point Reyes Books and the Tomales Bay Library Association. The Geography of Hope Literary Conference is co-chaired by award- winning poet Brenda Hillman and former United States Poet Laureate Robert Hass who bring a wealth of literary inspiration and personal magnetism to the event. It also features other established and emerging writers including Michael Ondaatje, William Least Heat-Moon, Tom Farber, Eddy L. Harris, Julia Whitty, Peter Gleick, Philip Fradkin, Tim Palmer, Linda Spalding, Pamela Michael, Claire Peaslee, eco-poets Evelyn Reilly and Jonathan Skinner, and Heyday Books publisher Malcolm Margolin. The authors will participate in lively panels held at the Dance Palace Community Center and more intimate lunchtime and field trip conversations with participants. Meals made with Marin?s most delicious farm products will be served at two dinners at Toby?s Feed Barn during the conference. The conference is a showcase for the work of individual writers who have used water as inspiration in their work as well as an opportunity for them to engage in panel conversations with each other before an audience of the public. Question-and-answer periods follow. Information and tickets at http://www.ptreyesbooks.com/goh/conference ABOUT THE CONFERENCE: Founded in 2008, the Geography of Hope Conference has quickly become one of Northern California?s most exceptional literary and arts events. It takes its name from Wallace Stegner?s famous ?Wilderness Letter? in which he described wild landscapes as part of our ?geography of hope.? Held in Point Reyes Station in western Marin County where many of Stegner?s land conservation visions have come to fruition, the conference has explored the relationship between people and the landscape through the voices of authors, environmentalists, farmers, artists, and filmmakers. __._,_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 4 15:29:30 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:29:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3@ripon.edu> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <567292.61828.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Leaving one's comfort zone. When one attempts to do that, the subjects usually become difficult. Maybe Hecht is also too comfortable. & Nemerov too. Still, read Dover Bitch. Hecht could get ugly. His writing covered a wide variety of subject matter, and he could switch up on tone ( sometimes sarcastic, other times earnest). Too much sameness in tone and subject matter in Wilbur's writing. Wilbur has obviously written poems that will last, but he ain't the best out there. Plenty of people say he is the best. He's no doubt one of the most accomplished formalist of the 2nd half of century 20. And the people who consider Wilbur the best are not terribly wrong, but they're not right either. ________________________________ From: "Graham, David" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:51:03 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 What's a difficult subject? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) >. >Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary >Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, >Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting >tough issues. > >Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more >difficult subjects. > > > > > ________________________________ From: Tad Richards >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 > >That really does take a special person. > > >On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: > >A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is >worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of >the greatest American poets. >> >> >>My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his >>opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not >>only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent >>her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing >>particular lines from them. >> >>www.mikesnider.org >> >>On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: >> >> >>I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started >>corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking >>about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with >>comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. >>He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >>> >>>Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >>> >>>Suzanne >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >>> >>>In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, >>>david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>> >>>> >>>>I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>>>was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>>>handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >>> >>>A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond >>>indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my >>>undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when >>>there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Mar 4 16:08:44 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:08:44 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Festshrift In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:36 PM, R.S.Gwyne wrote: > We should really collect all of these and > have the book printed as a festschrift. How about shifting to the more do-able cyber-schrift and zooming it out to him? But alas I don't believe he eee's. The Cummington address is likely still good? Want to back-channel with me on this? Barry From pprod at mindspring.com Fri Mar 4 16:12:49 2011 From: pprod at mindspring.com (Phillip Levine) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:12:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 10 Message-ID: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: >Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > 2. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > 3. Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 (junction at earthlink.net) > 4. Re: Wilbur (Barry Spacks) > 5. Re: Wilbur (Alexander Dickow) > 6. Re: Wilbur (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > 7. 2011 Geography of Hope Literary Conference featuring Robert > Hass, Brenda Hillman, Michael Ondaatje & Others (Catherine Daly) > 8. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (stephen russell) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:23:20 EST >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >Message-ID: <4f1d9.181e7933.3aa29628 at cs.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >In a message dated 3/4/2011 11:53:34 AM Central Standard Time, >jlm8047 at louisiana.edu writes: > >> >> I always think of Muriel Spark's Miss Brodie at times like this: "For >> those who like that sort of thing . . . that is the sort of thing they >> like." I took Wilbur's workshop at Wesleyan in the early 70s. It was >> full of bright, over-praised, mostly privileged barefoot and bra-less >> kids in flannel and denim who mostly thought of the tweedy, smooth-faced >> guy at the head of the table as a quaint figure of ancient mythology, >> with his impossibly cultured voice (the rule: the student would read >> his/her own poem aloud, and then Wilbur would follow with his own >> reading: truly hilarious, sometimes) and anachronistic decorum. I >> remember the poems in that workshop as fairly representative of the >> kinds of poems kids were writing all over the country at the >> time--mostly free verse, mostly (roughly) confessional, often >> aggressively political; Wilbur, despite his distance from all that, >> never blinked. Nor, to my recollection, did he judge inordinately. Like >> David Weinstock, who also took the workshop around that time, I recall >> his meticulous comments (though unlike David, I still have all my copies >> of those). I wonder now, after years of teaching such workshops, how >> much of a labor it must have been for him to wade through all that >> unmediated excess--he himself was nothing if not mediated, controlled, >> decorous. What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his >> generosity to people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were >> enormously different from his own. (How I wish this were a more >> widespread feature among the people I've known since!) On the several >> occasions I contacted him after that, he was every bit as friendly, >> open, and helpful as others here have suggested. >> >> One more brief moment: a few years later, at Buffalo, somehow Wilbur >> showed up to give a reading, though (except maybe for Al Cook and me) I >> doubt he had a friend in sight. Listening from high up in the >> auditorium, it was clearly poetry from another place and time; and >> Wilbur's reserve was such that I've never been able to guess whether he >> was in any way _conscious_ of the extent to which those quatrains and >> measured, balanced stanzas _crazed_ many of the people there, baffled >> and even angered them. At one point he made a seemingly offhand comment >> about Kerouac (Wilbur, it seemed, had also spent some time hitchhiking >> in his younger days); Bob Creeley, far in the back of the hall, got up >> and left (whether in a huff or because of another engagement, I don't >> even want to conjecture), his posse at his heels. I'll treasure my >> acquaintance with Creeley as long as I live, and no doubt my own writing >> found a much more congenial grounding in Buffalo's poetics than in >> anything Wilbur had to teach me; but I'm willing to bet that, if the >> situation were reversed, Wilbur would have sat there, genially >> noncommittal, right through to the end. >> >> I'm very happy to hear of his 90th--if you should somehow see this, >> Dick, happy birthday! As for his tackling difficult things, I have two >> things to say: first, that (to my ear) he worked out elegant formal >> interrogations of _intricate_ things, intricate problems. Second, I'd >> cite that other fine American poet, Senor Wences: "Easy for you, >> difficult for me." >> >> Best, >> >> Jerry > >Quite a wonderful couple of memories. I wish you'd send it on to him. > >Sam >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:26:30 EST >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >Message-ID: <4f47d.192b3ad9.3aa296e6 at cs.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >In a message dated 3/4/2011 12:52:26 PM Central Standard Time, >anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: >> >> >> This is a good comment. I would like to highlight the following: >> >> What lasts for me from those days is a clear sense of his generosity to >> people whose attitudes--social, political, aesthetic--were enormously >> different from his own. (How I wish this were a more widespread feature among the >> people I've known since!) On the several occasions I contacted him after >> that, he was every bit as friendly, open, and helpful as others here have >> suggested. >> >> >> I could write this about my father. Probably, the attitude of some people >> who commented on Wilbur was dictated by a generational gap they have not >> been able to fill in, yet. >> And I am sorry for him because he had to face those kids, as much as I am >> sorry for my father who had to face me. >> >Wilbur was pretty wild in his youth too, and he was, I recall, removed from >Intelligence and put in a foxhole because of some of the political >activities of his college days. So I'm sure he understood where these kids were >coming from. "To the Student Strikers" is a pretty good poem about the >60s/70s. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:35:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >From: junction at earthlink.net >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 >Message-ID: > <26120688.1299267345770.JavaMail.root at wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >Or maybe not. You could try Oppen or Resnikoff. > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Tom Kostro >>Sent: Mar 4, 2011 12:05 PM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 >> >>Thank you for your thoughts on ANthony Hecht. >> >>When I studied with Marilyn Hacker up at City College she presented Hecht;s >>poems to help us "learn" forms. >> >>His poems smite/smoke! >> >>Then he died and is rarely talked of these days. No matter how gifted >>Jewish and Holocaust poets are not real popular at this time. >> >>And Hecht needs to be read, and read again. >> >>Patricia Brody >>On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:00 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: >> >>> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Wilbur turns 90 (Graham, David) >>> 2. Today's Historymaker: June Jordan (jforjames at aol.com) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:51:03 -0600 >>> From: "Graham, David" >>> To: "NewPoetry List" >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >>> Message-ID: <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3 at ripon.edu> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> What's a difficult subject? >>> >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" wrote: >>> >>>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) >>>> . >>>> Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting tough issues. >>>> Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more difficult subjects. >>>> >>>> From: Tad Richards >>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >>>> >>>> That really does take a special person. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: >>>> A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of the greatest American poets. >>>> >>>> My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing particular lines from them. >>>> >>>> www.mikesnider.org >>>> >>>> On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >>>>> >>>>> Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >>>>> >>>>> Suzanne >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >>>>> In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>>>>> I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>>>> was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>>>> handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:29:52 -0500 >>> From: jforjames at aol.com >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Today's Historymaker: June Jordan >>> Message-ID: <8CDA8A086108834-14E4-5153 at webmail-d066.sysops.aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> >>> http://bed-stuy.patch.com/articles/todays-historymaker-june-jordan >>> >>> Today's Historymaker: June Jordan >>> >>> One of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation >>> >>> February 15, 2011: Poet, playwright and essayist June Jordan was one of the most widely published and highly acclaimed African-American writers of her generation. >>> >>> Born July 9, 1936, in Harlem, New York, and raised in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, Jordan?s future was shaped, for better and for worse, by her relationship with her father. >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 >>> **************************************** >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:43:04 -0800 >From: Barry Spacks >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur >Message-ID: <6B0396E1-CA06-4CCD-819D-3966C6618AAE at verizon.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > >On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:22 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. > >Echoing David, Sam and Others, I see Dick Wilbur >as "the glass of fashion and the mould of form" >(likely misquoting Shakespeare). He's been >a good friend for over 50 years and sets >the absolute standard for kind attentiveness, >as testimony here displays. And that's not even >to mention the elegance of his own performance >as poet and translator. > >I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at >Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times >such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. >Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring >that I was the only person he'd ever trusted >to have him spread mayonnaise on >his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off >of beach tar). > >An entirely lovable, admirable man -- would there were more >even remotely like him! > >Barry > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:17 -0800 (PST) >From: Alexander Dickow >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur >Message-ID: <916873.49717.qm at web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I've never read Wilbur and honestly know nothing about him (book recommendations >welcomed), but I must say, this is one of the?finest threads I've seen in a good >while.?Quite nice to see how loved and admired this man is. >Amicalement, >Alex >? >www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > >________________________________ >From: Barry Spacks >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 8:43:04 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur > > >On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:22 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>>> Wilbur has a beautiful touch. > >Echoing David, Sam and Others, I see Dick Wilbur >as "the glass of fashion and the mould of form" >(likely misquoting Shakespeare). He's been >a good friend for over 50 years and sets >the absolute standard for kind attentiveness, >as testimony here displays. And that's not even >to mention the elegance of his own performance >as poet and translator. > >I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at >Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times >such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. >Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring >that I was the only person he'd ever trusted >to have him spread mayonnaise on >his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off >of beach tar). > >An entirely lovable, admirable man -- would there were more >even remotely like him! > >Barry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:52 EST >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur >Message-ID: <2300.2b33a0fa.3aa29b34 at cs.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >In a message dated 3/4/2011 1:43:13 PM Central Standard Time, >barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: >> >> I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at >> Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times >> such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. >> Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring >> that I was the only person he'd ever trusted >> to have him spread mayonnaise on >> his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off >> of beach tar). >> >What a wonderful story, Barry. We should really collect all of these and >have the book printed as a festschrift. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:22:11 -0800 >From: Catherine Daly >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > >Subject: [New-Poetry] 2011 Geography of Hope Literary Conference > featuring Robert Hass, Brenda Hillman, Michael Ondaatje & Others >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >Forwarding mostly because this is a neat group of poets to see together. > >2011 GEOGRAPHY OF HOPE CONFERENCE > >MARCH 18?20, 2011 > >The 2011 Geography of Hope Conference celebrates ?Reflections on Water? in >literary conversations with world-renowned authors, in public art >installations, and on field trips to farms, wetlands, and wilderness areas >in the West Marin countryside, including Hog Island Oysters, the Bolinas >Lagoon, Lagunitas Creek, Giacomini Wetlands, Drakes Estero, and more. >Meals prepared with Marin?s most delicious farm products will be served at >two dinners at Toby?s Feed Barn and at many other conference events. The >2011 >Geography of Hope Conference is co-sponsored by Point Reyes Books and >the Tomales Bay Library Association. > >The Geography of Hope Literary Conference is co-chaired by award- >winning poet Brenda Hillman and former United States Poet Laureate >Robert Hass who bring a wealth of literary inspiration and personal >magnetism to the event. It also features other established and >emerging writers including Michael Ondaatje, William Least Heat-Moon, >Tom Farber, Eddy L. Harris, Julia Whitty, Peter Gleick, Philip >Fradkin, Tim Palmer, Linda Spalding, Pamela Michael, Claire Peaslee, >eco-poets Evelyn Reilly and Jonathan Skinner, and Heyday Books >publisher Malcolm Margolin. The authors will participate in lively >panels held at the Dance Palace Community Center and more intimate >lunchtime and field trip conversations with participants. Meals made >with Marin?s most delicious farm products will be served at two >dinners at Toby?s Feed Barn during the conference. The conference is a >showcase for the work of individual writers who have used water as >inspiration in their work as well as an opportunity for them to engage >in panel conversations with each other before an audience of the >public. Question-and-answer periods follow. > >Information and tickets at http://www.ptreyesbooks.com/goh/conference > >ABOUT THE CONFERENCE: Founded in 2008, the Geography of Hope >Conference has quickly become one of Northern California?s most >exceptional literary and arts events. It takes its name from Wallace >Stegner?s famous ?Wilderness Letter? in which he described wild >landscapes as part of our ?geography of hope.? Held in Point Reyes >Station in western Marin County where many of Stegner?s land >conservation visions have come to fruition, the conference has >explored the relationship between people and the landscape through the >voices of authors, environmentalists, farmers, artists, and >filmmakers. > > __._,_ >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:29:30 -0800 (PST) >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >Message-ID: <567292.61828.qm at web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Leaving one's comfort zone. >When one attempts to do that, the subjects usually become difficult. > >Maybe Hecht is also too comfortable. >& Nemerov too. > >Still, read Dover Bitch. Hecht could get ugly. His writing covered a wide >variety of subject matter, and he could switch up on tone ( sometimes sarcastic, >other times earnest). Too much sameness in tone and subject matter in Wilbur's >writing. Wilbur has obviously written poems that will last, but he ain't the >best out there. Plenty of people say he is the best. He's no doubt one of the >most accomplished formalist of the 2nd half of century 20. And the people who >consider Wilbur the best are not terribly wrong, but they're not right either. > > > > > >________________________________ >From: "Graham, David" >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:51:03 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 > > >What's a difficult subject? > >=================== >David Graham >Grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz >==================== > >On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:48 AM, "stephen russell" >wrote: > > >Wilbur has a beautiful touch. He's certainly among the most highly >skilled living ( 90! ) poets. Still, I agree with Simic: Wilbur simply doesn't >confront difficult issues ( does he still write?) >>. >>Is Wilbur a major poet? ... Not for me to answer, but I'll take the visionary >>Yeats to my grave ( not that I'm going anywhere soon ) before RW. Actually, >>Anthony Hecht, another amazing formalist, did manage to go ugly, confronting >>tough issues. >> >>Ditto Howard Nemerov, although H N usually kept an ironic distance from his more >>difficult subjects. >> >> >> >> >> >________________________________ > From: Tad Richards >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:31:09 AM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 >> >>That really does take a special person. >> >> >>On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Mike Snider wrote: >> >>A wonderful man, whom I have met only briefly, and, for what my opinion is >>worth, the most accomplished living poet in our language and one of a handful of >>the greatest American poets. >>> >>> >>>My fianc?e had her elementary school music students write imitations of his >>>opposite poems and gave a copy of them to him one year at West Chester. He not >>>only signed a copy of the book for the children, but within a few weeks he sent >>>her and her class a note typed on a postcard praising their poems, citing >>>particular lines from them. >>> >>>www.mikesnider.org >>> >>>On Mar 1, 2011, at 21:54, Suzanne Burns wrote: >>> >>> >>>I have very happy memories of studying with him at Smith. I started >>>corresponding with him when I was a freshman, sending him my poems and talking >>>about how I wanted to start my own magazine.... He always wrote me back with >>>comments on my poems, and took me seriously. I have always appreciated that. >>>He is a very dear, generous, and expansive soul. >>>> >>>>Happy Birthday Richard Wilbur! >>>> >>>>Suzanne >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM, wrote: >>>> >>>>In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:23:05 PM Central Standard Time, >>>>david.weinstock at gmail.com writes: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I took Wilbur's Verse Writing class at Wesleyan in fall term 1973. He >>>>>>was a great teacher, and marked up poems with calligraphic italic >>>>>>handwriting. Unfortunately, I have lost those pages. >>>> >>>>A great, kind man and teacher--beyond his poetry (which is pretty far beyond >>>>indeed). I have been corresponding with him for 40+ years, since my >>>>undergraduate days. He has always answered his mail, giving encouragement when >>>>there was not a lot to encourage. God bless him. >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > From tad at opus40.org Fri Mar 4 18:01:18 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:01:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What became of Wystan In-Reply-To: <8CDA8B5F4F3FBC8-1C70-856C@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDA8B5F4F3FBC8-1C70-856C@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/17/richards17.html On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:03 PM, wrote: > http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2011/02/auden-poetry-american-age > The Age of Auden: Postwar Poetry and the American Scene > By Aidan Wasley > Reviewed by Jeremy Noel-Tod - 03 March 2011 > > What became of Wystan > > In June 1940, a question was asked in the House of Commons about W H > Auden's departure for America the previous year. Would the 33-year-old poet > be summoned back for wartime service? The minister who responded managed to > get his famous young men confused, and replied that H W Austin, the tennis > player, had promised to return if called. The poet, however, had not, and > did not return. > > What Auden was trying to escape when he crossed the Atlantic was his > English fame. After a decade in which he had defined the avant-garde poetics > and left-wing politics of a generation, he feared the compromises of > official war culture. Entering middle age in the United States, he became a > different poet - more conversational, more philosophical, more formally > conservative and more openly homosexual. > > It is also generally agreed that his poetry became less interesting. Philip > Larkin, an ardent admirer in the 1930s, asked of the later work, "What's > become of Wystan?" > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 21:43:11 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:43:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What became of Wystan In-Reply-To: <8CDA8B5F4F3FBC8-1C70-856C@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDA8B5F4F3FBC8-1C70-856C@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I recommend the book highly. I studied with Aidan when I was in my Ph.D program and took a wonderful course from him entitled "Britain Between the Wars." The book lays out a very compelling case for Auden's continued influence on American poetry. I think the book is a valuable resource. The first chapter is available online here: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9307.html Best, Jeff Newberry On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:03 PM, wrote: > http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2011/02/auden-poetry-american-age > The Age of Auden: Postwar Poetry and the American Scene > By Aidan Wasley > Reviewed by Jeremy Noel-Tod - 03 March 2011 > > What became of Wystan > > In June 1940, a question was asked in the House of Commons about W H > Auden's departure for America the previous year. Would the 33-year-old poet > be summoned back for wartime service? The minister who responded managed to > get his famous young men confused, and replied that H W Austin, the tennis > player, had promised to return if called. The poet, however, had not, and > did not return. > > What Auden was trying to escape when he crossed the Atlantic was his > English fame. After a decade in which he had defined the avant-garde poetics > and left-wing politics of a generation, he feared the compromises of > official war culture. Entering middle age in the United States, he became a > different poet - more conversational, more philosophical, more formally > conservative and more openly homosexual. > > It is also generally agreed that his poetry became less interesting. Philip > Larkin, an ardent admirer in the 1930s, asked of the later work, "What's > become of Wystan?" > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Fri Mar 4 23:37:31 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:37:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <567292.61828.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com> <0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org> <580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3@ripon.edu> <567292.61828.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You're not reading the same poets I know by those names. Here's some comfortable verse for you. Hecht: The Book of Yolek Wir Haben ein Gesetz, Und nach dem Gesetz soll er sterben.* The dowsed coals fume and hiss after your meal Of grilled brook trout, and you saunter off for a walk Down the fern trail. It doesn't matter where to, Just so you're weeks and worlds away from home, And among midsummer hills have set up camp In the deep bronze glories of declining day. You remember, peacefully, an earlier day In childhood, remember a quite specific meal: A corn roast and bonfire in summer camp. That summer you got lost on a Nature Walk; More than you dared admit, you thought of home: No one else knows where the mind wanders to. The fifth of August, 1942. It was the morning and very hot. It was the day They came at dawn with rifles to The Home For Jewish Children, cutting short the meal Of bread and soup, lining them up to walk In close formation off to a special camp. How often you have thought about that camp, As though in some strange way you were driven to, And about the children, and how they were made to walk, Yolek who had bad lungs, who wasn't a day Over five years old, commanded to leave his meal And shamble between armed guards to his long home. We're approaching August again. It will drive home The regulation torments of that camp Yolek was sent to, his small, unfinished meal, The electric fences, the numeral tattoo, The quite extraordinary heat of the day They all were forced to take that terrible walk. Whether on a silent, solitary walk Or among crowds, far off or safe at home, You will remember, helplessly, that day, And the smell of smoke, and the loudspeakers of the camp. Wherever you are, Yolek will be there, too. His unuttered name will interrupt your meal. Prepare to receive him in your home some day. Though they killed him in the camp they sent him to, He will walk in as you're sitting down to a meal. Note that 5 of the 6 final letters of each stanza are an anagram of the murdered child's name. Such care with horror. And here's Nemerov: > I met a guy I used to know, who said: "You take your '57 Karnak, now, The model that they called their Coop de Veal That had the pointy rubber boobs for bumpers-- You take that car, owned by a nigger now Likelier'n not, with half its chromium teeth Knocked down its throat and aerial ripped off, Side stitched with like bullets where the stripping's gone And rust like a fungus spreading on the fenders, Well, what I mean, that fucking car still runs, Even the moths in the upholstery are old But it gets around, you see one on the street Beat-up and proud, well, Jeezus what a country, Where even the monuments keep on the move." And another: Kicks The fishermen on Lake Michigan, sometimes, For kicks, they spit two hunks of bait on hooks At either end of a single length of line And toss that up among the scavenging gulls. Who go for it so fast that often two of them Make the connection before it hits the water. Hooked and hung up like that, they do a dance That lasts only so long. The fishermen Do that for kicks, on Lake Michigan, sometimes. As for Wilbur, I'll leave aside his tale of a brothel from his hobo days (what's the title, someone?) and give the opening poem from his Mayflies, "A Barred Owl": The warping night air having brought the boom Of an owl's voice into her darkened room, We tell the wakened child that all she heard Was an odd question from a forest bird, Asking of us, if rightly listened to, "Who cooks for you?" and then "Who cooks for you?" Words, which can make our terrors bravely clear, Can also thus domesticate a fear, And send a small child back to sleep at night Not listening for the sound of stealthy flight Or dreaming of some small thing in a claw Borne up to some dark branch and eaten raw. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Sat Mar 5 00:20:14 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:20:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A contemporary American voice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Woohoo, Tad ? I particularly like Barefoot in Florence and Wrestling With the Bear. www.mikesnider.org On Mar 1, 2011, at 15:48, Tad Richards wrote: > http://www.contemporaryamericanvoices.com/ > > March?s Featured Poet ? Tad Richards > > Other notable works by Dennis Doherty and Rachel Loden > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Sat Mar 5 09:35:38 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:35:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog Message-ID: Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 12:07:49 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy for a P.O.D. publisher. Thanks for the info! - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar > > > Best wishes, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > > Very Like A Whale > > Voice Alpha > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 5 12:35:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:35:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <567292.61828.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <51ee5.3b9943bd.3a9dc4ee@cs.com><0612A02D-477E-41AC-B7D 2-B869EA877435@mikesnider.org><580843.38413.qm@web161919.mail.bf1 .yahoo.com><30107EA1-54DF-40FB-98FB-6E23FB4455A3@ripon.edu> <567292.61828.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D72746F.7040407@nut-n-but.net> Subject matter in poetry is unimportant to me, but I should think if one wanted to use a poet's subject matter as a way of rating him, one would count range more than anything else. But, yikes, it so much seems to me that it's what you do with your subject matter as a poet that counts. Has anyone defined "difficult subject matter" yet? Spring seems a petty difficult subject to do anything interesting with because it's so a popular subject. The really difficult subjects NO poets treat to any extent: advanced calculus, string theory, the knowlecular theory of psychology of Grumman . . . --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 5 12:46:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:46:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time In-Reply-To: <8CDA33F1F0CA0A2-16A0-18F1E@webmail-m102.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDA33F1F0CA0A2-16A0-18F1E@webmail-m102.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> On 2/25/2011 3:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Anthony Tommasini's list in NY TImes... > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/arts/music/23composers.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=top%2010%20composers&st=cse > > > - > http://topics.npr.org/topic/Anthony_Tommasini Just so everyone knows I'm as much of a creep about the equivalent of Wilshberia in other arts, I have to say that the NY Times list of the greatest composers is a big yawn. My taste stops, pretty much, with Ives and Prokofief, so I'd never make up a list of the greats. But I have to say that Beethoven seems to me the first composer whose music just about never seemed to me something a computer could have composed. But the other thing I have to say is that, as in any art, the greatest composer is not necessarily the creator of the greatest music. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Sat Mar 5 12:35:08 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 12:35:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even have templates you can download. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy for a P.O.D. publisher. Thanks for the info! - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 12:49:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:49:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've prepped a number of book MSS for POD printings, and I'd agree, Nic. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one > can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less > difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At > Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio > publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via > P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc > for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords > requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even > have templates you can download. Best, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > > Very Like A Whale > > Voice Alpha > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 > From: cervantes.james at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog > > > Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your > ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple > e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords > could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a > P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy > for a P.O.D. publisher. > > Thanks for the info! > > - Jim > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > > Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar > > > Best wishes, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > Whale Sound > Very Like A Whale > Voice Alpha > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 15:56:44 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:56:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: But not for free! - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I've prepped a number of book MSS for POD > printings, and I'd agree, Nic. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > >> Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one >> can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less >> difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At >> Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio >> publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via >> P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc >> for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords >> requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even >> have templates you can download. Best, Nic >> >> >> Nic Sebastian >> >> Whale Sound >> >> Very Like A Whale >> >> Voice Alpha >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 >> From: cervantes.james at gmail.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog >> >> >> Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your >> ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple >> e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords >> could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a >> P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy >> for a P.O.D. publisher. >> >> Thanks for the info! >> >> - Jim >> >> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: >> >> Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar >> >> >> Best wishes, Nic >> >> >> Nic Sebastian >> Whale Sound >> Very Like A Whale >> Voice Alpha >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 16:00:13 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:00:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, folks charge hefty fees for doing that Word-to-copy stage for P.O.D., though the prep in Word is as rigorous as you indicate - and I know what a mess background coding can cause if it's not been done right. Too bad one can't just drift casually from format to format. - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one > can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less > difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At > Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio > publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via > P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc > for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords > requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even > have templates you can download. Best, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > > Very Like A Whale > > Voice Alpha > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 > From: cervantes.james at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog > > > Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your > ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple > e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords > could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a > P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy > for a P.O.D. publisher. > > Thanks for the info! > > - Jim > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > > Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar > > > Best wishes, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > Whale Sound > Very Like A Whale > Voice Alpha > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Mar 5 17:09:44 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 22:09:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In-Reply-To: <2300.2b33a0fa.3aa29b34@cs.com> References: <2300.2b33a0fa.3aa29b34@cs.com> Message-ID: from: More Opposites 5. The opposite of tar is rat. If you don't see the sense of that, Just spell tar backwards, and you will. And there's another reason still: Though rats desert a sinking ship, A tar, with stiffened upper lip, Will man the bilge-pumps like a sport And bring the vessel into port. Richard Wilbur Talent cannot be gainsaid, nor can wit. Wilbur's facility with typical verse Makes nonsense and sense Steer a wisely breezy course. RD From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:52 -0500 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur In a message dated 3/4/2011 1:43:13 PM Central Standard Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: I'll share an anecdote. After one of his readings here at Santa Barbara we took a beach walk. At times such a local walk leaves tar on your feet. Afterwards I had a letter from him declaring that I was the only person he'd ever trusted to have him spread mayonnaise on his feet (sovereign remedy for the scraping off of beach tar). What a wonderful story, Barry. We should really collect all of these and have the book printed as a festschrift. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Mar 5 19:20:23 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:20:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] cow heavy books & about a fish Message-ID: <581750.69429.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Cow Heavy Books SLAVES TO DO THESE THINGS by Amy King Reviewed by: Wendy Babiak http://www.cowheavybooks.com/reviews/2011/2/22/slaves-to-do-these-things.html ~~~~~~ ?About a Fish? by Ana Bozicevic read @ Whale Sound-- http://whalesound.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/about-a-fish-by-ana-bozicevic/ ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Sat Mar 5 20:37:25 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:37:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Jim - Smashwords doesn't format the Word doc for free, it converts it to ebook form free. You are responsible for the formatting. (They do have a list of people who offer formatting services for a fee....) Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:00:13 -0700 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog Well, folks charge hefty fees for doing that Word-to-copy stage for P.O.D., though the prep in Word is as rigorous as you indicate - and I know what a mess background coding can cause if it's not been done right. Too bad one can't just drift casually from format to format. - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even have templates you can download. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy for a P.O.D. publisher. Thanks for the info! - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar Best wishes, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 6 05:42:00 2011 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 02:42:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Trigilio & Loden at Columbia College Chicago Message-ID: Tony Trigilio and Rachel Loden at Columbia College Chicago Wednesday, March 9 Tony Trigilio and Rachel Loden Columbia College Chicago Hokin Hall, 623 S. Wabash, Room 109 Chicago, IL 5:30 pm Free and open to the public http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/9631 or http://www.colum.edu/Academics/English_Department/News_and_Events/Events.php Contact: (312) 369-8819 TONY TRIGILIO's books include the poetry collections Historic Diary (BlazeVOX Books, 2011) and The Lama's English Lessons (Three Candles Press, 2006), and the critical monographs Allen Ginsberg's Buddhist Poetics (Southern Illinois University Press, 2007) and "Strange Prophecies Anew" (Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 2000). With Tim Prchal, he co-edited the anthology, Visions and Divisions: American Immigration Literature, 1870-1930 (Rutgers University Press, 2008). He is a member of the core poetry faculty at Columbia College Chicago and co-edits Court Green. RACHEL LODEN is the author of Dick of the Dead (Ahsahta Press), a finalist for both the 2010 PEN USA Literary Award in Poetry and the California Book Award. Loden's first book, Hotel Imperium (Georgia), won the Contemporary Poetry Series competition. New work appears in Lana Turner: A Journal of Poetry and Opinion and is forthcoming in Volt and New American Writing. She is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize, a Fellowship in Poetry from the California Arts Council, an &NOW Award, and a grant from the Fund for Poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 06:46:34 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 04:46:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understood that, Nic. Formatting Word in a consistent way is slow and tedious but possible; converting it error-free is another matter. - Jim On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > Jim - Smashwords doesn't format the Word doc for free, it converts it to > ebook form free. You are responsible for the formatting. (They do have a > list of people who offer formatting services for a fee....) > > > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > > Very Like A Whale > > Voice Alpha > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:00:13 -0700 > > From: cervantes.james at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog > > Well, folks charge hefty fees for doing that Word-to-copy stage for P.O.D., > though the prep in Word is as rigorous as you indicate - and I know what a > mess background coding can cause if it's not been done right. Too bad one > can't just drift casually from format to format. > > - Jim > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > > Jim - I don't know what Smashwords would answer, but I would say that one > can put print-ready copy for a P.O.D. publisher together with much less > difficulty and rigor than the e-book process demands, formatting-wise. At > Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks, in addition to the original website text/audio > publication of all the chapbooks, we produce print and CD versions via > P.O.D. publisher Lulu - and it's *much* easier to create the basic Word doc > for a print edition than it is to create the basic Word doc Smashwords > requires for e-books. Check out the 'how-to' at www.lulu.com - they even > have templates you can download. Best, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > Whale Sound > Very Like A Whale > Voice Alpha > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:07:49 -0700 > From: cervantes.james at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hands-on ebook poetry publishing at the BAP blog > > > Wow: ". . . an e-book publishing site which will take your > ready-for-publication Microsoft Word doc and convert it free into multiple > e-book formats." That's a big plus. I have one question, which Smashwords > could probably answer, but maybe you know. Do they object to one's doing a > P.O.D. publication of the same e-book? The PDF could likely be used as copy > for a P.O.D. publisher. > > Thanks for the info! > > - Jim > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Nic Sebastian wrote: > > Poetry publishing and e-books - http://bit.ly/ePK9Ar > > > Best wishes, Nic > > > Nic Sebastian > Whale Sound > Very Like A Whale > Voice Alpha > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 08:38:47 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 08:38:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time In-Reply-To: <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDA33F1F0CA0A2-16A0-18F1E@webmail-m102.sysops.aol.com> <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ives and Prokofief? It took me years to figure this out, but Bob isn't crazy, not even eccentric. He's just funny. From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 6 12:33:15 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:33:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Victor Martinez, novelist and poet, dies at 56 Message-ID: <8CDAA3BB53F14B7-CF4-E2CE@Webmail-d116.sysops.aol.com> Victor Martinez, novelist and poet, dies at 56 Poetry is the only thing that can save the world. So said Victor Martinez, a nationally acclaimed novelist and poet who died Feb. 18 in his Mission District apartment. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/03/04/DDON1HUUO0.DTL#ixzz1FqCK8iwh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 6 12:35:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:35:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Rader's Top 10 Message-ID: <8CDAA3BF970D59D-CF4-E31A@Webmail-d116.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=84226 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Sun Mar 6 13:19:57 2011 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:19:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] tad r and poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: nice poem about the woman sleeping with stranger woo hoo indeed On Mar 5, 2011, at 12:00 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > S From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 6 15:43:16 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:43:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Haines obit Message-ID: <8CDAA564121D328-CF4-10133@Webmail-d116.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/arts/05haines.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries John Haines, whose experience hunting, trapping and surviving as a homesteader in the Alaskan wilderness fueled his outpouring of haunting poetry of endless cold nights, howling wolves and deep, primitive dreams, died on Wednesday in Fairbanks. He was 86. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu Sun Mar 6 17:36:12 2011 From: richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu (Wilsnack, Richard) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 14:36:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Haines obit In-Reply-To: <8CDAA564121D328-CF4-10133@Webmail-d116.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDAA564121D328-CF4-10133@Webmail-d116.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <424A7A6D198D2747A9841D16E563736E02927795BA@VA3DIAXVS211.RED001.local> ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 2:43 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] John Haines obit http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/arts/05haines.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries John Haines, whose experience hunting, trapping and surviving as a homesteader in the Alaskan wilderness fueled his outpouring of haunting poetry of endless cold nights, howling wolves and deep, primitive dreams, died on Wednesday in Fairbanks. He was 86. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A small remembrance: In the Forest Without Leaves Earth speech: the furrow sighing behind the plow, the clods talking together. Mobs of dust protest in whispers, pushed on by the wind, and the spilled sand hisses, going by. Talus, those rough words spoken by mountains growing old; young pebble voices make noise underfoot. The cry of a rock loosened in the night from the cliffs above rolling past. from New Poems: 1980-1988 by John Haines Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 00:05:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:05:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "John Haines, a Poet of the Wild, Dies as 86" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Joel Weishaus Date: Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:55 PM Subject: "John Haines, a Poet of the Wild, Dies as 86" To: POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/arts/05haines.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=John%20Haines&st=cse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Mar 7 01:04:17 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:04:17 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "John Haines, a Poet of the Wild, Dies as 86" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: He accepted the fundamental responsibility of being a poet, that is, to be himself, utterly. I would like to see Haines and Thoreau in a conversation. Maybe, somewhere, they are having it. Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:05:18 +0100 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "John Haines, a Poet of the Wild, Dies as 86" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Joel Weishaus Date: Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:55 PM Subject: "John Haines, a Poet of the Wild, Dies as 86" To: POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/arts/05haines.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=John%20Haines&st=cse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Mar 7 09:01:08 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time In-Reply-To: <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDA33F1F0CA0A2-16A0-18F1E@webmail-m102.sysops.aol.com>, <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: Stockhausen! Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 12:46:25 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time On 2/25/2011 3:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Anthony Tommasini's list in NY TImes... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/arts/music/23composers.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=top%2010%20composers&st=cse - http://topics.npr.org/topic/Anthony_Tommasini Just so everyone knows I'm as much of a creep about the equivalent of Wilshberia in other arts, I have to say that the NY Times list of the greatest composers is a big yawn. My taste stops, pretty much, with Ives and Prokofief, so I'd never make up a list of the greats. But I have to say that Beethoven seems to me the first composer whose music just about never seemed to me something a computer could have composed. But the other thing I have to say is that, as in any art, the greatest composer is not necessarily the creator of the greatest music. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Mon Mar 7 09:10:35 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:10:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time In-Reply-To: References: <8CDA33F1F0CA0A2-16A0-18F1E@webmail-m102.sysops.aol.com> <4D7276F1.8010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <23294C88-44D7-4934-8350-FF9EF2D08A58@ripon.edu> I remember my Music Appreciation professor in college saying that Beethoven represented the pinnacle of human achievement as a composer. But Mozart, he would say after a pause, composed like a god.... =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:03 AM, "R Dillon" wrote: > The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: Stockhausen! > > From tad at opus40.org Mon Mar 7 09:59:41 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:59:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] French Court Finds in Favor of Journal Editor Sued for Libel Over Book Review Message-ID: A French court has dismissed a criminal-libel charge brought against a journal editor over a negative book review and ordered the plaintiff to pay punitive damages. The editor, Joseph H.H. Weiler, a professor at New York University's School of Law, said he had been awarded ?8,000 (about $11,000) as a result of the action brought against him by Karin N. Calvo-Goller, a senior lecturer at the Academic Center of Law & Business, in Israel. Mr. Weiler is editor in chief of the *European Journal of International Law; *he also edits a related Web site, *Global Law Books*. In 2007 he published on that Web site a short reviewof a book by Ms. Calvo-Goller. The reviewer was Thomas Weigend, a professor of law at the University of Cologne. (Mr. Weigend was not named in the lawsuit.) Ms. Calvo-Goller thought the review was defamatory and asked Mr. Weiler to take it down. He said no but offered her the chance to respond to it on the Web site, an opportunity she declined. Instead she brought a criminal-libel complaint against him in France. (Ms. Calvo-Goller is based in Israel but has French citizenship as well, according to news reports. *The Chronicle*was unable to reach her for comment on Thursday.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Mar 7 12:24:18 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:24:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and Feldman. Haven't heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or whatever it is called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter kept saying "Can we fast forward this?") and remember the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. Still love that piece. 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to me dramatically to hang by the thread of the soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 > From: R Dillon > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time > > > The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: Stockhausen! > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 13:19:14 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:19:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker Message-ID: -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Mon Mar 7 13:34:31 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:34:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: : ) ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] from the New Yorker -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 13:46:23 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:46:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <19766484.1299522847682.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19766484.1299522847682.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with Koyaanisqatsi. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, wrote: > Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of Veronique, Talk To > Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings > of Desire, Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 1/2.. > Off the top of my head. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Crisman Cooley > Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 > > My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and Feldman. Haven't heard > enough of Stockhausen to say -- though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or > whatever it is called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) > > Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter kept saying "Can we > fast forward this?") and remember the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. > Still love that piece. > > 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to me dramatically to hang > by the thread of the soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? > > > >> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >> From: R Dillon >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time >> >> >> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: >> Stockhausen! >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Mar 7 14:19:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:19:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 Message-ID: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 14:43:28 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:43:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: plus Sheltering Sky On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, wrote: > A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. > > Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. Les > Parapluies de Cherbourg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 > > What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde > and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with > Koyaanisqatsi. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, wrote: > >> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of Veronique, Talk To >> Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings >> of Desire, Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 1/2.. >> Off the top of my head. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Crisman Cooley >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >> >> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and Feldman. Haven't heard >> enough of Stockhausen to say -- though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or >> whatever it is called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) >> >> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter kept saying "Can we >> fast forward this?") and remember the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. >> Still love that piece. >> >> 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to me dramatically to >> hang by the thread of the soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? >> >> >> >>> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >>> From: R Dillon >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time >>> >>> >>> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: >>> Stockhausen! >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 14:48:12 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:48:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: And, I suppose, we shouldn't forget Black Swan (although I've been trying to). "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > And also, The Man Who Knew Too Much. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > >> plus Sheltering Sky >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, wrote: >> >>> A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. >>> >>> Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. Les >>> Parapluies de Cherbourg >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Halvard Johnson >>> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >>> >>> What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde >>> and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with >>> Koyaanisqatsi. >>> >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> --David Antin >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of Veronique, Talk >>>> To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, anything by Powell and Pressburger, >>>> Wings of Desire, Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 >>>> 1/2.. Off the top of my head. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Crisman Cooley >>>> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM >>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >>>> >>>> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and Feldman. Haven't >>>> heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- though his fugue with 4 helicopters >>>> (or whatever it is called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) >>>> >>>> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter kept saying "Can we >>>> fast forward this?") and remember the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. >>>> Still love that piece. >>>> >>>> 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to me dramatically to >>>> hang by the thread of the soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >>>>> From: R Dillon >>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: >>>>> Stockhausen! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 14:46:58 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:46:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: And also, The Man Who Knew Too Much. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > plus Sheltering Sky > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, wrote: > >> A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. >> >> Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. Les >> Parapluies de Cherbourg >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >> >> What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde >> and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with >> Koyaanisqatsi. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, wrote: >> >>> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of Veronique, Talk >>> To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, anything by Powell and Pressburger, >>> Wings of Desire, Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 >>> 1/2.. Off the top of my head. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Crisman Cooley >>> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >>> >>> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and Feldman. Haven't heard >>> enough of Stockhausen to say -- though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or >>> whatever it is called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) >>> >>> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter kept saying "Can we >>> fast forward this?") and remember the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. >>> Still love that piece. >>> >>> 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to me dramatically to >>> hang by the thread of the soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >>>> From: R Dillon >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All Time >>>> >>>> >>>> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and Prokofiev: >>>> Stockhausen! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Mar 7 14:57:02 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:57:02 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 Message-ID: <26503477.1299527823387.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Mar 7 15:57:03 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 14:57:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] filmscore In-Reply-To: References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D75469F.6010108@louisiana.edu> Seems to me there are actually two question here: what are the great filmscores, and what are the filmscores that are the only thing keeping a film from tanking ("hanging by the thread of the soundtrack"). The great Ennio Morricone scores for Leone's (and other, lesser) spagetti westerns might fit into that one. Scores by Bernard Hermann, especially for _Psycho,_ taught subsequent film directors about intensity, dynamics and emphasis: catching the pulse and adrenaline pump of viewers. And before that, E. Y. Harburg and Harold Arlen were given unprecedented input into narrative decisions (especially scene transitions) when they scored _Wizard of Oz._ Like Kurosawa (and Bergman), Fellini was a genius at exploiting precisely integrated compositions--in his case by Nino Rota. And French new wavers like Truffaut and Malle incorporated American jazz more thoroughly than any mainstream American director had to that point. Then there's one of the great incongruities, the Anton Karas zither score for Carol Reed's _The Third Man_--one of the most weirdly affecting, and ultimately popular, pieces of music ever associated with movies--and having nothing much to do with post-war Vienna, to the best of my knowledge. But the question of what exactly constitutes a film score--what combination of sounds adds up to something melopoeiac--is what really interests me. For instance, Fritz Lang's _M_ is clearly a metatext about sound (it was Lang's first sound film, and its plot turns around an overheard tune the child-murderer whistles); but it doesn't incorporate any non-diegetic music. Instead (and it's like Chaplin's early experiments with sound in this) it turns diegetic sounds into abstract components of a larger audiovisual construction that is all the more provocative because sound is a new element in film, and audiences haven't yet learned to engage with the new layering of sensory elements. I'm not quite up to the task of finding out how the 20th century's electronic composers are in fact responding to this cinematic phenomenon that kicks in around 1930. I know that Varese had built sirens into his compositions long before this, and I'm sure someone on this list knows a lot about surrealist sound and mixed media performances. But as _the_ popular art form, the new sound film presented lots of experiments in manipulating concrete sounds into abstract patterns. (Its interesting that, aside from von Trier's _Dancer in the Dark_, the Dogme group, committed to diegetic sound, has done such a pitiful job of exploiting these possibilities.) Oh, and here's a hats-off to Trent Reznor. _The Social Network_ was a very well-made film whose cultural currency never quite managed to overcome the fundamental nastiness of its "characters" to make it as popular as people thought it would be. But the score is really cool. Jerry Paul Howell wrote: > plus Sheltering Sky > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, > wrote: > > A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. > > Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. > Les Parapluies de Cherbourg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 > > What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde > and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with > Koyaanisqatsi. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > / Mainly Black > > , // Obras P?blicas > > ; // The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > > ; / > / Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > > ; // Tango Bouquet > > ; // Theory of Harmony > > ; / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; //Guide > to the Tokyo Subway > ; //The > Sonnet Project > ; / > > /G(e)nome > ; //Winter > Journey ; // / > /Eclipse ; / / > //The Dance of the Red Swan > ;/ > / Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, > wrote: > > Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of > Veronique, Talk To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, > anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings of Desire, > Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 > 1/2.. Off the top of my head. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Crisman Cooley > Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, > Issue 16 > > My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and > Feldman. Haven't heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- > though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or whatever it is > called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) > > Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my 14yo daughter > kept saying "Can we fast forward this?") and remember > the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. Still love that > piece. > > 2001 is the only movie I can think of that seems to > me dramatically to hang by the thread of the > soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? > > > > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 > From: R Dillon > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All > Time > > > The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and > Prokofiev: Stockhausen! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 From tad at opus40.org Mon Mar 7 16:20:18 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 16:20:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] filmscore In-Reply-To: <4D75469F.6010108@louisiana.edu> References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D75469F.6010108@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Don't forget Erich Korngold's great scores. Then there's soundtrack, as opposed to score -- like American Grafitti and The Girl Can't Help It. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Seems to me there are actually two question here: what are the great > filmscores, and what are the filmscores that are the only thing keeping a > film from tanking ("hanging by the thread of the soundtrack"). The great > Ennio Morricone scores for Leone's (and other, lesser) spagetti westerns > might fit into that one. > > Scores by Bernard Hermann, especially for _Psycho,_ taught subsequent film > directors about intensity, dynamics and emphasis: catching the pulse and > adrenaline pump of viewers. And before that, E. Y. Harburg and Harold Arlen > were given unprecedented input into narrative decisions (especially scene > transitions) when they scored _Wizard of Oz._ > > Like Kurosawa (and Bergman), Fellini was a genius at exploiting precisely > integrated compositions--in his case by Nino Rota. And French new wavers > like Truffaut and Malle incorporated American jazz more thoroughly than any > mainstream American director had to that point. > > Then there's one of the great incongruities, the Anton Karas zither score > for Carol Reed's _The Third Man_--one of the most weirdly affecting, and > ultimately popular, pieces of music ever associated with movies--and having > nothing much to do with post-war Vienna, to the best of my knowledge. > > But the question of what exactly constitutes a film score--what combination > of sounds adds up to something melopoeiac--is what really interests me. For > instance, Fritz Lang's _M_ is clearly a metatext about sound (it was Lang's > first sound film, and its plot turns around an overheard tune the > child-murderer whistles); but it doesn't incorporate any non-diegetic music. > Instead (and it's like Chaplin's early experiments with sound in this) it > turns diegetic sounds into abstract components of a larger audiovisual > construction that is all the more provocative because sound is a new element > in film, and audiences haven't yet learned to engage with the new layering > of sensory elements. I'm not quite up to the task of finding out how the > 20th century's electronic composers are in fact responding to this cinematic > phenomenon that kicks in around 1930. I know that Varese had built sirens > into his compositions long before this, and I'm sure someone on this list > knows a lot about surrealist sound and mixed media performances. But as > _the_ popular art form, the new sound film presented lots of experiments in > manipulating concrete sounds into abstract patterns. (Its interesting that, > aside from von Trier's _Dancer in the Dark_, the Dogme group, committed to > diegetic sound, has done such a pitiful job of exploiting these > possibilities.) > > Oh, and here's a hats-off to Trent Reznor. _The Social Network_ was a very > well-made film whose cultural currency never quite managed to overcome the > fundamental nastiness of its "characters" to make it as popular as people > thought it would be. But the score is really cool. > > Jerry > > Paul Howell wrote: > >> plus Sheltering Sky >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, > junction at earthlink.net>> wrote: >> >> A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. >> >> Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. >> Les Parapluies de Cherbourg >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >> >> What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde >> and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with >> Koyaanisqatsi. >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> / Mainly Black >> < >> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1i_JGJ_FqQldEnUq7cwjV8giYykz_tsGbTkC2EkAP3IM&hl=en&pli=1# >> > >> , // Obras P?blicas >> < >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >> > >> ; // The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> < >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >> > >> ; / >> / Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> < >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >> > >> ; // Tango Bouquet >> < >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >> > >> ; // Theory of Harmony >> < >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >> > >> ; / >> /Rapsodie espagnole >> < >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf>; >> //Guide >> to the Tokyo Subway >> < >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3>; >> //The >> Sonnet Project >> < >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf>; >> / >> >> /G(e)nome >> ; //Winter >> Journey ; // / >> /Eclipse ; / / >> //The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;/ >> / Transparencies & Projections >> / >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, > > wrote: >> >> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of >> Veronique, Talk To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, >> anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings of Desire, >> Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 >> 1/2.. Off the top of my head. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Crisman Cooley >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, >> Issue 16 >> >> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and >> Feldman. Haven't heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- >> though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or whatever it is >> called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) >> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my >> 14yo daughter >> kept saying "Can we fast forward this?") and remember >> the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. Still love that >> piece. >> 2001 is the only movie I can think of that >> seems to >> me dramatically to hang by the thread of the >> soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? >> >> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >> From: R Dillon > > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All >> Time >> >> >> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and >> Prokofiev: Stockhausen! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 7 16:34:07 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 16:34:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] filmscore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110307213407.0XJCP.5166.root@hrndva-web18-z02> As well as Trent Reznor for his precise score for The Social Network. G. E. Schwartz > Don't forget Erich Korngold's great scores. > > Then there's soundtrack, as opposed to score -- like American Grafitti and > The Girl Can't Help It. > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > > Seems to me there are actually two question here: what are the great > > filmscores, and what are the filmscores that are the only thing keeping a > > film from tanking ("hanging by the thread of the soundtrack"). The great > > Ennio Morricone scores for Leone's (and other, lesser) spagetti westerns > > might fit into that one. > > > > Scores by Bernard Hermann, especially for _Psycho,_ taught subsequent film > > directors about intensity, dynamics and emphasis: catching the pulse and > > adrenaline pump of viewers. And before that, E. Y. Harburg and Harold Arlen > > were given unprecedented input into narrative decisions (especially scene > > transitions) when they scored _Wizard of Oz._ > > > > Like Kurosawa (and Bergman), Fellini was a genius at exploiting precisely > > integrated compositions--in his case by Nino Rota. And French new wavers > > like Truffaut and Malle incorporated American jazz more thoroughly than any > > mainstream American director had to that point. > > > > Then there's one of the great incongruities, the Anton Karas zither score > > for Carol Reed's _The Third Man_--one of the most weirdly affecting, and > > ultimately popular, pieces of music ever associated with movies--and having > > nothing much to do with post-war Vienna, to the best of my knowledge. > > > > But the question of what exactly constitutes a film score--what combination > > of sounds adds up to something melopoeiac--is what really interests me. For > > instance, Fritz Lang's _M_ is clearly a metatext about sound (it was Lang's > > first sound film, and its plot turns around an overheard tune the > > child-murderer whistles); but it doesn't incorporate any non-diegetic music. > > Instead (and it's like Chaplin's early experiments with sound in this) it > > turns diegetic sounds into abstract components of a larger audiovisual > > construction that is all the more provocative because sound is a new element > > in film, and audiences haven't yet learned to engage with the new layering > > of sensory elements. I'm not quite up to the task of finding out how the > > 20th century's electronic composers are in fact responding to this cinematic > > phenomenon that kicks in around 1930. I know that Varese had built sirens > > into his compositions long before this, and I'm sure someone on this list > > knows a lot about surrealist sound and mixed media performances. But as > > _the_ popular art form, the new sound film presented lots of experiments in > > manipulating concrete sounds into abstract patterns. (Its interesting that, > > aside from von Trier's _Dancer in the Dark_, the Dogme group, committed to > > diegetic sound, has done such a pitiful job of exploiting these > > possibilities.) > > > > Oh, and here's a hats-off to Trent Reznor. _The Social Network_ was a very > > well-made film whose cultural currency never quite managed to overcome the > > fundamental nastiness of its "characters" to make it as popular as people > > thought it would be. But the score is really cool. > > > > Jerry > > > > Paul Howell wrote: > > > >> plus Sheltering Sky > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, >> junction at earthlink.net>> wrote: > >> > >> A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. > >> > >> Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. > >> Les Parapluies de Cherbourg > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Halvard Johnson > >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM > >> To: NewPoetry List > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 > >> > >> What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde > >> and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with > >> Koyaanisqatsi. > >> > >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > >> --David Antin > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >> > >> / Mainly Black > >> < > >> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1i_JGJ_FqQldEnUq7cwjV8giYykz_tsGbTkC2EkAP3IM&hl=en&pli=1# > >> > > >> , // Obras P?blicas > >> < > >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > >> > > >> ; // The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > >> < > >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > >> > > >> ; / > >> / Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > >> < > >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > >> > > >> ; // Tango Bouquet > >> < > >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > >> > > >> ; // Theory of Harmony > >> < > >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > >> > > >> ; / > >> /Rapsodie espagnole > >> < > >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf>; > >> //Guide > >> to the Tokyo Subway > >> < > >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3>; > >> //The > >> Sonnet Project > >> < > >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf>; > >> / > >> > >> /G(e)nome > >> ; //Winter > >> Journey ; // / > >> /Eclipse ; / / > >> //The Dance of the Red Swan > >> ;/ > >> / Transparencies & Projections > >> / > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, >> > wrote: > >> > >> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of > >> Veronique, Talk To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, > >> anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings of Desire, > >> Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 > >> 1/2.. Off the top of my head. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Crisman Cooley > >> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM > >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, > >> Issue 16 > >> > >> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and > >> Feldman. Haven't heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- > >> though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or whatever it is > >> called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) > >> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my > >> 14yo daughter > >> kept saying "Can we fast forward this?") and remember > >> the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. Still love that > >> piece. > >> 2001 is the only movie I can think of that > >> seems to > >> me dramatically to hang by the thread of the > >> soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? > >> > >> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 > >> From: R Dillon >> > > >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All > >> Time > >> > >> > >> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and > >> Prokofiev: Stockhausen! > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Prof. Jerry McGuire > > Dept. of English > > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > > 337-482-5478 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 16:36:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:36:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <16083.33088.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... those translations: Wilbur does a great Moliere. & ain't so bad with light verse & cartoons ( his own drawings ). He's not my favorite poet, but he's necessary ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 7 17:25:40 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Symposium Explores Poetry and War Message-ID: <8CDAB2DB9A79E3D-D3C-5004@Webmail-d102.sysops.aol.com> http://www.vmi.edu/show.aspx?tid=4294970021&id=4294973203 Symposium Explores Poetry and War LEXINGTON, Va., March 6, 2011 -- Anybody can classify war and poetry as a contradiction, but ?beauty in the midst of slaughter? has always been the domain of poets, and something much more thoughtful and complex. ?Yet poets as a group have no special claim to the moral high ground ? the poets I mean to honor are the ones who have looked more deeply at the dangerous power of poetry, its capacity to persuade us that the grim work of war is sublime or honorable or chivalric, and who have used their own poetic voices to question the myths so eloquently and seductively expressed by others. They are my heroes.? James A. Winn, distinguished professor of English at Boston University and director of the university?s humanities program, delivered the keynote address at Virginia Military Institute?s fourth annual Poetry Symposium, held March 4 and 5. Winn shared with the audience five poems from five time periods in history, including Richard Lovelace?s ?To Lucasta, Going to the Wars? (1609) and Philip Appleman?s ?Waiting for the Fire? (1976). Winn?s most recent book, The Poetry of War, explores six major themes: honor, shame, empire, chivalry, camaraderie, and liberty. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Mar 7 17:52:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:52:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <16083.33088.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16083.33088.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D7561A0.3040403@nut-n-but.net> On 3/7/2011 4:36 PM, stephen russell wrote: > ... those translations: Wilbur does a great Moliere. > & ain't so bad with light verse & cartoons ( his own drawings ). > > He's not my favorite poet, but he's necessary ... Good comment. So much better than "He's our greatest living poet." I would mind, "He's my favorite poet, either." Superlativity. A coinage I just thought up for the great number of people who seem to have to elect someone king of a discipline or sport or art or whatever. Now a joke that occurred to me after I typed, "He's my favorite poet": How would you like someone to tell you, "You're my favorite poet, but you're unnecessary?" --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 18:04:56 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 15:04:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <4D7561A0.3040403@nut-n-but.net> References: <16083.33088.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D7561A0.3040403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <287944.81543.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> If someone told me that, I'd say, "next time, ask my permission before I give you my opinion." On the other hand, since I'm not exactly a NaMe, I'd probably be flattered. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 5:52:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 On 3/7/2011 4:36 PM, stephen russell wrote: ... those translations: Wilbur does a great Moliere. >& ain't so bad with light verse & cartoons ( his own drawings ). > >He's not my favorite poet, but he's necessary ... > Good comment. So much better than "He's our greatest living poet." I would mind, "He's my favorite poet, either." Superlativity. A coinage I just thought up for the great number of people who seem to have to elect someone king of a discipline or sport or art or whatever. Now a joke that occurred to me after I typed, "He's my favorite poet": How would you like someone to tell you, "You're my favorite poet, but you're unnecessary?" --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Mar 7 19:03:35 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:03:35 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <33068557.1299542615723.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 7 19:51:45 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:51:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <8CDAB417A6D9DE2-14A8-30A88@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> References: <33068557.1299542615723.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDAB417A6D9DE2-14A8-30A88@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDAB4221ABDBB9-14A8-30B9C@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> I deeply admire Wilbur's poetry as a whole. Even though it doesn't match up very well with my particular sensibility. And I love hearing that as a person-poet he seems to be almost impossibly generous to so many. But I would like to ask another question: Richard Wilbur has to be one of last renowned 'old formalists' standing. Will Wilbur be last of a kind of primarily formalist poet to achieve the stature, awards, and reputation he has? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon Mar 7 22:06:06 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 22:06:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] call for submissions - Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks In-Reply-To: <287944.81543.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16083.33088.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4D7561A0.3040403@nut-n-but.net>, <287944.81543.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Submissions are now open for Whale Sound Audio Chapbooks (guidlines - http://bit.ly/9Qg3cn) ?How do you like your poetry served?? is our question at Whale Sound. Our theory is that poetry is like steak, and people like it served to them in different ways. Some prefer online text or online audio. Some prefer a printed book in their hands. Or a CD they can put into a player. We publish each audio chapbooks in all these forms and are now adding e-book format. Our most recent publications are 'Dark Refuge' by Edward Byrne (http://wschap4.wordpress.com) and 'Cloud Studies' by Christine Klocek-Lim (http://wschap3.wordpress.com). Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 22:51:51 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:51:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 In-Reply-To: <8CDAB4221ABDBB9-14A8-30B9C@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> References: <33068557.1299542615723.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDAB417A6D9DE2-14A8-30A88@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> <8CDAB4221ABDBB9-14A8-30B9C@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <672934.4289.qm@web120516.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Good lord, I hope not. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 7:51:45 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 I deeply admire Wilbur's poetry as a whole. Even though it doesn't match up very well with my particular sensibility. And I love hearing that as a person-poet he seems to be almost impossibly generous to so many. But I would like to ask another question: Richard Wilbur has to be one of last renowned 'old formalists' standing. Will Wilbur be last of a kind of primarily formalist poet to achieve the stature, awards, and reputation he has? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 22:57:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:57:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] filmscore In-Reply-To: References: <11808214.1299525585720.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D75469F.6010108@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Play Misty for Me Death and the Maiden The Piano Teacher "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Don't forget Erich Korngold's great scores. > > Then there's soundtrack, as opposed to score -- like American Grafitti and > The Girl Can't Help It. > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> Seems to me there are actually two question here: what are the great >> filmscores, and what are the filmscores that are the only thing keeping a >> film from tanking ("hanging by the thread of the soundtrack"). The great >> Ennio Morricone scores for Leone's (and other, lesser) spagetti westerns >> might fit into that one. >> >> Scores by Bernard Hermann, especially for _Psycho,_ taught subsequent film >> directors about intensity, dynamics and emphasis: catching the pulse and >> adrenaline pump of viewers. And before that, E. Y. Harburg and Harold Arlen >> were given unprecedented input into narrative decisions (especially scene >> transitions) when they scored _Wizard of Oz._ >> >> Like Kurosawa (and Bergman), Fellini was a genius at exploiting precisely >> integrated compositions--in his case by Nino Rota. And French new wavers >> like Truffaut and Malle incorporated American jazz more thoroughly than any >> mainstream American director had to that point. >> >> Then there's one of the great incongruities, the Anton Karas zither score >> for Carol Reed's _The Third Man_--one of the most weirdly affecting, and >> ultimately popular, pieces of music ever associated with movies--and having >> nothing much to do with post-war Vienna, to the best of my knowledge. >> >> But the question of what exactly constitutes a film score--what >> combination of sounds adds up to something melopoeiac--is what really >> interests me. For instance, Fritz Lang's _M_ is clearly a metatext about >> sound (it was Lang's first sound film, and its plot turns around an >> overheard tune the child-murderer whistles); but it doesn't incorporate any >> non-diegetic music. Instead (and it's like Chaplin's early experiments with >> sound in this) it turns diegetic sounds into abstract components of a larger >> audiovisual construction that is all the more provocative because sound is a >> new element in film, and audiences haven't yet learned to engage with the >> new layering of sensory elements. I'm not quite up to the task of finding >> out how the 20th century's electronic composers are in fact responding to >> this cinematic phenomenon that kicks in around 1930. I know that Varese had >> built sirens into his compositions long before this, and I'm sure someone on >> this list knows a lot about surrealist sound and mixed media performances. >> But as _the_ popular art form, the new sound film presented lots of >> experiments in manipulating concrete sounds into abstract patterns. (Its >> interesting that, aside from von Trier's _Dancer in the Dark_, the Dogme >> group, committed to diegetic sound, has done such a pitiful job of >> exploiting these possibilities.) >> >> Oh, and here's a hats-off to Trent Reznor. _The Social Network_ was a very >> well-made film whose cultural currency never quite managed to overcome the >> fundamental nastiness of its "characters" to make it as popular as people >> thought it would be. But the score is really cool. >> >> Jerry >> >> Paul Howell wrote: >> >>> plus Sheltering Sky >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM, >> junction at earthlink.net>> wrote: >>> >>> A Nous La Liberte, Sous les Toits de Paris. >>> >>> Musicals, especially Singin in the Rain and An American in Paris. >>> Les Parapluies de Cherbourg >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Halvard Johnson >>> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 1:46 PM >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16 >>> >>> What Mark added, plus Tous les matins du monde >>> and all those Glass/Reggio films that started with >>> Koyaanisqatsi. >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> --David Antin >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> / Mainly Black >>> < >>> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1i_JGJ_FqQldEnUq7cwjV8giYykz_tsGbTkC2EkAP3IM&hl=en&pli=1# >>> > >>> , // Obras P?blicas >>> < >>> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >>> > >>> ; // The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> < >>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >>> > >>> ; / >>> / Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> < >>> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >>> > >>> ; // Tango Bouquet >>> < >>> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >>> > >>> ; // Theory of Harmony >>> < >>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >>> > >>> ; / >>> /Rapsodie espagnole >>> < >>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf>; >>> //Guide >>> to the Tokyo Subway >>> < >>> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3>; >>> //The >>> Sonnet Project >>> < >>> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf>; >>> / >>> >>> /G(e)nome >>> ; //Winter >>> Journey ; // / >>> /Eclipse ; / / >>> //The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;/ >>> / Transparencies & Projections >>> / >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM, >> > wrote: >>> >>> Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, The Double Life of >>> Veronique, Talk To Her, The Red Pony, The Third Man, >>> anything by Powell and Pressburger, Wings of Desire, >>> Rohmer's Summertime, Death in Venice, The Seven Samurai, 8 >>> 1/2.. Off the top of my head. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Crisman Cooley >>> Sent: Mar 7, 2011 12:24 PM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, >>> Issue 16 >>> >>> My favorites since 1960 are probably Takemitsu and >>> Feldman. Haven't heard enough of Stockhausen to say -- >>> though his fugue with 4 helicopters (or whatever it is >>> called) is very dramatic. (I saw it on YouTube.) >>> Also just rewatched Kubrick's 2001 (my >>> 14yo daughter >>> kept saying "Can we fast forward this?") and remember >>> the thrill I had first hearing Ligeti. Still love that >>> piece. >>> 2001 is the only movie I can think of >>> that seems to >>> me dramatically to hang by the thread of the >>> soundtrack. Do any others come to mind for you? >>> >>> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:01:08 +0000 >>> From: R Dillon >> > >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Top Ten Composers of All >>> Time >>> >>> >>> The greatest composer is a combination of Ives and >>> Prokofiev: Stockhausen! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Mar 7 23:53:22 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:53:22 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur turns 90 Message-ID: <1400f.1c4fbf9.3aa71042@cs.com> In a message dated 3/7/2011 6:51:58 PM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I deeply admire Wilbur's poetry as a whole. Even though it doesn't match > up very well with my particular sensibility. > And I love hearing that as a person-poet he seems to be almost impossibly > generous to so many. > > But I would like to ask another question: Richard Wilbur has to be one of > last renowned 'old formalists' standing. > Will Wilbur be last of a kind of primarily formalist poet to achieve the > stature, awards, and reputation he has? > > Finnegan > > > He has "bucked the tides," so to speak, while others of his generation--Lowell, Wright, Simpson et al.--rolled with them. He may be the last of some kind of line, but there are plenty of younger poets who are in his debt. Including me. I don't take so much from his subject matter and general approach to things as from his manner. It is, in a very special sense, his "disinterested" manner that I envy. But, no, I don' t think there will be anyone to take his place anytime soon. Nor should there be. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 8 11:13:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 11:13:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WI PL to thumb it from now on Message-ID: <8CDABC2F7DFFD20-1E60-299A0@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-08/poet-laureate-s-2-000-gas-reimbursement-a-casualty-in-walker-s-wisconsin.html Poet Laureate's $2,000 Gas Reimbursement a Casualty in Walker's Wisconsin A career in the arts ?don?t plant no corn,? Bruce Dethlefsen?s father told him when he was a boy in Kansas City in the 1950s. Soon, his job as Wisconsin?s poet laureate may not even pay gas money. The $2,000 annual budget for the post, which Dethlefsen assumed Jan. 1, is a casualty of Governor Scott Walker?s drive for austerity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 8 11:17:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 11:17:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eliz. Bishop: Poems, Prose & Letters (Library of America) Message-ID: <8CDABC36E724950-1E60-29A6D@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> http://www.seattlepi.com/books/436721_154555-blogcritics.org.html Book Review: Elizabeth Bishop: Poems, Prose and Letters (Library of America), Edited by Lloyd Schwartz Bishop?s father died when she was just eight month's old. By age five her mother entered a mental hospital, never to see or live with her daughter again. Bishop was shuttled back and forth between her maternal and paternal grandparents until settling in with her aunt Florence Bishop, her father's sister. As the title states, Bishop's poems, prose, letters, and much more are all included here ? translations, reviews of other poets' work, short stories. Her chronological biography reads as interestingly as her poetry, detailing the incidents, travels, friendships, and love affairs that made up her life and can be glimpsed in echoes through her poetry. Bishop's long-term relationships were with women, but she didn't make them the subject of her work. She was interested in people, but not self-revelation. Even her most "intimate" work is only generally erotic. >From "Vague Poem (Vaguely Love Poem)" Just now, when I saw you naked again, I thought the same words: rose-rock, rock-rose ? Rose, trying, working, to show itself, forming, folding over, unimaginable connections, unseen, shining edges. Rose-rock, unformed, flesh beginning, crystal by crystal, clear pink breasts and darker, crystalline nipples, rose-rock, rose-quartz, roses, roses, roses, exacting roses from the body, and the even darker, accurate, rose of sex? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Tue Mar 8 11:23:27 2011 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:23:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia movie music In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E102D82-7895-4DB1-BBD2-12B621F8172D@sprintmail.com> entirely different "track" the other night PBS showed a film by Deborah Curtis widow of Ian Curtis of Joy Division Brit Punk band of late 70s I found the vocals very driving, warm, enjoyable rocking and rollicking and more. If you hate that style this won't be for you but it is absolutely between 60s rock and 80s cooler punk and very sound/vocals/muffled but catchy lyrics. supposedly anti romantic but the story is almost totally sorrows of young Ian... In fact he hanged himself at 23. the work is worthwhile. From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Tue Mar 8 11:20:03 2011 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:20:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] tous les matins du monde In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: that is one lush film soundtrack also some of the dialog very rich and lush Something like, "all she would eat was crushed peaches" From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 8 14:44:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:44:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math art Message-ID: <8CDABE051821C73-1364-F67F@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> http://www.anneburns.net/enter.html http://www.ams.org/mathimagery/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 8 15:05:26 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:05:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sidewalk Poetry in St. Paul Message-ID: <8CDABE34C96E5C5-1364-FBE9@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?NID=2820 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 15:17:38 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:17:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Libya, a Feast for All Message-ID: "Libya is currently the menu served to the world and diverse interest groups have the opportunity of engaging their appetite. It is time to help Gaddafi devour his own people. The feast is ready but the devourers are still few." The full text of "Libya, a Feast for All" can be accessed at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5681868-184/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Mar 8 16:51:12 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:51:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Tomorrow_at_the_Grad_Center=3A_Jeffery_All?= =?utf-8?b?ZW4sIEFuYSBCb8W+acSNZXZpxIcsIEdyZWdvcnkgTGF5bm9yLCBBc3RyaWQg?= =?utf-8?q?Lorange=2C_Christopher_Nealon_and_Paul_Oppenheimer?= Message-ID: <729832.82490.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wed Mar 9, 6:30pm Turnstyle Reading Series Jeffery Allen and Paul Oppenheimer Turnstyle is a cross-genre MFA reading series at The Graduate Center, CUNY, featuring a mix of non-fiction, plays, fiction, and poems by the faculty and students of four CUNY graduate creative writing programs. This evening, students will be joined by award-winning poet and fiction writer Jeffery Renard Allen (Queens College), whose Song of the Shank is forthcoming this year from Graywolf Press, and Paul Oppenheimer (City College), novelist, poet, journalist, biographer, and translator, who will read from In Times of Danger, his newly-published book of poems. co-sponsored by the Office of Academic Affairs, the CUNY MFA Affiliation Group Martin E. Segal Theatre Wed Mar 9, 7pm Tendencies: Poetics and Practice Ana Bo?i?evi?, Gregory Laynor, Astrid Lorange, and Christopher Nealon Tendencies is a series of talks on queer poetics curated by Tim Peterson (Trace) and titled in honor of Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick. The series invites artists from a variety of disciplines to explore the relationship between queer theory, poetic manifesto, poetic practice, and pedagogy. This event will feature a joint presentation by the poet and scholar Gregory Laynor, who is currently co-editing for Chax Press the collected writings of the Gil Ott, and Astrid Lorange, visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania; the Lambda Literary Award in Poetry Finalist Ana Bo?i?evi?; and the scholar and poet Christopher Nealon, whose The Matter of Capital: Poetry and Crisis in The American Century is forthcoming this year from Harvard University Press. co-sponsored by the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, the Ph.D. Program in English, the Poetics Group The Skylight Room (9100) All events take place at The Graduate Center, CUNY, 365 Fifth Ave btwn 34th & 35th. The building and the venues are fully accessible. For more information please call 212/817.2005 or e-mail ch at gc.cuny.edu. http://www.centerforthehumanitiesgc.org ******** VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 8 18:35:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:35:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math art In-Reply-To: <8CDABE051821C73-1364-F67F@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDABE051821C73-1364-F67F@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D76BD39.1000600@nut-n-but.net> On 3/8/2011 2:44 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.anneburns.net/enter.html > http://www.ams.org/mathimagery/ Fun stuff but I'm more interested art that IS mathemathics that art made by mathematics. A circle is not mathematical because you use a formula to draw it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Mar 8 18:53:19 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 18:53:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry blog Message-ID: ...that was new to me -- http://galatearesurrects.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 08:34:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:34:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh Tad, you do not read my mails! I usually send in Eileen Tabios's updates, :-( but good you have discovered it... Anny On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > ...that was new to me -- http://galatearesurrects.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 11 14:56:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:56:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems The 10 best American poems Posted by Jay Parini Friday 11 March 2011 12.56 GMT guardian.co.uk The list could go on and on, but these are the poems that seem to me to have left the deepest mark on US literature ? and me -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Sat Mar 12 10:30:17 2011 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 09:30:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Job Opening: Assistant Professor (Creative Writing/Poetry), Columbia College Chicago Message-ID: <4D7B9189.6030604@starve.org> Assistant Professor of English: Creative Writing?Poetry The English Department at Columbia College Chicago seeks applications for a full-time faculty position in Creative Writing?Poetry, to begin August 2011. We will hire in this position on the tenure-track OR as a one-year replacement, depending on the applicant pool. Qualifications include at least one published book (poetry), solid record of magazine/journal publications, MFA or PhD or equivalent, and college-level teaching experience. The position includes teaching in both an undergraduate program (offering a B. A. in Creative Writing-Poetry) and MFA program, as well as advising, administrative duties within the Poetry Program, and college service. Poets who would enhance the diversity of gender, cultural, ethnic, or national perspectives within the department are particularly encouraged to apply. Review of applications to begin on April 1, 2011. How To Apply For questions about the online application please review the FAQs available at: https://employment.colum.edu/psp/careers/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_HM_PRE&Action=A&SiteId=1. At the start of the on-line application when you are asked to upload a resume/CV, please upload one pdf document that combines your cover letter, CV, 10-page sample of poetry (scans are fine), sample syllabus for undergraduate or graduate-level poetry workshop, and statement of teaching philosophy. Do NOT upload each document separately. In addition, at least two letters of recommendation should be sent separately as hard copies to: Nicole Wilson, Associate Program Director, Creative Writing Department of English Columbia College Chicago 600 S. Michigan Ave. Chicago, IL 60605 Please complete all required fields of the on-line application indicated by an (*), including work experience, highest education information, the names and contact information for three references (though only two letters are required), and referral information. You will receive an e-mail confirmation once you have successfully submitted your application. If you experience initial technical difficulties, please e-mail careers at colum.edu. If difficulties persist, contact Nicole Wilson directly at nwilson at colum.edu. Equal Employment Opportunity Columbia College Chicago encourages qualified female, LGBTQ, disabled, and minority individuals to apply for all positions. For more information, please visit us at: www.COLUM.edu About Columbia Columbia College Chicago is an urban institution of over 12,000 undergraduate and graduate students emphasizing arts, media, and communications in a liberal arts setting. From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 12 12:07:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:07:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Lost & Found: Series II Now Available! Books by di Prima, Duncan, Randall, Rukeyser, and Spicer. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDAEEF103F5E05-1468-190E1@webmail-d141.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Bozicevic, Ana To: POETRY-l at GC.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: Lost & Found: Series II Now Available! Books by di Prima, Duncan, Randall, Rukeyser, and Spicer. Dear Reader, You may have gotten a complimentary copy of the first set of Lost & Found chapbooks, you may have bought one at City Lights or St Marks Bookstore, purchased one at a Lost & Found event in New York, or read about it in the Poetry Project Newsletter or the London Review blog. The first series is already out of print: we hope to bring out a second edition as demand increases but we need your support, and the best way to support us is to subscribe to the second series. Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative is happy to announce that our second series is now available at a pre-publication discount. For $25, you will get the following set of beautifully printed chapbooks: Selections from El Corno Emplumado / The Plumed Horn1962-1964 (Margaret Randall, visiting editor) Diane di Prima: The Mysteries of Vision: Some Notes on H.D. (Ana Bozicevic, editor) Diane di Prima: R.D.?S H.D. (Ammiel Alcalay, editor) Robert Duncan: Olson Memorial Lecture (Ammiel Alcalay, Meira Levinson, Bradley Lubin, Megan Paslawski, Kyle Waugh, and Rachael Wilson, editors) Jack Spicer?s Beowulf: Selections (Parts I& II) (David Hadbawnik and Sean Reynolds, guest editors) Muriel Rukeyser: Barcelona, 1936: Selections from the Spanish Civil War Archive (Rowena Kennedy-Epstein, editor) Those who have come to our events, like the tribute to Muriel Rukeyser or the electrifying reading by Diane di Prima, know very well what kind of energy Lost & Found has generated. Those getting to know the scholarship of our graduate students realize that a new generation of cultural critics and literary historians is in the making. In order to continue our work, we need your support: please subscribe to make sure you get the second series before it, too, goes out of print. And consider making a donation so that we can move on to the third series, which includes works by Lorine Niedecker, John Wieners, Ed Dorn, Essex Hemphill, Langston Hughes and others. You can order the books online at http://lostandfoundbooks.org/ or mail in the attached order form. Spread the word: we appreciate your interest and look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Ammiel Alcalay, General Editor Aoibheann Sweeney, Director of the Center for the Humanities ======================================== You are subscribed to the POETRY-l List with e-mail address jforjames at AOL.COM To unsubscribe at any time, please follow these UNSUBSCRIBE instructions: end any email (subject and text are ignored) to POETRY-l-SIGNOFF-REQUEST at GC.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU or click here: ttps://gc.listserv.cuny.edu/scriptsgc/wa-gc.exe?SUBED1=POETRY-l&A=1&s=jforjames at AOL.COM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: 2011_order_form_final.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 131163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 13 19:18:04 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 19:18:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poem of the Week- Joshua Poteat In-Reply-To: <20110313190727.1966@web004.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20110313190727.1966@web004.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <8CDAFEC09ADF2BA-1E98-21B21@Webmail-m117.sysops.aol.com> From: PoemoftheWeek at poemoftheweek.org To: andrewmk at andrewmk.com Sent: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:07 pm Subject: Poem of the Week- Joshua Poteat Dear PoemoftheWeek Subscriber, l This week PoemoftheWeek.org features two poems from Joshua Poteat's second collection of poems, Illustrating the Machine that Makes the World as well as a review of the book and a Podcast by yours truly, an interview with Dislocate, an audio recording of Mr. Poteat reading from his work, and an author bio. I hope you enjoy. l My best, l Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, Founder & Editor l Contact us at AndrewMcFadyenKetchum at PoemoftheWeek.org l Donate to PoemoftheWeek.org at http://poemoftheweek.org/id294.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 11:42:00 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:42:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Makes for a delightful anthology. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems > > The 10 best American poems > Posted by > Jay Parini Friday 11 March 2011 12.56 GMT > guardian.co.uk > > The list could go on and on, but these are the poems that seem to me to > have left the deepest mark on US literature ? and me > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Mar 14 15:09:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:09:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, > wrote: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems > The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten poems by Stevens. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Mar 14 14:27:15 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <889471.5513.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The top this/top that type of anthology gets tiresome. Finding a unique context would make for something ... maybe fun ... TOP ROAD KILL POEMS ... ________________________________ From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 11:42:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Makes for a delightful anthology. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems > >The 10 best American poems >Posted by > Jay Parini Friday 11 March 2011 12.56 GMT >guardian.co.uk > >The list could go on and on, but these are the poems that seem to me to have >left the deepest mark on US literature ? and me > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Mar 14 17:08:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:08:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <889471.5513.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <889471.5513.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D7E83DC.5080809@nut-n-but.net> >> The top this/top that type of anthology gets tiresome. >> Finding a unique context would make for something ... >> maybe fun ... TOP ROAD KILL POEMS ... I'm still waiting for the list of the ten worst collections of poetry of the year. It would be as silly as the lists of the ten best, but at least a change. And it would be fun to see what books made both lists. --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Mar 15 01:49:07 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 05:49:07 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Like Bob, I?d have gone for another Stevens poem, something from Harmonium, possibly ?Sunday Morning? or more likely ?Le Monocle de Mon Oncle?, but if you?re going to pick something from the post-Harmonium period, ?Key West? is surely the obvious choice. (For what it?s worth, it?s the third most frequent Stevens poem I return to.) But thinking about Bob?s comment, and Parini?s choice of that poem, taken with the other choices he makes it says something about his taste ? towards the sparse and bare. The good side of this is that it leads him to include Anne Bradstreet (though there again I?d have made a different choice, ?On the Burning of My House?) but whatthehell, any list of ten that includes both Bradstreet and Emily Dickinson can?t be all bad. Shame that he no longer edits Poetry, as this insight into his taste&judgement would enable more targeted submissions to that magazine. Was it under his editorship that Poetry was running almost 50/50 in terms of a male/female balance? I don?t think the Vida report gave enough detail to know. Robin. (?Figures don?t lie, but they sure as hell have a habit of mumbling sometimes.?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 7:09 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten poems by Stevens. --Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 10:25:10 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:25:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I do love "Le Monocle...". For me the Stevens poem I would grab first is "The Snow Man." Parini's list seems unexceptional to me--if you're doing a list of only 10 great poems, it's pretty hard to go wrong. These are all great poems, and I don't care if they're the "best." It would be an excellent start for any student who had not yet encountered much classic American poetry. Seems to me these "best of" lists are best understood as pedagogical tools. I am always interested in following up on such lists when I respect the writer making them. In particular, I like to check out any works I don't know, or know well. Randall Jarrell's list of the best poems by Frost (including ones that were not very well known before he published his groundbreaking essay) was my first way into realizing that Frost is a great, great poet. I was glad to see that Parini selected Frost's "Directive," agreeing with Jarrell that it is one of the few masterpieces he wrote after his first three books. It was also good to see Hayden's "Middle Passage," a poem that ought to be better known by a poet who is as good as they come. In a better world he'd be getting the same kind of press that Elizabeth Bishop now enjoys. He was similiarly unprolific and a perfectionist, and never published a bad poem. "Those Winter Sundays" is in most of the anthologies, and deserves to be. But he wrote a lot of other wonderful poems. "Middle Passage" is as good as "The Waste Land." Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. In addition to writing poetry, Parini's written biographies of Frost, Steinbeck & Faulkner, the novel *The Last Station*, which was made into a movie with Helen Mirren & Christopher Plummer, and a lot more. I see from Amazon that he has published a book titled *Promised Land: 13 Books That Changed America*, which I am sure would also tick people off with its inclusions and exclusions. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Like Bob, I?d have gone for another Stevens poem, something from Harmonium, possibly ?Sunday Morning? or more likely ?Le Monocle de Mon Oncle?, but if you?re going to pick something from the post-Harmonium period, ?Key West? is surely the obvious choice. (For what it?s worth, it?s the third most frequent Stevens poem I return to.) > > But thinking about Bob?s comment, and Parini?s choice of that poem, taken with the other choices he makes it says something about his taste ? towards the sparse and bare. The good side of this is that it leads him to include Anne Bradstreet (though there again I?d have made a different choice, ?On the Burning of My House?) but whatthehell, any list of ten that includes both Bradstreet and Emily Dickinson can?t be all bad. > > Shame that he no longer edits Poetry, as this insight into his taste&judgement would enable more targeted submissions to that magazine. Was it under his editorship that Poetry was running almost 50/50 in terms of a male/female balance? I don?t think the Vida report gave enough detail to know. > > Robin. > > (?Figures don?t lie, but they sure as hell have a habit of mumbling sometimes.?) > > > From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 7:09 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems > The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten poems by Stevens. > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 10:54:08 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:54:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 11:25:47 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:25:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: The *point* of a top-ten list is excluding huge swaths of whatever you're listing. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:54 AM, wrote: > The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes huge > swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating an > insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of simply not > including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he possibly be > unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? Oppen? Niedecker? > O'Hara? > > This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can always > do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to represent the field. > Personal taste always comes into play, but more inclusiveness limits the > degree to which it distorts. And of course it helps to state upfront what > one is about, what one knows about one's own enthusiasms and limitations. > > Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like will > make it go away. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > Sent: Mar 15, 2011 10:25 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > I do love "Le Monocle...". For me the Stevens poem I would grab first is > "The Snow Man." > > Parini's list seems unexceptional to me--if you're doing a list of only 10 > great poems, it's pretty hard to go wrong. These are all great poems, and I > don't care if they're the "best." It would be an excellent start for any > student who had not yet encountered much classic American poetry. Seems to > me these "best of" lists are best understood as pedagogical tools. I am > always interested in following up on such lists when I respect the writer > making them. In particular, I like to check out any works I don't know, or > know well. > > Randall Jarrell's list of the best poems by Frost (including ones that were > not very well known before he published his groundbreaking essay) was my > first way into realizing that Frost is a great, great poet. > > I was glad to see that Parini selected Frost's "Directive," agreeing with > Jarrell that it is one of the few masterpieces he wrote after his first > three books. > > It was also good to see Hayden's "Middle Passage," a poem that ought to be > better known by a poet who is as good as they come. In a better world he'd > be getting the same kind of press that Elizabeth Bishop now enjoys. He was > similiarly unprolific and a perfectionist, and never published a bad poem. > "Those Winter Sundays" is in most of the anthologies, and deserves to be. > But he wrote a lot of other wonderful poems. "Middle Passage" is as good > as "The Waste Land." > > Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the longtime editor > of Poetry in Chicago. In addition to writing poetry, Parini's written > biographies of Frost, Steinbeck & Faulkner, the novel *The Last Station*, > which was made into a movie with Helen Mirren & Christopher Plummer, and a > lot more. I see from Amazon that he has published a book titled *Promised > Land: 13 Books That Changed America*, which I am sure would also tick > people off with its inclusions and exclusions. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Like Bob, I?d have gone for another Stevens poem, something from * > Harmonium*, possibly ?Sunday Morning? or more likely ?Le Monocle de Mon > Oncle?, but if you?re going to pick something from the post-Harmonium > period, ?Key West? is surely the obvious choice. (For what it?s worth, it?s > the third most frequent Stevens poem I return to.) > > But thinking about Bob?s comment, and Parini?s choice of that poem, taken > with the other choices he makes it says something about his taste ? towards > the sparse and bare. The good side of this is that it leads him to include > Anne Bradstreet (though there again I?d have made a different choice, ?On > the Burning of My House?) but whatthehell, any list of ten that includes > both Bradstreet and Emily Dickinson can?t be all bad. > > Shame that he no longer edits *Poetry*, as this insight into his > taste&judgement would enable more targeted submissions to that magazine. > Was it under his editorship that *Poetry* was running almost 50/50 in > terms of a male/female balance? I don?t think the Vida report gave enough > detail to know. > > Robin. > > (?Figures don?t lie, but they sure as hell have a habit of mumbling > sometimes.?) > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Bob Grumman > *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2011 7:09 PM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems >> > The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one > hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten > poems by Stevens. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 11:35:04 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:35:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <25643778.1300203304969.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 11:41:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:41:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <25643778.1300203304969.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25643778.1300203304969.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'm assuming that you mean "cynic" in the sense of dog-like. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:35 AM, wrote: > Ah, you are a cynic. > > I was addressing David's suggestion of the list's usefulness for teaching. > Innocent that I am, it hadn't occurred to me that its usefulness might be > precisely in its erasures. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:25 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > The *point* of a top-ten list is excluding huge swaths > of whatever you're listing. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:54 AM, wrote: > >> The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes huge >> swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating an >> insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of simply not >> including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he possibly be >> unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? Oppen? Niedecker? >> O'Hara? >> >> This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can >> always do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to represent the >> field. Personal taste always comes into play, but more inclusiveness limits >> the degree to which it distorts. And of course it helps to state upfront >> what one is about, what one knows about one's own enthusiasms and >> limitations. >> >> Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like >> will make it go away. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Graham >> Sent: Mar 15, 2011 10:25 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> I do love "Le Monocle...". For me the Stevens poem I would grab first is >> "The Snow Man." >> >> Parini's list seems unexceptional to me--if you're doing a list of only 10 >> great poems, it's pretty hard to go wrong. These are all great poems, and I >> don't care if they're the "best." It would be an excellent start for any >> student who had not yet encountered much classic American poetry. Seems to >> me these "best of" lists are best understood as pedagogical tools. I am >> always interested in following up on such lists when I respect the writer >> making them. In particular, I like to check out any works I don't know, or >> know well. >> >> Randall Jarrell's list of the best poems by Frost (including ones that >> were not very well known before he published his groundbreaking essay) was >> my first way into realizing that Frost is a great, great poet. >> >> I was glad to see that Parini selected Frost's "Directive," agreeing with >> Jarrell that it is one of the few masterpieces he wrote after his first >> three books. >> >> It was also good to see Hayden's "Middle Passage," a poem that ought to be >> better known by a poet who is as good as they come. In a better world he'd >> be getting the same kind of press that Elizabeth Bishop now enjoys. He was >> similiarly unprolific and a perfectionist, and never published a bad poem. >> "Those Winter Sundays" is in most of the anthologies, and deserves to be. >> But he wrote a lot of other wonderful poems. "Middle Passage" is as good >> as "The Waste Land." >> >> Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the longtime editor >> of Poetry in Chicago. In addition to writing poetry, Parini's written >> biographies of Frost, Steinbeck & Faulkner, the novel *The Last Station*, >> which was made into a movie with Helen Mirren & Christopher Plummer, and a >> lot more. I see from Amazon that he has published a book titled *Promised >> Land: 13 Books That Changed America*, which I am sure would also tick >> people off with its inclusions and exclusions. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> Like Bob, I?d have gone for another Stevens poem, something from * >> Harmonium*, possibly ?Sunday Morning? or more likely ?Le Monocle de Mon >> Oncle?, but if you?re going to pick something from the post-Harmonium >> period, ?Key West? is surely the obvious choice. (For what it?s worth, it?s >> the third most frequent Stevens poem I return to.) >> >> But thinking about Bob?s comment, and Parini?s choice of that poem, taken >> with the other choices he makes it says something about his taste ? towards >> the sparse and bare. The good side of this is that it leads him to include >> Anne Bradstreet (though there again I?d have made a different choice, ?On >> the Burning of My House?) but whatthehell, any list of ten that includes >> both Bradstreet and Emily Dickinson can?t be all bad. >> >> Shame that he no longer edits *Poetry*, as this insight into his >> taste&judgement would enable more targeted submissions to that magazine. >> Was it under his editorship that *Poetry* was running almost 50/50 in >> terms of a male/female balance? I don?t think the Vida report gave enough >> detail to know. >> >> Robin. >> >> (?Figures don?t lie, but they sure as hell have a habit of mumbling >> sometimes.?) >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Bob Grumman >> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2011 7:09 PM >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: >> >> >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems >>> >> The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one >> hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten >> poems by Stevens. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 11:46:13 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:46:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <24460969.1300203974030.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 13:06:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:06:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D7F9CAC.2000901@nut-n-but.net> A huge problem for me, but not--apparently anyone else--is how to rate effectiveness of a poem versus importance of a poem, as I defined the two some time back: an effective poem is one that works as a poem; an important poem does something valuably new that no poem did before or that no poem did /effectively/ before. No problem if a poem is both effective and important. But a big problem if, as in the case of Stevens for me, one poem, like "The Snow Man" has an effectiveness rating of 8, say, and an importance rating of 3, and "The Man on the Dump" has an effectiveness rating of 6 and in importance rating of 6. Which is better? (Assuming, of course, that the numbers would be easy to come up with, which they wouldn't be). I wouldn't necessarily say the second because 12 is higher than 8. It might be like which baseball player is better, one who hits 50 home runs and steals 20 bases or one who hits 40 homers and steals 40 bases. As for the list, it reminds me of one done at the turn of the 20th century by, I believe, /the Atlantic/, of the ten greatest American writers. Emerson, I believe, was not on it. I can't remember who else wasn't on it, only that it was pretty amusingly different from a list academics would now make of the ten greatest American writers up to 1900 or so. The comments on the list are no better: I skimmed so may not be completely right, but I don't think anyone arguing with Parini seemed to know Wilshberia is not the entire continuum of American poetry. I was dismayed, though, that one person did bring up E. E. Cummings. But he misspelled his name. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 13:11:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:11:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D7F9DBF.6010102@nut-n-but.net> How to get academics to appreciate "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening": Change the last two lines to "And I've my wife to put to sleep/ And I've my wife to put to sleep." Gotta tackle Serious Subjects. --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Mar 15 12:13:05 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:13:05 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing Poetry. Thanks for straightening me out, David. Robin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In addition to writing poetry, Parini's written biographies of Frost, Steinbeck & Faulkner, the novel *The Last Station*, which was made into a movie with Helen Mirren & Christopher Plummer, and a lot more. I see from Amazon that he has published a book titled *Promised Land: 13 Books That Changed America*, which I am sure would also tick people off with its inclusions and exclusions. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: Like Bob, I?d have gone for another Stevens poem, something from Harmonium, possibly ?Sunday Morning? or more likely ?Le Monocle de Mon Oncle?, but if you?re going to pick something from the post-Harmonium period, ?Key West? is surely the obvious choice. (For what it?s worth, it?s the third most frequent Stevens poem I return to.) But thinking about Bob?s comment, and Parini?s choice of that poem, taken with the other choices he makes it says something about his taste ? towards the sparse and bare. The good side of this is that it leads him to include Anne Bradstreet (though there again I?d have made a different choice, ?On the Burning of My House?) but whatthehell, any list of ten that includes both Bradstreet and Emily Dickinson can?t be all bad. Shame that he no longer edits Poetry, as this insight into his taste&judgement would enable more targeted submissions to that magazine. Was it under his editorship that Poetry was running almost 50/50 in terms of a male/female balance? I don?t think the Vida report gave enough detail to know. Robin. (?Figures don?t lie, but they sure as hell have a habit of mumbling sometimes.?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 7:09 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM, wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/mar/11/best-american-poems The Stevens poem is the only one that would be in my list of the top one hundred American poems, but it wouldn't even be on my list of the top ten poems by Stevens. --Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 1088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 13:17:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:17:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 9:54 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes > huge swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating > an insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of > simply not including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he > possibly be unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? > Oppen? Niedecker? O'Hara? > > This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can > always do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to > represent the field. Personal taste always comes into play, but more > inclusiveness limits the degree to which it distorts. And of course it > helps to state upfront what one is about, what one knows about one's > own enthusiasms and limitations. > > Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like > will make it go away. This is why I futilely keep calling for a list a schools of poetry, though less and less as the years go by. It seems to me academics would welcome a simple book with a section for each school, and an example of the kind of poetry done by the poets in that school (when they are in it since, of course, most poets are in more than one school of poetry). Sure, the schools comprising Wilshberia would get no more notice than many other schools much less well-known and perhaps inferior to it. So what? It would make up a hundredfold for that in other anthologies. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 13:23:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:23:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the > longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. > Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that > I?ve been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired > from editing /Poetry./ > // > /Sad smile/ > // > Thanks for straightening me out, David. > Robin Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a particular Wilshberian really mater? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 1088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 12:28:58 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:28:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> No one is fully satisfied with any anthology, often including the anthologist. Hence the ritual lament, in the introduction, about painful exclusions and such. And once enough time passes, the limitations and blinkered vision that are part of every anthology become clearer and clearer. Hence the need for new anthologies, along with new translations of the classics. The same is true of academic surveys, of course. Despite Bob's frequent call for a comprehensive list of schools of poetry, there have been many such produced, down through the years. Bob will not approve of any of them, but go into any good university library, and you'll find plenty on the shelves. None are satisfactory, for the same reason no single anthology is. And such surveys probably date even faster than the average anthology. When I teach an American literature class, I often begin by bringing in a couple standard anthologies from my own college days, and asking my students what they notice about them. I also show them some of the big literary histories of the past, including one I was assigned in a college course in American poetry. Students fairly readily are able to notice some of the more absurd exclusions--one survey from the late 1960s includes no African American poets whatsoever, for instance. Each anthology or survey is an attempt to map terrain that is always shifting and being rediscovered. That's why we need new books all the time, and more than one at any particular moment. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 9:54 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >> >> The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes huge swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating an insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of simply not including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he possibly be unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? Oppen? Niedecker? O'Hara? >> >> This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can always do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to represent the field. Personal taste always comes into play, but more inclusiveness limits the degree to which it distorts. And of course it helps to state upfront what one is about, what one knows about one's own enthusiasms and limitations. >> >> Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like will make it go away. > > This is why I futilely keep calling for a list a schools of poetry, though less and less as the years go by. It seems to me academics would welcome a simple book with a section for each school, and an example of the kind of poetry done by the poets in that school (when they are in it since, of course, most poets are in more than one school of poetry). Sure, the schools comprising Wilshberia would get no more notice than many other schools much less well-known and perhaps inferior to it. So what? It would make up a hundredfold for that in other anthologies. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 12:49:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:49:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): 1. *American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders* [ed. Eliot Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] 2. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:28 AM, David Graham wrote: > No one is fully satisfied with any anthology, often including the > anthologist. Hence the ritual lament, in the introduction, about painful > exclusions and such. And once enough time passes, the limitations and > blinkered vision that are part of every anthology become clearer and > clearer. Hence the need for new anthologies, along with new translations of > the classics. > > The same is true of academic surveys, of course. Despite Bob's frequent > call for a comprehensive list of schools of poetry, there have been many > such produced, down through the years. Bob will not approve of any of them, > but go into any good university library, and you'll find plenty on the > shelves. None are satisfactory, for the same reason no single anthology is. > And such surveys probably date even faster than the average anthology. > > When I teach an American literature class, I often begin by bringing in a > couple standard anthologies from my own college days, and asking my students > what they notice about them. I also show them some of the big literary > histories of the past, including one I was assigned in a college course in > American poetry. Students fairly readily are able to notice some of the > more absurd exclusions--one survey from the late 1960s includes no African > American poets whatsoever, for instance. > > Each anthology or survey is an attempt to map terrain that is always > shifting and being rediscovered. That's why we need new books all the time, > and more than one at any particular moment. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 3/15/2011 9:54 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > > The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes huge > swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating an > insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of simply not > including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he possibly be > unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? Oppen? Niedecker? > O'Hara? > > This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can always > do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to represent the field. > Personal taste always comes into play, but more inclusiveness limits the > degree to which it distorts. And of course it helps to state upfront what > one is about, what one knows about one's own enthusiasms and limitations. > > Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like will > make it go away. > > > This is why I futilely keep calling for a list a schools of poetry, though > less and less as the years go by. It seems to me academics would welcome a > simple book with a section for each school, and an example of the kind of > poetry done by the poets in that school (when they are in it since, of > course, most poets are in more than one school of poetry). Sure, the > schools comprising Wilshberia would get no more notice than many other > schools much less well-known and perhaps inferior to it. So what? It would > make up a hundredfold for that in other anthologies. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 13:03:52 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:03:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <7314150.1300208633065.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Mar 15 13:07:43 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:07:43 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing Poetry. Thanks for straightening me out, David. Robin Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a particular Wilshberian really mater? --Bob It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. Now your Fred Nims, there was a gentleman with real taste. If he hadn?t retired, I coulda been a contender. [Hey, there?s a name for what I just did there, spelling ?could have been? as ?coulda?. Apparently, as I learned only yesterday, it?s called ?eye dialect? (on which see the entry in Wiki). It?s not, apparently, quite the same as the transcription of non-standard speech in conventional orthography, though the Wiki piece goes on to suggest that it can mean this too. It?s beginning to do my head in. It was all so much simpler when I was young and evil and carried a spear in the Glasgow Language Wars. Then, all you had to do was avoid the use of the apostrophe and spit anytime anyone said ?dialect?. I?m a lot more broadminded these days ? I occasionally utter the word ?dialect? without wincing (though usually qualified and heavily contextualised). But even now I go a little crazy when I see an apostrophe.] Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 1088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Tue Mar 15 13:15:15 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:15:15 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net><05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <743FCF7BB5574D7D93A061F6C0C8FC75@OwnerPC> Tottel?s Miscellany ? that was the real zinger, now. Well, then. And anthologies can become their own artefacts, as did Yeats? Oxford Book of Modern Verse which, lunatic as it is, and was, is wholly unavoidable. Eddie Marsh on the other hand ... Except, un, dunno, did he include Robert Frost? R. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:49 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): 1. American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders [ed. Eliot Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] 2. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:28 AM, David Graham wrote: No one is fully satisfied with any anthology, often including the anthologist. Hence the ritual lament, in the introduction, about painful exclusions and such. And once enough time passes, the limitations and blinkered vision that are part of every anthology become clearer and clearer. Hence the need for new anthologies, along with new translations of the classics. The same is true of academic surveys, of course. Despite Bob's frequent call for a comprehensive list of schools of poetry, there have been many such produced, down through the years. Bob will not approve of any of them, but go into any good university library, and you'll find plenty on the shelves. None are satisfactory, for the same reason no single anthology is. And such surveys probably date even faster than the average anthology. When I teach an American literature class, I often begin by bringing in a couple standard anthologies from my own college days, and asking my students what they notice about them. I also show them some of the big literary histories of the past, including one I was assigned in a college course in American poetry. Students fairly readily are able to notice some of the more absurd exclusions--one survey from the late 1960s includes no African American poets whatsoever, for instance. Each anthology or survey is an attempt to map terrain that is always shifting and being rediscovered. That's why we need new books all the time, and more than one at any particular moment. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 3/15/2011 9:54 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: The problem with the list as a pedogogical tool is that it excludes huge swaths of the landscape of American poetry, thereby perpetuating an insidious partisanship. Parini seems to have no compunction of simply not including what's not to his taste. Case in point: could he possibly be unaware of the enormous influence of WCW? Olson? Creeley? Oppen? Niedecker? O'Hara? This is an issue faced by anthologists like me all the time. One can always do a book of "poems that please me," or one can try to represent the field. Personal taste always comes into play, but more inclusiveness limits the degree to which it distorts. And of course it helps to state upfront what one is about, what one knows about one's own enthusiasms and limitations. Parini behaves, on the other hand, as if ignoring what he doesn't like will make it go away. This is why I futilely keep calling for a list a schools of poetry, though less and less as the years go by. It seems to me academics would welcome a simple book with a section for each school, and an example of the kind of poetry done by the poets in that school (when they are in it since, of course, most poets are in more than one school of poetry). Sure, the schools comprising Wilshberia would get no more notice than many other schools much less well-known and perhaps inferior to it. So what? It would make up a hundredfold for that in other anthologies. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 14:54:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:54:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D7FB5EF.1000409@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 11:28 AM, David Graham wrote: > No one is fully satisfied with any anthology, often including the > anthologist. Hence the ritual lament, in the introduction, about > painful exclusions and such. And once enough time passes, the > limitations and blinkered vision that are part of every anthology > become clearer and clearer. Hence the need for new anthologies, along > with new translations of the classics. > > The same is true of academic surveys, of course. Despite Bob's > frequent call for a comprehensive list of schools of poetry, there > have been many such produced, down through the years. Bob will not > approve of any of them, but go into any good university library, and > you'll find plenty on the shelves. None are satisfactory, for the > same reason no single anthology is. And such surveys probably date > even faster than the average anthology. Please name one, David. Post 1960 or so when schools multiplied significantly. I have never seen one. And I wonder why no one has referred to me to one considering how long I've been bewailing the lack of one--to discussion groups full of poets. Moreover, the fact that for fifty years or so almost no college I know of has taught or mentioned anything but the poetry of Wilshberia, and only during the past few years has begun teaching language poetry (mainly because many of its practitioners are academics), strongly suggests to me the absence of good lists of schools of poetry. > > When I teach an American literature class, I often begin by bringing > in a couple standard anthologies from my own college days, and asking > my students what they notice about them. I also show them some of the > big literary histories of the past, including one I was assigned in a > college course in American poetry. Students fairly readily are able > to notice some of the more absurd exclusions--one survey from the late > 1960s includes no African American poets whatsoever, for instance. > > Each anthology or survey is an attempt to map terrain that is always > shifting and being rediscovered. That's why we need new books all the > time, and more than one at any particular moment. Rather than new books, of besides new books, why not an Internet list of schools widely distributed? Surely that would soon be maximally up-to-date? Limit it to contemporary North-American poetry, to make it easier to compile. surely some Wilshberian could work out a provisional list of schools of poetry familiar to most English professors. What I would most like is a language poetry or critic of language poetry break it up into schools, but they haven't seemed able to for years. I've made a start but haven't gotten far with it. What I need, as a list-maker, are examples from different schools, so it would be great for me if I could name schools and people would help me by sending me names of poems that seem to belong to those schools. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 15:03:49 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:03:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net><05324F60-DEBD -4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D7FB815.4090504@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 11:49 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price > of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? > > Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): > > 1. /American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders/ [ed. Eliot > Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] > 2. > Well, better than many but its title is ridiculously inaccurate. Jerry Rothenberg's set is better. The trouble with anthologies, unless they intelligently name and define schools, is that they are very hard to use to determine what's out there. It's too easy, for example, to perceive someone in marginal school A as being in mainstream school B because, inevitably, the poetry of the poet in question has SOMEthing in common with some mainstream school. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 14:01:10 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:01:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <32123883.1300212070912.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 14:06:32 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:06:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FB5EF.1000409@nut-n-but.net> References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> <4D7FB5EF.1000409@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9CDAD9A9-13BF-4241-BEC8-FEDF27A7F64C@ripon.edu> Bob, I said you wouldn't approve of any of the surveys I referred to, and you won't, because you look at 99.9999999% of the poetry that's out there, and dismiss it wholesale with a meaningless term, Wilshberia. Often enough while admitting that you haven't read that which you disdain. Then you act as if every poet, critic, or anthologist who fails to give equal time to the .1111111% of poetry that most interests you is a moron. You want a list? Well, go to a library & do your own damn homework. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:50 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > On 3/15/2011 11:28 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >> No one is fully satisfied with any anthology, often including the anthologist. Hence the ritual lament, in the introduction, about painful exclusions and such. And once enough time passes, the limitations and blinkered vision that are part of every anthology become clearer and clearer. Hence the need for new anthologies, along with new translations of the classics. >> >> The same is true of academic surveys, of course. Despite Bob's frequent call for a comprehensive list of schools of poetry, there have been many such produced, down through the years. Bob will not approve of any of them, but go into any good university library, and you'll find plenty on the shelves. None are satisfactory, for the same reason no single anthology is. And such surveys probably date even faster than the average anthology. > > Please name one, David. Post 1960 or so when schools multiplied significantly. I have never seen one. And I wonder why no one has referred to me to one considering how long I've been bewailing the lack of one--to discussion groups full of poets. > > Moreover, the fact that for fifty years or so almost no college I know of has taught or mentioned anything but the poetry of Wilshberia, and only during the past few years has begun teaching language poetry (mainly because many of its practitioners are academics), strongly suggests to me the absence of good lists of schools of poetry. >> >> When I teach an American literature class, I often begin by bringing in a couple standard anthologies from my own college days, and asking my students what they notice about them. I also show them some of the big literary histories of the past, including one I was assigned in a college course in American poetry. Students fairly readily are able to notice some of the more absurd exclusions--one survey from the late 1960s includes no African American poets whatsoever, for instance. >> >> Each anthology or survey is an attempt to map terrain that is always shifting and being rediscovered. That's why we need new books all the time, and more than one at any particular moment. > > Rather than new books, of besides new books, why not an Internet list of schools widely distributed? Surely that would soon be maximally up-to-date? > Limit it to contemporary North-American poetry, to make it easier to compile. surely some Wilshberian could work out a provisional list of schools of poetry familiar to most English professors. What I would most like is a language poetry or critic of language poetry break it up into schools, but they haven't seemed able to for years. I've made a start but haven't gotten far with it. > > What I need, as a list-maker, are examples from different schools, so it would be great for me if I could name schools and people would help me by sending me names of poems that seem to belong to those schools. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 15:14:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:14:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 12:07 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the >> longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. >> Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that >> I?ve been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired >> from editing /Poetry./ >> // >> /Sad smile/ >> // >> Thanks for straightening me out, David. >> Robin >> > Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a > particular Wilshberian really mater? > > --Bob > It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. Well, all Wilshberians reject my poetry and that of those doing similar poetry, Robin. Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. You mean WIlshberia? No, its dominance may not any longer be chronologized as "contemporary" but as c.1960 to c. 2005, but it's set. I may start needing a name for the annex now even Bollingened to it, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 15:14:44 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:14:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I know I always mention this one, but to my mind one of the best and certainly most eclectic anthologies I've ever read is Milton Klonsky's *Shake the Kaleidoscope*, from 1973. Still a few copies to be found in used book shops. I wish it were still in print: I'd probably teach from it. It's pretty much all there: formalists, Beats, Black Mt., Objectivists, high Modernists, Imagists, surrealists, concrete & visual poets, populists, The Movement, New York School, deep imagists, African Americans, and a good smattering of unclassifiable oddballs like Kenneth Fearing, Samuel Greenberg, Samuel Menashe, and Russell Edson. I know of no poetry anthology that has ever spread a winder aesthetic net. Does anyone? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 11:49 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price > of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? > > Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): > > 1. American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders [ed. Eliot Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] > 2. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnel.jones at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 15:35:10 2011 From: donnel.jones at gmail.com (Donnel Jones) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:35:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds must know. Thanks, Don On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 12:07 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the > longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. > > Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve > been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing > *Poetry.* > ** > * [image: Sad smile]* > ** > Thanks for straightening me out, David. > > Robin > > > > Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a > particular Wilshberian really mater? > > --Bob > > It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. > > Well, all Wilshberians reject my poetry and that of those doing similar > poetry, Robin. > > Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. > > You mean WIlshberia? No, its dominance may not any longer be chronologized > as "contemporary" but as c.1960 to c. 2005, but it's set. I may start > needing a name for the annex now even Bollingened to it, though. > > --Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 15:46:26 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:46:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I swear by John Ciardi's "How Does a Poem Mean?". I buy every single copy of it I see and give most of them away. It is a textbook more than a comprehensive anthology, but it has examples of nearly everything I need for teaching. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 15:47:32 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:47:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <6842531.1300218452722.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:21:49 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:21:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net> <05324F60-DEBD-4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Rothenberg/Joris, *Poems for the Millennium*? "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM, David Graham wrote: > I know I always mention this one, but to my mind one of the best and > certainly most eclectic anthologies I've ever read is Milton Klonsky's > *Shake the Kaleidoscope*, from 1973. Still a few copies to be found in used > book shops. I wish it were still in print: I'd probably teach from it. > > It's pretty much all there: formalists, Beats, Black Mt., Objectivists, > high Modernists, Imagists, surrealists, concrete & visual poets, populists, > The Movement, New York School, deep imagists, African Americans, and a good > smattering of unclassifiable oddballs like Kenneth Fearing, Samuel > Greenberg, Samuel Menashe, and Russell Edson. > > I know of no poetry anthology that has ever spread a winder aesthetic net. > > Does anyone? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 11:49 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price > of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? > > Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): > > 1. *American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders* [ed. Eliot > Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] > 2. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:23:35 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:23:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <540496401C0D4E239949A1B4238532AD@OwnerPC> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: We never ask such questions here for fear that BG will actually attempt to answer them. Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude means. You might have better luck. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Donnel Jones wrote: > Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it > a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds > must know. > > Thanks, > > Don > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 3/15/2011 12:07 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the >> longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. >> >> Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve >> been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing >> *Poetry.* >> ** >> * [image: Sad smile]* >> ** >> Thanks for straightening me out, David. >> >> Robin >> >> >> >> Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a >> particular Wilshberian really mater? >> >> --Bob >> >> It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. >> >> Well, all Wilshberians reject my poetry and that of those doing similar >> poetry, Robin. >> >> >> Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. >> >> You mean WIlshberia? No, its dominance may not any longer be >> chronologized as "contemporary" but as c.1960 to c. 2005, but it's set. I >> may start needing a name for the annex now even Bollingened to it, though. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 17:29:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:29:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 2:35 PM, Donnel Jones wrote: > Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? > Is it a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and > inquiring minds must know. It's that portion of the contemporary poetry continuum from the formalism of Wilbur to the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery. Somewhere in the middle of it is Iowa Plaintext Poetry, which is more or less the same as Donald Hall's McPoem. The 0.111111% of American poetry it leaves out is visual poetry, mathematical poetry, language poetry, contra-genteel poetry (the Bukowski school), performance poetry, cyber poetry, hypertextual poetry, cryptographic poetry, sound poetry, infraverbal poetry (although that's a form of language poetry, along with sprungrammatic poetry, or poetry doing significant tricks with syntax or inflection) and others I'm either unaware of or don't consider poetry, like asemic poetry. Haiku maybe non-Wilshberian, too, although several noted Wilshberian poets compose haiku. Haiku seem to lack academic status although they're probably somewhat known to some academics, maybe even as more than 5/7/5 poems). Unless you believe, with David Graham, that such work is no more poetry than what "two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth" do is baseball. I coined the term sometime in the nineties after reading a "Best American Poetry" Volume whose editor boasted in his introduction of his broadness of taste, which went from "Wilbur to Ashbery." I believe he had read every issue of some 17 magazines that published poetry, such as /the Atlantic/, /the New Yorker/, /the Hudson Review/, /APR, Poetry/, etc., but that may have been another Best Poetry editor. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 17:39:54 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:39:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <29537194.1300200848437.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D7F9F40.9000702@nut-n-but.net><05324F60-DEBD -4C6F-A848-A1907FFE0266@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D7FDCAA.8080605@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 2:14 PM, David Graham wrote: > I know I always mention this one, but to my mind one of the best and > certainly most eclectic anthologies I've ever read is Milton Klonsky's > *Shake the Kaleidoscope*, from 1973. Still a few copies to be found > in used book shops. I wish it were still in print: I'd probably teach > from it. > > It's pretty much all there: formalists, Beats, Black Mt., > Objectivists, high Modernists, Imagists, surrealists, concrete & > visual poets, populists, The Movement, New York School, deep imagists, > African Americans, and a good smattering of unclassifiable oddballs > like Kenneth Fearing, Samuel Greenberg, Samuel Menashe, and Russell > Edson. > It does sound good, although language poetry is missing, and it was important by then. Bukowski may have been important by then, too. I think of him as different from the beats, but maybe not. > I know of no poetry anthology that has ever spread a wider aesthetic net. > > Does anyone? Not I. And that was 38 years ago. Why not? One reason is obvious: that around 1970 was when poetries exploded into too many varieties to be easy to keep track of. Or for the Establishment easily to contain, so it had to ignore most or all of the new ones. I suspect, too, that the anthology was not popular, and had too few visual poems, or few good ones, to inspire many readers to follow up on it into not only other visual poetry but other forms of what I call pluraesthetic poetry, or poetry, like visual poetry, and mathematical poetry, that employs more than one expressive modality to significant aesthetic effect. That and language poetry is where the expansion of poetry schools has occurred. --Bob --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 17:41:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:41:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FDCED.3040500@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 2:46 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > I swear by John Ciardi's "How Does a Poem Mean?". I buy every single > copy of it I see and give most of them away. It is a textbook more > than a comprehensive anthology, but it has examples of nearly > everything I need for teaching. That was an important book for me, but it was pre-Wilshberian. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 16:38:06 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:38:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: So these days Bukowski is not in Wilshberia? Nor Saul Williams? Interesting. At times you seem to define the term purely in technical fashion--as any poetry that fails to innovate; that uses nothing but techniques that were available 50 years ago. By such a definition, of course, Bukowski and most all performance poetry would fit squarely into Wilshberia. As would haiku and most, if not all, of the poetry termed language-centered. At other times, though, you appear to employ the term to mean anything not popular in academia or certain establishment outlets. Which raises its own issues, of course, including the fact that most all the poetry mentioned above is firmly entrenched in various academic outposts. And the fact that there are plenty of mainstream anthologies that now feature "contra-genteel" poetry, language poetry, performance poetry, and so forth. But, as I have said, Wilshberia is at best a useless term. At worst, it's actually meaningless. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 15, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 2:35 PM, Donnel Jones wrote: >> >> Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds must know. > It's that portion of the contemporary poetry continuum from the formalism of Wilbur to the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery. Somewhere in the middle of it is Iowa Plaintext Poetry, which is more or less the same as Donald Hall's McPoem. The 0.111111% of American poetry it leaves out is visual poetry, mathematical poetry, language poetry, contra-genteel poetry (the Bukowski school), performance poetry, cyber poetry, hypertextual poetry, cryptographic poetry, sound poetry, infraverbal poetry (although that's a form of language poetry, along with sprungrammatic poetry, or poetry doing significant tricks with syntax or inflection) and others I'm either unaware of or don't consider poetry, like asemic poetry. Haiku maybe non-Wilshberian, too, although several noted Wilshberian poets compose haiku. Haiku seem to lack academic status although they're probably somewhat known to some academics, maybe even as more than 5/7/5 poems). Unless you believe, with David Graham, that such work is no more poetry than what "two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth" do is baseball. > > I coined the term sometime in the nineties after reading a "Best American Poetry" Volume whose editor boasted in his introduction of his broadness of taste, which went from "Wilbur to Ashbery." I believe he had read every issue of some 17 magazines that published poetry, such as the Atlantic, the New Yorker, the Hudson Review, APR, Poetry, etc., but that may have been another Best Poetry editor. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 17:45:24 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:45:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > We never ask such questions here for fear that > BG will actually attempt to answer them. > > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude > means. You might have better luck. Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's is of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned down all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. I certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnel.jones at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:51:26 2011 From: donnel.jones at gmail.com (Donnel Jones) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:51:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <6842531.1300218452722.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6842531.1300218452722.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: And yet no anwer. Why are you sorry you asked? Oy. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > Oy. Sorry you asked. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donnel Jones > Sent: Mar 15, 2011 3:35 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it > a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds > must know. > > Thanks, > > Don > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 3/15/2011 12:07 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the >> longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. >> >> Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve >> been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing >> *Poetry.* >> ** >> * [image: Sad smile]* >> ** >> Thanks for straightening me out, David. >> >> Robin >> >> >> >> Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a >> particular Wilshberian really mater? >> >> --Bob >> >> It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. >> >> Well, all Wilshberians reject my poetry and that of those doing similar >> poetry, Robin. >> >> Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. >> >> You mean WIlshberia? No, its dominance may not any longer be >> chronologized as "contemporary" but as c.1960 to c. 2005, but it's set. I >> may start needing a name for the annex now even Bollingened to it, though. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnel.jones at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:51:57 2011 From: donnel.jones at gmail.com (Donnel Jones) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:51:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <6842531.1300218452722.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6842531.1300218452722.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I mean, why are you sorry I asked? On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > Oy. Sorry you asked. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donnel Jones > Sent: Mar 15, 2011 3:35 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it > a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds > must know. > > Thanks, > > Don > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 3/15/2011 12:07 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> On 3/15/2011 11:13 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> >> Jay Parini, by the way, is not Joseph Parisi, who was the >> longtime editor of Poetry in Chicago. >> >> Oops, my bad ? and not even a recent confusion. I just realised that I?ve >> been confusing/conflating the two ever since Fred Nims retired from editing >> *Poetry.* >> ** >> * [image: Sad smile]* >> ** >> Thanks for straightening me out, David. >> >> Robin >> >> >> >> Doesn't seem to me you were that wrong, Robin. Does the name of a >> particular Wilshberian really mater? >> >> --Bob >> >> It does when they reject your poetry, Bob. >> >> Well, all Wilshberians reject my poetry and that of those doing similar >> poetry, Robin. >> >> Going to have to rename that particular voodoo doll. >> >> You mean WIlshberia? No, its dominance may not any longer be >> chronologized as "contemporary" but as c.1960 to c. 2005, but it's set. I >> may start needing a name for the annex now even Bollingened to it, though. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnel.jones at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:54:49 2011 From: donnel.jones at gmail.com (Donnel Jones) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:54:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thanks for your answer. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 2:35 PM, Donnel Jones wrote: > > Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "Wilshberia" or "WIlshberia" mean? Is it > a conflation of Wilbur and Ashbery? I'm new to this site and inquiring minds > must know. > > It's that portion of the contemporary poetry continuum from the formalism > of Wilbur to the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery. Somewhere in the middle of it > is Iowa Plaintext Poetry, which is more or less the same as Donald Hall's > McPoem. The 0.111111% of American poetry it leaves out is visual poetry, > mathematical poetry, language poetry, contra-genteel poetry (the Bukowski > school), performance poetry, cyber poetry, hypertextual poetry, > cryptographic poetry, sound poetry, infraverbal poetry (although that's a > form of language poetry, along with sprungrammatic poetry, or poetry doing > significant tricks with syntax or inflection) and others I'm either unaware > of or don't consider poetry, like asemic poetry. Haiku maybe > non-Wilshberian, too, although several noted Wilshberian poets compose > haiku. Haiku seem to lack academic status although they're probably > somewhat known to some academics, maybe even as more than 5/7/5 poems). > Unless you believe, with David Graham, that such work is no more poetry than > what "two guys in Havre, Montana who like to kick a deer skull back & forth" > do is baseball. > > I coined the term sometime in the nineties after reading a "Best American > Poetry" Volume whose editor boasted in his introduction of his broadness of > taste, which went from "Wilbur to Ashbery." I believe he had read every > issue of some 17 magazines that published poetry, such as *the Atlantic*, > *the New Yorker*, *the Hudson Review*, *APR, Poetry*, etc., but that may > have been another Best Poetry editor. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:56:10 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:56:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: PofM vol.1: Futurism, Expressionism, Dada, Surrealism, Objectivism, and Negritude PofM vol.2: the Beats, the Vienna Group, the Cobra poets and artists, the Arabic-language Tammuzi poets, the creators of a new "Concrete Poetry," the "postwar poets" of Japan, the Italian Novissimi and Avan-Guardia, the Chinese Misty Poets, and the North American Language Poets, traditional "oral poets", machine art / cyberpoetics. outlaw bible of american poetry, mostly devoted to post-Beat poetry from Bukowski to Sapphire, but including some poetry by painters: Slammers, Barbarians, Meat Poets, and American Renegades Up Late: New York School Poets here, California Zen Surrealists, performance and "new wave" poets, erotic lyricists and "language" poets, new romantics -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:58:42 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:58:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany Message-ID: Marton will be in the States soon. He asked me if I know of anybody who is interested in meeting him or spending some time with him. I am therefore forwarding his reading dates should anybody be close-by. Jacksonville, at the Thomas G. Carpenter Library, University of North Florida, on Monday, April 4, at 7 p.m. Chicago, at the Joan Flasch Artists? Book Collection at the School of the Art Institute, 37 S. Wabash, 5th Floor, on Wednesday, April 6, at 5:30 p.m. Milwaukee, at the Woodland Pattern Book Center, 720 East Locust Street, on Sunday, April 10, at 2 p.m. Best wishes, anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 17:04:05 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:04:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> A corrective. Charles Bernstein was 23 in 1973. He and Bruce Andrews, who was 25, had to wait another five years to begin L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazine, which gave its name to the movement, if movement it was, and defined its membership. In 1973 they were totally unknown. Some of the other members of the original group used to hang around the West End Bar. None of them identified themselves with a group. Bukowski was just beginning to be known. -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Grumman >Sent: Mar 15, 2011 5:39 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > >On 3/15/2011 2:14 PM, David Graham wrote: >> I know I always mention this one, but to my mind one of the best and >> certainly most eclectic anthologies I've ever read is Milton Klonsky's >> *Shake the Kaleidoscope*, from 1973. Still a few copies to be found >> in used book shops. I wish it were still in print: I'd probably teach >> from it. >> >> It's pretty much all there: formalists, Beats, Black Mt., >> Objectivists, high Modernists, Imagists, surrealists, concrete & >> visual poets, populists, The Movement, New York School, deep imagists, >> African Americans, and a good smattering of unclassifiable oddballs >> like Kenneth Fearing, Samuel Greenberg, Samuel Menashe, and Russell >> Edson. >> > >It does sound good, although language poetry is missing, and it was >important by then. Bukowski may have been important by then, too. I >think of him as different from the beats, but maybe not. > >> I know of no poetry anthology that has ever spread a wider aesthetic net. >> >> Does anyone? >Not I. And that was 38 years ago. Why not? One reason is obvious: >that around 1970 was when poetries exploded into too many varieties to >be easy to keep track of. Or for the Establishment easily to contain, >so it had to ignore most or all of the new ones. I suspect, too, that >the anthology was not popular, and had too few visual poems, or few good >ones, to inspire many readers to follow up on it into not only other >visual poetry but other forms of what I call pluraesthetic poetry, or >poetry, like visual poetry, and mathematical poetry, that employs more >than one expressive modality to significant aesthetic effect. That and >language poetry is where the expansion of poetry schools has occurred. > >--Bob > >--Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 17:08:44 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:08:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <29735415.1300223324269.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Mar 15 17:19:38 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:19:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9F1FB188-B1E3-4433-8FE1-FB3EDC8B0F6E@ripon.edu> On Mar 15, 2011, at 4:04 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > A corrective. Charles Bernstein was 23 in 1973. He and Bruce Andrews, who was 25, had to wait another five years to begin L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazine, which gave its name to the movement, if movement it was, and defined its membership. In 1973 they were totally unknown. Some of the other members of the original group used to hang around the West End Bar. None of them identified themselves with a group. Bukowski was just beginning to be known. =========== Yup. And Bukowski, for that matter, was included in Klonsky's anthology, along with quite a few poets that the Language writers would take as precursors, such as Zukovsky, Oppen, Olson, Stein, Eigner. Along with a range of others, from Wilbur to Ashbery and beyond. Bunting, Teasdale, David Jones, Hugh MacDiarmid, Robert Creeley, F. T. Prince, Bill Knott, Phliip Lamantia, Charles Reznikoff, Alan Dugan, James Schuyler, May Swenson, Weldon Kees, Robert Bly, Denise Levertov, Basil Bunting, E. E. Cummings, Anthony Hecht, Diane Wakoski, Edwin Muir, Robert Duncan, Kenneth Rexroth, Sylvia Plath, Robert Lowell, Robert Kelly, Donald Davie. . . . It really was a remarkable achievement for 1973. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:14:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:14:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-b ut.net> Message-ID: <4D7FF2D7.1090006@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 3:38 PM, David Graham wrote: > So these days Bukowski is not in Wilshberia? Nor Saul Williams? > Interesting. > > At times you seem to define the term purely in technical fashion--as > any poetry that fails to innovate; that uses nothing but techniques > that were available 50 years ago. By such a definition, of course, > Bukowski and most all performance poetry would fit squarely into > Wilshberia. As would haiku and most, if not all, of the poetry termed > language-centered. > > At other times, though, you appear to employ the term to mean anything > not popular in academia or certain establishment outlets. Which > raises its own issues, of course, including the fact that most all the > poetry mentioned above is firmly entrenched in various academic > outposts. And the fact that there are plenty of mainstream > anthologies that now feature "contra-genteel" poetry, language poetry, > performance poetry, and so forth. > > But, as I have said, Wilshberia is at best a useless term. At worst, > it's actually meaningless. Defining these terms is difficult, but I define knownstream poetry as what is taught in colleges, basically. There are always trivial exceptions. Wilshberia is a specific portion of the knownstream. It starts with neoformalism, or formalism, then come various varieties of free verse that I'd like to see named and defined but include many you named when describing /Shake the Kalaidoscope/. I'm not sure how I'd arrange them, not having tried to, but probably more or less from more heightened language to less heightened language. Eventually the beats, and the conversational poets. Then Ashbery. The poetry dominant for the longest time and possibly still dominant, Iowa plaintext, which has often been defined, somewhere in the middle. Wilshberia is definitely not the only part of the poetry continuum academia has more than slight or zero knowledge of. It is the portion that academia for a long time has considered the only poetry that really matters. That's why I left the contragenteel school out of it. And haiku and performance poetry. I'm not sure Bukowski's poetry is yet Wilshberian but I'm pretty sure that few if any other contragenteel poets's poetry is part of it. Language poetry is more innovative than Ashbery's so will never be part of Wilshberia, but it is becoming part of the knownstream. I have been inconsistent in the past about this. It now seems obvious that if we consider Wilbur's poetry the extreme right wing of the continuum and Ashbery the extreme left wing, then language poetry, being more radical than Ashbery's poetry, must stay outside Wilshberia. It is the first poetry making use of techniques not widely available fifty years or more ago, in my opinion, that seems to be gaining academic acceptance, which means a position in the knownstream. The various kinds of pluraesthetic poetry can never be Wilshberian, either, because Wilshberian poetry is strictly what I call linguexpressive, for verbal only. There's nothing wrong with either the knownstream or Wilshberia. I hope my pluraesthetic kinds of poetry are eventually knownstream. I consider my linguexpressive poetry mostly Wilshberian although some of it is language poetry. Either way, it's knownstream, or close to it. Otherstream is my word for poetry not knownstream--visual poetry, etc. Mainstream poetry includes Wilshberia and haiku and doggerel and cowboy poetry and everything that is reasonably popular, which means poetries widely practiced but not academically respectable. Hallmark verse, for instance. light verse. Limericks. It's entirely knownstream but not the whole of the knownstream, for it doesn't include certain kinds of formal verse very few people care about but that academics would know about. I consider little of this taxonomical, which is why I'm sometimes sloppy in my use of terms. Maybe someday I'll have time and the inclination to do a better job of laying it out. If a decent list of schools of current poetry finally became available, it would help a lot. As would my taxonomy, which is still under way although I'm busy on something else right now. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:16:55 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:16:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FF367.5080402@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 3:54 PM, Donnel Jones wrote: > Thanks for your answer. I hope it's helpful. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:20:57 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:20:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7FF459.3040006@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 3:58 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Marton will be in the States soon. He asked me if I know of anybody > who is interested in meeting him or spending some time with him. I am > therefore forwarding his reading dates should anybody be close-by. > > Jacksonville, at the Thomas G. Carpenter Library, University of North > Florida, on Monday, April 4, at 7 p.m. I will be spending part of 2 April with him in Jacksonville. Great with me if anyone else would like to join us. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:26:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:26:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D7FF59C.3000704@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 4:04 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > A corrective. Charles Bernstein was 23 in 1973. He and Bruce Andrews, who was 25, had to wait another five years to begin L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazine, which gave its name to the movement, if movement it was, and defined its membership. In 1973 they were totally unknown. Some of the other members of the original group used to hang around the West End Bar. None of them identified themselves with a group. Bukowski was just beginning to be known. The fact that it was named in 1973 does not mean that's when it began. There were certainly language poems before 1973, principally those of E. E. Cummings, though the language poets will dispute that. I wouldn't expect an anthology to be perfect, and agree that the one David mentioned sounds to be about as good as an anthology could be. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:29:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:29:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <9F1FB188-B1E3-4433-8FE1-FB3EDC8B0F6E@ripon.edu> References: <6518527.1300223045500.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <9F1FB188-B1E3-4433-8FE1-FB3EDC8B0F6E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4D7FF63C.4090209@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 4:19 PM, David Graham wrote: > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 4:04 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > >> A corrective. Charles Bernstein was 23 in 1973. He and Bruce Andrews, who was 25, had to wait another five years to begin L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E magazine, which gave its name to the movement, if movement it was, and defined its membership. In 1973 they were totally unknown. Some of the other members of the original group used to hang around the West End Bar. None of them identified themselves with a group. Bukowski was just beginning to be known. > =========== > > Yup. And Bukowski, for that matter, was included in Klonsky's anthology, along with quite a few poets that the Language writers would take as precursors, such as Zukovsky, Oppen, Olson, Stein, Eigner. Along with a range of others, from Wilbur to Ashbery and beyond. Bunting, Teasdale, David Jones, Hugh MacDiarmid, Robert Creeley, F. T. Prince, Bill Knott, Phliip Lamantia, Charles Reznikoff, Alan Dugan, James Schuyler, May Swenson, Weldon Kees, Robert Bly, Denise Levertov, Basil Bunting, E. E. Cummings, Anthony Hecht, Diane Wakoski, Edwin Muir, Robert Duncan, Kenneth Rexroth, Sylvia Plath, Robert Lowell, Robert Kelly, Donald Davie. . . . It really was a remarkable achievement for 1973. Okay, you've convinced me. I'd be interested to know how many copies of it were sold, and how many professors used it in their classes. --Bob From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue Mar 15 18:41:21 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:41:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthologies Message-ID: I like _The Rattle Bag_, eds. Heaney & Hughes. > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:49 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price > of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? > > > Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): > > > 1. American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders [ed. Eliot > Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] > 2. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Tue Mar 15 18:46:53 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthologies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDB17A03484230-2F0-41CEE@Webmail-m114.sysops.aol.com> 1. American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders [ed. Eliot Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] 2. The Jazz Poetry Anthology (A Midland Book) Sascha Feinstein, Yusef Komunyakaa 1991 Mill -----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anthologies I like _The Rattle Bag_, eds. Heaney & Hughes. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:49 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Once you're hooked on anthologies the need for them and the price of them keeps going up. How about a top-ten anthologies list, eh? Okay, I'll start (numbers don't matter here): 1. American Poetry Since 1950: Innovators and Outsiders [ed. Eliot Weinberger: New York: Marsilio, 1993] 2. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 15 19:55:38 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:55:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilshberia, Etc. In-Reply-To: <4D7FF2D7.1090006@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDA20.4050306@nut-n-b ut.net> <4D7FF2D7.1090006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D7FFC7A.2020607@nut-n-but.net> I admit to using "Wilshberia" and "knownstream" confusingly. They're pretty similar. I think my proper definition of them is as follows: Knownstream Poetry is poetry academics are familiar with. Wilshberia is that portion of the knownstream that contains all the poetry academics have for many years taken seriously. They rarely teach knownstream poetry that is not part of Wilshberia although that is changing, finally, with the teaching of language poetry. Otherstream poetry is poetry academics are pretty much ignorant of and just about never teach. Thanks, Donnel (and David), for giving me the opportunity to perhaps become a little less confusing on this. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 15 19:07:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:07:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Ticket Giveaway-- Czeslaw Milosz Tribute, with Robert Hass (Mar 21) In-Reply-To: <692147229.1765901300129825732.JavaMail.jboss@ptmail2.patrontechnology.com> References: <692147229.1765901300129825732.JavaMail.jboss@ptmail2.patrontechnology.com> Message-ID: <8CDB17CF35649DD-1BC8-141C7@webmail-d148.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- Sent by: 92nd Street Y Reply to the sender Win Tickets to A Celebration of Czeslaw Milosz- Mar 21 Why Translation Matters, with Grossman & Cavanagh- Mar 20 The Tenth Muse, with Adam Zagajewski- Mar 28 Bei Dao & Rosanna Warren- Mar 31 Special Offer from the Tennessee Williams Theater Festival for Poetry Center eNews Subscribers Special Offer from The New Republic for Poetry Center eNews Subscribers Special Offer from Theatre for a New Audience for Poetry Center eNews Subscribers UPCOMING: FROM THE WRITING PROGRAM: Seminar on the Book of Job with Robert Alter- Tue, Mar 22, 6-9 pm Alice Notley- Thu, Apr 7, 8:15 pm Books and Bagels: Michael Slater on Charles Dickens- Sun, Apr 17, 11 am Follow Us on Twitter! 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You can update your eNews preferences any time by visiting www.92Y.org/myprofile connect with us This e-mail was sent from 92nd Street Y Immediate removal with PatronMail? SecureUnsubscribe. = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Tue Mar 15 20:50:21 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:50:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman intends to insult. Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a real difference between the two of you. But the belittling collapse of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than Silliman's rants enlarge his. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > We never ask such questions here for fear that > BG will actually attempt to answer them. > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude > means. You might have better luck. > > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's is > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned down > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From halvard at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 21:11:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:11:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I don't think that Silliman intends his term as an insult. Could be wrong. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman > intends to insult. > > Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often > beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is > clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to > me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a > real difference between the two of you. But the belittling collapse > of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar > of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than > Silliman's rants enlarge his. > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > We never ask such questions here for fear that > > BG will actually attempt to answer them. > > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude > > means. You might have better luck. > > > > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's > is > > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned > down > > all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. I > > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 21:45:46 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:45:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: no way! he does, it is not "merely descriptive" anymore than langpo is. but I would love to read Bob in "new conceptualisms"! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Mar 15 23:16:38 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:16:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. c On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I don't think that Silliman intends his term > as an insult. Could be wrong. > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > Hal > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider > wrote: >> >> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >> intends to insult. >> >> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to >> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> > >> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >> > means. You might have better luck. >> > >> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's >> > is >> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned >> > down >> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I >> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >> > >> > --Bob >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Tue Mar 15 23:42:25 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 23:42:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > >I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. > >c > >On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >> as an insult. Could be wrong. >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >> Hal >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >> Sonnets; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; >> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >> wrote: >>> >>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >>> intends to insult. >>> >>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to >>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >>> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >>> wrote: >>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> > >>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >>> > means. You might have better luck. >>> > >>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's >>> > is >>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned >>> > down >>> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I >>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >>> > >>> > --Bob >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chris at chrislott.org Tue Mar 15 23:52:51 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:52:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. c On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, wrote: > Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Lott >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. >> >>c >> >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >>> as an insult. Could be wrong. >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >>> Hal >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>> Sonnets; >>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; >>> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >>> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>> Transparencies & Projections >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >>>> intends to insult. >>>> >>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to >>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >>>> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >>>> wrote: >>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>> > >>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >>>> > means. You might have better luck. >>>> > >>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's >>>> > is >>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned >>>> > down >>>> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I >>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >>>> > >>>> > --Bob >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From junction at earthlink.net Wed Mar 16 00:14:20 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:14:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I have no idea whether Ron would take it for a slur or deny taking it for a slur, but two things are clear: that you take it as a slur, and that Ron doesn't much like most of the poetry he places under that rubric. Myself, I'm happy with mainstream, and I'll confess to finding most of the mainstream pretty irrelevant. To me. To my way of working. I nonetheless simply mean the term as a rough way of grouping a bunch of things. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:52 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > >I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist >or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude >isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. > >c > >On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, wrote: >> Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Chris Lott >>>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >>>To: NewPoetry List >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >>> >>>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >>>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. >>> >>>c >>> >>>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >>>> as an insult. Could be wrong. >>>> >>>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>>> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >>>> Hal >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>> >>>> Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>> Sonnets; >>>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; >>>> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >>>> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>>> Transparencies & Projections >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >>>>> intends to insult. >>>>> >>>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >>>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >>>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to >>>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >>>>> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >>>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >>>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >>>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >>>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >>>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >>>>> > means. You might have better luck. >>>>> > >>>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's >>>>> > is >>>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned >>>>> > down >>>>> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I >>>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >>>>> > >>>>> > --Bob >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chris at chrislott.org Wed Mar 16 00:38:22 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:38:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: And let's not forget the Sillimanites that trail in his wake. Mainstream carries fewer such negative connotations, to my mind, but it's not all that important. I feel similarly about most of the "Post Avant" as you do the mainstream (or whatever categories it would fall under in Bob's taxonomy), but it's a big tent. c On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:14 PM, wrote: > I have no idea whether Ron would take it for a slur or deny taking it for a slur, but two things are clear: that you take it as a slur, and that Ron doesn't much like most of the poetry he places under that rubric. > > Myself, I'm happy with mainstream, and I'll confess to finding most of the mainstream pretty irrelevant. To me. To my way of working. I nonetheless simply mean the term as a rough way of grouping a bunch of things. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Lott >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:52 PM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >>I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist >>or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude >>isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. >> >>c >> >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, ? wrote: >>> Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: Chris Lott >>>>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >>>>To: NewPoetry List >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >>>> >>>>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >>>>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. >>>> >>>>c >>>> >>>>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >>>>> as an insult. Could be wrong. >>>>> >>>>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>>>> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >>>>> Hal >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>> >>>>> Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>>> Sonnets; >>>>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; >>>>> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >>>>> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>>>> Transparencies & Projections >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >>>>>> intends to insult. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >>>>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >>>>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to >>>>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >>>>>> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >>>>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >>>>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >>>>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >>>>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >>>>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >>>>>> > means. You might have better luck. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's >>>>>> > is >>>>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned >>>>>> > down >>>>>> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it.? I >>>>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --Bob >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 01:30:59 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 23:30:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: You might find some insight here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Silliman. Seems he borrowed the phrase from Poe, and used it to refer to the work found in mainstream academic magazines (which had published his own work too), journals such as Poetry Northwest, TriQuarterly, Poetry, etc. etc. He's said to have used the term early on to piss someone off. Still does piss folks off, it seems. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist > or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude > isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. > > c > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, wrote: > > Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Chris Lott > >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM > >>To: NewPoetry List > >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > >> > >>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way > >>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. > >> > >>c > >> > >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > >>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term > >>> as an insult. Could be wrong. > >>> > >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > >>> --David Antin > >>> Hal > >>> Halvard Johnson > >>> ================ > >>> > >>> halvard at gmail.com > >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >>> > >>> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other > >>> Sonnets; > >>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of > Harmony; > >>> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > >>> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > >>> Transparencies & Projections > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider > > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman > >>>> intends to insult. > >>>> > >>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often > >>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is > >>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to > >>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a > >>>> real difference between the two of you. But the belittling collapse > >>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar > >>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than > >>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman < > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that > >>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. > >>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude > >>>> > means. You might have better luck. > >>>> > > >>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as > Ron's > >>>> > is > >>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't > pinned > >>>> > down > >>>> > all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. I > >>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." > >>>> > > >>>> > --Bob > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>New-Poetry mailing list > >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Mar 16 01:42:24 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:42:24 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yeah. I used to read Ron's blog and have seen various explanations of his, but the Poe reference is perhaps the clearest thing about it... c On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You might find some insight here:?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Silliman. > Seems he borrowed the phrase from Poe, and used it to refer to the work > found > in mainstream academic magazines (which had published his own work too), > journals such as Poetry Northwest, TriQuarterly, Poetry, etc. etc. He's said > to > have used the term early on to piss someone off. Still does piss folks off, > it > seems. > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > Hal > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist >> or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude >> isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. >> >> c >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, ? wrote: >> > Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his dog. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> >>From: Chris Lott >> >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >> >>To: NewPoetry List >> >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> >> >>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >> >>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. >> >> >> >>c >> >> >> >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson >> >> wrote: >> >>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >> >>> as an insult. Could be wrong. >> >>> >> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> >>> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >> >>> Hal >> >>> Halvard Johnson >> >>> ================ >> >>> >> >>> halvard at gmail.com >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >>> >> >>> Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> >>> Other >> >>> Sonnets; >> >>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of >> >>> Harmony; >> >>> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >> >>> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >> >>> Transparencies & Projections >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman >> >>>> intends to insult. >> >>>> >> >>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >> >>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is >> >>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems >> >>>> to >> >>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a >> >>>> real difference ?between the two of you. But the belittling collapse >> >>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar >> >>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >> >>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >> >>>> >> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>>> > >> >>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >> >>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >> >>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >> >>>> > means. You might have better luck. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as >> >>>> > Ron's >> >>>> > is >> >>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't >> >>>> > pinned >> >>>> > down >> >>>> > all that well.? I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. >> >>>> > I >> >>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >> >>>> > >> >>>> > --Bob >> >>>> > >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >> >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>> >> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>New-Poetry mailing list >> >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 01:46:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 23:46:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: My guess is that it's a phrase Ron's since thought better of, but seems to feel stuck with--sort of the way minimalist composers hate the term "minimalist." "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Yeah. I used to read Ron's blog and have seen various explanations of > his, but the Poe reference is perhaps the clearest thing about it... > > c > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > You might find some insight here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Silliman. > > Seems he borrowed the phrase from Poe, and used it to refer to the work > > found > > in mainstream academic magazines (which had published his own work too), > > journals such as Poetry Northwest, TriQuarterly, Poetry, etc. etc. He's > said > > to > > have used the term early on to piss someone off. Still does piss folks > off, > > it > > seems. > > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other > > Sonnets; > > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> > >> I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist > >> or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude > >> isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. > >> > >> c > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, wrote: > >> > Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his > dog. > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >>From: Chris Lott > >> >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM > >> >>To: NewPoetry List > >> >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > >> >> > >> >>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way > >> >>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. > >> >> > >> >>c > >> >> > >> >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson > >> >> wrote: > >> >>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term > >> >>> as an insult. Could be wrong. > >> >>> > >> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > >> >>> --David Antin > >> >>> Hal > >> >>> Halvard Johnson > >> >>> ================ > >> >>> > >> >>> halvard at gmail.com > >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > >> >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >> >>> > >> >>> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye > and > >> >>> Other > >> >>> Sonnets; > >> >>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of > >> >>> Harmony; > >> >>> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > >> >>> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > >> >>> Transparencies & Projections > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider > >> >>> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. > Silliman > >> >>>> intends to insult. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often > >> >>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is > >> >>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems > >> >>>> to > >> >>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a > >> >>>> real difference between the two of you. But the belittling > collapse > >> >>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an > avatar > >> >>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than > >> >>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman > >> >>>> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that > >> >>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. > >> >>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude > >> >>>> > means. You might have better luck. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor > as > >> >>>> > Ron's > >> >>>> > is > >> >>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't > >> >>>> > pinned > >> >>>> > down > >> >>>> > all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. > >> >>>> > I > >> >>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > --Bob > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>_______________________________________________ > >> >>New-Poetry mailing list > >> >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 01:47:20 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 23:47:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: As to the term itself, I find it about as useful as most of Bob's lexicon, which is to say pretty damned useless. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > My guess is that it's a phrase Ron's since thought > better of, but seems to feel stuck with--sort of the > way minimalist composers hate the term "minimalist." > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> Yeah. I used to read Ron's blog and have seen various explanations of >> his, but the Poe reference is perhaps the clearest thing about it... >> >> c >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Halvard Johnson >> wrote: >> > You might find some insight here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Silliman. >> > Seems he borrowed the phrase from Poe, and used it to refer to the work >> > found >> > in mainstream academic magazines (which had published his own work too), >> > journals such as Poetry Northwest, TriQuarterly, Poetry, etc. etc. He's >> said >> > to >> > have used the term early on to piss someone off. Still does piss folks >> off, >> > it >> > seems. >> > >> > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> > --David Antin >> > Hal >> > Halvard Johnson >> > ================ >> > >> > halvard at gmail.com >> > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> > >> > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other >> > Sonnets; >> > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >> > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >> > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >> > Transparencies & Projections >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Chris Lott >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist >> >> or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude >> >> isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. >> >> >> >> c >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:42 PM, wrote: >> >> > Upping the ante a bit are we, Chris? He's probably also mean to his >> dog. >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> >>From: Chris Lott >> >> >>Sent: Mar 15, 2011 11:16 PM >> >> >>To: NewPoetry List >> >> >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> >> >> >> >>I'm pretty sure he does, though he'll claim he doesn't in the way >> >> >>slurs are justified as objective assessments by racists, etc. >> >> >> >> >> >>c >> >> >> >> >> >>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Halvard Johnson >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> I don't think that Silliman intends his term >> >> >>> as an insult. Could be wrong. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> >> >>> --David Antin >> >> >>> Hal >> >> >>> Halvard Johnson >> >> >>> ================ >> >> >>> >> >> >>> halvard at gmail.com >> >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye >> and >> >> >>> Other >> >> >>> Sonnets; >> >> >>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of >> >> >>> Harmony; >> >> >>> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >> >> >>> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >> >> >>> Transparencies & Projections >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Mike Snider >> >> >>> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. >> Silliman >> >> >>>> intends to insult. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often >> >> >>>> beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does >> is >> >> >>>> clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work >> seems >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's >> a >> >> >>>> real difference between the two of you. But the belittling >> collapse >> >> >>>> of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an >> avatar >> >> >>>> of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than >> >> >>>> Silliman's rants enlarge his. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> > On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > We never ask such questions here for fear that >> >> >>>> > BG will actually attempt to answer them. >> >> >>>> > Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >> >> >>>> > means. You might have better luck. >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor >> as >> >> >>>> > Ron's >> >> >>>> > is >> >> >>>> > of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't >> >> >>>> > pinned >> >> >>>> > down >> >> >>>> > all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined >> it. >> >> >>>> > I >> >> >>>> > certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > --Bob >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >> >> >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>New-Poetry mailing list >> >> >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 07:57:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:57:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80A58C.4060707@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 7:50 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Bob, I think both terms equally useless, except as insults. Silliman > intends to insult. > > Your work is much more interesting than Silliman's, and is often > beautiful, and deserves a wider audience. But what Silliman does is > clearly poetry -- I think it very bad poetry -- and your work seems to > me to be rather a kind of conceptual art. On many levels, there's a > real difference between the two of you. But the belittling collapse > of poets as radically different as Wilbur and Ashbery into an avatar > of conventionality does no more to enlarge your audience than > Silliman's rants enlarge his. > Thanks for the kind words about my . . . POETRY!!! Mike. I'd much rather people like that than my terminology. But I still think Wilshberia a useful term. Yes, it conflates a wide span of poetry. The value of it IS to spotlight--yes, insultingly--what for me is an arrogant narrowness of taste on the part of those who think it all the poetry of value in the world. As many do, although, academics are catching up to where contemporary poetry got to by 1990. So it is or soon will be of value only to indicate what kind of poetry rulled the BigWorld from 1960 or so until 2010 or so. Nothing wrong with Wilshberai, only with those who won't recognize the value of poetries not part of it. As for whether visual poetry is poetry or not, I would agree that it might be called a sort of conceptual art, but it is definitely also a verbal art, and definitely not prose, so either we must think of a new name for it and consider it a third form of literature besides poetry and prose or call it poetry. The latter makes much more sense to me than the former. Consider some of E. E. Cummings's poems, Aren't they all poems? Even his famaous "in Just-," with its "bettyandisbel" is a visual poem. I've composed poems that are all conventional if heightened language except for one or two small bits of visual poetry like "bettyandisbel" whose whole poetic effect is dependent on those bits. Not a poem? Then there's my mathematical poetry, some of which is not visual at all, consisting of words, numbers and one or two mathematical symbols, which I consider as verbal as & or even + are. I can't see how they aren't poetry. A fair number of prominent visual poets also compose conventional poetry, as Cummings did. And Kenneth Patchen. Aside from that, pluraesthetic poems has all sorts of things that poetry has, although mainly figurative language. A visual poem can even rhyme. The point is, in constructing a visual poem, the artists takes every bit as much care with the language as a poet does, and its a deeper kind of care than the care a prose writer takes. Finally, though, visual poetry is pretty much established as a form of poetry. It doesn't get into mainstream anthologies much, but it does get into them. So, it looks like it has to be accepted as a form of poetry. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 07:59:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:59:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80A616.9080401@nut-n-but.net> Oh, MIke, about visual poetry, I would add that as a critic, I treat it almost exactly the same way I treat conventional poetry, not the way I treat visual art, or the way music critics treat music. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:05:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:05:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80A794.3060002@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 8:45 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > no way! he does, it is not "merely descriptive" anymore than langpo is. > > but I would love to read Bob in "new conceptualisms"! Dunno what you're replying to, Catherine. What is not "merely descriptive?" "Wilshberia" certain is descriptive only. I don't see that "langpo" is not--it's just a shortened version of "language poetry." As such, it can be made to sound like an insult by those who don't like it, but it isn't by itself. "Vispo" is also merely descriptive. Many visual poet friends of mine use it like a friend nickname, which I believe it started as. I don't think you'd get much of interest from me about "new conceptualisms," whatever they are. all best, Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:13:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:13:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80A96A.5000103@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 8:45 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > no way! he does, it is not "merely descriptive" anymore than langpo is. Ah, you mean Ron's "Poetry of Quietude." I don't remember reading him on it when he wasn't being negative about it, but I don't suppose I often write about Wilshberia without sounding negative about it, "Wilshberia is all that William Logan is aware of" does sound negative about Wilshberia when it's really only negative about Logan. (I've sometimes complained about certain visual poets that visual poetry is all they are aware of, since I feel being rooted in . . . well, Wilshberia and its predecessors can be of great value to poets. My own poems would be much less than whatever they are without what I've stolen from Stevens, Keats, Williams, Basho, Dylan Thomas and many other conventional poets. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:32:08 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:32:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D80ADC8.8020807@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 10:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist > or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude > isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. > > c I think if someone makes that claim, you should take him at his word, unless you have very strong evidence that he's mistaken. Terms like his and mine are hard to use without offending people. As a contrast, I intend "Iowa plaintext poetry" to be (mostly) an insult like Donald Hall's "McPoem." I once asked for a neutral name for it, and didn't get one. It means, "boringly standard American poem," most of the time I and many others use it. But "sonnet" can be a term of contempt. The bottom line is that people should deal with terms they think are insults by showing what's invalid about what they are being (or seem to be) used to say, not just sputtering about how ill-mannered they are. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:35:54 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:35:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D80AEAA.5000306@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 11:14 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > I have no idea whether Ron would take it for a slur or deny taking it for a slur, but two things are clear: that you take it as a slur, and that Ron doesn't much like most of the poetry he places under that rubric. > > Myself, I'm happy with mainstream, and I'll confess to finding most of the mainstream pretty irrelevant. To me. To my way of working. I nonetheless simply mean the term as a rough way of grouping a bunch of things. One problem with that, Mark, is that some things you consider superior to mainstream poetry someone else (I, in many cases) may think smack in the middle of the mainstream. And vice versa. --Bob From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 07:37:59 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 04:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D80ADC8.8020807@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80ADC8.8020807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <564387.91730.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, you engineer, you! Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 1:32:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On 3/15/2011 10:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist > or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude > isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. > > c I think if someone makes that claim, you should take him at his word, unless you have very strong evidence that he's mistaken.? Terms like his and mine are hard to use without offending people.? As a contrast, I intend "Iowa plaintext poetry" to be (mostly) an insult like Donald Hall's "McPoem."? I once asked for a neutral name for it, and didn't get one.? It means, "boringly standard American poem," most of the time I and many others use it.? But "sonnet" can be a term of contempt. The bottom line is that people should deal with terms they think are insults by showing what's invalid about what they are being (or seem to be) used to say, not just sputtering about how ill-mannered they are. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 07:39:13 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 04:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D80AEAA.5000306@nut-n-but.net> References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80AEAA.5000306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <608169.93288.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, Bob, in the US, just about any poet not writing in English is otherstream.?Alas. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 1:35:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On 3/15/2011 11:14 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > I have no idea whether Ron would take it for a slur or deny taking it for a >slur, but two things are clear: that you take it as a slur, and that Ron doesn't >much like most of the poetry he places under that rubric. > > Myself, I'm happy with mainstream, and I'll confess to finding most of the >mainstream pretty irrelevant. To me. To my way of working. I nonetheless simply >mean the term as a rough way of grouping a bunch of things. One problem with that, Mark, is that some things you consider superior to mainstream poetry someone else (I, in many cases) may think smack in the middle of the mainstream.? And vice versa. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:47:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:47:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D80B171.2020900@nut-n-but.net> On 3/15/2011 11:38 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > And let's not forget the Sillimanites that trail in his wake. > Mainstream carries fewer such negative connotations, to my mind, but > it's not all that important. I feel similarly about most of the "Post > Avant" as you do the mainstream (or whatever categories it would fall > under in Bob's taxonomy), but it's a big tent. > > c I like "School of Quietude" and have claimed membership in it on the grounds that what I most try for in a poem (and look for in others' poems) is an expression of Final Serenity. But that works only if I take the term literally, not as Ron means by it, although I've never been able to figure that out. What's wrong with it is not that it may be insulting but that it is ill-defined. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 08:51:24 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:51:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 12:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > As to the term itself, I find it about as useful as > most of Bob's lexicon, which is to say pretty damned > useless. Sure, but as an intellectual nihilist, Hal, how could you find any term useful? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 09:37:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:37:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I sometimes use terms everyday. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 12:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > As to the term itself, I find it about as useful as > most of Bob's lexicon, which is to say pretty damned > useless. > > > Sure, but as an intellectual nihilist, Hal, how could you find any term > useful? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 09:57:14 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] THE BEST AMERICAN POEM ... without a DoUbT In-Reply-To: <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <834715.119.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> it's by John Berryman. funny, i can't seem to remember the title. first 2 lines goes something like ... On the night of the Belgium surrender the moon rose late ... ***************************************** should anyone disagree with my pick ... ... I've crunched the numbers. I have absolute Proof that Berryman's poem trumps all others. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List <> Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 8:51:24 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On 3/16/2011 12:47 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: As to the term itself, I find it about as useful as >most of Bob's lexicon, which is to say pretty damned >useless. > Sure, but as an intellectual nihilist, Hal, how could you find any term useful? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 11:33:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:33:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80D838.4070507@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 8:37 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I sometimes use terms everyday. > Right. Even an intellectual nihilist can't avoid doing that. But I meant you could not be expected to find any terms /like mine/, which are intended to facilitate understanding of complicated subjects of importance, not just to get through ordinary conversations or play trivial word games to mock seekers of truth. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 10:32:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:32:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D80D838.4070507@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <4D80D838.4070507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The problem, Bob, is that they don't facilitate, except when you're talking to yourself, perhaps. I suspect that you do a lot of that. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 8:37 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > I sometimes use terms everyday. > > > Right. Even an intellectual nihilist can't avoid doing that. But I meant > you could not be expected to find any terms *like mine*, which are > intended to facilitate understanding of complicated subjects of importance, > not just to get through ordinary conversations or play trivial word games to > mock seekers of truth. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 11:37:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:37:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <608169.93288.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80AEAA.5000306@nut-n-but.net> <608169.93288.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D80D92A.3050006@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 6:39 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Well, Bob, in the US, just about any poet not writing in English is > otherstream. Alas. > Amicalement, > Alex Frankly, Alex, I'm glad I'm monolinguistic. I'm barely staying sane trying to keep up with all that's going on poetically in my my own language! --all best, the Engineer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 11:38:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:38:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] THE BEST AMERICAN POEM ... without a DoUbT In-Reply-To: <834715.119.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <834715.119.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D80D98C.2060805@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: > it's by John Berryman. > funny, i can't seem to remember the title. > first 2 lines goes something like ... > /On the night of the Belgium surrender/ > /the moon rose late .../ > ***************************************** > should anyone disagree with my pick ... > ... I've crunched the numbers. > I have absolute Proof that Berryman's poem trumps all others. Probably a silly idea, but is it as silly as the common belief that we can't prove one poem is the best, so all poems are equally good? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 11:40:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:40:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Termfinder In-Reply-To: <4D80B171.2020900@nut-n-but.net> References: <340005.1300248860884.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B171.2020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D80D9E9.5090104@nut-n-but.net> Ha, just after arguing with Hal about terms, I got an e.mail the title of which was "termfinder." It had to do with insurance. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 10:40:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 07:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] THE BEST AMERICAN POEM ... without a DoUbT In-Reply-To: <4D80D98C.2060805@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <834715.119.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D80D98C.2060805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <227525.15976.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> in a private sense, i suppose all poems are equally good. that's why some sort of canon is essential. otherwise, anyone picking his nose would feel entitled to the thought that he or she had just written a masterpiece. It gets subtle. When one considers good song lyrics and poetry. Joni Mitchell gets as??close as anyone to writing actual poetry disguised? as lyrics. Of course, she's a genius. Excellent painter. Remarkable singer/songwriter/guitar player ... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 11:38:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] THE BEST AMERICAN POEM ... without a DoUbT On 3/16/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: it's by John Berryman. >funny, i can't seem to remember the title. > >first 2 lines goes something like ... > >On the night of the Belgium surrender >the moon rose late ... > >***************************************** >should anyone disagree with my pick ... >... I've crunched the numbers. > >I have absolute Proof that Berryman's poem trumps all others. Probably a silly idea, but is it as silly as the common belief that we can't prove one poem is the best, so all poems are equally good? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Mar 16 10:47:23 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:47:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Oh, just a poem... Message-ID: Tsunami What caused us to set a course for shore days ahead of schedule? An abundance of strange things floating in the water. Unopened packages of ground meat and noodles. Fresh vegetables. A straw hat with ?Relax, It?s Simple!? stitched in loopy script on the brim. Amber bottles of prescription pills and expensive cosmetics. A laminated menu from a seaside resort, its picture of shrimp and hot peppers en brochette captioned in four languages. The text message our diver received from his wife as we made our way back simply read disaster. Or perhaps it was catastrophe she keyed in, and after that the beautiful Japanese word for tidal wave. The place we returned to is not the island we left. The dock is gone. Villages have disappeared. Dead tourists still wear bathing suits, their bodies sunburnt the color of cooked lobsters. I?m trying to remember the Greek term for brotherly love. Is it philios? Please let it be philios. I need a mantra to calm me each morning as I exit my tent, a merciful word to repeat in my head. --Amy Gerstler. MiPoesias 19.3 (2005). http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue3Gudding/gerstler.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 11:28:30 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:28:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] THE BEST AMERICAN POEM ... without a DoUbT In-Reply-To: <4D80D98C.2060805@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <834715.119.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D80D98C.2060805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: One can't "prove" statements of value. One can only argue for them, if one has the time to spend doing so. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > it's by John Berryman. > funny, i can't seem to remember the title. > > first 2 lines goes something like ... > > *On the night of the Belgium surrender* > *the moon rose late ...* > > ***************************************** > should anyone disagree with my pick ... > ... I've crunched the numbers. > > I have absolute Proof that Berryman's poem trumps all others. > > > Probably a silly idea, but is it as silly as the common belief that we > can't prove one poem is the best, so all poems are equally good? > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 16 11:50:49 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 11:50:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bok brings Conceptual Poetry to "BIG NIGHT!" Message-ID: <8CDB2090E7B3725-794-23EB9@Webmail-d125.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.buffalonews.com/gusto/2011/03/christian-b%C3%B6k-brings-conceptual-poetry-to-big-night.html Mar 12, 2011 8:59:47 PM / Somehow, the words "experimental poet," "conceptual poet," and "sound artist" seem inadequate to describe the work of Christian B?k. Perhaps the terms "syntactic futurist," "phonological engineer," and "genomic auteur" might equally apply. What's indisputable is that B?k (pronounced "Book") is one of only a handful of contemporary artists and thinkers who have demonstrably expanded our ideas of what the "field" of poetry is, and given us a glimpse of how poetics might be encoded in our planetary future. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 14:49:57 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:49:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net><4D80D838.4070507 @nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D810655.6060808@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 9:32 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The problem, Bob, is that they don't facilitate, Better to try to facilitate and fail than to nihilistically mock any attempt to do that. > except when you're talking to yourself, perhaps. > I suspect that you do a lot of that. Not really, although a lot of my writing might be called a variation of that since no one reads it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 15:09:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:09:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net><4D80D838.4070507 @nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D810AF1.5060103@nut-n-but.net> Go to http://otherstreamunlimited.blogspot.com for 5 of my best poems. They should give one some idea of what's out there besides the work on anybody's list of best ten poems. Feel free to post a comment as to why these aren't poems. I feel I could do an extremely good defense of the proposition that the second and third, a set, are poems. Amusingly, the make use of a device almost fifty-years-old now, Aram Saroyan's use of unpronounced letters. But it wasn't a widely-used device then or now. The work at the bottom is barely a poem. Clue to getting something out of it: 5/7/5 "haiku" in the upper right consists of mixed-up letter-fragments from "a flower into." Historical note: I had nothing to do with the recently-founded, /Otherstream Unlimited/, the Facebook discussion group, or whatever it is, or the blog connected to it, except to give (unneeded) permission to Jake Berry to use my term in their names. True, Jake is an old arts friend of mine, but we'd been out-of-touch for some time. In other words, /some/one finds a term of mine useful. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 14:12:04 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:12:04 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D810AF1.5060103@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <4D810AF1.5060103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I love your term "intellectual nihilist" by the way. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Go to http://otherstreamunlimited.blogspot.com for 5 of my best poems. > They should give one some idea of what's out there besides the work on > anybody's list of best ten poems. Feel free to post a comment as to why > these aren't poems. I feel I could do an extremely good defense of the > proposition that the second and third, a set, are poems. Amusingly, the > make use of a device almost fifty-years-old now, Aram Saroyan's use of > unpronounced letters. But it wasn't a widely-used device then or now. > > The work at the bottom is barely a poem. Clue to getting something out of > it: 5/7/5 "haiku" in the upper right consists of mixed-up letter-fragments > from "a flower into." > > Historical note: I had nothing to do with the recently-founded, *Otherstream > Unlimited*, the Facebook discussion group, or whatever it is, or the blog > connected to it, except to give (unneeded) permission to Jake Berry to use > my term in their names. True, Jake is an old arts friend of mine, but we'd > been out-of-touch for some time. In other words, *some*one finds a term > of mine useful. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 16:47:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:47:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net><4D810AF1.5060103 @nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8121D0.5010908@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 1:12 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I love your term "intellectual nihilist" by the way. It's a standard term. A better is /phobosophist/, hater of the search for truth, which /is /mine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 17:15:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:15:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D8121D0.5010908@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net><4D810AF1.5060103 @nut-n-but.net> <4D8121D0.5010908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D812861.7020705@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 3:47 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 1:12 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I love your term "intellectual nihilist" by the way. > It's a standard term. A better is /phobosophist/, hater of the search > for truth, which /is /mine. Ooops, I /must /be tired. It's/phobosopher/, not/phobosophist./ Change your notes. --Bob -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:17:40 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:17:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D812861.7020705@nut-n-but.net> References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D80B24C.2070408@nut-n-but.net> <4D8121D0.5010908@nut-n-but.net> <4D812861.7020705@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Already forgotten it. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 3:47 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 3/16/2011 1:12 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > I love your term "intellectual nihilist" by the way. > > It's a standard term. A better is *phobosophist*, hater of the search for > truth, which *is *mine. > > Ooops, I *must *be tired. It's* phobosopher*, not* phobosophist.* Change > your notes. > > --Bob > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:39:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:39:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <4D7FF459.3040006@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D7FF459.3040006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I would looooove to! :-) On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/15/2011 3:58 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Marton will be in the States soon. He asked me if I know of anybody who is > interested in meeting him or spending some time with him. I am therefore > forwarding his reading dates should anybody be close-by. > > Jacksonville, at the Thomas G. Carpenter Library, University of North > Florida, on Monday, April 4, at 7 p.m. > > I will be spending part of 2 April with him in Jacksonville. Great with me > if anyone else would like to join us. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:48:11 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:48:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] trotting and tooting Message-ID: thank you, any comment is welcome, Anny Dear All, The issue is officially released. Thanks again for being part of this! eileen ------------------------------ From: mheditor at marshhawkpress.org To: ertabios at aol.com Sent: 3/14/2011 3:10:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time (Mex Subj: Announcing the Spring 2011 Marsh Hawk Review Having trouble viewing this email? Click here You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Marsh Hawk Press. You may unsubscribeif you no longer wish to receive our emails. [image: Marsh Hawk logo] Announcing the release of *Marsh Hawk Press Review*, Spring 2011 Issue Editor: Eileen R. Tabios Marsh Hawk Review, which appears each spring and fall, is a poetry 'zine that features a wide array of poetic styles. Poets published by Marsh Hawk Press edit the 'zine on a rotating basis, and each solicits contributions from poets affiliated and not affiliated with the press. Our spring issue features : Barry Schwabsky Rebecca Loudon Michael Leong Anne Gorrick Guillermo Parra Susan M. Schultz Bruce Covey Lynn Behrendt Mark Lamoreaux Sheila Murphy Jon Curley Tamiko Beyer Paul Pines Jean Vengua Mark Young Aileen Ibardaloza Daniel Morris Anny Ballardini You can find the Review hereor at the Marsh Hawk Press Web site, where you'll find more information about the press and our ten years of publishing. Forward email [image: http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001DIz5liuDPd2zlqZsGxqa3A==&se=001DFmVPO_ifmg=&t=001W76ov6OvVc2j8y0C7vNoDA==&llr=959whbcab] [image: http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=TEM_Card_216] This email was sent to ertabios at aol.com by mheditor at marshhawkpress.org | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy . Marsh Hawk Press | P.O. Box 206 | East Rockaway | NY | 11518 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 16 19:39:55 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:39:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: References: <4D7FF459.3040006@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D814A4B.2070201@nut-n-but.net> On 3/16/2011 4:39 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I would looooove to! > :-) > I was going to say "except ***," but I knew James wouldn't allow me to use the derogatory name for Italians I felt appropriate, so I didn't bother. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu Mar 17 10:28:49 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Three titles explore Elizabeth Bishop through poetry, prose and correspondence Message-ID: <8CDB2C6C46D6AB6-2EBC-2185@webmail-d135.sysops.aol.com> Three titles explore Elizabeth Bishop through poetry, prose and correspondence By SUSAN SALTER REYNOLDS -Prose: "Elizabeth Bishop," edited by Lloyd Schwartz; Farrar, Straus & Giroux (493 pages, $20, paper) -Poems: "Elizabeth Bishop," edited by Saskia Hamilton; Farrar, Straus & Giroux (339 pages, $16, paper) -Correspondence: "Elizabeth Bishop and the New Yorker: The Complete Correspondence," edited by Joelle Biele; Farrar, Straus & Giroux (426 pages, $35) There are many reasons to celebrate this year's centenary of Elizabeth Bishop's birth, not least of which is the enduring power of her writing and that she led by and large a productive and happy life. She was a survivor and a fierce defender of her own work. Yes, her childhood was rocky; yes, her death at age 68 in 1979 was untimely, but it was from a cerebral aneurysm - not by her own hand. Still, one also thinks of Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton, fellow poets, all well-educated women who were writing in the sphere of Harvard and the New Yorker in an old-boy era that was hard on female writers. The ceiling contained not salaries but posterity; it was low, and it was made of iron, not glass. Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/16/2729252/three-titles-explore-elizabeth.html##ixzz1Grbu2VoY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Mar 17 10:55:55 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:55:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <33412530.1300246945584.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDB2CA8D447DDF-2EBC-2ACA@webmail-d135.sysops.aol.com> A little aside: Ralph Waldo Emerson referred to Poe as "the jingle man." I doubt RWE was trying to flatter EAP or his poetry. If you find yourself in Baltimore, a fun bar (not historic per se) is Annabel Lee Tavern... http://www.annabelleetavern.com/ Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:30 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems You might find some insight here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Silliman. Seems he borrowed the phrase from Poe, and used it to refer to the work found in mainstream academic magazines (which had published his own work too), journals such as Poetry Northwest, TriQuarterly, Poetry, etc. etc. He's said to have used the term early on to piss someone off. Still does piss folks off, it seems. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: I didn't have a ready metaphor to hand. I doubt Silliman is a racist or mean to his dog. But I bet he would claim that School of Quietude isn't an insult, but an observation, and that's sadly familiar. c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 11:02:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:02:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <4D814A4B.2070201@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D7FF459.3040006@nut-n-but.net> <4D814A4B.2070201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Here's for Marton: http://chicagopoetryproject.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/two-chances-to-see-minimalist-concrete-poet-marton-koppany/ On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/16/2011 4:39 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> I would looooove to! >> :-) >> >> I was going to say "except ***," but I knew James wouldn't allow me to > use the derogatory name for Italians I felt appropriate, so I didn't bother. > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Mar 17 12:13:58 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:13:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] O magazine, Maria Shriver Interviews the Famously Private Poet Mary Oliver Message-ID: <8CDB2D574EDE5AD-13D8-4B09@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com> http://www.oprah.com/entertainment/Maria-Shriver-Interviews-Poet-Mary-Oliver Maria Shriver Interviews the Famously Private Poet Mary Oliver The Exclusive O Interview By Maria Shriver O, The Oprah Magazine | March 09, 2011 The more I learned about Mary, the more there was to admire: not just her words but the unconventional life she lived in Provincetown, Massachusetts, with her partner, the photographer Molly Malone Cook, who died of cancer in 2005. And I was overjoyed when?after politely declining my invitations for six straight years?Mary finally agreed to read at my annual Women's Conference in California last fall, joining speakers like Michelle Obama and Eve Ensler. Though she's a Pulitzer Prize winner and America's best-selling poet, Mary almost never gives interviews, and you could have heard a pin drop when she took the stage. (Her fans are everywhere; Laura Bush is one, Martha Beck another.) Mary was gracious enough to see me again in December, to talk about herself and her work for this special issue of O. As we spoke, I was thrilled to hear her describe herself as a "reporter," since my daughter has called my own poems "reporter poetry" (as opposed to real poetry). Suddenly, I had a bond with one of my heroes! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Mar 17 12:48:35 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:48:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz, Milosz, Milosz at 100 Message-ID: <8CDB2DA4AD23343-135C-520A@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> http://www.92y.org/shop/event_detail.asp?productid=T%2DTP5MS24 http://bookhaven.stanford.edu/2011/03/join-me-in-nyc-for-the-czeslaw-milosz-centennary/ http://littlestarjournal.com/blog/2011/03/milosz-celebrations-all-over/ http://www.bookinstitute.pl/en,ik,site,52,106,25232.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:17:20 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:17:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?Fwd=3A_Now_out_from_Otoliths_=97_Ma?= =?windows-1252?q?rcia_Arrieta=27s_=22triskelion=2C_tiger_moth=2C_t?= =?windows-1252?q?angram=2C_thyme=22?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mark Young Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:36 AM Subject: Now out from Otoliths ? Marcia Arrieta's "triskelion, tiger moth, tangram, thyme" To: POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu *triskelion, tiger moth, tangram, thyme* Marcia Arrieta 80 pages Otoliths, 2011 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-8-2 $13.45 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/triskelion-tiger-moth-tangram-thyme/9898811 What do the Golden Ratio, Tassajara?s kitchen, and Noguchi?s fascination with form have to do with natural cycles and the written word? In Arrieta?s *triskelion, tiger moth, tangram, thyme*, language flows between forms and fascinations sharing the elusive nature of sand, bear, and canyon and the infinite enigmas posed by modern physics, the green dragon, and the infinite reversals of Chinese puzzles. Arrieta?s poems are overlapping spheres, vanishing points, circles that reflect her fascination with modern cosmology, aesthetics, and the spirituality of language. ? *Andrea Moorhead* I have long followed Marcia Arrieta?s poems, impressed by her minimalist approach to language itself, her quiet southwest surrealism?reminiscent at times of the visionary artistry of Georgia O'Keeffe. Her poems are compelling, marked by deft and abrupt turnings, a total mastery of paratactic construction, and a dazzling sense of the landscape of the heart played against that insistent inner voice. Here, at last, they are gathered together, a gift well worth having, a quiet visionary voice which surprises and invites the reader to be attentive. ? *David Cope* Geometry defines symptoms of reality. Its elements hold in common a range of distances from other presences. In the perpetual imaginary search for probable freshness, what angle offers the most valid view? Marcia Arrieta?s book enacts philosophical inquiry into tangible experience, by way of a series of inductive expeditions. At the intersection of multiple wavelengths are poetic choices of mosaic segments that the poet sculpts into a metonymic actuality that far transcends harmonics of the selves. ? *Sheila E. Murphy* Marcia Arrieta?s long overdue first volume of poems charts the cycles of language within consciousness by plotting the recurrence of concepts and ideas and of certain words which, planet-like, wander among them. She has, through a process of extreme selectivity, crafted these poems-in-motion, poems on the outer reaches of philosophical thought. These poems are not for the mentally inert, but one willing to ?staple the head to the sea? will receive much delight and intellectual stimulation from them. ? *Celestine Frost* The poems in this book are complex, "intellectually emotional" tangles of observations. Rather than through commas, these short ? frequently only one noun long ? observations are related to each other through periods, line breaks, empty spaces. They die out instant to instant. But they're also connected by Marcia Arrieta's acute attention, the fingerpointingtothemoon-like unpredictability of her imagery. She is a wonderful observer, for whom the naming process and the names, the things and the silhouettes of their distances, "the literary symbol."* */period/ and "sea. clay. tree." belong to the same landscape, where "between the absolute." /period/ "the door is partially open." ? *M?rton Kopp?ny* The full catalog of Otoliths books can be found at The Otoliths Storefront ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Mar 17 14:07:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> school of Quietude ... something hermetic, i gather ... maybe it has something to do with poet Monks & their bad attitudes? or Monks who are dudes with attitudes but do their thing with a sort of groovy panache? when all else fails, i guess it's go ask Silliman. Silliman, the guy who claimed that Lowell was a complete failure. Seidel might disagree. Ditto A. Sexton and company. Did Sexton and Lowell have an affair? That, and the real life capers of the confessionals, is big time Boring ... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 5:45:24 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On 3/15/2011 3:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: We never ask such questions here for fear that >BG will actually attempt to answer them. > > >Go ask Ron Silliman what School of Quietude >means. You might have better luck. > Hal, do you really think my definition of Wilshberia is as poor as Ron's is of the School of Quietude--which even he has admitted he hasn't pinned down all that well. I'm fairly sure he's never explicitly defined it. I certainly have exactly defined "Wilshberia." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Mar 17 14:38:38 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:38:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 17 15:48:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:48:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> On 3/17/2011 1:07 PM, stephen russell wrote: > school of Quietude ... something hermetic, i gather ... > > maybe it has something to do with poet Monks & their bad attitudes? > or Monks who are dudes with attitudes but do their thing with a sort > of groovy panache? > > when all else fails, i guess it's go ask Silliman. I'm afraid he'd be the last one to ask. He's on record as not being able to define it. In the meantime, here's another definition of "Wilshberia." I think it probably the most accurate one. All the kinds of poetry between the formal verse of Wilbur and what I consider the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery taught be more than a few English professors. So you'd have to survey English departments to pin it down, which I now believe is why I haven't been able to define it perfectly. That and the fact that I use it without much thought--in threads where no one else is using much thought. A really good brief but not perfect definition would be simply the kinds of poetry William Logan discusses in /the New Criterion/. Not language poetry, because it is less conventional than Ashbery's poetry, and his is the least conventional poetry of Wilshberia. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:51:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:51:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: You're a real good definer, Bobby. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/17/2011 1:07 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > school of Quietude ... something hermetic, i gather ... > > maybe it has something to do with poet Monks & their bad attitudes? > or Monks who are dudes with attitudes but do their thing with a sort of > groovy panache? > > when all else fails, i guess it's go ask Silliman. > > I'm afraid he'd be the last one to ask. He's on record as not being able > to define it. > > In the meantime, here's another definition of "Wilshberia." I think it > probably the most accurate one. All the kinds of poetry between the formal > verse of Wilbur and what I consider the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery taught be > more than a few English professors. So you'd have to survey English > departments to pin it down, which I now believe is why I haven't been able > to define it perfectly. That and the fact that I use it without much > thought--in threads where no one else is using much thought. A really good > brief but not perfect definition would be simply the kinds of poetry William > Logan discusses in *the New Criterion*. > > Not language poetry, because it is less conventional than Ashbery's poetry, > and his is the least conventional poetry of Wilshberia. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 14:51:58 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:51:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Odds Against Today" by Vernon Frazer. In-Reply-To: <4461FAC747424C05B691238623F8E6CC@AdminPC> References: <4461FAC747424C05B691238623F8E6CC@AdminPC> Message-ID: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is ?Odds Against Today? by Vernon Frazer. Description: In ?Odds Against Today?, Vernon Frazer's linguistic techniques force language beyond semantic limitations to produce poems that become events rather than meanings, although his lexical admixtures do not necessarily preclude perceiving or experiencing meaning. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/odds-against-today/15108884 Full Argotist Ebooks catalogue: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Ebooks%20index.htm -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Mar 17 14:53:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <382102.76589.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> cool. I'm shocked. & Silliman reduced to silence. At long last ... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 3:48:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems On 3/17/2011 1:07 PM, stephen russell wrote: school of Quietude ... something hermetic, i gather ... > >maybe it has something to do with poet Monks & their bad attitudes? >or Monks who are dudes with attitudes but do their thing with a sort >of groovy panache? > >when all else fails, i guess it's go ask Silliman. > I'm afraid he'd be the last one to ask. He's on record as not being able to define it. In the meantime, here's another definition of "Wilshberia." I think it probably the most accurate one. All the kinds of poetry between the formal verse of Wilbur and what I consider the jump-cut poetry of Ashbery taught be more than a few English professors. So you'd have to survey English departments to pin it down, which I now believe is why I haven't been able to define it perfectly. That and the fact that I use it without much thought--in threads where no one else is using much thought. A really good brief but not perfect definition would be simply the kinds of poetry William Logan discusses in the New Criterion. Not language poetry, because it is less conventional than Ashbery's poetry, and his is the least conventional poetry of Wilshberia. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 17 16:42:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:42:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D827233.1050002@nut-n-but.net> On 3/17/2011 1:51 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You're a real good definer, Bobby. Thanks, Hal, but I'm really not very good at it, which is why I do it so often. I'm just out there trying to combat definitionlessness without much help because I think definitionlessness a synonym for mindlessness, which is a synonym for taking up space a mosquito would make better use of. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 17 16:45:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:45:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <382102.76589.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net><540496401C0D4E239949A1B42385 32AD@OwnerPC><4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net><4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net><447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4D826591.40 70902@nut-n-but.net> <382102.76589.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D8272FC.40201@nut-n-but.net> On 3/17/2011 1:53 PM, stephen russell wrote: > cool. I'm shocked. & Silliman reduced to silence. > At long last ... Only about the definition of The School of Quietude. I want to say, "Alas," but I can't sincerely say that because I wouldn't want him silent. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 16:01:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:01:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D827233.1050002@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com> <4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net> <447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net> <4D827233.1050002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Irony is lost on you, Bob. Mindlessness is inventing new languages before we've mastered the old ones. Esperanto comes to mind. Whatever happened to that? Flinging neologisms around is not defining. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/17/2011 1:51 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > You're a real good definer, Bobby. > > > Thanks, Hal, but I'm really not very good at it, which is why I do it so > often. I'm just out there trying to combat definitionlessness without much > help because I think definitionlessness a synonym for mindlessness, which is > a synonym for taking up space a mosquito would make better use of. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 17 17:50:54 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:50:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <8CDAE3D8DC446EB-1D64-7BD96@Webmail-m106.sysops.aol.com><4D7E67F1.5010801@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FA088.5000006@nut-n-but.net><4D7FBA99.7000800@nut-n-but.net> <4D7FDDF4.4020900@nut-n-but.net><447819.53415.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4D826591.4070902@nut-n-but.net><4D827233.1050002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D82823E.7090508@nut-n-but.net> On 3/17/2011 3:01 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Irony is lost on you, Bob. No, it isn't, Hal. How could even I think you could compliment me on my ability to define? I merely ignored your irony. Or, perhaps, ironically took it not to be irony. > Mindlessness is inventing new languages > before we've mastered the old ones. Coining terms is not inventing a new language. > Esperanto comes to mind. > Whatever happened to that? > > Flinging neologisms around is not defining. > I agree. I doubt too many would agree with you that that's all I do. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Mar 17 16:49:01 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:49:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <25471706.1300394941173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 17 18:59:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:59:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hal vs Bob In-Reply-To: <25471706.1300394941173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25471706.1300394941173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4D829247.4000002@nut-n-but.net> Better would be to change the title, which I did once, although not to the above, but forgot to do again. Then you could simply automatically delete all posts in the thread. The problem with shutting it down is that there may be people, even at New-Poetry, to whom a clash between a rationalist like me and whatever Hal is, is entertaining, even illuminating in ways you aren't aware of. On the other hand, I do have better things to do, and if you're calling for a shutdown, Finnegan probably won't be far behind, so this will be my last post of the subject. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 17:58:54 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:58:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hal vs Bob In-Reply-To: <4D829247.4000002@nut-n-but.net> References: <25471706.1300394941173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D829247.4000002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hal is an "intellectual nihilist," remember? And he likes the label. - Jim On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Better would be to change the title, which I did once, although not to the > above, but forgot to do again. Then you could simply automatically delete > all posts in the thread. The problem with shutting it down is that there > may be people, even at New-Poetry, to whom a clash between a rationalist > like me and whatever Hal is, is entertaining, even illuminating in ways you > aren't aware of. > > On the other hand, I do have better things to do, and if you're calling for > a shutdown, Finnegan probably won't be far behind, so this will be my last > post of the subject. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:03:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:03:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hal vs Bob In-Reply-To: References: <25471706.1300394941173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4D829247.4000002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I like the term. I'm not big on labels. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:58 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Hal is an "intellectual nihilist," remember? And he likes the label. > > - Jim > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Better would be to change the title, which I did once, although not to the >> above, but forgot to do again. Then you could simply automatically delete >> all posts in the thread. The problem with shutting it down is that there >> may be people, even at New-Poetry, to whom a clash between a rationalist >> like me and whatever Hal is, is entertaining, even illuminating in ways you >> aren't aware of. >> >> On the other hand, I do have better things to do, and if you're calling >> for a shutdown, Finnegan probably won't be far behind, so this will be my >> last post of the subject. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 18 14:45:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Message-ID: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of midget/haiku narrative. Margaret Atwood did a decent one. Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for?anything other than words baffles me/ maybe she types 2,000 words per minute )?... & moving right along ... The best, by far, was Hemingway: For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri Mar 18 14:58:28 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's Journey into Night: I. . . was happy for a time Available now at Amazon.com Injuring Eternity To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: new-poetry Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of midget/haiku narrative. Margaret Atwood did a decent one. Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything other than words baffles me/ maybe she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The best, by far, was Hemingway: For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:01:10 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:01:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Super Full Moon Message-ID: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/16mar_supermoon/ only once every 18 years -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Mar 18 15:19:31 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:19:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite was Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. Jerry Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's > Journey into Night: > > I. . . was happy *for a time* > > > > > Available now at Amazon.com > Injuring Eternity > > To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry > Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. > It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of > midget/haiku narrative. > > Margaret Atwood did a decent one. > > Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything > other than words baffles me/ maybe > she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The > best, by far, was Hemingway: > > /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 From halvard at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:26:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:26:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: "There was a pig. It died." Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a bunch > of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway story. > It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it > yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite was > Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've > watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. > > Jerry > > Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > >> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's Journey >> into Night: >> I. . . was happy *for a time* >> >> >> Available now at Amazon.com >> Injuring Eternity < >> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >> > >> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com > > >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen russell >> To: new-poetry >> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >> midget/haiku narrative. >> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >> other than words baffles me/ maybe >> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The best, >> by far, was Hemingway: >> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:05:39 2011 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:05:39 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The New RI PILOT PROGRAM & ROTARY IDENTITY CHECKLIST FOR US ALL-Query & Quest Message-ID: emperical response by GBEMI TIJANI MST Dear Poets& Great Rotarians-I know your giving heart especially for Rotary is commendable and has been a wayshower to the like of us who's yet to deny tremendously (except our time) as you ve done.nb We know BILL GATES have given big to buffer the global Polio Eradication initiative which is yielding good dividents of rooting the deadly disease out of the world since 1985 through 1988 WORLD HEALTH ORGAN joined this epidemiological armory.Kudos i hope things will turn around for us too to do likewise ina all capacities we can including wrrrrriting poetry about humane actions please dont ignore this empathy reflection stabilised berely 12 hours back NB.I READ THE GOOD WORKS -ALMOST ALWAYS HUMANE AND BE YOND REPROACH - WHICH ROTARY IS DOING INCLUDING RELIEF OF VICTIMS OF WORLD DISASTERS HAITAI AND JAPAN OF RECENT ARE BADLY HIT BY NATURE THIS IS WHAT WELL-MEANING, INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ROTARY-not otherwise WE HOPE BARRIERS TO EFFECTIVE CLUB FUNCTIONS CAN BE REALISED LOCALLY HERE TOO PRESENTLY THAT'S WHY THE NEW RI PILOT PROGRAMME IN MEMBER DIVERSITY AND FLEXIBILITY IN CLUB OPERATIONS WILL HELP TO MINIMISE hitherto officers laxity or individual leadership abuse militating in club effectiveness and member attrition I hope all concerned on this experiment are diligent and optimistic in making it a success .I m particularly keen about about each of the flexible options - satellite,corporate and Associate clubs should tacitly invite more fun,and fervency beyond trivials.They will resplendentlyenrich intercorporate and interpersnal relationship as well as easy synergy for expertise needed for most of Rotary 's skill demanding involved projects -an sometimes could be emergently required.Remember the shelterbox response .He actually capitalised on the 32000 clubs armory of wisdom and it turned out to be a big succes. .Each type should be fruitful for Rotary strategic plans in virtually all zones & districts.However the good financial standing of each participating club isnt too much The positive saspect of this qualification is that incoming recruits from the corporate world will realise that truly RI draws her resourcery from out -of- Evanston & Donor ffriends and humanitarian practitiners like Bill Gate and this command respect.Whereas if they meet a poor club it might send wrong ,albeit fake signals about the typical club and wealth of will to improve the community. I persistently inurred in this RI program ialmost assume it should be a mirage until i saw it repeatedly i html and downloaded it just to hold and format it bigger. For those in my initial plight in January i quote RI again: Each one is designed to improve recruitment and retention, allow for flexibility in club operations and structures, and provide Rotary clubs with an opportunity to explore new and innovative ways to promote member diversity -- all goals of the RI Strategic Plan. Other potential benefits include improved leadership, engagement, and participation among members and increased support of The Rotary Foundation. The pilots will allow RI to collect data and analyze results from the participating clubs to evaluate the effectiveness of each change. questions -is this pilot program open to all clubs in all districts? CAN CLUB INITIATE TO PARTICIPATE INDEPENDENT OF THE DISTRICT ? PLEASE REPLY THESE QUESTIONS BEFORE THE DEADLINE-President I/C,,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE, D9125 GBEMISOYE TIJANI,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE,D9125 *** THIS CHECKLIST IS TIMELY FOR MY CLUB & ALLIED OFFICIAL INTERVENTION: EXPECTED : ROTARY GREETINGS For many reasons I congratulate you all that this club still exists .What then are we doing to keep it functionally alive Being NOMINALLY alive and functionally alive carry different fate. The latter carries more dynamism and grace by all standards of measurement ?cultural or biological than otherwise.The same for a giving heart the small donor as well as the major donor ought to continue this altruistic global call.i regard it as philanthropic sowing which most of us also hope to rate as potently rewarding too than fleshy giving elsewhere. With modesty and candor we have our own beauty notwithstanding all elements of club effectiveness-even as a provisional entity-we dare a community service(zebra crossing)-we actually initiate a long term project( a multipurpose club house ).What was the secret behind this spontaneous assimilation to Rotary core values and object of focus? Were we more merely fervent without being friendly or are we more disciplined or again more compliant to rules of procedure? Or again is it because we were under supervision by a special Rep of the DG that mandated the survey for a new club? Whereas the self taught man seldom knows anything accurately and he could ve been better if he had learned under teachers. ARNOLD THE AMUSING WRITER endorsed this.Truly our gestationwas so prolonged than that of our baby club chartered after ours doe this account for our perennial wobbling ?Even then how long are going to continue wobbling before we learn how to cope with the rules of the procedure and fine tune PRACTICE and move to BEST PRACTICE globally in vogue ? Also noting that Rotary is a n international club of volunteers-who are business leaders and professionals-viable farmers & tailors inclusive-- willing to improve the communities via jointly identified and prioritized educational or humanitarian activities ?by now the 4th year of our charter we ought to have learnt the rubrics to have done better judging by the caliber of membership at inception, at charter, at boom when we are 48 and now at filtrate point when we are 24.RI our affiliated parent organization didn?t ignore this ?our club earned RECOGNITION FOR MEMBERSHIP INCREASE for 2009/10 Rotary Year. So the past hasn?t been all that bad to build on This checklist will help to expedite that at the individual as well as officers levels: ? We are almost labeled a travel club.We easily settle travel levies even before paying basicannual dues to the club & the Disitrict locally administering us. ? Whereas our international fellowship tours couldn?t have been automatically tacitly facilitated were we not Rotarians or a Rotary Club-yet fellow Rotarians have forgotten that it is Rotarian identity that enabled that privileged tour and the local club that organized it must run with minimal cash before matching grants could be applied .There must also be a project pan and budget before a Rotary Partner is identified for funding via the proper channels . ? Travelling is good its part of Rotary as well as global experience we need to foster peace /goodwill. ? If we are travelled ?Rotarians we should also show this in our day to day manners of friendship/responsibility ?decorum inclusive. We should be fair to others and observe rules of conduct and discharge duties assigned to the posts we hold or bear-not otherwise! ? Should officers even contest elections or be nominated for the same without settlement of basic dues at all? ? Its been happening here recurrently like a decimal point yet such officers don?t even yield by justifying the grace they ve had .There are executives with portfolios but NOT PERFORMING. Not around is the latest laxity. ? Yet we are warming up for CLUB COMMITTEE?S LIST and still parading officers still owing in March the 9th mth of a Rotary Year! Its ridiculous and not incredibly wonderful why or how such a club will pay RI + District capitations and still do projects worth serving the communities let alone themselves. ? OUR ATTENDANCE ISN?T BELOW 60% OF ENROLLEES SINCE PAST 2 YEARS though punctuality is an aspect to be improved on? ? BUT WHERE ARE THE COMMITTEE CHAIRS /MEMBERS TO PLAN SERVICE & PROJECTS? ? ARE THEY BONA FIDE MEMBERS/OFFICERS? ? Have they paid up their dues? Even by deposits? ? How do they emerge as officers? Are they traditionally nominated/elected? ? Or just fixed up to urgently routinely comply to District/RI data requirement? ? The consequence of this is mainly social activities/welfare issues ?no consistent project focus ? Not much love is also manifesting ?no practical candid unity that can bring a functional service agenda. There ?s unproductive self serving interest. There?s needless politics of survival askance if I don?t hold a post I won?t be relevant to the scheme of things. Whereas every post demands a responsibility. ? I wish club officers /committee chairs can embrace this common tenet. ? ? QUERIES? ? Are we genuine volunteers for Rotary Club? How interpersonally friendly? ? How frank about the effectiveness and allied parameters of the club as at now? ? Do you believe or know that change is paramount now? ? All should brace up TO SERVE SELFLESSLY ? And disregard the obsessive office-mongers ? PLEASE BE BOLD TO ACCEPT NOMINATIONS insofar you will be bold to discharge the duties ? Discharging responsibility could be fun if you know what Rotary means ? Don?t accept responsibility you could not figure out time/means/talent for ? Its honourable and facile if you accept to give talent/service & means ? Don?t be part of those that turn Rotary to a social club ?acquaintance without a target service or symbiotic alliance. ? Rotary is a fair friendly service ?oriented organization ? Rotary is good only if we actualize the goodness in the communities we serve. ? Rotary is dynamic ?old glory isn?t reportable annually ? Rotary is orderly. One officer presiding at a time. ? Rotary has tradition ?MOP- IS ALWAYS THERE for all to read/act ? Rotary ?s strengths is unity 33000 clubs worldwide serving humanity ? Life is simple Its people who make it complex-RI ?PE Kalyan Barnejee ? Rotary?s top posts ?ceteris Paribus aren?t precociously hustled for-one thing leads to another-REFLECTIONS from K.Barnejee-The Rotarian March 2011 & my story too @ Oluyole Estate club.I didn?t prematurely hustle for anything Ecclesiastically speaking all is vanity. We ?re only trying to be ?We should actually be learning how to be nice or permanently altruistic like BILL GATES ? Halleluyah for interior change in us all for a better year ?time is running out! ? Where are our reprinted letterheads? Imagine how pedestrian a club can be without rolling out memos inviting sagacious town/gown to talk 2ce monthly ?besides other mandatory correspondence. ? The sum total of Rotary Actions globally is compassion & human love ? If there?s a disaster or crisis RI will not be indifferent-locally or elsewhere on the globe ? Ditto if there?s crisis within a city, club should a Rotarian be unruffled? ? A boy?s head can?t be bent if there?s an elder in that (African)community ? Will you be part of the peace & solution if there?s a crisis within or you will delight in fueling the flame or prolong it ?and what do you gain from this? ? In Rotary there?s no dead end to a crisis. Arbitration or mediation options galore. Though Rotary doesn?t tolerate indiscipline or high-handedness per se.Rotary activity is mutually pronged ?not a solo affair! ? ROTARY POSITION ISN?T DO OR DIE.ROTARY POST = SELFLESS SERVICE. ? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FOR A 9-month SEASON OF ANOMY ? Annul the anomy now for peace & progress of the club & the community.. ? Gestated on the ORDIA SUSPENSION & SEQUELAE ? CATALYSED BY THE ABUJA PETS MARCH2011 ? Also to inspire a Query ?have we learnt any lessons? ? Are we heaven ?handed ?if not mindful -ourselves? ? ROTARY GREETINGS TO ALL THAT CARE TO CREATE LOVE via poetry,politics of good governance for all.The reward of all mental atitude and actions even onearth for mortals may not be quantified as the do-gooder would've imagined. ? GBEMI0318/2011 From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:49:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:49:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I've already heard this story, Hal! Don't you have another one...? Don't you have another story please (6 words!) On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "There was a pig. It died." > > Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering > him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a >> bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway >> story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it >> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite was >> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >> >> Jerry >> >> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >> >>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's Journey >>> into Night: >>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>> >>> >>> Available now at Amazon.com >>> Injuring Eternity < >>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>> > >>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >> MillB at aol.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: stephen russell >>> To: new-poetry >>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>> >>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>> midget/haiku narrative. >>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The best, >>> by far, was Hemingway: >>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 10:39:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:39:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Mom never made love to Dad. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I've already heard this story, Hal! Don't you have another one...? > > Don't you have > another story please > > (6 words!) > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> "There was a pig. It died." >> >> Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering >> him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: >> >>> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a >>> bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway >>> story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it >>> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite was >>> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >>> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >>> >>>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's >>>> Journey into Night: >>>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>>> >>>> >>>> Available now at Amazon.com >>>> Injuring Eternity < >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>>> > >>>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >>> MillB at aol.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: stephen russell >>>> To: new-poetry >>>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>> >>>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>>> midget/haiku narrative. >>>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The >>>> best, by far, was Hemingway: >>>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Prof. Jerry McGuire >>> Dept. of English >>> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >>> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >>> 337-482-5478 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 19 12:51:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 11:51:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com><4D83B043.7080206 @louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4D84DEF5.2080205@nut-n-but.net> On 3/19/2011 9:39 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Mom never made love to Dad. Good one, Hal. I never said intellectual nihilism didn't have its uses. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:00:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:00:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D84DEF5.2080205@nut-n-but.net> References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> <4D84DEF5.2080205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Don't leave home without it. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/19/2011 9:39 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Mom never made love to Dad. > > > Good one, Hal. I never said intellectual nihilism didn't have its uses. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 19 12:10:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:10:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive fragmentary poetry. Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in this discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the contender to knockout 'mainstream'. I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter its blind broadbrush). Here's how I have things rated: Mainstream 3-5 odds Official Verse Culture 20-1 School of Quietude 12-1 Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of American mainstream poetry. Best, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:16:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:16:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Mainstream's fine with me. I love river metaphors, but prefer the gentle eddies near the shore. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: > Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive > fragmentary poetry. > Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in this > discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the > contender to knockout 'mainstream'. > > I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter > its blind broadbrush). > > Here's how I have things rated: > > Mainstream 3-5 odds > Official Verse Culture 20-1 > School of Quietude 12-1 > Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. > > I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of > American mainstream poetry. > > Best, > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 19 12:21:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:21:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB468D08502D0-2124-22639@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> And the 'sloughs', the 'cataracts', the 'tributaries', and the entirely cut off 'bayous' too. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:16 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Mainstream's fine with me. I love river metaphors, but prefer the gentle eddies near the shore. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive fragmentary poetry. Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in this discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the contender to knockout 'mainstream'. I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter its blind broadbrush). Here's how I have things rated: Mainstream 3-5 odds Official Verse Culture 20-1 School of Quietude 12-1 Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of American mainstream poetry. Best, Mark _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:28:35 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:28:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB468D08502D0-2124-22639@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> <8CDB468D08502D0-2124-22639@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Those cataracts--much too swift for me. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > And the 'sloughs', the 'cataracts', the 'tributaries', and the entirely cut > off 'bayous' too. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:16 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Mainstream's fine with me. I love river metaphors, > but prefer the gentle eddies near the shore. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: > >> Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive >> fragmentary poetry. >> Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in this >> discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the >> contender to knockout 'mainstream'. >> >> I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter >> its blind broadbrush). >> >> Here's how I have things rated: >> >> Mainstream 3-5 odds >> Official Verse Culture 20-1 >> School of Quietude 12-1 >> Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 >> >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: junction at earthlink.net >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. >> >> I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of >> American mainstream poetry. >> >> Best, >> >> Mark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 19 12:33:35 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:33:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com><8CDB468D08502D0-2124-22639@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB46A86C7C2CD-2124-227C7@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2011/01/kayak-tongue.html -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:28 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Those cataracts--much too swift for me. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: And the 'sloughs', the 'cataracts', the 'tributaries', and the entirely cut off 'bayous' too. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:16 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Mainstream's fine with me. I love river metaphors, but prefer the gentle eddies near the shore. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive fragmentary poetry. Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in this discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the contender to knockout 'mainstream'. I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter its blind broadbrush). Here's how I have things rated: Mainstream 3-5 odds Official Verse Culture 20-1 School of Quietude 12-1 Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of American mainstream poetry. Best, Mark _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:45:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:45:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB46A86C7C2CD-2124-227C7@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> <8CDB468D08502D0-2124-22639@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> <8CDB46A86C7C2CD-2124-227C7@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: My kayak tongue's been swapped for a dog paddle. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:33 AM, wrote: > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2011/01/kayak-tongue.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:28 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Those cataracts--much too swift for me. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:21 AM, wrote: > >> And the 'sloughs', the 'cataracts', the 'tributaries', and the entirely >> cut off 'bayous' too. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:16 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> Mainstream's fine with me. I love river metaphors, >> but prefer the gentle eddies near the shore. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: >> >>> Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive >>> fragmentary poetry. >>> Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in >>> this discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was the >>> contender to knockout 'mainstream'. >>> >>> I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no matter >>> its blind broadbrush). >>> >>> Here's how I have things rated: >>> >>> Mainstream 3-5 odds >>> Official Verse Culture 20-1 >>> School of Quietude 12-1 >>> Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: junction at earthlink.net >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 2:38 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >>> >>> You know, a lot of us don't have much use for Sexton, Lowell, etc. >>> >>> I think Ron was referring to the flat prosy style of a great deal of >>> American mainstream poetry. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 19 14:07:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:07:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com><4D84DEF5.2080205@nu t-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D84F0F6.3070507@nut-n-but.net> On 3/19/2011 11:00 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Don't leave home without it. Nothing could exist, so God did. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 19 13:05:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:05:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnets sought Message-ID: <8CDB46EF61369BD-2124-22DCB@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:27:37 -0400 From: Becca Books Subject: Call for Submissions:Sonnets I'm posting this on behalf of the sponsor. All the information you need can be found at the website. Good luck. Becca Menon Call for sonnet submissions to: *The Phoenix Rising from the Ashes: Anthology of sonnets of the early third millennium = Le Ph?nix renaissant de ses cendres : Anthologie de sonnets au d?but du troisi?me mill?naire.* Richard Vallance, Editor-in-chief; Jim Dunlap, Co-editor, and a panel of 6 associate editors. Aux ?ditions Describe Adonis Press, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. ? 2012 ISBN 978-0-9868289-0-4 (projected approx. 225-250 pp.) Perfect bound; colour cover; illustrations in black & white & some in colour. For guidelines, please visit our site of the same name: http://vallance22.hpage.com/ You may submit up to 10 sonnets in English or any language, provided that there is a parallel prose translation, or even a version of the same sonnet in English. The deadline for submissions is July 1 2011. ______________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 17:14:37 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:14:37 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnets sought In-Reply-To: <8CDB46EF61369BD-2124-22DCB@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB46EF61369BD-2124-22DCB@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Check the guidelines. Methinks the net is set too high. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 11:05 AM, wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:27:37 -0400 > From: Becca Books > Subject: Call for Submissions:Sonnets > I'm posting this on behalf of the sponsor. All the information you need > can > be found at the website. Good luck. > Becca Menon > > Call for sonnet submissions to: > > *The Phoenix Rising from the Ashes: Anthology of sonnets of the early > third millennium > = Le Ph?nix renaissant de ses cendres : Anthologie de sonnets au d?but > du troisi?me mill?naire.* > Richard Vallance, Editor-in-chief; Jim Dunlap, Co-editor, and a panel > of 6 associate editors. > > Aux ?ditions Describe Adonis Press, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. ? 2012 > ISBN 978-0-9868289-0-4 > (projected approx. 225-250 pp.) Perfect bound; colour cover; > illustrations in black & white & some in colour. > > For guidelines, please visit our site of the same name: > > http://vallance22.hpage.com/ > You may submit up to 10 sonnets in English or any language, provided that > there > is a parallel prose translation, or even a version of the same sonnet > in English. > The deadline for submissions is July 1 2011. > ______________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 19 18:59:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:59:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D853560.3080408@nut-n-but.net> On 3/19/2011 11:10 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Of course there is the 'mainstream avant garde' style of disgressive > fragmentary poetry. > Was 'Official Verse Culture' (Chas. Bernstein's term) brought up in > this discussion? Before 'School of Quietude' gained currency, that was > the contender to knockout 'mainstream'. > > I'm still betting on 'mainstream' as the surviving descriptor (no > matter its blind broadbrush). > > Here's how I have things rated: > Mainstream 3-5 odds > Official Verse Culture 20-1 > School of Quietude 12-1 > Wilshberia (and the field) 45-1 > Finnegan I agree that the mainstream term for conventional poetry will always be "mainstream." To me the interesting question is what the intelligent term for such poetry will be. Certainly not "Wilshberia, because that's chronologically limited. And it has never meant "mainstream," but more like "official verse." Mainstream American poetry is basically the poetry most people in America like, and the poetry of Wilshberia is less than half of it. Hallmark poetry is not written in WIlshberia but is certainly mainstream, for instance. Ditto haiku. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 19 19:01:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:01:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net> The average American considers the poetry of Wilshberia "high-brow." --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 19:04:57 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 16:04:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Issue Three of SOL: English Writing in Mexico Message-ID: We're so proud to send you Issue Three of *SOL: English Writing in Mexico*. This issue marks the first year of this quarterly on-line literary magazine. To read it, click on the link below. Here's what we've got in store for you--a chapter from the just-out Teresa Nicholas's *Buryin' Daddy: Putting My Lebanese, Catholic, Southern Baptist Childhood to Rest; *Aaron Clark's short story examining when a chicken is indeed a chicken; Wayne Greenhaw with a surrealisic encounter---as well as poets James Cervantes, Molly Frisk, and Margaret Randall. And more, and more, and more. While you're at it, take a look at past issues featuring Tony Cohan, C.M. Mayo, Bill Pearlman, Joseph Dispenza, and many other frine writers. We hope you'll enjoy our magazine, and sign up for a complementary subscription, so you won't miss any of SOL. **http://solliterarymagazine.com Eva Hunter Editor *SOL: English Writing in Mexico* -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 03:24:00 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 08:24:00 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> <4D83B043.7080206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Once as far as I know On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Mom never made love to Dad. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> I've already heard this story, Hal! Don't you have another one...? >> >> Don't you have >> another story please >> >> (6 words!) >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> "There was a pig. It died." >>> >>> Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering >>> him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. >>> >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> --David Antin >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: >>> >>>> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >>>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a >>>> bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway >>>> story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it >>>> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite was >>>> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >>>> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >>>> >>>>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's >>>>> Journey into Night: >>>>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Available now at Amazon.com >>>>> Injuring Eternity < >>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>>>> > >>>>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >>>> MillB at aol.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: stephen russell >>>>> To: new-poetry >>>>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>>> >>>>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>>>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>>>> midget/haiku narrative. >>>>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>>>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>>>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>>>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The >>>>> best, by far, was Hemingway: >>>>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Prof. Jerry McGuire >>>> Dept. of English >>>> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >>>> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >>>> 337-482-5478 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 20 07:40:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 06:40:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <457791.55075.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com><4D83B043.7080206 @louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4D85E795.6000903@nut-n-but.net> On 3/20/2011 2:24 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Once as far as I know Which accounts for our dog, Osgood. From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 20 12:53:34 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:53:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> <4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> I would say that the average American doesn't know what poetry (as a living art form) is. And the names Richard Wilbur and John Ashbery would be met with blank stares. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems The average American considers the poetry of Wilshberia "high-brow." --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 20 13:56:43 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:56:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: job opp: PEN international executive director In-Reply-To: <8CDB46DBE0CC9C8-2124-22C37@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB46DBE0CC9C8-2124-22C37@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB53F4ED2A335-1ADC-12591@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 12:56 pm Subject: job opp: PEN international executive director Subject: ot. job opp: PEN international executive director ** *PEN International Executive Director* ****Version fran?aise ? suivre **** Versi?n en espa?ol para seguir **** PEN International, the London-based worldwide organization of writers devoted to freedom of expression, the importance of literature in a civil society, and access to literature across boundaries, seeks an Executive Director with these qualifications: ? Managerial experience, including setting the example for teamwork and delegation of tasks ? Demonstrated successful fundraising experience ? Experience in shaping and administering a budget ? Knowledge of and passion for PEN?s mission, and skills in communicating to the public, media, and governments ? Capability in at least French and/or Spanish and the ability to speak comfortably to a variety of languages and cultures. As the PEN office is in London, fluent English is a necessity ? Will take pleasure in working with PEN?s 144 Centres in 102 countries ? The ability to work in a complex international environment, with a deep understanding of issues concerning freedom of expression ? PEN International celebrates its 90th anniversary in 2011. The Executive Director needs strategic vision and the ability to work with the board, staff, and membership to formulate and articulate plans for our second century The full job description and personal specifications for the post can be downloaded from www.pen-international.org. Salary commensurate with experience 2/- Send CV and letter of interest to: EricLaxPEN at aol.com not later than 12.00 (UK time) Monday 11th April 2011. Interviews anticipated to take place in the week beginning 2 May 2011. PEN International Brownlow House 50/51 High Holborn London WC1V 6ER UK Tel: +44 (0) 20 7405 0338 Fax: <%2B44%20%280%29%2020%207405%200339>+44 (0) 20 7405 0339 skype: sara.whyatt www.pen-international.org *International PEN is trading as PEN International. International PEN is a company registered in England and Wales with registration number 05683997. International PEN is a registered charity in England and Wales with registration number 1117088. International PEN?s registered office is Brownlow House, 50-51 High Holborn, London, WC1V 6ER, UK.* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 12:45:31 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 17:45:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The New RI PILOT PROGRAM & ROTARY IDENTITY CHECKLIST FOR US ALL-Query & Quest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is so terribly hilariously intelligent critical that I might suppose - oh well, is that you, Kent? On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 4:05 AM, BY TJMST wrote: > emperical response by GBEMI TIJANI MST > > Dear Poets& Great Rotarians-I know your giving heart especially for Rotary > is commendable and has been a wayshower to the like of us who's yet > to deny tremendously (except our time) as you ve done.nb We know BILL > GATES have given big to buffer the global Polio Eradication initiative > which is yielding good dividents of rooting the deadly disease out of > the world since 1985 through 1988 WORLD HEALTH ORGAN joined this > epidemiological armory.Kudos i hope things will turn around for us too > to do likewise ina all capacities we can including wrrrrriting poetry > about humane actions > > please dont ignore this empathy reflection stabilised berely 12 hours > back > NB.I READ THE GOOD WORKS -ALMOST ALWAYS HUMANE AND BE YOND REPROACH - > WHICH ROTARY IS DOING INCLUDING RELIEF OF VICTIMS OF WORLD DISASTERS > HAITAI AND > JAPAN OF RECENT ARE BADLY HIT BY NATURE > THIS IS WHAT WELL-MEANING, INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ROTARY-not otherwise > WE HOPE BARRIERS TO EFFECTIVE CLUB FUNCTIONS CAN BE REALISED LOCALLY > HERE TOO PRESENTLY > > THAT'S WHY THE NEW RI PILOT PROGRAMME IN MEMBER DIVERSITY AND > FLEXIBILITY IN CLUB OPERATIONS WILL HELP TO MINIMISE hitherto officers > laxity or individual leadership abuse > militating in club effectiveness and member attrition > I hope all concerned on this experiment are diligent and optimistic in > making it a success > .I m particularly keen about about each of the flexible options - > satellite,corporate and Associate clubs should tacitly invite more > fun,and fervency beyond trivials.They will resplendentlyenrich > intercorporate and interpersnal relationship as well as easy synergy > for expertise needed for most of Rotary 's skill demanding involved > projects -an sometimes could be emergently required.Remember the > shelterbox response .He actually capitalised on the 32000 clubs armory > of wisdom and it turned out to be a big succes. > > .Each type should be fruitful for Rotary strategic plans in virtually > all zones & districts.However the good financial standing of each > participating club isnt too much The positive saspect of this > qualification is that incoming recruits from the corporate world will > realise that truly RI draws her resourcery from out -of- Evanston & > Donor ffriends and humanitarian practitiners like Bill Gate and this > command respect.Whereas if they meet a poor club it might send wrong > ,albeit fake signals about the typical club and wealth of will to > improve the community. > I persistently inurred in this RI program ialmost assume it should be > a mirage until i saw it repeatedly i html and downloaded it just to > hold and format it bigger. > For those in my initial plight in January i quote RI again: > Each one is designed to improve recruitment and retention, allow for > flexibility in club operations and structures, and provide Rotary > clubs with an opportunity to explore new and innovative ways to > promote member diversity -- all goals of the RI Strategic Plan. Other > potential benefits include improved leadership, engagement, and > participation among members and increased support of The Rotary > Foundation. > The pilots will allow RI to collect data and analyze results from the > participating clubs to evaluate the effectiveness of each change. > > questions -is this pilot program open to all clubs in all districts? > CAN CLUB INITIATE TO PARTICIPATE INDEPENDENT OF THE DISTRICT ? > PLEASE REPLY THESE QUESTIONS BEFORE THE DEADLINE-President I/C,,RC > OLUYOLE ESTATE, D9125 > GBEMISOYE TIJANI,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE,D9125 > > *** > THIS CHECKLIST IS TIMELY FOR MY CLUB & ALLIED OFFICIAL INTERVENTION: > > EXPECTED : > > ROTARY GREETINGS > > For many reasons I congratulate you all that this club still exists > .What then are we doing to keep it functionally alive Being > NOMINALLY alive and functionally alive carry different fate. The > latter carries more dynamism and grace by all standards of measurement > ?cultural or biological than otherwise.The same for a giving heart the > small donor as well as the major donor ought to continue this > altruistic global call.i regard it as philanthropic sowing which most > of us also hope to rate as potently rewarding too than fleshy giving > elsewhere. > With modesty and candor we have our own beauty notwithstanding all > elements of club effectiveness-even as a provisional entity-we dare a > community service(zebra crossing)-we actually initiate a long term > project( a multipurpose club house ).What was the secret behind this > spontaneous assimilation to Rotary core values and object of focus? > Were we more merely fervent without being friendly or are we more > disciplined or again more compliant to rules of procedure? Or again is > it because we were under supervision by a special Rep of the DG that > mandated the survey for a new club? > Whereas the self taught man seldom knows anything accurately and he > could ve been better if he had learned under teachers. ARNOLD THE > AMUSING WRITER endorsed this.Truly our gestationwas so prolonged than > that of our baby club chartered after ours doe this account for our > perennial wobbling ?Even then how long are going to continue wobbling > before we learn how to cope with the rules of the procedure and fine > tune PRACTICE and move to BEST PRACTICE globally in vogue ? > Also noting that Rotary is a n international club of volunteers-who > are business leaders and professionals-viable farmers & tailors > inclusive-- willing to improve the communities via jointly identified > and prioritized educational or humanitarian activities ?by now the 4th > year of our charter we ought to have learnt the rubrics to have done > better judging by the caliber of membership at inception, at charter, > at boom when we are 48 and now at filtrate point when we are 24.RI our > affiliated parent organization didn?t ignore this ?our club earned > RECOGNITION FOR MEMBERSHIP INCREASE for 2009/10 Rotary Year. So the > past hasn?t been all that bad to build on > This checklist will help to expedite that at the individual as well as > officers levels: > ? We are almost labeled a travel club.We easily settle travel levies > even before paying basicannual dues to the club & the Disitrict > locally administering us. > ? Whereas our international fellowship tours couldn?t have been > automatically tacitly facilitated were we not Rotarians or a Rotary > Club-yet fellow Rotarians have forgotten that it is Rotarian identity > that enabled that privileged tour and the local club that organized it > must run with minimal cash before matching grants could be applied > .There must also be a project pan and budget before a Rotary Partner > is identified for funding via the proper channels . > ? Travelling is good its part of Rotary as well as global experience > we need to foster peace /goodwill. > ? If we are travelled ?Rotarians we should also show this in our day > to day manners of friendship/responsibility ?decorum inclusive. We > should be fair to others and observe rules of conduct and discharge > duties assigned to the posts we hold or bear-not otherwise! > ? Should officers even contest elections or be nominated for the same > without settlement of basic dues at all? > ? Its been happening here recurrently like a decimal point yet such > officers don?t even yield by justifying the grace they ve had .There > are executives with portfolios but NOT PERFORMING. > Not around is the latest laxity. > ? Yet we are warming up for CLUB COMMITTEE?S LIST and still parading > officers still owing in March the 9th mth of a Rotary Year! Its > ridiculous and not incredibly wonderful why or how such a club will > pay RI + District capitations and still do projects worth serving the > communities let alone themselves. > ? OUR ATTENDANCE ISN?T BELOW 60% OF ENROLLEES SINCE PAST 2 YEARS > though punctuality is an aspect to be improved on? > ? BUT WHERE ARE THE COMMITTEE CHAIRS /MEMBERS TO PLAN SERVICE & > PROJECTS? > ? ARE THEY BONA FIDE MEMBERS/OFFICERS? > ? Have they paid up their dues? Even by deposits? > ? How do they emerge as officers? Are they traditionally > nominated/elected? > ? Or just fixed up to urgently routinely comply to District/RI > data requirement? > ? The consequence of this is mainly social activities/welfare issues > ?no consistent project focus > ? Not much love is also manifesting ?no practical candid unity that > can bring a functional service agenda. There ?s unproductive self > serving interest. There?s needless politics of survival askance if I > don?t hold a post I won?t be relevant to the scheme of things. Whereas > every post demands a responsibility. > ? I wish club officers /committee chairs can embrace this common > tenet. > ? > ? QUERIES? > ? Are we genuine volunteers for Rotary Club? How interpersonally > friendly? > ? How frank about the effectiveness and allied parameters of the > club as at now? > ? Do you believe or know that change is paramount now? > ? All should brace up TO SERVE SELFLESSLY > ? And disregard the obsessive office-mongers > ? PLEASE BE BOLD TO ACCEPT NOMINATIONS insofar you will be bold to > discharge the duties > ? Discharging responsibility could be fun if you know what Rotary > means > ? Don?t accept responsibility you could not figure out > time/means/talent for > ? Its honourable and facile if you accept to give talent/service & > means > ? Don?t be part of those that turn Rotary to a social club > ?acquaintance without a target service or symbiotic alliance. > ? Rotary is a fair friendly service ?oriented organization > ? Rotary is good only if we actualize the goodness in the > communities we serve. > ? Rotary is dynamic ?old glory isn?t reportable annually > ? Rotary is orderly. One officer presiding at a time. > ? Rotary has tradition ?MOP- IS ALWAYS THERE for all to read/act > ? Rotary ?s strengths is unity 33000 clubs worldwide serving humanity > ? Life is simple Its people who make it complex-RI ?PE Kalyan > Barnejee > ? Rotary?s top posts ?ceteris Paribus aren?t precociously hustled > for-one thing leads to another-REFLECTIONS from K.Barnejee-The > Rotarian March 2011 & my story too @ Oluyole Estate club.I didn?t > prematurely hustle for anything Ecclesiastically speaking all is > vanity. We ?re only trying to be ?We should actually be learning how > to be nice or permanently altruistic like BILL GATES > ? Halleluyah for interior change in us all for a better year ?time is > running out! > ? Where are our reprinted letterheads? Imagine how pedestrian a club > can be without rolling out memos inviting sagacious town/gown to talk > 2ce monthly ?besides other mandatory correspondence. > ? The sum total of Rotary Actions globally is compassion & human > love > ? If there?s a disaster or crisis RI will not be indifferent-locally > or elsewhere on the globe > ? Ditto if there?s crisis within a city, club should a Rotarian > be unruffled? > ? A boy?s head can?t be bent if there?s an elder in that > (African)community > ? Will you be part of the peace & solution if there?s a crisis within > or you will delight in fueling the flame or prolong it ?and what do > you gain from this? > ? In Rotary there?s no dead end to a crisis. Arbitration or mediation > options galore. Though Rotary doesn?t tolerate indiscipline or > high-handedness per se.Rotary activity is mutually pronged ?not a solo > affair! > ? ROTARY POSITION ISN?T DO OR DIE.ROTARY POST = SELFLESS SERVICE. > ? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FOR A 9-month SEASON OF ANOMY > ? Annul the anomy now for peace & progress of the club & the > community.. > ? Gestated on the ORDIA SUSPENSION & SEQUELAE > ? CATALYSED BY THE ABUJA PETS MARCH2011 > ? Also to inspire a Query ?have we learnt any lessons? > ? Are we heaven ?handed ?if not mindful -ourselves? > ? ROTARY GREETINGS TO ALL THAT CARE TO CREATE LOVE via > poetry,politics of good governance for all.The reward of all mental > atitude and actions even onearth for mortals may not be quantified as > the do-gooder would've imagined. > ? GBEMI0318/2011 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 15:46:41 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:46:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> <4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net> <8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Blank stares all around, no matter who is named. Teachers on FB moan about students who don't know Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix. I had a friend who was once asked by a history student at an AFB in Germany why WW2 was called WW2. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:53 AM, wrote: > I would say that the average American doesn't know what poetry (as a living > art form) is. > And the names Richard Wilbur and John Ashbery would be met with blank > stares. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 7:01 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > The average American considers the poetry of Wilshberia "high-brow." > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 14:57:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:57:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Avatar Sonnetina Message-ID: *Avatar Sonnetina* * * "Mother, if you won't teach me, who will?" --Ramakrishna Twenty-two avatars of Vishnu are found to be living in or near Paramus, New Jersey. Four sons of Brahma, known collectively as Catursana, oper- ate a carwash just off Route 17, for many years a major thoroughfare carrying New York City folks to their summer abodes in the Catskills, now merely a change of pace for those who have wearied of the Thruway. With other avatars from miles around, they celebrate the arrival of spring by holding their annual bowling tournament. 7-10 splits only. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 16:24:46 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:24:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems Message-ID: <18616357.1300652686867.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 17:00:07 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:00:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <18616357.1300652686867.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18616357.1300652686867.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ken Burns? I love people whose names are complete sentences. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > Or the college kid (I swear this is true--I was there to hear her) who'd > heard of the civil war but wasn't sure who'd won it. She'd probably never > heard of Ken Burns either. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Mar 20, 2011 3:46 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems > > Blank stares all around, no matter who is named. > Teachers on FB moan about students who don't > know Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix. I had a friend > who was once asked by a history student at an AFB > in Germany why WW2 was called WW2. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:53 AM, wrote: > >> I would say that the average American doesn't know what poetry (as a >> living art form) is. >> And the names Richard Wilbur and John Ashbery would be met with blank >> stares. >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Grumman >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2011 7:01 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems >> >> The average American considers the poetry of Wilshberia "high-brow." >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sun Mar 20 17:03:22 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:03:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: References: <18616357.1300652686867.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0C9A96A3-AE3F-41A5-90B5-42DDF40EA122@ripon.edu> Like my old friend Mary Fell, a fine poet as well as a complete sentence. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 20, 2011, at 4:00 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Ken Burns? > > I love people whose names are complete sentences. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 20 18:38:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 17:38:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sy sops.aol.com><4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net> <8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D8681F3.6070900@nut-n-but.net> On 3/20/2011 11:53 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I would say that the average American doesn't know what poetry (as a > living art form) is. > And the names Richard Wilbur and John Ashbery would be met with blank > stares. > Finnegan > Exactly. But the poetry they support is more widespread than Wilshberia. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Sun Mar 20 17:51:48 2011 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 17:51:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "prefer the gentle eddies near the shore" Message-ID: <4D863EB2.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Wasn't that Masters' nickname: Gentle Eddie? OK, so I'm not having a very bright day. It took me a little while to figure out that SOL magazine was probably *not* an acronym for Shit Outta Luck. Alan From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 20 21:19:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:19:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 10 best American poems In-Reply-To: <4D8681F3.6070900@nut-n-but.net> References: <17490673.1300387119034.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CDB46740349E24-2124-2247A@angweb-usm004.sy sops.aol.com><4D8535B3.3050105@nut-n-but.net><8CDB5367BCDDC55-1ADC-11CD5@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> <4D8681F3.6070900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D86A7AD.101@nut-n-but.net> On 3/20/2011 5:38 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/20/2011 11:53 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> I would say that the average American doesn't know what poetry (as a >> living art form) is. >> And the names Richard Wilbur and John Ashbery would be met with blank >> stares. >> Finnegan >> > Oh, the fact the average American doesn't know who Wilbur and Ashbery > are does not mean they'd not recognize the poetry of Wilshberia > (without knowing it by that name) as high-brow--like everything else > in the New Yorker, for instance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Mar 20 20:47:06 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:47:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cento made of Charlie Sheen quotes Message-ID: <5F6C9978-BC29-4AAE-8EF0-C54452A2F24E@ripon.edu> Cento made of Charlie Sheen Quotes we work for the pope by Ken Taylor we?re vatican assassins. everybody has a black belt and carries a gun. i can use a blender. i can use a vacuum cleaner. the last time i used? what do you mean? i used my toaster this morning. shut up. stop. move forward. i have a different constitution. that was the america i was raised in. if you are part of my family i will love you violently. when i?m fighting a war, there?s no room for sensitivity. that?s the code and we all live by it. my success rate is 100 percent. do the math. dying is for fools. amateurs. i?ve been a veteran of the unspeakable. if people could just read behind the hieroglyphic. you?ve been given magic. you?ve been given gold. look at these sad trolls. it?s funny how sheep rhymes with sheep. there are parts of me that are dennis hopper. (clearly he didn?t bring gum for everyone.) i am battle-tested bayonets. i don?t have burnout in my gear box. i am special and i will never be one of you. where there were four, there are now three. i?m not recovering like some pussy. i can?t make up hernia. what was she doing with a shrimp fork in her purse? rock bottom? that?s a fishing term. what?s the cure, medicine? the first one?s free, the next one goes in your mouth. if you can bring me a souvenir from that moment your father locked you in the closet, bring it to me. http://mipoesias.com/2011-2/ken-taylor/cento-made-of-charlie-sheen-quotes/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 23:54:20 2011 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:54:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear poets ( Stephen Russel et al I love the post title 6 Godamn words .its really a thughtful experiment for the sci-ffi writers I m not surprised the like Of A .C.CLARKE will precisely break the rule of the haiku variant.I don't think my most admired prolific sci-fi writer Isaac Asimov couldn't have been compliant than Hemmingway succeeded in doing out For sale baby shoes never worn In the light of my last post i will also add: We can help,Rotarians in action can we act? Rtns in name More comments on 6 Godamn words Gbemi Tijani MST NP834 On 3/19/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. 6 Goddamn words (stephen russell) > 2. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Millicent Borges Accardi) > 3. Super Full Moon (Anny Ballardini) > 4. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Jerry McGuire) > 5. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 6. The New RI PILOT PROGRAM & ROTARY IDENTITY CHECKLIST FOR US > ALL-Query & Quest (BY TJMST) > 7. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Anny Ballardini) > 8. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 9. Re: 6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:45:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <457791.55075.qm at web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. > It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of > midget/haiku > narrative. > > Margaret Atwood did a decent one. > > Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for?anything other > than > words baffles me/ maybe > she types 2,000 words per minute )?... & moving right along ... The best, by > far, was Hemingway: > > For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:58:28 -0400 (EDT) > From: Millicent Borges Accardi > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <8CDB3B599FD6A48-BC0-AFBB at Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's Journey > into Night: > > I. . . was happy for a time > > > > > > Available now at Amazon.com > Injuring Eternity > To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry > Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > > > Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. > It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of > midget/haiku narrative. > > Margaret Atwood did a decent one. > > Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything other > than words baffles me/ maybe > she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The best, by > far, was Hemingway: > > For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:01:10 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Super Full Moon > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/16mar_supermoon/ > > only once every 18 years > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:19:31 -0500 > From: Jerry McGuire > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D83B043.7080206 at louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a > bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway > story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try > it yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own > favorite was Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." > But then I've watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. > > Jerry > > Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's >> Journey into Night: >> >> I. . . was happy *for a time* >> >> >> >> >> Available now at Amazon.com >> Injuring Eternity >> >> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen russell >> To: new-poetry >> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >> midget/haiku narrative. >> >> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >> >> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >> other than words baffles me/ maybe >> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The >> best, by far, was Hemingway: >> >> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:26:26 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > "There was a pig. It died." > > Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering > him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a bunch >> of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway story. >> It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try it >> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite >> was >> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >> >> Jerry >> >> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >> >>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's Journey >>> into Night: >>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>> >>> >>> Available now at Amazon.com >>> Injuring Eternity < >>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>> > >>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: stephen russell >>> To: new-poetry >>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>> >>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>> midget/haiku narrative. >>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The best, >>> by far, was Hemingway: >>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >> 337-482-5478 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:05:39 -0700 > From: BY TJMST > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] The New RI PILOT PROGRAM & ROTARY IDENTITY > CHECKLIST FOR US ALL-Query & Quest > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > emperical response by GBEMI TIJANI MST > > Dear Poets& Great Rotarians-I know your giving heart especially for Rotary > is commendable and has been a wayshower to the like of us who's yet > to deny tremendously (except our time) as you ve done.nb We know BILL > GATES have given big to buffer the global Polio Eradication initiative > which is yielding good dividents of rooting the deadly disease out of > the world since 1985 through 1988 WORLD HEALTH ORGAN joined this > epidemiological armory.Kudos i hope things will turn around for us too > to do likewise ina all capacities we can including wrrrrriting poetry > about humane actions > > please dont ignore this empathy reflection stabilised berely 12 hours > back > NB.I READ THE GOOD WORKS -ALMOST ALWAYS HUMANE AND BE YOND REPROACH - > WHICH ROTARY IS DOING INCLUDING RELIEF OF VICTIMS OF WORLD DISASTERS > HAITAI AND > JAPAN OF RECENT ARE BADLY HIT BY NATURE > THIS IS WHAT WELL-MEANING, INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ROTARY-not otherwise > WE HOPE BARRIERS TO EFFECTIVE CLUB FUNCTIONS CAN BE REALISED LOCALLY > HERE TOO PRESENTLY > > THAT'S WHY THE NEW RI PILOT PROGRAMME IN MEMBER DIVERSITY AND > FLEXIBILITY IN CLUB OPERATIONS WILL HELP TO MINIMISE hitherto officers > laxity or individual leadership abuse > militating in club effectiveness and member attrition > I hope all concerned on this experiment are diligent and optimistic in > making it a success > .I m particularly keen about about each of the flexible options - > satellite,corporate and Associate clubs should tacitly invite more > fun,and fervency beyond trivials.They will resplendentlyenrich > intercorporate and interpersnal relationship as well as easy synergy > for expertise needed for most of Rotary 's skill demanding involved > projects -an sometimes could be emergently required.Remember the > shelterbox response .He actually capitalised on the 32000 clubs armory > of wisdom and it turned out to be a big succes. > > .Each type should be fruitful for Rotary strategic plans in virtually > all zones & districts.However the good financial standing of each > participating club isnt too much The positive saspect of this > qualification is that incoming recruits from the corporate world will > realise that truly RI draws her resourcery from out -of- Evanston & > Donor ffriends and humanitarian practitiners like Bill Gate and this > command respect.Whereas if they meet a poor club it might send wrong > ,albeit fake signals about the typical club and wealth of will to > improve the community. > I persistently inurred in this RI program ialmost assume it should be > a mirage until i saw it repeatedly i html and downloaded it just to > hold and format it bigger. > For those in my initial plight in January i quote RI again: > Each one is designed to improve recruitment and retention, allow for > flexibility in club operations and structures, and provide Rotary > clubs with an opportunity to explore new and innovative ways to > promote member diversity -- all goals of the RI Strategic Plan. Other > potential benefits include improved leadership, engagement, and > participation among members and increased support of The Rotary > Foundation. > The pilots will allow RI to collect data and analyze results from the > participating clubs to evaluate the effectiveness of each change. > > questions -is this pilot program open to all clubs in all districts? > CAN CLUB INITIATE TO PARTICIPATE INDEPENDENT OF THE DISTRICT ? > PLEASE REPLY THESE QUESTIONS BEFORE THE DEADLINE-President I/C,,RC > OLUYOLE ESTATE, D9125 > GBEMISOYE TIJANI,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE,D9125 > > *** > THIS CHECKLIST IS TIMELY FOR MY CLUB & ALLIED OFFICIAL INTERVENTION: > > EXPECTED : > > ROTARY GREETINGS > > For many reasons I congratulate you all that this club still exists > .What then are we doing to keep it functionally alive Being > NOMINALLY alive and functionally alive carry different fate. The > latter carries more dynamism and grace by all standards of measurement > ?cultural or biological than otherwise.The same for a giving heart the > small donor as well as the major donor ought to continue this > altruistic global call.i regard it as philanthropic sowing which most > of us also hope to rate as potently rewarding too than fleshy giving > elsewhere. > With modesty and candor we have our own beauty notwithstanding all > elements of club effectiveness-even as a provisional entity-we dare a > community service(zebra crossing)-we actually initiate a long term > project( a multipurpose club house ).What was the secret behind this > spontaneous assimilation to Rotary core values and object of focus? > Were we more merely fervent without being friendly or are we more > disciplined or again more compliant to rules of procedure? Or again is > it because we were under supervision by a special Rep of the DG that > mandated the survey for a new club? > Whereas the self taught man seldom knows anything accurately and he > could ve been better if he had learned under teachers. ARNOLD THE > AMUSING WRITER endorsed this.Truly our gestationwas so prolonged than > that of our baby club chartered after ours doe this account for our > perennial wobbling ?Even then how long are going to continue wobbling > before we learn how to cope with the rules of the procedure and fine > tune PRACTICE and move to BEST PRACTICE globally in vogue ? > Also noting that Rotary is a n international club of volunteers-who > are business leaders and professionals-viable farmers & tailors > inclusive-- willing to improve the communities via jointly identified > and prioritized educational or humanitarian activities ?by now the 4th > year of our charter we ought to have learnt the rubrics to have done > better judging by the caliber of membership at inception, at charter, > at boom when we are 48 and now at filtrate point when we are 24.RI our > affiliated parent organization didn?t ignore this ?our club earned > RECOGNITION FOR MEMBERSHIP INCREASE for 2009/10 Rotary Year. So the > past hasn?t been all that bad to build on > This checklist will help to expedite that at the individual as well as > officers levels: > ? We are almost labeled a travel club.We easily settle travel levies > even before paying basicannual dues to the club & the Disitrict > locally administering us. > ? Whereas our international fellowship tours couldn?t have been > automatically tacitly facilitated were we not Rotarians or a Rotary > Club-yet fellow Rotarians have forgotten that it is Rotarian identity > that enabled that privileged tour and the local club that organized it > must run with minimal cash before matching grants could be applied > .There must also be a project pan and budget before a Rotary Partner > is identified for funding via the proper channels . > ? Travelling is good its part of Rotary as well as global experience > we need to foster peace /goodwill. > ? If we are travelled ?Rotarians we should also show this in our day > to day manners of friendship/responsibility ?decorum inclusive. We > should be fair to others and observe rules of conduct and discharge > duties assigned to the posts we hold or bear-not otherwise! > ? Should officers even contest elections or be nominated for the same > without settlement of basic dues at all? > ? Its been happening here recurrently like a decimal point yet such > officers don?t even yield by justifying the grace they ve had .There > are executives with portfolios but NOT PERFORMING. > Not around is the latest laxity. > ? Yet we are warming up for CLUB COMMITTEE?S LIST and still parading > officers still owing in March the 9th mth of a Rotary Year! Its > ridiculous and not incredibly wonderful why or how such a club will > pay RI + District capitations and still do projects worth serving the > communities let alone themselves. > ? OUR ATTENDANCE ISN?T BELOW 60% OF ENROLLEES SINCE PAST 2 YEARS > though punctuality is an aspect to be improved on? > ? BUT WHERE ARE THE COMMITTEE CHAIRS /MEMBERS TO PLAN SERVICE & > PROJECTS? > ? ARE THEY BONA FIDE MEMBERS/OFFICERS? > ? Have they paid up their dues? Even by deposits? > ? How do they emerge as officers? Are they traditionally > nominated/elected? > ? Or just fixed up to urgently routinely comply to District/RI > data requirement? > ? The consequence of this is mainly social activities/welfare issues > ?no consistent project focus > ? Not much love is also manifesting ?no practical candid unity that > can bring a functional service agenda. There ?s unproductive self > serving interest. There?s needless politics of survival askance if I > don?t hold a post I won?t be relevant to the scheme of things. Whereas > every post demands a responsibility. > ? I wish club officers /committee chairs can embrace this common > tenet. > ? > ? QUERIES? > ? Are we genuine volunteers for Rotary Club? How interpersonally > friendly? > ? How frank about the effectiveness and allied parameters of the > club as at now? > ? Do you believe or know that change is paramount now? > ? All should brace up TO SERVE SELFLESSLY > ? And disregard the obsessive office-mongers > ? PLEASE BE BOLD TO ACCEPT NOMINATIONS insofar you will be bold to > discharge the duties > ? Discharging responsibility could be fun if you know what Rotary > means > ? Don?t accept responsibility you could not figure out > time/means/talent for > ? Its honourable and facile if you accept to give talent/service & > means > ? Don?t be part of those that turn Rotary to a social club > ?acquaintance without a target service or symbiotic alliance. > ? Rotary is a fair friendly service ?oriented organization > ? Rotary is good only if we actualize the goodness in the > communities we serve. > ? Rotary is dynamic ?old glory isn?t reportable annually > ? Rotary is orderly. One officer presiding at a time. > ? Rotary has tradition ?MOP- IS ALWAYS THERE for all to read/act > ? Rotary ?s strengths is unity 33000 clubs worldwide serving humanity > ? Life is simple Its people who make it complex-RI ?PE Kalyan Barnejee > ? Rotary?s top posts ?ceteris Paribus aren?t precociously hustled > for-one thing leads to another-REFLECTIONS from K.Barnejee-The > Rotarian March 2011 & my story too @ Oluyole Estate club.I didn?t > prematurely hustle for anything Ecclesiastically speaking all is > vanity. We ?re only trying to be ?We should actually be learning how > to be nice or permanently altruistic like BILL GATES > ? Halleluyah for interior change in us all for a better year ?time is > running out! > ? Where are our reprinted letterheads? Imagine how pedestrian a club > can be without rolling out memos inviting sagacious town/gown to talk > 2ce monthly ?besides other mandatory correspondence. > ? The sum total of Rotary Actions globally is compassion & human love > ? If there?s a disaster or crisis RI will not be indifferent-locally > or elsewhere on the globe > ? Ditto if there?s crisis within a city, club should a Rotarian > be unruffled? > ? A boy?s head can?t be bent if there?s an elder in that > (African)community > ? Will you be part of the peace & solution if there?s a crisis within > or you will delight in fueling the flame or prolong it ?and what do > you gain from this? > ? In Rotary there?s no dead end to a crisis. Arbitration or mediation > options galore. Though Rotary doesn?t tolerate indiscipline or > high-handedness per se.Rotary activity is mutually pronged ?not a solo > affair! > ? ROTARY POSITION ISN?T DO OR DIE.ROTARY POST = SELFLESS SERVICE. > ? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FOR A 9-month SEASON OF ANOMY > ? Annul the anomy now for peace & progress of the club & the > community.. > ? Gestated on the ORDIA SUSPENSION & SEQUELAE > ? CATALYSED BY THE ABUJA PETS MARCH2011 > ? Also to inspire a Query ?have we learnt any lessons? > ? Are we heaven ?handed ?if not mindful -ourselves? > ? ROTARY GREETINGS TO ALL THAT CARE TO CREATE LOVE via > poetry,politics of good governance for all.The reward of all mental > atitude and actions even onearth for mortals may not be quantified as > the do-gooder would've imagined. > ? GBEMI0318/2011 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:49:04 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've already heard this story, Hal! Don't you have another one...? > > Don't you have > another story please > > (6 words!) > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> "There was a pig. It died." >> >> Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering >> him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly >> Black >> , **Obras >> P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >> Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones >> ; **Tango >> Bouquet >> ; **Theory of >> Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie >> espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >> Subway >> ; **The Sonnet >> Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; >> **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & >> Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire >> wrote: >> >>> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a >>> bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway >>> story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try >>> it >>> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite >>> was >>> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >>> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >>> >>>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's >>>> Journey >>>> into Night: >>>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>>> >>>> >>>> Available now at Amazon.com >>>> Injuring Eternity < >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>>> > >>>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >>> MillB at aol.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: stephen russell >>>> To: new-poetry >>>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>> >>>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>>> midget/haiku narrative. >>>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The >>>> best, >>>> by far, was Hemingway: >>>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Prof. Jerry McGuire >>> Dept. of English >>> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >>> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >>> 337-482-5478 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:39:26 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mom never made love to Dad. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> I've already heard this story, Hal! Don't you have another one...? >> >> Don't you have >> another story please >> >> (6 words!) >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> "There was a pig. It died." >>> >>> Severn Darden (gramps) to Barbara Harris (kid pestering >>> him for a story) in a Second City skit some years back. >>> >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> --David Antin >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly >>> Black >>> , **Obras >>> P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>> Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >>> Clones >>> ; **Tango >>> Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of >>> Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie >>> espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >>> Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet >>> Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; >>> **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red >>> Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & >>> Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Jerry McGuire >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The Wired website has a page dedicated to this: >>>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html. They asked a >>>> bunch of writers (mostly sci-fi, I think) to try to match the Hemingway >>>> story. It's interesting what a struggle it was--interesting till you try >>>> it >>>> yourself (or, in my case, force my students to try it). My own favorite >>>> was >>>> Joss Whedon's: "Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so." But then I've >>>> watched /Buffy /from beginning to end five times. >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: >>>> >>>>> One of my favorites is adapted from the famous line in Long Day's >>>>> Journey into Night: >>>>> I. . . was happy *for a time* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Available now at Amazon.com >>>>> Injuring Eternity < >>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Injuring-Eternity-Millicent-Borges-Accardi/dp/0982886543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297547281&sr=1-1 >>>>> > >>>>> To request a review copy, email me at MillB at aol.com >>>> MillB at aol.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: stephen russell >>>>> To: new-poetry >>>>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am >>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>>> >>>>> Narrative online has come up with a new novelty act. >>>>> It's called the 6 word story. These little doddles are odd sorts of >>>>> midget/haiku narrative. >>>>> Margaret Atwood did a decent one. >>>>> Ditto Joyce Carol Oates ( where that woman gets the time for anything >>>>> other than words baffles me/ maybe >>>>> she types 2,000 words per minute ) ... & moving right along ... The >>>>> best, by far, was Hemingway: >>>>> /For Sale ... baby shoes ... never worn/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Prof. Jerry McGuire >>>> Dept. of English >>>> University of Louisiana at Lafayette >>>> jlm8047 at louisiana.edu >>>> 337-482-5478 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 11:51:01 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D84DEF5.2080205 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 3/19/2011 9:39 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Mom never made love to Dad. > > Good one, Hal. I never said intellectual nihilism didn't have its uses. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 34 > ***************************************** > From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 21 09:20:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:20:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cento made of Charlie Sheen quotes In-Reply-To: <5F6C9978-BC29-4AAE-8EF0-C54452A2F24E@ripon.edu> References: <5F6C9978-BC29-4AAE-8EF0-C54452A2F24E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDB5E1D6A44688-1F64-3BD3F@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> That's "Winning." -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &Views Sent: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 8:47 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Cento made of Charlie Sheen quotes Cento made of Charlie Sheen Quotes we work for the pope by Ken Taylor we?re vatican assassins. everybody has a black belt and carries a gun. i can use a blender. i can use a vacuum cleaner. the last time i used? what do you mean? i used my toaster this morning. shut up. stop. move forward. i have a different constitution. that was the america i was raised in. if you are part of my family i will love you violently. when i?m fighting a war, there?s no room for sensitivity. that?s the code and we all live by it. my success rate is 100 percent. do the math. dying is for fools. amateurs. i?ve been a veteran of the unspeakable. if people could just read behind the hieroglyphic. you?ve been given magic. you?ve been given gold. look at these sad trolls. it?s funny how sheep rhymes with sheep. there are parts of me that are dennis hopper. (clearly he didn?t bring gum for everyone.) i am battle-tested bayonets. i don?t have burnout in my gear box. i am special and i will never be one of you. where there were four, there are now three. i?m not recovering like some pussy. i can?t make up hernia. what was she doing with a shrimp fork in her purse? rock bottom? that?s a fishing term. what?s the cure, medicine? the first one?s free, the next one goes in your mouth. if you can bring me a souvenir from that moment your father locked you in the closet, bring it to me. http://mipoesias.com/2011-2/ken-taylor/cento-made-of-charlie-sheen-quotes/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 10:08:27 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:08:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnets sought In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB46EF61369BD-2124-22DCB@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Written by Decimus Iunius Juvenalis, Head of The Other Form, Government of Canada, Dept of Quicksotica On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Check the guidelines. Methinks the net is set too high. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 11:05 AM, wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:27:37 -0400 >> From: Becca Books >> Subject: Call for Submissions:Sonnets >> I'm posting this on behalf of the sponsor. All the information you need >> can >> be found at the website. Good luck. >> Becca Menon >> >> Call for sonnet submissions to: >> >> *The Phoenix Rising from the Ashes: Anthology of sonnets of the early >> third millennium >> = Le Ph?nix renaissant de ses cendres : Anthologie de sonnets au d?but >> du troisi?me mill?naire.* >> Richard Vallance, Editor-in-chief; Jim Dunlap, Co-editor, and a panel >> of 6 associate editors. >> >> Aux ?ditions Describe Adonis Press, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. ? 2012 >> ISBN 978-0-9868289-0-4 >> (projected approx. 225-250 pp.) Perfect bound; colour cover; >> illustrations in black & white & some in colour. >> >> For guidelines, please visit our site of the same name: >> >> http://vallance22.hpage.com/ >> You may submit up to 10 sonnets in English or any language, provided that >> there >> is a parallel prose translation, or even a version of the same sonnet >> in English. >> The deadline for submissions is July 1 2011. >> ______________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon Mar 21 10:24:37 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:24:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] nanopress publishing - alternative poetry publication, with gravitas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Announcing first-born of Jill Alexander Essbaum and Nic Sebastian via Lordly Dish Nanopress: http://bit.ly/dFWcg6. Alternative poetry publication with gravitas, people! Read about the nanopress model and process notes for this terrific two-year-and-seven-month endeavor. This is about encouraging each other to find creative and credible new ways to get the work of more dedicated poets out past existing publication bottle-necks, while still applying credible ?quality control? measures. I hope other poets and one-time editors will adopt the nanopress paradigm. I hope that others still will develop ever more creative publishing paradigms for the benefit of us all. A huge toast and much love to Jill Alexander Essbaum, without whom, none of this. Ditto to Reb Livingston and Amy King. Sincerely, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 21 14:11:15 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:11:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) Message-ID: <8CDB60A80B7343A-129C-2CD48@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Friday Friday Film: Stalking Grace By Tahneer Oksman Karl BissingerIn a 2007 obituary for Grace Paley published in the New York Times, Margalit Fox wrote that ?Ms. Paley was among the earliest American writers to explore the lives of women ? mostly Jewish, mostly New Yorkers ? in all their dailiness.? Lilly Rivlin?s recent documentary, ?Grace Paley: Collected Shorts,? screening March 27 at the Minneapolis Jewish Film Festival, brings together a chorus of voices from friends, family and colleagues to Paley herself, to convey a powerful portrait of an artist, poet, teacher and political figure whose depictions of the everyday lives of women had, and continue to have, a deep and powerful impact. Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/136298/#ixzz1HG4a2cNi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 14:14:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:14:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Ahsahta Press March 2011 Newsletter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Click to view this email in a browser [image: MarchMasthead11 2] Two New Books at 20% Discount: Lessness and Utopia Minus [image: Lessness-website 2] In Brian Henry?s Lessness, everything is in ruins?machines, landscapes, buildings, bodies, histories, and language. In terse elegies and effaced text, *Lessness* forces us to question the body, and through it the stability of the knowable. ?[N]ot only does Henry write about the thinghoodedness of everyday life, and about actual encounters undergone, but he also writes about these elements without damping down any of the emotional, physical, and intellectual aspects of his relationship with his world,? said Karla Kelsey in Constant Critic of Henry?s work. Buy Lessness at a 20% discount here ! Read a sample poem, the author bio, and the author statementhere! [image: UtopiaMinus-website1 2]Susan Briante?s Utopia Minusgives voice to the idea that poetry can still find life in the economic and ecological collapse of our current times. ?Briante is a detritus artist,? writes Rachel Levitsky, ?a gleaner working in the banal of the contemporary world, molding the pieces she finds into vivid mosaics.? Jean Valentine concurs: ?What a wildly intelligent, learned poet Briante is, in this biography-autobiography of the American body and soul around 2010, witnessed (and lived) with such bite, understanding, and sorrow.? Buy Utopia Minus at a 20% discount here ! Read a sample poem, the author bio, and the author statementhere! ------------------------------ Sandra Alcosser?s A Fish to Feed All Hunger Re-Issued [image: FishCoverwebsite 2]Newly typeset and redesigned, award-winning author Sandra Alcosser?s A Fish to Feed All Hungerappears in a brand new edition with its original introduction by James Tate. It will be available in April. ?By turns tender, dark, sensuous, Sandra Alcosser?s care for language is never far from center-stage. The diction is rich and appropriate. Themes and subthemes tangle in the subconscious. They are not simple, but neither are they obscure. *A Fish to Feed All Hunger* challenges and rewards those still in the habit of reading. Each moment seems to have its just emphasis. In our daily lives, we are performing a series of rites for one another. And Alcosser?s sense of ritual is keen. She gives meaning when it is most needed.? ?James Tate Read a sample poem and Buy A Fish to Feed All Hunger here ! ------------------------------ First-ever Ahsahta Chapbook Contest opens May 1, 2011 [image: WagnerCatherine 2] Ahsahta Press inaugurates its Chapbook Contest, to be judged by Cathy Wagner, left, this summer! Manuscripts of 20 to 40 pages are eligible, submitted through Submission Managerbetween May 1 and June 30, 2011. The prize of $1,000 and publication in April, 2012, will be announced in August 2011. The entry fee is $15. Read the full guidelinesfor the contest. <#12ed986ffe0858f1_> ------------------------------ News and Readings ** Dan Beachy-Quick has a new chapbook, one long poem called Heroisms, out from Poor Claudia. A new book of poems, Circle's Apprentice, will be out in May of this year. Susan Briante will read at 5 pm on March 30 at Jonsson Performance Hall at University of Texas at Dallas for Faculty at Five. On April 2, she'll read for Living Arts in Tulsa, OK, at 8pm; she will also read as part of a tribute to Akilah Oliver at WordSpace Salon in Dallas, TX, at 7:00 pm on April 28. Her new work appears in the current issue of Sous les Paves and are forthcoming from Canteen. Julie Carr is blogging for Harriet in the ?Craftwork?section during the month of March. She reads in Tucson, AZ, on April 1; at Open Books in Seattle, WA, on May 25, and for Poetry Flash in Oakland, CA, on May 26. Lisa Fishman is slow reporting news [her words!], but she has a new book out from Free Verse Editions, Parlor Press titled Current. Albion Books in San Francisco has produced her new chapbook called at the same time as scattering. She is giving a few readings in California in late March and early April, completing a book tour for Current that started at U-C San Marcos on March 3. She'll be at U-C Merced, March 29, 7 p.m. (with Richard Meier), at Off the Shelf Books, 315 W. Main St., Merced, CA; Poetic Research Bureau, April 1, 7:30 p.m. (with Richard Meier), 951 Chung King Rd., Los Angeles, CA; Beyond Baroque, April 2 , 8:30 p.m. (with Daniel Tiffany), 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, CA. She?s also reading at the Columbia Poetry Review Release Reading on May 5, 5:30 p.m., 600 S. Michigan Ave., Chicago, IL. You can see her essay on poetics (or ?articulations? in the form of seven journal entries) in the March issue (#3) of Evening Will Come, and she?s been involved in a collaborative project at Slope magazine, ?The Weather at 5:00,?in which 7 poets take turns reporting on the weather (however interpreted) each evening throughout the month of March. Lisa has new work in the current issue of 1913 and in upcoming issues of Little Red Leaves, American Letters and Commentary (summer) and Columbia Poetry Review (spring). Ahsahta will bring out her fourth book, FLOWER CART, in June. Graham Foust reads for the St. Louis Poetry Centeron April 4 with Jeff Friedman and Stefene Russell at 8pm at Schlafly Bottleworks. Kate Greenstreet?s chapbook CALLEDis just out from Delete Press. She also has new work in Dewclawand Drunken Boat . She?ll be visiting the University of Tampa, screening and talking about video poems on March 24 from 7-9 pm and reading from 8-9 pm on March 25. She reads with Kit Robinson, Ryan Eckes, and Matthew Landis at Fergie?s Pub in Philadelphia on April 16, 6 pm. Charles Hartman readsfrom his poetry and translations at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT, on March 31 at 3:30 pm. Brian Henry is on tour with Ales Steger (whose book The Book of Things he translated) and reading from Lessness at the following locations: March 21, Brown University, Providence, RI; March 22, Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA; March 24, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA; March 29, The New School, New York, NY; April 6, Cleveland State University, Cleveland, OH; April 8, Boise State University, Boise ID; and April 30, Princeton University, Princeton Poetry Festival. * * *Kirsten Kaschock* is reading April 2 at the Agitprop reading series in San Diego, and April 23 at the Spiral Bookcase in Manayunk (?my Philadelphia neighborhood?). Her book, A Beautiful Name for a Girl, appeared on the SPD Best-Seller List for the month of February. Rachel Loden?s book Dick of the Dead was reviewedin H_NGM_N #11. Three of her new poems appear in the new issue of *Volt* (#16). Rusty Morrison appeared on the Joe Milford Poetry Show and is interviewed on the Colorado Review blogin conjunction with her new work appearing in the spring issue of the magazine. Stephanie Strickland will be reading at Dartmouth College on April 15. Later that month, she?ll be reading in Norway on April 28 in connection with the introduction of the Electronic Literature Collection/2, which contains *slippingglimpse*, as published on CD in *Zone : Zero. *On May 17, she reads at e-Poetry 2011, at the Squeaky Wheel in Buffalo, NY. Brian Teare?s Pleasure is a finalist for the Northern California Book Awardand the Lambda Literary Award in Poetry ! Susan Tichy?s Gallowglass is a finalist for the ForeWord Book of the Year in Poetry ! ------------------------------ Join Us on Facebook! [image: facebook1 2]If you?re on Facebook, search out the Ahsahta Press page and click ?Like? to become a friend of ours. You can keep up with events Ahsahta Press authors have, learn about new reviews, and generally stay abreast of what?s happening with the Press. <#12ed986ffe0858f1_> ------------------------------ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe ------------------------------ Ahsahta Press Boise State University 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1525 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. [image: Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse!] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Mar 21 15:26:06 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:26:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) Message-ID: <17713319.1300735567177.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 21 15:37:32 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) In-Reply-To: <17713319.1300735567177.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17713319.1300735567177.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <191535.80211.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sarah Palin can read? News to me. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 8:26:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) This is certainly true, but strangely it would never have occurred to me to describe her as such; even though she was involved in feminist causes, among a myriad of others, her generosity was too all-inclusive to be reduced in this manner. She was a so-so poet (in my opinion) but a great short story writer,and an intense, nervous, engaged presence--she'd enter a room full of people she knew (she must have known everybody in New York) and flit from one to the other, each getting a brief, full blast of light. Most of Grace's stories are told in the voice of her alter-ego, Hope. Remarkably (I can think of no other examples, except perhaps Creeley) Hope talked (and Grace wrote) exactly as Grace talked. It was almost spooky. That little blurb neglects to mention that she was incredibly funny. The stories--there are only three books of them--are still in print. Everybody should read them. (I just imagined Sarah Palin reading them. The stories are peopled with old reds of every stripe. Sarah would be perplexed--she'd be utterly charmed, but overwhelmed with the dissonance of it all). Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Mar 21, 2011 2:11 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) > >Friday Friday Film: Stalking Grace >By Tahneer Oksman >? >Karl BissingerIn a 2007 obituary for Grace Paley published in the New York >Times, Margalit Fox wrote that ?Ms. Paley was among the earliest American >writers to explore the lives of women ? mostly Jewish, mostly New Yorkers ? in >all their dailiness.? Lilly Rivlin?s recent documentary, ?Grace Paley: Collected >Shorts,? screening March 27 at the Minneapolis Jewish Film Festival, brings >together a chorus of voices from friends, family and colleagues to Paley >herself, to convey a powerful portrait of an artist, poet, teacher and political >figure whose depictions of the everyday lives of women had, and continue to >have, a deep and powerful impact. > >Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/136298/#ixzz1HG4a2cNi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Mar 21 15:54:25 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:54:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) Message-ID: <30831408.1300737265831.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 15:56:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:56:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Shock Cocoon by Red Slider Message-ID: *Shock Cocoon* They say, not to worry the clouds, the rain, do not worry, the wind. The sea will wash away like the man on his bicycle turns and peddles away over the rooftops, or she holds her mask to her face, or carries kindling on her back, or someone's baby in his arms. Not to worry, to survive they say, *gaman*. *they're leaving us to die,* the mayor said, fifty without faces, *gaman*. a million without a place, *gaman*. ten-thousand without names, *gaman*. not to worry, not to be forgotten. The rain will wash away, the clouds, the sea number 4, number two will wash away, the faces without names will wash away, and the places, only the places, *gaman*. and the sea and the people, stunned. *I resent the nuclear plant,* the doctor said. Do not worry the clouds across the sea, the rain. I will show you with paper and broomstick and fan, the day, the sun, the means to not worry about things far away, about the way to put out fires from above, to retrieve the ashes of Pompeii, to remember the horrific rains of september, the woman beyond the door, the glass, the napkins, on the table, undisturbed. *I'm having a really strange day,* the officer said in the blackness beneath the North Tower. We will build you a shock cocoon, and they will find in it someday, across the sea, in the clouds, beneath the rain, you comforted a wheezing man on the 62nd floor, or played becalming music on the deck of a sinking ship, or lingered with a speck of dying sun deep in your body, or as a rose, by name, the shadows of Vesuvius * where children of New York would grace the doll of Hercules, reclaimed* the dazed and stunned, though oft bemused, witness to the split of wood, the lift of stone; capricious facts that hide their face in stubborn riddle as the eons pass unnoticed by, to lie in wait at the House of Souls, their names to emerge from those fragile gray cocoons, *gaman*. [Brief notes on "Shock Cocoon" are provided here"as an aid to interpretation.] ? March 2011, ?red slider. All rights reserved. This work is being made available for reprint on condition: for inclusion in any collected volume of works, all proceeds from the sale of that volume must go directly to the victims of the Japan earthquake; as a single reprint in any commercial publication, magazine, public reading, electronic or other distribution, a $10,000 donation to the victims of the Japan earthquake is required. To acquire permission, or for further information, please contact the author. ------------------------------ *Back to Lobby * -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 15:57:12 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:57:12 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Avatar Sonnetina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A good 1 On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > *Avatar Sonnetina* > * > * > > > "Mother, if you won't teach me, who will?" > > --Ramakrishna > > > > Twenty-two avatars of Vishnu are found to be living > > > in or near Paramus, New Jersey. Four sons > > > > > of Brahma, known collectively as Catursana, oper- > > > ate a carwash just off Route 17, for many years a major > > > thoroughfare carrying New York City folks to their > > > > summer abodes in the Catskills, now merely > > > a change of pace for those who have wearied of > > > the Thruway. With other avatars from miles around, > > > > they celebrate the arrival of spring by holding > > > their annual bowling tournament. 7-10 splits only. > > > > > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 21 17:31:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:31:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thoughts on Awards / Recognition Message-ID: <8CDB6266A27D3F7-738-385B@webmail-d032.sysops.aol.com> http://kinemapoetics.blogspot.com/ This year's Lambda Literary Award finalists in gay poetry are darkacre, by Greg Hewett (Coffee House Press) Other Flowers: Uncollected Poems, by James Schuyler (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) Pleasure, by Brian Teare (Ahsahta Press) The Salt Ecstasies: Poems, by James L. White (Graywolf Press) then, we were still living, by Michael Klein (GenPop Books) There were 33 submissions for this award. Of the 33, 7 were either collected, selected, or otherwise edited volumes of work by one or more poets. And to my knowledge, only 1 of the submissions was a republication of an existing volume of work. The critique I offer here is not of the Lambda Literary Foundation, the judges who selected these volumes, or of the writers I am going to discuss. Instead, I want to critique a practice in the literary community of awarding significant prizes, money, and recognition to volumes of work that I feel are somewhat counterproductive to recognize... http://kinemapoetics.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 17:47:11 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:47:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Avatar Sonnetina In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Grazie "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > A good 1 > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> *Avatar Sonnetina* >> * >> * >> >> >> "Mother, if you won't teach me, who will?" >> >> --Ramakrishna >> >> >> >> Twenty-two avatars of Vishnu are found to be living >> >> >> in or near Paramus, New Jersey. Four sons >> >> >> >> >> of Brahma, known collectively as Catursana, oper- >> >> >> ate a carwash just off Route 17, for many years a major >> >> >> thoroughfare carrying New York City folks to their >> >> >> >> summer abodes in the Catskills, now merely >> >> >> a change of pace for those who have wearied of >> >> >> the Thruway. With other avatars from miles around, >> >> >> >> they celebrate the arrival of spring by holding >> >> >> their annual bowling tournament. 7-10 splits only. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 21 19:43:55 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:43:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langdon Hammer on WS Message-ID: <8CDB638F97F2F48-C14-38E14@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> http://freevideolectures.com/Course/2462/Modern-Poetry/19# -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Mar 21 21:52:47 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:52:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thoughts on Awards / Recognition In-Reply-To: <8CDB6266A27D3F7-738-385B@webmail-d032.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB6266A27D3F7-738-385B@webmail-d032.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D8800EF.5070708@nut-n-but.net> On 3/21/2011 4:31 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://kinemapoetics.blogspot.com/ > This year's Lambda Literary Award finalists in gay poetry are > darkacre, by Greg Hewett (Coffee House Press) > Other Flowers: Uncollected Poems, by James Schuyler (Farrar, Straus & > Giroux) > Pleasure, by Brian Teare (Ahsahta Press) > The Salt Ecstasies: Poems, by James L. White (Graywolf Press) > then, we were still living, by Michael Klein (GenPop Books) > There were 33 submissions for this award. Of the 33, 7 were either > collected, selected, or otherwise edited volumes of work by one or > more poets. And to my knowledge, only 1 of the submissions was a > republication of an existing volume of work. > The critique I offer here is not of the Lambda Literary Foundation, > the judges who selected these volumes, or of the writers I am going to > discuss. Instead, I want to critique a practice in the literary > community of awarding significant prizes, money, and recognition to > volumes of work that I feel are somewhat counterproductive to recognize... > http://kinemapoetics.blogspot.com/ Wow, is this guy ever an iconoclast! And, yes, I read what he had to say. Incredibly trivial, and easy to remedy--have some prizes for the kind of book he thinks should get them and some for the kind of book he think should not. Needless to say, I don't care which kind gets the prizes. It won't be my kind. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 21 22:09:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:09:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lew Welch poem Message-ID: <8CDB64D48ADA5B1-20C-2C8BE@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> The Basic Con Those who can?t find anything to live for, always invent something to die for. Then they want the rest of us to die for it, too. These, and an elite army of thousands, who do nobody any good at all, but do great harm to some, have always collected vast sums from all. Finally, all this machinery tries to kill us, because we won?t die for it, too. Lew Welch, Ring of Bone, Collected Poems 1950-1971 (Grey Fox Press, 1973, Bolinas CA) March 21, 2011, this book found at the free bookstall outside a supermarket in West Hartford, CT. On May 23, 1971, Lewis Welch took a revolver and walked into a California forest. A presumed a suicide, his body was never recovered. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 09:39:44 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 06:39:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film: Stalking Grace (Paley) In-Reply-To: <30831408.1300737265831.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <30831408.1300737265831.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I think that for Barbara Selfridge (a short story writer with a distinctive voice), that what she meant by "stalking" Grace Paley was apprenticing herself in a way that has becoming increasingly rare in the last 30 years when creative writing has become an academic enterprise. Also, there were few writers as supportive of their students' political engagement as Paley. Carol talkingwriting.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 22 10:33:33 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:33:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?A_Hundred_Doors_by_Michael_Longley_?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_review?= Message-ID: <8CDB6B5416C2336-13B8-48C66@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/mar/20/a-hundred-doors-michael-longley-review A Hundred Doors by Michael Longley ? review With tributes to each of his six grandchildren, this talismanic collection from the Belfast poet, now 71, is testament to the view that verse is best left to the old and young -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Mar 22 13:56:19 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Message-ID: <991232.8401.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I did some starting with Horror: The stake penetrated Count Dracula's heart. Then a Western: Cowboy drew, but fired too late. & another Western: At the end of the rope... A reworking of an old myth: Eve bit into the sinful apple. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Mar 22 14:03:46 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Message-ID: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> then I tried a 6 word war story: A flag covered the soldier's casket. a Sci-Fi story: The Martains fled our polluted planet. a Romance story: Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. a disaster story: Tell them to call another ambulace. & a crime/mob story: The mayor became a made man. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj at umich.edu Tue Mar 22 14:12:32 2011 From: lattaj at umich.edu (John Latta) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." JL On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: > then I tried a 6 word war story: > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. > > a Sci-Fi story: > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. > > a Romance story: > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. > > a disaster story: > > Tell them to call another ambulace. > > & a crime/mob story: > > The mayor became a made man. > > > > From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Mar 22 14:29:44 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:29:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <991232.8401.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <991232.8401.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D88EA98.6050303@louisiana.edu> It's interesting what happens to Hemingway's story ("For sale: baby shoes, never worn") when you change just one word: Amazing sale: baby shoes, never worn For rent: baby shoes, never worn [or, For free: baby shoes, never worn] For sale: wedding shoes, never worn For sale: baby cap, never worn [or, For sale, baby chinchilla, never worn????] For sale: baby shoes, never fit or, my favorite, and the only one that projects a new story line, I think: For sale, baby shoes, worn once I've never been a huge Hemingway fan, but there's no question that this story picks up distinctive tensions and associative resonances from every word. Best, Jerry stephen russell wrote: > I did some starting with Horror: > > The stake penetrated Count Dracula's heart. > > Then a Western: > > Cowboy drew, but fired too late. > > & another Western: > > At the end of the rope... > > A reworking of an old myth: > > Eve bit into the sinful apple. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Mar 22 17:02:02 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:02:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Literature of the Absurd: Heidegger wondered about what I thought. > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): > > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." > > JL > > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: > > > then I tried a 6 word war story: > > > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. > > > > a Sci-Fi story: > > > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. > > > > a Romance story: > > > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. > > > > a disaster story: > > > > Tell them to call another ambulace. > > > > & a crime/mob story: > > > > The mayor became a made man. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 05:07:01 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (anny.ballardini at gmail.com) Date: 23 Mar 2011 09:07:01 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] anny.ballardini@gmail.com, Forwarded You This Message Message-ID: <20110323090701.16157.qmail@expe2.cheetahmail.com> Your friend thought you might enjoy this message from The Ellis Island Foundation: http://www.ellisisland.org Your friend's message: There is a lot of poetry in it, if you want to 'see' it, Anny Ballardini Having trouble viewing this e-mail? Click here : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/online?t=BNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx&email=new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu&FNAME=Anny to view online version.Please add “ellisisland at email.ellisisland.org” to your Address Book to ensure delivery to your inbox. http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/raf?t=BNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx&RAF_TRACK=NGyOxquq&email=new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Ellis Island.org http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/ellis Wall of Honor.org http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/wall Statue of Liberty.org http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/statue Dear Anny, I recently wrote you to ask for help. There is an urgent need to support Ellis Island Online, and I hope you can be one of the supporters of The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation who acts now to make a real difference. You see, the recent recession has been tough on non-profits. Many charitable organizations cut back on services or shut down altogether. But for ten years now, The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation has made Ellis Island Online : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/homepg available to you and millions of other Americans for free, and we hope to continue that excellent public service. We are committed to keeping this site open and still free for public use, but now more than ever Ellis Island Online : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/donate needs your immediate help to make this happen!If you've already responded to my last email with a donation, then thank you. If you haven't yet contributed, please consider doing so now. Today, we are asking Ellis Island Online : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/donate site registrants, such as you, Anny, for your direct help. Why? Four very important reasons: 1. Ellis Island Online is provided Free to you and millions of others, but it is costly to maintain, operate day-to-day and continually improve 2. We're non-profit, so your tax-deductible contribution is essential to our work 3. We get no government funding for our work, and never have 4. In tough times, whatever donation you can make goes even further than you can imagine in keeping Ellis Island Online free Whether you use Ellis Island Online regularly, or just once in a while, please play your part : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/donate . Any contribution is welcome, and every one will help. Click here : http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/donate to contribute directly. IT'S SAFE, EASY, AND TAX-DEDUCTIBLE. And most importantly, you will be doing your part to make the Ellis Island Records an ongoing resource for the millions of Americans, like you, who are searching for their family histories! Thank you! Please Donate http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/donate Honor your family - celebrate your heritage. http://email.ellisisland.org/a/tBNiPMMAY76hCB8ZyemNshCG-.AIGK1IJx/ellis The Statue of Liberty - Ellis Island Foundation, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 05:15:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:15:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] an interesting link Message-ID: http://www.loc.gov/poetry/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 06:00:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:00:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] How to I Love Thee? in 140 characters Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/weekinreview/20twitterature.html?src=tptw -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 23 10:04:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. ________________________________ From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words ? Literature of the Absurd: ? Heidegger wondered about what I thought. > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): > > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." > > JL > > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: > > > then I tried a 6 word war story: > > > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. > > > > a Sci-Fi story: > > > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. > > > > a Romance story: > > > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. > > > > a disaster story: > > > > Tell them to call another ambulace. > > > > & a crime/mob story: > > > > The mayor became a made man. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 10:17:43 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:17:43 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. > Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* R Dillon > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > > Literature of the Absurd: > > Heidegger wondered about what I thought. > > > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word > > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): > > > > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. > > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." > > > > JL > > > > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: > > > > > then I tried a 6 word war story: > > > > > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. > > > > > > a Sci-Fi story: > > > > > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. > > > > > > a Romance story: > > > > > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. > > > > > > a disaster story: > > > > > > Tell them to call another ambulace. > > > > > > & a crime/mob story: > > > > > > The mayor became a made man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Mar 23 10:34:42 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:34:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. > Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. > > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > > Literature of the Absurd: > > Heidegger wondered about what I thought. > > > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word > > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): > > > > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. > > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." > > > > JL > > > > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: > > > > > then I tried a 6 word war story: > > > > > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. > > > > > > a Sci-Fi story: > > > > > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. > > > > > > a Romance story: > > > > > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. > > > > > > a disaster story: > > > > > > Tell them to call another ambulace. > > > > > > & a crime/mob story: > > > > > > The mayor became a made man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 23 10:35:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:35:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" In-Reply-To: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler> References: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler> Message-ID: <8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Contemporary Poetry Review To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 6:11 pm Subject: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our emails. "The Lighter Side: Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" 1) You should recite your poetry, not read it. 2) If you can't recite your poetry, then you can't remember your poetry. And if you can't remember your poetry, why would anyone else? 3) A poetry recital should be a performance. Most poets read their poems in front of an audience as if they were lecturing to a group of college students. This betrays two illusions. The first is that the poetry audience is the same as a classroom of captives. The second is that the audience must indulge the poet, rather than the poet showing sufficient respect for the audience to entertain it.... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Joan Houlihan on Ange Mlinko Reviewed: Shoulder Season by Ange Mlinko. Coffee House Press, 2010. 81 pages If Shoulder Season were a town, it would be a deserted one. All evidence of life-buildings, boardwalks, beds and tables, monuments and blankets, pots of flowers, tools, cars and cribs-would be left intact, the people gone. The only sound would be a voice emanating from a speaker left on somewhere. Wandering into this town, so eerily empty of human life, we would naturally be attracted to the disembodied voice: Who is speaking? What is it saying? To whom is it addressing itself? If an orchidphage's tastebud magnified resembles an orchid So my buds indubitably mimic pricking ice cream cones. "Win-Win" Clearly, someone is concerned with the bacterium of an orchid-more specifically, the taste bud of said bacterium. How the taste bud may or may not resemble the thing it has invaded (the orchid), and how this resemblance relates to the speaker's "buds" are implied questions as well. Will the speaker's taste buds also mimic the thing(s) it invades, in this case (indubitably!) "pricking ice cream cones"? This may be the only voice we hear. It's important we get it right. Do bacteria invade orchids? Do bacteria have taste buds? Do ice cream cones "prick"? Is the insertion of "indubitably" a verbal wink to the listener? If so, why? Is it all supposed to be funny? To whom? Who is the audience for this joke? What is the joke, exactly? Joke or not, we want to know: is there sense to be made of these lines? (The joke can't be "gotten" without a background of sense.) Or is the speaker talking to herself? Wandering into Shoulder Season is as mystifying and estranging and frustrating as this... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ The Hard to Get Rid Of: Jason Guriel on Recently Published Poems (An Occasional Series: Part One) Poems reviewed in this article: "From a Window" by Christian Wiman, from the Atlantic (July/August 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. "Gesundheit" by Robyn Sarah, from Maisonneuve (Summer 2008). "Gesundheit" is in Sarah's forthcoming collection Pause for Breath (Biblioasis, 2009), and reprinted with permission of the publisher. "Infomercial 2," by John Ashbery; "When the Fog," by August Kleinzahler; and "The Polling Place" by Joshua Mehigan, from the New York Times Online (November 4, 2008). "Forty Acres," by Derek Walcott, from the Times Online (November 5, 2008). "Selected Monsters," by Steven Heighton, from the London Review of Books (July 3, 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. Recently, I asked the American poet Samuel Menashe what he was reading-a simple enough question, I thought. If you're familiar with Mr. Menashe's concise poems-poems that usually occupy no more than a few lines, masterful poems that have been, quite literally, honed to within an inch of their lives-then you already know they're unlike any other show in town, and you've probably wondered, like me, what the author of such ascetic, exacting poetry reads for his pleasure. But Mr. Menashe has little interest in discussing what's on his bookshelf. In the past, he would even throw a sheet over that shelf to discourage visitors from inspecting his books' spines... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Making The Angels Wince: Roy Nicosia on Frances Payne Adler Reviewed: The Making of a Matriot by Frances Payne Adler. Red Hen Press, 2003. 100 pages, $13.95. The Making of a Matriot is the sort of book that makes one embarrassed for poets in general, and Frances Payne Adler in particular. The author, who directs something called "the Creative Writing and Social Action Program at the California State University at Monterey Bay" will start a poem on the subject of health care with-- we're here to talk about poor women and work, poor women and work, as if they don't work, but that's another story, we're here to talk about poor women, --lines so leaden that even sympathetic readers may find themselves moved to rage and mockery, like Congregationalists force-fed a sermon on universal goodwill and redemption by some stuttering preacher. These poems deliver messages the way bumper stickers tell stories-in three or four bold words, all capped in enormous type. Not that Adler minds angering her audience--being a self-described "social activist," she probably delights in the agitation (even if it's merely outrage at her crude polemics). Plato banned all the poets from his ideal republic, but you feel that he might have welcomed Adler-so naked is her message, so regular is her drum-beating-but then would Plato's republic have lived up to Adler's hopes for the socialist worker's paradise... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference For poets with a book-length or chapbook-length manuscript: real-time editorial evaluation, real-world publishing information. Fifty books published since 2006. 2011 Faculty: Editors, Authors & Publishers Mariela Griffor, Marick Press Jeffrey Levine, Tupelo Press Martha Rhodes, Four Way Books Jeffrey Shotts, Graywolf Press Peter Covino, Barrow Street Press Gabriel Fried, Persea Books Henry Israeli, Saturnalia Books Joan Houlihan, Lesley University Fred Marchant, Suffolk University Ellen Dor? Watson, Smith College Upcoming: June 10-13 & July 15-18 For details on location, requirements and cost, visit us online: www.colrainpoetry.com You may also: Call: (978) 897-0054 Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference c/o Concord Poetry Center 40 Stow Street, Concord, MA 01742 _______________________________________________________ Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by cpreview at aol.com | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. Contemporary Poetry Review | P.O. Box 5222 | Arlington | VA | 22205 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 10:44:31 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:44:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Six goddamn words are too few To tell a lovely old story And break a frail one's heart, Too few to sing of glory Or assail the pinnacles of art, Six goddamn words just will not do. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 23 10:45:41 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. ________________________________ From: "Graham, David" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty.? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. > >?? ? > > >"is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell >wrote: > >I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >> >>Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >> >> >> ________________________________ From: R Dillon >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >>? >>Literature of the Absurd: >>? >>Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >> >>> Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word >>> story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >>> >>> Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >>> "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >>> >>> JL >>> >>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >>> >>> > then I tried a 6 word war story: >>> > >>> > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >>> > >>> > a Sci-Fi story: >>> > >>> > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >>> > >>> > a Romance story: >>> > >>> > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >>> > >>> > a disaster story: >>> > >>> > Tell them to call another ambulace. >>> > >>> > & a crime/mob story: >>> > >>> > The mayor became a made man. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 10:54:25 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:54:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A fish became uncertain and drowned. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:45 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Graham, David" > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > > Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >> Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* R Dillon < >> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> >> Literature of the Absurd: >> >> Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >> >> > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word >> > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >> > >> > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >> > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >> > >> > JL >> > >> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >> > >> > > then I tried a 6 word war story: >> > > >> > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >> > > >> > > a Sci-Fi story: >> > > >> > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >> > > >> > > a Romance story: >> > > >> > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >> > > >> > > a disaster story: >> > > >> > > Tell them to call another ambulace. >> > > >> > > & a crime/mob story: >> > > >> > > The mayor became a made man. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 23 10:54:41 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <626151.90626.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ...?that Ms. Taylor was eminently quotable. Distraught after her showman husband, Mike Todd, died in a plane crash in 1958, she sought the company of married entertainer Eddie Fisher, whom she later wed. ?Well, Mike is dead and I'm alive,? she said. ?What do you expect me to do? Sleep alone?? 2 gossip stories: Mike is dead and I'm alive. Am I supposed to sleep alone? ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:45:41 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. ________________________________ From: "Graham, David" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty.? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. > >?? ? > > >"is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell >wrote: > >I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >> >>Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >> >> >> ________________________________ From: R Dillon >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >>? >>Literature of the Absurd: >>? >>Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >> >>> Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word >>> story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >>> >>> Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >>> "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >>> >>> JL >>> >>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >>> >>> > then I tried a 6 word war story: >>> > >>> > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >>> > >>> > a Sci-Fi story: >>> > >>> > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >>> > >>> > a Romance story: >>> > >>> > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >>> > >>> > a disaster story: >>> > >>> > Tell them to call another ambulace. >>> > >>> > & a crime/mob story: >>> > >>> > The mayor became a made man. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:00:21 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:00:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" In-Reply-To: <8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> References: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler> <8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I hate them too, but for contrary reasons. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:35 AM, wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Contemporary Poetry Review > To: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 6:11 pm > Subject: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" > > You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please > confirmyour continued interest in receiving email from us. > > You may unsubscribeif you no longer wish to receive our emails. > [image: CPR Logo] > > "The Lighter Side: Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry > Readings)" > > > 1) You should *recite* your poetry, not *read* it. > > 2) If you can't recite your poetry, then you can't *remember* your > poetry. And if you can't remember your poetry, why would anyone else? > > 3) A poetry *recital* should be a *performance*. Most poets *read* their > poems in front of an audience as if they were lecturing to a group of > college students. This betrays two illusions. The first is that the poetry > audience is the same as a classroom of captives. The second is that the > audience must indulge the poet, rather than the poet showing sufficient > respect for the audience to *entertain* it.... > > > (Click here to read more.) > > * * > _______________________________________________________ > > > Joan Houlihan on Ange Mlinko > > Reviewed: *Shoulder Season *by Ange Mlinko. Coffee House Press, 2010. 81 > pages > > If *Shoulder Season* were a town, it would be a deserted one. All > evidence of life-buildings, boardwalks, beds and tables, monuments and > blankets, pots of flowers, tools, cars and cribs-would be left intact, the > people gone. The only sound would be a voice emanating from a speaker left > on somewhere. Wandering into this town, so eerily empty of human life, we > would naturally be attracted to the disembodied voice: Who is speaking? What > is it saying? To whom is it addressing itself? > > If an orchidphage's tastebud magnified > > resembles an orchid > > So my buds indubitably mimic pricking ice cream cones. > > "Win-Win" > > Clearly, someone is concerned with the bacterium of an orchid-more > specifically, the taste bud of said bacterium. How the taste bud may or may > not resemble the thing it has invaded (the orchid), and how this resemblance > relates to the speaker's "buds" are implied questions as well. Will the > speaker's taste buds also mimic the thing(s) it invades, in this > case (indubitably!) "pricking ice cream cones"? This may be the only voice > we hear. It's important we get it right. Do bacteria invade orchids? Do > bacteria *have *taste buds? Do ice cream cones "prick"? Is the insertion > of "indubitably" a verbal wink to the listener? If so, why? Is it all > supposed to be funny? To whom? Who is the audience for this joke? What *is > * the joke, exactly? Joke or not, we want to know: is there sense to be > made of these lines? (The joke can't be "gotten" without a background of > sense.) Or is the speaker talking to herself? Wandering into *Shoulder > Season* is as mystifying and estranging and frustrating as this... > > > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * * > _______________________________________________________ > > The Hard to Get Rid Of: Jason Guriel on Recently Published Poems > > *(An Occasional Series: Part One)* > * * > Poems reviewed in this article: > > 1. "From a Window" by Christian Wiman, from the *Atlantic* (July/August > 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. > 2. "Gesundheit" by Robyn Sarah, from *Maisonneuve* (Summer 2008). > "Gesundheit" is in Sarah's forthcoming collection *Pause for Breath*(Biblioasis, 2009), and reprinted with permission of the publisher. > 3. "Infomercial 2," by John Ashbery; "When the Fog," by August > Kleinzahler; and "The Polling Place" by Joshua Mehigan, from the *New > York Times *Online (November 4, 2008). > 4. "Forty Acres," by Derek Walcott, from the *Times *Online (November > 5, 2008). > 5. "Selected Monsters," by Steven Heighton, from the *London Review of > Books* (July 3, 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. > > Recently, I asked the American poet Samuel Menashe what he was reading-a > simple enough question, I thought. If you're familiar with Mr. Menashe's > concise poems-poems that usually occupy no more than a few lines, masterful > poems that have been, quite literally, honed to within an inch of their > lives-then you already know they're unlike any other show in town, and > you've probably wondered, like me, what the author of such ascetic, exacting > poetry reads for *his* pleasure. But Mr. Menashe has little interest in > discussing what's on his bookshelf. In the past, he would even throw a sheet > over that shelf to discourage visitors from inspecting his books' spines... > > > > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * > _______________________________________________________ > * > > Making The Angels Wince: > Roy Nicosia on Frances Payne Adler > * * > * *Reviewed: * **The Making of a Matriot* by Frances Payne Adler. Red Hen > Press, 2003. 100 pages, $13.95. > > > *The Making of a Matriot* is the sort of book that makes one embarrassed > for poets in general, and Frances Payne Adler in particular. The author, who > directs something called "the Creative Writing and Social Action Program at > the California State University at Monterey Bay" will start a poem on the > subject of health care with-- > > we're here to talk about poor women and work, poor > women and work, as if they don't work, but that's > another story, we're here to talk about poor women, > > > --lines so leaden that even sympathetic readers may find themselves moved > to rage and mockery, like Congregationalists force-fed a sermon on universal > goodwill and redemption by some stuttering preacher. These poems deliver > messages the way bumper stickers tell stories-in three or four bold words, > all capped in enormous type. Not that Adler minds angering her > audience--being a self-described "social activist," she probably delights in > the agitation (even if it's merely outrage at her crude polemics). Plato > banned all the poets from his ideal republic, but you feel that he might > have welcomed Adler-so naked is her message, so regular is her > drum-beating-but then would Plato's republic have lived up to Adler's hopes > for the socialist worker's paradise... > * > > > * > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > * > > Colrain > Poetry Manuscript Conference > > > For poets with a book-length or chapbook-length manuscript: real-time > editorial evaluation, real-world publishing information. Fifty books > published since 2006. > > > * * > *2011 Faculty: **Editors, Authors & Publishers* > > Mariela Griffor, *Marick Press* > Jeffrey Levine, *Tupelo Press > *Martha Rhodes, *Four Way Books > *Jeffrey Shotts, *Graywolf Press > *Peter Covino, *Barrow Street Press > *Gabriel Fried, *Persea Books* > * *Henry Israeli, *Saturnalia Books > *Joan Houlihan, *Lesley University > *Fred Marchant, *Suffolk University > *Ellen Dor? Watson, *Smith College * > > > > * **Upcoming: June 10-13 & July 15-18* > > > For details on location, requirements and cost, visit us online: > www.colrainpoetry.com > > > > > You may also: > Call: (978) 897-0054 > Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com > Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference > c/o Concord Poetry Center > 40 Stow Street, Concord, MA 01742 > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forward email > > > This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by cpreview at aol.com | > Update Profile/Email Address > | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? > | Privacy Policy > . > Contemporary Poetry Review | P.O. Box 5222 | Arlington | VA | 22205 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Mar 23 11:56:20 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" In-Reply-To: References: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler><8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB789FC1139EA-15E0-55EC@webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com> I really enjoyed these Five Lessons! Backwards is right. So few writers read their work aloud FIRST. That was one of the best tips I got from Sam Hammill early in my "career" as a poet. Mill I'm sad because no one likes my Special Interest page! Click here to "like" -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:00 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" I hate them too, but for contrary reasons. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:35 AM, wrote: -----Original Message----- From: Contemporary Poetry Review To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 6:11 pm Subject: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our emails. "The Lighter Side: Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" 1) You should recite your poetry, not read it. 2) If you can't recite your poetry, then you can't remember your poetry. And if you can't remember your poetry, why would anyone else? 3) A poetry recital should be a performance. Most poets read their poems in front of an audience as if they were lecturing to a group of college students. This betrays two illusions. The first is that the poetry audience is the same as a classroom of captives. The second is that the audience must indulge the poet, rather than the poet showing sufficient respect for the audience to entertain it.... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Joan Houlihan on Ange Mlinko Reviewed: Shoulder Season by Ange Mlinko. Coffee House Press, 2010. 81 pages If Shoulder Season were a town, it would be a deserted one. All evidence of life-buildings, boardwalks, beds and tables, monuments and blankets, pots of flowers, tools, cars and cribs-would be left intact, the people gone. The only sound would be a voice emanating from a speaker left on somewhere. Wandering into this town, so eerily empty of human life, we would naturally be attracted to the disembodied voice: Who is speaking? What is it saying? To whom is it addressing itself? If an orchidphage's tastebud magnified resembles an orchid So my buds indubitably mimic pricking ice cream cones. "Win-Win" Clearly, someone is concerned with the bacterium of an orchid-more specifically, the taste bud of said bacterium. How the taste bud may or may not resemble the thing it has invaded (the orchid), and how this resemblance relates to the speaker's "buds" are implied questions as well. Will the speaker's taste buds also mimic the thing(s) it invades, in this case (indubitably!) "pricking ice cream cones"? This may be the only voice we hear. It's important we get it right. Do bacteria invade orchids? Do bacteria have taste buds? Do ice cream cones "prick"? Is the insertion of "indubitably" a verbal wink to the listener? If so, why? Is it all supposed to be funny? To whom? Who is the audience for this joke? What is the joke, exactly? Joke or not, we want to know: is there sense to be made of these lines? (The joke can't be "gotten" without a background of sense.) Or is the speaker talking to herself? Wandering into Shoulder Season is as mystifying and estranging and frustrating as this... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ The Hard to Get Rid Of: Jason Guriel on Recently Published Poems (An Occasional Series: Part One) Poems reviewed in this article: "From a Window" by Christian Wiman, from the Atlantic (July/August 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. "Gesundheit" by Robyn Sarah, from Maisonneuve (Summer 2008). "Gesundheit" is in Sarah's forthcoming collection Pause for Breath (Biblioasis, 2009), and reprinted with permission of the publisher. "Infomercial 2," by John Ashbery; "When the Fog," by August Kleinzahler; and "The Polling Place" by Joshua Mehigan, from the New York Times Online (November 4, 2008). "Forty Acres," by Derek Walcott, from the Times Online (November 5, 2008). "Selected Monsters," by Steven Heighton, from the London Review of Books (July 3, 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. Recently, I asked the American poet Samuel Menashe what he was reading-a simple enough question, I thought. If you're familiar with Mr. Menashe's concise poems-poems that usually occupy no more than a few lines, masterful poems that have been, quite literally, honed to within an inch of their lives-then you already know they're unlike any other show in town, and you've probably wondered, like me, what the author of such ascetic, exacting poetry reads for his pleasure. But Mr. Menashe has little interest in discussing what's on his bookshelf. In the past, he would even throw a sheet over that shelf to discourage visitors from inspecting his books' spines... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Making The Angels Wince: Roy Nicosia on Frances Payne Adler Reviewed: The Making of a Matriot by Frances Payne Adler. Red Hen Press, 2003. 100 pages, $13.95. The Making of a Matriot is the sort of book that makes one embarrassed for poets in general, and Frances Payne Adler in particular. The author, who directs something called "the Creative Writing and Social Action Program at the California State University at Monterey Bay" will start a poem on the subject of health care with-- we're here to talk about poor women and work, poor women and work, as if they don't work, but that's another story, we're here to talk about poor women, --lines so leaden that even sympathetic readers may find themselves moved to rage and mockery, like Congregationalists force-fed a sermon on universal goodwill and redemption by some stuttering preacher. These poems deliver messages the way bumper stickers tell stories-in three or four bold words, all capped in enormous type. Not that Adler minds angering her audience--being a self-described "social activist," she probably delights in the agitation (even if it's merely outrage at her crude polemics). Plato banned all the poets from his ideal republic, but you feel that he might have welcomed Adler-so naked is her message, so regular is her drum-beating-but then would Plato's republic have lived up to Adler's hopes for the socialist worker's paradise... (Click here to read more.) _______________________________________________________ Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference For poets with a book-length or chapbook-length manuscript: real-time editorial evaluation, real-world publishing information. Fifty books published since 2006. 2011 Faculty: Editors, Authors & Publishers Mariela Griffor, Marick Press Jeffrey Levine, Tupelo Press Martha Rhodes, Four Way Books Jeffrey Shotts, Graywolf Press Peter Covino, Barrow Street Press Gabriel Fried, Persea Books Henry Israeli, Saturnalia Books Joan Houlihan, Lesley University Fred Marchant, Suffolk University Ellen Dor? Watson, Smith College Upcoming: June 10-13 & July 15-18 For details on location, requirements and cost, visit us online: www.colrainpoetry.com You may also: Call: (978) 897-0054 Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference c/o Concord Poetry Center 40 Stow Street, Concord, MA 01742 _______________________________________________________ Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by cpreview at aol.com | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. Contemporary Poetry Review | P.O. Box 5222 | Arlington | VA | 22205 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Mar 23 13:49:39 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:49:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: No one knows what Shakespeare thought. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM, "James Cervantes" wrote: > A fish became uncertain and drowned. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:45 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. > > From: "Graham, David" > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty. > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > >> Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >> Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >> G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell wrote: >> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >> Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >> >> From: R Dillon >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> >> Literature of the Absurd: >> >> Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >> >> > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word >> > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >> > >> > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >> > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >> > >> > JL >> > >> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >> > >> > > then I tried a 6 word war story: >> > > >> > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >> > > >> > > a Sci-Fi story: >> > > >> > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >> > > >> > > a Romance story: >> > > >> > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >> > > >> > > a disaster story: >> > > >> > > Tell them to call another ambulace. >> > > >> > > & a crime/mob story: >> > > >> > > The mayor became a made man. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:29:38 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:29:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" In-Reply-To: <8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> References: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler> <8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: But these five qualities are in poetry readings I attend. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:35 AM, wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Contemporary Poetry Review > To: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 6:11 pm > Subject: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" > > You're receiving this email because of your relationship with CPR. Please > confirmyour continued interest in receiving email from us. > > You may unsubscribeif you no longer wish to receive our emails. > [image: CPR Logo] > > "The Lighter Side: Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry > Readings)" > > > 1) You should *recite* your poetry, not *read* it. > > 2) If you can't recite your poetry, then you can't *remember* your > poetry. And if you can't remember your poetry, why would anyone else? > > 3) A poetry *recital* should be a *performance*. Most poets *read* their > poems in front of an audience as if they were lecturing to a group of > college students. This betrays two illusions. The first is that the poetry > audience is the same as a classroom of captives. The second is that the > audience must indulge the poet, rather than the poet showing sufficient > respect for the audience to *entertain* it.... > > > (Click here to read more.) > > * * > _______________________________________________________ > > > Joan Houlihan on Ange Mlinko > > Reviewed: *Shoulder Season *by Ange Mlinko. Coffee House Press, 2010. 81 > pages > > If *Shoulder Season* were a town, it would be a deserted one. All > evidence of life-buildings, boardwalks, beds and tables, monuments and > blankets, pots of flowers, tools, cars and cribs-would be left intact, the > people gone. The only sound would be a voice emanating from a speaker left > on somewhere. Wandering into this town, so eerily empty of human life, we > would naturally be attracted to the disembodied voice: Who is speaking? What > is it saying? To whom is it addressing itself? > > If an orchidphage's tastebud magnified > > resembles an orchid > > So my buds indubitably mimic pricking ice cream cones. > > "Win-Win" > > Clearly, someone is concerned with the bacterium of an orchid-more > specifically, the taste bud of said bacterium. How the taste bud may or may > not resemble the thing it has invaded (the orchid), and how this resemblance > relates to the speaker's "buds" are implied questions as well. Will the > speaker's taste buds also mimic the thing(s) it invades, in this > case (indubitably!) "pricking ice cream cones"? This may be the only voice > we hear. It's important we get it right. Do bacteria invade orchids? Do > bacteria *have *taste buds? Do ice cream cones "prick"? Is the insertion > of "indubitably" a verbal wink to the listener? If so, why? Is it all > supposed to be funny? To whom? Who is the audience for this joke? What *is > * the joke, exactly? Joke or not, we want to know: is there sense to be > made of these lines? (The joke can't be "gotten" without a background of > sense.) Or is the speaker talking to herself? Wandering into *Shoulder > Season* is as mystifying and estranging and frustrating as this... > > > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * * > _______________________________________________________ > > The Hard to Get Rid Of: Jason Guriel on Recently Published Poems > > *(An Occasional Series: Part One)* > * * > Poems reviewed in this article: > > 1. "From a Window" by Christian Wiman, from the *Atlantic* (July/August > 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. > 2. "Gesundheit" by Robyn Sarah, from *Maisonneuve* (Summer 2008). > "Gesundheit" is in Sarah's forthcoming collection *Pause for Breath*(Biblioasis, 2009), and reprinted with permission of the publisher. > 3. "Infomercial 2," by John Ashbery; "When the Fog," by August > Kleinzahler; and "The Polling Place" by Joshua Mehigan, from the *New > York Times *Online (November 4, 2008). > 4. "Forty Acres," by Derek Walcott, from the *Times *Online (November > 5, 2008). > 5. "Selected Monsters," by Steven Heighton, from the *London Review of > Books* (July 3, 2008). Reprinted with permission of the author. > > Recently, I asked the American poet Samuel Menashe what he was reading-a > simple enough question, I thought. If you're familiar with Mr. Menashe's > concise poems-poems that usually occupy no more than a few lines, masterful > poems that have been, quite literally, honed to within an inch of their > lives-then you already know they're unlike any other show in town, and > you've probably wondered, like me, what the author of such ascetic, exacting > poetry reads for *his* pleasure. But Mr. Menashe has little interest in > discussing what's on his bookshelf. In the past, he would even throw a sheet > over that shelf to discourage visitors from inspecting his books' spines... > > > > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * > _______________________________________________________ > * > > Making The Angels Wince: > Roy Nicosia on Frances Payne Adler > * * > * *Reviewed: * **The Making of a Matriot* by Frances Payne Adler. Red Hen > Press, 2003. 100 pages, $13.95. > > > *The Making of a Matriot* is the sort of book that makes one embarrassed > for poets in general, and Frances Payne Adler in particular. The author, who > directs something called "the Creative Writing and Social Action Program at > the California State University at Monterey Bay" will start a poem on the > subject of health care with-- > > we're here to talk about poor women and work, poor > women and work, as if they don't work, but that's > another story, we're here to talk about poor women, > > > --lines so leaden that even sympathetic readers may find themselves moved > to rage and mockery, like Congregationalists force-fed a sermon on universal > goodwill and redemption by some stuttering preacher. These poems deliver > messages the way bumper stickers tell stories-in three or four bold words, > all capped in enormous type. Not that Adler minds angering her > audience--being a self-described "social activist," she probably delights in > the agitation (even if it's merely outrage at her crude polemics). Plato > banned all the poets from his ideal republic, but you feel that he might > have welcomed Adler-so naked is her message, so regular is her > drum-beating-but then would Plato's republic have lived up to Adler's hopes > for the socialist worker's paradise... > * > > > * > (Click here to read more.) > > > > * > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > * > > Colrain > Poetry Manuscript Conference > > > For poets with a book-length or chapbook-length manuscript: real-time > editorial evaluation, real-world publishing information. Fifty books > published since 2006. > > > * * > *2011 Faculty: **Editors, Authors & Publishers* > > Mariela Griffor, *Marick Press* > Jeffrey Levine, *Tupelo Press > *Martha Rhodes, *Four Way Books > *Jeffrey Shotts, *Graywolf Press > *Peter Covino, *Barrow Street Press > *Gabriel Fried, *Persea Books* > * *Henry Israeli, *Saturnalia Books > *Joan Houlihan, *Lesley University > *Fred Marchant, *Suffolk University > *Ellen Dor? Watson, *Smith College * > > > > * **Upcoming: June 10-13 & July 15-18* > > > For details on location, requirements and cost, visit us online: > www.colrainpoetry.com > > > > > You may also: > Call: (978) 897-0054 > Email: conferences at colrainpoetry.com > Write: Colrain Poetry Manuscript Conference > c/o Concord Poetry Center > 40 Stow Street, Concord, MA 01742 > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forward email > > > This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by cpreview at aol.com | > Update Profile/Email Address > | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? > | Privacy Policy > . > Contemporary Poetry Review | P.O. Box 5222 | Arlington | VA | 22205 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:23:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:23:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry, that is a tricky one, you can extend it like this: no one knows what Schiller thought no one knows what Milton thought .... On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Graham, David wrote: > 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: > > No one knows what Shakespeare thought. > > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM, "James Cervantes" > wrote: > > A fish became uncertain and drowned. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:45 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "Graham, David" < GrahamD at ripon.edu> >> *To:* NewPoetry List < >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> *Sent:* Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty. >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >>> Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* R Dillon < >>> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> >>> *To:* >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> *Sent:* Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>> >>> >>> Literature of the Absurd: >>> >>> Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >>> >>> > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great seven-word >>> >>> > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >>> > >>> > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >>> > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >>> > >>> > JL >>> > >>> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >>> > >>> > > then I tried a 6 word war story: >>> > > >>> > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >>> > > >>> > > a Sci-Fi story: >>> > > >>> > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >>> > > >>> > > a Romance story: >>> > > >>> > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >>> > > >>> > > a disaster story: >>> > > >>> > > Tell them to call another ambulace. >>> > > >>> > > & a crime/mob story: >>> > > >>> > > The mayor became a made man. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: > http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:27:30 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:27:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu> <358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: no one thought what anyone knows "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Sorry, that is a tricky one, > you can extend it like this: > > no one knows what Schiller thought > no one knows what Milton thought > .... > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Graham, David wrote: > >> 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: >> >> No one knows what Shakespeare thought. >> >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM, "James Cervantes" >> wrote: >> >> A fish became uncertain and drowned. >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:45 AM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* "Graham, David" < GrahamD at ripon.edu> >>> *To:* NewPoetry List < >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>> *Sent:* Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>> >>> Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty. >>> >>> =================== >>> David Graham >>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>> >>> Home page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> ==================== >>> >>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. >>> >>> >>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>> --David Antin >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell < >>> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >>>> Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* R Dillon < >>>> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> >>>> *To:* >>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> *Sent:* Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>> >>>> >>>> Literature of the Absurd: >>>> >>>> Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >>>> >>>> > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great >>>> seven-word >>>> > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >>>> > >>>> > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >>>> > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >>>> > >>>> > JL >>>> > >>>> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > then I tried a 6 word war story: >>>> > > >>>> > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >>>> > > >>>> > > a Sci-Fi story: >>>> > > >>>> > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >>>> > > >>>> > > a Romance story: >>>> > > >>>> > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >>>> > > >>>> > > a disaster story: >>>> > > >>>> > > Tell them to call another ambulace. >>>> > > >>>> > > & a crime/mob story: >>>> > > >>>> > > The mayor became a made man. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: >> http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 23 18:37:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:37:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <488013.38882.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><150728.54791.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><844E4958-CC51-4F08-AB5C-C46280DE84EF@ripon.edu><358096.87242.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D8A763A.3070502@nut-n-but.net> On 3/23/2011 4:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Sorry, that is a tricky one, > you can extend it like this: > > no one knows what Schiller thought > no one knows what Milton thought Did Heisenberg know what Heisenberg thought? --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Mar 23 17:40:07 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Anny, you miss the point, I fear. We do know what Schiller & Milton thought, because they wrote it down. We know what Hamlet and Lear thought, in contrast, but not Shakespeare. . . . On 3/23/11 4:23 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Sorry, that is a tricky one, > you can extend it like this: > > no one knows what Schiller thought > no one knows what Milton thought > .... > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Graham, David wrote: >> 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: >> >> No one knows what Shakespeare thought.? >> >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM, "James Cervantes" >> wrote: >> >>> A fish became uncertain and drowned. >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:45 AM, stephen russell < >>> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> Godel gave Heisenberg's theory considerable thought. >>>> >>>> >>>> From: "Graham, David" < GrahamD at ripon.edu> >>>> To: NewPoetry List < >>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>> Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:42 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>> >>>> Heisenberg was very sure about uncertainty.? >>>> >>>> =================== >>>> David Graham >>>> Grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> >>>> Home page: >>>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:26 AM, "Halvard Johnson" < >>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Heidegger was not sure about uncertainty. >>>>> ?? ? >>>>> >>>>> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >>>>> ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>> >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>> >>>>> Mainly Black >>>>> >>>> bTkC2EkAP3IM&hl=en&pli=1#> ,?Obras P?blicas >>>>> >>>> s> ;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>>> >>>> RT-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> ; >>>>> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>>> >>>> 90/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> ;?Tango Bouquet >>>>> >>>> en> ;?Theory of Harmony >>>>> >>>> /theory1.pdf> ;? >>>>> Rapsodie espagnole >>>>> >>>> i.pdf> ;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>>> >>>> _1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> ;?The Sonnet Project >>>>> >>>> t.pdf> ;? >>>>> G(e)nome ;?Winter >>>>> Journey ;?Eclipse >>>>> ;?The Dance of the Red >>>>> Swan ; >>>>> Transparencies & Projections >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, stephen russell < >>>>> >>>>> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> I thought about Heidegger, and wondered. >>>>>> Erotica: Eve bit into the absurd apple. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: R Dillon < >>>>>> >>>>>> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 5:02:02 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >>>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Literature of the Absurd: >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Heidegger wondered about what I thought. >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Puts me in mind of the Guatamalan Augusto Monterroso's great >>>>>>> seven-word >>>>>>> > story, "El Dinosaurio" ("The Dinosaur"): >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Cuando desperto, el dinosaurio todavia estaba alli. >>>>>>> > "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > JL >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, stephen russell wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > > then I tried a 6 word war story: >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > A flag covered the soldier's casket. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > a Sci-Fi story: >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > The Martains fled our polluted planet. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > a Romance story: >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > Judy suddenly blushed as Roger proposed. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > a disaster story: >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > Tell them to call another ambulace. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > & a crime/mob story: >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > The mayor became a made man. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:45:09 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:45:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ahhh, you have a point there! On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:40 PM, David Graham wrote: > Dear Anny, you miss the point, I fear. We do know what Schiller & Milton > thought, because they wrote it down. We know what Hamlet and Lear thought, > in contrast, but not Shakespeare. . . . > > > On 3/23/11 4:23 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > > Sorry, that is a tricky one, > you can extend it like this: > > no one knows what Schiller thought > no one knows what Milton thought > .... > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Graham, David wrote: > > 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: > > No one knows what Shakespeare thought. > > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:47:11 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:47:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's a point that David has. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Ahhh, you have a point there! > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:40 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Dear Anny, you miss the point, I fear. We do know what Schiller & >> Milton thought, because they wrote it down. We know what Hamlet and Lear >> thought, in contrast, but not Shakespeare. . . . >> >> >> On 3/23/11 4:23 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: >> >> Sorry, that is a tricky one, >> you can extend it like this: >> >> no one knows what Schiller thought >> no one knows what Milton thought >> .... >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Graham, David wrote: >> >> 6 Word Summary of 6-Foot Shelf: >> >> No one knows what Shakespeare thought. >> >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 23 19:07:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:07:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> On 3/23/2011 4:45 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Ahhh, you have a point there! > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:40 PM, David Graham > wrote: > > Dear Anny, you miss the point, I fear. We do know what Schiller & > Milton thought, because they wrote it down. We know what Hamlet > and Lear thought, in contrast, but not Shakespeare. . . . > How do we know they were telling the truth? (To be technical, Shakespeare did twice write down what he thought.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Mar 23 18:12:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:12:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: "Five Lessons from AWP (Or, Why We Hate Poetry Readings)" In-Reply-To: References: <1104919039765.1101694517006.2467.6.3918100C@scheduler><8CDB77EA9E838E7-EE0-2D65@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB7BE89EE0CD5-1D1C-2CE7@webmail-m039.sysops.aol.com> 2) If you can?t recite your poetry, then you can?t remember your poetry. And if you can?t remember your poetry, why would anyone else? -- Another reason to do away with all those useless books? I have to say, other than good slam poets who present something akin to a 3-min one-person play, I'm usually not impressed when a poet recites vast swathes of his/her work from memory. The few I've seen do it have written lesser poetry yet seem to be infatuated with their work, or at least a little too pleased by these language things they have delivered unto our very eager ears. There is a notion in communication which says we listen harder and more intently when the speaker has trouble speaking, provided of course we are interest the what the speaker has to say. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Wed Mar 23 18:28:29 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:28:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] the fickle nature of snakes (revised) Message-ID: <20110323152829.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.efb9ea9bf7.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Mar 23 20:47:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:47:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > (To be technical, Shakespeare did twice write down what he thought.) > > --Bob ------------------ So what did Shakespeare think, Bob? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Mar 23 21:32:20 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:32:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob: where? c On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/23/2011 4:45 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Ahhh, you have a point there! > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:40 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >> Dear Anny, you miss the point, I fear. ?We do know what Schiller & Milton >> thought, because they wrote it down. ?We know what Hamlet and Lear thought, >> in contrast, but not Shakespeare. . . . > > How do we know they were telling the truth?? (To be technical, Shakespeare > did twice write down what he thought.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 06:09:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:09:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems Message-ID: from: http://machansonderiendutout.blogspot.com/ Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? (guestpost by Louise Baker!) Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? Evidence has supported the claim that there is in fact a link between creativity and certain types of mental disorders for hundreds of years. The specific relationship between the two is apparent when you examine what mental disorders have in common with creativity. It is necessary for an individual to view things abnormally in order to possess creative qualities. Abnormally thinking about things is a very common occurrence for a person showing signs of psychopathological or neurological disorders. There a wide variety of mental disorders that are known to somehow be connected with creativity. Some of the most common disorders known to make patients show an increased propensity toward creativity include: * Autism * Dementia * Bipolar Disorder * Epilepsy * Depression Hundreds of years of history and literature have painted a clear picture, illuminating the similarities between extremely creative and mentally ill individuals. One of the most famous examples of a mentally ill person being extremely creative and intellectually gifted was Albert Einstein. Einstein?s unique gifts were directly related to a barrage of mental illnesses, which include developmental language and dyslexia disorders. Most consider Einstein?s creativity and extremely high levels of intelligence to be somehow directly linked with his mental disorders, although the direct mechanism thought responsible for the similarities is not known. One of the most widely accepted scientific studies within the scientific community took place during 1949, and provided evidence that individuals with a natural predisposition towards bipolar disorder also tend to be naturally predisposed to creativity. The study?s findings provided evidence that two-thirds of the studied artists, writers, composers, architects and their families were normal. However, the study concluded that overall the group as a whole had a significantly higher percentage of individuals showing signs of mental disorders, when compared to the general public. The group studied had a high percentage of individuals that could be classified as neurotic, and even insane. The experiment provided results supporting the facts that around fifty percent of the poets studied and about forty percent of the musicians studied had some kind of psychiatric abnormality. When it comes down to it, ADD/ADHD, dementia, autism and bipolar disorder all seem to be somehow directly linked to creativity by the similar qualities bf both. Many of history?s most well respected writers suffered from the mental disorder epilepsy, including Fyodor Dostoevsky and Edgar Allen Poe. The link between the two is not exactly known, but there is some evidence supporting the idea that increased levels of creativity develop hand in hand with the onset of the disorder. Many scientists believe that the increased levels of creativity are somehow connected with how the human brain reacts to the onset of mental diseases. Louise Baker is a freelance blogger who usually writes about accredited online colleges for Zen College Life. Her most recent article ranked engineering degrees. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 24 07:19:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:19:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Bob: where? In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale told by an idiot. --Bob From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Thu Mar 24 07:05:50 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:05:50 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way that dedications to patrons were riddled with conventionality, it's a stretch to say they contain what "Shakespeare really thought". Let alone whether what's contained in the dedications is worth thinking in the first place. There might, if you're following this line, be a case that the Sonnets contain What Shakespeare Really Thought, more so, I'd feel, with whatever qualifications, than Astrophil and Stella containing What Philip Sidney Really Thought. The problem, of course, is to what degree we "trust" the 'I' of confessional verse, or indeed any lyric poetry. I'd put the Sonnets in a line stretching forward through Coleridge in "Dejection: A Letter" to Berryman and Lowell, and then on, with Berryman perhaps even consciously using them as a model for Confessional Verse through Berryman's Sonnets (Lise? Jane? Whoever ...). Robin -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:19 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Bob: where? In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale told by an idiot. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Thu Mar 24 07:17:44 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 04:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <671328.7423.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for this new source. I am new to Blogging--just set up my site a few weeks ago. I also have a son who has a personality disorder and he writes quite a bit, so I began a dialogue with him and posted some of our writing together on my new blog spot. I also wrote an article about "Transforming the Perception of Mental Illness" which is included in the blog spot. Url address follows:? http://culturalblanket.wordpress.com S.E. Black ? ?Sheila Black --- On Thu, 3/24/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 5:09 AM from: http://machansonderiendutout.blogspot.com/ Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? (guestpost by Louise Baker!) Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? Evidence has supported the claim that there is in fact a link between creativity and certain types of mental disorders for hundreds of years. The specific relationship between the two is apparent when you examine what mental disorders have in common with creativity. It is necessary for an individual to view things abnormally in order to possess creative qualities. Abnormally thinking about things is a very common occurrence for a person showing signs of psychopathological or neurological disorders. There a wide variety of mental disorders that are known to somehow be connected with creativity. Some of the most common disorders known to make patients show an increased propensity toward creativity include: * Autism * Dementia * Bipolar Disorder * Epilepsy * Depression Hundreds of years of history and literature have painted a clear picture, illuminating the similarities between extremely creative and mentally ill individuals. One of the most famous examples of a mentally ill person being extremely creative and intellectually gifted was Albert Einstein. Einstein?s unique gifts were directly related to a barrage of mental illnesses, which include developmental language and dyslexia disorders. Most consider Einstein?s creativity and extremely high levels of intelligence to be somehow directly linked with his mental disorders, although the direct mechanism thought responsible for the similarities is not known. One of the most widely accepted scientific studies within the scientific community took place during 1949, and provided evidence that individuals with a natural predisposition towards bipolar disorder also tend to be naturally predisposed to creativity. The study?s findings provided evidence that two-thirds of the studied artists, writers, composers, architects and their families were normal. However, the study concluded that overall the group as a whole had a significantly higher percentage of individuals showing signs of mental disorders, when compared to the general public. The group studied had a high percentage of individuals that could be classified as neurotic, and even insane. The experiment provided results supporting the facts that around fifty percent of the poets studied and about forty percent of the musicians studied had some kind of psychiatric abnormality. When it comes down to it, ADD/ADHD, dementia, autism and bipolar disorder all seem to be somehow directly linked to creativity by the similar qualities bf both. Many of history?s most well respected writers suffered from the mental disorder epilepsy, including Fyodor Dostoevsky and Edgar Allen Poe. The link between the two is not exactly known, but there is some evidence supporting the idea that increased levels of creativity develop hand in hand with the onset of the disorder. Many scientists believe that the increased levels of creativity are somehow connected with how the human brain reacts to the onset of mental diseases. Louise Baker is a freelance blogger who usually writes about accredited online colleges for Zen College Life. Her most recent article ranked engineering degrees. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 07:29:25 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 04:29:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems In-Reply-To: <671328.7423.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <671328.7423.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow! is right. ?I?m living under a cultural blanket in a dynasty of wonder.? Interesting, Sheila. Thanks for letting us know about your blog. - Jim On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:17 AM, sheila black wrote: > Thanks for this new source. I am new to Blogging--just set up my site a few > weeks ago. I also have a son who has a personality disorder and he writes > quite a bit, so I began a dialogue with him and posted some of our writing > together on my new blog spot. I also wrote an article about "Transforming > the Perception of Mental Illness" which is included in the blog spot. Url > address follows: http://culturalblanket.wordpress.com > S.E. Black > > * Sheila Black * > > > --- On *Thu, 3/24/11, Anny Ballardini * wrote: > > > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 5:09 AM > > > from: http://machansonderiendutout.blogspot.com/ > > > Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? (guestpost by Louise > Baker!) > Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? > > Evidence has supported the claim that there is in fact a link between > creativity and certain types of mental disorders for hundreds of years. The > specific relationship between the two is apparent when you examine what > mental disorders have in common with creativity. It is necessary for an > individual to view things abnormally in order to possess creative qualities. > Abnormally thinking about things is a very common occurrence for a person > showing signs of psychopathological or neurological disorders. > > There a wide variety of mental disorders that are known to somehow be > connected with creativity. Some of the most common disorders known to make > patients show an increased propensity toward creativity include: > > * Autism > * Dementia > * Bipolar Disorder > * Epilepsy > * Depression > > Hundreds of years of history and literature have painted a clear picture, > illuminating the similarities between extremely creative and mentally ill > individuals. One of the most famous examples of a mentally ill person being > extremely creative and intellectually gifted was Albert Einstein. Einstein?s > unique gifts were directly related to a barrage of mental illnesses, which > include developmental language and dyslexia disorders. Most consider > Einstein?s creativity and extremely high levels of intelligence to be > somehow directly linked with his mental disorders, although the direct > mechanism thought responsible for the similarities is not known. > > One of the most widely accepted scientific studies within the scientific > community took place during 1949, and provided evidence that individuals > with a natural predisposition towards bipolar disorder also tend to be > naturally predisposed to creativity. The study?s findings provided evidence > that two-thirds of the studied artists, writers, composers, architects and > their families were normal. However, the study concluded that overall the > group as a whole had a significantly higher percentage of individuals > showing signs of mental disorders, when compared to the general public. > > The group studied had a high percentage of individuals that could be > classified as neurotic, and even insane. The experiment provided results > supporting the facts that around fifty percent of the poets studied and > about forty percent of the musicians studied had some kind of psychiatric > abnormality. When it comes down to it, ADD/ADHD, dementia, autism and > bipolar disorder all seem to be somehow directly linked to creativity by the > similar qualities bf both. > > Many of history?s most well respected writers suffered from the mental > disorder epilepsy, including Fyodor Dostoevsky and Edgar Allen Poe. The link > between the two is not exactly known, but there is some evidence supporting > the idea that increased levels of creativity develop hand in hand with the > onset of the disorder. Many scientists believe that the increased levels of > creativity are somehow connected with how the human brain reacts to the > onset of mental diseases. > > Louise Baker is a freelance blogger who usually writes about accredited > online colleges for Zen College Life. Her most recent article ranked > engineering degrees. > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Thu Mar 24 07:40:13 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 04:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <570500.45067.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's what he said. After giving him all my English and American Lit books. I need to find other books to influence that strong mind of his--not as propaganda though! :) sheila ? ?Sheila Black --- On Thu, 3/24/11, James Cervantes wrote: From: James Cervantes Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 6:29 AM Wow! is right.??I?m living under a cultural blanket in a dynasty of wonder.? ?Interesting, Sheila. Thanks for letting us know about your blog. - Jim On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:17 AM, sheila black wrote: Thanks for this new source. I am new to Blogging--just set up my site a few weeks ago. I also have a son who has a personality disorder and he writes quite a bit, so I began a dialogue with him and posted some of our writing together on my new blog spot. I also wrote an article about "Transforming the Perception of Mental Illness" which is included in the blog spot. Url address follows:? http://culturalblanket.wordpress.com S.E. Black ? ?Sheila Black --- On Thu, 3/24/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: [New-Poetry] artistic and mental - abilities and problems To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 5:09 AM from: http://machansonderiendutout.blogspot.com/ Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? (guestpost by Louise Baker!) Artistic Ability and Mental Problems: Is There A Link? Evidence has supported the claim that there is in fact a link between creativity and certain types of mental disorders for hundreds of years. The specific relationship between the two is apparent when you examine what mental disorders have in common with creativity. It is necessary for an individual to view things abnormally in order to possess creative qualities. Abnormally thinking about things is a very common occurrence for a person showing signs of psychopathological or neurological disorders. There a wide variety of mental disorders that are known to somehow be connected with creativity. Some of the most common disorders known to make patients show an increased propensity toward creativity include: * Autism * Dementia * Bipolar Disorder * Epilepsy * Depression Hundreds of years of history and literature have painted a clear picture, illuminating the similarities between extremely creative and mentally ill individuals. One of the most famous examples of a mentally ill person being extremely creative and intellectually gifted was Albert Einstein. Einstein?s unique gifts were directly related to a barrage of mental illnesses, which include developmental language and dyslexia disorders. Most consider Einstein?s creativity and extremely high levels of intelligence to be somehow directly linked with his mental disorders, although the direct mechanism thought responsible for the similarities is not known. One of the most widely accepted scientific studies within the scientific community took place during 1949, and provided evidence that individuals with a natural predisposition towards bipolar disorder also tend to be naturally predisposed to creativity. The study?s findings provided evidence that two-thirds of the studied artists, writers, composers, architects and their families were normal. However, the study concluded that overall the group as a whole had a significantly higher percentage of individuals showing signs of mental disorders, when compared to the general public. The group studied had a high percentage of individuals that could be classified as neurotic, and even insane. The experiment provided results supporting the facts that around fifty percent of the poets studied and about forty percent of the musicians studied had some kind of psychiatric abnormality. When it comes down to it, ADD/ADHD, dementia, autism and bipolar disorder all seem to be somehow directly linked to creativity by the similar qualities bf both. Many of history?s most well respected writers suffered from the mental disorder epilepsy, including Fyodor Dostoevsky and Edgar Allen Poe. The link between the two is not exactly known, but there is some evidence supporting the idea that increased levels of creativity develop hand in hand with the onset of the disorder. Many scientists believe that the increased levels of creativity are somehow connected with how the human brain reacts to the onset of mental diseases. Louise Baker is a freelance blogger who usually writes about accredited online colleges for Zen College Life. Her most recent article ranked engineering degrees. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 07:53:36 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:53:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD Message-ID: Does this look awry? Click here to view in your browser. POETRY FICTION MAGAZINES SPD's POETRY BEST-SELLERS FEBRUARY 2011 1. *The Sourceby Noah Eli Gordon (Futurepoem Books) * 2. *After the Arkby Luke Johnson (NYQ Books) * 3. *Pink Elephantby Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) * 4. *Expedition: New and Selected Poemsby Arthur Vogelsang (Ashland Poetry Press) * 5. *The Lessonsby Joanne Diaz (Silverfish Review Press) * 6. *The Bledby Frances McCue (Factory Hollow Press) * 7. *Hi-Density Politicsby Urayo?n Noel (BlazeVOX Books) * 8. *Humanimal: A Project for Future Childrenby Bhanu Kapil (Kelsey Street Press) * 9. *People Are Tiny in Paintings of Chinaby Cynthia Arrieu-King (Octopus Books) * 10. *Clamorby Elyse Fenton (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) * 11. *Home/Birth: A Poemicby Arielle Greenberg and Rachel Zucker (1913 Press) * 12. *You and Three Others Are Approaching a Lakeby Anna Moschovakis (Coffee House Press) * 13. *Meddle English: New and Selected Textsby Caroline Bergvall (Nightboat Books) * 14. *The Whalen Poemby William Corbett (Hanging Loose Press) * 15. *This Time We Are Bothby Clark Coolidge (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 16. *Selected Poemsby Roy Fisher (Flood Editions) * 17. *The Bark of the Dogby Merrill Gilfillan (Flood Editions) * 18. *a beautiful name for a girlby Kirsten Kaschock (Ahsahta Press) * 19. *60 Textosby Sarah Riggs (Ugly Duckling Presse) * 20. *An Introduction to the Prose Poemby Brian Clements and Jamey Dunham, Editors (Firewheel Editions) * 21. *There Are People Who Say That Painters Shouldn't Talk: A GUSTONBOOKby Patrick James Dunagan (The Post-Apollo Press) * 22. *Bathsheba Transatlanticby Sarah Wetzel (Anhinga Press) * 23. *Styrofoamby Evelyn Reilly (Roof Books) * 24. *The Networkby Jena Osman (Fence Books) * 25. *Poemsby Grace Zabriskie (NYQ Books) * 26. *Late in the Antenna Fieldsby Alan Gilbert (Futurepoem Books) * 27. *Determinationby Kit Robinson (Cuneiform Press) * 28. *The Tree of Noby Sandy Florian (Action Books) * 29. *Beauportby Kate Colby (Litmus Press) * 30. *The Grief Performanceby Emily Kendal Frey (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) * FACEBOOK| TWITTER| BLOG| POETRY BEST-SELLERS| FICTION BEST-SELLERS| MAGAZINES Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on Pubnet, SAN 1066617. Questions? Contact Clay at clay at spdbooks.org orders at spdbooks.org ? www.spdbooks.org? 800.869.7553 ? fax: 510.524.0852 *Forward email * This email was sent to anny.ballardini at tin.it by clay at spdbooks.org | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy . Small Press Distribution | 1341 Seventh Street | Berkeley | CA | 94710 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:34:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:34:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] SPD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks fine from here, Anny. (Depending on what "awry" means.) "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Does this look awry? Click here to view in your browser. > > > > POETRY > > FICTION > > MAGAZINES > SPD's POETRY BEST-SELLERS FEBRUARY 2011 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. *The Sourceby Noah Eli Gordon (Futurepoem Books) > * > 2. *After the Arkby Luke Johnson (NYQ Books) > * > 3. *Pink Elephantby Rachel McKibbens (Cypher Books) > * > 4. *Expedition: New and Selected Poemsby Arthur Vogelsang (Ashland Poetry Press) > * > 5. *The Lessonsby Joanne Diaz (Silverfish Review Press) > * > 6. *The Bledby Frances McCue (Factory Hollow Press) > * > 7. *Hi-Density Politicsby Urayo?n Noel (BlazeVOX Books) > * > 8. *Humanimal: A Project for Future Childrenby Bhanu Kapil (Kelsey Street Press) > * > 9. *People Are Tiny in Paintings of Chinaby Cynthia Arrieu-King (Octopus Books) > * > 10. *Clamorby Elyse Fenton (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) > * > 11. *Home/Birth: A Poemicby Arielle Greenberg and Rachel Zucker (1913 Press) > * > 12. *You and Three Others Are Approaching a Lakeby Anna Moschovakis (Coffee House Press) > * > 13. *Meddle English: New and Selected Textsby Caroline Bergvall (Nightboat Books) > * > 14. *The Whalen Poemby William Corbett (Hanging Loose Press) > * > 15. *This Time We Are Bothby Clark Coolidge (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 16. *Selected Poemsby Roy Fisher (Flood Editions) > * > 17. *The Bark of the Dogby Merrill Gilfillan (Flood Editions) > * > 18. *a beautiful name for a girlby Kirsten Kaschock (Ahsahta Press) > * > 19. *60 Textosby Sarah Riggs (Ugly Duckling Presse) > * > 20. *An Introduction to the Prose Poemby Brian Clements and Jamey Dunham, Editors (Firewheel Editions) > * > 21. *There Are People Who Say That Painters Shouldn't Talk: A > GUSTONBOOKby Patrick James Dunagan (The Post-Apollo Press) > * > 22. *Bathsheba Transatlanticby Sarah Wetzel (Anhinga Press) > * > 23. *Styrofoamby Evelyn Reilly (Roof Books) > * > 24. *The Networkby Jena Osman (Fence Books) > * > 25. *Poemsby Grace Zabriskie (NYQ Books) > * > 26. *Late in the Antenna Fieldsby Alan Gilbert (Futurepoem Books) > * > 27. *Determinationby Kit Robinson (Cuneiform Press) > * > 28. *The Tree of Noby Sandy Florian (Action Books) > * > 29. *Beauportby Kate Colby (Litmus Press) > * > 30. *The Grief Performanceby Emily Kendal Frey (Cleveland State University Poetry Center) > * > > FACEBOOK| > TWITTER| > BLOG| POETRY > BEST-SELLERS| FICTION > BEST-SELLERS| > MAGAZINES > Try Electronic Ordering! SPD is on Pubnet, SAN 1066617. Questions? Contact > Clay at clay at spdbooks.org > orders at spdbooks.org ? www.spdbooks.org? 800.869.7553 ? fax: 510.524.0852 > > *Forward email > * > > > > > This email was sent to anny.ballardini at tin.it by clay at spdbooks.org | > Update Profile/Email Address > | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? > | Privacy Policy > . > > Small Press Distribution | 1341 Seventh Street | Berkeley | CA | 94710 > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:32:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:32:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: No one knows what anyone thinks. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> Bob: where? >> > > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first > person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he > was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can ever tell what > any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never > thought life was a tale told by an idiot. > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 24 13:01:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:01:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8B78EF.5000208@nut-n-but.net> On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way that > dedications to patrons were riddled with conventionality, it's a > stretch to say they contain what "Shakespeare really thought". Let > alone whether what's contained in the dedications is worth thinking in > the first place. > > There might, if you're following this line, be a case that the Sonnets > contain What Shakespeare Really Thought, more so, I'd feel, with > whatever qualifications, than Astrophil and Stella containing What > Philip Sidney Really Thought. > > The problem, of course, is to what degree we "trust" the 'I' of > confessional verse, or indeed any lyric poetry. I'd put the Sonnets > in a line stretching forward through Coleridge in "Dejection: A > Letter" to Berryman and Lowell, and then on, with Berryman perhaps > even consciously using them as a model for Confessional Verse through > Berryman's Sonnets (Lise? Jane? Whoever ...). > > Robin Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought when you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about what you thought. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 15:32:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:32:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Jeff Harrison Message-ID: Make Ready is my new e-book from Chalk Editions: http://www.scribd.com/doc/50136381/Jeff-Harrison-MAKE-READY My other Chalk Editions e-book is GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE: http://www.scribd.com/doc/37672655/Jeff-Harrison-GRANDUNCLES-OF-THE-CATTLETRADE -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Thu Mar 24 16:34:24 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:34:24 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8B78EF.5000208@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B78EF.5000208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? We're usually singing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to Shakespeare. I could go into more detail, as to why I think the New Criticism, for all its virtues, goes catastrophically wrong when it comes to a certain class of Renaissance English poetry, but for the moment, a quasi-platonic observation -- like all poets, Archilochus was a compulsive liar, but he was a different *kind* of compulsive liar than Homer. Robin ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:01 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way that SNIP > Robin Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought when you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about what you thought. --Bob From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Mar 24 16:45:58 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:45:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. www.mikesnider.org On Mar 24, 2011, at 7:19, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> Bob: where? > > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale told by an idiot. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 24 17:58:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:58:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net><4D8B78EF.5000208@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8BBE74.8010500@nut-n-but.net> On 3/24/2011 3:34 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. > > Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? I was just joking. Alas, I think you generally do mean what you say. See, I just can't restrain the wit. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Mar 24 18:02:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:02:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> Message-ID: <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor think he might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was grateful to him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement is. But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If automatic writing does it. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Thu Mar 24 17:33:56 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:33:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words Message-ID: <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I genuinely like Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Grumman >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor think he >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was grateful to >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement is. >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If automatic >writing does it. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 18:00:55 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:00:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I thought you'd like him, Mark. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I genuinely like > Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Grumman > >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor think he > >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was grateful to > >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement is. > >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If automatic > >writing does it. > > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Mar 24 18:13:49 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:13:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words Message-ID: <2057724.1301004829556.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 18:36:47 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox is "Halvard, junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop before Hogwarts. - Jim On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I thought you'd like him, Mark. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > >> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I genuinely like >> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Bob Grumman >> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM >> >To: NewPoetry List >> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words >> > >> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. >> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor think he >> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was grateful to >> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second >> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of >> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement is. >> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one >> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If automatic >> >writing does it. >> > >> >--Bob >> >_______________________________________________ >> >New-Poetry mailing list >> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 18:57:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:57:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On your way to wherever, Halvard Junction is a four-way stop. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox is "Halvard, > junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop before Hogwarts. > > - Jim > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I thought you'd like him, Mark. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: >> >>> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I genuinely like >>> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >From: Bob Grumman >>> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM >>> >To: NewPoetry List >>> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words >>> > >>> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >>> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. >>> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor think he >>> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was grateful to >>> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second >>> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of >>> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement is. >>> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one >>> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If automatic >>> >writing does it. >>> > >>> >--Bob >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >New-Poetry mailing list >>> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Mar 24 21:58:04 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:58:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true feelings... c On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor think he > might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was grateful to him > fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second dedication? ?In > any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere > thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I think anything > one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does nothing but > automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Thu Mar 24 22:08:07 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:08:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing > a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful > way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed > to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > feelings... > > c > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >>> >>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. >> >> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor think he >> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was grateful to him >> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second dedication? ?In >> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere >> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I think anything >> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does nothing but >> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From chris at chrislott.org Thu Mar 24 22:13:09 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:13:09 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: True enough. It just so happens I recently read two books about Shakespeare that are a great combination. Greenblatt's _Will in the World_, which is a thick volume of well-informed speculation on Shakespeare... but unlike many books he goes to some length to make clear that he is speculating and how/why. Then Bill Bryson's _Shakespeare: World as Stage_, which is pretty much the exact opposite: Bryson set out to document what we really do know about Shakespeare (not much!) and delves into the source of some of the stories taken too often for truth. And, of course, he does it in an elegant, funny, readable manner (one of the reasons I love Bryson), while remaining incisive, including a delicious takedown of the "Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare" crowd, which sadly includes too many people I know and who should know better. c On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind >> between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing >> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that >> Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit >> the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful >> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be >> right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of >> his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed >> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. >> >> I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is >> bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true >> feelings... >> >> c >> >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >>> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: >>>> >>>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. >>> >>> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor think he >>> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was grateful to him >>> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second dedication? ?In >>> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere >>> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I think anything >>> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does nothing but >>> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. >>> >>> --Bob >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 04:32:13 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:32:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Corporate Conquest of America Message-ID: http://www.truth-out.org/unequal-protections-from-birth-american-democracy-through-birth-corporate-personhood68647 Women Ask, 'Can I Be a ?Person,? Too?? Interestingly, during the era of the Santa Clara decision granting corporations the full protections of persons under the Constitution, two other groups also brought cases to the Supreme Court, asking for similar protections. The first group was women. This was a movement with a fascinating history, its roots in the American Revolution itself. In March 1776 thirty-two-year-old Abigail Adams sat at her writing table in her home in Braintree, Massachusetts, a small town a few hours? ride south of Boston. The war between the American colonists and their opponents-the governors and the soldiers of the East India Company and its British protectors-had been going on for about a year. A small group of the colonists gathered in Philadelphia to edit Thomas Jefferson?s Declaration of Independence for the new nation they were certain was about to be born, and Abigail?s husband, John Adams, was among the men editing that document. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Mar 25 07:25:10 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:25:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net><7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org><4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8C7B96.6010305@nut-n-but.net> On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing > a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful > way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed > to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > feelings... > > c As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible to know for sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris. But the original question had to do with writing that indicated what a writer thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in the first-person should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing his thoughts. The dedications were in the first person, so I feel we have to take them to be expressions of his thoughts. I am sure, myself, that in his dedication to /The Rape of Lucrece /he thought Henry was a good man and was sincerely grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he had of Henry's "honorable disposition." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 25 10:27:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <790054.79705.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Many people are rather transparent. you may hear someone say I don't care what anyone thinks, but if such a statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words No one knows what anyone thinks. ?? ? "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >Bob: where? >> In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first person. ?Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. ?If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. ?For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale told by an idiot. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Mar 25 10:47:51 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:47:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8C7B96.6010305@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> <4D8BBF81.7010903@nut-n-but.net> <4D8C7B96.6010305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: My point, Bob, is that there are different kinds of writing that are supposed to represent one's "true" thoughts-- dedications with an aim toward procuring funding seem rather far down on the scale of reliability... so far that even to characterize them as representing what an author really thinks seems wrong. c On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing > a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful > way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed > to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > feelings... > > c > > As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible to know for > sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris.? But the > original question had to do with writing that indicated what a writer > thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in the first-person > should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing his thoughts.? The > dedications were in the first person, so I feel we have to take them to be > expressions of his thoughts.? I am sure, myself, that in his dedication to > The Rape of Lucrece he thought Henry was a good man and was sincerely > grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he had of Henry's "honorable > disposition." > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From halvard at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:51:54 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:51:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <790054.79705.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <790054.79705.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I only had six words. If I'd had two more, I'd've said, "No one knows for sure what anybody thinks." "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:27 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Many people are rather transparent. > > you may hear someone say *I don't care what anyone thinks, *but if such a > statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > No one knows what anyone thinks. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >>> Bob: where? >>> >> >> In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the first >> person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what he >> was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can ever tell what >> any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never >> thought life was a tale told by an idiot. >> >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Mar 25 14:33:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:33:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net><7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org><4D8BBF81 .7010903@nut-n-but.net><4D8C7B96.6010305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8CE008.1090601@nut-n-but.net> On 3/25/2011 9:47 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > My point, Bob, is that there are different kinds of writing that are > supposed to represent one's "true" thoughts-- dedications with an aim > toward procuring funding seem rather far down on the scale of > reliability... so far that even to characterize them as representing > what an author really thinks seems wrong. > > c I think we're both arguing now for the sake of arguing. In fact, I know I am. But it's a vice I have trouble avoiding. So I will ask you now to tell me why we should not accept Shakespeare's second dedication as telling us what he thought when he referred to "the warranty" he had of Southampton's :honorable disposition?" How could he not have been thinking with pleasure of what he had already received from Southampon, probably money, and hoping for more? And, sure, diaries, I suppose, are most likely to represent a person's thinking--then letters, then essays. Poems are difficult to analyze, but if we call thinking more or less internal words, then first-person poems can probably be taken as more likely to express a poet's thought than other poems (and dedications), although it's still iffy, as are plays for a different reason, and novels not in first-person. Novels in first-person, I think, more likely than poems in the first-person, to indicate a writer's thought, but not necessarily. Again, though, the point is whether we can know what a writer was thinking from what he wrote, and sometimes it's clear that we can, whatever kind of text it is that's involved. As here, I claim. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 25 13:56:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:56:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry Message-ID: <8CDB92D1F20E8B1-1CC8-1917A@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> The FSG Book of Twentieth-Century Latin American Poetry Edited by Ilan Stavans. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, $50 (768p) ISBN 978-0-374-10024-7 This ambitious anthology from critic and translator Stavans (Dictionary Days) attempts to introduce North American readers to the great strengths and the variety of Latin American modernity in verse. Beginning with the Cuban poet and patriot Jose Mart? (1853?1895), Stavans's selection runs from the lushly formal nationalisms of a century ago (the Peruvian Jos? Santos Chocano: "I sing American, in its wild and autochthonous state... When I feel Incan, I honor that king,/ the Sun"), through the world-renowned intellect of Jorge Luis Borges, the expansive passions of Pablo Neruda, and the tender bleakness of the great Brazilian Carlos Drummond de Andrade, to a wealth of less famous, more recent poets. The volcanic odes of the Mexican Gloria Gevirtz ("The cages enclosing the perfumes, the limitless delights/ the voluptuousness of being born again and again") continue Neruda's visionary tradition, while the compressed bite of the Guatemalan Mayaquiche Humberto Ak'abal brings in another. While Stavans translates many poems himself, many more are reprinted from extant versions by famous names: Mark Strand, Elizabeth Bishop, Eliot Weinberger, Ursula K. Le Guin. Presented in facing-page format, Stavans's anthology inclines to the accessible; specialists may be frustrated by a few points, but Stavans aims, instead, to bring a whole tree of poems and traditions to U.S. readers who do not know it well. (Apr.) http://us.macmillan.com/thefsgbookoftwentiethcenturylatinamericanpoetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer at uark.edu Fri Mar 25 13:05:09 2011 From: mheffer at uark.edu (Michael Heffernan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 12:05:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth will not matter. Garrison Keillor will read my poem ?Awake? on The Writer?s Almanac on NPR next Monday, March 28. I mean what I say. Michael Heffernan Suaviloquentia contra mundum. - Lucilius ----- Original Message ----- From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, March 25, 2011 11:00 am Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 41 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 2. from Jeff Harrison (Anny Ballardini) > 3. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Robin Hamilton) > 4. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Mike Snider) > 5. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 6. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 7. Re: [6 Goddamn words (junction at earthlink.net) > 8. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 9. Re: [6 Goddamn words (junction at earthlink.net) > 10. Re: [6 Goddamn words (James Cervantes) > 11. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 12. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 13. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Mike Snider) > 14. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 15. The Corporate Conquest of America (Anny Ballardini) > 16. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 17. Re: [6 Goddamn words (stephen russell) > 18. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 19. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:01:35 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8B78EF.5000208 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way > that > > dedications to patrons were riddled with conventionality, it's a > > stretch to say they contain what "Shakespeare really thought". > Let > > alone whether what's contained in the dedications is worth > thinking in > > the first place. > > > > There might, if you're following this line, be a case that the > Sonnets > > contain What Shakespeare Really Thought, more so, I'd feel, with > > whatever qualifications, than Astrophil and Stella containing > What > > Philip Sidney Really Thought. > > > > The problem, of course, is to what degree we "trust" the 'I' of > > confessional verse, or indeed any lyric poetry. I'd put the > Sonnets > > in a line stretching forward through Coleridge in "Dejection: A > > Letter" to Berryman and Lowell, and then on, with Berryman > perhaps > > even consciously using them as a model for Confessional Verse > through > > Berryman's Sonnets (Lise? Jane? Whoever ...). > > > > Robin > Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought > when > you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen > observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about > what > you thought. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:32:06 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] from Jeff Harrison > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Make Ready is my new e-book from Chalk Editions: > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/50136381/Jeff-Harrison-MAKE-READY > > > My other Chalk Editions e-book is GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE: > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/37672655/Jeff-Harrison-GRANDUNCLES-OF- > THE-CATTLETRADE > > > > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancingstar! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/b48993f1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:34:24 -0000 > From: "Robin Hamilton" > To: "NewPoetry List" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. > > Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? We're usually singing > off the same > hymn sheet when it comes to Shakespeare. > > I could go into more detail, as to why I think the New Criticism, > for all > its virtues, goes catastrophically wrong when it comes to a > certain class of > Renaissance English poetry, but for the moment, a quasi-platonic > observation -- like all poets, Archilochus was a compulsive liar, > but he was > a different *kind* of compulsive liar than Homer. > > Robin > > ___________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:01 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way that > SNIP > > Robin > > Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought when > you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen > observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about > whatyou thought. > > --Bob > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:45:58 -0400 > From: Mike Snider > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1 at mikesnider.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Mar 24, 2011, at 7:19, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> Bob: where? > > > > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one > can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. > If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. For > instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale > told by an idiot. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:58:12 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8BBE74.8010500 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 3:34 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. > > > > Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? > > I was just joking. Alas, I think you generally do mean what you say. > > See, I just can't restrain the wit. > > --Bob > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:02:41 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8BBF81.7010903 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > > Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement > is. > But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic > writing does it. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:33:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root at wamui- > haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Grumman > >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic > >writing does it. > > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:00:55 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I thought you'd like him, Mark. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > > > Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > > Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: Bob Grumman > > >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > > >To: NewPoetry List > > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > > > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > > >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > > >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > > >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > > >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > > >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > > >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic> >writing does it. > > > > > >--Bob > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/015ee088/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:13:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > <2057724.1301004829556.JavaMail.root at wamui- > haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/07b5cfe3/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:47 -0700 > From: James Cervantes > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox is > "Halvard,junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop > before Hogwarts. > > - Jim > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > > I thought you'd like him, Mark. > > > > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > > --David Antin > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > *Mainly > Black> , **Obras P?blicas > > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > > ;* > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > > ; **Tango > Bouquet> ; **Theory of Harmony > > ; * > > ***Rapsodie > espagnole> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > ; **The Sonnet > Project> ; * > > ***G(e)nome ; > **Winter> Journey ; > **Eclipse> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > > ;* > > *Transparencies & > Projections> * > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > > > >> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > >> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> >From: Bob Grumman > >> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >> >To: NewPoetry List > >> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > >> > > >> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > >> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic>> >writing does it. > >> > > >> >--Bob > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >New-Poetry mailing list > >> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/ac0f3487/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:57:22 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On your way to wherever, Halvard Junction is a four-way stop. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM, James Cervantes > wrote: > > > Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox > is "Halvard, > > junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop before > Hogwarts.> > > - Jim > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote:> > >> I thought you'd like him, Mark. > >> > >> > >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > >> --David Antin > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> > >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >> > >> *Mainly > Black>> , **Obras P?blicas > >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > >> ;* > >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > >> ; **Tango > Bouquet>> ; **Theory of Harmony > >> ; * > >> ***Rapsodie > espagnole>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > >> ; **The Sonnet > Project>> ; * > >> ***G(e)nome > ; **Winter > >> Journey ; > **Eclipse>> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > >> ;* > >> *Transparencies & > Projections>> * > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > >> > >>> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > >>> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> >From: Bob Grumman > >>> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >>> >To: NewPoetry List > >>> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > >>> > > >>> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >>> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? > Nor think he > >>> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >>> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >>> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >>> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >>> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >>> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic>>> >writing does it. > >>> > > >>> >--Bob > >>> >_______________________________________________ > >>> >New-Poetry mailing list > >>> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/88dda546/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:58:04 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing > a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful > way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed > to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > feelings... > > c > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > > > So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > > might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > > fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > > any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere > > thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I think > anything> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or > does nothing but > > automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:08:07 -0400 > From: Mike Snider > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott > wrote:> Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of > any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > >> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>> > >>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >> > >> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > >> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > >> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > >> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere > >> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I > think anything > >> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does > nothing but > >> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > >> > >> --Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:13:09 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > True enough. It just so happens I recently read two books about > Shakespeare that are a great combination. Greenblatt's _Will in the > World_, which is a thick volume of well-informed speculation on > Shakespeare... but unlike many books he goes to some length to make > clear that he is speculating and how/why. Then Bill Bryson's > _Shakespeare: World as Stage_, which is pretty much the exact > opposite: Bryson set out to document what we really do know about > Shakespeare (not much!) and delves into the source of some of the > stories taken too often for truth. And, of course, he does it in an > elegant, funny, readable manner (one of the reasons I love Bryson), > while remaining incisive, including a delicious takedown of the > "Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare" crowd, which sadly includes too many > people I know and who should know better. > > c > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Mike Snider > wrote: > > Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott > wrote: > >> Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > >> between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing>> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > >> Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > >> the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful>> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > >> right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > >> his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed>> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > >> > >> I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > >> bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > >> feelings... > >> > >> c > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > >>> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >>> > >>> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > >>> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > >>> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > >>> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing > sincere>>> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. > ?But I think anything > >>> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does > nothing but > >>> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > >>> > >>> --Bob > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:32:13 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] The Corporate Conquest of America > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > http://www.truth-out.org/unequal-protections-from-birth-american- > democracy-through-birth-corporate-personhood68647 > > > Women Ask, 'Can I Be a ?Person,? Too?? > > Interestingly, during the era of the Santa Clara decision granting > corporations the full protections of persons under the > Constitution, two > other groups also brought cases to the Supreme Court, asking for > similarprotections. The first group was women. This was a movement > with a > fascinating history, its roots in the American Revolution itself. > > In March 1776 thirty-two-year-old Abigail Adams sat at her writing > table in > her home in Braintree, Massachusetts, a small town a few hours? > ride south > of Boston. The war between the American colonists and their > opponents-the > governors and the soldiers of the East India Company and its British > protectors-had been going on for about a year. A small group of the > colonists gathered in Philadelphia to edit Thomas Jefferson?s > Declaration of > Independence for the new nation they were certain was about to be > born, and > Abigail?s husband, John Adams, was among the men editing that > document. > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancingstar! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/49a3f598/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:25:10 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8C7B96.6010305 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible to > know > for sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris. > But > the original question had to do with writing that indicated what a > writer thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in > the > first-person should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing > his > thoughts. The dedications were in the first person, so I feel we > have > to take them to be expressions of his thoughts. I am sure, > myself, that > in his dedication to /The Rape of Lucrece /he thought Henry was a > good > man and was sincerely grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he > had of > Henry's "honorable disposition." > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/6af108fb/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <790054.79705.qm at web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Many people are rather transparent. > > you may hear someone say I don't care what anyone thinks, but if > such a > statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > No one knows what anyone thinks. > > ?? ? > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > > Hal > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye > and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of > Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet > Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > >Bob: where? > >> > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first person. > ?Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what > he was > thinking from what his characters do or say. ?If one can ever tell > what any > person is really thinking. ?For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare > never thought > life was a tale told by an idiot. > > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/96f6949c/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:47:51 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > My point, Bob, is that there are different kinds of writing that are > supposed to represent one's "true" thoughts-- dedications with an aim > toward procuring funding seem rather far down on the scale of > reliability... so far that even to characterize them as representing > what an author really thinks seems wrong. > > c > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > > > > As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible > to know for > > sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris.? > But the > > original question had to do with writing that indicated what a > writer> thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in > the first-person > > should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing his > thoughts.? The > > dedications were in the first person, so I feel we have to take > them to be > > expressions of his thoughts.? I am sure, myself, that in his > dedication to > > The Rape of Lucrece he thought Henry was a good man and was > sincerely> grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he had of > Henry's "honorable > > disposition." > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:51:54 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I only had six words. If I'd had two more, I'd've > said, "No one knows for sure what anybody thinks." > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:27 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Many people are rather transparent. > > > > you may hear someone say *I don't care what anyone thinks, *but > if such a > > statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Halvard Johnson > > *To:* NewPoetry List > > *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > > No one knows what anyone thinks. > > > > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > > --David Antin > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > *Mainly > Black> , **Obras P?blicas > > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > > ;* > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > > ; **Tango > Bouquet> ; **Theory of Harmony > > ; * > > ***Rapsodie > espagnole> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > ; **The Sonnet > Project> ; * > > ***G(e)nome ; > **Winter> Journey ; > **Eclipse> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > > ;* > > *Transparencies & > Projections> * > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman but.net>wrote:> > >> On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> > >>> Bob: where? > >>> > >> > >> In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first>> person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times > one can tell what he > >> was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can > ever tell what > >> any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that > Shakespeare never > >> thought life was a tale told by an idiot. > >> > >> > >> --Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/89718f16/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 41 > ***************************************** > From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Mar 25 14:20:42 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:20:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the obviously untrue. On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth > will not matter. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Mar 25 14:24:39 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDB931096BA136-1244-172FD@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> Congratulations, Michael. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Heffernan To: new-poetry Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 2:05 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth will not matter. Garrison Keillor will read my poem ?Awake? on The Writer?s Almanac on NPR next Monday, March 28. I mean what I say. Michael Heffernan Suaviloquentia contra mundum. - Lucilius ----- Original Message ----- From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, March 25, 2011 11:00 am Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 41 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 2. from Jeff Harrison (Anny Ballardini) > 3. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Robin Hamilton) > 4. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Mike Snider) > 5. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 6. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 7. Re: [6 Goddamn words (junction at earthlink.net) > 8. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 9. Re: [6 Goddamn words (junction at earthlink.net) > 10. Re: [6 Goddamn words (James Cervantes) > 11. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > 12. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 13. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Mike Snider) > 14. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 15. The Corporate Conquest of America (Anny Ballardini) > 16. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Bob Grumman) > 17. Re: [6 Goddamn words (stephen russell) > 18. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Chris Lott) > 19. Re: [6 Goddamn words (Halvard Johnson) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:01:35 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8B78EF.5000208 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way > that > > dedications to patrons were riddled with conventionality, it's a > > stretch to say they contain what "Shakespeare really thought". > Let > > alone whether what's contained in the dedications is worth > thinking in > > the first place. > > > > There might, if you're following this line, be a case that the > Sonnets > > contain What Shakespeare Really Thought, more so, I'd feel, with > > whatever qualifications, than Astrophil and Stella containing > What > > Philip Sidney Really Thought. > > > > The problem, of course, is to what degree we "trust" the 'I' of > > confessional verse, or indeed any lyric poetry. I'd put the > Sonnets > > in a line stretching forward through Coleridge in "Dejection: A > > Letter" to Berryman and Lowell, and then on, with Berryman > perhaps > > even consciously using them as a model for Confessional Verse > through > > Berryman's Sonnets (Lise? Jane? Whoever ...). > > > > Robin > Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought > when > you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen > observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about > what > you thought. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:32:06 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] from Jeff Harrison > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Make Ready is my new e-book from Chalk Editions: > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/50136381/Jeff-Harrison-MAKE-READY > > > My other Chalk Editions e-book is GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE: > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/37672655/Jeff-Harrison-GRANDUNCLES-OF- > THE-CATTLETRADE > > > > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancingstar! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/b48993f1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:34:24 -0000 > From: "Robin Hamilton" > To: "NewPoetry List" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. > > Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? We're usually singing > off the same > hymn sheet when it comes to Shakespeare. > > I could go into more detail, as to why I think the New Criticism, > for all > its virtues, goes catastrophically wrong when it comes to a > certain class of > Renaissance English poetry, but for the moment, a quasi-platonic > observation -- like all poets, Archilochus was a compulsive liar, > but he was > a different *kind* of compulsive liar than Homer. > > Robin > > ___________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:01 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > On 3/24/2011 6:05 AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > > Point Bob -- those hadn't occurred to me. But given the way that > SNIP > > Robin > > Right everywhere, Robin, but I doubt it's what you really thought when > you wrote it. On the other hand, it doesn't have to be for a keen > observer like me to know hat you thought when you were lying about > whatyou thought. > > --Bob > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:45:58 -0400 > From: Mike Snider > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1 at mikesnider.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > www.mikesnider.org > > On Mar 24, 2011, at 7:19, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> Bob: where? > > > > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times one > can tell what he was thinking from what his characters do or say. > If one can ever tell what any person is really thinking. For > instance, I doubt that Shakespeare never thought life was a tale > told by an idiot. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:58:12 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8BBE74.8010500 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 3:34 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > Well, I certainly thunk I thot it Bob, no lie. > > > > Why so sceptical that I mean what I say? > > I was just joking. Alas, I think you generally do mean what you say. > > See, I just can't restrain the wit. > > --Bob > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:02:41 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8BBF81.7010903 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > > Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person statement > is. > But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic > writing does it. > > --Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:33:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > <17486465.1301002436375.JavaMail.root at wamui- > haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Grumman > >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic > >writing does it. > > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:00:55 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I thought you'd like him, Mark. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > > > Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > > Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: Bob Grumman > > >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > > >To: NewPoetry List > > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > > > >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > > >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > > >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > > >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > > >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > > >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > > >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic> >writing does it. > > > > > >--Bob > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/015ee088/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:13:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > <2057724.1301004829556.JavaMail.root at wamui- > haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/07b5cfe3/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:47 -0700 > From: James Cervantes > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox is > "Halvard,junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop > before Hogwarts. > > - Jim > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > > I thought you'd like him, Mark. > > > > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > > --David Antin > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > *Mainly > Black> , **Obras P?blicas > > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > > ;* > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > > ; **Tango > Bouquet> ; **Theory of Harmony > > ; * > > ***Rapsodie > espagnole> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > ; **The Sonnet > Project> ; * > > ***G(e)nome ; > **Winter> Journey ; > **Eclipse> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > > ;* > > *Transparencies & > Projections> * > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > > > >> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > >> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> >From: Bob Grumman > >> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >> >To: NewPoetry List > >> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > >> > > >> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? Nor > think he > >> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic>> >writing does it. > >> > > >> >--Bob > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >New-Poetry mailing list > >> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/ac0f3487/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:57:22 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On your way to wherever, Halvard Junction is a four-way stop. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM, James Cervantes > wrote: > > > Whenever there's a Hal & Mark exchange, the notice in my inbox > is "Halvard, > > junction." "Halvard Junction" could be the last stop before > Hogwarts.> > > - Jim > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Halvard Johnson > wrote:> > >> I thought you'd like him, Mark. > >> > >> > >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > >> --David Antin > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> > >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > >> > >> *Mainly > Black>> , **Obras P?blicas > >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > >> ;* > >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > >> ; **Tango > Bouquet>> ; **Theory of Harmony > >> ; * > >> ***Rapsodie > espagnole>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > >> ; **The Sonnet > Project>> ; * > >> ***G(e)nome > ; **Winter > >> Journey ; > **Eclipse>> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > >> ;* > >> *Transparencies & > Projections>> * > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote: > >> > >>> Every thought contains its opposite, and then some. Me, I > genuinely like > >>> Bill Gates, tho he never answers my letters. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> >From: Bob Grumman > >>> >Sent: Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM > >>> >To: NewPoetry List > >>> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > >>> > > >>> >On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>> >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >>> >So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? > Nor think he > >>> >might be able to get anything material out of him. Nor was > grateful to > >>> >him fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > >>> >dedication? In any case, I think dedications are formal ways of > >>> >expressing sincere thoughts. As much as an first-person > statement is. > >>> >But I think anything one writes expresses in some manner what one > >>> >thinks. Or does nothing but automatic writing do that? If > automatic>>> >writing does it. > >>> > > >>> >--Bob > >>> >_______________________________________________ > >>> >New-Poetry mailing list > >>> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110324/88dda546/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:58:04 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that writing > a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily possible that > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any meaningful > way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you may well be > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing outside of > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be assumed > to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > feelings... > > c > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >> > >> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > > > > So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > > might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > > fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > > any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere > > thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I think > anything> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or > does nothing but > > automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:08:07 -0400 > From: Mike Snider > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott > wrote:> Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of > any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > >> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>> > >>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >> > >> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > >> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > >> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > >> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing sincere > >> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. ?But I > think anything > >> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does > nothing but > >> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > >> > >> --Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:13:09 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > True enough. It just so happens I recently read two books about > Shakespeare that are a great combination. Greenblatt's _Will in the > World_, which is a thick volume of well-informed speculation on > Shakespeare... but unlike many books he goes to some length to make > clear that he is speculating and how/why. Then Bill Bryson's > _Shakespeare: World as Stage_, which is pretty much the exact > opposite: Bryson set out to document what we really do know about > Shakespeare (not much!) and delves into the source of some of the > stories taken too often for truth. And, of course, he does it in an > elegant, funny, readable manner (one of the reasons I love Bryson), > while remaining incisive, including a delicious takedown of the > "Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare" crowd, which sadly includes too many > people I know and who should know better. > > c > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Mike Snider > wrote: > > Except, of course, that he wanted money. But that's hardly news, eh? > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Chris Lott > wrote: > >> Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > >> between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing>> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > >> Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > >> the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful>> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > >> right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > >> his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed>> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > >> > >> I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > >> bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > >> feelings... > >> > >> c > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > >>> On 3/24/2011 3:45 PM, Mike Snider wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dedications are formulaic exercises, not thoughts. > >>> > >>> So Will didn't necessarily think Henry was a swell fella? ?Nor > think he > >>> might be able to get anything material out of him. ?Nor was > grateful to him > >>> fo what he apparently got from him when he wrote the second > dedication? ?In > >>> any case, I think dedications are formal ways of expressing > sincere>>> thoughts. ?As much as an first-person statement is. > ?But I think anything > >>> one writes expresses in some manner what one thinks. ?Or does > nothing but > >>> automatic writing do that? ?If automatic writing does it. > >>> > >>> --Bob > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:32:13 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] The Corporate Conquest of America > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > http://www.truth-out.org/unequal-protections-from-birth-american- > democracy-through-birth-corporate-personhood68647 > > > Women Ask, 'Can I Be a ?Person,? Too?? > > Interestingly, during the era of the Santa Clara decision granting > corporations the full protections of persons under the > Constitution, two > other groups also brought cases to the Supreme Court, asking for > similarprotections. The first group was women. This was a movement > with a > fascinating history, its roots in the American Revolution itself. > > In March 1776 thirty-two-year-old Abigail Adams sat at her writing > table in > her home in Braintree, Massachusetts, a small town a few hours? > ride south > of Boston. The war between the American colonists and their > opponents-the > governors and the soldiers of the East India Company and its British > protectors-had been going on for about a year. A small group of the > colonists gathered in Philadelphia to edit Thomas Jefferson?s > Declaration of > Independence for the new nation they were certain was about to be > born, and > Abigail?s husband, John Adams, was among the men editing that > document. > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancingstar! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/49a3f598/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:25:10 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <4D8C7B96.6010305 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible to > know > for sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris. > But > the original question had to do with writing that indicated what a > writer thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in > the > first-person should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing > his > thoughts. The dedications were in the first person, so I feel we > have > to take them to be expressions of his thoughts. I am sure, > myself, that > in his dedication to /The Rape of Lucrece /he thought Henry was a > good > man and was sincerely grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he > had of > Henry's "honorable disposition." > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/6af108fb/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: <790054.79705.qm at web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Many people are rather transparent. > > you may hear someone say I don't care what anyone thinks, but if > such a > statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > No one knows what anyone thinks. > > ?? ? > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Antin > > Hal > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye > and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of > Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet > Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > >Bob: where? > >> > In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first person. > ?Aside from that, though, I think that at times one can tell what > he was > thinking from what his characters do or say. ?If one can ever tell > what any > person is really thinking. ?For instance, I doubt that Shakespeare > never thought > life was a tale told by an idiot. > > > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/96f6949c/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:47:51 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > My point, Bob, is that there are different kinds of writing that are > supposed to represent one's "true" thoughts-- dedications with an aim > toward procuring funding seem rather far down on the scale of > reliability... so far that even to characterize them as representing > what an author really thinks seems wrong. > > c > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Bob Grumman but.net> wrote: > > On 3/24/2011 8:58 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > > Given that there is no other evidence of a relationship of any kind > > between Will and Henry beyond the dedications, and given that > writing> a dedication in order to get a reward makes it easily > possible that > > Shakespeare believed nothing he said, I don't see how you can posit > > the dedications as indicative of "what Will thought" in any > meaningful> way. It's tantalizing to consider, of course, and you > may well be > > right, but the fact remains that Shakespeare left nothing > outside of > > his plays and poetry behind (so far discovered) that could be > assumed> to represent his thinking with any amount of confidence. > > > > I, at least, don't count on a dedication in which a playwright is > > bidding for patronage to necessarily represent anything of his true > > feelings... > > > > c > > > > As I've been opining in several posts, I think it's impossible > to know for > > sure what anyone was thinking when he wrote something, Chris.? > But the > > original question had to do with writing that indicated what a > writer> thought, with--I believe--the implication that writing in > the first-person > > should be taken to indicate the writer was expressing his > thoughts.? The > > dedications were in the first person, so I feel we have to take > them to be > > expressions of his thoughts.? I am sure, myself, that in his > dedication to > > The Rape of Lucrece he thought Henry was a good man and was > sincerely> grateful to him for whatever "warrant" he had of > Henry's "honorable > > disposition." > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:51:54 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I only had six words. If I'd had two more, I'd've > said, "No one knows for sure what anybody thinks." > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black, **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > ; **Tango > Bouquet; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3> > ; **The Sonnet > Project; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **WinterJourney ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:27 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Many people are rather transparent. > > > > you may hear someone say *I don't care what anyone thinks, *but > if such a > > statement were true, it wouldn't need to be said. > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Halvard Johnson > > *To:* NewPoetry List > > *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 10:32:26 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words > > > > No one knows what anyone thinks. > > > > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > > --David Antin > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > *Mainly > Black> , **Obras P?blicas > > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets> > > ;* > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1> > > ; **Tango > Bouquet> ; **Theory of Harmony > > ; * > > ***Rapsodie > espagnole> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > ; **The Sonnet > Project> ; * > > ***G(e)nome ; > **Winter> Journey ; > **Eclipse> ; **The > Dance of the Red Swan > > ;* > > *Transparencies & > Projections> * > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Bob Grumman but.net>wrote:> > >> On 3/23/2011 8:32 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> > >>> Bob: where? > >>> > >> > >> In the dedications to his two narrative poems he speaks in the > first>> person. Aside from that, though, I think that at times > one can tell what he > >> was thinking from what his characters do or say. If one can > ever tell what > >> any person is really thinking. For instance, I doubt that > Shakespeare never > >> thought life was a tale told by an idiot. > >> > >> > >> --Bob > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: poetry/attachments/20110325/89718f16/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 8, Issue 41 > ***************************************** > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Mar 25 14:27:58 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (chris at chrislott.org) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:27:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] [6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8CE008.1090601@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8B28A7.8020408@nut-n-but.net> <7BBE97F0-A36F-4AEC-9E42-704CE7787AF1@mikesnider.org> <4D8BBF81 .7010903@nut-n-but.net> <4D8C7B96.6010305@nut-n-but.net> <4D8CE008.1090601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2694122B-16C7-4E26-A39C-68FB7E42277D@chrislott.org> I think you are misinterpreting the phrase... And your claim extremely weak as a result. But I'll just let it go, as I have no interest in arguing. If you think the dedications represent what Shakespeare really thought in a meaningful way, well... Bully for you. At least you aren't one of the nutter Oxfordians or the like... c On Mar 25, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 3/25/2011 9:47 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> My point, Bob, is that there are different kinds of writing that are >> supposed to represent one's "true" thoughts-- dedications with an aim >> toward procuring funding seem rather far down on the scale of >> reliability... so far that even to characterize them as representing >> what an author really thinks seems wrong. >> >> c > I think we're both arguing now for the sake of arguing. In fact, I know I am. But it's a vice I have trouble avoiding. So I will ask you now to tell me why we should not accept Shakespeare's second dedication as telling us what he thought when he referred to "the warranty" he had of Southampton's :honorable disposition?" How could he not have been thinking with pleasure of what he had already received from Southampon, probably money, and hoping for more? > > And, sure, diaries, I suppose, are most likely to represent a person's thinking--then letters, then essays. Poems are difficult to analyze, but if we call thinking more or less internal words, then first-person poems can probably be taken as more likely to express a poet's thought than other poems (and dedications), although it's still iffy, as are plays for a different reason, and novels not in first-person. Novels in first-person, I think, more likely than poems in the first-person, to indicate a writer's thought, but not necessarily. > > Again, though, the point is whether we can know what a writer was thinking from what he wrote, and sometimes it's clear that we can, whatever kind of text it is that's involved. As here, I claim. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Mar 25 15:04:33 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 12:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <114257.48246.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In what sense is it untrue? In a journalistic who/what/where/ when?sense? A logical sense? Laura Riding turned away from poetry because of its lack of ( truth ). Mencken is clever, very quotable, but often glib. When one writes The moon is almost as old as my father and extends the methaphor, what sort of truth are we dealing with? ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Fri, March 25, 2011 2:20:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the obviously untrue. On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth > will not matter. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 25 15:10:40 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:10:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> I like the way James Dickey put it, pararphrasing: The poet's job is not to tell the truth, but to make it. (in essay "Metaphor as Pure Adventure"). Putting aside philosophical debates about what is truth and what is reality, it seems poets do fall out on continuum between the two poles of utter truth teeling and pure fancy. Some poets are much more concerned with memorializing events and their experiences. Some are much more in favor of imaginative rendering with as little regard to actual events/experience as possible (or as little as they can get away with). Since the latter group have held sway in recent times (particularly those who identify themselves as postmodernists), then,as they say in the stock market, we're due for a correction. For most poets, of course, it's about creating that active dynamic between truth (reality) and lie (imagination). Wallace Stevens' has mu Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 2:20 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the bviously untrue. n 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth will not matter. -- =================================================== avid Graham rahamd at ripon.edu ome Page: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html =================================================== _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 25 15:20:22 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:20:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDB938D24BD1D6-1CC8-1B262@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> oops. My last sentence go cut off: Wallace Stevens has much to say about this dynamic/dialetic in his poems and Adagia. Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 3:10 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies I like the way James Dickey put it, pararphrasing: The poet's job is not to tell the truth, but to make it. (in essay "Metaphor as Pure Adventure"). Putting aside philosophical debates about what is truth and what is reality, it seems poets do fall out on continuum between the two poles of utter truth teeling and pure fancy. Some poets are much more concerned with memorializing events and their experiences. Some are much more in favor of imaginative rendering with as little regard to actual events/experience as possible (or as little as they can get away with). Since the latter group have held sway in recent times (particularly those who identify themselves as postmodernists), then,as they say in the stock market, we're due for a correction. For most poets, of course, it's about creating that active dynamic between truth (reality) and lie (imagination). Wallace Stevens' has mu Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 2:20 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the bviously untrue. n 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth will not matter. -- =================================================== avid Graham rahamd at ripon.edu ome Page: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: ttp://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html =================================================== _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Mar 25 15:41:14 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:41:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others Message-ID: Russian Formalist Victor Shklovsky, quoted by David Lodge: Habitualization devours works, clothes, furniture, one's wife, and the fear of war ... And art exists that one may recover the sensation of life: it exists to make one feel things, to make the stony *stony*. The purpose of art is to impart the sensation of things as they are perceived and not as they are known. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Mar 25 15:49:24 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:49:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30006677-2DD4-4C7B-9615-DEF8514482F1@ripon.edu> One of my favorite passages in all critical literature. Why? Because it's true. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 25, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Russian Formalist Victor Shklovsky, quoted by David Lodge: > > Habitualization devours works, clothes, furniture, one's wife, and the fear of war ... And art exists that one may recover the sensation of life: it exists to make one feel things, to make the stony stony. The purpose of art is to impart the sensation of things as they are perceived and not as they are known. > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 25 16:26:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:26:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others In-Reply-To: <30006677-2DD4-4C7B-9615-DEF8514482F1@ripon.edu> References: <30006677-2DD4-4C7B-9615-DEF8514482F1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDB9420435C417-1CC8-1CAE7@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> On my quotes blog, I have a continuation of that quote... http://conjecturesatrandom.blogspot.com/2010/06/defamiliarization-or-ostranenie.html where the concept of estrangement/defamiliarization (ostrananie) is laid out... >From a philosophical/psychological perspective the distinction between 'perceived and known' is slippery. I know nyet Russian, and can't speak of the translation, but I've tried unsuccessfully to think that the perceived was not all we have of the known. It could be that VS is going for the Kantian notion of phenemena and nuomena (thing-in-itself). But the latter is so little knowable, I just don't know what I think about the statement, as attractive as it may be. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 3:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others One of my favorite passages in all critical literature. Why? Because it's true. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Mar 25, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Tad Richards wrote: Russian Formalist Victor Shklovsky, quoted by David Lodge: Habitualization devours works, clothes, furniture, one's wife, and the fear of war ... And art exists that one may recover the sensation of life: it exists to make one feel things, to make the stony stony. The purpose of art is to impart the sensation of things as they are perceived and not as they are known. _______________________________________________ = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Mar 25 16:33:57 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:33:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDB94319CDD1F5-1CC8-1CD68@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 3:41 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Criticism from others Russian Formalist Victor Shklovsky, quoted by David Lodge: Habitualization devours works, clothes, furniture, one's wife, and the fear of war ... And art exists that one may recover the sensation of life: it exists to make one feel things, to make the stony stony. The purpose of art is to impart the sensation of things as they are perceived and not as they are known. -- There were those that returned to hear him read from the poem of life, Of the pans above the stove, the pots on the table, the tulips among them. They were those that would have wept to step barefoot into reality, They would have wept and been happy, have shivered in the frost And cried out to feel it again, have run fingers over leaves And against the most coiled thorn, have seized on what was ugly >From ?Large Red Man Reading? by Wallace Stevens _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Mar 25 16:51:10 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:51:10 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies Message-ID: <12650345.1301086270866.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:56:08 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:56:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Identifying oneself--what an idea! "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:10 PM, wrote: > I like the way James Dickey put it, pararphrasing: The poet's job is not to > tell the truth, but to make it. (in essay "Metaphor as Pure Adventure"). > > Putting aside philosophical debates about what is truth and what > is reality, it seems poets do fall out on continuum between the two poles > of utter truth teeling and pure fancy. Some poets are much more concerned > with memorializing events and their experiences. Some are much more in favor > of imaginative rendering with as little regard to actual events/experience > as possible (or as little as they can get away with). Since the latter group > have held sway in recent times (particularly those who identify themselves > as postmodernists), then,as they say in the stock market, we're due for a > correction. > > For most poets, of course, it's about creating that active dynamic between > truth (reality) and lie (imagination). Wallace Stevens' has mu > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 2:20 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the > obviously untrue. > > > On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > > > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth > > will not matter. > > -- > > > ==================================================== > David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Mar 25 18:11:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:11:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D8D12F4.8040200@nut-n-but.net> The artist's job is not to tell the truth but to create beauty. Many artists and possibly most critics are too puritanical to accept that, so they babble about the superior truths that artists tell us. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Mar 25 18:37:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:37:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> One experiences the pleasure of poetry the moment one recognizes the truth it is a misrepresentation of. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Mar 25 18:43:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:43:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> > One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the > truth it is a misrepresentation of. > > --Bob From mintjlp at verizon.net Fri Mar 25 18:48:36 2011 From: mintjlp at verizon.net (Julia Crocker) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:48:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review:Polyamory for posting Message-ID: Review of my chapbook Polyamory now appearing at Indigo Rising: ? ? ? POLYAMORY: Selected Poems of Jack Peachum SOLSTICE ON THE ROANOKE The kudzu's rimed with frost, embattled autumn retreats, daylight hours have fled into early darkness-- the river's surface is troubled by rumors of winter. Oh, portent of foul weather-- even the fishermen have gone indoors! Permission of the author: pub. At Dew on the Kudzu It begins with the cover picture- a silhouette straight out of the 19th century. The title, literally, means "Many Loves"- and one can think the author might have chosen better. Indeed, several reviewers have already taken to heart the "racy"implications of the title- which has nothing to do with the material inside- though there are one or two poems that deal with sexual pathology. Another way of saying, the title is deceptive. As is the whole book- the poetry of Peachum is cloaked in clarity- that is to say, it is nearly always "accessible"- deceivingly so. Mr. Peachum, as his blurb says, is a Virginia writer, he's published on the internet and in a handful of print periodicals. Nothing earth-shaking- not in the "better magazines" ("I haven't time for that crap!")- anyway, his eclecticism and his unique style is not likely to win him any prizes or awards, nor make him widely read in the popular arena. Having said all this, one concludes that he is a "serious" poet- if a bit old fashioned. Indeed, it is hard to see how without the internet and the many venues it has provided, he could've been published at all- he has chosen not to be an academic (His other writings and criticism show his antipathy to the university role in the arts), not an avant-garde writer- he's chosen a middle ground. This is mostly a question of forging a style. There is experimentation here- but it is controlled, always shaped by a formalism of his own making. Ideas are subordinate to poetry- to rhythm and image. Perhaps for this reason, the ideas are pretty standard stuff- love lost, love regained, the parade of seasons that denote the year of the heart. Make no mistake, the ideas are there- but they are often well-hidden. And there are startling images: "I am very fond of conceits!," declares this poet. Addressing his absent Muse (Envoi): ... Won't you give me another chance, Muse? Won't you come to the door and knock, Hold up a handful of metaphors, Similes running between your fingers, .... There are a number of factors at work all at once- not the least of which is the Oriental influence, following Ezra Pound's dictum, "- not as deep as a well, a bucket will do." What this affords is a view into a personified, almost pantheistic world generated by the most basic animism. One of the most famous poems is Virginia In Spring: Damn those roses- they're gossiping again- vain old ladies in their red hats! .... Nature personified can be benevolent or threatening- seldom impartial. Grass hides a thousand sins, leaves whisper of love's heartbreak, winter is an unwanted transient carrying magic and malignancy (The Migrant): ... when he opens his suitcase in the dank hallway, darkness spills onto the floor, a few icy stars roll across the rug .... In Cottonwood Summer the tree is seen promising to creep in and grow out of the reader's heart. Many poems are very short, only 6 or 8 lines long, haiku-like, as in the Virginia poem quoted above-- or the opening poem in this review where the whole poem is used. This reviewer is frequently tempted to quote the whole, but would that bring us no closer to the meaning- if any- that lies beneath the surface? Or is it all surface? Besides the Oriental influence, another kind of poetry emerges in the volume- the Symbolist/ Romantic tradition: "The European mind with generations of tradition behind it." Many of the poems are written and delivered in a regular rhyming fashion, which is another way of hiding their meaning. The poem Our Pierrot in Autumn is barely open to the logic of the average reader, although its musicality is attractive: "Hip to all that jazz-," yet still, that organ heart expresses his dull pain. Don't worry, it will pass with night, and dawn and the chill of rain. .... Again, a carryover from the Romantic tradition are the dramatic monologues found in these pages- both Abraham Lincoln (in a letter to lover Joshua Speed) and Maj. Henry Wirz, Commandant of Andersonville, are given their moment to speak. The ability to personify is in good measure here and when Wirz is stopped in the middle of his prayer without warning- by hanging- it's a bit of a jolt to the reader. In fact, so often is the monologue device employed, its sometimes difficult to know whether the poet is speaking or someone else. Sentiment? A bit too much for this reader's taste. Love poems (Thespian): In life and laughter, Both in and out of school, I have seldom played the wise man, But I've often played the fool. .... Traditional, to say the least, but pleasant. What else could one expect from a Virginia poet? The poems begin and end with a plea to the Muse, and in-between is interspersed, under the surface, the seasonal pattern following from one part of the year to the next in which love, religion, and history grow and fail and reemerge- hardly an original device but oriental-style poetry and Symbolism lends itself easily to the mode. Peachum makes adequate use of it. JDonahue I can only hope I've done this right! jp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 19:48:12 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 17:48:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: <4D8D12F4.8040200@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D12F4.8040200@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The artist's job is to create works of art. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > The artist's job is not to tell the truth but to create beauty. Many > artists and possibly most critics are too puritanical to accept that, so > they babble about the superior truths that artists tell us. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 19:58:40 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:58:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D12F4.8040200@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: But what is ar . . . Never mind. - Jim On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The artist's job is to create works of art. > > > "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" > --David Antin > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> The artist's job is not to tell the truth but to create beauty. Many >> artists and possibly most critics are too puritanical to accept that, so >> they babble about the superior truths that artists tell us. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 08:15:09 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:15:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Smile! Message-ID: http://www.dailygood.org/more.php?n=4507 So now we know that: When you smile, you look good and feel good. When others see you smile, they smile too. When others smile, they look good and feel good, too. Perhaps this is why Mother Teresa said: 'I will never understand all the good that a simple smile can accomplish.? What?s the catch? Only that the smile you give has to be big, and genuine! -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Mar 26 10:23:43 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:23:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: This is not the dumbest thing that Bob has ever said. And yes, that's a grudging compliment. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the truth >> it is a misrepresentation of. >> >> --Bob >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 10:28:32 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:28:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <114257.48246.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <114257.48246.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: With mine, I like the metaphor. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:04 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > In what sense is it untrue? In a journalistic who/what/where/ when sense? A > logical sense? Laura Riding turned away from poetry because of its lack of ( > truth ). Mencken is clever, very quotable, but often glib. > > When one writes *The moon is almost as old as my father* > and extends the methaphor, what sort of truth are we dealing with? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry > *Sent:* Fri, March 25, 2011 2:20:42 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the > obviously untrue. > > > On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > > > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the > truth > > will not matter. > > -- > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:03:41 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:03:41 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <8CDB931096BA136-1244-172FD@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB931096BA136-1244-172FD@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yes, congratulations, and a great quote by Lucilius On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:24 PM, wrote: > Congratulations, Michael. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Heffernan > To: new-poetry > Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 2:05 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth > > > will not matter. > > > > > Garrison Keillor will read my poem ?Awake? on The Writer?s Almanac on NPR next > > > Monday, March 28. > > > > > I mean what I say. > > > > > Michael Heffernan > > > > > Suaviloquentia contra mundum. - Lucilius > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Mar 26 11:07:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <114257.48246.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248375.15079.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I wish it were my metaphor. I haven't memorized the poem, or I'd type it out. The metaphor is from David Posner's Portrait of My Father. At least, I'm almost certain that's the poem's title. Sadly, my memory is not what it once was -- if I remember correctly... ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, March 26, 2011 10:28:32 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words With mine, I like the metaphor. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:04 PM, stephen russell wrote: In what sense is it untrue? In a journalistic who/what/where/ when sense? A logical sense? Laura Riding turned away from poetry because of its lack of ( truth ). Mencken is clever, very quotable, but often glib. > >When one writes The moon is almost as old as my father >and extends the methaphor, what sort of truth are we dealing with? > > > ________________________________ From: David Graham >To: NewPoetry >Sent: Fri, March 25, 2011 2:20:42 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > >Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the >obviously untrue. > > >On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: > >> All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the truth >> will not matter. > >-- > > >==================================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >==================================================== > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:34:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:34:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <248375.15079.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <114257.48246.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <248375.15079.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That is fine, don't worry, the metaphor you quoted is good and came through as such, while giving the idea of what you wanted to say, I have tried to support it in the way that I know. On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 4:07 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I wish it were my metaphor. I haven't memorized the poem, or I'd type it > out. The metaphor is from David Posner's Portrait of My Father. At least, > I'm almost certain that's the poem's title. Sadly, my memory is not what it > once was -- if I remember correctly... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, March 26, 2011 10:28:32 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words > > With mine, I like the metaphor. > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:04 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> In what sense is it untrue? In a journalistic who/what/where/ when sense? >> A logical sense? Laura Riding turned away from poetry because of its lack of >> ( truth ). Mencken is clever, very quotable, but often glib. >> >> When one writes *The moon is almost as old as my father* >> and extends the methaphor, what sort of truth are we dealing with? >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* David Graham >> *To:* NewPoetry >> *Sent:* Fri, March 25, 2011 2:20:42 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words >> >> Mencken says somewhere that poetry is the mellifluous statement of the >> obviously untrue. >> >> >> On 3/25/11 12:05 PM, "Michael Heffernan" wrote: >> >> > All poetry is compulsive, gorgeous lying. That is why we have it, so the >> truth >> > will not matter. >> >> -- >> >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/ >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 26 14:46:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:46:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> On 3/26/2011 9:23 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > This is not the dumbest thing that Bob has ever said. And yes, that's > a grudging compliment. Thanks, Tad. I liked it enough to quote it at my blog. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 15:12:15 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 20:12:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D12F4.8040200@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: But what is wor But what is But wha But w But B On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 12:58 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > But what is ar . . . Never mind. > > - Jim > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> The artist's job is to create works of art. >> >> >> "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" >> --David Antin >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> The artist's job is not to tell the truth but to create beauty. Many >>> artists and possibly most critics are too puritanical to accept that, so >>> they babble about the superior truths that artists tell us. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 15:12:50 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 20:12:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I agree with Tad. On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > This is not the dumbest thing that Bob has ever said. And yes, that's a > grudging compliment. > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the >>> truth it is a misrepresentation of. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Mar 26 16:24:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:24:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8E4B66.9010707@nut-n-but.net> On 3/26/2011 2:12 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I agree with Tad. Dang, now I'll have to withdraw it, for sure. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 15:49:42 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:49:42 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: But what is the dumbest thing Bob ever said? "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I agree with Tad. > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> This is not the dumbest thing that Bob has ever said. And yes, that's a >> grudging compliment. >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> >>> One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the >>>> truth it is a misrepresentation of. >>>> >>>> --Bob >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Mar 26 16:50:21 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:50:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net><4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> [T]he function of poetry, like that of science, can only be fulfilled by the conception of harmonies that become clearer as they grow richer. As the chance note that comes to be supported by a melody becomes in that melody determinate and necessary, and as the melody, when woven into a harmony, is explicated in that harmony and fixed beyond recall; so the single emotion, the fortuitous dream, launched by the poet into the world of recognizable and immortal forms, looks in that world for its ideal supports and affinities. It must find them or else be blown back among the ghosts. The highest ideality is the comprehension of the real. Poetry is not at its best when it depicts a further possible experience, but when it initiates us, by feigning something which as an experience is impossible, into the meaning of the experience which we have actually had. George Santayana, ?The Elements and Function of Poetry,? Aesthetics and the Arts (McGraw-Hill Book Co., 1968), edited by Lee A. Jacobus - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 20:58:34 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:58:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry fashion shoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Orr's take: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/oprah-magazines-adventures-in-poetry.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 27 07:47:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 06:47:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry fashion shoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8F23C0.1020000@nut-n-but.net> David Orr, /the New York Times/ and Oprah--the perfect trifecta. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 27 08:06:42 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 07:06:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> On 3/23/2011 7:47 PM, David Graham wrote: > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 6:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> (To be technical, Shakespeare did twice write down what he thought.) >> >> --Bob > ------------------ > > So what did Shakespeare think, Bob? > Sorry to take so long to reply to this, David, but it was a tough question. I'm not sure even now that I'm right but I think he thought he was dedicating two poems to the Earl of Southampton. But that's only based on my possibly erroneous belief that one someone says, in effect, "I, William Shakespeare (or whatever his name is), say that . . ." what he next says probably is an expression of some thought of his. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Mar 27 13:15:43 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:15:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:06 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >?But that's only based on > my possibly erroneous belief that one someone says, in effect, "I, William > Shakespeare (or whatever his name is), say that . . ." what he next says > probably is an expression of some thought of his. Why do you insist on being disingenuous, as if you've never heard of politics or currying for favor or business proposal or fiction or even simply outright lying? *Particularly* in a dedication in which one hopes to curry favor from a patron? It's about as trustworthy as a book blurb (though you could believe all of those too). c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Mar 27 14:48:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:48:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net><4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D8F8664.3030905@nut-n-but.net> On 3/27/2011 12:15 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:06 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> But that's only based on >> my possibly erroneous belief that one someone says, in effect, "I, William >> Shakespeare (or whatever his name is), say that . . ." what he next says >> probably is an expression of some thought of his. > Why do you insist on being disingenuous, as if you've never heard of > politics or currying for favor or business proposal or fiction or even > simply outright lying? *Particularly* in a dedication in which one > hopes to curry favor from a patron? It's about as trustworthy as a > book blurb (though you could believe all of those too). > > c > ___ No, Chris, I believe none of them. Hence, they tell me what their authors thought. If a blurber says X's book is terrific, that means, as clear as day, that he thinks the book stinks. And certainly no politician ever speaks his mind. Why do you never contest the fact that in his second dedication Shakespeare said things that indicate he thought Southampton had been kind to him? And do you disagree that when Shakespeare wrote each of his dedications, he didn't think "I am dedicating a poem to Southampton?" You see, ALL I'm am doing is showing that, in the most trivially technical sense, I have won an extremely stupid debate. In his first dedication he (probably) lies about his opinion of his poem, but he almost certainly doesn't lie when he states that he hopes Southampton likes it! How could anyone say that he didn't think that and that we can't tell that he did from hwhat he wrote? Your problem, I think, is that you have too large an idea of what knowing a person's thinking is to be able to shift to my very literal interpretation of it for the sake of this stupid argument. You also have a skepticism about what we can tell of a writer's thoughts from certain materials like dedications that he writes, but as I've mentioned, such skepticism can be applied to anything a writer writes. --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Sun Mar 27 13:52:39 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:52:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: <4D8F8664.3030905@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> <4D8F8664.3030905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > No, Chris, I believe none of them. You almost had me thinking you were going to start making some sense. > Why do you never contest the fact that in his second dedication Shakespeare > said things that indicate he thought Southampton had been kind to him? ?And > do you disagree that when Shakespeare wrote each of his dedications, he > didn't think "I am dedicating a poem to Southampton?" Why would I contest it? Shakespeare received favor and wanted more, making the conjecture that either dedication represented what he really felt rather questionable in either case. If anything, it's potentially even less reliable the second time around-- no one wants to insult their patron. >You also have a skepticism > about what we can tell of a writer's thoughts from certain materials like > dedications that he writes, but as I've mentioned, such skepticism can be > applied to anything a writer writes. Of course, but some situations demand more skepticism than others. In that spectrum, as I said, this is a situation that demands quite a bit of skepticism. As for the argument being stupid: obviously it means something to you or you wouldn't keep circling back around to it, including sarcastic invocations of words that no one has said and accusations that only exist in your persecution-complex-addled mind. c From halvard at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 13:59:18 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:59:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 Goddamn words In-Reply-To: References: <4D8A7D18.9030906@nut-n-but.net> <4D8F2852.8000004@nut-n-but.net> <4D8F8664.3030905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob wishes he were persecuted, Chris. "is there enough silence here for a glass of water" --David Antin Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > No, Chris, I believe none of them. > > You almost had me thinking you were going to start making some sense. > > > Why do you never contest the fact that in his second dedication > Shakespeare > > said things that indicate he thought Southampton had been kind to him? > And > > do you disagree that when Shakespeare wrote each of his dedications, he > > didn't think "I am dedicating a poem to Southampton?" > > Why would I contest it? Shakespeare received favor and wanted more, > making the conjecture that either dedication represented what he > really felt rather questionable in either case. If anything, it's > potentially even less reliable the second time around-- no one wants > to insult their patron. > > >You also have a skepticism > > about what we can tell of a writer's thoughts from certain materials like > > dedications that he writes, but as I've mentioned, such skepticism can be > > applied to anything a writer writes. > > Of course, but some situations demand more skepticism than others. In > that spectrum, as I said, this is a situation that demands quite a bit > of skepticism. > > As for the argument being stupid: obviously it means something to you > or you wouldn't keep circling back around to it, including sarcastic > invocations of words that no one has said and accusations that only > exist in your persecution-complex-addled mind. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 27 17:26:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:26:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net><4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net><4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDBADCC6751510-1468-3685E@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Waka Careful! Even moonlit dewdrops, If you?re lured to watch, Are a wall before the Truth. ?Sogyo (1667-1731), Selected Poems & Zen Translation (Skoob Books, LTD, London, 1997) by Lucian Stryk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Mar 27 18:25:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:25:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net><4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net><4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDBAE4F590AD70-1468-36FE6@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Craft means handiwork, a matter of hands...Only truthful hands write true poems. I cannot see any basic difference between a handshake and a poem. --Paul Celan = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 02:17:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:17:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <8CDBADCC6751510-1468-3685E@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com> <4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net> <4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net> <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net> <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> <8CDBADCC6751510-1468-3685E@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This is an exceptional poem! On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 11:26 PM, wrote: > Waka > > Careful! Even moonlit dewdrops, > If you?re lured to watch, > Are a wall before the Truth. > > > ?Sogyo (1667-1731), Selected Poems & Zen Translation (Skoob Books, LTD, > London, 1997) by Lucian Stryk > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Mar 28 10:43:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:43:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <8CDBB6D968D184B-BD8-F555@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/reviews/single/164997-beautiful--pointless-a-guide-to-modern-poetry.html Beautiful & Pointless: A Guide to Modern Poetry David Orr. Harper, $25.99 (256p) ISBN 978-0-06-167345-0 This debut from New York Times Book Review poetry columnist Orr is equal parts friendly invitation for the uniniti-ated into the joys and possibilities of reading poetry for the uninitiated and opinionated cultural critique of the contemporary American poetry scene, on which Orr has an unusual vantage point, being one of the only poetry critics with a wide readership, while also being a poet himself. Divided into six chapters----with titles like "The Personal," "The Fishbowl," and "Why Bother?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Mon Mar 28 22:42:49 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:42:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] just for kicks Message-ID: Here'a a YouTube clip of my band, Fractal Folk, doing part of a song my fiancee set from a poem I never finished: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_j4jg2b57U From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 04:24:01 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:24:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Writing and Rewriting Gaddafi Message-ID: "On the side of playfulness ? and perhaps with some admiration for the bearer ? some commentators also try to rewrite ?Gaddafi? as ?Gadfly,? as if the sound is also the sense within and across languages. Thrilled by this, I have started searching my books to find out if his name is spelled ?God-a-fi? anywhere, to accommodate the image of a god that he is fast acquiring! God-a-fis and gadflies go together in a modern ?Hannibalization? of North Africa and the Mediterranean." Read the full article, " Writing & Rewriting Gaddafi," at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5685993-182/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:37:07 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:37:07 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.net><4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net>, <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net>, <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Brevity is the soul of wit. At Harvard, Santayana is, even now, is revered as an ikon. Couldn't take academe anymore, and like Geoffrey Movius, vanished into thin air. That said, I just have to say that in this contest between Grumman and Santayana, Grumman comes in a close first. One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the > truth it is a misrepresentation of. > > --Bob To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:50:21 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION [T]he function of poetry, like that of science, can only be fulfilled by the conception of harmonies that become clearer as they grow richer. As the chance note that comes to be supported by a melody becomes in that melody determinate and necessary, and as the melody, when woven into a harmony, is explicated in that harmony and fixed beyond recall; so the single emotion, the fortuitous dream, launched by the poet into the world of recognizable and immortal forms, looks in that world for its ideal supports and affinities. It must find them or else be blown back among the ghosts. The highest ideality is the comprehension of the real. Poetry is not at its best when it depicts a further possible experience, but when it initiates us, by feigning something which as an experience is impossible, into the meaning of the experience which we have actually had. George Santayana, ?The Elements and Function of Poetry,? Aesthetics and the Arts (McGraw-Hill Book Co., 1968), edited by Lee A. Jacobus - _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 29 12:30:49 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:30:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the truth, lies and damned lies REVISION In-Reply-To: References: <8CDB937771F559D-1CC8-1AE80@webmail-m139.sysops.aol.com><4D8D1935.70000@nut-n-but.n et><4D8D1A94.6050209@nut-n-but.net>, <4D8E346F.5060000@nut-n-but.net>, <8CDBA0E8EE2A205-13FC-1C580@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D920939.8030603@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 6:37 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Brevity is the soul of wit. > > At Harvard, Santayana is, even now, is revered as an ikon. Couldn't > take academe anymore, > and like Geoffrey Movius, vanished into thin air. > That said, I just have to say that in this contest between Grumman and > Santayana, > Grumman comes in a close first. > > One experiences the pleasure of a poem the moment one recognizes the > > truth it is a misrepresentation of. > > > > --Bob Hey, thanks, Richard. That's about the highest praise I could get, it seems to me. But I had the advantage of having followed rather than preceded Santayana. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 29 13:25:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:25:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com> Message-ID: <8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Knopf Poetry To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:00 pm Subject: Poetry Month is Coming! Share this video with your friends: And watch for the first installment of the 2011 Poem-a-Day collection this Friday in your email. knopfdoubleday.com :: @AAKnopf :: facebook.com/AlfredKnopf Knopf Poetry | Poem-a-Day You have received this message because you are subscribed to the Knopf Poetry Newsletter. To change your subscription information, receive additional enewsletters or to unsubscribe from this list, please visit our email preference center. View our privacy policy. Copyright ? 1995-2010 Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. Random House, Inc., 1745 Broadway, New York, NY 10019 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 29 13:36:38 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:36:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] First World War Poets Message-ID: <8CDBC4EFE054E50-6BC-364BA@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/non_fictionreviews/8404365/The-Red-Sweet-Wine-of-Youth-The-Brave-and-Brief-Lives-of-the-War-Poets-by-Nicholas-Murray-review.html# The Red Sweet Wine of Youth: The Brave and Brief Lives of the War Poets by Nicholas Murray: By Thomas Marks 12:45PM BST 29 Mar 2011 Comment ?I hate the growing tendency to think that every man drops overboard his individuality between Folkestone and Boulogne,? complained the soldier-poet Charles Hamilton Sorley in 1915. To the press in Blighty you were either a Tommy ?with a character like a nice big fighting pet bear? or a young officer with ?a silly habit of giggling in the face of death?. As Nicholas Murray?s elegant biographical sketches of the war poets demonstrate, many of the poems that emerged from the conflict were pointed against the encroaching anonymity of trench warfare. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 13:40:11 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com> <8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Run away! Run away! - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM, wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Knopf Poetry > To: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:00 pm > Subject: Poetry Month is Coming! > > [image: Poetry Month is Almost Here] [image: April is Poetry Month - > Watch the Video!] > Share this video with your friends: > [image: Email] > [image: Tweet] > [image: Facebook] > And watch for the first installment of the 2011 Poem-a-Day collection > this Friday in your email. > knopfdoubleday.com:: > @AAKnopf:: > facebook.com/AlfredKnopf > *Knopf Poetry | Poem-a-Day > * > You have received this message because you are subscribed to the Knopf > Poetry Newsletter. > To change your subscription information, receive additional enewsletters or > to unsubscribe from this list, > please visit our email preference center > . > View our privacy policy > . > Copyright ? 1995-2010 Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. > Random House, Inc., 1745 Broadway, New York, NY 10019 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 29 15:50:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:50:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 12:40 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Run away! Run away! > > - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April . Hey, great chance to let everyone know that during April you can view one work daily at Nationalpoetrymonth.ca from each of the following poets on the days indicated: 1. Eric Zboya 2. Camille Martin 3. Gil McElroy 4. Marton Koppany 5. Matthew Stolte 6. Reed Altemus 7. Satu Kaikkonen 8. mEIKAL aND 9. andrew topel 10. Bob Grumman 11. Helen Hajnoczky 12. Joel Lipman 13. Aileen Beno 14. Vern Frazer 15. Bill DiMichele 16. Chad Lietz 17. Anatol 18. Christine McNair 19. Gary Barwin 20. Pearl Pirie 21. John M. Bennett 22. Marcus McCann 23. Geof Huth 24. John C. Goodman 25. derek beaulieu 26. Megan Zucher 27. Sheila E. Murphy 28. Lily Robert-Foley 29. kevin mcpherson eckhoff 30. Michele Provost. Yeah, Jim, I think the whole idea of National Poetry Month is stupid. The problem, though, is that opportunities to get one's work in front of others are rare and (too) many of them are restricted to April. For instance, the above, and a chance I had locally for an exhibition of my visual poems at a local community college that apparently hasn't come off, but would only have been possible during National Poetry Month. --Bob From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Mar 29 14:52:52 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> <4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Who is that on the 10th? Is he even a poet? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 3:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! On 3/29/2011 12:40 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Run away! Run away! > > - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April . Hey, great chance to let everyone know that during April you can view one work daily at Nationalpoetrymonth.ca from each of the following poets on the days indicated: 1. Eric Zboya 2. Camille Martin 3. Gil McElroy 4. Marton Koppany 5. Matthew Stolte 6. Reed Altemus 7. Satu Kaikkonen 8. mEIKAL aND 9. andrew topel 10. Bob Grumman 11. Helen Hajnoczky 12. Joel Lipman 13. Aileen Beno 14. Vern Frazer 15. Bill DiMichele 16. Chad Lietz 17. Anatol 18. Christine McNair 19. Gary Barwin 20. Pearl Pirie 21. John M. Bennett 22. Marcus McCann 23. Geof Huth 24. John C. Goodman 25. derek beaulieu 26. Megan Zucher 27. Sheila E. Murphy 28. Lily Robert-Foley 29. kevin mcpherson eckhoff 30. Michele Provost. Yeah, Jim, I think the whole idea of National Poetry Month is stupid. The problem, though, is that opportunities to get one's work in front of others are rare and (too) many of them are restricted to April. For instance, the above, and a chance I had locally for an exhibition of my visual poems at a local community college that apparently hasn't come off, but would only have been possible during National Poetry Month. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 15:23:15 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:23:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] First World War Poets In-Reply-To: <8CDBC4EFE054E50-6BC-364BA@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBC4EFE054E50-6BC-364BA@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I strongly recommend David Jones's *In Parenthesis*. A prose poem, though often labeled a novel, about the world he went to and survived in youth. And the "the encroaching anonymity of trench warfare" is clearly in evidence, On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 12:36 PM, wrote: > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/non_fictionreviews/8404365/The-Red-Sweet-Wine-of-Youth-The-Brave-and-Brief-Lives-of-the-War-Poets-by-Nicholas-Murray-review.html > # > > The Red Sweet Wine of Youth: The Brave and Brief Lives of the War Poets by > Nicholas Murray: > By Thomas Marks 12:45PM BST 29 Mar 2011 Comment > > ?I hate the growing tendency to think that every man drops overboard his > individuality between Folkestone and Boulogne,? complained the soldier-poet > Charles Hamilton Sorley in 1915. > > To the press in Blighty you were either a Tommy ?with a character like a > nice big fighting pet bear? or a young officer with ?a silly habit of > giggling in the face of death?. As Nicholas Murray?s elegant biographical > sketches of the war poets demonstrate, many of the poems that emerged from > the conflict were pointed against the encroaching anonymity of trench > warfare. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Mar 29 15:31:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> <4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <765476.58302.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Rumor: he's a fraud. ( i know these things ... ) ________________________________ From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 2:52:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! Who is that on the 10th? Is he even a poet? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 3:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! On 3/29/2011 12:40 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Run away! Run away! > > - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April . Hey, great chance to let everyone know that during April you can view one work daily at Nationalpoetrymonth.ca from each of the following poets on the days indicated: 1. Eric Zboya 2. Camille Martin 3. Gil McElroy 4. Marton Koppany 5. Matthew Stolte 6. Reed Altemus 7. Satu Kaikkonen 8. mEIKAL aND 9. andrew topel 10. Bob Grumman 11. Helen Hajnoczky 12. Joel Lipman 13. Aileen Beno 14. Vern Frazer 15. Bill DiMichele 16. Chad Lietz 17. Anatol 18. Christine McNair 19. Gary Barwin 20. Pearl Pirie 21. John M. Bennett 22. Marcus McCann 23. Geof Huth 24. John C. Goodman 25. derek beaulieu 26. Megan Zucher 27. Sheila E. Murphy 28. Lily Robert-Foley 29. kevin mcpherson eckhoff 30. Michele Provost. Yeah, Jim, I think the whole idea of National Poetry Month is stupid. The problem, though, is that opportunities to get one's work in front of others are rare and (too) many of them are restricted to April. For instance, the above, and a chance I had locally for an exhibition of my visual poems at a local community college that apparently hasn't come off, but would only have been possible during National Poetry Month. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Mar 29 18:16:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:16:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDBC7625CFDA57-1F40-51FF@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com> Too late for that. They live among us. Family, friends, neighbors. You may notice one will spend a little too long gazing at a newly opened crocus. Or catch one scribbling down an array of words, claiming it's only grocery list. -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:40 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! Run away! Run away! - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM, wrote: -----Original Message----- From: Knopf Poetry To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:00 pm Subject: Poetry Month is Coming! Share this video with your friends: And watch for the first installment of the 2011 Poem-a-Day collection this Friday in your email. knopfdoubleday.com :: @AAKnopf :: facebook.com/AlfredKnopf Knopf Poetry | Poem-a-Day You have received this message because you are subscribed to the Knopf Poetry Newsletter. To change your subscription information, receive additional enewsletters or to unsubscribe from this list, please visit our email preference center. View our privacy policy. Copyright ? 1995-2010 Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. Random House, Inc., 1745 Broadway, New York, NY 10019 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 29 20:04:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:04:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D927375.7060303@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 1:52 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Who is that on the 10th? Is he even a poet? Ha, he's much closer to being one than some of the others, John. Some of them may very well have no words in their "poems." I believe a requirement of a poem is words, but many, perhaps most, in visual poetry do not. --Bob > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Tue, March 29, 2011 3:50:13 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! > > On 3/29/2011 12:40 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > Run away! Run away! > > > > - Jim, celebrating poetry every month but April > . > Hey, great chance to let everyone know that during April you can view > one work daily at Nationalpoetrymonth.ca from each of the following > poets on the days indicated: > > > 1. Eric Zboya > 2. Camille Martin > 3. Gil McElroy > 4. Marton Koppany > 5. Matthew Stolte > 6. Reed Altemus > 7. Satu Kaikkonen > 8. mEIKAL aND > 9. andrew topel > 10. Bob Grumman > 11. Helen Hajnoczky > 12. Joel Lipman > 13. Aileen Beno > 14. Vern Frazer > 15. Bill DiMichele > 16. Chad Lietz > 17. Anatol > 18. Christine McNair > 19. Gary Barwin > 20. Pearl Pirie > 21. John M. Bennett > 22. Marcus McCann > 23. Geof Huth > 24. John C. Goodman > 25. derek beaulieu > 26. Megan Zucher > 27. Sheila E. Murphy > 28. Lily Robert-Foley > 29. kevin mcpherson eckhoff > 30. Michele Provost. > > > Yeah, Jim, I think the whole idea of National Poetry Month is stupid. > The problem, though, is that opportunities to get one's work in front > of others are rare and (too) many of them are restricted to April. > For instance, the above, and a chance I had locally for an exhibition > of my visual poems at a local community college that apparently hasn't > come off, but would only have been possible during National Poetry Month. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 29 20:04:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:04:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D927397.4060901@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 1:52 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Who is that on the 10th? Is he even a poet? . By the way, did you recognize any names besides mine? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Mar 29 20:05:42 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:05:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <765476.58302.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net><111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.ya hoo.com> <765476.58302.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D9273D6.8060408@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 2:31 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Rumor: he's a fraud. ( i know these things ... ) . But you promised not to tell! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Mar 29 21:44:53 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <4D927397.4060901@nut-n-but.net> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net> <111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4D927397.4060901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <302919.23684.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I did not, Bob. You stand alone. But that's not saying much considering that I live on the Wilbur end of Wilshberia (nice houses, well-kept lawns). I rarely even venture over to the Ashbery side of town (so chaotic, and who can understand the way they speak), so there was little chance that I would recognize the names of any of those graffiti "artists" that defile our lovely town. John ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 8:04:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! On 3/29/2011 1:52 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: Who is that on the 10th? Is he even a poet? > . By the way, did you recognize any names besides mine? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 30 09:22:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:22:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <302919.23684.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net><111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.ya hoo.com><4D927397.4060901@nut-n-but.net> <302919.23684.qm@web120504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D932E84.6070909@nut-n-but.net> On 3/29/2011 8:44 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > I did not, Bob. You stand alone. > > But that's not saying much considering that I live on the Wilbur end > of Wilshberia (nice houses, well-kept lawns). I rarely even venture > over to the Ashbery side of town (so chaotic, and who can understand > the way they speak), so there was little chance that I would recognize > the names of any of those graffiti "artists" that defile our lovely town. > > John Yeeks, John, Professor Graham is gonna be mad at you: you're sounding like "Wilshberia" had some kind of use for discussion of poetry! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 30 09:58:14 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <4D9273D6.8060408@nut-n-but.net> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net><111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.ya hoo.com> <765476.58302.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4D9273D6.8060408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <727867.22494.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm not to be trusted. & besides, I'm immature, lacking any sort of impulse control. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 8:05:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! On 3/29/2011 2:31 PM, stephen russell wrote: Rumor: he's a fraud. ( i know these things ... ) >. But you promised not to tell! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 30 13:00:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:00:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <727867.22494.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1009679917764.1107432199.1301418042980@enginex4.emv2.com><8CDBC4D5E356874-6BC-35F71@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com><4D9237F5.2060207@nut-n-but.net><111013.1330.qm@web120515.mail.ne1.ya hoo.com> <765476.58302.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4D9273D6.8060408@nut-n-but.net> <727867.22494.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D9361AC.4000806@nut-n-but.net> On 3/30/2011 8:58 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm not to be trusted. & besides, I'm immature, lacking any sort of > impulse control. Okay, Stephen, I'll be more careful around you from now on. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Mar 30 12:26:07 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <205259.5996.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I know 24 of them, do I win something? >>By the way, did you recognize any names besides mine? Hey, great chance to let everyone know that during April you can view one work daily at Nationalpoetrymonth.ca from each of the following poets on the days indicated: 1. Eric Zboya 2. Camille Martin 3. Gil McElroy 4. Marton Koppany 5. Matthew Stolte 6. Reed Altemus 7. Satu Kaikkonen 8. mEIKAL aND 9. andrew topel 10. Bob Grumman 11. Helen Hajnoczky 12. Joel Lipman 13. Aileen Beno 14. Vern Frazer 15. Bill DiMichele 16. Chad Lietz 17. Anatol 18. Christine McNair 19. Gary Barwin 20. Pearl Pirie 21. John M. Bennett 22. Marcus McCann 23. Geof Huth 24. John C. Goodman 25. derek beaulieu 26. Megan Zucher 27. Sheila E. Murphy 28. Lily Robert-Foley 29. kevin mcpherson eckhoff 30. Michele Provost. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Mar 30 14:21:55 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:21:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Poetry Month is Coming! In-Reply-To: <205259.5996.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <205259.5996.qm@web45602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D9374C3.3050702@nut-n-but.net> On 3/30/2011 11:26 AM, David Baratier wrote: > I know 24 of them, do I win something? This is New-Poetry, David: hence, the contest is to find out who knows the /least /of them. John has a good lead, but maybe some other member will learn of the competition from someone other than I and thus be able honestly to claim ignorance of all of them. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Mar 30 14:55:52 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mob month/why not? Message-ID: <818812.79964.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Shouldn't we honor are true national heroes and have a mob month? Without getting too political, the former administration would fill the role nicely. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 15:23:50 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:23:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The discontinuum ... Message-ID: ___________________________ THE DISCONTINUUM OF PARADISE (a meandering performance of S?amas Cain written for the fluxian Keith A. Buchholz & the fluxian Sheila E. Murphy) at the FLUXUS Festival in the Museum of Contemporary Art at Chicago, Illinois, on Sunday, February 20th, 2011. Photograph by John M. Bennett of "Sleep, worm, curious horncalls." http://seamascain-writernetwork.org The Fluxus Museum, visuals from Chicago ... http://fluxmuseum.org/ The Fluxus Blog, description of the festival ... http://www.digitalsalon.com/weblog/pivot/entry.php?id=181 Fluxus at Wikipedia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxus Ken Friedman & Forty Years of Fluxus ... http://www.artnotart.com/fluxus/kfriedman-fourtyyears.html Fluxus & the New Manifesto ... http://www.digitalsalon.com/weblog/pivot/entry.php?id=184 Fluxus for the New Century ... http://www.digitalsalon.com/weblog/ In flux, S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain ___________________________ From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 09:30:27 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:30:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz Message-ID: There was a Centenary Celebration for Milosz at UC Berkeley last night. Adam Zagajewski spoke of Milosz as a poet with a goal of understanding how the world was put together (far more eloquently than this one sentence summary.) His son, Tony Milosz, discussed the tendency to translate the poems of ideas into English and his own work translating his father as a poet of song. And Bob Hass talked about Milosz in Berkeley and Poland, as well as MCing the event. Here's one translated by Hass and one translated by Tony Milosz. Carol talkingwriting.com Theodicy by Czeslaw Milosz Czeslaw Milosz No, it won?t do, my sweet theologians. Desire will not save the morality of God. If he created beings able to choose between good and evil, And they chose, and the world lies in iniquity, Nevertheless, there is pain, and the undeserved torture of creatures, Which would find its explanation only by assuming The existence of an archetypal Paradise And a pre-human downfall so grave That the world of matter received its shape from diabolic power. *Translated by Czeslaw Milosz and Robert Hass* A Song On the End of the World by Czeslaw Milosz translated by Anthony Milosz On the day the world ends A bee circles a clover, A fisherman mends a glimmering net. Happy porpoises jump in the sea, By the rainspout young sparrows are playing And the snake is gold-skinned as it should always be. On the day the world ends Women walk through the fields under their umbrellas, A drunkard grows sleepy at the edge of a lawn, Vegetable peddlers shout in the street And a yellow-sailed boat comes nearer the island, The voice of a violin lasts in the air And leads into a starry night. And those who expected lightning and thunder Are disappointed. And those who expected signs and archangels' trumps Do not believe it is happening now. As long as the sun and the moon are above, As long as the bumblebee visits a rose, As long as rosy infants are born No one believes it is happening now. Only a white-haired old man, who would be a prophet Yet is not a prophet, for he's much too busy, Repeats while he binds his tomatoes: No other end of the world will there be, No other end of the world will there be. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 11:54:18 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:54:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A review of poetic drama ... Message-ID: _____________________________________ A review by Jana Peterson, the editor of The Pine Journal in Cloquet, Minnesota ... "History of Irish in Minnesota told in dramatic fashion," in the issue for Thursday, March 24th, 2011, Volume Number 128, Issue Number 12, on page A5 ... http://www.pinejournal.com/event/article/id/23159/ http://www.pinejournal.com/event/image/id/4935/headline/Irish%20voices/ http://www.pinejournal.com/event/image/id/4936/headline/S%C3%A9amas%20Cain/ For additional information, go to ... http://m.pinejournal.com/article.cfm?id=23011 Attentively, S?amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org _____________________________________ From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Mar 31 14:29:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <557749.90318.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I recall a tongue and cheek comment from Milosz although I can't remember who did the interviewed. Milosz said something about feeling out of place as a poet in the States because he wasn't an alcoholic or a drug addict and he didn't suffer from any sort of mental illness. I suppose we can forgive him for lacking our native skills. ________________________________ From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 9:30:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz There was a Centenary Celebration for Milosz at UC Berkeley last night. Adam Zagajewski spoke of Milosz as a poet with a goal of understanding how the world was put together (far more eloquently than this one sentence summary.) His son, Tony Milosz, discussed the tendency to translate the poems of ideas into English and his own work translating his father as a poet of song. And Bob Hass talked about Milosz in Berkeley and Poland, as well as MCing the event. Here's one translated by Hass and one translated by Tony Milosz. Carol talkingwriting.com Theodicy by Czeslaw Milosz Czeslaw Milosz No, it won?t do, my sweet theologians. Desire will not save the morality of God. If he created beings able to choose between good and evil, And they chose, and the world lies in iniquity, Nevertheless, there is pain, and the undeserved torture of creatures, Which would find its explanation only by assuming The existence of an archetypal Paradise And a pre-human downfall so grave That the world of matter received its shape from diabolic power. Translated by Czeslaw Milosz and Robert Hass A Song On the End of the World by Czeslaw Milosz translated by Anthony Milosz On the day the world ends A bee circles a clover, A fisherman mends a glimmering net. Happy porpoises jump in the sea, By the rainspout young sparrows are playing And the snake is gold-skinned as it should always be. On the day the world ends Women walk through the fields under their umbrellas, A drunkard grows sleepy at the edge of a lawn, Vegetable peddlers shout in the street And a yellow-sailed boat comes nearer the island, The voice of a violin lasts in the air And leads into a starry night. And those who expected lightning and thunder Are disappointed. And those who expected signs and archangels' trumps Do not believe it is happening now. As long as the sun and the moon are above, As long as the bumblebee visits a rose, As long as rosy infants are born No one believes it is happening now. Only a white-haired old man, who would be a prophet Yet is not a prophet, for he's much too busy, Repeats while he binds his tomatoes: No other end of the world will there be, No other end of the world will there be. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Mar 31 14:52:15 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:52:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz In-Reply-To: <557749.90318.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, the Poles are especially noted for their sobriety. . . . On 3/31/11 1:29 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: > I recall a tongue and cheek comment from Milosz although I can't remember who > did the interviewed. Milosz said something about feeling out of place as a > poet in the States because he wasn't an alcoholic or a drug addict and he > didn't suffer from any sort of mental illness. I suppose we can forgive him > for lacking our native skills. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Mar 31 15:01:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87231.65263.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> They're no different from the Irish. The few ( sober Irish ) I know are as miserable as the 2 or 3 other people I'm acquainted with who seem to be occassionally sober. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 2:52:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Czeslaw Milosz Re: Czeslaw Milosz Yeah, the Poles are especially noted for their sobriety. . . . On 3/31/11 1:29 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: I recall a tongue and cheek comment from Milosz although I can't remember who did the interviewed. Milosz said something about feeling out of place as a poet in the States because he wasn't an alcoholic or a drug addict and he didn't suffer from any sort of mental illness. I suppose we can forgive him for lacking our native skills. > -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Mar 31 16:03:27 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:03:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare and Verlander Message-ID: http://www.slate.com/id/2289380 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Mar 31 19:18:19 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 19:18:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Berrigan Message-ID: <8CDBE110E2802E2-DE4-3282@webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com> http://www.praguepost.com/night-and-day/books/8024-ted-berrigans-loveliness-of-language.html Berrigan's first and best-known book, The Sonnets, appropriated the classical form of the sonnet into an avant-garde context, using pop-art references and the cut-up technique, whereby lines of text were cut up and rearranged - essentially a physical rather than conceptual approach to language. The book was an instant classic and is still considered a seminal text for American poetry. "It is night. You are asleep. And beautiful tears/ Have blossomed in my eyes. Guillaume Apollinaire is dead./ The big green day today is singing to itself/ A vast orange library of dreams, dreams/ dressed in newspaper, wan as pale thighs..." Berrigan writes in sonnet "XXXVII." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: