From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 1 06:21:06 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 03:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] What Iowa Means To Me, McSweeney Style In-Reply-To: <8CE1DFFB45A1472-22D4-260BD@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE1DFFB45A1472-22D4-260BD@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1312194066.98106.YahooMailNeo@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've read things by Joyelle that I like, but I'm afraid I really didn't like this one at all. Full of untruths, and what the f is "Art itself"?!? Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 3:15 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] What Iowa Means To Me, McSweeney Style http://nplusonemag.com/iowa-occult-a-mutter-pedagogy-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-vomit-art What stuck in my throat from Iowa: Write like you?re dead?JG. Oh stop worrying about the line break; when this class ends today, no one?s every going to read this poem again.?JG. Irony is when you don?t call things by their right names. And when you don?t call things by their right names, that?s what the Nazis did.?JG. If you write with too many contemporary references, your poems will be dated.?JG. Little knuckles of knowledge like the rolled goatbones by which the Ancients told the future, carve me up like the ripped out entrails by which the Ancients told the future, scatter me like entrail-birds into the dawn sky, by which the Ancients judged which way the future lies. An inverted, occult version of Iowa pedagogy. A workshop occult. Arcana. = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 09:18:15 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:18:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2012 Subscription Sale! 40% Off! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ** Click to view this email in a browser [image: AugNewsletter] 2011 Subscription Sale! Our annual subscription sale happens every August for thirty days only?and this year it?s 40% off the list price of $122.50, or $73.50?a savings of $49 and a price of about $10 per book. In addition, we?ll ship it directly to your home at no extra charge. Take a look at what we?re publishing this year and you won?t be able to resist: [image: NoGrave2in72 2]No Grave Can Hold My Body Down Aaron McCollough The spectrum of American folk culture, ?this stuff colloquial with tongues in dust / by stuff of high prophecy,? informs this book. McCollough offsets elevated language with manic and unheard prayers, folksongs that answer the mandates of the Bible, and a travelogue that speaks in Medieval lyrics. As McCollough leads us across ?a land in love with want,? imagined thresholds become concrete landscapes, the things that bind us are cast aside, and we are encouraged to mourn the remains of the world as we exhume our buried wanderlust. The book?s inspiration is the music of John Fahey, and the poems take his song titles for their own. ?A bravura experiment in matching literary modernism with the canon of traditional American musics,? writes David Grubbs. (September) [image: Re2in72]Re- Kristi Maxwell These poem cycles explore relationships both human and linguistic. Responsive (and responses) to the multiple connections between words, the poems create a narrative where intimacy and sensuality are revealed in the spaces between: ?Logic a device that keeps wonder at bay. / The bay where they docked and will dock again.? The repetitions-with-difference of Re-suggest that the seemingly contradictory notions of stability and change are reciprocal. ?Observing the ?he and she? of Kristi Maxwell?s Re- at close range is like watching animals mate in the wild . . . . Maxwell?s is a rich, playfully serious (and seriously playful) language that shape-shifts right in step with ?him and her,? leaving us agape at the layered acrobatics of what keeps a couple in sync.? (September) [image: click-red] [image: Sancta2in72]Sancta Andrew Grace This book-length poem is in the voice of a speaker who brings the tatters of his life to a cabin in the woods and through brief, often fractured missives, breaks down and rebuilds himself by becoming, out of desperation, a naturalist for whom each of the landscape?s particulars offers a glimpse of salvation. ?Sancta is about a retreat (to a cabin in the woods)?but this is no Walden Pond. Like Alex in A Clockwork Orange, Grace appears to have his eyes taped open to witness ?Puddles blitzed by blood fly hatch? and the rest of nature?s bounty. The language pops and sizzles. Here the poet?s perennial project of attention is raised to the pitch of pain and is enjoyable (for the reader) nonetheless.??Rae Armantrout (January) [image: Chinoiserie2in72]Chinoiserie Karen Rigby 2011 Sawtooth Poetry Prize, judged by Paul Hoover ?Karen Rigby sees with feeling the magic of things shaped by language. But here also are the musical cadence, subject range, and ceremonial precision of true poetry. Such words can be recognized, through two thick walls, for the subtlety of their murmur: ?Of creamware, only stacked and brittle confusion. / We bargain daylight out of black bread.? This is, quite simply, a gorgeous and powerful book.? ?Paul Hoover, judge of the 2011 Sawtooth Poetry Prize (January) [image: click-pink] [image: Obedience2in72]Obedience Chris Vitiello Readable forwards, backwards, and laterally, this is poetry of the scientific method, not of any mere aesthetic or theoretical strain. From its dedication ?for the word ?this?? to its cascading sentences that demand ?Explain yourself to this dot ? ? or observe ?The first word was a command,? Vitiello?s unique Obedience creates a reading experience of poetry that borders on the compulsive. ?The title of this book should be the entirety of the text of this book over again,? the author suggests before urging the reader: ?Go on.? (March) [image: MyLoveCover2in72 2]My Love Is a Dead Arctic Explorer Paige Ackerson-Kiely ?Exploration begins with an imported meadow and ends with desire?s promise?an arc explorers must continually chase and resist, will and reject. In My Love Is a Dead Arctic Explorer, Paige Ackerson-Kiely knows what we?re up against, and she understands its belatedness. ?[T]he only thing I could recognize was my own hunger,? she writes, but a host of characters lives in this chorus of the I, both known and unknown, family and strangers, near and estranged. It?s a brilliant, ongoing journey of hope and crisis. And it?s a brilliant book.? ?John Gallaher (March) [image: Enigma2in72]Enigma and Light David Mutschlecner Through its sparse yet expansive lyricism, this book enacts ?a complex gestural nest,? where thought is created in the spaces between poets and philosophers (Stein, Dante, Heidegger) and visual artists (Agnes Martin, Martin Puryear, the Gee?s Bend Quilters). This intertextuality bares the poem to its historical tendons, where the taxidermied swallow may thrive as a bottled ship. Through luminous resonances, the poet?s work is questioned and affirmed as song which exists ?at the center of incredible volume.? (May) [image: click-turq] Subscriptions help support the Press?and we value your support! ------------------------------ Join Us on Facebook! [image: facebook1 2]If you?re on Facebook, search out the Ahsahta Press page and click ?Like? to become a friend of ours. You can keep up with events Ahsahta Press authors have, learn about new reviews, and generally stay abreast of what?s happening with the Press. <#13183ee6430d83d4_> ------------------------------ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe ------------------------------ Ahsahta Press Boise State University 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1525 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. [image: Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse!] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 1 12:30:06 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 11:30:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Fulton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> I learned just last night of the death of editor/publisher/author, Len Fulton, 77. All I'll say here is that I'll miss him--and that he did far more for American poetry over the past fifty years with substantially less money than /Poetry/, the /New Yorker/, /American Poetry Review/ and /The Atlantic/ combined--though it will probably take another fifty years for the poetry establishment to recognize it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 11:38:02 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 17:38:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Fulton In-Reply-To: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I am very sorry for your loss. Hugh Fox commemorates him: http://theliteraryunderground.org/blog/2011/07/28/california-small-press-publisher-len-fulton-passes-away-at-77-harriet-staff-harriet-the-blog-the-poetry-foundation/ On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I learned just last night of the death of editor/publisher/author, Len > Fulton, 77. All I'll say here is that I'll miss him--and that he did far > more for American poetry over the past fifty years with substantially less > money than *Poetry*, the *New Yorker*, *American Poetry Review* and *The > Atlantic* combined--though it will probably take another fifty years for > the poetry establishment to recognize it. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 11:45:07 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 11:45:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Truck: Change of drivers/editors for August 2011 Message-ID: Many thanks to Skip Fox for seeing us through July. The driver/editor for the month of August is Ken Wolman. Welcome Ken. Drive carefully. http://halvard-johnson.blogspot.com/ "Literature is news that stays news." --Ezra Pound Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 1 13:08:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 12:08:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Fulton In-Reply-To: References: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E36DD70.7060609@nut-n-but.net> On 8/1/2011 10:38 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am very sorry for your loss. Hugh Fox commemorates him: > http://theliteraryunderground.org/blog/2011/07/28/california-small-press-publisher-len-fulton-passes-away-at-77-harriet-staff-harriet-the-blog-the-poetry-foundation/ > Thanks, Anny. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 1 16:11:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Len Fulton In-Reply-To: References: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1312229503.280.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm also sorry to hear about your loss, Bob. &, as you've made clear, it's our loss. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Len Fulton I am very sorry for your loss. Hugh Fox commemorates him: http://theliteraryunderground.org/blog/2011/07/28/california-small-press-publisher-len-fulton-passes-away-at-77-harriet-staff-harriet-the-blog-the-poetry-foundation/ On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: I learned just last night of the death of editor/publisher/author, Len Fulton, 77.? All I'll say here is that I'll miss him--and that he did far more for American poetry over the past fifty years with substantially less money than Poetry, the New Yorker, American Poetry Review and The Atlantic combined--though it will probably take another fifty years for the poetry establishment to recognize it. > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 1 17:19:41 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 14:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Len Fulton In-Reply-To: <1312229503.280.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> <1312229503.280.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1312233581.49912.YahooMailNeo@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> California Small-Press Publisher Len Fulton Passes Away at 77By Harriet Staff We are sad to note the passing of a lovely person and key player in the small-press world, Len Fulton, the force behind Dustbooks Publishing and Small Press Review, who died of lung cancer last Sunday morning. Len, who was 77, also worked in California politics, acting as a Fifth District Supervisor in Chico. According to a longtime friend, he was ?an artist, talented writer and playwright who had an interest in politics.? Remembrances abound in the Paradise Post. One of the most striking is from friend and writer Hugh Fox, who writes about Fulton in detail: Like saying goodbye to Debussy or Hemingway or H.G. Wells. I?first met Fulton in Berkeley in 1968 when we founded COSMEP, a small press org. that had yearly conventions here, there and everywhere: St. Paul, Minnesota, New Orleans, New York, you name it. And everyone would be there, all the editors of small presses and lit mags. And poets and other writers. Always reading-shows, and I?d always read. >I got to know EVERYONE in the literary scene. And visited Fulton up in his place in Paradise, California, way in the middle of nowhere, or everywhere, if what you loved was California wilderness. > > >Tall dark-haired, a little moustache, always bright, on the ball, kind of Harvard professorish, but at the same time a kind of exploratory cowboy explorer always moving further into the essence of Nature itself. For years, two or three times a year I?d get a huge envelope filled with books and literary reviews to review for SMALL PRESS REVIEW, and he slowly turned me into a kind of central writer for the mag. Which I loved. Sadly COSMEP slowly disappeared over the years. Run by Richard Morris in San Francisco, it?s a book in itself that would go through the slow decapitations of all our dreams and hopes. But Morris died from cancer and COSMEP kind of died with him. There?s a huge file over in Special Collections at the Michigan State University library dealing with my connections with the death of COSMEP. > > >A couple of years back Fulton turned SPR into an on-line mag, which I wasn?t crazy about. But he?d always send me a printed copy too, and I?ve got this huge file in my bookcases, years and years and years of copies with my reviews in them. >In the last few years he became increasingly solitary. Suffering from lung cancer, but not aware that was what was going on. When I recently told him that I?m dying from cancer, he wrote a beautiful letter back and mentioned he wasn?t ?quite up to it? either. But I don?t think he was aware it was lung cancer. > > >He was/is a central figure in the development of literary culture in the U.S. He published an INTERNATIONAL DIRECTORY OF LITTLE MAGAZINES AND SMALL PRESSES which I always found of central importance in finding publishers for my books and articles. An odd name for a press ? Dustbooks. Always aware of the transience of life and everything surrounding him/us. Always Se?or High Concentration, High Seriousness. I couldn?t believe the size of the library in his Paradise ranchhouse. I asked him ?Any of my stuff here?,? and he walked over the showed me volume after volume after volume, almost everything I?d ever written, the whole library a veritable treasure house of literary treasures. 2011-07-28 ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: "New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Len Fulton I'm also sorry to hear about your loss, Bob. &, as you've made clear, it's our loss. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Len Fulton I am very sorry for your loss. Hugh Fox commemorates him: http://theliteraryunderground.org/blog/2011/07/28/california-small-press-publisher-len-fulton-passes-away-at-77-harriet-staff-harriet-the-blog-the-poetry-foundation/ On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: I learned just last night of the death of editor/publisher/author, Len Fulton, 77.? All I'll say here is that I'll miss him--and that he did far more for American poetry over the past fifty years with substantially less money than Poetry, the New Yorker, American Poetry Review and The Atlantic combined--though it will probably take another fifty years for the poetry establishment to recognize it. > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 1 18:55:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:55:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Len Fulton In-Reply-To: <1312229503.280.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E36D48E.4010700@nut-n-but.net> <1312229503.280.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E372EC4.10202@nut-n-but.net> On 8/1/2011 3:11 PM, stephen russell wrote: > I'm also sorry to hear about your loss, Bob. &, as you've made clear, > it's our loss. Thanks, Stephen. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 01:59:17 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:59:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] here's where we are in EU Message-ID: there is very little poetry and a lot of raw truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyePCRkq620&feature=related forwarded by Carol Novack, poet. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 09:56:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 15:56:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the search for the perfect poem? Message-ID: The trick naturally is what Duncan learned years ago and tried to teach us - not to search for the perfect poem but to let your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore and retreat but never by fully realized (confined) within the boundaries of one poem. This is where we were wrong and he was right, but he complicated things for us by saying that there is no such thing as good or bad poetry. There is - but not in relation to a single poem. There is really no single poem. Jack Spicer, from: Second letter (from Admonitions) http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/spicer/adletter2.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 2 10:14:30 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein Message-ID: <1312294470.35377.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?2?sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? ? All the Whiskey in Heaven ? by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again*************************************Presence???????????????? ??The little girl is afraid of the dark:????????????????????? is it as light as a duck????????????????????? does a feather feel sad to you??Her father reads to?her.It's a story about her mother:?????????????????????? how old is your anger?????????????????????? does the rain?cast a?shadow?????????????????????? where does it live???What about his story????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????that unwritten chapter without an author:???Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow?that doesn't break???The little?girl listens to her father,?he reads: It's a story about his wife,?a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night.????????????????????????? how deep is the weather???December's last breath,?the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather,?unable to stand:???????????????????????? does your mother still play with you?????????????????????????must snow melt so soon?????????????????????????where does it hide??The little girl hears her mother:??????????????????????????do dreams float????????????????????????? is my voice a feather????????????????????????? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping????????????????????????? what's taller than a wish??Which angel holds in her handyour first and last names, and all of their secrets??The little girl is tired.She listens to her father.The little girl falls asleep.???????????????????????????????????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 2 10:19:15 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1312294470.35377.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1312294755.6962.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> You want to talk 'bout a body of WorK ... bring it On ... --- On Tue, 8/2/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:14 AM ?2?sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? ? All the Whiskey in Heaven ? by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again*************************************Presence???????????????? ??The little girl is afraid of the dark:????????????????????? is it as light as a duck????????????????????? does a feather feel sad to you??Her father reads to?her.It's a story about her mother:?????????????????????? how old is your anger?????????????????????? does the rain?cast a?shadow?????????????????????? where does it live???What about his story????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????that unwritten chapter without an author:???Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow?that doesn't break???The little?girl listens to her father,?he reads: It's a story about his wife,?a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night.????????????????????????? how deep is the weather???December's last breath,?the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather,?unable to stand:???????????????????????? does your mother still play with you?????????????????????????must snow melt so soon?????????????????????????where does it hide??The little girl hears her mother:??????????????????????????do dreams float????????????????????????? is my voice a feather????????????????????????? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping????????????????????????? what's taller than a wish??Which angel holds in her handyour first and last names, and all of their secrets??The little girl is tired.She listens to her father.The little girl falls asleep.???????????????????????????????????????????????? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 2 10:37:02 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:37:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1312294470.35377.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1312294470.35377.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E380B8E.4080200@louisiana.edu> I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): *To My Valentine* More than a catbird hates a cat, Or a criminal hates a clue, Or the Axis hates the United States, That's how much I love you. I love you more than a duck can swim, And more than a grapefruit squirts, I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, And more than a toothache hurts. As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, Or a juggler hates a shove, As a hostess detests unexpected guests, That's how much you I love. I love you more than a wasp can sting, And more than the subway jerks, I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, And more than a hangnail irks. I swear to you by the stars above, And below, if such there be, As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, That's how you're loved by me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: > 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? > All the Whiskey in Heaven > by Charles Bernstein > > Not for all the whiskey in heaven > Not for all the flies in Vermont > Not for all the tears in the basement > Not for a million trips to Mars > > Not if you paid me in diamonds > Not if you paid me in pearls > Not if you gave me your pinky ring > Not if you gave me your curls > > Not for all the fire in hell > Not for all the blue in the sky > Not for an empire of my own > Not even for peace of mind > > No, never, I'll never stop loving you > Not till my heart beats its last > And even then in my words and my songs > I will love you all over again > ************************************* > > Presence > > The little girl is afraid of the dark: > > /is it as light as a duck?/ > > / does a feather feel sad to you?/ > > Her father reads to her. > > It's a story about her mother: > > / how old is your anger?/ > > / does the rain cast a shadow?/ > > / where does it live?/ > > What about /his /story? > > that unwritten chapter without an author: > > /Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break?/ > > The little girl listens to her father, > > he reads: It's a story about his wife, > > a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. > > / how deep is the weather?/ > > December's last breath, > > the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, > > unable to stand: > > / does your mother still play with you?/ > > / must snow melt so soon?/ > > / where does it hide?/ > > The little girl hears her mother: > > / do dreams float?/ > > / is my voice a feather?/ > > / does the moon change colors while she's > sleeping?/ > > / what's taller than a wish?/ > > /Which angel holds in her hand/ > > /your first and last names, and all of their secrets?/ > > // > > The little girl is tired. > > She listens to her father. > > The little girl falls asleep. > > // > > // > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 2 14:57:25 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 11:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E380B8E.4080200@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1312311445.18954.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is gibberish. ? I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): To My Valentine ? More than a catbird hates a cat, Or a criminal hates a clue, Or the Axis hates the United States, That?s how much I love you. ? I love you more than a duck can swim, And more than a grapefruit squirts, I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, And more than a toothache hurts. ? As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, Or a juggler hates a shove, As a hostess detests unexpected guests, That?s how much you I love. ? I love you more than a wasp can sting, And more than the subway jerks, I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, And more than a hangnail irks. ? I swear to you by the stars above, And below, if such there be, As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, That?s how you?re loved by me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * best, Jerry ? On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: ?2?sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? ? All the Whiskey in Heaven ? by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again*************************************Presence???????????????? ??The little girl is afraid of the dark:????????????????????? is it as light as a duck????????????????????? does a feather feel sad to you??Her father reads to?her.It's a story about her mother:?????????????????????? how old is your anger?????????????????????? does the rain?cast a?shadow?????????????????????? where does it live???What about his story????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????that unwritten chapter without an author:???Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow?that doesn't break???The little?girl listens to her father,?he reads: It's a story about his wife,?a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night.????????????????????????? how deep is the weather???December's last breath,?the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather,?unable to stand:???????????????????????? does your mother still play with you?????????????????????????must snow melt so soon?????????????????????????where does it hide??The little girl hears her mother:??????????????????????????do dreams float????????????????????????? is my voice a feather????????????????????????? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping????????????????????????? what's taller than a wish??Which angel holds in her handyour first and last names, and all of their secrets??The little girl is tired.She listens to her father.The little girl falls asleep.???????????????????????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 2 15:10:07 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:10:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1312311445.18954.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1312311445.18954.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes is his "list poems." Best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. > There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. > The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman offered a > sensible paragraph or 2 on this exact topic. But most of what I've > seen in print is > gibberish. > I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. > sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with > Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection) because it's inexplicable. > What's he really doing? Anny B said he wrote it for his daughter, but > is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning > anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. > spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a > formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm > sure of ... mostly -- > > --- On *Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire //* wrote: > > > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM > > I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion > about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an > ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It > feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of > his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the > poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the > workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, > but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't > stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, > by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of > "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional > linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash > messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): > > *To My Valentine* > > More than a catbird hates a cat, > > Or a criminal hates a clue, > > Or the Axis hates the United States, > > That's how much I love you. > > I love you more than a duck can swim, > > And more than a grapefruit squirts, > > I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, > > And more than a toothache hurts. > > As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, > > Or a juggler hates a shove, > > As a hostess detests unexpected guests, > > That's how much you I love. > > I love you more than a wasp can sting, > > And more than the subway jerks, > > I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, > > And more than a hangnail irks. > > I swear to you by the stars above, > > And below, if such there be, > > As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, > > That's how you're loved by me. > > > * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * > > best, > > Jerry > > > On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: > >> 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? >> All the Whiskey in Heaven >> by Charles Bernstein >> >> Not for all the whiskey in heaven >> Not for all the flies in Vermont >> Not for all the tears in the basement >> Not for a million trips to Mars >> >> Not if you paid me in diamonds >> Not if you paid me in pearls >> Not if you gave me your pinky ring >> Not if you gave me your curls >> >> Not for all the fire in hell >> Not for all the blue in the sky >> Not for an empire of my own >> Not even for peace of mind >> >> No, never, I'll never stop loving you >> Not till my heart beats its last >> And even then in my words and my songs >> I will love you all over again >> ************************************* >> >> Presence >> >> The little girl is afraid of the dark: >> >> /is it as light as a duck?/ >> >> / does a feather feel sad to you?/ >> >> Her father reads to her. >> >> It's a story about her mother: >> >> / how old is your anger?/ >> >> / does the rain cast a shadow?/ >> >> / where does it live?/ >> >> What about /his /story? >> >> that unwritten chapter without an author: >> >> /Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break?/ >> >> The little girl listens to her father, >> >> he reads: It's a story about his wife, >> >> a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. >> >> / how deep is the weather?/ >> >> December's last breath, >> >> the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, >> >> unable to stand: >> >> / does your mother still play with you?/ >> >> / must snow melt so soon?/ >> >> / where does it hide?/ >> >> The little girl hears her mother: >> >> / do dreams float?/ >> >> / is my voice a feather?/ >> >> / does the moon change colors while she's >> sleeping?/ >> >> / what's taller than a wish?/ >> >> /Which angel holds in her hand/ >> >> /your first and last names, and all of their secrets?/ >> >> // >> >> The little girl is tired. >> >> She listens to her father. >> >> The little girl falls asleep. >> >> // >> >> // >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 2 15:38:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). #mid1{border-top:solid 1px #B5C5DD;border-bottom:solid 1px #B5C5DD;padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px;} render_ads('mid1', window['ad_config_mid1'],window['ad_config_mid1_startIdx'],window['ad_config_mid1_endIdx']); ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... ? this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it?... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes is his "list poems." Best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is gibberish. ? I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): To My Valentine ? More than a catbird hates a cat, Or a criminal hates a clue, Or the Axis hates the United States, That?s how much I love you. ? I love you more than a duck can swim, And more than a grapefruit squirts, I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, And more than a toothache hurts. ? As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, Or a juggler hates a shove, As a hostess detests unexpected guests, That?s how much you I love. ? I love you more than a wasp can sting, And more than the subway jerks, I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, And more than a hangnail irks. ? I swear to you by the stars above, And below, if such there be, As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, That?s how you?re loved by me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * best, Jerry ? On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: ?2?sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? ? All the Whiskey in Heaven ? by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again*************************************Presence???????????????? ??The little girl is afraid of the dark:????????????????????? is it as light as a duck????????????????????? does a feather feel sad to you??Her father reads to?her.It's a story about her mother:?????????????????????? how old is your anger?????????????????????? does the rain?cast a?shadow?????????????????????? where does it live???What about his story????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????that unwritten chapter without an author:???Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow?that doesn't break???The little?girl listens to her father,?he reads: It's a story about his wife,?a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night.????????????????????????? how deep is the weather???December's last breath,?the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather,?unable to stand:???????????????????????? does your mother still play with you?????????????????????????must snow melt so soon?????????????????????????where does it hide??The little girl hears her mother:??????????????????????????do dreams float????????????????????????? is my voice a feather????????????????????????? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping????????????????????????? what's taller than a wish??Which angel holds in her handyour first and last names, and all of their secrets??The little girl is tired.She listens to her father.The little girl falls asleep.???????????????????????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 15:41:28 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 15:41:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Settle down, Stephen. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me > that nonce means ... *noun * > the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase > *for the nonce *). > ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking > something that Neruda did with common objects & ... > > this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want > smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the > way Jesus spoke it ... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph > Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive > structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never > repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm > going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do > you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... > > > --- On *Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire * wrote: > > > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM > > Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is > by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. > > I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd > guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) > form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and > creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes > is his "list poems." > > Best, > > Jerry > > On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. > There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The > wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman offered a sensible paragraph or > 2 on this exact topic. But most of what I've seen in print is > gibberish. > > I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains > the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In > Heaven (title of the collection) because it's inexplicable. What's he really > doing? Anny B said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg > because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein > family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod > Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's > a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- > > --- On *Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire > * wrote: > > > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM > > I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about > which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist > like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's > miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated > comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. > He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very > well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't > stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait > for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do > with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should > appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word > "more" here): > > *To My Valentine* > > > > More than a catbird hates a cat, > > Or a criminal hates a clue, > > Or the Axis hates the United States, > > That?s how much I love you. > > > > I love you more than a duck can swim, > > And more than a grapefruit squirts, > > I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, > > And more than a toothache hurts. > > > > As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, > > Or a juggler hates a shove, > > As a hostess detests unexpected guests, > > That?s how much you I love. > > > > I love you more than a wasp can sting, > > And more than the subway jerks, > > I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, > > And more than a hangnail irks. > > > > I swear to you by the stars above, > > And below, if such there be, > > As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, > > That?s how you?re loved by me. > > > * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * > > best, > > Jerry > > > On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? > > All the Whiskey in Heaven by Charles Bernstein > > Not for all the whiskey in heaven > Not for all the flies in Vermont > Not for all the tears in the basement > Not for a million trips to Mars > > Not if you paid me in diamonds > Not if you paid me in pearls > Not if you gave me your pinky ring > Not if you gave me your curls > > Not for all the fire in hell > Not for all the blue in the sky > Not for an empire of my own > Not even for peace of mind > > No, never, I'll never stop loving you > Not till my heart beats its last > And even then in my words and my songs > I will love you all over again > > ************************************* > > Presence > > > > > > > > The little girl is afraid of the dark: > > > > *is it as light as a duck?* > > * does a feather feel sad to you?* > > > > Her father reads to her. > > It's a story about her mother: > > > > * how old is your anger?* > > * does the rain cast a shadow?* > > * where does it live?* > > > > What about *his * > story? > > that unwritten chapter without an author: > > > > *Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break?* > > > > The little girl listens to her father, > > he reads: It's a story about his wife, > > a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. > > > > * how deep is the weather?* > > > > December's last breath, > > the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, > > unable to stand: > > > > * does your mother still play with you?* > > * must snow melt so soon?* > > * where does it hide?* > > > > The little girl hears her mother: > > > > * do dreams float?* > > * is my voice a feather?* > > * does the moon change colors while she's > sleeping?* > > * what's taller than a wish?* > > > > *Which angel holds in her hand* > > *your first and last names, and all of their secrets?* > > ** > > The little girl is tired. > > She listens to her father. > > The little girl falls asleep. > > ** > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 2 16:05:51 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:05:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> It's Jerry, Stephen. My family's never actually produced a Mr. McGuire. I teach at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. I'm sorry I upset you. "Nonce" can mean something constructed for the present moment. So a nonce form is one that's invented out of one's immediate materials, rather than borrowed from the past. Every time we put a verb and noun together we structure the stuff of our thoughts--that's all I mean by "structuration," that when we use language we make use of the structures available to us to produce unique (or, less interestingly, habitual) speech or writing. By "inventive structuration" I meant that poets are trained, or train themselves, or have a natural gift that allows them to use this fundamental fact of language in ways that we recognize as creative, innovative, freshly productive. I didn't mean to obscure what I was trying to say to you, and I didn't mean what I said to suggest I have the only answers, or even the best answers, to the question of what we mean by "language poetry" or the question of how Charles Bernstein characteristically thinks or writes. As to your feelings about Joseph Conte, I don't know him, but his book _Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry_ has always struck me as a pretty sensible way to think about some of the games "language" poets play. Best wishes, Jerry On 8/2/2011 2:41 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Settle down, Stephen. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;/ > /Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > / > /Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > / > /G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM, stephen russell > > > wrote: > > What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com > tells me that nonce means ... */noun /* > the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in > the phrase /for the nonce /). > ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, > taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... > this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only > want smaller government, I want small universities where English > is spoken the way Jesus spoke it ... I'm outraged ... I've had it > ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to > stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person > that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm > sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to > have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you > teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... > > > --- On *Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire / >/* wrote: > > > From: Jerry McGuire > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein > To: "NewPoetry List" > > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM > > Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My > Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. > > I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a > formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph > Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein > looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) > repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that > takes is his "list poems." > > Best, > > Jerry > > On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: >> Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely >> put. There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in >> layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob >> Grumman offered a sensible paragraph or 2 on this exact >> topic. But most of what I've seen in print is >> gibberish. >> I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. >> C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his >> collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the >> collection) because it's inexplicable. What's he really >> doing? Anny B said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny >> pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning >> anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I >> heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street >> Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a >> theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- >> >> --- On *Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire / >> /* >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Jerry McGuire >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> >> Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM >> >> I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an >> opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, >> though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would >> deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's >> miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of >> tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem >> from the conventionality of its address. He loves what >> the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them >> very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe >> it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar >> address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) >> Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language >> poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional >> linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how >> Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the >> word "more" here): >> >> *To My Valentine* >> > More than a catbird hates a cat, > > Or a criminal hates a clue, > > Or the Axis hates the United States, > > That's how much I love you. > > I love you more than a duck can swim, > > And more than a grapefruit squirts, > > I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, > > And more than a toothache hurts. > > As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, > > Or a juggler hates a shove, > > As a hostess detests unexpected guests, > > That's how much you I love. > > I love you more than a wasp can sting, > > And more than the subway jerks, > > I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, > > And more than a hangnail irks. > > I swear to you by the stars above, > > And below, if such there be, > > As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, > > That's how you're loved by me. > > > * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * > > best, > > Jerry > > > On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: > >> 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? >> All the Whiskey in Heaven >> by Charles Bernstein >> >> Not for all the whiskey in heaven >> Not for all the flies in Vermont >> Not for all the tears in the basement >> Not for a million trips to Mars >> >> Not if you paid me in diamonds >> Not if you paid me in pearls >> Not if you gave me your pinky ring >> Not if you gave me your curls >> >> Not for all the fire in hell >> Not for all the blue in the sky >> Not for an empire of my own >> Not even for peace of mind >> >> No, never, I'll never stop loving you >> Not till my heart beats its last >> And even then in my words and my songs >> I will love you all over again >> ************************************* >> >> Presence >> >> The little girl is afraid of the dark: >> >> /is it as light as a duck?/ >> >> / does a feather feel sad to you?/ >> >> Her father reads to her. >> >> It's a story about her mother: >> >> / how old is your anger?/ >> >> / does the rain cast a shadow?/ >> >> / where does it live?/ >> >> What about /his /story? >> >> that unwritten chapter without an author: >> >> /Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break?/ >> >> The little girl listens to her father, >> >> he reads: It's a story about his wife, >> >> a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one >> night. >> >> / how deep is the weather?/ >> >> December's last breath, >> >> the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, >> >> unable to stand: >> >> / does your mother still play with you?/ >> >> / must snow melt so soon?/ >> >> / where does it hide?/ >> >> The little girl hears her mother: >> >> / do dreams float?/ >> >> / is my voice a feather?/ >> >> / does the moon change colors while >> she's sleeping?/ >> >> / what's taller than a wish?/ >> >> /Which angel holds in her hand/ >> >> /your first and last names, and all of their secrets?/ >> >> // >> >> The little girl is tired. >> >> She listens to her father. >> >> The little girl falls asleep. >> >> // >> >> // >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Wed Aug 3 09:58:34 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 13:58:34 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Bernie Madoff's son, Mark, commits suicide - New York Postwww.nypost.com/.../bernie_madoff_son_andrew_found_dead_... - CachedYou +1'd this publicly. UndoDec 11, 2010 ? Bernard Madoff's son Mark was found dead in the living room of his SoHo apartment this morning ? hanging from a black dog leash on the ... Police Beat Man That Just Learned His Son Committed Suicide | ~II ...www.thewatchtowers.com/police-beat-man-that-just-learned-his-son... - CachedYou +1'd this publicly. UndoJul 26, 2011 ? Fox news reports that Loganville police beat an emotionally distressed man who just learned his son had committed suicide. ... Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 15:05:51 -0500 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein It's Jerry, Stephen. My family's never actually produced a Mr. McGuire. I teach at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. I'm sorry I upset you. "Nonce" can mean something constructed for the present moment. So a nonce form is one that's invented out of one's immediate materials, rather than borrowed from the past. Every time we put a verb and noun together we structure the stuff of our thoughts--that's all I mean by "structuration," that when we use language we make use of the structures available to us to produce unique (or, less interestingly, habitual) speech or writing. By "inventive structuration" I meant that poets are trained, or train themselves, or have a natural gift that allows them to use this fundamental fact of language in ways that we recognize as creative, innovative, freshly productive. I didn't mean to obscure what I was trying to say to you, and I didn't mean what I said to suggest I have the only answers, or even the best answers, to the question of what we mean by "language poetry" or the question of how Charles Bernstein characteristically thinks or writes. As to your feelings about Joseph Conte, I don't know him, but his book _Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry_ has always struck me as a pretty sensible way to think about some of the games "language" poets play. Best wishes, Jerry On 8/2/2011 2:41 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Settle down, Stephen. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM, stephen russell wrote: What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it ... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes is his "list poems." Best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman offered a sensible paragraph or 2 on this exact topic. But most of what I've seen in print is gibberish. I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection) because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? Anny B said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): To My Valentine More than a catbird hates a cat, Or a criminal hates a clue, Or the Axis hates the United States, That?s how much I love you. I love you more than a duck can swim, And more than a grapefruit squirts, I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, And more than a toothache hurts. As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, Or a juggler hates a shove, As a hostess detests unexpected guests, That?s how much you I love. I love you more than a wasp can sting, And more than the subway jerks, I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, And more than a hangnail irks. I swear to you by the stars above, And below, if such there be, As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, That?s how you?re loved by me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? All the Whiskey in Heaven by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again ************************************* Presence The little girl is afraid of the dark: is it as light as a duck? does a feather feel sad to you? Her father reads to her. It's a story about her mother: how old is your anger? does the rain cast a shadow? where does it live? What about his story? that unwritten chapter without an author: Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break? The little girl listens to her father, he reads: It's a story about his wife, a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. how deep is the weather? December's last breath, the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, unable to stand: does your mother still play with you? must snow melt so soon? where does it hide? The little girl hears her mother: do dreams float? is my voice a feather? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping? what's taller than a wish? Which angel holds in her hand your first and last names, and all of their secrets? The little girl is tired. She listens to her father. The little girl falls asleep. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Wed Aug 3 13:08:24 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 17:08:24 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, Message-ID: Bernstein poetry meets all the criteria of Wilshberia. It is excellent poetry of this type. Indeed, Bernstein, editor of "Live At The Ear", the world's first CD anthology of L*A*N*G*U*A*G*E Poetry,back in 1994, ought to be a star in the New Yorker magazine. Regardless, CB was included by Bob Grumman in the famous Cleveland retrospective. There, the works were, as I recall, blacked out texts, redacted of linguistic disclosure. He has a residence near the Dakota right across a park from the magazine's offices. Yes, he's ensconced at U of P, post Buff., but that's a mere train ride back to the city. All the brouhaha of linguistic chaos re LangPo has evidently subsided, if it ever really took on life, in this poet's "mind." And, under the conditions wherein this man conducts his darker personal life, certain poems can take on an added gravitas. One must hand it to the guy. He deals from a deck of grimy baseball cards, a N.Y. gatekeeper. A cool, if pudgy, operator. From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 13:58:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein Bernie Madoff's son, Mark, commits suicide - New York Postwww.nypost.com/.../bernie_madoff_son_andrew_found_dead_... - CachedYou +1'd this publicly. UndoDec 11, 2010 ? Bernard Madoff's son Mark was found dead in the living room of his SoHo apartment this morning ? hanging from a black dog leash on the ... Police Beat Man That Just Learned His Son Committed Suicide | ~II ...www.thewatchtowers.com/police-beat-man-that-just-learned-his-son... - CachedYou +1'd this publicly. UndoJul 26, 2011 ? Fox news reports that Loganville police beat an emotionally distressed man who just learned his son had committed suicide. ... Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 15:05:51 -0500 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein It's Jerry, Stephen. My family's never actually produced a Mr. McGuire. I teach at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. I'm sorry I upset you. "Nonce" can mean something constructed for the present moment. So a nonce form is one that's invented out of one's immediate materials, rather than borrowed from the past. Every time we put a verb and noun together we structure the stuff of our thoughts--that's all I mean by "structuration," that when we use language we make use of the structures available to us to produce unique (or, less interestingly, habitual) speech or writing. By "inventive structuration" I meant that poets are trained, or train themselves, or have a natural gift that allows them to use this fundamental fact of language in ways that we recognize as creative, innovative, freshly productive. I didn't mean to obscure what I was trying to say to you, and I didn't mean what I said to suggest I have the only answers, or even the best answers, to the question of what we mean by "language poetry" or the question of how Charles Bernstein characteristically thinks or writes. As to your feelings about Joseph Conte, I don't know him, but his book _Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry_ has always struck me as a pretty sensible way to think about some of the games "language" poets play. Best wishes, Jerry On 8/2/2011 2:41 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Settle down, Stephen. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM, stephen russell wrote: What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it ... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes is his "list poems." Best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman offered a sensible paragraph or 2 on this exact topic. But most of what I've seen in print is gibberish. I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection) because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? Anny B said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): To My Valentine More than a catbird hates a cat, Or a criminal hates a clue, Or the Axis hates the United States, That?s how much I love you. I love you more than a duck can swim, And more than a grapefruit squirts, I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, And more than a toothache hurts. As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, Or a juggler hates a shove, As a hostess detests unexpected guests, That?s how much you I love. I love you more than a wasp can sting, And more than the subway jerks, I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, And more than a hangnail irks. I swear to you by the stars above, And below, if such there be, As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, That?s how you?re loved by me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * best, Jerry On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: 2 sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? All the Whiskey in Heaven by Charles Bernstein Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again ************************************* Presence The little girl is afraid of the dark: is it as light as a duck? does a feather feel sad to you? Her father reads to her. It's a story about her mother: how old is your anger? does the rain cast a shadow? where does it live? What about his story? that unwritten chapter without an author: Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow that doesn't break? The little girl listens to her father, he reads: It's a story about his wife, a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. how deep is the weather? December's last breath, the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, unable to stand: does your mother still play with you? must snow melt so soon? where does it hide? The little girl hears her mother: do dreams float? is my voice a feather? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping? what's taller than a wish? Which angel holds in her hand your first and last names, and all of their secrets? The little girl is tired. She listens to her father. The little girl falls asleep. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Aug 3 13:24:17 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:24:17 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 7/20/2011 12:01 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> Even with Bob's taxonomy I'm not sure which is which and what is what >> and who is who, but suspect Simic would be BobBashed for being >> Wilshy-Walshy. > > > Why do you keep saying things like that, Chris? ?I find nothing wrong with a > poet's being Wilshy-Ashy. You find nothing wrong with it but then continually find things wrong with it, bash it and its practitioners, and endlessly complain about it. Damning with faint praise. Or maybe I'm in one of my "why does almost every post of Bob's, even those praising any kind of poetry, have to work in the grousing?" phases. It's a heavy chip... no one will respect you less for putting it down once in a while. c From chris at chrislott.org Wed Aug 3 13:28:23 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 09:28:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9998867.1311241611225.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 1:46 AM, wrote: > It's > difficult to see Rae Armantrout and Bruce Andrews as practicing the same > kind of writing. True. Is the rubric of post-avant (or choose your term here) that is often used by adherents to praise the same poets/poetry that some use the label "language poetry" to denigrate any more useful? There are times a single label can encompass Armentrout and Andrews, but unless also supported by specifics the term is meaningless. On the other hand, while I sympathize some with the impulse that drives Bob to taxonomies, so far all I see in that product a lack of usefulness of another sort. c From jschickl at hotmail.com Wed Aug 3 13:37:22 2011 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:37:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: stephen, the bernstein family is frequently spoken of / written about. susan b, beard of bees. his daughter committed suicide a couple years ago and there was a tremendous outpouring of dedications from all over. silliman featured the story. his daughter has a permanent link of jacket2. had she lived, you would have heard of her, certainly. joseph conte has converted / corrupted many a wayward student with his music painting and literature course. if you haven't read this "gibberish" already, i think you'll find steve mccaffery's essay "writing as a general economy" rather useful in figuring out what l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e is or is up to. as i understand it, he wrote it while working as a taxi driver -- that is, a "layman." as i understand it, it got him and many others teaching jobs. reading quikcly jared : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > > Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is > gibberish. > ? > I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- > > What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun > the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). > > #mid1{border-top:solid 1px #B5C5DD;border-bottom:solid 1px #B5C5DD;padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px;} > > > render_ads('mid1', window['ad_config_mid1'],window['ad_config_mid1_startIdx'],window['ad_config_mid1_endIdx']); > > > ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... > ? > this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it?... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 14:38:36 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1312396716.50511.YahooMailNeo@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> that is news (to me). & horribly sad. ________________________________ From: Jared Schickling To: New Poetry List Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein stephen, the bernstein family is frequently spoken of / written about.? susan b, beard of bees.? his daughter committed suicide a couple years ago and there was a tremendous outpouring of dedications from all over.? silliman featured the story.? his daughter has a permanent link of jacket2.? had she lived, you would have heard of her, certainly. joseph conte has converted / corrupted many a wayward student with his music painting and literature course. if you haven't read this "gibberish" already, i think you'll find steve mccaffery's essay "writing as a general economy" rather useful in figuring out what l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e is or is up to.? as i understand it, he wrote it while working as a taxi driver -- that is, a "layman."? as i understand it, it got him and many others teaching jobs.? reading quikcly jared : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > > Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is > gibberish. > ? > I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- > > What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun > the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). > > #mid1{border-top:solid 1px #B5C5DD;border-bottom:solid 1px #B5C5DD;padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px;} > > > render_ads('mid1', window['ad_config_mid1'],window['ad_config_mid1_startIdx'],window['ad_config_mid1_endIdx']); > > > ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... > ? > this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it?... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 14:44:08 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1312397048.95020.YahooMailNeo@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Just funning ... the Joseph Conte book sounds excellent. ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein It's Jerry, Stephen. My family's never actually produced a Mr. McGuire. I teach at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. I'm sorry I upset you. "Nonce" can mean something constructed for the present moment. So a nonce form is one that's invented out of one's immediate materials, rather than borrowed from the past. Every time we put a verb and noun together we structure the stuff of our thoughts--that's all I mean by "structuration," that when we use language we make use of the structures available to us to produce unique (or, less interestingly, habitual) speech or writing. By "inventive structuration" I meant that poets are trained, or train themselves, or have a natural gift that allows them to use this fundamental fact of language in ways that we recognize as creative, innovative, freshly productive. I didn't mean to obscure what I was trying to say to you, and I didn't mean what I said to suggest I have the only answers, or even the best answers, to the question of what we mean by "language poetry" or the question of how Charles Bernstein characteristically thinks or writes. As to your feelings about Joseph Conte, I don't know him, but his book _Unending Design: The Forms of Postmodern Poetry_ has always struck me as a pretty sensible way to think about some of the games "language" poets play. Best wishes, Jerry On 8/2/2011 2:41 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Settle down, Stephen. > >?? ? > > >Serving the tri-state area. > > >Hal >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > > >Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? >Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? >G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > > >On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM, stephen russell wrote: > >What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun >>the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). >>... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... >>? >>this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it?... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... >> >> >>--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: >> >> >>>From: Jerry McGuire >>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein >>>To: "NewPoetry List" >>>Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 3:10 PM >>> >>> >>>Sorry for the confusion, Stephen. The poem I posted ("To My Valentine") is by Ogden Nash, not Bernstein. >>> >>>I don't know what Rod Smith said about Bernstein as a formalist, but I'd guess he means something like Joseph Conte's idea of serial (or procedural) form--that Bernstein looks to create nonce forms through selective (and creative) repetition or inventive structuration--one of the forms that takes is his "list poems." >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Jerry >>> >>>On 8/2/2011 1:57 PM, stephen russell wrote: >>>Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is >>>>gibberish. >>>>? >>>>I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- >>>> >>>>--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>From: Jerry McGuire >>>>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein >>>>To: "NewPoetry List" >>>>Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:37 AM >>>> >>>> >>>>I certainly won't step on this land mine--i.e., give an opinion about which poem "is better." It's interesting, though, that an ironic absurdist like Bernstein would deliver the poem he does. It feels to me that he's miscalculated, that he feels the humor of his list of tropes of exaggerated comparison somehow redeems the poem from the conventionality of its address. He loves what the workshops call "list poems," and he usually does them very well, but this one seems atypically clunky. Maybe it's because it can't stand up to a poem of similar address but more outrageous troping, by (wait for it) Ogden Nash (and incidentally, if part of "language poetry" has to do with deconstructing conventional linguistic expectations, Bernstein should appreciate how Nash messes with the set of assumptions built into the word "more" here): >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>To My Valentine >>>? >>>More than a catbird hates a cat, >>>Or a criminal hates a clue, >>>Or the Axis hates the United States, >>>That?s how much I love you. >>>? >>>I love you more than a duck can swim, >>>And more than a grapefruit squirts, >>>I love you more than a gin rummy is a bore, >>>And more than a toothache hurts. >>>? >>>As a shipwrecked sailor hates the sea, >>>Or a juggler hates a shove, >>>As a hostess detests unexpected guests, >>>That?s how much you I love. >>>? >>>I love you more than a wasp can sting, >>>And more than the subway jerks, >>>I love you as much as a beggar needs a crutch, >>>And more than a hangnail irks. >>>? >>>I swear to you by the stars above, >>>And below, if such there be, >>>As the High Court loathes perjurious oathes, >>>That?s how you?re loved by me. >>> >>> >>>* * * * * * * >>>* * * * * * * >>> >>>best, >>> >>>Jerry >>> >>>? >>>On 8/2/2011 9:14 AM, stephen russell wrote: >>>?2?sentimental poems. Which is better? Mine, or the famous guy?? >>>>? >>>>All the Whiskey in Heaven ? >>>>by Charles Bernstein >>>> >>>> >>>>Not for all the whiskey in heaven Not for all the flies in Vermont Not for all the tears in the basement Not for a million trips to Mars Not if you paid me in diamonds Not if you paid me in pearls Not if you gave me your pinky ring Not if you gave me your curls Not for all the fire in hell Not for all the blue in the sky Not for an empire of my own Not even for peace of mind No, never, I'll never stop loving you Not till my heart beats its last And even then in my words and my songs I will love you all over again >>>>************************************* >>>>Presence >>>>???????????????? >>>>? >>>>? >>>>The little girl is afraid of the dark: >>>>? >>>>???????????????????? is it as light as a duck? >>>>???????????????????? does a feather feel sad to you? >>>>? >>>>Her father reads to?her. >>>>It's a story about her mother: >>>>? >>>>????????????????????? how old is your anger? >>>>????????????????????? does the rain?cast a?shadow? >>>>????????????????????? where does it live? >>>>? >>>>?What about his story??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >>>>?that unwritten chapter without an author: >>>>?? >>>>?Which hour wears a promise strong as a vow?that doesn't break? >>>>? >>>>?The little?girl listens to her father, >>>>?he reads: It's a story about his wife, >>>>?a blizzard, it's a story about the little girl's mother one night. >>>>?? >>>>??????????????????????? how deep is the weather? >>>>? >>>>?December's last breath, >>>>?the little's girl's mother too drunk for the weather, >>>>?unable to stand: >>>>? >>>>??????????????????????? does your mother still play with you? >>>>????????????????????????must snow melt so soon? >>>>????????????????????????where does it hide? >>>>? >>>>The little girl hears her mother: >>>>? >>>>?????????????????????????do dreams float? >>>>???????????????????????? is my voice a feather? >>>>???????????????????????? does the moon change colors while she's sleeping? >>>>???????????????????????? what's taller than a wish? >>>>? >>>>Which angel holds in her hand >>>>your first and last names, and all of their secrets? >>>>? >>>>The little girl is tired. >>>>She listens to her father. >>>>The little girl falls asleep. >>>>? >>>>? >>>>?????????????????????? >>>>??????????????????????? >>>>? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>-- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>-- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 14:46:33 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <1312396716.50511.YahooMailNeo@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1312396716.50511.YahooMailNeo@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1312397193.52757.YahooMailNeo@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i guess i lied about looking for the info ... I assumedBernstein's bio (small book bio) said it all. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein that is news (to me). & horribly sad. ________________________________ From: Jared Schickling To: New Poetry List Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein stephen, the bernstein family is frequently spoken of / written about.? susan b, beard of bees.? his daughter committed suicide a couple years ago and there was a tremendous outpouring of dedications from all over.? silliman featured the story.? his daughter has a permanent link of jacket2.? had she lived, you would have heard of her, certainly. joseph conte has converted / corrupted many a wayward student with his music painting and literature course. if you haven't read this "gibberish" already, i think you'll find steve mccaffery's essay "writing as a general economy" rather useful in figuring out what l=a=n=g=u=a=g=e is or is up to.? as i understand it, he wrote it while working as a taxi driver -- that is, a "layman."? as i understand it, it got him and many others teaching jobs.? reading quikcly jared : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > > Deconstructing convential linguistic expectations ... nicely put. ?There're few explanations of Lango poetry written in layman's tongue. The wikipedia piece is atrocious. Bob Grumman? offered?a sensible?paragraph or 2?on this exact topic. But most?of what I've seen in print is > gibberish. > ? > I haven't seen the Bernstein poem you posted. It's excellent. C.B. sustains the rhyme scheme. Perhaps he ended his collected poems with Whiskey In Heaven (title of the collection)?because it's inexplicable. What's he really doing? ?Anny B?said he wrote it for his daughter, but is Anny pulling my leg because I've seen nothing in print mentioning anything about a Berstein family. & I was baffled when I heard C. B. spoken of as a formalist (Rod Smith/Bridge Street Books). Is he a formalist? Language, what a laugh. He's a theorist. A poet. That I'm sure of ... mostly -- > > What are they teaching these kids in college today? Dictionary.Com tells me that nonce means ... noun > the present, or immediate, occasion or purpose (usually used in the phrase for the nonce ). > > #mid1{border-top:solid 1px #B5C5DD;border-bottom:solid 1px #B5C5DD;padding-bottom:8px;padding-top:8px;} > > > render_ads('mid1', window['ad_config_mid1'],window['ad_config_mid1_startIdx'],window['ad_config_mid1_endIdx']); > > > ... so a list poem is immediate, a corruption of the immediate, taking something that Neruda did with common objects & ... > ? > this is unforgivable ... I'm joining the tea party ... I not only want smaller government, I want small universities where English is spoken the way Jesus spoke it?... I'm outraged ... I've had it ... & who is Joseph Conte? ... I don't like him ... I want him to stop ... & what's "inventive structuration? ... the last person that said a thing like that to me never repeated it, although I'm sure you're a fine fellow, Jerry McGuire ... I'm going to (half to have) a talk with Rod Smith at Bridge Street Books ... Do you teach at LSU, Mr. McGuire? ... > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 3 18:01:23 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:01:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E39C533.9030505@nut-n-but.net> On 8/3/2011 12:24 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 7/20/2011 12:01 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> Even with Bob's taxonomy I'm not sure which is which and what is what >>> and who is who, but suspect Simic would be BobBashed for being >>> Wilshy-Walshy. >> >> Why do you keep saying things like that, Chris? I find nothing wrong with a >> poet's being Wilshy-Ashy. > You find nothing wrong with it but then continually find things wrong > with it, bash it and its practitioners, and endlessly complain about > it. Damning with faint praise. > > Or maybe I'm in one of my "why does almost every post of Bob's, even > those praising any kind of poetry, have to work in the grousing?" > phases. It's a heavy chip... no one will respect you less for putting > it down once in a while. > > c Actually, I do put it down, Chris--a lot. Now ask David Lehman to stop insulting American poets with his yearly "Best American Poetry" anthologies, and all the other people who promote the same kind of thing with big money and other forms of recognition that James tells us about (not because he's part of the Establishment but because there are no similar announcements to be made about non-Wilshberian poetry). --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 3 18:34:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:34:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E249777.8020109@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-but.net> > Or maybe I'm in one of my "why does almost every > post of Bob's, even those praising any kind of > poetry, have to work in the grousing?" Many posts to New-Poetry, not "almost every post." Too many, though. I should have said, "It's not fair that 99.99% of the grants, attention of visible critics, publication in visible anthologies and magazines, exposure in college courses, and the like is going exclusively to contemporary American poets doing nothing of aesthetic significance in their work that was not widely done in American poetry fifty or more years ago," and then shut up. Note: the above is a slight exaggeration, but only a slight one. On the other hand, I do wish I could just answer posts like yours with the simple statement that I stand on my record, which consists of a lot more than my posts to New-Poetry. Such as my/ From Haiku to Lyriku/, the world's sole book-length discussion of all forms of American haiku and haiku-like poems, with what I feel is a reasonable assortment of explained criticism and praise. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 3 20:18:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:18:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: <4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><4E249777.8020109@nut- n-but.net><1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E25B467.6050108@nut-n-bu t.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> http://poeticks.com/bob-grummans-small-press-review-columns/column056-mayjune-2002/ It's one of my columns for /Small Press Review. /Taxonomy but much more. Regardless of close to zero recognition of these columns of mine, which I'm slowly storing in my blog, I'm happy with the majority of them--and the worst are still of some historic significance because of the otherwise completely neglected poetry they cover--(and, sorry, but I have to say it, as good as just about anything you're likely to read in the Important Periodicals). New-Poetry's Own Megalogrummaniac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 3 20:33:47 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:33:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-but.net> <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Let us know when you get up to zero. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > http://poeticks.com/bob-grummans-small-press-review-columns/column056-mayjune-2002/ > > It's one of my columns for *Small Press Review. *Taxonomy but much more. > > > Regardless of close to zero recognition of these columns of mine, which I'm > slowly storing in my blog, I'm happy with the majority of them--and the > worst are still of some historic significance because of the otherwise > completely neglected poetry they cover--(and, sorry, but I have to say it, > as good as just about anything you're likely to read in the Important > Periodicals). > > New-Poetry's Own Megalogrummaniac > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 3 21:54:04 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:54:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, Message-ID: I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some of those songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out in 2010.) The kind of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of three millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd say. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 3 22:58:11 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 22:58:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Yeah, well what have those guys done lately? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but > I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some of those > songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . > > By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David > Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me > when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out in 2010.) The kind > of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." > > Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of three > millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses > the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century > after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts > talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd > say. > > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 10:33:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:33:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, Message-ID: <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or > so--but I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some > of those songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . > > By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was > David Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow > slipped by me when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out > in 2010.) The kind of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." > > Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of > three millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po > (Hinton uses the older English versions of their names), poems that > have survived century after century of every opinion that has been > thrown at them--kind of puts talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and > the rest into perspective, I'd say. > > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about making it new. Good thinking. Except that no old poetry would last if there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to have a rest now and again. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 4 09:49:12 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 08:49:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hinton's Classical Chinese Poetry reviewed Message-ID: Here's a fairly lengthy piece by Matthew Thorburn on the new-to-me anthology of Chinese poetry translated by David Hinton, with some thoughts on translation as well as examples of Hinton's work: http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_thorburn.php ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 4 10:19:07 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 09:19:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his related slogan, "literature is news that stays news." Which is directly relevant not only to Pound's work as a translator but to projects like Hinton's anthology surveying the tradition of classical Chinese poetry. Translations usually date even faster than original poetry, so no one is more aware than a translator of the need to "make it new," which in this case involves not just rendering from one language into another but putting ancient texts into a linguistic form and style that will be appealing and meaningful to contemporary readers. That's a process that must be continually revisited and renewed, obviously. Many of Pound's own translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes. But at the same time a translator must be keenly aware of those things that make new translations worthwhile, which involve qualities in the original which are, dare I say it, timelessly fresh. There is some core of news that stays news in Li Po, Po Chu-I, Lu Yu, and the rest that generation after generation gravitate toward and want to encounter afresh. Otherwise they wouldn't be classic. To consistently downplay or ignore that truth is to experience only half of literature's enduring power. It would be like living on the dark side of the moon, unaware or uninterested in the lighted side. Noble workers like David Hinton are clearly very interested in exploring what that core of enduring news is, and how best to present it across gulfs of time and cultural shift. In a similar way, historical scholars and teachers devote their time to the same exploration with Shakespeare, Chaucer, and even the rapidly aging works of poets like Pound, Eliot, and Williams. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >> I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some of those songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . >> >> By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out in 2010.) The kind of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." >> >> Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of three millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd say. >> >> > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about making it new. Good thinking. Except that no old poetry would last if there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to have a rest now and again. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 10:28:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:28:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Hard to live on the dark side of the moon. That lighted side always comes around again. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation of my > opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's > much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has > been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his > related slogan, "literature is news that stays news." Which is directly > relevant not only to Pound's work as a translator but to projects like > Hinton's anthology surveying the tradition of classical Chinese poetry. > > Translations usually date even faster than original poetry, so no one is > more aware than a translator of the need to "make it new," which in this > case involves not just rendering from one language into another but putting > ancient texts into a linguistic form and style that will be appealing and > meaningful to contemporary readers. That's a process that must be > continually revisited and renewed, obviously. Many of Pound's own > translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes. > > But at the same time a translator must be keenly aware of those things that > make new translations worthwhile, which involve qualities in the original > which are, dare I say it, timelessly fresh. There is some core of news that > stays news in Li Po, Po Chu-I, Lu Yu, and the rest that generation after > generation gravitate toward and want to encounter afresh. Otherwise they > wouldn't be classic. > > To consistently downplay or ignore that truth is to experience only half of > literature's enduring power. It would be like living on the dark side of > the moon, unaware or uninterested in the lighted side. > > Noble workers like David Hinton are clearly very interested in exploring > what that core of enduring news is, and how best to present it across gulfs > of time and cultural shift. In a similar way, historical scholars and > teachers devote their time to the same exploration with Shakespeare, > Chaucer, and even the rapidly aging works of poets like Pound, Eliot, and > Williams. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > > I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but > I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some of those > songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . > > By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David > Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me > when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out in 2010.) The kind > of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." > > Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of three > millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses > the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century > after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts > talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd > say. > > > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about > making it new. Good thinking. Except that no old poetry would last if > there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to have a rest > now and again. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 4 12:11:36 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 11:11:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E3AC4B8.6010308@louisiana.edu> For some odd reason, BG's note also made me think of Pound--both the sometimes oppressive exhortation to make it new and (because more and more it's the psychological relationship of poets with their work that interests me) his idea that, while it's important that great poems be written, it doesn't matter at all who writes them. Understandably, live poets get so bound up with their personal success (whatever that means--I'm troubled by the popular idea that it's reducible to prizes and teaching jobs) that they're often locked into an adversarial relationship with other poets rather than a generous sense of possibility. I think, too, that this immediate adversarial sense can get transferred to things like historical and cross-cultural perspectives on poetry. To be clear, it doesn't seem to me that whether Li Po, for instance (as he's one of my heroes) can be fit into a framework of contemporary poetry spats can be anything but a distraction from what shines in his work. (By the way, whenever I've traveled for the past dozen years or so, I've packed Hinton's _Selected Poems of Li Po_ in my carry-on; it's the perfect book for being on the road.) The linking of "make it new" with "literature is news that stays news" is inspired, I think. It brings to mind something Richard Howard said about translation (he was talking about Baudelaire, I believe) some years ago, that every generation needs and deserves its new version. (In other words, the point isn't to achieve perfection, but to achieve adequation to one's specific historical moment.) But Pound's authoritarian side always came out when he tried to address how reading works--value resides _in the poem itself_ rather than in a complex process of reading by an actual historically-situated reader. In other words, he'd agree absolutely with your sense that translation addresses "qualities in the original which are . . . timelessly fresh." Your "dare I say it" shows that you understand that that's problematical. It isn't (only) timeless truths (or beauties) that the translator engages with--it's also the new historical situation of readers in his/her own time. (After all, it's these situations, not eternal verities, that change.) The thees and thous of nineteenth-century translations _don't mean the same thing_ to us that they did to their contemporary readers. The rhetorical elevation into archaic address reflected a kind of cultural respect for the text being translated; today, it would be a sign of ridicule or irony. The same goes for smaller verbal details--matters of tone, word choices, rhetorical posture, syntactic complexity, lexical density, etc. I don't think it's fair to translators (I say this as a _very_ language-poor poet, who can't translate adequately from any language without expert help) to suggest that their sole, or even primary, responsibility is to something timeless in the original. The original was already always entirely _in time_, a thing whose value was deeply implicated in its own moment. (The exceptions--poems that don't succeed when they're produced but are "discovered" to have value by later generations--raise some interesting questions, I know--but these, I think, have been pretty rare.) The complexity of the way words and ideas are embedded in their historical moment--that's what I think the translator is really faced with, where his/her responsibility really lies. To achieve a satisfactory "translation" is to recreate some of the tensions and energies that made something recognizable as a "poem" in one historical moment in a way that produces some of the same (or similar, or related) tensions and energies in another historical moment. (Frost's idea that poetry is "what gets lost in translation" is certainly a radical simplification, but there's no reason at all to think he could have been talking about a timeless essence.) When I think of Li Po I think of a kind of translucence--immediate perception and spontaneous emotion made instantaneously available to me over a 1200-year gap, seemingly without intellectual reflection; but I really don't know if that's Li Po or only (or mostly) Hinton. Li Po strikes me as a kind of monkish Kerouac, cranking out beautiful observations at light-speed; certainly that's how Hinton's book presents him (Hinton says as much in his introduction). I wonder how much more political/topical his work felt to contemporary readers, though. Certainly much of his life was marked by war and power-politics. Does Hinton suppress this out of convenience--the expectations and interests of today's readers? Or does Li Po write in a way that would have felt "outside of time" even to his contemporaries? To me, it's a kind of self-flattery that leads poets to think of themselves as outside (and above) their historical moment, producing eternal truths like bunnies producing bunnies. I think that's just silly, and that it leads us to think like venture capitalists, always looking for an angle to get a leg up on someone else. Sorry to have gone on at length. I'll be interested to hear any other thoughts you have on these matters. Best, Jerry On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation > of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is news that stays > news." Which is directly relevant not only to Pound's work as a > translator but to projects like Hinton's anthology surveying the > tradition of classical Chinese poetry. > > Translations usually date even faster than original poetry, so no one > is more aware than a translator of the need to "make it new," which in > this case involves not just rendering from one language into another > but putting ancient texts into a linguistic form and style that will > be appealing and meaningful to contemporary readers. That's a process > that must be continually revisited and renewed, obviously. Many of > Pound's own translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far > as that goes. > > But at the same time a translator must be keenly aware of those things > that make new translations worthwhile, which involve qualities in the > original which are, dare I say it, timelessly fresh. There is some > core of news that stays news in Li Po, Po Chu-I, Lu Yu, and the rest > that generation after generation gravitate toward and want to > encounter afresh. Otherwise they wouldn't be classic. > > To consistently downplay or ignore that truth is to experience only > half of literature's enduring power. It would be like living on the > dark side of the moon, unaware or uninterested in the lighted side. > > Noble workers like David Hinton are clearly very interested in > exploring what that core of enduring news is, and how best to present > it across gulfs of time and cultural shift. In a similar way, > historical scholars and teachers devote their time to the same > exploration with Shakespeare, Chaucer, and even the rapidly aging > works of poets like Pound, Eliot, and Williams. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: >>> I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or >>> so--but I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. >>> Some of those songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . >>> >>> By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was >>> David Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow >>> slipped by me when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came >>> out in 2010.) The kind of book that justifies terms like >>> "magisterial." >>> >>> Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of >>> three millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po >>> (Hinton uses the older English versions of their names), poems that >>> have survived century after century of every opinion that has been >>> thrown at them--kind of puts talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry >>> and the rest into perspective, I'd say. >>> >>> >> Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about >> making it new. Good thinking. Except that no old poetry would last >> if there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to >> have a rest now and again. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 13:18:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:18:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E3AD47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation > of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is news that stays > news." Your putting quotation marks around "innovators" says it all, David. We need custodians of the old; it's just a shame that so many of them have no sympathy for anything but the old. --Bob From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Aug 4 12:19:50 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 12:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Message-ID: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> In a message dated 8/4/2011 11:12:27 AM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > >Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation > >of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about > >Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough > >attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time > >to the present to his related slogan, "literature is news that stays > >news." I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 4 12:43:11 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:43:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> Message-ID: <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > > > I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well express'd"?) I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: nothing new under the sun. So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly on technical issues. Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the moon. Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the available territory. How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 4 12:49:49 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1312476589.72594.YahooMailNeo@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> There you go, Bob. I wan't talking about C Bernstein. I was refering to my amazing musical ability. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. ?Some of those songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . .? > > >By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me when it first appeared in 2008. ?(The paperback came out in 2010.) ?The kind of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." ? > > >Anyone read this book? ?Here's one thought I had: ?this sampling of three millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd say. > > > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about making it new.? Good thinking.? Except that no old poetry would last if there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to have a rest now and again. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu Aug 4 13:08:08 2011 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:08:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Message-ID: Thanks David. Your post is a succinct statement of why literature interests me and why novelty--post-avant, New York Times, Gucci, whatever--do not. Newness isn't actually the point. Nowness is. We could improve on Pound's aphorism by saying, "Make it now." When some mind penetrates into the present far enough and is kind enough to report back, it does make something new--but that is only because it is fresh and original, which are mere byproducts of the search into the eternal. > Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 09:19:07 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > ... Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's much-quoted > "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has been paid > by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his related > slogan, "literature is news that stays news." Which is directly relevant > not only to Pound's work as a translator but to projects like Hinton's > anthology surveying the tradition of classical Chinese poetry. > > Translations usually date even faster than original poetry, so no one is > more aware than a translator of the need to "make it new," which in this > case involves not just rendering from one language into another but putting > ancient texts into a linguistic form and style that will be appealing and > meaningful to contemporary readers. That's a process that must be > continually revisited and renewed, obviously. Many of Pound's own > translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes. > > But at the same time a translator must be keenly aware of those things that > make new translations worthwhile, which involve qualities in the original > which are, dare I say it, timelessly fresh. There is some core of news that > stays news in Li Po, Po Chu-I, Lu Yu, and the rest that generation after > generation gravitate toward and want to encounter afresh. Otherwise they > wouldn't be classic. > > To consistently downplay or ignore that truth is to experience only half of > literature's enduring power. It would be like living on the dark side of > the moon, unaware or uninterested in the lighted side. > > Noble workers like David Hinton are clearly very interested in exploring > what that core of enduring news is, and how best to present it across gulfs > of time and cultural shift. In a similar way, historical scholars and > teachers devote their time to the same exploration with Shakespeare, > Chaucer, and even the rapidly aging works of poets like Pound, Eliot, and > Williams. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 4 13:00:00 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 12:00:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4E3AD47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu>, , <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, , , , <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu>, <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> <4E3AD47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Glad to see you say it outright: "we need custodians of the old." Agreed. And despite your sometimes hyperbolic jabs, I've never said we don't need innovators, too. So we are in agreement about that. Let's drink a toast to sweet concord. Our disagreements seem to include pinning down definitions of things like "innovation" and "old," however, and that's a real ball of wax I don't intend to get much further into--not today, anyhow. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 4, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: >> Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his related slogan, "literature is news that stays news." > > Your putting quotation marks around "innovators" says it all, David. We need custodians of the old; it's just a shame that so many of them have no sympathy for anything but the old. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 13:33:46 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 19:33:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Hello David, this is just extremely well said. Especially your highlight to the notion that there are writings that are : "timelessly fresh," as much as translations. As a translator, I can't but confirm what you say, [thus, I must keep on studying... well not only for this reason.] As much as there are performances that never fade. see this, straight from 1911: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwb42QKgbaQ&feature=share On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:19 PM, David Graham wrote: > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation of my > opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's > much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has > been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his > related slogan, "literature is news that stays news." Which is directly > relevant not only to Pound's work as a translator but to projects like > Hinton's anthology surveying the tradition of classical Chinese poetry. > > Translations usually date even faster than original poetry, so no one is > more aware than a translator of the need to "make it new," which in this > case involves not just rendering from one language into another but putting > ancient texts into a linguistic form and style that will be appealing and > meaningful to contemporary readers. That's a process that must be > continually revisited and renewed, obviously. Many of Pound's own > translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes. > > But at the same time a translator must be keenly aware of those things that > make new translations worthwhile, which involve qualities in the original > which are, dare I say it, timelessly fresh. There is some core of news that > stays news in Li Po, Po Chu-I, Lu Yu, and the rest that generation after > generation gravitate toward and want to encounter afresh. Otherwise they > wouldn't be classic. > > To consistently downplay or ignore that truth is to experience only half of > literature's enduring power. It would be like living on the dark side of > the moon, unaware or uninterested in the lighted side. > > Noble workers like David Hinton are clearly very interested in exploring > what that core of enduring news is, and how best to present it across gulfs > of time and cultural shift. In a similar way, historical scholars and > teachers devote their time to the same exploration with Shakespeare, > Chaucer, and even the rapidly aging works of poets like Pound, Eliot, and > Williams. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > > I'm coming late to this party--have been traveling for a month or so--but > I'll readily admit that *I'm* not better than Bernstein. Some of those > songs in "West Side Story" are classics. . . . > > By the way, my most interesting bookstore find while traveling was David > Hinton's *Classical Chinese Poetry*, an anthology that somehow slipped by me > when it first appeared in 2008. (The paperback came out in 2010.) The kind > of book that justifies terms like "magisterial." > > Anyone read this book? Here's one thought I had: this sampling of three > millennia of classic poems from the likes of Tu Fu and Li Po (Hinton uses > the older English versions of their names), poems that have survived century > after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts > talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd > say. > > > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about > making it new. Good thinking. Except that no old poetry would last if > there were no innovative poets producing work that allowed it to have a rest > now and again. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 13:36:40 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:36:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Vielle_Pri=C3=A8re_bouddhique?= Message-ID: Vielle pri?re bouddhique May all things flow into whatever it is they are flowing into. May those who are lost find happiness in their lostness. May those who cannot tie their shoelaces learn to do without shoes. May those who behead one another keep their wits about them. May those who are slack straighten up and fly right. May the powerless learn to remember to pay their bills on time. May those who are unagitated bestir themselves to action. May those who are angry chill out. May all your prayers be answered or, perhaps even better, unanswered. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 13:35:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 19:35:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4E3AD47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> <4E3AD47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Opps, Bob, DO NOT READ MY POST I should have known better. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably reductive translation of >> my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a thought about Pound's >> much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems to me that not enough attention has >> been paid by legions of "innovators" from Pound's time to the present to his >> related slogan, "literature is news that stays news." >> > > Your putting quotation marks around "innovators" says it all, David. We > need custodians of the old; it's just a shame that so many of them have no > sympathy for anything but the old. > > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 15:17:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:17:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu><1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu><4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net><4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu><4E3A D47A.5020105@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 12:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Opps, Bob, DO NOT READ MY POST Too late, Anny. But I won't express my Great Ire, for I've already stated in immortal words more than once my belief that, however much I admire Keats, a thing of beauty (or freshness or whatever) is not a joy forever. We are all born with a susceptibility to boredom--because it is a necessary biological defense against stagnation. I do believe, however, that great art will inspire great counter-art that will Eliotically coat the former into something of value in a new way--that will inspire a fresh sort of counter-art. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 14:35:22 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 20:35:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4E3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@ripon.edu> <4E3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: that might stay timeless [I'd like to add], I still like Duchamp's urinal.... or our wonderful Docteur de Pataphysique, Mr. Faustroll! Not to mention Gargantua et Pantagruel and thanks for keeping your Ire in the Vase. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/4/2011 12:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Opps, Bob, DO NOT READ MY POST >> > > > Too late, Anny. But I won't express my Great Ire, for I've already stated > in immortal words more than once my belief that, however much I admire > Keats, a thing of beauty (or freshness or whatever) is not a joy forever. > We are all born with a susceptibility to boredom--because it is a necessary > biological defense against stagnation. I do believe, however, that great > art will inspire great counter-art that will Eliotically coat the former > into something of value in a new way--that will inspire a fresh sort of > counter-art. > > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 15:30:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:30:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Vielle_Pri=E8re_bouddhique?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It was a good day, wasn't it, Hal? 2011/8/4 Halvard Johnson > Vielle pri?re bouddhique > > May all things flow into whatever it is they are flowing into. > May those who are lost find happiness in their lostness. > May those who cannot tie their shoelaces learn to do without shoes. > May those who behead one another keep their wits about them. > May those who are slack straighten up and fly right. > May the powerless learn to remember to pay their bills on time. > May those who are unagitated bestir themselves to action. > May those who are angry chill out. May all your prayers > be answered or, perhaps even better, unanswered. > > > > > > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 15:42:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:42:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Vielle_Pri=C3=A8re_bouddhique?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No complaints here. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * 2011/8/4 Anny Ballardini > It was a good day, wasn't it, Hal? > > 2011/8/4 Halvard Johnson > >> Vielle pri?re bouddhique >> >> May all things flow into whatever it is they are flowing into. >> May those who are lost find happiness in their lostness. >> May those who cannot tie their shoelaces learn to do without shoes. >> May those who behead one another keep their wits about them. >> May those who are slack straighten up and fly right. >> May the powerless learn to remember to pay their bills on time. >> May those who are unagitated bestir themselves to action. >> May those who are angry chill out. May all your prayers >> be answered or, perhaps even better, unanswered. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >> >> *Mainly Black >> , **Obras P?blicas >> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >> ;* >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >> ; **Tango Bouquet >> ; **Theory of Harmony >> ; * >> ***Rapsodie espagnole >> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >> ; **The Sonnet Project >> ; * >> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >> Journey ; **Eclipse >> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >> ;* >> *Transparencies & Projections >> * >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 17:30:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:30:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu><1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E38589F.8060301@lou isiana.edu><4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net><4B4849A3-BFAB-4302-8A60-45D2D69D68E3@r ipon.edu><4E3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3B0F77.6070805@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 1:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > that might stay timeless [I'd like to add], I still like Duchamp's > urinal.... > or our wonderful Docteur de Pataphysique, Mr. Faustroll! Not to > mention Gargantua et Pantagruel > I'd argue that these things go in and out of timelessness. Also, that the Gargantua et Pantagruel you get pleasure from are not the original Gargantua et Pantegruel. There is also the possibility of loyalty to art we once got great pleasure from but no longer do. I don't get much from "lighght" or /La Boheme/ or /Look Homeward Angel/, for instance, but the /memory/ of what I got from them when they were new to me. One sad fact about the aesthetic experience of most of us (I believe) is the way we so often turn against the earliest of the artworks that have entranced us. But with travel afar--particularly to otherwheres where innovation occurs--we can come back to dead previous loves and find them revived. Or a great criticism (or, yeah, translation) can revive them for us. > and thanks for keeping your Ire in the Vase. > Hmmm, you make me think that, weirdly, I've never done a poem in praise of anger. I must do one! Anger is one thing that /is/ a joy forever! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 16:38:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:38:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <4E3B0F77.6070805@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> <4E3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net> <4E3B0F77.6070805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Rage on, B-bob. The light is dying. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/4/2011 1:35 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > that might stay timeless [I'd like to add], I still like Duchamp's > urinal.... > or our wonderful Docteur de Pataphysique, Mr. Faustroll! Not to mention > Gargantua et Pantagruel > > > I'd argue that these things go in and out of timelessness. Also, that the > Gargantua et Pantagruel you get pleasure from are not the original Gargantua > et Pantegruel. There is also the possibility of loyalty to art we once got > great pleasure from but no longer do. I don't get much from "lighght" or > *La Boheme* or *Look Homeward Angel*, for instance, but the *memory* of > what I got from them when they were new to me. One sad fact about the > aesthetic experience of most of us (I believe) is the way we so often turn > against the earliest of the artworks that have entranced us. But with > travel afar--particularly to otherwheres where innovation occurs--we can > come back to dead previous loves and find them revived. Or a great > criticism (or, yeah, translation) can revive them for us. > > and thanks for keeping your Ire in the Vase. > > Hmmm, you make me think that, weirdly, I've never done a poem in praise of > anger. I must do one! Anger is one thing that *is* a joy forever! > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Thu Aug 4 17:01:04 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:01:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bly's new book Message-ID: Article and interview with Robert Bly about his new collection, *Talking into the Ear of A Donkey*, including sample poems and audio, from Minnesota Public Radio: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/07/28/robert-bly/ If you like Bly, I think you'll find this new book a delight. He gets stranger with every year, I think. And I agree with Garrison Keillor, quoted in the above piece: "Bly has another friend and fan in Garrison Keillor, the host of the public radio program "A Prairie Home Companion." Keillor describes Bly as a mystical lyrical poet. "'He has written some of his best poems past the age of 70, and 75 and 80,' Keillor said recently. 'He has been a daring and productive writer in his old age, and to me this is brave and elegant and just completely admirable.'" ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Aug 4 17:06:32 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:06:32 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu> <1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu> <4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: > > poems that have survived century > after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts > talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd > say. > > Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about making > it new.? Good thinking. Except that in no way resembles what David actually SAID, a typical tactic you use to work your chip into the conversation. c From chris at chrislott.org Thu Aug 4 17:09:40 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:09:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <1311018816.99514.YahooMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-but.net> <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It is a good piece... and without being snarky, it would be stronger if you left the "much more" and took out the taxonomical terminology which doesn't actually clarify much and is painful on the ears. Micro-kernular? c On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > http://poeticks.com/bob-grummans-small-press-review-columns/column056-mayjune-2002/ > > It's one of my columns for Small Press Review.? Taxonomy but much more. > > Regardless of close to zero recognition of these columns of mine, which I'm > slowly storing in my blog, I'm happy with the majority of them--and the > worst are still of some historic significance because of the otherwise > completely neglected poetry they cover--(and, sorry, but I have to say it, > as good as just about anything you're likely to read in the Important > Periodicals). From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 18:30:51 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 00:30:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Vielle_Pri=E8re_bouddhique?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great, just to know. 2011/8/4 Halvard Johnson > No complaints here. > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > 2011/8/4 Anny Ballardini > >> It was a good day, wasn't it, Hal? >> >> 2011/8/4 Halvard Johnson >> >>> Vielle pri?re bouddhique >>> >>> May all things flow into whatever it is they are flowing into. >>> May those who are lost find happiness in their lostness. >>> May those who cannot tie their shoelaces learn to do without shoes. >>> May those who behead one another keep their wits about them. >>> May those who are slack straighten up and fly right. >>> May the powerless learn to remember to pay their bills on time. >>> May those who are unagitated bestir themselves to action. >>> May those who are angry chill out. May all your prayers >>> be answered or, perhaps even better, unanswered. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Serving the tri-state area. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home >>> >>> *Mainly Black >>> , **Obras P?blicas >>> ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets >>> ;* >>> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones >>> ; **Tango Bouquet >>> ; **Theory of Harmony >>> ; * >>> ***Rapsodie espagnole >>> ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway >>> ; **The Sonnet Project >>> ; * >>> ***G(e)nome ; **Winter >>> Journey ; **Eclipse >>> ; **The Dance of the Red Swan >>> ;* >>> *Transparencies & Projections >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 20:46:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:46:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu><1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net><4E 3AF054.5070306@nut-n-but.net><4E3B0F77.6070805@nut-n-but.ne t> Message-ID: <4E3B3D68.7020602@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 3:38 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Rage on, B-bob. The light is dying. > I shudder to think how /really/ stupid my posts would be if not for your incisive critiques, Hal. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 20:54:25 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:54:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu><1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu><4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3B3F41.5040805@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 4:06 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >> poems that have survived century >> after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts >> talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd >> say. >> >> Some old poetry lasts, so it's foolish for later poets to worry about making >> it new. Good thinking. > Except that in no way resembles what David actually SAID, a typical > tactic you use to work your chip into the conversation. > > c So you assert. Why don't you tell us what he /did /say? Tell us what "perspective" our sage academic is talking about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 21:04:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 20:04:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net><1311018816.99514.Yaho oMailRC@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><1311124970.61017.YahooMailNeo@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net><4E39CD0A.1080101@nut-n-bu t.net> <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3B4187.7010201@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 4:09 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > It is a good piece... and without being snarky, it would be stronger > if you left the "much more" and took out the taxonomical terminology > which doesn't actually clarify much and is painful on the ears. > Micro-kernular? > > c Thanks, Chris. Your suggestion would be good if it were a stand-alone piece--but, like much of what I write, it's part of a larger . . . perspective. I also believe I can't be the only one who likes systematic thinking, and doesn't mind neologisms. I tend to /need/ them to be able to think about things. Maybe it's just people in science, and me. Scientists seem comfortable with all kinds of words using macro, micro, nano and others I've seen but can't remember. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 4 21:22:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:22:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> Old post... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well express'd"?) I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: nothing new under the sun. So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly on technical issues. Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the moon. Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the available territory. How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 4 21:53:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:53:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith Message-ID: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/books/review/devotions-by-bruce-smith-book-review.html Bruce Smith?s new poems move fast and travel far, from Newtonian physics to the ?fiery . . . riderless horse? of Christian apocalypse, ?from the jet engine / as it gins the clouds? to ?the hand-iron press and the sewing machine.? Most of those poems, though, begin in one place: a notion of blue-collar manhood, full of rough edges, frustration, defiance and pride -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 4 22:14:44 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 22:14:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: New Zealand names new Poet Laureate Message-ID: <8CE212C935FBBAD-D90-E758@Webmail-d111.sysops.aol.com> http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5390519/New-poet-laureate-scrambles-for-right-words Ian Wedde makes his living from words but he admitted he was almost lost for them when he found out he was going to be New Zealand's new poet laureate. In a ceremony in Parliament yesterday, Wedde was awarded the two-year tenure, taking over the role from Bluff poet Cilla McQueen. He will receive $80,000 of public funding during his two years. He is expected to produce a publication of the work written during the period and to publicly advocate for and present poetry. Wedde said he hoped to work with the National Library, which administers the position, on work dealing with memories ? relating to his own childhood in Blenheim as well more general memories. The $80,000 pay cheque meant he would be able to focus more on his writing. "Without this I would have had to pick up freelance jobs." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 4 23:32:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 22:32:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Y I'm better than Bernstein In-Reply-To: References: <4E384B8F.2060501@louisiana.edu><1312313884.82698.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E38589F.8060301@louisiana.edu><4E3AAD9C.9040701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3B6441.30907@nut-n-but.net> On 8/4/2011 4:06 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> On 8/3/2011 8:54 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >> poems that have survived century >> after century of every opinion that has been thrown at them--kind of puts >> talk of "Wilshberia," Language Poetry and the rest into perspective, I'd >> say. >> A problem with deciding what David said, by the way, is that he certainly seems to be referring to a number of posts about Wilshberia, Language Poetry and similar kinds of moose-skull kicking, and he does so in a very vague way. Which posts does he mean, for example? Were not some of them about the value of making it new? I would guess everyone who has read any of these posts will have his own idea what they say, and thus what David meant by his reference to them. --Bob From almaginnes at aol.com Thu Aug 4 22:57:08 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> This is Smith's best by far. Well worth reading. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 9:54 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/books/review/devotions-by-bruce-smith-book-review.html Bruce Smith?s new poems move fast and travel far, from Newtonian physics to the ?fiery . . . riderless horse? of Christian apocalypse, ?from the jet engine / as it gins the clouds? to ?the hand-iron press and the sewing machine.? Most of those poems, though, begin in one place: a notion of blue-collar manhood, full of rough edges, frustration, defiance and pride _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 00:16:17 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 06:16:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Undoubtedly, he had many talents. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 AM, wrote: > Old post... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > > > > I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ > > > Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well > express'd"?) > > I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new > is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of > theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: nothing new under the sun. So the > pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly > on technical issues. Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark > side of the moon. Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the > available territory. > > How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good > handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. But I'm convinced > that there is a distinction worth making here. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > = > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Aug 5 01:40:00 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:40:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: <4E3B4187.7010201@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> <4E3B4187.7010201@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Thanks, Chris.? Your suggestion would be good if it were a stand-alone > piece--but, like much of what I write, it's part of a larger . . . > perspective.? I also believe I can't be the only one who likes systematic > thinking, and doesn't mind neologisms.? I tend to need them to be able to > think about things. > > Maybe it's just people in science, and me.? Scientists seem comfortable with > all kinds of words using macro, micro, nano and others I've seen but can't > remember. I'm not averse to systematic thinking... when it reveals something not otherwise easily seen. Nor do I mind scientific terminology... when it's necessary for precision. Your piece would be stronger without the pretensions. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 5 07:58:26 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 06:58:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com><17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu><8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m 001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3BDAE2.1020206@nut-n-but.net> > > I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making > it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting > in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: nothing > new under the sun. > Yep. But if all we had to work with was theme, we could dumped art after the first year or two. There really aren't that many "deeply important and lasting" themes. > So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) > to focusing mostly on technical issues. > I don't know of any "pure novelty-seekers." What else does a poet have to work with besides subject-matter (which would include theme) and technique? I'm serious. I can't think of anything else. > > Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the > moon. Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the > available territory. > > How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have > a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. > But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. > > I use the words interchangeably. But I think there are two kinds of newness in the arts, major and minor. A new technique and the new way of using a standard technique--the sonnet form when invented versus a new rhyme scheme for a sonnet. I don't think there is such a thing as a new theme although I suppose new slants on old themes is possible. Same with subject matter--new myths, for example, but always the same final mythology. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 5 08:03:07 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:03:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net><4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net><4E3B4187.7010201@nut -n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3BDBFB.80104@nut-n-but.net> On 8/5/2011 12:40 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> Thanks, Chris. Your suggestion would be good if it were a stand-alone >> piece--but, like much of what I write, it's part of a larger . . . >> perspective. I also believe I can't be the only one who likes systematic >> thinking, and doesn't mind neologisms. I tend to need them to be able to >> think about things. >> >> Maybe it's just people in science, and me. Scientists seem comfortable with >> all kinds of words using macro, micro, nano and others I've seen but can't >> remember. > I'm not averse to systematic thinking... when it reveals something not > otherwise easily seen. Nor do I mind scientific terminology... when > it's necessary for precision. Your piece would be stronger without the > pretensions. > > c They are not pretensions, Chris. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 5 08:15:00 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:15:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> <8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3BDEC4.6020303@nut-n-but.net> Here I go again. I want to know why the review was worth writing. Why not, instead, a capsule report on twenty collections like it, each giving the subject matter, point of view, and a few quotations from the poetry concerned? (I do think the review a good one so far as it goes, and Smith does seem like a poet worth reading.) --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 5 09:22:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 08:22:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net><4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net><4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net><4E3B4187.7010201@nut -n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E3BEEA6.7010507@nut-n-but.net> >I'm not averse to systematic thinking... when it reveals>something not otherwise easily Can't stop explaining. I think I mainly use coinages to keep track of things. Part of that is which pigeonhole it labels--and how that pigeonhole relates to the other pigeonholes in its building, and how the building related to other collections of pigeonholes, etc. Another reason for my coinages is my annoyance with vague descriptions. A critic who hasn't dealt with the kind of truly small poems I have may speak of "short poems" meaning sonnets and the like. Sure, I usually know what he means. Still . . . I think, too, that superfluous coinages should be forgiven on the grounds that (1) better too much precision than too little (for a critic since precision should be a main goal of his), and (2) superfluous coinages will disappear before too long. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 08:18:42 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:18:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems Message-ID: Click your heels very fast, or click here --> *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems * Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 08:25:44 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:25:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Characteristic Piece of My Practical Criticism In-Reply-To: <4E3BEEA6.7010507@nut-n-but.net> References: <1310851346.46173.YahooMailClassic@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4E221A9F.5060805@nut-n-but.net> <4E24AFC4.2010004@nut-n-but.net> <4E27579A.9040407@nut-n-but.net> <4E39E555.4090107@nut-n-but.net> <4E3BEEA6.7010507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah, the lonely crusade continues . . . I'm so pleased to be your Sancho Panza. Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > I'm not averse to systematic thinking... when it reveals>something not >> otherwise easily >> > > Can't stop explaining. I think I mainly use coinages to keep track of > things. Part of that is which pigeonhole it labels--and how that pigeonhole > relates to the other pigeonholes in its building, and how the building > related to other collections of pigeonholes, etc. > > Another reason for my coinages is my annoyance with vague descriptions. A > critic who hasn't dealt with the kind of truly small poems I have may speak > of "short poems" meaning sonnets and the like. Sure, I usually know what he > means. Still . . . > > I think, too, that superfluous coinages should be forgiven on the grounds > that (1) better too much precision than too little (for a critic since > precision should be a main goal of his), and (2) superfluous coinages will > disappear before too long. > > --Bob > > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 5 12:29:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:29:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Burt review Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> <8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4B1DBDBC-C489-476D-9898-FF09F83B6361@ripon.edu> I'll have to look it up. I think the last book of his I read came out a decade ago or more. Has he published others recently? Used to be a big fan of *Silver & Information* when it first appeared; haven't paid much attention to Smith in a long while. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:57 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > This is Smith's best by far. Well worth reading. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames > To: new-poetry > Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 9:54 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/books/review/devotions-by-bruce-smith-book-review.html > > Bruce Smith?s new poems move fast and travel far, from Newtonian physics to the ?fiery . . . riderless horse? of Christian apocalypse, ?from the jet engine / as it gins the clouds? to ?the hand-iron press and the sewing machine.? Most of those poems, though, begin in one place: a notion of blue-collar manhood, full of rough edges, frustration, defiance and pride > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 13:19:29 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 19:19:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] short Message-ID: Ed Sanders on Allen Ginsberg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Uyx_TG4CM&feature=player_embedded -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 5 15:52:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1312573974.80980.YahooMailNeo@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Novelty and quality do not necessarily go hand in hand. Better is an improvement. Maybe by newness, Pound meant a paradigm shift. Freshness is simply doing something that isn't stale, or shop worn. Of the early Modernist of Pound's era, who would qualify for such a shift in writing ... lots of obvious choices. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Undoubtedly, he had many talents. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 AM, wrote: Old post... >http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html > > > > >? >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > > > > > > >On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > >> >> >>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ > >Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ?("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well express'd"?) ? > > >I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: ?nothing new under the sun. ?So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly on technical issues. ?Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the moon. ?Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the available territory. > > >How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. ?But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. > > > > > > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > = >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 5 16:01:42 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 13:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <1312573974.80980.YahooMailNeo@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> <1312573974.80980.YahooMailNeo@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1312574502.64681.YahooMailNeo@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In Thomas Kuhn's sense, a paradigm shift is a radical change of world-view. People tend to overuse the phrase. ________________________________ From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Novelty and quality do not necessarily go hand in hand. Better is an improvement. Maybe by newness, Pound meant a paradigm shift. Freshness is simply doing something that isn't stale, or shop worn. Of the early Modernist of Pound's era, who would qualify for such a shift in writing ... lots of obvious choices. ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Undoubtedly, he had many talents. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 AM, wrote: Old post... >http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html > > > > >? >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > > > > > > >On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > >> >> >>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ > >Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ?("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well express'd"?) ? > > >I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: ?nothing new under the sun. ?So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly on technical issues. ?Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the moon. ?Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the available territory. > > >How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. ?But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. > > > > > > > > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu > > >Home Page: >http://web.me.com/drjazz > > >Poetry Library: >http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >========================================== > > = >_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 16:28:14 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:28:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: <1312574502.64681.YahooMailNeo@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <44d36.3894e7f2.3b6c20a6@cs.com> <17D02B6B-3521-4545-BD62-A73CDE1E3973@ripon.edu> <8CE21253D3788D2-1374-1B690@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> <1312573974.80980.YahooMailNeo@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1312574502.64681.YahooMailNeo@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As they do "avant-garde." Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:01 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > In Thomas Kuhn's sense, a paradigm shift is a radical change of world-view. > People tend to overuse the phrase. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* stephen russell > > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Friday, August 5, 2011 3:52 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > Novelty and quality do not necessarily go hand in hand. Better is an > improvement. > Maybe by newness, Pound meant a paradigm shift. Freshness is simply doing > something that isn't stale, or shop worn. > > Of the early Modernist of Pound's era, who would qualify for such a shift > in writing ... lots of obvious choices. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Friday, August 5, 2011 12:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > Undoubtedly, he had many talents. > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 AM, wrote: > > Old post... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news > > > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > > > > I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ > > > Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well > express'd"?) > > I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new > is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of > theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: nothing new under the sun. So the > pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly > on technical issues. Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark > side of the moon. Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the > available territory. > > How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good > handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. But I'm convinced > that there is a distinction worth making here. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > = > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 5 17:55:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 17:55:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Found Poetry Review Message-ID: <8CE21D196B4F7B9-2AC8-1EFE@webmail-m091.sysops.aol.com> http://www.gazette.net/article/20110803/ENTERTAINMENT/708039914/1148/bethesda-resident-creates-first-journal-dedicated-to-found-poetry&template=gazette Bethesda resident creates first journal dedicated to found poetry by Topher Forhecz, Staff Writer When it comes to poetry, Bethesda resident Jenni B. Baker enjoys the thrill of the hunt. She browses websites like Wikipedia, hunts Twitter feeds and scans the titles of books to find the lines of her next poem. Baker is a fan of found poetry, a style of writing that takes existing text and re-imagines it. In July, Baker became a conduit for writers of found poetry when she published the inaugural edition of The Found Poetry Review, an online literary journal exclusively dedicated to the style. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri Aug 5 19:21:55 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories and charges for the poet. If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > thought about > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan.? Seems > to me that not enough > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > from Pound's time > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > news that stays > > news."? From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Aug 5 19:37:56 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 19:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] [Burt review Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <4B1DBDBC-C489-476D-9898-FF09F83B6361@ripon.edu> References: <8CE2129A8ADCB98-1374-1BA73@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com><8CE21327FA8398A-1DE0-6079@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4B1DBDBC-C489-476D-9898-FF09F83B6361@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE21DFD6430D44-143C-666A@webmail-m075.sysops.aol.com> It's worth reading. Silver and Information was the last book of his I read and I didn't like it much as I recall. Not enough to reread at any rate. I know he's had one or two since then that have done well, been a finalist for one prize or another. But I really think this is a step forward. For what it's worth, I don't agree with Burt's assessment or the headline that proclaims this poetry for tough guys. Smith is far more skilled and nuanced than the would be Bukowski a headline like this puts me in mind of. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 12:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [Burt review Bruce Smith I'll have to look it up. I think the last book of his I read came out a decade ago or more. Has he published others recently? Used to be a big fan of *Silver & Information* when it first appeared; haven't paid much attention to Smith in a long while. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:57 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: This is Smith's best by far. Well worth reading. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 9:54 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Burt review Bruce Smith http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/books/review/devotions-by-bruce-smith-book-review.html Bruce Smith?s new poems move fast and travel far, from Newtonian physics to the ?fiery . . . riderless horse? of Christian apocalypse, ?from the jet engine / as it gins the clouds? to ?the hand-iron press and the sewing machine.? Most of those poems, though, begin in one place: a notion of blue-collar manhood, full of rough edges, frustration, defiance and pride _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Aug 5 20:25:23 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 00:25:23 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 5 20:50:39 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 5 21:25:11 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:25:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89EB1670-5D7C-47B1-9E89-6735DB572C79@ripon.edu> There being a number of teachers on this list, I don't know who R Dillon refers to exactly with his sneering address to "the Professor," but since I raised the issue of Pound's translations it could be me. But I most certainly did not write that Pound's own poetry is "fading" and "showing signs of wear." (Some of it is, but that's true of any poet, and that's another argument entirely.) And far from bashing Pound, as R Dillon appears to fancy, I was *praising* him for his wonderful definition of poetry as "news that stays news." Here's what I did write, in reference not to The Cantos or any of Pound's great poems, but to his early translations, which, like all translations, tend to date more rapidly than some poetry: "Many of Pound's own translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes." Not all, but many. (Not his "Cathay" versions, for the most part.) This idea that translations of the classics need to be re-imagined for each new generation is hardly a new notion, nor had I thought it controversial & in need of illustration in Pound's case. But just because I'm in such an accommodating mood, I'll give a few samples of what I was envisioning when I called some of EP's translations "musty." Judge for yourself. Phoebus shineth ere his splendour flieth, Aurora drives faint light athwart the land And the drowsy watcher crieth, "ARISE!" and: In April when I see all through Mead and garden new flowers blow, And streams with ice-bands broken flow, Eke hear the birds their singing do; When spring's grass-perfume floateth by Then 'tis sweet song and birdlet's cry Do make mine old joy come anew. and: But if e'er I come to my Love's land And turn again to Syrian strand, God keep me there for a fool, alway! Well, the splendour certainly flieth here, doesn't it? So so always, it would certainly make mine old joy come anew if folks responded to what I actually write. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 5, 2011, at 7:25 PM, R Dillon wrote: > There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. > > Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. > > "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." > > And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Fri Aug 5 21:52:09 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 01:52:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and TALKED, in CIRCLES. (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in the Rose Garden, we need To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money.To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Aug 6 00:30:27 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 04:30:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <89EB1670-5D7C-47B1-9E89-6735DB572C79@ripon.edu> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <89EB1670-5D7C-47B1-9E89-6735DB572C79@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Okay. I apologize. From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:25:11 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There being a number of teachers on this list, I don't know who R Dillon refers to exactly with his sneering address to "the Professor," but since I raised the issue of Pound's translations it could be me. But I most certainly did not write that Pound's own poetry is "fading" and "showing signs of wear." (Some of it is, but that's true of any poet, and that's another argument entirely.) And far from bashing Pound, as R Dillon appears to fancy, I was *praising* him for his wonderful definition of poetry as "news that stays news." Here's what I did write, in reference not to The Cantos or any of Pound's great poems, but to his early translations, which, like all translations, tend to date more rapidly than some poetry: "Many of Pound's own translations give off a slightly musty odor today, as far as that goes." Not all, but many. (Not his "Cathay" versions, for the most part.) This idea that translations of the classics need to be re-imagined for each new generation is hardly a new notion, nor had I thought it controversial & in need of illustration in Pound's case. But just because I'm in such an accommodating mood, I'll give a few samples of what I was envisioning when I called some of EP's translations "musty." Judge for yourself. Phoebus shineth ere his splendour flieth, Aurora drives faint light athwart the land And the drowsy watcher crieth, "ARISE!" and: In April when I see all through Mead and garden new flowers blow, And streams with ice-bands broken flow, Eke hear the birds their singing do; When spring's grass-perfume floateth by Then 'tis sweet song and birdlet's cry Do make mine old joy come anew. and: But if e'er I come to my Love's land And turn again to Syrian strand, God keep me there for a fool, alway! Well, the splendour certainly flieth here, doesn't it? So so always, it would certainly make mine old joy come anew if folks responded to what I actually write. . . .========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.eduHome Page:http://web.me.com/drjazzPoetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Aug 5, 2011, at 7:25 PM, R Dillon wrote:There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Aug 6 00:57:07 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 04:57:07 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: I wouldn't call my post, "sneering," but rather inappropriately remonstrative. Still, there are some good things in it,motivated by my unintentionally creative misreading of the professor's remarks. We simply must deal with what Pound told us about usury. It's right there before us, now, with the fiat money, the debt, the Fed,and the welfare, from Soros, to GE, to masses of displaced people, in a dysfunctional state funded by other people's money growing more worthless every second. When Pound hoped that a man would have a house of well cut stone, he didn't mean getting it by means of Freddy and Fanny and Beltway Kleptocrats. Pound was the only poet who grappled with this problem. We need to discuss where he lost faith in Jefferson, and why, and how he came to believe in Mussolini, who, didn't believe in Pound! From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 00:25:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Aug 6 08:44:41 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Apart from all that, got anything against her? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: > Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her > professors at Johns Hopkins. > > She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, > and TALKED, in CIRCLES. > > (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, > gnats whirled over swamps.) > > Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: > "That's not writing, that's typing." > > Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! > > Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He > wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, > > An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, > > At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White > House, > > Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in > the Rose Garden, we need > > To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his > poetry, some of > > The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow > Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. > > Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as > vividly as Jackson Pollock. > > Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, > astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. > > And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his > Jeremiads against crap money. > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... > > He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, > but if you were not, not. > > ?Gertrude Stein, *The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas* (Harcourt Brace, > NY, 1933. p. 246) > BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... > The Steins Collect > http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 > at SFMOMA > and Contemporary Jewish Museum... > http://www.thecjm.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, > or wants to. > > Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," > doesn't know how to read Pound. > > "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You > can't go around them." > > And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail > for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > > > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > > and charges for the poet. > > > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the > 1913 > > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should > be lard free." > > > > > > Be well > > > > David Baratier, Editor > > > > Pavement Saw Press > > 321 Empire Street > > Montpelier OH 43543 > > http://pavementsaw.org > > > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > Facebook Page > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has > provoked a > > > thought about > > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > > to me that not enough > > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > > from Pound's time > > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > > news that stays > > > > news." > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 6 10:01:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 09:01:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3D4949.5010500@nut-n-but.net> On 8/5/2011 7:50 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... > He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a > village, but if you were not, not. My response to this, long ago, was that Gertrude Stein was a village dumbfounder. No one has yet requoted me, but maybe Richard will. She also said that Joyce smelled of the museum, or something like it. That always intrigued me, for my impression of Stein is that she just about never connected to any Grand Tradition. I'm plus/minus on Gertrude--terrific in some ways, ridiculous in others; an important minor figure in literature. Worth reading up on, which I've not done to much of an extent. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Aug 6 11:55:07 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= Message-ID: <1312646107.83956.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> * Did bias play a role?? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough?? Was the proposal poorly worded?? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year?? Did they last year?? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here -? http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 6 13:19:10 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 13:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <1312646107.83956.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1312646107.83956.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE227416B51696-304-12028@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> I was on proposals for two panels and a reading this year and they all got struck down. I don't know what the criteria are in making these decisions, but it seems to me as I scan the list every year that the same topics, in a different name, seem to make the cut year after year. And I'm not sure that Carnegie Mellon Press needs a reading two years in a row. The childcare topic is a good one. I hope to bring my daughter to AWP when it's in Boston because I was born there and would like her to see her great grandmother's house. I've never been aware of any organized or even informal childcare at AWP. My impression was always that it was catch as catch can. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; pussipo Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical * Did bias play a role? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough? Was the proposal poorly worded? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year? Did they last year? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 6 13:20:26 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 13:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <1312646107.83956.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1312646107.83956.YahooMailNeo@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE2274443BB192-304-12045@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> And anyone who's sat through an indifferent panel loaded with big namescan quickly see the flaw in selecting panels based on the rankings of the panel members. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; pussipo Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical * Did bias play a role? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough? Was the proposal poorly worded? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year? Did they last year? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Aug 6 14:10:26 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:10:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= Message-ID: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 6 14:24:02 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CE227D26992423-304-12749@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> I proposed a panel on the lyric narrative--that is poets who write narrative or somewhat narrative poetry (poetry where you can tell what the hell is happening) but also have a concern for language. The other panel that got shot down that I was on was a panel made up of writers who had adopted internationally and how that had changed our writing or if it had. We thought this would be sort of a mirror to a panel last year made up of young writers who had been adopted from other countries. I don't know if there's bias or not. I do notice that certain buzzwords seem to occur from year to year. This year the word "diaspora " seemed to crop up in a lot of panels that were accepted. And "transgressive." -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical I certainly have no pony in this race--I went to two AWPs as a vendor and would only go back if paid a lot. And I think I've made it clear in the past, not that anyone cares, that for me the existence of AWP is a symptom of the degraded state of poetry as industry and community in the US. That said, people have been posting on FB their success at getting what in some cases seem to me ghastly panel topics accepted. It would help an outsider understand what's going on if there were an example or two of topics that didn't make it. Is there bias, and if so, what kind? Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Aug 6, 2011 1:20 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical And anyone who's sat through an indifferent panel loaded with big namescan quickly see the flaw in selecting panels based on the rankings of the panel members. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; pussipo Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical * Did bias play a role? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough? Was the proposal poorly worded? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year? Did they last year? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Aug 6 14:31:20 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:31:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= Message-ID: <7110127.1312655480790.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 6 14:56:59 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <7110127.1312655480790.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <7110127.1312655480790.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CE2281C15FED03-304-129DF@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> Could be. As I said I have no idea what goes into the decision making process. -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical One of the panels announced on FB was about narrative poetry. Could have been a question of first-come-first-served? -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Aug 6, 2011 2:24 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical I proposed a panel on the lyric narrative--that is poets who write narrative or somewhat narrative poetry (poetry where you can tell what the hell is happening) but also have a concern for language. The other panel that got shot down that I was on was a panel made up of writers who had adopted internationally and how that had changed our writing or if it had. We thought this would be sort of a mirror to a panel last year made up of young writers who had been adopted from other countries. I don't know if there's bias or not. I do notice that certain buzzwords seem to occur from year to year. This year the word "diaspora " seemed to crop up in a lot of panels that were accepted. And "transgressive." -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical I certainly have no pony in this race--I went to two AWPs as a vendor and would only go back if paid a lot. And I think I've made it clear in the past, not that anyone cares, that for me the existence of AWP is a symptom of the degraded state of poetry as industry and community in the US. That said, people have been posting on FB their success at getting what in some cases seem to me ghastly panel topics accepted. It would help an outsider understand what's going on if there were an example or two of topics that didn't make it. Is there bias, and if so, what kind? Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Aug 6, 2011 1:20 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical And anyone who's sat through an indifferent panel loaded with big namescan quickly see the flaw in selecting panels based on the rankings of the panel members. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; pussipo Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical * Did bias play a role? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough? Was the proposal poorly worded? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year? Did they last year? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Sat Aug 6 17:33:33 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mark, I was on a panel last year called Poets Wrestling with Research (where we discussed how we used research to write poems). Poets Wrestling with Research. (Andrea Scarpino, Douglas Kearney, Erica Dawson, Carrie Shipers, Millicent Borges Accardi) Although we are told to write what we know, many poets consider research an integral part of their writing and revision process. Whether that research is historical, literary, or familial, poets who use research in their writing draw on a wealth of techniques in the writing process. Five poets who wrestle with research in their work will discuss how doing so informs, strengthens, and challenges their writing, as well as some of the unique problems inherent in writing research-laden poetry. There is no mention of "transgression" or "diasphora" in the proposal. However, I will say that the organizer re-submitted a Part Two of this same panel for 2012, and it was shot down, Onward, Millicent -----Original Message----- From: junction To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:18 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical I certainly have no pony in this race--I went to two AWPs as a vendor and would only go back if paid a lot. And I think I've made it clear in the past, not that anyone cares, that for me the existence of AWP is a symptom of the degraded state of poetry as industry and community in the US. That said, people have been posting on FB their success at getting what in some cases seem to me ghastly panel topics accepted. It would help an outsider understand what's going on if there were an example or two of topics that didn't make it. Is there bias, and if so, what kind? Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes at aol.com Sent: Aug 6, 2011 1:20 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical And anyone who's sat through an indifferent panel loaded with big namescan quickly see the flaw in selecting panels based on the rankings of the panel members. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: UB Poetics discussion group ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; pussipo Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical * Did bias play a role? Are the panelists and I not noteworthy enough? Was the proposal poorly worded? Is my focus on the least popular genre? * Has AWP been working on locating options for parents who bring children this year? Did they last year? Do they network these parents so that they might be able to collaborate and share babysitting duties, thus permitting more mobility? Explored here - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/awp-panel-proposal-rejected-lets-get-technical/ Thanks, Amy _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 6 19:10:09 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 18:10:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=96_Let?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3DC9D1.5020707@nut-n-but.net> On 8/6/2011 4:33 PM, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: > Hi Mark, > I was on a panel last year called Poets Wrestling with Research (where > we discussed how we used research to write poems). > *Poets Wrestling with Research. *(Andrea Scarpino, Douglas Kearney, > Erica Dawson, Carrie Shipers, Millicent Borges Accardi) Although we > are told to write what we know, many poets consider research an > integral part of their writing and revision process. Whether that > research is historical, literary, or familial, poets who use research > in their writing draw on a wealth of techniques in the writing > process. Five poets who wrestle with research in their work will > discuss how doing so informs, strengthens, and challenges their > writing, as well as some of the unique problems inherent in writing > research-laden poetry. > There is no mention of "transgression" or "diasphora" in the proposal. > However, I will say that the organizer re-submitted a Part Two of this > same panel for 2012, and it was shot down, > Onward, > Millicent Haw, so "wrestling" is not transgressive!? (Hadda do a Hal before the master himself did,) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 6 19:11:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 18:11:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=96_Let?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3DCA2D.5000403@nut-n-but.net> Also, to research something is to act transgressively against the original search. (You see, I know all the tricks, though I'd never get a panel accepted anywhere!) --Bob From almaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 6 20:20:33 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 00:20:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=96_Let?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1221811273-1312676433-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111576255-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> If he'd said you were doing transgressive research, you'd be a shoo in! ;-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:33:33 To: Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let ?s Get Technical _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From millb at aol.com Sat Aug 6 20:34:10 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <1221811273-1312676433-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111576255-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> <1221811273-1312676433-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111576255-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <8CE22B0DB8F6FC7-1364-26BB4@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Or maybe "transgender?" -----Original Message----- From: almaginnes To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let?s Get Technical If he'd said you were doing transgressive research, you'd be a shoo in! ;-) ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- rom: Millicent Borges Accardi ender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu ate: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:33:33 o: eply-To: NewPoetry List ubject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP Panel Proposal Rejected ? Let ?s Get Technical _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 6 20:41:17 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 19:41:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tiny Toot Message-ID: <8E81D020-1D10-4533-B3B4-41D24A54B9C5@ripon.edu> "There's nothing worse than old people talking about sex" was the prompt. The poem I wrote in response is currently featured at Robin Chapman's Poem a Day blog: http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/by-david-graham-between-classes-theres.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 6 20:45:26 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 19:45:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank Message-ID: Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 00:29:13 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 21:29:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=96_Let?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_Get_Technical?= In-Reply-To: <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> References: <15562453.1312654227511.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CE2297A0895CED-1364-253AC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: things that didn't go: a "non-workshop pedagogy" gambit for creative writing talking frankly about the obvious spirituality/religiousity in poems now (incidentally an all female, all experimental panel) Barbara Guest < From junction at earthlink.net Sun Aug 7 00:50:28 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 00:50:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?AWP_Panel_Proposal_Rejected_=E2=80=93_Let?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Get_Technical?= Message-ID: <27449810.1312692629127.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 02:10:13 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 08:10:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tiny Toot In-Reply-To: <8E81D020-1D10-4533-B3B4-41D24A54B9C5@ripon.edu> References: <8E81D020-1D10-4533-B3B4-41D24A54B9C5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: An excellent and very sad poem. On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:41 AM, David Graham wrote: > "There's nothing worse than old people talking about sex" was the prompt. > The poem I wrote in response is currently featured at Robin Chapman's Poem > a Day blog: > > > http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/by-david-graham-between-classes-theres.html > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 03:33:31 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 09:33:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Your rhetoric on Dickinson is quite interesting, and yes, in my mind, the way I have read her, she simply wanted to know if what she was doing was good. You have also to set her in her historical time. Compared to other people with whom she lived, she did not 'need' anything, in consumers' terms. She was looking for kindred spirits, that is why she stepped out. On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:45 AM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent > Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The > title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 03:38:04 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 09:38:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is wonderful writing: I re-read Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman as needed, and remind myself how delicious it can feel to walk barefoot through this world. I think this is the way I know you, congratulations. On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:45 AM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent > Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The > title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 7 11:57:22 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Anny. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 2:38 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > This is wonderful writing: > > I re-read Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman as needed, and remind myself how delicious it can feel to walk barefoot through this world. > > I think this is the way I know you, congratulations. > > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:45 AM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 7 12:00:12 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 09:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1312732812.74749.YahooMailNeo@web160120.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ditto, a nice read, David. Amicalement, (Dr.!?!) Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank Thanks, Anny. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 2:38 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: This is wonderful writing: > >I re-read Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman as needed, and remind myself how delicious it can feel to walk barefoot through this world.? > >I think this is the way I know you, congratulations. > > >On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:45 AM, David Graham wrote: > >Another toot while I'm at it. ?A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. >> >> >>It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. ?The title is of course from Dickinson. ? >> >> >>http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html >> >> >>======================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 13:00:56 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> A poem of mine online at Steel Toe Review. Beware, ye non-Wilshberians! http://steeltoereview.com/2011/08/05/district-court-as-community-theater-by-al-maginnes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 13:09:44 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:09:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Read with interest. I had, so to speak, lost interest in Eberhardt already. However, being right or wrong about the future is easy, especially being wrong. We'll see later who was who. On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent > Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The > title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 7 14:45:34 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 13:45:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: < E98B67AE-12F2-4DDA-BB98-8280D7098B79@ripon.edu> <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3EDD4E.6080503@nut-n-but.net> On 8/7/2011 12:00 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > A poem of mine online at Steel Toe Review. Beware, ye non-Wilshberians! Dang, yet another for my list of Enemies! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 13:50:20 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:50:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice piece on Eberhart, Dickinson, and Graham, David. I find it easier to recognize ambition and fame than I do failure in poetry. Your remarks on Eberhart reminded me of a great adventure in poetry at an NCTE conference in Houston back some decades ago, standing around in a great room with some friends and acquaintances who'd come to hear the famous and ambitious read their works (some are still ambition, if less famous nowadays), when I felt a hand on my shoulder and turned to see Robert Graves approaching the group with a question: "Well, what's going on here?" He was the conferences keynote speaker that year. I don't recall that anyone in the group (Robert Creeley, Keith Wilson, Phil Garrison, and me, among others) had an answer for him. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > Read with interest. I had, so to speak, lost interest in Eberhardt already. > However, being right or wrong about the future is easy, especially being > wrong. We'll see later who was who. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most >> recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. >> >> It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. >> The title is of course from Dickinson. >> >> http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 14:02:08 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 18:02:08 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <4E3EDD4E.6080503@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com><4E3EDD4E.6080503@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1948429001-1312740130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-409679805-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Hee hee. Now read the poem, Bob. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 13:45:34 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 14:27:52 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 11:27:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Here's a link to one of mine, reprinted in *The Examiner*. http://www.examiner.com/poetry-in-oakland/poets-write-prose-poems-1 Best, Carol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 7 15:12:05 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:12:05 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , Message-ID: A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Apart from all that, got anything against her? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and TALKED, in CIRCLES. (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in the Rose Garden, we need To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 15:16:43 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:16:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Each one fresh. Guaranteed. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:12 PM, R Dillon wrote: > > > > A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 > From: halvard at gmail.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Apart from all that, got anything against her? > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems > , Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon < > elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her > professors at Johns Hopkins. > > She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, > and TALKED, in CIRCLES. > > (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, > gnats whirled over swamps.) > > Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: > "That's not writing, that's typing." > > Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! > > Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He > wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, > > An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, > > At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White > House, > > Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in > the Rose Garden, we need > > To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his > poetry, some of > > The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow > Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. > > Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as > vividly as Jackson Pollock. > > Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, > astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. > > And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his > Jeremiads against crap money. > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... > > He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, > but if you were not, not. > > ?Gertrude Stein, *The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas* (Harcourt Brace, > NY, 1933. p. 246) > BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... > The Steins Collect > http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 > at SFMOMA > and Contemporary Jewish Museum... > http://www.thecjm.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, > or wants to. > > Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," > doesn't know how to read Pound. > > "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You > can't go around them." > > And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail > for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > > > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > > and charges for the poet. > > > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the > 1913 > > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should > be lard free." > > > > > > Be well > > > > David Baratier, Editor > > > > Pavement Saw Press > > 321 Empire Street > > Montpelier OH 43543 > > http://pavementsaw.org > > > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > Facebook Page > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has > provoked a > > > thought about > > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > > to me that not enough > > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > > from Pound's time > > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > > news that stays > > > > news." > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 15:17:35 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , Message-ID: <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Michelle Malkin over Gertrude Stein. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Apart from all that, got anything against her? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and TALKED, in CIRCLES. (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in the Rose Garden, we need To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 15:18:14 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:18:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yeap, we'll see later... On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > Read with interest. I had, so to speak, lost interest in Eberhardt already. > However, being right or wrong about the future is easy, especially being > wrong. We'll see later who was who. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most >> recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. >> >> It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. >> The title is of course from Dickinson. >> >> http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Aug 7 15:22:45 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:22:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound Message-ID: <15099160.1312744966190.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 7 15:33:09 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:33:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lovely anecdote, Hal, and thanks. I was at a poetry conference once decades ago, and William Stafford was one featured poet. The keynote speaker was Hugh Kenner. At breakfast one day Stafford ambled up to a bunch of us young ones and pointed out Kenner, who was eating alone. He said that it would be a real waste if somebody didn't go over & talk to him. And said something to the effect of: Kenner's smarter than all of us put together, and there he is, all alone. . . . I can't recall if anyone went over to Kenner, but I did wind up having a wonderful conversation with Stafford. Don't know how smart he was, but he was sure interesting. And yes, Kenner was crazy smart (is he still alive, I wonder?). His talk made comparison between Ben Jonson and WB Yeats, as I recall, especially at the level of syntax. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Nice piece on Eberhart, Dickinson, and Graham, David. I find it easier to recognize ambition and fame than I do failure in poetry. Your remarks on Eberhart reminded me of a great adventure in poetry at an NCTE conference in Houston back some decades ago, standing around in a great room with some friends and acquaintances who'd come to hear the famous and ambitious read their works (some are still ambition, if less famous nowadays), when I felt a hand on my shoulder and turned to see Robert Graves approaching the group with a question: "Well, what's going on here?" He was the conferences keynote speaker that year. I don't recall that anyone in the group (Robert Creeley, Keith Wilson, Phil Garrison, and me, among others) had an answer for him. > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 15:37:07 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Kenner died in 2003. A friend of mine taught at the University of Georgia when Kenner was there as sort of a distinguished guest. This was when Maya Angelou had just read at Clinton's first inauguration (brownie points of you can name the poet who read at Clinton's second--no fair Googling it). Someone had put Angelou's poem up on the wall of the faculty lounge. Kenner came in one day while my friend was getting coffee and stood looking at Angelou's poem. Then he said "At times, it approaches mediocrity." -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank Lovely anecdote, Hal, and thanks. I was at a poetry conference once decades ago, and William Stafford was one featured poet. The keynote speaker was Hugh Kenner. At breakfast one day Stafford ambled up to a bunch of us young ones and pointed out Kenner, who was eating alone. He said that it would be a real waste if somebody didn't go over & talk to him. And said something to the effect of: Kenner's smarter than all of us put together, and there he is, all alone. . . . I can't recall if anyone went over to Kenner, but I did wind up having a wonderful conversation with Stafford. Don't know how smart he was, but he was sure interesting. And yes, Kenner was crazy smart (is he still alive, I wonder?). His talk made comparison between Ben Jonson and WB Yeats, as I recall, especially at the level of syntax. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Nice piece on Eberhart, Dickinson, and Graham, David. I find it easier to recognize ambition and fame than I do failure in poetry. Your remarks on Eberhart reminded me of a great adventure in poetry at an NCTE conference in Houston back some decades ago, standing around in a great room with some friends and acquaintances who'd come to hear the famous and ambitious read their works (some are still ambition, if less famous nowadays), when I felt a hand on my shoulder and turned to see Robert Graves approaching the group with a question: "Well, what's going on here?" He was the conferences keynote speaker that year. I don't recall that anyone in the group (Robert Creeley, Keith Wilson, Phil Garrison, and me, among others) had an answer for him. Serving the tri-state area. Hal On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html ======================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 7 15:39:11 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:39:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Clinton's 2nd inaugural poet was Lucinda Williams's dad Miller. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 2:37 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Kenner died in 2003. A friend of mine taught at the University of Georgia when Kenner was there as sort of a distinguished guest. This was when Maya Angelou had just read at Clinton's first inauguration (brownie points of you can name the poet who read at Clinton's second--no fair Googling it). Someone had put Angelou's poem up on the wall of the faculty lounge. Kenner came in one day while my friend was getting coffee and stood looking at Angelou's poem. Then he said "At times, it approaches mediocrity." > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:33 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank > > Lovely anecdote, Hal, and thanks. > > I was at a poetry conference once decades ago, and William Stafford was one featured poet. The keynote speaker was Hugh Kenner. At breakfast one day Stafford ambled up to a bunch of us young ones and pointed out Kenner, who was eating alone. He said that it would be a real waste if somebody didn't go over & talk to him. And said something to the effect of: Kenner's smarter than all of us put together, and there he is, all alone. . . . > > I can't recall if anyone went over to Kenner, but I did wind up having a wonderful conversation with Stafford. Don't know how smart he was, but he was sure interesting. > > And yes, Kenner was crazy smart (is he still alive, I wonder?). His talk made comparison between Ben Jonson and WB Yeats, as I recall, especially at the level of syntax. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Nice piece on Eberhart, Dickinson, and Graham, David. I find it easier to recognize ambition and fame than I do failure in poetry. Your remarks on Eberhart reminded me of a great adventure in poetry at an NCTE conference in Houston back some decades ago, standing around in a great room with some friends and acquaintances who'd come to hear the famous and ambitious read their works (some are still ambition, if less famous nowadays), when I felt a hand on my shoulder and turned to see Robert Graves approaching the group with a question: "Well, what's going on here?" He was the conferences keynote speaker that year. I don't recall that anyone in the group (Robert Creeley, Keith Wilson, Phil Garrison, and me, among others) had an answer for him. >> >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: >> Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. >> >> It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. >> >> http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html >> >> ======================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 7 15:39:58 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:39:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C101070-8A6F-4D2E-ABBF-FC853AE3C61D@ripon.edu> Well, yes. . . . Hope you didn't understand me as intending anything different. About the only thing I'm certain of is that almost every poet now considered "major" will be utterly forgotten in 100 years, except for the arcane research of some few specialists in the period. A handful will likely still be read. We just don't know which poets those will be, of course of course. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Paul Howell wrote: > Read with interest. I had, so to speak, lost interest in Eberhardt already. However, being right or wrong about the future is easy, especially being wrong. We'll see later who was who. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham wrote: > Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. > > It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. > > http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 7 15:35:31 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:35:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0999D3A5-ED17-4054-92A4-DFCF76574F02@ripon.edu> Good one, Al. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:00 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > A poem of mine online at Steel Toe Review. Beware, ye non-Wilshberians! > > > http://steeltoereview.com/2011/08/05/district-court-as-community-theater-by-al-maginnes/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sun Aug 7 15:43:40 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 14:43:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3EEAEC.8030904@louisiana.edu> Great story (and the second Clinton inauguration: was it Miller Williams?) about Kenner. He came to Buffalo in the late seventies or 1980 for a visit, and (while I barely knew who he was and didn't see him) I heard from Al Cook later that he was most interested in the youngest poets around, and the most (from most people's vantage) eccentric. Jerry On 8/7/2011 2:37 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Kenner died in 2003. A friend of mine taught at the University of > Georgia when Kenner was there as sort of a distinguished guest. This > was when Maya Angelou had just read at Clinton's first inauguration > (brownie points of you can name the poet who read at Clinton's > second--no fair Googling it). Someone had put Angelou's poem up on > the wall of the faculty lounge. Kenner came in one day while my friend > was getting coffee and stood looking at Angelou's poem. Then he said > "At times, it approaches mediocrity." > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:33 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank > > Lovely anecdote, Hal, and thanks. > > I was at a poetry conference once decades ago, and William Stafford > was one featured poet. The keynote speaker was Hugh Kenner. At > breakfast one day Stafford ambled up to a bunch of us young ones and > pointed out Kenner, who was eating alone. He said that it would be a > real waste if somebody didn't go over & talk to him. And said > something to the effect of: Kenner's smarter than all of us put > together, and there he is, all alone. . . . > > I can't recall if anyone went over to Kenner, but I did wind up having > a wonderful conversation with Stafford. Don't know how smart he was, > but he was sure interesting. > > And yes, Kenner was crazy smart (is he still alive, I wonder?). His > talk made comparison between Ben Jonson and WB Yeats, as I recall, > especially at the level of syntax. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Nice piece on Eberhart, Dickinson, and Graham, David. I find it >> easier to recognize ambition and fame than I do failure in poetry. >> Your remarks on Eberhart reminded me of a great adventure in poetry >> at an NCTE conference in Houston back some decades ago, standing >> around in a great room with some friends and acquaintances who'd come >> to hear the famous and ambitious read their works (some are still >> ambition, if less famous nowadays), when I felt a hand on my shoulder >> and turned to see Robert Graves approaching the group with a >> question: "Well, what's going on here?" He was the conferences >> keynote speaker that year. I don't recall that anyone in the group >> (Robert Creeley, Keith Wilson, Phil Garrison, and me, among others) >> had an answer for him. >> >> Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, David Graham > > wrote: >> >> Another toot while I'm at it. A new essay of mine is up in >> the most recent Verse Wisconsin issue, both online & in print. >> >> It's called "My Barefoot Rank" and is about ambition, fame, & >> failure. The title is of course from Dickinson. >> >> http://www.versewisconsin.org/Issue106/prose106/graham.html >> >> ======================================== >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 15:43:37 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:43:37 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank In-Reply-To: References: <8CE235086A91EFF-1A4C-17CDD@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <133915264-1312746217-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-836721338-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Yep. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:39:11 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My Barefoot Rank _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 15:57:00 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:57:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Kenner and Charles O. Hartman wrote a book called *Sentences* (I think) together. You can buy it online for $0.94, last I saw. How eccentric is that? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:17 PM, wrote: > Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Michelle Malkin over Gertrude > Stein. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry > Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:12 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 > From: halvard at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Apart from all that, got anything against her? > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems > , Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon < > elemenope_productions at hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her > professors at Johns Hopkins. > > She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, > and TALKED, in CIRCLES. > > (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, > gnats whirled over swamps.) > > Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: > "That's not writing, that's typing." > > Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! > > Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He > wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, > > An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, > > At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White > House, > > Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in > the Rose Garden, we need > > To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his > poetry, some of > > The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow > Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. > > Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as > vividly as Jackson Pollock. > > Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, > astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. > > And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his > Jeremiads against crap money. > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... > > He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, > but if you were not, not. > > ?Gertrude Stein, *The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas* (Harcourt Brace, > NY, 1933. p. 246) > BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... > The Steins Collect > http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 > at SFMOMA > and Contemporary Jewish Museum... > http://www.thecjm.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Dillon > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, > or wants to. > > Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," > doesn't know how to read Pound. > > "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You > can't go around them." > > And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail > for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > > > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > > and charges for the poet. > > > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the > 1913 > > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should > be lard free." > > > > > > Be well > > > > David Baratier, Editor > > > > Pavement Saw Press > > 321 Empire Street > > Montpelier OH 43543 > > http://pavementsaw.org > > > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > Facebook Page > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has > provoked a > > > thought about > > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > > to me that not enough > > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > > from Pound's time > > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > > news that stays > > > > news." > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 7 17:04:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:04:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: < E98B67AE-12F2-4DDA-BB98-8280D7098B79@ripon.edu> <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3EFDD1.9090707@nut-n-but.net> Well, Al, for a, uh, Wilshberian poem, it's not terribly bad. The $900 or 90 days came at precisely the right moment. I'll allow you to write eight more like it but then you have to make a linear algebra poem. --Bob From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 7 16:00:12 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 20:00:12 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <15099160.1312744966190.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <15099160.1312744966190.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics - or - Naropa Neither of whom would ever found a Ministry of Writing for the advancement of Marxian tautology. Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:22:45 -0400 From: junction at earthlink.net To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Richard: How would you prefer people to react to canned iconoclasm? Stein had a pretty good eye for art, and for artists, and writers flocked to her salon. She's also a pretty good writer. And had a nice time with composers, too. Five Saints aint bad. But one can disagree with all that without rewriting literary history. In any case, she's dead, and the stakes are pretty small. What's JKSDP? I'm feeling acronymically challenged today. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sent: Aug 7, 2011 3:12 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Apart from all that, got anything against her? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and TALKED, in CIRCLES. (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in the Rose Garden, we need To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 7 17:13:05 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:13:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: References: < E98B67AE-12F2-4DDA-BB98-8280D7098B79@ripon.edu><8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E3EFFE1.6080604@nut-n-but.net> Nice job, Carol, but it bangs against my fierce prejudice against calling prose poetry. Frankly, I think it'd be better as a poem--i.e., lineated. But I'm certainly in a minority on this. Aside from what one calls it, you do bring off a dynamic combination of occurences for us to experience your complex persona out of. --Bob From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 16:08:28 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <0999D3A5-ED17-4054-92A4-DFCF76574F02@ripon.edu> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <0999D3A5-ED17-4054-92A4-DFCF76574F02@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE2354E7C6AF1A-1A4C-1831B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Thanks, David. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor Good one, Al. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:00 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: A poem of mine online at Steel Toe Review. Beware, ye non-Wilshberians! http://steeltoereview.com/2011/08/05/district-court-as-community-theater-by-al-maginnes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 16:14:25 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:14:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <4E3EFFE1.6080604@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <4E3EFFE1.6080604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: None dare call Al Carol. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Nice job, Carol, but it bangs against my fierce prejudice against calling > prose poetry. Frankly, I think it'd be better as a poem--i.e., lineated. > But I'm certainly in a minority on this. Aside from what one calls it, you > do bring off a dynamic combination of occurences for us to experience your > complex persona out of. > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 17:03:10 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:03:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot in A Minor In-Reply-To: <4E3EFFE1.6080604@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE233AB5839B4F-1A4C-15F0E@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <4E3EFFE1.6080604@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thanks Bob! On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Nice job, Carol, but it bangs against my fierce prejudice against calling > prose poetry. Frankly, I think it'd be better as a poem--i.e., lineated. > But I'm certainly in a minority on this. Aside from what one calls it, you > do bring off a dynamic combination of occurences for us to experience your > complex persona out of. > > > --Bob > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Aug 7 17:37:33 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:37:33 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Kenner's _The Counterfeiters_ is, for my money, one of the best books of "criticism" (because it is so much more than that) of all time... c From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 7 18:16:02 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 22:16:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Gertrude Stein over Michelle Malkin. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu From: almaginnes at aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 15:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Michelle Malkin over Gertrude Stein. -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound A canned sneer, then, you're on to the next one. Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:44:41 -0400 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Apart from all that, got anything against her? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time. Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and TALKED, in CIRCLES. (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) Stein's stupid quip was not any less invidious than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." Gertrude and Truman can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a man. He wouldn't salon cow tow to that autotautodidactical fraud, An enemy of Gurdjieff. I prefer Michelle Malkin and Baroness Thatcher, At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing barefoot and blue lipped in the Rose Garden, we need To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of The prophecy necessary, as Americans, to solve the perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. Whoever would say that this work is showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound. "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps! You can't go around them." And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice, Pound reads him; not the other way around, Dude. > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan. Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news." > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sun Aug 7 18:41:33 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:41:33 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:16 PM, R Dillon wrote: > Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Gertrude Stein over Michelle > Malkin. I'm trying really hard to figure out how to compare Stein, who at least wasn't a complete dullard (significantly more than that, I think, but whatever), with Malkin, who is practically sub-human and should be institutionalized. c From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 7 19:14:46 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:14:46 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , Message-ID: Obviously, you're trying hard, really hard, but, maybe, you'll figure it out, once you actually readand digest public policy writing rooted in research and genius, versus, again Marxian tautologiesstrung together in the narcississtical "mind" of, as Corso pointed out, "A great big bag of hairy water." > From: chris at chrislott.org > Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:41:33 -0800 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 2:16 PM, R Dillon > wrote: > > Hard to take anyone seriously who favors Gertrude Stein over Michelle > > Malkin. > > I'm trying really hard to figure out how to compare Stein, who at > least wasn't a complete dullard (significantly more than that, I > think, but whatever), with Malkin, who is practically sub-human and > should be institutionalized. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 7 21:55:01 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:55:01 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , Message-ID: <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Whatever, dude. Play your little wannabe intellectual games with someone else. Maybe Michelle is up for a round of neo-Randian slap and tickle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:14:46 To: Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Aug 8 00:30:04 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 04:30:04 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: I wouldn't call it, "slap and tickle," but I'll say this: I relish the day that Michelle Malkin debates Anne Waldman on CSpan. That day is here, it's called, "Thomas Jefferson and The Tea Party," versus "ZeroKing and the Czars". > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:55:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Whatever, dude. Play your little wannabe intellectual games with someone else. Maybe Michelle is up for a round of neo-Randian slap and tickle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Mon Aug 8 16:30:05 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:30:05 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Thanks! You, ironically, without doubt, provided the very writer, Ayn Rand, who is one of the antidotes to Gertrude and her followers down throughthe generations to this very time. If there is one characteristic that unites Gertrude of a century ago to people like Leslie Scalapino (a very pleasant person with whom I hadseveral discussions during Gulf War I where she took the side of the Iraqis, signaling this loyalty by means of a custom made sequined lapel pin, "Iraqi,"), if, otherwise,an absolutely narcissistic figure, thinking and living on a perpetual mobius strip. I don't know why you would characterize your adroit introduction of one of the very writers I should have been citing all alongas "pseudo intellectual" puzzles me. I guess you have to operate "under the radar" (ZeroKing on his misuse of Executive Orders to achieve unConstitutionalsocietal and cultural change in USA) in order to survive "over there" on the "other side". Gotta get back to a Frank Gaffney interview broadcast out of Radio Free America in D.C. Anyway, whatever. Thanks! RD > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vtedu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:55:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Whatever, dude. Play your little wannabe intellectual games with someone else. Maybe Michelle is up for a round of neo-Randian slap and tickle. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 16:48:40 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 16:48:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Wow. Just wow. --Jeff Newberry On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:30 PM, R Dillon wrote: > Thanks! > > You, ironically, without doubt, provided the very writer, Ayn Rand, who is > one of the antidotes to Gertrude and her followers down through > the generations to this very time. > > If there is one characteristic that unites Gertrude of a century ago to > people like Leslie Scalapino (a very pleasant person with whom I had > several discussions during Gulf War I where she took the side of the > Iraqis, signaling this loyalty by means of a custom made sequined lapel pin, > "Iraqi,"), if, otherwise, > an absolutely narcissistic figure, thinking and living on a perpetual > mobius strip. > > I don't know why you would characterize your adroit introduction of one of > the very writers I should have been citing all along > as "pseudo intellectual" puzzles me. I guess you have to operate "under > the radar" (ZeroKing on his misuse of Executive Orders to achieve > unConstitutional > societal and cultural change in USA) in order to survive "over there" on > the "other side". > > Gotta get back to a Frank Gaffney interview broadcast out of Radio Free > America in D.C. > > Anyway, whatever. Thanks! > > RD > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vtedu > > > From: almaginnes at aol.com > > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:55:01 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > Whatever, dude. Play your little wannabe intellectual games with someone > else. Maybe Michelle is up for a round of neo-Randian slap and tickle. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 8 18:37:22 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest in her not being political. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 17:34:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1312839266.15249.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I hope Rsgw keeps on writing. If necessary, it's always a good idea to combine writing with as many vices as possible. If Rsgw can't find the proper or most inspirational vice, I can always recommend a few. --- On Fri, 8/5/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 4:28 PM As they do "avant-garde." ?? ? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems,?Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets;?Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:01 PM, stephen russell wrote: In Thomas Kuhn's sense, a paradigm shift is a radical change of world-view. People tend to overuse the phrase. From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Novelty and quality do not necessarily go hand in hand. Better is an improvement. Maybe by newness, Pound meant a paradigm shift. Freshness is simply doing something that isn't stale, or shop worn. Of the early Modernist of Pound's era, who would qualify for such a shift in writing ... lots of obvious choices. From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news Undoubtedly, he had many talents. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:22 AM, wrote: Old post... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-improved-tide.html ? -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 12:43 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Making it news that stays news On Aug 4, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better."____ Or "bake it fresh," perhaps. ?("what oft' was thought, but ne'er so well express'd"?) ? I've always thought that one challenge with the concept of making it new is that, in terms of anything deeply important and lasting in the realm of theme, Ecclesiastes had it about right: ?nothing new under the sun. ?So the pure novelty-seekers are reduced (and it is a reduction) to focusing mostly on technical issues. ?Which brings us back to what I wrote about the dark side of the moon. ?Interesting to explore, surely, but only half of the available territory. How "newness" might differ from "freshness" isn't something I have a good handle on yet; it's probably one reason I keep writing. ?But I'm convinced that there is a distinction worth making here. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 17:46:01 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:46:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I loved Bruce Andrews on O'Reilly... this comparison is sort of apple vs. golf ball, no? and what about Christian Science. On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was a > right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest in her > not being political. > > --Bob > > ______________________________**_________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 17:40:11 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1312839611.47424.YahooMailClassic@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> If Richard (haven't been able to follow the discussion) has evidence that Stein was anything other than right wing, he's uncovered something truely NEW. He should guard this material with his life. It's worth ... in the tens of thousands ... --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 6:37 PM Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was a right-winger, politically.? Only because I heard she was, my interest in her not being political. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 17:54:19 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1312840459.11754.YahooMailClassic@web161918.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, ? Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing?barefoot and blue lipped?in the Rose Garden" ********************************************************************************* If the above were only true about O'bama, it would almost restore some hope. As it stands, I stand with the hopeless ... --- On Sat, 8/6/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, August 6, 2011, 8:44 AM Apart from all that, got anything against her? ?? ? Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems,?Mainly Black,?Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets;?Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;?Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;?G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:52 PM, R Dillon wrote: Gertrude Stein was one of the biggest fools of all time.? Ask her professors at Johns Hopkins. ? She couldn't explain anything, that's why she talked, and talked, and?TALKED,?in CIRCLES. ? (Yet another factor in the miasma of St. Marks/JKSDP where, as Duncan saw, gnats whirled over swamps.) ? Stein's stupid quip was not?any less invidious?than Capote's on Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing." ? Gertrude and Truman?can be funny, but they are so jejeune, and, JEALOUS! ? Like Hemingway, his peer, or John Wayne, Pound was a?man.???He wouldn't?salon cow tow to that?autotautodidactical fraud, ? An enemy of Gurdjieff.?? I prefer?Michelle Malkin and?Baroness Thatcher, ? At this hour when a sociopath from an Ian Fleming novel sits in the White House, ? Burning greenbacks in his bong pipe, dancing?barefoot and blue lipped?in the Rose Garden, we need ? To relearn what Pound went to considerable trouble to immortalize in his poetry, some of ? The?prophecy necessary, as Americans, to?solve the?perfidy of Woodrow Wilson, re: Jefferson and/or Mussolini. ? Pound was a very imperfect person, but he hurled himself onto the page, as vividly as Jackson Pollock. ? Unlike Charles Bernstein, Pound understood, and practiced, as did Chaucer, astrology; thus, I, contra LangPo. ? And for all his caviling against the Jews, he wrote like one, in his Jeremiads against crap money. To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:50:39 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Of course there were mountains he could not move, pace... ? He [Ezra Pound] was a village explainer, excellent if you were a village, but if you were not, not. ?Gertrude Stein, The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Harcourt Brace, NY, 1933. p. 246) BTW...if near San Francisco, two good exhibits... The Steins Collect http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/410 at SFMOMA and Contemporary Jewish Museum... http://www.thecjm.org/ ? -----Original Message----- From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound There's far more to?Pound, far more, than the Professor can acknowledge, or wants to. ? Whoever would say that?this work is?showing signs of wear, is "fading," doesn't know how to read Pound.? "Fools!" Bunting (Gordon Cairnie's great friend), "There are the Alps!? You can't go around them." ? And doesn't realize that, even at this hour, a century since he set sail for Venice,?Pound reads him; not the other way around,?Dude. ? > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 16:21:55 -0700 > From: editor at pavementsaw.org > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > >>>>I sure wish Pound had said, "Make it better." > > He did. Cf the ABC's of Reading, it is one of the categories > and charges for the poet. > > If only more poets, esp Olson, had followed his original dictum in the 1913 > Poetry issue, "Poetry should be pure, it should be economical, it should be lard free." > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > Facebook Page > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts > > > On 8/4/2011 9:19 AM, David Graham wrote: > > > Not much point in commenting on Bob's laughably > > reductive translation of my opinions, but Hinton's anthology has provoked a > > thought about > > > Pound's much-quoted "make it new" slogan.? Seems > > to me that not enough > > > attention has been paid by legions of "innovators" > > from Pound's time > > > to the present to his related slogan, "literature is > > news that stays > > > news."? > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 18:26:53 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 15:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <1312842413.67180.YahooMailNeo@web160110.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This guy doesn't even deserve our flaming. I say we let him rant and ruthlessly delete his messages. I'm sending this guy to the spam-bin -- permanently! Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ ? les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: R Dillon To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Thanks! ? You, ironically,?without doubt, provided?the very writer, Ayn Rand, who is one of?the antidotes to Gertrude and her followers down through the generations to this very time. ? If there is one characteristic that unites Gertrude of a century ago to people like Leslie Scalapino (a very pleasant person with whom I had several discussions during Gulf War I where she took the side of the Iraqis, signaling this?loyalty by means of a custom made?sequined lapel pin, "Iraqi,"),?if, otherwise, an absolutely narcissistic figure, thinking and living on a perpetual mobius strip.? ? I don't know why you would?characterize your adroit introduction of?one of the very writers I should have been citing all along as "pseudo intellectual" puzzles me.? I guess you have to operate?"under the radar" (ZeroKing on his misuse of Executive Orders to achieve unConstitutional societal and cultural change in USA) in order to survive "over there" on the "other side". ? Gotta get back to a Frank Gaffney interview broadcast out of Radio Free America?in D.C. ? Anyway, whatever.? Thanks! ? RD ? > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vtedu > From: almaginnes at aol.com > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:55:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Whatever, dude. Play your little wannabe intellectual games with someone else. Maybe Michelle is up for a round of neo-Randian slap and tickle. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 19:02:54 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 19:02:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toxic Assets Sonnet Message-ID: *Toxic Assets Sonnet* Pedro found his reservoir of goodwill for his fellow humanoids contaminated?or tainted, if you will? by perennial and hereditary diseases. Exalted beings all, they chewed their nails in anticipation of defaults and market plunges, holding onto their faith that what goes down must go up. Nervousness and its neighbor, panic, often had cookouts in their unforeclosed back yards. When the going gets tough, the tough broil burgers. At any other time, the heady air of despair would have provided a tonic. But now, today, Main St. knows even smart Canadians cannot ride to the rescue. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 8 22:09:34 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:09:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <1312842413.67180.YahooMailNeo@web160110.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> <1312842413.67180.YahooMailNeo@web160110.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4096DE.8020506@nut-n-but.net> On 8/8/2011 5:26 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > This guy doesn't even deserve our flaming. I say we let him rant and > ruthlessly delete his messages. I'm sending this guy to the spam-bin > -- permanently! > Amicalement, > Alex > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ Aw, come on, Alex. Opinions you don't agree with are not necessarily spam. And he's useful--if not for him, I wouldn't know that Michelle Malkin is a haiku by Hal. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 9 19:57:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 19:57:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetics of Avicenna Message-ID: <8CE250746571BD8-BC4-1824F@webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20110805&page=26 A poem can be called a poem even if it does not have powerful content. But it must then combine imitation and well-made form in it, for these two elements of poetry fulfill or achieve the purpose of poetry, which is to provide pleasure in the portrayed forms for evoking their original through imitation. Avicenna avers that the poem is even capable of giving delight only through form. With the help of ingredients like cadence, rhythm and harmonic combination, a poem gives pleasure to its listeners. To Avicenna the poem is like a body that can give pleasure even when it has no soul. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 9 21:19:46 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 20:19:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate Message-ID: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Just heard this news from an old colleague of mine, Steve Yarbrough. Haven't seen any press on it yet. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 21:21:48 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:21:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I saw that, too. I wonder if this is merely a rumor? I've been looking online, and I can't seem to find an announcement anywhere. Best, Jeff Newberry On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:19 PM, David Graham wrote: > Just heard this news from an old colleague of mine, Steve Yarbrough. > Haven't seen any press on it yet. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Aug 9 21:29:40 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:29:40 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> References: , ,,<1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>,,, , ,,<8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, ,,, , , , , , , ,,<8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, ,,, , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry>, , <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, Thje Making of Americans. America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words, upon hearing them. She was a civilized person. And, it's true, she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, in Wisconsin and London. In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin discovered), Pound might have found an ally in Steinregarding the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has sold America down the river. It's a shamethat, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. des go?ts et des couleurs I still prefer Michelle Malkin. RD > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > in her not being political. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 21:38:32 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 18:38:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Economy, Afghanistan, riots in England etc. take precedence. - Jim On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I saw that, too. I wonder if this is merely a rumor? I've been looking > online, and I can't seem to find an announcement anywhere. > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:19 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Just heard this news from an old colleague of mine, Steve Yarbrough. >> Haven't seen any press on it yet. >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 21:47:48 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:47:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I'm glad to hear it. On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:19 PM, David Graham wrote: > Just heard this news from an old colleague of mine, Steve Yarbrough. > Haven't seen any press on it yet. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 21:48:12 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:48:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: He is reading at Bread Loaf next Thursday! On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:38 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Economy, Afghanistan, riots in England etc. take precedence. > - Jim > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Jeff Newberry > wrote: >> >> I saw that, too.? I wonder if this is merely a rumor?? I've been looking >> online, and I can't seem to find an announcement anywhere. >> >> Best, >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:19 PM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>> Just heard this news from an old colleague of mine, Steve Yarbrough. >>> ?Haven't seen any press on it yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and >> that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and >> experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar >> needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > > Sol Literary Magazine:?http://solliterarymagazine.com/ > > The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 ?802-989-4314 From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 22:24:14 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:24:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Story just hit the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 22:25:28 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:25:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 --Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Aug 9 23:28:12 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 19:28:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 I'm OK with this. I can hear Bob warming up his pitching arm... c From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 00:10:57 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:10:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am very happy, congratulations Mr. Levine! On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Jeff Newberry > wrote: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 > > I'm OK with this. I can hear Bob warming up his pitching arm... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 07:15:40 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:15:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> On 8/9/2011 8:38 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Economy, Afghanistan, riots in England etc. take precedence. > > - Jim Only because the identity of the American poet laureate has nothing to do with poetry. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 07:20:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:20:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E426990.7090609@nut-n-but.net> On 8/9/2011 10:28 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 > I'm OK with this. I can hear Bob warming up his pitching arm... > > c > ___ Just a yawn, Chris. But why should I get jumped on if I were to say my negative usual after several or more get to say their positive usual? --Bob From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Aug 10 08:12:17 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:12:17 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: I'm with Anny! Congratulations to Mr. Levine! Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:10:57 +0200 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate I am very happy, congratulations Mr. Levine! On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 I'm OK with this. I can hear Bob warming up his pitching arm... c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Wed Aug 10 09:22:27 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:22:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry>, , , , <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net>, Message-ID: But, "A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" looks Marxian to me No? Just like nature, you say? Core curriculum at JKSDP and that place ain't Wharton. From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:29:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, Thje Making of Americans. America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words, upon hearing them. She was a civilized person. And, it's true, she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, in Wisconsin and London. In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin discovered), Pound might have found an ally in Stein regarding the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has sold America down the river. It's a shame that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. des go?ts et des couleurs I still prefer Michelle Malkin. RD > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > in her not being political. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 09:47:30 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:47:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound Message-ID: <27404363.1312984051407.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 10 10:52:54 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:52:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no words are noticed.'" (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the Library of Congress site: (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): 1937-1941*Joseph Auslander* 1943-1944*Allen Tate* 1944-1945*Robert Penn Warren* 1945-1946*Louise Bogan* 1946-1947*Karl Shapiro* 1947-1948*Robert Lowell* 1948-1949*Leonie Adams* 1949-1950*Elizabeth Bishop* 1950-1952*Conrad Aiken* 1952*William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn't serve)* 1956-1958*Randall Jarrell* 1958-1959*Robert Frost* 1959-1961*Richard Eberhart* 1961-1963*Louis Untermeyer* 1963-1964*Howard Nemerov* 1964-1965*Reed Whittemore* 1965-1966*Stephen Spender* 1966-1968*James Dickey* 1968-1970*William Jay Smith* 1970-1971*William Stafford* 1971-1973*Josephine Jacobsen* 1973-1974*Daniel Hoffman* 1974-1976*Stanley Kunitz* 1976-1978*Robert Hayden* 1978-1980*William Meredith* 1981-1982*Maxine Kumin* 1982-1984*Anthony Hecht* 1984-1985*Robert Fitzgerald* 1984-1985*Reed Whittemore* 1985-1986*Gwendolyn Brooks* 1986-1987*Robert Penn Warren* 1987-1988*Richard Wilbur* 1988-1990*Howard Nemerov* 1990-1991*Mark Strand* 1991-1992*Joseph Brodsky* 1992-1993*Mona Van Duyn* 1993-1995*Rita Dove* 1995-1997*Robert Hass* 1997-2000*Robert Pinsky* 1999-2000*Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin* 2000-2001Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003Billy Collins 2003-2004Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006Ted Kooser 2006-2007Donald Hall 2007-2008Charles Simic 2008-2010Kay Ryan 2010-2011W.S. Merwin 2011-PresentPhilip Levine yrs, 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 12:53:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I forget the critic who divided writers/poets and playwrights into two catagories: paleface, & I think, redskin (this was before the cultural wars). The redskin writers were direct, unpretentious, and perhaps, like Levine, from the working class. The paleskin writers were often from the acadamy, and were supposed to emulate Wallace Stevens. Wait, the critic, I believe, was Alfred Kazin -- Levine's a good choice. Mostly (and this may be considered slander to some) because of his subjet matter. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 10:52 AM I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the Library of Congress site: ?(http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): 1937-1941??????????? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944??????????? Allen Tate 1944-1945??????????? Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946??????????? Louise Bogan 1946-1947??????????? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948??????????? Robert Lowell 1948-1949????????? Leonie Adams 1949-1950??????????? Elizabeth Bishop 1950-1952??????????? Conrad Aiken 1952??? William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve) 1956-1958??????????? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959??????????? Robert Frost 1959-1961??????????? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963??????????? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964??????????? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965??????????? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966??????????? Stephen Spender 1966-1968??????????? James Dickey 1968-1970??????????? William Jay Smith 1970-1971??????????? William Stafford 1971-1973??????????? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974??????????? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976??????????? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978??????????? Robert Hayden 1978-1980??????????? William Meredith 1981-1982??????????? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984??????????? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985??????????? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985??????????? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986??????????? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987??????????? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988??????????? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990??????????? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991??????????? Mark Strand 1991-1992??????????? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993??????????? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995??????????? Rita Dove 1995-1997??????????? Robert Hass 1997-2000??????????? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000??????????? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001??????????? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003??????????? Billy Collins 2003-2004??????????? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006??????????? Ted Kooser 2006-2007??????????? Donald Hall 2007-2008??????????? Charles Simic 2008-2010??????????? Kay Ryan 2010-2011??????????? W.S. Merwin 2011-Present??????????? Philip Levine yrs, 20??-20?????????? Jerry McGuire _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:19:23 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:19:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I love it when someone is with me! Thank You Sheila, :-) On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:12 PM, sheila black wrote: > I'm with Anny! Congratulations to Mr. Levine! > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:10:57 +0200 > From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate > > > I am very happy, congratulations Mr. Levine! > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Jeff Newberry > wrote: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/books/philip-levine-is-to-be-us-poet-laureate.html?_r=2 > > I'm OK with this. I can hear Bob warming up his pitching arm... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:21:58 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:21:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Look at Jerry's signature! I have to say that there are so many poets I love on this list, I just realized now. This makes me just so sad, don't ask me why. On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that > they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably > wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times > article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his > unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no > words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in > "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, > here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of > descriptions on the Library of Congress site: > > (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): > > > 1937-1941 *Joseph Auslander* > > 1943-1944 *Allen Tate* > > 1944-1945 *Robert Penn Warren* > > 1945-1946 *Louise Bogan* > > 1946-1947 *Karl Shapiro* > > 1947-1948 *Robert Lowell* > > 1948-1949 *Leonie Adams* > > 1949-1950 *Elizabeth Bishop* > > 1950-1952 *Conrad Aiken* > > 1952 *William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve)* > > 1956-1958 *Randall Jarrell* > > 1958-1959 *Robert Frost* > > 1959-1961 *Richard Eberhart* > > 1961-1963 *Louis Untermeyer* > > 1963-1964 *Howard Nemerov* > > 1964-1965 *Reed Whittemore* > > 1965-1966 *Stephen Spender* > > 1966-1968 *James Dickey* > > 1968-1970 *William Jay Smith* > > 1970-1971 *William Stafford* > > 1971-1973 *Josephine Jacobsen* > > 1973-1974 *Daniel Hoffman* > > 1974-1976 *Stanley Kunitz* > > 1976-1978 *Robert Hayden* > > 1978-1980 *William Meredith* > > 1981-1982 *Maxine Kumin* > > 1982-1984 *Anthony Hecht* > > 1984-1985 *Robert Fitzgerald* > > 1984-1985 *Reed Whittemore* > > 1985-1986 *Gwendolyn Brooks* > > 1986-1987 *Robert Penn Warren* > > 1987-1988 *Richard Wilbur* > > 1988-1990 *Howard Nemerov* > > 1990-1991 *Mark Strand* > > 1991-1992 *Joseph Brodsky* > > 1992-1993 *Mona Van Duyn* > > 1993-1995 *Rita Dove* > > 1995-1997 *Robert Hass* > > 1997-2000 *Robert Pinsky* > > 1999-2000 *Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita > Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin* > > 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz > > 2001-2003 Billy Collins > > 2003-2004 Louise Gl?ck > > 2004-2006 Ted Kooser > > 2006-2007 Donald Hall > > 2007-2008 Charles Simic > > 2008-2010 Kay Ryan > > 2010-2011 W.S. Merwin > > 2011-Present Philip Levine > > yrs, > > 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:26:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:26:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: And yet, Anny, it's such a dreary list somehow. Maybe that what makes you sad. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Look at Jerry's signature! > > I have to say that there are so many poets I love on this list, I just > realized now. This makes me just so sad, don't ask me why. > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note >> that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most >> probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the >> NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his >> unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no >> words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in >> "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, >> here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of >> descriptions on the Library of Congress site: >> >> (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): >> >> >> 1937-1941 *Joseph Auslander* >> >> 1943-1944 *Allen Tate* >> >> 1944-1945 *Robert Penn Warren* >> >> 1945-1946 *Louise Bogan* >> >> 1946-1947 *Karl Shapiro* >> >> 1947-1948 *Robert Lowell* >> >> 1948-1949 *Leonie Adams* >> >> 1949-1950 *Elizabeth Bishop* >> >> 1950-1952 *Conrad Aiken* >> >> 1952 *William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve)* >> >> 1956-1958 *Randall Jarrell* >> >> 1958-1959 *Robert Frost* >> >> 1959-1961 *Richard Eberhart* >> >> 1961-1963 *Louis Untermeyer* >> >> 1963-1964 *Howard Nemerov* >> >> 1964-1965 *Reed Whittemore* >> >> 1965-1966 *Stephen Spender* >> >> 1966-1968 *James Dickey* >> >> 1968-1970 *William Jay Smith* >> >> 1970-1971 *William Stafford* >> >> 1971-1973 *Josephine Jacobsen* >> >> 1973-1974 *Daniel Hoffman* >> >> 1974-1976 *Stanley Kunitz* >> >> 1976-1978 *Robert Hayden* >> >> 1978-1980 *William Meredith* >> >> 1981-1982 *Maxine Kumin* >> >> 1982-1984 *Anthony Hecht* >> >> 1984-1985 *Robert Fitzgerald* >> >> 1984-1985 *Reed Whittemore* >> >> 1985-1986 *Gwendolyn Brooks* >> >> 1986-1987 *Robert Penn Warren* >> >> 1987-1988 *Richard Wilbur* >> >> 1988-1990 *Howard Nemerov* >> >> 1990-1991 *Mark Strand* >> >> 1991-1992 *Joseph Brodsky* >> >> 1992-1993 *Mona Van Duyn* >> >> 1993-1995 *Rita Dove* >> >> 1995-1997 *Robert Hass* >> >> 1997-2000 *Robert Pinsky* >> >> 1999-2000 *Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita >> Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin* >> >> 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz >> >> 2001-2003 Billy Collins >> >> 2003-2004 Louise Gl?ck >> >> 2004-2006 Ted Kooser >> >> 2006-2007 Donald Hall >> >> 2007-2008 Charles Simic >> >> 2008-2010 Kay Ryan >> >> 2010-2011 W.S. Merwin >> >> 2011-Present Philip Levine >> >> yrs, >> >> 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> -- >> Prof. Jerry McGuire >> Dept. of English >> University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 10 13:26:44 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:26:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> It was Philip Rahv, in 1939, who coined the "paleface vs. redskin" slogan: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/paleface-v-redskin/ Perhaps that's even more reductive than most such critical dichotomies, but in any case it's worth bearing in mind that in 1939 the terrain of American poetry was quite different than it is today. "Raw & cooked" was one phrase I remember being bandied about when I was starting out--with regard to the Confessionals. Or, to oversimplify,between early & late Robert Lowell. Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet he became. Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Levine to me is a really fine poet, one of my very favorite now for decades. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:53 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I forget the critic who divided writers/poets and playwrights into two catagories: paleface, & I think, redskin (this was before the cultural wars). The redskin writers were direct, unpretentious, and perhaps, like Levine, from the working class. The paleskin writers were often from the acadamy, and were supposed to emulate Wallace Stevens. > > Wait, the critic, I believe, was Alfred Kazin -- Levine's a good choice. Mostly (and this may be considered slander to some) because of his subjet matter. > > --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 10:52 AM > > I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the Library of Congress site: > > (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): > > > 1937-1941 Joseph Auslander > > 1943-1944 Allen Tate > > 1944-1945 Robert Penn Warren > > 1945-1946 Louise Bogan > > 1946-1947 Karl Shapiro > > 1947-1948 Robert Lowell > > 1948-1949 Leonie Adams > > 1949-1950 Elizabeth Bishop > > 1950-1952 Conrad Aiken > > 1952 William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve) > > 1956-1958 Randall Jarrell > > 1958-1959 Robert Frost > > 1959-1961 Richard Eberhart > > 1961-1963 Louis Untermeyer > > 1963-1964 Howard Nemerov > > 1964-1965 Reed Whittemore > > 1965-1966 Stephen Spender > > 1966-1968 James Dickey > > 1968-1970 William Jay Smith > > 1970-1971 William Stafford > > 1971-1973 Josephine Jacobsen > > 1973-1974 Daniel Hoffman > > 1974-1976 Stanley Kunitz > > 1976-1978 Robert Hayden > > 1978-1980 William Meredith > > 1981-1982 Maxine Kumin > > 1982-1984 Anthony Hecht > > 1984-1985 Robert Fitzgerald > > 1984-1985 Reed Whittemore > > 1985-1986 Gwendolyn Brooks > > 1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren > > 1987-1988 Richard Wilbur > > 1988-1990 Howard Nemerov > > 1990-1991 Mark Strand > > 1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky > > 1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn > > 1993-1995 Rita Dove > > 1995-1997 Robert Hass > > 1997-2000 Robert Pinsky > > 1999-2000 Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin > > 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz > > 2001-2003 Billy Collins > > 2003-2004 Louise Gl?ck > > 2004-2006 Ted Kooser > > 2006-2007 Donald Hall > > 2007-2008 Charles Simic > > 2008-2010 Kay Ryan > > 2010-2011 W.S. Merwin > > 2011-Present Philip Levine > > yrs, > > 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Aug 10 13:36:56 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:36:56 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> References: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:26 AM, David Graham wrote: > Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under > Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment > after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet > he became. Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back > in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 13:35:53 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <1312997753.4983.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I stand corrected ... Raw and cooked ... I like that. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 1:26 PM It was Philip Rahv, in 1939, who coined the "paleface vs. redskin" slogan: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/paleface-v-redskin/ Perhaps that's even more reductive than most such critical dichotomies, but in any case it's worth bearing in mind that in 1939 the terrain of American poetry was quite different than it is today. ? "Raw & cooked" was one phrase I remember being bandied about when I was starting out--with regard to the Confessionals. ?Or, to oversimplify,between early & late Robert Lowell. Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet he became. ?Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Levine to me is a really fine poet, one of my very favorite now for decades. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:53 AM, stephen russell wrote: I forget the critic who divided writers/poets and playwrights into two catagories: paleface, & I think, redskin (this was before the cultural wars). The redskin writers were direct, unpretentious, and perhaps, like Levine, from the working class. The paleskin writers were often from the acadamy, and were supposed to emulate Wallace Stevens. Wait, the critic, I believe, was Alfred Kazin -- Levine's a good choice. Mostly (and this may be considered slander to some) because of his subjet matter. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 10:52 AM I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the Library of Congress site: ?(http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): 1937-1941??????????? Joseph Auslander 1943-1944??????????? Allen Tate 1944-1945??????????? Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946??????????? Louise Bogan 1946-1947??????????? Karl Shapiro 1947-1948??????????? Robert Lowell 1948-1949????????? Leonie Adams 1949-1950??????????? Elizabeth Bishop 1950-1952??????????? Conrad Aiken 1952??? William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve) 1956-1958??????????? Randall Jarrell 1958-1959??????????? Robert Frost 1959-1961??????????? Richard Eberhart 1961-1963??????????? Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964??????????? Howard Nemerov 1964-1965??????????? Reed Whittemore 1965-1966??????????? Stephen Spender 1966-1968??????????? James Dickey 1968-1970??????????? William Jay Smith 1970-1971??????????? William Stafford 1971-1973??????????? Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974??????????? Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976??????????? Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978??????????? Robert Hayden 1978-1980??????????? William Meredith 1981-1982??????????? Maxine Kumin 1982-1984??????????? Anthony Hecht 1984-1985??????????? Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985??????????? Reed Whittemore 1985-1986??????????? Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987??????????? Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988??????????? Richard Wilbur 1988-1990??????????? Howard Nemerov 1990-1991??????????? Mark Strand 1991-1992??????????? Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993??????????? Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995??????????? Rita Dove 1995-1997??????????? Robert Hass 1997-2000??????????? Robert Pinsky 1999-2000??????????? Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001??????????? Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003??????????? Billy Collins 2003-2004??????????? Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006??????????? Ted Kooser 2006-2007??????????? Donald Hall 2007-2008??????????? Charles Simic 2008-2010??????????? Kay Ryan 2010-2011??????????? W.S. Merwin 2011-Present??????????? Philip Levine yrs, 20??-20?????????? Jerry McGuire _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 13:32:44 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1312997564.13613.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Frederick Seidel had to drop Pound as a friend because of his bigotry. Heidegger, in some ways, is more interesting. Hannah Arendt defended him to the end. Hannah was beautiful and Jewish, and Heidegger, her lover, was a Nazi who wrote Poetry Language and Thought. A play should be written. Something similiar to Copenhagen (about Neils Bohr and Heisenberg). --- On Tue, 8/9/11, R Dillon wrote: From: R Dillon Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:29 PM Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, ? Thje Making of Americans. ? America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. ? Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words,?upon hearing them.?? She was a civilized person. ? ? ? And, it's true,?she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, ?in Wisconsin and London. ? In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin discovered),?Pound might have found an ally in Stein regarding?the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has sold America down the river.? It's a shame that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. ? des go?ts et des couleurs ? I still prefer Michelle Malkin. ? ? ? ? RD ? ? > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > in her not being political. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 13:43:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1312998183.86156.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In some ways they're both confessional, but there, it seems, the similiarities end. Berryman lines are more nervous ... as in The Dream Songs ... that long sonnet sequence that features an alter ego, Mr. Bones. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 1:36 PM On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:26 AM, David Graham wrote: > Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under > Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment > after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet > he became. Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back > in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. c -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 13:50:16 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:50:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound Message-ID: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 14:16:20 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:16:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hard to imagine an actable play - dialog - Heidegger-Arendt, such difficult, phenomenal people. In preparing to write it - quite an assumption, eh? - look at Heidegger's brother's memoir and the Uwe Johnson-Arendt correspondence, if you haven't already. Write the play. It's quite an intriguing thought! On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:50 PM, wrote: > Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my late > friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, she made > great matzoh ball soup. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell ** > Sent: Aug 10, 2011 1:32 PM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Frederick Seidel had to drop Pound as a friend because of his bigotry. > Heidegger, in some ways, is more interesting. Hannah Arendt defended him to > the end. Hannah was beautiful and Jewish, and Heidegger, her lover, was a > Nazi who wrote Poetry Language and Thought. A play should be written. > Something similiar to Copenhagen (about Neils Bohr and Heisenberg). > > --- On *Tue, 8/9/11, R Dillon * wrote: > > > From: R Dillon > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:29 PM > > Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, > > Thje Making of Americans. > > America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the > alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. > > Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words, upon hearing them. > She was a civilized person. > > > > And, it's true, she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, in > Wisconsin and London. > > In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin > discovered), Pound might have found an ally in Stein > regarding the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has > sold America down the river. It's a shame > that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough > to arrive at a modus vivendi. > > des go?ts et des couleurs > > I still prefer Michelle Malkin. > > > > > RD > > > > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > > in her not being political. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 10 14:09:58 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:09:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu> <4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E42C976.9060302@louisiana.edu> The past is a dreary country, unless you've been very, very rich--or so I think, in a general and not very argumentative way. Poets writing at a given moment are bound to have gripes about the very few poets who, from whatever combination of skill, luck, connections, and bizness acumen, are dunked in the pool of public celebration. The most public gestures of all--poets laureate, gigantic awards--are very likely to go to poets one is likely to grind his/her teeth about. That said, and given the special conditions, it's only a moderately dreary list, I think. But it has its pleasures, too--especially those several folks thrown in (evidently) just to make you chuckle. Of course, poets you'd go to the barricades for are few and far between. For me, I guess I'd say that the principal quality of the list is its cultural irrelevance (so, I guess, I'm sorry for posting it): none of these characters was dragged up off the street, given a quick rehab, and treated to a decent wage for a year or two. They were mostly working in New York or teaching in the ivies, etc. And they were old and unlikely to do anything that would embarrass the kind of people who run these rackets. There are scandals of omission, for sure, and some few on the list are so boring that only a bureaucrat could recommend them--the point, I think, is that a poet laureate shouldn't be liable to do anything that might tend to alienate most Americans (and how many poets can that be said of?). But when you narrow down the pool (sorry for _that_ mixed metaphor) to old, respectable, successful, politically safe, responsible, user-friendly poets you may have known at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Vanderbilt, the ones they picked probably (mostly) aren't an outrage on their art. If one says, "I like this choice," one risks all sorts of accusations about going over to the enemy. But I'm glad Merwin got there, and Simic, and Hass, and Brooks, and Nemerov, and Bishop, and Frost. It may seem appalling that O'Hara, Creeley, Ashbery, Coolidge, and Mayer weren't given a shot (did anyone ever think to bring up Stevens's name?), but no doubt they'd have said something to make the Congressional Librarians blush. Jerry On 8/10/2011 12:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > And yet, Anny, it's such a dreary list somehow. Maybe that what makes > you sad. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > /Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems > , > Mainly Black > , > //Obras P?blicas > ; > //The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; > //Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; > //Tango Bouquet > ; > //Theory of Harmony > ; > //Rapsodie espagnole > ; > //Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; > //The Sonnet Project > ; > //G(e)nome ; > //Winter Journey ; > ////Eclipse ; ////The > Dance of the Red Swan ;/ > /Transparencies & Projections > / > > > > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Anny Ballardini > > wrote: > > Look at Jerry's signature! > > I have to say that there are so many poets I love on this list, I > just realized now. This makes me just so sad, don't ask me why. > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Jerry McGuire > > wrote: > > I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. > I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" > poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point > expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about > his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his > unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in > which 'no words are noticed.'" (I'd also say that if you don't > "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what > a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I > trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the > Library of Congress site: > > (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): > > > 1937-1941*Joseph Auslander* > > 1943-1944*Allen Tate* > > 1944-1945*Robert Penn Warren* > > 1945-1946*Louise Bogan* > > 1946-1947*Karl Shapiro* > > 1947-1948*Robert Lowell* > > 1948-1949*Leonie Adams* > > 1949-1950*Elizabeth Bishop* > > 1950-1952*Conrad Aiken* > > 1952*William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn't serve)* > > 1956-1958*Randall Jarrell* > > 1958-1959*Robert Frost* > > 1959-1961*Richard Eberhart* > > 1961-1963*Louis Untermeyer* > > 1963-1964*Howard Nemerov* > > 1964-1965*Reed Whittemore* > > 1965-1966*Stephen Spender* > > 1966-1968*James Dickey* > > 1968-1970*William Jay Smith* > > 1970-1971*William Stafford* > > 1971-1973*Josephine Jacobsen* > > 1973-1974*Daniel Hoffman* > > 1974-1976*Stanley Kunitz* > > 1976-1978*Robert Hayden* > > 1978-1980*William Meredith* > > 1981-1982*Maxine Kumin* > > 1982-1984*Anthony Hecht* > > 1984-1985*Robert Fitzgerald* > > 1984-1985*Reed Whittemore* > > 1985-1986*Gwendolyn Brooks* > > 1986-1987*Robert Penn Warren* > > 1987-1988*Richard Wilbur* > > 1988-1990*Howard Nemerov* > > 1990-1991*Mark Strand* > > 1991-1992*Joseph Brodsky* > > 1992-1993*Mona Van Duyn* > > 1993-1995*Rita Dove* > > 1995-1997*Robert Hass* > > 1997-2000*Robert Pinsky* > > 1999-2000*Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita > Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin* > > 2000-2001Stanley Kunitz > > 2001-2003Billy Collins > > 2003-2004Louise Gl?ck > > 2004-2006Ted Kooser > > 2006-2007Donald Hall > > 2007-2008Charles Simic > > 2008-2010Kay Ryan > > 2010-2011W.S. Merwin > > 2011-PresentPhilip Levine > > yrs, > > 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 14:17:47 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1313000267.73692.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Are there any good bios? I picked up a slim volume by a E Ettinger. It turned out dull and slim. I need something fatter. Or if not fat, juicy ... --- On Wed, 8/10/11, junction at earthlink.net wrote: From: junction at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 1:50 PM #yiv2069671088 {font-family:Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, she made great matzoh ball soup. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sent: Aug 10, 2011 1:32 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Frederick Seidel had to drop Pound as a friend because of his bigotry. Heidegger, in some ways, is more interesting. Hannah Arendt defended him to the end. Hannah was beautiful and Jewish, and Heidegger, her lover, was a Nazi who wrote Poetry Language and Thought. A play should be written. Something similiar to Copenhagen (about Neils Bohr and Heisenberg). --- On Tue, 8/9/11, R Dillon wrote: From: R Dillon Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:29 PM Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, ? Thje Making of Americans. ? America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. ? Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words,?upon hearing them.?? She was a civilized person. ? ? ? And, it's true,?she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, ?in Wisconsin and London. ? In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin discovered),?Pound might have found an ally in Stein regarding?the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has sold America down the river.? It's a shame that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. ? des go?ts et des couleurs ? I still prefer Michelle Malkin. ? ? ? ? RD ? ? > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > in her not being political. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 10 14:32:59 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:32:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E42CEDB.2020704@louisiana.edu> My teacher, Elisabeth Young-Bruehl, who wrote a loving intellectual biography of Arendt, liked to talk of her extraordinary generosity (with her students at the New School, of whom Elisabeth was one). Elisabeth always made the point that Arendt _forgave_ Heidegger, despite her own suffering--that again, it was a matter of personal generosity as well as professional respect for the more admirable dimensions of his thought. I can't imagine, myself, how difficult that must have been--but I certainly wouldn't write it off as some girlish foible. Arendt was an extraordinarily gifted and humane thinker, and she must have had plenty of experience of Heidegger's dark side. That's a lot to forgive. Jerry On 8/10/2011 12:50 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my > late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, > she made great matzoh ball soup. > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen russell > Sent: Aug 10, 2011 1:32 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Frederick Seidel had to drop Pound as a friend because of his > bigotry. Heidegger, in some ways, is more interesting. Hannah > Arendt defended him to the end. Hannah was beautiful and Jewish, > and Heidegger, her lover, was a Nazi who wrote Poetry Language and > Thought. A play should be written. Something similiar to > Copenhagen (about Neils Bohr and Heisenberg). > > --- On *Tue, 8/9/11, R Dillon > //* wrote: > > > From: R Dillon > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:29 PM > > Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, > > Thje Making of Americans. > > America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue > and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. > > Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words, upon > hearing them. She was a civilized person. > > > > And, it's true, she would be appalled by what is going on, > right now, in Wisconsin and London. > > In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his > chagrin discovered), Pound might have found an ally in Stein > regarding the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the > rest that has sold America down the river. It's a shame > that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, > alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. > > des go?ts et des couleurs > > I still prefer Michelle Malkin. > > > > > RD > > > > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought > Gertrude was > > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, > my interest > > in her not being political. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 14:22:58 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313000578.22996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Perfect. A Heidegger brother. He should know some things ... It's an intimidating idea ... Hannah/Heidegger ... (The Play)... 2 intellectual giants ... but love is, as the saying goes, blind, and the two might have their dopey moments (in private) ... and perhaps (on stage). --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Paul Howell wrote: From: Paul Howell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 2:16 PM Hard to imagine an actable play - dialog - Heidegger-Arendt, such difficult, phenomenal people. In preparing to write it - quite an assumption, eh? - look at Heidegger's brother's memoir and the Uwe Johnson-Arendt correspondence, if you haven't already. Write the play. It's quite an intriguing thought! On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:50 PM, wrote: Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, she made great matzoh ball soup. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sent: Aug 10, 2011 1:32 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound Frederick Seidel had to drop Pound as a friend because of his bigotry. Heidegger, in some ways, is more interesting. Hannah Arendt defended him to the end. Hannah was beautiful and Jewish, and Heidegger, her lover, was a Nazi who wrote Poetry Language and Thought. A play should be written. Something similiar to Copenhagen (about Neils Bohr and Heisenberg). --- On Tue, 8/9/11, R Dillon wrote: From: R Dillon Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 9:29 PM Take off of Turner's The Frontier in American History, Thje Making of Americans. America has been defined in part by the tension and dialogue and the alternating supremacy of those two types of writers. Actually, I just didn't lke the sound of her words, upon hearing them. She was a civilized person. And, it's true, she would be appalled by what is going on, right now, in Wisconsin and London. In fact, had Pound not been such a bigot (as Olson to his chagrin discovered), Pound might have found an ally in Stein regarding the problem of usury, of fiat currency, and all the rest that has sold America down the river. It's a shame that, being Americans, they weren't able to find that fact, alone, enough to arrive at a modus vivendi. des go?ts et des couleurs I still prefer Michelle Malkin. RD > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 17:37:22 -0500 > From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pound > > Just a moment to voice confusion, Richard--I always thought Gertrude was > a right-winger, politically. Only because I heard she was, my interest > in her not being political. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 16:10:49 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:10:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>, , , , , , , , <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>, , , , , , , , , , , , <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry>, , , , <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net>, Message-ID: <4E42E5C9.4000507@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 8:22 AM, R Dillon wrote: > But, > > "A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" > > looks Marxian to me > > No? No. It's implacably reactionary. A Marxian poet would have written: "rose is evidence of the tyranny of corporate capitalism." By the way, I'm pretty sure there's no "a" at the beginning of the line. I'm not sure how many times "is a rose" is repeated. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 16:21:51 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:21:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu>< CADkt4se+YKdPFLBwxiZEtuT9rZ2e4PzKRREzg4xt0-BP+jnhqw@mail.gmail.com><4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E42E85F.7050801@nut-n-but.net> Interestingly, the only Pulitzer-Winning Poet even slightly technically innovative, Williams, was technically innovative for what he didn't do in his poems, not what he did. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 16:27:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:27:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E42E9BF.60706@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 12:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I love it when someone is with me! Thank You Sheila, :-) But surely it's even better to have ME /against/ you! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 15:35:49 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:35:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound Message-ID: <22572203.1313004950271.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 10 16:08:50 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:08:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <197D9AE6-F520-4D57-8C3E-480928731E76@ripon.edu> "Hannah Arendt made great matzoh ball soup" --an unFounded poem.... Whitman had extremely pink skin and loved wearing starched white shirts. Langston Hughes, when he was alone, talked to his plants and swore like a sailor. If Edna Millay ever forgot to count the number of steps in a stairway, she had to descend and climb them again. Frost wrote his best sonnets while nude, yet could not pronounce the word "vagina." Ralph Waldo Emerson's pumpkin soup was to die for. James Merrill, unbenownst to all but his closest friends, was a real gear-head, and kept thirteen Harleys in a secret garage in Southampton. O'Hara was not really gay, he just liked to mess with your mind. The only time Ginsberg got stark raging mad was once in 1983 when a waiter served him cold tea. Emily Dickinson, surprisingly, often had filthy fingernails. Wallace Stevens's French accent was atrocious, the true reason he never went to Paris. William Carlos Williams never could remember the difference between "venereal" and "venerable." Because of his terrible writers' block, T. S. Eliot's sister wrote most of "The Four Quartets." Sandburg kept a collection of French porcelain dolls, donating them in his will to Ezra Pound. Hart Crane hated candy but liked baby talk. Though Marianne Moore, as everyone knows, kept a cat named Vercingetorix, at home she just called him "Kitty-ums." As it happens, she really hated baseball. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 12:50 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: > Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, she made great matzoh ball soup. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 10 16:10:24 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <4E42C976.9060302@louisiana.edu> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu><4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net> <4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> <4E42C976.9060302@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CE25B0ACA9B54B-20BC-371E6@webmail-m160.sysops.aol.com> O'Hara died far too young and unknown outside of any but his immediate circle I think. Certainly Creeley and Ashbery are as deserving as any. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:03 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate The past is a dreary country, unless you've been very, very rich--or so I think, in a general and not very argumentative way. Poets writing at a given moment are bound to have gripes about the very few poets who, from whatever combination of skill, luck, connections, and bizness acumen, are dunked in the pool of public celebration. The most public gestures of all--poets laureate, gigantic awards--are very likely to go to poets one is likely to grind his/her teeth about. That said, and given the special conditions, it's only a moderately dreary list, I think. But it has its pleasures, too--especially those several folks thrown in (evidently) just to make you chuckle. Of course, poets you'd go to the barricades for are few and far between. For me, I guess I'd say that the principal quality of the list is its cultural irrelevance (so, I guess, I'm sorry for posting it): none of these characters was dragged up off the street, given a quick rehab, and treated to a decent wage for a year or two. They were mostly working in New York or teaching in the ivies, etc. And they were old and unlikely to do anything that would embarrass the kind of people who run these rackets. There are scandals of omission, for sure, and some few on the list are so boring that only a bureaucrat could recommend them--the point, I think, is that a poet laureate shouldn't be liable to do anything that might tend to alienate most Americans (and how many poets can that be said of?). But when you narrow down the pool (sorry for _that_ mixed metaphor) to old, respectable, successful, politically safe, responsible, user-friendly poets you may have known at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Vanderbilt, the ones they picked probably (mostly) aren't an outrage on their art. If one says, "I like this choice," one risks all sorts of accusations about going over to the enemy. But I'm glad Merwin got there, and Simic, and Hass, and Brooks, and Nemerov, and Bishop, and Frost. It may seem appalling that O'Hara, Creeley, Ashbery, Coolidge, and Mayer weren't given a shot (did anyone ever think to bring up Stevens's name?), but no doubt they'd have said something to make the Congressional Librarians blush. Jerry On 8/10/2011 12:26 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: And yet, Anny, it's such a dreary list somehow. Maybe that what makes you sad. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Look at Jerry's signature! I have to say that there are so many poets I love on this list, I just realized now. This makes me just so sad, don't ask me why. On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets, though most probably wouldn't take it to the point expressed by Levine, as noted in the NY Times article about his election: "Mr. Levine has been direct about his unpretentious diction. His ideal poem, he has said, is one in which 'no words are noticed.'? (I'd also say that if you don't "notice" the words in "They Feed They Lion" you won't see what a terrific poem that is.) Anyway, here's the list, which I trimmed down from the more fulsome set of descriptions on the Library of Congress site: (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate-1937-1960.html): 1937-1941 Joseph Auslander 1943-1944 Allen Tate 1944-1945 Robert Penn Warren 1945-1946 Louise Bogan 1946-1947 Karl Shapiro 1947-1948 Robert Lowell 1948-1949 Leonie Adams 1949-1950 Elizabeth Bishop 1950-1952 Conrad Aiken 1952 William Carlos Williams (elected, but didn?t serve) 1956-1958 Randall Jarrell 1958-1959 Robert Frost 1959-1961 Richard Eberhart 1961-1963 Louis Untermeyer 1963-1964 Howard Nemerov 1964-1965 Reed Whittemore 1965-1966 Stephen Spender 1966-1968 James Dickey 1968-1970 William Jay Smith 1970-1971 William Stafford 1971-1973 Josephine Jacobsen 1973-1974 Daniel Hoffman 1974-1976 Stanley Kunitz 1976-1978 Robert Hayden 1978-1980 William Meredith 1981-1982 Maxine Kumin 1982-1984 Anthony Hecht 1984-1985 Robert Fitzgerald 1984-1985 Reed Whittemore 1985-1986 Gwendolyn Brooks 1986-1987 Robert Penn Warren 1987-1988 Richard Wilbur 1988-1990 Howard Nemerov 1990-1991 Mark Strand 1991-1992 Joseph Brodsky 1992-1993 Mona Van Duyn 1993-1995 Rita Dove 1995-1997 Robert Hass 1997-2000 Robert Pinsky 1999-2000 Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin 2000-2001 Stanley Kunitz 2001-2003 Billy Collins 2003-2004 Louise Gl?ck 2004-2006 Ted Kooser 2006-2007 Donald Hall 2007-2008 Charles Simic 2008-2010 Kay Ryan 2010-2011 W.S. Merwin 2011-Present Philip Levine yrs, 20??-20?? Jerry McGuire _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 10 16:21:21 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <1312998183.86156.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1312998183.86156.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE25B2340CEE37-20BC-376C8@webmail-m160.sysops.aol.com> It's fair to point out that Levine's journey was not atypical for his generation, many of whom started out as fairly formal poets and moved into free verse. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:18 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In some ways they're both confessional, but there, it seems, the similiarities end. Berryman lines are more nervous ... as in The Dream Songs ... that long sonnet sequence that features an alter ego, Mr. Bones. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 1:36 PM On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:26 AM, David Graham wrote: > Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under > Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment > after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet > he became. Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back > in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. c -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 16:55:45 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:55:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <4E42E5C9.4000507@nut-n-but.net> References: <1312586515.86072.YahooMailClassic@web45608.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CE21E9FF1B08A3-1AB4-12B6C@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> <8CE234DCC658BFF-1A4C-17977@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> <206270933-1312768502-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1232711080-@b27.c31.bise6.blackberry> <4E406522.20507@nut-n-but.net> <4E42E5C9.4000507@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Of course, B-bob's right, as he always is. No "a." "is a rose" repeated three times (after the first). Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/10/2011 8:22 AM, R Dillon wrote: > > But, > > "A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose" > > looks Marxian to me > > No? > > > No. It's implacably reactionary. A Marxian poet would have written: "rose > is evidence of the tyranny of corporate capitalism." By the way, I'm pretty > sure there's no "a" at the beginning of the line. I'm not sure how many > times "is a rose" is repeated. > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 10 17:06:00 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:06:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <197D9AE6-F520-4D57-8C3E-480928731E76@ripon.edu> References: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <197D9AE6-F520-4D57-8C3E-480928731E76@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E42F2B8.6030900@louisiana.edu> While we're admiring and dissing the Laureate List, I'm surprised you missed the chance to rhyme Whitman and pink skin, Hughes with blues, and Millay with stairway (and Emerson with pumpkin--we could go on). You've got to grab your piece of the public pot when no one's looking. Jerry On 8/10/2011 3:08 PM, David Graham wrote: > > *"Hannah Arendt made great matzoh ball soup"* > * > * > --an unFounded poem.... > > Whitman had extremely pink skin > and loved wearing starched white shirts. > Langston Hughes, when he was alone, > talked to his plants and swore like a sailor. > If Edna Millay ever forgot to count > the number of steps in a stairway, > she had to descend and climb them again. > Frost wrote his best sonnets while nude, > yet could not pronounce the word "vagina." > Ralph Waldo Emerson's pumpkin soup > was to die for. James Merrill, unbenownst to all > but his closest friends, was a real gear-head, > and kept thirteen Harleys in a secret garage > in Southampton. O'Hara was not really gay, > he just liked to mess with your mind. > The only time Ginsberg got stark raging mad > was once in 1983 when a waiter served him cold tea. > Emily Dickinson, surprisingly, often > had filthy fingernails. Wallace Stevens's > French accent was atrocious, the true reason > he never went to Paris. William Carlos Williams > never could remember the difference > between "venereal" and "venerable." > Because of his terrible writers' block, > T. S. Eliot's sister wrote most of "The Four Quartets." > Sandburg kept a collection of French porcelain dolls, > donating them in his will to Ezra Pound. > Hart Crane hated candy but liked baby talk. > Though Marianne Moore, as everyone knows, > kept a cat named Vercingetorix, at home > she just called him "Kitty-ums." As it happens, > she really hated baseball. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 12:50 PM, junction at earthlink.net > wrote: > >> Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my >> late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, >> she made great matzoh ball soup. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 17:14:06 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:14:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kilogram, was Pound Message-ID: <13856279.1313010847554.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Just changing the topic header. Consider it a public service. From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 17:17:07 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:17:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kilogram, was Pound In-Reply-To: <13856279.1313010847554.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <13856279.1313010847554.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Oh, Mark, you're so . . . fundametrical. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:14 PM, wrote: > Just changing the topic header. Consider it a public service. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 17:18:19 2011 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:18:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kilogram, was Pound In-Reply-To: <13856279.1313010847554.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <13856279.1313010847554.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: You're kilometers ahead of the curve. - Jim On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Just changing the topic header. Consider it a public service. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Sol Literary Magazine: http://solliterarymagazine.com/ The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 10 17:10:44 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:10:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pound In-Reply-To: <4E42F2B8.6030900@louisiana.edu> References: <874842.1312998616886.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <197D9AE6-F520-4D57-8C3E-480928731E76@ripon.edu> <4E42F2B8.6030900@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <38477D7F-EA75-48A0-926E-991500012E56@ripon.edu> Though I wouldn't want to claim that I revised this much, I actually did have Whitman/pink skin in the first draft, along with Millay/gay and a few others; and revised them out. Richard Wilbur I ain't. . . . Emerson/pumpkin, however, is choice! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > While we're admiring and dissing the Laureate List, I'm surprised you missed the chance to rhyme Whitman and pink skin, Hughes with blues, and Millay with stairway (and Emerson with pumpkin--we could go on). You've got to grab your piece of the public pot when no one's looking. > > Jerry > > On 8/10/2011 3:08 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >> >> "Hannah Arendt made great matzoh ball soup" >> >> --an unFounded poem.... >> >> Whitman had extremely pink skin >> and loved wearing starched white shirts. >> Langston Hughes, when he was alone, >> talked to his plants and swore like a sailor. >> If Edna Millay ever forgot to count >> the number of steps in a stairway, >> she had to descend and climb them again. >> Frost wrote his best sonnets while nude, >> yet could not pronounce the word "vagina." >> Ralph Waldo Emerson's pumpkin soup >> was to die for. James Merrill, unbenownst to all >> but his closest friends, was a real gear-head, >> and kept thirteen Harleys in a secret garage >> in Southampton. O'Hara was not really gay, >> he just liked to mess with your mind. >> The only time Ginsberg got stark raging mad >> was once in 1983 when a waiter served him cold tea. >> Emily Dickinson, surprisingly, often >> had filthy fingernails. Wallace Stevens's >> French accent was atrocious, the true reason >> he never went to Paris. William Carlos Williams >> never could remember the difference >> between "venereal" and "venerable." >> Because of his terrible writers' block, >> T. S. Eliot's sister wrote most of "The Four Quartets." >> Sandburg kept a collection of French porcelain dolls, >> donating them in his will to Ezra Pound. >> Hart Crane hated candy but liked baby talk. >> Though Marianne Moore, as everyone knows, >> kept a cat named Vercingetorix, at home >> she just called him "Kitty-ums." As it happens, >> she really hated baseball. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 10, 2011, at 12:50 PM, junction at earthlink.net wrote: >> >>> Arendt was also noted for being very very smart. And according to my late friend Richard Elman, not always the most reliable of sources, she made great matzoh ball soup. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 10 17:42:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:42:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <27D7999D-BA63-4100-A657-4D28E875782B@ripon.edu> On Aug 10, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. > > c ================= I wouldn't say so, no. Levine has written about Berryman's brilliance as a teacher, though, and one thing they definitely have in common is a deep familiarity with and love of the canon. That sometimes surprises students coming for the first time to Levine's "grease shop" free verse, to learn how much he returns to Keats and so forth. In one of the Laureate interviews I just saw yesterday Levine was talking about his love of Thomas Hardy's work, for instance. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 17:47:53 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:47:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kilogram, was Pound Message-ID: <17950704.1313012874084.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Wed Aug 10 17:49:05 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:49:05 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <27D7999D-BA63-4100-A657-4D28E875782B@ripon.edu> References: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, <37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu>, , <27D7999D-BA63-4100-A657-4D28E875782B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: I get the feeling Levine really loved and revered Berryman as a teacher--as I recall he didn't find Lowell very sympathetic at all--and an emphasis on "the life of the line" sound-wise--something both he and Berryman note in Keats, a tremendous impression of energy (Levine would argue also for economy) within each line. I think Levine's other biggest influence oddly enough might have been his student Larry Levis... From: grahamd at ripon.edu Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:42:03 -0500 To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate On Aug 10, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Chris Lott wrote:Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. c ================= I wouldn't say so, no. Levine has written about Berryman's brilliance as a teacher, though, and one thing they definitely have in common is a deep familiarity with and love of the canon. That sometimes surprises students coming for the first time to Levine's "grease shop" free verse, to learn how much he returns to Keats and so forth. In one of the Laureate interviews I just saw yesterday Levine was talking about his love of Thomas Hardy's work, for instance. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.eduHome Page:http://web.me.com/drjazzPoetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 10 18:14:40 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:14:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seth Abramson's list of little corruptions Message-ID: <8CE25C2086F0962-1900-BEA5@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> http://www.northernpoetryreview.com/articles/seth-abramson/i-am-corrupted.html The list below isn?t ordered in any particular way -- for instance, from smallest to largest corruption -- as only the last item necessarily must appear in the position it appears. I mean, if it comes down to it I probably do think that (that some of these corruptions are graver than others), but this list hasn?t been created or ordered with that sort of micro-analysis in mind. Here are my two cents, then: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 10 18:18:15 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:18:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Philip Levine Named Poet Laureate, Read His Poem "Our Valley" In-Reply-To: <1009679917764.1108624542.1313008845286@enginex2.emv2.com> References: <1009679917764.1108624542.1313008845286@enginex2.emv2.com> Message-ID: <8CE25C288AB27C0-1900-BEE8@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Knopf Poetry To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:40 pm Subject: Philip Levine Named Poet Laureate, Read His Poem "Our Valley" KNOPF | TWITTER | FACEBOOK | YOUTUBE | FLICKR In celebration of Philip Levine's selection as the nation's new Poet Laureate, we'd like to share a poem from his 2009 collection, News of the World. Our Valley We don?t see the ocean, not ever, but in July and August when the worst heat seems to rise from the hard clay of this valley, you could be walking through a fig orchard when suddenly the wind cools and for a moment you get a whiff of salt, and in that moment you can almost believe something is waiting beyond the Pacheco Pass, something massive, irrational, and so powerful even the mountains that rise east of here have no word for it. You probably think I?m nuts saying the mountains have no word for ocean, but if you live here you begin to believe they know everything. They maintain that huge silence we think of as divine, a silence that grows in autumn when snow falls slowly between the pines and the wind dies to less than a whisper and you can barely catch your breath because you?re thrilled and terrified. You have to remember this isn?t your land. It belongs to no one, like the sea you once lived beside and thought was yours. Remember the small boats that bobbed out as the waves rode in, and the men who carved a living from it only to find themselves carved down to nothing. Now you say this is home, so go ahead, worship the mountains as they dissolve in dust, wait on the wind, catch a scent of salt, call it our life. More on this poem and author: Learn more about Philip Levine and see all of his titles published by Knopf. Read the New York Times article: "Voice of the Workingman to Be Poet Laureate." Excerpt from NEWS OF THE WORLD. Copyright ? 2009 by Philip Levine. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to aaknopf at randomhouse.com, or leave us a note on Facebook or Twitter. KNOPF | DOUBLEDAY | PANTHEON | SCHOCKEN | VINTAGE / ANCHOR | NAN A. TALESE | EVERYMAN'S LIBRARY READING GROUP CENTER | COOKING | MYSTERY | CONTESTS | SPECIAL OFFERS | SPEAKERS BUREAU Knopf You have received this message because you are subscribed to the Knopf Poetry newsletter. To change your subscription information, receive additional enewsletters or to unsubscribe from this list, please visit our email preference center. View our privacy policy. Copyright ? 1995-2011 Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. Random House, Inc., 1745 Broadway, New York, NY 10019 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 19:39:20 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:39:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E42E85F.7050801@nut-n-but.net> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu>< CADkt4se+YKdPFLBwxiZEtuT9rZ2e4PzKRREzg4xt0-BP+jnhqw@mail.gmail.com><4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net><4E429B46.7030901@louisiana. edu> <4E42E85F.7050801@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E4316A8.4090305@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 3:21 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Interestingly, the only Pulitzer-Winning Poet even slightly > technically innovative, Williams, was technically innovative for what > he didn't do in his poems, not what he did. > > --Bob Oops, I was referring to the poet laureate list. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 10 18:41:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:41:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <1312995217.66843.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><37A4450D-8F23-4AEB-84E2-BF4998EDCBF2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE25C5CC758DDA-1900-C258@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> >From "Mine Own John Berryman" in Philip Levine?s memoir The Bread of Time: Here' Levine quoting Berryman... ?This is NOT iambic,? he said. After getting through four lines, he turned and headed directly toward the cowering poet, suspended the page over his head, and finally let it fall. ?This is metrical chaos. Pray you avoid it, sir.? And recounting this exchange... ?For the power you so dearly aspire to, Levine, you must turn to the master, Milton, the most powerful poet in the language, though you might do well to avoid Latinate vocabulary. Have you studied Latin? Levine: ?No.? ?You might consider doing so; that way you?ll know what to avoid when you?re stealing from Milton. Do you have another favorite among your contemporaries?? Levine: ?Dylan Thomas.? Berryman: ?It doesn?t show, Levine, it doesn?t show. You?ve done a superb job of masking that particular debt. How have you managed that?? Levine: ?I didn?t. I wrote through my Dylan Thomas phase and quit. It was impossible for me to write under his influence and not sound exactly like him except terrible.? Berryman: ?Levine, you?ve hit upon a truth. Certain poets are so much themselves they should not be imitated: they leave you no room to be yourself, and Thomas was surely one of them, as was Hart Crane, who probably ruined the careers of more young poets than anything except booze. Levine, you might go to the source of Dylan?s own lyrical mysticism, and who would that be?? Silence. ?Mr. Justice?? Justice: ?Blake.? ?Exactly, you might go to Blake, who is so impossibly lyrical and inventive no one in the world has the talent to sound like him.? In an unusually hushed voice he recited all of Blake?s early ?Mad Song,? ending: I turn my back to the east From whence comforts have increas?d; For light doth seize my brain With frantic pain. ?Better to learn from a poet who does not intoxicate you,? said Berryman, ?better to immerse yourself in Hardy, whom no American poet wants to sound like. A great poet seldom read.? [note: Mr Justice is Donald Justice. Snodgrass was also at Iowa at the time.] Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:26 AM, David Graham wrote: > Levine, interestingly, started out as a VERY cooked poet, studying under > Berryman and Yvor Winters, and then had his road to Damascas moment > after reading William Carlos Williams and so forth, and became the poet > he became. Interesting essay by Levine as I recall on this topic, back > in the original *Naked Poetry* anthology in the late 60s. Did Levine's writing, at any time, resemble Berryman's? It's interesting to see someone potentially taking a path that is the reverse of the typical progression I would expect. c _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 18:40:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E4316A8.4090305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & what were some of the things that he did? ... the montage in Paterson ...? the line breaks in So ??????? much ??????? depends ... perhaps Kora in Hell? the good doctor was amazing. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 7:39 PM On 8/10/2011 3:21 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Interestingly, the only Pulitzer-Winning Poet even slightly technically innovative, Williams, was technically innovative for what he didn't do in his poems, not what he did. > > --Bob Oops, I was referring to the poet laureate list. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 10 18:49:53 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:49:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E4316A8.4090305@nut-n-but.net> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu><4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net><4E429B46.7030901@louisiana.edu> <4E42E85F.7050801@nut-n-but.net> <4E4316A8.4090305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE25C6F3E3AC92-1900-C3D4@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> Your self-correction surprised me, Bob...I expected you to say, "Stet...Pulitzer, Poet Laureate, National Book Award, all the same, interchangeable mediocrities, all poets who wouldn't know an innovative poem if they tripped over one." -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 7:39 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets On 8/10/2011 3:21 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Interestingly, the only Pulitzer-Winning Poet even slightly > technically innovative, Williams, was technically innovative for what > he didn't do in his poems, not what he did. > > --Bob Oops, I was referring to the poet laureate list. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 20:08:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:08:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 5:40 PM, stephen russell wrote: > & what were some of the things that he did? ... the montage in Paterson > I forgot about Paterson, probably because I've never liked it much > ... the line breaks > in So > Being good at line-breaks does not require one to be significantly innovative. > > much > depends ... perhaps Kora in Hell? > > the good doctor was amazing. > He's in my top ten American poets who were in their prime before 1960, but I wouldn't call him amazing. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 10 20:16:27 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:16:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <8CE25C6F3E3AC92-1900-C3D4@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> References: <50D09E51-3738-4DE2-B16E-FDFB1B744E8A@ripon.edu>< CADkt4se+YKdPFLBwxiZEtuT9rZ2e4PzKRREzg4xt0-BP+jnhqw@mail.gmail.com><4E42685C.5090101@nut-n-but.net><4E429B46.7030901@louisiana. edu><4E42E85F.7050801@nut-n-but.net> <4E4316A8.4090305@nut-n-but.net> <8CE25C6F3E3AC92-1900-C3D4@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E431F5B.7030602@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 5:49 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Your self-correction surprised me, Bob...I expected you to say, > "Stet...Pulitzer, Poet Laureate, National Book Award, all the same, > interchangeable mediocrities, all poets who wouldn't know > an innovative poem if they tripped over one." I've never said anything like that. What I continually say is that the people who give out these awards are mediocrities who absolutely do know, and are horrified, by poetry that does something not widely-done fifty or more years ago. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 19:10:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313017832.69582.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> You have a top ten. You're a list maker. That's sick. I have a top twenty. Williams wrote short stories, plays, novels ... & praticed medicine. That is amazing. --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 8:08 PM On 8/10/2011 5:40 PM, stephen russell wrote: & what were some of the things that he did? ... the montage in Paterson I forgot about Paterson, probably because I've never liked it much ...? the line breaks in So Being good at line-breaks does not require one to be significantly innovative. ??????? much ??????? depends ... perhaps Kora in Hell? the good doctor was amazing. He's in my top ten American poets who were in their prime before 1960, but I wouldn't call him amazing. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 10 19:51:30 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:51:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct amazements. But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. Cheers, Jerry On 8/10/2011 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/10/2011 5:40 PM, stephen russell wrote: >> & what were some of the things that he did? ... the montage in Paterson >> > > I forgot about Paterson, probably because I've never liked it much > >> ... the line breaks >> in So >> > > Being good at line-breaks does not require one to be significantly > innovative. > >> >> much >> depends ... perhaps Kora in Hell? >> >> the good doctor was amazing. >> > > He's in my top ten American poets who were in their prime before 1960, > but I wouldn't call him amazing. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 20:34:49 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:34:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I quite like Auden's idea of the committee & thank you Jerry for bringing it to this list. Mine would probably include Auden, and WIlliams, Rich, Dickinson, Ginsberg, Bishop, Moore and a crowd of others fighting over seats at the table, and probably demanding more drinks. Carol talkingwriting.com On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of > practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, > attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is > addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms > and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) > we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading > poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, > pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee > there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it > in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to > demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to > confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary > language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of > amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of > Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of > expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by > that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of > "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. > He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably > intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. > It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the > inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; > see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American > Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to > me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of > not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet > I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and > tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct > amazements. > > But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. > People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking > for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who > care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're > suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get > the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a > Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very > particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess > hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though > perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me > to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings > against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I > shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. > > Cheers, > > Jerry > > > On 8/10/2011 7:08 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 8/10/2011 5:40 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > & what were some of the things that he did? ... the montage in Paterson > > > I forgot about Paterson, probably because I've never liked it much > > ... the line breaks > in So > > > Being good at line-breaks does not require one to be significantly > innovative. > > > much > depends ... perhaps Kora in Hell? > > the good doctor was amazing. > > > He's in my top ten American poets who were in their prime before 1960, but > I wouldn't call him amazing. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Wed Aug 10 21:10:11 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:10:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine Named U.S. Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <4E426990.7090609@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E426990.7090609@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 3:20 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Just a yawn, Chris. ?But why should I get jumped on if I were to say my > negative usual after several or more get to say their positive usual? > Well, I didn't jump on you. And generally positive statements cover a range of different things while your negative assessment are all pretty much the same... for me, at least, your regular blanket objection is a given. Which is why I find your praise of the poets you enjoy much more interesting-- usually you say something that illuminates some part of them. c From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 10 22:28:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:28:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Who cares about the Sox?...Natl Poetry Slam in Beantown Message-ID: <8CE25E56F7A7DCA-F70-12774@webmail-d055.sysops.aol.com> http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2011_0808pass_the_word_poetry_slam_to_hit_hub/ http://nps2011.com/ http://austinist.com/2011/08/09/austin_at_national_poetry_slam_gues.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 10 23:36:44 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:36:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his amazing ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary unconvincing, incoherent, and just plain unclear. For instance, no matter how much Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, never made much sense to me. Nor do I see him being at all consistent when, for example, he read his variable foot poems aloud. So his theories are not something I've learned much from. But yes, it is what he does in practice that is amazing. Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all kinds of "emotive subject matter." Robert Coles praises him for more directly confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his contemporaries, for instance. Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, emoting wildly all over the place, often in tension with the clinician. His poems aren't any more coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's not a negative, necessarily. In a poem like "Waiting" he can also be very subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or passages he often throws out the window his theories about poems being "machines made of words" and so forth. Wonderfully so. Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. Though in the popular mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a red-wheelbarrow imagist, in fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big ideas, non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter (flowers! spring! nude women!), and so forth. Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. He's that and more, to my mind, large & containing several multitudes. l like the notion of an inner committee, too. And I'd agree that Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I suspect. Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on this list. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct amazements. > > But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. > > Cheers, > > Jerry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 11 00:09:04 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:09:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E4355E0.1090206@louisiana.edu> I think my double-dipping adjective got lost in the shuffle. Where I wrote about "his refusal of 'poetic' rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter," I didn't mean that Williams renounces emotive subject matter, but that his renunciation extends to conventionally "poetic" emotional content. David and I may still disagree a bit here, but at least that should straighten out just this much of my awkward syntax. And maybe my point--since I certainly agree that Williams has a romantic (I wouldn't say Romantic) streak, and that he _does_ use rhetoric (who doesn't?), and that he expresses emotions (sometimes lushly)--should be that I most admire his efforts to sidestep, endrun, and bypass the expectations we might have adopted from the big-R Romantics onward, and that certainly persist (with an epoch-appropriate dampening) in lots of poets from the nineteenth century right up to today. I actually enjoy (Richard Wilbur did, too) his less closed-off efforts, but they feel hugely different from those efforts of greater self-constraint, and these (yes, the wheelbarrow, the plums, the wild carrot, sure, why not?) are the ones that strike me as wonderful experiments in form--sometimes the moreso when they falter. best, Jerry On 8/10/2011 10:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. > > I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his > amazing ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary > unconvincing, incoherent, and just plain unclear. For instance, no > matter how much Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, > The Variable Foot, never made much sense to me. Nor do I see him > being at all consistent when, for example, he read his variable foot > poems aloud. So his theories are not something I've learned much > from. But yes, it is what he does in practice that is amazing. > > Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all > kinds of "emotive subject matter." Robert Coles praises him for more > directly confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost > any other of his contemporaries, for instance. > > Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached > diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, > emoting wildly all over the place, often in tension with the > clinician. His poems aren't any more coherent intellectually than his > critical prose, but that's not a negative, necessarily. In a poem > like "Waiting" he can also be very subtle and delicate, emotionally, > and in such poems or passages he often throws out the window his > theories about poems being "machines made of words" and so forth. > Wonderfully so. > > Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. Though in the > popular mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a > red-wheelbarrow imagist, in fact his poems are full of all kinds of > wild abstraction, big ideas, non-ordinary language, highly poetic > subject matter (flowers! spring! nude women!), and so forth. > > Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. He's that and more, to my > mind, large & containing several multitudes. > > l like the notion of an inner committee, too. And I'd agree that > Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . > > But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I > suspect. Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on > this list. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code >> of practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, >> attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is >> addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called >> symptoms and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that >> (like the man said) we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged >> in producing or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of >> personal strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden >> said that on every internal committee there has to be a drill >> sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in quotes, but >> it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to demonstrate how >> WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to confront >> the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary >> language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of >> amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures >> of Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of >> expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I >> mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his >> refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive >> subject matter. He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem >> (in a remarkably intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed >> his inner panel with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist >> devote his whole life to the inner workings of one dead butterfly: >> see, here's how it digests its food; see, here's how it flies. >> Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American Grain (mostly) bores >> me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to me. But that >> spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of not >> quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every >> poet I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more >> tropes and tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own >> distinct amazements. >> >> But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a >> bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski >> are looking for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say >> that people who care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve >> the amazements they're suited for--they've assembled their own inner >> committees and deserve to get the best work they can out of them. >> There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a Romanian acrobat, and an >> Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very particular drill >> sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess hall of >> Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though >> perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room >> for me to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line >> endings against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't >> see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jerry >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 11 07:07:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 06:07:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer-Winning Poets In-Reply-To: <1313017832.69582.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313017832.69582.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E43B7FF.7030708@nut-n-but.net> On 8/10/2011 6:10 PM, stephen russell wrote: > You have a top ten. You're a list maker. That's sick. > I have a top twenty. > I barely filled my top ten. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 06:55:26 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 06:55:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <4E4355E0.1090206@louisiana.edu> References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> <4E4355E0.1090206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: What I've found amazing about WCW is his directness: his refusal to deal with this in terms of that--his rejection (by and large) of metaphor, allegory, etc. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I think my double-dipping adjective got lost in the shuffle. Where I > wrote about "his refusal of 'poetic' rhetoric and subject matter, > especially emotive subject matter," I didn't mean that Williams renounces > emotive subject matter, but that his renunciation extends to conventionally > "poetic" emotional content. David and I may still disagree a bit here, but > at least that should straighten out just this much of my awkward syntax. > > And maybe my point--since I certainly agree that Williams has a romantic (I > wouldn't say Romantic) streak, and that he _does_ use rhetoric (who > doesn't?), and that he expresses emotions (sometimes lushly)--should be that > I most admire his efforts to sidestep, endrun, and bypass the expectations > we might have adopted from the big-R Romantics onward, and that certainly > persist (with an epoch-appropriate dampening) in lots of poets from the > nineteenth century right up to today. I actually enjoy (Richard Wilbur did, > too) his less closed-off efforts, but they feel hugely different from those > efforts of greater self-constraint, and these (yes, the wheelbarrow, the > plums, the wild carrot, sure, why not?) are the ones that strike me as > wonderful experiments in form--sometimes the moreso when they falter. > > best, > > Jerry > > On 8/10/2011 10:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > > A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. > > I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his amazing > ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary unconvincing, > incoherent, and just plain unclear. For instance, no matter how much > Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, > never made much sense to me. Nor do I see him being at all consistent when, > for example, he read his variable foot poems aloud. So his theories are not > something I've learned much from. But yes, it is what he does in practice > that is amazing. > > Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all kinds > of "emotive subject matter." Robert Coles praises him for more directly > confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his > contemporaries, for instance. > > Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached > diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, emoting > wildly all over the place, often in tension with the clinician. His poems > aren't any more coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's > not a negative, necessarily. In a poem like "Waiting" he can also be very > subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or passages he often > throws out the window his theories about poems being "machines made of > words" and so forth. Wonderfully so. > > Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. Though in the > popular mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a red-wheelbarrow > imagist, in fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big > ideas, non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter (flowers! > spring! nude women!), and so forth. > > Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. He's that and more, to my > mind, large & containing several multitudes. > > l like the notion of an inner committee, too. And I'd agree that > Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . > > But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I > suspect. Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on this > list. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of > practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, > attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is > addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms > and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) > we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading > poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, > pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee > there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it > in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to > demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to > confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary > language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of > amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of > Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of > expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by > that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of > "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. > He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably > intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. > It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the > inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; > see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American > Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to > me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of > not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet > I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and > tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct > amazements. > > But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. > People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking > for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who > care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're > suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get > the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a > Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very > particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess > hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though > perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me > to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings > against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I > shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. > > Cheers, > > Jerry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 07:40:42 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313062842.5710.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical devices are sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to Wheelbarrow, demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to contradict themselves ... take that, Bob ... --- On Wed, 8/10/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 11:36 PM A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. ? I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his amazing ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary unconvincing, incoherent, and just plain unclear. ?For instance, no matter how much Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, never made much sense to me. ?Nor do I see him being at all consistent when, for example, he read his variable foot poems aloud. ?So his theories are not something I've learned much from. ?But yes, it is what he does in practice that is amazing. Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all kinds of "emotive subject matter." ?Robert Coles praises him for more directly confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his contemporaries, for instance. Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, emoting wildly all over the place, often in tension with the clinician. ?His poems aren't any more coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's not a negative, necessarily. ?In a poem like "Waiting" he can also be very subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or passages he often throws out the window his theories about poems being "machines made of words" and so forth. ?Wonderfully so. Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. ?Though in the popular mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a red-wheelbarrow imagist, in fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big ideas, non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter (flowers! ?spring! nude women!), and so forth. ? Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. ?He's that and more, to my mind, large & containing several multitudes. ? l like the notion of an inner committee, too. ?And I'd agree that Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I suspect. ?Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on this list. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct amazements. But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. Cheers, Jerry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 07:59:04 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <4E4355E0.1090206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1313063944.4472.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> yes, the plum poem ... & similiar efforts ... Williams introduced the Kitchen Magnet poem. --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:09 AM I think my double-dipping adjective got lost in the shuffle. Where I wrote about "his refusal of 'poetic' rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter," I didn't mean that Williams renounces emotive subject matter, but that his renunciation extends to conventionally "poetic" emotional content. David and I may still disagree a bit here, but at least that should straighten out just this much of my awkward syntax. And maybe my point--since I certainly agree that Williams has a romantic (I wouldn't say Romantic) streak, and that he _does_ use rhetoric (who doesn't?), and that he expresses emotions (sometimes lushly)--should be that I most admire his efforts to sidestep, endrun, and bypass the expectations we might have adopted from the big-R Romantics onward, and that certainly persist (with an epoch-appropriate dampening) in lots of poets from the nineteenth century right up to today. I actually enjoy (Richard Wilbur did, too) his less closed-off efforts, but they feel hugely different from those efforts of greater self-constraint, and these (yes, the wheelbarrow, the plums, the wild carrot, sure, why not?) are the ones that strike me as wonderful experiments in form--sometimes the moreso when they falter. best, Jerry On 8/10/2011 10:36 PM, David Graham wrote: A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. ? I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his amazing ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary unconvincing, incoherent, and just plain unclear. ?For instance, no matter how much Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, never made much sense to me. ?Nor do I see him being at all consistent when, for example, he read his variable foot poems aloud. ?So his theories are not something I've learned much from. ?But yes, it is what he does in practice that is amazing. Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all kinds of "emotive subject matter." ?Robert Coles praises him for more directly confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his contemporaries, for instance. Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, emoting wildly all over the place, often in tension with the clinician. ?His poems aren't any more coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's not a negative, necessarily. ?In a poem like "Waiting" he can also be very subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or passages he often throws out the window his theories about poems being "machines made of words" and so forth. ?Wonderfully so. Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. ?Though in the popular mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a red-wheelbarrow imagist, in fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big ideas, non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter (flowers! ?spring! nude women!), and so forth. ? Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. ?He's that and more, to my mind, large & containing several multitudes. ? l like the notion of an inner committee, too. ?And I'd agree that Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I suspect. ?Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on this list. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct amazements. But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. Cheers, Jerry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 09:10:28 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:10:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Forgotten novelist? (Or, maybe, as Ms Vendler said, "I never read novels.") On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 11:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. > > I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily for his amazing > ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical commentary unconvincing, > incoherent, and just plain unclear. For instance, no matter how much > Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, > never made much sense to me. Nor do I see him being at all consistent when, > for example, he read his variable foot poems aloud. So his theories are not > something I've learned much from. But yes, it is what he does in practice > that is amazing. > > Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him employing all kinds of > "emotive subject matter." Robert Coles praises him for more directly > confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his > contemporaries, for instance. > > Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the detached > diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a raging Romantic, emoting > wildly all over the place, often in tension with the clinician. His poems > aren't any more coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's > not a negative, necessarily. In a poem like "Waiting" he can also be very > subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or passages he often > throws out the window his theories about poems being "machines made of > words" and so forth. Wonderfully so. > > Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. Though in the popular > mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a red-wheelbarrow imagist, in > fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big ideas, > non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter (flowers! spring! nude > women!), and so forth. > > Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. He's that and more, to my mind, > large & containing several multitudes. > > l like the notion of an inner committee, too. And I'd agree that Paterson > is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . > > But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might suggest, I > suspect. Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a while, anyhow, even on this > list. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet has not simply a code of > practice, but an internal "committee" made up of varying factions, > attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem is > addressed--which makes every poem something like what Freud called symptoms > and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) > we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing or reading > poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal strategies, wishes, > pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on every internal committee > there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it > in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's my point: to > demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I need to > confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of ordinary > language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the sense of > amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the large structures of > Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do with a game of > expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by > that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: his refusal of > "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially emotive subject matter. > He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem (in a remarkably > intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner panel with. > It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his whole life to the > inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests its food; > see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the American > Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed extraordinary, not to > me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it flying!) after many years of > not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically every poet > I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed far more tropes and > tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their own distinct > amazements. > > But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist hunched over a bug. > People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or Bukowski are looking > for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd say that people who > care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the amazements they're > suited for--they've assembled their own inner committees and deserve to get > the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a > Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a very > particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me in the mess > hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though > perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all leave room for me > to be knocked into delight by certain ways of patterning line endings > against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I > shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my pleasure. > > Cheers, > > Jerry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 11 11:35:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:35:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <1313062842.5710.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313062842.5710.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E43F6C1.8000707@nut-n-but.net> On 8/11/2011 6:40 AM, stephen russell wrote: > yes, he did emote, in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical devices are > sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to Wheelbarrow, > demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to contradict themselves > ... take that, Bob ... > Not sure what's to take, Stephen. He emoted, and he used all the standard poetic devices well--except rhyme and meter (or did he use them, too--I honestly don't know). He used unstandard devices in Paterson, although not to the degree that Pound used them in the Cantos. He was thus mildly innovative, technically. Dunno what you mean by mediocrities not being able to contradict themselves. They do it all the time. Everybody does it. I could probably do a thesis on contradicting, but won't. I think the less mediocre you are, the more able you are to catch and mend your contradictions. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 11 10:59:21 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:59:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: References: <1313016038.66765.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E431D7F.5020209@nut-n-but.net> <4E431982.8020005@louisiana.edu> <4E4355E0.1090206@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8AE8822F-5058-4A5D-BF38-AF49FE64BCCD@ripon.edu> One thing I find remarkable about WCW is how protean he is. Hal has a valid point about his rejection (by & large) of metaphor, allegory, symbol, and so forth. But that's just one slice of the pie, the Objectivist/Imagist WCW. There are about 16 other Williamses. It's notable how poets of many different stripes have claimed Williams as major influence. Any time you've got poets as distinct as Lowell, Ginsberg, Bly, Levine, Oppen, Levertov, Silliman, Blackburn, Pinsky, and Creeley (to pick a nearly random list) all paying homage to the same elder poet, that's something. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 11, 2011, at 5:55 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > What I've found amazing about WCW is his directness: his refusal to deal with this in terms of that--his rejection (by and large) of metaphor, allegory, etc. > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Aug 11 11:00:23 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 07:00:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <8CE25B2340CEE37-20BC-376C8@webmail-m160.sysops.aol.com> References: <1312998183.86156.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE25B2340CEE37-20BC-376C8@webmail-m160.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 12:21 PM, wrote: > It's fair to point out that Levine's journey was not atypical for his > generation, many of whom started out as fairly formal poets and moved into > free verse. I was unaware of Levine being a formalist at any time, though I don't really think of Berryman as a formalist but rather as someone rather outside the mainstream. Which led me to interpret this as Levine going the opposite direction, from non-mainstream to decidedly mainstream. Of course I could have paid attention and seen Yvor Winters in there. But then understanding Winters and Berryman as being similar makes my head hurt. I only know Berryman from the Dream Songs. c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 11:47:31 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:47:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine Message-ID: Hi everyone, I wrote a short appreciate of Philip Levine over at my blog. Check it out if you're so inclined. http://www.jeffnewberry.com/philiplevine Best, Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 12:28:21 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:28:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you very much, Jeff ! Finally it is honorable for poets to think and write of the dignity, the human dignity, of work ! S?amas http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain _______________________________ On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I wrote a short appreciate of Philip Levine over at my blog.? Check it out > if you're so inclined. > > http://www.jeffnewberry.com/philiplevine > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that > is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 12:57:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <4E43F6C1.8000707@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313081855.80280.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In Asphodel he had a name and methodology for the 3 line stanzas. I don't recall it well, or at all.? There's probably some overlap with Ginsberg, a poet William's influenced. William's may not be hugely innovative, but he's been widely imitated. . Of course, Bukowski has also had a large influence. The secret to the Buk's success isn't hard to figure out. He was a born story teller. & everyone likes a good story. --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 11:35 AM On 8/11/2011 6:40 AM, stephen russell wrote: yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical devices are sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to Wheelbarrow, demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to contradict themselves ... take that, Bob ... Not sure what's to take, Stephen.? He emoted, and he used all the standard poetic devices well--except rhyme and meter (or did he use them, too--I honestly don't know).? He used unstandard devices in Paterson, although not to the degree that Pound used them in the Cantos.? He was thus mildly innovative, technically. Dunno what you mean by mediocrities not being able to contradict themselves.? They do it all the time.? Everybody does it.? I could probably do a thesis on contradicting, but won't.? I think the less mediocre you are, the more able you are to catch and mend your contradictions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Thu Aug 11 13:17:52 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313083072.56889.YahooMailClassic@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> With all this talk of Patterson I would recommend Book of the Dead by Muriel Rukeyser Not sure if there is a suitable edition to read these days mine is from the late 30's / early 40's. Rukeyser takes a subject / location passes it through various forms and treatments to surround the subject. Always thot it surpassed Patterson due to the economy achieves the effect in 1/3 the length and contains more expansive variations of form. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts --- On Thu, 8/11/11, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 13, Issue 14 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 4:00 PM > Send New-Poetry mailing list > submissions to > ??? new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > ??? new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: William Carlos Williams (stephen > russell) > ???2. Re: William Carlos Williams (stephen > russell) > ???3. Re: William Carlos Williams (Paul > Howell) > ???4. Re: William Carlos Williams (Bob > Grumman) > ???5. Re: William Carlos Williams (David > Graham) > ???6. Re: Philip Levine named Poet Laureate > (Chris Lott) > ???7. Philip Levine (Jeff Newberry) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:40:42 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > Message-ID: > ??? <1313062842.5710.YahooMailClassic at web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical > devices are sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to > Wheelbarrow, demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable > to contradict themselves ... take that, Bob ... > > --- On Wed, 8/10/11, David Graham > wrote: > > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 11:36 PM > > A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. ? > I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read primarily > for his amazing ideas; and in fact, I find much of his > critical commentary unconvincing, incoherent, and just plain > unclear. ?For instance, no matter how much Williams huffed > and puffed, his statements about, say, The Variable Foot, > never made much sense to me. ?Nor do I see him being at all > consistent when, for example, he read his variable foot > poems aloud. ?So his theories are not something I've learned > much from. ?But yes, it is what he does in practice that is > amazing. > Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him > employing all kinds of "emotive subject matter." ?Robert > Coles praises him for more directly confronting "the great > unmentionables" of life than almost any other of his > contemporaries, for instance. > Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the > detached diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a > raging Romantic, emoting wildly all over the place, often in > tension with the clinician. ?His poems aren't any more > coherent intellectually than his critical prose, but that's > not a negative, necessarily. ?In a poem like "Waiting" he > can also be very subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in > such poems or passages he often throws out the window his > theories about poems being "machines made of words" and so > forth. ?Wonderfully so. > Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to me. > ?Though in the popular mind he's often taken as a straight > populist, a red-wheelbarrow imagist, in fact his poems are > full of all kinds of wild abstraction, big ideas, > non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter > (flowers! ?spring! nude women!), and so forth. ? > Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet. ?He's that and > more, to my mind, large & containing several multitudes. > ? > l like the notion of an inner committee, too. ?And I'd > agree that Paterson is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . > But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above might > suggest, I suspect. ?Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a > while, anyhow, even on this list. > > > > ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz > Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== > > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > ? > ? ? > ? > ? > ? ? I've always liked Auden's idea > ? ? that every poet has not simply a code of > practice, but an internal > ? ? "committee" made up of varying factions, > attitudes, social > ? ? tendencies, to whom every gesture in the poem > is addressed--which > ? ? makes every poem something like what Freud > called symptoms and > ? ? dreams: compromise formations. It's just to > say that (like the man > ? ? said) we contain multitudes, and the energies > engaged in producing > ? ? or reading poems aren't limitless, but coded > to a set of personal > ? ? strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain > systems, etc. Auden said that > ? ? on every internal committee there has to be a > drill sergeant who > ? ? thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd put it in > quotes, but it's a rough > ? ? recollection.) And here's my point: to > demonstrate how WCW is > ? ? "amazing" (as he certainly seems to me), I > need to confront the way > ? ? in which I'm amazed by minute particulars of > ordinary language--or > ? ? should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the > sense of amazement > ? ? comes from seeing him at work not on the > large structures of > ? ? Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having > to do with a game of > ? ? expectations played out on the field of a > renunciatory rhetoric--I > ? ? mean by that that it _is_ what he renounces > that makes him great: > ? ? his refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject > matter, especially > ? ? emotive subject matter. He's always speaking > both to the reader of > ? ? his poem (in a remarkably intimate way) and > to the Drill Sergeants > ? ? he's packed his inner panel with. It's like > watching a patient > ? ? lepidopterist devote his whole life to the > inner workings of one > ? ? dead butterfly: see, here's how it digests > its food; see, here's how > ? ? it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In > the American Grain > ? ? (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never > seemed extraordinary, not > ? ? to me. But that spectacle (see? you can > imagine it flying!) after > ? ? many years of not quite getting him, now does > strike me as amazing. > ? ? Practically every poet I'm familiar > with--even Oppen, even > ? ? Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to > get the language to > ? ? deliver, to secure their own distinct > amazements. > > ? ? > > ? ? But not everyone cares to hunch over a > microscopist hunched over a > ? ? bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery > or Stevens or Bukowski > ? ? are looking for something else, have _found_ > something else. I'd say > ? ? that people who care about poetry enough to > argue about it deserve > ? ? the amazements they're suited for--they've > assembled their own inner > ? ? committees and deserve to get the best work > they can out of them. > ? ? There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a > Romanian acrobat, and an > ? ? Emily Dickinson clone on mine, along with a > very particular drill > ? ? sergeant who forty years ago once insulted me > in the mess hall of > ? ? Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is > there, too, though > ? ? perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. > Somehow they all leave room > ? ? for me to be knocked into delight by certain > ways of patterning line > ? ? endings against and with trajectories of > meaning and sound. I can't > ? ? see why I shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone > would object to my > ? ? pleasure. > > ? ? > > ? ? Cheers, > > ? ? > > ? ? Jerry > > ? ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:59:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: stephen russell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > Message-ID: > ??? <1313063944.4472.YahooMailClassic at web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > yes, the plum poem ... & similiar efforts ... Williams > introduced the Kitchen Magnet poem. > > --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Jerry McGuire > wrote: > > From: Jerry McGuire > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:09 AM > > > ? > > ? ? > ? I think my double-dipping adjective got > ? ? ? lost in the shuffle. Where I wrote > about "his refusal of > ? ? 'poetic' rhetoric and subject matter, > especially emotive subject > ? ? matter," I didn't mean that Williams > renounces emotive subject > ? ? matter, but that his renunciation extends to > conventionally "poetic" > ? ? emotional content. David and I may still > disagree a bit here, but at > ? ? least that should straighten out just this > much of my awkward > ? ? syntax. > > ? ? > > ? ? And maybe my point--since I certainly agree > that Williams has a > ? ? romantic (I wouldn't say Romantic) streak, > and that he _does_ use > ? ? rhetoric (who doesn't?), and that he > expresses emotions (sometimes > ? ? lushly)--should be that I most admire his > efforts to sidestep, > ? ? endrun, and bypass the expectations we might > have adopted from the > ? ? big-R Romantics onward, and that certainly > persist (with an > ? ? epoch-appropriate dampening) in lots of poets > from the nineteenth > ? ? century right up to today. I actually enjoy > (Richard Wilbur did, > ? ? too) his less closed-off efforts, but they > feel hugely different > ? ? from those efforts of greater > self-constraint, and these (yes, the > ? ? wheelbarrow, the plums, the wild carrot, > sure, why not?) are the > ? ? ones that strike me as wonderful experiments > in form--sometimes the > ? ? moreso when they falter. > > ? ? > > ? ? best, > > ? ? > > ? ? Jerry > > ? ? > > ? ? On 8/10/2011 10:36 PM, David Graham wrote: > ? ? A few probably discombobulated thoughts on > WCW. ? > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? I'd certainly agree that he's not a > poet I read primarily for > ? ? ? ? his amazing ideas; and in fact, > I find much of his critical > ? ? ? ? commentary unconvincing, > incoherent, and just plain unclear. > ? ? ? ? ?For instance, no matter how > much Williams huffed and puffed, > ? ? ? ? his statements about, say, The > Variable Foot, never made much > ? ? ? ? sense to me. ?Nor do I see him > being at all consistent when, for > ? ? ? ? example, he read his variable > foot poems aloud. ?So his theories > ? ? ? ? are not something I've learned > much from. ?But yes, it is what > ? ? ? ? he does in practice that is > amazing. > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? Where I think I differ with Jerry is > that I see him employing > ? ? ? ? all kinds of "emotive subject > matter." ?Robert Coles praises him > ? ? ? ? for more directly confronting > "the great unmentionables" of life > ? ? ? ? than almost any other of his > contemporaries, for instance. > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? Sure, there's a strain in Williams > where he plays the > ? ? ? ? detached diagnostician or > word-scientist, but I also see a > ? ? ? ? raging Romantic, emoting wildly > all over the place, often in > ? ? ? ? tension with the clinician. > ?His poems aren't any more coherent > ? ? ? ? intellectually than his > critical prose, but that's not a > ? ? ? ? negative, necessarily. ?In a > poem like "Waiting" he can also be > ? ? ? ? very subtle and delicate, > emotionally, and in such poems or > ? ? ? ? passages he often throws out > the window his theories about poems > ? ? ? ? being "machines made of words" > and so forth. ?Wonderfully so. > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? Nor does he always avoid high > rhetoric, seems to me. ?Though > ? ? ? ? in the popular mind he's often > taken as a straight populist, a > ? ? ? ? red-wheelbarrow imagist, in > fact his poems are full of all kinds > ? ? ? ? of wild abstraction, big ideas, > non-ordinary language, highly > ? ? ? ? poetic subject matter (flowers! > ?spring! nude women!), and so > ? ? ? ? forth. ? > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? Rexroth once called him a Franciscan > poet. ?He's that and > ? ? ? ? more, to my mind, large & > containing several multitudes. ? > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? l like the notion of an inner > committee, too. ?And I'd agree > ? ? ? ? that Paterson is more than a > bit of a snooze. . . . > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? But probably Jerry and I differ less > than the above might > ? ? ? ? suggest, I suspect. ?Sure is > nice to talk poetry once in a > ? ? ? ? while, anyhow, even on this > list. > > ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ======================================== > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? David Graham > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? grahamd at ripon.edu > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? Home Page: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? http://web.me.com/drjazz > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? Poetry Library: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ========================================== > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 > PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ???I've > always liked Auden's idea that > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? every poet > has not simply a code of practice, but an > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? internal > "committee" made up of varying factions, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? attitudes, > social tendencies, to whom every gesture in the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? poem is > addressed--which makes every poem something like > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? what Freud > called symptoms and dreams: compromise > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > formations. It's just to say that (like the man said) we > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? contain > multitudes, and the energies engaged in producing > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? or reading > poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? personal > strategies, wishes, pleasure-and-pain systems, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? etc. Auden > said that on every internal committee there has > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to be a > drill sergeant who thinks all poetry is bunk. (I'd > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? put it in > quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? here's my > point: to demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? he > certainly seems to me), I need to confront the way in > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? which I'm > amazed by minute particulars of ordinary > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sense of > amazement comes from seeing him at work not on > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? the large > structures of Paterson, but on fine gestural > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? matters > having to do with a game of expectations played > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? out on the > field of a renunciatory rhetoric--I mean by > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? that that > it _is_ what he renounces that makes him great: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? his > refusal of "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? especially > emotive subject matter. He's always speaking > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? both to > the reader of his poem (in a remarkably intimate > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? way) and > to the Drill Sergeants he's packed his inner > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? panel > with. It's like watching a patient lepidopterist > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? devote his > whole life to the inner workings of one dead > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? butterfly: > see, here's how it digests its food; see, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? here's how > it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores me, In the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? American > Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? seemed > extraordinary, not to me. But that spectacle (see? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? you can > imagine it flying!) after many years of not quite > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? getting > him, now does strike me as amazing. Practically > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? every poet > I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > Creeley--needed far more tropes and tricks to get the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? language > to deliver, to secure their own distinct > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > amazements. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? But not > everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? hunched > over a bug. People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? or Stevens > or Bukowski are looking for something else, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? have > _found_ something else. I'd say that people who care > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? about > poetry enough to argue about it deserve the > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? amazements > they're suited for--they've assembled their own > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? inner > committees and deserve to get the best work they can > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? out of > them. There's a drunken ex-baseball player, a > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Romanian > acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on mine, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? along with > a very particular drill sergeant who forty > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? years ago > once insulted me in the mess hall of Lackland > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Air Force > Base. I suspect Freud is there, too, though > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? perhaps > the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they all > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? leave room > for me to be knocked into delight by certain > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ways of > patterning line endings against and with > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > trajectories of meaning and sound. I can't see why I > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? shouldn't > be amazed, or why anyone would object to my > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pleasure. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Cheers, > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jerry > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > ? ? ? > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ? ? > ? ? > > ? ? -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:10:28 -0400 > From: Paul Howell > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Forgotten novelist? (Or, maybe, as Ms Vendler said, "I > never read novels.") > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 11:36 PM, David Graham > wrote: > > > A few probably discombobulated thoughts on WCW. > > > > I'd certainly agree that he's not a poet I read > primarily for his amazing > > ideas; and in fact, I find much of his critical > commentary unconvincing, > > incoherent, and just plain unclear.? For > instance, no matter how much > > Williams huffed and puffed, his statements about, say, > The Variable Foot, > > never made much sense to me.? Nor do I see him > being at all consistent when, > > for example, he read his variable foot poems > aloud.? So his theories are not > > something I've learned much from.? But yes, it is > what he does in practice > > that is amazing. > > > > Where I think I differ with Jerry is that I see him > employing all kinds of > > "emotive subject matter."? Robert Coles praises > him for more directly > > confronting "the great unmentionables" of life than > almost any other of his > > contemporaries, for instance. > > > > Sure, there's a strain in Williams where he plays the > detached > > diagnostician or word-scientist, but I also see a > raging Romantic, emoting > > wildly all over the place, often in tension with the > clinician.? His poems > > aren't any more coherent intellectually than his > critical prose, but that's > > not a negative, necessarily.? In a poem like > "Waiting" he can also be very > > subtle and delicate, emotionally, and in such poems or > passages he often > > throws out the window his theories about poems being > "machines made of > > words" and so forth.? Wonderfully so. > > > > Nor does he always avoid high rhetoric, seems to > me.? Though in the popular > > mind he's often taken as a straight populist, a > red-wheelbarrow imagist, in > > fact his poems are full of all kinds of wild > abstraction, big ideas, > > non-ordinary language, highly poetic subject matter > (flowers!? spring! nude > > women!), and so forth. > > > > Rexroth once called him a Franciscan poet.? He's > that and more, to my mind, > > large & containing several multitudes. > > > > l like the notion of an inner committee, too.? > And I'd agree that Paterson > > is more than a bit of a snooze. . . . > > > > But probably Jerry and I differ less than the above > might suggest, I > > suspect.? Sure is nice to talk poetry once in a > while, anyhow, even on this > > list. > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > > >? I've always liked Auden's idea that every poet > has not simply a code of > > practice, but an internal "committee" made up of > varying factions, > > attitudes, social tendencies, to whom every gesture in > the poem is > > addressed--which makes every poem something like what > Freud called symptoms > > and dreams: compromise formations. It's just to say > that (like the man said) > > we contain multitudes, and the energies engaged in > producing or reading > > poems aren't limitless, but coded to a set of personal > strategies, wishes, > > pleasure-and-pain systems, etc. Auden said that on > every internal committee > > there has to be a drill sergeant who thinks all poetry > is bunk. (I'd put it > > in quotes, but it's a rough recollection.) And here's > my point: to > > demonstrate how WCW is "amazing" (as he certainly > seems to me), I need to > > confront the way in which I'm amazed by minute > particulars of ordinary > > language--or should I say "ordinary" language? For me, > the sense of > > amazement comes from seeing him at work not on the > large structures of > > Paterson, but on fine gestural matters having to do > with a game of > > expectations played out on the field of a renunciatory > rhetoric--I mean by > > that that it _is_ what he renounces that makes him > great: his refusal of > > "poetic" rhetoric and subject matter, especially > emotive subject matter. > > He's always speaking both to the reader of his poem > (in a remarkably > > intimate way) and to the Drill Sergeants he's packed > his inner panel with. > > It's like watching a patient lepidopterist devote his > whole life to the > > inner workings of one dead butterfly: see, here's how > it digests its food; > > see, here's how it flies. Meanwhile, Paterson bores > me, In the American > > Grain (mostly) bores me. Williams's ideas never seemed > extraordinary, not to > > me. But that spectacle (see? you can imagine it > flying!) after many years of > > not quite getting him, now does strike me as amazing. > Practically every poet > > I'm familiar with--even Oppen, even Creeley--needed > far more tropes and > > tricks to get the language to deliver, to secure their > own distinct > > amazements. > > > > But not everyone cares to hunch over a microscopist > hunched over a bug. > > People who idolize Berryman or Ashbery or Stevens or > Bukowski are looking > > for something else, have _found_ something else. I'd > say that people who > > care about poetry enough to argue about it deserve the > amazements they're > > suited for--they've assembled their own inner > committees and deserve to get > > the best work they can out of them. There's a drunken > ex-baseball player, a > > Romanian acrobat, and an Emily Dickinson clone on > mine, along with a very > > particular drill sergeant who forty years ago once > insulted me in the mess > > hall of Lackland Air Force Base. I suspect Freud is > there, too, though > > perhaps the young cocaine-addled Freud. Somehow they > all leave room for me > > to be knocked into delight by certain ways of > patterning line endings > > against and with trajectories of meaning and sound. I > can't see why I > > shouldn't be amazed, or why anyone would object to my > pleasure. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:35:29 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > Message-ID: <4E43F6C1.8000707 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > Format="flowed" > > On 8/11/2011 6:40 AM, stephen russell wrote: > > yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his > rhetorical devices are > > sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to > Wheelbarrow, > > demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to > contradict themselves > > ... take that, Bob ... > > > > > Not sure what's to take, Stephen.? He emoted, and he > used all the > standard poetic devices well--except rhyme and meter (or > did he use > them, too--I honestly don't know).? He used unstandard > devices in > Paterson, although not to the degree that Pound used them > in the > Cantos.? He was thus mildly innovative, technically. > > Dunno what you mean by mediocrities not being able to > contradict > themselves.? They do it all the time.? Everybody > does it.? I could > probably do a thesis on contradicting, but won't.? I > think the less > mediocre you are, the more able you are to catch and mend > your > contradictions. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:59:21 -0500 > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams > Message-ID: <8AE8822F-5058-4A5D-BF38-AF49FE64BCCD at ripon.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > One thing I find remarkable about WCW is how protean he > is.? Hal has a valid point about his rejection (by > & large) of metaphor, allegory, symbol, and so > forth.? But that's just one slice of the pie, the > Objectivist/Imagist WCW.? There are about 16 other > Williamses.? > > It's notable how poets of many different stripes have > claimed Williams as major influence.? Any time you've > got poets as distinct as Lowell, Ginsberg, Bly, Levine, > Oppen, Levertov, Silliman, Blackburn, Pinsky, and Creeley > (to pick a nearly random list) all paying homage to the same > elder poet, that's something.? > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Aug 11, 2011, at 5:55 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > What I've found amazing about WCW is his directness: > his refusal to deal with this in terms of that--his > rejection (by and large) of metaphor, allegory, etc. > >? ??? > > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > > > Hal > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 07:00:23 -0800 > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine named Poet > Laureate > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 12:21 PM, > wrote: > > > It's fair to point out that Levine's journey was not > atypical for his > > generation, many of whom started out as fairly formal > poets and moved into > > free verse. > > > I was unaware of Levine being a formalist at any time, > though I don't really > think of Berryman as a formalist but rather as someone > rather outside the > mainstream. Which led me to interpret this as Levine going > the opposite > direction, from non-mainstream to decidedly mainstream. > > Of course I could have paid attention and seen Yvor Winters > in there. But > then understanding Winters and Berryman as being similar > makes my head hurt. > > I only know Berryman from the Dream Songs. > > c > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:47:31 -0400 > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi everyone, > > I wrote a short appreciate of Philip Levine over at my > blog.? Check it out > if you're so inclined. > > http://www.jeffnewberry.com/philiplevine > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them > parables; and that > is what art really is, particular stories of particular > people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate > and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 13, Issue 14 > ****************************************** > From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 13:32:30 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <1313081855.80280.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313083950.50877.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Courtesy of wikipedia: Williams tried to invent an entirely fresh form, an American form of poetry whose subject matter was centered on everyday circumstances of life and the lives of common people. He then came up with the concept of the variable foot evolved from years of visual and auditory sampling of his world from the first person perspective as a part of the day in the life as a physician. The variable foot is rooted within the multi-faceted American Idiom. This discovery was a part of his keen observation of how radio and newspaper influenced how people communicated and represents the "machine made out of words" (as he described a poem in the introduction to his book, The Wedge) just as the mechanistic motions of a city can become a consciousness. Williams didn?t use traditional meter in most of his poems. His correspondence with Hilda Doolittle also exposed him to the relationship of sapphic rhythms to the inner voice of poetic truth: "The stars about the beautiful moon again hide their radiant shapes, when she is full and shines at her brightest on all the earth"?Sappho. This is to be contrasted with a poem from Journey To Love titled "Shadows": "Shadows cast by the street light under the stars, the head is tilted back, the long shadow of the legs presumes a world taken for granted on which the cricket trills" The breaks in the poem search out a natural pause spoken in the American idiom that is also reflective of rhythms found within jazz sounds that also touch upon Sapphic harmony. Williams experimented with different types of lines and eventually found the "stepped triadic line", a long line which is divided into three segments. This line is used in Paterson and in poems like "To Elsie" and "The Ivy Crown." Here again one of Williams' aims is to show the truly American (i.e., opposed to European traditions) rhythm which is unnoticed but present in everyday American language. Stylistically, Williams worked with variations on free-form styles, notably developing and utilising the triadic line as in his lengthy love-poem Asphodel, That Greeny Flower.[8] Politics --- On Thu, 8/11/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:57 PM In Asphodel he had a name and methodology for the 3 line stanzas. I don't recall it well, or at all.? There's probably some overlap with Ginsberg, a poet William's influenced. William's may not be hugely innovative, but he's been widely imitated. . Of course, Bukowski has also had a large influence. The secret to the Buk's success isn't hard to figure out. He was a born story teller. & everyone likes a good story. --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 11:35 AM On 8/11/2011 6:40 AM, stephen russell wrote: yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical devices are sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to Wheelbarrow, demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to contradict themselves ... take that, Bob ... Not sure what's to take, Stephen.? He emoted, and he used all the standard poetic devices well--except rhyme and meter (or did he use them, too--I honestly don't know).? He used unstandard devices in Paterson, although not to the degree that Pound used them in the Cantos.? He was thus mildly innovative, technically. Dunno what you mean by mediocrities not being able to contradict themselves.? They do it all the time.? Everybody does it.? I could probably do a thesis on contradicting, but won't.? I think the less mediocre you are, the more able you are to catch and mend your contradictions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 13:33:56 2011 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:33:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <1313083072.56889.YahooMailClassic@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1313083072.56889.YahooMailClassic@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:17 PM, David Baratier wrote: > With all this talk of Patterson > I would recommend Book of the Dead > by Muriel Rukeyser > > Not sure if there is a suitable edition to read these days > mine is from the late 30's / early 40's. > > A lovely edition of *The Collected Poems of Muriel Rukeyster*, edited by > Janel E. Kaufmann and Anne E, Herzog,* *was pub. by the University of > Pittsburg Press in 2005. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 13:34:57 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams In-Reply-To: <1313083950.50877.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313084097.53718.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the tabs broke. forget the line breaks as seen below -- --- On Thu, 8/11/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 1:32 PM Courtesy of wikipedia: Williams tried to invent an entirely fresh form, an American form of poetry whose subject matter was centered on everyday circumstances of life and the lives of common people. He then came up with the concept of the variable foot evolved from years of visual and auditory sampling of his world from the first person perspective as a part of the day in the life as a physician. The variable foot is rooted within the multi-faceted American Idiom. This discovery was a part of his keen observation of how radio and newspaper influenced how people communicated and represents the "machine made out of words" (as he described a poem in the introduction to his book, The Wedge) just as the mechanistic motions of a city can become a consciousness. Williams didn?t use traditional meter in most of his poems. His correspondence with Hilda Doolittle also exposed him to the relationship of sapphic rhythms to the inner voice of poetic truth: "The stars about the beautiful moon again hide their radiant shapes, when she is full and shines at her brightest on all the earth"?Sappho. This is to be contrasted with a poem from Journey To Love titled "Shadows": "Shadows cast by the street light under the stars, the head is tilted back, the long shadow of the legs presumes a world taken for granted on which the cricket trills" The breaks in the poem search out a natural pause spoken in the American idiom that is also reflective of rhythms found within jazz sounds that also touch upon Sapphic harmony. Williams experimented with different types of lines and eventually found the "stepped triadic line", a long line which is divided into three segments. This line is used in Paterson and in poems like "To Elsie" and "The Ivy Crown." Here again one of Williams' aims is to show the truly American (i.e., opposed to European traditions) rhythm which is unnoticed but present in everyday American language. Stylistically, Williams worked with variations on free-form styles, notably developing and utilising the triadic line as in his lengthy love-poem Asphodel, That Greeny Flower.[8] Politics --- On Thu, 8/11/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 12:57 PM In Asphodel he had a name and methodology for the 3 line stanzas. I don't recall it well, or at all.? There's probably some overlap with Ginsberg, a poet William's influenced. William's may not be hugely innovative, but he's been widely imitated. . Of course, Bukowski has also had a large influence. The secret to the Buk's success isn't hard to figure out. He was a born story teller. & everyone likes a good story. --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011, 11:35 AM On 8/11/2011 6:40 AM, stephen russell wrote: yes, he did emote,? in Asphodel ... & his rhetorical devices are sly/ironic as the opening So much depends, to Wheelbarrow, demonstrates ... only the mediorce are unable to contradict themselves ... take that, Bob ... Not sure what's to take, Stephen.? He emoted, and he used all the standard poetic devices well--except rhyme and meter (or did he use them, too--I honestly don't know).? He used unstandard devices in Paterson, although not to the degree that Pound used them in the Cantos.? He was thus mildly innovative, technically. Dunno what you mean by mediocrities not being able to contradict themselves.? They do it all the time.? Everybody does it.? I could probably do a thesis on contradicting, but won't.? I think the less mediocre you are, the more able you are to catch and mend your contradictions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Aug 11 14:04:47 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:04:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] William Carlos Williams Message-ID: <26670697.1313085887706.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Thu Aug 11 17:31:44 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Final Call Monday 8/15: Transcontinental Award for 1st or 2nd books of Poetry Message-ID: <1313098304.45518.YahooMailClassic@web45607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> You can submit directly to the website at: http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/transaward.htm Here are the full guides-- -- Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award 2011 Submission Guidelines ---- --Starting in 2011 this award will be for first or second full length books-- All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published one, or more than one, volume of poetry or prose poetry. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. All writers without a full length book or those who have published only one full length book are eligible. Writers who have had a second volume of poetry and/or prose poetry under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are also eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have a Monday, August 15th, 2011, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first or second books only. If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $20.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. Entry Fee: $20 for mailed US and Canadian entries, $23 for mailed overseas entries, $27 to submit electronically (all entries, world wide). If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $27.00 via paypal to info at pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This ?editors choice? manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in December or January. Entries should be sent to: Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry 321 Empire Street Montpelier, OH 43543 All submissions must have an August 15th, 2011, or earlier, postmark. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info(at)pavementsaw.org Previous Winners Troy Bigelow: Resuscitivity Shannon Hamann: Death Doubledactyl Stan Mir: The Lacustrine Suite Justin Vicari: The Professional Weepers Jason Irwin: Watering the Dead Rachel M. Simon: Theory of Orange Kaya Oakes: Telegraph Steve Davenport: Uncontainable Noise Garin Cycholl: Blue Mound to 161 Rodney Koeneke: Rouge State Christopher Arigo: Lit interim Sophia Starnes: A commerce of Moments Daniel Zimmerman: Post Avant Jeffrey Levine: Mortal, Everlasting Dana Curtis: The Body's Response to Famine Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 09:02:53 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 Message-ID: <1313154173.87273.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 09:46:40 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 1 In-Reply-To: <1313154173.87273.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313156800.68668.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:12:46 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 3 Message-ID: <1313172766.6008.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art: London's burning. Economics: What? Art: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics. No -- Art: Do I look like a liar? Economics: Yes. But I believe you. Art: London's burning ... Economics: Who burnt London? Art: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 1 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:46 AM & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:19:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 4 Message-ID: <1313173153.41901.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Correction: The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art said to Economics: London's burning. Economics said to Art: What? Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry]3 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:12 PM The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art: London's burning. Economics: What? Art: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics. No -- Art: Do I look like a liar? Economics: Yes. But I believe you. Art: London's burning ... Economics: Who burnt London? Art: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 1 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:46 AM & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:52:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 4 In-Reply-To: <1313173153.41901.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313175129.96533.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Correction: The Streets of London ?????????????????????????????????? 8/12/20011 --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 4 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:19 PM Correction: The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art said to Economics: London's burning. Economics said to Art: What? Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry]3 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:12 PM The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art: London's burning. Economics: What? Art: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics. No -- Art: Do I look like a liar? Economics: Yes. But I believe you. Art: London's burning ... Economics: Who burnt London? Art: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 1 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:46 AM & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:46:03 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Fw: 4 Message-ID: <1313174763.12387.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> here's a Rod Smith prose piece. i envy this one: Ted's Head So there's this episode of Mary Tyler Moore where Ted's trying to get a raise &?after finagling and shenaniganizing he puts one over on Lou &?gets his contract changed to non-exclusive sos he can do commercials which is not cool w/?Lou &?the gang because Ted's just a brainless gimp &?it hurts the image of the news to have the anchorman selling tomato slicers &?dogfood so Lou gets despondent because the contract can't be rescinded but then he gets mad &?calls Ted into his office &?says, you know his voice, "You're going to stop doing commercials, Ted"?&?Ted says "why would I do that Lou?"?&?Lou says "Because if you don't I'll punch your face out"?&?Ted says "I'll have you arrested"?&?Lou says "It'll be too late, your face will be broken, you're not gonna get too many commercials with a broken face now are you Ted?"?&?Ted buckles under to force &?everybody's happy, except Ted but he's so dumb nobody cares &?everybody loves it that Lou's not despondent anymore he's back to his brustling chubby loud loveable whiskey-drinking football-loving ways. Now imagine if Ted were Lou, if Ted were the boss. You know how incredibly fucking brainless Ted is, but let's imagine he understands &?is willing to use force. That's the situation we're now in as Americans. A colossal-headed Ted Baxter is constantly threatening to punch our collective face out so we can't do our own commercials. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 4 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:19 PM Correction: The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art said to Economics: London's burning. Economics said to Art: What? Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry]3 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:12 PM The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art: London's burning. Economics: What? Art: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics. No -- Art: Do I look like a liar? Economics: Yes. But I believe you. Art: London's burning ... Economics: Who burnt London? Art: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 1 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:46 AM & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 15:45:10 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 12:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 Message-ID: <1313178310.73139.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 17:02:46 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 666 In-Reply-To: <1313178310.73139.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313182966.28961.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Lo ... ( Str ee ts ) ... ok? (around.) The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 3:45 PM The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 17:07:42 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 666 In-Reply-To: <1313182966.28961.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313183262.68216.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Lo ... ( Str ee ts ) ... ok? (around.) The entire country is burning. e ? c ???? h ??????? O ??????????? ( ?? )? nomics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 666 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 5:02 PM The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Lo ... ( Str ee ts ) ... ok? (around.) The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 3:45 PM The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 12 18:59:31 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:59:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313178310.73139.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313178310.73139.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E45B053.1070800@nut-n-but.net> On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > > The Streets of London > > 8/12/2011 > > > L > > O > > N > Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. > O ... > Economics said to Art: W N hat? > > B U R N S > > Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. > > D O W N > > Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. > Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... > > Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. > > Economics said to Art. No -- > > Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? > > Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. > > Art said to Economics: London's burning ... > > Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? > > Art said to Economics: You did. > > > I'm sure that's what Art would have said. The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 17:53:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Fw: 777 In-Reply-To: <1313174763.12387.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313185993.10124.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In Deed (maybe Smith's most recent volume),? the last sentence is omitted. (Am i (t)he only remaining humanoid? ... i can only hope. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Fw: 4 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:46 PM here's a Rod Smith prose piece. i envy this one: Ted's Head So there's this episode of Mary Tyler Moore where Ted's trying to get a raise &?after finagling and shenaniganizing he puts one over on Lou &?gets his contract changed to non-exclusive sos he can do commercials which is not cool w/?Lou &?the gang because Ted's just a brainless gimp &?it hurts the image of the news to have the anchorman selling tomato slicers &?dogfood so Lou gets despondent because the contract can't be rescinded but then he gets mad &?calls Ted into his office &?says, you know his voice, "You're going to stop doing commercials, Ted"?&?Ted says "why would I do that Lou?"?&?Lou says "Because if you don't I'll punch your face out"?&?Ted says "I'll have you arrested"?&?Lou says "It'll be too late, your face will be broken, you're not gonna get too many commercials with a broken face now are you Ted?"?&?Ted buckles under to force &?everybody's happy, except Ted but he's so dumb nobody cares &?everybody loves it that Lou's not despondent anymore he's back to his brustling chubby loud loveable whiskey-drinking football-loving ways. Now imagine if Ted were Lou, if Ted were the boss. You know how incredibly fucking brainless Ted is, but let's imagine he understands &?is willing to use force. That's the situation we're now in as Americans. A colossal-headed Ted Baxter is constantly threatening to punch our collective face out so we can't do our own commercials. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 4 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:19 PM Correction: The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art said to Economics: London's burning. Economics said to Art: What? Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry]3 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 2:12 PM The Streets of London (after Rod Smith) Art: London's burning. Economics: What? Art: You didn't hear? London's burning. Economics: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics. No -- Art: Do I look like a liar? Economics: Yes. But I believe you. Art: London's burning ... Economics: Who burnt London? Art: You did. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 1 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:46 AM & one by Rod Smith, my local D.C. favorite: An Overview Politics said to Art:? Shut up fool Art said to Politics: You are simple sand? only I can turn to glass. Politics said to Art: No money for N.E.A., or n.e.body else either Art said to Politics: 411 is a joke Politics: call 911 Art: yer mean Politics: yer me Art: If the land is to un-refrie this lance of thoughts, close, closed, & come open, should when it can?t not kill like money is a pace inside that pitbull-portico, pusshead. Politics: A replacing sterility seems to seep from your lapdog sincerity, poethead. Art: Do you think about me when you?re at work? Politics: Not even a little Art: I?m ?ona kick you Politics: with what? Art: a minimal axiomatic principle Politics: ooooh doggie, fckrs gonna kick me with a axiomatic principle. a minimal one. oooh i?m scared now. huh huh. oooo what?ll i do. axiomatic principle. snort. Art: wap Politics: ow godamnit, that was my mindnumbing codification, come here you Art: uh uh Politics: get back here you little Art: uh uhhh Politics: I?m gonna flatten yr school-headed brat frackin little crack-knit blister-snitt? Art: gotta catch me first Politics: where?d you go Art: ain?t tellin Politics: olly olly oxen freeeeee Art: Politics: come on out now Art: now why would i do that? Politics:aw shucks alrite, tell ya what i?ll give ya nice grant, come on here we can talk, you?ve heard a what they call a trust, we can get you a niiiiiccccce big one, you?re gonna like it Art: really? Politics: o yes, with a view Art: high up? you know i like to get high. up. Politics: high as you like sweetie Art: I don?t think you should be calling me sweetie, what will my sister Truth think Politics: don?t you worry about Truth, she?s taken good care of Art: did she get a grant too Politics: you might say that, a permanent one Art: wap Politics: ow goddamnit Art: can I have my grant now Politics: why sure,? just come out here where I can see ya Art: no, i want you to leave it in a brown paper bag behind the tree in the park. you know, like in the sitcoms Politics: stand up and take your grant like a man Art: uh uh Politics: how are you gonna teach me to be an art too if you stay hid like that Art: really. . .? you wanna be like me Politics: yes i really really do Art: then why you always lie about everything Politics: I was tryin to make, whatchamacallit, fiction Art: bullshit Politics: you want that grant or what Art: can I go talk to Law first Politics: oooo absolutely, I think that?s a great idea . . . Art: wap Politics: ow you little, wait?ll i get Art: gotta catch me first First presented at Georgetown University for a reading and seminar with Amiri Baraka, October 2005 . Baraka donated the title of the seminar, ?Art & Politics: An Overview.? * --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 9:02 AM 2 poems by Michael Burkard: a comtemporary/among those luminaries in my? personal top ten -- Unappreciated?Spider When the construction of such other sobbing starts When the quietness is both dim and fail dim and fail When the remembering is you against a you you do not recall When the unappreciated spider returns to her window just as a?reminder Goodbye, Goodbye, no-brainer who married Goodbye, rider of horse of sexual no?s, Goodbye, man whose face leaned between thighs and licked and wept but did not mean either enough. Goodbye, writer of antiletters and qualms. Goodbye, misnomer of he who could find a gem in a desert and now writes smart verse instead Goodbye, woman who cooks coffee until the aroma could wake the dead. ?Coffin coffee.? Goodbye, to myself. You bring out the ghost in me. Goodbye, to yourself, and all letters whose first rung is ?l? instead of the ticky ?h.? Man who slices poems, goodbye. Man who murders children, animals, women, or orders them about, more than goodbye. More than goodbye to anyone who kills the?earth. Moonlight to any kiss which is not both hello and goodbye. No, no goodbye to any kisses. Or arms. Or seas. Or hearts which have been witnessing shattered hearts too?long. Goodbye to your face, only so I can say hello to your?face. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 17:55:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <4E45B053.1070800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313186124.30051.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Perhaps. In fact, do doubt ... Thugs & so forth ... but poverty makes for dangerous collective times ... haves/haves not ... --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said.? The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 18:05:12 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <4E45B053.1070800@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and free/bees. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said.? The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 18:43:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313189023.86925.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & truth was always a problem for Laura Riding concerning poetry. If I'm to do the riots justice, I should take another look (as Bob pointed out), and get to the shit heads ... of course, a really broad perspective won't be easy. But that's when the game gets fun. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:05 PM ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and free/bees. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said.? The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 22:22:18 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 19:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313189023.86925.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313202138.7554.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... wait ...? (mildly retarded) ... I'm a CIA operative ... keep talking Bob ... --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:43 PM & truth was always a problem for Laura Riding concerning poetry. If I'm to do the riots justice, I should take another look (as Bob pointed out), and get to the shit heads ... of course, a really broad perspective won't be easy. But that's when the game gets fun. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:05 PM ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and free/bees. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said.? The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 23:03:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: including last calllllll Message-ID: <1313204611.14081.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> really ... Van Halen is a great guitarist ... & Beck ... ^ Page ... &&& ... I love pet sitting & getting drunk ... poetry ... It's all Rot ... absolute ... & this is what poets are made of ... or is it off...??? ... nO ... it's the ... wait a minute ... i need to say something about Grumman ... You ... my friend ... are A ... --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 10:22 PM ... wait ...? (mildly retarded) ... I'm a CIA operative ... keep talking Bob ... --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:43 PM & truth was always a problem for Laura Riding concerning poetry. If I'm to do the riots justice, I should take another look (as Bob pointed out), and get to the shit heads ... of course, a really broad perspective won't be easy. But that's when the game gets fun. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:05 PM ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and free/bees. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London ??????????????????????????????????? 8/12/2011 ????????????????? ????????????????? L ???????????????????? O ????????? ????????????????????????? N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. ???????????????????????????????? O ... Economics said to Art: W?? N?? hat? ????????????????????????????? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. ? ????????????????????????????? D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. ????????????????????????????????? Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said.? The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Aug 13 00:50:44 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 04:50:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E45B053.1070800@nut-n-but.net>, <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A Clockwork OrangeDate: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:05:12 -0700 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and free/bees. --- On Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: The Streets of London 8/12/2011 L O N Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. O ... Economics said to Art: W N hat? B U R N S Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. D O W N Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. Economics said to Art. No -- Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. Art said to Economics: London's burning ... Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? Art said to Economics: You did. I'm sure that's what Art would have said. The fact of the matter is that braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 02:38:32 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:38:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: <4E45B053.1070800@nut-n-but.net> <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree with the three. [rhyme] At school kids had to read a paper by a sociologist written some eight years ago. Things have been going down in England right because of a new pseudo-libertarian interpretation of life, this the English sociologist stated. She also said that it was the so-called beat generation's ideas' fault based on mutual love, friendship and generosity and understanding of psychological problems, and that their kids now instead of going to school, working, trying to build their own lives, roam around in gangs of which any passer-by is scared to death. The phenomenon stemming mainly from the central ex-industrial towns, but centered also in London. Lots of material for discussion, especially in class. On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 6:50 AM, R Dillon wrote: > A Clockwork Orange > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:05:12 -0700 > From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > > ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity of > wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are right, Bob, > most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots hunting thrills and > free/bees. > > --- On *Fri, 8/12/11, Bob Grumman * wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, August 12, 2011, 6:59 PM > > On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > > > The Streets of London > > 8/12/2011 > > > L > > O > > N > Art said to Economi D cs: London's burning. > O ... > Economics said to Art: W N hat? > > B U R N S > > Art said to Economics: You didn't hear? London's burning. > > D O W N > > Economics said to Art: That's horrible. Such a lovely city. > Buckingham Palace ... & all That ... > > Art said to Economics: Look around. The entire country is burning. > > Economics said to Art. No -- > > Art said to Economics: Do I look like a liar? > > Economics said to Art: Yes. But I believe you. > > Art said to Economics: London's burning ... > > Economics said to Art: Who burnt London? > > Art said to Economics: You did. > > > > I'm sure that's what Art would have said. The fact of the matter is that > braindead pscyhopaths burnt London. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 13 07:44:01 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:44:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313186712.26886.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E466381.5090207@nut-n-but.net> On 8/12/2011 5:05 PM, stephen russell wrote: > ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity > of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are > right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots > hunting thrills and free/bees. > One reason I visit New-Poetry and not any blog concerned with politics or religion (as a contributor) is to keep my argumentative self out of subjects people are much touchier about than they are about poetry (yes, that's possible). So I won't say more here about the absolutely insane goings-on in London. Except to confess that if I lived in London, I'd get me a nice free upgrade to my computer--and I'd be legitimate, having never been above the poverty line. I'd have trouble burning property, though. No doubt I've been brainwashed to somehow see the destruction of property others have earned similar to the destruction of my house, and my goods--namely, framed visual poems of mine and of friends of mine, and sympathize with the filthy rich parasites. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sat Aug 13 13:39:28 2011 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:39:28 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? Jared : eccolinguistics : : delete press : : reconfigurations : > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: 555 (Bob Grumman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:44:01 -0500 > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > Message-ID: <4E466381.5090207 at nut-n-but.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > On 8/12/2011 5:05 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > ... even though the poverty is relative ... it's the glaring disparity > > of wealth ... and that ugly thing called capitalism. Yeah, you are > > right, Bob, most of the punks that burnt London were mindless idiots > > hunting thrills and free/bees. > > > > One reason I visit New-Poetry and not any blog concerned with politics > or religion (as a contributor) is to keep my argumentative self out of > subjects people are much touchier about than they are about poetry (yes, > that's possible). So I won't say more here about the absolutely insane > goings-on in London. Except to confess that if I lived in London, I'd > get me a nice free upgrade to my computer--and I'd be legitimate, having > never been above the poverty line. > > I'd have trouble burning property, though. No doubt I've been > brainwashed to somehow see the destruction of property others have > earned similar to the destruction of my house, and my goods--namely, > framed visual poems of mine and of friends of mine, and sympathize with > the filthy rich parasites. > > --Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 13, Issue 17 > ****************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 13 15:11:39 2011 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 20:11:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1313262699.14285.YahooMailNeo@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> It was relatively quieter where I live, in the centre of Leicester, though on Tuesday night the wailing of sirens and the intrusive bullying noise of the police helicopter were rather hard not to notice, there was some looting and a lot of broken shop windows, while, with a kind of insurrectionary poetry, a lot of the pavement slabs were attacked by the new theatre in the heart of the 'Cultural Centre', a kind of human desert of former warehouses abandoned to conversion to unrented overpriced flats, but most of the revolt aimed no further than the contents of consumer electronics stores. I spent my time sipping tea and preparing the brochure for my local poetry group's new season. It is hard not to recall that urban rioting has been not quite unknown before in history, and that both leaders of the Coalition government and the current Mayor of London committed acts of drunken civic damage in their youth, even before they took to politics, nor is it beyond imagination that much of the damage, especially in London, involved organised gangs taking advantage of the situation to improve their stocks of i-pads. Alan Sugar should be proud of them, the dauntless entrepreneurs. I would suggest that libertarian schooling is probably not to blame as most of the rioters, with the possible exception of the odd teacher, were unlikely to have attended school often enough to have been undermined as citizens by lax education standards. And I'm rather pleased to say that people rather like the brochure I've designed. ? David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 14 01:13:47 2011 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:13:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Thoughts of Bei Dao In-Reply-To: <1313262699.14285.YahooMailNeo@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <1313262699.14285.YahooMailNeo@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313298827.5052.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> A very short report of Bei Dao's views on contemporary literature, in China and elsewhere: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-08/13/content_13107187.htm ? David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: David Bircumshaw To: NewPoetry List Sent: Saturday, 13 August 2011, 20:11 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 14 08:45:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 07:45:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E47C361.8060307@nut-n-but.net> On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > > Bob, > > All that you're saying makes sense.My wondering about it, though, is > in the human---humanist, humanitarian---way of seeing / feeling > it.Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a > confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be > more partial to your eloquence had you used "empathy" instead of > "sympathy." > > Jared > Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 16:21:11 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <4E47C361.8060307@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313353271.56790.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a (? larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: Bob, ? All that you?re saying makes sense.? My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it.? Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? ? Jared Not sure what you're saying, Jared.? In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions.? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 17:04:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: <1313353271.56790.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313355899.63337.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st century (not that anyone is keeping score).? Phillip Roth was/is ...? extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More exposure to different types of poetry?? ...? I think it's unlikely ... but who knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. But short of that ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a (? larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: Bob, ? All that you?re saying makes sense.? My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it.? Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? ? Jared Not sure what you're saying, Jared.? In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions.? --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 17:15:50 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 17:15:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: <1313355899.63337.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313353271.56790.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1313355899.63337.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't know what to make of this message. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st > century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... > extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace > (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary > point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same > funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that > probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream > poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More > exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but > who knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might > work. But short of that ... > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell *wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM > > Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after > Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger > circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s > h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle > enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates > Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead > of paintshop (much user friendly). > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman * wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM > > On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > > Bob, > > > > All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in > the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as > what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally > reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence > had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? > > > > Jared > > > > Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid > political discussions. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 17:22:56 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313356976.20797.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> there's ... lots ...? happening in poetry. It's not exhausted. With Vispo/math/computer/& audio poetics, the possibilities seem endless. I'm not sure that any other art form can say as much? ... how do we know when an art form is exhausted? I don't? know what to make of this message either ... this message is a cry for ... nah ... just a message ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:15 PM I don't know what to make of this message. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell wrote: maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but who knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. But short of that ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: Bob, All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? Jared Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 18:02:39 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:02:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: <1313356976.20797.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313356976.20797.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: . . . yes, the message is the massage. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:22 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > there's ... lots ... happening in poetry. It's not exhausted. With > Vispo/math/computer/& audio poetics, the possibilities seem endless. I'm not > sure that any other art form can say as much ... how do we know when an art > form is exhausted? I don't know what to make of this message either ... > this message is a cry for ... nah ... just a message ... > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson * wrote: > > > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... > > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:15 PM > > > I don't know what to make of this message. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, > Mainly Black, > **Obras P?blicas; > **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; > **Tango Bouquet; > **Theory of Harmony; > **Rapsodie espagnole; > **Guide to the Tokyo Subway; > **The Sonnet Project; > **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse; > **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com > > wrote: > > maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st > century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... > extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace > (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary > point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same > funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that > probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream > poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More > exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but who > knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. > But short of that ... > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell > >* wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM > > Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after > Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger > circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s > h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle > enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates > Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead > of paintshop (much user friendly). > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman > >* wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM > > On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > > Bob, > > All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in > the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as > what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally > reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence > had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? > > Jared > > > > Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid > political discussions. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 18:08:31 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313359711.1496.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> i'm in my irrational exuberance phase ... Marshall/M was giddy with the possibilities of new media ... he didn't see the gloom ... the clutter ... the waste ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:02 PM . . . yes, the message is the massage. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:22 PM, stephen russell wrote: there's ... lots ... happening in poetry. It's not exhausted. With Vispo/math/computer/& audio poetics, the possibilities seem endless. I'm not sure that any other art form can say as much ... how do we know when an art form is exhausted? I don't know what to make of this message either ... this message is a cry for ... nah ... just a message ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:15 PM I don't know what to make of this message. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell wrote: maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but who knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. But short of that ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: Bob, All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? Jared Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 18:18:01 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: <1313359711.1496.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313359711.1496.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The only problem with ebooks is that they can't be pulped. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:08 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > i'm in my irrational exuberance phase ... Marshall/M was giddy with the > possibilities of new media ... he didn't see the gloom ... the clutter ... > the waste ... > > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson * wrote: > > > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:02 PM > > > . . . yes, the message is the massage. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, > Mainly Black, > **Obras P?blicas; > **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; > **Tango Bouquet; > **Theory of Harmony; > **Rapsodie espagnole; > **Guide to the Tokyo Subway; > **The Sonnet Project; > **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse; > **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:22 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com > > wrote: > > there's ... lots ... happening in poetry. It's not exhausted. With > Vispo/math/computer/& audio poetics, the possibilities seem endless. I'm not > sure that any other art form can say as much ... how do we know when an art > form is exhausted? I don't know what to make of this message either ... this > message is a cry for ... nah ... just a message ... > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson > >* wrote: > > > From: Halvard Johnson > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... > > To: "NewPoetry List" > > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:15 PM > > > I don't know what to make of this message. > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, > Mainly Black, > **Obras P?blicas; > **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; > **Tango Bouquet; > **Theory of Harmony; > **Rapsodie espagnole; > **Guide to the Tokyo Subway; > **The Sonnet Project; > **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse; > **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com > > wrote: > > maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the > 21st century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... > extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace > (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary > point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same > funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that > probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream > poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More > exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but who > knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. > But short of that ... > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell > >* wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM > > Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after > Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger > circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s > h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle > enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates > Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead > of paintshop (much user friendly). > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman > >* wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM > > On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: > > Bob, > > All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in > the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as > what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally > reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence > had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? > > Jared > > > > Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid > political discussions. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 18:42:14 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313361734.87117.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> not sure if I've read one. I've read a book, an abook. Ebooks, maybe not so bad an idea, but I'm Eliterate. --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:18 PM The only problem with ebooks is that they can't be pulped. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 6:08 PM, stephen russell wrote: i'm in my irrational exuberance phase ... Marshall/M was giddy with the possibilities of new media ... he didn't see the gloom ... the clutter ... the waste ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 6:02 PM . . . yes, the message is the massage. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:22 PM, stephen russell wrote: there's ... lots ... happening in poetry. It's not exhausted. With Vispo/math/computer/& audio poetics, the possibilities seem endless. I'm not sure that any other art form can say as much ... how do we know when an art form is exhausted? I don't know what to make of this message either ... this message is a cry for ... nah ... just a message ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Roth/D Foster Wallace/fiction ... poetics ... To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 5:15 PM I don't know what to make of this message. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, stephen russell wrote: maybe poetry will regain the lead (as an art form/not just lit) in the 21st century (not that anyone is keeping score). Phillip Roth was/is ... extremely pessimistic about the future of the novel. David Foster Wallace (studied philosohpy of math in grad school) didn't share Roth's literary point of view. Sadly, Wallace is gone. Poetry doesn't seem to be in the same funk as fiction, but, of course, it lacks a large readership. & that probably won't change. Most people don't know what to make of mainstream poetry let alone the innovative. Would a broader view change matters? More exposure to different types of poetry? ... I think it's unlikely ... but who knows. If it were taught in grade school by an advocate ... that might work. But short of that ... --- On Sun, 8/14/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 4:21 PM Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:45 AM On 8/13/2011 12:39 PM, Jared Schickling wrote: Bob, All that you?re saying makes sense. My wondering about it, though, is in the human?humanist, humanitarian?way of seeing / feeling it. Insofar as what's happening is a reasonable consequence to a confluence of equally reasonable events and conditions, I would be more partial to your eloquence had you used ?empathy? instead of ?sympathy.? Jared Not sure what you're saying, Jared. In any case, I'm trying to avoid political discussions. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 14 20:30:26 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 19:30:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313353271.56790.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313353271.56790.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net> On 8/14/2011 3:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple > (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within > a ( larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting > cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & > perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A > math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems > getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). > Sounds fun. I don't do nothin' graphic in word, but jpeg converts once done in paintshop. I think where to go with Venn poetry would be surrealistic overlaps. Having said that, I can't think of an example, even a bad one. As for, from a different post of yours, the novel dying, I can't see it. Nor poetry. There's the crucial importance of abstraction--experiencing reality sensually /and/ abstractly. Crucial for art and science. I don't see any way of making serious poetry popular. As I've always said, it's like classical music or superior jazz or ballet or mathematics. The only problem is getting people able to appreciate it to try it! Which means, among other things, every once in a while giving a lot of money to a person making it (because the media only pays attention to things people get a lot of money for). Maybe I've said things like this before? Meanwhile, I just had a one-man show at my local library, and drew four or five people to it, two of whom actually discussed any of the items in it. Poeticks.com has photographs of it. It wasn'r really a one-man show, but 17 or my 18 framed works hung in an event with many other tables for authors (and non-authors) celebrating the library's 50th anniversary. It made me think about why nobody was drawn to it. Two thoughts on that: (1) I did nothing to promote it, like running around in a costume with visual poems on it--after getting the library to hang a few of my accessible poems up in advance (and I do have a few) and (2) creating a "lesson in visual poetry" like the one I've started work on which will consist of seven or eight posters, each showing some detail of the poem they are about, with commentary I attempt to make entertaining with personal comments, little jokes but also solid poetics; the whole idea would be to take someone encountering the work through the poem step by step. I hope to have it soon at my blog. First I have to separate the purely graphic matter from the textual matter overlaid on it, which will take a while. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 19:40:20 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yes, I saw the ripples piece on your blog. & enjoyed the others you critiqued, especially the i dotted with a finger print. I once had a poem that ended ... & there it is, a thumb print/how perfectly representational/ yet how oddly abstract. Perhaps people don't so much fear the new, they simply lack the vocabulary to understand (that's my tolerant self speaking). My bitter self would be just as correct by saying that most people do fear the new. I've only started looking at some of the new poetics. My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:30 PM On 8/14/2011 3:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a (? larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user friendly). Sounds fun.? I don't do nothin' graphic in word, but jpeg converts once done in paintshop.? I think where to go with Venn poetry would be surrealistic overlaps.? Having said that, I can't think of an example, even a bad one.? As for, from a different post of yours, the novel dying, I can't see it.? Nor poetry.? There's the crucial importance of abstraction--experiencing reality sensually and abstractly.? Crucial for art and science.? I don't see any way of making serious poetry popular.? As I've always said, it's like classical music or superior jazz or ballet or mathematics.? The only problem is getting people able to appreciate it to try it!? Which means, among other things, every once in a while giving a lot of money to a person making it (because the media only pays attention to things people get a lot of money for).? Maybe I've said things like this before? Meanwhile, I just had a one-man show at my local library, and drew four or five people to it, two of whom actually discussed any of the items in it.? Poeticks.com has photographs of it.? It wasn'r really a one-man show, but 17 or my 18 framed works hung in an event with many other tables for authors (and non-authors) celebrating the library's 50th anniversary.? It made me think about why nobody was drawn to it.? Two thoughts on that: (1) I did nothing to promote it, like running around in a costume with visual poems on it--after getting the library to hang a few of my accessible poems up in advance (and I do have a few) and (2) creating a "lesson in visual poetry" like the one I've started work on which will consist of seven or eight posters, each showing some detail of the poem they are about, with commentary I attempt to make entertaining with personal comments, little jokes but also solid poetics; the whole idea would be to take someone encountering the work through the poem step by step.? I hope to have it soon at my blog.? First I have to separate the purely graphic matter from the textual matter overlaid on it, which will take a while. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 14 22:16:10 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:16:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine interview Message-ID: <22F57A79-22C5-4087-9FE0-AFDDD4946D31@ripon.edu> I like what Philip Levine says about "absolute truth, not the accidental truth"-- http://www.npr.org/2011/08/14/139576125/new-poet-laureate-philip-levines-absolute-truth A good deal of the commentary on Levine's work, early to late, has assumed that he's a kind of documentarian, and that his work is essentially confessional. In interviews down through the years he's often corrected that assumption, yet it persists. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 03:45:52 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:45:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net> <1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: monochromes in art, already outdated, sigh... Kazimir Malevich, the Suprematist On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:40 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Yes, I saw the ripples piece on your blog. & enjoyed the others you > critiqued, especially the i dotted with a finger print. I once had a poem > that ended ... & there it is, a thumb print/how perfectly > representational/ yet how oddly abstract. Perhaps people don't so much > fear the new, they simply lack the vocabulary to understand (that's my > tolerant self speaking). My bitter self would be just as correct by saying > that most people do fear the new. I've only started looking at some of the > new poetics. My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a > blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman * wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:30 PM > > > On 8/14/2011 3:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple (after > Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( larger > circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s > h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle > enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates > Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead > of paintshop (much user friendly). > > Sounds fun. I don't do nothin' graphic in word, but jpeg converts once > done in paintshop. I think where to go with Venn poetry would be > surrealistic overlaps. Having said that, I can't think of an example, even > a bad one. > > As for, from a different post of yours, the novel dying, I can't see it. > Nor poetry. There's the crucial importance of abstraction--experiencing > reality sensually *and* abstractly. Crucial for art and science. > > I don't see any way of making serious poetry popular. As I've always said, > it's like classical music or superior jazz or ballet or mathematics. The > only problem is getting people able to appreciate it to try it! Which > means, among other things, every once in a while giving a lot of money to a > person making it (because the media only pays attention to things people get > a lot of money for). Maybe I've said things like this before? > > Meanwhile, I just had a one-man show at my local library, and drew four or > five people to it, two of whom actually discussed any of the items in it. > Poeticks.com has photographs of it. It wasn'r really a one-man show, but 17 > or my 18 framed works hung in an event with many other tables for authors > (and non-authors) celebrating the library's 50th anniversary. It made me > think about why nobody was drawn to it. Two thoughts on that: (1) I did > nothing to promote it, like running around in a costume with visual poems on > it--after getting the library to hang a few of my accessible poems up in > advance (and I do have a few) and (2) creating a "lesson in visual poetry" > like the one I've started work on which will consist of seven or eight > posters, each showing some detail of the poem they are about, with > commentary I attempt to make entertaining with personal comments, little > jokes but also solid poetics; the whole idea would be to take someone > encountering the work through the poem step by step. > > I hope to have it soon at my blog. First I have to separate the purely > graphic matter from the textual matter overlaid on it, which will take a > while. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 07:10:47 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:10:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net><1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E48FEB7.9080803@nut-n-but.net> On 8/15/2011 2:45 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > monochromes in art, already outdated, sigh... > Kazimir Malevich, the Suprematist > > Not following, Anny. --Bob > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:40 AM, stephen russell > > > wrote: > > Yes, I saw the ripples piece on your blog. & enjoyed the others > you critiqued, especially the i dotted with a finger print. I once > had a poem that ended ...& there it is, a thumb print/how > perfectly representational/ yet how oddly abstract. Perhaps people > don't so much fear the new, they simply lack the vocabulary to > understand (that's my tolerant self speaking). My bitter self > would be just as correct by saying that most people do fear the > new. I've only started looking at some of the new poetics. My > excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank > page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? > > --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman / >/* wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > > Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:30 PM > > > On 8/14/2011 3:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: >> Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very >> simple (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) >> enclosed within a ( larger circle ): the pond. & a tear >> between the intersecting cirles, the s p l a s h. Text for >> all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle >> enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that >> approximates Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems >> getting it done in word instead of paintshop (much user >> friendly). >> > Sounds fun. I don't do nothin' graphic in word, but jpeg > converts once done in paintshop. I think where to go with > Venn poetry would be surrealistic overlaps. Having said that, > I can't think of an example, even a bad one. > > As for, from a different post of yours, the novel dying, I > can't see it. Nor poetry. There's the crucial importance of > abstraction--experiencing reality sensually /and/ abstractly. > Crucial for art and science. > > I don't see any way of making serious poetry popular. As I've > always said, it's like classical music or superior jazz or > ballet or mathematics. The only problem is getting people > able to appreciate it to try it! Which means, among other > things, every once in a while giving a lot of money to a > person making it (because the media only pays attention to > things people get a lot of money for). Maybe I've said things > like this before? > > Meanwhile, I just had a one-man show at my local library, and > drew four or five people to it, two of whom actually discussed > any of the items in it. Poeticks.com has photographs of it. > It wasn'r really a one-man show, but 17 or my 18 framed works > hung in an event with many other tables for authors (and > non-authors) celebrating the library's 50th anniversary. It > made me think about why nobody was drawn to it. Two thoughts > on that: (1) I did nothing to promote it, like running around > in a costume with visual poems on it--after getting the > library to hang a few of my accessible poems up in advance > (and I do have a few) and (2) creating a "lesson in visual > poetry" like the one I've started work on which will consist > of seven or eight posters, each showing some detail of the > poem they are about, with commentary I attempt to make > entertaining with personal comments, little jokes but also > solid poetics; the whole idea would be to take someone > encountering the work through the poem step by step. > > I hope to have it soon at my blog. First I have to separate > the purely graphic matter from the textual matter overlaid on > it, which will take a while. > > --Bob > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 07:59:54 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:59:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: <4E48FEB7.9080803@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net> <1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E48FEB7.9080803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Sorry, my reference was Stephen Russell's: "My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? " To which I can add 'white on white' by Malevich, the absolute breaking point. On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/15/2011 2:45 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > monochromes in art, already outdated, sigh... > Kazimir Malevich, the Suprematist > > > > > Not following, Anny. > > --Bob > > > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:40 AM, stephen russell < > poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Yes, I saw the ripples piece on your blog. & enjoyed the others you >> critiqued, especially the i dotted with a finger print. I once had a poem >> that ended ... & there it is, a thumb print/how perfectly >> representational/ yet how oddly abstract. Perhaps people don't so much >> fear the new, they simply lack the vocabulary to understand (that's my >> tolerant self speaking). My bitter self would be just as correct by saying >> that most people do fear the new. I've only started looking at some of the >> new poetics. My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a >> blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? >> >> --- On *Sun, 8/14/11, Bob Grumman * wrote: >> >> >> From: Bob Grumman >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 8:30 PM >> >> >> On 8/14/2011 3:21 PM, stephen russell wrote: >> >> Bob, they let me out of rehab to do a math poem: It's very simple >> (after Basho). A Ven diagram. The frog: (small cirle) enclosed within a ( >> larger circle ): the pond. & a tear between the intersecting cirles, the s p >> l a s h. Text for all 3 words: frog/pond/splash. & perhaps a larger circle >> enclosing the 2 smaller circles: Universe. A math poem that approximates >> Basho's vision ... But I'm having problems getting it done in word instead >> of paintshop (much user friendly). >> >> Sounds fun. I don't do nothin' graphic in word, but jpeg converts once >> done in paintshop. I think where to go with Venn poetry would be >> surrealistic overlaps. Having said that, I can't think of an example, even >> a bad one. >> >> As for, from a different post of yours, the novel dying, I can't see it. >> Nor poetry. There's the crucial importance of abstraction--experiencing >> reality sensually *and* abstractly. Crucial for art and science. >> >> I don't see any way of making serious poetry popular. As I've always >> said, it's like classical music or superior jazz or ballet or mathematics. >> The only problem is getting people able to appreciate it to try it! Which >> means, among other things, every once in a while giving a lot of money to a >> person making it (because the media only pays attention to things people get >> a lot of money for). Maybe I've said things like this before? >> >> Meanwhile, I just had a one-man show at my local library, and drew four or >> five people to it, two of whom actually discussed any of the items in it. >> Poeticks.com has photographs of it. It wasn'r really a one-man show, but 17 >> or my 18 framed works hung in an event with many other tables for authors >> (and non-authors) celebrating the library's 50th anniversary. It made me >> think about why nobody was drawn to it. Two thoughts on that: (1) I did >> nothing to promote it, like running around in a costume with visual poems on >> it--after getting the library to hang a few of my accessible poems up in >> advance (and I do have a few) and (2) creating a "lesson in visual poetry" >> like the one I've started work on which will consist of seven or eight >> posters, each showing some detail of the poem they are about, with >> commentary I attempt to make entertaining with personal comments, little >> jokes but also solid poetics; the whole idea would be to take someone >> encountering the work through the poem step by step. >> >> I hope to have it soon at my blog. First I have to separate the purely >> graphic matter from the textual matter overlaid on it, which will take a >> while. >> >> --Bob >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 11:19:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:19:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 555 In-Reply-To: References: <4E4868A2.5030000@nut-n-but.net><1313365220.70386.YahooMailClassic@web161905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E48FEB7.9080803@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E4938E7.3080509@nut-n-but.net> On 8/15/2011 6:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Sorry, my reference was Stephen Russell's: "My excuse is simply that I > fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as > beautiful as a blank page? " > To which I can add 'white on white' by Malevich, the absolute breaking > point. All right, I'll let it go this time. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 12:26:54 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 555 Message-ID: <1313425614.684.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> You're getting soft, Grumman ... no mercy. ATTACK! --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:19 AM On 8/15/2011 6:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Sorry, my reference was Stephen Russell's: "My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? " > To which I can add 'white on white' by Malevich, the absolute breaking point. All right, I'll let it go this time. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 13:17:28 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 19:17:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 555 In-Reply-To: <1313425614.684.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313425614.684.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey hey hey.... On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:26 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > You're getting soft, Grumman ... no mercy. ATTACK! > > > --- On *Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman * wrote: > > > From: Bob Grumman > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:19 AM > > > On 8/15/2011 6:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Sorry, my reference was Stephen Russell's: "My excuse is simply that I > fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as beautiful as > a blank page? " > > To which I can add 'white on white' by Malevich, the absolute breaking > point. > All right, I'll let it go this time. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 13:27:40 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 555 In-Reply-To: <1313425614.684.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313429260.25336.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Wait ... I'm confused ... poetry? ... or college football? ... am I in Oklahoma, or Tallahassee? --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Re: 555 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 12:26 PM You're getting soft, Grumman ... no mercy. ATTACK! --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 555 To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:19 AM On 8/15/2011 6:59 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Sorry, my reference was Stephen Russell's: "My excuse is simply that I fear internet clutter, and prefer a blank page. Is anything as beautiful as a blank page? " > To which I can add 'white on white' by Malevich, the absolute breaking point. All right, I'll let it go this time. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 15 15:09:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 15:09:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Altitude training pays off... Message-ID: <8CE2995F21F154A-1258-52D@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2011/08/14/Denver-team-wins-National-Poetry-Slam/UPI-54181313349979/?spt=hs&or=en BOSTON, Aug. 14 (UPI) -- A team from Denver was declared the winner of the National Poetry slam Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htthinc at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 16:57:29 2011 From: htthinc at gmail.com (Paul Howell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:57:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bly's new book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool. Also greatly admired by Donald Sheehan. Now, who said, "...without evasion by a single metaphor...", And as for the ghazal, look at Friedrich Rueckert (maybe a poet Bly has translated?) On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:01 PM, David Graham wrote: > Article and interview with Robert Bly about his new collection, *Talking > into the Ear of A Donkey*, including sample poems and audio, from Minnesota > Public Radio: > > http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/07/28/robert-bly/ > > If you like Bly, I think you'll find this new book a delight. He gets > stranger with every year, I think. And I agree with Garrison Keillor, > quoted in the above piece: > > "Bly has another friend and fan in Garrison Keillor, the host of the public > radio program "A Prairie Home Companion." Keillor describes Bly as a > mystical lyrical poet. > > "'He has written some of his best poems past the age of 70, and 75 and 80,' > Keillor said recently. 'He has been a daring and productive writer in his > old age, and to me this is brave and elegant and just completely > admirable.'" > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Aug 15 17:00:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:00:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite Message-ID: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Perhaps you were wondering what it would be like if William Logan were not actually a smart guy, and didn't know much about contemporary American poetry, and also couldn't write very well. But also had plenty of bile and still was in love with himself. Your prayers have been answered: Anis Shivani is apparently trying like hell to take over the title of Poetry Hatchet Man. Without, you know, knowing anything. . . . Watch him huff and puff here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/philip-levine_b_925788.html "The truth about American poetry is that it is in very bad shape. The professional poetry establishment has taken care to mark serious criticism coming its way as sour grapes, but the quality of poetry being produced by American poets regularly awarded the highest prizes in the land and recognized as the equals of past masters is not meant to last this pathetic moment of self-absorption and lassitude. One reads Sharon Olds, Jorie Graham, Louise Gl?ck, Philip Levine, and their camp followers to come away diminished, as a reader and as a human being. Their very project is to participate--as the front guard of a regressive political elite--in the annihilation of common decency at all levels. Their poetry is garish, troublingly content-free, indecorous, and emotionless. Readers are smart not to read this trash." That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. Oh, and did he he just call Olds and Levine "emotionless"? Uh huh. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 17:05:55 2011 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:05:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Hasn't he written a couple of MFA-bashing articles on HuffPo, as well? --Jeff Newberry On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:00 PM, David Graham wrote: > Perhaps you were wondering what it would be like if William Logan were not > actually a smart guy, and didn't know much about contemporary American > poetry, and also couldn't write very well. But also had plenty of bile and > still was in love with himself. > > Your prayers have been answered: Anis Shivani is apparently trying like > hell to take over the title of Poetry Hatchet Man. Without, you know, > knowing anything. . . . > > Watch him huff and puff here: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/philip-levine_b_925788.html > > "The truth about American poetry is that it is in very bad shape. The > professional poetry establishment has taken care to mark serious criticism > coming its way as sour grapes, but the quality of poetry being produced by > American poets regularly awarded the highest prizes in the land and > recognized as the equals of past masters is not meant to last this pathetic > moment of self-absorption and lassitude. > > One reads Sharon Olds, Jorie Graham, Louise Gl?ck, Philip Levine, and their > camp followers to come away diminished, as a reader and as a human being. > Their very project is to participate--as the front guard of a regressive > political elite--in the annihilation of common decency at all levels. Their > poetry is garish, troublingly content-free, indecorous, and emotionless. > Readers are smart not to read this trash." > That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start > with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell Levine has > ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be > indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. > > Oh, and did he he just call Olds and Levine "emotionless"? Uh huh. . . . > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 15 17:12:06 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE29A71F032AD1-C28-248F@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> Shivani is a moron. And a moron who feels compelled to defend himself if you read down into the comment part of the page (in fact if you look hard enough you will find a comment by the notorious Wilshberian Al Maginnes). -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:06 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite Hasn't he written a couple of MFA-bashing articles on HuffPo, as well? --Jeff Newberry On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:00 PM, David Graham wrote: Perhaps you were wondering what it would be like if William Logan were not actually a smart guy, and didn't know much about contemporary American poetry, and also couldn't write very well. But also had plenty of bile and still was in love with himself. Your prayers have been answered: Anis Shivani is apparently trying like hell to take over the title of Poetry Hatchet Man. Without, you know, knowing anything. . . . Watch him huff and puff here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/philip-levine_b_925788.html "The truth about American poetry is that it is in very bad shape. The professional poetry establishment has taken care to mark serious criticism coming its way as sour grapes, but the quality of poetry being produced by American poets regularly awarded the highest prizes in the land and recognized as the equals of past masters is not meant to last this pathetic moment of self-absorption and lassitude. One reads Sharon Olds, Jorie Graham, Louise Gl?ck, Philip Levine, and their camp followers to come away diminished, as a reader and as a human being. Their very project is to participate--as the front guard of a regressive political elite--in the annihilation of common decency at all levels. Their poetry is garish, troublingly content-free, indecorous, and emotionless. Readers are smart not to read this trash." That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. Oh, and did he he just call Olds and Levine "emotionless"? Uh huh. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 21:22:03 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:22:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E49C63B.2090403@nut-n-but.net> On 8/15/2011 4:00 PM, David Graham wrote: > Perhaps you were wondering what it would be like if William Logan were > not actually a smart guy, and didn't know much about contemporary > American poetry, and also couldn't write very well. But also had > plenty of bile and still was in love with himself. > > Your prayers have been answered: Anis Shivani is apparently trying > like hell to take over the title of Poetry Hatchet Man. Without, you > know, knowing anything. . . . > I'm sure he can't know less about contemporary poetry than Logan does. > Watch him huff and puff here: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/philip-levine_b_925788.html > > "The truth about American poetry is that it is in very bad shape. The > professional poetry establishment has taken care to mark serious > criticism coming its way as sour grapes, but the quality of poetry > being produced by American poets regularly awarded the highest prizes > in the land and recognized as the equals of past masters is not meant > to last this pathetic moment of self-absorption and lassitude. > > One reads Sharon Olds, Jorie Graham, Louise Gl?ck, Philip Levine, and > their camp followers to come away diminished, as a reader and as a > human being. Their very project is to participate--as the front guard > of a regressive political elite--in the annihilation of common decency > at all levels. Their poetry is garish, troublingly content-free, > indecorous, and emotionless. Readers are smart not to read this trash." > > That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start > with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell > Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, Levine, like Jorie Graham, composes Wilshberian poetry exclusively. This means he does nothing of consequence in his poetry that wasn't--but, hey, you know the spiel, David. Think of it in terms of painters--connoiseurs will be able to find all kinds of differences between the old masters--Raphael, Leonardo, Botticelli (who is probably as different from Raphael as Levine is different from Jorie Graham), etc. Then think of the differences between all the old masters and all the abstract-expressionists. I know--to you, there's no equivalent in contemporary poetry of the abstract-expressionists. > I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* > being emotionless. > > Oh, and did he he just call Olds and Levine "emotionless"? Uh huh. . . . > In the two paragraphs you quote, David, he does seem like the moron Al calls him. Even insane. I'll have to read what he wrote. I think I may already have lashed out at him myself. Maybe it was someone else at the Huffington Post. I've now checked. Yes, I hacked away at him for some list of poets he didn't like. No doubt I got hacked back here for it. As for his latest, I couldn't read it--toomuch absolute crap. All he cares about is subject matter, and a poet's ideas about his subject matter. A key sentence from his piece for me is "Where do poets of broad imagination, genuine classical mooring, wit and irony and humor, and sympathy across the class lines come from?" In other words, he's as limited a critic as David Orr, and may be a worse critic than Logan, although he seems to know the same poets Logan does. In fact, he's worse--I never failed to read anything by Logan all the way through--and have often enjoyed what I read. I love the fact that Shivani is blasting poets I think have over-inflated reputations, but that he thinks they are all we have is ridiculous. Yes, he's a moron--although not really quite insane. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 21:29:35 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:29:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E49C7FF.8040407@nut-n-but.net> "Their poetry is garish, troublingly content-free . . ." I forgot to mention that "content-free"--a real gem. For critics like Shivani only content he approves of counts as content. I'm surprised he isn't claiming these poets are not writing poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 21:37:08 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:37:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E49C9C4.9070600@nut-n-but.net> On 8/15/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Hasn't he written a couple of MFA-bashing articles on HuffPo, as well? > > --Jeff Newberry . He has a book out about that. So, tell me, Jeff, is this bird worse even than I? I don't think Jorie Graham is all bad, and I do think Levine is among our better poets, just not up there with the best moderns (Stevens, Frost, Cummings, Roethke, Eliot, Pound, Yeats, Dylan Thomas . . .). Or the best poets in my crowd (Beining, Kempton, John M. Bennett, Ernst, Helmes, Coolidge, Stetser, Martone . . .) I wonder if Shivani would like to borrow "Wilshberia" from me. He doesn't seem to like it much. I think many good poets and a few excellent ones live there; he doesn't seem to agree. --Bob From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 15 20:56:02 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <4E49C9C4.9070600@nut-n-but.net> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> <4E49C9C4.9070600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE29C6674AC7BD-C28-535D@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 8:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite On 8/15/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Hasn't he written a couple of MFA-bashing articles on HuffPo, as well? > > --Jeff Newberry . He has a book out about that. So, tell me, Jeff, is this bird worse even than I? I don't think Jorie Graham is all bad, and I do think Levine is among our better poets, just not up there with the best moderns (Stevens, Frost, Cummings, Roethke, Eliot, Pound, Yeats, Dylan Thomas . . .). Or the best poets in my crowd (Beining, Kempton, John M. Bennett, Ernst, Helmes, Coolidge, Stetser, Martone . . .) I wonder if Shivani would like to borrow "Wilshberia" from me. He doesn't seem to like it much. I think many good poets and a few excellent ones live there; he doesn't seem to agree. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 15 22:26:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 21:26:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <8CE29C6674AC7BD-C28-535D@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu>< 4E49C9C4.9070600@nut-n-but.net> <8CE29C6674AC7BD-C28-535D@webmail-d078.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E49D549.7010901@nut-n-but.net> On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?! What?! Why you dethpicable $#!!?%. (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.) But thanks, Al, for the above and the below. I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. > And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are > capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, > from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors. Surely he can't dislike them all. Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 21:39:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <4E49D549.7010901@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313458756.27763.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ... no clear aesthetic ... where do these people come from? ... why so much misplaced passion directed at poetry? ... why can't bad critics go into politics where they belong? ... I appreciate critics who've done their homework, especially working poets who happen to be critics. Bob, for one. Harold Bloom is also very good, though he's limited. Still, the guy's an excellent scholar. Bob doesn't care for Bloom because of his limitations. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26 PM On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?!? What?!? Why you dethpicable $#!!?%.? (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.)? But thanks, Al, for the above and the below.? I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors.? Surely he can't dislike them all.? Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 21:41:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313458756.27763.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313458919.34095.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I don't mean to suggest that Bloom is a poet. He's admitted to being a failed writer. But he does love poetry, and the man is a scholar. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:39 PM ... no clear aesthetic ... where do these people come from? ... why so much misplaced passion directed at poetry? ... why can't bad critics go into politics where they belong? ... I appreciate critics who've done their homework, especially working poets who happen to be critics. Bob, for one. Harold Bloom is also very good, though he's limited. Still, the guy's an excellent scholar. Bob doesn't care for Bloom because of his limitations. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26 PM On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?!? What?!? Why you dethpicable $#!!?%.? (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.)? But thanks, Al, for the above and the below.? I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors.? Surely he can't dislike them all.? Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 23:14:59 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313458919.34095.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313464499.58841.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> On the other hand, bad critics such as Shivani do serve a purpose. At least, for whatever reason, they read, and generate comments ... clarity emerges. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell < --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:41 PM I don't mean to suggest that Bloom is a poet. He's admitted to being a failed writer. But he does love poetry, and the man is a scholar. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:39 PM ... no clear aesthetic ... where do these people come from? ... why so much misplaced passion directed at poetry? ... why can't bad critics go into politics where they belong? ... I appreciate critics who've done their homework, especially working poets who happen to be critics. Bob, for one. Harold Bloom is also very good, though he's limited. Still, the guy's an excellent scholar. Bob doesn't care for Bloom because of his limitations. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26 PM On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?!? What?!? Why you dethpicable $#!!?%.? (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.)? But thanks, Al, for the above and the below.? I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors.? Surely he can't dislike them all.? Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 23:18:28 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313464499.58841.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313464708.24987.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I forgot the comma behind Shivani. Please insert it. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:14 PM On the other hand, bad critics such as Shivani do serve a purpose. At least, for whatever reason, they read, and generate comments ... clarity emerges. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell < --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:41 PM I don't mean to suggest that Bloom is a poet. He's admitted to being a failed writer. But he does love poetry, and the man is a scholar. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:39 PM ... no clear aesthetic ... where do these people come from? ... why so much misplaced passion directed at poetry? ... why can't bad critics go into politics where they belong? ... I appreciate critics who've done their homework, especially working poets who happen to be critics. Bob, for one. Harold Bloom is also very good, though he's limited. Still, the guy's an excellent scholar. Bob doesn't care for Bloom because of his limitations. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26 PM On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?!? What?!? Why you dethpicable $#!!?%.? (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.)? But thanks, Al, for the above and the below.? I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors.? Surely he can't dislike them all.? Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 23:27:44 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313464708.24987.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313465264.42216.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I also forgot the comma behind bad critics. Please insert. Do this, and the world will be complete again. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:18 PM I forgot the comma behind Shivani. Please insert it. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 11:14 PM On the other hand, bad critics such as Shivani do serve a purpose. At least, for whatever reason, they read, and generate comments ... clarity emerges. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell < --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:41 PM I don't mean to suggest that Bloom is a poet. He's admitted to being a failed writer. But he does love poetry, and the man is a scholar. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:39 PM ... no clear aesthetic ... where do these people come from? ... why so much misplaced passion directed at poetry? ... why can't bad critics go into politics where they belong? ... I appreciate critics who've done their homework, especially working poets who happen to be critics. Bob, for one. Harold Bloom is also very good, though he's limited. Still, the guy's an excellent scholar. Bob doesn't care for Bloom because of his limitations. --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 10:26 PM On 8/15/2011 7:56 PM, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: He's worse than you, Bob, because we all like you. What?!? What?!? Why you dethpicable $#!!?%.? (I'm visualizing myself as Popeye, the Sailor man.)? But thanks, Al, for the above and the below.? I do try not to be obnoxious all the time--except to Anny, and we all know she deserves it. And because, when you climb down off your pet hobbyhorses, you are capable of real insight about poetry. Shivani is just a hustler who, from what I can tell, has no clear aesthetic. I really am curious if there are any living poets he favors.? Surely he can't dislike them all.? Although I trade insults at HLAS, where I argue the Shakespeare Authorship Question with an Irishman who sincerely believes nobody has written any good poetry since Shakespeare . . . I mean, the 17th Earl of Oxford. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Aug 16 02:22:28 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:22:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:00 PM, David Graham wrote: > That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. > Well, they are both Wilshberian right? c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 02:42:48 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313476968.65185.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The guy is paid to toss around bile. Or so it seems. Y waste time ... even though I enjoy keeping up on the latest ... & will keep reading ... that's what I do ... read ... --- On Tue, 8/16/11, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 2:22 AM On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:00 PM, David Graham wrote: That's just the first two paragraphs. ?You hardly know where to start with such stuff. ?Let's see: ?aside from wondering what the hell Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. ? Well, they are both Wilshberian right? c -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 02:58:58 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313476968.65185.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313477938.73174.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Go to his sponsers. What's their agenda? --- On Tue, 8/16/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 2:42 AM The guy is paid to toss around bile. Or so it seems. Y waste time ... even though I enjoy keeping up on the latest ... & will keep reading ... that's what I do ... read ... --- On Tue, 8/16/11, Chris Lott wrote: From: Chris Lott Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan lite To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 2:22 AM On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:00 PM, David Graham wrote: That's just the first two paragraphs. ?You hardly know where to start with such stuff. ?Let's see: ?aside from wondering what the hell Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. ? Well, they are both Wilshberian right? c -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Aug 16 07:07:29 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 06:07:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: References: <9810DD94-E7FB-453F-B6D4-AD52E2F7C054@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E4A4F71.4070905@nut-n-but.net> On 8/16/2011 1:22 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Aug 15, 2011, at 1:00 PM, David Graham > wrote: > >> That's just the first two paragraphs. You hardly know where to start >> with such stuff. Let's see: aside from wondering what the hell >> Levine has ever had in common with Jorie Graham, I'm also wondering >> how one can be indecorous and garish while *also* being emotionless. >> > > Well, they are both Wilshberian right? > > c . Good, Chris--unless you cheated by reading my post about it. Yes, there can be a lot of differences between chemists--one can be an organic chemist, the other an inorganic chemist, for example; but when you're considering scientists, they are importantly alike. Although it takes a taxonomical kind of mind to realize it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Tue Aug 16 10:53:32 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:53:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Jorie Graham Message-ID: <27F4A35E-B2BC-402E-9D56-DEEF74A7E0F1@ripon.edu> As I think I mentioned a couple weeks ago, Robin Chapman has been featuring a series of my poems on her Poem a Day blog. Some older, some newer. Here's the latest one: http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/by-david-graham-scotch-movies-i-like-to.html And the earlier ones, in case of interest: "Sea Turtle." http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/07/by-david-graham-sea-turtle-deep-in-your.html "Between Classes." http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/by-david-graham-between-classes-theres.html "On Finding My Father Still in my Address Book." http://robinchapmanspoemaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/by-david-graham-on-finding-my-father.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 16 11:00:13 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:00:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine Message-ID: Dorianne Laux on Philip Levine as teacher: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/lauxmine.html From Ed Byrne's *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, just reposted as the Poem of the Week. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Tue Aug 16 12:11:07 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 08:11:07 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan lite In-Reply-To: <1313477938.73174.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313476968.65185.YahooMailClassic@web161916.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1313477938.73174.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:58 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > Go to his sponsers. What's their agenda? Revenue, of course. Which depends on page views (mostly). By this measure Shivani is far better than Logan. There's something to the small silver-lining that his articles can inspire some conversation about poetry, but I doubt that's part of the intention. c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Tue Aug 16 13:47:01 2011 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:47:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A twist of the pepper Message-ID: _____________________________________ Do turn out if you can! Saturday 20th August 2011 : Wurm Press poets at the Twisted Pepper in Dublin, Ireland ... Normally Wurm heads off for a turn on the prom at Biarritz or Clontarf in August, but this month we've been prevailed upon by our chums at Seven Towers to visit their country pile in Middle Abbey Street, presenting ... Poetry from Wurm Press : Christodoulos Makris, Cah-44, and Karl Parkinson Saturday 20th August 2011 3:00 p.m., The Box (downstairs) The Twisted Pepper, Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1, Ireland free admission _____________________________________ Christodoulos Makris "My tongue is splintered into signs half of me hardly knows." ? from 'Nicosia Journal' "I was knocked out by the skill of this writer" ? Nuala N? Chonch?ir Christodoulos Makris was born in Nicosia. He studied in Manchester and has lived in London and Dublin. He is currently based in north County Dublin and works for the public library service of Fingal County Council. He is the author of the Wurm Press chapbook "Round the Clock" (2009) and was Dublin regional editor for SUCCOUR magazine. His first collection "Spitting Out the Mother Tongue" (Wurm Press) is now available for preorder, and will be published in September. _____________________________________ Cah-44 ... "An American Serge Gainsbourg" - Casey Scott. In an 18-year career as an actor/writer/performance poet, CAH-44 has appeared in numerous plays, several films, and 1 ballet. His Spoken Word(s) have been heard in 49 US states and 13 countries. He has been found spitting in mics everywhere from a Laundromat in Ohio to a sports stadium in Alaska to a Spiegeltent in Stockholm. He has appeared at the South by Southwest music conference in Austin, Texas (twice), the inaugural Insomnia Performance Lockdown in Atlanta, Georgia, and the Electric Picnic in Stradbally, County Laois. With fellow expatriate Raven he hosts Tongue Box, a monthly spoken word showcase based at the Cobblestone pub in Smithfield. His work has been seen in print in such places as : The Rocky Mountain Times, Rain City Review, Ace Magazine, and AMP. He was once served an aubergine casserole by Karen Finley. He had seconds. Cah-44's chapbook, "still beat / still beat," is published by Wurm Press. _____________________________________ Karl Parkinson ... "... a beat poet who almost defies description; part Allen Ginsberg, part Snoop Dogg" - Evening Herald Well-known to regulars of Seven Towers events, Karl's chapbook "A Sacrament of Song" was the first of the Wurm Press mimeorevolution chapbook series. He's now working on a first collection for Wurm Press. _____________________________________ To purchase any of the mimeorevolution chapbooks, go to ... http://wurmimapfel.net/wurmpress?start=1 For additional information, write to Wurm im Apfel at ... wurmimapfel at gmail.com http://wurmimapfel.net/ _____________________________________ From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 15:46:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313523998.56860.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> modeled after Merwin's poem about Berryman. Cunning ... --- On Tue, 8/16/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:00 AM Dorianne Laux on Philip Levine as teacher: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/lauxmine.html >From Ed Byrne's *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, just reposted as the Poem of the Week. ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 16 15:50:42 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:50:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine In-Reply-To: <1313523998.56860.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes. And titled after Levine's chapter in his autobiography, "Mine Own John Berryman." On 8/16/11 2:46 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: > modeled after Merwin's poem about Berryman. Cunning ... > > --- On Tue, 8/16/11, David Graham wrote: >> >> From: David Graham >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine >> To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" >> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:00 AM >> >> Dorianne Laux on Philip Levine as teacher: >> >> >> http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/lauxmine.html >> From Ed Byrne's *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, just reposted as the Poem of the >> Week. >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Tue Aug 16 16:05:22 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE2A66F6BF6967-1E1C-6C35@webmail-m072.sysops.aol.com> Saw Dorianne read this when she was introducing Levine at NC State in 2008. Fitting all the way around. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2011 3:50 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine Yes. And titled after Levine's chapter in his autobiography, "Mine Own John Berryman." On 8/16/11 2:46 PM, "stephen russell" wrote: modeled after Merwin's poem about Berryman. Cunning ... --- On Tue, 8/16/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Mine Own Philip Levine To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu & Views" Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 11:00 AM Dorianne Laux on Philip Levine as teacher: http://www.valpo.edu/vpr/lauxmine.html >From Ed Byrne's *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, just reposted as the Poem of the Week. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 17 11:00:08 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:00:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery Message-ID: Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. Here's an interesting attempt to correct some of the sentimentalized appreciations that have appeared lately: http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/arts/lee-siegel/philip-levine-worker-poet ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 17 12:07:00 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:07:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> Thanks for the essay, David. I've been very unsatisfied by the talk about Levine's work (and "work") so far, and Siegel captures a bit of that. Of course, Siegel's "the fact that members of one segment of humanity are doomed to soulless, unreflective, unfulfilling work, while those of another, infinitely smaller segment are blessed with the opportunity to live out their destiny in their work" is peddling a kind of reverse Romanticism, or reverse Whitmanism. As someone who's worked in the military, factories, a bookstore, various menial jobs, and (most menial of all?) university classrooms, that depiction of the inner life of working life only makes sense viewed from the outside and on high. No doubt there are children chained to assembly lines (the great image for me is Basho's: "the farmer's child / rests from husking rice / then sees the moon"), and we ought to murder the people who put them there, but clockwatching and existential despair aren't simply products of that, or any particular, kind of work. Siegel's pretty short with crediting workers with imagination and inner substance, I'd say. But his point at the end ("Were they [the people who made him poet laureate] celebrating the corny, anodyne image of Levine as cuddly bard of American 'greatness' and 'resilience?' Or were they secretly applauding him for capturing in his art the holes in the American dream, and for coming through them?") is as apt as its answer is obvious. They're using a reputation they're manufacturing for him, using the ambition he shares with nearly everyone, to promote their sick sense of American exceptionalism: "our workers are . . ." etc. The world's a big vicious place; poets laureate are people who've signed on to celebrate a national image, no matter how tattered. I strongly suspect Levine would agree that before we agonize too much about how sad the lives of working people are, we ought to (and quickly) give them some jobs to hate. Jerry On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that > it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. Here's > an interesting attempt to correct some of the sentimentalized > appreciations that have appeared lately: > > http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/arts/lee-siegel/philip-levine-worker-poet > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 17 12:17:39 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:17:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> References: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <438EA4FB-7266-4ED9-9955-D1DBEE4F3C1C@ripon.edu> Good points all. I would just add, on my way out the door, that the twin images of Whitman as a cuddly affirmer (the article's author) and as an effete snob who didn't know about manual labor from first-hand (Levine, alas) are both reductive at best. In the best Whitman, the dark patches fall on him pretty heavily. And Levine, who once centered a poem around Whitman's "vivas for those who have failed" should certainly know better. I'd venture to say that Whitman did as much manual labor in his youth as Levine ever did. Farm work, carpentry, etc. (Not that it makes any sense to get in a pissing match about whose callouses are thicker.) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 17, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Thanks for the essay, David. I've been very unsatisfied by the talk about Levine's work (and "work") so far, and Siegel captures a bit of that. Of course, Siegel's "the fact that members of one segment of humanity are doomed to soulless, unreflective, unfulfilling work, while those of another, infinitely smaller segment are blessed with the opportunity to live out their destiny in their work" is peddling a kind of reverse Romanticism, or reverse Whitmanism. As someone who's worked in the military, factories, a bookstore, various menial jobs, and (most menial of all?) university classrooms, that depiction of the inner life of working life only makes sense viewed from the outside and on high. No doubt there are children chained to assembly lines (the great image for me is Basho's: "the farmer's child / rests from husking rice / then sees the moon"), and we ought to murder the people who put them there, but clockwatching and existential despair aren't simply products of that, or any particular, kind of work. Siegel's pretty short with crediting workers with imagination and inner substance, I'd say. But his point at the end ("Were they [the people who made him poet laureate] celebrating the corny, anodyne image of Levine as cuddly bard of American 'greatness' and 'resilience?' Or were they secretly applauding him for capturing in his art the holes in the American dream, and for coming through them?") is as apt as its answer is obvious. They're using a reputation they're manufacturing for him, using the ambition he shares with nearly everyone, to promote their sick sense of American exceptionalism: "our workers are . . ." etc. The world's a big vicious place; poets laureate are people who've signed on to celebrate a national image, no matter how tattered. I strongly suspect Levine would agree that before we agonize too much about how sad the lives of working people are, we ought to (and quickly) give them some jobs to hate. > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: >> >> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. Here's an interesting attempt to correct some of the sentimentalized appreciations that have appeared lately: >> >> http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/arts/lee-siegel/philip-levine-worker-poet >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 12:36:30 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:36:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <438EA4FB-7266-4ED9-9955-D1DBEE4F3C1C@ripon.edu> References: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> <438EA4FB-7266-4ED9-9955-D1DBEE4F3C1C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Anis Shivani just called Levine a mediocrity. I'm going to Levine's reading at Bread Loaf tomorrow and will report back. Also, I've asked *Seven Days*, Vermont's "alternative" weekly, if they want a review of Shivani's upcoming book *Against the Workshop*. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 17 13:10:38 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1313601038.48665.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Even Levine doesn't capture work at its most demeaning. Immigrant labor: field work (almost slavery) ... worst still ... woman kept in servitude as sex toys. Hell, it gets worst than that (if possible/maybe) ... children ... depravity seems to know no bottom. --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: From: Jerry McGuire Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 12:07 PM Thanks for the essay, David. I've been very unsatisfied by the talk about Levine's work (and "work") so far, and Siegel captures a bit of that. Of course, Siegel's "the fact that members of one segment of humanity are doomed to soulless, unreflective, unfulfilling work, while those of another, infinitely smaller segment are blessed with the opportunity to live out their destiny in their work" is peddling a kind of reverse Romanticism, or reverse Whitmanism. As someone who's worked in the military, factories, a bookstore, various menial jobs, and (most menial of all?) university classrooms, that depiction of the inner life of working life only makes sense viewed from the outside and on high. No doubt there are children chained to assembly lines (the great image for me is Basho's: "the farmer's child / rests from husking rice / then sees the moon"), and we ought to murder the people who put them there, but clockwatching and existential despair aren't simply products of that, or any particular, kind of work. Siegel's pretty short with crediting workers with imagination and inner substance, I'd say. But his point at the end ("Were they [the people who made him poet laureate] celebrating the corny, anodyne image of Levine as cuddly bard of American 'greatness' and 'resilience?' Or were they secretly applauding him for capturing in his art the holes in the American dream, and for coming through them?") is as apt as its answer is obvious. They're using a reputation they're manufacturing for him, using the ambition he shares with nearly everyone, to promote their sick sense of American exceptionalism: "our workers are . . ." etc. The world's a big vicious place; poets laureate are people who've signed on to celebrate a national image, no matter how tattered. I strongly suspect Levine would agree that before we agonize too much about how sad the lives of working people are, we ought to (and quickly) give them some jobs to hate. Jerry On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. ?Here's an interesting attempt to correct some of the sentimentalized appreciations that have appeared lately: http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/arts/lee-siegel/philip-levine-worker-poet ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 14:15:38 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:15:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Between the Covers Message-ID: http://www.betweenthecovers.com/btc/search_results?advsrch=1&product_author=Levine&product_title=&product_keywords=Poetry&product_publisher=&product_place_of_publication=&product_date=&product_id=&btc_order=author_asc&btc_boolean=all&as_submit.x=27&as_submit.y=1 with an animated librarian, -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 17 15:30:51 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:30:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that > it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. Instead of about better poets no one has written about. Not that the kind of critic who would write about Levine would be capable of saying anything of interest about any poet no one had written about . . . --Bob From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 17 14:29:28 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:29:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Between the Covers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4C0888.6090004@louisiana.edu> Oh, Anny, like any of us has two ten-dollar bills to rub together! Best, Jerry On 8/17/2011 1:15 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.betweenthecovers.com/btc/search_results?advsrch=1&product_author=Levine&product_title=&product_keywords=Poetry&product_publisher=&product_place_of_publication=&product_date=&product_id=&btc_order=author_asc&btc_boolean=all&as_submit.x=27&as_submit.y=1 > > > with an animated librarian, > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From newpoetry at mikesnider.org Wed Aug 17 16:49:31 2011 From: newpoetry at mikesnider.org (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:49:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob, I'm truly sorry you're so blinded by your resentments and your theories. www.mikesnider.org On Aug 17, 2011, at 15:30, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: >> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. > > Instead of about better poets no one has written about. Not that the kind of critic who would write about Levine would be capable of saying anything of interest about any poet no one had written about . . . > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Aug 17 18:28:44 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Next Thursday - Feminist Poets meet The Feminist Press! Message-ID: <1313620124.76259.YahooMailNeo@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Feminist Press Summer Wrap Up Party Hudson Terrace 621 West 46th Street between 11th & 12th Avenues New York, NY Thursday, August 25 ? 5:30pm - 7:30pm - Hosted by: The Feminist Press Young Patron's Steering Committee - Enjoy 2 for 1 drinks until 7pm! - Meet and Greet Other Young Activists - Pick up some Feminist Press books - Learn More About The Feminist Press! Facebook Invite -- https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=186452588088690 ? ********* Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 17 21:25:17 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:25:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E4C69FD.1030805@nut-n-but.net> On 8/17/2011 3:49 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > Bob, I'm truly sorry you're so blinded by your resentments and your theories. >>> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. >> Instead of about better poets no one has written about. Not that the kind of critic who would write about Levine would be capable of saying anything of interest about any poet no one had written about . . . >> >> --Bob So it's a good thing that critics should continue writing about Levine and Merwin and Ashbery and Jorie Graham and Heany, etc., and completely ignore entire schools of poetry (or moose-skull kicking that a reasonably large number of artists consider poetry), Mike? What am I blind to? I'm not saying these poets should be ignored. I even wrote about Jorie Graham myself, although without saying much. Or is my blindness what's causing me to think the critics writing for periodicals seen by more than a few hundred people could not write perceptively about poets no one else had written about (the implication being that they'd need the guidance of previous critics to write about any poet). Okay, an exaggeration. I should have said, "Instead of about better poets composing poems of a kind no one has written about. Not that the kind of critic who would write about Levine would be capable of saying anything of interest about any poet no one had written about . . ." Sure, maybe these artists I'm alluding to are not "better" than the prize-winners I name. Subjectivity and all that. But I'd love to see an Establishment critic tell me why it should be better to discuss someone like Levine, /again/, than someone like Ed Baker, for instance, FOR THE FIRST TIME/. / --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Aug 17 20:20:45 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] U.S. Poet Laureates & A Shivani Message-ID: <1313626845.67903.YahooMailNeo@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> And I (continue, yawn) to note that they're mostly men - U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2011 = 40 Men and 9 Women] Original post - http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%E2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ And someone else pointed out to me recently that "Shivani slaps down three women to get to one man."? Of course, implicit in this is the fact that his reading of these poets is that they're imbecilic "pre-feminist girls," among other grossly reductive characterizations.? He doesn't like their work, that's clear & fine.? But he's also well versed in the fine art of employing misogynistic notions to the tune of old dudes lighting up cigars and fondling their tweed jackets while the ladies serve up martinis.? Of course, Levine does get a caveat, "Unlike Olds, Graham, and Gluck, Levine does possess some measure of genuine skill."? Likewise, he hands it to Mr. R.L. too, "Robert Lowell had a secure sense of himself as a conductor in the vast orchestral schema called History..."? This observation does not excuse the overall nastiness and ridicule with which he deals with every poet in his piece.? But it is worth noting that such attitudes towards women is such a common refrain that we don't usually think they're noteworthy.? -- I do.? David, I hope you write your review with the same care and humanity Shivani applies his "assessments" with.? Amy ? ________________________________ From: Jerry McGuire I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 17 20:52:12 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:52:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] U.S. Poet Laureates & A Shivani Message-ID: <10093630.1313628732813.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 17 21:40:15 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:40:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8@ripon.edu> On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: >> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. > > Instead of about better poets no one has written about. ========================== Of course, to know that a poet is better than Levine, one would really need to read Levine. That'd be step one. And then to convince *others* of that opinion, one would need to make an actual comparison, including saying something insightful about Levine. That'd be step two. If, you know, one happened to be *interested* in knowing, convincing, and so on. . . . Just a thought. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 07:10:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:10:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] U.S. Poet Laureates & A Shivani In-Reply-To: <10093630.1313628732813.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <10093630.1313628732813.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hey Boys, I am a woman, and all willing to receive honors, the little paid they are, I anyhow do not want *to get Fat. Cheers from a hot sunny stinking Italy, * On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:52 AM, wrote: > Yup. On the other hand, his last piece on huffpost was highly favorable > reviews of three woman poets and no men. > > His major point was a critique of what he reads as radical > self-involvement, which he thinks is endemic in American poetry. > > Best, > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king ** > Sent: Aug 17, 2011 8:20 PM > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" ** > Subject: [New-Poetry] U.S. Poet Laureates & A Shivani > > **** > And I (continue, yawn) to note that they're mostly men - *U.S. Poet > Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2011 = 40 Men and 9 Women]* > > ** > *Original post - > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/what%E2%80%99s-love-got-to-do-with-it/ > * > > ** > *And someone else pointed out to me recently that "Shivani slaps down > three women to get to one man." Of course, implicit in this is the fact > that his reading of these poets is that they're imbecilic "pre-feminist > girls," among other grossly reductive characterizations. He doesn't like > their work, that's clear & fine. But he's also well versed in the fine art > of employing misogynistic notions to the tune of old dudes lighting up > cigars and fondling their tweed jackets while the ladies serve up martinis. > Of course, Levine does get a caveat, "Unlike Olds, Graham, and Gluck, Levine > does possess some measure of genuine skill." Likewise, he hands it to Mr. > R.L. too, "*Robert Lowell had a secure sense of himself as a conductor in > the vast orchestral schema called History*..." > * > > This observation does not excuse the overall nastiness and ridicule with > which he deals with every poet in his piece. But it is worth noting that > such attitudes towards women is such a common refrain that we don't usually > think they're noteworthy. -- I do. > > David, I hope you write your review with the same care and humanity > Shivani applies his "assessments" with. > > Amy > ** > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jerry McGuire > > I've never actually looked at the full list of poets laureate. I note that > they're mostly more or less "conversational" poets... > > > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 02:35:41 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:35:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8@ripon.edu> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> <17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> On 8/17/2011 8:40 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. >> Instead of about better poets no one has written about. > ========================== > > Of course, to know that a poet is better than Levine, one would really need to read Levine. That'd be step one. And then to convince *others* of that opinion, one would need to make an actual comparison, including saying something insightful about Levine. That'd be step two. If, you know, one happened to be *interested* in knowing, convincing, and so on. . . . > Just a thought. What about the poets unwritten about said to be better than Levine, David? Should anyone read them? Do you think none of them is, so visible critics should focus on Levine instead of them? Tell you what, send me a collection of poems by five recent poet laureates, find someone who'd pay me for ten thousand words comparing their poems to the poems in five recent books of unwritten-about poets I know of, and I'd be glad to do it. --Bob From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 12:54:24 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Bob draws a line, holds to a hard aesthetic. & it's understandable. Critics only write about poets/writers who are visible. I can find Ron Silliman's books at Barnes & Noble. I can find Charles Bernstein's books in Barnes & Noble. But I wouldn't find a book by Scott Helmes. We tend to forget that the business of reviewing is market driven. A book of poetry will rarely, if ever, make the best-seller list. Or sell more than a few thousand copies (compare the sales of notable poets to that of fiction writers).? But poetry outsells certain categories. It outsells History. & only books that sell end up on the shelves in book stores. A poet laureate is an easy choice for book sellers. As well as certain names that have built a body of work over decades: Merwin, Ashbery, the late James Merrill, or Ginsberg (did Howl make the best-seller list, if only the top 100?). I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. And where does this leave a poet such as Scott Helmes, or others that Bob may champion? Do they have to rely on small one man shows at art galleries? Or libraries? --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:35 AM On 8/17/2011 8:40 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: >>> Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. >> Instead of about better poets no one has written about. > ========================== > > Of course, to know that a poet is better than Levine, one would really need to read Levine.? That'd be step one.? And then to convince *others* of that opinion, one would need to make an actual comparison, including saying something insightful about Levine.? That'd be step two.? If, you know, one happened to be *interested* in knowing, convincing, and so on. . . . > Just a thought. What about the poets unwritten about said to be better than Levine, David?? Should anyone read them?? Do you think none of them is, so visible critics should focus on Levine instead of them? Tell you what, send me a collection of poems by five recent poet laureates, find someone who'd pay me for ten thousand words comparing their poems to the poems in five recent books of unwritten-about poets I know of, and I'd be glad to do it. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 13:51:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet Message-ID: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Thu Aug 18 14:03:09 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:03:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. Sands or the Economist... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 14:13:07 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:13:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> References: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for this Jerry, I understand where you are. And thanks for the Basho quote, that I added to my Pirandello one: a 1907 character invented by Pirandello, Ciaula, in: ?Ciaula scopre la luna (Ciaula Discovers the Moon, a short story),? the poor uneducated Sicilian sulfur miner who, after an accident because of which he breaks his lamp, comes out of the mine with his sac full of sulfur in the middle of the night and for the very first time in his life, sees the moon. What I want to add is that Europe, the whole entire Europe, about some 60 years ago was a land more similar to a rotten desert than to a tourist resort, and the only rich ended up being those who had stolen and had sold to their starving brothers/neighbors a piece of bread for gold. The depression, followed by the 2nd WW, also hit the States. Much less compared to Europe, but reconstruction here, as much as there, was needed. What I need to say is that without that woman staring at a wheel for hours on end, we would not have this damned pc on which I/you / we am/are typing. Nor the coffee, nor all the miseries that the pc, and the coffee have brought with. The enormous intrusive and interfering disasters that we have been facing since ever, where a job as a U professor is counted by you as one of them. But besides that, what I really want to say is that Levine in his Whitmanesque manner is singing of my/your /his/her/ their parents and grandparents, since you are more or less my age. And I have nothing against my ancestors [well I do against some but for psychological reasons - not inherent to the topic], nor against yours, nor theirs, thus Welcome to the one who reminds us of Them. On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Thanks for the essay, David. I've been very unsatisfied by the talk about > Levine's work (and "work") so far, and Siegel captures a bit of that. Of > course, Siegel's "the fact that members of one segment of humanity are > doomed to soulless, unreflective, unfulfilling work, while those of another, > infinitely smaller segment are blessed with the opportunity to live out > their destiny in their work" is peddling a kind of reverse Romanticism, or > reverse Whitmanism. As someone who's worked in the military, factories, a > bookstore, various menial jobs, and (most menial of all?) university > classrooms, that depiction of the inner life of working life only makes > sense viewed from the outside and on high. No doubt there are children > chained to assembly lines (the great image for me is Basho's: "the farmer's > child / rests from husking rice / then sees the moon"), and we ought to > murder the people who put them there, but clockwatching and existential > despair aren't simply products of that, or any particular, kind of work. > Siegel's pretty short with crediting workers with imagination and inner > substance, I'd say. But his point at the end ("Were they [the people who > made him poet laureate] celebrating the corny, anodyne image of Levine as > cuddly bard of American 'greatness' and 'resilience?' Or were they secretly > applauding him for capturing in his art the holes in the American dream, and > for coming through them?") is as apt as its answer is obvious. They're using > a reputation they're manufacturing for him, using the ambition he shares > with nearly everyone, to promote their sick sense of American > exceptionalism: "our workers are . . ." etc. The world's a big vicious > place; poets laureate are people who've signed on to celebrate a national > image, no matter how tattered. I strongly suspect Levine would agree that > before we agonize too much about how sad the lives of working people are, we > ought to (and quickly) give them some jobs to hate. > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > On 8/17/2011 10:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > > Best thing about Philip Levine's appointment as Poet Laureate is that it > might provoke reflection and disagreement about his work. Here's an > interesting attempt to correct some of the sentimentalized appreciations > that have appeared lately: > > > http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/arts/lee-siegel/philip-levine-worker-poet > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 15:20:19 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:20:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery In-Reply-To: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4D65F3.3070602@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: > Bob draws a line, holds to a hard aesthetic. & it's understandable. > Critics only write about poets/writers who are visible. I can find Ron > Silliman's books at Barnes & Noble. I can find Charles Bernstein's > books in Barnes & Noble. But I wouldn't find a book by Scott Helmes. > We tend to forget that the business of reviewing is market driven. A > book of poetry will rarely, if ever, make the best-seller list. Or > sell more than a few thousand copies (compare the sales of notable > poets to that of fiction writers). But poetry outsells certain > categories. It outsells History. & only books that sell end up on the > shelves in book stores. A poet laureate is an easy choice for book > sellers. As well as certain names that have built a body of work over > decades: Merwin, Ashbery, the late James Merrill, or Ginsberg (did > Howl make the best-seller list, if only the top 100?). > > I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of > their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few > others. But it's a small list of names. > > And where does this leave a poet such as Scott Helmes, or others that > Bob may champion? Do they have to rely on small one man shows at art > galleries? Or libraries? > It would seem so. Or blogs or periodicals with circulations of 17. What really is annoying is not that critics are market-driven, but /stupidly/ market-driven. They push what has sold, never what very well might sell. Oh, well, they can't do otherwise--all they are aware of is what has sold--or done the equivalent--i.e., won awards. Charles B., by the way, has a new collection of essays out, /Attack of the Difficult Poems/, I believe it's called. I'm now going to order a copy. I actually expect to enjoy it although I'll be disgusted with what I consider its narrow focus. And here's a guy who was with the marginals for a decade or so, and doesn't need to make money from his poetry, yet won't (apparently) use his influence to help out poets like Helmes and Ed Baker, to mention another unknown I haven't mentioned enough in the past. He is very accessible, it seems to me, at least for anyone who likes haiku. Too much going on here for me to find something of his to post, but /Stone Girl/ seems to be his latest. Uneven but full of super-poems. Robert Lax and Larry Eigner are two deceased poems his work has things in common with. Eigner has gotten some attention, having been carried by the language poets; Lax has gotten a little press, mainly due to his connection with Thomas Merton. If only I knew for certain that I'd have another fifty years with no mental diminishment or consequential physical problems, I'd love to write a history of the second half of the last century in American poetry, and leave out Wilshberia completely. As (1) a joke, but (2) to show that a dense history that ought to appeal to people interested in poetry could be written of those times without referring to anyone the academics have written significantly about. It'd be a lot of fun. Hey, someone send me an advance of a measly ten grand or so, and I'll do it! --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 15:25:45 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:25:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: References: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4D6739.7040009@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 1:03 PM, sheila black wrote: > Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of > her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both > married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had > written her. I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere > else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, > sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. I mean I put the book down, > sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile > poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries. I am > not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. > Sands or the Economist... I /love/ some of his plays, but consider them black comedies; Pinter seems to have considered them tragedies, intended to make us weep not laugh (or so I've read). So I wonder if he was capable of lyric poetry--poetry, that is, of lyrical directness. I can see him having written interesting ambiguous plaintext poems, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 18 14:22:03 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:22:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net> <17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8@ripon.edu> <4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu> >> > > What about the poets unwritten about said to be better than Levine, David? Should anyone read them? Do you think none of them is, so visible critics should focus on Levine instead of them? > > Tell you what, send me a collection of poems by five recent poet laureates, find someone who'd pay me for ten thousand words comparing their poems to the poems in five recent books of unwritten-about poets I know of, and I'd be glad to do it. > > --Bob ========================= Bob, of course I never said nobody should write about the poets you want written about. In fact, I suggested (was it too subtle?) that in fact YOU might like to write about them, right here, and see if you could actually change somebody's mind rather than just insulting us repeatedly and making unfounded assertions about poets and poems you frequently admit you haven't read. This is, after all, a discussion list. You're free to post anything you want. As I say, it was just a thought. But let me see if I've got this right. Your answer to my suggestion is that you'd gladly read Philip Levine & other poet laureates to back up your unsupported, unillustrated swipes at them, *if* somebody bought the books for you and also paid you to do so. . . . Good luck with that. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 14:27:22 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:27:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: References: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And yet he put together once a nice little anthology called 100 Poems by 100 Poets, as I recall. Should be available at a bargain price via Amazon. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:03 PM, sheila black wrote: > Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her > great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to > other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have > never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but > I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. > I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet > and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great > mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, > with Mr. Sands or the Economist... > > > > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet > > > http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 > > ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose > ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until > August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. > This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow > Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The > plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to > Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who > dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a > remarkable sincerity. > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 18 14:33:37 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:33:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: > I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? Mary Oliver? Dunno. I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 14:44:11 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:44:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: References: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE2BEDF43F4EA0-29D8-389A3@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> I have that book. It was enjoyable seeing which poems/poets he was drawn to. As interesting for its omissions as for its inclusions. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:27 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet And yet he put together once a nice little anthology called 100 Poems by 100 Poets, as I recall. Should be available at a bargain price via Amazon. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems, Mainly Black, Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:03 PM, sheila black wrote: Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. Sands or the Economist... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 15:04:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:04:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> I imagine that Robert Bly's Iron John book outsold all of his poetry books combined. Similary Mary Karr's Liar's Club memoir probably made more than all of her poetry income put together. You know you've made it as a poet when you get agent representation http://www.barclayagency.com/ and I agree that readings/lectures/guest appointments are probably where the real money is, though you have to be willing to travel. Some of the top poets are probably Platinum Plus on one or two airlines. A common way to pay traveling sales people is base salary (enough to live on) plus commissions (the real money). The base salary for a poet would be her/his tenured professorship. The commission income would be reading fees/lectures/summer conference fee/some royalties...so in some ways, you could say the well-known poets are like salespeople. Then you have someone like David Whyte, who is not really read much by poets/critics as far as I know, yet has made a decent income (presumably) by touring and speaking to various organizations... http://www.davidwhyte.com/ Willy Loman -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? Mary Oliver? Dunno. I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 15:08:41 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:08:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: <8CE2BEDF43F4EA0-29D8-389A3@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2BE69BD5C66A-29D8-3730A@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2BEDF43F4EA0-29D8-389A3@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yes, a nicely offbeat collection. Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:44 PM, wrote: > I have that book. It was enjoyable seeing which poems/poets he was drawn > to. As interesting for its omissions as for its inclusions. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:27 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet > > And yet he put together once a nice little anthology called 100 Poems by > 100 Poets, as I recall. Should be available at a bargain price via Amazon. > > > Serving the tri-state area. > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home > > *Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems > , Mainly Black > , **Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; **Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:03 PM, sheila black wrote: > >> Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her >> great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to >> other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have >> never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but >> I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. >> I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet >> and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great >> mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, >> with Mr. Sands or the Economist... >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet >> >> >> http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 >> >> ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose >> ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until >> August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. >> This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow >> Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The >> plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to >> Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who >> dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a >> remarkable sincerity. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 16:23:26 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313699006.73371.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm a Pinter fan. I write plays/poetry ... & love the famous Pinter style which morphed throughout his career (hell, I forget if Pinter is still alive. He won a Nobel not too long ago --). Compare the early plays to later pieces. Old Times, for instance, a lovely chamber piece. Read that and The Dumb Waiter together. It almost seems as though each piece were written by different authors, which I suppose is the case: late P/early P. Pinter also wrote a few excellent and popular screen plays. The Turtle Diary, a beautifully acted/ written film (I almost said poem, which is also true.). I'm not as familiar with his poetry. His 9/11 poem wasn't much, but one failed poem speaks little when considering a body of work. Pinter also made a few attempts at fiction, but those efforts are marginal. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, sheila black wrote: From: sheila black Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:03 PM Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her.? I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful.? I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries.? I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. Sands or the Economist... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ? ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. ? ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 16:31:13 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <1313699473.37473.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I remember reading somewhere that Merwin earned a living by tutoring and translation work. Didn't Ashbery win a McArthur. That's half a mil ... enough for a small NY apartment. What about cult figures? Ginsberg may have been able to afford ... (dunno) ... to live off of the earnings of Howl. What about Bukowski? Who would have allowed him in a classroom? Of course, the sales of all poetry books in any given year would probably pale compared to a Stehen King or John Grisham novel. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, David Graham wrote: From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:33 PM On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names.?===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. ?My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. ?I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. ?His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. ? Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: ?Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. ?By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. ? Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? ?Mary Oliver? ?Dunno. ?I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ? ========================================David Grahamgrahamd at ripon.edu Home Page:http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library:http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html========================================== -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Thu Aug 18 16:31:04 2011 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:31:04 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: <1313699006.73371.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: , <1313699006.73371.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was kind of joking about this. But I am a big fan of his plays. Maybe that's why I was surprised by--well, at least the poems Lady Antonia chose to quote of his, but they were all love poems, personal. Maybe it isn't really fair to consider them as his work....I remember actually feeling heartened in an odd way--eg--that someone so skilled in one medium, should not necessarily be in another... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:23:26 -0700 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet I'm a Pinter fan. I write plays/poetry ... & love the famous Pinter style which morphed throughout his career (hell, I forget if Pinter is still alive. He won a Nobel not too long ago --). Compare the early plays to later pieces. Old Times, for instance, a lovely chamber piece. Read that and The Dumb Waiter together. It almost seems as though each piece were written by different authors, which I suppose is the case: late P/early P. Pinter also wrote a few excellent and popular screen plays. The Turtle Diary, a beautifully acted/ written film (I almost said poem, which is also true.). I'm not as familiar with his poetry. His 9/11 poem wasn't much, but one failed poem speaks little when considering a body of work. Pinter also made a few attempts at fiction, but those efforts are marginal. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, sheila black wrote: From: sheila black Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:03 PM Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. Sands or the Economist... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 16:35:17 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:35:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: <1313699006.73371.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313699006.73371.YahooMailClassic@web161920.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Stephen, you didn't do you homework, here's the beginning of the article (see link sent by James Finnegan, first message in the row): WELL before he died of cancer in 2008, Harold Pinter knew he had earned a reputation for being ?enigmatic, taciturn, terse, prickly, explosive and forbidding?. This intensity can be felt in his plays, which often consider the ambiguity of language and the tension between what is said and what is left unspoken. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:23 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm a Pinter fan. I write plays/poetry ... & love the famous Pinter style > which morphed throughout his career (hell, I forget if Pinter is still > alive. He won a Nobel not too long ago --). Compare the early plays to later > pieces. Old Times, for instance, a lovely chamber piece. Read that and The > Dumb Waiter together. It almost seems as though each piece were written by > different authors, which I suppose is the case: late P/early P. Pinter also > wrote a few excellent and popular screen plays. The Turtle Diary, a > beautifully acted/ written film (I almost said poem, which is also true.). > I'm not as familiar with his poetry. His 9/11 poem wasn't much, but one > failed poem speaks little when considering a body of work. Pinter also made > a few attempts at fiction, but those efforts are marginal. > > --- On *Thu, 8/18/11, sheila black * wrote: > > > From: sheila black > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:03 PM > > > Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her > great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to > other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have > never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but > I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. > I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet > and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great > mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, > with Mr. Sands or the Economist... > > > > ------------------------------ > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet > > http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 > > ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose > ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until > August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. > This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow > Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The > plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to > Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who > dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a > remarkable sincerity. > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 16:39:37 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313699977.38045.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I know, Anny. The homework thing ... that was always my problem. I'm one of those ... The dog ate my homework guys. Been paying for that ever since. But I will check the link. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 4:35 PM Stephen, you didn't do you homework, here's the beginning of the article (see link sent by James Finnegan, first message in the row): WELL before he died of cancer in 2008, Harold Pinter knew he had earned a reputation for being ?enigmatic, taciturn, terse, prickly, explosive and forbidding?. This intensity can be felt in his plays, which often consider the ambiguity of language and the tension between what is said and what is left unspoken. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:23 PM, stephen russell wrote: I'm a Pinter fan. I write plays/poetry ... & love the famous Pinter style which morphed throughout his career (hell, I forget if Pinter is still alive. He won a Nobel not too long ago --). Compare the early plays to later pieces. Old Times, for instance, a lovely chamber piece. Read that and The Dumb Waiter together. It almost seems as though each piece were written by different authors, which I suppose is the case: late P/early P. Pinter also wrote a few excellent and popular screen plays. The Turtle Diary, a beautifully acted/ written film (I almost said poem, which is also true.). I'm not as familiar with his poetry. His 9/11 poem wasn't much, but one failed poem speaks little when considering a body of work. Pinter also made a few attempts at fiction, but those efforts are marginal. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, sheila black wrote: From: sheila black Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 2:03 PM Okay, maybe it's me, but I devoured Lady Antonia Frazier's memoir of her great love affair with Pinter (they did marry, but began both married to other people) and she kept quoting love poems he had written her. I have never read Sir. Harold's poems anywhere else--quite a fan of his plays--but I thought the poems were obvious, sentimental, AWFUL, astonishingly Awful. I mean I put the book down, sighing, "How can you be such a wonderful poet and write such juvenile poems..." and considered it one of the (many) great mysteries. I am not sure I can agree, based on the evidence I have seen, with Mr. Sands or the Economist... To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:51:36 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Pinter the poet http://www.economist.com/node/21526301 ?Reading the poems was a revelation,? says Julian Sands (pictured), whose ?A Celebration of Harold Pinter? is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe until August 21st. Amid the jamboree, Mr Sands?s portrait strikes a mature note. This one-man production, directed by John Malkovich, a friend and fellow Pinterphile, features anecdotes, personal stories and a clutch of poems. The plays are hardly mentioned. For Mr Sands the thrill is in giving voice to Pinter?s lesser-known work. The effect is enlightening. For a man who dramatised the obfuscating power of language, these poems ring with a remarkable sincerity. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Aug 18 16:46:48 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> <8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Hi I think the major money or income to be had in poetry is in appearances. This I am guessing from my one or two brushes with the task of booking poets when I was in college. The English dept had funding for guests ($1,500 total) that we had raised, so we sent out letters to a hand-picked selection of writers. I do not remember them all, but do remember Edward Albee (bless him) was in town and offered to give a reading for free (IF we only invited a small group), and I remember a poet (whose name I will not mention). I think it was in 1991 and her agent wrote us back with a long list of requirements: first class travel, a five star hotel and $3,000 for a one hour reading, a workshop was $5,000. To bring this person to our university including travel and other requests would have cost $10,000. The list was similar to a rock star: white flowers, bottled water, vegan food, etc. She also requested a town car (not driven by a student). Millicent -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry I imagine that Robert Bly's Iron John book outsold all of his poetry books combined. Similary Mary Karr's Liar's Club memoir probably made more than all of her poetry income put together. You know you've made it as a poet when you get agent representation http://www.barclayagency.com/ and I agree that readings/lectures/guest appointments are probably where the real money is, though you have to be willing to travel. Some of the top poets are probably Platinum Plus on one or two airlines. A common way to pay traveling sales people is base salary (enough to live on) plus commissions (the real money). The base salary for a poet would be her/his tenured professorship. The commission income would be reading fees/lectures/summer conference fee/some royalties...so in some ways, you could say the well-known poets are like salespeople. Then you have someone like David Whyte, who is not really read much by poets/critics as far as I know, yet has made a decent income (presumably) by touring and speaking to various organizations... http://www.davidwhyte.com/ Willy Loman -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? Mary Oliver? Dunno. I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 16:53:02 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1313700782.5935.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Iron John. Bly lost a number of readers (me) when he turned into a pop psychology author. Mary Karr's case if thankfully different. Liars Club was an excellent memoir. I prefer Karr's prose to her poetry. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: From: Millicent Borges Accardi Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 4:46 PM Hi ? I think the major money or income to be had in poetry is in appearances. ? This I am guessing from my one or two brushes with the task of booking poets?when I was in college. ? The English dept had funding for guests ($1,500 total) that we had raised, so we sent out letters to a hand-picked selection of writers. I do not remember them all, but do remember Edward Albee (bless him) was in town and offered to give a reading for free (IF we only invited a small group), and I remember a poet (whose name I will not mention). I think it was in 1991 and her agent wrote us back with a long list of requirements: first class travel, a five star hotel and $3,000 for a one hour reading, a workshop was $5,000.? To bring this person to our university including travel and other requests would have cost $10,000. The list was similar to a rock star: white flowers, bottled water, vegan food, etc. She also requested a town car (not driven by a student). ? Millicent ? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry I imagine that Robert Bly's Iron John book outsold all of his poetry books combined. Similary Mary Karr's Liar's Club memoir probably made more than all of her poetry?income put together. You know you've made it as a poet when you get agent representation http://www.barclayagency.com/ and I agree that readings/lectures/guest appointments are probably where the real money is, though you have to be willing to travel. Some of the top poets are probably Platinum Plus on one or?two airlines. ? A common way to pay traveling?sales people is base salary (enough to live on)?plus commissions (the real money). The base salary for a poet would be her/his tenured professorship. The commission income?would be reading fees/lectures/summer conference fee/some royalties...so in some ways, you could say the?well-known poets are like?salespeople. ? Then you have someone like David Whyte, who is not really read much by poets/critics as far as I know, yet has made a decent?income (presumably) by touring and speaking to various organizations... http://www.davidwhyte.com/ ? Willy Loman -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names.? ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. ?My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. ?I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. ?His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. ? Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: ?Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. ?By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. ? Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? ?Mary Oliver? ?Dunno. ?I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 18:00:50 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:00:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: <097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net><17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8 @ripon.edu><4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> <097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 1:22 PM, David Graham wrote: >> What about the poets unwritten about said to be better than Levine, David? Should anyone read them? Do you think none of them is, so visible critics should focus on Levine instead of them? >> >> Tell you what, send me a collection of poems by five recent poet laureates, find someone who'd pay me for ten thousand words comparing their poems to the poems in five recent books of unwritten-about poets I know of, and I'd be glad to do it. >> >> --Bob > ========================= > > Bob, of course I never said nobody should write about the poets you want written about. Here's an easy question, David. Do you think a book by an established critic like Vendler or Logan about 5 poets representing schools of poetry no established critic has every written seriously about, would be more worth writing than one about Levine? I'm a nobody, as you are well aware. What possible difference could it make what I write here or anywhere? Good grief, you seem unaware of what I /have/ written here about "my" poets. My simple point which I get slammed for repeating so much but which doesn't seem to have sunk in with anyone but Stephen and a few others is that we have enough books and articles about Levine and Jorie Graham and the other best-known poets of the time. Why not books about poets doing entirely different work than theirs? Why continue near-completely to ignore poets like Scott Helmes, Ed Baker, Kathy Ernst, Carol Stetser, the late Bill Keith and many others outside Wilshberia. > In fact, I suggested (was it too subtle?) that in fact YOU might like to write about them, right here, and see if you could actually change somebody's mind rather than just insulting us repeatedly and making unfounded assertions about poets and poems you frequently admit you haven't read. This is, after all, a discussion list. You're free to post anything you want. > > > As I say, it was just a thought. But let me see if I've got this right. Your answer to my suggestion is that you'd gladly read Philip Levine& other poet laureates to back up your unsupported, unillustrated swipes at them, *if* somebody bought the books for you and also paid you to do so. . . . > > Good luck with that. Right, David. If someone paid me well enough to waste my time doing superfluous critical work, I'd do it. I could do it fairly quickly by repeating what others have written about Levine, et al, the way the leading academic critics write their books. With, sure, a few slightly new angles, like finding some known poet Levine was influenced by that no one else had noticed. Then I could put money worries aside long enough to do some worthwhile critical work. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 18:30:39 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:30:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu><8CE2 BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4D928F.5050102@nut-n-but.net> Edward Albee (bless him) Yes. He doesn't know it but he was responsible for the biggest return I ever got on my poetry--a three-week free-room&board stay with other visual poets at the Atlantic Arts Center in New Smyrna Beach--with use of a good xerox and a computer far superior to the one I had at the time, and most important for me, the use of Photo Shop software that became my main tool as a poet. Albee chose Richard Kostelanetz to be master artist at the center with his choice of up to ten or so colleagues. The scuttlebutt is that the board of directors had rejected Kostelanetz, the center being standardly mainstream, but Albee, as chairman or something, over-rode them. Aside from that, he's quietly done a great deal for the arts. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 18:32:51 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:32:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] UC Santa Cruz given $500, 000 to establish a poetry fund Message-ID: <8CE2C0DE65A9C31-1478-F0B5@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> http://santacruz.patch.com/articles/ucsc-gets-big-poetry-grant The University of California at Santa Cruz received a gift of $500,000 to establish a poetry fund, school officials announced. The George P. Hitchcock Modern Poetry Fund will provide support for a broad range of modern and contemporary poetry projects at the university's Porter College -- including residencies for poets and readings, among other activities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Thu Aug 18 18:37:29 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <4E4D928F.5050102@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313707049.38852.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Excellent story. I saw Albee at a local D.C. event, something called the Rockville Lit festival. Got 3 books signed (3 first editions). Three, that's the number of pulitzer prizes Albee has been awarded. Not bad, since his first play, Zoo Story, got performed (if I remember correctly) on a fluke. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 6:30 PM Edward Albee (bless him) Yes.? He doesn't know it but he was responsible for the biggest return I ever got on my poetry--a three-week free-room&board stay with other visual poets at the Atlantic Arts Center in New Smyrna Beach--with use of a good xerox and a computer far superior to the one I had at the time, and most important for me, the use of Photo Shop software that became my main tool as a poet.? Albee chose Richard Kostelanetz to be master artist at the center with his choice of up to ten or so colleagues.? The scuttlebutt is that the board of directors had rejected Kostelanetz, the center being standardly mainstream, but Albee, as chairman or something, over-rode them. Aside from that, he's quietly done a great deal for the arts. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Aug 18 19:14:15 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:14:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry Message-ID: <22488652.1313709255573.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 20:28:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:28:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <1313707049.38852.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313707049.38852.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4DAE20.1040408@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 5:37 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Excellent story. I saw Albee at a local D.C. event, something called > the Rockville Lit festival. Got 3 books signed (3 first editions). > Three, that's the number of pulitzer prizes Albee has been awarded. > Not bad, since his first play, Zoo Story, got performed (if I remember > correctly) on a fluke. > Didn't know the latter. My other claim to fame re: Albee is that I saw /Zoo Story/ during its first off-Broadway run--with your boy Sam B's /Krapp's Last Tape/, which I liked a lot better. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 18 20:12:04 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:12:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net><17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8 @ripon.edu><4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net> <097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu> <4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Aug 18, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Here's an easy question, David. Do you think a book by an established critic like Vendler or Logan about 5 poets representing schools of poetry no established critic has every written seriously about, would be more worth writing than one about Levine? ============== Yes, that's an easy question. The answer is: it depends on what they write. I don't have opinions about work I haven't read, and I don't assume anything is automatically "better" based on the criteria that you apply. As usual you dodged my own point, incidentally. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Aug 18 20:36:17 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <1313700782.5935.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313700782.5935.YahooMailClassic@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE2C1F24867972-19D8-22ABA@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> I might add. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with treating poets like rock stars! It's just that it blew my mind to find out the amount of money some poets get for public appearances. I had no idea. And if this person were earning 10K for a double-header in 1991, I can only imagine what the going rate is today, twenty years later. Millicent Help me get to 500 by the end of summer. Click here to "like" my Facebook page. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry Iron John. Bly lost a number of readers (me) when he turned into a pop psychology author. Mary Karr's case if thankfully different. Liars Club was an excellent memoir. I prefer Karr's prose to her poetry. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Millicent Borges Accardi wrote: From: Millicent Borges Accardi Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 4:46 PM Hi I think the major money or income to be had in poetry is in appearances. This I am guessing from my one or two brushes with the task of booking poets when I was in college. The English dept had funding for guests ($1,500 total) that we had raised, so we sent out letters to a hand-picked selection of writers. I do not remember them all, but do remember Edward Albee (bless him) was in town and offered to give a reading for free (IF we only invited a small group), and I remember a poet (whose name I will not mention). I think it was in 1991 and her agent wrote us back with a long list of requirements: first class travel, a five star hotel and $3,000 for a one hour reading, a workshop was $5,000. To bring this person to our university including travel and other requests would have cost $10,000. The list was similar to a rock star: white flowers, bottled water, vegan food, etc. She also requested a town car (not driven by a student). Millicent -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry I imagine that Robert Bly's Iron John book outsold all of his poetry books combined. Similary Mary Karr's Liar's Club memoir probably made more than all of her poetry income put together. You know you've made it as a poet when you get agent representation http://www.barclayagency.com/ and I agree that readings/lectures/guest appointments are probably where the real money is, though you have to be willing to travel. Some of the top poets are probably Platinum Plus on one or two airlines. A common way to pay traveling sales people is base salary (enough to live on) plus commissions (the real money). The base salary for a poet would be her/his tenured professorship. The commission income would be reading fees/lectures/summer conference fee/some royalties...so in some ways, you could say the well-known poets are like salespeople. Then you have someone like David Whyte, who is not really read much by poets/critics as far as I know, yet has made a decent income (presumably) by touring and speaking to various organizations... http://www.davidwhyte.com/ Willy Loman -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? Mary Oliver? Dunno. I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From faustina1 at aol.com Thu Aug 18 20:31:39 2011 From: faustina1 at aol.com (Yeah) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu><8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE2C1E7EE9611A-A54-2D64A@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Wow, have I ever been there and done that. When I was inviting speakers for our CW we had $1500 for a year's honoraria and were supposed to invite two. I quickly learned that if I had to go through someone's agent, I could forget them. On the other hand, some people were very generous and we could bring them in from UH or UT. Accommodations were my guest room... Janet -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry Hi I think the major money or income to be had in poetry is in appearances. This I am guessing from my one or two brushes with the task of booking poets when I was in college. The English dept had funding for guests ($1,500 total) that we had raised, so we sent out letters to a hand-picked selection of writers. I do not remember them all, but do remember Edward Albee (bless him) was in town and offered to give a reading for free (IF we only invited a small group), and I remember a poet (whose name I will not mention). I think it was in 1991 and her agent wrote us back with a long list of requirements: first class travel, a five star hotel and $3,000 for a one hour reading, a workshop was $5,000. To bring this person to our university including travel and other requests would have cost $10,000. The list was similar to a rock star: white flowers, bottled water, vegan food, etc. She also requested a town car (not driven by a student). Millicent -----Original Message----- From: jforjames To: new-poetry Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry I imagine that Robert Bly's Iron John book outsold all of his poetry books combined. Similary Mary Karr's Liar's Club memoir probably made more than all of her poetry income put together. You know you've made it as a poet when you get agent representation http://www.barclayagency.com/ and I agree that readings/lectures/guest appointments are probably where the real money is, though you have to be willing to travel. Some of the top poets are probably Platinum Plus on one or two airlines. A common way to pay traveling sales people is base salary (enough to live on) plus commissions (the real money). The base salary for a poet would be her/his tenured professorship. The commission income would be reading fees/lectures/summer conference fee/some royalties...so in some ways, you could say the well-known poets are like salespeople. Then you have someone like David Whyte, who is not really read much by poets/critics as far as I know, yet has made a decent income (presumably) by touring and speaking to various organizations... http://www.davidwhyte.com/ Willy Loman -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, stephen russell wrote: I wonder how many poets could earn a modest living on the sale of their books. Probably Pinsky, Merwin, Ashbery, Bernstein, and a few others. But it's a small list of names. ===================== I don't know, but it's an interesting question. My guess is that none of the above have ever lived off the sales of their poetry books. I doubt that even Billy Collins could, frankly. His sales are stratospheric in PoLand, but I'd wager that his sales for all books combined likely pale in comparison to sales of a single Stephen King novel. Merwin's sources of income have been much speculated about in poetry circles for many years, but all the others you list have earned their keep in other ways: Ashbery as a journalist before he joined the academy, Pinsky & Bernstein as professors, etc. By and large, the money for poets, such as it is, comes from teaching gigs, reading & lecture fees, workshop residencies, contest judging, and prose spun off from the poetic career. Maybe Maya Angelou could live off poetry sales? Mary Oliver? Dunno. I'm sure her lecture fees dwarf book sales, even for her prose books. Even the position of Poet Laureate doesn't pay half of what a professor at a big university earns in a year. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 20:48:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:48:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu><8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE2C20E4236589-1478-FD3D@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> Certain high-demand poets could be reading 4 days a week, 40 or more weeks a year, if they accepted all of their invitations to read. In a way the steep booking price creates a simple monetary barrier that keeps the poet/writer from becoming a professional touring reader instead a workinjg author who actually has time to write books, and live a real life in one place. Atleast that's the way Maxine Kumin explained it to me many years ago when I was running a reading series in Northampton Mass. I'd offered her my top dollar at the time $500, and she declined, very nicely, giving me pretty much that explanation. Her need to ride and care for her horses somehow figured into her particular reason not to drive down from her place in New Hampshire to read and pick up my check, as I recall, and that all made sense to me. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Millicent Borges Accardi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry Hi I think the major money or income to be had in poetry is in appearances. This I am guessing from my one or two brushes with the task of booking poets when I was in college. The English dept had funding for guests ($1,500 total) that we had raised, so we sent out letters to a hand-picked selection of writers. I do not remember them all, but do remember Edward Albee (bless him) was in town and offered to give a reading for free (IF we only invited a small group), and I remember a poet (whose name I will not mention). I think it was in 1991 and her agent wrote us back with a long list of requirements: first class travel, a five star hotel and $3,000 for a one hour reading, a workshop was $5,000. To bring this person to our university including travel and other requests would have cost $10,000. The list was similar to a rock star: white flowers, bottled water, vegan food, etc. She also requested a town car (not driven by a student). Millicent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 18 22:20:30 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:20:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net><17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8 @ripon.edu><4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net><097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu><4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4E4DC86E.1030200@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 7:12 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On Aug 18, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Here's an easy question, David. Do you think a book by an >> established critic like Vendler or Logan about 5 poets representing >> schools of poetry no established critic has every written seriously >> about, would be more worth writing than one about Levine? > ============== > > Yes, that's an easy question. The answer is: it depends on what they > write. Obviously, I meant if some critic like Vendler wrote a book of criticism at the level of the critic's other works, which would you rather the critic write about--Five poets as written-about as Levine, or five poets representing schools no well-known critic has seriously written about. > I don't have opinions about work I haven't read, I'm not surprised. > and I don't assume anything is automatically "better" based on the > criteria that you apply. Whenever anyone poses a question like mine, "better" means "according to the person asked." Why can't you meet these simple questions head-on? > > As usual you dodged my own point, incidentally. If I did, it wasn't intentional. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 18 21:51:07 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:51:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: <4E4DC86E.1030200@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net><17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8 @ripon.edu><4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net><097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu><4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net> <4E4DC86E.1030200@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <7D74DB6D-BDA3-47E1-9544-F6169788682E@ripon.edu> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> and I don't assume anything is automatically "better" based on the criteria that you apply. > > Whenever anyone poses a question like mine, "better" means "according to the person asked." Why can't you meet these simple questions head-on? >> ================= OK, this'll be the last from me on this go-round, Bob. I did meet your question head-on. I said that I don't have an opinion on something I haven't read. So I don't know which book would be "better," even according to me. I'd have to read it first. Is that hard to fathom? Nor do I think, as you evidently do, that it's automatically "better" to pay attention to a given poet just because that style hasn't been paid as much attention as, well, as the styles of poetry that most people actually enjoy reading. Plenty of great music to be written in C major, and all that. There could be a great book on Levine being written right now, for all I know. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 18 22:12:05 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:12:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One degree of separation In-Reply-To: References: <4E4BE724.9030606@louisiana.edu><438EA4FB-7266-4ED9-9955-D1DBEE4F3C1C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE2C2C869DDC80-1B18-3E5B5@webmail-m156.sysops.aol.com> Shivani is so adled in his thinking I'd be worried about giving the fellow more attention than the Huff Post pulpit already does. Although this kind of corruption is rampant in poetry, I note that HL Hix, a working workshop poet at the sop of the U. of Wyoming, gives Shavani's, I'm sure, brilliant critical book, Against the Workshop, a sheepish blurb... http://www.tamupress.com/product/Against-the-Workshop,6776.aspx Perhaps in return for Hix's being named to Shivani's top poetry book list of 2010, at numero uno... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/poetry-most-important-books-2010_b_795312.html#s204813&title=H_L_Hix Coincidence of course. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Weinstock To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:36 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Levine & drudgery Anis Shivani just called Levine a mediocrity. I'm going to Levine's reading at Bread Loaf tomorrow and will report back. Also, I've asked Seven Days, Vermont's "alternative" weekly, if they want a review of Shivani's upcoming book Against the Workshop. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Aug 18 23:56:40 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:56:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <8CE2C20E4236589-1478-FD3D@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu> <8CE2BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> <8CE2C20E4236589-1478-FD3D@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: > Certain high-demand poets could be reading 4 days a week,?40 or more?weeks a > year, if they accepted all of their invitations to read. In a way the steep > booking price creates a simple monetary barrier that keeps the poet/writer > from becoming a professional touring reader Or they could just, you know, say "no" and *still* not charge through the nose. c From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 00:15:41 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <4E4DAE20.1040408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1313727341.54242.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Samuel B: His fame came as a result of the plays(and they are singular, funny and haunting), but his prose is unlike anything I've ever read. First Love is amazing. Ditto Molley and Malone. & the rest ...? James Joyce's daughter was in love with Beckett. A sad story. Joyce's daughter ended her life in an asylum. You probably already know that Beckett was Joyce's secretary. He worshiped Joyce. --- On Thu, 8/18/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 18, 2011, 8:28 PM On 8/18/2011 5:37 PM, stephen russell wrote: Excellent story. I saw Albee at a local D.C. event, something called the Rockville Lit festival. Got 3 books signed (3 first editions). Three, that's the number of pulitzer prizes Albee has been awarded. Not bad, since his first play, Zoo Story, got performed (if I remember correctly) on a fluke. Didn't know the latter.? My other claim to fame re: Albee is that I saw Zoo Story during its first off-Broadway run--with your boy Sam B's Krapp's Last Tape, which I liked a lot better. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 02:54:23 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:54:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral Message-ID: Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and hosted their funerals prior to their death? Thanks for helping out. -- Obododimma. -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 19 08:04:43 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:04:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] & drudgery In-Reply-To: <7D74DB6D-BDA3-47E1-9544-F6169788682E@ripon.edu> References: <4E4C16EB.2070503@nut-n-but.net><17C9DC44-3D73-4597-AAFA-D9D0B0592FA8 @ripon.edu><4E4CB2BD.3000900@nut-n-but.net><097FDEE7-DF9D-414F-9419-A73A1F46ADC3@ripon.edu><4E4D8B92.1010404@nut-n-but.net><4E4DC86E.1030200@nut-n-but.net> <7D74DB6D-BDA3-47E1-9544-F6169788682E@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E4E515B.8050708@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 8:51 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> and I don't assume anything is automatically "better" based on the >>> criteria that you apply. >> >> Whenever anyone poses a question like mine, "better" means "according >> to the person asked." Why can't you meet these simple questions head-on? >>> > ================= > > OK, this'll be the last from me on this go-round, Bob. > > I did meet your question head-on. I said that I don't have an opinion > on something I haven't read. So I don't know which book would be > "better," even according to me. I'd have to read it first. Is that > hard to fathom? To me, it is, David. To me, I'm asking, to rephrase to meet your weirdly insistent need to avoid answering my question, is which of the two works I mention do you believe you would would turn out preferring having read if you were to read both. The question underlying this is do you believe a book by a prominent critic about poetry doing things no prominent critic has written about would be more valuable than a books by the same critic, at the same level of effectiveness, about poetry doing things many prominent critics have discussed. Your contention that you don't have opinions about books that you haven't read, by the way, seems unlikely. How is it, for example, that you haven't bought and read a book of my criticism but /have /bought and read many books by certified critics and read them if you have no opinion of any of those books? Do you have to read every book you read through to the end to develop an opinion of it, on the grounds that you can't have an opinion of any part you don't read, and that you need to in order to have an opinion of the book as a whole. Do you read every email sent you including spam all the way through? You must if you read any of them since you can't have an opinion of them without doing so. I tend to think your outlook is based on a fear of expressing an opinion that most people will consider wrong. I don't have that fear, so am quite able to form and express opinions without full knowledge of every fact having to do with the subject my opinion is about. I'm confident that if I'm wrong, I'll be able to change my mind. I'm also confident that this way I'll be able to say many more interesting things than a person who fears looking bad. > > Nor do I think, as you evidently do, that it's automatically "better" > to pay attention to a given poet just because that style hasn't been > paid as much attention as, well, as the styles of poetry that most > people actually enjoy reading. > But how will you know that you won't prefer the undiscussed style to the received style if all the commentators you're willing to read won't discuss it? Isn't that really having an opinion of something you haven't read, the opinion being that it's not at all a bad thing that only your sort of poetry be discussed by prominent critics? > Plenty of great music to be written in C major, and all that. There > could be a great book on Levine being written right now, for all I know. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion before reading it that a book that has a 1% chance of saying something interesting about a much-discussed poet will be better than one that covers an unfamiliar kind of poetry, but why can't you openly admit that you do? I have no trouble stating that I think another book on Levine by some prominent critic will have no chance at all of being as valuable as a book by the same critic about the kind of poets you consider the equivalent of cowboys kicking moose skulls and calling it baseball (or something close to that). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 19 08:09:15 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:09:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: References: <1313686464.40996.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><3F4A728D-95CD-4AA8-90AB-EB1D06B0FDDF@ripon.edu><8CE2 BF0CECFE1E9-29D8-390A1@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com><8CE2BFF15556FCC-19D8-20F0D@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com><8CE2C20E4236589-147 8-FD3D@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4E526B.8090006@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 10:56 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: >> Certain high-demand poets could be reading 4 days a week, 40 or more weeks a >> year, if they accepted all of their invitations to read. In a way the steep >> booking price creates a simple monetary barrier that keeps the poet/writer >> from becoming a professional touring reader > Or they could just, you know, say "no" and *still* not charge through the nose. > > c They have to charge through the nose. Otherwise the imbeciles paying them might accidentally give the money to poets composing poetry that . . . you know, Chris. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 19 08:11:52 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:11:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <1313727341.54242.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1313727341.54242.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4E5308.2030308@nut-n-but.net> On 8/18/2011 11:15 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Samuel B: His fame came as a result of the plays(and they are > singular, funny and haunting), but his prose is unlike anything I've > ever read. First Love is amazing. Ditto Molley andMalone. & the rest > ... James Joyce's daughter was in love with Beckett. A sad story. > Joyce's daughter ended her life in an asylum. > > You probably already know that Beckett was Joyce's secretary. He > worshiped Joyce. > I have to know that, Stephen--after all, I am the reincarnation of Joyce. Born on his birthday (2 February) a little over a week after he died. (Souls took a while to cross the Atlantic in those days.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 11:35:49 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Reminder=3A_Poets_on_the_Porch_2011_?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=93_Tomorrow_-_August_20th_/_Philadelphia=2C_PA?= Message-ID: <1313768149.39529.YahooMailNeo@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Come out and join us for our 2nd outdoor poetry event of the summer! August20th @ 1:00pm? The Fox Chase Reading Series presents a reading on the porch of Ryerss Museum and Library, 7370 Central Avenue, Philadlephia, Pa. 19111. The Fox Chase Reading Seriespresents the 2ndAnnual Poets on the Porchat Ryerss Museum and Library, 7370 Central Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa. 19111. Poets Dan Maguire, Lynn Levin, Ana Bo?i?evi?, Amy King, Elizabeth Pallitto join Fox Chase Poets Diane Sahms-Guarnieri and g emil reutter on the porch. Bring a porch chair and enjoy an afternoon of verse on the porch of the historic Ryerss Museum and Library. For more information on the poets please visit this link: Poets on the Porch 2011 ?August 20th Directions:? Ryerss Museum and Library is accessible by the SEPTA Fox Chase train line via the Ryers Station and Fox Chase Station, also via the SEPTA 70 and 24 bus routes. For directions to Ryerss Museum and Library visit: http://ryerssmuseum.org/visit1.html ? ? ********* Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 19 11:35:52 2011 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:35:52 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Obododimma Oha To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and hosted their funerals prior to their death? Thanks for helping out. -- Obododimma. -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 805 350 6604; ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 808 264 8060. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 19 13:27:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:27:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE2CAC60ECB1EC-1D18-2C97F@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> No writers/thinkers come to mind, but Robert Duvall starred in a recent movie, Get Low, that has this premise... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1194263/ -----Original Message----- From: David Bircumshaw To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:35 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com From: Obododimma Oha To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and hosted their funerals prior to their death? Thanks for helping out. -- Obododimma. -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 19 13:29:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:29:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 Message-ID: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:23:25 -0400 From: JoAnne Subject: Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 I write to inform WOMPOs of an upcoming poetry reading (of poetry with connections to mathematics) on Friday January 6, 5-7 PM in Boston's Hynes Convention Center at the annual Joint Mathematics Meetings . The editors of the Journal of Humanistic Mathematics have done the legwork to set up this reading and they have asked me to help with organizing it and inviting poets. Although the reading is an open one, without pre-selected readers, we will be preparing a written program of poets planning to attend (with bios and titles of their poems) and publicizing it through JHM, through my blog , and other publications. If you might be able to participate contact me at wow at joannegrowney.com to let me know of your interest and I will send more information as it becomes available. == -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Fri Aug 19 13:30:58 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:30:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4E9DD2.1020701@louisiana.edu> This is a fascinating question, which set me off on a chase. (I've often thought about orchestrating my own funeral, but somehow it's hard to get around to that task.) I thought this was a sure bet for the surrealists (and there's an hilarious mock-up in Clair's _Entr'acte_), but I couldn't nail down anything in particular. You can find a brief description on Google Books,_Dada and Surrealist Film_, p. 5. Then I found this about Surrealist hijinks surrounding Anatole France's funeral: For all of the above reasons [Anatole] France was given a state funeral; this in turn provided an ideal stage for the anti-bourgeois theatrics of the Surrealist movement. By 1924, Andre Breton and others had split away from the impromptu anarchy and nonsense poetry of the Dadaists, and towards a more directed "Surrealist Revolution." Their first public, orchestrated "scandal" was directed towards France and his funeral: they asked for official permission to open the casket and slap his corpse. Denied this, they handed out a pamphlet on the day of France's funeral entitled "A Corpse," in which Breton applauded the national tribute: "Let it be a holiday when we bury trickery, tradition, patriotism, opportunism, skepticism, and heartlessness.... His corpse should be put in an empty quayside box of the old books which he loved so much and thrown into the Seine. Dead, this man must produce dust no longer." Matching symbolism with symbolism, "A Corpse" was distributed among the estimated crowd of 200,000 which gathered to pay tribute to France, the funeral parade beginning in front of the Institute of France, near the bookshop of France's father, and proceeding along the Avenue des Champs-Elysees. Here's a link to an account of Pinter's funeral, which he "directed." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4045997/Harold-Pinter-directs-his-own-funeral.html When I tried googling "his own funeral," I got a page-full of Charlie Sheen and Michael Jackson nonsense. The best luck I had was combining "his[her] own funeral" with "service" and "writes" (I suppose you could add "writers" to this search)--that gives a nice bunch of responses, including my favorite: Wrote His Own Funeral Service Leadville, Col. Nov. 9.---A funeral service was held here this afternoon over the body of S. J. Searle, one of the best-known mining men of this district and commander of the local Grand Army post. Mr. Searle wrote his own funeral service long before he died, and it was read to-day in place of any religious service, which he strictly forbade. In his sermon he wrote that he had long been convinced that all religions were of human origin and were frauds that could only gain credence through ignorance and superstition, and declared that he could not form any idea of a soul that was to live after his body was dead. He closed by saying: "I leave the world with kindness to all men at at peace with my own mind, with no fears of an angry God and no hope or desire for any pleasures as a gift from His hand." The New York Times, Nov. 10, 1902 Best wishes, Jerry On 8/19/2011 1:54 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and > hosted their funerals prior to their death? > Thanks for helping out. > -- Obododimma. > > -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Fri Aug 19 13:41:24 2011 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 10:41:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sunday--Madison, WI: Trigilio, Fishman, Meier at Avol's Books Message-ID: <20110819104124.870ee2c6f4cdb7a25c6769c3e9ddf335.fb12715d1c.wbe@email06.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 13:54:09 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:54:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 In-Reply-To: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: James, you've made Bob's day! On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:29 PM, wrote: > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:23:25 -0400 > From: JoAnne > Subject: Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 > > I write to inform WOMPOs of an upcoming poetry reading (of poetry with > connections to mathematics) on Friday January 6, 5-7 PM in Boston's Hynes > Convention Center at the annual Joint Mathematics Meetings > . The editors of the Journal of > Humanistic Mathematics have done > the legwork to set up this reading and they have asked me to help with > organizing it and inviting poets. > > Although the reading is an open one, without pre-selected readers, we will > be preparing a written program of poets planning to attend (with bios and > titles of their poems) and publicizing it through JHM, through my blog > , and other publications. > > If you might be able to participate contact me at wow at joannegrowney.com to > let me know of your interest and I will send more information as it becomes > available. > > == > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 19 14:19:58 2011 From: bircumplus at yahoo.co.uk (David Bircumshaw) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:19:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313777998.88176.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ?Korr-ekted version: A?friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying farewell. I noticed people coming away smiling, unawares. I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley by mistake in Crete during WWII (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father who first illustrated Korky the Kat, he was NOT a recognised thinker/writer, and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. ? David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: David Bircumshaw To: NewPoetry List Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 16:35 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. David Bircumshaw Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Obododimma Oha To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and hosted their funerals prior to their death? Thanks for helping out. -- Obododimma. -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 805 350 6604; ? ? ? ? ? ? +234 808 264 8060. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 19 16:16:08 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:16:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 In-Reply-To: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4EC488.7080001@nut-n-but.net> On 8/19/2011 12:29 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:23:25 -0400 > From: JoAnne > > Subject: Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 > > I write to inform WOMPOs of an upcoming poetry reading (of poetry with > connections to mathematics) on Friday January 6, 5-7 PM in Boston's Hynes > Convention Center at the annual Joint Mathematics Meetings > . The editors of the Journal of > Humanistic Mathematics have done > the legwork to set up this reading and they have asked me to help with > organizing it and inviting poets. > > Although the reading is an open one, without pre-selected readers, we will > be preparing a written program of poets planning to attend (with bios and > titles of their poems) and publicizing it through JHM, through my blog > , and other publications. > > If you might be able to participate contact me at > wow at joannegrowney.com to > let me know of your interest and I will send more information as it > becomes > available. I am scheduled to be part of the program for some reason. Hope that doesn't keep others from wanting to participate. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 19 16:17:48 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:17:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math-poetry reading, Boston Jan 6, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <8CE2CACBB041C4C-1D18-2C9CE@webmail-d082.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4EC4EC.5070106@nut-n-but.net> On 8/19/2011 12:54 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > James, you've made Bob's day! Yeah, what's the matter with you, James!? --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 16:36:56 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:36:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Arthur Waley - Birthday Message-ID: Arthur Waley 19 Aug 1889 - Translated Tales of Genji, the Pillow Book, the I Ching, Tao Te Ching.. influenced great many - Carl Jung and many others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Waley Reading Arther Waley's Tales of Genji changed Donald Keene's life. *D26 Arthur Waley, Japan, and English-Language Verse * themargins.net David Ewick, Japonisme, Orientalism, Modernism: A Critical Bibliography of Japan in Anglo-American Verse. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 16:57:32 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:57:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anniversaries, Anesthesia, and Elizabeth Bishop Message-ID: http://www.themillions.com/2011/08/anniversaries-anesthesia-and-elizabeth-bishop.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 17:37:37 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:37:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Living off poetry In-Reply-To: <4E4E5308.2030308@nut-n-but.net> References: <1313727341.54242.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E4E5308.2030308@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: They might want to choose their own "free" and/or low-fee engagements. Robert Hass has read to classes of elementary children at his grandchildren's public school. I attended one of these readings and it was a lovely experience. Others have read for little money, or raised their own funds for the event, at our high school. On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 5:11 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/18/2011 11:15 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > Samuel B: His fame came as a result of the plays(and they are singular, > funny and haunting), but his prose is unlike anything I've ever read. First > Love is amazing. Ditto Molley and Malone. & the rest ... James Joyce's > daughter was in love with Beckett. A sad story. Joyce's daughter ended her > life in an asylum. > > You probably already know that Beckett was Joyce's secretary. He worshiped > Joyce. > > > > I have to know that, Stephen--after all, I am the reincarnation of Joyce. > Born on his birthday (2 February) a little over a week after he died. > (Souls took a while to cross the Atlantic in those days.) > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com Fri Aug 19 17:38:09 2011 From: tichaona at inthewhirlwind.com (Tichaona Chinyelu) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:38:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Poetry posted Message-ID: <20110819143809.06739fca92e8a33e1cdb4ae2881c2177.0148b8c680.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 14:50:42 2011 From: chris.murray.bahrain at gmail.com (chris murray) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 13:50:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anniversaries, Anesthesia, and Elizabeth Bishop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good one, Anny--thanks. cm On 8/19/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: > http://www.themillions.com/2011/08/anniversaries-anesthesia-and-elizabeth-bishop.html > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 03:55:52 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 00:55:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: <1313777998.88176.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1313777998.88176.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, everyone, for providing these very helpful responses. -- Obododimma. On 8/19/11, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Korr-ekted version: > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > farewell. I noticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley by mistake in Crete during WWII > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > who first illustrated Korky the Kat, he was NOT a recognised thinker/writer, > and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > David Bircumshaw > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > ________________________________ > From: David Bircumshaw > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 16:35 > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and > therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > David Bircumshaw > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > Blog: > http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > ________________________________ > From: Obododimma Oha > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" > > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 > Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and > hosted their funerals prior to their death? > Thanks for helping out. > -- Obododimma. > > > -- > *Obododimma Oha* > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 21 10:33:01 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:33:01 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: References: , <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>, <1313777998.88176.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: He never read Walt Whitman. > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 00:55:52 -0700 > From: obodooha at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > Thanks, everyone, for providing these very helpful responses. > -- Obododimma. > > > On 8/19/11, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > Korr-ekted version: > > > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > > farewell. I noticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley by mistake in Crete during WWII > > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > > who first illustrated Korky the Kat, he was NOT a recognised thinker/writer, > > and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > > Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: David Bircumshaw > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 16:35 > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > > > > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > > farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII > > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > > who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and > > therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > > Blog: > > http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Obododimma Oha > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" > > > > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > > > Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and > > hosted their funerals prior to their death? > > Thanks for helping out. > > -- Obododimma. > > > > > > -- > > *Obododimma Oha* > > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > > Dept. of English > > University of Ibadan > > Nigeria > > > > & > > > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > > University of Ibadan > > > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > > +234 805 350 6604; > > +234 808 264 8060. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > *Obododimma Oha* > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 21 11:16:43 2011 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:16:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral In-Reply-To: References: , , <1313768152.43274.YahooMailNeo@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>, , <1313777998.88176.YahooMailNeo@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>, , , Message-ID: Strike the wording on that remark. What I meant to say is that if what Whitman attested is true,he would have attended his own massive funeral bearing witness to it, moving in the crowds, enjoying the weather,just to prove that everything he had attested was true. From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:33:01 +0000 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral He never read Walt Whitman. > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 00:55:52 -0700 > From: obodooha at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > Thanks, everyone, for providing these very helpful responses. > -- Obododimma. > > > On 8/19/11, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > Korr-ekted version: > > > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > > farewell. I noticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley by mistake in Crete during WWII > > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > > who first illustrated Korky the Kat, he was NOT a recognised thinker/writer, > > and therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > > Blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: David Bircumshaw > > To: NewPoetry List > > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 16:35 > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > > > > > A friend of mine did, it was a preferable by far experience to the usual > > routine: it was impossible to escape the sense that he was there saying > > farewell. inoticed people coming away smiling, unawares. > > I'm afraid that although he wrote a short collection of poems, worked with > > the homeless and as a university doctor (of medicine, to students and > > staff), lead a platoon up a blind alley bt mistake in Crete during WWII > > (they all survived: the Germans were equally incompetent) and had a father > > who first illustrated Korky the Cat, he was a recognised thinker/writer, and > > therefore Not a Real Person, so I'll forbear his name. > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Website: http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk > > Blog: > > http://groggydays.blogspot.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Obododimma Oha > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > ; "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" > > > > Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011, 7:54 > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Hosting One's Funeral > > > > Does anyone have information on any thinkers/writers that arranged and > > hosted their funerals prior to their death? > > Thanks for helping out. > > -- Obododimma. > > > > > > -- > > *Obododimma Oha* > > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > > Dept. of English > > University of Ibadan > > Nigeria > > > > & > > > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > > University of Ibadan > > > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > > +234 805 350 6604; > > +234 808 264 8060. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > *Obododimma Oha* > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 21 12:05:13 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 11:05:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "10 Poems I Love to Teach" Message-ID: For the teachers in the congregation, an article by Eric Selinger, "Ten Poems I Love to Teach," poems with commentary. Very interesting: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/article/237910 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 13:22:16 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:22:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "10 Poems I Love to Teach" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many thanks for sharing this, David. Obododimma. On 8/21/11, David Graham wrote: > For the teachers in the congregation, an article by Eric Selinger, "Ten > Poems I Love to Teach," poems with commentary. Very interesting: > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/article/237910 > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 13:22:16 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:22:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "10 Poems I Love to Teach" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many thanks for sharing this, David. Obododimma. On 8/21/11, David Graham wrote: > For the teachers in the congregation, an article by Eric Selinger, "Ten > Poems I Love to Teach," poems with commentary. Very interesting: > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/article/237910 > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 22 09:01:14 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:01:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists Message-ID: <8CE2EE2B509E1C8-1BB0-3866@web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com> Wednesday, August 17 to Sunday, October 16, 2011Joel and Lila Harnett Museum of Art On view in the Harnett Museum of Art, University of Richmond Museums, from August 17 to October 16, 2011, Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists features 72 works created between 1960 and 2011, that include text or reference textual elements. Many of the works reflect developments in modern and contemporary art and critical theory, and relate to concurrent politics, history, and philosophy. Among the more than 40 artists included in the exhibition are Alice Aycock, Trisha Brown, Dan Flavin, Jane Hammond, Jasper Johns, Sol LeWitt, Ed Ruscha, Karen Schiff, Cy Twombly, John Waters, and Lawrence Weiner. http://museums.richmond.edu/exhibitions/museum-of-art/art-text-art.html Welcome to the online catalogue for Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists, an exhibition of 72 works of art by 45 artists drawn from the collection of Sally and Wynn Kramarsky. http://www.artequalstext.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 22 12:23:51 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:23:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists In-Reply-To: <8CE2EE2B509E1C8-1BB0-3866@web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2EE2B509E1C8-1BB0-3866@web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E528297.6070205@nut-n-but.net> On 8/22/2011 8:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Wednesday, August 17 to Sunday, October 16, 2011Joel and Lila Harnett > Museum of Art > > On view in the Harnett Museum of Art, University of Richmond Museums, > from August 17 to October 16, 2011, */Art=Text=Art: Works by > Contemporary Artists/* features 72 works created between 1960 and > 2011, that include text or reference textual elements. Many of the > works reflect developments in modern and contemporary art and critical > theory, and relate to concurrent politics, history, and philosophy. > Among the more than 40 artists included in the exhibition are Alice > Aycock, Trisha Brown, Dan Flavin, Jane Hammond, Jasper Johns, Sol > LeWitt, Ed Ruscha, Karen Schiff, Cy Twombly, John Waters, and Lawrence > Weiner. > http://museums.richmond.edu/exhibitions/museum-of-art/art-text-art.html > Welcome to the online catalogue for /Art=Text=Art: Works by > Contemporary Artists/, an exhibition of 72 works of art by 45 artists > drawn from the collection of Sally and Wynn Kramarsky. > http://www.artequalstext.com/ One interesting thing about events like this is the near-complete chasm between visual poets and visual artists like the ones in the above exhibit--almost like the two cultures of science and art, except for how closely related visual artists like Ruscha are to visual poets. My blog, however, has often featured work of many of the visual artists in this exhibit. Most of it I consider textual design, but some of it is visual poetry although never called that. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 22 12:02:27 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:02:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists In-Reply-To: <4E528297.6070205@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CE2EE2B509E1C8-1BB0-3866@web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com> <4E528297.6070205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE2EFC05FC8D96-E18-4EFE0@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> I met this artist yesterday, Bronlyn Jones. The first image is actually a drawing of a notebook page. The second piece displayed called, Erasure List, she reads recursively (repeating half phrases before moving to the next) rather than exactly as written... http://www.artequalstext.com/bronlyn-jones/ Could be the divide is based on: Those who came out of art school who then gravitated to the use of text, versus those who started as writers who then pushed their work into the visual art realm. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists On 8/22/2011 8:01 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Wednesday, August 17 to Sunday, October 16, 2011Joel and Lila Harnett Museum of Art On view in the Harnett Museum of Art, University of Richmond Museums, from August 17 to October 16, 2011, Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists features 72 works created between 1960 and 2011, that include text or reference textual elements. Many of the works reflect developments in modern and contemporary art and critical theory, and relate to concurrent politics, history, and philosophy. Among the more than 40 artists included in the exhibition are Alice Aycock, Trisha Brown, Dan Flavin, Jane Hammond, Jasper Johns, Sol LeWitt, Ed Ruscha, Karen Schiff, Cy Twombly, John Waters, and Lawrence Weiner. http://museums.richmond.edu/exhibitions/museum-of-art/art-text-art.html Welcome to the online catalogue for Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists, an exhibition of 72 works of art by 45 artists drawn from the collection of Sally and Wynn Kramarsky. http://www.artequalstext.com/ One interesting thing about events like this is the near-complete chasm between visual poets and visual artists like the ones in the above exhibit--almost like the two cultures of science and art, except for how closely related visual artists like Ruscha are to visual poets. My blog, however, has often featured work of many of the visual artists in this exhibit. Most of it I consider textual design, but some of it is visual poetry although never called that. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 14:31:58 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Master of Fine Arts? Message-ID: <1314037918.13438.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> My research indicates that Bob Grumman was born on February 2, 1941, the year of James Joye's death. & that James Joyce was born several decades earlier, on February the second. I need to confirm this info. My detective is busy. Has the master returned? We musn't rush to conclusions ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 22 16:04:33 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:04:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art=Text=Art: Works by Contemporary Artists In-Reply-To: <8CE2EFC05FC8D96-E18-4EFE0@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2EE2B509E1C8-1BB0-3866@web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com><4E528297.6070205@nut-n-but.net> <8CE2EFC05FC8D96-E18-4EFE0@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E52B651.9020704@nut-n-but.net> On 8/22/2011 11:02 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I met this artist yesterday, Bronlyn Jones. The first image is > actually a drawing of a notebook page. > The second piece displayed called, Erasure List, she reads recursively > (repeating half phrases before > moving to the next) rather than exactly as written... > http://www.artequalstext.com/bronlyn-jones/ > Could be the divide is based on: Those who came out of art school who > then gravitated to the use of text, > versus those who started as writers who then pushed their work into > the visual art realm. > Finnegan I agree. What interests me is how little most in both groups try to learn about the other group. Also how rarely a gallery or museum mixes works from both groups. But there are lots of explanations, one being that the visual artists working with texts are as recognized for their work by visual art critics as other visual artists, whereas visual poets are marginal for poetry critics. Anyway, it seems to old story of separation of disciplines. Fairly understandable, one's own discipline usually having more than enough in it to keep one occupied without branching out. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 22 16:01:15 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:01:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Codrescu on Olson, Gloucester Writers Center Message-ID: <8CE2F1D61F32D8F-E08-BC1D@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> http://www.gloucestertimes.com/local/x1699202100/NPRs-Codrescu-marking-Gloucester-Writers-Center Andrei Codrescu, an award-winning poet, writer and National Public Radio commentator, is coming to Gloucester to celebrate the first year of the city's fledgling Gloucester Writers Center. Codrescu has been called one of the most "magical" writers by critics, and although the two never met, Codrescu was deeply influenced by one of Gloucester's own writers, Charles Olson (1910-1970), often called the first American modernist poet. "Olson was Gloucester's Sheherezade," Codrescu said of the poet who forever challenged those around him, whether it was his students at the experimental Black Mountain College in the 1950s, or aspiring poets or writers, or those Gloucester residents who knew him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Aug 22 16:02:57 2011 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:02:57 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Master of Fine Arts? In-Reply-To: <1314037918.13438.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314037918.13438.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Bob is sui generis . There is BOB - "But One Bob" - a recursive backcronym (or maetacronym), just as it should be if you think about it. But don't think about it too hard... c On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:31 AM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > My research indicates that Bob Grumman was born on February 2, 1941, the > year of James Joye's death. & that James Joyce was born several decades > earlier, on February the second. I need to confirm this info. My detective > is busy. Has the master returned? We musn't rush to conclusions ... > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 22 17:53:32 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:53:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Codrescu on Olson, Gloucester Writers Center In-Reply-To: <8CE2F1D61F32D8F-E08-BC1D@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE2F1D61F32D8F-E08-BC1D@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E52CFDC.9040009@nut-n-but.net> On 8/22/2011 3:01 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.gloucestertimes.com/local/x1699202100/NPRs-Codrescu-marking-Gloucester-Writers-Center > Andrei Codrescu, an award-winning poet, writer and National Public > Radio commentator, is coming to Gloucester to celebrate the first year > of the city's fledgling Gloucester Writers Center. > Codrescu has been called one of the most "magical" writers by critics, > and although the two never met, Codrescu was deeply influenced by one > of Gloucester's own writers, Charles Olson (1910-1970), often called > the first American modernist poet. Surely, "first American POST-modernist poet" is meant? "Post-modernism," may be number one on my list of stupidest poetics terms, by the way. "Modern" is bad but has been around long enough to work well enough for second-level critical work. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 22 18:01:46 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:01:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Master of Fine Arts? In-Reply-To: References: <1314037918.13438.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E52D1CA.70002@nut-n-but.net> On 8/22/2011 3:02 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > Bob is sui generis . There is BOB - "But One Bob" - a recursive > backcronym (or maetacronym), just as it should be if you think about > it. But don't think about it too hard... > > c . You got it, Chris. And "BOB" remains "BOB" when you turn it over downward (or upward). This is important! And the BOB WAS the reincarnation of James Joyce until the anniversary of Joyce's death around thirteen years ago when his soul desserted BOB's brain for points unknown. The soul of Farrah Fawcett. also born on 2 February, took over the brain of the BOB, which accounts for his new, extremely charming personality. --his caretaker From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 22 17:52:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:52:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Edward Thomas and the Great War Message-ID: <8CE2F2CDB0703A8-678-8F0C9@webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0813/1224302349495.html Now all Roads Lead to France tells the story of Edward Thomas and his almost-40-year life, concentrating upon the ?last years? as Thomas is eventually drawn into the maelstrom of war and his death in Arras, April 1917: ?The Allied assault was so immense that some Germans were captured half-dressed; others did not have time to put on their boots and fled barefoot through the mud and snow. British troops sang and danced in what only a few hours before had been no-man?s-land. Edward Thomas left the dugout behind his post and leaned into the opening to take a moment to fill his pipe. A shell passed so close to him that the blast of air stopped his heart. He fell without a mark on his body.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Aug 22 20:53:00 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:53:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP fun Message-ID: <2321AE9F-FE1D-4F5A-8422-6FE35CBE2A41@ripon.edu> For those who love or love to hate the annual AWP conference, here's a pretty nifty spoof program somebody's produced: http://www.full-stop.net/2011/08/18/blog/the-editors/awp-2012/ My personal favorite session is: How to Market Your Poetry Chapbook. Just kidding. Lunch time. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 22 21:10:56 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:10:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP fun In-Reply-To: <2321AE9F-FE1D-4F5A-8422-6FE35CBE2A41@ripon.edu> References: <2321AE9F-FE1D-4F5A-8422-6FE35CBE2A41@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4E52FE20.3040201@louisiana.edu> An easy target, maybe--but so am I, no doubt. And it's nice to see that _someone_ manages to sustain a sense of humor. Jerry On 8/22/2011 7:53 PM, David Graham wrote: > For those who love or love to hate the annual AWP conference, here's a > pretty nifty spoof program somebody's produced: > > http://www.full-stop.net/2011/08/18/blog/the-editors/awp-2012/ > > My personal favorite session is: > > * How to Market Your Poetry Chapbook. *Just kidding. Lunch time. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 09:58:34 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:58:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP fun In-Reply-To: <4E52FE20.3040201@louisiana.edu> References: <2321AE9F-FE1D-4F5A-8422-6FE35CBE2A41@ripon.edu> <4E52FE20.3040201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Will leave some for later... :-) posted on Facebook and right there, I mean _zap_ someone 'liked' it. I might be a slow snail reader, but... On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:10 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > An easy target, maybe--but so am I, no doubt. And it's nice to see that > _someone_ manages to sustain a sense of humor. > > Jerry > > On 8/22/2011 7:53 PM, David Graham wrote: > > For those who love or love to hate the annual AWP conference, here's a > pretty nifty spoof program somebody's produced: > > http://www.full-stop.net/2011/08/18/blog/the-editors/awp-2012/ > > My personal favorite session is: > > * How to Market Your Poetry Chapbook. *Just kidding. Lunch time. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 10:41:06 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:41:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] how a poem happens Message-ID: <8CE2FB9D372A732-E50-3DBFA@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> Marilyn Nelson on How A Poem Happens http://howapoemhappens.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Aug 23 11:47:53 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:47:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Pedestal 65 Now Online In-Reply-To: <4728174.1314107409640.JavaMail.SYSTEM@WASHINGTON> References: <4728174.1314107409640.JavaMail.SYSTEM@WASHINGTON> Message-ID: <4E53CBA9.9010705@nut-n-but.net> In this issue of /Pedestal/ is my third positive review for it of a Wilshberian poet, this one Edward Nudelman. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Pedestal 65 Now Online Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: The Pedestal Magazine Reply-To: pedmagazine at carolina.rr.com To: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Hi, I hope you enjoy /Pedestal 65/. Please see the information below regarding /Mobius, The Poetry Magazine;/ the I Care Book Fair presented by Mothering Across Continents; submissions for /Pedestal/'s October issue; and other related matters. All my best, John Amen August 21, 2011 */Pedestal 65/* *Poetry* (introduction by editor Arlene Ang) by Adam Hughes, Victoria Kelly, Wendy Miles, Christopher Shipman, C. John Graham, Rachel L. Snyder, Mary Elizabeth Parker, John Hazard, David Salner, Rick Bursky, Jennifer Poteet, and Michelle Reale. *Fiction* (introduction by editor Matthew Katz) by Louisa Peck, Robert Earle, Stephanie Kaplan Cohen, and Charles Rafferty. *Reviews* by JoSelle Vanderhooft, Cindy Hochman, Bob Grumman, Alice Osborn, Linda Lerner, and Emilia Fuentes Grant. */_Mobius, The Poetry Magazine for Sale _/* Juanita Torrence-Thompson, Editor-in-Chief/Publisher/Owner of internationally acclaimed /Mobius, The Poetry Magazine/, seeks poets, editors, colleges, or organizations interested in purchasing and publishing 29 year-old print magazine. Serious buyers only. Previous contributors include Rita Dove, Nikki Giovanni, Marge Piercy, Robert Bly, Sonia Sanchez, Cornelius Eady, Yusef Komunyakaa, Diane Wakoski, and Hal Sirowitz. www.mobiuspoetry.com . For more information and to explore details, email mobiusmag at earthlink.net . */_The I Care Book Fair Presented by Mothering Across Continents _/* The I Care Book Fair , presented by Mothering Across Continents (MAC), is a marketplace of inspiring books about adults and children making courageous commitments to serve communities around the world. A portion of the book sales help fund MAC's support of projects in places such as Haiti, South Africa, Rwanda, and southern Sudan. The selections underline MAC's idea that in a global era "maternal instincts" and "mothering" often extend well beyond our own families and geographic borders. We invite you to check out these books - get inspired AND donate to a worthy organization all at the same time. */_Submissions for October 2011 Issue (reading cycle August 28-October 14) _/* *Poetry *submissions are "open," no restrictions on style, theme, length, or genre. *Fiction* submissions: Maximum length = 1,500 words. The story MUST contain the sentence, "Nobody thought that was where it was supposed to go." Visit the website for additional information. */_Survey _/* In an attempt to update our records and be as attuned to our readers as possible, we're continuing to conduct a survey. If you would like to participate, you can access the questionnaire directly by visiting: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=8odQRZ3iP_2frJZbpfIMOSzg_3d_3d. The survey is also accessible via /The Pedestal/ site (you will need to temporarily deactivate your pop-up blocker in order for the survey window to appear on the homepage). Thank you in advance for your involvement. */Advertising with The Pedestal Magazine/* Advertise in /The Pedestal Magazine's/ newsletter, which goes out monthly to 25,000+ opt-in subscribers. Visit the advert ising section or write us at pedmagazine at carolina.rr.com for more information. Advertising with /Pedestal/ is a great way to let thousands of people know about your book, product, magazine, and/or services. If you enjoy reading /The Pedestal Magazine/, please consider giving a tax-deductible donation of at least $10 in honor of our 10th anniversary of providing high-quality literature with no charge to our readers. You can make a donation online by visiting: http://www.thepedestalmagazine.com/page.php?pid=17. The site is completely secure, and your credit card/Paypal information will remain totally confidential. Or, if you would prefer to mail your donation, you can send a check to: /The Pedestal Magazine/; 6815 Honors Court; Charlotte, NC 28210. If you have questions, please free to email us at pedmagazine at carolina.rr.com. Credits: 1) "Still Life #8" by Z. Sorensen, 2) Logo image for /Mobius, the Poetry Magazine/, 3) Logo image related to the I Care Book Fair. To tell a friend about this message, please click here . This message was originally sent to bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net. To view and update your preferences, please click here . To remove yourself from our list, please click here . This Broadcast is Copyrighted 2009, The Pedestal Magazine. 6815 Honors Court Charlotte, NC 28210 - 704.643.0244 The ListWriter Broadcast Mailing System is an exclusive tool of CC Communications, Inc. 421 Minuet Lane, Suite 204 - Charlotte, NC 28217 - 704.543.1171 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 10:47:08 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:47:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP fun In-Reply-To: <4E52FE20.3040201@louisiana.edu> References: <2321AE9F-FE1D-4F5A-8422-6FE35CBE2A41@ripon.edu> <4E52FE20.3040201@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CE2FBAAAED5F72-E50-3DCE1@webmail-d004.sysops.aol.com> Very fun indeed...here's something in the same vein that I did a few years back-- http://ursprache.blogspot.com/2009/07/low-responsibility-mfa.html -----Original Message----- From: Jerry McGuire To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 9:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] AWP fun An easy target, maybe--but so am I, no doubt. And it's nice to see that _someone_ manages to sustain a sense of humor. Jerry On 8/22/2011 7:53 PM, David Graham wrote: For those who love or love to hate the annual AWP conference, here's a pretty nifty spoof program somebody's produced: http://www.full-stop.net/2011/08/18/blog/the-editors/awp-2012/ My personal favorite session is: How to Market Your Poetry Chapbook. Just kidding. Lunch time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 12:08:41 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 18:08:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Message-ID: Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a theophany? Thank you for your help, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 13:00:40 2011 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and there are others in the collection. ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ ? les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a theophany? Thank you for your help, Anny -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 14:35:55 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 20:35:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, not even on the French sites. Can you remember the title, that might be easier. On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and there > are others in the collection. > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a > theophany? > Thank you for your help, Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 23 14:57:59 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:57:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> I know you've already more or less closed off this thread, but I just stumbled on a note (in the Introduction to Angela Carter's collected short fiction, _Burning Your Boats_) that points out that "She planned her funeral carefully." I suspect (and hope) there's more written about that somewhere. Jerry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 23 15:16:41 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:16:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Samuel Menashe Message-ID: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2011/08/samuel-menashe-1925-2011/ -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 15:38:50 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:38:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Samuel Menashe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Samuel Menashe was here in Middlebury about 10 years ago, and happened to see a poster for one of my poetry events. He phoned me and asked if I wanted to come to his inn and meet. I had never heard of him before, but went and had a lovely 3-hour chat with him. Later he mailed me one of his books. . Quite unclassifiable, very memorable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 16:25:04 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 16:25:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE2FE9E0A28A45-1FBC-7531@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Anny, No particular poems comes to mind, but these might be some other suspects, because of their mystical Christian tendencies... Angelus Silesius George Herbert Gerard Manley Hopkins Gabriela Mistral St.John of the Cross Sor Juana de la Cruz Thomas Merton Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2011 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, not even on the French sites. Can you remember the title, that might be easier. On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and there are others in the collection. www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From: Anny Ballardini To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a theophany? Thank you for your help, Anny -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 17:11:20 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 17:11:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Ireland's Pearce Hutchinson Message-ID: <8CE2FF05727A2AF-1FBC-7C9A@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0820/1224302734452.html Reading Pearse Hutchinson: From Findrum to Fisterra Edited by Philip Coleman and Maria Johnston Irish Academic Press. 286pp. ?50 In one of the pieces gathered here, Robert Welch gives us a vignette of the poet walking in Leeds: ?It was a jaunty thing, this walk. It had an edge to it, a kind of sharp readiness to take on things . . . [I]t was a rhythmic facing into the freshness of what happens.? In describing the walk he is, of course, also creating a snapshot of the poetry ? jaunty, edgy, combining rich, sometimes opposed or contradictory flavours: its love of strong sun and the cultures that flourish in it, but also ?the quartz glory? of Connemara and Irish, its sensuality tempered by a northern grittiness. Translation has always been at the heart of the enterprise, as Welch and others rightly emphasise. The languages and cultures he encounters ? medieval Galicio-Portuguese, contemporary Catalan, Galician, Portuguese and Castilian as well as Irish ? are not simply external associations but form part of a single creative continuum, a world view and a soundscape where ?cicada, chameleon, lagarto? can rub shoulders, where Catalan, Irish and English can occupy the same poem and not seem strange to each other. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 17:13:31 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 17:13:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] La Dispute Message-ID: <8CE2FF0A5373C30-1FBC-7CDB@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2011/08/23/139855535/la-dispute-half-spoken-explosions?ps=mh_frhdl2 Poetry is a large part of La Dispute, even down to musical readings of Edgar Allan Poe. But it all comes through the whole experience. So here's a silly question: What poet should have fronted a post-hardcore band? And which band? I'm going to say more of a difficult question than a silly question. But I guess silly, too. And kind of fun. First off, it should be noted that picturing any notable poet as the singer of a hardcore or post-hardcore band makes for a pretty hilarious mental image. T.S. Eliot stage-diving or Emily Dickinson passing the microphone? Great stuff. Second off, I spent the last day thinking about this and haven't come up with an adequate response. I will say this: I think raging against the dying of the light is a pretty punk concept, so Dylan Thomas would've probably been a great frontman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Aug 23 17:55:38 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 21:55:38 +0000 (GMT+00:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Message-ID: <33329068.1314136539380.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 23 19:58:41 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:58:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] When poets go to war Message-ID: <8CE3007B7C4D2DC-1518-3AD08@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/cultural-capital/2011/08/poetry-society-poets-presses When poets go to war Posted by Daniel Barrow - 16 August 2011 17:10 It's time for the Poetry Society to reconnect with the grassroots. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Aug 23 22:33:13 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 22:33:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Message-ID: <25659751.1314153193653.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 07:35:33 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:35:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: <8CE2FE9E0A28A45-1FBC-7531@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <8CE2FE9E0A28A45-1FBC-7531@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Finnegan! Do you maybe have a poem to share? Thanks, anny On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:25 PM, wrote: > Anny, > No particular poems comes to mind, but these might be some other suspects, > because of their mystical Christian tendencies... > Angelus Silesius > George Herbert > Gerard Manley Hopkins > Gabriela Mistral > St.John of the Cross > Sor Juana de la Cruz > Thomas Merton > Finnegan > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2011 2:35 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, not even on the > French sites. Can you remember the title, that might be easier. > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > >> Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and >> there are others in the collection. >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] theophanies >> >> Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a >> theophany? >> Thank you for your help, Anny >> >> -- >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 07:31:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:31:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: <25659751.1314153193653.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25659751.1314153193653.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thank you Alex and Mark, I copied it, you should need it: Les ?clairs n?ont-ils pas la m?me forme ? l??tranger? Quelqu?un qui se trouva chez mes parents discutait de la couleur du ciel. Y a-t-il des ?clairs ? C??tait un nuage rose qui s?avan?ait. Oh ! que tout changea ! Mon Dieu ! Est-il possible que ta r?alit? soit si vivante ? La maison paternelle est l? ; les marronniers son coll?s ? la fen?tre, la pr?fecture est coll?e aux marronniers, le mont Frugy est coll? ? la pr?fecture : les cimes seules, rien que les cimes. Une voix annon?a : ? Dieu ! ? et il se fit une clart? dans la nuit. Un corps ?norme cacha la moiti? du paysage. Etait-ce Lui ? ?tait-ce Job ? Il ?tait pauvre ; il montrait une chair perc?e, ses cuisses ?taient cach?es par un linge ; que de larmes, ? Seigneur ! Il descendait? Comment ? Alors descendirent aussi des couples plus grands que nature. Ils venaient de l?air dans des caisses, dans des ?ufs de P?ques : ils riaient et le balcon de la maison paternelle fut encombr? de fils noirs comme la poudre. On avait peur. Les couples s?install?rent dans la maison paternelle et nous les surveillions par la fen?tre. Car ils ?taient m?chants. Il y avait des fils noirs jusque sur la nappe de la table ? manger et mes fr?res d?montraient des cartouches Lebel. Depuis, je suis surveill? par la police. Max Jacob, *Cornet ? d?s*, 1914. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:33 AM, wrote: > Anny: It's quoted complete at > http://books.google.com/books?id=pCmj82cVD2oC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=%22les+eclairs+n%27ont-ils+pas+la+meme+forme%22&source=bl&ots=O9XdnvAZvh&sig=OcyB2aHhUHa5vQNdkygrk-JiYLs&hl=en&ei=ClhUTq-FJ4TC0AHWuczEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false. > Begins second line on the page. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini ** > Sent: Aug 23, 2011 2:35 PM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, not even on the > French sites. Can you remember the title, that might be easier. > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > >> Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and >> there are others in the collection. >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] theophanies >> >> Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a >> theophany? >> Thank you for your help, Anny >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:04:03 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 05:04:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Many thanks for this find, Jerry. Will look for this work. Warm regards. Obododimma. On 8/23/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I know you've already more or less closed off this thread, but I just > stumbled on a note (in the Introduction to Angela Carter's collected > short fiction, _Burning Your Boats_) that points out that "She planned > her funeral carefully." I suspect (and hope) there's more written about > that somewhere. > > Jerry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 08:25:54 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:25:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for the speaker's funeral. -----Original Message----- From: Obododimma Oha To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] funerals Many thanks for this find, Jerry. Will look for this work. arm regards. bododimma. n 8/23/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: I know you've already more or less closed off this thread, but I just stumbled on a note (in the Introduction to Angela Carter's collected short fiction, _Burning Your Boats_) that points out that "She planned her funeral carefully." I suspect (and hope) there's more written about that somewhere. Jerry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 - Obododimma Oha* ttp://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) ept. of English niversity of Ibadan igeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies niversity of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:39:53 2011 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:39:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I wonder if WCW's own funeral was indeed based on "Tract." Anybody know? On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 8:25 AM, wrote: > It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for > the speaker's funeral. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Obododimma Oha > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] funerals > > Many thanks for this find, Jerry. Will look for this work. > Warm regards. > Obododimma. > > > On 8/23/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: > > I know you've already more or less closed off this thread, but I just > > stumbled on a note (in the Introduction to Angela Carter's collected > > short fiction, _Burning Your Boats_) that points out that "She planned > > her funeral carefully." I suspect (and hope) there's more written about > > that somewhere. > > > > Jerry > > > > > > -- > > Prof. Jerry McGuire > > Dept. of English > > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > > 337-482-5478 > > > > > > > > > -- > *Obododimma Oha*http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- David Weinstock david.weinstock at gmail.com 802-388-6939 802-989-4314 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Aug 24 08:44:33 2011 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 07:44:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's Blues.". Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for the speaker's funeral. > > > ----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:57:47 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 05:57:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Great. Thanks for that. Regards. Obododimma. On 8/24/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for > the speaker's funeral. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Obododimma Oha > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] funerals > > > Many thanks for this find, Jerry. Will look for this work. > arm regards. > bododimma. > > n 8/23/11, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I know you've already more or less closed off this thread, but I just > stumbled on a note (in the Introduction to Angela Carter's collected > short fiction, _Burning Your Boats_) that points out that "She planned > her funeral carefully." I suspect (and hope) there's more written about > that somewhere. > > Jerry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > > - > Obododimma Oha* > ttp://udude.wordpress.com/ > (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) > ept. of English > niversity of Ibadan > igeria > & > *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > niversity of Ibadan > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > ______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 09:20:04 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:20:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu><8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJXpo6unCw Here's one my favorites... Doc Watson's St. James Hospital Early one morning at the St. James Hospital Early one morning morn in the month of May When i looked through the window and a spyed a dear cowboy A dear cowboy as cold as the clay Set ye down by me and hear my sad story Set ye down by me and sing me a song For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking I'm a poor cowboy that knowed he done wrong Send for that doctor to come heal up my body And send the preacher to come and pray for my soul For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking I'm a poor cowboy and hell is my doom Get sixteen perdy maidens to come and carry my coffin Sixteen perdy maidens to come and sing me a song And tell em to bring some o'them sweet smelling roses So they cant smell me as they tote me along Beat the drums slowly and play the fife lowly Play the death march as ye carry me along Throw bunches of lillies all over my coffin Thare goes a poor cowboy that knowd he done wrong == Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's Blues.". Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for the speaker's funeral. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 24 11:01:02 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:01:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies Message-ID: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 11:30:25 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:30:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu> <8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I love it. Fits into my Old-West spirit. Many thanks for bringing to my attention. Interestingly, I'm soaking up my afternoon drinking something very bitter and alcoholic and playing Alan Jackson. It's been a day, like for the Mountain Man... -Obododimma. On 8/24/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJXpo6unCw > Here's one my favorites... > Doc Watson's > St. James Hospital > > Early one morning at the St. James Hospital > Early one morning morn in the month of May > When i looked through the window and a spyed a dear cowboy > A dear cowboy as cold as the clay > Set ye down by me and hear my sad story > Set ye down by me and sing me a song > For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking > I'm a poor cowboy that knowed he done wrong > Send for that doctor to come heal up my body > And send the preacher to come and pray for my soul > For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking > I'm a poor cowboy and hell is my doom > Get sixteen perdy maidens to come and carry my coffin > Sixteen perdy maidens to come and sing me a song > And tell em to bring some o'them sweet smelling roses > So they cant smell me as they tote me along > Beat the drums slowly and play the fife lowly > Play the death march as ye carry me along > Throw bunches of lillies all over my coffin > Thare goes a poor cowboy that knowd he done wrong > > == > Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's Blues.". > Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > > On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > > > > > It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for > the speaker's funeral. > > > > > > -- *Obododimma Oha* http://udude.wordpress.com/ (*Associate Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics*) Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & *Fellow*, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 24 12:12:33 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:12:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu><8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E5522F1.3020404@louisiana.edu> Right--a combination of "Streets of Laredo" and "St. James Infirmary" ("When I die please bury me / In box-back shoes and a stetson hat / Put a twenty-dollar gold piece in my pocket / So the boys'll know I died standin' pat"). Why did all these jazzbos, cowboys, and appalachian pickers fantasize about their burials? (Maybe because burials seemed like the most public kinds of spectacles for the rich and famous--last shot at your fifteen minutes.) Richard Burton (the actor, not the explorer) was buried, I understand, in a flame-red suit. Jerry On 8/24/2011 8:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJXpo6unCw > > > Here's one my favorites... > > > Doc Watson's > > > St. James Hospital > > > Early one morning at the St. James Hospital > Early one morning morn in the month of May > When i looked through the window and a spyed a dear cowboy > A dear cowboy as cold as the clay > Set ye down by me and hear my sad story > Set ye down by me and sing me a song > For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking > I'm a poor cowboy that knowed he done wrong > Send for that doctor to come heal up my body > And send the preacher to come and pray for my soul > For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking > I'm a poor cowboy and hell is my doom > Get sixteen perdy maidens to come and carry my coffin > Sixteen perdy maidens to come and sing me a song > And tell em to bring some o'them sweet smelling roses > So they cant smell me as they tote me along > Beat the drums slowly and play the fife lowly > Play the death march as ye carry me along > Throw bunches of lillies all over my coffin > Thare goes a poor cowboy that knowd he done wrong > > == > Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's > Blues.". Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? > > =================== > David Graham > Grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > ==================== > > On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com > " > wrote: > >> It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan >> for the speaker's funeral. >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 12:27:19 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:27:19 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I should have said that I typed it out, a mess with all those special characters, that is why I pasted and sent it out, you should need it. It is a precious book. The little I like in general the French (so to say), the much I love their literature. Marc Chagall came to mind, the Russian discovered by the French, while I was copying Jacob's poem. 2011/8/24 > I couldn't figure out how to copy from Google Books. > > Jacob's Cornet a des was the first book I bought in Paris, in 1966. It > cost me 14 francs, which was about two dollars, not cheap in those days. One > of my favorite books.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini ** > Sent: Aug 24, 2011 7:31 AM > To: NewPoetry List ** > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Thank you Alex and Mark, I copied it, you should need it: > > Les ?clairs n?ont-ils pas la m?me forme ? l??tranger? Quelqu?un qui se > trouva chez mes parents discutait de la couleur du ciel. Y a-t-il des ?clairs ? > C??tait un nuage rose qui s?avan?ait. Oh ! que tout changea ! Mon Dieu ! > Est-il possible que ta r?alit? soit si vivante ? La maison paternelle est > l? ; les marronniers son coll?s ? la fen?tre, la pr?fecture est coll?e aux > marronniers, le mont Frugy est coll? ? la pr?fecture : les cimes seules, > rien que les cimes. Une voix annon?a : ? Dieu ! ? et il se fit une clart? > dans la nuit. Un corps ?norme cacha la moiti? du paysage. Etait-ce Lui ? > ?tait-ce Job ? Il ?tait pauvre ; il montrait une chair perc?e, ses cuisses > ?taient cach?es par un linge ; que de larmes, ? Seigneur ! Il descendait? > Comment ? Alors descendirent aussi des couples plus grands que nature. Ils > venaient de l?air dans des caisses, dans des ?ufs de P?ques : ils riaient et > le balcon de la maison paternelle fut encombr? de fils noirs comme la > poudre. On avait peur. Les couples s?install?rent dans la maison paternelle > et nous les surveillions par la fen?tre. Car ils ?taient m?chants. Il y > avait des fils noirs jusque sur la nappe de la table ? manger et mes fr?res > d?montraient des cartouches Lebel. Depuis, je suis surveill? par la police. > > > Max Jacob, *Cornet ? d?s*, 1914. > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:33 AM, wrote: > >> Anny: It's quoted complete at >> http://books.google.com/books?id=pCmj82cVD2oC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=%22les+eclairs+n%27ont-ils+pas+la+meme+forme%22&source=bl&ots=O9XdnvAZvh&sig=OcyB2aHhUHa5vQNdkygrk-JiYLs&hl=en&ei=ClhUTq-FJ4TC0AHWuczEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false. >> Begins second line on the page. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anny Ballardini ** >> Sent: Aug 23, 2011 2:35 PM >> To: NewPoetry List ** >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies >> >> Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, not even on the >> French sites. Can you remember the title, that might be easier. >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: >> >>> Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a theophanic vision, and >>> there are others in the collection. >>> >>> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >>> >>> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >>> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Anny Ballardini >>> *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" < >>> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] theophanies >>> >>> Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, who wrote poems about a >>> theophany? >>> Thank you for your help, Anny >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> **** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 24 12:21:10 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:21:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <4E5522F1.3020404@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: And here are the lyrics & some notes to Blind Willie McTell's version of this classic motif, "The Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues." The Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues by Blind Willie McTell recording of 1940 from Complete Library of Congress Recordings (1940) (Document BDCD-6001) & Legendary Library of Congress Session (Elektra 301) Little Jesse was a gambler night and day He used crooked cards and dice Sinful guy good hearted but had no soul Heart was hard and cold like ice Jesse was a wild reckless gambler Won a gang of change Although' a many gambler's heart he led in pain Began to spend a-loose his money Began to be blue sad and all alone His heart had even turned to stone What broke Jesse's heart while he was blue and all alone Sweet Lorena packed up and gone Police walked up and shot my friend Jesse down Boys I got to die today He had a gang of crapshooters and gamblers at his bedside Here are the words he had to say Guess I ought to know Exactly how I wants to go (How you wanna go Jesse?) Eight crapshooters to be my pallbearers Let 'em be veiled down in black I want nine men going to the graveyard Bubba And eight men comin' back I want a gang of gamblers gathered 'round my coffin-side Crooked card printed on my hearse Don't say the crapshooters'll never grieve over me My life been a doggone curse Send poker players to the graveyard Dig my grave with the ace of spades I want twelve polices in my funeral march High sheriff playin' blackjack lead the parade I want the judge and solic'ter who jailed me 14 times Put a pair of dice in my shoes (then what?) Let a deck of cards be my tombstone I got the dyin' crapshooter's blues Sixteen real good crapshooters Sixteen bootleggers to sing a song Sixteen racket men gamblin' Couple tend bar while I'm rollin' along He wanted 22 womens outta the Hampton Hotel 26 off-a South Bell 29 women outta North Atlanta Know little Jesse didn't pass out so swell His head was achin' heart was thumpin' Little Jesse went to hell bouncin' and jumpin' Folks don't be standin' around ole Jesse cryin' He wants everybody to do the Charleston whilst he dyin' One foot up a toenail dragging Throw my buddy Jesse in the hoodoo wagon Come here mama with that can of booze The dyin crapshooter's leavin' the world The dyin' crapshooter's goin' down slow With the dyin' crapshooter's blues __________ Note: Willie McTell recorded "Dying Crapshooter's Blues" on three occasions: first in 1940 in Atlanta for John Lomax's folk song recordings for the Library of Congress; next in Atlanta in 1949 for the then-brand-new Atlantic Records under the pseudonym "Barrelhouse Sammy"; and last in 1956 in Atlanta for record store owner & blues fan Ed Rhodes. None of these recordings were released commercially during McTell's lifetime. The 1949 recording (probably the best of the three) in available on Atlantic's "Atlanta Twelve String" CD and the 1956 version which is prefaced by a long spoken introduction should still be available on CD (I think the disc is called "Last Session"). In his 1956 intro to the song McTell claims that "Dying Crapshooter's Blues" was in fact written at the request of a dying gambler named Jesse who gave McTell a list of all the things he wanted at his funeral. Whether or not the funeral actually was carried out as requested is dubious; McTell claims that Jesse's father put up funds and that they got "everything but the women" but I don't know if the cops were really tending bar and playing blackjack... The song itself is based directly on a much older blues song St. James Infirmary, which I think has been credited to Blind Lemon Jefferson. McTell stated in 1956 that he "stole music every which-way" to complete "Dying Crapshooter's Blues http://www.harptab.com/lyrics/ly2751.shtml On 8/24/11 11:12 AM, "Jerry McGuire" wrote: > Right--a combination of "Streets of Laredo" and "St. James Infirmary" > ("When I die please bury me / In box-back shoes and a stetson hat / Put a > twenty-dollar gold piece in my pocket / So the boys'll know I died standin' > pat"). Why did all these jazzbos, cowboys, and appalachian pickers fantasize > about their burials? (Maybe because burials seemed like the most public kinds > of spectacles for the rich and famous--last shot at your fifteen minutes.) > > Richard Burton (the actor, not the explorer) was buried, I understand, in a > flame-red suit. > > Jerry > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 24 12:31:42 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:31:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <4E5522F1.3020404@louisiana.edu> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu><8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com> <80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu> <8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> <4E5522F1.3020404@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <4E55276E.4000400@louisiana.edu> Sorry, sorry: one more cup of coffee and I realized I'd got the lyrics wrong. In Louis Armstrong's version of St. James Infirmary, it's "Straightlace Shoes, Boxback Coat, and a Stetson hat." Etc. (Should have remembered--I have a poem somewhere with that title.) Cheers, Jerry On 8/24/2011 11:12 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > Right--a combination of "Streets of Laredo" and "St. James Infirmary" > ("When I die please bury me / In box-back shoes and a stetson hat / > Put a twenty-dollar gold piece in my pocket / So the boys'll know I > died standin' pat"). Why did all these jazzbos, cowboys, and > appalachian pickers fantasize about their burials? (Maybe because > burials seemed like the most public kinds of spectacles for the rich > and famous--last shot at your fifteen minutes.) > > Richard Burton (the actor, not the explorer) was buried, I understand, > in a flame-red suit. > > Jerry > > On 8/24/2011 8:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJXpo6unCw >> >> >> Here's one my favorites... >> >> >> Doc Watson's >> >> >> St. James Hospital >> >> >> Early one morning at the St. James Hospital >> Early one morning morn in the month of May >> When i looked through the window and a spyed a dear cowboy >> A dear cowboy as cold as the clay >> Set ye down by me and hear my sad story >> Set ye down by me and sing me a song >> For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking >> I'm a poor cowboy that knowed he done wrong >> Send for that doctor to come heal up my body >> And send the preacher to come and pray for my soul >> For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking >> I'm a poor cowboy and hell is my doom >> Get sixteen perdy maidens to come and carry my coffin >> Sixteen perdy maidens to come and sing me a song >> And tell em to bring some o'them sweet smelling roses >> So they cant smell me as they tote me along >> Beat the drums slowly and play the fife lowly >> Play the death march as ye carry me along >> Throw bunches of lillies all over my coffin >> Thare goes a poor cowboy that knowd he done wrong >> >> == >> Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's >> Blues.". Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? >> >> =================== >> David Graham >> Grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> ==================== >> >> On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com >> " > > wrote: >> >>> It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative >>> plan for the speaker's funeral. >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayette > jlm8047 at louisiana.edu > 337-482-5478 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 24 12:32:51 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:32:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: References: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E5527B3.7030301@louisiana.edu> I love it, by the way, that theophanies and funerals are vying for prime turf on this list. I think everyone should have to pick a side. Jerry On 8/24/2011 11:27 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I should have said that I typed it out, a mess with all those special > characters, that is why I pasted and sent it out, you should need it. > It is a precious book. The little I like in general the French (so to > say), the much I love their literature. Marc Chagall came to mind, the > Russian discovered by the French, while I was copying Jacob's poem. > > 2011/8/24 > > > I couldn't figure out how to copy from Google Books. > > Jacob's Cornet a des was the first book I bought in Paris, in > 1966. It cost me 14 francs, which was about two dollars, not > cheap in those days. One of my favorite books.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > Sent: Aug 24, 2011 7:31 AM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Thank you Alex and Mark, I copied it, you should need it: > > Les ?clairs n'ont-ils pas la m?me forme ? l'?tranger? > Quelqu'un qui se trouva chez mes parents discutait de la > couleur du ciel. Y a-t-il des ?clairs ? C'?tait un nuage rose > qui s'avan?ait. Oh ! que tout changea ! Mon Dieu ! Est-il > possible que ta r?alit? soit si vivante ? La maison paternelle > est l? ; les marronniers son coll?s ? la fen?tre, la > pr?fecture est coll?e aux marronniers, le mont Frugy est coll? > ? la pr?fecture : les cimes seules, rien que les cimes. Une > voix annon?a : ? Dieu ! ? et il se fit une clart? dans la > nuit. Un corps ?norme cacha la moiti? du paysage. Etait-ce > Lui ? ?tait-ce Job ? Il ?tait pauvre ; il montrait une chair > perc?e, ses cuisses ?taient cach?es par un linge ; que de > larmes, ? Seigneur ! Il descendait... Comment ? Alors > descendirent aussi des couples plus grands que nature. Ils > venaient de l'air dans des caisses, dans des oeufs de P?ques : > ils riaient et le balcon de la maison paternelle fut encombr? > de fils noirs comme la poudre. On avait peur. Les couples > s'install?rent dans la maison paternelle et nous les > surveillions par la fen?tre. Car ils ?taient m?chants. Il y > avait des fils noirs jusque sur la nappe de la table ? manger > et mes fr?res d?montraient des cartouches Lebel. Depuis, je > suis surveill? par la police. > > > Max Jacob, /Cornet ? d?s/, 1914. > > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:33 AM, > wrote: > > Anny: It's quoted complete at > http://books.google.com/books?id=pCmj82cVD2oC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=%22les+eclairs+n%27ont-ils+pas+la+meme+forme%22&source=bl&ots=O9XdnvAZvh&sig=OcyB2aHhUHa5vQNdkygrk-JiYLs&hl=en&ei=ClhUTq-FJ4TC0AHWuczEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false > . > Begins second line on the page. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > Sent: Aug 23, 2011 2:35 PM > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Thank you Alexander, I was not able to find it online, > not even on the French sites. Can you remember the > title, that might be easier. > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Alexander Dickow > > > wrote: > > Max Jacob. The first poem in The Dice Cup is a > theophanic vision, and there are others in the > collection. > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Anny Ballardini > > *To:* "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:08 AM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] theophanies > > Besides Dante, William Blake, Jacopone da Todi, > who wrote poems about a theophany? > Thank you for your help, Anny > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to > give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to > a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 12:47:24 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:47:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Borges' 117th birthday Message-ID: <8CE3094A2768722-16FC-14173@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Google's landing page says it's Jorge Luis Borges' 112th Birthday...He'd have appreciated that odd even number being celebrated, I think. Below is a quote from a great set of addresses he did at Harvard years ago (which are collected on a CD, besides in book form). http://www.amazon.com/This-Craft-Verse-4-CD-Set/dp/0674005872 It takes a little while to attune your ears to his voice & accent, but once you get past that, it's really a lovely set of talks thru Borgesian byways of poetic erudition and understanding. A book is a physical object in a world of physical objects. It is a set of dead symbols. And then the right reader comes along, and the words?or rather the poetry behind the words, for the words themselves are merely symbols?spring to life and we have the resurrection of the word. ?Jorge Luis Borges, This Craft of Verse (Borges? Norton Lectures at Harvard, HUP, 2000) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 12:49:29 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:49:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Borges' 112th birthday (corrected caption) In-Reply-To: <8CE3094A2768722-16FC-14173@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE3094A2768722-16FC-14173@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE3094ECBF6F37-16FC-14200@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Google's landing page says it's Jorge Luis Borges' 112th Birthday...He'd have appreciated that odd even number being celebrated, I think. Below is a quote from a great set of addresses he did at Harvard years ago (which are collected on a CD, besides in book form). http://www.amazon.com/This-Craft-Verse-4-CD-Set/dp/0674005872 It takes a little while to attune your ears to his voice & accent, but once you get past that, it's really a lovely set of talks thru Borgesian byways of poetic erudition and understanding. A book is a physical object in a world of physical objects. It is a set of dead symbols. And then the right reader comes along, and the words?or rather the poetry behind the words, for the words themselves are merely symbols?spring to life and we have the resurrection of the word. ?Jorge Luis Borges, This Craft of Verse (Borges? Norton Lectures at Harvard, HUP, 2000) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 13:23:49 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 19:23:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: <4E5527B3.7030301@louisiana.edu> References: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E5527B3.7030301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I also noted that! What a blue mood_ On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > I love it, by the way, that theophanies and funerals are vying for prime > turf on this list. I think everyone should have to pick a side. > > Jerry > > On 8/24/2011 11:27 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I should have said that I typed it out, a mess with all those special > characters, that is why I pasted and sent it out, you should need it. It is > a precious book. The little I like in general the French (so to say), the > much I love their literature. Marc Chagall came to mind, the Russian > discovered by the French, while I was copying Jacob's poem. > > 2011/8/24 > >> I couldn't figure out how to copy from Google Books. >> >> Jacob's Cornet a des was the first book I bought in Paris, in 1966. It >> cost me 14 francs, which was about two dollars, not cheap in those days. One >> of my favorite books.. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anny Ballardini >> Sent: Aug 24, 2011 7:31 AM >> To: NewPoetry List >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies >> >> Thank you Alex and Mark, I copied it, you should need it: >> >> Les ?clairs n?ont-ils pas la m?me forme ? l??tranger? Quelqu?un qui se >> trouva chez mes parents discutait de la couleur du ciel. Y a-t-il des ?clairs ? >> C??tait un nuage rose qui s?avan?ait. Oh ! que tout changea ! Mon Dieu ! >> Est-il possible que ta r?alit? soit si vivante ? La maison paternelle est >> l? ; les marronniers son coll?s ? la fen?tre, la pr?fecture est coll?e aux >> marronniers, le mont Frugy est coll? ? la pr?fecture : les cimes seules, >> rien que les cimes. Une voix annon?a : ? Dieu ! ? et il se fit une clart? >> dans la nuit. Un corps ?norme cacha la moiti? du paysage. Etait-ce Lui ? >> ?tait-ce Job ? Il ?tait pauvre ; il montrait une chair perc?e, ses cuisses >> ?taient cach?es par un linge ; que de larmes, ? Seigneur ! Il descendait? >> Comment ? Alors descendirent aussi des couples plus grands que nature. Ils >> venaient de l?air dans des caisses, dans des ?ufs de P?ques : ils riaient et >> le balcon de la maison paternelle fut encombr? de fils noirs comme la >> poudre. On avait peur. Les couples s?install?rent dans la maison paternelle >> et nous les surveillions par la fen?tre. Car ils ?taient m?chants. Il y >> avait des fils noirs jusque sur la nappe de la table ? manger et mes fr?res >> d?montraient des cartouches Lebel. Depuis, je suis surveill? par la police. >> >> >> Max Jacob, *Cornet ? d?s*, 1914. >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:33 AM, wrote: >> >>> Anny: It's quoted complete at >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=pCmj82cVD2oC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=%22les+eclairs+n%27ont-ils+pas+la+meme+forme%22&source=bl&ots=O9XdnvAZvh&sig=OcyB2aHhUHa5vQNdkygrk-JiYLs&hl=en&ei=ClhUTq-FJ4TC0AHWuczEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false. >>> Begins second line on the page. >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 13:24:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 19:24:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: References: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <4E5527B3.7030301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I also noticed that.. sorry. 2011/8/24 Anny Ballardini > I also noted that! What a blue mood_ > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > >> I love it, by the way, that theophanies and funerals are vying for prime >> turf on this list. I think everyone should have to pick a side. >> >> Jerry >> >> On 8/24/2011 11:27 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> I should have said that I typed it out, a mess with all those special >> characters, that is why I pasted and sent it out, you should need it. It is >> a precious book. The little I like in general the French (so to say), the >> much I love their literature. Marc Chagall came to mind, the Russian >> discovered by the French, while I was copying Jacob's poem. >> >> 2011/8/24 >> >>> I couldn't figure out how to copy from Google Books. >>> >>> Jacob's Cornet a des was the first book I bought in Paris, in 1966. It >>> cost me 14 francs, which was about two dollars, not cheap in those days. One >>> of my favorite books.. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anny Ballardini >>> Sent: Aug 24, 2011 7:31 AM >>> To: NewPoetry List >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] theophanies >>> >>> Thank you Alex and Mark, I copied it, you should need it: >>> >>> Les ?clairs n?ont-ils pas la m?me forme ? l??tranger? Quelqu?un qui se >>> trouva chez mes parents discutait de la couleur du ciel. Y a-t-il des ?clairs ? >>> C??tait un nuage rose qui s?avan?ait. Oh ! que tout changea ! Mon Dieu ! >>> Est-il possible que ta r?alit? soit si vivante ? La maison paternelle est >>> l? ; les marronniers son coll?s ? la fen?tre, la pr?fecture est coll?e aux >>> marronniers, le mont Frugy est coll? ? la pr?fecture : les cimes seules, >>> rien que les cimes. Une voix annon?a : ? Dieu ! ? et il se fit une clart? >>> dans la nuit. Un corps ?norme cacha la moiti? du paysage. Etait-ce Lui ? >>> ?tait-ce Job ? Il ?tait pauvre ; il montrait une chair perc?e, ses cuisses >>> ?taient cach?es par un linge ; que de larmes, ? Seigneur ! Il descendait? >>> Comment ? Alors descendirent aussi des couples plus grands que nature. Ils >>> venaient de l?air dans des caisses, dans des ?ufs de P?ques : ils riaient et >>> le balcon de la maison paternelle fut encombr? de fils noirs comme la >>> poudre. On avait peur. Les couples s?install?rent dans la maison paternelle >>> et nous les surveillions par la fen?tre. Car ils ?taient m?chants. Il y >>> avait des fils noirs jusque sur la nappe de la table ? manger et mes fr?res >>> d?montraient des cartouches Lebel. Depuis, je suis surveill? par la police. >>> >>> >>> Max Jacob, *Cornet ? d?s*, 1914. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:33 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> Anny: It's quoted complete at >>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=pCmj82cVD2oC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=%22les+eclairs+n%27ont-ils+pas+la+meme+forme%22&source=bl&ots=O9XdnvAZvh&sig=OcyB2aHhUHa5vQNdkygrk-JiYLs&hl=en&ei=ClhUTq-FJ4TC0AHWuczEAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false. >>>> Begins second line on the page. >>>> >>> > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com Wed Aug 24 13:45:18 2011 From: robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:45:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] funerals In-Reply-To: <4E55276E.4000400@louisiana.edu> References: <1314118840.60627.YahooMailNeo@web160111.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4E53F837.7050303@louisiana.edu><8CE30701A1E26FD-2818-3DE81@webmail-m126.sysops.aol.com><80A5B1D8-0BDE-46B9-BDE4-F2006083AF9B@ripon.edu><8CE3077AB990EEA-A38-82F9@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com><4E5522F1.3020404@louisiana.edu> <4E55276E.4000400@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <06D0BCF5CF614C16A08B9AA97204952A@OwnerPC> There's a three-way split here. The original "Unfortunate Rake" from Dublin in the 1790s leads pretty much directly to the various Streets of Laredo versions. Cab Calloway and later Louis Armstrong initiate a jazz version, usually much shorter but preserving the St James Infirmary reference, reminding that the first guy in the sequence was dying of syphilis. Blind Willie McTell is possibly the first to cast it as a blues song. But they do all get mixed up at points. The latest I know of (but there may have been versions since) is Emmylou Harris with the song, "Bang the Drum Slowly", in _Red Dirt Girl_ (2000) Robin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry McGuire Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:31 PM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] funerals Sorry, sorry: one more cup of coffee and I realized I'd got the lyrics wrong. In Louis Armstrong's version of St. James Infirmary, it's "Straightlace Shoes, Boxback Coat, and a Stetson hat." Etc. (Should have remembered--I have a poem somewhere with that title.) Cheers, Jerry On 8/24/2011 11:12 AM, Jerry McGuire wrote: Right--a combination of "Streets of Laredo" and "St. James Infirmary" ("When I die please bury me / In box-back shoes and a stetson hat / Put a twenty-dollar gold piece in my pocket / So the boys'll know I died standin' pat"). Why did all these jazzbos, cowboys, and appalachian pickers fantasize about their burials? (Maybe because burials seemed like the most public kinds of spectacles for the rich and famous--last shot at your fifteen minutes.) Richard Burton (the actor, not the explorer) was buried, I understand, in a flame-red suit. Jerry On 8/24/2011 8:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJXpo6unCw Here's one my favorites... Doc Watson's St. James Hospital Early one morning at the St. James Hospital Early one morning morn in the month of May When i looked through the window and a spyed a dear cowboy A dear cowboy as cold as the clay Set ye down by me and hear my sad story Set ye down by me and sing me a song For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking I'm a poor cowboy that knowed he done wrong Send for that doctor to come heal up my body And send the preacher to come and pray for my soul For my poor head is aching and my sad heart is breaking I'm a poor cowboy and hell is my doom Get sixteen perdy maidens to come and carry my coffin Sixteen perdy maidens to come and sing me a song And tell em to bring some o'them sweet smelling roses So they cant smell me as they tote me along Beat the drums slowly and play the fife lowly Play the death march as ye carry me along Throw bunches of lillies all over my coffin Thare goes a poor cowboy that knowd he done wrong == Which reminds me also of Blind Willie McTell's "Dying Crapshooter's Blues.". Wonder if WCW was aware of such songs? =================== David Graham Grahamd at ripon.edu Home page: http://web.me.com/drjazz ==================== On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:34 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: It occurs to me that WC Williams' poem "Tract" is an imaginative plan for the speaker's funeral. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 15:33:18 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:33:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Bly in This World In-Reply-To: References: <890C2244-27E6-42DB-A07E-4F239D0ABDF7@umn.edu> Message-ID: <8CE30ABCF7BA5D8-16FC-16872@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> ________________________________________________________________ Celebrating one of the most significant American poets of the twentieth century ROBERT BLY IN THIS WORLD Edited by James Lenfestey and Thomas R. Smith University of Minnesota Press | 308 pages | 2011 ISBN 978-0-8166-7770-2 | hardcover | $34.95 In 1958, a powerful voice in American poetry emerged from Minnesota. Beginning with publication of The Fifties, Robert Bly?s transformative poetry, translations, and essays grew in popularity across the country. In his eighty-third year, the Elmer L. Andersen Library at the University of Minnesota sponsored a major conference, Robert Bly in This World. This is the record of that historic event. PRAISE FOR ROBERT BLY IN THIS WORLD: "I had never even heard Rumi?s name before attending Robert Bly?s Great Mother Conference in 1976. . . . As he handed me my copy, he said, ?These poems need to be released from their cages.?"? Coleman Barks "Robert Bly?s antiwar poetry . . . engages in mental combat so as to depress the corporeal. I deeply believe that there are men and women my age who are alive today because we had people like Robert doing that work in the sixties."?Lewis Hyde "We do what we must to keep the earth alive and our own species awake to its own full nature, for our own rescue and joy, and for the rescue and joy of those who will follow. This is the vow Robert Bly has always embodied, living as he has in sentinel alertness." ?Jane Hirshfield ABOUT THE EDITORS: Thomas R. Smith is the author of five books of poems, most recently The Foot of the Rainbow (2010). He edited the festschrift Walking Swiftly: Writing and Images on the Occasion of Robert Bly?s 65th Birthday (1992). He teaches at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. James P. Lenfestey, a former editorial writer for the Minneapolis?St. Paul Star Tribune, is the author of a collection of personal essays and four collections of poems. He convened the conference Robert Bly in This World. For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/S/smith_robert.html Sign up to receive news on the latest releases from University of Minnesota Press: http://www.upress.umn.edu/mediaalert.html Please email me if you have any questions. -- Heather Skinner, Publicist University of Minnesota Press 111 3rd Ave S, Ste. 290 Minneapolis, MN 55401-2520 skinn077 at umn.edu v * 612-627-1932 f * 612-627-1980 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 15:58:50 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:58:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Borges' 117th birthday In-Reply-To: <8CE3094A2768722-16FC-14173@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE3094A2768722-16FC-14173@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Already recycled the quote, thank you. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM, wrote: > Google's landing page says it's Jorge Luis Borges' 112th Birthday...He'd > have appreciated that odd even number being celebrated, I think. > > Below is a quote from a great set of addresses he did at Harvard years > ago (which are collected on a CD, besides in book form). > http://www.amazon.com/This-Craft-Verse-4-CD-Set/dp/0674005872 > It takes a little while to attune your ears to his voice & accent, but once > you get past that, it's really a lovely set of talks thru Borgesian byways > of poetic erudition and understanding. > > A book is a physical object in a world of physical objects. It is a set of > dead symbols. And then the right reader comes along, and the words?or rather > the poetry behind the words, for the words themselves are merely > symbols?spring to life and we have the resurrection of the word. > > ?Jorge Luis Borges, *This Craft of Verse* (Borges? Norton Lectures at > Harvard, HUP, 2000) > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Aug 24 16:02:17 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:02:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Bly in This World Message-ID: <25347367.1314216138337.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 18:32:22 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:32:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] theophanies In-Reply-To: References: <17133048.1314198063284.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net><4E5527B3.7030301@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8CE30C4D3918ECA-1DAC-2FB61@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> I was thinking there must be some theophanies in Rilke's Book of Hours. But I'll have to look that book again. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 24 18:39:01 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:39:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Bly in This World In-Reply-To: <25347367.1314216138337.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25347367.1314216138337.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CE30C5C11CE5EA-1DAC-2FC24@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> Try this Notepad pasted Plain Text version.... _________________________________________________________________ Celebrating one of the most significant American poets of the twentieth century ROBERT BLY IN THIS WORLD Edited by James Lenfestey and Thomas R. Smith University of Minnesota Press | 308 pages | 2011 ISBN 978-0-8166-7770-2 | hardcover | $34.95 In 1958, a powerful voice in American poetry emerged from Minnesota. Beginning with publication of The Fifties, Robert Bly?s transformative poetry, translations, and essays grew in popularity across the country. In his eighty-third year, the Elmer L. Andersen Library at the University of Minnesota sponsored a major conference, Robert Bly in This World. This is the record of that historic event. PRAISE FOR ROBERT BLY IN THIS WORLD: "I had never even heard Rumi?s name before attending Robert Bly?s Great Mother Conference in 1976. . . . As he handed me my copy, he said, ?These poems need to be released from their cages.?"? Coleman Barks "Robert Bly?s antiwar poetry . . . engages in mental combat so as to depress the corporeal. I deeply believe that there are men and women my age who are alive today because we had people like Robert doing that work in the sixties."?Lewis Hyde "We do what we must to keep the earth alive and our own species awake to its own full nature, for our own rescue and joy, and for the rescue and joy of those who will follow. This is the vow Robert Bly has always embodied, living as he has in sentinel alertness." ?Jane Hirshfield ABOUT THE EDITORS: Thomas R. Smith is the author of five books of poems, most recently The Foot of the Rainbow (2010). He edited the festschrift Walking Swiftly: Writing and Images on the Occasion of Robert Bly?s 65th Birthday (1992). He teaches at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. James P. Lenfestey, a former editorial writer for the Minneapolis?St. Paul Star Tribune, is the author of a collection of personal essays and four collections of poems. He convened the conference Robert Bly in This World. For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/S/smith_robert.html Sign up to receive news on the latest releases from University of Minnesota Press: http://www.upress.umn.edu/mediaalert.html Please email me if you have any questions. -- Heather Skinner, Publicist University of Minnesota Press 111 3rd Ave S, Ste. 290 Minneapolis, MN 55401-2520 skinn077 at umn.edu 612-627-1932 -----Original Message----- From: junction at earthlink.net To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 4:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Robert Bly in This World Blank message. Is that a comment? -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Aug 24, 2011 3:33 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Robert Bly in This World _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 24 21:25:40 2011 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:25:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Leo Connellan Message-ID: <8F50C382-3C0A-457E-BB52-55F256959260@ripon.edu> There was no poet quite like him. http://www.courant.com/features/books/hc-writestuff-books-0825-20110825,0,1860270.story ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 08:45:47 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:45:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] money makes the world go round... Message-ID: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2011/08/james-patterson-84-million.html -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 08:47:37 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:47:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ron Silliman Message-ID: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2011/08/sapphire-on-racism-reception-talking.html and I also have a little mention, bursting ... with pride, :-) -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 25 11:36:55 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:36:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Leo Connellan In-Reply-To: <8F50C382-3C0A-457E-BB52-55F256959260@ripon.edu> References: <8F50C382-3C0A-457E-BB52-55F256959260@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CE3153F3F5693B-13D0-22990@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> I met Connellan and saw him read on several occassions after I moved to Connecticut. He wasn't a very good reader. And his poetry seemed a little flaccid to me. Not a lot verve in the lines; lots of poems that were proselike in their unfolding. His politics and potrayal of working class life I admired on the whole. Tho sometimes he came off as old fashioned in his views as though he were writing about men and women in the 1950/60s and not at the dawning of 21stC. The late lamented Sandy Taylor and Curbstone Press supported of Leo's work. I guess that alone would be a good recommendation for it. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu &Views Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 9:25 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Leo Connellan There was no poet quite like him. http://www.courant.com/features/books/hc-writestuff-books-0825-20110825,0,1860270.story ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 25 13:34:53 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:34:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS Message-ID: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 25 13:53:37 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:53:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE31670D295408-1810-288C7@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> I meant to send that to the wallace stevens listserv... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 25 14:58:16 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:58:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Leo Connellan In-Reply-To: <8CE3153F3F5693B-13D0-22990@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> References: <8F50C382-3C0A-457E-BB52-55F256959260@ripon.edu> <8CE3153F3F5693B-13D0-22990@Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E569B48.1010401@nut-n-but.net> "Tho sometimes he came off as old fashioned in his views as though he were writing about men and women in the1950/60s and not at the dawning of 21stC."--Finnegan I found this statement of yours interesting, James. It rather sharply shows the divide between your and and my critical stances toward poetry (and I'm going to do my best to suggest they are two different but equal stances however much it is natural for me to consider mine /better/). Mainly, as I've several times mused here, I'm not interested very much in people-centered poetry, so would never fault a poem for being about people of a wrong time period (although I tend elitistly to fault poems--and novels and plays--for being about people I consider uninteresting). Where people are important to poems, though, I hardly ever think of them, in good poems, as people of such-and-such a time. Frost's poems never seem to me old-fashioned for being about people not of the 21st-Century. Milton's characters aren't old-fashioned. In fact, I can't think off-hand of a poem I consider old-fashioned in any way--except in language (e.g., Elizabethan). I don't consider Wilshberian poems old-fashioned, just not doing what other poems are doing. I keep thinking of Keats's poems--none I can remember seems old-fashioned in any way. I think that's because their setting is anytime, or a past distant for both him and us. Just exploring a line of thought. I'm not at all sure I'm right about what I think my own stance is. I do know that my favorite poems are rarely about human relationships. Many are about a persona's view of life, which is quite different, I think. Or have people in them, but they are just elements in a contraption important for what it does and how it does it, not so much for what it's about. . . . --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 25 22:20:48 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 22:20:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports Message-ID: <8CE31ADE77029A8-1B98-7781@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 23:55:33 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 05:55:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <8CE31ADE77029A8-1B98-7781@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE31ADE77029A8-1B98-7781@webmail-m048.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: > Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports > > Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas > boiling! > Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! > Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! > Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass > hysteria! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 11:33:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314372812.70589.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 15:53:00 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports Message-ID: <1314388380.51235.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 15:57:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <1314388380.51235.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314388663.27002.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Apocalypse II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:53 PM Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 16:11:15 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <1314388663.27002.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> III The AsTeroid hit. You s??????? hould h ???????????????????? ave??????? seen it. Not??????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe????????????? like a car wreck, louder. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I l i ve ???????????????????? (This poem) ? ?ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. More than m?o?s?t poems -- ... awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:57 PM Apocalypse II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:53 PM Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 16:22:10 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314390130.575.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ?... maybe 3 small asteroids & the complete -- Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --?? III The AsTeroid hit. You s??????? hould h ???????????????????? ave??????? seen it. Not??????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe????????????? like a car wreck, louder. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I l i ve ???????????????????? (This poem) ? ?ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. More than m?o?s?t poems -- ... awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 4:11 PM III The AsTeroid hit. You s??????? hould h ???????????????????? ave??????? seen it. Not??????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe????????????? like a car wreck, louder. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I l i ve ???????????????????? (This poem) ? ?ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. More than m?o?s?t poems -- ... awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:57 PM Apocalypse II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:53 PM Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 16:57:42 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:57:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: These are funny. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote: > > http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 17:02:06 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314392526.65956.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the Artuad one below is great. Shakespeare January 9, 1964 Tennessee Williams April 28, 1966 August Strindberg July 7, 1966 Antonin Artaud February 29, 1968 Bertolt Brecht June 3, 1971 William Carlos Williams November 13, 1975 Tennessee Williams February 5, 1976 Antonin Artaud November 11, 1976 --- On Fri, 8/26/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 4:57 PM These are funny. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote: http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Fri Aug 26 17:03:20 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: <1314392526.65956.YahooMailClassic@web161908.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314392601.40190.YahooMailClassic@web161902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> the 1976, November 11th drawing is the best. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 5:02 PM the Artuad one below is great. Shakespeare January 9, 1964 Tennessee Williams April 28, 1966 August Strindberg July 7, 1966 Antonin Artaud February 29, 1968 Bertolt Brecht June 3, 1971 William Carlos Williams November 13, 1975 Tennessee Williams February 5, 1976 Antonin Artaud November 11, 1976 --- On Fri, 8/26/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 4:57 PM These are funny. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote: http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 ? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 18:27:29 2011 From: obodooha at gmail.com (obodooha at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:27:29 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314388663.27002.YahooMailClassic@web161917.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <455048986-1314397655-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2014265978-@b18.c5.bise7.blackberry> The poem re/lives the xp-rience! Thanks for sharing. Obododimma. Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless handheld from Glo Mobile. -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.eduDate: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:11:15 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From carol.dorf at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 12:09:52 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 09:09:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: <1314390130.575.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1314390130.575.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: D is aster a wa its On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM, stephen russell < poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com> wrote: > ... maybe 3 small asteroids & the complete -- > > Apocalypse > > The asteroid hit. > > You should have seen it. > > Not that I saw it -- > > > ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, > > But louder. > > Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, > > But larger -- > > > > ? I lived through it somehow. > > This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared > > > > The same experience. > > This poem is addressed to a reader. > > More than most poems, > > This poem awaits a single response. > > > II > > > The asteroid hit. > > You should h > > ave seen it. > > Not that I saw it -- > > > ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, > > But louder. > > Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, > > But larger -- > > > > ? I lived through it somehow. > > This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared > > > > The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. > > This poem is addre ss ed to a reader. > > > More than m?o?s?t poems, > > This poem awaits -- > > > III > > > The AsTeroid hit. > > > You s hould h > > ave seen it. > > Not saw it -- > > > ... Maybe like a car wreck, > > louder. like a mushroom cloud, > > > But larger -- > > > > ? I l i ve > > > (This poem) > > > > ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. > > > > More than m?o?s?t poems -- > > > ... awaits -- > > > --- On *Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell *wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 4:11 PM > > > III > > > The AsTeroid hit. > > > You s hould h > > ave seen it. > > Not saw it -- > > > ... Maybe like a car wreck, > > louder. like a mushroom cloud, > > > But larger -- > > > > ? I l i ve > > > (This poem) > > > > ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. > > > > More than m?o?s?t poems -- > > > ... awaits -- > > > --- On *Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell *wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:57 PM > > > Apocalypse > > > II > > > The asteroid hit. > > You should h > > ave seen it. > > Not that I saw it -- > > > ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, > > But louder. > > Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, > > But larger -- > > > > ? I lived through it somehow. > > This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared > > > > The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. > > This poem is addre ss ed to a reader. > > > More than m?o?s?t poems, > > This poem awaits -- > > > --- On *Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell *wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:53 PM > > > Apocalypse > > The asteroid hit. > > You should have seen it. > > Not that I saw it -- > > > ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, > > But louder. > > Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, > > But larger -- > > > > ? I lived through it somehow. > > This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared > > > > The same experience. > > This poem is addressed to a reader. > > More than most poems, > > This poem awaits a single response. > > > --- On *Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell *wrote: > > > From: stephen russell > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM > > We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. > > --- On *Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini * wrote: > > > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports > To: "NewPoetry List" > Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM > > jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: > > Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports > > Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas > boiling! > Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! > Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! > Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass > hysteria! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm8047 at louisiana.edu Sat Aug 27 12:12:22 2011 From: jlm8047 at louisiana.edu (Jerry McGuire) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 11:12:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: References: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E591766.4050609@louisiana.edu> They're not just funny. I just blew two hours going through the damned things. The trick is to ask yourself: If I were going to spend $150 one time to buy just one of these pics, which would it be? Derrida upside-down? Freud's head on Lou Andreas-Salome's platter? Gabriel Garcia Marquez with a finger aside his nose? Youce Carol Oates in boxing-gloves with blood dripping from her lip? Anyone out there looking to buy my xmas present, here's a treasure trove. Jerry On 8/26/2011 3:57 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > These are funny. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM, > wrote: > > http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Prof. Jerry McGuire Dept. of English University of Louisiana at Lafayette jlm8047 at louisiana.edu 337-482-5478 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 12:31:24 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 09:31:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: References: <1314389475.45523.YahooMailClassic@web161912.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1314390130.575.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lovely, have you read WEATHER REPORTS by Kenneth Goldsmith? I did a "Surf Report" poem to him in PAPER CRAFT -- free at http://www.moriapoetry.com/dalypapercraft1.pdf All best, Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 17:40:18 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 23:40:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Levine draws WS In-Reply-To: <4E591766.4050609@louisiana.edu> References: <8CE31646EF175D9-1810-28558@Webmail-d123.sysops.aol.com> <4E591766.4050609@louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I also blew enough time there, and the rest playing cards, these demented card games you have with Microsoft. When will I ever grow up? On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Jerry McGuire wrote: > They're not just funny. I just blew two hours going through the damned > things. The trick is to ask yourself: If I were going to spend $150 one time > to buy just one of these pics, which would it be? Derrida upside-down? > Freud's head on Lou Andreas-Salome's platter? Gabriel Garcia Marquez with a > finger aside his nose? Youce Carol Oates in boxing-gloves with blood > dripping from her lip? Anyone out there looking to buy my xmas present, > here's a treasure trove. > > Jerry > > On 8/26/2011 3:57 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > These are funny. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote: > >> >> http://www.nybooks.com/galleries/david-levine-illustrator/writers-american/?page=6 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- > Prof. Jerry McGuire > Dept. of English > University of Louisiana at Lafayettejlm8047 at louisiana.edu337-482-5478 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 10:41:45 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:41:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS -- HINCHAS DE POESIA In-Reply-To: <1314628524.69298.YahooMailNeo@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1314628524.69298.YahooMailNeo@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yago S. Cura :: Publisher & Curator J. David Gonzalez :: Fiction Editor Jim Heavily :: Poetry Editor www.hinchasdepoesia.com Friends: *Hinchas de Poesia*, an on-line literary journal based in Los Angeles, is now accepting submissions for its fifth issue. In addition to original and previously unpublished poetry & fiction, we are also interested in translations & art work. For complete details, please visit our website. Deadline for submissions is November 1, 2011. Past contributors include Toma? ?alamun, Campbell McGrath, Abel Folgar, Yaddyra Peralta, Luivette Resto, Jim Cervantes, Chip Livingston, Marco Bravo, James Iredell, David Spicer, Nick Vagnoni, Maureen Alsop, and Stephen Page. *Hinchas* is also glad to accept postal submissions which can be sent to the following address: Jim Heavily c/o *Hinchas de Poesia* 6501 E, Whitier St. Wake Forest NC 27587. Feel free to share this e-mail with your associates or students. In addition to innovative & experimental writing, *Hinchas* is also interested in new or seldom heard voices. We look forward to your best work. ?Salud! Yago S. Cura J. David Gonzalez Jim Heavily -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 29 11:29:49 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:29:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Women and Elegy, review in The Nation Message-ID: <8CE34779FB9397D-19CC-5DA97@webmail-m164.sysops.aol.com> Women and Elegy : a review by Susan Stewart of books by Susan Howe, Gjertrud Schnackenberg, Anne Carson & CD Wright http://www.thenation.com/article/162953/discandied-women-and-elegy?page=0,0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 29 12:07:32 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homer: the ultimate word fighter Message-ID: <8CE347CE4964DCC-1E58-311CA@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/222435/homer-joins-word-fighters-cast-of-literary-ass-kickers/ Unlike many of the other authors featured in the game, Homer's appearance and history is somewhat shrouded in mystery, allowing the team at Feel Every Yummy to have a bit of fun with him. He's been cast as a muscular old man clad in a toga and blindfolded -- itself a homage to the rumors that he may have been blind. The game itself was featured at PAX over the weekend -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 29 12:44:13 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:44:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom Message-ID: <8CE348204AC3DE1-1E58-317A7@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> http://www.themillions.com/2011/08/the-canon-guard-harold-blooms-the-anatomy-of-criticism.html The Canon Guard: Harold Bloom?s The Anatomy of Criticism By Matt Hanson posted Harold Bloom is getting old. The venerable and untiring critic has reached the age of 81, the age Dante thought would allow one to reach the perfection of mind and spirit. Bloom would be the first (and he repeats himself in this, as in all things) to admit that he falls pretty solidly short of this luminosity. The nickname he chose for himself is ?Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom? ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Aug 29 13:40:37 2011 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314639637.18144.YahooMailClassic@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I like the poet Brandon Lorber's Acculorber reports of the weather that have been posted for a few years now. Sometime the end of last year they turned brilliant, check any of the entries in July. (the recent Irene ones were too rushed). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htj6Hx_EZLY or type accu lorber into google. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25857379734&ref=ts From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 29 14:37:32 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314643052.88989.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Thanks for posting Paper Craft. Nail polish on water color paper ... I lose patience with artist who insist on large studio space ... they fear going small. --- On Sat, 8/27/11, Catherine Daly wrote: From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, August 27, 2011, 12:31 PM Lovely, have you read WEATHER REPORTS by Kenneth Goldsmith? ?I did a "Surf Report" poem to him in PAPER CRAFT -- free at?http://www.moriapoetry.com/dalypapercraft1.pdf All best, Catherine -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 29 14:40:12 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314643212.19702.YahooMailClassic@web161919.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> wish i had said that ... i get a bit?manic ... start typing ... fingers dance & don't care where they're going ... it can get embarressing. --- On Sat, 8/27/11, carol dorf wrote: From: carol dorf Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Saturday, August 27, 2011, 12:09 PM D is aster a wa its On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM, stephen russell wrote: ?... maybe 3 small asteroids & the complete -- Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --?? III The AsTeroid hit. You s??????? hould h ???????????????????? ave??????? seen it. Not??????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe????????????? like a car wreck, louder. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I l i ve ???????????????????? (This poem) ? ?ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. More than m?o?s?t poems -- ... awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 4:11 PM III The AsTeroid hit. You s??????? hould h ???????????????????? ave??????? seen it. Not??????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe????????????? like a car wreck, louder. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I l i ve ???????????????????? (This poem) ? ?ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. More than m?o?s?t poems -- ... awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:57 PM Apocalypse II The asteroid hit. You should h ???????????????????? ave seen it. Not that I?????????????????????? saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded?????????????????? like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked??????????? like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same ex ... pe ... rien ... ce. This poem is addre????? ss???? ed to????????? a reader. More than m?o?s?t poems, This poem awaits --? --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 3:53 PM Apocalypse The asteroid hit. You should have seen it. Not that I saw it -- ... Maybe it sounded like a car wreck, But louder. Maybe it looked like a mushroom cloud, But larger -- ? ? I lived through it somehow. This poem is addressed to anyone out there who shared ? The same experience. This poem is addressed to a reader. More than most poems, This poem awaits a single response. --- On Fri, 8/26/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 11:33 AM We had an earthquake in d.c. Sad, we need an asteroid. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Weather Reports To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Thursday, August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM jaysoos, what is 'ah' happening there? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 4:20 AM, wrote: Transscript of 4 Local Weather Reports ? Ray Stanz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave! Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Mon Aug 29 15:46:35 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Women and Elegy, review in The Nation In-Reply-To: <8CE34779FB9397D-19CC-5DA97@webmail-m164.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1314647195.30387.YahooMailClassic@web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Susan Stewart knows her stuff. ?I managed to get a copy of her Poetry and The Fate of The Senses from?a local?library?... a beautiful and ambitious work?from?a 1st?rate scholar. --- On Mon, 8/29/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Women and Elegy, review in The Nation To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:29 AM Women and Elegy : a review by Susan Stewart of books by Susan Howe, Gjertrud Schnackenberg, Anne Carson & CD Wright http://www.thenation.com/article/162953/discandied-women-and-elegy?page=0,0 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 29 16:08:17 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:08:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Duly noted: paper is cool Message-ID: <8CE349E86DE274D-1E58-33C8D@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903461304576527061695101804.html Paper has a particular appeal for those who spend hours at a time in front of a screen. Much of the recent small-stationery resurgence has taken place in letterpress printing, a method that uses raised type to make a deep impression in thick paper, creating a substantial, textured object. "You can pet it," says Ms. Weil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 16:17:21 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:17:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom In-Reply-To: <8CE348204AC3DE1-1E58-317A7@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE348204AC3DE1-1E58-317A7@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: bombastically brooding Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom but better than grumpy Bobbgrumman ? Ballading Ballardini On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:44 PM, wrote: > > http://www.themillions.com/2011/08/the-canon-guard-harold-blooms-the-anatomy-of-criticism.html > The Canon Guard: Harold Bloom?s The Anatomy of Criticism > By Matt Hanson posted > > Harold Bloom is getting old. The venerable and untiring critic has reached > the age of 81, the age Dante thought would allow one to reach the perfection > of mind and spirit. Bloom would be the first (and he repeats himself in > this, as in all things) to admit that he falls pretty solidly short of this > luminosity. The nickname he chose for himself is ?Brontosaurus Bardolator > Bloom? ... > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 18:29:37 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:29:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Open Call: Anthology of Trans & Genderqueer Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm forwarding this because I know Hilda Ras was / is a listmember, and because if kari edwards was!... On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Trace Peterson wrote: > OPEN CALL FOR AN ANTHOLOGY OF TRANS & GENDERQUEER POETRY > > Dear Author, > > We want your words. > > What is the project: We are creating an anthology. An anthology of > the best poems out there by trans and genderqueer writers and we would > love to include your work in the book. Our assumption is that the > writing of trans and genderqueer folks has something more than > coincidence in common with the experimental, the radical, and the > innovative in poetry and poetics (as we idiosyncratically define these > categories), and with your help we?d like to manifest that something > (or somethings) in a genderqueer multipoetics, a critical mass of > trans fabulousness. > > This anthology is edited by TC Tolbert and Tim Peterson (Trace)?both > trans-identified poets. It will be published by EOAGH Books in early > 2012, and you can bet it will be widely distributed! > > Deadline for Submissions: Nov 30, 2011 > What to Submit: 7-10 pages of poetry, and a prose ?poetics? statement > (see below) > Where to Submit: email us at transanthology at gmail.com > > Why is this anthology important: While trans and genderqueer poets > have existed for hundreds, if not thousands, of years, there has never > been a collection of poetry exclusively by trans and genderqueer > writers that also highlights a diverse range of poetics and other > marginalized identities. Each particular understanding of self and > gender creates an essentially complex and rich multipoetics that > undermines any sort of universal trans aesthetic. Inherently multi- > vocal and anti-hegemonic, a singular trans experience simply does not > exist and, frankly, we don?t want it to. For this reason, an > anthology is the most conducive venue for undoing any attempted > whitewashing and/or homogenizing of an imagined trans voice. As we > said, we want your words. The words, syntax, perspective, lyric, > narrative, image (or the disruption of any of these) that could > actually only come from you. > > What kind of writing are we looking for: This anthology seeks writing > that makes us wet our panties a little bit and wonder what the f* have > we been doing with our lives all this time. While this project exists > in a historical context of several important anthologies that gather > marginalized and under-represented writers (This Bridge Called My > Back, No More Masks, The Open Boat, The World in Us, etc), this will > be the first anthology to foreground the poetic writings of trans and > genderqueer authors. The book will feature 7-10 pages of work from > approximately 35 poets and we hope you will be one of them! > > A meta-layer of fabulous: One thing that makes this anthology unique > is that it will include a statement on poetics by each participant, > along with your poems. This is a chance for you to tell us something > about your writing process, writing practice, theory of life, or > whatever you like. It might include the relationship of the body and > text, or the practice of reading and misreading text and the body, or > locations, connections, and divisions of the self amongst text and the > self amongst other bodies or...you get the point. > > About the editors: > > TC Tolbert is a genderqueer, feminist poet and teacher committed to > social justice. S/he is the Assistant Director of Casa Libre en la > Solana and an Adjunct Instructor at The University of Arizona and Pima > Community College. S/he is the creator of Made for Flight, a youth > empowerment project that utilizes creative writing and kite building > to commemorate murdered transgender people and to dismantle homophobia > and transphobia. TC?s chapbook, territories of folding, was recently > published by Kore Press. His poems can be found in Volt, The Pinch, > Drunken Boat, Shampoo, A Trunk of Delirium, jubilat, and EOAGH. His > work won the Arizona Statewide Poetry Competition in 2010 and was a > Sawtooth finalist in 2009 and 2010. His first full length collection, > Gephyromania, is forthcoming from Ahsahta Press. www.tctolbert.com > > Tim Peterson (Trace) is a trans-identified poet, critic, and editor. > The author of Since I Moved In (Chax Press), and Violet Speech (2nd > Avenue Poetry), Peterson also edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts > (which published a special issue Queering Language dedicated to trans > poet and mentor kari edwards in 2007). Peterson?s poetry and criticism > have been published in Colorado Review, EBR, Five Fingers Review, > Harvard Review, Leonardo Electronic Almanac, The Poetry Project > Newsletter, Transgender Tapestry, and in the recent book NO GENDER: > Reflections on the Life and Work of kari edwards (Belladonna/Limus > Press). A Ph.D. student at CUNY Graduate Center, Peterson curates the > TENDENCIES: Poetics & Practice talks series dedicated to queer writing > and the manifesto. More information at http://tendenciespoetics.com > > We are incredibly excited about this project and look forward to > working with you! > > Thank you! > > TC and Trace > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Mon Aug 29 21:31:41 2011 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:31:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] Duly noted: paper is cool Message-ID: <29345557.1314667901568.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carol.dorf at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 09:26:35 2011 From: carol.dorf at gmail.com (carol dorf) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:26:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Math poems Message-ID: I thought some of the "mathier" poets would like this link. JoAnne Growney is the one who is organizing the mathematics and poetry reading at the MAA conference. Here is a link to recent blog-posting of a poem by Joan Mazza -- **** http://poetrywithmathematics.blogspot.com/2011/08/this-plane-of-earthly-love.html-- **** with (at the end) links to poems by Carol Dorf and Tiel Aisha Ansari.**** Enjoy.**** ** ** ** * * * * * *JoAnne Growney Silver Spring, MD; more information at** ** http://joannegrowney.com* * .* ** ** ** ** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 11:21:02 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:21:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Message-ID: <8CE353F903ED1AD-1164-4545@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 14:29:50 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <8CE353F903ED1AD-1164-4545@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1314728990.49124.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This was included: ? 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. ? Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now ?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 14:26:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314728811.46939.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> What a guy, that Bloom. I hate Charley Rhodes (though I sometimes watch it for the guest). Bloom some years back was fun, and, as anyone would expect, incredibly pompous. He simply had to call the Harry Potter books trash because they didn't measure up to Charolette's Web. The following night, the Anglo/Japanese author (can't remember name/but he wrote, I think, The remains of the Day), remarked that he found the Potter books "perfectly charming." I don't read children's books, but if I were on the dole (as was the case with the Potter author), and knew the kind of $$$ I could make in children's lit, I'd write trash. Lots of it. Come to think of it, has anyone written a young adult slasher novel? Why not? American kids are jaded little creeps.?They deserve?a slasher novel. --- On Mon, 8/29/11, Anny Ballardini wrote: From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 4:17 PM bombastically brooding Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom but better than grumpy Bobbgrumman ? Ballading Ballardini On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:44 PM, wrote: http://www.themillions.com/2011/08/the-canon-guard-harold-blooms-the-anatomy-of-criticism.html The Canon Guard: Harold Bloom?s The Anatomy of Criticism By Matt Hanson posted ? Harold Bloom is getting old. The venerable and untiring critic has reached the age of 81, the age Dante thought would allow one to reach the perfection of mind and spirit. Bloom would be the first (and he repeats himself in this, as in all things) to admit that he falls pretty solidly short of this luminosity. The nickname he chose for himself is ?Brontosaurus Bardolator Bloom? ... _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 20:01:09 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <1314728990.49124.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ...? He got lucky with Seidel.? Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: ? 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. ? Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now ?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Tue Aug 30 20:06:25 2011 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent Borges Accardi) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE3588F4EF2C75-2354-C6CD@webmail-d002.sysops.aol.com> Hi I read with John Murillo at Stories Bookstore and thought his work was wonderful-- Millicent -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 5:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ... He got lucky with Seidel. Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 20:11:44 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314749504.19705.YahooMailClassic@web161906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Or is this the ... ??? ... asshole critic? ... I don't follow critics ('cept Bob & Bloom) -- Nor would I want to (to paraphrase Abramson) replicate/emulate/ or approximate a critic. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 8:01 PM Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ...? He got lucky with Seidel.? Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: ? 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. ? Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now ?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 20:22:09 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:22:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CE358B283D74B6-21D4-12DF2@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and odd choice. The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ... He got lucky with Seidel. Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 20:24:36 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:24:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <8CE358B283D74B6-21D4-12DF2@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE358B7F9B4782-21D4-12E87@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Correction: I meant to praise Godfrey by saying he was one of the 'lesser-known NY poets'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and odd choice. The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ... He got lucky with Seidel. Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 20:32:02 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now In-Reply-To: <8CE358B283D74B6-21D4-12DF2@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1314750722.19653.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all.? Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice.? Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 8:22 PM Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of the?lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and odd choice. The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 -----Original Message----- From: stephen russell To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:01 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ...? He got lucky with Seidel.? Not everyone is dumb all the time. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 2:29 PM This was included: ? 10. Poems 1959-2009 (2009), Frederick Seidel. Seidel is one of the very few American poets of whom it could accurately be said that his work cannot be replicated, emulated, or approximated. It is a unique phenomenon of the sort witnessed perhaps only once a century. Seidel's poetry is consistently stark, terrifying, and grotesque, and yet one senses in it the frozen passions of a fully realized and fully capable poetic persona. Reading Seidel is not exactly like rubbernecking; it's like being strapped to a chair with your eyelids forcibly peeled back and then made to watch the slow, gentle slaughter of an infant. Anyone who says contemporary poetry has nothing to match its predecessors from other generations has either not read Seidel or simply did not understand what he was reading when he did. ? Seidel, in my book, can do no wrong. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 11:21 AM Seth Abramson Posted: 8/25/11 02:42 PM ET Ten Recent Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now ?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/american-poerty-books_b_930986.html -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 20:39:56 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:39:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] War Music Message-ID: <8CE358DA44C13C0-21D4-133A3@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> A languagehat post remembering first encounter with Logue's War Music... http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000545.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Aug 30 20:55:08 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Message-ID: <33044.287fbd92.3b8ee06c@cs.com> In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:25:02 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > Correction: I meant to praise Godfrey by saying he was one of the > 'lesser-known NY poets'. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read > Right Now > > Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of > the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry > video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and > odd choice. > > The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. > Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > > > > Actually, my most recent book, No Leaf Unturned, should be added to this list. It was actually written by Bob Grumman and has a blurb by Philip Wilbur Howard: Never, I think (if one is allowed to think in the context of contemporary poetry, has such elegance, wit, and fidelity to the working-class ethic that has defined and still defines the lives of Americans of our generation, the last we shall know and those few yet to come, if we are allowed (as well we may) the world-view presented by various post-Apocalyptic films and other textes. Gwynrumman's work is supple, transcendent, over-ripe (perhaps, but in a certain degree), and displays the perfect admixture of carefully considered form, stirred toxic waste materials, and general evasion of the relevant that should characterize our strange, reductive times. As someone else has said, "I cannot praise him highly. Enough." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 21:10:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:10:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] short kate greenstreet vid Message-ID: <8CE3591DE5AD8AC-21D4-13D08@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lSpViHyPi4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 30 21:27:50 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:27:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Barrier Island Message-ID: <8CE359454E4140A-22AC-DD41@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> A young poet who heard me read a poem asked for it... http://www.masonsroad.com/issue-3/features-issue-3/author-bios-issue-3/james-finnegan-barrier-island/ The speaker in the poem is more Walter Anderson than me. If you don't know Walter Anderson, here's where to start... http://walterandersonmuseum.org/exhibitions/current-exhibitions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Aug 30 21:36:53 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Barrier Island Message-ID: <88548.33fae8c4.3b8eea35@cs.com> In a message dated 8/30/2011 8:28:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > A young poet who heard me read a poem asked for it... > > http://www.masonsroad.com/issue-3/features-issue-3/author-bios-issue-3/james-finnegan-barrier-island/ > > The speaker in the poem is more Walter Anderson than me. If you don't > know Walter Anderson, here's where to start... > http://walterandersonmuseum.org/exhibitions/current-exhibitions > I love Walter Anderson and have a framed print of his that I mean to hang if I can ever figure out what it "goes with." Hope everyone can visit that museum one of these days. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Aug 30 21:40:16 2011 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Barrier Island Message-ID: <886f2.45d302b1.3b8eeb00@cs.com> And the poem is right on. Have you been down there? A small enclave of southern civility hemmed in by casino-land. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 01:58:58 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:58:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] short kate greenstreet vid In-Reply-To: <8CE3591DE5AD8AC-21D4-13D08@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE3591DE5AD8AC-21D4-13D08@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Her work is definitely interesting. There are also other longer videos she did. On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:10 AM, wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lSpViHyPi4 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 02:01:08 2011 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:01:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Closing down Message-ID: If you thought you wanted to send something over for the anthology, it is almost time to shut down, ... I am pasting the call again, best wishes. *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE: An Anthology * *(Ed. Anny Ballardini & Obododimma Oha, in collaboration with MICHAEL ROTHENBERG)* ** "We will turn to the idea of the messianic in Chapter Ten of this book, but for the moment it suffices to stress that both Benjamin and Agamben employ the term in singular fashion. For them, a messianic idea of history is not one in which we wait for the Messiah to come, end history, and redeem humanity, but instead is a paradigm for historical time in which we act as though the Messiah is already here, or even has already come and gone. What is so difficult about Agamben's use of the term messianic is how radically it is to be distinguished from the apocalyptic. Agamben says that to understand "messianic time" as it is presented in Paul's letters "one must first distinguish messianic time from apocalyptic time, the time of the now from a time directed towards the future" (LAM, 51). To this he adds, "If l had to try to reduce the distinction to a formula, I would say that the messianic is not, as it is always understood, the end of time, but the time of the end" (LAM, 51). The model of time corresponding to this idea is one that no longer looks for its decisive moment in a more or less remote future, but instead finds it in every minute of every day, in this world and in this life; and it is through such expressions as "dialectics at a standstill" and "means without end" that the two thinkers aim to return our gaze from the distant future to the pressing present." ( from GIORGIO AGAMBEN: *A Critical Introduction*, Leland de la Durantaye, 2009, p. 120) Set in the context of this split between "the end of time" and "the time of the end" is Michael Rothenberg's recent invitation for the global writing public to participate in "a demonstration/celebration of poetry to promote serious social and political change" titled *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE*on 24 September, 2011. As protests for political reforms sweep across North Africa, the Middle East, in some parts of Europe, in the United States, with the recent disasters in The Gulf of Mexico and in Japan, one cannot help thinking about the Project as a highly significant creative response to change as something more than an adjustment to the way social relations are constructed. Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini, in collaboration with Michael Rothenberg?s event, will edit and feature outstanding poetic compositions for the *100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE* on Fieralingue's * Poets? Corner . * Visual artwork, poems, poetic fiction, poetic nonfiction, and photographs to be submitted for consideration should go beyond the simple and gratuitous statement that ?a change is needed.? Our present, our Messianic time requires a STILLSTELLUNG (Benjamin?s word) translated by Dennis Redmond in *On the Concept of History* (1940) with ?an objective interruption of a mechanical process? into which we have been engulfed. Dennis Redmond continues in his explanation of STILLSTELLUNG: ?rather like the dramatic pause at the end of an action-adventure movie, when the audience is waiting to find out if the time-bomb/missile/terrorist device was defused or not.? We feel that we are living in a similar situation, and we are in need of a Stillstellung followed by ideas to offer our politicians, to make students/friends/our communities more aware of how we can change, revise history, start over again. Visual works and photographs for submission are to be saved in JPEG format, while texts, which should not have rigid formatting, are to be in Word. All submissions should be emailed to the editors anny.ballardini at gmail.com and obodooha at gmail.com by September 1, 2011 with "100 THOUSAND POETS FOR CHANGE" in the Subject line. Best wishes, Obododimma Oha Anny Ballardini -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 31 16:16:44 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:16:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E5E96AC.2010204@nut-n-but.net> On 8/30/2011 7:01 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ... He > got lucky with Seidel. Not everyone is dumb all the time. > But note what he wrote about this poet: not a single word that indicates any understanding whatever of poetry. Pure subjective gush. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 31 15:15:32 2011 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <4E5E96AC.2010204@nut-n-but.net> References: <1314748869.65199.YahooMailClassic@web161915.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5E96AC.2010204@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE36297D15BFE0-28D8-2879A@webmail-m158.sysops.aol.com> By God, I agree with Grumman. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 3:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:01 PM, stephen russell wrote: Wait ... this is the asshole critic ... How does one explain?? ... He got lucky with Seidel. Not everyone is dumb all the time. But note what he wrote about this poet: not a single word that indicates any understanding whatever of poetry. Pure subjective gush. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 31 16:26:21 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:26:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <33044.287fbd92.3b8ee06c@cs.com> References: <33044.287fbd92.3b8ee06c@cs.com> Message-ID: <4E5E98ED.3070608@nut-n-but.net> On 8/30/2011 7:55 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:25:02 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> >> Correction: I meant to praise Godfrey by saying he was one of the >> 'lesser-known NY poets'. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:22 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read >> Right Now >> >> Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one >> of the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her >> poetry video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really >> wonderful, and odd choice. >> >> The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two >> titles. Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? >> >> Jim Finnegan >> 860-508-2810 >> >> >> > > Actually, my most recent book, /No Leaf Unturned/, should be added to > this list. It was actually written by Bob Grumman and has a blurb by > Philip Wilbur Howard: > > /Never, I think (if one is allowed to /think /in the context of > contemporary poetry, has such elegance, wit, and fidelity to the > working-class ethic that has defined and still defines the lives of > Americans of our generation, the last we shall know and those few yet > to come, if we are allowed (as well we may) the world-view presented > by various post-Apocalyptic films and other textes. Gwynrumman's work > is supple, transcendent, over-ripe (perhaps, but in a certain degree), > and displays the perfect admixture of carefully considered form, > stirred toxic waste materials, and general evasion of the relevant > that should characterize our strange, reductive times. As someone > else has said, "I cannot praise him highly. Enough."/ > > Aww, Sam, you promised not to tell. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 31 16:23:04 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:23:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <1314750722.19653.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314750722.19653.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: > Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all. > Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice. Crossbreeding ... I'm > thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... > > I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington > Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some > crossbreeding. > Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 31 16:00:39 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:00:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ray Suarez converses with Ernesto Cardenal Message-ID: <8CE362FCA73F4BC-D64-1A20F@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec11/poetcardenal_08-30.html RAY SUAREZ: His recent work reflects on humanity's connection to nature and relationship to the universe. But even in his later years, Cardenal doesn't shy away from politics, or controversy, in his life or his writing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 16:13:16 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <4E5E98ED.3070608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1314821596.35900.YahooMailClassic@web161903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've been waiting for the post-apocalyptic Grumman ... i tremble ... am i ready for the naked, transcendant, working class Grumman? Is anyone? --- On Wed, 8/31/11, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 4:26 PM On 8/30/2011 7:55 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:25:02 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: Correction: I meant to praise Godfrey by saying he was one of the 'lesser-known NY poets'. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right Now Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and odd choice. The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? Jim Finnegan 860-508-2810 Actually, my most recent book, No Leaf Unturned, should be added to this list.? It was actually written by Bob Grumman and has a blurb by Philip Wilbur Howard: Never, I think (if one is allowed to think in the context of contemporary poetry, has such elegance, wit, and fidelity to the working-class ethic that has defined and still defines the lives of Americans of our generation, the last we shall know and those few yet to come, if we are allowed (as well we may) the world-view presented by various post-Apocalyptic films and other textes.? Gwynrumman's work is supple, transcendent, over-ripe (perhaps, but in a certain degree), and displays the perfect admixture of carefully considered form, stirred toxic waste materials, and general evasion of the relevant that should characterize our strange, reductive times.? As someone else has said, "I cannot praise him highly.? Enough." Aww, Sam, you promised not to tell. --Bob -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 31 16:22:12 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:22:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> References: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> I think you are confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all. Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice. Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 17:03:46 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1314824626.79976.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That's what I thought. Shivani was the bad cop. Abramson's blurb concerning Seidel didn't strike me as that bad. Maybe a little purple. I doubt that the editors of these rags would allow for anything of real substance ... certainly nothing concerning the actual mechanics of poetry. & since Abramson actually reviews poets who are not mainstream (I've missed them), the guy deserves a few favorable points. If only grudgeingly -- --- On Wed, 8/31/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 4:22 PM I think you are?confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. ? I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ ? Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all.? Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice.? Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 17:09:51 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <1314824626.79976.YahooMailClassic@web161909.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314824991.53812.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & not only that, I don't mind it when a critic talks about content. Content is part of the vision. I don't even mind it if the critic is ignorant about matters concerning techinique ... as long as said crit makes a stab at saying something of interest ... as long as said crit seems to care about poetry ...? not sure if such a critic exists ... still .... --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:03 PM That's what I thought. Shivani was the bad cop. Abramson's blurb concerning Seidel didn't strike me as that bad. Maybe a little purple. I doubt that the editors of these rags would allow for anything of real substance ... certainly nothing concerning the actual mechanics of poetry. & since Abramson actually reviews poets who are not mainstream (I've missed them), the guy deserves a few favorable points. If only grudgeingly -- --- On Wed, 8/31/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 4:22 PM I think you are?confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. ? I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ ? Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all.? Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice.? Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 17:12:44 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <1314824991.53812.YahooMailClassic@web161913.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314825164.7666.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & not only that, I don't care if I'm Raptured tonight and leave this corrupt planet to the poets ... politician's ... drunks ... though I will miss some of the drunks. --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:09 PM & not only that, I don't mind it when a critic talks about content. Content is part of the vision. I don't even mind it if the critic is ignorant about matters concerning techinique ... as long as said crit makes a stab at saying something of interest ... as long as said crit seems to care about poetry ...? not sure if such a critic exists ... still .... --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:03 PM That's what I thought. Shivani was the bad cop. Abramson's blurb concerning Seidel didn't strike me as that bad. Maybe a little purple. I doubt that the editors of these rags would allow for anything of real substance ... certainly nothing concerning the actual mechanics of poetry. & since Abramson actually reviews poets who are not mainstream (I've missed them), the guy deserves a few favorable points. If only grudgeingly -- --- On Wed, 8/31/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 4:22 PM I think you are?confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. ? I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ ? Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all.? Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice.? Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 17:52:43 2011 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:52:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> References: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Nasty job. Glad I didn't have to do it. I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ Finnegan Serving the tri-state area. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/home *Remains To Be Seen , Sonnets from the Basque & Other Poems , Mainly Black , **Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ; **Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; **Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; **G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > I think you are confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe > at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the > former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. > > I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal > of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... > > http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read > RightNow > > On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: > > Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all. Which, > I suppose, makes him a safe choice. Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some > sick stuff here ... will disregard ... > > I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post > and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. > > > Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many > tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of > what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge > of poetry. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 17:57:43 2011 From: poet_in_hell_files at yahoo.com (stephen russell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <1314825164.7666.YahooMailClassic@web161904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314827863.10256.YahooMailClassic@web161910.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> & not only that, I'm planning a comeback ... where have I been? ... something on the order of a (what did Rimbaud call it?) ... deranging all the senses ... yeah ... that should work ... I'll rearrange the senses ... did Rimbaud do that? ... In either Illuminations? or hell? ... just wait ... --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:12 PM & not only that, I don't care if I'm Raptured tonight and leave this corrupt planet to the poets ... politician's ... drunks ... though I will miss some of the drunks. --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:09 PM & not only that, I don't mind it when a critic talks about content. Content is part of the vision. I don't even mind it if the critic is ignorant about matters concerning techinique ... as long as said crit makes a stab at saying something of interest ... as long as said crit seems to care about poetry ...? not sure if such a critic exists ... still .... --- On Wed, 8/31/11, stephen russell wrote: From: stephen russell Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: "NewPoetry List" Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 5:03 PM That's what I thought. Shivani was the bad cop. Abramson's blurb concerning Seidel didn't strike me as that bad. Maybe a little purple. I doubt that the editors of these rags would allow for anything of real substance ... certainly nothing concerning the actual mechanics of poetry. & since Abramson actually reviews poets who are not mainstream (I've missed them), the guy deserves a few favorable points. If only grudgeingly -- --- On Wed, 8/31/11, jforjames at aol.com wrote: From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 4:22 PM I think you are?confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. ? I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ ? Finnegan ? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all.? Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice.? Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe.? But he doesn't hate all poets.? Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 31 19:27:37 2011 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:27:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should ReadRightNow In-Reply-To: <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> References: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> <8CE3632CD6A0B7C-D64-1A59C@webmail-d052.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E5EC369.9070501@nut-n-but.net> On 8/31/2011 3:22 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I think you are confusing Abramson with Shivani. Abramson takes a > swipe at Shivani at the outset of this piece. I don't know a whole lot > about the former..but I agree with almost nothing said by the latter. > I do know that Seth Abramson is a poetry blogger who has spent a good > deal of time evaluating and ranking MFA Creative Writing programs. See... > > http://www.creative-writing-mfa-handbook.blogspot.com/ Thanks for the clarification. I'm pretty sure I'm agin both. And don't yet see much difference between them. Maybe Shivani IS against all contemporary poetry. --Bob -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 31 19:45:24 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:45:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> References: <1314750722.19653.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CE364F2FE49B59-125C-2A009@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> All -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all. Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice. Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 31 20:27:00 2011 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 20:27:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <8CE3650C88C34E6-125C-2A2AA@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> References: <1314750722.19653.YahooMailClassic@web161914.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5E9828.8050502@nut-n-but.net> <8CE3650C88C34E6-125C-2A2AA@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CE3654FFF81DFD-125C-2A988@Webmail-d109.sysops.aol.com> Excuse that last errant email... Any review/criticism is subjective to a degree. Abramson is citing some books he recommends that other readers look at. Books he's obviously read with enjoyment. I don't see any problem with that. Bob you are welcome, on this list, to do the same thing. Promote a book you think others on the list should read. No in depth exegsis required. A simple blurbish post will do. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 4:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow On 8/30/2011 7:32 PM, stephen russell wrote: Seidel was the only name I recognized. A Big po name, after all. Which, I suppose, makes him a safe choice. Crossbreeding ... I'm thinking some sick stuff here ... will disregard ... I'm sure I mistook Seth A for the critic who wrote for the Huffington Post and seemed to hate everybody. My memory could use some crossbreeding. Same yahoo, I believe. But he doesn't hate all poets. Like many tenth-raters, he has a few favorites, many unfavorites, and no knowledge of what's going on in contemporary poetry, and probably very little knowledge of poetry. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 22:06:43 2011 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:06:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read RightNow In-Reply-To: <4E5E98ED.3070608@nut-n-but.net> References: <33044.287fbd92.3b8ee06c@cs.com> <4E5E98ED.3070608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Kate's supplementary materials are better on her website than on you tube -- and she's an amazing reader!!!! On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 8/30/2011 7:55 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:25:02 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > Correction: I meant to praise Godfrey by saying he was one of the > 'lesser-known NY poets'. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 10 "Recent" Books of Poetry You Should Read Right > Now > > Seidel is safe choice of the lot (a collected poems!). Godfrey is one of > the lesser NY poets. Kate Greenstreet is very good. Check out her poetry > video on youtube. And Christopher Logue's War Music is really wonderful, and > odd choice. > > The oddest thing about the list is that word 'mule' appears in two titles. > Has he got a thing about crossbreeding? > > Jim Finnegan > 860-508-2810 > > > > > Actually, my most recent book, *No Leaf Unturned*, should be added to this > list. It was actually written by Bob Grumman and has a blurb by Philip > Wilbur Howard: > > *Never, I think (if one is allowed to *think *in the context of > contemporary poetry, has such elegance, wit, and fidelity to the > working-class ethic that has defined and still defines the lives of > Americans of our generation, the last we shall know and those few yet to > come, if we are allowed (as well we may) the world-view presented by various > post-Apocalyptic films and other textes. Gwynrumman's work is supple, > transcendent, over-ripe (perhaps, but in a certain degree), and displays the > perfect admixture of carefully considered form, stirred toxic waste > materials, and general evasion of the relevant that should characterize our > strange, reductive times. As someone else has said, "I cannot praise him > highly. Enough."* > > > Aww, Sam, you promised not to tell. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 17:44:15 2011 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:44:15 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Review Copies go to... ? Message-ID: <1314221645.53903.YahooMailNeo@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> You haven't been keeping up with what's "hot" in Poetry.? You have a new book coming out in a few months; where should the review copies go!? Amy ? ********* VIDA: ?Women in Literary Arts +?Interviews Amy's Alias +?http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: