From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 1 09:42:46 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:42:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination Message-ID: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5i-jEf2q6GiP0CmQCmPYrOHvE1KPg?docId=7011640 Griffin Poetry Prize finalist Suzanne Buffam says award's reach is far By Victoria Ahearn, The Canadian Press ? 12 hours ago TORONTO ? Vancouver-raised poet Suzanne Buffam has been earning kudos for her work for over a decade, winning accolades such as the CBC Literary Award for Poetry and the Gerald Lampert Memorial Award for Poetry. Still, even the most revered poets sometimes have trouble reaching audiences outside their niche market. Buffam says her Griffin Poetry Prize nomination is helping her do just that. "It seems to be a prize that people who I don't think normally read that much poetry pay attention to," Buffam, who teaches creative writing at the University of Chicago, said in a recent phone interview. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jun 1 11:04:30 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination In-Reply-To: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <640228.69096.qm@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I don't know if Bob is "out of office" yet, but as a reminder... Another half-talent Wilshberian poet wins an award? ?Big surprise. ?And now she can reach an audience outside her "niche market"? ?Like who, other Wilshberia poets? ?All these awards stink of cronyism. ?I just wish someone who give an award to a realniche market, like mine. Not Bob, but keeping the spirit alive >________________________________ >From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 9:42 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination > > >http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5i-jEf2q6GiP0CmQCmPYrOHvE1KPg?docId=7011640 >Griffin Poetry Prize finalist Suzanne Buffam says award's reach is far >By Victoria Ahearn, The Canadian Press ? 12 hours ago >? >TORONTO ? Vancouver-raised poet Suzanne Buffam has been earning kudos for her work for over a decade, winning accolades such as the CBC Literary Award for Poetry and the Gerald Lampert Memorial Award for Poetry. >? >Still, even the most revered poets sometimes have trouble reaching audiences outside their niche market. Buffam says her Griffin Poetry Prize nomination is helping her do just that. >? >"It seems to be a prize that people who I don't think normally read that much poetry pay attention to," Buffam, who teaches creative writing at the University of Chicago, said in a recent phone interview. >? >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Wed Jun 1 11:06:48 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination In-Reply-To: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <835089.70549.qm@web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I don't know if Bob is "out of office" yet, but as a reminder... Another half-talent Wilshberian poet wins an award? ?Big surprise. ?And now she can reach an audience outside her "niche market"? ?Like who, other Wilshberia poets? ?All these awards stink of cronyism. ?I just wish someone who give an award to a realniche market, like mine. Not Bob, but keeping the spirit alive >________________________________ >From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 9:42 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination > > >http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5i-jEf2q6GiP0CmQCmPYrOHvE1KPg?docId=7011640 >Griffin Poetry Prize finalist Suzanne Buffam says award's reach is far >By Victoria Ahearn, The Canadian Press ? 12 hours ago >? >TORONTO ? Vancouver-raised poet Suzanne Buffam has been earning kudos for her work for over a decade, winning accolades such as the CBC Literary Award for Poetry and the Gerald Lampert Memorial Award for Poetry. >? >Still, even the most revered poets sometimes have trouble reaching audiences outside their niche market. Buffam says her Griffin Poetry Prize nomination is helping her do just that. >? >"It seems to be a prize that people who I don't think normally read that much poetry pay attention to," Buffam, who teaches creative writing at the University of Chicago, said in a recent phone interview. >? >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Wed Jun 1 11:42:23 2011 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:42:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination Message-ID: <20110601084223.870ee2c6f4cdb7a25c6769c3e9ddf335.47d1fb57f7.wbe@email06.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jun 1 11:49:04 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 07:49:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Poem In-Reply-To: <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Starts with spring (life), then summer of love, then fall when the leaves fall (so the vowel falls out), then winter. Just guessing, and quickly. c On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:00 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > It's an infraverbal poem, not a visual poem: > > Four Seasons Poem Number One Zillion Two > > live > > love > > leve > > lve > > > I think it may be my best poem ever! > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From millb at aol.com Wed Jun 1 11:52:41 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists In-Reply-To: References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, I have a poem in the latest Poets and Artists! Issue #25 is a collabororation between artists and poets on the theme of self portrait. Free online or order a print copy. Here are the details. Poets and Artists Issue #25 is available online and in print: http://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/201978 Here's the link to my collaboration with artist Pauline Aubey: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1sevs/PoetsArtistsCollabor/resources/26.htm Thanks, Millicent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu Wed Jun 1 12:29:30 2011 From: richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu (Wilsnack, Richard) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:29:30 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination In-Reply-To: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEE78ECBEA67F-A8C-28890@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We gave serious attention to aphorisms a short while back. Perhaps Suzanne Buffam's should be added to our collection: "On Last Lines" The last line should strike like a lover's complaint. You should never see it coming. And you should never hear the end of it. Richard W. Wilsnack richard.wilsnack at med.und.edu ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:43 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Vancouver poet Suzanne Buffam & Griffin nomination http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5i-jEf2q6GiP0CmQCmPYrOHvE1KPg?docId=7011640 Griffin Poetry Prize finalist Suzanne Buffam says award's reach is far By Victoria Ahearn, The Canadian Press - 12 hours ago TORONTO - Vancouver-raised poet Suzanne Buffam has been earning kudos for her work for over a decade, winning accolades such as the CBC Literary Award for Poetry and the Gerald Lampert Memorial Award for Poetry. Still, even the most revered poets sometimes have trouble reaching audiences outside their niche market. Buffam says her Griffin Poetry Prize nomination is helping her do just that. "It seems to be a prize that people who I don't think normally read that much poetry pay attention to," Buffam, who teaches creative writing at the University of Chicago, said in a recent phone interview. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 1 22:07:49 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 22:07:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Art of Attention Message-ID: <8CDEEE101D2666B-10D0-5B26E@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> I began reading the The Art of Attention by Donald Revell in the summer of 2009 while traveling the Mendocino coast. For some reason I set the book aside and, spotting it on end table last week, I picked it up again and finished it. The treatise (167 pps)takes you through the writing of his books and tries to demonstrate ?How I separated myself from certain formalist ticks along with an over reliance on mediation as it manifests itself through metaphor/imagination, and got my groove back by writing as directly I could from the phenomenological experiences as they presented themselves in my life,? in so many words. It?s a good read, lots nice quotes along the way, some name-dropping (hangin? with John Ashbery), and some very interesting thoughts on translation (Apollinaire) and how it changed the writing of Revell, the translator. One of the virtues of the book is its casual tone and easy-going erudition. You feel you get to know Donald Revell as a likable and learned fellow in the course of reading the book. A few passages? Attention is a question of entirety, of being wholly present. The poet who fully comes to his senses brings all his words, all of his cadences when he comes?And so the poem has nothing to do with picking and choosing, with the mot juste and reflection in tranquility. It is the plain record of one?s entire presence. [20] - There is a poetry outside of Eden too. But to the extent that the peace of pure attention can be prolonger or even plainly advocated in the poem, to just that extent does the poem wage peace, to just that extent does the poem gain access to clarity, the virtue, and the immediacy (meditation is aggression) of that peace. [38] - Whether I write or not, the world continues the effortless composition of itself, as anyone, including myself, can see. No, there?s no need of another poem from me, but writing is, despite all my self-righteous disclaimers, a pleasure I prefer to enjoy rather than to remember. And when my writing is altogether familiar, altogether too easy (the words ?easy? and ?effortless? are, I insist, not synonyms) and too entirely intact from the very beginning, I get no pleasure at all. I might as well be emptying the dishwasher, as I do first-thing every morning half-asleep. A poet writes when he?s awake, and writer?s block is merely sleep-writing, an absence by day and an imposture in its dream. [69] - And so, via such stints of translation, the pleasures of writing have time and again returned to me. With ears for a new sound, with eyes rinsed clear of shady habit, I could hear a line I?d never written and see a beauty further than I?d known. I suppose that ?s all that a new poem is, to a poet: a cadence that was always on the wind but only just now heard as a music; an object always to hand but only just now lifted into the sunshine where it shows the eye a shape and shapeliness it had not seen to use. [71] - Light lily lily light light lily light Imagically Lightli ly Outline stones for the wind All creatures come To mind to oneness Light first and last, and lilies and lights along the way. The alleyway, in just that way and just that order, pleasured my eyes. Of course it was a happiness to say. ?Only the lull I like? wrote Whitman. If I can see it, it must be moving; and when I see it, I am moving too. The lull is not a pause. The lull is an ensemble underway, and as I found, anything I might say would be an adverb. [157] Donald Revell, The Art of Attention (Graywolf Press, 2007)https://www.graywolfpress.org/component/page,shop.flypage/category_id,bf8108ff1901b3e2f2376627dd7f8c0d/product_id,232/option,com_phpshop/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 02:36:11 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:36:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Art of Attention In-Reply-To: <8CDEEE101D2666B-10D0-5B26E@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDEEE101D2666B-10D0-5B26E@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Very nice. On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:07 AM, wrote: > I began reading the *The Art of Attention* by Donald Revell in the summer > of 2009 while traveling the Mendocino coast. For some reason I set the book > aside and, spotting it on end table last week, I picked it up again and > finished it. The treatise (167 pps)takes you through the writing of his > books and tries to demonstrate ?How I separated myself from certain > formalist ticks along with an over reliance on mediation as it manifests > itself through metaphor/imagination, and got my groove back by writing as > directly I could from the phenomenological experiences as they presented > themselves in my life,? in so many words. > > It?s a good read, lots nice quotes along the way, some name-dropping > (hangin? with John Ashbery), and some very interesting thoughts on > translation (Apollinaire) and how it changed the writing of Revell, the > translator. One of the virtues of the book is its casual tone and > easy-going erudition. You feel you get to know Donald Revell as a likable > and learned fellow in the course of reading the book. > > A few passages? > > Attention is a question of entirety, of being wholly present. The poet who > fully comes to his senses brings all his words, all of his cadences when he > comes?And so the poem has nothing to do with picking and choosing, with the > *mot juste* and reflection in tranquility. It is the plain record of one?s > entire presence. [20] > - > There is a poetry outside of Eden too. But to the extent that the peace of > pure attention can be prolonger or even plainly advocated in the poem, to > just that extent does the poem wage peace, to just that extent does the poem > gain access to clarity, the virtue, and the immediacy (meditation is > aggression) of that peace. [38] > - > Whether I write or not, the world continues the effortless composition of > itself, as anyone, including myself, can see. No, there?s no need of another > poem from me, but writing is, despite all my self-righteous disclaimers, a > pleasure I prefer to enjoy rather than to remember. And when my writing is > altogether familiar, altogether too easy (the words ?easy? and ?effortless? > are, I insist, not synonyms) and too entirely intact from the very > beginning, I get no pleasure at all. I might as well be emptying the > dishwasher, as I do first-thing every morning half-asleep. A poet writes > when he?s awake, and writer?s block is merely sleep-writing, an absence by > day and an imposture in its dream. [69] > - > And so, via such stints of translation, the pleasures of writing have time > and again returned to me. With ears for a new sound, with eyes rinsed clear > of shady habit, I could hear a line I?d never written and see a beauty > further than I?d known. I suppose that ?s all that a new poem is, to a poet: > a cadence that was always on the wind but only just now heard as a music; an > object always to hand but only just now lifted into the sunshine where it > shows the eye a shape and shapeliness it had not seen to use. [71] > - > Light lily lily light light lily light > > Imagically > Lightli ly > > Outline stones for the wind > > All creatures come > To mind to oneness > > Light first and last, and lilies and lights along the way. The alleyway, > in *just* that way and j*ust* that order, pleasured my eyes. Of course it > was a happiness to say. ?Only the lull I like? wrote Whitman. If I can see > it, it must be moving; and when I see it, I am moving too. The lull is not a > pause. The lull is an ensemble underway, and as I found, anything I might > say would be an adverb. [157] > > Donald Revell, *The Art of Attention* (Graywolf Press, 2007) > https://www.graywolfpress.org/component/page,shop.flypage/category_id,bf8108ff1901b3e2f2376627dd7f8c0d/product_id,232/option,com_phpshop/ > > > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 02:42:11 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:42:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists In-Reply-To: <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A good portrait and a good poem. Congratulations to both, On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > > Greetings, > > I have a poem in the latest Poets and Artists! Issue #25 is a > collabororation between artists and poets on the theme of self portrait. > > Free online or order a print copy. > > Here are the details. > > Poets and Artists Issue #25 is available online and in print: > http://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/201978 > Here's the link to my collaboration with artist Pauline Aubey: > http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1sevs/PoetsArtistsC > ollabor/resources/26.htm > Thanks, > > Millicent > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 05:47:50 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 02:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi NewPo, Well, so, um, here's?why I've been lurking so much?and just peeking my head in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of?Tuesday, and?got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. So there you have it.... Amicalement, Alex? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 2 09:08:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:08:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists In-Reply-To: <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEF3D3B8E14D2-1654-3C44@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Mill. Sounds like an interesting magazine and somehow I never encountered it until the the 25th issue. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 1, 2011 11:52 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists Greetings, I have a poem in the latest Poets and Artists! Issue #25 is a collabororation between artists and poets on the theme of self portrait. Free online or order a print copy. Here are the details. Poets and Artists Issue #25 is available online and in print: http://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/201978 Here's the link to my collaboration with artist Pauline Aubey: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1sevs/PoetsArtistsCollabor/resources/26.htm Thanks, Millicent _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 2 09:13:47 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:13:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net><8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDEF3E0A52BB8F-1654-3D10@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Alex, this list is hosted at Virginia Tech. If it goes down maybe you can go over kick the server for me. What was the title of you dissertation? And good luck with the big transition. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 5:47 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Hi NewPo, Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and just peeking my head in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of Tuesday, and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. So there you have it.... Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Thu Jun 2 09:16:44 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:16:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <8CDEF3E0A52BB8F-1654-3D10@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net><8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com>, <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, <8CDEF3E0A52BB8F-1654-3D10@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Congrats Alex! Vachement bien! As the French teenagers I know would say-- Sheila To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 09:13:47 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Alex, this list is hosted at Virginia Tech. If it goes down maybe you can go over kick the server for me. What was the title of you dissertation? And good luck with the big transition. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 5:47 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Hi NewPo, Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and just peeking my head in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of Tuesday, and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. So there you have it.... Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Jun 2 09:44:40 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 09:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists In-Reply-To: <8CDEF3D3B8E14D2-1654-3C44@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net><8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> <8CDEF3D3B8E14D2-1654-3C44@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDEF425AEE804F-22AC-273CB@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> I really like the publication. Forget my poem, flip through the whole issue. Some really nice artwork and poetry. I like F Scott Hess's painting and Marie-Elizabeth Mali's poem. It's free online to boot! mill -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 6:08 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Mill. Sounds like an interesting magazine and somehow I never encountered it until the the 25th issue. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 1, 2011 11:52 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists Greetings, I have a poem in the latest Poets and Artists! Issue #25 is a collabororation between artists and poets on the theme of self portrait. Free online or order a print copy. Here are the details. Poets and Artists Issue #25 is available online and in print: http://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/201978 Here's the link to my collaboration with artist Pauline Aubey: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1sevs/PoetsArtistsCollabor/resources/26.htm Thanks, Millicent _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 10:08:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists In-Reply-To: <8CDEF425AEE804F-22AC-273CB@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net><4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net><8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> <8CDEF3D3B8E14D2-1654-3C44@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> <8CDEF425AEE804F-22AC-273CB@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <935397.23149.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i was in that thing?in 2009, September, I believe. responded to a Goodreads promo. Billy Colllins was on the cover. Lots of recongnizable names between the covers. Since I don't care for Collins, I merely browsed through the issue. ________________________________ From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 9:44:40 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists I really like the publication.? Forget my poem, flip through the whole issue. Some really nice artwork and poetry. I like F Scott Hess's painting and Marie-Elizabeth Mali's poem.? It's free online to boot! mill ? ? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 6:08 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Mill. Sounds like an interesting magazine and somehow I never encountered it until the the?25th issue. Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 1, 2011 11:52 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem in Poets and Artists Greetings, I have a poem in the latest Poets and Artists!? Issue #25 is a collabororation between artists and poets on the theme of self portrait. Free online or order a print copy. Here are the details. Poets and Artists Issue #25 is available online and in print: http://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/201978 ???????? Here's the link to my collaboration with artist Pauline Aubey: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1sevs/PoetsArtistsCollabor/resources/26.htm Thanks, ? Millicent _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 10:15:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem Message-ID: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> how can i improve this thing? Border Patrol in Vegas ? ? So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, ? or even that other wop named Dino. ? What does he know about craps? Or fat jack cats with their traps? ? He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad from the gringo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jun 2 10:19:49 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:19:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Message-ID: <18106286.1307024389853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 2 11:26:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:26:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His Continued Influence on Poets In-Reply-To: <1105244779242.1102260488940.5131.4.17110516@scheduler> References: <1105244779242.1102260488940.5131.4.17110516@scheduler> Message-ID: <8CDEF508B77FBC2-1654-5D4A@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> David Graham mentioned this anthology recently. Discount code below: Vassilis Zambaras claims to have the shortest poem in the book: http://vazambam.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-there-doctor-in-house.html -----Original Message----- From: University of Iowa Press To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 11:07 am Subject: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His Continued Influence on Poets Having trouble viewing this email? Click here You're receiving this email because of your relationship with University of Iowa Press. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. To ensure that you continue to receive emails from us, add allison-means at uiowa.edu to your address book today. You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our emails. Visiting Dr. Williams Regular Price: $24.95 Sale Price: $18.75 Greetings, The University of Iowa Press is proud to present our newest poetry anthology, Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life and Work of William Carlos Williams. If you would like any additional information or a review copy, please feel free to contact me. Sincerely, Allison Means University of Iowa Press Visiting Dr. Williams Poems Inspired by the Life and Work of William Carlos Williams edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro "Visiting Dr. Williams is a rich, entertaining gathering of dedications, imitations, corrections, revisions, homages, and send-ups--all provoked by the poet with the famous white chickens who brought American poetry back home to roost. You cannot visit William Carlos Williams too often; remember he made house calls and would have gladly visited us."--Billy Collins Save 25% To save, please go to our website and visit the Visiting Dr. Williams page, and use promo code COGH11. This is case sensitive, so be sure to make those letters capital! This coupon is transferable; please feel free to forward this message to family, friends, and colleagues. Offer Expires: September 2, 2011 Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by allison-means at uiowa.edu | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. University of Iowa Press | 119 West Park Road | 100 Kuhl House | Iowa City | IA | 52242 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 12:01:32 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:01:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <18106286.1307024389853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18106286.1307024389853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any doubts on you being brilliant, cheers, Anny On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, wrote: > Wow! Congratulations! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Dickow > Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Hi NewPo, > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and just peeking my head > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of Tuesday, > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > So there you have it.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 15:09:58 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: References: <18106286.1307024389853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46443.37620.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you Anny! And to all for the kind words. I'd be happy to kick the server if need be?;) Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any doubts on you being brilliant, cheers, Anny On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, wrote: Wow! Congratulations! > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Alexander Dickow >> >>Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news >> >> >>Hi NewPo, >>Well, so, um, here's?why I've been lurking so much?and just peeking my head in >>from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of?Tuesday, >>and?got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in >>Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. >>So there you have it.... >>Amicalement, >>Alex? >>? >>www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >>les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >>merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> >> >> >>? >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 15:51:47 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:51:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <46443.37620.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <18106286.1307024389853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46443.37620.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's an old academic joke about one's first job. John X, a newly minted Ph.D., is tragically killed after receiving his diploma. At the pearly gates, Saint Whatever tells John that the policy is that the new arrival at The Threshold of Thresholds must spend one day in Hell and then one day in Heaven before being asked to make up his or her mind. John protests that he already knows what he wants (Heaven) but rules are rules, etc. So John goes to Hell for one day. There he finds a graceful and pristine campus extending, it seems, to the horizon. The chair of the department of his field greets him, introduces him to the fellow faculty (all of whom have read and admire John's dissertation), dines him at the mansion of a faculty club's mansion, etc. John leaves in a glow. The next day John visits Heaven. Even though it is nice (harps, milk-and-honey, harmonious singing, and an ethereal shine on everything) it is also boring. *Very, very boring!* John returns to Saint Whatever and apologetically picks Hell . . . where he is sent immediately. But this time Hell seems to be a landscape of smoldering ash heaps, steaming septic sludge, and dessicated vegetation. John spots the chair of his department who now seems a figure out of Beckett in a torn greatcoat shovelling piles of ashes and fecal matter from smaller into larger piles. John runs to the chair asking, almost hysterically, what has happened. The chair, sweat covered and stinking, barely pauses and says, "John, yesterday your were a job candidate. Today you're part of the faculty. Grab a shovel." (Congratulations anyway, Alex, and welcome to the profession.) On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Thank you Anny! And to all for the kind words. I'd be happy to kick the > server if need be ;) > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any doubts on you > being brilliant, > cheers, Anny > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, wrote: > >> Wow! Congratulations! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexander Dickow >> Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news >> >> Hi NewPo, >> Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and just peeking my >> head in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as >> of Tuesday, and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss >> defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. >> So there you have it.... >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:55:49 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:55:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <32463341.1306769256596.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4DE3CD30.60000@nut-n-but.net> <4DE4F49B.804@nut-n-but.net> <8CDEE8B12EEEB7D-162C-3F596@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> <576714.90451.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What Skip said, Alex--every stinkin' word of it. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hi NewPo, > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and just peeking my head > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation at last, as of Tuesday, > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss defense in > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > So there you have it.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 3 09:51:21 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:51:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian Gazette piece) Message-ID: <8CDF00C744558E4-15F8-4E9B@Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) Impact of war on language (127) By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss these ?shameful? matters with a frankness that sets them apart from their contemporaries. Robert Lowell and his students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia Plath, ??forced a mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. The post-confessional poetry of the seventies and eighties continued to extrapolate on the themes that the confessional movement pioneered. Examples of post-confessional poems include Robert Pinsky?s collection History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet (1983), and Donald Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 09:50:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 06:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His Continued Influence on Poets In-Reply-To: <8CDEF508B77FBC2-1654-5D4A@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> References: <1105244779242.1102260488940.5131.4.17110516@scheduler> <8CDEF508B77FBC2-1654-5D4A@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <34754.26511.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> is the Zambaras poem shorter than my -- Clock i exist. now what? ... ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 11:26:14 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His Continued Influence on Poets David Graham?mentioned this anthology recently. Discount code below: Vassilis Zambaras claims to have the shortest poem in the book: http://vazambam.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-there-doctor-in-house.html -----Original Message----- From: University of Iowa Press To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 11:07 am Subject: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His Continued Influence on Poets Having trouble viewing this email? Click here You're receiving this email because of your relationship with University of Iowa Press. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. To ensure that you continue to receive emails from us, add allison-means at uiowa.edu to your address book today. You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our emails. Visiting Dr. Williams Regular Price: $24.95 Sale Price: $18.75 Greetings, The University of Iowa Press is proud to present our newest poetry anthology, Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life and Work of William Carlos Williams. If you would like any additional information or a review copy, please feel free to contact me. Sincerely, Allison Means University of Iowa Press ?Visiting Dr. Williams?Poems Inspired by the Life and Work ofWilliam Carlos Williams edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro "Visiting Dr. Williams is a rich, entertaining gathering of dedications, imitations, corrections, revisions, homages, and send-ups--all provoked by the poet with the famous white chickens who brought American poetry back home to roost. You cannot visit William Carlos Williams too often; remember he made house calls and would have gladly visited us."--Billy Collins Save 25% To save, please go to our website and visit the Visiting Dr. Williams page, and use promo code COGH11. This is case sensitive, so be sure to make those letters capital! This coupon is transferable; please feel free to forward this message to family, friends, and colleagues. Offer Expires: September 2, 2011 Forward email This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com by allison-means at uiowa.edu | ? Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. University of Iowa Press| 119 West Park Road| 100 Kuhl House| Iowa City| IA| 52242 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 10:01:20 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem In-Reply-To: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> maybe the last line needed to be shorter. & a new title.? ??? Borders ? ? So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, ? Or even that other wop named Dino. ? What does he know about craps? Or fat jack cats with their traps? ? He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem how can i improve this thing? Border Patrol in Vegas ? ? So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, ? or even that other wop named Dino. ? What does he know about craps? Or fat jack cats with their traps? ? He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad from the gringo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 10:06:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian Gazette piece) In-Reply-To: <8CDF00C744558E4-15F8-4E9B@Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF00C744558E4-15F8-4E9B@Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <983240.56281.qm@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> what impressed me about the article was the fact that it came from an Egyptian paper. maybe poetry is read. i'm still not convinced that anyone other than poets read poems, but i could be wrong. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 9:51:21 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian Gazette piece) http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) Impact of war on language (127) By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM ?It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss these ?shameful? matters with a frankness that sets them apart from their contemporaries. Robert Lowell and his students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia Plath, ??forced a mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. ? ????? The post-confessional poetry of the seventies and eighties continued to extrapolate on the themes that the confessional movement pioneered. ?????? Examples of post-confessional poems include Robert Pinsky?s collection History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet (1983), and Donald Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 10:13:45 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem In-Reply-To: <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <165691.5339.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> wops originally meant ... without papers ... ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 10:01:20 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem maybe the last line (of previous post )?needed to be shorter. & a new title.? ??? Borders ? ? So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, ? Or even that other wop named Dino. ? What does he know about craps? Or fat jack cats with their traps? ? He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem how can i improve this thing? Border Patrol in Vegas ? ? So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, ? or even that other wop named Dino. ? What does he know about craps? Or fat jack cats with their traps? ? He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad from the gringo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 12:10:47 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 12:10:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem In-Reply-To: <165691.5339.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <165691.5339.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Without papers" as an origin for the slur "wop" is one of those folk etymologies (like For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge) that is not historical. See http://www.billcasselman.com/wording_room/wop.htm From seamascain at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 14:16:58 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:16:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The death of Leonora Carrington Message-ID: _____________________________________ Now I say farewell to an old friend ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/leonora-carrington-surrealist-painter-and-sculptor-who-found-her-artistic-and-spiritual-home-in-mexico-2290181.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13569266 Yours for a real and true multi-dimensional freedom, S?amas Cain http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain _____________________________________ From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 15:01:34 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem In-Reply-To: References: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <165691.5339.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <548297.63642.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> A plausible source of the word wop is the Spanish adjective guapo, pronounced approximately 'wopo' or 'hwopo,' depending on dialect. didn't know that. in any event, i've been trying my hand at pseudo limericks. for whatever reason ( going light, while meaning something serious ),?they seem useful to me. ? ________________________________ From: David Weinstock To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 12:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem "Without papers" as an origin for the slur "wop" is one of those folk etymologies (like For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge) that is not historical. See http://www.billcasselman.com/wording_room/wop.htm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Fri Jun 3 15:20:17 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 15:20:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The death of Leonora Carrington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110603192017.8GPWO.250983.root@hrndva-web21-z01> Sleep within the dreams of the birds of the cats of the unicorns--all the onlookers cue'd as participaants until all fragments epitaphs inscribed vellum slips faint after 100 years live at the tip of the worm's tail a sticky brushstroke G. E. Schwartz > > > Now I say farewell to an old friend ... > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/leonora-carrington-surrealist-painter-and-sculptor-who-found-her-artistic-and-spiritual-home-in-mexico-2290181.html > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13569266 > > Yours for a real and true > > multi-dimensional freedom, > > S?amas Cain > http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain > > _____________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From editor at pavementsaw.org Sat Jun 4 00:21:02 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 21:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <152022.41581.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Congrats Alex, let me know if you head up this direction-- Skip, the joke version I heard was for adjuncting. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts --- On Fri, 6/3/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 4:00 PM > Send New-Poetry mailing list > submissions to > ??? new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > ??? new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: Alex's (big) news (Anny > Ballardini) > ???2. Re: Alex's (big) news (Alexander > Dickow) > ???3. Re: Alex's (big) news (Skip Fox) > ???4. Re: Alex's (big) news (Halvard > Johnson) > ???5. Confessional Poetics (Egyptian Gazette > piece) (jforjames at aol.com) > ???6. Re: Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: > Celebrate His > ? ? ? Continued Influence on Poets (stephen > russell) > ???7. Re: wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem (stephen russell) > ???8. Re: Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > Gazette piece) > ? ? ? (stephen russell) > ???9. Re: wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem (stephen russell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:01:32 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any > doubts on you > being brilliant, > cheers, Anny > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > wrote: > > > Wow! Congratulations! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alexander Dickow > > Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > > > Hi NewPo, > > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and > just peeking my head > > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > at last, as of Tuesday, > > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA > Tech. Diss defense in > > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > > So there you have it.... > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:09:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Alexander Dickow > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > Message-ID: <46443.37620.qm at web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you Anny! And to all for the kind words. I'd be happy > to kick the server > if need be?;) > Amicalement, > Alex > ? > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any > doubts on you being > brilliant, > cheers, Anny > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > wrote: > > Wow! Congratulations! > > > >-----Original Message----- > >>From: Alexander Dickow > >> > >>Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > >>To: NewPoetry List > >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > >> > >> > >>Hi NewPo, > >>Well, so, um, here's?why I've been lurking so > much?and just peeking my head in > >>from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > at last, as of?Tuesday, > >>and?got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at > VA Tech. Diss defense in > >>Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > >>So there you have it.... > >>Amicalement, > >>Alex? > >>? > >>www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> > >>les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >>merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>? > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:51:47 -0500 > From: Skip Fox > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > There's an old academic joke about one's first job. > > John X, a newly minted Ph.D., is tragically killed after > receiving his > diploma. At the pearly gates, Saint Whatever tells John > that the policy is > that the new arrival at The Threshold of Thresholds must > spend one day in > Hell and then one day in Heaven before being asked to make > up his or her > mind. John protests that he already knows what he wants > (Heaven) but rules > are rules, etc. > > So John goes to Hell for one day. There he finds a graceful > and pristine > campus extending, it seems, to the horizon. The chair of > the department of > his field greets him, introduces him to the fellow faculty > (all of whom have > read and admire John's dissertation), dines him at the > mansion of a faculty > club's mansion, etc. John leaves in a glow. > > The next day John visits Heaven. Even though it is nice > (harps, > milk-and-honey, harmonious singing, and an ethereal shine > on everything) it > is also boring. *Very, very boring!* > > John returns to Saint Whatever and apologetically picks > Hell? . . . where he > is sent immediately. > > But this time Hell seems to be a landscape of smoldering > ash heaps, steaming > septic sludge, and dessicated vegetation. John spots the > chair of his > department who now seems a figure out of Beckett in a torn > greatcoat > shovelling piles of ashes and fecal matter from smaller > into larger piles. > > John runs to the chair asking, almost hysterically, what > has happened. > > The chair, sweat covered and stinking, barely pauses and > says, "John, > yesterday your were a job candidate. Today you're part of > the faculty. Grab > a shovel." > > (Congratulations anyway, Alex, and welcome to the > profession.) > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > >???Thank you Anny! And to all for the > kind words. I'd be happy to kick the > > server if need be ;) > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > >? ------------------------------ > > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > *To:* NewPoetry List > > *Sent:* Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody > had any doubts on you > > being brilliant, > > cheers, Anny > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > wrote: > > > >> Wow! Congratulations! > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Alexander Dickow > >> Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > >> To: NewPoetry List > >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > >> > >>? Hi NewPo, > >> Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much > and just peeking my > >> head in from time to time. Just finished the > dissertation at last, as > >> of Tuesday, and got a position in the Foreign > Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss > >> defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in > August. > >> So there you have it.... > >> Amicalement, > >> Alex > >> > >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> > >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > birth to a dancing > > star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > Giovenale > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:55:49 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > What Skip said, Alex--every stinkin' word of it. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; > **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > > Hi NewPo, > > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and > just peeking my head > > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > at last, as of Tuesday, > > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA > Tech. Diss defense in > > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > > So there you have it.... > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:51:21 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > Gazette piece) > Message-ID: <8CDF00C744558E4-15F8-4E9B at Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) > Impact of war on language (127) > By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette > Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM > > It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss > these ?shameful? matters with a frankness that sets them > apart from their contemporaries. Robert Lowell and his > students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia Plath, > ??forced a mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. > > > ? ? ? The post-confessional poetry of the > seventies and eighties continued to extrapolate on the > themes that the confessional movement pioneered. > ? ? ???Examples of > post-confessional poems include Robert Pinsky?s collection > History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet > (1983), and Donald Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 06:50:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams > Fans: Celebrate > ??? His??? Continued > Influence on Poets > Message-ID: <34754.26511.qm at web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > is the Zambaras poem shorter than my -- > > > Clock > > i exist. > now what? ... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 11:26:14 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: > Celebrate His Continued > Influence on Poets > > David Graham?mentioned this anthology recently. Discount > code below: > > Vassilis Zambaras claims to have the shortest poem in the > book: > http://vazambam.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-there-doctor-in-house.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: University of Iowa Press > To: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 11:07 am > Subject: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His > Continued Influence on > Poets > > > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here? > You're receiving this email because of your relationship > with University of Iowa > Press. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving > email from us. To > ensure that you continue to receive emails from us, add allison-means at uiowa.edu > > to your address book today. > > > You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our > emails. > > > Visiting Dr. Williams > > > Regular Price: $24.95 > Sale Price: $18.75 > > > ???Greetings, > > The University of Iowa Press is proud to present our newest > poetry anthology, > Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life and Work > of William Carlos > Williams. If you would like any additional information or a > review copy, please > feel free to contact me. > > Sincerely, > > Allison Means > University of Iowa Press > ? > ?Visiting Dr. Williams?Poems Inspired by the Life and Work > ofWilliam Carlos > Williams > edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro > > > "Visiting Dr. Williams is a rich, entertaining gathering of > dedications, > imitations, corrections, revisions, homages, and > send-ups--all provoked by the > poet with the famous white chickens who brought American > poetry back home to > roost. You cannot visit William Carlos Williams too often; > remember he made > house calls and would have gladly visited us."--Billy > Collins > ??? > Save 25% To save, please go to our website and visit the > Visiting Dr. Williams > page, and use promo code COGH11. This is case sensitive, so > be sure to make > those letters capital! This coupon is transferable; please > feel free to forward > this message to family, friends, and colleagues. > > Offer Expires: September 2, 2011? ??? > Forward email > ? ? > This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com > by allison-means at uiowa.edu > | ? > Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with > SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy > Policy. > > University of Iowa Press| 119 West Park Road| 100 Kuhl > House| Iowa City| IA| > 52242? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:01:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem > Message-ID: <665404.48189.qm at web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > maybe the last line needed to be shorter. > & a new title.? > > ??? > Borders > ? > ? > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > ? > Or even that other wop named Dino. > ? > What does he know about craps? > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > ? > He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem > > > how can i improve this thing? > > > Border Patrol in Vegas > ? > ? > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > ? > or even that other wop named Dino. > ? > What does he know about craps? > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > ? > He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad > from the gringo. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:06:13 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > Gazette > ??? piece) > Message-ID: <983240.56281.qm at web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > what impressed me about the article was the fact that it > came from an Egyptian > paper. > maybe poetry is read. i'm still not convinced that anyone > other than poets read > poems, but i could be wrong. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 9:51:21 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > Gazette piece) > > http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) > > Impact of war on language (127) > By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette > Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM > > ?It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss > these ?shameful? matters > with a frankness that sets them apart from their > contemporaries. Robert Lowell > and his students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia > Plath, ??forced a > mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. > > ? > ????? The post-confessional poetry of the seventies and > eighties continued to > extrapolate on the themes that the confessional movement > pioneered. > > ?????? Examples of post-confessional poems include Robert > Pinsky?s collection > History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet > (1983), and Donald > Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:13:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem > Message-ID: <165691.5339.qm at web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > wops originally meant ... without papers ... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 10:01:20 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem > > > maybe the last line (of previous post )?needed to be > shorter. > & a new title.? > > ??? > Borders > ? > ? > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > ? > Or even that other wop named Dino. > ? > What does he know about craps? > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > ? > He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > poem > > > how can i improve this thing? > > > Border Patrol in Vegas > ? > ? > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > ? > or even that other wop named Dino. > ? > What does he know about craps? > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > ? > He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad > from the gringo. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3 > ***************************************** > From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 06:53:14 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 05:53:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <152022.41581.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <152022.41581.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David (re: the old academic joke), Yes. Adjunts have the right to it, I'd not contest. Though it suits young profs too, it fits *them* best. On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:21 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Congrats Alex, let me know if you head up this direction-- > > Skip, the joke version I heard was for adjuncting. > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu < > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu> wrote: > > > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu < > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3 > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 4:00 PM > > Send New-Poetry mailing list > > submissions to > > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > > to > > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > specific > > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Alex's (big) news (Anny > > Ballardini) > > 2. Re: Alex's (big) news (Alexander > > Dickow) > > 3. Re: Alex's (big) news (Skip Fox) > > 4. Re: Alex's (big) news (Halvard > > Johnson) > > 5. Confessional Poetics (Egyptian Gazette > > piece) (jforjames at aol.com) > > 6. Re: Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: > > Celebrate His > > Continued Influence on Poets (stephen > > russell) > > 7. Re: wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem (stephen russell) > > 8. Re: Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > > Gazette piece) > > (stephen russell) > > 9. Re: wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem (stephen russell) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:01:32 +0200 > > From: Anny Ballardini > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any > > doubts on you > > being brilliant, > > cheers, Anny > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > > wrote: > > > > > Wow! Congratulations! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Alexander Dickow > > > Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > > > To: NewPoetry List > > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > > > > > Hi NewPo, > > > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and > > just peeking my head > > > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > > at last, as of Tuesday, > > > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA > > Tech. Diss defense in > > > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > > > So there you have it.... > > > Amicalement, > > > Alex > > > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > > to a dancing > > star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110602/45b85864/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:09:58 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Alexander Dickow > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Message-ID: <46443.37620.qm at web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Thank you Anny! And to all for the kind words. I'd be happy > > to kick the server > > if need be?;) > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > ? > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Anny Ballardini > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody had any > > doubts on you being > > brilliant, > > cheers, Anny > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > > wrote: > > > > Wow! Congratulations! > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >>From: Alexander Dickow > > >> > > >>Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > > >>To: NewPoetry List > > >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > >> > > >> > > >>Hi NewPo, > > >>Well, so, um, here's?why I've been lurking so > > much?and just peeking my head in > > >>from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > > at last, as of?Tuesday, > > >>and?got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at > > VA Tech. Diss defense in > > >>Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > > >>So there you have it.... > > >>Amicalement, > > >>Alex? > > >>? > > >>www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > >> > > >>les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > >>merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>? > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > > to a dancing star! > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110602/efa3ee7b/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:51:47 -0500 > > From: Skip Fox > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > There's an old academic joke about one's first job. > > > > John X, a newly minted Ph.D., is tragically killed after > > receiving his > > diploma. At the pearly gates, Saint Whatever tells John > > that the policy is > > that the new arrival at The Threshold of Thresholds must > > spend one day in > > Hell and then one day in Heaven before being asked to make > > up his or her > > mind. John protests that he already knows what he wants > > (Heaven) but rules > > are rules, etc. > > > > So John goes to Hell for one day. There he finds a graceful > > and pristine > > campus extending, it seems, to the horizon. The chair of > > the department of > > his field greets him, introduces him to the fellow faculty > > (all of whom have > > read and admire John's dissertation), dines him at the > > mansion of a faculty > > club's mansion, etc. John leaves in a glow. > > > > The next day John visits Heaven. Even though it is nice > > (harps, > > milk-and-honey, harmonious singing, and an ethereal shine > > on everything) it > > is also boring. *Very, very boring!* > > > > John returns to Saint Whatever and apologetically picks > > Hell . . . where he > > is sent immediately. > > > > But this time Hell seems to be a landscape of smoldering > > ash heaps, steaming > > septic sludge, and dessicated vegetation. John spots the > > chair of his > > department who now seems a figure out of Beckett in a torn > > greatcoat > > shovelling piles of ashes and fecal matter from smaller > > into larger piles. > > > > John runs to the chair asking, almost hysterically, what > > has happened. > > > > The chair, sweat covered and stinking, barely pauses and > > says, "John, > > yesterday your were a job candidate. Today you're part of > > the faculty. Grab > > a shovel." > > > > (Congratulations anyway, Alex, and welcome to the > > profession.) > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Alexander Dickow >wrote: > > > > > Thank you Anny! And to all for the > > kind words. I'd be happy to kick the > > > server if need be ;) > > > Amicalement, > > > Alex > > > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > > *To:* NewPoetry List > > > *Sent:* Thu, June 2, 2011 6:01:32 PM > > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > > > > > Yes, great and good news, although, I think, nobody > > had any doubts on you > > > being brilliant, > > > cheers, Anny > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, > > wrote: > > > > > >> Wow! Congratulations! > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Alexander Dickow > > >> Sent: Jun 2, 2011 5:47 AM > > >> To: NewPoetry List > > >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > >> > > >> Hi NewPo, > > >> Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much > > and just peeking my > > >> head in from time to time. Just finished the > > dissertation at last, as > > >> of Tuesday, and got a position in the Foreign > > Languages dpt at VA Tech. Diss > > >> defense in Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in > > August. > > >> So there you have it.... > > >> Amicalement, > > >> Alex > > >> > > >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > >> > > >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> New-Poetry mailing list > > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Anny Ballardini > > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > > birth to a dancing > > > star! > > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > > > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > > > Giovenale > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110602/63cefa3c/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:55:49 -0500 > > From: Halvard Johnson > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > What Skip said, Alex--every stinkin' word of it. > > > > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > > > > --David Shields > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > *Mainly Black< > https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1i_JGJ_FqQldEnUq7cwjV8giYykz_tsGbTkC2EkAP3IM&hl=en&pli=1# > > > > , **Obras P?blicas< > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > > > > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > > Sonnets< > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > > > ;* > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > > Clones< > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > > > ; **Tango Bouquet< > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > ; **Theory of Harmony< > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > > > > ; * > > ***Rapsodie espagnole< > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > > > > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > > Subway< > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > > > > ; **The Sonnet Project< > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > > > > ; * > > ***G(e)nome ; > > **Winter > > Journey ; > > **Eclipse > > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan < > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html>; > > * > > *Transparencies & Projections < > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html> > > * > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Alexander Dickow >wrote: > > > > > Hi NewPo, > > > Well, so, um, here's why I've been lurking so much and > > just peeking my head > > > in from time to time. Just finished the dissertation > > at last, as of Tuesday, > > > and got a position in the Foreign Languages dpt at VA > > Tech. Diss defense in > > > Paris in July, moving to Blacksburg in August. > > > So there you have it.... > > > Amicalement, > > > Alex > > > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110602/72f3e235/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:51:21 -0400 > > From: jforjames at aol.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > > Gazette piece) > > Message-ID: <8CDF00C744558E4-15F8-4E9B at Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > > > http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) > > Impact of war on language (127) > > By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette > > Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM > > > > It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss > > these ?shameful? matters with a frankness that sets them > > apart from their contemporaries. Robert Lowell and his > > students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia Plath, > > ??forced a mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. > > > > > > The post-confessional poetry of the > > seventies and eighties continued to extrapolate on the > > themes that the confessional movement pioneered. > > Examples of > > post-confessional poems include Robert Pinsky?s collection > > History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet > > (1983), and Donald Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110603/4efc9607/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 06:50:04 -0700 (PDT) > > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams > > Fans: Celebrate > > His Continued > > Influence on Poets > > Message-ID: <34754.26511.qm at web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > is the Zambaras poem shorter than my -- > > > > > > Clock > > > > i exist. > > now what? ... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 11:26:14 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: William Carlos Williams Fans: > > Celebrate His Continued > > Influence on Poets > > > > David Graham?mentioned this anthology recently. Discount > > code below: > > > > Vassilis Zambaras claims to have the shortest poem in the > > book: > > http://vazambam.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-there-doctor-in-house.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: University of Iowa Press > > To: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 11:07 am > > Subject: William Carlos Williams Fans: Celebrate His > > Continued Influence on > > Poets > > > > > > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here > > You're receiving this email because of your relationship > > with University of Iowa > > Press. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving > > email from us. To > > ensure that you continue to receive emails from us, add > allison-means at uiowa.edu > > > > to your address book today. > > > > > > You may unsubscribe if you no longer wish to receive our > > emails. > > > > > > Visiting Dr. Williams > > > > > > Regular Price: $24.95 > > Sale Price: $18.75 > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > The University of Iowa Press is proud to present our newest > > poetry anthology, > > Visiting Dr. Williams: Poems Inspired by the Life and Work > > of William Carlos > > Williams. If you would like any additional information or a > > review copy, please > > feel free to contact me. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Allison Means > > University of Iowa Press > > > > ?Visiting Dr. Williams?Poems Inspired by the Life and Work > > ofWilliam Carlos > > Williams > > edited by Sheila Coghill & Thom Tammaro > > > > > > "Visiting Dr. Williams is a rich, entertaining gathering of > > dedications, > > imitations, corrections, revisions, homages, and > > send-ups--all provoked by the > > poet with the famous white chickens who brought American > > poetry back home to > > roost. You cannot visit William Carlos Williams too often; > > remember he made > > house calls and would have gladly visited us."--Billy > > Collins > > > > Save 25% To save, please go to our website and visit the > > Visiting Dr. Williams > > page, and use promo code COGH11. This is case sensitive, so > > be sure to make > > those letters capital! This coupon is transferable; please > > feel free to forward > > this message to family, friends, and colleagues. > > > > Offer Expires: September 2, 2011 > > Forward email > > > > This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com > > by allison-means at uiowa.edu > > | ? > > Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with > > SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy > > Policy. > > > > University of Iowa Press| 119 West Park Road| 100 Kuhl > > House| Iowa City| IA| > > 52242 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110603/345c9311/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:01:20 -0700 (PDT) > > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem > > Message-ID: <665404.48189.qm at web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > maybe the last line needed to be shorter. > > & a new title.? > > > > ??? > > Borders > > ? > > ? > > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > > ? > > Or even that other wop named Dino. > > ? > > What does he know about craps? > > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > > ? > > He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: stephen russell > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem > > > > > > how can i improve this thing? > > > > > > Border Patrol in Vegas > > ? > > ? > > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > > ? > > or even that other wop named Dino. > > ? > > What does he know about craps? > > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > > ? > > He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad > > from the gringo. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110603/f5cb48af/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:06:13 -0700 (PDT) > > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > > Gazette > > piece) > > Message-ID: <983240.56281.qm at web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > what impressed me about the article was the fact that it > > came from an Egyptian > > paper. > > maybe poetry is read. i'm still not convinced that anyone > > other than poets read > > poems, but i could be wrong. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 9:51:21 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Confessional Poetics (Egyptian > > Gazette piece) > > > > > http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18712&title=Impact%20of%20war%20on%20language%20(127) > > > > Impact of war on language (127) > > By Sami El-Shahed - The Egyptian Gazette > > Monday, May 30, 2011 06:39:51 PM > > > > ?It was the confessional poets? willingness to discuss > > these ?shameful? matters > > with a frankness that sets them apart from their > > contemporaries. Robert Lowell > > and his students W.D. Snodgrass, Anne Sexton, and Sylvia > > Plath, ??forced a > > mutation of critical standards??, Rosenthal said. > > > > ? > > ????? The post-confessional poetry of the seventies and > > eighties continued to > > extrapolate on the themes that the confessional movement > > pioneered. > > > > ?????? Examples of post-confessional poems include Robert > > Pinsky?s collection > > History of My Heart (1984), Bill Knott?s poem The Closet > > (1983), and Donald > > Hall?s Kicking the Leaves (1978). > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110603/36a595fa/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:13:45 -0700 (PDT) > > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem > > Message-ID: <165691.5339.qm at web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > wops originally meant ... without papers ... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: stephen russell > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 10:01:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem > > > > > > maybe the last line (of previous post )?needed to be > > shorter. > > & a new title.? > > > > ??? > > Borders > > ? > > ? > > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > > ? > > Or even that other wop named Dino. > > ? > > What does he know about craps? > > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > > ? > > He's?a campesino, not a?gringo. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: stephen russell > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:15:26 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little > > poem > > > > > > how can i improve this thing? > > > > > > Border Patrol in Vegas > > ? > > ? > > So there goes Johnny Rodriquez into the Grand Casino, > > He could give a shit about Sinatra or Sammy, > > ? > > or even that other wop named Dino. > > ? > > What does he know about craps? > > Or fat jack cats with their traps? > > ? > > He's a Peruvian campesino, guarding his hard earned wad > > from the gringo. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110603/07892615/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3 > > ***************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 15:04:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 14:04:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frank Parker's at the wheel Message-ID: Just saying, June is well under way, and Frank Parker is at the wheel of Truck. http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/ "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 15:17:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 12:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem In-Reply-To: <548297.63642.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <571802.98380.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <665404.48189.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <165691.5339.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <548297.63642.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <223718.46762.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> all this for a simple throw away limerick -- Steve, Wop make no sense to this since Dino and Sinatra have papers, but they're Italian. Please you placed them out of order for you to use "other wop". You'd have to say Sammy, Sinatra and that other wop Dino. Of course, I've paraphrased for simplicity. I like the longer last line because it makes more sense. But your reader has to know what campesino means in relation to gringo. Plus, ain't the wops gringos? Nothing I've ever seen says that Italians aren't white people. Actually, I did hear some shit like that when I watch an episode of that stupid Jersey Shore. Absurd thought, though. And: I'd change this from 'Or fat jack cats with their traps?' to 'Or fat cats with their traps?' Jack isn't necessary to the rhythm. You could take out "hard earned" too. Have you noticed all the significant short words you've used: wop-crap-trap-wad ? Find more. Change J Rod "into" the Grand Casino to 'in' the GC. So that he's already inside prancing. I'd even cut 'there goes' to "there's". One syllable words are harder, masculine, if you will. More noir. Brandon ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 3:01:34 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem A plausible source of the word wop is the Spanish adjective guapo, pronounced approximately 'wopo' or 'hwopo,' depending on dialect. didn't know that. in any event, i've been trying my hand at pseudo limericks. for whatever reason ( going light, while meaning something serious ), they seem useful to me. ________________________________ From: David Weinstock To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 12:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] wops/gringos/ my offensive little poem "Without papers" as an origin for the slur "wop" is one of those folk etymologies (like For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge) that is not historical. See http://www.billcasselman.com/wording_room/wop.htm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Sat Jun 4 15:22:19 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 12:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news Message-ID: <758960.83081.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Skip (re: the old academic joke), Monkeyed into teaching poesy by academics who decreed my freed word and press as edgy but moments after my hat hung the class turned to composition 101 found I a new sealed mirth of tongue. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 15:31:12 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 21:31:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alex's (big) news In-Reply-To: <758960.83081.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <758960.83081.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nic E ! On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Skip (re: the old academic joke), > > Monkeyed into teaching poesy > by academics who decreed > my freed word and press as edgy > > but moments after my hat hung > the class turned to composition 101 > found I a new sealed mirth of tongue. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jun 4 16:11:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:11:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein interview on the Brooklyn Rail Message-ID: <8CDF10ABE4A5001-10DC-1113E@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> http://www.brooklynrail.org/2011/06/books/in-conversation-charles-bernstein-with-adam-fitzgerald CHARLES BERNSTEIN with Adam Fitzgerald by Charles Bernstein Charles Bernstein is the author of Attack of the Difficult Poems: Essays and Inventions (University of Chicago Press, 2011); All the Whiskey in Heaven: Selected Poems (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2010); Blind Witness: Three American Operas (Factory School, 2008); and Girly Man (Chicago Press, 2006). He teaches at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is co-director of PennSound writing.upenn.edu/pennsound. See Epc.buffalo.edu for more information. Adam Fitzgerald (Rail): How long have you been working on the book? Meanwhile, you?re prolifically writing essays, speaking, doing appearances, Interneting. Charles Bernstein: Interneting? Hmm. I guess so. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jun 4 16:18:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:18:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] minimal (perhaps infra-verbal) martone Message-ID: <8CDF10BA930049D-10DC-111AA@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> Bob may be still under heavy anesthetic (when isn't he?) but here's something in keeping with his aesthetic: http://didiodatoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/thirty-ways-to-resay-john-martone-poem.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 02:32:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 08:32:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] minimal (perhaps infra-verbal) martone In-Reply-To: <8CDF10BA930049D-10DC-111AA@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF10BA930049D-10DC-111AA@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This is worth clicking on the link: in ner light in the dark (John Martone from *austerities*) On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 10:18 PM, wrote: > Bob may be still under heavy anesthetic (when isn't he?) but here's > something in keeping with his aesthetic: > > > http://didiodatoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/thirty-ways-to-resay-john-martone-poem.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 07:42:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 13:42:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition Message-ID: What is poetry? The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 08:28:03 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 14:28:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? Message-ID: Hermeneutics of behavioral environments The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually accepted social structures An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states of wake -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 10:54:35 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 09:54:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just as I thought. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > What is poetry? > The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ciccariello at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 13:59:14 2011 From: ciccariello at gmail.com (Peter ciccariello) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 13:59:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anny, In 2008, for the ?Conceptual Poetry and Its Others,? symposium at the University of Arizona Poetry Center, I asked the opposite question - ?What is not poetry?? ((Question #3). You may be interested in the responses . http://poetrycenter.arizona.edu/enewsletter/April2008/enews0408_concpoet_read.shtml - Peter http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Hermeneutics of behavioral environments > > The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually > accepted social structures > > An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily > clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states of > wake > > > -- > Anny Ballardini -- From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jun 5 21:20:57 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:20:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost farm Message-ID: <8CDF1FF1F8350A7-6D0-20E75@webmail-d008.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/05/nh_marks_100th_anniversary_robert_frost_sold_farm/DERRY, N.H.?From Highway 28, the New Hampshire farm once owned by poet Robert Frost may seem unchanged from a century ago. Yet the picturesque New England white barn and farmhouse recently underwent thousands of dollars in renovation including a new roof, foundation work and other upgrades. This And for the first time in decades the Robert Frost Farm -- which sits on 30 acres in Derry, N.H., about 10 miles north of the Massachusetts border -- now closely resembles the place Frost left as he embarked on a life as a full-time poet... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 02:21:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 08:21:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost farm In-Reply-To: <8CDF1FF1F8350A7-6D0-20E75@webmail-d008.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF1FF1F8350A7-6D0-20E75@webmail-d008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: This should be the direct link now: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/05/nh_marks_100th_anniversary_robert_frost_sold_farm/ On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:20 AM, wrote: > > http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/05/nh_marks_100th_anniversary_robert_frost_sold_farm/DERRY, > > > N.H.?From Highway 28, the New Hampshire farm once owned by poet Robert > Frost may seem unchanged from a century ago. Yet the picturesque New England > white barn and farmhouse recently underwent thousands of dollars in > renovation including a new roof, foundation work and other upgrades. > > This And for the first time in decades the Robert Frost Farm -- which sits > on 30 acres in Derry, N.H., about 10 miles north of the Massachusetts border > -- now closely resembles the place Frost left as he embarked on a life as a > full-time poet... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 04:18:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 10:18:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Field Report by Dennis Barone Message-ID: Quale Press is pleased to announce the publication of *Field Report ,* stories and prose poems by Dennis Barone. *Field Report* begins in affirmation and ends in doubt. Between start and finish there are archaic dictions and near-invented languages, simplistic jokes that a seven-year-old might tell and visions of what might be astonishments. One sentence states: "What wondrous things words" ? what, the optimal word here, turns the statement toward a question, one left long unanswered. The twenty stories in this book comprise a field report filed by an anthropologist, providing a concise and complete outline of culture as seen through the tri-lens of sensation, perception and vision. Along the way some pancakes, frogs and gelato get mixed into our favorite pot ? or is it plot? One particularly effusive informant offers a wealth of information ? passionate in its despair, and the reader might find it ? in response ? not too late to consider the world presented in *Field Report* with a touch of mercy. Dennis Barone's work has appeared in the * Chicago Review, The Prose Poem: An International Journal,* and *Quarter After Eight* among others. Barone has edited numerous collections and published many books of fiction, including two Quale titles, *North Arrow * and *Precise Machine *, as well as* Temple of the Rat* and *Echoes*. In 1992 he held the Thomas Jefferson Chair, a distinguished lecturing award in the Netherlands. He is a Professor of English at Saint Joseph College in West Hartford, Connecticut. *Field Report ,* by *Dennis Barone* ISBN: 978-1-935835-02-8 Perfect Bound, $15.00 Publication Date: May 16, 2011 5 x 8 inches, 102 pages Fiction/Memoir/Prose Poetry *Individuals:* Order directly from Small Press Distribution , 1-800-869-7553; or Amazon . *Bookstores:* Order through Small Press Distribution . -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 09:56:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 06:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the Anatomy of Influence/ & more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has repeated many times ...): "I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and wisdom.?Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark Strand. This is from the last chapter?of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom writes about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more than a little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm fortunate to lack such familiarity. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition What is poetry? The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 10:14:30 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 10:14:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Journey with Two Maps: Becoming a Woman Poet Message-ID: <8CDF26B2F5D8FFB-8D8-34267@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0604/1224298358304.html ESSAYS: CAITR?ONA O'REILLY reviews A Journey with Two Maps: Becoming a Woman Poet By Eavan Boland Carcanet Press, 265pp. ?16.95 ?THIS IS NOT a scholarly book,? Eavan Boland writes in the preface to A Journey with Two Maps: Becoming a Woman Poet. ?I did not approach my subject by finding facts. I approached it by finding myself.? For Boland, the appropriate ?unit of measurement? when approaching the history of poetry is ?the measure of own life?. Readers familiar with Boland?s work will recognise this angle of approach. She has consistently sought, in essays that are supplemental to, and in many respects justifications of, her poetry, to define and redefine her ars poetica broadly in light of her gender and nationality, and, conversely, to view personal and political concerns through the lens of her poetics. It would appear that there is little fresh or different to be expected from this collection. In the title essay, however, Boland proposes a newer version of her old self, one caught between seemingly exclusive alternatives from which she felt ?a pressure to choose. Between the formal stanza and the open one. Between the canon and the tradition. Between modernism and what went before. Between the public poem and the private one.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 10:28:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 10:28:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize winners Schnackenberg & Brand Message-ID: <8CDF26D1A945624-8D8-34578@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Griffin Poetry Prize winners 2011 TORONTO ? June 1, 2011 ? Gjertrud Schnackenberg?s *Heavenly Questions* and Dionne Brand?s *Ossuaries* are the International and Canadian winners of the 2011 annual Griffin Poetry Prize. They each received $65,000 CDN in prize money. http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/gjertrud-schnackenbergs-heavenly-questions-and-dionne-brands-ossuaries-win-the-2011-griffin-poetry-prize/#more-3943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 10:53:04 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 10:53:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDF27092C9FB67-8D8-34B13@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> A very manly list of influentials... Here's Bloom being interviewed: http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300167603 -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 6, 2011 9:56 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the Anatomy of Influence/ & more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has repeated many times ...): "I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and wisdom. Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark Strand. This is from the last chapter of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom writes about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more than a little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm fortunate to lack such familiarity. From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition What is poetry? The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 11:39:11 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 11:39:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition Message-ID: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 12:08:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 12:08:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet and playwright Edwin Honig, dies at 91 Message-ID: <8CDF27B2DD7C0FF-8D8-35AFF@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> http://newsblog.projo.com/2011/05/poet-and-playwright-edwin-honi.html All together, he wrote 10 books of poetry, 3 plays, 5 books of criticism and 8 translations one of the earliest of which was on Federico Garcia Lorca, the Spanish poet murdered by Franco's fascists in Granada. It was published in 1944. Four decades, later he was knighted by the president of Portugal for helping to introduce Fernando Pessoa to the English-speaking world and was similarly honored in 1996 by the king of Spain for his translations of Spanish poets and playwrights. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 12:52:00 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 11:52:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog Message-ID: Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering how much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but with ready acknowledgment, etc.). Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc. But I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a predisposition of mine . . . an old professor.) Perhaps a sentence or two, noting Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's reading of Dickinson, or whatever. But I basically want the poems and their apposition to generate significance. So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of apposition might be considered such) how much of a Creeley, or Scalipino, or Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? Anyone know how to begin? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 6 14:05:05 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 10:05:05 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rules about particular percentages and lengths for Fair Use are all myth. Fair Use is essentially a way of building a defense should you be accused of copyright infringement and is based on four factors (purpose/character of the use, nature of the work being used, amount and substance, effect on market value). Fair Use is also generally far too narrowly defined due to myths, pressure from media sources, and a general misunderstanding of what Fair Use is meant to be: a broad right that is intentionally abstract to allow for interpretation. What you are describing sounds like a reasonable fair use to me, particularly if there is ANY commentary and if you are using anything less than the full poem. If I were advising you, and I do this routinely, I would say go ahead and do your thing. You would, of course, cite the works you are quoting and, even better, somewhere provide links where people reading could purchase a book that contains each poem. In the end, the worse that happens to individuals in this kind of thing, is a letter from a publisher asking you to take something down. And *that's* when you have to decide what you want to do because, though Fair Use is broad, court cases are expensive. Though in most cases even if you refuse the publisher won't bother (and publishers attempt, routinely, to assert rights they do not have and prevent uses that are fair) and if you comply you aren't going to be pursued. Sadly, might makes right too often. Here is some Fair Use material I've developed for faculty at the University here that is meant to be somewhat readable: http://iteach.community.uaf.edu/pedagogy/copyright-fair-use/ c On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering how > much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but with > ready acknowledgment, etc.). > > Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) > Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc.? But > I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a predisposition > of mine . . . an old professor.)?Perhaps a sentence or two, noting > Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's reading > of Dickinson, or whatever. > > But I basically want the poems and their apposition to?generate > significance. > > So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of > apposition might be considered such)?how much of a Creeley, or Scalipino, or > Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? > > Anyone know how to begin? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 14:11:34 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:11:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog Message-ID: <29304656.1307383894778.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 14:12:46 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:12:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris, Thanks. I was hoping to use entire short poems. And my commentrary will be concidered (i.e., "It would appear Loy had read Dickinson on the basis of the diction and broken syntax above, but see the controversy at (link).") Again, Chris, thanks. This is intelligent and the link a great resource. skip On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Rules about particular percentages and lengths for Fair Use are all > myth. Fair Use is essentially a way of building a defense should you > be accused of copyright infringement and is based on four factors > (purpose/character of the use, nature of the work being used, amount > and substance, effect on market value). Fair Use is also generally far > too narrowly defined due to myths, pressure from media sources, and a > general misunderstanding of what Fair Use is meant to be: a broad > right that is intentionally abstract to allow for interpretation. > > What you are describing sounds like a reasonable fair use to me, > particularly if there is ANY commentary and if you are using anything > less than the full poem. If I were advising you, and I do this > routinely, I would say go ahead and do your thing. You would, of > course, cite the works you are quoting and, even better, somewhere > provide links where people reading could purchase a book that contains > each poem. > > In the end, the worse that happens to individuals in this kind of > thing, is a letter from a publisher asking you to take something down. > And *that's* when you have to decide what you want to do because, > though Fair Use is broad, court cases are expensive. Though in most > cases even if you refuse the publisher won't bother (and publishers > attempt, routinely, to assert rights they do not have and prevent uses > that are fair) and if you comply you aren't going to be pursued. > Sadly, might makes right too often. > > Here is some Fair Use material I've developed for faculty at the > University here that is meant to be somewhat readable: > http://iteach.community.uaf.edu/pedagogy/copyright-fair-use/ > > c > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering > how > > much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but > with > > ready acknowledgment, etc.). > > > > Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) > > Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc. > But > > I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a > predisposition > > of mine . . . an old professor.) Perhaps a sentence or two, noting > > Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's > reading > > of Dickinson, or whatever. > > > > But I basically want the poems and their apposition to generate > > significance. > > > > So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of > > apposition might be considered such) how much of a Creeley, or Scalipino, > or > > Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? > > > > Anyone know how to begin? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 14:46:39 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:46:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog Message-ID: <5497543.1307385999627.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 15:03:57 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:03:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog In-Reply-To: <5497543.1307385999627.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <5497543.1307385999627.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes. That is the idea I am getting. Too bad so many poets who would give me permission (and have in the past) are now dead. I think I'll try to get permission this month (I may have to adk for poets' e-mail addresses here), to avoid problems for me or Halvard. I really appreciate the feed back and welcome more. skip On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:46 PM, wrote: > One caveat: I in fact had a lawyer sic'd on me once. It was very > unpleasant. Where possible ask permission if you're going to quote an entire > poem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 2:12 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog > > Chris, > > Thanks. > > I was hoping to use entire short poems. And my commentrary will be > concidered (i.e., "It would appear Loy had read Dickinson on the basis of > the diction and broken syntax above, but see the controversy at (ZZZlink).") > > Again, Chris, thanks. This is intelligent and the link a great resource. > > skip > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> Rules about particular percentages and lengths for Fair Use are all >> myth. Fair Use is essentially a way of building a defense should you >> be accused of copyright infringement and is based on four factors >> (purpose/character of the use, nature of the work being used, amount >> and substance, effect on market value). Fair Use is also generally far >> too narrowly defined due to myths, pressure from media sources, and a >> general misunderstanding of what Fair Use is meant to be: a broad >> right that is intentionally abstract to allow for interpretation. >> >> What you are describing sounds like a reasonable fair use to me, >> particularly if there is ANY commentary and if you are using anything >> less than the full poem. If I were advising you, and I do this >> routinely, I would say go ahead and do your thing. You would, of >> course, cite the works you are quoting and, even better, somewhere >> provide links where people reading could purchase a book that contains >> each poem. >> >> In the end, the worse that happens to individuals in this kind of >> thing, is a letter from a publisher asking you to take something down. >> And *that's* when you have to decide what you want to do because, >> though Fair Use is broad, court cases are expensive. Though in most >> cases even if you refuse the publisher won't bother (and publishers >> attempt, routinely, to assert rights they do not have and prevent uses >> that are fair) and if you comply you aren't going to be pursued. >> Sadly, might makes right too often. >> >> Here is some Fair Use material I've developed for faculty at the >> University here that is meant to be somewhat readable: >> http://iteach.community.uaf.edu/pedagogy/copyright-fair-use/ >> >> c >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> > Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering >> how >> > much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but >> with >> > ready acknowledgment, etc.). >> > >> > Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) >> > Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc. >> But >> > I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a >> predisposition >> > of mine . . . an old professor.) Perhaps a sentence or two, noting >> > Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's >> reading >> > of Dickinson, or whatever. >> > >> > But I basically want the poems and their apposition to generate >> > significance. >> > >> > So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of >> > apposition might be considered such) how much of a Creeley, or >> Scalipino, or >> > Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? >> > >> > Anyone know how to begin? >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 15:08:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:08:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also like Mark Strand and find some refined intelligence in his poems. And thanks for your remark on not being familiar with "the average gestalt semiology" I was in fact seeing the grand picture. I could rephrase my previous answer in this way: What is poetry? The reductivist attitude of / and away from the average gestalt semiology. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the *Anatomy of > Influence*/ & more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has > repeated many times ...): > > "I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and > wisdom. Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark > Strand. This is from the last chapter of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom > writes about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... > Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. > > Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more > than a little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm > fortunate to lack such familiarity. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > *Sent:* Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a definition > > What is poetry? > The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 15:23:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:23:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A tough question. Bernstein is the only one who grasped it somehow: *Charles Bernstein:* The absence of conception had itself to be conceived. On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Peter ciccariello wrote: > Anny, > In 2008, for the ?Conceptual Poetry and Its Others,? symposium at the > University of Arizona Poetry Center, I asked the opposite question - > ?What is not poetry?? ((Question #3). You may be interested in the > responses . > > http://poetrycenter.arizona.edu/enewsletter/April2008/enews0408_concpoet_read.shtml > > > - Peter > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > Hermeneutics of behavioral environments > > > > The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually > > accepted social structures > > > > An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily > > clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states > of > > wake > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 15:43:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <522046.4817.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> He doesn't explain why he chooses to dismiss certain poets. From the Anatomy of Influence, in a chapter entitled "Whitman's Prodigals" (where he discusses Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, ?Strand, and C Wright), he states flatly-- There are diverse poets rambling about in Ashbery's many mansions, and some of them are not for me: let the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Poets take them away! The guy's old. Too old, I guess, to absorb Vispo or keep current. None-the-less, I always admire his insight, and I'm also very fond of?his 5 heavy hitting poets, especially Merwin. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 11:39:11 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition And amazingly conservative. While it's probably not kosher to criticize anyone for who they fall in love with (and that's Bloom's first criterion--the coup de foudre) , it's non-the-less surprising in one as widely read as I'd presume he is that Bloom has never been moved by anything outside the mainstream consensus. -----Original Message----- >From: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Jun 6, 2011 10:53 AM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition > >A very manly list of influentials... >Here's Bloom being interviewed: >http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300167603 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, Jun 6, 2011 9:56 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition > > >Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the Anatomy of Influence/ & >more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has repeated many times ...): > >"I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and >wisdom.?Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark >Strand. This is from the last chapter?of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom writes >about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... Ashbery, >Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. > > >Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more than a >little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm fortunate to lack >such familiarity. > > > > > ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > >Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition > >What is poetry? >The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 15:48:47 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:48:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Quote is from Stevens. Or a close variant. Perhaps from Notes towards a Supreme Fiction. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > A tough question. Bernstein is the only one who grasped it somehow: > > *Charles Bernstein:* The absence of conception had itself to be conceived. > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Peter ciccariello wrote: > >> Anny, >> In 2008, for the ?Conceptual Poetry and Its Others,? symposium at the >> University of Arizona Poetry Center, I asked the opposite question - >> ?What is not poetry?? ((Question #3). You may be interested in the >> responses . >> >> http://poetrycenter.arizona.edu/enewsletter/April2008/enews0408_concpoet_read.shtml >> >> >> - Peter >> http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Anny Ballardini >> wrote: >> > Hermeneutics of behavioral environments >> > >> > The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually >> > accepted social structures >> > >> > An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily >> > clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states >> of >> > wake >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Anny Ballardini >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 16:03:53 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> He does seem to like the mens mostly, but once he wrote to a not-mainstreamy: 11/24/04 Dear Amy King: A very enjoyable and witty poem.? Harold BloomDoes that get me in the door anywhere? ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" And amazingly conservative. While it's probably not kosher to criticize anyone for who they fall in love with (and that's Bloom's first criterion--the coup de foudre) , it's non-the-less surprising in one as widely read as I'd presume he is that Bloom has never been moved by anything outside the mainstream consensus. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 16:13:33 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <255647.14490.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> He thought of you nearly?7 years ago, Amy. That's nice. In fact, he must of read something?of ?yours. That's even nicer. The door probably opened ever so slightly -- 7 years ago. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 4:03:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition He does seem to like the mens mostly, but once he wrote to a not-mainstreamy: 11/24/04 Dear Amy King: A very enjoyable and witty poem.? Harold BloomDoes that get me in the door anywhere? ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" And amazingly conservative. While it's probably not kosher to criticize anyone for who they fall in love with (and that's Bloom's first criterion--the coup de foudre) , it's non-the-less surprising in one as widely read as I'd presume he is that Bloom has never been moved by anything outside the mainstream consensus. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 16:14:45 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <255647.14490.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <255647.14490.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <480036.59103.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> And I didn't even get a stogie... ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, June 6, 2011 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition He thought of you nearly?7 years ago, Amy. That's nice. ? In fact, he must of read something?of ?yours. That's even nicer. ? The door probably opened ever so slightly -- 7 years ago. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 4:03:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a definition He does seem to like the mens mostly, but once he wrote to a not-mainstreamy: 11/24/04 Dear Amy King: A very enjoyable and witty poem.? Harold BloomDoes that get me in the door anywhere? ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" And amazingly conservative. While it's probably not kosher to criticize anyone for who they fall in love with (and that's Bloom's first criterion--the coup de foudre) , it's non-the-less surprising in one as widely read as I'd presume he is that Bloom has never been moved by anything outside the mainstream consensus. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 16:18:42 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Message-ID: <37469.27809.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm Cheers, Amy ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 16:43:20 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:43:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What is poetry, who is she that all our swains commend her? "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > A tough question. Bernstein is the only one who grasped it somehow: > > *Charles Bernstein:* The absence of conception had itself to be conceived. > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Peter ciccariello wrote: > >> Anny, >> In 2008, for the ?Conceptual Poetry and Its Others,? symposium at the >> University of Arizona Poetry Center, I asked the opposite question - >> ?What is not poetry?? ((Question #3). You may be interested in the >> responses . >> >> http://poetrycenter.arizona.edu/enewsletter/April2008/enews0408_concpoet_read.shtml >> >> >> - Peter >> http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Anny Ballardini >> wrote: >> > Hermeneutics of behavioral environments >> > >> > The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually >> > accepted social structures >> > >> > An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily >> > clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states >> of >> > wake >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Anny Ballardini >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 16:47:50 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:47:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <31212466.1307374759540.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <775746.58541.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: All doors closed. As Rachel Hadas (who's had her successes) once said to me, "Nothing changes anything." "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM, amy king wrote: > He does seem to like the mens mostly, but once he wrote to a > not-mainstreamy: > > 11/24/04 > Dear Amy King: > A very enjoyable and witty poem. Harold BloomDoes that get me in the door > anywhere? > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > > And amazingly conservative. While it's probably not kosher to criticize > anyone for who they fall in love with (and that's Bloom's first > criterion--the coup de foudre) , it's non-the-less surprising in one as > widely read as I'd presume he is that Bloom has never been moved by anything > outside the mainstream consensus. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 16:58:07 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 15:58:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] xiv. Message-ID: The wind this week is closed down for repairs. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 6 17:13:32 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:13:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog In-Reply-To: <5497543.1307385999627.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <5497543.1307385999627.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I/we have refused to comply with takedown (C&D) requests perhaps 50% of the time out of maybe a dozen instances that have arisen out of thousands of uses. It's never come to the point of a court case. But YMMV of course and IANAL, etc. I agree, for sure, when it comes to using full poems! c On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, wrote: > One caveat: I in fact had a lawyer sic'd on me once. It was very unpleasant. > Where possible ask permission if you're going to quote an entire poem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 2:12 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog > > Chris, > > Thanks. > > I was hoping to use entire short poems. And my commentrary will be > concidered (i.e., "It would appear Loy had read Dickinson on the basis of > the diction and broken syntax above, but see the controversy at (ZZZlink).") > > Again, Chris, thanks. This is intelligent and the link a great resource. > > skip > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> Rules about particular percentages and lengths for Fair Use are all >> myth. Fair Use is essentially a way of building a defense should you >> be accused of copyright infringement and is based on four factors >> (purpose/character of the use, nature of the work being used, amount >> and substance, effect on market value). Fair Use is also generally far >> too narrowly defined due to myths, pressure from media sources, and a >> general misunderstanding of what Fair Use is meant to be: a broad >> right that is intentionally abstract to allow for interpretation. >> >> What you are describing sounds like a reasonable fair use to me, >> particularly if there is ANY commentary and if you are using anything >> less than the full poem. If I were advising you, and I do this >> routinely, I would say go ahead and do your thing. You would, of >> course, cite the works you are quoting and, even better, somewhere >> provide links where people reading could purchase a book that contains >> each poem. >> >> In the end, the worse that happens to individuals in this kind of >> thing, is a letter from a publisher asking you to take something down. >> And *that's* when you have to decide what you want to do because, >> though Fair Use is broad, court cases are expensive. Though in most >> cases even if you refuse the publisher won't bother (and publishers >> attempt, routinely, to assert rights they do not have and prevent uses >> that are fair) and if you comply you aren't going to be pursued. >> Sadly, might makes right too often. >> >> Here is some Fair Use material I've developed for faculty at the >> University here that is meant to be somewhat readable: >> http://iteach.community.uaf.edu/pedagogy/copyright-fair-use/ >> >> c >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> > Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering >> > how >> > much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but >> > with >> > ready acknowledgment, etc.). >> > >> > Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) >> > Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc. >> > But >> > I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a >> > predisposition >> > of mine . . . an old professor.)?Perhaps a sentence or two, noting >> > Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's >> > reading >> > of Dickinson, or whatever. >> > >> > But I basically want the poems and their apposition to?generate >> > significance. >> > >> > So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of >> > apposition might be considered such)?how much of a Creeley, or >> > Scalipino, or >> > Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? >> > >> > Anyone know how to begin? >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 17:29:20 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 17:29:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Message-ID: <6827908.1307395761317.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 17:34:20 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 17:34:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Message-ID: <4885115.1307396060369.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Right. The full poem is the issue. Some creep (I remember now--it was Zukofsky's son, the erstwhile fiddler) tried to intimidate me into not using a tiny snippet. I said ok and used it anyway. But it was brief enough so that there was no issue, and I assumed his lawyer would advise him as much if he tried to go further. As always the legal issue comes down to market value, and a snippet doesn't have any. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: Jun 6, 2011 5:13 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog > >I/we have refused to comply with takedown (C&D) requests perhaps 50% >of the time out of maybe a dozen instances that have arisen out of >thousands of uses. It's never come to the point of a court case. But >YMMV of course and IANAL, etc. > >I agree, for sure, when it comes to using full poems! > >c > > >On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, wrote: >> One caveat: I in fact had a lawyer sic'd on me once. It was very unpleasant. >> Where possible ask permission if you're going to quote an entire poem. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Skip Fox >> Sent: Jun 6, 2011 2:12 PM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A "Fair Use" question concerning a blog >> >> Chris, >> >> Thanks. >> >> I was hoping to use entire short poems. And my commentrary will be >> concidered (i.e., "It would appear Loy had read Dickinson on the basis of >> the diction and broken syntax above, but see the controversy at (ZZZlink).") >> >> Again, Chris, thanks. This is intelligent and the link a great resource. >> >> skip >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>> Rules about particular percentages and lengths for Fair Use are all >>> myth. Fair Use is essentially a way of building a defense should you >>> be accused of copyright infringement and is based on four factors >>> (purpose/character of the use, nature of the work being used, amount >>> and substance, effect on market value). Fair Use is also generally far >>> too narrowly defined due to myths, pressure from media sources, and a >>> general misunderstanding of what Fair Use is meant to be: a broad >>> right that is intentionally abstract to allow for interpretation. >>> >>> What you are describing sounds like a reasonable fair use to me, >>> particularly if there is ANY commentary and if you are using anything >>> less than the full poem. If I were advising you, and I do this >>> routinely, I would say go ahead and do your thing. You would, of >>> course, cite the works you are quoting and, even better, somewhere >>> provide links where people reading could purchase a book that contains >>> each poem. >>> >>> In the end, the worse that happens to individuals in this kind of >>> thing, is a letter from a publisher asking you to take something down. >>> And *that's* when you have to decide what you want to do because, >>> though Fair Use is broad, court cases are expensive. Though in most >>> cases even if you refuse the publisher won't bother (and publishers >>> attempt, routinely, to assert rights they do not have and prevent uses >>> that are fair) and if you comply you aren't going to be pursued. >>> Sadly, might makes right too often. >>> >>> Here is some Fair Use material I've developed for faculty at the >>> University here that is meant to be somewhat readable: >>> http://iteach.community.uaf.edu/pedagogy/copyright-fair-use/ >>> >>> c >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>> > Halvard has kindly allowed me to edit Truck in July and I was wondering >>> > how >>> > much I can quote of others' copyrighted poetry without permission (but >>> > with >>> > ready acknowledgment, etc.). >>> > >>> > Perhaps I'd like to compare a Wyatt lyric with a short (under 25 lines) >>> > Creeley poem. Dickinson with Loy. Or Wordsworth with Laura Mullen. Etc. >>> > But >>> > I don't want to add a lot of commentary (which is usually a >>> > predisposition >>> > of mine . . . an old professor.)?Perhaps a sentence or two, noting >>> > Renaissance song in Creeley or mentioning the controversy of Loy's >>> > reading >>> > of Dickinson, or whatever. >>> > >>> > But I basically want the poems and their apposition to?generate >>> > significance. >>> > >>> > So . . . without much commentary (though, to an extent, the act of >>> > apposition might be considered such)?how much of a Creeley, or >>> > Scalipino, or >>> > Ballardini poem can I quote without asking permission?? >>> > >>> > Anyone know how to begin? >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 17:42:49 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:42:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A In-Reply-To: <4885115.1307396060369.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <4885115.1307396060369.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Paul Zukofsky. That lovely child in Louis' work and in Lorine Neidecker's, became an addled adult. "I mean to make money off theis material" is a close prarphrase of what he said. Thanks for the very experiential information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 17:46:31 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:46:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: References: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you know that *gestalt* is also "an environment-query function in Mac OS"? I found that interesting. - Jim On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I also like Mark Strand and find some refined intelligence in his poems. > And thanks for your remark on not being familiar with "the average gestalt > semiology" I was in fact seeing the grand picture. I could rephrase my > previous answer in this way: > What is poetry? > The reductivist attitude of / and away from the average gestalt semiology. > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the *Anatomy of >> Influence*/ & more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has >> repeated many times ...): >> >> "I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and >> wisdom. Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark >> Strand. This is from the last chapter of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom >> writes about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... >> Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. >> >> Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more >> than a little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm >> fortunate to lack such familiarity. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> *Sent:* Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a definition >> >> What is poetry? >> The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 17:48:17 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 17:48:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Message-ID: <5146291.1307396897845.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 17:56:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:56:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a definition In-Reply-To: References: <994576.38416.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Gestalt! I've heard the skiing's great there. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Did you know that *gestalt* is also "an environment-query function in Mac > OS"? I found that interesting. > > - Jim > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> I also like Mark Strand and find some refined intelligence in his poems. >> And thanks for your remark on not being familiar with "the average gestalt >> semiology" I was in fact seeing the grand picture. I could rephrase my >> previous answer in this way: >> What is poetry? >> The reductivist attitude of / and away from the average gestalt semiology. >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Here's what Harold Bloom would ask of a poem (from the *Anatomy of >>> Influence*/ & more than likely a paraphrase of something Bloom has >>> repeated many times ...): >>> >>> "I ask of a poem three things: aesthetic splendor, cognitive power, and >>> wisdom. Bloom goes on to state that he finds all three in the work of Mark >>> Strand. This is from the last chapter of Anatomy of Influence were Bloom >>> writes about his favorite contemporary poets. Included along with Strand ... >>> Ashbery, Ammons, Merwin, and Charles Wright. >>> >>> Bloom writes for the intelligent, passionate reader, although he's more >>> than a little bit familiar with "the average gestalt semiology." I'm >>> fortunate to lack such familiarity. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>> *Sent:* Sun, June 5, 2011 7:42:06 AM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a definition >>> >>> What is poetry? >>> The reductivist attitude of the average gestalt semiology. >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 17:52:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:52:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A In-Reply-To: <5146291.1307396897845.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <5146291.1307396897845.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On a scale of 1-10, ranging from less misguided to more misguided, how misguided were they? And who else would you rate at that level of misguidance? "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: > He was also responsible for some of the most misguided performances of > modern music. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 5:42 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A > > > Paul Zukofsky. That lovely child in Louis' work and in Lorine Neidecker's, > became an addled adult. "I mean to make money off theis material" is a > close prarphrase of what he said. > > Thanks for the very experiential information. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 6 18:16:08 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 18:16:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Message-ID: <11930824.1307398569008.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 19:31:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:31:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bullshit Fields on Bemsha Swing Message-ID: <8CDF2B8F5D01FB6-1C84-2CA6D@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Creative Writing http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-8.html Literary Theory http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-3.html Among other fields like nutrition and psychoanalysis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 6 21:15:34 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:15:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDF2C788936621-1C84-2DF01@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Serriously... Craig Dworkin: I think the characteristic you identify is actually a result of why I write poetry to begin with, which isn't really for me, and certainly isn't for the reader, but rather for Poetry?for Language itself. -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 6, 2011 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] again: what is poetry? Quote is from Stevens. Or a close variant. Perhaps from Notes towards a Supreme Fiction. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: A tough question. Bernstein is the only one who grasped it somehow: Charles Bernstein: The absence of conception had itself to be conceived. On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Peter ciccariello wrote: Anny, In 2008, for the ?Conceptual Poetry and Its Others,? symposium at the University of Arizona Poetry Center, I asked the opposite question - ?What is not poetry?? ((Question #3). You may be interested in the responses . http://poetrycenter.arizona.edu/enewsletter/April2008/enews0408_concpoet_read.shtml - Peter http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Hermeneutics of behavioral environments > > The glimpse through words into inner spaces of already set and usually > accepted social structures > > An attempt at putting into equilibrium what goes unsaid with the daily > clatter that fills up our neatly outlined and at times bordering states of > wake > > > -- > Anny Ballardini -- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 09:05:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] xiv. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <841876.67863.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i meant to say, Cool poem. in a similiar vein, I have a one liner entitled "A Critique of The Rainbow," that goes: I judge this book by the pages between its colors. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 4:58:07 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] xiv. The wind this week is closed down for repairs. ? ?? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 09:59:40 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Message-ID: <722807.20200.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our?little?Ms. Muse, enlightening?the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Jun 7 10:47:04 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 06:47:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bullshit Fields on Bemsha Swing In-Reply-To: <8CDF2B8F5D01FB6-1C84-2CA6D@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF2B8F5D01FB6-1C84-2CA6D@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Blah blah blah. Mayhew loves to hear himself talk and considers himself above all those that listen. What's the point? c On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:31 PM, wrote: > Creative Writing > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-8.html > > Literary Theory > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-3.html > Among other fields like nutrition and psychoanalysis. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 10:52:17 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 07:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <722807.20200.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <722807.20200.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462906.67034.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our?little?Ms. Muse, enlightening?the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts?cosmic bars,??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our?little?Ms. Muse, enlightening?the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????&n bsp;?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 11:04:20 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bullshit Fields on Bemsha Swing In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF2B8F5D01FB6-1C84-2CA6D@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <196216.87055.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Indeed. Not to mention that?some of these posts are little more than recycled clich?s,?and with such purity it's almost impressive. Amicalement, Alex ? Blah blah blah. Mayhew loves to hear himself talk and considers himself above all those that listen. What's the point? c On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:31 PM,? wrote: > Creative Writing > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-8.html > > Literary Theory > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-3.html > Among other fields like nutrition and psychoanalysis. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 11:41:57 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:41:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A In-Reply-To: <11930824.1307398569008.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11930824.1307398569008.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: To return to the ideal: Paul Zukofsky "was" (fictionalized) also the son in dialogue with his father about Shakespeare, sight, hearing, thought, etc. in Zukofsky's *Bottom: On Shakespeare* (1963), which I recommend for all lovers of good and intelligent prose using centuries of quotes from the English tradition. I recommend it strongly. But its another example of how the core of his father (who freely and excitedly quoted from any and all) was lost to the son. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM, wrote: > He cornered the market, Hal. He tended to perform everything as if it were > Charles Wuorinen's idea of post-Webernian. Check out his Ives sonatas. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 5:52 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A > > On a scale of 1-10, ranging from less misguided to more misguided, > how misguided were they? And who else would you rate at that level > of misguidance? > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: > >> He was also responsible for some of the most misguided performances of >> modern music. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Skip Fox >> Sent: Jun 6, 2011 5:42 PM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A >> >> >> Paul Zukofsky. That lovely child in Louis' work and in Lorine Neidecker's, >> became an addled adult. "I mean to make money off theis material" is a >> close prarphrase of what he said. >> >> Thanks for the very experiential information. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jun 7 14:00:28 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:00:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Bronk Symposium: Call for Papers Message-ID: <8CDF353EB56BA00-11E0-26849@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:13:04 -0400 From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: William Bronk Symposium: Call for Papers CALL FOR PAPERS FOR A SYMPOSIUM ON WILLIAM BRONK Papers are being sought for a symposium on the life and work of William Bronk (1918-1999). The symposium will be held in New York City in spring 2012, to coincide with the appearance of Bursts of Light: The Collected Later Poems of William Bronk. Papers from the conference will be the basis for a collection of essays to be published by Talisman House. The talks and readings making up the symposium will be recorded and then streamed on the Internet from a dedicated website. While it is expected that established poets and scholars will take part in this symposium, younger poets, critics and scholars are very strongly encouraged to make presentations. How William Bronk can be read in our current time is a concern of this event. ABSTRACTS OF 1-2 PAGES SHOULD BE SENT TO: Edward Foster, TalismanEd at aol.com and Burt Kimmelman, Kimmelman at njit.edu. ABOUT WILLIAM BRONK William Bronk was one of the foremost poets of the twentieth century. His w= ork has been praised widely. The attention is remarkable given that he spen= t most of his life secluded in Hudson Falls, New York and abjuring literary= politics, often turning down requests for readings and the like. Neverthel= ess, he did receive the American Book Award (the year before it became the = National Book Award) and the Lannan Prize; and he did read an occasional po= em at Governor Mario Cuomo's first inauguration. The Governor's invitation = came not merely because the Borough of the Bronx was named after Bronk's an= cestor who farmed a good deal of that land. In the 1970s and 1980s two prominent scholarly journals devoted entire issu= es to discussions of Bronk's poetry and essays. In 1998 the first critical = book on Bronk appeared, which was then followed by another two years later,= and more since then, all by prominent scholars of American poetry. Major e= ssays on Bronk continue to appear regularly in journals. William Bronk's work is known for its evocations of the New York landscape,= as well as for its meditations on the ancient Incan and Mayan cultures, wh= ich were prompted by his travels through Latin America. Yet Bronk is most k= nown, and admired, for his inquiries into the nature of reality and knowing= . Paul Auster once wrote of his work (in the Saturday Review, once Bronk ha= d begun to attract a lot of attention): "Bronk's poetry stands as an eloque= nt and often beautiful attack on all our assumptions, a provocation, a monu= ment to the questioning mind." The value of Bronk's work is still well known among older poets and scholar= s, yet there is a profound need for a younger readership. Early on, Bronk's= poems appeared in the now famous Black Mountain Review and Origin magazine= s, and he was an important part of the midcentury avant-garde that was memo= rialized in the 1960 anthology The New American Poetry. Yet, as David Clipp= inger's book on Bronk documents, he was removed from the anthology at the e= leventh hour because its editor, Donald Allen, couldn't fit his work into a= ny of the "schools" of poetry he had concocted for the publication. Neverth= eless, Bronk is, arguably, key to our understanding of American letters, an= d particularly the post-World War II new poetry and thought. Cid Corman, a = prolific poet and the editor of Origin, acknowledged Bronk as being " the t= hread that binds all the issues together" (quoted from The Gist of Origin).= The fact that Bronk was the final poet cut from Donald Allen's anthology,= and that Bronk does not appear in the Norton or other widely used antholog= ies today, compels this symposium as a way to put Bronk back before the eye= s of a broader readership, and a conference on his work and life, at this t= ime, might ultimately address a reassessment of the twentieth-century liter= ary canon. Praise for the work of William Bronk: "A work that demands to be read." -Saturday Review * "A brilliant poetry." = -George Oppen (winner of the Pulitzer Prize) * "One of our finest . . . poe= ts." -The New York Times Book Review * "A poet of great distinction." -Smal= l Press Review * "Bronk is an acquired taste. I recommend you acquire it." = -Library Journal * "He is brilliant." -Southwest Review * PLEASE FORWARD THE ABOVE CFP TO OTHER LISTS. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jun 7 14:16:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:16:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: Message-ID: <8CDF3563810E373-11E0-26B36@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-book-contests_b_858819.html?page=1 Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: Why Contests Are the Stupidest Way to Publish First Books Posted: 06/ 2/11 02:21 PM ET Anis ShivaniWriter, anisshivani.com Poetry contests are about the only remaining way to publish a first poetry book. And that's one way poetry is being killed in this country, reduced to consensus-by-committee, stripped of individual vision, yielding vast parchments of conformity and mediocrity, worth only as means of boosting resumes and securing academic jobs. Our poetry is haunted today by a blind adherence to lack of ambition--and the poetry contest model is part of the problem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 14:27:07 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:27:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: In-Reply-To: <8CDF3563810E373-11E0-26B36@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF3563810E373-11E0-26B36@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: "Competing for a poetry prize is like entering your mothr in a wet T-shirt contest" (Richard LaPauvre) On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:16 PM, wrote: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-book-contests_b_858819.html?page=1 > > Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: Why Contests Are the Stupidest > Way to Publish First Books > Posted: 06/ 2/11 02:21 PM ET > > Anis ShivaniWriter, anisshivani.com > > Poetry contests are about the only remaining way to publish a first poetry > book. And that's one way poetry is being killed in this country, reduced to > consensus-by-committee, stripped of individual vision, yielding vast > parchments of conformity and mediocrity, worth only as means of boosting > resumes and securing academic jobs. Our poetry is haunted today by a blind > adherence to lack of ambition--and the poetry contest model is part of the > problem. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Tue Jun 7 14:33:31 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: In-Reply-To: <8CDF3563810E373-11E0-26B36@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF3563810E373-11E0-26B36@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDF3588967E212-1E40-589CA@webmail-d126.sysops.aol.com> I read this article too, with great interest. Rather than being the last bastion of chances for a first book, it is quite possible that these contests ARE the problem. Sure, they raise money for presses and judges, but do they discover great work? Is the type of work that wins contests the type of work that lasts? That lingers? That will prove the test of time? My own path of book publication was for seventeen years to submit work to competitions. Every year it was a coin toss which I would enter because it would have cost hundreds of dollars to enter them all. And to varying degrees, I had success: a few finalist places, a semi-finalist spot, an honorable mention. But, overall, it was a demeaning process. It was only when I swore off contests (like kicking an addiction), that my first book was accepted. And still those glossy ads, those empty promises call me: send money, send poetry, you too can be a winner. Mill -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 11:17 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-book-contests_b_858819.html?page=1 Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: Why Contests Are the Stupidest Way to Publish First Books Posted: 06/ 2/11 02:21 PM ET Anis ShivaniWriter, anisshivani.com Poetry contests are about the only remaining way to publish a first poetry book. And that's one way poetry is being killed in this country, reduced to consensus-by-committee, stripped of individual vision, yielding vast parchments of conformity and mediocrity, worth only as means of boosting resumes and securing academic jobs. Our poetry is haunted today by a blind adherence to lack of ambition--and the poetry contest model is part of the problem. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Tue Jun 7 14:33:55 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bullshit Fields on Bemsha Swing In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF2B8F5D01FB6-1C84-2CA6D@webmail-d009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDF358975C8DEC-D04-5657C@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> Funny how these critiques are always accepted as true while no one ever offers specifics. Does anyone have a story about a professor saying "write like me" or "the class wants you to do this." My experience in most workshops is that I got about nine wildly divergent opinions and went from there. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 12:05 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bullshit Fields on Bemsha Swing Blah blah blah. Mayhew loves to hear himself talk and considers himself above all those that listen. What's the point? c On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:31 PM, wrote: > Creative Writing > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-8.html > > Literary Theory > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2011/06/bullshit-fields-3.html > Among other fields like nutrition and psychoanalysis. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 14:27:19 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 11:27:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <6827908.1307395761317.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6827908.1307395761317.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Agreed! k (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > Cheers, > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From junction at earthlink.net Tue Jun 7 14:42:08 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:42:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Book Contests Should be Abolished: Message-ID: <23432635.1307472129277.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Jun 7 15:14:08 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:14:08 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: References: <6827908.1307395761317.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, Message-ID: Steve Bassett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 7 15:16:32 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:16:32 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> We are the aliens! G. E. Schwartz > Agreed! > > k > (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I > > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal > > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a > > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amy king > > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: > > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > > they write poetry?' > > > > Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > > Cheers, > > Amy > > > > ********* > > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > > +?Interviews > > Amy's Alias > > +?http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > k > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 7 15:18:16 2011 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:18:16 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110607191816.GF1R2.155746.root@hrndva-web27-z01> William Bronk > Agreed! > > k > (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I > > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal > > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a > > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amy king > > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: > > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > > they write poetry?' > > > > Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > > Cheers, > > Amy > > > > ********* > > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > > +?Interviews > > Amy's Alias > > +?http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > k > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 15:38:52 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants Message-ID: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> in the spirit of inside the Beltway News. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner decided wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. There once were these ladies called Muses Who danced on heads with short fuses One day they were gone And the artists felt wronged So their crotches did suffer abuses. ? Just an example of the rhythm required for a limerick.? Limericks are also bawdy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 15:52:07 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants In-Reply-To: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <847567.6932.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> no, it should be despite sexually suggestive spankly pranks ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:38:52 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants in the spirit of inside the Beltway News. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner decided wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. There once were these ladies called Muses Who danced on heads with short fuses One day they were gone And the artists felt wronged So their crotches did suffer abuses. ? Just an example of the rhythm required for a limerick.? Limericks are also bawdy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 16:36:12 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> Message-ID: <387456.39424.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> exaclty. In the rest of the universe, we're the infant counter culture that no one understands. On A.m. radio, the Art Bell show once ruled in this sort of speculation. They had debunkers of every sort, including we never made it to the moon skeptics. The moon landing is about the only thing I really trust that's government sponsored: ________________________________ From: "gejs1 at rochester.rr.com" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' We are the aliens! G. E. Schwartz > Agreed! > > k > (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I > > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal > > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a > > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: amy king > > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: > > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > > they write poetry?' > > > > Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > > Cheers, > > Amy > > > > ********* > > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > > + http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > k > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 16:53:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants In-Reply-To: <847567.6932.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <847567.6932.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477554.62705.qm@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> had to get rid of decided in the last line, and his in the last line. finally, maybe, an o.k. limerick -- Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite sexually suggestive spankly pranks. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner decided wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:52:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants no, it should be despite sexually suggestive spankly pranks ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:38:52 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants in the spirit of inside the Beltway News. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner decided wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. There once were these ladies called Muses Who danced on heads with short fuses One day they were gone And the artists felt wronged So their crotches did suffer abuses. Just an example of the rhythm required for a limerick. Limericks are also bawdy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 16:44:00 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants In-Reply-To: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <832274.39504.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <651436.50448.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> decided has to go to. now, maybe, the real limerick: in the spirit of inside the Beltway News. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:38:52 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Buldging Underpants in the spirit of inside the Beltway News. Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner decided wouldn't congressionally budge ... despite his sexually suggestive spankly pranks. There once were these ladies called Muses Who danced on heads with short fuses One day they were gone And the artists felt wronged So their crotches did suffer abuses. Just an example of the rhythm required for a limerick. Limericks are also bawdy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jun 7 17:05:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:05:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: basalt Message-ID: <8CDF36DB7EFFE09-2084-39840@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com> http://www.basaltmagazine.com/about-basalt/ The predecessor of basalt, the beloved tabloid Calapooya Collage, was established in 1981 by the late Tom Ferte. Calapooya dedicated itself to publishing a wide variety of poets from around the Northwest and US, as well as publishing translations. The magazine moved from Monmouth, Oregon to Eastern Oregon University in La Grande, Oregon in 1998, where five subsequent issues appeared. After publishing a special issue dedicated to the work the photographer Minor White did in La Grande during the 1940s, the magazine?s format and name changed to basalt in 2004. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jun 7 17:10:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:10:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDF36E7E034EB5-2084-3998D@webmail-m082.sysops.aol.com> See link... http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/19698 - The poet Ben Grossberg who lives in Hartford area is at work on long series of "The Space Traveler Poems." The nomimal characters are the space traveler and an unnamed earthling, but the subjects are generally of human concern... http://www.hungermtn.org/the-space-traveler-awaits-a-call/ http://www.lambdaliterary.org/features/poetry-spotlight/10/07/benjamin-s-grossberg-the-space-travelers-husband/ - David Clewell in _low end of higher things_ has a piece based on the famous panic inciting broadcast of War of the Worlds by Orson Welles. But I can't find a link to it. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: karen To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 2:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Agreed! k who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm Cheers, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Jun 7 17:11:12 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:11:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Message-ID: <12424249.1307481073146.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 18:20:12 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:20:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <12424249.1307481073146.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12424249.1307481073146.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: All great suggestions for me. Thanks all! On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > Better not drink the water, then. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: Jun 7, 2011 4:36 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > exaclty. > > In the rest of the universe, we're the infant counter culture that no one > understands. > > On A.m. radio, the Art Bell show once ruled in this sort of speculation. > They had debunkers of every sort, including we never made it to the moon > skeptics. > > The moon landing is about the only thing I really trust that's government > sponsored: > > ________________________________ > From: "gejs1 at rochester.rr.com" > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 3:16:32 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > > > We are the aliens! > > G. E. Schwartz >> Agreed! >> >> k >> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM,? wrote: >> > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week >> > when I >> > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the >> > illegal >> > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer >> > opens a >> > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: amy king >> > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM >> > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , >> > "NewPoetry: >> > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, >> > do >> > they write poetry?' >> > >> > Answers here - >> > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm >> > Cheers, >> > Amy >> > >> > ********* >> > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >> > +?Interviews >> > Amy's Alias >> > +?http://amyking.org/ >> > ******** >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> k >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 02:20:25 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:20:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] xiv. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :-) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The wind this week > is closed down > for repairs. > > > > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 09:12:34 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] xiv. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <636540.60679.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The tornado drove off the lot with a 3 day warranty. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 2:20:25 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] xiv. :-) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: The wind this week >is closed down >for repairs. > > > > > > >? ?? > > >"Reality cannot be copywrited." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 09:38:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] I've Finally (ReaLLY) Done a Decent Limerick Message-ID: <930110.84694.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner couldn't congressionally?or sexually?spark spankly pranks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 09:45:23 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:45:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Begins in words, ends in art Message-ID: http://beautifuldecay.com/2009/09/01/interview-jeff-eisenberg/ "Other projects involve a specific process, something more along the lines of a conceptualized procedure that relates to the kind of image I want to make. That?s the case for the automatic writing. That relates to a specific project I?ve been working at for a few years now, making different series of drawings that explore contemporary and visionary architecture, and automatic writing is the first step I use in that process. " -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 10:20:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] I've Finally (ReaLLY) Done a Decent Limerick In-Reply-To: <930110.84694.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <930110.84694.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <877018.57077.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> of course if contitness were spelled contriteness & delightness were spelled delightedness ... who knows ... ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 9:38:39 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] I've Finally (ReaLLY) Done a Decent Limerick Impotently Yours Dot Com Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, his girlfriends got caught online thanks to investigative happenstance. Although Weiner claimed contritness, amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, Weiner couldn't congressionally?or sexually?spark spankly pranks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 10:29:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] D.C. guy goes one better Message-ID: <699739.53738.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> D.C. poet Brandon Johnson goes one better Weiner, proud of his bulging drawers Had girllfriends shocked behind closed doors Though he's not happy, so busted showing nappies Now he knows Keep on the khaki's...pappies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 12:50:10 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 11:50:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] iii. Message-ID: iii. all those words sentenced to time served "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 15:09:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: xiv. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <317325.1293.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> correction: roared off the lot ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 9:12:34 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] xiv. The tornado drove off the lot with a 3 day warranty. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 2:20:25 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] xiv. :-) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: The wind this week >is closed down >for repairs. > > > > > > >? ?? > > >"Reality cannot be copywrited." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 15:13:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My final attempt at a decent limerick Message-ID: <502975.13576.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >with a bit added on. Weiner seemed unusually proud of his buldging underpants, >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > >Weiner, sexually &?congressionally?sparked spankly pranks. ??????????????????????????????????? . June, record high heat. Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. & no one notices this scandal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 15:17:55 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] iii. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <876673.59926.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> iv. was the self a fiction? the weather alone seemed real. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 12:50:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] iii. iii. all those words sentenced to time served ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 15:35:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Fw: xiv. Message-ID: <991133.72457.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The wind this week is closed down for repairs. ? The tornado roared off the lot with a 3 day warranty. ? iii. all those words sentenced to time served iv. was the self a fiction? the weather alone seemed real. v. time ... what makes it possible for everything not to happen all at once --? ? ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 3:09:28 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: xiv. correction: roared off the lot ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 9:12:34 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] xiv. The tornado drove off the lot with a 3 day warranty. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 2:20:25 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] xiv. :-) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: The wind this week >is closed down >for repairs. > > > > > > >? ?? > > >"Reality cannot be copywrited." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 15:45:49 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] After Halvard Johnson Message-ID: <531673.54681.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The wind this week is closed down for repairs. ? The tornado roared off the lot with a 3 day warranty. ? iii. all those words sentenced to time served iv. was the self a fiction? the weather alone seemed real. v. time ... what makes it possible for everything not to happen all at once --? vi. the most solemn word of the week is now. vii. we meet again in the once upon -- ? viii. ... the same hand I've shook a thousand times, &?I've failed to recognize it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 8 17:53:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 17:53:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Message-ID: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery. Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while. Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars, murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. &a mp;n bsp; murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 18:40:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <895.56433.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i'm probably the mosst shameless, incompetatnt Limericker of all time, and you only caught a glimpse. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery. Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while. Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars, murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. &a mp;n bsp; murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 19:15:55 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> but I hope i may have recovered somewhat with this -- added on thing. Weiner seemed unusually proud of his bulging underpants, >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > >Weiner, sexually & congressionally sparked spankly pranks. . June, record high heat. Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. & no one notices this scandal. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery. Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while. Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars, murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. &a mp;n bsp; murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 19:20:47 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <463140.66626.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i meant delightedness ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 7:15:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse but I hope i may have recovered somewhat with this -- added on thing. Weiner seemed unusually proud of his bulging underpants, >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > >Weiner, sexually & congressionally sparked spankly pranks. . June, record high heat. Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. & no one notices this scandal. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery. Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while. Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars, murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. &a mp;n bsp; murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 19:29:43 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:29:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading in Portland, OR! Message-ID: Spare Room Presents Sam Truitt and Sam Lohmann Sunday, June 12th * *7:30 * * * *Open Space Cafe 2815 SE Holgate * *$5.00 suggested donation* *Sam Truitt* was born in Washington, DC, and raised there and in Tokyo, Japan. He is the author of the forthcoming *Vertical Elegies 6: Street Mete* (Station Hill, 2011) and the previously published *Vertical Elegies: Three Works* (UDP, 2008), *Vertical Elegies 5: The Section* (Georgia, 2003) and *Anamorphosis Eisenhower* (Lost Roads, 1998), among other books. Currently he teaches in the Language and Thinking Workshop at Bard College and is the Managing Director of Station Hill Press. He lives with Kim Jaye and their daughters, Indiana and Evangeline, in the Mid-Hudson Valley. *Sam Lohmann* is a member of Spare Room. He co-edits Airfoil chapbooks with David Abel, and edits Peaches and Bats, a handmade poetry fanzine. He lives in Portland and works at a preschool. c_L has just released a chapbook, *Lines on Canvas or What I Know or Have Seen of His Life*. *The Uses of Measure are Prosperous* a woman is smoking her head is on fire (sun) her hair aflame nothing lasts * Sam Truitt* My shimmy has some dudgeon in it it gets that way it gets on you you permanent wave standing and gelling in the crowd no motion if you give up on cause and caution close your eyes and see the Giant's Causeway with slight foxing and explanatory arrows *Sam Lohmann* * * * * *Maryrose Larkin, for Spare Room* * * ***Maryrose Larkin* *Writer/Researcher* Now available: Marrowing< http://airfoilchapbooks.blogspot.com/2011/02/marrowing-by-maryrose-larkin.html > http://maryroselarkin.blogspot.com http://www.northwestresearch.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 19:46:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] iii. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <936535.34145.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> He persisted in his folly (lack of impluse control) as Halvard Johnson had just completed a thought -- The speaker cannot recover his youth. He discovers these lines on the listserv: The wind this week is shut down for repairs. The speaker writes: The tornado roared off the lot with a 3 day warranty. The wind, off the chart, blows west. all those words sentenced to time served was the self a fiction? the weather alone seemed real. time ... what makes it possible for everything not to happen all at once -- the most solemn word of the week is now. we meet again in the once upon -- ... the same hand I've shook a thousand times, & I've failed to recognize it. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 12:50:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] iii. iii. all those words sentenced to time served "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 8 22:07:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:07:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> Message-ID: <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> We are the invasive species. -----Original Message----- From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' We are the aliens! G. E. Schwartz Agreed! k (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week when I > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the illegal > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer opens a > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , "NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > Answers here - http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > Cheers, > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 8 22:21:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:21:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] we have met the aliens and they are us Message-ID: <8CDF46303DC5FAB-1E48-47CF0@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> You are an advanced race of beings, you have figured out how to tear ass across millions of light years with time in your wake, yet you are intensely interested in a planet that can't get it's shit together, whose inhabitants persist on killing one another over race, religion, power,? You are not as bright as you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 8 22:43:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:43:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QWxpZW5zIOKAnFLigJ0gVXM=?= Message-ID: <8CDF4663374D62B-1E48-48098@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Aliens ?R? Us You are certainly advanced beings, you have figured out how to tear ass across millions of light years with time in your wake, yet you are intensely interested in a planet that can't get its shit together, whose inhabitants persist on killing one another over race, religion, power,? You are not as bright as you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 23:25:14 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 20:25:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this weekend...all in the name of research of course. And yes, in Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. It's a ranch near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. Hopelessly new age, but the videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue me. If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. k (a complete skeptic) On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > We are the invasive species. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > > > We are the aliens! > > G. E. Schwartz >> Agreed! >> >> k >> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: >> > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week >> > when I >> > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the >> > illegal >> > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer >> > opens a >> > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: amy king >> > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM >> > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , >> > "NewPoetry: >> > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, >> > do >> > they write poetry?' >> > >> > Answers here - >> > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm >> > Cheers, >> > Amy >> > >> > ********* >> > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >> > +?Interviews >> > Amy's Alias >> > +?http://amyking.org/ >> > ******** >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> k >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jun 8 23:53:02 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:53:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: Message-ID: <28892433.1307591583256.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Wish I could go, too. Take notes, pictures. -----Original Message----- >From: karen >Sent: Jun 8, 2011 11:25 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' > >I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this >weekend...all in the name of research of course. And yes, in >Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... > >You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. It's a ranch >near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. Hopelessly new age, but the >videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue >me. If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. > >k (a complete skeptic) > >On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, wrote: >> We are the invasive species. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >> possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do >> they write poetry?' >> >> >> >> We are the aliens! >> >> G. E. Schwartz >>> Agreed! >>> >>> k >>> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: >>> > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week >>> > when I >>> > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the >>> > illegal >>> > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer >>> > opens a >>> > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: amy king >>> > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM >>> > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , >>> > "NewPoetry: >>> > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List >>> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >>> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, >>> > do >>> > they write poetry?' >>> > >>> > Answers here - >>> > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm >>> > Cheers, >>> > Amy >>> > >>> > ********* >>> > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>> > +?Interviews >>> > Amy's Alias >>> > +?http://amyking.org/ >>> > ******** >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> k >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > >-- >k >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 03:29:35 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 00:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <463140.66626.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <463140.66626.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <961059.59726.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's a shame,?"delightness" was my favorite part of the poem. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 1:20:47 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse i meant delightedness ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 7:15:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse but I hope i may have recovered somewhat with this --? added on thing. Weiner seemed unusually proud of his bulging underpants, >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > >Weiner, sexually &?congressionally?sparked spankly pranks. ??????????????????????????????????? . June, record high heat. Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. & no one notices this scandal. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery.? Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while.? Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- From? ? : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent? ? : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To? ? ? : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc? ? ? : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? &a mp;n bsp;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 09:11:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 06:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?b?QWxpZW5zIOKAnFLigJ0gVXM=?= In-Reply-To: <8CDF4663374D62B-1E48-48098@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF4663374D62B-1E48-48098@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <232072.47662.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> 6 story sci-fi -- The Maritians fled are polluted planet. ******************************************** Was the little?alien ?green before he landed in "paradise"? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 10:43:51 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Aliens ?R? Us Aliens ?R? Us ? You are certainly advanced beings, you have figured out how to tear ass across millions of light years with time in your wake, yet you are intensely interested in a planet that can't get its shit together, whose inhabitants persist on killing one another over race, religion, power,? ? You are not as bright as you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 09:15:50 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <961059.59726.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <463140.66626.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <961059.59726.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <963559.24990.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> deliberately misspell the word, instead of spelling it in my wrongly unorthodox fashion ... maybe .... maybe ... ________________________________ From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 3:29:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse That's a shame,?"delightness" was my favorite part of the poem. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 1:20:47 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse i meant delightedness ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 7:15:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse but I hope i may have recovered somewhat with this --? added on thing. Weiner seemed unusually proud of his bulging underpants, >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > >Weiner, sexually &?congressionally?sparked spankly pranks. ??????????????????????????????????? . June, record high heat. Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. & no one notices this scandal. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery.? Am doing okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably won't make many posts for a while.? Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a dementedly unlimerickly limerick. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- From? ? : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent? ? : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM To? ? ? : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc? ? ? : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse or this one ... i can't decide ... Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic bars,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse limericky yours/whomever: Footnotes so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde anthology. she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of cosmology. although her buddy is Harold Bloom, she's mostly inspired by the moon. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? &a mp;n bsp;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? murmuring commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 10:46:41 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 07:46:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Slightly changing the subject. Ursula LeGuin, mostly know for writing speculative fiction, also has a couple of books of poetry out. There's also some "slipstream" writers/zines like Illumen. As far as I can tell the consensus is against the existence of actual aliens anywhere near our solar system. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:25 PM, karen wrote: > I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this > weekend...all in the name of research of course. And yes, in > Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... > > You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. It's a ranch > near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. Hopelessly new age, but the > videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue > me. If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. > > k (a complete skeptic) > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > > We are the invasive species. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by > the > > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, > do > > they write poetry?' > > > > > > > > We are the aliens! > > > > G. E. Schwartz > >> Agreed! > >> > >> k > >> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > >> > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week > >> > when I > >> > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the > >> > illegal > >> > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer > >> > opens a > >> > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: amy king > >> > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM > >> > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , > >> > "NewPoetry: > >> > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List > >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > >> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if > so, > >> > do > >> > they write poetry?' > >> > > >> > Answers here - > >> > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm > >> > Cheers, > >> > Amy > >> > > >> > ********* > >> > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > >> > + Interviews > >> > Amy's Alias > >> > + http://amyking.org/ > >> > ******** > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> k > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > k > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 10:51:48 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 07:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <544978.52364.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> But ... & can't spell his name ... the physcisist .... Mishio Kukio ... in fact, i can't spell ... does believe in alien life in the universe. Ditto Carl Sagan. Gene Wolfe, perhaps the greatest American Sci Fi writer, should try his hand at proems. But the guy has a habit of writing epic prose. ________________________________ From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 10:46:41 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Slightly changing the subject. Ursula LeGuin, mostly know for writing speculative fiction, also has a couple of books of poetry out. There's also some "slipstream" writers/zines like Illumen. As far as I can tell the consensus is against the existence of actual aliens anywhere near our solar system. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:25 PM, karen wrote: I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this >weekend...all in the name of research of course. ?And yes, in >Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... > >You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. ?It's a ranch >near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. ?Hopelessly new age, but the >videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue >me. ?If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. > >k (a complete skeptic) > > >On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, ? wrote: >> We are the invasive species. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >> possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do >> they write poetry?' >> >> >> >> We are the aliens! >> >> G. E. Schwartz >>> Agreed! >>> >>> k >>> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, ? wrote: >>> > I've known Rae for almost 20 years, and saw her probably once a week >>> > when I >>> > lived in San Diego. The subject of space aliens (as opposed to the >>> > illegal >>> > kind that everybody knows in San Diego) never came up. Rae's answer >>> > opens a >>> > wonderful landscape. Very much worth the reading. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: amy king >>> > Sent: Jun 6, 2011 4:18 PM >>> > To: "pussipo at googlegroups.com" , UB Poetics discussion group , >>> > "NewPoetry: >>> > Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , Discussion of Women's Poetry List >>> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the >>> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, >>> > do >>> > they write poetry?' >>> > >>> > Answers here - >>> > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Armantrout%20interview.htm >>> > Cheers, >>> > Amy >>> > >>> > ********* >>> > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >>> > +?Interviews >>> > Amy's Alias >>> > +?http://amyking.org/ >>> > ******** >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> k >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > >-- >k >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 9 11:04:16 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 10:04:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Encountering Frank O'Hara Message-ID: Nice article by a Canadian poet, Karen Solie, from a British journal, *Magma*, about this quintessentially American poet: http://magmapoetry.com/archive/magma-48/articles/encountering-frank-ohara/ "And I came to realize that the power of detail does not lie solely in what the particular details are, but alsoin that they are details. They spoke to my experience of the particular, how it triggers and resonates, shines with the significance of a moment. I suspected I could write my own. That they might act likewise. That, however mundane, pedestrian, provincial, hickish they seemed to me, the highways and farm machinery and gravel roads and coyotes that populated my landscape could be made to signify, and sing. Not that I could do it, necessarily, but that it could be done." --Karen Solie ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 10:57:28 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:57:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another on Weiner. (A name made for the limerick!) Message-ID: Then there was Congressman Weiner Who claims he never had seen her. He questioned his parts, Inventoried his larks, But in the end they roasted his leaner. This is, of course, not better, Only more slavishly follows the common meter of the form. The other thing to say is that I really liked the man. He was forceful and intelligent. I'm sad to have lost his voice (for it seems like it will forever lose the moral force it once had). On the other hand, a joke's a joke, a poem's a poem. One comes and I grab. I also think Weiner, judging from his intelligence, has a fine sense of humor and would appreciate the joke. I hope so, at least. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 9 11:45:53 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 10:45:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yet Another on Weiner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's David Kirby's Weiner limerick. Posted on his Facebook page, so I guess there's no harm in sharing it. As even Congressman Weiner now knows, stuff you put online may show up all over the place.... Tony Weiner declared with a laugh, "Let's divide the wheat from the chaff: By no means was I sexting. I was simply selecting An assistant to sit on my staff." --David Kirby. Facebook status update 6/9/11 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > Then there was Congressman Weiner > Who claims he never had seen her. > He questioned his parts, > Inventoried his larks, > But in the end they roasted his leaner. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 11:49:48 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Encountering Frank O'Hara In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, thanks for this. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:04 AM, David Graham wrote: > Nice article by a Canadian poet, Karen Solie, from a British journal, > *Magma*, about this quintessentially American poet: > > * > http://magmapoetry.com/archive/magma-48/articles/encountering-frank-ohara/ > * > > ** > > *"And I came to realize that the power of detail does not lie solely in > what the particular details are, but alsoin that they are details. They > spoke to my experience of the particular, how it triggers and resonates, > shines with the significance of a moment. I suspected I could write my own. > That they might act likewise. That, however mundane, pedestrian, provincial, > hickish they seemed to me, the highways and farm machinery and gravel roads > and coyotes that populated my landscape could be made to signify, and sing. > Not that I could do it, necessarily, but that it could be done."* > *--Karen Solie* > * > * > > * > * > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 9 11:50:24 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 11:50:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester University Poetry Conference broadens its scope Message-ID: <8CDF4D414CDA988-858-18E0A@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/123528594.html West Chester University Poetry Conference broadens its scope By John Timpane Inquirer Staff Writer It's the renewal of a great tradition - with something new added. One of the nation's most eminent poetry conferences began Wednesday. Since 1995, the West Chester University Poetry Conference has attracted poets from all over, concentrating on craft, music, storytelling, reviewing, readings, panels, and much else. This year, about 250 poets have registered. Between them and folks who walk in, director Kim Bridgford, who is helming her first West Chester conference, looks for about 300 poets to assemble. "It's one of the greatest privileges of my life," says Bridgford, a professor of English at West Chester. "The conference is so rich, and has such a history." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 15:40:56 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Yet Another on Weiner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <262645.68849.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Kirby, as the kids say, rocks. Too bad I never took a class from him when I was an FSU Seminole. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 11:45:53 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yet Another on Weiner Here's David Kirby's Weiner limerick. ?Posted on his Facebook page, so I guess there's no harm in sharing it. ?As even Congressman Weiner now knows, stuff you put online may show up all over the place.... Tony Weiner declared with a laugh, "Let's divide the wheat from the chaff: By no means was I sexting. I was simply selecting An assistant to sit on my staff." --David Kirby.? Facebook status update 6/9/11 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > >Then there was Congressman Weiner >Who claims he never had seen her. >?? He questioned his parts, >?? Inventoried his larks, >But in the end they roasted his leaner. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 15:50:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Happiness Message-ID: <92233.77304.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> perhaps my greatest poem: Happiness fishtank fAt with GolDfish ? ..................................... ..................................... ..................................... ..................................... ? ... get fed -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 16:08:12 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:08:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happiness In-Reply-To: <92233.77304.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <92233.77304.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oops. Thought we were going to have a Tod Solandz moment here. Maybe next time. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:50 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > perhaps my greatest poem: > > > > Happiness > > > fishtank fAt with GolD*fish* > ** > ..................................... > *.....................................* > ..................................... > *.....................................* > ** > ... get fed -- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 06:14:09 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:14:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <963559.24990.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <56f0d3af30fe4c6ea6de25873e2d1dd8.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <909348.61937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <463140.66626.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <961059.59726.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <963559.24990.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As much as: incompetatnt gives quite the idea,.Bob? On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > deliberately misspell the word, instead of spelling it in my wrongly > unorthodox fashion ... maybe .... maybe ... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alexander Dickow > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 9, 2011 3:29:35 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > That's a shame, "delightness" was my favorite part of the poem. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 9, 2011 1:20:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > i meant delightedness > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, June 8, 2011 7:15:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > but I hope i may have recovered somewhat with this -- added on thing. > > Weiner seemed unusually proud of his bulging underpants, > >each girlfriend caught online thanks to happenstance. > > > >Although Weiner claimed contriteness, > >amid the spotlight of the media's delightness, > > > >Weiner, sexually & congressionally sparked spankly pranks. > . > > June, record high heat. > Hanker-chief drenched in sweat. > & no one notices this scandal. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Wed, June 8, 2011 5:53:59 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > > Just a note to let my many fans know I survived my hip surgery. Am doing > okay but very busy with rehabbing, and resting from rehabbing, so probably > won't make many posts for a while. Had to wonder here, though, how Stephen > could connect the "hippest, avant-garde anthology," and Vispo, with > someone whose buddy is the super-reactionary Harold Bloom, even in a > dementedly unlimerickly limerick. > > --Bob > > > ------- Original Message ------- > From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] > Sent : 6/7/2011 10:52:17 AM > To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Cc : > Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > or this one ... i can't decide ... > > > > > Footnotes > > > > > > so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde > anthology. > she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of > cosmology. > > although her buddy is Harold Bloom, > she's mostly inspired by the moon. > > when she's not obssessed with stars, she's haunts cosmic > bars, > murmuring commets > trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. > > > > > > From: stephen russell > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 9:59:40 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse > > > > limericky yours/whomever: > > > > > Footnotes > > > > > > so there goes our little Ms. Muse, enlightening the hippest, avant- garde > anthology. > she knows her Vispo, shook hands with Christo, is a demigod to students of > cosmology. > > although her buddy is Harold Bloom, > she's mostly inspired by the moon. > > > &a > mp;n bsp; murmuring > commets trace her verbal, pyrotechnical displays of ontology. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 10 08:27:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:27:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Message-ID: ------- Original Message ------- >From : Anny Ballardini[mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com] Sent : 6/10/2011 6:14:09 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse As much as: incompetatnt gives quite the idea,.Bob? Good infraverbal thinking, Anny! Mr. infrAverbull On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM, stephen russell wrote: deliberately misspell the word, instead of spelling it in my wrongly unorthodox fashion ... maybe .... maybe ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 10 09:39:12 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 06:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <678351.99874.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> inept. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 8:27:32 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse ------- Original Message ------- From : Anny Ballardini[mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com] Sent : 6/10/2011 6:14:09 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse As much as: incompetatnt gives quite the idea,.Bob? Good infraverbal thinking, Anny! Mr. infrAverbull On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM, stephen russell wrote: deliberately misspell the word, instead of spelling it in my wrongly unorthodox fashion ... maybe .... maybe ... > > >? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 10 11:52:34 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:52:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] digital Waste Land Message-ID: <8CDF59D8C4146E5-17C4-DD72@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-lundberg/raising-the-bar-for-digit_b_874764.html John Lundberg Raising the Bar for Digital Poetry Posted: 06/10/11 10:37 AM ET T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land," one of the truly revolutionary poems in the English language, is now breaking new ground for poetry on the iPad. Faber and Touch Press have teamed up to create a new "The Waste Land" app, an ambitious effort to, as they put it, "vividly [showcase] the iPad's capabilities as a platform for literature." The app is just the beginning of an effort "to re-imagine poetry for the digital age," bringing it off the page and into life in various media, and offering -- at the reader's request -- interactive annotation and targeted guidance from dozens of experts with the tap of a finger. = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jun 10 11:55:47 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:55:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] digital Waste Land In-Reply-To: <8CDF59D8C4146E5-17C4-DD72@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF59D8C4146E5-17C4-DD72@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <38007033-31CF-4512-B9B7-814CBAA7F4C5@ripon.edu> Very interesting news. But I'd be happy if they could just get the typography right on regular e-books of poetry. It's pretty disappointing so far. Lots of poetry just comes out as prose, or else the lineation and spacing are all screwed up. "Just the beginning" indeed. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:52 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-lundberg/raising-the-bar-for-digit_b_874764.html > > John Lundberg > Raising the Bar for Digital Poetry > Posted: 06/10/11 10:37 AM ET > > T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land," one of the truly revolutionary poems in the English language, is now breaking new ground for poetry on the iPad. Faber and Touch Press have teamed up to create a new "The Waste Land" app, an ambitious effort to, as they put it, "vividly [showcase] the iPad's capabilities as a platform for literature." The app is just the beginning of an effort "to re-imagine poetry for the digital age," bringing it off the page and into life in various media, and offering -- at the reader's request -- interactive annotation and targeted guidance from dozens of experts with the tap of a finger. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 10 12:11:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:11:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse Message-ID: <24f29ef585764c77be3b30a0e95b4744.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/10/2011 9:39:12 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse inept. Sorry, Stephen, I don't follow. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 10 13:27:42 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:27:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <544978.52364.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01><8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> <544978.52364.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDF5AAD6C38259-17F4-9A54F@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/pioneer/other/plaque.html The result was that Burgess and Hoagland approached Dr. Carl Sagan, Director of the Laboratory of Planetary Studies, Cornell University, who was then visiting the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, in connection with Mariner 9's mission to Mars. A short while earlier, Dr. Sagan had been involved in a conference in the Crimea devoted to the problems of communicating with extraterrestrial intelligences and, together with Dr. Frank Drake, Director of the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, Cornell University, had designed one type of message that might be used to communicate with an alien intelligence. Dr. Sagan was enthusiastic about the idea of a message on the Pioneer spacecraft. He and Dr. Drake designed a plaque, and Linda Salzman Sagan prepared the artwork. The design was presented to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration; they accepted it for this first Pioneer from our Solar System into the Galaxy. The plaque design was etched into a gold- anodized aluminum plate 15.25 by 22.8 cm (6 by 9 in.) and 0.127 cm (0.05 in.) thick. This plate was attached to the antenna support struts of the spacecraft in a position where it would be shielded from erosion by interstellar dust [illustration]. http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/pioneer/other/plaque.gif [Note: It was the early 70s, people were chillin', getting naked, waving to friendly life-forms of all sorts.] -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:51 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' But ... & can't spell his name ... the physcisist .... Mishio Kukio ... in fact, i can't spell ... does believe in alien life in the universe. Ditto Carl Sagan. Gene Wolfe, perhaps the greatest American Sci Fi writer, should try his hand at proems. But the guy has a habit of writing epic prose. From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 10:46:41 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Slightly changing the subject. Ursula LeGuin, mostly know for writing speculative fiction, also has a couple of books of poetry out. There's also some "slipstream" writers/zines like Illumen. As far as I can tell the consensus is against the existence of actual aliens anywhere near our solar system. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:25 PM, karen wrote: I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this weekend...all in the name of research of course. And yes, in Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. It's a ranch near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. Hopelessly new age, but the videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue me. If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. k (a complete skeptic) On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > We are the invasive species. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > > > We are the aliens! > > G. E. Schwartz >> Agreed! >> >> k >> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jun 10 13:50:22 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:50:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' Message-ID: <18768398.1307728222637.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 13:55:24 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:55:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: <8CDF5AAD6C38259-17F4-9A54F@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01> <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com> <544978.52364.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDF5AAD6C38259-17F4-9A54F@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We are all ___believers. On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:27 PM, wrote: > http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/pioneer/other/plaque.html > > The result was that Burgess and Hoagland approached Dr. Carl Sagan, > Director of the Laboratory of Planetary Studies, Cornell University, who was > then visiting the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, in connection with > Mariner 9's mission to Mars. A short while earlier, Dr. Sagan had been > involved in a conference in the Crimea devoted to the problems of > communicating with extraterrestrial intelligences and, together with Dr. > Frank Drake, Director of the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, > Cornell University, had designed one type of message that might be used to > communicate with an alien intelligence. > > Dr. Sagan was enthusiastic about the idea of a message on the Pioneer > spacecraft. He and Dr. Drake designed a plaque, and Linda Salzman Sagan > prepared the artwork. The design was presented to the National Aeronautics > and Space Administration; they accepted it for this first Pioneer from our > Solar System into the Galaxy. > > The plaque design was etched into a gold- anodized aluminum plate 15.25 by > 22.8 cm (6 by 9 in.) and 0.127 cm (0.05 in.) thick. This plate was attached > to the antenna support struts of the spacecraft in a position where it would > be shielded from erosion by interstellar dust [illustration]. > > > http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/pioneer/other/plaque.gif > [Note: It was the early 70s, people were chillin', getting naked, waving > to friendly life-forms of all sorts.] > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:51 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by the > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do > they write poetry?' > > But ... & can't spell his name ... the physcisist .... Mishio Kukio ... > in fact, i can't spell ... does believe in alien life in the *universe. *Ditto > Carl Sagan. > Gene Wolfe, perhaps the greatest American Sci Fi writer, should try his > hand at proems. But the guy has a habit of writing epic prose. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* carol dorf > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 9, 2011 10:46:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by > the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, > do they write poetry?' > > Slightly changing the subject. Ursula LeGuin, mostly know for writing > speculative fiction, also has a couple of books of poetry out. There's also > some "slipstream" writers/zines like Illumen. As far as I can tell the > consensus is against the existence of actual aliens anywhere near our solar > system. > > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:25 PM, karen wrote: > >> I'm actually going camping at a UFO ranch in southern Washington this >> weekend...all in the name of research of course. And yes, in >> Washington, we do have UFO ranches. Or at least one... >> >> You can look it up for yourself on youtube if curious. It's a ranch >> near Mt. Adams called the Eceti ranch. Hopelessly new age, but the >> videos and the psychology of the whole thing were enough to intrigue >> me. If nothing else, it's a great place to just camp. >> >> k (a complete skeptic) >> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM, wrote: >> > We are the invasive species. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com >> > To: NewPoetry List >> > Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 3:16 pm >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rae Armantrout: "Are you at all intrigued by >> the >> > possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, >> do >> > they write poetry?' >> > >> > >> > >> > We are the aliens! >> > >> > G. E. Schwartz >> >> Agreed! >> >> >> >> k >> >> (who is also writing poems about space aliens and the paranormal) >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 14:25:53 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:25:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mt. St. Helen's Says Hello Message-ID: Mt. St. Helen?s Says Hello Come over, come over. Red Rover, Fred Rover. Magma cum laude. Dead Rover. Come over. Lava flow freely. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Jun 10 14:49:06 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 18:49:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Are you at all intrigued by the possibility of alien life? Do you think aliens use language, and if so, do they write poetry?' In-Reply-To: References: <20110607191632.3BMI0.155735.root@hrndva-web27-z01>, <8CDF46125816C5B-1E48-47C09@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>, , , <544978.52364.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <8CDF5AAD6C38259-17F4-9A54F@webmail-d137.sysops.aol.com>, Message-ID: sTeVe BaSsEtT "Oh, Incurious Yeons, stretching from here to the stars. That, whatever that is, don't pay'em no never more no mind you're right!" R.c. DoTy." --SaGaN, a double agent, er, Dr. DoNaLd H. mEnZeL." A dilemma with more than two options. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 10 15:51:53 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:51:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brodsky bio Message-ID: <8CDF5BEFB37F119-329C-179AE@webmail-d127.sysops.aol.com> http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2011/05/23/110523crat_atlarge_gessen?currentPage=all ?We never had a room of our own to lure our girls into, nor did our girls have rooms,? Brodsky later wrote from his American exile. He had half a room, separated from his parents? room by bookshelves and some curtains. ?Our love affairs were mostly walking and talking affairs; it would make an astronomical sum if we were charged for mileage.? The woman with whom Brodsky had been walking and talking for two years, the woman who broke up the magical chorus, was Marina Basmanova, a young painter. Contemporaries describe her as enchantingly silent and beautiful. Brodsky dedicated some of the Russian language?s most powerful love poetry to her. ?I was only that which / you touched with your palm,? he wrote, ?over which, in the deaf, raven-black / night, you bent your head. . . . / I was practically blind. / You, appearing, then hiding, / taught me to see.? = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 19:07:33 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:07:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] digital Waste Land In-Reply-To: <38007033-31CF-4512-B9B7-814CBAA7F4C5@ripon.edu> References: <8CDF59D8C4146E5-17C4-DD72@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> <38007033-31CF-4512-B9B7-814CBAA7F4C5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Interesting -- there was a journal -- escapes me now -- that published notes to poems; I sent them something (I forgot which poem I did notes for) and the editor said, basically, this is what you'd find out doing internet searches on the text. Which -- hmmm. That's what it was, but why, say, use an app w/canned notes instead of HTML5 and ye olde internet access on iPad/SmartPhone to look up Phineas or translate Greek? Which is better for students? Rgds, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 20:38:14 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:38:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bloomsday, get ready! Message-ID: Here's the Joyce info -- I did the tweets for Rudolph Bloom. There's also a really cool map of where we are -- not many on the West Coast. James Joyce *@11ysses* Dublin (via Baltimore) What happens when the world recasts 'Ulysses' 140 characters at a time? Find out here on Bloomsday, 16 June 2011. http://11ysses.wordpress.com/ xo, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 15:05:04 -0700 Subject: miss you... From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com To: llouden at hotmail.com Ron's out of town father's day weekend -- I know that you have soo many responsibilities -- I am having a slumber party the 18th -- even if you can't come, please consider a sleepover (or can I sack out there?) this summer peace and love Kasia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 10 21:53:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:53:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Franz Kappus Message-ID: <8CDF5F172B33982-15E0-2BE7@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Franz Kappus At their first meeting, Rilke strode from across the street to the caf?, and Kappus rose and greeted the famous poet with a slap across the face. Rilke was stunned. Krappus was firm. The man before him had overstepped, had transgressed. When Rilke recovered his composure, he immediately shifted into the philosophical, the words he?d written in all generosity, so obviously misunderstood by Mr. Kappus. And Kappus slapped him again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 03:11:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 09:11:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Hatters Calling! Message-ID: Mad Hatters? Review is an online journal with a collaborative spirit that caters to an international audience with an appreciation for wit, whimsy, dark humor, satire, lyricism, rhythm, word play and post postmodern post avant-garde literature, art, music, politics, films, columns, book reviews, interviews, scratch n sniff projects, collages, literary audios, etc. We at MHR see the Mad Hatters? Review Blog as a gathering place for courtiers of spoken and unspoken words, inventive images and music, and of course, the mad at heart, to stay informed and invigorated. Our multi-media landscape is featuring poetry, flash fiction, interviews, reviews, visuals, audios, and contributors? news?in short, whatever strikes hosts and editors Marc Vincenz and Susan Lewis, and occasionally publisher Carol Novack,as intriguing or enlightening for freethinking arts enthusiasts everywhere. *Check our non-profit organization's new website for the latest on the MadHat?s Little Mountain Retreat in Asheville, North Carolina, and MadHat Press?s Wild and Wyrd Poetry Chapbook Contest ?to be judged by the quintessentially mind-bending Philly poet CAConrad, and subscribe (free) to MHR's newsletter for infrequent updates you may not catch on our blog.* The Mad Hatters? Review Blog welcomes submissions of single poems, flash fictions, short interviews, audio works, visuals, multimedia pieces and reviews all year round. For poems, we prefer no more than 20 lines. For flash fictions, preferably no more than 300 words. Please include a short biography. Include the name of your piece in the Submission Title. No multiple or simultaneous submissions. We answer within 14 days, but more likely within 24 hours. ONE poem (20 lines max) ONE flash fiction (300 words max) ONE mini interview (3 ? 5 questions) ONE review (500 words max) Submissions of previously published poems and flash fictions may be considered as long as authors own the copyrights and the works were published in a print mag or defunct online journal. Please submit to: http://madhatter.submishmash.com/Submit For audio, visuals and multimedia pieces, please query first: mhrblog at madhatarts.com ___ *http://www.madhatarts.com* LIKE us on FACEBOOK -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 11 03:40:00 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 00:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Franz Kappus In-Reply-To: <8CDF5F172B33982-15E0-2BE7@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF5F172B33982-15E0-2BE7@Webmail-m108.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <477050.28482.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rilke l'a m?rit?. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 3:53:08 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Franz Kappus Franz Kappus At their first meeting, Rilke strode from across the street to the caf?, and Kappus rose and greeted the famous poet with a slap across the face. Rilke was stunned. Krappus was firm. The man before him had overstepped, had transgressed. When Rilke recovered his composure, he immediately shifted into the philosophical, the words he?d written in all generosity, so obviously misunderstood by Mr. Kappus. And Kappus slapped him again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jun 11 14:58:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 14:58:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> I've been typing excerpts for David Orr's beautiful & pointless preparatory to doing a full critique of it. I'm curious how people at New-Poetry take the following two paragraphs from it (pp171-172). I think they may be the two stupidest paragraphs ever written about poetry. --Bob First, of course, there?s the matter of poetry and language. Possibly you recall being told in a long-ago English class that language itself is only ?fossil poetry? (Emerson); maybe you remember hearing that poetry is supposed to be ?the best words in the best order? (Coleridge); perhaps you?ve even run across the contention that poetry is ?the universal language which the heart holds with nature and itself? (Hazlitt). To pick a more recent quotation, you may have happened upon Pulitzer Prize winner and former poet laureate Rita Dove?s declaration that ?[p]oetry is language at its most distilled and most powerful.? All of these assertions represent what we might call the ?Poetry as Super Language? school of thinking, and as you can see, that school inclines toward the not exactly modest. Indeed, whenever a contemporary poet starts talking like this--and there are plenty of examples--the conversation often becomes increasingly grandiloquent, as if the poet in question has just finished watching the extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring and is now imagining himself striding like Gandalf across some vast subterranean space, preparing to wield the sacred fire, Poetry, against a profoundly unlucky Balrog. This excessiveness obscures an insecurity, or at least an uncertainty. Because the more one thinks about these claims, the more unlikely it seems that poetry has a unique association with ?language.? Language, after all, is big. At any given moment, over a billion people are speaking or writing in English--do we imagine that nearly all these billion people are failing to achieve the coruscating majesty attained by contemporary poets? Do we think that in their silences, interruptions, declarations, and outbursts, these people don?t manage effects that equal or even surpass the richness of contemporary poems? When a parent says, ?I love you? to his or her child, and that child realizes, for the first time, what those words actually mean, do we suppose that poetry--any poetry--could equal the transformative impact of that understanding? A sculptor works with substance that his audience may never have toughed; a musician plays an instrument that his listeners have never mastered. But a poet uses the same words that hundreds of millions of people use every day to marry, fight, console themselves, entertain, grieve, and order cheeseburgers. It seems bold at best to argue that all of these people have somehow failed to ?get? the intricacies of language in the way that a few thousand poets do, much as it would seem bold for an ant clinging to your shoelace to announce, ?Look at me steering this enormous creature!? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 11 15:32:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 12:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse In-Reply-To: <24f29ef585764c77be3b30a0e95b4744.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <24f29ef585764c77be3b30a0e95b4744.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <215466.4710.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> did i do that? i don't mean to send blanks. it's a mistake. nothing to follow. me, not good at multi-tasking. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 12:11:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/10/2011 9:39:12 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Harold Bloom & the Muse inept. Sorry, Stephen, I don't follow. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat Jun 11 15:51:06 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 14:51:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DF3C72A.5050101@louisiana.edu> If my memory serves me rightly, D H Lawrence called _Ulysses_ (or maybe it was the _Wake_) "deliberate journalistic dirty-mindedness," to which Joyce replied that _Lady Chatterly_ was "the usual sloppy English." I hated Orr's book (I confess I didn't finish it), and I'm inclined to take Joyce's ad hominem route--thinking like this is just too trivial, and trivializing, to bother with at all. But because there's a germ of truth in this mess--namely, Jakobson's situation of a "poetic function" of language among five other functions, all (more or less) in play in every utterance--it's probably worth saying at least this. As I read Orr's rhetoric, it's positioning him (not like the elitists, academics, and poseurs of high culture) as a master of sincere cutting-to-the-chase, of offering a "secure" (and superior) model of poetic language based in common sense. But common sense is ideology, pure and simple--everyone's power play over everyone else. That he posits the explanation of poetry precisely in a clumsy image of power (that presumptuous ant! that magnificent unsteerable everyman!) is very telling. The paragraphs BG quotes seem to me characteristic of Orr's rhetoric, which is a typical rhetoric--that of a guy on the make looking for an edge and a leg up in a projected self-(aggrandizing)-image. Again, the usual sloppy English, angling to be a best-seller. Best, Jerry On 6/11/2011 1:58 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > I've been typing excerpts for David Orr's /beautiful & pointless > /preparatory to doing a full critique of it. I'm curious how people > at New-Poetry take the following two paragraphs from it (pp171-172). > I think they may be the two stupidest paragraphs ever written about > poetry. > > --Bob > > First, of course, there?s the matter of poetry and language. > Possibly you recall being told in a long-ago English class that > language itself is only ?fossil poetry? (Emerson); maybe you > remember hearing that poetry is supposed to be ?the best words in > the best order? (Coleridge); perhaps you?ve even run across the > contention that poetry is ?the universal language which the heart > holds with nature and itself? (Hazlitt). To pick a more recent > quotation, you may have happened upon Pulitzer Prize winner and > former poet laureate Rita Dove?s declaration that ?[p]oetry is > language at its most distilled and most powerful.? All of these > assertions represent what we might call the ?Poetry as Super > Language? school of thinking, and as you can see, that school > inclines toward the not exactly modest. Indeed, whenever a > contemporary poet starts talking like this--and there are plenty > of examples--the conversation often becomes increasingly > grandiloquent, as if the poet in question has just finished > watching the extended edition of /The Fellowship of the Ring/ and > is now imagining himself striding like Gandalf across some vast > subterranean space, preparing to wield the sacred fire, Poetry, > against a profoundly unlucky Balrog. > > This excessiveness obscures an insecurity, or at least an > uncertainty. Because the more one thinks about these claims, the > more unlikely it seems that poetry has a unique association with > ?language.? Language, after all, is big. At any given moment, over > a billion people are speaking or writing in English--do we imagine > that nearly all these billion people are failing to achieve the > coruscating majesty attained by contemporary poets? Do we think > that in their silences, interruptions, declarations, and > outbursts, these people don?t manage effects that equal or even > surpass the richness of contemporary poems? When a parent says, ?I > love you? to his or her child, and that child realizes, for the > first time, what those words actually mean, do we suppose that > poetry--/any/ poetry--could equal the transformative impact of > that understanding? A sculptor works with substance that his > audience may never have toughed; a musician plays an instrument > that his listeners have never mastered. But a poet uses the same > words that hundreds of millions of people use every day to marry, > fight, console themselves, entertain, grieve, and order > cheeseburgers. It seems bold at best to argue that all of these > people have somehow failed to ?get? the intricacies of language in > the way that a few thousand poets do, much as it would seem bold > for an ant clinging to your shoelace to announce, ?Look at me > steering this enormous creature!? > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 11 15:45:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 12:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <455493.14860.qm@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I prefer Louis Armstrong's approach: If you have to ask what it is, you don't get it ... but since poetry is made of words, we seem to have this tedious burden, it seems we must, at all cost, Define Poetry. I'll wait for someone else to come up with the answer. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 2:58:04 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless I've been typing excerpts for David Orr's beautiful & pointless preparatory to doing a full critique of it. I'm curious how people at New-Poetry take the following two paragraphs from it (pp171-172). I think they may be the two stupidest paragraphs ever written about poetry. --Bob First, of course, there?s the matter of poetry and language. Possibly you recall being told in a long-ago English class that language itself is only ?fossil poetry? (Emerson); maybe you remember hearing that poetry is supposed to be ?the best words in the best order? (Coleridge); perhaps you?ve even run across the contention that poetry is ?the universal language which the heart holds with nature and itself? (Hazlitt). To pick a more recent quotation, you may have happened upon Pulitzer Prize winner and former poet laureate Rita Dove?s declaration that ?[p]oetry is language at its most distilled and most powerful.? All of these assertions represent what we might call the ?Poetry as Super Language? school of thinking, and as you can see, that school inclines toward the not exactly modest. Indeed, whenever a contemporary poet starts talking like this--and there are plenty of examples--the conversation often becomes increasingly grandiloquent, as if the poet in question has just finished watching the extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring and is now imagining himself striding like Gandalf across some vast subterranean space, preparing to wield the sacred fire, Poetry, against a profoundly unlucky Balrog. >This excessiveness obscures an insecurity, or at least an uncertainty. Because >the more one thinks about these claims, the more unlikely it seems that poetry >has a unique association with ?language.? Language, after all, is big. At any >given moment, over a billion people are speaking or writing in English--do we >imagine that nearly all these billion people are failing to achieve the >coruscating majesty attained by contemporary poets? Do we think that in their >silences, interruptions, declarations, and outbursts, these people don?t manage >effects that equal or even surpass the richness of contemporary poems? When a >parent says, ?I love you? to his or her child, and that child realizes, for the >first time, what those words actually mean, do we suppose that poetry--any >poetry--could equal the transformative impact of that understanding? A sculptor >works with substance that his audience may never have toughed; a musician plays >an instrument that his listeners have never mastered. But a poet uses the same >words that hundreds of millions of people use every day to marry, fight, console >themselves, entertain, grieve, and order cheeseburgers. It seems bold at best to >argue that all of these people have somehow failed to ?get? the intricacies of >language in the way that a few thousand poets do, much as it would seem bold for >an ant clinging to your shoelace to announce, ?Look at me steering this enormous >creature!? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jun 11 16:08:36 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 16:08:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <8a978a4c890b4ace828463afc0f66226.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> I prefer Louis Armstrong's approach: Which is: "if you can't verbalize your conceptual understanding of something, no verbalization of a conceptual understanding of it is possible and those who try to come up with one are fools." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 16:32:53 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:32:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Another tactic? As a young poet and artist, I was taught some pretty strange things (by professors at major universities). One was to fear criticism and to maintain a boundary between creativity and criticism. One was that using language in different ways requires different types of qualification, specialization, and experience. Another is broadening "language" to "languages" -- plurality and transposition and translation. Still yet, "other" languages: those of mathematics or science or ... As an adult, I've learned some weird lessons the hard way, and those have included that people who don't care about language care about using jargon for gatekeeping. BOTH / AND Rgds, C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 11 16:33:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8a978a4c890b4ace828463afc0f66226.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8a978a4c890b4ace828463afc0f66226.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <138226.88388.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> No, Bob, I didn't say that. If anything, I should put more work into my conceptual understanding. In Highschool, when I read Zen & the Art of MotorcycleMaintenance, I considered myself the sort of guy who'd rather know how the cycle runs rather than actually drive the damn thing. It's the other way around now. But without having worked out an elaborate aesthetic, I'd simply, for now, say that poetry is a way of saying something that can't otherwise be said, as the thing being said is altered by its manner of, well, saying (speech). A verbal art form, unlike jazz, does seem to demand verbal (conceptual) clarification. Btw, I'm very interested in Vispo, and other new approaches to poetry. Some of my dopey limericks may have left the wrong impression. Again, I have poor impulse control, and I'm prey to unfortunate District of Columbia mood swings. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 4:08:36 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless I prefer Louis Armstrong's approach: Which is: "if you can't verbalize your conceptual understanding of something, no verbalization of a conceptual understanding of it is possible and those who try to come up with one are fools." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat Jun 11 16:37:10 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:37:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8a978a4c890b4ace828463afc0f66226.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8a978a4c890b4ace828463afc0f66226.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4DF3D1F6.9010106@louisiana.edu> I don't see how "If you have to ask what it is, you'll never know" translates into "those who try to come up with (a definition?) are fools." That seems to miss (or dismiss) Armstrong's mix of humor, generosity, and sadness at the realization that everyone can't get it. If everyone who tries (unsuccessfully) to verbalize a conceptual understanding of something complex is a fool, then I'm a fool, everyone dear to me is a fool, everyone on this list is a fool, and (I suspect) everyone everywhere is a fool. In any case, I think what's important here (i.e., in the paragraphs BG gives us from Orr's book) is bad judgment, bad language, and perhaps bad faith--though that's extremely difficult to establish on the slight evidence available to me. As I said before, it feels to me like the book's slightness is being smokescreened with a kind of self-help attitude that doesn't interest me. Jerry On 6/11/2011 3:08 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > I prefer Louis Armstrong's approach: > > Which is: "if you can't verbalize your conceptual understanding of > something, no verbalization of a conceptual understanding of it is > possible and those who try to come up with one are fools." > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jun 11 17:54:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 17:54:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <207508b278a9454ba307238039ef6d36.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> I see Armstrong's answer as too much "I have a visceral understanding of this, and that's the only kind of understanding that counts"--he feels asking for a conceptual understanding (and I believe conceptual understandings are possible) is foolish, you'll never get anywhere. Yes, his answer is funny, too, and one can sympathize. But I can't with the too-many who grab for Armstrong whenever anyone tries to define the ethereally undefinable --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : Jerry McGuire[mailto:jlm8047 at louisiana.edu] Sent : 6/11/2011 4:37:10 PM To : new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless I don't see how "If you have to ask what it is, you'll never know" translates into "those who try to come up with (a definition?) are fools." That seems to miss (or dismiss) Armstrong's mix of humor, generosity, and sadness at the realization that everyone can't get it. If everyone who tries (unsuccessfully) to verbalize a conceptual understanding of something complex is a fool, then I'm a fool, everyone dear to me is a fool, everyone on this list is a fool, and (I suspect) everyone everywhere is a fool. In any case, I think what's important here (i.e., in the paragraphs BG gives us from Orr's book) is bad judgment, bad language, and perhaps bad faith--though that's extremely difficult to establish on the slight evidence available to me. As I said before, it feels to me like the book's slightness is being smokescreened with a kind of self-help attitude that doesn't interest me. Jerry On 6/11/2011 3:08 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: I prefer Louis Armstrong's approach: Which is: "if you can't verbalize your conceptual understanding of something, no verbalization of a conceptual understanding of it is possible and those who try to come up with one are fools." --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jun 11 18:10:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 18:10:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <8f098d3475a5445e9b5886593442a9fc.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> No, Bob, I didn't say that. If anything, I should put more work into my conceptual understanding. I was popping off at what I take to be the meaning of the Armstrong quotation--hyperbolically. I really didn't think I was indicating what it meant to you--though oppsoing your sympathy with it. Obviously, it happnes to be one of my pet peeves. In Highschool, when I read Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I considered myself the sort of guy who'd rather know how the cycle runs rather than actually drive the damn thing. It's the other way around now. But without having worked out an elaborate aesthetic, I'd simply, for now, say that poetry is a way of saying something that can't otherwise be said, as the thing being said is altered by its manner of, well, saying (speech). A verbal art form, unlike jazz, does seem to demand verbal (conceptual) clarification. I dunno about "demand," but I thin any art including jazz can profit from coneptual clarification. Btw, I'm very interested in Vispo, and other new approaches to poetry. Some of my dopey limericks may have left the wrong impression. Again, I have poor impulse control, and I'm prey to unfortunate District of Columbia mood swings. No need for apologies to me, Stephen. My own impulsive behavior tends to elicit impulsive behavior from others. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jun 11 19:17:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:17:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8163d757aea643b8a9227a4d4a07dcfa.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDF6A4E59CC184-1868-35111@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com> This seems in keeping with Orr's mode of criticism: Gently deflating, casually undercutting... I don't mind him quibbling with definitions. (Sorry, Bob.) However, that bit about the man or the woman on the street understands (or inately knows) the language of poetry, I have to disagree with. All one need do is to take a stroll down the greeting card aisle of a local drugstore. The poetry of the people is well represented in those card racks. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, Jun 11, 2011 2:58 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless I've been typing excerpts for David Orr's beautiful & pointless preparatory to doing a full critique of it. I'm curious how people at New-Poetry take the following two paragraphs from it (pp171-172). I think they may be the two stupidest paragraphs ever written about poetry. --Bob First, of course, there?s the matter of poetry and language. Possibly you recall being told in a long-ago English class that language itself is only ?fossil poetry? (Emerson); maybe you remember hearing that poetry is supposed to be ?the best words in the best order? (Coleridge); perhaps you?ve even run across the contention that poetry is ?the universal language which the heart holds with nature and itself? (Hazlitt). To pick a more recent quotation, you may have happened upon Pulitzer Prize winner and former poet laureate Rita Dove?s declaration that ?[p]oetry is language at its most distilled and most powerful.? All of these assertions represent what we might call the ?Poetry as Super Language? school of thinking, and as you can see, that school inclines toward the not exactly modest. Indeed, whenever a contemporary poet starts talking like this--and there are plenty of examples--the conversation often becomes increasingly grandiloquent, as if the poet in question has just finished watching the extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring and is now imagining himself striding like Gandalf across some vast subterranean space, preparing to wield the sacred fire, Poetry, against a profoundly unlucky Balrog. This excessiveness obscures an insecurity, or at least an uncertainty. Because the more one thinks about these claims, the more unlikely it seems that poetry has a unique association with ?language.? Language, after all, is big. At any given moment, over a billion people are speaking or writing in English--do we imagine that nearly all these billion people are failing to achieve the coruscating majesty attained by contemporary poets? Do we think that in their silences, interruptions, declarations, and outbursts, these people don?t manage effects that equal or even surpass the richness of contemporary poems? When a parent says, ?I love you? to his or her child, and that child realizes, for the first time, what those words actually mean, do we suppose that poetry--any poetry--could equal the transformative impact of that understanding? A sculptor works with substance that his audience may never have toughed; a musician plays an instrument that his listeners have never mastered. But a poet uses the same words that hundreds of millions of people use every day to marry, fight, console themselves, entertain, grieve, and order cheeseburgers. It seems bold at best to argue that all of these people have somehow failed to ?get? the intricacies of language in the way that a few thousand poets do, much as it would seem bold for an ant clinging to your shoelace to announce, ?Look at me steering this enormous creature!? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 01:07:40 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 22:07:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: critics of "documentary poetry"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Harrington, Joseph Date: Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM Subject: critics of "documentary poetry"? To: POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu I am doing an article on documentary poetry, and I'm looking for recent examples of critics who reject docu-po per se - for whatever reason. Maybe you have read such an article (blog post, FB post, etc.)? Or maybe you are one of those critics? If so, I'd like to hear from you. Any leads greatly appreciated! thanks Joe Joseph Harrington Associate Professor Director of Graduate Studies Dept. of English Univ. of Kansas ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 12 09:47:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:47:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <4124b49c73fc4a40b27936f79c6d9042.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : jforjames at aol.com[mailto:jforjames at aol.com] Sent : 6/11/2011 7:17:41 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless This seems in keeping with Orr's mode of criticism: Gently deflating, casually undercutting... I don't mind him quibbling with definitions. (Sorry, Bob.) However, that bit about the man or the woman on the street understands (or inately knows) the language of poetry, I have to disagree with. All one need do is to take a stroll down the greeting card aisle of a local drugstore. The poetry of the people is well represented in those card racks. Finnegan I find him unbelievably foolish far beyond his being limited as a critic to (standard) considerations of only the mainest of mainstream poetry. He seems to know nearly nothing about poetry, and his ability to reason is almost non-existent. He makes people like Bloom, Vendler--and even Rita Dove--seem intelligent. A good test for students of an introductory class in poetry would be to find ten statements as ludicrously stupid in the two paragraphs I quoted as the one you found, Finnegan. If the student can't find six, he flunks. I'll eventually be listing them, and discussing other passages as preposterous. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jun 12 20:16:57 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:16:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Intersections: Architecture and Poetry Message-ID: <8CDF7765749C11C-5C0-1D387@webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com> http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=16761 Intersections: Architecture and Poetry Ayla Lepine introduces an illuminating event which will merge a variety of artistic fields On 3rd-4th June, the Courtauld Institute of Art will be transformed. Architects, artists, poets and academics from 12 countries across four continents will come together for a two-day conference on mutual ground between architecture and poetry. Intersections is divided into six sessions: Ritual and Memory; Process and Construction; Dwelling; Scale and Re-Imaging; Urban Experience; and Bodily Experience. Inspired by recent responses to Gaston Bachelard?s milestone The Poetics of Space, this event will feature film, art installations, live poetry, and presentations from historians and architects. Co-convened by Courtauld lecturers Caroline Levitt and Ayla Lepine, Intersections offers new ways of reading, seeing and experiencing poetry and architecture. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jun 12 21:08:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:08:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] row at The Poetry Society Message-ID: <8CDF77D7AE6D57C-5C0-1D750@webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com> http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk/2011/06/board-coup-leads-to-chaos-in-poets-corner.html Board ?coup? leads to chaos in poets? corner Is there anything so vicious as a fight in the literary world? The Poetry Society has just lost its director Judith Palmer, who resigned after what has been termed ?an internal coup?,... / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 10:09:01 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <8f098d3475a5445e9b5886593442a9fc.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <8f098d3475a5445e9b5886593442a9fc.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <255250.81106.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "I dunno about "demand," but I thin any art including jazz can profit from coneptual clarification." ? Sure, but in an art form such as jazz, coming to a conceptual understanding will probably remain severly limited by merely?sticking to the verbal. One has to understand how the chords are put together and hear how the rhythm section works. ? A book of theory, of course, is composed of words. None-the-less, without seeing and hearing the chords, as well as hearing the the subtle shadings of the bass and drum, it's hard for me to (see) how anyone could come to understand what jazz is about. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 6:10:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless No, Bob, I didn't say that. If anything, I should put more work into my conceptual understanding. I was popping off at what I take to be the meaning of the Armstrong quotation--hyperbolically.? I really didn't think I was indicating what it meant to you--though oppsoing your sympathy with it.? Obviously, it happnes to be one of my pet peeves. In Highschool, when I read Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I considered myself the sort of guy who'd rather know how the cycle runs rather than actually drive the damn thing. It's the other way around now. But without having worked out an elaborate aesthetic, I'd simply, for now, say that poetry is a way of saying something that can't otherwise be said, as the thing being said is altered by its manner of, well, saying (speech). A verbal art form, unlike jazz, does seem to demand verbal (conceptual) clarification. ? I dunno about "demand," but I thin any art including jazz can profit from coneptual clarification. Btw, I'm very interested in Vispo, and other new approaches to poetry. Some of my dopey limericks may have left the wrong impression. Again, I have poor impulse control, and I'm prey to unfortunate District of Columbia mood swings. No need for apologies to me, Stephen.? My own impulsive behavior tends?to elicit impulsive behavior from others. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 11:14:34 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:14:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] row at The Poetry Society In-Reply-To: <8CDF77D7AE6D57C-5C0-1D750@webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF77D7AE6D57C-5C0-1D750@webmail-m019.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The poetry of it: a bouquet of barbs. (But, yes, it would be nice if chaos was in the poet's corner, along with a good trainer and cut-man.) On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 8:08 PM, wrote: > > http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk/2011/06/board-coup-leads-to-chaos-in-poets-corner.html > > Board ?coup? leads to chaos in poets? corner > > Is there anything so vicious as a fight in the literary world? The Poetry > Society has just lost its director Judith Palmer, who resigned after what > has been termed ?an internal coup?,... > > / > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 13 13:01:57 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:01:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: "I dunno about "demand," but I think any art including jazz can profit from coneptual clarification." Sure, but in an art form such as jazz, coming to a conceptual understanding will probably remain severely limited by merely sticking to the verbal. One has to understand how the chords are put together and hear how the rhythm section works. A book of theory, of course, is composed of words. None-the-less, without seeing and hearing the chords, as well as hearing the the subtle shadings of the bass and drum, it's hard for me to (see) how anyone could come to understand what jazz is about. I think you're just saying that what is explained has to be out there somewhere to be perceived, which goes without saying. Very few if any agree with me, but I believe that words ultimately can expain anything (maxilutely, or close enough to completely for any sane person)--except for theinitial premises required. --Bob From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 6:10:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless No, Bob, I didn't say that. If anything, I should put more work into my conceptual understanding. I was popping off at what I take to be the meaning of the Armstrong quotation--hyperbolically. I really didn't think I was indicating what it meant to you--though oppsoing your sympathy with it. Obviously, it happnes to be one of my pet peeves. In Highschool, when I read Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I considered myself the sort of guy who'd rather know how the cycle runs rather than actually drive the damn thing. It's the other way around now. But without having worked out an elaborate aesthetic, I'd simply, for now, say that poetry is a way of saying something that can't otherwise be said, as the thing being said is altered by its manner of, well, saying (speech). A verbal art form, unlike jazz, does seem to demand verbal (conceptual) clarification. I dunno about "demand," but I thin any art including jazz can profit from coneptual clarification. Btw, I'm very interested in Vispo, and other new approaches to poetry. Some of my dopey limericks may have left the wrong impression. Again, I have poor impulse control, and I'm prey to unfortunate District of Columbia mood swings. No need for apologies to me, Stephen. My own impulsive behavior tends to elicit impulsive behavior from others. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 13 13:07:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:07:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] row at The Poetry Society Message-ID: The poetry of it: a bouquet of barbs. (But, yes, it would be nice if chaos was in the poet's corner, along with a good trainer and cut-man.) On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 8:08 PM, wrote: http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk/2011/06/board-coup-leads-to-chaos-in-poets-corner.html Board ?coup? leads to chaos in poets? corner Is there anything so vicious as a fight in the literary world? The Poetry Society has just lost its director Judith Palmer, who resigned after what has been termed ?an internal coup?,... Literary rather than corporate world? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 13:19:21 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:19:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Explain in detail how to stand up, walk, and sit down again. You should be in a good place to do that right now, B-bob. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:01 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > "I dunno about "demand," but I think any art including jazz can profit > from coneptual clarification." > > Sure, but in an art form such as jazz, coming to a conceptual understanding > will probably remain severely limited by merely sticking to the verbal. > > One has to understand how the chords are put together and hear how the > rhythm section works. > > A book of theory, of course, is composed of words. None-the-less, without > seeing and hearing the chords, as well as hearing the the subtle shadings of > the bass and drum, it's hard for me to (see) how anyone could come to > understand what jazz is about. > I think you're just saying that what is explained has to be out there > somewhere to be perceived, which goes without saying. > > Very few if any agree with me, but I believe that words ultimately can > expain anything (maxilutely, or close enough to completely for any sane > person)--except for theinitial premises required. > > --Bob > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sat, June 11, 2011 6:10:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless > > > No, Bob, I didn't say that. If anything, I should put more work into my > conceptual understanding. > > I was popping off at what I take to be the meaning of the Armstrong > quotation--hyperbolically. I really didn't think I was indicating what it > meant to you--though oppsoing your sympathy with it. Obviously, it happnes > to be one of my pet peeves. > > In Highschool, when I read Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I > considered myself the sort of guy who'd rather know how the cycle runs > rather than actually drive the damn thing. It's the other way around now. > But without having worked out an elaborate aesthetic, I'd simply, for now, > say that poetry is a way of saying something that can't otherwise be said, > as the thing being said is altered by its manner of, well, saying (speech). > A verbal art form, unlike jazz, does seem to demand verbal (conceptual) > clarification. > > I dunno about "demand," but I thin any art including jazz can profit from > coneptual clarification. > > Btw, I'm very interested in Vispo, and other new approaches to poetry. Some > of my dopey limericks may have left the wrong impression. Again, I have poor > impulse control, and I'm prey to unfortunate District of Columbia mood > swings. > > No need for apologies to me, Stephen. My own impulsive behavior tends to > elicit impulsive behavior from others. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 13 13:38:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:38:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless Message-ID: <37c0731c670b40f9a58ed1fce0030c49.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Explain in detail how to stand up, walk, and sit down again. You should be in a good place to do that right now, B-bob. Hal Don't have to, Hal: various neurophysiologists have done so well enough for robots to have been constructed who can get up and down. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 13:44:57 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:44:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Orr's beautiful & pointless In-Reply-To: <37c0731c670b40f9a58ed1fce0030c49.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <37c0731c670b40f9a58ed1fce0030c49.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Didn't say you had to, B-bob. Thought you might be up to the challenge. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:38 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > > > Explain in detail how to stand up, walk, and sit down again. You should be > in a good place to do that right now, B-bob. > > > Hal > > Don't have to, Hal: various neurophysiologists have done so well enough for > robots to have been constructed who can get up and down. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 13 14:26:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:26:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NPR: Poet Battles Cancer With A Hundred Poems In-Reply-To: <1105961539991.1100995239360.1151.5.14140055@scheduler> References: <1105961539991.1100995239360.1151.5.14140055@scheduler> Message-ID: <8CDF80E9ACFE315-21DC-1B0A3@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> Happy to report my interview with Jacki Lyden on NPR's Morning Edition Sunday went very well. Also very pleased that NPR posted three of my recorded poems on their site, plus the interview, and one printed poem which was the first one I wrote in this series, Slumber After Surgery. Follow this link to hear the story, POET BATTLES CANCER WITH A HUNDRED POEMS: http://n.pr/iHGJYG. Read all the poems to date on my blog: www.jamesnave.com . Here's yesterday's poem. Enjoy. Last night in a small NY theater on Macdougal Street, I belly laughed when Minton Sparks buck danced her way around stories of open caskets, cigarettes burning around gas pumps, and what happens when you ride in fancy cars on country roads like Highway 23 out of Tennessee, over Sam?s Gap, North Carolina and down the smooth cool grade into the valley I once called home. Even though I?ll tell you I?ve see the sea from the beaches of Mauritania and heard Frank Sanatra sing in Vegas when trouble comes, as it did this winter like a Melugeon fog drifting over the Cherokee land, the Carolinas call and I go home. If you?re planning to join Allegra and me in Taos this August 5-7, please let us know. We're planning a small and intimate workshop 10-12 people, I?d guess. Come, be one of us in the circle at Wired Cafe. Follow this link for all the information: www.imaginativestorm.com . All my best, James Nav? www.imaginativestorm.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 13 16:18:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:18:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Orr Message-ID: <8CDF81E4052DD75-1764-7E7@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> How Poets Achieve Their Styles By DAVID ORR Published: April 22, 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/24/books/review/on-poetry-matthew-zapruder-and-rachel-wetzsteon.html?_r=1 According to conventional wisdom, younger poets are engaged in ?finding their voices? ? a process often described in terms that make it seem like a cross between having an epiphany and having an aneurysm. For instance, here?s Thom Gunn, in his elegy for Robert Duncan, detailing the emergence of Duncan?s distinctive talent: When in his twenties a poetry?s full strength Burst into voice as an unstopping flood, He let the divine prompting (come at length) Rushingly bear him any way it would. . . . Gunn is having a little fun in this portrait, true, but the idea he?s playing with here is an oddly pervasive one... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 13 16:30:47 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:30:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site Message-ID: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a persuading case. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 13 16:51:21 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:51:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 16:59:06 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:59:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Doesn't seem that Orr is of much use to either readers or non-readers of poetry. Just sayin'. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:51 PM, wrote: > What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between > their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide > between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in > mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their > obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity > does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. > > Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which > contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or > library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to > Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it > sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young > professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: > > 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the > poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other > discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much > to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; > > 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to > individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and > > 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more > personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose > names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. > > Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, > but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic > like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of > affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. > > Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the > volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or > Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a > do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The > problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain > inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned > items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, > sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that > many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the > art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical > information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely > of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews > on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually > goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been > very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and > theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to > read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as > watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. > > Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David > Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 13 17:36:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:36:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <655f40d6f6ec4e64b3d506a674213109.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:51 PM, wrote: What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; This my favorite bit--I think I already mentioned it in a previous post. As if there's ever been a discussion of anything resembling an avant garde of poetry in Poetry Magazine during the past forty years. Or more than two or three token specimens of it when the yipping against the magazine's backwardness finally, briefly, got through to its editors. 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, That's pretty funny, too. He really doesn't know how little the books on poetry he is familiar with discuss the many "instruments, classifications, histories" extant beyond . . . W during the past half-century. and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 17:55:58 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:55:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next twenty years, who would notice? A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty years, no one would notice. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: > What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between > their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide > between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in > mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their > obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity > does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. > > Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which > contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or > library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to > Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it > sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young > professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: > > 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the > poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other > discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much > to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; > > 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to > individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and > > 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more > personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose > names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. > > Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, > but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic > like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of > affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. > > Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the > volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or > Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a > do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The > problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain > inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned > items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, > sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that > many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the > art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical > information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely > of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews > on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually > goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been > very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and > theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to > read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as > watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. > > Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David > Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 18:46:08 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:46:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Just as long as we've got Dancing with the Estrellas and AmerIdle. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next > twenty years, who would notice? > > A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty > years, no one would notice. > > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: > >> What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm >> between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the >> divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell >> had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets >> their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their >> clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the >> gannets. >> >> Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which >> contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or >> library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to >> Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it >> sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young >> professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: >> >> 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the >> poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other >> discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much >> to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; >> >> 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to >> individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and >> >> 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more >> personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose >> names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. >> >> Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, >> but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic >> like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of >> affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. >> >> Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are >> the volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First >> Poem or Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a >> do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The >> problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain >> inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned >> items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, >> sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that >> many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the >> art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical >> information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely >> of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews >> on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually >> goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been >> very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and >> theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to >> read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as >> watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. >> >> Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David >> Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 19:11:54 2011 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <101695.10456.qm@web161603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sounds and interesting book. Very nice website, clean and concise... "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos ? ? --- On Mon, 13/6/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, 13 June, 2011, 21:30 http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. ? Finnegan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 20:11:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a persuading case. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 20:37:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF822C8DD800C-219C-FF06@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <39778.73280.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That is so damn depressing ... and probably accurate. ________________________________ From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next twenty years, who would notice? A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty years, no one would notice. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. > >Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which >contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or >library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to >Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds >like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's >r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: > >1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry >world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of >formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without >a subscription to Poetry magazine; > >2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual >poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and > >3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal >detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are >palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. > >Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but >they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like >Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in >which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. > >Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the >volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or >Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself >guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not >that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on >the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & >Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is >usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a >basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's >combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson >that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can >be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how >one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world >has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, >and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to >read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as >watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. > >Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. >Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 20:56:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Even better, marry someone who made that money, or have parents who did. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:11 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & > Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into > the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Orr site > > http://davidorr.com/ > I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD > from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was > probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. > Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes > to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a > persuading case. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Jun 14 00:46:06 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 04:46:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the consensus is against the existence [BLIP!] of actual aliens anywhere near our solar system." Message-ID: MARS: The Barking Dog with Orb Crater (Reull Vallis)Martian orb craters at New Cydonia The MARS report also identifies an apparent ancient Martian art form ? the ?orb crater.? The report states: ?Ruell Vallis is a place where there are apparent craters inside of which humanoid faces have been sculpted. The irregular rims of these craters reveal that they are not the result of impacts by objects from space but rather have resulted from the act of creating the faces themselves. These art objects, which Basiago has named orb craters, are numerous in the ESA image. ?Paranormal researchers will recognize in these works of art the faces found inside of orbs in the orbs phenomenon on Earth. Faces like these are sometimes found staring silently out from the orbs that are captured by digital cameras. The ubiquitous nature of these land forms in the vicinity of Ruell Vallis indicates how? the surface of Mars has been terra-formed into works of art that show a child-like simplicity and spontaneity.? One of these orb craters can be seen on the neck of a large terra-form featuring a barking dog lunging toward the channel of the Ruell Vallis. Three Martian civilizations: Ancient, modern surface, and modern underground With these findings of the New Cydonia complex at Reull Vallis, Andrew D. Basiago?s discoveries have now extended to three categories of intelligent civilization on Mars ? ancient, modern surface, and modern underground Martian civilizations. Basiago sees a Mars-Egypt connection in the artifacts comprising the New Cydonia. The MARS report states, ?This is one of a growing array of artifacts? found on Mars that establish the connection between Ancient Egypt and Ancient Mars, suggesting that in antiquity one was the colony of the other.? He continues: ?My speculation is that Ancient Mars was a colony of Ancient Egypt, rather than vice versa. I say this because Earth had the abundant biosphere that could have sustained ancient civilization in its attempt to reach Mars. The Great Pyramid at Giza and the Great Platform at Baalbek, which may have been an ancient launch pad, may be evidence of this effort. I find it far less compelling that human beings on Mars reached Earth first, given Mars? far less fertile environment. The human beings on Mars are probably the descendants of colonists from Earth, separated from us by the solar system catastrophe of 9,500 BC.? In 2008, Basiago published a paper entitled The Discovery of Life on Mars that contains analysis and photographs of humanoid and animal species living on the surface of Mars, as well as many ancient Martian artifacts, that he found in NASA photograph PIA10214, which was taken by the US space agency?s Mars Rover Spirit in 2007. You can download this paper by clicking here (PDF). MARS? report on the New Cydonia complex at Reull Vallis was released on July 20, 2009 to coincide with the 40th anniversary of the lunar landing by NASA?s Apollo 11. In a related article on the huge, simian visage found in the Cydonia region of Mars known as The Face on Mars, the late Dr. Tom van Flandern, former chief astronomer of the U.S. Naval Observatory, concluded that the probability that The Face on Mars is an artificial structure exceeds ?a thousand billion billion to one.? Van Flandern wrote: ?In [the image of The Face on Mars], it is possible to see details in the image (once the right correspondence to the Viking image is recognized) that might have been intended to portray each secondary facial feature ? eyebrow, pupil, nostrils, and lips. These are more plainly visible in higher-magnification views with brightness and contrast adjusted for each area because of the limited contrast in the image. Such views may be inspected at in the Cydonia section. Detailed study with image processing software shows that these secondary facial features exist where expected by the artificiality hypothesis, but nowhere else on the mesa. This rules out a background of many similar features from which we might pick out just ones that fulfill our expectations. Moreover, each feature is present at the expected location, having the expected size, shape, and orientation. The odds are against any of these features arising by chance, and against each feature having any of the four listed characteristics. Each of these probabilities has been carefully and conservatively estimated in a fuller treatment of this topic. The combined odds against all of these features being present and having all expected characteristics to the degree actually present, when taken together with the absence of similar features in the background, exceed a thousand billion billion to one.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 14 08:58:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:58:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <63d6da24b9a249d7bf7d26e92ce59fca.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/13/2011 8:37:59 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless That is so damn depressing ... and probably accurate. The situation is actually a hundred and four times more complicated than Orr, who is almost as clueless as a literary historian as he is as a critic of poetry, has it--and no more depressing than it's always been. One good reason for that is the Internet (which Orr posts to himself, but--oddly--never reads, or so his ignorance of what's on it would lead one to believe). --Bob From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next twenty years, who would notice? A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty years, no one would notice. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 14 09:54:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site Message-ID: He reminds me of Gioia, but Gioia is a poet, and knows something about it. In fact, Orr may make a Gioia fan of me. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/13/2011 8:11:23 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a persuading case. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Tue Jun 14 09:57:56 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:57:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new nanopress publication project - 'Dark And Like A Web' In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com>, <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Announcing a new chapbook-length nanopress publication - 'Dark And Like A Web: Brief Notes On and To the Divine' by Nic Sebastian - edited fantastically by Beth Adams, with amazing cover art by Steven DaLuz and published by Broiled Fish & Honeycomb Nanopress - http://bit.ly/jb1bGZ. More about nanopress poetry publishing here: http://bit.ly/dZQNEU Sincerely, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Forever Will End on Thursday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 14 10:17:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:17:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: That is so damn depressing ... and probably accurate. The situation is a hundred and four times more complex than Orr depicts it, and no more depressing than it's always been for serious poets. It may even be better or soon to be better, thanks mainly to the Internet--which Orr posts to himself, but--oddly--never reads, or so his ignorance of what's there would lead one to believe. I continue to believe that a main problem for poetry if how difficult it is to connect people to kinds of poetry they might well appreciate. I truly believe there are people out there who ignore poetry as a whole but would love certain kinds of it if the gatekeepers weren't so good at keeping it invisible. One way they do that is prevent an effective list of current schools of poetry from being composed and circulated, one that would reveal what's out there, and give search engines better tags to use to find it. Another, of course, is publishing people like Orr where they have a chance of being read by more than a few dozen readers rather than publishing (or even mentioning the existence of) people who know something about poetry. --Bob From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next twenty years, who would notice? A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty years, no one would notice. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: 1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without a subscription to Poetry magazine; 2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and 3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Jun 14 11:16:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:16:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young reviewed Message-ID: <0C5AB0A2-A971-4D22-956D-2A376C7E46D5@ripon.edu> Brief review of Dean Young's new book by a reviewer who apparently was unaware of recent developments with Young's heart transplant surgery. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/books/la-ca-dean-young-20110612,0,6845722.story I've been slowly reading through this book, and most of what the reviewer says meshes with my own impressions. I am not sure that I see much variation in Young's style book to book, at least for the past several. He is remarkably prolific, too, especially for someone with major health problems. For my taste, sometimes Young pushes the jump-cut structure so hard that he loses me. That could be my failure, in many cases. But I like his poems best when I can trace some logic threading through all the free associative imagery, metaphors, and topic shifts. When I can't, and the poems just seem random dissociative collages or language riffs, I lose interest. (If language riffs are enough for you, well OK--no skin off my back.) I don't mind working to discover the poem's drift, but sometimes I labor hard and fail, in which case I tend to conclude that the poem has probably failed, according to my aesthetic. Same could be said of Ashbery, as far as I'm concerned. But this hit-and-miss quality is nothing new with Young, as I see it. As Stephen Mitchell once wrote about Neruda, explaining why he prefers the later work to earlier, "The sometimes showy surrealism of the earlier poems has mellowed into a constant, delicious skating on the edge of nonsense." As I say, I don't see the same sort of clear development in Young's work. But I love it most when he moves beyond showy surrealism to that "delicious skating on the edge of nonsense." On the edge, not over. . . . Also from Poetry Daily, here's a sample poem from Young's new book: http://poems.com/poem.php?date=15127 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 14 14:17:34 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <975700.24057.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Perhaps if we could combine the 2.?& have a gifted director (Paul Thomas Anderson: Boogie Nights) do the featured film. In a tongue & cheeky world, why not? ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 10:17:11 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless That is so damn depressing ... and probably accurate. The situation is a hundred and four times more complex than Orr depicts it, and no more depressing than it's always been for serious poets.? It may even be better? or soon to be better, thanks mainly to the Internet--which Orr posts to himself, but--oddly--never reads, or so his ignorance of what's there would lead one to believe. I continue to believe that a main problem for poetry if how difficult it is to connect people to kinds of poetry they might well appreciate.? I truly believe there are people out there who ignore poetry as a whole but would love certain kinds of it if the gatekeepers weren't so good at keeping it invisible.? One way they do that is prevent an effective list of current schools of poetry from being composed and circulated, one that would reveal what's out there, and give search engines better tags to use to find it.?? Another, of course, is publishing people like Orr where they have a chance of being read by more than a few dozen readers rather than publishing (or even mentioning the existence of) people who know something about poetry. --Bob ________________________________ From: Paul Howell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Makes us wonder: if no new, or even old, poetry were published for the next twenty years, who would notice? A mathematician I know says that if no new math happened for the next fifty years, no one would notice. On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 4:51 PM, wrote: What poets have faced for almost half a century, though, is a chasm between their art and the broader culture that's nearly as profound as the divide between land and sea, or sea and air. This is what Randall Jarrell had in mind when he said that "if we were in the habit of reading poets their obscurity would not matter; and, once we are out of the habit, their clarity does not help." The sweetest songs of the dolphins are lost on the gannets. >? >Nor is that disconnect reduced much by the two primary ways in which >contemporary poetry is discussed on the shelves of your local bookstore or >library. You might call these approaches the Scholarly Model and the How-to >Model. A book written according to the Scholarly Model is exactly what it sounds >like ? an academic treatise intended to add glitter to a young professor's >r?sum? ? and its typical structure runs as follows: >? >1. Introduction; in which the author makes a general statement about the poetry >world, often including some kind of on-the-one-hand-on-the-other discussion of >formalism and the avant-garde, neither of which will mean much to anyone without >a subscription to Poetry magazine; >? >2. Middle section consisting of three or four chapters devoted to individual >poets, one of whom will be John Ashbery; and >? >3. Conclusion; in which the author argues for more narrative, or more personal >detail, or more attention to language itself, or more poets whose names are >palindromes, or more poems involving otters, etc. >? >Books written according to this formula can be hugely enjoyable and smart, but >they don't have much to say to the general reader. Even a modern classic like >Robert Pinsky's The Situation of Poetry is addressing a state of affairs in >which its intended audience is already thoroughly situated. >? >Ironically enough, the How-to books can be even less helpful. These are the >volumes with titles like How to Embrace Poetry or Writing Your First Poem or >Opening Your Heart to Verse or something equally reminiscent of a do-it-yourself >guide to window treatments crossed with a Hallmark card. The problem here is not >that such books are written in bad faith or contain inaccurate information; on >the contrary, they're among the best intentioned items to be found in a Barnes & >Noble, and their documentation of sonnets, sestinas, and iambic trimeter is >usually impeccable. The problem is that many good readers don't understand, as a >basic matter, how to respond to the art form. As a result, the How-to Model's >combination of technical information and platitudes can resemble a golf lesson >that consists solely of being told what a nine iron is and how crisp the air can >be at St Andrews on a fine September morning, without a single remark about how >one actually goes about playing golf. Or to put it another way, the poetry world >has been very successful at discussing instruments, classifications, histories, >and theories; it's been less successful at conveying what it really means to >read poetry, and by extension, why such reading might be as worthwhile as >watching the director's cut of Blade Runner. >? >Excerpted from Beautiful & Pointless by David Orr. Copyright 2011 by David Orr. >Reprinted with the permission of HarperCollins. > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 14 14:20:01 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF81FE9532F20-1764-AC4@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <912823.12712.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That's been my goal, but ... what's Patty Hearst up to these days? ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 8:56:36 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site Even better, marry someone who made that money, or have parents who did. ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:11 PM, stephen russell wrote: He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > > > ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site > >http://davidorr.com/ > >I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from >Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not >the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law >training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's >argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. > >Finnegan >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jun 15 02:37:30 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:37:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, you're going to start making me like Orr if you aren't careful. I wonder if his Poetry Magazine reference was mean to imply that such things mattered to the kind of people who actually pay attention to poetry and thus subscribe to magazines and the like, rather than meaning that such discussions are to be literally found there (though to some degree they have been very recently). But I'm probably just being too generous in my reading of Orr, who I think means well, a least in the sense that he's not averse to riling up the poets while attempting to lead the relatively disinterested to poetry... and given the reviews and how the positive and negative reviews seem to break down, it might even be working. Anyway, Josh Corey had a nice take recently. Is Poetry magazine is the only magazine Orr has published in? c On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:54 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > > He reminds me of Gioia, but Gioia is a poet, and knows something about it. > In fact, Orr may make a Gioia fan of me. > > --Bob > > ------- Original Message ------- > From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] > Sent : 6/13/2011 8:11:23 PM > To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Cc : > Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & > Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into > the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > ________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > http://davidorr.com/ > I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from > Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably > not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably > the law training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to > structuing one's argument, presenting evidence,?and building a > persuading?case. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 10:13:02 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] General Science Message-ID: <426951.96786.qm@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >From Ismael Reed's Collected Poems/ 64-2007 General Science things in motion hv a tendency to stay in motion. the most intelligent ghost are those who do not know they are dead: something just crossed my hands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 15 11:36:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site Message-ID: <6b0f1fe79a0642eaac788b86b1360911.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Bob, you're going to start making me like Orr if you aren't careful. I wonder if his Poetry Magazine reference was mean to imply that such things mattered to the kind of people who actually pay attention to poetry and thus subscribe to magazines and the like, rather than meaning that such discussions are to be literally found there (though to some degree they have been very recently). But I'm probably just being too generous in my reading of Orr, who I think means well, a least in the sense that he's not averse to riling up the poets while attempting to lead the relatively disinterested to poetry... and given the reviews and how the positive and negative reviews seem to break down, it might even be working. Anyway, Josh Corey had a nice take recently. Is Poetry magazine is the only magazine Orr has published in? c He's also been in The NY Times. He posted a bunch of his reviews at his site, but I didn't look to see where they were published. I tend to think that once a critc gets certified by Poetry, very few, uh, W periodicals won't publish him. His reviews aren't really bad--when he's discussing particular poems, just never inspired, and never of anything not W or by a dead poet. I wouldn't be so disparaging of him if the mainstream published any critic dealing wirh poetry outside Wilshberia. But I have to say that some of thing things he says about poetry and poetry criticism seem incredibly obtuse to me. And contradict his practice as a practical critic. On the other hand, I do agree with a lot of his snipes. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Jun 15 12:07:49 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:07:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Clark on the Poetry Beat Message-ID: <41C77C44-B021-47C7-A874-BC776736CB1E@ripon.edu> I haven't gotten around to David Orr's book yet, but probably will later this summer. But speaking of poetry reviewing and criticism, a most welcome book just arrived in my mailbox today: Tom Clark's *The Poetry Beat: Reviewing the Eighties*, which was published in the most valuable U Michigan Poets on Poetry series in 1990. It collects Clark's mostly brief reviews of a range of poets. I think Clark's own poetry should be better known, and I'm very interested to see what he has to say as reviewer . (I've previously recommended Clark's blog as one of the best I know--always worth a visit: http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) Sadly, this book of reviews is out of print, but used copies are out and about. So far I've just been browsing around--some really good stuff on Ginsberg and Ashbery-- but was particularly struck by a somewhat lengthier essay from 1985 on language poetry, "Stalin as Linguist." Both Clark's prose and his mind are sharp and entertaining. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 12:26:11 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:26:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Clark on the Poetry Beat In-Reply-To: <41C77C44-B021-47C7-A874-BC776736CB1E@ripon.edu> References: <41C77C44-B021-47C7-A874-BC776736CB1E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I second the blogspot, Beyond the Pale. If you get on Angelica's list almost daily you get startling photos and art work, poetry hundreds of years old and ones Clark wrote the night before. Clark has turned blogging into an art form and I plan to highlight the blogspot when I guest edit Halvard's Truck blog in July. On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:07 AM, David Graham wrote: > I haven't gotten around to David Orr's book yet, but probably will later > this summer. > > But speaking of poetry reviewing and criticism, a most welcome book just > arrived in my mailbox today: Tom Clark's *The Poetry Beat: Reviewing the > Eighties*, which was published in the most valuable U Michigan Poets on > Poetry series in 1990. It collects Clark's mostly brief reviews of a range > of poets. I think Clark's own poetry should be better known, and I'm very > interested to see what he has to say as reviewer . (I've previously > recommended Clark's blog as one of the best I know--always worth a visit: > http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) > > Sadly, this book of reviews is out of print, but used copies are out and > about. > > So far I've just been browsing around--some really good stuff on Ginsberg > and Ashbery-- but was particularly struck by a somewhat lengthier essay from > 1985 on language poetry, "Stalin as Linguist." Both Clark's prose and his > mind are sharp and entertaining. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jun 15 12:46:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:46:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Clark on the Poetry Beat In-Reply-To: References: <41C77C44-B021-47C7-A874-BC776736CB1E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <13564EEF-7CB2-4B18-9F77-EC5559BAD962@ripon.edu> Curious: what is Angelica's list? What you describe just sounds like Clark's blog itself, which I do visit almost daily.... ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > I second the blogspot, Beyond the Pale. If you get on Angelica's list almost daily you get startling photos and art work, poetry hundreds of years old and ones Clark wrote the night before. > > Clark has turned blogging into an art form and I plan to highlight the blogspot when I guest edit Halvard's Truck blog in July. > > > > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:07 AM, David Graham wrote: > I haven't gotten around to David Orr's book yet, but probably will later this summer. > > But speaking of poetry reviewing and criticism, a most welcome book just arrived in my mailbox today: Tom Clark's *The Poetry Beat: Reviewing the Eighties*, which was published in the most valuable U Michigan Poets on Poetry series in 1990. It collects Clark's mostly brief reviews of a range of poets. I think Clark's own poetry should be better known, and I'm very interested to see what he has to say as reviewer . (I've previously recommended Clark's blog as one of the best I know--always worth a visit: http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) > > Sadly, this book of reviews is out of print, but used copies are out and about. > > So far I've just been browsing around--some really good stuff on Ginsberg and Ashbery-- but was particularly struck by a somewhat lengthier essay from 1985 on language poetry, "Stalin as Linguist." Both Clark's prose and his mind are sharp and entertaining. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 12:59:15 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:59:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Clark on the Poetry Beat In-Reply-To: <13564EEF-7CB2-4B18-9F77-EC5559BAD962@ripon.edu> References: <41C77C44-B021-47C7-A874-BC776736CB1E@ripon.edu> <13564EEF-7CB2-4B18-9F77-EC5559BAD962@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Angelica, Tom's wife, sends out a e-mail daily with titles and links to separate posting on the blog. They often come in threes. There must be someplace to get on her extensive e-mail list noted on the blog. On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:46 AM, David Graham wrote: > Curious: what is Angelica's list? What you describe just sounds like > Clark's blog itself, which I do visit almost daily.... > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > I second the blogspot, Beyond the Pale. If you get on Angelica's list > almost daily you get startling photos and art work, poetry hundreds of years > old and ones Clark wrote the night before. > > Clark has turned blogging into an art form and I plan to highlight the > blogspot when I guest edit Halvard's Truck blog in July. > > > > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:07 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> I haven't gotten around to David Orr's book yet, but probably will later >> this summer. >> >> But speaking of poetry reviewing and criticism, a most welcome book just >> arrived in my mailbox today: Tom Clark's *The Poetry Beat: Reviewing the >> Eighties*, which was published in the most valuable U Michigan Poets on >> Poetry series in 1990. It collects Clark's mostly brief reviews of a range >> of poets. I think Clark's own poetry should be better known, and I'm very >> interested to see what he has to say as reviewer . (I've previously >> recommended Clark's blog as one of the best I know--always worth a visit: >> http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) >> >> Sadly, this book of reviews is out of print, but used copies are out and >> about. >> >> So far I've just been browsing around--some really good stuff on Ginsberg >> and Ashbery-- but was particularly struck by a somewhat lengthier essay from >> 1985 on language poetry, "Stalin as Linguist." Both Clark's prose and his >> mind are sharp and entertaining. >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 15 13:42:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:42:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Stephen, I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began to make his way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres. Gioia was originallyknown as a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s (while still working in business). Then, of course, the essay _Can Poetry Matter?_ and collected essays under the same title, really put him on the map as a critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way. Then being named to head up the NEA was a very big deal too for Gioia. David Orr hasn't yet the kind c.v. DNA to be a clone of Dana Gioia. But David Orr is not a poet, is he? Nor has he the specialized English department training (PhD) that so many of our poetry critics have? I guess in some ways, despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary poetry can attract someone to become a visible reviewer and generalist critic who is neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a persuading case. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 15 13:51:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:51:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud Message-ID: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/books/review/book-review-illuminations-by-arthur-rimbaud.html Rimbaud?s Wise Music By LYDIA DAVIS Published: June 9, 2011 -- ILLUMINATIONS By Arthur Rimbaud Translated by John Ashbery 175 pp. W. W. Norton & Company. $24.95. -- Some associations with the name Rimbaud are very familiar: the highly romantic photograph taken a few months after he first settled in Paris, already at 17 the dedicatedly bohemian artist, with his pale blue eyes, distant gaze, thatch of hair, carelessly rumpled clothes; the startling, much interpreted declaration Je est un autre (?I is someone else?); the fact that he produced a masterly, innovative and influential body of poetry while still in his teens; that he stopped writing around age 21 and never went back to it, engaging thereafter in various sometimes mysterious commercial and mystical enterprises in exotic locations, including a period of gun-?running in Africa (and, oddly, an attempt to enlist in the United States Navy). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 13:53:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:53:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: If you scroll down Orr's FAQ page -- http://davidorr.com/about/ -- you'll find a link to some of his poems. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > Stephen, > I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a > leap of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began to > make his way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of > genres. Gioia was originallyknown as a leading poet & spokesperson for new > formalists in mid 80s (while still working in business). Then, of course, > the essay _Can Poetry Matter?_ and collected essays under the same title, > really put him on the map as a critic. He wrote libretti and other things > along the way. > > Then being named to head up the NEA was a very big deal too for Gioia. > David Orr hasn't yet the kind c.v. DNA to be a clone of Dana Gioia. > > But David Orr is not a poet, is he? Nor has he the specialized English > department training (PhD) that so many of our poetry critics have? I guess > in some ways, despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary poetry > can attract someone to become a visible reviewer and generalist critic who > is neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & > Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into > the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Orr site > > http://davidorr.com/ > I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD > from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was > probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. > Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes > to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a > persuading case. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 15 14:17:47 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:17:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDF99FA9FD2FCD-163C-CA54@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Just after writing that I found this one too... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poem/180280 So I'll amend what I'd said, to "David Orr is not a poet of any note." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site If you scroll down Orr's FAQ page -- http://davidorr.com/about/ -- you'll find a link to some of his poems. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Stephen, I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began to make his way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres. Gioia was originallyknown as a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s (while still working in business). Then, of course, the essay _Can Poetry Matter?_ and collected essays under the same title, really put him on the map as a critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way. Then being named to head up the NEA was a very big deal too for Gioia. David Orr hasn't yet the kind c.v. DNA to be a clone of Dana Gioia. But David Orr is not a poet, is he? Nor has he the specialized English department training (PhD) that so many of our poetry critics have? I guess in some ways, despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary poetry can attract someone to become a visible reviewer and generalist critic who is neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his bio asy he has a JD from Yale. Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence, and building a persuading case. Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jun 15 17:14:17 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site Message-ID: <26066060.1308172457489.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 19:49:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <819180.27864.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Didn't know about the libretti. But Gioia, as you've pointed out, has done his homework. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:42:14 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site Stephen, I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began?to make his way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres.?Gioia was originallyknown as?a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s (while still working in business).?Then, of course, the essay?_Can Poetry Matter?_??and collected essays under the same title, really?put him on the map as a?critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way.? Then being named to head up the NEA was a very?big deal too for Gioia. David Orr hasn't yet the?kind?c.v.?DNA to be a?clone of Dana Gioia. But David Orr?is not a poet, is he? Nor has he?the specialized English department training (PhD)?that so many of our?poetry critics have??I guess in some ways,?despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary?poetry can attract someone?to become a visible reviewer and?generalist critic who is neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site http://davidorr.com/ I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 19:52:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <799036.44825.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Train The TrainBy David Orr David Orr Not that anyone will care, But as I was sitting there On the 8:07 To New Haven, I was struck by lightning. The strangest thing Wasn't the flash of my hair Catching on fire, But the way people pretended Nothing had happened. For me, it was real enough. But it seemed as if The others saw this as nothing But a way of happening, A way to get from one place To another place, But not a place itself. So, ignored, I burned to death. Later, someone sat in my seat And my ashes ruined his suit. Source: Poetry (December 2007). ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:53:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site If you scroll down Orr's FAQ page -- http://davidorr.com/about/ -- you'll find a link to some of his poems. ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Stephen, >I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap >of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began?to make his >way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres.?Gioia was >originallyknown as?a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s >(while still working in business).?Then, of course, the essay?_Can Poetry >Matter?_??and collected essays under the same title, really?put him on the map >as a?critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way.? > >Then being named to head up the NEA was a very?big deal too for Gioia. David Orr >hasn't yet the?kind?c.v.?DNA to be a?clone of Dana Gioia. > > >But David Orr?is not a poet, is he? Nor has he?the specialized English >department training (PhD)?that so many of our?poetry critics have??I guess in >some ways,?despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary?poetry can >attract someone?to become a visible reviewer and?generalist critic who is >neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. > >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > >He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio >was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry >thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > > > > ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site > >http://davidorr.com/ > >I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from >Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not >the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law >training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's >argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. > >Finnegan > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jun 15 19:56:35 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:56:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site Message-ID: <6626331.1308182195797.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 19:58:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <6626331.1308182195797.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6626331.1308182195797.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <354342.27530.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The guy strains for irony. Sort of, well, boring. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 7:56:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site The best of the four at the Poetry site. But he's right--I don't care. -----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >Sent: Jun 15, 2011 7:52 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > >The Train >The TrainBy David Orr David Orr >Not that anyone will care, >But as I was sitting there > >On the 8:07 >To New Haven, > >I was struck by lightning. >The strangest thing > >Wasn't the flash of my hair >Catching on fire, > >But the way people pretended >Nothing had happened. > >For me, it was real enough. >But it seemed as if > >The others saw this as nothing >But a way of happening, > >A way to get from one place >To another place, > >But not a place itself. >So, ignored, I burned to death. > >Later, someone sat in my seat >And my ashes ruined his suit. >Source: Poetry (December 2007). > > > > > ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:53:25 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > >If you scroll down Orr's FAQ page -- http://davidorr.com/about/ -- you'll find a >link to some of his poems. > >?? ? > > >"Reality cannot be copywrited." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > >Stephen, >>I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap >>of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began?to make his >>way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres.?Gioia was >>originallyknown as?a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s >>(while still working in business).?Then, of course, the essay?_Can Poetry >>Matter?_??and collected essays under the same title, really?put him on the map >>as a?critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way.? >> >>Then being named to head up the NEA was a very?big deal too for Gioia. David Orr >>hasn't yet the?kind?c.v.?DNA to be a?clone of Dana Gioia. >> >> >>But David Orr?is not a poet, is he? Nor has he?the specialized English >>department training (PhD)?that so many of our?poetry critics have??I guess in >>some ways,?despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary?poetry can >>attract someone?to become a visible reviewer and?generalist critic who is >>neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. >> >>Finnegan >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: stephen russell >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site >> >> >>He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio >>was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry >>thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site >> >>http://davidorr.com/ >> >>I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from >>Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not >>the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law >>training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's >>argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. >> >>Finnegan >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 19:55:17 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site In-Reply-To: <799036.44825.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <179991.48890.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDF99AB24BA5B0-163C-BB1B@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> <799036.44825.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <718981.46836.qm@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> wait, The Train has already been posted. Here's another: The Sight The SightBy David Orr David Orr My Uncle Fletcher, Our county seer, Bestowed his gifts On my no-good cousin Jeff, Who had a feeling About nearly everything. "That guy of hers . . ." "Those fucking queers . . ." He'd say, giving me the eye, Which was the same eye That could gaze upon A yellow froth of newborns, And know the cockerels From the pullets. Source: Poetry (December 2007). ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 7:52:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site The Train The TrainBy David Orr David Orr Not that anyone will care, But as I was sitting there On the 8:07 To New Haven, I was struck by lightning. The strangest thing Wasn't the flash of my hair Catching on fire, But the way people pretended Nothing had happened. For me, it was real enough. But it seemed as if The others saw this as nothing But a way of happening, A way to get from one place To another place, But not a place itself. So, ignored, I burned to death. Later, someone sat in my seat And my ashes ruined his suit. Source: Poetry (December 2007). ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:53:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site If you scroll down Orr's FAQ page -- http://davidorr.com/about/ -- you'll find a link to some of his poems. ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Stephen, >I don't know the whole Gioia story but I would say he probably did take a leap >of faith when he quit as brand manager for General Foods and began?to make his >way as full time writer. Gioia always wrote in a number of genres.?Gioia was >originallyknown as?a leading poet & spokesperson for new formalists in mid 80s >(while still working in business).?Then, of course, the essay?_Can Poetry >Matter?_??and collected essays under the same title, really?put him on the map >as a?critic. He wrote libretti and other things along the way.? > >Then being named to head up the NEA was a very?big deal too for Gioia. David Orr >hasn't yet the?kind?c.v.?DNA to be a?clone of Dana Gioia. > > >But David Orr?is not a poet, is he? Nor has he?the specialized English >department training (PhD)?that so many of our?poetry critics have??I guess in >some ways,?despite his lapses, we should be glad that contemporary?poetry can >attract someone?to become a visible reviewer and?generalist critic who is >neither a poet nor academically trained in poetics. > >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Orr site > > >He might be a Dana Gioia clone. But Gioia went to Harvard and Stanford. & Gioio >was a finance guy. It's good to make tons of $$$$$ before going into the poetry >thing full time. Or so my mom used to tell me. > > > > > ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:30:47 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Orr site > >http://davidorr.com/ > >I noticed Orr has a nice looking website. And his?bio asy he has?a JD from >Yale.?Doesn't say what his class rank was, but poetry criticism was probably not >the field his parents' saw him going into after graduation. Persumably the law >training may be of use to him as a?critic when it comes to structuing one's >argument, presenting evidence,?and building a persuading?case. > >Finnegan > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 20:17:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Dinner? Message-ID: <363016.92890.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Fellow poets, the president of the United States has offered me a chance to dine with him for a mere 5.00. I wonder?what our president would do?if I offered him the chance to dine with me for 10.00? Poets, please support me in my effort to have the company of our president for dinner. Contributions are welcomed @ poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com. And I thank you for your support. Yours, Stephen Russell Stephen -- I've set aside time for four supporters like you to join me for dinner. Most campaigns fill their dinner guest lists primarily with Washington lobbyists and special interests. We didn't get here doing that, and we're not going to start now. We're running a different kind of campaign. We don't take money from Washington lobbyists or special-interest PACs -- we never have, and we never will. We rely on everyday Americans giving whatever they can afford -- and I want to spend time with a few of you. So if you make a donation today, you'll be automatically entered for a chance to be one of the four supporters to sit down with me for dinner. Please donate $5 or more today: https://donate.barackobama.com/Dinner-with-Barack We'll pay for your flight and the dinner -- all you need to bring is your story and your ideas about how we can continue to make this a better country for all Americans. This won't be a formal affair. It's the kind of casual meal among friends that I don't get to have as often as I'd like anymore, so I hope you'll consider joining me. But I'm not asking you to donate today just so you'll be entered for a chance to meet me. I'm asking you to say you believe in the kind of politics that gives people like you a seat at the table -- whether it's the dinner table with me or the table where decisions are made about what kind of country we want to be. It starts with a gift of whatever you can afford. Please make a donation of $5 or more today, and we'll throw your name in the hat for the upcoming dinner: https://donate.barackobama.com/Dinner-with-Barack I've said before that I want people like you to shape this campaign from the very beginning -- and this is a chance for four people to share their ideas directly with me. Hope to see you soon, Barack No purchase, payment, or contribution necessary to enter or win. Contributing will not improve chances of winning. Void where prohibited. Entries must be received by 11:59 p.m. on 6/30/11. You may enter by contributing to Sponsor here. Alternatively, click here to enter without contributing. Four winners will each receive the following prize package: one round-trip ticket within the continental U.S. to a destination to be determined by the Sponsor in its sole discretion; hotel accommodations for one; and dinner with President Obama on a date to be determined by the Sponsor in its sole discretion (approximate combined retail value of all prizes $1,075). Odds of winning depend on number of eligible entries received. Promotion open only to U.S. citizens, or lawful permanent U.S. residents who are legal residents of 50 United States and District of Columbia and 18 or older (or of majority under applicable law). Promotion subject to Official Rules and additional restrictions on eligibility. Click here for full details, restrictions, and Official Rules. Sponsor: Obama for America, 130 E. Randolph St., Chicago, IL 60601. Contributions or gifts to Obama for America are not tax deductible This email was sent to: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Update address | Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jun 15 21:22:56 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:22:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Dinner? Message-ID: <1543539.1308187376472.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 15 21:35:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:35:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 09:04:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <611221.22095.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There you go. Clarity. Yes, there is a diffence. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 9:35:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 09:12:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <195208.56490.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 9:35:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless As for posting poems: Hot/off press -- Midnight Portrait at Bus Stop ? ? ? He?s seated on a motorized wheelchair. The man is old, not frail, Perhaps in his mid-sixties. Flecks of grey surround the rim of an Otherwise bald head. The man is black. His goatee is perfectly Groomed. He has a half inch hole in his neck. Quickly, carefully, The man inserts a cigarette inside the hole ? Then raises a red bic lighter, pointing it toward the cigarette?s tip With his spare, but steady hand. There?s a swivel stick on the arm Of the wheelchair. He moves it left and the wheelchair move 90 Degrees left. He moves it right, and the wheelchair returns to its ? Original position. The man lights the cigarette, yanks it from The bullet hole, and places it between his lips, inhaling deeply. A half moon?s celestial grin makes a cameo appearance, upstage Left. The Metro Bus arrives, stage right, as man and wheelchair ? Inch towards the platform. I count 3 dimly lit stars, take one hit Off of my smoke, and let it drop. The bus accelerates, fading Into a different scenario. The moon reappears. ------- Original Message ------- From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 09:19:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <611221.22095.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <611221.22095.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504972.20499.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> or is it difference? ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 9:04:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless There you go. Clarity. Yes, there is a diffence. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 9:35:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 09:26:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:26:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDFA402FD79140-16B4-16E3E@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 9:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- >From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 09:32:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <8CDFA402FD79140-16B4-16E3E@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFA402FD79140-16B4-16E3E@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <62906.42841.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I try to google the most dependable site, and link from there. For instance, for Vispo, I'd google Jim Andrews, and look for links on his site. Of course, in my case, it's usually do as i say and not what i do. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 9:26:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work?that never would have been seen except by?a handful?of interested?persons?can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... The barrier now is?the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for?our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array'?doesn't begin to describe the problem.? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 9:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- From : stephen russell[mailto:poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com] Sent : 6/14/2011 2:17:34 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It is complex. Poetry online sites are extremely popular. I've read, or have heard, that poetry ranks second to porn in online populary. Poetry is not popular on the Internet, posting horrible poems on the Internet is what's popular. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 09:35:30 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:35:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dove in Homer Message-ID: <8CDFA41651BB998-16B4-16F73@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> http://homertribune.com/2011/06/poet-says-%E2%80%98writers-begin-in-silence%E2%80%99/ Poet says ?Writers begin in silence? By Naomi Klouda Homer Tribune Pulitzer prize winning poet Rita Dove had made one other trip to Alaska prior to receiving an invitation to be the keynote speaker at the 10th Anniversary Kachemak Bay Writers Conference last weekend. ?We drove up in a motor home, my family and I, and we came to Homer. I knew this was a fishing community, and I thought, as I looked around, these people whom I was seeing didn?t look like fishermen,? she told a packed audience at the Land?s End Friday night. ?They looked like writers.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 09:57:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:57:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud In-Reply-To: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Thought for the day... Always the same handful of poets are translated again & again: How many Rilkes, Lorcas, Rimbauds, etc., do we need? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:51 pm Subject: Ashbery's Rimbaud http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/books/review/book-review-illuminations-by-arthur-rimbaud.html Rimbaud?s Wise Music By LYDIA DAVIS Published: June 9, 2011 -- ILLUMINATIONS By Arthur Rimbaud Translated by John Ashbery 175 pp. W. W. Norton & Company. $24.95. -- Some associations with the name Rimbaud are very familiar: the highly romantic photograph taken a few months after he first settled in Paris, already at 17 the dedicatedly bohemian artist, with his pale blue eyes, distant gaze, thatch of hair, carelessly rumpled clothes; the startling, much interpreted declaration Je est un autre (?I is someone else?); the fact that he produced a masterly, innovative and influential body of poetry while still in his teens; that he stopped writing around age 21 and never went back to it, engaging thereafter in various sometimes mysterious commercial and mystical enterprises in exotic locations, including a period of gun-?running in Africa (and, oddly, an attempt to enlist in the United States Navy). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 10:07:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 07:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud In-Reply-To: <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <196124.90548.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Or another volume of, say, Rilke, with poems about Rilke from poets who never fail for something else to add, and photos?from Rilke's childhood, teen years, mature years ... with additional commentary on Rilke ... footnotes ... diary ... gossip ... & an endless post Rilke industry that will thrive forever ... until Congress passes a law. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 9:57:05 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud Thought for the day... Always the same handful of poets are translated again & again: How many Rilkes, Lorcas, Rimbauds, etc., do we need? ? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:51 pm Subject: Ashbery's Rimbaud http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/books/review/book-review-illuminations-by-arthur-rimbaud.html Rimbaud?s Wise Music By LYDIA DAVIS Published: June 9, 2011 -- ILLUMINATIONS By Arthur Rimbaud Translated by John Ashbery 175 pp. W. W. Norton & Company. $24.95. -- Some associations with the name Rimbaud are very familiar: the highly romantic photograph taken a few months after he first settled in Paris, already at 17 the dedicatedly bohemian artist, with his pale blue eyes, distant gaze, thatch of hair, carelessly rumpled clothes; the startling, much interpreted declaration Je est un autre (?I is someone else?); the fact that he produced a masterly, innovative and influential body of poetry while still in his teens; that he stopped writing around age 21 and never went back to it, engaging thereafter in various sometimes mysterious commercial and mystical enterprises in exotic locations, including a period of gun-?running in Africa (and, oddly, an attempt to enlist in the United States Navy). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Thu Jun 16 10:12:50 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:12:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud In-Reply-To: <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <599FE179-31F9-49FC-ABF6-3DEBE5DA0876@ripon.edu> Simic's anthology ANOTHER REPUBLIC addressed this issue nicely many years ago--including Parra instead of Neruda, etc --probably helping make some of its poets better known. =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Jun 16, 2011, at 8:57 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > Thought for the day... > Always the same handful of poets are translated again & again: How many Rilkes, Lorcas, Rimbauds, etc., do we need? > > > -----Original Message----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 11:22:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:22:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] book designer recommendation In-Reply-To: <8CDFA4F9912F5A3-14A0-20371@webmail-d144.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFA4F9912F5A3-14A0-20371@webmail-d144.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDFA5068D64FEB-14A0-20501@webmail-d144.sysops.aol.com> I just finished a book for my 'intermittent press' Plinth Books and used this book designer for inside & out, plus coordinating production with the printer. He did a great job for a very reasonable price... Michael Russem -- Kat Ran Press 28 Myrtle Avenue Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617-576-0584 michael at katranpress.com www.katranpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 16 11:23:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:23:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. Finnegan Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and other linds of non-W poetry. The glut would be okay if we had a list of schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use. My complaint is that the Internet has failed to do much for poetry--because hardly anyone is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems. This is especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry since no one else will. Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much critical attention on the Internet. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 12:11:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:11:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Only" is a great word. It excludes so much and can never be proved. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:23 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > > The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that > never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now > be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense > networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say > "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the > caveat... > > The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available > time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our > eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. > > Finnegan > > Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and > other linds of non-W poetry. The glut would be okay if we had a list of > schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use. My complaint > is that the Internet has failed to do much for poetry--because hardly anyone > is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems. This is > especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry > since no one else will. Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much > critical attention on the Internet. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 16 12:43:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:43:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <808d3a9b7294490f9a82bd0456d5d62e.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : Halvard Johnson[mailto:halvard at gmail.com] Sent : 6/16/2011 12:11:25 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless "Only" is a great word. It excludes so much and can never be proved. Especially in cobination with "much." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 12:49:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:49:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud In-Reply-To: <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF99BF3DC8C67-163C-BEC2@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> <8CDFA4468E3706A-16B4-1737B@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDFA5C8EB86E1E-2194-2267A@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> I noticed that Donald Revell has a rather recent edition of AR's Illuminations (2009 copyright). http://www.omnidawn.com/rimbaud2/index.htm I know from reading Revell's The Art of Attention that he is close to or at least friendly with John Ashbery. I wonder if the two compared notes. It would be interesting to look at the two volumes side by side. They must have been working on the poems concurrently since I'm sure it takes years to finish a book of translations. I don't imagine Ashbery knocked out all of his Rimbaud translations after Revell's were put to bed. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 9:57 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ashbery's Rimbaud Thought for the day... Always the same handful of poets are translated again & again: How many Rilkes, Lorcas, Rimbauds, etc., do we need? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:51 pm Subject: Ashbery's Rimbaud http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/books/review/book-review-illuminations-by-arthur-rimbaud.html Rimbaud?s Wise Music By LYDIA DAVIS Published: June 9, 2011 -- ILLUMINATIONS By Arthur Rimbaud Translated by John Ashbery 175 pp. W. W. Norton & Company. $24.95. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 12:48:16 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:48:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Hinchas De Poesia #4 Is On The AIr In-Reply-To: <966081.33117.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <966081.33117.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: * JIM HEAVILY* 6501 E. Whitier Street Wake Forest NC 27587 *earwicker6501 at yahoo.com* * * Friends; Welcome to the fourth issue of *Hinchas de Poesia*, featuring poetry by James Cervantes, Kristine Chalifoux, Campbell McGrath, David Spicer & Pamela Stewart; fiction by Agustin Martinez; artwork by Ambiorix Santos; & photography by Jennifer Therieau & Brian Hawley, both of whom appear for the first time anywhere here in *Hinchas*. Take a look: http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/Hinchas/HINCHAS_FOUR/cuatro_contents.html I would like to thank our contributors for their many kindnesses, patience & graciousness in putting this issue together; their generosities & under-standing have nearly restored my faith in mankind. I also want to thank Yago S. Cura, publisher & editor of *Hinchas de Poesia, * for giving me the opportunity to serve as guest editor for this issue. He has spent countless hours behind the scenes in that weird html-place where all this stuff actually happens & has tirelessly addressed my numerous & seemingly unending requests for emendations, revisions & enhancements with integrity & good humor. Would that there were more good souls like him in this world. Feel free to share this link with your friends & colleagues. We welcome your comments as well. Address your correspondence to hinchasdpoesia at gmail.com. ?Salud! Jim Heavily Guest Editor -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 13:06:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:06:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CDFA5ED2F7AE01-2194-22C0B@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> I kind of like taking a haphazard course through world of poetry. A footnote, a hyperlink, a remark in passing, this reference leads to this poet who leads to that one who leads to another, ad infinitum. Yesterday for example I ran across a poet unknown to me, Hazel Hall... http://oregonstate.edu/dept/press/g-h/HazelHall.html I'm pretty certain she's not a great poet. But I think there are some interesting things going on in her work, particularly how her poetry uses sewing imagery, as she was a seamstress. Anyway, it was happy happenstance for me to have found her. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 11:23 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. Finnegan Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and other linds of non-W poetry. The glut would be okay if we had a list of schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use. My complaint is that the Internet has failed to do much for poetry--because hardly anyone is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems. This is especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry since no one else will. Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much critical attention on the Internet. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 13:07:39 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 19:07:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Hinchas De Poesia #4 Is On The AIr In-Reply-To: <966081.33117.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <966081.33117.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: * JIM HEAVILY* 6501 E. Whitier Street Wake Forest NC 27587 *earwicker6501 at yahoo.com* * * Friends; Welcome to the fourth issue of *Hinchas de Poesia*, featuring poetry by James Cervantes, Kristine Chalifoux, Campbell McGrath, David Spicer & Pamela Stewart; fiction by Agustin Martinez; artwork by Ambiorix Santos; & photography by Jennifer Therieau & Brian Hawley, both of whom appear for the first time anywhere here in *Hinchas*. Take a look: http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/Hinchas/HINCHAS_FOUR/cuatro_contents.html I would like to thank our contributors for their many kindnesses, patience & graciousness in putting this issue together; their generosities & under-standing have nearly restored my faith in mankind. I also want to thank Yago S. Cura, publisher & editor of *Hinchas de Poesia, * for giving me the opportunity to serve as guest editor for this issue. He has spent countless hours behind the scenes in that weird html-place where all this stuff actually happens & has tirelessly addressed my numerous & seemingly unending requests for emendations, revisions & enhancements with integrity & good humor. Would that there were more good souls like him in this world. Feel free to share this link with your friends & colleagues. We welcome your comments as well. Address your correspondence to hinchasdpoesia at gmail.com. ?Salud! Jim Heavily Guest Editor -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 13:27:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:27:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. Message-ID: <8CDFA61C28006B9-2194-237C8@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theboombox.com/2011/06/15/jay-z-insists-rap-is-poetry-compares-biggie-to-hitchcock/ "I hope readers take away from this book that rap is poetry," says Jay-Z. "It's thought-provoking and there's thought behind it and there's great writing in rap as well. You never hear rappers being compared for like the greatest writers of all time. You hear Bob Dylan. So is Biggie Smalls in a Hitchcock way. Some of the things that Biggie wrote ... Rakim, I mean listen to some of the things he wrote. I mean if you take those lyrics and you pull them away from the music and you put 'em up on the wall somewhere and someone had to look at them, they would say, 'This is genius. This is genius work.'" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 13:26:05 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:26:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: most effective censorship so far On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:23 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > > The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that > never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now > be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense > networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say > "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the > caveat... > > The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available > time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our > eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. > > Finnegan > > Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and > other linds of non-W poetry. The glut would be okay if we had a list of > schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use. My complaint > is that the Internet has failed to do much for poetry--because hardly anyone > is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems. This is > especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry > since no one else will. Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much > critical attention on the Internet. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 15:27:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:27:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] James Franco's Hart Crane Message-ID: <8CDFA72981389CB-1574-12108@webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com> http://www.jewishjournal.com/the_ticket/item/james_franco_q_a_his_film_on_tortured_gay_poet_hart_crane_20110615/ directing and starring in an experimental biopic of the tortured, gay American poet Hart Crane ? at the Los Angeles Film Festival, which runs from June 16-26. A mustachioed Franco portrays Crane (1899-1932), who emerged on the scene with his Brooklyn-bridge epic, ?The Bridge,? yet agonized over ever written word?even as he ferociously chased sailors, and was ?incredibly comfortable with his sexuality,? Franco said by phone. But booze, brawls and depression took its toll on the poet, whose last work, ?The Broken Tower,? chronicles his single heterosexual affair. Not long thereafter, when Hart was 32 ? just a year younger than Franco ? he jumped from a boat into the Gulf of Mexico and drowned. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 15:37:02 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. In-Reply-To: <8CDFA61C28006B9-2194-237C8@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFA61C28006B9-2194-237C8@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <422482.22586.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> a few D.C. takes on familiars: Let's do Classic Urban Poems, like 'Stopping by the Hood on a Snowy Evening', 'The Road Not Tooken', 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Blings', Ode to the Kanye West Wind', 'Ode to Grecian Earn', Do not Go Gentle into that Good Booty'. What y'all got for me? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 1:27:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. http://www.theboombox.com/2011/06/15/jay-z-insists-rap-is-poetry-compares-biggie-to-hitchcock/ "I hope readers take away from this book that rap is poetry," says Jay-Z. "It's thought-provoking and there's thought behind it and there's great writing in rap as well. You never hear rappers being compared for like the greatest writers of all time. You hear Bob Dylan. So is Biggie Smalls in a Hitchcock way. Some of the things that Biggie wrote ... Rakim, I mean listen to some of the things he wrote. I mean if you take those lyrics and you pull them away from the music and you put 'em up on the wall somewhere and someone had to look at them, they would say, 'This is genius. This is genius work.'" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 15:31:00 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <808d3a9b7294490f9a82bd0456d5d62e.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <808d3a9b7294490f9a82bd0456d5d62e.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <171244.44352.qm@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There's only so much one should expect from an unprotected word. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 12:43:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- >From : Halvard Johnson[mailto:halvard at gmail.com] Sent : 6/16/2011 12:11:25 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless "Only" is a great word. It excludes so much and can never be proved. Especially in cobination with "much." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 16 16:05:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:05:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: <62025d25851641fea914ef64eb013775.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : jforjames at aol.com[mailto:jforjames at aol.com] Sent : 6/16/2011 1:06:10 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless I kind of like taking a haphazard course through world of poetry. A footnote, a hyperlink, a remark in passing, this reference leads to this poet who leads to that one who leads to another, ad infinitum. Yesterday for example I ran across a poet unknown to me, Hazel Hall... http://oregonstate.edu/dept/press/g-h/HazelHall.html No reason having systemized routes to poetry would prevent your kind of browsing, Finnegan. But the lack of such routes makes it near-impossible for someone suddenly interested in an unconventional kind of poetry to find it, or for a critic (if one exists) who wants to get an idea of the full continuum of contemporary poetry to have a good chance of getting a sense of it in less than several years, if ever. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 16 16:10:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:10:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: ------- Original Message ------- >From : Paul Howell[mailto:htthinc at gmail.com] Sent : 6/16/2011 1:26:05 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless most effective censorship so far Sorry, Paul, but you've lost me. What's the most effective censorship so far? I'd say the absence of a list of schools (which is easy for anyone to add to). --Bob On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:23 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work that never would have been seen except by a handful of interested persons can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... The barrier now is the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array' doesn't begin to describe the problem. Finnegan Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and other kinds of non-W poetry. The glut would be okay if we had a list of schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use. My complaint is that the Internet has failed to do much for poetry--because hardly anyone is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems. This is especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry since no one else will. Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much critical attention on the Internet. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 20:15:22 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 20:15:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. In-Reply-To: <422482.22586.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDFA61C28006B9-2194-237C8@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> <422482.22586.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDFA9AC8A25626-1B48-1EFB2@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> To me, Jay-Z's remark shows the continuing power of the word 'poetry' as a cultural icon & honorific. If rap really became poetry as we know it, it would be a sorry thing for rap, would it not? Ice Kubla Khan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. a few D.C. takes on familiars: Let's do Classic Urban Poems, like 'Stopping by the Hood on a Snowy Evening', 'The Road Not Tooken', 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Blings', Ode to the Kanye West Wind', 'Ode to Grecian Earn', Do not Go Gentle into that Good Booty'. What y'all got for me? From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 1:27:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. http://www.theboombox.com/2011/06/15/jay-z-insists-rap-is-poetry-compares-biggie-to-hitchcock/ "I hope readers take away from this book that rap is poetry," says Jay-Z. "It's thought-provoking and there's thought behind it and there's great writing in rap as well. You never hear rappers being compared for like the greatest writers of all time. You hear Bob Dylan. So is Biggie Smalls in a Hitchcock way. Some of the things that Biggie wrote ... Rakim, I mean listen to some of the things he wrote. I mean if you take those lyrics and you pull them away from the music and you put 'em up on the wall somewhere and someone had to look at them, they would say, 'This is genius. This is genius work.'" _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 16 20:36:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 20:36:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: <62025d25851641fea914ef64eb013775.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <62025d25851641fea914ef64eb013775.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CDFA9DC00FF716-1DE8-31250@webmail-d177.sysops.aol.com> It's the journey not the destination, as I'm sure you've heard. What does it matter if it takes several years for someone to find this or that kind of poetry? Recently someone brought up 'documentary poetry'. I read an unconscionable amount of poetry/poetics, yet I had to Google the term to make sure I knew what it meant or what poets might fit under the rubric. The terminology, chart, system, etc., are only going to help so much. The 'map is not the territory' to use Korzybski's aphorism. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 4:05 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless ------- Original Message ------- >From : jforjames at aol.com[mailto:jforjames at aol.com] Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless I kind of like taking a haphazard course through world of poetry. A footnote, a hyperlink, a remark in passing, this reference leads to this poet who leads to that one who leads to another, ad infinitum. Yesterday for example I ran across a poet unknown to me, Hazel Hall... http://oregonstate.edu/dept/press/g-h/HazelHall.html No reason having systemized routes to poetry would prevent your kind of browsing, Finnegan. But the lack of such routes makes it near-impossible for someone suddenly interested in an unconventional kind of poetry to find it, or for a critic (if one exists) who wants to get an idea of the full continuum of contemporary poetry to have a good chance of getting a sense of it in less than several years, if ever. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 22:16:20 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 19:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425860.99416.qm@web120508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes!? A list of the schools of poetry would change everything.? Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go.? Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets.? So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school.? Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J >________________________________ >From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 4:10 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless > > > >------- Original Message ------- >From : Paul Howell[mailto:htthinc at gmail.com] >Sent : 6/16/2011 1:26:05 PM >To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless > >most effective censorship so far > >Sorry, Paul, but you've lost me.? What's the most effective censorship so far?? I'd say the absence of a list of schools (which is easy for anyone to add to). > > >--Bob > > >On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:23 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > >> >>The advent of the web has got to have been a boon for vispo, Bob? Work?that never would have been seen except by?a handful?of interested?persons?can now be easily viewed by almost endless number of people. Plus the immense networking & collaborative possibilities of the internet. I'm tempted to say "If you can't make it here (www), you can't make it anywhere." But the caveat... >>? >>The barrier now is?the glut of material available versus one's available time to sift through it all. Everything out there competing for?our eyeballs. The term 'dizzying array'?doesn't begin to describe the problem.? >>? >>Finnegan >>? >>Yes, the Internet has been great for the display of visual poetry and other kinds of non-W poetry.? The glut would be okay if we had a list of schools of poetry most poetry people could agree with and use.?My complaint is that the Internet has?failed to do much for?poetry--because hardly anyone is using it to discuss poetry, just pepper it with their own poems.? This is especially true of non-W poets, who really need to discuss their poetry since no one else will.?Only the long over-discussed poetry gets much critical attention on the Internet. >> >>--Bob >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 09:15:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 06:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER Message-ID: <109496.75035.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ex- Porn Actress Says Weiner Asked Her to Lie Ginger Lee and Weiner exchanged 100 emails between March and June, they?had to?meet, discuss stuff like politics real soon, ???? but when Weiner turned the conversation to sex, ???? his?thang got bigger than T Rex, and he twittered a lover in Cameroon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 09:44:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 06:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER In-Reply-To: <109496.75035.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <109496.75035.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <888156.14151.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> too long: Ex- Porn Actress Says Weiner Asked Her to Lie They exchanged 100 emails between March and June, Ginger Lee?liked her?politics?really?soon, ???? but when Weiner?talked about?sex, ???? his?thang got bigger than T Rex, and he twittered a lover in Cameroon. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 9:15:03 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER Ex- Porn Actress Says Weiner Asked Her to Lie Ginger Lee and Weiner exchanged 100 emails between March and June, they?had to?meet, discuss stuff like politics real soon, ???? but when Weiner turned the conversation to sex, ???? his?thang got bigger than T Rex, and he twittered a lover in Cameroon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 17 10:29:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:29:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless Message-ID: ------- Original Message ------- >From : jforjames at aol.com[mailto:jforjames at aol.com] Sent : 6/16/2011 8:36:36 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless It's the journey not the destination, as I'm sure you've heard. What does it matter if it takes several years for someone to find this or that kind of poetry? Recently someone brought up 'documentary poetry'. I read an unconscionable amount of poetry/poetics, yet I had to Google the term to make sure I knew what it meant or what poets might fit under the rubric. The terminology, chart, system, etc., are only going to help so much. The 'map is not the territory' to use Korzybski's aphorism. Finnegan You're sounding surprisingly egocentric to me, Fiinegan--you don't have any desire to learn fast about poetry, so there's no reason to do anything to facilitate quick learning for those who do? I gotta go to physical therapy now. (Am doing well, by the way.) Back to say more in an hour or so. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 10:51:08 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:51:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Quick learning? Ach, dieser Amerikaner. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:29 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > > > > ------- Original Message ------- > *From :* jforjames at aol.com[mailto:jforjames at aol.com] > *Sent :* 6/16/2011 8:36:36 PM > *To :* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > * > Cc :* > *Subject :* RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Long quote from Beautiful & Pointless > > It's the journey not the destination, as I'm sure you've heard. What does > it matter if it takes several years for someone to find this or that kind of > poetry? Recently someone brought up 'documentary poetry'. I read an > unconscionable amount of poetry/poetics, yet I had to Google the term to > make sure I knew what it meant or what poets might fit under the rubric. The > terminology, chart, system, etc., are only going to help so much. The 'map > is not the territory' to use Korzybski's aphorism. > Finnegan > > You're sounding surprisingly egocentric to me, Fiinegan--you don't have any > desire to learn fast about poetry, so there's no reason to do anything to > facilitate quick learning for those who do? > > I gotta go to physical therapy now. (Am doing well, by the way.) Back to > say more in an hour or so. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 17 12:31:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 12:31:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Message-ID: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Yes! A list of the schools of poetry would change everything. Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go. Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets. So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school. Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked enough to want to see more of it. If a list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label! The Antacid school, say. Put that in your search box and you could find it. Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and read how they were described and perhaps find one that intrigued you. A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions. For instance, if you decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry. If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you. With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry. You might not like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else). Worse, you and others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham. I'm strange, though, for I think that even a county map would be of use to such a person, and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful. I was working on such a list before my operation. Hope to get back to it when I'm home again. The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. It's weird. There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers. Oh, I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its. Better would be New York City/ Wilshberia (which would be close to being literally accurate). On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep going. It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing. It also increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized. The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools. Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 17 12:36:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 12:36:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV Message-ID: <8CDFB23CD3479E9-27B4-3DEAE@webmail-m132.sysops.aol.com> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n11/michael-wood/i-really-mean-like I really mean like Michael Wood The Complete Works of W.H. Auden: Prose Vol. IV, 1956-62 edited by Edward Mendelson Princeton, 982 pp, ?44.95, January 2011, ISBN 978 0 691 14755 0 In a poem from the early 1960s, ?On the Circuit?, W.H. Auden describes himself as ?a sulky fifty-six?, who finds ?A change of meal-time utter hell?, and has ?Grown far too crotchety to like/A luxury hotel?. There is plenty of self-parody in this picture ? a little later in the poem he identifies his worry about where the next drink is coming from as ?grahamgreeneish? ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Comedy was one sort of arrangement, and an important feature of his view of life; but he was seriously ?unsettled?, as Edward Mendelson says, and had acquired ?a profound new sense of menace and dread?. / Related from Don Share's blog... Critics that get on your nerves http://donshare.blogspot.com/2011/05/four-varieties-of-critic-that-get-on.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 12:39:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:39:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: List places not schools of poetry. If you're tired of Port Charlotte, try Port Moresby (no, not the character in Paul Bowle's novel). "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:31 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > Yes! A list of the schools of poetry would change everything. Just the > other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't > have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go. Luckily, > James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress > poets. So that hole is filled. > > Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry > or the Merging Traffic school. Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? > > John J > > The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find > yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work > previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, > you *liked*, even liked enough to want to see more of it. If a list of > poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might > have a label! The Antacid school, say. Put that in your search box and you > could find it. Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the > kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you > could consult a list of schools and read how they were described and perhaps > find one that intrigued you. > > A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions. For instance, if you > decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good > that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is > considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not > learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry. If > you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should > contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you. > With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out > about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry. You might not > like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the > variety a fair try. > Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, > Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map > could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else). Worse, you and others may > be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is *the whole world*--like > David Graham. I'm strange, though, for I think that even a county map would > be of use to such a person, and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia > would be helpful. I was working on such a list before my operation. Hope > to get back to it when I'm home again. The laptop I have here has none of > the files I need to continue it. > > It's weird. There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, > but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes > to aid for poetry travelers. > > Oh, I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter > is much larger on its map than the former is on its. Better would be New > York City/ Wilshberia (which would be close to being literally accurate). > On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde > Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what > is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. > > But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said > before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other > poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse > . . . > > One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that > ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone > making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough > recognition to keep going. It also gives status quo poets longer time to > become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing. It also > increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for > much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized. > > The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual > undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working > full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools. Why ignore > philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because > their interests are not yours? > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:13:48 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER In-Reply-To: <888156.14151.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <109496.75035.qm@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <888156.14151.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <507357.53435.qm@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> no but. the But goes ... ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 9:44:32 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER too long: Ex- Porn Actress Says Weiner Asked Her to Lie They exchanged 100 emails between March and June, Ginger Lee?liked her?politics?really?soon, ???? but when Weiner?talked about?sex, ???? his?thang got bigger than T Rex, and he twittered a lover in Cameroon. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 9:15:03 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] resign? NEVER Ex- Porn Actress Says Weiner Asked Her to Lie Ginger Lee and Weiner exchanged 100 emails between March and June, they?had to?meet, discuss stuff like politics real soon, ???? but when Weiner turned the conversation to sex, ???? his?thang got bigger than T Rex, and he twittered a lover in Cameroon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:23:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . Meaning, poetry in the States? From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, pedestrian, but also sacred. I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Yes!? A list of the schools of poetry would change everything.? Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go.? Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets.? So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school.? Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked enough to want to see more of it.? If a list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label!? The Antacid school, say.? Put that in your search box and you could find it.? Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and read how they were described?and perhaps find one that intrigued you. A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions.? For instance, if you decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry.? If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you.? With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry.? You might not like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else).? Worse, you and others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham.? I'm strange, though, for I think?that even?a county map would be of use to such a person,?and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful.? I was working on such a list before my operation.? Hope to get back to it when I'm home again.? The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. It's weird.? There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers.? Oh,?I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its.? Better would be New York City/ Wilshberia?(which would be close to being literally accurate).? On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep going.? It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing.? It also increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized.? The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools.? Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:25:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV In-Reply-To: <8CDFB23CD3479E9-27B4-3DEAE@webmail-m132.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFB23CD3479E9-27B4-3DEAE@webmail-m132.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <764200.58348.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Didn't he convert to Christianity? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:36:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n11/michael-wood/i-really-mean-like I really mean like Michael Wood The Complete Works of W.H. Auden: Prose Vol. IV, 1956-62 edited by Edward Mendelson Princeton, 982 pp, ?44.95, January 2011, ISBN 978 0 691 14755 0 In a poem from the early 1960s, ?On the Circuit?, W.H. Auden describes himself as ?a sulky fifty-six?, who finds ?A change of meal-time utter hell?, and has ?Grown far too crotchety to like/A luxury hotel?. There is plenty of self-parody in this picture ? a little later in the poem he identifies his worry about where the next drink is coming from as ?grahamgreeneish? ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Comedy was one sort of arrangement, and an important feature of his view of life; but he was seriously ?unsettled?, as Edward Mendelson says, and had acquired ?a profound new sense of menace and dread?. / Related from Don Share's blog... Critics that get on your nerves http://donshare.blogspot.com/2011/05/four-varieties-of-critic-that-get-on.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 14:36:50 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:36:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps the value of classification is over-rated? Yes, after classifying you *do* know something, even something of value. The problem seems to be many people stop there. (Olson makes that point often.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:39:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There was once a genuine populist niche?for poetry. In D.C., pulitzer prize winner Henry Taylor would read and compete at Spoken Word events. & slam performers such a Jeffrey McDaniels were lauded by senior poets such as?Bill Knott. Bill Knott offered the best blurbs for Jeffrey D's early work. McDaniel's, former slam champ, now teaches at Sarah Lawrence. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . Meaning, poetry in the States? From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, pedestrian, but also sacred. I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Yes!? A list of the schools of poetry would change everything.? Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go.? Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets.? So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school.? Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked enough to want to see more of it.? If a list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label!? The Antacid school, say.? Put that in your search box and you could find it.? Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and read how they were described?and perhaps find one that intrigued you. A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions.? For instance, if you decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry.? If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you.? With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry.? You might not like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else).? Worse, you and others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham.? I'm strange, though, for I think?that even?a county map would be of use to such a person,?and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful.? I was working on such a list before my operation.? Hope to get back to it when I'm home again.? The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. It's weird.? There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers.? Oh,?I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its.? Better would be New York City/ Wilshberia?(which would be close to being literally accurate).? On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep going.? It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing.? It also increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized.? The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools.? Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:44:45 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <432857.50134.qm@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Jerk Hey you, dragging the halo- how about a holiday in the islands of grief? Tongue is the word I wish to have with you. Your eyes are so blue they leak. Your legs are longer than a prisoner's last night on death row. I'm filthier than the coal miner's bathtub and nastier than the breath of Charles Bukowski. You're a dirty little windshield. I'm standing behind you on the subway, hard as calculus. My breath be sticking to your neck like graffiti. I'm sitting opposite you in the bar, waiting for you to uncross your boundaries. I want to rip off your logic and make passionate sense to you. I want to ride in the swing of your hips. My fingers will dig in you like quotation marks, blazing your limbs into parts of speech. But with me for a lover, you won't need catastrophes. What attracted me in the first place will ultimately make me resent you. I'll start telling you lies, and my lies will sparkle, become the bad stars you chart your life by. I'll stare at other women so blatantly you'll hear my eyes peeling, because sex with you is like Great Britain: cold, groggy, and a little uptight. Your bed is a big, soft calculator where my problems multiply. Your brain is a garage I park my bullshit in, for free. You're not really my new girlfriend, just another flop sequel of the first one, who was based on the true story of my mother. You're so ugly I forgot how to spell. I'll cheat on you like a ninth grade math test, break your heart just for the sound it makes. You're the 'this' we need to put an end to. The more you apologize, the less I forgive you. So how about it? ? Jeffrey McDaniel ? ? ? ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:39:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools There was once a genuine populist niche?for poetry. In D.C., pulitzer prize winner Henry Taylor would read and compete at Spoken Word events. & slam performers such a Jeffrey McDaniels were lauded by senior poets such as?Bill Knott. Bill Knott offered the best blurbs for Jeffrey D's early work. McDaniel's, former slam champ, now teaches at Sarah Lawrence. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . Meaning, poetry in the States? From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, pedestrian, but also sacred. I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Yes!? A list of the schools of poetry would change everything.? Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go.? Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets.? So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school.? Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked enough to want to see more of it.? If a list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label!? The Antacid school, say.? Put that in your search box and you could find it.? Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and read how they were described?and perhaps find one that intrigued you. A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions.? For instance, if you decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry.? If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you.? With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry.? You might not like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else).? Worse, you and others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham.? I'm strange, though, for I think?that even?a county map would be of use to such a person,?and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful.? I was working on such a list before my operation.? Hope to get back to it when I'm home again.? The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. It's weird.? There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers.? Oh,?I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its.? Better would be New York City/ Wilshberia?(which would be close to being literally accurate).? On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep going.? It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing.? It also increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized.? The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools.? Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Jun 17 14:51:52 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:51:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his books). Jerry On 6/17/2011 1:39 PM, stephen russell wrote: > There was once a genuine populist niche for poetry. > In D.C., pulitzer prize winner Henry Taylor would read and compete at > Spoken Word events. > & slam performers such a Jeffrey McDaniels were lauded by senior poets > such as Bill Knott. > Bill Knott offered the best blurbs for Jeffrey D's early work. > McDaniel's, former slam champ, now teaches at Sarah Lawrence. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, June 17, 2011 2:23:35 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've > said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and > other poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting > card verse . . . > Meaning, poetry in the States? > >From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of > daily life, pedestrian, but also sacred. > I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years > ago. Jerome Rothenberg's /Technicians of the Sacred. / > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > Yes! A list of the schools of poetry would change everything. Just > the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I > didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to > go. Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the > leading Seamstress poets. So that hole is filled. > > Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of > poetry or the Merging Traffic school. Oh, where is that schools of > poetry list? > > John J > > The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find > yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work > previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may > seem, you /liked/, even liked enough to want to see more of it. If a > list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind > of poetry might have a label! The Antacid school, say. Put that in > your search box and you could find it. Or, and this is even more > unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all > you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools > and read how they were described and perhaps find one that intrigued you. > > A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions. For instance, if you > decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are > good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic > poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, > but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also > considered visual poetry. If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe > because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume > visual poetry was of no interest to you. With a decent list of poetry > schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six > schools of poetry called visual poetry. You might not like any of > them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a > fair try. > Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, > Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any > map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else). Worse, you and > others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is /the > whole world/--like David Graham. I'm strange, though, for I > think that even a county map would be of use to such a person, and > that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful. I was > working on such a list before my operation. Hope to get back to it > when I'm home again. The laptop I have here has none of the files I > need to continue it. > > It's weird. There are all kinds of travel books available for > travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, > John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers. > > Oh, I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the > latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its. Better > would be New York City/ Wilshberia (which would be close to being > literally accurate). On the other hand, the territory on the serious > poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if > you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the > number of its practitioners. > > But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've > said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and > other poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting > card verse . . . > > One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less > that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that > someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting > for enough recognition to keep going. It also gives status quo poets > longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good > thing. It also increases the chances of some good new kind of > poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author > dying never-recognized. > > The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the > conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for > someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools. > Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, > simply because their interests are not yours? > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Jun 17 14:46:00 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:46:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DFBA0E8.1080105@louisiana.edu> As Beckett said, There's man all over, blaming on his boot the fault of his foot. Cheers, Jerry On 6/17/2011 1:36 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > Perhaps the value of classification is over-rated? Yes, after > classifying you /do/ know something, even something of value. The > problem seems to be many people stop there. > (Olson makes that point often.) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:57:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yeah. In D.C. he performed at slams, but his mentality was always as?you say-- measured and thoughtful. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his books). Jerry On 6/17/2011 1:39 PM, stephen russell wrote: There was once a genuine populist niche?for poetry. >In D.C., pulitzer prize winner Henry Taylor would read and compete at Spoken >Word events. >& slam performers such a Jeffrey McDaniels were lauded by senior poets such >as?Bill Knott. >Bill Knott offered the best blurbs for Jeffrey D's early work. > >McDaniel's, former slam champ, now teaches at Sarah Lawrence. > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:23:35 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > >But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said >before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry >read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . > >Meaning, poetry in the States? >>From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, >>pedestrian, but also sacred. >> > >I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. >Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. > > > > > > > ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > >Yes!? A list of the schools of poetry would change everything.? Just the other >day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list >of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go.? Luckily, James brought >Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets.? So that hole >is filled. > > > >Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the >Merging Traffic school.? Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? > > > >John J > >The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself >outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown >to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked >enough to want to see more of it.? If a list of poetry schools had been >available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label!? The Antacid >school, say.? Put that in your search box and you could find it.? Or, and this >is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on >all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and >read how they were described?and perhaps find one that intrigued you. > >A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions.? For instance, if you decided >to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you >would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered >visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about >many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry.? If you didn't care >for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you >might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you.? With a decent list of >poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools >of poetry called visual poetry.? You might not like any of them, either, but at >least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. >Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, >where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be >of use to me (or anyone else).? Worse, you and others may be like such a person >who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham.? I'm strange, >though, for I think?that even?a county map would be of use to such a person,?and >that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful.? I was working on >such a list before my operation.? Hope to get back to it when I'm home again.? >The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. > >It's weird.? There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so >many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for >poetry travelers.? > > >Oh,?I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is >much larger on its map than the former is on its.? Better would be New York >City/ Wilshberia?(which would be close to being literally accurate).? On the >other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is >much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin >it instead of by the number of its practitioners. > >But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said >before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry >read at?small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . > >One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten >years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may >not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep >going.? It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I >don't see how that's a good thing.? It also increases the chances of some good >new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its >author dying never-recognized.? > > >The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual >undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time >on it, even with a list of poetry schools.? Why ignore philosophers of poetry, >or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? > >--Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 15:28:51 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:28:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New Reads, Awards, and Summer Fun! In-Reply-To: <820681b667-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> References: <820681b667-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> Message-ID: ** Click to view this email in a browser [image: JUNEMasthead] Lisa Fishman?s *F L O W E R C A R T* now available!!! [image: FlowerCart-website]Her third book with Ahsahta Press (following The Happiness Experimentand Dear, Read), FLOWER CARTis a book grown organically from found texts, ** mixing Fishman?s original poetry with texts found abandoned in barns and thrift shops: a steno notebook filled with what might be a combination of English language exercises, recipes, and personal notes; a letter; a diary of ?Trees I Have Seen.? ?A shudder runs up my spine and the old awe steals over me as I read Lisa Fishman?s *FLOWER CART*, at once charmed and disconcerted by its cache of documents, its systems of control and divination?in the spirit of the daybook?its homespun regimes, its furtive games of chance,? writes Daniel Tiffany. Publishers Weekly?s reviewer wrote, ?Brevity, oddity, familial joys and intermittent worries, and delight in rural space have come to be what we expect from Fishman, and they are among the goods she delivers, though in an unexpected form. . . . Fishman remains among the friendliest of experimental poets, inviting us into her time machine, into her game.? Order it today! ------------------------------ Karen Rigby Wins 2011 Sawtooth Poetry Prize! [image: Karen_Rigby_72dpi]Paul Hoover, judge of the 2011 Sawtooth Poetry Prize, has selected Chinoiserie by Karen Rigby of Gilbert, Arizona, as winner of the 2011 Sawtooth Poetry Prize. She received $1,500, and her poetry collection will be published by Ahsahta Press in January 2012. In his citation for the prize, Hoover wrote, ?It?s fitting that the three sections of* Chinoiserie *are preceded by quotes from Neruda, Lorca, and Paz, for, like those great poets, Karen Rigby tends to the dream life of things ('A tanager shone / like a pitcher of blood? as well as the textures of everyday life: 'paperwhites / ginger jar / cake plate.? One doesn?t feel the direct influence of those poets but rather that she, too, has passed through the labyrinth where things lie about waiting for their names.? Lucy Ives of Flushing, New York, was chosen runner-up for her manuscript Early Poems, which will be published in September 2013. The next deadline for the Sawtooth Contest is March 1, 2012; it will be judged by Heather McHugh. <#1309f09f225214e3_> ------------------------------ And the Lambda Prize goes to... [image: 9781934103166-web] Brian Teare?s moving, provocative, and beautiful book Pleasure(Ahsahta, 2010) won the 2011 Lambda Literary Award for Gay Poetryin a year in which more books than ever competed in the awards. Finalists for the prize included darkacre by Greg Hewett (Coffee House), Other Flowers: Uncollected Poems of James Schuyler (Farrar, Strauss & Giroux), The Salt Ecstacies: Poems by James L. White (Graywolf), and then, we were still living by Michael Klein (GenPop). Teare?s poems, which recount a survivor?s emotional reorientation to the world after a lover dies of AIDS, also record the eventual end of mourning and a return to the ecology not of myth but of the literal weather and landscape of California. If you haven?t read it, treat yourself to Teare?s unsurpassed lyric language by ordering your copy here . ------------------------------ Submit Your Chapbook to Ahsahta?s Inaugural Contest! There?s still time to enter your chapbook in Ahsahta?s first-ever chapbook contest, though you?ve only got until the end of the month of June. The contest judge this year is Cathy Wagner. Submit your chapbook using Ahsahta?s Submission Manager ?full detailsare on our website. ------------------------------ Ahsahta Board News Ahsahta Press has been building its fundraising board this spring, with help from an ad hoc advisory board co-chaired by Ahsahta?s director and editor Janet Holmes and former operations manager of The Cabin literary center Margaret Marti. Members Steffen Brown, Jodi Chilson, Tony Doerr, Kate Greenstreet, and Clay Morgan, along with Sunny Wallace of Boise State University Advancement, set out goals for board membership and began seeking nominations for permanent board members in anticipation of an initial meeting this September. As of June, we have three committed volunteers for the Board: Yvonne McCoy, Trudy Littmann, and Maureen Hartman, all of Boise. We hope to add three more members in the late summer and early fall and to begin fundraising activities shortly thereafter. <#1309f09f225214e3_> ------------------------------ News and Readings *Flavorwire* included *Susan Briante* in the list of ?10 Contemporary Southern and Midwestern Poets You Should Know .? Reviews of her book *Utopia Minus* appear in Publishers Weekly, New Pages, and Sister Arts. Briante also has a poetic statement, ?Notes Towards a Poetics of the Dow ,? in the May issue of *Evening Will Come*. Poems from this ?Dow? series are forthcoming in *Canteen*. *The Source* (Futurepoem Books, 2011) by *Noah Eli Gordon* is reviewed in Publishers Weekly, Futurepost, Big Other , Tillalala Chronicle, and galatera resurrects #16. Gordon?s book is also reviewed here. He, and a chorus of other Denver poets, can be found reading *The Source* in this grand YouTubeclip. Progress of *Charles Hartman*?s translations of Yannis Ritsos?s work can be found here . Brian Henry?s translation of Ale? ?teger?s *The Book of Things* (BOA Editions, 2010) won the 2011 Best Translated Book Award for poetry. Presented by the University of Rochester at the 2011 PEN World Voices Festival, the award honors the best original work of international poetry published in the United States during the previous year. He also received a 2011 Howard Foundation fellowship for Literary Translation. *If Not Metamorphic* by *Brenda Iijima* is reviewed in The Quarterly Conversation and The Set. She also has a new chapbook titled *Glossematics, Thus * via Least Weasel Press. A video of *Karla Kelsey* reading from *Iterantion Nets* is available on Jubilat. Her interview by Angela Stubbs is now available online at *The Nervous Breakdown *. On July 19th, she is reading at Poets House (10 River Terrace, at Murray Street, NYC) with Alan Gilbert, Marie-Elizabeth Mali, and Laura Newbern at 7pm. *Rachel Loden*?s poem ?How Should Chicago Be Governed?? is forthcoming in *City of the Big Shoulders: An Anthology of Chicago Poetry*, due out in 2012 from the University of Iowa Press. Forthcoming in Issue 29 of *New American Writing* are poems by *Kristi Maxwell*. Additionally, she has poems in the inaugural issue of *Spittoon *. Maxwell recently joined the POG: Poetry in Action Board of Directors, a collective of poets, literary critics, and practitioners of other art forms in Tucson, Arizona. *Rusty Morrison* has an essay and poems forthcoming in *Beauty Is a Verb*: *The New Poetry of Disability*, which is due to come out Fall 2011. Stephanie Strickland has a new grandson, Ari Jacob, born June 8th at 3:07 am, 7 lbs. on the nose, 20.5" long. Congratulations! *Brian Teare* won the 2011 Lambda Literary Award for Gay Poetry for his book *Pleasure* (Ahsahta Press, 2010). Find an interview with Teare by Stephen Motika of Poet?s House on The Poetry Foundation's blog, Harriet. On June 16th, he will be reading at The Speakeasy (604 56th Street, Oakland, CA), as part of the Condensery Reading Series at 6:30pm with Kevin Killian and Sara Wintz. On July 9th, he will be reading as part of the Sharon Osmond Garden Reading Series (5548 Lawton Avenue, Oakland, CA) at 11am. Also find a video interview by David Perry here, which includes a reading from *Pleasure*. *Susan Tichy* took part in a ?Ballad Summit? in Voorheeville, NY in May with traditional singers Colleen Cleveland and Elizabeth LaPrelle, and forklorist Margaret Yocom and George Ward. The event was sponsored by the Mid-Atlantic Arts Foundation; there are currently plans to publish video of the three days of singing and conversation online in the near future. On July 8th, Tichy will read at new venue for Counterpath Press in Denver, CO. ------------------------------ Coming Next Month: Discount Subscriptions! Join Us on Facebook! [image: facebook1 2]If you?re on Facebook, search out the Ahsahta Press page and click ?Like? to become a friend of ours. You can keep up with events Ahsahta Press authors have, learn about new reviews, and generally stay abreast of what?s happening with the Press. <#1309f09f225214e3_> ------------------------------ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe ------------------------------ Ahsahta Press Boise State University 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1525 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. [image: Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse!] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 17:15:01 2011 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:15:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. In-Reply-To: <8CDFA9AC8A25626-1B48-1EFB2@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFA61C28006B9-2194-237C8@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> <422482.22586.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDFA9AC8A25626-1B48-1EFB2@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I agree with Jay-Z. I like his music and I think there's a tendency to dismiss this aspect of culture and music by those in poetry for a myriad of reasons. Most of them reflected in Stephen's snarky response. I think rap strives for compression and it reflects a lot of the emotions behind an experience that most poets writing these days don't have access to. And hell, if some of the crap I see in Octopus can be called poetry, so can rap. On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 5:15 PM, wrote: > To me, Jay-Z's remark shows the continuing power of the word 'poetry' as a > cultural icon?& honorific. If rap really became?poetry as we know it, it > would be a sorry thing for rap, would it not? > > Ice Kubla Khan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2011 3:37 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. > > a few D.C. takes on familiars: > > Let's do Classic Urban Poems, like 'Stopping by the Hood on a Snowy > Evening', 'The Road Not Tooken', 'I Know Why the Caged Bird Blings', Ode to > the Kanye West Wind', 'Ode to Grecian Earn', Do not Go Gentle into that Good > Booty'. What y'all got for me? > > ________________________________ > From: "jforjames at aol.com" > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 1:27:11 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] rap is poetry, says Jay-Z. > > http://www.theboombox.com/2011/06/15/jay-z-insists-rap-is-poetry-compares-biggie-to-hitchcock/ > > "I hope readers take away from this book that rap is poetry," says Jay-Z. > "It's thought-provoking and there's thought behind it and there's great > writing in rap as well. You never hear rappers being compared for like the > greatest writers of all time. You hear Bob Dylan. So is Biggie Smalls in a > Hitchcock way. Some of the things that Biggie wrote ... Rakim, I mean listen > to some of the things he wrote. I mean if you take those lyrics and you pull > them away from the music and you put 'em up on the wall somewhere and > someone had to look at them, they would say, 'This is genius. This is genius > work.'" > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 17 19:23:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:23:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Message-ID: <4a5c8f42bd1c40eda359e19485eae6b5.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . Meaning, poetry in the States? Always meaning contemporary American poetry though often forgetting to specify that. >From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, pedestrian, but also sacred. I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. For now I mean what most people mean by poetry. I've heard of but don't think I've read Rothenberg's anthology, and don't know enough about it to comment. Not sure what I'd do with verse prayers taxonomically. Don't even want to think about it right now. --Bob From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Yes! A list of the schools of poetry would change everything. Just the other day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go. Luckily, James brought Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets. So that hole is filled. Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the Merging Traffic school. Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? John J The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked enough to want to see more of it. If a list of poetry schools had been available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label! The Antacid school, say. Put that in your search box and you could find it. Or, and this is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and read how they were described and perhaps find one that intrigued you. A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions. For instance, if you decided to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry. If you didn't care for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you. With a decent list of poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools of poetry called visual poetry. You might not like any of them, either, but at least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be of use to me (or anyone else). Worse, you and others may be like such a person who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham. I'm strange, though, for I think that even a county map would be of use to such a person, and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful. I was working on such a list before my operation. Hope to get back to it when I'm home again. The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. It's weird. There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for poetry travelers. Oh, I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is much larger on its map than the former is on its. Better would be New York City/ Wilshberia (which would be close to being literally accurate). On the other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin it instead of by the number of its practitioners. But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep going. It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I don't see how that's a good thing. It also increases the chances of some good new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its author dying never-recognized. The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time on it, even with a list of poetry schools. Why ignore philosophers of poetry, or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 17 19:34:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:34:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Message-ID: <2c1f47e6fcf345a68116853bf5642ea6.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Perhaps the value of classification is over-rated? I've never seen it anything but under-rated. Yes, after classifying you do know something, even something of value. The problem seems to be many people stop there. (Olson makes that point often.) The ineffective use of some X doesn't necessarily mean the X is ineffective. Also, classifcation of poetry is only one of the many procedures it seems to me one should follow to form a valuable understanding of poetry, which should not be taken against it. I simply can't imagine any kind of useful conceptual understanding of poetry or anything else without taxonomy. But I'm only talking about working up intelligent tags for schools of poetry. Can't see how it could hurt. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 17 19:42:10 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:42:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Message-ID: As Beckett said, There's man all over, blaming on his boot the fault of his foot. Cheers, Jerry Just what I just said, although he said it a mite better than I did, I have to admit. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 17 19:57:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:57:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] T. S. be trash talking now Message-ID: <8CDFB616CB04408-EAC-225E@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mediabistro.com/ebooknewser/t-s-eliots-the-waste-land-is-top-grossing-ipad-book-app_b12470 T.S. Eliot?s The Waste Land is the top grossing iPad book app in the Apple App store this week. The app, has been on the top grossing app list since its debut in iTunes last week. The classic poem knocks Marvel?s comic book app out of the No. 1 spot. The Marvel app has been dominating the list for the past few weeks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 17 20:09:35 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:09:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV In-Reply-To: <764200.58348.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CDFB23CD3479E9-27B4-3DEAE@webmail-m132.sysops.aol.com> <764200.58348.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDFB6323DEAC88-EAC-240A@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> You mean he was a pagan or druid before? -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Didn't he convert to Christianity? From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:36:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n11/michael-wood/i-really-mean-like I really mean like Michael Wood The Complete Works of W.H. Auden: Prose Vol. IV, 1956-62 edited by Edward Mendelson Princeton, 982 pp, ?44.95, January 2011, ISBN 978 0 691 14755 0 In a poem from the early 1960s, ?On the Circuit?, W.H. Auden describes himself as ?a sulky fifty-six?, who finds ?A change of meal-time utter hell?, and has ?Grown far too crotchety to like/A luxury hotel?. There is plenty of self-parody in this picture ? a little later in the poem he identifies his worry about where the next drink is coming from as ?grahamgreeneish? ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Comedy was one sort of arrangement, and an important feature of his view of life; but he was seriously ?unsettled?, as Edward Mendelson says, and had acquired ?a profound new sense of menace and dread?. / Related from Don Share's blog... Critics that get on your nerves http://donshare.blogspot.com/2011/05/four-varieties-of-critic-that-get-on.html _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 18 13:01:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools In-Reply-To: <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <365107.69822.qm@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & Jeff McDaniel turn me on to Matt Cook: & there's also the late Jim Carroll, fine poet and 80's rock star. Matt Cook James Joyce He was stupid He didn't know as much as me I'd rather throw dead batteries at cows than read him Everything was going fine before he came along He started the Civil War He tried to get the French involved, but they wouldn't listen They filled him up with desserts He talked about all the great boxers that came from Ireland Like he trained them or something Then he started reading some of his stuff Right as we told him to get lost He brought up the potato famine We said "Your potatoes are plenty good" "Deal with it" "Work it out somehow" Then he said "America must adopt the metric system, it's much more logical" We said "No ! We like our rulers, go away" Thomas Jefferson said you always get the rulers you deserve ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:57:26 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools Yeah. In D.C. he performed at slams, but his mentality was always as you say-- measured and thoughtful. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his books). Jerry On 6/17/2011 1:39 PM, stephen russell wrote: There was once a genuine populist niche for poetry. >In D.C., pulitzer prize winner Henry Taylor would read and compete at Spoken >Word events. >& slam performers such a Jeffrey McDaniels were lauded by senior poets such >as Bill Knott. >Bill Knott offered the best blurbs for Jeffrey D's early work. > >McDaniel's, former slam champ, now teaches at Sarah Lawrence. > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:23:35 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > >But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said >before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry >read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . > >Meaning, poetry in the States? >>From an ethno poetics point of view, poetry may simply be a part of daily life, >>pedestrian, but also sacred. >> > >I'm thinking specifically of an anthology I read maybe 15 or 20 years ago. >Jerome Rothenberg's Technicians of the Sacred. > > > > > > > ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:31:31 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > >Yes! A list of the schools of poetry would change everything. Just the other >day I was looking for some Seamstress poetry, but because I didn't have a list >of the schools of poetry, I didn't know where to go. Luckily, James brought >Hazel Hall to my attention, one of the leading Seamstress poets. So that hole >is filled. > > > >Now, if I only knew some poets that wrote in the Antacid school of poetry or the >Merging Traffic school. Oh, where is that schools of poetry list? > > > >John J > >The idea, of course, is that someday, however unlikely, you may find yourself >outside all of Wilshberia and run into a whole kind of work previously unknown >to you that, unlikely--no, impossible--as it may seem, you liked, even liked >enough to want to see more of it. If a list of poetry schools had been >available for a while, this new kind of poetry might have a label! The Antacid >school, say. Put that in your search box and you could find it. Or, and this >is even more unlikely, you got bored with the kind of poetry you'd focused on >all you life, and wanted to explore, you could consult a list of schools and >read how they were described and perhaps find one that intrigued you. > >A list, too, could prevent mistaken assumptions. For instance, if you decided >to investigate visual poetry on the Internet, the chances are good that you >would learn a lot about what is being called "asemic poetry" and is considered >visual poetry by its authors but not by me, but very possibly not learn about >many other kinds of poetry also considered visual poetry. If you didn't care >for asemic poetry, maybe because you thought poetry should contain words, you >might assume visual poetry was of no interest to you. With a decent list of >poetry schools, though, you would quickly find out about all five or six schools >of poetry called visual poetry. You might not like any of them, either, but at >least you could feel you'd given the variety a fair try. >Your response is like that of some living in, well, Port Charlotte, Florida, >where I do, and being too satisfied with it to believe any map could possibly be >of use to me (or anyone else). Worse, you and others may be like such a person >who believes Port Charlotte is the whole world--like David Graham. I'm strange, >though, for I think that even a county map would be of use to such a >person, and that a list of schools just in Wilshberia would be helpful. I was >working on such a list before my operation. Hope to get back to it when I'm >home again. The laptop I have here has none of the files I need to continue it. > >It's weird. There are all kinds of travel books available for travelers, but so >many poets react--well, as you and Finnegan do, John--when it comes to aid for >poetry travelers. > > >Oh, I do see the flaw in my Port Charotte/ Wilshberia analogy: the latter is >much larger on its map than the former is on its. Better would be New York >City/ Wilshberia (which would be close to being literally accurate). On the >other hand, the territory on the serious poetry continuum outisde Wilshberia is >much larger than Wilshberia if you go by the diversity of what is going on iin >it instead of by the number of its practitioners. > >But the poetry of Wilshberia is not the most popular poetry, as I've said >before, the poetry of subWilshberia is: most of the doggerel and other poetry >read at small town poetry readings,, pop lyrics, greeting card verse . . . > >One reason Finnegan's notion that there's no reason one need take less that ten >years or more to happen upon a good kind of poetry is that someone making it may >not have the money to hang on that long waiting for enough recognition to keep >going. It also gives status quo poets longer time to become entrenched, and I >don't see how that's a good thing. It also increases the chances of some good >new kind of poetry's being missed for much longer than ten years, with its >author dying never-recognized. > > >The greatest flaw with it is its seeming indifference to the conceptual >undestanding of poetry, which would be hard enough for someone working full-time >on it, even with a list of poetry schools. Why ignore philosophers of poetry, >or whatever you want to call them, simply because their interests are not yours? > >--Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 18 12:56:11 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV In-Reply-To: <8CDFB6323DEAC88-EAC-240A@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFB23CD3479E9-27B4-3DEAE@webmail-m132.sysops.aol.com> <764200.58348.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDFB6323DEAC88-EAC-240A@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <947151.39446.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> no, he was a confused Brit. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 8:09:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV You mean he was a pagan or druid before? -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Didn't he convert to Christianity? ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 12:36:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] All of Auden: Prose Vol IV http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n11/michael-wood/i-really-mean-like I really mean like Michael Wood The Complete Works of W.H. Auden: Prose Vol. IV, 1956-62 edited by Edward Mendelson Princeton, 982 pp, ?44.95, January 2011, ISBN 978 0 691 14755 0 In a poem from the early 1960s, ?On the Circuit?, W.H. Auden describes himself as ?a sulky fifty-six?, who finds ?A change of meal-time utter hell?, and has ?Grown far too crotchety to like/A luxury hotel?. There is plenty of self-parody in this picture ? a little later in the poem he identifies his worry about where the next drink is coming from as ?grahamgreeneish? ? but this was a time when Auden was rearranging his sense of himself and of his world. Comedy was one sort of arrangement, and an important feature of his view of life; but he was seriously ?unsettled?, as Edward Mendelson says, and had acquired ?a profound new sense of menace and dread?. / Related from Don Share's blog... Critics that get on your nerves http://donshare.blogspot.com/2011/05/four-varieties-of-critic-that-get-on.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 18 13:14:40 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larry Flint poetics Message-ID: <179059.60544.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sad, but true: A found poem -- Larry Flint's Modest Proposal Mr. Weiner: After having learned of your sudden and compelled resignation from your Congressional post, I would like to make you an offer of employment at Flynt Management Group, LLC in our Internet group. As a Congressman, you are known for your intensity and perseverance. I believe that this attitude, combined with your service in the House of Representatives' Committee on Energy and Commerce, will make you a valuable asset to this corporation. This offer is not made in jest. To show our sincerity, Flynt Management Group, LLC is willing to pay twenty percent more than your former Congressional salary, ensuring that your medical benefits would be equal to what you were previously receiving. While you will have to relocate to our corporate offices in Beverly Hills, California, we would pay for all relocation costs. Again, I cannot emphasize enough the genuineness of this offer. We are a serious corporation which, as you know, has been heavily involved in the political environment of this country for over thirty-five years. Our key missions have consistently included the crucial fight of battling hypocrisy within the federal and state governments. Flynt Management Group, LLC and Hustler Magazine have been dedicated to decades of serious political commentary. Just as we do not undertake insincere political crusades, we do not make insincere job offers. While this employment opportunity is being offered in large part due to your qualifications and clear passion for making a change, I feel that your unfortunate resignation is a prime example of unfounded political pressure and the hypocrisy that has invaded democracy in Washington D.C. I hope you will sincerely consider this offer, and I look forward to your response. Sincerely, Larry C. Flynt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Jun 18 14:25:55 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 18:25:55 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larry Flint poetics In-Reply-To: <179059.60544.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <179059.60544.qm@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Drop it into an aquarium of holy water. Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:14:40 -0700 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Larry Flint poetics Sad, but true: A found poem -- Larry Flint's Modest Proposal Mr. Weiner: After having learned of your sudden and compelled resignation from your Congressional post, I would like to make you an offer of employment at Flynt Management Group, LLC in our Internet group. As a Congressman, you are known for your intensity and perseverance. I believe that this attitude, combined with your service in the House of Representatives' Committee on Energy and Commerce, will make you a valuable asset to this corporation. This offer is not made in jest. To show our sincerity, Flynt Management Group, LLC is willing to pay twenty percent more than your former Congressional salary, ensuring that your medical benefits would be equal to what you were previously receiving. While you will have to relocate to our corporate offices in Beverly Hills, California, we would pay for all relocation costs. Again, I cannot emphasize enough the genuineness of this offer. We are a serious corporation which, as you know, has been heavily involved in the political environment of this country for over thirty-five years. Our key missions have consistently included the crucial fight of battling hypocrisy within the federal and state governments. Flynt Management Group, LLC and Hustler Magazine have been dedicated to decades of serious political commentary. Just as we do not undertake insincere political crusades, we do not make insincere job offers. While this employment opportunity is being offered in large part due to your qualifications and clear passion for making a change, I feel that your unfortunate resignation is a prime example of unfounded political pressure and the hypocrisy that has invaded democracy in Washington D.C. I hope you will sincerely consider this offer, and I look forward to your response. Sincerely, Larry C. Flynt _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jun 18 21:47:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:47:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] T. S. be trash talking now In-Reply-To: <8CDFB616CB04408-EAC-225E@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDFB616CB04408-EAC-225E@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDFC39EDC267BF-EAC-18EB6@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> This just in: Many who downloaded the app complained to Apple when they realized "The Waste Land" was not a video game in which zombies and alien lifeforms could be blasted into colorful pixels. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 7:57 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] T. S. be trash talking now http://www.mediabistro.com/ebooknewser/t-s-eliots-the-waste-land-is-top-grossing-ipad-book-app_b12470 T.S. Eliot?s The Waste Land is the top grossing iPad book app in the Apple App store this week. The app, has been on the top grossing app list since its debut in iTunes last week. The classic poem knocks Marvel?s comic book app out of the No. 1 spot. The Marvel app has been dominating the list for the past few weeks. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jun 19 01:10:49 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 00:10:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. But they're usually worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a while. In my view, "slam" is ripe for some questioning. (I've argued the same thing about "confessional" in the past.) I like McDaniel's poems. And he's a strong performer of them. But I also think it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" except when it refers, well, to a slam: an oral competition of poetry recitations, with 3 minute time limits, numerical scoring by a panel of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into other areas. Some are content to be called "spoken word" or "performance" poets, or similar terms; other poets fiercely resist any labels and want to be just judged as poets, period. And I think they have a point. For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, that the term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she hasn't slammed in many years, has published a number of well regarded print books, earned an M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so forth. And I'd say she's quite right to feel that the term is used, consciously or not, to marginalize and minimize her and other poets who came up through the slam ranks. Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at slams is a good question. Some would say it's long since been answered; just roll the tapes and see how good poets like Jack McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as compared, say, to Charles Wright or James Tate. Even more interesting is to think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so on. Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, bombastic and slack and simplistic, etc. But plenty of all these qualities in the print world, too. Very few slammers are ever going to be as good as Patricia Smith was in her competitive days, but we don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > > I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his books). > > Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 19 07:17:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 07:17:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Message-ID: we don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . --David Graham Needless to say, I rarely open a New Yorker, and when I do so, it's almost always entirely for the cartoons, lame as they generally are. But I believe most people who read the poems in the magazine do expect to read "The Wasteland." What they would be horrified to come across would be a poem which is to our time what Eliot's was to his time. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 09:42:38 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 09:42:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? Message-ID: For an essay I'm writing about a play with an Asperger's character, I looked up the signs and symptoms of that condition, and came across the phrase "restricted prosody and intonation." I understand the intonation part; monotone, flat affect. But what about the prosody? I've never encountered the word outside discussions of literature. Is "prosody" also a speech therapy term of art? What do they mean by it? Talking only in iambs? Avoidance of awkward spondees? Help! Any hints would be appreciated. -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 ?802-989-4314 From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Jun 19 10:36:33 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 09:36:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DFE0971.6010602@louisiana.edu> David, I came across the term once studying linguistics (it had to do with shift patterns in Turkish vowels; it seems that they shift towards each other, and in more or less regular ways, when spoken). I remember that this was a great surprise to Khach Tololyan, who spoke the language. In any case, linguistics uses it to describe patterns of stress, pitch, and other dynamic values in spoken language. Wikipedia has a very good and thorough explanation, which doesn't seem to have been written by drunken pranksters. Best, Jerry On 6/19/2011 8:42 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > For an essay I'm writing about a play with an Asperger's character, I > looked up the signs and symptoms of that condition, and came across > the phrase "restricted prosody and intonation." I understand the > intonation part; monotone, flat affect. But what about the prosody? > I've never encountered the word outside discussions of literature. Is > "prosody" also a speech therapy term of art? What do they mean by it? > Talking only in iambs? Avoidance of awkward spondees? Help! > > Any hints would be appreciated. > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Jun 19 10:39:09 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 09:39:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DFE0A0D.6000500@louisiana.edu> I neglected to mention, David, that in my very small interaction with persons with Asperger's, it was easy to detect (but difficult to define) a quality of flatness in their vocal dynamics (for which, I understand, they sometimes consciously over-compensate). No doubt this has to do with associated difficulties in handling emotional dynamics. Jerry On 6/19/2011 8:42 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > For an essay I'm writing about a play with an Asperger's character, I > looked up the signs and symptoms of that condition, and came across > the phrase "restricted prosody and intonation." I understand the > intonation part; monotone, flat affect. But what about the prosody? > I've never encountered the word outside discussions of literature. Is > "prosody" also a speech therapy term of art? What do they mean by it? > Talking only in iambs? Avoidance of awkward spondees? Help! > > Any hints would be appreciated. > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Jun 19 11:23:17 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 10:23:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> I agree with nearly all of what David Graham says here. (An exception has to do with what feels to me like an overstatement of Patricia Smith's skills. possibly because I saw her give an appalling presentation once in which she used audience prompts to "write poems" [she'd seize on a word and immediately twist it into line, and usually into rhyme, with her characteristic conventional thinking.]) But my gut reactions to poetry very different from my own aren't pertinent here. David makes an excellent point about the way poets (everyone, no doubt, but with poets it's an occupational illness) weigh down their "critical assessments" with tacit ad hominems. When I used the phrase "slam poet" to distinguish Jeffrey McDaniel (a poet I like a lot) from a type, style, school, attitude, and/or agency of poetry that I by and large haven't liked, I was doing just that. (It's one of the things I like least about poets, beginning with myself; I attribute it to our being specially insecure about the value of the art[s] we practice, and to "defending" our own practice by generically, habitually, and with malice more or less aforethought implicitly trashing the work others try to do in other dimensions of the art(s) in question. [And yes, I don't know if poetry is an art of many facets or a loose assemblage of arts and crafts. I only know it is marked by an ugly unpleasantness that I make every effort to avoid. And yet I can't avoid it.] Robert Christgau, the music critic from the Village Voice, used to distinguish the writers he liked (song lyricists like Linton Kwesi Johnson) from "print poets." I remember the pinch I felt when I first read that. I've been to a fair number of poetry slams, and have tended to find them good-natured, rather sloshy fun, full of mostly young people with high aspirations, sometimes over-high self-estimations, and what I'd call poor judgment as to their managing their dynamics; and of course (I'm thinking here of Christian Champagne, a terrific poet from the slam scene in New Orleans) there are nearly always one or two who rise above the pack. Put this way, slam poetry seems just like all poetry. (Who hasn't wished that the prosodic dynamics at a bookish poetry reading weren't more lively, and that a fair number of the people there wouldn't wallow so in their own self-inflation?) The best single thing I've read in the past ten years concerning thinking and talking about the arts comes from composer Morton Feldman's _Give My Regards to Eighth Street_. He said that after a fairly long span of his life spent trashing people who didn't live up to his expectations as composers, he chose to admire effort and achievement wherever he found it, however different from his own. Once I understood that, my life changed. My attitude towards poetry (and especially poets) changed. And yet I still slip--it's much too easy! Perhaps the easiest way to slip (besides plain meanness) is the implicit ad hominem, which is eased into place by easy acquiescence about schools, styles, dispositions, and agencies. We can't talk about poetry sensibly without acknowledging its varieties; but loading down those varieties with attitudinal vulgarities about their relative worth (slam, vispo, langpo, modernism, song lyric, rap, folk verse, jingle, haiku, avant garde, print poetry, digipo, etc., etc., etc., etc.) has a tendency to turn every discussion of poetry into a pissing contest. I'm sorry I slipped--honestly, I'm not interested in any poetics whose practitioners don't try to be better than that. Which still leaves the question (and for another day) about how to talk sensibly about a difference like that between David's and my perception of a writer like Patricia Smith. Yrs, Jerry On 6/19/2011 12:10 AM, David Graham wrote: > Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* > Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. > > I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. But they're > usually worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a > while. In my view, "slam" is ripe for some questioning. (I've argued > the same thing about "confessional" in the past.) > > I like McDaniel's poems. And he's a strong performer of them. But I > also think it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" > except when it refers, well, to a slam: an oral competition of poetry > recitations, with 3 minute time limits, numerical scoring by a panel > of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. > > Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into > other areas. Some are content to be called "spoken word" or > "performance" poets, or similar terms; other poets fiercely resist any > labels and want to be just judged as poets, period. And I think they > have a point. > > For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, > that the term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she > hasn't slammed in many years, has published a number of well regarded > print books, earned an M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so > forth. And I'd say she's quite right to feel that the term is used, > consciously or not, to marginalize and minimize her and other poets > who came up through the slam ranks. > > Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at > slams is a good question. Some would say it's long since been > answered; just roll the tapes and see how good poets like Jack > McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as compared, say, to Charles > Wright or James Tate. Even more interesting is to think about whether > there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, > if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so > on. > > Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, > bombastic and slack and simplistic, etc. But plenty of all these > qualities in the print world, too. Very few slammers are ever going > to be as good as Patricia Smith was in her competitive days, but we > don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste > Land," either. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > >> *To:*NewPoetry List > > >> *Sent:*Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM >> *Subject:*Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools >> >> I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for >> my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was >> at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very >> measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of >> dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his >> books). >> >> Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 12:20:19 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 09:20:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: <4DFE0A0D.6000500@louisiana.edu> References: <4DFE0A0D.6000500@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: This explains the reading style of some poets. - Jim On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > ** > I neglected to mention, David, that in my very small interaction with > persons with Asperger's, it was easy to detect (but difficult to define) a > quality of flatness in their vocal dynamics (for which, I understand, they > sometimes consciously over-compensate). No doubt this has to do with > associated difficulties in handling emotional dynamics. > > Jerry > > On 6/19/2011 8:42 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > > For an essay I'm writing about a play with an Asperger's character, I > looked up the signs and symptoms of that condition, and came across > the phrase "restricted prosody and intonation." I understand the > intonation part; monotone, flat affect. But what about the prosody? > I've never encountered the word outside discussions of literature. Is > "prosody" also a speech therapy term of art? What do they mean by it? > Talking only in iambs? Avoidance of awkward spondees? Help! > > Any hints would be appreciated. > > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patriciafanderson at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 12:27:17 2011 From: patriciafanderson at gmail.com (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:27:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't imagine being able to write a persuasive Asperger character without personal experience with the condition. Perhaps if you have good friends who have a lot of experience? Aspies are all unique. It is extremely rare for all signs & symptoms to be manifested in a singly individual. Regarding prosody, ah, well, sigh. Here is a page on prosody in autism spectrum disorders. The best explanation I've seen is in Tony Attwood's book: Tony is THE international #1 expert on Aspergers. The example he gives is very typical of something my son would say. Father: Please empty all the bins. Teen Son: OK. [later] Done. Father [irritated]: Why didn't you empty those bins? Teen Son: Those aren't bins, they are wicker baskets. Riiiiight. That's my kid! Typically, they will have very precise partial definitions of a term, and refuse (to the point of meltdown) to accept either alternate terms for the same definition, alternate definitions for the same term, slang, cultural or linguistic alternatives, implications, subtle shadings of meaning, essentially excluding the poetry of language. That said, curiously, my son is an excellent poet, but is compelled to rhyme. You'll notice that many of the descriptions of Asperger Syndrome confuse AS with HFA (High Functioning Autism). Tony Attwood does not. I find his perceptions the most clear of anything I've read on the topic. My son is Aspergers, my brother is High Functioning Autism. I find the two conditions clearly different in exactly the ways Tony describes, but many people who lack rich experience with both find it hard to tell the difference. Regarding the specific vocal communication patterns, my HFA brother has more of the flattened and eccentric vocal style. My son shifts. When talking about a topic that he is expert on and comfortable with, he might seem normal; then when the topic changes, he becomes more constrained and inflexible and flattened. His body language and facial dynamics also shift, from animated to a flat stare. Typical of both is for people to try to switch topics back to what they are comfortable talking about. Also typical is for something said to remind them of something else. Their very bright quick mind make a number of associations, and the next thing to come out of their mouth sounds completely off topic, because they skip the part about articulating the steps that connect the dots. I don't know if any of this is helpful. Good luck, - Patricia On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:42 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > For an essay I'm writing about a play with an Asperger's character, I > looked up the signs and symptoms of that condition, and came across > the phrase "restricted prosody and intonation." I understand the > intonation part; monotone, flat affect. But what about the prosody? > I've never encountered the word outside discussions of literature. Is > "prosody" also a speech therapy term of art? What do they mean by it? > Talking only in iambs? Avoidance of awkward spondees? Help! > > Any hints would be appreciated. > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 ?802-989-4314 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 "Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will give you the right one." Anonymous. From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jun 19 13:01:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:01:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net><13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu><692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CDFCB99AEFF0C5-1DC-483D8@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> I don't disagree with much of this, but I for one (a former slam poet; Ann Arbor '96, our team was eliminated in the early rounds) hold that time as a period of great value. If I were a multi-time slam champ like Patricia Smith I would hold that a badge of honor for the rest of my life and let the narrow-minded pedants and little literati sniff as they might. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jun 19, 2011 1:10 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. But they're usually worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a while. In my view, "slam" is ripe for some questioning. (I've argued the same thing about "confessional" in the past.) I like McDaniel's poems. And he's a strong performer of them. But I also think it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" except when it refers, well, to a slam: an oral competition of poetry recitations, with 3 minute time limits, numerical scoring by a panel of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into other areas. Some are content to be called "spoken word" or "performance" poets, or similar terms; other poets fiercely resist any labels and want to be just judged as poets, period. And I think they have a point. For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, that the term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she hasn't slammed in many years, has published a number of well regarded print books, earned an M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so forth. And I'd say she's quite right to feel that the term is used, consciously or not, to marginalize and minimize her and other poets who came up through the slam ranks. Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at slams is a good question. Some would say it's long since been answered; just roll the tapes and see how good poets like Jack McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as compared, say, to Charles Wright or James Tate. Even more interesting is to think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so on. Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, bombastic and slack and simplistic, etc. But plenty of all these qualities in the print world, too. Very few slammers are ever going to be as good as Patricia Smith was in her competitive days, but we don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his books). Jerry = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 16:00:19 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:00:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you all very much. I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but Aspergers is suspected. Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going to ask the director. I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they may also drop Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, no longer recognized. Is it like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? Again, thanks to all. From patriciafanderson at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 16:29:48 2011 From: patriciafanderson at gmail.com (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:29:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very interesting research in the genomics of autism spectrum and related disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of action actually happens. Very divisive. The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. This is a great example of the power of language and naming. - Patricia On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > Thank you all very much. > > I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal > of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has > something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but > Aspergers is suspected. > > Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the > actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the > family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going > to ask the director. > > I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering > dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they > may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it > feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it > like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? > > Again, thanks to all. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 "Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will give you the right one." Anonymous. From junction at earthlink.net Sun Jun 19 17:00:22 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:00:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <27619375.1308517222330.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I haven't been following this thread at all--this is my first dip into it. The DSM, as I recall, was established to codify insurance billing--each diagnosis has a numerical value for use in forms. It's never been a very good diagnostic tool, and it has become way more influential as such than intended or foreseen. To the extent that a diagnosis travels with a patient (not a good assumption in the US, where different hospitals and doctors don't have access to each other's information about a patient, and even insurance companies aren't supposed to share info--good luck with that) a patient's label gives me an initial hypohesis and if the label appears correct a set of expectations. No matter what they wind up calling it I don't expect to "cure" a narcissistic patient, for instance, and in the unlikely event that the patient continues treatment for any length of time I would probably die of boredom while helping said patient control his or her behavior. But of course that assumes that the clinician will take the time or have the skill--if the label has traveled it will almost certainly stick, and it may do damge. How's that for marginally coherent? -----Original Message----- >From: Patricia F Anderson >Sent: Jun 19, 2011 4:29 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > >Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the >potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting >things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very >interesting research in the genomics of autism spectrum and related >disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed >distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a >problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would >end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base >shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the >DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of >action actually happens. Very divisive. > >The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger >Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that >the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and >concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support >would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels >of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. > >Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may >not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood >is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other >countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and >recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. > >This is a great example of the power of language and naming. > > - Patricia > >On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock > wrote: >> Thank you all very much. >> >> I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal >> of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has >> something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but >> Aspergers is suspected. >> >> Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the >> actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the >> family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going >> to ask the director. >> >> I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering >> dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they >> may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it >> feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it >> like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? >> >> Again, thanks to all. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > >-- >Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable >pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com >Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University >of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 >"Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will >give you the right one." Anonymous. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 02:18:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:18:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wonder if you have read Martian Time-Slip by Philip Dick, book I just finished reading. Manfred is autistic, and Jack Bohlen suffers from bouts of schizophrenia. What I am asking is, how accurate are his intuitions on both conditions? On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Patricia F Anderson < patriciafanderson at gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the > potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting > things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very > interesting research in the genomics of autism spectrum and related > disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed > distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a > problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would > end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base > shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the > DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of > action actually happens. Very divisive. > > The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger > Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that > the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and > concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support > would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels > of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. > > Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may > not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood > is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other > countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and > recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. > > This is a great example of the power of language and naming. > > - Patricia > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock > wrote: > > Thank you all very much. > > > > I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal > > of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has > > something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but > > Aspergers is suspected. > > > > Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the > > actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the > > family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going > > to ask the director. > > > > I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering > > dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they > > may also drop Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it > > feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, no longer recognized. Is it > > like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? > > > > Again, thanks to all. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable > pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com > Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University > of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 > "Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will > give you the right one." Anonymous. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Mon Jun 20 08:34:28 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:34:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?Thinking_about_establishing_a_nanop?= =?windows-1252?q?ress=3F_a_special_offer_for_you_=96_free_publication_leg?= =?windows-1252?q?work?= In-Reply-To: <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net>, <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you are a poet in this situation and would like to establish your own nanopress to publish your manuscript, here?s an offer for you to consider. Find yourself an editor (see comments here) who will agree to edit your manuscript and publish it under both your names, and, if I like the proposed partnership, I will offer ? free ? publication legwork services. The honing and finalization of the manuscript will be up to you and your editor-partner, and I would also ask that you find and obtain permission to use the cover art. Give me these elements and I will do all the publication legwork free for you ? design and publish the manuscript as website, PDF download, e-book, print version and (if you are doing audio) CD ? see the typical multi-format production steps here. A strictly non-profit operation. The print and CD versions to be sold via Lulu at cost-price (you will buy your own review copies) and all the other formats to be available free. You can get an idea of what the final publication(s) will look like here and here. Marketing and promotion will be up to you. Email me at nic_sebastian at hotmail.com if you have a good proposal. Best, Nic Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Forever Will End on Thursday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 09:55:08 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Slam is about performance. Bob Holman teaches performing techinque. Slams are/were fun. I enjoyed them (back in the day). They've disappeared from D.C. It's wasn't difficult to distinguish the performers from the actual poets. Many of the performers had the knack of hiding the quality of their words behind the bravado of their stage presence. A bad cook can hide poor quality by smothering a dish with all sorts of spices. But the good poets stood out, and McDaniel's was the best of the bunch (of anyone I saw in D.C.). He knew his craft. He relished words. And had fun performing. Most of all, he didn't try to win the competition. He didn't care. He encouraged young poets who wanted to learn. His approach to others was always open, generous. ?[And yes, I don't know if poetry is an art of many facets or a loose assemblage of arts and crafts. I only know it is marked by an ugly unpleasantness that I make every effort to avoid. And yet I can't avoid it.] ? Isn't poetry both an art of many facets as well as a loose assemblage of arts and crafts? That, to me, seems its strength. I prefer that it remain allusive. I know people, well read, in fact, bookish men and women who consider poetry suspect. Poetry doesn't look like prose. It doesn't have a well defined narrative. It remains a question mark. These are the same people who write off most contemporary art because it's not easy to define. D.C. people are o.k. when it comes to reading the editorial page of a newspaper, but they're lost when they have ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, June 19, 2011 11:23:17 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories I agree with nearly all of what David Graham says here. (An exception has to do with what feels to me like an overstatement of Patricia Smith's skills. possibly because I saw her give an appalling presentation once in which she used audience prompts to "write poems" [she'd seize on a word and immediately twist it into line, and usually into rhyme, with her characteristic conventional thinking.]) But my gut reactions to poetry very different from my own aren't pertinent here. David makes an excellent point about the way poets (everyone, no doubt, but with poets it's an occupational illness) weigh down their "critical assessments" with tacit ad hominems. When I used the phrase "slam poet" to distinguish Jeffrey McDaniel (a poet I like a lot) from a type, style, school, attitude, and/or agency of poetry that I by and large haven't liked, I was doing just that. (It's one of the things I like least about poets, beginning with myself; I attribute it to our being specially insecure about the value of the art[s] we practice, and to "defending" our own practice by generically, habitually, and with malice more or less aforethought implicitly trashing the work others try to do in other dimensions of the art(s) in question. [And yes, I don't know if poetry is an art of many facets or a loose assemblage of arts and crafts. I only know it is marked by an ugly unpleasantness that I make every effort to avoid. And yet I can't avoid it.] Robert Christgau, the music critic from the Village Voice, used to distinguish the writers he liked (song lyricists like Linton Kwesi Johnson) from "print poets." I remember the pinch I felt when I first read that. I've been to a fair number of poetry slams, and have tended to find them good-natured, rather sloshy fun, full of mostly young people with high aspirations, sometimes over-high self-estimations, and what I'd call poor judgment as to their managing their dynamics; and of course (I'm thinking here of Christian Champagne, a terrific poet from the slam scene in New Orleans) there are nearly always one or two who rise above the pack. Put this way, slam poetry seems just like all poetry. (Who hasn't wished that the prosodic dynamics at a bookish poetry reading weren't more lively, and that a fair number of the people there wouldn't wallow so in their own self-inflation?) The best single thing I've read in the past ten years concerning thinking and talking about the arts comes from composer Morton Feldman's _Give My Regards to Eighth Street_. He said that after a fairly long span of his life spent trashing people who didn't live up to his expectations as composers, he chose to admire effort and achievement wherever he found it, however different from his own. Once I understood that, my life changed. My attitude towards poetry (and especially poets) changed. And yet I still slip--it's much too easy! Perhaps the easiest way to slip (besides plain meanness) is the implicit ad hominem, which is eased into place by easy acquiescence about schools, styles, dispositions, and agencies. We can't talk about poetry sensibly without acknowledging its varieties; but loading down those varieties with attitudinal vulgarities about their relative worth (slam, vispo, langpo, modernism, song lyric, rap, folk verse, jingle, haiku, avant garde, print poetry, digipo, etc., etc., etc., etc.) has a tendency to turn every discussion of poetry into a pissing contest. I'm sorry I slipped--honestly, I'm not interested in any poetics whose practitioners don't try to be better than that. Which still leaves the question (and for another day) about how to talk sensibly about a difference like that between David's and my perception of a writer like Patricia Smith. Yrs, Jerry On 6/19/2011 12:10 AM, David Graham wrote: Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. > > >I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. ?But they're usually >worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a while. ?In my view, >"slam" is ripe for some questioning. ?(I've argued the same thing about >"confessional" in the past.) > > >I like McDaniel's poems. ?And he's a strong performer of them. ?But I also think >it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" except when it refers, >well, to a slam: ?an oral competition of poetry recitations, with 3 minute time >limits, numerical scoring by a panel of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. > > > >Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into other areas. >?Some are content to be called "spoken word" or "performance" poets, or similar >terms; other poets fiercely resist any labels and want to be just judged as >poets, period. ?And I think they have a point. > > >For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, that the >term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she hasn't slammed in >many years, has published a number of well regarded print books, earned an >M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so forth. ?And I'd say she's quite >right to feel that the term is used, consciously or not, to marginalize and >minimize her and other poets who came up through the slam ranks. ? > > >Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at slams is a >good question. ?Some would say it's long since been answered; just roll the >tapes and see how good poets like Jack McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as >compared, say, to Charles Wright or James Tate. ?Even more interesting is to >think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are >unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, >and so on. ? > > >Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, bombastic and >slack and simplistic, etc. ?But plenty of all these qualities in the print >world, too. ?Very few slammers are ever going to be as good as Patricia Smith >was in her competitive days, but we don't open each week's *New Yorker* >expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . > > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > > >On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > >To:?NewPoetry List >>Sent:?Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM >>Subject:?Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools >> >>I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my >>confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). >>He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful >>with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of >>creepy ironic wit (as are his books). >> >>Jerry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 09:58:34 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <762431.91417.qm@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> yikes, didn't complete the sentence. ... when it comes to reading the editoral page of a newpaper, but they're lost when they have to think for themselves. ... there ... finished. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 9:55:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Slam is about performance. Bob Holman teaches performing techinque. Slams are/were fun. I enjoyed them (back in the day). They've disappeared from D.C. It's wasn't difficult to distinguish the performers from the actual poets. Many of the performers had the knack of hiding the quality of their words behind the bravado of their stage presence. A bad cook can hide poor quality by smothering a dish with all sorts of spices. But the good poets stood out, and McDaniel's was the best of the bunch (of anyone I saw in D.C.). He knew his craft. He relished words. And had fun performing. Most of all, he didn't try to win the competition. He didn't care. He encouraged young poets who wanted to learn. His approach to others was always open, generous. ?[And yes, I don't know if poetry is an art of many facets or a loose assemblage of arts and crafts. I only know it is marked by an ugly unpleasantness that I make every effort to avoid. And yet I can't avoid it.] ? Isn't poetry both an art of many facets as well as a loose assemblage of arts and crafts? That, to me, seems its strength. I prefer that it remain allusive. I know people, well read, in fact, bookish men and women who consider poetry suspect. Poetry doesn't look like prose. It doesn't have a well defined narrative. It remains a question mark. These are the same people who write off most contemporary art because it's not easy to define. D.C. people are o.k. when it comes to reading the editorial page of a newspaper, but they're lost when they have ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, June 19, 2011 11:23:17 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories I agree with nearly all of what David Graham says here. (An exception has to do with what feels to me like an overstatement of Patricia Smith's skills. possibly because I saw her give an appalling presentation once in which she used audience prompts to "write poems" [she'd seize on a word and immediately twist it into line, and usually into rhyme, with her characteristic conventional thinking.]) But my gut reactions to poetry very different from my own aren't pertinent here. David makes an excellent point about the way poets (everyone, no doubt, but with poets it's an occupational illness) weigh down their "critical assessments" with tacit ad hominems. When I used the phrase "slam poet" to distinguish Jeffrey McDaniel (a poet I like a lot) from a type, style, school, attitude, and/or agency of poetry that I by and large haven't liked, I was doing just that. (It's one of the things I like least about poets, beginning with myself; I attribute it to our being specially insecure about the value of the art[s] we practice, and to "defending" our own practice by generically, habitually, and with malice more or less aforethought implicitly trashing the work others try to do in other dimensions of the art(s) in question. [And yes, I don't know if poetry is an art of many facets or a loose assemblage of arts and crafts. I only know it is marked by an ugly unpleasantness that I make every effort to avoid. And yet I can't avoid it.] Robert Christgau, the music critic from the Village Voice, used to distinguish the writers he liked (song lyricists like Linton Kwesi Johnson) from "print poets." I remember the pinch I felt when I first read that. I've been to a fair number of poetry slams, and have tended to find them good-natured, rather sloshy fun, full of mostly young people with high aspirations, sometimes over-high self-estimations, and what I'd call poor judgment as to their managing their dynamics; and of course (I'm thinking here of Christian Champagne, a terrific poet from the slam scene in New Orleans) there are nearly always one or two who rise above the pack. Put this way, slam poetry seems just like all poetry. (Who hasn't wished that the prosodic dynamics at a bookish poetry reading weren't more lively, and that a fair number of the people there wouldn't wallow so in their own self-inflation?) The best single thing I've read in the past ten years concerning thinking and talking about the arts comes from composer Morton Feldman's _Give My Regards to Eighth Street_. He said that after a fairly long span of his life spent trashing people who didn't live up to his expectations as composers, he chose to admire effort and achievement wherever he found it, however different from his own. Once I understood that, my life changed. My attitude towards poetry (and especially poets) changed. And yet I still slip--it's much too easy! Perhaps the easiest way to slip (besides plain meanness) is the implicit ad hominem, which is eased into place by easy acquiescence about schools, styles, dispositions, and agencies. We can't talk about poetry sensibly without acknowledging its varieties; but loading down those varieties with attitudinal vulgarities about their relative worth (slam, vispo, langpo, modernism, song lyric, rap, folk verse, jingle, haiku, avant garde, print poetry, digipo, etc., etc., etc., etc.) has a tendency to turn every discussion of poetry into a pissing contest. I'm sorry I slipped--honestly, I'm not interested in any poetics whose practitioners don't try to be better than that. Which still leaves the question (and for another day) about how to talk sensibly about a difference like that between David's and my perception of a writer like Patricia Smith. Yrs, Jerry On 6/19/2011 12:10 AM, David Graham wrote: Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. > > >I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. ?But they're usually >worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a while. ?In my view, >"slam" is ripe for some questioning. ?(I've argued the same thing about >"confessional" in the past.) > > >I like McDaniel's poems. ?And he's a strong performer of them. ?But I also think >it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" except when it refers, >well, to a slam: ?an oral competition of poetry recitations, with 3 minute time >limits, numerical scoring by a panel of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. > > > >Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into other areas. >?Some are content to be called "spoken word" or "performance" poets, or similar >terms; other poets fiercely resist any labels and want to be just judged as >poets, period. ?And I think they have a point. > > >For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, that the >term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she hasn't slammed in >many years, has published a number of well regarded print books, earned an >M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so forth. ?And I'd say she's quite >right to feel that the term is used, consciously or not, to marginalize and >minimize her and other poets who came up through the slam ranks. ? > > >Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at slams is a >good question. ?Some would say it's long since been answered; just roll the >tapes and see how good poets like Jack McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as >compared, say, to Charles Wright or James Tate. ?Even more interesting is to >think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are >unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, >and so on. ? > > >Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, bombastic and >slack and simplistic, etc. ?But plenty of all these qualities in the print >world, too. ?Very few slammers are ever going to be as good as Patricia Smith >was in her competitive days, but we don't open each week's *New Yorker* >expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . > > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > > > > >On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > >To:?NewPoetry List >>Sent:?Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM >>Subject:?Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools >> >>I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my >>confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). >>He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful >>with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of >>creepy ironic wit (as are his books). >> >>Jerry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 10:08:22 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <286675.83475.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Narcissistive Personality Disorder: wouldn't that include most, if not all, artist? I love the catagories that shrinks and social workers come up with. Depression: As far as I can tell, damn near everyone is depressed. If the eyes are open, the mind's depressed. Of course, bi-polar & schizophrenia are different, diffiicult, hard to define. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 2:18:18 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? I wonder if you have read Martian Time-Slip by Philip Dick, book I just finished reading. Manfred is autistic, and Jack Bohlen suffers from bouts of schizophrenia. What I am asking is, how accurate are his intuitions on both conditions? On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Patricia F Anderson wrote: Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the >potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting >things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very >interesting research in the genomics of ?autism spectrum and related >disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed >distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a >problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would >end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base >shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the >DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of >action actually happens. Very divisive. > >The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger >Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that >the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and >concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support >would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels >of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. > >Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may >not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood >is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other >countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and >recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. > >This is a great example of the power of language and naming. > >?- Patricia > >On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock > > wrote: > >> Thank you all very much. >> >> I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal >> of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has >> something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but >> Aspergers is suspected. >> >> Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the >> actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the >> family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going >> to ask the director. >> >> I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering >> dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they >> may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it >> feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it >> like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? >> >> Again, thanks to all. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > >-- >Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable >pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com >Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University >of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 >"Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will >give you the right one." Anonymous. >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 10:17:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <450092.27376.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Even more interesting is to think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so on. ? Pound fits the bill. & perhaps Berryman. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, June 19, 2011 1:10:49 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. ?But they're usually worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a while. ?In my view, "slam" is ripe for some questioning. ?(I've argued the same thing about "confessional" in the past.) I like McDaniel's poems. ?And he's a strong performer of them. ?But I also think it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" except when it refers, well, to a slam: ?an oral competition of poetry recitations, with 3 minute time limits, numerical scoring by a panel of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into other areas. ?Some are content to be called "spoken word" or "performance" poets, or similar terms; other poets fiercely resist any labels and want to be just judged as poets, period. ?And I think they have a point. For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, that the term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she hasn't slammed in many years, has published a number of well regarded print books, earned an M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so forth. ?And I'd say she's quite right to feel that the term is used, consciously or not, to marginalize and minimize her and other poets who came up through the slam ranks. ? Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at slams is a good question. ?Some would say it's long since been answered; just roll the tapes and see how good poets like Jack McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as compared, say, to Charles Wright or James Tate. ?Even more interesting is to think about whether there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so on. ? Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, bombastic and slack and simplistic, etc. ?But plenty of all these qualities in the print world, too. ?Very few slammers are ever going to be as good as Patricia Smith was in her competitive days, but we don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste Land," either. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: To:?NewPoetry List >Sent:?Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM >Subject:?Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools > >I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for my >confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was at the time). >He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very measured and thoughtful >with a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and splendid with a kind of >creepy ironic wit (as are his books). > >Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 10:18:16 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:18:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: <286675.83475.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <286675.83475.qm@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think not only autism but most mental illnesses are "spectrum disorders." Depression ranges from a little sad to downright suicidal. Paranoia is the normal wariness of predators and prey gone out of control. Narcissism bears an uncanny resemblance to self-esteem, otherwise considered to be an essential vitamin. The play I'm reviewing includes a character who is either Aspy or just cripplingly shy. The director tells me that he wants to let the audience make their own judgement -- it's like the priest in the play "Guilt." Did he or didn't? Only the altar boy knows for sure. p.s. I know I misspelled Narcisstic. From patriciafanderson at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 10:26:58 2011 From: patriciafanderson at gmail.com (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:26:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anny, this is fascinating! I've read quite a bit of Philip Dick, but had missed this book. Ordering it now. Many thanks for the tip! - Patricia On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I wonder if you have read Martian Time-Slip by Philip Dick, book I just > finished reading. Manfred is autistic, and Jack Bohlen suffers from bouts of > schizophrenia. What I am asking is, how accurate are his intuitions on both > conditions? > > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Patricia F Anderson > wrote: >> >> Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the >> potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting >> things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very >> interesting research in the genomics of ?autism spectrum and related >> disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed >> distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a >> problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would >> end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base >> shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the >> DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of >> action actually happens. Very divisive. >> >> The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger >> Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that >> the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and >> concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support >> would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels >> of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. >> >> Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may >> not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood >> is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other >> countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and >> recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. >> >> This is a great example of the power of language and naming. >> >> ?- Patricia >> >> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock >> wrote: >> > Thank you all very much. >> > >> > I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal >> > of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has >> > something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but >> > Aspergers is suspected. >> > >> > Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the >> > actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the >> > family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going >> > to ask the director. >> > >> > I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering >> > dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they >> > may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it >> > feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it >> > like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? >> > >> > Again, thanks to all. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable >> pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com >> Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University >> of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 >> "Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will >> give you the right one." Anonymous. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 "Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will give you the right one." Anonymous. From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 20 12:19:38 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:19:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? Message-ID: <13054990.1308586779109.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 20 12:15:23 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:15:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <26499696.1308586524422.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> There's some confusion here. Depression and narcissism are common terms for normal feelings. They are also clinical terms. Confusing the two is like confusing a cold with asthma or a charley horse with chronic pain syndrome. Everybody gets the blues sometimes, for good or bad reasons, and everybody is overly full of him or herself sometimes. It's not a question of spectrum or range, but persistence, and persistent depression or narcissism are crippling. My brother, who was clinically depressed until he began antidepressant treatment years ago, put it nicely: "I still get sad about the same things, but it doesn't last six months." When I was in training we called the Psychopathology course "disease of the week," because everybody in class reported all the symptoms of every condition. Fact is, we're humans, and we tend to experience the full range of possibilities. Hearing an occasional benign voice once in a while or imagining something that isn't there by conflating one thing with another is commonplace. Schizophrenia isn't. -----Original Message----- >From: David Weinstock >Sent: Jun 20, 2011 10:18 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > >I think not only autism but most mental illnesses are "spectrum >disorders." Depression ranges from a little sad to downright suicidal. >Paranoia is the normal wariness of predators and prey gone out of >control. Narcissism bears an uncanny resemblance to self-esteem, >otherwise considered to be an essential vitamin. > >The play I'm reviewing includes a character who is either Aspy or just >cripplingly shy. The director tells me that he wants to let the >audience make their own judgement -- it's like the priest in the play >"Guilt." Did he or didn't? Only the altar boy knows for sure. > >p.s. I know I misspelled Narcisstic. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 20 12:32:43 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:32:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" --? Message-ID: <26180210.1308587563744.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I haven't been following this thread at all--this is my first dip into it. The DSM, as I recall, was established to codify insurance billing--each diagnosis has a numerical value for use in forms. It's never been a very good diagnostic tool, and it has become way more influential as such than intended or foreseen. To the extent that a diagnosis travels with a patient (not a good assumption in the US, where different hospitals and doctors don't have access to each other's information about a patient, and even insurance companies aren't supposed to share info--good luck with that) a patient's label gives me an initial hypohesis and if the label appears correct a set of expectations. No matter what they wind up calling it I don't expect to "cure" a narcissistic patient, for instance, and in the unlikely event that the patient continues treatment for any length of time I would probably die of boredom while helping said patient control his or her behavior. But of course that assumes that the clinician will take the time or have the skill--if the label has traveled it will almost certainly stick, and it may do damge. How's that for marginally coherent? -----Original Message----- >From: Patricia F Anderson >Sent: Jun 19, 2011 4:29 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > >Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the >potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting >things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very >interesting research in the genomics of autism spectrum and related >disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed >distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a >problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would >end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base >shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the >DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of >action actually happens. Very divisive. > >The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger >Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that >the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and >concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support >would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels >of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. > >Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may >not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood >is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other >countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and >recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. > >This is a great example of the power of language and naming. > > - Patricia > >On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock > wrote: >> Thank you all very much. >> >> I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal >> of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has >> something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but >> Aspergers is suspected. >> >> Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the >> actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the >> family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going >> to ask the director. >> >> I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering >> dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they >> may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it >> feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it >> like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? >> >> Again, thanks to all. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > >-- >Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable >pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com >Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University >of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 >"Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will >give you the right one." Anonymous. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From david.weinstock at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 12:35:36 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:35:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <26499696.1308586524422.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26499696.1308586524422.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: You're right, of course. And a prescription isn't a diagosis. But anybody with any imagination can get an anti-depressant prescribed for what I'd call subclinical sadness, even for temporary grief. Now that antidepressants have as few side effects as (say) Wellbutrin, doctors are even more willing--what harm can it do, after all? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 20 12:30:48 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:30:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" --? Message-ID: <11448446.1308587448956.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> There's some confusion here. Depression and narcissism are common terms for normal feelings. They are also clinical terms. Confusing the two is like confusing a cold with asthma or a charley horse with chronic pain syndrome. Everybody gets the blues sometimes, for good or bad reasons, and everybody is overly full of him or herself sometimes. It's not a question of spectrum or range, but persistence, and persistent depression or narcissism are crippling. My brother, who was clinically depressed until he began antidepressant treatment years ago, put it nicely: "I still get sad about the same things, but it doesn't last six months." When I was in training we called the Psychopathology course "disease of the week," because everybody in class reported all the symptoms of every condition. Fact is, we're humans, and we tend to experience the full range of possibilities. Hearing an occasional benign voice once in a while or imagining something that isn't there by conflating one thing with another is commonplace. Schizophrenia isn't. -----Original Message----- >From: David Weinstock >Sent: Jun 20, 2011 10:18 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > >I think not only autism but most mental illnesses are "spectrum >disorders." Depression ranges from a little sad to downright suicidal. >Paranoia is the normal wariness of predators and prey gone out of >control. Narcissism bears an uncanny resemblance to self-esteem, >otherwise considered to be an essential vitamin. > >The play I'm reviewing includes a character who is either Aspy or just >cripplingly shy. The director tells me that he wants to let the >audience make their own judgement -- it's like the priest in the play >"Guilt." Did he or didn't? Only the altar boy knows for sure. > >p.s. I know I misspelled Narcisstic. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 12:44:46 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:44:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman (as a "straw woman") included. Either learn about it, or not. But it is horrific to me to read writings about art practices that are PRIMARILY pursued by women of all colors and non-white men only in context of a bunch of white guys. It is like reading David Orr, who only talks in context of the abusive British and American white guy poets of the 50s and 60s. I seriously doubt he knows how to read poetry. Do you want to learn how to read performance? List 10 women who perform poetry. List 10 latino, african american, or asian men who perform poetry in English. List their influences and students. All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 20 12:47:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:47:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Zagajewski=E2=80=99s_Unseen_Hand?= Message-ID: <8CDFD80D7623236-20E4-1AA8C@webmail-d164.sysops.aol.com> http://articles.boston.com/2011-06-19/ae/29677526_1_clare-cavanagh-poems-zagajewski Things felt if not seen In Zagajewski?s poems, time and place are distinct yet universal June 19, 2011|By Michael Brodeur, Globe Staff UNSEEN HAND By Adam Zagajewski Translated by Clare Cavanagh Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 107 pp. $23 Adam Zagajewski?s ?Unseen Hand,? the Polish poet?s latest book to be translated into English, can make you feel more like an intruder than a reader. The collective calm of these poems creates an odd tension: Within his clear, contemplative lines, the indifference of time can always be felt drifting unstoppably by, even as we attempt to scaffold it with history or cage it with memory. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 13:17:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:17:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] some tooting Message-ID: after some silence: http://madhattersreview.com/blog/archives/227 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 13:19:16 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:19:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great, let me know what you think as soon as you have read it. On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Patricia F Anderson < patriciafanderson at gmail.com> wrote: > Anny, this is fascinating! I've read quite a bit of Philip Dick, but > had missed this book. Ordering it now. Many thanks for the tip! > > - Patricia > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > I wonder if you have read Martian Time-Slip by Philip Dick, book I just > > finished reading. Manfred is autistic, and Jack Bohlen suffers from bouts > of > > schizophrenia. What I am asking is, how accurate are his intuitions on > both > > conditions? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Jun 20 13:14:38 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:14:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <450092.27376.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <450092.27376.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DFF7FFE.8060507@louisiana.edu> Once again I have to admit to a clumsiness of address brought on by a casual, loose, tacit assumption that expresses a category error. When I mentioned that McDaniel was "measured," I was using the term not in its common extension of "cautious or undemonstrative," but in the more specialized sense I've maintained for many years--since reading all those New American Poetry people, especially Pound, Olson, Creeley, and Duncan--that all poetry is measured, has its measure, is in fact defined by its measure, and that that measure emerges not from received formalisms, but from close interactions with pulse, line, breath, word, phrase, etc. In other words, measure is the measure of a grasping of one's words that is both phenomenological and analytic, as it inheres in the writing process but also may be submitted to analysis, so that we can talk (as those folks so often did) of Pound's measure, Williams's, Ginsberg's, Zukofsky's, Levertov's. Every poet, every poem has his/her/its measure. So far so good, I think. It's one way to think about the way individual poets discover and unfold patterning in their work. But what I said about McDaniel (basically, I meant that he demonstrates a notable attention to measure in this sense) implied that slam poets don't, and that's patently absurd. Using sentences imposes a measure, and using non-sentences imposes even more noticeable measure. Everything in language--because it is structured and those structures are recursive and shareable--is measured. What Stephen Russell says about slam poets and slam poetry seems to me very accurate, and is a statement not only about their rhetoric (that some performers actually develop "the knack of hiding the quality of their words behind the bravado of their stage presence" while others pay close attention to qualities conventionally associated with good print poetry--those are the ones SR calls "the actual poets") but about their measure. Slam poets are poets too, and the world is full of good and bad ones (and like all kinds of poetry or all kinds of everything--except perhaps bluebirds--the world is fuller of bad than good; it's not something one can cry about, it's a given). I'm less comfortable with the idea of distinguishing "measure" in this sense (and "thought" in the sense I invoked when I said I found McDaniel "thoughtful") from the qualities of exuberance, hyperbole, and passion SR mentions. David Weinstock wrote this morning about "spectrum illnesses" and I think (_pace_ Longinus) that these emotional/tonal matters are spectrum (if not downright spectral) phenomena as well. In other words, for me, the markers of exuberance, passion, hyperbole, and sublimity are kinds of thought (not the absence of thought), and are expressed in kinds of measure. Either way, it's worth noting that both Pound and Berryman were very self-consciously attentive to matters of craft, measure, and rhetoric. Both of them were masterful at a kind of ecstatic measure, though, when they wanted to be, and lots of poets fit into that mix--just think about Whitman, Ginsberg, sometimes HD, Lorca, Neruda, Li Po. And how about the wonderful collaborations (collaboration strikes me as a tricky and interesting problem for considering measure) between Maureen Seaton and Denise Duhamel? Most poets, I'm pretty sure (I'm thinking again of David's spectrum-illness poesis) can access elements of tight control and elements of ecstatic wildness (wild nights, wild nights!), depending, perhaps, on the amount of coffee (or absinthe?) they've ingested that day. Best, Jerry On 6/20/2011 9:17 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Even more interesting is to think about whether there aren't more than > a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, if not thoughtless, at > least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so on. > > Pound fits the bill. & perhaps Berryman. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sun, June 19, 2011 1:10:49 AM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories > > Some thoughts spinning off Jerry's post, but not an argument *with* > Jerry here, with whom I think I mostly agree. > > I understand the usefulness of shorthand critical labels. But they're > usually worth re-examining, especially after they have sunk in for a > while. In my view, "slam" is ripe for some questioning. (I've argued > the same thing about "confessional" in the past.) > > I like McDaniel's poems. And he's a strong performer of them. But I > also think it's probably long past time to retire the term "slam" > except when it refers, well, to a slam: an oral competition of poetry > recitations, with 3 minute time limits, numerical scoring by a panel > of judges, no musical accompaniment, etc. > > Quite a few poets began their careers slamming, and then moved into > other areas. Some are content to be called "spoken word" or > "performance" poets, or similar terms; other poets fiercely resist any > labels and want to be just judged as poets, period. And I think they > have a point. > > For instance, Patricia Smith is just one who has complained, rightly, > that the term is hung around her neck everywhere she goes, though she > hasn't slammed in many years, has published a number of well regarded > print books, earned an M.F.A., now teaches at a university, and so > forth. And I'd say she's quite right to feel that the term is used, > consciously or not, to marginalize and minimize her and other poets > who came up through the slam ranks. > > Whether poets can be measured and thoughtful while also successful at > slams is a good question. Some would say it's long since been > answered; just roll the tapes and see how good poets like Jack > McCarthy or Jeffrey McDaniel can be, as compared, say, to Charles > Wright or James Tate. Even more interesting is to think about whether > there aren't more than a few canonical figures who are unmeasured and, > if not thoughtless, at least exuberant, passionate, hyperbolic, and so > on. > > Certainly at slams and open mics it's routine to hear awful stuff, > bombastic and slack and simplistic, etc. But plenty of all these > qualities in the print world, too. Very few slammers are ever going > to be as good as Patricia Smith was in her competitive days, but we > don't open each week's *New Yorker* expecting to read "The Waste > Land," either. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > >> *To:*NewPoetry List > > >> *Sent:*Fri, June 17, 2011 2:51:52 PM >> *Subject:*Re: [New-Poetry] The Value of a List of of Poetry Schools >> >> I once fell into giving a reading with Jeffrey McDaniels (luckily for >> my confidence I hadn't heard of him and didn't know how good he was >> at the time). He didn't really strike me as a slam poet. He was very >> measured and thoughtful with a fairly quiet but supple range of >> dynamics, and splendid with a kind of creepy ironic wit (as are his >> books). >> >> Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 20 13:40:15 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:40:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" --? In-Reply-To: <11448446.1308587448956.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11448446.1308587448956.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Bipolar Disorder certainly has a spectrum, codified by the (MDmd scale). And depression also has a spectrum, in addition to the consistency or persistence. It can be a question of BOTH spectrum and persistence, something as one who suffers from Bipolar I with rapid cycling (and came out of the closet long ago), I know about all too well. c On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:30 AM, wrote: > There's some confusion here. Depression and narcissism are common terms for normal feelings. They are also clinical terms. Confusing the two is like confusing a cold with asthma or a charley horse with chronic pain syndrome. Everybody gets the blues sometimes, for good or bad reasons, and everybody is overly full of him or herself sometimes. It's not a question of spectrum or range, but persistence, and persistent depression or narcissism are crippling. My brother, who was clinically depressed until he began antidepressant treatment years ago, put it nicely: "I still get sad about the same things, but it doesn't last six months." > > When I was in training we called the Psychopathology course "disease of the week," because everybody in class reported all the symptoms of every condition. Fact is, we're humans, and we tend to experience the full range of possibilities. Hearing an occasional benign voice once in a while or imagining something that isn't there by conflating one thing with another is commonplace. Schizophrenia isn't. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: David Weinstock >>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 10:18 AM >>To: NewPoetry List >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? >> >>I think not only autism but most mental illnesses are "spectrum >>disorders." Depression ranges from a little sad to downright suicidal. >>Paranoia is the normal wariness of predators and prey gone out of >>control. Narcissism bears an uncanny resemblance to self-esteem, >>otherwise considered to be an essential vitamin. >> >>The play I'm reviewing includes a character who is either Aspy or just >>cripplingly shy. The director tells me that he wants to let the >>audience make their own judgement -- it's like the priest in the play >>"Guilt." Did he or didn't? Only the altar boy knows for sure. >> >>p.s. I know I misspelled Narcisstic. >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jun 20 14:06:22 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:06:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <10364714.1308593183016.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Right. I realized as soon as I sent it that I'd oversimplified. -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Lott >Sent: Jun 20, 2011 1:40 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" --? > >Bipolar Disorder certainly has a spectrum, codified by the (MDmd >scale). And depression also has a spectrum, in addition to the >consistency or persistence. It can be a question of BOTH spectrum and >persistence, something as one who suffers from Bipolar I with rapid >cycling (and came out of the closet long ago), I know about all too >well. > >c > >On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:30 AM, wrote: >> There's some confusion here. Depression and narcissism are common terms for normal feelings. They are also clinical terms. Confusing the two is like confusing a cold with asthma or a charley horse with chronic pain syndrome. Everybody gets the blues sometimes, for good or bad reasons, and everybody is overly full of him or herself sometimes. It's not a question of spectrum or range, but persistence, and persistent depression or narcissism are crippling. My brother, who was clinically depressed until he began antidepressant treatment years ago, put it nicely: "I still get sad about the same things, but it doesn't last six months." >> >> When I was in training we called the Psychopathology course "disease of the week," because everybody in class reported all the symptoms of every condition. Fact is, we're humans, and we tend to experience the full range of possibilities. Hearing an occasional benign voice once in a while or imagining something that isn't there by conflating one thing with another is commonplace. Schizophrenia isn't. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: David Weinstock >>>Sent: Jun 20, 2011 10:18 AM >>>To: NewPoetry List >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? >>> >>>I think not only autism but most mental illnesses are "spectrum >>>disorders." Depression ranges from a little sad to downright suicidal. >>>Paranoia is the normal wariness of predators and prey gone out of >>>control. Narcissism bears an uncanny resemblance to self-esteem, >>>otherwise considered to be an essential vitamin. >>> >>>The play I'm reviewing includes a character who is either Aspy or just >>>cripplingly shy. The director tells me that he wants to let the >>>audience make their own judgement -- it's like the priest in the play >>>"Guilt." Did he or didn't? Only the altar boy knows for sure. >>> >>>p.s. I know I misspelled Narcisstic. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Jun 20 14:12:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:12:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I believe I introduced Patricia Smith to this particular thread, and if I used her as a "straw woman," I'm afraid you'll have to explain how, Catherine. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 20, 2011, at 11:44 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming > ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also > the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male > poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly > performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman > (as a "straw woman") included. > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 14:12:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? In-Reply-To: <13054990.1308586779109.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <13054990.1308586779109.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <375352.96196.qm@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have seen it. & yes, there's no doubt that it's serious. Oddly enough, I know of one individual who's managed to put her life together and manage a demanding professional career despite her struggle with schizophrenia. The other individual is not so fortunate. His bi-polar is schizoid affective (I hope I'm using the terms correctly), and his breakdowns follow a predictable but alarming pattern that no current medication seems to remedy. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 12:19:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? See my answer to Dave. Re: bi-polarity and schizophrenia. Not hard to define at all, though deciding what's in play usually requires some time. Schizophrenia doesn't have remissions, bipolarity does. If you've ever seen a full-fledged manic episode or a psychotic break you don't wonder for a moment about whether it's serious. -----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >Sent: Jun 20, 2011 10:08 AM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > > >Narcissistive Personality Disorder: wouldn't that include most, if not all, >artist? I love the catagories that shrinks and social workers come up with. >Depression: As far as I can tell, damn near everyone is depressed. If the eyes >are open, the mind's depressed. > > >Of course, bi-polar & schizophrenia are different, diffiicult, hard to define. > > > > ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 2:18:18 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "Restricted prosody" -- ? > >I wonder if you have read Martian Time-Slip by Philip Dick, book I just finished >reading. Manfred is autistic, and Jack Bohlen suffers from bouts of >schizophrenia. What I am asking is, how accurate are his intuitions on both >conditions? > > > >On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Patricia F Anderson > wrote: > >Yeah, there is a HUGE uproar in the Asperger community about the >>potential drop from the DSM. To say Tony Attwood is upset is putting >>things mildly. There are also researchers working on some very >>interesting research in the genomics of ?autism spectrum and related >>disorders, with initial findings looking as if these are indeed >>distinct conditions. Given the current research trends, this is a >>problematic time to make the proposed change. Chances are they would >>end up having to put it back in the next edition, as the research base >>shifts. There is even talk (which surprised me) of doing away with the >>DSM or creating an alternate and parallel tool if this course of >>action actually happens. Very divisive. >> >>The DSM folks would tell you that dropping the term "Asperger >>Syndrome" does not mean people would not have a diagnosis, but that >>the diagnosis would instead be Autism. The opponents of the change and >>concerned folk would tell you they are worried that benefits & support >>would be cut for people with the high functioning and Asperger levels >>of autism. It's more complicated that that sounds like. >> >>Please note that the DSM only officially applies to the USA, and may >>not be followed (or even respected) in other countries. Tony Attwood >>is from Australia, for example, so you very well might find other >>countries responding to this by developing their own guidelines and >>recommendations, rather than following in the US's footsteps. >> >>This is a great example of the power of language and naming. >> >>?- Patricia >> >>On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:00 PM, David Weinstock >> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you all very much. >>> >>> I'm just back from sitting in on a local theater company's rehearsal >>> of "Body Awareness" by Annie Baker. One of the characters has >>> something wrong with him, and nobody quite knows what to call it, but >>> Aspergers is suspected. >>> >>> Before I attended the rehearsal, I was wondering whether or not the >>> actor's speech was going to reveal the director's opinion of the >>> family's tentative diagnosis. I still can't decide, so I'm just going >>> to ask the director. >>> >>> I note with interest that the people who edit DSM are considering >>> dropping Aspergers as a separate diagnosis. In the same edition they >>> may also drop ?Narcissistive Personality Disorder. I wonder what it >>> feels like to have an orphan diagnosis, ?no longer recognized. Is it >>> like being a Soviet citizen? Or a moderate Republican? >>> >>> Again, thanks to all. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable >>pfa at umich.edu OR patriciafanderson at gmail.com >>Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries, University >>of Michigan, 1135 East Catherine, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 >>"Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will >>give you the right one." Anonymous. >>_______________________________________________ >> >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ellenmiller-mack at comcast.net Mon Jun 20 14:15:24 2011 From: ellenmiller-mack at comcast.net (Ellen Miller-mack) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:15:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] PLEASE TAKE ME OFF THE LIST Message-ID: <678930A044104EB38000DD0D3048E96E@EllenHP> I?ve had enough... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 20 14:19:55 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:19:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Guggenheim Acquires Three Seminal Works by Artist, Philosopher, and Poet Lee Ufan Message-ID: <8CDFD8DCA2BF319-1D40-4CDFA@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=48368 NEW YORK, NY.- The Guggenheim Museum recently acquired three seminal works by artist, philosopher, and poet Lee Ufan. The two sculptures and one painting come into the collection on the eve of this summer's retrospective Lee Ufan: Marking Infinity and are generous gifts of Lisson Gallery, London; Kukje Gallery, Seoul; Blum & Poe, Los Angeles; and The Pace Gallery, New York, in honor of the artist. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 14:32:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <887018.93009.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm unable to find my Nuyorican Poetry anthology. I'd start there to name 10 prominent women who perform poetry, as well as 10 latino, african american, and asian men who perform poetry in English. It's an excellent anthology. It won, I believe, the American Book award. Without my anthology, however, I'm unable to anwer the questions below. ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 12:44:46 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman (as a "straw woman") included. Either learn about it, or not.? But it is horrific to me to read writings about art practices that are PRIMARILY pursued by women of all colors and non-white men only in context of a bunch of white guys. It is like reading David Orr, who only talks in context of the abusive British and American white guy poets of the 50s and 60s.? I seriously doubt he knows how to read poetry. Do you want to learn how to read performance? List 10 women who perform poetry. List 10 latino, african american, or asian men who perform poetry in English. List their influences and students. All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 14:37:21 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:37:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] PLEASE TAKE ME OFF THE LIST In-Reply-To: <678930A044104EB38000DD0D3048E96E@EllenHP> References: <678930A044104EB38000DD0D3048E96E@EllenHP> Message-ID: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --Jeff Newberry On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Ellen Miller-mack < ellenmiller-mack at comcast.net> wrote: > I?ve had enough... > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Jun 20 14:46:09 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:46:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DFF9571.3040007@louisiana.edu> I agree in principle with Catherine Daly's concern here. There certainly are important points to be made about the sociology of the rise of slam poetry--especially that it freed poetry from the page and from some measure of (academic?) constipation by liberating the language, measures, ideas, and emotions of substantial numbers of persons, many of whom were previously debarred from the institutions and agencies of "poetry," to take part in liberatory social rituals grounded in language. I also believe that every liberatory experiment is valuable, and I'm only interested in poetry to the extent that I can feel it participates in a liberatory impulsion. That said, the smaller world of this thread--white (?) guys talking about a kind of poetry they know nothing (?) about--has felt troublesome from the beginning. (One of the problems of elists: you can't see into the eyes of the person talking; you can't fairly evaluate his/her relevant contexts.) I don't know who's white, who's (really) a guy, who's an academic, who has a teaching job, who has an MFA, etc. But I suspect CD is largely correct in her assumptions, if I understand them. I'm an aging (let's not forget that one) white working-class academic male heterosexual of first-generation German and third-generation Irish descent from the rural Northeast. As I said in my first note in this thread, I had a "gut reaction" aversion to slam poetry that I myself (as a poet and theorist) have to discount as trivial. What I have to say about slam poetry absolutely should be understood (and I intended it to be) with that in mind. My subsequent posts have been an effort to unravel unintended consequences of my failure to understand that properly in the first instance. I was trying to puzzle out the terms of what felt like a contradiction (the claim that Jeffrey McDaniel is a "slam poet"), which I in fact knew _wasn't_ a contradiction in the first place. I implied that the (positive) qualities I associated with McDaniel (measure, thoughtfulness, "a fairly quiet but supple range of dynamics, and . . . a kind of creepy ironic wit") distinguished him from slam poets in some significant way. That was just stupid. A moment's reflection on the slams I've participated in and/or sat through would have led me to detach what I had to say about McDaniel from my gut aversion. (There's an interesting distinction: I've participated in slams, but could hardly be called a "slam poet." Why not? What does it take?) But CD rightly wants to draw the matter back to the _sources_ for such gut aversions. Are they racial? gendered? Institutional? These are much more important than my liking for McDaniel. I was tempted to write here "and more important than my theoretical investment in the apparatus of print poetics--i.e., measure, thoughtfulness, fine dynamics, etc."--but for me, this is precisely what's in question. It would have been so much more elevating (for me) if in my initial list of McDaniel's redeeming qualities I'd included "liberatory social rituals grounded in language," but this didn't leap to my mind (even though I believe it's true of McDaniel). The fact is, part of my gut aversion has to do with the _experiential fact_ of social ritual as distinct from the _idea_ of social ritual. The latter strikes me as crucially important as a mark of the ways in which poetry can have a felicitous impact on culture. The former, sadly, is beyond me. I find it nearly impossible to abide poetry readings and slams, large meetings involving large numbers of people I don't know, crowds in general; my stomach just twists and I go half-catatonic. I beg for David Weinstock to demonstrate that my aversion to such stuff exists somewhere in the normal range of a sliding scale running from xenophobia to xenophilia, but I really can't answer that myself (consider the wise saw from _Clerks_: "I hate people but I love crowds"), and I don't feel that I owe the world an apology for my personal psychological spot on this sliding scale. The problem is that, applied to slam, my aversion might seem like some sort of racialist trope. I don't know if CD's response was primarily directed towards me (and that doesn't matter much, in the larger scope of things: what's important is the issue she raises). When I think about such things, my inclination is to convert them into the terms that make the most sense to me--terms I'm comfortable and familiar with, whose nuances I feel I can usefully manipulate to refine my thinking in productive ways. As someone averse to large gatherings (so, now: how sweet, how seductive the elist for me!), the relative significance of slam poetry and the kinds of poetry I _do_ enjoy can only be submitted to an analysis based in poetics: that is, in measure, dynamics, image, rhetoric, concept, etc. I'd be a full-throated liar if I suggested for a moment that I can adequately evaluate the social values inherent in the institutions and agencies of slam poetry, and not just because I'm white, or academic, or male, or not an industry insider. My inadequacies run deeper than that, and if these are somehow connected to a deeper racism, sexism, or classism, I've never been able to discern it; that, of course, doesn't mean it's not there. All that said, and despite my above disclaimers, I'd very much like to hear--distinct from the bygone concerns that raised this thread in the first place--what people who for one reason or another have felt excluded from discussions on this list (perhaps because of race, gender, sexual choice, even poetics) have to say about its dynamics. Perhaps a new thread? Best, Jerry On 6/20/2011 11:44 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming > ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also > the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male > poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly > performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman > (as a "straw woman") included. > > Either learn about it, or not. But it is horrific to me to read > writings about art practices that are PRIMARILY pursued by women of > all colors and non-white men only in context of a bunch of white guys. > > It is like reading David Orr, who only talks in context of the abusive > British and American white guy poets of the 50s and 60s. I seriously > doubt he knows how to read poetry. > > Do you want to learn how to read performance? > > List 10 women who perform poetry. > > List 10 latino, african american, or asian men who perform poetry in English. > > List their influences and students. > > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Jun 20 14:56:57 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:56:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> Let me take the heat off you, David. You introduced Patricia Smith quite positively. I don't like her work, and said so. I believe that's what CD was responding to--Smith became the one black person and one woman in the discussion, and I treated her quite harshly. If I'd been doing that to imply a general claim about her writing as exemplary of a broader field of writing, that certainly would have been a straw (wo)man argument. But I didn't do it to indicate any general disposition to the work of black poets, women poets, or slam poets. That would just be stupid, irresponsible, and vicious. My aversion to her work is quite personal--maybe over-personal. It's based in an attitude towards the way poems are well-made that she presented very clearly in a public demonstration. I found the attitude personally repugnant and said so. Someone who disagrees with me is welcome to do so, but again, I was not trying to use her as a generic example: bad woman, bad African American, bad slam poet, etc. I simply don't like Patricia Smith's poetry, and I don't like it a lot. Jerry On 6/20/2011 1:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > I believe I introduced Patricia Smith to this particular thread, and if I used her as a "straw woman," I'm afraid you'll have to explain how, Catherine. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jun 20, 2011, at 11:44 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > >> I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming >> ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also >> the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male >> poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly >> performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman >> (as a "straw woman") included. >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 14:57:27 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <887018.93009.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <887018.93009.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <619900.92731.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... & I plead simple ignorance ... if simple is the correct word ... ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 2:32:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories I'm unable to find my Nuyorican Poetry anthology. I'd start there to name 10 prominent women who perform poetry, as well as 10 latino, african american, and asian men who perform poetry in English. It's an excellent anthology. It won, I believe, the American Book award. Without my anthology, however, I'm unable to anwer the questions below. ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 12:44:46 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories I have avoided this thread, but I have to point out the alarming ignorance of performance art and poetry in performance here, and also the more profound racism and sexism that's led to only white male poets (many with MFAs and teaching jobs and not particularly performance-oriented practices) and a single African American woman (as a "straw woman") included. Either learn about it, or not.? But it is horrific to me to read writings about art practices that are PRIMARILY pursued by women of all colors and non-white men only in context of a bunch of white guys. It is like reading David Orr, who only talks in context of the abusive British and American white guy poets of the 50s and 60s.? I seriously doubt he knows how to read poetry. Do you want to learn how to read performance? List 10 women who perform poetry. List 10 latino, african american, or asian men who perform poetry in English. List their influences and students. All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 15:51:25 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:51:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Yes. On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Let me take the heat off you, David. You introduced Patricia Smith quite > positively. I don't like her work, and said so. I believe that's what CD was > responding to--Smith became the one black person and one woman in the > discussion, and I treated her quite harshly. Stephen, please don't bother looking up an old NYCentric anthology, either! Jeff earned his BA at Sarah Lawrence, under the tutelage of Tom Lux. Then he got his MFA at George Mason and started reading out in DC. He moved to LA, joined the LA slam team, and then started mentoring it. While Jeff's work participates in most of the really boring attributes of first person lyric narrative as it is confessed (twelve stepping, bad family, etc.), he can also write a free verse poem with acceptable ghost of meter, he has had the rare and I think wonderful experience of performing all over the world, and his local students picked up a lot of domestic surrealism tendencies. The local "performance poets" who studied under Cecelia Woloch before her unfortunate Lux experience picked up a New York School influence. I put Brendan Constantine here. Needless to say, this is LA white performance poetry starting in about 1996. Forget about the Green Mill or Nuyorican. A lot of African-American poetry that the poets themselves *perform* incredibly well comes from Jazz poetry (Langston Hughes, Jayne Cortez, Sonia Sanchez, Amiri Baraka) and the Watts Prophets (with students including Quincy Troupe). Hearing white poets, especially formalists, talk about rap makes my stomach turn, but it is an undeniable influence on a lot of poetry. There's a recent Fence book that uses negro baseball league to get out from under the jazz influence. In any case, for LA, that meant the World Stage as a venue -- Kamau Da?ood, Akilah Oliver. The John Anson Ford (across from the Bowl) will have a 10th? anniversary reading for Flypoet's old series, with Sekou Andrews, Taalam Acey, Thea Monyee. Saul Williams' work is also very visual -- I think that's more than a good typesetter. Of course, you've seen the movie, right? Douglas Kearney's work is also striking on the page and when he performs it. He's not a slam poet. He is just influenced enough by the by and large African American thrust of performance, rather than reading, poetry, to blast everyone out of the water at the MLA reading. Even Anne Carson has always had a strong performative element to her poetry. I remember when Anna Deveare Smith was shelved with poetry. There is that playwright/actor/performance poetry blur. There's the San Francisco group sister spit (still ongoing), which included Daphne Gottleib, Michelle Tea... I'm drawing a big blank here -- but like the Watts Prophets and much later Sister Spit, there are *plenty* of poets who perform together as groups and collaborators. And then there are David Antin, Elanor Antin, Carolee Schneeman, the performance art / poetry in performance blur. or John Giorno, Michael McClure, Lenore Kandel -- the beat influence, McClure's still performing .. with Ray Manzarek. Part of the slam hang up was that it was a game show fun thing like wheel of poets -- there were a few other ones -- probably still are. Open mike nights. Which leads to poets with bands or who perform with bands. I'm just trying to start to make a lot of lists so ya'll can start googling and find some of this work! All best, Catherine Daly From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 15:51:43 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:51:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the Corner Message-ID: Bonnie G Roberts made my day! http://web.redroom.com/publishedwork/fieralingue-poets-corner-international-collection-poems -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 15:55:47 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:55:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: already a correction, when I mean about "Forget about the Green Mill or Nuyorican" or the anthologies -- or Def Poetry Jam -- I don't mean forget them literally, I mean go beyond them in order to find the full variety of poetry in performance. Though I mentioned quite a few people who performed in those venues, I couldn't list them all, and particular, the def poetry wiki article is a nice list. Here's another source for most LA: http://www.graffitiverite.com/GV7PressRelease.html Catherine From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 18:18:24 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:18:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions: Sol: English Writing in Mexico Message-ID: Call for submissions: Sol: English Writing in Mexico--which doesn't mean what you submit has to be about Mexico! We are now accepting submissions for our November issue; the deadline is September 15. Poetry, nonfiction, fiction. Take a look at this thrice-yearly online magazine at *http://www.solliterarymagazine.com/* New Issue forthcoming in July. If you submit, be sure to check out and follow submission specifications in the writers' guidelines. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 18:28:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:28:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <745891.55196.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> some D.C. locals were featured in Def Jam. I'm almost certain that Brian Gilmore was in it. Maybe Rueben Jackson and Joel dias Porter (aka DJ Renegade), but without the anthology in front of me, I can't be certain. ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 3:55:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories already a correction, when I mean about "Forget about the Green Mill or Nuyorican" or the anthologies -- or Def Poetry Jam -- I don't mean forget them literally, I mean go beyond them in order to find the full variety of poetry in performance. Though I mentioned quite a few people who performed in those venues, I couldn't list them all, and particular, the def poetry wiki article is a nice list. Here's another source for most LA: http://www.graffitiverite.com/GV7PressRelease.html Catherine _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 18:41:34 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:41:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <745891.55196.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> <745891.55196.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: again, the wiki list, while incomplete & inaccurate, is a place to start. DJ Spooky also came to mind, and my fondly recollected punk poets Ellyn Maybe, Exene Cervankova, her husband John Doe, people who learned their work was poetry like Mike Watt, Thurston Moore, founder of Soft Skull Press Lee Rinaldi, Lydia Lunch... Henry Rollins a generating writer... I am sort of curious that other than former 2.13.61 and soft skull (etc.) editors, founders, authors, I see DIY skewed or marketed. FYI, I have rolled up the panels for book fairs and academic conferences in geekland, run the reading series that are curated (i.e., inclusive and truly wide ranging). I used to think about it as hijacking one discourse to deliver it to another. But as someone has pointed out, that is a violence. The reason I stopped is I got angrier and angrier. Art Curation is about continual beginning, total appreciation, finding, not competition, more than a survey.... Catherine From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jun 20 18:58:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 18:58:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net><13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu><692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu><4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu><995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CDFDB4B89BB140-870-44C4@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Vachel Lindsay was a performance poet, I hear tell. Performance has a spectrum (or levels, from low affect to loud). And performance came before slam. Performance art predates slam (Laurie Anderson). Hip-hop came before slam, too, but there's never been much 'acapella hip-hop'. (Skipping over the dub poets who labored under reggae's shadow.) Slam is limited to voice & gesture and has more to do with solo theatre (without props) than beat. dubbing and sample. But there are some wannbe hip-hop artists in the slam world for sure. Sekou Sundiata, who died a few years ago, he was well known and regarded before slam hit its stride. He had more of the jazz-influence going. But I think in some ways slam made performance poetry more well known and acceptable to larger numbers of people. (Including more It certainly attracted a lot of good white performance poets into its arena. Patricia Smith vied with Gayle Danley http://www.gayledanley.com/ for several years. Roger Bonair-Agard was a slam champ too. http://www.blueflowerarts.com/booking/roger-bonair-agard and co-founded... louderArts http://www.louderarts.com/index.php/about-louderarts Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Yes. On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: Let me take the heat off you, David. You introduced Patricia Smith quite positively. I don't like her work, and said so. I believe that's what CD was responding to--Smith became the one black person and one woman in the discussion, and I treated her quite harshly. Stephen, please don't bother looking up an old NYCentric anthology, either! Jeff earned his BA at Sarah Lawrence, under the tutelage of Tom Lux. hen he got his MFA at George Mason and started reading out in DC. He oved to LA, joined the LA slam team, and then started mentoring it. hile Jeff's work participates in most of the really boring attributes f first person lyric narrative as it is confessed (twelve stepping, ad family, etc.), he can also write a free verse poem with acceptable host of meter, he has had the rare and I think wonderful experience f performing all over the world, and his local students picked up a ot of domestic surrealism tendencies. The local "performance poets" who studied under Cecelia Woloch before er unfortunate Lux experience picked up a New York School influence. put Brendan Constantine here. Needless to say, this is LA white performance poetry starting in about 996. Forget about the Green Mill or Nuyorican. A lot of African-American poetry that the poets themselves *perform* ncredibly well comes from Jazz poetry (Langston Hughes, Jayne Cortez, onia Sanchez, Amiri Baraka) and the Watts Prophets (with students ncluding Quincy Troupe). Hearing white poets, especially formalists, alk about rap makes my stomach turn, but it is an undeniable nfluence on a lot of poetry. There's a recent Fence book that uses egro baseball league to get out from under the jazz influence. In any case, for LA, that meant the World Stage as a venue -- Kamau a?ood, Akilah Oliver. The John Anson Ford (across from the Bowl) ill have a 10th? anniversary reading for Flypoet's old series, with ekou Andrews, Taalam Acey, Thea Monyee. Saul Williams' work is also very visual -- I think that's more than a ood typesetter. Of course, you've seen the movie, right? Douglas Kearney's work is also striking on the page and when he erforms it. He's not a slam poet. He is just influenced enough by he by and large African American thrust of performance, rather than eading, poetry, to blast everyone out of the water at the MLA eading. Even Anne Carson has always had a strong performative element to her poetry. I remember when Anna Deveare Smith was shelved with poetry. There is hat playwright/actor/performance poetry blur. There's the San Francisco group sister spit (still ongoing), which ncluded Daphne Gottleib, Michelle Tea... I'm drawing a big blank here - but like the Watts Prophets and much later Sister Spit, there are plenty* of poets who perform together as groups and collaborators. And then there are David Antin, Elanor Antin, Carolee Schneeman, the erformance art / poetry in performance blur. or John Giorno, Michael McClure, Lenore Kandel -- the beat influence, cClure's still performing .. with Ray Manzarek. Part of the slam hang up was that it was a game show fun thing like heel of poets -- there were a few other ones -- probably still are. pen mike nights. hich leads to poets with bands or who perform with bands. I'm just trying to start to make a lot of lists so ya'll can start oogling and find some of this work! All best, atherine Daly ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 19:14:56 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:14:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <8CDFDB4B89BB140-870-44C4@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> <13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu> <692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu> <4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu> <995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> <8CDFDB4B89BB140-870-44C4@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: influence of Chautauqua? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chautauqua From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jun 20 19:15:19 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories In-Reply-To: <8CDFDB4B89BB140-870-44C4@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> References: <126aade84d6a4baca34f142b320e2af9.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net><13944.92557.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><36921.54053.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DFBA248.3090208@louisiana.edu><692777.98937.qm@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><098223B9-FB51-4C13-B6BA-C02BE7288556@ripon.edu><4DFE1465.6000609@louisiana.edu><995502.25377.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4DFF97F9.10605@louisiana.edu> <8CDFDB4B89BB140-870-44C4@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <743323.58531.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "Sekou Sundiata, who died a few years ago, he was well known and regarded before slam hit its stride. He had more of the jazz-influence going." ********************************************************************************************************** & the beats ... at its best, a good slam may have been the closest thing to the feel ( sight/sound) of the San Fran scene, tho I only know the little I know (the scene/vibe & all) from film clips. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 20, 2011 6:58:36 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Vachel Lindsay was a performance poet, I hear tell. Performance has a spectrum (or levels, from low affect to loud). And performance came before slam. Performance art predates slam (Laurie Anderson). Hip-hop came before slam, too, but there's never been much 'acapella hip-hop'. (Skipping over the dub poets who labored under reggae's shadow.) Slam is limited to voice & gesture and has more to do with solo theatre (without props) than beat. dubbing and sample. But there are some wannbe hip-hop artists in the slam world for sure. But I think in some ways slam made performance poetry more well known and acceptable to larger numbers of people. (Including more It certainly attracted a lot of good white performance poets into its arena. Patricia Smith vied with Gayle Danley http://www.gayledanley.com/ for several years. Roger Bonair-Agard was a slam champ too. http://www.blueflowerarts.com/booking/roger-bonair-agard and co-founded... louderArts http://www.louderarts.com/index.php/about-louderarts Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Slam and the tyranny of categories Yes. On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Let me take the heat off you, David. You introduced Patricia Smith quite > positively. I don't like her work, and said so. I believe that's what CD was > responding to--Smith became the one black person and one woman in the > discussion, and I treated her quite harshly. Stephen, please don't bother looking up an old NYCentric anthology, either! Jeff earned his BA at Sarah Lawrence, under the tutelage of Tom Lux. Then he got his MFA at George Mason and started reading out in DC. He moved to LA, joined the LA slam team, and then started mentoring it. While Jeff's work participates in most of the really boring attributes of first person lyric narrative as it is confessed (twelve stepping, bad family, etc.), he can also write a free verse poem with acceptable ghost of meter, he has had the rare and I think wonderful experience of performing all over the world, and his local students picked up a lot of domestic surrealism tendencies. The local "performance poets" who studied under Cecelia Woloch before her unfortunate Lux experience picked up a New York School influence. I put Brendan Constantine here. Needless to say, this is LA white performance poetry starting in about 1996. Forget about the Green Mill or Nuyorican. A lot of African-American poetry that the poets themselves *perform* incredibly well comes from Jazz poetry (Langston Hughes, Jayne Cortez, Sonia Sanchez, Amiri Baraka) and the Watts Prophets (with students including Quincy Troupe). Hearing white poets, especially formalists, talk about rap makes my stomach turn, but it is an undeniable influence on a lot of poetry. There's a recent Fence book that uses negro baseball league to get out from under the jazz influence. In any case, for LA, that meant the World Stage as a venue -- Kamau Da?ood, Akilah Oliver. The John Anson Ford (across from the Bowl) will have a 10th? anniversary reading for Flypoet's old series, with Sekou Andrews, Taalam Acey, Thea Monyee. Saul Williams' work is also very visual -- I think that's more than a good typesetter. Of course, you've seen the movie, right? Douglas Kearney's work is also striking on the page and when he performs it. He's not a slam poet. He is just influenced enough by the by and large African American thrust of performance, rather than reading, poetry, to blast everyone out of the water at the MLA reading. Even Anne Carson has always had a strong performative element to her poetry. I remember when Anna Deveare Smith was shelved with poetry. There is that playwright/actor/performance poetry blur. There's the San Francisco group sister spit (still ongoing), which included Daphne Gottleib, Michelle Tea... I'm drawing a big blank here -- but like the Watts Prophets and much later Sister Spit, there are *plenty* of poets who perform together as groups and collaborators. And then there are David Antin, Elanor Antin, Carolee Schneeman, the performance art / poetry in performance blur. or John Giorno, Michael McClure, Lenore Kandel -- the beat influence, McClure's still performing .. with Ray Manzarek. Part of the slam hang up was that it was a game show fun thing like wheel of poets -- there were a few other ones -- probably still are. Open mike nights. Which leads to poets with bands or who perform with bands. I'm just trying to start to make a lot of lists so ya'll can start googling and find some of this work! All best, Catherine Daly _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 05:44:22 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:44:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The contents... Message-ID: "I'm satisfied with just a cottage below, / A little silver and a little gold; / But in that city where the ransomed will shine, / I want a gold one that's silver lined." http://tinfisheditor.blogspot.com/2011/06/contents-of-my-mothers-drawer.html by Susan Schultz -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 12:59:02 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:59:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Italian experimental poets in Ireland Message-ID: ____________________________________ THE "POETHREE" TOUR OF IRELAND June 2011 The Italian experimental poets Luca Artioli, Andrea Garbin, Fabio Barcellandi and their translator Dave Lordan will be reading in venues across Ireland as part of a national tour to promote the book "Poethree : New Italian Voices," published by Edizioni Thauma in 2011. Thursday, 23 June 2011, at 8:00 p.m., Village Hall, Knightsbridge Retirement Village, in Trim, Ireland. Friday 24 June 2011, at 8:00 p.m., in the Summer Writers' Extravaganza of the kitchen at the museum, Galway, Ireland. Saturday, 25 June 2011, at 9:00 p.m., at Castle Bar in Derry, Northern Ireland. Monday, 27 June 2011, at the ? Bh?al Reading Series in Long Valley Pub, Cork, Ireland. 1.) Luca Artioli was born in Mantova in 1976, where he still lives. He was the creator and co-founder of the Confraternita dell' "Uva," a group of 25 writers from Mantova, Modena, and Como. He?s currently a member of the "Movement from the Underground," a literary group for the union of the arts, based in Montichiari (BS). His official website is http://www.lucaartioli.it/ His books are "Fragili Apparenze" (Apparent fragilities), published by TCM Editions, Mantova in 2005; and "Suture" (Sutures), published by Edizioni Fara in 2011. 2.) Fabio Barcellandi was born in Brescia in 1968. He is part of the group of poets and artists that "quickens" the literary meetings at the coffee bar Galeter in Montichiari, where he has performed on numerous occasions, from his tentative beginnings to the latest missives. He is from under the earth. What they say of him is that he walks hand in hand with death, whistling. He has published two collections of poems : "Parole alate" (Winged words), published by Cicorivolta editions 2007; and "Nero, l'inchiostro" (Black Ink), published by Montag editions in 2008. 3.) Andrea Garbin lives and works in the province of Mantova. He has published his poetry as "Il senso della musa" (The sense of the Muse), Aletti 2007; and "Latex," published by Fara in 2009. His short-stories are included in the anthologies "Per natale non esco" (For Christmas I don?t go out), published by TranseuropaLibri 2008) and "Il rumore degli occhi" (The noise of the eyes), published by Edizioni Creativa in 2009. 4.) Dave Lordan's latest collection is "Invitation to a Sacrifice" (Salmon Poetry 2010) which was called by THE IRISH TIMES "an act of cultural resistance, as brilliant on the page as it must surely be in performance." Eigse Riada theatre company produced his first play, "Jo Bangles," at the Mill Theatre, Dundrum in 2010. Forthcoming are "Assassin for Higher" from Wurm Press in November 2011 and his first collection of short stories "Out of My Head" due out from Salmon Publishing in Summer 2012. For additional information, contact Dave Lordan at dlordan at hotmail.com ____________________________________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 10:29:14 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:29:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] El Atlantis by Frank Kuestler Message-ID: http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Kuenstler.php -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 09:24:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Message-ID: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS Published: June 22, 2011 * Twitter * comments (667) * Sign In to E-Mail * Print * Single Page * Reprints * ShareClose * Linkedin * Digg * MySpace * Permalink * One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?Baka malamig doon? were among the few words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It was 1993, and I was 12. Enlarge This Image Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times Enlarge This Image Staying Papers The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. Readers' Comments Share your thoughts. * Post a Comment ? * Read All Comments (667) ? My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and grandmother (Lola). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to him, showing him the green card. ?Peke ba ito?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other people,? he warned. I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve lived the American dream. But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took risks for me. Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. ? My first challenge was the language. Though I learned English in the Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my presence here. The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant sentiments and stereotypes: they don?t want to assimilate, they are a drain on society. They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I have something to contribute. * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6Next Page ? Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 09:42:13 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:42:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. Carol talkingwriting.com On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > **My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant**** By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS** Published: > June 22, 2011 > > - Twitter > - comments (667) > - Sign In to E-Mail > - Print > - Single Page > ** > - Reprints > ** > - Share > Close > - Linkedin > - Digg > - MySpace > - Permalink > - > > > ****** > > One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in > a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?*Baka malamig doon*? were among the few > words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the > Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a > family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was > my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It > was 1993, and I was 12. > Enlarge This Image > Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times > > Enlarge This Image > > *Staying Papers* The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a > fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain > in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. > Readers' Comments > > Share your thoughts. > > > - Post a Comment ? > - Read All Comments (667) ? > > My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of > miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (*Lolo* in > Tagalog) and grandmother (*Lola*). After I arrived in Mountain View, > Calif., in the San Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly > grew to love my new home, family and culture. I discovered a passion for > language, though it was hard to learn the difference between formal English > and American slang. One of my early memories is of a freckled kid in middle > school asking me, ?What?s up?? I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of > other kids laughed. I won the eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words > I couldn?t properly pronounce. (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) > > One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my > driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured > it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. > residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she > whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? > > Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him > sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to > him, showing him the green card. ?*Peke ba ito*?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is > this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked > as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my > mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and > inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was > a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the > card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other > people,? he warned. > > I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an > American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, > I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. > > I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and > college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most > famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve > lived the American dream. > > But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different > kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It > means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really > am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying > them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means > reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And > it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground railroad of > supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took risks for me. > > Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to > lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would > provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been > educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama > administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? > they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. > > There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United > States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries > or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it > turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my > home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America > my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. > > > > *My first challenge* was the language. Though I learned English in the > Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours > at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and > reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of > Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters > enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and > newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my > high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I > wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having > my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my > presence here. > > The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a > year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected > in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited > undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other > services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my > encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant > sentiments and stereotypes: *they don?t want to assimilate, they are a > drain on society. *They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I > have something to contribute. > > - 1 > - 2 > - 3 > - 4 > - 5 > - 6 > > Next Page ? > ** > > Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared > a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded > Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration > reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) > **** > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 09:52:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written a memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He taught himself how?to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of the written word, he becomes a leading poet. ________________________________ From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. Carol talkingwriting.com On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > >My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant >By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS >Published: June 22, 2011 > * Twitter > * comments (667) > * Sign In to E-Mail > * Print > * Single Page > * Reprints > * ShareClose > * Linkedin > * Digg > * MySpace > * Permalink > * >One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in a >cab. She handed me a jacket. ?Baka malamig doon? were among the few words she >said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the Philippines? Ninoy >Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a family friend, I was >introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was my uncle. He held my >hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It was 1993, and I was 12. > >Enlarge This Image >Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times >Enlarge This Image >Staying Papers The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a fake >green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain in the >U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. > >Readers' Comments >Share your thoughts. * Post a Comment ? * Read All Comments (667) ? >My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles >away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and >grandmother (Lola). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San >Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, >family and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to >learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my early >memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? I >replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the >eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. >(The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) > >One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my >driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured it >was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. residency, >she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she whispered. ?Don?t come >back here again.? > >Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him sitting >in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to him, showing >him the green card. ?Peke ba ito?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is this fake??) My >grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked as a security guard, >she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my mother and me >financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and inability to >properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was a proud man, and >I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the card, along with >other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other people,? he warned. > >I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an American. >I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, I would be >rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. > >I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and college >and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people >in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve lived the >American dream. > >But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind >of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means >rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means >keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in >my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, >doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort >of 21st-century underground railroad of supporters, people who took an interest >in my future and took risks for me. > >Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to >lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would provide >a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been educated in >this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama administration has deported >almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? they are speaking out. Their >courage has inspired me. > >There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United >States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or >care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns >out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet >even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my >country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. > >? >My first challenge was the language. Though I learned English in the >Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours at a >time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and reruns of >?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of Green Gables?), >pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters enunciated their words. At >the local library, I read magazines, books and newspapers ? anything to learn >how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my high-school English teacher, introduced me >to journalism. From the moment I wrote my first article for the student paper, I >convinced myself that having my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing >Americans ? validated my presence here. > >The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a year >after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected in part >because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited undocumented >immigrants from attending public school and accessing other services. (A federal >court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my encounter at the D.M.V. in >1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant sentiments and stereotypes: they don?t >want to assimilate, they are a drain on society. They?re not talking about me, I >would tell myself. I have something to contribute. > > * 1 > * 2 > * 3 > * 4 > * 5 > * 6Next Page ? >Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared a >Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded Define >American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration reform. Editor: >Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 09:56:18 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:56:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: <831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Baca's memoir: http://www.amazon.com/Place-Stand-Jimmy-Santiago-Baca/dp/0802139086 It's good stuff, as is his poetry. I'm a Baca fan, but he's a mere Wilshberian, so what would I know? --Jeff Wilshberry On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written a > memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from > an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He > taught himself how to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of > the written word, he becomes a leading poet. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* carol dorf > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose > Antonio Vargas's Green Card > > A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of > my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and > country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have > papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. > Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't > causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning > journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act > would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> >> **My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant**** By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS** Published: >> June 22, 2011 >> >> - Twitter >> - comments (667) >> - Sign In to E-Mail >> - Print >> - Single Page >> ** >> - Reprints >> ** >> - Share >> Close >> - Linkedin >> - Digg >> - MySpace >> - Permalink >> - >> >> >> ****** >> >> One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in >> a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?*Baka malamig doon*? were among the few >> words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the >> Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a >> family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was >> my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It >> was 1993, and I was 12. >> Enlarge This Image >> Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times >> >> Enlarge This Image >> >> *Staying Papers* The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? >> a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to >> remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. >> Readers' Comments >> >> Share your thoughts. >> >> >> - Post a Comment ? >> - Read All Comments (667) ? >> >> My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of >> miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (*Lolo*in Tagalog) and grandmother ( >> *Lola*). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco >> Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family >> and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to >> learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my >> early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? >> I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the >> eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. >> (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) >> >> One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get >> my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I >> figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of >> U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she >> whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? >> >> Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him >> sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to >> him, showing him the green card. ?*Peke ba ito*?? I asked in Tagalog. >> (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he >> worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun >> supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s >> wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? >> separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told >> me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t >> show it to other people,? he warned. >> >> I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an >> American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, >> I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. >> >> I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and >> college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most >> famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve >> lived the American dream. >> >> But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a >> different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being >> found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with >> who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than >> displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It >> means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and >> unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground >> railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took >> risks for me. >> >> Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington >> to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would >> provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been >> educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama >> administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? >> they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. >> >> There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United >> States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries >> or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it >> turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my >> home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America >> my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. >> >> >> >> *My first challenge* was the language. Though I learned English in the >> Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours >> at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and >> reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of >> Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters >> enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and >> newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my >> high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I >> wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having >> my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my >> presence here. >> >> The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only >> a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected >> in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited >> undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other >> services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my >> encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant >> sentiments and stereotypes: *they don?t want to assimilate, they are a >> drain on society. *They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I >> have something to contribute. >> >> - 1 >> - 2 >> - 3 >> - 4 >> - 5 >> - 6 >> >> Next Page ? >> ** >> >> Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and >> shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He >> founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on >> immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop ( >> C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) >> **** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Thu Jun 23 10:02:29 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CDFFC5529FD2D3-988-3A106@webmail-stg-d12.sysops.aol.com> Hey, weren't you in that band The Traveling Wilshberys? -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 9:56 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Baca's memoir: http://www.amazon.com/Place-Stand-Jimmy-Santiago-Baca/dp/0802139086 It's good stuff, as is his poetry. I'm a Baca fan, but he's a mere Wilshberian, so what would I know? --Jeff Wilshberry On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52 AM, stephen russell wrote: Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written a memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He taught himself how to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of the written word, he becomes a leading poet. From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. Carol talkingwriting.com On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell wrote: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS Published: June 22, 2011 Twitter comments (667) Sign In to E-Mail Print Single Page Reprints ShareClose Linkedin Digg MySpace Permalink One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?Baka malamig doon? were among the few words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It was 1993, and I was 12. Enlarge This Image Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times Enlarge This Image Staying Papers The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. Readers' Comments Share your thoughts. Post a Comment ? Read All Comments (667) ? My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and grandmother (Lola). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to him, showing him the green card. ?Peke ba ito?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other people,? he warned. I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve lived the American dream. But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took risks for me. Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. My first challenge was the language. Though I learned English in the Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my presence here. The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant sentiments and stereotypes: they don?t want to assimilate, they are a drain on society. They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I have something to contribute. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page ? Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:11:47 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:11:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: <8CDFFC5529FD2D3-988-3A106@webmail-stg-d12.sysops.aol.com> References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CDFFC5529FD2D3-988-3A106@webmail-stg-d12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I am one of the Traveling Wilshberrys. All of our songs don't use any songwriting techniques that haven't been in use since the Renaissance. --Wilbur Wilshberry On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM, wrote: > Hey, weren't you in that band The Traveling Wilshberys? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 9:56 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio > Vargas's Green Card > > Baca's memoir: > http://www.amazon.com/Place-Stand-Jimmy-Santiago-Baca/dp/0802139086 > > It's good stuff, as is his poetry. I'm a Baca fan, but he's a mere > Wilshberian, so what would I know? > > --Jeff Wilshberry > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written >> a memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from >> an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He >> taught himself how to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of >> the written word, he becomes a leading poet. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* carol dorf >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose >> Antonio Vargas's Green Card >> >> A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of >> my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and >> country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have >> papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. >> Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't >> causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning >> journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act >> would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. >> Carol >> talkingwriting.com >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> **My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant**** By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS** Published: >>> June 22, 2011 >>> >>> - Twitter >>> - comments (667) >>> - Sign In to E-Mail >>> - Print >>> - Single Page >>> ** >>> - Reprints >>> ** >>> - Share >>> Close >>> - Linkedin >>> - Digg >>> - MySpace >>> - Permalink >>> - >>> >>> >>> ****** >>> One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me >>> in a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?*Baka malamig doon*? were among the >>> few words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the >>> Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a >>> family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was >>> my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It >>> was 1993, and I was 12. >>> Enlarge This Image >>> Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times >>> Enlarge This Image >>> *Staying Papers* The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years >>> ? a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to >>> remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. >>> Readers' Comments >>> >>> Share your thoughts. >>> >>> >>> - Post a Comment ? >>> - Read All Comments (667) ? >>> >>> My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of >>> miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (*Lolo*in Tagalog) and grandmother ( >>> *Lola*). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco >>> Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family >>> and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to >>> learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my >>> early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? >>> I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the >>> eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. >>> (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) >>> One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get >>> my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I >>> figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of >>> U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she >>> whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? >>> Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him >>> sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to >>> him, showing him the green card. ?*Peke ba ito*?? I asked in Tagalog. >>> (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he >>> worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun >>> supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s >>> wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? >>> separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told >>> me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t >>> show it to other people,? he warned. >>> I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an >>> American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, >>> I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. >>> I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and >>> college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most >>> famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve >>> lived the American dream. >>> But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a >>> different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being >>> found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with >>> who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than >>> displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It >>> means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and >>> unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground >>> railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took >>> risks for me. >>> Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington >>> to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would >>> provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been >>> educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama >>> administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? >>> they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. >>> There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United >>> States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries >>> or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it >>> turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my >>> home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America >>> my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. >>> >>> *My first challenge* was the language. Though I learned English in the >>> Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours >>> at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and >>> reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of >>> Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters >>> enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and >>> newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my >>> high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I >>> wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having >>> my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my >>> presence here. >>> The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only >>> a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected >>> in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited >>> undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other >>> services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my >>> encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant >>> sentiments and stereotypes: *they don?t want to assimilate, they are a >>> drain on society. *They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I >>> have something to contribute. >>> >>> - 1 >>> - 2 >>> - 3 >>> - 4 >>> - 5 >>> - 6 >>> >>> Next Page ? >>> ** >>> Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and >>> shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He >>> founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on >>> immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop ( >>> C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) >>> **** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Thu Jun 23 10:17:11 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card In-Reply-To: References: <716456.29480.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><831928.26706.qm@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CDFFC5529FD2D3-988-3A106@webmail-stg-d12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CDFFC760431065-988-3A2DF@webmail-stg-d12.sysops.aol.com> Tell Slim, Lucky and Harpo I said howdy. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 10:12 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card I am one of the Traveling Wilshberrys. All of our songs don't use any songwriting techniques that haven't been in use since the Renaissance. --Wilbur Wilshberry On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM, wrote: Hey, weren't you in that band The Traveling Wilshberys? -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 9:56 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Baca's memoir: http://www.amazon.com/Place-Stand-Jimmy-Santiago-Baca/dp/0802139086 It's good stuff, as is his poetry. I'm a Baca fan, but he's a mere Wilshberian, so what would I know? --Jeff Wilshberry On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52 AM, stephen russell wrote: Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written a memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He taught himself how to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of the written word, he becomes a leading poet. From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. Carol talkingwriting.com On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell wrote: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS Published: June 22, 2011 Twitter comments (667) Sign In to E-Mail Print Single Page Reprints ShareClose Linkedin Digg MySpace Permalink One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?Baka malamig doon? were among the few words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It was 1993, and I was 12. Enlarge This Image Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times Enlarge This Image Staying Papers The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. Readers' Comments Share your thoughts. Post a Comment ? Read All Comments (667) ? My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and grandmother (Lola). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to him, showing him the green card. ?Peke ba ito?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other people,? he warned. I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve lived the American dream. But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took risks for me. Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. My first challenge was the language. Though I learned English in the Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my presence here. The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant sentiments and stereotypes: they don?t want to assimilate, they are a drain on society. They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I have something to contribute. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page ? Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 23 11:53:39 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:53:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Raworth's Breakfast Comix Message-ID: Is anyone familiar with Tom Raworth's "Breakfast Comix"? First I've heard of it is on today's entry in Tom Clark's ever-wonderful blog. Hilarious. Scroll down on this page for the illustration: http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/stevie-smith-drugs-made-pauline-vague.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj at umich.edu Thu Jun 23 12:02:23 2011 From: lattaj at umich.edu (John Latta) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Raworth's Breakfast Comix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Raworth's "page" is here: http://tomraworth.com/ A hoard of terrific stuff. More comix under "Doodles." Excellent photographs and brilliant musical selections in podcast form. Look under "Notes / News": http://tomraworth.com/notes/ JL On Thu, 23 Jun 2011, David Graham wrote: > Is anyone familiar with Tom Raworth's "Breakfast Comix"? First I've heard of it is on today's entry in Tom Clark's ever-wonderful blog. > > Hilarious. Scroll down on this page for the illustration: > > http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/stevie-smith-drugs-made-pauline-vague.html > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 23 12:12:17 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:12:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Raworth's Breakfast Comix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403CF683-5115-4C7E-B456-41F18D157AAE@ripon.edu> Oh, excellent! Thank you very much. My favorite Breakfast Comix so far: http://tomraworth.com/break5.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 23, 2011, at 11:02 AM, John Latta wrote: > Raworth's "page" is here: > > http://tomraworth.com/ > > A hoard of terrific stuff. More comix under "Doodles." Excellent photographs and brilliant musical selections in podcast form. Look under "Notes / News": > > http://tomraworth.com/notes/ > > JL > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2011, David Graham wrote: > >> Is anyone familiar with Tom Raworth's "Breakfast Comix"? First I've heard of it is on today's entry in Tom Clark's ever-wonderful blog. >> >> Hilarious. Scroll down on this page for the illustration: >> >> http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/stevie-smith-drugs-made-pauline-vague.html >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 23 13:57:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:57:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Message-ID: <61a7c54b14e14e7d9a78750be11a19b1.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : almaginnes at aol.com[mailto:almaginnes at aol.com] Sent : 6/23/2011 10:02:29 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist ,Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Hey, weren't you in that band The Traveling Wilshberys? -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 9:56 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card Baca's memoir: http://www.amazon.com/Place-Stand-Jimmy-Santiago-Baca/dp/0802139086 It's good stuff, as is his poetry. I'm a Baca fan, but he's a mere Wilshberian, so what would I know? --Jeff Wilshberry . Almost nothing if you don't know after I've said it over a hundred times that there are many good Wilshberian poets. BUT there are also many good non-Wilshberian poets--undocumented poets, that is. --Bob On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52 AM, stephen russell wrote: Another great story: The poet Jimmy Santiago Baca. If he hasn't written a memior, he should. I'll check. His writing and poetry is often spoken from an immigrant (sometimes without papers) point of view. Baca is amazing. He taught himself how to read and write while incarcerated. & with the power of the written word, he becomes a leading poet. From: carol dorf To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 9:42:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize winning journalist , Jose Antonio Vargas's Green Card A great story -- I see this kind of thing at an earlier stage with some of my students; many wonderful people and clearly an asset to our school (and country) in this no-man's land of being undocumented. They don't have papers, but also don't belong in the countries they were born in anymore. Sometimes in a family (like Vargas') some members have papers and some don't causing all kinds of ruptures. Not all of them would become award winning journalists, but most would end up doing reasonable work. The dream act would benefit both these young people and the country as a whole. Carol talkingwriting.com On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, stephen russell wrote: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant By JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS Published: June 22, 2011 Twitter comments (667) Sign In to E-Mail Print Single Page Reprints ShareClose Linkedin Digg MySpace Permalink One August morning nearly two decades ago, my mother woke me and put me in a cab. She handed me a jacket. ?Baka malamig doon? were among the few words she said. (?It might be cold there.?) When I arrived at the Philippines? Ninoy Aquino International Airport with her, my aunt and a family friend, I was introduced to a man I?d never seen. They told me he was my uncle. He held my hand as I boarded an airplane for the first time. It was 1993, and I was 12. Enlarge This Image Ryan Pfluger for The New York Times Enlarge This Image Staying Papers The documentation that Vargas obtained over the years ? a fake green card, a fake passport, a driver?s license ? allowed him to remain in the U.S. In Oregon, a friend provided a mailing address. Readers' Comments Share your thoughts. Post a Comment ? Read All Comments (667) ? My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles away to live with her parents in America ? my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and grandmother (Lola). After I arrived in Mountain View, Calif., in the San Francisco Bay Area, I entered sixth grade and quickly grew to love my new home, family and culture. I discovered a passion for language, though it was hard to learn the difference between formal English and American slang. One of my early memories is of a freckled kid in middle school asking me, ?What?s up?? I replied, ?The sky,? and he and a couple of other kids laughed. I won the eighth-grade spelling bee by memorizing words I couldn?t properly pronounce. (The winning word was ?indefatigable.?) One day when I was 16, I rode my bike to the nearby D.M.V. office to get my driver?s permit. Some of my friends already had their licenses, so I figured it was time. But when I handed the clerk my green card as proof of U.S. residency, she flipped it around, examining it. ?This is fake,? she whispered. ?Don?t come back here again.? Confused and scared, I pedaled home and confronted Lolo. I remember him sitting in the garage, cutting coupons. I dropped my bike and ran over to him, showing him the green card. ?Peke ba ito?? I asked in Tagalog. (?Is this fake??) My grandparents were naturalized American citizens ? he worked as a security guard, she as a food server ? and they had begun supporting my mother and me financially when I was 3, after my father?s wandering eye and inability to properly provide for us led to my parents? separation. Lolo was a proud man, and I saw the shame on his face as he told me he purchased the card, along with other fake documents, for me. ?Don?t show it to other people,? he warned. I decided then that I could never give anyone reason to doubt I was an American. I convinced myself that if I worked enough, if I achieved enough, I would be rewarded with citizenship. I felt I could earn it. I?ve tried. Over the past 14 years, I?ve graduated from high school and college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people in the country. On the surface, I?ve created a good life. I?ve lived the American dream. But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don?t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. And it has meant relying on a sort of 21st-century underground railroad of supporters, people who took an interest in my future and took risks for me. Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to lobby for the Dream Act, a nearly decade-old immigration bill that would provide a path to legal permanent residency for young people who have been educated in this country. At the risk of deportation ? the Obama administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years ? they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. We?re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my country doesn?t think of me as one of its own. My first challenge was the language. Though I learned English in the Philippines, I wanted to lose my accent. During high school, I spent hours at a time watching television (especially ?Frasier,? ?Home Improvement? and reruns of ?The Golden Girls?) and movies (from ?Goodfellas? to ?Anne of Green Gables?), pausing the VHS to try to copy how various characters enunciated their words. At the local library, I read magazines, books and newspapers ? anything to learn how to write better. Kathy Dewar, my high-school English teacher, introduced me to journalism. From the moment I wrote my first article for the student paper, I convinced myself that having my name in print ? writing in English, interviewing Americans ? validated my presence here. The debates over ?illegal aliens? intensified my anxieties. In 1994, only a year after my flight from the Philippines, Gov. Pete Wilson was re-elected in part because of his support for Proposition 187, which prohibited undocumented immigrants from attending public school and accessing other services. (A federal court later found the law unconstitutional.) After my encounter at the D.M.V. in 1997, I grew more aware of anti-immigrant sentiments and stereotypes: they don?t want to assimilate, they are a drain on society. They?re not talking about me, I would tell myself. I have something to contribute. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page ? Jose Antonio Vargas is a former reporter for The Washington Post and shared a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Virginia Tech shootings. He founded Define American, which seeks to change the conversation on immigration reform. Editor: Chris Suellentrop (C.Suellentrop-MagGroup at nytimes.com) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 14:57:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:57:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The great creator becomes the great eraser. Message-ID: Aaron Belz on the new technologies: http://longnow.org/essays/written-wind/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 15:01:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:01:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The great creator becomes the great eraser. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I was mislead, please read: Written by Stewart Brand for Civilization ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anny Ballardini Date: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:57 PM Subject: The great creator becomes the great eraser. To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> Aaron Belz on the new technologies: http://longnow.org/essays/written-wind/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 16:15:01 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Heed Warning Message-ID: <841146.24594.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> OpEdNews - Article: Heed the Warning Signs; America is Edging Ever Closer to a Societal Implosion www.opednews.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 09:20:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 06:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <11093.47909.qm@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Any good?Manifestoes out there?? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a misinformed?phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's?the manifesto? Man up ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jun 24 13:31:51 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:31:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <2777818.1308936711659.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 14:45:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <2777818.1308936711659.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2777818.1308936711659.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <704743.57017.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the sound ... the fury -- www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/201 ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 1:31:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto I'm confused. You mean cargo manifest-o or ovious-o? -----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >Sent: Jun 24, 2011 9:20 AM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > >Any good?Manifestoes out there?? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a >misinformed?phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking > >a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's?the manifesto? >Man up ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 15:12:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <704743.57017.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <2777818.1308936711659.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <704743.57017.qm@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <742617.84629.qm@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Making It Sweet Again: On Manifestos by Olson, O'Hara, and Bernstein ? by Cort Day Poetry, like any art, must renew itself continually. Charles Olson?s manifesto "Projective/Verse", published in 1950, describes poetry?s need to recover the energy of its sources from the exhausted (in his view) formal practice of Eliot and the New Critics. Projective verse, a.k.a. "composition by field" and "objectism," sees the poem not as words in lines upon a page, but as a field of energy-charged objects representing the poem?s psychic content in a state of immediacy, before laziness and habit have conspired to turn it into mere verse. Olson exhorts poets to attend to language with their ears, to compose according to the measure of their breathing (spiritus), to work with the "elements and minims of language...to engage speech where it is least careless?and least logical," and so to fix the pulse of energy before it reaches the stasis of conventional form. In the projective act, the poet makes of sound-objects (syllables, words) a projection that, if the act be undertaken with the proper seriousness, and without the interfering lyric ego, and in the humble understanding that the poet is himself a mere object among material objects, "may take its place alongside the things of nature." In making the case for syllables as the atoms of poetry, Olson briefly mentions the connotative resonance of syllables within the language, pointing out that "?Is? comes from the Aryan root, as, to breathe," among other examples. He also refers to Hart Crane?s "attempt to get back to word as handle." Still, it is worth noting that Olson?s project doesn?t develop a distinction between the connotative resonance of language (is = as) and its denotative function, in which sound-objects denote physical objects, the tables and ships and quasars of the world. Whereas Olson?s essay wants nothing more than to be a manifesto, Frank O?Hara?s "Personism: A Manifesto," written in 1959, takes a more complex stance. While refusing, in spite of its title, to stand in direct opposition to any poetic orthodoxy, it nonetheless blithely informs us that it "may be the death of literature as we know it." But this claim is suspect, for it follows in the wake of (for example): "Personism has nothing to do with philosophy, it?s all art. It does not have to do with personality or intimacy, far from it! But to give you a vague idea, one of its minimal aspects is to address itself to one person (other than the poet himself), thus evoking overtones of love without destroying love?s life-giving vulgarity, and sustaining the poet?s feelings toward the poem while preventing love from distracting him into feeling about the person?.It was founded by me after lunch with LeRoi Jones..." It?s less useful to talk about "Personism" as a description of poetic methodology than as a demonstration of a mode of poetic discourse. As a method, Personism stipulates only that the poem be written for the person who is the object of the poet?s affections, possibly in lieu of a phone call. (It does not stipulate that the poem be delivered to the person.) As discourse, it is endlessly protean. And self-aware. And ironic. The word "indeterminate" might also apply. To construct a manifesto out of the materials of a love letter is plainly a tongue-in-cheek undertaking. But O?Hara?s description of his intent (in the passage above) has an undeniable ring of truth. And while the tone of the language clearly evokes a personality and a sense of intimacy, it is not hard to detect in it something of the ad-man?s descant. It feels wonderfully useless, to me, to try to compare O?Hara?s manifesto to Olson?s, because on almost every point of comparison (say, seriousness), O?Hara could be said to break two ways. The notable exception comes in O?Hara?s statement that "You just go on your nerve," which shares much with Olson?s insistence on staying true to the content of the poem. While Personism threatens the end of literature but is too happily preoccupied to do anything about it, Charles Bernstein?s "Semblance," published in 1980, has both motive and opportunity: "So not to have the work resolve at the level of the "field" if this is to mean a uniplanar surface within which the poem operates. Structure that can?t be separated from decisions made within it, constantly poking through the expected parameters. Rather than having a single form or shape or idea of the work pop out as you read, the structure itself is pulled into a moebius-like twisting momentum. In the process, the language takes on a centrifugal force that seems to trip it out of the poem, turn it out from itself, exteriorizing it. Textures, vocabularies, discourses, constructivist modes of radically different character are not integrated into a field as part of a predetermined planar architecture; the gaps and jumps compose a space with shifting parameters, types and styles of discourse constantly crisscrossing, interacting, creating new gels." One could spend a good deal of time parsing the ways in which "Semblance" speaks to Olson?s essay, cataloging what it saves and what it rejects. But the passage above makes clear what is, I think, the key phenomenological difference between them: in Olson?s conception, the projection was of experience onto a two-dimensional field; in Bernstein's, the poem-object is emphatically three-dimensional. And as such, it is virtual. Bernstein defines virtuality in terms of language qua language (or, yes, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E), by which he means, among other things, that language has taken another step away from a denotative basis (chair = chair) and toward a connotative one (the multiple referential vectors passing in all directions through "chair" will encounter "cathedral" and "sedation" long before they encounter a real chair). It is illuminating that in defining the leap he has taken, Bernstein draws heavily upon the vocabularies of theory and technology; it does seem, in fact, that the one dimension he has added to Olson?s two dimensions has a preponderance of theory in it. (It is in this preponderance of theory that one could find, were one so inclined, the motive and opportunity mentioned above. One might also see evidence of the lengths that poetry will go to, using poets as fodder, as hosts, to graft itself into human institutions and thus ensure its own survival.) Perhaps it is not entirely new to poetry that it should succeed by resonating in a depth of field beyond what is available on the page. On the other hand, it is impossible to deny the prescience of a work on virtuality that was written when Pong was a state-of-the-art video game. And, in any case, the three manifestos discussed here, while implicitly or explicitly opposed to each other in many ways, do show, from one perspective at least, the progression from the twentieth to the twenty-first century in American poetry. Olson, building upon the work of the Objectivists, affirms the primacy of the kinetic field. O?Hara, speaking for the New York poets and for Jack Spicer in the west, brings the multivalent, proto-ironic voice that prefigures much of today?s post-modern work. In Bernstein?s work there is a consciousness of self-reflectivity, of hyper-reality, of language-permeation, that is absolutely germane to our moment. Poets writing now have a choice between these (and other!) models as they try not only to follow John Ashbery?s cryptic admonition to "Make it sweet again!" but to answer the vexing question, what is "sweet?" ________________________________ Donald Hall CD $12.00 | More Info View All Store Items Shop & Support Poets.org Share Digg StumbleUpon Facebook E-mail to Friend ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 2:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto the sound ... the fury -- www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/201 ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 1:31:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto I'm confused. You mean cargo manifest-o or ovious-o? -----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >Sent: Jun 24, 2011 9:20 AM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > >Any good?Manifestoes out there?? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a >misinformed?phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking > >a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's?the manifesto? >Man up ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jun 24 15:25:55 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:25:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <29770534.1308943556059.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 24 15:46:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:46:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <6a513d63271b46b380a9fe2bb0da2c5c.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Any good Manifestoes out there? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a misinformed phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's the manifesto? Man up ... Gosh, Stephen, where'd you get my name from? Me, a manifesto-spouter?! My only manisfesto would tell poets and poetry critics to stop acting as though Wilshberia were the only location on the map of contemporary American poetry. I think I've already made this known, in other ways than a manifesto. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 24 15:49:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:49:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <7c42978770774fc6bcbadc3506a497fe.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Olson's "field" isn't two-dimensional. On the other hand, how is it more "three-dimensional" than any other poet's? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 15:55:10 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <6a513d63271b46b380a9fe2bb0da2c5c.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <6a513d63271b46b380a9fe2bb0da2c5c.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <85289.37944.qm@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?I think I've already made this known, in other ways than a manifesto. true. But you've been informal. A manifesto is formal, combative, and sometimes fun. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 3:46:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Any good?Manifestoes out there?? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a misinformed?phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's?the manifesto? Man up ... Gosh, Stephen, where'd you get my name from?? Me, a manifesto-spouter?! My only manisfesto would tell poets and poetry critics to stop acting as though Wilshberia were the only location on the map of contemporary American poetry.? I think I've already made this known, in other ways than a manifesto. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Jun 24 16:16:18 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:16:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <29770534.1308943556059.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <29770534.1308943556059.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E04F092.2040009@louisiana.edu> I really don't want to get myself in over my head on this question (one step and gone forever), but I'd say that Olson may well have had (more or less) technical conceptions of "field"from mathematics or physics in mind. What I know about that stuff I've already exhausted just by bringing it up, but it's worth a thought. (The linguist Kenneth Pike tried to develop a new rhetorical theory based on wave, particle, and field perspectives on language.) Maybe even more than with photons and electrons, any application of these technical terminologies to language would seem to run into the problem of where such things as a "field" might emerge. Are they textual phenomena somehow, or purely psychological events (also, somehow)? In any case, to conceive of poetic (or linguistic) effects with reference to particles, waves, and fields (or objects and shapes of any kind) feels like an instance of what Martin Jay called "ocularcentrism"--the tendency to represent our mental processes in dead metaphors derived from operating on objects in the visual arena. Like I said, over my head. Darling Frank O'Hara, as always, strikes me as having more fun than the rest of the crew--especially with the idea of "manifesto." Best, Jerry On 6/24/2011 2:25 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Olson's "field" isn't two-dimensional. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: Jun 24, 2011 3:12 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > Making It Sweet Again: On Manifestos by Olson, O'Hara, and Bernstein > by Cort Day > > Poetry, like any art, must renew itself continually. Charles Olson > ?s manifesto "Projective/Verse", > published in 1950, describes poetry?s need to recover the energy > of its sources from the exhausted (in his view) formal practice of > Eliot and the New Critics. Projective verse, a.k.a. "composition > by field" and "objectism," sees the poem not as words in lines > upon a page, but as a field of energy-charged objects representing > the poem?s psychic content in a state of immediacy, before > laziness and habit have conspired to turn it into mere verse. > Olson exhorts poets to attend to language with their ears, to > compose according to the measure of their breathing (/spiritus/), > to work with the "elements and minims of language...to engage > speech where it is least careless?and least logical," and so to > fix the pulse of energy before it reaches the stasis of > conventional form. > > In the projective act, the poet makes of sound-objects (syllables, > words) a projection that, if the act be undertaken with the proper > seriousness, and without the interfering lyric ego, and in the > humble understanding that the poet is himself a mere object among > material objects, "may take its place alongside the things of > nature." In making the case for syllables as the atoms of poetry, > Olson briefly mentions the connotative resonance of syllables > within the language, pointing out that "?Is? comes from the Aryan > root, /as/, to breathe," among other examples. He also refers to > Hart Crane ?s "attempt to get back to > word as handle." Still, it is worth noting that Olson?s project > doesn?t develop a distinction between the connotative resonance of > language (is = /as/) and its denotative function, in which > sound-objects denote physical objects, the tables and ships and > quasars of the world. > > Whereas Olson?s essay wants nothing more than to be a manifesto, > Frank O?Hara ?s "Personism: A > Manifesto," written in 1959, takes a more complex stance. While > refusing, in spite of its title, to stand in direct opposition to > any poetic orthodoxy, it nonetheless blithely informs us that it > "may be the death of literature as we know it." But this claim is > suspect, for it follows in the wake of (for example): > > "Personism has nothing to do with philosophy, it?s all art. It > does not have to do with personality or intimacy, far from it! > But to give you a vague idea, one of its minimal aspects is to > address itself to one person (other than the poet himself), > thus evoking overtones of love without destroying love?s > life-giving vulgarity, and sustaining the poet?s feelings > toward the poem while preventing love from distracting him > into feeling about the person?.It was founded by me after > lunch with LeRoi Jones ..." > > It?s less useful to talk about "Personism" as a description of > poetic methodology than as a demonstration of a mode of poetic > discourse. As a method, Personism stipulates only that the poem be > written for the person who is the object of the poet?s affections, > possibly in lieu of a phone call. (It does not stipulate that the > poem be delivered to the person.) As discourse, it is endlessly > protean. And self-aware. And ironic. The word "indeterminate" > might also apply. To construct a manifesto out of the materials of > a love letter is plainly a tongue-in-cheek undertaking. But > O?Hara?s description of his intent (in the passage above) has an > undeniable ring of truth. And while the tone of the language > clearly evokes a personality and a sense of intimacy, it is not > hard to detect in it something of the ad-man?s descant. It feels > wonderfully useless, to me, to try to compare O?Hara?s manifesto > to Olson?s, because on almost every point of comparison (say, > seriousness), O?Hara could be said to break two ways. The notable > exception comes in O?Hara?s statement that "You just go on your > nerve," which shares much with Olson?s insistence on staying true > to the content of the poem. > > While Personism threatens the end of literature but is too happily > preoccupied to do anything about it, Charles Bernstein > ?s "Semblance," published in 1980, has > both motive and opportunity: > > "So not to have the work resolve at the level of the "field" > if this is to mean a uniplanar surface within which the poem > operates. Structure that can?t be separated from decisions > made within it, constantly poking through the expected > parameters. Rather than having a single form or shape or idea > of the work pop out as you read, the structure itself is > pulled into a moebius-like twisting momentum. In the process, > the language takes on a centrifugal force that seems to trip > it out of the poem, turn it out from itself, exteriorizing it. > Textures, vocabularies, discourses, constructivist modes of > radically different character are not integrated into a field > as part of a predetermined planar architecture; the gaps and > jumps compose a space with shifting parameters, types and > styles of discourse constantly crisscrossing, interacting, > creating new gels." > > One could spend a good deal of time parsing the ways in which > "Semblance" speaks to Olson?s essay, cataloging what it saves and > what it rejects. But the passage above makes clear what is, I > think, the key phenomenological difference between them: in > Olson?s conception, the projection was of experience onto a > two-dimensional field; in Bernstein's, the poem-object is > emphatically three-dimensional. And as such, it is /virtual/. > Bernstein defines virtuality in terms of language /qua/ language > (or, yes, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E), by which he means, among other things, > that language has taken another step away from a denotative basis > (/chair/ = chair) and toward a connotative one (the multiple > referential vectors passing in all directions through "chair" will > encounter "cathedral" and "sedation" long before they encounter a > real chair). It is illuminating that in defining the leap he has > taken, Bernstein draws heavily upon the vocabularies of theory and > technology; it does seem, in fact, that the one dimension he has > added to Olson?s two dimensions has a preponderance of theory in > it. (It is in this preponderance of theory that one could find, > were one so inclined, the motive and opportunity mentioned above. > One might also see evidence of the lengths that poetry will go to, > using poets as fodder, as hosts, to graft itself into human > institutions and thus ensure its own survival.) > > Perhaps it is not entirely new to poetry that it should succeed by > resonating in a depth of field beyond what is available on the > page. On the other hand, it is impossible to deny the prescience > of a work on virtuality that was written when Pong was a > state-of-the-art video game. And, in any case, the three > manifestos discussed here, while implicitly or explicitly opposed > to each other in many ways, do show, from one perspective at > least, the progression from the twentieth to the twenty-first > century in American poetry. Olson, building upon the work of the > Objectivists, affirms the primacy of the kinetic field. O?Hara, > speaking for the New York poets and for Jack Spicer > in the west, brings the multivalent, > proto-ironic voice that prefigures much of today?s post-modern > work. In Bernstein?s work there is a consciousness of > self-reflectivity, of hyper-reality, of language-permeation, that > is absolutely germane to our moment. Poets writing now have a > choice between these (and other!) models as they try not only to > follow John Ashbery ?s cryptic > admonition to "Make it sweet again!" but to answer the vexing > question, what is "sweet?" > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Shop & Support Poets.org > > *Donald Hall CD* > > > > $12.00 | More Info > > *View All Store Items* > > > > > > > > Share Digg > > StumbleUpon > Facebook > E-mail > to Friend > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, June 24, 2011 2:45:31 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > the sound ... the fury -- > *www*.*poets.org*/*page*.*php*/*prmID*/*201* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, June 24, 2011 1:31:51 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > I'm confused. You mean cargo manifest-o or ovious-o? > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: Jun 24, 2011 9:20 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto > > Any good Manifestoes out there? A poetry related manifesto? I > could write a misinformed phamplet, one full of misdirected > venom, but I'm talking > a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? > Where's the manifesto? Man up ... > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jun 24 18:47:06 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:47:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Message-ID: <25237913.1308955626575.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 24 21:27:53 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:27:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <25237913.1308955626575.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25237913.1308955626575.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CE00EE3D0E18CA-15D0-B7F8@webmail-m006.sysops.aol.com> Reading Gertrude Stein in Braile? -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2011 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Maximus is a pretty good gloss on what he meant by field. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire Sent: Jun 24, 2011 4:16 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto I really don't want to get myself in over my head on this question (one step and gone forever), but I'd say that Olson may well have had (more or less) technical conceptions of "field" from mathematics or physics in mind. What I know about that stuff I've already exhausted just by bringing it up, but it's worth a thought. (The linguist Kenneth Pike tried to develop a new rhetorical theory based on wave, particle, and field perspectives on language.) Maybe even more than with photons and electrons, any application of these technical terminologies to language would seem to run into the problem of where such things as a "field" might emerge. Are they textual phenomena somehow, or purely psychological events (also, somehow)? In any case, to conceive of poetic (or linguistic) effects with reference to particles, waves, and fields (or objects and shapes of any kind) feels like an instance of what Martin Jay called "ocularcentrism"--the tendency to represent our mental processes in dead metaphors derived from operating on objects in the visual arena. Like I said, over my head. Darling Frank O'Hara, as always, strikes me as having more fun than the rest of the crew--especially with the idea of "manifesto." Best, Jerry On 6/24/2011 2:25 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: Olson's "field" isn't two-dimensional. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sent: Jun 24, 2011 3:12 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Making It Sweet Again: On Manifestos by Olson, O'Hara, and Bernstein by Cort Day Poetry, like any art, must renew itself continually. Charles Olson?s manifesto "Projective/Verse", published in 1950, describes poetry?s need to recover the energy of its sources from the exhausted (in his view) formal practice of Eliot and the New Critics. Projective verse, a.k.a. "composition by field" and "objectism," sees the poem not as words in lines upon a page, but as a field of energy-charged objects representing the poem?s psychic content in a state of immediacy, before laziness and habit have conspired to turn it into mere verse. Olson exhorts poets to attend to language with their ears, to compose according to the measure of their breathing (spiritus), to work with the "elements and minims of language...to engage speech where it is least careless?and least logical," and so to fix the pulse of energy before it reaches the stasis of conventional form. In the projective act, the poet makes of sound-objects (syllables, words) a projection that, if the act be undertaken with the proper seriousness, and without the interfering lyric ego, and in the humble understanding that the poet is himself a mere object among material objects, "may take its place alongside the things of nature." In making the case for syllables as the atoms of poetry, Olson briefly mentions the connotative resonance of syllables within the language, pointing out that "?Is? comes from the Aryan root, as, to breathe," among other examples. He also refers to Hart Crane?s "attempt to get back to word as handle." Still, it is worth noting that Olson?s project doesn?t develop a distinction between the connotative resonance of language (is = as) and its denotative function, in which sound-objects denote physical objects, the tables and ships and quasars of the world. Whereas Olson?s essay wants nothing more than to be a manifesto, Frank O?Hara?s "Personism: A Manifesto," written in 1959, takes a more complex stance. While refusing, in spite of its title, to stand in direct opposition to any poetic orthodoxy, it nonetheless blithely informs us that it "may be the death of literature as we know it." But this claim is suspect, for it follows in the wake of (for example): "Personism has nothing to do with philosophy, it?s all art. It does not have to do with personality or intimacy, far from it! But to give you a vague idea, one of its minimal aspects is to address itself to one person (other than the poet himself), thus evoking overtones of love without destroying love?s life-giving vulgarity, and sustaining the poet?s feelings toward the poem while preventing love from distracting him into feeling about the person?.It was founded by me after lunch with LeRoi Jones..." It?s less useful to talk about "Personism" as a description of poetic methodology than as a demonstration of a mode of poetic discourse. As a method, Personism stipulates only that the poem be written for the person who is the object of the poet?s affections, possibly in lieu of a phone call. (It does not stipulate that the poem be delivered to the person.) As discourse, it is endlessly protean. And self-aware. And ironic. The word "indeterminate" might also apply. To construct a manifesto out of the materials of a love letter is plainly a tongue-in-cheek undertaking. But O?Hara?s description of his intent (in the passage above) has an undeniable ring of truth. And while the tone of the language clearly evokes a personality and a sense of intimacy, it is not hard to detect in it something of the ad-man?s descant. It feels wonderfully useless, to me, to try to compare O?Hara?s manifesto to Olson?s, because on almost every point of comparison (say, seriousness), O?Hara could be said to break two ways. The notable exception comes in O?Hara?s statement that "You just go on your nerve," which shares much with Olson?s insistence on staying true to the content of the poem. While Personism threatens the end of literature but is too happily preoccupied to do anything about it, Charles Bernstein?s "Semblance," published in 1980, has both motive and opportunity: "So not to have the work resolve at the level of the "field" if this is to mean a uniplanar surface within which the poem operates. Structure that can?t be separated from decisions made within it, constantly poking through the expected parameters. Rather than having a single form or shape or idea of the work pop out as you read, the structure itself is pulled into a moebius-like twisting momentum. In the process, the language takes on a centrifugal force that seems to trip it out of the poem, turn it out from itself, exteriorizing it. Textures, vocabularies, discourses, constructivist modes of radically different character are not integrated into a field as part of a predetermined planar architecture; the gaps and jumps compose a space with shifting parameters, types and styles of discourse constantly crisscrossing, interacting, creating new gels." One could spend a good deal of time parsing the ways in which "Semblance" speaks to Olson?s essay, cataloging what it saves and what it rejects. But the passage above makes clear what is, I think, the key phenomenological difference between them: in Olson?s conception, the projection was of experience onto a two-dimensional field; in Bernstein's, the poem-object is emphatically three-dimensional. And as such, it is virtual. Bernstein defines virtuality in terms of language qua language (or, yes, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E), by which he means, among other things, that language has taken another step away from a denotative basis (chair = chair) and toward a connotative one (the multiple referential vectors passing in all directions through "chair" will encounter "cathedral" and "sedation" long before they encounter a real chair). It is illuminating that in defining the leap he has taken, Bernstein draws heavily upon the vocabularies of theory and technology; it does seem, in fact, that the one dimension he has added to Olson?s two dimensions has a preponderance of theory in it. (It is in this preponderance of theory that one could find, were one so inclined, the motive and opportunity mentioned above. One might also see evidence of the lengths that poetry will go to, using poets as fodder, as hosts, to graft itself into human institutions and thus ensure its own survival.) Perhaps it is not entirely new to poetry that it should succeed by resonating in a depth of field beyond what is available on the page. On the other hand, it is impossible to deny the prescience of a work on virtuality that was written when Pong was a state-of-the-art video game. And, in any case, the three manifestos discussed here, while implicitly or explicitly opposed to each other in many ways, do show, from one perspective at least, the progression from the twentieth to the twenty-first century in American poetry. Olson, building upon the work of the Objectivists, affirms the primacy of the kinetic field. O?Hara, speaking for the New York poets and for Jack Spicer in the west, brings the multivalent, proto-ironic voice that prefigures much of today?s post-modern work. In Bernstein?s work there is a consciousness of self-reflectivity, of hyper-reality, of language-permeation, that is absolutely germane to our moment. Poets writing now have a choice between these (and other!) models as they try not only to follow John Ashbery?s cryptic admonition to "Make it sweet again!" but to answer the vexing question, what is "sweet?" Shop & Support Poets.org Donald Hall CD $12.00 | More Info View All Store Items Share Digg StumbleUpon Facebook E-mail to Friend From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 2:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto the sound ... the fury -- www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/201 From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 1:31:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto I'm confused. You mean cargo manifest-o or ovious-o? -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sent: Jun 24, 2011 9:20 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Any good Manifestoes out there? A poetry related manifesto? I could write a misinformed phamplet, one full of misdirected venom, but I'm talking a well advised manifesto. Bob Grumman, are you out there? Where's the manifesto? Man up ... ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- rof. Jerry McGuire ept. of English niversity of Louisiana at Lafayette lm8047 at louisiana.edu 37-482-5478 _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 21:33:04 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:33:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: <8CE00EE3D0E18CA-15D0-B7F8@webmail-m006.sysops.aol.com> References: <25237913.1308955626575.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CE00EE3D0E18CA-15D0-B7F8@webmail-m006.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Inspired by the Futurist Manifesto, I recently wrote the following poem: BURN LIST 10. We want to demolish museums and libraries? ?from The Futurist Manifesto, F.T. Marinetti, Paris, 1919 You?d want to pick your targets, say an older town library, without sprinklers, one that could burn nicely in a visible location; but honestly, torching a library is show-offy and besides, abandoned they demolish themselves, given time, like old horse barns, collapsing under the February snow and they are never missed. But if you must, must, hear my instructions: Each member of the cadre may burn only the libraries where he has actually read and studied and borrowed, and if there are several, do not rush but wait quietly for discernment, select the one that most deserves to fuel the blazing flame of the future. Now consider, which shall it be? Remember the Vineland, the White Oak, the Fackenthal; and Congress; the Baker, the Olin, the Starr; the Widener, Houghton, the Kress, the Beinecke; Monterey, Pacific Grove, or the Ilsley, all equally worthy. Which would you choose? From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jun 24 22:13:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 22:13:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ode to Happiness Message-ID: <8CE00F49DBE45AE-15D0-BAD5@webmail-m006.sysops.aol.com> http://www.limelife.com/blog-entry/Keanu-Reeves-Turns-Tragic-Poet/136345.html I've always thought Keanu Reeves' needed a snuggie, a great big hug and a "there, there" pat on the back. Instead, in a bid to cheer himself up, the ever glum Reeves has now channeled his emotions into haiku, releasing a poetry book titled Ode to Happiness. Reeves? reasons for releasing the book, could be linked to the ?Sad Keanu? internet themes that have dominated Facebook and Twitter (check out #sadkeanu), ever since he was pictured eating all alone on a park bench. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Jun 25 12:12:53 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 11:12:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Out Loud Message-ID: <74FF5B71-EF33-4CB2-909D-4676AF723368@ripon.edu> There is a radio program on Wisconsin Public Radio called To the Best of Our Knowledge; I don't know how widely it may be distributed nationwide. Anyway, the program this morning was well worth a listen: "Poetry Out Loud." This is really what radio does best. Podcasts & streams available here in various formats: http://wpr.org/book/100711a.cfm The show features several segments, including a Rae Armantrout interview & Natalie Merchant talking about her wonderful album of old poems set to music, "Leave Your Sleep." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jun 25 13:25:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manifesto In-Reply-To: References: <25237913.1308955626575.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CE00EE3D0E18CA-15D0-B7F8@webmail-m006.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3083.67625.qm@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> cool poem. the book seems an after/thought in today's libraries. In D.C., they provide drop in relief to the homeless. The express line for computers rivals that of the busiest grocery store. Ditto Dvd and Cd lanes ... but books ... some people, I think, still read, but I can't prove it. too bad the futurist got involved with the dictator. unlike, say, Heidegger, rather than fear modernity, they seem to have a naive faith in it. maybe not so wise, but their work was among the best of the last centrury. ________________________________ From: David Weinstock To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 9:33:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Manifesto Inspired by the Futurist Manifesto, I recently wrote the following poem: BURN LIST 10. We want to demolish museums and libraries? ?from The Futurist Manifesto, F.T. Marinetti, Paris, 1919 You?d want to pick your targets, say an older town library, without sprinklers, one that could burn nicely in a visible location; but honestly, torching a library is show-offy and besides, abandoned they demolish themselves, given time, like old horse barns, collapsing under the February snow and they are never missed. But if you must, must, hear my instructions: Each member of the cadre may burn only the libraries where he has actually read and studied and borrowed, and if there are several, do not rush but wait quietly for discernment, select the one that most deserves to fuel the blazing flame of the future. Now consider, which shall it be? Remember the Vineland, the White Oak, the Fackenthal; and Congress; the Baker, the Olin, the Starr; the Widener, Houghton, the Kress, the Beinecke; Monterey, Pacific Grove, or the Ilsley, all equally worthy. Which would you choose? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 15:09:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:09:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fra Filippo Lippi Message-ID: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Fra_Filippo_Lippi_014.jpg Fra Lippi. I was looking at some Annunciationson Wikipedia, each one so distinct and meaningful. And finally Lippi, here he is. I have often wandered along the absolute transparency of his days, the liquid perfection, the air you can breathe here in his world made just of goodness and beauty. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 15:26:12 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:26:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Out Loud In-Reply-To: <74FF5B71-EF33-4CB2-909D-4676AF723368@ripon.edu> References: <74FF5B71-EF33-4CB2-909D-4676AF723368@ripon.edu> Message-ID: If you follow the link for Bobby McFerrin you can play around: http://bobbymcferrin.com/sing-and-play-with-bobby/ I know "To the best of our knowledge" - I think npr broadcasts this program, otherwise it's kqed. Thanks for the reminder. On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 6:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > There is a radio program on Wisconsin Public Radio called To the Best of > Our Knowledge; I don't know how widely it may be distributed nationwide. > > Anyway, the program this morning was well worth a listen: "Poetry Out > Loud." This is really what radio does best. > > Podcasts & streams available here in various formats: > > http://wpr.org/book/100711a.cfm > > The show features several segments, including a Rae Armantrout interview & > Natalie Merchant talking about her wonderful album of old poems set to > music, "Leave Your Sleep." > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 15:55:59 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:55:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fra Filippo Lippi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, yes, that "unlawful beauty" that can anger the gods. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Fra_Filippo_Lippi_014.jpg > > Fra Lippi. I was looking at some Annunciationson Wikipedia, each one so distinct and meaningful. And finally Lippi, here > he is. I have often wandered along the absolute transparency of his days, > the liquid perfection, the air you can breathe here in his world made just > of goodness and beauty. > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 16:48:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 22:48:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fra Filippo Lippi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: See Mayakovsky [although by reading the Italian version, there might be more to it in the original than the following] I swear by my pagan strength - gimme a girl, young, eye-filling, and I won?t waste my feelings on her. I'll rape her and spear her heart with a gibe willingly. for the entire poem [again I doubt the validity of the translation] http://www.best-poems.net/vladimir_mayakovsky/poem-19987.html On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ah, yes, that "unlawful beauty" that can anger the gods. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Fra_Filippo_Lippi_014.jpg >> >> Fra Lippi. I was looking at some Annunciationson Wikipedia, each one so distinct and meaningful. And finally Lippi, here >> he is. I have often wandered along the absolute transparency of his days, >> the liquid perfection, the air you can breathe here in his world made just >> of goodness and beauty. >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jun 25 20:56:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:56:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinsky at the beach Message-ID: <8CE01B2F3FBEDB5-1110-11AC6@webmail-d031.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304392704576374011026568604.html Possibly to prove I was a good packer and possibly because I can't resist the ocean, I said I had a bathing suit?let's see the beach. Within a few minutes I was practically whimpering with happiness, scraping myself raw on the coral, gazing at fish the colors of parrots, clowns, neon lights. Abundant crowds and chorus lines of them. I couldn't stop, couldn't make myself get out of the water. Sometimes the world's beauty simply takes over. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Jun 26 01:54:26 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 05:54:26 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fra Filippo Lippi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Its radiant clarity's palpable starlight. Hush. Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:09:23 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Fra Filippo Lippi http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Fra_Filippo_Lippi_014.jpg Fra Lippi. I was looking at some Annunciations on Wikipedia, each one so distinct and meaningful. And finally Lippi, here he is. I have often wandered along the absolute transparency of his days, the liquid perfection, the air you can breathe here in his world made just of goodness and beauty. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jun 26 19:04:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:04:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb Message-ID: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> The covers of this book are too far apart. -- Ambrose Bierce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 19:36:52 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:36:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Criticism is prejudice made plausible. -- H. L. Mencken "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:04 PM, wrote: > The covers of this book are too far apart. > -- Ambrose Bierce > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 02:06:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:06:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: a golden star On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:04 AM, wrote: > The covers of this book are too far apart. > -- Ambrose Bierce > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 27 07:18:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:18:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb Message-ID: <3befc4cec7d0472c82ab42c32e2221f4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Criticism of criticism is fear of being found out. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 27 11:14:51 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:14:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <3befc4cec7d0472c82ab42c32e2221f4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <3befc4cec7d0472c82ab42c32e2221f4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > Criticism of criticism is fear of?being found out. So what are you hiding? There is probably no one on this list who exerts more effort criticizing criticism than you... c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 27 13:26:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:26:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb Message-ID: ------- Original Message ------- >From : Chris Lott[mailto:chris at chrislott.org] Sent : 6/27/2011 11:14:51 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > Criticism of criticism is fear of being found out. So what are you hiding? There is probably no one on this list who exerts more effort criticizing criticism than you... I never criticize criticism, Chris, only specific botched attempts at it. I also criticize poems without ever criticizing poetry. --Bob. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 13:37:52 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 12:37:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: References: <8CE026C826A3C7D-E18-952A@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: As a blurb, how 'bout: "The page is no longer blank." Or "Reader, pass by." Or "I had not thought it possible for someone to be so enamored of his (or her) own inadequacies." Or "A unimodal distribution of unconsidered attitudes." But, yes, Bierce is the hero of the jab and thrust. I once didn't buy an early edition of *The Devil's Dictionary* because it was so dark. But since have purchased a paperback because the language is so good. On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > a golden star > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:04 AM, wrote: > >> The covers of this book are too far apart. >> -- Ambrose Bierce >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 27 13:46:14 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 09:46:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:26 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > > I never criticize criticism, Chris, only specific botched attempts at it.? I > also criticize poems without ever criticizing poetry. do you seriously not think that "criticizing specific botched attempts at criticism" is not an example of "criticizing criticism?" And that's without even getting to the fact that your "botched criticism" is often someone else's milk. I don't kill people, I just kill people I don't agree with! c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 27 14:09:15 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:09:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb Message-ID: <77a250cacf024c478904de0fdf794bb4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> There's "criticism," the generality, and there are specimens of criticism, Chris. I don't criticize the former, just the latter. I'm willing to concede that the use of the term can be tricky, but in the context of Mencken's remark, it should be obvious what I meant. He said, "Criticism is making one's prejudices plausible," or something like that. He was talking about criticism, the generality. So was I--without losing my little joke about people who criticize criticism--i.e., committing the crime they are opposing. Like those constantly using words to tell us words are meaningless. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 27 14:12:49 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:12:49 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <77a250cacf024c478904de0fdf794bb4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <77a250cacf024c478904de0fdf794bb4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I know all that, Bob. You are missing the point... but it doesn't seem productive to try to explain again. c On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:09 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > There's "criticism," the generality, and there are specimens of criticism, > Chris.? I don't criticize the former, just the latter.? I'm willing to > concede that the use of the term can be tricky, but in the context of > Mencken's remark, it should be obvious what I meant.? He said, "Criticism is > making one's prejudices plausible," or something like that.? He was talking > about criticism, the generality.? So was I--without losing my little joke > about people who criticize criticism--i.e., committing the crime they are > opposing.? Like those constantly using words to tell us words are > meaningless. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jun 27 14:36:19 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: References: <3befc4cec7d0472c82ab42c32e2221f4.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1309199779.7452.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?I wish "Bob Grumman's" criticism of criticism was half as productive as Mystery Science Theater - and a fraction as entertaining. -- http://youtu.be/id4CvoKDTR0 Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 AM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > > Criticism of criticism is fear of?being found out. So what are you hiding? There is probably no one on this list who exerts more effort criticizing criticism than you... c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 27 14:52:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:52:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb Message-ID: <0ee9ec804e2b4c66950cbc5e3f993401.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> ------- Original Message ------- >From : Chris Lott[mailto:chris at chrislott.org] Sent : 6/27/2011 2:12:49 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb I know all that, Bob. You are missing the point... but it doesn't seem productive to try to explain again. c Sorry, but I can't see that your point can be anything except that I, a critic, contradict myself by suggesting I'm against criticism of criticism. It would be valid if I were a critic of criticism. I'm not, so I don't contradict myself. But to clarify beyond reason, I would say, "Those artists opposed to the vocation of art criticism are mediocrities afraid of being found out." This, like all such sayings, is a half-truth. Badly stated. Many do not fear being found out, but simply lack thecritical temperament--as many lack the poetic temperament. And that's it for me in this thread. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 14:53:05 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:53:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <0ee9ec804e2b4c66950cbc5e3f993401.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <0ee9ec804e2b4c66950cbc5e3f993401.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Hasta luego, B-bob. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 1:52 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > > > ------- Original Message ------- > *From :* Chris Lott[mailto:chris at chrislott.org] > *Sent :* 6/27/2011 2:12:49 PM > *To :* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Cc :* > *Subject :* RE: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb > > > I know all that, Bob. You are missing the point... but it doesn't seem > productive to try to explain again. > > c > > Sorry, but I can't see that your point can be anything except that I, a > critic, contradict myself by suggesting I'm against criticism of criticism. > It would be valid if I were a critic of criticism. I'm not, so I don't > contradict myself. But to clarify beyond reason, I would say, "Those > artists opposed to the vocation of art criticism are mediocrities afraid of > being found out." This, like all such sayings, is a half-truth. Badly > stated. Many do not fear being found out, but simply lack thecritical > temperament--as many lack the poetic temperament. And that's it for me in > this thread. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 00:20:23 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 23:20:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Message-ID: You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Tue Jun 28 10:00:18 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:00:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Foley's "Visions and Affiliations" reviewed at The Tower Journal Message-ID: <2CA339CF6A7D49B6A8EE96F2B81DE915@MaryAnnPC> There's a new review of Jack Foley's "Visions and Affiliations" at The Tower Journal. http://www.towerjournal.com/Jack_foley_review.htm Mary Ann Sullivan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 14:13:48 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:13:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 14:18:58 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:18:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a > little, please, :-) > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 14:33:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] bad blurb In-Reply-To: <0ee9ec804e2b4c66950cbc5e3f993401.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> References: <0ee9ec804e2b4c66950cbc5e3f993401.bobgrumman@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1309286003.2190.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I?haven't followed the argument closely, but I've?been baffled by?"artist opposed to the vocation of art criticism." Since Coleridge, poets have strained to make known their methodoloy. The major 20th century English language modernist, Eliot, Pound, and Williams, probably spent as much time working on their criticism as they did on their poems. ________________________________ From: "bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 2:52:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb ------- Original Message ------- From : Chris Lott[mailto:chris at chrislott.org] Sent : 6/27/2011 2:12:49 PM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [New-Poetry] bad blurb I know all that, Bob. You are missing the point... but it doesn't seem productive to try to explain again. c Sorry, but I can't see that your point can be anything except that I, a critic, contradict myself by suggesting I'm against criticism of criticism.? It would be valid if I were a critic of criticism.? I'm not, so I don't contradict myself.? But to clarify beyond reason, I would say, "Those artists opposed to the vocation of art criticism are mediocrities afraid of being found out."? This, like all such?sayings, is a half-truth.? Badly stated.? Many?do not fear?being found out, but?simply lack?thecritical temperament--as many lack the poetic temperament.? And that's it for me in this thread. --Bob? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 14:36:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) > > >On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >You can find it here --> ?http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >> >>?? ? >> >> >>"Reality cannot be copywrited." >>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields >> >> >>Hal >>Halvard Johnson >>================ >> >>halvard at gmail.com >>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> >> >>Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>Sonnets; >>Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >>Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >>G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>Transparencies & Projections >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 09:20:25 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:20:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob Grummans? Message-ID: >From The Newyorker: -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 110704_cartoon_049_a15852_p465.gif Type: image/gif Size: 87122 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 09:21:41 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:21:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] and this one is for me... Message-ID: from the Newyorker: -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 110704_cartoon_018_a15873_p465.gif Type: image/gif Size: 68643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 09:43:44 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:43:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob Grummans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No one expects the Spanish disquisition. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > From The Newyorker: > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 29 12:52:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:52:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob Grummans? Message-ID: Because you'd hear them arguing a hundred miles away. --Bob ------- Original Message ------- >From : Anny Ballardini[mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com] Sent : 6/29/2011 9:20:25 AM To : new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc : Subject : RE: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob Grummans? >From The Newyorker: -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 13:17:00 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:17:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob Grummans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both great answers: A to Hal and to Bob. On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:52 PM, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > Because you'd hear them arguing a hundred miles away. > > --Bob > > > > ------- Original Message ------- > *From :* Anny Ballardini[mailto:anny.ballardini at gmail.com] > *Sent :* 6/29/2011 9:20:25 AM > *To :* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Cc :* > *Subject :* RE: [New-Poetry] How do we know it is not full of Bob > Grummans? > > > From The Newyorker: > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 29 14:02:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:02:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Don Share and Poetry (Chicago) Message-ID: <8CE049DD30AED43-1A98-427F7@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/22/2969079/poetry-magazine-well-versed-in.html Or knew Don Share. Share is the senior editor of Poetry magazine, the venerable Chicago-based literary institution. It turns 100 next year and has seen far more than nothing happen, particularly in the past decade. Share arrived at the magazine four years ago, hired away from Harvard University, where he was poetry editor of Harvard Review. Soon after arriving, he received what he calls a "threatening phone call." It came from a famous novelist whose name he won't say, but the message to Share was this: You really don't want to find yourself alone in the same room with me. "He couldn't believe we rejected his poems," Share said of the man. "When you work in poetry all day, it's internal. People get shaken. I was shaken." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 29 14:36:26 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:36:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 15:30:13 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:30:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry in west County Cork Message-ID: _____________________________________ The West Cork Literary Festival http://www.westcorkliteraryfestival.ie/ Monday 4 July 2011 6:30 p.m., Poetry Readings at The Mariner, Free Admission (Over the Brick Oven Restaurant) Bantry, west County Cork, Ireland Dairena N? Chinn?ide and Peadar ? hUallaigh with R?n?n ? Snodaigh Dairena N? Chinn?ide is an incantatory poet. Her work is deeply rooted in the language, folklore and traditions of her native Corca Dhuibhne, but also pulses with cutting-edge contemporary rhythms. Her collections include "M?thair an Fhiaigh/The Raven's Mother" and "Bleachtaire na Seirce." Tonight she will be accompanied by K?la's lead singer and multi-instrumentalist, R?n?n ? Snodaigh. Peadar ? hUallaigh's "T?r Tairngre," winner of the 2010 Rupert and Eithne Strong Award, is a vision-poet; and he is a unafraid to take a voyage to the discrete lands of Utopia. An accomplished traditional musician, Peadar will also play on the flute tonight. This bi-lingual reading is curated by Liam Carson, director of the IMRAM Irish Language Literature Festival. And then on ... Wednesday 6 July 2011 1:00 p.m., Lunchtime Reading at the Bantry Library, Free Admission Liam Carson will read from his "Call Mother a Lonely Field." "Call Mother a Lonely Field is an immensely pleasurable book," The Irish Times For additional information, contact ... info at westcorkliteraryfestival.ie _____________________________________ From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 29 17:22:07 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:22:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] compass rose Message-ID: <8CE04B9BBBCCDC3-C08-45A7@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> Couple of recent post from Compass Rose blog... Rosamond Purcell's Bookworm... http://compassrosebooks.blogspot.com/2011/06/rosamond-purcells-bookworm.html Guillevic and Donald Justice... http://compassrosebooks.blogspot.com/2011/06/guillevic-justice-man-closing-up.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Jun 29 17:26:11 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Gotta love Frank O'Hara --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here to "like" my FB page. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jun 29 18:56:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1309388196.86621.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i prefer O'Hara, but Patchen will do. The following poem has a James Wright sound. The Orange Bears User Rating: 5.6 /10 (21 votes) - vote - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Print friendly version E-mail this poem to e friend Send this poem as eCard Add this poem to MyPoemList The Orange bears with soft friendly eyes Who played with me when I was ten, Christ, before I'd left home they'd had Their paws smashed in the rolls, their backs Seared by hot slag, their soft trusting Bellies kicked in, their tongues ripped Out, and I went down through the woods To the smelly crick with Whitman In the Haldeman-Julius edition, And I just sat there worrying my thumbnail Into the cover---What did he know about Orange bears with their coats all stunk up with soft coal And the National Guard coming over >From Wheeling to stand in front of the millgates With drawn bayonets jeering at the strikers? I remember you would put daisies On the windowsill at night and in The morning they'd be so covered with soot You couldn't tell what they were anymore. A hell of a fat chance my orange bears had! Create Date : Monday, January 20, 2003 Kenneth Patchen ________________________________ From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 5:26:11 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange Gotta love Frank O'Hara --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here to "like" my FB page. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) > > >On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 29 22:25:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:25:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange Gotta love Frank O'Hara --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here to "like" my FB page. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jun 29 22:17:22 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:17:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE04E2FB17194A-16B4-15A6D@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN-NaxSRN4E Ballad of Orange and Grape After you finish your work after you do your day after you've read your reading after you've written your say ? you go down the street to the hot dog stand, one block down and across the way. On a blistering afternoon in East Harlem in the twentieth century. Most of the windows are boarded up, the rats run out of a sack ? sticking out of the crummy garage one shiny long Cadillac; at the glass door of the drug-addiction center, a man who'd like to break your back. But here's a brown woman with a little girl dressed in rose and pink, too. Frankfurters, frankfurters sizzle on the steel where the hot-dog-man leans ? nothing else on the counter but the usual two machines, the grape one, empty, and the orange one, empty, I face him in between. A black boy comes along, looks at the hot dogs, goes on walking. I watch the man as he stands and pours in the familiar shape bright purple in the one marked ORANGE orange in the one marked GRAPE, the grape drink in the machine marked ORANGE and orange drink in the GRAPE. Just the one word large and clear, unmistakable, one each machine. I ask him: How can we go on reading and make sense out of what we read? ? How can they write and believe what they're writing, the young ones across the street, while you go on pouring grape into ORANGE and orange into the one marked GRAPE ?? (How are we going to believe what we read and what we write and we hear and we say and we do?) He looks at the two machines and he smiles and he shrugs and smiles and pours again. It could be violence and nonviolence it could be black and white women and men it could be war and peace or any binary system, love and hate, enemy, friend. Yes and no, be and not-be, what we do and what we don't do. On a corner in East Harlem garbage, reading, a deep smile, rape, forgetfulness, a hot street of murder, misery, withered hope, a man keeps pouring grape into ORANGE and orange into the one marked GRAPE, pouring orange into GRAPE and grape into ORANGE forever. Muriel Rukeyser (1973) -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 30 07:49:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:49:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Don Share and Poetry (Chicago) Message-ID: Interesting how these Poetry people deal with their critics in this article: completely ignoring the intelligent criticism they've gotten focusing instead on (1) someone unnamed who offers no criticism, just blasts them, supposedly for rejecting his poetry, and (2),those who are jealous of their grant . . . whose negative remarks they don't bother to reveal. Laughable, too, their quiet pride in "taking risks." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jun 30 09:05:34 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04E2FB17194A-16B4-15A6D@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E2FB17194A-16B4-15A6D@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1309439134.23075.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> what the hell ... at least it has an orange ... POEM THAT INCLUDES THE WORD ORANGE i curse the weather today friends call me petty is an earthquake petty? a tornado, flood? the Red Sea parts as i purchase an orange from the deli around the corner running to outwit the storm wind chasing circles poised ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 10:17:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN-NaxSRN4E Ballad of Orange and Grape After you finish your work after you do your day after you've read your reading after you've written your say ? you go down the street to the hot dog stand, one block down and across the way. On a blistering afternoon in East Harlem in the twentieth century. Most of the windows are boarded up, the rats run out of a sack ? sticking out of the crummy garage one shiny long Cadillac; at the glass door of the drug-addiction center, a man who'd like to break your back. But here's a brown woman with a little girl dressed in rose and pink, too. Frankfurters, frankfurters sizzle on the steel where the hot-dog-man leans ? nothing else on the counter but the usual two machines, the grape one, empty, and the orange one, empty, I face him in between. A black boy comes along, looks at the hot dogs, goes on walking. I watch the man as he stands and pours in the familiar shape bright purple in the one marked ORANGE orange in the one marked GRAPE, the grape drink in the machine marked ORANGE and orange drink in the GRAPE. Just the one word large and clear, unmistakable, one each machine. I ask him: How can we go on reading and make sense out of what we read? ? How can they write and believe what they're writing, the young ones across the street, while you go on pouring grape into ORANGE and orange into the one marked GRAPE ?? (How are we going to believe what we read and what we write and we hear and we say and we do?) He looks at the two machines and he smiles and he shrugs and smiles and pours again. It could be violence and nonviolence it could be black and white ?????women and men it could be war and peace or any binary system, love and hate, enemy, friend. Yes and no, be and not-be, what we do and what we don't do. On a corner in East Harlem garbage, reading, a deep smile, rape, forgetfulness, a hot street of murder, misery, withered hope, a man keeps pouring grape into ORANGE and orange into the one marked GRAPE, pouring orange into GRAPE and grape into ORANGE forever. Muriel Rukeyser (1973) -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange Why I Am Not a Painter I am not a painter, I am a poet. Why? I think I would rather be a painter, but I am not. Well, for instance, Mike Goldberg is starting a painting. I drop in. "Sit down and have a drink" he says. I drink; we drink. I look up. "You have SARDINES in it." "Yes, it needed something there." "Oh." I go and the days go by and I drop in again. The painting is going on, and I go, and the days go by. I drop in. The painting is finished. "Where's SARDINES?" All that's left is just letters, "It was too much," Mike says. But me? One day I am thinking of a color: orange. I write a line about orange. Pretty soon it is a whole page of words, not lines. Then another page. There should be so much more, not of orange, of words, of how terrible orange is and life. Days go by. It is even in prose, I am a real poet. My poem is finished and I haven't mentioned orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the great/late Sorrentino: Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert Title: The Orangery Publisher: Sun & Moon Press Pub. Date: Fall 1995 Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR anymore. ?? ? "Reality cannot be copywrited." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, please, :-) > > >On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >You can find it here --> ?http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >> >>?? ?? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jun 30 15:55:58 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:55:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <1309439134.23075.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com><8CE04E2FB17194A-16B4-15A6D@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309439134.23075.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE0576DD39B628-1914-2C505@webmail-d139.sysops.aol.com> The Revolutionists Stop for Orangeade Capit?n profundo, capit?n geloso, Ask us not to sing standing in the sun, Hairy-backed and hump-armed, Flat-ribbed and big-bagged. There is no pith in music Except in something false. Bellissimo, pomposo, Sing a song of serpent-kin, Necks among the thousand leaves, Tongues around the fruit. Sing in clownish boots strapped and buckled bright. Wear the breeches of a mask, Coat half-flare and half galloon, Wear a helmet without reason, Tufted, tilted, twirled, and twisted. Start the singing in a voice Rougher than a grinding shale. Hang a feather by your eye, Nod and look a little sly. This must be the vent of pity, Deeper than a truer ditty Of the real that wrenches, Of the quick that's wry. Wallace Stevens, Harmonium -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 16:36:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:36:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great guy! On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: > Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... > http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm > > I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Millicent Borges Accardi > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange > > Gotta love > Frank O'Hara > > > > --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) > > > > > Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here > to > "like" my FB page. Thanks! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames > To: new-poetry > Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange > > Why I Am Not a Painter > > I am not a painter, I am a poet. > Why? I think I would rather be > a painter, but I am not. Well, > > for instance, Mike Goldberg > is starting a painting. I drop in. > "Sit down and have a drink" he > says. I drink; we drink. I look > up. "You have SARDINES in it." > "Yes, it needed something there." > "Oh." I go and the days go by > and I drop in again. The painting > is going on, and I go, and the days > go by. I drop in. The painting is > finished. "Where's SARDINES?" > All that's left is just > letters, "It was too much," Mike says. > > But me? One day I am thinking of > a color: orange. I write a line > about orange. Pretty soon it is a > whole page of words, not lines. > Then another page. There should be > so much more, not of orange, of > words, of how terrible orange is > and life. Days go by. It is even in > prose, I am a real poet. My poem > is finished and I haven't mentioned > orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call > it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery > I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES > > > Frank O'Hara > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now > online > > Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by > the great/late Sorrentino: > > *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery > *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press > *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert > Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation > on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an > intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & > Moon Press > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now > online > > The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do > with HSR anymore. > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a >> little, please, :-) >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: