From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 07:35:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 13:35:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Q & A - Cayce Message-ID: Think on This ... (Q) Will the New Year unfold greater opportunities for my professional advancement and my greater service to my fellow man? (A) These are part of self's own development and must rise within by taking advantage of those opportunities which are offered from day to day. As has so oft been indicated, and this body will find same within its own experience, it is as we use that in hand that the greater opportunities are given. Edgar Cayce Reading 1472-9 Become part of the legacy. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sat Jan 1 13:55:38 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:55:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] what's in a name? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17BC0E75-7259-4A74-99D3-42D2890B14E1@verizon.net> On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Bob G. wrote: > I /have/ seen some of your (excellent) visimages (i.e., works of > visual art). Thanks for that kind parenthetical, Bob (in truth, I call them "paintings"). From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 1 16:07:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 16:07:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] what's in a name? In-Reply-To: <17BC0E75-7259-4A74-99D3-42D2890B14E1@verizon.net> References: <17BC0E75-7259-4A74-99D3-42D2890B14E1@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4D1F978B.7080908@nut-n-but.net> On 1/1/2011 1:55 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Bob G. wrote: >> I /have/ seen some of your (excellent) visimages (i.e., works of >> visual art). > > Thanks for that kind parenthetical, Bob (in truth, I call them > "paintings"). I think the only ones I've seen were things I, too, would call, "paintings," Barry, but I wasn't sure. Some could have been computer images not considered by most to be "paintings. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 16:41:16 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 22:41:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] something Message-ID: like this can make you feel just _nobody_: Andrew Oldham January 1 at 9:13pm Reply ? Report Over 2011, Incwriters http://www.incwriters.co.uk/ and the Andrew Oldham home website, http://www.andrewoldham.co.uk/ will be taking a snapshot of writers and poets in the UK and abroad. The aim is simple, all those contributing will answer the same interview question and the responses will be published over the year on both websites. If you?re interested answer the question below, you can answer it in two ways, a simple email reply (text based) or a vodcast (video taken on your phone or on a camcorder). All videos will be posted to the Incwriters YouTube channel. The only rule is that your answer must be a minimum of 100 words to the following question: 1) What defines you as a writer/poet? And must be accompanied by a short 25 word bio and bio image (jpg) and email to andrew_incwriters at yahoo.co.uk asap. Incwriters www.incwriters.co.uk I shall stick to just ONE FEAR AND ONE HOPE: the fear that out of FEAR, fear of discrimination, scapegoating, having your job progression blocked, stigmatised as ?trouble maker? or even losing your job - writers and artists, academics, health care professionals and fellow travellers ? all who work Share addressed to the following: Between Angela Topping , Cathy Galvin , Ade Jackson, Alizon Brunning , Andrew McMillan , Annie Freud, You , Anthony Caleshu, Aoife Mannix , Bill Greenwell , Bob Beagrie, Bob Holman , Carol Fenlon, Carole Baldock , Carrie Etter , Cath Nichols, Charles Bennett , Charles Johnson , Charles Lambertand Andrew Oldham -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Sat Jan 1 17:36:14 2011 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 17:36:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?a_noun_sing_e=B7ratio_14_=B7_2011?= Message-ID: <9c8bcc6b8d7929016f4510a2783095c0.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> e? a noun sing e?ratio 14 ? 2011 with poetry and such by Alan Halsey, Carey Scott Wilkerson, Keith Higginbotham, Simon Dutton, Anne Blonstein, Mark DuCharme, J. Crouse, Paul Siegell, Joseph F. Keppler, Richard Kostelanetz, David Rushmer, Stephen Emmerson, Dylan Harris, Joel Chace, Marcia Arrieta, Kat Dixon, Iris Orpi, Jasmine Dreame Wagner, Amanda Laughtland, Ben Nardolilli, Teresa K. Miller, A.J. Huffman, J. Michael Wahlgren, Emily Jern-Miller, Philip Byron Oakes, Stephen Nelson, Travis Macdonald, Travis Cebula, Francis Raven, Dawn Pendergast, Eric Hoffman, Mark Young, Jos? Luis Guti?rrez, Ric Carfagna, Hugh Tribbey and M?rton Kopp?ny and featuring Paul de Man and the Cornell Demaniacs, an e?ratio editions e?chap essay in recollection by Jack Foley http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com edited for real by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino e? From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 1 18:06:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 18:06:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] something In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D1FB358.8000803@nut-n-but.net> On 1/1/2011 4:41 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > like this can make you feel just _nobody_: Not me. I just felt annoyed by the question. What defines me as a writer is that I put words down on paper, or the equivalent thereof; what defines me as a poet is that I try to do things to those words to make them not prose. I suspect, though, that whoever made up the question wanted to find out what one's goals as a writer/poet were. Ultimately, to give pleasure to others in as many different ways simultaneously as possible--aesthetic pleasure in the case of poetry, verosophical pleasure in the case of my prose. From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 05:15:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:15:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 24grammata e-Magazine (Language - History - Culture) In-Reply-To: <20110101205100.08764523@24grammata.com> References: <20110101205100.08764523@24grammata.com> Message-ID: For those who can understand, there is anyhow a section in English. Best wishes, Anny 24????????. *??????????? ????????? ??? ?? ??????, ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????????.* *? ???? ??? ?????????* *??? ?? **24???????? : ** ?????????????* *?????????? ?? ???? ?????:* ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ?????????????. ?' ???????? ??? ??????, ??? ?? ???????????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ?????, ?????? ? ?????? ??? ?????????????. ???? ?? ????? ????????, ????? <>.24grammata.com???????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????????? ??????? ??? ????? ?????????????. ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ?????: ?) ??? ?? *????? + ????????* (: ?? ???????, scarabaeus pilularius) > ???????????? (?? ???? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????????????: ??????, ?????????, ??????????? Boll). ?) ? ?. ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ????????????? ????? ?????????? ??????????: (???? +?????????) ?) ??? ?? ???????? ???? caligatus > ????????? ?) ??? ?? "????? + ?????????", ???? ??? Lawson ?) ??? ?? "????? + ????????" ? ??? ?? "????? + ????????" ? ??? ?? "?????????" (: ? ????????????????) ??????? ???????? ??? ??????????? ???: *24grammata.com* *????????? ?????? ?? "????? ??? ???? ??? ????????" ??? ?. ????????* *??? ???? 50 ??????? ??????, ??????? ?????????? ??? ?? 24grammata.com (free ebooks)* *????????, ??????, * *????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ???? 6 ??????????;* *?? ??????? ???????? ??? ????????????* *?? ????????????? ?? 10 ??????????? ???? ??? ??????????* *?? ???????? ??? ??????????* *? ??????? ??? ?????* *?????, ? ????????? * *??? ????? ??? ?????* *890 ????? ???? ????????, ???????, ???????, ?????????, ??????? ??? ???????? ??????* ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? "*???? ??? ?????????"* ???? ??? ???? ???????????? ????? ??? ????????? *www**.24**grammata**.**com*. ???????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ???????????? ??? ??? ??????????? ???????? ??? ?? 24????????, ??? ????????? http://24grammata.com/?page_id=6. ?? ??? ?????????? ?? ????????? ??????????? ????????, ???????? ?? ????????????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ?? e-mail ??? ??? ??? ??????????? ????? ?????????? ??? e-mail ??? unsubscribe at 24grammata.com ?? ????? "????????" ? "Unsubscribe". 24????????(c) 2010. ?? ??? ????????? ?????? ???????????. ???????? ??? ?? 24???????? -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche << Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae >> Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Jan 2 05:45:38 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 05:45:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] what's in a name? In-Reply-To: <4D1F978B.7080908@nut-n-but.net> References: <17BC0E75-7259-4A74-99D3-42D2890B14E1@verizon.net> <4D1F978B.7080908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Barry -- just went to your site and looked at them. Nice work. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/1/2011 1:55 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: > >> >> On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Bob G. wrote: >> >>> I /have/ seen some of your (excellent) visimages (i.e., works of >>> visual art). >>> >> >> Thanks for that kind parenthetical, Bob (in truth, I call them >> "paintings"). >> > I think the only ones I've seen were things I, too, would call, > "paintings," Barry, but I wasn't sure. Some could have been computer > images not considered by most to be "paintings. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 08:44:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 14:44:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] what's in a name? In-Reply-To: References: <17BC0E75-7259-4A74-99D3-42D2890B14E1@verizon.net> <4D1F978B.7080908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I agree, a wonderful texture, love for color, fragmented forms on a solid basis. Playful and thoughtful at the same time. On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Barry -- just went to your site and looked at them. Nice work. > > > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 1/1/2011 1:55 PM, Barry Spacks wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Bob G. wrote: >>> >>>> I /have/ seen some of your (excellent) visimages (i.e., works of >>>> visual art). >>>> >>> >>> Thanks for that kind parenthetical, Bob (in truth, I call them >>> "paintings"). >>> >> I think the only ones I've seen were things I, too, would call, >> "paintings," Barry, but I wasn't sure. Some could have been computer >> images not considered by most to be "paintings. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jan 2 11:20:09 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 10:20:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] WC Williams: The Practice Message-ID: The always engaging Narrative magazine has reprinted "The Practice" chapter of William Carlos Williams's autobiography in their new issue: http://www.narrativemagazine.com/issues/winter-2011/practice This is part of their "Classics" series of reprints. I believe you may have to register to see such content; but registration is free. Narrative is one of the brightest lights among new journals I've seen, and I do love that they include a lot of poetry among their storytelling offerings. Wonder if Tad Richards has submitted to them? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Jan 2 12:23:13 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 12:23:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WC Williams: The Practice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't -- did not know of them. But I do love a good story -- I'll check them out. On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:20 AM, David Graham wrote: > The always engaging Narrative magazine has reprinted "The Practice" chapter > of William Carlos Williams's autobiography in their new issue: > > http://www.narrativemagazine.com/issues/winter-2011/practice > > This is part of their "Classics" series of reprints. I believe you may > have to register to see such content; but registration is free. Narrative > is one of the brightest lights among new journals I've seen, and I do love > that they include a lot of poetry among their storytelling offerings. > Wonder if Tad Richards has submitted to them? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Sun Jan 2 15:20:12 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Russell Going's Digital Poem at Tower Journal Top 5 Pick Message-ID: <959F416C1FFD419E8328698DBAEFF9DF@MaryAnnPC> Russell Going's Digital Poem, The Children of Children Keep Coming, has been selected as a "Top 5" pick by the website Design 2 Share, which was featured last year in the NY Times. http://www.design2share.com/weekly-favs2share -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 16:31:06 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:31:06 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Modern Language Assn. Convention (in Los Angeles): poetry marathon reading Message-ID: Will anyone else on this list be here for the MLA next weekend? Be reading elsewhere??? This is going on at a theatre called ArtShare. *7:30 - 8:30* Aaron Kunin Duriel Harris Vanessa Place Jonathan Skinner Andrew Maxwell Rodrigo Toscano Calvin Bedient Joshua Clover Molly Bendall Barrett Watten Catherine Daly Brent Cunningham Ara Shirinyan Carla Harryman Deborah Meadows Clay Banes David Lloyd Dawn Lundy Douglas Kearney Ronaldo Wilson *8:30-9:30* Jane Sprague Eleni Stecopoulos Allison Carter Cathy Park Hong Amanda Ackerman David Lau Amina Cain Grant Jenkins Anna Joy Springer James Meetze Bibiana Maltos Marcella Durand Janice Lee Andy Fitch Linda Lay Timothy Yu Matias Viegener Josef Horaceck Harold Abramowitz Jena Osman *9:30-10:30* David Shock Ted Pearson Roc?o Carlos Michael Hennessey Aaron Belz Julia Bloch Guy Bennett Johanna Drucker Janet Sarbanes Patrick Durgin Mathew Timmons K. Lorraine Graham Joseph Mosconi Kit Robinson Will Alexander Lisa Sewell Rae Armantrout Noura Wedell Rom?n Luj?n John Pluecker *10:30-11:30* Stuart Krimko Therese Bachand Daniel Tiffany John Tranter Diane Ward Sarah Dowling Teresa Carmody Susan Schultz Christine Wertheim William Mohr -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 03:39:03 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 00:39:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Third Colour of the Nigerian Flag Message-ID: "Perhaps, the ?third? colour of the Nigerian flag is derived from the confusion or resistance to the iterated sameness that tries to assimilate our conflicting values and ideas of ?Nigerianness.? Perhaps the ?third? colour of the Nigerian flag has always been there and it only requires the eyes of a little girl to tell us that what we see as the iterated Green is not ?green? at all, that our iterated sameness is a superficial analysis in Gestalt Psychology. Our instant reaction, as those whose brains have been formatted by the patria, is to cancel out the idea of the three colours of the Nigerian flag as an error!" Read the full text of 'The "Third" Colour of the Nigerian Flag'at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5660377-184/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 04:15:43 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:15:43 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Georges Bataille in poetry Message-ID: *?le neant n?est que moi-meme??* * * the nothingness is Selfsame me the universe is tomb to me the sun is solely death my eyes bling lightning hearts the sky there thunderstorms ignites in me at the bottom of abysm immensity of universe is death *Georges Bataille* Published in Hyperion: On the Future of Aesthetics, a web publication of The Nietzsche Circle: www.nietzschecircle.com, Volume III, issue 4, December 2008 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 21:31:44 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 02:31:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] [New-Poetry Wom-po message crazed In-Reply-To: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Amy: I know how super busy you are, but I am suddenly receiving multiple, multiple copies of every Wom-po message that goes out. My inbox keeps swelling--it's kind of like the brooms in the sorcerer's apprentice. If it is easier, just unsubscribe me from Wom-po and I'll join up myself again in a week or so--and thanks--I just wanted to let you know about this, hoping I'm not the only one with this weird problem. Happy New Year and thanks! Sheila Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:15:17 -0800 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU CC: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Chax Press toward 2011 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: charles alexander Dear Poetry Readers and Friends of Chax Press: Poetry, for me, is a community of writers, readers, ideas, words, shapes, and sounds arranged or just appearing in space and time in such a way as to invite others to enter, to open the spaces words occupy. In this way, the work of Chax Press is part of this poetic endeavor, as well as a practice that expands and deepens the community of contemporary literature. Chax is once again binding up a year rich in print. Our hand bound volume of Drum Hadley?s poems has been published, and pages of words and machine images by Nico Vassilakis are on the Vandercook Press as I write this. We are about to complete a year with lots of good news, like our summer Book Arts Workshop, and some fourteen book publications, including books by Alice Notley, Leslie Scalapino, Charles Olson, Tenney Nathanson, Jonathan Stalling, and many more. We hope for a satisfying end of one year and beginning of the next, the kind that makes you fold the covers shut and sigh in satisfaction. Our story keeps unfolding thanks to your contributions. Community and innovation are our central threads, and the language we use to connect the Chax community to all our friends is both of the streets and land and of the highest spire. Our upcoming books, that you will help to print with your contribution, come from diverse voices: Nico Vassilakis, Will Alexander, Eileen Myles, Andrew Levy, Linh Dinh, Jennifer Bartlett, Robert Mittenthal, Maureen Owen, and others that together form a distinct, unreplicated corps of authors whose work needs to be present in our time. At Chax, we fill a need for work that challenges, thrills, and brings together our longtime readers and those new to our community. To keep our downtown studio full of deckled edges, smoothly running rollers, and deftly stitching fingers, as well as new paperback books of poetry flying out of our studio and into the minds of readers, we rely on a wide variety of sources, such as grants, book sales, and contributions from you. Increasingly individual contributions, in a time of dwindling government support, perform a large and heartwarming role in our work in the fields of poetry and the book arts. We ask that you prioritize a donation to Chax Press this year. No amount of giving is too small or too large. For every gift over $60, we will even send you one of our earliest books, chosen specifically with you in mind. Friends through the computer (facebook, email, etc) last year were an important part of what we did, and how we were able to fund our work. You gave gifts ranging from $6 to $100. If each of you gave even $10, we'd be in good shape, the books would keep coming. We hope you will give $10 or more now. It will do wonders. But any amount you can give is most welcome. We thank you and honor you with our work. Chax Press is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) charitable organization, and your contribution is tax deductible. To donate via paypal, go to http://chax.org/donate.htm Or send a check to Chax Press, 411 N 7th Ave Ste 103, Tucson, AZ 85705 Charles Alexander, Executive Director Chax Presscharles alexanderchax at theriver.com chax press / poetry & the book arts411 n seventh ave ste 103 / tucson, az 85705-8388 presenting Erica Hunt and Marty Ehrlich on Jan 29 2011 attending AWP in February 2011 DONATE TO CHAX PRESS at http://chax.org/donate.htm *********VIDA: Women in Literary Arts+ Interviews Amy's Alias+ http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgreendunf at aol.com Tue Jan 4 22:10:01 2011 From: mgreendunf at aol.com (Marie Gauthier) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:10:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD7A9D2D59D0A8-19C4-9330@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> My good friend Lea broke her foot, can't attend AWP, and so has half a table up for grabs [you'll get in free for the price of half] [I don't really know what this means, but you can ask Lea.] and her former roommate at the Marriott now needs a roommate. If anyone is interested, you can contact Lea at lea at leabanks.com. Thanks so much! Marie Gauthier A View from the Potholes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 04:54:17 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:54:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Message-ID: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 08:17:02 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:17:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] I interview Lidia Vianu Message-ID: Could anybody please tell me if apostrophes and inverted commas are all right? Lidia has this problem, while I do not. Thanks. http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=268 or under Reviews, see Vianu, Lidia: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poemreviews -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Wed Jan 5 08:27:38 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 08:27:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jesse Glass's Digital Poem Archived at University of Maryland Message-ID: <3AD5803B017D4810A5051DFC90D63D3B@MaryAnnPC> The Curator of Literary Manuscripts at the University of Maryland requested Jesse Glass's digital poem, "Having Abandoned the Vehicular Eye," Congratulations Jesse Glass ! The poem can be viewed at The Tower Journal, http://www.towerjournal.com Mary Ann Sullivan The Tower Journal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 08:40:35 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:40:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jesse Glass's Digital Poem Archived at University of Maryland In-Reply-To: <3AD5803B017D4810A5051DFC90D63D3B@MaryAnnPC> References: <3AD5803B017D4810A5051DFC90D63D3B@MaryAnnPC> Message-ID: Yes, I did enjoy the video-composition, and I congratulated Jesse, too. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:27 PM, SULLIVAN wrote: > The Curator of Literary Manuscripts at the University of Maryland > requested Jesse Glass's digital poem, "Having Abandoned the Vehicular Eye," > Congratulations Jesse Glass ! The poem can be viewed at The Tower Journal, > http://www.towerjournal.com > > Mary Ann Sullivan > The Tower Journal > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Jan 5 11:10:05 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:10:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I interview Lidia Vianu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As I look at it, no. You need to use html code -- ' for apostrophe " for quotation mark (American style - double apostrophe) On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Could anybody please tell me if apostrophes and inverted commas are all > right? Lidia has this problem, while I do not. Thanks. > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=268 > > or under Reviews, see Vianu, Lidia: > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poemreviews > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jan 5 11:43:31 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:43:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Jan 5 11:52:52 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 11:52:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> I second that. It looks like Spokeo is just pulling info from other places AND it is wildly inaccurate. For example, it shows my husband three times, one where he is ten years older than he actually is and has him living with his mother, another time, his middle name is incorrect and he's shown as owner of a house he sold back in 1993. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:43 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 12:10:45 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:10:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] [New-Poetry Wom-po message crazed In-Reply-To: References: <345100.10219.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <575478.13596.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Sheila, A few people were getting multiple messages from one person, but that problem was on the sender's end - not WOMPO's. Maybe try unsubscribing and then subscribing again. Best, Amy ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** ________________________________ From: sheila black To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 9:31:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [New-Poetry Wom-po message crazed Hi Amy: I know how super busy you are, but I am suddenly receiving multiple, multiple copies of every Wom-po message that goes out. My inbox keeps swelling--it's kind of like the brooms in the sorcerer's apprentice. If it is easier, just unsubscribe me from Wom-po and I'll join up myself again in a week or so--and thanks--I just wanted to let you know about this, hoping I'm not the only one with this weird problem. Happy New Year and thanks! Sheila ________________________________ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:15:17 -0800 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU CC: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Chax Press toward 2011 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: charles alexander Dear Poetry Readers and Friends of Chax Press: Poetry, for me, is a community of writers, readers, ideas, words, shapes, and sounds arranged or just appearing in space and time in such a way as to invite others to enter, to open the spaces words occupy. In this way, the work of Chax Press is part of this poetic endeavor, as well as a practice that expands and deepens the community of contemporary literature. Chax is once again binding up a year rich in print. Our hand bound volume of Drum Hadley?s poems has been published, and pages of words and machine images by Nico Vassilakis are on the Vandercook Press as I write this. We are about to complete a year with lots of good news, like our summer Book Arts Workshop, and some fourteen book publications, including books by Alice Notley, Leslie Scalapino, Charles Olson, Tenney Nathanson, Jonathan Stalling, and many more. We hope for a satisfying end of one year and beginning of the next, the kind that makes you fold the covers shut and sigh in satisfaction. Our story keeps unfolding thanks to your contributions. Community and innovation are our central threads, and the language we use to connect the Chax community to all our friends is both of the streets and land and of the highest spire. Our upcoming books, that you will help to print with your contribution, come from diverse voices: Nico Vassilakis, Will Alexander, Eileen Myles, Andrew Levy, Linh Dinh, Jennifer Bartlett, Robert Mittenthal, Maureen Owen, and others that together form a distinct, unreplicated corps of authors whose work needs to be present in our time. At Chax, we fill a need for work that challenges, thrills, and brings together our longtime readers and those new to our community. To keep our downtown studio full of deckled edges, smoothly running rollers, and deftly stitching fingers, as well as new paperback books of poetry flying out of our studio and into the minds of readers, we rely on a wide variety of sources, such as grants, book sales, and contributions from you. Increasingly individual contributions, in a time of dwindling government support, perform a large and heartwarming role in our work in the fields of poetry and the book arts. We ask that you prioritize a donation to Chax Press this year. No amount of giving is too small or too large. For every gift over $60, we will even send you one of our earliest books, chosen specifically with you in mind. Friends through the computer (facebook, email, etc) last year were an important part of what we did, and how we were able to fund our work. You gave gifts ranging from $6 to $100. If each of you gave even $10, we'd be in good shape, the books would keep coming. We hope you will give $10 or more now. It will do wonders. But any amount you can give is most welcome. We thank you and honor you with our work. Chax Press is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) charitable organization, and your contribution is tax deductible. To donate via paypal, go to http://chax.org/donate.htm Or send a check to Chax Press, 411 N 7th Ave Ste 103, Tucson, AZ 85705 Charles Alexander, Executive Director Chax Press charles alexander chax at theriver.com chax press / poetry & the book arts 411 n seventh ave ste 103 / tucson, az 85705-8388 presenting Erica Hunt and Marty Ehrlich on Jan 29 2011 attending AWP in February 2011 DONATE TO CHAX PRESS at http://chax.org/donate.htm ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 12:24:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:24:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] I interview Lidia Vianu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Tad, by "no" do you mean that there are _no_ problems? Your dummy friend, anny On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > As I look at it, no. You need to use html code -- > > ' for apostrophe > > " for quotation mark (American style - double apostrophe) > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> Could anybody please tell me if apostrophes and inverted commas are all >> right? Lidia has this problem, while I do not. Thanks. >> >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=268 >> >> or under Reviews, see Vianu, Lidia: >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poemreviews >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Jan 5 12:41:17 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:41:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I interview Lidia Vianu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not as clear as I ought to have been. I meant no it's not all right. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Thanks Tad, by "no" do you mean that there are _no_ problems? > Your dummy friend, anny > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> As I look at it, no. You need to use html code -- >> >> ' for apostrophe >> >> " for quotation mark (American style - double apostrophe) >> >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Could anybody please tell me if apostrophes and inverted commas are all >>> right? Lidia has this problem, while I do not. Thanks. >>> >>> >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=268 >>> >>> or under Reviews, see Vianu, Lidia: >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poemreviews >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 12:46:54 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:46:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <899383.9041.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, I checked mine and most of the information was accurate since I live in a high-rise bldg. and street address is right.? However, I moved to a different apt. and changed my telephone number--only use a cell now--so they (whoever they are) do not have that (yet), and I have not put any new info online as far as I know. Also, to have yourself removed from their list, you have to have a special url that you get from joining their service and paying them 3 bucks. They do seem to have multiple ways of getting their pound of flesh.? Since I already have a twin on this poetics list, I am a little sensitive about what information is out there on the Internet, although I am happy my twin on the list is in the same career :) and that she says interesting things.? Sheila Elizabeth Black? ? ?Sheila Black --- On Wed, 1/5/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 10:43 AM Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. ?Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. ?So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. ?Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. ?They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. ?No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ? ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From semanticsblack at yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 12:46:54 2011 From: semanticsblack at yahoo.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:46:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <899383.9041.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, I checked mine and most of the information was accurate since I live in a high-rise bldg. and street address is right.? However, I moved to a different apt. and changed my telephone number--only use a cell now--so they (whoever they are) do not have that (yet), and I have not put any new info online as far as I know. Also, to have yourself removed from their list, you have to have a special url that you get from joining their service and paying them 3 bucks. They do seem to have multiple ways of getting their pound of flesh.? Since I already have a twin on this poetics list, I am a little sensitive about what information is out there on the Internet, although I am happy my twin on the list is in the same career :) and that she says interesting things.? Sheila Elizabeth Black? ? ?Sheila Black --- On Wed, 1/5/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 10:43 AM Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. ?Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. ?So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. ?Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. ?They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. ?No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ? ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 13:01:45 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:01:45 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sure you've got the right husband? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Millicent wrote: > I second that. It looks like Spokeo is just pulling info from other places > AND it is wildly inaccurate. For example, it shows my husband three times, > one where he is ten years older than he actually is and has him living with > his mother, another time, his middle name is incorrect and he's shown as > owner of a house he sold back in 1993. > > > Millicent > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:43 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo > > Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: > > http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp > > One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up > info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how > to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, > if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's > because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your > phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an > unlisted number I suppose. > > Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site > will accomplish much. > > Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little > testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, > absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and > have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email > address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least > in the page that you can access without paying. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online > USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on > FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can > remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of > your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to > remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). > > -- > Anny Ballardini > > = > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Jan 5 13:39:17 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:39:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: References: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD7B1EFE617B13-10C0-854@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> I don't know. He's got a lot of other wives and houses listed in Spokeo! Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Sure you've got the right husband? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Millicent wrote: I second that. It looks like Spokeo is just pulling info from other places AND it is wildly inaccurate. For example, it shows my husband three times, one where he is ten years older than he actually is and has him living with his mother, another time, his middle name is incorrect and he's shown as owner of a house he sold back in 1993. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:43 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 16:17:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:17:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Directly from Australia and New Zealand Message-ID: All Together Now: A Digital Bridge for Auckland and Sydney Kia Kotahi R?: He Arawhata Ipurangi m? Tamaki Makau Rau me Poih?kena March-September 2010 ...http://www.nzepc.auckland.ac.nz/features/home&away/video-sydney.asp See More *Home & Away 2010 - NZEPC * www.nzepc.auckland.ac.nz HOME & AWAY Reading at U Sydney, 1 September 2010, 7-9 pm (POSTER). Featuring Ken Bolton, Pam Brown, Janet Charman, Martin Edmond, Michael Farrell ,Jeffrey Paparoa Holman, David Howard, Cath Kenneally, Selina Tusitala Marsh, Peter Minter, Vivienne Plumb, Lisa Samuels, Amanda Stewart, Mark Young. MC Jill Jones Venue: Woolley Common Room, Woolley Building, University of Sydney HOME & AWAY Reading at UTS, 2 September 2010, 7-9 pm (POSTER). Featuring Michelle Cahill, Jen Crawford, Brian Flaherty, Martin Harrison, Jill Jones, Michele Leggott, Kate Lilley, John Newton, Chris Price, Nigel Roberts, Jack Ross, Helen Sword, John Tranterand Adrian Wiggins. MC Ken Bolton Venue: The Performance Space, Bon Marche Building, UTS Broadway Campus -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 5 16:37:15 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 16:37:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: <8CD7B1EFE617B13-10C0-854@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7B1EFE617B13-10C0-854@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD7B37DAC41BDB-77C-2F47@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Why is it that our virtual lives have all the fun? -----Original Message----- From: Millicent To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:39 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo I don't know. He's got a lot of other wives and houses listed in Spokeo! Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:01 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Sure you've got the right husband? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Millicent wrote: I second that. It looks like Spokeo is just pulling info from other places AND it is wildly inaccurate. For example, it shows my husband three times, one where he is ten years older than he actually is and has him living with his mother, another time, his middle name is incorrect and he's shown as owner of a house he sold back in 1993. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:43 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an unlisted number I suppose. Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site will accomplish much. Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least in the page that you can access without paying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). -- Anny Ballardini = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 5 16:40:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 16:40:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Janine Pommy Vega obit Message-ID: <8CD7B3847FC207D-77C-2FD3@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/arts/03vega.html Janine Pommy Vega, a poet and intimate of the Beat generation luminaries Allen Ginsberg and Peter Orlovsky whose lifelong quest for transcendence took her to San Francisco in the 1960s and on a pilgrimage to neolithic goddess-worship sites in the 1980s, died on Dec. 23 at her home in Willow, N.Y. She was 68. = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 5 17:10:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:10:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cold Front weighs in with 2010 picks... Message-ID: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> ?These genres these borders these false distinctions / are where we stay at / in freedom?s way.? ?Thomas Sayers Ellis, ?As Segregation, As Us? The poets of 2010 held genre-smashing visions, refreshing collisions with strangeness, communications from beyond. Here are our editorial picks for the Top 30 Poetry Books of 2010 http://coldfrontmag.com/category/news -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jan 5 17:49:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:49:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cold Front weighs in with 2010 picks... In-Reply-To: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D24F579.5010509@nut-n-but.net> Thirty isn't enough. I want to be excluded from a list of the /thousand/ best poetry books of 2011! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jan 5 17:58:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:58:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cold Front weighs in with 2010 picks... In-Reply-To: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D24F7AA.7090306@nut-n-but.net> On 1/5/2011 5:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > ?These genres these borders these false distinctions / are where we > stay at / in freedom?s way.? ?Thomas Sayers Ellis, ?As Segregation, As Us? > The poets of 2010 held genre-smashing visions, refreshing collisions > with strangeness, communications from beyond. Here are our editorial > picks for the *Top 30 Poetry Books of 2010* > http://coldfrontmag.com/category/news Nothing against the thirty Wilshberian picks, but I have to say the guy's idea of "genre-smashing vision" is a lot different from mine. But, hey, he likes Issa (one of whose poems he has on another list of his), so I won't put him on my Enemies of Poetry List. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jan 5 18:03:58 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:03:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Mathepoetic Equivalent of the Smiley Face In-Reply-To: <4D24F579.5010509@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> <4D24F579.5010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D24F8DE.6020203@nut-n-but.net> It's at. http://poeticks.com. I'm embarrassed by it, but I thought I should reveal it to the world, anyway. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jan 5 18:05:58 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:05:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cold Front weighs in with 2010 picks... In-Reply-To: <4D24F579.5010509@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> <4D24F579.5010509@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D24F956.6040906@nut-n-but.net> Correction: > Thirty isn't enough. I want to be excluded from a list of the > /thousand/ best poetry books of 20/10/! In 2011 I'll be trying to be > excluded from a list of the /two/ thousand best poetry books. > > --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jan 5 19:52:26 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:52:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cold Front weighs in with 2010 picks... In-Reply-To: <4D24F7AA.7090306@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD7B3C715421EA-77C-36ED@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> <4D24F7AA.7090306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <13EEDAEA-AEF4-4384-B062-8B144980D379@ripon.edu> My own tally would be: of the 30 books noted, I've read just three (by Simic, Hayes, and Monson). Of the remaining 27 poets, I believe I have read at least some work by just 13 of them. For a "best of" list this lengthy, that strikes me as pretty amazing--that I have not even heard of nearly half. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 5, 2011, at 5:58 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/5/2011 5:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> ?These genres these borders these false distinctions / are where we stay at / in freedom?s way.? ?Thomas Sayers Ellis, ?As Segregation, As Us? >> The poets of 2010 held genre-smashing visions, refreshing collisions with strangeness, communications from beyond. Here are our editorial picks for the Top 30 Poetry Books of 2010 >> >> http://coldfrontmag.com/category/news > > Nothing against the thirty Wilshberian picks, but I have to say the guy's idea of "genre-smashing vision" is a lot different from mine. But, hey, he likes Issa (one of whose poems he has on another list of his), so I won't put him on my Enemies of Poetry List. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 00:14:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:14:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] the end of the book Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/garden/06books.html?_r=1&hp Thatcher Wine wraps books in jackets of his own design for libraries he creates for clients. More Photos ? By PENELOPE GREEN -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 10:59:19 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 16:59:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] and the PlayBook Message-ID: http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/rim-preps-playbook-to-rival-ipad-android-tablets/?ref=personaltech The PlayBook is designed to completely integrate and synchronize with BlackBerry devices. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 13:12:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:12:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo In-Reply-To: <8CD7B37DAC41BDB-77C-2F47@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7B10204F74E5-155C-57F@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7B1EFE617B13-10C0-854@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7B37DAC41BDB-77C-2F47@webmail-m054.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Speak for yourself, Finnegan. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:37 PM, wrote: > Why is it that our virtual lives have all the fun? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Millicent > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:39 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo > > I don't know. He's got a lot of other wives and houses listed in Spokeo! > > Millicent > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:01 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo > > Sure you've got the right husband? > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Millicent wrote: > >> I second that. It looks like Spokeo is just pulling info from other >> places AND it is wildly inaccurate. For example, it shows my husband three >> times, one where he is ten years older than he actually is and has him >> living with his mother, another time, his middle name is incorrect and he's >> shown as owner of a house he sold back in 1993. >> >> >> Millicent >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Graham >> To: NewPoetry List >> Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 8:43 am >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] passing along: Spokeo >> >> Some context on Spokeo, from Snopes: >> >> http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/spokeo.asp >> >> One thing to keep in mind is that Spokeo & similar sites just scoop up >> info that's already publically available on the web. Anyone who knows how >> to Google can already discover all this data at any time. So, for instance, >> if your photos or cell phone number from Facebook appear on Spokeo, it's >> because your privacy settings on FB allow it. Other information, like your >> phonebook listing and address, are already out there, unless you have an >> unlisted number I suppose. >> >> Thus, Snopes doesn't think that removing yourself from the Spokeo site >> will accomplish much. >> >> Another thing mentioned by Snopes that I have confirmed by a little >> testing at Spokeo is that their information can be wildly incomplete, >> absent, and/or inaccurate. They have me as unmarried, for instance, and >> have given my sister a daughter she does not have. No photos, email >> address, Facebook profile, estimated income, etc. for me, either--at least >> in the page that you can access without paying. >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> There's a site called Spokeo.com that's a new >> online USA phone book w/personal information: everything from pics you've >> posted on FB or web, your approx credit score, home value, income, age, etc. >> You can remove yourself by first searching for you on their site to find the >> URL of your page, then going to the "Privacy" button on the bottom of their >> page to remove yourself. (Copy & re-post so people are aware). >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> >> = >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 09:26:32 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:26:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] tooooooting Message-ID: I would first like to direct you to the excellent site by Karl Young that is getting more and more interesting: http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm and then to the page that talks of my work, I am so humbled that luckily Karl put me all the way down (thus scroll with your mouse, it will be for something!) towards the bottom: http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm with Karl Young's comment (finally): http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm to My Collaborators: 2. Anny Ballardini You illustrious, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jan 7 11:30:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 11:30:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] tooooooting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D273F8B.9000600@nut-n-but.net> On 1/7/2011 9:26 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I would first like to direct you to the excellent site by Karl Young > that is getting more and more interesting: > http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm > > > and then to the page that talks of my work, I am so humbled that > luckily Karl put me all the way down (thus scroll with your mouse, it > will be for something!) towards the bottom: > http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm > > > with Karl Young's comment (finally): > http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm > > > to My Collaborators: 2. Anny Ballardini > > You illustrious, > Anny I've read everything at these pages so far except the work you translated and your translation, Anny. (I won't be able to uderstand it, but will enjoy seeing it, anyway.) Nice to see you connecting with Karl. He's definitely on my list of top contemporary American poets. Even though, gosh, I don't think he's ever gotten anything into any kind of list of best poems or poetry books. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 12:01:15 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:01:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] tooooooting In-Reply-To: <4D273F8B.9000600@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D273F8B.9000600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thank you Bob. Karl Young is an "old" friend. And I agree with you, he deserves more. My best, Anny On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/7/2011 9:26 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I would first like to direct you to the excellent site by Karl Young that > is getting more and more interesting: > http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lighthom.htm > > and then to the page that talks of my work, I am so humbled that luckily > Karl put me all the way down (thus scroll with your mouse, it will be for > something!) towards the bottom: > http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm > > with Karl Young's comment (finally): > http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/TextBackHome/Volume5.htm > > to My Collaborators: 2. Anny Ballardini > > You illustrious, > Anny > > I've read everything at these pages so far except the work you translated > and your translation, Anny. (I won't be able to uderstand it, but will > enjoy seeing it, anyway.) Nice to see you connecting with Karl. He's > definitely on my list of top contemporary American poets. Even though, > gosh, I don't think he's ever gotten anything into any kind of list of best > poems or poetry books. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 15:52:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 21:52:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiskey Licks Message-ID: http://www.whiskylicks.org/ not my relative, but there is some common humor, hope you will enjoy, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 9 16:27:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:27:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting Message-ID: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> Seth Abramson. Posted: December 26, 2010 Six More Myths About the Creative Writing Master of Fine Arts http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/six-more-myths-about-the-_b_801402.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Sun Jan 9 18:13:30 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:13:30 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Glorificus Message-ID: <20110109161330.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.fa176951c5.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 9 21:21:24 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:21:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Grey Sparrow Message-ID: <8CD7E8436BF46E5-132C-1C1E2@webmail-d031.sysops.aol.com> http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/books/113045624.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aU1ccmiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU1ccmkEymU Smith's little journal, which runs to fewer than 50 pages and sells for $8.95 (and is online at www.greysparrowpress.net), was honored on Saturday with a national award when it was named best new literary journal by the Council of Editors of Learned Journals. The award was announced during the meeting of the Modern Language Association in Los Angeles. Previous winners include the Gettysburg Review, Hedgehog Review and Narrative. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 10 16:00:23 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:00:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry Message-ID: <8CD7F208837945F-6A8-72D@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/01/poetry_i_would_like_to_describ.html Poets love to define poetry. And because poetry is so difficult to define, the definitions tend to be allusive and ambiguous. And yet, I love them, because they are also wonderfully alluring. "Poetry is what gets lost in translation," Robert Frost puts it. "Poetry is a mirror which makes beautiful that which is distorted," Percy Shelley says. "Poetry is a packsack of invisible keepsakes," Carl Sandburg writes. "Breathe in experience," Muriel Rukeyser says, and then "breathe out poetry." Even Sigmund Freud, not a poet, got into the act: "Everywhere I go, I find a poet has been there before me." A poet who seems to have gotten there before many is the influential Polish minimalist Zbigniew Herbert (1924-1998), whose defiance against Nazism and Stalinism made him a post- World War II international favorite... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 10 17:41:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:41:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry In-Reply-To: <8CD7F208837945F-6A8-72D@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7F208837945F-6A8-72D@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D2B8B1A.9080109@nut-n-but.net> On 1/10/2011 4:00 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/01/poetry_i_would_like_to_describ.html > Poets love to define poetry. And because poetry is so difficult to > define, the definitions tend to be allusive and ambiguous. And yet, I > love them, because they are also wonderfully alluring. > "Poetry is what gets lost in translation," Robert Frost puts it. > "Poetry is a mirror which makes beautiful that which is distorted," > Percy Shelley says. "Poetry is a packsack of invisible keepsakes," > Carl Sandburg writes. "Breathe in experience," Muriel Rukeyser says, > and then "breathe out poetry." Even Sigmund Freud, not a poet, got > into the act: "Everywhere I go, I find a poet has been there before me." > A poet who seems to have gotten there before many is the influential > Polish minimalist Zbigniew Herbert (1924-1998), whose defiance against > Nazism and Stalinism made him a post- World War II international > favorite... For some reason the above inspired me to coin another new word: "disfinition." The opposite of "definition." By the way, my "/Prelimary Taxonomy of Poetry/" is till available for free to anyone seeing this who e.mails me an address to send a copy to. It contains a definition of poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 20:03:46 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:03:46 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: just because MFA programs outnumber PhD programs, in number, growth, and size, doesn't mean they are meaningfully considered to be terminal degrees On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > Seth Abramson. > Posted: December 26, 2010 > Six More Myths About the Creative Writing Master of Fine Arts > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/six-more-myths-about-the-_b_801402.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 10 21:30:30 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:30:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: <8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> I don't follow these issues closely, but isn't the job picture equally bleak for PhDs in English and the other Humanities? The New York Times (yesterday) ran a piece on the overproduction of JDs and problem recently minted lawyers (even from top schools) are having landing work in the field. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 8:03 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting just because MFA programs outnumber PhD programs, in number, growth, and size, doesn't mean they are meaningfully considered to be terminal degrees On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 1:27 PM, wrote: Seth Abramson. Posted: December 26, 2010 Six More Myths About the Creative Writing Master of Fine Arts http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/six-more-myths-about-the-_b_801402.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 00:44:25 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:44:25 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: <8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: phds in creative writing are preferred for "terminal degree" creative writing jobs; phds in (literature) with a creative book (as well as the critical publication one earns ramping up to the phd) are also preferred over mfas -- perhaps over all other phds, too PhD in Comp vs MFA writing is a comparison that's not true to life On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 6:30 PM, wrote: > I don't follow these issues closely, but isn't the job picture equally > bleak for PhDs in English and the other Humanities? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jan 11 11:24:53 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:24:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Why I'm Not Rich Message-ID: <865506.84589.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Interviewed by Derek Alger @ PIF -- http://www.pifmagazine.com/2011/01/amy-king/ ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 11:30:43 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:30:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why I'm Not Rich In-Reply-To: <865506.84589.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <865506.84589.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great interview Amy! Sheila Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:24:53 -0800 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Why I'm Not Rich Interviewed by Derek Alger @ PIF -- http://www.pifmagazine.com/2011/01/amy-king/ ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jan 11 14:55:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:55:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com><8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD7FE0AD22B64F-8B8-764@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> Seth Abramson seems to feel that PhD option is somewhat static while the MFA program continues to flourish... 6. Doctoral programs in creative writing are overtaking MFA programs as the sole terminal degrees in the field. The number of doctoral programs in creative writing (or English Literature doctorates with the option of a creative dissertation) has held steady in the mid-thirties for more than a decade. Meanwhile, the ranks of low- and full-residency MFA programs have swelled: While there were approximately 75 such programs in 1996, there are now more than twice that number. If present trends hold, it's unlikely that the Ph.D. in Creative Writing (or Ph.D. in English with Creative Dissertation) will become the sole terminal degree in the field anytime within the next twenty-five years. Instead, the two degrees will remain co-terminal well into the foreseeable future. -- On the face of it, without any first hand knowledge of either degree program, I've always wondered what a PhD in Creative Writing could offer over the MFA option? If one is intent on being a creative artist, it almost seems stodgy and superfluous to pursue the field/craft via a PhD program. It seems to just another pedagogical layer to a field that is supposed to based on artistic practice. Or, to put it another way, if art is instrumental and not scholarly, what other instrumentalities can be learned in a PhD course of study that wouldn't have been introduced in MFA program? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:44 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting phds in creative writing are preferred for "terminal degree" creative writing jobs; phds in (literature) with a creative book (as well as the critical publication one earns ramping up to the phd) are also preferred over mfas -- perhaps over all other phds, too PhD in Comp vs MFA writing is a comparison that's not true to life On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 6:30 PM, wrote: I don't follow these issues closely, but isn't the job picture equally bleak for PhDs in English and the other Humanities? _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 20:47:00 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:47:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: <8CD7FE0AD22B64F-8B8-764@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7FE0AD22B64F-8B8-764@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: See, I thing he's got it dead wrong. The PhD is the only degree appealing to especially state unis in the American West (and elsewhere) that have a state congress-assigned mandate to have PhDs -- no grad students -- teaching at the college level. the real crux of the matter is this is the one area in which cw programs actually precede studio arts: you cannot be hired into a top-tier uni, and now, even the *very lesser ones* such as the Cal state system in writing -- without a PhD, in SOMETHING, ANYTHING. Accomplishment? The exception -- Charles Bernstein has a job -- proves the rule. It is even more perverse in business and technical writing, where there are PhDs now but weren't 15 years ago: now, they PREFER people with NO business or technical writing experience and a PhD to any other person, no matter how -- whatever. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, wrote: > Seth Abramson seems to feel that PhD option is somewhat static while the > MFA program continues to flourish... > > *6. Doctoral programs in creative writing are overtaking MFA programs as > the sole terminal degrees in the field*. The number of doctoral programs > in creative writing (or English Literature doctorates with the option of a > creative dissertation) has held steady in the mid-thirties for more than a > decade. Meanwhile, the ranks of low- and full-residency MFA programs have > swelled: While there were approximately 75 such programs in 1996, there are > now more than twice that number. If present trends hold, it's unlikely that > the Ph.D. in Creative Writing (or Ph.D. in English with Creative > Dissertation) will become the sole terminal degree in the field anytime > within the next twenty-five years. Instead, the two degrees will remain > co-terminal well into the foreseeable future. > > -- > On the face of it, without any first hand knowledge of either degree > program, I've always wondered what a PhD in Creative Writing could offer > over the MFA option? If one is intent on being a creative artist, it almost > seems stodgy and superfluous to pursue the field/craft via a PhD program. It > seems to just another pedagogical layer to a field that is supposed to based > on artistic practice. Or, to put it another way, if art is instrumental and > not scholarly, what other instrumentalities can be learned in a PhD course > of study that wouldn't have been introduced in MFA program? > Finnegan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Tue Jan 11 20:53:36 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:53:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting In-Reply-To: References: <8CD7E5B1CE03058-1A38-290DB@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com><8CD7F4E721BD5D2-166C-6216@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><8CD7F4EA68F983B-166C-626A@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><8CD7FE0AD22B64F-8B8-764@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8012A91E9C0C-1C18-35CF@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> I won't mention a name but a wonderful creative writing instructor of mine in grad school had an MFA and was told that to be hired FT/tenure, he would need a PhD. So, he looked into it and psychology was the fastest route (with no language requirements). Two years later he had the PhD and was offered the job in the English dept. No one has ever questioned what "type" of PhD he has and life continued. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:47 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA mythbusting See, I thing he's got it dead wrong. The PhD is the only degree appealing to especially state unis in the American West (and elsewhere) that have a state congress-assigned mandate to have PhDs -- no grad students -- teaching at the college level. the real crux of the matter is this is the one area in which cw programs actually precede studio arts: you cannot be hired into a top-tier uni, and now, even the *very lesser ones* such as the Cal state system in writing -- without a PhD, in SOMETHING, ANYTHING. Accomplishment? The exception -- Charles Bernstein has a job -- proves the rule. It is even more perverse in business and technical writing, where there are PhDs now but weren't 15 years ago: now, they PREFER people with NO business or technical writing experience and a PhD to any other person, no matter how -- whatever. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, wrote: Seth Abramson seems to feel that PhD option is somewhat static while the MFA program continues to flourish... 6. Doctoral programs in creative writing are overtaking MFA programs as the sole terminal degrees in the field. The number of doctoral programs in creative writing (or English Literature doctorates with the option of a creative dissertation) has held steady in the mid-thirties for more than a decade. Meanwhile, the ranks of low- and full-residency MFA programs have swelled: While there were approximately 75 such programs in 1996, there are now more than twice that number. If present trends hold, it's unlikely that the Ph.D. in Creative Writing (or Ph.D. in English with Creative Dissertation) will become the sole terminal degree in the field anytime within the next twenty-five years. Instead, the two degrees will remain co-terminal well into the foreseeable future. -- On the face of it, without any first hand knowledge of either degree program, I've always wondered what a PhD in Creative Writing could offer over the MFA option? If one is intent on being a creative artist, it almost seems stodgy and superfluous to pursue the field/craft via a PhD program. It seems to just another pedagogical layer to a field that is supposed to based on artistic practice. Or, to put it another way, if art is instrumental and not scholarly, what other instrumentalities can be learned in a PhD course of study that wouldn't have been introduced in MFA program? Finnegan _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jan 11 21:59:26 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:59:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gray Jacobik close reading Hardy on MQR blog Message-ID: <8CD801BDB42AA24-C9C-6F32@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Gray Jacobik is blogging at Michigan Quarterly Review, a close reading of Thomas Hardy's "Neutral Tones," http://www.michiganquarterlyreview.com/category/blog/ / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jan 11 22:19:59 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:19:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] one-half of Wilshberia reviewed in NYTimes Book Review In-Reply-To: <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> References: <6c957.1bb15718.3a398b73@cs.com><4D0901A9.3010806@nut-n-but.net><4D0926EA.2010602@nut-n-but.net> <4D09FBF3.4080501@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD801EBA1574F7-C9C-72B7@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/books/review/Orr-t.html?_r=1&ref=richardwilbur Richard Wilbur (born in 1921) has been for decades a Grand Old Man of American poetry, and he?s spent most of his career being alternately praised and condemned for the same three things. / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 12 11:58:42 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:58:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Osmond channels dada poet Hugo Ball In-Reply-To: <8CD8018BBD02FEB-C9C-6ACF@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD621C576ECD8D-138C-FB09@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <8CD6776617934A3-79C-E0E8@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <8CD69CD5BC48C5F-C30-EBDB@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4D4BB1A983-166C-60A5@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7FD87DC1072A-1244-19D7@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8018BBD02FEB-C9C-6ACF@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD80911A09E42C-EF8-14952@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> I had heard a MP3 recording of Marie Osmond's reading of the "Karawame" but I'd never seen the actual video segment from Ripley's Believe or Not... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2743717806620930030# She really seems into the segment and nails the reading, I think. Finnegan = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Jan 12 12:09:01 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:09:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frank O'Hara Message-ID: David Lehman & Mark Doty in conversation on the work of Frank O'Hara. A longish but good video here: http://philoctetes.org/Past_Programs/Our_Life_in_Poetry_Frank_OHara ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 12 12:11:45 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:11:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Niue/New Zealand, John Pule, poet, novelist, artist Message-ID: <8CD8092ED0E68EC-EF8-14D34@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Creativity on a grand scale celebrates Pule's work Margaret Christensen | 13th January 2011 Hauaga: The Art of John Pule Edited by Nicholas Thomas, Otago University Press, $125 Hauaga (Arrivals) celebrates the show at Wellington's City Gallery of Niuean artist, poet and novelist John Pule. If the book had legs it would make a coffee table in itself but it is much more than those words imply. http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/life-style/news/creativity-on-a-grand-scale-celebrates-pules-work/3936033/ The press' link... http://www.otago.ac.nz/press/booksauthors/2009/hauaga%20the%20art%20of%20John%20Pule.html Some other images... http://www.artnet.com/artist/424876256/john-pule.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 12 12:22:29 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:22:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Niue/New Zealand, John Pule, poet, novelist, artist In-Reply-To: <8CD8092ED0E68EC-EF8-14D34@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8092ED0E68EC-EF8-14D34@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD80946C8544B5-1288-92EB1@angweb-usm022.sysops.aol.com> Better link to work... http://www.art-newzealand.com/Issue99/Pule.htm -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 12:11 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Niue/New Zealand, John Pule, poet, novelist, artist Creativity on a grand scale celebrates Pule's work Margaret Christensen | 13th January 2011 Hauaga: The Art of John Pule Edited by Nicholas Thomas, Otago University Press, $125 Hauaga (Arrivals) celebrates the show at Wellington's City Gallery of Niuean artist, poet and novelist John Pule. If the book had legs it would make a coffee table in itself but it is much more than those words imply. http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/life-style/news/creativity-on-a-grand-scale-celebrates-pules-work/3936033/ The press' link... http://www.otago.ac.nz/press/booksauthors/2009/hauaga%20the%20art%20of%20John%20Pule.html Some other images... http://www.artnet.com/artist/424876256/john-pule.html _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Jan 12 12:54:25 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Osmond channels dada poet Hugo Ball In-Reply-To: <8CD80911A09E42C-EF8-14952@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD621C576ECD8D-138C-FB09@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <8CD6776617934A3-79C-E0E8@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <8CD69CD5BC48C5F-C30-EBDB@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4D4BB1A983-166C-60A5@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7FD87DC1072A-1244-19D7@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8018BBD02FEB-C9C-6ACF@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> <8CD80911A09E42C-EF8-14952@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I liked it. On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:58 AM, wrote: > I had heard a MP3 recording of Marie Osmond's reading of the "Karawame" > but I'd never seen the actual video segment from > Ripley's Believe or Not... > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2743717806620930030# > She really seems into the segment and nails the reading, I think. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 16:41:38 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:41:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: CA Poet Laureate: wow, we're prestigious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *The application for California Poet Laureate is now open. The submission deadline is February 1, 2011.*http://www.cac.ca.gov/poetlaureate/main.php *If you are a poet, I encourage you to nominate yourself. I also encourage all of you to nominate the amazing poets in California!* *California's poets are absolutely among the most prestigious in the nation. The California Poet Laureate is a Governor's appointee. We now have a new Governor, and it is also time to begin the selection process for the next California Poet Laureate. The mission of the California Poet Laureate is to spread the art of poetry from classrooms to boardrooms across the state, to inspire an emerging generation of literary artists, and to educate all Californians about the many poets and authors who have influenced our great state through creative literary expression.* *I look forward to reading your nominations!* Kristin Margolis Literary Arts Specialist California Arts Council * * -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 12 18:41:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:41:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: CA Poet Laureate: wow, we're prestigious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD80C94DE42778-11D4-10431B@Webmail-m105.sysops.aol.com> Ode to Bankruptcy? -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 4:41 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: CA Poet Laureate: wow, we're prestigious The application for California Poet Laureate is now open. The submission deadline is February 1, 2011.http://www.cac.ca.gov/poetlaureate/main.php If you are a poet, I encourage you to nominate yourself. I also encourage all of you to nominate the amazing poets in California! California's poets are absolutely among the most prestigious in the nation. The California Poet Laureate is a Governor's appointee. We now have a new Governor, and it is also time to begin the selection process for the next California Poet Laureate. The mission of the California Poet Laureate is to spread the art of poetry from classrooms to boardrooms across the state, to inspire an emerging generation of literary artists, and to educate all Californians about the many poets and authors who have influenced our great state through creative literary expression. I look forward to reading your nominations! Kristin Margolis Literary Arts Specialist California Arts Council -- _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 12 18:43:53 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:43:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scharf on Personism Message-ID: <8CD80C9B450722D-11D4-1043B2@Webmail-m105.sysops.aol.com> http://sustainableaircraft.com/?p=698 ?Everything is in the poems,? O?Hara says at the opening of ?Personism? ?but at the risk of sounding like the poor wealthy man?s Allen Ginsberg I will write to you because I just heard that one of my fellow poets thinks that a poem of mine that can?t be got at one reading is because I was confused too. ?Now, come on. I don?t believe in god, so I don?t have to make elaborately sounded structures. ?I hate Vachel Lindsay, always have; I don?t even like rhythm, assonance, all that stuff.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jan 13 19:59:34 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:59:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Mexico, Susana Chavez found dead Message-ID: <8CD819D7188FA2E-838-2567@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com> http://newamericamedia.org/2011/01/not-one-more---susana-chavezs-death-sparks-outrage-in-juarez.php CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico ? Susana Chavez?s mutilated body was found in an abandoned house five days ago. After three days of searching, her parents recognized her in the morgue with her left hand dismembered, apparently by a saw... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jan 13 21:31:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:31:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Waits Releases Poetry To Benefit Homeless Charities Message-ID: <8CD81AA3C14F9F1-838-36D1@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com> http://www.prefixmag.com/news/tom-waits-releases-poetry-to-benefit-homeless-char/48008/ In addition to his work as a musician and actor, Tom Waits has found time to complete a collection of poetry. The book, Seeds on Hard Ground, will feature photographs by journalist Michael O'Brien alongside poems by Waits on the subject of homelessness. Ahead of the release of the full work, ANTI- Records has released a chapbook version of the poem to benefit homeless charities. The initial printing of the chapbook seems to have sold out, but there's at least an option for notification in case more are printed. The other choice is to wait for the full book, but no announcement has been made about whether any proceeds from that book will be donated. [Consequence of Sound] / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jan 14 19:30:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:30:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kelly Cherry as Virginia's 11th Poet Laureate. Message-ID: <8CD826297495938-1A3C-12B75@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2011/01/mcdonnell_names_xx_as_poet_lau.html Legislators looking for advice on governing in poetry have a new source of possible guidance. Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) announced Friday that he has appointed author Kelly Cherry as Virginia's 11th Poet Laureate. She takes the post from Claudia Emerson, who held it since 2008. Virginia has named a poet laureate since 1936. Since 1998, the position has been described in law, which instructs the governor to appoint a poet from among a list forwarded by Poetry Society of Virginia. Cherry, the author of 19 books, \ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Jan 14 22:37:27 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:37:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kelly Cherry as Virginia's 11th Poet Laureate. In-Reply-To: <8CD826297495938-1A3C-12B75@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD826297495938-1A3C-12B75@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yay for Kelly. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:30 PM, wrote: > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2011/01/mcdonnell_names_xx_as_poet_lau.html > Legislators looking for advice on governing in poetry have a new source of > possible guidance. > > Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) announced Friday that he has appointed author Kelly > Cherry as Virginia's 11th Poet Laureate. She takes the post from Claudia > Emerson, who held it since 2008. Virginia has named a poet laureate since > 1936. Since 1998, the position has been described in law, which instructs > the governor to appoint a poet from among a list forwarded by Poetry Society > of Virginia. > > Cherry, the author of 19 books, > \ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 12:09:54 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 11:09:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lost Roundup Message-ID: Lost Roundup Mu, saith the roshi. Must we be modern? Blood fills our heads, and multiculturalism goes out the window, with both the bathwater and the baby. Immigrant families kneel before the shrines of Polish saints to make amends. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jan 15 16:57:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I will arise and go now, to Boulder CO Message-ID: <8CD83164FCDFA2C-1EE0-DCB2@webmail-d060.sysops.aol.com> Innisfree Poetry Bookstore: Boulder's new poetry-only bookstore By Mathew Klickstein For the Camera Posted: 01/09/2011 09:50:25 PM MST Quaint and homey, Innisfree Poetry Bookstore and Cafe sits atop the crest of University Hill across the Sink and Buchanan's Coffee Pub. Center stage of Innisfree's cozy interior is a wooden table that acts as a potential community nexus, surrounded by walls of poetry books, from foreign to children's, with everything in between. Brian Buckley has just opened up the new store with his wife and co-proprietor Kate Hunter. He claims his new bookstore is the third poetry bookstore in the country. Read more: Innisfree Poetry Bookstore: Boulder's new poetry-only bookstore is country's third - Boulder Daily Camera http://www.dailycamera.com/books/ci_17035198#ixzz1B8vNIdA8 DailyCamera.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Sat Jan 15 21:05:15 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:05:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Poem: kill kill kill Message-ID: <20110115190515.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.fef5205f30.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:32:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:32:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Cutting-Edge Canadian Poetry & American Transcendentalism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD854CD2A370EE-18C8-66F0@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Poets House To: James Finnegan Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:00 am Subject: Cutting-Edge Canadian Poetry & American Transcendentalism Trouble viewing this message? Click here Take a Writing Class at Poets House This Winter! Master Classes Master Class with Anne Carson & Robert Currie February 19 & 20 Application due: February 4 Master Class with Kevin Young March 5 & 6 Application due: February 11 Six-Week Open-Enrollment Classes WORKshop with Priscilla Becker February 22?March 29 Writing Between the Lines with Christopher Schmidt February 23?March 30 Text, Image, Theme & Between with Jill Magi February 24?March 31 For information about these and other Poets House classes, click here. Upcoming Poets House Events North of Invention: A Festival of Canadian Poetry Leading Canadian poets at the cutting edge of contemporary practice address the history of sound poetry and performance, multilingualism, activism and other topics. Co-presented with the Kelly Writers House & funded in part by the Canada Council for the Arts. Saturday, January 22 ? 2:00pm Welcome with Charles Bernstein & Sarah Dowling ? 2:30pm A Conversation with M. NourbeSe Philip & Fred Wah ? 4:00pm A Conversation with Christian B?k & Stephen Collis ? 5:30pm A Poetry Reading with Stephen Collis, Sarah Dowling, M. NourbeSe Philip, a.rawlings & Fred Wah $10, $7 for students and seniors, free to Poets House Members Sunday, January 23 ? 1:00pm A Conversation with Jeff Derksen & Lisa Robertson ? 2:30pm A Conversation with a.rawlings & Jordan Scott ? 4:00pm A Poetry Reading with Christian B?k, Jeff Derksen, Lisa Robertson & Jordan Scott $10, $7 for students and seniors, free to Poets House Members For more information about these poets, click here. Saturday, January 29, 2:00?4:30pm The Transcendental Thread in American Poetry A Seminar with Daniela Gioseffi Poet and editor Daniela Gioseffi traces transcendentalist themes in American poetry, from Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson to Langston Hughes, June Jordan and Mary Oliver. The relevance of transcendental themes to a world of climate change and global will also be explored. Daniela Gioseffi is an American Book Award-winning author of 14 volumes of poetry and prose, including her recent book Wild Nights, Wild Nights: The Story of Emily Dickinson's "Master," Neighbor and Friend and Bridegroom. For more information, click here. $10, $7 for students and seniors, free to Poets House Members All programs take place at Poets House, 10 River Terrace (at Murray St) in Lower Manhattan, unless otherwise noted. For more information, call (212) 431-7920 or visit www.poetshouse.org. Directions are below. Poets House Hours Poets House Reading Room & The Reed Foundation Library Tuesday?Friday, 11:00am?7:00pm Saturday, 11:00am?6:00pm The Constance Laibe Hays Children's Room at Poets House Open hours: Thursday?Saturday, 11:00am?5:00pm Tiny Poets Time (for Toddlers): Thursdays, 10:00am Class trips by appointment. For details, contact Mike Romanos at (212) 431-7920, ext. 2825 or mike at poetshouse.org. Find Out What's Happening At Poets House Now! Poets House invites you to follow us on Twitter and Facebook. We'll be posting updates about upcoming events, photos of our new home in Battery Park City and more. Become a Poets House Member To become a Poets House Member or to give the gift of Membership to a family member or friend, visit www.poetshouse.org/join.htm. We look forward to welcoming you as a new member of our growing community of writers, readers, teachers, parents and poetry-lovers from around the nation and worldwide. If you would like more information about the Capital Campaign for Poets House and how you can participate, please contact Krista Manrique at krista at poetshouse.org or (212) 431-7920, ext. 2830. Directions The new Poets House is located at 10 River Terrace at the corner of Murray Street in Lower Manhattan's Battery Park City. Take the 1, 2, 3, A or C subway to Chambers Street. Walk west on Chambers Street (past West Street) all the way to its end at River Terrace. Turn left and walk two blocks south to 10 River Terrace (at the corner of River Terrace and Murray Street). The M22 bus runs along Chambers between North End Ave and the Lower East Side. The M20 bus travels from the Upper West Side and the southern tip of Battery Park City to North End Ave. The Downtown Connection , a free Lower Manhattan shuttle bus, travels to North End Ave from South Street Seaport and from Broadway along Murray Street; for more information, visit: downtownny.com Forward to a Friend Know someone who might be interested in this email? Why not forward to a friend. Poets House | 10 River Terrace, New York, NY 10282 | www.poetshouse.org | (212) 431-7920 This email was sent to jforjames at aol.com. You can unsubscribe here Replies to this message cannot be read. To notify us of an address change, please email update at poetshouse.org and specify "Update" in the subject line. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Jan 18 18:13:42 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:13:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Book of note: The H.D. Book by Robt. Duncan Message-ID: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> http://www.indiebound.org/book/9780520948020 The H.D. Book By Robert Duncan; Michael Boughn (Editor); Victor Coleman (Editor) (University of California Press, eBook, 9780520948020) Other Editions of This Title: Hardcover (January 2011) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Wed Jan 19 07:59:02 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:59:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Book of note: The H.D. Book by Robt. Duncan In-Reply-To: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A beautiful book replacing a basket of photocopies. Sometimes the world works. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:13 PM, wrote: > http://www.indiebound.org/book/9780520948020 > The H.D. Book > By Robert Duncan; Michael Boughn (Editor); Victor Coleman (Editor) > (University of California Press, eBook, 9780520948020) > Other Editions of This Title: Hardcover (January 2011) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Jan 19 08:17:25 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 08:17:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Book of note: The H.D. Book by Robt. Duncan In-Reply-To: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD85F2592149C0-B44-AC3F@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> Correct link... http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520260757 -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 6:13 pm Subject: Book of note: The H.D. Book by Robt. Duncan http://www.indiebound.org/book/9780520948020 The H.D. Book By Robert Duncan; Michael Boughn (Editor); Victor Coleman (Editor) (University of California Press, eBook, 9780520948020) Other Editions of This Title: Hardcover (January 2011) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Wed Jan 19 11:26:21 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 08:26:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] One Woman, One Vote Message-ID: "The comic woman of Nigerian politics is indeed every Nigerian woman who dares. It is understandable when men like me laugh at Sarah?s single vote, for we are free to live in the illusion of a total and comfortable male dominance, or an overwhelming ?wantedness? of men?s rule in the postcolonial Nigerian nation state. But Sarah Jubril?s single vote is not total victory for men in Nigerian politics. If anything, it is a vote that disturbs, a vote that is for the future. Men therefore laugh differently at this ?comedian:? they laugh, but are also thinking about the meaning of her presence." Read the full text of "One Woman, One Vote" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5664116-184/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jan 19 14:51:02 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:51:02 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Book of note: The H.D. Book by Robt. Duncan In-Reply-To: <8CD85F2592149C0-B44-AC3F@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD857C7B7789E6-1BCC-59F8@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> <8CD85F2592149C0-B44-AC3F@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: there's been a free .pdf of this floating around for ages, tho... I've even used it is courses (classic works of poets writing on other poets) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Wed Jan 19 19:26:24 2011 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:26:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe Birthday Celebration, Baltimore Poe House & Museum Message-ID: <03f9462e36c2ed7d230caed1481d60cc.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> The 2011 Edgar Allan Poe Birthday Celebration at Baltimore Poe House & Museum: http://www.poebicentennial.com/index.html Poe, my kin. http://eratio.blogspot.com/2004/01/edward-goreys-cover-for-tales-of_14.html e? From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Jan 19 23:44:26 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 23:44:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We have a Makar! (Cue -- white smoke) In-Reply-To: <03f9462e36c2ed7d230caed1481d60cc.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> References: <03f9462e36c2ed7d230caed1481d60cc.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: Liz Lochhead. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jan/19/liz-lochhead-makar-scotland-national-poet Amazingly enough, this means that no Scot need cringe in embarassment, in contrast to the appointments of the current and immediately previous English plorits, or the fiasco over the last but one Oxford Professorship of Poetry. Actually, Liz Lochhead seems to me just about an inevitable choice. They've picked from the older generation, over sixty, so no one born after 1950 or so is going to be too pissed off. She's not going to make too many waves, and will do the job decently. Personally, I'd rather it had gone to Tom Leonard, but hey, at least Liz Lochhead isn't a *totally* safe choice. (They might have picked ... ah, no names, no pack drill.) Then there's this: << It emerged today that she was selected by all three surviving first ministers of Scotland - the current first minister Alex Salmond and his two Labour predecessors Jack McConnell and Henry McLeish - in a private meeting last week, from a list of suggestions supplied by the Scottish Poetry Library and the government's arts advisers. >> That it's not *totally implausible that those three would be able, unprompted, even though they were chosing from a short list, to conduct a resonable and informed discussion as to who to pick ... says something. (Think Barak Obama, George W. Bush, and Bill Clinton. Hm ...) So there's hope yet. Also, *immediately* following the late Edwin Morgan as Makar is going to be a hard act at the best. Tom Leonard will still be under seventy when Liz finishes her stint in five years time, so perhaps by then ... Robin From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Jan 20 13:02:16 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:02:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] From Jezebel -- You're not imagining things... Message-ID: <37443.25430.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Where Are The Women At Highbrow Magazines? Whenever I see "best of" lists, award finalists and even table of contents, I immediately scan them to see how women fared. And I regularly complain to my husband about the lopsided male-to-female ratio in the bylines of highbrow magazines. He often tells me I am being a bit neurotic, and that women are, overall, pretty well represented. But after months and months of my informal surveys I was pretty sure I saw a pattern, so I decided to take a look at the numbers. A quick calculation of all non-cultural criticism stories in these three magazines over the past year shows that women trail men when it comes to bylines. The New Republic scored the worst, with only 13% of its stories penned by women. The Atlantic had 22% and The New Yorker (where I didn't take in account fiction or Talk of the Town, in addition to criticism) had 30% of its stories written by women. (I didn't take into account cultural criticism because that is an area in which women are generally well represented.) Over the past year, The New Republic had 138 men and 21 women listed on its tables of contents, The Atlantic had 100 men and 29 women, and The New Yorker had 170 men and 73 women. What's going on? Do I think that any individual editor or institution is inherently sexist? Not really. They all have dynamite female contributors like The Atlantic ?s Hanna Rosin (author of the magazine's widely discussed cover story "The End of Men," which was turned into a TED speech and will soon appear as book), and Sandra Tsing-Loh; The New Yorker's Jane Mayer and Ariel Levy; and The New Republic's Judith Shulevitz and Michelle Cottle. But I don't think the numbers are a matter of oversight or coincidence. There is something systemic going here. Perhaps stories that women are interested in, and therefore more likely to want to write, are just not considered serious enough for these highbrow pages? Or perhaps women are still too timid to pursue the big scoops or make the bold claims necessary to land an assignment from the editors? I'd be curious to see how these editors would explain these numbers. Are they receiving fewer pitches from women? Or do they, consciously or unconsciously, reject more pitches that come from women? And then the bigger question: Why, exactly, is this a problem? As long as these magazines put out serious, hard-hitting journalism that asks big questions and tells important stories, which they do, why should it matter who does the writing? (Even if the "who" is still mostly white men.) Well the same could have been said about the Supreme Court or generations of leading academics, some of history's most esteemed boy's clubs. As long as their output was good, why did it matter who was behind it? As an answer I think we can rely on Sonia Sotomayor's famous/infamous words about how being a "wise Latina woman" might lead her to different, and sometimes better, judicial conclusions. I can't help but imagine that there are some wise, female journalists whose life experience might lead them to different, and sometimes better, reporting. But when only about 20% of work published in some of our most serious magazines is by women, such journalists don't have a fair chance to prove that true. http://jezebel.com/5738019/where-are-the-women-at-highbrow-magazines ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 01:57:00 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 07:57:00 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reynolds Price, a Literary Voice of the South, Dies at 77 Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/books/21price.html?hp If Mr. Price shook off the burden of Faulkner, his work remained elusive despite its strong regional flavor and commitment to ?the weight and worth of the ordinary,? as the novelist Janet Burroway once put it. Mr. Price himself ventured a succinct appraisal for The Southern Review in 1978: ?It seems to me they are books about human freedom ? the limits thereof, the possibilities thereof, the impossibilities thereof.? -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Jan 21 09:58:35 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:58:35 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reynolds Price, a Literary Voice of the South, Dies at 77 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Back in the late '60s, Reynolds Price used to visit and teach at W&L in Jim Boatwright's class. Later, we'd gather out at Jim's farmhouse near Liberty Hall, the Stonehenge-like ruins, of the original academy. He was one of those people whose extraordinary intelligence couldn't help but being noticed as you talked to him, but he wasn't a pedant. He was an easy person to talk to. When I stated, with great authority, that the movie, 2001, was the greatest movie of our time, he agreed with me. He was a friend of Bruce Weber's, up in New York. Everybody laughed at Justin Adams' account of sleeping in the streets of Calcutta, after hitchhiking the Old Silk Road. ("When you arrived in Calcutta, what did you do?" "I went to sleep." "Where?" "In the street." "You felt safe?" "Well, Mr. Price, everyone was asleep." [Long silence.] "So, Justin, in the morning, what happened?" "I got up." "And, then?" "I looked around at everyone else." "And, what were they doing?" "Everyone was standing there.") The last time I saw Reynolds Price, seated, in a circle of lawn chairs, in view of the Colonnade behind him, he wore a double-breasted blue blazer, speaking to another student in animated German. RD Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 07:57:00 +0100 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Reynolds Price, a Literary Voice of the South, Dies at 77 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/books/21price.html?hp If Mr. Price shook off the burden of Faulkner, his work remained elusive despite its strong regional flavor and commitment to ?the weight and worth of the ordinary,? as the novelist Janet Burroway once put it. Mr. Price himself ventured a succinct appraisal for The Southern Review in 1978: ?It seems to me they are books about human freedom ? the limits thereof, the possibilities thereof, the impossibilities thereof.? -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Fri Jan 21 11:24:01 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:24:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Message-ID: I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. Crisman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 11:29:02 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:29:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I carry a small voice recorder and use it for all sorts of interviewing and note taking, but not for composing poetry. Sometimes when preparing for a reading I record myself, but that is mostly to get timings. I have been experimenting with speech-to-text software, which keeps getting better and easier to use, and can see a time in the future where I might make rough notes for a poem as a sound recording. Haven't done it yet. David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 ?802-989-4314 From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Fri Jan 21 11:31:03 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:31:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re: movement away from the page back to sound - of possible interest: voicealpha.wordpress.comwhalesound.wordpress.com Best, N Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Voice Alpha Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:24:01 -0800 From: ccooley at overdomain.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. Crisman _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 11:34:08 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:34:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't, but I have used live radio feed in composing a couple of poems. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording > technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the > page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound > recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. > > Crisman > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jan 21 11:35:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:35:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Best of 2010 list Message-ID: <8CD87A066C8CF13-1854-1C33@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=81355 Wait! Don't click away just because poetry appears in the title. There's still controversy! Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=81355#ixzz1BgkAbhMP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jan 21 11:59:43 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:59:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This song is for my foe Message-ID: <8CD87A3BC37CF3A-1854-232D@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> >From a SFGate best poetry books of 2010 list... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=81355 Note of this poem (addressed to WS) by Terrence Hayes from his book Lighthead... http://beatrice.com/wordpress/2010/11/18/terrance-hayes-snow-wallace-stevens/ Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Jan 21 12:12:38 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:12:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is something I've tried to do, and absolutely cannot. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I don't, but I have used live radio feed in composing > a couple of poems. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording >> technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the >> page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound >> recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. >> >> Crisman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 12:13:38 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:13:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe Birthday Celebration, Baltimore Poe House & Museum In-Reply-To: <03f9462e36c2ed7d230caed1481d60cc.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> References: <03f9462e36c2ed7d230caed1481d60cc.squirrel@webmail4.web.com> Message-ID: What a wonderful cover on your blog: a typical water-colored etching, do we know by whom? On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:26 AM, e?ratio wrote: > The 2011 Edgar Allan Poe Birthday Celebration at Baltimore Poe House & > Museum: > > http://www.poebicentennial.com/index.html > > > Poe, my kin. > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/2004/01/edward-goreys-cover-for-tales-of_14.html > > > e? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 12:14:38 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:14:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I must be really in the mood, and then there is a lot of revising to do. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > This is something I've tried to do, and absolutely cannot. > > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> I don't, but I have used live radio feed in composing >> a couple of poems. >> >> Hal >> >> "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >> suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >> how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >> >> --E. M. Cioran >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: >> >>> I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording >>> technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the >>> page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound >>> recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. >>> >>> Crisman >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 12:18:13 2011 From: wlantry at gmail.com (Bill Lantry) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:18:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All the time. You should really look into those links Nic sent.... Thanks, Bill On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording > technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the > page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound > recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. > Crisman > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jan 21 12:29:56 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:29:56 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] This song is for my foe In-Reply-To: <8CD87A3BC37CF3A-1854-232D@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD87A3BC37CF3A-1854-232D@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of Hayes. You can read (and hear Hayes read) a slightly different version of this poem, among some others, here: http://passiontask.com/sevens/terrance-hayes/ c On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 7:59 AM, wrote: > From?a SFGate best poetry books of 2010 list... > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=81355 > > Note of this poem?(addressed to WS)?by Terrence Hayes from his book > Lighthead... > http://beatrice.com/wordpress/2010/11/18/terrance-hayes-snow-wallace-stevens/ From halvard at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 14:43:36 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:43:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You'll find a couple of the "live feed" pieces right here --> http://www.roughroadreview.com/html/halvard_johnson.html Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jan 21 15:07:13 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:07:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Best of 2010 list In-Reply-To: <8CD87A066C8CF13-1854-1C33@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD87A066C8CF13-1854-1C33@angweb-usm004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D39E771.6040307@nut-n-but.net> On 1/21/2011 11:35 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/drader/detail?entry_id=81355 > Wait! Don't click away just because poetry appears in the title. > There's still controversy! > My first thought after seeing another one of these "best" lists was that we ought to make up a list of the best lists of best poetry books. Considering how poor the lists James has linked us to have been, though, a list of the 10 worst lists of poetry books would be easier. So far I haven't seen a book by a living author mentioned that I'd rush to buy. I've seen two or three I wouldn't reject free copies of. That's it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 15:04:01 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:04:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: YES, all the time, ever since we had to record our reading of chaucer's proem in college (yes, I know many do this in better high schools). I have also used voice avatars machine reading (To Delite and Instruct, and the "final" readings are online at puppyflowers). There's been a recent thread on WOM-PO (women's poetry list) about reading aloud as a revision technique (I didn't follow it -- but not necessarily completing the loop by recording and playing back???). Additionally, there are many more sites than previously that include readings of poems, but as long ago as AWP Chicago, there was a younger group of poets that was using a phone call-to-MP3 service... All best, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msullivan at metrocast.net Fri Jan 21 15:18:43 2011 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:18:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I use sound alot. Sounds can change the meaning of words. Sounds have a connotative syntax role that can be experimented with to a great deal now....with new media software. Much in the same way poets in the prior decade experimented with placement on page and physical juxtaposition of words...poets now can juxtapose far more than the written word..in proximity with words. I use my own voice and the voices of other poets. I use music sounds and sound effects. you can see a poem I did with Jesse Glass http://towerjournal.com/winter_10/jesse_glass.htm that uses both his voice and juxtaposes it with rather dramatic music. The music or sound effects used with the words can change the meaning of the words... sounds can change meaning.... Mary Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? You'll find a couple of the "live feed" pieces right here --> http://www.roughroadreview.com/html/halvard_johnson.html Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Fri Jan 21 15:42:58 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Mike Snider) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:42:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FE7304C-9619-4519-82CE-58FEFFC7D286@mikesnider.org> I write in meter, and I use a lot or rhyme, both internal and end rhyme. I use recordings when revising, and I speak lines aloud as I write, both on their own and in whatever context may exist at the time ? but I do these things to insure that the poem can be heard as fairly natural speech. The poem as sound, as opposed to the poem as an imitation of human speech, interests me not at all. www.mikesnider.org On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:24, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks. > > Crisman > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 22 12:24:45 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:24:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Reznikoff Message-ID: Forwarded by Maria Damon: Reznikoff reading: http://www.hampshire.edu/news/20116.htm some recordings are available online: http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Reznikoff-Holocaust.php -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Sat Jan 22 14:58:08 2011 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:58:08 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] First 2011 issues of Munyori Journal out Message-ID: <430E71B1EF479E419F77C6B0E605BBA15AF69DEF5F@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> I am pleased to announce the release of the first 2011 issue of Munyori Literary Journal. The seventeen writers in this issue introduce us to a wealth of material from different parts of the world. Enjoy great poetry by R.S. Carlson (USA), Louie Crew (USA), Nana Fredua-Agyeman (Ghana), Liang Yujing (China), Mike Mware (Zimbabwe)...; fiction by Miriam Shumba, Kudzai Ndanga, and NoViolet Bulawayo (all from Zimbabwe) and Joanne Hillhouse (Antigua). We have an interview of Bapsi Sidhwa (Pakistan) by Sunil Sharma (India), and a book review by Memory Chirere (Zimbabwe). More fiction from Kenya's Patrick O. Ochieng...and more. Since this is only the first of six planned issues, we look forward to a year of great reading. Send your work for consideration. Open the journal here: http://www.munyori.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Jan 22 15:12:52 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:12:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reynolds Price, a Literary Voice of the South, Dies at 77 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3680ACC0-7A8C-420C-90FA-8ED30A9E255D@ripon.edu> Here's a short video of Reynolds Price dispensing one of my favorite bits of advice: http://books.simonandschuster.com/Collected-Poems/Reynolds-Price/9780684832036 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jan 21, 2011, at 8:58 AM, R Dillon wrote: > Back in the late '60s, Reynolds Price used to visit and teach at W&L > in Jim Boatwright's class. Later, we'd gather out at Jim's farmhouse > near Liberty Hall, the Stonehenge-like ruins, of the original academy. > He was one of those people whose extraordinary intelligence couldn't > help but being noticed as you talked to him, but he wasn't a pedant. > He was an easy person to talk to. When I stated, with great authority, > that the movie, 2001, was the greatest > movie of our time, he agreed with me. He was a friend of Bruce Weber's, > up in New York. Everybody laughed at Justin Adams' > account of sleeping in the streets of Calcutta, after hitchhiking the Old Silk > Road. ("When you arrived in Calcutta, what did you do?" "I went to sleep." > "Where?" "In the street." "You felt safe?" "Well, Mr. Price, everyone > was asleep." [Long silence.] "So, Justin, in the morning, what happened?" > "I got up." "And, then?" "I looked around at everyone else." "And, what > were they doing?" "Everyone was standing there.") > > The last time I saw Reynolds Price, seated, in a circle of lawn chairs, > in view of the Colonnade behind him, he wore a double-breasted blue blazer, > speaking to another student in animated German. > > RD > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 07:57:00 +0100 > From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Reynolds Price, a Literary Voice of the South, Dies at 77 > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/books/21price.html?hp > > > If Mr. Price shook off the burden of Faulkner, his work remained elusive despite its strong regional flavor and commitment to ?the weight and worth of the ordinary,? as the novelist Janet Burroway once put it. Mr. Price himself ventured a succinct appraisal for The Southern Review in 1978: ?It seems to me they are books about human freedom ? the limits thereof, the possibilities thereof, the impossibilities thereof.? > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: is, without success. Help? Richard P.S. A lot of what I've seen has been heavily polemical. That's not what I'm asking for. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Paul Lake new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Fri, 23 Feb 2001 03:01:09 -0600 >Fred, you write, >"When I approach a text that in some way identifies itself as a poem (through, for example, some form of lineation) . . ." >Exactly. The convention of lineation--the rule that poetry has lines--is one of the means by which a poem signals us how to construe its language. Likewise, grammar, syntax, rhyme, etc. I'm all in favor of playful language, for the "wild civility" and "sweet disorder" that sweeten the poem. . . or dress. "Too precise" is indeed boring--as for example unvaried meter, or precisely denotative language without connotations. Thanks to Jordan Davis for posting the Herrick poems. I love that "tempestuous petticoat." Lovely paradox there. What's more civilized than a petticoat--or wilder than a tempest? >How interesting that Herrick can write of both "wild civility" and the adulteries of art in similar rhymed couples and artfully varied metrical lines! >Why doesn't he just "open" his language and let us make our own meanings? Uh, I don't know, Paul. I thought you would have the scientific answer. Perhaps we could explain this in terms of evolution. Besides, I doubt Herrick is going to be changing his own mind about anything any time soon. I think the empirical evidence shows that he's been dead for a long time. Have you read any William Empson? Anything about ambiguity? Perhaps not. >But science does tell us things about our bodies and brains and what we make with them. It's interesting to learn what science has to say about how our humanity is encoded in our genes. Humanity coded in genes? Actually, *proteins* are coded in genes. I hate to mark your answer incorrect, but humanity is not encoded in the genome. Constrained, perhaps, but codified, represented? No. I strongly advise you to learn some introductory lessons about how genes are actually expressed in cells, if you really do love science like you say. While you are doing that, please keep in mind that science like anything else gives us a peculiar set of tools. One interesting thing about science is that the scientific method shapes reality by its own use. Science doesn't merely examine reality. I'm not against science, i actually love it, and in reality i'm somewhat of a Fullerite. I hate to see science misunderstood and battered around by statements that seem to display a misuse and misunderstanding of science. Science has its place, but it can, mostly because of its philosophical limitations, reveal *nothing but circular models* about aesthetics. And that is not very much at all. Patrick From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: thought of the poets I read as my companions, my predecessors ? from the beginning I preferred the simplest vocabulary. What fascinated me were the possibilities of context. What I responded to, on the page, was the way a poem could liberate, by means of a word?s setting, through subtleties of timing, of pacing, that word?s full and surprising range of meaning. It seemed to me that simple language best suited this enterprise; such language, in being generic, is likely to contain the greatest and most dramatic variety of meaning within individual words. I liked scale, but I liked it invisible. I loved those poems that seemed so small on the page but that swelled in the mind; I didn?t like the windy, dwindling kind. Not surprisingly, the sort of sentence I was drawn to, which reflected these tastes and native habit of mind, was paradox, which has the added advantage of nicely rescuing the dogmatic nature from a too moralizing rhetoric. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Poetry (New York: Ecco, 1994) 4-5. Copyright 1994 by Louise Gl?ck. What I share with [poets in my generation] is ambition; what I dispute is its definition. I do not think that more information always makes a richer poem. I am attracted to ellipsis, to the unsaid, to suggestion, to eloquent, deliberate silence. The unsaid, for me, exerts great power: often I wish an entire poem could be made in this vocabulary. It is analogous to the unseen for example, to the power of ruins, to works of art either damaged or incomplete. Such works inevitably allude to larger contexts; they haunt because they are not whole, though wholeness is implied: another time, a world in which they were whole, or were to have been whole, is implied. There is no moment in which their first home is felt to be the museum. ? It seems to me that what is wanted, in art, is to harness the power of the unfinished. All earthly experience is partial. Not simply because it is subjective, but because that which we do not know, of the universe, of mortality, is so much more vast than that which we do know. What is unfinished or has been destroyed participates in these mysteries. The problem is to make a whole that does not forfeit this power. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Moira Russell Seattle, WA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: what the new volume provides, not without a small shock even to those familiar with Merrill, is the size and scope of his accomplishment. (The only Merrill you see in the superstores anymore is ''Sandover''; with any luck, this new collection will edge it aside.) ... it's hard not to think of Merrill as some kind of superior alien being who deigned to walk among us for a while, absorbing the totality of experience on our planet -- time, eros, death, friendships, animals, plants, America, Europe, Asia, sex, minerals, X-rays, families, houses, opera, discos, lovers, art -- and reporting it all from every conceivable point of view (that of a goldfish, for example) and in every known register of our language. (Merrill's the kind of poet who can put ''plink!'' and ''Villiers de l'Isle Adam'' in the same poem -- and get away with it.) What's particularly uncanny about Merrill -- indeed, what makes him seem even more supernatural -- is that he had all these gifts from the start. His earliest work exhibits the same astonishing technical proficiency that characterizes his final output. The first poem in this collection, ''The Black Swan,'' gave its name to Merrill's first serious collection, published in a limited edition in Athens when the poet was 20; its description of the eponymous bird, ''Black on flat water past the jonquil lawns / Riding'' is remarkably assured: the undulating alternation of vowel colors -- black'' and ''flat,'' on the one hand, and ''water'' and ''lawn,'' on the other -- which slap against each other like wavelets; the liquid repetition of the consonants l and n. Although these early poems are often showpieces of bejeweled versification, they betray, already, a very Merrillian awareness of the proximity of pain and loss and death (''Near by what silkiest blows a sharp thing grows''). As ravishing as the early work is, you often can't help feeling that in these poems the insights about art and life and death have been learned -- book-learned, that is -- rather than earned. One of the pleasures of having nearly all of Merrill in one volume is to see how the poet grew into his poetry -- how he became willing to grapple with things themselves, rather than the intellectualized or aestheticized symbols of things (black swans, say). Merrill himself was aware that he mastered form before he mastered content. ''Given metrical facility,'' he wrote in his 1993 memoir, ''A Different Person'' (that's quite a ''given,'' but never mind), ''poems are far easier to write than prose. . . . A young poet's ignorance of life will go unnoticed. Meter, rhyme, felicitous phrases and what not mask the underlying weakness or banality.'' ''Weak'' and ''banal'' are certainly too strong for what you get in the very early poems; if you sense a little youthful glibness in them, it's only because what was to follow reveals an engagement with life and love and friendship (if not -- a frequent criticism -- with politics) that is so obviously authentic. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They would come and talk with him about important and complicated matters, politics and the war, personal ills, (we still had to translate all of it, of course, Hiroshy only used the traditional greetings at the beginning and at the end of the conversation.) Years later I went back to the village on another summer vacation. Many things had changed (except the plumbing and outhouses;) kids had grown and left, old people had died and younger fisherman took their place, some of the houses disappeared, some new motels and restaurants appeared to satisfy the need for exotic vacations in godforsaken primitive places, but I still found a few people who remembered Hiroshy, and discovered a local legend according to which 'one of us', a city girl married and humanized a strange Japanese man whose name was reminiscent of the place where The Bomb fell. And so it goes the story of Hiroshy, the human. Ana Doina From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: In "Verse for Urania," JM (Merrill's persona) addresses his Greek-American godchild Urania, the poet writes that "Our bond was sacred, being secular" (SP 270). Merrill reflects on the promise of one generation to care for another. His godchild Urania is the infant daughter of a family whom he has helped to relocate from Greece to Connecticut. Since he is related neither by religion nor blood, he feels unworthy and incapable of fulfilling his religious duties both during the baptism (when he nervously holds the infant) and after. Yet the family itself is thoroughly secularized with its many consumer goods and a father whose business is "spreading tar / Overtime upon America." The poet ironically reflects on his duty to provide Urania "world without end: . . . Doll and dentist and dowry" (SP 265). His sour perspective is motivated in part by the disturbance of living a floor above the frantic preparations for the party, and more seriously by his sense of the mechanical march of time on the christening day as measured by a "clock that loses it" (SP 265). In resisting a secular, materialistic understanding both of time and his role as godfather, he is inspired by Urania?s name, which means "heavenly one" and denotes the muse of Astronomy. As the note preceding Divine Comedies tells us, Merrill is "indebted throughout" to Giorgio de Santillana's and Hertha Dechend?s Hamlet?s Mill, which argues for the origin of myth in mankind?s attempt to understand the stars. Or, as Merrill expresses the theory, our "wisest apes / Met on a cracked mud terrace" to stare "the random starlight into shapes" (SP 267). Merrill?s poetry is so concentrated in this poem that it is difficult to know where to start and stop quoting it. The fourth of the poem?s pentameter sections praises the "rhetoric" that organizes everything from sentences and the first objects a child uses to James?s The Wings of the Dove and the starry universe itself. Although the "old truths" have been debased in children?s tales and television, fiction and poetry keep them alive: For the first myth was Measure. Finally take Any poor smalltown starstruck sense of "love That makes the world go round"--see how the phrase Stretches from Mystic to Mount Palomar Back to those nights before the good old days, Before the axle jumped its socket so That genes in shock flashed on/off head to toe, Before mill turned to maelstrom, and IBM Wrenched from Pythagoras his diadem. (SP 266) The "mill turned to maelstrom" is "Hamlet?s Mill." Santillana and Dechend allude to the mill owned by a Norse prototype of Shakespeare?s Hamlet, who owned a fabled mill that "ground out peace and plenty" but eventually became a maelstrom at the bottom of the sea: "This imagery stands . . . for an astronomical process, the secular shifting of the sun through the signs of the zodiac which determines world-ages . . . . Each age brings a World Era, a Twilight of the Gods . . . floods and cataclysms herald the shaping of a new world." To the modern age, the configurations that the ancients saw in the sky have become a whirling chaos. Merrill shares Santillana?s and Dechend?s dismay over the modern obscuring of the stars (not only knowledge about them but also their very presence in the sky) and indeed of mythic consciousness itself. Myths have become fables and fantasies, and Merrill sees them vulgarized as televised cartoons (SP 266). As we will see in "Mirabell?s Books of Number," numbers in the time of Pythagoras had a sacred function that they lack for organizations such as IBM. The essence of the loss involves our sense of time because mechanical time has replaced the measure of time by generations (a Latin "saecula" was approximately thirty-three and one third years) or the movement of the stars. The rhetoric of star shapes "made its fine / Point in the course of sweeping periods / Each sentence thirty lives long" [a millennium] (SP 266). Although Merrill employs the clich? "love makes the world go round," there is an exalted Dantean wisdom in believing that it is love that moves the stars: "the heart . . . Remaining geocentric" (SP 267). The poet is back to earth again as he wonders, "Where has time flown?" Now he measures time by the growth of the child, who can already stand and balance herself. Urania represents a New Age, replacing the time-bound "Iron Age" that is coming to a materialistic end. These eras exist on a individual, human level. The relation of the microcosm/macrocosm is developed throughout the poem; for example, novas exploding in the sky correspond to the cells dying in our brain. The finest of Merrill?s cosmic analogies is the traditional one of the navel?s correspondence to the pole of the earth. The opening of the verse paragraph that describes this parallel, "Let evening be at its height," recalls the vertiginous lines in "A Dialogue of Self and Soul" where Yeats imagines the steep ascent to the pole star. Merrill refers not only to the pole that Polaris defines but also the ecliptic that accounts for the earth?s wobble and thus the precession of the equinox. According to Hamlet?s Mill, the precession "was conceived as causing the rise and the cataclysmic fall of ages of the world." As the earth gyrates through a cycle some 26,000 years long, the pole of the ecliptic points to different pole stars; for the Egyptians it was alpha Draconis, for the Greeks beta Ursae Minoris, and for us alpha Ursae Minoris (Polaris). The sun?s position also changes among the constellations at the vernal equinoxes. For example, near the time of Christ?s birth it jumped a "notch" (the term we will see Merrill using) from Aries into Pisces. When Urania?s mother shows the poet an olive-like mole near her child?s navel, he writes that it helps him conceive That fixed, imaginary, starless pole Of the ecliptic which this one we steer by Circles, a notch each time the old bring golden Gifts to the new-born child, whose age begins. Nothing that cosmic in our case, my dear-- Just your parents' Iron Age yielding To some twilight of the worldly goods. (SP 269) The poet himself inhabits not only the Iron Age of a materialistic society but also of a man no longer young or in love (his recent love having set "behind the foliage now"). He resolves to measure a new stage of his life by his love for the child and as the guardian of her golden age. (Francis in The Seraglio does something similar when he resolves to care for Xenia?s child.) As the lines become increasing personal, they develop into Merrill?s characteristic abba stanzas: Godchild, be lightly taken, life and limb, By rosy-fingered flexings as by flame Who else would linger so, crooning your name, But second childhood. When time came for him-- (SP 269) The "him" is the poet himself whose second childhood will approach as Urania grows into adulthood. As we have see in The Seraglio, childhood is a blessing even when it reveals foolishness (as with Francis) or the second childhood of the elderly. Foolish or wise, Merrill resolves to measure time by generations rather than by IBM or the clock. As the poem concludes, it is "time" for him to return to his own solitary life, and he does so through music. Santillana and von Dechend remark that "the flow of time, the time of music, was of the essence, inescapable, baffling to the systematic mind." The poem?s final stanzas invoke this non-mechanical time as the poet returns to his apartment above the family's quarters and listens to a recording of Henry Purcell?s "The Blessed Virgin's Expostulation." The opposition of sacred and secular, early and late, near and far, and old and young collapses as he listens to the music of a "schoolgirl?s flight to Egypt." Foreshadowing Maria's address to Gabriel in The Changing Light, the Virgin in Purcell's song calls on Gabriel to appear again and wonders if her the vision was only a dream. The poem cites the song's final lines in which Mary declares, "I trust the God, but O! I fear the Child." (SP 270) The poet observes that Mary's feelings about her responsibility for a child are like his own. The sunrise of the poem?s conclusion recalls the final poem of Water Street, "A Tenancy," in which the sunlight enters the poet?s room. The sunrise fills both levels of the house, JM?s and Urania?s, blotting out the difference between them: Our bond was sacred, being secular: In time embedded, it in us, near, far, Flooding both levels with the same sunrise. (SP 270) Although "Verse for Urania" is one of Merrill?s most highly finished lyrics, its cyclical themes and images will be developed extensively in the narrative poems to come. Timothy Materer, 107 Tate, English Department University of Missouri, Columbia MO 65211 Fax: 573 882-5785 The James Merrill Electronic Discussion Forum http://www.missouri.edu/~engtim/jm.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: All blandly says the book, "an average leaf." Example, the catalpa in the book Sprays out its leaves in whorls of three Around the stem; the one in front of you But rarely does, or somewhat, or almost; Maybe it's not catalpa? Dreadful doubt. It may be weeks before you see an elm Fanlike in form, a spruce that pyramids, A sweetgum spiring up in steeple shape. Still, pedetemtim as Lucretious says, Little by little, you do start to learn; And learn as well, maybe, what language does And how it does it, cutting across the world Not always at the joints, competing with Experience while cooperating with Experience, and keeping an obstinate Intransigence, uncanny, of its own. Think finally about the secret will Pretending obedience to Nature, but Invidiously distinguishing everywhere, Dividing up the world to conquer it. And think also how funny knowledge is: You may succeed in learning many trees And calling off their names as you go by, But their comprehensive silence stays the same. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: is "A Shropshire Lad" ??? reading through the poet's collected papers and three volumes containing everything he published about Latin or Greek until his death at 77 in 1936. "He wrote sentences which made you laugh or slap your thigh or walk round the room," Mr. Stoppard said. "Not always because of sheer wit but sometimes because of sheer malice. Scholarship had a moral dimension for him because what he absolutely believed was knowledge for its own sake, true knowledge, was a moral crusade worthy of him." Mr. Stoppard, 63, who grew up in Czechoslovakia, Singapore, India and England, quit school at 17 and went to work for a newspaper in Bristol, eventually becoming a drama critic. "I loved being a journalist," he said, though he skewers them regularly in his plays. "A small part of that will never quite disappear." Then he switched to writing plays, making his first splash with "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead" in 1967. "Much as I enjoyed being a journalist, working for myself is even more attractive," he said, attributing it to a combination of "vanity and laziness." He now lives in Chelsea in London "with a lot of mess and books." "I'm usually late for something," he said. In summer, he fishes for trout. He has been married twice and is single. His next work is a trilogy of plays about 19th-century Russians ??? "not all of them, but some of them," Mr. Stoppard said. He has also written screenplays ??? "Empire of the Sun," "Russia House," "Billy Bathgate" and, most notably, the hugely successful "Shakespeare in Love," for which he won an Academy Award in 1999 with Marc Norman. While he described that film as "a happy experience," Mr. Stoppard said theater is his first loyalty. "I can say movies are not as close to me, they're just not," he said. "Theater is there to serve the writing; in the movie world the writing is there to serve the movie." Although Housman's scholarship excited him, Mr. Stoppard said, it was the poet's human dimension that he found particularly compelling and wanted most to explore in the play. "I would like it to work as a story of a very proud man who fell in love and did not find happiness in love," Mr. Stoppard said. In this case, the love involved two men, but Mr. Stoppard said capturing this was not difficult playwriting terrain, however personally unfamiliar. "I treated it as any other love," he said. "I don't think it's any different. I'm sure the symptoms are the same ??? the happiness and the misery. Gender becomes a detail." That sense of thwarted passion ??? Jackson never returned Housman's romantic feelings ??? pervades "The Invention of Love," made doubly urgent by the sense that time is running out. Mr. Stoppard dismissed the suggestion that the play represented a significant change in his treatment of love as a subject. The most notable juncture regarding love in his plays ??? to the degree that there is one ??? he said, was writing about it in the first place, as he did for the first time with "The Real Thing" in 1982. "I think I was faintly embarrassed about emotion in public and progressively cared less about that particular kind of reserve," he said. "Now I don't care at all." Mr. Stoppard, whose thick hair and rugged features show few signs of age, did acknowledge, however, that he was increasingly aware of "the flapping wings of the angel of death" and how people in his life have begun to leave him. "The classic thing happens," he said. "Your contemporaries start dying, and some of them are younger than you are." One senses that Mr. Stoppard might take comfort in one of his own scenes from "The Invention of Love," in which Wilde advises Housman that it is more important to have reached for moments of greatness than settled for the lack of them. "Better a fallen rocket than never a burst of light," he says. "I made my life into my art, and it was an unqualified success. The blaze of my immolation threw its light into every corner of the land, where uncounted young men sat each in his own darkness. . . . I awoke the imagination of the century." From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The feckless beast! Even so, resemblances Were on my mind: female and feline, though She preens herself from satisfaction, and does Not mind lying even in snow. She is Lofty and bedraggled, without need to choose. As an ex-animal, I look fondly on Her excesses and simplicities, and would not return To them; taking no marks for what I have become, Merely that my nine lives peal in my ears again And again, ring in these austerities, These arbitrary disciplines of mine, Most of them trivial: like covering The children on my way to bed, and trying To live well enough alone, and not to dream Of grappling in the snow, claws plunged in fur, Or waken in a caterwaul of dying. --Carolyn Kizer __________________ David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu __________________ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: at the moment): "It is misleading to speak without qualification of Mill's Utilitarianism. Nor is it sufficient to add that Mill modified the Utilitarianism that he inherited from Bentham and from his father in one way and another in order to meet the criticisms that it encountered in Victorian times. He does, it is true, sometimes give that impression (as in his essay Utilitarianism); but elsewhere (as in his essay On Liberty) he scarcely attempts to conceal the fact that his premises are completely independent of Bentham's. Thus, contrary to the common belief, it appears to be very hazardous to characterize offhand the precise position of Mill on any major philosophical topic." Moira Russell Seattle, WA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: to at the moment): "It is misleading to speak without qualification of Mill's Utilitarianism. Nor is it sufficient to add that Mill modified the Utilitarianism that he inherited from Bentham and from his father in one way and another in order to meet the criticisms that it encountered in Victorian times. He does, it is true, sometimes give that impression (as in his essay Utilitarianism); but elsewhere (as in his essay On Liberty) he scarcely attempts to conceal the fact that his premises are completely independent of Bentham's. Thus, contrary to the common belief, it appears to be very hazardous to characterize offhand the precise position of Mill on any major philosophical topic." Moira Russell Seattle, WA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: --Terry Ponick From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Ted Roethke Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light. An Anarchist's Letter Harald Wyndham Mabel - when is the bomb set to Starry Sky Charles Simic All the convicts have their roaches lit. In passing, I'll mention a poetry competition from a few years ago. The winning entry was a single word lighght -- Jaimes Alsop The Alsop Review http://www.alsopreview.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Poetry MP3 Picks Poetry & spoken word performance are everywhere on the Web now, in streaming formats like RealAudio & downloadable ones like MP3. We're introducing our library of Poetry MP3 Picks to bring you to the best poetry recordings you can find online from poets old & new. Enjoy! And don't forget to visit our Forum & suggest your favorite audio poem (http://forums.about.com/ab-poetry/messages?lgnF=y&msg=11190.1) for our weekly highlight. http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/blmp3pick.htm From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Saint joseph thought the world would melt But liked the way his finger smelt. BG: > More tools like rhyme give a poet more ways to do this. A > visual poet, using visio-poetic techniques, can give us > the pleasure of a word's denotations PLUS the pleasure > of its visual appearance on the page. If the word rhymes > with another word, he can give us three pleasures in one > space.<< But inserting a picture in the text is not a "tool like rhyme" -- it is an entirely different sort of tool: one in so different a category that I don't see where you can call it a tool of poetry at all. BG: > For how I distinguish mixing visual images and text in poetry > from newspaper journalism ... the main difference is that > journalism is what I > call informrature (when it is factual) and advocature > (when it is propagandistic), not literature.<< This is begging the question again: you are merely asserting that your taxonomy is right without taking any pains to explain *why* you think it is right; you are assuming your taxonomy is right and then using your taxonomy to assert that your taxonomy is right. You are making, essentially, an empty statement. The question is what's the difference between literature and informature -- and how do we tell them apart if, as you assert in your email and on your site, that each uses the same techniques? BG: > My essay explains it.<< Would that it did; but it does not, alas. Perhaps you can explain it here. BG: > [The Fosbury Flop] is [n]ot a metaphor but an example of the > kind of thing > that is what I call a technical extension of a craft. > You're nitpicking by deciding that because the flop > is a better way of jumping higher, I mean that new > techniques in poetry also result in better poetry.<< My point is not what I decide but that your example is drawn from circumstances where "better" is pretty cut and dried, as you yourself point out, and you are trying to apply it to circumstances where "better" is nothing like cut and dried. I'm pointing out that if you assert that what you mean by "technique" is something that most people would agree is "better" then you are, clearly, urging the adoption of the "better" technique and the abandonment of the "worse" one -- and your interlocutors understand you to be saying exactly that because they see immediately where the sports analogy breaks down when applied to a literary endeavor. I'm trying to urge you to find a different way to explain what you mean because your urging of such sports metaphors onto literary endeavors makes you seem to say that you know clearly what is "better" and what is "worse". Or else, if you *do* think that you know clearly what is "better" and what is "worse" then clearly state your boundaries and define your terms, and demonstrate that you *do* have a "better" technique and that those pursuing "worse" ones ought to abandon them. BG: > Poetry is different from high jumping in that it does > not have one objectively judgeable purpose.<< Yes, this is precisely the problem -- and yet you offer your opinions as if they were measurements of the height of the bar that mathemakuical poetry-jumpers had cleared, setting a new world's record, and thumbing your nose at the plodding rhymers and free- versers whose text-only endeavors have no mathematical symbols in them. BG: > Full examples of > new techniques to technically advance a craft the way the > poetry techniques I favor do would have to come from other > arts. Jackson Pollock's drip technique is one such. The > resulting paintings are different from any before; a painting > can be danced out.<< Once again it appears that you are arguing that new is a virtue irrespective of any other consideration. What people who look at such paintings suspect is that such paintings are closer kin to Sid Caesar's comic pseudo-German than to actual words with actual meaning. And that is not to say that either Pollock or Caesar are without art. BG: > ... The result is not a higher jump but a different jump.<< Unfortunately for your argument, this is simply not clear -- and it's not clear yet. What is needed here is a *different* metaphor, not an explanation of the existing inappropriate one. BG: > About whether sound is more primary than sight in language, > who cares?<< I am arguing that it's an important point because the relationship between sound and meaning within a language for a native-speaker of that language is profoundly significant in a way that the relationship of the arrangement of words on a page, or how a word is spelled, or whether there's a picture included or not, is not. I'm arguing that the relationship between sound and meaning within a language for a native-speaker of that language is something that poetry exploits in a way more profoundly significant than the way spelling and typography can be exploited. BG: > ... I say > making aesthetic use of the way words look on a page can > be as valuable as making use of the way they sound. For me > they definitely do. I know that to others it's not true.<< You make this assertion and you claim it as your opinion and you agree that not everyone agrees with you -- and yet you seem still to take the attitude that you still have the Fosbury Flop of Poetry and that's that. Do you see how that could be off-putting? BG: > ... You're pretty consistently saying no more than that you > don't like the new techniques I favor.<< Actually, I'm not saying that I don't like them; I'm asking you why you assert that these techniques ought to be called "poetry" within your taxonomy by challenging you to define "poetry" through an explanation of what it is you mean when you refer to "the job of poetry". So what *is*, in your opinion, "the job of poetry"? BG: > ... I think respect for others > requires us to assume that people claiming to get something > significant out of a kind of art we don't are sincere and basing their > appreciation on something that the art truly does viscerally to them > (and all art is in the final analysis visceral) rather than assuming > that because we don't share their appreciation, they are faking it in > one way or another.<< Well, that sort of respect is earned not given -- and when you make extraordinary claims you must provide extraordinary evidence. My concern here isn't even that your evidence isn't extraordinary enough, it's that it is absent. BG: > I do think poems are, in part, puzzles. If a poem is > immediately clear, it is probably not much good.<< This is no more persuasive, though, than the statement of the fellow who claims that his three year old on a trike could do as well as Jackson Pollock. BG: > The > best problems raise questions, force exploration, need > reflection. A poem that is overtly a puzzle, too, can > be fun, and fun should not be barred from poetry. It's > all a matter of balancing the puzzle-aspect against other > aspects, and deciding who your audience is. My work is mainly > for more conceptual people than Rod McKuen's is, for instance.<< And the clear implication is that your work is for people who are better, smarter, more hip, or something, than those who admire Rod McKuen. It is just this tendency to compare to the disadvantage of those things that are not like what you're advocating that seems so clearly intended to dismiss those things that are not like those you are advocating. BG: > Using mathematical symbols and operations in poetry > is significantly different from using only words because, > uh, math looks different, establishes a different tone, > requires a different thought process, allows new kinds > of metaphors, etc.<< I would have said that math is a language of its own and the reason you are trying to call it "poetry" is that you don't have the skills to do the actual math. If you want to manipulate mathematical symbols, why, then, why not study math and get good at it? Importing math symbols into another language (English in this case) is much like using a Latin phrase here or a German one there or a Japanese or ancient Greek one somewhere else: if it doesn't illuminate the poem then it is merely pretentious. mbales at cybergate.net From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. The sort of absolute statement you give here: "It's used in poetry, so it's a tool, for me." argues straightforwardly that if *anything* were used in poetry it would be a tool of poetry. How would you react to a young man coming up to you on the street, sticking a gun in your ear, reading you two of his poems, and then charging you the admission price of all the money you have on you to have heard them -- is the gun in your ear a "tool of poetry" then? The most disturbing argument you make, though, it seems to me, is the one that seems to reveal the basic assumption you are making about all literary endeavors: that it is the reader's job to try to "work out" what the writer is saying, even if the writer admits up front that he said it poorly, when you say: "I referred you to my essay. It didn't explain it to you. Sorry. The essay is not well- written. But I think if you really tried, you could work out my explanations." What this says to me is that far from holding that the writer is responsible for creating "verbal beauty" you hold that it is the *reader's* job to "work it out". You seem to take no responsibility for clearly articulating your points in any sort of persuasive way; you seem to be taking an aggressively polemical approach that demands acquiescence without evidence; you seem to be asking for our faith. I'm glad to see that you're holding that intention is what distinguishes journalism from poetry. I'm hoping to persuade you, later, that intention is much more than that. I'm not trying to make *you* out to be anything, though -- certainly not "the Enemy". I'm addressing your opinions, to the extent I can find out what they really are, and asking you questions and making observations about your opinions. I hope you are not one to conflate your self with your opinion, so that any disagreement with your opinion is taken to be an attack on you personally. What I'm trying to do is point out that the example you used of the Fosbury Flop and the words you use, such as "advance the craft", embody a competitive approach to poetry-making; one that says that the new techniques you advocate, and some other new techniques, too, if I understand you correctly, are better than the old techniques and ought to replace the old techniques. This doesn't make you "the Enemy", because you may be right. But because it is not a widely-accepted view it means that if you want to persuade others you must provide evidence that it is so, and that means showing that you have a way to measure things like poetry and beauty in a way that at least approximates our ability to measure high-jumping. Yours is an extraordinary claim, and it will take extraordinary evidence to persuade others of it. It could be that you have never had it pointed out to you before that by comparing mathemaku to the Fosbury Flop you are making the extraordinary claim that you can measure poetry or beauty or other such intangibles at least approximately as well as high-jumpers can measure height. My point is that if you don't like what seem to me to be the inevitable conclusion that you're making an extraordinary claim, then don't make the claim. Find another example, one that illustrates the claims you are really trying to make, and that does not mire your opinion in controversial claims you do not want to make. You also advance the notion that "the new" is always (and you, not I, said "always") preferable to the excellent, or to any other value. That, too, fits in with the competitive approach: the competition is to be new not to be good, it seems, in your view, so it comes to seem as if you are taking the approach that you really do have an extraordinary claim to put forward. That's fine -- all extraordinary claims welcome, but please with them provide the extraordinary evidence. As I said before, you make assertions and beg the question but mere assertions and logical fallacies are insufficient to be persuasive. When you say: "All I will do is state that I don't believe I am although I sometimes answer things flippantly or badly--and AM very definitely sometimes polemical against NOT those who have different tastes in poetry than mine, or different ideas about it but only those who dismiss my kind of poetry and my ideas", that's fair enough -- so long as you remember that if your arguments are bad, your remarks flippant, and your approach polemical you are pretty much asking for dismissal out of hand for your kind of poetry and your ideas. Few people are persuaded by bad arguments couched in flippant and polemical terms. By the way, I like Pollock a great deal. I'm just pointing out that so far your claims for your kind of poetry and your ideas are couched in the same kinds of flippant and polemical bad arguments as were the thoughtless dismissals of Pollock's work. In short, find better arguments and take a less polemical approach and you'll find, I think, that fewer people think your ideas are nothing but thoughtless dismissals of all the poetry that came before Bob Grumman's. mbales at cybergate.net From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The soft warm loam, We rise: To shape of rose leaf, Of face and shoulder. We stand, then, To a whiff of life, Lifted to the silver of the sun Over and out of the loam A day. --Carl Sandburg, fr. *Cornhuskers*, 1918 _______________________________________ David Graham __________________ David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu __________________ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: that "All new techniques are advancements", unwise as that may be. So, do you indeed hold that "All new techniques are advancements"? In the meantime, until you answer this question clearly, there is no reason to examine "alpha-" or "beta-" or "delta advancements" until we know what you mean by "advancements" -- whether you do indeed mean that "All new techniques are advancements". BG: > Note well, the result of a technique a delta > advancement is based on might be superior to the > result of a technique an alpha acvancement is > based on. What makes alpha and beta advancements > special is that they give poets new tools to work > with as opposed to new ways of using old tools << Well, then, what you're asserting here is two different fronts on which "advancements" can be made, it seems to me, if you are willing to abandon the "Fosbury Flop" example, and not to insist that any "advancement" means that the poem that uses an "advancement" is "better" than a poem that does not; if, that is, as it seems you may do here, you abandon the notion that "new technique" necessarily means "better results". The "Fosbury Flop" provided a technique that allowed almost any jumper to dramatically improve in a short period of time; and jumpers using the Flop out-competed those using the old scissors- style in competitions so that the users of the old technique had to adopt it or accept regular defeat or retire. That's the kind of "new technique" you claim, it seems, a "new technique" is in poetry: one that allows poets that use it to out-compete other poets who do not. But you don't make clear what the scale is by which a poetic competition can be measured, in spite of your "informed poetry readers after reflection"; nor do you make clear why merely a "new" technique is your ideal, instead of a "better" technique, because your notion of "consensus of informed poetry readers after reflection" is so vaguely inadequate a scale, so inherently subjectively biased, and so open to politicking, that it offers us no solid ground on which to stand from which fairly to view the relative merits of the respective techniques. In short, the Fosbury Flop did not replace the scissors-style jump because it was NEW but because it was BETTER. BG: > This improves poetry as a whole though it may not > lead to better poems, only to a wider range of equally > high-level poems.<< Even this assumption is doubtful, though: you are claiming that a "new technique" will by virtue of nothing but its newness lead to poems of "equally high level" of other poems. There is no evidence that mere newness, all by itself (and you are claiming that mere newness, not some sort of measured effectiveness) is the sort of virtue that will inevitably result in *at least* equally high-levels of achievement. What you're essentially saying is this: That after the Fosbury Flop has so thoroughly replaced the scissors-style jump that the scissors style jump is utterly forgotten, if someone were to invent the scissors-style jump, and it was "new" to every Flopper, that the scissors-style jump MUST, according to your claim, be by virtue of its newness, enable scissors-style jumpers to jump as well as Floppers. Newness is not in and of itself a virtue, Bob. In order to claim that you are measuring QUALITY and not merely locating a technique along a time-line, you have to define what quality is and how you propose to measure it -- you have to have a goal and a scale. Without a clear goal and a scale by which to measure real advancement toward that goal there can be no valid claims of "advancement". So, Bob -- what are the measurable goals ,and by what scale do you propose to measure them, that lead to "equally high-level poems"? BG: > ... I consider...infravisation a significant new tool for > poetry ... Marcus may not know any > more about what I've been saying than he did when > he first saw and sneered at "shadowl," but I trust > others do, whether they agree with me, or consider > what I'm saying of interest, or not.<< You have me confused with someone else; I'm the one who sneered at "lighght" as "Hey, look! Silent letters!" But having evidently missed my first opportunity to sneer at "shadowl" let me seize this one. As a technique, blurring words together in order to get interesting effects is not only not new -- and, therefore, cannot be "good" according to Bob -- (and it was being *mocked* by Calverley as I posted before in the 1870s) -- it's as old as, and perhaps older than, any technique, so far as we know: because it's been done not just for a hundred years but as far as we know for as long as there has been language. Further, before we can say that a one word poem has gained so much from a new and better technique that it is "first-rate", we might want to ask what it has lost in other techniques by being only one word long -- and whether what it has lost is so well made up for in the new and better technique that the poem is "first-rate" in comparison with other poems labeled "first-rate". Finally, by asserting that this one new technique of "infravisation" is so much newer and better than all other techniques that it and it alone, used to create a one-word poem, can make that poem "first- rate" is yet another example of the claim Bob is making that this technique is the Fosbury Flop Of Poetry: that it is so much better than the other techniques that in the future the ONLY first-rate poems that will be made will be one-word poems employing the Grumman Infravisation Technique, or GIT -- but I think we should refrain from calling it the "Grumman Flop". mbales at cybergate.net From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I'll fix your flat tire, Merle, Don't you let your sweet country-pickin' fingers get all covered with "earl" For you're a honky, I know, but Merle, you got soul so I'll fix your flat tire, Merle Now *that's* poetry. . . . Thanks, Tad, for this article. David Graham _______________________ >In Woodstock, The Band knew what Haggard was talking about when >Robbie Robertson wrote songs like "Tears of Rage," about the >plight of parents trying to reach their children. On the West >Coast, Crosby, Stills and Nash had some inkling of what Haggard >was talking about when they wrote "Teach Your Children." In the >Midwest, John Prine knew, when he wrote songs of the deepest >respect for his elders, like "Grandpa Was a Carpenter" and "Hello >in There." And the hippy-dippy Grateful Dead knew, when they >recorded Haggard's songs. And when Haggard recorded the hippie- >bashing "Okie From Muskogee," the counter-culture embraced >him as much as it vilified him. In the best of the "Okie" answer >songs, "I'll Change Your Flat Tire, Merle," a hippie comes to >Haggard's rescue because "Merle, you've got soul." > > > __________________ David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu __________________ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: If I survived I was "paying my debt To society" a paid Killer. It wasn't like anything I'd done Before, on the paved Streets of Cincinatti Or on the ballroom floor At Mr. Vathe's dancing class What would Anne Marie Goldsmith Have thought of me If instead of asking her to dance I had put my BAR to my shoulder And shot her in the face I thought about her in my foxhole-- One, in a foxhole near me, has his throat cut during the night We take precautions but it is night and it is you. The typhoon continues and so do you. "I can't be killed--because of my poetry. I have to live on in order to write it." I thought--even crazier thought, or just as crazy-- "If I'm killed while thinking of lines, it will be too corny When it's reported" (I imagined it would be reported!) So I kept thinking of lines of poetry. One that came to me on the beach on Leyte Was "The surf comes in like masochistic lions." I loved this terrible line. It was keeping me alive. My Uncle Leo wrote to me, "You won't believe this, but some day you may wish You were footloose and twenty on Leyte again." I have never wanted To be on Leyte again, With you, whispering into my ear, "Go on and win me! Tomorrow you might not be alive, So do it today!" How could anyone win you? You were too much for me, though I Was older than you were and in camouflage. But for you Who threw everything together, and had all the systems Working for you all the time, this was trivial. If you could use me You'd use me, and then forget. How else Did I think you'd behave? I'm glad you ended. I'm glad I didn't die. Or lose my mind. As machines make ice We made dead enemy soldiers, in Dark jungle alleys, with weapons in our hands That produced fire and kept going straight through I was carrying one, I who had gone about for years as a child Praying God don't let there be another war Or if there is, don't let me be in it. Well, I was in you. All you cared about was existing and being won. You died of a bomb blast in Nagasaki, and there were parades. Copyright (c) 2000 by Kenneth Koch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Read an interview with Kenneth Koch and his poems "To My Heart as I Go Along," "To Jewishness," and "To My Twenties." http://www.knopfpoetry.com Read Kenneth Koch's essay "On Reading Poetry" from his book SLEEPING ON THE WING at http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/studentcenter/essays/koch.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Visit our website and wander around -- check out the broadsides there for you to print out in color or black and white, the poets-on-poetry essays, and the on-going conversation about poetry in the forum. If you know of interesting poetry links, that's the place to let others know: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/studentcenter/forums.cgi?page=1&messag es_per_page=20 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You can sign up for Random House's new monthly African American e-newsletter which will feature excerpts and original content from today's foremost African-American authors. Get the advanced word on the newest work from writers like Colson Whitehead, E. Lynn Harris, Cornel West, Chinua Achebe, Alice Walker, and Zora Neale Hurston. Send a blank email to af-am at randomhouse.com to join. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Additional Koch poem below.... \ \ \ "To 'Yes'" You are always the member of a team, Accompanied by a question-- If this is the way the world ends, is it really going to? No. Are you a Buddhist? Maybe. A monsoon? Yes. I have been delighted by you even in the basement When asking if I could have some coal lumps and the answer was yes. Yes to the finality of the brightness And to the enduring qualities of the lark She sings at heaven's gate. But is it unbolted? Bolted? Yes. Which, though, is which? To which the answer cannot be yes So reverse question. Pamela bending before the grate Turns round rapidly to say Yes! I will meet you in Boston At five after nine, if my Irishness is still working And the global hamadryads, wood nymphs of my "yes." But what, Pamela, what does that mean? Am I a yes To be posed in the face of a negative alternative? Or has the sky taken away from me its ultimate guess About how probably everything is going to be eventually terrible Which is something we knew all along, being modified by a yes When what we want is obvious but has a brilliantly shining trail Of stars. Or are those asterisks? Yes. What is at the bottom Of the most overt question? Do we die? Yes. Does that Always come later than now? Yes. I love your development From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: That has the world by the throat. Am I lying? Yes. Are you smiling? Yes. I'll follow you, yes? No reply. Copyright (c) 2000 by Kenneth Koch --- NOTE: You received this message because you subscribed to knopfpoetry as: JforJames at aol.com on the Books at Random Web site. To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-knopfpoetry-6633036S at list.randomhouse.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Atlantic Monthly Press. Copyright ? 1978 by the Literary Estate of May Swenson. __________________ David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu __________________ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Up to the hundred thousand bodies Now nourishing the green Ardennes. If trophies were to be built for all, The urns would leave no room for men, The names would require an endless wall. History that the Greeks released, Unconscious of evil, from the lamp, Now finds its scale so far increased That atom-bomb and murder-camp Draw less profusion from the heart Than a few soldiers killed at sea When Pericles, in the crowded mart, Read out his invented eulogy. Adam Kirsch Partisan Review Volume LXVII, Number 4 Fall 2000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Up to the hundred thousand bodies Now nourishing the green Ardennes. If trophies were to be built for all, The urns would leave no room for men, The names would require an endless wall. History that the Greeks released, Unconscious of evil, from the lamp, Now finds its scale so far increased That atom-bomb and murder-camp Draw less profusion from the heart Than a few soldiers killed at sea When Pericles, in the crowded mart, Read out his invented eulogy. Adam Kirsch Partisan Review Volume LXVII, Number 4 Fall 2000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From MatererT at missouri.edu Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: MatererT at missouri.edu (Timothy Materer) Date: 4/30/01 10:45:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time Subject: No subject Message-ID: >CFP: The Public Life of American Poetry (12/3/01; anthology) > >Submissions are sought for a collection of essays on the public uses and >effects of modern American poetry. The aim of the book, The Public Life of >American Poetry, is to provide a history of public poetry in America from the >mid-nineteenth century through the contemporary period and to explore the >cultural contexts and politics of that poetry and its performances. Essays >on poets and poems that mobilize a mass audience and/or seek to intervene in >public political discourses are welcome. We intend the book to be accessible >to a wide audience, and encourage submissions of essays that, even if >theoretical in nature, are written in a way that is open to general readers. >Possible subjects include: defining "public" poetries; newspaper and magazine >poetry; bookstore poetry readings; poetry slams; web-based poetry; subway >poetry; labor/protest poetry; inaugural poetry; Poet Laureates; Robert >Pinsky's Favorite Poem Project; MTV/PBS/NPR poetry broadcasts; war/protest >poetry; cowboy poetry; rap poetry; etc. Possible poets include, but are not >limited to, Walt Whitman, James Whitcomb Riley, Paul Laurence Dunbar, Vachel >Lindsay, Edna St. Vincent Millay, Robert Frost, Harlem Renaissance poets, the >Beats, Black Arts Movement poets, and contemporary spoken word poets. >Contributions should be 15-20 pages in length and follow MLA style. The >deadline is December 3, 2001; early submission is encouraged. Send >manuscripts either by mail or by e-mail as an attached file to Tyler Hoffman, >Rutgers University, Armitage Hall, Camden, NJ 08102 >(TBHLHH at crab.rutgers.edu), or Susan Gilmore, 19 Auburn Rd., West Hartford, CT >06119 (gilmores at mail.ccsu.edu). > > From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List > CFP at english.upenn.edu > Full Information at > http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ > or write Erika Lin: elin at english.upenn.edu > =============================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Consummate Bookseller Ted Wilentz Dies at 86 Seriously ill for the last two years with heart and lung problems, Ted Wilentz died on Tuesday at the age of 86, leaving a legacy of more than 60 years in all aspects of bookselling. His philosophy was an oft-quoted maxim that a good bookseller should be "behind the writers and ahead of the readers." Perhaps best known as the co-owner (with his brother Eli) of Manhattan's Eighth Street Bookshop, a literary landmark from 1947 until it closed in 1979, Wilentz's experience in books started a decade earlier and continued until his death. Among other things, he was ABA president for the 1965-66 term, created a publishing house (Corinth Books) and worked as a consultant for independent bookstores. In 1937, Wilentz and four friends opened a book and stationery store in the Bronx, N.Y. The store blossomed into three over the next few years. At the outbreak of World War II, Wilentz signed up and served in the Army for five years. By the end of the war, however, only one store remained, which Wilentz and his brother Eli ran together. The brothers then bought a Womrath bookstore/lending library franchise. When the franchise agreement expired, they renamed the three-floor bookstore the Eighth Street Bookshop and fine-tuned the store--dumping the unprofitable lending library and expanding the stock of backlist titles. Along with the promotion of backlist, the bookstore was an early champion of paperbacks. In Book Business (Norton), Jason Epstein remembers "the thrilling Eighth Street Bookshop, a bibliographer's paradise and an informal school for many fledgling publishers in those days." He continued, "It was here that the idea for Anchor Books first occurred to me." The imprint sought to bring readers quality paperback editions (printed on acid-free paper) of classics. The Wilentz brothers stood behind the new idea by creating a paperback section and placing an initial order of 100 copies of each of Anchor's first 12 titles. The Eighth Street Bookshop was also known for its social scene. "Before I met and married Ted in 1965, I remember the Eighth Street Bookshop being the equivalent of a singles bar in the '50s," Joan Wilentz told PW Daily. "It was such an exciting venue. We just drooled over the titles available. There was just a wave of exciting talents in that post-World War II generation that partied at each other's houses." The brothers founded Corinth Books in 1959 to publish books that reflected their personal tastes and beliefs. Over the years, Corinth published or co-published a number of important works, many by young and upcoming writers, including several collections of Beat writings, Diane di Prima's Dinner and Nightmares, Charles Olson's The Maximus Poems, Jack Kerouac's The Scripture of the Golden Eternity and Allen Ginsberg's Empty Mirror. "Ted was very interested in new writing and became interested in the Beat generation," said Joan Wilentz. "He supported lots of projects like [avante-garde literary magazine] Floating Bear edited by Diane di Prima and LeRoi Jones. In fact, Le Roi's wife, Hettie Jones, worked as Ted's secretary for a while. Painter Robert Smithson worked in the store shipping books. Ted would buy paintings from them to support them financially. When he was not publishing, Ted found other ways to support artists and writers--in never-to-be-paid loans to Kerouac or Neal Cassidy, an exchange of a drawing or painting for a few dollars, or just standing them to a meal or beers at the Cedar Street Tavern." In 1967, Wilentz sold his half of the bookstore to his brother (the Eighth Street Bookshop was destroyed by an arson fire in 1976, but thanks to public support, reopened six months later and finally closed in 1979). He held several jobs during the next few years, including manager at Brentano's Fifth Avenue location, manager of the Sierra Club's publications and vice-president of the Gotham Book Mart. He even opened another bookstore, The Discovery Bookstore, which specialized in smaller presses and out of print titles. He closed the bookstore to move to New Haven, Conn., as director of the Yale Co-Op's book department. After seven years in this position, at the age of 65, he decided to retire. But instead of resting, he became a business consultant, helping independent bookstores. In 1980, Wilentz became a minority shareholder in the new book remainder company, Daedalus Books. "Ted came in at a time when we didn't have much money and was a great supporter in terms of financial consultation and moral support," Daedalus president Robin Moody told PW Daily. "He was a very savvy consultant. He would read a financial statement like a novel and knew exactly what that company needed. He was also such a nice man, beloved by everyone. It was a great pleasure to enjoy his sunny optimism. If you were walking down aisles at BEA with him, you couldn't have a goal, because everyone wanted to stop and talk to him." In the 1980s, he served as an overseas volunteer in the International Executive Service Club, an organization that took company presidents to foreign lands to offer advice to struggling businesses. In this capacity, he flew to Kano, Nigeria, spending two months advising bookstores. A successful trip to Cairo, Egypt, followed. For the rest of his life, he continued to work as a book consultant, advising, among others, Jeannette Watson, owner of the Manhattan's Books & Co., which became a literary landmark of its own from 1977 through 1997. "Ted was a believer in talent and it was a wonderful coincidence that he started a bookstore when there was a tremendous amount of excitement in the publishing industry," Joan Wilentz told PW Daily. "There was a new breath of life in fiction and poetry and he was part of it."--Kevin Howell From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Cleaned or restored? Someone would know: I don't. Mounting the lectern, I peruse a few Hectoring large-scale verses, and pronounce "Here endeth" much more loudly than I'd meant. The echoes snigger briefly. Back at the door I sign the book, donate an Irish sixpence, Reflect the place was not worth stopping for. Yet stop I did: in fact I often do, And always end much at a loss like this, Wondering what to look for; wondering, too, When churches fall completely out of use What we shall turn them into, if we shall keep A few cathedrals chronically on show, Their parchment, plate, and pyx in locked cases, And let the rest rent-free to rain and sheep. Shall we avoid them as unlucky places? Or, after dark, will dubious women come To make their children touch a particular stone; Pick simples for a cancer; or on some Advised night see walking a dead one? Power of some sort or other will go on In games, in riddles, seemingly at random; But superstition, like belief, must die, And what remains when disbelief has gone? Grass, weedy pavement, brambles, buttress, sky, A shape less recognizable each week, A purpose more obscure. I wonder who Will be the last, the very last, to seek This place for what it was; one of the crew That tap and jot and know what rood-lofts were? Some ruin-bibber, randy for antique, Or Christmas-addict, counting on a whiff Of gown-and-bands and organ-pipes and myrrh? Or will he be my representative, Bored, uninformed, knowing the ghostly silt Dispersed, yet tending to this cross of ground Through suburb scrub because it held unspilt So long and equably what since is found Only in separation - marriage, and birth, And death, and thoughts of these - for whom was built This special shell? For, though I've no idea What this accoutred frowsty barn is worth, It pleases me to stand in silence here; A serious house on serious earth it is, In whose blent air all our compulsions meet, Are recognised, and robed as destinies. And that much never can be obsolete, Since someone will forever be surprising A hunger in himself to be more serious, And gravitating with it to this ground, Which, he once heard, was proper to grow wise in, If only that so many dead lie round. mbales at cybergate.net From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Imagine, if you will, a city bus in, say, Uptown in Chicago or any place else where a dozen American cultures collide. This anthology is like that. Singaporean feminist poet Shirley Geok-lin Lim is sitting next to Creek Indian Joy Harjo. Hawaiian Garrett Hongo is chatting with street-sounding David Hernandez. Enid Dame is talking about her radical Jewish family to African American Rita Dove. What could be cacophony turns instead into a kind of dissonant love song under the visionary editing of the mother-daughter Gillan team. The voices are vernacular and immediate, the net has been cast wide, and the organization is fine-tuned. An excellent anthology for the most general collections. Pat Monaghan Tammaro/Moorhead, MN From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Chinua Achebe (b. 1930) "An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad's Heart of Darkness" Stuart Hall (b. 1932) "Cultural Studies and Its Theoretical Legacies" Helene Cixous (b. 1937) "The Laugh of the Medusa" Stanley Fish (b. 1938) "Interpreting the Variorum" Homi K. Bhabha (b. 1949) "The Commitment to Theory" 10 Who Didn't John of Salisbury (c. 1110-80) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712-78) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Thomas Babington Macaulay (1800-59) "The Minute on Indian Education" I. A. Richards (1893-1979) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: F. R. Leavis (1895-1978) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: C. L. R. James (1901-89) "Popular Art and Cultural Tradition" Richard Rorty (b. 1931) "Professionalized Philosophy and Transcendentalist Culture" Jerome J. McGann (b. 1937) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Teresa de Lauretis (b. 1938) "Sexual Indifference and Lesbian Representation" Aijaz Ahmad (b. 1945) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The online monthly Big City Lit records its June feature, =E2=80=9COnly the=20= Dead=E2=80=9D=20 (The Vietnam War), on June 15, 6:30-9:30 pm, at Housing Works Used Books &=20 Caf=C3=A9, 126 Crosby Street (subway: Broadway/Lafayette). Free. Contributor= s=20 include Bill Ehrhart, Alan Catlin, Marc Levy, Linh Dinh. Special music=20 feature: jazz violinist and=20 vet, Billy Bang. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: and summer and much less productive in the winter, he found." I have suffered from the same fluctuation in productivity for years. In fact, my mood switched again last week; however, I have usually attributed this to something I call "summer vacation." Also, I remember a number of years back there was an article in _The New York Times_ suggesting Emily's reclusiveness was a result of poor eyesight, a condition called Wall-Eye. --Edward Byrne > An article in today's Washington Post on Emily Dickinson. > > Paul Lake > > http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22628-2001May13.html -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Going Wrong The fish are dreadful. They are brought up the mountain in the dawn most days, beautiful and alien and cold from night under the sea, the grand rooms fading from their flat eyes. Soft machinery of the dark, the man thinks, washing them. "What can you know of my machinery!" demands the Lord. Sure, the man says quietly and cuts into them, laying back the dozen struts, getting to the muck of something terrible. The Lord insists: "You are the one who chooses to live this way. I build cities where things are human. I make Tuscany and you go live with rock and silence." The man washes away the blood and arranges the fish on a big plate. Starts the onions in the hot olive oil and puts in peppers. "You have lived all year without women." He takes out everything and puts in the fish. "No one knows where you are. People forget you. You are vain and stubborn." The man slices tomatoes and lemons. Takes out the fish and scrambles eggs. I am not stubborn, he thinks, laying all of it on the table in the courtyard full of early sun, shadows of swallows flying on the food. Not stubborn, just greedy. Copyright (c) 1994 by Jack Gilbert +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MORE+++ "Zeno's Lemur" by Daniel Halpern: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/features/halpern/ "Measuring the Tyger" and others by Jack Gilbert: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/features/gilbert/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: SONNETS, edited by John Hollander: "Sonnet Reversed" by Rupert Brooke Hand trembling towards hand; the amazing lights Of heart and eye. They stood on supreme heights. Ah, the delirious weeks of honeymoon! Soon they returned, and, after strange adventures, Settled at Balham by the end of June. Their money was in Can. Pacs. B. Debentures, And in Antofagastas. Still he went Cityward daily; still she did abide At home. And both were really quite content With work and social pleasures. Then they died. They left three children (besides George, who drank): The eldest Jane, who married Mr. Bell, William, the head-clerk in the County Bank, And Henry, a stock-broker, doing well. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Read Sonnet # 116 by William Shakespeare and then follow a link to hear poets Linda Gregerson, Mark Doty, W. S. Merwin, and Lloyd Schwartz read it aloud and discuss it on "The Atlantic Online": http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/features/sonnets/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Poem for Adlai Stevenson and Yellow Jackets" by David Young http://www.poets.org/poems/poems.cfm?prmID=2435 -------------------------------- 4. 2001 WALT WHITMAN AWARD WINNER http://www.poets.org/academy/news/pr010409.cfm John Canaday has won the 2001 Walt Whitman Award for his first book-length collection of poems, _The Invisible World_, which will be published by Louisiana State University Press in spring 2002. The winning manuscript was chosen by Sherod Santos from among 1,250 entries in an open competition. The Academy of American Poets has awarded Mr. Canaday a $5,000 cash prize and will purchase at least 10,000 copies of his book for distribution to its members. He will also receive a one-month residency at the Vermont Studio Center. The other finalists were Brian Culhane, K. E. Duffin, Richard K. Hilles, and Roy Alan Jacobstein. See our press release for biographies of the winner and judge, and a comment from Sherod Santos. -------------------------------- 5. 2001 LENORE MARSHALL POETRY PRIZE http://www.poets.org/awards/marshall.cfm The jurors for the 2001 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize have been chosen. They are Ann Lauterbach (head juror), Elaine Equi, and Bob Perelman. The postmark deadline is June 1, 2001 and only books published in a standard edition in 2000 are eligible. Self-published collections are not eligible. Publishers (or authors) should submit four copies of each book. No entry form or documentation is necessary. The finalists will be announced in September, and the winner will be announced in October. -------------------------------- 6. GRILLED SHRIMP WITH MANGO/AVOCADO SALSA Courtesy of famous rock star Matthew Rohrer, whose bag lunches make everyone else at AAP jealous Cut up 1 mango, 1 soft avocado, 2 cloves of garlic, 1 fresh jalape?o pepper, 1 medium tomato, and 1 small onion and put in a bowl. Squeeze juice of 1 lime over it, add salt and cumin. Stir. Refrigerate for at least 1/2 hour. Heat grill, griddle, or saut? pan. In bowl combine cleaned shrimp, some olive oil (enough to coat shrimp), and spice mixture. Spice mixture could be anything you like, e.g., cumin, paprika, cinamon, salt, thyme, etc. Stir to coat shrimp in spices and oil. Add to hot griddle.Cook through.Serve on rice or couscous with salsa. =============================== SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION =============================== You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the Poets.org Update mailing list. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, forward this message or send a blank e-mail to poets.org-unsubscribe at topica.com or visit http://www.topica.com/lists/poets.org/prefs For more information about this list, visit: http://www.topica.com/lists/poets.org -------------------------------- If you have any questions, comments, or complaints about this newsletter, please write to India Amos: webmaster at poets.org. Copyright (c) 2001 by The Academy of American Poets. All rights reserved. http://www.poets.org/ Poetry says it best! 
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--part1_50.15f45348.2836ef9a_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come with me into the world of light and be whole, For the love you thought had been dead a thousand years Is back in town and asking for you. Oh no. I say, I'm done with my kind. I live alone On Walnut Lane, and will until the day I die. 4 Before the tremendous dogs are unleashed, Let's get the little ones inside, let's drag The big bones onto the lawn and clean The Royal Dog Hotel. Gypsy, my love, the end of an age has come. Already, The howls of the great dogs practicing fills the air, And look at that man on all fours dancing under The moon's dumbfounded gaze, and look at that woman Doing the same. The wave of the future has gotten To them and they have responded with all they have: A little step forward, a little step back. And they sway, And their eyes are closed. O heavenly bodies. O bodies of time. O golden bodies of lasting fire. 5 All winter the weather came up with amazing results: The streets and walks had turned to glass. The sky Was a sheet of white. And here was a dog in a phone booth Calling home. But nothing would ease his tiny heart. For years the song of his body was all of his calling. Now It was nothing. Those hymns to desire, songs of bliss Would never return. The sky's copious indigo, The yellow dust of sunlight after rain, were gone. No one was home. The phone kept ringing. The curtains Of sleep were about to be drawn, and darkness would pass Into the world. And so, and so . . . goodbye all, goodbye dog. Copyright (c) 1999 by Mark Strand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Mark Strand at http://www.knopfpoetry.com Read an essay by Mark Strand from his prose collection THE WEATHER OF WORDS at http://www.knopfpoetry.com/studentcenter/essays/ Give us your feedback in the forum at http://www.knopfpoetry.com/studentcenter/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Ladder A man tips back his chair, all evening. Years later, the ladder of small indentations still marks the floor. Walking across it, then stopping. Rarely are what is spoken and what is meant the same. Mostly the mouth says one thing, the thighs and knees say another, the floor hears a third. Yet within us, objects and longings are not different. They twist on the stem of the heart, like ripening grapes. Happiness Is Harder To read a book of poetry from back to front, there is the cure for certain kinds of sadness. A person has only to choose. _What_ doesn???t matter; just _that_??? This coffee. That dress. "Here is the time I would like to arrive." "Today, I will wash the windows." Happiness is harder. Consider the master's description of awakened existence, how seemingly simple: _Hungry, I eat; sleepy, I sleep_. Is this choosing completely, or not at all? In either case, everything seems to conspire against it. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ? 1986. Reprinted by permission of the author. Guide to the Other Gallery This is the hall of broken limbs Where splintered marble athletes lie Beside the arms of cherubim. Nothing is ever thrown away. These butterflies are set in rows. So small and gray inside their case They look alike now. I suppose Death makes most creatures commonplace. These portraits here of the unknown Are hung three high, frame piled on frame. Each potent soul who craved renown, Immortalized without a name. Here are the shelves of unread books, Millions of pages turning brown. Visitors wander through the stacks, But no one ever takes one down. I wish I were a better guide. There's so much more that you should see. Rows of bottles with nothing inside. Displays of locks which have no key. You'd like to go? I wish you could. This room has such a peaceful view. Look at that case of antique wood Without a label. It's for you. Dana Gioia From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ? 1991. Reprinted by permission of the author. The Sunday News Looking for something in the Sunday paper, I flipped by accident through Local Weddings, Yet missed the photograph until I saw your name among the headings. And there you were, looking almost unchanged, Your hair still long, though now long out of style, And you still wore that stiff and serious look You called a smile. I felt as though we sat there face to face. It said too much about both families, Too little about you. Finished at last, I threw the paper down, Stung by jealousy, my mind aflame, Hating this man, this stranger whom you loved, This printed name. And yet I clipped it out to put away Inside a book like something I might use, A scrap I knew I wouldn't read again But couldn't bear to lose. Dana Gioia From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ? 1986. Reprinted by permission of the author. 3 above from: http://www.poemtree.com/ ===== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cervantes: wasanthony at yahoo.com & jvcervantes at earthlink.net Salt River Review: "Ripples" @ Poetserv: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: poetry that veer off from the mainstream. Or not. I left you in the lurch with this thread; I felt it'd only be decent to reply, even at this late date. -Amber -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: 6/26/2001 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "widely accessible" Poet Laureate Amber Prentiss wrote: > > (It's late. I'm hyper. This is long. You are all forewarned.) > > Is material help desperately necessary to advance poetry? No. I certainly did not say it was. But without help, a poet has to work, and unless lucky will have to work at a job that flattens his mind. At the very best, it will only rob him of the leisure to do as much poetry as he otherwise would have. I'm currently reading an interesting book about the Princeton Institute of Advanced Study. Mathematicians and various theoretical scientists are given free rides there to do nothing but think. I claim it helped science. Something similar would help writers. As for audience, when you bring in the "book-minded," you're already an elitist concerned with a small minority. And it is a fact, not nonsense, that the most advanced poetry is difficult beyond the (full) grasp of all but the few just the way advanced mathematics is--although, since it is verbal, some levels of it can (perhaps even, ought to) be accessible (which is not generally the case with mathematics). --Bob G. Poets have no > canvas to stretch, no need to watch their credit balances rise at Dick Blick > or much more than a little time, a little space, a pen, pencil, crayon, and > some paper or, if hard pressed, lipstick and a napkin. Poets seem to me to > be the last ones in need of artistic welfare, except for those truly on > their last financial legs. While it would be nice for anyone to have said to > them, 'Here, I like what you do, have some cash so you can hole up for a > while,' it's really not going to happen. Is someone's poetry going to just > stop if they don't get that grant? I don't think so. > > I will insist on this until I have an asthma attack: Poetry needs the > audience, hell, *an* audience composed of more than poets, and to think that > poetry is too difficult for the book-minded with free time and access to > decent libraries and/or bookstores (who else do you expect to read?), that > poetry is for the elect, is nonsense. Difficult fiction can still make the > big consumer book reviews and occasionally even the bestseller lists. > Difficult art creates controversy in New York. But few people seem to read > contemporary poetry whether it's difficult or not, whether it's awarded or > not, whether it's rhymed or not, long or not, etc. Why the (fill-in) is that > so? Is poetry so hard that even the literary reading public, not absolutely > enormous but there, that seems to have amiably trucked along with plenty of > convoluted isms in the fiction world, can't get it? People have no idea what > contemporary poetry is up to. I'm just barely finding out now (you list-folk > have helped a lot.) It's not even on the radar screen. And it's a damn > shame, because what I think poetry is good at, giving little pills of > emotion and jolting the imagination in what's usually a relatively tiny > space (as compared to a short story or novel), is damn near perfect for a > world with no time and less feeling. No audience for poetry? Unless all > those who compulsively read as children, the numbers filling college > campuses, the people of all stripes who just love curling up with a good > book are absolute dolts, there is one. They just don't know we're here. When > was the last time you read a review in something your mother could pick up > of something other than a long-established poet's New & Selected? How many > handfuls of poetry books written in the last 25 years can you separate from > your local bookstore's stock selection of the classics and the canonized? > That's the dang root of the problem, not some incredibly special nature of > poetry. > > Or so I think. If you got all the way down here, thanks for reading. > > -Amber > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: 6/25/2001 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "widely accessible" Poet Laureate > > Just to set the record straight about myself, I'm an > elitist, so do not bewail poetry's lack of an audience > any more than I bewail mathematics's lack of an audience. > What I bewail is that in this country the best poets > get real recognition from no one but each other, nor > any material help in achieving as much as they could > from those claiming to nurture our culture while > mediocrities, some of them no doubt quite good at > filling out received forms with received techniques, > tonalities, attitudes and subject matter, but none taking > what any sane observer would call aesthetic risks, get the > laurels and grants. But Ted Pelton put it better. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: In the Ring or on the Field, Igor Hummed Although Stravinsky???s fame rests entirely on his musical compositions, he was also a form- idable boxer with a lifetime record of one hundred- and-three wins and only one loss, and that to the brutal Harry S. Truman. But he also loved base- ball and pitched in the minor leagues for some years. His fastball was clocked at 105 mph and he could throw a sinker that left the best batters wondering if the ball had been sucked into the earth by a demon. He composed Patrouchka while on the road with the Kansas City Blues, his team- mates often helped out with difficult passages. While drinking a couple of beers on the bus, he???d hum out loud, and one of the players would say, ???No, Igor, like this, fortissimo.??? Just to Feel Human A single apple grew on our tree, which was some kind of miracle because it was a pear tree. We walked around it scratching our heads. ???You want to eat it???? I asked my wife. ???I???d die first,??? she replied. We went back into the house. I stood by the kitchen window and stared at it. I thought of Adam and Eve, but I didn???t believe in Adam and Eve. My wife said, ???If you don???t stop staring at that stupid apple I???m going to go out there and eat it.??? ???So go,??? I said, ???but take your clothes off first, go naked.??? She looked at me as if I were insane, and then she started to undress, and so did I. Ontario Review #53 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: In the Ring or on the Field, Igor Hummed Although Stravinsky's fame rests entirely on his musical compositions, he was also a form- idable boxer with a lifetime record of one hundred- and-three wins and only one loss, and that to the brutal Harry S. Truman. But he also loved base- ball and pitched in the minor leagues for some years. His fastball was clocked at 105 mph and he could throw a sinker that left the best batters wondering if the ball had been sucked into the earth by a demon. He composed Patrouchka while on the road with the Kansas City Blues, his team- mates often helped out with difficult passages. While drinking a couple of beers on the bus, he'd hum out loud, and one of the players would say, "No, Igor, like this, fortissimo." Just to Feel Human A single apple grew on our tree, which was some kind of miracle because it was a pear tree. We walked around it scratching our heads. "You want to eat it?" I asked my wife. "I'd die first," she replied. We went back into the house. I stood by the kitchen window and stared at it. I thought of Adam and Eve, but I didn't believe in Adam and Eve. My wife said, "If you don't stop staring at that stupid apple I'm going to go out there and eat it." "So go," I said, "but take your clothes off first, go naked." She looked at me as if I were insane, and then she started to undress, and so did I. Ontario Review #53 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: 4. John Ashbery, Some Trees The first full collection of poems from a writer whose seductive and oblique verse has become a salient feature of the landscape of contemporary poetry. 5. Allen Ginsberg, Howl and Other Poems The 1957 obscenity trial the book provoked brought mass attention to the Beat movement. The Encyclopedia Britannica says that Ginsberg is the "American poet whose epic poem Howl is considered to be one of the most significant products of the Beat movement." 6. Hans Magnus Enzensberger, The Sinking of the Titanic In this sharply observed book-length series of poems, Enzensberger's political acuteness and his profoundly European sense of irony are brought into play in a cinematic survey of capitalism, greed and the decline of the West. 7. George Seferis, Collected Poems Seferis was a Greek poet, essayist and diplomat who won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1963. The Keeley and Sherrard book was the first large-scale English translation, bringing into the English-speaking world a fresh and haunting world-view and a powerful voice that spoke for three thousand years of poetry that had shaped the way Europe had viewed itself. 8. Blaise Cendrars, Selected Writings The challenge of a maverick, and vagabond, who went far beyond the surrealist paths of Apollinaire... Cendrars was a French-speaking poet and essayist who created a powerful new poetic style to express a life of action and danger. His poems P?ques ? New York (1912; "Easter in New York") and La Prose du Transsib?rien et de la petite Jehanne de France (1913; "The Prose of the Trans-Siberian and of Little Jehanne of France") are combination travelogues and laments. His abundant, mainly autobiographical writings were a strong influence on his contemporaries, especially the Henry Miller of Tropic of Cancer, which would be unimaginable without the influence of his hero Cendrars. 9. Fernando Pessoa, Selected Poems Pessoa was a poet whose part in Modernism gave Portuguese literature European significance. He began publishing books of English poetry in 1918, but it was not until 1934 that his first book in Portuguese, Mensagem, appeared. It attracted little attention. Fame came to Pessoa after his death in 1935, when his extraordinarily rich dream world, peopled with alter egos or "heteronyms," whose poetry he produced along with his own, became generally known. Though the works of the imaginary poets differ in outlook and style from the work done under Pessoa's own name, taken together they express different personalities that he felt to exist within himself. The most important of his works are Poesias de Fernando Pessoa (1942), Poesias de ?lvaro de Campos (1944), Poemas de Alberto Caeiro (1946) and Odes de Ricardo Reis (1946). 10. Ern Malley, The Darkening Ecliptic This book gathered the hoax poems written collaboratively in 1943 under the pseudonym "Ern Malley" by the young conservative poets James McAuley and Harold Stewart and originally published in the avant-garde magazine Angry Penguins in Adelaide, Australia, in 1944. Their mix of fractured surreal images and almost Elizabethan diction was meant to satirize the New Apocalypse movement and its followers such as Dylan Thomas and Henry Treece, and then self-destruct. Instead, they lived on long after their mission had been completed, puzzling and intriguing readers (such as long-time fan John Ashbery, who discovered the book in a Boston bookstore) with the haunting strangeness of their bricolage effects. NOTES 1 On Wyndham Lewis and Blast: "BLAST signifies something constructive and destructive. It means the blowing away of old ideas and worn-out notions." Daily News, April 7, 1914. 2 All lists have been placed in chronological order, unless otherwise indicated. 3 Rather than placing the texts in chronological order, Schulman has chosen to order them according to "the relative impact of their invention." 4 Richard Hugo, The Lady in Kicking Horse Reservoir (WW. Norton, 1973). 5 Delmore Schwartz, Summer Knowledge: New and Selected Poems (Doubleday, 1959). 6 The order of Rodriguez's list is not intended to reflect relative impact. 7 The order of Tranter's list reflects the texts' "importance to contemporary poetry." From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: pure products of America" and "so much depends"—poems that "freed-up" more than one generation of poets writing after the Moderns. > > Which leads me to Robert Lowell's Life Studies and Sylvia Plath's Ariel. I put these on the list because there is no dismissing the impact the turn to a so-called "confessional" voice has had on poetry in the twentieth century, and these two books are, in my opinion, the first and only ground-breakers on that front. > > Finally, I have chosen Adrienne Rich's The Dream of a Common Language and Seamus Heaney's Field Work for the influence they have had on a "post-confessional" generation of poetry readers and writers. These two books were published nearly simultaneously in the United States, and they are remarkable for their turn towards a desire for "witness" in poetry. While Heaney and Rich have had different projects in mind (for Heaney, the Troubles in Northern Ireland; for Rich, the oppression of patriarchal language), their respective breakthroughs in these mid-career volumes show what it means to write poetry that forces readers to re-consider their notion of a world that has changed significantly since the publication of The Waste Land. > > > John Tranter 7 > EDITOR, JACKET > > > > 1. Arthur Rimbaud, Collected Poems, translated and edited by Oliver Bernard (1962) > 2. W.H. Auden, On This Island (1937) > 3. T.S. Eliot, Prufrock and Other Observations (1917) > 4. John Ashbery, Some Trees (1956) > 5. Allen Ginsberg, Howl and Other Poems (1956) > 6. Hans Magnus Enzensberger, The Sinking of the Titanic, translated by the author (1981) > 7. George Seferis, Collected Poems 1924-1955, translated by Edmund Keeley and Philip Sherrard (1969) > 8. Blaise Cendrars, Selected Writings of Blaise Cendrars, edited by Walter Albert (1966) > 9. Fernando Pessoa, Selected Poems, edited by Jonathan Griffin (1982) > 10. Ern Malley, The Darkening Ecliptic (1944) > > > > > > > 1. Arthur Rimbaud, Collected Poems > Rimbaud's political and aesthetic revolution was carried out almost single-handedly by a teenage boy, and laid the foundations for Modernism in France. Bernard's translations made all the works available for an English reader in clear, striking prose versions, with the French on the same page. > > 2. W.H. Auden, On This Island > Though Poems (1930) set up Auden as the smart young poet to watch, On This Island saw his verse reach out to find a wider audience and start the process that made his poetry famous. In Auden a blend of imagery from Anglo-Saxon verse, the Icelandic sagas, Freud, Marx and contemporary cinema fuses into a quintessentially "modern" tone. > > 3. T.S. Eliot, Prufrock and Other Observations > From the appearance of this, Eliot's first volume, the 20th-century poetic revolution begins in English. It represented a break with the immediate past as radical as that, which Coleridge and Wordsworth achieved in Lyrical Ballads (1798). > > 4. John Ashbery, Some Trees > The first full collection of poems from a writer whose seductive and oblique verse has become a salient feature of the landscape of contemporary poetry. > > 5. Allen Ginsberg, Howl and Other Poems > The 1957 obscenity trial the book provoked brought mass attention to the Beat movement. The Encyclopedia Britannica says that Ginsberg is the "American poet whose epic poem Howl is considered to be one of the most significant products of the Beat movement." > > 6. Hans Magnus Enzensberger, The Sinking of the Titanic > In this sharply observed book-length series of poems, Enzensberger's political acuteness and his profoundly European sense of irony are brought into play in a cinematic survey of capitalism, greed and the decline of the West. > > 7. George Seferis, Collected Poems > Seferis was a Greek poet, essayist and diplomat who won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1963. The Keeley and Sherrard book was the first large-scale English translation, bringing into the English-speaking world a fresh and haunting world-view and a powerful voice that spoke for three thousand years of poetry that had shaped the way Europe had viewed itself. > > 8. Blaise Cendrars, Selected Writings > The challenge of a maverick, and vagabond, who went far beyond the surrealist paths of Apollinaire... Cendrars was a French-speaking poet and essayist who created a powerful new poetic style to express a life of action and danger. His poems P?ques ? New York (1912; "Easter in New York") and La Prose du Transsib?rien et de la petite Jehanne de France (1913; "The Prose of the Trans-Siberian and of Little Jehanne of France") are combination travelogues and laments. His abundant, mainly autobiographical writings were a strong influence on his contemporaries, especially the Henry Miller of Tropic of Cancer, which would be unimaginable without the influence of his hero Cendrars. > > 9. Fernando Pessoa, Selected Poems > Pessoa was a poet whose part in Modernism gave Portuguese literature European significance. He began publishing books of English poetry in 1918, but it was not until 1934 that his first book in Portuguese, Mensagem, appeared. It attracted little attention. Fame came to Pessoa after his death in 1935, when his extraordinarily rich dream world, peopled with alter egos or "heteronyms," whose poetry he produced along with his own, became generally known. Though the works of the imaginary poets differ in outlook and style from the work done under Pessoa's own name, taken together they express different personalities that he felt to exist within himself. The most important of his works are Poesias de Fernando Pessoa (1942), Poesias de ?lvaro de Campos (1944), Poemas de Alberto Caeiro (1946) and Odes de Ricardo Reis (1946). > > 10. Ern Malley, The Darkening Ecliptic > This book gathered the hoax poems written collaboratively in 1943 under the pseudonym "Ern Malley" by the young conservative poets James McAuley and Harold Stewart and originally published in the avant-garde magazine Angry Penguins in Adelaide, Australia, in 1944. Their mix of fractured surreal images and almost Elizabethan diction was meant to satirize the New Apocalypse movement and its followers such as Dylan Thomas and Henry Treece, and then self-destruct. Instead, they lived on long after their mission had been completed, puzzling and intriguing readers (such as long-time fan John Ashbery, who discovered the book in a Boston bookstore) with the haunting strangeness of their bricolage effects. > > > > > > NOTES > > 1 On Wyndham Lewis and Blast: "BLAST signifies something constructive and destructive. It means the blowing away of old ideas and worn-out notions." Daily News, April 7, 1914. > > 2 All lists have been placed in chronological order, unless otherwise indicated. > > 3 Rather than placing the texts in chronological order, Schulman has chosen to order them according to "the relative impact of their invention." > > 4 Richard Hugo, The Lady in Kicking Horse Reservoir (WW. Norton, 1973). > > 5 Delmore Schwartz, Summer Knowledge: New and Selected Poems (Doubleday, 1959). > > 6 The order of Rodriguez's list is not intended to reflect relative impact. > > 7 The order of Tranter's list reflects the texts' "importance to contemporary poetry." > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, quotes, news items, calls for submissions, and, of course, poems and your commentary. Note: You are invited to post your own poems occasionally; but please limit yourself to one poem per month. Warning: The list is unmoderated; however, posters who engage in name calling, cursing, or other kinds of aggressive or derisive postings outside the bounds of civilized discussion, will be banned Finnegan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The butter of a pause and the chewing of agreement. The curious thing is that they talked About nothing in particular, And nothing they said was news: The feel of an old rope in the hand On a good morning, sturdy pants that fit, The smell of creosote after rain in the hills So strong even the rabbits come out To feel it in the air. For Mr. R?os and Mr. Diaz it was an uncommon day, And they never spoke of it again. But for an afternoon and an evening, They were in each other's company And in love with the world. Alberto R?os Prairie Schooner Volume 72, Number 4 Winter 1998 ------------------------------------------------ Richard W. Wilsnack Department of Neuroscience University of North Dakota School of Medicine & Health Sciences Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And I could see it like a ghost remain. I could not make myself scrub that stain away. Yet more than I had done before I shut myself inside and would not let My husband call me out. He'd say to me: 'The April rains have thawed the earth. 'Now the hawthorne buds lip the sunning air 'And petals ice the river's slipping waters, 'A better day perhaps we'll never know! 'Come out!' But I said go. 'I'll follow you another day.' He went. I did not know he'd never ask again Or that the road he took I could not also! I, who loved him, could not! I loved him! I Will still take off my shoes when I've come home And I will sweep the tables and the floors And clean the shelves with all that I still keep, But now windows I'll leave open, doors I'll prop to let the breeze come through at night; And dust comes in. I see it in my bed; And dust, I see it in my house! I see It on myself. Before my husband left I still remember what he said: 'Come out! 'Perhaps a smile and tear before we go 'Is all we ever truly come to know.' And I said no I would not come that day With him who was my laughter and my tears! Now I am ready for the world. Now I Am ready for the earth to have me back. When my colors all are faded, when this Is all the imprint of myself that still remains- This house, its open doors and windows-this Will all be empty. This dust that fills my house Will all have been swept out. Look for me Some other way. I'll have gone some other place. Come Out! April 15 1997 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Vice-Presidents of insurance companies, nor property developers, nor litigation lawyers, the poor things, but does have a very immediate and personal feel to persons who might be telephone operators, for instance, especially if they live in a culture that is predicated on status-snobbery. I always recall an anecdote about Stevens: when he died one of his golfing buddies was addressed by a newshound: 'What, Wal, a poet?' said said buddy. Some of the Stevens poems are brilliant, the funny ones especially, but his social and political attitudes stank, he thought Eisenhower a dangerous radical, for Christ's sake. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Bales" To: ; Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: American Icons > > What I have is a hierarchy of occupations in which some rank higher > > than others with regard to value for other human beings, Marcus. I > > suspect this does not make me unique among human beings. I might add > > that there are many occupations that seem to me worse than Stevens's. > > I agree having such a hierarchy of occupations doesn't make you > unique; and in all likelihood your stated propensity for looking down > on some doesn't make you unique, either. It is, however, unusual > to find someone so willing to openly declare that being a lawyer for > an insurance company is an occupation to look down on. > > But common as it may be to have a hierarchy of occupations, it > seems to me that we ought not "look down" on people because of > their occupations. It seems to me that the notion of "look down > on" is a notion of moral judgment and that it is, thus, not a notion > that lends itself readily to such a broad-brush generalization as that > all insurance men, or all lawyers, or even all insurance lawyers, are > to be looked down on. > > > mbales at cybergate.net > http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: So's I ain't any lenger recognizable to me maw, But in the end When I bend The general consensus is I'm even scarier. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Of our Lexingtons and Alamos With the blood bathos of worn technique. Or the pity patterson of little feet Chasing little, domestic thoughts Like a shit smeared child grinning Ear-to-ear, proud of what it's wrought. So where in this fair Republic Hides the verse we should all hold close? Should I ask Phil Levine in his denim While before a factory we pose? Should I run ask old Stanley Kunitz Where the anthems in his dirty laundry lie? Should I ask the crimson main of Jorie Graham If it is more poetic to die and dye. Should I ask Gary Snyder if his silent Bhuddy is sittin' his fat ass on the way. Or should I ask Rita Dove what Makes a poem fall like a souffle. Or should I shuck the ghost of Berryman From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Or should I rush to stop the Ferryman Before he shuttles Ammons to crispy immutability. Should I juju Weldon Kees car keys? Should I ouija up Sexton or Plath? Or any of the hermetics Of the Solipsist's bloodbath? Should I like Poe drag Poe From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Should I grift a backhoe And interrogate Walt? Should I rouse old Emily in a s?ance? See if under her skirts is concealed what I must know? Should I spill chicken blood on the mouldy pants Of John Greenleaf Whittier and Henry 'The Rake' Longfellow? Should I ask the salon of poets That are proud to lead with their asses Why the beauty they say they so pine for Requires think tanks of hired assassins? Or ask little Hilty Kramer Who this immigrant once terrified If he might not better appreciate campesino verse If U.S. blood money financed his last ride. Or ask the "leftist" poet about The subversions of the signified That result from becoming a market analyst And, beard shorn, incognito going along for the ride. Or all the talentless, disillusioned boobs Wandering the wonderless ivory halls Scouring the office, the Safeway, and personal grief For poetry no bigger than their cubicles. So I'm sorry to have bothered you My dear, dear patriot-poet Freneau. You weren't no great shakes yourself But, at least, this you had the grace to know. "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" wrote: > Pelt-down Man > > By Yaso Adiodi > > I've worn the seat of my suit away > To reveal my derriere. > My suit was cut mohair but my > Buttocks are even hairier. > My face is a fright, > Having once been alight > >From a flame throwers drunken guffaw, > So's I ain't any lenger recognizable to me maw, > But in the end > When I bend > The general consensus is > I'm even scarier. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Robert Hass, Gary Snyder, Francisco X. Alarc=F3n, Maxine Hong Kingston & Gri= to=20 Serpentino headline this year's Watershed Poetry Festival, a free day of=20 poetry, music and interactive environmental events celebrating the connectio= n=20 between nature & the literary imagination, at Berkeley's Civic Center Park,=20 Saturday, September 8, noon-5 pm. http://poetry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.poetr= yfla sh.org%2Fwatershed.html --part1_152.10967a.28bda314_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From Mark Baldridge at Poetry Flash:
Robert Hass, Gary Snyder, Francisco X. Alarc=F3n, Maxine Hong Kingston &= amp; Grito=20
Serpentino headline this year's Watershed Poetry Festival, a free day of= =20
poetry, music and interactive environmental events celebrating the conne= ction=20
between nature & the literary imagination, at Berkeley's Civic Cente= r Park,=20
Saturday, September 8, noon-5 pm.
http://poetry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.p= oetryfla

sh.org%2Fwatershed.html
--part1_152.10967a.28bda314_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Douglas Oliver - Of bigotry and idealism | Nikos Gatsos trans Vasili Stavropoulos - Amorgos | Harold Pinter - Out of the barrel of a gun | Denise Bonal | Blida, or the little rose of the Sahel | Pierre Joris - Collage and post-collage | Carlyle Reedy -Untitled | John Mateer - Indonesian diary | Lawrence Upton - Three poems | Leonard Abrams - Kids on the block | James Graham - Photo essay: Paris Journal Best wishes Alison Croggon Editor Alison Croggon Home page http://users.bigpond.com/acroggon/ Masthead http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: was without an almost religious faith in Laura Riding Jackson. You can strike "almost" too. --part1_16a.209e8c3.28f35d85_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/8/2001 2:43:07 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes:


I know that language poets, like Charles Bernstein,
have been interested in (Riding) Jackson. This strikes
me as a little strange because it seems to me
she would reject any writing that was without
an almost religious faith in words.
Finnegan


From what I've read in the Graves bios she would also reject any writing that was without an almost religious faith in Laura Riding Jackson.  You can strike "almost" too. --part1_16a.209e8c3.28f35d85_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: a shred of self-pity. Some sweetness, no bitterness, couple of tangos--who could ask for more? Candice From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ~Ezekiel 7:11~ Violence is risen up into a rod of wickedness: none of them shall remain, nor of their multitude, nor of any of theirs: neither shall there be wailing for them. ======================== O Lord I Pray ~By Monique Nicole Fox~ http://www.postpoems.com/members/mnfoxx/ O Lord, destroy evil and Satan O Lord, destroy violence and hating O Lord, destroy Terrorist O Lord, destroy the bad in our midst Let them feel your fury; diminish them with your fist O Lord help the USA ease much sadness and pain. Many are upset and thoroughly pissed. O Lord comfort the grievers and injured that exist. O Lord please assist. Amen! ~Psalms 55:9~ Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city. ~Ezekiel 7:23~ Make a chain: for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence. ~Zephaniah 1:9~ In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit. ~Jeremiah 6:7~ As a fountain casteth out her waters, so she casteth out her wickedness: violence and spoil is heard in her; before me continually is grief and wounds. ======================== O FAITHLESS GENERATION ~By Monique Nicole Fox~ http://www.postpoems.com/members/mnfoxx/ Just think about it Something's happen for a reason We are in the millennium A faithless season That is harvesting sin and evil like hijackers, murderers, rapist, thieves, and spy treason like adulterers, shady politicians, embezzlers, drug dealers, liars, and cons who bring about meaningless and senseless death and destruction like that at the World Trade Center, PA, and the Pentagon Why? Cause so, so many aren't walking with God And keeping the spiritual and righteousness near And have lost touch with God Almighty, the heavenly icon And have not followed the commandments or laws of the bible or the Qur'an Faith, trust, and obedience in God everyone needs to slip-on If not, be ready for more of God's fist of fury and more lives will be gone ~Matthew 17:17~ Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. ~Mark 9:19~ He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. ~Luke 9:41~ And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. ================================== A 9/11/2001 INTERPRETATION ~By Monique Nicole Fox~ http://www.postpoems.com/members/mnfoxx/ The child of God, The son of man, The daughter of woman must suffer many things and be slain by airplane crashes, fatal navigation such aweful terrorization much death and devastation that saddened a nation causing the country to be shut down; a time of evacuation a time of trials and tribulation The USA was shocked and surprised by the incidents, by the entire situation No warning or anticipation However, the attacks did come with a warning in the bible; a scripture germination These events definitely were not an accident but acts of premeditation Premeditation by God? Yes! What was God's motivation? Maybe it was for us to get closer to God; find salvation Maybe it was for us to find peace in the Lord; spiritual unification Maybe it was for us forgetting to give God glorification Maybe it was for us to cease temptation and let the Lord be our foundation in this o faithless millennium, in this o faithless USA population in this o faithless generation The child of God, The son of man, The daughter of woman must suffer many things and be slain by a culprit found up high in heavenly circulation It is God that gets this accreditation It is God that caused this complication ~Mark 8:31~ And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. ~Mark 9:12~ And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And {yet} how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt? ~Luke 9:22~ saying, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and be raised up on the third day." ~Luke 17:25~ "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. ================================= SUFFER & RISE ~By Monique Nicole Fox~ Suffer now and later rise to a new found faith & God's loving embrace Suffer now and later ise to walk in the light of the Lord & end Statn's chase Suffer now and later rise to the richness of the Almighty's righteousness & grace Suffer now and later rise to see God's presence everywhere & look God in the face Suffer now and later rise to heaven as an angel & you'll be in a glorious place ~Acts 9:16~ For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: David, I won't bother to dis Collins....but he's at least two full tiers below Gilbert in my personal pantheon. The above poem should show that Gilbert is capable of strong imagery. (I'll post "Measuring the Tyger" when I have a chance...if more imagery/metaphor is your measure of poem's heft.) David, I think you're missing the audacity it takes for any poet in this day & age to craft a poem with only rhetoric (sans hard visual imagery). It's not easy to pull off....it takes a master poet. It's a lot like people who say of abstract art (say a DeKooning), "A child could do that"...But it only looks easy...creating weight/affect without visual/narrative representation is difficult. Lots more variation in those lines quuted, than you \ suggest, I think; and nice use of repetition, too. (However, this title poem which have you posted is hardly characteristic of Gilbert's poetry as a whole...I hope you weren't purposefully suggesting that it is...and your blindspot toward Gilbert must be large as the Grand Canyon in order to compare him even in a single poem to Gilbran...you couldn't possibly if you'd read Monolithos or The Great Fires beginning to end.) "The Great Fires" poem does operate as credo...one of Gilbert's important and recurring themes: the nature of love; and how is it played out through passion and in ordinary moments spent together. Finnegan > But as for words *mattering* more to Jack Gilbert than to Billy Collins, > well, I remain more than puzzled by such an opinion. > > Let me give an example. Here's the opening of Jack Gilbert's poem "The > Great Fires": > > Love is apart from all things. > Desire and excitement are nothing beside it. > It is not the body that finds love. > What leads us there is the body. > What is not love provokes it. > What is not love quenches it. > Love lays hold of everything we know. > The passions which are called love > also change everything to a newness > at first. Passion is clearly the path > but does not bring us to love. > It opens the castle of our spirit > so that we might find the love which is > a mystery hidden there. > Love is one of many great fires. . . . > _______________ > > In terms of idea, I find that a gaseous collection of vague platitudes. In > terms of diction, it's hardly fresh or flavorful to my mind. And what else > is there? No interesting metaphor, image, anecdote, rhythm, etc. > > This is more a question for Jim Finnegan, I guess: but what distinguishes > the above from Khalil Gibran? > > David Graham From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: in the day. And, yes, there are women in the book....in fact their presence is felt to some degree in almost every poem. Michiko, who is dead, figures in a number of the poems, like the one below. This one, "Measuring the Tyger," might undercut David's tag of "minimalism." (Not that there aren't poems, esp. in Monoliithos, poems made with just a few brushstrokes of image & thought... minimal in the way certain Chinese poetry/painting might be described as minimal.) If you want Gilbert in the maximal mode, one could go back to the early Yale Younger Poets' collection, Views of Jeopardy, and read "Pewter." Finnegan ---- from the Great Fires by Jack Gilbert Measuring the Tyger Barrels of chains. Sides of beef stacked in vans. Water buffalo dragging logs of teak in the river mud outside Mandalay. Pantocrater in the Byzantium dome. The mammoth overhead crane bringing slabs of steel through the dingy light and roar to the giant shear that cuts the adamantine three-quarter-inch plates and they flop down. The weight of the mind fractures the girders and piers of the spirit, spilling out the heart's melt. Incandescent ingots big as cars trundling out of titanic mills, red slag scaling off the brighter metal in the dark. The Monongahela River below, night's sheen its belly. Silence except for the machinery clanging deeper in us. You will love again, people say. Give it time. Me with time running out. Day after day of the everyday. What they call real life, made of eighth-inch gauge. Newness strutting around as if it were significant. Irony, neatness and rhyme pretending to be poetry. I want to go back to that time after Michiko's death when I cried every day among the trees. To the real. To the magnitude of pain, of being that much alive. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "poverty,'' cutting firewood, keeping a large garden and doing farm labor by day, and making money with "hack writing'' at night -- free-lance reviews, essays and articles for newspapers and journals. When all the necessary work was done, only then did Carruth work on his art. "I always put off my own work, until the end,'' he explained. "I'd get finished with the hackwork maybe around midnight or one in the morning, and then I would write a poem, if I had an idea for one.'' "It was hard -- I worked hard, but it didn't seem exceptional,'' Carruth added. "Almost everyone in that region, my neighbors and other people, were all working hard. That's the only way you can make it up there.'' It is that empathy, as much as the rigor and earthy beauty of country life, that signifies Carruth's art. In "Dr. Jazz,'' he remembers the great black sax pioneer Sidney Bechet reduced to playing with an inferior local band with "your fuzzy white head, in your rumpled navy serge ... lost in the bad shadows ... .'' In another poem, he admits that killing "even a nearly brainless pike or totally brainless broccoli unnerves me.'' And in a poem addressed to a friend, he insists, "you must learn again to live in common shame, as in the days of slavery and the massacres of the natives.'' The sting of injustice has fueled his perceptions since his earliest days. "When I was a kid, when I was in grammar school and read about anything like (slavery), it upset me terribly. I would read about Alexander's sacking of the towns in Asia Minor and be undone for a week.'' Contradictions: Like Whitman, Carruth's contradictions are his defining virtue. He is a poet of praise and despair, erudite and earthy, accessible and unattainable. A devotee of life as an almost mystical force, he has nonetheless anticipated his own death in his poems for more than 20 years. A lifelong atheist, his new book has a series of missives set in the afterlife. Carruth is equally at home around chain saws or existentialism, Bix Beiderbecke or Homer. His vocabulary is both learned and loopy (in one poem, he is "memorious,'' in another, the earth is "rucklemuck''). And as for love poems, no one can express tenderness and devotion more profoundly, or invoke the F-word more lustfully -- sometimes in the same poem. For more than a decade, Carruth's muse has been his fourth wife, poet Joe-Anne McLaughlin, whom he calls in the new book "my beautiful ardent woman.'' McLaughlin, who is some 30 years younger than Carruth, assiduously guards his health and well-being. Carruth is inspired both by the world of solid things and the realm of philosophical abstractions. "In ultimate terms,'' he wrote in his 1998 autobiography "Reluctantly,'' "all things in reality are part of reality, and hence are equal. ... (E)verything is equivalent, every pebble and masterpiece, every atom and thought of love.'' Justice, he terms, "the reason for our work.'' Beauty is the element in art "that infects you -- that's what it's supposed to do.'' Jazz, quoting Jelly Roll Morton's song "Dr. Jazz,'' "gets (you) fixed'' when you're "muddled, bound and mixed.'' Rising stature: Long a "poet's poet,'' Carruth has over the past 10 years seen his critical stature and readership rise. His prodigious talent was widely recognized with the publication of his "Collected Shorter Poems.'' That book, containing more than 200 poems, won a National Book Critics Circle award in 1991. Five years later, Carruth received the 1996 National Book Award for "Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey,'' a collection of new work. Wednesday, the Poetry Society of America -- the high church of mainstream poetry -- will present a tribute to Carruth at the Cooper Union in New York City. Co-sponsored by New York's literary elite, including the Academy of American Poets, Poets House and New York University, the event is a long-overdue peer celebration for a man who lived his entire career far from Manhattan's circles of influence. The celebration, both an 80th birthday jam and publication party, will feature readings by Carruth friends Adrienne Rich and Galway Kinnell, among others. Carruth is also expected to attend, and read from his new book. "Dr. Jazz'' finds him meditating on death, which is also the subtext of his essay "Notes on Emphysema'' in the current issue of Harper's magazine. During an interview, however, the subject of mortality is simply too enormous to chitchat about. "Everybody goes through it,'' he said. "There isn't anything I can say about it. It's the topic of about half the poetry that's ever been written.'' "And the other half,'' I said, "is poetry of devotion?'' "That's not a bad parley, as a friend of mine once said. The thing that struck me when I was a kid, and has stayed with me ever since, is that there's a terrible conflict in nature. Nature is invention and growth and color and action, all these things, but it is also death, a kind of betrayal. There isn't anything you can do about it.'' As he spoke, Carruth gestured out the window. The October sunlight was still bright. Snow was forecast, but for the time being the sky was blue. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: book publication, five copies. Send full-length manuscript, $20 reading fee, $5 for copy of winning book, SASE by December 1, 2001 to Word Press, P.O. Box 541106, Cincinnati, OH 45254-1106. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Roger. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Spacks" To: Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 19:04 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Palestinian Poet, Lannan Award > thanks, Terry, for an important post. > > Barry > _____________________________________ > At 01:13 PM 10/28/01 EST, you wrote: > > >>David and Barry, > > >Thanks for your interesting replies. David, you are correct that Sharon's > >Dome of the Rock visit was the immediate provocation--or perhaps excuse--for > >the intifada. The whole thing made me crazy at the time since the visit was > >such a blatantly obvious provocation during this post-Camp David period--and > >even more because the Palestinians so predictably took the bait almost > >instantaneously, digging another hole for themselves, a skill set they have > >perfected over many years. You hate to see predictable events happen and > >dominoes fall like that and know there is nothing you can do about it. > > > >Fact is, though, this would have been a far less inflammatory environment > had > >Arafat come home with a signed piece of paper from Camp David, which he, > >foolishly, did not, holding out for the last 10% of his "demands" which > >hardly qualifies as negotiation. My main point here is that neither Sharon's > >provocation nor Arafat's refusal to get serious about a peace treaty has > >anything whatsoever to do with American policy, which, whether the Clinton > >flavor or the Bush flavor, has, at least since the mid-1970s, always > >supported peace between these two entities. Unfortunately, as Barry > >indicates, that will require some willingness on both sides to encase 5000 > >years of history in concrete and bury it. I am not optimistic, and I am not > >sure what foreign policy will work as long as some parties remain on either > >side whose sole aim in life is to keep the killing going. > > > >There is much that is intractable in the Middle East, much that the people > >over there really have no intention of solving. The Isreali settlements are > >an incredible obstacle on one hand. On the other, so is the fact that > >Palestinians decorate their downtowns with huge color banners of their > latest > >"martyrs," flacking them like pop stars and inspiring more young people to > >aspire to this kind of posthumous fame instead of encouraging them to help > >their own people by becoming productive members of society. It is a kind of > >religious nihilism that is difficult for a Western mind to penetrate and a > >hell of a stupid fate to hard-sell to young people. > > > >Our main failure in foreign policy, in my mind, has been our short attention > >span when it comes to follow-through, a natural consequence of the way our > >society has been allowed to and encouraged to evolve in the latter half of > >the 20th century. From not helping Saddam's opposition to topple him after > >the Gulf War, to simply picking up and going home after helping the > >Afghanis--and bin Laden!--whittle down the Soviet invaders--leaving these > >hapless people to anarchy and chaos that resulted in the Taliban--we tend to > >just like to get back to our party after our immediate objectives are > >accomplished. It is this that has to stop. It is this kind of tone-deafness > >to the eventual and inevitable consequences of incomplete interventions that > >is fatal and that makes enemies out of once-trusting allies. Whether we > >should even be making these interventions at all is another topic for a > >different kind of discussion board. > > > >Meanwhile, on the poetry front, which is sort of what kicked all these > >discussions off, I was reminded by a backchannel correspondent of an > >excellent book I should have mentioned. So, may I recommend an anthology of > >Arab-American poets entitled "Grape Leaves," edited by one of the poets I > >mentioned in a previous post, Greg Orfalea? My copy is, alas, in storage at > >the moment, but I believe it was published by the Univ. of Colorado press > >circa '89-90. I can't give you a better citation right now. It is an > >intriguing and varied anthology with a wide variety of views and an > >informative historical intro by the editors that really helps put things in > >context. It is this type of volume, I think, that had ought to be winning > >awards. I suspect, however, that only a select few poets and teachers have > >ever read it. > > > >--Terry Ponick > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: to a selection of Williams' poems: "His passion for the anti-poetic is a blood-passion and not a passion of the inkpot. The anti-poetic is his spirit's cure. He needs it as a naked man needs shelter or as an animal needs salt. To a man with a sentimental side the anti-poetic is that truth, that reality to which all of us are forever fleeing. " From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Bob, who found softer things hard to swallow, Choked to death on a sticky marshmallow. At his last, wistful ugh, His wife uttered a laugh, Which he found, while he could, rather callow. * "Bastille Day" For this best of all army parades I obtained a seat in the fa?ades And the tears brought an ache To my graying mustache As I heard the tanks rumbling in Hades David Kellogg Director, Writing in the Disciplines Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing Duke University (919) 668-1615; FAX (919) 681-0637 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg --------------2FCD7FAFD440992A5F2535DB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are from "The Poet's Eye," a collection of eye-rhyme poems.
 

from "Marriage of Two Minds: Received Visions"

4.

She dreams of children and his joy thereat
    He dreams his son won't need a pacifier
He dreams of greedy children as a threat
    She dreams her daugher's a great financier

He dreams their son's less gay than is alleged
    She dreams they adopt an aborigine
She dreams their son pays debts where he's reneged
    He dreams of being his daughter's valentine

She dreams at least one son trains as a priest
    He dreams his songs are sly individuals
He dreams their children stay the brainiest
    She dreams their kids devour her home-made victuals

    He dreams their boy rows oceans in a dingy
    She dreams, unwashed, her girl's hair's still not dingy

6.

She dreams their love's revived by exotic travel
    He dreams of arms coaxing him to unwind
He dreams of Thai masseuses licking his navel
    She dreams of passions like _Gone with the Wind_

He dreams of girls who keep on getting younger
    She dreams of being abducted to the Troad
She dreams of sunny cruises in a lounger
    He dreams of laying some hot, illiterate broad

She dreams of spasms she never will forget
    He dreams of romance à la Harlequin
He dreams of Jaguar following Chevrolet
    She dreams some man will lure her to her ruin

    He dreams she's in the dark re his young singer
    She dreams, being burnt, how best to singe the singer

From "Eye-Rhyme Limericks"

Bob, who found softer things hard to swallow,
Choked to death on a sticky marshmallow.
    At his last, wistful ugh,
    His wife uttered a laugh,
Which he found, while he could, rather callow.

*

"Bastille Day"

For this best of all army parades
I obtained a seat in the façades
    And the tears brought an ache
    To my graying mustache
As I heard the tanks rumbling in Hades
 
 

David Kellogg
Director, Writing in the Disciplines
Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing
Duke University
(919) 668-1615; FAX (919) 681-0637
http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg
  --------------2FCD7FAFD440992A5F2535DB-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The phoenix peering, defenestrated, through cold At (from the cream) the roe's stare like a buttonhold Rosette; coursing, from foxes' mutant pluck, old hunts To disaster; limp Coriolanus hacked by runts; Humpty Dumpty's cap crocked. All these your ears withhold: You only whose certain wits sheave parching wings and suck Assurance like a spring from this fagged stream's bed -- tuck Me in its flux like an oar in the cleft of the thole Of your eyes! I am still theirs, hard-felt (if, as well, hung On cheeks, lips -- thus of the wetted rose the strass soul Kissed the lobed rifts) and deeper than any tongue. _L'Homme Mal Arm?_ XIV. You're a pain, and as long as you hang around, I'll keep playing the field. You're a kvetch, and if you don't give me some room, there are friendlier beds. If you can't keep your potato nose out of my affairs, prettier faces can console me. What makes a dope like you so sure of herself? I know my own mind. Pain, kvetch, potato nose, dope, keep acting this way And as sure as there's sand in spinach I'll keep kicking your ass. Do you think the human race is going to migrate to the bottom of the sea? Are you waiting for edible fish to start nesting on your windowsill? Why not fill your gas tank with ice and wash your laundry in the oven? Why not plan to take your next dream vacation in Newark? But if you moved to Newark, built a fish nest in your ovn, And spent all your time under water, I still wouldn't trust you . _Male Chauvinist_ XXX. Dear, if you change, I'll never think of earth And its animals dwelling in ignorance of heaven, Warm and wise without the comforts of fire, Nested in the ground, or in water, or air, Certain of their ways by the day and night stars, With no use for knowledge, or need for faith: To see them, it is my eyes that need your faith. Dawn as usual wings the shadows from the earth But my day stays crowded with tiny stars Like spangled dust rising from collapsed heaven, My panic stirs them up so that they blacken the air As if my sight and mind were charred by their fire. Inside me burns that second unnatural fire. Between the two, what existence can I claim, what faith That I am more than a machine to breathe air, To preserve a suffering form of inanimate earth? Others felt this way: they invented heaven. I look up at distant, dominant stars: My desire is firm, it has come down from the stars Scattered around the sky in a single multiple fire, Exemplary, not of some impossible heaven, But of our everyday, there-for-the-asking faith, One being and one love dispersed over the earth In repetitions as sure as theirs in the air. Without you, my thinking spins in thin air, Evening never warms its gradual stars, Choosing another is choosing a bed of earth, All love is decreed hallucinatory fire. But air and evening fill up with love from your faith, Which I could no more break than I could fly to heaven, Except that once I did: it was under a heaven Of night and eyes, our breaths made one air, Our eyes were struck open in pleasures of faith, There was nothing to be seen but stars, Only one night, and never to see dawn's fire Was all I wanted as we grappled on grass and earth. You make earth earth: who needs heaven? You give a heat to fire, you give a brightness to air Of that night's stars, of that broadcast faith. from Harry Mathews, _Armenian Papers: Poems 1954-1984_, Princeton University Press, 1987. David Kellogg Director, Writing in the Disciplines Center for Teaching, Learning, and Writing Duke University (919) 668-1615; FAX (919) 681-0637 http://www.duke.edu/~kellogg From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Robert Hass: Praise; Human Wishes; Twentieth Century Pleasures Weldon Kees: The Collected Poems Denis Johnson: The Throne of the Third Heaven of the Nation's Millennium General Assembly; Jesus' Son Alan Dugan: The Collected Poems Charles Simic: Night Picnic Jeffrey McDaniel: The Forgiveness Parade WS Merwin: Asian Figures Stanley Kunitz: The Collected Poems; A Kind of Order, A Kind of Folly (essays) Roger Fanning: The Island Itself Stephen Dobyns: Best Words, Best Order (essays) Tony Hoagland: Donkey Gospel Alan Shapiro: The Dead Alive and Busy Franz Wright: The Beforelife Philip Larkin: The Collected Poems; Required Writing Thomas Lux: The Street of Clocks James Wright: The Collected Poems Dennis Nurkse: Voices Over Water; Leaving Xaia George Oppen: The Collected Poems Mary Cornish: Offshore, The Boat (chapbook) Alexandra Burack Sarah Lawrence College ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:49 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Best of > It's time for my annual request for favorite books you've read recently. > The poetry biz being what it is, I don't always discover good new > collections the same year they're published, so. . . . > > What are the best recent books you've read in 2001 (not necessarily > published this year)? > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: that published early work by writers including Ian McEwan, Martin Amis, Jim Crace and Britain's current poet laureate, Andrew Motion. After the magazine folded, Hamilton was the host on a television books program and wrote biographies, including the highly praised ``Robert Lowell: A Biography'' and ``In Search of J.D. Salinger,'' which recounted his frustrating attempts to write a book about the reclusive author of ``The Catcher in the Rye.'' Hamilton was not granted an interview with Salinger, but quoted from some of his unpublished letters. Salinger sued, and in 1987 the Supreme Court refused to allow publication of the book, ``J.D. Salinger: A Writer's Life,'' on grounds that it infringed upon Salinger's copyright by using his letters without his permission. Salinger had copyrighted the letters when he learned what the book was to include. The Salinger experience inspired ``Keepers of the Flame,'' a book about overzealous literary executors. Hamilton, a devoted soccer fan, also wrote two books about bad-boy English star Paul Gascoigne, ``Gazza Agonistes'' and ``Gazza Italia.'' He edited many anthologies, from ``The Oxford Companion to 20th Century Poetry'' to ``The Faber Book of Soccer.'' Hamilton is survived by his partner, Patricia Wheatley, and their two children, and by three children from two previous marriages. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Negotiating the Darkness, Fortified by Poets' Strength January 14, 2002 By MARY KARR The events of Sept. 11 nailed home many of my basic convictions, including the notion that lyric poetry dispenses more relief - if not actual salvation - during catastrophic times than perhaps any art form. After the disaster, we did what perhaps most families did. We prayed in gratitude and fury and desperate petition. We watched hours of news. And we read poetry. I probably faxed more copies of poems - and received more faxes from other devoted readers - in the following weeks than I had in years, though as a professor at Syracuse University, I essentially butter my biscuit with the reading of poetry. The diverse crowd of readers I swapped poems with encompassed colleagues, secretaries and administrators; but also The New York Times's conservative columnist William Safire; the poet Sharon Olds; my agent, Amanda Urban; my godson's parents in England; neighbors; the novelists Salman Rushdie and Don DeLillo; and my insurance-selling sister. The first poems I turned to were those of fury. The political satires the Polish poet Zbigniew Herbert lobbed against Soviet oppression dispensed a particularly warming fire. In "The Monster of Mr. Cogito" (translated by John and Bogdana Carpenter), he poses as a chivalrous figure fighting not a dragon but an invisible enemy, "The shimmering of nothingness." Mr. Cogito's monster very much resembles the one behind the World Trade Center attack: it is difficult to describe escapes definition it is like an immense depression spread out over the country it can't be pierced with a pen with an argument or a spear. We only know the monster by "it's suffocating weight/and the death it sends down." The fury I felt at the invisible enemy was embodied in the hilarious, almost Quixote-esque figure of Mr. Cogito walking out at dawn: carefully equipped with a long sharp object he calls to the monster on the empty streets he offends the monster provokes the monster . . . he calls - come out contemptible coward But just as we still stare helpless into our television screens, hoping for some glimpse of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, so this eager knight peers into fog, seeing only "the huge snout of nothingness." European poets like Herbert who endured war have resounded the loudest and longest in these months. Asked to read for The New Yorker's benefit shortly after the attacks, I struggled with whether or not to include the Holocaust survivor Paul Celan's agonized poem about the digging in mass graves (translated from German by Michael Hamburger). It was somber and furious with the God whose universe contained the graves' possibility: There was earth inside them, and they dug. They dug and they dug, so their day went by for them, their night. And they did not praise God, who, so they heard, wanted all this, who, so they heard, knew all this. They dug and heard nothing more; they did not grow wise, invented no song, thought up for themselves no language. They dug. The cadence of the poem drummed out the relentless dirge of a people's grief, but was it perhaps too dark? The digging at ground zero was only blocks away, and perhaps the poem would fall on the audience like another blow. The editor of The New Yorker, David Remnick, ultimately persuaded me to read it. He reminded me that its conclusion suggests not just digging toward the lost, but also a collective digging into history, how one person in despair and loneliness digs toward the salvation of someone else. The poem concludes with a moment of awakening, the sound of a ring striking metal as one human being reaches another. On one, o none, o no one, o you: Where did the way lead when it led nowhere? O you dig, and I dig, and I dig towards you, and on our finger the ring awakes. Poetry is about such instantaneous connection - one person groping from a dark place to meet with another in an instant that strikes fire. After the benefit, strangers wrote in gratitude for the Celan poem, though I regretted not being able to include Whitman's long passage from "I Sing the Body Electric," which describes the body in its various attitudes of beauty and in this section winds up with firefighters, whose recent courage we as a country have been so star-struck by. But the expression of a well-made man appears not only in his face, It is in his limbs and joints also, it is curiously in the joints of his hips and wrists, It is in his walk, the carriage of his neck, the flex of his waist and knees, dress does not hide him. . . . The march of firemen in their own costumes, the play of masculine muscle through clean- setting trousers and waist-straps, The slow return from the fire, the pause when the bell strikes suddenly again, and the listening on the alert, The natural, perfect, varied attitudes, the bent head, the curved neck and the counting. . . . Swim with the swimmers, wrestle with the wrestlers, march in line with the firemen, and pause, listen, count. Memoir has permitted me to relay to readers the yards of intricate information I could never roll into a lyric poem, but prose never works in a reader's mind with poetry's instant infusion of feeling. Poetry is economical. And for the gravely pained, swift relief is of the essence. A poem's brevity touches most readers when the mental focus required by a lengthy prose work just won't do. The poet Philip Larkin once wrote that the reader puts the penny of attention into the poem's slot and immediately gets a feeling as payoff. A short poem is also, arguably, the most portable art form. Maybe pianists can recall whole concertos note by note, or painters can evoke in their minds the most subtle brush strokes. From a great novel a few sentences might linger, a character or scene. But those are abbreviations, not the novel itself. Only lyric poetry yields the artwork in its entirety, anytime, anywhere. And it arrives in common language - the same tool we use to get gas pumped into a dry tank. While standing in a bank teller's long line, I can rerun a whole sonnet in my head and enjoy a rush of tenderness that sometimes disperses my impatience as if a wand had been waved. The act plugs me into the great invisible company of Shakespeare or Dickinson. It's strange that an act so solitary - reciting a silent poem - can invoke that sense of being drawn into the human community. Long works of prose are rabbit holes that let me vanish from this world into alternate realms. But lyric poetry's alchemy yields for me a strange and sudden kinship with the actual world and its citizens. Since the bombings, I've turned perhaps most often to the work of the 90-year-old Polish exile and Nobel laureate Czeslaw Milosz. In "On Prayer," translated here by former poet laureate Robert Hass, Mr. Milosz bestows a way to pray onto even the most faithless. You ask me how to pray to someone who is not. All I know is that prayer constructs a velvet bridge And walking it we are aloft, as on a springboard, Above landscapes the color of ripe gold Transformed by a magic stopping of the sun. That bridge leads to the shore of Reversal Where everything is just the opposite and the word is Unveils a meaning we hardly envisioned. Notice: I say we; there, every one, separately, Feels compassion for those tangled in the flesh And knows that if there is no others shore We will walk that aerial bridge all the same. James Joyce once said that everyone starts out as a poet, then realizes it's too hard. For those of us with the hubris to keep writing verses that will seldom reach the exalted status the great works do (much less buy dinner or cover a mortgage), there's a great joy in the absurdity of one's enterprise. It's the joy derived from true wonder at poetry's redemptive quality, like taking your Little League slugger bat into the cathedral of Yankee Stadium. Here I stand, bat cocked, ready for whatever impossible pitch history flings. It may be a presumptuously comic posture, but the cathedral itself offers me the constant consolations of magnificence. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: host Emily Rems -- You know you're a star, now it's time to alert the world! All women are invited to take the stage after the evening's performances on January 3-6 & 10-11 to strut their stuff with members of the world's greatest women's theater collective. "I was going to die, if not sooner then later, whether or not I had ever spoken myself. My silences had not protected me. Your silence will not protect you." --Audre Lorde _____________________________________ a little bit louder - http://www.geocities.com/loudpoet - NYC's home for the best spoken word. To be removed from this list, send an email to: loudNOTES-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com To modify your subscription and access other list functions, visit the Yahoo!Groups web site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loudNOTES ***** http://www.geocities.com/loudpoet ***** Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ConnecticutPoet-unsubscribe at egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I wonder if she?s dreamin?, in the loneliness of time Of death and birth, Spring and fertility I don?t know what we said and where we walked and how we felt, With the syntax of her madness parsing me Now, generally speaking, I am not the sort to clasp A fairy, nymph or sprite to my embrace But lately each self-portrait that I write or paint or sculpt Has the lonely, empty image of her face --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/23/02 2:14:30 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > > > > > http://euphony.uchicago.edu/index/ > > > > Here's a snippet from their explanatory text: > > > > "In brief, the first category, words which must > be used with caution, are > > words which, when used throughout a poem or as > supplying the thematic > > material, may be warning signs of impending > mediocrity. All too often, a > > young poet will center his poem on, say, singing > and dancing in the > > moonlight, thinking that the very nature of the > topic will lend depth or > art > > to his poem. Sadly, this is not the case. Though > words in this category can > > be used in a successful poem, and indeed are used > with great regularity, > > they are also the cause of the brutal poverty of > a great many others. > > > > The second category, words which should be used > with skill only, are words > > that are likely to ruin a line. Some of these are > simply words which fail > to > > describe - eg "beautiful" instead of "small > gilded fly" - they are the > > result of laziness or poetic nihilism. Some of > these are words which, as in > > the first category, lend the poet to think his > poem enters the sublime > > simply by virtue of containing them, such as > foreign words, overly > > scientific terms; the word "drunk". There is some > overlap between this > > category and the first. > > > > The third category is self-evident. The presence > of these words in a poem > > constitutes legitimate grounds for summary > dissmissal, accompanied by an > > anguished cry of disgust. Especially to these, > there are a few notable > > exceptions, accomplished by the timeless heroes > of poetry, which have been > > duly noted by your diligent archivists here." > > Without taking the proscribed word list too > seriously, I've always > consider it something of a "social duty" for the > poet, whenever possible, > to rescue and to redeem words that have been > dissipated by overuse > or that have been tainted by the jargon of > specialization. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: poetry--focused on miners, however, not office workers. Parenthetically, I'm always bemused by the persistence of the stereotyped opposition between people who have "real" jobs and people in academia. Nor do I quite understand why Ferlinghetti's bookstore management and Jay Laughlin's publishing somehow don't count as real jobs. Next time I'm up at 2 a.m. grading 40 papers, I must remind myself I'm not really working. Semi-sourly, from the paradisal idleness of my academic laptop, Alan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Through Mariposa, up the Dangerous mountain roads, And pulled in at eight a.m. With his big truckload of hay behind the barn. With winch and ropes and hooks We stacked the bales up clean To splintery redwood rafters High in the dark, flecks of alfalfa Whirling through shingle-cracks of light, Itch of haydust in the sweaty shirt and shoes. At lunchtime under Black oak Out in the hot corral, --The old mare nosing lunchpails, Grasshoppers crackling in the weeds-- "I'm sixty-eight" he said, "I first bucked hay when I was seventeen. I thought, that day I started, I sure would hate to do this all my life. And dammit, that's just what I've gone and done." --Gary Snyder Returning the Books to Their Shelves I could have caught a taxi to your city But I couldn't have gotten back in time To put books on shelves at P.S. 19 I wish I lived by a wide stream I should've called a taxi to your city A library should have books in it Pumpkins shouldn't be made into mulch Balloons shouldn't get butter on them Maybe homes shouldn't have these stupid windows And art as we know is next to nothing A library does have books in it So you come here by train with a cold I'd rather run out for love, never phone And slam books back up on their shelves --Bernadette Mayer Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I know I'm getting questions all the time. It's not as academic a position, The college writing program and the core. There is the dean search, which is underway; A lot of applications were dismissed This selection didn't represent -- I don't know anything about the search -- Is uppermost in everybody's mind -- And in the end, of course, it's Artine's choice. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "odysseus34" To: Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stevens > Hal: "The best answer, perhaps, is to wink and say, 'Buy it, and see.'" > > And Jeffrey: "Ha. Well, I always say, yes, it's about you. I tell them > somebody has to record how this company's exemplary leadership so > beautifully balances > its responsibilities to the stockholders, the environment, the board, > the executives, the back-office and the bank." > > Now those are both good ones -- and a lot more polite than the standard > one I have to bite back, "Who the hell would write a novel about an > office and even if I did, do you think someone working in an office > would pay good money in their off hours in order to relax and be taken > away by a no-frigate-like-a-book about....an OFFICE?" > > Moira Russell > Seattle, WA > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The author of ???Les Mis??rables??? turns 200 on February 26th. We celebrate the colourful life of a great poet, novelist and political turncoat VICTOR HUGO was born in 1802, and his bicentenary promises to be the biggest celebration of any writer in years. The French ministries of education and culture have set up enormous Hugo websites, listing enough Hugo-related events, from Madagascar to China, to last another 200 years. The education ministry's homepage shows a cartoon Hugo riding a globe, wielding a lyre and waving like a Gallic Mr Magoo. It urges schoolchildren to dive into the ???man-ocean??? of this universal writer. The culture homepage, meanwhile, shows a stretch of coast and a quotation from Hugo's ???Tas de pierres???: ???Life is an interrupted sentence???. It presents the bicentenary as a celebration of ???the values on which our republic is founded???. This is a risky thing to say about a man who began as a court poet, became the ringleader of the young Romantics, cosied up to three monarchies and managed to be a hero to socialists at the same time. In 1848 Hugo stormed the barricades with government troops. Three years later he was on the other side, trying to stir up resistance against the coup d'??tat of Napoleon III. He fled on the night train to Brussels, disguised as a worker, and spent the next 19 years in exile, first on Jersey, then on Guernsey. Hugo's inflammatory poems were smuggled out of the Channel Islands and inspired revolutionary movements around the world. The exiled poet was an embarrassing blot on the shiny Second Empire. The British government treated him as a diplomatic disaster and tried to send him to America. ???The question now is???, wrote Lord Palmerston in exasperation, ???do these Islands belong to us or to Victor Hugo and Co???? This year, Guernsey belongs once again to Victor Hugo. There will be lectures, exhibitions, themed walks, film and music festivals, a pantomime ???Hunchback of Notre Dame???, and special ???Les Mis??rables??? stamps issued by the Guernsey post office. Hauteville House???a dignified Georgian townhouse which Hugo turned into a DIY Gothic cathedral???is to be reopened. It was there that Hugo wrote the greatest works of English literature in French: ???Les Mis??rables??? and three magnificent novels that used to be international bestsellers: ???Toilers of the Sea???, ???The Laughing Man??? and ???Ninety-Three???. In Paris (which some thought should be re-named Hugopolis), the face that appears on posters and newsstands is the white-bearded sage of the Third Republic???the secular god who used to stare down from classroom walls at pupils who were forced to memorise his poems. But even the old sage in a suit refused to be a passive mascot. The same Victor Hugo went gadding about Paris on the top deck of the omnibus, scribbling poems and picking up pretty women, to the embarrassment of his son-in-law, who sat in the French parliament. If Hugo had been the logo of a single regime, no one would now be celebrating his 200th birthday. It was his spectacular betrayals and courageous posturings, his willingness to be the scapegoat and the buffoon, that made him the national poet. Hugo's oratory suits grand occasions, but he was also the voice of his nation's bad conscience, and that nation still lives with the ghosts of its past: the Dreyfus affair, the Vichy government, the Algerian war and the rise of the National Front. ???There are some crayfish souls???, said Hugo, thinking of Napoleon III, ???forever scuttling backwards into the darkness.??? Birthdays are not conducive to free speech. But a republic that invites its citizens to open the Pandora's box of Hugo's vast oeuvre is a visible improvement on the last Napoleon From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Q: Who are the visitors that speak to you throughout these poems? We get various images of them, for example, when they say "we wear no form or figure of our own ... to tell us from the motions of the air... we'd love to live even in a bubble"-and in another place, they come to you in their "inevitable rows of seven." Do you see them as departed souls, or not that ghostlike? A: They're visitors; I hear words and pick up a pen; they inhabit my hand when I write. They inhabit my hand when they're speaking; at other times, I inhabit my hand. The difference is distinct. I don't know what they are; they're disembodied; they may be spirits, if anyone can know what a spirit is. Q: Are the voices, in a way, a metaphor for your poetic process? A: Auden has an ironic line: "All the literati keep an imaginary friend." The visitors may be my notion: a projection of my wish to hear them. But I've often been astonished by what they've said to me, and can't imagine saying what they've said. Their memory is stronger than mine, and their associative powers are stranger and more vivid. After a while, the debate emerged in one of my poems: "Three Green Stars." The final line is, "Matter or not, it's all material." Meaning that it doesn't matter what the source is: anything is material for art. It doesn't matter whether it's my notion or a notion accepted from some undefinable elsewhere. Read more of the Q&A with Sarah Arvio: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/arvio/qna.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: In the still hour when lions slake their thirst. Everything slept from Ur to Jerimadeth; Stars studded the dark velvet of the air; The crescent moon swung low; Ruth said her prayer, Begging the heavens in her gentlest breath, Hardly moving, with barely opened eyes, To say what god, what summer harvester, Had come that night to make his peace with her, Leaving his golden scythe there in the skies. --part1_193.2fd7dee.29af1f2b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boaz Asleep

Boaz lay down in weariness and pain;
He'd spent long hours laboring on his land
And smoothed his blanket with a dusty hand
To sleep among his heaps of garnered grain.

More fields of wheat stood ready to be mowed;
Though wealthy, he was not an unjust man.
Down his mill-race unclouded waters ran,
And in his forge no master's iron glowed.

His beard was silver like a brook in spring.
His sheaves were thick but bundled without greed,
And when, at harvest, gleaners came in need,
He said, "Leave some ears for their gathering."

On righteous paths his feet were known to dwell,
And goodness cloaked him like a robe of white;
His grain poured forth for all whose hungry plight
Touched him, like water from a public well.

Honest with workers, loyal to his kin,
He honored thrift no less than charity;
The women watched old Boaz wistfully
And saw more in him that in younger men.

An old man sees his Source with clearer sight;
Soon exiting this world of changing days,
He holds eternity within his gaze.
A young man's eyes flash fire; an old man's, light.

*     *     *

So Boaz slept beneath the moon's faint glow.
Among the great stones massed outside his mill,
His reapers lay together, dark and still,
In that calm evening age on age ago.

Judges still ruled the tribes of Abram's blood.
The Hebrews, wandering in their land of birth,
Saw footprints left by giants in the earth
Soft and damp from the still-remembered flood.

*     *     *
Like Jacob, or like Judith, Boaz too
Lay fast asleep upon his humble bed;
The gates of heaven, far above his head,
Half opened as a dream came passing through.

And from his loins a great oak, flourishing,
Stirred Boaz in that dream, and, gazing down,
He saw a race ascending it; a king
Sang at the roots; a god died in its crown.

And Boaz murmured with a mournful sigh,
"How can it pass that I should bear this tree
When eighty years and more have fled from me?
I have no son, nor wife to get one by.

"Lord, the woman with whom I shared this bed
Has gone forever, sharing it with Thee;
Yet still we two remain together, she
Half-living in my thoughts, and I half-dead.

"Shall I conceive a nation sprung from me,
A tree arising from this ancient dust?
Only when I was younger could I trust
That day could wring from night such victory;

For now I tremble like a winter bough;
Alone and widowed, I am dry and old,
And as night falls I bend against the cold
As to the trough the plow-ox dips his brow."

So Boaz raged. The cedar does not feel
The rose that clings to it; his dream was sweet
Yet painful to him, yet it was so real
He did not sense the woman at his feet.

*     *     *

For while he slept there, Ruth, the Moabite,
Laid herself at his feet with naked breast,
Hoping he would not wholly waken, lest
He find her there ashamed in the pale light.

But Boaz never knew that she was there,
Nor did Ruth know what God required of her.
The breath of night caused asphodels to stir,
And all Galgala teemed with perfumed air.

The night grew nuptial, august and sublime.
An angel watched them, quietly hovering
Above their bed with barely beating wing;
Blue shadows crossed their eyes from time to time.

The breath of Boaz softened like the tones
Sung by the water when it flows across
A gentle bed of pebbles thick with moss
While lilies bloom among the hillside stones.

So Boaz slept, and Ruth awakened first
To drowsy sheep-bells tinkling far way;
From the dim heavens shone a gentle light
In the still hour when lions slake their thirst.

Everything slept from Ur to Jerimadeth;
Stars studded the dark velvet of the air;
The crescent moon swung low; Ruth said her prayer,
Begging the heavens in her gentlest breath,

Hardly moving, with barely opened eyes,
To say what god, what summer harvester,
Had come that night to make his peace with her,
Leaving his golden scythe there in the skies.



























--part1_193.2fd7dee.29af1f2b_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "As I have argued before, there are structural similarities between formal poetry, organic natural forms such as leaves and trees, and the computer-generated shapes of fractal geometry. Unlike simple equations and Euclidean geometry, which produce and measure predictable and static results, these self-organizing forms are nonlinear and dynamic, changing over time. Given rise to by an unforeseeable combination of rules, feedback, and chance, they occupy a boundary region between pure randomness and deterministic order. Scientists now call such systems "chaotic" or "complex." Like other nonlinear, dynamic systems, a formal poem is rule-governed, holistic, sensitive to initial conditions, recursive, and self-similar at different scales. It uses feedback to organize itself in a top-down, bottom-up fashion as the poet tinkers, letting rhythms form as imagination interacts with verbal patterns sounding in the ear. Small-scale elements like phonemes help determine larger aspects of the poem such as words, lines, and so on. These scaled similarities are arranged in a hierarchy of levels that reflect and influence one another, from the level of phoneme, word, metrical foot, metaphor, symbol, syntax, stanza, up to logic, theme, overall form, and the ethics and metaphysics implied by the poem's meaning. Offsetting the self-similarity of alliterative patterns and metrical feet are the "broken symmetries" of metrical substitutions and, in some poems, the varying consonants of assonance and rhyme. The poem's final shape is drawn into being partly by a "strange attractor," which tradition calls sonnet, blank-verse monologue, rhyming quatrain." So, if I'd read the essay before I posted the simple "Fractal poetry?," I would have answered my own question. Intuitively, I think you have a valid point, though I would never, for the sake of my own sanity, sit down and consciously "analyze" any contemporary poetry (least of all my own) from that perspective. I do, however, recognize it as "true." - vaguely, Jim ===== James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: Readings: __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: unable to tell whether or not Roger reached the peak prior to his untimely expiration. The pants point neither upward to the summit nor downward to the base camp at twelve thousand feet. Rather, they point to the flank. And so we are no closer than ever before to understanding this calamity. The pants do not reveal all that they promised. Dennis Barone From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > For a sobering long view of poetic fame, take a look at Ian Hamilton's book > *Against Oblivion*, excerpted in *The Guardian*. Available currently at > Poetry Daily, or directly at: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,668028,00.html > > It's always salutary to be reminded that the taste of every age is more or > less completely discarded by succeeding ages. Hamilton, asked to collect > the 50 "best" 20th Century poets in English for a new "Lives of the Poets," > took a look at previous attempts at such gatherings. > > Hamilton writes, "Continuing my scrutiny of Johnson, I was further > nonplussed to find that, out of his selected 50 poets, I was familiar with > the work of maybe half a dozen. That is to say, there were about 40 poets > who had enjoyed fame in two past centuries about whom I knew next to > nothing." > > Moving from the 18th Century to the early 20th, though, Hamilton found that > the track record of anthologists--in terms of defining who's "immortal" and > who will drop into oblivion-- does not change much. > > So let's hear it for those immortal poets, Thomas Yalden, Thomas Tickell, > Edmund Smith, Elijah Fenton; or, closer to our own era, Frederic Manning, > Edward Shanks, John Freeman, Gerald Gould, Fredegond Shove, Anna Wickham, > Helen Parry Eden. . . . > > > =================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at vbe.com > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > =================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Americans, will be able to see the huge collection in a virtual, three-dimensional tour of the museum's galleries. ''This way the entire Louvre collection will be accessible to everyone,'' Internet Director Catherine Jaques told Reuters after a presentation of the site, adding the plan was to make the Louvre ''the world's biggest virtual museum.'' The 165,000 works will be online by 2003, before the museum launches the second phase of the revamp, aimed at enabling websurfers to create their own personalized Louvre Internet service, Jaques said. ''It will be a case of 'My Louvre' -- so if somebody is a big Mona Lisa fan they will receive information about the Mona Lisa,'' she said. And those who make it to France's most visited cultural site will eventually be able to immortalize their visit by downloading information from portable audioguides onto handheld computers or third generation mobile telephones. Museum chiefs hope the new site will push hits up to between 10 and 15 million per year by 2010. Reut10:43 03-22-02 --part1_5a.892cbf7.29cd4e3f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mona Lisa Goes Online in Louvre Web Site Revamp

By Rebecca Harrison
Reuters

PARIS (March 22) - Paris's Louvre is revamping its Web site so art lovers can view its entire collection, including thousands of drawings unseen by museum visitors, without ever setting foot in France.

The Louvre Web site already displays some of the museum's exhibits and gets six million visits a year, as many as flock to the French capital to see Leonardo da Vinci's ''Mona Lisa'' and other famous works up close.

All 35,000 of its exhibits will be on show at the revamped site announced on Friday. Directors hope the upgrade will give more people across the globe access to the world's biggest museum.

Online visitors will also be able to see a further 130,000 drawings, which are too fragile for public display and can only be seen by appointment.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
''This way the entire Louvre collection will be accessible to everyone,'' Internet Director Catherine Jaques told Reuters after a presentation of the site, adding the plan was to make the Louvre ''the world's biggest virtual museum.''

The 165,000 works will be online by 2003, before the museum launches the second phase of the revamp, aimed at enabling websurfers to create their own personalized Louvre Internet service, Jaques said.

''It will be a case of 'My Louvre' -- so if somebody is a big Mona Lisa fan they will receive information about the Mona Lisa,'' she said.

And those who make it to France's most visited cultural site will eventually be able to immortalize their visit by downloading information from portable audioguides onto handheld computers or third generation mobile telephones.

Museum chiefs hope the new site will push hits up to between 10 and 15 million per year by 2010.

Reut10:43 03-22-02 --part1_5a.892cbf7.29cd4e3f_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Somewhere a claim (perhaps by my high-school teachers), That iambic pentameter has become so ingrained in English And American writing (whether by our educational systems, An inclination of the language itself, or other Mysterious causes) that many or most extended Passages of prose in English (particularly prose Superior in quality) are actually constructed in only Moderately distorted iambic pentameter. Can any Experts tell me whether there's any smidgin Of truth in this? I once experimentally tried Breaking up a particularly vivid section In Lowry's *Under the Volcano* into iambic Pentameter and found I could do this with not much difficulty For several paragraphs or pages. Would such A habit of prose style make it even more difficult To separate poems by amateurs from prose? Yes. mbales at oh.verio.net From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: mag in CT back in the late 1980's, a Guest Editorship for a small lit mag in London, and a more recent tenure as Founder and Managing Editor of a graduate-school based lit mag, I've learned some interesting things, which follow below. Because I really do love being an Editor, don't mind the administrative work, and am much older now than I used to be, I take these revelations with a great deal of relaxed humour, (except when I have to deal with my printers and Editorial Boards, who operate in panic mode all the time, regardless of whether there is a crisis at hand). * Those who submit to lit mags often omit the step of actually reading the written submission guidelines. More often than not submissions come in without the required cover letter or SASE. I've received hand-written cover letters that were illegible, and hand-written pieces of work that were illegible. When asked for blind submissions, people have put their names on. When asked for marked submissions, people have left them blind. When asked for prose no longer than 7,000 words, people have sent in 30-100 pages. When asked for 3-5 poems, people have sent 1, 2 25, or everything they've ever written, going back to nursery school, which is where a startling number of writers appear to have first learned to read and write, according to their cover letters. In my day, (prior to the invention of the form of communication I'm using right now), we were lucky if we could spell our doggie's name by first grade. (Hmmm, maybe that explains all of the rejection slips I get back from my own submissions.) * Submissions have appeared through the mail slot: in crumpled envelopes stained with coffee, mud, various permutations of breakfast, and grass (the kind under one's feet, that is); with postage due; with hand-written messages on the envelope apologising for sending things in after the reading period deadline; with no name and address indication anywhere; with letters outlining writers' fees for me to read their poems, which they'll send later if I'll just sign the contract and return it with my payment; with resumes and C.V.s and usually a hand-written note asking me what the salary will be and if I provide medical benefits; and once in a while, with sections literally lifted verbatim from folks like Eliot, Frost, Kinnell, Olds, and whatever *New Yorker* essay is currently making the rounds on the Internet. * Grad students have emailed in to castigate me for having a reading period deadline in the first place, which is impossible to meet for one of the following reasons: 1) if they had to pay attention to reading period deadlines, they'd never get any writing done; 2) the deadline for the publication I edit conflicts with that of *Poetry* and *The New Yorker* and they have to send all their best stuff to those places first; or 3) they're only grad students and it's not fair to put limits on publication like the real world does. * Those born after, say, 1967 cannot be expected to have learned grammar, syntax, or spelling in school. My current favourite example is a fiction writer, who when contacted about numerous problems in his piece, didn't know the difference between the word "evince" and the word "convince," the former which he had used throughout the work to mean the latter. As to the who/whom distinction, suffice it to say that of 100 prose submissions, 95 will be incorrect. Oh, and apparently, the subjunctive tense does not exist in English. On many occasions I've had writers write in or email a day or two after they've said they've sent in something, to ask why I haven't got back to them yet about their work. In general, I have always held myself to a four-week deadline in responding to people's submissions. In months where I receive over 100 pieces, this is sometimes difficult, especially those months when I'm actually not unemployed. But it appears in general that 4 weeks is a fairly prompt response time, though other Editors may be better at sending out notification sooner. I've also been asked why I can't travel to wherever a writer lives to go over his or her entire ouevre in order to decide which poems, stories, or essays I will accept for publication--with payment, of course. If I recall correctly, the Founding Editor of the London lit mag for which I was a Guest Editor did receive submissions from Lyn Lifshin, but I think it must have been in the early 90s when this particular lit mag was very well-circulated in the UK. It had to cease publication when it lost its funding from Great Britain's Arts Council programme. There's a lot of writing and publishing going on these days. I don't believe that sheer volume of publication necessarily equals development in one's chosen genre. I think Editors are in the remarkable and enviable position of being able to shape what will stand as the public embodiment of the writing art after individual writers are gone. The act of bringing aesthetic concerns to bear on the arc of writing in my particular time has been a great joy, perhaps even because of the human foibles of most writers. It has restored a great deal of my faith in human creativity to have had the pleasure to become acquainted with some very talented writers, whom perhaps I would not have encountered otherwise. Cheers, Alexandra Burack ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin > My career as an online poetry editor was brief & undistinguished, and I > never received any submissions from Lyn Lifshin. But practically every > editor of a print magazine I have ever met has a Lifshin story. She's > famous for her relentlessness and her volume, and she's so far outside the > norm in both respects that she's hardly someone to build any sort of "case" > around. > > During my time editing poetry for *Blue Moon Review*, though, I did > encounter more than a couple poets who--until forcefully discouraged-- would > send several submissions *per day*. Politeness soon wears thin in such > cases. > > Perhaps the editors among us would regale us with a few tales from the front > lines. Every editor I know has a few choice ones. > > David Graham > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > >From: JforJames at aol.com > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin > >Date: Sat, Mar 30, 2002, 10:55 AM > > > > >Marcus, obviously editors discriminate. However, they have, or at > >least I had, the expectation that no poet would be sending every > >last piece of material that he/she had typed up. I expected... > >or rather hoped, as editor of an almost insignificant litmag I couldn't > >expect only top-drawer work...that the poet would send a "select subset" > >of his/her available unpublished output. Editors are people with > >prejudices, & I had mine: I didn't like to get 3 or 4 overstuffed > >envelopes of manhandled typescript, that appeared to be little more > >than mass-produced lyric flights of fancy, in each PO Box collection. > >For me, less would have been more; and meant more attention. > >Finnegan > >PS: Of course the throw-all against-the-wall-&-see-if-any-of-it-sticks > >submission strategy worked to some extent; Lifshin's got to be the most > >published small litmag poet in history. (Before you say anything, Marcus, > >I have no evidence for this bald assertion. The Guiness Book of World > >Records makes no reference to her literary feat, that I know of.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And, though I cannot see it plain, Within those stellar spaces roll The countless sparks and whorls of soul: My constellation of the brain. These bones are calm and beautiful; The flesh, like water, strains and clears To show the face my future wears Drowned at the bottom of its pool. Then I am full of rage and bliss, For in our naked bed I feel, Mate of your panting mouth as well, The deathshead lean toward your kiss; And I am mad to have you here, Now, Now, the instant shield of lust, Deep in your flesh my flesh to thrust Against a more tremendous fear. For in a last analysis The mind has finer rays that show The woof of atoms, and below The mathematical abyss; The solid bone dissolving just As this dim pulp about the bone; And whirling in its void alone Yearns a fine interstitial dust. The ray that melts away my skin Pales at the sub-atomic wave: This shows my image in the grave, But that the emptiness within By which I know our contacts are Delusive as a point of light That froths against my shores of sight Sent out from the remotest star, So spent, that great sun's fiery head Is scarcely visible; a ray So ancient that it brings today Word from a world already dead. -- A. D. Hope More Hope available at http://unix.cc.wmich.edu/~cooneys/poems/Hope.5poems.html Moira Russell Seattle, WA From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: A D Hope Now Muse assist me, aptly to describe Mechanic contests of the Critic tribe; Choose but condign exemplars for my song, Lest, like themselves, I explicate too long; Let me shed light on things both dark and dense Yet never move them into common sense. First of the few for whom the Muse finds space, See Wilson Knight adance and take his place. A Double Boiler fixed on fiery wheels, Hisses hysteric or ecstatic squeals; He takes a play, The Tempest, from his poke, Kisses the boards and drops it in the smoke. The smoke redoubles and the cauldron roars; At length he turns a cock and out there pours The play - Ah, no! it cannot be the play To myth and symbolism boiled away; Where the plot, the actors and the stage? These are irrelevant, explains the sage; Damn action and discourse: the play?s no more Than drifts of an extended metaphor. Did simple Shakespeare think: ?The play?s the thing?? What Shakespeare thought is hustled from the ring. He?s shouted down: ?Fallacious by intent?; Critics repudiate what the author meant. Is Lear the story of a King? Ah, no, A tract on clothing and what lurks below. Well, but the audience came to see men act And not to hear a philosophic tract? Wrong once again, my friend: we won?t admit The many-headed monster of the pit, Who think The Tempest tells a tale perhaps And not a long-drawn metaphor, poor chaps; In three short hours how could they hope to judge What takes a critic twenty years of drudge? But who would write a play with this in view? That only proves that Shakespeare scorned them, too. A sovereign critic is a mighty god; Author and audience vanish at his nod; He takes the poet?s place, re-weaves the spell, And is its only audience as well. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: last things." The instrument of extinction. Consciousness has been but the waiting pavement. Artificial life is a flashback to the fall And Literature has snapped together literal. "Dead things could behave as if they were alive!" "Everyone could see that the flocking was real. Here were artificial birds really flocking." Not aware that "Life is a verb." "...Adam gave names...to the fowl of the air." "But then biologists will merely redefine life." "Assembling it from pieces" Or one piece, if "flocking" Is to be a bird. Yet who heard this mocking That is to be The mocking bird? p.181 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: In the spring light, and growing like a silver stair. Nothing else will satisfy me, not even death! Not even broken life insurance policies, cancer, loss of health, Ruined furniture, prostate disease, headaches, melancholia, No, not even a ravaging wolf eating up my flesh! I want spring, I want to turn like a mobile In a new fresh air! I don't want to hibernate Between walls, between halls! I want to bear My share of the anguish of being succinctly here! Not even moths in the spell of the flame Can want it to be warmer so much as I do! Not even the pilot slipping into the great green sea In flames can want less to be turned into an icicle! Though admiring the icicle's cunning, how shall I be satisfied With artificial daisies and roses, and wax pears? O breeze, my lovely, come in, that I mayn't be stultified! Dear coolness of heaven, come swiftly and sit in my chairs! --Kenneth Koch, *Thank You and Other Poems*, 1962 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Copyright (c) 2001 by George Bradley +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More George Bradley: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/bradley/poem.html Read an interview with George Bradley: "AAK: You've been a construction worker, a sommelier, and an ad copywriter. How did you end up as a poet? GB: I like to think I have done these things, not been them. It's the norm rather than the exception for poets to dabble in many professions, because being a poet is just like any other job, except that you don't get paid for it. The way to become a poet is by persistence unto folly..." http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/bradley/qna.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From the sweet glues of the trotters Come the sweet kinks of the first, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From my five arms and all my hands, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth They feed they Lion and he comes. from THEY FEED THEY LION and THE NAMES OF THE LOST released 1999 Copyright (c) 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971,1972, 1976 by Philip Levine +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Philip Levine: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/levine/poem.html Read an essay by Philip Levine From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "In the spring of 1952 in Detroit, I was working at Chevrolet Gear and Axle, the 'abandoned factory' of a poem in my first book, ON THE EDGE, and I hated the job more than any I'd had before or have had since, not only because it was so hard, the work so heavy and monotonous that after an hour or two I was sure each night that I would never last the shift, but also because it was dangerous. There in the forge room, where I worked until I was somehow promoted to a less demanding, equally boring job, the stock we handled so gingerly with tongs was still red-hot as we pulled it from the gigantic presses and hung it above us on conveyors that carried our handiwork out of sight. Others had mastered the art of handling the tongs loosely, the way a good tennis player handles his racquet as he approaches the net for a drop volley, applying just enough pressure not to let go and not enough to choke it. Out of fear I squeezed for all I was worth, and all the good advice, the coaching I received from my fellow workers, was of no use." Continue reading: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/levine/poetsonpoetry.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: A man came into the ER and yelled, "My wife's going to have her baby in the cab!" I grabbed my stuff, rushed out to the cab, lifted the lady's dress, and began to take off her underwear. Suddenly I realized I was in the wrong cab. At the beginning of my shift I placed a stethoscope on an elderly and slightly deaf female patient's anterior chest wall. "Big breaths," I instructed. "Yes, they used to be," replied the patient, sadly. I told a wife that her husband had died of a massive myocardial infarct. Five minutes later, I heard her reporting To the rest of the family that he had died of a "massive internal fart." While acquainting myself with a new, Elderly, patient, I asked, "How long have you been bedridden?" After a look of complete confusion she answered ... "Why, not for about twenty years -- when my husband was alive." I was caring for a woman from Kentucky and asked, "So, how's your breakfast this morning?" "It's very good, except for the Kentucky Jelly. I can't seem to get used to the taste," I asked to see the jelly The woman produced a foil packet labeled "KY Jelly." A new, young MD doing his residency in OB was quite embarrassed performing female pelvic exams. To cover his embarrassment he had unconsciously formed a habit of whistling softly. The middle aged lady upon whom he was performing an exam suddenly burst out laughing and further embarrassed him. He looked up from his work and sheepishly said, "I'm sorry. Was I tickling you?" "No doctor, but the song you were whistling was 'I wish I was an Oscar Meyer Wiener'." Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Black gardens of rock crystal Flowering along a bough of smoke White gardens that explode in air Spaces A sole space that unfolds Flower-face And dissolves Space into space All is nowhere Place of impalpable nuptials --Octavio Paz, tr. Charles Tomlinson *Configurations* (New Directions, 1971) Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ALONE I never thought Michiko would come back after she died. But if she did, I knew it would be as a lady in a long white dress. It is strange that she has returned as somebody's dalmation. I meet the man walking her on a leash almost every week. He says good morning and I stoop down to calm her. He said once that she was never like that with other people. Sometimes she is tethered on their lawn when I go by. If nobody is around, I sit on the grass. When she finally quiets, she puts her head in my lap and we watch eath other's eyes as I whisper in her soft ears. She cares nothing about the mystery. She likes it best when I touch her head and tell her small things about my days and our friends. That makes her happy the way it always did. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The freshness of night has been fresh a long time. The freshness of morning, the blowing of day, one says That it puffs as Cornelius Nepos reads, it puffs More than, less than or it puffs like this or that. The green smacks in the eye, the dew in the green Smacks like fresh water in a can, like the sea On a cocoanut--how many men have copied dew For buttons, how many women have covered themselves With dew, dew dresses, stones and chains of dew, heads Of the floweriest flowers dewed with the dewiest dew. One grows to hate these things except on the dump. Now in the time of spring (azaleas, trilliums, Myrtle, viburnums, daffodils, blue phlox), Between that disgust and this, between the things That are on the dump (azaleas and so on) And those that will be (azaleas and so on), One feels the purifying change. One rejects The trash. That's the moment when the moon creeps up To the bubbling of bassoons. That's the time One looks at the elephant-colorings of tires. Everything is shed; and the moon comes up as the moon (All its images are in the dump) and you see As a man (not like an image of a man), You see the moon rise in the empty sky. One sits and beats an old tin can, lard pail. One beats and beats for that which one believes. That's what one wants to get near. Could it after all Be merely oneself, as superior as the ear To a crow's voice? Did the nightingale torture the ear, Pack the heart and scratch the mind? And does the ear Solace itself in peevish birds? Is it peace, Is it a philosopher's honeymoon, one finds On the dump? Is it to sit among mattresses of the dead, Bottles, pots, shoes, and grass and murmur aptest eve: Is it to hear the blatter of grackles and say *Invisible priest*; is it to eject, to pull The day to pieces and cry *stanza my stone*? Where was it one first heard of the truth? The the. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Yale University, Sarah Lawrence College and Connecticut College. From 1978 to 1989 she taught at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, before coming to UC Berkeley. Among other awards, she received a Rockefeller Grant for Creative Writing and special congressional recognition for her writing and work in the progressive and civil rights movements. C2002 San Francisco Chronicle From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Carves into the land" Bernadin is just one of a staggering number of people -- 4.6 million in all -- who have published verse on Poetry.com, a hugely popular Web site that maintains it is possible to make money from poetry -- if you focus on quantity over quality. "The Internet has been really good for us," said Scott Tilsen, a director of Owings Mills, Maryland-based Poetry.com, which started out in 1987 as an off-line magazine for self-published poetry. It wasn't until it shifted its business online six years ago, that Poetry.com discovered millions of people with a poetic streak. "Before, people would have to type out the poem and put it in an envelope. Now they just put it in an email, hit send, and it is automatically posted," Tilsen said. If most of the work on the Poetry.com site is not memorable enough to attract a large audience on its own, collectively it forms a kind of online community for polished and first-time poets, as well as casual visitors who read snippets of verse the way others may check horoscopes or stock quotes when they have a few minutes of downtime at the office. Poetry.com makes the most of all this traffic, hosting weekend conventions on the craft of poetry and selling a variety of merchandise -- from bound books compiling poems from its site to customized tote bags, calendars, sweatshirts and mouse pads featuring original work. It also attracts visitors with a number of free services like a search engine that provides rhyming words, and an online greeting card service that will paste a poem onto a scenic background for transmission via email. The company maintains it is making a small profit, but has few illusions about its literary merit. In fact, many of the awards it issues, like selecting a daily Haiku winner, are all in fun. Winners are selected randomly based on the time their work is submitted, rather than on the writer's skill. In other words, a different winning time is set every day, and the submission that lands closest to that time wins. "I feel great," contest winner Bernadin wrote to her fellow Poetry.com readers. "I only wish this prize was for creativity, not for entering at the right time. I do enjoy doing the Haikus." "Our work runs the entire gamut from someone writing their very first poem, to some very distinguished writers. But, in general, our members are amateurs and we try to provide them an outlet so they can express their feelings," said Tilsen, who cites studies showing that one in five people have written some poetry. Still, other sites that take the poetry itself more seriously than the profit potential, are also discovering that the Internet is a good venue for erudite efforts. Poems.com ( http://www.poems.com) is directed at poetry connoisseurs, and features only a few poems per day, selected from a prestigious journal or an already published book. It has a few money-making ventures like online advertising, but it mainly depends on contributions from readers and even hosts an annual fund drive modeled after the method used by public radio and television. Although its main motives are not mercenary, Poems.com has also been pleasantly surprised by what it has built online. Co-founder Don Selby, who now serves as editor, said the site generates more than one million page views per month, and expects to break even for the first time this year. Selby has also taken advantage of the quick turnaround of Web publishing to compile special poetry features, like the recent creative exercise of the award-winning poet-critic-editor David Lehman, to turn out one quality poem a day for a month. Although Lehman's poems from that month were eventually compiled into a paper-bound book, "The Daily Mirror," Selby said the original day-by-day publication online helped readers follow an artist's creative process in real time. "The Web has revealed an enormous thirst for poetry," said Selby. "It's a great place to publish." From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: into print than in previous decades. It does this by requiring each poet to partly subsidize, through contest fees, the costs of printing the winning volumes. Is it just a lottery? Yes, in that vagaries of taste and editorial judgment apply, as always. And everyone--even most judges--agrees that many worthy books are passed over. Is it any fairer than the system that gave us Robert Lowell and Randall Jarrell? Or that gave us decades of high-profile Eliot, while William Carlos Williams published his books in editions of 25? I'm not so sure. Certainly I'm not in love with the contest system. As a matter of fact, in recent years I've pretty much stopped participating, myself--with the predictable results. In fact, Jim Finnegan's alternative sounds pretty attractive to me. But you'd still need to work out some system of *selecting* which books got subsidized in that manner, so I'm not sure its results would be utterly different from the current system. -- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== >> "Democratized," in the sense that instead of the lucky few poets being >> patronized by king & court, aspirant poets all pool their money, as it were, >> in contest fees, and the lucky few are published with the help of that pool >> of money. In any given contest, the losers are subsidizing the printing of >> the winners, aren't we? >> -- > > Yes. One take on the contest system is that it is too much like a > lottery. How is a lottery a democratization? Seems like it's just > chance. Are book contests a matter of chance? I don't think so. > > - Jim From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Best at dawn, when even before I am awake the sun Receives me in the questions which you always pose. --Kenneth Koch ======================== I came fairly late to appreciating Koch's poetry. Not sure exactly why. Among his closest peers, O'Hara appealed to me immediately, and continues to do so; Ashbery was like the flu, an intense infatuation that I have mostly recovered from, with occasional relapses. I did hugely enjoy the poem "Fresh Air" and a few others right from the start, but only in recent years have I found myself catching up with his poetry. Hard to believe that Koch was 77 when he died; he sure never sounded like an old man, did he? But like jillions of other teachers, I was deeply inspired by Koch's pedagogical work in teaching poetry differently than I was taught it. I'll bet he'll be remembered as much for that as for his poetry. Certainly I remember him every semester when I assign exercises or readings that are clearly based on his work. -- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And murmurs from the dying sun: "And all the phantom, Nature, stands-- With all the music in her tone, A hollow echo of my own,-- A hollow form with empty hands." And shall I take a thing so blind, Embrace her as my natural good; Or crush her, like a vice of blood, Upon the threshold of the mind? Jeffrey Levine --part1_15c.100225d4.2a5bb9ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/8/2002 11:39:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes:


I think I'll read some Kenneth Koch, actually.  Does anyone happen to have
"Fresh Air" on disk?  I'm away from my books for a few weeks. . . .

David Graham


No, but I found this, apparently one of his early poems. It has a good beat. You can dance to it:

O Sorrow, cruel fellowship,
O Priestess in the vaults of Death,
O sweet and bitter in a breath,
What whispers from thy lying lip?
"The stars," she whispers, "blindly run;
A web is wov'n across the sky;
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And murmurs from the dying sun:
"And all the phantom, Nature, stands--
With all the music in her tone,
A hollow echo of my own,--
A hollow form with empty hands."
And shall I take a thing so blind,
Embrace her as my natural good;
Or crush her, like a vice of blood,
Upon the threshold of the mind?

Jeffrey Levine --part1_15c.100225d4.2a5bb9ed_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And murmurs from the dying sun: "And all the phantom, Nature, stands-- With all the music in her tone, A hollow echo of my own,-- A hollow form with empty hands." And shall I take a thing so blind, Embrace her as my natural good; Or crush her, like a vice of blood, Upon the threshold of the mind? Jeffrey Levine --MS_Mac_OE_3109062166_330638_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Tasty Tennyson Yes, I like early Kenneth Koch quite a lot.  Here's another:

How fares it with the happy dead?
  For here the man is more and more;
  But he forgets the days before
God shut the doorways of his head.

The days have vanish'd, tone and tint,
  And yet perhaps the hoarding sense
  Gives out at times (he knows not whence)
A little flash, a mystic hint;

And in the long harmonious years
 (If Death so taste Lethean springs),
  May some dim touch of earthly things
  Surprise thee ranging with thy peers.

 If such a dreamy touch should fall,
O turn thee round, resolve the doubt;
My guardian angel will speak out
 In that high place, and tell thee all.

--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
David Graham
grahamd at mail.ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com
Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:00:45 EDT
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tasty Tennyson


In a message dated 7/8/2002 11:39:17 PM Eastern = Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes:


I think I'll read some Kenneth Koch, actu= ally.  Does anyone happen to have
"Fresh Air" on disk?  I'm away from my books for a few weeks= . . . .

David Graham


No, but I found this, apparently one of his early poems. It has a good beat= . You can dance to it:

O Sorrow, cruel fellowship,
O Priestess in the vaults of Death,
O sweet and bitter in a breath,
What whispers from thy lying lip?
"The stars," she whispers, "blindly run;
A web is wov'n across the sky;
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And murmurs from the dying sun:
"And all the phantom, Nature, stands--
With all the music in her tone,
A hollow echo of my own,--
A hollow form with empty hands."
And shall I take a thing so blind,
Embrace her as my natural good;
Or crush her, like a vice of blood,
Upon the threshold of the mind?

Jeffrey Levine

--MS_Mac_OE_3109062166_330638_MIME_Part-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: To Old Age You hurried through my twenties as if there were nowhere to look For what you were searching for, perhaps my first trip to China. You said, "I love that country because they love everything that's old And they like things to look old ? take the fortune cookies for example or the dumplings or the universe's shining face." I said, "Chopsticks don't look old," but you were hurrying Past me, past my love, my uncomprehended marriage, my Nine or ten years nailed in the valley of the fools, and still you were not there, Wouldn't stop there. You disappeared for a year That I spent in Paris, came back to me in my father's face And later in my mother's conversation. You seemed great in the palm trees During a storm and lessened by the boats' preceding clops. Looking at a gun or at a tiger I never thought I was standing facing you. You were elsewhere, rippling the sands or else making some boring conversation Among people who scarcely knew each other. You were left by Shelley to languish And by Byron and by Keats. Shakespeare never encountered you. What are you, old age, That some do and some do not come to you? Are you an old guru who won't quit talking to us in time For us to hang up the phone? You scare me half to death And I suppose you will take me there, too. You are a companion of green ivy and stumbling vines. If I could break away from you I would, but there is no light down in that gulch there. Walk with me, then Let's not be falling.this fiery morning. Grand ?ge, nous voici! Old age, here we are! Kenneth Koch New Addresses -- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: sampling of poems. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== ---------- From: "knopfpoetry" Reply-To: knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:44:46 -0700 To: Subject: Kenneth Koch 1925-2002 Poet Kenneth Koch died last Saturday July 6, 2002 at the age of 77. As a tribute to Kenneth and his lifetime of writing, we are today sending to you a sampling from his work. Koch could write in the most traditional of forms, in the most contemporary of experimental voices, or in extraordinary modes entirely of his own creation. His poems feel carefully wrought yet spontaneous and effortless. Like Koch himself, all of his poems are witty and wise, humane and exuberant. In October, Knopf will be publishing two new collections posthumously -- A POSSIBLE WORLD, which contains new poems, and SUN OUT: Selected Poems 1952-1954, which brings back into print the epic poem "When the Sun Tries to Go On." A POSSIBLE WORLD contains a long poem entitled "Memoir," which Kenneth had been working on in the last few months. The following is an excerpt: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ....If you can get in this you can get out of it Type of reaction meanwhile raccoon All sweetness is gone Meaning some sweetness (I have known so far) Is gone You Hotel de Fleurus is gone English grammar is gone As for French "you have to dream in it" Try to make things cease Without even whispering On a pillow that book lay lighting Up the whole bed Janice said stay in bed It is worth watching the clock for Then is all sweetness I wondered if anyone would ever Love things in the same way Some did even many I wasn't the only one A shower head an oyster Catching it is enough While--a bedroom window at their scene I throw the bicycle up In the air then catch it I am so young Volatile evergreen Keep walking sensation in the shoulders Plus throat You travel too much M. Gallimard said to M de G You flatter yourself too much I spoke to myself Her strangeness His confusing ways Her supposed militancy His regret Her natural poses You want everything As one When we left it was the market still there? Koch was not just a prolific poet, but a teacher of poetry, both in his years as a professor at Columbia and in the projects he undertook to open poetry to readers of all ages and backgrounds. The following poem, the title poem from the collection ONE TRAIN, published in 1994, is both a treastise on how to read poetry and a awareness- heightening celebration of the hidden and the unexpected. One Train May Hide Another (sign at a railroad crossing in Kenya) In a poem, one line may hide another line, As at a crossing, one train may hide another train. That is, if you are waiting to cross The tracks, wait to do it for one moment at Least after the first train is gone. And so when you read Wait until you have read the next line-- Then it is safe to go on reading. In a family one sister may conceal another, So, when you are courting, it's best to have them all in view Otherwise in coming to find one you may love another. One father or one brother may hide the man, If you are a woman, whom you have been waiting to love. So always standing in front of something the other As words stand in front of objects, feelings, and ideas. One wish may hide another. And one person's reputation may hide The reputation of another. One dog may conceal another On a lawn, so if you escape the first one you're not necessarily safe; One lilac may hide another and then a lot of lilacs and on the Appia Antica one tomb May hide a number of other tombs. In love, one reproach may hide another, One small complaint may hide a great one. One injustice may hide another--one colonial may hide another, One blaring red uniform another, and another, a whole column. One bath may hide another bath As when, after bathing, one walks out into the rain. One idea may hide another: Life is simple Hide Life is incredibly complex, as in the prose of Gertrude Stein One sentence hides another and is another as well. And in the laboratory One invention may hide another invention, One evening may hide another, one shadow, a nest of shadows. One dark red, or one blue, or one purple--this is a painting By someone after Matisse. One waits at the tracks until they pass, These hidden doubles or, sometimes, likenesses. One identical twin May hide the other. And there may be even more in there! The obstetrician Gazes at the Valley of the Var. We use to live there, my wife and I, but One life hid another life. And now she is gone and I am here. A vivacious mother hides a gawky daughter. The daughter hides Her own vivacious daughter in turn. They are in A railway station and the daughter is holding a bag Bigger than her mother's bag and successfully hides it. In offering to pick up the daughter's bag one finds oneself confronted by the mother's And has to carry that one, too. So one hitchhiker May deliberately hide another and one cup of coffee Another, too, until one is over-excited. One love may hide another love or the same love As when "I love you" suddenly rings false and one discovers The better love lingering behind, as when "I'm full of doubts" Hides "I'm certain about something and it is that" And one dream may hide another as is well known, always, too. In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve may hide the real Adam and Eve. Jerusalem may hide another Jerusalem. When you come to something, stop to let it pass So you can see what else is there. At home, no matter where, Internal tracks pose dangers, too: one memory Certainly hides another, that being what memory is all about, The eternal reverse succession of contemplated entities. Reading A Sentimental Journey look around When you have finished, for Tristam Shandy, to see If it is standing there, it should be, stronger And more profound and theretofore hidden as Santa Maria Maggiore May be hidden by similar churches inside Rome. One sidewalk May hide another, as when you're asleep there, and One song hide another song; a pounding upstairs Hide the beating of drums. One friend may hide another, you sit at the foot of a tree With one and when you get up to leave there is another Whom you'd have preferred to talk to all along. One teacher, One doctor, one ecstasy, one illness, one woman, one man May hide another. Pause to let the first one pass. You think, Now it is safe to cross and you are hit by the next one. It can be important To have waited at least a moment to see what was already there. Koch was a consummate stylist. He could even write in the voice of a naval vessel, as seen in the sequence of poems from ONE TRAIN entitled "Poems by Ships at Sea": He writes: "It was not known that ships at sea wrote poetry. Now it is known. Captain Henry Dreyfus has recorded some of these Pacific and Atlantic songs, most of them composed by large, cargo bearing vessels of the Dutch, British, Portuguese, and French lines. One poem, the last, is by an American ship. " American Foam By the USS United States, United States Navy You can talk about the Banda's crazy waters Where mermaids splash about and kiss and comb You can yak about the Andaman and Flores But there's nothing like American foam. You can say I wish that I were in the Tasman Or that the Laptev froze me to a stone But I will tell you, lads, that there is nothing As soothing and as cooling as the foam That slaps my keel when I am in Penobscot Or Tampa Bay, or when I'm heading home, The West Atlantic and the East Pacific Or Puget Sound, or Norton, close to Nome. There's nothing like the feel of U.S. water It's straight and sharp and clear and it alone Can make a ship feel she is Ocean's daughter Carried upon her parent's shoulder home. (probably) Tasman Sea, 1930's And here, we leave you with a poem from the collection NEW ADDRESSES, a book composed of poems which speak directly to things Koch encountered during his long and remarkable life. To Breath There is that in me--you come Sunday morning to entertain my life With your existence. I am born and my mother warms me She warms me with her self while you circulate through me And fill me with air! My mother is so young To have to deal with an entire existence, mine, apart from hers! She needs you to replenish what's there-- Gala you, who stretch the seams. Without you, the millions of joys of life would be nothing, Only darkness, no pages in the book. In love you're there quickly In the race through the forest, in the dangerous dive from the rock. I have often sensed you at parties The girls come up to the boys and all of the breathe You're awake for them even while they sleep. What I want you to do for me is this: I want to understand certain things and tell them to others. To do it, I have to get them right, so they are hard to resist. Stay with me until I can do this. Afterwards, you can go where you want. KENNETH KOCH Poet, dramatist, lyricist, wit, elegist, parodist, modernist, humanist, teacher, celebrator. 1925-2002 Books by Kenneth Koch POETRY A Possible World (to be published October, 2002) Sun Out: Selected Poems 1952-1954 (to be published October, 2002) New Addresses 2000 Straits 1998 One Train 1994 On the Great Atlantic Rainway: Selected Poems 1950-1988 1994 Seasons on Earth 1987 On the Edge 1986 Selected Poems: 1950-1982 1985 Days and Nights 1982 The Burning Mystery of Anna in 1951 1979 The Duplications 1977 The Art of Love 1975 The Pleasures of Peace 1969 Thank You and Other Poems 1962 Permanently 1961 Ko, or A Season On Earth 1960 FICTION Hotel Lambosa 1993 The Red Robins 1975 THEATER The Gold Standard: A Book of Plays 1996 One Thousand Avant-Garde Plays 1988 The Red Robins 1975 A Change of Hearts 1973 Bertha and Other Plays 1966 NONFICTION Making Your Own Days: The Pleasures of Reading and Writing Poetry 1998 Sleeping on the Wing: An Anthology of Modern Poetry with Essays on Reading and Writing (with Kate Farrell) 1981 I Never Told Anyone: Teaching Poetry Writing in a Nursing Home 1977 Rose, Where Did You Get That Red? Teaching Great Poetry to Children 1973 Wishes, Lies, and Dreams: Teaching Children to Write Poetry 1970 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net --part1_122.148dbfab.2a6eeee8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in fact, it is really boring how much has been written about noir poetry; hard-boiled is pretty much code for "male"

the great b-movie actresses who are still alive (see DARK CITY DAMES) accept American Beauty as a noir

possibly the best monster film poetry is Ed Fields'

Krutnik, Frank. IN A LONELY STREET: FILM NOIR, GENRE, AND MASCULINITY, New York: Routledge, 1991.

Nicholas Christopher, Dangerous Characters, and also a nonfiction book on film noir issued by Basic Books?

Louis Goldstein, THE AMERICAN POET AT THE MOVIES

Frank O'Hara. Jack Spicer, Allan Ginsberg, James Merrill, et.al.  Karl Shapiro.

Rachel Loden has film poems.

more recently, Suzanne Lummis, which is retro noir, not neo noir

neo noir is Walter Mosely (a student of William Matthews'), BLADERUNNER, etc.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Catherine Daly
cadaly at pacbell.net
 --part1_122.148dbfab.2a6eeee8_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: the concluding line: "Her wounds came from the same source as her power." However, most startling is her rendition of "Diving into the Wreck", a landmark poem which not only marked a leap forward in American poetry, but also mapped out a watershed in Rich's own transformation from a poet of distinction into a poet fully aware of her own creative destiny as a lesbian and feminist: I put on the body armor of black rubber the absurd flippers the grave and awkward mask. I am having to do this not like Cousteau with his assiduous team aboard the sun-flooded schooner but here alone. Over a distinguished 50-year career, Adrienne Rich has explored history, gender and ideology with tenacity and courage. As a precocious 21-year-old, she was famously patronised by WH Auden, who would claim that the tidy, metrical poems of her first volume, A Change of World (1951), were "neatly and modestly dressed, speak quietly but do not mumble, respect their elders but are not cowed by them". In the early 1970s, with groundbreaking volumes such as The Will to Change (1971) and Diving into the Wreck (1973), Rich transformed herself into a poet whom Auden would barely have recognised, trumpeting her lesbian feminist ideals and charged with a left-wing conviction that still burns brightly. "Rich's transformation has been astonishing to watch," says critic Ruth Whitman. "In one woman the history of women in the 20th century, from careful traditional obedience to cosmic awareness, defying the mode of our time." Through her essays, articles and lectures, Rich has also contributed to the feminist debate. Of Woman Born (1976), is still one of feminism's most sensitive appraisals of motherhood: "All human life on the planet is born of woman," she writes. "The one unifying, incontrovertible experience shared by all women and men is that months-long period we spent unfolding inside a woman's body. Yet there has been a strange lack of material to help us understand and use it." She was also one of the first to tackle the theme of lesbian existence, in her essay, "Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Experience", which concerned itself with "how and why women's choice of women as passionate comrades, life partners, co-workers, lovers, community, has been crushed, invalidated, forced into hiding". Her latest book, Arts of the Possible , bringing together writings from the last three decades, has just been released in paperback. Some - predominantly male - critics have considered Rich's politics over- bearing: "This book is absolute radical witchery," wrote Alexander Theroux about Of Woman Born , "less a feminist manifesto than the Confessions of St Adrienne. A hodgepodge of 10 aggrieved essays, its stridency makes me wonder why the author is living in New York rather than in one of the famous matriarchies." Harold Bloom attacked Rich for her espousal of minority voices in her 1986 anthology The Best of American Poetry: "What matters most are the race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, and political purpose of the would-be poet." Her supporters counter that she is simply not afraid to tackle the most thorny political and social questions: "Rich is not a compromiser," says novelist Jeanette Winterson. "Since the 1960s, her poetry and her politics have come together to create involved, engaged, challenging writing. She believes in creativity. She is passionate about justice. Harold Bloom has called her 'strident', and much as I love him, he's wrong. Poets should not be cuddly." In person, Rich is bright, engaging and instantly likeable, with a strain of unassailable independence in her voice. She is now aged 73, and her tiny frame has been twisted by the arthritis she has endured since her early 20s; she moves only with great difficulty using a translucent cane. After a number of operations she battles constant discomfort. At times she has suffered other difficult and tragic circumstances, not least the separation from her husband in 1970 and his subsequent suicide. Friends say she has always faced hardships with admirable resilience and strength: "She has huge energy," says the poet Jean Valentine. "She's had to go through an awful lot of stuff and she's kept her head up." Rich is also fiercely principled, and in 1997 turned down President Clinton's offer of the US national medal for the arts "because the very meaning of art, as I understand it, is incompatible with the cynical politics of this administration". At the same time, Rich's formidable mettle does sometimes produce challenging results: "I feel there is something frankly sexist," she called to say, "about probing my sexual life rather than discussing my work and my ideas. I think that it would not be done to a male poet and thinker." The same adherence to feminist principles also led her, shortly after the suicide of her husband, to cut off most of her male acquaintances: "We are as close friends as you are likely to find," says longtime friend Hayden Carruth, who was among those cast out. "But Adrienne is very quick-tempered, very defensive and egomaniacal in many ways, and hard to get along with." The same uncompromising rigour and resolution is evident when she focuses on her ideas: "We have to think internationally if we are going to talk about women," she says, claiming that the feminist revolution has only begun. "We can't just be talking about white women in America or in Britain, and we can't only be talking about exceptions. We haven't come such a long way in the larger sense. Any movement has to recognise its successes, but it also has to retain a kind of vibrant dissatisfaction." She also believes that the poetic and the political should not be segregated. Rich lives with her partner, the Jamaican-born novelist Michelle Cliff, in the Californian town of Santa Cruz, on a stretch of Pacific coastline surrounded by palms and guava trees. Despite the tensions and frustrations she experienced as a young mother she is now extremely close to her three sons: David, who designs computer graphics, Paul, an elementary school music teacher, and Jacob, the youngest, a producer of political radio programmes in Los Angeles. She maintains a vigorous regime of writing, readings and teaching, and, friends say, has become more determined and buoyant as infirmity has encroached: "There have been times when I have been very confined to one place," she says. "I do wonder if I could have done the work I have done if I had been freer to roam the world. But you cannot imagine living a life different from the one you have lived." Adrienne Cecile Rich was born in Baltimore, Maryland, on May 16 1929, the first daughter of Helen (n?e Jones) and Arnold Rice Rich. Her mother, a promising concert pianist who gave up her career for marriage, was determined to instil the impeccable manners of a southern lady into Adrienne and her younger sister Cynthia, both educated at home until the fourth grade: "For years we battled over music lessons," Rich wrote half a century later, in the poem "Solfeggietto", "The mother and the daughter/ Their domed exhaustion their common mystery/ worked out in finger exercises." Arnold Rich, a Jew of Austro-Hungarian stock who became a pathologist at the Johns Hopkins Medical School, had rather different ideas for his daughters, and encouraged them to spend as much time as possible exploring the library, which he stocked with Auden, MacNeice and Yeats. The object of the exercise was to transform Cynthia into a novelist and Adrienne into a poet: "I was supposed to write something every day and show it to him," Adrienne remembers. "At some points I hated that. But it was probably a good thing." This educational experiment, however, was only partially successful as Cynthia, after publishing just a few stories, was lost to marriage. And Arnold Rich's overbearing approach left an indelible mark of resentment on Adrienne: "His involvement was egotistical, tyrannical, and terribly wearing," she later claimed. Entry to Harvard's Radcliffe College in 1947 came as a very welcome escape: "It was a great, expanding world," she recalls. "I thought that Cambridge, Massachusetts, was Athens." For the first time, she could talk about her Jewish background, and mix freely with young Jewish women, returning home "flaming with new insights, new information". However, she soon became disillusioned with the unspoken expectations: "It was an all-female college," she says, "but we were taught always knowing that we were second-class citizens. Basically, the message was that you got this very remarkable and privileged Harvard education in order to become the gifted and intelligent wife to a great man." One thing, however, set Rich apart: her poetic talent. Encouraged by her Radcliffe tutors, she entered some of her verses into the 1951 Yale Younger Poets Competition, which was to be judged that year by Auden. He not only awarded Rich first prize, but also offered to write the preface to her first collection, A Change of World: "The typical danger for poets in our age is, perhaps, the desire to be 'original,'" he wrote. "Miss Rich, who is, I understand, 21 years old, displays a modesty not so common with that age, which disclaims any extraordinary vision, and a love for her medium, a determination to ensure that whatever she writes shall, at least, not be shoddily made." The poems themselves were deeply conventional, but their precocity is clear. After graduation Rich was awarded a Guggenheim fellowship to study in Oxford for a year. Following an Easter vacation in Florence, however, she decided not to return and spent the rest of her European sojourn sampling Italian culture and writing poetry. In 1953, she returned to Massachusetts to marry Alfred Conrad, a Harvard economist she had met as an undergraduate: "I married in part because I knew no better way to disconnect from my first family," she says. "I wanted what I saw as a full woman's life, whatever was possible." In most respects, Rich had fulfilled all Radcliffe expectations, and immediately found married life for a woman in the 1950s unbearably restrictive. Bowing to the pressures of family and society, she bore three sons in quick succession: David in 1955, Paul in 1957 and Jacob in 1959. Almost more unbearable than her feelings of helplessness was the enormous guilt she felt at not being, as the patriarchal mythology dictated, "satisfied or completed" by motherhood: "My children cause me the most exquisite suffering," she wrote in her journal in November 1960. "It is the suffering of ambivalence: the murderous alternation between bitter resentment and raw-edged nerves, and blissful gratification and tenderness. Sometimes I seem to myself, in my feelings toward these tiny guiltless beings, a monster of selfishness and intolerance." Creatively, this period would prove calamitous. In 1955 her second collection, The Diamond Cutters , appeared. She now feels it "is probably a volume that should not have been published". Too much was taken up with perfunctory travel poetry, written during her European tour and amid depressing visions of advancing old age: "A lot of the poems are incredibly derivative," she says. "There is a pressure to produce again after one has published a work. Also, I was married and I had begun a family. There was sort of a pressure to make sure I was still a poet." For almost a decade, however, Rich did not publish another volume, and at one dark stage, stopped writing altogether. She wrote in her journal in 1956: "Of late I've felt towards poetry - both reading it and writing it - nothing but boredom and indifference... I have a strong sense of wanting to deny all responsibility for and interest in that person who writes - or who wrote." An early turning point came in her third pregnancy, after which she resolved to exert more control over her life and body. She decided on sterilisation, a measure widely frowned upon: "When I awoke from the operation, a young nurse looked at my chart and remarked coldly: 'Had yourself spayed, did you?'" It was also around this time that Rich discovered the writing of Mary Wollstonecraft, James Baldwin, and, particularly, Simone De Beauvoir, whose The Second Sex "talked about things that I had been half thinking but feeling no confirmation for". Slowly she began to regain some creative momentum, and by the end of the 50s was working on a new long poem "jotted in fragments during children's naps, brief hours in a library or at three am after rising with a wakeful child". Published in 1963 under the title "Snapshots of a Daughter in Law", its free metre and unashamed personal tone marked a decisive break from Rich's earlier work, examining "what it is to be a thinking woman" within the social restrictions of family and marriage: "Nervy, glowering," she wrote, "your daughter wipes the teaspoons, grows another way." Despite this leap in her personal development, the critical reaction was harsh: "I was seen as 'bitter' and 'personal'; and to be personal was to be disqualified, and that was very shaking because I'd really gone out on a limb... I realised I'd gotten slapped over the wrist, and I didn't attempt that kind of thing again for a long time." However, Rich would soon be overtaken by events in her own life and by the radical social ideas fermenting in the 60s. In 1962, she travelled to Amsterdam with her husband, who had received a Guggenheim fellowship to work at the Netherlands Economic Institute. When they came back to the US, Rich began spending summers with her family in Vermont, where near-neighbours included the poets Galway Kinnell and Hayden Carruth: "I began to feel connected," she says. However, the decisive move came in 1966, when Rich and her husband moved to New York after he was offered a post at City College. Rich began teaching the graduate poetry course at Columbia University and immersed herself in the radical ideas flooding the campus, in particular the anti-Vietnam movement and women's liberation. In 1968, she also took up a teaching post at City College as part of the Seek programme which attempted to reach out to underprivileged students. In her work, radical ideas would begin to surface in the 1969 collection Leaflets , but more decisively in her prose, which had now begun appearing in feminist journals. Initially, Rich's husband supported her growing activism, and joined her in hosting anti-Vietnam and Black Panther fundraising parties at their apartment. However, he quickly became exasperated: "She was becoming a very pronounced, very militant feminist," says Hayden Carruth. "I don't know what went on between them, except that Alf came to me and complained bitterly that Adrienne had lost her mind." By the summer of 1970, they had reached breaking point and with both parties indulging in affairs - at this stage, in Adrienne's case, still of a heterosexual nature - she left, moving into a small apartment nearby. After months of upheaval, Alfred Conrad left in October 1970 for what he told his children would be a brief trip. When he failed to return, Adrienne became concerned: "She called and asked me to get hold of Alf," says Carruth, who still lived close to the Rich family summer house in Vermont. "She said he had taken off, possibly to Vermont. I drove to their place and couldn't find him, so I left a note on the door. The next day the cops called and asked me to come and help identify his body. Immediately after that I called and told her. She wasn't unprepared. Alf was going to a psychiatrist at the time and one reason he came up to Vermont was that he couldn't get hold of his psychiatrist in New York. It was very complicated. I think that temperamental differences had something to do with it. I think Alf was a disappointed person, who, as Adrienne became more celebrated, became more depressed." Alfred had driven into the woods and shot himself. His death devastated Rich: "It was shattering for me and my children," she says. "It was a tremendous waste. He was a man of enormous talents and love of life." The first indication for many that her life had changed in other fundamental ways came shortly after Alfred's suicide. Rich abruptly cut off all contacts with most of her male friends, explaining to Carruth a decade later that after Alf's death so many men in New York came around pestering her and, as Carruth puts it, "she felt repressed and disgusted". For many, the revelation that she was a lesbian came as a shock. Observant readers of Rich's work, however, would have noted that, as early as A Change of World , a poem called "Stepping Backward" had dealt with breaking off a close female relationship. For Rich herself, it was simply the fulfilment of a desire that had lain dormant through the decades of her frustrating marriage: "The suppressed lesbian I had been carrying in me since adolescence began to stretch her limbs," she wrote. In many ways, the re-emergence of her true sexuality was as much a political choice as it was a personal imperative: "There was so much being questioned, so much up for grabs," she says, "I don't think the phrase 'lifestyle' was even being used. There was a women's movement, in which arts were exploding along with politics. It wasn't as simple as falling in love - though falling in love always helps." The impact of this personal, political and sexual revolution in Rich's life was immediately evident in her work, firstly in The Will To Change (1971). One of the most powerful poems in the collection, "Planetarium", celebrates Caroline Herschel, the 18th- and 19th-century astronomer whose life and work was overshadowed by her brother William. Equally impressive is "The Burning of Paper Instead of Children", a complex prose/verse poem which manages to tackle themes of pacifism, patriarchy and the artificiality of a life refracted through books: "I know it hurts to burn. The typewriter is overheated, my mouth is burning. I cannot touch you and this is the oppressor's language." Diving into the Wreck , published in 1973, was even more forceful and assured, qualities that earned Rich the national book award, shared with Allen Ginsberg. Aside from the title poem, the volume also included "The Phenomenology of Anger", in which Rich argued that "anger can be visionary, a kind of cleansing clarity". Viewed as hectoring and hysterical by some male critics, the poem proclaimed: "the only real love I have ever felt/ was for children and other women/ everything else was lust, pity,/ self-hatred, pity, lust." However, it was in Twenty One Love Poems (1976), that all the strands of Rich's personal and political transformation came together: "The rules break like a thermometer,/ quicksilver spills across the charted systems/ we're out in a country that has no language/ ...whatever we do together is pure invention/ the maps they gave us were out of date/ by years..." There is no dedication on Twenty One Love Poems , and all Rich has revealed of her early lesbian relations is that her first "full-fledged act was to fall in love with a Jewish woman". In 1976, however, she fell in love with the novelist Michelle Cliff, then a copy editor working at Rich's publisher WW Norton. Cliff shared many of Rich's preoccupations: race, ethnicity, lesbian identity. In 1981, they took over editorship of the lesbian journal Sinister Wisdom. Then in 1984, the couple uprooted and moved 3,000 miles to California. Rich is unwilling to give any further details of their relationship: "Michelle's a very private person," she says. "We keep our lives very separate, in terms of what our work is about, and deliberately so." Rich's work would never again quite reach the exuberance of the poems of the late 60s and 70s. "A Wild Patience Has Taken Me This Far" (1981), is much more subdued: "There was a sense coming out of the 60s that revolution was not going to be accomplished overnight," she says. However, as her 1999 volume Midnight Salvage , published as she turned 70, demonstrates, she is still at the height of her powers and still diving into the wreck of history. "Diving into the Wreck" itself ends with the lines: We are, I am, you are by cowardice or courage the ones who find our way back to this scene carrying a knife, a camera a book of myths in which our names do not appear. Few poets have done more than Rich to ensure that writing female voices out of history will not prove easy: "We are everywhere and the record is so visible. So, I don't worry about that for women in general. Certainly, the record is always in need of replenishment. But I certainly don't worry about it for myself." Adrienne Cecile Rich Life at a glance Born: May 16 1929,Baltimore, Maryland. Education: Roland Park Country School, Baltimore,1938-47; Radcliffe College, '47-51. Relationships: Married Alfred Conrad, June 26, 1953 (three sons, David '55,Paul '57, Jacob '59); Michelle Cliff '76-. Poetry: A Change of World 1951, The Diamond Cutters and Other Poems '55, Snapshots of a Daughter-in-Law '63, Necessities of Life '66 , Leaflets '69, The Will to Change '71, Diving into the Wreck '73, Selected and New '74, Twenty-One Love Poems '77, The Dream of a Common Language '78, A Wild Patience Has Taken Me This Far '81, Sources '83, The Fact of a Doorframe '84 , Your Native Land, Your Life '86, Time's Power '88, An Atlas of the Difficult World '91, Dark Fields of the Republic '95, Midnight Salvage '99, Fox 2001. Prose: Of Woman Born: Motherhood as Experience and Institution 1976, On Lies, Secrets and Silence: Selected Prose '79, Blood, Bread and Poetry: Selected Prose, '86, What Is Found There: Notebooks on Poetry and Politics '93, Arts of the Possible 2002. ? Arts of the Possible: Essays and Conversations is published by WW Norton, ?9.95. To order with free UK p&p call Guardian book service on 0870 066 7979 Guardian Unlimited ? Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: fall, but I just ran across it and this is one of the good ones. M Top Ten Baseball Euphemisms For Sex David Letterman 10. Working the rosin bag 9. Comebacker 8. Charging the mound 7. Riding the pine 6. Jerking one into the seats 5. Coming from behind 4. Doubleheader 3. Going deep in the hole 2. The big unit 1. Visiting Busch Stadium Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: currently holding an online discussion of Charlotte Mew. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== I'd love you to participate in a Previewport.com On Line Poetry Circle reading and discussing "The Trees Are Down" by British poet Charlotte Mew (1869-1928) proclaimed by Thomas Hardy as "far and away the best living woman poet - who will be read when others are forgotten." Virginia Woolf called her "the greatest living poetess." How is it that you mayknow so little of her work? Well, I speculate about that in my intro. I think this is a gorgeous poem -- fluid, fierce, and emotional with flying long and short lines -- and well worth your energy. You can drop in any time from today, Wednesday, August 7 until Friday, August 9 . This isn't a chat, it's a message board where I will be responding to your comments several times a day. Here are the instructions for participating: You will be able to find the forum on the PreviewPort home page (www.previewport.com) and also by going to http://www.previewport.com/talk/forumhome.asp . At this forumhome page, you will see a small box with a brief description of the forum and my author photo. Click the words "Read more" under this description to get to the forum itself. You will see a box with my introduction to the poem. Under this intro box, you will see a smaller post from PreviewPort that says "Join this discussion..." I hope we can speak a bit about Charlotte Mew when you can this week. Happiest August wishes (oh dear, this is a spring poem, but it's as ferocious as August in its way . . . . ), All the best, Molly MOLLY PEACOCK 's addresses & phones in Canada and the US: 109 Front St. East, Suite 1041, Toronto, ON M5A 4P7, CANADA phone: 416- 866-8779 / fax: 416-866-8780 & 505 East 14 St. #3G, NY, NY 10009 USA phone: 212-677-3535 / fax: 212-253-8305 / cell: 917-544-7899 Web page: http://www.mollypeacock.com Molly Peacock is Poet-in-Residence at Poets' Corner, The Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Amsterdam Ave. & 112 St., NY, NY From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I unfasten the jewelled clasp of the Maphorion And remove the veil from the hair and the neck I relax the creases over her right breast And the creases over the left Gently, to ease the pain. I remove like a spider's web The thin under-garment that leaves the riddle Both solved and unsolved, and she looks at me The eyes brown in the bluish-white of the eyeballs Steadfastly look at me. I remove the arms The brown hand with its rose, and the brown breasts The right breast first, then the left, but gently To ease the pain, then the scalp and the cheeks And the girdle after having kissed it And lastly the big eyes which look at me Steadfastly look at me still After they have been removed I remove the gold ground and the ground coat Until the thick-veined wood is exposed A piece of old olive wood, saved long ago Out of a storm-felled tree On some coast way up in the north. In the wood Almost hidden, an eye, the eye-knot of a twig That must have been broken off when the tree was still young You look at me. Hodig'itria. Philo'usa. --Gunnar Ekelof, tr. W. H. Auden and Leif Sjoberg Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: in several syndicated newspapers: 1. End words must be derived from four or more letters in the title. 2.Words which acquire four letters by the addition of "s" are not used. 3. Only one form of a verb is used." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: "Halvard Johnson" >To: >Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] poem >Date: Wed, Aug 14, 2002, 9:31 AM > >{ You know, when I was a speechwriter for Mac Mathias, on a trip to >{ Tanager Island where they still speak in what sounds like >{ Shakespearean English, the locals crabbed for crabs, as they do for a >{ living, while Mathias crabbed for votes, as he did. I noticed that >{ none of the crab baskets had tops on them but that no matter how many >{ crabs were in a basket no crabs climbed out. Mathias finished his >{ vote solicitations and looked at me a little sadly and said "They >{ don't need tops because whenever an enterprising crab starts to climb >{ out of the basket the others drag it back down." >{ >{ >{ Marcus Bales > >And you see yourself as that enterprising crab, right? > >You know, you're a witty and intelligent guy, Marcus, and I've grown >fond of you over the years. The main difference between us is that >you see the world of poetry as narrow and fixed, and I see it as broad >and without boundary. You see heresies where I see innovations, new >possibilities. I admire your devotion to logical analysis, but I wish you >were more aware of its appropriate venues. And maybe, while you're >at it, you might try a bit more to open yourself up to new perspectives. > >Hal "language--the Riviera of consciousness" > --Bob Perelman > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard at earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: May get them promotion, a pension, Or merely a raise; Another year fatter and older They flirt with old flames now grown colder Then fall for a younger one's bolder, If less truthful, praise. The men snort their picayune grouses And act like low libertine louses Betraying their principles, spouses, And significant others, Drinking to knock back the terror That there's been a terrible error And history may yet prove a fairer Judge than their mothers. I watch the free-versers and rhymers, Idealists and down-in-the-slimers, Sweet hermits and sly social climbers All chasing careers; Their earnestness makes me despair of them -- Each likely recombinant pair of them; You'd think I'd have learned to beware of them, Shielded by sneers. But now they have organized locally, The urban-enraged and the yokelly, Leaving the business side jokily Under-explored; Did I, when asked for my attitude, Give it? Or give them wide latitude? No, I accepted with gratitude A seat on the Board. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: September 6, 2002 The Names By BILLY COLLINS Yesterday, I lay awake in the palm of the night. A fine rain stole in, unhelped by any breeze, And when I saw the silver glaze on the windows, I started with A, with Ackerman, as it happened, Then Baxter and Calabro, Davis and Eberling, names falling into place As droplets fell through the dark. Names printed on the ceiling of the night. Names slipping around a watery bend. Twenty-six willows on the banks of a stream. In the morning, I walked out barefoot Among thousands of flowers Heavy with dew like the eyes of tears, And each had a name ? Fiori inscribed on a yellow petal Then Gonzalez and Han, Ishikawa and Jenkins. Names written in the air And stitched into the cloth of the day. A name under a photograph taped to a mailbox. Monogram on a torn shirt, I see you spelled out on storefront windows And on the bright unfurled awnings of this city. I say the syllables as I turn a corner ? Kelly and Lee, Medina, Nardella, and O'Connor. When I peer into the woods, I see a thick tangle where letters are hidden As in a puzzle concocted for children. Parker and Quigley in the twigs of an ash, Rizzo, Schubert, Torres, and Upton, Secrets in the boughs of an ancient maple. Names written in the pale sky. Names rising in the updraft amid buildings. Names silent in stone Or cried out behind a door. Names blown over the earth and out to sea. In the evening ? weakening light, the last swallows. A boy on a lake lifts his oars. A woman by a window puts a match to a candle, And the names are outlined on the rose clouds ? Vanacore and Wallace, (let X stand, if it can, for the ones unfound) Then Young and Ziminsky, the final jolt of Z. Names etched on the head of a pin. One name spanning a bridge, another undergoing a tunnel. A blue name needled into the skin. Names of citizens, workers, mothers and fathers, The bright-eyed daughter, the quick son. Alphabet of names in green rows in a field. Names in the small tracks of birds. Names lifted from a hat Or balanced on the tip of the tongue. Names wheeled into the dim warehouse of memory. So many names, there is barely room on the walls of the heart. *Billy Collins is poet laureate of the United States. This poem will be read before Congress today at its joint session in New York City.* -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The Unlikely Origin of Metaphor One morning during a particularly cold winter Jesus came out of the house where he had spent the night and, to his surprise, a crowd of people had been standing outside for hours, waiting for him. "We don't understand the parable of the whale, master," said one of the fishermen of the village. "What's a whale?" said another, "And what parable was that? I couldn't come to hear him yesterday." Jesus looked at them, sorry he had not explained the para- ble. He thought that because they lived in a coastal town, they would understand it alright. "Well, it goes like this. The sinner is like the whales that sometimes wash up on the shore. Haven't you ever seen one, still half alive, lifting its tail slightly, more and more weakly as it nears death, occa- sionally letting out this gross and pathetic squeak-belch while nervously turning one decrepit, sandy fin in the air before letting it thud anemically on the dirt? You see, whales are not fish. They are mammals, pretty much like you and me. They breathe air, unlike fish. You may have also noticed that whales don't have scales. Neither do sharks, though, and they are fish. Anyway, whales breathe, so they can live a bit longer on the shore than a fish that flaps around on deck like lost money. In the way they seem to breathe on shore, whales are like sinners who are dead to the spirit but seem to live, indeed to enjoy themselves, in this life. Eventually, their inability to live on solid ground, although they breathe our air too, kills them. They cannot live in the kingdom of heaven because they cannot breathe its air, which is a metaphor here for the spirit. Granted, it is a com- plex metaphor, a tricky bit of trope-turning here, because 'air' is a symbol for spirit--you have all heard the Greeks call it pneuma. So the whale breathes and doesn't breathe, lives and doesn't live, is in its element and is not in its element, looks saved but is damned, is huge and powerful but is help- less in a thin, transparent element--the spirit--in which it cannot exist. I guess you could also say the sinner can only take in small gulps of the spirit while he is in his ocean of sin, but if exposed to a full dose of it he will perish, he will see his guilt and die spiritually. So water is a symbol of evil here, but only here, because my disciples and John's are baptizing people all over the place and in those rituals water is the symbol of purity. So don't get confused." "O," said the bewildered fisherman politely, "We see now." His wife stepped forward to ask, "It this the same whale that swallowed Jonah?" "Yes, the same," said Jesus. "Maybe he choked on Jonah and not on the air." "Yea," said another woman of the village, clutching a dark shawl beneath her chin. "Or maybe the whale just came up on the beach to cough Jonah up." The fisherman's wife turned to the crowd, arched up her eyebrows and cruved her mouth downward to elicit some support for her theory. "Jonah is returning! To the beach, everyone, so we can see him emerge from the whale!" The crowd turned, in a panic almost, and ran down the cold street to the beach chanting and singing. But when they got there and saw that there was no whale, they all stood silently. They saw a dawn which could be mistaken for a sunset. In the distance a Roman ship was sailing westward, although it could just as well be heading for them. And across the surface of the water they beheld five or six flying fish, which could also be angels. --Ricardo Pau-Llosa fr. *Sudden Fiction (Continued)*, eds. Robert Shapard & John Thomas Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And if they blow up the Statue of Liberty-- Then the survivors might likely in grief, terror And excess build a dozen more, or produce A catchy song about it, its meaning as beyond Meaning as those symbols, or Ray Charles singing "America The Beautiful." Alabaster cities, amber waves, Purple majesty. The back-up singers in sequins And high heels for a performance--or in the studio In sneakers and headphones, engineers at soundboards, Musicians, all concentrating, faces as grave With purpose as the harbor Statue herself. --Robert Pinsky Written by the former poet laureate for The Washington Post. Appeared in their Sunday Magazine 9/8/02; Page W26 -------------------------------------------------- I Saw You Walking I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station in your shoes of white ash. At the corner of my nervous glance your dazed passage first forced me away, tracing the crescent berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling all corners with ill will and his stench, but not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a parody of careful dress, preparedness -- so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this morning when your suit jacket (here are the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn by men like you on ordinary days) and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter come from the pit with nothing to carry but your life) were torn from you, as your life was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, leading your body north, though the age of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth and away from me, was unclear, the sandy crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, dusted back, half shirted, walking away; I should have dropped to my knees to thank God you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. --Deborah Garrison. The New Yorker, 22 October 2001. Reprinted in 110 Stories: New York Writes After September 11, edited by Ulrich Baer. New York University Press. 2002. -------------------------------------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: >To: >Subject: [New-Poetry] catching up >Date: Mon, Sep 9, 2002, 10:57 AM > >Dear All: > >I'm just back from a long trip while set to "no-mail'" -- >could someone conveniently and kindly >re-post the Pinsky & Collins 9/11 poems >under discussion? > >on on, > >Barry > > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: - -=20 =B3Will you ever write a poem about what happened on Tuesday?" "No," he says in a response that comes quickly and emphatically. "Why not?" "You can't approach something like this frontally in a poem -- at least I can't. It will knock you over. It is like walking into a big wave. You will fall on your bathing suit." Isn't it his job to set aside his feelings and write a poem offering us solace, inspiration and wisdom? No, says Collins. "I am a person before I am the poet laureate." Rather tha= n toiling away in an office in the basement of the White House composing birthday poems, his role is to be a literary ambassador, travelling the country and raising consciousness about the value of poetry. [though he apparently did not feel it had value for 9/11 back then. . .] - - - >=20 > From: Barry Spacks > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:03:08 -0700 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #966 - 7 msgs >=20 > At 12:01 PM 9/11/02 -0400, David Graham wrote: >=20 > Here's the Collins and Pinsky, plus Deborah Garrison for lagniappe. >=20 >=20 > thanks, David -- would love to hear what your students > say about the three poems. >=20 > Barry >=20 >=20 >> The Names >>=20 >> Yesterday, I lay awake in the palm of the night. >> A fine rain stole in, unhelped by any breeze, >> And when I saw the silver glaze on the windows, >> I started with A, with Ackerman, as it happened, >> Then Baxter and Calabro, >> Davis and Eberling, names falling into place >> As droplets fell through the dark. >>=20 >> Names printed on the ceiling of the night. >> Names slipping around a watery bend. >> Twenty-six willows on the banks of a stream. >>=20 >> In the morning, I walked out barefoot >> Among thousands of flowers >> Heavy with dew like the eyes of tears, >> And each had a name =8B >> Fiori inscribed on a yellow petal >> Then Gonzalez and Han, Ishikawa and Jenkins. >>=20 >> Names written in the air >> And stitched into the cloth of the day. >> A name under a photograph taped to a mailbox. >> Monogram on a torn shirt, >> I see you spelled out on storefront windows >> And on the bright unfurled awnings of this city. >> I say the syllables as I turn a corner =8B >> Kelly and Lee, >> Medina, Nardella, and O'Connor. >>=20 >> When I peer into the woods, >> I see a thick tangle where letters are hidden >> As in a puzzle concocted for children. >> Parker and Quigley in the twigs of an ash, >> Rizzo, Schubert, Torres, and Upton, >> Secrets in the boughs of an ancient maple. >>=20 >> Names written in the pale sky. >> Names rising in the updraft amid buildings. >> Names silent in stone >> Or cried out behind a door. >> Names blown over the earth and out to sea. >>=20 >> In the evening =8B weakening light, the last swallows. >> A boy on a lake lifts his oars. >> A woman by a window puts a match to a candle, >> And the names are outlined on the rose clouds =8B >> Vanacore and Wallace, >> (let X stand, if it can, for the ones unfound) >> Then Young and Ziminsky, the final jolt of Z. >>=20 >> Names etched on the head of a pin. >> One name spanning a bridge, another undergoing a tunnel. >> A blue name needled into the skin. >> Names of citizens, workers, mothers and fathers, >> The bright-eyed daughter, the quick son. >> Alphabet of names in green rows in a field. >> Names in the small tracks of birds. >> Names lifted from a hat >> Or balanced on the tip of the tongue. >> Names wheeled into the dim warehouse of memory. >> So many names, there is barely room on the walls of the heart. >>=20 >> --Billy Collins >> Billy Collins, poet laureate of the United States, read this poem before >> Congress 9/6/02 at its joint session in New York City. >> -------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 9/11=20 >>=20 >> We adore images, we like the spectacle >> Of speed and size, the working of prodigious >> Systems. So on television we watched >>=20 >> The terrible spectacle, repetitiously gazing >> Until we were sick not only of the sight >> Of our prodigious systems turned against us >>=20 >> But of the very systems of our watching. >> The date became a word, an anniversary >> That we inscribed with meanings--who keep so few, >>=20 >> More likely to name an airport for an actor >> Or athlete than "First of May" or "Fourth of July." >> In the movies we dream up, our captured heroes >>=20 >> Tell the interrogator their commanding officer's name >> Is Colonel Donald Duck--he writes it down, code >> Of a lowbrow memory so assured it's nearly >>=20 >> Aristocratic. Some say the doomed firefighters >> Before they hurried into the doomed towers wrote >> Their Social Security numbers on their forearms. >>=20 >> Easy to imagine them kidding about it a little, >> As if they were filling out some workday form. >> Will Rogers was a Cherokee, a survivor >>=20 >> Of expropriation. A roper, a card. For some, >> A hero. He had turned sixteen the year >> That Frederick Douglass died. Douglass was twelve >>=20 >> When Emily Dickinson was born. Is even Donald >> Half-forgotten?--Who are the Americans, not >> A people by blood or religion? As it turned out, >>=20 >> The donated blood not needed, except as meaning. >> And on the other side that morning the guy >> Who shaved off all his body hair and screamed >>=20 >> The name of God with his boxcutter in his hand. >> O Americans--as Marianne Moore would say, >> Whence is our courage? Is what holds us together >>=20 >> A gluttonous dreamy thriving? Whence our being? >> In the dark roots of our music, impudent and profound?-- >> Or in the Eighteenth Century clarities >>=20 >> And mystic Masonic totems of the Founders: >> The Eye of the Pyramid watching over us, >> Hexagram of Stars protecting the Eagle's head >>=20 >> From terror of pox, from plague and radiation. >> And if they blow up the Statue of Liberty-- >> Then the survivors might likely in grief, terror >>=20 >> And excess build a dozen more, or produce >> A catchy song about it, its meaning as beyond >> Meaning as those symbols, or Ray Charles singing "America >>=20 >> The Beautiful." Alabaster cities, amber waves, >> Purple majesty. The back-up singers in sequins >> And high heels for a performance--or in the studio >>=20 >> In sneakers and headphones, engineers at soundboards, >> Musicians, all concentrating, faces as grave >> With purpose as the harbor Statue herself. >>=20 >> --Robert Pinsky >> Written by the former poet laureate for The Washington Post. Appeared in >> their Sunday Magazine 9/8/02; Page W26 >> -------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I Saw You Walking >>=20 >> I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station >> in your shoes of white ash. At the corner >> of my nervous glance your dazed passage >> first forced me away, tracing the crescent >> berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling >> all corners with ill will and his stench, but >> not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared >> clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb >> wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, >> the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. >> type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a >> parody of careful dress, preparedness -- >> so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this >> morning when your suit jacket (here are >> the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn >> by men like you on ordinary days) >> and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter >> come from the pit with nothing to carry >> but your life) were torn from you, as your life >> was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, >> leading your body north, though the age >> of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth >> and away from me, was unclear, the sandy >> crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but >> underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? >> forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- >> and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, >> dusted back, half shirted, walking away; >> I should have dropped to my knees to thank God >> you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. >>=20 >> --Deborah Garrison. The New Yorker, 22 October 2001. Reprinted in 110 >> Stories: New York Writes After September 11, edited by Ulrich Baer. New = York >> University Press. 2002. >> -------------------------------------------------- >=20 --B_3114584386_2603483 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #966 - 7 msgs Remember Billy’s big declaration about NEVER wri= ting a poem about it? It being “too big” for poetry, and all?  - - -
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: - -
“Will you ever write a poem about what happened on Tue= sday?"

"No," he says in a response that comes quickly and emphatically.<= BR>
"Why not?"

"You can't approach something like this frontally in a poem -- at leas= t I can't. It will knock you over. It is like walking into a big wave. You w= ill fall on your bathing suit."

Isn't it his job to set aside his feelings and write a poem offering us sol= ace, inspiration and wisdom?

No, says Collins. "I am a person before I am the poet laureate." = Rather than toiling away in an office in the basement of the White House com= posing birthday poems, his role is to be a literary ambassador, travelling t= he country and raising consciousness about the value of poetry. [though he a= pparently did not feel it had value for 9/11 back then. . .]
- - -

From: Barry Spacks <barry.spacks at verizon.net>
Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:03:08 -0700
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #966 - 7 msgs


At 12:01 PM 9/11/02 -0400, David Gr= aham wrote:

Here's the Collins and Pinsky, plus Deborah Garrison for lagniappe.


thanks, David -- would love to hear what your students
say about the three poems.

Barry


The Names

Yesterday, I lay awake in the palm of the night.
A fine rain stole in, unhelped by any breeze,
And when I saw the silver glaze on the windows,
I started with A, with Ackerman, as it happened,
Then Baxter and Calabro,
Davis and Eberling, names falling into place
As droplets fell through the dark.

Names printed on the ceiling of the night.
Names slipping around a watery bend.
Twenty-six willows on the banks of a stream.

In the morning, I walked out barefoot
Among thousands of flowers
Heavy with dew like the eyes of tears,
And each had a name —
Fiori inscribed on a yellow petal
Then Gonzalez and Han, Ishikawa and Jenkins.

Names written in the air
And stitched into the cloth of the day.
A name under a photograph taped to a mailbox.
Monogram on a torn shirt,
I see you spelled out on storefront windows
And on the bright unfurled awnings of this city.
I say the syllables as I turn a corner —
Kelly and Lee,
Medina, Nardella, and O'Connor.

When I peer into the woods,
I see a thick tangle where letters are hidden
As in a puzzle concocted for children.
Parker and Quigley in the twigs of an ash,
Rizzo, Schubert, Torres, and Upton,
Secrets in the boughs of an ancient maple.

Names written in the pale sky.
Names rising in the updraft amid buildings.
Names silent in stone
Or cried out behind a door.
Names blown over the earth and out to sea.

In the evening — weakening light, the last swallows.
A boy on a lake lifts his oars.
A woman by a window puts a match to a candle,
And the names are outlined on the rose clouds —
Vanacore and Wallace,
(let X stand, if it can, for the ones unfound)
Then Young and Ziminsky, the final jolt of Z.

Names etched on the head of a pin.
One name spanning a bridge, another undergoing a tunnel.
A blue name needled into the skin.
Names of citizens, workers, mothers and fathers,
The bright-eyed daughter, the quick son.
Alphabet of names in green rows in a field.
Names in the small tracks of birds.
Names lifted from a hat
Or balanced on the tip of the tongue.
Names wheeled into the dim warehouse of memory.
So many names, there is barely room on the walls of the heart.

--Billy Collins
Billy Collins, poet laureate of the United States, read this poem before Congress 9/6/02 at its joint session in New York City.
--------------------------------------------------



9/11

We adore images, we like the spectacle
Of speed and size, the working of prodigious
Systems. So on television we watched

The terrible spectacle, repetitiously gazing
Until we were sick not only of the sight
Of our prodigious systems turned against us

But of the very systems of our watching.
The date became a word, an anniversary
That we inscribed with meanings--who keep so few,

More likely to name an airport for an actor
Or athlete than "First of May" or "Fourth of July."
In the movies we dream up, our captured heroes

Tell the interrogator their commanding officer's name
Is Colonel Donald Duck--he writes it down, code
Of a lowbrow memory so assured it's nearly

Aristocratic. Some say the doomed firefighters
Before they hurried into the doomed towers wrote
Their Social Security numbers on their forearms.

Easy to imagine them kidding about it a little,
As if they were filling out some workday form.
Will Rogers was a Cherokee, a survivor

Of expropriation. A roper, a card. For some,
A hero. He had turned sixteen the year
That Frederick Douglass died. Douglass was twelve

When Emily Dickinson was born. Is even Donald
Half-forgotten?--Who are the Americans, not
A people by blood or religion? As it turned out,

The donated blood not needed, except as meaning.
And on the other side that morning the guy
Who shaved off all his body hair and screamed

The name of God with his boxcutter in his hand.
O Americans--as Marianne Moore would say,
Whence is our courage? Is what holds us together

A gluttonous dreamy thriving? Whence our being?
In the dark roots of our music, impudent and profound?--
Or in the Eighteenth Century clarities

And mystic Masonic totems of the Founders:
The Eye of the Pyramid watching over us,
Hexagram of Stars protecting the Eagle's head

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And if they blow up the Statue of Liberty--
Then the survivors might likely in grief, terror

And excess build a dozen more, or produce
A catchy song about it, its meaning as beyond
Meaning as those symbols, or Ray Charles singing "America

The Beautiful." Alabaster cities, amber waves,
Purple majesty. The back-up singers in sequins
And high heels for a performance--or in the studio

In sneakers and headphones, engineers at soundboards,
Musicians, all concentrating, faces as grave
With purpose as the harbor Statue herself.

--Robert Pinsky
Written by the former poet laureate for The Washington Post. Appeared in their Sunday Magazine 9/8/02; Page W26
--------------------------------------------------



I Saw You Walking

I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station
in your shoes of white ash. At the corner
of my nervous glance your dazed passage
first forced me away, tracing the crescent
berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling
all corners with ill will and his stench, but
not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared
clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb
wet with muscle and shining dimly pink,
the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros.
type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a
parody of careful dress, preparedness --
so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this
morning when your suit jacket (here are
the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn
by men like you on ordinary days)
and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter
come from the pit with nothing to carry
but your life) were torn from you, as your life
was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking,
leading your body north, though the age
of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth
and away from me, was unclear, the sandy
crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but
underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven?
forty-eight? The age of someone's father --
and I trembled for your luck, for your broad,
dusted back, half shirted, walking away;
I should have dropped to my knees to thank God
you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe.

--Deborah Garrison.  The New Yorker, 22 October 2001. Reprinted in &nb= sp;110
Stories: New York Writes After September 11, edited by Ulrich Baer. New Yor= k
University Press. 2002.
--------------------------------------------------


 --B_3114584386_2603483-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: http://www.nysun.com/sunarticle.asp?artID=205 Jeff Newberry --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-1759880469-1032961491=:46467 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

From Poetry Daily's news page:

 

http://www.nysun.com/sunarticle.asp?artID=205

 

Jeff Newberry


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-1759880469-1032961491=:46467-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: He paid me fifty shillings down, I sailed with eighteen hundred sheep; We soon had cleared the harbour's mouth, We soon were in the salt sea deep. The first night we were out at sea, Those sheep were quiet in their mind; The second night they cried with fear - They smelt no pastures in the wind. They sniffed, poor things, for their green fields, They cried so loud I could not sleep: For fifty thousand shillings down I would not sail again with sheep. --W. H. Davies SITUATIONS pub date October 1 to order - or for more info http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards/situations.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Formless and soft beyond the fence it brooks Or rises as a faint and rotten musk Out of a broken stalk. There are some things of which we seldom talk; For instance, the woman next door, whom we hear at night, Claims that when she was small She found a man stone dead near the cedar trees After the first snowfall. The air was clear. He seemed in ultimate peace Except that he had no eyes. Rigid and bright Upon the forehead, furred With a light frost, crouched an outrageous bird. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: To me it's not a bad poem, although those lines quoted in the NYTimes are indeed filled with hate, as Gerald Stern, who pushed for Baraka to become NJ Laureate, himself laments. But does their context in the poem undermine or affirm their conspiratorial scenario? It is a more complicated poem than the NYTimes makes it out to be, is very wide-ranging historically, and despite the relentless series of hortatory questioning lines (in a long poem) beginning with the word "Who," there is sufficient variation in who precisely the "Who" implicitly indicts to make the composite of this guy or nation totally contradictory and overdetermined. One can read the end of the poem as reflexively aware of its own ultimate rhetorical futility; the last line is "Whoooo and Whooooooooooooooooooooo!" which sounds like a pathetic version of an owl (wisdom etc) to me. It's that variation and ambiguity of address that makes the poem not simply a 2D diatribe but rather itself caught in its own conspiratorial web. As you yourself, astute pop cult guru dude, know, Baraka is riding the wave of Baha Man's single "Who Let the Dogs Out" in the way that "Who" begins virtually every line of the poem. "Who Let the Dogs Out" has generated in the media countless phrases from "Who Let the Boss Out" to "Who Let the Mets Out" and so on. So there's an iteration there in Baraka's form, not to mention a semantic confirmation in the song title's question itself. There are so many egregious lines in Baraka's poem. (If anyone wants to read it, it's the first that comes up on Google when you enter "Somebody Blew Up America.") Most of the lines work by what linguist Oswald Ducrot calls the implicit presupposition -- the lines create what they then implicitly assume to be factually true. Thus "Who invented AIDS" assumes that AIDS was invented -- which was a vicious fundamentalist heresay used to create a scapegoat, yet fairly common tabloid and ultraright fare in the early 80s. Or your example, which assumes that there were in fact Israelis who snapped photos and laughed, which as you say, is preposterous. That "somebody" of the title is never identified consistently other than as "sombody." "They say" is a phrase repeated a few times at the poem's beginning, which then segues into "Who" (is "they"). Heresay, mystification, is the order of the poem. Who is this "who"? No idea. "They" don't add up, either. Just to be sure, I never did suggest that the poem is "more 'interesting' because of these slights," which would suggest (again, by the implicit presupposition) that I approve of them as slights on their own terms, which I certainly do not (you already know this, right?). It's true that I don't know of any version of the poem without these slights. But I wanted to suggest what I found interesting about the poem, which is how it diverges from the usual protest poem genre (some features of which Al raises). Usually the protest poem is certain of what it is protesting, etc. Just think of an Anne Waldman protest poem; some of it can be excruciatingly rantlike. But that certainty is lacking in Baraka's poem, in my view. I think that's the timely sociohistorical point (it's not a novel idea) the poem is making, that the question of who is the terrorist, and why, is open ended and uncertain. The larger question of the poem's effectiveness in reflexively dealing with the nature of conspiracy (and, Josh, you mention the poem's violence, which I would align with this issue of conspiracy, too) is very much debatable. Does the poem take advantage of conspiracy mongering, of heresay, of mystification, or does the poem undermine such conflated logics and twisted fabulations by rendering a conspirator's quest for the identity of the culprit completely futile and absurd? That's for every reader to decide. It's perhaps an especially difficult decision in this case. Moving beyond the poem, which I think we can't help but do even as we read it, to feelings about current events, feelings that no doubt make talking about this Baraka poem only more difficult, the "awful truth," as Michael Moore would say, is that it's really really difficult to get to any facts whatsoever in the present crisis, and *then* to know what to do with them (!). And that makes the Baraka poem only more frustrating for some I would imagine, because, from this larger context of genuine need for basic knowledge, he seems to be merely exacerbating the worst forms of ignorance, which is the easiest thing to do -- he should know better -- and is not helping the matter. I might be reading the poem against Baraka's own authorial intentions (certainly his past, to a degree) in that the NYTimes quotes someone as saying that when Baraka read the poem, it was as if he really believed in the conspiracy stories that his poem recounted. Now, is that Baraka (in which case, I would probably have walked out of his reading), or that particular listener (which could mean any number of things)? Gotta go. Much love, Louis From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > I think that in reviewing or writing any sort of criticism > (including introductions and afterwords to books), one can > approach texts in a generous way or an ungenerous way--i.e., > determined to point out to readers the qualities that make > one value the texts, or determined to point out the shortcomings; > a balanced approach might point out both accomplishments > and flaws. I agree that a reviewer who considers a text > "flawed" because it doesn't do what the _reviewer_ would > have liked it to do (or wants all texts to do), rather > than because it doesn't do something that the text itself > would seem to demand, is being unfair. I disagree. If I complain of the two-word poem, "Run,/ son," that all it does is rhyme--it doesn't provide a reader with the kind of fresh visceral knowledge of running that a poem using a good metaphor could, I am not being unfair. > That said, a reviewer > isn't a teacher, either, whose policy may be to err on the > side of praise and encouragement in the hope that the > writer may do better next time. The audience for the > teacher's comments is the writer; the audience for the > reviewer's comments is the reader/bookbuyer--and in many cases, > also other reviewers and critics. > The ungenerous quality of reviews like that of Collins cited above > derives in part from the reviewer's feeling that a corrective > to unwarranted praise is called for. She is arguing with > Collins's reputation (and those who reinforce it) as much > as with Collins's poetry. But that is what criticism is > often about, whether one likes it or not (i.e., the > attempt to "rank" writers one against another, rather than > to value each book or writer on the merits and leave it at that). > I don't think there's anything inherently unfair about this > enterprise; the questions are whether the review backs up its > claim credibly Shouldda stopped there. >and whether one can detect some ulterior motive in the > reviewer (such as professional envy). The motive of the reviewer is irrelevant. If he backs up his assessment with quotations and common sense, it doesn't matter if he hates the poet because the poet beat him out for a job, or a lover, his opinion is worth serious consideration. If he fails to back up his assessment with quotations and common sense, it doesn't matter how "professionally" he puts aside any personal feelings he has regarding the poet, his opinion is worthless. And I'm going to stop here, though Roger G. had much more to say, most of it more reasonable than not. --Bob G. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > It seems to me that schools of poetry were determined by scholars of > literature as an Aristotelian means of categorizing aesthetic movements > symptomatic of a given time or age. Sure. Since most poetries were at first pretty similar, there was little need to do much more. > Especially since the "New Critics," the > approach to interpreting poetry valorized certain poets and devalued > others, emphasizing art for art's sake, the importance of irony, etc. In > order to validate shifts in artistic consciousness, certain poets began to > categorize themselves: Pound & Eliot; the "Beat" movement; the > Objectivists; the Expansive Poets; the Language Poets. But there have also been critics who have categorized poets simply for clarity. >Since academia is > one market where a mass of students are required to read assigned works of > literature, to be part of a literary movement is a selling point for many > writers. However, in the actual world of writing, thinking in schools leads > to following the herd, an instinct that might result in greater > marketability but not necessarily in worthwhile poetry. I believe that in the actual world of writing, mediocrities follow the herd whether the school the herd belongs to is named or not. Thinking in schools has nothing to do with conforming, but simply with distinguishing various kinds of poetry from one another. It annoys me that the fact that morons might swarm to a well-named school is considered a point against "thinking in schools." >> Most writers whom I > > know, wherther making fiction or poetry, do not think in schools, and many > > refuse to be categorized. I think a creative artist who thinks in schools while in the act of creating a work is a fool; I think a creative artist who does not think in schools after finishing a work is a greater fool. --Bob G. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Hypoallergenic menu - Hypoallergenic menu = "I am" means I'm not Uninhabited @ the store Without roots on a shelf - Jimmy Bob Grumman wrote: > > I have more than a few things I really need to write, so have decided to > annoy the good anti-analyticality people at New Poetry again, to avoid the > more important chores I have facing me. > > Actually, I feel this may be a constructive post, at least for me, for I'm > one of those strange poets who is interested in what the constituents of > effective poetry are. I have given the question a shot or two over the > years and may have already answered it satisfactorily but don't remember > exactly what I've said. The brief discussion about the value of Baraka's > poetry got me thinking about it again. So, here's one more try at answering > it. > > Note: I don't think the list of the elements of an effective poem I'm going > to present as my answer is exhaustive. I am presenting it as much in the > hopes that others can add to it as I am to organize my own thoughts. Also: > I doubt that any effective poem will contain all the elements I list, or > should. I do say that any genuine poem must contain some minimum number of > them. For now, I would prefer not to have to argue about the relative > importance of the elements, just about whether they belong on my list or > not. Oh, and I make no pretence of being original or profound. I hope only > to be close to complete. > > My List: > > 1. Words or textual matter which act like words (e.g., abbreviations of > words, symbols like the ampersand, etc.). Even these seemingly basic > elements are in dispute as the sine qua non I believe them to be. Be that > as it may, no one could contend that they are NOT an element of most poems. > > 2. Sensual Richness, by which I mean something that awakens some strong > sensual response in the person experiencing a poem--visual, auditory, > olfactory, tactile, sexual, and so forth, in any combination. In order to > have this, a poem's words or other content must either be able to cause a > sensual response directly or refer to subject matter that will. For it to > do this well, the following elements should help: > > A. Conciseness (since sensual richness should equal the sensual response of > the person experiencing it over the size of poem); central to this is what I > call: > > B. Freshness of Expression (since the more familiar one is with what's in a > poem, the less likely it will be able to cause any kind of intense sensual > response); > > C. Coherence (since, in opposition to B, the more unfamiliar one is with > what's in a poem, the less likely it will be able to cause any kind of > intense sensual response); grammaticality, unspecializedness, aptness of > words chosen and the like would be components contributing to this (but > their opposites would often contribute to Freshness of Expression); > > D. Unity (since a poem consisting of two or more unconnected parts will only > give one a single response to each part whereas a poem unifying those parts > will give one those same responses PLUS responses to each combination of > parts--e.g., a poem consisting of stanza x and stanza y will give the person > experiencing it only responses x and y if the two stanzas are not united; if > the two stanzas are united, however, the poem will give the person response > xy besides responses x and y) > > E. Equaphorical Vigor, by which I mean the effective use of metaphors and > related devices such as similes which I call "equaphors" in my poetics: good > use of equaphors increases conciseness but, equally or more important, > allows a person experiencing a poem to respond sensually to two or more > major stimuli at once which must increase the richness of the response. > > 3. Maximal Span, or size and range (important, I feel, because the more of > existence one poem covers compared to a second poem, the larger the > experience one ought to be able to get from the first poem, other things > being equal); contributing to this are the number and variety of subjects > the poem covers, the variety of vocabulary it uses, including non-verbal > vocabulary such as graphic images, mathematical symbols, and so on; > > 4. Archetypal Depth (since some subject matter is clearly of more > significance to human beings than other, and the most important subject > matter seems to be that which has entered human mythologies--maternal love, > for instance; sexual attraction, jealousy, etc.; the quest for triumph over > enemies, for peace, for Israel, for fame as a singer, etc.; > > 5. Filler, or elements without poetic value that most poems will have simply > because few poems can be nothing but poetry. > > Summary: given that a poem must consist of words or elements that act like > words, I define an effective poem as having three dimensions: sensual > richness (width), maximal span (length) and archetypal depth (depth), with > five secondary elements contributing consequentially to sensual > richness:conciseness, freshness of expression, coherence, unity and > equaphorical vigor. > > That's it. Comments welcome. I left off "Moral Correctness," by the way, > not only because I'm an anti-Puritan but because I feel "Archetypal Depth" > covers it--that is, I think what most people consider immoral has little or > no archetypal depth--for instance, a poem expressing the joy of killing > babies for the fun of it would not click archetypally with most people. . . > . > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: it, too. DG =========== > I hope you can join us for a live discussion with poet Carl Rakosi. > > --Al Filreis > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > > "Carl Rakosi's determined honesty and > reductive rhetoric with its ungainsayable > plainsong have made a measure for > all conduct of words in the attempt to > find an active poetry in the fact > of lives without power."--Robert Creeley > > > THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE > > presents > > conversation with > > CARL RAKOSI > > on the occasion of his 99th birthday > > via live audiocast > > 7 PM (eastern time), Wednesday, October 30, > > | co-moderated by > | Tom Devaney & Al Filreis > > With great pleasure we invite you to join us for a reading and > conversation > with Carl Rakosi, who will come to us telephonically from his home in San > Francisco. The program will be audiocast live worldwide. You can > participate > by coming to the Kelly Writers House at 3805 Locust Walk in Philadelphia, > where an audience will converse directly with Rakosi by an amplified phone > connection. That conversation will be audiocast, and thus you can also > join > us, wherever you are, by making a simple connection to the web. Audiocast > participants will be able to pose questions for Carl Rakosi via email or > by > phone. > > If you intend to participate, please write to > > < whrakosi at english.upenn.edu > > > and be sure to indicate if you will attend at the Writers House or will > participate from a distance through the audiocast. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > For more about Rakosi's life and work and this event, see: > > http://www.english.upenn.edu/~wh/rakosi.html > > Carl Rakosi began publishing his poetry in the 1920s. His work was > published > by Ezra Pound and others in magazines assoicated with a group of writers > now > known as the "Objectivists." His _Collected Poems_ (1986) and _Collected > Prose_ (1983) were both published by the National Poetry Foundation at > Orono, Maine. His _Poems 1923-1941_ (published by Sun and Moon Press) won > the PEN Center USA West award in 1996. Carl Rakosi lives in San Francisco. > > Tom Devaney is a poet and Program Coordinator at the Kelly Writers House. > Al > Filreis is Class of 1942 Professor of English at Penn and Faculty Director > of the Kelly Writers House. > > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: (Boston Herald, January 10, 2001): A former chair of the National Endowment for the Humanities for presidents Reagan and Bush, Lynne Cheney once called for the abolishment of both the NEA and NEH. Recent statements indicate she has softened her stance. But insiders wonder if she privately remains a fan of eliminating both agencies. ``You've got to think she made a conscious decision to lower her public profile on this issue,'' said one source who requested anonymity. ``But Lynne is an old Washington insider. If she's going to exert influence, she's going to do it invisibly.'' http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/arts_culture/nea01102001.htm The ever thoughtfully engaged Sally __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing. We have Native writers, Punjab writers, and (of course) nature writers. Plus more: we have those who write free verse, lyrical, narrative. Just as our culture is complex and art is as well. It is with great pride that Canadian artists are seeing our work accepted more on the international stage. Yes, three writers (2 of who are also poets) have been awarded the Booker! I celebrate the diversity of my land, my people and my poetry. In harmony, diana From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing. Bob C. replies: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Margaret Atwood, each poet brings their, (better, his/her) unique background to writing. Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- message from Rsgwynn1 at cs.com attached: ------------=_1035915413-16257-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (wiz.cath.vt.edu [128.173.51.243]) by imta05.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43C11911BF for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wiz.cath.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A731101F8; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:25:09 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by wiz.cath.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD618101F6 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from Rsgwynn1 at cs.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id j.ac.2ffb33ce (3310) for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:24:22 -0500 (EST) From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Message-ID: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Canadian Poetry To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ac.2ffb33ce.2af01e46_boundary" X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 6.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:24:22 EST --part1_ac.2ffb33ce.2af01e46_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/29/2002 10:53:16 AM Central Standard Time, ddstokes at telusplanet.net writes: > From Richard Service to today's top poets such as Robert Hilles and > Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing. Say who? --part1_ac.2ffb33ce.2af01e46_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/29/2002 10:53:16 AM Central Standard Time, ddstokes at telusplanet.net writes:


From Richard Service to today's top poets such as Robert Hilles and
Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing.


Say who? --part1_ac.2ffb33ce.2af01e46_boundary-- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------=_1035915413-16257-1-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing. ______ Wasn't Richard Service heavily influenced by Rudolph Kipling? And let's not forget that noble Canadian-American from Prince Edward Island, Mike Strand , who served so ably as our Pet Lariat. ======================================== David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html "We're writing the book on quality: personal, undergraduate education." Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ======================================= --MS_Mac_OE_3118772117_401280_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Canadian Poetry
From Richard Service to today's top = poets such as Robert Hilles and
Margaret Atwood, each poet = brings there unique background to writing.
______

Wasn't Richard Service heavily influenced by Rudolph Kipling?

And let's not forget that noble Canadian-American from Prince Edward Island= , Mike Strand , who served so ably as our Pet Lariat.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
David Graham
Professor of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
   Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
   Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

"We're writing the book on quality: personal,
undergraduate education."
   Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--MS_Mac_OE_3118772117_401280_MIME_Part-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Square, my wife, who very seldom talked To guides, and Rudolph, gesturing as he led Us down the slushy street. "It's only mists," She says again, and held her hand upturned; "It's rain!" our furred intrepid Red insists, "Good Russian rain for which the crops have yearned For many weeks!" They argued like the weather: Not showing any signs of letting up. What had their conversation there together To do with how each system viewed the cup: Half full, half empty? Nothing. "It's all in vain, dear," I finally said, "For Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear." Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Margaret Atwood, each poet brings there unique background to writing. ______ Wasn't Richard Service heavily influenced by Rudolph Kipling? And let's not forget that noble Canadian-American from Prince Edward Island, Mike Strand , who served so ably as our Pet Lariat. ======================================== David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html "We're writing the book on quality: personal, undergraduate education." Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ======================================= --MS_Mac_OE_3118772117_401280_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Canadian Poetry
From Richard Service to today's top = poets such as Robert Hilles and
Margaret Atwood, each poet = brings there unique background to writing.
______

Wasn't Richard Service heavily influenced by Rudolph Kipling?

And let's not forget that noble Canadian-American from Prince Edward Island= , Mike Strand , who served so ably as our Pet Lariat.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
David Graham
Professor of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
   Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
   Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

"We're writing the book on quality: personal,
undergraduate education."
   Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--MS_Mac_OE_3118772117_401280_MIME_Part-- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------=_1035993385-6729-0-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: --Charles Simic fr. *Weather Forecast for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems 1967-1982* [Barrytown, New York: Station Hill Press, 1983] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: --Charles Simic fr. *Weather Forecast for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems 1967-1982* [Barrytown, New York: Station Hill Press, 1983] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-946602449-1036592215=:92781 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Thanks, Hal.

This poems is one of the reasons that I love Charles Simic's work.  It's plain-spoken:  "A kid found its loose pages."  Yet, there's something more here than simple language.  I love the implications of a history book flying over the tire dump, out to where a cripple waves from a passing barge.  Are we to assume that this is a book of American history, a text book perhaps?  Or--?

Again, thanks.  Interesting and thought-provoking poem--with no petty academic parlor tricks.

Jeff Newberry

 Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:


History Book

A kid found its loose pages
On a busy street
He stopped bouncing his ball
To run after them.

They fluttered from his hands
Like butterflies.
He could only glimpse
A few names, a date.

At the outskirts the wind
Took them high.
They were swept over the used-tire dump
Into the grey river,

Where they drown kittens--
And the barge passes,
The one they named Victory
From which a cripple waves.

--Charles Simic

fr. *Weather Forecast for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems
1967-1982*

[Barrytown, New York: Station Hill Press, 1983]


Hal

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard at earthlink.net
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-946602449-1036592215=:92781-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: It has rained, and now it looks Like it's going to snow a little. I see him get up to lower the shades. If their window stays dark, I know that his hand has reached hers Just as she was about to turn on the lights. --Charles Simic Hal Thanks, Hal. This poems is one of the reasons that I love Charles Simic's work. It's plain-spoken: "A kid found its loose pages." Yet, there's something more here than simple language. I love the implications of a history book flying over the tire dump, out to where a cripple waves from a passing barge. Are we to assume that this is a book of American history, a text book perhaps? Or--? Again, thanks. Interesting and thought-provoking poem--with no petty academic parlor tricks. Jeff Newberry Halvard Johnson wrote: History Book A kid found its loose pages On a busy street He stopped bouncing his ball To run after them. They fluttered from his hands Like butterflies. He could only glimpse A few names, a date. At the outskirts the wind Took them high. They were swept over the used-tire dump Into the grey river, Where they drown kittens-- And the barge passes, The one they named Victory From which a cripple waves. --Charles Simic fr. *Weather Forecast for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems 1967-1982* [Barrytown, New York: Station Hill Press, 1983] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.ed u/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C28582.616D7040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm glad you = like it,=20 Jeff. Now, my wife Lynda insists that I send this
other one, = from the page=20 just opposite "History Book."
 
Old=20 Couple
 
They're = waiting to be=20 murdered,
Or evicted.=20 Soon
They expect = to have=20 nothing to eat.
As far as I = know, they=20 never go out.
 
A vicious = pain's coming,=20 they think.
It will = start in the=20 head
And spread = down to the=20 bowels.
They'll be = carried off=20 on stretchers, howling.
 
In the = meantime, they=20 watch the street
From their = fifth floor=20 window.
It has = rained, and now=20 it looks
Like it's = going to snow=20 a little.
 
I see him = get up to=20 lower the shades.
If their = window stays=20 dark,
I know that = his hand has=20 reached hers
Just as she = was about to=20 turn on the lights.
 
--Charles=20 Simic
 
Hal
Thanks, Hal. =

This poems is one of the reasons that I love Charles Simic's = work. =20 It's plain-spoken:  "A kid found its loose pages."  Yet, = there's=20 something more here than simple language.  I love the = implications of a=20 history book flying over the tire dump, out to where a cripple waves = from a=20 passing barge.  Are we to assume that this is a book of American = history,=20 a text book perhaps?  Or--?=20

Again, thanks.  Interesting and thought-provoking poem--with = no petty=20 academic parlor tricks.=20

Jeff Newberry=20

 Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> = wrote:=20
History=20 Book

A kid found its loose pages
On a busy street
He = stopped=20 bouncing his ball
To run after them.

They fluttered from = his=20 hands
Like butterflies.
He could only glimpse
A few names, = a=20 date.

At the outskirts the wind
Took them high.
They = were swept=20 over the used-tire dump
Into the grey river,

Where they = drown=20 kittens--
And the barge passes,
The one they named = Victory
From=20 which a cripple waves.

--Charles Simic

fr. *Weather = Forecast=20 for Utopia & Vicinity: Poems
1967-1982*

[Barrytown, = New York:=20 Station Hill Press, 1983]


Hal

Halvard=20 Johnson
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
email: = halvard at earthlink.net
website:=20 = http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard


___________________________= ____________________
New-Poetry=20 mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.ed=20 u/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! = News -=20 Today's headlines ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C28582.616D7040-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: work of poet and long-time Vermont resident, Hayden Carruth. This is a rare opportunity for Vermonters to hear and honor one of America's greatest living poets. Carruth, who is now eighty-one years old, and thirty-one other poets will read from Carruth's work in four locations throughout the state. On Tuesday, November 12th, in the Vermont House Chamber at the State House, Carruth will be awarded a proclamation signed by Governor Howard Dean honoring his life and work and his long devotion to Vermont and Vermonters. Poets reading Mr. Carruth's poems at the State House ceremonies, which will begin at 6:00 p.m., include: David Budbill, John Engels, Jody Gladding, Geof Hewitt, David Huddle, Galway Kinnell, former Governor Madeleine Kunin, Ellen Lovell, and State Poet, Ellen Bryant Voigt. Governor Kunin will present Governor Dean's Proclamation to Mr. Carruth. A reception in the Cedar Creek Room will follow the House Chamber ceremonies. For more information contact: David Schutz (802) 828-5657. On Thursday, November 14th, the moveable feast of words will travel to St. Johnsbury. The readings will be held at St. Andrews Church beginning at 6:00 p.m., followed by a reception at the St. Johnsbury Athenaeum. Poets reading in St. Johnsbury are: Major Jackson, Garret Keizer, Galway Kinnell, Leland Kinsey, Grace Paley, Jim Schley, Neil Shepard, Gerry Stork and Martha Zweig. For more information contact: Lisa von Kann (802)748-8291. On Saturday, November 16th, the celebration travels to Brattleboro to Center Congregational Church where the readings begin at 6:00 p.m. Poets reading in Brattleboro will be: Joan Aleshire, Wyn Cooper, Chard deNiord, Ellen Dudley, T. Namaya, Franklin Reeve, Stephen Sandy and Ellen Bryant Voigt. Bill Shontz will be playing a jazz introduction. A reception and book signing will follow the readings at the River View Garden. For more information contact: T. Namaya (802) 254-8084. On Monday, November 18th, in Middlebury, the final celebration takes place at 4:30 p.m. at Middlebury College's Chateau Salon. Readers in Middlebury include: Julia Alvarez, T. Alan Broughton, Greg Delanty, Dimiter Kenarov, Joe-Anne McLaughlin, Brett Millier and Jay Parini. A reception and book signing will follow at Chateau Salon. For more information contact: Jay Parini (802) 545-4444. Hayden Carruth moved to Vermont in 1960, and for twenty years lived in a small house, which he dubbed Crow's Mark, squeezed between a dirt road and the banks of Foote Brook in Johnson. During those years his workplace, a few steps away from the house, was a tiny, converted cowshed heated by a woodstove. There Hayden composed some of his greatest works, including his unique poems on the values and ways of Vermont farmers. Some of the books of poems composed while living in Johnson are: THE CLAY HILL ANTHOLOGY (1965), FROM SNOW AND ROCK, FROM CHAOS (1973), IF YOU CALL THIS CRY A SONG (1983), DARK WORLD (1974), BROTHERS, I LOVED YOU ALL (1978), and THE SLEEPING BEAUTY (1970-1980). During these two decades Carruth eked out a living as an essayist, book reviewer and anthologist. His anthology, THE VOICE THAT IS GREAT WITHIN US: AMERICAN POETRY OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY (1970) is one of the most celebrated and influential anthologies of the last fifty years. Beginning in the late 1960s, and for the decade that followed, Hayden became a generous, enthusiastic and inspiring mentor and friend to many young poets and novelists who had come to Vermont to live and work. Many of these friends from the 1970s will be among the readers honoring him at the four venues throughout the state. All of the writers, whether old friends or more recent admirers, are delighted to have this opportunity to express their affection for Hayden Carruth himself and for his work. In 1980, out of economic necessity, Hayden began teaching at Syracuse University where he continued to teach until his retirement. Carruth now lives in Munnsville, New York, but his spiritual and emotional home remains here in the Green Mountain State. Hayden Carruth was born on August 3, 1921, in Waterbury, Connecticut, and was educated at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of Chicago. Noted for the breadth of his linguistic and formal resources, influenced by jazz and the blues, Carruth has published twenty-nine books, chiefly of poetry but also a novel, four books of criticism, and two anthologies. Informed by his political radicalism and sense of cultural responsibility, many of Carruth's best-known poems are about the people and places of northern Vermont, as well as rural poverty and hardship. In 1996 SCRAMBLED EGGS AND WHISKEY won the National Book Award for poetry. His most recent book of poems is DOCTOR JAZZ: POEMS 1996-2000, published in 2001 by his long-time publisher Copper Canyon Press. Other recent books from Copper Canyon Press include, COLLECTED SHORTER POEMS: 1946-1991, RELUCTANTLY: AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL ESSAYS, SELECTED ESSAYS & REVIEWS and COLLECTED LONGER POEMS. He has been editor of POETRY, poetry editor of HARPER'S, and, for 20 years, an advisory editor of THE HUDSON REVIEW. Carruth has received fellowships from the Bollingen Foundation, the Guggenheim Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Arts, and a 1995 Lannan Literary Fellowship. He has been presented with the Lenore Marshall Award, the Paterson Poetry Prize, the Vermont Governor's Medal, the Carl Sandburg Award, a Whiting Writers' Award and the Ruth Lilly Prize, among many others. All events during this week of celebrations are free. Everyone is cordially invited and encouraged to attend. The events are sponsored by the St. Johnsbury Athenaeum and supported by a generous grant from The Lannan Foundation. MORE--MORE--MORE-- WHAT OTHERS SAY ABOUT HAYDEN CARRUTH He is the consummate poet of easeful learning and well-tuned orneriness. Perhaps this is why, at eighty, Carruth--unlike his great master, Frost--keeps getting better. The New Yorker Carruth is a people's poet, readily understood, a tribune of our common humanity, welfare and plight. He is also a poet's poet, a virtuoso of form from the sonnet to free verse, from medieval metrics to jazz ones. The Nation This is work of high artistic and moral integrity. The Harvard Review Carruth, like Whitman, like Chaucer, is large. He contains multitudes. Dip into his work anywhere, and there is life--and death--as stirringly felt and cogitated as in some vast, Tolstoyan novel. Booklist (starred review) Rarely do poets earn the unqualified admiration of both their academic and experimental peers, but Carruth--through his artistic versatility and critical ecumenism--has been doing just that for half a century....Carruth's personal blend of wit, Weltanschauung, and conscience is indelibly his own, one of the lasting literary signatures of our time. Library Journal (starred review) He writes of the two extremes--life and death--with such felicity. Hayden Carruth has spoken eloquently, and it is the language of a blessed trust in the imagination. The Bloomsbury Review Hayden Carruth's voice is unique in American poetry: disarmingly personal but always informed by an acute historical and political intelligence, linguistically demotic and direct while prosodically complex and diverse. National Book Award citation NOTE: A digital version of this text and a jpeg portrait of Hayden Carruth are available from Lisa Von Kann at: lvkann at stjathenaeum.org From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Lilly Heir Makes $100 Million Bequest to Poetry Magazine By STEPHEN KINZER CHICAGO, Nov. 18 - An ailing heir who tried but failed to have her poems published in a small literary journal has given that journal an astonishing bequest that is likely to be worth more than $100 million. Ruth Lilly, 87, an heir to the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical fortune, submitted several poems to Poetry Magazine in the 1970's and was rewarded only with handwritten rejection notes from the editor, Joseph Parisi. Evidently she did not take the rejections to heart. Mr. Parisi announced her gift at the magazine's 90th-anniversary dinner on Friday. "Its a real mind-blower," said the United States' poet laureate, Billy Collins, who was at the dinner. "Poetry has always had the reputation as being the poor little match girl of the arts. Well, the poor little match girl just hit the lottery." This gift has suddenly turned Poetry from a struggling journal little known outside literary circles to one of the world's richest publications. Mr. Parisi said it was by far the largest single donation ever made to an institution devoted to poetry. "There just isn't anything to compare it to," Mr. Parisi said. "We will be the largest foundation in the world devoted to poetry. It's a huge responsibility, as I'm realizing every day more and more." Poetry Magazine was founded in 1912 by Harriet Monroe, who had worked as an art critic for The Chicago Tribune. Like many journals dedicated to fine literature, it has been poor for most of its life. At times its assets have been less than $100. It has never missed an issue, however, and is one of the oldest continuously published literary journals in the United States. The magazine has published works by some of the most celebrated poets of the 20th century, including T. S. Eliot, Carl Sandburg, Dylan Thomas, Robert Frost, Ezra Pound, William Carlos Williams, John Ashbery and Wallace Stevens. It pays a flat rate of $2 a line and has a monthly circulation of 12,000. Mr. Parisi said he had not met Ms. Lilly but understood that she was pleased with the way his magazine handled her previous donations. During the 1980's she endowed two fellowships for young poets and a poetry prize that is now worth $100,000. "Last month I got a call from a lawyer who said he was preparing a new estate plan for Mrs. Lilly and that we were to be one of the beneficiaries," Mr. Parisi said. "He told me I better sit down because it was going to be quite a large amount of money. When we got over there, we found this estate document that was literally eight inches thick. It's a very complicated structure, with money coming in over 15 or 20 years or more. Part of it is based on stock prices. I don't understand it all myself yet. Nobody knows exactly how much it will ultimately be, but let's say were comfortably into the nine figures." Mr. Parisi said he was hiring money managers and investment advisers. He said part of the gift would be used to expand the magazine's four-member staff, which handles everything from editing to typesetting, and move it out of its cramped quarters on the second floor of a private library in Chicago. Beyond that, Mr. Parisi said, he hopes to start programs to draw more people to poetry, including one to train middle school and high school teachers how to introduce their students to contemporary poetry. "This is something that will ultimately be nationwide, and I hope it will grow like Topsy," he said. "Our overall mission will remain the same, which is to encourage poets every which way we can and to increase the audience for poetry." News of the donation stunned the poetry world. "It's really wonderful that poetry can get this kind of attention and affection," said Aime Beal, managing editor of Alice James Books, a small publisher in Maine that specializes in poetry. "I can't imagine having a budget like that. You could do anything." The Michigan poet Richard Tillinghast said the donation "seems to come right out of the blue, but on the other hand it is harmonious with the greater visibility of poetry over the last 10 years." "I've got a very high opinion of Poetry Magazine," Mr. Tillinghast said. "You can pick up an issue and see a very representative selection of what's going on in poetry. So this is great news from every point of view." Ms. Lilly has made many donations to charitable institutions, concentrating them in her native Indiana. Money from her fortune has gone to help build parks, libraries and hospitals, as well as for more unusual purposes like supporting members of the clergy who want to take time off from their routines to reflect on their calling. Unlike many philanthropists, Ms. Lilly does not seek publicity. Many recipients of her largess are not even aware of her involvement. "She doesn't want her name on anything, and I doubt she's ever cut a ribbon," Mr. Parisi said. "That's good for us, because you don't get a plaque for supporting poetry. You better get a reward in heaven, because you sure won't get one on earth." From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: At best I am always in the process of narrating my bewilderment in the world, in language, in society. I use my bewilderment to disclose an environment where something like "what is true to me" can take place in a speech act. I guess my work in some way narrates the gaps I read between my reception and what is known. And the process is an embodied one. It can be either painful or joyful to realize a gap and express the loneliness of an animal differentiating from other animals and things. Even if the action of the poem is successful in creating that very connection to a world. In this way all poetry is a lament. What does this mean in relation to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E? I would say that the connection for me is that we all share an interest in modernity. We share common texts. Whether it be the writings of Emily Dickinson or Jack Spicer. Ezra Pound or H.D. Gertrude Stein or John Cage. George Oppen or Lorine Niedecker. It is about listening to a tradition that provides method and ground in our present. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: selected by a poet new to me. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Some others from the past year that I was most happy to have read: Tina Kelley. *The Gospel of Galore*. Terrance Hayes. *Hip Logic*. Mark Turcotte. *Exploding Chippewas*. Kimberly Blaeser. *Absentee Indians*. *Good Poems*, ed. Garrison Keillor (also already touted hereabouts) ======================================== David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html "We're writing the book on quality: personal, undergraduate education." Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ======================================= From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: May a jurist rule in verse, if he's dignified and terse? Or are some texts meant to be wholly free of poetry? A dissent last month by a justice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, in seven quatrains and one footnote, drew a sharp response from two colleagues. Chief Justice Stephen A. Zappala wrote that "an opinion that expresses itself in rhyme reflects poorly on the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania." Justice Ralph J. Cappy said "every jurist has the right to express him or herself in a manner the jurist deems appropriate," but expressed concern about "the perception that litigants and the public at large might form when an opinion of the court is reduced to rhyme." In an interview, Justice J. Michael Eakin, who wrote the dissent, declined to talk about last month's case. But he was cheerful and expansive on the topic of poetic justice generally. "You have an obligation as a judge to be right," he said, "but you have no obligation to be dull." The case that gave rise to his latest poem turned on whether a lie about an engagement ring should void a prenuptial agreement. Louis Porreco had told his teenage wife-to-be that the ring was worth $21,000, about half of her net worth at the time of the marriage. Mr. Porreco, who was 30 years older than his fianc?e, was worth about $3 million. The agreement entitled Ms. Porreco to a lump sum settlement of $3,500 per year if the marriage failed. After they separated, she discovered that the stone in the engagement ring was fake. The majority ruled that Mr. Porreco's misstatement did not amount to fraud because she should not have trusted her fianc?. Justice Eakin dissented, writing: A groom must expect matrimonial pandemonium When his spouse finds he's given her cubic zirconium. Given their history and Pygmalion relation I find her reliance was with justification. Cases involving prenuptial agreements seem to bring out the poet in Justice Eakin. In 1999, as a judge on the Pennsylvania Superior Court, he rejected a husband's effort to undo one. "A deal is a deal, if fairly undertaken," he wrote, "and we find disclosure was fair and unshaken." He has also ruled in rhyme in cases involving animals and car repair companies. "I would never do it in a serious criminal case," Justice Eakin said. "The subject of the case has to call for a little grin here or there." Other judges have tried their hand at precedential rhyme, not always with happy consequences. In 1975, the Kansas Supreme Court censured a judge who sentenced a prostitute to probation in verse. "On January 30th, 1974," he had written, "this lass agreed to work as a whore." The supreme court objected, it said, not to the poetry but to its content, which had ridiculed the defendant. "Judges ought to be more learned than witty," the justices wrote. Other judges have escaped judicial sanction but may be glad there is no appeal to panels of literary critics. A court of appeals in Michigan, in a case about an encounter between a car and an oak tree: We thought that we would never see A suit to compensate a tree. A bankruptcy judge in Florida: Upon consideration of Section 707(b), loud I cried The court's sua sponte motion to dismiss under Section 707(b) is denied. Stephen Gillers, who teaches legal ethics and law and literature at New York University, said there is a place for judicial verse. "A couplet here or there is fine, and judges should strive to use poetic devices in opinions to make them memorable and readable," Professor Gillers said. "But a judge's opinions often cause pain. Rhyming diminishes the solemnity of the event and its seriousness to the litigants." Justice Eakin said the people affected by his decisions were generally amused rather than insulted. He recalled the response of one lawyer on the losing end of a rhymed decision. "He filed a motion for rehearing in seven limericks," the judge said. "He told me it was easy to rhyme `Eakin' and `mistaken.' " From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: NATION AFRAID TO ADMIT 9 YEAR OLD DISABLED POET REALLY BAD LYNDONVILLE, VT=8BAfflicted from birth with a rare degenerative disease, wheelchair-bound Luke Petrowski has confronted his illness by penning heartfelt verse that touches on elements vital to our lives: love, spirituality, courage, grace, and hope. Above: Luke Petrowski, whose Hopeweavings (left) books have sold more than 22 million copies. His poetry has been collected in the Hopeweavings book series, all of which have been New York Times bestsellers and stand as stirring testaments to th= e power of faith and love. A sought-after talk-show guest and trusted friend of religious leaders and politicians alike, this home-schooled 9-year-old from small-town Vermont possesses a strength of spirit that has moved and inspired millions. Yet for all the admiration Luke has won, an unsettling, unspoken sentiment has slowly spread among the American people. Though most will scarcely dare to admit it, the consensus is that young Luke's poetry is really, really bad. "I saw Luke on Oprah a few months ago and was amazed by his remarkable pois= e and courage," said an Oklahoma homemaker, speaking on condition of anonymity. "But when I read his first Hopeweavings book, I couldn't deny this feeling that his poetry is actually pretty lousy. I feel horribly guilty saying so, but it's true." ---------------------------------------- Full story: http://www.onion.com/onion3846/nation_afraid_to_admit.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: -- The buses bearing their loads away from works,=20 Through the dusk the bicycles coming home from bricks =E2=80=93=20 There evening like a derelict lorry is alone and mute.=20 These houses are deserted, felt over smashed windows, No milk on the step, a note pinned to the door Telling of departure: only shadows=20 Move when in the day the sun is seen for an hour,=20 Yet to me this decaying landscape has its uses: To make me remember, who am always inclined to forget, That there is always a changing at the root, And a real world in which time really passes. For even together, ouside this shattered city And its obvious messag, if we had lived in that peace Where the enormous years pass over lightly=20 -- Yes, even there, if I looked into your face=20 Expecting a word or a laugh on the old conditions,=20 It would not be a friend who met my eye,=20 Only a stranger would smile and turn away,=20 Not one of the two who first performed these actions. For sometimes it is shown to me in dreams The Eden that all wish to recreate Out of their living, from their favourite times;=20 The miraculous play where all their dead take part, Once more articulate; or the distant ones They will never forget because of an autumn talk=20 By a railway, an occasional glimpse in a public park,=20 Any memory for the most part depending on chance. And seeing this through that that I know that to be wrong, Knowing by the flower the root that seemed so harmless Dangerous; and all must take their warning=20 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Their aloof visions of delight, where Desire And Fear work hand-in-glove like medicals To produce the same results. The bells That we used to await will not be rung this year, So it is better to sleep and leave the bottle unopened;=20 Tomorrow in the offices the year on the stamps will be altered;=20 Tomorrow new diaries consulted, new calendars stand;=20 With such small adjustments life will again move forward Implicating us all; and the voice of the living be heard:=20 =E2=80=9CIt is to us that you should turn your straying attention;=20 Us who need you, and are affected by your fortune;=20 Us you should love and to whom you should give your word.=E2=80=9D -- Philip Larkin --City Christmas, The Christmas Robin, and New Year Poem are from CHRISTMAS POEMS, an Everyman=E2=80=99s Library Pocket Poets collection. Sele= cted and edited by John Hollander and J.D. McClatchy. Copyright =C2=A9 1999. No p= art of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. (Do, however, feel free to forward these poems to a friend. We don=E2=80=99t mind a bit!) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Writers issue that will feature poets and writers who have yet to publish a=20 full-length book, nominated by authors who have. (No regular submissions wil= l=20 be considered during this period.) Nominators should submit the candidates= =E2=80=99=20 work directly to Ploughshares. Publication of selections will be in the=20 Winter 2003 issue. Eligibility of Candidates=20 Candidates should be writers of poetry, fiction, or creative nonfiction who=20 have yet to publish a full-length book in any genre in the U.S. or abroad. W= e=20 define a full-length book as being 40 or more pages in length and in an=20 edition of 500 or more copies. Chapbook, limited-edition, or vanity-press=20 publications will not disqualify the candidate; neither will a forthcoming=20 book, as long as it is not released before the issue=E2=80=99s publication o= n=20 December 15, 2003. Writers who have been previously published in Ploughshare= s=20 are also eligible. Citizenship or residency is immaterial. Eligibility of Nominators=20 Nominators should be authors of at least one full-length book of poetry,=20 fiction, or creative nonfiction from a recognized press that has been=20 published by January 1, 2003. Citizenship or residency is immaterial. Deadline=20 Postmarked between January 1 and March 31, 2003. Any submission for this=20 issue mailed before or after those dates will be returned unread. Submission Guidelines=20 =C2=A7 Work should be mailed and submitted by the nominator, not the= =20 candidate. =C2=A7 Nominators should enclose a one- or two-page cover letter wit= h a=20 brief paragraph endorsing the candidate=E2=80=99s work. The letter should al= so=20 include addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and short biographical=20 notes for both the nominator and the candidate (under seventy-five words=20 each), citing publications, awards, education, career highlights, employment= .=20 Nominators should list the titles, publishers, and publication dates of thei= r=20 books. =C2=A7 For poetry: one to three poems, individually typed either sin= gle-=20 or double-spaced on one side of the page. =C2=A7 For prose: one short story, one self-contained novel excerpt,= or=20 one personal essay/memoir (be forewarned that our emphasis will be on short=20 stories), typed double-spaced on one side, no longer than thirty pages. =C2=A7 Submissions must be original work in English. No translations= or=20 co-authors. No previously published material. =C2=A7 One submission per candidate. Additional submissions will be=20 returned unread. =C2=A7 No restrictions or suggestions on style or subject matter. =C2=A7 No e-mail submissions. =C2=A7 Each nominator may submit the work of up to three different=20 candidates. Each submission, however, should be under separate cover. =C2=A7 Mail the cover letter and the manuscript in a page-size manil= a=20 envelope, the nominator=E2=80=99s full name and address written on the outsi= de,=20 addressed to =E2=80=9CEmerging Poetry,=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CEmerging Fiction,= =E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CEmerging=20 Nonfiction,=E2=80=9D Ploughshares, 120 Boylston St., Boston, MA 02116. =C2=A7 S.A.S.E. addressed to candidate.=20 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Louise Gluck has been chosen as the first female judge ever for the Yale Series of Younger Poets. She will choose books from the next competition (deadline Jan. 31) to the year 2008. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: than mine in any meaningful sense. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Esthetique Du Mal" -- Dennis Barone ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C3BA.A3B27470 Content-Type: text/html

These lines from Wallace Stevens made me think of President Bush and the present:

 

    He would not be aware of the lake.

He would be the lunatic of one idea

In a world of ideas, who would have all the people

Live, work, suffer and die in that idea

In a world of ideas.  He would not be aware of the

    clouds,

Lighting the martyrs of logic with white fire.

His extreme of logic would be illogical.

 

From part XIV of

"Esthetique Du Mal"

 

 

-- Dennis Barone

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C3BA.A3B27470-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: simply the teaching of lyric poetry. Teaching is *always* meeting the unteachable. Teaching is a messy, complicated, hard-to-reduce and never-the-same-twice process, whether you're teaching tropes or calculus. Talk to a bunch of mathematicians sometime about the best teaching methods--you'll find they squabble just as entertainingly as poets do. Still, by testimony of a huge number of students, past and present, teaching is indeed possible despite all the messiness of the process (and by the way I'm heartily bored by the poetry-can't-be-taught argument that never seems to be as readily applied to dance, music, and other arts). Which is not to say that plenty of learning doesn't occur outside the classroom, and even some forms of learning that are hard to domesticate within a classroom, facts that no sane teacher would dispute. Thinking of Barry Spacks's technique of not allowing the word "you" in a workshop, a nifty notion that I may try myself, I am struck by how many ways of successful teaching there are. William Stafford resolutely refused to offer criticism *or* praise of individual poems, and avoided saying much as teacher about craft--but developed a delicate side-long, question-heavy method that I could never pull off, myself. Yet students of his clearly responded positively to his unusual ways. ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Finnegan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: that a lot of the anti-war poems posted on Sam Hamill's web site are thin gruel, poetically. No surprise there, but a fair point. But his attack on the "rhetorical overkill" of anti-war poets would be more convincing if he didn't commit the same error in reverse, and paint all such poets and poems with the broad brush of dismissal. He refers to but does not quote John Balaban's poem "Collateral Damage," and seems to think he has scored a good point by stressing that it and other poems posted are not even *about* Iraq (or, as he puts it in his dismissive way, "any old war will do.") Well, read Balaban's poem yourself and see what you think. It's a damn good poem, I think, complex and precise in its language; and does anyone truly believe that the experience of Vietnam isn't utterly relevant to ponder now of all times? Collateral Damage for Miss Tin in Hue "The girl (captured; later, freed) and I (collapsed by a snip of lead) remember well the tea you steeped for us in the garden, as music played and the moon plied the harvest dusk. You read the poem on a Chinese vase that stood outside your father's room, where he dozed in a mandarin dream of King Gia Long's reposing at Ben Ngu. We worry that you all are safe. A house with pillars carved in poems is floored with green rice fields and roofed by all the heavens of this world." . . . Well, that was the poem, written in fullest discovery and iambics by a twenty-four-year old feeling lucky not long after those scary events. Three years later, he (i.e. yours truly) went back with his young American wife (not the girl above "captured . . . freed, etc.") and the night before the '72 Spring Offensive (which, you'll recall, almost took the city) tried to find Miss Tin's house once again . . . in a thunderstorm, both wearing ponchos, and he (a version of "me") clutching a .45 Colt while she, just clutched his wet hand. Of course, anyone might have shot us-the Viet Cong infiltrating the city, the last Marines, the jittery ARVN troops, or, really, any wretch just trying to feed his family. So here's the point: why would anyone (esp. me, or my wife, or versions of same) even dream of going out like that? . . . Simple: A. To show his bride a household built on poems. B. To follow love on all his lunkhead ventures. Anyway, when we found the gated compound, we scared the wits out of the Vietnamese inside reading on the verandah by tiny kerosene lamps or snoozing in hammocks under mosquito netting who took us for assassins, or ghosts, until my wife pulled off her poncho hood, revealing the completely unexpected: a pretty. blonde. White Devil. Since Miss Tin wasn't there, they did the right thing and denied knowing her, as night and river hissed with rain and a lone goose honked forlornly. The next night, we headed out again, the monsoon flooding the darkened city, the offensive booming in nearby hills, and montagnards trekking into Hue in single file as their jungle hamlets fell to the barrage. I kept our jeep running, as my wife dashed out to give away our piasters to the poor bastards half-naked in the driving rain. She gave it all away. Six months, salary, a sack of banknotes watermarked with dragons, (except what we needed to get back to Saigon, but that's another story) . . . the point here being: I often think of Miss Tin's pillared house in Hue and those events now twenty years ago whenever leaders cheer the new world order, or generals regret "collateral damage." -- John Balaban. from *Locusts at the Edge of Summer*. Copper Canyon. ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ > ---------- > From: Paul Lake > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Poets and War > > More on poets and war. > * > > > The Paranoid-Poet Planet > Rhetorical overkill and collateral damage to the language of political > debate. > > By James Bowman > > t's called attention to the fact that poets are against the war in a big > way," says Jay Parini, an antiwar poet himself, referring to the First > Lady's cancellation of a White House-sponsored poetry event scheduled for > this week. There seems a general sense in which antiwar poets seem to > assume > their right to speak for all poets. After all, they don't know of any > other > poets who aren't against the war < or the projected war, we ought to say, > since so far this is history's most advertised and most opposed war that > has > yet to take place. But this is just one measure of the insular quality of > American poetry today. Our poets have grown so accustomed to doing without > any audience to speak of, apart from each other, that they can scarcely > conceive of anything called "poetry" of which they are not the virtual > proprietors. > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Jeff Newberry Reply to the Five Thousand (The organizers of Poets Against the War now claim the signatures of five thousand poets) by Frederick Turner Never till now was I shamed by the name of poet. What could it it even mean, if five thousand "poets" Sign the same misspelled and malicious manifesto? Is not a poet a truth-teller, a seer of inner visions? Why do they make this smell, like the back seat of a taxi? How can they slander the honest officers of the State? What is this rage, this stink of outraged vanity, This resentment that finds at last its lusted-for target, This thick warm glow of the narcissist's solidarity? Why do they always adore the strongman with the mustache (The strongman who takes great care of his personal hygiene And always leaves behind him a sweetness at meetings)? Why do they gnaw and slaver at the hand that feeds them? Why do they hate so this dear dear America That ploddingly over the decades hauls the world into decency? Were they not given at poetry readings all that they wanted-- The jus primae noctis with the prettiest budding poet, The right to be rude to the quivering faculty host, The right to get drunk and spew all over the carpet, The great claim to stand in the footsteps of giants? What is this unslaked vanity, this desire to roll over And over in the stink of of each other's selfrighteousness? What can the young men and women who guard them from harm --Who seek to destroy the poisons designed to kill poets-- What can they think when their danger and grief and devotion And loneliness, losses and pains are counted a crime? And what can I call myself now that "poet" is murdered, That the word cannot mean any more the inner glow Of the vision, the inner voice of the truth that commands me? Who can my friends be, where are my fellow-eccentrics, When all that's called "poet" is just a chewing and chewing On the same miserable piece of cheap cardboard? Where can I go, but with the soldiers to battle, To place my spirit in the bright eye of the bomb, To feel with my wounded belly the pain of the wounded, To stand near my son so my soul will deflect the bullet, To find words for the ancient cities of Uruk Who grope half-blinded into the light of freedom? And so perhaps I must give up the name of poet And leave it to those who have wiped themselves with its paper, And find some name to call myself, now I'm reborn At fifty-nine, having lost the word for my life, Or go nameless at last, where I may serve my people, A spirit who still says Yes to America, Yes To the world of free citizens, Yes to courage, Yes to the hope of a world that is rich and growing, Yes to the fresh wind that blows in the dark of the dawn. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day --0-1192154438-1045170155=:85925 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

From Expansive Poetry and Music Online . . .

 

Jeff Newberry

 

Reply to the Five Thousand
    (The organizers of Poets Against the War now claim
     the signatures of five thousand poets)
                        by Frederick Turner

Never till now was I shamed by the name of poet.
What could it it even mean, if five thousand "poets"
Sign the same misspelled and malicious manifesto?
Is not a poet a truth-teller, a seer of inner visions?
Why do they make this smell, like the back seat of a taxi?

How can they slander the honest officers of the State?
What is this rage, this stink of outraged vanity,
This resentment that finds at last its lusted-for target,
This thick warm glow of the narcissist's solidarity?
Why do they always adore the strongman with the mustache
(The strongman who takes great care of his personal hygiene
And always leaves behind him a sweetness at meetings)?
Why do they gnaw and slaver at the hand that feeds them?
Why do they hate so this dear dear America
That ploddingly over the decades hauls the world into decency?

Were they not given at poetry readings all that they wanted--
The jus primae noctis with the prettiest budding poet,
The right to be rude to the quivering faculty host,
The right to get drunk and spew all over the carpet,
The great claim to stand in the footsteps of giants?
What is this unslaked vanity, this desire to roll over
And over in the stink of of each other's selfrighteousness?
What can the young men and women who guard them from harm
--Who seek to destroy the poisons designed to kill poets--
What can they think when their danger and grief and devotion
And loneliness, losses and pains are counted a crime?

And what can I call myself now that "poet" is murdered,
That the word cannot mean any more the inner glow
Of the vision, the inner voice of the truth that commands me?
Who can my friends be, where are my fellow-eccentrics,
When all that's called "poet" is just a chewing and chewing
On the same miserable piece of cheap cardboard?
Where can I go, but with the soldiers to battle,
To place my spirit in the bright eye of the bomb,
To feel with my wounded belly the pain of the wounded,
To stand near my son so my soul will deflect the bullet,
To find words for the ancient cities of Uruk
Who grope half-blinded into the light of freedom?

And so perhaps I must give up the name of poet
And leave it to those who have wiped themselves with its paper,
And find some name to call myself, now I'm reborn
At fifty-nine, having lost the word for my life,
Or go nameless at last, where I may serve my people,
A spirit who still says Yes to America, Yes
To the world of free citizens, Yes to courage,
Yes to the hope of a world that is rich and growing,
Yes to the fresh wind that blows in the dark of the dawn.


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day --0-1192154438-1045170155=:85925-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: soundfiles, via the web for inclusion in the library to be used during the new multiple Williams [re]Mix[ed] realizations to be played during the installation. Guidelines for contributing sounds 1. Sounds should be contributed as stereo, 44.1K, 16bit, aiff or wave format soundfiles. 2. Sounds should be from 20 to 120 seconds in duration. 3. Each soundfile sent should be labeled by the contributor and placed in the correct folder or directory according to Cage's categories of city (A), country (B), electronic (C), manually produced (D), wind produced (E), and/or small sounds, which need to be ampified (F) and include the author's name or 'tag' and a number signifying how many files you've contributed to the category. The contributor decides which category the sound(s) belong(s) in. 4. Go to: http://engine27.org/williamsmix.html Engine 27's Williams [re]Mix[...stallation] presentation dates: Saturday & Sunday, 2-8pm, March 22, 23, 29, 30 opening reception: Saturday, March 22, 6-8pm, address: 173 Franklin St. (btwn. Hudson & Greenwich) Much more information at http://engine27.org Please forward this announcement to all who might be interested. To be added or removed from Engine 27's email list please go to: http://64.247.23.2/mailman/listinfo/events_engine27.org ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2D37C.5A26C190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable public call for sounds

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = Events-admin at engine27.org [mailto:Events-admin at engine27.org] On Behalf Of Iviva Olenick
Sent: Thursday, February = 13, 2003 2:08 PM
To: = events at engine27.org
Subject: Engine 27 public = call for sounds

 

Public call for contributions = towards

the 50th Anniversary presentation of John Cage's Williams Mix
Larry Austin's Williams [re]Mix[...stallation]
to be presented at Engine 27, NYC in March 2003


Engine 27 and composer Larry Austin invite all composers, musicians and practitioners of electroacoustic and computer music, sonic = art, New Music, New Media, and sound design to participate, via the web, in = the Williams [re]Mix[...stallation]: = a 50th Anniversary Celebration of John Cage's Williams Mix.

Public call for sounds: city; country; electronic; manually produced; = wind produced; small, which need to be amplified. Call ends midnight, March = 16, 2003.

Go to http://engine27.org/williamsmix.html to upload your = sound files, for more information and for a brief history of Williams Mix.

Saturday, March 22, 2003, marks the 50th anniversary of the premiere performance = of John Cage's Williams Mix = (1951-53) for eight monaural magnetic tapes, the first octophonic tape music = composition in the world, created and performed with eight speakers surrounding the = audience. To celebrate this historic piece and its first performance 50 years ago, = Austin will create the Williams [re]Mix[...stallation], a continuously performing octophonic = sound installation to be installed at Engine 27, implemented with Austin's = recently developed Williams [re]Mix[er] (1997-2001), an interactive I Ching composing program. The = program, in operation, creates ever-newer versions and realizations of Cage's = original work, calling on a recorded sound library of hundreds of sounds. The = program's functionality is modeled on the compositional processes used by Cage to = create his Williams Mix, these = processes extrapolated and applied from Austin's analyses of Cage's 192-page = score, his sketches, and the eight monaural, analog tapes for the piece.

Since first starting the project, Austin has continued to collect sounds = for the recorded library of sounds (ranging from 20 to 120 seconds each) = according to Cage's six sound categories of city (A), country (B), electronic (C), manually produced (D), wind produced (E), = and small sounds (F).


From February 14 to March 16, 2003, everyone is invited to = upload soundfiles, via the web for inclusion in the library to be used during = the new multiple Williams [re]Mix[ed] = realizations to be played during the installation.

Guidelines for contributing sounds


1. Sounds should be contributed as stereo, 44.1K, 16bit, aiff or wave = format soundfiles.
2. Sounds should be from 20 to 120 seconds in duration.
3. Each soundfile sent should be labeled by the contributor and placed = in the correct folder or directory according to Cage's categories of city (A), = country (B), electronic (C), manually produced (D), wind produced (E), and/or = small sounds, which need to be ampified (F) and include the author's name or = 'tag' and a number signifying how many files you've contributed to the = category. The contributor decides which category the sound(s) belong(s) in.
4. Go to: http://engine27.org/williamsmix.html


Engine 27's Williams [re]Mix[...stallation] presentation dates: Saturday & Sunday, 2-8pm, March 22, 23, = 29, 30
opening reception: Saturday, March 22, 6-8pm, address: 173 Franklin St. (btwn. Hudson & = Greenwich)
Much more information at http://engine27.org


Please = forward this announcement to all who might be interested.

To be added or = removed from Engine 27's email list please go to: = http://64.247.23.2/mailman/listinfo/events_engine27.org

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2D37C.5A26C190-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Georgy declares it absurd, but Mamma is alarmed and insists he has Taken up strange opinions, and may be turning a Papist. Certainly once he spoke of a daily service he went to. "Where?" we asked, and he laughed and answered, "At the Pantheon." This was a temple, you know, and now is a Catholic Church; and Though it is said that Mazzini has sold it for Protestant service, Yet I suppose this change can hardly as yet be effected. Adieu again,-- evermore, my dearest, your loving Georgina. Okay, go. -m. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Folsome. Copyright ? 1987 by W.S. Merwin. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Sole estate his sire bequeathed -- Hapless sire to hapless son -- Was the wailing song he breathed, And his chain when life was done. << I think you put far too much weight on the grammatical use of "be" in Emerson's poem, eh? Unless you're contending that the "we be" locution widely mocked in contemporary society as an illustration of black American lack of education in standard English was common in Emerson's time, well, there's nothing in Emerson's poem that I can see that has anything to do with the "syncopated rhythms of black American vernacular speech". What his fault, or what his crime? Or what ill planet crossed his prime? Heart too soft and will too weak To front the fate that fetches near, -- Dove beneath the vulture's beak; -- Will song dissuade the thirsty spear? Dragged from his mother's arms and breast, Displaced, disfurnished here, His wistful toil to do his best Chilled by a ribald jeer. Great men in the Senate sate, Sage and hero, side by side, Building for their sons the State Which they shall rule with pride. They forebore to break the chain Which bound the dusky tribe, Checked by the owners' fierce disdain, Lured by "Union" as the bribe. Destiny sat by, and said, "Pang for pang your seed shall pay, Hide in false peace your coward head, I bring round the harvest-day." Nothing there to indicate that Emerson was in any way influenced in his prosody by any black vernacular speech. Even the subject-matter is only "influenced by black Americans" to the extent that Emerson was expressing his outrage at the notion of slavery. There's no indication that the speech of the slaves was anything Emerson sought to incorporate in his verse. mmagee: to say nothing of Whitman. All of the Beats, Frank > O'Hara and everything they have engendered -- inconceivable outside of > black poetic (in the broad sense) innovation. What is that black poetic innovation, exactly, of which you speak? What poems, what rhythms, and how do you trace the influences from the black vernacular to American poetry written by anyone, white or black, male or female? mmagee: > ... don't pretend that somehow this case for the importance of > African-American creative expression needs to be made by one of us on > this list as if it somehow hasn't been made conclusively a thousand > times before. << I've never seen the case made at all, much less conclusively -- though I've heard it asserted a thousand times or more. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: make a right. Come north on Charles for 6 long blocks and turn left (west) on either Mulberry or Franklin. We're on the next block over across from the green-domed church. We'll be in the Poe Room on the second floor. Bring your own lunch! [Directions credit to Rachel Kubie, WOM-PO] Mair?ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Tepid dreams and mostly worthless; lukewarm fancies, the majority of them unprofitable. Yet it is from these that the light, from the ones present here that luminosity Sifts and breaks, subsides and falls asunder. And it will be but half-strange, really be only semi-bizarre When the tall poems of the world, the towering earthbound poetic utterances Invade the street of our dialect, penetrate the avenue of our patois, Bringing fresh power and new knowledge, transporting virgin might and up-to-date enlightenment To this place of honest thirst, to this satisfyingly parched here and now, Since all things congregate, because everything assembles In front of him, before the one Who need only sit and tie his shoelace, who should remain seated, knotting the metal-tipped cord For it to happen right, to enable it to come correctly into being As mements, then years; minutes, afterwards ages Suck up the common strength, absorb the everyday power And afterwards live on, satisfied; persist, later to be a source of gratification, But perhaps only to oneself, haply to one's sole identity. --John Ashbery fr. *April Galleons* [New York: Penguin Books, 1987] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > > Marcus and all, I must admit I've been deleting alot lately, so busy, but I did > > randomly catch the above. What the hell? Is this what the conversation has > > been reduced to, "reduced to!" I love it! --Bob G. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: That caps the boldest of nog-(goes Well with the brown-ease from Alice's Kitchen)-gins To her toe-Klas, No class, no lass, Alas nor food for thought, aye, naught I've ne'er bought into the sort that caught The thorn-point of the tri-essential rose For clothes Foreclose head noise buzz woids Cloy annoy an oy a noi some Palm plum pomme pommel poem-m-mm. Richard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: vibrant and focused crew. Our URL is http://www.contemporarypoetry.com/newhaven/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi If you know anyone who might be interested in workshopping their poetry at Haven or joining the discussions there, please forward this note to them. To post at Haven, you'll have to register with your real name and an ISP based e-mail (no Yahoo, Hotmail or other web-based accounts.) We keep all information strictly confidential and you will have the option to mask your ISP e-mail so that other users will not be able to view it. To register, simply click the "register" link on the main page and follow the prompts. You'll receive an automated e-mail approving your registration within 24 hours. If you have received this message in error, don't be alarmed - there will be no further messages. Hope to see you there, RJ McCaffery Eye-Dialect rj at contemporarypoetry.com http://www.contemporarypoetry.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About Edgar Bowers and his COLLECTED POEMS: randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/bowers/index.html On April 11th, UCLA will honor Bowers at a conference devoted to his work. Explore their online exhibit for audio clips of readings, biographical information, and photographs of the poet: library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/bowers.htm Date: 4/8/03 2:00:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com (The Knopf Poetry Center) To: JforJames at aol.com Edgar Bowers (1924-2000) served in the Counter Intelligence Corps assigned to the 101st Airborne Division in the Second World War. ****************************************** A Fragment: the Cause What I remember is the spell, a mask Of numbness on the face and on the body Attention to a silent foreign call, Rapt murmuring on the lips the one reply; Later, the fall, the cry profane and life-long, Convulsion, and our helplessness -- a pillow Under the head, a blanket, and the waiting; Medicinal hope's spent brevity, the spent Bitterness of catastrophe's relief. I could remember everything, if I would, But do not wish to or to tell the story, Though none will know it when I, too, am dead, The last of those who shared and witnessed it. ****************************************** From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About Edgar Bowers and his COLLECTED POEMS: randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/bowers/index.html On April 11th, UCLA will honor Bowers at a conference devoted to his work. Explore their online exhibit for audio clips of readings, biographical information, and photographs of the poet: library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/bowers.htm From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: " In terms of support for the arts themselves, Mr. Gioia will be trying to focus on quality in all the arts rather than the snobbish negativity pushed by establishment art communities. "I refuse to believe that art is the property of a small elite," he says. Mr. Gioia's longtime friend and fellow poet and critic Frederick Turner, a professor of art and humanities at the University of Texas at Dallas, endorses this ideal. He urges Mr. Gioia to brook "no compromise with the establishment on form, skill, craft, virtuosity and quality. Art must be life-serving rather than life-destroying." Mr. Gioia also would like the NEA to support a national poetry recitation contest in high schools - a risky aim considering the unexpected political antics of the Poets Against the War. Spearheaded by leftist publisher Sam Hamill, that loose alliance of the literary left staged a noisy protest that scuttled first lady Laura Bush's Feb. 12 poetry salon - an event during which Mr. Gioia was to have been sworn in by Vice President Richard B. Cheney as NEA chairman." Frederick Turner writes approvingly, in "The New Classicism and Culture," http://www.townhall.com/phillysoc/Turner.htm about "NewKlassical, the website, directory, and nascent multimedia arts group. . . [that] The driving force of the whole movement is a desire to return to the ideal of beauty. . . At a weekend retreat at the Blue Ridge home of the sculptor Frederick Hart (creator of the Washington Cathedral "Creation" sculptures and the Vietnam Memorial "Three Soldiers" sculpture) some of the founding members of the movement put together a manifesto: Art Recentered A Manifesto We stand for: . . . 2. The reunion of beauty with morality. The function of art is to create beauty. Beauty is incomplete without moral beauty. There should be a renewal of the moral foundations of art as an instrument to civilize, ennoble, and inspire. True beauty is the condition of civilized society. Art recognizes the tragic and terrible costs of human civilization, but does not abandon hope and faith in the civilizing process. Art must recover its connection with religion and ethics without becoming the propagandist of any dogmatic system. Beauty is the opposite of coercive political power. Art should lead but not follow political morality. We should restore reverence for the grace and beauty of human beings and of the rest of nature." When Turner says that "Art must be life-serving rather than life-destroying," I wonder how he feels about Poets Against the War, for example--as opposed to the sorry pack of Poets For the War. I don't doubt that many good things may eventually come from NewKlassical (but why the K?), but its Manifesto seems like an attempt to hide a political agenda in platitudes. Ponick's characterization of Poets Against the War as "political antics" at least has the value of an up-front put-down, however undeserved--especially in the context of the "life-serving rather than life-destroying" rhetoric from Mr. Turner. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kellogg" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gioia at the NEA > I find it sadly unsurprising that the Washington Times does not identify > the author of the article, T.L. Ponick, as a Gioian fellow-traveller and > editor of a middling New Formie rag (Edge City Review -- is that still > around? The title is the best thing about it). > > David > > --On Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:21 PM -0400 Faustina1 at aol.com wrote: > > > I like Dana Gioia, but would have to see the rejected works and their > > replacements to make any kind of judgment on the art issue. Seems like > > we have one of four propositions: > > > > 1. He wants to replace abstract crap with representational art. > > 2. He wants to replace abstract crap with representational crap. > > 3. He wants to replace abstract art with representational crap. > > 4. He wants to replace abstract art with representational art. > > > > I sympathize entirely with #1, and have some sympathy with #4, because > > after all, you like what you like. With #2 or #3 we are in trouble. > > Janet > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --Boundary_(ID_ATpewkckFLHlKhkJm1CEiw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
From Ponick's=20 article:
 
" In terms of = support for the=20 arts themselves, Mr. Gioia will be trying to focus on quality in all the = arts=20 rather than the snobbish negativity pushed by establishment art = communities. "I=20 refuse to believe that art is the property of a small elite," he=20 says.
     Mr. Gioia's longtime friend and = fellow=20 poet and critic Frederick Turner, a professor of art and humanities at = the=20 University of Texas at Dallas, endorses this ideal. He urges Mr. Gioia = to brook=20 "no compromise with the establishment on form, skill, craft, virtuosity = and=20 quality. Art must be life-serving rather than=20 life-destroying."
     Mr. Gioia also would = like the=20 NEA to support a national poetry recitation contest in high schools =97 = a risky=20 aim considering the unexpected political antics of the Poets Against the = War.=20 Spearheaded by leftist publisher Sam Hamill, that loose alliance of the = literary=20 left staged a noisy protest that scuttled first lady Laura Bush's Feb. = 12 poetry=20 salon =97 an event during which Mr. Gioia was to have been sworn in by = Vice=20 President Richard B. Cheney as NEA chairman."
 
Frederick Turner writes = approvingly, in "The New Classicism and = Culture," http://www.townhall= .com/phillysoc/Turner.htm about=20 "NewKlassical, the=20 website, directory, and nascent multimedia arts group. . . [that]=20 The driving = force of=20 the whole movement is a desire to return to the ideal of = beauty. . .=20 At a = weekend=20 retreat at the Blue Ridge home of the sculptor Frederick Hart (creator = of the=20 Washington Cathedral "Creation" sculptures and the Vietnam Memorial = "Three=20 Soldiers" sculpture) some of the founding members of the movement put = together a=20 manifesto: 

Art Recentered=20

A Manifesto  =

We stand for:   . . = .

2.  The reunion of beauty with morality. =

The function of art is to create beauty.=20

Beauty is incomplete without moral beauty.=20

There should be a renewal of the moral foundations of art as an = instrument to civilize, ennoble, and inspire.=20

True beauty is the condition of civilized society.=20

Art recognizes the tragic and terrible costs of human = civilization, but=20 does not abandon hope and faith in the civilizing process.=20

Art must recover its connection with religion and ethics = without becoming=20 the propagandist of any dogmatic system. =

Beauty is the opposite of coercive political = power.=20

Art should lead but not follow political morality. =

We should restore reverence for the grace and beauty of = human=20 beings and of the rest of nature."

When Turner says that "Art must be life-serving rather = than=20 life-destroying," I wonder how he feels about Poets Against the War, for = example--as opposed to the sorry pack of Poets For the War. I don't = doubt that=20 many good things may eventually come from NewKlassical (but why the K?), but its Manifesto seems like an = attempt to=20 hide a political agenda in platitudes. Ponick's characterization of = Poets=20 Against the War as "political antics" at least has the value of an = up-front=20 put-down, however undeserved--especially in the context of the = "life-serving=20 rather than life-destroying" rhetoric from Mr. Turner.=20

Dan


 
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Kellogg" <kellogg at duke.edu>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:34=20 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gioia at the=20 NEA

> I find it sadly unsurprising that the Washington Times = does not=20 identify
> the author of the article, T.L. Ponick, as a Gioian=20 fellow-traveller and
> editor of a middling New Formie rag (Edge = City=20 Review -- is that still
> around?  The title is the best = thing about=20 it).
>
> David
>
> --On Wednesday, April 09, = 2003 9:21=20 PM -0400 Faustina1 at aol.com = wrote:
>=20
> > I like Dana Gioia, but would have to see the rejected = works and=20 their
> > replacements  to make any kind of judgment on = the art=20 issue.  Seems like
> > we have one of four = propositions:
>=20 >
> > 1. He wants to replace abstract crap with = representational=20 art.
> > 2. He wants to replace abstract crap with = representational=20 crap.
> > 3. He wants to replace abstract art with = representational=20 crap.
> > 4. He wants to replace abstract art with = representational=20 art.
> >
> > I sympathize entirely with #1, and have = some=20 sympathy with #4, because
> > after all, you like what you = like. =20 With #2 or #3 we are in trouble.
> > Janet
>
> =
>=20 _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry = mailing=20 list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>=20 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry> --Boundary_(ID_ATpewkckFLHlKhkJm1CEiw)-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About DRIFT: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375414630 Read an essay on contemporary poetry by Mary Kinzie in Ploughshares: pshares.org/issues/article.cfm?prmArticleID=724 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From the sweet glues of the trotters Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From my five arms and all my hands, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth They feed they Lion and he comes. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-630638870-1050429358=:27566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Howdy folks,
 
Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's poetry, and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed They Lion."  To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my students--the poem has always mystified me.  One of my students referred to it as an "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote, "stupid junk that doesn't make sense."  We all noted the similiarity between it and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking."
 
I read through the various critical interpretations of the piece at Cary Nelson's site, but I still didn't come to a definitive read.  My question to you all:  how do you read this piece?  A great number of you on this list are academics--have you ever taught this poem in a sophomore-level lit course?  Thanks for any insights.
 
The text of the poem is below.
 
 They Feed They Lion
Philip Levine
 
    Out of burlap sacks, out of bearing butter,
    Out of black bean and wet slate bread,
    Out of the acids of rage, the candor of tar,
    Out of creosote, gasoline, drive shafts, wooden dollies,
    They Lion grow.

    Out of the gray hills
    Of industrial barns, out of rain, out of bus ride,
    West Virginia to Kiss My Ass, out of buried aunties,
    Mothers hardening like pounded stumps, out of stumps,
    Out of the bones' need to sharpen and the muscles' to stretch,
    They Lion grow.

    Earth is eating trees, fence posts,
    Gutted cars, earth is calling in her little ones,
    "Come home, Come home!" From pig balls,
    From the ferocity of pig driven to holiness,
    From the furred ear and the full jowl come
    The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose
    They Lion grow.

    From the sweet glues of the trotters
    Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower
    Of the hams the thorax of caves,
    From "Bow Down" come "Rise Up,"
    Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels,
    The grained arm that pulls the hands,
    They Lion grow.

    From my five arms and all my hands,
    From all my white sins forgiven, they feed,
    From my car passing under the stars,
    They Lion, from my children inherit,
    From the oak turned to a wall, they Lion,
    From they sack and they belly opened
    And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth
    They feed they Lion and he comes.


Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-630638870-1050429358=:27566-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From the sweet glues of the trotters Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From my five arms and all my hands, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth They feed they Lion and he comes. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose
They Lion grow.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower
Of the hams the thorax of caves,
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels,
The grained arm that pulls the hands,
They Lion grow.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit,
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth
They feed they Lion and he comes.




I've always thought it was a response to the Detroit riots of the sixties. --part1_16c.1d311756.2bcdb271_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth They feed they Lion and he comes. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-707827627-1050440138=:74261 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Could be that I don't know Philip, and that he isn't subscribed to this list--as far as I know. 
 
Jeff Newberry

Deborah Russell <sellwein at hotmail.com> wrote:
I am quite curious, as well as amused. Why do you not address this question
to Phillip? - Deborah



Howdy folks, Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip
Levine's poetry, and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They
Feed They Lion." To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my
students--the poem has always mystified me. One of my students referred to
it as an "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote,
"stupid junk that doesn't make sense." We all noted the similiarity between
it and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking." I read
through the various critical interpretations of the piece at Cary Nelson's
site, but I still didn't come to a definitive read. My question to you all:
how do you read this piece? A great number of you on this list are
academics--have you ever taught this poem in a sophomore-level lit course?
Thanks for any insights. The text of the poem is below. They Feed They
LionPhilip Levine Out of burlap sacks, out of bearing butter,
Out of black bean and wet slate bread,
Out of the acids of rage, the candor of tar,
Out of creosote, gasoline, drive shafts, wooden dollies,
They Lion grow.





Out of the gray hills
Of industrial barns, out of rain, out of bus ride,
West Virginia to Kiss My Ass, out of buried aunties,
Mothers hardening like pounded stumps, out of stumps,
Out of the bones' need to sharpen and the muscles' to stretch,
They Lion grow.






Earth is eating trees, fence posts,
Gutted cars, earth is calling in her little ones,
"Come home, Come home!" From pig balls,
From the ferocity of pig driven to holiness,
From the furred ear and the full jowl come
The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose
They Lion grow.






From the sweet glues of the trotters
Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower
Of the hams the thorax of caves,
From "Bow Down" come "Rise Up,"
Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels,
The grained arm that pulls the hands,
They Lion grow.






From my five arms and all my hands,
From all my white sins forgiven, they feed,
From my car passing under the stars,
They Lion, from my children inherit,
From the oak turned to a wall, they Lion,
From they sack and they belly opened
And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth
They feed they Lion and he comes.




---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.






Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet

Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide
Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-707827627-1050440138=:74261-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Face, from my calories swell, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was deep fried on the drive-in earth, They Feed they Face and it grow. --David Graham. *Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*. Vol. 1, #1. ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ > ---------- > From: Jeff Newberry > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 12:55 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] They Feed They Lion > > Howdy folks, > > Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's poetry, > and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed They Lion." > To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my students--the poem has > always mystified me. One of my students referred to it as an > "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote, "stupid > junk that doesn't make sense." We all noted the similiarity between it > and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking." > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-745337042-1050442381=:86512 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
David,
 
I laughed aloud when I read this.  For all the kicking around that old Levine gets, he often deserves it.  This is everything a parody should be--very nice.  I may even read it to my class.
 
Side note--are there any poems that you have difficulty teaching but still do (teach them) because you like them, despite what others may say?
 
Jeff Newberry

"Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu> wrote:
You can listen to Levine talk a little about this poem at the following site
(requires RealPlayer):

http://www.ibiblio.org/ipa/levine/sound/lion-comm.ram

Levine identifies the structural inspiration for the poem not in Whitman but
Smart. His comments won't help explicate the poem's details, but he does
give some context.

Here's my explication, in the form of yet another parody--

They Feed They Face

--for Philip Levine


Out of shopping cart, out of brownbagged bottle,
Out of Food Mart and Save-Way,
Out of deli passion, three martini lunch,
Out of cellophane, boxtop, tin can, pantry shelf,
They Face grow.

Out of the split seams
Of golfing trowsers, out of bulge, out of burp,
"Bring it up sideways, it might be a piano," out of
pack-it-in,
Belly settling like mulch, out of mulch,
Out of the mouth's need to eat and the intestine's fuck-you,
They Face grow.

From my belt loops and all my chins,
From all my roughage daily, they feed,
From my nose-bag of the soul,
They Face, from my calories swell,
From the chili bean turned to music, they Face,
From they Big Mac and Whopper Burger revealed
And all that was deep fried on the drive-in earth,
They Feed they Face and it grow.

--David Graham. *Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*. Vol. 1,
#1.


============================================
David Graham
Professor of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
My Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
============================================


> ----------
> From: Jeff Newberry
> Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 12:55 PM
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [New-Poetry] They Feed They Lion
>
> Howdy folks,
>
> Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's poetry,
> and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed They Lion."
> To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my students--the poem has
> always mystified me. One of my students referred to it as an
> "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote, "stupid
> junk that doesn't make sense." We all noted the similiarity between it
> and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking."
>
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-745337042-1050442381=:86512-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit,=20 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth=20 They feed they Lion and he comes.=20 And they feed from the man (who could be the one who -comes- in the last = line) from his hands and arms from the oak turned to a wall --- sack, belly opened An enormous monster in the corality of destruction since the act of = feeding needs the sacrifice of the one . Howdy folks, Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's = poetry, and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed = They Lion." To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my = students--the poem has always mystified me. One of my students referred = to it as an "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I = quote, "stupid junk that doesn't make sense." We all noted the = similiarity between it and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle = Endlessly Rocking." I read through the various critical interpretations of the piece at = Cary Nelson's site, but I still didn't come to a definitive read. My = question to you all: how do you read this piece? A great number of you = on this list are academics--have you ever taught this poem in a = sophomore-level lit course? Thanks for any insights. The text of the poem is below. They Feed They Lion Philip Levine Out of burlap sacks, out of bearing butter, Out of black bean and wet slate bread, Out of the acids of rage, the candor of tar, Out of creosote, gasoline, drive shafts, wooden dollies, They Lion grow.=20 Out of the gray hills Of industrial barns, out of rain, out of bus ride,=20 West Virginia to Kiss My Ass, out of buried aunties, Mothers hardening like pounded stumps, out of stumps, Out of the bones' need to sharpen and the muscles' to stretch, They Lion grow. Earth is eating trees, fence posts, Gutted cars, earth is calling in her little ones,=20 "Come home, Come home!" From pig balls, From the ferocity of pig driven to holiness, From the furred ear and the full jowl come The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From the sweet glues of the trotters Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From "Bow Down" come "Rise Up," Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels,=20 The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From my five arms and all my hands, From all my white sins forgiven, they feed,=20 From my car passing under the stars, They Lion, from my children inherit,=20 From the oak turned to a wall, they Lion, From they sack and they belly opened And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth=20 They feed they Lion and he comes.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C303AB.86703F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I find it an intersting = poem.
In my way of = understanding this poem,=20 "They" Feed "themselves (or their kids) into Lions".
They becomes the Earth = eating=20 itself.
They is us, the ones = who are able to=20 survive.
They is them - those = who are outside,=20 and bother us.
An enormous machine = devouring itself.=20
There is sadness in his = voice, a=20 moment of reflection,
From my five arms and all my hands,
From all my white sins = forgiven,=20 they feed,
From my car passing under the stars,
They Lion, from = my=20 children inherit,
From the oak turned to a wall, they Lion,
From = they=20 sack and they belly opened
And all that was hidden burning on the = oil-stained=20 earth
They feed they Lion and he comes.
And they feed from the = man (who could=20 be the one who -comes- in the last line)
from his hands and = arms
from the oak turned to = a wall=20 ---
sack, belly = opened
An enormous monster in = the corality=20 of destruction since the act of feeding needs the sacrifice of the=20 one .
Howdy folks,
 
Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's = poetry,=20 and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed They=20 Lion."  To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my = students--the=20 poem has always mystified me.  One of my students referred to it = as an=20 "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote, = "stupid junk=20 that doesn't make sense."  We all noted the similiarity between = it and=20 the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking."
 
I read through the various critical interpretations of the piece = at Cary=20 Nelson's site, but I still didn't come to a definitive read.  My = question=20 to you all:  how do you read this piece?  A great = number of you=20 on this list are academics--have you ever taught this poem in=20 a sophomore-level lit course?  Thanks for any=20 insights.
 
The text of the poem is below.
 
 They Feed They Lion
Philip Levine
 
    Out of burlap sacks, out of bearing butter,
    Out of black bean = and wet=20 slate bread,
    Out of the acids of rage, the candor of tar,
    Out = of=20 creosote, gasoline, drive shafts, wooden dollies,
    They Lion grow. =

    Out of the gray hills
    Of industrial barns, out of rain, out = of bus=20 ride,
    West Virginia to Kiss My Ass, out of buried = aunties,
    Mothers=20 hardening like pounded stumps, out of stumps,
    Out of the bones' = need to=20 sharpen and the muscles' to stretch,
    They Lion grow.

    Earth is eating trees, fence posts,
    Gutted cars, earth is = calling in=20 her little ones,
    "Come home, Come home!" From pig balls,
    From = the=20 ferocity of pig driven to holiness,
    From the furred ear and the = full jowl=20 come
    The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose
    They Lion=20 grow.

    From the sweet glues of the trotters
    Come the sweet kinks of = the=20 fist, from the full flower
    Of the hams the thorax of = caves,
    From "Bow=20 Down" come "Rise Up,"
    Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, =
    The=20 grained arm that pulls the hands,
    They Lion grow.

    From my five arms and all my hands,
    From all my white sins = forgiven,=20 they feed,
    From my car passing under the stars,
    They Lion, = from my=20 children inherit,
    From the oak turned to a wall, they = Lion,
    From they=20 sack and they belly opened
    And all that was hidden burning on the = oil-stained earth
    They feed they Lion and he comes. =


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T= he New=20 Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C303AB.86703F60-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose They Lion grow. From the sweet glues of the trotters Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower Of the hams the thorax of caves, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels, The grained arm that pulls the hands, They Lion grow. From my five arms and all my hands, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They Lion, from my children inherit, From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth They feed they Lion and he comes. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-1335248464-1050445065=:32305 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Okay Bob--a fairly straight-forward white conscience poem?  Based on your read that "They lion" is lower-class black dialect?
 
Forgive me, but this seems overly simplistic for what I believe is a complex piece of writing. 
 
Maybe I'm just not as attuned to the work as you are.  Forgive me.
 
Jeff Newberry

Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
I've only skimmed this poem, but is it not a fairly straight-forward white conscience poem?  "They lion" is lower-class black for "their lion." 
 
--Bob G.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 1:55 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] They Feed They Lion

Howdy folks,
 
Today in my Am Lit course, we were talking about Philip Levine's poetry, and got way off in left field in our discussion of "They Feed They Lion."  To be quite honest with you all--as I was with my students--the poem has always mystified me.  One of my students referred to it as an "incantation" while others turned up their noses at, and I quote, "stupid junk that doesn't make sense."  We all noted the similiarity between it and the Whitman piece "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking."
 
I read through the various critical interpretations of the piece at Cary Nelson's site, but I still didn't come to a definitive read.  My question to you all:  how do you read this piece?  A great number of you on this list are academics--have you ever taught this poem in a sophomore-level lit course?  Thanks for any insights.
 
The text of the poem is below.
 
 They Feed They Lion
Philip Levine
 
    Out of burlap sacks, out of bearing butter,
    Out of black bean and wet slate bread,
    Out of the acids of rage, the candor of tar,
    Out of creosote, gasoline, drive shafts, wooden dollies,
    They Lion grow.

    Out of the gray hills
    Of industrial barns, out of rain, out of bus ride,
    West Virginia to Kiss My Ass, out of buried aunties,
    Mothers hardening like pounded stumps, out of stumps,
    Out of the bones' need to sharpen and the muscles' to stretch,
    They Lion grow.

    Earth is eating trees, fence posts,
    Gutted cars, earth is calling in her little ones,
    "Come home, Come home!" From pig balls,
    From the ferocity of pig driven to holiness,
    From the furred ear and the full jowl come
    The repose of the hung belly, from the purpose
    They Lion grow.

    From the sweet glues of the trotters
    Come the sweet kinks of the fist, from the full flower
    Of the hams the thorax of caves,
    From "Bow Down" come "Rise Up,"
    Come they Lion from the reeds of shovels,
    The grained arm that pulls the hands,
    They Lion grow.

    From my five arms and all my hands,
    From all my white sins forgiven, they feed,
    From my car passing under the stars,
    They Lion, from my children inherit,
    From the oak turned to a wall, they Lion,
    From they sack and they belly opened
    And all that was hidden burning on the oil-stained earth
    They feed they Lion and he comes.


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Yahoo! News - Today's headlines --0-1335248464-1050445065=:32305-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I guess I'll have to save it just in case he won't confess His lust is marching on. Chorus: Glory, glory, Willie's wanker Affidavit but don't thank her! Sex ain't sex if you out-rank her His lust is marching on. I have seen him work the rope-lines 'mid his circling aides-de-camp While he smiles as women whisper how he makes their panties damp; He always seems to hug and kiss the one dressed like a tramp. His lust is marching on. Chorus: In the beauty of the Oval Office, lounging at his ease, With the glory of the Presidential Penis in the breeze He welcomes yet another White House intern on her knees His lust is marching on. Chorus: He is phoning party leaders in their offices and cars He is phoning kings and ministers in markets and bazaars But the only thing they want talk about is moist cigars His lust is marching on. Chorus: He has had his trumpet sounded by their mouths and breasts and feet He is sifting out the Sutra for some other means as sweet O, be swift in deposition if you cannot be discreet! His lust is marching on. Chorus: Elemenope: > At this point all you have is an accusation. Where is your > evidence? How closely have you examined > the federal contracts and their history in this matter? Have you > examined the Federal Recording Offices files regarding Halliburton? > It doesn't seem that you have; it seems that you have concocted the > possibility of an interlinking between Cheney, Halliburton and this > contract -- but you have no evidence. For you, an accusation backed > up by cynical and hateful emotion against innocent people whose party > you despise is enough to prove to yourself that your accusation is an > apriori fact.<< This sounds like a sort of mean-spirited transference, to me. I don't hate Republicans nor the Republican Party. I often disagree with their policies, but not always. As for my cynicism, well, I'm going to have to cop to that. I am indeed a cynic about people in power. As Lincoln (a Republican if you remember) used to say "Almost any man can stand adversity; to really test him give him power." My experience in national government and my observation of it since those long-gone days both argue persuasively to me that men in power are all too able to imagine that their own, or their own faction's or party's, or their own peer group's, social group's, or cultural group's, or former or future employer's short term self interests are the interests of the country. But I think that's a problem irrespective of party, faction, peer, social, or cultural group, or employer future or former. I don't hold that Republicans are more corrupt than Democrats or vice versa. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: They resemble their father and are different, too And all of them speak the language of Apollinaire --Blaise Cendrars, tr. Anselm Hollo fr. *Au coeur du monde* (1947) in *The Random House Book of Twentieth-Century French Poetry* ed., Paul Auster [New York: Random House,1982] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: You Can Have It =20 My brother comes home from work and climbs the stairs to our room. I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop one by one. You can have it, he says. The moonlight streams in the window and his unshaven face is whitened like the face of the moon. He will sleep long after noon and waken to find me gone. Thirty years will pass before I remember that moment when suddenly I knew each man has one brother who dies when he sleeps and sleeps when he rises to face this life, and that together they are only one man sharing a heart that always labours, hands yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it? All night at the ice plant he had fed the chute its silvery blocks, and then I stacked cases of orange soda for the children of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time with always two more waiting. We were twenty for such a short time and always in the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt and sweat. I think now we were never twenty. In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died, no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace, for there was no such year, and now that year has fallen off all the old newspapers, calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds wedding certificates, drivers licenses. The city slept. The snow turned to ice. The ice to standing pools or rivers racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose between the thousands of cracked squares, and that grass died. I give you back 1948. I give you all the years from then to the coming one. Give me back the moon with its frail light falling across a face. Give me back my young brother, hard and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse for God and burning eyes that look upon all creation and say, You can have it. Philip Levine --------------------------------------- And the title poem of *The Mercy* from 1999-- The Mercy The ship that took my mother to Ellis Island eighty-three years ago was named "The Mercy." She remembers trying to eat a banana without first peeling it and seeing her first orange in the hand of a young Scot, a seaman who gave her a bite and wiped her mouth for her with a red bandana and taught her the word, "orange," saying it patiently over and over. A long autumn voyage, the days darkening with the black waters calming as night came on, then nothing as far as her eyes could see and space without limit rushing off to the corners of creation. She prayed in Russian and Yiddish to find her family in New York, prayers unheard or perhaps misunderstood or perhaps ignored by all the powers that swept the waves of darkness before she woke, that kept "The Mercy" afloat while smallpox raged among the passengers and crew until the dead were buried at sea with strange prayers in a tongue she could not fathom. "The Mercy," I read on the yellowing pages of a book I located in a windowless room of the library on 42nd Street, sat thirty-one days offshore in quarantine before the passengers disembarked. There a story ends. Other ships arrived, "Tancred" out of Glasgow, "The Neptune" registered as Danish, "Umberto IV," the list goes on for pages, November gives way to winter, the sea pounds this alien shore. Italian miners from Piemonte dig under towns in Western Pennsylvania only to rediscover the same nightmare they left at home. A nine-year-old girl travels all night by train with one suitcase and an orange. She learns that mercy is something you can eat again and again while the juice spills over your chin, you can wipe it away with the back of your hands and you can never get enough. --Philip Levine =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D What=B9s interesting about this argument? Narrative, per se, doesn=B9t hurt or help verse, in my opinion. It=B9s simply a tool, a technique. Levine=B9s poetry makes me powerful bored because it=B9s so prosey (w/the exception of one poem=8B=B3They Feed They Lion=B2), so same-seeming, so, well, boring. I=B9ve tried= , tried, tried, to read him, but I just can=B9t make it very far. That said, nobody has ever been able to tell me what=B9s so great about his poetry=8Bwhat does he do that someone else hasn=B9t done better? That said, I must admit that I think he=B9s a very chaming personage in interviews and prose=8A =20 --MS_Mac_OE_3133454994_152924_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Levine's style I'm quite fond of a lot of Philip Levine's poetry, including recent work, b= ut I think it's worth noting that his style has changed greatly down the yea= rs.  Not only did he begin as a Wintersian metrical poet, but he's been= through a number of phases since then.  Yes, his last few books have b= een growing ever more loose and prosey in style, as well as even more narrat= ive, but when I look back on books like *1933* or *The Names of the Lost*, h= is handling of rhythm and line seems considerably different.   &nb= sp;

Some examples.  Here's an old one, from *They Feed They Lion* in 1972-= -

Salami

Stomach of goat, crushed
sheep balls, soft full
pearls of pig eyes,
snout gristle, fresh earth,
worn iron of trotter, slate
of Zaragoza, dried cat heart,
cock claws.  She grinds
them with one hand and
with the other fists
mountain thyme, basil,
paprika, and knobs of garlic.
And if a tooth of stink thistle
pulls blood from the round
blue marbled hand
all the better for
this ruby of Pamplona,
this bright jewel of Vich,
this stained crown
of Solsona, this
salami.
       The daughter
of mismatched eyes,
36 year old infant smelling
of milk.  Mama, she cries, mama,
but mama is gone,
and the old stone cutter
must wipe the drool
from her jumper.  His puffed fingers
unbutton and point her
to toilet.  Ten, twelve hours
a day, as long as the winter sun
hold up he rebuilds
the unvisited church
of San Martin.  Cheep cheep
of the hammer high above
the town, sparrow cries
lost in the wind or lost
in the mind.  At dusk he leans
to the coal dull wooden Virgin
and asks for blessings on
the slow one and peace
on his grizzled head, asks
finally and each night
for the forbidden, for
the knowledge of every
mysterious stone, and
the words go out on
the overwhelming incense
of salami.
       A single crow
passed high over the house,
I wakened out of nightmare.
The winds had changed,
the Tremontana was tearing
out of the Holy Mountains
to meet the sea winds
in my yard, burning and
scaring the young pines.
The single poplar wailed
in terror.  With salt,
with guilt, with the need
to die, the vestments
of my life flared, I
was on fire, a stranger
staggering through my house
butting walls and falling
over furniture, looking
for a way out.  In the last room
where moonlight slanted
through a broken shutter
I found my smallest son
asleep or dead, floating
on a bed of colorless light.
When I leaned closer
I could smell the small breaths
going and coming, and each
bore its prayer for me,
the true and earthy prayer
of salami.
--Philip Levine
----------------------------------

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:

You Can Have It
My brother comes home from work
and climbs the stairs to our room.
I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop
one by one. You can have it, he says.

The moonlight streams in the window
and his unshaven face is whitened
like the face of the moon. He will sleep
long after noon and waken to find me gone.

Thirty years will pass before I remember
that moment when suddenly I knew each man
has one brother who dies when he sleeps
and sleeps when he rises to face this life,

and that together they are only one man
sharing a heart that always labours, hands
yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps
for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it?

All night at the ice plant he had fed
the chute its silvery blocks, and then I
stacked cases of orange soda for the children
of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time

with always two more waiting. We were twenty
for such a short time and always in
the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt
and sweat. I think now we were never twenty.

In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded
by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes
of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died,
no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace,

for there was no such year, and now
that year has fallen off all the old newspapers,
calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds
wedding certificates, drivers licenses.

The city slept. The snow turned to ice.
The ice to standing pools or rivers
racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose
between the thousands of cracked squares,

and that grass died. I give you back 1948.
I give you all the years from then
to the coming one. Give me back the moon
with its frail light falling across a face.

Give me back my young brother, hard
and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse
for God and burning eyes that look upon
all creation and say, You can have it.

Philip Levine
---------------------------------------

And the title poem of *The Mercy* from  1999--


The Mercy

The ship that took my mother to Ellis Island
eighty-three years ago was named "The Mercy."
She remembers trying to eat a banana
without first peeling it and seeing her first orange
in the hand of a young Scot, a seaman
who gave her a bite and wiped her mouth for her
with a red bandana and taught her the word,
"orange," saying it patiently over and over.
A long autumn voyage, the days darkening
with the black waters calming as night came on,
then nothing as far as her eyes could see and space
without limit rushing off to the corners
of creation.  She prayed in Russian and Yiddish
to find her family in New York, prayers
unheard or perhaps misunderstood or perhaps ignored
by all the powers that swept the waves of darkness
before she woke, that kept "The Mercy" afloat
while smallpox raged among the passengers
and crew until the dead were buried at sea
with strange prayers in a tongue she could not fathom.
"The Mercy," I read on the yellowing pages of a book
I located in a windowless room of the library
on 42nd Street, sat thirty-one days
offshore in quarantine before the passengers
disembarked. There a story ends. Other ships
arrived, "Tancred" out of Glasgow, "The Neptune"
registered as Danish, "Umberto IV,"
the list goes on for pages, November gives
way to winter, the sea pounds this alien shore.
Italian miners from Piemonte dig
under towns in Western Pennsylvania
only to rediscover the same nightmare
they left at home. A nine-year-old girl travels
all night by train with one suitcase and an orange.
She learns that mercy is something you can eat
again and again while the juice spills over
your chin, you can wipe it away with the back
of your hands and you can never get enough.

--Philip Levine




=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

What=B9s interesting about this argument? &= nbsp;Narrative, per se, doesn=B9t hurt or help verse, in my opinion. It=B9s simp= ly a tool, a technique. Levine=B9s poetry makes me powerful bored because it=B9s= so prosey (w/the exception of one poem=8B=B3They Feed They Lion=B2), so same-seem= ing, so, well, boring.  I=B9ve tried, tried, tried, to read him, but I ju= st can=B9t make it very far.  That said, nobody has ever been able to tel= l me what=B9s so great about his poetry=8Bwhat does he do that someone else hasn= =B9t done better?  That said, I must admit that I think he=B9s a very chami= ng personage in interviews and prose=8A


--MS_Mac_OE_3133454994_152924_MIME_Part-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "By 1965, I was 30 and that seemed to me to be about time to get out of the little magazine business. If you stay in it too long funny things begin to happen. Have you run into old runners of little mags? Gentlemen of 65 with white mustaches who have been running "Revolt" in their cellar for 35 years?" Dennis Barone ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3082A.18908940 Content-Type: text/html

A Response of Sorts to the Demise of Partisan Review

 

From an interview with Robert Kelly, Credences, Vol. 3, No. 3, 1985

 

"By 1965, I was 30 and that seemed to me to be about time to get out of the little magazine business.  If you stay in it too long funny things begin to happen.  Have you run into old runners of little mags?  Gentlemen of 65 with white mustaches who have been running "Revolt" in their cellar for 35 years?"

 

Dennis Barone

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3082A.18908940-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Provides week, the number of such well greens And then I scorn to change by state with a. --part1_197.19504626.2bdab696_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Bard of ViaVoice

If you are like most people, you want to start using ViaVoice right away= .  But before you do, there are a few important things you should under= stand.  Investing a few minutes of your time now will make your use of=20= ViaVoice much more productive and enjoyable. Some errors occur when ViaVoice= does not interpret your speech correctly.

-- IBM Voice-Recognition Software Message

Shell like comparing the to a summer's day?
For more locally and more temperate
Rain rough winds to shake the normally would some day
Care and summers least double to short of the park.
Some time to the idea of heaven shines
Off in this is cooled complexion deep
Or in every fair from where some time
It's a chance to majors chained to a chorus by a turn in
Summer people not plead
Or lose the session where the homeless.
Marshall death threat of wonders and cheap
When the neutral lines to time rule was
So long as we can move its currency
Stolen was this disputes like to be.

Win in disgrace with fortune and enzymes
Happen all alone knew we can stay
And troubles death of a man with my food crises
And look upon myself and for small way
You'll wishing my soul to one more mission hold
Featured like film like filled with friends possess
Desiring this man's heart and the act as though
With one eye moves and jewelry county police
Then and the spots of myself almost to spies in
Happily for a comb the been my state
Like it will mark a break the day rise in
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Provides week, the number of such well greens
And then I scorn to change by state with a.      &n= bsp;            =     
=0C --part1_197.19504626.2bdab696_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: children's books. I believe She Was Nice to Mice was about Queen Victoria (in a round-about way). Cheers, Mill --part1_aa.1c06135c.2bdd757b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Before I read the latest posting, I was about to say the same damn thing, we= ll not the part about my skin crawling or taking my own life (I laughed alou= d over that one), but about Ally Sheedy's kid book: She Was Nice to Mice.&nb= sp;

I am so old that I can actually remember seeing her on the Carson show (I th= ink with her mother), promoting the book at age 12. . . And I am so green th= at I am the same age as Ally. . .Way back then, she seemed awfully bright an= d intelligent. And I thought, gosh.  She's already got a book out. What= have I completed?  Sixth grade.

That was pre-St Elmo's Fire .  If I'm not mistaken, her acting career a= bout later--as a result of her young celebrity-author-hood.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: hildren's books.  I believe She Was Nice to Mice was about Queen= Victoria (in a round-about way).

Cheers,

Mill --part1_aa.1c06135c.2bdd757b_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About SPRINGING: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375413898 Read Marie Ponsot's answers to questions from her readers: randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/ponsot/poetsonpoetry.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About SPRINGING: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375413898 Read Marie Ponsot's answers to questions from her readers: randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/ponsot/poetsonpoetry.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: slant rhyme--Two words that sound alike but don't really rhyme. Dickinson does this in her poems. I think she once used the words "Pearl" and "Harbor" as if they rhymed. --part1_19f.14968e28.2beab807_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From a sophomore American lit final:

slant rhyme--Two words that sound alike but don't really rhyme.  Dickin= son does this in her poems.  I think she once used the words "Pearl" an= d "Harbor" as if they rhymed. --part1_19f.14968e28.2beab807_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "... assonance is getting the rhyme wrong." Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Of all the things that happened there That's all that I remember. --Countee Cullen ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "For a long time now, Peter Cooley has been one of the most authentically visionary poets of his generation. You have to go back to Hopkins, Vaughn and Herbert to find something of his haunted spiritual ardor and lyric compression..." (David Wojahn) ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I know I'm getting questions all the time. It's not as academic a position, The college writing program and the core. There is the dean search, which is underway A lot of applications were dismissed This selection didn't represent -- I don't know anything about the search -- Is uppermost in everybody's mind -- And in the end, of course, it's Artine's choice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lott" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes > spake thusly: > > > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. > > I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 > miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. > > c (no savant, but occasionally an idiot) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: He was dressed just like a banker But he looked so sad and tired He said I haven't long to live And I've just this last desire Bury me next to Marilyn Marilyn Monroe She's been lonely far too long And I know she needs her Joe Cancel the rosebuds for her grave We'll make flowers grow Bury me next to Marilyn Marilyn Monroe He said, "I hit in 56 straight games And I made the Hall of Fame But since I struck out with Marilyn Things were never quite the same Now I spend my days drinking Mr. Coffee And I spend my nights alone Please bury with my Marilyn One last time I'll jump her bones." Bury me next to Marilyn Marilyn Monroe She's been lonely far too long And I know she needs her Joe Cancel the rosebuds for her grave We'll make flowers grow Bury me next to Marilyn Marilyn Monroe Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Bales" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Catch George Bilgere http://www.georgebilgere.com/inside/poems/catch.html My father came home with a new glove, all tight stitches and unscuffed gold, its deep pocket exhaling baseball, signed by Mays or Mantle or "The Man," or some lesser god I've since forgotten. He took off his tie and dark jacket and we went outside to break it in, throwing the ball back and forth in the dusk, the big man sweating already, grunting as he tried to fire it at his son, who saw now, for the first time, that his father, who loved to talk baseball at dinner and let him stay up late to watch the fights unfold like grainy nightmares on Gillette's Cavalcade of Sports, the massive father who could lift him high in the air with one hand, threw like a girl-far and away the worst he could say of anyone- his off-kilter wind-up and release like a raw confession, so naked and helpless in the failing light that thirty years later, still feeling the ball's soft kiss in my glove, I'm afraid to throw it back. --George Bilgere On 12 Jun 2003 at 14:13, Paul Lake wrote: > Always did like these memorable lines by Hall. Also, just reread in Gwynn's > Pocket poetry anthology B. H. Fairchild's baseball poem "Body and Soul" with > it's fine spine-tingling conclusion. > > Paul Lake > > > > on 6/12/03 2:15 PM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote: > > > Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear Ideas* > > which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt > > Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later in > > the book. > > > > Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. > > > > Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- > > > > Old Timers' Day > > > > When the tall puffy > > figure wearing number > > nine starts > > late for the fly ball, > > laboring forward > > like a lame truckhorse > > startled by a gartersnake, > > -- this old fellow > > whose body we remember > > as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- > > > > and barely catches it > > in his glove's > > tip, we rise > > and applaud weeping: > > On a green field > > we observe the ruin > > of even the bravest > > body, as Odysseus > > wept to glimpse > > among shades the shadow > > of Achilles. > > > > --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About VISITS FROM THE SEVENTH: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375709789 Read a Q&A with Sarah Arvio: randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/arvio/qna.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Cultural Poetics Eileen Tabios? one-woman renaissance Bob Perelman?s ?Writing Time with Quotes? Van Gogh?s Ear & Allen Ginsberg?s ?Lines for Creeley?s Ear? Reading John Wieners? ?Loss? & reading Ben Friedlander?s chapbook Loss ? When is a book a blog? What does the school of quietude mean when it says ?more traditional?? Tracing traditions: post-avant poetries & the school of quietude Ange Mlinko: the school of quietude disappearing poets Chris Lott: being beset as a relic of tradition Michael Cross? in felt treeling Blogging with scholars A note on Salam Pax Google & Big Brother Other ways to gather poetry news Francis Ponge?s Notebook in the Pine Woods *** Line Reading Rae Armantrout Jean Donnelly Ron Silliman Tuesday, June 24 6:30 PM The Drawing Room 35 Wooster Street* New York City Admission $5 / members free *across the street from the main gallery *** http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Over 40,000 visitors since September 2002 Blog of the Day award (12/6/02) Technorati?s Top 50 Interesting Recent Blogs ?Un verdadero lujo para los amantes de la literatura contempor?nea,? -- El Mercurio (Santiago, Chile, 8 June 2003) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The Justice Department doesn't seem to know when to stop BRETT BURSEY will be back in court again, fighting the forces of reaction, on June 24th. The veteran protester was arrested last October for trespassing at the Columbia Metropolitan Airport as he held a sign (???No War for Oil???) while waiting for George Bush to arrive. This was not a new experience for him. Thirty-three years earlier, at almost the same spot, Mr Bursey was tossed in the paddy wagon for holding a sign that criticised another war (Vietnam) while waiting for another Republican president (Richard Nixon) to show up. The 1969 case against Mr Bursey was dropped when the South Carolina Supreme Court ruled that anti-war demonstrators could not be charged with trespassing if they were on public property. Shortly after his most recent arrest, the trespassing charge against Mr Bursey was also dropped. But in March the local US attorney, Strom Thurmond junior, suddenly brought federal charges against Mr Bursey under a little-known law that allows the Secret Service to restrict access to areas the president is visiting. Mr Bursey's trial will take place in the new courthouse in Columbia, named after the now 100-year-old Strom Thurmond senior (who, as it happens, helped his son get his current job). If convicted, Mr Bursey, who is 54, faces six months in jail and a $5,000 fine. Yet a growing number of liberal sorts seem to think that the real issue is the intolerance of John Ashcroft's Justice Department ???and, in particular, its intention to start using the rare Secret Service law to get rid of protesters. Last month, 11 members of Congress, including one Republican and several members of the House Judiciary and Homeland Security committees, sent a letter to Mr Ashcroft urging him to drop charges against Mr Bursey. They insisted that ??? no plausible argument can be made that Mr Bursey was threatening the president by holding a sign which the president found politically offensive.??? Indeed, it is extremely hard to see why Mr Thurmond has picked on Mr Bursey out of all the people in the Secret Service zone. None of the other protesters with him was arrested. Neither were any of the several hundred supporters of the president who were holding equally dangerous (but pro-Bush) signs as they stood near the hangar where the president was to speak. The prosecutors say that Mr Bursey was not in a special ???free- speech zone??? that was set up for protesters half a mile from the hangar. The pro-Bush people did not need to be there because they were not protesting. Mr Bursey told the cops, defiantly, that he was under the impression that the whole of America was a free-speech zone. Bill Nettles, Mr Bursey's lawyer, claims that the case is being driven not by the young Mr Thurmond but by higher-ups in Washington, who want a new way to stifle dissent. ???This is the type of small-brained decision that could only have been made by bureaucrats inside the Beltway,??? says the lanky Mr Nettles. Mr Thurmond's office declines to discuss the case. A spokesman says the office is aware of the letter from the 11 congressmen, but ???unless we get a directive from Attorney-General Ashcroft's office [telling us to drop or settle the case], we shall proceed.??? Mr Bursey's supporters note that Mr Ashcroft's men have decided to test their anti-protester law in a conservative stronghold, where the armed forces tend to be viewed more generously than elderly hippies and where the case will be heard by a judge without a jury. It is easy to see how Mr Ashcroft might not warm to Mr Bursey, who heads a ???progressive network??? of liberal organisations, used to edit an alternative newspaper, and has organised protests against, among other things, American war policy, nuclear power, racism and the Confederate flag. In his various causes, both noble and foolish, Mr Bursey has been arrested dozens of times. Three decades ago he spent nearly two years in prison for spraying anti-war slogans on government property during the Vietnam war. Whether he deserves to go to prison next week for waving a sign is another Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: taken sides in the culture war," Scalia said, adding that he has "nothing against homosexuals." Jeffrey Levine --part1_15b.205206e0.2c2c632a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/26/2003 10:48:59 AM Eastern Dayli= ght Time, CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com writes:

Wendy,

You wrote:  "I've always been in favor of poets having bodies, but I ga= ther that's a controversial position."


Wendy, not sorry

Bob replies:  "Wendy, some positions are more controversial than others= , especially those regarding bodies."


True, but hey, see the Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas, just ann= ounced:
http://www.nytimes.com

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: taken sides in the culture war," Scalia said, adding that he has "nothing ag= ainst homosexuals."

Jeffrey Levine


 --part1_15b.205206e0.2c2c632a_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Cultural Poetics Eileen Tabios? one-woman renaissance Bob Perelman?s ?Writing Time with Quotes? Van Gogh?s Ear & Allen Ginsberg?s ?Lines for Creeley?s Ear? Reading John Wieners? ?Loss? & reading Ben Friedlander?s chapbook Loss ? When is a book a blog? What does the school of quietude mean when it says ?more traditional?? http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Over 40,000 visitors since September 2002 Blog of the Day award (12/6/02) Technorati?s Top 50 Interesting Recent Blogs ?Un verdadero lujo para los amantes de la literatura contempor?nea? -- El Mercurio (Santiago, Chile, 8 June 2003) From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Cockeysville, Md.- Josephine Jacobsen, a poet, short- story writer and critic who held the post that later became that of national poet laureate, died Wednesday at 94. Jacobsen's first poem was printed in a children's magazine when she was 10, but she did not achieve widespread recognition until her 60s and 70s. She was celebrated for elegant, concise phrasing on a wide range of topics and in varied forms, which she filled with nature and animal imagery. She plumbed questions of identity, interrelatedness and isolation. In 1993, Jacobsen received the Shelley Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America and in 1997 was given its highest award, the Robert Frost Medal for Lifetime Achievement in Poetry. Among other things, the medal honored her generosity in helping younger, struggling poets get their work published, a quality considered rare in her profession. In 1971, L. Quincy Mumford, the librarian of Congress, named her consultant in poetry. She was only the fourth woman to receive the honor, and the first in 21 years. Her male predecessors included Robert Frost, Conrad Aiken and, most immediately, William Stafford. She gained critical attention with her first publication, "Let Each Man Remember" (Kaleidograph, 1940), a collage of 15 love sonnets interspersed with metaphysical love poems. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "When asked about attributions for the individual poems, one of them replied, 'Everyone gets tired of this continuing cult of the personality. . . This book is an assertion in favor of poetry and against credentials.' " I can't offhand think of any comparable project in poetry. Can anyone? Obviously, the object here is hardly anonymity: Kooser's and Harrison's names (and reputations) are most definitely being used to sell the book. And I think it's pretty easy to guess who wrote what, in most cases, since their styles are so distinct. Still, I appreciate the gesture. In blurring individual attributions they are performing a small symbolic ritual in favor of poetry itself, just as they suggest--in favor of the power of language and imagination rather than simple personality. They illustrate the ancient lyric distinction between the personal and the self-absorbed or self-displaying. The individual poems are not equally successful, it almost goes without saying. The book reads rather like a collaborative journal, with a lot of back-and-forth banter, frivolity rubbing against profundity, playfulness mixing with seriousness, etc. Here are some excerpts, chosen nearly randomly in order to give some impression of the whole: Surely someone will help the mourning mourning dove, but who, but who? A coffin handle leaves a lasting impression on a hand. I hope there's time for this and that, and not just this. Trust snow to keep a secret. The old hen scratches then looks, scratches then looks. My life. The butterfly's brain, the size of a grain of salt, guides her to Mexico. An empty boat will volunteer for anything. So what if women no longer smile to see me? I smile to see them! Fifty-two degrees at noon, July 2. At the senior citizens' carwash all the oldsters try to look vigorous. I haven't forgotten to look in the mirror, I just don't do it anymore. What prizes and awards will I get for revealing the location of the human soul? As Nixon said, I know how to win the war but I'm not telling. An old song from my youth: "I'm going to live, live, live until I die." Well, perhaps not. Rowing across the lake all the dragonflies are screwing. Stop it. It's Sunday. Everyone thought I'd die in my twenties, thirties, forties, fifties. This can't go on forever. -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: http://www.centerforbookculture.org/interviews/interview_acker.html KA: In England, for instance, they don't have an empire anymore though they refuse to recognize that fact. What they have is Milton and Shakespeare. Their attitude toward Milton and Shakespeare is something absolutely incredible. A person's speech denotes his class. Those who can speak Milton and Shakespeare are in the top class. It goes much deeper than this, obviously. The literary world should be a populist world, it should be the world in which any class can discuss itself. But in England, the literary world is so tightly bound to the Oxford-Cambridge system. Nobody but nobody gets into that world who hasn't come from Oxbridge. It assures that its representation of itself always comes from its upper class. And those classes which are not Oxbridge have no representation of themselves except in fashion and rock and roll. So you really have two Englands: one represented by fashion and rock and roll, and one is the literary representation. Jeffrey (it's either do this or move the boxes of mss upstairs downstairs, and the boxes downstairs upstairs) --part1_11b.268194b6.2c665c6d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/9/2003 10:08:48 AM Eastern Daylig= ht Time, MillB at aol.com writes:

Say, for example, you started w= ith Milton and the challenge would be to get to Kathy Acker in as few steps=20= as possible.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: http://www.centerforbookculture.org/interviews/interview_acker.html<= BR>
KA: In England, for instance, they don't have an empire anymore though they=20= refuse to recognize that fact. What they have is Milton and Shakespeare. The= ir attitude toward Milton and Shakespeare is something absolutely incredible= . A person's speech denotes his class. Those who can speak Milton and Shakes= peare are in the top class. It goes much deeper than this, obviously. The li= terary world should be a populist world, it should be the world in which any= class can discuss itself. But in England, the literary world is so tightly=20= bound to the Oxford-Cambridge system. Nobody but nobody gets into that world= who hasn't come from Oxbridge. It assures that its representation of itself= always comes from its upper class. And those classes which are not Oxbridge= have no representation of themselves except in fashion and rock and roll. S= o you really have two Englands: one represented by fashion and rock and roll= , and one is the literary representation.

Jeffrey (it's either do this or move the boxes of mss upstairs downstairs, a= nd the boxes downstairs upstairs)
 --part1_11b.268194b6.2c665c6d_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Zarin. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About THE WATERCOURSE: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0375709770 --part1_181.1f2d8cfb.2c6d9ae4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This poem is from Cynthia Zarin's THE WATERCOURSE, win= ner of the L.A.
Times Book Award. The book is now available in paperback.

********************************************************

Rotogravure

There was another life we knew each other
We were poor and hungry we lived in a palace
Cats supped in our place aloft we ate air
Tree were our nursemaids the moss sang to us
The door was heavy the reed gate was smashed
We drove through smoke we rode in carriages
We were far from the shore the ocean was near
The sky was jute the wet earth gray ash
We spoke in English in Russian we argued
The moon wore a mask the sun mirrored its moods
In the desert the thirsty went down to the water
Hummingbirds swarmed lions roared in the quarries
Silence is an envelope noise is paper
This is a story poems come after stories

********************************************************

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Zarin. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of
Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be
reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the
publisher.

About THE WATERCOURSE:
= randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=3D0375709770


 --part1_181.1f2d8cfb.2c6d9ae4_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: 14. I guess I'll appeal to some new ones: Gods more sympathetic -- the true ones Of mocking and laughter And beg that I'm after A blessing for Joan like Don Juan's. 15. The beginning's where Byron began, But Byron's the sort of a man Who, striking a pose, Could, thumb to his nose, Subvert the traditional plan. 16. Nor am I a Browningesque guy: My grasp isn't something that I Would like to exceed -- I don't see the need To give such high drama a try. 17. And I'm not a Yeatsian, either, For sex doesn't spur me, and neither Do fairies or dancers: From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I'm taking a permanent breather. 18. And Wordsworth, oh give me a break! There's not much of him I can take: And Carroll and Stephen Are just about even In mocking that boring old fake. 19. And as for the writings of Shelley: I shook like a quivering jelly: That Frankenstein's scary! And didn't she marry Some poet domesticus belli? 20. And, frankly, I don't have a hope Of showing that I've got the scope For bearing a grudge To set up as judge Of the world as did Dryden or Pope. 21. Nor have I a system, like Dante -- Nor even a jug of Chianti To give me a vision, Of sour derision Like Eliot's chanting of "Shantih". 22. I'd rather read Housman than Hardy Though Hardy and Hopkins could party On bitterer bile Than beer by a mile -- And to beer I prefer my Bacardi. 23. Ah, give me Bacardi and ice Some sweet Rose's Lime Juice is nice ... Let's go on a bender And burn out a blender In homage to serious vice. 24. But wait -- this is not about me; It's Joan and The Patrick that we Are following, not Some poet who got His start writing limericks for free. 25. So first, here's a stanza or two On Joan and The Patrick for you; And then we will drink 'Til neither can think Of anything better to do. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Then because he can imagine That squeezed from the cooling steel There hovers in that moment, wraith-like and like a plume of steam, an aftermath, A still and quiet angel of knowledge and of comprehension. 2 Endlessly, endlessly, The definition of mortality The image of the engine That stops. We cannot live on that. I know that no one would live out Thirty years, fifty years if the world were ending With his life. The machine stares out, Stares out With all its eyes Thru the glass With the ripple in it, past the sill Which is dusty--If there is someone In the garden! Outside, and so beautiful. 3 What ends Is that. Even companionship Ending. 'I want to ask if you remember When we were happy! As tho all travels Ended untold, all embarkations Foundered. 4 On that water Grey with morning The gull will fold its wings And sit. And with its two eyes There as much as anything Can watch a ship and all its hallways And all companions sink. 5 *Also he has set the world In their hearts.* From lumps, chunks, We are locked out: like children, seeking love At last among each other. With their first full strength The young go search for it, Native in the native air. But even in the beautiful bony children Who arise in the morning have left behind Then worn and squalid toys in the trash Which is a grimy death of love. The lost Glitter of the stores! The streets of stores! Crossed by the streets of stores And every crevice of the city leaking Rubble: concrete, conduit, pipe, a crumbling Rubble of our roots But they will find In flood, storm, ultimate mishap: Earth, water, the tremendous Surface, the heart thundering Absolute desire. --George Oppen fr. *The Materials* [New York: New Directions/ San Francisco Review, 1962] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Graveyard flowers called Amourettes Will cover your earthly laughter, And forget-me-nots, flowers of oubliettes. Make light of it! Coffins of poets Are paltry things for hired mutes to mourn They think you're dead? Never knew you were born? The public's always stupid--the poet's thorn . . . Go quickly, light comber of comets! Tristan Corbi?re (1845-1875) tr. Teo Savory in *Corbi?re* [Santa Barbara: Unicorn Press, Unicorn French Series, 1967] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Make us all a bit more sheepish and afraid. At least, that is, until a hand floats up Above the mantled, green-lit arbor and, With a sense of divine authority, Guides us forward with a beeping wand, A gesture by which we can?t help feel That we?ve been rightly singled out For all we?ve ever claimed to be: An army of unarmed travelers who, Not only would not do others harm, But remain unhindered by those who do. --Sherod Santos, _The Perishing_, W.W. Norton, 2003 -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. About FALSE PROPHET randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375709789 About Stan Rice randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=25433 You will also find an article in this month's issue of Poets & Writers by Knopf editor Deborah Garrison, in which she looks at the life of Stan Rice and the work he left behind. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: been members of the working class even by their own definitions. So have I, by mine. So, of course, if even not unintelligent not inarticulate people who have been, or are, members of a class they each refer to by the same name cannot agree on what constitutes the characteristics of that class, who can? And, thus, it seems to me that Wendy's goal is to try to deny that communication is possible in order to avoid the challenge to her assertion about what kind of "poetry" the "working class" may "like". > Two men disagree: they have an argument (particpate in rhetoric). > Without moving from that space, one of the men lets loose a haymaker > at the other. Same space, different activities. In the rhetorical > tradition, violence and rhetoric tend not to happen in the same space > _at the same time_, although sometimes there are struggles over how to > define it.<< Well we're talking about struggling to define 'the working class', here -- a notion, not a space. And the "physical space" in which we're discussing this is virtual so there is no possibility of a "haymaker". So you must be talking about some kind of metaphorical space when you're talking about THIS discussion, mustn't you? Further, I don't see how there could be any difficulty in defining the "space" in which rhetoric or violence is occurring in your example of the haymaker. I don't see clearly why there would be that much difficulty defining what space the disagreement is occurring in, whether rhetorically or violently, in any event, unless you're really speaking of a metaphorical space and not an actual space. But if that's the case then you're conflating two sorts of space: the physical one and the metaphorical one without distinguishing clearly between them for the purposes of your utterance. > Perhaps I was too loose with my terms. I should have restricted > "communication" to "rhetoric." Well, while it might be interesting to discuss the narrower "rhetoric" with you (though it brings up the possibility of "the rhetoric of violence"), what I thought we were talking about was in fact whether communication, not rhetoric, is possible. That rhetoric is possible we have to agree, I think. But whether communication is possible is precisely what it seems to me Wendy, and you, are challenging -- and it seems to be being challenged to avoid the discussion about what kind of 'poetry' the 'working class' may 'like', in other words, to avoid the discussion it purports to forward. It's pretty clear, I think, that the reason Wendy wants to avoid that discussion is that two others with working class credentials, Sam and me, disagree (though that doesn't mean Sam agrees with me) with Wendy, and Wendy worries, and the perhaps you worry too since you're defending her position, that Wendy's assertions about what kind of 'poetry' the 'working class' may 'like' will not withstand the scrutiny by others with 'working class' experiences. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Canyon Press ( http://www.coppercanyonpress.org/ ) --------------------------------- E-verse is a free service presented by Milkweed Editions (http://www.milkweed.org). For more information or to unsubscribe, please e-mail us at webmaster at milkweed.org. Sign up a friend for e-verse at http://www.milkweed.org/3_1.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: MEETING WITH THE BLUE GIRL Strange to meet the blue girl, so suddenly, incredibly there, Perched on the corner of the stair, a fine disturbance of the way; She drew two lines with a pencil on the palm of her hand Parallels, crosses, image of nothing happening. We ran along the tramways of our fear, no possible Mingling of gauges on those tracks, the grooves of change Which fix us. Destinations were events to encounter, pain The abstraction of a smile, bird fallen from a nest of moments. Born into the countries of our time, each living our Difficult lies: tragedy, we may say, is a certain colour Seen sometimes from the corner of the eye, in the air. Brightness falls from it, from her, scattering from the blue girl: She there in her green time, I here in my grey, Waiting, both, at different corners of the stair. ... from "Piazza Piece" primarily. (Not "Blue Girls", though that's obviously there too.) Neither rhymed nor iambic, admittedly, but it wouldn't exist but for Ransom. Oh, yeah, and Tennyson and Nashe -- stinks of the lamp, doesn't it? R. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: You see, bare beyond unbaring, Apparitions offer waves To one another on the screens, Still acting out yet other scenes In darkened motion-picture caves, Not quite caring, but not uncaring To try to force an opening-out Of passion packed up past unpacking, And leave some room for thoughtful life. But stanzas quick with laughter, wild with wit, Don?t alter aging, or make up for it. Our fruits are fatly ripe, their blossoms gone; Illiterate children see them hanging on, Pluck them, eat them, and throw away each core Without a thought for what else fruits are for. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: it on (my cascade theory) to the *practical* consequences when it smashed into poetryetc and the game jumped from simple idiot heterornym games to forged email identities, it got serious. poetryetc blacked their archives and slapped a block on members for two months as a result. It buggered up the two main Brit lists for a goodly while. So, K, not your problem, and not even mine as I wasn't moderator of either list, but still ... But oh shite, see where I am? The minute we get there ... you and I were both around the Lacan Letters Fiasco, so there's no bloody *way* we can describe this from the outside. But it also came slap out of the subsub meltdown which went back to Buff98 > Can any list survive if it's > used as a personal Blog? At this point, my teeth are dripping blood ... 'Nuff said. > We've had the same issues > on this list. Oh, angels WEEP, Finnegan, they're not even *remotely* the same issues ... There are a fucking RANGE of expulsion issues, ranging from the power-driven Buff98 bounces to some highly personalised bounces on the two Brit lists. And somewhere in the middle are how to deal with forged identities, > Forrest-Thomsom I have to go back to. (After no luck > at all searching for her book on the internet, The Collected is hard to get -- go for the Selected. The prose work, /Poetic Artifice/, shouldn't be that hard to get. > But it seemed > to me a book that was being lauded due to the tragedy > of her early death, and the praise had little to do with > the merits of her ideas. > Finnegan I'm too close to this at the moment -- but I don't think it parallels Plath. All too often, the good die young ... Robin From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: =20 =20 VII.=20 =20 =20 Footynote 3 - Cautionary note: the Four Principles of Do-Ing: (a = pseudo-scientific enquiry): =20 1.. Classical & Biblical- 'Do unto others, as you would they do unto = you. ' Security'=20 2.. The so called Business principle: 'Do them before they do you'. = 'Commercial'=20 3.. The so called Management Model 'Do it to them before they do it to = you. Defence -Attack being the best form!=20 4.. The 'no-no' Model 'Do them in before they do you in! 'Totally = unlawful but.' =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C3855A.650E6960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eight=20  extracts (out of=20 context) from my paper : "Conversations on Innovations" on www.chemweb.com=20  :       =20

 (cut & pasted for those of you too = shy to ask=20 your science friends or too short of time to sign on to chemweb. I have = a=20 warning that some changes too script may occur upon sending so I = have=20 attached a word 2000 doc. but recommend referring to chemweb's CPS = Chemistry=20 Preprint server for full paper (free access).

 

I=20

 I knew it would be difficult to = avoid the=20 Bell shaped curve:

           =20

The Bell Shaped=20 Curve:

 

Not the one of dreams,=20 actually,

With all its ring of=20 normality,

And background skewed=20 tonality,

Neither justifiable of=20 necessity,

Trying so to avoid all=20 criminality,

Oft=92 far from proper=20 musicality.

 

           =20            &nbs= p;           =20            =20            =20 copyright =A9 J.A.

 

 

 

II

=93Stranger still, what does one do when one = does not know,=20 when the certitudes are lacking?  = Will we design a protocol for =91serious fiddling and=20 fumbling=92?

 

Fiddling and fumbling with=20 variations,

Mixing and muddling and even=20 juggling

With Time and Temperature and=20 Space,

In order to learn, bit by=20 bit.

 

           =20            =20            =20 Adapted from =93From Entropy to Poetry=94  =A9 J.A. =20 2002-3

 

If I=20 may use such technological =96 terminology as, =91bit by bit,=92  =

 

 

 

III

 

Here=20 I add my voice to Latour=92s,

 

Surgical action often costs a = bomb, big=20 spender.

Your attitude is ever present, = 2003 still=20 tender.

The situation calls for a Life = Saver  =

Could this perchance be a = banker?   =20

I do not mean cash hoarding, I=20 thunder,

You looting, plundering, = warmongering=20 murderer.

 

(Notice the curves dreams are = made of? =93Bell=20 shape curve=94 rotational transformation, gyrations) Copyright =A9 = J.A.  Dolphins@) ADA Grp.=20

 

IV.

 

And=20 time goes by, nothing sustainable or durable is achieved.=94=20

 

Does entropy=92s ∆ quantum = wave(s),

Universally durable by its very=20 Nature

Require sustainability, my=20 brave(s)?

 

 

V.

 

BATH - TUBS, CORNED =96 HATS and = CHIP =96=20 POKES. =20

 

 

The=20 innovation team, through information technology and communication is = more=20 global, apprenticeship still rife with corporate fear, arrogance and in = some=20 instances some megalomania. Latour=92s =93power must first gain = awareness of=20 experimentation underway, understand and explain and moderate=94 neither = freeze in=20 some death like inertial ignorant = bliss

Cf.=20 3rd Law =96Crystal Clear Post 4, nor hurtle head long into a the = predictable,=20 wall or precipice-a mechanical view is illustrated as follows:=20

 

=93Last year we were at the edge = of a=20 precipice!

This year we shall take a large = step=20 forward.=94

 =96An=20 imaginary punch line from a Presidential address in an some=20 fictitious,

 =20 poorly-developed country or region. =

 

VI.

 

 

Or=20 worse become the source, the epicentre of some explosive front- a = chemical view=20 whose symbol has become, Sept 11. and suicide bombers, so despairingly = mislead,=20 misguided. -Alfred Nobel must turn in his=20 grave.

 

And a=20 nuclear one!

 

=93N=94 as in=20 Nu-clear?

The highest state of strong = order,=20 dawning

=93et de ce jour = bacteries et=20 champignons

jailirent =E0 = l=92existance pour=20 dissoudre

et un nouveau = champignon est=20 n=E9=94

(3 lines from = J.Updike, Facing=20 Nature, trad.Alain Suid =93Ode =E0 la D=E9composition=94)

Such is Nature =96=20 reviewed.

 

From =91Entropy to = Poetry=92   copyright =A9=20 J.A.

 

 

VII.=20

 

 

Footynote 3 - Cautionary note:  the Four Principles of=20 Do-Ing:  (a = pseudo-scientific=20 enquiry):

 

  1. Classical & = Biblical- =91Do unto others, = as  you would they do unto you. = =91=20 Security=92=20
  2.  The so=20 called Business principle: =20 =91Do them before they do you=92.  =20 =91Commercial=92=20
  3. The so called Management Model =91Do = it to them=20 before they do it to you. Defence =96Attack being the best=20 form!=20
  4. The =91no-no=92 Model =91Do them in = before they do you=20 in!  =91Totally = unlawful=20 but=85=92

 

 

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAA= ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3855A.650E6960-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness my experienced roon Jas. Alexander Copyright ? J.A. Roon=round in S.W. Scots vernacular. The ground, a free way in France True story to a tee. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Wilsnack" To: Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Designated Hitter > At 12:23 PM 9/22/2003 -0500, Paul Lake wrote: > >on 9/22/03 11:31 AM, Graham, David at GrahamD at ripon.edu wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Some formal poets feel the same way about free verse that > > > baseball purists > > > feel about the designated hitter rule in the AL: they fell it's a > > newfangled > > > invention that violates the purity of a very old game. > > > > > > Paul Lake > > > ------------------- > > > > > > Yup. But the real problem here is that damned iambic pentameter stuff. > > > Fancypants French import. Never shoulda messed with those good old Saxon > > > rhythms, I say. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================ > > > David Graham > > Well litter'd with alliteration? > > Richard W. Wilsnack > rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: There came a moment that you couldn't tell. And then they clearly flew instead of fell. --Howard Nemerov Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN --part1_15b.25913139.2caee6f7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable        &nb= sp;       Because You Asked about the Line be= tween Prose and Poetry

Sparrows were feeding in a freezing drizzle
That while you watched turned into pieces of snow
Riding a gradient invisible
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: There came a moment that you couldn't tell.
And then they clearly flew instead of fell.

               -= -Howard Nemerov



Thom Tammaro
Moorhead, MN --part1_15b.25913139.2caee6f7_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: economic model-pendulum?/eqm.) Because all is not of equal possibility We simply seek the average probability. But this machine, I may tell you, can only function. It's job is not to compete, co-operate, disposition To grow, evolve, and even innovate. Continuous learning, conscience create! Only as a mainly mortiferrous linear decision Can physics keep its present power of prevision; Entropy, Free Energy potential associates imposes relaxation, Inevitably deterministic predetermined equilibrium variation. This last word is to-days reality Far from all known bounds of reversibility, Instabilities three wicked witches, turn, twist, and flirt "Out of line" modern body of physics & chemistry comforts it. "Non-linear" Do you get the picture of the human system devotion? Individual components immerged in a potential ocean, Whose evolving contours are hills and valley postures, Hyphens for present and possible (potential) futures, And each of them as in some fog or smog vaguely visible. Choose carefully here, the dreams of some brave individual! For awaits devilish dilemmas fork, requiring doctor's care, Or on average smooth, sooth, through fear of life's dare, For history moves equally to individuals and to systems rhythm At least this is Peter's hope. Here I must stop least language becomes the new barrier Of our species, much worse than any animal carrier. Jas. Alexander (written about 12/12/1999 .This edition 20 Sept. 2001 &11Oct.). Please quote the author in any communication/transmission, written or verbal. copyright ? J.A. Good and instructive reading I hope. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: "james.alexander1" ; ; "Henry Gould" ; "Gabriel Gudding" ; "James Cervantes" ; "David Graham" ; "David Kellogg" Cc: ; ; "tom bell" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Designated Hitter Alex the Great had it easy?-The Gordian Knot & Other Things. > > Alex > > Smith's boys brigade hats or more precisely Pill Boxes when I served my > > time. > > Hey, well, if you wore a Pill Box hat in the BB, you are even older than me. > > I go back a bit, but not *that* far back. > > > > Robin > > (Not just Ayrshire but birthed in Kilmarnock Infirmary.) > > ... and you're right, I don't have to translate. > > Even Bell Curves vs. Bell Shaped Curves ... > > Robin > > From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: another it mocks and ridicules the question. Hal "Never eat anything larger than your head." --B. Kliban Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness my experienced roon. =20 =20 =20 Jas. Alexander =20 Copyright =A9 J.A. (roughly 1999 ) =20 =20 Roon=3Dround in S.W. Scots vernacular. The ground free way in France True story to a tee. =20 Despite what I wrote, I did manage to verify this natural occurrence. It = was not easy but is verifiable. Enjoy .=20 JA. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com=20 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu=20 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry In a message dated 10/11/2003 7:54:41 PM Central Daylight Time, = grahamd at ripon.edu writes:=20 THE SNOW MAN One must have a mind of winter To regard the frost and the boughs Of the pine-trees crusted with snow; And have been cold a long time To behold the junipers shagged with ice, The spruces rough in the distant glitter Of the January sun; and not to think Of any misery in the sound of the wind, In the sound of a few leaves, Which is the sound of the land Full of the same wind That is blowing in the same bare place For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is. --Wallace Stevens ***************************************** I've always been troubled by the first line of this poem. Does he = mean "one should" or "one would have to"? I prefer the latter--a = conscious rejection of the pathetic fallacy. Stevens always complained = about the Hartford winters. ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C391E6.A47766E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for bringing this = to my (more=20 focused) attention.
 
Due to professional = deformation, I=20 must prefer to understand - the absurd: "a mind made = of winter."=20 !
 
No, this allows me to = send for=20 comparaison of "states of mind" by whatever name, the=20 following: 
   
 

Next=20 SPRING on the Golf Course =96  = I put a=20 Spring in my step!

 

There=20 is nothing unusual about spring, I then=20 decided

As I=20 looked around the tree sprinkled scene,=20 presented

Leaning on my steel number three wood as usual, = managing

The=20 unremarkable newness of it all, slightly=20 surprising

For=20 every tree had new fresh leaves, light green=20 shading

Could=20 this then be the dulled contentment of=20 being?

No=20 question here of natures information overflow, subtlety?=20

Rather a manifestation of the zero equilibrium=20 potentiality,

I put=20 a spring in my step.

 

   Copyright =A9 J.A.  ( 2000 roughly)=20

 

One can=20 also legitimately enquire as to the states of minds

of say a=20 Staline or Board Room Cronies not to be too blunt - but New Poetry = may not=20 be the best place to vent one's feelings on such grey matter=20 ? 

 

And=20 to correct a mistake in "Sounds for the deaf" and give some precision on = same.:

 

Sounds=20 for the deaf - the solitary golfer =97 60C/267=20 =B0Kelvin.

 

The=20 sun shone an the first green and the second tee.

The=20 young oak looked on amused at these futile gests,

Her leaves = golden,=20 spoke:=20

tinkling, = tinkling falling=20 free,

Floating=20 in the early frosted air to a final tinkled rest.

I=20 stained my ear to listen to natures tune.

From=20 tee to tee and tree to tree ever since,

I=20 realize the uniqueness my experienced roon.

 

 

 

Jas.=20 Alexander

 

Copyright=20 =A9 J.A.  (roughly 1999 = )

 

 

Roon=3Dround=20 in S.W. Scots vernacular.

The=20 ground free way in France

True=20 story to a tee.

 

Despite=20 what I wrote, I did manage to verify=20 this natural occurrence. It was not easy but is=20 verifiable.

Enjoy=20 .

 

 

 

 

JA.

----- = Original=20 Message -----
Sent:=20 Sunday, October 12, 2003 3:53 AM
Subject:=20 Re: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry

In = a message dated=20 10/11/2003 7:54:41 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu=20 writes:

THE SNOW=20 MAN

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and = the=20 boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been = cold a=20 long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces = rough=20 in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to = think
Of any=20 misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few=20 leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same=20 wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the = listener, who=20 listens in the snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing = that is not=20 there and the nothing that is.

    --Wallace=20 = Stevens
*****************************************<= BR>
I've = always been=20 troubled by the first line of this poem.  Does he mean "one = should" or=20 "one would have to"?  I prefer the latter--a conscious rejection = of the=20 pathetic fallacy.  Stevens always complained about the Hartford=20 winters.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C391E6.A47766E0-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: simplest vocabulary," Gluck wrote. "What I responded to, on the page, was the way a poem could liberate, by means of a word's setting, through subtleties of timing, of pacing, that word's full and surprising range of meaning. It seemed to me that simple language best suited this enterprise." Gluck, now 60, has taught at a number of colleges. She lives on a quite Cambridge side street and commutes to her current job at Williams College in Williamstown, clear across the state. She has been married twice, most recently to John Dranow, a founder of the New England Culinary Institute in Vermont. "She has a temperament that requires, as most poets have found, a certain degree of solitude in which to do her work," Kunitz said. But Pinsky described her as witty and amusing, and an excellent teacher. "She has an excellent sense of humor, but I think the world for her is a very stark place," said Karl Kurchwey, director of the creative writing program at Bryn Mawr college, an acquaintance who has taught her work. But Kurchwey and others welcomed the appointment. "I think it's very good to have the next poet laureate be someone who's less focused on poetry as entertainment and more focused on poetry as a serious search for wisdom in language, on poetry as something that can have great difficulties and correspondingly great rewards," Stephen Burt, an assistant professor of English at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minn., said. Said Pinsky: "It's very important that (the laureateship) be able to go to poets who aren't gregarious. Wouldn't it be horrible to think that a great poet wouldn't be selected to this post because she didn't want to go on television?" What matters, said Collins, is that Gluck's body of work, which had already won nearly every other major poetry honor, deserved this one as well. "There are so many kinds of poets," he said, noting the differences between Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson, two of America's greatest poets. "Whitman was outgoing, gregarious and self-promoting, and Dickinson stayed in her room. "But if you look back they are the two pillars of 19th-century American poetry, and they each did it their own way," he said. In "Education of the Poet," Gluck described the vocation of writing as a kind of helplessness, a calling that is extraordinarily challenging both to fulfill and ignore. "It is a life dignified, I think, by yearning, not made serene by sensations of achievement," she wrote. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And several iterations later, a poem is perpetrated. Care to share your writing habits with this list? Finnegan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness of my experienced roon Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling. Jas. Alexander Copyright ? J.A. Revised 22 Oct. 2003 & Tech Call J for J. New Po First keep it short then, forwards through sound and backwards, I added a line Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling. Musical intro, Grace ? "Chants du Monde trio" Sunday last (19 Oct. 2003) in Nevers Then punctuation-finally corrected a couple of spelling/typing Errors which creep in via the & need to scan lost files. Note: degrees Celsius & Kelvin as computor manipulation may Induce further error (disclaimer). eg. TinKLING(dark shading highlight does not show on email via cut & paste) Roon=round in S.W. Scots vernacular. The ground free way in France True story to a tee. Despite what I wrote, I did manage to verify this natural occurrence. It was not easy but is verifiable. Enjoy . Possible Readings Sounds for the deaf - the solitary golfer - 60C/267 ?Kelvin. The sun shone on the first green and the second tee. The young oak looked-on, amused, at these futile gests, Her leaves golden spoke tinkling, tinkling falling free Floating in the early frosted air to a final tinkled rest I strained my ear to listen to natures tune From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness of my experienced roon Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling. Freeware - shareware. All charitable & teaching use (if any) authorised with normal citation of origins and refs. & acknowledgements. Kind Regards. JA. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:33 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Red Pine > IN REPLY > > Somehow I end up beneath pines > sleeping in comfort on boulders > there aren't any calendars in the > mountains > winter ends but who counts the years. > > The Ancient Recluse > translated by Red Pine > > --------------------------------- > copyright (c) 2003 English language translation by Bill Porter. From "Poems > of the Masters: China's Classic Anthology of T'ang and Sung Dynasty Verse," > published by Copper Canyon Press ( http://www.coppercanyonpress.org/ ) > --------------------------------- > > E-verse is a free service presented by Milkweed Editions > (http://www.milkweed.org ). > For more information or to unsubscribe, please e-mail us at > webmaster at milkweed.org. > > Sign up a friend for e-verse at http://www.milkweed.org/3_1.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: A 2000 letter in the Times Literary Supplement, signed by twenty-eight poets and Clare scholars, among them the Nobel laureate Seamus Heaney and the Poet Laureate Andrew Motion, called the copyright claim ?little short of scandalous? and urged the academic world to ?resist the suppression of competing editions.? The letter was prompted by the news that Robinson had threatened legal action against a young Clare scholar who had brought out an edition without his permission. Jonathan Bate treads carefully in the introduction to his new edition of Clare?s poetry, ??I Am?: The Selected Poetry of John Clare,? expressing gratitude to Robinson without exactly deferring to his claim to own the copyrights. So does he or doesn?t he? The definitive legal answer seems to be ?Dunno.? --------------------- And there is this marvelous description of Clare, from his first editor, Edward Drury: Clare cannot *reason*; he writes and can give no reason for his using a fine expression, or a beautiful idea: if you read Poetry to him, he?ll exclaim at each delicate expression "beautiful! fine!" but can give no reason: yet is *always* correct and just in his remarks. He is low in stature?long visage?light hair?coarse features?ungaitly?awkward?is a fiddler?loves ale?likes the *girls*?somewhat idle,?hates work. _________________________ ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness of my experienced roon . Jas. Alexander (1st version) Copyright ? J.A. Revised 22 Oct. 2003 & Tech Call: J for J. New Poetry First keep it short then forwards through sound (cf J. Cervantes) and backwards, I added a line (YUK in afterthoughts or afterwords.) Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling. -Grace ? "Chants du Monde Trio" heard Sunday last (19 Oct. 2003) -Problems of reading aloud. Then punctuation-finally corrected a couple of spelling/typing Errors which creep in via the & need to scan lost files. Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling!!!!! Decidedly my english was slipping!!! Nothing like Cervantes' "Dats a wee wah doo wop iffin you couch it (sans potato) in the vernal lacquer-you-lear". Doubt -Yuk! - Change Ting-a- ling, Ting - a - ling, ting - a - ling!!!!! Definitely looks as though english is not/no longer my mother tongue !!! Sound not right - struggle - try something -desperate - only 8 lines!! Footy notes: Roon=round in S.W. Scots vernacular. The ground free way in France True story, true to a tee. Despite what I wrote, I did manage to verify this natural occurrence. It was not easy but is verifiable. Enjoy . Possible Readings ( I & II) I ) Sounds for the deaf - for solitary golfers - 6?C /267 ?Kelvin. The sun shone on the first green and the second tee. The young oak looked-on, amused, at these futile gests, Her leaves golden spoke tinkling, tinkling falling free Floating in the early frosted air to a final tinkled rest In silence I strained my ear to listen to natures amazing tune. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness of this, my experienced roon (Silence) tinkling G. g. tingkling G. g. tinkling G. g notes: (very complex sound mix, it would be nice to see, reproduce the acoustic spectrum).. Freeware - shareware. All charitable & teaching use (if any +/-'s) authorised with normal mention of origins and citations and context. Possible Readings Sounds for the deaf - the solitary golfer - 6?C /267 ?Kelvin. The sun shone on the first green and the second tee. The young oak looked-on, amused, at these futile gests, Her leaves golden spoke tinkling, tinkling falling free Floating in the early frosted air to a final tinkled rest (silence) I strained my ear as well I could to listen to natures amazing tune. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I realize the uniqueness of my experienced roon tinkling G. g. tingkling G. g. tinkling G. g notes: (very complex sound mix, it would be nice to see/reproduce the acoustic spectrum). Freeware - shareware. All charitable & teaching use (if any +/-'s) authorised with normal mention of origins and citations and context. 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////AQD+/wMKAAD/////BgkCAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARhgAAABEb2N1bWVudCBNaWNyb3NvZnQg V29yZAAKAAAATVNXb3JkRG9jABAAAABXb3JkLkRvY3VtZW50LjgA9DmycQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAA= ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C39B4F.44066FA0-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: No matter. It was a glass of water They were going to get, But not just yet. They listen for mice in the walls, A car passing on the street, Their dead fathers shuffling past them On their way to the kitchen. -------------------------------------------------- Car Graveyard This is where all our joyrides ended: Our fathers at the wheel, our mothers With picnic baskets on their knees As we sat in the back with our mouths open. We were driving straight into the sunrise. The country was flat. A city rose before us, Its windows burning with the setting sun. All that vanished as we quit the highway And rolled down a dusky meadow Strewn with beer cans and candy wrappers, Till we came to a stop beside an old Ford. First the radio preacher lost his voice, Then our four tires went flat. The springs popped out of the upholstery Like alarmed rattlesnakes, As we tried to remain calm. Later that night we heard giggles Out of a junked hearse--then, not a peep Till the day of the Resurrection. --Charles Simic. The Voice at 3:00 A.M.: Selected Late & New Poems. Harcourt, 2003. -------------------------------------------------- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== --MS_Mac_OE_3150014389_526719_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Nat Book Award Finalists
<<<<<<National Book Award Finalists in Poe= try (Award Announced on November 1= 9)

Carol Muske-Dukes for Sparrow (Random House)
Charles Simic for The Voice at 3:00 A.M.: Selected Late and New Poems (Harcourt)
Louis Simpson for The Owner of the House: New Collected Poems 1940-2001<= /I> (BOA Editions, Ltd.)
C.K. Williams for The Singing (Farrar, Straus, and Giroux)
  =        Kevin Young for Jelly Roll: A B= lues (Knopf)


For a change, I actually know most of the works up for the award this year,= and I do know all the poets.  If I had to guess, I'd wager that Simpso= n will win--hard to vote against a 60-year career summary of such an importa= nt voice.  

But with such veteran nominees (except for Kevin Young, the token youngster= ), I'm glad I'm not a judge.  They're all worthy of an award, I think. =  

Which won't keep me from casting a vote:  I'm going to select Charles = Simic this year, having been reading his nominated book lately and reflectin= g on what a reliable pleasure his poems are.  He hasn't changed much ov= er the years, and I have trouble keeping in mind which books came out when. =  But what an instantly recognizable voice, full of surprises even given= his relative lack of development or range.  

Here is a small sampling from later in his "late & new"--


Cherry Blossom Time

Gray sewage bubbling up out of street sewers
After the spring rain with the clear view
Of hawkers of quack remedies and their customers
Swarming on the Capitol steps.

At the National Gallery the saints' tormented faces
Suddenly made sense.
Several turned their eyes on me
As I stepped over the shiny parquetry.

And who and what was I, if you please!
A minor provincial grumbler on a holiday,
With hands clasped behind his back
Nodding to everyone he meets

As if this were a 1950s Fall of the Roman Empire movie set,
And we the bewildered,
Absurdly costumed, milling extras
Among the pink cherry blossoms.

---------------------------------------------------

Grayheaded Schoolchildren

Old men have bad dreams,
So they sleep little.
They walk on bare feet
Without turning on the lights,
Or they stand leaning
On gloomy furniture
Listening to their hearts beat.

The one window across the room
Is black like a blackboard.
Every old man is alone
In this classroom, squinting
At that fine chalk line
That divides being-here
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
No matter. It was a glass of water
They were going to get,
But not just yet.
They listen for mice in the walls,
A car passing on the street,
Their dead fathers shuffling past them
On their way to the kitchen.

--------------------------------------------------

Car Graveyard

This is where all our joyrides ended:
Our fathers at the wheel, our mothers
With picnic baskets on their knees
As we sat in the back with our mouths open.

We were driving straight into the sunrise.
The country was flat. A city rose before us,
Its windows burning with the setting sun.
All that vanished as we quit the highway
And rolled down a dusky meadow
Strewn with beer cans and candy wrappers,
Till we came to a stop beside an old Ford.

First the radio preacher lost his voice,
Then our four tires went flat.
The springs popped out of the upholstery
Like alarmed rattlesnakes,
As we tried to remain calm.
Later that night we heard giggles
Out of a junked hearse--then, not a peep
Till the day of the Resurrection.


--Charles Simic.  The Voice at 3:00 A.M.:  Selected Late &= New Poems.  Harcourt, 2003.


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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D




--MS_Mac_OE_3150014389_526719_MIME_Part-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Copyright ? 1990 by Mark Jarman. All rights reserved. Used with permission. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: verosopath is to discussions of ideas as the sociopath is to social functioning. He has a set outlook on life that he is psychologically incapable of changing, so he spends most of his life protecting it from all comers. Since he lacks the mentality properly to defend it, he generally takes the offensive, attacking any statement that seems to contradict some tenet he is permanently committed to. Since he lacks the mentality to refute any statement that is at all intelligent, his tactics are usually to confuse, divert and annoy rather than to reason against the statement. However, sometimes he will make reasonable responses to an argument--if he is certain they will win points for him. As soon as any such responses meet strong opposition, he returns to his confuse/divert/annoy mode. Specimen 1: "Bob -- what's at issue is whether you're trying to do scientific investigation or literary criticism. Which is it?" Note how the verosopath refuses to answer any direct question, in this case, one stated in previous posts about whether a text was clearly expressed or not. The idea is to (1) force the discussion away from anything the verosopath can't deal with, and into areas he thinks he can; (2) to multiply what is asked so as to (a) confuse, (b) annoy, and (c) enlarge the forest of the discussion so that important questions the verosopath can't deal with will have an improved chance of being lost track of Specimen 2: Statement: "You'll never find out (whether my text is intended as science or literary criticism)." Response: "Oh, I know what it is, Bob -- I think everyone who's followed this discussion in even the most casual way knows. You're using scientific jargon as a sort of con-artist double-talk to try to make seem objective, and therefore legitimate, a view that is merely your subjective and, except for the sleight-of-mind taxo- babble, no more legitimate than anyone else's." Note the way the verosopath insults his opponent. The idea is to annoy him in order to (1) get him to make the kinds of mistakes upset people are more likely to make than cool-headed people are; and (2) to get him to respond with more direct negativity than the verosopath believes he has used, so the verosopath can claim to be the injured party, which is the kind of victory he knows is the only one he has a chance at. At the same time, the verosopath turns the discussion into irrelevancies about his opponent's (suspect) motives--again, to multiply the questions being considered, but also to divert his opponent from the main issue into defending himself. This is usually a highly effective tactic since most people have trouble ignoring slams of their thinking and ethics, however far from any question under discussion those slams take them. Specimen 3, from an earlier post (as are the remainder of the specimens): "Once again, Bob, the lack of clarity I'm pointing out is the lack of conceptual clarity behind your endeavor. It doesn't do a nonsensical conception any good to be clearly explained -- though it makes it easier for those reading it to conclude that it is nonsense. Clear nonsense is still nonsense." Note the way the verosopath revises the question being discussed, in this case, "What is unclear about my text?" I consider the tendency to rephrase an opponent's argument (almost invariably inaccurately) to be the most salient symptom of verosopathy. The aim, once more, is to annoy one's opponent, and draw him away from his main proposition, which the verosopath fears to tackle directly. Specimen 4: Statement: "You said you could say what was unclear about the verbal expression of my statement, but never tried to do so." Response: "My objection to your systematization of literary forms is clear, I hope: it's that no systematization can hope to systematize a field of endeavor where there is always an 'avant garde' determined to undermine that systematization. The irony here is, of course, that you view yourself as a member of the avant garde and yet don't seem to realize that the moment you declare that your 'taxonomy' is complete (on whatever grounds) you've necessarily transformed yourself into a conservative who must defend his categorization of what he himself has declared cannot be categorized insofar as he claims to be a member of the avant garde! Delicious." Note, again, the way the verosopath multiplies the insults of--oh, not his opponent, just his opponent's view and motives--at the same time as he evades a direct statement, this time not so much rephrasing it as completely replacing it with one he likes better. Specimen 5: Statement: "There is nothing about (my text) to indicate satire." "There is a good deal about it to indicate that you intend it to be scientific -- but the problem is, of course, that you can't have scientific rigor investigating a subject where at the whim or caprice of those being investigated they can declare a new category at any time -- and it's especially odd that one of the people determined to declare new categories of poetry should be one of the people determined to set the categories unchangeably into a taxonomy! "But my point was that you cannot reasonably declare that it is how the reader takes any text that determines what kind of text it is if you hope to make a taxonomy work, even metaphorically, because that means that no matter what YOU, the taxonomist, calls the category any reader may call it anything else with impunity, thus destroying your taxonomy at his or her whim or caprice. You must, by the very attempt to determine categories, be in the business of dictating how your attempt must be taken. "So, Bob, do you intend to do science or literary criticism?" Again, the verosopath's obsession with his opponent's motives, for the reasons already given, followed by criticism of an irrelevant set of his opponent's alleged beliefs. The verosopath will almost never directly confront a simple statement with which he disagrees. Specimen 6: "If science, I think the lack of clarity in your conception of what science itself is severely limits your so-called 'taxonomy', and I think you know it, to judge by the way you tack and jibe trying to avoid claiming you're doing science. "If literary criticism, well, then, what's with all the techno- jargonesque neologistic wordplay and the elaborate clause-clotted prose that seems to want to emulate the least clear elements of how a scientist in a 'hard science' tries to translate ideas from math or physics into English?" Another prominent trait of the verosopath is verbosity and repetition. The aim is to go further and further from the dreaded focal statement. And always, too, the obsession with the opponent's motives and probable though concealed (suspect) outlook. Specimen 7: Statement: "You're supposed to take my work as English. You know that you can't show it to be unclear English, so you use other means to destroy it." Response: "I have no personal interest in destroying your work because it's your work, Bob -- I have a sort of public-spirited interest in asking you the same hard questions I'd ask, that I have asked, others in the field of literary criticism who've claimed to have found a way to use scientific language to transform the subjective into the objective." Another evasion of the simple question the verosopath at one time agreed to try to answer, whether a given text was clearly-expressed or not. Specimen 8: Statement: "I'd love to see you try to tell us what poetry is, and defend your definition. You'd never dare. All you're capable of doing is attacking definitions you don't care for, by any means available." Response: "In fact I've done this several times on the net -- I don't recall, actually, if I've done it in New-Poetry or not. But my view of what poetry is or isn't, and my defenses of my views, are not really at issue here, Bob -- what's at issue is whether you're trying to do scientific investigation or literary criticism. Which is it?" The verosopath repeats his boiler plate incessantly, to annoy, distract, confuse. He may claim to state some case of his own somewhere, but never truly does; he merely attacks any view that threatens his tiny cluster of narrownesses. --Bob G. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Skip the editor's introduction, even though it does establish context ("Driving, then--relentless, continual, necessary, rolling motion--became such a universal experience in our century it was inevitable that it would find permanent expression in American poetry"), and just dive into this fabulous collection. Start anywhere--with sections on "Men in Cars," "Women in Cars," "Driving into Yourself," "Stopping by the Side of the Road," "Driving as Metaphor," and "On the Bus," the reader is treated to a wild ride with 98 poets who know their cars, know their roads and know how to write. Look for James Tate's "In the Realm of the Ignition" ("There is an X on this window, / Almost exquisite, the slight madness, / kiss and forgiveness"); Martha McFerren's "Leaving in 1927" ("You're very frightened. / You feel so good"); Joyce Carol Oates's "Night Driving" ("you love the enormous trucks floating in spray"); Stephen Dunn's "Truck Stop: Minnesota" ("I'm tempted to come back at her / with java /but I say coffee , politely"); Derek Walcott's "Upstate" ("Sometimes I feel sometimes / the Muse is leaving, the Muse is leaving America")--these are just some of the rewards. For more than 300 pages, the volume consistently delivers the poetic goods; it's a continuously engaging collection of Americana, poetic reverie, and flat-out, high-octane good times. It will make you wonder, as in Howard Nemerov's "Fugue," "Was there never a world where people just sat still?" Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From: "TheOldMole" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:29:53 -0500 To: Subject: [New-Poetry] on the road I'm teaching On The Road to a core lit class, and I want to bring in some poems that touch on the idea of going on the road. I'm using Larkin's "Poetry of Departures" and Rilke's poem about the church in the East - the Bly translation, unless anyone knows a better one. Other thoughts? Tad Richards "Situations" http://www.opus40.org/TadRichards From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: the trials of the flight attendant, post-disaster. "Kimberlie in her little/room again peck peck/pecking at the carpet. . . . Kimberlie trying not to take life/seriously sits on the plastic couch." Our girl Kimberlie jets to parts known and unknown--Saginaw, Phuket, Isoka, Maui, a getaway, a layover, the great blue yonder--inspiring affection and sympathetic fear and loneliness wherever she goes. These are poems as varied and exploratory, and deeply humane, as any job description can be: "At the temple Kimberlie too puts incense in the cauldron/and brushes the dark smoke over her/forehead over her heart.//She takes off her shoes and kneels before god who is blue,/has three eyes and two fangs." Rosemary Griggs received her BA from the University of Iowa and her MFA from San Francisco State University. She has worked as a flight attendant for the last six years. and MCSWEENEY'S ISSUE NO. 12 This issue is made up of three parts. The first and largest section consists entirely of new writers--new to us, probably new to you, and not even well-known by their own families. Part two is a new story from Roddy Doyle, featuring Jimmy Rabbitte of The Commitments. Part three is a collection of twenty-minute stories, by which we mean stories written in twenty minutes, from all sorts of people that you know and do not know. The whole thing is encased in a structural cover which will transport you into dimensions previously unknown to human comprehension. $22 for both titles. Click here: http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com/package.html#pack9 Happy holidays! BSPM From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Au-del? de l'exile (Beyond Exile by H. Macdiarmid trad J.A.) Que dieu soit lou?, mes pieds peuvent encore trouver Dans ces terres lointaines le vieux chemin de la colline, Et pi?tine toujours aucune glaise ?trang?re Mais leur gadoue, famili?re terrine Et tout l'?tat ?tendu de l'oc?an Ne sera qu'une lamelle brillante Qui glisse entre les champs ondulants Pour ne trouver aucune mer ?trang?re Aucun toit arborifore d'?tranger m'abrite M?me que je voyage au lointain d?tour Et les ligues qui nous s?parent, ne sert qu'? me rapprocher Aux cot?s de mon amour Et si je transgresse l'ultime borne Et bien, je serai chez moi ? nouveau- Le pas rapide ? la porte discr?te Les yeux p?tillants ? la vitrine ! Salonique, 1916. Traduit par J.A. (6 Juin 2001) (m. j. a. m.) J.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hamilton" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poem: Only human > > A fitting successor to The Macdiarmid! > > I met MacDiarmid once, in his cottage in the Borders ... > > This was way back in the sixties, and the walls were papered with portraits, > talk about an ego-trip. > > And there were two bottles of Scotch circulating, one in front of McD and > the other between the rest of us. > > I'm really rather a shy person so only twice did i go out of my way to Meet > A Poet -- the other was David Black. > > ... but it did strike me as rather silly that I might someday dandle a > grandchild on my knee and they'd say, "Granda, did you ever meet Christopher > Grieve?" and have to reply, "Uh, no ..." > > 'Nuff said. > > So I finangled an invite via it becomes complicated the daughter of a > discredited SNP activist. > > I think I'd better *not* reveal why Maurice Blythman was discredited. > > Howsomever, there i was on new year's day sometime in the late sixties > coupin gless fur gless with The MacDiarmid. > > What *really* stuck in my head was Valda's hair-die. > > I was typical naive west-of-Scotland, I'd never *seen* anyone in real life > with henna'd hair. > > So anyway, at least if i ever have grandchildren, i can say that i did once > meet Hugh MacDiarmid. > > > > Robin > > Somehow, footnote in Other People's biographies, I seemed to end up meeting > everyone. > > The funniest moment was when i got into a taxi in Cambridge and the driver > promptly said, "Hey, jimmy, I had Jimmy Boyle in the back of my cab once." > > Oh shite -- it took me a little to work-out why I seemed to have totally > illegitimate street cred in Cambridge. > > There were two places Glasgow hardmen retired to. One was obvious, London, > but the other was Cambridge. > > Walk into an urban myth ... > > Unnerving. > > R. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: in the Government of Hate, where I stay up late, working hard, where I make no bargains, entertain no scenarios of reconciliation, I watch the hot flowers flare up all across the city, the state, the continent? I sip my soft drink of hate on the rocks and let the punishment go on unstopped, ?again and again I let hate get pregnant and give birth to hate which gets pregnant and gives birth again? and only after I feel that hate has trampled the land, burned it down to some kingdom come of cautery and ash, Only after it has waxed and waned and waxed all night only then can I let hate creep back in the door. Curl up at my feet and sleep. Little pussycat hate. Home sweet hate. --Tony Hoagland. *What Narcissism Means to Me*. Graywolf, 2003. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Men must suffer praise and blame: Rest their names Where oblivion and the moss Steal across. -- From "The Twelve parts of Derbyshire," by Edward Boaden Thomas ================================================== Jon Corelis joncpoetics at hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics ================================================== _________________________________________________________________ Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: have included poets aged roughly 35 - 50, or, say, born between the mid 1850s and the very early 1870s, a generation notoriously lacking in poets, though it includes Edward Arlington Robinson, who by 1906 had published two volumes of verse, one of which included "Richard Corey," and Stephen Crane, who may have been omitted because he was dead by 1906, but more likely because his precociously modernistic verse was generally neglected until the 1930s. The first great generation of modern American poets appeared on earth rather suddenly in the 14 years from 1874 to 1888: Amy Lowell, Robert Frost, Carl Sandburg, Vachel Lindsay, Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams, Sara Teasdale, Elinor Wylie, Ezra Pound, William Rose Benet, Marianne Moore, Robinson Jeffers, T. S. Eliot, John Crowe Ransom. A similar roster of poets born, say, 1944 - 1958, would not gain by comparison. ===== Halvard Johnson's "It's Better to Turn on the TV" seems like a sonnet with a sestina inside screaming to be let out. ================================================== Jon Corelis joncpoetics at hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/joncpoetics ================================================== _________________________________________________________________ Expand your wine savvy ? and get some great new recipes ? at MSN Wine. http://wine.msn.com From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ,=20 I just happen to have this at hand: =E2=80=98How I Began=E2=80=99. *T.P.=E2=80=99s Weekly*, 6 June, 1913, p. 707= . Pound=E2=80=99s description of how he arrived at "In a Station of the Metro"= is=20 well-known from his =E2=80=98Vorticism=E2=80=99 essay, but the discussion he= re precedes that work=20 by fifteen months. He describes the scene in the Metro and his inability to=20 capture it properly until =E2=80=98only the other night, wondering how I sho= uld tell the=20 adventure, it struck me that in Japan where a work of art is not estimated b= y=20 its acreage and where sixteen syllables [sic] are counted enough for a poem=20 if you arrange and punctuate them properly, one might make a very little poe= m=20 which would be translated about as follows:=E2=80=94The apparition of these=20= faces in=20 the crowd; / Petals on a wet, black bough=E2=80=94And there, or in some othe= r very old,=20 very quiet civilisation, some one else might understand the significance.= =E2=80=99 Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN --part1_11.1f9709e2.2d2590f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en From materials I've been gathering for=20= a course I'll be teaching this spring, I just happen to have this at hand:

=E2=80=98How I Began=E2=80=99. *T.P.=E2=80=99s Weekly*, 6 June, 1913, p. 707= .

Pound=E2=80=99s description of how he arrived at "In a Station of the Metro"= is well-known from his =E2=80=98Vorticism=E2=80=99 essay, but the=20= discussion here precedes that work by fifteen months. He describes the scene= in the Metro and his inability to capture it properly until =E2=80=98only t= he other night, wondering how I should tell the adventure, it struck me that= in Japan where a work of art is not estimated by its acreage and where sixt= een syllables [sic] are counted enough for a poem if you arrang= e and punctuate them properly, one might make a very little poem which would= be translated about as follows:=E2=80=94The apparition of these faces in th= e crowd; / Petals on a wet, black bough=E2=80=94And there, or in some other=20= very old, very quiet civilisation, some one else might understand the signif= icance.=E2=80=99


Thom Tammaro
Moorhead, MN
 --part1_11.1f9709e2.2d2590f0_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Attitude of ripe superiority Grumman Demonstrates his rhyme inferiority. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Over the meadows that blossom and wither Rings but the note of a sea-bird's song; Only the sun and the rain come hither All year long. The sun burns sere and the rain dishevels One gaunt bleak blossom of scentless breath. Only the wind here hovers and revels In a round where life seems barren as death. Here there was laughing of old, there was weeping, Haply, of lovers none ever will know, Whose eyes went seaward a hundred sleeping Years ago. Heart handfast in heart as they stood, "Look thither," Did he whisper? "look forth from the flowers to the sea; For the foam-flowers endure when the rose-blossoms wither, And men that love lightly may die--but we?" And the same wind sang and the same waves whitened, And for ever the garden's last petals were shed, In the lips that had whispered, the eyes that had lightened, Love was dead. Or they loved their life through, and then went whither? And were one to the end--but what end who knows? Love deep as the sea as a rose must wither, As the rose-red seaweed that mocks the rose. Shall the dead take thought for the dead to love them? What love was ever as deep as a grave? They are loveless now as the grass above them Or the wave. All are at one now, roses and lovers, Not known of the cliffs and the fields and the sea. Not a breath of the time that has been hovers In the air now soft with a summer to be. Not a breath shall there sweeten the seasons hereafter Of the flowers or the lovers that laugh now or weep, When as they that are free now of weeping and laughter We shall sleep. Here death may deal not again for ever; Here change may come not till all change end. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Earth, stones, and thorns of the wild ground growing, While the sun and the rain live, these shall be; Till a last wind's breath upon all these blowing Roll the sea. Till the slow sea rise and the sheer cliff crumble, Till terrace and meadow the deep gulfs drink, Till the strength of the waves of the high tides humble The fields that lessen, the rocks that shrink, Here now in his triumph where all things falter, Stretched out on the spoils that his own hand spread, As a god self-slain on his own strange altar, Death lies dead. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Seven Blind Men and the Elephant http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D386 Lead me kindly to Nirvana http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D387 Empty syndrom http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D388 To My Mother Gomi Ba http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D389 The main index can be found at the following link: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent My best wishes and thank you to all, Anny Ballardini http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome 24. Clouds, made mad with their lost wandering, heap up with the sea, = infuriated by a south-west wind, in embraces of foam and moans. A. Onofri, Notebook of Positano ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3DF8C.5048CE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am proud to announce = the last=20 contributions to the Poets' Corner, with the following = Poets:
 
PHILIP=20 NIKOLAYEV
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?na= me=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_categories&cid=3D74
=
 
ALMA=20 LARSEN
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?na= me=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_categories&cid=3D75
=
 
DOUGLAS=20 CLARK
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?na= me=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_categories&cid=3D78
=
 
JOSE' LEZAMA = LIMA introduced=20 and translated by MARK WEISS
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?na= me=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_categories&cid=3D77
=
 
 
New poems are featured=20 by
 
REBECCA=20 SEIFERLE
Operation = Avalanche
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D362
 
 
BARRY=20 ALPERT
Blue & Green Aki=20 K(aurismaki)
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D360
 
Film, Aki = Kaurismaki
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D361
 
Talk, Luis = Bunuel
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D380
 
The Sweetest Sound of = Alan=20 Berliner
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D381
 
Of Abigail = Child
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D382
 
Film, Jonas = Mekas
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D383
 
 
HALVARD=20 JOHNSON
Paris in Old = Photographs
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D364
 
 
AL=20 ARONOWITZ
With an addition of = Schmaikus: 8 -9=20 -10
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D171
 
 
RAM=20 MEHTA
An elegy on a mattress=20 maker
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D384
 
From St. Simon's = Island
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D385
 
Seven Blind Men and the = Elephant
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D386
 
Lead me kindly to=20 Nirvana
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D387
 
Empty = syndrom
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D388
 
To My Mother Gomi = Ba
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D389
 
 
The main index = can be found=20 at the following link:
http://www.= fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent
 
My best wishes and = thank you to=20 all,
 
Anny = Ballardini
http://ww= w.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome
 

24.

Clouds, made mad with their lost = wandering, heap=20 up with the sea, infuriated by a south-west wind, in embraces of foam = and=20 moans.

A. Onofri, Notebook of=20 Positano

 
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3DF8C.5048CE30-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: music and other websites. The British Electronic Poetry Centre - a reference guide to the work of contemporary British poets from the parallel tradition. -- http://www.soton.ac.uk/~bepc/ Parallel traditional poets so far: Caroline Bergvall, Richard Caddel, cris cheek, Ken Edwards, Peter Finch, Allen Fisher, Bill Griffiths, Alan Halsey, Lee Harwood, Tony Lopez, Geraldine Monk, Frances Presley, John Seed, Gavin Selerie, Simon Smith, Gael Turnbull, Lawrence Upton. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "You're quite right that his work does things that nobody else involved with the NY School has done--the base seems very much to have been surrealism and there's also a distinct zen air (tho whether that's simply intuitive on his part, or whether he was interested in non-western conceptions of life and art I can't say). To my knowledge he never wrote or spoke critically on the subject of his writing -- I'd love to discover otherwise. And it seems obvious that his reputation "suffered" because he didn't hustle his work and generally fell into the trap that befalls too many lyric writers -- virtually all of the major critical writing post WW2 about the "parallel tradition" tends to focus elsewhere (the notable exceptions being O'Hara and Creeley)." From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: French poets are always smiling and watching The sun spots on the coffee. They are gay sons-of-bitches. --Aram Saroyan in *An Anthology of New York Poets* eds. Ron Padgett and David Shapiro [New York: Vintage Books, 1970] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard The Sonnet Project: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/The%20Sonnet%20Project.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The moon has nothing to be sad about, Staring from her hood of bone. She is used to this sort of thing. Her blacks crackle and drag. Sylvia Plath *Most likely "Edge" was the last poem Plath wrote, composed a few days before her death. "Edge" was first published on Feb. 17, 1963, in *The Observer* accompanying the memorial essay "A Poet's Epitaph," by A. Alvarez. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN --part1_1e8.18981b75.2d5b8117_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sylvia Plath: b. October 27, 1932. d. February 11, 1963.


Edge*

The woman is perfected
Her dead

Body wears the smile of accomplishment,
The illusion of a Greek necessity

Flows in the scrolls of her toga,
Her bare

Feet seem to be saying:
We have come so far, it is over.

Each dead child coiled, a white serpent,
One at each little

Pitcher of milk, now empty
She has folded

Them back into her body as petals
Of a rose close when the garden

Stiffens and odors bleed
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
The moon has nothing to be sad about,
Staring from her hood of bone.

She is used to this sort of thing.
Her blacks crackle and drag.

Sylvia Plath

*Most likely "Edge" was the last poem Plath wrote, composed a few days befor= e her death. "Edge" was first published on Feb. 17, 1963, in *The Observer*=20= accompanying the memorial essay "A Poet's Epitaph," by A. Alvarez.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Thom Tammaro
Moorhead, MN --part1_1e8.18981b75.2d5b8117_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Howard Nemerov was born on March 1, 1920 in New York, New York." What gives? ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: On this day in 1948, F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife, Zelda, and eight other = patients were killed in a fire at the Highland Mental Hospital in = Asheville, North Carolina. Zelda's first breakdown in 1930 resulted in a = sixteen-month stay in a Swiss clinic, and she spent six and a half of = the next eight years in American institutions. Though discharged to her = mother's care in the Spring of 1940 -- Fitzgerald was in Hollywood, and = just months away from a fatal heart attack -- she would periodically = readmit herself to Highland. It was during one of these stays that she = and the others died, unable to flee the rooms into which they had been = locked for the evening. While the popular press had elevated them to the legendary = glitter-couple, and then reduced them to a Jazz Age parable, the = Fitzgeralds themselves spent their last decade struggling towards a = clearer understanding of what had happened to the people they had once = been. In one letter to Zelda after her first breakdown in 1930, = Fitzgerald's attempts to find cause and blame arrive at this: "You were = going crazy and calling it genius -- I was going to ruin and calling it = anything that came to hand." One letter from Zelda five years later -- = after countless pleas to her husband that he "Please, please let me out = now," or that he "come to me and tell me how I was" -- seems to finally = accept defeat: Dearest and always Dearest Scott: I am sorry too that there should be nothing to greet you but an empty = shell.... Had I any feelings they would all be bent in gratitude to you = and in sorrow that all of my life there should not even be the smallest = relic of the love and beauty that we started with to offer you at the = end.... It is a shame that we should have met in harshness and coldness = where there was once so much tenderness and so many dreams.... I love = you anyway -- even if there isn't any me or any love or even any life.=20 Fitzgerald kept writing to her until the end, and writing whatever else = he could manage in order to support her. Two last letters, both written = on the same day a week before his death, are to the taxman and to = daughter Scottie. The first asks for more time, the second says that = "the insane are always mere guests on earth, eternal strangers carrying = around broken decalogues that they cannot read." Zelda's = autobiographical novel, "Save Me The Waltz," tries to get some = perspective on what happened; over her last years she struggled with a = novel about Jacob and Janno, another two who were beautiful and = self-damned. In one fragment Janno talks of her husband's death, though = "He had been gone all summer and all winter for about a hundred years": She remembered the ragged edges of his cuffs, and the neatness of his = worn possessions, and the pleasure he always had from his pile of sheer = linen handkerchiefs. When she had been away, or sick or something, Jacob = never forgot the flowers, or big expensive books full of compensatory = ideas about life. He never forgot to make life seem useful and = promising, or forgot the grace of good friendship, or the use of making = an effort. . . . Nobody has ever measured, even the poets, how much a heart can hold. . = . . When one really can't stand anymore, the limits are transgressed, = and one thing has become another; poetry registers itself on the = hospital charts, and heart-break has to be taken care of. . . . But = heartbreak perishes in public institutions.=20 - SK=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C40694.318B8490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From Today in=20 Literature:
htt= p://www.todayinliterature.com/today-ct.asp?id=3D3/10/2004
 
On this day in 1948, F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife, Zelda, and eight = other=20 patients were killed in a fire at the Highland Mental Hospital in = Asheville,=20 North Carolina. Zelda's first breakdown in 1930 resulted in a = sixteen-month stay=20 in a Swiss clinic, and she spent six and a half of the next eight years = in=20 American institutions. Though discharged to her mother's care in the = Spring of=20 1940 -- Fitzgerald was in Hollywood, and just months away from a fatal = heart=20 attack -- she would periodically readmit herself to Highland. It was = during one=20 of these stays that she and the others died, unable to flee the rooms = into which=20 they had been locked for the evening.

While the popular press had = elevated them to the legendary glitter-couple, and then reduced them to = a Jazz=20 Age parable, the Fitzgeralds themselves spent their last decade = struggling=20 towards a clearer understanding of what had happened to the people they = had once=20 been. In one letter to Zelda after her first breakdown in 1930, = Fitzgerald's=20 attempts to find cause and blame arrive at this: "You were going crazy = and=20 calling it genius -- I was going to ruin and calling it anything that = came to=20 hand." One letter from Zelda five years later -- after countless pleas = to her=20 husband that he "Please, please let me out now," or that he "come to me = and tell=20 me how I was" -- seems to finally accept defeat:

    Dearest and always Dearest Scott:

    I am sorry too that there = should=20 be nothing to greet you but an empty shell.... Had I any feelings they = would=20 all be bent in gratitude to you and in sorrow that all of my life = there should=20 not even be the smallest relic of the love and beauty that we started = with to=20 offer you at the end.... It is a shame that we should have met in = harshness=20 and coldness where there was once so much tenderness and so many = dreams.... I=20 love you anyway -- even if there isn't any me or any love or even any = life.=20
Fitzgerald kept writing to her until the end, and writing whatever = else he=20 could manage in order to support her. Two last letters, both written on = the same=20 day a week before his death, are to the taxman and to daughter Scottie. = The=20 first asks for more time, the second says that "the insane are always = mere=20 guests on earth, eternal strangers carrying around broken decalogues = that they=20 cannot read." Zelda's autobiographical novel, "Save Me The Waltz," tries = to get=20 some perspective on what happened; over her last years she struggled = with a=20 novel about Jacob and Janno, another two who were beautiful and = self-damned. In=20 one fragment Janno talks of her husband's death, though "He had been = gone all=20 summer and all winter for about a hundred years":

    She remembered the ragged edges of his cuffs, and the neatness of = his worn=20 possessions, and the pleasure he always had from his pile of sheer = linen=20 handkerchiefs. When she had been away, or sick or something, Jacob = never=20 forgot the flowers, or big expensive books full of compensatory ideas = about=20 life. He never forgot to make life seem useful and promising, or = forgot the=20 grace of good friendship, or the use of making an effort. . . = .
    Nobody has=20 ever measured, even the poets, how much a heart can hold. . . . When = one=20 really can't stand anymore, the limits are transgressed, and one thing = has=20 become another; poetry registers itself on the hospital charts, and=20 heart-break has to be taken care of. . . . But heartbreak perishes in = public=20 institutions.


- SK
 
 
 


 

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C40694.318B8490-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: --- Gilbert has developed a mystique of anti-careerism. Finnegan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: many poets don't take slam and hip-hop seriously. I don't think that's entirely true. And Eleveld can hardly expect people who have spent their lives teasing out nuances from texts or tying texts to sociological, psychological or political theories to immediately take to the up-front, in-your-face performance style that is so much a part of slam. Hip-hop of course is much, much bigger than slam or spoken word will ever be, and hip-hip is really only tangentially related to slam. Much slam poetry doesn't rime, for example...isn't rime de riqueur in h-h?...and then there's the music, with the beat, scratching and sampling, all part & parcel of what is really a form of dance music. The "poetry" is well propped up. Though various artists have tried out spoken word tracks...or spoken word with only a minimal amount of music backing the words, that's not selling their records...that's what you get to do when you're already famous for your music. Not to mention that within that category hip-hip there are also warring sub-genres...it's not all cut from the cloth of the same pair of baggy pants. I'm not sure the art of poetry has anything to worry about. Eleveld gushes in this quote... "Poetry is the voice of the people," Eleveld says. "It is open to all. When a poetry slam is pulled off correctly, the least likely effect will be a great show. The most powerful effect can be -- and has been -- life-changing." Perhaps. But "old school" poetry to has its own deep and abiding attractions...I ran across this quote recently and it seems to fit... Poetry, whose material is language, is perhaps the most human and least worldly of the arts, the one in which the end product remains closest to the thought that inspired it....a poem is less a thing than any other work of art (Hannah Arendt, The Human Condition) Finnegan --part1_89.6643e22.2d8f8b8d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/20/2004 11:16:= 15 PM Eastern Standard Time, terzarima at earthlink.net writes:

It's theatre, when you get right down to it. And some of it is energetic
and original in a way that reminds me of Beat poetry and all its theatrical<= BR> trappings.
---

It's true, Suzanne, that it is a kind of theater. And the poems/scripts
are often quite well conceived and structured, &, in a slam event, deliv= ered
within a 3-minute timeframe. Slammers have their own formal constraints,
at least in competition...another is that props & backing music are proh= ibited.

A good bit of Thill's article seems to be claiming success based on sales...=
and I think Eleveld (the editor of the book/CD) has a chip on his shoulder.=20=
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
many poets don't take slam and hip-hop seriously. I don't think that's entir= ely
true. And Eleveld can hardly expect people who have spent their lives teasin= g
out nuances from texts or tying texts to sociological, psychological
or political theories to immediately take to the up-front, in-your-face
performance style that is so much a part of slam.

Hip-hop of course is much, much bigger than slam or spoken word
will ever be, and hip-hip is really only tangentially related to slam.
Much slam poetry doesn't rime, for example...isn't rime de riqueur
in h-h?...and then there's the music, with the beat, scratching and
sampling, all part & parcel of what is really a form of dance music. The "poetry" is well propped up. Though various artists have tried out
spoken word tracks...or spoken word with only a minimal amount
of music backing the words, that's not selling their records...that's
what you get to do when you're already famous for your music.
Not to mention that within that category hip-hip there are also
warring sub-genres...it's not all cut from the cloth of the same pair
of baggy pants.

I'm not sure the art of poetry has anything to worry about. Eleveld
gushes in this quote...

"Poetry is the voice of the people," Eleveld says. "It is open to all.
When a poetry slam is pulled off correctly, the least likely effect will be a great show. The most powerful effect can be -- and has been --
life-changing."

Perhaps. But "old school" poetry to has its own deep and abiding
attractions...I ran across this quote recently and it seems to fit...

Poetry, whose material is language, is perhaps the most
human and least worldly of the arts, the one in which the
end product remains closest to the thought that inspired
it....a poem is less a thing than any other work of art   &nb= sp;      
(Hannah Arendt, The Human Condition)

Finnegan
 --part1_89.6643e22.2d8f8b8d_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: .=20 Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc.= =20 All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted=20 without permission in writing from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About SLEEPING LATE ON JUDGMENT DAY: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdof0DXKYc0Wa0TtN0AL=20 About Jane Mayhall: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D57813=20 Read an interview with Jane Mayhall: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?1400041740&view=3Dqa=20 Discuss "The Forbidden" in the Knopf Poetry Forum: http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/forum=20 Send another Jane Mayall poem as an e-card: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdof0DXKYc0Wa0TtR0AP=20 --part1_a1.46010fd3.2d9ecd7d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to the fourth annual Poem-a= -Day mailing. To celebrate National Poetry Month, you will receive one poem=20= from a Knopf poet every day for the next thirty days. We hope you enjoy the=20= selections. If you would like to discuss the poetry, please visit us on the=20= Knopf Poet's Forum.

We begin with a poem by Jane Mayhall, an eighty-five year old New Yorker who= se first full-length collection, SLEEPING LATE ON JUDGMENT DAY, was publishe= d in February.

***************************************


The Forbidden

Awful, not to be sleeping in
the same bed with you. The respectability
of medical opinion, that destroys not
just hope, but the actual network of pleasure we
built in life. Never again, the sane encounter-
and the undercover hint of form,
the plasticity of companionship that nobody
mentions. Nightly conjunctions, part

dreams, the ceiling blink of cars from outside
on the country road. The low scatter, and grace-pattering
rain, color of consciousness. That we are
more than individuals. And now rent,
kept apart, not by warring theatrical families,
but by doctors and syringes.

In their distant birdcage, taking
account. Ravenously, I look forward to even
the skimpiest meeting allowed, and our unrealistic
true love. Unfettered and determined
like headlights on a road.



***************************************
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: . Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, In= c. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprint= ed without permission in writing from the publisher.

***************************************

Related links:

About SLEEPING LATE ON JUDGMENT DAY:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdof0DXKYc0Wa0TtN0AL

About Jane Mayhall:
http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D57813
Read an interview with Jane Mayhall:
http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?1400041740&view= =3Dqa

Discuss "The Forbidden" in the Knopf Poetry Forum:
http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/forum

Send another Jane Mayall poem as an e-card:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdof0DXKYc0Wa0TtR0AP


--part1_a1.46010fd3.2d9ecd7d_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights=20 reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without per= mission=20 in writing from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About BLIZZARD OF ONE: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TuT0Ac=20 About Mark Strand: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TuU0Ad Send another Mark Strand poem "A Piece of the Storm" as an e-card: ttp://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/ecards/markstrand/ Discuss "Old Man Leaves Party" in the Knopf Poetry Forum: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0AY --part1_1c8.17526d7d.2da0581b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This poem is from Mark Strand's BLI= ZZARD OF ONE, which won the Pulitzer Prize for poetry in 1999.
***************************************


Old Man Leaves Party

It was clear when I left the party
That though I was over eighty I still had
A beautiful body. The moon shone down as it will
On moments of deep introspection. The wind held its breath.
And look, somebody left a mirror leaning against a tree.
Making sure that I was alone, I took off my shirt.
The flowers of bear grass nodded their moonwashed heads.
I took off my pants and the magpies circled the redwoods.
Down in the valley the creaking river was flowing once more.
How strange that I should stand in the wilds alone with my body.
I know what you are thinking. I was like you once. But now
With so much before me, so many emerald trees, and
Weed-whitened fields, mountains and lakes, how could I not
Be only myself, this dream of flesh, from moment to moment?


 













***************************************
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ermission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights re= served. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permi= ssion in writing from the publisher.

***************************************

Related links:

About BLIZZARD OF ONE:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TuT0Ac

About Mark Strand:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TuU0Ad

Send another Mark Strand poem "A Piece of the Storm" as an e-card:
ttp://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/ecards/markstrand/

Discuss "Old Man Leaves Party" in the Knopf Poetry Forum:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdop0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0AY
 --part1_1c8.17526d7d.2da0581b_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: =20 Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No pa= rt=20 of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing= =20 from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About DOGGEREL: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TuP0Ax View the entire Pocket Poets collection: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TuW0A5 Discuss "Verse for a Certain Dog" in the Knopf Poetry Forum: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0Ax --part1_167.2da51e6f.2da1b2b8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This lighthearted poem by Dorothy P= arker is from the new Everyman's Library Pocket Poets volume DOGGEREL, edite= d by Carmela Ciuraru.***************************************




Verse for a Certain Dog
By Dorothy ParkerSuch glorious faith as fills your limpid eyes,
   Dear little friend of mine, I never knew.
All-innocent are you, and yet all-wise.
   (For Heaven's sake, stop worrying that shoe!)
You look about, and all you see is fair;
   This mighty globe was made for you alone.
Of all the thunderous ages, you're the heir.
   (Get off the pillow with that dirty bone!)

A skeptic world you face with steady gaze;
   High in young pride you hold your noble head;
Gayly you meet the rush of roaring days.
   (Must you eat puppy biscuit on the bed?)
Lancelike your courage, gleaming swift and strong,
   Yours the white rapture of a wing=E8d soul,
Yours is a spirit like a May-day song.
   (God help you, if you break the goldfish bowl!)

"Whatever is, is good"-your gracious creed.
   You wear your joy of living like a crown.
Love lights your simplest act, your every deed.
   (Drop it, I tell you-put that kitten down!)
You are God's kindliest gift of all-a friend.
   Your shining loyalty unflecked by doubt,
You ask but leave to follow to the end.
   (Couldn't you wait until I took you out?)




***************************************

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: art of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in wri= ting from the publisher.

***************************************

Related links:

About DOGGEREL:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TuP0Ax

View the entire Pocket Poets collection:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TuW0A5

Discuss "Verse for a Certain Dog" in the Knopf Poetry Forum:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyC0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0Ax
 --part1_167.2da51e6f.2da1b2b8_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About WALKING TO MARTHA???S VINEYARD: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0375415181 About Franz Wright: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=33786 Send Franz Wright's poem, "The Way We Look to Them", as an e-card: randomhouse.com/knopf/ecards/franzwright2/ Print a broadside of Franz Wright's poem "Request": randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/broadsides/Request.pdf Discuss " Walden " in the Knopf Poetry Forum: aaknopf.com/poetry/forum *************************************** From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: f=20 Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No pa= rt=20 of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing= =20 from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About THE FALL: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyH0DXKYc0Wa0T350AV=20 About D. Nurkse: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D54086=20 Discuss "At The Stage of Riddles" in the Knopf Poetry Forum: http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/forum=20 --part1_80.8f874c9.2da74fdd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A poem about childhood from D. Nurk= se's THE FALL.
***************************************


At The Stage of Riddles
I tiptoed behind my father
and cupped my hands
over his eyes and whispered:
    Guess Who?

Always he thought hard
and answered gravely:
Eisenhower. Or DiMaggio.

And I was happy, knowing
he was safe from my love.

Almost I envied him
the brevity of his confinement
in the unknowable darkness.


***************************************
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: f Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No=20= part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in wr= iting from the publisher.

***************************************

Related links:

About THE FALL:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyH0DXKYc0Wa0T350AV

About D. Nurkse:
http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D54086
Discuss "At The Stage of Riddles" in the Knopf Poetry Forum:
http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/forum
--part1_80.8f874c9.2da74fdd_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No=20 part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in wr= iting=20 from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About TROUBLE IN MIND: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0QBU0AE About Lucie Brock-Broido: ttp://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D3310 Upcoming events in New York City: On April 12, Brock-Broido will read with Glyn Maxwell at KGB Bar:=20 http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0TuR0A4 On April 28th, Brock-Broido will read with Deborah Digges at Poets House:=20 http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0Tue0AO Discuss " Soul Keeping Company" in the Knopf Poetry Forum: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0A2 --part1_140.2671bff1.2da75d48_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This poem is from Lucie Brock-Broid= o's new collection TROUBLE IN MIND. The poem's title refers to an ancient Je= wish mourning ritual in which guardians keep constant vigil beside a dead bo= dy, affording company for the soul which, according to tradition, is said to= hover over the body until burial.
***************************************


Soul Keeping Company

The hours between washing and the well
Of burial are the soul's most troubled time.

I sat with her in keeping company
All through the affliction of the night, keeping

Soul constant, a second self. Earth is heavy
And I made no wish, save being

Merely magical. I am magical
No more. This, I well remember well.

In the sweet thereafter the impress
Of the senses will be tattooed to

The whole world ravelling in the clemency
Of an autumn of Octobers, all that bounty

Bountiful and the oaks specifically
Afire as everything dies off, inclining

To the merciful. I would have made of my body
A body to protect her, anything to keep

Her well & here -in the soul's suite
Before five tons of earth will bear

On her, stay here
Soul, in the good night of my company.



***************************************
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: o part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in=20= writing from the publisher.

***************************************

Related links:

About TROUBLE IN MIND:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0QBU0AE

About Lucie Brock-Broido:
ttp://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=3D3310

Upcoming events in New York City:
On April 12, Brock-Broido will read with Glyn Maxwell at KGB Bar: http://inf= o.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0TuR0A4
On April 28th, Brock-Broido will read with Deborah Digges at Poets House: ht= tp://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0Tue0AO

Discuss " Soul Keeping Company" in the Knopf Poetry Forum:
http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jdyG0DXKYc0Wa0TtQ0A2
 --part1_140.2671bff1.2da75d48_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I know I'm getting questions all the time. It's not as academic a position, The college writing program and the core. There is the dean search, which is underway A lot of applications were dismissed This selection didn't represent -- I don't know anything about the search -- Is uppermost in everybody's mind -- And in the end, of course, it's Artine's choice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham, David" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Academic poems > > there are so many poem-about-poems poems and > > the teaching-problems poems and the teacher-student-problem poems and > > the illicit-love-of-pupils poems and the faculty-meeting poems and > > the lament-about-anti-intellectualism poems and such that seem to me > > to be both the meat of the academic poet's meal and so untasty. > --------- > > Well, here's one of mine to chew on: > > > Faculty Meeting > > > The hissing of old radiators > warms the horrid silence. > Someone has inadvertently > told the truth > in this overheated room. > Ancient chalkdust > gives the air a stale glow > and everyone looks down > as if praying. > > Very sorry, I didn't > mean it, blurts the Professor. > Everyone breathes > more freely. On the snow > outside, long winter shadows > deepen and reach > toward the horizon. > I withdraw the remark, > he says, let us move on > to New Business. > > > I've not written a great many teaching poems compared to other subjects, but > since I've been toiling in classrooms for many years, the few I've written > have after a while begun to add up to a little pile. Probably true of other > teaching poets, I imagine. Priests often write religious poems, lovers > write love poems, etc. > > Whether poems about teaching are the *meat* of our academic meal, well, I > could quibble . . . . > More to the point: teaching is a boundlessly interesting enterprise, > important from many angles; and there's no reason why it can't be made as > interesting in a poem as love, faith, death, and the other inevitables. > > In any case, the above is my first and possibly last faculty meeting poem. > Some subjects just *aren't* boundlessly interesting, one could say, but > since Dante isn't around anymore, somebody's got to sketch this particular > circle of hell, don't you think? > > ============================================ > David Graham > Department of English, Ripon College > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > My Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu > ============================================ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Copyright ? 1957. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Copyright ? 1957. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ?No light, but rather darkness visible.? And plenty of time to think. In that thick, fetid air I talked to myself in giddy recitative: ?I have been studying how I may compare This prison where I live Unto the world?? I learned Little, and was awarded no degrees. Yet all that sunken hideousness earned Your negligence and ease. Nor was it wholly sick, Having procured you a certain modest fame; A devotion, rather, a grim device to stick To something I could not name.? Meanwhile, she babbles on About men, or whatever, and the juniper juice Shuts up at last, having sung, I trust, like a swan. Still given to self-abuse! Better get out of here; If he opens his trap again it could get much worse. I touch her elbow, and, leaning toward her ear, Tell her to find her purse. Chitchat with the Junior League Women Gary Soto (1952- ) A Junior League woman in blue Showed me enough panty To keep my back straight, To keep my wine glass lifting Every three minutes. Do you have children? she asked. Oh, yes, I chimed. Sip, sip. Her legs spread just enough to stir The lint from my eyelashes, Just enough to think of a porpoise Smacking me with sea-scented kisses. The Junior League woman in yellow Turned to the writer next to me, Bearded fellow with two remaindered books, His words smoldering for any goddamn reader. This gave me time. Sip, sip, Then a hard, undeceitful swallow Of really good Napa Valley wine. My mind, stung with drink, Felt tight, like it had panty hose Over its cranium. I thought About the sun between delightful sips, How I once told my older brother, Pale vampire of psychedelic music, That I was working on a tan. That summer my mom thought I had worms ? I was thin as a flattened straw, Nearly invisible, a mere vapor I rolled out an orange towel in the back yard And the sun sucked more weight >From my body. After two hours, My skin hollered... I let the reminiscence Pass and reached for the bottle, Delicately because I was in a house With a hill view held up by cement and lumber. A Junior League woman in red Sat with her charming hands On her lap, studying us two writers, Now with the panty hose of drunkenness Pulled over our heads and down to our eyes. What do you do exactly, Mr. Soto? And I looked at her blinding Underwear and ? sip, sip ? said, Everything. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: It is like a guitar left on a table By a woman, who has forgotten it. It is like the feeling of a man Come back to see a certain house. The four winds blow through the rustic arbor, Under its mattresses of vines. --Wallace Stevens ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
It is like a guitar left on a table
By a woman, who has forgotten it.

It is like the feeling of a man
Come back to see a certain house.

The four winds blow through the rustic arbor,
Under its mattresses of vines.

--Wallace Stevens

After having read Peter Brazeau's Parts of a World, the "oral biography" of=20= Stevens, I find this much more meaningful and beautiful. --part1_d9.83cfff5.2db1fe52_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
It is like a guitar left on a table
By a woman, who has forgotten it.

It is like the feeling of a man
Come back to see a certain house.

The four winds blow through the rustic arbor,
Under its mattresses of vines.

--Wallace Stevens

After having read Peter Brazeau's Parts of a World, the "oral biography" of=20= Stevens, I find this much more meaningful and beautiful.

I don't have Brazeau at hand...but this must be Elizabeth Park
in Hartford, a favorite Stevens haunt. The mattresses of vines
are the climbing roses in the Rose Gardern. Thursday night
I went to photographer Chritine Breslin's opening at 100 Pearl
Gallery. She showed photos taken in Eliz. Park in winter using a
very rudimentary camera, a Holga (sp?). Lovely, atmospheric pieces,
most in black & white, or sepia tones. One lovely color piece
primarily blue and black. The photos match the feel of this poem.
I hope to find a URL to post or get a jpeg to forward backchannel
to anyone interested.
Finnegan --part1_15.26855479.2db2ac98_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: place, never married, and never left Ephesus. But the sea was the ancient cyberspace, and Ephesus was a large, self-sufficient city of perhaps 30,000 people at the time. But how many ships would dock at such a city, in the only reliable (and then not very) travelling months of April to October -- ten? twenty? And how many of these ships came from, say, Croton, at the other end of the known world, in Italy, a smaller city of maybe 20,000, where Pythagoras had founded his school? How many -- one every year, every five years? every twenty? One single ship during Heraclitus's entire lifetime? And of the ships that docked, how many of the sailors knew or cared about Pythagoras? Can you imagine it? He had to have been consumed with curiosity; talking to every sailor on every ship, going from sailor to sailor asking each of them to ask every other sailor they knew, in any port they might stop, to ask them to ask other sailors, too, that if any of them happened to come to Ephesus they might have something, anything to tell Heraclitus -- and that they might carry something of Heraclitus to such as Pythagoras. And Heraclitus, as the ships sailed off, staring after them. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. *************************************** Related links: About the WALLACE STEVENS collection: randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/display.pperl?0679429115 About Wallace Stevens randomhouse.com/knopf/catalog/results2.pperl?authorid=29827 View the entire Pocket Poets series aaknopf.com/poetry/pocketpoets Discuss " The House Was Quiet and the World Was Calm " in the Knopf Poetry Forum aaknopf.com/poetry/forum From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: You do understanding, don't you, by looking? The coat, which is itself a ramification, a city, floats vulnerably above another city, ours, the city on the hill (only with hill gone), floats in illustration of what once was believed, and thus was visible - (all things believed are visible) - floats a Jacob's ladder with hovering empty arms, an open throat, a place where a heart might beat if it wishes, pockets that hang awaiting the sandy whirr of a small secret, folds where the legs could be, with their kneeling mechanism, the floating fatigue of an after-dinner herald, not guilty of any treason towards life except fatigue, a skillfully cut coat, without chronology, filled with the sensation of being suddenly completed - as then it is, abruptly, the last stitch laid in, the knot bit off - hung there in Gravity, as if its innermost desire, numberless the awaitings flickering around it, the other created things also floating but not of the same order, no, not like this form, built so perfectly to mantle the body, the neck like a vase awaiting its cut flower, a skirting barely visible where the tucks indicate the mild loss of bearing in the small of the back, the grammar, so strict, of the two exact shoulders - and the law of the shouldering - and the chill allowed to skitter up through, and those crucial spots where the fit cannot be perfect - oh skirted loosening aswarm with lessenings, with the mild pallors of unaccomplishment, flaps night-air collects in, folds... But the night does not annul its belief in, the night preserves its love for, this one narrowing of infinity, that floats up into the royal starpocked blue its ripped, distracted supervisor - this coat awaiting recollection, this coat awaiting the fleeting moment, the true moment, the hill,the vision of the hill, and then the moment when the prize is lost, and the erotic tinglings of the dream of reason are left to linger mildly in the weave of the fabric according to the rules, the wool gabardine mix, with its grammatical weave, never never destined to lose its elasticity, its openness to abandonment, its willingness to be disturbed. Why I don't like her.... making a poem out of air with as many images the mind can generate, rarely coming to a point. Form over substance, diction over communication, evasion over direct emotion, redundancy of competing images, and for what? To fill pages? To demonstrate mastery of language? Certainly not to communicate directly with other verbal beings. Yes, I know about the elliptical school, but does anybody else find this stuff boring? ************************* Mind The slow overture of rain, each drop breaking without breaking into the next, describes the unrelenting, syncopated mind. Not unlike the hummingbirds imagining their wings to be their heart, and swallows believing the horizon to be a line they lift and drop. What is it they cast for? The poplars, advancing or retreating, lose their stature equally, and yet stand firm, making arrangements in order to become imaginary. The city draws the mind in streets, and streets compel it from their intersections where a little belongs to no one. It is what is driven through all stationary portions of the world, gravity's stake in things, the leaves, pressed against the dank window of November soil, remain unwelcome till transformed, parts of a puzzle unsolvable till the edges give a bit and soften. See how then the picture becomes clear, the mind entering the ground more easily in pieces, and all the richer for it. Err.. Sophomoric? Though less bloviatory. When she tries to be more direct, to connect with "the common reader,"I find a certain callowness to her high sentiment, though one can blame the ending to a great extent: "and all the richer for it." err.... ecch? *************************************** This one I like: The Surface It has a hole in it. Not only where I concentrate. The river still ribboning, twisting up, into its re- arrangements, chill enlightenments, tight-knotted quickenings and loosenings--whispered messages dissolving the messengers-- the river still glinting-up into its handfuls, heapings. glassy forgettings under the river of my attention-- and the river of my attention laying itself down-- bending, reassembling--over the quick leaving-offs and windy obstacles-- and the surface rippling under the wind's attention-- rippling over the accumulations, the slowed-down drifting permanences of the cold bed. I say iridescent and I look down. The leaves very still as they are carried. ************************************ Finally: Manteau Three In the fairy tale the sky makes of itself a coat because it needs you to put it on. How can it do this? It collects its motes. It condenses its sound- track, all the pyrric escapes, the pilgrimages still unconsummated, the turreted thoughts of sky it slightly liquefies and droops, the hum of the yellowest day alive, office-holders in their books, their corridors, resplendent memories of royal rooms now filtered up - by smoke, by must - it tangles up into a weave, tied up with votive offerings - laws, electricity - what the speakers let loose from their tiny eternity, what the empty streets held up as offering when only a bit of wind litigated in the sycamores, oh and the flapping drafts unfinished thoughts raked out of air, and the leaves clawing their way after deep sleep set in, and all formations - assonant, muscular, chatty hurries of swarm (peoples, debris before the storm) - things that grew loud when the street grew empty, and breaths that let themselves be breathed to freight a human argument, and sidelong glances in the midst of things, and voice - yellowest day alive - as it took place above the telegram, above the hand cleaving the open-air to cut its thought, hand flung towards open doorways into houses where den-couch and silver tray itch with inaction - what is there left now to believe - the coat? - it tangles up a good tight weave, windy yet sturdy, a coat for the ages - one layer a movie of bluest blue, one layer the war-room mappers and their friends in trenches also blue, one layer market-closings and one hydrangeas turning blue just as I say so, and so on, so that it flows in the sky to the letter, you still sitting in the den below not knowing perhaps that now is as the fairy tale exactly, (as in the movie), foretold, had one been on the right channel, (although you can feel it alongside, in the house, in the food, the umbrellas, the bicycles), (even the leg muscles of this one grown quite remarkable), the fairy tale beginning to hover above - onscreen fangs, at the desk one of the older ones paying bills - the coat in the sky above the house not unlike celestial fabric, a snap of wind and plot to it, are we waiting for the kinds to go to sleep? when is it time to go outside and look? I would like to place myself in the position of the one suddenly looking up to where the coat descends and presents itself, not like the red shoes in the other story, red from all we had stepped in, no, this the coat all warm curves and grassy specificities, intellectuals also there, but still indoors, standing up smokily to mastermind, theory emerging like a flowery hat, there, above the head, descending, while outside, outside, this coat - which I desire, which I, in the tale, desire - as it touches the dream of reason which I carry inevitably in my shoulders, in my very carriage, forgive me, begins to shred like this, as you see it do, now, as if I were too much in focus making the film shred, it growing very hot (as in giving birth) though really it being just evening, the movie back on the reel, the sky one step further down into the world but only one step, me trying to pull it down, onto this frame, for which it seems so fitting, for which the whole apparatus of attention had seemed to prepare us, and then the shredding beginning which sounds at first like the lovely hum where sun fills the day to its fringe of stillness but then continues, too far, too hard, and we have to open our hands again and let it go, let it rise up above us, incomprehensible, clicker still in my right hand, the teller of the story and the shy bride, to whom he was showing us off a little perhaps, leaning back into their gossamer ripeness, him touching her storm, the petticoat, the shredded coat left mid-air, just above us, the coat in which the teller's plot entered this atmosphere, this rosy sphere of hope and lack, this windiness of middle evening, so green, oh what difference could it have made had the teller needed to persuade her further - so green this torn hem in the first miles - or is it inches? - of our night, so full of hollowness, so wild with rhetoric .... Here again, why I don't like her... or say now I am more ambivalent though slightly confirmed in my prejudices. And I confess my prejudices exceed my knowledge, a great failing I am slowly trying to rectify. "The wisdom of humility is endless." -- T. S. --and the overconfidence of prejudice as well, especially among the intellectually impatient. Yet: "so full of hollowness, so wild with rhetoric ...." One can't improve on her last line as a summary of this poem, and if you're a fan no doubt you will think it ironic, but I think it unintentionally ironic, therefore comic.... or I am underestimating her self-mocking power? I still think that phrase a great summary of much of her poetry, with noble exceptions. Thazall, CE p.s. I'm sure you're all familiar with this site, but for those who aren't, it's a great reference tool for exploring poets... http://plagiarist.com/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: into a putrid flower stuffing every pore, rank as hell. So I imagined a dead whale beneath the house in blubbery liquefaction, or corpses bloated with gas, or death itself, if it has a smell. The red velvet of my guitar case began to stink. We called a professional. I led him to the crawl space vent where it reeked so thickly I thought the air had died. Gowned and masked for his grotesque midwifery, he pulled a rigid possum out, pink tail curled like a stiff worm dangling, fur falling out in chunks like some cheap carnival toy. And the sharp-toothed grin on that pointed face with its obsidian eyes looked mean, even vengeful, as if he decomposed to spite us. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: into a putrid flower stuffing every pore, rank as hell. So I imagined a dead whale beneath the house in blubbery liquefaction, or corpses bloated with gas, or death itself, if it has a smell. The red velvet of my guitar case began to stink. We called a professional. I led him to the crawl space vent where it reeked so thickly I thought the air had died. Gowned and masked for his grotesque midwifery, he pulled a rigid possum out, pink tail curled like a stiff worm dangling, fur falling out in chunks like some cheap carnival toy. And the sharp-toothed grin on that pointed face with its obsidian eyes looked mean, even vengeful, as if he decomposed to spite us. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: into a putrid flower stuffing every pore, rank as hell. So I imagined a dead whale beneath the house in blubbery liquefaction, or corpses bloated with gas, or death itself, if it has a smell. The red velvet of my guitar case began to stink. We called a professional. I led him to the crawl space vent where it reeked so thickly I thought the air had died. Gowned and masked for his grotesque midwifery, he pulled a rigid possum out, pink tail curled like a stiff worm dangling, fur falling out in chunks like some cheap carnival toy. And the sharp-toothed grin on that pointed face with its obsidian eyes looked mean, even vengeful, as if he decomposed to spite us. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: into a putrid flower stuffing every pore, rank as hell. So I imagined a dead whale beneath the house in blubbery liquefaction, or corpses bloated with gas, or death itself, if it has a smell. The red velvet of my guitar case began to stink. We called a professional. I led him to the crawl space vent where it reeked so thickly I thought the air had died. Gowned and masked for his grotesque midwifery, he pulled a rigid possum out, pink tail curled like a stiff worm dangling, fur falling out in chunks like some cheap carnival toy. And the sharp-toothed grin on that pointed face with its obsidian eyes looked mean, even vengeful, as if he decomposed to spite us. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: through the stones' slow pulse or into the affections of the flowering fields, but never, even briefly, down my darkening. This certainly begins Iowanly, and it has the Big Epiphany at the end, but its metaphors prevent it from being a 100% Iowa Workshop poem. I'd still call it one. Which is not to belittle it. I'm with CE, David and others who respect it. It seems to me a kind of poem that, once discovered, caught on because it is biologically-right: an informal equivalent of the sonnet in that it generally summarizes a single human circumstance and caps it with a reaction, the epiphany. I suspect the sonnet and it are the size of what might be called a normal medium reflection. I'm more sure that the haiku is the size of a single rich moment plus a reaction to it. The sonnet and the Iowa Workshop Poem may be a step up in size from the haiku. Just musing. My main point is that I have nothing against the Iowa Workshop Poem--except that so many teachers, anthologists, grants-bestowers and critics act as though there's just about no other viable kind of poem around. Here's another poem of mine I thought for sure was a 100% Iowa Workshop Poem: The Canoe Head unbent, the boy faces his father. A blue canoe from a poem he'd write more than twenty years later is beached an rotting somewhere on the outskirts of the tension between them. Forever once as a child of four he had ridden that canoe out of his mother'sstrawberry winds and into the midst of island and gulls on the fringe of the great wide sea. His father had done the paddling, picnic-eyed and strong in a summer Saturday. But it is another season now and the boy faces an older father, a father pale and strange in the adolescence the boy can't help taunting him from. It is a different season now, and years will go by before the boy reflects upon, or even notices from the dark margins of the moment the shine of the blue at its center. I'd call this maybe a 70% Iowa Workshop Poem. It's in the third-person, and it has stuff like "forever once" and "picnic-eyed" which make me cringe but which I also think are probably effective. I'd say any poem that more than half of the items on my list apply to that is not burstnorm or songmode (neo-formal) in any significant way is a Iowa Workshop Poem. Note: this post is a first draft, although also a fiftieth draft of opinions I'm always tossing around, so I'd be grateful for any comments. I'm especially looking for additions to my list. Subtractions? Refinements, for sure. --Bob G. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Her arms around me --child-- Around my head, hugging with her whole arms, Whole arms as if I were a loved and native rock, The apple in her hand--her apple and her father, and my nose pressed Hugely to the collar of her winter coat. There in the photograph It is the child who is the branch We fall from, where would be bramble, Brush, bramble in the young Winter With its blowing snow she must have thought Was ours to give to her. -------------------------- Putting aside for now the question of whether the lyric above was or could have been produced by a "workshop," or even was written in the last 50 years, I wonder if anyone might venture to evaluate its nature and quality. You may recognize the author, whose name I omit simply as a way to focus, if possible, on the text. It ought to be a given that the lyric as a mode has both ancient, still-living roots and a rather remarkable variety of contemporary branches, it seems to me. One point I've been circling around lately is that it is fruitless to object to any given lyric simply *because* it resembles or does not resemble another. Just as a dull subject is one that the poet has failed, a poor lyric represents an individual failure (of language, vision, honesty, clarity, or whatever), not necessarily an indictment of the mode. Which, of course, is not "a" mode at all, especially in a world where Marvin Bell and Jorie Graham can both parade under the "Iowa" banner. Naturally there are certain period styles, and by definition most poems by most of us are mediocre efforts in one or another such styles. One kind of reductiveness refuses to recognize the existence of a period style, I suppose, and makes glib appeal to universality. But another seems to want to erase all difference, then object to the result on the grounds that the poems too much resemble each other. Both approaches tend to ignore the individual poem. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: And because I can't lift the enormous weight Of this enormous night from my shoulders I need help from the six pallbearers of sleep Who rise out of the slow, vacant shadows To hoist the body into an empty coffin. I need their help to fly out of myself. I would call this formalist confessionalism, actually a pre- and post- IWP, with a touch of surrealism and the deep image school. But for me, it ultimately fails as clich?, no matter how you try to classify it, nor is it particularly original to my ear. Here's one passage that set off clich? alarms: "To flowers gasping in the dirt-small mouths Gulping for air like tiny black asthmatics Fighting their bodies, eating the wind? I need the green thumbs of a gardener." Or how's this for bad, derivative Strand? "So many blank moons, so many dead mouths Holding their breath in the shallow ground, Almost breathing. I have no idea why My own face is never among them..." Am I jaded or partly right? --CE From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
And because I can't lift the enormous weight
Of this enormous night from my shoulders
I need help from the six pallbearers of sleep
Who rise out of the slow, vacant shadows
To hoist the body into an empty coffin.
I need their help to fly out of myself.


I would call this formalist confessionalism, actually a pre- and post- IWP,<= BR> with a touch of surrealism and the deep image school.

But for me, it ultimately fails as clich=E9, no matter how you try to classi= fy
it, nor is it particularly original to my ear.

Here's one passage that set off clich=E9 alarms:

"To flowers gasping in the dirt-small mouths
Gulping for air like tiny black asthmatics
Fighting their bodies, eating the wind?
I need the green thumbs of a gardener."

Or how's this for bad, derivative Strand?

"So many blank moons, so many dead mouths
Holding their breath in the shallow ground,
Almost breathing. I have no idea why

My own face is never among them..."


Am I jaded or partly right?

--CE
_____________________________

Compared to the even flatter idiom of Hirsch's later books, this is lyrical=20= grandeur.  Look, for example, at "American Apocalypse" from The Night P= arade. --part1_1cd.1f7536db.2dc12b32_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Both hands in air, gesturing, both feet on accelerator, head turned to talk to someone in back seat: ITALY. One hand on 12 oz. double shot latte, one knee on wheel, cradling cell phone, foot on brake, mind on radio game, banging head on steering wheel while stuck in traffic: SEATTLE. One hand on wheel, one hand on hunting rifle, alternating between both feet being on the accelerator, and both feet on brake, throwing McDonald's bag out the window: TEXAS. Four-wheel drive pick-up truck, shotgun mounted in rear window, beer cans on floor, Prairie Dog tails attached to antenna: WYOMING. Two hands gripping wheel, blue hair barely visible above windshield, driving 35 mph on the Interstate, in the left lane with the left blinker on: FLORIDA. One hand on the wheel, the other on his sister: ARKANSAS. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: No matter. It was a glass of water They were going to get, But not just yet. They listen for mice in the walls, A car passing on the street, Their dead fathers shuffling past them On their way to the kitchen. --Charles Simic. *The Voice at 3:00 A.M.: Selected Late & New Poems*. Harcourt, 2003. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The poets don=E2=80=99t sing of us. They tell of Athens and Argos. Too severe, we are not easy to admire. Unmoved even by the cries=20 of our children and the bleating=20 of goats at sacrifice. If Helen had been ours, she=E2=80=99d have cut her own throat upon Paris=E2=80=99 bed, lain=20 before him a sallow lump of flesh=20 for his love. We are not heroes=E2=80=94 we=E2=80=99re soldiers. If you thirst=20 turn back your tears, the next well=20 a day=E2=80=99s march from here. --part1_27.597bb265.2decfc1a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en From Sparta

       The poets don=E2=80=99t sing of us.
       They tell of Athens and Argos.
       Too severe, we are not easy to admire.<= BR>        Unmoved even by the cries
       of our children and the bleating
       of goats at sacrifice. If Helen
       had been ours, she=E2=80=99d have cut        her own throat upon Paris=E2=80=99 bed,= lain
       before him a sallow lump of flesh
       for his love. We are not heroes=E2=80= =94
       we=E2=80=99re soldiers. If you thirst <= BR>        turn back your tears, the next well        a day=E2=80=99s march from here.= --part1_27.597bb265.2decfc1a_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Immersive reading: confronting grief at a book's end Ontological & epistemological ambiguity in Harry Potter 3: This Time it's Sirius The stuff owl gives a hoot: Bad poetry & reactionary criticism (of Simon Armitage & William Logan) Writing the transcendental pulse - Lisa Lubasch's To Tell the Lamp: New classical, post avant The problems of publishing: What's a young poet to do? http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Define difficulty any way you want, and quibble with what "most" means if you must, but when I walk into a suburban chain bookstore, say, I see shelves dominated by poets like Angelou, Olds, Rich, Snyder, Collins, Kenyon, Bly, Levine, Clifton, et al.--poets of a rather accessible stripe, for the most part. (Yes, there are usually some books by Ashbery, J. Graham & others less accessible to the common reader. But very seldom Clark Coolidge or even Bob Perelman.) My experience in teaching poetry to college students has fairly consistently been that they're often surprised they can "get" poetry, however. They bring to my classes, frequently, an expectation that poetry will be mysterious and remote to their concerns. One thing that mainstream anthologies like Keillor's or Collins's can do is undermine this notion of poetry as an arcane art; still, the attitude persists, and I'm not entirely sure why. (Oh, I have my theories, but I'm honestly not sure.) I think it's getting a little late to keep blaming Pound and other modernists for their elitism and inaccessibility to the common reader--if blame is what they even deserve. But in any case, as the career of someone like Billy Collins shows, there's a rather wide swath of contemporary poetry that doesn't resemble Eliot & Stevens in the least. Some say that's why poetry's "lost its audience" (a dubious claim), while others argue that, in order to regain the mythical lost audience current poets need to emulate the modernists more. Sure, there's plenty of obfuscation in contemporary poetry. But if you're just looking at demographics, I'd say the bulk of it is anything but. And in any case I think any "answer" to these questions probably needs to look at more recent developments than "The Waste Land" or "The Bridge; and needs to acknowledge that whatever readership poetry has right now is more dominated by poets like Lucille Clifton than, say, Leslie Scalapino. Anyway, by my lights there is plenty of memorable language and thought among contemporary poets, though as is always the case it can take some effort to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially given the explosion in publishing in the past half centry. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: -- Kay Ryan ============================== AMONG ENGLISH VERBS Kay Ryan Among English verbs *to die* is oddest in its eagerness to be *dead*, immodest in its haste to be told -- a verb alchemical in the head: one speck of its gold and a whole life's lead. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Immersive reading: confronting grief at a book?s end http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Good art, of whatever magnitude, is never replaced, but it may well be = mislaid. It is writers, I think, who are most likely to be recklessly attached, = regardless of critical orthodoxy and of their own practice, to poems not currently in = vogue. I can think of one thoroughly "experimental" poet on whom Elinor Wylie has = been a recent influence; of another given to reading aloud from Charlotte = Mew; of another who has kept me up half the night with his total recall of = Bynner's beloved Housman. And I have heard a playwright of unimpeachable contemporaneity say from memory an exquisite sonnet by Lizette Woodworth Reese. With anthologists, professors, and critics it is generally = otherwise. E. C. Stedman's American Anthology, published in 1900, had room for everyone = past or present, not excluding John Quincy Adams and Daniel Webster. But = later anthologies of our national poetry have increasingly been intended not = only for the window seat and bedside table but for the classroom desk. In = response to the views and needs of professors, many anthologists have boiled down = American poetry to the work of some fifty or sixty writers, all certifiably = major. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C4582F.A59DDCB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From his intro to the collected poems = of Witter=20 Bynner:
 

Good art, of whatever magnitude, is never = replaced, but=20 it may well be mislaid. It

is writers, I think, who are most likely to be = recklessly attached, regardless of

critical orthodoxy and of their own practice, = to poems=20 not currently in vogue. I

can think of one thoroughly =93experimental=94 = poet on whom=20 Elinor Wylie has been

a recent influence; of another given to = reading aloud=20 from Charlotte Mew; of

another who has kept me up half the night with = his total=20 recall of Bynner=92s

beloved Housman. And I have heard a playwright = of=20 unimpeachable

contemporaneity say from memory an exquisite = sonnet by=20 Lizette Woodworth

Reese. With anthologists, professors, and = critics it is=20 generally otherwise. E. C.

Stedman=92s American Anthology, = published in 1900,=20 had room for everyone past

or present, not excluding John Quincy Adams = and Daniel=20 Webster. But later

anthologies of our national poetry have = increasingly=20 been intended not only for

the window seat and bedside table but for the = classroom=20 desk. In response to the

views and needs of professors, many = anthologists have=20 boiled down American

poetry=20 to the work of some fifty or sixty writers, all certifiably major.=20
------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C4582F.A59DDCB0-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: I have built here, under the moon, A many-colored fire With fragments of wood That have been part of a tree And part of a ship. =20 Were leaves more real, Or driven nails, Or fingers of builders, Than these burning violets? Come, warm your hands From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: There's a fire under the moon. =20 That is a disciplined free-verse poem, varying narrowly between lines of = two or three stresses, and disposed in two paragraphs of seven lines each. It = is about a fire made of driftwood on a chill, gusty, and moonlit beach, and the = poet invites us to share it. The words never forsake their literal subject, and = continually render the scene more vivid to the eye: driftwood does in fact burn with many = colors, and through the mention of leaves, nails, shipbuilders' fingers, and = violets we imagine the several shapes and behaviors of the flames. But of course = the cold wind of the second line is not merely a wind: it is also "time." The = poet invites us to meditate, in the presence of a driftwood fire, on that time which = coldly destroys all things, bringing down the tallest tree and wrecking the = best-made vessel. We are asked whether the tree and the ship were "more real" than = their now burning fragments, and it is assumed that we know the answer. I = should say that Bynner is here doing a dangerous and delicate thing, since it would = be so possible to construe the whole poem as an invitation to take refuge from = a sense of temporal loss in Buddha's teaching that all things are illusory and = "on fire." But even if Grenstone Poems did not begin with a poem ("This Wave") = which says "What was ended / Has begun," and end with the poet moving forward = and upward on a Whitmanian spiritual journey, I think that "Driftwood" would = be sufficiently weighted toward another interpretation. The fire, as Bynner = describes it, is not simply the annihilation of wood fragments; even as the = wrecked ship of the poem was built of felled trees, the fire is something "built" of = ship's driftwood by the poet's hands and offered us as a warming symbolic proof = that time is not a destroyer but a perpetual renewer. Out of all change comes = new life, as in the variously colored violets of spring; we are to warm our hands = at flames in which we see the fingers of dead builders, and then turn to fresh = work; and the moon, above such a fire, is a light which forever rises and waxes again. This brief, plain-seeming, subtle poem, in which all the words prove to = be working hard, and in which the meaning seems to emerge uncoerced from = the data, is for my taste more compelling than The New World's grandiloquent assertions that "Nothing is lost," and points toward the best qualities = of Bynner's later achievements. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C4583B.C0C9C560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Come, warm your = hands

From the cold = wind of=20 time.

I have built = here, under=20 the moon,

A many-colored=20 fire

With fragments = of=20 wood

That have been = part of a=20 tree

And part of a=20 ship.

 

Were leaves = more=20 real,

Or driven=20 nails,

Or fingers of=20 builders,

Than these = burning=20 violets?

Come, warm your = hands

From the cold = wind of=20 time.

There=92s a = fire under the=20 moon.

 

That is a = disciplined=20 free-verse poem, varying narrowly between lines of two=20 or

three stresses, = and=20 disposed in two paragraphs of seven lines each. It is about=20 a

fire made of = driftwood on a=20 chill, gusty, and moonlit beach, and the poet=20 invites

us to share it. = The words=20 never forsake their literal subject, and continually=20 render

the scene more = vivid to the=20 eye: driftwood does in fact burn with many = colors,

and through the = mention of=20 leaves, nails, shipbuilders=92 fingers, and violets=20 we

imagine the = several shapes=20 and behaviors of the flames. But of course the = cold

wind of the = second line is=20 not merely a wind: it is also =93time.=94 The poet invites=20 us

to meditate, in = the=20 presence of a driftwood fire, on that time which=20 coldly

destroys all = things,=20 bringing down the tallest tree and wrecking the=20 best-made

vessel. We are = asked=20 whether the tree and the ship were =93more real=94 than = their

now burning = fragments, and=20 it is assumed that we know the answer. I should = say

that Bynner is = here doing a=20 dangerous and delicate thing, since it would be = so

possible to = construe the=20 whole poem as an invitation to take refuge from a=20 sense

of temporal = loss in=20 Buddha=92s teaching that all things are illusory and =93on=20 fire.=94

But even if = Grenstone=20 Poems did not begin with a poem (=93This Wave=94)=20 which

says =93What = was ended / Has=20 begun,=94 and end with the poet moving forward = and

upward on a = Whitmanian=20 spiritual journey, I think that =93Driftwood=94 would=20 be

sufficiently = weighted=20 toward another interpretation. The fire, as Bynner=20 describes

it, is not = simply the=20 annihilation of wood fragments; even as the wrecked ship=20 of

the poem was = built of=20 felled trees, the fire is something =93built=94 of=20 ship=92s

driftwood by = the poet=92s=20 hands and offered us as a warming symbolic proof=20 that

time is not a = destroyer but=20 a perpetual renewer. Out of all change comes new=20 life,

as in the = variously colored=20 violets of spring; we are to warm our hands at=20 flames

in which we see = the fingers=20 of dead builders, and then turn to fresh work; and=20 the

moon, above = such a fire, is=20 a light which forever rises and waxes = again.

This brief, = plain-seeming,=20 subtle poem, in which all the words prove to = be

working hard, = and in which=20 the meaning seems to emerge uncoerced from = the

data, is for my = taste more=20 compelling than The New World=92s=20 grandiloquent

assertions that = =93Nothing is=20 lost,=94 and points toward the best qualities of=20 Bynner=92s

later=20 achievements.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C4583B.C0C9C560-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights r= eserved.=20 No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in= =20 writing from the publisher. *************************************** =20 Related links: =20 About WALKING TO MARTHA'S VINEYARD: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0Wa0PFi0AS =20 About Franz Wright: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0Wa0Tua0AB =20 Send another Franz Wright poem as an e-card: http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0Wa0Tub0AC =20 Print a broadside of Franz Wright's poem "Request": http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0Wa0Tuc0AD -------------------------------1088172366 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

Below is a seasonal poem from Franz Wright, winner of t= he Pulitzer Prize in 2004 for his collection Walking to Martha's Vineyard, i= n which this poem appears.

***************************************

 

 

June Storm

 

Voices from the first dark heartshaped green of summer<= o:p>

leaves, rain;

birds'.

 

What are they called.

 

I'm leaving here, and still don't know.

 

I'm going there, though,

where they are=E2=80=94

I feel this.

 

Feel that I was there

before.

 

I felt this

as a child, and now

I know it.

 

 

 

 

 

***************************************

 

From WALKING TO MARTHA'S VINEYARD =C2=A9 2003 by Franz=20= Wright. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random Hou= se, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or r= eprinted without permission in writing from the publisher.=

***************************************

 

Related links:

 

 About WA= LKING TO MARTHA'S VINEYARD:

http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0W= a0PFi0AS

 

 About Fr= anz Wright:

http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0W= a0Tua0AB

 

 Send ano= ther Franz Wright poem as an e-card:

http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0W= a0Tub0AC

 

 Print a=20= broadside of Franz Wright's poem "Request":

http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jfOf0DXKYc0W= a0Tuc0AD

-------------------------------1088172366-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: online edition as well as the print version of the magazine. --part1_116.3459adc2.2e0e49b3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date:    Thu, 24 Jun= 2004 12:42:25 -0500
From:    Heidi Peppermint <hpmint at VERIZON.NET>
Subject: VERSE magazine's new webspace

Verse magazine is pleased to announce its new webspace at
versemag.blogspot.com

The site will feature original, online-only material (poems, book
reviews, and magazine reviews) as well as work from previous
issues, information about back issues, announcements and news,
lists of books sent for review, calls for reviewers, and links to sites/
blogs of Verse contributors.

Updated almost daily, the site will be archived monthly. New, original
material will be posted the first week of each month.

The first installment of new material will include poems by Brandon
Downing and Nathan Jones and reviews of Richard Greenfield's A
Carnage in the Lovetrees, Joanna Fuhrman's Ugh Ugh Ocean, Joy
Katz's Fabulae, Oni Buchanan's What Animal, and other books.

Previously published material currently on the site includes poems
by Arielle Greenberg and Stephen Healey and a review of Rosmarie
Waldrop's Reluctant Gravities.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: online edition as well as the print version of the magazine.
 --part1_116.3459adc2.2e0e49b3_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Glenn Sheldon's "South of Ourselves: Mexico in the Poems of Williams, Kerouac, Corso, Ginsberg, Levertov, and Hayden" (McFarland & Co., $32 paperback). In Denise Levertov and Robert Hayden, Sheldon sees two admirable anomalies. Levertov is British (but co-opted into American letters), the only poetess to address Mexico in the 1950s, and the only poet in this study who actually lived in that country. This immersion is what allows her to write about "Mexicans and their lives as complex." Hayden, an African-American with knowledge of Spanish, traveled through Mexico with the experience in matters of race and class that the Anglo writers did not have. In his sequence poem "An Inference of Mexico," he makes room on the pages for the voices of the Mexican people -- a technique none of the other writers employ. . -------------------------------1088428919 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
From a reveiw of...
Glenn Sheldon's "South of Ourselves: Mexico in the Poems of Williams, K= erouac, Corso, Ginsberg, Levertov, and Hayden" (McFarland & Co., $32 pap= erback).
 

In Denise Levertov and Robert Hayden, Sheldon sees two admirable anomalie= s.=20

Levertov is British (but co-opted into American letters), the only poetes= s to address Mexico in the 1950s, and the only poet in this study who actual= ly lived in that country. This immersion is what allows her to write about "= Mexicans and their lives as complex."=20

Hayden, an African-American with knowledge of Spanish, traveled through M= exico with the experience in matters of race and class that the Anglo writer= s did not have. In his sequence poem "An Inference of Mexico," he makes room= on the pages for the voices of the Mexican people -- a technique none of th= e other writers employ.

.

-------------------------------1088428919-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID:
Recordings of the late Carl Rakosi reading ten of his poems are available in downloadable MP3 format:

    http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/rakosi.html

The poems are:

    1. Love America, Uncle Sam Needs You
    2. Go Preach Christ
    3. The Country Singer
    4. Captain Paterson
    5. from Three Cheers for the Star Spangled Banner: A Sile= nt Movie
    6. How to be with a Rock
    7. Oh Sestina
    8. from The Old Poet's Tale
    9. To a Collie Pup
    10. In What Sense I am I

These recordings of Carl Rakosi's poems have been made available as part of<= BR> the PENNsound project. For more about PENNsound, see:

    http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/

 --part1_1d1.24e32d62.2e1607e1_boundary-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 15:58:44 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:58:44 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: by Stephen Schwartz 07/26/2004, Volume 009, Issue 43 There is probably no more chance of halting this current binge of Neruda worship than there is of banishing the cicadas, but, still, the truth does need to be said: Pablo Neruda was a bad writer and a bad man. His main public is located not in the Spanish-speaking nations but in the Anglo-European countries, and his reputation derives almost entirely from the iconic place he once occupied in politics--which is to say, he's "the greatest poet of the twentieth century" because he was a Stalinist at exactly the right moment, and not because of his poetry, which is doggerel. -------------------------------1090437954 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000= /004/328fipbb.asp

 

The Weekly Standard, July 19 2004

Bad Poet, Bad Man

From the July 26, 2004 issue: A hundred years of Pablo=20= Neruda

by Stephen Schwartz

07/26/2004, Volume 009, Issue 43

 

There is probably no more chance of halting this current bing= e of Neruda worship than there is of banishing the cicadas, but, still, the=20= truth does need to be said: Pablo Neruda was a bad writer and a bad man. His= main public is located not in the Spanish-speaking nations but in the Anglo= -European countries, and his reputation derives almost entirely from the ico= nic place he once occupied in politics--which is to say, he's "the greatest=20= poet of the twentieth century" because he was a Stalinist at exactly the rig= ht moment, and not because of his poetry, which is doggerel.

 

-------------------------------1090437954-- From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 17:27:42 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:42 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: As I did with everybody, I asked Ira about Sinatra. Ira recalled the time Sinatra phoned him to see if he would change "The Man That Got Away," written for Judy Garland in A Star Is Born, to "The Gal That Got Away" so he could sing it. Usually such opposite-sex versions of songs don't work, Ira said, but this was an exception. Sinatra pointed out that all you needed to do was change "man" to "gal," "his" to "her," and fix the ending. True enough, so I obligingly improvised an ending for him: instead of "a one-man woman" I wrote "a lost, lost loser looking for / The gal that got away." Sinatra liked the alliteration. I thought his recording was excellent, Ira concluded. But such a case of "sex transilience" is rare. Later, I thought about Ira's point and connected it with something I'd heard from the poet Carolyn Kizer, who was a teenager at the height of the Sinatra craze in the early 1940s. According to Carolyn, what the girls saw in Sinatra was his vulnerability. He had an androgynous side. If he hadn't been so thin, would the girls have loved him so much? Not on your life. He brought out the mother in them. I don't say that in singing to them, he was singing to his mother, or to his mother in them, but androgynous he was, Carolyn said. I thought about this when Ira brought up the "sex transilience" that allowed Sinatra to sing a Judy Garland song. Sinatra was always doing that. "The Girl Next Door." "I Got It Bad and That Ain't Good." A lot of guys might have shied away from singing a girl's song, like "I Could Have Danced All Night" from My Fair Lady. Sinatra made it a featured piece of his 1960s concert repertoire. And by the way, said Ira, the title of that song is "The Man That Got Away"?"that," not "who." And it's "I Got Rhythm," not "I've got rhythm." Got that? Yes, I did, and I cite it as evidence of Ira's astonishing attention to minute detail, just as the absent comma in the first line of stanza four of "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" gives evidence of Frost's expertise. (In "The woods are lovely, dark and deep," there should be no serial comma after dark, as if "dark and deep" were twin halves of one adverbial phrase modifying "lovely.") You see, Ira said, the lyricist's task is different from a poet's, and may be more difficult. It's the task of "fitting words mosaically to music already composed." I nodded my head. Having to do that with a Gershwin tune like "My One and Only" or "Fascinating Rhythm" might be the most challenging task of all, I said. And "mosaically" is such a great pun given the influence of your Jewish background. I thanked him for the word. "Don't mention it," he said, which I took to mean "you're welcome," though later when I thought about it I wondered whether he meant that phrase literally. Excerpt from A FINE ROMANCE: JEWISH SONGWRITERS, AMERICAN SONGS. Copyright ? 2009 by David Lehman. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20100424/62d83fa0/attachment.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 17:27:42 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:42 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:38 PM, amy king wrote: > I think the dude is a young editor and likely didn't even think about it. And being the annoying person I am, I decided to make him think about. I guess that's intrusive. I'm not winning any popularity contests in my attempts to point out the effects of undiagnosed, unexamined sexist bias. And I also realize that I'm only focussing on the effects of one bias - which is problematic and difficult to integrate with other considerations, but I'm going to have to figure out how to do so. I'm writing a couple of essays now, but by way of example, Juliana Spahr and Stephanie Young focused on gender in their study and report, "Numbers Trouble" and were strongly criticized for omitting race. I notice race a lot, who gets left, as well as sexuality, etc. I even notice when some US-based mags publish people from other countries bc that just doesn't happen so often. Mostly, I realize it's the short most basic way to point out sexism, but I guess I do it to get people talking and to make them aware. This editor is young; he can at least start thinking about what it means to be an editor and decide what the responsibilities of that title incur. I mean, Publisher's Weekly defense that they "just chose the best" and ended up with ten men on their top ten list of 2009 carries all sorts of weight and implies a ton of questions, even beyond 'what were their criteria'. What does this list do? Does it actually mean anything to readers? How does such a list feed into the capitalization of the literary arts, etc. How are they perpetuating obvious old-school masculine rhetoric/style/voice/viewpoint, etc? Are the 'classics' always going to by written by dead white men when we enter a classroom? And the token virginal nature lady writer? > > >But I go on. I think those journals you name attempt to be a corrective for the glaring absence of women's voices on that literary landscape. They're not remedies by any sense of the word. They are absorbed and mocked in most instances: all-women's magazine? Women's studies? Where are the men's studies? Guffaw, guffaw, guffaw. As though we haven't been studying the ideas and listening to the words that men have published for centuries. It's why domestic work doesn't strike a chord and isn't debate worthy the way Pound and Oedipus and whatever other adventurous ontological stories/poems/treaties you may cite make ears perk and brains zing with the hunt and debate of the show. Or something like that. Mixing lots of metaphors there... > > >I was listening today to James Baldwin answer "The Question" as the excerpt is so called from an interview. He responds at one point that 'white people need to figure out why they need a nigger.' In small part, he's responding to this notion that anyone would want to be ghettoized - no one wants that position when that position rings of 'lesser than' inferiority. But the *reasons* one might even be ghettoized extend much farther and deeper than the person who gets ghettoized as a result of those earlier beliefs, practices and continued enforcement, however aware or unaware the perpetrators are of enforcing such positionality. Just pointing out that there's a ghetto and that it shouldn't exist doesn't exactly fix anything. I can point out numbers all I want, but ultimately, only when people start really interrogating how those numbers came to be so skewed, so disproportionate, how did so many men get all of the publishing awards and have their books heralded and praised, etc, only then might the practices and mentalities themselves begin to change. > > >Here's the Baldwin clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDjaqhuSqQE > > >Amy > > > ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 6:16:23 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] We Are Champion > > >Almost inconceivable that this could happen by accident (or that someone would call a journal WAC). Got me thinking. I doubt that there'd be much tolerance of a journal that actually declared itself an all-male precinct. How do you feel about Calyx, How2, Kalliope, PMS, and Women's Review of Books, which do declare their bias? What about other journals defined by identity, like Ingathering and Callaloo? > >Most of these are very fine, and fortunately there's no shortage of places to publish, but the wider issue might be fun to talk about. > >Best, > >Mark > >At 05:56 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote: > >WAC Poetry Magazine Issue #2 >> >>When Issue #1 offered the work of three women (Blake Butler, Mathias Svalina, Rachel B. Glaser, Ally Harris, Adam Robinson, Jonathan Papas, Carl Annarummo, A. Minetta Gould, Christopher Higgs, Giancarlo Ditrapano), Issue #2 of ???We Are Champion??? got pissed and chose to obliterate any and all female poetics completely. >> >>Issue #2 of ???We Are Champion??? now stars the All ? Live, All- Male revue: Jimmy Chen, Chris Oklum, MMike Young, Ben Mirov, Joseph Goosey, Tyler Flynn Dorholt, Miguel Morales, Mark Leidner, Reynard Seifert, and an interview with Ben Marcus. >> >>p.s. The We Are Champs??? editor has changed the contributors??? names to mislead & protect the innocent (of course, into women???s names). Now that is WAC! >> >> >>My response (updated) -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/im-just-being-a-bitch-again/ >> >>Contributor responds -- http://mikeayoung.blogspot.com/2010/04/theres-first-for-every-flugelhorn.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > >"Not since the 1982 publication of Paul Auster's Random House Book of Twentieth Century French Poetry has a bilingual anthology so effectively broadened the sense of poetic terrain outside the United States and also created a superb collection of foreign poems in English. There is nothing else like it." John Palattella in The Nation > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20100429/4f6871e0/attachment-0001.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 17:27:42 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:42 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Over the years, I had read too many essays by literary critics and even poets, which proclaimed confidently that poetry is universally despised and read by practically no one in United States. I recall my literature students rolling their eyes when I asked them if they liked poetry, or my old high school friends becoming genuinely alarmed upon learning that I still did. Patriotic, sentimental and greeting card verse has always been tolerated, but the kind of stuff modern poets write allegedly offends every one of those ?real Americans? Sarah Palin kept praising in the last election. During the time I served as the poet laureate, however, I found this not to be true. In a country in which schools seem to teach less literature every year, where fewer people read books and ignorance reigns supreme regarding most issues, poetry is read and written more than ever. Anyone who doesn?t believe me ought to take a peek at what?s available on the web. Who are these people who seem determined to copy almost every poem ever written in the language? Where do they find the time to do it? No wonder we have such a large divorce rate in this country. I won?t even describe the thousands of blogs, the on-line poetry magazines, both serious ones and the ones where anyone can post a poem their eight-year daughter wrote about the death of her goldfish. People who kept after me with their constant emails and letters were part of that world. They wanted me to announce what I propose to do to make poetry even more popular in United States. Unlike my predecessors who had a lot of clever ideas, like having a poetry anthology next to the Gideon Bible in every motel room in America (Joseph Brodsky), or urging daily newspapers to print poems (Robert Pinsky), I felt things were just fine. As far as I could see, there was more poetry being read and written than at any time in our history. The obvious next question is how much of it is any good? More than one would ever imagine. America may be going to hell in every other way, but fine poems continue to be written now and then. Still, if poetry is being written and being read now more than ever, it must be because it fulfills a profound need. Where else but in poems would these Americans, who unlike their neighbors seem unwilling to seek salvation in church, convey their human predicament? Where else would they find a community of likeminded souls who care about something Emily Dickinson or Billy Collins has written? If I were asked to sum up my experience as the poet laureate, I would say, there?s nothing more interesting or more hopeful about America than its poetry. --Charles Simic ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20100430/3fa33829/attachment.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 17:27:42 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:42 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Search for old favorites with memorable lines. Give your phone a shake to discover new poems to fit any mood. Save your favorite poems to read and share later?through Facebook, Twitter, or e-mail. Read poems by T.S. Eliot, Pablo Neruda, Lucille Clifton, Emily Dickinson, and many others. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/iphone ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20100521/2dd43e00/attachment.html From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Jan 22 17:27:42 2011 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:42 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Dear Reader, When William Carlos Williams wrote the lines above, I don't think he meant them literally--as if a poem a day could keep the doctor away. What he meant, I think, was that poetry can make our daily existence mean more to us." Good to have that cleared up. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20100526/f80b725e/attachment.html From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 23 11:36:54 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:36:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch Message-ID: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Jan 23 12:07:59 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:07:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I'll pass it on. - Jim On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: > http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 23 14:03:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:03:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D3C7B6B.6040105@nut-n-but.net> Thanks from me, too, Alex. I copied it into my blog entry for today--it's that important to every artist! --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jan 23 14:04:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:04:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Who would submit to a journal that doesn't request that we send only our best work? Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: > http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Jan 23 14:21:30 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:21:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Believe it or not, I finally laughed, after six months or so ... thus the JofUR is quite good, I'd say. On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Who would submit to a journal that doesn't > request that we send only our best work? > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > >> I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: >> http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 23 15:09:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 15:09:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D3C8B0A.7060206@nut-n-but.net> On 1/23/2011 2:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Who would submit to a journal that doesn't > request that we send only our best work? > > Hal > > As for me, I'm reserving /my /work for /peer/-rejection. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koshin at centurytel.net Sun Jan 23 12:23:24 2011 From: koshin at centurytel.net (Bob Hanson) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:23:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006b01cbbb22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> Must be connected to Amazon, B&N and others, very funny thanks peace, ko shin, Bob Hanson Ko shin's Blogs: http://chasingwindmillswhynot.blogspot.com/ June 2010: http://adharmabumreportingfromnaropa.blogspot.com/ Face Book: Bob koshin Hanson Tweeter: 1940oldman 920 293 8856 Home 414 234 0954 Cell skype 920 240 4325 Added June 3, 2010: FACT: More peace activists were killed on 31-May-2010, than Israelis have been killed, by Gaza rockets, in 10 years Tweeter on this day seeker of truth by e. e. cummings seeker of truth follow no path all paths lead where truth is here "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." ~ Desmund Tutu. Without compassion, what hope? Q: Is there any cause for optimism? A: Well, personally, yeah. Everybody's got a life to lead and they've got a bodhisattva tendency, everybody wants to do good, so I just think on a personal level, yeah. On a larger scale, there doesn't seem to be any hope unless compassion becomes a more widespread important teaching on how to live. Compassion to self and others.?Allen Ginsberg, from "Spontaneous Intelligence: An Interview with Allen Ginsberg," Tricycle, Fall 1995 There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels. Dhammapada 1.6 From: new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu] On Behalf Of James Cervantes Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:08 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] online journal watch Thanks. I'll pass it on. - Jim On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com Sun Jan 23 19:43:17 2011 From: chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com (chris murray) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:43:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "word being born" on invisible notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice cm On 12/30/10, Peter ciccariello wrote: > "word being born" on invisible notes - http://tinyurl.com/nwceb5 > > > > > > > > -- Peter Ciccariello > From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 23 20:09:29 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:09:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] desk is destiny Message-ID: <8CD897A7C605480-1258-1976A@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> I have a new desk. Second desk in my adult life. Very simple, mission-style, but well-built...to which I have added two bookshelves. In the process of removing my old desk and installing a new one, approx. 200 books were displaced and then rearranged. I'm a very happy person. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Jan 23 20:20:57 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:20:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: <006b01cbbb22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <006b01cbbb22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> Message-ID: This is very funny. On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Bob Hanson wrote: > Must be connected to Amazon, B&N and others, very funny thanks > > > > *peace, ko shin, Bob Hanson* > > *Ko shin's Blogs: http://chasingwindmillswhynot.blogspot.com/*** > > *June 2010: http://adharmabumreportingfromnaropa.blogspot.com/* > > *Face Book: Bob koshin Hanson* > > *Tweeter: 1940oldman* > > *920 293 8856 Home 414 234 0954 Cell skype 920 240 4325* > > * * > > *Added June 3, 2010: FACT: More peace activists were killed on > 31-May-2010, than Israelis have been killed, by Gaza rockets, in 10 years > Tweeter on this day*** > > * * > > *seeker of truth** **by e. e. cummings > * > > *seeker of truth **follow no path > all paths lead where* *truth is here* > > *"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side > of the oppressor." > ~ Desmund Tutu.* > > *Without compassion, what hope? **Q: Is there any cause for optimism? > A: Well, personally, yeah. Everybody's got a life to lead and they've got a > bodhisattva tendency, everybody wants to do good, so I just think on a > personal level, yeah. On a larger scale, there doesn't seem to be any hope > unless compassion becomes a more widespread important teaching on how to > live. Compassion to self and others.?Allen Ginsberg, from "Spontaneous > Intelligence: An Interview with Allen Ginsberg," **Tricycle**, Fall 1995** > * > > There are those who do not realize > > that one day we all must die. > > But those who do realize this > > settle their quarrels. > > > > Dhammapada 1.6 > > > > > > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *James Cervantes > *Sent:* Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:08 AM > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] online journal watch > > > > Thanks. I'll pass it on. > > > > - Jim > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Alexander Dickow > wrote: > > I just found a very prestigious journal to which you all should submit: > > http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/#subscriptions > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_tuney at yahoo.com Sun Jan 23 22:26:59 2011 From: brian_tuney at yahoo.com (Brian Hawkins) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:26:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <195267.77390.qm@web34206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I mostly compose my poems while running or walking, speaking them into a digital voice recorder as I go.? Later I transcribe them and work on them on the page, as well as in my head.? Before I bought the voice recorder, if I made up a poem while running, I had to compose the whole thing in my head, as well as remembering the bits I had already composed - an iterative process which made for shorter, more organic poems. Brian? --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Crisman Cooley wrote: From: Crisman Cooley Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Received: Saturday, 22 January, 2011, 3:24 AM I'm gathering info for an article about the influence of sound recording technologies on poetry. I'm especially interested in movement away from the page back to sound. So I'm wondering, have any on the list used sound recording in composing poems? Have you heard of anyone who does? Thanks.? Crisman -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 05:29:02 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:29:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] desk is destiny In-Reply-To: <8CD897A7C605480-1258-1976A@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD897A7C605480-1258-1976A@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: :-) that is nice. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:09 AM, wrote: > I have a new desk. Second desk in my adult life. Very simple, > mission-style, but well-built...to which I have added two bookshelves. In > the process of removing my old desk and installing a new one, approx. 200 > books were displaced and then rearranged. I'm a very happy person. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 06:39:35 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:39:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <006b01cbbb22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> Message-ID: from the author of the JofUR, Caleb Emmons: Cubist poet Pierre Reverdy defined poetry as *?cristaux d?pos?s apr?s l'effervescent contact de l'esprit avec la r?alit?.?* I like to riff on this definition and define math poetry as *?crystals deposited after the effervescent contact of the spirit with mathematics.?*To me, an idealized math poem perfectly captures the kernel of some mathematical topic. The completed poem is crystalline, perfect, dead. http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/index.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 07:09:58 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 04:09:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: <4D3C8B0A.7060206@nut-n-but.net> References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D3C8B0A.7060206@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I used to think that Bad Poetry was bad enough for me. Now, here comes something that suits me better ( or, is it "worse"?). -- Obododimma. On Sunday, January 23, 2011, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > > > On 1/23/2011 2:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Who would > submit to a journal that doesn't > request that we > send only our best work? > > > > > Hal > > > > > > > > > As for me, I'm reserving my work for peer-rejection. > > --Bob > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From obodooha at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 07:11:09 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 04:11:09 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <006b01cbbb22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> Message-ID: I used to think that Bad Poetry was bad enough for me. Now, here comes something that s On Sunday, January 23, 2011, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > > > ? ? On 1/23/2011 2:04 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > ? ? Who would > ? ? ? ? ? submit to a journal that doesn't > ? ? ? request that we > ? ? ? ? ? ? send only our best work? > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? Hal > > > > > > > > > ? ? As for me, I'm reserving my work for peer-rejection. > > ? ? --Bob > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 10:11:10 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:11:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] online journal watch In-Reply-To: References: <683766.45549.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><006b01cbb b22$3e8de580$bba9b080$@net> Message-ID: <4D3D968E.90309@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 6:39 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > from the author of the JofUR, Caleb Emmons: > > Cubist poet Pierre Reverdy defined poetry as /?cristaux d?pos?s apr?s > l'effervescent contact de l'esprit avec la r?alit?.?/ > I like to riff on this definition and define math poetry as /?crystals > deposited after the effervescent contact of the spirit with > mathematics.?/ To me, an idealized math poem perfectly captures the > kernel of some mathematical topic. The completed poem is crystalline, > perfect, dead. > > http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/index.html > The definition is pure philogushy, but thanks, anyway, Annie. I need to get in touch with Caleb, who seems to be in my field, possibly even to the extent that he fails to accept the idea that math poetry is to real poetry as two men kicking a tin can is to baseball. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Jan 24 11:33:20 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:33:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Message-ID: Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know people's work better. Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that poetry today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, maybe under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself embodies the solution. If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the body? I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading (actors are best) you can use a device. This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that shortly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 11:37:17 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:37:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Or Bach. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sound is a crutch. Ask Beethoven about that. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know >> people's work better. >> >> Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that poetry >> today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, >> read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, maybe >> under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to >> clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here >> http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself >> embodies the solution. >> >> If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the >> body? >> >> I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been >> struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out >> loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the >> physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between >> mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a >> poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video >> recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. >> Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is >> conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words >> sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading >> (actors are best) you can use a device. >> >> This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that >> shortly. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 11:36:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:36:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sound is a crutch. Ask Beethoven about that. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know > people's work better. > > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that poetry > today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, > read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, maybe > under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to > clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here > http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself > embodies the solution. > > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the > body? > > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out > loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the > physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between > mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a > poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video > recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. > Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is > conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words > sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading > (actors are best) you can use a device. > > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that > shortly. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 24 13:15:27 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:15:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Maria Mazziotti Gillan is recipient of 2011 Barnes & Noble Writers for Writers Award from Poets & Writers In-Reply-To: <4101B1FE0324D548B4795FB8FD30FE2AD04DC9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> References: <4101B1FE0324D548B4795FB8FD30FE2AD04DC9@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> Message-ID: <8CD8A09D00CF6C7-1B20-7642@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:59 AM To: Undisclosed recipients Subject: Maria Mazziotti Gillan is recipient of 2011 Barnes & Noble Writers for Writers Award from Poets & Writers We are pleased to announce that Maria Mazziotti Gillan is a recipient of the 2011 Barnes & Noble Writers for Writers Award. She will be presented with this award ? along with John Grisham, Elizabeth Nunez, and recipient of the Editor?s Award, Jonathan Galassi -- at a Poets & Writers? benefit dinner on March 2. The Writers for Writers Award was established by Poets & Writers in 1996 to recognize authors who have given generously to other writers or to the broader literary community. Past recipients of the Barnes & Noble Writers for Writers Award include: Edward Albee, Judy Blume, Mary Higgins Clark, E.L. Doctorow, Junot D?az, Stephen King, Barbara Kingsolver, Maxine Hong Kingston, Wally Lamb, Walter Mosley, Susan Sontag, and Amy Tan. The Editor?s Award was established in 2009, and has been awarded to Daniel Halpern and Pat Strachan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 13:42:57 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:42:57 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bach goes with crutch. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Or Bach. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Sound is a crutch. Ask Beethoven about that. >> >> Hal >> >> "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation >> suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals >> how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." >> >> --E. M. Cioran >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: >> >>> Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know >>> people's work better. >>> >>> Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that >>> poetry today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the >>> page, read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, >>> maybe under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images >>> to clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here >>> http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself >>> embodies the solution. >>> >>> If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the >>> body? >>> >>> I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been >>> struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out >>> loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the >>> physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between >>> mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a >>> poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video >>> recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. >>> Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is >>> conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words >>> sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading >>> (actors are best) you can use a device. >>> >>> This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that >>> shortly. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 24 14:18:47 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:18:47 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual phenomenon? 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: why? c On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know > people's work better. > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that poetry > today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, > read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, maybe > under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to > clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here > http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed ? ?Though I don't think Merwin himself > embodies the solution. > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the > body? > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out > loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the > physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between > mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a > poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video > recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. > Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is > conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words > sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading > (actors are best) you can use a device. > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that > shortly. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 14:32:07 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:32:07 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: > > 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading > poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of > those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual > phenomenon? > > 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: why? > > c > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Crisman Cooley > wrote: > > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know > > people's work better. > > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that > poetry > > today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, > > read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, > maybe > > under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to > > clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here > > http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself > > embodies the solution. > > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the > > body? > > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been > > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out > > loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the > > physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between > > mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If > a > > poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a > video > > recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them > physical. > > Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is > > conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the > words > > sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people > reading > > (actors are best) you can use a device. > > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that > > shortly. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 14:35:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:35:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3DD479.6080706@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 11:33 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to > know people's work better. > > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that > poetry today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on > the page, read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic > referents, maybe under influence of media, are primarily visual, > leading sound images to clank and clatter behind. Merwin says > something similar here http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I > don't think Merwin himself embodies the solution. > > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in > the body? I'm fine with words stirring the air, but I think the proposition that they must do that to "emerge from . . . the body" a little narrow-minded. To each his own. > > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words > out loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical > for the physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big > difference between mental words and physical words, mental writing and > physical writing. If a poet does not have actors to speak the words, > the next best thing is a video recording of reading the words. That is > another way of making them physical. Reading them out loud to yourself > doesn't do it because the sound is conducted through bones in your > head and doesn't give an idea how the words sound to other people. So, > if you don't have access to other people reading (actors are best) you > can use a device. > > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that > shortly. > I find my mental voice sufficient for appreciation of the verbal effects you're speaking of. Sure, nice to hear other voices just as calligraphy is visually nice, but minor. What most counts for me is the conceptual effect of words, multiplied by metaphor, but necessarily sensual as well since metaphors depend on sensual images of some kind. To end this lesson as unpleasantly as possible, I will now reveal what needs to be understood for an intelligent discussion of the value of sound in poetry: that there are three levels of sound possible in poetry: 1. verbal sound, or the sound all words have when pronounced 2. enhanced verbal sound, or the sound some words can have when employed melodationally--that is, in rhyme, alliteration, and the like 3. averbal sound, or the sound metaphorically interacting with words to produce sound poetry (rather than accompanying it only, as music often does) Wilshberians, of course, can ignore no. 3. --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 24 14:37:39 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:37:39 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nor did I maintain that it must. But for the great many poets who do (or who claim to) intend their poems be read aloud as well as the many who read poetry aloud, the questions remain relevant. c On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. > Hal > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > how dearly we must pay for the invention of??speech." > > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? --E. M. Cioran > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: >> >> 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading >> poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of >> those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual >> phenomenon? >> >> 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: why? >> >> c >> >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Crisman Cooley >> wrote: >> > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know >> > people's work better. >> > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that >> > poetry >> > today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the >> > page, >> > read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, >> > maybe >> > under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to >> > clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here >> > http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed ? ?Though I don't think Merwin himself >> > embodies the solution. >> > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in >> > the >> > body? >> > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been >> > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words >> > out >> > loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the >> > physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference >> > between >> > mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If >> > a >> > poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a >> > video >> > recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them >> > physical. >> > Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is >> > conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the >> > words >> > sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people >> > reading >> > (actors are best) you can use a device. >> > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that >> > shortly. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 14:59:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:59:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3DDA38.8010207@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 2:32 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. > > Hal Phooey, we aren't even through the first month of this new year yet and here's Hal, saying something I agree with. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Jan 24 15:12:40 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:12:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Message-ID: > > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:36:22 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing > poems? > > Sound is a crutch. Ask Beethoven about that. > > Hal > > He's dead. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 15:29:34 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:29:34 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's such a variety with breaks, but in general, poets fascinated by meter and rhyme in service of plain-speech-like effects in performance de-emphasize breaks in performance, because that's the point. There are so many ways and reasons to break free verse and non-verse poetry -- variety -- but there are certainly some who emphasize sound in performance rather than breaks, and some (especially those with a great deal of acting experience) who effectively use THE PAUSE. May not have much to do with what's in print. I mostly see visual breaks in poems written by beginning students of poetry. The sort of, "it is not a quatrain/couplet/sonnet, but looks like one on the page" vestige -- but these traits seem to mostly come from trying to write something that screams POEM without having a lot of exposure to them. I think this is completely different from "ghost of meter." I also suggest that "stage poetry", largely written by beginning students of poetry, has very different breath-based breaks than, oh, Beat poetry. However, you'll also hear performances in service of sound effects, including rhymes, wherever in the "performance notes" those rhymes might occur. The rhymes become apparent breaks. Recalling evil open mike nights in Orange County, or thinking of the Nuyorican, what immediately rises to my memory is the number of poems which foregrounded breath, breathing, mimetic sounds, interjections. Cris, check out some of the recent WOMPO discussion on this. I think most of that list does read aloud at some point in composition, but it is more rare to record and play back. If I had more time, I would think more about call and response within a poem that's being read, conceptual poems (most of which require virtuoso performance), poems with a more dialogic quality. Catherine On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: > > 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading > poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of > those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual > phenomenon? > > 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: why? > > c > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 15:31:38 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:31:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't think you did say that, Chris. Just wanted to make the point that it's enough for a poem to present itself to the inner ear. On the other hand, writing poems that are both unhearable and unsayable can also be interesting. E.E. Cummings did quite a few of those. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Nor did I maintain that it must. But for the great many poets who do > (or who claim to) intend their poems be read aloud as well as the many > who read poetry aloud, the questions remain relevant. > > c > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. > > Hal > > "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation > > suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals > > how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." > > > > --E. M. Cioran > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > > Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other > > Sonnets; > > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> > >> I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: > >> > >> 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading > >> poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of > >> those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual > >> phenomenon? > >> > >> 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: > why? > >> > >> c > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Crisman Cooley > > >> wrote: > >> > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to > know > >> > people's work better. > >> > Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that > >> > poetry > >> > today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the > >> > page, > >> > read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, > >> > maybe > >> > under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images > to > >> > clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here > >> > http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin > himself > >> > embodies the solution. > >> > If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in > >> > the > >> > body? > >> > I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been > >> > struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words > >> > out > >> > loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for > the > >> > physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference > >> > between > >> > mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. > If > >> > a > >> > poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a > >> > video > >> > recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them > >> > physical. > >> > Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is > >> > conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the > >> > words > >> > sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people > >> > reading > >> > (actors are best) you can use a device. > >> > This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that > >> > shortly. > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 15:32:05 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:32:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not by a long shot. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:36:22 -0600 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing >> poems? >> >> Sound is a crutch. Ask Beethoven about that. >> >> Hal >> >> > > He's dead. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 15:43:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:43:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3DE47D.7080200@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 2:18 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I'm interested in this topic in various flavors, but I always wonder: > > 1) how do poets who don't make the line breaks clear when reading > poems out loud-- and many, many do not-- justify the placement of > those breaks (if they bother to do so)? Is it purely a visual > phenomenon? > > 2) how many poets even intend their work to be read aloud? And if so: why? > > c I try to pause at the ends of the lines of my linguexpressive poems but when nervous can at times forget to. I think poems are generally read (but heard) much more than only heard, and that line-breaks and other kinds of flow-breaks will work on the page almost automatically. I prefer my poems to be read, if read by people intelligent enough not to speed-read them. But certainly reciting them will add something to them. The best experience of a poem would be to read it, then hear it recited while reading it. Unless you've got it memorized when hearing it. --Bob From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon Jan 24 16:50:59 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:50:59 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Message-ID: Depends on what you mean by hearing. I am guessing that you mean the voice/s in your head can reproduce sound in your imagination? The poem as a pure mental activity. Truly, an amazing feat. Think Stevens. Think Ashbery. For vitality, however, the imagination requires sensual stimulation. I don't mean hearing as a metaphor, but as a sense. Hearing as sensual. Vocal chords beating the air, the air conducting sound to a listener's ear drum, which begins to move in sympathetic vibration with that voice, carrying those vibrations to the nervous system, which sends the sound reverberating through the body. A poem in its sensual aspect is an extension of song and dance. This is Ezra's idea--a bridge spanning the chasm of post-modern intellectual quandary (from the Enlightenment Quandary, from the Christian Quandary, from the Platonic Quandary). Poetry too long absent from its sensual aspect (I believe) becomes anemic, ghastly, solipsistic, doomed for a certain term to walk the night, vacuous, alienating, boring, meaningless--ripe, that is, for use in advertising. I'm so happy to have loved Cage and Duchamp in my 20's. Having embodied the lessons they had to teach (not that they served them up as lessons--far from it), I can avoid mistakes others continue to make http://jacketmagazine.com/40/freind-johnson-day.shtml . And I am (relatively) free to create something new, beginning with something ancient. The cosmic background radiation receiver. Vessel of divine immanence. Innocent and much maligned lump of flesh. The body. > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing > poems? > > To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. > > Hal > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 17:10:49 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:10:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know what you mean, Cris. And I've heard plenty of anemic poetry read aloud. Believe me. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Depends on what you mean by hearing. > > I am guessing that you mean the voice/s in your head can reproduce sound in > your imagination? The poem as a pure mental activity. Truly, an amazing > feat. Think Stevens. Think Ashbery. For vitality, however, the imagination > requires sensual stimulation. > > I don't mean hearing as a metaphor, but as a sense. Hearing as sensual. > Vocal chords beating the air, the air conducting sound to a listener's ear > drum, which begins to move in sympathetic vibration with that voice, > carrying those vibrations to the nervous system, which sends the sound > reverberating through the body. A poem in its sensual aspect is an extension > of song and dance. This is Ezra's idea--a bridge spanning the chasm of > post-modern intellectual quandary (from the Enlightenment Quandary, from the > Christian Quandary, from the Platonic Quandary). Poetry too long absent from > its sensual aspect (I believe) becomes anemic, ghastly, solipsistic, doomed > for a certain term to walk the night, vacuous, alienating, boring, > meaningless--ripe, that is, for use in advertising. > > I'm so happy to have loved Cage and Duchamp in my 20's. Having embodied the > lessons they had to teach (not that they served them up as lessons--far from > it), I can avoid mistakes others continue to make > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/freind-johnson-day.shtml . And I am > (relatively) free to create something new, beginning with something > ancient. The cosmic background radiation receiver. Vessel of divine > immanence. Innocent and much maligned lump of flesh. The body. > > > > >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry List >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing >> poems? >> >> To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. >> >> Hal >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 18:23:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:23:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3E09FB.4010700@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 4:50 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Depends on what you mean by hearing. > I think it could be tested, perhaps has been: have someone read the way I read poetry--by pronouncing it with my tongue and vocal cords just short of making actual sounds abd determine with a cat scan what parts of the brain light up--I am sure one's auditory center will, albeit not as much as it would if I read aloud. Whatever one's internal voice is, it's not imaginary. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 19:10:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:10:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: <4D3E09FB.4010700@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D3E09FB.4010700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D3E14EA.1000905@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 6:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/24/2011 4:50 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: >> Depends on what you mean by hearing. >> > I think it could be tested, perhaps has been: have someone read the > way I read poetry--by pronouncing it with my tongue and vocal cords > just short of making actual sounds abd determine with a cat scan what > parts of the brain light up--I am sure one's auditory center will, > albeit not as much as it would if I read aloud. Audioverbal center, that is--as well as the speech center. The primary auditory area will probably light up some, too. Prof. Bob From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 19:19:55 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:19:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: <4D3DDA38.8010207@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D3DDA38.8010207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Sorry about that, Bob. I'll recant that immediately. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/24/2011 2:32 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > To be heard, a poem need not be read aloud. > > Hal > > Phooey, we aren't even through the first month of this new year yet and > here's Hal, saying something I agree with. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 19:31:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:31:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: <4D3DDA38.8010207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D3E19F2.1010505@nut-n-but.net> On 1/24/2011 7:19 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sorry about that, Bob. I'll recant that immediately. > > Hal No, no, Hal--you recanted the last time this happened. My turn now. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 24 19:43:28 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:43:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] F. A. Nettelack, 1950 - 2011. In-Reply-To: References: <4D3DDA38.8010207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D3E1CB0.1080900@nut-n-but.net> Another Non-Wilshberian who never got the recognition he deserved. Read about him here: http://news.santacruz.com/2011/01/24/f._a._nettelbeck_outlaw_poet I've known his work for a long time. The skull he kicked around and called poetry was quite different from the one I kicked around, but I admired his work. I hope I mentioned it in at least one of my reviews. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 24 21:00:23 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:00:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] schwabsky on the grand piano Message-ID: <8CD8A4AC33773A8-F84-2BB4F@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> The following is the first substantial review of The Grand Piano since its completion with Part X in 2010. To begin with, I will cite it in sections; I will comment on specific issues raised in the review, once it has been seen more generally. *** Published on The Nation (http://www.thenation.com) Vanishing Points: Language Poetry Remembered Barry Schwabsky | January 12, 2011 http://barrettwatten.net/texts/document-12-1-grand-piano-review/2011/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 24 21:26:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:26:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD8A4E6A5162BE-F84-2C09A@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get into verse the poems that I am going to read, and that is why I will not read them as if they were prose. ?W. B. Yeats, introducing his poems in a 1932 recording, Poetry on Record: 98 Poets Read Their Work, 1888-2006 (Shout! Factory, 2006) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Mon Jan 24 23:16:08 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:16:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: <8CD8A4E6A5162BE-F84-2C09A@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8A4E6A5162BE-F84-2C09A@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <493700.28870.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Not to be persnickety, but it was actually William Morris who said this. Yeats repeated it when explaining his reading style. By the way, what do you all think of Yeats' reading style? (If you've heard his recordings, that is.) I still haven't made up my mind about it. John J ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 9:26:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get into verse the poems that I am going to read, and that is why I will not read them as if they were prose. ?W. B. Yeats, introducing his poems in a 1932 recording,Poetry on Record: 98 Poets Read Their Work, 1888-2006 (Shout! Factory, 2006) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 06:21:22 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:21:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] CHEESE for a Public Bite Message-ID: "The emergence of computer technology has further given the photographer the opportunity to be more and more creative with photographs as modes of speaking. These days when it is possible for a photographer to excise the bust of a public figure and superimpose it on the body of a donkey, or to clean up an image of a face terribly ruined by chicken pox, is the rhetoric of the photographic image indeed not some cheese for someone's bite?" Read the full text of "CHEESE for a Public Bite" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5665539-182/story.csp -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nic_sebastian at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 08:18:10 2011 From: nic_sebastian at hotmail.com (Nic Sebastian) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:18:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "And I begin to see that there is a big difference between mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing." Yep. It's fascinating indeed, and a real phenomenon. Nic Sebastian Whale Sound Very Like A Whale Voice Alpha Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:33:20 -0800 From: ccooley at overdomain.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know people's work better. Tipping my hand. I have a criticism, not original or uncommon, that poetry today is a page phenomenon-- composed on the page, published on the page, read (silently) on the page, rarely becoming sound. Poetic referents, maybe under influence of media, are primarily visual, leading sound images to clank and clatter behind. Merwin says something similar here http://vimeo.com/17553900#embed Though I don't think Merwin himself embodies the solution. If the words never stir the air, how can they emerge from anywhere in the body? I've been writing plays exclusively for the past 5 years and have been struck by how the play must be recomposed as soon as I hear the words out loud and see them acted out. The words need to be made physical for the physical space. And I begin to see that there is a big difference between mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing. If a poet does not have actors to speak the words, the next best thing is a video recording of reading the words. That is another way of making them physical. Reading them out loud to yourself doesn't do it because the sound is conducted through bones in your head and doesn't give an idea how the words sound to other people. So, if you don't have access to other people reading (actors are best) you can use a device. This is a kind of a first step toward a poetics of sound. More on that shortly. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 09:52:55 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:52:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? In-Reply-To: <493700.28870.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8A4E6A5162BE-F84-2C09A@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> <493700.28870.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Fortunately, there are many, many things one needn't make up one's mind about. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:16 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > Not to be persnickety, but it was actually William Morris who said this. > Yeats repeated it when explaining his reading style. > > By the way, what do you all think of Yeats' reading style? (If you've > heard his recordings, that is.) I still haven't made up my mind about it. > > John J > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 9:26:32 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? > > > It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get into verse the poems that I > am going to read, and that is why I will not read them as if they were > prose. > > ?W. B. Yeats, introducing his poems in a 1932 recording,* Poetry on > Record: 98 Poets Read Their Work, 1888-2006* (Shout! Factory, 2006) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue Jan 25 11:53:00 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:53:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? Message-ID: I love imitating Yeats. Pound is even more hilarious. > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:16:08 -0800 (PST) > From: John Jeffrey > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing > poems? > > By the way, what do you all think of Yeats' reading style? (If you've > heard his > recordings, that is.) I still haven't made up my mind about it. > > John J > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Tue Jan 25 12:07:53 2011 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:07:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70C057C9-D92C-48E9-8BBB-DACBC4658D0B@sprintmail.com> chiming after a long rest note: What did Yeats say that Willliam Morris really said. Certainly like to use sounds in composing poems: Except this: the drunk eventually takes a piss. Steam rises from the hot, withheld stream? HiSSSsssssss the stream Re-covers/ Re- Surges into stuck-River flow. The boat can go. Naturally, Charon breathes his gustiest sigh, Wheeeeeeew! Sweet relief. > > > > "And I begin to see that there is a big difference between mental words and physical words, mental writing and physical writing." > Yep. It's fascinating indeed, and a real phenomenon. > > Nic Sebastian > > Whale Sound > Very Like A Whale > Voice Alpha > > > > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:33:20 -0800 > From: ccooley at overdomain.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? > > Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know people's work better. > > > Fortunately, there are many, many things one > needn't make up one's mind about. > > Hal > > "A sud >> >> John J >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 9:26:32 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? >> >> >> It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get into verse the poems that I >> am going to read, and that is why I will not read them as if they were >> prose. >> >> ?W. B. Yeats, introducing his poems in a 1932 recording,* Poetry on >> Record: 98 Poets Read Their Work, 1888-2006* (Shout! Factory, 2006) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jan 25 17:50:32 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:50:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Birds LLC at Stain! Boehl~Browning~Gabbert~Marks~Pettit~Starkweather~Tonelli Message-ID: <572878.98285.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Happy New Year, friends! The new co-curators of The Stain of Poetry Reading Series, Steven Karl, Erika Moya and Christie Ann Reynolds welcome you to the first reading of the 2011 seaso?n. Even though we've been hosting for the last few months, we've officially been stamped with our new title and hope that you are in our company when we celebrate. We decided to kick off the season and warm your winter blues with a migration of poets. Some have moved away, some still live on the east coast?either way, they're coming home to roost at Goodbye Blue Monday. Don't miss this Friday and an opportunity to get your cold little hands on two hot new books. Read on dear winter reader....read on for all of the fantastic news... Your co-curators in crime, Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds PS: ex-curators Amy King & Ana Bozicevic continue to keep busy with their online journal esque (keep an eye out for the new issue in February!), and you'll continue to hear from Ana about poetry programs & initiatives at the CUNY Graduate Center. ~ Dan Boehl ~ Sommer Browning ~ Elisa Gabbert ~ Justin Marks ~ Emily Pettit ~ Sampson Starkweather & Chris Tonelli 7 PM on January 28th @ Goodbye Blue Monday ? Bushwick, Brooklyn Birds, LLC flocks to NYC for the Stain of Poetry reading series. Join us, Friday, January 28th, 7 o'clock at Goodbye Blue Monday, Bushwick, Brooklyn for a reading and book release party! Introducing Sommer Browning's Either Way I'm Celebrating and Dan Boehl's Kings of the F**king Sea. Readers include Dan Boehl, Sommer Browning, Elisa Gabbert, Justin Marks, Emily Pettit, Sampson Starkweather, and Chris Tonelli. So many birds you'll think you're in Audubon Magazine! Wear your feathers! If you can't make the reading, you should visit the Birds, LLC website and order their books here: http://www.birdsllc.com/. First 100 copies of Either Way I'm Celebrating and Kings of the F**king Sea include temporary tattoos! Readers? Bios: Dan Boehl?sbook Kings of the F**king Sea is available from Birds, LLC. It is about art, pirates, and Spiderman 3. His chapbook Les Miseres et les Mal-Heurs de la Guerre is available from Greying Ghost. He writes art reviews in Austin and works for the University of Texas. Sommer Browningis the author of Either Way I?m Celebrating (Birds, LLC), a collection of poems and comics. In 2008, she and Tony Mancus founded the hand bound chapbook press Flying Guillotine. Her drawings, poems and reviews can be found in Octopus, The New York Quarterly, Drunken Boat, Typo and on Friendster. She rides a Segway in Denver where she co-hosts the Bad Shadow Affair reading series with Julia Cohen. Visit her Asthma Chronicles (http://asthmachronicles.com/). Elisa Gabbertis the poetry editor of Absent and the author of The French Exit (Birds LLC) and Thanks for Sending the Engine (Kitchen Press). Her recent poems can be found in Denver Quarterly, Everyday Genius, and Sentence, and recent nonfiction in Mantis, Open Letters Monthly, and The Monkey & the Wrench: Essays into Contemporary Poetics. Justin Markswrites marketing copy for god. His first book is A Million in Prizes (New Issues, 2009). His newest chapbook is Voir Dire (Rope-a-Dope, 2009). He is a co-founder of Birds, LLC, and lives in Queens, NY with his wife and their nearly two year old twin son and daughter. Emily Pettitis the author of two chapbooks HOW (Octopus Books) and WHAT HAPPENED TO LIMBO (Pilot Books). She is an editor for notnostrums (notnostrums.com) and Factory Hollow Press. As well as assistant editor at jubilat. Her first full-length book, GOAT IN THE SNOW is forthcoming from Birds LLC. Sampson Starkweatheris the author of four chapbooks, most recently The Heart is Green from So Much Waiting from Immaculate Disciples Press and Self Help Poems a Greying Ghost production, starring: Mickey Rourke, Charlie Rose, Mike Tyson, the history of fields, Johnny Depp, Chris Rock, Belinda Carlisle, Rockwell, the mythical monster Brah-zilla, breathing machines, McCain?s Concession speech, Somalian pirates, and much, much more!!!!! He lives in Brooklyn. Chris Tonelliis one of the founding editors of Birds, LLC, an independent poetry press. He also founded and co-curates the So and So Series and co-edits the So and So Magazine with Christopher Salerno. He is the author of four chapbooks, most recently No Theater (Brave Men Press) and For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press), and his first full-length collection, The Trees Around, came out in April from Birds, LLC. New work can be found in upcoming issues of The Laurel Review and Fou. He teaches at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, where he lives with his wife Allison and their son Miles. at Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway (corner of Dodworth St) Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave or J train to Kosciusko St Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds -- ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Jan 25 17:51:44 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:51:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Birds LLC at Stain! Boehl~Browning~Gabbert~Marks~Pettit~Starkweather~Tonelli Message-ID: <855099.40280.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Happy New Year, friends! The new co-curators of The Stain of Poetry Reading Series, Steven Karl, Erika Moya and Christie Ann Reynolds welcome you to the first reading of the 2011 seaso?n. Even though we've been hosting for the last few months, we've officially been stamped with our new title and hope that you are in our company when we celebrate. We decided to kick off the season and warm your winter blues with a migration of poets. Some have moved away, some still live on the east coast?either way, they're coming home to roost at Goodbye Blue Monday. Don't miss this Friday and an opportunity to get your cold little hands on two hot new books. Read on dear winter reader....read on for all of the fantastic news... Your co-curators in crime, Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds PS: ex-curators Amy King & Ana Bozicevic continue to keep busy with their online journal esque (keep an eye out for the new issue in February!), and you'll continue to hear from Ana about poetry programs & initiatives at the CUNY Graduate Center. ~ Dan Boehl ~ Sommer Browning ~ Elisa Gabbert ~ Justin Marks ~ Emily Pettit ~ Sampson Starkweather & Chris Tonelli 7 PM on January 28th @ Goodbye Blue Monday ? Bushwick, Brooklyn Birds, LLC flocks to NYC for the Stain of Poetry reading series. Join us, Friday, January 28th, 7 o'clock at Goodbye Blue Monday, Bushwick, Brooklyn for a reading and book release party! Introducing Sommer Browning's Either Way I'm Celebrating and Dan Boehl's Kings of the F**king Sea. Readers include Dan Boehl, Sommer Browning, Elisa Gabbert, Justin Marks, Emily Pettit, Sampson Starkweather, and Chris Tonelli. So many birds you'll think you're in Audubon Magazine! Wear your feathers! If you can't make the reading, you should visit the Birds, LLC website and order their books here: http://www.birdsllc.com/. First 100 copies of Either Way I'm Celebrating and Kings of the F**king Sea include temporary tattoos! Readers? Bios: Dan Boehl?sbook Kings of the F**king Sea is available from Birds, LLC. It is about art, pirates, and Spiderman 3. His chapbook Les Miseres et les Mal-Heurs de la Guerre is available from Greying Ghost. He writes art reviews in Austin and works for the University of Texas. Sommer Browningis the author of Either Way I?m Celebrating (Birds, LLC), a collection of poems and comics. In 2008, she and Tony Mancus founded the hand bound chapbook press Flying Guillotine. Her drawings, poems and reviews can be found in Octopus, The New York Quarterly, Drunken Boat, Typo and on Friendster. She rides a Segway in Denver where she co-hosts the Bad Shadow Affair reading series with Julia Cohen. Visit her Asthma Chronicles (http://asthmachronicles.com/). Elisa Gabbertis the poetry editor of Absent and the author of The French Exit (Birds LLC) and Thanks for Sending the Engine (Kitchen Press). Her recent poems can be found in Denver Quarterly, Everyday Genius, and Sentence, and recent nonfiction in Mantis, Open Letters Monthly, and The Monkey & the Wrench: Essays into Contemporary Poetics. Justin Markswrites marketing copy for god. His first book is A Million in Prizes (New Issues, 2009). His newest chapbook is Voir Dire (Rope-a-Dope, 2009). He is a co-founder of Birds, LLC, and lives in Queens, NY with his wife and their nearly two year old twin son and daughter. Emily Pettitis the author of two chapbooks HOW (Octopus Books) and WHAT HAPPENED TO LIMBO (Pilot Books). She is an editor for notnostrums (notnostrums.com) and Factory Hollow Press. As well as assistant editor at jubilat. Her first full-length book, GOAT IN THE SNOW is forthcoming from Birds LLC. Sampson Starkweatheris the author of four chapbooks, most recently The Heart is Green from So Much Waiting from Immaculate Disciples Press and Self Help Poems a Greying Ghost production, starring: Mickey Rourke, Charlie Rose, Mike Tyson, the history of fields, Johnny Depp, Chris Rock, Belinda Carlisle, Rockwell, the mythical monster Brah-zilla, breathing machines, McCain?s Concession speech, Somalian pirates, and much, much more!!!!! He lives in Brooklyn. Chris Tonelliis one of the founding editors of Birds, LLC, an independent poetry press. He also founded and co-curates the So and So Series and co-edits the So and So Magazine with Christopher Salerno. He is the author of four chapbooks, most recently No Theater (Brave Men Press) and For People Who Like Gravity and Other People (Rope-A-Dope Press), and his first full-length collection, The Trees Around, came out in April from Birds, LLC. New work can be found in upcoming issues of The Laurel Review and Fou. He teaches at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, where he lives with his wife Allison and their son Miles. at Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway (corner of Dodworth St) Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave or J train to Kosciusko St Hosted by Steven Karl, Erika Moya & Christie Ann Reynolds -- ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Tue Jan 25 18:53:49 2011 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:53:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: <70C057C9-D92C-48E9-8BBB-DACBC4658D0B@sprintmail.com> References: <70C057C9-D92C-48E9-8BBB-DACBC4658D0B@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: <271090.91112.qm@web120510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> In an old recording, before he began reading, Yeats related a story where Morris said about a poem of his (which someone had just apparently read poorly), "It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get that thing into verse." Yeats then repeated that sentiment about his own poetry, adding, "And that is why I will not read them as if they were prose." Then he launched into his ghostly tenor. ________________________________ From: Tom Kostro To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 12:07:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 30 chiming after a long rest note: What did Yeats say that Willliam Morris really said. Certainly like to use sounds in composing poems: Except this: the drunk eventually takes a piss. Steam rises from the hot, withheld stream? HiSSSsssssss the stream Re-covers/ Re- Surges into stuck-River flow. The boat can go. Naturally, Charon breathes his gustiest sigh, Wheeeeeeew! Sweet relief. > > >"And I begin to see that there is a big difference between mental words and >physical words, mental writing and physical writing." > >Yep. It's fascinating indeed, and a real phenomenon. > >Nic Sebastian > >Whale Sound >Very Like A Whale >Voice Alpha > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:33:20 -0800 >From: ccooley at overdomain.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? > >Thanks for playing everyone. Appreciated the responses & getting to know >people's work better. > > > >Fortunately, there are many, many things one >needn't make up one's mind about. > >Hal > >"A sud >John J >> > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 9:26:32 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Do you use sound recording in composing poems? > > > It gave me a devil of a lot of trouble to get into verse the poems that I > am going to read, and that is why I will not read them as if they were > prose. > > ?W. B. Yeats, introducing his poems in a 1932 recording,* Poetry on > Record: 98 Poets Read Their Work, 1888-2006* (Shout! Factory, 2006) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 11:33:14 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:33:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: [NetBehaviour] resound call for longer works In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: patrick simons Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 4:19 AM Subject: [NetBehaviour] resound call for longer works To: netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org *Call For Work* Resound Falmouth 2011 The event is to take place 25-27th March 2011, in Falmouth, Cornwall, UK and will be centred around the local community radio station Source fm http://www.thesourcefm.co.uk/ As part of the three day event, there will be live presentations talks and discussions with artists and curators who have been involved with a wide range of art work for broadcast and sonic reproduction . Resound aims to profile a range of sound works, , sound interventions, installations, live performances, works for broadcast, including radio interventions. We are asking for sound pieces, between 20- 40 minutes in length, (mp3/wav) to be played through the night on thesourcefm, between 23.00- 08.00. They can be field recordings, composed pieces, performances, sound poetry...... The theme is loosely ?at rest/night? but all work will be considered. Please attach a short description/ contextualisation of the work submitted. Creative commons applies. Patrick Simons Please send cds to Resound Falmouth 2011 C/O The Source fm Tregenver, Tregenver Road, Falmouth. TR11 2QW If you need any further information about the event, submissions etc, please feel free to contact me at patricksimons1 at googlemail.com Resound is supported by Source FM, SVA Caz, www.caz.artdeptdesign.com and Alias, www.aliasarts.org _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Wed Jan 26 22:14:06 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:14:06 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ Message-ID: The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it flies east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little essay gives you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This extraordinary poet "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in her work and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not afraid of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice frightful clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and meaninglessness with no hint of despair." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Jan 27 09:34:52 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:34:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is an interesting and challenging take on the business of reviewing, and real neat on Catherine's book. On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it flies > east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: > > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml > > If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little essay gives > you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This extraordinary poet > "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in her work > and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not afraid > of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice frightful > clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and meaninglessness with no > hint of despair." > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 11:14:39 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:14:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] new artist residency (includes writers) Message-ID: http://www.birchcreekresidency.org -in Utah! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 11:27:23 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:27:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What Tad said, and I think you nailed the triplets. - Jim On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > This is an interesting and challenging take on the business of reviewing, > and real neat on Catherine's book. > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it flies >> east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: >> >> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml >> >> If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little essay gives >> you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This extraordinary poet >> "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in her work >> and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not afraid >> of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice frightful >> clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and meaninglessness with no >> hint of despair." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 11:43:00 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:43:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Gladdy's Blues" Message-ID: *Gladdy's Blues * * * Gladdy Chromatic comes in lugging rubric of mendacious ecology, doing rancid, Barstow Eskimo blues. With banshee quickstep and definite armpit augur, Gladdy's street pluck roams swanlike beside an atheist anchovy. I tell her to lay off Columbus gin mash, Christlike schizophrenia, rheumatic greenery, and to quit riding that lean needle surrey. But then she goes into a flex Fargo crimp and frog leitmotiv of augmented Mozart, on and on about her affair with Cutaneous Abram's janitorial ontogeny. He's vertical immigrant proficient-- reminds her of acrylic where Chomsky Budapest meets congestive roughshod Emily. It was, she says, an inaccessible inflammation. Beneath amazon skyscrape, hairpin radar catches them and writes out a chronicle ticket in tubular Illinois. That's when the Viking restaurateur pulls a pantry prank smooth as veterinarian clockwork, his impeccable wiggly furze doing a fragmentary lease clank. Gladdy's motto derision of his superior effluvium births minimum haiku: "Eighty-do-Madonna- beyond-Bleeker," yells the Viking. Gladdy's culvert gunman is witty appointee with incumbent drink. Gladdy and gunman climb aboard an anthropogenic Packard omnibus, skeedaddling like a sinister patch. "Vanquish nutrition," they yell. -- Jim The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Jan 27 12:47:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:47:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner Message-ID: <8CD8C616B824BC7-DC0-13965@webmail-m070.sysops.aol.com> Thursday 27 January 2011 Telegraph.co.uk http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8286254/A-Page-in-the-Life-Jo-Shapcott.html A Page in the Life: Jo Shapcott The Costa prize-winner Jo Shapcott tells Sinclair McKay that her poems aren?t simply about her cancer. By Sinclair McKay ?A lot of things jostle in my notebook, things that I have overheard, or heard about,?? says the poet Jo Shapcott, the morning after winning this year?s Costa Book of the Year, and still sounding a little giddy. ?In all the jostling are ideas that can link, form a new kind of emotional truth, a different kind of truth than just simply the facts.? Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner Her winning collection, Of Mutability, has been described as being ? in part ? about her experience of breast cancer a few years ago, and her medical treatment. But there should be a distinction here, she says, about how far poems can be read as simple autobiography. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 12:49:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:49:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] new artist residency (includes writers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All residents get free Browning. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > http://www.birchcreekresidency.org > > -in Utah! > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 02:29:42 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:29:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerts Message-ID: Accessible until tomorrow: http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Artiste/wolfgang-amadeus-mozart.html Maria-Joao Pires, Chamber Orchestra of Europe : Mendelssohn, Mozart, Schubert I think you will have to register. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 08:57:51 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:57:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I quite enjoyed your review, both as an exploration of Daly's work, and of the art of reviewing. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it flies > east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: > > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml > > If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little essay gives > you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This extraordinary poet > "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in her work > and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not afraid > of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice frightful > clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and meaninglessness with no > hint of despair." > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jan 28 14:40:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:40:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Message-ID: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 14:46:03 2011 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:46:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The new ROTARY INTERNATIONAL FLEXIBLE MEMBERSHIP OPTION-EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME BY RTN GBEMI TIJANI MST Message-ID: i 'm in love with RI PILOT PROGRAMES-implicating much more flexibility on membership -which is hitherto herculean and somehow restricted to individual PRIVILEDGED invitations.I guess with much gusto that it will help to increase membership via individual,associate ,satellite & corporate membership options to be experimented this 2010/2011 Rotary Year.It will augment resources for club in Africa where membership hitherto has been very reserved for priviledged invitations and a few decades ago in Nigeria to top echelons possibly only millionaires or top executives of organisations or companies .It will not only annul anonymity in the society it will catalyse the inherent public relations aura which Rotary as a humanitarian service club should have garnered long time ago since Paul Harris trio 's indelible community mark in Chicago in 1905.it should also be viewd as a good news for multisectoral and interdisciplinary properties it will accept into Rotary on purpose including new beauty-again clubs and boost project gaiety and participation.Project implementation will be cost effective as well as expedient as there will be more multitalented members with more ample time,resoure pool to get going mutually identified projects with the locality where such clubs emerge.I felicitate with RI ON THIS DYNAMIC EXPERIMENTABLE THINKING.Thanks to Providence for not being slothful and officiously dormant on the future of Rotary. I don't think Rotary couldnt have rettained the usual perennial figure of 1.2m humanitarian armory till date.This is a new longevity gene to perenate service beyond the 1.227563 Rotarians,192,809 Rotaracts,295895 Interacts and 160425 Rotary Community Corps currently sustaining Rotary service globally. However within 2 years of the pilot there will be wealthy or worthy results to catalyse the replication of this idea everywhere other than the 200 clubs in 34 zones that will 1st bell the cat.I suggest they liberalise the participation insofar interested clubs aren't owing any capitation fees.Who knows -those owing -albeit if not pathologically - will be the most vulnerable targets of being healed with the dividends of the pilot programme.If they are denied participation how else will their shock be attenuated? Prior to the second week in the ne w year as i was leaving a science/tech editor of a reputed educational books publisher at Magazine Road,Jericho Area ,Ibadan,Nigeria an amiable handsome music pastor in my church( Laughter Bible Church) courteously approached me after a harmless gaze at my Rotary pin and asked how he can become a Rotarian and i respleddently replied NO PROBLEM. Just try to attend the next Family Of Rotary Party and the next felllowship meeting holding in the same venue Cedar Resorts,GRA,Ibadan you will meet Rotarians and you will be welcome to consolidate your dreams soonest possible.I released the December issue of the Rotarian ans suggest he also visit www.rotary.org prior to any of the Rotary rendezvous above.He turned up at the Rotary Party and he sent me sms indicating that it was hilarious and he would turn up at our business meetings for more about Rotary values and project. INSPIRED BY THE ilesha intercity meeting to wear our pins -even to churches -i heartily wore my pins to church almost 2ce in a month depending on my choice of apparel and it paid up.In once business day in 2010 when i was te President -Elect it earned me four invitations after queries by the Rotaracts without pins -'Hi so you re a Rotarian?' 2 bankers and 2 I.T. GALS AND GUYS asked one after the other in 6km apart offices. Kudos to a more expansive,socially commodious and democratic innovative pathways to improving human conditions,conviviality,social ecology and contemporary literacy and most vital international understanding,peace and goodwill via Rotary values integrated in the THE OBJECT OF ROTARY and tips of the ICEBERG in the 4-WAY TEST. EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME YES WRITERS BEHIND THE SCENE OF PERFORMING ARTISTS. GBEMI TIJANI MST,President,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE ,D9125 On 1/28/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner (jforjames at aol.com) > 2. Re: new artist residency (includes writers) (Halvard Johnson) > 3. Concerts (Anny Ballardini) > 4. Re: Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ (carol dorf) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:47:37 -0500 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner > Message-ID: <8CD8C616B824BC7-DC0-13965 at webmail-m070.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > Thursday 27 January 2011 > Telegraph.co.uk > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8286254/A-Page-in-the-Life-Jo-Shapcott.html > > A Page in the Life: Jo Shapcott > The Costa prize-winner Jo Shapcott tells Sinclair McKay that her poems > aren?t simply about her cancer. > By Sinclair McKay > > ?A lot of things jostle in my notebook, things that I have overheard, or > heard about,?? says the poet Jo Shapcott, the morning after winning this > year?s Costa Book of the Year, and still sounding a little giddy. ?In all > the jostling are ideas that can link, form a new kind of emotional truth, a > different kind of truth than just simply the facts.? > > Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner Her winning collection, Of Mutability, has > been described as being ? in part ? about her experience of breast cancer a > few years ago, and her medical treatment. But there should be a distinction > here, she says, about how far poems can be read as simple autobiography. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:49:01 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new artist residency (includes writers) > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > All residents get free Browning. > > Hal > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly > Black > , **Obras > P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango > Bouquet > ; **Theory of > Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie > espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet > Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Catherine Daly > wrote: > >> http://www.birchcreekresidency.org >> >> -in Utah! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:29:42 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerts > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Accessible until tomorrow: > http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Artiste/wolfgang-amadeus-mozart.html > Maria-Joao Pires, Chamber Orchestra of Europe : Mendelssohn, Mozart, > Schubert > I think you will have to register. > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:57:51 -0800 > From: carol dorf > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I quite enjoyed your review, both as an exploration of Daly's work, and of > the art of reviewing. > Carol > talkingwriting.com > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Crisman Cooley > wrote: > >> The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it flies >> east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: >> >> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml >> >> If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little essay gives >> you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This extraordinary >> poet >> "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in her work >> and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not >> afraid >> of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice frightful >> clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and meaninglessness with >> no >> hint of despair." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 34 > ***************************************** > From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 15:34:20 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:34:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I just read some of four of the sections. Pure dreck. Mostly about the experience of being in workshops at Iowa, and mostly the kind of free verse that's no verse at all. But that's not the problem. The world is full of dreck. It's the reduction of poetry to a set of projects that gets me. On another list there's a discussion about mid-career changes in how one writes. Aside from the worry about what happens if no one recognizes your "voice," it seems to be almost entiorely about technique. Big changes, like writing in third person instead of first. No sense that a change in one's practice is also a chan ge in one's perception or consciousness, that it's both driven by and drives an internal dynamic. Poetry in this country has become a set of social clubs, cohorts defined by age and alma mater. And the talk is all about the narrowest of technical concerns. Imagine Whitman is such a place. Nuff said. Mark At 02:40 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: > >http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > >Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page >poem every day for 100 days?producing a >10,000-page poem. As you can see by the imagee >embedded above, the entire work has been printed >and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > >You can read the entire manuscript at this link, >downloading individual chapters?100-page >segments. The library has a great post aboutt >how they bound the 10,000-page poem. > >Here are a few lines from the opening of the >epic poem: ???Today the sky above Iowa City / is >cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in >the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In >front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon >sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video >the beginning / of this poetry marathon.??? > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 15:48:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:48:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: Holy cow! [...] On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 > # > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 > days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded > above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by > the University of Iowa Libraries. > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual > chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they > bound the 10,000-page poem. > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky > above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind > / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main > Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the > beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 15:51:26 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:51:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: >I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: > >Holy cow! [...] > > >On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, ><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: > >http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > >Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page >poem every day for 100 days?producing a >10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image >embedded above, the entire work has been printed >and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > >You can read the entire manuscript at this link, >downloading individual chapters?100-page >segments. The library has a great post about how >they bound the 10,000-page poem. > >Here are a few lines from the opening of the >epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is >cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in >the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In >front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon >sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video >the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Jan 28 16:10:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:10:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, but something like this seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. The other night I was browsing thru a recent anthology of younger American poets,.a number of whom were obvious into long works/projects, and so in Contents page the excerpts were listed like this... >From "The Divagations" >From "tex/d" >From " logorrheality" >From "Manifest Destinations" etc. I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest way of excerpting would be to put it like this... >From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: Holy cow! [...] On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 # Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 # Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 16:13:51 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:13:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ah, the trees, yes, that could be my comment. I think, on the positive side, this project shows that 100 pages can be written not only one day, but several days in a row. We are thus a little lazy sometimes, I am logically speaking of myself. On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:10 PM, wrote: > Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" > > I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, but something like this > seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. > > The other night I was browsing thru a recent anthology of younger > American poets,.a number of whom were obvious into long works/projects, and > so in Contents page the excerpts were listed like this... > > From "The Divagations" > From "tex/d" > From " logorrheality" > From "Manifest Destinations" > etc. > I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest way of excerpting would be > to put it like this... > From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. > > At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: > > I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: > > Holy cow! [...] > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 > days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded > above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by > the University of Iowa Libraries. > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual > chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they > bound the 10,000-page poem. > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky > above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind > / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main > Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the > beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Jan 28 16:14:31 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:14:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8D477CF1FFC4-1FDC-97B9@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Four sections? Mark, you have infinitely more patience than I do. I read a few pages of the first one-- since the lines are all rather short and broken for any reason or no reason at all, it didn't take long, but longer than it deserved. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 4:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, but something like this seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. The other night I was browsing thru a recent anthology of younger American poets,.a number of whom were obvious into long works/projects, and so in Contents page the excerpts were listed like this... >From "The Divagations" >From "tex/d" >From " logorrheality" >From "Manifest Destinations" etc. I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest way of excerpting would be to put it like this... >From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: Holy cow! [...] On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 # Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 16:27:27 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:27:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A stunt for sure, but given credibility by the University of Iowa. At 04:10 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: >Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" > >I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, >but something like this seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. > >The other night I was browsing thru a recent >anthology of younger American poets,.a number of >whom were obvious into long works/projects, and >so in Contents page the excerpts were listed like this... > > From "The Divagations" > From "tex/d" > From " logorrheality" > From "Manifest Destinations" >etc. >I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest >way of excerpting would be to put it like this... > From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." > >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > >Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. > >At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: >>I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: >> >>Holy cow! [...] >> >> >>On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, >><jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >> >>http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 >># >>Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >>By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >>Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page >>poem every day for 100 days?producing a >>10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image >>emmbedded above, the entire work has been >>printed and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. >> >>You can read the entire manuscript at this >>link, downloading individual chapters?100-page >>segments. The library has a great post aboutt >>how they bound the 10,000-page poem. >> >>Here are a few lines from the opening of the >>epic poem: ???Today the sky above Iowa City / >>is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing >>in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. >>/ In front of the University/ Main Library, >>Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed >>to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.??? >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Anny Ballardini >>http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to >>give birth to a dancing star! >>Friedrich Nietzsche >> >>?? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?? >>Giovenale >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? fragments are >like Chekhov???s short stories?the more that >gets left out, the more they seem to contain >One can hear echoess from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only innto a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >= >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Jan 28 19:17:07 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:17:07 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 35 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Mark wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem (jforjames at aol.com) > 2. Re: The new ROTARY INTERNATIONAL FLEXIBLE MEMBERSHIP > OPTION-EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME BY RTN GBEMI TIJANI MST (BY > TJMST) > 3. Re: Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem (Mark Weiss) > 4. Re: Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem (Anny Ballardini) > 5. Re: Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem (Mark Weiss) > 6. Re: Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem (jforjames at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:40:32 -0500 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > Message-ID: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5 at webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for > 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image > embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a > massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading > individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post > about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the > sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing > in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the > University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / > posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:46:03 -0800 > From: BY TJMST > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The new ROTARY INTERNATIONAL FLEXIBLE > MEMBERSHIP OPTION-EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME BY RTN GBEMI TIJANI MST > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > i 'm in love with RI PILOT PROGRAMES-implicating much more > flexibility on > membership -which is hitherto herculean and somehow restricted to > individual PRIVILEDGED > invitations.I guess with much gusto that it will help to increase > membership via > individual,associate ,satellite & corporate membership options to be > experimented this 2010/2011 Rotary Year.It will augment resources for > club in Africa where membership > hitherto has been very reserved for priviledged invitations and a > few decades > ago in Nigeria to top echelons possibly only millionaires or top > executives of organisations or companies > .It will not only annul anonymity in the society it will catalyse the > inherent public relations aura which Rotary as a humanitarian service > club should have garnered long time ago since Paul Harris trio 's > indelible community mark in Chicago in 1905.it should also be viewd as > a good news for multisectoral and interdisciplinary properties it will > accept into Rotary > on purpose including new beauty-again clubs and boost project gaiety > and > participation.Project implementation will be cost effective as well as > expedient as there will be more multitalented members with more ample > time,resoure pool to get going mutually identified projects with the > locality where such clubs emerge.I felicitate with RI ON THIS DYNAMIC > EXPERIMENTABLE THINKING.Thanks to Providence for not being slothful > and > officiously dormant on the future of Rotary. I don't think Rotary > couldnt have > rettained the usual perennial figure of 1.2m humanitarian armory till > date.This is a new longevity gene to perenate service beyond the > 1.227563 Rotarians,192,809 Rotaracts,295895 Interacts and 160425 > Rotary Community Corps currently sustaining Rotary service globally. > However within 2 years of the pilot there will be wealthy or worthy > results > to catalyse the replication of this idea everywhere other than the > 200 clubs > in 34 zones that will 1st bell the cat.I suggest they liberalise the > participation insofar interested clubs aren't owing any capitation > fees.Who knows > -those owing -albeit if not pathologically - will be the most > vulnerable targets > of being healed with the dividends of the pilot programme.If they are > denied participation how else will their shock be attenuated? Prior to > the second week in the ne w year as i was leaving a science/tech > editor of a reputed educational books publisher at Magazine > Road,Jericho Area ,Ibadan,Nigeria an amiable handsome music pastor in > my church( Laughter Bible Church) courteously approached me after a > harmless gaze at my Rotary pin and asked how he can become a Rotarian > and i respleddently replied NO PROBLEM. Just try to attend the next > Family Of Rotary Party and the next felllowship meeting holding in the > same venue Cedar Resorts,GRA,Ibadan you will meet Rotarians and you > will be welcome to consolidate your dreams soonest possible.I released > the December issue of the Rotarian ans suggest he also visit > www.rotary.org prior to any of the Rotary rendezvous above.He turned > up at the Rotary Party and he sent me sms indicating that it was > hilarious and he would turn up at our business meetings for more about > Rotary values and project. > INSPIRED BY THE ilesha intercity meeting to wear our pins -even to > churches -i heartily wore my pins to church almost 2ce in a month > depending on my choice of apparel and it paid up.In once business day > in 2010 when i was te President -Elect it earned me four invitations > after queries by the Rotaracts without pins -'Hi so you re a > Rotarian?' 2 bankers and 2 I.T. GALS AND GUYS asked one after the > other in 6km apart offices. > Kudos to a more > expansive,socially commodious and democratic innovative pathways to > improving human conditions,conviviality,social ecology and > contemporary literacy and most vital > international understanding,peace and goodwill via Rotary values > integrated > in the THE OBJECT OF ROTARY and tips of the ICEBERG in the 4-WAY TEST. > EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME YES WRITERS BEHIND THE SCENE OF > PERFORMING ARTISTS. > GBEMI TIJANI MST,President,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE ,D9125 > > > On 1/28/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > wrote: >> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner (jforjames at aol.com) >> 2. Re: new artist residency (includes writers) (Halvard Johnson) >> 3. Concerts (Anny Ballardini) >> 4. Re: Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ (carol dorf) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:47:37 -0500 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner >> Message-ID: <8CD8C616B824BC7-DC0-13965 at webmail-m070.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> Thursday 27 January 2011 >> Telegraph.co.uk >> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8286254/A-Page-in-the-Life-Jo-Shapcott.html >> >> A Page in the Life: Jo Shapcott >> The Costa prize-winner Jo Shapcott tells Sinclair McKay that her >> poems >> aren?t simply about her cancer. >> By Sinclair McKay >> >> ?A lot of things jostle in my notebook, things that I have >> overheard, or >> heard about,?? says the poet Jo Shapcott, the morning after winning >> this >> year?s Costa Book of the Year, and still sounding a little giddy. ? >> In all >> the jostling are ideas that can link, form a new kind of emotional >> truth, a >> different kind of truth than just simply the facts.? >> >> Jo Shapcott: Costa Prize Winner Her winning collection, Of >> Mutability, has >> been described as being ? in part ? about her experience of breast >> cancer a >> few years ago, and her medical treatment. But there should be a >> distinction >> here, she says, about how far poems can be read as simple >> autobiography. >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:49:01 -0600 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] new artist residency (includes writers) >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> All residents get free Browning. >> >> Hal >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly >> Black> > >> , **Obras >> P?blicas> > >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other >> Sonnets> > >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of >> Clones> > >> ; **Tango >> Bouquet> > >> ; **Theory of >> Harmony> > >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie >> espagnole> > >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo >> Subway> > >> ; **The Sonnet >> Project> > >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; >> **Winter >> Journey ; >> **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > >; >> * >> *Transparencies & Projections > > >> * >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Catherine Daly >> wrote: >> >>> http://www.birchcreekresidency.org >>> >>> -in Utah! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:29:42 +0100 >> From: Anny Ballardini >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" >> >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Concerts >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Accessible until tomorrow: >> http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Artiste/wolfgang-amadeus- >> mozart.html >> Maria-Joao Pires, Chamber Orchestra of Europe : Mendelssohn, Mozart, >> Schubert >> I think you will have to register. >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:57:51 -0800 >> From: carol dorf >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Review of Catherine Daly's _Vauxhall_ >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> I quite enjoyed your review, both as an exploration of Daly's work, >> and of >> the art of reviewing. >> Carol >> talkingwriting.com >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Crisman Cooley >> wrote: >> >>> The last piece published in the last Australian Jacket, before it >>> flies >>> east (or west) to its new home at UPenn: >>> >>> http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-daly-vauxhall-rb-cooley.shtml >>> >>> If you haven't read Catherine Daly's work, I hope this little >>> essay gives >>> you the impetus. If you have, you know what I mean. This >>> extraordinary >>> poet >>> "has somehow found a pathway through the maze of modern life, in >>> her work >>> and in her poetry. She seems a kind of oracle of the new: she is not >>> afraid >>> of Rite Aid; she is devoid of lessons, which gives her voice >>> frightful >>> clarity and shows us a bit of the world?s chaos and >>> meaninglessness with >>> no >>> hint of despair." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 34 >> ***************************************** >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:34:20 -0500 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > I just read some of four of the sections. Pure > dreck. Mostly about the experience of being in > workshops at Iowa, and mostly the kind of free verse that's no verse > at all. > > But that's not the problem. The world is full of > dreck. It's the reduction of poetry to a set of > projects that gets me. On another list there's a > discussion about mid-career changes in how one > writes. Aside from the worry about what happens > if no one recognizes your "voice," it seems to be > almost entiorely about technique. Big changes, > like writing in third person instead of first. No > sense that a change in one's practice is also a > chan ge in one's perception or consciousness, > that it's both driven by and drives an internal dynamic. > > Poetry in this country has become a set of social > clubs, cohorts defined by age and alma mater. And > the talk is all about the narrowest of technical > concerns. Imagine Whitman is such a place. > > Nuff said. > > Mark > > > > At 02:40 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: >> >> > >http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# >> >> Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >> By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >> Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page >> poem every day for 100 days?producing a >> 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the imagee >> embedded above, the entire work has been printed >> and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. >> >> You can read the entire manuscript at this link, >> downloading individual chapters?100-page >> segments. The library has a great post aboutt >> how they bound the 10,000-page poem. >> >> Here are a few lines from the opening of the >> epic poem: ???Today the sky above Iowa City / is >> cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in >> the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In >> front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon >> sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video >> the beginning / of this poetry marathon.??? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are > like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain? One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:48:37 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: > > Holy cow! [...] > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > >> >> http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 >> # >> >> Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >> By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >> Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for >> 100 >> days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image >> embedded >> above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive >> volume by >> the University of Iowa Libraries. >> >> You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading >> individual >> chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how >> they >> bound the 10,000-page poem. >> >> Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the >> sky >> above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in >> the wind >> / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main >> Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the >> beginning / of this poetry marathon.? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:51:26 -0500 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. > > At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: >> I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: >> >> Holy cow! [...] >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, >> <jforjames at aol.com> wrote: >> >> > >http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# >> >> Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem >> By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM >> Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page >> poem every day for 100 days?producing a >> 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image >> embedded above, the entire work has been printed >> and bound into a massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. >> >> You can read the entire manuscript at this link, >> downloading individual chapters?100-page >> segments. The library has a great post about how >> they bound the 10,000-page poem. >> >> Here are a few lines from the opening of the >> epic poem: ?Today the sky above Iowa City / is >> cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in >> the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In >> front of the University/ Main Library, Gordon >> sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video >> the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are > like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain? One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:10:09 -0500 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > Message-ID: <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4 at webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" > > > I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, but something like > this seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. > > The other night I was browsing thru a recent anthology of younger > American poets,.a number of whom were obvious into long works/ > projects, and so in Contents page the excerpts were listed like > this... > >> From "The Divagations" >> From "tex/d" >> From " logorrheality" >> From "Manifest Destinations" > etc. > I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest way of excerpting > would be to put it like this... >> From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > > > Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. > > At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: > > I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: > > Holy cow! [...] > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > > > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 > # > > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for > 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image > embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a > massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > > > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading > individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post > about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. > > > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the > sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing > in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the > University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / > posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > > > > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071 > # > > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for > 100 days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image > embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a > massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > > > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading > individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post > about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. > > > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the > sky above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing > in the wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the > University/ Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / > posed to video the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation > of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, > and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a > part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more > that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear > echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its > center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is > both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] > opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, > this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 35 > ***************************************** From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Jan 28 19:18:46 2011 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:18:46 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 6, Issue 35 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3626D862-C377-49B9-9FC0-9C84E15ECBE6@verizon.net> SORRY: A POST GOT AWAY FROM ME BEFORE WRITTEN On Jan 28, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Mark wrote: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jan 28 20:17:02 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:17:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] schwabsky on the grand piano In-Reply-To: <8CD8A4AC33773A8-F84-2BB4F@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8A4AC33773A8-F84-2BB4F@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D436A8E.9090405@nut-n-but.net> First off, this is a test to see if an attachment will show up when this e.mail is posted. If not, one can see what it contains at http://tipoftheknife.blogspot.com/2011/01/tip-of-knife-issue-3.html?showComment=1296227493737#c7300633740752662346. Scroll down to my "EE-Winter." Secondly, to those who believe non-Wilshberian works like this piece are the equivalent of someone kicking an elk skull and calling what they're doing "poetry," what such a work should be called. Not "visual art," by the way, since everything in it is textual--the verbal text of words and the mathematical text of mathematical symbols (to wit, the absolute signs [the verticals], the minus signs, and the remainder and what I call the "dividend shed"). Thirdly, I'd love to hear what anyone makes of the poem. Everything in it can be paraphrased--if one knows how to read math and solve simple cryptograms. I call it a cryptographic mathematical poem, by the way. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EE--Winter.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17793 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Jan 29 02:58:08 2011 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 02:58:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Stunt, gimmick -- it's just awful. John Clare wrote 10,000 pages, and you'd want to read at least a bunch of it. You could probably ask Lyn Lifshin to do the same job, and a good bit of it would be readable. I really hate awful poetry. This guy makes me think Bob Grumman is right. On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > A stunt for sure, but given credibility by the University of Iowa. > > > At 04:10 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: > > Wouldn't a more appropriate reaction be..."Oh, the trees, the trees!" > > I don't disagree with what you're saying, Mark, but something like this > seems more of a stunt or a gimick than a project. > > The other night I was browsing thru a recent anthology of younger American > poets,.a number of whom were obvious into long works/projects, and so in > Contents page the excerpts were listed like this... > > From "The Divagations" > From "tex/d" > From " logorrheality" > From "Manifest Destinations" > etc. > I and was thinking to myself maybe a more honest way of excerpting would be > to put it like this... > From "A long work no one is expected to read in its entirety." > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Fri, Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > Unfair to cows, tho he really milks it. > > At 03:48 PM 1/28/2011, you wrote: > > I like Sarah Allen's comment to the post: > > Holy cow! [...] > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 > days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image emmbedded > above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by > the University of Iowa Libraries. You can read the entire manuscript at > this link, downloading individual chapters?100-page segments. The library > has a great post aboutt how they bound the 10,000-page poem. Here are a > few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ???Today the sky above Iowa > City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind / and > tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main Library, > Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the beginning / of > this poetry marathon.?? > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ?? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ?? > > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss??? > fragments are like Chekhov???s short stories?the more that gets left out, > the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoess from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only innto a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 04:19:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:19:28 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The new ROTARY INTERNATIONAL FLEXIBLE MEMBERSHIP OPTION-EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME BY RTN GBEMI TIJANI MST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: May I please add: Amen or does that sound too Rotaritaric_Christian and since it ends in -ian it can also be seen as all other adjectival qualifications ending in -ian ? oh, and congratulations for your Rotorotororotoracktian communality On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:46 PM, BY TJMST wrote: > i 'm in love with RI PILOT PROGRAMES-implicating much more flexibility on > membership -which is hitherto herculean and somehow restricted to > individual PRIVILEDGED > invitations.I guess with much gusto that it will help to increase > membership via > individual,associate ,satellite & corporate membership options to be > experimented this 2010/2011 Rotary Year.It will augment resources for > club in Africa where membership > hitherto has been very reserved for priviledged invitations and a few > decades > ago in Nigeria to top echelons possibly only millionaires or top > executives of organisations or companies > .It will not only annul anonymity in the society it will catalyse the > inherent public relations aura which Rotary as a humanitarian service > club should have garnered long time ago since Paul Harris trio 's > indelible community mark in Chicago in 1905.it should also be viewd as > a good news for multisectoral and interdisciplinary properties it will > accept into Rotary > on purpose including new beauty-again clubs and boost project gaiety and > participation.Project implementation will be cost effective as well as > expedient as there will be more multitalented members with more ample > time,resoure pool to get going mutually identified projects with the > locality where such clubs emerge.I felicitate with RI ON THIS DYNAMIC > EXPERIMENTABLE THINKING.Thanks to Providence for not being slothful and > officiously dormant on the future of Rotary. I don't think Rotary couldnt > have > rettained the usual perennial figure of 1.2m humanitarian armory till > date.This is a new longevity gene to perenate service beyond the > 1.227563 Rotarians,192,809 Rotaracts,295895 Interacts and 160425 > Rotary Community Corps currently sustaining Rotary service globally. > However within 2 years of the pilot there will be wealthy or worthy results > to catalyse the replication of this idea everywhere other than the 200 > clubs > in 34 zones that will 1st bell the cat.I suggest they liberalise the > participation insofar interested clubs aren't owing any capitation > fees.Who knows > -those owing -albeit if not pathologically - will be the most vulnerable > targets > of being healed with the dividends of the pilot programme.If they are > denied participation how else will their shock be attenuated? Prior to > the second week in the ne w year as i was leaving a science/tech > editor of a reputed educational books publisher at Magazine > Road,Jericho Area ,Ibadan,Nigeria an amiable handsome music pastor in > my church( Laughter Bible Church) courteously approached me after a > harmless gaze at my Rotary pin and asked how he can become a Rotarian > and i respleddently replied NO PROBLEM. Just try to attend the next > Family Of Rotary Party and the next felllowship meeting holding in the > same venue Cedar Resorts,GRA,Ibadan you will meet Rotarians and you > will be welcome to consolidate your dreams soonest possible.I released > the December issue of the Rotarian ans suggest he also visit > www.rotary.org prior to any of the Rotary rendezvous above.He turned > up at the Rotary Party and he sent me sms indicating that it was > hilarious and he would turn up at our business meetings for more about > Rotary values and project. > INSPIRED BY THE ilesha intercity meeting to wear our pins -even to > churches -i heartily wore my pins to church almost 2ce in a month > depending on my choice of apparel and it paid up.In once business day > in 2010 when i was te President -Elect it earned me four invitations > after queries by the Rotaracts without pins -'Hi so you re a > Rotarian?' 2 bankers and 2 I.T. GALS AND GUYS asked one after the > other in 6km apart offices. > Kudos to a more > expansive,socially commodious and democratic innovative pathways to > improving human conditions,conviviality,social ecology and > contemporary literacy and most vital > international understanding,peace and goodwill via Rotary values integrated > in the THE OBJECT OF ROTARY and tips of the ICEBERG in the 4-WAY TEST. > EVEN POETS WILL BE WELCOME YES WRITERS BEHIND THE SCENE OF PERFORMING > ARTISTS. > GBEMI TIJANI MST,President,RC OLUYOLE ESTATE ,D9125 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 06:55:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:55:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D440022.6090202@nut-n-but.net> On 1/28/2011 2:40 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 > days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image > embedded above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a > massive volume by the University of Iowa Libraries. > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading > individual chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post > about how they bound the 10,000-page poem. > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky > above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the > wind / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ > Main Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video > the beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > Ah, but did he do it standing on his head? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 06:56:14 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:56:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] schwabsky on the grand piano In-Reply-To: <4D436A8E.9090405@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8A4AC33773A8-F84-2BB4F@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> <4D436A8E.9090405@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D44005E.4030300@nut-n-but.net> On 1/28/2011 8:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > First off, this is a test to see if an attachment will show up when > this e.mail is posted. If not, one can see what it contains at > http://tipoftheknife.blogspot.com/2011/01/tip-of-knife-issue-3.html?showComment=1296227493737#c7300633740752662346. > Scroll down to my "EE-Winter." Hedy, neat--on my screen, at least, the poem showed up. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 07:09:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:09:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com>< E1PivI6-0005yk-WB@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CD8D46DD087554-198-77F4@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D440362.8090709@nut-n-but.net> On 1/29/2011 2:58 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Stunt, gimmick -- it's just awful. John Clare wrote 10,000 pages, and > you'd want to read at least a bunch of it. You could probably ask Lyn > Lifshin to do the same job, and a good bit of it would be readable. > > I really hate awful poetry. This guy makes me think Bob Grumman is right. Oh, well, I doubt anyone involved with it considers it something that should be taken seriously. It seems to me a somewhat interesting experiment in psychology: what happens when a non-psychotic writes something daily for a long time with little more in mind than quantity of words. Ahnd, hye, I wouldn't characterize the result as Wilshberian! --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 07:25:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:25:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D440750.5050201@nut-n-but.net> > Poetry in this country has become a set of social clubs, cohorts > defined by age and alma mater. And the talk is all about the narrowest > of technical concerns. Imagine Whitman is such a place. > > Nuff said. > > Mark Odd, my impression is that most poets are concerned almost entirely with changes of outlook, not of technique----though perhaps what Mark calls talk "about the narrowest of technical concerns," I wouldn't even consider talk about technique (because about standard uses of standard techniques). Changes in technique, especially innovative changes, are about all I personally care about in my poetry. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 08:22:42 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:22:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] schwabsky on the grand piano In-Reply-To: <4D44005E.4030300@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8A4AC33773A8-F84-2BB4F@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> <4D436A8E.9090405@nut-n-but.net> <4D44005E.4030300@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Very nice, some good work there. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/28/2011 8:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > First off, this is a test to see if an attachment will show up when this > e.mail is posted. If not, one can see what it contains at > http://tipoftheknife.blogspot.com/2011/01/tip-of-knife-issue-3.html?showComment=1296227493737#c7300633740752662346. > Scroll down to my "EE-Winter." > > > Hedy, neat--on my screen, at least, the poem showed up. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 11:34:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:34:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Mathemaku. Message-ID: <4D444178.3080601@nut-n-but.net> I'm re-sending this because the first time I sent it, I sent it with a very wrong subject description. Also, it gives me a chance to say, thank you, Anny. First off, this is a test to see if an attachment will show up when this e.mail is posted. If not, one can see what it contains at http://tipoftheknife.blogspot.com/2011/01/tip-of-knife-issue-3.html?showComment=1296227493737#c7300633740752662346. Scroll down to my "EE-Winter." Secondly, to those who believe non-Wilshberian works like this piece are the equivalent of someone kicking an elk skull and calling what they're doing "poetry," what such a work should be called. Not "visual art," by the way, since everything in it is textual--the verbal text of words and the mathematical text of mathematical symbols (to wit, the absolute signs [the verticals], the minus signs, and the remainder and what I call the "dividend shed"). Thirdly, I'd love to hear what anyone makes of the poem. Everything in it can be paraphrased--if one knows how to read math and solve simple cryptograms. I call it a cryptographic mathematical poem, by the way. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EE--Winter.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17793 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 12:41:15 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:41:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D440750.5050201@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <4D440750.5050201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: He produced a writer's journal without having to engage in the work of selection/revision. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 14:06:14 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:06:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <4D440750.5050201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: You folks better hurry. Because, if you order today, you'll get the 20,000-page version plus a free bookmark. - Jim On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, carol dorf wrote: > He produced a writer's journal without having to engage in the work of > selection/revision. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 14:07:21 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:07:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <4D440750.5050201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Nah, I don't buy chapbooks. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:06 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > You folks better hurry. Because, if you order today, you'll get the > 20,000-page version plus a free bookmark. > > - Jim > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, carol dorf wrote: > >> He produced a writer's journal without having to engage in the work of >> selection/revision. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat Jan 29 15:05:41 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:05:41 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Message-ID: Feed him white bread & 1/2 cup water for 100 days to turn logorrhea into writer's block. > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > > http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/poet-publishes-10000-page-poem_b22071# > > Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > By Jason Boog on January 28, 2011 12:57 PM > > Last year, poet David Morice wrote one 100-page poem every day for 100 > days?producing a 10,000-page poem. As you can see by the image embedded > above, the entire work has been printed and bound into a massive volume by > the University of Iowa Libraries. > > You can read the entire manuscript at this link, downloading individual > chapters?100-page segments. The library has a great post about how they > bound the 10,000-page poem. > > Here are a few lines from the opening of the epic poem: ?Today the sky > above Iowa City / is cloudy with tiny droplets / gently blowing in the wind > / and tapping my laptop with dots. / In front of the University/ Main > Library, Gordon sits / on a marble wall, camera / posed to video the > beginning / of this poetry marathon.? > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20110128/2c0108bc/attachment-0001.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 15:32:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 15:32:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com><4D44075 0.5050201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D44795F.3010908@nut-n-but.net> On 1/29/2011 12:41 PM, carol dorf wrote: > He produced a writer's journal without having to engage in the work of > selection/revision. Yes. I'd be interested to see if he makes any use of it in much shorter poems. --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Sat Jan 29 15:32:31 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 15:32:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D44795F.3010908@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <4D44075 0.5050201@nut-n-but.net> <4D44795F.3010908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Reducing the 10,00 pages to a haiku, maybe. At 03:32 PM 1/29/2011, you wrote: >On 1/29/2011 12:41 PM, carol dorf wrote: >>He produced a writer's journal without having >>to engage in the work of selection/revision. > Yes. I'd be interested to see if he makes any > use of it in much shorter poems. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 15:59:08 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:59:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com> <4D44075 0.5050201@nut-n-but.net> <4D44795F.3010908@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <679267.68487.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, if he made it into a mathemaku, I'm fairly sure the result would be zero. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:32:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Reducing the 10,00 pages to a haiku, maybe. At 03:32 PM 1/29/2011, you wrote: On 1/29/2011 12:41 PM, carol dorf wrote: > >He produced a writer's journal without having to engage in the work of >selection/revision.?Yes.? I'd be interested to see if he makes any use of it in >much shorter poems. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm ? ? "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." ? M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jan 29 16:28:42 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:28:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <679267.68487.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8D3A5C368AEA-198-68D5@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com><4D44075 0.5050201@nut-n-but.net><4D44795F.3010908@nut-n-but.net> <679267.68487.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D44868A.6070404@nut-n-but.net> On 1/29/2011 3:59 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Well, if he made it into a mathemaku, I'm fairly sure the result would > be zero. > Amicalement, > Alex Only if he knew his math! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Jan 29 17:35:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:35:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Tad, that's your alma mater's library, right? They could take his book right to the back room or basement where their archives are housed...and David Morice would have flying start to his accumulated "linear square feet." For example... http://lts.brandeis.edu/research/archives-speccoll/collections/speccoll/mancoll.html Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:58 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Stunt, gimmick -- it's just awful. John Clare wrote 10,000 pages, and you'd want to read at least a bunch of it. You could probably ask Lyn Lifshin to do the same job, and a good bit of it would be readable. I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 22:26:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 04:26:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Me dummy, I thought that was another mathemaku. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:35 PM, wrote: > Tad, that's your alma mater's library, right? > > They could take his book right to the back room or basement where their > archives are housed...and David Morice would have flying start to his > accumulated "linear square feet." > For example... > > http://lts.brandeis.edu/research/archives-speccoll/collections/speccoll/mancoll.html > > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: Tad Richards > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, Jan 29, 2011 2:58 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > Stunt, gimmick -- it's just awful. John Clare wrote 10,000 pages, and you'd > want to read at least a bunch of it. You could probably ask Lyn Lifshin to > do the same job, and a good bit of it would be readable. > > I > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 06:27:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 06:27:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> On 1/29/2011 10:26 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Me dummy, I thought that was another mathemaku. It wasn't, but you've given me a great idea: composing the world's longest mathemaku! I'll start on it right away, once I can get a college to back me. --Bob From fox.skip at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 09:34:34 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:34:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of *Poetry Comics* does. The activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as they are available. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:27 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/29/2011 10:26 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Me dummy, I thought that was another mathemaku. >> > > It wasn't, but you've given me a great idea: composing the world's longest > mathemaku! I'll start on it right away, once I can get a college to back > me. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 30 13:06:29 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:06:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of Poetry Comics does. The activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as they are available. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 14:00:59 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:00:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm one who holds that "experimental" is some of those things. Yes, in and of itself. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: > I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: > http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 > I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is > synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of *Poetry Comics* does. The > activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects > by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice > strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have > the time and as they are available. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 30 14:23:28 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:23:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Or experimental is 'sometimes' of those things...Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem I'm one who holds that "experimental" is some of those things. Yes, in and of itself. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of Poetry Comics does. The activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as they are available. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 14:27:58 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:27:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory results. You?don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you don't make a stab at it. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:23:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Or experimental is 'sometimes' of those things...Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem I'm one who holds that "experimental" is some of those things. Yes, in and of itself. Hal ? ? Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: I'd never heard of him, or encountered?his work...here's more info: >http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 > >I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is >synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important,?enduring, etc.... >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Skip Fox >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > >II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of Poetry Comics does. The activity >itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of?the projects by Bernadette >Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a >quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as >they are available. > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 30 14:32:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:32:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD8ECB9FCA24E8-12F4-15794@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> And so much depends on the quality of the hypothesis...and trusting in 'falsification'. -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Dickow To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory results. You don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you don't make a stab at it. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:23:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Or experimental is 'sometimes' of those things...Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem I'm one who holds that "experimental" is some of those things. Yes, in and of itself. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of Poetry Comics does. The activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as they are available. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 14:48:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:48:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory > results. You don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever > know if you don't make a stab at it. > Amicalement, > Alex . Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce a negative result, which is meaningful. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 14:45:19 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:45:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <448024.50609.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Granted. Unless the experiment was designed in such a way as to render any result, positive or negative, meaningless. I wonder what such an example might be in literature. Any ideas? Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:48:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory results. You?don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you don't make a stab at it. >Amicalement, >Alex >. Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce a negative result, which is meaningful. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Jan 30 14:52:35 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:52:35 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. c On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory results. > You?don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you don't > make a stab at it. > Amicalement, > Alex > > . > > Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce a > negative result, which is meaningful. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 15:03:56 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:03:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Experiments must be repeated to establish adequately the validity of a hypothesis. So your proposition would apply best to instances of endlessly repeated experiments, such?as writing a series of love sonnets in?Victorianese and in iambic pentameter. (But, yes.) Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:52:35 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. c On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory results. > You?don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you don't > make a stab at it. > Amicalement, > Alex > > . > > Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce a > negative result, which is meaningful. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 15:36:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:36:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D 45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> On 1/30/2011 2:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which > the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. > > c How would you know in advance that that would happen without doing the experiment? But this is a silly discussion. A work of value can only result from many experiments yielding many results from which a few are exploited. All fine poems are based on successful experiments. I simply prefer that those experiments be mine rather than those from the prime of poets active fifty or more years ago. --Bob From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 15:48:16 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:48:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D 45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wonder,?Bob, if you might demonstrate how one of your mathemaku works? I'm not at all familiar with the reading protocols; I've been known to indulge in rebuses, logic puzzles?and the like, but I'm not so sure that's the right tack. I know, I know, we should read Manywhere at Once etc.,?and I?intend to (perhaps post-dissertation), but in the meantime, I'd love to hear about it spontaneously, as it were.... Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 9:36:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem On 1/30/2011 2:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which > the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. > > c How would you know in advance that that would happen without doing the experiment? But this is a silly discussion.? A work of value can only result from many experiments yielding many results from which a few are exploited.? All fine poems are based on successful experiments.? I simply prefer that those experiments be mine rather than those from the prime of poets active fifty or more years ago. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 16:01:39 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:01:39 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <448024.50609.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <448024.50609.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Granted. Unless the experiment was designed in such a way as to render any > result, positive or negative, meaningless. I wonder what such an example > might be in literature. Any ideas? > And with that, I think we have come full circle. -- Jim The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 30 16:06:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:06:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Conceptualisms In-Reply-To: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> References: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Despite Skip's suggestion of 'inherent worth', I tend to think of David Morice's 10,000 page portal stop as a gimmick...but perhaps it fits under the rubric of 'conceptual'. Veronica Place and Robert Fitterman's NOTES ON CONCEPTUALISM, which I happened to finish this morning and just listed here... http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/ This site/blog being a continuation of a 'project' launched a few years ago on the NewPoetry List. Notes On Concpetualism is a small book, itself conceptually constructed, somewhat like LW's Tractatus and something like a book of quasi-thematically linked aphorisms/quotes. In places it indulges in some jargon-mongering, but overall it's informative and worth reading. Here are a few items from the book that I copied out... Allegorical writing is necessarily inconsistent, containing elaborations, recursions, sub-metaphors, fictive conceits, projections, and guising that combine and recombine both to create the allegorical whole, and to discursively threaten this wholeness. In this sense, allegory implicates G?del?s First Incompleteness Theorem: if it is consistent, it is incomplete; if complete, inconsistent. All conceptual writing is allegorical writing. (p 15) -- capitalism has a knack for devouring and absorbing everything in its path?including any critique of capitalism. (p 30) -- Note that the generative community (the source of the pre-text) is often more inclusive/accessible, more democratic, than the receptive community, the relatively elite/rarified art world. (p 42) -- 10a. Prosody Collage, pastiche, constraint, performance, citation, documentation, and appropriation (part or whole) may be techniques used in conceptual writing. (p 43) -- ?VENTOUSES? Veronica Place visual images are being systematically drained of image, leaving behind the image referent?language. (p 64) -- The problem facing contemporary visual art is that when everything can be art, then only authorship transforms the notion or gesture into art; the problem facing contemporary innovative writing is that having gotten out of the cult of the author, we?re left with either the cult of the performer or the cult of the object, and the object, in order not to be secretly authorial, must be mass-made, and that, as we ought suspect by now, is how democracies go on the march?and the cult of the author finally and fully replaced by the cult of authority. (p 65) -- As much as writers should mind the materiality of language, they need to maintain, not crop, its meaning. (p 67) -- What is an image? An image is a reference. Sometimes to the thing itself, like a portrait. Sometimes to the thing in-itself, like Dante?s Beatrice or de Koonig?s Woman I. The optic can have it all at once, and does. And then, like any good art, it teaches you to linger. (p 69) Veronica Place/Robert Fitterman, Notes On Conceptualisms (Ugly Ducking Presse, 2009) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 16:18:06 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:18:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Nor am I. I think highly of Myer's and poorly or Goldsmith's. I think at lot about Bok's but I can't say I have the same regard for him as I have for Mayer. Anyway, the Morice of *Poetry Comics *and a few other poems of his I've read were of interest in the Bernadette Mayer, that the arresting sense of what it might be to be human slips through in a new way and suggestive of a resonant possibility. That would be my calibration. I.e., although the project might sound silly, he's earned *my* attention. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: > I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: > http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 > I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is > synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of *Poetry Comics* does. The > activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects > by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice > strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have > the time and as they are available. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 16:25:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:25:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D 45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> On 1/30/2011 3:48 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > I wonder, Bob, if you might demonstrate how one of your mathemaku > works? I'm not at all familiar with the reading protocols; I've been > known to indulge in rebuses, logic puzzles and the like, but I'm not > so sure that's the right tack. I know, I know, we should read > Manywhere at Once etc., and I intend to (perhaps post-dissertation), > but in the meantime, I'd love to hear about it spontaneously, as it > were.... > Amicalement, > Alex Alas, I'm always too ready to explain my poems, Alex. I ofter say I compose them only so as to have the pleasure of explaining them. I hope that's not entirely true. Anyway, someone else beat you to request my help, so I can quickly repeat the lesson I then gave. I hope it helps. Each poem (of the four at /Tip of the Knife/ is to be taken as a long division example except without the numbers you'd normally see in such examples. Just keep in mind how long division works (and when I started making these things, I often got mixed up about that). A good idea is to just do one, such as _3_ 2 )7 _6_ 1 2 into 7 gives 3 with a remainder of 1. So in my winter poem, "meadow" into "winter" gives negative "science/scilence" with a remainder of negative "little lame balloonman." The basic idea is the use of some arithmetical operation as a metaphor, so I have "science/scilence" times "meadow" equals "13 5 1 4 15 23," which is a cryptogram for . . . write back if you can't figure it out, but when I tell you what it is, you'll be upset with yourself! In my first long division poem I had the much simpler "rain" times "park" equals "flowers" or something along those lines. In my winter poem "13 5 1 4 15 23" plus the remainder, "little lame balloonman" equals "winter." The balloonman is from E. E. Cummings's poem, "in Just-spring." One other math detail is that I use the absolute value of "science/scilence," which means that what's between the two vertical lines must be positive in value. Hence, because outside the verticals is a minus sign, the whole thing has to be negative, the idea being that winter is the negative season, summer the positive season. I like the connotations of absoluteness, too. A central idea of these poems is the tensions between the extreme abstractness of math and the concreteness of things like winter and spring, and poetry. Oh, and part of the idea of "13 5 1 4 15 23" is the suggestion of winter as a thing of numbers or without flesh. I hope you can now navigate the other three poems in the set. I think the only extras in them are Cummingsesque visual effects. Thanks for showing some interest in my gadgets! all best, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Jan 30 17:26:58 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:26:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8EE3EE469693-12F4-1749D@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Skip, I'm going to take a closer look at DM's work. The Poetry Comics book sounds like fun. I admit I was summarily dismissive for no good reason. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem Nor am I. I think highly of Myer's and poorly or Goldsmith's. I think at lot about Bok's but I can't say I have the same regard for him as I have for Mayer. Anyway, the Morice of Poetry Comics and a few other poems of his I've read were of interest in the Bernadette Mayer, that the arresting sense of what it might be to be human slips through in a new way and suggestive of a resonant possibility. That would be my calibration. I.e., although the project might sound silly, he's earned my attention. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:06 PM, wrote: I'd never heard of him, or encountered his work...here's more info: http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Morice/e/B001K8LX2K/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 I'm not one who holds the view that "experimental," in and of itself, is synonymous with valuable, good, worthwhile, important, enduring, etc.... Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem II'll pay attention to anything David Morice of Poetry Comics does. The activity itself is highly experiemental and parallels some of the projects by Bernadette Mayer. (I use her instead of Kenneth Goldsmith because Morice strives for a quickening sense, not tedium.) I will read patches as I have the time and as they are available. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Jan 30 20:36:10 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:36:10 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've never read-- will be uninteresting to you? I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. c On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/30/2011 2:52 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which >> the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. >> >> c > > How would you know in advance that that would happen without doing the > experiment? > > But this is a silly discussion. ?A work of value can only result from many > experiments yielding many results from which a few are exploited. ?All fine > poems are based on successful experiments. ?I simply prefer that those > experiments be mine rather than those from the prime of poets active fifty > or more years ago. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From chris at chrislott.org Sun Jan 30 20:33:52 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 16:33:52 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Right. Some repetition has some probative value. That value drops off steeply. Bob would probably say that a lot of Wilshberia has long since reached that point of diminished return. I'd say the same about a fair amount of what is claimed to be post-avant but doesn't strike me as anything of the sort. c On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Experiments must be repeated to establish adequately the validity of a > hypothesis. So your proposition would apply best to instances of endlessly > repeated experiments, such?as writing a series of love sonnets > in?Victorianese and in iambic pentameter. (But, yes.) > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ________________________________ > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:52:35 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which > the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. > > c > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: >> On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: >> >> "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory >> results. >> You?don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you >> don't >> make a stab at it. >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> . >> >> Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce >> a >> negative result, which is meaningful. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From junction at earthlink.net Sun Jan 30 20:56:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:56:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Chris, I have no idea what you mean by post-avant, but why don't you show us a poem in that category that you like? Best, Mark At 08:33 PM 1/30/2011, you wrote: >Right. Some repetition has some probative value. That value drops off >steeply. Bob would probably say that a lot of Wilshberia has long >since reached that point of diminished return. I'd say the same about >a fair amount of what is claimed to be post-avant but doesn't strike >me as anything of the sort. > >c > > >On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Alexander Dickow > wrote: > > Experiments must be repeated to establish adequately the validity of a > > hypothesis. So your proposition would apply best to instances of endlessly > > repeated experiments, such as writing a series of love sonnets > > in Victorianese and in iambic pentameter. (But, yes.) > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Chris Lott > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:52:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem > > > > Unless it's mere repetition of an already established result in which > > the value is so close to nil as for the difference to be meaningless. > > > > c > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Bob Grumman > > wrote: > >> On 1/30/2011 2:27 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > >> > >> "Experiments" can fail or not, or produce more or less satisfactory > >> results. > >> You don't know what you'll get in advance, and won't ever know if you > >> don't > >> make a stab at it. > >> Amicalement, > >> Alex > >> > >> . > >> > >> Us scientists would claim that an experiment can never fail, just produce > >> a > >> negative result, which is meaningful. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 21:34:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:34:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D 45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net><130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.y ahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D461FC4.5010305@nut-n-but.net> On 1/30/2011 8:33 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Right. Some repetition has some probative value. That value drops off > steeply. Bob would probably say that a lot of Wilshberia has long > since reached that point of diminished return. I'd say the same about > a fair amount of what is claimed to be post-avant but doesn't strike > me as anything of the sort. > > c > . Chris, I think a lot of poets and critics would say both. Have said both (taking "post-avant" to mean the stranger language and pluraesthetic poets). Alas, only the few can be doing work of the highest value. Then a lot that are doing work that satisfies most readers of poetry, but a lot, too, who are doing lesser work, a lot of which still makes it into print. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jan 30 21:44:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:44:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D46221E.3070802@nut-n-but.net> On 1/30/2011 8:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many > contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've > never read-- will be uninteresting to you? I don't. Not sure what your point is. > I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting > that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that > declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. > > c Not sure what you mean here, either. An experiment that works provides a method that may provide a basis for superior poems for decades. Free verse, for example. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 07:54:39 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "13 5 1 4 15 23" I first thought it was a barcode, and I cannot come up with anything different. Interesting the juxtaposition of meadows and winter, green and white, or if not white, at least fields burnt by the cold. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/30/2011 3:48 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > > I wonder, Bob, if you might demonstrate how one of your mathemaku works? > I'm not at all familiar with the reading protocols; I've been known to > indulge in rebuses, logic puzzles and the like, but I'm not so sure that's > the right tack. I know, I know, we should read Manywhere at Once etc., and > I intend to (perhaps post-dissertation), but in the meantime, I'd love to > hear about it spontaneously, as it were.... > Amicalement, > Alex > > Alas, I'm always too ready to explain my poems, Alex. I ofter say I > compose them only so as to have the pleasure of explaining them. I hope > that's not entirely true. > > Anyway, someone else beat you to request my help, so I can quickly repeat > the lesson I then gave. I hope it helps. > > Each poem (of the four at *Tip of the Knife* is to be taken as a long > division example except without the numbers you'd normally see in such > examples. Just keep in mind how long division works (and when I started > making these things, I often got mixed up about that). A good idea is to > just do one, such as > > *3* > 2 )7 > *6* > 1 > > 2 into 7 gives 3 with a remainder of 1. So in my winter poem, "meadow" > into "winter" gives negative "science/scilence" with a remainder of negative > "little lame balloonman." The basic idea is the use of some arithmetical > operation as a metaphor, so I have "science/scilence" times "meadow" equals > "13 5 1 4 15 23," which is a cryptogram for . . . write back if you can't > figure it out, but when I tell you what it is, you'll be upset with > yourself! In my first long division poem I had the much simpler "rain" > times "park" equals "flowers" or something along those lines. > > In my winter poem "13 5 1 4 15 23" plus the remainder, "little lame > balloonman" equals "winter." The balloonman is from E. E. Cummings's poem, > "in Just-spring." > One other math detail is that I use the absolute value of > "science/scilence," which means that what's between the two vertical lines > must be positive in value. Hence, because outside the verticals is a minus > sign, the whole thing has to be negative, the idea being that winter is the > negative season, summer the positive season. I like the connotations of > absoluteness, too. A central idea of these poems is the tensions between > the extreme abstractness of math and the concreteness of things like winter > and spring, and poetry. Oh, and part of the idea of "13 5 1 4 15 23" is the > suggestion of winter as a thing of numbers or without flesh. > > I hope you can now navigate the other three poems in the set. I think the > only extras in them are Cummingsesque visual effects. > > Thanks for showing some interest in my gadgets! > > all best, Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at arrowheadpress.co.uk Mon Jan 31 08:14:47 2011 From: editor at arrowheadpress.co.uk (Roger Collett) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:14:47 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com><4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> Anny, Just count through the alphabet, A=1, B=2 .......... Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku "13 5 1 4 15 23" I first thought it was a barcode, and I cannot come up with anything different. Interesting the juxtaposition of meadows and winter, green and white, or if not white, at least fields burnt by the cold. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: On 1/30/2011 3:48 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: I wonder, Bob, if you might demonstrate how one of your mathemaku works? I'm not at all familiar with the reading protocols; I've been known to indulge in rebuses, logic puzzles and the like, but I'm not so sure that's the right tack. I know, I know, we should read Manywhere at Once etc., and I intend to (perhaps post-dissertation), but in the meantime, I'd love to hear about it spontaneously, as it were.... Amicalement, Alex Alas, I'm always too ready to explain my poems, Alex. I ofter say I compose them only so as to have the pleasure of explaining them. I hope that's not entirely true. Anyway, someone else beat you to request my help, so I can quickly repeat the lesson I then gave. I hope it helps. Each poem (of the four at Tip of the Knife is to be taken as a long division example except without the numbers you'd normally see in such examples. Just keep in mind how long division works (and when I started making these things, I often got mixed up about that). A good idea is to just do one, such as 3 2 )7 6 1 2 into 7 gives 3 with a remainder of 1. So in my winter poem, "meadow" into "winter" gives negative "science/scilence" with a remainder of negative "little lame balloonman." The basic idea is the use of some arithmetical operation as a metaphor, so I have "science/scilence" times "meadow" equals "13 5 1 4 15 23," which is a cryptogram for . . . write back if you can't figure it out, but when I tell you what it is, you'll be upset with yourself! In my first long division poem I had the much simpler "rain" times "park" equals "flowers" or something along those lines. In my winter poem "13 5 1 4 15 23" plus the remainder, "little lame balloonman" equals "winter." The balloonman is from E. E. Cummings's poem, "in Just-spring." One other math detail is that I use the absolute value of "science/scilence," which means that what's between the two vertical lines must be positive in value. Hence, because outside the verticals is a minus sign, the whole thing has to be negative, the idea being that winter is the negative season, summer the positive season. I like the connotations of absoluteness, too. A central idea of these poems is the tensions between the extreme abstractness of math and the concreteness of things like winter and spring, and poetry. Oh, and part of the idea of "13 5 1 4 15 23" is the suggestion of winter as a thing of numbers or without flesh. I hope you can now navigate the other three poems in the set. I think the only extras in them are Cummingsesque visual effects. Thanks for showing some interest in my gadgets! all best, Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 08:40:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:40:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Conceptualisms In-Reply-To: <8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: By offering a language adequate to experience, poetry creates a reality that is equal to the reality of experience and therefore makes reality palpable, ?real,? understandable. I was trying to understand J or James statement on http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-poetry-matters.html I think that his thought could end in this way: By offering a language adequate to experience, poetry creates a reality that is equal to the reality of experience. And I could continue, which is what interests me in poetry, in the following way: Projected outside the immediate reality of the reader and - or writer, it aquires a more complete meaning which can be suited for events that can seem disconnected from the original context. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, wrote: > Despite Skip's suggestion of 'inherent worth', I tend to think of David > Morice's 10,000 page portal stop as a gimmick...but perhaps it fits under > the rubric of 'conceptual'. > > Veronica Place and Robert Fitterman's NOTES ON CONCEPTUALISM, which I > happened to finish this morning and just listed here... > http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/ > This site/blog being a continuation of a 'project' launched a few years ago > on the NewPoetry List. > > Notes On Concpetualism is a small book, itself conceptually constructed, > somewhat like LW's Tractatus and something like a book of quasi-thematically > linked aphorisms/quotes. In places it indulges in some jargon-mongering, but > overall it's informative and worth reading. > > Here are a few items from the book that I copied out... > > Allegorical writing is necessarily inconsistent, containing elaborations, > recursions, sub-metaphors, fictive conceits, projections, and guising that > combine and recombine both to create the allegorical whole, and to > discursively threaten this wholeness. In this sense, allegory implicates > G?del?s First Incompleteness Theorem: if it is consistent, it is incomplete; > if complete, inconsistent. > > All conceptual writing is allegorical writing. (p 15) > -- > capitalism has a knack for devouring and absorbing everything in its > path?including any critique of capitalism. (p 30) > > -- > Note that the generative community (the source of the pre-text) is often > more inclusive/accessible, more democratic, than the receptive community, > the relatively elite/rarified art world. (p 42) > > -- > 10a. Prosody > > Collage, pastiche, constraint, performance, citation, documentation, and > appropriation (part or whole) may be techniques used in conceptual writing. > (p 43) > > -- > ?VENTOUSES? Veronica Place > > visual images are being systematically drained of image, leaving behind the > image referent?language. (p 64) > > -- > The problem facing contemporary visual art is that when everything can be > art, then only authorship transforms the notion or gesture into art; the > problem facing contemporary innovative writing is that having gotten out of > the cult of the author, we?re left with either the cult of the performer or > the cult of the object, and the object, in order not to be secretly > authorial, must be mass-made, and that, as we ought suspect by now, is how > democracies go on the march?and the cult of the author finally and fully > replaced by the cult of authority. (p 65) > > -- > As much as writers should mind the materiality of language, they need to > maintain, not crop, its meaning. (p 67) > > -- > What is an image? An image is a reference. Sometimes to the thing itself, > like a portrait. Sometimes to the thing in-itself, like Dante?s Beatrice or > de Koonig?s *Woman I*. The optic can have it all at once, and does. And > then, like any good art, it teaches you to linger. (p 69) > > Veronica Place/Robert Fitterman, Notes On Conceptualisms (Ugly Ducking > Presse, 2009) > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 08:47:53 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:47:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> <3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> Message-ID: Meadow ! Brilliant, Roger. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Roger Collett wrote: > Anny, > > Just count through the alphabet, A=1, B=2 .......... > > Roger > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2011 12:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku > > "13 5 1 4 15 23" > I first thought it was a barcode, and I cannot come up with anything > different. > Interesting the juxtaposition of meadows and winter, green and white, or if > not white, at least fields burnt by the cold. > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 1/30/2011 3:48 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: >> >> I wonder, Bob, if you might demonstrate how one of your mathemaku works? >> I'm not at all familiar with the reading protocols; I've been known to >> indulge in rebuses, logic puzzles and the like, but I'm not so sure that's >> the right tack. I know, I know, we should read Manywhere at Once etc., and >> I intend to (perhaps post-dissertation), but in the meantime, I'd love to >> hear about it spontaneously, as it were.... >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> Alas, I'm always too ready to explain my poems, Alex. I ofter say I >> compose them only so as to have the pleasure of explaining them. I hope >> that's not entirely true. >> >> Anyway, someone else beat you to request my help, so I can quickly repeat >> the lesson I then gave. I hope it helps. >> >> Each poem (of the four at *Tip of the Knife* is to be taken as a long >> division example except without the numbers you'd normally see in such >> examples. Just keep in mind how long division works (and when I started >> making these things, I often got mixed up about that). A good idea is to >> just do one, such as >> >> *3* >> 2 )7 >> *6* >> 1 >> >> 2 into 7 gives 3 with a remainder of 1. So in my winter poem, "meadow" >> into "winter" gives negative "science/scilence" with a remainder of negative >> "little lame balloonman." The basic idea is the use of some arithmetical >> operation as a metaphor, so I have "science/scilence" times "meadow" equals >> "13 5 1 4 15 23," which is a cryptogram for . . . write back if you can't >> figure it out, but when I tell you what it is, you'll be upset with >> yourself! In my first long division poem I had the much simpler "rain" >> times "park" equals "flowers" or something along those lines. >> >> In my winter poem "13 5 1 4 15 23" plus the remainder, "little lame >> balloonman" equals "winter." The balloonman is from E. E. Cummings's poem, >> "in Just-spring." >> One other math detail is that I use the absolute value of >> "science/scilence," which means that what's between the two vertical lines >> must be positive in value. Hence, because outside the verticals is a minus >> sign, the whole thing has to be negative, the idea being that winter is the >> negative season, summer the positive season. I like the connotations of >> absoluteness, too. A central idea of these poems is the tensions between >> the extreme abstractness of math and the concreteness of things like winter >> and spring, and poetry. Oh, and part of the idea of "13 5 1 4 15 23" is the >> suggestion of winter as a thing of numbers or without flesh. >> >> I hope you can now navigate the other three poems in the set. I think the >> only extras in them are Cummingsesque visual effects. >> >> Thanks for showing some interest in my gadgets! >> >> all best, Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 31 09:40:18 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:40:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D46C9D2.3000401@nut-n-but.net> On 1/31/2011 7:54 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > "13 5 1 4 15 23" > I first thought it was a barcode, and I cannot come up with anything > different. > Interesting the juxtaposition of meadows and winter, green and white, > or if not white, at least fields burnt by the cold. Anny, think simple childhood codes--or are those for boys only? --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 31 09:41:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:41:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: <3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net> <3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> Message-ID: <4D46CA01.30102@nut-n-but.net> On 1/31/2011 8:14 AM, Roger Collett wrote: > Anny, > Just count through the alphabet, A=1, B=2 .......... > Roger Aw, chucks, I wanted to make her work! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 31 09:44:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:44:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solution to Mathemaku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webma il-m009.sysops.aol.com><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><532328.41170.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4D45D760.6060505@nut-n-but.net><3721E8C182D442E2BABD039DE843DDD8@ROCKY> Message-ID: <4D46CAB7.3050001@nut-n-but.net> On 1/31/2011 8:47 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Meadow ! > Brilliant, Roger. Now solve the code I use in the mathemaku about summer! It's much trickier. --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 31 11:01:55 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:01:55 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Hey Chris, I have no idea what you mean by post-avant, but why don't you > show us a poem in that category that you like? As they say, if you are actually interested, then "just Google it"- the term will reveal itself quickly enough as a currency traded by the Sillimanites. Although, if you actually have no idea what "post-avant" is then you are a fortunate man. Why tempt fate? c From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 31 10:59:44 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 06:59:44 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D46221E.3070802@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <4D46221E.3070802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/30/2011 8:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many >> contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've >> never read-- will be uninteresting to you? > > I don't. ?Not sure what your point is. You've made claims here about poets and poems you've never read. That seems to me much like not performing an experiment when the outcome seems practically certain. >> I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting >> that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that >> declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. >> >> c > > Not sure what you mean here, either. ?An experiment that works provides a > method that may provide a basis for superior poems for decades. ?Free verse, > for example. We were talking about experiments with "negative" outcomes. c From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 11:20:30 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:20:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Conceptualisms In-Reply-To: References: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8F79DEE60539-1BA0-265E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Anny, I should have been clearer when I point to that ars poetica library blog, but the information posted there about the books has been written by the author or the publisher. I just copied it and posted it directly to the blog as way of giving more information about that particular title. So the words you are pointing to are Jay Parini's words and not mine. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 8:40 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Conceptualisms By offering a language adequate to experience, poetry creates a reality that is equal to the reality of experience and therefore makes reality palpable, ?real,? understandable. I was trying to understand J or James statement on http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-poetry-matters.html I think that his thought could end in this way: By offering a language adequate to experience, poetry creates a reality that is equal to the reality of experience. And I could continue, which is what interests me in poetry, in the following way: Projected outside the immediate reality of the reader and - or writer, it aquires a more complete meaning which can be suited for events that can seem disconnected from the original context. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, wrote: Despite Skip's suggestion of 'inherent worth', I tend to think of David Morice's 10,000 page portal stop as a gimmick...but perhaps it fits under the rubric of 'conceptual'. Veronica Place and Robert Fitterman's NOTES ON CONCEPTUALISM, which I happened to finish this morning and just listed here... http://arspoeticalibrary.blogspot.com/ This site/blog being a continuation of a 'project' launched a few years ago on the NewPoetry List. Notes On Concpetualism is a small book, itself conceptually constructed, somewhat like LW's Tractatus and something like a book of quasi-thematically linked aphorisms/quotes. In places it indulges in some jargon-mongering, but overall it's informative and worth reading. Here are a few items from the book that I copied out... Allegorical writing is necessarily inconsistent, containing elaborations, recursions, sub-metaphors, fictive conceits, projections, and guising that combine and recombine both to create the allegorical whole, and to discursively threaten this wholeness. In this sense, allegory implicates G?del?s First Incompleteness Theorem: if it is consistent, it is incomplete; if complete, inconsistent. All conceptual writing is allegorical writing. (p 15) -- capitalism has a knack for devouring and absorbing everything in its path?including any critique of capitalism. (p 30) -- Note that the generative community (the source of the pre-text) is often more inclusive/accessible, more democratic, than the receptive community, the relatively elite/rarified art world. (p 42) -- 10a. Prosody Collage, pastiche, constraint, performance, citation, documentation, and appropriation (part or whole) may be techniques used in conceptual writing. (p 43) -- ?VENTOUSES? Veronica Place visual images are being systematically drained of image, leaving behind the image referent?language. (p 64) -- The problem facing contemporary visual art is that when everything can be art, then only authorship transforms the notion or gesture into art; the problem facing contemporary innovative writing is that having gotten out of the cult of the author, we?re left with either the cult of the performer or the cult of the object, and the object, in order not to be secretly authorial, must be mass-made, and that, as we ought suspect by now, is how democracies go on the march?and the cult of the author finally and fully replaced by the cult of authority. (p 65) -- As much as writers should mind the materiality of language, they need to maintain, not crop, its meaning. (p 67) -- What is an image? An image is a reference. Sometimes to the thing itself, like a portrait. Sometimes to the thing in-itself, like Dante?s Beatrice or de Koonig?s Woman I. The optic can have it all at once, and does. And then, like any good art, it teaches you to linger. (p 69) Veronica Place/Robert Fitterman, Notes On Conceptualisms (Ugly Ducking Presse, 2009) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Jan 31 11:45:29 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:45:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the avoidance. Note that whatever you're talking about isn't monolithic. Which is why I asked what you mean by it. It would be good to know what it is precisely that you seem to resent, and if there are any exceptions. Best, Mark At 11:01 AM 1/31/2011, you wrote: >On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > Hey Chris, I have no idea what you mean by post-avant, but why don't you > > show us a poem in that category that you like? > >As they say, if you are actually interested, then "just Google it"- >the term will reveal itself quickly enough as a currency traded by the >Sillimanites. > >Although, if you actually have no idea what "post-avant" is then you >are a fortunate man. Why tempt fate? > >c >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 31 12:16:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:16:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net><823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mu d.yahoo.com><4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><4D46221E.3070802@nut -n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D46EE85.2040802@nut-n-but.net> On 1/31/2011 10:59 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 1/30/2011 8:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many >>> contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've >>> never read-- will be uninteresting to you? >> I don't. Not sure what your point is. > You've made claims here about poets and poems you've never read. That > seems to me much like not performing an experiment when the outcome > seems practically certain. Right. I don't have time to perform every possible experiment. I perform the ones I think will produce them most interesting results. I leave the others to Wilshberians. Just kidding, Chris. You're certainly right that many experiments are foolish. Our only difference is that I say even the worst of experiments will tell us something of /some /use, and you say they won't. As a practical matter, I would surely agree that many experiments aren't worth doing. I don't think much in terms of experiments, but in terms of conformity: how closely should one's efforts as a poet conform to what others are doing or have done. Who knows. I think perhaps the ideal poet would conform in every possible way to what is being or has been done in poetry--but also do as much as possible in new ways. Cummings was the most unorthodox poet of his time--but also the most traditional--in subject matter, for instance. >>> I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting >>> that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that >>> declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. >>> >>> c >> Not sure what you mean here, either. An experiment that works provides a >> method that may provide a basis for superior poems for decades. Free verse, >> for example. > We were talking about experiments with "negative" outcomes. Okay, I guess I agree with you. I think where /some/ "experimental poets" are concerned, the problem is not that they carry out lots of experiments, but that they are uncritical of the results: as many New-Poetry participants say, they seem to think that if something is experimental or new or innovative or adventurous, it's good. I believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may not be. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Jan 31 12:45:05 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Only 13% of Wikipedia contributors are women... Message-ID: <270874.42503.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Katha Pollitt points out: some of you may have seen this front-page article in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/business/media/31link.html?_r=2&hp As the article points out, because of the absence of women contributors, subjects about women, or of interest to women, are severely scanted. It's pretty shocking, especially when you consider what a standard reference wikipedia is becoming. It occurs to me that many of this list are not only writers but have lots of literary and scholarly expertise -- ********* VIDA: Women in Literary Arts + Interviews Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 31 12:56:39 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:56:39 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8EBF8DCF639E-12F4-14797@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8ECA4E80F706-12F4-15632@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <823922.66958.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D45C082.9080400@nut-n-but.net> <130360.90324.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nothing's really monolithic. But it's for that very reason that I think a simple Google search or browse through the poets Ron Silliman praises is a better way to get a sample than asking me. I don't resent post-avant poetry. After five+ years of trying to it out, I've decided it's a taste that's not for me and determined that most (most = to a greater degree than Sturgeon's Law would suggest) of it is neither particularly experimental or particularly new, though it is often claimed to be so. I'm sure there are exceptions (I've blogged about a few of them in the past, works by Lance Phillips and Tony Tost spring readily to mind) but the experiment of continuing to try to read that kind of work has reached the point where the returns aren't worth it. I only read in that area now when something comes recommended by a trusted friend or acquaintance or filters its way multiple times through the loose social network to demand attention). I don't have time to read everything. c On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Thanks for the avoidance. > > Note that whatever you're talking about isn't monolithic. Which is why I > asked what you mean by it. > > It would be good to know what it is precisely that you seem to resent, and > if there are any exceptions. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 11:01 AM 1/31/2011, you wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >> Hey Chris, I have no idea what you mean by post-avant, but why don't you >> show us a poem in that category that you like? > > As they say, if you are actually interested, then "just Google it"- > the term will reveal itself quickly enough as a currency traded by the > Sillimanites. > > Although, if you actually have no idea what "post-avant" is then you > are a fortunate man. Why tempt fate? > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 12:59:03 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:59:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <8CD8F79DEE60539-1BA0-265E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8F79DEE60539-1BA0-265E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8F87AE1424CF-1BA0-4962@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard Fairey, et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the next big thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, perseverance, etc., and it's fun. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 31 13:03:29 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:03:29 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: <4D46EE85.2040802@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <4D46EE85.2040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: "I believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may not be." Hey, I agree with you. That's two agreements-- or close enough-- in just a few hours. I feel like retiring from mailing list life. At any rate, I agree, though admiring the effort abstractly is different from spending time and effort reading the results. Based on my experience with it, I think most post-avant poetry is dull, dull, dull (so is most country music, so are most romance novels)... but I admire the effort artists put in nonetheless. c On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 1/31/2011 10:59 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > On 1/30/2011 8:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many > contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've > never read-- will be uninteresting to you? > > I don't. ?Not sure what your point is. > > You've made claims here about poets and poems you've never read. That > seems to me much like not performing an experiment when the outcome > seems practically certain. > > Right.? I don't have time to perform every possible experiment.? I perform > the ones I think will produce them most interesting results.? I leave the > others to Wilshberians. > > Just kidding, Chris.? You're certainly right that many experiments are > foolish.? Our only difference is that I say even the worst of experiments > will tell us something of some use, and you say they won't.? As a practical > matter, I would surely agree that many experiments aren't worth doing. > > I don't think much in terms of experiments, but in terms of conformity: how > closely should one's efforts as a poet conform to what others are doing or > have done.? Who knows.? I think perhaps the ideal poet would conform in > every possible way to what is being or has been done in poetry--but also do > as much as possible in new ways.? Cummings was the most unorthodox poet of > his time--but also the most traditional--in subject matter, for instance. > > > I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting > that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that > declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. > > c > > Not sure what you mean here, either. ?An experiment that works provides a > method that may provide a basis for superior poems for decades. ?Free verse, > for example. > > We were talking about experiments with "negative" outcomes. > > Okay, I guess I agree with you. > > I think where some "experimental poets" are concerned, the problem is not > that they carry out lots of experiments, but that they are uncritical of the > results: as many New-Poetry participants say, they seem to think that if > something is experimental or new or innovative or adventurous, it's good.? I > believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may not be. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 13:09:15 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:09:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <8CD8F87AE1424CF-1BA0-4962@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <8CD8ED8B7CA472F-12F4-16848@webmail-m009.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8F79DEE60539-1BA0-265E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8F87AE1424CF-1BA0-4962@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: What Finnegan said. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:59 AM, wrote: > I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ > > It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard > Fairey, et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the > next big thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, > perseverance, etc., and it's fun. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 13:10:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:10:25 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net> <4D46EE85.2040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Most poetry is dull, dull, dull. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > "I believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may > not be." Hey, I agree with you. That's two agreements-- or close > enough-- in just a few hours. I feel like retiring from mailing list > life. > > At any rate, I agree, though admiring the effort abstractly is > different from spending time and effort reading the results. Based on > my experience with it, I think most post-avant poetry is dull, dull, > dull (so is most country music, so are most romance novels)... but I > admire the effort artists put in nonetheless. > > c > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > On 1/31/2011 10:59 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Bob Grumman > > wrote: > > > > On 1/30/2011 8:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > > > How do you know in advance that the work yet to come from so many > > contemporary poets-- indeed, even the existing work of poets you've > > never read-- will be uninteresting to you? > > > > I don't. Not sure what your point is. > > > > You've made claims here about poets and poems you've never read. That > > seems to me much like not performing an experiment when the outcome > > seems practically certain. > > > > Right. I don't have time to perform every possible experiment. I > perform > > the ones I think will produce them most interesting results. I leave the > > others to Wilshberians. > > > > Just kidding, Chris. You're certainly right that many experiments are > > foolish. Our only difference is that I say even the worst of experiments > > will tell us something of some use, and you say they won't. As a > practical > > matter, I would surely agree that many experiments aren't worth doing. > > > > I don't think much in terms of experiments, but in terms of conformity: > how > > closely should one's efforts as a poet conform to what others are doing > or > > have done. Who knows. I think perhaps the ideal poet would conform in > > every possible way to what is being or has been done in poetry--but also > do > > as much as possible in new ways. Cummings was the most unorthodox poet > of > > his time--but also the most traditional--in subject matter, for instance. > > > > > > I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial in noting > > that the value of an experiment that provides confirmation is one that > > declines rather precipitously after only a few repetitions. > > > > c > > > > Not sure what you mean here, either. An experiment that works provides a > > method that may provide a basis for superior poems for decades. Free > verse, > > for example. > > > > We were talking about experiments with "negative" outcomes. > > > > Okay, I guess I agree with you. > > > > I think where some "experimental poets" are concerned, the problem is not > > that they carry out lots of experiments, but that they are uncritical of > the > > results: as many New-Poetry participants say, they seem to think that if > > something is experimental or new or innovative or adventurous, it's > good. I > > believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may not > be. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jan 31 13:29:45 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:29:45 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop Message-ID: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> In a message dated 1/31/2011 11:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ > > It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard > Fairey, et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the next > big thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, > perseverance, etc., and it's fun. > > Finnegan > > I thought it was pretty good. There's quite a bit of comment about whether or not it's a fake documentary. That said, I was amazed at how cliched all of Mr. Brainwash's artworks were--mostly recycled pop icons of the 60s. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jan 31 13:55:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:55:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Publishes 10,000-Page Poem In-Reply-To: References: <8CD8E1BF0112952-17CC-DA84@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <4D454B0B.8050905@nut-n-but.net> <4D45CBB7.5010209@nut-n-but.net><4D46EE85.2040802@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4D4705AD.6060208@nut-n-but.net> On 1/31/2011 1:03 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > "I believe the effort is always praiseworthy, but that the outcome may > not be." Hey, I agree with you. That's two agreements-- or close > enough-- in just a few hours. I feel like retiring from mailing list > life. I'm relieved you agree with me on the above, Chris--I was actually trying to be agreeable. > At any rate, I agree, though admiring the effort abstractly is > different from spending time and effort reading the results. Based on > my experience with it, I think most post-avant poetry is dull, dull, > dull (so is most country music, so are most romance novels)... but I > admire the effort artists put in nonetheless. > > c > Just to note that I totally reject the term, "post-avant," as I previously totally rejected the term, "post-modernist." Neither has been saisfactorily defined. Is "post-avant" supposed to refer exclusively to what it called "language poetry," though no one but I has bothered to define that, as far as I know. (I define it simply as poetry in which syntax, inflection, orthography of some combination of the preceding are of central aesthetic significance. I don't consider non sequiturs to have anything to do with it.) --Bob --Bob From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jan 31 13:55:03 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:55:03 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Only 13% of Wikipedia contributors are women... In-Reply-To: <270874.42503.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <270874.42503.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You beat me to posting this. It's interesting to see the disparity in a resource that has no editorial gatekeepers. c On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:45 AM, amy king wrote: > Katha Pollitt points out: > > some of you may have seen this front-page article in the NY Times: > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/business/media/31link.html?_r=2&hp > As the article points out, because of the absence of women contributors, > subjects about women, or of interest to women, are severely scanted. ?It's > pretty shocking, especially when you consider what a standard reference > wikipedia is becoming. ?It occurs to me that many of this list are not only > writers but have lots of literary and scholarly expertise -- > > > > > > ********* > VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts > +?Interviews > Amy's Alias > +?http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 14:03:04 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:03:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> References: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:29 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 1/31/2011 11:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ > > It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard Fairey, > et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the next big > thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, > perseverance, etc., and it's fun. > > Finnegan > > > I thought it was pretty good. There's quite a bit of comment about whether > or not it's a fake documentary. That said, I was amazed at how cliched all > of Mr. Brainwash's artworks were--mostly recycled pop icons of the 60s. I think that was one of the points, Sam, though the machinations in the art world are always valid. Otherwise, a fun film. -- Jim The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 14:35:22 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:35:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> References: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD8F95229199D9-2450-1002@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Sam, I thought Thierry's work looked like mainstream Texas art that you can find in most Dallas & San Antonio galleries? Even if it was a tall tale (and there were places in which disbelief had to be suspended), the back drop of the real street artists, the art world itself, the kind viral frenzy that can be set off by any spectacle, all that seemed 'real time' to me. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In a message dated 1/31/2011 11:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard Fairey, et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the next big thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, perseverance, etc., and it's fun. Finnegan I thought it was pretty good. There's quite a bit of comment about whether or not it's a fake documentary. That said, I was amazed at how cliched all of Mr. Brainwash's artworks were--mostly recycled pop icons of the 60s. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 14:36:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:36:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> References: <4c218.7f2d3f1a.3a785999@cs.com> Message-ID: I love fake documentaries. Wish we had more of them. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:29 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 1/31/2011 11:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > I recommend Exit Thru The Gift Shop. > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587707/ > > It's about the international 'street art' movement (Banksy, Shepard Fairey, > et al), it's about the art world and how it attaches itself to the next big > thing, but mostly it's about individual artistic audacity, bravado, > perseverance, etc., and it's fun. > > Finnegan > > > I thought it was pretty good. There's quite a bit of comment about whether > or not it's a fake documentary. That said, I was amazed at how cliched all > of Mr. Brainwash's artworks were--mostly recycled pop icons of the 60s. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jan 31 15:49:24 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:49:24 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop Message-ID: <385d1.59a9b9c4.3a787a54@cs.com> In a message dated 1/31/2011 1:35:46 PM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > I thought Thierry's work looked like mainstream Texas art that you can > find in most Dallas & San Antonio galleries? > > I must admit it looked better than the stuff Jerry Jones put up in Texas Stadium. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 15:56:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:56:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In-Reply-To: <385d1.59a9b9c4.3a787a54@cs.com> References: <385d1.59a9b9c4.3a787a54@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD8FA066B49361-1190-F6C@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> A connoissewer of sorts? -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 3:49 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] movie recommendation: Exit Thru The Gift Shop In a message dated 1/31/2011 1:35:46 PM Central Standard Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: I thought Thierry's work looked like mainstream Texas art that you can find in most Dallas & San Antonio galleries? I thought Thierry's work looked like mainstream Texas art that you can find in most Dallas & San Antonio galleries? I must admit it looked better than the stuff Jerry Jones put up in Texas Stadium. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 18:04:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:04:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ursprache turns 5 In-Reply-To: <8CD8FB1D8FC3702-169C-349CA@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD621C576ECD8D-138C-FB09@webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com> <8CD6776617934A3-79C-E0E8@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> <8CD69CD5BC48C5F-C30-EBDB@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7F4D4BB1A983-166C-60A5@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <8CD7FD87DC1072A-1244-19D7@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> <8CD853E60B41499-1BA8-44C8@webmail-m055.sysops.aol.com> <8CD861E6B09AE95-8EC-1CE3@webmail-m042.sysops.aol.com> <8CD89FED5AB78A3-1B20-5D65@web-mmc-m07.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8FB173619104-169C-34950@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com> <8CD8FB1D8FC3702-169C-349CA@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD8FB247AA22A0-169C-34A6E@webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com> My blog 'ursprache' http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ turned 5 years old recently. Over 1100 aphoristic entries re poetry/poetics and a lot of quotes along the way like the one below... Finnegan -- All these poems where it is merely the Poem that is the question?a whole poetry with no other substance than itself! What would we say of a prayer whose object was religion? ?E. M. Cioran, The Trouble With Being Born, translated by Richard Howard (Arcade Publishing, 1998) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 19:17:25 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:17:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] pos try to overwhelm pols in DC Message-ID: <8CD8FBC89E019DF-16A0-4398@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> AWP Conference starts Wedneday... http://www.awpwriter.org/conference/2011sched.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Jan 31 20:49:25 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:49:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sor Juana sleeps here Message-ID: <8CD8FC963A30CC9-16A0-591A@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com> http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/entertainment/2011/01/31/scientists-use-dna-try-confirm-remains-mexican-poets/# Scientists use DNA to try to confirm remains are Mexican poet's Mexican scientists plan to take DNA from the remains believed to be those of 17th-century poet Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz and compare it to samples from her sister's descendants or blood from the writer's signature on a document, academic Carmen Lopez-Portillo Romano said. Lopez-Portillo, who is president of Mexico City's Universidad del Claustro de Sor Juana, told Efe the tests should clear up any questions about the authenticity of the writer's remains and help determine where they will be kept on a permanent basis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: