From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 09:46:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great guy! On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm > >I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list > >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Millicent Borges Accardi >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange > > >Gotta love >Frank O'Hara > > > >--Mill (reporting from Lisboa) > > > > > > >Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here to "like" my FB page. Thanks! > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: jforjames >To: new-poetry >Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange > > >Why I Am Not a Painter > >I am not a painter, I am a poet. >Why? I think I would rather be >a painter, but I am not. Well, > >for instance, Mike Goldberg >is starting a painting. I drop in. >"Sit down and have a drink" he >says. I drink; we drink. I look >up. "You have SARDINES in it." >"Yes, it needed something there." >"Oh." I go and the days go by >and I drop in again. The painting >is going on, and I go, and the days >go by. I drop in. The painting is >finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >All that's left is just >letters, "It was too much," Mike says. > >But me? One day I am thinking of >a color: orange. I write a line >about orange. Pretty soon it is a >whole page of words, not lines. >Then another page. There should be >so much more, not of orange, of >words, of how terrible orange is >and life. Days go by. It is even in >prose, I am a real poet. My poem >is finished and I haven't mentioned >orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES > > >Frank O'Hara > > >-----Original Message----- >From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online > > >Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by the >great/late Sorrentino: > > Author: Sorrentino, Gilbert >Title: The Orangery >Publisher: Sun & Moon Press >Pub. Date: Fall 1995 >Description: The Orangery is one of Gilbert Sorrentino's most memorable >collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation on "orange" which appears and >reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a >presence expected and awaited. - Sun & Moon Press > > > > > ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now online > >The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do with HSR >anymore. > >?? ? > > >"Reality cannot be copywrited." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --David Shields > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > > >On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini >wrote: > >Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a little, >please, :-) >> >> >>On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>You can find it here --> ?http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>> >>>?? ?? >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 09:57:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 06:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop Message-ID: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> just saw this on Goodreads. I don't care for B Collins, but I enjoyed this -- Workshop By Billy Collins I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. It gets me right away because I?m in a workshop now so immediately the poem has my attention, like the Ancient Mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. And I like the first couple of stanzas, the way they establish this mode of self-pointing that runs through the whole poem and tells us that words are food thrown down on the ground for other words to eat. I can almost taste the tail of the snake in its own mouth, if you know what I mean. But what I?m not sure about is the voice, which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, but other times seems standoffish, professorial in the worst sense of the word like the poem is blowing pipe smoke in my face. But maybe that?s just what it wants to do. What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, especially the fourth one. I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges which gives me a very clear picture. And I really like how this drawbridge operator just appears out of the blue with his feet up on the iron railing and his fishing pole jigging?I like jigging? a hook in the slow industrial canal below. I love slow industrial canal below. All those l?s. Maybe it?s just me, but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? And what?s an obbligato of snow? Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. At that point I?m lost. I need help. The other thing that throws me off, and maybe this is just me, is the way the scene keeps shifting around. First, we?re in this big aerodrome and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, which makes me think this could be a dream. Then he takes us into his garden, the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, though that?s nice, the coiling hose, but then I?m not sure where we?re supposed to be. The rain and the mint green light, that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? There?s something about death going on here. In fact, I start to wonder if what we have here is really two poems, or three, or four, or possibly none. But then there?s that last stanza, my favorite. This is where the poem wins me back, especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. I mean we?ve all seen these images in cartoons before, but I still love the details he uses when he?s describing where he lives. The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, the spool of thread for a table. I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work night after night collecting all these things while the people in the house were fast asleep, and that gives me a very strong feeling, a very powerful sense of something. But I don?t know if anyone else was feeling that. Maybe that was just me. Maybe that?s just the way I read it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 10:05:24 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:05:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Truck is on the road Message-ID: *Truck* is on the road again with Skip Fox at the wheel for the month of July. Click here to hitch a ride: http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/ "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Jul 1 10:55:15 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:55:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> And I started to read this with about the same "I don't care for X, but . . ." response, but later decided, "no, wait, I really _don't_ like this poem!" But I finished it, and now I'm just ambivalent. It feels like Frank O'Hara, grown old, tired, and beaten from teaching workshops. Except that when O'Hara plays with the rhythms of everyday speech, he isn't playing, as Collins seems to be playing here. Perhaps his poem is a trap to make me catch myself doing that. But as a trap, it's feeble. I wonder about the tendency to imitate the language of (people who employ) flat prosaic speech in poems about workshops. Do you know this one by Stephen Dunn? DECORUM She wrote, "They were making love up against the gymnasium wall," and another young woman in class serious enough to smile, said "No, that's fucking, they must have been fucking," to which many agreed, pleased to have the proper fit of word with act. But an older woman, a wife, a mother, famous in the class for confusing grace with decorum and carriage, said the F-word would distract the reader, sensationalize the poem. "Why can't what they were doing just as easily be called making love?" It was an intelligent complaint, and the class proceeded to debate what's fucking, what's making love, and the importance of context, tact, and bon mot. I leaned toward those who favored fucking; they were funnier and seemed to have more experience with the happy varieties of their subject. But then a young man said, now believing he had permission, "What's the difference, you fuck 'em, and you call it making love; you tell 'em what they want to hear." The class jeered, and another man said "You're the kind of guy who gives fucking a bad name," and I remembered how fuck gets dirty as it moves reptilian out of certain minds, certain mouths. The young woman whose poem it was, small-boned and small voiced, said she had no objection to fucking, but these people were making love, it was her poem and she herself up against that gymnasium wall, and it felt like love, and the hell with all of us. There was silence. The class turned to me, their teacher, who they hoped could clarify, perhaps ease things. I told them I disliked the word fucking in a poem, but that fucking might be right in this instance, yet I was unsure now, I couldn't decide. A tear formed and moved down the poet's cheek. I said I was sure only of "gymnasium," sure it was the wrong choice, making the act seem too public, more vulgar than she wished. How about "boat house?" I said. And here's one of mine, if I can get it to print (it's got a tetchy graphic in it), a prose poem that does some of the same things, I think.: The Flagellants So we?re on Robert Frost and I?m trying to explain how if you want to find religious connections in poetry, if that?s what you really want to do, then maybe you?d be better off looking at the mystical tradition than the public institutional church for a sense of what?s happening, and I talked about the prophetic tradition and how the mystical and the institutional get fused in the flagellants of the middle ages and this kid starts snickering, I?d call it snickering, but he was respectful in his way, he was chuckling, sort of, so I said, ?what?? and he said, did you say flatulence? The flatulence of the middle ages? I thought, that works, too, sort of. Which is what I said, and then they all laughed at him. ?No, no,? I said, ?I mean it, it?s like the oracle at Delphi, the tripod and divine afflatus, the most holy is fullest of hot air.? Some of them looked a little strangely at that, but then they laughed again, and the loudest was the kid who said it first. I saw that things were out of hand, so I declared a break. I took my time to let things cool down, and when I came back someone had written on the blackboard in letters a yard high, That?s why this game?s worth playing, so I let them go early, and I hope they don?t forget it. Best, Jerry On 7/1/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: > just saw this on Goodreads. > I don't care for B Collins, but I enjoyed this -- > Workshop > By Billy Collins > > I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. > It gets me right away because I?m in a workshop now > so immediately the poem has my attention, > like the Ancient Mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. > > > And I like the first couple of stanzas, > the way they establish this mode of self-pointing > that runs through the whole poem > and tells us that words are food thrown down > on the ground for other words to eat. > I can almost taste the tail of the snake > in its own mouth, > if you know what I mean. > > > But what I?m not sure about is the voice, > which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, > but other times seems standoffish, > professorial in the worst sense of the word > like the poem is blowing pipe smoke in my face. > But maybe that?s just what it wants to do. > > > What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, > especially the fourth one. > I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges > which gives me a very clear picture. > And I really like how this drawbridge operator > just appears out of the blue > with his feet up on the iron railing > and his fishing pole jigging?I like jigging? > a hook in the slow industrial canal below. > I love slow industrial canal below. All those l?s. > > > Maybe it?s just me, > but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. > I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? > And what?s an obbligato of snow? > Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. > At that point I?m lost. I need help. > > > The other thing that throws me off, > and maybe this is just me, > is the way the scene keeps shifting around. > First, we?re in this big aerodrome > and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, > which makes me think this could be a dream. > Then he takes us into his garden, > the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, > though that?s nice, the coiling hose, > but then I?m not sure where we?re supposed to be. > The rain and the mint green light, > that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? > Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? > There?s something about death going on here. > > > In fact, I start to wonder if what we have here > is really two poems, or three, or four, > or possibly none. > > > But then there?s that last stanza, my favorite. > This is where the poem wins me back, > especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. > I mean we?ve all seen these images in cartoons before, > but I still love the details he uses > when he?s describing where he lives. > The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, > the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, > the spool of thread for a table. > I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work > night after night collecting all these things > while the people in the house were fast asleep, > and that gives me a very strong feeling, > a very powerful sense of something. > But I don?t know if anyone else was feeling that. > Maybe that was just me. > Maybe that?s just the way I read it. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5659 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Jul 1 11:29:10 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:29:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> Sorry, I see belatedly that the poem I sent earlier (mine, not Dunn's) was about a class, but not about a workshop. My point, such as it was, remains the same--that at least sometimes the language contemporary teacher-poets use to describe classroom experience feels to me weirdly artificial, and not in a good way. Are we all so intimidated by "Among School Children" that we flee to a self-mocking diction? (And of course, even Yeats is self-mocking there, though gorgeously so.) Does anyone have more examples or counter-examples? Jerry On 7/1/2011 9:55 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > And I started to read this with about the same "I don't care for X, > but . . ." response, but later decided, "no, wait, I really _don't_ > like this poem!" But I finished it, and now I'm just ambivalent. It > feels like Frank O'Hara, grown old, tired, and beaten from teaching > workshops. Except that when O'Hara plays with the rhythms of everyday > speech, he isn't playing, as Collins seems to be playing here. Perhaps > his poem is a trap to make me catch myself doing that. But as a trap, > it's feeble. I wonder about the tendency to imitate the language of > (people who employ) flat prosaic speech in poems about workshops. Do > you know this one by Stephen Dunn? > > DECORUM > > > She wrote, "They were making love > up against the gymnasium wall," > and another young woman in class > serious enough to smile, said > > "No, that's fucking, they must > have been fucking," to which many > agreed, pleased to have the proper > fit of word with act. > > But an older woman, a wife, a mother, > famous in the class for confusing grace > with decorum and carriage, > said the F-word would distract > > the reader, sensationalize the poem. > "Why can't what they were doing > just as easily be called making love?" > It was an intelligent complaint, > > and the class proceeded to debate > what's fucking, what's making love, > and the importance of context, tact, > and bon mot. I leaned toward those > > who favored fucking; they were funnier > and seemed to have more experience > with the happy varieties of their subject. > But then a young man said, now believing > > he had permission, "What's the difference, > you fuck 'em, and you call it making love; > you tell 'em what they want to hear." > The class jeered, and another man said > > "You're the kind of guy who gives fucking > a bad name," and I remembered how fuck > gets dirty as it moves reptilian > out of certain minds, certain mouths. > > The young woman whose poem it was, > small-boned and small voiced, > said she had no objection to fucking, > but these people were making love, it was > > her poem and she herself up against > that gymnasium wall, and it felt like love, > and the hell with all of us. > There was silence. The class turned > > to me, their teacher, who they hoped > could clarify, perhaps ease things. > I told them I disliked the word fucking > in a poem, but that fucking > > might be right in this instance, yet > I was unsure now, I couldn't decide. > A tear formed and moved down > the poet's cheek. I said I was sure > > only of "gymnasium," sure it was > the wrong choice, making the act seem > too public, more vulgar than she wished. > How about "boat house?" I said. > > And here's one of mine, if I can get it to print (it's got a tetchy > graphic in it), a prose poem that does some of the same things, I think.: > > The Flagellants > > > So we?re on Robert Frost and I?m trying to explain how if you want to > find religious connections in poetry, if that?s > what you really want to do, then maybe you?d be better off looking at > the mystical tradition than the public institutional > church for a sense of what?s happening, and I talked about the > prophetic tradition and how the mystical and the > institutional get fused in the flagellants of the middle ages and this > kid starts snickering, I?d call it snickering, but he > was respectful in his way, he was chuckling, sort of, so I said, > ?what?? and he said, did you say flatulence? The flatulence > of the middle ages? I thought, that works, too, sort of. Which is what > I said, and then they all laughed at him. ?No, no,? I > said, ?I mean it, it?s like the oracle at Delphi, the tripod and > divine afflatus, the most holy is fullest of hot air.? Some of > them looked a little strangely at that, but then they laughed again, > and the loudest was the kid who said it first. I saw > that things were out of hand, so I declared a break. I took my time to > let things cool down, and when I came back someone > had written on the blackboard in letters a yard high, > > > That?s why this game?s worth playing, so I let them go early, and I > hope they don?t forget it. > > > > Best, > > Jerry > > > On 7/1/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: >> just saw this on Goodreads. >> I don't care for B Collins, but I enjoyed this -- >> Workshop >> By Billy Collins >> >> I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. >> It gets me right away because I?m in a workshop now >> so immediately the poem has my attention, >> like the Ancient Mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. >> >> >> And I like the first couple of stanzas, >> the way they establish this mode of self-pointing >> that runs through the whole poem >> and tells us that words are food thrown down >> on the ground for other words to eat. >> I can almost taste the tail of the snake >> in its own mouth, >> if you know what I mean. >> >> >> But what I?m not sure about is the voice, >> which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, >> but other times seems standoffish, >> professorial in the worst sense of the word >> like the poem is blowing pipe smoke in my face. >> But maybe that?s just what it wants to do. >> >> >> What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, >> especially the fourth one. >> I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges >> which gives me a very clear picture. >> And I really like how this drawbridge operator >> just appears out of the blue >> with his feet up on the iron railing >> and his fishing pole jigging?I like jigging? >> a hook in the slow industrial canal below. >> I love slow industrial canal below. All those l?s. >> >> >> Maybe it?s just me, >> but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. >> I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? >> And what?s an obbligato of snow? >> Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. >> At that point I?m lost. I need help. >> >> >> The other thing that throws me off, >> and maybe this is just me, >> is the way the scene keeps shifting around. >> First, we?re in this big aerodrome >> and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, >> which makes me think this could be a dream. >> Then he takes us into his garden, >> the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, >> though that?s nice, the coiling hose, >> but then I?m not sure where we?re supposed to be. >> The rain and the mint green light, >> that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? >> Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? >> There?s something about death going on here. >> >> >> In fact, I start to wonder if what we have here >> is really two poems, or three, or four, >> or possibly none. >> >> >> But then there?s that last stanza, my favorite. >> This is where the poem wins me back, >> especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. >> I mean we?ve all seen these images in cartoons before, >> but I still love the details he uses >> when he?s describing where he lives. >> The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, >> the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, >> the spool of thread for a table. >> I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work >> night after night collecting all these things >> while the people in the house were fast asleep, >> and that gives me a very strong feeling, >> a very powerful sense of something. >> But I don?t know if anyone else was feeling that. >> Maybe that was just me. >> Maybe that?s just the way I read it. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 5659 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jul 1 12:00:40 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 11:00:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Interesting set of questions raised in this thread. Disclaimer: I am both a teacher who sometimes conducts workshops and a fan of Billy Collins. But I have never much cottoned to this particular Collins poem, in part because, contrary to BC's frequent statements about letting the poem flare off in surprising directions, this one is utterly predictable, a one-note joke that goes on way too long. He's got his point about the shopworn language and approach of poetry workshops, yeah yeah, but after mocking such language in generally dull fashion, he just keeps on doing so. Blah. Dullness as satire. The poem also illustrates one of BC's less admirable traits, I think. Though I believe he may be retired now, he earned his bread for decades teaching introductory courses in literature and composition, and not at Stanford or Iowa, either. His students were thus not very privileged, and I strongly suspect not very conversant with Iowa Workshop cliches. This world almost never shows up in his poetry, and this particular poem doesn't ring true to me. So what exactly is BC satirizing here? A generalized sort of stereotypical workshop being run Elsewhere, and certainly not by Collins. Yet BC is/was a professor. So not only is BC biting the academic hand that feeds him, he's setting up a straw man to do it. I would love to know how Collins *actually* taught literature and writing, but to my knowledge he's never written much about that. A poem about his own flubs and doubts as a teacher, now that might be interesting. I also agree that teachers making fun of students in poems is one of worst kinds of vanity & glibness. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 13:24:15 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:24:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Stephen Jerry Billy: What appears to me The "happy variety of their subject"!!!! Both Stephen Dunn's piece and Jerry's are lovely. Joy in the words and the mind which well abides in them. Whereas Collins' piece is a flatness cast into the seemingly ever-present realm of dullness, beginning by the way, with the title. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 13:44:38 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 19:44:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: His home is open to visitors, as a matter of fact when I went to Lisboa there was a small exhibit. The area, although ghettosized in a contemporary sense (cars, traffic lights, restaurants) still conserved something of Pessoa's times, and I could in a certain way imagine him walking to his office, and having a coffee in a typical Portuguese bar with the mirrors on the walls and the big newspapers you read on the stands you hold in your hands, and time to converse, to walk around. I was there probably 15 years ago. They had opened an exceptional Arts Center, enormous, at the end of town, then there was the market close to the harbor. It was - back then - a dimension I found interesting and still livable. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. > Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] More orange > > And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great guy! > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: > >> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >> http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm >> >> I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list >> >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >> >> Gotta love >> Frank O'Hara >> >> >> >> --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) >> >> >> >> >> Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here >> to >> "like" my FB page. Thanks! >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jforjames >> To: new-poetry >> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange >> >> Why I Am Not a Painter >> >> I am not a painter, I am a poet. >> Why? I think I would rather be >> a painter, but I am not. Well, >> >> for instance, Mike Goldberg >> is starting a painting. I drop in. >> "Sit down and have a drink" he >> says. I drink; we drink. I look >> up. "You have SARDINES in it." >> "Yes, it needed something there." >> "Oh." I go and the days go by >> and I drop in again. The painting >> is going on, and I go, and the days >> go by. I drop in. The painting is >> finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >> All that's left is just >> letters, "It was too much," Mike says. >> >> But me? One day I am thinking of >> a color: orange. I write a line >> about orange. Pretty soon it is a >> whole page of words, not lines. >> Then another page. There should be >> so much more, not of orange, of >> words, of how terrible orange is >> and life. Days go by. It is even in >> prose, I am a real poet. My poem >> is finished and I haven't mentioned >> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES >> >> >> Frank O'Hara >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen russell >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now >> online >> >> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by >> the great/late Sorrentino: >> >> *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery >> *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press >> *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert >> Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation >> on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an >> intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & >> Moon Press >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Halvard Johnson >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >> now online >> >> The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do >> with HSR anymore. >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a >>> little, please, :-) >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 13:52:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:52:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ever been to Petrarch's house, Anny? "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > His home is open to visitors, as a matter of fact when I went to Lisboa > there was a small exhibit. The area, although ghettosized in a contemporary > sense (cars, traffic lights, restaurants) still conserved something of > Pessoa's times, and I could in a certain way imagine him walking to his > office, and having a coffee in a typical Portuguese bar with the mirrors on > the walls and the big newspapers you read on the stands you hold in your > hands, and time to converse, to walk around. > I was there probably 15 years ago. They had opened an exceptional Arts > Center, enormous, at the end of town, then there was the market close to the > harbor. It was - back then - a dimension I found interesting and still > livable. > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. >> Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >> >> And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great >> guy! >> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: >> >>> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >>> http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm >>> >>> I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>> >>> Gotta love >>> Frank O'Hara >>> >>> >>> >>> --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here >>> to >>> "like" my FB page. Thanks! >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: jforjames >>> To: new-poetry >>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange >>> >>> Why I Am Not a Painter >>> >>> I am not a painter, I am a poet. >>> Why? I think I would rather be >>> a painter, but I am not. Well, >>> >>> for instance, Mike Goldberg >>> is starting a painting. I drop in. >>> "Sit down and have a drink" he >>> says. I drink; we drink. I look >>> up. "You have SARDINES in it." >>> "Yes, it needed something there." >>> "Oh." I go and the days go by >>> and I drop in again. The painting >>> is going on, and I go, and the days >>> go by. I drop in. The painting is >>> finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >>> All that's left is just >>> letters, "It was too much," Mike says. >>> >>> But me? One day I am thinking of >>> a color: orange. I write a line >>> about orange. Pretty soon it is a >>> whole page of words, not lines. >>> Then another page. There should be >>> so much more, not of orange, of >>> words, of how terrible orange is >>> and life. Days go by. It is even in >>> prose, I am a real poet. My poem >>> is finished and I haven't mentioned >>> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >>> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >>> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES >>> >>> >>> Frank O'Hara >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: stephen russell >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now >>> online >>> >>> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by >>> the great/late Sorrentino: >>> >>> *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery >>> *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press >>> *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert >>> Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation >>> on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an >>> intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & >>> Moon Press >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Halvard Johnson >>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>> *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >>> now online >>> >>> The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do >>> with HSR anymore. >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down a >>>> little, please, :-) >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jul 1 14:22:28 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:22:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We all live in Petrarch's house... c On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ever been to Petrarch's house, Anny? > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> His home is open to visitors, as a matter of fact when I went to Lisboa >> there was a small exhibit. The area, although ghettosized in a contemporary >> sense (cars, traffic lights, restaurants) still conserved something of >> Pessoa's times, and I could in a certain way imagine him walking to his >> office, and having a coffee in a typical Portuguese bar with the mirrors on >> the walls and the big newspapers you read on the stands you hold in your >> hands, and time to converse, to walk around. >> I was there probably 15 years ago. They had opened an exceptional Arts >> Center, enormous, at the end of town, then there was the market close to the >> harbor. It was - back then - a dimension I found interesting and still >> livable. >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. >>> Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>> >>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>> *Sent:* Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>> >>> And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great >>> guy! >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >>>> http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm >>>> >>>> I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list >>>> >>>> Finnegan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>> >>>> Gotta love >>>> Frank O'Hara >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here >>>> to >>>> "like" my FB page. Thanks! >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: jforjames >>>> To: new-poetry >>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>> >>>> Why I Am Not a Painter >>>> >>>> I am not a painter, I am a poet. >>>> Why? I think I would rather be >>>> a painter, but I am not. Well, >>>> >>>> for instance, Mike Goldberg >>>> is starting a painting. I drop in. >>>> "Sit down and have a drink" he >>>> says. I drink; we drink. I look >>>> up. "You have SARDINES in it." >>>> "Yes, it needed something there." >>>> "Oh." I go and the days go by >>>> and I drop in again. The painting >>>> is going on, and I go, and the days >>>> go by. I drop in. The painting is >>>> finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >>>> All that's left is just >>>> letters, "It was too much," Mike says. >>>> >>>> But me? One day I am thinking of >>>> a color: orange. I write a line >>>> about orange. Pretty soon it is a >>>> whole page of words, not lines. >>>> Then another page. There should be >>>> so much more, not of orange, of >>>> words, of how terrible orange is >>>> and life. Days go by. It is even in >>>> prose, I am a real poet. My poem >>>> is finished and I haven't mentioned >>>> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >>>> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >>>> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank O'Hara >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: stephen russell >>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- now >>>> online >>>> >>>> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection by >>>> the great/late Sorrentino: >>>> >>>> *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery >>>> *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press >>>> *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert >>>> Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation >>>> on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an >>>> intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & >>>> Moon Press >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Halvard Johnson >>>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>>> *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >>>> now online >>>> >>>> The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do >>>> with HSR anymore. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>> --David Shields >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down >>>>> a little, please, :-) >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 14:48:13 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:48:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So to speak. But not with Petrarch's cat, stuffed and mounted above the lintel of his study's door. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arqu%C3%A0_Petrarca "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > We all live in Petrarch's house... > > c > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Ever been to Petrarch's house, Anny? >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> His home is open to visitors, as a matter of fact when I went to Lisboa >>> there was a small exhibit. The area, although ghettosized in a contemporary >>> sense (cars, traffic lights, restaurants) still conserved something of >>> Pessoa's times, and I could in a certain way imagine him walking to his >>> office, and having a coffee in a typical Portuguese bar with the mirrors on >>> the walls and the big newspapers you read on the stands you hold in your >>> hands, and time to converse, to walk around. >>> I was there probably 15 years ago. They had opened an exceptional Arts >>> Center, enormous, at the end of town, then there was the market close to the >>> harbor. It was - back then - a dimension I found interesting and still >>> livable. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, stephen russell < >>> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. >>>> Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>> >>>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>>> *Sent:* Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>> >>>> And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great >>>> guy! >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: >>>> >>>>> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >>>>> http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm >>>>> >>>>> I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list >>>>> >>>>> Finnegan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >>>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>>> >>>>> Gotta love >>>>> Frank O'Hara >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here >>>>> to >>>>> "like" my FB page. Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: jforjames >>>>> To: new-poetry >>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>>> >>>>> Why I Am Not a Painter >>>>> >>>>> I am not a painter, I am a poet. >>>>> Why? I think I would rather be >>>>> a painter, but I am not. Well, >>>>> >>>>> for instance, Mike Goldberg >>>>> is starting a painting. I drop in. >>>>> "Sit down and have a drink" he >>>>> says. I drink; we drink. I look >>>>> up. "You have SARDINES in it." >>>>> "Yes, it needed something there." >>>>> "Oh." I go and the days go by >>>>> and I drop in again. The painting >>>>> is going on, and I go, and the days >>>>> go by. I drop in. The painting is >>>>> finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >>>>> All that's left is just >>>>> letters, "It was too much," Mike says. >>>>> >>>>> But me? One day I am thinking of >>>>> a color: orange. I write a line >>>>> about orange. Pretty soon it is a >>>>> whole page of words, not lines. >>>>> Then another page. There should be >>>>> so much more, not of orange, of >>>>> words, of how terrible orange is >>>>> and life. Days go by. It is even in >>>>> prose, I am a real poet. My poem >>>>> is finished and I haven't mentioned >>>>> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >>>>> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >>>>> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Frank O'Hara >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: stephen russell >>>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>>> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >>>>> now online >>>>> >>>>> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection >>>>> by the great/late Sorrentino: >>>>> >>>>> *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery >>>>> *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press >>>>> *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert >>>>> Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation >>>>> on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an >>>>> intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & >>>>> Moon Press >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Halvard Johnson >>>>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>>>> *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >>>>> now online >>>>> >>>>> The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to do >>>>> with HSR anymore. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>> --David Shields >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it down >>>>>> a little, please, :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 15:32:19 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:32:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was never here: http://padovacultura.padovanet.it/homepage-6.0/2004/03/casa_del_petrarca.html which would be close enough but I think I did go to this village once, some time ago: http://www.venicesunset.it/?p=1184&lang=en We should organize a world tour for the *New Poetry* aficionados. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > So to speak. But not with Petrarch's cat, stuffed and mounted above the > lintel of his study's door. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arqu%C3%A0_Petrarca > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> We all live in Petrarch's house... >> >> c >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> Ever been to Petrarch's house, Anny? >>> >>> >>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>> --David Shields >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> His home is open to visitors, as a matter of fact when I went to Lisboa >>>> there was a small exhibit. The area, although ghettosized in a contemporary >>>> sense (cars, traffic lights, restaurants) still conserved something of >>>> Pessoa's times, and I could in a certain way imagine him walking to his >>>> office, and having a coffee in a typical Portuguese bar with the mirrors on >>>> the walls and the big newspapers you read on the stands you hold in your >>>> hands, and time to converse, to walk around. >>>> I was there probably 15 years ago. They had opened an exceptional Arts >>>> Center, enormous, at the end of town, then there was the market close to the >>>> harbor. It was - back then - a dimension I found interesting and still >>>> livable. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, stephen russell < >>>> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds as though you speak from personal experience. >>>>> Did you meet Pessoa, or know him, Anny? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>>> >>>>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>>>> *Sent:* Thu, June 30, 2011 4:36:46 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>>> >>>>> And do visit his home, astrological designs all around, he was a great >>>>> guy! >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:25 AM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Say hello to this guy for me, Mill, while you're there... >>>>>> http://www.travel-in-portugal.com/photos/img143.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> I dub thee international correspondent for the NewPo list >>>>>> >>>>>> Finnegan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Millicent Borges Accardi >>>>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 5:26 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>>>> >>>>>> Gotta love >>>>>> Frank O'Hara >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --Mill (reporting from Lisboa) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Help me get to 400 by July 4th. Click here >>>>>> to >>>>>> "like" my FB page. Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: jforjames >>>>>> To: new-poetry >>>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 11:05 pm >>>>>> Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange >>>>>> >>>>>> Why I Am Not a Painter >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not a painter, I am a poet. >>>>>> Why? I think I would rather be >>>>>> a painter, but I am not. Well, >>>>>> >>>>>> for instance, Mike Goldberg >>>>>> is starting a painting. I drop in. >>>>>> "Sit down and have a drink" he >>>>>> says. I drink; we drink. I look >>>>>> up. "You have SARDINES in it." >>>>>> "Yes, it needed something there." >>>>>> "Oh." I go and the days go by >>>>>> and I drop in again. The painting >>>>>> is going on, and I go, and the days >>>>>> go by. I drop in. The painting is >>>>>> finished. "Where's SARDINES?" >>>>>> All that's left is just >>>>>> letters, "It was too much," Mike says. >>>>>> >>>>>> But me? One day I am thinking of >>>>>> a color: orange. I write a line >>>>>> about orange. Pretty soon it is a >>>>>> whole page of words, not lines. >>>>>> Then another page. There should be >>>>>> so much more, not of orange, of >>>>>> words, of how terrible orange is >>>>>> and life. Days go by. It is even in >>>>>> prose, I am a real poet. My poem >>>>>> is finished and I haven't mentioned >>>>>> orange yet. It's twelve poems, I call >>>>>> it ORANGES. And one day in a gallery >>>>>> I see Mike's painting, called SARDINES >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank O'Hara >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: stephen russell >>>>>> To: NewPoetry List >>>>>> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 2:36 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) -- >>>>>> now online >>>>>> >>>>>> Not related to the color of HSR, but this is an exellent collection >>>>>> by the great/late Sorrentino: >>>>>> >>>>>> *Author:* *Sorrentino, Gilbert* *Title:* The Orangery >>>>>> *Publisher:* Sun & Moon Press >>>>>> *Pub. Date:* Fall 1995 *Description:* The Orangery is one of Gilbert >>>>>> Sorrentino's most memorable collections of poetry. Each poem is a variation >>>>>> on "orange" which appears and reappears as a color, a fruit, a memory, an >>>>>> intrusion, a word seeking a rhyme, a presence expected and awaited. - Sun & >>>>>> Moon Press >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Halvard Johnson >>>>>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>>>>> *Sent:* Tue, June 28, 2011 2:18:58 PM >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review #24 (Summer 2011) >>>>>> -- now online >>>>>> >>>>>> The orange will remain, as always, Anny. Not that I have anything to >>>>>> do with HSR anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >>>>>> --David Shields >>>>>> >>>>>> Hal >>>>>> >>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hal, please allow me to say that that orange is too much, tune it >>>>>>> down a little, please, :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson < >>>>>>> halvard at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can find it here --> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Anny Ballardini >>>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>>> star! >>>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>>> >>>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>>> Giovenale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 16:18:47 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1309551527.32985.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> True: O'Hara is spontaneous, fresh, while Collins is mannered, and, upon rereading, a little dull, though not dull in wit. But the wit, the irony, also feels forced. The poem sounds as though it came from the classroom. It' polite, clever,?in a?"self-mocking" sort of way. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 11:29:10 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Workshop Sorry, I see belatedly that the poem I sent earlier (mine, not Dunn's) was about a class, but not about a workshop. My point, such as it was, remains the same--that at least sometimes the language contemporary teacher-poets use to describe classroom experience feels to me weirdly artificial, and not in a good way. Are we all so intimidated by "Among School Children" that we flee to a self-mocking diction? (And of course, even Yeats is self-mocking there, though gorgeously so.) Does anyone have more examples or counter-examples? Jerry On 7/1/2011 9:55 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: And I started to read this with about the same "I don't care for X, but . . ." response, but later decided, "no, wait, I really _don't_ like this poem!" But I finished it, and now I'm just ambivalent. It feels like Frank O'Hara, grown old, tired, and beaten from teaching workshops. Except that when O'Hara plays with the rhythms of everyday speech, he isn't playing, as Collins seems to be playing here. Perhaps his poem is a trap to make me catch myself doing that. But as a trap, it's feeble. I wonder about the tendency to imitate the language of (people who employ) flat prosaic speech in poems about workshops. Do you know this one by Stephen Dunn? > > >DECORUM? > >She wrote, "They were making love >up against the gymnasium wall," >and another young woman in class >serious enough to smile, said >? >"No, that's fucking, they must >have been fucking," to which many >agreed, pleased to have the proper >fit of word with act. >? >But an older woman, a wife, a mother, >famous in the class for confusing grace >with decorum and carriage, >said the F-word would distract >? >the reader, sensationalize the poem. >"Why can't what they were doing >just as easily be called making love?" >It was an intelligent complaint, >? >and the class proceeded to debate >what's fucking, what's making love, >and the importance of context, tact, >and bon mot. I leaned toward those >? >who favored fucking; they were funnier >and seemed to have more experience >with the happy varieties of their subject. >But then a young man said, now believing >? >he had permission, "What's the difference, >you fuck 'em, and you call it making love; >you tell 'em what they want to hear." >The class jeered, and another man said >? >"You're the kind of guy who gives fucking >a bad name," and I remembered how fuck >gets dirty as it moves reptilian >out of certain minds, certain mouths. >? >The young woman whose poem it was, >small-boned and small voiced, >said she had no objection to fucking, >but these people were making love, it was >? >her poem and she herself up against >that gymnasium wall, and it felt like love, >and the hell with all of us. >There was silence. The class turned >? >to me, their teacher, who they hoped >could clarify, perhaps ease things. >I told them I disliked the word fucking >in a poem, but that fucking >? >might be right in this instance, yet >I was unsure now, I couldn't decide. >A tear formed and moved down >the poet's cheek. I said I was sure >? >only of "gymnasium," sure it was >the wrong choice, making the act seem >too public, more vulgar than she wished. >How about "boat house?" I said. >? >And here's one of mine, if I can get it to print (it's got a tetchy graphic in >it), a prose poem that does some of the same things, I think.: > > >The Flagellants >? > >So we?re on Robert Frost and I?m trying to explain how if you want to find >religious connections in poetry, if that?s > >what you really want to do, then maybe you?d be better off looking at the >mystical tradition than the public institutional > >church for a sense of what?s happening, and I talked about the prophetic >tradition and how the mystical and the >institutional get fused in the flagellants of the middle ages and this kid >starts snickering, I?d call it snickering, but he > >was respectful in his way, he was chuckling, sort of, so I said, ?what?? and he >said, did you say flatulence? The flatulence > >of the middle ages? I thought, that works, too, sort of. Which is what I said, >and then they all laughed at him. ?No, no,? I >?said, ?I mean it, it?s like the oracle at Delphi, the tripod and divine >afflatus, the most holy is fullest of hot air.? Some of > >them looked a little strangely at that, but then they laughed again, and the >loudest was the kid who said it first. I saw > >that things were out of hand, so I declared a break. I took my time to let >things cool down, and when I came back someone > >had written on the blackboard in letters a yard high, >? > >That?s why this game?s worth playing, so I let them go early, and I hope they >don?t forget it. > >Best, > >Jerry > > >On 7/1/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: >just saw this on Goodreads. >>I don't care for B Collins, but I enjoyed this -- >> >> >>Workshop >>By Billy Collins >> >>I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. >>It gets me right away because I?m in a workshop now >>so immediately the poem has my attention, >>like the Ancient Mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. >> >> >>And I like the first couple of stanzas, >>the way they establish this mode of self-pointing >>that runs through the whole poem >>and tells us that words are food thrown down >>on the ground for other words to eat. >>I can almost taste the tail of the snake >>in its own mouth, >>if you know what I mean. >> >> >>But what I?m not sure about is the voice, >>which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, >>but other times seems standoffish, >>professorial in the worst sense of the word >>like the poem is blowing pipe smoke in my face. >>But maybe that?s just what it wants to do. >> >> >>What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, >>especially the fourth one. >>I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges >>which gives me a very clear picture. >>And I really like how this drawbridge operator >>just appears out of the blue >>with his feet up on the iron railing >>and his fishing pole jigging?I like jigging? >>a hook in the slow industrial canal below. >>I love slow industrial canal below. All those l?s. >> >> >>Maybe it?s just me, >>but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. >>I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? >>And what?s an obbligato of snow? >>Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. >>At that point I?m lost. I need help. >> >> >>The other thing that throws me off, >>and maybe this is just me, >>is the way the scene keeps shifting around. >>First, we?re in this big aerodrome >>and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, >>which makes me think this could be a dream. >>Then he takes us into his garden, >>the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, >>though that?s nice, the coiling hose, >>but then I?m not sure where we?re supposed to be. >>The rain and the mint green light, >>that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? >>Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? >>There?s something about death going on here. >> >> >>In fact, I start to wonder if what we have here >>is really two poems, or three, or four, >>or possibly none. >> >> >>But then there?s that last stanza, my favorite. >>This is where the poem wins me back, >>especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. >>I mean we?ve all seen these images in cartoons before, >>but I still love the details he uses >>when he?s describing where he lives. >>The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, >>the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, >>the spool of thread for a table. >>I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work >>night after night collecting all these things >>while the people in the house were fast asleep, >>and that gives me a very strong feeling, >>a very powerful sense of something. >>But I don?t know if anyone else was feeling that. >>Maybe that was just me. >>Maybe that?s just the way I read it. >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 5659 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 16:45:50 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Workshop In-Reply-To: References: <1309528659.29684.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E0DDFD3.1070101@louisiana.edu> <4E0DE7C6.2080701@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1309553150.79372.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I recall some Billy Collins comments about teaching, though not well enough to paraphrase accurately. I'm almost certain that he frowns on anything considered experimental. As for the poem I found on Goodreads, Collins, it seems, was simply poking fun at the tone of workshops rather than saying anything pointed about a particular?student. If that had been the case, the poem would have been offensive. Still, I'll look at the thing again, though I've already lost interest (the poem, after all, isn't that exciting). Once, at the Library of Congress, I heard?Collins introduce the poet?Lucille Clifton. Collins went on to compare Clifton to Emily Dickenson. Those two poets have nothing in common as far as I can tell, and Collins did?little to enlighten the audience as to what was similiar?about their poetics. A poet Laureate can say pretty much anything and get away with it. Or so it seems. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 12:00:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Workshop Interesting set of questions raised in this thread. ? Disclaimer: I am both a teacher who sometimes conducts workshops and a fan of Billy Collins. ?But I have never much cottoned to this particular Collins poem, in part because, contrary to BC's frequent statements about letting the poem flare off in surprising directions, this one is utterly predictable, a one-note joke that goes on way too long. ?He's got his point about the shopworn language and approach of poetry workshops, yeah yeah, but after mocking such language in generally dull fashion, he just keeps on doing so. ?Blah. ?Dullness as satire. ? The poem also illustrates one of BC's less admirable traits, I think. ?Though I believe he may be retired now, he earned his bread for decades teaching introductory courses in literature and composition, and not at Stanford or Iowa, either. ?His students were thus not very privileged, and I strongly suspect not very conversant with Iowa Workshop cliches. ?This world almost never shows up in his poetry, and this particular poem doesn't ring true to me. ?So what exactly is BC satirizing here? ?A generalized sort of stereotypical workshop being run Elsewhere, and certainly not by Collins. ?Yet BC is/was a professor. ?So not only is BC biting the academic hand that feeds him, he's setting up a straw man to do it. ?I would love to know how Collins *actually* taught literature and writing, but to my knowledge he's never written much about that. ?A poem about his own flubs and doubts as a teacher, now that might be interesting. I also agree that teachers making fun of students in poems is one of worst kinds of vanity & glibness. ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 17:17:27 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Workshop Message-ID: <1309555047.62528.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> O'Hara has a spontaneous, fresh sound. Collins?sounds?mannered. ?In fact,?the Workshop poem?has a workshop sound. It worked well for me once. It doesn't hold up as well on repeated readings. Which is why I've never owned a book by Collins. They're best read in magizines that get tossed. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 11:29:10 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Workshop Sorry, I see belatedly that the poem I sent earlier (mine, not Dunn's) was about a class, but not about a workshop. My point, such as it was, remains the same--that at least sometimes the language contemporary teacher-poets use to describe classroom experience feels to me weirdly artificial, and not in a good way. Are we all so intimidated by "Among School Children" that we flee to a self-mocking diction? (And of course, even Yeats is self-mocking there, though gorgeously so.) Does anyone have more examples or counter-examples? Jerry On 7/1/2011 9:55 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: And I started to read this with about the same "I don't care for X, but . . ." response, but later decided, "no, wait, I really _don't_ like this poem!" But I finished it, and now I'm just ambivalent. It feels like Frank O'Hara, grown old, tired, and beaten from teaching workshops. Except that when O'Hara plays with the rhythms of everyday speech, he isn't playing, as Collins seems to be playing here. Perhaps his poem is a trap to make me catch myself doing that. But as a trap, it's feeble. I wonder about the tendency to imitate the language of (people who employ) flat prosaic speech in poems about workshops. Do you know this one by Stephen Dunn? > > >DECORUM? > >She wrote, "They were making love >up against the gymnasium wall," >and another young woman in class >serious enough to smile, said >? >"No, that's fucking, they must >have been fucking," to which many >agreed, pleased to have the proper >fit of word with act. >? >But an older woman, a wife, a mother, >famous in the class for confusing grace >with decorum and carriage, >said the F-word would distract >? >the reader, sensationalize the poem. >"Why can't what they were doing >just as easily be called making love?" >It was an intelligent complaint, >? >and the class proceeded to debate >what's fucking, what's making love, >and the importance of context, tact, >and bon mot. I leaned toward those >? >who favored fucking; they were funnier >and seemed to have more experience >with the happy varieties of their subject. >But then a young man said, now believing >? >he had permission, "What's the difference, >you fuck 'em, and you call it making love; >you tell 'em what they want to hear." >The class jeered, and another man said >? >"You're the kind of guy who gives fucking >a bad name," and I remembered how fuck >gets dirty as it moves reptilian >out of certain minds, certain mouths. >? >The young woman whose poem it was, >small-boned and small voiced, >said she had no objection to fucking, >but these people were making love, it was >? >her poem and she herself up against >that gymnasium wall, and it felt like love, >and the hell with all of us. >There was silence. The class turned >? >to me, their teacher, who they hoped >could clarify, perhaps ease things. >I told them I disliked the word fucking >in a poem, but that fucking >? >might be right in this instance, yet >I was unsure now, I couldn't decide. >A tear formed and moved down >the poet's cheek. I said I was sure >? >only of "gymnasium," sure it was >the wrong choice, making the act seem >too public, more vulgar than she wished. >How about "boat house?" I said. >? >And here's one of mine, if I can get it to print (it's got a tetchy graphic in >it), a prose poem that does some of the same things, I think.: > > >The Flagellants >? > >So we?re on Robert Frost and I?m trying to explain how if you want to find >religious connections in poetry, if that?s > >what you really want to do, then maybe you?d be better off looking at the >mystical tradition than the public institutional > >church for a sense of what?s happening, and I talked about the prophetic >tradition and how the mystical and the >institutional get fused in the flagellants of the middle ages and this kid >starts snickering, I?d call it snickering, but he > >was respectful in his way, he was chuckling, sort of, so I said, ?what?? and he >said, did you say flatulence? The flatulence > >of the middle ages? I thought, that works, too, sort of. Which is what I said, >and then they all laughed at him. ?No, no,? I >?said, ?I mean it, it?s like the oracle at Delphi, the tripod and divine >afflatus, the most holy is fullest of hot air.? Some of > >them looked a little strangely at that, but then they laughed again, and the >loudest was the kid who said it first. I saw > >that things were out of hand, so I declared a break. I took my time to let >things cool down, and when I came back someone > >had written on the blackboard in letters a yard high, >? > >That?s why this game?s worth playing, so I let them go early, and I hope they >don?t forget it. > >Best, > >Jerry > > >On 7/1/2011 8:57 AM, stephen russell wrote: >just saw this on Goodreads. >>I don't care for B Collins, but I enjoyed this -- >> >> >>Workshop >>By Billy Collins >> >>I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. >>It gets me right away because I?m in a workshop now >>so immediately the poem has my attention, >>like the Ancient Mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. >> >> >>And I like the first couple of stanzas, >>the way they establish this mode of self-pointing >>that runs through the whole poem >>and tells us that words are food thrown down >>on the ground for other words to eat. >>I can almost taste the tail of the snake >>in its own mouth, >>if you know what I mean. >> >> >>But what I?m not sure about is the voice, >>which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, >>but other times seems standoffish, >>professorial in the worst sense of the word >>like the poem is blowing pipe smoke in my face. >>But maybe that?s just what it wants to do. >> >> >>What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, >>especially the fourth one. >>I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges >>which gives me a very clear picture. >>And I really like how this drawbridge operator >>just appears out of the blue >>with his feet up on the iron railing >>and his fishing pole jigging?I like jigging? >>a hook in the slow industrial canal below. >>I love slow industrial canal below. All those l?s. >> >> >>Maybe it?s just me, >>but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. >>I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? >>And what?s an obbligato of snow? >>Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. >>At that point I?m lost. I need help. >> >> >>The other thing that throws me off, >>and maybe this is just me, >>is the way the scene keeps shifting around. >>First, we?re in this big aerodrome >>and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, >>which makes me think this could be a dream. >>Then he takes us into his garden, >>the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, >>though that?s nice, the coiling hose, >>but then I?m not sure where we?re supposed to be. >>The rain and the mint green light, >>that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? >>Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? >>There?s something about death going on here. >> >> >>In fact, I start to wonder if what we have here >>is really two poems, or three, or four, >>or possibly none. >> >> >>But then there?s that last stanza, my favorite. >>This is where the poem wins me back, >>especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. >>I mean we?ve all seen these images in cartoons before, >>but I still love the details he uses >>when he?s describing where he lives. >>The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, >>the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, >>the spool of thread for a table. >>I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work >>night after night collecting all these things >>while the people in the house were fast asleep, >>and that gives me a very strong feeling, >>a very powerful sense of something. >>But I don?t know if anyone else was feeling that. >>Maybe that was just me. >>Maybe that?s just the way I read it. >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 5659 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 17:23:10 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:23:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] More orange In-Reply-To: References: <1309286191.40974.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE04A296B48C72-1A98-42C43@webmail-d044.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04BA4CE34597-21F4-31848@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <8CE04E41170E0B7-16B4-15B23@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <1309527969.43739.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I was never here: > > http://padovacultura.padovanet.it/homepage-6.0/2004/03/casa_del_petrarca.html > > which would be close enough > but I think I did go to this village once, some time ago: > http://www.venicesunset.it/?p=1184&lang=en I could easily settle in a village like that. I also like the charmingly awkward translation. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 16:17:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Jean Rhys by Derek Walcott Message-ID: <1309637846.15940.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & the guy paints ... JEAN RHYS By Derek Walcott In their faint photographs Mottled with chemicals, Like the left hand of some spinster aunt, They have drifted to the edge Of verandahs in Whistlerian White, their jungle turned tea-brown? Even its spiked palms? Their features pale, To be penciled in: Bone-collared gentlemen With spiked moustaches And their wives embayed in the wickerwork Armchairs, all looking coloured From the distance of a century Beginning to groan sideways from the axe stroke! Their bay horses blacken Like spaniels, the front lawn a beige Carpet, brown moonlight and a moon So sallow, so pharmaceutical That her face is a feverish child?s, Some malarial angel Whose grave still cowers Under a fury of bush, a mania of wild yams wrangling to hide her from ancestral churchyards. And the sigh of that child Is white as an orchid On a crusted log In the bush of Dominica, A V of Chinese white Meant for the beat of a seagull Over a sepia souvenir of Cornwall, As the white hush between two sentences. Sundays! Their furnace Of boredom after church. A maiden aunt canoes through lilies of clouds In a Carib hammock, to a hymn?s metronome, And the child on the vanished lion-footed couch Sees the hills dip and straighten with each lurch. The green-leaved uproar of the century Turns dim as the Atlantic, a rumourous haze Behind the lime trees, breakers Advancing in decorous, pleated lace, The cement grindstone of the afternoon Turns slowly, sharpening her senses, The bay below is green as calalu, stewing Sargasso. In that fierce hush Between Dominican mountains The child expects a sound From a butterfly clipping itself to a bush Like a gold earring to a black maid?s ear? One who goes down to the village, visiting, Whose pink dress wilts like a flower between the limes. There are logs Wrinkled like the hand of an old woman Who wrote with a fine courtesy to that world When grace was common as malaria, When the as lanterns? hiss on the verandah Drew the aunts out like moths Doomed to be pressed in a book, to fall Into the brown oblivion of an album, Embroiderers of silence For whom the arches of the Thames, Parliament?s needles, And the petit-point reflections of London Bridge Fade like the hammock cushions from the sun, Where one night A child stares at the windless candle flame From the corner of a lion-footed couch At the erect white light, Her right hand married to Jane Eyre Foreseeing that her own white wedding dress Will be white paper. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 16:58:41 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 13:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Jean Rhys by Derek Walcott In-Reply-To: <1309637846.15940.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1309637846.15940.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1309640321.77510.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> did i mention anything about playwrighting. Walcott's a playwright, painter, poet. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, July 2, 2011 4:17:26 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Jean Rhys by Derek Walcott & the guy paints ... JEAN RHYS By Derek Walcott In their faint photographs Mottled with chemicals, Like the left hand of some spinster aunt, They have drifted to the edge Of verandahs in Whistlerian White, their jungle turned tea-brown? Even its spiked palms? Their features pale, To be penciled in: Bone-collared gentlemen With spiked moustaches And their wives embayed in the wickerwork Armchairs, all looking coloured From the distance of a century Beginning to groan sideways from the axe stroke! Their bay horses blacken Like spaniels, the front lawn a beige Carpet, brown moonlight and a moon So sallow, so pharmaceutical That her face is a feverish child?s, Some malarial angel Whose grave still cowers Under a fury of bush, a mania of wild yams wrangling to hide her from ancestral churchyards. And the sigh of that child Is white as an orchid On a crusted log In the bush of Dominica, A V of Chinese white Meant for the beat of a seagull Over a sepia souvenir of Cornwall, As the white hush between two sentences. Sundays! Their furnace Of boredom after church. A maiden aunt canoes through lilies of clouds In a Carib hammock, to a hymn?s metronome, And the child on the vanished lion-footed couch Sees the hills dip and straighten with each lurch. The green-leaved uproar of the century Turns dim as the Atlantic, a rumourous haze Behind the lime trees, breakers Advancing in decorous, pleated lace, The cement grindstone of the afternoon Turns slowly, sharpening her senses, The bay below is green as calalu, stewing Sargasso. In that fierce hush Between Dominican mountains The child expects a sound From a butterfly clipping itself to a bush Like a gold earring to a black maid?s ear? One who goes down to the village, visiting, Whose pink dress wilts like a flower between the limes. There are logs Wrinkled like the hand of an old woman Who wrote with a fine courtesy to that world When grace was common as malaria, When the as lanterns? hiss on the verandah Drew the aunts out like moths Doomed to be pressed in a book, to fall Into the brown oblivion of an album, Embroiderers of silence For whom the arches of the Thames, Parliament?s needles, And the petit-point reflections of London Bridge Fade like the hammock cushions from the sun, Where one night A child stares at the windless candle flame From the corner of a lion-footed couch At the erect white light, Her right hand married to Jane Eyre Foreseeing that her own white wedding dress Will be white paper. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 18:49:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 00:49:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hemigway by A.E. Hotchner Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/opinion/02hotchner.html?_r=1&hp I recalled a favorite dictum of his: man can be destroyed, but not defeated. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 13:16:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:16:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Schneeregen in Mexico Message-ID: Schneeregen in Mexico I was just enjoying some cute Japanese bus stops designed to look like vegetables and pieces of fruit when the thought occurred to me that . . . well, that if this life isn?t interesting enough there might be another one somewhere that is; that if Babla doesn?t know what?s going on, then maybe someone somewhere does; that if Prokofiev isn?t quite your cup of tea, then maybe you should switch to coffee; that if they?d just get the schmutzig fahrbahn signs up more quickly, I wouldn?t always be getting cow poops so deep into the treads of the tires on my VW Passat that I can?t work them out with a toothpick; that if Freddy Herzog hadn?t brought barley beer to Mexico in the mid-nineteenth century, we might be drinking Pabst or Budweiser here today. "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 13:21:31 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:21:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Schneeregen in Mexico In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ain't it the truth? - Jim On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Schneeregen in Mexico > > I was just enjoying some cute Japanese bus stops designed to look like > vegetables and pieces of fruit when the thought occurred to me that . . . > well, that if this life isn?t interesting enough there might be another one > somewhere that is; that if Babla doesn?t know what?s going on, then maybe > someone somewhere does; that if Prokofiev isn?t quite your cup of tea, then > maybe you should switch to coffee; that if they?d just get the schmutzig > fahrbahn signs up more quickly, I wouldn?t always be getting cow poops so > deep into the treads of the tires on my VW Passat that I can?t work them out > with a toothpick; that if Freddy Herzog hadn?t brought barley beer to Mexico > in the mid-nineteenth century, we might be drinking Pabst or Budweiser here > today. > > > > > > "Reality cannot be copywrited." > --David Shields > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 14:00:48 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:00:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Schneeregen in Mexico In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, indeedy! "Reality cannot be copywrited." --David Shields Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:21 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Ain't it the truth? > > - Jim > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Schneeregen in Mexico >> >> I was just enjoying some cute Japanese bus stops designed to look like >> vegetables and pieces of fruit when the thought occurred to me that . . . >> well, that if this life isn?t interesting enough there might be another one >> somewhere that is; that if Babla doesn?t know what?s going on, then maybe >> someone somewhere does; that if Prokofiev isn?t quite your cup of tea, then >> maybe you should switch to coffee; that if they?d just get the schmutzig >> fahrbahn signs up more quickly, I wouldn?t always be getting cow poops so >> deep into the treads of the tires on my VW Passat that I can?t work them out >> with a toothpick; that if Freddy Herzog hadn?t brought barley beer to Mexico >> in the mid-nineteenth century, we might be drinking Pabst or Budweiser here >> today. >> >> >> >> >> >> "Reality cannot be copywrited." >> --David Shields >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Jul 4 00:22:08 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 21:22:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 12, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: damn > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > Subject: [New-Poetry] Jean Rhys by Derek Walcott > > & the guy paints ... > > > JEAN RHYS > By Derek Walcott > > In their faint photographs > Mottled with chemicals, > Like the left hand of some spinster aunt, > They have drifted to the edge > Of verandahs in Whistlerian > White, their jungle turned tea-brown? > Even its spiked palms? > Their features pale, > To be penciled in: > Bone-collared gentlemen > With spiked moustaches > And their wives embayed in the wickerwork > Armchairs, all looking coloured > From the distance of a century > Beginning to groan sideways from the axe stroke! > > Their bay horses blacken > Like spaniels, the front lawn a beige > Carpet, brown moonlight and a moon > So sallow, so pharmaceutical > That her face is a feverish child?s, > Some malarial angel > Whose grave still cowers > Under a fury of bush, > a mania of wild yams > wrangling to hide her from ancestral churchyards. > > And the sigh of that child > Is white as an orchid > On a crusted log > In the bush of Dominica, > A V of Chinese white > Meant for the beat of a seagull > Over a sepia souvenir of Cornwall, > As the white > hush between two sentences. > > Sundays! Their furnace > Of boredom after church. > A maiden aunt canoes through lilies of clouds > In a Carib hammock, to a hymn?s metronome, > And the child on the vanished lion-footed couch > Sees the hills dip and straighten with each lurch. > The green-leaved uproar of the century > Turns dim as the Atlantic, a rumourous haze > Behind the lime trees, breakers > Advancing in decorous, pleated lace, > The cement grindstone of the afternoon > Turns slowly, sharpening her senses, > The bay below is green as calalu, stewing Sargasso. > > In that fierce hush > Between Dominican mountains > The child expects a sound > From a butterfly clipping itself to a bush > Like a gold earring to a black maid?s ear? > One who goes down to the village, visiting, > Whose pink dress wilts like a flower between the limes. > > There are logs > Wrinkled like the hand of an old woman > Who wrote with a fine courtesy to that world > When grace was common as malaria, > When the as lanterns? hiss on the verandah > Drew the aunts out like moths > Doomed to be pressed in a book, to fall > Into the brown oblivion of an album, > Embroiderers of silence > For whom the arches of the Thames, > Parliament?s needles, > And the petit-point reflections of London Bridge > Fade like the hammock cushions from the sun, > Where one night > A child stares at the windless candle flame > From the corner of a lion-footed couch > At the erect white light, > Her right hand married to Jane Eyre > Foreseeing that her own white wedding dress > Will be white paper. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110702/7caf4b39/attachment-0001.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Mon Jul 4 15:04:15 2011 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?=) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Final Dance of Winter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1309806255.85531.YahooMailClassic@web161608.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Final Dance of Winter The whistling whisper of the wind Utters intelligible tittle tattle As it blows through the roof Ands its invisible hands makes the windows rattle. And snow is falling but is not staying Or maybe its just sleet It will not stay, just melt away For wet tonight is the street. Before the spring heralds the summer Before it gets the change The winter old is strong enough to be bold And demand one final dance. ? ? "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jul 4 21:54:37 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 21:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] for the ones I can tell this to Message-ID: <19143707.33796.1309830877042.JavaMail.portal@wapmail-coots.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey i kno tons of people make fat reduction their one objective as their NYE resolution, so i wanted to share this with my friends. I didnt tell a lot of ppl how i lost so much bcuz i wanted to try out this stuff b4 i advised it to anyone. This was all over news stations and I was nervious to try it but it really did work well for me. If youre are trying to lose weight for the new year i seriously recommend u try Facebook Sponsored site: http://apps.facebook.com/acaimagic/?coupon=nsyi2a8 From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jul 5 09:06:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 06:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Jose Saramago/memoirs Message-ID: <1309871188.49712.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... returns to fiction in his 50s -- Review: Jose Saramago?s memoir, ?Small Memories? * Text Size * Print * E-mail * Reprints By Michael S. Roth, Published: July?1 What are the chances? That a child surrounded by illiteracy, shuffling between his family?s new life in Lisbon and their roots in the countryside, will have such an intense appetite for words that he relishes pages from discarded newspapers, seizes on fragments of Moliere in a guidebook, and will one day create parallel worlds in which an entire nation goes blind, in which Jesus apologizes for God?s sins, in which death suddenly stops occurring. These worlds, fantastic as they are, turn out to be uncomfortably like our own. What are the chances? That a writer whose early efforts were greeted with harsh criticism (or mere silence) leaves the literary world behind to concentrate on journalism, returns in his 50s to pen novels that capture the imagination of European writers and critics, is celebrated for political bravery and artistic originality and crowned with the Nobel Prize for literature. 0 Comments * Weigh In * Corrections? ?Small Memories: A Memoir? by Jose Saramago (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. 139 pp. $22) Jose Saramago (1922-2010) was this child, this writer, and in ?Small Memories? he has provided us with a collection of memories of his childhood and adolescence. The recollections don?t follow a linear path but instead touch lightly on lives framed by poverty and frequent brutality. But in Saramago?s retrospective imagination, these are also lives infused with dignity, affection and deep connection. The author knows the tricks that memory can play, and on some matters he has taken great pains to test his recollections against recorded facts. Saramago is fascinated by the vagaries of remembrance, at one point wondering if certain memories he had were really his. Although his parents moved to Lisbon when he was just 18 months old (his father was to be a policeman), Jose continued to shuffle between Portugal?s capital and Azinhaga, his native village. The village was the ?cradle in which my gestation was completed, the pouch into which the small marsupial withdrew to make what he alone could make, for good or possibly ill, of his silent, secret, solitary self.? The reader is introduced to various family members: a father consumed by jealous rage; grandparents who are hardened, stoic workers but who keep the weakest of their piglets warm by bringing them into their bed for a few nights. The author?s mother is long-suffering, but she is also the young woman who on passing through a doorway forgets she is carrying a jug of water on her head because she has just received a proposal from her future husband. ?You might say that my life began there too,? Saramago writes, ?with a broken water jug.? After relating this incident of the broken jug, Saramago tells the reader that his older brother, Francisco, died at age 4 in the spring of 1924, some months after his mother brought them to Lisbon. The author wonders about his memory of his brother, the ?happy, sturdy, perfect little boy, who, it would seem, cannot wait for his body to grow and for his arms to be long enough to reach something.? ?It?s the summer or perhaps the autumn of the year Francisco is going to die,? Saramago writes, adding it?s ?my earliest memory. And it may well be false.? ? I was unprepared for the piercing sadness of this hazy recollection, steeped in sorrow but told in the same calm, matter-of-fact style as Saramago?s other childhood recollections. From the loss of his older brother we are led to a memory with a ?fierce and violent truth?: Saramago?s brutal encounter with a pack of older boys who, holding him down, thrust a metal wire into his urethra. The horror and sadness of the wounded little boy, blood streaming from his penis, is startling in the context of the quiet charms of the volume as a whole. Francisco is dead; little Jose has no one to protect him. The physical wounds will heal, but the longing for the missing brother ? and a concern for those who are vulnerable to all sorts of brutality ? will always remain. Shortly after relating this incident, Saramago recalls his older friend the ?prodigious shoemaker,? also named Francisco, who asked the young author-to-be if he believed there were other worlds, where other possibilities were realized. When Saramago first decided to write a memoir, he tells us that he knew he would want to write of his brother. Bringing the forgotten back through words is the writer?s alchemy, his power to create when faced with the harshness of the world. Saramago, a poet, journalist and diarist in addition to being an acclaimed novelist, knew that words mattered a great deal ? that they can even point to one?s destiny. The writer?s paternal family name, for example, was de Sousa, and the author tells us it was a town clerk?s joke to register his surname as Saramago ? the name for a wild radish eaten by the poor in harsh times. The boy grew into his name, taming his wildness but always remaining faithful to his roots in poverty. ?Small Memories? is an expression of that fidelity, a small but nourishing last gift from a great writer. Michael S. Roth is the president of Wesleyan University. His ?Memory, Trauma and History: Essays on Living With the Past? will be published in the fall. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 15:49:27 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 21:49:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 Message-ID: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/cy-twombly-idiosyncratic-painter-dies-at-83/?hp In the only written statement Mr. Twombly ever made about his work, a short essay in an Italian art journal in 1957, he tried to make clear that his intentions were not subversive but elementally human. Each line he made, he said, was ?the actual experience? of making the line, adding: ?It does not illustrate. It is the sensation of its own realization.? Years later he described this more plainly. ?It?s more like I?m having an experience than making a picture.? The process stood in stark contrast to the detached, effete image that often clung to Mr. Twombly. After completing a work, in a kind of ecstatic state, it was as if the painting existed and he barely did anymore: ?I usually have to go to bed for a couple of days.? -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 6 11:04:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:04:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> On 7/5/2011 2:49 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/cy-twombly-idiosyncratic-painter-dies-at-83/?hp > In the only written statement Mr. Twombly ever made about his work, a > short essay in an Italian art journal in 1957, he tried to make clear > that his intentions were not subversive but elementally human. Each > line he made, he said, was ?the actual experience? of making the line, > adding: ?It does not illustrate. It is the sensation of its own > realization.? Years later he described this more plainly. ?It?s more > like I?m having an experience than making a picture.? The process > stood in stark contrast to the detached, effete image that often clung > to Mr. Twombly. After completing a work, in a kind of ecstatic state, > it was as if the painting existed and he barely did anymore: ?I > usually have to go to bed for a couple of days.? > > -- > Anny Ballardini I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally). Nothing wrong with that--it's the way many artists are. Others, who are never any good, do know what they're doing, but not viscerally. And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 10:52:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:52:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Same goes double for nomenclaturists. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 6 12:16:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 11:16:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. > > > --Bob > Same goes double for nomenclaturists. Hal Probably so, since naming things properly is much more difficult than artistic creation. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:40:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 10:40:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: You fail so brilliantly at it. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. > > >> --Bob >> > > Same goes double for nomenclaturists. > > Hal > > Probably so, since naming things properly is much more difficult than > artistic creation. > > --Bob > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:01:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:01:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yes, I think you are right. I was looking up the etymology of 'stupid' today, and that is how I think artists work: from L. stupidus "amazed, confounded," lit. "struck senseless," from stupere"be stunned, amazed, confounded," from PIE *(s)tupe- "hit," from base *(s)teu- (see steep(adj.)). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=stupid On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/5/2011 2:49 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.**com/2011/07/05/cy-twombly-** >> idiosyncratic-painter-dies-at-**83/?hp >> In the only written statement Mr. Twombly ever made about his work, a >> short essay in an Italian art journal in 1957, he tried to make clear that >> his intentions were not subversive but elementally human. Each line he made, >> he said, was ?the actual experience? of making the line, adding: ?It does >> not illustrate. It is the sensation of its own realization.? Years later he >> described this more plainly. ?It?s more like I?m having an experience than >> making a picture.? The process stood in stark contrast to the detached, >> effete image that often clung to Mr. Twombly. After completing a work, in a >> kind of ecstatic state, it was as if the painting existed and he barely did >> anymore: ?I usually have to go to bed for a couple of days.? >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> > > I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it > sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing > (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally). Nothing wrong with > that--it's the way many artists are. Others, who are never any good, do > know what they're doing, but not viscerally. And, of course, no artist can > entirely know what he's doing. > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:09:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:09:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Well, maybe "brilliantly" is not the word. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You fail so brilliantly at it. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> ** >> And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. >> >> >>> --Bob >>> >> >> Same goes double for nomenclaturists. >> >> Hal >> >> Probably so, since naming things properly is much more difficult than >> artistic creation. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 15:05:23 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?"Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious proclamations.? Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what to improve.? Constant study.? He worked very hard and he knew his craft. It's easy to imagine Louis and others as grinning idiots who happened upon something sophisticated that we (the wise audience) recognize as sophisticated but they (the dumb "reflexive" artists) don't know the value of.? Because you know, we, sitting at this distance on our asses, know so much more than the poor limited artists who never "formally" / consciously? studied interpretations.? How uninformed and self righteous can you get, "Bob?" Ugh, Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally).? Nothing wrong with that--it's the way many artists are.? Others, who are never any good, do know what they're doing, but not viscerally.? And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. --Bob _______________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 15:35:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1309980928.72577.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> To say that Armstrong didn't know what he was doing "except viscerally ... hormonally" ... & so on is simply ignorant. Playing chord changes requires?not only a ton of?theory,?but also?a ridiculous knowledge of scales, and to put that knowledge into practice is an "art" that few really master.?But to put that knowledge to practice the way that?Armstrong did approaches genius. Armstrong didn't feel any need to verbally explain what he had already mastered and which could be heard by anyone with half an ear. One might as well say that Parker or Miles?were ignorant. & bop is hopelessly difficult ... musicians simply consider verbal explanations unnecessary, if not, simply boring. How many great artist are necessarily that articulate when explaing their aesthetic? Pollock certainly wasn't. Architects may be the exceptions. At least in the case of Robert Venturi (author of Learning from Las Vegas and other books on theory). Most of the time, the explaining is usually left to critics, and half of them truly are half/wits. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 3:05:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong ?"Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious proclamations.? Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what to improve.? Constant study.? He worked very hard and he knew his craft. It's easy to imagine Louis and others as grinning idiots who happened upon something sophisticated that we (the wise audience) recognize as sophisticated but they (the dumb "reflexive" artists) don't know the value of.? Because you know, we, sitting at this distance on our asses, know so much more than the poor limited artists who never "formally" / consciously? studied interpretations.? How uninformed and self righteous can you get, "Bob?" Ugh, Amy ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally).? Nothing wrong with that--it's the way many artists are.? Others, who are never any good, do know what they're doing, but not viscerally.? And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. --Bob _______________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 6 16:52:24 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:52:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> On 7/6/2011 2:05 PM, amy king wrote: > > "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, > pretentious proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he > studied hard as a young player (learning to read music; playing light > classics as part of the gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the > great autodidacts, listening to tapes he made himself of his previous > performances -- what to keep, what to improve. Constant study. He > worked very hard and he knew his craft. It's easy to imagine Louis and > others as grinning idiots who happened upon something sophisticated > that we (the wise audience) recognize as sophisticated but they (the > dumb "reflexive" artists) don't know the value of. Because you know, > we, sitting at this distance on our asses, know so much more than the > poor limited artists who never "formally" / consciously studied > interpretations. > > How uninformed and self righteous can you get, "Bob?" > > Ugh, > > Amy I doubt I'll ever get as misinformed about anything as you constantly are about what I write, Amy, even with it right in front of you, apparently. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 15:42:11 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 20:42:11 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <30754599.1309981331620.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> With any luck you will have received my diet advice for the last time, but we won't know till tomorrow evening if the fix works. I expect you all to be much lighter by then. Best, Mark From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 15:52:55 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 20:52:55 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <19768722.1309981976366.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 16:26:19 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I took issue with your reductive characterization of Armstrong, "Bob."? "Muscularly" "hormonally"? "didn't know what he was doing"? -- all code for "primitive."?? I cited specifics, illustrating how Armstrong was well studied, well aware and practiced - intensely devoted to consciously developing his talent. ? You denied that hard work in one short paragraph. ? It's quite clear who's got it wrong here. Amy From: Bob Grumman I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally).? Nothing wrong with that--it's the way many artists are.? Others, who are never any good, do know what they're doing, but not viscerally.? And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. --Bob On 7/6/2011 2:05 PM, amy king wrote: > >?"Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious proclamations.? Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what to improve.? Constant study.? He worked very hard and he knew his craft. It's easy to imagine Louis and others as grinning idiots who happened upon something sophisticated that we (the wise audience) recognize as sophisticated but they (the dumb "reflexive" artists) don't know the value of.? Because you know, we, sitting at this distance on our asses, know so much more than the poor limited artists who never "formally" / consciously? studied interpretations.? > >How uninformed and self righteous can you get, "Bob?" > > > >Ugh, > > >Amy > I doubt I'll ever get as misinformed about anything as you constantly are about what I write, Amy, even with it right in front of you, apparently. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 14:59:09 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] this is something very private so i'm only telling friends Message-ID: <17798181.51735.1309978749794.JavaMail.portal@wapmail-coots.atl.sa.earthlink.net> For everyone i know: Im rarely one to recommend a product unless its really something phenomenal but i have been using this stuff that my Dr. recommended for weight loss and I have lost 8 pounds in a week. Three of my friend's who just began taking it also lost six pounds each. Facebook Sponsored: http://apps.facebook.com/acaimagic/?coupon=yvuj100 PS this Facebook site sells it for half as much as other sites From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 6 17:47:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 16:47:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <19768722.1309981976366.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19768722.1309981976366.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E14D7E7.5050705@nut-n-but.net> > What's been said about Louis Armstrong is also true for most visual > artists. To talk about one's practice in words is to translate from > the language in which the work was created. Not every musician or > visual artist feels compelled to do so, in the face of the > impossibility of doing so successfully. Most artists can't, that's a fact--as Twombly's remarks about his art indicate. I, of course, think it's possible since, unlike many, I think words can be used to communicate understandings of everything in existence /sufficiently/. Like a car--even though one will never be able to explain everything about it like what energy ultimately is. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 6 17:50:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 16:50:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I have an "Amy King" file where I store all your jokes, Amy. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 16:49:40 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:49:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <19768722.1309981976366.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19768722.1309981976366.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: An artist/writer who creates only one work will have created both his best one and his worst at the same time. One who creates more than one that are of different qualitative value will have one that is, to some, better than the other. I think the word "different" says enough. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 2:52 PM, wrote: > Wow. I couldn't imagine why there was so much talk about Twombly--not a > put-down on my part, but what's there to say? So I guess there is something. > Twombly was one of the more thoughtful artists, hammering at related > problems for decades at a time. Which means (in my opinion at least) that a > lot of th canvases in any given period of his work are less successful than > the best of them--what you'd expect of someone s relentlessly experimental > as he was. > > What's been said about Louis Armstrong is also true for most visual > artists. To talk about one's practice in words is to translate from the > language in which the work was created. Not every musician or visual artist > feels compelled to do so, in the face of the impossibility of doing so > successfully. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell ** > Sent: Jul 6, 2011 8:35 PM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - > Louis Armstrong > > ******** > To say that Armstrong didn't know what he was doing "except viscerally ... > hormonally" ... & so on is simply ignorant. > Playing chord changes requires not only a ton of theory, but also a > ridiculous knowledge of scales, and to put that knowledge into practice is > an "art" that few really master. But to put that knowledge to practice the > way that Armstrong did approaches genius. Armstrong didn't feel any need to > verbally explain what he had already mastered and which could be heard by > anyone with half an ear. > > One might as well say that Parker or Miles were ignorant. & bop is > hopelessly difficult ... musicians simply consider verbal explanations > unnecessary, if not, simply boring. How many great artist are necessarily > that articulate when explaing their aesthetic? Pollock certainly wasn't. > Architects may be the exceptions. At least in the case of Robert Venturi > (author of Learning from Las Vegas and other books on theory). > > Most of the time, the explaining is usually left to critics, and half of > them truly are half/wits. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* amy king > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 6, 2011 3:05:23 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 > - Louis Armstrong > > > "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious > proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a > young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the > gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening > to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what > to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his craft. > It's easy to imagine Louis and others as grinning idiots who happened upon > something sophisticated that we (the wise audience) recognize as > sophisticated but they (the dumb "reflexive" artists) don't know the value > of. Because you know, we, sitting at this distance on our asses, know so > much more than the poor limited artists who never "formally" / consciously > studied interpretations. > > How uninformed and self righteous can you get, "Bob?" > > Ugh, > > Amy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > ** > I'm a Twombly fan, and am sorry to hear of his death, but have to say it > sounds to me that, like Louis Armstrong, he didn't know what he was doing > (except viscerally--i.e., muscularly and hormonally). Nothing wrong with > that--it's the way many artists are. Others, who are never any good, do > know what they're doing, but not viscerally. And, of course, no artist can > entirely know what he's doing. > > --Bob > _______________________ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 16:50:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:50:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Go to your room, B-bob. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I have an "Amy King" file where I > store all your jokes, Amy. > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 17:47:21 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1309988841.81134.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The emperor is always needing new clothes - I'm here to help you get dressed, "Bob." Amy ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman? I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I have an "Amy King" file where I store all your jokes, Amy. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 18:00:45 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1309988841.81134.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E14CB08.6070109@nut-n-but.net> <1309983979.7515.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E14D8B4.90204@nut-n-but.net> <1309988841.81134.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1309989645.91958.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> maybe the emperor has a dull wardrobe. that often is sadly the case. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 5:47:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong The emperor is always needing new clothes - I'm here to help you get dressed, "Bob." Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I have an "Amy King" file where I store all your jokes, Amy. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jul 6 19:00:48 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:00:48 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E148A57.8070109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > And, of course, no artist can entirely know what he's doing. >> >> --Bob > > Same goes double for nomenclaturists. > > Hal > > Probably so, since naming things properly is much more difficult than > artistic creation. Are you sure you aren't confusing a lack of interest in your naming of things with the characteristic of difficulty? c From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jul 6 19:05:51 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:05:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <1309979123.70461.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king wrote: > > ?"Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious > proclamations.? Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a > young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the > gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening > to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what > to improve.? Constant study.? He worked very hard and he knew his craft. True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as an example. In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other reasons. c From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 6 22:36:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:36:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE0A65D15BF64F-1CB4-1AE17@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> I'm happy that some artists have chosen to speak at length, in depth, and articulately about their process of artmaking. But I can certainly understand those artists who are more reticent about how and what it that they do... They may not understand?what they do themselves. It may be an out-of-body, out-of-mind experience to make art. ? They may be limited in their vocabulary or in their command of?the?language necessary to?do justice to what it is?they experience in the process. ? They may feel language itself?is inadequate to the task or explaining. Something is always ineffable in the process of artmaking. They may feel that dissection is death. To know too much about the process would kill the vital impetus. The magic must not be tampered with. ? Etc. Some artist can explain, some just?try, some deny the ability to explain,?some would rather not explain, some are not capable of explaining. All valid. ? Finnegan? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 6 22:53:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:53:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <8CE0A65D15BF64F-1CB4-1AE17@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0A65D15BF64F-1CB4-1AE17@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE0A68248A1CB8-1CB4-1B022@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Some artists, like Twombly, get a smart guy like Roland Barthes to tell us what it is they're doing. See the Twombly on the cover... http://www.amazon.com/Responsibility-Forms-Critical-Essays-Representation/dp/0520072383 It's a good essay too. Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jul 6, 2011 10:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 I'm happy that some artists have chosen to speak at length, in depth, and articulately about their process of artmaking. But I can certainly understand those artists who are more reticent about how and what it that they do... They may not understand?what they do themselves. It may be an out-of-body, out-of-mind experience to make art. ? They may be limited in their vocabulary or in their command of?the?language necessary to?do justice to what it is?they experience in the process. ? They may feel language itself?is inadequate to the task or explaining. Something is always ineffable in the process of artmaking. They may feel that dissection is death. To know too much about the process would kill the vital impetus. The magic must not be tampered with. ? Etc. Some artist can explain, some just?try, some deny the ability to explain,?some would rather not explain, some are not capable of explaining. All valid. ? Finnegan? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 07:29:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:29:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 In-Reply-To: <8CE0A65D15BF64F-1CB4-1AE17@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0A65D15BF64F-1CB4-1AE17@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E159889.4040001@nut-n-but.net> On 7/6/2011 9:36 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I'm happy that some artists have chosen to speak at length, in depth, > and articulately about their process of artmaking. > But I can certainly understand those artists who are more reticent > about how and what it that they do... > > They may not understand what they do themselves. It may be an > out-of-body, out-of-mind experience to make art. > They may be limited in their vocabulary or in their command > of the language necessary to do justice to what it is they experience > in the process. > They may feel language itself is inadequate to the task or explaining. > Something is always ineffable in the process of artmaking. > > They may feel that dissection is death. To know too much about the > process would kill the vital impetus. The magic must not be tampered > with. > Etc. Some artist can explain, some just try, some deny the ability to > explain, some would rather not explain, some are not capable of > explaining. > All valid. > Finnegan > Warning, Finnegan, what you're saying is dangerously close to what I said. I would only disagree (violently) that denying the ability to explain is valid. Nothing can be completely explained but everything except the few things that simply are, like the universe, can be explained well enough to satisfy any reasonable person. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 07:43:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 06:43:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king wrote: >> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious >> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a >> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the >> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening >> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what >> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his craft. > True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- > particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more > fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as > an example. > > In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone > does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the > music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other > reasons. > > c What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a waste of time. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 07:05:40 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:05:40 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the music department because I liked them better than the English dept folks, when the PhD in composition was inaugurated. I knew the first candidate. He had his 45 minute full orchestra piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the requirement that he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, natch, but spent months turning the air blue beforehand. It struck him then and strikes me now as an idiotic requirement. If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of it. How about Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata form? Mozart on opera? Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Grumman >Sent: Jul 7, 2011 12:43 PM >To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong > >On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king wrote: >>> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious >>> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a >>> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the >>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening >>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what >>> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his craft. >> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- >> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more >> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as >> an example. >> >> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone >> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the >> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other >> reasons. >> >> c > >What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark >attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't >understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could >have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about >anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for >explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so >science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a >waste of time. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 09:21:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:21:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Charles Rosen unpacked the sonata form in a book that is much less fun to read than it is to listen to any given sonata. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:05 AM, wrote: > Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. > > In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his > system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." > > I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the music > department because I liked them better than the English dept folks, when the > PhD in composition was inaugurated. I knew the first candidate. He had his > 45 minute full orchestra piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the > requirement that he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, natch, > but spent months turning the air blue beforehand. It struck him then and > strikes me now as an idiotic requirement. > > If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of it. How > about Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata form? Mozart on opera? > > Best, > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Grumman > >Sent: Jul 7, 2011 12:43 PM > >To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - > Louis Armstrong > > > >On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king wrote: > >>> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, > pretentious > >>> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as > a > >>> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of > the > >>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, > listening > >>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, > what > >>> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his > craft. > >> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- > >> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more > >> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as > >> an example. > >> > >> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone > >> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the > >> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other > >> reasons. > >> > >> c > > > >What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark > >attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't > >understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could > >have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about > >anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for > >explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so > >science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a > >waste of time. > > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 09:23:16 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:23:16 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 09:48:39 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 06:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Armstrong would sit at the piano and work out the chord structure. & his best instrument may have been his voice. If he's not the Michael Jordan of jazz, he's the Magic A?... ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 7:43:31 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king? wrote: >>? "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious >> proclamations.? Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a >> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of the >> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, listening >> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, what >> to improve.? Constant study.? He worked very hard and he knew his craft. > True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- > particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more > fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as > an example. > > In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone > does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the > music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other > reasons. > > c What was "his own way?"? In any case, I was going by the remark attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't understand it.? I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a waste of time. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 12:32:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 11:32:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E15DF85.4000205@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 6:05 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. > > In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." > > I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the music department because I liked them better than the English dept folks, when the PhD in composition was inaugurated. I knew the first candidate. He had his 45 minute full orchestra piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the requirement that he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, natch, but spent months turning the air blue beforehand. It struck him then and strikes me now as an idiotic requirement. I agree. But the idea that there should be no area of study where such a requirement would be justified is equally stupid. > If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of it. How about Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata form? Mozart on opera? > > Best, > > Mark On the other hand, there is Ted Williams, on the art of hitting. Although I don't know whether or not he every /wrote/ what he was well-know for saying. Very few people are world-class at more than one (significant) thing, or even world-class at one (significant) thing, and highly competent at another. Which is why it's so often a waste of time going to artists to learn about their art (as opposed, as I shouldn't have to say, to going to their art--but also, unless they are naturally brilliant at art appreciation--to art critics). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 12:40:09 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 11:40:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12408004.1310036740997.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E15E169.9030903@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 6:05 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. True. I was responding to what he was quoted as saying--in a piece that I remember as indicating he rarely said anything about his practice. > In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." I disagree. His system consists of words. He expected those words to explain the system. I believe he was saying something like, "If you don't know what I mean by X, go to page 45 of my book where you'lls that I state what I mean by X." You can't "just listen" to a jazz performance to get explanatory words about it. --Bob From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 7 11:27:17 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 10:27:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> There's another element here, I think. I just got the new Louis Armstrong Hot Fives and Sevens boxed set, so have been listening to them in sequence. Armstrong's musical education at the Colored Waif's Home was one thing, and I supposed he could explain it as well as any other trained musician--he certainly was an adaptive player in band contexts. But by 1925, he'd largely abandoned the ensemble playing of King Oliver's band and begun (with his first Hot Fives) exploring the break-and-solo style that came to dominate jazz playing--especially reed and horn playing. Hearing those records again in sequence, I'm amazed at the rapidity with which his improvisation develops. Scholars talk about Armstrong inventing the grammar of jazz improvisation, but it's clear that he's forging a new phonology and lexicon at the same time, instrument by instrument, including the voice, with one ear on New Orleans ensemble playing, one ear on popular music, and one ear (don't imagine that Armstrong only has the ears the rest of us have) on the future. And he lived long enough to see jazz taken up by white American culture, by Europe, and by the rest of the world; he saw it shift to swing, bop, and cool, and saw it integrated into all sorts of "non-jazz" contexts; he saw it infiltrate classical orchestras and the movies; he saw his own influence spread, transform, and be both repudiated and celebrated by all sorts of players and singers. He formed friendships with musicians of all sorts. (This brings up something Eddie Condon once said about jazz--and the title of his memoir: "we called it music (or what would you suggest?") He did _not_ see it splattered and sprayed and misrepresented all over the internet. My point (sorry, I've gone on too long) is that to ask "what is jazz?" (if that's really the question he was responding to) has something in common with "what is the universe?" (the consummate process of continual creation and adaptation?), because even in Armstrong's lifetime it had disseminated its energies and structures so far that practically any truth you could claim about it could be just as truthfully contradicted. It's easy, in that framework, to imagine a context in which it would be better to give a non-answer. (As to Bob Grumman's suggestion that anything can be explained, I can only answer, Not to me. I reached my limit with mathematics years ago. And string theory--don't get me started on string theory.) One other point, made sheepishly. While I absolutely agree that there's no imperative for a poet to enunciate an ars poetica or for a musician to write _Poetics of Music_, I feel differently about artists who take a PhD in their field. These aren't (or shouldn't be, I'd argue) studio curricula where all you do is practice your art. You also (should) learn its variety, its history and theory. I think that a person who takes a PhD in, let's say, poetry, should be able to say what s/he means when s/he names his/her subject, with some degree of particularity. Jerry On 7/7/2011 8:48 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Armstrong would sit at the piano and work out the chord structure. & > his best instrument may have been his voice. If he's not the Michael > Jordan of jazz, he's the Magic A ... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, July 7, 2011 7:43:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at > 83 - Louis Armstrong > > On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king > wrote: > >> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, > pretentious > >> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied > hard as a > >> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as > part of the > >> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, > listening > >> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to > keep, what > >> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his > craft. > > True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- > > particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more > > fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as > > an example. > > > > In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone > > does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the > > music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other > > reasons. > > > > c > > What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark > attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't > understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could > have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about > anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for > explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so > science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is > a waste of time. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 12:51:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 11:51:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 8:23 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > And it doesn't tell much beyond the machinery. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Jul 7, 2011 2:21 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies > at 83 - Louis Armstrong > > Charles Rosen unpacked the sonata form in a book that is much less > fun to read than it is to listen to any given sonata. > So what? Some of Eliot's and Pound's and many others' essays on poetry seem to me as valuable and enjoyable as any given poem. In any case, the question about what Rosen wrote is whether someone reading it would then be able to tell a sonata from a pop song--and write one. I know--Rosen can't help someone not gifted write a /good/ sonata, but the main point is that someone could write a sonata as opposed to a sonnet after reading him, if Rosen did a competent job of unpacking it. I suspect Rosen is a lot more fun a a lot of sonatas, too--and that there are people who may well enjoy his book more than any sonata. Not me. I like music better than any other art, and better than criticism or philosophy. --Bob > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; > ////The Dance of the Red Swan > ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:05 AM, > wrote: > > Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome > interviewer. > > In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions > about his system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just > listen." > > I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the > music department because I liked them better than the English > dept folks, when the PhD in composition was inaugurated. I > knew the first candidate. He had his 45 minute full orchestra > piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the requirement > that he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, > natch, but spent months turning the air blue beforehand. It > struck him then and strikes me now as an idiotic requirement. > > If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of > it. How about Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata > form? Mozart on opera? > > Best, > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Grumman > > >Sent: Jul 7, 2011 12:43 PM > >To: NewPoetry List > > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, > Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong > > > >On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy > king> wrote: > >>> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your > ridiculous, pretentious > >>> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he > studied hard as a > >>> young player (learning to read music; playing light > classics as part of the > >>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great > autodidacts, listening > >>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- > what to keep, what > >>> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he > knew his craft. > >> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's > characterization-- > >> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more > >> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor > choice to use as > >> an example. > >> > >> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art > as anyone > >> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful > without the > >> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other > >> reasons. > >> > >> c > > > >What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark > >attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you > can't > >understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a > thing could > >have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) > about > >anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for > >explanatory words, which implies that such words don't > exist--and so > >science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the > truth is a > >waste of time. > > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 13:02:15 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:02:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E159BE3.8070700 @nut-n-but.net> <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E15E697.9060808@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 8:48 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Armstrong would sit at the piano and work out the chord structure. & > his best instrument may have been his voice. Right--aconceptually, viscerally and muscularly, as I said. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:06:01 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 17:06:01 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <11410641.1310054761800.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:08:37 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 17:08:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <24654527.1310054917835.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 13:09:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:09:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> Remember I "only" say everything can be explained /sufficiently/ to satisfy an intelligent person. Or, at least, in the case of the very difficult, /some/ intelligent person. And some things can't be explained because they're bullshit, string theory being one of them. To me, at any rate. If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:31:28 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:31:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Why would it *need *to be? I know, I know--you'll have some cockamamie reason. Or, you'll tell me to read your blog. Or, you'll tell me that I misrepresent you. Or, you'll call me a nihilist. Did I cover all the bases? --Jeff "Seriously?" Newberry On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > Remember I "only" say everything can be explained *sufficiently* to > satisfy an intelligent person. Or, at least, in the case of the very > difficult, *some* intelligent person. And some things can't be explained > because they're bullshit, string theory being one of them. To me, at any > rate. > > If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:43:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:43:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Rosen's much more fun when he's playing sonatas than when he's writing about them. I agree though that many poets are more fun when they're writing about poetry than when they're writing poetry. Eliot's not one of those. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/7/2011 8:23 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > > And it doesn't tell much beyond the machinery. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson ** > Sent: Jul 7, 2011 2:21 PM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - > Louis Armstrong > > Charles Rosen unpacked the sonata form in a book that is much less fun to > read than it is to listen to any given sonata. > **** > > > So what? Some of Eliot's and Pound's and many others' essays on poetry > seem to me as valuable and enjoyable as any given poem. In any case, the > question about what Rosen wrote is whether someone reading it would then be > able to tell a sonata from a pop song--and write one. I know--Rosen can't > help someone not gifted write a *good* sonata, but the main point is that > someone could write a sonata as opposed to a sonnet after reading him, if > Rosen did a competent job of unpacking it. > > I suspect Rosen is a lot more fun a a lot of sonatas, too--and that there > are people who may well enjoy his book more than any sonata. Not me. I > like music better than any other art, and better than criticism or > philosophy. > > --Bob > > > > **** > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > *Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > *G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:05 AM, wrote: > >> Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. >> >> In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his >> system, "Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." >> >> I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the music >> department because I liked them better than the English dept folks, when the >> PhD in composition was inaugurated. I knew the first candidate. He had his >> 45 minute full orchestra piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the >> requirement that he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, natch, >> but spent months turning the air blue beforehand. It struck him then and >> strikes me now as an idiotic requirement. >> >> If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of it. How >> about Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata form? Mozart on opera? >> >> Best, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Bob Grumman >> >Sent: Jul 7, 2011 12:43 PM >> >To: NewPoetry List >> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 >> - Louis Armstrong >> > >> >On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king >> wrote: >> >>> "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, >> pretentious >> >>> proclamations. Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard >> as a >> >>> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part >> of the >> >>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, >> listening >> >>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, >> what >> >>> to improve. Constant study. He worked very hard and he knew his >> craft. >> >> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- >> >> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more >> >> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as >> >> an example. >> >> >> >> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone >> >> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the >> >> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other >> >> reasons. >> >> >> >> c >> > >> >What was "his own way?" In any case, I was going by the remark >> >attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't >> >understand it. I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could >> >have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about >> >anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for >> >explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so >> >science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a >> >waste of time. >> > >> >--Bob >> >_______________________________________________ >> >New-Poetry mailing list >> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:45:05 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:45:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Some people are intelligent enough not to want explanations. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > Remember I "only" say everything can be explained *sufficiently* to > satisfy an intelligent person. Or, at least, in the case of the very > difficult, *some* intelligent person. And some things can't be explained > because they're bullshit, string theory being one of them. To me, at any > rate. > > If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:47:51 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 17:47:51 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:49:04 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 17:49:04 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <28060043.1310057344865.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:50:47 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:50:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: My guess is that to Beethoven it meant quite a bit, deaf or not. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:47 AM, wrote: > What we mean by explain may also be at issue. What does jazz, or the sonata > form, for that matter (by the way, Hal, I love Rosen on sonata form and > almost everything else. My musician friends love him even more) mean to the > profoundly deaf, no matter how explained? At what point does the concept of > the music supersede it, if ever? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry ** > Sent: Jul 7, 2011 5:31 PM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - > Louis Armstrong > > Why would it *need *to be? I know, I know--you'll have some cockamamie > reason. Or, you'll tell me to read your blog. Or, you'll tell me that I > misrepresent you. Or, you'll call me a nihilist. Did I cover all the > bases? > > --Jeff "Seriously?" Newberry > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> ** >> Remember I "only" say everything can be explained *sufficiently* to >> satisfy an intelligent person. Or, at least, in the case of the very >> difficult, *some* intelligent person. And some things can't be explained >> because they're bullshit, string theory being one of them. To me, at any >> rate. >> >> If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:52:34 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:52:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Btw, once upon a time I thought those pre-concert lectures, panel-discussions, etc. were a great idea, and maybe for some they are. As for me, I gave 'em up. Also gave up reading program notes, etc. etc. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > My guess is that to Beethoven it meant quite a bit, deaf or not. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:47 AM, wrote: > >> What we mean by explain may also be at issue. What does jazz, or the >> sonata form, for that matter (by the way, Hal, I love Rosen on sonata form >> and almost everything else. My musician friends love him even more) mean to >> the profoundly deaf, no matter how explained? At what point does the concept >> of the music supersede it, if ever? >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeff Newberry ** >> Sent: Jul 7, 2011 5:31 PM >> To: NewPoetry List ** >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - >> Louis Armstrong >> >> Why would it *need *to be? I know, I know--you'll have some cockamamie >> reason. Or, you'll tell me to read your blog. Or, you'll tell me that I >> misrepresent you. Or, you'll call me a nihilist. Did I cover all the >> bases? >> >> --Jeff "Seriously?" Newberry >> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> ** >>> Remember I "only" say everything can be explained *sufficiently* to >>> satisfy an intelligent person. Or, at least, in the case of the very >>> difficult, *some* intelligent person. And some things can't be >>> explained because they're bullshit, string theory being one of them. To me, >>> at any rate. >>> >>> If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> **** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:53:24 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 17:53:24 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Message-ID: <8318024.1310057604197.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 7 13:17:01 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:17:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E15EA0D.3050303@louisiana.edu> I certainly agree with this. An exception--or something completely different--is the public master class. As a failed musician, I've learned a lot from watching people like Manuel Barreuco work one-on-one, on-stage, with the very good students in our guitar program here at UL Lafayette. And clearly a different theory emerges watching his corrections, suggestions, interpretations, etc., than when watching Christopher Parkening at work. Most interesting (I'm sure this has something important to do with theory) is when a student gets uppity and dares to question one of these guys' suggestions. (Also, it quickly becomes apparent that they're not really suggestions.) Jerry On 7/7/2011 11:52 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Btw, once upon a time I thought those pre-concert lectures, > panel-discussions, etc. were a great idea, and maybe for some they > are. As for me, I gave 'em up. Also gave up reading program notes, > etc. etc. > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > My guess is that to Beethoven it meant quite a bit, deaf or not. > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; > ////The Dance of the Red Swan > ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:47 AM, > wrote: > > What we mean by explain may also be at issue. What does > jazz, or the sonata form, for that matter (by the way, > Hal, I love Rosen on sonata form and almost everything > else. My musician friends love him even more) mean to the > profoundly deaf, no matter how explained? At what point > does the concept of the music supersede it, if ever? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > Sent: Jul 7, 2011 5:31 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic > Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong > > Why would it /need /to be? I know, I know--you'll have > some cockamamie reason. Or, you'll tell me to read your > blog. Or, you'll tell me that I misrepresent you. Or, > you'll call me a nihilist. Did I cover all the bases? > > --Jeff "Seriously?" Newberry > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Bob Grumman > > wrote: > > Remember I "only" say everything can be explained > /sufficiently/ to satisfy an intelligent person. Or, > at least, in the case of the very difficult, /some/ > intelligent person. And some things can't be > explained because they're bullshit, string theory > being one of them. To me, at any rate. > > If jazz can't be explained sufficiently, what can be? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them > parables; and that is what art really is, particular > stories of particular people and experience, from which > each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may > draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Jul 7 14:58:04 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:58:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I meant "in his own way" quite literally-- if you read his writing or listen to his tapes and interviews, he had a rather idiosyncratic way of communicating, but he still demonstrates a deep knowledge of musical form and structure. Seems to me you are putting way too much weight on an off-the-cuff remark rather than on his own work, including the music which also speaks. I doubt you'd like to be characterized and marginalized based on a pick-one of any number of Bob-isms you've posted to this list. None of us would. c On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king ?wrote: >>> >>> ?"Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious >>> proclamations. ?Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a >>> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of >>> the >>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, >>> listening >>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, >>> what >>> to improve. ?Constant study. ?He worked very hard and he knew his craft. >> >> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- >> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more >> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as >> an example. >> >> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone >> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the >> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other >> reasons. >> >> c > > What was "his own way?" ?In any case, I was going by the remark attributed > to him that if you have to ask about something you can't understand it. ?I > can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could have any verbalizable > conceptual knowledge (of significance) about anything because he's saying > that it's a waste of time to ask for explanatory words, which implies that > such words don't exist--and so science and philosophy and every other kind > of search for the truth is a waste of time. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 15:11:04 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15E697.9060808@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><1309979123.70461 .YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E159BE3.8070700 @nut-n-but.net> <1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E15E697.9060808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310065864.47379.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Aconceptually?"? Mark's note bears repeating:? "Bob: You do realize that music is also a language. Musicians communicate in it all the time, and their discussion of music with other musicians is often in the language of music." Repeatedly parroting one's own wrong-headed reductions, no matter how "muscularly" one does so, doesn't make them any more correct or astute than the first time around.? Of course, where some strive to be the next Susanne Langer and work hard to understand how systems of communication operate, including music, others just point and make grossly inadequate statements and hope for the best. Amy From: Bob Grumman ? Right--aconceptually, viscerally and muscularly, as I said. > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 15:16:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Eliot was a pompous bore when he?did criticism. ?I wish D. H. Lawrence included him in his Studies of Classic American Literature. Lawrence would have?attacked?Elliot's petty, class pretensions. ??The dopey Tory part of Eliot. Of course, Lawrence was misguided too. Silliman seems the best populist observer of contemporary American poetry. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 12:43:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Rosen's much more fun when he's playing sonatas than when he's writing about them. I agree though that many poets are more fun when they're writing about poetry than when they're writing poetry. Eliot's not one of those. ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 7/7/2011 8:23 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >And it doesn't tell much beyond the machinery. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Halvard Johnson >>>Sent: Jul 7, 2011 2:21 PM >>>To: NewPoetry List >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis >>>Armstrong >>> >>> >>>Charles Rosen unpacked the sonata form in a book that is much less fun to read >>>than it is to listen to any given sonata. >>> So what?? Some of Eliot's and Pound's and many others' essays on poetry seem to me as valuable and enjoyable as any given poem.? In any case, the question about what Rosen wrote is whether someone reading it would then be able to tell a sonata from a pop song--and write one.? I know--Rosen can't help someone not gifted write a good sonata, but the main point is that someone could write a sonata as opposed to a sonnet after reading him, if Rosen did a competent job of unpacking it. > >I suspect Rosen is a lot more fun a a lot of sonatas, too--and that there are >people who may well enjoy his book more than any sonata.? Not me.? I like music >better than any other art, and better than criticism or philosophy. > >--Bob > > > > >?? ? >>> >>> >>>"Literature is news that stays news." >>>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound >>> >>> >>>Hal >>>Halvard Johnson >>>================ >>> >>>halvard at gmail.com >>>http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> >>> >>>Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >>>Sonnets; >>>Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >>>Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >>>G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >>>Transparencies & Projections >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:05 AM, wrote: >>> >>>Or he could have been trying to get rid of a troublesome interviewer. >>>> >>>>In a certain mood,Heidegger might have responded to questions about his system, >>>>"Read the book." The equivalent of "Just listen." >>>> >>>>I was a grad student at Columbia, hanging out mostly at the music department >>>>because I liked them better than the English dept folks, when the PhD in >>>>composition was inaugurated. I knew the first candidate. He had his 45 minute >>>>full orchestra piece in the can, but the dept had imposed the requirement that >>>>he write a hundred pages ecxplaining it. He did it, natch, but spent months >>>>turning the air blue beforehand. It struck him then and strikes me now as an >>>>idiotic requirement. >>>> >>>>If there's an essay by Picasso unpacking cubism I'm unaware of it. How about >>>>Matisse on color theory? Haydn on the sonata form? Mozart on opera? >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>>Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Bob Grumman >>>>>Sent: Jul 7, 2011 12:43 PM >>>>>To: NewPoetry List >>>> >>>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis >>>>>Armstrong >>>>> >>>> >>>>>On 7/6/2011 6:05 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM, amy king ?wrote: >>>>>>> ? "Bob" - I wish you could hear yourself and your ridiculous, pretentious >>>>>>> proclamations. ?Louis was not an ignorant primitive: he studied hard as a >>>>>>> young player (learning to read music; playing light classics as part of >>the >>>>>>> gig as far back as 1926) AND he was one of the great autodidacts, >>listening >>>>>>> to tapes he made himself of his previous performances -- what to keep, >>what >>>>>>> to improve. ?Constant study. ?He worked very hard and he knew his craft. >>>>>> True that. There have been artists for whom Bob's characterization-- >>>>>> particularly of habits of study/meta-study-- would be much more >>>>>> fitting, but Louis Armstrong was a spectacularly poor choice to use as >>>>>> an example. >>>>>> >>>>>> In his own way, Armstrong spoke about as well about his art as anyone >>>>>> does... which is to say it's not particularly meaningful without the >>>>>> music to accompany and even then, mostly interesting for other >>>>>> reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> c >>>>> >>>>>What was "his own way?" ?In any case, I was going by the remark >>>>>attributed to him that if you have to ask about something you can't >>>>>understand it. ?I can't believe that anyone saying such a thing could >>>>>have any verbalizable conceptual knowledge (of significance) about >>>>>anything because he's saying that it's a waste of time to ask for >>>>>explanatory words, which implies that such words don't exist--and so >>>>>science and philosophy and every other kind of search for the truth is a >>>>>waste of time. >>>>> >>>>>--Bob >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 16:26:58 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:26:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <24654527.1310054917835.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24654527.1310054917835.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E161692.6000903@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 11:08 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Bob: You do realize that music is also a language. Musicians > communicate in it all the time, and their discussion of music with > other musicians is often in the language of music. Sure. And I'm sure they use a few words, too. Maybe it's even conceptual in a different way than I'm thinking of. Maybe, that is, it's averbally conceptual. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 16:31:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:31:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail .bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 11:31 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Why would it /need /to be? I know, I know--you'll have some > cockamamie reason. My cockamamie reason is that some people, like me (and Socrates), have a need to understand things. Others don't. Unfortunately, too many of them believe that because they don't, no one should. Yes, intellectual nihilists. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 15:27:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E161692.6000903@nut-n-but.net> References: <24654527.1310054917835.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E161692.6000903@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310066846.87807.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> averbally conceptual ... you may be on to something. Verbal thinking is mostly left brain ...?linear. Music ... and here, I'd like to see a CAT scan ... but I'd be willing to wager that music lights up more areas of the brain ... that musical thinking involves more left/right brain activity than verbal thinking. Wire up the writer and the Sax man. Observe the brain. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 4:26:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong On 7/7/2011 11:08 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: Bob: You do realize that music is also a language. Musicians communicate in it all the time, and their discussion of music with other musicians is often in the language of music. > Sure.? And I'm sure they use a few words, too.? Maybe it's even conceptual in a different way than I'm thinking of.? Maybe, that is, it's averbally conceptual. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 16:36:49 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:36:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E1618E1.2070904@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 11:47 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > > What we mean by explain may also be at issue. What does jazz, or > the sonata form, for that matter (by the way, Hal, I love Rosen on > sonata form and almost everything else. My musician friends love > him even more) mean to the profoundly deaf, no matter how > explained? At what point does the concept of the music supersede > it, if ever? > Why "supercede?" Why not just "accompany?" I think a huge problem in this area is the belief that art and criticism compete with each other. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 16:34:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:34:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail .bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E161855.8070204@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 11:45 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Some people are intelligent enough not to want explanations. > Dang, finally a statement so preposterous I can't argue with it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 16:42:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:42:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E15EA0D.3050303@louisiana.edu> References: <2348069.1310057272854.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15EA0D.3050303@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E161A2F.50404@nut-n-but.net> One of my best experiences in music was getting a record of a Mozart symphony with the score included and following something more than a hymn or the like in score for the first time. Same idea: the printed conceptualization (albeit not "explanation") of a work in one language along with the work in its other language. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jul 7 15:34:48 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail .bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> <4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Now who's making jokes? Amy From: Bob Grumman "...like me (and Socrates)..." --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 7 17:09:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:09:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail .bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu><4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net><4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net> <1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E16208F.3040800@nut-n-but.net> On 7/7/2011 2:34 PM, amy king wrote: > Now who's making jokes? > > Amy > > *From:* Bob Grumman > ** > "...like me (and Socrates)..." > > --Bob > Socrates and I are alike in no respect? I believe that some people are born with the ability to be logical, some not, so I won't bother advising you to take a course in reasoning. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 7 16:25:23 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:25:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] verses in your threads Message-ID: <8CE0AFB226F5680-1970-2A322@webmail-m138.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poetry-bomber-sews-poems-into-thrift-store-clothes_b33864 Poetry, Videos Poetry Bomber Sews Poems into Thrift Store Clothes By Jason Boog on July 7, 2011 2:00 PM In the video embedded above, Miami artist Agustina Woodgate illustrated the art of ?poetry bombing,? sewing snippets of poems into thrift store clothes. Here?s more from Miami New Times: ?Graffiti: The art of marking a surface to convey a message. Poetry: The echoes of the sound of your synapse relays crackling. Combine the two and you?ve got poetry bombing, the method Agustina Woodgate is using to realize her project for the O, Miami poetry festival. For the past month, the artist has been sewing verse by Sylvia Plath and Li Po into jackets, pants, and dresses on thrift store shelves all over the county.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 7 17:08:47 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:08:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: THEODATE Message-ID: <8CE0B0132537093-1970-2AF13@webmail-m138.sysops.aol.com> THEODATE a seasonal on-line poetry journal Now accepting on-line submissions for its inaugural issue: Fall/Winter 2011-12 THEODATE accepts only on-line submissions of unpublished poetry for its New Works section and The Daily Ekphrasis http://theodate.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 19:03:20 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 18:03:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Azerbaijan Love Songs Message-ID: Azerbaijan Love Songs 1. Woodster fundavement eau certati hijah endent erly onship, heor amination tating red hot stove, oh darling. 2. Loosin yelav ensareetz faciti bon tempu, red-hot darling is my stovling jan a loosin, inence vided. 3. Sential or as anthrolandscape ameable notso flotail, on my stove, my red-hot starlink cerning efter amigstad. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 8 09:54:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:54:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> I can see being offput by Eliot's style and High Church manner, but I would say his criticism was second to none. Very thoughtfull and insightful critical work along a range ot literary topics . A good counterweight to the fiat-style of Pound. Silliman is good but with some large blindspots.. Then again he's helped me read some poets whose work I was blind to. I'm very fond of those Lawrence essays.. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 3:16 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Eliot was a pompous bore when he did criticism. I wish D. H. Lawrence included him in his Studies of Classic American Literature. Lawrence would have attacked Elliot's petty, class pretensions. The dopey Tory part of Eliot. Of course, Lawrence was misguided too. Silliman seems the best populist observer of contemporary American poetry. From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 12:43:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Rosen's much more fun when he's playing sonatas than when he's writing about them. I agree though that many poets are more fun when they're writing about poetry than when they're writing poetry. Eliot's not one of those. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 8 09:57:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:57:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E16208F.3040800@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu><4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net><4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net><1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E16208F.3040800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE0B8E1312D84C-D14-40D5@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Your more like Protagarus (the sophist), "Man (meaning me) is the measure of all thiings." Or Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 5:09 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong On 7/7/2011 2:34 PM, amy king wrote: Now who's making jokes? Amy From: Bob Grumman "...like me (and Socrates)..." --Bob Socrates and I are alike in no respect? I believe that some people are born with the ability to be logical, some not, so I won't bother advising you to take a course in reasoning. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 10:17:21 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1310134641.83166.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yeah ... I may simply be confusing Eliot's cultural criticism (the Tory bullshit) with his literary writings. I've recently read a work by Eliot concerning his dramatic exercises. He seems genial enough when he's sticks to Lit. D.H. Lawrence, however, is in a class by himself. Studies In Classic American Literature, especially the Whitman piece, part rant, part manifesto, is a visionary knock out. What Lawrence was able to accomplish in such a short life (died at 43) is amazing. I'm not sure why I even mentioned Silliman. Eliot, after all, was an early 20th century modernist. A world entirely different from most anything that captures Silliman's attention. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 9:54:18 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics I can see being offput by Eliot's style and High Church manner, but I would say his criticism was second to none. Very thoughtfull and insightful critical work along a range ot literary topics . A good counterweight to the fiat-style of Pound. Silliman is good but with some large blindspots.. Then again he's helped me read some poets whose work I was blind to. I'm very fond of those Lawrence essays.. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 3:16 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Eliot was a pompous bore when he did criticism. I wish D. H. Lawrence included him in his Studies of Classic American Literature. Lawrence would have attacked Elliot's petty, class pretensions. The dopey Tory part of Eliot. Of course, Lawrence was misguided too. Silliman seems the best populist observer of contemporary American poetry. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 12:43:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong Rosen's much more fun when he's playing sonatas than when he's writing about them. I agree though that many poets are more fun when they're writing about poetry than when they're writing poetry. Eliot's not one of those. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 8 11:30:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 10:30:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <8CE0B8E1312D84C-D14-40D5@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net><4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><1310046519.61710.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail .bf1.yahoo.com><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu><4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net><4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net><1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E16208F.3040800@ nut-n-but.net> <8CE0B8E1312D84C-D14-40D5@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E1722A8.3030907@nut-n-but.net> On 7/8/2011 8:57 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > You're more like Protagarus (the sophist), "Man (meaning me) is the > measure of all thiings." > Or > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > I've always liked that saying but have also had trouble with it. How, for instance, is man the measure of the nature of sub-atomic particles? I'd go with "Man's senses (aided as well as unaided) are the measurers of all things"--with an emphasis that I /don't/ mean /me/ by "man," but a consensus of rational human beings. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 10:30:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:30:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: <4E1722A8.3030907@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net> <4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net> <4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net> <1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8E1312D84C-D14-40D5@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <4E1722A8.3030907@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Grumman is the measure of all things. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/8/2011 8:57 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > You're more like Protagarus (the sophist), "Man (meaning me) is the measure > of all thiings." > Or > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > > > I've always liked that saying but have also had trouble with it. How, for > instance, is man the measure of the nature of sub-atomic particles? I'd go > with "Man's senses (aided as well as unaided) are the measurers of all > things"--with an emphasis that I *don't* mean *me* by "man," but a > consensus of rational human beings. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 8 12:03:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:03:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net><1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E172A42.2060004@nut-n-but.net> On 7/8/2011 8:54 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I can see being offput by Eliot's style and High Church manner, but I > would say his criticism was second to none. Very thoughtfull and > insightful critical work along a range ot literary topics . A good > counterweight to the fiat-style of Pound. > Silliman is good but with some large blindspots.. Then again he's > helped me read some poets whose work I was blind to. Silliman has been good for getting some discussion of non-W work going but as a critic? Good grief, he can't even define language poetry, which is what he's known for as a poet. Not that he isn't a fairly good practical critic of a few kinds of poetry, but Logan and Vendler are better practical critics of their kind of poetry. I still don't know of a visible practical critic with any kind of range. Which reminds me: I recently tried to read--damn, I seem to have lost it. A book I had with me at the rehab center I went to after my hip operation. Its author was Heather something. I got it because it included pages on Tom Phillips's /A Humument/. I found it near-impenetrably academic, and at times vacuous. Next to one early paragraph a previous reader had scribbled "Is this useful?" It was about how we are always in the present--the present is really all we ever have available to us. Gush to me, but no doubt rilly profound to others. I live in a present full of the past and containing expectations of the future, myself. The idea of paring a moment down to nothing but the genuine now seems to me ridiculous, if it were possible. But it looks like Heather something is safe from a scathing Grumman critique that ten people may read, for I doubt I'll be able to find her book, and I'm not going to buy another copy. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 8 12:31:49 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:31:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cy Twombly, Idiosyncratic Painter, Dies at 83 - Louis Armstrong In-Reply-To: References: <4E147988.5040602@nut-n-but.net> <4E159BE3.8070700@nut-n-but.net><4E15D055.9090602@louisiana.edu> <4E15E848.80703@nut-n-but.net><4E16179D.1070103@nut-n-but.net><1310067288.47796.YahooMailNeo@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8CE0 B8E1312D84C-D14-40D5@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com><4E1722A8.3030907@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E1730F5.3020104@nut-n-but.net> On 7/8/2011 9:30 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Grumman is the measure of all things. Well, not quite, Hal, since you are clearly the measure of Grumman. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 8 12:53:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:53:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan in the Latest New Criterion In-Reply-To: <4E172A42.2060004@nut-n-but.net> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net><1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><8CE0B8DAA26 E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <4E172A42.2060004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E1735FA.3060301@nut-n-but.net> I walked four miles today. My physical therapist and my surgeon are agreed that I shouldn't walk more than half a mile. But I had somewhere to go, and have this weird self-belief in my ability to walk. I don't have the same self-belief in any other physical ability so haven't done and won't do anything else I'm not supposed to. I'm not sure what my point is--maybe my aconceptual knowledge versus conceptual expertise. But also to explain why I'm too tired to say more, today, about William Logan in the latest issue of /New Criterion/ except that he has finally actually written about a poet I consider avant-garde (albeit, barely), Rae Armantrout. I guess he had to since she's a Pulitzer Prize winner and has been a member of the Academy of American Poets and otherwise credentialed for quite a while. He pans her, of course. Ignorantly, of course. Okay, /semi/-ignorantly. The main thing is that he discusses her--for over a page. Bringing the /New Criterion/ briefly up to 1980. He also discusses Wilbur's latest, but I only read the part about Armantrout. Tired. I'll read the rest of Logan's commentary, though--I read every word of every issue of the /New Criterion/. I figure it gives me a good anchor in 1950 to sail into newer things from. I truly wish there were a magazine around as good about 2000 as it is about 1950 (and those repeating in in 2011). --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jul 8 14:55:40 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 10:55:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Agreed about Eliot's criticism. There is an interesting piece in the most recent issue of the journal _A Public Space_, in which Denis Donoghue looks at the evolution of Eliot's criticism of Shakespeare and the important influences on him at the time. c -- Chris Lott On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:54 AM, wrote: > I can see being offput by Eliot's style and High Church manner, but I would > say his criticism was second to none. From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 15:30:18 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Another 1st rate poet/critic: Seamus Heaney. & Bernstein has his moments. How many poets are proficient or excel at other types of writing. Fiction, for instance. Or Drama. Robert Penn Warren won 3 pulitzers, one for fiction. Denis Johnson (my personal favorite) is a great fiction writer, and one of the best poets around, although he hasn't published any poetry in over a decade. Has anyone read The Incognito Lounge? Ismael Reed excels in drama/fiction/and poetry. Polymath writers. They're not necessarily a rare breed, but consider them the most gifted. & D.H. Lawrence is probably the greatest writer/poet/dramatist/short story writer/travel writer. ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 2:55:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics Agreed about Eliot's criticism. There is an interesting piece in the most recent issue of the journal _A Public Space_, in which Denis Donoghue looks at the evolution of Eliot's criticism of Shakespeare and the important influences on him at the time. c -- Chris Lott On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:54 AM,? wrote: > I can see being offput by Eliot's style and High Church manner, but I would > say his criticism was second to none. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jul 8 15:33:31 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:33:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't know that I've ever read any of Denis Johnson's criticism, but I've read all of his fiction and poetry (I think). I was disappointed with some of his later novels, particularly _Tree of Smoke_, but _Jesus' Son_ remains a favorite short story collection by anyone, and I greatly enjoyed _Fiskadoro_, _The Stars at Noon_, and _Already Dead_. c -- Chris Lott On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Another 1st rate poet/critic: Seamus Heaney. & Bernstein has his moments. > How many poets are proficient or excel at other types of writing. Fiction, > for instance. Or Drama. Robert Penn Warren won 3 pulitzers, one for fiction. > Denis Johnson (my personal favorite) is a great fiction writer, and one of > the best poets around, although he hasn't published any poetry in over a > decade. Has anyone read The Incognito Lounge? Ismael Reed excels in > drama/fiction/and poetry. Polymath writers. They're not necessarily a rare > breed, but consider them the most gifted. & D.H. Lawrence is probably the > greatest writer/poet/dramatist/short story writer/travel writer. From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 15:41:57 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> As usual, I'm a little off the topic (it's an ADD thing). Denis Johnson hasn't written criticism, but his nonfiction (Seek: Reports? from the Edges of America & Beyond) is excellent. I, too, found his National Book Award Tree of Smoke disappionting. It lacked? Johnson't energy and whacked?humour. His last novel, Nobody Move, is classic noir. Johnson probably does noir better than anyone since Chandler. Or, more accurately, along with James Ellroy, Johnson's the best. &?I miss his poetry. ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 3:33:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics I don't know that I've ever read any of Denis Johnson's criticism, but I've read all of his fiction and poetry (I think). I was disappointed with some of his later novels, particularly _Tree of Smoke_, but _Jesus' Son_ remains a favorite short story collection by anyone, and I greatly enjoyed _Fiskadoro_, _The Stars at Noon_, and _Already Dead_. c -- Chris Lott On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Another 1st rate poet/critic: Seamus Heaney. & Bernstein has his moments. > How many poets are proficient or excel at other types of writing. Fiction, > for instance. Or Drama. Robert Penn Warren won 3 pulitzers, one for fiction. > Denis Johnson (my personal favorite) is a great fiction writer, and one of > the best poets around, although he hasn't published any poetry in over a > decade. Has anyone read The Incognito Lounge? Ismael Reed excels in > drama/fiction/and poetry. Polymath writers. They're not necessarily a rare > breed, but consider them the most gifted. & D.H. Lawrence is probably the > greatest writer/poet/dramatist/short story writer/travel writer. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jul 8 15:57:41 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:57:41 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have _Nobody Move_ but haven't read it. That's high praise indeed. Did you like Pynchon's stab at noir? I also wish Johnson would publish some more poetry... c On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, stephen russell wrote: > As usual, I'm a little off the topic (it's an ADD thing). Denis Johnson > hasn't written criticism, but his nonfiction (Seek: Reports? from the Edges > of America & Beyond) is excellent. I, too, found his National Book Award > Tree of Smoke disappionting. It lacked? Johnson't energy and whacked?humour. > His last novel, Nobody Move, is classic noir. Johnson probably does noir > better than anyone since Chandler. Or, more accurately, along with James > Ellroy, Johnson's the best. &?I miss his poetry. From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 17:59:28 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 21:59:28 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Message-ID: World Disclosure Day - July 8 www.worlddisclosureday.org Washington, DC - On July 8, 1947 General Roger Ramey held a press event at the 8th Army Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas in which he changed an earlier press release announcing a recovered crashed disk near Roswell, New Mexico to that of a retrieved Rawin weather balloon. This was the informal beginning of the now 64-year truth embargo regarding an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Five years after Roswell in July of 1952 a plethora of sightings took place over Washington, DC creating great concern among those responsible for the nation's security. Subsequently the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned a classified panel to study and assess the phenomenon and the growing public awareness of extraterrestrial craft in the skies over the United States. The panel first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard Percy Robertson, a physicist, CIA employee and director of the Defense Department Weapons Evaluation Group. The Robertson Panel's report concluded the extraterrestrial craft were not a direct threat to national security, but the public's growing interest and engagement of the phenomenon was a threat. Consequently, President Truman's decision to reverse the Roswell crashed disk explanation in 1947 became a highly classified formal government policy in 1953. Official acknowledgement would be withheld and public awareness of the phenomenon would be suppressed by any and all means. This policy was very much connected to grave concerns over the developing cold war and nuclear arms race and was certainly legal under the National Security Act of 1947. For this reason Paradigm Research Group has worked to replace the term "UFO Cover-up" with "Truth Embargo."Twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War it is time for this policy of embargo to end.Disclosure with a capital "D" is the formal acknowledgement by world governments of the extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and is the primary goal of a growing international truth movement. The purpose of World Disclosure Day is to provide a focal point for people and organizations to come together to assert their right to know extraordinary information being withheld from them by their governments. World Disclosure Day will also help broaden public awareness of the Disclosure process and those organizations involved in the advocacy work. The date July 8 was chosen to close the circle back to the Ramey press event in July of 1947.People and organizations from every nation can register their endorsement of World Disclosure Day at the website. Endorsements from around the world are already pouring in and being archived. Here is how supporters can help make this international effort a success.1) spread the word via email lists, Facebook, Twitter and other social media accounts.2) create graphic banners/poster promoting WDD and send it to PRG to be distributed with attribution.3) create a video promoting WDD and put in on the Internet. Provide PRG the link so it can promote the video.4) let local TV and radio talk shows know about WDD.5) join the WDD Facebook Page and the PRG Facebook Page.6) grab banners from the WDD website for placement on other websites.7) looking ahead to 2012, plan events for July 8 to draw attention to the public's right to know the truth.8) help educate friends, family and colleagues about the mission of the Disclosure advocacy movement.Note:on the day the first nation comes forward to finally and formally acknowledge the extraterrestrial presence, that day will then become World Disclosure Day historically recognizing the most profound event in human history.Relevant websites World Disclosure Day - www.worlddisclosureday.org WDD Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/3sjk3xo Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmresearchgroup.org PRG Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/47b2xg8 Contact: Stephen Bassett, Ex. Director 202-215-8344 prg at paradigmresearchgroup.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 19:05:39 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 18:05:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and I always will be. And I'm proud of it! "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, R Dillon wrote: > > *World Disclosure Day - July 8* > www.worlddisclosureday.org > > *Washington, DC* - On July 8, 1947 General Roger Ramey held a press event > at the 8th Army Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas in which he > changed an earlier press release announcing a recovered crashed disk near > Roswell, New Mexico to that of a retrieved Rawin weather balloon. This was > the informal beginning of the now 64-year truth embargo regarding an > extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Five years after > Roswell in July of 1952 a plethora of sightings took place over Washington, > DC creating great concern among those responsible for the nation's security. > Subsequently the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned a classified panel > to study and assess the phenomenon and the growing public awareness of > extraterrestrial craft in the skies over the United States. The panel > first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard Percy > Robertson, a physicist, CIA employee and director of the Defense > Department Weapons Evaluation Group. > The Robertson Panel's report concluded the extraterrestrial craft were not > a direct threat to national security, but the public's growing interest and > engagement of the phenomenon *was* a threat. Consequently, President > Truman's decision to reverse the Roswell crashed disk explanation in 1947 > became a highly classified formal government policy in 1953. Official > acknowledgement would be withheld and public awareness of the phenomenon > would be suppressed by any and all means. This policy was very much > connected to grave concerns over the developing cold war and nuclear arms > race and was certainly legal under the National Security Act of 1947. For > this reason Paradigm Research Group has worked to replace the term "UFO > Cover-up" with "Truth Embargo." > *Twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the > Cold War it is time for this policy of embargo to end.* > *Disclosure* with a capital "D" is the formal acknowledgement by world > governments of the extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and is > the primary goal of a growing international truth movement. The purpose of > World Disclosure Day is to provide a focal point for people and > organizations to come together to assert their right to know extraordinary > information being withheld from them by their governments. World Disclosure > Day will also help broaden public awareness of the Disclosure process and > those organizations involved in the advocacy work. The date July 8 was > chosen to close the circle back to the Ramey press event in July of 1947. > People and organizations from every nation can register their endorsement > of World Disclosure Day at the website. Endorsements from around the world > are already pouring in and being archived. Here is how supporters can help > make this international effort a success. > > 1) spread the word via email lists, Facebook, Twitter and other social > media accounts. > > 2) create graphic banners/poster promoting WDD and send it to PRG to be > distributed with attribution. > > 3) create a video promoting WDD and put in on the Internet. Provide PRG the > link so it can promote the video. > > 4) let local TV and radio talk shows know about WDD. > > 5) join the WDD Facebook Page and the PRG Facebook Page. > > 6) grab banners from the WDD website for placement on other websites. > > 7) looking ahead to 2012, plan events for July 8 to draw attention to the > public's right to know the truth. > > 8) help educate friends, family and colleagues about the mission of the > Disclosure advocacy movement. > > *Note:*on the day the first nation comes forward to finally and formally > acknowledge the extraterrestrial presence, that day will then become World > Disclosure Day historically recognizing the most profound event in human > history. > *Relevant websites > *World Disclosure Day - www.worlddisclosureday.orgWDD Facebook: > http://tinyurl.com/3sjk3xo > Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmresearchgroup.orgPRG Facebook: > http://tinyurl.com/47b2xg8 > > *Contact:* Stephen Bassett, Ex. Director > 202-215-8344 > prg at paradigmresearchgroup.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 19:51:25 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue planet in a system near Sirius. - Jbloknoo On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, R Dillon < > elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> *World Disclosure Day - July 8* >> www.worlddisclosureday.org >> >> >> *Washington, DC* - On July 8, 1947 General Roger Ramey held a press event >> at the 8th Army Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas in which he >> changed an earlier press release announcing a recovered crashed disk near >> Roswell, New Mexico to that of a retrieved Rawin weather balloon. This was >> the informal beginning of the now 64-year truth embargo regarding an >> extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Five years after >> Roswell in July of 1952 a plethora of sightings took place over Washington, >> DC creating great concern among those responsible for the nation's security. >> Subsequently the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned a classified panel >> to study and assess the phenomenon and the growing public awareness of >> extraterrestrial craft in the skies over the United States. The panel >> first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard >> Percy Robertson, a physicist, CIA employee and director of the Defense >> Department Weapons Evaluation Group. >> The Robertson Panel's report concluded the extraterrestrial craft were >> not a direct threat to national security, but the public's growing interest >> and engagement of the phenomenon *was* a threat. Consequently, President >> Truman's decision to reverse the Roswell crashed disk explanation in 1947 >> became a highly classified formal government policy in 1953. Official >> acknowledgement would be withheld and public awareness of the phenomenon >> would be suppressed by any and all means. This policy was very much >> connected to grave concerns over the developing cold war and nuclear arms >> race and was certainly legal under the National Security Act of 1947. For >> this reason Paradigm Research Group has worked to replace the term "UFO >> Cover-up" with "Truth Embargo." >> *Twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the >> Cold War it is time for this policy of embargo to end.* >> *Disclosure* with a capital "D" is the formal acknowledgement by world >> governments of the extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and is >> the primary goal of a growing international truth movement. The purpose of >> World Disclosure Day is to provide a focal point for people and >> organizations to come together to assert their right to know extraordinary >> information being withheld from them by their governments. World Disclosure >> Day will also help broaden public awareness of the Disclosure process and >> those organizations involved in the advocacy work. The date July 8 was >> chosen to close the circle back to the Ramey press event in July of 1947. >> People and organizations from every nation can register their endorsement >> of World Disclosure Day at the website. Endorsements from around the world >> are already pouring in and being archived. Here is how supporters can help >> make this international effort a success. >> >> 1) spread the word via email lists, Facebook, Twitter and other social >> media accounts. >> >> 2) create graphic banners/poster promoting WDD and send it to PRG to be >> distributed with attribution. >> >> 3) create a video promoting WDD and put in on the Internet. Provide PRG >> the link so it can promote the video. >> >> 4) let local TV and radio talk shows know about WDD. >> >> 5) join the WDD Facebook Page and the PRG Facebook Page. >> >> 6) grab banners from the WDD website for placement on other websites. >> >> 7) looking ahead to 2012, plan events for July 8 to draw attention to the >> public's right to know the truth. >> >> 8) help educate friends, family and colleagues about the mission of the >> Disclosure advocacy movement. >> >> *Note:*on the day the first nation comes forward to finally and formally >> acknowledge the extraterrestrial presence, that day will then become World >> Disclosure Day historically recognizing the most profound event in human >> history. >> *Relevant websites >> *World Disclosure Day - www.worlddisclosureday.orgWDD Facebook: >> http://tinyurl.com/3sjk3xo >> Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmresearchgroup.orgPRG Facebook: >> http://tinyurl.com/47b2xg8 >> >> *Contact:* Stephen Bassett, Ex. Director >> 202-215-8344 >> prg at paradigmresearchgroup.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 20:17:16 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:17:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not at liberty to say. All I can tell you is that I'm a card-carrying member of the Milky Way Galaxy, as many of us are. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:51 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue > planet in a system near Sirius. > > - Jbloknoo > > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and >> I always will be. And I'm proud of it! >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, R Dillon < >> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> *World Disclosure Day - July 8* >>> www.worlddisclosureday.org >>> >>> >>> *Washington, DC* - On July 8, 1947 General Roger Ramey held a press >>> event at the 8th Army Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas in which >>> he changed an earlier press release announcing a recovered crashed disk near >>> Roswell, New Mexico to that of a retrieved Rawin weather balloon. This was >>> the informal beginning of the now 64-year truth embargo regarding an >>> extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Five years after >>> Roswell in July of 1952 a plethora of sightings took place over Washington, >>> DC creating great concern among those responsible for the nation's security. >>> Subsequently the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned a classified panel >>> to study and assess the phenomenon and the growing public awareness of >>> extraterrestrial craft in the skies over the United States. The panel >>> first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard >>> Percy Robertson, a physicist, CIA employee and director of the Defense >>> Department Weapons Evaluation Group. >>> The Robertson Panel's report concluded the extraterrestrial craft were >>> not a direct threat to national security, but the public's growing interest >>> and engagement of the phenomenon *was* a threat. Consequently, President >>> Truman's decision to reverse the Roswell crashed disk explanation in 1947 >>> became a highly classified formal government policy in 1953. Official >>> acknowledgement would be withheld and public awareness of the phenomenon >>> would be suppressed by any and all means. This policy was very much >>> connected to grave concerns over the developing cold war and nuclear arms >>> race and was certainly legal under the National Security Act of 1947. For >>> this reason Paradigm Research Group has worked to replace the term "UFO >>> Cover-up" with "Truth Embargo." >>> *Twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the >>> Cold War it is time for this policy of embargo to end.* >>> *Disclosure* with a capital "D" is the formal acknowledgement by world >>> governments of the extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and is >>> the primary goal of a growing international truth movement. The purpose of >>> World Disclosure Day is to provide a focal point for people and >>> organizations to come together to assert their right to know extraordinary >>> information being withheld from them by their governments. World Disclosure >>> Day will also help broaden public awareness of the Disclosure process and >>> those organizations involved in the advocacy work. The date July 8 was >>> chosen to close the circle back to the Ramey press event in July of 1947. >>> People and organizations from every nation can register their endorsement >>> of World Disclosure Day at the website. Endorsements from around the world >>> are already pouring in and being archived. Here is how supporters can help >>> make this international effort a success. >>> >>> 1) spread the word via email lists, Facebook, Twitter and other social >>> media accounts. >>> >>> 2) create graphic banners/poster promoting WDD and send it to PRG to be >>> distributed with attribution. >>> >>> 3) create a video promoting WDD and put in on the Internet. Provide PRG >>> the link so it can promote the video. >>> >>> 4) let local TV and radio talk shows know about WDD. >>> >>> 5) join the WDD Facebook Page and the PRG Facebook Page. >>> >>> 6) grab banners from the WDD website for placement on other websites. >>> >>> 7) looking ahead to 2012, plan events for July 8 to draw attention to the >>> public's right to know the truth. >>> >>> 8) help educate friends, family and colleagues about the mission of the >>> Disclosure advocacy movement. >>> >>> *Note:*on the day the first nation comes forward to finally and formally >>> acknowledge the extraterrestrial presence, that day will then become World >>> Disclosure Day historically recognizing the most profound event in human >>> history. >>> *Relevant websites >>> *World Disclosure Day - www.worlddisclosureday.orgWDD Facebook: >>> http://tinyurl.com/3sjk3xo >>> Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmresearchgroup.orgPRG Facebook: >>> http://tinyurl.com/47b2xg8 >>> >>> *Contact:* Stephen Bassett, Ex. Director >>> 202-215-8344 >>> prg at paradigmresearchgroup.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 21:03:48 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 18:03:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: zzzztttt On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I'm not at liberty to say. All I can tell you is that I'm a card-carrying > member of the Milky Way Galaxy, as many of us are. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:51 PM, James Cervantes > wrote: > >> Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue >> planet in a system near Sirius. >> >> - Jbloknoo >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, >>> and I always will be. And I'm proud of it! >>> >>> >>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>> --Ezra Pound >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, R Dillon < >>> elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> *World Disclosure Day - July 8* >>>> www.worlddisclosureday.org >>>> >>>> >>>> *Washington, DC* - On July 8, 1947 General Roger Ramey held a press >>>> event at the 8th Army Air Force Headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas in which >>>> he changed an earlier press release announcing a recovered crashed disk near >>>> Roswell, New Mexico to that of a retrieved Rawin weather balloon. This was >>>> the informal beginning of the now 64-year truth embargo regarding an >>>> extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Five years after >>>> Roswell in July of 1952 a plethora of sightings took place over Washington, >>>> DC creating great concern among those responsible for the nation's security. >>>> Subsequently the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned a classified panel >>>> to study and assess the phenomenon and the growing public awareness of >>>> extraterrestrial craft in the skies over the United States. The panel >>>> first met formally on January 14, 1953 under the direction of Howard >>>> Percy Robertson, a physicist, CIA employee and director of the Defense >>>> Department Weapons Evaluation Group. >>>> The Robertson Panel's report concluded the extraterrestrial craft were >>>> not a direct threat to national security, but the public's growing interest >>>> and engagement of the phenomenon *was* a threat. Consequently, >>>> President Truman's decision to reverse the Roswell crashed disk explanation >>>> in 1947 became a highly classified formal government policy in 1953. >>>> Official acknowledgement would be withheld and public awareness of the >>>> phenomenon would be suppressed by any and all means. This policy was very >>>> much connected to grave concerns over the developing cold war and nuclear >>>> arms race and was certainly legal under the National Security Act of 1947. >>>> For this reason Paradigm Research Group has worked to replace the term "UFO >>>> Cover-up" with "Truth Embargo." >>>> *Twenty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the >>>> Cold War it is time for this policy of embargo to end.* >>>> *Disclosure* with a capital "D" is the formal acknowledgement by world >>>> governments of the extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and is >>>> the primary goal of a growing international truth movement. The purpose of >>>> World Disclosure Day is to provide a focal point for people and >>>> organizations to come together to assert their right to know extraordinary >>>> information being withheld from them by their governments. World Disclosure >>>> Day will also help broaden public awareness of the Disclosure process and >>>> those organizations involved in the advocacy work. The date July 8 was >>>> chosen to close the circle back to the Ramey press event in July of 1947. >>>> People and organizations from every nation can register their >>>> endorsement of World Disclosure Day at the website. Endorsements from around >>>> the world are already pouring in and being archived. Here is how supporters >>>> can help make this international effort a success. >>>> >>>> 1) spread the word via email lists, Facebook, Twitter and other social >>>> media accounts. >>>> >>>> 2) create graphic banners/poster promoting WDD and send it to PRG to be >>>> distributed with attribution. >>>> >>>> 3) create a video promoting WDD and put in on the Internet. Provide PRG >>>> the link so it can promote the video. >>>> >>>> 4) let local TV and radio talk shows know about WDD. >>>> >>>> 5) join the WDD Facebook Page and the PRG Facebook Page. >>>> >>>> 6) grab banners from the WDD website for placement on other websites. >>>> >>>> 7) looking ahead to 2012, plan events for July 8 to draw attention to >>>> the public's right to know the truth. >>>> >>>> 8) help educate friends, family and colleagues about the mission of the >>>> Disclosure advocacy movement. >>>> >>>> *Note:*on the day the first nation comes forward to finally and >>>> formally acknowledge the extraterrestrial presence, that day will then >>>> become World Disclosure Day historically recognizing the most profound event >>>> in human history. >>>> *Relevant websites >>>> *World Disclosure Day - www.worlddisclosureday.orgWDD Facebook: >>>> http://tinyurl.com/3sjk3xo >>>> Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmresearchgroup.orgPRG Facebook: >>>> http://tinyurl.com/47b2xg8 >>>> >>>> *Contact:* Stephen Bassett, Ex. Director >>>> 202-215-8344 >>>> prg at paradigmresearchgroup.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 9 00:08:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 23:08:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E17D450.4080502@nut-n-but.net> You're both nuts. All the aliens left after they saw how badly the Poetry Establishment treated me, mine being the only Earthling poetry they could stand. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 9 00:10:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 23:10:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E17D4BB.9080808@nut-n-but.net> Wait. I may be mixed up. The aliens may /be/ the Poetry Establishment. . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 9 14:54:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:54:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E18A3C8.2070205@nut-n-but.net> Every once in a while I issue a challenge to participants in New-Poetry such as the one concerning a mathematical poem of mine I gave the URL for and asked for arguments as to why it was not a poem, since I've often been told that my work is not poetry. No one has ever taken up one of my challenges. Nonetheless, here is another one. Go to: http://poeticks.com/bob-grummans-small-press-review-columns/column028-augustseptember-1997 and tell me why it and my other columns in /Small Press Review/ during the past 18 years are not worth reading or even mentioning. I thought of bringing it up because I've been re-posting my /SPR/ reviews to my blog recently and especially liked this one. Its first half is just news but the rest of it is criticism--just practical criticism, but better criticism than anything you'd find in publications like /Poetry/--unless you think there's no poetry worth writing about outside of Wilshberia, and Pre-Wilshberia. There's a one-paragraph example of me going where no one else would want to (probably)--but I still think anyone concerned with the language /should/ want to. The one about the letter /t/ as a letter, a sound, and part of a single sound, as in /th/ or /tw/. It's not easy to follow--I myself had to read it three times to figure out what I was talking about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat Jul 9 14:35:32 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 11:35:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Message-ID: Not too near Sirius, I'd guess > Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 > From: James Cervantes > > Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue > planet > in a system near Sirius. > > - Jbloknoo > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, > and > > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! > > > > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > > --Ezra Pound > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 14:27:58 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:27:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Challenge In-Reply-To: <4E18A3C8.2070205@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E18A3C8.2070205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Forget it, B-bob. There's more to poetry than is dreamt of in your schema. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > Every once in a while I issue a challenge to participants in New-Poetry > such as the one concerning a mathematical poem of mine I gave the URL for > and asked for arguments as to why it was not a poem, since I've often been > told that my work is not poetry. No one has ever taken up one of my > challenges. > > Nonetheless, here is another one. Go to: > > > http://poeticks.com/bob-grummans-small-press-review-columns/column028-augustseptember-1997 > > and tell me why it and my other columns in *Small Press Review* during the > past 18 years are not worth reading or even mentioning. I thought of > bringing it up because I've been re-posting my *SPR* reviews to my blog > recently and especially liked this one. Its first half is just news but > the rest of it is criticism--just practical criticism, but better criticism > than anything you'd find in publications like *Poetry*--unless you think > there's no poetry worth writing about outside of Wilshberia, and > Pre-Wilshberia. > > There's a one-paragraph example of me going where no one else would want to > (probably)--but I still think anyone concerned with the language *should*want to. The one about the letter > *t* as a letter, a sound, and part of a single sound, as in *th* or *tw*. > It's not easy to follow--I myself had to read it three times to figure out > what I was talking about. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 9 16:18:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:18:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Challenge In-Reply-To: References: <4E18A3C8.2070205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E18B79D.9020804@nut-n-but.net> On 7/9/2011 1:27 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Forget it, B-bob. There's more to poetry than is dreamt of in your schema. Name one thing. Oops, sorry, Hal. I forgot you don't believe in naming things. Nice original allusion to Will, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 16:16:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:16:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Challenge In-Reply-To: <4E18B79D.9020804@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E18A3C8.2070205@nut-n-but.net> <4E18B79D.9020804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Not a matter of belief, B-bob, but one of indifference. Things get along quite well without names, but I don't mind using names if they're handy (which most of yours are not). "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/9/2011 1:27 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Forget it, B-bob. There's more to poetry than is dreamt of in your schema. > > > Name one thing. Oops, sorry, Hal. I forgot you don't believe in naming > things. Nice original allusion to Will, though. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 9 16:19:22 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> no kidding. Pynchon would probably over complicate the genre, but I'm interested. Libra, by Don Dellio, has a noir feel. Super creepy, beautiful prose. ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 3:57:41 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics I have _Nobody Move_ but haven't read it. That's high praise indeed. Did you like Pynchon's stab at noir? I also wish Johnson would publish some more poetry... c On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, stephen russell wrote: > As usual, I'm a little off the topic (it's an ADD thing). Denis Johnson > hasn't written criticism, but his nonfiction (Seek: Reports from the Edges > of America & Beyond) is excellent. I, too, found his National Book Award > Tree of Smoke disappionting. It lacked Johnson't energy and whacked humour. > His last novel, Nobody Move, is classic noir. Johnson probably does noir > better than anyone since Chandler. Or, more accurately, along with James > Ellroy, Johnson's the best. & I miss his poetry. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 9 16:21:57 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I was going to stay in the closet, but since it's ET pride day, then fuck it. Where's the parade? ________________________________ From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 2:35:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Not too near Sirius, I'd guess Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 >From: James Cervantes > >Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue planet >in a system near Sirius. > >- Jbloknoo > >On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and >> I always will be. And I'm proud of it! >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 17:24:35 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:24:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We don't do parades. We dance from string to string through the universe. - Jim (humanoid name) On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:21 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I was going to stay in the closet, but since it's ET pride day, then fuck > it. Where's the parade? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Crisman Cooley > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sat, July 9, 2011 2:35:32 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! > > Not too near Sirius, I'd guess > > > >> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 >> From: James Cervantes >> >> Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue >> planet >> in a system near Sirius. >> >> - Jbloknoo >> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson >> wrote: >> >> > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, >> and >> > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! >> > >> > >> > "Literature is news that stays news." >> > --Ezra Pound >> > >> > Hal >> > >> > Halvard Johnson >> > ================ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat Jul 9 17:34:02 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 16:34:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E18C94A.9050001@louisiana.edu> Has Robert Coover's new book, _Noir_, been mentioned yet? I haven't got through it yet, but it seems fun, and much dedicated to hard-boiled dicks and film noir. Jerry On 7/9/2011 3:19 PM, stephen russell wrote: > no kidding. Pynchon would probably over complicate the genre, but I'm > interested. Libra, by Don Dellio, has a noir feel. Super creepy, > beautiful prose. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Lott > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Fri, July 8, 2011 3:57:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics > > I have _Nobody Move_ but haven't read it. That's high praise indeed. > Did you like Pynchon's stab at noir? > > I also wish Johnson would publish some more poetry... > > c > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, stephen russell > > > wrote: > > As usual, I'm a little off the topic (it's an ADD thing). Denis Johnson > > hasn't written criticism, but his nonfiction (Seek: Reports from > the Edges > > of America & Beyond) is excellent. I, too, found his National Book Award > > Tree of Smoke disappionting. It lacked Johnson't energy and > whacked humour. > > His last novel, Nobody Move, is classic noir. Johnson probably does noir > > better than anyone since Chandler. Or, more accurately, along with James > > Ellroy, Johnson's the best. & I miss his poetry. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Jul 10 00:36:26 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 04:36:26 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Shakespeare and Pound and Borges were open to the Visitors and their ships. But, I've noticed that American poets of a certain ilk cannot really engage or admit the ET issue. It can't be because most American poets are "Liberals" because James Earl Carter filed a report with the FBI regarding his sighting and although he couldn't fulfill his campaign pledge to reveal the truth about Exopolitical contact with the United States government, at least he made a try. (This is about the only good thing I can say about Carter. But, it is a good thing, and I mean it. And, oh, btw, he is a poet, and a very sincere and prolific one, but I wouldn't read his poetry, unless it were about the UFO/ET phenomenon. Unfortunately, when I leafed through his book in the used book store, there weren't any poems of this genre.) For instance, I remember the time some guys in Boulder presented Linda Moulton Howe's reports on the Cattle Mutilations (broadcast on KOA, Denver, entitled, "Strange Harvest.")I thought for sure that Ginsberg, being the egomaniacal self-promoter he was, would jump in and add to his collection, say, "The Fall of America." I believed that he'd soon be a big expert, with big rallies, like what he did to shut down Rocky Flats Nuclear Laboratories, blabbing about his own sightings to the reporters who were always doing a story on him. But, I was mistaken. The whole subject freaked him out. He remarked that it was just too strange. So, the students and reporters went away, disappointed. Here was the most out of the world, different, consensus-reality destroying issue, with flying saucers making fools of the United States Air Force, and the great Ginsberg was afraid! While, simultaneously, his nemesis, Ronald Reagan, was appearing at the United Nations and in the steps of General MacArthur was telling the world that the UFO issue could be a cause that would bring the nations together against a common foe. I guess Allen was just a Luddite, besides being a Sandinistan traitor, really wanted some kind of ant-hill CastroIstical slave state, and feared high technology, like nuclear reactors or interdimensional space and time ships. I am certain that Whitman, his hero, would have written a vast visionary tract on the Visitors or their ships had he encountered them. Gurdjieff. . . .did. One would think that with Burroughs' influence, this epic poet would at least write a confessional poem about how disturbing he found the whole topic, but, no, nothing. What a dud. Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:24:35 -0700 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! We don't do parades. We dance from string to string through the universe. - Jim (humanoid name) On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: I was going to stay in the closet, but since it's ET pride day, then fuck it. Where's the parade? From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 2:35:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Not too near Sirius, I'd guess Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 From: James Cervantes Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue planet in a system near Sirius. - Jbloknoo On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Jul 10 01:30:45 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:30:45 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM, stephen russell wrote: > no kidding. Pynchon would probably over complicate the genre, but I'm > interested. Libra, by Don Dellio, has a noir feel. Super creepy, beautiful > prose. _Libra_ was a good one, though I tend to like the DeLillo no one else seems to! You might like _Inherent Vice_... Pynchon can spin some beautiful sentences, but in the end it is surprisingly uncomplicated. Well, relatively speaking. It *is* Pynchon after all, but I found it very enjoyable in a much lighter way than I had reason to expect. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jul 10 06:52:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 05:52:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <4E19845B.1070701@nut-n-but.net> Sorry to be against you when everyone else also is, Richard, but the ET theory is nuts. There's no real evidence for it and a lot against it. The anomalies that show up are all fairly easy to explain--and one must remember that one can find anomalies in any explanation of anything. The worst thing about the ET theory, though, is the absurdity of extraterrestrials traveling all the way here, crashing, then keeping themselves completely hidden for over sixty years from everyone but a few people others think have something wrong with them. What is keeping them from fully revealing themselves? How has our usually incompetent government kept the secret so well hidden from so many of us, and kept any significant evidence from getting in the conspiracy theorists' hands? I'm afraid that what things seem to be on the surface is almost always what things really are. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Sun Jul 10 06:10:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:10:45 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Message-ID: <12948211.1310292645872.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 08:27:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:27:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <12948211.1310292645872.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <12948211.1310292645872.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Logically, Italian: Antonio Urzi IS the next Billy Meier since he FAKES all his footage. Some of his footage, of objects flying past buildings filmed from street level, shows balloons flying about as if they are UFO's but balloons are sold on many streets in Italy. Balloons are a favourite for faking or creating what seems to be great or interesting footage, especially in Mexico. The other type of footage he takes is simply zooming in to a bright star or planet like venus or jupiter when they are bright in the afternoon sky. Unlike Meier, instead of models on strings, Urzi resorts to a much simpler technique where he films a metal button or a thin watch battery on a window pane. His window pane is a skylight and he stands back while zooming into the button which looks like a gleaming object in the sky. Classic UFO camera trickery. My 3 objects are a small watch battery and 2 small metal buttons filmed while looking through the window pane they are sitting on. There's even an Adamski-ish fly about later on showing the same technique used in the 60's: "camera flying", where you move the camera slightly and the object, being close to you, moves relative to the background giving the impression of a "strange" nipping flight. and the YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JiBm1_pzZg and the poor man here, does he really believe him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbtCOV5GqOs&list=SL&feature=sh_e_top see from 35.45 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Jul 10 09:39:44 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 08:39:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E19ABA0.2080307@louisiana.edu> I'll chime in for _Libra_, too--I thought it was Delillo's best. And by the way (though this is where the thread started, I think), I'd also want to recommend, as an interesting poet-critic, Heather McHugh. Her _Broken English_ has some very smart essays (including one on Emily Dickinson's use of the dash, another on fragments, and another on the indefinite article). Also, I'd say that Adrienne Rich's _What is Found There_ (and earlier, her pamphlet "Women and Honor: Some Notes on Lying," which is included in WiFT) situated gender politics in relation to writing in ways that have influenced lots of people who aren't poets, and lots of people who aren't women. For earlier generations I often go back to Paul Valery and to Auden, Stevens, and Frost. Jerry On 7/10/2011 12:30 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM, stephen russell > wrote: >> no kidding. Pynchon would probably over complicate the genre, but I'm >> interested. Libra, by Don Dellio, has a noir feel. Super creepy, beautiful >> prose. > _Libra_ was a good one, though I tend to like the DeLillo no one else seems to! > > You might like _Inherent Vice_... Pynchon can spin some beautiful > sentences, but in the end it is surprisingly uncomplicated. Well, > relatively speaking. It *is* Pynchon after all, but I found it very > enjoyable in a much lighter way than I had reason to expect. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Jul 10 15:30:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310326243.74098.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'll look for the Pynchon. I haunt all the second hand D.C. bookstores. Dellio's an excellent playwright. Johnson tried his hand at playwriting simply because it was easier than writing novels. The no-so-committed attitude shows. His plays are not nearly as rewarding as his short stories, novels, or poetry. In fact, his plays are simply not very good. Dellio's plays, on the other hand, perfectly compliment his fiction. Actually, they're funnier and more absurd than his fiction. I'll look for the Cooverl. I haven't read him in years. ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 1:30:45 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM, stephen russell wrote: > no kidding. Pynchon would probably over complicate the genre, but I'm > interested. Libra, by Don Dellio, has a noir feel. Super creepy, beautiful > prose. _Libra_ was a good one, though I tend to like the DeLillo no one else seems to! You might like _Inherent Vice_... Pynchon can spin some beautiful sentences, but in the end it is surprisingly uncomplicated. Well, relatively speaking. It *is* Pynchon after all, but I found it very enjoyable in a much lighter way than I had reason to expect. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jul 10 21:08:43 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:08:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE0D7E360B2479-B9C-1A7DD@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> It would get siriusly hot too near Sirius. -----Original Message----- From: Crisman Cooley To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Not too near Sirius, I'd guess Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 From: James Cervantes Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue planet in a system near Sirius. - Jbloknoo On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, and > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jul 10 21:03:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:03:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <4E18C94A.9050001@louisiana.edu> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E18C94A.9050001@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CE0D7D71976E36-B9C-1A738@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> Kevin Young's noir book, Black Maria... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4520872 -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 5:34 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics Has Robert Coover's new book, _Noir_, been mentioned yet? I haven't got through it yet, but it seems fun, and much dedicated to hard-boiled dicks and film noir. Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 21:23:13 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:23:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <8CE0D7E360B2479-B9C-1A7DD@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0D7E360B2479-B9C-1A7DD@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Come on, you guys. I'm being Sirius. - Jbloknoo On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 6:08 PM, wrote: > It would get siriusly hot too near Sirius. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Crisman Cooley > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 2:35 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! > > Not too near Sirius, I'd guess > > > >> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:51:25 -0700 >> From: James Cervantes >> >> Me too! No wonder we get along. Where are you from? I'm from the blue >> planet >> in a system near Sirius. >> >> - Jbloknoo >> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Halvard Johnson >> wrote: >> >> > Okay, you heard it first here. I'm out. I'm an ET, I always have been, >> and >> > I always will be. And I'm proud of it! >> > >> > >> > "Literature is news that stays news." >> > --Ezra Pound >> > >> > Hal >> > >> > Halvard Johnson >> > ================ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Jul 10 22:57:25 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 19:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: References: , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I don't know about aliens living among us, but I do think it's interesting to talk about the potential existence of other beings in the universe. ? Some likely fear embarking on such discussions bc of the risk of being marked a 'ufo looney' (hence, the jokes to prove otherwise), while others may not think considering life elsewhere worthwhile or interesting, esp when we've got enough unexplained phenomena here to grapple with. ?What I do find interesting is listening in on *how* folks talk about such potential when they do. ?For example, I find it utterly baffling that Stephen Hawking, in his considerations, fears that aliens will simply come here to loot us for our resources one day. ?Such a limited, very human perspective for a so-called genius to take. ?Imperialism the alien way, Stephen? As for the Roswell issue, I recently heard a woman interviewed on Tavis Smiley (in passing!) about a new book she wrote on Area 51. ?She claims that the US gov't is covering up what those aliens really were (some sort of genetically-mangled humans) bc if it came out, we would have quaked in the face of Stalin's power to send them here and cause a ruckus. ?Um, the earthly explanation sounds as far-fetched as the rest. But ultimately, I'm in the camp of the curious, at risk of being marked an illogical looney, in the face of such strangeness - a characteristic, I think, that informs my poetry, take it or leave it. ?Good thing the world is a very big place, with room and permission for loads of ideas and things. ?Just like our heads. ?Unless you limit yourself in the name of certainty or whatever gets you by. ?Until someone proves no life exists beyond our four walls, I'm willing to listen and chat, to a certain degree, and don't feel compelled to dissuade others who seek all manner of evidence -- and question our government, in most any fashion. ? Amy ________________________________ From: R Dillon Shakespeare and Pound?and Borges were open to the Visitors and their ships.? But, I've noticed that?American poets of a certain ilk cannot really engage or admit the ET issue.??It can't be because most American poets are "Liberals" because James Earl Carter filed a report with the FBI regarding his sighting and although he couldn't fulfill his campaign pledge to reveal the truth about?Exopolitical contact with the United States government,?at least he made a try.??(This is about the only good thing I can say about Carter.? But, it is a good thing, and I mean it.? And, oh, btw, he is a poet, and a very sincere and prolific one, but I?wouldn't read his poetry, unless it?were about the?UFO/ET phenomenon.? Unfortunately, when I leafed through his book in the used book store,?there weren't any poems?of this genre.)? For instance, I remember the time some?guys in Boulder presented Linda Moulton Howe's?reports on the Cattle Mutilations (broadcast on KOA, Denver,?entitled, "Strange Harvest.") I?thought for sure that Ginsberg, being the?egomaniacal self-promoter he was, would jump in and?add to his collection, say, "The Fall of America."? I?believed that he'd soon be a big expert, with big rallies, like what he did to shut down Rocky Flats Nuclear Laboratories, blabbing about his own sightings to the reporters who were always doing a story on him.? But, I was mistaken.? The whole subject freaked him out.? He remarked that it was just too strange.? So, the students and reporters went away, disappointed.? Here was the most out of the world, different, consensus-reality destroying issue,? with flying saucers making fools of the United States Air Force, and the great Ginsberg was afraid!? While, simultaneously, his nemesis, Ronald Reagan, was appearing at the United Nations and in the steps of?General MacArthur was telling the world that the UFO issue could be a cause that would bring the nations together against a common foe.? I guess?Allen was just a Luddite, besides being a Sandinistan traitor, really wanted some kind of ant-hill?CastroIstical slave state,?and feared high technology, like nuclear?reactors or?interdimensional space and time ships.? I am certain that Whitman, his hero, would have written a vast visionary tract on the Visitors or their ships had he encountered them.? Gurdjieff. . . .did.? One would think that with Burroughs' influence, this?epic poet would at least write a confessional poem about how disturbing he found the whole topic, but, no, nothing.? What a dud. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Jul 11 01:36:39 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 05:36:39 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: , , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ridicule, as a strategy, is used to prevent individuals from briefing others, family, friends, etcetera, or media figures, or teachers, about their personal experiences of this matter. Tonight is the 150th birthday of Nicola Tesla, who designed Niagra Falls for George Westinghouse. In 1898, a little machine that vibrated in tune with vibration of his steel building, small in his pocket, almost caused the building on Houston Street to come crashing down. Do not let Luddite poets restrict your imagination. Tesla investigated the magnetic technology that makes flying saucers go. Upon his death, the FBI brought in trucks and absconded with his laboratory. Many who mock the UFO/ET issue deny what they themselves saw one peculiar afternoon. Or, night. Around the clock, around the world, continuously, people are encountering the Saucers. Lots of video footage on the Net. The fraudsters can't keep up with the phenomenon. Find out HOW Billy Meier actually doctored his amazing photographs, if you can. He would have needed a Hollywood special affects studio way back in the mid 1970s to create such pictures. Make up your own mind. Check out Steve Bassett's posting I provided. I know Steve. He's never seen a saucer, or been abducted, but he's absolutely convinced, and, BTW, is the ONLY registered lobbyist in D.C. for this issue, and holds international conferences at the National Press Club yearly. Check out the tragic story of Dr. Mack at Harvard. Talk about ridicule. Academe will go to great and unjust lengths to discredit the researchers, let alone the research. Opinions as to whether or not there are Visitors are quickly shown to be worthless, in the Castanedian sense, in the wind of the unknown. Similar to what Hamlet told Horatio by way of Shakespeare. Regardless, it has been my experience that poets, for some reason, fear the UFO/ET question. For instance, when I asked Carolyn Forche whether she had seen a flying saucer, she admitted, twirling a curl of her hair as she spoke, that she and her mother had, indeed, seen one. But, I ask, has Carolyn Forche gotten out front on this all important issue? No, she's more interested in blaming the United States for the problem of lopped ears in El Salvador (Sure.), while ignoring the case of honor killing in Michigan. Governor Reagan ordered California One, Boeing 707, to vector on a flying saucer. (Incoming! Ridicule!)Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 19:57:25 -0700 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! I don't know about aliens living among us, but I do think it's interesting to talk about the potential existence of other beings in the universe. Some likely fear embarking on such discussions bc of the risk of being marked a 'ufo looney' (hence, the jokes to prove otherwise), while others may not think considering life elsewhere worthwhile or interesting, esp when we've got enough unexplained phenomena here to grapple with. What I do find interesting is listening in on *how* folks talk about such potential when they do. For example, I find it utterly baffling that Stephen Hawking, in his considerations, fears that aliens will simply come here to loot us for our resources one day. Such a limited, very human perspective for a so-called genius to take. Imperialism the alien way, Stephen? As for the Roswell issue, I recently heard a woman interviewed on Tavis Smiley (in passing!) about a new book she wrote on Area 51. She claims that the US gov't is covering up what those aliens really were (some sort of genetically-mangled humans) bc if it came out, we would have quaked in the face of Stalin's power to send them here and cause a ruckus. Um, the earthly explanation sounds as far-fetched as the rest. But ultimately, I'm in the camp of the curious, at risk of being marked an illogical looney, in the face of such strangeness - a characteristic, I think, that informs my poetry, take it or leave it. Good thing the world is a very big place, with room and permission for loads of ideas and things. Just like our heads. Unless you limit yourself in the name of certainty or whatever gets you by. Until someone proves no life exists beyond our four walls, I'm willing to listen and chat, to a certain degree, and don't feel compelled to dissuade others who seek all manner of evidence -- and question our government, in most any fashion. Amy From: R Dillon Shakespeare and Pound and Borges were open to the Visitors and their ships. But, I've noticed that American poets of a certain ilk cannot really engage or admit the ET issue. It can't be because most American poets are "Liberals" because James Earl Carter filed a report with the FBI regarding his sighting and although he couldn't fulfill his campaign pledge to reveal the truth about Exopolitical contact with the United States government, at least he made a try. (This is about the only good thing I can say about Carter. But, it is a good thing, and I mean it. And, oh, btw, he is a poet, and a very sincere and prolific one, but I wouldn't read his poetry, unless it were about the UFO/ET phenomenon. Unfortunately, when I leafed through his book in the used book store, there weren't any poems of this genre.) For instance, I remember the time some guys in Boulder presented Linda Moulton Howe's reports on the Cattle Mutilations (broadcast on KOA, Denver, entitled, "Strange Harvest.") I thought for sure that Ginsberg, being the egomaniacal self-promoter he was, would jump in and add to his collection, say, "The Fall of America." I believed that he'd soon be a big expert, with big rallies, like what he did to shut down Rocky Flats Nuclear Laboratories, blabbing about his own sightings to the reporters who were always doing a story on him. But, I was mistaken. The whole subject freaked him out. He remarked that it was just too strange. So, the students and reporters went away, disappointed. Here was the most out of the world, different, consensus-reality destroying issue, with flying saucers making fools of the United States Air Force, and the great Ginsberg was afraid! While, simultaneously, his nemesis, Ronald Reagan, was appearing at the United Nations and in the steps of General MacArthur was telling the world that the UFO issue could be a cause that would bring the nations together against a common foe. I guess Allen was just a Luddite, besides being a Sandinistan traitor, really wanted some kind of ant-hill CastroIstical slave state, and feared high technology, like nuclear reactors or interdimensional space and time ships. I am certain that Whitman, his hero, would have written a vast visionary tract on the Visitors or their ships had he encountered them. Gurdjieff. . . .did. One would think that with Burroughs' influence, this epic poet would at least write a confessional poem about how disturbing he found the whole topic, but, no, nothing. What a dud. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jul 11 05:51:38 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:51:38 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Message-ID: <13282394.1310377899092.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 09:18:55 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics In-Reply-To: <8CE0D7D71976E36-B9C-1A738@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> References: <16454448.1310044996803.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E15E419.8010900@nut-n-but.net> <1310066211.56465.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE0B8DAA26E8E0-D14-3F98@webmail-d152.sysops.aol.com> <1310153418.90254.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310154117.24912.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310242762.30111.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E18C94A.9050001@louisiana.edu> <8CE0D7D71976E36-B9C-1A738@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1310390335.93248.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I had that one. Poetry noir. & it worked ... as poetry .... & noir. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 9:03:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics Kevin Young's noir book, Black Maria... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4520872 -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 5:34 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] rating the poet-critics Has Robert Coover's new book, _Noir_, been mentioned yet? I haven't got through it yet, but it seems fun, and much dedicated to hard-boiled dicks and film noir. Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 10:05:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310393159.89823.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm suprised to hear about Hawkings limited vision. Working at his mathmatical level requires genius, but not necessarily wisdom. Read Michio (and I'll?get back with correct spelling) Kuchio ... in spite of my mangled spelling, he's the American/Asian physicist/ writer of pop science books, perhaps the best in the field since the late Carl Sagan. His take is entirely different than Hawkings. He defines different types of civilizations, and we humans have not made it to the type 1 catagory because we're quickly exhausting our resourses and may very well not survive as a species. The more advanced civilizations are able to literary plug in to the vast resources of the universe. If we were more advance, we'd be able to fully exploit (yes, ugly word) the resources of our sun, making us a type 1, I think, civilization. In any event, the science guys don't shy away from Sci-Fi. And it's getting damn difficult to distinguish fiction from fact. Again, I'll get back with correct spelling. The physcisit I'm thinking of has done pioneer work in String Theory, and he's written popular science books. He's a populist in the best sense of the work, and sometimes appears on the ART BELL Show ... a deliriously fun radio program that features cranks/prophets/and legit working scientist. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 10:57:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! I don't know about aliens living among us, but I do think it's interesting to talk about the potential existence of other beings in the universe. ? Some likely fear embarking on such discussions bc of the risk of being marked a 'ufo looney' (hence, the jokes to prove otherwise), while others may not think considering life elsewhere worthwhile or interesting, esp when we've got enough unexplained phenomena here to grapple with. ?What I do find interesting is listening in on *how* folks talk about such potential when they do. ?For example, I find it utterly baffling that Stephen Hawking, in his considerations, fears that aliens will simply come here to loot us for our resources one day. ?Such a limited, very human perspective for a so-called genius to take. ?Imperialism the alien way, Stephen? As for the Roswell issue, I recently heard a woman interviewed on Tavis Smiley (in passing!) about a new book she wrote on Area 51. ?She claims that the US gov't is covering up what those aliens really were (some sort of genetically-mangled humans) bc if it came out, we would have quaked in the face of Stalin's power to send them here and cause a ruckus. ?Um, the earthly explanation sounds as far-fetched as the rest. But ultimately, I'm in the camp of the curious, at risk of being marked an illogical looney, in the face of such strangeness - a characteristic, I think, that informs my poetry, take it or leave it. ?Good thing the world is a very big place, with room and permission for loads of ideas and things. ?Just like our heads. ?Unless you limit yourself in the name of certainty or whatever gets you by. ?Until someone proves no life exists beyond our four walls, I'm willing to listen and chat, to a certain degree, and don't feel compelled to dissuade others who seek all manner of evidence -- and question our government, in most any fashion. ? Amy ________________________________ From: R Dillon Shakespeare and Pound?and Borges were open to the Visitors and their ships.? But, I've noticed that?American poets of a certain ilk cannot really engage or admit the ET issue.??It can't be because most American poets are "Liberals" because James Earl Carter filed a report with the FBI regarding his sighting and although he couldn't fulfill his campaign pledge to reveal the truth about?Exopolitical contact with the United States government,?at least he made a try.??(This is about the only good thing I can say about Carter.? But, it is a good thing, and I mean it.? And, oh, btw, he is a poet, and a very sincere and prolific one, but I?wouldn't read his poetry, unless it?were about the?UFO/ET phenomenon.? Unfortunately, when I leafed through his book in the used book store,?there weren't any poems?of this genre.)? For instance, I remember the time some?guys in Boulder presented Linda Moulton Howe's?reports on the Cattle Mutilations (broadcast on KOA, Denver,?entitled, "Strange Harvest.") I?thought for sure that Ginsberg, being the?egomaniacal self-promoter he was, would jump in and?add to his collection, say, "The Fall of America."? I?believed that he'd soon be a big expert, with big rallies, like what he did to shut down Rocky Flats Nuclear Laboratories, blabbing about his own sightings to the reporters who were always doing a story on him.? But, I was mistaken.? The whole subject freaked him out.? He remarked that it was just too strange.? So, the students and reporters went away, disappointed.? Here was the most out of the world, different, consensus-reality destroying issue,? with flying saucers making fools of the United States Air Force, and the great Ginsberg was afraid!? While, simultaneously, his nemesis, Ronald Reagan, was appearing at the United Nations and in the steps of?General MacArthur was telling the world that the UFO issue could be a cause that would bring the nations together against a common foe.? I guess?Allen was just a Luddite, besides being a Sandinistan traitor, really wanted some kind of ant-hill?CastroIstical slave state,?and feared high technology, like nuclear?reactors or?interdimensional space and time ships.? I am certain that Whitman, his hero, would have written a vast visionary tract on the Visitors or their ships had he encountered them.? Gurdjieff. . . .did.? One would think that with Burroughs' influence, this?epic poet would at least write a confessional poem about how disturbing he found the whole topic, but, no, nothing.? What a dud. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 10:09:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310393159.89823.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: , <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1310393159.89823.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310393365.1941.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Got it: It's Michio Kaku ... pioneer string theory guy. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 10:05:59 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! I'm suprised to hear about Hawkings limited vision. Working at his mathmatical level requires genius, but not necessarily wisdom. Read Michio (and I'll?get back with correct spelling) Kuchio ... in spite of my mangled spelling, he's the American/Asian physicist/ writer of pop science books, perhaps the best in the field since the late Carl Sagan. His take is entirely different than Hawkings. He defines different types of civilizations, and we humans have not made it to the type 1 catagory because we're quickly exhausting our resourses and may very well not survive as a species. The more advanced civilizations are able to literary plug in to the vast resources of the universe. If we were more advance, we'd be able to fully exploit (yes, ugly word) the resources of our sun, making us a type 1, I think, civilization. In any event, the science guys don't shy away from Sci-Fi. And it's getting damn difficult to distinguish fiction from fact. Again, I'll get back with correct spelling. The physcisit I'm thinking of has done pioneer work in String Theory, and he's written popular science books. He's a populist in the best sense of the work, and sometimes appears on the ART BELL Show ... a deliriously fun radio program that features cranks/prophets/and legit working scientist. ________________________________ From: amy king To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 10:57:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! I don't know about aliens living among us, but I do think it's interesting to talk about the potential existence of other beings in the universe. ? Some likely fear embarking on such discussions bc of the risk of being marked a 'ufo looney' (hence, the jokes to prove otherwise), while others may not think considering life elsewhere worthwhile or interesting, esp when we've got enough unexplained phenomena here to grapple with. ?What I do find interesting is listening in on *how* folks talk about such potential when they do. ?For example, I find it utterly baffling that Stephen Hawking, in his considerations, fears that aliens will simply come here to loot us for our resources one day. ?Such a limited, very human perspective for a so-called genius to take. ?Imperialism the alien way, Stephen? As for the Roswell issue, I recently heard a woman interviewed on Tavis Smiley (in passing!) about a new book she wrote on Area 51. ?She claims that the US gov't is covering up what those aliens really were (some sort of genetically-mangled humans) bc if it came out, we would have quaked in the face of Stalin's power to send them here and cause a ruckus. ?Um, the earthly explanation sounds as far-fetched as the rest. But ultimately, I'm in the camp of the curious, at risk of being marked an illogical looney, in the face of such strangeness - a characteristic, I think, that informs my poetry, take it or leave it. ?Good thing the world is a very big place, with room and permission for loads of ideas and things. ?Just like our heads. ?Unless you limit yourself in the name of certainty or whatever gets you by. ?Until someone proves no life exists beyond our four walls, I'm willing to listen and chat, to a certain degree, and don't feel compelled to dissuade others who seek all manner of evidence -- and question our government, in most any fashion. ? Amy ________________________________ From: R Dillon Shakespeare and Pound?and Borges were open to the Visitors and their ships.? But, I've noticed that?American poets of a certain ilk cannot really engage or admit the ET issue.??It can't be because most American poets are "Liberals" because James Earl Carter filed a report with the FBI regarding his sighting and although he couldn't fulfill his campaign pledge to reveal the truth about?Exopolitical contact with the United States government,?at least he made a try.??(This is about the only good thing I can say about Carter.? But, it is a good thing, and I mean it.? And, oh, btw, he is a poet, and a very sincere and prolific one, but I?wouldn't read his poetry, unless it?were about the?UFO/ET phenomenon.? Unfortunately, when I leafed through his book in the used book store,?there weren't any poems?of this genre.)? For instance, I remember the time some?guys in Boulder presented Linda Moulton Howe's?reports on the Cattle Mutilations (broadcast on KOA, Denver,?entitled, "Strange Harvest.") I?thought for sure that Ginsberg, being the?egomaniacal self-promoter he was, would jump in and?add to his collection, say, "The Fall of America."? I?believed that he'd soon be a big expert, with big rallies, like what he did to shut down Rocky Flats Nuclear Laboratories, blabbing about his own sightings to the reporters who were always doing a story on him.? But, I was mistaken.? The whole subject freaked him out.? He remarked that it was just too strange.? So, the students and reporters went away, disappointed.? Here was the most out of the world, different, consensus-reality destroying issue,? with flying saucers making fools of the United States Air Force, and the great Ginsberg was afraid!? While, simultaneously, his nemesis, Ronald Reagan, was appearing at the United Nations and in the steps of?General MacArthur was telling the world that the UFO issue could be a cause that would bring the nations together against a common foe.? I guess?Allen was just a Luddite, besides being a Sandinistan traitor, really wanted some kind of ant-hill?CastroIstical slave state,?and feared high technology, like nuclear?reactors or?interdimensional space and time ships.? I am certain that Whitman, his hero, would have written a vast visionary tract on the Visitors or their ships had he encountered them.? Gurdjieff. . . .did.? One would think that with Burroughs' influence, this?epic poet would at least write a confessional poem about how disturbing he found the whole topic, but, no, nothing.? What a dud. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:02:56 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 13:02:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Catherine, We always love when a question can be answered with, "Ask and you shall receive!" SPD is in fact now able to offer digital formats of books. and you will see our very first e-titles available very soon (the actual files are being created right now). Because of the way that e-readers (like Kindle and iPads, for example) work, you will actually download most digital SPD titles directly through your particular device, but the books will indeed be from SPD. As for used books, unfortunately we simply don't have a warehouse with the space to house used books. It's also an issue (and something worthy of discussion by all who buy used books) that used book sales generate no profit for either publishers or authors (that only happens when a book is initially sold). So, while as readers ourselves we certainly love used books and would certainly prefer buying them through an entity like SPD, it wouldn't make sense for our business model (practical matters of space aside). For now, we hope that the digital books we will soon be providing will be welcome by SPD readers and that this might become a terrific way for many of the titles we make available to be available long beyond their traditional print runs. As you probably know, for now, ebook formats are not particularly friendly to poetry or other types of writing where things like line breaks are integral to a text, but there are a number of solutions on the near horizon. We look forward to being able to offer a considerable number of SPD titles in digital formats in the very near future. As for print books, as long as readers keep buying them, publishers can keep producing them. Digital or print, long live the book! All best, The folks at SPD -- Laura Moriarty Deputy Director Small Press Distribution (510) 524-1668 From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 11 16:24:49 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:24:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> [Given that this is science fiction week on NewPoetry...] We'd be all set if only they could develop and clone the 'perfect poetry reader'; an entity loaded with a VISA number in its memory chip and possessed of insatiable bandwidth, greedily downloading books full of broken lines. SPD is practically on the doorstep of the Silicon Valley, so it might not be long before such an the entity is in beta test. -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; pussipo ; Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating poetry and poetics ; Poetics List (UPenn, UB) Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:02 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) Dear Catherine, We always love when a question can be answered with, "Ask and you shall receive!" SPD is in fact now able to offer digital formats of books. and you will see our very first e-titles available very soon (the actual files are being created right now). Because of the way that e-readers (like Kindle and iPads, for example) work, you will actually download most digital SPD titles directly through your particular device, but the books will indeed be from SPD. As for used books, unfortunately we simply don't have a warehouse with the space to house used books. It's also an issue (and something worthy of discussion by all who buy used books) that used book sales generate no profit for either publishers or authors (that only happens when a book is initially sold). So, while as readers ourselves we certainly love used books and would certainly prefer buying them through an entity like SPD, it wouldn't make sense for our business model (practical matters of space aside). For now, we hope that the digital books we will soon be providing will be welcome by SPD readers and that this might become a terrific way for many of the titles we make available to be available long beyond their traditional print runs. As you probably know, for now, ebook formats are not particularly friendly to poetry or other types of writing where things like line breaks are integral to a text, but there are a number of solutions on the near horizon. We look forward to being able to offer a considerable number of SPD titles in digital formats in the very near future. As for print books, as long as readers keep buying them, publishers can keep producing them. Digital or print, long live the book! All best, The folks at SPD -- Laura Moriarty Deputy Director Small Press Distribution (510) 524-1668 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:39:39 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:39:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plainer Message-ID: http://brtom.typepad.com/one/ Br. Tom Murphy writing and reading. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:42:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:42:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) In-Reply-To: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You've got the reader _ card has just expired / a card without insatiable bandwidth as James said, things have still to be perfected_____ On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:24 PM, wrote: > [Given that this is science fiction week on NewPoetry...] > > We'd be all set if only they could develop and clone the 'perfect poetry > reader'; an entity loaded with a VISA number in its memory chip and > possessed of insatiable bandwidth, greedily downloading books full of broken > lines. SPD is practically on the doorstep of the Silicon Valley, so it might > not be long before such an the entity is in beta test. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>; pussipo ; Poetryetc > provides a venue for a dialogue relating poetry and poetics < > POETRYETC at JISCMAIL.AC.UK>; Poetics List (UPenn, UB) < > POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu> > Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:02 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) > > Dear Catherine, > We always love when a question can be answered with, "Ask and you > shall receive!" SPD is in fact now able to offer digital formats of > books. and you will see our very first e-titles available very soon > (the actual files are being created right now). Because of the way > that e-readers (like Kindle and iPads, for example) work, you will > actually download most digital SPD titles directly through your > particular device, but the books will indeed be from SPD. As for used > books, unfortunately we simply don't have a warehouse with the space > to house used books. It's also an issue (and something worthy of > discussion by all who buy used books) that used book sales generate no > profit for either publishers or authors (that only happens when a book > is initially sold). So, while as readers ourselves we certainly love > used books and would certainly prefer buying them through an entity > like SPD, it wouldn't make sense for our business model (practical > matters of space aside). For now, we hope that the digital books we > will soon be providing will be welcome by SPD readers and that this > might become a terrific way for many of the titles we make available > to be available long beyond their traditional print runs. As you > probably know, for now, ebook formats are not particularly friendly to > poetry or other types of writing where things like line breaks are > integral to a text, but there are a number of solutions on the near > horizon. We look forward to being able to offer a considerable number > of SPD titles in digital formats in the very near future. As for print > books, as long as readers keep buying them, publishers can keep > producing them. Digital or print, long live the book! > All best, > The folks at SPD > > -- > Laura Moriarty > Deputy Director > Small Press Distribution(510) 524-1668 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 17:02:33 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 23:02:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, Message-ID: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html some time ago. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spearlstein at comcast.net Mon Jul 11 18:56:28 2011 From: spearlstein at comcast.net (spearlstein at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:56:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD); re: a comment on a comment on.... In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <368D6C24-7870-40EC-90B7-3CE18D9926A4@comcast.net> The crooks have me in a pod of apple - seeds; where hay seeds translate urban Runes of ruins- Oh for to have (streaming) Infinity 2011 bandwidth.... - I am often a lurker on this list- but this time I couldn't help but post!..:) (emoticon always sounded like a great name for a book to me). I am interested in ewriting and what it might mean for newer transmutations of vispo. Thanks! Sarah Pearlstein Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Anny p wrote: > You've got the reader _ card has just expired / a card without insatiable bandwidth > as James said, things have still to be perfected_____ > > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:24 PM, wrote: > [Given that this is science fiction week on NewPoetry...] > > We'd be all set if only they could develop and clone the 'perfect poetry reader'; an entity loaded with a VISA number in its memory chip and possessed of insatiable bandwidth, greedily downloading books full of broken lines. SPD is practically on the doorstep of the Silicon Valley, so it might not be long before such an the entity is in beta test. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Daly > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views ; pussipo ; Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating poetry and poetics ; Poetics List (UPenn, UB) > Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:02 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD) > > Dear Catherine, > We always love when a question can be answered with, "Ask and you > shall receive!" SPD is in fact now able to offer digital formats of > books. and you will see our very first e-titles available very soon > (the actual files are being created right now). Because of the way > that e-readers (like Kindle and iPads, for example) work, you will > actually download most digital SPD titles directly through your > particular device, but the books will indeed be from SPD. As for used > books, unfortunately we simply don't have a warehouse with the space > to house used books. It's also an issue (and something worthy of > discussion by all who buy used books) that used book sales generate no > profit for either publishers or authors (that only happens when a book > is initially sold). So, while as readers ourselves we certainly love > used books and would certainly prefer buying them through an entity > like SPD, it wouldn't make sense for our business model (practical > matters of space aside). For now, we hope that the digital books we > will soon be providing will be welcome by SPD readers and that this > might become a terrific way for many of the titles we make available > to be available long beyond their traditional print runs. As you > probably know, for now, ebook formats are not particularly friendly to > poetry or other types of writing where things like line breaks are > integral to a text, but there are a number of solutions on the near > horizon. We look forward to being able to offer a considerable number > of SPD titles in digital formats in the very near future. As for print > books, as long as readers keep buying them, publishers can keep > producing them. Digital or print, long live the book! > All best, > The folks at SPD > > -- > Laura Moriarty > Deputy Director > Small Press Distribution > (510) 524-1668 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 11 20:42:11 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:42:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD); re: a comment on a comment on.... In-Reply-To: <368D6C24-7870-40EC-90B7-3CE18D9926A4@comcast.net> References: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046. sysops.aol.com> <368D6C24-7870-40EC-90B7-3CE18D9926A4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4E1B9863.8000800@nut-n-but.net> On 7/11/2011 5:56 PM, spearlstein at comcast.net wrote: > The crooks have me in a pod of apple - > seeds; where hay seeds translate urban > Runes of ruins- > Oh for to have (streaming) > Infinity 2011 bandwidth.... > - I am often a lurker on this list- but this time I couldn't help but > post!..:) (emoticon always sounded like a great name for a book to > me). I am interested in ewriting and what it might mean for newer > transmutations of vispo. > > Thanks! > Sarah Pearlstein Sarah, do you know of Spidertangle? That's where to go on the Internet for people interested in vispo. But stay here, too! Vispo can use all the support it can get here. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 11 21:18:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:18:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> Wow...a lost world. Lovely. Particularly liked seeing the street boys trying to get in the frame when they realized they were being filmed. I also note that drivers (carriage or automobile) haven't improved much. And none had the excuse of the distraction of cellphone/texting. I'm flying to SF on Friday and I ll try to find a few buildings still standing along Market dating to pre-1906. -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:02 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html some time ago. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eposamentier at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 21:29:27 2011 From: eposamentier at yahoo.com (Evelyn Posamentier) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1310434167.31368.YahooMailNeo@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> oh, anny, i know about?local history?and so very much more From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html some time ago. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eposamentier at yahoo.com Mon Jul 11 21:32:03 2011 From: eposamentier at yahoo.com (Evelyn Posamentier) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: <1310434167.31368.YahooMailNeo@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1310434167.31368.YahooMailNeo@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310434323.62537.YahooMailNeo@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i'm so very, very sorry to have posted this list -- the message, obviously, was intended for anny . . . ? (that's what happens when you're exhausted at work) ? ep From: Evelyn Posamentier To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, oh, anny, i know about?local history?and so very much more From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html some time ago. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 11 22:04:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:04:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE0E4F1E8DBA08-22EC-304FB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> http://history1900s.about.com/od/photographs/ig/San-Francisco-Earthquake/Fire-on-Market-Street.htm http://history1900s.about.com/od/photographs/ig/San-Francisco-Earthquake/Buildings-on-Fire.htm Cable car temporarily out of service... -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, Wow...a lost world. Lovely. Particularly liked seeing the street boys trying to get in the frame when they realized they were being filmed. I also note that drivers (carriage or automobile) haven't improved much. And none had the excuse of the distraction of cellphone/texting. I'm flying to SF on Friday and I ll try to find a few buildings still standing along Market dating to pre-1906. -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:02 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html some time ago. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 22:02:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 04:02:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Have a nice trip. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:18 AM, wrote: > Wow...a lost world. Lovely. Particularly liked seeing the street boys > trying to get in the frame when they realized they were being filmed. > > I also note that drivers (carriage or automobile) haven't improved much. > And none had the excuse of the distraction of cellphone/texting. > > I'm flying to SF on Friday and I ll try to find a few buildings still > standing along Market dating to pre-1906. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:02 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, > > http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html > > some time ago. > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spearlstein at comcast.net Tue Jul 12 00:37:44 2011 From: spearlstein at comcast.net (spearlstein at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:37:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Open Letter to Small Press Distribution (SPD); re: a comment on a comment on.... In-Reply-To: <4E1B9863.8000800@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0E1FB7A27A06-818-29F2E@webmail-m046. sysops.aol.com> <368D6C24-7870-40EC-90B7-3CE18D9926A4@comcast.net> <4E1B9863.8000800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2DD03FA0-8D26-4953-BA2E-5C6301A28BF6@comcast.net> Thanks, I will check it out! -sarah Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 8:42 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/11/2011 5:56 PM, spearlstein at comcast.net wrote: >> The crooks have me in a pod of apple - >> seeds; where hay seeds translate urban >> Runes of ruins- >> Oh for to have (streaming) >> Infinity 2011 bandwidth.... >> - I am often a lurker on this list- but this time I couldn't help but post!..:) (emoticon always sounded like a great name for a book to me). I am interested in ewriting and what it might mean for newer transmutations of vispo. >> >> Thanks! >> Sarah Pearlstein > > Sarah, do you know of Spidertangle? That's where to go on the Internet for people interested in vispo. But stay here, too! Vispo can use all the support it can get here. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 02:21:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 08:21:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, In-Reply-To: <8CE0E4F1E8DBA08-22EC-304FB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0E48CB43F4F6-320-35DC@webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com> <8CE0E4F1E8DBA08-22EC-304FB@Webmail-d122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Exceptional pictures. I always wonder about the lack of foresight that characterizes the human beings. It is undoubtedly disturbing. Like with the disaster in Japan, and all other disasters, nobody knew, people had planned God knows what for the following months, and then everything disappears. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:04 AM, wrote: > > http://history1900s.about.com/od/photographs/ig/San-Francisco-Earthquake/Fire-on-Market-Street.htm > > > http://history1900s.about.com/od/photographs/ig/San-Francisco-Earthquake/Buildings-on-Fire.htm > > Cable car temporarily out of service... > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 9:18 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, > > Wow...a lost world. Lovely. Particularly liked seeing the street boys > trying to get in the frame when they realized they were being filmed. > > I also note that drivers (carriage or automobile) haven't improved much. > And none had the excuse of the distraction of cellphone/texting. > > I'm flying to SF on Friday and I ll try to find a few buildings still > standing along Market dating to pre-1906. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:02 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] San Francisco, > > http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20075062-10391709.html > > some time ago. > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 03:02:12 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:02:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310393365.1941.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310242917.14177.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310353045.13810.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1310393159.89823.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310393365.1941.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Courageous Amy. Yes, it would be interesting. Since I actually 'saw' Santa Claus when I was a child, and being perplexed now, I am very cautious in publicly stating that I would just so much like that someone a little more intelligent than us existed, and that logically loved us so much to teach us to fly and to solve all our problems, death included. That is why I prefer to denounce those who, like Urzi, think they can do of everybody whatever they want. I don't know if this makes sense with what you wrote, it is anyhow my wish to support hope, Best wishes, Anny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Jul 12 05:52:08 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:52:08 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! Message-ID: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 08:27:08 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:27:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: oK, I got it back. *Valis*, Chapter 5, Philip K. Dick. I have the Library of America edition with the 3 tomes, third volume, page 233: The astonished human being would say, I saw God; whereas in fact he saw only a highly evolved ultra-terrestrial life form, a UTI, or an extra-terrestrial life form (an ETI) which had come here at some time in the past? and perhaps, as Fat conjectured, had slumbered for nearly two thousand years in dormant seed form as living information in the codices at Nag Hammadi, which explained why reports of its existence had broken off abruptly around 70 A.D. Entry #33 in Fat?s journal (i.e. his exegesis): *This loneliness, this anguish of the bereaved Mind, is felt by every constituent of the universe. All its constituents are alive. Thus the ancient Greek thinkers were hylozoists.* * * A ?hylozoist? believes that the universe is alive; it?s about the same idea as pan-psychism, that everything is animated [or animism, as I like to define it. *AB*]. Pan-psychism or hylozoism falls into two belief-classes: 1) Each object is independently alive. 2) Everything is one unitary entity; the universe is one thing, alive, with one mind. Fat had found a kind of middle ground. The universe consists of one vast irrational entity *into which* has broken a high-order life form which camouflages itself by a sophisticated mimicry; thereby as long as it cares to it remains ? by us ? undetected. It mimics objects and causal processes (this is what Fat claims); not just object but what the objects do. From this, you can gather that Fat conceives of Zebra as very large. Not only do I think that the passage is of interest to our conversation, but I think I sort of side with Philip K. Dick in the moment in which he says he is Horselove Fat and when Fat tries to give sense and form to his ideas and intuitions. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 11:52 AM, wrote: > Hoping that someone or something will descend from the sky to save us > sounds like despair to me, Anny. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini ** > Sent: Jul 12, 2011 8:02 AM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! > > Courageous Amy. Yes, it would be interesting. Since I actually 'saw' Santa > Claus when I was a child, and being perplexed now, I am very cautious in > publicly stating that I would just so much like that someone a little more > intelligent than us existed, and that logically loved us so much to teach us > to fly and to solve all our problems, death included. > That is why I prefer to denounce those who, like Urzi, think they can do of > everybody whatever they want. > > I don't know if this makes sense with what you wrote, it is anyhow my wish > to support hope, > Best wishes, > > Anny > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jul 12 14:54:13 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1310496853.18393.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I don't read Anny's note as something as simplistic as her "hoping someone or something will descend from the sky" nor do I see why admitting hope for something beyond the limits of our own intelligence (Anny's exact words, "someone a little more intelligent than us") eliminates our ability to work to make things better in our human capacities. ?We must be 'despairing' to limn the edges of our own uncertainty???Do we still not seek and work to achieve? ? ? I'm not arguing for a belief in god as we've been told 'him,' esp as I am no fan of organized religions, but to cautiously hope for something beyond death, our brains, etc doesn't default to "despair" in my book. ? ? Thanks for your note, Anny - I think those who declare a 'god exists' sit in at least neighboring ballparks as those who declare 'nothing exists but us' -- both propositions require a specific understanding of "certainty" and "proof" (not to mention pomposity) that I have not achieved. ?Houdini set out to expose (as you point out Urzi, Anny) mediums who claimed to speak for the dead. ?What he did not eliminate, in the face of ferreting out fakes, was the *hope* that he could contact his wife from beyond the grave. ?Point is, the former activity did not require a renunciation of hope that there was something 'beyond' that he did not know yet -- nor was he embarrassed to publicly admit such hope. ? Amy ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net"? Hoping that someone or something will descend from the sky to save us sounds like despair to me, Anny. -----Original Message----- >From: Anny Ballardini > >Courageous Amy. Yes, it would be interesting. Since I actually 'saw' Santa Claus when I was a child, and being perplexed now, I am very cautious in publicly stating that I would just so much like that someone a little more intelligent than us existed, and that logically loved us so much to teach us to fly and to solve all our problems, death included. >That is why I prefer to denounce those who, like Urzi, think they can do of everybody whatever they want. > >I don't know if this makes sense with what you wrote, it is anyhow my wish to support hope, >Best wishes, > >Anny > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 17:14:06 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:14:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] World Disclosure Day. Today! In-Reply-To: <1310496853.18393.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1571069.1310464328763.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1310496853.18393.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Amy. I think that death and/or violent situations put you in a position of having to speculate philosophically. Sophia is the most possessive of lovers. You need to be on your own and - if you *do not want to collapse from the sky* [like a sack full of potatoes, they?d say in Italy] ? you have to proceed in an almost scientific way, methodically and upon confirmed facts. Philip Dick makes large use of the Book, like Hawthorne Abendsen, the author of *The Grasshopper lies heavy* in *The Man in the High Castle*, in this specific case the Book is The I Ching. But in Valis it could be the Bible, Parmenides, Heraclitus, Paul of Tarsus, Luke, the New Testament, .... He believes, as partly underlined in my previous quotation, that there is a wisdom, a Mind that is the sum of all Knowledge, and right in Valis, that there are theophanies by which you can enter in contact with the essence, or whatever other designation Dick gives to a state of enlightenment. In *A Maze of Death *Seth Morley (Dick's temporary alter-ego) asks the Intercessor to become a cactus and sleep and enjoy the sun for a thousand years. Logically Horselover Fat (Valis) is mad because of desperate situations we slowly get to know, weren't he mad - as his same alter-ego, the narrating I, states - he would have never looked for a theophany, and rejoiced just by remembering it to the point that it had become his entire belief system, i.e. his exegesis, as he defined it. So yes, probably, all creeds stem from desperation. Adam and Eve realized they were naked in the moment in which they were sent out of the Garden of Eden. By Dick, be it earth, Mars, a distant colony, we are out and sooner or later the appointment with the search for Truth to go beyond/stem above/make sense of/reach out from our daily routines and/or adventures, clicks. That easy, fundamentally. What is difficult ? and I am going back to my very first statement in this post, is the sophistic speculation that has to take place. Each one of us alone. There is no importing something premade at this point because that would be another tiny activity bound to be suffocated by the lack of meaning it would inevitably show to our own selves. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:54 PM, amy king wrote: > I don't read Anny's note as something as simplistic as her "hoping someone > or something will descend from the sky" nor do I see why admitting hope for > something beyond the limits of our own intelligence (Anny's exact words, > "someone a little more intelligent than us") eliminates our ability to work > to make things better in our human capacities. We must be 'despairing' to > limn the edges of our own uncertainty? Do we still not seek and work to > achieve? > > I'm not arguing for a belief in god as we've been told 'him,' esp as I am > no fan of organized religions, but to cautiously hope for something beyond > death, our brains, etc doesn't default to "despair" in my book. > > Thanks for your note, Anny - I think those who declare a 'god exists' sit > in at least neighboring ballparks as those who declare 'nothing exists but > us' -- both propositions require a specific understanding of "certainty" and > "proof" (not to mention pomposity) that I have not achieved. Houdini set > out to expose (as you point out Urzi, Anny) mediums who claimed to speak for > the dead. What he did not eliminate, in the face of ferreting out fakes, > was the *hope* that he could contact his wife from beyond the grave. Point > is, the former activity did not require a renunciation of hope that there > was something 'beyond' that he did not know yet -- nor was he embarrassed to > publicly admit such hope. > > Amy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > > Hoping that someone or something will descend from the sky to save us > sounds like despair to me, Anny. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > > Courageous Amy. Yes, it would be interesting. Since I actually 'saw' Santa > Claus when I was a child, and being perplexed now, I am very cautious in > publicly stating that I would just so much like that someone a little more > intelligent than us existed, and that logically loved us so much to teach us > to fly and to solve all our problems, death included. > That is why I prefer to denounce those who, like Urzi, think they can do of > everybody whatever they want. > > I don't know if this makes sense with what you wrote, it is anyhow my wish > to support hope, > Best wishes, > > Anny > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 13 13:11:16 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:11:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Message-ID: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 14:06:53 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early morning hours after his reading. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 15:51:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> damndamndamn?.... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should spell quantity correctly. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early morning hours after his reading. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 19:00:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a hired assassin. -- John D. MacDonald You would not recognize me. Mine is the face which blooms in The dank mirrors of washrooms As you grope for the light switch. My eyes have the expression Of the cold eyes of statues Watching their pigeons return >From the feed you have scattered, And I stand on my corner With the same marble patience. If I move at all, it is At the same pace precisely As the shade of the awning Under which I stand waiting And with whose blackness it seems I am already blended. I speak seldom, and always In a murmur as quiet As that of crowds which surround The victims of accidents. Shall I confess who I am? My name is all names, or none. I am the used-car salesman, The tourist from Syracuse, The hired assassin, waiting. I will stand here forever Like one who has missed his bus -- Familiar, anonymous -- On my usual corner, The corner at which you turn To approach that place where now You must not hope to arrive. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should spell quantity correctly. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early morning hours after his reading. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Jul 13 19:03:12 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE0FC82C9031E2-1978-212FB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Here's one of mine with a similar theme-- Somewhere Ahead a Man is Waiting He wants to see you But not to talk. He has other Things on his mind: maybe mystery, Maybe evil. There is a road And a broken phone and the shell Of an Enco gas station that closed 30 years ago. This man thinks He knows what is best. This man Imagines himself stronger than you Are, with your lost face and open map Of a mouth. He knows that the signs Are all there but twisted like dead Birds in a storm or a young American Girl who knots her pony tail and then Nibbles on the end. At the dusky Caf?, this man is standing by himself Having given up the right to ordinary Talk with others long ago. He knows What he wants now. He looks at his Shoes. There is a song called by Her name he used to know Before he was alone. The bird Of paradise only blooms when its roots Are crowded. He steps forward. millicent -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a hired assassin. -- John D. MacDonald You would not recognize me. Mine is the face which blooms in The dank mirrors of washrooms As you grope for the light switch. My eyes have the expression Of the cold eyes of statues Watching their pigeons return >From the feed you have scattered, And I stand on my corner With the same marble patience. If I move at all, it is At the same pace precisely As the shade of the awning Under which I stand waiting And with whose blackness it seems I am already blended. I speak seldom, and always In a murmur as quiet As that of crowds which surround The victims of accidents. Shall I confess who I am? My name is all names, or none. I am the used-car salesman, The tourist from Syracuse, The hired assassin, waiting. I will stand here forever Like one who has missed his bus -- Familiar, anonymous -- On my usual corner, The corner at which you turn To approach that place where now You must not hope to arrive. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should spell quantity correctly. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early morning hours after his reading. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 21:56:27 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:56:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got along with the best. - Jim On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy > noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. > > The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice > One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a > hired assassin. > -- John D. MacDonald > > You would not recognize me. > Mine is the face which blooms in > The dank mirrors of washrooms > As you grope for the light switch. > > My eyes have the expression > Of the cold eyes of statues > Watching their pigeons return > From the feed you have scattered, > > And I stand on my corner > With the same marble patience. > If I move at all, it is > At the same pace precisely > > As the shade of the awning > Under which I stand waiting > And with whose blackness it seems > I am already blended. > > I speak seldom, and always > In a murmur as quiet > As that of crowds which surround > The victims of accidents. > > Shall I confess who I am? > My name is all names, or none. > I am the used-car salesman, > The tourist from Syracuse, > > The hired assassin, waiting. > I will stand here forever > Like one who has missed his bus -- > Familiar, anonymous -- > > On my usual corner, > The corner at which you turn > To approach that place where now > You must not hope to arrive. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I > should spell quantity correctly. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not > for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a > formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is > pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a > line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted > home. > > I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the > early morning hours after his reading. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > > http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead > > Special to the Press-Citizen > Written by > Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under > Opinion > > "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of > his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 > collection, "Departures." > > That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning > poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the > publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation > of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." > > While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given > a single volume in which they could travel... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Thu Jul 14 10:16:44 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE1047CACA3B7A-2B84-6E53@webmail-d140.sysops.aol.com> I worked with Justice at Breadloaf in 1987, and he was incredibly kind to me and one of the most perceptive readers I've ever encountered. -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got along with the best. - Jim On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell wrote: This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a hired assassin. -- John D. MacDonald You would not recognize me. Mine is the face which blooms in The dank mirrors of washrooms As you grope for the light switch. My eyes have the expression Of the cold eyes of statues Watching their pigeons return >From the feed you have scattered, And I stand on my corner With the same marble patience. If I move at all, it is At the same pace precisely As the shade of the awning Under which I stand waiting And with whose blackness it seems I am already blended. I speak seldom, and always In a murmur as quiet As that of crowds which surround The victims of accidents. Shall I confess who I am? My name is all names, or none. I am the used-car salesman, The tourist from Syracuse, The hired assassin, waiting. I will stand here forever Like one who has missed his bus -- Familiar, anonymous -- On my usual corner, The corner at which you turn To approach that place where now You must not hope to arrive. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should spell quantity correctly. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early morning hours after his reading. From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead Special to the Press-Citizen Written by Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under Opinion "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 collection, "Departures." That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a single volume in which they could travel... _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 14 10:34:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:34:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Byron memorial book found at church sale Message-ID: <8CE104A381D0916-2348-134EC@webmail-d160.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14059723 Lost Byron memorial found in church sale returns to UK Mrs Solana has travelled to Edinburgh to donate the book to the library A book picked up at a church bring and buy sale in America has been identified as a lost memorial to Lord Byron. Marilyn Solana, who bought the book for $35 (?22) in Savannah, Georgia, in 2008, has now returned it to the UK. After online research, she contacted experts at the National Library of Scotland.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 14 14:55:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 11:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] all the words are hanging Message-ID: <1310669724.39578.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> By W.S. Merwin. The body of work he's produced is stunning. The Heart In the first chamber of the heart all the gloves are hanging but two the hands are bare as they come through the door the bell rope is moving without them they move forward cupped as though holding water there is a bird bathing in their palms in this chamber there is no color In the second chamber of the heart all the blindfolds are hanging but one the eyes are open as they come in they see the bell rope moving without hands they see the bathing bird being carried forward through the colored chamber In the third chamber of the heart all the sounds are hanging but one the ears hear nothing as they come through the door the bell rope is moving like a breath without hands a bird is being carried forward bathing in total silence In the last chamber of the heart all the words are hanging but one the blood is naked as it steps through the door with its eyes open and a bathing bird in its hands and with its bare feet on the sill moving as though on water to the one stroke of the bell someone is ringing without hands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 14 15:14:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310670865.36554.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Justice?was warm, open.?He read at Florida State and soon after began teaching at the University of Florida in Gainsville. I think Justice met my Florida State teacher/?professer and poet, Van K.?Brock, while they were both students at Iowa. An entire generation, it seems, ?of 1st rate writer/poets met at Iowa. Merwin, I think, ?is one of the few poets from that generation who didn't end up teaching. I think he made his living as a language tutor and translater. Merwin's gifts amaze me. ________________________________ From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. ?The noir feel is inherent. ?Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got along with the best. - Jim On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell wrote: This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. > > >The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >hired assassin. >-- John D. MacDonald > >You would not recognize me. >Mine is the face which blooms in >The dank mirrors of washrooms >As you grope for the light switch. > >My eyes have the expression >Of the cold eyes of statues >Watching their pigeons return >From the feed you have scattered, > >And I stand on my corner >With the same marble patience. >If I move at all, it is >At the same pace precisely > >As the shade of the awning >Under which I stand waiting >And with whose blackness it seems >I am already blended. > >I speak seldom, and always >In a murmur as quiet >As that of crowds which surround >The victims of accidents. > >Shall I confess who I am? >My name is all names, or none. >I am the used-car salesman, >The tourist from Syracuse, > >The hired assassin, waiting. >I will stand here forever >Like one who has missed his bus -- >Familiar, anonymous -- > >On my usual corner, >The corner at which you turn >To approach that place where now >You must not hope to arrive. > > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > >damndamndamn?.... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should >spell quantity correctly. > > > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > >Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for >Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. >He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was >also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John >McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. > > >I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early >morning hours after his reading. > > > > > ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > >http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead > > >Special to the Press-Citizen >Written by >Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >Opinion > >"Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his >poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 >collection, "Departures." > >That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet >and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of >his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's >worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." > >While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a >single volume in which they could travel... > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com// The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 14 15:24:14 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Donald Justice - Men At Forty Men at forty Learn to close softly The doors to rooms they will not be Coming back to. At rest on a stair landing, They feel it Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship, Though the swell is gentle. And deep in mirrors They rediscover The face of the boy as he practices tying His father's tie there in secret And the face of that father, Still warm with the mystery of lather. They are more fathers than sons themselves now. Something is filling them, something That is like the twilight sound Of the crickets, immense, Filling the woods at the foot of the slope Behind their mortgaged houses. ________________________________ From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. ?The noir feel is inherent. ?Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got along with the best. - Jim On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell wrote: This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. > > >The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >hired assassin. >-- John D. MacDonald > >You would not recognize me. >Mine is the face which blooms in >The dank mirrors of washrooms >As you grope for the light switch. > >My eyes have the expression >Of the cold eyes of statues >Watching their pigeons return >From the feed you have scattered, > >And I stand on my corner >With the same marble patience. >If I move at all, it is >At the same pace precisely > >As the shade of the awning >Under which I stand waiting >And with whose blackness it seems >I am already blended. > >I speak seldom, and always >In a murmur as quiet >As that of crowds which surround >The victims of accidents. > >Shall I confess who I am? >My name is all names, or none. >I am the used-car salesman, >The tourist from Syracuse, > >The hired assassin, waiting. >I will stand here forever >Like one who has missed his bus -- >Familiar, anonymous -- > >On my usual corner, >The corner at which you turn >To approach that place where now >You must not hope to arrive. > > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > >damndamndamn?.... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should >spell quantity correctly. > > > > > ________________________________ From: stephen russell >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > >Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for >Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. >He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was >also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John >McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. > > >I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early >morning hours after his reading. > > > > > ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > >http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead > > >Special to the Press-Citizen >Written by >Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >Opinion > >"Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his >poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 >collection, "Departures." > >That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet >and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of >his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's >worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." > >While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a >single volume in which they could travel... > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com// The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Jul 14 16:12:30 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] all the words are hanging In-Reply-To: <1310669724.39578.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310669724.39578.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE10797E335783-12C0-560F@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> This is one of my favorite Merwin poems-- -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] all the words are hanging By W.S. Merwin. The body of work he's produced is stunning. The Heart In the first chamber of the heart all the gloves are hanging but two the hands are bare as they come through the door the bell rope is moving without them they move forward cupped as though holding water there is a bird bathing in their palms in this chamber there is no color In the second chamber of the heart all the blindfolds are hanging but one the eyes are open as they come in they see the bell rope moving without hands they see the bathing bird being carried forward through the colored chamber In the third chamber of the heart all the sounds are hanging but one the ears hear nothing as they come through the door the bell rope is moving like a breath without hands a bird is being carried forward bathing in total silence In the last chamber of the heart all the words are hanging but one the blood is naked as it steps through the door with its eyes open and a bathing bird in its hands and with its bare feet on the sill moving as though on water to the one stroke of the bell someone is ringing without hands _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 16:33:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:33:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sentimental? Dontcha think? "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:24 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Donald Justice - Men At Forty > > Men at forty > Learn to close softly > The doors to rooms they will not be > Coming back to. > > At rest on a stair landing, > They feel it > Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship, > Though the swell is gentle. > > And deep in mirrors > They rediscover > The face of the boy as he practices tying > His father's tie there in secret > > And the face of that father, > Still warm with the mystery of lather. > They are more fathers than sons themselves now. > Something is filling them, something > > That is like the twilight sound > Of the crickets, immense, > Filling the woods at the foot of the slope > Behind their mortgaged houses. > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Cervantes > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is > inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got > along with the best. > > - Jim > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a >> creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. >> >> The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >> One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >> hired assassin. >> -- John D. MacDonald >> >> You would not recognize me. >> Mine is the face which blooms in >> The dank mirrors of washrooms >> As you grope for the light switch. >> >> My eyes have the expression >> Of the cold eyes of statues >> Watching their pigeons return >> From the feed you have scattered, >> >> And I stand on my corner >> With the same marble patience. >> If I move at all, it is >> At the same pace precisely >> >> As the shade of the awning >> Under which I stand waiting >> And with whose blackness it seems >> I am already blended. >> >> I speak seldom, and always >> In a murmur as quiet >> As that of crowds which surround >> The victims of accidents. >> >> Shall I confess who I am? >> My name is all names, or none. >> I am the used-car salesman, >> The tourist from Syracuse, >> >> The hired assassin, waiting. >> I will stand here forever >> Like one who has missed his bus -- >> Familiar, anonymous -- >> >> On my usual corner, >> The corner at which you turn >> To approach that place where now >> You must not hope to arrive. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* stephen russell >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I >> should spell quantity correctly. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* stephen russell >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not >> for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a >> formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is >> pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a >> line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted >> home. >> >> I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the >> early morning hours after his reading. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >> http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead >> >> Special to the Press-Citizen >> Written by >> Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >> Opinion >> >> "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle >> of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his >> 1973 collection, "Departures." >> >> That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning >> poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the >> publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation >> of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." >> >> While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given >> a single volume in which they could travel... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com// > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 04:10:47 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:10:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mango Owere Fada Message-ID: "And those mangoes were particularly sweet, sweeter than those we were allowed to harvest from our own compounds. Maybe the sweetness came from the fact that they were stolen, or from the fact that they came from Fada's backyard -- from "owere Fada" -- or both. Maybe if we had been allowed to harvest them freely, they wouldn't have been so tasty after all! Forbidden things are always very attractive." Read full text of "Mango Owere Fada" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5727013-146/story.csp You can also access the entire 100 essays of mine published by *NEXT* at: http://udude.wordpress.com/essays-in-e-zines-dailies/ AND http://udude.wordpress.com/essays-in-e-zines-and-dailies-2/ -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 10:30:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? Message-ID: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> According to Sarah Crown "apportioning blame is not easy." There's a best single poem catagory. That should be for all time. And every year the Illiad wins. * Culture * Books * Forward prize for poetry * Next * Previous * Blog home Forward poetry prize: who got rid of the women? The all-male shortlist for this year's prize is sadly true to form. But apportioning blame is not easy * * * Share242 * reddit this * Comments (83) Spot the similarity ... the Forward prize for poetry shortlist 2011. Photograph: Eamonn McCabe/Murdo Macleod/PR The 2011 Forward prize shortlist has been announced. It's an anniversary year: the prize is celebrating its 20th birthday. And this year's list oozes quality: former winners Sean O'Brien and David Harsent compete with Whitbread winner John Burnside, Oxford poetry professor Geoffrey Hill, Irish poetry colossus Michael Longley - and OK, D Nurske, a Brooklyn poet of whom I confess I'd never heard until now. But doubtless he's wonderful too. A mighty list then, and nothing to complain about ? except for the fact that there aren't any women on it. Does it matter? I'm not sure. It's certainly noteworthy, however, so I mailed the chair of judges, Andrew Motion, to ask him where the women were. "Of course it was a matter of concern for us that the shortlist for the Best Collection was all-male," he replied. "But equally of course the judges (three women and two men) had to choose the books they liked best as collections of poetry. It's worth pointing out, too, that the same criteria led us to choose four books by women and two by men in the Best First Collection section, and two poems by women and two by men in the Best Single Poem category." Fair enough, you might think, and there the matter might rest. I have uneasy feelings about the issue of gender on prize shortlists, anyway: while there are certain areas in which balance ought actively to be sought (the ratio of male to female reviewers, for example), I don't believe prize shortlists should be one of them. Some years there'll be more good books by women, some years by men; the judges should feel free to reflect this, and things will, one imagines, even out over time. Except, in the case of the Forward prize, they haven't. I've just been back to check, and out of the 19 winners of the Best Collection award since the Forwards launched in 1992, only three have been women ? Kathleen Jamie, Jo Shapcott and Carol Ann Duffy. Three out of 19 ? and we know, of course, that this year, that count is about to rise to three out of 20. I find this more interesting ? and indeed alarming ? than I might otherwise have done because I'm partially responsible. I sat on the judging panel for the Forwards in 2007 ? the year Sean O'Brien won for the third time. Looking back, I see that our shortlist that year only included one woman, Eavan Boland. What's more, I recall from the judging meeting that she didn't make it into the final two: in the end, it came down to a lengthy fight between O'Brien and John Burnside. So if I want to go around accusing the Forwards of sexism, conscious or otherwise, I need to stick myself in the dock too. And I don't want to level such an accusation, not really. I have no doubt that, every year, the Forward judges worked long and hard to give the prize to the collection that, in their estimation, was the very best in show. I know we did, and I fully stand by our choice. But that said, I find it difficult to accept that, over the past 20 years, male poets in the UK have outperformed female poets by a ratio of nearly 7:1. So what's going on? Why do we find, again and again, in poetry and literature more generally, that men continue to dominate when it comes to prizes? The first explanation, and to be frank the most straightforward, has to be that the men are simply better. Are they? How would we know? Unfortunately when we try to assess ability, things get sticky, because we lack an objective measure (prizes, indeed, might appear to be the closest we come to one). At this point, therefore, I've no choice but to fall back on my own subjective experience, which tells me this isn't the case. For every male poet or novelist I admire, there's a female I admire as deeply ? she just may not be getting the prizes. The second possibility is that prize juries are sexist. Again, I can't speak for all juries everywhere, at every time ? doubtless you get the odd bad apple. But I'm pretty sure our jury wasn't composed of raving misogynists ? and I'm very sure I myself don't deserve the label. Which leaves us with hopelessly messy explanation number three: the paradigmatic one. While every member of every prize jury in the land may be able to hold her or his hand up and say with conviction that his/her judgments are not sexist, as a society, we're not there yet. Women are still paid less than men for the same jobs, hold fewer senior positions, are fatally underrepresented in politics. The society in which we operate isn't gender neutral yet, and it seems that our prizes reflect this. We're still in the middle of a paradigm shift, from a patriarchal society to a gender-blind one. A century ago, if the shortlist for a poetry prize had been all-male, no one would have thought to bat an eyelid. Paradoxically, we'll know we've hit equality when the same is true again. Posted by Sarah Crown Thursday 14 July 2011 13.06 BST guardian.co.uk * Printable version * Send to a friend * Share * Clip * Contact us * larger | smaller Books * Forward prize for poetry ? * Poetry ? * Sean O'Brien ? * David Harsent ? * Oxford professor of poetry ? * Michael Longley ? * Andrew Motion ? * Jo Shapcott ? * Carol Ann Duffy Culture * Awards and prizes More from Books blog on Books * Forward prize for poetry ? * Poetry ? * Sean O'Brien ? * David Harsent ? * Oxford professor of poetry ? * Michael Longley ? * Andrew Motion ? * Jo Shapcott ? * Carol Ann Duffy Culture * Awards and prizes More blogposts * More on this story * Forward shortlist includes Geoffrey Hill, Sean O'Brien and David Harsent John Burnside, Michael Longley and D Nurkse also in the running on all-male shortlist for ?10,000 poetry prize See also * 26 Jun 2011 Die Meistersinger von N?rnberg at Glyndebourne stream * 4 Jul 2011 FAQs * 27 Jun 2011 David Millar: I'd be surprised if Bradley Wiggins made Tour top 10 * 15 Jul 2011 Best bits - open public services reform white paper * 14 Jul 2011 Forward shortlist includes Geoffrey Hill, Sean O'Brien and David Harsent * 6 Oct 2005 'Poetry? It's crucial' * 6 Oct 2005 Poetry of war wins ?10,000 award * 3 Oct 2007 O'Brien breaks poetry record * Next * Previous * Blog home -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 10:32:17 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310740337.79943.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> By hallmark standards, it's austere. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 14, 2011 4:33:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Sentimental? Dontcha think? "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:24 PM, stephen russell wrote: Donald Justice - Men At Forty >Men at forty Learn to close softly The doors to rooms they will not be Coming >back to. At rest on a stair landing, They feel it Moving beneath them now like >the deck of a ship, Though the swell is gentle. And deep in mirrors They >rediscover The face of the boy as he practices tying His father's tie there in >secret And the face of that father, Still warm with the mystery of lather. They >are more fathers than sons themselves now. Something is filling them, something >That is like the twilight sound Of the crickets, immense, Filling the woods at >the foot of the slope Behind their mortgaged houses. > > > > > ________________________________ From: James Cervantes >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > >The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is >inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got >along with the best. > > > >- Jim > > >On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell >wrote: > >This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir >feel. More sinister than MacDonald. > >> >> >>The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >>One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >>hired assassin. >>-- John D. MacDonald >> >>You would not recognize me. >>Mine is the face which blooms in >>The dank mirrors of washrooms >>As you grope for the light switch. >> >>My eyes have the expression >>Of the cold eyes of statues >>Watching their pigeons return >>From the feed you have scattered, >> >>And I stand on my corner >>With the same marble patience. >>If I move at all, it is >>At the same pace precisely >> >>As the shade of the awning >>Under which I stand waiting >>And with whose blackness it seems >>I am already blended. >> >>I speak seldom, and always >>In a murmur as quiet >>As that of crowds which surround >>The victims of accidents. >> >>Shall I confess who I am? >>My name is all names, or none. >>I am the used-car salesman, >>The tourist from Syracuse, >> >>The hired assassin, waiting. >>I will stand here forever >>Like one who has missed his bus -- >>Familiar, anonymous -- >> >>On my usual corner, >>The corner at which you turn >>To approach that place where now >>You must not hope to arrive. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: stephen russell >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >>damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should >>spell quantity correctly. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: stephen russell >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >>Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for >>Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. >>He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was >>also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John >>McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. >> >> >>I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early >>morning hours after his reading. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >>http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead >> >> >>Special to the Press-Citizen >>Written by >>Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >>Opinion >> >>"Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his >>poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 >>collection, "Departures." >> >>That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet >>and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of >>his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's >>worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." >> >>While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a >>single volume in which they could travel... >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com// >The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 10:52:06 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 43% Message-ID: <1310741526.24484.YahooMailRC@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Or, to quote Jeffrey McDaniel: The Biology of Numbers Once I dated a woman I only liked 43%. So I only listened to 43% of what she said. Only told the truth 43% of the time. And only kissed with 43% of my lips. Some say you can't quantify desire, attaching a number to passion isn't right, that the human heart doesn't work like that. But for me it does-I walk down the street and numbers appear on the foreheads of the people I look at. In bars, it's worse. With each drink, the numbers go up until every woman in the joint has a blurry eighty something above her eyebrows, and the next day I can only remember 17% of what actually happened. That's the problem with booze-it screws with your math. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 12:03:09 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:03:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> "A mighty list then, and nothing to complain about ? except for the fact that there aren't any women on it." Certainly nothing for someone who doesn't realize that Wilshberia isn't the only place poems are made. Yeah, I'm repeating myself. But so are the people making announcements about some conventional poet's winning a prize or becoming a finalist for a prize. I've decided, by the way, that although there are many poems by poets who reached their prime before 1960 that I would love to have composed, there are none by any prominent poet since then that the same is true of, though there /are/ a few I wouldn't mind having composed. There are dozens by unrecognized poets since 1960 that I'd love to have composed, though--none more than Aram Saroyan's "lighght." More by Scott Helmes, I think, than by anyone else. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 11:18:57 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Inaugural Message-ID: <1310743137.70385.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I wish they read good poems during ignagurals. Not Maya Angelo poems, may something more on the line of this -- by Terrence Hayes A. Machine Hey, I am learning what it means to ride condemned. I may be breaking up. I am doing 85 outside the kingdom Of heaven, under the overpass and passed over, The past is over and I?m over the past. My odometer Is broken, can you help me? When you get this mess- Age, I may be a half-ton crush, a half tone of mist And mystery, maybe trooper bait with the ambulance Ambling somewhere, or a dial of holy stations, a band- Age of clamor and spooling, a dash and semaphore, A pupil of motion on my way to be buried or planted or Crammed or creamed, treading light and water or tread and trepidation, maybe. Hey, I am backfiring along a road Through the future, I am alive skidding on the tongue, When you get this message, will you sigh, My lover is gone? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 13:59:12 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather sweet poem: All The Whiskey in Heaven Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 14, 2011 4:33:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Sentimental? Dontcha think? ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:24 PM, stephen russell wrote: Donald Justice - Men At Forty >Men at forty Learn to close softly The doors to rooms they will not be Coming >back to. At rest on a stair landing, They feel it Moving beneath them now like >the deck of a ship, Though the swell is gentle. And deep in mirrors They >rediscover The face of the boy as he practices tying His father's tie there in >secret And the face of that father, Still warm with the mystery of lather. They >are more fathers than sons themselves now. Something is filling them, something >That is like the twilight sound Of the crickets, immense, Filling the woods at >the foot of the slope Behind their mortgaged houses. > > > > > ________________________________ From: James Cervantes >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > >The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. ?The noir feel is >inherent. ?Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got >along with the best. > > > >- Jim > > >On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell >wrote: > >This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a creepy noir >feel. More sinister than MacDonald. > >> >> >>The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >>One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >>hired assassin. >>-- John D. MacDonald >> >>You would not recognize me. >>Mine is the face which blooms in >>The dank mirrors of washrooms >>As you grope for the light switch. >> >>My eyes have the expression >>Of the cold eyes of statues >>Watching their pigeons return >>From the feed you have scattered, >> >>And I stand on my corner >>With the same marble patience. >>If I move at all, it is >>At the same pace precisely >> >>As the shade of the awning >>Under which I stand waiting >>And with whose blackness it seems >>I am already blended. >> >>I speak seldom, and always >>In a murmur as quiet >>As that of crowds which surround >>The victims of accidents. >> >>Shall I confess who I am? >>My name is all names, or none. >>I am the used-car salesman, >>The tourist from Syracuse, >> >>The hired assassin, waiting. >>I will stand here forever >>Like one who has missed his bus -- >>Familiar, anonymous -- >> >>On my usual corner, >>The corner at which you turn >>To approach that place where now >>You must not hope to arrive. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: stephen russell >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >>damndamndamn?.... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I should >>spell quantity correctly. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: stephen russell >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >>Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not for >>Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a formalist. >>He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is pristine. He was >>also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a line by John >>McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted home. >> >> >>I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the early >>morning hours after his reading. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >>Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >>http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead >> >> >>Special to the Press-Citizen >>Written by >>Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >>Opinion >> >>"Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle of his >>poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his 1973 >>collection, "Departures." >> >>That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet >>and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the publication of >>his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation of a lifetime's >>worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." >> >>While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given a >>single volume in which they could travel... >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com// >The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 14:36:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310754964.29262.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm not familiar with Scott Helmes ... I should be ... thanks for the name ... Bob, would this be considered vispo, or is it merely an image that includes words? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NO women? "A mighty list then, and nothing to complain about ? except for the fact that there aren't any women on it." Certainly nothing for someone who doesn't realize that Wilshberia isn't the only place poems are made. Yeah, I'm repeating myself.? But so are the people making announcements about some conventional poet's winning a prize or becoming a finalist for a prize. I've decided, by the way, that although there are many poems by poets who reached their prime before 1960 that I would love to have composed, there are none by any prominent poet since then that the same is true of, though there are a few I wouldn't mind having composed.? There are dozens by unrecognized poets since 1960 that I'd love to have composed, though--none more than Aram Saroyan's "lighght."? More by Scott Helmes, I think, than by anyone else. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/pjpeg Size: 82040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 14:57:27 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: NO women? In-Reply-To: <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310756247.99143.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> yikes. that thing is hideous. this jpg may be more ....... more language 3.JPG ? maybe the jpg above. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 2:36:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NO women? I'm not familiar with Scott Helmes ... I should be ... thanks for the name ... Bob, would this be considered vispo, or is it merely an image that includes words? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 12:03:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NO women? "A mighty list then, and nothing to complain about ? except for the fact that there aren't any women on it." Certainly nothing for someone who doesn't realize that Wilshberia isn't the only place poems are made. Yeah, I'm repeating myself.? But so are the people making announcements about some conventional poet's winning a prize or becoming a finalist for a prize. I've decided, by the way, that although there are many poems by poets who reached their prime before 1960 that I would love to have composed, there are none by any prominent poet since then that the same is true of, though there are a few I wouldn't mind having composed.? There are dozens by unrecognized poets since 1960 that I'd love to have composed, though--none more than Aram Saroyan's "lighght."? More by Scott Helmes, I think, than by anyone else. --Bob s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/pjpeg Size: 82040 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 16:10:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:10:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 12:59 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather > sweet poem: You don't think maybe he was paordying anything? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 15:09:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310756983.48914.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Auden could get sendimental, and he was fond of?pop forms. I heard Bernstein read this at Bridge Street in D.C. His rendering was earnest. But yes, he may be doing both tongue and cheek, while at the same time aiming at something genuine, something that's not merely parody. But I've been duped before. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 4:10:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice On 7/15/2011 12:59 PM, stephen russell wrote: Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather sweet poem: You don't think maybe he was paordying anything? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 16:24:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:24:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <1310754964.29262.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> <1310754964.29262.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E20A1F4.6020001@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 1:36 PM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm not familiar with Scott Helmes ... I should be ... thanks for the > name ... Bob, would this be considered vispo, or is it merely an image > that includes words? > > > Interesting, Stephen. You'd get a lot of argument about how to classify it. Well, maybe not--just me on one side, and everybody else in the visual poetry scene. Actually, I lean toward calling it a visual poem--because the image seems to me to fuse effectively with the words. On the other hand, it could easily be called an illustrated poem--a poem with a graphic inspired by it--although it could be vice versa--poem inspired by graphic. I think I'd not commit myself as to what it is unless forced to--if, for instance, I were doing an visual poetry anthology and it were submitted to it. It's in what I call the "borblur" (after bp Nichol's "border blur") between visual poetry and illustrated poetry. Who made it? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/pjpeg Size: 82040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 15:21:18 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <4E20A1F4.6020001@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> <1310754964.29262.YahooMailRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E20A1F4.6020001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310757678.56917.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> it's mine. i've done tons of them using paintshop. i used to send them to david chirot for feedback. Chirot, btw, is outstanding on the visual front. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 4:24:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NO women? On 7/15/2011 1:36 PM, stephen russell wrote: I'm not familiar with Scott Helmes ... I should be ... thanks for the name ... Bob, would this be considered vispo, or is it merely an image that includes words? > > > > > > Interesting, Stephen.? You'd get a lot of argument about how to classify it.? Well, maybe not--just me on one side, and everybody else in the visual poetry scene.? Actually, I lean toward calling it a visual poem--because the image seems to me to fuse effectively with the words.? On the other hand, it could easily be called an illustrated poem--a poem with a graphic inspired by it--although it could be vice versa--poem inspired by graphic.? I think I'd? not commit myself as to what it is unless forced to--if, for instance, I were doing an visual poetry anthology and it were submitted to it.? It's in what I call the "borblur" (after bp Nichol's "border blur") between visual poetry and illustrated poetry. Who made it? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/pjpeg Size: 82040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 15:17:44 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:17:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Never heard of him, but I've no problem with his getting the award. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:59 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather > sweet poem: > > All The Whiskey in Heaven > > > > Not for all the whiskey in heaven > Not for all the flies in Vermont > Not for all the tears in the basement > Not for a million trips to Mars > > Not if you paid me in diamonds > Not if you paid me in pearls > Not if you gave me your pinky ring > Not if you gave me your curls > > Not for all the fire in hell > Not for all the blue in the sky > Not for an empire of my own > Not even for peace of mind > > No, never, I'll never stop loving you > Not till my heart beats its last > And even then in my words and my songs > I will love you all over again > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, July 14, 2011 4:33:15 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > Sentimental? Dontcha think? > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:24 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Donald Justice - Men At Forty >> >> Men at forty >> Learn to close softly >> The doors to rooms they will not be >> Coming back to. >> >> At rest on a stair landing, >> They feel it >> Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship, >> Though the swell is gentle. >> >> And deep in mirrors >> They rediscover >> The face of the boy as he practices tying >> His father's tie there in secret >> >> And the face of that father, >> Still warm with the mystery of lather. >> They are more fathers than sons themselves now. >> Something is filling them, something >> >> That is like the twilight sound >> Of the crickets, immense, >> Filling the woods at the foot of the slope >> Behind their mortgaged houses. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* James Cervantes >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is >> inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got >> along with the best. >> >> - Jim >> >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a >>> creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. >>> >>> The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >>> One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or >>> a >>> hired assassin. >>> -- John D. MacDonald >>> >>> You would not recognize me. >>> Mine is the face which blooms in >>> The dank mirrors of washrooms >>> As you grope for the light switch. >>> >>> My eyes have the expression >>> Of the cold eyes of statues >>> Watching their pigeons return >>> From the feed you have scattered, >>> >>> And I stand on my corner >>> With the same marble patience. >>> If I move at all, it is >>> At the same pace precisely >>> >>> As the shade of the awning >>> Under which I stand waiting >>> And with whose blackness it seems >>> I am already blended. >>> >>> I speak seldom, and always >>> In a murmur as quiet >>> As that of crowds which surround >>> The victims of accidents. >>> >>> Shall I confess who I am? >>> My name is all names, or none. >>> I am the used-car salesman, >>> The tourist from Syracuse, >>> >>> The hired assassin, waiting. >>> I will stand here forever >>> Like one who has missed his bus -- >>> Familiar, anonymous -- >>> >>> On my usual corner, >>> The corner at which you turn >>> To approach that place where now >>> You must not hope to arrive. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* stephen russell >>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >>> >>> damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I >>> should spell quantity correctly. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* stephen russell >>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >>> >>> Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If >>> not for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a >>> formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is >>> pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a >>> line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted >>> home. >>> >>> I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the >>> early morning hours after his reading. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" >>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >>> >>> >>> http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead >>> >>> Special to the Press-Citizen >>> Written by >>> Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >>> Opinion >>> >>> "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle >>> of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his >>> 1973 collection, "Departures." >>> >>> That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer >>> Prize-winning poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks >>> before the publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page >>> distillation of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a >>> "poet's poet." >>> >>> While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were >>> given a single volume in which they could travel... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com// >> >> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> >> http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 16:31:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:31:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: NO women? In-Reply-To: <1310756247.99143.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> <1310756247.99143.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E20A387.6080601@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > yikes. that thing is hideous. > this jpg may be more ....... The poem is about something hideous. No my subject matter, but . . . > more language 3.JPG > maybe the jpg above. Not sure what you mean by the two lines above (in blue on my screen). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 16:50:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:50:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <1310757678.56917.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net><1310754964.29262.YahooMai lRC@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E20A1F4.6020001@nut-n-but.net> <1310757678.56917.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E20A7F8.3090801@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 2:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: > it's mine. i've done tons of them using paintshop. i used to send them > to david chirot for feedback. Chirot, btw, is outstanding on the > visual front. I guessed it was yours. Yeah, David is good. Has been having a rough time with his health. We've been in touch for quite a while. I published him once--just before my press became semi-comatose. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 15 15:52:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No women Message-ID: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ? 4 Files??View Slideshow??Download All leftovers.bmp (2111KB); insect & hat.JPG (67KB); more language 3 & 4.JPG (124KB); Political, the sequel with white strings.JPG (116KB) ________________________________ ? more language has words. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 18:01:08 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:01:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No women In-Reply-To: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 2:52 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > 4 Files View Slideshow Download All > leftovers.bmp (2111KB); insect & hat.JPG (67KB); more language 3 & > 4.JPG (124KB); Political, the sequel with white strings.JPG (116KB) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stephen, I don't know how to download the files above. --Bob > more language has words. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 18:05:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:05:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E20B9C4.6080707@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 2:17 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Never heard of him, but I've no problem with his getting the award. That would possibly be interesting if one could believe you could have a problem with anyone's getting the award. (Present company excluded so you can avoid insulting me so horribly even you are sorry afterward at what it does to me.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 17:01:53 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:01:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No women In-Reply-To: <4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: No Women, No Bob, No Taters "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/15/2011 2:52 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > > 4 Files View Slideshow Download All > leftovers.bmp (2111KB); insect & hat.JPG (67KB); more language 3 & 4.JPG > (124KB); Political, the sequel with white strings.JPG (116KB) > ------------------------------ > > > > Stephen, I don't know how to download the files above. > > --Bob > > more language has words. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 17:13:19 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:13:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <4E20B9C4.6080707@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E20B9C4.6080707@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Is there a sedimental award? - Jim On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/15/2011 2:17 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Never heard of him, but I've no problem with his getting the award. > > > That would possibly be interesting if one could believe you could have a > problem with anyone's getting the award. (Present company excluded so you > can avoid insulting me so horribly even you are sorry afterward at what it > does to me.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 18:36:56 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:36:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.659 29.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E20B9C4.60807 07@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E20C108.2020502@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 4:13 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Is there a sedimental award? > > - Jim Surely you mean, "Is there an award (in poetry) that is /not/ a sedimental award?" --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 15 18:41:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:41:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.659 29.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E20B9C4.60807 07@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E20C223.7040003@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 4:13 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Is there a sedimental award? > > - Jim Maybe I'm wrong: maybe there isn't a sedimental award, just awards for the liquid left after everything interesting has settled out. Yes, that would mean only that which dissolves in the water of the mass-mind is allowed to win an award. --Bob From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri Jul 15 20:31:18 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes Message-ID: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Here is a great math poem by Scott Helmes there are others in this set http://scriptjr.nl/issues/2.2/scott-helmes-2-2.php love to see math poems that are non narrative that are this good and can be understood Q.E.D. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From adead_poet at hotmail.com Fri Jul 15 20:38:39 2011 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:38:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok, so how is that poetry and not visual art? Educate me please. jason > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:31:18 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes > > Here is a great math poem by Scott Helmes > there are others in this set > > http://scriptjr.nl/issues/2.2/scott-helmes-2-2.php > > love to see math poems that are non narrative that are this good > and can be understood Q.E.D. > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 03:13:26 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:13:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] NO women? In-Reply-To: <4E20A7F8.3090801@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310740251.98055.YahooMailRC@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E2064BD.4030308@nut-n-but.net> <4E20A1F4.6020001@nut-n-but.net> <1310757678.56917.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E20A7F8.3090801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: David is outstanding. A miserable life, unluckily. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/15/2011 2:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > it's mine. i've done tons of them using paintshop. i used to send them to > david chirot for feedback. Chirot, btw, is outstanding on the visual front. > > > I guessed it was yours. Yeah, David is good. Has been having a rough time > with his health. We've been in touch for quite a while. I published him > once--just before my press became semi-comatose. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 07:49:10 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 06:49:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 7:38 PM, jason huff wrote: > Ok, so how is that poetry and not visual art? Educate me please. > > jason First tell me how in the world it could be considered visual art, Jason. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 07:52:09 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 06:52:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E217B69.9070302@nut-n-but.net> On 7/15/2011 7:31 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Here is a great math poem by Scott Helmes > there are others in this set > > http://scriptjr.nl/issues/2.2/scott-helmes-2-2.php > > love to see math poems that are non narrative that are this good > and can be understood Q.E.D. I like it but I sure don't understand Q. E. D. Aside from that, I'm intrigued by the notion of a narrative mathematical poem. I've never seen one. Can you cite any examples, David? --Bob From adead_poet at hotmail.com Sat Jul 16 07:28:29 2011 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 06:28:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: well, most of them didn't even have words... they looked like drawings to me. jason Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 06:49:10 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes On 7/15/2011 7:38 PM, jason huff wrote: Ok, so how is that poetry and not visual art? Educate me please. jason First tell me how in the world it could be considered visual art, Jason. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 10:10:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:10:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> On 7/16/2011 6:28 AM, jason huff wrote: > well, most of them didn't even have words... they looked like drawings > to me. > > jason I just looked at the one David directed us to. Its title, apparently, is "L(&@." It's all words and mathematical symbols. Geof Huth would call it a visual poem, but he (albeit a good friend of mine) doesn't know the difference between seeing and reading. It's a mathematical poem (for me) because it carries out mathematical operations on words that contribute significantly to the aesthetic meaning of the work. I agree with you that the ones without words are not poems, but I'm in a big minority among those doing this kind of art. Like most of the people at New-Poetry, it would seem, they are opposed to any definition of poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adead_poet at hotmail.com Sat Jul 16 09:38:20 2011 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:38:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net>, , <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Oh I'm not saying they aren't poems, I just don't understand them and I'm trying to. jason Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:10:40 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes On 7/16/2011 6:28 AM, jason huff wrote: well, most of them didn't even have words... they looked like drawings to me. jason I just looked at the one David directed us to. Its title, apparently, is "L(&@." It's all words and mathematical symbols. Geof Huth would call it a visual poem, but he (albeit a good friend of mine) doesn't know the difference between seeing and reading. It's a mathematical poem (for me) because it carries out mathematical operations on words that contribute significantly to the aesthetic meaning of the work. I agree with you that the ones without words are not poems, but I'm in a big minority among those doing this kind of art. Like most of the people at New-Poetry, it would seem, they are opposed to any definition of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 12:57:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:57:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net>, , <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E21C311.4020802@nut-n-but.net> On 7/16/2011 8:38 AM, jason huff wrote: > Oh I'm not saying they aren't poems, I just don't understand them and > I'm trying to. > > jason Well, I believe a poem is a work of literature, and a work of literature, by definition, is a work consisting of words--although not necessarily only words. I'm overwhelmed (as usual) with things to do but will try to take a close look at the work of Helmes you're having trouble with. Among my favorite Helmes works are what he calls his "visual haiku." Many of these have no words, or no words that make any kind of good semantic sense--or, at least, semantic sense that contributes to any central aesthetic meaning of the work they're in; some don't even have textual elements. Naturally, this means one has to look elsewhere than at what they mean the way conventional poems mean to appreciate them. I find that, aside from what they do as visual designs, which is usually quite sophisticated and effective to those, like me, who appreciate non-representational painting, what counts is the way they visually do things that suggest what haiku do verbally. A simple example would be the way they are often arranged in three lines, like classical 5/7/5 haiku. But there's much more, mainly the way they present two images (often) that work with or against each other the way the two verbalized images of most good haiku work with or against each other. In this manner, they become metaphors for haiku. But only one with a deep background in haiku is likely fully to enjoy them. A few others seem to me to make visual statements about the struggle to convey meaning. Perhaps acting as a kind of pre-language straining to become language. Or they say or suggest something about the way language can break down. Etc. What I hope I can do one day is work up a book about Helmes's work--or get someone else to. On the order of books that conventional poets nowadays seem to get dozens of, albeit rarely until they're no longer necessary, the poet either having died or become famous and awarded without them. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 13:07:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:07:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net>, , <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E21C53B.4030404@nut-n-but.net> You have me writing, Jason. Last word: I thought it'd be interesting to New-Poetry to know that you (unless my memory is really bad) are one of the few who has actually bought and read my book, /Of Manywhere-at-Once/, although it failed to convert you. Glad you're still trying to make sense of it, though. all best, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 13:04:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:04:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net>, , <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E21C49C.5020500@nut-n-but.net> Speaking of the need of a critical book on the work of Scott Helmes, and several other American visual poets now over fifty, I believe I may still be the only one who has yet written a book about the whole field of American visual poets, although a few have been written about visual poetry such as Dick Higgins's one about shaped poems. Mary Ellen Solt, though, wrote the equivalent of a book as the introduction to her anthology of visual poetry, then called concrete poetry, forty years ago. She did a good job but covered international visual poetry, not American visual poetry. Make that North American visual poetry. We and the Canadians have always been in the same country as far as visual poetry is concerned. I think we've all done well by south of the border visual poets, too--but their languages are different, and that matters (if only for me) in visual poetry. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:23:17 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:23:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: <4E21C311.4020802@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E217AB6.3060002@nut-n-but.net> <4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net> <4E21C311.4020802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Be patient, Jason. B-bob will soon explain all. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/16/2011 8:38 AM, jason huff wrote: > > Oh I'm not saying they aren't poems, I just don't understand them and I'm > trying to. > > jason > > > Well, I believe a poem is a work of literature, and a work of literature, > by definition, is a work consisting of words--although not necessarily only > words. I'm overwhelmed (as usual) with things to do but will try to take a > close look at the work of Helmes you're having trouble with. > > Among my favorite Helmes works are what he calls his "visual haiku." Many > of these have no words, or no words that make any kind of good semantic > sense--or, at least, semantic sense that contributes to any central > aesthetic meaning of the work they're in; some don't even have textual > elements. Naturally, this means one has to look elsewhere than at what they > mean the way conventional poems mean to appreciate them. I find that, aside > from what they do as visual designs, which is usually quite sophisticated > and effective to those, like me, who appreciate non-representational > painting, what counts is the way they visually do things that suggest what > haiku do verbally. > > A simple example would be the way they are often arranged in three lines, > like classical 5/7/5 haiku. But there's much more, mainly the way they > present two images (often) that work with or against each other the way the > two verbalized images of most good haiku work with or against each other. > In this manner, they become metaphors for haiku. But only one with a deep > background in haiku is likely fully to enjoy them. > > A few others seem to me to make visual statements about the struggle to > convey meaning. Perhaps acting as a kind of pre-language straining to > become language. Or they say or suggest something about the way language > can break down. Etc. What I hope I can do one day is work up a book about > Helmes's work--or get someone else to. On the order of books that > conventional poets nowadays seem to get dozens of, albeit rarely until > they're no longer necessary, the poet either having died or become famous > and awarded without them. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 13:43:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:43:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Helmes In-Reply-To: References: <1310776278.70954.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E217AB6 .3060002@nut-n-but.net><4E219BE0.1070406@nut-n-but.net><4E21C311.4020802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E21CDBD.7080307@nut-n-but.net> On 7/16/2011 11:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Be patient, Jason. B-bob will soon explain all. > No, B-bob will merely discuss them in what he hopes will be a helpful way instead of mocking all attempts to get at the Great Mystery of High Art--or to understand anything else. --Bob (by the main name he goes by, which anti-namers seem to have to replace with some other name for some reason) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 15:13:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <4E20C223.7040003@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.659 29.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E20B9C4.60807 07@nut-n-but.net> <4E20C223.7040003@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310843606.68593.YahooMailRC@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> there should be a vulgar prize to compliment the noble prize. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 6:41:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice On 7/15/2011 4:13 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Is there a sedimental award? > > - Jim Maybe I'm wrong: maybe there isn't a sedimental award, just awards for the liquid left after everything interesting has settled out. Yes, that would mean only that which dissolves in the water of the mass-mind is allowed to win an award. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 15:36:05 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] No women In-Reply-To: <4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310844965.54726.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i screwed up. didn't send as attachments. too busy, and working on a borrowed computer. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 6:01:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] No women On 7/15/2011 2:52 PM, stephen russell wrote: 4 Files View Slideshow Download All >leftovers.bmp (2111KB); insect & hat.JPG (67KB); more >language 3 & 4.JPG (124KB); Political, the sequel with >white strings.JPG (116KB) > ________________________________ > Stephen, I don't know how to download the files above. --Bob more language has words. > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 17:09:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:09:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No women In-Reply-To: <1310844965.54726.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310759552.27124.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E20B8A4.6060905@nut-n-but.net> <1310844965.54726.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E21FE0F.4090507@nut-n-but.net> On 7/16/2011 2:36 PM, stephen russell wrote: > i screwed up. didn't send as attachments. too busy, and working on a > borrowed computer. When you have time, send 'em and I'll take a look. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 16:20:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:20:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] npr Message-ID: 9am ? 10am World Cafe Hearing Voices Hearing Voices, an exceptional program. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Sat Jul 16 17:22:26 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe you did real math poems not faux math. In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation which shows completion of a proof "I have proven this" or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" quod erat demonstrandum There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. Albeit, a few words and math symbols but only for trope's sake: to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the work. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jul 16 19:11:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:11:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> On 7/16/2011 4:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe > you did real math poems not faux math. > > In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation > which shows completion of a proof > "I have proven this" > or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" > quod erat demonstrandum I know all about Q.E.D., David. I also know that I've done a lot of calculus without using Q.E.D. And used QED in other fields besides math. I did some mathematical proofs, too, in one course I took. Dunno whether I bothered to Q.E.D. it. If I ever came up with an original proof, I don't think others in mathematics would complain if I left out the Q. E.D. I don't care what others believe about my math poems; I know I do what I say I do in them: carry out mathematical operations on words. I could put a Q.E.D. after most of them but it'd look silly. Some are not equations. > There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD > somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. > I now recall that I did a math poem that was part narrative--the narrative showed the poem coming together in steps. Another consisted of three scenes, a spring, one, a summer one, and a winter one, so could be considered a narrative about the passage of time. But I've never seen one that I'd consider more a narrative poem than anything else, the way many of Frost's poems are recognizably narratives. > Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. > Albeit, a few words and math symbols > but only for trope's sake: > to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the work. > I think they do more than that, David. Some contribute to or are metaphors. All act as words and thus do what words do. Metonyumy and/or synecdoche, too--to establish a mathematical tone for work against the poetic tone of the poem, such as it is. That is, I don't find the poem part of the work to be very "poetic"--very lyrical. It's more mathematics expressed in words. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 01:55:13 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:55:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Do you know when he wrote this poem? I think it is for his daughter, it is sincere. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/15/2011 12:59 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather > sweet poem: > > > You don't think maybe he was paordying anything? > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 01:57:16 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:57:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310586695.78965.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A great poem. On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Donald Justice - Men At Forty > > Men at forty > Learn to close softly > The doors to rooms they will not be > Coming back to. > > At rest on a stair landing, > They feel it > Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship, > Though the swell is gentle. > > And deep in mirrors > They rediscover > The face of the boy as he practices tying > His father's tie there in secret > > And the face of that father, > Still warm with the mystery of lather. > They are more fathers than sons themselves now. > Something is filling them, something > > That is like the twilight sound > Of the crickets, immense, > Filling the woods at the foot of the slope > Behind their mortgaged houses. > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Cervantes > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 9:56:27 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice > > The face in the mirror is a well-known Justice trope. The noir feel is > inherent. Donald was my first teacher at Iowa and the one poet there I got > along with the best. > > - Jim > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> This is the poem by Justice based on a line by John MacDonald: has a >> creepy noir feel. More sinister than MacDonald. >> >> The Tourist From Syracuse by Donald Justice >> One of those men who can be a car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a >> hired assassin. >> -- John D. MacDonald >> >> You would not recognize me. >> Mine is the face which blooms in >> The dank mirrors of washrooms >> As you grope for the light switch. >> >> My eyes have the expression >> Of the cold eyes of statues >> Watching their pigeons return >> From the feed you have scattered, >> >> And I stand on my corner >> With the same marble patience. >> If I move at all, it is >> At the same pace precisely >> >> As the shade of the awning >> Under which I stand waiting >> And with whose blackness it seems >> I am already blended. >> >> I speak seldom, and always >> In a murmur as quiet >> As that of crowds which surround >> The victims of accidents. >> >> Shall I confess who I am? >> My name is all names, or none. >> I am the used-car salesman, >> The tourist from Syracuse, >> >> The hired assassin, waiting. >> I will stand here forever >> Like one who has missed his bus -- >> Familiar, anonymous -- >> >> On my usual corner, >> The corner at which you turn >> To approach that place where now >> You must not hope to arrive. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* stephen russell >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 3:51:35 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> damndamndamn .... when talking about a writer the quality of Justice, I >> should spell quantity correctly. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* stephen russell >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 2:06:53 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> Donald Justice gave the world the collected works of Weldon Kees. If not >> for Justice, Kees would be forgotten. Justice was a perfectionist, and a >> formalist. He didn't produce a large quanity of work, but the quality is >> pristine. He was also fond of crime fiction. One of his poems is based on a >> line by John McDonald, the great crime writer who made Florida his adopted >> home. >> >> I met Donald Justice while at Florida State, and talked with him into the >> early morning hours after his reading. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 1:11:16 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice >> >> >> http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110713/OPINION03/107130301/Why-we-keep-rereading-Donald-Justice?odyssey=nav%7Chead >> >> Special to the Press-Citizen >> Written by >> Jeff Charis-Carlson Filed Under >> Opinion >> >> "Donald Justice is dead," Donald Justice himself wrote toward the middle >> of his poem "Variations on a Text by Vallejo," which was included in his >> 1973 collection, "Departures." >> >> That sentence took on new meaning in 2004, when the Pulitzer Prize-winning >> poet and longtime Iowa City resident died just a few weeks before the >> publication of his "Collected Poems," which provided a 300-page distillation >> of a lifetime's worth of work from a man often hailed as a "poet's poet." >> >> While still in mourning for the poet, devoted readers that year were given >> a single volume in which they could travel... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com// > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 09:41:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com> <1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1310752752.65929.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310996514.65942.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That's what I thought. Although I don't know when Berstein wrote it, he choose to end his collected poems (published this year) with All The Whiskey In Heaven, ?the title of the collection. Since there wasn't a dedication, I assumed that Berstein was addressing the reader. Yeah, I also liked the Justice poem. It's poignant. But again, who can account for the taste factor. What's poignant to one reader,?may seem merely ?sendimental to another -- ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 1:55:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice Do you know when he wrote this poem? I think it is for his daughter, it is sincere. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 7/15/2011 12:59 PM, stephen russell wrote: >Charles Berstein gets the sentimental award, although this is a rather sweet >poem: You don't think maybe he was paordying anything? > > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 09:47:40 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a narrative?arithmitic poem. It's funny enough to post again. The Biology of Numbers Once I dated a woman I only liked 43%. So I only listened to 43% of what she said. Only told the truth 43% of the time. And only kissed with 43% of my lips. Some say you can't quantify desire, attaching a number to passion isn't right, that the human heart doesn't work like that. But for me it does-I walk down the street and numbers appear on the foreheads of the people I look at. In bars, it's worse. With each drink, the numbers go up until every woman in the joint has a blurry eighty something above her eyebrows, and the next day I can only remember 17% of what actually happened. That's the problem with booze-it screws with your math. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, July 16, 2011 7:11:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] scott h On 7/16/2011 4:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe > you did real math poems not faux math. > > In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation > which shows completion of a proof > "I have proven this" > or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" > quod erat demonstrandum I know all about Q.E.D., David.? I also know that I've done a lot of calculus without using Q.E.D.? And used QED in other fields besides math.? I did some mathematical proofs, too, in one course I took.? Dunno whether I bothered to Q.E.D. it.? If I ever came up with an original proof, I don't think others in mathematics would complain if I left out the Q. E.D. I don't care what others believe about my math poems; I know I do what I say I do in them: carry out mathematical operations on words.? I could put a Q.E.D. after most of them but it'd look silly.? Some are not equations. > There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD > somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. > I now recall that I did a math poem that was part narrative--the narrative showed the poem coming together in steps.? Another consisted of three scenes, a spring, one, a summer one, and a winter one, so could be considered a narrative about the passage of time.? But I've never seen one that I'd consider more a narrative poem than anything else, the way many of Frost's poems are recognizably narratives. > Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. > Albeit, a few words and math symbols > but only for trope's sake: > to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the work. > I think they do more than that, David.? Some contribute to or are metaphors.? All act as words and thus do what words do.? Metonyumy and/or synecdoche, too--to establish a mathematical tone for work against the poetic tone of the poem, such as it is.? That is, I don't find the poem part of the work to be very "poetic"--very lyrical.? It's more mathematics expressed in words. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 10:41:24 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:41:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's a fantastic anthology "Strange Attractors: Poems of Love and Mathematics" that came out a couple of years ago -- here's a poem from the anthology by Rita Dove: *Geometry* I prove a theorem and the house expands: the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, the ceiling floats away with a sigh. As the walls clear themselves of everything but transparency, the scent of carnations leaves with them. I am out in the open and above the windows have hinged into butterflies, sunlight glinting where they've intersected. They are going to some point true and unproven. Here's one by Kaz Maslanaka (The picture is in Microsoft Equation Editor -- if it doesn't come out, backchannel me for a .doc attachment.) Sacrifice and Bliss Love = Carol talkingwriting.com On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:47 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a > narrative arithmitic poem. > It's funny enough to post again. > > > > *The Biology of Numbers * > > Once I dated a woman I only liked 43%. > So I only listened to 43% of what she said. > Only told the truth 43% of the time. > And only kissed with 43% of my lips. > > Some say you can't quantify desire, > attaching a number to passion isn't right, > that the human heart doesn't work like that. > But for me it does-I walk down the street > > and numbers appear on the foreheads > of the people I look at. In bars, it's worse. > With each drink, the numbers go up > until every woman in the joint has a blurry > > eighty something above her eyebrows, > and the next day I can only remember 17% > of what actually happened. That's the problem > with booze-it screws with your math. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, July 16, 2011 7:11:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] scott h > > On 7/16/2011 4:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: > > Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe > > you did real math poems not faux math. > > > > In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation > > which shows completion of a proof > > "I have proven this" > > or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" > > quod erat demonstrandum > > I know all about Q.E.D., David. I also know that I've done a lot of > calculus without using Q.E.D. And used QED in other fields besides math. I > did some mathematical proofs, too, in one course I took. Dunno whether I > bothered to Q.E.D. it. If I ever came up with an original proof, I don't > think others in mathematics would complain if I left out the Q. E.D. > > I don't care what others believe about my math poems; I know I do what I > say I do in them: carry out mathematical operations on words. I could put a > Q.E.D. after most of them but it'd look silly. Some are not equations. > > > > There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD > > somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. > > > I now recall that I did a math poem that was part narrative--the narrative > showed the poem coming together in steps. Another consisted of three > scenes, a spring, one, a summer one, and a winter one, so could be > considered a narrative about the passage of time. But I've never seen one > that I'd consider more a narrative poem than anything else, the way many of > Frost's poems are recognizably narratives. > > > > Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. > > Albeit, a few words and math symbols > > but only for trope's sake: > > to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the work. > > > I think they do more than that, David. Some contribute to or are > metaphors. All act as words and thus do what words do. Metonyumy and/or > synecdoche, too--to establish a mathematical tone for work against the > poetic tone of the poem, such as it is. That is, I don't find the poem part > of the work to be very "poetic"--very lyrical. It's more mathematics > expressed in words. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 14:21:20 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:21:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: :-) On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a > narrative arithmitic poem. > It's funny enough to post again. > > > > *The Biology of Numbers * > > Once I dated a woman I only liked 43%. > So I only listened to 43% of what she said. > Only told the truth 43% of the time. > And only kissed with 43% of my lips. > > Some say you can't quantify desire, > attaching a number to passion isn't right, > that the human heart doesn't work like that. > But for me it does-I walk down the street > > and numbers appear on the foreheads > of the people I look at. In bars, it's worse. > With each drink, the numbers go up > until every woman in the joint has a blurry > > eighty something above her eyebrows, > and the next day I can only remember 17% > of what actually happened. That's the problem > with booze-it screws with your math. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Sat, July 16, 2011 7:11:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] scott h > > On 7/16/2011 4:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: > > Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe > > you did real math poems not faux math. > > > > In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation > > which shows completion of a proof > > "I have proven this" > > or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" > > quod erat demonstrandum > > I know all about Q.E.D., David. I also know that I've done a lot of > calculus without using Q.E.D. And used QED in other fields besides math. I > did some mathematical proofs, too, in one course I took. Dunno whether I > bothered to Q.E.D. it. If I ever came up with an original proof, I don't > think others in mathematics would complain if I left out the Q. E.D. > > I don't care what others believe about my math poems; I know I do what I > say I do in them: carry out mathematical operations on words. I could put a > Q.E.D. after most of them but it'd look silly. Some are not equations. > > > > There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD > > somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. > > > I now recall that I did a math poem that was part narrative--the narrative > showed the poem coming together in steps. Another consisted of three > scenes, a spring, one, a summer one, and a winter one, so could be > considered a narrative about the passage of time. But I've never seen one > that I'd consider more a narrative poem than anything else, the way many of > Frost's poems are recognizably narratives. > > > > Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. > > Albeit, a few words and math symbols > > but only for trope's sake: > > to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the work. > > > I think they do more than that, David. Some contribute to or are > metaphors. All act as words and thus do what words do. Metonyumy and/or > synecdoche, too--to establish a mathematical tone for work against the > poetic tone of the poem, such as it is. That is, I don't find the poem part > of the work to be very "poetic"--very lyrical. It's more mathematics > expressed in words. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 14:22:44 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:22:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: fanciful, I like the butterflies. On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:41 PM, carol dorf wrote: > There's a fantastic anthology "Strange Attractors: Poems of Love and > Mathematics" that came out a couple of years ago -- here's a poem from the > anthology by Rita Dove: > > *Geometry* > I prove a theorem and the house expands: > the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, > the ceiling floats away with a sigh. > > As the walls clear themselves of everything > but transparency, the scent of carnations > leaves with them. I am out in the open > > and above the windows have hinged into butterflies, > sunlight glinting where they've intersected. > They are going to some point true and unproven. > > > Here's one by Kaz Maslanaka (The picture is in Microsoft Equation Editor -- > if it doesn't come out, backchannel me for a .doc attachment.) > > Sacrifice and Bliss > > Love = > > > > > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:47 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a >> narrative arithmitic poem. >> It's funny enough to post again. >> >> >> >> *The Biology of Numbers * >> >> Once I dated a woman I only liked 43%. >> So I only listened to 43% of what she said. >> Only told the truth 43% of the time. >> And only kissed with 43% of my lips. >> >> Some say you can't quantify desire, >> attaching a number to passion isn't right, >> that the human heart doesn't work like that. >> But for me it does-I walk down the street >> >> and numbers appear on the foreheads >> of the people I look at. In bars, it's worse. >> With each drink, the numbers go up >> until every woman in the joint has a blurry >> >> eighty something above her eyebrows, >> and the next day I can only remember 17% >> of what actually happened. That's the problem >> with booze-it screws with your math. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Bob Grumman >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Sat, July 16, 2011 7:11:27 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] scott h >> >> On 7/16/2011 4:22 PM, David Baratier wrote: >> > Jeez Bob, I thought you wanted others to believe >> > you did real math poems not faux math. >> > >> > In "real math" Q.E.D. is term placed at the end of an equation >> > which shows completion of a proof >> > "I have proven this" >> > or "therefore, I have proven what was to be demonstrated" >> > quod erat demonstrandum >> >> I know all about Q.E.D., David. I also know that I've done a lot of >> calculus without using Q.E.D. And used QED in other fields besides math. I >> did some mathematical proofs, too, in one course I took. Dunno whether I >> bothered to Q.E.D. it. If I ever came up with an original proof, I don't >> think others in mathematics would complain if I left out the Q. E.D. >> >> I don't care what others believe about my math poems; I know I do what I >> say I do in them: carry out mathematical operations on words. I could put a >> Q.E.D. after most of them but it'd look silly. Some are not equations. >> >> >> > There was an example of a narrative math poem by Jeff McD >> > somebody just posted recently, read the last few days. >> > >> I now recall that I did a math poem that was part narrative--the narrative >> showed the poem coming together in steps. Another consisted of three >> scenes, a spring, one, a summer one, and a winter one, so could be >> considered a narrative about the passage of time. But I've never seen one >> that I'd consider more a narrative poem than anything else, the way many of >> Frost's poems are recognizably narratives. >> >> >> > Jason: The math poem is poem because it is composed of words. >> > Albeit, a few words and math symbols >> > but only for trope's sake: >> > to confer and carry the effects of metonymy and synecdoche into the >> work. >> > >> I think they do more than that, David. Some contribute to or are >> metaphors. All act as words and thus do what words do. Metonyumy and/or >> synecdoche, too--to establish a mathematical tone for work against the >> poetic tone of the poem, such as it is. That is, I don't find the poem part >> of the work to be very "poetic"--very lyrical. It's more mathematics >> expressed in words. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 16:17:38 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:17:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <1310996514.65942.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.659 29.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> <1310996514.65942.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E2494E2.7040904@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 8:41 AM, stephen russell wrote: > That's what I thought. Although I don't know when Berstein wrote it, > he choose to end his collected poems (published this year) with All > The Whiskey In Heaven, the title of the collection. Since there > wasn't a dedication, I assumed that Berstein was addressing the reader. I'm no Bernstein expert but I can see he was being seriously silly, which is one of his poetic modes. A kind of open-hearted cowboy expansiveness to celebrate an ordinary mood--maybe in contrast to language-poetry seriousness. But I can't bring to mind his language poetry well enough to decide if it was "serious." He has a reputation for being comic--vaudeville turns, etc. The poems of his I remember were funny. He used to be much worse about the poets of Wilshberia than I. I wonder what he says about them now that he may be one of them. Certain poets called language poets are really just Ashberylike, but others--P. Inman, for sure--definitely aren't. In those of their poems I know. One can be a part-time Wilshberian poet, of course. I am. Looks like I /can't/ go a full week without bringing up Wilshberia. But why should that bother anyone considering how little anyone is bringing up anything at New-Poetry. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 15:20:11 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice In-Reply-To: <4E2494E2.7040904@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE0F9702920191-C98-C186@webmail-d162.sysops.aol.com><1310580413.2169.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310 598016.61113.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310671454.4810.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1310752752.659 29.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E209ED3.3000703@nut-n-but.net> <1310996514.65942.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E2494E2.7040904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311016811.58113.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I think he was being silly until the end. However, the sweet ending would be more in line with something a father would write for his daughter ( as Anny indicated earlier). There, one might not worry so much about what is or isn't sedimental. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 4:17:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on Donald Justice On 7/18/2011 8:41 AM, stephen russell wrote: That's what I thought. Although I don't know when Berstein wrote it, he choose to end his collected poems (published this year) with All The Whiskey In Heaven, ?the title of the collection. Since there wasn't a dedication, I assumed that Berstein was addressing the reader. >I'm no Bernstein expert but I can see he was being seriously silly, which is one >of his poetic modes.? A kind of open-hearted cowboy expansiveness to celebrate >an ordinary mood--maybe in contrast to language-poetry seriousness.? But I can't >bring to mind his language poetry well enough to decide if it was "serious."? He >has a reputation for being comic--vaudeville turns, etc.? The poems of his I >remember were funny. He used to be much worse about the poets of Wilshberia than I.? I wonder what he says about them now that he may be one of them.? Certain poets called language poets are really just Ashberylike, but others--P. Inman, for sure--definitely aren't.? In those of their poems I know.? One can be a part-time Wilshberian poet, of course.? I am. Looks like I can't go a full week without bringing up Wilshberia.? But why should that bother anyone considering how little anyone is bringing up anything at New-Poetry. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 16:28:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:28:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 8:47 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a > narrative arithmitic poem. > It's funny enough to post again. > Fun poem but not a mathematical poem in any way--unless a poem with the line, "I wuz halfway to Georgia when my suspenders done busted," is. Or "She was 7' 3" tall." (Some call sonnets mathematical because you have to count syllables to make one.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 16:30:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:30:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 9:41 AM, carol dorf wrote: > There's a fantastic anthology "Strange Attractors: Poems of Love and > Mathematics" that came out a couple of years ago -- here's a poem from > the anthology by Rita Dove: > > *Geometry* > I prove a theorem and the house expands: > the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, > the ceiling floats away with a sigh. > > As the walls clear themselves of everything > but transparency, the scent of carnations > leaves with them. I am out in the open > > and above the windows have hinged into butterflies, > sunlight glinting where they've intersected. > They are going to some point true and unproven. > > > Here's one by Kaz Maslanaka (The picture is in Microsoft Equation > Editor -- if it doesn't come out, backchannel me for a .doc attachment.) > > Sacrifice and Bliss > > Love = > > > > > > Carol > talkingwriting.com Harumph, Carol. I have one in there, too. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 15:49:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> sometimes the way certain extended metaphors work strike me as mathmatical. In a let n be a negative integer sort of way. For instance: the line ...?the moon is almost as old as my father ... is empirically false, but the writer, David Posner, goes on to make the metaphor work through a certain line by line logic. ?I can't find the poem online. I'd like to post it because I love good extended metaphors. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 4:28:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] scott h On 7/18/2011 8:47 AM, stephen russell wrote: I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a narrative?arithmitic poem. >It's funny enough to post again. > >Fun poem but not a mathematical poem in any way--unless a poem with the line, "I >wuz halfway to Georgia when my suspenders done busted," is.? Or "She was 7' 3" >tall."? (Some call sonnets mathematical because you have to count syllables to >make one.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 15:53:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1310996860.65624.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> you only have to count syllables if the sonnet is accentual, and many are not. some simply rhyme using traditional sonnet rhyme schemes. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 3:49:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] scott h sometimes the way certain extended metaphors work strike me as mathmatical. In a let n be a negative integer sort of way. For instance: the line ...?the moon is almost as old as my father ... is empirically false, but the writer, David Posner, goes on to make the metaphor work through a certain line by line logic. ?I can't find the poem online. I'd like to post it because I love good extended metaphors. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 4:28:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] scott h On 7/18/2011 8:47 AM, stephen russell wrote: I posted the Jeffrey McDanel poem. Although I consider a narrative?arithmitic poem. >It's funny enough to post again. > >Fun poem but not a mathematical poem in any way--unless a poem with the line, "I >wuz halfway to Georgia when my suspenders done busted," is.? Or "She was 7' 3" >tall."? (Some call sonnets mathematical because you have to count syllables to >make one.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 16:29:33 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:29:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: And here is Bob's (though I couldn't get the formatting completely right.) Note the graphic on top is a heart, though I wasn't able to get it to copy onto here. ________(_)____ poetry ) *existence* * **somewhere, minutely, a widening* existence On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/18/2011 9:41 AM, carol dorf wrote: > > There's a fantastic anthology "Strange Attractors: Poems of Love and > Mathematics" that came out a couple of years ago -- here's a poem from the > anthology by Rita Dove: > > *Geometry* > I prove a theorem and the house expands: > the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, > the ceiling floats away with a sigh. > > As the walls clear themselves of everything > but transparency, the scent of carnations > leaves with them. I am out in the open > > and above the windows have hinged into butterflies, > sunlight glinting where they've intersected. > They are going to some point true and unproven. > > > Here's one by Kaz Maslanaka (The picture is in Microsoft Equation Editor -- > if it doesn't come out, backchannel me for a .doc attachment.) > > Sacrifice and Bliss > > Love = > > > > > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > > Harumph, Carol. I have one in there, too. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 17:50:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:50:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 3:29 PM, carol dorf wrote: > And here is Bob's (though I couldn't get the formatting completely right.) > > Note the graphic on top is a heart, though I wasn't able to get it to > copy onto here. > > > ________(_)____ > > poetry) /existence/ > > //_somewhere, minutely, a widening_ > > existence > > > Yikes, Carol, how dare you! You improved it!!!! (Seriously, I've used the parentheses around nothing more than once. Here, the capturing by poetry of something inexpressible seems pretty neat to me. Question: are the parentheses required? Should the quotient be blank?) JoAnne, my editor, had all kinds of trouble getting this poem of mine formatted right, by the way. As above is close enough--the the valentine heart specified. Another thought hit me--a poem as a failed attempt to post a poem using graphics with footnotes indicating what couldn't be copied . . . In any case, thanks for the follow-up--Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 16:57:52 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kenneth Patchen/visual poetry Message-ID: <1311022672.37313.YahooMailRC@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Did Kenneth Patchen ever do a visual poem? Many of his poems came with companion drawings. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 18:05:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:05:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E24AE3A.5030602@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 2:53 PM, stephen russell wrote: > you only have to count syllables if the sonnet is accentual, and many > are not. some simply rhyme using traditional sonnet rhyme schemes. Depends on how you define a sonnet. Some things called sonnets don't rhyme, don't scan and are less or more than 14 lines long. I believe in names that distinguish one kind of artwork from others, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 18:12:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> Well, I checked what Bernstein has in /The American Tree/ and found that he /is/, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 18:14:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:14:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kenneth Patchen/visual poetry In-Reply-To: <1311022672.37313.YahooMailRC@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311022672.37313.YahooMailRC@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E24B028.6060801@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 3:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Did Kenneth Patchen ever do a visual poem? > Many of his poems came with companion drawings. Yes. I prefer his illustrated poems. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 17:23:37 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:23:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Surely you can devise a name for that--a name that no one but you would ever use. Another thought hit me--a poem as a failed attempt to post a poem using graphics with footnotes indicating what couldn't be copied . "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/18/2011 3:29 PM, carol dorf wrote: > > And here is Bob's (though I couldn't get the formatting completely right.) > > Note the graphic on top is a heart, though I wasn't able to get it to copy > onto here. > > > > > ________(_)____ > > poetry ) *existence* > > * **somewhere, minutely, a widening* > > existence > > > > Yikes, Carol, how dare you! You improved it!!!! (Seriously, I've used > the parentheses around nothing more than once. Here, the capturing by > poetry of something inexpressible seems pretty neat to me. Question: are > the parentheses required? Should the quotient be blank?) > > JoAnne, my editor, had all kinds of trouble getting this poem of mine > formatted right, by the way. As above is close enough--the the valentine > heart specified. > > Another thought hit me--a poem as a failed attempt to post a poem using > graphics with footnotes indicating what couldn't be copied . . . > > In any case, thanks for the follow-up--Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Jul 18 17:50:20 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E24AE3A.5030602@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AE3A.5030602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311025820.79709.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I agree. Certain poems continue to be called sonnets when they bear almost no resemblance to the actual form. It seems pointless. Why not find a different name, or simply consider them as poems that do not fit a particular catagory. If we're unable to distinguish between on form from another, how can we appreciate difference? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 6:05:46 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] scott h On 7/18/2011 2:53 PM, stephen russell wrote: you only have to count syllables if the sonnet is accentual, and many are not. some simply rhyme using traditional sonnet rhyme schemes. > Depends on how you define a sonnet. Some things called sonnets don't rhyme, don't scan and are less or more than 14 lines long. I believe in names that distinguish one kind of artwork from others, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 18:42:28 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:42:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] July 2011 issue of Sol: English Writing in Mexico Message-ID: The July 2011 issue of *Sol: English Writing in Mexico* is online and we hope you'll check it out right away. And forward this email to your friends who like good writing, too! Once again, we have a terrific selection of fiction, nonficion, and poetry. Just a sample: an excerpt from Tony Cohan's new novel, soon to be out; a coming of age short story about a family trip to the beach by Carolyn Roberts; a peek into the secrets of the Rosenberg case by Walter Schneir; poetry from James A. Hawley, Halvard Johnson and others; and much, much more. We love getting your comments. Let us, and our writers, know what you think! Eva Hunter Editor Here we are: www.solliterarymagazine.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jul 18 21:09:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:09:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net><4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-bu t.net> Message-ID: <4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Surely you can devise a name for that--a name that no one but you > would ever use. > > Right, Hal. I could also use lipsticks of several different colors to spell the word, "hHpLDF," across sidewalks in front of the houses of the sentient beetles ruling our planet while singing "I'm Looking Over a Four-Leaf Clover." (While /I/ sang said song, not the sentient beetles, who never sing anything but arias from Verdi operas.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 20:07:28 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:07:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Which operas? "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/18/2011 4:23 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Surely you can devise a name for that--a name that no one but you would > ever use. > > > Right, Hal. I could also use lipsticks of several different colors to > spell the word, "hHpLDF," across sidewalks in front of the houses of the > sentient beetles ruling our planet while singing "I'm Looking Over a > Four-Leaf Clover." (While *I* sang said song, not the sentient beetles, > who never sing anything but arias from Verdi operas.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 02:48:14 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:48:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AA8B.6040807@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: With the brackets it does improve, although I did not see the previous version but have to imagine it. It is as if Nothingness dominated upon existence, etc. On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/18/2011 3:29 PM, carol dorf wrote: > > And here is Bob's (though I couldn't get the formatting completely right.) > > Note the graphic on top is a heart, though I wasn't able to get it to copy > onto here. > > > > > ________(_)____ > > poetry ) *existence* > > * **somewhere, minutely, a widening* > > existence > > > > Yikes, Carol, how dare you! You improved it!!!! (Seriously, I've used > the parentheses around nothing more than once. Here, the capturing by > poetry of something inexpressible seems pretty neat to me. Question: are > the parentheses required? Should the quotient be blank?) > > JoAnne, my editor, had all kinds of trouble getting this poem of mine > formatted right, by the way. As above is close enough--the the valentine > heart specified. > > Another thought hit me--a poem as a failed attempt to post a poem using > graphics with footnotes indicating what couldn't be copied . . . > > In any case, thanks for the follow-up--Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jul 19 10:57:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:57:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net><4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> On 7/18/2011 7:07 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Which operas? All of them. For all ranges. I have a nine-octave range. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 10:23:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:23:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-but.net> <4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah, you're the Yma Sumac of the nomenclature world. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/18/2011 7:07 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Which operas? > > All of them. For all ranges. I have a nine-octave range. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Jul 19 11:06:11 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:06:11 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho, oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com, > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. No wit to it, just attitudes. Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews apologized about being handsome. It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jul 19 12:32:09 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:32:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net><4E24D951.6010402@nut-n-bu t.net><4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E25B189.1020204@nut-n-but.net> On 7/19/2011 9:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Ah, you're the Yma Sumac of the nomenclature world. > I thought we were talking about Verdi. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 11:29:12 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:29:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E25B189.1020204@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B189.1020204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: You were talking about range. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/19/2011 9:23 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Ah, you're the Yma Sumac of the nomenclature world. > > > > I thought we were talking about Verdi. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jul 19 12:44:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:44:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho, oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com, > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> On 7/19/2011 10:06 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. > > It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. > > No wit to it, just attitudes. > > Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce > Andrews apologized about being handsome. He wasn't joking? > > It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. > > Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical > medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Maybe this is true of (many of) the members of the official Language Poetry movement, Richard, but certainly not of all who are doing what I call "language poetry." Sure didn't know any of them got MacArthurs. Better they than the super-conventional mediocrities who usually get MacArthur grants. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jul 19 12:59:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:59:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net><4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net><4E25B189.1020204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E25B7F1.1060906@nut-n-but.net> On 7/19/2011 10:29 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > You were talking about range. > range for singing Verdi. My over-all range for EVERYthing is, needless to say, far great than nine octaves. C-above-the-highest-possible-B-bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 11:53:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:53:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: What B-bob said about the MacArthurs. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/19/2011 10:06 AM, R Dillon wrote: > > Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. > > It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. > > No wit to it, just attitudes. > > Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce > Andrews apologized about being handsome. > > > He wasn't joking? > > > It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. > > Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical > medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. > > > > Maybe this is true of (many of) the members of the official Language Poetry > movement, Richard, but certainly not of all who are doing what I call > "language poetry." Sure didn't know any of them got MacArthurs. Better > they than the super-conventional mediocrities who usually get MacArthur > grants. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 11:54:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:54:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] scott h In-Reply-To: <4E25B7F1.1060906@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E2497DA.4020401@nut-n-but.net> <4E259B59.3090601@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B189.1020204@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B7F1.1060906@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Stop now. You're hurting my dogs' ears. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/19/2011 10:29 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > You were talking about range. > > > > range for singing Verdi. > > My over-all range for EVERYthing is, needless to say, far great than nine > octaves. > > C-above-the-highest-possible-B-bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Jul 19 12:54:38 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <32904005.1311094478266.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Jul 19 15:03:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho, oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com, > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311102231.59361.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> A MacArthur is worth a cool half million. Good pay for the mediocre. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 12:44:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein On 7/19/2011 10:06 AM, R Dillon wrote: Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >? >It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >? >No wit to it, just attitudes. >? >Language Poetry is built on a bizarre?guilt-trip, for instance,?Bruce >Andrews?apologized about being handsome. > He wasn't joking? ? >It?institutionalizes?anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >? >Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications?while >simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. > Maybe this is true of (many of) the members of the official Language Poetry movement, Richard, but certainly not of all who are doing what I call "language poetry."? Sure didn't know any of them got MacArthurs.? Better they than the super-conventional mediocrities who usually get MacArthur grants. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jul 19 17:15:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:15:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311102231.59361.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1310996860.65624.Yaho, oMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018569.81678.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com, > <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311102231.59361.YahooMailRC@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E25F3F1.4090201@nut-n-but.net> On 7/19/2011 2:03 PM, stephen russell wrote: > A MacArthur is worth a cool half million. Good pay for the mediocre. On reflection, I think maybe they deserve it: it's hard making sure not to do anything meaningful. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Tue Jul 19 16:19:09 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Patchen Message-ID: <1311106749.73560.YahooMailClassic@web45611.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Patchen did all kinds of vispo in the originals of his 1940s' books Albion Moonlight, Sleepers Awake, Dark Kingdom and Cloth of the tempest the first is easy to find in reprints the second is tough, the last two near impossible Cloth has incredible vispo. Then there are always the poem paintings three black and white ones from new directions and a full color version from Sierra Club in 1984. here are some of the paintings from 84 collection http://www.concentric.net/~lndb/patchen/patchclr.htm Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:32:00 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 00:32:00 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <32904005.1311094478266.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32904005.1311094478266.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude. Look up some of the citations, and I'll discuss them.Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. =============================================================================== Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. No wit to it, just attitudes. Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews apologized about being handsome. It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. No wit to it, just attitudes. Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews apologized about being handsome. It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Jul 19 20:43:43 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:43:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/19/2011 10:06 AM, R Dillon wrote: > > Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical > medications?while simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. > > > Maybe this is true of (many of) the members of the official Language Poetry > movement, Richard, but certainly not of all who are doing what I call > "language poetry."? Sure didn't know any of them got MacArthurs. Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? c From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jul 19 21:22:50 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?When I studied with him: ?Irving Feldman. ?He didn't like my style but was rather nice & provocative (in class), all the same. ?I recall seeing him walking through the neighborhood and wondering (I did), 'What's he gonna do with all that money?' ?This was Buffalo, where all is cheap, and while I was studying with Carl Dennis, Charles Bernstein and Susan Howe - all pre-MacArthurs.? Amy ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** ________________________________ From: Chris Lott? Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? c ________? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 23:34:53 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:34:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Simic for one. Here's the whole list. You can pick out the poets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:22 PM, amy king wrote: > > When I studied with him: Irving Feldman. He didn't like my style but was > rather nice & provocative (in class), all the same. I recall seeing him > walking through the neighborhood and wondering (I did), 'What's he gonna do > with all that money?' This was Buffalo, where all is cheap, and while I was > studying with Carl Dennis, Charles Bernstein and Susan Howe - all > pre-MacArthurs. > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Lott > Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though > it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants > would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? > > c > ________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 03:20:35 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:20:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday, Petrarch ! Message-ID: >From the Writer's Almanac: It's the birthday of Italian scholar and poet Francesco Petrarca, better known as *Petrarch * (books by this author), born in 1304 in Arezzo, Tuscany. As a teenager, he developed what he later called "an unquenchable thirst for literature," in spite of his father's insistence that he study law. He loved classical literature above all, and he was also a devout Catholic; he saw continuity in the ideals of the classics and the Bible, and managed to combine the best of both into one worldview. That's why he's considered the father of European humanism. When his father died in 1326, Petrarch left his law studies and went to Avignon, where he worked in clerical positions that allowed him time to work on his own writing. In 1341, Rome and Paris both wanted to crown him their poet laureate; with his love of the classics, Rome was really his only choice. He was crowned on April 8, on Capitoline Hill, the first poet laureate in a thousand years, and when the ceremony was done, he place his laurel wreath in St. Peter's Basilica, on the apostle's tomb. On April 6, 1327, in the Church of St. Clare in Avignon, he first saw a woman we know only as "Laura." We don't know why she rejected him, or if they even spoke at all, and we don't know anything about who she is. He revealed nothing about her, but wrote a series of poems about her over the course of 40 years, not in Latin but in everyday Italian. His unrequited love for her is central to the collection, but he was also pondering religion, poetry, and politics. Out of the 366 poems in the collection, 316 of them were in sonnet form, and he gave his name to that particular style of sonnet, which we now know as "Italian" or "Petrarchan." As a body of work, *Il Canzoniere*, or "The Songbook," as the collection is called, traces not only his feelings for her, but also the evolution of his own spiritual life and his renunciation of the world in favor of trust in God. The plague, known as the Black Death, claimed many of his friends in 1348. Laura was one of its victims. She died on April 6, 21 years to the day after he first saw her. Petrarch himself died in 1374, with his head resting on a manuscript by Virgil. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 05:13:15 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <24311409.1311153195638.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Wed Jul 20 08:29:33 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:29:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <24311409.1311153195638.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24311409.1311153195638.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. I put a set of specific critiques re Langpo out there. It might require that you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, apparently, you are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, because of the parasitical mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were an afficionado of that genre of schizoid literary pathology you'd not be perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd be angry at being insulted for having helped to fob off on the Norton's Anthology a dangerous hoax. Of course, who am I to be critical, but, at least, I, literally, probed their realm on both coasts by air and foot. Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to institutionalized narcissism. Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats circling the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you. Stick with Wallace Stevens and Dickinson. For me, one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic duo, Cloward-Piven, the traitorous unfunny tag-team that, along with Alinsky, formulated the Luciferian - - - - - - oh, why bother. You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, even, work out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. whatEVER! Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do research and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty arrogant. I am curious to know what connection you see between language poets (a pretty amorphous group at best) and social work. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude. Look up some of the citations, and I'll discuss them. Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. =============================================================================== Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. No wit to it, just attitudes. Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews apologized about being handsome. It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. No wit to it, just attitudes. Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews apologized about being handsome. It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 09:20:07 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I looked at this list yesterday. There were far more poets than noveliest. Perhaps because poetry is marginal, poets were considered more deserving, or more in need of support. ?Jorie Graham is the only poet on the list who might be considered a language poet. Lots of old school names: Mark Strand, Galway Kinell, Ammons, May Swenson, all?poets well situated within the acadamy. No outsiders. No visual poets, math poets, nothing terribly adventurous. Ashbery wasn't on the list,or I didn't see him. I would have nominated Denis Johnson, or an outsider (by standards of the acadamy). Maybe Chirot, or some of the names B Grumman mentions, though?I need see more of their work, study what they're doing. May Swenson was an interesting selection. Although she's mostly old school, she was very eccentric with her typography. In her own way, visually innovative. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 11:34:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Simic for one. Here's the whole list. You can pick out the poets.? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:22 PM, amy king wrote: > >?When I studied with him: ?Irving Feldman. ?He didn't like my style but was >rather nice & provocative (in class), all the same. ?I recall seeing him walking >through the neighborhood and wondering (I did), 'What's he gonna do with all >that money?' ?This was Buffalo, where all is cheap, and while I was studying >with Carl Dennis, Charles Bernstein and Susan Howe - all pre-MacArthurs.? > > >Amy > > >********* >VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts >+?Interviews > > >Amy's Alias >+?http://amyking.org/? >******** > > > ________________________________ From: Chris Lott? >Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though >it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants >would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? > >c >________? > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 20 10:40:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:40:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E26E8C5.6020106@nut-n-but.net> Ashbery quickly got an award. Jorie Graham is nowhere near being a language poet although some consider her and Ashbery language poets. There are several poets on the list I never heard of who may be language poets. May Swenson did visual poems, so I can't say that visual poetry got a full 100% although Swenson's visual poetry was a sideline for her. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 10:30:30 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Patchen In-Reply-To: <1311106749.73560.YahooMailClassic@web45611.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1311106749.73560.YahooMailClassic@web45611.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311172230.85179.YahooMailRC@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> excellent link. thanks for posting. Albion Moonlight is a one of a kind classic. ________________________________ From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 4:19:09 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Patchen Patchen did all kinds of vispo in the originals of his 1940s' books Albion Moonlight, Sleepers Awake, Dark Kingdom and Cloth of the tempest the first is easy to find in reprints the second is tough, the last two near impossible Cloth has incredible vispo. Then there are always the poem paintings three black and white ones from new directions and a full color version from Sierra Club in 1984. here are some of the paintings from 84 collection http://www.concentric.net/~lndb/patchen/patchclr.htm Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 20 11:42:27 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:42:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> I'd say that the more LANGUAGEy poets in the MacArthur list are Ann Lauterbach and C. D. Wright, though a few of the others sometimes get mentioned when people are swooshing their category-nets through the air. I found the list itself fascinating and telling. I can't comment on the pediatric hematologists or rehabilitation engineers there, but for the most part the people nominated in fields I have a bit of knowledge of are people of whom I'm inclined to say, well, I'm pretty glad he/she was able to put a few bucks in his/her pocket--a few bucks more than his/her current profession shells out for a year's work. That said, it's interesting that the list feels more broad-minded in its approach to musicians, dancers, and filmmakers, and even to fiction writers, than to poets. What I notice is that, besides their poetic output, the poets who were given these awards all look _great_ on paper--and I don't mean the paper their poems are written on. They all have a long history of academic degrees and teaching, grants, previous awards, publications in other fields, and/or some sort of public presence--just the kinds of things that might impress a (notoriously "shadowy") committee that doesn't really read a lot of poetry, or wish to be forced to do so. In other words, wherever the nomination comes from, there's a tendency to pick recipients who have been significantly validated by the (I pause here to chuckle) poetry-reading public. I've got to real gripe with that, though I dearly wish there were more awards lying around for people who write poetry "more or less exactly like the poetry Jerry McGuire writes." Alas. But if I were in it for the money . . . One other thing about the "shadowy" business. Wikipedia quotes from the MacArthur website that "the fellowship is not a reward for past accomplishment, but rather an investment in a person's originality, insight, and potential." It's interesting how much "potential" they see in the (mostly) geezers and geezras they've selected; clearly the quoted material is just a conditional for plausible deniability--_Oh, I'm sure no one likes this person now, but (really) s/he's got enormous potential._ But again, where poets getting a paycheck is concerned, no sour grapes. Jerry On 7/20/2011 8:20 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I looked at this list yesterday. There were far more poets than > noveliest. Perhaps because poetry is marginal, poets were considered > more deserving, or more in need of support. Jorie Graham is the only > poet on the list who might be considered a language poet. Lots of old > school names: Mark Strand, Galway Kinell, Ammons, May Swenson, > all poets well situated within the acadamy. No outsiders. No visual > poets, math poets, nothing terribly adventurous. Ashbery wasn't on the > list,or I didn't see him. > I would have nominated Denis Johnson, or an outsider (by standards of > the acadamy). Maybe Chirot, or some of the names B Grumman mentions, > though I need see more of their work, study what they're doing. > May Swenson was an interesting selection. Although she's mostly old > school, she was very eccentric with her typography. In her own way, > visually innovative. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Tue, July 19, 2011 11:34:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Simic for one. Here's the whole list. You can pick out the poets. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:22 PM, amy king > wrote: > > > When I studied with him: Irving Feldman. He didn't like my > style but was rather nice & provocative (in class), all the same. > I recall seeing him walking through the neighborhood and > wondering (I did), 'What's he gonna do with all that money?' This > was Buffalo, where all is cheap, and while I was studying with > Carl Dennis, Charles Bernstein and Susan Howe - all pre-MacArthurs. > > Amy > > ********* > VIDA: Women in Literary Arts > + Interviews > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Lott > Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though > it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants > would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? > > c > ________ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jul 20 13:01:35 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:01:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Simic for one. I'm a Simic fan, but was he ever not mainstream? Not that it matters, I enjoy his work. Even with Bob's taxonomy I'm not sure which is which and what is what and who is who, but suspect Simic would be BobBashed for being Wilshy-Walshy. c From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 13:18:23 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:18:23 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <26796471.1311182303627.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 13:38:04 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:38:04 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:14:19 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:14:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Ashbery's on the list--for 1985. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > ** > I'd say that the more LANGUAGEy poets in the MacArthur list are Ann > Lauterbach and C. D. Wright, though a few of the others sometimes get > mentioned when people are swooshing their category-nets through the air. I > found the list itself fascinating and telling. I can't comment on the > pediatric hematologists or rehabilitation engineers there, but for the most > part the people nominated in fields I have a bit of knowledge of are people > of whom I'm inclined to say, well, I'm pretty glad he/she was able to put a > few bucks in his/her pocket--a few bucks more than his/her current > profession shells out for a year's work. That said, it's interesting that > the list feels more broad-minded in its approach to musicians, dancers, and > filmmakers, and even to fiction writers, than to poets. What I notice is > that, besides their poetic output, the poets who were given these awards all > look _great_ on paper--and I don't mean the paper their poems are written > on. They all have a long history of academic degrees and teaching, grants, > previous awards, publications in other fields, and/or some sort of public > presence--just the kinds of things that might impress a (notoriously > "shadowy") committee that doesn't really read a lot of poetry, or wish to be > forced to do so. In other words, wherever the nomination comes from, there's > a tendency to pick recipients who have been significantly validated by the > (I pause here to chuckle) poetry-reading public. I've got to real gripe with > that, though I dearly wish there were more awards lying around for people > who write poetry "more or less exactly like the poetry Jerry McGuire > writes." Alas. But if I were in it for the money . . . > > One other thing about the "shadowy" business. Wikipedia quotes from the > MacArthur website that "the fellowship is not a reward for past > accomplishment, but rather an investment in a person's originality, insight, > and potential." It's interesting how much "potential" they see in the > (mostly) geezers and geezras they've selected; clearly the quoted material > is just a conditional for plausible deniability--_Oh, I'm sure no one likes > this person now, but (really) s/he's got enormous potential._ But again, > where poets getting a paycheck is concerned, no sour grapes. > > Jerry > > On 7/20/2011 8:20 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > I looked at this list yesterday. There were far more poets than > noveliest. Perhaps because poetry is marginal, poets were considered more > deserving, or more in need of support. Jorie Graham is the only poet on the > list who might be considered a language poet. Lots of old school names: Mark > Strand, Galway Kinell, Ammons, May Swenson, all poets well situated within > the acadamy. No outsiders. No visual poets, math poets, nothing terribly > adventurous. Ashbery wasn't on the list,or I didn't see him. > > I would have nominated Denis Johnson, or an outsider (by standards of the > acadamy). Maybe Chirot, or some of the names B Grumman mentions, though I > need see more of their work, study what they're doing. > > May Swenson was an interesting selection. Although she's mostly old school, > she was very eccentric with her typography. In her own way, visually > innovative. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Tue, July 19, 2011 11:34:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Simic for one. Here's the whole list. You can pick out the poets. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > *Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > *G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:22 PM, amy king wrote: > >> >> When I studied with him: Irving Feldman. He didn't like my style but >> was rather nice & provocative (in class), all the same. I recall seeing him >> walking through the neighborhood and wondering (I did), 'What's he gonna do >> with all that money?' This was Buffalo, where all is cheap, and while I was >> studying with Carl Dennis, Charles Bernstein and Susan Howe - all >> pre-MacArthurs. >> >> Amy >> >> ********* >> VIDA: Women in Literary Arts >> + Interviews >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Chris Lott >> Me either... the least mainstream (and that's stretching it, though >> it's no badge of distinction to me) poets to get MacArthur grants >> would be who? Ashbery? Heather McHugh? >> >> c >> ________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:37:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:37:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] untitled poems for a wednesday evening. by Peter Ganick Message-ID: Here is a different Peter Ganick, whose newest poems, resoundingly philosophical, metaphysical in their musicality, become more tangible, more directly shaped in a context more intellectually quotidian than that of previous work. Boundaries created for these Wednesday poems, appropriately titled for middle-of-the-week realities, allow humor, reflection, human feeling, to a greater degree than Ganick?s recent, prior poems. The mind within and beneath these pieces is infinitely shimmering, even as the poet?s signature sotto voce consistently asserts itself. The word evidence comes to mind as I experience surprise, delight, and full engagement in the life of Peter Ganick?s newest and very welcome volume. -Sheila E. Murphy http://www.lulu.com/product/16129401 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 14:53:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider that?a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is?rather didatic, boring. ?But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the poetics of?American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, obviously?not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce biography, though the?name, I think, is the same. ? ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much compassion. I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be decoded. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon >Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > >Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >? >I put?a set of specific critiques re Langpo?out there.? It might require that >you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, apparently, you >are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, because of the?parasitical >mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were an afficionado of that genre of >schizoid literary pathology you'd not be perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd >be angry at being insulted for having helped to?fob off on the Norton's >Anthology a dangerous?hoax.? Of course, who am I to be critical, but, at least, >I, literally, probed their realm on both coasts by air and foot.? > >? >Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to institutionalized >narcissism. >? >Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats circling >the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >? >Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you.? Stick with Wallace Stevens and >Dickinson. >? >For me,?one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic duo, >Cloward-Piven, the?traitorous unfunny?tag-team that, along with Alinsky, >formulated the Luciferian - - - >? >- - - oh, why bother.? You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >even,?work?out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >? >whatEVER! >? >? > > ________________________________ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >From: junction at earthlink.net >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > >They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do research >and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty arrogant. I >am curious to know what connection you see between language poets (a pretty >amorphous group at best) and social work. > >-----Original Message----- >>From: R Dillon >>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> >>Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude.? Look up some of the citations, and >>I'll discuss them. >>Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >>? >>=============================================================================== >>? >>? >>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >> >>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >> >>No wit to it, just attitudes. >> >>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews >>apologized about being handsome. >> >>It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >> >>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while >>simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >> >>? >> >>? >> >> ________________________________ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >>From: junction at earthlink.net >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >>I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: R Dillon >>>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> >>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>>? >>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>>? >>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>>? >>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre?guilt-trip, for instance,?Bruce >>>Andrews?apologized about being handsome. >>>? >>>It?institutionalizes?anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>>? >>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications?while >>>simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. >>>? >>> >>> ________________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >>>From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>>Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by >>>my standards, a language poet.? Unless he's a non-representational poet, which >>>is different.? Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; >>>non-representational poetry doesn't.? Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ? >>>heg? geh Aaa," say.? In my taxonomy.? But i haven't yet defined language poetry >>>or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:55:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:55:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider > that a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry > anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry > interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. > And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is rather > didatic, boring. But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day > East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The > poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I > haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of > their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the > poetics of American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do > with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. > Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. > > I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, > obviously not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce > biography, though the name, I think, is the same. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a > couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. > Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies > of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient > Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use > them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. > > Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. > Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. > > My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a > while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read > in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked > Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. > > Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much > compassion. > > I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language > poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most > were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't > particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat > to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be > decoded. > > Best, > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: R Dillon > Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. > > I put a set of specific critiques re Langpo out there. It might require > that you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, > apparently, you are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, > because of the parasitical mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were > an afficionado of that genre of schizoid literary pathology you'd not be > perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd be angry at being insulted for having > helped to fob off on the Norton's Anthology a dangerous hoax. Of course, > who am I to be critical, but, at least, I, literally, probed their realm on > both coasts by air and foot. > > Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to > institutionalized narcissism. > > Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats > circling the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? > > Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you. Stick with Wallace Stevens and > Dickinson. > > For me, one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic > duo, Cloward-Piven, the traitorous unfunny tag-team that, along with > Alinsky, formulated the Luciferian - - - > > - - - oh, why bother. You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, > even, work out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. > > whatEVER! > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do > research and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty > arrogant. I am curious to know what connection you see between language > poets (a pretty amorphous group at best) and social work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude. Look up some of the > citations, and I'll discuss them. > Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. > > > =============================================================================== > > > Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. > > It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. > > No wit to it, just attitudes. > > Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce > Andrews apologized about being handsome. > > It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. > > Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications > while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 > From: junction at earthlink.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. > > It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. > > No wit to it, just attitudes. > > Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce > Andrews apologized about being handsome. > > It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. > > Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical > medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Well, I checked what Bernstein has in *The American Tree* and found that > he *is*, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a > non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately > makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. > Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my > taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational > poetry to my satisfaction. > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 14:59:23 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311188363.66001.YahooMailRC@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> correction: entirely ignorant. i live in d.c. everyone does double talk, covering their tracks ... ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 2:55:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, stephen russell wrote: ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider that?a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is?rather didatic, boring. ?But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the poetics of?American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. > >I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, >obviously?not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce >biography, though the?name, I think, is the same. ? > > > > ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > >For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a >couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. Left >liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies of the >time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient Egypt. >Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use them as a >club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. > > >Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. Could >be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. > >My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a while >and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read in Social >Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked Nickel and Dimed >you'll love Elman's book. > >Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much compassion. > >I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language >poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most were >far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't >particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat to >any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be decoded. > >Best, > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: R Dillon >>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> >>Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >>? >>I put?a set of specific critiques re Langpo?out there.? It might require that >>you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, apparently, you >>are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, because of the?parasitical >>mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were an afficionado of that genre of >>schizoid literary pathology you'd not be perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd >>be angry at being insulted for having helped to?fob off on the Norton's >>Anthology a dangerous?hoax.? Of course, who am I to be critical, but, at least, >>I, literally, probed their realm on both coasts by air and foot.? >> >>? >>Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to institutionalized >>narcissism. >>? >>Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats circling >>the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >>? >>Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you.? Stick with Wallace Stevens and >>Dickinson. >>? >>For me,?one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic duo, >>Cloward-Piven, the?traitorous unfunny?tag-team that, along with Alinsky, >>formulated the Luciferian - - - >>? >>- - - oh, why bother.? You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >>even,?work?out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >>? >>whatEVER! >>? >>? >> >> ________________________________ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >>From: junction at earthlink.net >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >>They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do research >>and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty arrogant. I >>am curious to know what connection you see between language poets (a pretty >>amorphous group at best) and social work. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: R Dillon >>>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> >>>Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude.? Look up some of the citations, and >>>I'll discuss them. >>>Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >>>? >>>=============================================================================== > >>>? >>>? >>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>> >>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>> >>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>> >>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews >>>apologized about being handsome. >>> >>>It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>> >>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while >>>simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >>> >>>? >>> >>>? >>> >>> ________________________________ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >>>From: junction at earthlink.net >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>>I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: R Dillon >>>>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>> >>>> >>>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>>>? >>>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>>>? >>>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>>>? >>>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre?guilt-trip, for instance,?Bruce >>>>Andrews?apologized about being handsome. >>>>? >>>>It?institutionalizes?anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>>>? >>>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications?while >>>>simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. >>>>? >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >>>>From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>> >>>>Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by >>>>my standards, a language poet.? Unless he's a non-representational poet, which >>>>is different.? Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; >>>>non-representational poetry doesn't.? Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ? >>>>heg? geh Aaa," say.? In my taxonomy.? But i haven't yet defined language poetry >>>>or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 15:01:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:01:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311188363.66001.YahooMailRC@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311188363.66001.YahooMailRC@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I lived in DC once, but "mostly ignorant" is the phrase I like. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:59 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > correction: entirely ignorant. i live in d.c. everyone does double talk, > covering their tracks ... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 2:55:00 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider >> that a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry >> anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry >> interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. >> And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is rather >> didatic, boring. But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day >> East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The >> poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I >> haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of >> their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the >> poetics of American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do >> with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. >> Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. >> >> I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, >> obviously not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce >> biography, though the name, I think, is the same. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a >> couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. >> Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies >> of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient >> Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use >> them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. >> >> Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. >> Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. >> >> My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a >> while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read >> in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked >> Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. >> >> Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much >> compassion. >> >> I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language >> poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most >> were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't >> particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat >> to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be >> decoded. >> >> Best, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: R Dillon >> Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >> >> I put a set of specific critiques re Langpo out there. It might require >> that you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, >> apparently, you are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, >> because of the parasitical mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were >> an afficionado of that genre of schizoid literary pathology you'd not be >> perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd be angry at being insulted for having >> helped to fob off on the Norton's Anthology a dangerous hoax. Of course, >> who am I to be critical, but, at least, I, literally, probed their realm on >> both coasts by air and foot. >> >> Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to >> institutionalized narcissism. >> >> Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats >> circling the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >> >> Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you. Stick with Wallace Stevens and >> Dickinson. >> >> For me, one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic >> duo, Cloward-Piven, the traitorous unfunny tag-team that, along with >> Alinsky, formulated the Luciferian - - - >> >> - - - oh, why bother. You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >> even, work out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >> >> whatEVER! >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >> From: junction at earthlink.net >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do >> research and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty >> arrogant. I am curious to know what connection you see between language >> poets (a pretty amorphous group at best) and social work. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: R Dillon >> Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude. Look up some of the >> citations, and I'll discuss them. >> Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >> >> >> =============================================================================== >> >> >> Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >> >> It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >> >> No wit to it, just attitudes. >> >> Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce >> Andrews apologized about being handsome. >> >> It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >> >> Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications >> while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >> From: junction at earthlink.net >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: R Dillon >> Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >> >> It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >> >> No wit to it, just attitudes. >> >> Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce >> Andrews apologized about being handsome. >> >> It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >> >> Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical >> medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >> From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> Well, I checked what Bernstein has in *The American Tree* and found that >> he *is*, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a >> non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately >> makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. >> Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my >> taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational >> poetry to my satisfaction. >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 14:57:55 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311188275.43259.YahooMailRC@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> there may be a few activist poets. Wendell Berry is one. But, he, too, is Wishly/Washly ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 2:53:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider that?a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is?rather didatic, boring. ?But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the poetics of?American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, obviously?not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce biography, though the?name, I think, is the same. ? ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much compassion. I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be decoded. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon >Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > >Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >? >I put?a set of specific critiques re Langpo?out there.? It might require that >you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, apparently, you >are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, because of the?parasitical >mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were an afficionado of that genre of >schizoid literary pathology you'd not be perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd >be angry at being insulted for having helped to?fob off on the Norton's >Anthology a dangerous?hoax.? Of course, who am I to be critical, but, at least, >I, literally, probed their realm on both coasts by air and foot.? > >? >Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to institutionalized >narcissism. >? >Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats circling >the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >? >Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you.? Stick with Wallace Stevens and >Dickinson. >? >For me,?one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic duo, >Cloward-Piven, the?traitorous unfunny?tag-team that, along with Alinsky, >formulated the Luciferian - - - >? >- - - oh, why bother.? You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >even,?work?out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >? >whatEVER! >? >? > > ________________________________ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >From: junction at earthlink.net >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > >They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do research >and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty arrogant. I >am curious to know what connection you see between language poets (a pretty >amorphous group at best) and social work. > >-----Original Message----- >>From: R Dillon >>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> >>Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude.? Look up some of the citations, and >>I'll discuss them. >>Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >>? >>=============================================================================== >>? >>? >>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >> >>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >> >>No wit to it, just attitudes. >> >>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews >>apologized about being handsome. >> >>It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >> >>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while >>simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >> >>? >> >>? >> >> ________________________________ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >>From: junction at earthlink.net >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >>I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: R Dillon >>>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> >>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>>? >>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>>? >>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>>? >>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre?guilt-trip, for instance,?Bruce >>>Andrews?apologized about being handsome. >>>? >>>It?institutionalizes?anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>>? >>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications?while >>>simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. >>>? >>> >>> ________________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >>>From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>>Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by >>>my standards, a language poet.? Unless he's a non-representational poet, which >>>is different.? Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; >>>non-representational poetry doesn't.? Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ? >>>heg? geh Aaa," say.? In my taxonomy.? But i haven't yet defined language poetry >>>or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 15:03:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311188363.66001.YahooMailRC@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311188596.73387.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "a little pregnant." ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 3:01:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein I lived in DC once, but "mostly ignorant" is the phrase I like. ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:59 PM, stephen russell wrote: correction: entirely ignorant. i live in d.c. everyone does double talk, covering their tracks ... > > > > ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson > >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 2:55:00 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > >"Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. > >?? ? > > >"Literature is news that stays news." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, stephen russell >wrote: > >... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider that?a >weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry anthologies >(an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry interesting >because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. And he may be >right since much American poetry that goes political is?rather didatic, boring. >?But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day East European poetry, or >Latin American poetry. All very political. The poets feel the burden of history >and a need to be engaged with politics. I haven't included poets from other >regions because I'm mostly ignorant of their work, but I'd be suprised if their >poetics were as apolitical as the poetics of?American poets. This lack of >engagement may have something to do with why American poetry is so marginal. In >the 60s, this wasn't the case. Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. > >> >>I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, >>obviously?not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce >>biography, though the?name, I think, is the same. ? >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM >> >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> >>For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a >>couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. Left >>liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies of the >>time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient Egypt. >>Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use them as a >>club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. >> >> >>Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. Could >>be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. >> >>My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a while >>and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read in Social >>Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked Nickel and Dimed >>you'll love Elman's book. >> >>Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much compassion. >> >>I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language >>poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most were >>far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't >>particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat to >>any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be decoded. >> >>Best, >> >>Mark >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: R Dillon >>>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> >>>Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >>>? >>>I put?a set of specific critiques re Langpo?out there.? It might require that >>>you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, apparently, you >>>are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, because of the?parasitical >>>mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were an afficionado of that genre of >>>schizoid literary pathology you'd not be perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd >>>be angry at being insulted for having helped to?fob off on the Norton's >>>Anthology a dangerous?hoax.? Of course, who am I to be critical, but, at least, >>>I, literally, probed their realm on both coasts by air and foot.? >>> >>>? >>>Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to institutionalized >>>narcissism. >>>? >>>Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats circling >>>the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >>>? >>>Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you.? Stick with Wallace Stevens and >>>Dickinson. >>>? >>>For me,?one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic duo, >>>Cloward-Piven, the?traitorous unfunny?tag-team that, along with Alinsky, >>>formulated the Luciferian - - - >>>? >>>- - - oh, why bother.? You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >>>even,?work?out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >>>? >>>whatEVER! >>>? >>>? >>> >>> ________________________________ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >>>From: junction at earthlink.net >>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>>They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do research >>>and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty arrogant. I >>>am curious to know what connection you see between language poets (a pretty >>>amorphous group at best) and social work. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: R Dillon >>>>Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>> >>>> >>>>Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude.? Look up some of the citations, and >>>>I'll discuss them. >>>>Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >>>>? >>>>=============================================================================== >> >>>>? >>>>? >>>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>>> >>>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>>> >>>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>>> >>>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce Andrews >>>>apologized about being handsome. >>>> >>>>It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>>> >>>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications while >>>>simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >>>> >>>>? >>>> >>>>? >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >>>>From: junction at earthlink.net >>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>> >>>>I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: R Dillon >>>>>Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >>>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>>>>? >>>>>It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>>>>? >>>>>No wit to it, just attitudes. >>>>>? >>>>>Language Poetry is built on a bizarre?guilt-trip, for instance,?Bruce >>>>>Andrews?apologized about being handsome. >>>>>? >>>>>It?institutionalizes?anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>>>>? >>>>>Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications?while >>>>>simultaneously?getting MacArthur Grants. >>>>>? >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >>>>>From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >>>>>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>>>> >>>>>Well, I checked what Bernstein has in The American Tree and found that he is, by >>>>>my standards, a language poet.? Unless he's a non-representational poet, which >>>>>is different.? Language poetry ultimately makes semantic sense, I believe; >>>>>non-representational poetry doesn't.? Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ? >>>>>heg? geh Aaa," say.? In my taxonomy.? But i haven't yet defined language poetry >>>>>or non-representational poetry to my satisfaction. >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 15:10:56 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:10:56 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <31460870.1311189056698.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 15:14:30 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:14:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1311188596.73387.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311188363.66001.YahooMailRC@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311188596.73387.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Stop smoking and watch your weight. Think of the child. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:03 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > "a little pregnant." > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Halvard Johnson > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 3:01:27 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > I lived in DC once, but "mostly ignorant" is the phrase I like. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:59 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> correction: entirely ignorant. i live in d.c. everyone does double talk, >> covering their tracks ... >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Halvard Johnson >> >> *To:* NewPoetry List >> *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 2:55:00 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >> >> "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, stephen russell < >> poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> ... politics & poetry rarely intersect in American poetry. I consider >>> that a weakness. Ashbery, in his intro to one the Best of American poetry >>> anthologies (an 80s volume), said that he rarely found much political poetry >>> interesting because it preached to the choir. I'm paraphrasing, of course. >>> And he may be right since much American poetry that goes political is rather >>> didatic, boring. But look at European poetry since WW11, or present day >>> East European poetry, or Latin American poetry. All very political. The >>> poets feel the burden of history and a need to be engaged with politics. I >>> haven't included poets from other regions because I'm mostly ignorant of >>> their work, but I'd be suprised if their poetics were as apolitical as the >>> poetics of American poets. This lack of engagement may have something to do >>> with why American poetry is so marginal. In the 60s, this wasn't the case. >>> Ginsberg, after all, filled stadiums. >>> >>> I haven't read Nickel and Dimed. I'd like to read it. Richard Elman, >>> obviously not to be confused with the author who wrote the James Joyce >>> biography, though the name, I think, is the same. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* "junction at earthlink.net" >>> *To:* NewPoetry List >>> *Sent:* Wed, July 20, 2011 1:38:04 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote >>> a couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. >>> Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies >>> of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient >>> Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use >>> them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. >>> >>> Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. >>> Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. >>> >>> My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for >>> a while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be >>> read in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you >>> liked Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. >>> >>> Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much >>> compassion. >>> >>> I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language >>> poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most >>> were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't >>> particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat >>> to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be >>> decoded. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: R Dillon >>> Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. >>> >>> I put a set of specific critiques re Langpo out there. It might require >>> that you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, >>> apparently, you are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, >>> because of the parasitical mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were >>> an afficionado of that genre of schizoid literary pathology you'd not be >>> perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd be angry at being insulted for having >>> helped to fob off on the Norton's Anthology a dangerous hoax. Of course, >>> who am I to be critical, but, at least, I, literally, probed their realm on >>> both coasts by air and foot. >>> >>> Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to >>> institutionalized narcissism. >>> >>> Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats >>> circling the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? >>> >>> Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you. Stick with Wallace Stevens and >>> Dickinson. >>> >>> For me, one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic >>> duo, Cloward-Piven, the traitorous unfunny tag-team that, along with >>> Alinsky, formulated the Luciferian - - - >>> >>> - - - oh, why bother. You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, >>> even, work out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. >>> >>> whatEVER! >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:13:15 +0100 >>> From: junction at earthlink.net >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> They're your statements, dude, and clarity is your responsibility. "Do >>> research and then we'll talk" is a pretty silly expectation, and also pretty >>> arrogant. I am curious to know what connection you see between language >>> poets (a pretty amorphous group at best) and social work. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: R Dillon >>> Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:32 AM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> Each sentence is a separate paragraph, Dude. Look up some of the >>> citations, and I'll discuss them. >>> Otherwise, well, there's lots of posts out there to dis. >>> >>> >>> =============================================================================== >>> >>> >>> Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>> >>> It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>> >>> No wit to it, just attitudes. >>> >>> Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce >>> Andrews apologized about being handsome. >>> >>> It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>> >>> Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical medications >>> while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:54:38 +0100 >>> From: junction at earthlink.net >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> I know it's hard, Richard, but try to be coherent. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: R Dillon >>> Sent: Jul 19, 2011 4:06 PM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> Language Poetry is the poetry of Cloward-Piven. >>> >>> It is the poetry of a mob marching through American institutions. >>> >>> No wit to it, just attitudes. >>> >>> Language Poetry is built on a bizarre guilt-trip, for instance, Bruce >>> Andrews apologized about being handsome. >>> >>> It institutionalizes anti-Homeric dweebishness at the U of P. >>> >>> Rimbaud wannabes who derange their senses with pharmaceutical >>> medications while simultaneously getting MacArthur Grants. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:12:20 -0500 >>> From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein >>> >>> Well, I checked what Bernstein has in *The American Tree* and found that >>> he *is*, by my standards, a language poet. Unless he's a >>> non-representational poet, which is different. Language poetry ultimately >>> makes semantic sense, I believe; non-representational poetry doesn't. >>> Gibberish acting as design elements--"zzZ heg geh Aaa," say. In my >>> taxonomy. But i haven't yet defined language poetry or non-representational >>> poetry to my satisfaction. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 15:15:11 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 15:15:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thank you for this, Mark. I had no idea who Cloward & Piven were, so their names in the discussion really confused me. I'll second *Nickle and Dimed*, an important book, I'd argue. Anyone who would dismiss Ehrenreich clearly hasn't read or attempted to understand her. She's also got a great book called *This Land is Their Land: Reports from a Divided Nation*, a humorous and skewering book of essays about the gap between the haves and have-nots in the US. I like her because she's not afraid of telling the truth about the right's favorite idol, Ronald Reagan. Best, Jeff Newberry On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:38 PM, wrote: > For those who don't remember, Cloward and Piven (husband and wife) wrote a > couple of books in the 70s that were widely used in Social Work schools. > Left liberals themselves, they were highly critical of the welfare policies > of the time, which are now about as relevant as labor standards in ancient > Egypt. Recently someone on the far right discovered them and decided to use > them as a club to beat up liberals with, to almost universal confusion. > > Social workers (I was one for a lot of years) tend to be left of center. > Could be because we deal with the misery of the powerless every day. > > My late friend the novelist and poet Richard Elman worked with C & P for a > while and produced The Poorhouse State (non-fiction), which used to be read > in Social Work school. It's a masterpiece, pure and simple. If you liked > Nickel and Dimed you'll love Elman's book. > > Don't read it, Richard. It would give you apoplexy--way too much > compassion. > > I still don't know what these obsolete textbooks have to do with Language > poetry. Of the members of the original group who were openly political most > were far more Marxist than the rather Fabian C & P. But most of them weren't > particularly political. And those who were don't constitute much of a threat > to any system--hard to go to the barricades with placards that need to be > decoded. > > Best, > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: R Dillon ** > Sent: Jul 20, 2011 1:29 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > ** ** ** ** > Arrogance has never been in short supply on the poetry lines. > > I put a set of specific critiques re Langpo out there. It might require > that you become very much more familiar with that ilk of poetry than, > apparently, you are (which, actually, for you, might be a good thing, > because of the parasitical mind virus nature of Langp), because if you were > an afficionado of that genre of schizoid literary pathology you'd not be > perturbed that I seem arrogant, you'd be angry at being insulted for having > helped to fob off on the Norton's Anthology a dangerous hoax. Of course, > who am I to be critical, but, at least, I, literally, probed their realm on > both coasts by air and foot. > > Go on, go around in circles with people who are committed to > institutionalized narcissism. > > Is it a private language, meeting Wittgenstein's riddle, when the gnats > circling the swamp call each other a Thunderbird? > > Absolute waste of time, I'm telling you. Stick with Wallace Stevens and > Dickinson. > > For me, one key thing is that LangPo advances the agenda of the dynamic > duo, Cloward-Piven, the traitorous unfunny tag-team that, along with > Alinsky, formulated the Luciferian - - - > > - - - oh, why bother. You more'n'likely agree with them, or, maybe, > even, work out one of their offshoots, like JKSDP. > > whatEVER! > > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 15:19:23 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:19:23 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <6006989.1311189563282.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 16:53:14 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:53:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] political poetry in US Message-ID: compared with the navel gazing of the confessional poets, langpo is so political! there's a lot of political beat poetry! actually, too, there's a lot of political flarf. more recently, factory school has been publishing a series of books of political poetry (I have one out through them). I haven't read any that are didactic in the heretical texts series. the reason factory school is named factory school is the example of the modern school (ferrar school) in NY. so to consider political poetry in the US, start looking, and see the long history. is (pp) outside "official verse culture"? it wasn't in the time of Lindsay, Kreymborg... Sanger, Goldman, Ridge and the little magazines..., but perhaps it outside now, while on the other hand the tradition continues because after all poetry has content All best, C From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 20 18:27:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:27:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> On 7/20/2011 10:42 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I'd say that the more LANGUAGEy poets in the MacArthur list are Ann > Lauterbach and C. D. Wright I'm gonna jump on you for this, Jerry--because I don't think you'll take offense, and because you might say something back that ain't dumb. What's "languagey" about Lauterback or C. D. Wright's work? I'm not baiting you or New-Poetry. I've have trouble pinning down what language poetry is, or should be, since my (belated) first exposure to it around 1980. I've long since decided the jump-cut poetry I think many poets have been doing since "The Wasteland" is in any sense, "language" poetry. Vaguely, I think of a language poem as something that makes you consider the poetic effect of the non-prose, or unconventional, punctuation, spelling, grammar of something in a text. Cummings, for instance, when he writes, "What if a much of a which of a wind," or Gertrude Stein when she wrote "rose is a rose is a rose." Each forcing a reader to consider what grammar is and does--more than a poet using a noun as a verb as Dylan Thomas beautifully does, say. Language-centering versus language-heightening. To say a start to what I hope someday about language poetry. > , though a few of the others sometimes get mentioned when people are > swooshing their category-nets through the air. I found the list itself > fascinating and telling. I can't comment on the pediatric > hematologists or rehabilitation engineers there, but for the most part > the people nominated in fields I have a bit of knowledge of are people > of whom I'm inclined to say, well, I'm pretty glad he/she was able to > put a few bucks in his/her pocket--a few bucks more than his/her > current profession shells out for a year's work. That said, it's > interesting that the list feels more broad-minded in its approach to > musicians, dancers, and filmmakers, and even to fiction writers, than > to poets. What I notice is that, besides their poetic output, the > poets who were given these awards all look _great_ on paper--and I > don't mean the paper their poems are written on. They all have a long > history of academic degrees and teaching, grants, previous awards, > publications in other fields, and/or some sort of public > presence--just the kinds of things that might impress a (notoriously > "shadowy") committee that doesn't really read a lot of poetry, or wish > to be forced to do so. In other words, wherever the nomination comes > from, there's a tendency to pick recipients who have been > significantly validated by the (I pause here to chuckle) > poetry-reading public. I often wonder who the real certifiers are. So many of these grant foundations just copy each other. I sincerely don't know of any that's discovered someone in any field I feel I know anything about. I'll bet Harvard grads have more MacArthur grants than any other school's. Two of my three favorite pre-1960 American poets went to Harvard. But none of my hundred favorite post-1960 poets did. I don't know why this is. Some poets who were unknowns /have/ won MacArthur grants. But none have gone on to any mainstream fame that I know of. > I've got no real gripe with that, though I dearly wish there were more > awards lying around for people who write poetry "more or less exactly > like the poetry Jerry McGuire writes." Alas. But if I were in it for > the money . . . > I do have a gripe with it, especially as the MacArthur Foundation initially said so much about recognizing the unrecognized. I don't just "wish there were more awards lying around for people who" compose work similar to mine, but that there were awards for /anyone/ besides the poets of Wilshberia. > One other thing about the "shadowy" business. Wikipedia quotes from > the MacArthur website that "the fellowship is not a reward for past > accomplishment, but rather an investment in a person's originality, > insight, and potential." It's interesting how much "potential" they > see in the (mostly) geezers and geezras they've selected; clearly the > quoted material is just a conditional for plausible deniability--_Oh, > I'm sure no one likes this person now, but (really) s/he's got > enormous potential._ But again, where poets getting a paycheck is > concerned, no sour grapes. > I'd love one to read a defense of his practice by own of the awarders, even if anonymously. I'd rather no poet got a paycheck if only conventional poets do because I think it's bad for the morale of better poets, and it is too strong an ad for conventionality. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 20 18:32:58 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:32:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> On 7/20/2011 12:01 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Simic for one. > I'm a Simic fan, but was he ever not mainstream? Not that it matters, > I enjoy his work. > > Even with Bob's taxonomy I'm not sure which is which and what is what > and who is who, but suspect Simic would be BobBashed for being > Wilshy-Walshy. Why do you keep saying things like that, Chris? I find nothing wrong with a poet's being Wilshy-Ashy. What's wrong is giving money to no poets but those who are that. I've read Simic, and have to say I'm indifferent to his poetry. But there are many Wilshberian poets whose work I like, starting with Wilbur's. And continuing with many who have posted poems here. Even that fellow who keeps calling visual poems rebuses. --Bob From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 17:28:55 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:28:55 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: spell the surnames correctly, please. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 20 18:50:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:50:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.b f1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E275BB4.6040808@nut-n-but.net> On 7/20/2011 1:55 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. Aah, he stole it from me. Aside: when I wrote "stole," I wondered when that will be written "stealed," the way "shone" is now sometimes writed "shined" and a lot of other past-tense words have /d's/ forced on them. Dived for dove. The continuing decoloring regimentation of the language. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 20 18:57:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:57:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E275D65.8040106@nut-n-but.net> On 7/20/2011 4:28 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > spell the surnames correctly, please. Indicate what you're responding to, please. From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Jul 20 18:23:51 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:23:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> Well, Bob, I did (intentionally) say LANGUAGEy rather than L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E or even "language." I doubt I have a better way of clarifying what (mostly self-identified) poets associated with the term do than you do, and that doesn't bother me. I'm happy (in L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E , LANGUAGE, "language," or even language) to use my definitions stipulatively, as part of what we do when we talk about things--but without over-investing, which usually backfires or turns into spitting-and-gouging adventures. For me, LANGUAGE poets/poetry invokes the avant-garde of the seventies to nineties (I'm being approximate because I can't be specific), coincident and intergraded with linguistic-based academic theorizing of the same moment, not at all accidentally. So even though Frost (for instance) perfectly well understood the problem of identifying signifiers either with signifieds or things signified (note his "grazing closeness to the spiritual realities," and his comments about Keats's eccentric usage), and even though every poet who's ever interested me (certainly including all the ones you mention) has played sparingly or wildly with linguistic phenomena that high theory addressed as if it were happening for the first time, or at least as if they had discovered it, still, they don't get to be called LANGUAGE poets because they didn't persistently repudiate (and detach their practice from) opportunities for (naive?) signification. Those modernists who played most vigorously--Stein, Cummings, sometimes the Objectivists, sometimes various Surrealists--get to be called "precursors," as Nietzsche gets to be called a precursor by hacks who couldn't carry his umbrella. And of course, Shakespeare remains, as a friend once said, the Fissure King. I guess (I'm sorry it's taking me so long to think this out) that for me, the LANGUAGE and LANGUAGEy poets are those most invested in the stressed placed on signification by the post-Saussurian theorizing of the late sixties through the (what?) nineties. And like any other school or movement, it produces better and worse engagements with the world--distinctive, in their way, because their theorizing tends to problematize both their phenomenological and their linguistic interactions with that world. As to Lauterbach and Wright, it seems to me that they've engaged pretty self-consciously with the problematics of signification (Wright as an editor as well as a writer). Wright has also taken a special interest in the significatory dispositions of mapping--a belated extension of the post-Saussurian moment. I think they're more attuned to some of the issues pressed by Bernstein, Howe, McCaffery, Hejinian,etc. than are Bob Hass, Jorie Graham, John Hollander, May Swenson, and most of the others I saw on the list. If you don't like calling them LANGUAGE poets, or even LANGUAGEy, I of course lack any investment in the matter whatever. Part of committing to stipulative definitions is the reward of not breaking down in tears if someone else can't or won't buy in. I am interested (as a specimen-collector) in the idea(s) behind your "I'd rather no poet got a paycheck if only conventional poets do because I think it's bad for the morale of better poets." I don't think that "conventional" means bad, or even worse. (That I _definitely_ don't care about the morale of poets, period, probably has contaminated my thinking here, though.) Lots of kinds of great poetry for thousands of years have depended on and/or exploited (while often subverting, parodying, revising, etc.) all sorts of conventions--but why am I even telling you this? Every poet knows it. If you're talking exclusively about the several generations kicked into high gear by Pound's determination to "Make it new," I can understand what you're saying, I think--though I don't see why the characters handing out half-a-mil per poet necessarily should be limited by that perspective. Would I like to see more poets (and more kinds of poets) get more money and respect? You bet (because I'd like to see _everyone_ get more money and respect, if they don't have enough of either now). I can't get weepy, though, if a secretive club of monied do-gooders exhibit a narrow view of what's worth rewarding. It doesn't really make a lot of sense, politically, to think that such a bunch is likely to fund any avant-garde whatsoever (which is one way to identify the players in the perpetual game of I'm-More-Radical-Than-You). If the MacArthur Foundation is doling out their goodies to their school chums of fifty or sixty (or seventy) years ago, that's slimy enough for anyone, I'm sure, but it's not much different from what 90 per cent of poetry "contests" do every year. They're just richer, that's all. I'm sure I haven't got to the heart of this stuff. In any case, best wishes, as ever-- Jerry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 19:18:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E275BB4.6040808@nut-n-but.net> References: <24360082.1311183484818.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><1311187989.16436.YahooMailRC@web161911.mail.b f1.yahoo.com> <4E275BB4.6040808@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311203904.17295.YahooMailRC@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the naive are not bereft of colorful phrases: my ignorantness has delighted many. ?Related forms ig?no?rant?ly, adverb ig?no?rant?ness, noun non?ig?no?rant, adjective non?ig?no?rant?ly, adverb qua?si-ig?no?rant, adjective ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 6:50:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein On 7/20/2011 1:55 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: "Mostly ignorant"--a lovely phrase. > Aah, he stole it from me. Aside: when I wrote "stole," I wondered when that will be written "stealed," the way "shone" is now sometimes writed "shined" and a lot of other past-tense words have d's forced on them. Dived for dove. The continuing decoloring regimentation of the language. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 20 21:37:57 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:37:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books without Borders Message-ID: <8CE155DF42056D9-19D4-FA3C@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303661904576455913644424424.html ANN ARBOR, Mich. ? The fall of the nation's second-largest bookstore chain surprised few inside Store No. 1. That's what Borders Group Inc. called its 42,000-square-foot flagship outpost on the corner of Maynard and Liberty streets before the company announced its plans Monday to liquidate and close all of its 399 stores. In the late afternoon when Borders' death became official, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 22:57:18 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:57:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E275D65.8040106@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E275D65.8040106@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: thanx dudes... On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/20/2011 4:28 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: >> >> spell the surnames correctly, please. > > Indicate what you're responding to, please. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 02:01:29 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 08:01:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Very interesting, Jerry, if and whenever you wish to add to the topic, I can't but thank you. On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > ** > Well, Bob, I did (intentionally) say LANGUAGEy rather than L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E > or even "language." I doubt I have a better way of clarifying what (mostly > self-identified) poets associated with the term do than you do, and that > doesn't bother me. I'm happy (in L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E , LANGUAGE, "language," > or even language) to use my definitions stipulatively, as part of what we do > when we talk about things--but without over-investing, which usually > backfires or turns into spitting-and-gouging adventures. For me, LANGUAGE > poets/poetry invokes the avant-garde of the seventies to nineties (I'm being > approximate because I can't be specific), coincident and intergraded with > linguistic-based academic theorizing of the same moment, not at all > accidentally. So even though Frost (for instance) perfectly well understood > the problem of identifying signifiers either with signifieds or things > signified (note his "grazing closeness to the spiritual realities," and his > comments about Keats's eccentric usage), and even though every poet who's > ever interested me (certainly including all the ones you mention) has played > sparingly or wildly with linguistic phenomena that high theory addressed as > if it were happening for the first time, or at least as if they had > discovered it, still, they don't get to be called LANGUAGE poets because > they didn't persistently repudiate (and detach their practice from) > opportunities for (naive?) signification. Those modernists who played most > vigorously--Stein, Cummings, sometimes the Objectivists, sometimes various > Surrealists--get to be called "precursors," as Nietzsche gets to be called a > precursor by hacks who couldn't carry his umbrella. And of course, > Shakespeare remains, as a friend once said, the Fissure King. I guess (I'm > sorry it's taking me so long to think this out) that for me, the LANGUAGE > and LANGUAGEy poets are those most invested in the stressed placed on > signification by the post-Saussurian theorizing of the late sixties through > the (what?) nineties. And like any other school or movement, it produces > better and worse engagements with the world--distinctive, in their way, > because their theorizing tends to problematize both their phenomenological > and their linguistic interactions with that world. As to Lauterbach and > Wright, it seems to me that they've engaged pretty self-consciously with the > problematics of signification (Wright as an editor as well as a writer). > Wright has also taken a special interest in the significatory dispositions > of mapping--a belated extension of the post-Saussurian moment. I think > they're more attuned to some of the issues pressed by Bernstein, Howe, > McCaffery, Hejinian,etc. than are Bob Hass, Jorie Graham, John Hollander, > May Swenson, and most of the others I saw on the list. If you don't like > calling them LANGUAGE poets, or even LANGUAGEy, I of course lack any > investment in the matter whatever. Part of committing to stipulative > definitions is the reward of not breaking down in tears if someone else > can't or won't buy in. > > I am interested (as a specimen-collector) in the idea(s) behind your "I'd > rather no poet got a paycheck if only conventional poets do because I think > it's bad for the morale of better poets." I don't think that "conventional" > means bad, or even worse. (That I _definitely_ don't care about the morale > of poets, period, probably has contaminated my thinking here, though.) Lots > of kinds of great poetry for thousands of years have depended on and/or > exploited (while often subverting, parodying, revising, etc.) all sorts of > conventions--but why am I even telling you this? Every poet knows it. If > you're talking exclusively about the several generations kicked into high > gear by Pound's determination to "Make it new," I can understand what you're > saying, I think--though I don't see why the characters handing out > half-a-mil per poet necessarily should be limited by that perspective. > > Would I like to see more poets (and more kinds of poets) get more money and > respect? You bet (because I'd like to see _everyone_ get more money and > respect, if they don't have enough of either now). I can't get weepy, > though, if a secretive club of monied do-gooders exhibit a narrow view of > what's worth rewarding. It doesn't really make a lot of sense, politically, > to think that such a bunch is likely to fund any avant-garde whatsoever > (which is one way to identify the players in the perpetual game of > I'm-More-Radical-Than-You). If the MacArthur Foundation is doling out their > goodies to their school chums of fifty or sixty (or seventy) years ago, > that's slimy enough for anyone, I'm sure, but it's not much different from > what 90 per cent of poetry "contests" do every year. They're just richer, > that's all. > > I'm sure I haven't got to the heart of this stuff. In any case, best > wishes, as ever-- > > Jerry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 21 05:46:50 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:46:50 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 07:16:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:16:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ><4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E280A77.40705@nut-n-but.net> Thanks for the interesting response, Jerry, although I wasn't able to find it that useful. Just a few points. My investment in defining language poetry is almost entirely what I call verosophical--a desire to pin down the truth of the matter--the ol' description, not prescription. As I seem to have to say over and over, I have nothing--well, make that "little"--against conventional poetry, only against the proposition that there's no other kind of significant poetry. Myu temperament is such that I have trouble seeing the fun of doing what most everyone else is doing. But my objective self, and I do have one, understands that there's no reason they can't be accomplishing as much in their way as I in mine. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 07:52:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:52:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> I define on the basis of material details: what is materially done in a poem, so I have trouble with statements like, language poets are those poets "engaged pretty self-consciously with the problematics of signification." What problems? How are they engaged--that is, how is their engagement manifested in their poems? I ignore who claims or is claimed by others to be or not be a language poet. My concern is with poems that use what I consider language poetry devices. Which I'm trying haphazardly to list. Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, although called a visual poem. What it means as language is secondary; what counts is what it /is/ as language--to wit: use the strange fact that "gh" can be silent language metaphorically. Another thought: that it uses language for more than denotation and connotation. It goes beyond what can be done with those two things. Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry in which significant use of language for the aesthetic effect not of what it denotes or connotes but what it /is/. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 10:16:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:16:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> > Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, > although called a visual poem. What it means as language is > secondary; what counts is what it /does/ as language--to wit: make > metaphoric use of the strange fact that "gh" can be silent. > > Another thought: that a language poem uses language for more than > denotation and connotation. It goes beyond what can be done with > those two things. > > Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry whose > central aesthetic effect depends not of what its language denotes or > connotes but what it /does./ > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 09:29:33 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> what it does? which leaves us what? diagraming sentences? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 10:16:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, although called a visual poem.? What it means as language is secondary; what counts is what it does as language--to wit: make metaphoric use of the strange fact that "gh" can be silent. > >Another thought: that a language poem uses language for more than denotation and >connotation.? It goes beyond what can be done with those two things.? > > >Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry whose central >aesthetic effect depends not of what its language denotes or connotes but what >it does. > >--Bob? > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 09:44:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311255899.20112.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> or we could be talking comparitive linguistics. whales must have a language. possibly more involved than any landbound lingua. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 9:29:33 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry what it does? which leaves us what? diagraming sentences? ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 10:16:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, although called a visual poem.? What it means as language is secondary; what counts is what it does as language--to wit: make metaphoric use of the strange fact that "gh" can be silent. > >Another thought: that a language poem uses language for more than denotation and >connotation.? It goes beyond what can be done with those two things.? > > >Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry whose central >aesthetic effect depends not of what its language denotes or connotes but what >it does. > >--Bob? > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 09:53:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311255899.20112.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311255899.20112.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311256416.75079.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 09:57:27 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:57:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] political poetry in US In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think one reason LangPo was/is more political is that those poets want to incorporate a wider range of language in their work -- language from math and science as well as language from politics. Also, more of those writers were involved with politics -- not to say that LangPo is the only way to write politically -- NewVerseNews publishes a poem-a-day from a more narrative aesthetic. For me, the Language Poetry that I find interesting is the poetry that keeps returning to vital concerns whether they are of personal life (i.e. Rusty Morrison's book on her father's final illness and death); or explicitly social-political concerns -- Silliman's work much of which is actually about work. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > compared with the navel gazing of the confessional poets, langpo is so > political! there's a lot of political beat poetry! actually, too, > there's a lot of political flarf. > > more recently, factory school has been publishing a series of books of > political poetry (I have one out through them). I haven't read any > that are didactic in the heretical texts series. > > the reason factory school is named factory school is the example of > the modern school (ferrar school) in NY. so to consider political > poetry in the US, start looking, and see the long history. > > is (pp) outside "official verse culture"? it wasn't in the time of > Lindsay, Kreymborg... Sanger, Goldman, Ridge and the little > magazines..., but perhaps it outside now, while on the other hand the > tradition continues because after all poetry has content > > All best, > C > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 09:56:22 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311256416.75079.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311255899.20112.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1311256416.75079.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311256582.54411.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i may have accidently sent a blank. here's what i wanted to send: Whale song reveals sophisticated language skills * 12:24 23 March 2006 by Roxanne Khamsi Humpback whales use their own syntax - or grammar - in the complex songs they sing, say researchers who have developed a mathematical technique to probe the mysteries of whale song. The team adds that whales are the only other animals beside humans to use hierarchical structure in language, in which phrases are embedded in larger, recurring themes. This concept echoes scientific suggestions from the 1970s, but the new computer analysis claims to confirm this and provides an objective measure of the songs' structure and complexity. Male humpback whales produce songs that last anywhere from about six to 30 minutes. These vocalisations vary greatly across seasons, and during breeding periods they are thought to help attract female partners. Their eerie sound and patterns have captured the attention of marine biologists for decades. Too subjective Researchers describe human language as hierarchical because it consists of sentences which contain clauses, which in turn contain words. This hierarchy helps us to extract meaning from what we hear. But some researchers remained sceptical that whale songs could contain this degree of organisation when Roger Payne and Scott McVay first offered the idea in 1971 (Science, vol 173, p 587). At the time, some argued that the observation was too subjective, explains Ryuji Suzuki, a study co-author at Howard Hughes Medical Institute, and a pre-doctoral fellow at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, US. He and colleagues developed a computer algorithm to analyse the complex patterns of moans, cries and chirps in 16 humpback whale songs. The software draws on mathematics such as probability, and considers the placement and repetitive nature of the smallest units of the animals' songs. Abstract objects Suzuki says the analysis objectively demonstrates that the whale songs have a hierarchical syntax. To hear the team's recording of humpback whales crooning off the Hawaiian coast, click here. The algorithm can also assign a numerical value to a whale song to describe its degree of complexity. Shorter whale songs appear more complex than longer ones, according to the new study. Suzuki stresses whale songs are still a far cry from our own means of expression. He says that the use of terms referring to distinct and sometimes abstract objects appears unique to human language. "We don't have any evidence of such things in whale songs." "We're still very far from knowing the meaning of whale songs," he admits. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 9:53:36 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 11:40:51 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:40:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> On 7/21/2011 8:29 AM, stephen russell wrote: > what it does? > which leaves us what? > diagraming sentences? Diagramming sentences was one of the very few things I liked doing in school. You wouldn't need to do it here unless your understanding of sentence structure is really bad. I think I can't explain it to you, at least now, if my "lighght" example doesn't make sense to you. Think about what makes it work as a pooem, if not for you, then for others like me for whom it definitely works. What makes it for me is what its "gh" is as a fragment of language, not what it denotes or connotes (which is zero). Think about Cummings's "What if a much of a which of a wind" and Stein's "rose is a rose is a rose." Neither is anything without its abuse of syntax, and that abuse does much more than simply distort a text sufficiently to slant it interesting--the way the sentence I just typed does, or tries to do--or the way an impressionistic painting distorts a pretty scene enough to make it appealing to those capable of appreciating it. I think Stein's passage does something important neurophysiologically (according to my post-Chomskian theory of linguistics): it disrupts the brain's reception of what the passage denotes in such a way as to let it start again out of a blank context, which will give a reader (or some readers) a feeling of the word, "rose," which is much closer to what most persons' first experience of an actual rose was than to something more conventional, like Burns's "My love is like a red, red rose" (although his expression has other virtues). I'm not sure about the Cummings passage, which I haven't thought about too deeply. I first made an intense analysis of the Stein passage 30 years ago--in what I believe was my first published piece of criticism, in my college literary magazine. The fact that this way of considering language poetry seems to stymy you suggests to me that I may be on to something of consequence (which is not to say I'm saying anything original). A genuine poet or serious engagent of poetry would be thrilled to discover words might be used to do something more than denote, connote, appeal to the ears, appeal to the eyes. A Philistine would feel threatened. Too threatened to ask questions the way you are, Stephen. For which, I thank you. I believe many poets called language poets just assaulted grammar in their poems for the sake of problematizing language, which they took to be a way to opposing the political status quo. Many didn't have any aesthetic motives, being (I strongly suspect) almost bereft of aesthetic sensitivity. Not that their accidents, like many of the accidents of the Dadaists, couldn't be put to far betters uses than they were able to. --Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Grumman > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Thu, July 21, 2011 10:16:35 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry > > >> Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, >> although called a visual poem. What it means as language is >> secondary; what counts is what it /does/ as language--to wit: make >> metaphoric use of the strange fact that "gh" can be silent. >> >> Another thought: that a language poem uses language for more than >> denotation and connotation. It goes beyond what can be done with >> those two things. >> >> Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry whose >> central aesthetic effect depends not of what its language denotes or >> connotes but what it /does./ >> >> --Bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 10:46:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net> <4E2834C3.5070901@nut-n-but.net> <1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311259563.11526.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> thank you. many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication, a thing that denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 11:40:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry On 7/21/2011 8:29 AM, stephen russell wrote: what it does? >which leaves us what? >diagraming sentences? >Diagramming sentences was one of the very few things I liked doing in school.? >You wouldn't need to do it here unless your understanding of sentence structure >is really bad. I think I can't explain it to you, at least now, if my "lighght" example doesn't make sense to you.? Think about what makes it work as a pooem, if not for you, then for others like me for whom it definitely works. What makes it for me is what its "gh" is as a fragment of language, not what it denotes or connotes (which is zero).? Think about Cummings's "What if a much of a which of a wind" and Stein's "rose is a rose is a rose."? Neither is anything without its abuse of syntax, and that abuse does much more than simply distort a text sufficiently to slant it interesting--the way the sentence I just typed does, or tries to do--or the way an impressionistic painting distorts a pretty scene enough to make it appealing to those capable of appreciating it.? I think Stein's passage does something important neurophysiologically (according to my post-Chomskian theory of linguistics): it disrupts the brain's reception of what the passage denotes in such a way as to let it start again out of a blank context, which will give a reader (or some readers) a feeling of the word, "rose," which is much closer to what most persons' first experience of an actual rose was than to something more conventional, like Burns's "My love is like a red, red rose" (although his expression has other virtues). I'm not sure about the Cummings passage, which I haven't thought about too deeply.? I first made an intense analysis of the Stein passage 30 years ago--in what I believe was my first published piece of criticism, in my college literary magazine. The fact that this way of considering language poetry seems to stymy you suggests to me that I may be on to something of consequence (which is not to say I'm saying anything original).? A genuine poet or serious engagent of poetry would be thrilled to discover words might be used to do something more than denote, connote, appeal to the ears, appeal to the eyes.? A Philistine would feel threatened.? Too threatened to ask questions the way you are, Stephen.? For which, I thank you. I believe many poets called language poets just assaulted grammar in their poems for the sake of problematizing language, which they took to be a way to opposing the political status quo.? Many didn't have any aesthetic motives, being (I strongly suspect) almost bereft of aesthetic sensitivity.? Not that their accidents, like many of the accidents of the Dadaists, couldn't be put to far betters uses than they were able to. --Bob > > ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 10:16:35 AM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry > > > >Saroyan's "lighght" is, for me, a perfect example of a language poem, although >called a visual poem.? What it means as language is secondary; what counts is >what it does as language--to wit: make metaphoric use of the strange fact that >"gh" can be silent. >> >>Another thought: that a language poem uses language for more than denotation and >>connotation.? It goes beyond what can be done with those two things.? >> >> >>Hey, that may be my definition of language poetry: poetry whose central >>aesthetic effect depends not of what its language denotes or connotes but what >>it does. >> >>--Bob? >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 12:06:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:06:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311259563.11526.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net><4E2834C3.507 0901@nut-n-but.net><1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> <1311259563.11526.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E284E94.9090604@nut-n-but.net> On 7/21/2011 9:46 AM, stephen russell wrote: > thank you. many people simply want to think of language as a means of > communication, a thing that denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and > wrong. I don't agree with that--unless you mean, "many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication that ONLY denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong." I'm saying language will always communicate or attempt to communicate but has more ways of communicating than the conventional ones. For instance, it can communicate by means of the way it uses words grammatically or by spelling. Saroyan's "gh" neither denotes nor connotes, but it still communicates. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 21 13:29:33 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:29:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E280A77.40705@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ><4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu> <4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu> <4E280A77.40705@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E2861FD.7040201@louisiana.edu> Bob--Glad, as always, to be of little help. Just one quick point, which I'll only make once: I _never_ use elists to pick or participate in arguments, and I _never_ use them as an occasion for ad hominem displays. If something I write seems to indicate that I've rendered a value judgment, explicit or implicit, about your (or any individual's) personal process of reading, writing, or thinking about poems, it's something I didn't intend. I try to make my own attitudes and contexts clear when I make value judgments, and I always hold that what someone else likes is his/her business. No writer covers the entire field of writing in all its dimensions--each of us has personal limitations, preferences, passions, and gifts. I studied with Bob Creeley, Richard Wilbur, John Logan, and Irving Feldman, and with the filmmaker Hollis Frampton, and have collaborated with all kinds of musicians--hard rock, classical, jazz, experimentalists of various persuasions--and it's long been clear to me that all sorts of brilliant practitioners exploit their personal gifts while blocking out quite beautiful things in modes very different from their own. This is as true of me as it is of the next person, despite my pride in having worked in a great many styles and media. It just seems stupid, to me, to deny that there are valuable things happening that just elude me. It seems equally stupid to suggest that anyone else owes me (or anyone) an appreciation of my ideas or work--these are things that the ideas and work have to earn. So I made the point that not all good or great poetry is "unconventional" (whatever that might mean, closely scrutinized), and that all poets know this--that would include you; there was no accusation implied, except that the MacArthur committee is (inevitably, I think, given its place in the social apparatus) skewed towards a more or less recognizable set of conventions encompassing (I know I didn't say this in yesterday's note) the various more or less well-established tropes of modernist and postmodern poetics. They can reward a John Hollander, who types up goose-shaped poems about geese (if my memory serves me well), but not younger and/or more adventurous folks playing at aesthetic edges such that their tropes can't be called "well-established." It's just not in Big Mac's DNA, and it hardly shocks me that people who work in less mainstream modalities (call them unconventional, if that suits you better) find them a bunch of dilettantish goons. I wouldn't demur. So no harm, no foul, right? I wasn't attacking (I _never_ will) another poet for what he or I may regard as aesthetic differences. We're an organism with organs that perform very different functions--I don't believe in gnawing off my own leg to get out of this stinking trap. yrs, Jerry On 7/21/2011 6:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Thanks for the interesting response, Jerry, although I wasn't able to > find it that useful. Just a few points. My investment in defining > language poetry is almost entirely what I call verosophical--a desire > to pin down the truth of the matter--the ol' description, not > prescription. As I seem to have to say over and over, I have > nothing--well, make that "little"--against conventional poetry, only > against the proposition that there's no other kind of significant > poetry. Myu temperament is such that I have trouble seeing the fun of > doing what most everyone else is doing. But my objective self, and I > do have one, understands that there's no reason they can't be > accomplishing as much in their way as I in mine. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 13:50:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E284E94.9090604@nut-n-but.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net><4E2834C3.507 0901@nut-n-but.net><1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> <1311259563.11526.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E284E94.9090604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311270613.761.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I think Stein's passage does something important neurophysiologically (according to my post-Chomskian theory of linguistics): it disrupts the brain's reception of what the passage denotes in such a way as to let it start again out of a blank context, which will give a reader (or some readers) a feeling of the word, "rose," which is much closer to what most persons' first experience of an actual rose was than to something more conventional, like Burns's "My love is like a red, red rose" (although his expression has other virtues). ******************************************************************* Yes, that's what I meant. The way people "want to think of language." Which ignores the richness of language/as you've gone to some measure to explain. could we say that language communicates itself? similiar to music. neurophysiologically: curious how certain notes, when combined, sound sad. Or whimsical. same with words. Alone, they're merely curious sounds. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:06:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry On 7/21/2011 9:46 AM, stephen russell wrote: thank you. many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication, a thing that denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong. > I don't agree with that--unless you mean, "many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication that ONLY denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong."? I'm saying language will always communicate or attempt to communicate but has more ways of communicating than the conventional ones.? For instance, it can communicate by means of the way it uses words grammatically or by spelling.? Saroyan's "gh" neither denotes nor connotes, but it still communicates. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Jul 21 13:49:55 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:49:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E2866C3.9030609@louisiana.edu> For sure, Mark. Most of the coolest terminological screens wind up crammed with stuff they weren't meant to catch--I think that's in the nature of terminological screens, which is why I'm no semiologist. I'm tempted to agree with Howard Nemerov--that I like poems, not poets--but that's not quite right either. (I tend to like Berryman--an appalling character, I know--better than most of his individual poems, for instance.) Part of the problem is a condition of the industrial side of poetry--that once you've identified two poets who used a highly dramatized diaristic language and called them "Confessional," you begin to find "confessional elements" in everyone from Chaucer to Kinky Friedman. The same certainly goes for LANGUAGE as a groupie phenomenon, partly because industrialists are often working a game of (while I'm quoting Kenneth Burke) Dignification--looking for marginal representatives and/or precursors to sturdy up an increasingly ramshackle category. So before you know it, not only Ashbery and Stein were cool forbears, but so was Creeley (a truly laughable gesture, I think) and every non-mainstream gentleman and lady back though Laura Riding and John Clare to the Beowulf poet. As to (poets? people on this list? bargain shoppers?) feeling "disconnected or hostile," that's not something that interests me, unless you're suggesting that that's how _I_ feel. It isn't at all. I maintain no club memberships outside of Netflix, but there's no question that I've sometimes turned languagey. Best, Jerry On 7/21/2011 4:46 AM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Jerry: For reasons probably different from Bob I have a hard time with > this. There's been a tendency in the US for those who feel > disconnected or hostile to it to identify as Language or languagey > virtually anything which departs from a pretty narrow mainstream. > We've seen some of this in this discussion--previous mentions of > Graham, for instance. A similar tendency in Britain is to call the > non-mainstream Cambridge School. Pretty widely resented in both > places, because it piles together on the basis of some surface > similarities very different poetries and intentions. I do think your > discussion of the place of theory accurate--I've been saying the same > for years--in describing a core of the original group that formed > around LANGUAGE and some of their younger students, but even there a > little care would be helpful. Often the theoretical discussion--the > terms with which the poets describe what they do--is all that the > poetries have in common. It's difficult to see Rae Armantrout and > Bruce Andrews as practicing the same kind of writing. > > Best, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry McGuire > Sent: Jul 20, 2011 11:23 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernstein > > Well, Bob, I did (intentionally) say LANGUAGEy rather than > L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E or even "language." I doubt I have a better way of > clarifying what (mostly self-identified) poets associated with the > term do than you do, and that doesn't bother me. I'm happy (in > L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E , LANGUAGE, "language," or even language) to use > my definitions stipulatively, as part of what we do when we talk > about things--but without over-investing, which usually backfires > or turns into spitting-and-gouging adventures. For me, LANGUAGE > poets/poetry invokes the avant-garde of the seventies to nineties > (I'm being approximate because I can't be specific), coincident > and intergraded with linguistic-based academic theorizing of the > same moment, not at all accidentally. So even though Frost (for > instance) perfectly well understood the problem of identifying > signifiers either with signifieds or things signified (note his > "grazing closeness to the spiritual realities," and his comments > about Keats's eccentric usage), and even though every poet who's > ever interested me (certainly including all the ones you mention) > has played sparingly or wildly with linguistic phenomena that high > theory addressed as if it were happening for the first time, or at > least as if they had discovered it, still, they don't get to be > called LANGUAGE poets because they didn't persistently repudiate > (and detach their practice from) opportunities for (naive?) > signification. Those modernists who played most vigorously--Stein, > Cummings, sometimes the Objectivists, sometimes various > Surrealists--get to be called "precursors," as Nietzsche gets to > be called a precursor by hacks who couldn't carry his umbrella. > And of course, Shakespeare remains, as a friend once said, the > Fissure King. I guess (I'm sorry it's taking me so long to think > this out) that for me, the LANGUAGE and LANGUAGEy poets are those > most invested in the stressed placed on signification by the > post-Saussurian theorizing of the late sixties through the (what?) > nineties. And like any other school or movement, it produces > better and worse engagements with the world--distinctive, in their > way, because their theorizing tends to problematize both their > phenomenological and their linguistic interactions with that > world. As to Lauterbach and Wright, it seems to me that they've > engaged pretty self-consciously with the problematics of > signification (Wright as an editor as well as a writer). Wright > has also taken a special interest in the significatory > dispositions of mapping--a belated extension of the > post-Saussurian moment. I think they're more attuned to some of > the issues pressed by Bernstein, Howe, McCaffery, Hejinian,etc. > than are Bob Hass, Jorie Graham, John Hollander, May Swenson, and > most of the others I saw on the list. If you don't like calling > them LANGUAGE poets, or even LANGUAGEy, I of course lack any > investment in the matter whatever. Part of committing to > stipulative definitions is the reward of not breaking down in > tears if someone else can't or won't buy in. > > I am interested (as a specimen-collector) in the idea(s) behind > your "I'd rather no poet got a paycheck if only conventional poets > do because I think it's bad for the morale of better poets." I > don't think that "conventional" means bad, or even worse. (That I > _definitely_ don't care about the morale of poets, period, > probably has contaminated my thinking here, though.) Lots of kinds > of great poetry for thousands of years have depended on and/or > exploited (while often subverting, parodying, revising, etc.) all > sorts of conventions--but why am I even telling you this? Every > poet knows it. If you're talking exclusively about the several > generations kicked into high gear by Pound's determination to > "Make it new," I can understand what you're saying, I > think--though I don't see why the characters handing out > half-a-mil per poet necessarily should be limited by that > perspective. > > Would I like to see more poets (and more kinds of poets) get more > money and respect? You bet (because I'd like to see _everyone_ get > more money and respect, if they don't have enough of either now). > I can't get weepy, though, if a secretive club of monied > do-gooders exhibit a narrow view of what's worth rewarding. It > doesn't really make a lot of sense, politically, to think that > such a bunch is likely to fund any avant-garde whatsoever (which > is one way to identify the players in the perpetual game of > I'm-More-Radical-Than-You). If the MacArthur Foundation is doling > out their goodies to their school chums of fifty or sixty (or > seventy) years ago, that's slimy enough for anyone, I'm sure, but > it's not much different from what 90 per cent of poetry "contests" > do every year. They're just richer, that's all. > > I'm sure I haven't got to the heart of this stuff. In any case, > best wishes, as ever-- > > Jerry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 14:01:22 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311270613.761.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net><4E2834C3.507 0901@nut-n-but.net><1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net> <1311259563.11526.YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E284E94.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <1311270613.761.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311271282.68047.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & the deaf sign poetry. poetry for the deaf, by the deaf ... a different world ... entirely ... ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 1:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry I think Stein's passage does something important neurophysiologically (according to my post-Chomskian theory of linguistics): it disrupts the brain's reception of what the passage denotes in such a way as to let it start again out of a blank context, which will give a reader (or some readers) a feeling of the word, "rose," which is much closer to what most persons' first experience of an actual rose was than to something more conventional, like Burns's "My love is like a red, red rose" (although his expression has other virtues). ******************************************************************* Yes, that's what I meant. The way people "want to think of language." Which ignores the richness of language/as you've gone to some measure to explain. could we say that language communicates itself? similiar to music. neurophysiologically: curious how certain notes, when combined, sound sad. Or whimsical. same with words. Alone, they're merely curious sounds. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:06:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry On 7/21/2011 9:46 AM, stephen russell wrote: thank you. many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication, a thing that denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong. > I don't agree with that--unless you mean, "many people simply want to think of language as a means of communication that ONLY denotes, which, as we know, is boring, and wrong."? I'm saying language will always communicate or attempt to communicate but has more ways of communicating than the conventional ones.? For instance, it can communicate by means of the way it uses words grammatically or by spelling.? Saroyan's "gh" neither denotes nor connotes, but it still communicates. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Jul 21 14:45:10 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 19:45:10 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein Message-ID: <28896672.1311273910843.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 16:09:15 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:09:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <4E2861FD.7040201@louisiana.edu> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311168007.52247.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ><4E26F763.8010204@louisiana.edu><4E275657.5040109@nut-n-but.net> <4E275577.5040500@louisiana.edu><4E280A77.40705@nut-n-but.net> <4E2861FD.7040201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E28876B.4030200@nut-n-but.net> On 7/21/2011 12:29 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Bob--Glad, as always, to be of little help. Just one quick point, > which I'll only make once: I _never_ use elists to pick or participate > in arguments, and I _never_ use them as an occasion for ad hominem > displays. If something I write seems to indicate that I've rendered a > value judgment, explicit or implicit, about your (or any individual's) > personal process of reading, writing, or thinking about poems, it's > something I didn't intend. I didn't take you to be doing that, Jerry--although, frankly, I do it all the time, and don't mind if it's done to me. I'm an elitist--so some poems are, for me, better than others, and readers who don't recognize this are, to me, lesser than others. In the end, though, who cares? To each his own. Really! all best, bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 16:15:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:15:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E2866C3.9030609@louisiana.edu> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E2866C3.9030609@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E2888CA.80408@nut-n-but.net> I love the word, "dignification." Unfortunately, it would appear that it is necessary to get any attention at all from the Big People. Aside from that, some of it is legitimate. And it works both ways--lesser poets of long ago are constantly being dignificated by showing how they were the true first confessionals and language poets or visual poets--and whoever wrote Genesis invented the Big Bang Theory. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 16:20:59 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:20:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Clarifications/ Language Poetry In-Reply-To: <1311270613.761.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E2812FB.4010509@nut-n-but.net><4E2834C3.507 0901@nut-n-but.net><1311254973.6955.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E284883.6080508@nut-n-but.net><1311259563.11526. YahooMailRC@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E284E94.9090604@nut-n-but.net> <1311270613.761.YahooMailRC@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E288A2B.4080906@nut-n-but.net> On 7/21/2011 12:50 PM, stephen russell wrote: > I think Stein's passage does something important neurophysiologically > (according to my post-Chomskian theory of linguistics): it disrupts > the brain's reception of what the passage denotes in such a way as to > let it start again out of a blank context, which will give a reader > (or some readers) a feeling of the word, "rose," which is much closer > to what most persons' first experience of an actual rose was than to > something more conventional, like Burns's "My love is like a red, red > rose" (although his expression has other virtues). > ******************************************************************* > Yes, that's what I meant. The way people "want to think of language." > Which ignores the richness of language/as you've gone to some measure > to explain. > could we say that language communicates itself? > similiar to music. I think so . . . I think. . . . > neurophysiologically: curious how certain notes, when combined, sound > sad. Or whimsical. > same with words. Alone, they're merely curious sounds. Absolutely. I think we're hard-wired to attach emotional feelings to certain sounds--possibly so we're prepared at birth (or before) to partly understand language. Probably there's a similarity between wailing and minor chords? Wailing/crying are undoubtedly hard-wired communicative reflexes, like laughter. Fascinating subject. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 21 16:28:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:28:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <28896672.1311273910843.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <28896672.1311273910843.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E288BE1.3040505@nut-n-but.net> On 7/21/2011 1:45 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > I wasn't implying that you were one of the hostile disconnected. I was > saying that the overly broad application of the term ihas become > pretty constant and that I and others find it annoying. I know that > wasn't your intent. I would say it's more the assumption that all that's needed is the broad term (although it's also over-applied, in my view). The resistance to sub-classes. I haven't worked anything much out yet, but do divide what I consider language poetry into that primarily//concerned with orthography and that primarily concerned with grammar, and the latter into a syntax-centered and an inflection-centered branch. Though the dumb poets are always mixing things up! Some do all three things in a single poem. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Jul 22 12:32:20 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:32:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] disrespect for categories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D8119A2-B444-4464-A7ED-951AA033C8A3@verizon.net> On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, our Bob wrote: > ... do divide what I consider language poetry into that primarily > concerned with orthography and that primarily concerned with > grammar, and the latter into a syntax-centered and an inflection- > centered > branch. Though the dumb poets are always mixing things up! Some > do all three things in a single poem. > Bob, I just love it when you self-mock! Billy Collins might write about damn poets sneaking into illicit categories in the dead reaches of the night. ever amused by somber discourse, Barry From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 12:35:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:35:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] disrespect for categories In-Reply-To: <2D8119A2-B444-4464-A7ED-951AA033C8A3@verizon.net> References: <2D8119A2-B444-4464-A7ED-951AA033C8A3@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi, Barry. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, our Bob wrote: > > ... do divide what I consider language poetry into that primarily >> concerned with orthography and that primarily concerned with >> grammar, and the latter into a syntax-centered and an inflection-centered >> branch. Though the dumb poets are always mixing things up! Some >> do all three things in a single poem. >> >> Bob, I just love it when you self-mock! Billy Collins might write > about damn poets sneaking into illicit categories in the dead > reaches of the night. > > ever amused by somber discourse, > > Barry > > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Jul 23 13:59:47 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?August20th_=40_1=3A00pm_-_Dan_Maguire=2C_L?= =?utf-8?b?eW5uIExldmluLCBBbmEgQm/FvmnEjWV2acSHICwgQW15IEtpbmcsIEVsaXph?= =?utf-8?q?beth_Pallitto?= Message-ID: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ?Mark your calendar and join us for?our 2nd outdoor poetry reading of the summer season.August20th @ 1:00pm?? The Fox Chase Reading Series presents a reading on the porch of?Ryerss Museum and Library?, 7370 Central Avenue, Philadlephia, Pa. 19111. . The Fox Chase Reading Series?presents the?2ndAnnual Poets on the Porch?at Ryerss Museum and Library, 7370 Central Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa. 19111. Poets?Dan Maguire, Lynn Levin, Ana Bo?i?evi??,?Amy King, Elizabeth Pallitto?join Fox Chase Poets?Diane Sahms-Guarnieri and g emil reutter?on the porch. Bring a porch chair and enjoy an afternoon of verse on the porch of the historic Ryerss Museum and Library. For more information on the poets please visit this link:?Poets on the Porch 2011 ? August 20th . www.foxchasereview.org ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 14:29:53 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 20:29:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Microsoft Message-ID: Although it is an ad for Office, I think it is quite nice: http://www.youtube.com/user/officevideos?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/xw_1I1oYApw -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jul 23 21:07:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 21:07:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What I bought a City Lights Books in SF Message-ID: <8CE17B53E9EBF5B-119C-8BA0@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> http://www.uiowapress.org/books/2011-spring/my-business-create.htm My Business Is to Create: Blake's Infinite Writing by Eric G. Wilson For William Blake, living is creating, conforming is death, and ?the imagination . . . is the Human Existence itself.? But why are imagination and creation?so vital for Blake?essential for becoming human? And what is imagination? What is creation? How do we create? Blake had answers for these questions, both in word and in deed, answers that serve as potent teachings for aspiring writers and accomplished ones alike. Eric G. Wilson?s My Business Is to Create emulates Blake, presenting the great figure?s theory of creativity as well as the practices it implies. -- -You've heard of the turkey vulture, but the 'book vulture' will be found next week hovering over the local Borders as the going-out-of-business discounts increase to 40%. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Jul 23 22:00:21 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 02:00:21 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Microsoft In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Semper Fi! Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 20:29:53 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Microsoft Although it is an ad for Office, I think it is quite nice: http://www.youtube.com/user/officevideos?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/xw_1I1oYApw -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 13:49:30 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:49:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck Message-ID: as Skip Fox says: http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html Thank you for reading, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eposamentier at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 17:18:50 2011 From: eposamentier at yahoo.com (Evelyn Posamentier) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me ? (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) ? awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck as Skip Fox says: http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html Thank you for reading, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eposamentier at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 17:33:23 2011 From: eposamentier at yahoo.com (Evelyn Posamentier) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Up at Truck In-Reply-To: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311543203.61061.YahooMailNeo@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> so very sorry about this error -- busy at work -- no real excuses! ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Evelyn Posamentier To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me ? (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) ? awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck as Skip Fox says: http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html Thank you for reading, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 21:17:55 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Stain of Poetry on July 29th at Goodbye Blue Monday at 7pm Message-ID: <1311556675.2061.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi! Don't forget to check out?Stain of Poetry?on July 29th at Goodbye Blue Monday at 7pm to hear readings from?Mary Austin Speaker, Chris Martin, John Deming?and?Ken L. Walker.? Here's the link for the Facebook invite:?http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=128933477195423 We're also thrilled to be participating in the?First Annual New York Poetry Festival on Governors Island. Our reading is on Saturday, July 30th at 2pm on Stage 1 at The Commodore.? Come out and hear readings from?Niina Pollari, Dustin Luke Nelson?and?Jillian Brall.? Here's the link for the Facebook invite:?http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=210803775630363 Also be sure to mark your calendars August 26th-?Dorthea Lasky, Jared White, Bronwen Tate,?Paul Siegell,?and?Kiely Sweatt September 30th-?Eric Weinstein, Mike Soto,?Matthew L. Rohrer?and TBA October 28th-?Bruce Covey, Emily Kendal Frey, Angela Veronica Wong, James Yeh?and?Elena Rivera Cheers, Christie Ann, Erika & Steven Stain of Poetry http://stainofpoetry.com --? --? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 01:57:27 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 07:57:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 - who else has a birthday around here? Best wishes, Anny On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier wrote: > oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me > > (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) > > awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast > > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck > > as Skip Fox says: > > http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html > > Thank you for reading, Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martinwoodside at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 08:32:01 2011 From: martinwoodside at yahoo.com (martin woodside) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 05:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves In-Reply-To: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311597121.13477.YahooMailRC@web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Good Morning All, I'm sending out a brief plug for my new anthology of Romanian Poetry, Of Gentle Wolves, from Calypso Editions. Ilya Kaminsky, quite generously, comments that "Woodside?s translations perform miracles. There is no other way to say this: the poems are alive, they breathe, they laugh and howl, they re-create our world again." And, David Baker writes,"Of Gentle Wolves is the best introduction to recent Romanian poetry I know." If you want to know more, check out the Calypso website. Have a great day, Martin Woodside -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 08:38:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:38:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff > Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), > James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 > - who else has a birthday around here? > Best wishes, Anny > > > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < > eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >> >> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >> >> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >> >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >> >> as Skip Fox says: >> >> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >> >> Thank you for reading, Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 09:54:15 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:54:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh, yes, and Amy King! On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >> - who else has a birthday around here? >> Best wishes, Anny >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>> >>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>> >>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>> >>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>> >>> as Skip Fox says: >>> >>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>> >>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 13:55:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:55:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you look in your pockets? On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >> - who else has a birthday around here? >> Best wishes, Anny >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>> >>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>> >>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>> >>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>> >>> as Skip Fox says: >>> >>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>> >>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Jul 25 14:00:42 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] birthdays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1311616842.26732.YahooMailClassic@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> My birthday is August 8th. Do I win stuff? If anyone one wants to send something stationery with your job's letterhead is always appreciated for my coyote chicanery. Also, willing to trade books with any listers who send them. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was > yesterday, Jeff > Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, > luckiest you, :-)), > James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, > Evelyn's on August 7 > - who else has a birthday around here? > Best wishes, Anny From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 14:46:01 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:46:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] birthdays In-Reply-To: <1311616842.26732.YahooMailClassic@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1311616842.26732.YahooMailClassic@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You win some warm wishes, I should have known you were one of us, ! On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 8:00 PM, David Baratier wrote: > My birthday is August 8th. Do I win stuff? > > If anyone one wants to send something > stationery with your job's letterhead > is always appreciated > for my coyote chicanery. > > Also, willing to trade books > with any listers who send them. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > > By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was > > yesterday, Jeff > > Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, > > luckiest you, :-)), > > James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, > > Evelyn's on August 7 > > - who else has a birthday around here? > > Best wishes, Anny > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 16:39:39 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:39:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nah, I never keep it there. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Did you look in your pockets? > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >>> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >>> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >>> - who else has a birthday around here? >>> Best wishes, Anny >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >>> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>>> >>>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>>> >>>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>>> >>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>>> >>>> as Skip Fox says: >>>> >>>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>>> >>>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Anny Ballardini >>>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>>> star! >>>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>>> Giovenale >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 17:02:05 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 23:02:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Might be in the kitchen, in the fridge? On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Nah, I never keep it there. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Did you look in your pockets? >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. >>> >>> >>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>> --Ezra Pound >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >>>> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >>>> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >>>> - who else has a birthday around here? >>>> Best wishes, Anny >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >>>> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>>>> >>>>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>>>> >>>>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>>>> >>>>> as Skip Fox says: >>>>> >>>>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 25 17:04:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:04:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves In-Reply-To: <1311597121.13477.YahooMailRC@web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311597121.13477.YahooMailRC@web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE192582C6FEAA-1270-2957B@webmail-d143.sysops.aol.com> Got any Lucian Blaga?.. "About a secret of poetry: It has been said that poetry is an art of words. But poetry is an art of words only to the extent to which it is also an art of non-words. indeed, silence ought to be omnipresent in poetry, very much as death is for ever present in life." --Lucian Blaga, from The ?lan of the Island, 1946. (Translated by ANDREI BANTA?.) -----Original Message----- From: martin woodside To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion group ; pussipo at googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 8:32 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves Good Morning All, I'm sending out a brief plug for my new anthology of Romanian Poetry, Of Gentle Wolves, from Calypso Editions. Ilya Kaminsky, quite generously, comments that "Woodside?s translations perform miracles. There is no other way to say this: the poems are alive, they breathe, they laugh and howl, they re-create our world again." And, David Baker writes, "Of Gentle Wolves is the best introduction to recent Romanian poetry I know." If you want to know more, check out the Calypso website. Have a great day, Martin Woodside _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 19:57:19 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:57:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Freezer maybe. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Might be in the kitchen, in the fridge? > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Nah, I never keep it there. >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Did you look in your pockets? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>>> --Ezra Pound >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>> >>>> *Mainly Black >>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>> ;* >>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>> ; * >>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>> ; * >>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>> ;* >>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >>>>> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >>>>> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >>>>> - who else has a birthday around here? >>>>> Best wishes, Anny >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >>>>> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>>>>> >>>>>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>>>>> >>>>>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>>>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>>>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>>>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>>>>> >>>>>> as Skip Fox says: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>>>>> >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 25 20:34:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:34:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves In-Reply-To: <1311631356.48289.YahooMailRC@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311597121.13477.YahooMailRC@web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CE192582C6FEAA-1270-2957B@webmail-d143.sysops.aol.com> <1311631356.48289.YahooMailRC@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE1942FA42D969-FBC-F539@webmail-m158.sysops.aol.com> Martin, would you care to post one or two poems you feel well represent your anthology? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: martin woodside To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion group ; pussipo at googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 8:32 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves Good Morning All, I'm sending out a brief plug for my new anthology of Romanian Poetry, Of Gentle Wolves, from Calypso Editions. Ilya Kaminsky, quite generously, comments that "Woodside?s translations perform miracles. There is no other way to say this: the poems are alive, they breathe, they laugh and howl, they re-create our world again." And, David Baker writes, "Of Gentle Wolves is the best introduction to recent Romanian poetry I know." If you want to know more, check out the Calypso website. Have a great day, Martin Woodside _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martinwoodside at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 21:30:51 2011 From: martinwoodside at yahoo.com (martin woodside) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves In-Reply-To: <8CE1942FA42D969-FBC-F539@webmail-m158.sysops.aol.com> References: <1311443987.12283.YahooMailNeo@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1311597121.13477.YahooMailRC@web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CE192582C6FEAA-1270-2957B@webmail-d143.sysops.aol.com> <1311631356.48289.YahooMailRC@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CE1942FA42D969-FBC-F539@webmail-m158.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1311643851.68650.YahooMailRC@web114716.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Finnegan, I'm happy to post a couple of poems here. I tired to vary tone as much as possible in the anthology, so I've picked two poems here that vary in tone to try and represent the whole. Radu Vancu is a young, up and coming Romanian poet, while Ana Blandiana is a celebrated poet from an older generation. Another poem, by Leonid Dimov, is posted on the Calypso website, and a number of poems by Gellu Naum, an early surrealist poet I'm very fond of, are in Brooklyn Rail's InTranslation section--some from that selection are in the anthology and some aren't. Martin Kapital Fourteen beers is bad, fourteen beers plus a pint of vodka is better. Clearly, Marx was right: 500 ml makes for an ideal demonstration that, after a point, quantity transforms quality. The souses had Marx in their soul, whether they know it or not. That?s why discussions in the pubs of Romania so closely resemble those in Dostoevsky?s ?The Possessed,? and for the same reason true drunkards are anti communist-- any socialist atheist who drinks with purpose becomes, after a certain threshold, a mystic anarchist. When you find the guts to stop drinking, it?s over. You?ve reached the end, the landmark where quantity can no longer transform quality. Your are already, in all likelihood, a perfect mystic with the appropriate set of regrets at hand. It?s bad not to have the guts. And much better, after the first shot of vodka. By Radu Vancu Translated by Martin Woodside Do you remember the beach? Littered with bitter pieces of glass That beach Where we couldn?t walk barefoot? The way you would stare at the sea And say you were listening to me? Do you remember Hysterical seagulls Roiled in the ringing Of unseen church bells, Behind us somewhere, Churches that keep fish As patron saints, And how you moved quickly Towards the surf, yelling Back that you needed Distance to be able to see me? The snow Blown out Tangled with birds In the water, I would look on With a kind of joyful despair As your feet marked the sea And the sea, Where I waited, Would close like an eyelid. by Ana BlandianaTranslated by Martin Woodside ________________________________ From: ? To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 8:34:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves Martin, would you care to post one or two poems you feel well represent your anthology? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: martin woodside To: NewPoetry List ; UB Poetics discussion group ; pussipo at googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 8:32 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Gentle Wolves Good Morning All, I'm sending out a brief plug for my new anthology of Romanian Poetry, Of Gentle Wolves, from Calypso Editions. Ilya Kaminsky, quite generously, comments that "Woodside?s translations perform miracles. There is no other way to say this: the poems are alive, they breathe, they laugh and howl, they re-create our world again." And, David Baker writes,"Of Gentle Wolves is the best introduction to recent Romanian poetry I know." If you want to know more, check out the Calypso website. Have a great day, Martin Woodside _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jul 25 22:31:28 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:31:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Society trustees forced out Message-ID: <8CE1953420628AE-187C-B99A@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/22/poetry-society-annual-meeting-no-confidence-vote Perhaps the last organisation in the country to expect name-calling, accusations of bad faith and scurrilous postings on YouTube likening opponents to Nazis would be the Poetry Society. Yet in a heated, three-hour extraordinary general meeting, not only did the century-old society's board of trustees volunteer to resign, but they were sent on their way by a motion of no confidence, amid shouts of rubbish and claims of incompetence. The meeting, held at the Surgeons' Hall in London, left plenty of blood on the carpet... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 06:35:53 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 12:35:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I knew you would find it! On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Freezer maybe. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Might be in the kitchen, in the fridge? >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >>> Nah, I never keep it there. >>> >>> >>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>> --Ezra Pound >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Did you look in your pockets? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>>>> --Ezra Pound >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> >>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> >>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>> >>>>> *Mainly Black >>>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>>> ; * >>>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>>> ; * >>>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>>> ;* >>>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >>>>>> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >>>>>> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >>>>>> - who else has a birthday around here? >>>>>> Best wishes, Anny >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >>>>>> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>>>>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>>>>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>>>>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as Skip Fox says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 06:48:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 06:48:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Up at Truck In-Reply-To: References: <1311542330.13821.YahooMailNeo@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nope, not in freezer. I'll keep looking. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 6:35 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I knew you would find it! > > > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Freezer maybe. >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Might be in the kitchen, in the fridge? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> Nah, I never keep it there. >>>> >>>> >>>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>>> --Ezra Pound >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> >>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>> >>>> *Mainly Black >>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>> ;* >>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>> ; * >>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>> ; * >>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>> ;* >>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Anny Ballardini < >>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did you look in your pockets? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have one somewhere, but I forgot where I put it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Literature is news that stays news." >>>>>> --Ezra Pound >>>>>> >>>>>> Hal >>>>>> >>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> >>>>>> halvard at gmail.com >>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>> >>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>>>>> >>>>>> *Mainly Black >>>>>> , **Obras P?blicas >>>>>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>>>>> ;* >>>>>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>>>>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>>>>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>>>>> ; * >>>>>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>>>>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>>>>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>>>>> ; * >>>>>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>>>>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>>>>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>>>>> ;* >>>>>> *Transparencies & Projections >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Anny Ballardini < >>>>>> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> By mine, Evelyn was talking of Birthdays. Mine was yesterday, Jeff >>>>>>> Newberry's the day before (23, very first degree of Leo, luckiest you, :-)), >>>>>>> James Finnegan's - our list owner - sometime in August, Evelyn's on August 7 >>>>>>> - who else has a birthday around here? >>>>>>> Best wishes, Anny >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Evelyn Posamentier < >>>>>>> eposamentier at yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> oh, my, oh, my -- you never cease to amaze me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (mine is aug. 7, and yours exactly?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> awaiting your word just off the pacifc coast >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>>>>>>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>>>>>>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:49 AM >>>>>>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Up at Truck >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as Skip Fox says: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/2011/07/anny-ballardini-and-baudelaire.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for reading, Anny >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 07:03:17 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:03:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Society trustees forced out In-Reply-To: <8CE1953420628AE-187C-B99A@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1953420628AE-187C-B99A@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: James, you have a question mark instead of your name. Is that the way it should be? On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 4:31 AM, ? wrote: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/22/poetry-society-annual-meeting-no-confidence-vote > > Perhaps the last organisation in the country to expect name-calling, > accusations of bad faith and scurrilous postings on YouTube likening > opponents to Nazis would be the Poetry Society. > > Yet in a heated, three-hour extraordinary general meeting, not only did the > century-old society's board of trustees volunteer to resign, but they were > sent on their way by a motion of no confidence, amid shouts of rubbish and > claims of incompetence. The meeting, held at the Surgeons' Hall in London, > left plenty of blood on the carpet... > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 11:46:41 2011 From: tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com (=?utf-8?B?VG9tw6FzIMOTIEPDoXJ0aGFpZ2g=?=) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:46:41 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Edition - Cartys Poetry Journal Published Message-ID: <1309966995.71900.YahooMailClassic@web161617.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It was meant to be published for April - May, but Irish efficiency decreed it would have to wait until July. But good things are worth waiting for we think, and we hope you enjoy reading the Summer 2011 edition of Cartys Poetry Journal. In Print: Contact us for a print edition, and indicate do you want it in black and white or colour. Black and white costs ?3.00, colour costs ?9.99 Cartys Poetry Journal, an online magazine of poetry published in the Irish midland town of Tullamore. The aim of the journal is to bring a voice for traditional poetry to the masses, alongside the more contemporary and avante garde formats. We aim to give voice to new Irish and international writers, alongside their more established counterparts. Issue 6 is published! The new edition of Cartys Poetry Journal has just been published! Past issues are being formatted in HTML on the site, as well as being in PDF format. ? Home ::: Current Issue ::: Past Issues ::: Submissions ::: Contributors ::: Forums ::: Links "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written one is never at peace" - www.writingsinrhyme.com??::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 13:27:12 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:27:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday to Carl Jung Message-ID: Birthdate of Carl Jung July 26, 1875 http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=2313189753751&set=a.1052872446606.2008875.1369627608&type=1&theater -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jul 26 15:14:47 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:14:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Modern Poetry and Visual Art Message-ID: <8CE19DF6B77E78D-2B84-17615@webmail-d168.sysops.aol.com> Important New Book on Modern Poetry and Visual Art http://www.booktryst.com/2011/07/important-new-book-on-modern-poetry-and.html Booktryst (blog) by Stephen J. Gertz Between 1974 and 1976, Kevin Power, on a fellowship from the American Council on Learned Societies, interviewed eight modern American poets about the relationship between painting and poetics in postmodern American poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 09:00:42 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Greatest bio ever Message-ID: <1311771642.74999.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i don't know Kane's work, but his bio is better than most poems or stories. i think he has something to do with the Mad Hatter's, that lit thing: ************************************************************** Steve Kane is a writer and composer from the UK of questionable talent and unequalled idleness. He employs many a cunning ploy to avoid doing anything remotely productive such as harvesting organs from the homeless to sell to Turkish sailors and hunting geography teachers for sport. He was once elected President of Azerbaijan by mistake. Although only in power for twenty minutes, he made peep-hole bras mandatory attire for all men under the age of forty-seven. He is currently serving a two year prison sentence for buggering a haddock. Visit?www.steve-kane.co.uk?for more gibberish -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 09:51:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem Message-ID: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not since they elected S Beckett. Still, can a math poem be Nobel? It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from human affairs? No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is whether certain august committies would ever consider a math poet or a vispo poet worthy of their awards. Personally, I find math poetry intruiging, but I'm not sure if I'd ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. Yeah. Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember those annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 27 12:45:10 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:45:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dunn, Jollmore, Muske-Duke, and Wood reviewed Message-ID: <8CE1A93AF00111E-28A4-C76A@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Poetry by Stephen Dunn, Troy Jollimore, Carol Muske-Dukes and Susan Wood http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/poetry-by-stephen-dunn-troy-jollimore-carol-muske-dukes-and-susan-wood/2011/07/09/gIQAI28PbI_story.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 13:01:05 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311786065.9040.YahooMailRC@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> by usual committee standards, i'd vote for Wendell Berry. Margaret Atwood has enough awards. i suppose Berry, too. none-the-less, he gets my vote. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 9:51:43 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not since they elected S Beckett. Still, can a math poem be Nobel? It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from human affairs? No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is whether certain august committies would ever consider a math poet or a vispo poet worthy of their awards. Personally, I find math poetry intruiging, but I'm not sure if I'd ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. Yeah. Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember those annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Jul 27 13:37:23 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:37:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast Message-ID: From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: A book I won't name in order to protect the possibly innocent "is an example of a substrain of contemporary American literature that we might classify as Lazy Apartment Poetry." Interesting that Apple's dictionary on the iPad doesn't like "substrain," which is perfectly OK at the NYT. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 27 14:38:21 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:38:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Snider From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: A book I won't name in order to protect the possibly innocent "is an example of substrain of contemporary American literature that we might classify as Lazy partment Poetry." -- Bob will have to be consulted as to whether that term merits entering the general nomenclature... But one could spin other related substrains... Lavish Penthouse Poetry Sloppy Men's Room Poetry Fit & Trim Gym Poetry Blotto Barroom Poetry Imperious Executive Suite Poetry Bored Commuter Train Poetry Sleepy International Flight Poetry Relaxed Cruise Ship Poetry Harried Cab Ride Poetry Freespending Shopping Mall Poetry -- Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 14:41:48 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1311792108.46405.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> lazy apartment poetry? i've done tons of those. For Those Who Fear Their Apartments In order to love an apartment you must love yourself. You must walk through the unlit rooms of yourself without turning on a light. Feel your feet sinking into plush Persian carpet, be at one with the indoor plumbing of yourself, allow the warmth of a tub full of fresh water to wash over the person you've become. Your personality is perfect. It is not a thing you should try to fight. You've lived within the apartment's few walls for many nights. Have wept, cursed, stomped feet while hopelessly drunk inside of those dim lit rooms. The apartment knows you better than you know yourself. Why treat it so poorly? As you learn to love???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? your apartment, it, too, will love you. ________________________________ From: ? To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 2:38:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast -----Original Message----- From: Mike Snider From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 14:49:27 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: <1311792108.46405.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> <1311792108.46405.YahooMailRC@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311792567.71890.YahooMailRC@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Lavish Penthouse Poetry Sloppy Men's Room Poetry can poetry matter? Fit & Trim Gym Poetry Blotto Barroom Poetry can poetry matter? Imperious Executive Suite Poetry Bored Commuter Train Poetry can poetry matter? Sleepy International Flight Poetry Relaxed Cruise Ship Poetry can poetry matter? Harried Cab Ride Poetry Freespending Shopping Mall Poetry can poetry matter? & will i finish this Goddamn book before the next bus stops? -- ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 2:41:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast lazy apartment poetry? i've done tons of those. For Those Who Fear Their Apartments In order to love an apartment you must love yourself. You must walk through the unlit rooms of yourself without turning on a light. Feel your feet sinking into plush Persian carpet, be at one with the indoor plumbing of yourself, allow the warmth of a tub full of fresh water to wash over the person you've become. Your personality is perfect. It is not a thing you should try to fight. You've lived within the apartment's few walls for many nights. Have wept, cursed, stomped feet while hopelessly drunk inside of those dim lit rooms. The apartment knows you better than you know yourself. Why treat it so poorly? As you learn to love???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? your apartment, it, too, will love you. ________________________________ From: ? To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 2:38:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast -----Original Message----- From: Mike Snider From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 27 16:02:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:02:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> On 7/27/2011 8:51 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not > since they elected S Beckett. They've elected a bunch of mediocrities since Beckett, Stephen. > Still, can a math poem be Nobel? > It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from /human > /affairs? No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to > say is whether certain august committies would ever consider a math > poet or a vispo poet worthy of their awards. Of course not. What's bothersome about it to the Philistines is not that it's mathematical but that it's new. > Personally, I find math poetry intriguing, but I'm not sure if I'd > ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But > Vispo. Yeah. You need to think of mathematical poetry as poetry that is extended by a kind of element not hitherto used in poetry the way visual poetry is poetry extended by graphics. > Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember > those annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? > Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. I hope not. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jul 27 16:09:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:09:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E30708E.1090005@nut-n-but.net> On 7/27/2011 1:38 PM, ? wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Snider From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: > > A book I won't name in order to protect the possibly innocent "is an example of > a substrain of contemporary American literature that we might classify as Lazy > Apartment Poetry." > --- > Bob will have to be consulted as to whether that term merits entering > the general nomenclature... No. The term "subject-matter-centered-crap-the-NYTimes-thinks-worthy-of-review" covers it and hundreds of like substrains quite satisfactorily, I think. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 15:16:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311794186.68075.YahooMailRC@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> interesting the comment about Philistines. in other words, poems without conventional language, meter ... is not poetry ... by dull philistine standards. the Basho experiment was interesting. the one using his famous frog/poem/splash ... mathmatically becoming ... something other than Basho. presently, because i like to do everything (tho i haven't attempted a math poem yet)?i'm interested in, i think in terms of Venn diagrams. drawing. circles. what's in or not in the universe. i didn't take the calculus. more interested in beer and girls. i'm still a little intimidated my math anything. but my respect for mathmaticians ... Newton ... Gauss ...?or anyone doing anything mathmatical? ... is enormous. btw, Bob, your classifications of various poetics was excellent. i think you've managed to incluced about everything. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 4:02:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem On 7/27/2011 8:51 AM, stephen russell wrote: Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not since they elected S Beckett. They've elected a bunch of mediocrities since Beckett, Stephen. Still, can a math poem be Nobel? >It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from human affairs? No, >that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is whether certain >august committies would ever consider a math poet or a vispo poet worthy of >their awards. Of course not.? What's bothersome about it to the Philistines is not that it's mathematical but that it's new.? Personally, I find math poetry intriguing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. Yeah.You need to think of mathematical poetry as poetry that is extended by a kind of element not hitherto used in poetry the way visual poetry is poetry extended by graphics. > >Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember those >annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? >Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. >I hope not. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 16:11:54 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:11:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Not to mention -- Soupy Sales Poetry, Fancy Fricassee Poetry, Hazy Day Poetry . . . "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:38 PM, ? wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Snider > From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: > > A book I won't name in order to protect the possibly innocent "is an example of > a substrain of contemporary American literature that we might classify as Lazy > Apartment Poetry."--- > > > Bob will have to be consulted as to whether that term merits entering the > general nomenclature... > But one could spin other related substrains... > > Lavish Penthouse Poetry > > Sloppy Men's Room Poetry > > Fit & Trim Gym Poetry > > Blotto Barroom Poetry > > Imperious Executive Suite Poetry > > Bored Commuter Train Poetry > > Sleepy International Flight Poetry > > Relaxed Cruise Ship Poetry > > Harried Cab Ride Poetry > > Freespending Shopping Mall Poetry > -- > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 16:15:04 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:15:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Let's put someone (maybe B-bob) up for an Ignobel Prize in Poetry. Anyone who's ever written or not written a poem is eligible to make nominations (that's sort of how the Nobel works). "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > ** > On 7/27/2011 8:51 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not since > they elected S Beckett. > > > They've elected a bunch of mediocrities since Beckett, Stephen. > > Still, can a math poem be Nobel? > It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from *human *affairs? > No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is whether > certain august committies would ever consider a math poet or a vispo poet > worthy of their awards. > > > Of course not. What's bothersome about it to the Philistines is not that > it's mathematical but that it's new. > > Personally, I find math poetry intriguing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever > buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. > Yeah. > > You need to think of mathematical poetry as poetry that is extended by a > kind of element not hitherto used in poetry the way visual poetry is poetry > extended by graphics. > > > Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember those > annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? > Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. > > I hope not. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 17:13:29 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:13:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the most important: Black Clothes Poetry. - Jim On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Not to mention -- > > Soupy Sales Poetry, Fancy Fricassee Poetry, Hazy Day Poetry . . . > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:38 PM, ? wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike Snider > >> From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: >> >> A book I won't name in order to protect the possibly innocent "is an example of >> a substrain of contemporary American literature that we might classify as Lazy >> Apartment Poetry."--- >> >> >> Bob will have to be consulted as to whether that term merits entering the >> general nomenclature... >> But one could spin other related substrains... >> >> Lavish Penthouse Poetry >> >> Sloppy Men's Room Poetry >> >> Fit & Trim Gym Poetry >> >> Blotto Barroom Poetry >> >> Imperious Executive Suite Poetry >> >> Bored Commuter Train Poetry >> >> Sleepy International Flight Poetry >> >> Relaxed Cruise Ship Poetry >> >> Harried Cab Ride Poetry >> >> Freespending Shopping Mall Poetry >> -- >> Finnegan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 17:22:19 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311801739.14494.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... the vulger, or is it vulgur prize ... the globally ignoble unwashed ... still, i want to know these mediocres the Nobel folks in Switzerland have picked since Beckett (according the Grumman). Fuck it, I'm a pluralist. I prefer the innovative, but I'll take simply good on most times. Besides, I'm suspicious of everything (lit wise), including the innovative. 'Cause that, too, dwindles into mere novelty. Samuel Beckett was a fantastic choice for the Nobel. He did everything well. His prose is breath taking (Molly/Malone). Ditto the plays, and probably the poetry, tho I haven't read enough ... a little worried that Beckett would throw in bunches of obscure Latin, and I'm too lazy to take a class .... ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 4:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem Let's put someone (maybe B-bob) up for an Ignobel Prize in Poetry. Anyone who's ever written or not written a poem is eligible to make nominations (that's sort of how the Nobel works). "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >On 7/27/2011 8:51 AM, stephen russell wrote: >Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not >since they elected S Beckett. They've elected a bunch of mediocrities since Beckett, Stephen. Still, can a math poem be Nobel? >It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from human >affairs? No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say >is whether certain august committies would ever consider a math poet >or a vispo poet worthy of their awards. Of course not. What's bothersome about it to the Philistines is not that it's mathematical but that it's new. Personally, I find math poetry intriguing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. Yeah. You need to think of mathematical poetry as poetry that is extended by a kind of element not hitherto used in poetry the way visual poetry is poetry extended by graphics. >Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember >those annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? >Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. > I hope not. --Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 17:32:01 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1AA37E9ABD80-28A4-DE49@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1311802321.90581.YahooMailRC@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> He's so Goddamn bored. Blotto Barroom Poetry -- ... he's pissed himself. burnt out bladder poetry. ________________________________ From: James Cervantes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 5:13:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Cautiously feeding the beast Don't forget the most important: Black Clothes Poetry. - Jim On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Not to mention -- > > > >Soupy Sales Poetry, Fancy Fricassee Poetry, Hazy Day Poetry . . . >? >"Literature is news that stays news." >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ >http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:38 PM, ? wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Mike Snider >From the July 16 New York Times Book Review: A book I won't name in order to >>protect the possibly innocent "is an example of a substrain of contemporary >>American literature that we might classify as Lazy Apartment Poetry." --- >> >> >>Bob will have to be consulted as to whether that term merits entering the >>general nomenclature... >>But one could spin other related substrains... >> >>Lavish Penthouse Poetry >> >>Sloppy Men's Room Poetry >> >>Fit & Trim Gym Poetry >> >>Blotto Barroom Poetry >> >>Imperious Executive Suite Poetry >> >>Bored Commuter Train Poetry >> >>Sleepy International Flight Poetry >> >>Relaxed Cruise Ship Poetry >> >>Harried Cab Ride Poetry >> >>Freespending Shopping Mall Poetry >>-- >>Finnegan >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 17:38:27 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem In-Reply-To: <1311801739.14494.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311774703.43112.YahooMailRC@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E306EE3.3090002@nut-n-but.net> <1311801739.14494.YahooMailRC@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311802707.52379.YahooMailRC@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> to please the proper usage police ... i meant simply good most of the time. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 5:22:19 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem ... the vulger, or is it vulgur prize ... the globally ignoble unwashed ... still, i want to know these mediocres the Nobel folks in Switzerland have picked since Beckett (according the Grumman). Fuck it, I'm a pluralist. I prefer the innovative, but I'll take simply good on most times. Besides, I'm suspicious of everything (lit wise), including the innovative. 'Cause that, too, dwindles into mere novelty. Samuel Beckett was a fantastic choice for the Nobel. He did everything well. His prose is breath taking (Molly/Malone). Ditto the plays, and probably the poetry, tho I haven't read enough ... a little worried that Beckett would throw in bunches of obscure Latin, and I'm too lazy to take a class .... ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 4:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] nobel prize = math poem Let's put someone (maybe B-bob) up for an Ignobel Prize in Poetry. Anyone who's ever written or not written a poem is eligible to make nominations (that's sort of how the Nobel works). ?? ? "Literature is news that stays news." ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 7/27/2011 8:51 AM, stephen russell wrote: >Noone can accuse the Nobel committe of being backward anymore. Not since they >elected S Beckett. They've elected a bunch of mediocrities since Beckett, Stephen. Still, can a math poem be Nobel? >It can certainly be philosophical, but is it too remote from human affairs? No, >that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is whether certain >august committies would ever consider a math poet or a vispo poet worthy of >their awards. Of course not.? What's bothersome about it to the Philistines is not that it's mathematical but that it's new.? Personally, I find math poetry intriguing, but I'm not sure if I'd ever buy a volume. I'd rather take a math class, get good at math. But Vispo. Yeah.You need to think of mathematical poetry as poetry that is extended by a kind of element not hitherto used in poetry the way visual poetry is poetry extended by graphics. > >Maybe a math poet who included math problems in language. Remember those >annoying paragraphs we had to puzzle through in grade school? >Maybe that kind of poet could become nobel by conventional standards. >I hope not. --Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jul 27 21:43:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:43:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP Message-ID: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> http://books.simonandschuster.com/buy/The-Best-American-Poetry-2011/9781439181515/from-other-retailers#ebook_retailers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 28 10:46:07 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:46:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New essays on Jack Spicer In-Reply-To: <2514062637680241343@jngomktg.net> References: <2514062637680241343@jngomktg.net> Message-ID: <8CE1B4C380DE69A-C-4565D@webmail-d151.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Wesleyan Press To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, Jul 27, 2011 12:43 pm Subject: New essays on Jack Spicer We are pleased to announce a new book -- After Spicer: Critical Essays, edited by John Emil Vincent. The beauty and difficulty of Jack Spicer?s poetry continues to resonate with contemporary audiences nearly fifty years after his death. After Spicer brings together work by ten eminent literary scholars to provide a long overdue exploration of Spicer?s legacy even as it continues to unfold. As editor John Emil Vincent notes, it is Spicer?s ?boundary crashing??in his poetry, poetics, and politics?that makes his work so powerful and relevant today. After Spicer extends the conversation between poet and reader that Spicer considered essential to the composition and survival of poems. Incisive essays by Maria Damon, Norman Finkelstein, Kelly Holt, Catherine Imbriglio, Kevin Killian, Michael Snediker, Anita Sokolsky, and Keith and Rosmarie Waldrop, provide an overview of Spicer?s oeuvre?his poetry, letters, plays, and his only novel?and explore his work in relation to queer theory, audience, religion, the lyric, and seriality. These essays give us crucial insights into Spicer?s transition from a regional cult figure to a canonical postmodern poet. For more details on this book, click here. Click here to forward this e-mail to a friend! ORDERING DETAILS: SAVE 30% if you order from the above web site and use discount code W301 -- use the "details" link above. Or order through your favorite bookseller, or by calling University Press of New England at 1-800-421-1561 (or 603-448-1533, x255 or x256). US Shipping charges are $5.00 for the first book and $1.25 for each additional. In CANADA, order through the University of British Columbia Press at (800) 565-9523 or email mailto:utpbooks at utpress.utoronto.ca In EUROPE, order through Eurospan at +44 (0) 207 240 0856 or email mailto:orders at edspubs.co.uk Academic users may order an Examination Copy for potential course adoption. Please request a copy of the book in a letter on your institutional letterhead, and include the course title, estimated enrollment, and $5.00 for shipping (check, MasterCard, Visa, Discover, AmEx). Mail your request to: UPNE, Attn: Exam Copies, 1 Court Street, Suite 250, Lebanon, NH 03766-1358, USA or fax to (603) 448-9429. ****************** You are receiving this e-mail because one of our authors provided us with your contact information, or you have used one of our books, published a book with us, placed an order, or subscribed through our web site. If you do not wish to receive e-mail from us, please reply to this message and let us know -- you WILL reach a real human being. We never, EVER rent, sell, or share our email list. Your address is safe with us. This e-mail was sent by Wesleyan University, located at 215 Long Lane, Middletown, CT 06459 (USA). To receive no further e-mails, please click here or reply to this e-mail with "unlist" in the Subject line. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 28 13:43:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:43:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> In a way it's good to see these collections of "best American poems" come off the presses, this one over three months before the year the poems are the best of it over. It's unnerving to be in the position of someone with Nero Wolfe's orchid gardens to be shown a book celebrating various gardens of (very mediocre) daisies and told they are the best of the most recent year, but gratifying, too, to find one's own garden so obviously and vastly superior to what supposed authorities proclaim the best. Oh, but no doubt Kevin Young's collection, which I've not seen and whose contributors--and editor--are unknown to me (but which I am absurd enough to believe I know quite a bit about) will actually be of superior poems! I just can't wait to find out. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 28 15:26:52 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:26:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE1B73707EB978-230C-DF08@webmail-d176.sysops.aol.com> Bob, I think you've got your standard response down pat now, very well rehearsed. Have you been practicing in front of a mirror? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Jul 28, 2011 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In a way it's good to see these collections of "best American poems" come off the presses, this one over three months before the year the poems are the best of it over. It's unnerving to be in the position of someone with Nero Wolfe's orchid gardens to be shown a book celebrating various gardens of (very mediocre) daisies and told they are the best of the most recent year, but gratifying, too, to find one's own garden so obviously and vastly superior to what supposed authorities proclaim the best. Oh, but no doubt Kevin Young's collection, which I've not seen and whose contributors--and editor--are unknown to me (but which I am absurd enough to believe I know quite a bit about) will actually be of superior poems! I just can't wait to find out. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Jul 28 16:58:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel Message-ID: <1311886718.36607.YahooMailNeo@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great.? Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 28 18:55:12 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:55:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <8CE1B73707EB978-230C-DF08@webmail-d176.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com><4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <8CE1B73707EB978-230C-DF08@webmail-d176.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> On 7/28/2011 2:26 PM, ? wrote: > Bob, I think you've got your standard response down pat now, very well > rehearsed. Have you been practicing in front of a mirror? > > Finnegan The same one you use to keep telling us about these anthologies, Finnegan. But if you were a fan of my kind of comedy, you'd be aware of the many fresh little twists on the basic formula I carry out--much the way the poets in Wilshberia do in their poems, in fact. For instance, I never used the bit about the value of seeing how much better one's work is than the work of the recognized before. I've always expressed dismay at having to see it so many times. Moreover, as I've said before, I think it important for the morale of poets outside certification to be able every once in a while to read a post or two against domination by the mainstream among all the celebrations of the mainstream. I can't believe I'm the only New-Poetry participant who scorns the Best American Poetry series. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 17:53:33 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:53:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <8CE1B73707EB978-230C-DF08@webmail-d176.sysops.aol.com> <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Jesus, B-bob, what do you think the mainstream is for if not to celebrate the mainstream? "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/28/2011 2:26 PM, ? wrote: > > Bob, I think you've got your standard response down pat now, very well > rehearsed. Have you been practicing in front of a mirror? > > Finnegan > > The same one you use to keep telling us about these anthologies, Finnegan. > But if you were a fan of my kind of comedy, you'd be aware of the many fresh > little twists on the basic formula I carry out--much the way the poets in > Wilshberia do in their poems, in fact. For instance, I never used the bit > about the value of seeing how much better one's work is than the work of the > recognized before. I've always expressed dismay at having to see it so many > times. > > Moreover, as I've said before, I think it important for the morale of poets > outside certification to be able every once in a while to read a post or two > against domination by the mainstream among all the celebrations of the > mainstream. I can't believe I'm the only New-Poetry participant who scorns > the Best American Poetry series. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 28 19:09:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:09:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <1311886718.36607.YahooMailNeo@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311886718.36607.YahooMailNeo@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E31EC23.50809@nut-n-but.net> On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: > I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip > Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in > English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... > your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell > moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it. Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have. But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work. Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English. I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. > > Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in > Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United > States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a > philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled > vermen ... however the (@#?) ... > Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad. Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 28 19:18:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:18:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com><4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net><8CE1B73707EB978-230C-DF08@we bmail-d176.sysops.aol.com><4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E31EE56.3040606@nut-n-but.net> On 7/28/2011 4:53 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Jesus, B-bob, what do you think the mainstream is for if not to > celebrate the mainstream? What do you think superior poet/critics are for if not to denounce the dominance of the mainstream, Hal? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 18:13:49 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:13:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <4E31EE56.3040606@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> <4E31EE56.3040606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Superior poet/critics--now there's an oxymoron. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/28/2011 4:53 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Jesus, B-bob, what do you think the mainstream is for if not to celebrate > the mainstream? > > What do you think superior poet/critics are for if not to denounce the > dominance of the mainstream, Hal? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jul 28 19:27:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:27:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com><4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net><4E31EE56.3040606@nut-n-bu t.net> Message-ID: <4E31F071.7010103@nut-n-but.net> On 7/28/2011 5:13 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Superior poet/critics--now there's an oxymoron. Only to an intellectual nihilist. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 18:28:18 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:28:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <4E31F071.7010103@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE1ADEE4CC0E91-2478-1F163@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com> <4E319FCF.3050504@nut-n-but.net> <4E31E8D0.2040801@nut-n-but.net> <4E31F071.7010103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Flattery will get you nowhere. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/28/2011 5:13 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Superior poet/critics--now there's an oxymoron. > > > Only to an intellectual nihilist. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 28 18:30:57 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP Message-ID: I have never read nor heard of Larkin, Seidel, Wilbur, Ashbery, and/or Kevin Young. Am I missing anything? Are they any gud? I have a MFA from Corumbia and read only Langauage Peots, who I was told by my instructer are the real thing. I dont no what "visaul peotry" is but wud lik to lurn. Signed, A Young Peot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jul 28 19:48:07 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:48:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE1B97EF00BAF8-1938-1111@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> I was wondering where Sam had been. I had heard they legalized 'noodling' recently in Texas, so I thought he'd taken up a new sport. -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP I have never read nor heard of Larkin, Seidel, Wilbur, Ashbery, and/or Kevin Young. Am I missing anything? Are they any gud? I have a MFA from Corumbia and read only Langauage Peots, who I was told by my instructer are the real thing. I dont no what "visaul peotry" is but wud lik to lurn. Signed, A Young Peot _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jul 28 23:53:07 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP Message-ID: <3e90b.2a7c0ecc.3b6388a3@cs.com> In a message dated 7/28/2011 10:23:32 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I was wondering where Sam had been. I had heard they legalized 'noodling' > recently in Texas, so I thought he'd taken up a new sport. > Really? Wow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 02:16:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:16:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <3e90b.2a7c0ecc.3b6388a3@cs.com> References: <3e90b.2a7c0ecc.3b6388a3@cs.com> Message-ID: I'd say that Sam goes back to high school and learns how to write before rhyming and noodling. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:53 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 7/28/2011 10:23:32 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > I was wondering where Sam had been. I had heard they legalized 'noodling' > recently in Texas, so I thought he'd taken up a new sport. > > > Really? Wow. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 09:16:19 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <4E31F071.7010103@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311945379.95144.YahooMailClassic@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Where i come from, there's only ONE way to settle this. Honor is the corner stone of OUR tradition. Sadly, the dishonored are not heard from after matters are settled, but things get mighty peaceful at the ranch. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:27 PM On 7/28/2011 5:13 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Superior poet/critics--now there's an oxymoron. Only to an intellectual nihilist. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 09:23:42 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1311945822.13219.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yes, I can recommend several remedial teachers. Highschool is a very rewarding experience for a middle-aged man, ?as happens to be my case. Sam, who may only be in his twenties, will have to overcome those cumbersome self-esteem issues. I advise lots of porn and beer. --- On Fri, 7/29/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 2:16 AM I'd say that Sam goes back to high school and learns how to write before rhyming and noodling. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:53 AM, wrote: In a message dated 7/28/2011 10:23:32 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: I was wondering where Sam had been. I had heard they legalized 'noodling' recently in Texas, so I thought he'd taken up a new sport. Really?? Wow. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 09:32:05 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <4E31EC23.50809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1311946325.82780.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Perhaps I'm being a little rough on Florida. After all, they gave us Skynard and the Allman brothers (the latter being a fact of countless arguments) as well as Nat and Cannonball Adderly. There are few real Natives. Including the actual Seminoles. The Seminoles never signed a peace treaty. Technicallly, they own the joint. Now they're stuck with Disney. Which leads me to reconsider the white man's burden. I you'll excuse me, I'm going outside to shoot myself. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:09 PM On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it.? Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have.? But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work.? Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English.? I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad.? Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 09:44:02 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <1311946325.82780.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311947042.34483.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Some poems by Siedel: ? --- On Fri, 7/29/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 9:32 AM Perhaps I'm being a little rough on Florida. After all, they gave us Skynard and the Allman brothers (the latter being a fact of countless arguments) as well as Nat and Cannonball Adderly. There are few real Natives. Including the actual Seminoles. The Seminoles never signed a peace treaty. Technicallly, they own the joint. Now they're stuck with Disney. Which leads me to reconsider the white man's burden. I you'll excuse me, I'm going outside to shoot myself. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:09 PM On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it.? Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have.? But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work.? Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English.? I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad.? Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 29 09:47:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:47:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <1311946325.82780.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> And of course there's Key West...now more touristy, but in its heyday frequented by Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ernest Hemingway, Eliz. Bishop, James Merrill, Tennesee Williams... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 9:32 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel Perhaps I'm being a little rough on Florida. After all, they gave us Skynard and the Allman brothers (the latter being a fact of countless arguments) as well as Nat and Cannonball Adderly. There are few real Natives. Including the actual Seminoles. The Seminoles never signed a peace treaty. Technicallly, they own the joint. Now they're stuck with Disney. Which leads me to reconsider the white man's burden. I you'll excuse me, I'm going outside to shoot myself. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:09 PM On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it. Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have. But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work. Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English. I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad. Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 09:57:52 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1311947872.39400.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & the noveliest Harry Crews. Now there's a serious and fun kick ass guy. Seriouly, if it ever came down to actual fist-duh-cuffs, Crews takes any lit guy, anywhere, anytime. ? I've heard great things about Key West. Have read better things. & since I've gone from Florida bashing to Florida pride in an hiccup, there's also ... also ... Cambell McGrath ... excellent poet ... also ... Zore Neal Hurston ... who lived in Eatonville, ?which borders Orlando ...? colored people lived there (now, if I'm not mistaken, people of color)?... leaving (us) fun loving charming red necks?lovely Central Florida. Damn I'm conflicted. --- On Fri, 7/29/11, ? wrote: From: ? Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 9:47 AM And of course there's Key West...now more touristy, but in its heyday frequented by Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ernest Hemingway, Eliz. Bishop, James Merrill, Tennesee Williams... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 9:32 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel Perhaps I'm being a little rough on Florida. After all, they gave us Skynard and the Allman brothers (the latter being a fact of countless arguments) as well as Nat and Cannonball Adderly. There are few real Natives. Including the actual Seminoles. The Seminoles never signed a peace treaty. Technicallly, they own the joint. Now they're stuck with Disney. Which leads me to reconsider the white man's burden. I you'll excuse me, I'm going outside to shoot myself. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:09 PM On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it.? Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have.? But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work.? Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English.? I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad.? Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 29 11:13:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:13:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kevin Young's BAP In-Reply-To: <1311945379.95144.YahooMailClassic@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1311945379.95144.YahooMailClassic@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E32CE0D.6040401@nut-n-but.net> On 7/29/2011 8:16 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Where i come from, there's only ONE way to settle this. Honor is the > corner stone of OUR tradition. Sadly, the dishonored are not heard > from after matters are settled, but things get mighty peaceful at the > ranch. > Ain't none a yore business, pardner. Me and Hal, we's takin' it to the UN. We's civilized. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 29 11:17:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:17:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E32CF01.3000105@nut-n-but.net> On 7/29/2011 8:47 AM, ? wrote: > And of course there's Key West...now more touristy, but in its heyday > frequented by Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ernest Hemingway, Eliz. > Bishop, James Merrill, Tennesee Williams... > > Finnegan The American center of visual poetry, the Ruth and Marvin Sackner Archive of Concrete and Visual Poetry is in Miami. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 10:11:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <1311947872.39400.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311948673.36066.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> see some photos of Harry Crews. He looks scarey. Compared to Crews, Bukowski is a large sissy. --- On Fri, 7/29/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 9:57 AM & the noveliest Harry Crews. Now there's a serious and fun kick ass guy. Seriouly, if it ever came down to actual fist-duh-cuffs, Crews takes any lit guy, anywhere, anytime. ? I've heard great things about Key West. Have read better things. & since I've gone from Florida bashing to Florida pride in an hiccup, there's also ... also ... Cambell McGrath ... excellent poet ... also ... Zore Neal Hurston ... who lived in Eatonville, ?which borders Orlando ...? colored people lived there (now, if I'm not mistaken, people of color)?... leaving (us) fun loving charming red necks?lovely Central Florida. Damn I'm conflicted. --- On Fri, 7/29/11, ? wrote: From: ? Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 9:47 AM And of course there's Key West...now more touristy, but in its heyday frequented by Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ernest Hemingway, Eliz. Bishop, James Merrill, Tennesee Williams... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 9:32 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel Perhaps I'm being a little rough on Florida. After all, they gave us Skynard and the Allman brothers (the latter being a fact of countless arguments) as well as Nat and Cannonball Adderly. There are few real Natives. Including the actual Seminoles. The Seminoles never signed a peace treaty. Technicallly, they own the joint. Now they're stuck with Disney. Which leads me to reconsider the white man's burden. I you'll excuse me, I'm going outside to shoot myself. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 7:09 PM On 7/28/2011 3:58 PM, stephen russell wrote: I challenge Grumman not to admire these 2 poets (Philip Larkin/Fredrick Seidel). Larkin pulled off the best popular poem (in English) of the 2nd half of the 20th century. "They fuck you up ... your mum & dad." How do we classify them? Urban/Ironic, post Lowell moderist? In any event, they're great. I haven't liked what I've read of Seidel enough to pursue it.? Larkin is just a formal poet who has a distinctive outlook on life, as all poets have.? But, like Wilbur, he's a superior formal poet, so I admire his work.? Maybe one level below Stevens, Cummings, Roethke, Yeats and the other poets on my list of favorite deceased recognized twentieth-century poets in English.? I wouldn't get annoyed with anyone's claiming he ought to be in the top level, though. Grumman, you live in Florida, yes? Now I understand. I grew up in Orlando, the armpit of Florida which is the armpit of the United States (an armpits armpit). The average Floridian isn't merely a philistine ... he/she/It/ ... they're vermin ... or is it spelled vermen ... however the (@#?) ... Well, I wasn't born here, but I don't find Floridians, even average ones, so bad.? Most, like people everywhere, are Philistines, but at least they aren't the pretentious Philistines that the cultural gate-keepers in New York City, Boston and San Francisco are. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 10:16:55 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:16:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <4E32CF01.3000105@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com> <4E32CF01.3000105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On the other hand, most of the world's best places are not in Florida. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/29/2011 8:47 AM, ? wrote: > > And of course there's Key West...now more touristy, but in its heyday > frequented by Robert Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ernest Hemingway, Eliz. Bishop, > James Merrill, Tennesee Williams... > > Finnegan > > > The American center of visual poetry, the Ruth and Marvin Sackner Archive > of Concrete and Visual Poetry is in Miami. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 29 10:57:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:57:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Devil of a part In-Reply-To: <1311948673.36066.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE1C170A7BFD50-100C-29FB6@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-lundberg/bradley-cooper-paradise-lost_b_907134.html When Bradley Cooper signed on to play Satan in the forthcoming big screen adaptation of John Milton's epic poem "Paradise Lost," he took on a far more nuanced role than you might expect. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 29 11:13:38 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:13:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com><4E32CF01.3000105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE1C193A1B8AC9-100C-2A459@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> I like visiting Florida. I still get excited about seeing palm trees. Being from St. Louis, hot, humid but no ocean in the summer, and living for years in New England, cooler in summer but the ocean water for swimming is often described by native New Englanders as 'brisk' or 'refreshing', which I take as euphemistic warning for 'really chilly'. South Beach art deco district is crazy and fun. Sanibel Island on the Gulf side is relaxed and more out of the way. The worse thing I could say about Florida is it's like that Thomas Friedman book title, "Hot, Flat, and Crowded." Cuban population in Miami boasts poet Ricardo Pau Llosa... http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/cultist/2010/11/in_honor_of_our_people.php -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2011 10:16 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel On the other hand, most of the world's best places are not in Florida. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 29 11:25:45 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (?) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:25:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Noodling in TX Message-ID: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Personally, I'm good with a canepole, line & hook, but to each his own: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/texas-noodling-bill-legalization_n_864643.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 11:49:40 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:49:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Noodling in TX In-Reply-To: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: James, does your email address have a ? instead of your name? That's how it's coming up on my screen on every post and it's driving me nuts. Or is it something on my system? On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:25 AM, ? wrote: > Personally, I'm good with a canepole, line & hook, but to each his own: > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/texas-noodling-bill-legalization_n_864643.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 11:55:27 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:55:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Noodling in TX In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Calm down, David. ? is Finnegan. "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:49 AM, David Weinstock wrote: > James, does your email address have a ? instead of your name? That's how > it's coming up on my screen on every post and it's driving me nuts. Or is > it something on my system? > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:25 AM, ? wrote: > >> Personally, I'm good with a canepole, line & hook, but to each his own: >> >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/texas-noodling-bill-legalization_n_864643.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 12:25:27 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:25:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Noodling in TX In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Well, if Jim is ?, what punctuation mark is Hal? On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Calm down, David. ? is Finnegan. > > > "Literature is news that stays news." > --Ezra Pound > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:49 AM, David Weinstock < > david.weinstock at gmail.com> wrote: > >> James, does your email address have a ? instead of your name? That's how >> it's coming up on my screen on every post and it's driving me nuts. Or is >> it something on my system? >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:25 AM, ? wrote: >> >>> Personally, I'm good with a canepole, line & hook, but to each his own: >>> >>> >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/texas-noodling-bill-legalization_n_864643.html >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> David Weinstock >> david.weinstock at gmail.com >> 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 12:36:56 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:36:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Noodling in TX In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C1AEBBF3D75-100C-2A889@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: :: "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:25 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > Well, if Jim is ?, what punctuation mark is Hal? > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Calm down, David. ? is Finnegan. >> >> >> "Literature is news that stays news." >> --Ezra Pound >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:49 AM, David Weinstock < >> david.weinstock at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> James, does your email address have a ? instead of your name? That's how >>> it's coming up on my screen on every post and it's driving me nuts. Or is >>> it something on my system? >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:25 AM, ? wrote: >>> >>>> Personally, I'm good with a canepole, line & hook, but to each his >>>> own: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/texas-noodling-bill-legalization_n_864643.html >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Weinstock >>> david.weinstock at gmail.com >>> 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jul 29 14:45:36 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:45:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin/Seidel In-Reply-To: <8CE1C193A1B8AC9-100C-2A459@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1C0D2BFA40E8-2530-102F6@webmail-d174.sysops.aol.com><4E32CF01.3000105@nut-n-but.net> <8CE1C193A1B8AC9-100C-2A459@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E32FFD0.8010409@nut-n-but.net> > Cuban population in Miami boasts poet Ricardo Pau Llosa... It also boasts visual poet Carlos Luis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jul 29 15:45:52 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:45:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone Message-ID: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 15:58:40 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I feel much better now. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: > Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got > populated with a '?'. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Fri Jul 29 16:01:15 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:01:15 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com>, Message-ID: I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. Nice to feel I knew a ? though! Sheila From: david.weinstock at gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone I feel much better now. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 02:43:45 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 08:43:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the Question Mark Message-ID: James, I told you many posts ago! I know, I am a teacher.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anny Ballardini Date: Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Society trustees forced out To: NewPoetry List James, you have a question mark instead of your name. Is that the way it should be? On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 4:31 AM, ? wrote: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/22/poetry-society-annual-meeting-no-confidence-vote > > Perhaps the last organisation in the country to expect name-calling, > accusations of bad faith and scurrilous postings on YouTube likening > opponents to Nazis would be the Poetry Society. > > Yet in a heated, three-hour extraordinary general meeting, not only did the > century-old society's board of trustees volunteer to resign, but they were > sent on their way by a motion of no confidence, amid shouts of rubbish and > claims of incompetence. The meeting, held at the Surgeons' Hall in London, > left plenty of blood on the carpet... > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 08:36:26 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (Sheila Black) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: > I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. > > Nice to feel I knew a ? though! > > Sheila > > From: david.weinstock at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > I feel much better now. > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: > Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Sat Jul 30 08:56:25 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:56:25 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com>, , , <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know--I always feel the same way. You are in Tulsa right? I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico--more or less the same part of the country. I guess I'm "from" back east--but I've lived out here a long time. I was teaching at NMSU (new mexico state) but now I'm working in their foundation. I think I would rather be teaching, but I'm writing more NOT teaching. Go figure. I'll attach a picture. Just from the doppleganger perspective....(poet twins) Cheers! Sheila From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. Nice to feel I knew a ? though! Sheila From: david.weinstock at gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone I feel much better now. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sheila[1].jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Sat Jul 30 09:05:21 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:05:21 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone--Whoops! PLEASE IGNORE THIS MESSAGE In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Hi all-- Whoops! I really didn't mean to send this message to the whole list! Sorry about that! (I feel really dumb about the picture--I don't usually send out pictures of myself; such a vain-seeming thing to do on the whole--I just thought it would ease the doppleganger feeling I--and I'm sure you, Sheila often have when we run across each other). Sorry List! Rewind! Sheila From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:56:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone I know--I always feel the same way. You are in Tulsa right? I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico--more or less the same part of the country. I guess I'm "from" back east--but I've lived out here a long time. I was teaching at NMSU (new mexico state) but now I'm working in their foundation. I think I would rather be teaching, but I'm writing more NOT teaching. Go figure. I'll attach a picture. Just from the doppleganger perspective....(poet twins) Cheers! Sheila From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. Nice to feel I knew a ? though! Sheila From: david.weinstock at gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone I feel much better now. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 10:07:43 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (Sheila Black) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:07:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes I do feel weird and a bit paranoid given some poets sense of humor-- so dry bordering on eccentric/ironic--and even our middle initial is so close. I too am a lurker and enjoy the discussion (when it is about poetics) however, I am glad to know your real. Se black Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 7:56 AM, sheila black wrote: > I know--I always feel the same way. You are in Tulsa right? I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico--more or less the same part of the country. I guess I'm "from" back east--but I've lived out here a long time. I was teaching at NMSU (new mexico state) but now I'm working in their foundation. I think I would rather be teaching, but I'm writing more NOT teaching. Go figure. I'll attach a picture. Just from the doppleganger perspective....(poet twins) > > > Cheers! > > Sheila > > From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? > > > Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: > > I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. > > Nice to feel I knew a ? though! > > Sheila > > From: david.weinstock at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > I feel much better now. > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: > Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 10:39:34 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (Sheila Black) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:39:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <06006501-C1A5-4D7E-8023-E2C248F5F6FF@yahoo.com> Saw your face . You have a very sweet smile and kind eyes. Thanks for sending it. Sheila Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 7:56 AM, sheila black wrote: > I know--I always feel the same way. You are in Tulsa right? I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico--more or less the same part of the country. I guess I'm "from" back east--but I've lived out here a long time. I was teaching at NMSU (new mexico state) but now I'm working in their foundation. I think I would rather be teaching, but I'm writing more NOT teaching. Go figure. I'll attach a picture. Just from the doppleganger perspective....(poet twins) > > > Cheers! > > Sheila > > From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? > > > Sheila e. Black. Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: > > I kind of loved the ? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. > > Nice to feel I knew a ? though! > > Sheila > > From: david.weinstock at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > I feel much better now. > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: > Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a '?'. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sat Jul 30 16:36:08 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ? gone In-Reply-To: <06006501-C1A5-4D7E-8023-E2C248F5F6FF@yahoo.com> References: <8CE1C3F4239B7EB-2A8-286CC@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> <89AF637E-131C-4F7F-AED5-C7DADA8C8E38@yahoo.com> <06006501-C1A5-4D7E-8023-E2C248F5F6FF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1312058168.29198.YahooMailNeo@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i wish you kids the best ... send postcards. ________________________________ From: Sheila Black To: NewPoetry List Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone Saw your face . ?You have a very sweet smile and kind eyes. ?Thanks for sending it. ?Sheila ?? Sheila e. Black. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 7:56 AM, sheila black wrote: I know--I always feel the same way.? You are in Tulsa right?? I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico--more or less the same part of the country.? I guess I'm "from" back east--but I've lived out here a long time.? I was teaching at NMSU (new mexico state) but now I'm working in their foundation.? I think I would rather be teaching, but I'm writing more NOT teaching.? Go figure.? I'll attach a picture.? Just from the doppleganger perspective....(poet twins) > > >Cheers! > >Sheila > > > >________________________________ >From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:36:26 -0500 >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone > > >Hi sheila black. I am also named sheila elizabeth black. ?It is so odd to see your posts on this poetics list knowing we seem to have the same profession and same love of poetry, etc. I live and teach in oklahoma. What part of the country are you from? > >?? >Sheila e. Black. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Sent from my iPhone > >On Jul 29, 2011, at 3:01 PM, sheila black wrote: > > >I kind of loved the ?? I kept thinking it sounded like you (I'm usually a lurker, but feel I know you a tiny bit through Connie), but couldn't be sure. >> >>Nice to feel I knew a ? though! >> >>Sheila >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: david.weinstock at gmail.com >>Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:58:40 -0400 >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ? gone >> >> >>I feel much better now. ? >> >> >>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45 PM, wrote: >> >>Sorry, I don't how that happened but the From field in my aol account got populated with a?'?'. >>> >>>Finnegan >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New-Poetry mailing list >>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>David Weinstock >>david.weinstock at gmail.com >>802-388-6939 ?802-989-4314 >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Jul 31 10:23:46 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:23:46 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Merwin the Magician, his name is ubiquitous.He faced the black magician of Tibet at Snowmass,now we see evidence of coincidental fingerprintof fate in the D.B. Cooper mystery. http://sn133w.snt133.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=compose%3fsubject%3dDB%2520Cooper%253A%2520FBI%2520has%2520new%2520suspect%252040%2520years%2520after%2520fugitive%2520parachuted%2520from%2520hijacked%2520plane%2520%257C%2520Mail%2520Online%26body%3d%3cbr%3ehttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2020687%252FDB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3eShared+using+the+Bing+Bar Shared using the Bing Bar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Jul 31 10:32:53 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> This link took me to a signup for Hotmail. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:24 am Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" Merwin the Magician, his name is ubiquitous. He faced the black magician of Tibet at Snowmass, now we see evidence of coincidental fingerprint of fate in the D.B. Cooper mystery. http://sn133w.snt133.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=compose%3fsubject%3dDB%2520Cooper%253A%2520FBI%2520has%2520new%2520suspect%252040%2520years%2520after%2520fugitive%2520parachuted%2520from%2520hijacked%2520plane%2520%257C%2520Mail%2520Online%26body%3d%3cbr%3ehttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2020687%252FDB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3eShared+using+the+Bing+Bar Shared using the Bing Bar _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 10:54:55 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:54:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: DB Cooper fell into Lake Merwin, not W.S. Merwin. On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:32 AM, wrote: > This link took me to a signup for Hotmail. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry > Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:24 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect > Parachute Crime" > > Merwin the Magician, his name is ubiquitous. > He faced the black magician of Tibet at Snowmass, > now we see evidence of coincidental fingerprint > of fate in the D.B. Cooper mystery. > > > http://sn133w.snt133.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=compose%3fsubject%3dDB%2520Cooper%253A%2520FBI%2520has%2520new%2520suspect%252040%2520years%2520after%2520fugitive%2520parachuted%2520from%2520hijacked%2520plane%2520%257C%2520Mail%2520Online%26body%3d%3cbr%3ehttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2020687%252FDB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3eShared+using+the+Bing+Bar > > Shared using the Bing Bar > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Jul 31 11:25:01 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 15:25:01 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: , , <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com>, Message-ID: Map: Locations in Washington where Cooper was originally thought to have landed and where some of the ransom money was found in 1980 Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020687/DB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html#ixzz1ThFN7laR What you say SEEMS to be true. But, according to the magical tenets of mathematical hypothesizing the egghead working at a blackboardwill cause the world to hatch its plots itself. Obviously, Merwin's fingerprint is all over this thing. Don't believe me, believe your own lying eyes.From: david.weinstock at gmail.com Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:54:55 -0400 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" DB Cooper fell into Lake Merwin, not W.S. Merwin. On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:32 AM, wrote: This link took me to a signup for Hotmail. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:24 am Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" Merwin the Magician, his name is ubiquitous. He faced the black magician of Tibet at Snowmass, now we see evidence of coincidental fingerprint of fate in the D.B. Cooper mystery. http://sn133w.snt133.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=compose%3fsubject%3dDB%2520Cooper%253A%2520FBI%2520has%2520new%2520suspect%252040%2520years%2520after%2520fugitive%2520parachuted%2520from%2520hijacked%2520plane%2520%257C%2520Mail%2520Online%26body%3d%3cbr%3ehttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2020687%252FDB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3eShared+using+the+Bing+Bar Shared using the Bing Bar _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Jul 31 15:57:01 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:57:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Maybe it's this guy: http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/ c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 19:06:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 01:06:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great news Message-ID: Issue twenty-two of Otoliths has just gone live. As always, it presents the broad church of creativity the journal is renowned for, with new work from John Martone, Elisa Gabbert & Kathleen Rooney, Richard Kostelanetz, Philip Byron Oakes, Karen Neuberg, dan raphael, M?rton Kopp?ny, Martin Burke, Stephen Nelson, John M. Bennett, Morgan Harlow, Sheila E. Murphy, Anny Ballardini, Raymond Farr, Ray Scanlon, Marco Giovenale, Ryan Scott, Tom Beckett (interviewing Kirsten Kaschock), Kirsten Kaschock, Erica Eller, Jim Meirose, Howie Good, Enola Mirao, Jean Vengua (onDion Farquhar?s *Feet First**), *Walter Ruhlmann, Jill Jones, David James Miller, Michael Caylo-Baradi, Catherine Vidler, Jillian Mukavetz, Zachary Scott Hamilton, Jill Chan, Glenn R. Frantz, Felino Soriano, Iain Britton, Mark Cobley, bruno neiva, Brenda Mann Hammack, Toby Fitch, Tony Rickaby, Grzegorz Wr?blewski, Lisa Samuels, Kevin Opstedal, Gustave Morin, Rich Murphy, Laura Wetherington, Jeff Harrison, J. D. Nelson, Charles Freeland, Rosaire Appel, Ann Vickery, Isaac Linder, Bobbi Lurie, Sam Langer, Rose Hunter, Spencer Selby, Jason Lester, Michael Brandonisio, Bob Heman, Keith Higginbotham, Connor Stratman, & Marcia Arrieta. Enjoy. front cover image by Rosaire Appel.jpg -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 20:41:47 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:41:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Are you *seriously *saying that W.S. Merwin is/was either a) involved in the D.B. Cooper caper or b) *is *D.B. Cooper? Anyone remember Zoolander? That clip in which Will Ferrell's character exclaims, "Am I taking crazy pills?!?!" --Jeff "Crazy Pills" Wilshberry On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 11:25 AM, R Dillon < elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: > [image: Map: Locations in Washington where Cooper was originally thought > to have landed and where some of the ransom money was found in 1980] > > Map: Locations in Washington where Cooper was originally thought to have > landed and where some of the ransom money was found in 1980 > > > Read more: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020687/DB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html#ixzz1ThFN7laR > > *What you say SEEMS to be true. But, according to the magical tenets of > mathematical hypothesizing the egghead working at a blackboard* > *will cause the world to hatch its plots itself. Obviously, Merwin's > fingerprint is all over this thing. Don't believe me, believe your own > lying eyes.* > ------------------------------ > From: david.weinstock at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:54:55 -0400 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect > Parachute Crime" > > > DB Cooper fell into Lake Merwin, not W.S. Merwin. > > > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:32 AM, wrote: > > This link took me to a signup for Hotmail. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry > Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:24 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect > Parachute Crime" > > Merwin the Magician, his name is ubiquitous. > He faced the black magician of Tibet at Snowmass, > now we see evidence of coincidental fingerprint > of fate in the D.B. Cooper mystery. > > > http://sn133w.snt133.mail.live.com/default.aspx?rru=compose%3fsubject%3dDB%2520Cooper%253A%2520FBI%2520has%2520new%2520suspect%252040%2520years%2520after%2520fugitive%2520parachuted%2520from%2520hijacked%2520plane%2520%257C%2520Mail%2520Online%26body%3d%3cbr%3ehttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2020687%252FDB-Cooper-FBI-new-suspect-40-years-fugitive-parachuted-hijacked-plane.html%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3eShared+using+the+Bing+Bar > > Shared using the Bing Bar > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > David Weinstock > david.weinstock at gmail.com > 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Jul 31 21:06:50 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 01:06:50 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "PerfectParachute Crime" In-Reply-To: References: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2025661688-1312160811-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-66093037-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Well, you know Merwin has lived well for many years with no really visible means of support. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:41:47 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jul 31 21:15:58 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:15:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What Iowa Means To Me, McSweeney Style Message-ID: <8CE1DFFB45A1472-22D4-260BD@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> http://nplusonemag.com/iowa-occult-a-mutter-pedagogy-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-vomit-art What stuck in my throat from Iowa: Write like you?re dead?JG. Oh stop worrying about the line break; when this class ends today, no one?s every going to read this poem again.?JG. Irony is when you don?t call things by their right names. And when you don?t call things by their right names, that?s what the Nazis did.?JG. If you write with too many contemporary references, your poems will be dated.?JG. Little knuckles of knowledge like the rolled goatbones by which the Ancients told the future, carve me up like the ripped out entrails by which the Ancients told the future, scatter me like entrail-birds into the dawn sky, by which the Ancients judged which way the future lies. An inverted, occult version of Iowa pedagogy. A workshop occult. Arcana. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jul 31 21:18:30 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:18:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "PerfectParachute Crime" In-Reply-To: <2025661688-1312160811-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-66093037-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <8CE1DA5DDE2A66C-2598-2138F@web-mmc-m04.sysops.aol.com> <2025661688-1312160811-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-66093037-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <8CE1E000F1D07F3-22D4-26115@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> In Hawaii you can just pick the fruit right off the trees. Money just means you don't have to walk so far to see the ocean. -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "PerfectParachute Crime" Well, you know Merwin has lived well for many years with no really visible means f support. ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- rom: Jeff Newberry ender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu ate: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:41:47 o: NewPoetry List eply-To: NewPoetry List ubject: Re: [New-Poetry] FW: W.S. Merwin involved in D.B. Cooper "Perfect Parachute Crime" _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: