From new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Wed Sep 1 15:06:20 2010 From: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu (new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:06:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry bombing over Berlin Message-ID: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/08/poetry-bombs-berlin-los-angeles.html Chilean art collective Casagrande dropped 100,000 bookmarks printed with poems from a helicopter over Berlin on Saturday night. The works were by 80 poets from Chile and Germany, and the poetry bombing was meant as an action to protest war and support peace. The group has done this before, the Guardian reports: It was the fifth "poetry rain" project from Chilean art collective Casagrande, which has arranged previous poetry bombing events in Santiago de Chile (2001), Dubrovnik (2002), Gernika (2004) and Warsaw (2009) -- all cities which, like Berlin, have suffered aerial bombings during their history. ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 1 16:15:56 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:15:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry bombing over Berlin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm currently reading Marie Vassilitchikov's description of the carpet bombing of Berlin in her Berlin Diaries (strong;y recommend). This email prompted strange and uncomfortable feelings. I wonder how Berliners felt about it. At 03:06 PM 9/1/2010, you wrote: >http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/08/poetry-bombs-berlin-los-angeles.html >Chilean art collective Casagrande dropped >100,000 bookmarks printed with poems from a >helicopter over Berlin on Saturday night. The >works were by 80 poets from Chile and Germany, >and the poetry bombing was meant as an action to >protest war and support peace. The group has >done this before, the Guardian reports: > >It was the fifth "poetry rain" project from >Chilean art collective Casagrande, which has >arranged previous poetry bombing events in >Santiago de Chile (2001), Dubrovnik (2002), >Gernika (2004) and Warsaw (2009) -- all cities >which, like Berlin, have suffered aerial bombings during their history. ... >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seamascain at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 16:40:23 2010 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 15:40:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Prairie Voices Message-ID: _______________ IMRAM, a national literary festival in Ireland, in association with the Dublin City Arts Centre and T?Aitreo, will present "The Prairie Gaeltacht" by S?amas Cain. Performances will begin at 7:00 p.m. on Monday and Tuesday, September 20 and 21, 2010 at CITY ARTS, 15 Bachelor?s Walk, Dublin 1, Ireland. Describing the script for The Prairie Gaeltacht, Liam Carson, director of the IMRAM Festival, said "poetic, beautiful, moving, simple, evocative. I'm really looking forward to experiencing the performance." And the Irish writer Gabriel Rosenstock described the script as "very moving." http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/20/-the-prairie-gaeltacht-gaeltacht-na-bhfarthailte/ THE PRAIRIE GAELTACHT "I remember herds of buffalo on the prairie, beautiful Indian ponies ... the coyotes howling at dusk." So speaks one voice in S?amas Cain?s dramatic evocation of what he calls The Prairie Gaeltacht. Drawing on his own conversations with relatives, S?amas Cain?s narrative probes deep into family, land and language. Through their plain but poetic voices, history is relived. Here Irish settlers learn from Indians "where strawberries grew and which birds were most delicious to hunt." Here is Thomas Burke, kinsman of Edmund, fleeing to the Irish Colonies of Minnesota in 1878. We are brought from the time of the wagon trains to the day electricity arrived in the village of Murdock in 1922. Along the way we hear stories of the Molly Maguires, the communitarian Connemaras and their vision of creating a Gaelic socialist utopia on the prairies of western Minnesota; of fiddlers and harmonica players at dances; of droughts, crop failures, snowstorms, and swarms of locusts. The Prairie Gaeltacht is an extraordinary bi-lingual journey into a haunting past. Actors from T?Aitreo will re-create in Irish the words and stories of S?amas Cain?s grandparents and their cousins and friends, whilst Cain himself will narrate in English. A unique insight into an almost forgotten history, The Prairie Gaeltacht is a deeply personal odyssey from one of America?s most radical and inventive of poets. http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/20/-the-prairie-gaeltacht-gaeltacht-na-bhfarthailte/ _______________ S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 1 21:56:24 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:56:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] reading while riding Message-ID: <8CD18592E99397B-19CC-52ED@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> http://baroqueinhackney.wordpress.com/2010/08/28/poetry-files-10-more-star-tattooes/ According to The Sun (I know, not my usual source), the pop star ? & Hackney homegirl ? Leona Lewis ?has had a soppy poem about a horse inked in a long line down her spine as a permanent tribute to her favourite animal.? It reads: Their beauty captures every eye, A gift from God for all man kind, They lend us wings so we may fly, To ride a horse is to ride the sky. Leona said: ?It?s a bit weird but then I?m a bit weird, so that?s OK.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 1 22:34:16 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:34:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test something; you can ignore Message-ID: <8CD185E78AD2457-E8C-57BE@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> Test message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 02:02:25 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:02:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conspiracy Against Poems" by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <108476.63168.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <8CD15F8A69937B0-CA4-586C@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> <3B37AC67-12A5-48D8-856D-4DCA7E9F43F8@ripon.edu> <108476.63168.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In my lost mail I was praising Amy's find: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:28 PM, amy king wrote: > I found this: > > > > *The Talk About the Talk* > > > > > > In 2010, a majority of toiling milieus > > seem grounded in the words they serve. > > O nebulous living, what is meant to become? > > The chief puts two red herrings? > > American universities and work? into youth, > > the newest of the new, > > to practice anything (striated with political correctness), > > but unthinking creation stays > > its own romantic pond. > > > > Putting aside for a moment the strength > > of argument here, the result collapses > > over and over before > > it gets off the ground: retirement, reward, satiety. > > A lot of places in the U.S. and very few ring true. > > > > As if too much time in blogland becomes > > your nose so close, you can't see another picture. > > All is false, of course, within the contemporary zone. > > > > There is no historical evidence that > > something ever existed. Take the romantic lakes, > > never quite evaporated > > but mirror still the aging impulse, > > an aura that poets obsolesce out. > > Simply put, people mainly construct > > a guilt towards no such thing as control. > > The conceit is that teetering master > > narrative from the one who plugs it with his thumb. > > The upshot is a bastardized force > > that must cease to be itself and anything otherwise done. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Cervantes > * > * > >> >> On Aug 29, 2010, at 8:20 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >> Why is it that in 2010, a majority of poets, particularly those >> toiling in experimental milieus, seem both more grounded in and more >> stimulated >> by theories than by the poems they bolster? What is this nebulous entity, >> ?poetics,? and how has it sapped the life out of what it is meant to >> serve? The >> chief weakness of the pursuit of ?poetics,? as I see it, is that it puts >> premiums on two red herrings?novelties and political correctness. >> ?Poetics,? as >> practiced by the bolder American universities, wants to investigate the >> newest >> of the new, anything (striated, of course, within the taut bounds of >> political >> correctness) that has not been done before. But practicing ?poetics? >> creates and >> perpetuates its own kind of romantic ideology?an unthinking and >> uncritical >> belief in one?s self-representations as planted firmly in the new, fresh, >> and >> bold.? >> >> ---------------------------------- >> >> Putting aside for a moment the strength of Fieled's argument here, or lack >> thereof, it seems to me that his case collapses before it gets off the >> ground, due to a highly dubious premise. I know a lot of poets in a lot of >> places in the U.S.A., and very few are captured by his generalization. So >> to claim that "a majority of poets" are grounded in "poetics" (as he defines >> it) just doesn't ring true. >> >> Sounds to me as if Fieled has been spending too much time in blogland, >> reading (are you listening, BobG?) too narrow a range of commentary on >> poetry. It's a common problem for critics: your nose so close to your >> subject that you can't see the bigger picture. All generalizations are >> false, of course, but especially those concerning the contemporary scene. >> > > I agree. He's in the realm of the talk-about-the-talk, something I railed > against when I first joined this list. > > > -- Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 07:50:17 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 06:50:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test something; you can ignore In-Reply-To: <8CD185E78AD2457-E8C-57BE@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD185E78AD2457-E8C-57BE@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Actualy, "Test Something You Can Ignore" might be considered title material by a number of people who confuse stand-up comedy with poetry and get "the slacker rant." On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, wrote: > Test message. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 08:24:31 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:24:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test something; you can ignore In-Reply-To: References: <8CD185E78AD2457-E8C-57BE@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: if you are all a' la mode test something you can ignore deplore the mood of young a semiole and let the slacker visit once more moral poo r poor mode On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Actualy, "Test Something You Can Ignore" might be considered title material > > by a number of people who confuse stand-up comedy with poetry and get > "the slacker rant." > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, wrote: > >> Test message. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 08:56:56 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:56:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Prairie Voices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: _______________ IMRAM, a national literary festival in Ireland, in association with the Dublin City Arts Centre and T?Aitreo, will present "The Prairie Gaeltacht" by S?amas Cain. Performances will begin at 7:00 p.m. on Monday and Tuesday, September 20 and 21, 2010 at CITY ARTS, 15 Bachelor?s Walk, Dublin 1, Ireland. Describing the script for The Prairie Gaeltacht, Liam Carson, director of the IMRAM Festival, said "poetic, beautiful, moving, simple, evocative. I'm really looking forward to experiencing the performance." And the Irish writer Gabriel Rosenstock described the script as "very moving." http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/20/-the-prairie-gaeltacht-gaeltacht-na-bhfarthailte/ THE PRAIRIE GAELTACHT "I remember herds of buffalo on the prairie, beautiful Indian ponies ... the coyotes howling at dusk." So speaks one voice in S?amas Cain?s dramatic evocation of what he calls The Prairie Gaeltacht. Drawing on his own conversations with relatives, S?amas Cain?s narrative probes deep into family, land and language. Through their plain but poetic voices, history is relived. Here Irish settlers learn from Indians "where strawberries grew and which birds were most delicious to hunt." Here is Thomas Burke, kinsman of Edmund, fleeing to the Irish Colonies of Minnesota in 1878. We are brought from the time of the wagon trains to the day electricity arrived in the village of Murdock in 1922. Along the way we hear stories of the Molly Maguires, the communitarian Connemaras and their vision of creating a Gaelic socialist utopia on the prairies of western Minnesota; of fiddlers and harmonica players at dances; of droughts, crop failures, snowstorms, and swarms of locusts. The Prairie Gaeltacht is an extraordinary bi-lingual journey into a haunting past. Actors from T?Aitreo will re-create in Irish the words and stories of S?amas Cain?s grandparents and their cousins and friends, whilst Cain himself will narrate in English. A unique insight into an almost forgotten history, The Prairie Gaeltacht is a deeply personal odyssey from one of America?s most radical and inventive of poets. http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/20/-the-prairie-gaeltacht-gaeltacht-na-bhfarthailte/ _______________ S?amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 09:27:30 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 06:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Esque -- a new online journal of p/oetry and man/ifesto Message-ID: <841909.40115.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From the editors Amy King and Ana Bozicevic a new online journal of p/oetry and man/ifesto: ESQUE http://www.esquemag.com http://www.esque.eu *note: esque is a flash site. wait a full minute while it loads. enjoy.* In ISSUE 1: OETRY is the kitchen sink. Charles Bernstein. Bei Dao. Tamiko Beyer. Jackie Clark. Amy De'Ath. Lidija Dimkovska. Kate Durbin. Steven Karl. Natalie Lyalin. Filip Marinovich. Sharon Mesmer. Miguel Murphy. Ariana Reines. Saeed Jones. Tomaz Salamun. Evie Shockley. Heidi Lynn Staples. Leigh Stein. Cole Swensen. John Tranter. Matvei Yankelevich. IFESTO is everything but. Jennifer Bartlett. Jillian Brall. Ching-In Chen. Ken Chen. Rachel Blau DuPlessis. Jennifer H. Fortin. Molly Gaudry. Roxane Gay. Matt Hart. Brenda Hillman. Dan Hoy. Ron Padgett & Olivier Brossard. Lars Palm. Joan Retallack. Brandon Shimoda. Anne Waldman. Franz Wright. Carolyn Zaikowski. visit ESQUE http://www.esquemag.com http://www.esque.eu -- ********* Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Nepotism? + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 2 11:13:51 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:13:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? the raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into words and then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. This process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and passive in the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of my experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that I want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in all its complexities and contradictions. An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems can be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph over human isolation. Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 2 11:29:44 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:29:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <8CD18CACD902447-2044-14A5@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/books/01book.html?src=me Young Man Seeks Poetry in World War II?s Ruins By DWIGHT GARNER Published: August 31, 2010 Daniel Swift?s ?Bomber County? takes its title from a nickname for a part of northeast England where, he writes, ?every country lane ends in an old airfield.? During World War II, Allied bombers took off from Bomber County and ? a few harrowing hours later ? with luck, they came home again. The mental image of clusters of hidden airfields is a useful one for thinking about Mr. Swift?s small but ardent book, his first. ?Bomber County? is its own series of runways, one from which a variety of genres (memoir, war history, literary criticism) take off and sometimes daringly land, having delivered formidable emotional and intellectual payloads. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:21:53 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:21:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin & Glenn Beck!) On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: > When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? the > raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into words and > then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. This > process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and passive in > the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of my > experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. > > Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that I > want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in all > its complexities and contradictions. > > An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems can > be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph over > human isolation. > > Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) > > http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Sep 2 12:28:39 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:28:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... c On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin & > Glenn Beck!) > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? the >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into words and >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. This >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and passive in >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of my >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that I >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in all >> its complexities and contradictions. >> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems can >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph over >> human isolation. >> >> Gregory Orr, from "The?Making of Poems" (This I?Believe series on NPR) >> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 12:40:13 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:40:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... > > c > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin & > > Glenn Beck!) > > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: > >> > >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? the > >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into words > and > >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. This > >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and passive > in > >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of my > >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. > >> > >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that > I > >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in > all > >> its complexities and contradictions. > >> > >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems > can > >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph > over > >> human isolation. > >> > >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) > >> > >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 13:03:14 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] hilarious Newer Metaphysicals Message-ID: <760322.11193.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey kids, Have you all seen Nicholas Manning's "What is Poetry? Manning Makes?Fun of?His Elders"? Read all of them, they're a scream (IMHO). Here's an excerpt, happy reading. ""Poetry is ordinary language raised to the Nth Power." >????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? -Paul >Engle First of all, ?The Nth Power? here sounds suspiciously like some early eighties Dutch electro-dub group, or perhaps a hip Paris club in the centre of the Marais which nobody can ever find, and where at midnight a recorded announcement invites you to ?Raise Up To The Nth Power?, upon which the ghosts of Marina Tsvetaeva, Ezra Pound and Eugenio Montale come out from nowhere on the higher balconies and start grinding it out to a random Pet Shop Boys' song you'd long forgotten even existed." ? Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 13:16:54 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:16:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <8CD18CACD902447-2044-14A5@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD18CACD902447-2044-14A5@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been moreso if it included the poetry of those on the receiving end. At 11:29 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/books/01book.html?src=me >Young Man Seeks Poetry in World War II???s Ruins >By DWIGHT GARNER >Published: August 31, 2010 > >Daniel Swift???s ???Bomber County??? takes its >title from a nickname for a part of northeast >England where, he writes, ???every country lane >ends in an old airfield.??? During World War II, >Allied bombers took off from Bomber County and ? >a few harrowing houurs later ? with luck, they came home again. > >The mental image of clusters of hidden airfields >is a useful one for thinking about Mr. Swift???s >small but ardent book, his first. ???Bomber >County??? is its own series of runways, one from >which a variety of genres (memoir, war history, >literary criticism) take off and sometimes >daringly land, having delivered formidable >emotional and intellectual payloads. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 13:32:38 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 12:32:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] hilarious Newer Metaphysicals In-Reply-To: <760322.11193.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <760322.11193.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: quite lovely On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hey kids, > Have you all seen Nicholas Manning's "What is Poetry? Manning Makes Fun > of His Elders"? Read all of them, they're a scream (IMHO). Here's an > excerpt, happy reading. > > *""Poetry is ordinary language raised to the Nth Power."* > * > -Paul Engle* > > > First > of all, ?The Nth Power? here sounds suspiciously like some early eighties > Dutch electro-dub group, or perhaps a hip Paris club in the centre of the > Marais which nobody can ever find, and where at midnight a recorded > announcement invites you to ?Raise Up To The Nth Power?, upon which the > ghosts of Marina Tsvetaeva, Ezra Pound and Eugenio Montale come out from > nowhere on the higher balconies and start grinding it out to a random Pet > Shop Boys' song you'd long forgotten even existed." > > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 2 14:03:35 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:03:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Prize judges announced Message-ID: <8CD18E04BAE2DF7-E18-1ED6@webmail-m049.sysops.aol.com> The world?s biggest poetry prize announced its 2011 judging panel Wednesday. Canadian Tim Lilburn joins Colm To?b?n from Ireland, and Chase Twichell, of the United States, as judges for the 2011 Griffin Poetry Prize. Read more: http://arts.nationalpost.com/2010/09/01/griffin-poetry-prize-judges-announced/#ixzz0yOdPp0HW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 14:27:32 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 20:27:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry Exists: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 Best wishes, Anny On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a > run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > >> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >> >> c >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin & >> > Glenn Beck!) >> > >> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >> >> >> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >> the >> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >> words and >> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >> This >> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >> passive in >> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of >> my >> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >> >> >> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that >> I >> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in >> all >> >> its complexities and contradictions. >> >> >> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems >> can >> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph >> over >> >> human isolation. >> >> >> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) >> >> >> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 14:35:59 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 13:35:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New York Times, above the fold, front page. Botox settlement. Message-ID: My son, Benjamin Ezra Fox, was one of the lead attorneys! (MY ex-wife and I named him after a poem by one of Pound's favorite Victorian poets, Browning's "Rabbi Iben Ezra," a poem he had me recite the first two stanzas of at his wedding: a paean to old age becomes an epithelium. "Come grow old along with me," indeed.) I'm very proud of him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 14:31:14 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 20:31:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] hilarious Newer Metaphysicals In-Reply-To: References: <760322.11193.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you teach poetry... it is the best way to dislike it, no puns intended. Some, like David Graham, are Heroes. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > quite lovely > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > >> Hey kids, >> Have you all seen Nicholas Manning's "What is Poetry? Manning Makes Fun >> of His Elders"? Read all of them, they're a scream (IMHO). Here's an >> excerpt, happy reading. >> >> *""Poetry is ordinary language raised to the Nth Power."* >> * >> -Paul Engle* >> >> >> First >> of all, ?The Nth Power? here sounds suspiciously like some early eighties >> Dutch electro-dub group, or perhaps a hip Paris club in the centre of the >> Marais which nobody can ever find, and where at midnight a recorded >> announcement invites you to ?Raise Up To The Nth Power?, upon which the >> ghosts of Marina Tsvetaeva, Ezra Pound and Eugenio Montale come out from >> nowhere on the higher balconies and start grinding it out to a random Pet >> Shop Boys' song you'd long forgotten even existed." >> >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 15:43:53 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 21:43:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] New York Times, above the fold, front page. Botox settlement. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations! Anny On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > My son, Benjamin Ezra Fox, was one of the lead attorneys! > > (MY ex-wife and I named him after a poem by one of Pound's favorite > Victorian poets, Browning's "Rabbi Iben Ezra," a poem he had me recite the > first two stanzas of at his wedding: a paean to old age becomes an > epithelium. "Come grow old along with me," indeed.) > > I'm very proud of him. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 15:47:09 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:47:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I overheard an AA meeting last week. - Jim On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: > When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? the > raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into words and > then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. This > process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and passive in > the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of my > experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. > > Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof that I > want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in all > its complexities and contradictions. > > An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems can > be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further triumph over > human isolation. > > Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) > > http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:06:33 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 17:06:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and couldn't find it. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry > Exists: > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 > > Best wishes, Anny > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>> >>> c >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin >>> & >>> > Glenn Beck!) >>> > >>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>> >> >>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>> the >>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>> words and >>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>> This >>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>> passive in >>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of >>> my >>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>> >> >>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>> that I >>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life in >>> all >>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>> >> >>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because poems >>> can >>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>> triumph over >>> >> human isolation. >>> >> >>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on NPR) >>> >> >>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:07:58 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:07:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: That's two things, Tad. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a > reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I > was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and > couldn't find it. > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry >> Exists: >> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 >> >> Best wishes, Anny >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >> >>> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >>> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>>> >>>> c >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin >>>> & >>>> > Glenn Beck!) >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>>> the >>>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>>> words and >>>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>>> This >>>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>>> passive in >>>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of >>>> my >>>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>>> >> >>>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>>> that I >>>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life >>>> in all >>>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>>> >> >>>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because >>>> poems can >>>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>>> triumph over >>>> >> human isolation. >>>> >> >>>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on >>>> NPR) >>>> >> >>>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:47:20 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 23:47:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: :-) Poor Tad, I can easily help you with one, feels like being an angel, a tough thing to be these days. Main index: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content New Poetry Mailing List: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=62 On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > That's two things, Tad. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a >> reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I >> was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and >> couldn't find it. >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry >>> Exists: >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 >>> >>> Best wishes, Anny >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >>> >>>> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >>>> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>>>> >>>>> c >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>>>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah >>>>> Palin & >>>>> > Glenn Beck!) >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>>>> the >>>>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>>>> words and >>>>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>>>> This >>>>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>>>> passive in >>>>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper >>>>> of my >>>>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>>>> that I >>>>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life >>>>> in all >>>>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because >>>>> poems can >>>>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>>>> triumph over >>>>> >> human isolation. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on >>>>> NPR) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:51:25 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:51:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Or even three. Maybe even more. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > That's two things, Tad. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a >> reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I >> was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and >> couldn't find it. >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry >>> Exists: >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 >>> >>> Best wishes, Anny >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >>> >>>> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >>>> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>>>> >>>>> c >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>>>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah >>>>> Palin & >>>>> > Glenn Beck!) >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>>>> the >>>>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>>>> words and >>>>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>>>> This >>>>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>>>> passive in >>>>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper >>>>> of my >>>>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>>>> that I >>>>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life >>>>> in all >>>>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because >>>>> poems can >>>>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>>>> triumph over >>>>> >> human isolation. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on >>>>> NPR) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 17:52:24 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 23:52:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: References: <8CD18CACD902447-2044-14A5@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: What he?s done is more unusual, and more interesting. ?Bomber County? tells the story of Mr. Swift?s grandfather, a pilot with the 83rd Squadronof the Royal Air Force, who on June 12, 1943, climbed aboard a Lancaster bomber, along with six other men for a raid on M?nster, Germany. His plane never returned. A few days later his body washed ashore in the Netherlands. Most of the other men?s bodies were never found. Mr. Swift?s grandfather James Eric Swift was 30 when he died. He?d been on 38 sorties; his 39th was his last. By all accounts he was a good man, and a brave one. But beyond a few youthful letters, and some stray biographical information, he left little behind. He was a mystery. Mr. Swift does what he can to piece together the details of his grandfather?s life, and he makes some surprising archival discoveries about how he met his end. But the real project of ?Bomber County? is an imaginative and literary one. He employs his grandfather?s story as a lens through which to view the poetry of World War II. The author is refreshingly, almost brutally, honest when he says about his grandfather: ?I think I wanted to tell a story, and he was available.? This book?s twin stories ? about one man, and about one war?s poetry ? begin in the same graveyard. Along with his own father, James Eric Swift?s son, who was 3 when his father died, the author visits the cemetery in the Netherlands where his grandfather is buried. He notes the severe uniformity of the wartime headstones, but also this: that many headstones have scraps of poetry on them. ?The graves were quoting one another,? he observes, and ?they were carrying on a conversation in verse.? On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been moreso if it included the > poetry of those on the receiving end. > > > At 11:29 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/books/01book.html?src=me > Young Man Seeks Poetry in World War II???s Ruins > > By DWIGHT GARNER > Published: August 31, 2010 > > Daniel Swift???s ???Bomber County?? takes its title from a nickname for a > part of northeast England where, he writes, ???every country lane ends in an > old airfield.?? During World War II, Allied bombers took off from Bomber > County and ? a few harrowing houurs later ? with luck, they came home again. > > > The mental image of clusters of hidden airfields is a useful one for > thinking about Mr. Swift???s small but ardent book, his first. ???Bomber > County?? is its own series of runways, one from which a variety of genres > (memoir, war history, literary criticism) take off and sometimes daringly > land, having delivered formidable emotional and intellectual payloads. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, *As Landscape. > *$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? > fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the > more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical > threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 2 19:04:11 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:04:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com><4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net><8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail -m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C802D6B.5060105@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > That's two things, Tad. Right. I wrote a poem inspired by one of yours, but never anything inspired by the other guy you mentioned. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 18:01:07 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:01:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Anny - you can give me a reputation to rival Auden's? On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a > reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I > was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and > couldn't find it. > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry >> Exists: >> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 >> >> Best wishes, Anny >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >> >>> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >>> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>>> >>>> c >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah Palin >>>> & >>>> > Glenn Beck!) >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>>> the >>>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>>> words and >>>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>>> This >>>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>>> passive in >>>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper of >>>> my >>>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>>> >> >>>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>>> that I >>>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life >>>> in all >>>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>>> >> >>>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because >>>> poems can >>>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>>> triumph over >>>> >> human isolation. >>>> >> >>>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on >>>> NPR) >>>> >> >>>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 2 18:11:51 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:11:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <20a0d.5aa511fc.39b17b27@cs.com> In a message dated 9/2/2010 10:30:08 AM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/books/01book.html?src=me > Young Man Seeks Poetry in World War II?s Ruins > By DWIGHT GARNER > Published: August 31, 2010 > > Daniel Swift?s ?Bomber County? takes its title from a nickname for a part > of northeast England where, he writes, ?every country lane ends in an old > airfield.? During World War II, Allied bombers took off from Bomber County > and ? a few harrowing hours later ? with luck, they came home again. > > The mental image of clusters of hidden airfields is a useful one for > thinking about Mr. Swift?s small but ardent book, his first. ?Bomber County? > is its own series of runways, one from which a variety of genres (memoir, > war history, literary criticism) take off and sometimes daringly land, having > delivered formidable emotional and intellectual payloads. > > > > The opening and closing sequences of "12 O'clock High" have always moved me, and the movie was made only four years or so after VE Day. Dean Jagger (Oscar winner), wearing tweeds and homburg, bicycles out to an old 8th Air Force base. There's not much left--a few buildings, cows, and and a grass-encroached runway. Then, as he stands there, the roar of the planes' engines starts up and the film begins with crippled bombers coming back from a hard mission. Such a massive effort to build, stock and staff those places, and all gone back to the fields so quickly. It's the best visual representation of swords being beaten into plowshares that I can think of. I'm sure the young and cynical will think this corny, but I was a child of that "greatest generation" and honor their memory. It's one of the finest opening sequences of any film I can think of, directed by the much underrated Henry King. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi2NwU38NzA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 18:19:55 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:19:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: References: <8CD18CACD902447-2044-14A5@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I read the article, but I'm also reading a diary of the air raids on Berrlin, from the ground-level perspective. I'm not criticizing what genuinely sounds like an interesting book, just noting that there's another side to be dealt with. At 05:52 PM 9/2/2010, you wrote: >What he?s done is more unusual, and more >interesting. ?Bomber County? tells the story of >Mr. Swift?s grandfather, a pilot with >the > 83rd Squadron of the Royal Air Force, who on >June 12, 1943, climbed aboard a >Lancaster >bomber, along with six other men for a raid on >M?nster, Germany. His plane never returned. A >few days later his body washed ashore in the >Netherlands. Most of the other men?s bodies were never found. > >Mr. Swift?s grandfather James Eric Swift was 30 >when he died. He?d been on 38 sorties; his 39th >was his last. By all accounts he was a good man, >and a brave one. But beyond a few youthful >letters, and some stray biographical >information, he left little behind. He was a >mystery. Mr. Swift does what he can to piece >together the details of his grandfather?s life, >and he makes some surprising archival >discoveries about how he met his end. But the >real project of ?Bomber County? is an >imaginative and literary one. He employs his >grandfather?s story as a lens through which to >view the poetry of World War II. The author is >refreshingly, almost brutally, honest when he >says about his grandfather: ?I think I wanted to >tell a story, and he was available.? > >This book?s twin stories ? about one man, and >about one war?s poetry ? begin in the same >graveyard. Along with his own father, James Eric >Swift?s son, who was 3 when his father died, the >author visits the cemetery in the Netherlands >where his grandfather is buried. He notes the >severe uniformity of the wartime headstones, but >also this: that many headstones have scraps of poetry on them. > >?The graves were quoting one another,? he >observes, and ?they were carrying on a conversation in verse.? > > >On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been >moreso if it included the poetry of those on the receiving end. > > >At 11:29 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: >>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/books/01book.html?src=me >>Young Man Seeks Poetry in World War II???s Ruins >> >>By DWIGHT GARNER >>Published: August 31, 2010 >> >>Daniel Swift???s ???Bomber County?? takes its >>title from a nickname for a part of northeast >>England where, he writes, ???every country lane >>ends in an old airfield.?? During World War II, >>Allied bombers took off from Bomber County and >>? a few harrowing houurs later ? with luck, they came home again. >> >>The mental image of clusters of hidden >>airfields is a useful one for thinking about >>Mr. Swift???s small but ardent book, his first. >>???Bomber County?? is its own series of >>runways, one from which a variety of genres >>(memoir, war history, literary criticism) take >>off and sometimes daringly land, having >>delivered formidable emotional and intellectual payloads. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from >http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 2 18:45:00 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:45:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been moreso if it included >> the poetry of those on the receiving end. >> >> >> > > Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during World War II, which, as I have been told, was a fairly brutal war that involved a lot of countries. I'm sure there's plenty of witness from German victims as well as from Londoners who went through the Blitz. History isn't always as nice and neat as we'd wish it to be. Of course, in hindsight it may have been a nice gesture on the part of the RAF and the US 8th Air Force to have dropped, during several rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those German cities (after all, sugar was severely rationed). I'm sure that, as soon as they realized the benevolence of the intent, that the German 88 crews wouldn't have fired back and would instead have rushed out with their tongues outstretched to the skies. Probably they would have surrendered in, say, 1943. http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres at jcu.edu Thu Sep 2 18:55:13 2010 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> References: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> Message-ID: <20100902185513.DQK46508@mirapoint.jcu.edu> I know you're kidding, Sam, no one doubts the evils of the Nazi regime. And indeed every book has its place, and does its work. But I guess I stand with Mark in that, for far too long, the "war story" and "war poem" have been the province of the soldiers, or told in the frame of the soldier...when in the last century, casualties of war were increasingly civilians (some statistics say up to 90%). The idea that we can tell a certain version of the story of war without including that 90% seems amazing to me. It's the literary equivalent of telling the story of the Napoleonic wars by following Napoleon alone. Tolstoy had something to say about that. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:45:00 EDT >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing >To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > > In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central > Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > > Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been > moreso if it included the poetry of those on the > receiving end. > > Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during World > War II, which, as I have been told, was a fairly > brutal war that involved a lot of countries. I'm > sure there's plenty of witness from German victims > as well as from Londoners who went through the > Blitz. History isn't always as nice and neat as > we'd wish it to be. Of course, in hindsight it may > have been a nice gesture on the part of the RAF and > the US 8th Air Force to have dropped, during several > rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those > German cities (after all, sugar was severely > rationed). I'm sure that, as soon as they realized > the benevolence of the intent, that the German 88 > crews wouldn't have fired back and would instead > have rushed out with their tongues outstretched to > the skies. Probably they would have surrendered in, > say, 1943. > > http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 >________________ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 2 18:55:48 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:55:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <1988fd.dd7b0a9.39b18574@cs.com> In a message dated 9/2/2010 5:37:21 PM Central Daylight Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: > > I read the article, but I'm also reading a diary of the air raids on > Berrlin, from the ground-level perspective. I'm not criticizing what genuinely > sounds like an interesting book, just noting that there's another side to be > dealt with. > In this war, that was not "another side"; it was the "other side." We may not be perfect on our side, but the other side was the one that exterminated 6,000,000 people ("another side"?) that they didn't like. This is in addition to the other millions ("collateral damage"?) that they also killed. Lots of civilians got killed on both "this side" and "another side." Hiroshima? Yes. Nagasaki? Yes. Try Nanking. Try Buchenwald. Try Auschwitz. It was bad. A lot of it was evil. Most of it was evil. And it couldn't have been otherwise, given the historical circumstances. Nicholson Baker's Human Smoke is a beautiful pipe-dream of a book. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 19:06:06 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> References: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> Message-ID: <625430.32054.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sam, That's a wonderful idea. Let me know when you try that marshmallow thing over Nancy, France. That way I can be prepared to?stick out my tongue. Amicalement, Alex? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:45:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: >On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been moreso if it included the >poetry of those on the receiving end. >> >> >> Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during World War II, which, as I have been told, was a fairly brutal war that involved a lot of countries.? I'm sure there's plenty of witness from German victims as well as from Londoners who went through the Blitz.? History isn't always as nice and neat as we'd wish it to be.? Of course, in hindsight it may have been a nice gesture on the part of the RAF and the US 8th Air Force to have dropped, during several rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those German cities (after all, sugar was severely rationed).? I'm sure that, as soon as they realized the benevolence of the intent, that the German 88 crews wouldn't have fired back and would instead have rushed out with their tongues outstretched to the skies.? Probably they would have surrendered in, say, 1943.? http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 2 19:30:36 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:30:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: In a message dated 9/2/2010 5:58:17 PM Central Daylight Time, pmetres at jcu.edu writes: > > I know you're kidding, Sam, no one doubts the evils of the Nazi regime. > And indeed every book has its place, and does its work. But I guess I stand > with Mark in that, for far too long, the "war story" and "war poem" have > been the province of the soldiers, or told in the frame of the > soldier...when in the last century, casualties of war were increasingly civilians (some > statistics say up to 90%). The idea that we can tell a certain version of > the story of war without including that 90% seems amazing to me. It's the > literary equivalent of telling the story of the Napoleonic wars by > following Napoleon alone. Tolstoy had something to say about that. > > Philip Metres I agree, Philip, but I do get a little riled when every WWII narrative that comes up gets met with, "Yes, but think about the innocent victims." Well, of course we think about them, especially those whom the Nazis exterminated, for we've heard their stories all our lives, all the way back to Shirer, which hit me with a thunderbolt when I was about 12 years old and mostly unaware. So, yes, I am sympathetic to those on the ground who were mostly innocent but suffered nonetheless. But they were people who lived in a country that they had allowed (with a large measure of public support) to have been taken over by brutal, racist thugs. Unfortunately, total war is indiscriminate as far as regarding the moral qualities of those who get caught up in it. By the way, John Hershey's Hiroshima was required junior-high reading c. 1960. None of us who read it had any illusions left about what total war meant, and that great book surely enlisted our sympathy for those who got caught up in an historical disaster. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 19:53:58 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:53:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <1988fd.dd7b0a9.39b18574@cs.com> References: <1988fd.dd7b0a9.39b18574@cs.com> Message-ID: I may be dealing with willed illiteracy here. If you want to argue with what I've written, read my words more carefully. At 06:55 PM 9/2/2010, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/2/2010 5:37:21 PM Central >Daylight Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: >> >>I read the article, but I'm also reading a >>diary of the air raids on Berrlin, from the >>ground-level perspective. I'm not criticizing >>what genuinely sounds like an interesting book, >>just noting that there's another side to be dealt with. > >In this war, that was not "another side"; it was >the "other side." We may not be perfect on our >side, but the other side was the one that >exterminated 6,000,000 people ("another side"?) >that they didn't like. This is in addition to >the other millions ("collateral damage"?) that >they also killed. Lots of civilians got killed >on both "this side" and "another >side." Hiroshima? Yes. Nagasaki? Yes. Try >Nanking. Try Buchenwald. Try Auschwitz. It >was bad. A lot of it was evil. Most of it was >evil. And it couldn't have been otherwise, given the historical circumstances. > >Nicholson Baker's Human Smoke is a beautiful pipe-dream of a book. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 19:51:39 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:51:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> References: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> Message-ID: Whether or not there should have been carpet bombing (most military historians think they were counterproductive) instead of, say, destroying the rail connections to concentration camps is beside the point of what I was saying, which is that a book about the poetry that came out of the air war would be enriched by including the poetry about the air war written by those in the cities being bombed. Why should that be controversial? At 06:45 PM 9/2/2010, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central >Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: >> >>On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss >><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >>>Sounds like an interesting book. Would have >>>been moreso if it included the poetry of those on the receiving end. >>> >> > >Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during >World War II, which, as I have been told, was a >fairly brutal war that involved a lot of >countries. I'm sure there's plenty of witness >from German victims as well as from Londoners >who went through the Blitz. History isn't >always as nice and neat as we'd wish it to >be. Of course, in hindsight it may have been a >nice gesture on the part of the RAF and the US >8th Air Force to have dropped, during several >rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those >German cities (after all, sugar was severely >rationed). I'm sure that, as soon as they >realized the benevolence of the intent, that the >German 88 crews wouldn't have fired back and >would instead have rushed out with their tongues >outstretched to the skies. Probably they would >have surrendered in, say, 1943. > >http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 2 20:17:51 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 20:17:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <164918.658a7c6f.39b198af@cs.com> In a message dated 9/2/2010 6:58:33 PM Central Daylight Time, junction at earthlink.net writes: > Whether or not there should have been carpet bombing (most military > historians think they were counterproductive) instead of, say, destroying the > rail connections to concentration camps is beside the point of what I was > saying, which is that a book about the poetry that came out of the air war > would be enriched by including the poetry about the air war written by those > in the cities being bombed. Why should that be controversial? It's not controversial at all. The only poems I know that emerged from the 8th Air Force were by Randall Jarrell, who spent the war stateside as an instructor; I don't know any from the RAF except "High Flight," which used to be the sign-off for tv stations during the Reagan years. Maybe the air crews who bombed Germany had no poets among them, or maybe the poets that were were killed. There's a movie called "The Memphis Belle" that has one of the bombardiers reciting poetry--unfortunately he's cribbed it from Yeats. So where, after all these years, is the poetry of those upon whom the bombs fell? The best I can offer is a great film called Hope and Glory. Were all the poets killed by the bombs, or were there no poets to be killed? Who knows? Obviously, Guernica and Hiroshima survive as artistic testaments, but where is the rest? This guy mentions Dickey's "The Fire-Bombing," which is apt. But where is the rest of it? "Carpet-bombing," by the way, is a contemporay term that refers to spread-out anti-personnel bombing against scattered military ground forces. It is tactical, not strategic. Strategid "saturation bombing," done by night against cities, is probably what you're looking for. The Brits practiced saturation bombing against German cities; the American 8th Air Force practiced "precision bombing" against known military targets, though the "precision" was highly overrated. Of course, they dropped their bombs by daylight, with uncertain guidance, while being shot at by ground fire and the Luftwaffe, so give them a break if they missed occasionally. And it would have been a major intelligcence coup if anyone had known about "the rail connections to concentration camps"! Who even knew, at the time, where the actual camps were located? James Bond? C'mon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres at jcu.edu Thu Sep 2 20:25:36 2010 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 20:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100902202536.DQK54924@mirapoint.jcu.edu> To turn the subject to poetry, what did people think of Tony Barnstone's book, Tongue of War, which tries this amazing feat of putting sundry voices of the war in the pacific (ww2) into sonnets? Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:30:36 EDT >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing >To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > > In a message dated 9/2/2010 5:58:17 PM Central > Daylight Time, pmetres at jcu.edu writes: > > I know you're kidding, Sam, no one doubts the > evils of the Nazi regime. And indeed every book > has its place, and does its work. But I guess I > stand with Mark in that, for far too long, the > "war story" and "war poem" have been the province > of the soldiers, or told in the frame of the > soldier...when in the last century, casualties of > war were increasingly civilians (some statistics > say up to 90%). The idea that we can tell a > certain version of the story of war without > including that 90% seems amazing to me. It's the > literary equivalent of telling the story of the > Napoleonic wars by following Napoleon alone. > Tolstoy had something to say about that. > > Philip Metres > > I agree, Philip, but I do get a little riled when > every WWII narrative that comes up gets met with, > "Yes, but think about the innocent victims." Well, > of course we think about them, especially those whom > the Nazis exterminated, for we've heard their > stories all our lives, all the way back to Shirer, > which hit me with a thunderbolt when I was about 12 > years old and mostly unaware. So, yes, I am > sympathetic to those on the ground who were mostly > innocent but suffered nonetheless. But they were > people who lived in a country that they had allowed > (with a large measure of public support) to have > been taken over by brutal, racist thugs. > Unfortunately, total war is indiscriminate as far as > regarding the moral qualities of those who get > caught up in it. > > By the way, John Hershey's Hiroshima was required > junior-high reading c. 1960. None of us who read it > had any illusions left about what total war meant, > and that great book surely enlisted our sympathy for > those who got caught up in an historical disaster. >________________ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 20:44:42 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 17:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <20100902185513.DQK46508@mirapoint.jcu.edu> References: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> <20100902185513.DQK46508@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <114685.43496.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I too am an ever-so-sensitive contemporary man. In fact, I can no longer even read books unless there are chapters devoted to the heartless killing of the poor, innocent trees. Oh weep! ________________________________ From: Philip Metres To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 6:55:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing I know you're kidding, Sam, no one doubts the evils of the Nazi regime. And indeed every book has its place, and does its work. But I guess I stand with Mark in that, for far too long, the "war story" and "war poem" have been the province of the soldiers, or told in the frame of the soldier...when in the last century, casualties of war were increasingly civilians (some statistics say up to 90%). The idea that we can tell a certain version of the story of war without including that 90% seems amazing to me. It's the literary equivalent of telling the story of the Napoleonic wars by following Napoleon alone. Tolstoy had something to say about that. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:45:00 EDT >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing >To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > > In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central > Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > > Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been > moreso if it included the poetry of those on the > receiving end. > > Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during World > War II, which, as I have been told, was a fairly > brutal war that involved a lot of countries. I'm > sure there's plenty of witness from German victims > as well as from Londoners who went through the > Blitz. History isn't always as nice and neat as > we'd wish it to be. Of course, in hindsight it may > have been a nice gesture on the part of the RAF and > the US 8th Air Force to have dropped, during several > rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those > German cities (after all, sugar was severely > rationed). I'm sure that, as soon as they realized > the benevolence of the intent, that the German 88 > crews wouldn't have fired back and would instead > have rushed out with their tongues outstretched to > the skies. Probably they would have surrendered in, > say, 1943. > > http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 >________________ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 20:44:42 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 17:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <20100902185513.DQK46508@mirapoint.jcu.edu> References: <198005.51ed4828.39b182ec@cs.com> <20100902185513.DQK46508@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <114685.43496.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I too am an ever-so-sensitive contemporary man. In fact, I can no longer even read books unless there are chapters devoted to the heartless killing of the poor, innocent trees. Oh weep! ________________________________ From: Philip Metres To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 6:55:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing I know you're kidding, Sam, no one doubts the evils of the Nazi regime. And indeed every book has its place, and does its work. But I guess I stand with Mark in that, for far too long, the "war story" and "war poem" have been the province of the soldiers, or told in the frame of the soldier...when in the last century, casualties of war were increasingly civilians (some statistics say up to 90%). The idea that we can tell a certain version of the story of war without including that 90% seems amazing to me. It's the literary equivalent of telling the story of the Napoleonic wars by following Napoleon alone. Tolstoy had something to say about that. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:45:00 EDT >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing >To: new-poetry at charlemagne.cddc.vt.edu > > In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:52:28 PM Central > Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at gmail.com writes: > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Weiss > wrote: > > Sounds like an interesting book. Would have been > moreso if it included the poetry of those on the > receiving end. > > Yes, Mark, it would have, but this was during World > War II, which, as I have been told, was a fairly > brutal war that involved a lot of countries. I'm > sure there's plenty of witness from German victims > as well as from Londoners who went through the > Blitz. History isn't always as nice and neat as > we'd wish it to be. Of course, in hindsight it may > have been a nice gesture on the part of the RAF and > the US 8th Air Force to have dropped, during several > rounds of early missions, marshmallows on those > German cities (after all, sugar was severely > rationed). I'm sure that, as soon as they realized > the benevolence of the intent, that the German 88 > crews wouldn't have fired back and would instead > have rushed out with their tongues outstretched to > the skies. Probably they would have surrendered in, > say, 1943. > > http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364 >________________ >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 23:56:03 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 05:56:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry exists In-Reply-To: References: <8CD173A3ACFA283-EAC-5DB1@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> <4C7F7418.3090500@comcast.net> <8CD18C895A91D01-2044-F4B@webmail-m022.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'll let Hal and James Cervantes take care of that one, they pot up there among the Seraphs. On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 12:01 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > Anny - you can give me a reputation to rival Auden's? > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> If I could wish one thing in the world, it would be for world peace, a >> reputation to rival Auden's, and that Fieralingue would be more navigable. I >> was looking for your quotations site a couple of days ago, Anny, and >> couldn't find it. >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Anny Ballardini < >> anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you, I put it online with the other quotations under Why Poetry >>> Exists: >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 >>> >>> Best wishes, Anny >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Skip Fox wrote: >>> >>>> Soorry, just being a smart ass. The last two paragraphs seemed tied to a >>>> run away hot-air balloon. Mary Poppins may well have been a better choice. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm missing the Sarah Palin-ocity and Glenn Beckishness here... >>>>> >>>>> c >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Skip Fox wrote: >>>>> > yikes (The gustatory meets The Sorcerer's Apprentice meets Sarah >>>>> Palin & >>>>> > Glenn Beck!) >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> When I write a poem, I process experience. I take what?s inside me ? >>>>> the >>>>> >> raw, chaotic material of feeling or memory ? and translate it into >>>>> words and >>>>> >> then shape those words into the rhythmical language we call a poem. >>>>> This >>>>> >> process brings me a kind of wild joy. Before I was powerless and >>>>> passive in >>>>> >> the face of my confusion, but now I am active: the powerful shaper >>>>> of my >>>>> >> experience. I am transforming it into a lucid meaning. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Because poems are meanings, even the saddest poem I write is proof >>>>> that I >>>>> >> want to survive. And therefore it represents an affirmation of life >>>>> in all >>>>> >> its complexities and contradictions. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> An additional miracle comes to me as the maker of poems: Because >>>>> poems can >>>>> >> be shared between poet and audience, they also become a further >>>>> triumph over >>>>> >> human isolation. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Gregory Orr, from "The Making of Poems" (This I Believe series on >>>>> NPR) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://thisibelieve.org/essay/21249/ >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anny Ballardini >>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >>> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >>> star! >>> Friedrich Nietzsche >>> >>> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >>> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >>> Giovenale >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri Sep 3 00:40:46 2010 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 21:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <104685.54118.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Simon Perchik, who is still living, bombed Dresden and other German cities in WW II. We published the Collected books in 2001. The poems are not linear / narrative but the experience, connection and references are there. > The only poems I know that emerged from the > 8th Air Force were by Randall Jarrell, who spent the war > stateside as an instructor; I don't know any from the RAF except "High > Flight," which used to be the sign-off for tv stations during the Reagan > years. Maybe the air crews who bombed Germany had no poets among them Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Sep 3 01:01:46 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 00:01:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <104685.54118.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <104685.54118.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5C78ED-0BEC-4195-9D79-90F3F02A6778@ripon.edu> Richard Hugo was a bombadier. I believe he bombed Belgrade when Charles Simic was there as a boy. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 2, 2010, at 11:40 PM, David Baratier wrote: > Simon Perchik, who is still living, bombed Dresden and other German cities in WW II. We published the Collected books in 2001. The poems are not linear / narrative but the experience, connection and references are there. > > >> The only poems I know that emerged from the >> 8th Air Force were by Randall Jarrell, who spent the war >> stateside as an instructor; I don't know any from the RAF except "High >> Flight," which used to be the sign-off for tv stations during the Reagan >> years. Maybe the air crews who bombed Germany had no poets among them > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Sep 3 09:52:27 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:52:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing Message-ID: <698b4.33c59a6c.39b2579b@cs.com> In a message dated 9/3/2010 3:58:41 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > Richard Hugo was a bombadier. I believe he bombed Belgrade when Charles > Simic was there as a boy. > John Ciardi served on a B-29 and wrote a memoir called Saipan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 12:56:53 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: Sonia Sanchez at HOWL Festival Monday Sept 6 4pm Message-ID: <160757.47756.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> SISTER SON/JI by Sonia Sanchez Monday, Sep 6 4 PM - 6 PM $10.00 Theatre 80 St. Marks, 80 St. Marks Place 212-388-0388 The Howl! Festival presents iconoclastic poet Sonia Sanchez & a production of her play ?Sister Son/ji.? Ms. Sanchez will be present for a rare audience talkback moderated by the artstic director of BeBop Theatre Collective, SC2. This event also celebrates the publication I?m Black When I?m Singing, I?m Blue When I Ain?t and Other Plays. Fans of Ms. Sanchez receive for the first time all of her plays which span five decades. Sonia Sanchez was quoted in Brian Lanker?s, I Dream A World: Portraits of Black Women Who Have Changed America that she writes ? To keep in contact with our ancestors and to spread truth to people.? And perhaps that is why she remains such an enduring and influential figure in the landscape of American literature. Fans of Ms. Sanchez receive for the first time all of her plays which span five decades. Nathaniel Siegel, Executive Director of The Howl Festival is ?ecstatic over Sonia Sanchez? generosity & commitment to Howl!. This event brings the history, political passion and multidisciplinary elements to Howl!. Ms. Sanchez has inspired many artists and this event also includes poetry tributes curated by slam poet and spoken word pioneer Regie Cabico as well as a dance performance.by Genesis Dance Company. In Sister Son/Ji, written by Sonia Sanchez, directed by SC2 and starring Jacqueline Gregg, poet/playwright Sanchez unflinchingly examines the paradoxical notions of liberation within in the Black Power Movement. Sonia Sanchez is a Poet. Mother. Professor. National and International lecturer on Black Culture and Literature, Women?s Liberation, Peace and Racial Justice, as well as an author of over 16 books. This solo play stars Jacqueline Gregg, who has performed in countless plays, both classical and modern, also works extensively with various educational theatre organizations, bringing classical as well as contemporary theatre to schools in and around New York City. Door proceeds to benefit the Actors Fund for HOWL! HELP. Advance Tickets: $10.00 tickets go to http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/124400 Tickets at the door 1 hour before showtime on the day of the show (cash only). -- ********* Esque, A New Magazine + http://esquemag.com Nepotism? + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 16:52:33 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 15:52:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad Richards Message-ID: Sorry to use the list for this, but am unable to reach The Old Mole via his e-mail address: : host 192.168.31.204[192.168.31.204] said: 550 User quota exceeded (in reply to RCPT TO command) Final-Recipient: rfc822; opus40-01 at opus40.org Original-Recipient: rfc822;Opus40-01 at opus40.org Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: dns; 192.168.31.204 Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 User quota exceeded Another e-mail address Tad? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 3 19:46:31 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:46:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kermode and memory for poetry Message-ID: <8CD19D95E5D40F9-1818-6B21@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/7966242/A-memory-for-poetry.html A memory for poetry In a piece published in the Telegraph on January 26 1974, Frank Kermode considers his love of poets and poetry By Frank Kermode Published: 5:15PM BST 27 Aug 2010 Comment It is impossible to be in love with a poet, and any way of describing the attachment which avoids a reference to love for a person is probably misleading. To be in love with a person implies power to confer privilege, to grant him or her a uniqueness, a self or a property as Shakespeare might have said, denied all others, and this in any case makes him like a poem ? full of special and enchanting meanings that only you can sense, though you may wonder why others cannot. Or rather, like a corpus of poems, all different, yet all bearing some secret sign, inter-related in some way that you alone grasp, though perhaps not even you can explain. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 3 20:14:27 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:14:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In-Reply-To: <698b4.33c59a6c.39b2579b@cs.com> References: <698b4.33c59a6c.39b2579b@cs.com> Message-ID: <8CD19DD45C2141E-1818-6E96@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> Howard Nemerov (US) served with the RAF... http://www.powells.com/biblio/7-9780226572437-0 -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 9:52 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more poetry and bombing In a message dated 9/3/2010 3:58:41 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Richard Hugo was a bombadier. I believe he bombed Belgrade when Charles Simic was there as a boy. John Ciardi served on a B-29 and wrote a memoir called Saipan. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 14:22:33 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:22:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter Message-ID: Dark Matter Missing mass is no laughing matter, rasped the brown dwarf priest. Weak interactions suggest discrepancies such as black holes that hang out on the outskirts of town, where scientists like school- boys playing hooky toss theories back and forth. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 14:41:30 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:41:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "toss," perhaps, being the operative word, as they say. (I.e., it contains DNA.) On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Dark Matter > > Missing mass is no laughing matter, > rasped the brown dwarf priest. > Weak interactions > suggest discrepancies > > such as black holes that hang out > on the outskirts of town, > where scientists like school- > boys playing hooky > > toss theories back > and forth. > > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 14:53:42 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 20:53:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with Skip, high closing twist. On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > "toss," perhaps, being the operative word, as they say. (I.e., it contains > DNA.) > > > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Dark Matter >> >> Missing mass is no laughing matter, >> rasped the brown dwarf priest. >> Weak interactions >> suggest discrepancies >> >> such as black holes that hang out >> on the outskirts of town, >> where scientists like school- >> boys playing hooky >> >> toss theories back >> and forth. >> >> >> Hal Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> *Obras P?blicas* >> * >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >> * >> * >> * >> *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other Sonnets* >> >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >> >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >> >> *Tango Bouquet* >> >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >> >> >> *Theory of Harmony* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >> * >> *Rapsodie espagnole* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf >> * >> >> *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* >> * >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 >> * >> * >> * >> *The >> Sonnet Project* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf >> * >> * >> * >> * >> G(e)nome* >> *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* >> * >> * >> *Winter Journey* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html >> * >> * >> *Eclipse* >> *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* >> * >> * >> *The Dance of the Red Swan* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html >> >> *Transparencies & Projections* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html >> * >> * >> * >> * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 00:05:52 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:05:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your friend DidiMenendez just published something In-Reply-To: <20100903234319.7C3BB430329@mail1.issuumail.com> References: <20100903234319.7C3BB430329@mail1.issuumail.com> Message-ID: DidiMenendez just uploaded this interesting publication. [image: Open publication] Poets and Artists (October 2010) Featuring Sara Zin, June Stratton, Rosemary, Dunn Moeller, Erin Gergen Halls, Paul Hostovsky, Jua... Open publication Don't forget to bookmark this publication to share it with your other friends. About bookmarks Whenever you bookmark something, it will show up in the Sections of your friends and people who have added you to their Follow-list. It's a great way of sharing interesting publications, so bookmark as often as you can. View Bookmarks Change email settings You can easily change what emails to receive here . ------------------------------ Issuu is the place for online publications: Magazines, catalogs, documents, and stuff you'd normally find on print. It's the place where you become the publisher: Upload a document, it's fast, easy, and totally free. Find and comment on thousands of great publications. Join a living library, where anyone finds publications about anything and share them with friends. Explore / My Library / Upload / Settings / FAQ / Terms / Copyright FAQ Copyright ? Issuu Inc. 2010. All rights reserved. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 06:05:26 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 03:05:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, Hal. On this day in History, as reported in Encyclopaedia Britannica Library, "evidence (was) provided for black hole theory. At a scientific conference in Washington, D.C., this day in 2001, scientists described an observation of energy flares that provided strong evidence of the theorized black hole at the centre of the Milky Way ...." Are we not headed for the black hole after all? Regards. Obododimma. On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Dark Matter > > Missing mass is no laughing matter, > rasped the brown dwarf priest. > Weak interactions > suggest discrepancies > > such as black holes that hang out > on the outskirts of town, > where scientists like school- > boys playing hooky > > toss theories back > and forth. > > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 06:18:38 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 03:18:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *In the Brightness of Dark Matter* (for Hal) Which dark holes But the myth of knowing beyond? The dark hole where we come from, brandishing voices The dark hole where we are headed, voiceless Too spent to remember any theory The mission only to understand, to separate Einsteins >From awesome beginnings Dark holes of burning highways --- *Obododimma Oha* On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Dark Matter > > Missing mass is no laughing matter, > rasped the brown dwarf priest. > Weak interactions > suggest discrepancies > > such as black holes that hang out > on the outskirts of town, > where scientists like school- > boys playing hooky > > toss theories back > and forth. > > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 06:20:30 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 03:20:30 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > *In the Brightness of Dark Matter* > (for Hal) > > Which dark holes > But the myth of knowing beyond? > > The dark hole where we come from, brandishing voices > The dark hole where we are headed, voiceless > Too spent to remember any theory > The mission only to understand, to separate Einsteins > From awesome beginnings > > Dark holes of burning skyways > > --- *Obododimma Oha* > > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Dark Matter >> >> Missing mass is no laughing matter, >> rasped the brown dwarf priest. >> Weak interactions >> suggest discrepancies >> >> such as black holes that hang out >> on the outskirts of town, >> where scientists like school- >> boys playing hooky >> >> toss theories back >> and forth. >> >> >> Hal Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> *Obras P?blicas* >> * >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >> * >> * >> * >> *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other Sonnets* >> >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >> >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >> >> *Tango Bouquet* >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >> >> >> >> *Theory of Harmony* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >> * >> *Rapsodie espagnole* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf >> * >> >> *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* >> * >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 >> * >> * >> * >> *The >> Sonnet Project* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf >> * >> * >> * >> * >> G(e)nome* >> *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* >> * >> * >> *Winter Journey* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html >> * >> * >> *Eclipse* >> *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* >> * >> * >> *The Dance of the Red Swan* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html >> >> *Transparencies & Projections* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html >> * >> * >> * >> * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 09:14:40 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 08:14:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We probably are, Obododimma--not in any great hurry though. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > Yes, Hal. On this day in History, as reported in Encyclopaedia Britannica > Library, "evidence (was) provided for black hole theory. At a scientific > conference in Washington, D.C., this day in 2001, scientists described an > observation of energy flares that provided strong evidence of the theorized > black hole at the centre of the Milky Way ...." > > Are we not headed for the black hole after all? > > Regards. > Obododimma. > > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Dark Matter >> >> Missing mass is no laughing matter, >> rasped the brown dwarf priest. >> Weak interactions >> suggest discrepancies >> >> such as black holes that hang out >> on the outskirts of town, >> where scientists like school- >> boys playing hooky >> >> toss theories back >> and forth. >> >> >> Hal Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> *Obras P?blicas* >> * >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >> * >> * >> * >> *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other Sonnets* >> >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >> >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >> >> *Tango Bouquet* >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >> >> >> >> *Theory of Harmony* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >> * >> *Rapsodie espagnole* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf >> * >> >> *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* >> * >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 >> * >> * >> * >> *The >> Sonnet Project* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf >> * >> * >> * >> * >> G(e)nome* >> *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* >> * >> * >> *Winter Journey* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html >> * >> * >> *Eclipse* >> *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* >> * >> * >> *The Dance of the Red Swan* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html >> >> *Transparencies & Projections* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html >> * >> * >> * >> * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 09:59:07 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 08:59:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm honored, sir. Many thanks. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > *In the Brightness of Dark Matter* > (for Hal) > > Which dark holes > But the myth of knowing beyond? > > The dark hole where we come from, brandishing voices > The dark hole where we are headed, voiceless > Too spent to remember any theory > The mission only to understand, to separate Einsteins > From awesome beginnings > > Dark holes of burning highways > > --- *Obododimma Oha* > > > On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Dark Matter >> >> Missing mass is no laughing matter, >> rasped the brown dwarf priest. >> Weak interactions >> suggest discrepancies >> >> such as black holes that hang out >> on the outskirts of town, >> where scientists like school- >> boys playing hooky >> >> toss theories back >> and forth. >> >> >> Hal Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> *Obras P?blicas* >> * >> https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas >> * >> * >> * >> *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and >> Other Sonnets* >> >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets >> >> *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 >> >> *Tango Bouquet* >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en >> >> >> >> *Theory of Harmony* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf >> * >> *Rapsodie espagnole* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf >> * >> >> *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* >> * >> http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 >> * >> * >> * >> *The >> Sonnet Project* >> * >> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf >> * >> * >> * >> * >> G(e)nome* >> *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* >> * >> * >> *Winter Journey* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html >> * >> * >> *Eclipse* >> *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* >> * >> * >> *The Dance of the Red Swan* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html >> >> *Transparencies & Projections* >> http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html >> * >> * >> * >> * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 01:06:06 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 22:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <101069.30678.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> O I dig this; --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Obododimma Oha wrote: From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dark Matter To: "NewPoetry List" Received: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 6:20 AM In the Brightness of Dark Matter(for Hal) Which dark holes?But the myth of knowing beyond? The dark hole where we come from, brandishing voices The dark hole where we are headed, voicelessToo spent to remember any theoryThe mission only to understand, to separate Einsteins?From awesome beginnings Dark holes of burning skyways --- Obododimma Oha On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: Dark Matter Missing mass is no laughing matter, rasped the brown dwarf priest. Weak interactions suggest discrepancies such as black holes that hang out on the outskirts of town, where scientists like school- boys playing hooky toss theories back and forth.y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 6 20:21:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:21:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Message-ID: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry would let Robert Hass get raked over in a review... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Sep 6 21:12:19 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:12:19 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing his arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... c On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry > would let > Robert Hass get raked over?in a review... > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > > by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 7 07:27:21 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 06:27:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C862199.4070806@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why > Poetry would let > Robert Hass get raked over in a review... > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > Unlike many much better poets, he at least is considered worthy of discussion at /Poetry/. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 08:43:41 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:43:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Battle of the Blands. John Denver takes on Tiny Tim. Billy Collins slams Ella Wheeler Wilcox. I can't watch. On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:21 PM, wrote: > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry > would let > Robert Hass get raked over in a review... > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > > by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 7 09:32:06 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <572428.42127.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hm, somehow I just can't imagine Tiny Tim as "bland". Otherwise, agreed. Amicalement, Alex ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: Skip Fox To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 2:43:41 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Battle of the Blands. John Denver takes on Tiny Tim. Billy Collins slams Ella Wheeler Wilcox. I can't watch. On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:21 PM, wrote: I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry would let >Robert Hass get raked over?in a review...? >http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > >by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > >http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > >http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 09:48:50 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 08:48:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <572428.42127.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> <572428.42127.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was reaching. My pop culture knowledge has always been poor. On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Hm, somehow I just can't imagine Tiny Tim as "bland". Otherwise, agreed. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Skip Fox > *To:* NewPoetry List > *Sent:* Tue, September 7, 2010 2:43:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass > > Battle of the Blands. John Denver takes on Tiny Tim. Billy Collins slams > Ella Wheeler Wilcox. I can't watch. > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:21 PM, wrote: > >> I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry >> would let >> Robert Hass get raked over in a review... >> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 >> >> by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins >> >> http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:13:54 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 21:13:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Subject:* This is Not a Place to Sing Dear Friends, I posted a blog about Christina Pacosz's classic book of poems about Poland, *This is Not a Place to Sing. *The blog contains a number of poems from the collection including: - The Wind at the Wedding - Auschwitz: *Oswiecim* - On the Propensity of the Human Species to Repeat Error - Message from the Past to the Present http://writingpolishdiaspora.blogspot.com/2010/09/this-is-not-place-to-sing.html Please stop by and take a look. Thanks. John -- Dr. John Z. Guzlowski Professor Emeritus Eastern Illinois University Hear Garrison Keillor read my poem "What My Father Believed" http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/programs/2007/12/24/#friday My Blog About My Parents and Their Experiences in Nazi Germany http://lightning-and-ashes.blogspot.com/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 7 20:12:31 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:12:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C86D4EF.2050409@nut-n-but.net> A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and Caws and run out of things to say about them. Anybody know of any good writing about any of their poetry criticism? --Bob From seamascain at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 13:27:41 2010 From: seamascain at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?=) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ... reality-particles; sounds & images Message-ID: _______________ IMRAM, a national literary festival in Ireland, in association with the Dublin City Arts Centre, will present "tr?d an gcoill" by S?amas Cain and Slavek Kwi. This Installation with recorded or live performances will take place at 1:00 p.m. to 5:45 p.m. from September 23 through September 27, 2010 at the Grapevine Space of CITY ARTS, 15 Bachelor?s Walk, Dublin 1, Ireland. For additional information phone Nick Reilly at CITY ARTS, i.e., Phone (+353)(1)902.2414 ... http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/23/-trid-an-gcoill tr?d an gcoill "through the woods" A collection of reality-particles; sounds and images from Dromore Woods. An audiovisual installation, with recorded or live performances. tr?d an gcoill, a 120-page poem by S?amas Cain, is itself a poetic field recording. It evokes a walk through Dromore Woods in County Clare. It immerses the reader in a stream of words and word-clusters. The overall effect is hypnotic, as we are led by a piped piper into the heart of the wood. Czech sound-artist Slavek Kwi has created an audiovisual installation from underwater and field recordings captured in Dromore Woods itself, and fused these elements with S?amas Cain's chanted recital of tr?d an gcoill. This installation with performances will be open to the public in City Arts, with Free Admission. tr?d an gcoill creates a unique space in which one can experience nature and language through sounds and visions of uncanny beauty. S?amas Cain is an Irish-American experimental poet, a friend and colleague of Jean Genet and Allen Ginsberg. One of the most radical voices in modern literature he writes in Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Old Celtic, Spanish and English. For additional information, go to ... http://seamascain-writernetwork.org Slavek Kwi is a Czech sound-artist, composer and researcher. From the early nineties he has operated under the name "Artificial Memory Trace." For additional information, go to ... http://www.artificialmemorytrace.com Seamus Johnson described Cain's recorded chantings of tr?d an gcoill for this Installation as "incantatory, rhythmic, passionate, guttural, mezmerizing. Cain is the baritone ascending to Apollo. Or, is he the baritone ascending Mt. Carmel? He does tend to get carried away in performance, lost in a kind of trance, at times in the passion of the moment whacking the microphones. Indeed, Cain's performance is hypnotic! Plenty of auditory images! And plenty of rich and diverse sounds to be chopped up for computer-randomization!" Slavek Kwi used chance operations to distribute the fragments of Cain's chantings in various speakers of a vertical Speaker Tree, which doesn't brake the continuous chanting, but changes the architecture as texture and dynamics. Also, Kwi used chance operations on the distribution in speakers of the timbre of Cain's chantings. Kwi's Installation includes a color film, with parts of the text of the tr?d an gcoill poem superimposed in scrolling effect over images from Dromore Woods, a slide-show with 1,500 slides, an environmental soundtrack on external 5.1 system and also a Voice Tower, all edited using chance operations. Kwi's Installation also includes physical objects from Dromore Woods. For additional information, go to ... http://www.cityarts.ie/events/2010/09/23/-trid-an-gcoill http://www.artificialmemorytrace.com http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain/liamcarsonsreview.htm http://www.freewebs.com/seamascain/questionsanswers.htm http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://www.saorsainn.net _______________ From orpheecd at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 14:31:55 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <4C86D4EF.2050409@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <826986.18675.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> this is hilarious .? How on earth does one respond to such a request.? Okay, well off hand, I'd suggest reading Perloff's book about O'Hara and consider her statements about O'Hara's syntax. Cheers --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Bob Grumman wrote: From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: This is Not a Place to Sing To: "NewPoetry List" Received: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:12 PM A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and Caws and run out of things to say about them.? Anybody know of any good writing about any of their poetry criticism? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 8 14:50:29 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:50:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <826986.18675.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical essay and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read for a few years and see what happens. . . . That's different from writing poetry, in my opinion. When you run out of things to say you should keep writing. That's when it gets most interesting. On 9/8/10 1:31 PM, "orphee" wrote: > this is hilarious . How on earth does one respond to such a request. Okay, > well off hand, I'd suggest reading Perloff's book about O'Hara and consider > her statements about O'Hara's syntax. > Cheers > > --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> From: Bob Grumman >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Fw: This is Not a Place to Sing >> To: "NewPoetry List" >> Received: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:12 PM >> >> A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and >> Caws and run out of things to say about them. Anybody know of any good >> writing about any of their poetry criticism? >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 8 17:26:51 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:26:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical > essay and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read > for a few years and see what happens. . . . Or he could ask for help and maybe get an intelligent comment that gets him going. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 8 21:17:57 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:17:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD1DD3F856FF97-17EC-538C@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> It's amusing that Robbins criticizes Hass for 'jumping the shark' when his poetry (by those New Yorker examples) is just a string of shark jumping in bad f/x. The other thing that was immediately off-putting about Robbins review was his contention that there is no 'natural world' to write about. He needs to get out more, as the expression goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2010 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing is arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... c On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry would let Robert Hass get raked over in a review... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 8 21:34:10 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:34:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD1DD63A900768-17EC-5848@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> Go to a good library collecting contemporary critical books (select copyrights post 1990), flip to the index for Vendler, Perloff and Caws; and he'll get plenty of fodder for how other critics have reacted to their criticism. A good index is a beautiful thing. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing David Graham wrote: Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical essay and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read for a few years and see what happens. . . . Or he could ask for help and maybe get an intelligent comment that gets him going. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 8 22:01:36 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:01:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What does it accomplish? Message-ID: <8CD1DDA11836E58-17EC-5EBC@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/07/poetry-hoagland_n_705316.html Here are two well-known descriptions of what a poem is, and does, one by Wordsworth, one by Stevens: type a: Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings; it takes its origin from emotion recollected in tranquility. type b: The poem must resist the intelligence / Almost successfully. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 8 20:17:56 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:17:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> Well, sorry, but the original query just reminded me of those emails I get occasionally from high school students who have stumbled across my web site: "Help!--I need an interpretation of T. S. Eliot by tomorrow for my English class!" To which I always feel like replying, "Do your own damn homework, kid!" Or, if I'm in a better mood, I might point out that asking an intelligent & focused question is one good way to provoke an intelligent answer. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 8, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > David Graham wrote: >> >> Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical essay and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read for a few years and see what happens. . . . > Or he could ask for help and maybe get an intelligent comment that gets him going. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and Caws and run out of things to say about them. Anybody know of any good writing about any of their poetry criticism? --Bob _______________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 9 07:08:33 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:08:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> <2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4C88C031.80608@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > Well, sorry, but the original query just reminded me of those emails I > get occasionally from high school students who have stumbled across my > web site: "Help!--I need an interpretation of T. S. Eliot by tomorrow > for my English class!" > > To which I always feel like replying, "Do your own damn homework, kid!" > > Or, if I'm in a better mood, I might point out that asking an > intelligent & focused question is one good way to provoke an > intelligent answer. Right. But you should know me well enough by now, David, to know I'm too lazy sometimes to ask intelligent focused questions. I tend--too often, I admit--to dump thoughts on New-Poetry without thinking them through. I don't apologize, because I'm not sure that's wrong. But I shouldn't get upset when someone replies in kind. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 9 07:13:20 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:13:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <8CD1DD63A900768-17EC-5848@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> <8CD1DD63A900768-17EC-5848@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C88C150.5020504@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Go to a good library collecting contemporary critical books > (select copyrights post 1990), > flip to the index for Vendler, Perloff and Caws; > and he'll get plenty of fodder for how other critics have reacted to > their criticism. > A good index is a beautiful thing. > Finnegan Well, as I should have said, he (and I) were hoping for references to essays or books, especially books, if any, that someone had read and thought worthwhile. I like your idea of of a good library collecting critical books, though. Are there really such things? Down here in the boonies, there are even good libraries collecting books that critical books would be about. There may be one or two books by Vendler in our country libraries, but nothing by the other two. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 9 07:34:22 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:34:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <4C88C150.5020504@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net><8CD1DD63A900768-17EC-5848@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> <4C88C150.5020504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C88C63E.2010507@nut-n-but.net> >> A good index is a beautiful thing. >> Finnegan Only if what's indexed has been intelligently classified, as poetry has not yet visibly been. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 12:35:41 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:35:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 9/11 in pictures & words Message-ID: Here again, some images and words related to 9/11 and NYC. 9/11+4 in pictures 9/11+ in words Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 13:50:00 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:50:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hal and 9/11 Message-ID: Here again, some images and words related to 9/11 and NYC. 9/11+4 in pictures< http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home/lynda-and-hal/9-11-4> 9/11+ in words< http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home/lynda-and-hal/9-11-texts> Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 13:52:15 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:52:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?windows-1252?q?John_Tranter=92s_Poetic_Networks?= Message-ID: Please come to this, if you can, and please publicise it as widely as you can: Sydney event: John Tranter?s Poetic Networks: a symposium & book launch celebrating ?The Salt Companion to John Tranter? and the Sydney launch of ?Starlight: 150 Poems? on Wednesday 22 September 2010, 5:30 for 6pm; John Woolley Building A20; Science Road, the University of Sydney. Speakers: Kate Lilley, Philip Mead, John Tranter. Free event, open to all. Hosted by Australian Literature at the University of Sydney RSVP: robert.dixon at sydney.edu.au -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 13:58:28 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers Message-ID: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding publishing practices and numbers on Slate -- http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these queries. Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. Thanks much, Amy -- ********* Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Nepotism? + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 14:09:46 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 20:09:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mystery and Evidence Message-ID: But to understand a world view, or a philosophy or system of thought, it is not enough just to understand the propositions it contains. You also have to understand what is central and what is peripheral to the view. September 5, 2010, *5:30 pm* Mystery and Evidence By TIM CRANE -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Sep 9 14:15:49 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:15:49 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but the more salient point is the type of work each does. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: > Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding > publishing practices and numbers on Slate > -- http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers > > > Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these queries. > ?Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. > > Thanks much, > > Amy > > > > > > > -- > ********* > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > Nepotism? > + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From chris at chrislott.org Thu Sep 9 14:18:00 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:18:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And on that topic: do any statistics exist about overall publication numbers by gender, across the US publishing industry or for specific kinds of writing? It's hard to put context to the disparity when the underlying numbers with which the disparity is contrasted don't seem to be known. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples > should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because > that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of > the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but > the more salient point is the type of work each does. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> -- http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >> >> >> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these queries. >> ?Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ********* >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> Nepotism? >> + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 14:25:44 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I don't think anyone "picked" them - VIDA is responding to the buzz (and was stirring it) long before this dust up: Picoult queried via Twitter about the recent Franzen-frenzy, and then the mainstream venues got wind and paid attention. So VIDA is joining in the larger discussion of the numbers, rather than focusing on Franzen vs. Picoult. Of course, we can certainly look at how the genre numbers come out, as well as how the genres end up breaking down into categories that seem to be geared towards "gender-inclined" numbers. For example, Publishers Weekly's nonfiction "niche" called 'Lifestyle' removes seemingly-female subjects like Gardening, Health, Parenting, etc from the more general Nonfiction. And then the dubious title of 'Chick Lit' sometimes funnels literary fiction written by women away from Fiction, etc. Amy ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but the more salient point is the type of work each does. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: > Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding > publishing practices and numbers on Slate > -- >http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers > > > Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these queries. > Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. > > Thanks much, > > Amy > > > > > > > -- > ********* > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > Nepotism? > + >http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 13:50:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:50:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 9/11 in pictures & words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for the repeated message, I did not notice it on this list. On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Here again, some images and words > related to 9/11 and NYC. > > > 9/11+4 in pictures > 9/11+ in words > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 14:42:22 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:42:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amy: I completely missed the Franzen etc dust-up, have no idea what it is. Do you know a site that would clarify this? Perhaps the sites of the battle? Thanks, Mark At 02:25 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote: >I don't think anyone "picked" them - VIDA is responding to the buzz (and was >stirring it) long before this dust up: Picoult queried via Twitter about the >recent Franzen-frenzy, and then the mainstream venues got wind and paid >attention. So VIDA is joining in the larger >discussion of the numbers, rather >than focusing on Franzen vs. Picoult. > >Of course, we can certainly look at how the >genre numbers come out, as well as >how the genres end up breaking down into categories that seem to be geared >towards "gender-inclined" numbers. For example, >Publishers Weekly's nonfiction >"niche" called 'Lifestyle' removes seemingly-female subjects like Gardening, >Health, Parenting, etc from the more general >Nonfiction. And then the dubious >title of 'Chick Lit' sometimes funnels literary fiction written by women away >from Fiction, etc. > >Amy > > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Chris Lott >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:15:49 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > >It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples >should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because >that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of >the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but >the more salient point is the type of work each does. > >c > >On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: > > Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding > > publishing practices and numbers on Slate > > -- > >http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-tr > oubling-data-about-women-writers > > > > > > Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >queries. > > Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. > > > > Thanks much, > > > > Amy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ********* > > Now That's WAC > > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > > > Nepotism? > > + > >http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-ki > ngs-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > > > > > > > > Amy's Alias > > + http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 13:57:27 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:57:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net> <2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> Message-ID: You remind me of a Professor's comment after the exam session our University had last week: "I am sweeter towards girls, but when I examine a young man and notice he did not study I feel like kicking him off the chair, literally!" to which I answered: "For me it is the other way round, I would literally kick away those *ladies* full of moves and nothing in their heads." On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:17 AM, David Graham wrote: > Well, sorry, but the original query just reminded me of those emails I get > occasionally from high school students who have stumbled across my web site: > "Help!--I need an interpretation of T. S. Eliot by tomorrow for my English > class!" > > To which I always feel like replying, "Do your own damn homework, kid!" > > Or, if I'm in a better mood, I might point out that asking an intelligent & > focused question is one good way to provoke an intelligent answer. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > David Graham wrote: > > Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical essay > and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read for a few > years and see what happens. . . . > > Or he could ask for help and maybe get an intelligent comment that gets him > going. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > > A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and > Caws and run out of things to say about them. Anybody know of any good > writing about any of their poetry criticism? > > --Bob > _______________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 9 14:51:27 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:51:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: <4C88C150.5020504@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net><8CD1DD63A900768-17EC-5848@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> <4C88C150.5020504@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD1E6724E0DF6E-1E1C-1585@webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com> We have iconn.org site in Connecticut that lets you search various library catalogs. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:13 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing jforjames at aol.com wrote: Go to a good library collecting contemporary critical books (select copyrights post 1990), flip to the index for Vendler, Perloff and Caws; and he'll get plenty of fodder for how other critics have reacted to their criticism. A good index is a beautiful thing. Finnegan Well, as I should have said, he (and I) were hoping for references to essays or books, especially books, if any, that someone had read and thought worthwhile. I like your idea of of a good library collecting critical books, though. Are there really such things? Down here in the boonies, there are even good libraries collecting books that critical books would be about. There may be one or two books by Vendler in our country libraries, but nothing by the other two. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 14:45:28 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:45:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] blog note Message-ID: Jerry Rothenberg has posted three poems and a chunk of my afterword from my new book As Landscape (Chax Press) at http://poemsandpoetics.blogspot.com/2010/09/mark-weiss-3-poems-excerpt-from.html. Best, Mark New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Sep 9 14:52:18 2010 From: millb at aol.com (Millicent) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:52:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing In-Reply-To: References: <4C87FF9B.3070403@nut-n-but.net><2809FA28-8861-4BD4-9880-3FBBEE2F8951@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8CD1E6742E7A937-1C94-1587@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com> It's the ones who bring their papers to conference, saying, "tell me in ten minutes how to change it from a "D" to an 'A' " or they pour into the seat and ask me to "fix the mistakes" Friends, this is not math class. Millicent -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Not a Place to Sing You remind me of a Professor's comment after the exam session our University had last week: "I am sweeter towards girls, but when I examine a young man and notice he did not study I feel like kicking him off the chair, literally!" to which I answered: "For me it is the other way round, I would literally kick away those ladies full of moves and nothing in their heads." On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:17 AM, David Graham wrote: Well, sorry, but the original query just reminded me of those emails I get occasionally from high school students who have stumbled across my web site: "Help!--I need an interpretation of T. S. Eliot by tomorrow for my English class!" To which I always feel like replying, "Do your own damn homework, kid!" Or, if I'm in a better mood, I might point out that asking an intelligent & focused question is one good way to provoke an intelligent answer. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 8, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: David Graham wrote: Yeah. My first thought was that someone who is writing a critical essay and runs out of things to say should, well, stop writing! Read for a few years and see what happens. . . . Or he could ask for help and maybe get an intelligent comment that gets him going. --Bob _______________________________________________ A friend of mine who is writing an essay about critics Vendler, Perloff and Caws and run out of things to say about them. Anybody know of any good writing about any of their poetry criticism? --Bob _______________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 15:16:56 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:16:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Something of an overview was posted at WOMPO. I think we still need more and better numbers, but one of the complaints seems to me to miss the mark. Very little women's genre fiction (romances, for example) receives serious attention, and that would seem to skew the numbers. On the other hand, very little crime-spy-horror fiction, male or female, is reviewed outside specialized outlets or columns, likewise cowboy and erotica, and I'd bet most of this is written by men. I'm not making a case for reviewing them, by the way--most never rises above the genre. Which is not to dismiss the issue. Best, Mark At 02:42 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote: >Amy: I completely missed the Franzen etc >dust-up, have no idea what it is. Do you know a >site that would clarify this? Perhaps the sites of the battle? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >At 02:25 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote: >>I don't think anyone "picked" them - VIDA is responding to the buzz (and was >>stirring it) long before this dust up: Picoult >>queried via Twitter about the >>recent Franzen-frenzy, and then the mainstream venues got wind and paid >>attention. So VIDA is joining in the larger >>discussion of the numbers, rather >>than focusing on Franzen vs. Picoult. >> >>Of course, we can certainly look at how the >>genre numbers come out, as well as >>how the genres end up breaking down into categories that seem to be geared >>towards "gender-inclined" numbers. For >>example, Publishers Weekly's nonfiction >>"niche" called 'Lifestyle' removes seemingly-female subjects like Gardening, >>Health, Parenting, etc from the more general >>Nonfiction. And then the dubious >>title of 'Chick Lit' sometimes funnels literary >>fiction written by women away >>from Fiction, etc. >> >>Amy >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Chris Lott >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:15:49 PM >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers >> >>It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples >>should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because >>that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of >>the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but >>the more salient point is the type of work each does. >> >>c >> >>On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> > Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> > publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> > -- >> > >> http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >> >> > >> > >> > Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >>queries. >> > Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> > >> > Thanks much, >> > >> > Amy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ********* >> > Now That's WAC >> > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> > >> > Nepotism? >> > + >> > >> http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Amy's Alias >> > + http://amyking.org/ >> > ******** >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. >$16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > >"What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a >lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the >poet alive in every sense of the word, and >through every one of his senses. Instead of >missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are >like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets >left out, the more they seem to contain One can >hear echoes from all the various >ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its >core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the >fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a >pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not >only into a mind, but a person, a personality, >this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > >M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. >http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 15:27:26 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <474008.70613.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> There is at least one linked in the article, if not more -- http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers Welcomes, Amy From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:42:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers Amy: I completely missed the Franzen etc dust-up, have no idea what it is. Do you know a site that would clarify this? Perhaps the sites of the battle? Thanks, Mark At 02:25 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote: I don't think anyone "picked" them - VIDA is responding to the buzz (and was >stirring it) long before this dust up: Picoult queried via Twitter about the >recent Franzen-frenzy, and then the mainstream venues got wind and paid >attention. So VIDA is joining in the larger discussion of the numbers, rather >than focusing on Franzen vs. Picoult. > >Of course, we can certainly look at how the genre numbers come out, as well as >how the genres end up breaking down into categories that seem to be geared >towards "gender-inclined" numbers. For example, Publishers Weekly's nonfiction >"niche" called 'Lifestyle' removes seemingly-female subjects like Gardening, >Health, Parenting, etc from the more general Nonfiction. And then the dubious >title of 'Chick Lit' sometimes funnels literary fiction written by women away >from Fiction, etc. > >Amy > > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Chris Lott >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:15:49 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > >It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples >should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because >that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of >the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but >the more salient point is the type of work each does. > >c > >On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> -- >>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers > >> >> >> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >queries. >> Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ********* >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> Nepotism? >> + >>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> >> >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 15:37:28 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <352413.81346.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I've been thinking about this a lot for the obvious reasons. It is "suspected" by many that women these days write more fiction than men. Of course, proving that is another story. I could take a sampling of catalogs from some major publishers, hopefully if such things exist, and count how many women vs. men published books of fiction that year. There is no one source for the books published in a given year. Any other suggestions? Amy ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:18:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers And on that topic: do any statistics exist about overall publication numbers by gender, across the US publishing industry or for specific kinds of writing? It's hard to put context to the disparity when the underlying numbers with which the disparity is contrasted don't seem to be known. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples > should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because > that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of > the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but > the more salient point is the type of work each does. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> -- >>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >> >> >> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >queries. >> Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ********* >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> Nepotism? >> + >>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chris at chrislott.org Thu Sep 9 16:01:14 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:01:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <818989.44313.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was referring more to Picoult and Wiener picking Franzen as their opposition of sorts and the way that choice has resonated through the following conversations. That's problematic, to me, because of the type of work he is writing (see Mark Weiss's comments below), a confounding factor that makes it too easy to dismiss the important part of the argument along the way. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:25 AM, amy king wrote: > I don't think anyone "picked" them - VIDA is responding to the buzz (and was > stirring it) long before this dust up: ?Picoult queried via Twitter about the > recent Franzen-frenzy, and then the mainstream venues got wind and paid > attention. ?So VIDA is joining in the larger discussion of the numbers, rather > than focusing on Franzen vs. Picoult. > > Of course, we can certainly look at how the genre numbers come out, as well as > how the genres end up breaking down into categories that seem to be geared > towards "gender-inclined" numbers. ?For example, Publishers Weekly's nonfiction > "niche" called 'Lifestyle' removes seemingly-female subjects like Gardening, > Health, Parenting, etc from the more general Nonfiction. ?And then the dubious > title of 'Chick Lit' sometimes funnels literary fiction written by women away > from Fiction, etc. > > Amy > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:15:49 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > > It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples > should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because > that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of > the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but > the more salient point is the type of work each does. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> -- >>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >> >> >> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these > queries. >> ?Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ********* >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> Nepotism? >> + >>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From acgold01 at louisville.edu Thu Sep 9 16:29:24 2010 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 16:29:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler / Perloff / Caws Message-ID: <4C890B64.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Bob, This triad has probably published at least 40 or 50 books and anthologies among them, so I too am a little surprised that your friend has run out of things to say. But given that s/he has, and given that critics tend not to comment in a sustained way on other critics, here's a few thoughts: --if your friend can manage electronic access to Book Review Digest, that would provide reviews--of which there should be many--of these folks' works. --for Perloff, read her autobiographical *Vienna Paradox*, which will provide a level of background on her life and work that I don't think is available for Vendler and Caws. --reading Perloff's fairly widely reprinted and discussed essay "Pound/Stevens: Whose Era?" would provide a way into thinking about her and Vendler's mostly differing critical commitments. I don't think Perloff stands by the arguments of that essay now, because I think she (rightly) sees the opposition it rests on as too crude. But Perloff as a Poundian and Vendler as a Stevensian does provide a place to start, even if one would want to complicate the binary. In the extremely small world of poetry criticism, that essay generated considerable polemical heat pro and con at the time--which is more or less the same time that HV took me to task for daring to write about Stevens and Zukofsky without first having spent my life studying Stevens. Alan From tscotpeterson at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 18:30:38 2010 From: tscotpeterson at gmail.com (tscotpeterson at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 22:30:38 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: <352413.81346.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><352413.81346.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1613844172-1284071441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1192573556-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> The classic book on the history of the situation both Amy and Mark are talking about is Radway, A Feeling for Books. But I don't know the specifics of the contemporary scene as I don't read much fiction. Best, T Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:37:28 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers I've been thinking about this a lot for the obvious reasons. It is "suspected" by many that women these days write more fiction than men. Of course, proving that is another story. I could take a sampling of catalogs from some major publishers, hopefully if such things exist, and count how many women vs. men published books of fiction that year. There is no one source for the books published in a given year. Any other suggestions? Amy ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:18:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers And on that topic: do any statistics exist about overall publication numbers by gender, across the US publishing industry or for specific kinds of writing? It's hard to put context to the disparity when the underlying numbers with which the disparity is contrasted don't seem to be known. c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples > should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because > that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of > the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but > the more salient point is the type of work each does. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >> -- >>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >> >> >> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >queries. >> Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >> >> Thanks much, >> >> Amy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ********* >> Now That's WAC >> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >> >> Nepotism? >> + >>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >> >> >> >> >> Amy's Alias >> + http://amyking.org/ >> ******** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 21:38:53 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <8CD1DD3F856FF97-17EC-538C@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> <8CD1DD3F856FF97-17EC-538C@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <87857.99372.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I read the article a week ago, then went back and re-read it after these posts. My original reactions, though, remain unchanged (and opposite of yours, Jim). First I thought, "It's good to see one of the establishment poets get smacked around." There are too many over-praise reviews, especially when it comes to poetry books. (Is everyone's book wonderful?) Here, we voice differing opinions of Frost and no one ever questions our right to do it. Why not a living poet? And of Robbins' comment regarding the "natural world," I thought he was complaining about poems that, supposedly, evoke the natural world simply by tossing in mention of a deer or cloud or cormorant, as if that alone should make us gasp at the beauty, as if the mere mention should make us question whether we've wasted our poor only-human life. Again, I agree with him. Lastly, I don't think we can completely dismiss a critic because he or she is not a great poet. Yikes, if that were a criterion, most critics would be dismissed. John J ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 9:17:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass It's amusing that Robbins criticizes Hass for 'jumping the shark' when his poetry (by those New Yorker examples) is just a string of shark jumping in bad f/x. The other thing that was immediately off-putting about Robbins review was his contention that there is no 'natural world' to write about. He needs to get out more, as the expression goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2010 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing his arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... c On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry > would let > Robert Hass get raked over in a review... > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > > by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 9 22:49:37 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:49:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <87857.99372.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com><8CD1DD3F856FF97-17EC-538C@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> <87857.99372.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD1EA9F13FE6CE-1978-4BB6@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> What do you think gives Robbins the authority to pronounce another's experience of the naturual world inauthentic? How did he establish his credibility with you, John? Did he make his case from small amount of actual quoting he did from Hass's poems in the review? It seems his dismissal of Hass's affinity with nature was ex cathedra. Given the sensibility displayed (by the sample poems, unfair as that may be) there is little evidence that Robbins is deeply in touch with nature. Though he did mention elephants at outset of one the example poems. Bad poets may be good critics, of course. But if poet A reviews poet B and each are possessed of a radically different/opposed sensibilities, then it's kind a fait accompli, is is not? I'm not saying like should review like, and Robbins is free to dislike Hass's work; but I'm going to consider the source. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass I read the article a week ago, then went back and re-read it after these posts. My original reactions, though, remain unchanged (and opposite of yours, Jim). First I thought, "It's good to see one of the establishment poets get smacked around." There are too many over-praise reviews, especially when it comes to poetry books. (Is everyone's book wonderful?) Here, we voice differing opinions of Frost and no one ever questions our right to do it. Why not a living poet? And of Robbins' comment regarding the "natural world," I thought he was complaining about poems that, supposedly, evoke the natural world simply by tossing in mention of a deer or cloud or cormorant, as if that alone should make us gasp at the beauty, as if the mere mention should make us question whether we've wasted our poor only-human life. Again, I agree with him. Lastly, I don't think we can completely dismiss a critic because he or she is not a great poet. Yikes, if that were a criterion, most critics would be dismissed. John J From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 9:17:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass It's amusing that Robbins criticizes Hass for 'jumping the shark' when his poetry (by those New Yorker examples) is just a string of shark jumping in bad f/x. The other thing that was immediately off-putting about Robbins review was his contention that there is no 'natural world' to write about. He needs to get out more, as the expression goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2010 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing is arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... c On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry would let Robert Hass get raked over in a review... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 9 23:12:03 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:12:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dirda on Vendler on Dickinson Message-ID: <8CD1EAD13AE7BA8-1978-505A@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/08/AR2010090806543.html Helen Vendler's new commentary on Emily Dickinson, reviewed by Michael Dirda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Sep 10 01:15:01 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:15:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <87857.99372.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8CD1C39B930712E-1280-248D7@webmail-m036.sysops.aol.com> <8CD1DD3F856FF97-17EC-538C@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> <87857.99372.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sep 9, 2010, at 8:38 PM, John Jeffrey wrote: > And of Robbins' comment regarding the "natural world," I thought he was complaining about poems that, supposedly, evoke the natural world simply by tossing in mention of a deer or cloud or cormorant, as if that alone should make us gasp at the beauty, as if the mere mention should make us question whether we've wasted our poor only-human life. Again, I agree with him. ------------------------- I confess I don't quite understand this, either as a reading of Hass or as a reading of the reviewer. My reaction was closer to Finnegan's: seemed to me that Robbins just found poems about the natural world inherently laughable, shopworn, hectoring, or something bad (he didn't really make any point about nature that I could see, just expressed a vague attitude). In any case, I probably disagree with John J. about Hass, but he has at least expressed a clear complaint about Hass's work here; I could not locate any coherent argument in that aspect of Robbins's review. Personally I don't have anything against negative reviews or taking inflated repuations down a peg. I did think that Robbins, like William Logan in so many of his reviews, was so interested in parading his own cleverness and superiority that he didn't make much of a case. One of my favorite negative reviews was by Donald Hall, who wiped the floor with late Robert Lowell when Lowell was still alive and at the height of his reputation and influence. I didn't completely agree with him, but I admired the clarity and concreteness of his objections. He made me look more closely at Lowell. Robbins did not really provoke a reassessment of Hass. Hall went through a phase of trying to take a number of reputations down a peg back then, and gave Robert Penn Warren the same treatment, as I recall. I tended to agree about Warren, whose late work I also find gaseous and snooze-worthy. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 10 07:17:05 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:17:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vendler / Perloff / Caws In-Reply-To: <4C890B64.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <4C890B64.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <4C8A13B1.70401@nut-n-but.net> Thanks, Alan, but my friend is interested in what others have said about the trio. You should have asked HV why you needed a lifetime with Stevens when you have her books about him, by the way. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 10 07:20:19 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:20:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dirda on Vendler on Dickinson In-Reply-To: <8CD1EAD13AE7BA8-1978-505A@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1EAD13AE7BA8-1978-505A@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C8A1473.1030109@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/08/AR2010090806543.html > > Helen Vendler's new commentary on Emily Dickinson, reviewed by Michael > Dirda Dang, at her age--still so adventurous! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Sep 10 11:06:23 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:06:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" Message-ID: Was this essay discussed here at all? http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php c From halvard at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 11:57:04 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:57:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have your say, Chris. I just skimmed it, and here's mine: Yaaawn. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > Was this essay discussed here at all? > http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Sep 10 12:41:42 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:41:42 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I have anything to say, it'll probably be on the old blog... I just thought it seemed in keeping with two recent discussions of the same ilk... c On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Have your say, Chris. I just skimmed it, and here's mine: Yaaawn. > Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > Obras P?blicas > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > Tango Bouquet > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > Theory of Harmony > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > > Rapsodie espagnole > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > Guide to the Tokyo Subway > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > The Sonnet Project > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > G(e)nome > http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf > Winter Journey > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > Eclipse > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html > The Dance of the Red Swan > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > Transparencies & Projections > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> Was this essay discussed here at all? >> http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php >> >> c >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 10 13:48:36 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:48:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C8A6F74.3080908@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > Was this essay discussed here at all? > http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php > > c Just read as much of it as I could. Standard puritanical philistinism. Poetry's gotta do something besides be poetry or what good is it, however awesome some inhabitants of Wilshberia are? --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 13:02:17 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:02:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's my favorite sentence from that piece: "I read a lot of poetry, but I don't read all of it." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Chris Lott wrote: > If I have anything to say, it'll probably be on the old blog... I just > thought it seemed in keeping with two recent discussions of the same > ilk... > > c > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > > Have your say, Chris. I just skimmed it, and here's mine: Yaaawn. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > Obras P?blicas > > > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > > The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > Tango Bouquet > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > Theory of Harmony > > > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > > > > Rapsodie espagnole > > > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > > Guide to the Tokyo Subway > > > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > > The Sonnet Project > > > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > > G(e)nome > > http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf > > Winter Journey > > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > > Eclipse > > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html > > The Dance of the Red Swan > > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > Transparencies & Projections > > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Chris Lott > wrote: > >> > >> Was this essay discussed here at all? > >> http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php > >> > >> c > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Fri Sep 10 14:01:36 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:01:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD1F29582ADF2B-138C-622@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> I'm not sure there is a problem with poetry as much as there is with people who approach poetry with a set of preconceptions and look for ways in which poems do or so not conform to their expectations (Cook has been guilty of this in my experience). -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2010 1:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" Here's my favorite sentence from that piece: "I read a lot of poetry, but I don't read all of it." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 Tango Bouquet https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en Theory of Harmony https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf Rapsodie espagnole https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf Guide to the Tokyo Subway http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 The Sonnet Project https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf G(e)nome http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf Winter Journey http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html Eclipse http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html The Dance of the Red Swan http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html Transparencies & Projections http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Chris Lott wrote: If I have anything to say, it'll probably be on the old blog... I just thought it seemed in keeping with two recent discussions of the same ilk... c On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Have your say, Chris. I just skimmed it, and here's mine: Yaaawn. > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > Obras P?blicas > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > Tango Bouquet > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > Theory of Harmony > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > > Rapsodie espagnole > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > Guide to the Tokyo Subway > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > The Sonnet Project > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > G(e)nome > http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf > Winter Journey > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > Eclipse > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html > The Dance of the Red Swan > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > Transparencies & Projections > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> Was this essay discussed here at all? >> http://www.bookslut.com/features/2010_09_016571.php >> >> c >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 10 16:14:56 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:14:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "the problem with american poetry" In-Reply-To: <8CD1F29582ADF2B-138C-622@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1F29582ADF2B-138C-622@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C8A91C0.6010508@nut-n-but.net> almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > I'm not sure there is a problem with poetry as much as there is with > people who approach poetry with a set of preconceptions and look for > ways in which poems do or so not conform to their expectations (Cook > has been guilty of this in my experience). I agree but would add that there is also the problem of people who don't feel poems have a responsibility to conform to ANYone's expectations. In visual poetry circles, for instance, there are many, perhaps the majority, who don't think a poem need have any words. A few don't even think letters are necessary. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Sep 10 17:59:06 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:59:06 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: <1613844172-1284071441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1192573556-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <352413.81346.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1613844172-1284071441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1192573556-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Apropos: Franzen on NPR directly addressed Picoult/Wiener and the debate that has followed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129747555 c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > The classic book on the history of the situation both Amy and Mark are talking about is Radway, A Feeling for Books. But I don't know the specifics of the contemporary scene as I don't read much fiction. > > Best, T > Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:37:28 > To: NewPoetry List > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > > I've been thinking about this a lot for the obvious reasons. ?It is "suspected" > by many that women these days write more fiction than men. ?Of course, proving > that is another story. ?I could take a sampling of catalogs from some major > publishers, hopefully if such things exist, and count how many women vs. men > published books of fiction that year. > > There is no one source for the books published in a given year. ?Any other > suggestions? > > Amy > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:18:00 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > > And on that topic: do any statistics exist about overall publication > numbers by gender, across the US publishing industry or for specific > kinds of writing? It's hard to put context to the disparity when the > underlying numbers with which the disparity is contrasted don't seem > to be known. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples >> should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because >> that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of >> the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but >> the more salient point is the type of work each does. >> >> c >> >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >>> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >>> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >>> -- >>>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers >>> >>> >>> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >>queries. >>> ?Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ********* >>> Now That's WAC >>> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >>> >>> Nepotism? >>> + >>>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> + http://amyking.org/ >>> ******** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 10 18:53:11 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:53:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Koethe wins best poetry book prize Message-ID: <8CD1F5214220A5B-CB0-635@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/arts/102624159.html John Koethe wins best poetry book prize By Jim Higgins of the Journal Sentinel Sept. 10, 2010 10:06 a.m. |(3) Comments Former Milwaukee poet laureate John Koethe has been awarded this year's $25,000 Lenore Marshall Prize for his poetry collection "Ninety-fifth Street" (Harper Perennial). The Academy of American Poets gives the prize annually for the work judged to be the most outstanding book of poetry published in the previous year. In a statement announcing the honor, John Yau, one of the judges, wrote "John Koethe's candidness is unique among contemporary poets. In remarkably direct and transparent language, he writes about familiar things and ordinary moments that the reader will almost certainly have no trouble recognizing." Koethe recently retired from his day job as a professor of philosophy at the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 10 19:35:28 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:35:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kent v. Koch (estate, et al) Message-ID: <8CD1F57FC432C7C-A18-3658@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2010/09/update-kent-johnsons-question-mark.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjeffreymail at yahoo.com Sat Sep 11 08:30:13 2010 From: jjeffreymail at yahoo.com (John Jeffrey) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Message-ID: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> David has it right in one respect: I simply liked the fact that it was a "negative" review, mostly because it's so rare, especially in poetry, and more so because it was aimed at an establishment poet in an establishment journal. I grow tired of all the praise and glow and the "stunning books" and the "unique voice" and the "remarkable talent." Let opposed sensibilities have at it, I say. I want to hear both sides. As for Robbins' authority, that's not as important to me as his argument--or lack thereof. His argument may be thin and we can reject it, sure, but he can voice it, and Poetry can print it if they like. I believe Robbins has the authority to pronounce opinions about Hass because, well, because they are his opinions. He doesn't have to prove anything to me in that regard, just his argument. And I don't think standing has anything to do with it. Hass is not beyond the heckles of the bleacher seats. Heck, we've tossed around the merits of Frost and Pound, and they stand on far bigger feet than Hass. And my nature comments were more general than pointed at Hass. (I haven't read much of Hass, 20 or 30 poems maybe, and that's enough for me.) As I said, I'm tired of poets mentioning nature in a poem as if that alone carries elephants of meaning and depth (and therefore releases the poet from that heavy work). I don't know, though, if Robbins or anyone has to write poems about nature to be deeply in touch with it. At least I wouldn't take that hard a line. Do you actually have to own a dog to be a dog lover? (If so, then can you really love a whale?) Anyway, my comment was on the poems themselves, not Hass' attachment or experience with the natural world, which is meaningless to me. It's those "natural world" poems that talk about strolling down a crunchy path on a sparkly morning and then--O!--seeing an [insert favorite wild animal here] and--O!--how it looked at me, how it looked into me. And then that's it. Nothing more. As if, in a poem, seeing a deer or a hawk--without saying anything more--is any different than seeing a rock or a lamppost. It's the presumption that bugs me, that the poet now thinks that something deep has been said. Then again, that's just my wobbly opinion. John J ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 10:49:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass What do you think gives Robbins the authority to pronounce another's experience of the naturual world inauthentic? How did he establish his credibility with you, John? Did he make his case from small amount of actual quoting he did from Hass's poems in the review? It seems his dismissal of Hass's affinity with nature was ex cathedra. Given the sensibility displayed (by the sample poems, unfair as that may be) there is little evidence that Robbins is deeply in touch with nature. Though he did mention elephants at outset of one the example poems. Bad poets may be good critics, of course. But if poet A reviews poet B and each are possessed of a radically different/opposed sensibilities, then it's kind a fait accompli, is is not? I'm not saying like should review like, and Robbins is free to dislike Hass's work; but I'm going to consider the source. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: John Jeffrey To: NewPoetry List Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass I read the article a week ago, then went back and re-read it after these posts. My original reactions, though, remain unchanged (and opposite of yours, Jim). First I thought, "It's good to see one of the establishment poets get smacked around." There are too many over-praise reviews, especially when it comes to poetry books. (Is everyone's book wonderful?) Here, we voice differing opinions of Frost and no one ever questions our right to do it. Why not a living poet? And of Robbins' comment regarding the "natural world," I thought he was complaining about poems that, supposedly, evoke the natural world simply by tossing in mention of a deer or cloud or cormorant, as if that alone should make us gasp at the beauty, as if the mere mention should make us question whether we've wasted our poor only-human life. Again, I agree with him. Lastly, I don't think we can completely dismiss a critic because he or she is not a great poet. Yikes, if that were a criterion, most critics would be dismissed. John J ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 9:17:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass It's amusing that Robbins criticizes Hass for 'jumping the shark' when his poetry (by those New Yorker examples) is just a string of shark jumping in bad f/x. The other thing that was immediately off-putting about Robbins review was his contention that there is no 'natural world' to write about. He needs to get out more, as the expression goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2010 9:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing his arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... c On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry > would let > Robert Hass get raked over in a review... > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > > by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 08:51:47 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:51:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Gospel According to a Stolen Book Message-ID: Care to read the essay, "A Gospel According to a Stolen Book "? Visit: http://x-pensiverrors.blogspot.com/2010/09/gospel-according-to-stolen-book.html -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 11 12:02:10 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:02:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C8BA802.5060101@nut-n-but.net> Negative reviews are fine--as long as they are of Wilshberian poets. All other poetry is beneath even negative criticism. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Sep 11 12:32:54 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 09:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] What Is the State of American Poetry? Leading American Poets Speak -- Anis Shivani Message-ID: <473070.95525.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Video/poem highlights from Annie Finch, Ron Silliman, Clayton Eshleman, and Danielle Pafunda http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anis-shivani/state-of-american-poetry_b_706734.html Best, Amy ******** Now That's WAC + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** From jforjames at aol.com Sat Sep 11 12:53:25 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:53:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Balakian's Ziggurat on NPR Message-ID: <8CD1FE8FC8B5A46-608-C518@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129793955&ft=1&f=7 September 11, 2010 It's easy to forget that when New York's World Trade Center opened in 1971, it was one of the brand-new marvels of the world. Host Scott Simon speaks with Peter Balakian about Ziggurat, a new book of his poetry about Sept. 11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 13:27:06 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:27:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell "jumping the shark" means? Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:30 AM, John Jeffrey wrote: > David has it right in one respect: I simply liked the fact that it was a > "negative" review, mostly because it's so rare, especially in poetry, and > more so because it was aimed at an establishment poet in an establishment > journal. I grow tired of all the praise and glow and the "stunning books" > and the "unique voice" and the "remarkable talent." Let opposed > sensibilities have at it, I say. I want to hear both sides. > > As for Robbins' authority, that's not as important to me as his > argument--or lack thereof. His argument may be thin and we can reject it, > sure, but he can voice it, and Poetry can print it if they like. I believe > Robbins has the authority to pronounce opinions about Hass because, well, > because they are his opinions. He doesn't have to prove anything to me in > that regard, just his argument. And I don't think standing has anything to > do with it. Hass is not beyond the heckles of the bleacher seats. Heck, > we've tossed around the merits of Frost and Pound, and they stand on far > bigger feet than Hass. > > And my nature comments were more general than pointed at Hass. (I haven't > read much of Hass, 20 or 30 poems maybe, and that's enough for me.) As I > said, I'm tired of poets mentioning nature in a poem as if that alone > carries elephants of meaning and depth (and therefore releases the poet from > that heavy work). I don't know, though, if Robbins or anyone has to write > poems about nature to be deeply in touch with it. At least I wouldn't take > that hard a line. Do you actually have to own a dog to be a dog lover? (If > so, then can you really love a whale?) Anyway, my comment was on the poems > themselves, not Hass' attachment or experience with the natural world, which > is meaningless to me. It's those "natural world" poems that talk about > strolling down a crunchy path on a sparkly morning and then--O!--seeing an > [insert favorite wild animal here] and--O!--how it looked at me, how it > looked into me. And then that's it. Nothing more. As if, in a poem, > seeing a deer or a hawk--without saying anything more--is any different than > seeing a rock or a lamppost. It's the presumption that bugs me, that the > poet now thinks that something deep has been said. > > Then again, that's just my wobbly opinion. > > John J > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Thu, September 9, 2010 10:49:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass > > What do you think gives Robbins the authority to pronounce another's > experience of the naturual world inauthentic? How did he establish his > credibility with you, John? > Did he make his case from small amount of actual quoting he did from Hass's > poems in the review? It seems his dismissal of Hass's affinity with > nature was ex cathedra. > > Given the sensibility displayed (by the sample poems, unfair as that may > be) there is little evidence that Robbins is deeply in touch with nature. > Though he did mention elephants at outset of one the example poems. > > Bad poets may be good critics, of course. But if poet A reviews poet B and > each are possessed of a radically different/opposed sensibilities, then it's > kind a fait accompli, is is not? I'm not saying like should review like, and > Robbins is free to dislike Hass's work; but I'm going to consider the > source. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jeffrey > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 9:38 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass > > I read the article a week ago, then went back and re-read it after these > posts. My original reactions, though, remain unchanged (and opposite of > yours, Jim). First I thought, "It's good to see one of the establishment > poets get smacked around." There are too many over-praise reviews, > especially when it comes to poetry books. (Is everyone's book wonderful?) > Here, we voice differing opinions of Frost and no one ever questions our > right to do it. Why not a living poet? > > And of Robbins' comment regarding the "natural world," I thought he was > complaining about poems that, supposedly, evoke the natural world simply by > tossing in mention of a deer or cloud or cormorant, as if that alone should > make us gasp at the beauty, as if the mere mention should make us question > whether we've wasted our poor only-human life. Again, I agree with him. > > Lastly, I don't think we can completely dismiss a critic because he or she > is not a great poet. Yikes, if that were a criterion, most critics would > be dismissed. > > John J > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "jforjames at aol.com" > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Wed, September 8, 2010 9:17:57 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass > > It's amusing that Robbins criticizes Hass for 'jumping the shark' when > his poetry (by those New Yorker examples) is just a string of shark jumping > in bad f/x. > > The other thing that was immediately off-putting about Robbins review was > his contention that there is no 'natural world' to write about. He needs to > get out more, as the expression goes. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2010 9:12 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass > > Well, I suppose if Adam Fieled's poetry was fair game for dismissing > his arguments about poetry, the same should be done with Robbins... > > c > > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:21 PM, wrote: > > I guess for me it's a matter of standing, but I can't imagine why Poetry > > would let > > Robert Hass get raked over in a review... > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/article.html?id=239972 > > > > by poet Michael Robbins whose recent New Yorker poems are these... > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2010/04/12/100412po_poem_robbins > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2009/01/12/090112po_poem_robbins > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 11 14:37:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 13:37:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell > "jumping the shark" means? > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think. The l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat Sep 11 14:07:33 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:07:33 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... c On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell > "jumping the shark" means? > Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. > > I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm > reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think.? The > l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 14:22:58 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 13:22:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" Message-ID: I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into the *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well how good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of the second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" goes back into the middle of the 19th century.) I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting liberally, or apologizing for, etc. He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds himself hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For on his back is the only place where he mouth is not). I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday morning) network news analysis shows. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 14:23:16 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:23:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: If you take away "ridiculous" and replace it with exhausted/overworked/tired/etc then I have been jumping over the shark for some time now. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment > something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to > ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days > episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... > > c > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell > > "jumping the shark" means? > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > > > I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm > > reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think. > The > > l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 11 14:41:43 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:41:43 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kent v. Koch (estate, et al) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank goodness for the malicious Kent Johnson and his "brand" of art. And Richard Owens and his Bastard Uppercut Relevant Poetic among us. Straight from the loins lung. I can't wait for that book. And hopefully more DTC in years to come. Thank you for passing along the news. > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:35:28 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Kent v. Koch (estate, et al) > Message-ID: <8CD1F57FC432C7C-A18-3658 at webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2010/09/update-kent-johnsons-question-mark.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.weinstock at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 14:48:17 2010 From: david.weinstock at gmail.com (David Weinstock) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:48:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have always heard that it originated from a Happy Days episode involving Fonzie and a shark tank, after which the show is said to have started its long downhill slide. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into the > *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well how > good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of the > second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" goes > back into the middle of the 19th century.) > > I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst > saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in > his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured > politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, > say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing > with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days > (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting > liberally, or apologizing for, etc. > > He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds himself > hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For on his > back is the only place where he mouth is not). > > I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday > morning) network news analysis shows. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- *David Weinstock / 240 Woodland Park / Middlebury, VT 05753 Phone 802-388-6939** * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat Sep 11 14:57:22 2010 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:57:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I'm a prodigy, I'm pretty sure I jumped the shark with my life at 17 c On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > If you take away "ridiculous" and replace it with > exhausted/overworked/tired/etc > then I have been jumping over the shark for some time now. > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Chris Lott wrote: >> >> It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment >> something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to >> ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days >> episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... >> >> c >> >> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Grumman >> wrote: >> > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> > >> > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell >> > "jumping the shark" means? >> > Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. >> > >> > I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm >> > reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think. >> > The >> > l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 15:13:31 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:13:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. This is great if so. No poetry like the actual. It goes from popular culture into the vocabulary of political-analysis. That's not that unusual in our world, of se, but it's lovely the way it does it, and the difference in torque (character) of the two usages. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:48 PM, David Weinstock wrote: > I have always heard that it originated from a Happy Days episode involving > Fonzie and a shark tank, after which the show is said to have started its > long downhill slide. > > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into >> the *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well >> how good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of >> the second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" >> goes back into the middle of the 19th century.) >> >> I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst >> saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in >> his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured >> politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, >> say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing >> with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days >> (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting >> liberally, or apologizing for, etc. >> >> He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds >> himself hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For >> on his back is the only place where he mouth is not). >> >> I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday >> morning) network news analysis shows. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > *David Weinstock / 240 Woodland Park / Middlebury, VT 05753 > Phone 802-388-6939** > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 15:17:22 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:17:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Chris. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment > something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to > ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days > episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... > > c > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell > > "jumping the shark" means? > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > > > I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm > > reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think. > The > > l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 15:19:48 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:19:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the elucidations, amigos. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into the > *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well how > good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of the > second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" goes > back into the middle of the 19th century.) > > I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst > saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in > his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured > politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, > say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing > with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days > (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting > liberally, or apologizing for, etc. > > He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds himself > hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For on his > back is the only place where he mouth is not). > > I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday > morning) network news analysis shows. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 11 17:05:49 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:05:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4C8BCC83. 1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C8BEF2D.4080607@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment > something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to > ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days > episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... > > c Thanks, Chris, that's better than my interpretation, which fit. At least I got the gist--turning a bad situation around. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 16:34:13 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:34:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Slip them a fin. - Jim On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Thanks for the elucidations, amigos. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into >> the *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well >> how good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of >> the second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" >> goes back into the middle of the 19th century.) >> >> I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst >> saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in >> his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured >> politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, >> say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing >> with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days >> (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting >> liberally, or apologizing for, etc. >> >> He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds >> himself hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For >> on his back is the only place where he mouth is not). >> >> I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday >> morning) network news analysis shows. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:34:03 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:34:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I recently read an article by the guy who wrote that Happy Days article, defending it as good TV. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into the > *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well how > good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of the > second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" goes > back into the middle of the 19th century.) > > I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst > saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in > his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured > politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, > say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing > with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days > (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting > liberally, or apologizing for, etc. > > He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds himself > hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For on his > back is the only place where he mouth is not). > > I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday > morning) network news analysis shows. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:34:27 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:34:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Jumping the shark" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Episode, not article. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I'm not at the office and can't see if "jumping the shark" made it into the > *Random House Dictionary of American Slang*, but even knowing well how > good that reference is, I think the phrase post-dates the publication of the > second volume, but I could well be wrong. ("Crib" as slang for "home" goes > back into the middle of the 19th century.) > > I originally heard "jumping the shark" in political terms. An analyst > saying that a politician has taken on a cause, gotten too blatant/sour in > his public response, and now must take great effort not to be devoured > politically. A controversial politician gives a speech at the AAUP, > say, about the drastic cuts and alterations he feels necessary when dealing > with the future of Social Security, then must spend the following days > (weeks? rest of short career?) trying to rephrase, taking back, interpreting > liberally, or apologizing for, etc. > > He jumps a creature he feels he can handle (tame? kill?) then finds himself > hanging onto a shark (not a horse, or young roe) for dear life. (For on his > back is the only place where he mouth is not). > > I've heard it, I think, for about 6-10 years. From television (a la Sunday > morning) network news analysis shows. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Sep 11 18:44:08 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:44:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass In-Reply-To: References: <214685.85509.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com><4C8BCC83.1060403@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2019FA94B89A-608-F5B1@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Was that when you were dating Remora? I heard she was quite attached to you. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Sep 11, 2010 2:57 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Michael Robbin reviews Robert Hass I'm a prodigy, I'm pretty sure I jumped the shark with my life at 17 c On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Anny Ballardini anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: If you take away "ridiculous" and replace it with exhausted/overworked/tired/etc then I have been jumping over the shark for some time now. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > > It's a pop-culture phrase that means, essentially, the moment > something going from decent/reasonable/good/productive to > ridiculous/overworked/tired/etc. It comes from an old Happy Days > episode when The Fonz literally jumped a shark on water skis... > > c > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Anybody else here who doesn't (I confess) know what the hell > > "jumping the shark" means? > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > > > I had just come across it in a science fantasy detective-thriller I'm > > reading--it's turning the tables by attacking the shark . . . I think. > > The > > l'il poet is attack A Big Poet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Sep 11 18:54:56 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <352413.81346.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1613844172-1284071441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1192573556-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <652170.72301.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> He sure does, Chris. I listened and also came across the following take by Laura Lippman, the furtherance of such considerations I find telling to boot: Credit where credit is due: Terry Gross had Jonathan Franzen on "Fresh Air" on Thursday. At the beginning of the interview she characterized the discussion about Franzen's coverage in the media as a "certain amount of resentment of your success by some writers." Here's Franzen's response, transcribed from the podcast. "I haven't been following any of that closely, but the little bit that's trickled back to me hasn't sounded particularly ad hominem. It seems like there's a different critique, it's a feminist critique. And It's about the quality of attention that writing by women gets compared to the quality of attention by male writers. And I actually have a lot of those feelings myself and I have over the years." And debit where debit is due: If you want to find a media outlet where women are allotted much less airtime than men, then Fresh Air is at the top of the heap. I listen to the podcast now, but two years ago I was listening to it on radio and I noticed something strange, something I couldn't put my finger on at first. Then I got it: There were two female voices on the radio. Usually, there's one and it's Terry Gross. On a hunch, I chose a month at random and tallied up the guests. The disparity was shocking to me. Fewer than one-fifth of the guests that month were women. Now, I never took statistics, but I think looking at an entire month's line-up is a pretty good sample. Glancing at the current line-up of episodes in my iPod, these are the writers I see: Franzen, Scott Simon (talking about a book on adoption), Andre Agassi (interviewed about his memoir), Rafael Yglesias, Matthew Weiner, Gary Shteyngart, Harvey Pekar, Atul Gwande, Billy Collins (but he's talking about Emily Dickinson), a male cab driver, Michael Chabon, W.S. Merwin . . . the only female writers I see in the lead spot are: Lisa Cholodenko, who co-wrote the screenplay of The Kids Are All Right and Lena Horne's daughter, who I think is talking about a memoir about her mother. That's out of 56 episodes currently in my iTunes. And if I added all the other women in the lead interview spot, I think the list might grow to a total of five or six. (Dolly Parton, Marisa Tomei, Jackie DeShannon, but I could be missing an unbilled expert here or there. Some segments are described by topic, not interviewee.) But to review: I looked at 56 episodes, found 14 segments about writers. Only two were women. Jonathan Franzen gets it. Terry Gross doesn't. http://www.journalscape.com/LauraLippman/2010-09-10-08:02 ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Lott To: NewPoetry List Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 5:59:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers Apropos: Franzen on NPR directly addressed Picoult/Wiener and the debate that has followed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129747555 c On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > The classic book on the history of the situation both Amy and Mark are talking >about is Radway, A Feeling for Books. But I don't know the specifics of the >contemporary scene as I don't read much fiction. > > Best, T > Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > -----Original Message----- > From: amy king > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:37:28 > To: NewPoetry List > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > > I've been thinking about this a lot for the obvious reasons. It is "suspected" > by many that women these days write more fiction than men. Of course, proving > that is another story. I could take a sampling of catalogs from some major > publishers, hopefully if such things exist, and count how many women vs. men > published books of fiction that year. > > There is no one source for the books published in a given year. Any other > suggestions? > > Amy > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Chris Lott > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 2:18:00 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers > > And on that topic: do any statistics exist about overall publication > numbers by gender, across the US publishing industry or for specific > kinds of writing? It's hard to put context to the disparity when the > underlying numbers with which the disparity is contrasted don't seem > to be known. > > c > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Chris Lott wrote: >> It's an important issue, but a much better pair of "opposing" examples >> should have been chosen than Franzen vs Picoult (or Wiener) because >> that particular example/gripe is clouded by the nature and types of >> the works themselves. I have my own feelings about the quality, but >> the more salient point is the type of work each does. >> >> c >> >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:58 AM, amy king wrote: >>> Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding >>> publishing practices and numbers on Slate >>> -- >>>http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers > >>> >>> >>> Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these >>queries. >>> Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ********* >>> Now That's WAC >>> + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html >>> >>> Nepotism? >>> + >>>http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Amy's Alias >>> + http://amyking.org/ >>> ******** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Sep 11 16:01:34 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:01:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Koethe wins best poetry book prize In-Reply-To: <8CD1F5214220A5B-CB0-635@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD1F5214220A5B-CB0-635@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: More power to Wisconsin's own John Koethe--and to any fellow poet who wins a prize--but I was baffled by John Yau's quoted statement: "John Koethe's candidness is unique among contemporary poets. In remarkably direct and transparent language, he writes about familiar things and ordinary moments that the reader will almost certainly have no trouble recognizing." Even if Yau meant "unusual" or "distinctive" rather than "unique," the statement makes no sense. Koethe is more candid than Sharon Olds? Allen Ginsberg? Wendell Berry? Or pretty much all the poets in an anthology like *The Spoken Word Revolution*? And as for his "direct and transparent language" in writing about "familiar things and ordinary moments," does this not describe, oh, about a thousand contemporary American poets who spring immediately to mind? Candid I suppose Koethe may be, but his poetry is, as such things go, highly cerebral, and his style more to the Mandarin end of the spectrum than any number of prominent poets one could name. Strange. Reminds me of the time Jorie Graham praised James Tate as a "terrifying" poet. Tate is many things, but I would rank "terrifying" as rather near the bottom of the list. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:53 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/arts/102624159.html > > John Koethe wins best poetry book prize > > By Jim Higgins of the Journal Sentinel > Sept. 10, 2010 10:06 a.m. |(3) Comments > Former Milwaukee poet laureate John Koethe has been awarded this year's $25,000 Lenore Marshall Prize for his poetry collection "Ninety-fifth Street" (Harper Perennial). > > The Academy of American Poets gives the prize annually for the work judged to be the most outstanding book of poetry published in the previous year. > > In a statement announcing the honor, John Yau, one of the judges, wrote "John Koethe's candidness is unique among contemporary poets. In remarkably direct and transparent language, he writes about familiar things and ordinary moments that the reader will almost certainly have no trouble recognizing." > Koethe recently retired from his day job as a professor of philosophy at the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 21:56:28 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:56:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Koethe wins best poetry book prize In-Reply-To: References: <8CD1F5214220A5B-CB0-635@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: "Unique" means almost anything but "unique" nowadays. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:01 PM, David Graham wrote: > More power to Wisconsin's own John Koethe--and to any fellow poet who wins > a prize--but I was baffled by John Yau's quoted statement: "John Koethe's > candidness is unique among contemporary poets. In remarkably direct and > transparent language, he writes about familiar things and ordinary moments > that the reader will almost certainly have no trouble recognizing." > > Even if Yau meant "unusual" or "distinctive" rather than "unique," the > statement makes no sense. Koethe is more candid than Sharon Olds? Allen > Ginsberg? Wendell Berry? Or pretty much all the poets in an anthology like > *The Spoken Word Revolution*? > > And as for his "direct and transparent language" in writing about "familiar > things and ordinary moments," does this not describe, oh, about a thousand > contemporary American poets who spring immediately to mind? > > Candid I suppose Koethe may be, but his poetry is, as such things go, > highly cerebral, and his style more to the Mandarin end of the spectrum than > any number of prominent poets one could name. > > Strange. Reminds me of the time Jorie Graham praised James Tate as a > "terrifying" poet. Tate is many things, but I would rank "terrifying" as > rather near the bottom of the list. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:53 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/arts/102624159.html John Koethe wins > best poetry book prize > By Jim Higgins of the Journal Sentinel > Sept. 10, 2010 10:06 a.m. |(3) Comments > Former Milwaukee poet laureate John Koethe has been awarded this year's > $25,000 Lenore Marshall Prize for his poetry collection "Ninety-fifth > Street" (Harper Perennial). > > The Academy of American Poets gives the prize annually for the work judged > to be the most outstanding book of poetry published in the previous year. > > In a statement announcing the honor, John Yau, one of the judges, wrote > "John Koethe's candidness is unique among contemporary poets. In remarkably > direct and transparent language, he writes about familiar things and > ordinary moments that the reader will almost certainly have no trouble > recognizing." > Koethe recently retired from his day job as a professor of philosophy at > the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 12 01:49:49 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:49:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Koethe wins best poetry book prize In-Reply-To: References: <8CD1F5214220A5B-CB0-635@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2D320FC3-B39E-40D9-B935-1D32974566CF@ripon.edu> Apparently it now means "commonplace," at least to John Yau. On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "Unique" means almost anything but "unique" nowadays. > > Hal ====================== ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 12 13:27:01 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] OT: More Troubling Data About Women Writers / and Yau and Koethe Message-ID: I'll echo Chris's point and wonder if it would be interesting to count poetry book publications over a recent year by men and women. I wonder if in this big / small sphere we wouldn't see more equity. But it hit me on the head that seeking official recognition for an underepresented category of person must be dirty and difficult work for she who actually does the insisting. It looks almost selfless when I think of the challenge it must present, seeking this representation for others must involve seeking it for oneself as part of the whole, to ones own moral trail blazing consistency. A true selflessness in letting that last part go, open to what Ego might achieve. And perhaps it's even proven that it works. I haven't counted but I think the majority of contemporary work I'm at least reading is by women, and I haven't planned anything that way. I work at a press that publishes more women than men, and my bosses there are two women and come to think of it, where I teach too and my only other big print press interning my boss was (is) a woman. At that school the poetry faculty was one woman and two men, and that seems fixed for some time. Though these personal accounts are only that, I can't help wonder if poetry publication doesn't somehow not fit neatly into a larger scene. Whatever that's worth. Amy King & co and the news. A great fight. That's all I wanted to say. I'm wondering too what the current gush over clarities and directs and transparents is up to and comes from. It's been stroked and caressed much lately, for a while now too. "A dazzling type, it might, with same profit...wordless life. The lifting of his chin for a fight, the tossing of his head for a kiss." As a sincere compliment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 14:20:28 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:20:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany Message-ID: http://verysmallkitchen.com/2010/09/09/a-primer-in-concrete-david-berridge-and-marton-koppany/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From munrop at sprynet.com Sun Sep 12 16:45:04 2010 From: munrop at sprynet.com (Peter Munro) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 13:45:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Missing Data About Women Writers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C8D3BD0.8020001@sprynet.com> Greetings, A lurker delurks momentarily. Jared wrote: > I'll echo Chris's point and wonder if it would be interesting to count > poetry book publications over a recent year by men and women. I > wonder if in this big / small sphere we wouldn't see more equity. Another approach would be to identify gender of winners in all the blind book competitions. Gender in contest results would be easy; for many you wouldn't even need to ask, just cruise their web sites.. The missing data would be the sex ratio of those submitting. That would require some serious digging, at the very least asking the institutions running the contests for permissions, getting the raw entry data from them, then going through and identifying gender. The hypothesis would be easy to formulate and test: does the ratio of female to male among contest winners equal the ratio of female to male in contest enterers. You might have to estimate some correction factor to adjust for the gender ratio among initial document screeners and the same ratio among final judges; estimate a correction or at least do some hand-waving and assuming. Getting the entry gender data actually wouldn't be that tough: at least it exists, you wouldn't have to go out and make a new study that generates new observations. It would be cheap in that sense, requiring only the time of some hapless grad student. Somebody in some social science department who studies gender issues may well have such a student to set loose on the problem. The analysis would be tidy and sturdy and statistically sound and easily published. Peter From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 12 19:37:17 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:37:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Nice find, Anny. Now Bob can't complain for at least a week that no one is paying -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 2:20 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany http://verysmallkitchen.com/2010/09/09/a-primer-in-concrete-david-berridge-and-marton-koppany/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 19:38:27 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:38:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wanna bet? Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:37 PM, wrote: > Nice find, Anny. Now Bob can't complain for at least a week that no one is > paying > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 2:20 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany > > > http://verysmallkitchen.com/2010/09/09/a-primer-in-concrete-david-berridge-and-marton-koppany/ > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 12 19:38:41 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:38:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD20EAC42F5BEB-CB0-196B0@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> ....paying attention. -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 7:37 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany Nice find, Anny. Now Bob can't complain for at least a week that no one is paying -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 2:20 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany http://verysmallkitchen.com/2010/09/09/a-primer-in-concrete-david-berridge-and-marton-koppany/ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 19:42:20 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:42:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online Message-ID: http://www.thescreamonline.com/poetry/poetry5-1/contents.html This links to a online anthology selected by my friend, John Guzlowski. John's preface is definitely worth a read. He's an unflinchingly honest writer, an artist who won't (and can't) turn away from either the ugliness or the beauty of the world around him. If you've not read his chapbook, *Third Winter of War: Buchenwald *(Finishing Line Press), or his collection, *Lightning and Ashes* (Steel Toe Books), I recommend tracking them down. My best, Jeff Newberry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 22:37:06 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 04:37:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: the zounds of music - ekleksographia Message-ID: New issue of Ekleksographia (Wave Two) guest edited by Pam Brown. Audio files, photos, poetry and prose. Contributors : Chris Andrews - Anny Ballardini - Bird Lane Nettle- Ken Bolton Pam Brown - Kurt Brereton - Kieran Carroll - Justin Clemens CAConrad - Peter Davis - Roger Dean & Hazel Smith Laurie Duggan - Martin Edmond - Kate Fagan - Michael Farrell Jill Jones - Kit Kelen - Rachel Loden - Conor Madigan Peter Minter - Jane Joritz?Nakagawa - David Prater Maurice Scully - Amanda Stewart - Tim Wright http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/brown/index.html Thanks to AhaDada's Ekleksographia general editor Jesse Glass and Matthew Teutsch and Daniel Sendecki, techno editors. ___________________________________________________________ Blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com/ Web site : http://pambrownbooks.blogspot.com/ Associate editor : Jacket - http://jacketmagazine.com/ ___________________________________________________________ -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 13 08:11:08 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:11:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C8E14DC.5070106@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Nice find, Anny. Now Bob can't complain for at least a week that no > one is paying any attention to non-Wilshberian poetry, I take it. But you exaggerate. I don't complain very often, actually. Much less often than you tell us about tenth-rate Wilshberians getting big sums of money for their poetry. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 13 08:22:41 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:22:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > http://www.thescreamonline.com/poetry/poetry5-1/contents.html > > This links to a online anthology selected by my friend, John > Guzlowski. John's preface is definitely worth a read. Why? I ask not to annoy you, Jeff, but because I think it a duty of people making recommendations like yours to tell us briefly about what they are recommending, and why we ought to check it out. Might save someone a trip to the site and the possible hassle of finding what it is you're recommending. For those of us with near-obsolete, slow computers like me, that would be very helpful. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 08:03:18 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:03:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online In-Reply-To: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Why? Why not, Bob? Plus, I can assure that the poems you'll find there are the "verbo-texto-lollypopo" brand that you hate so much. So, save your old computer a trip. Jeff Newberry On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Jeff Newberry wrote: > > http://www.thescreamonline.com/poetry/poetry5-1/contents.html > > This links to a online anthology selected by my friend, John Guzlowski. > John's preface is definitely worth a read. > > Why? I ask not to annoy you, Jeff, but because I think it a duty of people > making recommendations like yours to tell us briefly about what they are > recommending, and why we ought to check it out. Might save someone a trip > to the site and the possible hassle of finding what it is you're > recommending. For those of us with near-obsolete, slow computers like me, > that would be very helpful. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Sep 13 08:39:30 2010 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:39:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2157D821DCA9-1940-47230@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com> Good to see Jared Carter there. A wonderful and underrecognized poet. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 13, 2010 8:03 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online Why? Why not, Bob? Plus, I can assure that the poems you'll find there are the "verbo-texto-lollypopo" brand that you hate so much. So, save your old computer a trip. Jeff Newberry On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: Jeff Newberry wrote: http://www.thescreamonline.com/poetry/poetry5-1/contents.html This links to a online anthology selected by my friend, JohnGuzlowski. John's preface is definitely worth a read. Why? I ask not to annoy you, Jeff, but because I think it a duty ofpeople making recommendations like yours to tell us briefly about whatthey are recommending, and why we ought to check it out. Might savesomeone a trip to the site and the possible hassle of finding what itis you're recommending. For those of us with near-obsolete, slowcomputers like me, that would be very helpful. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 13 10:33:09 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:33:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C8E3625.40301@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > Why? > > Why not, Bob? I told you: because it would take time to find, so it makes sense to know a little about it before going to it. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 10:38:02 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:38:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The God Poems: The Scream Online In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E1791.5080401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Don't make things too easy for Bob, Jeff. He (and his computer) need the exercise. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Why? > > Why not, Bob? > > Plus, I can assure that the poems you'll find there are the > "verbo-texto-lollypopo" brand that you hate so much. So, save your old > computer a trip. > > Jeff Newberry > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Jeff Newberry wrote: >> >> http://www.thescreamonline.com/poetry/poetry5-1/contents.html >> >> This links to a online anthology selected by my friend, John Guzlowski. >> John's preface is definitely worth a read. >> >> Why? I ask not to annoy you, Jeff, but because I think it a duty of >> people making recommendations like yours to tell us briefly about what they >> are recommending, and why we ought to check it out. Might save someone a >> trip to the site and the possible hassle of finding what it is you're >> recommending. For those of us with near-obsolete, slow computers like me, >> that would be very helpful. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Mon Sep 13 11:25:45 2010 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests Message-ID: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in the early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest small presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable through reverse practices? Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken or unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student ran a study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests for the press. I don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From tscotpeterson at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 12:15:36 2010 From: tscotpeterson at gmail.com (tscotpeterson at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:15:36 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> ...But publishers aren't just passive recipients; presumably they are also entrepreneurs... Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 To: New Poetry Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in the early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest small presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable through reverse practices? Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken or unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student ran a study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests for the press. I don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Sep 13 12:52:57 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Who can pro-actively solicit, send invites to specific groups, recognize imbalances, etc. ----- Original Message ---- From: "tscotpeterson at gmail.com" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 12:15:36 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests ...But publishers aren't just passive recipients; presumably they are also entrepreneurs... Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 To: New Poetry Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in the early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest small presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable through reverse practices? Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken or unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student ran a study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests for the press. I don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. Be well David Baratier, Editor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:14:36 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 20:14:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marton Koppany In-Reply-To: <4C8E14DC.5070106@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD20EA91D06495-CB0-19686@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> <4C8E14DC.5070106@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah James, nobody will ever win it against Bob, we have to keep that in mind. On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Nice find, Anny. Now Bob can't complain for at least a week that no one is > paying > > any attention to non-Wilshberian poetry, I take it. But you exaggerate. > I don't complain very often, actually. Much less often than you tell us > about tenth-rate Wilshberians getting big sums of money for their poetry. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tscotpeterson at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 16:22:47 2010 From: tscotpeterson at gmail.com (tscotpeterson at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 20:22:47 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <633146003-1284409352-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1247745068-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Exactly, yes. Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein -----Original Message----- From: amy king Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:52:57 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 18:58:11 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 18:58:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: But not for a contest. It would be contrary to all ethics to announce a contest and then go out and solicit particular authors. On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, wrote: > ...But publishers aren't just passive recipients; presumably they are also > entrepreneurs... > > Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Baratier > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 > To: New Poetry > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > > Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not > necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize > their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in > the early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who > would want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest > small presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" > and equitable through reverse practices? > > Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken > or unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student > ran a study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a > bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests > for the press. I don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits > as a reasonable act. > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Sep 13 19:16:11 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <611154.17278.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> But it wouldn't be to send contest announcements to specific listservs,?poet bloggers who draw a specific audience,?as well as cite, as some contests and ads do, "Women, etc are encouraged to apply / submit," esp if?an editor finds that submissions are male-heavy or anything-else-heavy.? Or am I wrong?? I'm open to hearing why! Best, Amy ________________________________ From: Tad Richards To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 6:58:11 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests But not for a contest. It would be contrary to all ethics to announce a contest and then go out and solicit particular authors. On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, wrote: ...But publishers aren't just passive recipients; presumably they are also entrepreneurs... > >Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Baratier >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 >To: New Poetry >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > >Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not >necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize >their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in the >early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who would >want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest small >presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and >equitable through reverse practices? > >Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken or >unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student ran a >study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a bit under >a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests for the press. I >don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > >Pavement Saw Press >321 Empire Street >Montpelier OH 43543 >http://pavementsaw.org > >Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at >http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 03:28:57 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 00:28:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Their Ringtones You Shall Know Them Message-ID: "A ringtone advertises the owner of the mobile phone. It says: listen to me as I tell a bit about this fellow's difference. By extension, the medium has become the addressee and could even be a signifier of the addresser. These days when mobile telephony has brought further stress upon marriages and other relationships, is it not ingenious to configure the rings in such a way that the clever addressee can tell who is calling, at least to be able to know whether to answer, where to answer, what to answer; or to know which story to tell later to the person eavesdropping by the side? The medium will eventually be the accomplice as well as the evidence." To read the full text of "From Their Ringtones You Shall Know Them," visit: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5618388-182/story.csp -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 08:52:08 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 07:52:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Their Ringtones You Shall Know Them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Ringtones for the New Millennium: A Baker's Dozen* ?Flatulence (57 varieties from "Lonely Little Peeshotter" to "Thanksgiving Groaner"1). ?The muffled wail of a dying child. ?A mastiff hit by a semi: from horn to lumpy thuds, battered howls, and doggy screams. ?Shooting up the day room of a chronic ward in a nut house: desultory grunts and trickling babble amid the bark of gunfire and incoherent screaming. ?The auditory "tale" of a tire iron to a human head, from screaming "For the sweet sake of Jesus, dont!" to the first wack, then the repeated smash, repeated until it's but the lovely suck of a mushy squish amid the hot coursing breath the huffing assailant, which becomes increasingly louder. ?A stutterer saying "Sweet fucking Jesus" while making his nut. ?A colony of colobus monkeys in screaming hysterical fright. ?An cloud of blue-flies hovering over a ripe corpse, amplified. ?The silly bleats of bulls and sheep when gelding. ?The strangling of a successive series of small animals: dog, cat, gerbil, bird. Can be repeated as many times as you want. ?The brawlings of a spastic parrot. ?The frothy crest of a hell-and-brimstone sermon delivered by an enraged preacher with Tourettes. ?An unqualified hush, like that above a shallow grave, for those who are tired of taking calls. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > "A ringtone advertises the owner of the mobile phone. It says: listen to > me as I tell a bit about this fellow's difference. By extension, the medium > has become the addressee and could even be a signifier of the addresser. > These days when mobile telephony has brought further stress upon marriages > and other relationships, is it not ingenious to configure the rings in such > a way that the clever addressee can tell who is calling, at least to be able > to know whether to answer, where to answer, what to answer; or to know which > story to tell later to the person eavesdropping by the side? The medium will > eventually be the accomplice as well as the evidence." > > To read the full text of "From Their Ringtones You Shall Know Them," > visit: > http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5618388-182/story.csp > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 14 09:39:18 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:39:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] If you live near Hartford CT: Wallace Stevens B-day Bash, Nov. 6. In-Reply-To: <8CD21CE1D207135-1EBC-78B9@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD21CC6BA535FA-1EBC-760A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CC9BE5091F-1EBC-7654@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CDF3F678CA-1EBC-7866@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CE1D207135-1EBC-78B9@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD22295D55047F-14A8-2594@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> 15th Annual Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash Saturday, November 6, 2010, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT Reception at 6:30PM; serving hors d'oeuvres and libations. Featured Speaker? JOAN RICHARDSON Wallace Stevens' Radiant and Productive Atmosphere A tracing of how the poet came to translate faith into his "supreme fiction." "The imperfect is our paradise." --Wallace Stevens, "The Poems of Our Climate" Birthday cake & champagne after the program! Tickets are $50 per person; send check payable to: Connecticut Center for the Book 500 Main Street Hartford CT 06103 Or reserve your tickets at the door, via email to Kat Lyons: klyons at hplct.org or call 860-695-6320. Sponsored by Connecticut Center for the Book at the Hartford Public Library with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens (stevenspoetry.org). For more information, contact Jim Finnegan, 860-508-2810 jforjames at aol.com Joan Richardson is Professor of English, Comparative Literature, and American Studies at The Graduate Center. Author of a two-volume biography of the poet Wallace Stevens, she coedited, with Frank Kermode, Wallace Stevens: Collected Poetry and Prose (Library of America, 1997). Her essays on Stevens, on Ralph Waldo Emerson, on Jonathan Edwards have been published in the Wallace Stevens Journal, in Raritan, and elsewhere, and essays on Alfred North Whitehead, William James, and pragmatism have appeared in the journals Configurations and The Hopkins Review. Her study A Natural History of Pragmatism: The Fact of Feeling from Jonathan Edwards to Gertrude Stein was published by Cambridge University Press in 2007, and has been nominated for the 2011 Grawemeyer Award in Religion. She is currently at work on another volume for Cambridge, Pragmatism and American Culture as well as a book-length study, The Return of the Repressed: Stanley Cavell and Ralph Waldo Emerson. Joan Richardson has been the recipient of several awards and fellowships including a Woodrow Wilson Fellowship and a Senior Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Her work reflects an abiding interest in the way that philosophy, natural history, and science intersect with literature. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Sep 14 14:57:55 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unless you're talking about niche publishers, who represent only an immediate cohort, it's asking a bit much of small presses, usually run by one or two people with hugely overcommitted lives. David's point is also well taken, that perceived political need has often made women's work less available to us small fry. Add toi which, there are about a dozen (correct me if I'm wrong) presses that publish women only, and quite a few more that publish primarily women. The mischievous part of me wonders what the situation would be like if those presses published only 50% women. Best, Mark At 12:52 PM 9/13/2010, you wrote: >Who can pro-actively solicit, send invites to >specific groups, recognize imbalances, etc. > >----- Original Message ---- >From: "tscotpeterson at gmail.com" >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 12:15:36 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > >...But publishers aren't just passive >recipients; presumably they are also entrepreneurs... > >Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Baratier <editor at pavementsaw.org> >Sender: >new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 >To: New Poetry<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >Reply-To: NewPoetry List ><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > >Identifying gender in book contests, or in >overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal >clear results. The idea for large publishers to >equalize their overall poetry title lists >through publishing more women started in the >early to mid-nineties and made poetry >manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a >book with us when university presses and some of >the largest small presses (over $200,000 income >yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable through reverse practices? > >Our press loss three titles in that period to >larger presses due to broken or unsigned >contracts. As for contests, when a university >economics student ran a study on our press >overall in the early 2000s, they found there was >a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women >submitting to the contests for the press. I >don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tscotpeterson at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 15:25:12 2010 From: tscotpeterson at gmail.com (tscotpeterson at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:25:12 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Mark's post brings up interesting questions for me. For example, how many small presses are run by men? How many of those presses generate a community of male writers or emerge directly out of a community of male writers? Do women-only presses in their attempt to remedy the numbers situation exert a counter-force of gravity that isolates the aforementioned small presses run by men, and paradoxically makes it more difficult for them to appeal to / market their vision to women writers? Tim Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 To: NewPoetry List Reply-To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 16:25:05 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:25:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] If you live near Hartford CT: Wallace Stevens B-day Bash, Nov. 6. In-Reply-To: <8CD22295D55047F-14A8-2594@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD21CC6BA535FA-1EBC-760A@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CC9BE5091F-1EBC-7654@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CDF3F678CA-1EBC-7866@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD21CE1D207135-1EBC-78B9@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <8CD22295D55047F-14A8-2594@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Congratulations! Have some cake for me as well. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:39 PM, wrote: > *15th Annual Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash* > > Saturday, November 6, 2010, 6:30 P.M. > Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT > > Reception at 6:30PM; serving hors d'oeuvres and libations. > > Featured Speaker? > *JOAN RICHARDSON* > *Wallace Stevens' Radiant and Productive Atmosphere* > *A tracing of how the poet came to translate faith into his "supreme > fiction."* > > *"The imperfect is our paradise." --Wallace Stevens, "The Poems of Our > Climate"* > > Birthday cake & champagne after the program! > > Tickets are $50 per person; send check payable to: > > Connecticut Center for the Book > 500 Main Street > Hartford CT 06103 > > Or reserve your tickets at the door, via email to Kat Lyons: > klyons at hplct.org > or call 860-695-6320. > > Sponsored by Connecticut Center for the Book at the Hartford Public Library > with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens (stevenspoetry.org > ). > > For more information, contact Jim Finnegan, 860-508-2810 > jforjames at aol.com > > *Joan Richardson* is Professor of English, Comparative Literature, and > American Studies at The Graduate Center. Author of a two-volume biography of > the poet Wallace Stevens, she coedited, with Frank Kermode, *Wallace > Stevens: Collected Poetry and Prose* (Library of America, 1997). Her > essays on Stevens, on Ralph Waldo Emerson, on Jonathan Edwards have been > published in the *Wallace Stevens Journal*, in *Raritan*, and elsewhere, > and essays on Alfred North Whitehead, William James, and pragmatism have > appeared in the journals *Configurations* and *The* *Hopkins Review.* Her > study *A Natural History of Pragmatism: The Fact of Feeling from Jonathan > Edwards to Gertrude Stein* was published by Cambridge University Press in > 2007, and has been nominated for the 2011 Grawemeyer Award in Religion. She > is currently at work on another volume for Cambridge, *Pragmatism and > American Culture* as well as a book-length study, *The Return of the > Repressed: Stanley Cavell and Ralph Waldo Emerson*. Joan Richardson has > been the recipient of several awards and fellowships including a Woodrow > Wilson Fellowship and a Senior Fellowship from the National Endowment for > the Humanities. Her work reflects an abiding interest in the way that > philosophy, natural history, and science intersect with literature. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Sep 14 16:29:42 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:29:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim. net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: The problem in discussing this is that everyone seems to think they know what the situation is but there are no real statistics about what gets published, and compiling those statistics isn't so easy. It's been pointed out for fiction that there are subgenres that could skew the findings--romance novels are almost always written by women, cowboy stuff by men. These are enormous industries within publishing. Something like this also exists in poetry. One of the few profitable areas in poetry is inspirational/devotional/christian poetry. I'm only aware that it exists becauser Paul Blackburn's mother wrote a lot of it, quite cynically, and Paul's widow, with whom I used to live, got the journals, church newsletters, etc., in the mail. Almost entirely women, and a lot of them. Do we include that as poetry when figuring out the numbers? What about cowboy poetry? Was it last year a couple of women decided to tally up the numbers for a handful of magazines they considered the most prestigious? They found that some of them rarely printed women. Problem was, those mags--NYRB was one--print almost no poetry. In the NYRB the majority of the never more than twelve poems they print a year are by men. It's not just lack of statistics, but the lack of a good statistical model. Best, Mark At 03:25 PM 9/14/2010, you wrote: >Mark's post brings up interesting questions for >me. For example, how many small presses are run >by men? How many of those presses generate a >community of male writers or emerge directly out >of a community of male writers? Do women-only >presses in their attempt to remedy the numbers >situation exert a counter-force of gravity that >isolates the aforementioned small presses run by >men, and paradoxically makes it more difficult >for them to appeal to / market their vision to women writers? > >Tim > >Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 >To: NewPoetry List >Reply-To: NewPoetry List >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 21:22:17 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:22:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- though she did win a Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all devotional many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for money or not), nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry anthologies that end up being strange anthologies of overlooked modernist female poets: Grace Conckling, etc. etc. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From junction at earthlink.net Tue Sep 14 21:39:03 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:39:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I wasn't implying that all of her verse was for cash. This is still a thriving industry. At 09:22 PM 9/14/2010, you wrote: >I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- though she did win a >Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all devotional > >many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for money or not), >nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry anthologies that >end up being strange anthologies of overlooked modernist female poets: > Grace Conckling, etc. etc. >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Sep 14 21:37:32 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:37:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests Message-ID: <39ac3.8459b6c.39c17d5c@cs.com> In a message dated 9/14/2010 8:28:32 PM Central Daylight Time, c.a.b.daly at gmail.com writes: > > > I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- though she did win a > Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all devotional > > many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for money or not), > nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry anthologies that > end up being strange anthologies of overlooked modernist female poets: > Grace Conckling, etc. etc. > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Well, here's one who wasn't overlooked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_McGinley Also see my essay on Dorothy Parker: http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Has-Dottie-got-legs--5245 There may have been other overlooked in these times, but these two were certainly widely read, admired, and honored. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From munrop at sprynet.com Wed Sep 15 02:12:26 2010 From: munrop at sprynet.com (Peter Munro) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 23:12:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Greetings, MarkW wrote: > The problem in discussing this is that everyone seems to think they > know what the situation is but there are no real statistics about what > gets published, and compiling those statistics isn't so easy. and > It's not just lack of statistics, but the lack of a good statistical > model. I think it just lack of data, not the statistics. The models would be pretty easy, for testing hypotheses (classical statistics), for estimating parameters (more useful statistics), or for allowing data to select the best model for estimating parameters (most useful and most modern). One set of data that could be got at, perhaps even at low cost, would be that of blindly judged contests for poetry book manuscripts. There must be three dozen of these things to be identified in Poets And Writers alone. I've submitted to plenty, just check my check book. All the identifying information is to be stripped away from the manuscript. Supposedly the initial screening is blind as well as final judging by the elite pooh-bah. Say you could get contestant entry data as well as winner data for 10 such contests. You would estimate the gender ratio among contestants for the whole population of blind contests from the 10 observed and then estimate the gender ratio for the population of winners from the same ten. The hypothesis to test would be that the two ratios are equal. This is, in the statistician's parlance, the Null Hypothesis (very old school these days but blind followers of the priesthood of statistics still seem to yearn for this crap). There are a number of tests for such a hull hypothesis, varying mostly with regard to underlying assumptions, but all well established and with quite long pedigrees. If such a test rejected the null hypothesis, which is to say, the rate of one gender winning blind contests being different from the rate of that gender entering the contests, you'd be onto something. There'd be a paper in it for the researcher, just the thing for a tender young Masters student to cut her or his teeth on. I wouldn't be surprised if those two ratios were indeed different. Why would that be? Well, who knows, except for human bias and bigotry have wonderous osmotic qualities, soaking in to whole shitloads of stuff. At any rate, as a starting place, you'd then have the fun and interesting challenge of trying to estimate gender ratios among judges and screeners into the investigation. A sturdier approach would be to use the binomial distribution, viewing each blind contest as an independent Bernoulli event, the only two possible outcomes being female winner or male winner. Only a little more complicated, still painfully well within the reach of a Masters student. Since I'm sure that for most of you this account has already been sufficiently stultifying I won't bother you with any of the details. Suffice it to say that the primary parameter in a binomial distribution is the probability of one of the two outcomes. You can build cool little models to estimate that probability, including things like numbers of female contestants, numbers of male contestants, numbers of female screeners, numbers of male screeners, genders of final judges, size of the prize, etc. You can use things called likelihood ratio tests if you set up your models cleverly enough to directly test which model is better and based on that outcome, derive the best parameter estimate. Even cooler, there is a family of things called Information Criteria that you use to evaluate differences in likelihoods as a function of the number of parameters contributing to each likelihood and as a function of the amount of information in the data (which is about the ability of the data to estimate parameters, not information in the more ordinary day to day sense). Again, the purpose would be to estimate the outcome (female winner, male winner) of blind contests, but with parameters representing different influences in that outcome, parameters that could be sensibly interpreted. All of this is well established stuff. I'm not talking through my hat. The likelihood ratio tests are most akin to classical hypothesis testing, but far more useful and are beginning to see some acceptance in courts of law. The Information Criteria approaches are even more powerful and flexible, but are new enough that they haven't seen much use yet in the realm of law, either in making law or pursuing litigation. (The Information Criterion approach has been late in coming in the west since the founding papers were written in Japanese by a real wizard of a guy named Akaiki. There were some formative papers in German as well. IC approaches gained traction among theorists in the 80s, began showing up in solid empirical research in the 90s and Oughts, and are now becoming more common place in basic research. But you can't find a simple recipe for them, you have to build your analysis from the ground up, so they remain out of bounds still for those who do statistics by clicking on buttons on a GUI. Just as well, I suppose. I imagine only another decade or two before they are the dominant tool in law as well.) There are even more sophisticated statistical tools available, given the data, but they might be a bit beyond the reach of your average English major. All these approaches require data, however. No data, no statistics. No formal testing, no parameter estimation, no model comparison. Nada. Nothing. Zip. Garbage in, garbage out. That's why I've been talking about blind contests for poetry manuscripts. From painful experience I can tell you that each of those contests costs 25 clams. (A clam is a US Dollar for those of you who don't conduct your commerce in the world's largest debtor nation.) For 25 bucks (bucks? clams? why this switching of units of measure? fear not: bucks and clams are the same thing) those various institutions had damn well better be entering contestant information in a database. They'd be truly stupid not to, for their own sakes. So, the hapless grad student in some social science department would only have to persuade the people running each contest to cough up their database. There might be some confidentiality hoops to jump through, but I bet it could be done. All it takes is a stipend for a Masters student, a professor to look over that student's shoulder, and a little computer loaded with R, the baddest assed of all bad ass statistical softwares and free to boot. $60K or $70K ought to cover the whole deal including overhead for the institution. That's a ton of money for literary types but not so much for demographic studies. Actually kind of cheap. Somebody on the ball in a social science faculty should be able to snag a grant somewhere to cover it: publish or perish boys and girls, and this one would be a fat, slow pitch right down the middle. The most likely glitch, however, is that no matter how stupid it would be for those administering blind contests to fail to enter their contestant data in a database, most of them probably did fail to do just that. And there the cost of this tidy little study just went up. A bunch. Sigh. Okay. So this is boring, nonliterary stuff. Sorry. I just think this set of questions needn't remain subjected to what seems so far to me to be pretty speculative treatment. There are data, we just gotta dig. The question is cool and the investigation could be fun. Peter From msullivan at metrocast.net Wed Sep 15 08:56:36 2010 From: msullivan at metrocast.net (SULLIVAN) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:56:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall Issue of Tower Journal Message-ID: The Fall 2010 issue of The Tower Journal is now available online, featuring the poetry and art work of Eduardo Martins, Jack Foley, Walter Butts, Kate Greenstreet, Jillian Brall, Ruth Lepson, D?nall Dempsey, Paulette Turcotte, Satnrose, Ruth Lepson, Howie Good, Hugh Fox, Michael Haeflinger, Robert Philbin, Nicholas Won...g, Neila Mezynski, Lisa Kwong, Lily Yari, Sweta Vikram, Jason Visconti, Danny P. Barbare, Bedrettin Yazan, Ayn Frances dela Cruz, Jon Stocks, Gerald Bosacker, Lisa Zaran, Suzanne Jacobson, Kenneth Pobo, Gary Beck, Mike Berger, Mary-Marcia Casoly. Mary Ann Sullivan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlantry at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 10:22:25 2010 From: wlantry at gmail.com (Bill Lantry) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:22:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall Issue of Tower Journal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mary Ann, Very nice. I love the piece on the intro page. But you forgot to include a link: http://www.towerjournal.com/ Thanks, Bill On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 8:56 AM, SULLIVAN wrote: > The Fall 2010 issue of The Tower Journal is now available online, > featuring the poetry and art work of Eduardo Martins, Jack Foley, Walter > Butts, Kate Greenstreet, Jillian Brall, Ruth Lepson, D?nall Dempsey, > Paulette Turcotte, Satnrose, Ruth Lepson, Howie Good, Hugh Fox, Michael > Haeflinger, Robert Philbin, Nicholas Won...g, Neila Mezynski, Lisa Kwong, > Lily Yari, Sweta Vikram, Jason Visconti, Danny P. Barbare, Bedrettin Yazan, > Ayn Frances dela Cruz, Jon Stocks, Gerald Bosacker, Lisa Zaran, Suzanne > Jacobson, Kenneth Pobo, Gary Beck, Mike Berger, Mary-Marcia Casoly. > > > Mary Ann Sullivan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 10:38:58 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 07:38:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Message-ID: those of you who have judged competitions, contests, for scripts, manuscripts, plays, etc.: can you tell the gender of the writer? by subject matter? other qualities? is it important to you / do you gravitate toward a particular subject matter or particular gender of author? do you know why? do you prefer works which seem to "transcend" gender, where the gender of the author does not matter / is not as important as other qualities? Since most contests are judged, I think there is probably a big difference between the slush pile and the finalists (selected, usually, by readers) and then the winners selected by judges. I know that there are certain frequent judges who do seem to choose more women than men, or more of an even assortment, and certain who do not. But I would like to hear from the judges themselves. Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 15 10:56:39 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:56:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Message-ID: And then there's this. Years ago a bunch of folks in my circle were informed that one of us would be on a grant committee and it would be a good year to apply. The person in question would certainly have recognized which poem was whose, tho the application was blind. Best, Mark At 10:38 AM 9/15/2010, you wrote: >those of you who have judged competitions, contests, for scripts, >manuscripts, plays, etc.: > >can you tell the gender of the writer? by subject matter? other qualities? > >is it important to you / do you gravitate toward a particular subject >matter or particular gender of author? do you know why? > >do you prefer works which seem to "transcend" gender, where the gender >of the author does not matter / is not as important as other >qualities? > >Since most contests are judged, I think there is probably a big >difference between the slush pile and the finalists (selected, >usually, by readers) and then the winners selected by judges. I know >that there are certain frequent judges who do seem to choose more >women than men, or more of an even assortment, and certain who do not. > But I would like to hear from the judges themselves. > >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 15 11:23:50 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:23:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Julia de Burgos gests stamp Message-ID: <8CD2301223E8490-E44-C593@Webmail-m121.sysops.aol.com> The renowned Puerto Rican poet Julia de Burgos, who has won fame after dying nameless on the streets of East Harlem in 1953 at the age of 39, is being honored with a U.S. stamp. The stamp was dedicated in a ceremony in Puerto Rico yesterday and should be available already at post offices across the country and online, said Roy Betts, a spokesman for the U.S. Postal Service. It features a portrait of the poet with blue water flowing in the background Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/latino/2010/09/15/2010-09-15_untitled__julia15v.html?r=entertainment#ixzz0zc0flYfj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 11:44:29 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:44:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Message-ID: >From my experience, very difficult. I also have problems in detecting the age of the writer, besides the gender. On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > those of you who have judged competitions, contests, for scripts, > manuscripts, plays, etc.: > > can you tell the gender of the writer? by subject matter? other qualities? > > is it important to you / do you gravitate toward a particular subject > matter or particular gender of author? do you know why? > > do you prefer works which seem to "transcend" gender, where the gender > of the author does not matter / is not as important as other > qualities? > > Since most contests are judged, I think there is probably a big > difference between the slush pile and the finalists (selected, > usually, by readers) and then the winners selected by judges. I know > that there are certain frequent judges who do seem to choose more > women than men, or more of an even assortment, and certain who do not. > But I would like to hear from the judges themselves. > > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Sep 15 14:45:02 2010 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <540373.346.qm@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The data exists in substantial quantities at this point. An over load of it. In fact, some honchos have made arts funding entirely contingent upon taking surveys, to the point where publishing, or how many copies are created, or if they sell, is irrelevant unless you can substantiate who the books are sold to. Where this info disappears to I have no sense of. But the NEA instituted this idea about 7 years ago and it has taken hold and has been adopted by a majority of states. Love to hear if any of you could find these reports. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --- On Wed, 9/15/10, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > From: new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 6:11 AM > Send New-Poetry mailing list > submissions to > ??? new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > ??? new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: on gender and contests (Mark > Weiss) > ???2. Re: on gender and contests (tscotpeterson at gmail.com) > ???3. Re: If you live near Hartford CT: > Wallace Stevens B-day Bash, > ? ? ? Nov. 6. (Anny Ballardini) > ???4. Re: on gender and contests (Mark > Weiss) > ???5. Re: on gender and contests (Catherine > Daly) > ???6. Re: on gender and contests (Mark > Weiss) > ???7. Re: on gender and contests (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) > ???8. Re: on gender and contests (Peter > Munro) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > Format="flowed" > > Unless you're talking about niche publishers, who > represent only an immediate cohort, it's asking a > bit much of small presses, usually run by one or > two people with hugely overcommitted lives. > David's point is also well taken, that perceived > political need has often made women's work less > available to us small fry. Add toi which, there > are about a dozen (correct me if I'm wrong) > presses that publish women only, and quite a few > more that publish primarily women. > > The mischievous part of me wonders what the > situation would be like if those presses published only 50% > women. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 12:52 PM 9/13/2010, you wrote: > >Who can pro-actively solicit, send invites to > >specific groups, recognize imbalances, etc. > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: "tscotpeterson at gmail.com" > > >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 12:15:36 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > > > >...But publishers aren't just passive > >recipients; presumably they are also entrepreneurs... > > > >Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: David Baratier <editor at pavementsaw.org> > >Sender: > >new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:25:45 > >To: New Poetry<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > >Reply-To: NewPoetry List > ><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > > > >Identifying gender in book contests, or in > >overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal > >clear results. The idea for large publishers to > >equalize their overall poetry title lists > >through publishing more women started in the > >early to mid-nineties and made poetry > >manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a > >book with us when university presses and some of > >the largest small presses (over $200,000 income > >yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable > through reverse practices? > > > >Our press loss three titles in that period to > >larger presses due to broken or unsigned > >contracts. As for contests, when a university > >economics student ran a study on our press > >overall in the early 2000s, they found there was > >a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women > >submitting to the contests for the press. I > >don't see how holding a press responsible for who > submits as a reasonable act. > > > >Be well > > > >David Baratier, Editor > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are > like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain? One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:25:12 +0000 > From: tscotpeterson at gmail.com > To: "NewPoetry List" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: > ??? <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441- at bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain > > Mark's post brings up interesting questions for me. For > example, how many small presses are run by men? How many of > those presses generate a community of male writers or emerge > directly out of a community of male writers? Do women-only > presses in their attempt to remedy the numbers situation > exert a counter-force of gravity that isolates the > aforementioned small presses run by men, and paradoxically > makes it more difficult for them to appeal to / market their > vision to women writers? > > Tim > > Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 > To: NewPoetry List > Reply-To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:25:05 +0200 > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] If you live near Hartford CT: > Wallace > ??? Stevens B-day Bash, Nov. 6. > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Congratulations! Have some cake for me as well. > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:39 PM, > wrote: > > >? ???*15th Annual Wallace Stevens > Birthday Bash* > > > > Saturday, November 6, 2010, 6:30 P.M. > > Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT > > > > Reception at 6:30PM; serving hors d'oeuvres and > libations. > > > > Featured Speaker? > > *JOAN RICHARDSON* > > *Wallace Stevens' Radiant and Productive Atmosphere* > > *A tracing of how the poet came to translate faith > into his "supreme > > fiction."* > > > > *"The imperfect is our paradise." --Wallace Stevens, > "The Poems of Our > > Climate"* > > > >? Birthday cake & champagne after the > program! > > > > Tickets are $50 per person; send check payable to: > > > > Connecticut Center for the Book > > 500 Main Street > > Hartford CT 06103 > > > > Or reserve your tickets at the door, via email to Kat > Lyons: > > klyons at hplct.org > > or call 860-695-6320. > > > > Sponsored by Connecticut Center for the Book at the > Hartford Public Library > > with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace > Stevens (stevenspoetry.org > > ). > > > > For more information, contact Jim Finnegan, > 860-508-2810 > > jforjames at aol.com > > > > *Joan Richardson* is Professor of English, Comparative > Literature, and > > American Studies at The Graduate Center. Author of a > two-volume biography of > > the poet Wallace Stevens, she coedited, with Frank > Kermode, *Wallace > > Stevens: Collected Poetry and Prose* (Library of > America, 1997). Her > > essays on Stevens, on Ralph Waldo Emerson, on Jonathan > Edwards have been > > published in the *Wallace Stevens Journal*, in > *Raritan*, and elsewhere, > > and essays on Alfred North Whitehead, William James, > and pragmatism have > > appeared in the journals *Configurations* and *The* > *Hopkins Review.* Her > > study *A Natural History of Pragmatism: The Fact of > Feeling from Jonathan > > Edwards to Gertrude Stein* was published by Cambridge > University Press in > > 2007, and has been nominated for the 2011 Grawemeyer > Award in Religion. She > > is currently at work on another volume for Cambridge, > *Pragmatism and > > American Culture* as well as a book-length study, *The > Return of the > > Repressed: Stanley Cavell and Ralph Waldo Emerson*. > Joan Richardson has > > been the recipient of several awards and fellowships > including a Woodrow > > Wilson Fellowship and a Senior Fellowship from the > National Endowment for > > the Humanities. Her work reflects an abiding interest > in the way that > > philosophy, natural history, and science intersect > with literature. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth > to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:29:42 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > Format="flowed" > > The problem in discussing this is that everyone > seems to think they know what the situation is > but there are no real statistics about what gets > published, and compiling those statistics isn't > so easy. It's been pointed out for fiction that > there are subgenres that could skew the > findings--romance novels are almost always > written by women, cowboy stuff by men. These are > enormous industries within publishing. Something > like this also exists in poetry. One of the few > profitable areas in poetry is > inspirational/devotional/christian poetry. I'm > only aware that it exists becauser Paul > Blackburn's mother wrote a lot of it, quite > cynically, and Paul's widow, with whom I used to > live, got the journals, church newsletters, etc., > in the mail. Almost entirely women, and a lot of > them. Do we include that as poetry when figuring > out the numbers? What about cowboy poetry? > > Was it last year a couple of women decided to > tally up the numbers for a handful of magazines > they considered the most prestigious? They found > that some of them rarely printed women. Problem > was, those mags--NYRB was one--print almost no > poetry. In the NYRB the majority of the never > more than twelve poems they print a year are by men. > > It's not just lack of statistics, but the lack of a good > statistical model. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 03:25 PM 9/14/2010, you wrote: > >Mark's post brings up interesting questions for > >me. For example, how many small presses are run > >by men? How many of those presses generate a > >community of male writers or emerge directly out > >of a community of male writers? Do women-only > >presses in their attempt to remedy the numbers > >situation exert a counter-force of gravity that > >isolates the aforementioned small presses run by > >men, and paradoxically makes it more difficult > >for them to appeal to / market their vision to women > writers? > > > >Tim > > > >Sent from my Instant Wittgenstein > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark Weiss > >Sender: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:57:55 > >To: NewPoetry List > >Reply-To: NewPoetry List > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are > like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain? One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:22:17 -0700 > From: Catherine Daly > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- though > she did win a > Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all devotional > > many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for money > or not), > nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry > anthologies that > end up being strange anthologies of overlooked modernist > female poets: > Grace Conckling, etc. etc. > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:39:03 -0400 > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > Format="flowed" > > I wasn't implying that all of her verse was for cash. > > This is still a thriving industry. > > At 09:22 PM 9/14/2010, you wrote: > >I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- > though she did win a > >Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all > devotional > > > >many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for > money or not), > >nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry > anthologies that > >end up being strange anthologies of overlooked > modernist female poets: > >? Grace Conckling, etc. etc. > >-- > >All best, > >Catherine Daly > >c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16.? Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are > like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain? One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:37:32 EDT > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: <39ac3.8459b6c.39c17d5c at cs.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > In a message dated 9/14/2010 8:28:32 PM Central Daylight > Time, > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > writes: > > > > > > I'm glad you bring that up about Frances Frost -- > though she did win a > > Poetry Society of America prize; it wasn't all > devotional > > > > many female poets also wrote children's poetry (for > money or not), > > nonsense verse... there are many children's poetry > anthologies that > > end up being strange anthologies of overlooked > modernist female poets: > > Grace Conckling, etc. etc. > > -- > > All best, > > Catherine Daly > > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > > Well, here's one who wasn't overlooked: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_McGinley > > Also see my essay on Dorothy Parker: > > http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Has-Dottie-got-legs--5245 > > There may have been other overlooked in these times, but > these two were > certainly widely read, admired, and honored. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 23:12:26 -0700 > From: Peter Munro > To: NewPoetry List > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests > Message-ID: <4C9063CA.7080707 at sprynet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > ? Greetings, > > MarkW wrote: > > > The problem in discussing this is that everyone seems > to think they > > know what the situation is but there are no real > statistics about what > > gets published, and compiling those statistics isn't > so easy. > > and > > > It's not just lack of statistics, but the lack of a > good statistical > > model. > > I think it just lack of data, not the statistics.? The > models would be > pretty easy, for testing hypotheses (classical statistics), > for > estimating parameters (more useful statistics),? or > for allowing data to > select the best model for estimating parameters (most > useful and most > modern). > > One set of data that could be got at, perhaps even at low > cost, would be > that of blindly judged contests for poetry book > manuscripts.? There must > be three dozen of these things to be identified in Poets > And Writers > alone.? I've submitted to plenty, just check my check > book.? All the > identifying information is to be stripped away from the > manuscript.? > Supposedly the initial screening is blind as well as final > judging by > the elite pooh-bah. > > Say you could get contestant entry data as well as winner > data for 10 > such contests.? You would estimate the gender ratio > among contestants > for the whole population of blind contests from the 10 > observed and then > estimate the gender ratio for the population of winners > from the same > ten.? The hypothesis to test would be that the two > ratios are equal.??? > This is, in the statistician's parlance, the Null > Hypothesis (very old > school these days but blind followers of the priesthood of > statistics > still seem to yearn for this crap).???There > are a number of tests for > such a hull hypothesis, varying mostly with regard to > underlying > assumptions, but all well established and with quite long > pedigrees.? If > such a test rejected the null hypothesis, which is to say, > the rate of > one gender winning blind contests being different from the > rate of that > gender entering the contests, you'd be onto > something.? There'd be a > paper in it for the researcher, just the thing for a tender > young > Masters student to cut her or his teeth on. > > I wouldn't be surprised if those two ratios were indeed > different.? Why > would that be?? Well, who knows, except for human bias > and bigotry have > wonderous osmotic qualities, soaking in to whole shitloads > of stuff.? At > any rate, as a starting place, you'd then have the fun and > interesting > challenge of trying to estimate gender ratios among judges > and screeners > into the investigation. > > A sturdier approach would be to use the binomial > distribution, viewing > each blind contest as an independent Bernoulli event, the > only two > possible outcomes being female winner or male winner.? > Only a little > more complicated, still painfully well within the reach of > a Masters > student.? Since I'm sure that for most of you this > account has already > been sufficiently stultifying I won't bother you with any > of the > details.? Suffice it to say that the primary parameter > in a binomial > distribution is the probability of one of the two > outcomes.? You can > build cool little models to estimate that probability, > including things > like numbers of female contestants, numbers of male > contestants, numbers > of female screeners, numbers of male screeners, genders of > final? > judges, size of the prize, etc.? You can use things > called likelihood > ratio tests if you set up your models cleverly enough to > directly test > which model is better and based on that outcome, derive the > best > parameter estimate.? Even cooler, there is a family of > things called > Information Criteria that you use to evaluate differences > in likelihoods > as a function of the number of parameters contributing to > each > likelihood and as a function of the amount of information > in the data > (which is about the ability of the data to estimate > parameters, not > information in the more ordinary day to day sense).? > Again, the purpose > would be to estimate the outcome (female winner, male > winner) of blind > contests, but with parameters representing different > influences in that > outcome, parameters that could be sensibly interpreted. > > All of this is well established stuff.? I'm not > talking through my hat.? > The likelihood ratio tests are most akin to classical > hypothesis > testing, but far more useful and are beginning to see some > acceptance in > courts of law.? The Information Criteria approaches > are even more > powerful and flexible, but are new enough that they haven't > seen much > use yet in the realm of law, either in making law or > pursuing > litigation.? (The Information Criterion approach has > been late in coming > in the west since the founding papers were written in > Japanese by a real > wizard of a guy named Akaiki.? There were some > formative papers in > German as well.? IC approaches gained traction among > theorists in the > 80s, began showing up in solid empirical research in the > 90s and Oughts, > and are now becoming more common place in basic > research.? But you can't > find a simple recipe for them, you have to build your > analysis from the > ground up, so they remain out of bounds still for those who > do > statistics by clicking on buttons on a GUI.? Just as > well, I suppose.??? > I imagine only another decade or two before they are the > dominant tool > in law as well.) > > There are even more sophisticated statistical tools > available, given the > data, but they might be a bit beyond the reach of your > average English > major. > > All these approaches require data, however.? No data, > no statistics.? No > formal testing, no parameter estimation, no model > comparison.? Nada.? > Nothing.? Zip.? Garbage in, garbage out. > > That's why I've been talking about blind contests for > poetry manuscripts. > > From painful experience I can tell you that each of those > contests > costs 25 clams.? (A clam is a US Dollar for those of > you who don't > conduct your commerce in the world's largest debtor > nation.)? For 25 > bucks (bucks? clams? why this switching of units of > measure?? fear not: > bucks and clams are the same thing) those various > institutions had damn > well better be entering contestant information in a > database.? They'd be > truly stupid not to, for their own sakes.? So, the > hapless grad student > in some social science department would only have to > persuade the people > running each contest to cough up their database.? > There might be some > confidentiality hoops to jump through, but I bet it could > be done.? All > it takes is a stipend for a Masters student, a professor to > look over > that student's shoulder, and a little computer loaded with > R, the > baddest assed of all bad ass statistical softwares and free > to boot.? > $60K or $70K ought to cover the whole deal including > overhead for the > institution.? That's a ton of money for literary types > but not so much > for demographic studies.? Actually kind of > cheap.? Somebody on the ball > in a social science faculty should be able to snag a grant > somewhere to > cover it: publish or perish boys and girls, and this one > would be a fat, > slow pitch right down the middle. > > The most likely glitch, however, is that no matter how > stupid it would > be for those administering blind contests to fail to enter > their > contestant data in a database, most of them probably did > fail to do just > that.? And there the cost of this tidy little study > just went up.? A > bunch.? Sigh. > > Okay.? So this is boring, nonliterary stuff.? > Sorry.? I just think this > set of questions needn't remain subjected to what seems so > far to me to > be pretty speculative treatment.? There are data, we > just gotta dig.? > The question is cool and the investigation could be fun. > > Peter > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31 > ***************************************** > From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 13:20:39 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 19:20:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Europeana Message-ID: On Europeana: Oscar Wilde's Picture of Dorian Grey, the first book from Charles Dickens, Pickwick Papersand Baudelaire's book of French poetry, Les Fleurs Du Malare some of the more well known titles on Europeana. From Italy comes the writing of Casanova- the 18th century character famous for his adventurous lifestyle and love affairs - and Niccolo Machiavelli, a Renaissance philosopher. On a more practical note, both Gardening For Ladiesand a Garden Almanacfrom the 1800s offer tips on growing the perfect vegetables, while historians and family researchers may enjoy reading diaries and letters from the First World War . -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 13:44:12 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:44:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Europeana In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks good. Here's the portal url: http://www.europeana.eu/portal/ Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > On Europeana: > > Oscar Wilde's Picture of Dorian Grey, > the first book from Charles Dickens, Pickwick Papersand Baudelaire's book of French poetry, Les > Fleurs Du Malare some of the more well known titles on Europeana. From Italy comes the > writing of Casanova- the 18th century character famous for his adventurous lifestyle and love > affairs - and Niccolo Machiavelli, > a Renaissance philosopher. > > On a more practical note, both Gardening For Ladiesand a Garden > Almanacfrom the 1800s offer tips on growing the perfect vegetables, while > historians and family researchers may enjoy reading diaries and letters > from the First World War > . > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 15:07:54 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:07:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Bringhurst and the Typographic style Message-ID: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881791326/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller= -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 16 21:53:54 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:53:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cryptographiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD0F5C8A258A63-10B0-103C0@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C92CA32.1090107@nut-n-but.net> I'd be grateful for any kind of feedback on these two gadgets. The coding is supposed to be metaphorically meaningful. I've done maybe ten such poems. Over more than ten years. No one's ever commented on them. --Bob . ##### . 1 .#.9.#.# . 1 .#.15.5.# . a .2.i.18.4 . a .16.o.e.13 . a i . a o e . a . all around the path . o.18.1.ng.5, 25.5.l.12.15.w, 18.e.4 and b.18.own . 12.5.1.21.5.19 in slow descent From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 23:13:58 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:13:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cryptographiku In-Reply-To: <4C92CA32.1090107@nut-n-but.net> References: <8CD0F5C8A258A63-10B0-103C0@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com> <4C92CA32.1090107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Ah, confessional poetry, not my direct field of interest. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:53 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'd be grateful for any kind of feedback on these two gadgets. The coding > is supposed to be metaphorically meaningful. I've done maybe ten such > poems. Over more than ten years. No one's ever commented on them. > > > --Bob > > . ##### > > . 1 .#.9.#.# > > . 1 .#.15.5.# > > . a .2.i.18.4 > > . a .16.o.e.13 > > . a i > > . a o e > > . a > > > > > . all around the path > > . o.18.1.ng.5, 25.5.l.12.15.w, 18.e.4 and b.18.own > > . 12.5.1.21.5.19 in slow descent > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 01:54:45 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Message-ID: <631368.85060.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> one cannot transcend 'gender' it's an irretrievable thread ~ ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 10:38:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests those of you who have judged competitions, contests, for scripts, manuscripts, plays, etc.: can you tell the gender of the writer? by subject matter? other qualities? is it important to you / do you gravitate toward a particular subject matter or particular gender of author? do you know why? do you prefer works which seem to "transcend" gender, where the gender of the author does not matter / is not as important as other qualities? Since most contests are judged, I think there is probably a big difference between the slush pile and the finalists (selected, usually, by readers) and then the winners selected by judges. I know that there are certain frequent judges who do seem to choose more women than men, or more of an even assortment, and certain who do not. But I would like to hear from the judges themselves. Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 01:56:12 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 22:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests_ps In-Reply-To: References: <346228.4409.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1817010796-1284394537-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-392791476-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <127388.35244.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <855807798-1284492650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-41854441-@bda818.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C9063CA.7080707@sprynet.com> Message-ID: <388374.39735.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> where can one find the man who makes a living not judging is the more adequate question in our view ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 10:38:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests those of you who have judged competitions, contests, for scripts, manuscripts, plays, etc.: can you tell the gender of the writer? by subject matter? other qualities? is it important to you / do you gravitate toward a particular subject matter or particular gender of author? do you know why? do you prefer works which seem to "transcend" gender, where the gender of the author does not matter / is not as important as other qualities? Since most contests are judged, I think there is probably a big difference between the slush pile and the finalists (selected, usually, by readers) and then the winners selected by judges. I know that there are certain frequent judges who do seem to choose more women than men, or more of an even assortment, and certain who do not. But I would like to hear from the judges themselves. Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 17 07:56:36 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 06:56:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cryptographiku In-Reply-To: References: <8CD0F5C8A258A63-10B0-103C0@webmail-d089.sysops.aol.com><4C92CA32.1090107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C935774.9050803@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Ah, confessional poetry, not my direct field of interest. Aah, you don't count, Anny--you're too biased against ANY kind of Wilshberian poem. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 14:39:06 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:39:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 3 minute fiction Message-ID: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129752769 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:43:53 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:43:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Daly Reading @ Poetry / Hybrid Stage, WeHo Book Fair In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 9th Annual West Hollywood Book Fair Sunday, September 26, 2010 10AM to 6PM West Hollywood Park 647 N. San Vicente Blvd. West Hollywood, CA FREE Parking at the Pacific Design Center at 8687 Melrose Ave. Poetry / Hybrid Stage Sponsored By House of Blues Sunset Strip MARK DOTY READING 4:50PM-5:10PM JIM ARNOLD READING 5:10PM-5:25PM CATHERINE DALY READING 5:25PM-5:40PM -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Sep 20 11:55:18 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY -- Deborah Ager, Eric Amling, Bill Freind, Laura Hinton, Janet Holmes & Debrah Morkun! Message-ID: <889654.9615.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Stain of Poetry presents Friday, September 24th ? 7:00pm - 9:00pm Our first fall reading blows into town on the wings of Debrah, Deborah, Laura, Janet, Bill & Eric! Don't miss them. We won't. Who: Deborah Ager, Eric Amling, Bill Freind, Laura Hinton, Janet Holmes & Debrah Morkun! Deborah Ager's first book, Midnight Voices, was published in 2009. Her poems appear in Best New Poets 2006, The Bloomsbury Review, New England Review, The Georgia Review, Quarterly West and New South. She's received fellowships from the Mid Atlantic Arts Foundation, the MacDowell Colony, and the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and she received a Walter E. Dakin Fellowship to the Sewanee Writers' Conference. She is founding editor of 32 Poems Magazine. Many poems first appearing in 32 Poems have been honored in the Best American Poetry and Best New Poets anthologies and on Verse Daily and Poetry Daily. ~ Eric Amling is the author of several chapbooks including TWIN VAPOR (Human Hair & Co.), SPLIT LEVEL IGLOO (Human Hair & Co.), and the most recent NINE LIVE TWO-HEADED ANIMALS (Greying Ghost Press). His illustrations and books can be found at www.humanhairandco.org ~ Bill Freind is the author of American Field Couches (BlazeVox, 2008) and An Anthology (housepress, 2000); he is also editing a collection of essays on Araki Yasusada that is forthcoming from Shearsman. He lives near an abandoned golf course in South Jersey. ~ Laura Hinton is the author of a poetry book, Sisyphus My Love (To Record a Dream in a Bathtub) (BlazeVox), and a critical book, The Perverse Gaze of Sympathy: Sadomasochistic Sentiments from Clarissa to Rescue 911 (SUNY Press). She is also the co-editor of We Who Love to Be Astonished: Experimental Women?s Writing and Performance Poetics (University of Alabama Press). She has edited three special sections for the online journal How2, including the current feature, ?Reading Carla Harryman.? She is now at work (co-editor) of a special issue in Postmodern Culture on poet?s theater, as well as a book on women?s hybrid poetry and the arts. She is a Professor of English at the City College of New York. In New York City she edits a chapbook series, Mermaid Tenement Press, and comments on feminism and the hybrid arts at her blog site ?Chant de la Sirene? (www.chantdelasirene.com). ~ Janet Holmes is author of five books of poetry, most recently The ms of my kin (Shearsman) and F2F (U of Notre Dame Pr). She is also director and editor of Ahsahta Press, a 35-year-old all-poetry press based at Boise State University, and professor of English there in the MFA Program in Creative Writing. ~ Debrah Morkun lives in Philadelphia, where she is the founding member of The New Philadelphia Poets, a group committed to expanding the spaces for poetry in Philadelphia. Her first full-length book, Projection Machine, was released by BlazeVox Books April 2010. View some of her work at www.debrahmorkun.com. at Goodbye Blue Monday 1087 Broadway (corner of Dodworth St) Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave or J train to Kosciusko St ~ Hosted by Amy King, Ana Bo?i?evi? et al http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ ******** Esque + http://www.esquemag.com Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 15:32:19 2010 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:32:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] THIS FRIDAY -- Deborah Ager, Eric Amling, Bill Freind, Laura Hinton, Janet Holmes & Debrah Morkun! In-Reply-To: <889654.9615.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <889654.9615.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hi noted with hilarious hope-mst On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 8:55 AM, amy king wrote: > Stain of Poetry presents > > Friday, September 24th ? 7:00pm - 9:00pm > > > Our first fall reading blows into town on the wings of Debrah, Deborah, > Laura, Janet, Bill & Eric! Don't miss them. We won't. > > > Who: Deborah Ager, Eric Amling, Bill Freind, Laura Hinton, Janet Holmes & > Debrah Morkun! > > > Deborah Ager's first book, Midnight Voices, was published in 2009. > Her poems appear in Best New Poets 2006, The Bloomsbury Review, New > England Review, The Georgia Review, Quarterly West and New South. > She's received fellowships from the Mid Atlantic Arts Foundation, the > MacDowell Colony, and the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and > she received a Walter E. Dakin Fellowship to the Sewanee Writers' > Conference. She is founding editor of 32 Poems Magazine. Many poems > first appearing in 32 Poems have been honored in the Best American > Poetry and Best New Poets anthologies and on Verse Daily and Poetry > Daily. > > ~ > > Eric Amling is the author of several chapbooks including TWIN VAPOR > (Human Hair & Co.), SPLIT LEVEL IGLOO (Human Hair & Co.), and the most > recent NINE LIVE TWO-HEADED ANIMALS (Greying Ghost Press). His > illustrations and books can be found at www.humanhairandco.org > > ~ > > Bill Freind is the author of American Field Couches (BlazeVox, 2008) > and An Anthology (housepress, 2000); he is also editing a collection > of essays on Araki Yasusada that is forthcoming from Shearsman. He > lives near an abandoned golf course in South Jersey. > > ~ > > Laura Hinton is the author of a poetry book, Sisyphus My Love (To > Record a Dream in a Bathtub) (BlazeVox), and a critical book, The > Perverse Gaze of Sympathy: Sadomasochistic Sentiments from Clarissa to > Rescue 911 (SUNY Press). She is also the co-editor of We Who Love to > Be Astonished: Experimental Women?s Writing and Performance Poetics > (University of Alabama Press). She has edited three special sections > for the online journal How2, including the current feature, ?Reading > Carla Harryman.? She is now at work (co-editor) of a special issue in > Postmodern Culture on poet?s theater, as well as a book on women?s > hybrid poetry and the arts. She is a Professor of English at the City > College of New York. In New York City she edits a chapbook series, > Mermaid Tenement Press, and comments on feminism and the hybrid arts > at her blog site ?Chant de la Sirene? (www.chantdelasirene.com). > > ~ > > Janet Holmes is author of five books of poetry, most recently The ms > of my kin (Shearsman) and F2F (U of Notre Dame Pr). She is also > director and editor of Ahsahta Press, a 35-year-old all-poetry press > based at Boise State University, and professor of English there in the > MFA Program in Creative Writing. > > ~ > > Debrah Morkun lives in Philadelphia, where she is the founding member > of The New Philadelphia Poets, a group committed to expanding the > spaces for poetry in Philadelphia. Her first full-length book, > Projection Machine, was released by BlazeVox Books April 2010. View > some of her work at www.debrahmorkun.com. > > at > > Goodbye Blue Monday > > 1087 Broadway > (corner of Dodworth St) > Brooklyn, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 > > J M Z trains to Myrtle Ave > or J train to Kosciusko St > > ~ > > Hosted by Amy King, Ana Bo?i?evi? et al > > http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ > > > > ******** > Esque > + http://www.esquemag.com > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bontasaurus at yahoo.com Tue Sep 21 12:31:55 2010 From: bontasaurus at yahoo.com (Dave Bonta) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Konyves' latest thinking on videopoetry Message-ID: <540510.27959.qm@web30203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I got Tom Konyves to post his latest thoughts on videopoetry to the discussion blog associated with Moving Poems: http://discussion.movingpoems.com/185/a-brief-summary-of-videopoetry/ As many of you probably know, Tom is one of the pioneers of the genre and the guy who coined the word. In the last couple years he's broadened his formerly more exclusive definition of videopoetry to include a wider range of work, while still himself remaining firmly grounded in the experimental tradition, I think. (Comments are welcome, but please comment there rather than here so Tom will see it.) Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 06:35:49 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:35:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Karla Kelsey, Brian Teare--20% discount! In-Reply-To: <2032276845-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> References: <2032276845-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> Message-ID: Click to view this email in a browser Using Gmail Priority Inbox? Mark this message as Important! [image: Sept-Newsletter] Iteration Netsand Pleasureare now available at a discount for newsletter subscribers?only $14 each! The poems in Karla Kelsey's second book (the first was her Sawtooth-winning Knowledge, Forms, the Aviary) are, according to Publishers Weekly, "expansively Romantic in their tone and affect, but challenging in their construction." Read more about her newest book here. But purchase it hereat a 20% discount! Rachel Zucker calls Brian Teare's Pleasure "painfully good": "In these poems language fails. The form, the poem, paper, the lyric?even pain fails. And in this failure I am moved beyond words, through words, and brought back to pleasure, to freedom, to the perfect weather of true grief, to the spectacular disaster that is life." See more here . Get a 20% discount by purchasing it here ! Sawtooth 2011 News: Submission Manager + Paul Hoover Ahsahta Press has purchased CLMP's Submission Manager to use for the Sawtooth Poetry Prize competition starting in 2011, as well as for open submissions when regular reading periods resume in May 2013. Paul Hoover will be the judge for the Tenth Anniversary Sawtooth Poetry Prize competition, which runs January 1?March 1, 2011. Hoover is the author of eleven books of poetry including *Sonnet 56 *(2008), * Edge and Fold*(2006), *Poems in Spanish* (2005), which was nominated for the Bay Area Book Award; *Winter (Mirror)* (2002); *Rehearsal in Black* (2001); *Totem and Shadow: New & Selected Poems* (1999); *Viridian* (1997); and *The Novel: A Poem*(1990). He is editor of the anthology *Postmodern American Poetry* (W. W. Norton, 1994) and, with Maxine Chernoff, the annual literary magazine *New American Writing*. His collection of literary essays, *Fables of Representation*, was published in the Poets on Poetry series of University of Michigan Press in 2004. He teaches at San Francisco State University. Highlights from Ahsahta's Past Season [image: 9781934103104-sm]? Brenda Iijima's If Not Metamorphic received a starred review in Publishers Weekly. Julie Carr's 100 Notes on Violence and Kate Greenstreet's The Last 4 Things also received notice in that publication. ? ?Rachel Loden?s Dick of the Dead received nominations for the 2010 California Book Award and the 2010 PEN USA Literature Award in Poetry. ? Eight Ahsahta books were listed on the SPD Best-Seller List last season: Julie Carr, 100 Notes on Violence (three months); Sandra Doller, Chora; Kate Greenstreet, case sensitive (two months) and The Last 4 Things (two months); Brenda Iijima, If Not Metamorphic; Rachel Loden, Dick of the Dead; Heidi Lynn Staples, Dog Girl; and Susan Tichy, Gallowglass. ? The Press published its first book containing a DVD: Kate Greentsreet's The Last 4 Things. Readings by our Authors NOW THROUGH OCT. 3: Susan Tichy co-curates Call & Response, an exhibit of poet/artist collaborations at George Mason University. 123 Gallery, Johnson Center. Opening reception: Sept. 21, 4-6pm; artists & writers discussion: Sept. 22, 4:30-6:30pm. THURSDAY, SEPT. 23: Brian Teare: Reading at 4:30pm at The Poetry Center with Nathalie Stephens. HUM 512, 1600 Holloway Avenue, San Francisco, CA Kate Greenstreet: Reading at 7:30pm at Fall for the Book Festival with Don Bogen. Research 1, Room 163, George Mason University, 4400 University Drive, Fairfax, VA 22030.[image: KarlaNewsletter] FRIDAY, SEPT. 24: Karla Kelsey: Reading at 9pm at Mostly Books, 529 Bainbridge Street, Philadelphia, PA 19147-2207. [image at right: Karla Kelsey] MONDAY, SEPT. 27: Stephanie Strickland: Reading at 8pm at the Poetry Project with Pierre Joris, Eileen Myles, and others to launch the inaugural issue of Vlak. 131 E. 10th Street, New York, NY 10003. THURSDAY, SEPT. 30: Rachel Loden: Reading at 6pm in the Living Writers Reading Series at UC Santa Cruz, Humanities Lecture Hall. TUESDAY, OCT. 5: Julie Carr: Reading at University of Richmond. Details TBA. WEDNESDAY, OCT. 6: Rachel Loden: Reading at 4:30pm in the New Writing Series at UC San Diego, Visual Arts Performance Space. MONDAY, OCT. 11: Karla Kelsey: Reading at 7:30pm at Susquehanna University, Isaacs Auditorium, Selinsgrove, PA 17870. SATURDAY, OCT. 16: Kate Greenstreet: Reading at 7pm at Brickbat Books with James Belflower, Joe Hall, and Steven Karl, 709 S. Fourth Street, Philadelphia, PA 19147. THURSDAY, OCT. 21: Julie Carr: Reading at NYU. Details TBA. SUNDAY, OCT. 17: Karla Kelsey: Reading at 3pm for In Your Ear at the DC Arts Center, 2438 18th Street NW, Washington, DC 20009-2004. SATURDAY, OCT. 30: Julie Carr: Reading at 7pm for the Academy of American Poets publication launch of American Poet, part of the Poets Forum. Wollman Hall, The New School, 66 West 12th Street. FRIDAY, NOV. 5: Rusty Morrison: Reading at 4:30pm for the Millikin Literary Festival, Millikin University, 1184 W. Main Street, Decatur, IL 62522. She will also give a craft lecture at 2:30pm, and lead a poetry workshop in the morning at 10am. <#12b37b89572a7c7a_> Ahsahta News Susan Briante and Farid Matuk welcomed their baby, Gianna, on Sept. 4, 2010. Congratulations! Julie Carr's essay "What's American About American Poetry" is forthcoming in Jubilat. Her book Sarah: Of Fragments and Lines was published by Coffee House Press last month. Jodi Chilson was named managing editor of Ahsahta Press over the summer. If you were at AWP, you may rememb[image: ElizabethOnesie-Newsletter 5]er meeting her daughter, Elizabeth (pictured left), who was sporting distinctive toddler wear at the Ahsahta Press table. Jodi is a graduate of the MFA Program in Creative Writing at Boise State University. Noah Eli Gordon has an essay in the new collection from University of Iowa Press, Poets on Teaching: A Sourcebook, as well as an essay slated to appear next year in A Broken Thing: Poets on the Line, also from University of Iowa Press. His manuscript The Source was accepted for publication by Futurepoem Books, and will be published this February. Additionally, he has a 30-page excerpt from his nonfiction work-in-progress Dysgraphia forthcoming in the next issue of Verse. The latest issue of Denver Quarterly features an interview he conducted with Dawn Lundy Martin, and he was the subject of a recent interview for the arts journal Zing Magazine: ( http://www.zingmagazine.com/drupal/node/1274). Noah's next book with Ahsahta Press will be The New Brutalism, due out in January 2013. Kathleen Jesme's chapbook Meridian was named winner of the 2010 Tupelo Press Snowbound Chapbook Award. It was chosen by Patricia Fargnoli. Rusty Morrison's book After Urgency was named winner of Tupelo Press's Dorset Prize, selected by Jane Hirshfield. Heather Seller's memoir You Don't Look Like Anyone I Know(Penguin/Riverhead) will be released October 14th. Stephanie Strickland's slippingglimpse (from Zone : Zero) will appear in HERE NOW: The Anthology of Prose, Poetry, Visual, Found, E- & Other Hybrid Writings as Contemporary, Conceptual Art, edited by Steve Tomasula, to be published by The University of Alabama Press. There's Still Time to Subscribe! ------------------------------ Join Us on Facebook! [image: facebook1 2]If you?re on Facebook, search out the Ahsahta Press page and click ?Like? to become a friend of ours. You can keep up with events Ahsahta Press authors have, learn about new reviews, and generally stay abreast of what?s happening with the Press. <#12b37b89572a7c7a_> ------------------------------ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe ------------------------------ Ahsahta Press Boise State University 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1525 Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. [image: Non-Profits Email Free with VerticalResponse!] -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 07:03:47 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:03:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarded by Jim Andrews Message-ID: David Clarke has created a new work of net art called Sign After the X ( http://signafterthex.net ) in collaboration with Marina Roy and Graham Meisner. Sign After the X is structurally similar to some of Clark's earlier works such as A is for Apple (http://aisforapple.net ) and 88 Constellations for Wittgenstein ( http://88constellations.net ). The form of these works is one that Clark has been developing for some time now; A is for Apple, the first of them, was published in 2002. The nodes or chapters or sections of these hypermedia works are done in Flash. They're multimedia approaches to a subject. We hear a voice reading a text about Freud or Lacan or Wittgenstein or X (etc) while Clark's animated visuals improvise with the text--in the sense that the visuals explicate or explore or expand or riff on the text's meaning. Sign After the X is organized into five categories: Mind, Body, Land, Language, and Law. Each of these contains anywhere from four to thirty nodes/Flash works. The putative subject of Sign After the X is "the letter X and it's multiple meanings in our culture". And, yes, I can see that in some of the material presented. But it seems to me there's considerably more going on than that. For instance, in the 'Mind' section, we encounter about thirty hypermedia works, many of which are explanatory of or exploratory of Freud's ideas. Perhaps these are indeed related to X, but I don't know how. However, that is not a criticism; the hypermedia works are often compelling in their voiced text and almost always are interesting in their visual nature and workings. The connection with X is not obvious and might emerge with more exploration of other parts of the work, which is unusually large for a work of net art. Some of the hypermedia works are not so good. The reading of Coleridge's "Kubla Kahn", for instance. Particularly by the guy who normally reads those theorified texts. Yeesh. But many of them are fascinating and considerably more original than a bad reading of "Kubla Khan" accompanied with mild visuals. The interest of Clark's work, to me, is in his avoiding, for the most part, such cliches of digital literary production. His background is in visual art. The individual nodes are often very polished, and that which links them, and the resulting overall shape and semantic, thematic structure, are of great interest in these fascinating works by David Clark. I don't see anyone else exploring this sort of form in the same way Clark has been since 2002. If you find Sign After the X of interest, you should also check out his site http://chemicalpictures.net for other projects and writings. ja http://netartery.vispo.com http://vispo.com -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Thu Sep 23 04:33:17 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 04:33:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Patricia Brody re WOMPO In-Reply-To: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <282823.76735.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Amy, I have just checked the WOMPO site to find you are the moderator for the LIST! I didn't realize this as I joined so long ago and realized vaguely Annie Finch was no longer involved but consider poetic dementia , most lyric but not organized as my excuse??? MEANWHILE I have not received my WOMPO daily digest since September 7. Can you tell me how to come back to WOMPO? Many thanks, Patricia Brody On Sep 9, 2010, at 1:58 PM, amy king wrote: > Today, VIDA (http://vidaweb.org/) responds to recent discussions regarding > publishing practices and numbers on Slate > -- http://scribe.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/more-troubling-data-about-women-writers > > > Please share the article and draw attention to the disparities / these queries. > Stay tuned for more articles to appear in mainstream venues. > > Thanks much, > > Amy > > > > > > > -- > ********* > Now That's WAC > + http://wearechampion.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-king.html > > Nepotism? > + http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/08/amy-kings-slaves-to-do-these-things.html > > > > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Thu Sep 23 04:44:54 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 04:44:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Karla Kelsey, Brian Teare--20% discount! In-Reply-To: References: <2032276845-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> Message-ID: <0F6A06DD-AD84-46F6-9DE7-7D14E4025C24@sprintmail.com> Can someone please help me . I was receiving NewPOETRY in what I think was digest form till September 1, mas o menos. Now I have been receiving dozens of posts a day from individuals on the list. THis is terribly hard to manage. I would greatly appreciate anyone's help in this matter and will gladly advise in life matters large and small in return! Meanwhile here is my workshop announcement which I tried to send earlier: I don't usually post. THank you again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BCRW POETRY Workshop Type: application/octet-stream Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 23 08:24:25 2010 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 05:24:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] UC Santa Cruz next Thursday, September 30 Message-ID: Please come and say hello if you're nearby, or tell a local friend. . . . The Living Writers Reading Series at UC Santa Cruz presents: A reading by Rachel Loden Thursday, September 30 6:00 pm UC Santa Cruz Humanities Lecture Hall 206 Info (UCSC Literature Dept.): (831) 459-4778 Rachel Loden is the author of Dick of the Dead (Ahsahta Press), a finalist for both the 2010 PEN USA Literary Award for Poetry and the California Book Award. It was also one of the three most-cited books in Attention Span 2009 ("a collectively-drawn map of the field"), landing on lists by Rae Armantrout and others. The Washington Post's "Poet's Choice" column featured a poem from the book and it has been called "oddly sublime" and "intoxicating" by the Poetry Project Newsletter and "expansive and whimsical" by the Brooklyn Rail. Loden's first book, Hotel Imperium (Georgia), won the Contemporary Poetry Series competition and was selected as one of the ten best poetry books of the year by the San Francisco Chronicle, which called it "quirky and beguiling." It was also short-listed for the Northern California Book Award. Loden has published four chapbooks, including The Last Campaign (which won the Hudson Valley Writers' Center chapbook competition) and The Richard Nixon Snow Globe (Wild Honey Press). Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in New American Writing, Lana Turner: A Journal of Poetry and Opinion, two editions of the Best American Poetry series, Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry, and many other magazines and anthologies. Loden's microplay, "A Quaker Meeting in Yorba Linda," was performed in New York as part of Plays on Words: A Poets Theater Festival curated by Tony Torn, Lee Ann Brown and Corina Copp. She is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize, a Fellowship in Poetry from the California Arts Council, an &NOW Award, and a grant from the Fund for Poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Sep 23 09:24:38 2010 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 06:24:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ron Slate (USA) and Christopher Mlalazi (Zimbabwe) to co-feature at Sacramento Poetry Center Message-ID: <430E71B1EF479E419F77C6B0E605BBA13C0E6DBE61@lrccd-exch08.LRCCD.ad.losrios.edu> October 11 is a big day at the Sacramento Poetry Center. We will host Christopher Mlalazi begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting and Ron Slate. Mlalazi will be traveling from Pacific Palisades, California, and Slate from Milton, Massachusetts. They will read at 7:30 pm. Click the link for more details about the poets: http://vasigauke.blogspot.com/2010/09/spc-to-feature-zimbabwean-writer.html Also Note: Reading slot are available for 2011; contact me is you would like to come to Sacramento. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson [halvard at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 10:44 AM To: NewPoetry List Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Europeana Looks good. Here's the portal url: http://www.europeana.eu/portal/ Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 Tango Bouquet https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en Theory of Harmony https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf Rapsodie espagnole https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf Guide to the Tokyo Subway http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 The Sonnet Project https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf G(e)nome http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf Winter Journey http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html Eclipse http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html The Dance of the Red Swan http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html Transparencies & Projections http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: On Europeana: Oscar Wilde's Picture of Dorian Grey, the first book from Charles Dickens, Pickwick Papers and Baudelaire's book of French poetry, Les Fleurs Du Mal are some of the more well known titles on Europeana. From Italy comes the writing of Casanova - the 18th century character famous for his adventurous lifestyle and love affairs - and Niccolo Machiavelli, a Renaissance philosopher. On a more practical note, both Gardening For Ladies and a Garden Almanac from the 1800s offer tips on growing the perfect vegetables, while historians and family researchers may enjoy reading diaries and letters from the First World War. -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 23 14:24:19 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] TOMORROW: Deborah Ager, Eric Amling, Laura Hinton, Janet Holmes, Filip Marinovich & Debrah Morkun! Message-ID: <667029.7777.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Stain of Poetry SEPTEMBER 24, FRIDAY ~ DEBORAH AGER, ERIC AMLING, LAURA HINTON, JANET HOLMES, FILIP MARINOVICH & DEBRAH MORKUN! 7 PM @ GOODBYE BLUE MONDAY - BUSHWICK, BROOKLYN WITH DEBORAH AGER's first book, MIDNIGHT VOICES, was published in 2009. Her poems appear in BEST NEW POETS 2006, THE BLOOMSBURY REVIEW, NEW ENGLAND REVIEW, THE GEORGIA REVIEW, QUARTERLY WEST andNEW SOUTH. She's received fellowships from the Mid Atlantic Arts Foundation, the MacDowell Colony, and the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and she received a Walter E. Dakin Fellowship to the Sewanee Writers' Conference. She is founding editor of 32 POEMS MAGAZINE. Many poems first appearing in 32 POEMS have been honored in the BEST AMERICAN POETRY and BEST NEW POETSanthologies and on VERSE DAILY and POETRY DAILY. ~ ERIC AMLING is the author of several chapbooks including TWIN VAPOR (Human Hair & Co.), SPLIT LEVEL IGLOO (Human Hair & Co.), and the most recent NINE LIVE TWO-HEADED ANIMALS (Greying Ghost Press). His illustrations and books can be found at WWW.HUMANHAIRANDCO.ORG ~ LAURA HINTON is the author of a poetry book, SISYPHUS MY LOVE (TO RECORD A DREAM IN A BATHTUB) (BlazeVox), and a critical book, THE PERVERSE GAZE OF SYMPATHY: SADOMASOCHISTIC SENTIMENTS FROMClarissa TO Rescue 911 (SUNY Press). She is also the co-editor of WE WHO LOVE TO BE ASTONISHED: EXPERIMENTAL WOMEN'S WRITING AND PERFORMANCE POETICS (University of Alabama Press). She has edited three special sections for the online journal HOW2, including the current feature, "Reading Carla Harryman." She is now at work (co-editor) of a special issue in Postmodern Culture on poet's theater, as well as a book on women's hybrid poetry and the arts. She is a Professor of English at the City College of New York. In New York City she edits a chapbook series, Mermaid Tenement Press, and comments on feminism and the hybrid arts at her blog site "Chant de la Sirene" (WWW.CHANTDELASIRENE.COM). ~ JANET HOLMES is author of five books of poetry, most recently THE MS OF MY KIN (Shearsman) and F2F (U of Notre Dame Pr). She is also director and editor of Ahsahta Press, a 35-year-old all-poetry press based at Boise State University, and professor of English there in the MFA Program in Creative Writing. ~ FILIP MARINOVICH is the author of ZERO READERSHIP (Ugly Duckling Presse 2008) and of the forthcoming AND IF YOU DON'T GO CRAZY I'LL MEET YOU HERE TOMORROW (Ugly Duckling Presse 2011). He is a poet living in New York City. ~ DEBRAH MORKUN lives in Philadelphia, where she is the founding member of The New Philadelphia Poets, a group committed to expanding the spaces for poetry in Philadelphia. Her first full-length book,PROJECTION MACHINE, was released by BlazeVox Books April 2010. View some of her work at WWW.DEBRAHMORKUN.COM. AT GOODBYE BLUE MONDAY 1087 BROADWAY (CORNER OF DODWORTH ST) BROOKLYN, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343 J M Z TRAINS TO MYRTLE AVE OR J TRAIN TO KOSCIUSKO ST ~ Hosted by Amy King, Ana Bo?i?evi? et al ~ http://stainofpoetry.com/ -- ********* + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Sep 23 14:27:14 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 13:27:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry Message-ID: One of my favorite contemporary poets has edited this year's BAP. Can't wait to see it. Links in the paste below probably won't work unless you go to the BAP blog site--address below. Sneak Peek: The Best American Poetry 2010 >From Guest Editor Amy Gerstler's introduction: A word about taste. When I began this yearlong process of, to quote the late great David Foster Wallace, "deciderization," I was determined to do my best to represent the entire range of American poetry at the present time. There would be poems of every school, persuasion, and methodology included! I would read from sea to shining sea to find them! Looking back through the anthology as it stands now, I am once again whacked in the head by what I realized not very far into the process: that I could no more escape my own proclivities, preferences, and tastes when editing this book than I can when writing my own poems. In a way, working on the anthology turned out to be more akin to writing a poem than I would ever have guessed. Themes, modes, and ideas I've long been obsessed with: women's bodies and lives, sex, dogs, the devil, the dead, lists, drugs (psychotropic and otherwise), disease, epistolary literature, prayers, coming of age, dregs, graveyards, ghosts, religion, insanity, love, animals, drunkenness, mordant wit and other pet topics long resident in the pest house of my head make multiple appearances here. Sometimes during the process of assembling the anthology I got very lost and overwhelmed, as I often do when writing, it felt almost as though the book began to exert a burgeoning will of its own, with its own hungers, tidal pulls, quirks, and requirements, just as it sometimes feels when a poem I am wrestling with is taking shape . . . from The Best American Poetry 2010. Buy a copy and read the full intro plus David Lehman's forward and 75 wonderful poems chosen by Amy Gerstler. And join Amy tonight, at the Best American Poetry 2010 launch reading. Details here. -- http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 23 14:33:33 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Soda Series #3 -- Sunday, September 26th @ 7pm -- A conversation with: Paula Bomer, Sasha Fletcher, Amy King and Eugene Lim Message-ID: <548711.92725.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> A conversation with: Paula Bomer, Sasha Fletcher, Amy King and Eugene Lim Paula Bomer is the author of the forthcoming story collection Baby and Other Stories (Word Riot Press, December 2010). Her fiction has appeared in Open City, The New York Tyrant, The Mississippi Review, Fiction and elsewhere. She?s the co-publisher at Artistically Declined Press and the supervising editor of the literary journal, Sententia.? Sasha Fletcher is the author of the novella WHEN ALL OUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED MARCHING BANDS WILL FILL THE STREETS AND WE WILL NOT HEAR THEM BECAUSE WE WILL BE UPSTAIRS IN THE CLOUDS [ml press 2010]. He is an MFA candidate in Poetry at Columbia University in the city of New York. Amy King?s latest book is Slaves to Do These Things(Blazevox) and forthcoming I Want to Make You Safe (Litmus Press). King moderates the Poetics List (SUNY-Buffalo/University of Pennsylvania) and the Women?s Poetry Listserv (WOMPO). She also teaches English and Creative Writing at SUNY Nassau Community College. She is currently preparing a book of interviews with the poet, Ron Padgett. She co-edits two magazines: Esque (http://www.esquemag.com/) and Poets for Living Waters (http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/). For more, visithttp://amyking.org Eugene Lim is author of Fog & Car and co-editor of The Harp & Altar Anthology. His fiction has appeared or is forthcoming in the Brooklyn Rail, Sleepingfish, elimae, No Colony, the mlp anthology [First Year], and The Denver Quarterly. SODA SERIES is a bi-monthly conversation between four different writers, hosted by Greg Gerke and John Dermot Woods. * Where Soda Bar in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn. 629 Vanderbilt Ave. View Map Here http://sodaseries.com/ Nearest Transit: 7th Ave (Q, B) Grand Army Plaza (2, 3) Clinton-Washington Aves (C) Parking: Street Accepts Credit Cards: Yes ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 16:44:34 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 22:44:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Karla Kelsey, Brian Teare--20% discount! In-Reply-To: <0F6A06DD-AD84-46F6-9DE7-7D14E4025C24@sprintmail.com> References: <2032276845-anny.ballardini=gmail.com@mail.vresp.com> <0F6A06DD-AD84-46F6-9DE7-7D14E4025C24@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: Tom, it is not too easy, in the sense that it might take you up to five minutes, but if you go here: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry you should be able to reset your preferences and receive the digest again. Best wishes, Anny On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Tom Kostro wrote: > > Can someone please help me . I was receiving NewPOETRY in what I think was > digest form till September 1, mas o menos. > > Now I have been receiving dozens of posts a day from individuals on the > list. > > THis is terribly hard to manage. > > > I would greatly appreciate anyone's help in this matter and will gladly > advise in life matters large and small in return! > > Meanwhile here is my workshop announcement which I tried to send earlier: > I don't usually post. > > THank you again. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 20:12:14 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:12:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those are pretty much my themes. On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:27 PM, David Graham wrote: > One of my favorite contemporary poets has edited this year's BAP. Can't > wait to see it. > > Links in the paste below probably won't work unless you go to the BAP blog > site--address below. > > > > *Sneak Peek: The Best American Poetry 2010 > * > From Guest Editor Amy Gerstler's introduction: > > A word about taste. When I began this yearlong process of, to quote the > late great David Foster Wallace, "deciderization," I was determined to do my > best to represent the entire range of American poetry at the present time. > There would be poems of every school, persuasion, and methodology included! > I would read from sea to shining sea to find them! Looking back through > the anthology as it stands now, I am once again whacked in the head by what > I realized not very far into the process: that I could no more escape my > own proclivities, preferences, and tastes when editing this book than I can > when writing my own poems. > > In a way, working on the anthology turned out to be more akin to writing a > poem than I would ever have guessed. Themes, modes, and ideas I've long > been obsessed with: women's bodies and lives, sex, dogs, the devil, the > dead, lists, drugs (psychotropic and otherwise), disease, epistolary > literature, prayers, coming of age, dregs, graveyards, ghosts, religion, > insanity, love, animals, drunkenness, mordant wit and other pet topics long > resident in the pest house of my head make multiple appearances here. > Sometimes during the process of assembling the anthology I got very lost > and overwhelmed, as I often do when writing, it felt almost as though the > book began to exert a burgeoning will of its own, with its own hungers, > tidal pulls, quirks, and requirements, just as it sometimes feels when a > poem I am wrestling with is taking shape . . . > > from The Best American Poetry 2010*. Buy a c*opy and read the full intro > plus David Lehman's forward and 75 wonderful poems chosen by Amy Gerstler. > > And join Amy tonight, at the Best American Poetry 2010 launch reading. > Deta*ils *here. > -- > http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/ > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 25 07:28:15 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 06:28:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Those are pretty much my themes. Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter varies. Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. --Bob From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 11:50:23 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 17:50:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yes, I agree with Bob! Where are you Tad? On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Those are pretty much my themes. >> > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on > editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing > poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, > Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, > mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that > there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so > only the subject matter varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 11:57:21 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:57:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: It certainly seems simplistic. One of the early stages of early adolescent personal reading is by subject matter. From there to author. From there to the world &c. But yes, Anny, it seems overly simplistic to me as well . . . unless of course they're twelve years old. (Then, in the scheme of things.) On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Yes, I agree with Bob! Where are you Tad? > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >>> Those are pretty much my themes. >>> >> Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on >> editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing >> poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, >> Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, >> mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that >> there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so >> only the subject matter varies. >> >> Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of >> late. >> >> --Bob >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 12:06:47 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 11:06:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In Memoriam David Markson Message-ID: In Memoriam David Markson No one is living in the Louvre. One never does solve what it is about watching fires. I bring this up just in passing. The name of the river at Hisarlik is Scamander. Shostakovich. Or Lucia di Lammermoor. While I was peeing, I thought about Lawrence of Arabia. Utrillo?s father may have been Renoir. Music is not my trade. (being several sentences from his Wittenstein?s Mistress, slightly altered or not at all) Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sat Sep 25 13:21:21 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:21:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: By twelve, and earlier, I was reading the anthologies my parents had around the house, none of which were organized bt subject. Though there's nothing wrong with say a baseball anthology. Problem is, only poets laureate feel obliged to write within topics--one's encounter with world self and language tend to be more complex. Best, Mark At 11:57 AM 9/25/2010, you wrote: >It certainly seems simplistic. One of the early >stages of early adolescent personal reading is >by subject matter. From there to author. From >there to the world &c. But yes, Anny, it seems >overly simplistic to me as well . . . unless of >course they're twelve years old. (Then, in the scheme of things.) > >On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Anny >Ballardini <anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: >Yes, I agree with Bob! Where are you Tad? > >On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Bob Grumman ><bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >Those are pretty much my themes. > >Am I the only New-Poetry participant who >automatically looks down on editors and critics >who think in terms of subject matter when >discussing poetry? It seems to me like >someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne >and Rubens were like by telling you that they >depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat women. I >think my problem is with the implication that >there's only one significant way of doing >poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter varies. > >Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! >Friedrich Nietzsche > >? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >Giovenale > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 14:00:17 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 20:00:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Feminist Lesbian Writer Jill Johnston Dies at 81 Message-ID: http://www.shewired.com/Article.cfm?ID=25787 -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 14:01:59 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 20:01:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] In Memoriam David Markson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > In Memoriam David Markson > > No one is living in the Louvre. > One never does solve what it is about watching fires. > I bring this up just in passing. > The name of the river at Hisarlik is Scamander. > Shostakovich. Or Lucia di Lammermoor. > While I was peeing, I thought about Lawrence of Arabia. > Utrillo?s father may have been Renoir. > Music is not my trade. > > > (being several sentences from his Wittenstein?s Mistress, slightly > altered or not at all) > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Sep 25 14:18:14 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:18:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <1F916BC8-25BF-4895-8205-49F9732EBCCC@ripon.edu> One problem I have with this line of argument is the fact that "the mainstream" has long included critical discussions of technique along with theme. Anyone remember the New Formalists? So I don't recognize this particular either/or, nor do I see how Gerstler announcing some themes she likes means that she is uninterested in technique. Another one of my problems is with the notion that "the mainstream" is just "one way." An unduly aerial view always obscures the most interesting distinctions. If when you look at Rubens, the best you can do as critic is to announce that he paints fat women, then the problem is not with analyzing theme but with seeing themes reductively. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 25, 2010, at 6:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> Those are pretty much my themes. > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Sep 25 10:55:13 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 09:55:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: One problem I have with this line of argument is the fact that "the mainstream" has long included critical discussions of technique along with theme. Anyone remember the New Formalists? So I don't recognize this particular either/or, nor do I see how Gerstler announcing some themes she likes means that she is uninterested in technique. Another one of my problems is with the notion that "the mainstream" is just "one way." An unduly aerial view always obscures the most interesting distinctions. If when you look at Rubens, the best you can do as critic is to announce that he paints fat women, then the problem is not with analyzing theme but with seeing themes reductively. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 25, 2010, at 6:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> Those are pretty much my themes. > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 15:00:28 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:00:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I'm inclined to agree with you as regards to themes in mainstream poetry, but there's much more to it. In non-mainstream poetry, I often feel too little attention is given to content, to meaning. In mainstream poetry, there's very little attention paid to aesthetic sophistication, which I think it sort of an elephant in the room in poetry right now -- that some poets are shopping at The Gap for jeans and readers who haven't ever been to The Gap might not realize it In "new formalism" I think there's a nice ongoing discussion about form and content fit (the risk being the clever rather than the true), and Ron Silliman at least seems to have tried with new form and new sentence, but my sense is that among the conceptualisms and projects and processes there is too little discussion of THE RESULT and evaluations therein based on questions of purpose, necessity, appropriateness/diction, depth/scope/breadth, specificity... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 15:10:34 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:10:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I would like to say that I agreed with Bob on the fact that Tad hasn't been posting much... With Obododimma Oha, I edited two thematic anthologies, besides other thematic collections. I have no problems with themes, as a matter of fact, I enjoy the variety of styles developed within the narrow boundaries of a prefixed concept. On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > I'm inclined to agree with you as regards to themes in mainstream > poetry, but there's much more to it. > > In non-mainstream poetry, I often feel too little attention is given > to content, to meaning. In mainstream poetry, there's very little > attention paid to aesthetic sophistication, which I think it sort of > an elephant in the room in poetry right now -- that some poets are > shopping at The Gap for jeans and readers who haven't ever been to The > Gap might not realize it > > In "new formalism" I think there's a nice ongoing discussion about > form and content fit (the risk being the clever rather than the true), > and Ron Silliman at least seems to have tried with new form and new > sentence, but my sense is that among the conceptualisms and projects > and processes there is too little discussion of THE RESULT and > evaluations therein based on questions of purpose, necessity, > appropriateness/diction, depth/scope/breadth, specificity... > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sat Sep 25 15:58:49 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:58:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan re Heaney Message-ID: <8CD2B03349FF53E-75C-17BA5@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/books/review/Logan-t.html?src=me Ply the Pen By WILLIAM LOGAN Published: September 24, 2010 For a poet, life after the Nobel can be pottering, or bookkeeping, or simply keeping busy ? it?s rarely full of radical departures or stunning new poems. (Eliot called the prize a ?ticket to one?s own funeral,? and indeed it proved the funeral of his poetry.) Even pottering can be difficult when you are constantly in demand to judge this prize or sign that public letter, to give a blurb to old X or a recommendation to young Y. For a poet, all life can be a distraction from the siren call of the page. When you read that Seamus ?Heaney has a secretary to help him answer correspondence, you wish he had half a dozen, and perhaps a few armed guards. Yet apart from Pasternak, who was bullied by his government, no poet has ever turned down the poisoned chalice. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 25 17:10:44 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:10:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <1F916BC8-25BF-4895-8205-49F9732EBCCC@ripon.edu> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net> <1F916BC8-25BF-4895-8205-49F9732EBCCC@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4C9E6554.3030808@nut-n-but.net> On 9/25/2010 1:18 PM, David Graham wrote: > One problem I have with this line of argument is the fact that "the mainstream" has long included critical discussions of technique along with theme. I was talking about reports to New-Poetry, although I was also thinking about all the blurbs and reviews I've read of mainstream poetry that seem to say nothing about technique, and a lot about subject matter and the poet's angle of vision, etc. > Anyone remember the New Formalists? So I don't recognize this particular either/or, nor do I see how Gerstler announcing some themes she likes means that she is uninterested in technique. She says she at first thought she would try to "represent the entire range of American poetry at the present time" in her anthology. "There would be poems of every school, persuasion, and methodology included!" Then she tells us what she ended with: "Themes, modes, and ideas I've long been obsessed with: women's bodies and lives, sex, dogs, the devil, the dead, lists, drugs (psychotropic and otherwise), disease, epistolary literature, prayers, coming of age, dregs, graveyards, ghosts, religion, insanity, love, animals, drunkenness, mordant wit and other pet topics long resident in the pest house of my head make multiple appearances here." She never mentions technique. >>Another one of my problems is with the notion that "the mainstream" is just "one way." An unduly aerial view always obscures the most interesting distinctions. If when you look at Rubens, the best you can do as critic is to announce that he paints fat women, then the problem is not with analyzing theme but with seeing themes reductively. Fat women were one of his subjects. My obvious point was that in talking about the three painters I mentioned, what's important about them when compared to each other is not what they painted but how they painted. As for the mainstream as "one way," it of course is in the way that travel by car is one way compared to travel by bicycle although there are hundreds of ways you can travel by each. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 25 17:13:05 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:13:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> On 9/25/2010 2:10 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I would like to say that I agreed with Bob on the fact that Tad hasn't > been posting much... > With Obododimma Oha, I edited two thematic anthologies, besides other > thematic collections. I have no problems with themes, as a matter of > fact, I enjoy the variety of styles developed within the narrow > boundaries of a prefixed concept. Nothing wrong with themes. Unless you're speaking of the range of contemporary poetry and tell us that it goes from urban living to political comentary, and from cowboys to Scrabble. --Bob From halvard at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 17:24:20 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:24:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan re Heaney In-Reply-To: <8CD2B03349FF53E-75C-17BA5@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2B03349FF53E-75C-17BA5@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And, apparently, all Nobel winners somehow forget how to say No! Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 2:58 PM, wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/books/review/Logan-t.html?src=me > Ply the Pen > By WILLIAM LOGAN > Published: September 24, 2010 > > For a poet, life after the Nobel can be pottering, or bookkeeping, or > simply keeping busy ? it?s rarely full of radical departures or stunning new > poems. (Eliot called the prize a ?ticket to one?s own funeral,? and indeed > it proved the funeral of his poetry.) Even pottering can be difficult when > you are constantly in demand to judge this prize or sign that public letter, > to give a blurb to old X or a recommendation to young Y. For a poet, all > life can be a distraction from the siren call of the page. When you read > that Seamus ?Heaney has a secretary to help him answer correspondence, you > wish he had half a dozen, and perhaps a few armed guards. Yet apart from > Pasternak, who was bullied by his government, no poet has ever turned down > the poisoned chalice. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at blazevox.org Mon Sep 20 21:25:56 2010 From: editor at blazevox.org (BlazeVOX [books]) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] BlazeVOX [books] Presents Tom Clark's At the Fair Message-ID: <1103702712286.1102813637767.1530.1.26212505@scheduler> Having trouble viewing this email? Click here http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=helbncdab&v=001rBBS2uM5H3_L09Ge1el2aJtlRfBLwT3POPcCtf0VvqOrF5u0Ya9Lo14IrdwXc9wzxDfj7bKuKcg2EIljM3eWkuGPghNIO6FDbNBIP5JKeIGBZlGg6mZY_G9oQz1ekerY6mXmjEVQQeelMJutgu3sXaJIZ5hCeQdZ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At the Fair by Tom Clark now available! At the Fair by Tom Clark [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=helbncdab&et=1103702712286&s=1530&e=001M21NTSZaNuQsVePdRDcDO4Lnfl7Ny6NebdsJl8L0qMFqfs6Rm7Uj4o2UPgY_AQCigaz1e058DyAHi9GsbzVorytuHcPSLcAqT0ieoaxXyhrhjIMvE7U5E4A_N9g7z5O59xPyBVoF0yIKLkxFubh-5TEedPRN9tm7Did7V2ioeSWgJJATBnlTV0sM8-vxl3CseJqF-zLTKGxuxRxBMzNq-XfB3m1bLwlMs7771umwRwuVHqa87qS320cRXfhPBAz3] At the Fair by Tom Clark I've known and read Tom Clark for almost half-a-century as a master of many genres: a writer of plays, biographies, novels; as an editor and critic - but always foremost, as a poet. At the Fairgives glimpses of this poet peering through the eyes of his reflection in the mirror of time and reporting on the memories of that image. Part autobiography of the author in shards; part philosophy of atmosphere and thought; part natural history of air, land and water; part defense of the local; part the literate writer at work, translating, being distracted by the logic and beauty of language: this book, which I read straight through, is a tribute to a lifelong addiction: a mutable one-handed keep-awake smack in the forest of loss. One's hat is raised as observation passes. -Tom Raworth Remembering his first glimmers of vocation as a boy in power-charged mid-century Chicago, Tom Clark has given us some of the most beautiful American Poems that I know. At the Fair is the work of a living master. -Aram Saroyan Not nostalgia transports us here, but the sweet pulse of "vanished ephemerae", love of the Voyage, the illumination, and "throbbing rituals" of a life lived always inside poetry. Tom Clark's prodigious archive of memory trembles on the edge of a teetering universe, calls us back toward the imagination of Reverdy, Vallejo, Ungaretti as witness to the power and thrust and ethos of language. "The universe is strange, the universe is dangerous, the universe doesn't answer the phone." Indeed. But Clark does answer here for all us dreamers. -Anne Waldman I read At the Fairdriving through the vertiginous rock castles of Utah on the way to Moab, and it hit me like a gong in perfect synch with the incredible landscape. Memory, time, and the suffering of puny humans who resonate nonetheless with beauty, are indelible in this work; it is majestic, profound, and smart. For a language-user that's about the utmost. You can read this in a cave and you'll know grandeur. -Andrei Codrescu Doors swing open on this shock of light. Here you will experience scripts and mind-telegrams, shapely in nerve and essence, moving always, and moving on. A circus at the settlement's edge: with memory-movies, new songs, and travellers' tales. We are reminded of frontier days when poetry was the better politics, proud inside itself. As Tom Clark's fresh voice echoes, and re-echoes, so beautifully, in the head. Across oceans and continents from Mediterranean California. And back. Mind kites in marine haze. Streaks. Showers. "A theory of games is not the same thing as games," the poet says. Hitting on the precorporate is no retreat. Let this book happen. Its pleasures are subtle and true. -Iain Sinclair What a world. Every sinew in Tom Clark's verse-and-prose combine, taut and eloquent as can be, answers to a bevy of emergent occasion beyond the door, under the bed and in every phantom portfolio, whatsoever the unseen powers have slipped over gadzillion cubicles and the overextended imaginations of this our Earth. The poet's smooth lines and sudden-sprung fancy are the gentle observer's only comfort here. Large as that is, expect no closure as the page flips from "This is where we came in" to "So here we go." Go with Tom, boldly. -Bill Berkson "M'illumino / d'immenso," as Ungaretti wrote in Santa Maria La Longa on the 26th of June, 1917; "Morning arrives / Big Time // (Morning arrives / Wide Eyed)," as Tom Clark 'translates' it, in Berkeley, California, on the 12 of June, 2010. What a pleasure it was for me to read it that morning, posted there on his blog (http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) accompanied by an array of amazing photos - closeup of a "Peach Glow" water-lily just after rain; astronaut's view of an ash cloud from a volcanic eruption, Mt. Cleveland, Alaska; the Hubble Space Telescope's image of the Cone Nebula (seven light years long, 2,500 light years away); one final closeup of Red-eyed Tree Frog standing on a bright green leaf near Playa Jaco, Costa Rica. So now too what a pleasure to read this book, having seen it 'in pieces' each morning with the pictures that are here 'missing.' But if these words are all that remain of such an original work (words plus pictures), are they 'ruins' - Shelley's "shattered visage" around which "the lone and level sands stretch far away"? Yes, in one sense, because the poems are (as Tom says in a comment on the blog) "a mythic history of presence within the irretrievably lost"; but also no, since the words are still here, and in each present moment of reading invite us to imagine those now missing pictures along with the "disquietudes" of the world they look at and think about and feel, the one that "Just before sunrise... seems to wobble slightly on its axis." And so as Tom writes at the end of "Homecoming," "here we go." - Stephen Ratcliffe Tom Clark was born in Chicago in 1941 and educated at the University of Michigan, Cambridge University and the University of Essex. He worked variously as an editor (The Paris Review), critic (Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle) and biographer (lives of Damon Runyon, Jack Kerouac, Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, Edward Dorn), has written novels (Who is Sylvia?, The Exile of C?line, The Spell) and essays (ThePoetry Beat, Problems of Thought: Paradoxical Essays). His many collections of poetry have included Stones, Air, At Malibu, John's Heart, When Things Get Tough on Easy Street, Paradise Resisted, Disordered Ideas, Fractured Karma, Sleepwalker's Fate, Junkets on a Sad Planet: Scenes from the Life of John Keats, Like Real People, Empire of Skin, Light and Shade, The New World, Something in the Air and Feeling for the Ground. He lives in Berkeley, California with his wife and partner of forty-two years, Angelica Heinegg. BlazeVOX [books] BlazeVOX [books] [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=helbncdab&et=1103702712286&s=1530&e=001M21NTSZaNuQjvC2qzEk48mpKP60sugFfIYdovDbsAUtNlrLW3iGfB0ahbiDrZqC_bb2NyDDBO_oLJy-MVdvsIjsmhDQ38uHynMXTmG-wT_4=] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Buy it NOW Book Information: ? Paperback: 108 pages ? Binding: Perfect-Bound ? Publisher: BlazeVOX [books] ? ISBN: 9781935402961 $16 Buy it NOW [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=helbncdab&et=1103702712286&s=1530&e=001M21NTSZaNuQ0fdBT2TvdlIRzlsWOR1G_LxerjrWEzWcSA2IgNJ8JT899SGod4PLT77JFW9ZdP8eu2znb6eJbbUgfaCmtAs4DoEz58JFJzkCZmnYdNxx3U5i-YUOhY60fYASbmws7J2VQb5oMyABimE6kum5f9xXuyXPM51Yqn3__PNujN-eMlOxyBaz_2ythk9WE43RJLe9ZOerKbOQLfD30unQ4mis5aMqBSZ34wOYfPqRisREuBw==] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=helbncdab&m=1102813637767&ea=new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu&a=1103702712286 This email was sent to new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu by editor at blazevox.org. Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?llr=helbncdab&v=001z3OoPvvb5Bg0RjzGiMta_INzWNY3RzxF4Ee2b6VFXPcSdwzu89q2jQ%3D%3D&p=oo Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?llr=helbncdab&v=001z3OoPvvb5Bg0RjzGiMta_INzWNY3RzxF4Ee2b6VFXPcSdwzu89q2jQ%3D%3D&p=un Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com BlazeVOX [books] | 303 Bedford Ave | Buffalo | NY | 14216 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annsbrandon at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 23:38:28 2010 From: annsbrandon at gmail.com (Ann Brandon) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 23:38:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RHINO Poetry's New Website Accepts Electronic Submissions Message-ID: Please publish the news below about RHINO Poetry?s newly redesigned website, http://rhinopoetry.org/, which accepts electronic submissions. Thank you, Ann Brandon RHINO Webmistress annsbrandon at gmail.com (802) 728-9947 ***************** RHINO Poetry?s New Website Accepts Electronic Submissions RHINO Poetry announces the debut of its redesigned website, which allows the 30-year-old journal for the first time to accept electronic submissions. Its Founders? Prize saw an exponential increase in the number of contestants in late August, when the electronics submissions system went live. Winners of the Founders? Prize receive $300 for First Prize and $50 each for two Runners-up. The poems are published in RHINO Poetry 2011 and on the website. Often non-winning Founders? Prize submissions are also accepted for publication in the journal. The deadline for both the Prize and for submitting work for the RHINO 2011 issue is this Oct. 1. RHINO Poetry is an award-winning literary journal that annually features about 100 selections in mostly poetry, but also short-shorts (flash fiction), and translations in a perfect-bound journal. Around the Chicago, Ill., area, the editors also offer free workshops and a monthly reading series. For submission guidelines, poems, and the calendar of events, please visit the new website http://rhinopoetry.org/. # # # -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at pavementsaw.org Mon Sep 13 11:16:17 2010 From: info at pavementsaw.org (Pavement Saw Press) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] on gender and contests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <933849.66107.qm@web45604.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Identifying gender in book contests, or in overall publishing, does not necessarily reveal clear results. The idea for large publishers to equalize their overall poetry title lists through publishing more women started in the early to mid-nineties and made poetry manuscripts by women scarce. Who would want a book with us when university presses and some of the largest small presses (over $200,000 income yearly) had a need to look "balanced" and equitable through reverse practices? Our press loss three titles in that period to larger presses due to broken or unsigned contracts. As for contests, when a university economics student ran a study on our press overall in the early 2000s, they found there was a bit under a 2 1/2 to one ratio of men to women submitting to the contests for the press. I don't see how holding a press responsible for who submits as a reasonable act. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 From jforjames at aol.com Sat Sep 25 18:51:48 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 18:51:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> <4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> Isn't there a distinction between theme and subject? And that shorthand description you give hardly explains the range of subject possibities, which verges on the infinite. Even between subjects the space can between can be infinitely subdivided. I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than content...it's not as messy as content. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 5:13 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry On 9/25/2010 2:10 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I would like to say that I agreed with Bob on the fact that Tad hasn't > been posting much... > With Obododimma Oha, I edited two thematic anthologies, besides other > thematic collections. I have no problems with themes, as a matter of > fact, I enjoy the variety of styles developed within the narrow > boundaries of a prefixed concept. Nothing wrong with themes. Unless you're speaking of the range of contemporary poetry and tell us that it goes from urban living to political comentary, and from cowboys to Scrabble. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 25 21:12:50 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 20:12:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> On 9/25/2010 5:51 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Isn't there a distinction between theme and subject? I'd call themes just one of many kinds of subject matter. > And that shorthand description you give hardly explains the range of > subject possibities, which verges on the infinite. > Even between subjects the space can between can be infinitely subdivided. I'm not sure what your point is. > I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than > content...it's not as messy as content. > Finnegan It's much harder, though, to understand technique. And it's very easy to identify subject matter and say something about it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 26 09:15:55 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 08:15:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A proper BAP In-Reply-To: <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C9F478B.3020509@nut-n-but.net> Here's my blog entry for today regarding how I would edit a year's anthology of the "best" poems published that year. Feedback, as ever, welcome. Another year's anthology of "the best American Poetry" is about to hit the market. A brief discussion at New-Poetry about it got me thinking once again about the proper way to edit such a book. The groundwork, which should have been laid long ago, would be to list all the schools of contemporary American Poetry (and Canadian, since I consider American and Canadian culture one), as I've been trying to do for years--without great success because just about no one in poetry is willing to help me. Hence, if I were asked to oversee such an anthology, I would turn down the job unless I were chosen two years in advance. And given a good deal of money to hire researchers, as well as to support me for two years (which would only cost a few thousand a year). I'd hire a few young researchers (with no background in poetry to confuse them), spend a week with them telling them how to recognize poetry and what characteristics to look for in distinguishing one kind from another. Then I'd set them loose. Their specific job would be first to list the poetry magazines published during the previous twelve months. The anthology would consist of poems from periodicals only, as I forgot to mention--and as, I believe, the current "best" anthologies do. Including those published on the Internet. Job number two would be to sort the magazines into the eleven main categories of poetry my taxonomy presently recognizes (and which should not be controversial--conventional free verse, visual poetry, surrealistic poetry, etc.). Magazines with more than one kind of poetry would go into more than one slot. Magazines containing poetry whose classification my researchers were not able with confidence to determine would go into a twelfth category. These I would examine, and discuss with my work crew. Meanwhile I would issue announcements everywhere I could think of but principally the Internet calling for the names and descriptions of schools of poetry, offering a monetary award for any new one I was unaware of. I would be generous, and pay for any obviously good attempt whether I accepted the group of poets involved a school of poetry or not. I'd try to generate discussions, writing provocative posts about the project under many names. I feel 99.99% sure I could, within a year, have a list of every school of contemporary North American poetry, which I would define as any group of two or more poets doing similar work that I judged significantly unlike poetry outside the group. Some schools I'd have to divide into sub-schools. I'm thinking of the language poetry school, which consists, it seems to me, of three or more such sub-schools, each considerably different from the others. Ditto the visual poetry school. I'd rather have too many schools on my list than miss one. My guess would be that I and my helpers would find about fifty schools. I would place them in my taxonomy. (Just the thought of doing that excites me, as I suspect it would excite almost on one else in poetry.) Then I'd try to combine similar schools, my goal being to work with just twenty or fewer poetry groups. All the research done would enable me readily to find one or two editors who were expert in the school or schools of poetry their magazines preferred. I'd hire them to supply me with every poem in a magazine from the year the anthology would cover that they thought as good as any poems being published. With an asterisk next to any they thought genuinely belonged in the anthology. I would hope to be able to skim all the magazine, myself. In any case, I would add all the poems that jumped out at me. The only egalitarian rule I'd follow would be to make sure to have at least one poem from each of my twenty or fewer groups. Finally, I would cut my selections down to a hundred or so, perhaps asking for the opinion or others on the few I wasn't sure of. That would be it except for an introduction explaining and defending my procedure, and making the usually declaimer about the choices being, in the final analysis, subjective--but meaning it. From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 26 10:57:17 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 09:57:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] BlazeVOX [books] Presents Tom Clark's At the Fair In-Reply-To: <1103702712286.1102813637767.1530.1.26212505@scheduler> References: <1103702712286.1102813637767.1530.1.26212505@scheduler> Message-ID: <21185538-9F38-48FA-9078-D86C2E3E0FD2@ripon.edu> Is this book verse, prose, or both? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 20, 2010, at 8:25 PM, BlazeVOX [books] wrote: > Having trouble viewing this email? Click here > > At the Fair by Tom Clark now available! > > At the Fair > by Tom Clark > > I've known and read Tom Clark for almost half-a-century as a master of many genres: a writer of plays, biographies, novels; as an editor and critic - but always foremost, as a poet. At the Fair gives glimpses of this poet peering through the eyes of his reflection in the mirror of time and reporting on the memories of that image. Part autobiography of the author in shards; part philosophy of atmosphere and thought; part natural history of air, land and water; part defense of the local; part the literate writer at work, translating, being distracted by the logic and beauty of language: this book, which I read straight through, is a tribute to a lifelong addiction: a mutable one-handed keep-awake smack in the forest of loss. One's hat is raised as observation passes. > > -Tom Raworth > > > Remembering his first glimmers of vocation as a boy in power-charged mid-century Chicago, Tom Clark has given us some of the most beautiful American Poems that I know. At the Fair is the work of a living master. > > -Aram Saroyan > > > Not nostalgia transports us here, but the sweet pulse of "vanished ephemerae", love of the Voyage, the illumination, and "throbbing rituals" of a life lived always inside poetry. Tom Clark's prodigious archive of memory trembles on the edge of a teetering universe, calls us back toward the imagination of Reverdy, Vallejo, Ungaretti as witness to the power and thrust and ethos of language. "The universe is strange, the universe is dangerous, the universe doesn't answer the phone." Indeed. But Clark does answer here for all us dreamers. > > -Anne Waldman > > > I read At the Fair driving through the vertiginous rock castles of Utah on the way to Moab, and it hit me like a gong in perfect synch with the incredible landscape. Memory, time, and the suffering of puny humans who resonate nonetheless with beauty, are indelible in this work; it is majestic, profound, and smart. For a language-user that's about the utmost. You can read this in a cave and you'll know grandeur. > > -Andrei Codrescu > > > Doors swing open on this shock of light. Here you will experience scripts and mind-telegrams, shapely in nerve and essence, moving always, and moving on. A circus at the settlement's edge: with memory-movies, new songs, and travellers' tales. We are reminded of frontier days when poetry was the better politics, proud inside itself. As Tom Clark's fresh voice echoes, and re-echoes, so beautifully, in the head. Across oceans and continents from Mediterranean California. And back. Mind kites in marine haze. Streaks. Showers. > "A theory of games is not the same thing as games," the poet says. Hitting on the precorporate is no retreat. Let this book happen. Its pleasures are subtle and true. > > -Iain Sinclair > > > What a world. Every sinew in Tom Clark's verse-and-prose combine, taut and eloquent as can be, answers to a bevy of emergent occasion beyond the door, under the bed and in every phantom portfolio, whatsoever the unseen powers have slipped over gadzillion cubicles and the overextended imaginations of this our Earth. The poet's smooth lines and sudden-sprung fancy are the gentle observer's only comfort here. Large as that is, expect no closure as the page flips from "This is where we came in" to "So here we go." Go with Tom, boldly. > > -Bill Berkson > > > "M'illumino / d'immenso," as Ungaretti wrote in Santa Maria La Longa on the 26th of June, 1917; "Morning arrives / Big Time // (Morning arrives / Wide Eyed)," as Tom Clark 'translates' it, in Berkeley, California, on the 12 of June, 2010. What a pleasure it was for me to read it that morning, posted there on his blog (http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/) accompanied by an array of amazing photos - closeup of a "Peach Glow" water-lily just after rain; astronaut's view of an ash cloud from a volcanic eruption, Mt. Cleveland, Alaska; the Hubble Space Telescope's image of the Cone Nebula (seven light years long, 2,500 light years away); one final closeup of Red-eyed Tree Frog standing on a bright green leaf near Playa Jaco, Costa Rica. So now too what a pleasure to read this book, having seen it 'in pieces' each morning with the pictures that are here 'missing.' But if these words are all that remain of such an original work (words plus pictures), are they 'ruins' - Shelley's "shattered visage" around which "the lone and level sands stretch far away"? Yes, in one sense, because the poems are (as Tom says in a comment on the blog) "a mythic history of presence within the irretrievably lost"; but also no, since the words are still here, and in each present moment of reading invite us to imagine those now missing pictures along with the "disquietudes" of the world they look at and think about and feel, the one that "Just before sunrise... seems to wobble slightly on its axis." And so as Tom writes at the end of "Homecoming," "here we go." > > - Stephen Ratcliffe > > > > Tom Clark was born in Chicago in 1941 and educated at the University of Michigan, Cambridge University and the University of Essex. He worked variously as an editor (The Paris Review), critic (Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle) and biographer (lives of Damon Runyon, Jack Kerouac, Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, Edward Dorn), has written novels (Who is Sylvia?, The Exile of C?line, The Spell) and essays (The Poetry Beat, Problems of Thought: Paradoxical Essays). His many collections of poetry have included Stones, Air, At Malibu, John's Heart, When Things Get Tough on Easy Street, Paradise Resisted, Disordered Ideas, Fractured Karma, Sleepwalker's Fate, Junkets on a Sad Planet: Scenes from the Life of John Keats, Like Real People, Empire of Skin, Light and Shade, The New World, Something in the Air and Feeling for the Ground. He lives in Berkeley, California with his wife and partner of forty-two years, Angelica Heinegg. > > > > > BlazeVOX [books] > > > Buy it NOW > Book Information: > > ? Paperback: 108 pages > ? Binding: Perfect-Bound > ? Publisher: BlazeVOX [books] > ? ISBN: 9781935402961 > > $16 Buy it NOW > > > Forward email > > This email was sent to new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu by editor at blazevox.org. > Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe? | Privacy Policy. > Email Marketing by > > BlazeVOX [books] | 303 Bedford Ave | Buffalo | NY | 14216 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 26 15:14:15 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:14:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A translation of Avicenna's critique on Aristotle's Poetics Message-ID: <8CD2BC624DD56DC-E7C-29173@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> http://www.ibna.ir/vdcivuav.t1ar32lict.html He explained that in Poetics, Aristotle describes types of poetry and poetic imitation and analyzes them in terms of structure and application; he then said: "Muslim philosophers like Farabi and Avicenna, despite Aristotle, regard poetry as a logical device. In their opinion, poetry is a logical device, therefore, the last part of Avicenna's treatise "Shefa" is an elaboration of Aristotle's 'Poetics'. " Dadashi finally reminded: "The translation presented in this book by Avicenna is about how poetry is regarded as a figure of logic and thought in the world of Islam". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 26 15:36:25 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:36:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Would it have been better had some surviving works of ancient authors been lost? Message-ID: <8CD2BC93DBB951C-E7C-29469@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/sep/25/all-souls-fellows-general-paper But the key example is that holy grail of classical scholarship ? a holy grail because no one can agree whether it is lost or not ? the second book of Aristotle's Poetics (written in the mid fourth century BC). The first book of the Poetics deals with Aristotle's theory of tragedy (the famous discussion of pity, fear and catharsis). The second book, or so we glean from other references in Aristotle, brought the reader back to comedy and to that tricky problem of laughter. The usual scholarly line here is to lament that this work did not make it through the middle ages. Umberto Eco's novel The Name of the Rose ("spaghetti structuralism" according to Slavoj ?i?ek, but fun all the same) dramatised the disappearance of the last surviving copy: literally eaten as a subversive tract by a gloomy "agelastic" monk, before his whole monastery goes up in flames. And recently such leading scholars as Quentin Skinner have mourned its disappearance: if only we had Aristotle's essay on comedy, writes Skinner, we would understand ancient laughter. But has it disappeared? And what counts as disappearing? According to Richard Janko, valiantly reviving a (nearly lost) 19th-century theory, the weird little treatise "On Comedy" in a 10th-century manuscript (Tractatus Coislinianus, now in Paris, once on Mount Athos) is actually a summary of this lost work. So is it or isn't it? Scholarship has not gone with Janko. The essay in the Tractatus is a very mediocre little tract, and most likely ? so the orthodox view goes ? a jejune compendium of Aristotelian thought by a none-too-bright Byzantine monk. It includes, for example, some very plodding ideas of what makes an audience laugh ("silly dancing", is one prompt to laughter). But could we see it differently? According to Michael Silk (no admirer of the intellectual power of lost Aristotle) we might actually think that, in all its mediocrity, this mediocre work was a reasonable summary of some very mediocre Aristotle ? altogether not worth saving. Let's not lament its loss. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sun Sep 26 18:02:41 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <365241.58943.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> bla bla bla same old shit another day; too much much blather here talking about and not enough of. ________________________________ From: Catherine Daly To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, September 25, 2010 3:00:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry I'm inclined to agree with you as regards to themes in mainstream poetry, but there's much more to it. In non-mainstream poetry, I often feel too little attention is given to content, to meaning. In mainstream poetry, there's very little attention paid to aesthetic sophistication, which I think it sort of an elephant in the room in poetry right now -- that some poets are shopping at The Gap for jeans and readers who haven't ever been to The Gap might not realize it In "new formalism" I think there's a nice ongoing discussion about form and content fit (the risk being the clever rather than the true), and Ron Silliman at least seems to have tried with new form and new sentence, but my sense is that among the conceptualisms and projects and processes there is too little discussion of THE RESULT and evaluations therein based on questions of purpose, necessity, appropriateness/diction, depth/scope/breadth, specificity... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Sun Sep 26 18:03:10 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <1F916BC8-25BF-4895-8205-49F9732EBCCC@ripon.edu> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> <1F916BC8-25BF-4895-8205-49F9732EBCCC@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <757358.71429.qm@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> mainstream -another gruesome concept. ________________________________ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry List Sent: Sat, September 25, 2010 2:18:14 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry One problem I have with this line of argument is the fact that "the mainstream" has long included critical discussions of technique along with theme. Anyone remember the New Formalists? So I don't recognize this particular either/or, nor do I see how Gerstler announcing some themes she likes means that she is uninterested in technique. Another one of my problems is with the notion that "the mainstream" is just "one way." An unduly aerial view always obscures the most interesting distinctions. If when you look at Rubens, the best you can do as critic is to announce that he paints fat women, then the problem is not with analyzing theme but with seeing themes reductively. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 25, 2010, at 6:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> Those are pretty much my themes. > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on editors >and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing poetry? It >seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne and Rubens >were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat >women. I think my problem is with the implication that there's only one >significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter >varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 19:06:42 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:06:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob -- way to turn the thread back to what's wrong with mainstream poetry! Subject matter is part of it -- generally, I think, in terms of what one probably doesn't want to read about than what one does. But of course it's not the whole story. Saying one likes sea stories doesn't mean that one puts Conrad, Masefield, Forester and Captain Marryat all on the same level. On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Those are pretty much my themes. >> > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on > editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing > poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, > Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, > mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that > there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so > only the subject matter varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 26 20:24:33 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:24:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net> Message-ID: <4C9FE441.7040107@nut-n-but.net> On 9/26/2010 6:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Bob -- way to turn the thread back to what's wrong with mainstream poetry! Except--sorry, Mole--my subject was what's wrong with too many discussions of poetry, the fact that about all that is discussed is subject matter. I recall the latest go-round on Frost, his defenders reminding us that he treated Serious Subjects. > > Subject matter is part of it -- generally, I think, in terms of what > one probably doesn't want to read about than what one does. But of > course it's not the whole story. Saying one likes sea stories doesn't > mean that one puts Conrad, Masefield, Forester and Captain Marryat all > on the same level. Agreed. --Bob From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 26 19:58:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:58:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd man out; clipped from the BritPo list Message-ID: <8CD2BEDD0DAFEFF-E7C-2CD64@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:00:01 +0100 From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Poetry Anthologies, Canon Building and the Silencing of William Bronk I?ve just been re-reading the article ?Poetry Anthologies, Canon Building and the Silencing of William Bronk? by David Clippinger (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Clippinger%20essay.htm#_edn3) which has been on the Argotist site for several years. I?d forgotten what a brilliant article it is, and that attention should be drawn to it again, as I?m sure it would be informative to some people. Here is an excerpt that shows the behind-the-scenes manipulations that went on in the production of Donald Allen?s 'The New American Poetry': ?The rationale for Bronk?s omission from 'The New American Poetry' should be fairly obvious to those familiar with Allen?s famous anthology. First, Allen organized the anthology into five more or less geographic communities: Black Mountain, the San Francisco Renaissance, the Beats, the New York Poets, and a fifth group with ?no geographic definition,? although those poets tend to be affiliated with the San Francisco Renaissance more so than any other grouping. 16 Situated in Hudson Falls, New York, William Bronk is clearly not a geographic member of the Black Mountain group nor any of the others, although he published in the Black Mountain Review. The geographic structure of ?communities? of poets was established in September 1959 in an exchange of letters between Allen and Creeley, from which Allen adhered to Creeley?s suggestions for the sections?although Creeley suggests seven with a section dedicated to the ?Patriarchs? of the anthology (Zukofsky, Olson, Rexroth, and Duncan) and with the San Francisco Renaissance divided into an early and later period. Originally, Allen had conceived of the anthology as a more ?complete? literary history that would have included the ?first generation? of American poets who established the foundation for poets of The New American Poetry: William Carlos Williams, H.D., e.e. cummings, Marianne Moore, Ezra Pound, and Wallace Stevens, who would be followed by ?Rexroth, Patchen, and Zukofsky.? 17 In this schema, the poets of 'The New American Poetry' would constitute the ?third? generation of this tradition. Such a structure would contextualize the anthology and legitimize it within a poetic lineage that included the modern and high modern poets. The anthology, conceived along these historic lines, would present an alternative literary history with distinctive American roots as opposed to a British centered poetic tradition of New Poets of England and America. Charles Olson, though, quashed the idea of including the ?Patriarchs? section, remarking that, ?I wouldn?t myself add either of those two units: either the ?aunties? or the grandpas. If the thing we are now in is just in its own character, and there isn?t one of us who isn?t bound together in that way, than by any of those older connections. In fact those connections strike me as smudging the point; 1950 on. [sic throughout]? Allen says of Olson?s remark that ?That decided it for me; I would concentrate on the new poets . . .? In essence, Olson wished to divorce contemporary poetry from the ?old? and thereby valorize its ?newness.? An extended historical view might undermine the explicit agenda of proposing a ?fresh? image of poetry, which was clearly the task that Olson as well as other poets who played a large part in shaping the anthology had envisioned.? This excerpt reminds me of something I read about Olson in Libbie Rifkin's 'Career Moves'; that he was self-consciously trying to insinuate himslef into the US literary canon. ------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 26 20:10:46 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:10:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> <4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than content...it's not as messy as content. Finnegan It's much harder, though, to understand technique. And it's very easy to identify subject matter and say something about it. --Bob -- I think the content of the poem is where the psychological (emotional) and philosophical (ideational) elements of the poem reside. Technique can't hold a candle to those elements when in comes to difficulty and understanding. Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you can go look it up. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 26 18:15:57 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 17:15:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan re Heaney In-Reply-To: <8CD2B03349FF53E-75C-17BA5@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2B03349FF53E-75C-17BA5@Webmail-m113.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D15CB4E-4CA4-4898-A16C-D3DC047FEB6A@ripon.edu> An unusually even-tempered, fair review from Logan. I like the book, and Heaney's work, a good deal more than Logan does, predictably. But it's good to see him not just arching his brows and making snooty remarks calling attention to his own cleverness and superiority. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 25, 2010, at 2:58 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/books/review/Logan-t.html?src=me > Ply the Pen > By WILLIAM LOGAN > Published: September 24, 2010 > > For a poet, life after the Nobel can be pottering, or bookkeeping, or simply keeping busy ? it?s rarely full of radical departures or stunning new poems. (Eliot called the prize a ?ticket to one?s own funeral,? and indeed it proved the funeral of his poetry.) Even pottering can be difficult when you are constantly in demand to judge this prize or sign that public letter, to give a blurb to old X or a recommendation to young Y. For a poet, all life can be a distraction from the siren call of the page. When you read that Seamus Heaney has a secretary to help him answer correspondence, you wish he had half a dozen, and perhaps a few armed guards. Yet apart from Pasternak, who was bullied by his government, no poet has ever turned down the poisoned chalice. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 26 21:17:54 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:17:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knott on BAP, content, technique Message-ID: An entry from Bill Knott's blog that caught my eye in light of recent discussion of Gerstler, subject matter, & the recent Best American Poetry volume. This is from several months ago--not about Gerstler's book. ===================================== Thursday, July 29, 2010 style sty: more slop from the BAP shop * Another entry in the endless campaign to browbeat poets into making their poems inaccessible to the public at large, and to forgo content (content: saying things that people other than poets might actually be interested in), to sacrifice content in favor of style?? to minimize content and maximize style?? in order words, the same old elitist bullshit that makes most people hate poetry: http://blog.bestamericanpoetry.com/the_best_american_poetry/2010/07/criticisms-crisis-by-brian-henry.html .... The only fucking "crisis" most USAPO suffer from is their own snobbishness, their contempt for the public, their highbrow disdain for the common reader, and their hatred of poets who do appeal to the public, poets like Billy Collins, Jane Hirshfield, Mary Oliver etc, poets who have worked hard on providing not just "style" in their poems, but "content" as well?? which is why they are more popular with the bookbuying public than pompous purists like the author of this 'criticisms crisis' crap, who's repeating (don't they ever get tired of it) the same old foity-toity, the condescending creed that alienates so many readers who might really enjoy poetry if they weren't so intimidated and rebuffed by the obscuranting manneristic styles he urges poets to keep on favoring and featuring . . . * When I say "most USAPO" I don't exclude myself. I am not free of this curse despite my efforts to exorcise it . . . so just add "our" each time I condemn "their" behavior in the screed above. //// Posted by knott at 1:46 PM ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icon18_email.gif Type: image/gif Size: 164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jamestadrichards at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 21:24:51 2010 From: jamestadrichards at gmail.com (Tad Richards) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:24:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <4C9FE441.7040107@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9FE441.7040107@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Bob -- you didn't expect me to come back not being snarky, did you? On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/26/2010 6:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> Bob -- way to turn the thread back to what's wrong with mainstream poetry! >> > Except--sorry, Mole--my subject was what's wrong with too many discussions > of poetry, the fact that about all that is discussed is subject matter. I > recall the latest go-round on Frost, his defenders reminding us that he > treated Serious Subjects. > >> >> Subject matter is part of it -- generally, I think, in terms of what one >> probably doesn't want to read about than what one does. But of course it's >> not the whole story. Saying one likes sea stories doesn't mean that one puts >> Conrad, Masefield, Forester and Captain Marryat all on the same level. >> > Agreed. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 26 21:41:21 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:41:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: the opposite is also true -- that in "mainstream" poetry we see formal (particular lyrical) sophistication at the expense of its own philosophical adequacy -- brian turner's here, bullet a recent glaring case in point -- while in "non-mainstream" the formal wrangling that substance and weight and ethics resist, hence the wrangling -- joan retallack's procedural elegies / western civ cont'd a recent glaring case in point -- p.s. the form is the content (though it don't stop there neither) > From: Catherine Daly > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Sat, September 25, 2010 3:00:28 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry > > I'm inclined to agree with you as regards to themes in mainstream > poetry, but there's much more to it. > > In non-mainstream poetry, I often feel too little attention is given > to content, to meaning. In mainstream poetry, there's very little > attention paid to aesthetic sophistication, which I think it sort of > an elephant in the room in poetry right now -- that some poets are > shopping at The Gap for jeans and readers who haven't ever been to The > Gap might not realize it > > In "new formalism" I think there's a nice ongoing discussion about > form and content fit (the risk being the clever rather than the true), > and Ron Silliman at least seems to have tried with new form and new > sentence, but my sense is that among the conceptualisms and projects > and processes there is too little discussion of THE RESULT and > evaluations therein based on questions of purpose, necessity, > appropriateness/diction, depth/scope/breadth, specificity... > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Sun Sep 26 22:47:21 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 22:47:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> <4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> <4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Jeez, I hope "technique" isn't just a set of tools or recipes. Very difficult to separate whatever one thinks it is from what gets called content, unless one sets out to tell a story already told in a canned manner. Neither life nor thought nor poetry work that way for many of us. A poem happens in the moments, however many, of its writing, and any moment is more complex than "nature poem" or "love poem," etc. For starters, each impulse contains its opposite. Unless one decides, outside the poem, to censor the extraneous which, who knows, might actually be what the poem is "about," it's a lot messier than the straightforward categories that appeal to anthologists. Tho as an anthologist myself they have my sympathies--all the boundaries we need to erect so that the work can finally be done are artificial. I might as well say something about Bill Knott's rant. He's certainly right that there's a lot of obfuscation out there, but he might wish to remember that his white knights, Billy Collins, Jane Hirshfeld or Mary Oliver, don't have a whole lot of content, compared to, say, Olson, who helped revolutionize the way a lot of us think about the how and why of writing. But why would anyone from the winning side, "more popular with the bookbuying public," be so angry? Too much time at the Berry Farm? Best, Mark At 08:10 PM 9/26/2010, you wrote: >>I think technique is much easier for critics to >>deal with than content...it's not as messy as content. >>Finnegan > >It's much harder, though, to understand >technique. And it's very easy to identify >subject matter and say something about it. > >--Bob > > > >-- >I think the content of the poem is where the >psychological (emotional) and philosophical >(ideational) elements of the poem reside. >Technique can't hold a candle to those elements >when in comes to difficulty and understanding. >Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you can go look it up. >Finnegan >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through very one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 07:14:09 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 06:14:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd man out; clipped from the BritPo list In-Reply-To: <8CD2BEDD0DAFEFF-E7C-2CD64@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2BEDD0DAFEFF-E7C-2CD64@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I love Olson's "smudging" and would love to hear what Al Golding has to say about this, including the omission of Bronk. On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:58 PM, wrote: > > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:00:01 +0100 > From: Jeffrey Side > Subject: Poetry Anthologies, Canon Building and the Silencing of William > Bronk > > I?ve just been re-reading the article ?Poetry Anthologies, Canon Building > and > the Silencing of William Bronk? by David Clippinger ( > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Clippinger%20essay.htm#_edn3) > which has been on the Argotist site for several years. I?d forgotten what a > > brilliant article it is, and that attention should be drawn to it again, as > I?m > sure it would be informative to some people. Here is an excerpt that shows > the > behind-the-scenes manipulations that went on in the production of Donald > Allen?s > 'The New American Poetry': > > > ?The rationale for Bronk?s omission from 'The New American Poetry' should > be > fairly obvious to those familiar with Allen?s famous anthology. First, > Allen > organized the anthology into five more or less geographic communities: > Black > Mountain, the San Francisco Renaissance, the Beats, the New York Poets, and > a > fifth group with ?no geographic definition,? although those poets tend to > be > affiliated with the San Francisco Renaissance more so than any other > grouping. > 16 Situated in Hudson Falls, New York, William Bronk is clearly not a > geographic member of the Black Mountain group nor any of the others, > although he > published in the Black Mountain Review. The geographic structure of > ?communities? of poets was established in September 1959 in an exchange of > letters between Allen and Creeley, from which Allen adhered to Creeley?s > suggestions for the sections?although Creeley suggests seven with a section > > dedicated to the ?Patriarchs? of the anthology (Zukofsky, Olson, Rexroth, > and > Duncan) and with the San Francisco Renaissance divided into an early and > later > period. Originally, Allen had conceived of the anthology as a more > ?complete? > literary history that would have included the ?first generation? of > American > poets who established the foundation for poets of The New American Poetry: > William Carlos Williams, H.D., e.e. cummings, Marianne Moore, Ezra Pound, > and > Wallace Stevens, who would be followed by ?Rexroth, Patchen, and Zukofsky.? > 17 > In this schema, the poets of 'The New American Poetry' would constitute the > > ?third? generation of this tradition. Such a structure would contextualize > the > anthology and legitimize it within a poetic lineage that included the > modern and > high modern poets. The anthology, conceived along these historic lines, > would > present an alternative literary history with distinctive American roots as > opposed to a British centered poetic tradition of New Poets of England and > America. > > Charles Olson, though, quashed the idea of including the ?Patriarchs? > section, > remarking that, > > ?I wouldn?t myself add either of those two units: either the ?aunties? or > the > grandpas. If the thing we are now in is just in its own character, and > there > isn?t one of us who isn?t bound together in that way, than by any of those > older > connections. In fact those connections strike me as smudging the point; > 1950 on. > [sic throughout]? > > Allen says of Olson?s remark that ?That decided it for me; I would > concentrate > on the new poets . . .? In essence, Olson wished to divorce contemporary > poetry > from the ?old? and thereby valorize its ?newness.? An extended historical > view > might undermine the explicit agenda of proposing a ?fresh? image of poetry, > > which was clearly the task that Olson as well as other poets who played a > large > part in shaping the anthology had envisioned.? > > > > This excerpt reminds me of something I read about Olson in Libbie Rifkin's > 'Career Moves'; that he was self-consciously trying to insinuate himslef > into > the US literary canon. > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 08:51:36 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:51:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knott on BAP, content, technique In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA09358.4030606@nut-n-but.net> On 9/26/2010 8:17 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > An entry from Bill Knott's blog that caught my eye in light of > recent discussion of Gerstler, subject matter, & the recent Best > American Poetry volume. This is from several months ago--not > about Gerstler's book. > Pretty comic--especially his berating a series of anthologies for the "difficulty" of their poems at the same time I'm berating them for avoiding such poems. I know some think I'm as intolerant of Knott's kinds of poetry as he is of mine, but I'm, uh, not. I just wrote an admiring review of a collection of poems I am pretty sure Knott would approve of by Joesph Bathanti, and--as I've too often had to say--am not against mainstream poetry, just against its being about the only kind of poetry that gets into anthologies like the one I'm pretty sure Gerstler's will be. I am also amused by Knott's belief that poets like me are contemptuous of poetry readers. I'm contemptuous only of poetry's too influential certifiers, who keep ordinary readers from exposure to adventurous poetry, by keeping it out of widely-circulated publications and critical articles. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 08:13:03 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:13:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knott on BAP, content, technique In-Reply-To: <4CA09358.4030606@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA09358.4030606@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The grand American imperative. Not you, Bob, but Knott's knot of frothy syllables cast 24/7 into the blistering blizzard a contentious atmosphere as we now "enjoy." Every bumper sticker and store-window telling us how to feel, what to think, what to "buy." The concept itself is deadening, a little coma in every comma (that's for National Punctuation Day, last Friday), ripe only in the category of thing-to-ignored. The problem? Sometimes they don't ignore their implicit subject: you. (I.e., sometimes it's a Glenn Beck behind the megaphone whose delusions might one day bite your nasty ass, as they say.) That the imperative or "a certain way," no matter how broadly interpreted, is thought to be the ground beneath what we do belies the notion of creativity, not to say the human. To torque the phrase: I don't know what it is *until* I see it. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/26/2010 8:17 PM, David Graham wrote: > > An entry from Bill Knott's blog that caught my eye in light of recent > discussion of Gerstler, subject matter, & the recent Best American Poetry > volume. This is from several months ago--not about Gerstler's book. > > Pretty comic--especially his berating a series of anthologies for the > "difficulty" of their poems at the same time I'm berating them for avoiding > such poems. I know some think I'm as intolerant of Knott's kinds of poetry > as he is of mine, but I'm, uh, not. I just wrote an admiring review of a > collection of poems I am pretty sure Knott would approve of by Joesph > Bathanti, and--as I've too often had to say--am not against mainstream > poetry, just against its being about the only kind of poetry that gets into > anthologies like the one I'm pretty sure Gerstler's will be. > > I am also amused by Knott's belief that poets like me are contemptuous of > poetry readers. I'm contemptuous only of poetry's too influential > certifiers, who keep ordinary readers from exposure to adventurous poetry, > by keeping it out of widely-circulated publications and critical articles. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 27 09:42:56 2010 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 06:42:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Writing Series @ UCSD next Wednesday, October 6 Message-ID: <05F6EC1768444DC1939751A581D27BD1@GlassCastle> New Writing Series presents: A reading by Rachel Loden Wednesday, October 6 4:30 pm Visual Arts Performance Space UC San Diego Free Sponsored by the Dean, Arts & Humanities Division and the Department of Literature http://literature.ucsd.edu/news/currentevents/writingseries.html Rachel Loden is the author of Dick of the Dead (Ahsahta Press), a finalist for both the 2010 PEN USA Literary Award for Poetry and the California Book Award. It was also one of the three most-cited books in Attention Span 2009 ("a collectively-drawn map of the field"), landing on lists by Rae Armantrout and others. The Washington Post's "Poet's Choice" column featured a poem from the book and it has been called "oddly sublime" and "intoxicating" by the Poetry Project Newsletter and "expansive and whimsical" by the Brooklyn Rail. Loden's first book, Hotel Imperium (Georgia), won the Contemporary Poetry Series competition and was selected as one of the ten best poetry books of the year by the San Francisco Chronicle, which called it "quirky and beguiling." It was also short-listed for the Northern California Book Award. Loden has published four chapbooks, including The Last Campaign (which won the Hudson Valley Writers' Center chapbook competition) and The Richard Nixon Snow Globe (Wild Honey Press). Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in New American Writing, Lana Turner: A Journal of Poetry and Opinion, two editions of the Best American Poetry series, Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry, and many other magazines and anthologies. Loden's microplay, "A Quaker Meeting in Yorba Linda," was performed in New York as part of Plays on Words: A Poets Theater Festival curated by Tony Torn, Lee Ann Brown and Corina Copp. She is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize, a Fellowship in Poetry from the California Arts Council, an &NOW Award, and a grant from the Fund for Poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 12:23:11 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:23:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry In-Reply-To: <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> On 9/26/2010 7:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than >> content...it's not as messy as content. >> Finnegan > > It's much harder, though, to understand technique. And it's very > easy to identify subject matter and say something about it. > > --Bob > > > > -- > I think the content of the poem is where the psychological (emotional) > and philosophical (ideational) elements of the poem reside. > Technique can't hold a candle to those elements when in comes to > difficulty and understanding. Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you > can go look it up. > Finnegan Difficult to reply to what you say, James. For one thing, your idea of "understanding technique" is a lot different from mine. You need more than a handbook to understand technique. I find, as a critic, that subject matter is almost always easy to discuss, but techniques, especially the newer ones that mainstream critics are not aware of, take ninety percent or more of my time finding and elucidating. It seems to me that subject matter is almost irrelevant--what counts is what a poet uses technique (often unconsciously) to get content to mean. I would add that poems don't have psychological and emotional elements, just psychological and emotional effects. But the subject is much more complex--too much so for a post. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 11:05:25 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:05:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knott on BAP, content, technique In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Knott's funny. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas* *https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas* * * *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* * http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* * * *Winter Journey* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html * * *Eclipse* *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* * * *The Dance of the Red Swan* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html *Transparencies & Projections* http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html * * * * On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:17 PM, David Graham wrote: > An entry from Bill Knott's blog that caught my eye in light of recent > discussion of Gerstler, subject matter, & the recent Best American Poetry > volume. This is from several months ago--not about Gerstler's book. > =====================================Thursday, July 29, 2010 > style sty: more slop from the BAP shop > * > Another entry in the endless campaign to browbeat poets into making their > poems inaccessible to the public at large, > > and to forgo content (content: saying things that people other than poets > might actually be interested in), > > to sacrifice content in favor of style?? > > to minimize content and maximize style?? > > in order words, the same old elitist bullshit > > that makes most people hate poetry: > > > http://blog.bestamericanpoetry.com/the_best_american_poetry/2010/07/criticisms-crisis-by-brian-henry.html > > .... > > The only fucking "crisis" most USAPO suffer from > > is their own snobbishness, > > their contempt for the public, > > their highbrow disdain for the common reader, > > and their hatred of poets who do appeal to the public, > > poets like Billy Collins, Jane Hirshfield, Mary Oliver etc, > > poets who have worked hard on providing not just "style" in their poems, > > but "content" as well?? > > which is why they are more popular with the bookbuying public > > than pompous purists like the author of this 'criticisms crisis' > crap, > > who's repeating (don't they ever get tired of it) the same old foity-toity, > the condescending creed that alienates > > so many readers who might really enjoy poetry > > if they weren't so intimidated and rebuffed by > > the obscuranting manneristic styles he urges poets to keep on favoring and > featuring . . . > > * > When I say "most USAPO" I don't exclude myself. I am not free of this curse > despite my efforts to exorcise it . . . so just add "our" each time I > condemn "their" behavior in the screed above. > > //// > Posted by knott at 1:46 PM > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fox.skip at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 11:41:11 2010 From: fox.skip at gmail.com (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:41:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knott on BAP, content, technique In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As is Naught. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Knott's funny. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas* > * > https://sites.google.com/site/vidalocabooks/halvard-johnson-obras-publicas > * > * > * > *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and > Other Sonnets* > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets > > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones* > > http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Entrance-Clones-Halvard-Johnson/dp/0965404390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283182804&sr=8-1 > > *Tango Bouquet* > > https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en > > > *Theory of Harmony* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf > * > *Rapsodie espagnole* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf > * > > *Guide to the Tokyo Subway* > * > http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Tokyo-Subway-Other-Poems/dp/0971487316/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283183153&sr=1-3 > * > * > * > *The > Sonnet Project* > * > https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf > * > * > * > * > G(e)nome* > *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf* > * > * > *Winter Journey* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.winter.html > * > * > *Eclipse* > *http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.eclipse.html* > * > * > *The Dance of the Red Swan* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.dance.html > > *Transparencies & Projections* > http://capa.conncoll.edu/johnson.transp.html > * > * > * > * > > > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:17 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> An entry from Bill Knott's blog that caught my eye in light of recent >> discussion of Gerstler, subject matter, & the recent Best American Poetry >> volume. This is from several months ago--not about Gerstler's book. >> ===================================== Thursday, July 29, 2010 >> style sty: more slop from the BAP shop >> * >> Another entry in the endless campaign to browbeat poets into making their >> poems inaccessible to the public at large, >> >> and to forgo content (content: saying things that people other than poets >> might actually be interested in), >> >> to sacrifice content in favor of style?? >> >> to minimize content and maximize style?? >> >> in order words, the same old elitist bullshit >> >> that makes most people hate poetry: >> >> >> http://blog.bestamericanpoetry.com/the_best_american_poetry/2010/07/criticisms-crisis-by-brian-henry.html >> >> .... >> >> The only fucking "crisis" most USAPO suffer from >> >> is their own snobbishness, >> >> their contempt for the public, >> >> their highbrow disdain for the common reader, >> >> and their hatred of poets who do appeal to the public, >> >> poets like Billy Collins, Jane Hirshfield, Mary Oliver etc, >> >> poets who have worked hard on providing not just "style" in their poems, >> >> but "content" as well?? >> >> which is why they are more popular with the bookbuying public >> >> than pompous purists like the author of this 'criticisms crisis' >> crap, >> >> who's repeating (don't they ever get tired of it) the same old >> foity-toity, the condescending creed that alienates >> >> so many readers who might really enjoy poetry >> >> if they weren't so intimidated and rebuffed by >> >> the obscuranting manneristic styles he urges poets to keep on favoring and >> featuring . . . >> >> * >> When I say "most USAPO" I don't exclude myself. I am not free of this >> curse despite my efforts to exorcise it . . . so just add "our" each time I >> condemn "their" behavior in the screed above. >> >> //// >> Posted by knott at 1:46 PM >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 27 16:35:33 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:35:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> If we use one well-known poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause I know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry is technique-heavy, wouldn't you say?), I would think a fairly comprehensive taxonomy of his poetic techniques could be assembled rather easily, with each technical move illustrated by one or more examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you skipped the more common rhetorical turns & figures of speech, which most experienced readers have come to recognize, and concentrated on less commonly employed types diction and his unique typographical and sonic techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content might take, well, forever? Simpler still, take one famous poem from the canon (e.g. one sonnet by Shakespeare): How long would it take to parse and break out its technical components? Then what kind of 'alembic' would it take to distill the content, especially when it is often psychologically muddled in so many ways, can be discussed on so many levels (historical, sociological, biographical, etc.), filtered through so many disciplines/theories, etc. Each word has a history (etymological, linguistic, idiolectic). It makes the latter undertaking pretty much impossible to exhaust. No one has mentioned 'tone' thus far; I would put 'tone' ahead of technique when it comes to level of difficulty. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry On 9/26/2010 7:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than content...it's not as messy as content. Finnegan It's much harder, though, to understand technique. And it's very easy to identify subject matter and say something about it. --Bob -- I think the content of the poem is where the psychological (emotional) and philosophical (ideational) elements of the poem reside. Technique can't hold a candle to those elements when in comes to difficulty and understanding. Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you can go look it up. Finnegan Difficult to reply to what you say, James. For one thing, your idea of "understanding technique" is a lot different from mine. You need more than a handbook to understand technique. I find, as a critic, that subject matter is almost always easy to discuss, but techniques, especially the newer ones that mainstream critics are not aware of, take ninety percent or more of my time finding and elucidating. It seems to me that subject matter is almost irrelevant--what counts is what a poet uses technique (often unconsciously) to get content to mean. I would add that poems don't have psychological and emotional elements, just psychological and emotional effects. But the subject is much more complex--too much so for a post. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Mon Sep 27 16:45:21 2010 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 14:45:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> <4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> <4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> <4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: as someone who frequently has to teach a form and technique of poetry class, i can vouch that the minute i introduce a thematic content to the class (environmentalism, race and identity, mind/body, etc.) the class immediately is more exciting to teach and invigorating to take. this does not seem to be a coincidence. c On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:35 PM, wrote: > If we use one well-known?poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause I > know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry?is technique-heavy, > wouldn't you say?),?I would think a fairly comprehensive taxonomy of > his?poetic techniques could be assembled rather easily, with?each technical > move illustrated by one or more examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you > skipped the more common rhetorical turns &?figures of speech, which most > experienced?readers?have come to recognize, and concentrated on?less > commonly employed types?diction?and?his unique?typographical and?sonic > techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content might > take, well,?forever? > Simpler still, take one famous poem from the canon (e.g. one?sonnet > by?Shakespeare): How long would it take to parse and?break out?its > technical?components? Then?what kind of 'alembic' would it take to distill > the?content, especially when it is?often psychologically muddled?in so many > ways, can be discussed on so many levels (historical, sociological, > biographical, etc.), filtered through so many disciplines/theories, etc. > Each word has a history (etymological, linguistic, idiolectic). It makes > the?latter undertaking pretty much impossible to exhaust. > No one has mentioned 'tone' thus far;?I would put 'tone' ahead of technique > when it comes to level of difficulty. > > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Grumman > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 12:23 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry > > On 9/26/2010 7:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than > content...it's not as messy as content. > Finnegan > > It's much harder, though, to understand technique.? And it's very easy to > identify subject matter and say something about it. > > --Bob > > > -- > I think the content of the poem is where the psychological (emotional) and > philosophical (ideational) elements of the poem reside. > Technique can't hold a candle to those elements when in comes to difficulty > and understanding. Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you can go look it > up. > Finnegan > > > Difficult to reply to what you say, James.? For one thing, your idea of > "understanding technique" is a lot different from mine.? You need more than > a handbook to understand technique.? I find, as a critic, that subject > matter is almost always easy to discuss, but techniques, especially the > newer ones that mainstream critics are not aware of, take ninety percent or > more of my time finding and elucidating.? It seems to me that subject matter > is almost irrelevant--what counts is what a poet uses technique (often > unconsciously) to get content to mean. > > I would add that poems don't have psychological and emotional elements, just > psychological and emotional effects. > > But the subject is much more complex--too much so for a post. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Connie Voisine Associate Professor of English New Mexico State University cvoisine at nmsu.edu 575-646-2027 From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 27 17:26:12 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:26:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Big Ten means more play for poet Message-ID: <8CD2CA1BE17BE57-1824-118C@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> http://www.omaha.com/article/20100927/NEWS01/709279944/0 Big Ten means more play for poet By Andrea Vasquez More than just football fans are looking forward to the Big Ten. When the University of Nebraska-Lincoln joins the conference next year, it also will join an academic network that is expected to strengthen the effort to construct a massive digital archive of the works of 19th-century American poet Walt Whitman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 18:52:01 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:52:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA12011.8050206@nut-n-but.net> On 9/27/2010 3:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > If we use one well-known poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause > I know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry is > technique-heavy, wouldn't you say?), I would think a fairly > comprehensive taxonomy of his poetic techniques could be assembled > rather easily, with each technical move illustrated by one or more > examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you skipped the more common > rhetorical turns & figures of speech, which most > experienced readers have come to recognize, and concentrated on less > commonly employed types diction and his unique typographical and sonic > techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content > might take, well, forever?James, I'm sorry, but you don't know much > about technique. What you're suggesting we do with Cummings's > techniques I've done (although probably not thoroughly). But it's > only a start, like finding the dictionary definitions of his words and > saying you've taken care of the "difficulty" of his content. > Simpler still, take one famous poem from the canon (e.g. one sonnet > by Shakespeare): How long would it take to parse and break out its > technical components? Then what kind of 'alembic' would it take to > distill the content, especially when it is often psychologically > muddled in so many ways, can be discussed on so many levels > (historical, sociological, biographical, etc.), filtered through so > many disciplines/theories, etc. Each word has a history (etymological, > linguistic, idiolectic). It makes the latter undertaking pretty much > impossible to exhaust. One of my ongoing projects is gaining an understanding of Shakespeare's Sonnet 18. It's on hold because of personal problems, mostly financial. But also too many competing projects. But I've done quite a bit of work on it, all of it so far on its techniques, which are relatively few. What you're missing is how a word's placement in a technique affects its meaning just as its placement in a syntax (which, whaddya know, is also a technique) does. You're also ridiculously multiplying the significant meanings a poem's words have. Sure, gushosophers can find infinite meanings in each word in a poem, but if they knew anything about technique, they could do the same with a rhyme--oh, the use of a rhyme here suggests the important of all of us working together for harmony, blah blah blah. > > No one has mentioned 'tone' thus far; I would put 'tone' ahead of > technique when it comes to level of difficulty. > Finnegan Nah. The only difficulty with tone is that it's subjective, so everyone will disagree about it. Anyway, I'm talking about a normal critical grappling with almost any poem, certainly any mainstream poem: the paraphrase is usually pretty simple, as is the specification of techniques, and the main connotations, and tone. Then some kind of over-all take of the poem, which is harder, but requires understanding of everything in the poem. Content is much more than subject matter. Frankly, I feel at a loss trying to say more, but there's much more, I know, to be said. I think I'll just have to hope I finally can get to and finish my book on Sonnet 18. It should give you a better idea of my point of view. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 18:54:03 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:54:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net><8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.a ol.com> Message-ID: <4CA1208B.2060009@nut-n-but.net> On 9/27/2010 3:45 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: > as someone who frequently has to teach a form and technique of poetry > class, i can vouch that the minute i introduce a thematic content to > the class (environmentalism, race and identity, mind/body, etc.) the > class immediately is more exciting to teach and invigorating to take. > this does not seem to be a coincidence. > > c Right. They want something difficult to struggle with. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 18:58:24 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:58:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net> Somehow I snipped part of my previous response. On 9/27/2010 3:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > If we use one well-known poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause > I know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry is > technique-heavy, wouldn't you say?), I would think a fairly > comprehensive taxonomy of his poetic techniques could be assembled > rather easily, with each technical move illustrated by one or more > examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you skipped the more common > rhetorical turns & figures of speech, which most > experienced readers have come to recognize, and concentrated on less > commonly employed types diction and his unique typographical and sonic > techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content > might take, well, forever? James, I'm sorry, but you don't know much about technique. What you're suggesting we do with Cummings's techniques I've done (although probably not thoroughly). But it's only a start, like finding the dictionary definitions of his words and saying you've taken care of the "difficulty" of his content. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Mon Sep 27 18:13:06 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:13:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> I don't know you all but I"ve been here a while, lurking as they say on another list.... But no you, Tad? are not the only one who looks miserably ? at editors who judge poems in terms of subject matter. How infuriating. that's another way of age/ethnic profiling /screening, is it not? Like if one writes about children or pregnancy or losing a parent chances are the editor will gag and snicker with his and to a lesser degree --her -- colleagues.... On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Bob -- way to turn the thread back to what's wrong with mainstream poetry! > > Subject matter is part of it -- generally, I think, in terms of what one probably doesn't want to read about than what one does. But of course it's not the whole story. Saying one likes sea stories doesn't mean that one puts Conrad, Masefield, Forester and Captain Marryat all on the same level. > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > Those are pretty much my themes. > Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so only the subject matter varies. > > Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of late. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Mon Sep 27 18:43:11 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:43:11 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com>, <4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net>, <8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I don't know that tone is completely subjective--or at least tone is often recognized. Like I know snarky when I see it. In this discussion I guess I am not altogether comfortable seperating the two--I mean content and technique. Yes, one wouldn't want to order poems (or accept poems or value poems) based on subject matter alone; neither though does one generally valorize technique without some nod to how that technique reflects some degree of meaning or felt non-meaning or new meaning or what have you. I think the mistake is to assume Big Marquee content is the only possible content of a poem and, conversely, that it is somehow verboten to write about any big content if you are a big--eg. important poet--as certainly we see with Shakespeare--melodrama thy name is Will and yet not. The interesting question for me is certainly how we understand the terms of that compact or connection or struggle as the case may be between the form of a poem (its technique) and its content-- I agree that I put tone high up when it comes to level of difficulty-- Sheila ( a lurker mostly--) To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:35:33 -0400 From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique If we use one well-known poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause I know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry is technique-heavy, wouldn't you say?), I would think a fairly comprehensive taxonomy of his poetic techniques could be assembled rather easily, with each technical move illustrated by one or more examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you skipped the more common rhetorical turns & figures of speech, which most experienced readers have come to recognize, and concentrated on less commonly employed types diction and his unique typographical and sonic techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content might take, well, forever? Simpler still, take one famous poem from the canon (e.g. one sonnet by Shakespeare): How long would it take to parse and break out its technical components? Then what kind of 'alembic' would it take to distill the content, especially when it is often psychologically muddled in so many ways, can be discussed on so many levels (historical, sociological, biographical, etc.), filtered through so many disciplines/theories, etc. Each word has a history (etymological, linguistic, idiolectic). It makes the latter undertaking pretty much impossible to exhaust. No one has mentioned 'tone' thus far; I would put 'tone' ahead of technique when it comes to level of difficulty. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Gerstler's Best American Poetry On 9/26/2010 7:10 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I think technique is much easier for critics to deal with than content...it's not as messy as content. Finnegan It's much harder, though, to understand technique. And it's very easy to identify subject matter and say something about it. --Bob -- I think the content of the poem is where the psychological (emotional) and philosophical (ideational) elements of the poem reside. Technique can't hold a candle to those elements when in comes to difficulty and understanding. Technique is the stuff of handbooks; you can go look it up. Finnegan Difficult to reply to what you say, James. For one thing, your idea of "understanding technique" is a lot different from mine. You need more than a handbook to understand technique. I find, as a critic, that subject matter is almost always easy to discuss, but techniques, especially the newer ones that mainstream critics are not aware of, take ninety percent or more of my time finding and elucidating. It seems to me that subject matter is almost irrelevant--what counts is what a poet uses technique (often unconsciously) to get content to mean. I would add that poems don't have psychological and emotional elements, just psychological and emotional effects. But the subject is much more complex--too much so for a post. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 27 20:28:09 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:28:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8CD2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net><8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com> <4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2CBB2980BF3D-16B8-673@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> I forgot more about 'technique' than most know, as the expression goes. Technique calls a lot of attention to itself. Calls attention to language structurally, syntactically, sonically, materially. The more I know about other languages, the more I realize how arbitrary/random these aspects of language are. Cont Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique Somehow I snipped part of my previous response. On 9/27/2010 3:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: If we use one well-known poet as an example, say E.E. Cummings, 'cause I know you like his work (and certainly Cummings' poetry is technique-heavy, wouldn't you say?), I would think a fairly comprehensive taxonomy of his poetic techniques could be assembled rather easily, with each technical move illustrated by one or more examples/excerpts. (Particularly if you skipped the more common rhetorical turns & figures of speech, which most experienced readers have come to recognize, and concentrated on less commonly employed types diction and his unique typographical and sonic techniques.) While unraveling the complexities of Cummings' content might take, well, forever? James, I'm sorry, but you don't know much about technique. What you're suggesting we do with Cummings's techniques I've done (although probably not thoroughly). But it's only a start, like finding the dictionary definitions of his words and saying you've taken care of the "difficulty" of his content. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 27 20:36:53 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:36:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] too close to home Message-ID: <8CD2CBC61A51F1D-16B8-949@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poet-forced-to-pulp-book-after-row-with-her-family-2091318.html Poet forced to pulp book after row with her family By David McKittrick, Ireland Correspondent Tuesday, 28 September 2010 MIKE SHAUGHNESSY Rita Ann Higgins was forced to rewrite parts of her collection which referred to her family after her wealthy brother took exception to them A prominent Irish poet has lived up to descriptions of her work as provocative, anarchic and untameable by sparking family divisions with her latest collection. More than 900 copies of the Galway poet Rita Ann Higgins' book, entitled Hurting God, were pulped by her publisher following objections from her millionaire brother. He took exception to references in the collection to him and the pair's mother which he and other members of the family characterised as "offensive" and "untrue". A new version of Ms Higgins' work is now in prospect -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 27 21:46:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:46:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <8CD2CBB2980BF3D-16B8-673@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net><8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.a ol.com><4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2CBB2980BF3D-16B8-673@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA148F6.6080703@nut-n-but.net> On 9/27/2010 7:28 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I forgot more about 'technique' than most know, as the expression > goes. Technique calls a lot of attention to itself. Some techniques are invisible. > Calls attention to language structurally, syntactically, sonically, > materially. The more I know about other languages, the more I realize > how arbitrary/random these aspects of language are. Last note: Wallace Stevens is all technique. No more from me on this. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Sep 27 22:22:35 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:22:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <4CA148F6.6080703@nut-n-but.net> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net><8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.a ol.com><4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2CBB2980BF3D-16B8-673@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> <4CA148F6.6080703@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <67799DBA-9506-4E11-A0E6-939C628B3479@ripon.edu> On Sep 27, 2010, at 8:46 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Some techniques are invisible. =============== Show me! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Sep 27 23:59:52 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:59:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut-n-but.net> <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: "miserably" and "gag" and "snicker" are a little strong. But yeah, I do think we all have things that draw us more than others. I guess it can be discrimination of a sort. I might not be programmed or hard-wired to gravitate first to a poem about pregnancy, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to e won over by a poem like Plath's "Morning Song." I probably spend a lot more of my time talking about baseball than pregnancies, but if I have the experience of having read one too many bad poems about baseball, I might go to the pregnancy poem first. Or - it can get harder. I love dogs and jazz, and dogs and jazz find their way into my poems fairly often, so will I perk up at a poem about dogs or jazz? Maybe not. I might territorial -- "Dogs? Hey, they're my subject. Go find your own." In any case, none of this has anything to do with judging poems in terms of subject matter. I can't imagine anyone doing that. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Tom Kostro wrote: > I don't know you all but I"ve been here a while, lurking > as they say on another list.... > > But no you, Tad? are not the only one who looks miserably ? at editors > who judge poems in terms of subject matter. > How infuriating. > > that's another way of age/ethnic profiling /screening, is it not? > > Like if one writes about children or pregnancy or losing a parent > chances are the editor will gag and snicker with his and to a lesser > degree --her -- colleagues.... > > > > On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > > Bob -- way to turn the thread back to what's wrong with mainstream poetry! > > Subject matter is part of it -- generally, I think, in terms of what one > probably doesn't want to read about than what one does. But of course it's > not the whole story. Saying one likes sea stories doesn't mean that one puts > Conrad, Masefield, Forester and Captain Marryat all on the same level. > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> On 9/24/2010 7:12 PM, Tad Richards wrote: >> >>> Those are pretty much my themes. >>> >> Am I the only New-Poetry participant who automatically looks down on >> editors and critics who think in terms of subject matter when discussing >> poetry? It seems to me like someone's trying to indicate what Monet, >> Cezanne and Rubens were like by telling you that they depicted lily ponds, >> mountains and fat women. I think my problem is with the implication that >> there's only one significant way of doing poetry, the mainstream way, so >> only the subject matter varies. >> >> Glad to hear from you, by the way, Mole. You've been pretty quiet of >> late. >> >> --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Sep 28 00:36:11 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:36:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Verse Wisconsin issue #104 Message-ID: Verse Wisconsin 104 is now available in print and online and includes prose and poetry about belief, as well as an interview with Milwaukee poet-philosopher John Koethe, the 2010 Academy of American Poets' Lenore Marshall Prize winner for his book, Ninety-fifth Street. As always, the online & print versions are complementary but different: Verse Wisconsin magazine includes poetry about belief and reflections on spirituality and poetry by Cathryn Cofell & Chuck Nevsimal, as well as an essay on craft by Sarah Busse, "Working at the Endings of Our Poems." VWOnline,http://versewisconsin.org/issue104.html, features "On the Road" poems and two inspiring projects that incorporate poetry & art: Marilyn Annucci & Russell Gardner, Jr.'s "Six Poems in Search of Their Book" and the Lake Effect Poets' work with photographer Thomas Ferrella on "Borderland"--a series of photographs and brailled poems. Also featured are a "Letter from the Frost Place," by Wisconsin poet Adam Halbur, Michael Kriesel's Encyclopedia of Wisconsin Forms & Formalists, and "Marco Polo" paintings by Nora Sturges--plus audio, book reviews, and more! Make sure to look at our two calls for poems while you're on the website, and join us at the Wisconsin Book Festival,http://www.wisconsinbookfestival.org/, this Thursday, September 30th, 7:30-9 at Avol's Bookstore in Madison for a reading with VW's co-editors, Madison Poet Laureate and VW advisor, Fabu, and 104 contributors Karl Elder, Susan Firer, Max Garland, Derrick Harriell, and John Koethe. We hope you enjoy this special Fall Issue of Verse Wisconsin on Belief! Sarah Busse & Wendy Vardaman, Co-Editors Verse Wisconsin P. O. Box 620216 Middleton, WI 53562-0216 www.versewisconsin.org Find us on Facebook! ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From obodooha at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 04:19:15 2010 From: obodooha at gmail.com (Obododimma Oha) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:19:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: RECONFIGURATIONS: Call for Submissions (Special Feature / Graphic Non-Fiction) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Scott Howard Date: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:20 PM Subject: RECONFIGURATIONS: Call for Submissions (Special Feature / Graphic Non-Fiction) To: POETICS at listserv.buffalo.edu RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture, ISSN: 1938-3592, http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/ Volume 4: Special Feature / Graphic Non-Fiction Submissions: September thru October, 2010 Publication: November, 2010 Guidelines: Volume four of Reconfigurations, http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/, seeks a variety of works for a special feature concerning graphic non-fiction. Marshall McLuhan?s ?Understanding Media? describes comics as a ?cool media,? where the tension between medium and message is key. That notion seems especially relevant to graphic non-fiction, where the desire to ?report? often collides with visual expression: the result being a work that demands intense reader participation and interpretation, thus calling attention to the author?s choice to work within the comics form. Reconfigurations seeks essays that explore this tension within the medium, art, and/or texts of graphic nonfiction (such as memoir, history, reports, journalism, travel writing). Reconfigurations, ISSN: 1938-3592, http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/, is an electronic, peer-reviewed, international, annual journal for poetics and poetry, creative and scholarly writing, innovative and traditional concerns with literary arts and cultural studies. Reconfigurations publishes under a Creative Commons 3.0 open-access license, is MLA indexed, EBSCO distributed and independently managed. Electronic Submissions: crowe at du.edu. Submissions should be attached as a single .doc, .rtf, or .txt file. Visuals should be attached individually as .jpg, .gif or .bmp files. Please include the words ?Special Feature (Graphic Non-Fiction)? in the subject line of your message. /// ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 28 08:11:42 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 07:11:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> On 9/27/2010 10:59 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > "miserably" and "gag" and "snicker" are a little strong. But yeah, I > do think we all have things that draw us more than others. I guess it > can be discrimination of a sort. I might not be programmed or > hard-wired to gravitate first to a poem about pregnancy, but that > doesn't mean I'm not going to e won over by a poem like Plath's > "Morning Song." I probably spend a lot more of my time talking about > baseball than pregnancies, but if I have the experience of having read > one too many bad poems about baseball, I might go to the pregnancy > poem first. Or - it can get harder. I love dogs and jazz, and dogs and > jazz find their way into my poems fairly often, so will I perk up at a > poem about dogs or jazz? Maybe not. I might territorial -- "Dogs? Hey, > they're my subject. Go find your own." > > In any case, none of this has anything to do with judging poems in > terms of subject matter. I can't imagine anyone doing that. Did I say I wasn't going to write anything more on this, uh, subject? Sure sign that I will, I guess. Anyway, Mole, you're nuts, as usual. I certainly judge poems (at times) on their subject matter. I automatically judge poems about 9/11 to be worthless. Okay, maybe in a very few cases I may be wrong--which I'll admit if challenged. But there is a whole class of poems I judge in advance as probably not worth reading: journalistic poems, or poems based on the latest headline. Ditto political poems--although one by Jeffers is among my favorite. Cause poems. Although I write poems in favor of the cause of unconventionality--in poetry or elsewhere. I suppose my judgements are really against cliche of subject matter, not any given subject matter. Or cliche of treatment of subject matter--like here's another poem whose author wants to save the whales (as I do). This would annoy me also because its advocature, not literature--something for an essay not a poem, in my view. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 28 08:22:16 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 07:22:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] content vs. technique In-Reply-To: <67799DBA-9506-4E11-A0E6-939C628B3479@ripon.edu> References: <4C9DDCCF.4020608@nut- n-but.net><4C9E65E1.30408@nut-n-but.net><8CD2B1B5EC6FBBC-1DC-1D816@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com><4C9E9E12.3090104@nut-n-but.net><8C D2BEF917D855F-E7C-2D24F@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com><4CA0C4EF.805@nut-n-but.net><8CD2C9AAA62E2DE-1824-39F@webmail-m035.sysops.a ol.com><4CA12190.2060404@nut-n-but.net><8CD2CBB2980BF3D-16B8-673@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com><4CA148F6.6080703@nut-n-but.net> <67799DBA-9506-4E11-A0E6-939C628B3479@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <4CA1DDF8.9030609@nut-n-but.net> >> Some techniques are invisible. > =============== > > Show me! > > > ======================================== > David Graham This gave me a laugh, David. I really meant that some techniques are unnoticeable. Thinking about it, though, I would change it to "All techniques are invisible--only their results are visible." For instance, a rhyme is not a technique, but the result of a technique. Further thought, along these same no doubt too definition-conscious lines: everything in poetry is the result of techniques, including the technique of subject-choice. So my real point is that too many poets, readers, critics focus too exclusively on the simplest, most conventional techniques rather than on complex and/or unconventional techniques. On choice of subject matter, say, instead of lineation, say--which is much more complex than most people imagine, at least for me. Of course, Knott-level poetry don't give a critic any way to discuss complex and/or unconventional techniques. And, as I guess I have to say, many poems using no complex and/or techniques are nontheless first-rate. --Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Sep 28 12:29:14 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:29:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: You're kind of making my point, Bob, which is understandable, since my point is inevitable, and you have that lovable naivete. You're saying that you tend to gravitate toward certain subjects and away from others, but that's not the last word -- you can like poems on subjects you'd gravitate away from, and vice versa. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/27/2010 10:59 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > >> "miserably" and "gag" and "snicker" are a little strong. But yeah, I do >> think we all have things that draw us more than others. I guess it can be >> discrimination of a sort. I might not be programmed or hard-wired to >> gravitate first to a poem about pregnancy, but that doesn't mean I'm not >> going to e won over by a poem like Plath's "Morning Song." I probably spend >> a lot more of my time talking about baseball than pregnancies, but if I have >> the experience of having read one too many bad poems about baseball, I might >> go to the pregnancy poem first. Or - it can get harder. I love dogs and >> jazz, and dogs and jazz find their way into my poems fairly often, so will I >> perk up at a poem about dogs or jazz? Maybe not. I might territorial -- >> "Dogs? Hey, they're my subject. Go find your own." >> >> In any case, none of this has anything to do with judging poems in terms >> of subject matter. I can't imagine anyone doing that. >> > > Did I say I wasn't going to write anything more on this, uh, subject? Sure > sign that I will, I guess. Anyway, Mole, you're nuts, as usual. I > certainly judge poems (at times) on their subject matter. I automatically > judge poems about 9/11 to be worthless. Okay, maybe in a very few cases I > may be wrong--which I'll admit if challenged. But there is a whole class of > poems I judge in advance as probably not worth reading: journalistic poems, > or poems based on the latest headline. Ditto political poems--although one > by Jeffers is among my favorite. Cause poems. Although I write poems in > favor of the cause of unconventionality--in poetry or elsewhere. I suppose > my judgements are really against cliche of subject matter, not any given > subject matter. Or cliche of treatment of subject matter--like here's > another poem whose author wants to save the whales (as I do). This would > annoy me also because its advocature, not literature--something for an essay > not a poem, in my view. > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomkostro at sprintmail.com Tue Sep 28 13:19:34 2010 From: tomkostro at sprintmail.com (Tom Kostro) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:19:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <510D2AEC-7FC2-4786-B810-E990D4EE41FF@sprintmail.com> well i ve seen plenty o editors gag and snicker, unfortunately. patricia On Sep 28, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > You're kind of making my point, Bob, which is understandable, since my point is inevitable, and you have that lovable naivete. You're saying that you tend to gravitate toward certain subjects and away from others, but that's not the last word -- you can like poems on subjects you'd gravitate away from, and vice versa. > > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > On 9/27/2010 10:59 PM, Tad Richards wrote: > "miserably" and "gag" and "snicker" are a little strong. But yeah, I do think we all have things that draw us more than others. I guess it can be discrimination of a sort. I might not be programmed or hard-wired to gravitate first to a poem about pregnancy, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to e won over by a poem like Plath's "Morning Song." I probably spend a lot more of my time talking about baseball than pregnancies, but if I have the experience of having read one too many bad poems about baseball, I might go to the pregnancy poem first. Or - it can get harder. I love dogs and jazz, and dogs and jazz find their way into my poems fairly often, so will I perk up at a poem about dogs or jazz? Maybe not. I might territorial -- "Dogs? Hey, they're my subject. Go find your own." > > In any case, none of this has anything to do with judging poems in terms of subject matter. I can't imagine anyone doing that. > > Did I say I wasn't going to write anything more on this, uh, subject? Sure sign that I will, I guess. Anyway, Mole, you're nuts, as usual. I certainly judge poems (at times) on their subject matter. I automatically judge poems about 9/11 to be worthless. Okay, maybe in a very few cases I may be wrong--which I'll admit if challenged. But there is a whole class of poems I judge in advance as probably not worth reading: journalistic poems, or poems based on the latest headline. Ditto political poems--although one by Jeffers is among my favorite. Cause poems. Although I write poems in favor of the cause of unconventionality--in poetry or elsewhere. I suppose my judgements are really against cliche of subject matter, not any given subject matter. Or cliche of treatment of subject matter--like here's another poem whose author wants to save the whales (as I do). This would annoy me also because its advocature, not literature--something for an essay not a poem, in my view. > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 28 17:07:20 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CA25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> On 9/28/2010 11:29 AM, Tad Richards wrote: > You're kind of making my point, Bob, which is understandable, since my > point is inevitable, and you have that lovable naivete. You're saying > that you tend to gravitate toward certain subjects and away from > others, but that's not the last word -- you can like poems on subjects > you'd gravitate away from, and vice versa. You explicitly said you couldn't imagine anyone judging poems on the basis of subject matter, Mole. Seems to me I showed that I do just that, a lot, finding many kinds of poems worthless because of their subject matter, and a very few worthwhile in spite of their subject matter. And many worthless in spite of their subject matter. Subject matter (including viewpoint) is usually the first thing I note in a poem, as does--I'm convinced--almost everyone. And I find it easy to identify. But a poem's techniques are what count for me, and they are what I hope to discuss as a critic, albeit sometimes without naming the technique, only considering its result. And sometimes there are few techniques available for discussion. --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Sep 28 16:25:22 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:25:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content Message-ID: Just wondering if anyone feels like looking at an example poem. Why, here's one now. An old familiar poem, in fact. It's one that I have long enjoyed without being able to say precisely why. Or, more specifically, I find it challenging to untangle the interwoven themes, techniques, and that hardest of all to describe quality, tone. Obviously its theme, at the aerial-view level, is as old as humankind. Nothing original here. But just try to paraphrase what it is "saying," exactly, and I believe you'll run into some difficulty. Is it saying just one thing? And if it is, can it be paraphrased at all without reducing the poem to oblivion? "Faith" is a fine invention When Gentlemen can *see*-- But *Microsopes* are prudent In an Emergency. Emily Dickinson ============================= Thinking about such things as thematic anthologies, it occurred to me that this little epigram might well appear in a book collecting lyrics about Faith or God; but if it were, it would likely be counter-balanced by others very different in approach. In fact, if I were an editor of a thematic anthology, I would probably seek out the widest range of approaches precisely in order to demonstrate the depth, variety, and importance of my theme. Both at the technical and at the thematic levels, then, I would aim for variety. Yet another way that the usual content "versus" technique dichotomy is more or less a silly distraction? -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Tue Sep 28 16:21:42 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:21:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <4CA25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> <4CA25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. At 05:07 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: > On 9/28/2010 11:29 AM, Tad Richards wrote: >>You're kind of making my point, Bob, which is >>understandable, since my point is inevitable, >>and you have that lovable naivete. You're >>saying that you tend to gravitate toward >>certain subjects and away from others, but >>that's not the last word -- you can like poems >>on subjects you'd gravitate away from, and vice versa. > >You explicitly said you couldn't imagine anyone >judging poems on the basis of subject matter, >Mole. Seems to me I showed that I do just that, >a lot, finding many kinds of poems worthless >because of their subject matter, and a very few >worthwhile in spite of their subject >matter. And many worthless in spite of their >subject matter. Subject matter (including >viewpoint) is usually the first thing I note in >a poem, as does--I'm convinced--almost >everyone. And I find it easy to identify. But >a poem's techniques are what count for me, and >they are what I hope to discuss as a critic, >albeit sometimes without naming the technique, >only considering its result. And sometimes >there are few techniques available for discussion. > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 28 19:02:06 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:02:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net> On 9/28/2010 3:25 PM, David Graham wrote: > Just wondering if anyone feels like looking at an example poem. > > Why, here's one now. An old familiar poem, in fact. It's one that I > have long enjoyed without being able to say precisely why. Or, more > specifically, I find it challenging to untangle the interwoven themes, > techniques, and that hardest of all to describe quality, tone. > > Obviously its theme, at the aerial-view level, is as old as humankind. > Nothing original here. But just try to paraphrase what it is > "saying," exactly, and I believe you'll run into some difficulty. Is > it saying just one thing? And if it is, can it be paraphrased at all > without reducing the poem to oblivion? > > "Faith" is a fine invention > When Gentlemen can */see*/-- > But */Microsopes* /are prudent > In an Emergency. I don't know what she means by "When gentlemen can /see/--" I take it the asterisks are there to indicate her italics in case someone's computer won't show them? Other than that it seems a standard bit of wry Yankee pragmatism like many other sayings like it none of which I can quite remember. Trust in God but bring a gun along kind of thing. There's not much technique. The use of the hymn stanza which gives it spryness, the pseudo rhyme that makes it playful. Whatever rhetorical term indicates the on one hand but on the other sort of thing. Oh, I see now that maybe she's speaking of the value of faith concerning what proper rather stuffy men see in letting them "see" beyond what they actually see, but that it may be better to have a material tool to see what's actually there. I think she's being playful but supercilious. I think the second line hermetic. I know: sacrilege. But when gentlemen can see, they need no faith. No doubt someone who has spent a lot more time than I with this poem will set me straight. Whatever it is, for me, it's an opinion in verse, not a poem. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 28 19:04:30 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:04:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA 25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> > Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, > unless it's a very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is > all that matters. You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? --Bob From junction at earthlink.net Tue Sep 28 18:07:01 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:07:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com> <4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net> <4CA 25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> <4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, which has happened a few times. At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: >>Subject matter is almost never the first thing >>I note in a poem, unless it's a very bad poem >>by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. > >You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Wed Sep 29 00:36:08 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA 25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net> <4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <42789.16191.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> in our view there are neither subjects nor objects and all this dithering is replay of old arguments. do rethink the situation in terms of the new objects at hand. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 7:04:30 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a >very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 10:12:23 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:12:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA 25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net><4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2DF777F05D93-1EDC-D662@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one paying attention to the poem all its levels at once; though one could consciously choose to attend to one element, like sound, typography, sense, etc., in a more focused way. I would find it very difficult while attending to a certain aspect of the poem to consciously ignore its subject matter. That would be an anti-semantic reading or some sort which is hard to imagine unless the poem was subverting sense-making at every turn or was full of made-up words. Even the images in a fragmentary poem often point to a theme. Or in a surrealist poem the images might make an accidental subject, even if it's somewhat different reader to reader. Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of the poem'. Makes for a nice ideal. Then again his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read it that way would only be a diminishment. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, which has happened a few times. At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? --Bob _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 29 10:18:16 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (junction at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:18:16 +0100 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener Message-ID: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 10:32:14 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:32:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8CD2DFA34C23E67-1DC4-3D2@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> One theme is the 'faith v. science' battle that was certainly in the air during latter part of the 19th C. 'Gentlemen' has probably a more ironic ring now than it did in 1800s; yet one feels that even then the formality of the word was meant as a bit of a jibe...perhaps a swipe at the Swedenborgians 'seers'. Probably Dickinson was aware of the Christian Science movement emanating from Boston, and perhaps she's having a go at those beliefs as well: Trust in faith, sure; but use the tools of science in an (medical) emergency. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 7:02 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content On 9/28/2010 3:25 PM, David Graham wrote: Just wondering if anyone feels like looking at an example poem. Why, here's one now. An old familiar poem, in fact. It's one that I have long enjoyed without being able to say precisely why. Or, more specifically, I find it challenging to untangle the interwoven themes, techniques, and that hardest of all to describe quality, tone. Obviously its theme, at the aerial-view level, is as old as humankind. Nothing original here. But just try to paraphrase what it is "saying," exactly, and I believe you'll run into some difficulty. Is it saying just one thing? And if it is, can it be paraphrased at all without reducing the poem to oblivion? "Faith" is a fine invention When Gentlemen can *see*-- But *Microsopes* are prudent In an Emergency. I don't know what she means by "When gentlemen can see--" I take it the asterisks are there to indicate her italics in case someone's computer won't show them? Other than that it seems a standard bit of wry Yankee pragmatism like many other sayings like it none of which I can quite remember. Trust in God but bring a gun along kind of thing. There's not much technique. The use of the hymn stanza which gives it spryness, the pseudo rhyme that makes it playful. Whatever rhetorical term indicates the on one hand but on the other sort of thing. Oh, I see now that maybe she's speaking of the value of faith concerning what proper rather stuffy men see in letting them "see" beyond what they actually see, but that it may be better to have a material tool to see what's actually there. I think she's being playful but supercilious. I think the second line hermetic. I know: sacrilege. But when gentlemen can see, they need no faith. No doubt someone who has spent a lot more time than I with this poem will set me straight. Whatever it is, for me, it's an opinion in verse, not a poem. --Bob _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 10:53:30 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:53:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I'm never sure what "works" means in this context. I've never seen a poem rake the lawn or shovel off the sidewalk (those things are work. Supplying "succeeds" instead doesn't help a lot, but it does help some. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, wrote: > To read and to explain are two different things. I'm with Stevens. > > As a poet/reader if the poem works I'm more interested in how it works. > > Best, > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > > A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one paying attention to the > poem all its levels at once; though one could consciously choose to attend > to one element, like sound, typography, sense, etc., in a more focused way. > I would find it very difficult while attending to a certain aspect of the > poem to consciously ignore its subject matter. That would be an > anti-semantic reading or some sort which is hard to imagine unless the poem > was subverting sense-making at every turn or was full of made-up words. Even > the images in a fragmentary poem often point to a theme. Or in a surrealist > poem the images might make an accidental subject, even if it's somewhat > different reader to reader. > > Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of the poem'. Makes for a nice > ideal. Then again his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read it that > way would only be a diminishment. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Weiss > To: NewPoetry List > Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > > Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, > which has happened a few times. > > At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: > > Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless > it's a very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that > matters. > > > You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 11:14:12 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:14:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <42789.16191.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net><4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> <42789.16191.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD2E001B66F3A6-1DC4-159C@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> What group are you speaking for?... All the good arguments are the old arguments. Whitehead said all of philosophy was merely footnotes to Plato....yet the footnotes keep coming. You're being rather cryptic, orphee, about thes 'new objects'...can you point to something in particular? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener in our view there are neither subjects nor objects and all this dithering is replay of old arguments. do rethink the situation in terms of the new objects at hand. From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 7:04:30 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 11:07:33 2010 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:07:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm rather sure that Dickinson is playing with the dual meanings of "see" here, too: a) as sensory perception and b) as understanding/knowing. There is this obvious divide between faith and science/empiricism evident in the poem. However, as David wisely points out, what *exactly *does this poem have to say about this split? I'm not sure that it's obvious. How about the word *prudent*? It feels loaded to me, stuffy, perhaps even somewhat ironic. Also, calling faith an *invention* makes me think of the microscope, itself an invention. If a microscope enhances what we see, then does faith do the same thing? I can't help thinking of Hamlet's line: "There are more things in heaven and earth**, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Best, Jeff Newberry On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:25 PM, David Graham wrote: > Just wondering if anyone feels like looking at an example poem. > > Why, here's one now. An old familiar poem, in fact. It's one that I have > long enjoyed without being able to say precisely why. Or, more > specifically, I find it challenging to untangle the interwoven themes, > techniques, and that hardest of all to describe quality, tone. > > Obviously its theme, at the aerial-view level, is as old as humankind. > Nothing original here. But just try to paraphrase what it is "saying," > exactly, and I believe you'll run into some difficulty. Is it saying just > one thing? And if it is, can it be paraphrased at all without reducing the > poem to oblivion? > > "Faith" is a fine invention > When Gentlemen can **see**-- > But **Microsopes* *are prudent > In an Emergency. > > Emily Dickinson > ============================= > > Thinking about such things as thematic anthologies, it occurred to me that > this little epigram might well appear in a book collecting lyrics about > Faith or God; but if it were, it would likely be counter-balanced by others > very different in approach. In fact, if I were an editor of a thematic > anthology, I would probably seek out the widest range of approaches > precisely in order to demonstrate the depth, variety, and importance of my > theme. Both at the technical and at the thematic levels, then, I would aim > for variety. Yet another way that the usual content "versus" technique > dichotomy is more or less a silly distraction? > > -- > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 29 13:16:29 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:16:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: <8CD2DFA34C23E67-1DC4-3D2@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2DFA34C23E67-1DC4-3D2@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA3746D.7000008@nut-n-but.net> On 9/29/2010 9:32 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One theme is the 'faith v. science' battle that was certainly in > the air during latter part of the 19th C. > 'Gentlemen' has probably a more ironic ring now than it did in 1800s; > yet one feels that even then the > formality of the word was meant as a bit of a jibe...perhaps a swipe > at the Swedenborgians 'seers'. > Probably Dickinson was aware of the Christian Science movement > emanating from Boston, and perhaps > she's having a go at those beliefs as well: Trust in faith, sure; but > use the tools of science in an (medical) emergency. > Finnegan Ah, this latter, for me, completely explains Emily's epigram as a little witticism against the probably pompous Christian Scientists. And it's not skeptical of religion, only of one extreme sect. So, a tone of amused, supercilous but amiable twitting. -Bob --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 29 12:09:20 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:09:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: My lawn mower works or doesn't work, even if I haven't turned it on. If it works I keep it, if it doesn't I get another. Work in the sense "how it works." "How does the lawnmower work?" "A source of energy is transferred to a gear system which causes sharpened blades to turn." Online etymological dictionary: work (v.) Look up work at Dictionary.com a fusion of O.E. wyrcan (past tense worhte, pp. geworht), from P.Gmc. *wurkijanan; and O.E. wircan (Mercian) "to work, operate, function," formed relatively late from P.Gmc. noun *werkan (see work (n.)). Worker as a type of bee is recorded from 1747. Work out "do strenuous physical exercise" first recorded 1909, originally in boxing jargon. Working-class first attested 1789 (n.), 1839 (adj.). Workmanlike "efficient, no-nonsense" is recorded from 1739. Of course there's still the problem that "to work" also means "to ferment." Possible source of confusion. On the other hand, "to succeed" means "to follow." At 10:53 AM 9/29/2010, you wrote: >I'm never sure what "works" means in this context. I've never >seen a poem rake the lawn or shovel off the sidewalk (those >things are work. Supplying "succeeds" instead doesn't help a lot, >but it does help some. > >Hal Serving the tri-state area. > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >Obras >P?blicas; >The >Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ >Harvest with Entrance of Clones; >Tango >Bouquet; >Theory >of Harmony; >Rapsodie >espagnole; >Guide >to the Tokyo Subway; >The >Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; >Winter >Journey; >Eclipse; >The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, ><junction at earthlink.net> wrote: >To read and to explain are two different things. I'm with Stevens. > >As a poet/reader if the poem works I'm more interested in how it works. > >Best, > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > >A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one >paying attention to the poem all its levels at >once; though one could consciously choose to >attend to one element, like sound, typography, >sense, etc., in a more focused way. I would find >it very difficult while attending to a certain >aspect of the poem to consciously ignore its >subject matter. That would be an anti-semantic >reading or some sort which is hard to imagine >unless the poem was subverting sense-making at >every turn or was full of made-up words. Even >the images in a fragmentary poem often point to >a theme. Or in a surrealist poem the images >might make an accidental subject, even if it's >somewhat different reader to reader. > >Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of >the poem'. Makes for a nice ideal. Then again >his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read >it that way would only be a diminishment. >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss <junction at earthlink.net> >To: NewPoetry List ><new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > >Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite >at a wedding or funeral, which has happened a few times. > >At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: > >>>Subject matter is almost never the first thing >>>I note in a poem, unless it's a very bad poem >>>by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. >> >>You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? >> >>--Bob >> >>_______________________________________________ > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jschickl at hotmail.com Wed Sep 29 12:25:48 2010 From: jschickl at hotmail.com (Jared Schickling) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:25:48 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Echoing Patricia, subject matter is of course an undeniable and inseparable part of the life of the poem -- e.g. editors, serving the needs of the publishing entity often serving the desires of their funding entities, writers and employers, etc & et al, do consider the manner in which a work engages public discourse. Books, inevitably, affect public discourse. Even effect. Harry Potter included, notice. Subject matter seams undeniable consideration in terms of the position and value of that which will / must transcend the mere weight of its brush stroke -- the brush stroke is always coming from somewhere and going/making somewhere. There's always a point to the product however transitory or ongoing the production process is, however much the "what" be its "how." Else, what the hell's the point? (Art for art's sake is too convenient. Comfortable.) I've heard a distinction made between popular and literary lit-tra-toor -- through the former, one escapes for a while, vacations, perhaps returning a bit more rested, while in the latter, the reader returns equipped differently to confront the exigencies of the day. One demands consumption, the other labor. Uncontrollable fact: Not all readers will enjoy squirming. Moreover, and simply, it would seem most boring to equate art with style. To call "style" primary. i do love fishnets. I mean, it sounds myopic workshops on craft, where the discussion so often limited by the politiking institutional department, this emphasis on style as if something that hasn't already met with subject matter, the necessarily philosophical (and all that that means) rendering of the subject stylizing it entails. Style as means -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 29 12:28:57 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:28:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: <4CA3746D.7000008@nut-n-but.net> References: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2DFA34C23E67-1DC4-3D2@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> <4CA3746D.7000008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: The Christian Science church dates to 1879. Eddy's book was published in 1875. When was the Dickinson poem written? It's not much of a poem, but its application is certainly broader than just one sect. Paraphrase: Faith's great when you don't need it, science does a better job when you might. How the poem works could be spelled out in a paragraph. Not one of her major efforts. At 01:16 PM 9/29/2010, you wrote: >On 9/29/2010 9:32 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >>One theme is the 'faith v. science' battle that >>was certainly in the air during latter part of the 19th C. >>'Gentlemen' has probably a more ironic ring now >>than it did in 1800s; yet one feels that even then the >>formality of the word was meant as a bit of a >>jibe...perhaps a swipe at the Swedenborgians 'seers'. >> >>Probably Dickinson was aware of the Christian >>Science movement emanating from Boston, and perhaps >>she's having a go at those beliefs as well: >>Trust in faith, sure; but use the tools of science in an (medical) emergency. >>Finnegan >Ah, this latter, for me, completely explains >Emily's epigram as a little witticism against >the probably pompous Christian Scientists. And >it's not skeptical of religion, only of one >extreme sect. So, a tone of amused, supercilous but amiable twitting. > >-Bob > >--Bob >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 29 13:01:19 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Probably everyone agrees that subject in the abstract tells us nothing about the quality of a poem. That's one of the reasons that *talking* about poems at the level of library subject headers is rather pointless ("this poem is about Death," "this one concerns Modern Love"). Millions of bad poems about every important theme you could name. What matters is what the poet does within those huge and amorphous categories. Would anyone disagree? Nonetheless, I am impatient with those who dismiss the theme of a poem as a mere irrelevancy, something that only naive readers will care about. If literature is news that stays news (still a pretty good standard for a lyric poem), I sure as hell want my news to be about a lot more than linebreaks, diction, and typography. Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as well as how people have thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as new themes, of course. I would love to see Walt Whitman's poems on cell phones and Marianne Moore writing about the internet--and not just because I would enjoy their craft. When I read Dickinson, even her lesser poems, I am struck by what a nimble, odd mind I am encountering. And a sly one, her poems seldom as straightforwardly paraphrasable as it might at first seem. In her "Faith" poem I can see a case being made for (at least) two distinctly different paraphrases, in fact: (a) she is mocking fair-weather believers, the sort of person whose faith evaporates under stress; or (b) she is mocking 19th century blind faith in materialistic & scientific "progress." That ironies are present seems obvious. But the whole poem for me is like those optical toys that show you two completely different scenes depending upon the angle of light. It's all a matter of negotiating tone. Does she mean it when she says micropcopes are prudent? Or is she being sarcastic? I honestly am not sure. Every time I look at this tiny poetic contraption I am less sure what I am "seeing," in both senses, in other words. One possible conclusion is that the poem encompasses or is artfully suspended among several possible meanings. > "Faith" is a fine invention > When Gentlemen can *see*-- > But *Microsopes* are prudent > In an Emergency. > ? ??????????????????????????Emily Dickinson ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:15:57 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:15:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I never saw a Microsope as lovely as a scree. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I'm rather sure that Dickinson is playing with the dual meanings of "see" > here, too: a) as sensory perception and b) as understanding/knowing. > > There is this obvious divide between faith and science/empiricism evident > in the poem. However, as David wisely points out, what *exactly *does > this poem have to say about this split? I'm not sure that it's obvious. > How about the word *prudent*? It feels loaded to me, stuffy, perhaps even > somewhat ironic. > > Also, calling faith an *invention* makes me think of the microscope, > itself an invention. If a microscope enhances what we see, then does faith > do the same thing? I can't help thinking of Hamlet's line: "There are more > things in heaven and earth**, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your > philosophy." > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:25 PM, David Graham wrote: > >> Just wondering if anyone feels like looking at an example poem. >> >> Why, here's one now. An old familiar poem, in fact. It's one that I have >> long enjoyed without being able to say precisely why. Or, more >> specifically, I find it challenging to untangle the interwoven themes, >> techniques, and that hardest of all to describe quality, tone. >> >> Obviously its theme, at the aerial-view level, is as old as humankind. >> Nothing original here. But just try to paraphrase what it is "saying," >> exactly, and I believe you'll run into some difficulty. Is it saying just >> one thing? And if it is, can it be paraphrased at all without reducing the >> poem to oblivion? >> >> "Faith" is a fine invention >> When Gentlemen can **see**-- >> But **Microsopes* *are prudent >> In an Emergency. >> >> Emily Dickinson >> ============================= >> >> Thinking about such things as thematic anthologies, it occurred to me that >> this little epigram might well appear in a book collecting lyrics about >> Faith or God; but if it were, it would likely be counter-balanced by others >> very different in approach. In fact, if I were an editor of a thematic >> anthology, I would probably seek out the widest range of approaches >> precisely in order to demonstrate the depth, variety, and importance of my >> theme. Both at the technical and at the thematic levels, then, I would aim >> for variety. Yet another way that the usual content "versus" technique >> dichotomy is more or less a silly distraction? >> >> -- >> >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/ >> >> Poetry Library: >> http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > You cannot tell people what to do, you can only tell them parables; and > that is what art really is, particular stories of particular people and > experience, from which each according to his own immediate and peculiar > needs may draw his own conclusion. --W.H. Auden > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 29 14:34:22 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:34:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA386AE.8010703@nut-n-but.net> "...a lot more than linebreaks, diction, and typography. " Seems to me good poems could be written about these subjects, but certainly no poem is about its techniques; a good poem is techniques used to make subjects worth engaging. Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as well as how people have thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as new themes, of course. I would love to see Walt Whitman's poems on cell phones and Marianne Moore writing about the internet--and not just because I would enjoy their craft. > > When I read Dickinson, even her lesser poems, I am struck by what a > nimble, odd mind I am encountering. And a sly one, her poems seldom > as straightforwardly paraphrasable as it might at first seem. In her > "Faith" poem I can see a case being made for (at least) two distinctly > different paraphrases, in fact: (a) she is mocking fair-weather > believers, the sort of person whose faith evaporates under stress; or > (b) she is mocking 19th century blind faith in materialistic & > scientific "progress." > > That ironies are present seems obvious. But the whole poem for me is > like those optical toys that show you two completely different scenes > depending upon the angle of light. It's all a matter of negotiating > tone. Does she mean it when she says micropcopes are prudent? Or is > she being sarcastic? I honestly am not sure. Every time I look at > this tiny poetic contraption I am less sure what I am "seeing," in > both senses, in other words. > > One possible conclusion is that the poem encompasses or is artfully > suspended among several possible meanings. Another is that it's vague. None of its possible meanings does anything for me. Infinite meanings can be drawn out of any text. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 29 14:38:40 2010 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:38:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tone, technique, content In-Reply-To: References: <4CA273EE.9070605@nut-n-but.net><8CD2DFA34C23E67-1DC4-3D2@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com><4CA3746D.7000008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <4CA387B0.1050903@nut-n-but.net> > The Christian Science church dates to 1879. Eddy's book was published > in 1875. When was the Dickinson poem written? Aside from that, haven't there always been faith healers? I think the main thing Emily has going for her here is absence of a title. --Bob From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Sep 29 13:57:15 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Michael Gizzi In-Reply-To: <90BF43D2-82A5-4C49-979F-CB25CBAD2ACE@verizon.net> References: <34B951C432D7400DB2E0F3491998BDF2@OwnerPC> <99FFB234ABEA41629A9ED0A82E3E38EE@OwnerPC> <90BF43D2-82A5-4C49-979F-CB25CBAD2ACE@verizon.net> Message-ID: <306390.86768.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> No official obit yet, but -- http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/09/michael-gizzi/ ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/ ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:23:27 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:23:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Emily just told me that she meant (among other things) that it's prudent to have microscopes around--just in case faith does not suffice. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Graham wrote: > Probably everyone agrees that subject in the abstract tells us nothing > about the quality of a poem. That's one of the reasons that *talking* about > poems at the level of library subject headers is rather pointless ("this > poem is about Death," "this one concerns Modern Love"). Millions of bad > poems about every important theme you could name. What matters is what the > poet does within those huge and amorphous categories. > > Would anyone disagree? > > Nonetheless, I am impatient with those who dismiss the theme of a poem as a > mere irrelevancy, something that only naive readers will care about. If > literature is news that stays news (still a pretty good standard for a lyric > poem), I sure as hell want my news to be about a lot more than linebreaks, > diction, and typography. Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as > well as how people have thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as > new themes, of course. I would love to see Walt Whitman's poems on cell > phones and Marianne Moore writing about the internet--and not just because I > would enjoy their craft. > > When I read Dickinson, even her lesser poems, I am struck by what a nimble, > odd mind I am encountering. And a sly one, her poems seldom as > straightforwardly paraphrasable as it might at first seem. In her "Faith" > poem I can see a case being made for (at least) two distinctly different > paraphrases, in fact: (a) she is mocking fair-weather believers, the sort > of person whose faith evaporates under stress; or (b) she is mocking 19th > century blind faith in materialistic & scientific "progress." > > That ironies are present seems obvious. But the whole poem for me is like > those optical toys that show you two completely different scenes depending > upon the angle of light. It's all a matter of negotiating tone. Does she > mean it when she says micropcopes are prudent? Or is she being sarcastic? > I honestly am not sure. Every time I look at this tiny poetic contraption > I am less sure what I am "seeing," in both senses, in other words. > > One possible conclusion is that the poem encompasses or is artfully > suspended among several possible meanings. > > > "Faith" is a fine invention > When Gentlemen can **see**-- > But **Microsopes* *are prudent > In an Emergency. > > > Emily Dickinson > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:36:29 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:36:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Michael Gizzi In-Reply-To: <306390.86768.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <34B951C432D7400DB2E0F3491998BDF2@OwnerPC> <99FFB234ABEA41629A9ED0A82E3E38EE@OwnerPC> <90BF43D2-82A5-4C49-979F-CB25CBAD2ACE@verizon.net> <306390.86768.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh man. Not good news at all. Very sad to hear this.... On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, amy king wrote: > > No official obit yet, but -- > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/09/michael-gizzi/ > > > ******** > Amy's Alias > + http://amyking.org/ > ******** > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From junction at earthlink.net Wed Sep 29 14:53:38 2010 From: junction at earthlink.net (Mark Weiss) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:53:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Michael Gizzi In-Reply-To: References: <34B951C432D7400DB2E0F3491998BDF2@OwnerPC> <99FFB234ABEA41629A9ED0A82E3E38EE@OwnerPC> <90BF43D2-82A5-4C49-979F-CB25CBAD2ACE@verizon.net> <306390.86768.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Awful. At 02:36 PM 9/29/2010, you wrote: >Oh man. Not good news at all. Very sad to hear this.... > >On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, amy king wrote: > > > > No official obit yet, but -- > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/09/michael-gizzi/ > > > > > > ******** > > Amy's Alias > > + http://amyking.org/ > > ******** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > >-- >k >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody [it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Sep 29 17:19:40 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:19:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark Twain had something to say on the subject, referring, in "Life on the Mississippi," to "poetry of the Thou-hast-wounded-the-spirit-that-loved-thee breed." On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 1:01 PM, David Graham wrote: > Probably everyone agrees that subject in the abstract tells us nothing > about the quality of a poem. That's one of the reasons that *talking* about > poems at the level of library subject headers is rather pointless ("this > poem is about Death," "this one concerns Modern Love"). Millions of bad > poems about every important theme you could name. What matters is what the > poet does within those huge and amorphous categories. > > Would anyone disagree? > > Nonetheless, I am impatient with those who dismiss the theme of a poem as a > mere irrelevancy, something that only naive readers will care about. If > literature is news that stays news (still a pretty good standard for a lyric > poem), I sure as hell want my news to be about a lot more than linebreaks, > diction, and typography. Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as > well as how people have thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as > new themes, of course. I would love to see Walt Whitman's poems on cell > phones and Marianne Moore writing about the internet--and not just because I > would enjoy their craft. > > When I read Dickinson, even her lesser poems, I am struck by what a nimble, > odd mind I am encountering. And a sly one, her poems seldom as > straightforwardly paraphrasable as it might at first seem. In her "Faith" > poem I can see a case being made for (at least) two distinctly different > paraphrases, in fact: (a) she is mocking fair-weather believers, the sort > of person whose faith evaporates under stress; or (b) she is mocking 19th > century blind faith in materialistic & scientific "progress." > > That ironies are present seems obvious. But the whole poem for me is like > those optical toys that show you two completely different scenes depending > upon the angle of light. It's all a matter of negotiating tone. Does she > mean it when she says micropcopes are prudent? Or is she being sarcastic? > I honestly am not sure. Every time I look at this tiny poetic contraption > I am less sure what I am "seeing," in both senses, in other words. > > One possible conclusion is that the poem encompasses or is artfully > suspended among several possible meanings. > > > "Faith" is a fine invention > When Gentlemen can **see**-- > But **Microsopes* *are prudent > In an Emergency. > > > Emily Dickinson > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/ > > Poetry Library: > http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.a.b.daly at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 18:35:33 2010 From: c.a.b.daly at gmail.com (Catherine Daly) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:35:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:01 AM, David Graham wrote: > Probably everyone agrees that subject in the abstract tells us nothing about > the quality of a poem. ?That's one of the reasons that *talking* about poems > at the level of library subject headers is rather pointless ("this poem is > about Death," "this one concerns Modern Love"). Millions of bad poems about > every important theme you could name. ?What matters is what the poet does > within those huge and amorphous categories. > Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as well as how people have thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as new themes, of course. Well, I am surprised that apparently everyone here thinks that, by and large, poetry readership and publishing, which seems to vastly prefer age-old subjects and themes treated fairly directly, is wrong. I think the general reader's desire -- at least as interpreted by publishers and reviewers -- is definitely to peg a poem -- wherever encountered -- as about something *before* reading carefully enough to decide if one likes HOW it is about something and if it is "well said." I think it is fairly obvious that even the work which disturbs syntax and upsets certain expectations most, as well as the work which is, in general, most about style and not about form or content, only reaches notice when it is about sex, death, various illnesses or diseases, or general confessional autobiography, with a few anti-war poems and some occasional verse thrown in. Is Lyn Hejinian's MY LIFE really so much better than all of her other work that it is what's taught most? Is Mary Jo Bang's book about the death of her son really her best work, as indicated by column inches in the New York Times? A lot has been written about how distant Philip Levine is from the factory floor. Can Mary Karr and Nick Flynn write about anything if they reject the 12 step rubric? What if Karr starts writing about whet a terrible mistake giving up rum and accepting Jesus into her heart has been? What if Kim Addonizio wrote about chicken pot pie and not tattoos and sex? It seems to me that the most popular writers and their most popular work is only popular because they write the expected thing on the expected topics in the expected ways. But, to me, this topic started about being something else: how really dull some content-free poetry being written right now really is, rather than the opposite, how really dull some topical poetry is. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly at gmail.com From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 19:09:24 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:09:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matter, tone, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's sure hard to imagine *everyone* here thinking the same thoughts or, for that matter, agreeing on anything. And that's good. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:01 AM, David Graham wrote: > > Probably everyone agrees that subject in the abstract tells us nothing > about > > the quality of a poem. That's one of the reasons that *talking* about > poems > > at the level of library subject headers is rather pointless ("this poem > is > > about Death," "this one concerns Modern Love"). Millions of bad poems > about > > every important theme you could name. What matters is what the poet does > > within those huge and amorphous categories. > > > Nothing wrong with going to poetry for what as well as how people have > thought about all the age-old subjects. As well as new themes, of course. > > Well, I am surprised that apparently everyone here thinks that, by and > large, poetry readership and publishing, which seems to vastly prefer > age-old subjects and themes treated fairly directly, is wrong. I > think the general reader's desire -- at least as interpreted by > publishers and reviewers -- is definitely to peg a poem -- wherever > encountered -- as about something *before* reading carefully enough to > decide if one likes HOW it is about something and if it is "well > said." > > I think it is fairly obvious that even the work which disturbs syntax > and upsets certain expectations most, as well as the work which is, in > general, most about style and not about form or content, only reaches > notice when it is about sex, death, various illnesses or diseases, or > general confessional autobiography, with a few anti-war poems and some > occasional verse thrown in. Is Lyn Hejinian's MY LIFE really so much > better than all of her other work that it is what's taught most? Is > Mary Jo Bang's book about the death of her son really her best work, > as indicated by column inches in the New York Times? A lot has been > written about how distant Philip Levine is from the factory floor. > Can Mary Karr and Nick Flynn write about anything if they reject the > 12 step rubric? What if Karr starts writing about whet a terrible > mistake giving up rum and accepting Jesus into her heart has been? > What if Kim Addonizio wrote about chicken pot pie and not tattoos and > sex? It seems to me that the most popular writers and their most > popular work is only popular because they write the expected thing on > the expected topics in the expected ways. > > But, to me, this topic started about being something else: how really > dull some content-free poetry being written right now really is, > rather than the opposite, how really dull some topical poetry is. > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 19:37:52 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:37:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) Message-ID: Half Measures This being a democracy, one should resemble a description, and not a rumor to oneself. Na?ve to think relationships are equal. Human nature is a public nuisance, humanity a bully after all. Are you experienced? Does water experience the ocean? Freedom's useless if you can't eat. The world is enormous, then you leave the house. --Michael Gizzi fr. *New Depths of Deadpan* **Providence: Burning Deck, 2009 Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 19:56:00 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:56:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD2E49003C4112-1C94-363A@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Love the way that short poem ends. Thanks for posting it, Hal. I didn't know Michael at all. I've gotten to know Peter, his b -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) Half Measures This being a democracy, one should resemble a description, and not a rumor to oneself. Na?ve to think relationships are equal. Human nature is a public nuisance, humanity a bully after all. Are you experienced? Does water experience the ocean? Freedom's useless if you can't eat. The world is enormous, then you leave the house. --Michael Gizzi fr. New Depths of Deadpan Providence: Burning Deck, 2009 Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 20:00:24 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:00:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) In-Reply-To: <8CD2E49003C4112-1C94-363A@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2E49003C4112-1C94-363A@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD2E499DA612B4-1C94-384E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> sorry,.. to continue: I know his brother Peter a little. What I do remember is that many years ago I ran a reading series in Northampton MA and Michael Gizzi read and really made an impression on me. He was half-performance, half-language poet, at the time, as I remember. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) Love the way that short poem ends. Thanks for posting it, Hal. I didn't know Michael at all. I've gotten to know Peter, his b -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:37 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) Half Measures This being a democracy, one should resemble a description, and not a rumor to oneself. Na?ve to think relationships are equal. Human nature is a public nuisance, humanity a bully after all. Are you experienced? Does water experience the ocean? Freedom's useless if you can't eat. The world is enormous, then you leave the house. --Michael Gizzi fr. New Depths of Deadpan Providence: Burning Deck, 2009 Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 29 20:34:51 2010 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:34:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] microscripts Message-ID: <8CD2E4E6E212A5A-1C94-49F7@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> http://www.powells.com/review/2010_09_17 The Microscripts by Robert Walser >From the Pencil Zone: Robert Walser's Masterworklets A review by Rivka Galchen The magnificently humble. The enormously small. The meaningfully ridiculous. Robert Walser's work often reads like a dazzling answer to the question, How immense can modesty be? If Emily Dickinson made cathedrals of em dashes and capital letters and the angle of winter light, Walser accomplishes the feat with, well, ladies' feet and trousers, and little emotive words like joy, uncapitalized. Walser was born not long before Dickinson died, and was likely ignorant of her poetry, but the two worked out in hoarded words a kindred kind of literature. Both cultivated a precious habit of keeping secrets, surely knowing how loud secrets can be. And both had a touch of the holy and the silly about them. Let's say literature is not your religion, but it once was, and you're the kind of apostate who sits in church pews every day; Walser, then, like Dickinson, is your prophet: reluctant, nearly inaudible, having made efforts to hide in the belly of an old New England house, or a sanatorium. / -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:05:15 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:05:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) In-Reply-To: <8CD2E499DA612B4-1C94-384E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD2E49003C4112-1C94-363A@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> <8CD2E499DA612B4-1C94-384E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Lucky you, JF. I don't know either of them, except through a bit of their writing. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:00 PM, wrote: > sorry,.. to continue: I know his brother Peter a little. What I do remember > is that many years ago I ran a reading series in Northampton MA and Michael > Gizzi read and really made an impression on me. He was half-performance, > half-language poet, at the time, as I remember. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:56 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) > > Love the way that short poem ends. Thanks for posting it, Hal. > > I didn't know Michael at all. I've gotten to know Peter, his b > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views < > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:37 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) > > Half Measures > > This being a democracy, > one should resemble a description, > and not a rumor to oneself. > > Na?ve to think relationships are equal. > Human nature is a public nuisance, > humanity a bully after all. > > Are you experienced? > Does water experience the ocean? > Freedom's useless if you can't eat. > > The world is enormous, > > then you leave the house. > > --Michael Gizzi > > fr. *New Depths of Deadpan* > **Providence: Burning Deck, 2009 > > > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan > ;* > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing listNew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 02:49:45 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <8CD2DF777F05D93-1EDC-D662@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA 25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net><4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> <8CD2DF777F05D93-1EDC-D662@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <942529.95750.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Once more I voice a difference in this enunciation about wholistic. why wholistic? why not figmentary and segmented across the transversals of 'poetry' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 02:50:36 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <969073.83568.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> yet another stereotypical remark: reading au contraire is explaining. ________________________________ From: "junction at earthlink.net" To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 10:18:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener To read and to explain are two different things. I'm with Stevens. As a poet/reader if the poem works I'm more interested in how it works. Best, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > >A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one paying attention to the poem all >its levels at once; though one could consciously choose to attend to one >element, like sound, typography, sense, etc., in a more focused way. I would >find it very difficult while attending to a certain aspect of the poem to >consciously ignore its subject matter. That would be an anti-semantic reading or >some sort which is hard to imagine unless the poem was subverting >sense-making at every turn or was full of made-up words. Even the images in >a fragmentary poem often point to a theme. Or in a surrealist poem the images >might make an accidental subject, even if it's somewhat different reader to >reader. > > >Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of the poem'. Makes for a nice ideal. >Then again his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read it that way would >only be a diminishment. >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Weiss >To: NewPoetry List >Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > > >Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, which >has happened a few times. > >At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: > > >Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a >very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. >You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? > >--Bob > >_______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 02:53:21 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: <8CD2E001B66F3A6-1DC4-159C@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> References: <8703EBE3-060E-4617-AED5-3E1130CCA16D@sprintmail.com><4CA1DB7E.9000505@nut-n-but.net><4CA25908.7080605@nut-n-but.net><4CA2747E.5020004@nut-n-but.net> <42789.16191.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CD2E001B66F3A6-1DC4-159C@Webmail-m120.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <743440.12096.qm@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> O no the old arguments are not the new. As for notes and footnotes and objects .. one looks about seeing the new so too are the objects we see and hear. Perhaps I am cryptic from one stance whereas we see it more like donning new words for the new subjects. ________________________________ From: "jforjames at aol.com" To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 11:14:12 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener What group are you speaking for?... All the good arguments are the old arguments. Whitehead said all of philosophy was merely footnotes to Plato....yet the footnotes keep coming. You're being rather cryptic, orphee, about thes 'new objects'...can you point to something in particular? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: orphee To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 12:36 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener in our view there are neither subjects nor objects and all this dithering is replay of old arguments. do rethink the situation in terms of the new objects at hand. ________________________________ From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry List Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 7:04:30 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a >very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 03:00:03 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <150153.65471.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Must say we dig this __ it either works or dont right. i think of old ezra cranky pound saying to mister eliot in wasteland revisions dont do pope couplet if you cant do them. simple pragmatics. so critical assumptions round a poem are not theoretical till after the fact;in others as charles bernstein says in another context the poet's poetics don't necessarily mean more than his practice. critics create their own objects and readers get hypnotized by them,_ but to our ears wordsworth's remarks about poetry are always more valued as they speak to a practice nothing more or less. and one more quip franky o'hara says the thing __ whatever it is yer doin' ought to fit like a good pair of jeans. that sort of says it all dont you think? do yer verse is a lawnmower that clicks or ~ . forgive my seeming offhand remarks but its beena long time and more since i discuss poetry at this demeanor. cheers ________________________________ From: Mark Weiss To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 12:09:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener My lawn mower works or doesn't work, even if I haven't turned it on. If it works I keep it, if it doesn't I get another. Work in the sense "how it works." "How does the lawnmower work?" "A source of energy is transferred to a gear system which causes sharpened blades to turn." Online etymological dictionary: work (v.) a fusion of O.E. wyrcan (past tense worhte, pp. geworht), from P.Gmc. *wurkijanan; and O.E. wircan (Mercian) "to work, operate, function," formed relatively late from P.Gmc. noun *werkan (see work (n.)). Worker as a type of bee is recorded from 1747. Work out "do strenuous physical exercise" first recorded 1909, originally in boxing jargon. Working-class first attested 1789 (n.), 1839 (adj.). Workmanlike "efficient, no-nonsense" is recorded from 1739. Of course there's still the problem that "to work" also means "to ferment." Possible source of confusion. On the other hand, "to succeed" means "to follow." At 10:53 AM 9/29/2010, you wrote: I'm never sure what "works" means in this context. I've never >seen a poem rake the lawn or shovel off the sidewalk (those >things are work. Supplying "succeeds" instead doesn't help a lot, >but it does help some. > >Hal Serving the tri-state area. > >Halvard Johnson >================ > >halvard at gmail.com >http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; >Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; >G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; >Transparencies & Projections > > > > >On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, wrote: > >To read and to explain are two different things. I'm with Stevens. > > >As a poet/reader if the poem works I'm more interested in how it works. > > >Best, > > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: jforjames at aol.com > >Sent: Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > > >A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one paying attention to the poem all >its levels at once; though one could consciously choose to attend to one >element, like sound, typography, sense, etc., in a more focused way. I would >find it very difficult while attending to a certain aspect of the poem to >consciously ignore its subject matter. That would be an anti-semantic reading or >some sort which is hard to imagine unless the poem was subverting sense-making >at every turn or was full of made-up words. Even the images in a fragmentary >poem often point to a theme. Or in a surrealist poem the images might make an >accidental subject, even if it's somewhat different reader to reader. > > > >Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of the poem'. Makes for a nice ideal. >Then again his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read it that way would >only be a diminishment. > >Finnegan > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark Weiss > >To: NewPoetry List > >Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener > > >Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, which >has happened a few times. > > >At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: > > >Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a >very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. > >You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? > > >--Bob > > >>_______________________________________________ > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss? fragments are like Chekhov?s short stories?the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain? One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody?[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orpheecd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 03:29:11 2010 From: orpheecd at yahoo.com (orphee) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener In-Reply-To: References: <9496596.1285769897590.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <189938.77435.qm@web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> O i think works is a good and fine way to say the thing here. works? its a little machine right, ya know that old Carlos williams statement poetry's a machine ... and then think of reading a verse outloud it works. it connects it fits like a piece of music. or dylan thomas saying a poem's a hypothesis he sets out with and then when its done he sees the hypthothesis turned out to be right., we, one is not limited by the scaffolding one uses to 'wrap' up a poem --think of James Joyce saying he was an engineer working from both sides ofthe mountain (FInnegans Wake) boring away ___ that worked well .. it sall good . one can even pretende gender conceits as if they were 'real ' when in fact they are literary fanciies. __ last posting of the time being as Im off and back to work. Cheers its fun here. ________________________________ From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry List Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 10:53:30 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener I'm never sure what "works" means in this context. I've never seen a poem rake the lawn or shovel off the sidewalk (those things are work. Supplying "succeeds" instead doesn't help a lot, but it does help some. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:18 AM, wrote: To read and to explain are two different things. I'm with Stevens. > >As a poet/reader if the poem works I'm more interested in how it works. > >Best, > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: jforjames at aol.com >>Sent: Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener >> >>A 'wholistic reading' of poem would have one paying attention to the poem all >>its levels at once; though one could consciously choose to attend to one >>element, like sound, typography, sense, etc., in a more focused way. I would >>find it very difficult while attending to a certain aspect of the poem to >>consciously ignore its subject matter. That would be an anti-semantic reading or >>some sort which is hard to imagine unless the poem was subverting >>sense-making at every turn or was full of made-up words. Even the images in >>a fragmentary poem often point to a theme. Or in a surrealist poem the images >>might make an accidental subject, even if it's somewhat different reader to >>reader. >> >> >>Stevens stated that 'poetry is the subject of the poem'. Makes for a nice ideal. >>Then again his poetry is far from subjectless; and to read it that way would >>only be a diminishment. >>Finnegan >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Mark Weiss >>To: NewPoetry List >>Sent: Tue, Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] re subject matter as screener >> >> >>Yup. Unless I'm asked to find a poem to recite at a wedding or funeral, which >>has happened a few times. >> >>At 07:04 PM 9/28/2010, you wrote: >> >> >>Subject matter is almost never the first thing I note in a poem, unless it's a >>very bad poem by a poet who assumes that sincerity is all that matters. >>You mean not the first thing you pay significant attention to, yes? >> >>--Bob >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oedipa at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 12:44:20 2010 From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:44:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) In-Reply-To: References: <8CD2E49003C4112-1C94-363A@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> <8CD2E499DA612B4-1C94-384E@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I took a few workshops with Peter Gizzi while I was at UMass and he's worked with me on my thesis. He's a sane, smart, funny and all around great person. Never met his brother though...or had the fortune to hear him read. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Lucky you, JF. I don't know either of them, > except through a bit of their writing. > Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:00 PM, wrote: >> >> sorry,.. to continue: I know his brother Peter a little. What I do >> remember is that many years ago I ran a reading series in Northampton MA and >> Michael Gizzi read and really made an impression on me.?He was >> half-performance, half-language poet, at the time,?as I remember. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:56 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) >> >> Love the way that short poem ends. Thanks for posting it, Hal. >> >> I didn't know Michael at all. I've gotten to know Peter, his b >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >> >> Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 7:37 pm >> Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Michael Gizzi (1949-2010) >> >> Half Measures >> This being a democracy, >> one should resemble a description, >> and not a rumor to oneself. >> Na?ve to think relationships are equal. >> Human nature is a public nuisance, >> humanity a bully after all. >> Are you experienced? >> Does water experience the ocean? >> Freedom's useless if you can't eat. >> The world is enormous, >> then you leave the house. >> --Michael Gizzi >> fr.?New Depths of Deadpan >> Providence: Burning Deck, 2009 >> >> >> Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; >> Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; >> Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; >> G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; >> Transparencies & Projections >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- k From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:29:00 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:29:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: NOTICE! In-Reply-To: <20100929143702.88dfcd581dc3ac3191ef3c83626287c1.5cf4a7a96c.wbe@email14.secureserver.net> References: <20100929143702.88dfcd581dc3ac3191ef3c83626287c1.5cf4a7a96c.wbe@email14.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I received the following message, this is the second time. Does anybody know what I have to do? Thank you for your assistance, Anny On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Gmail Service wrote: > Our science & technology team has recently launched Google web software > to protect and secure all Gmail Accounts. This system also enhanced > efficient networking and fully supported browser. You need to upgrade to a > fully supported browser by filling out the details below for validation > purpose and to confirm your details on the new webmaster Central system. > Account Name: > Pass word: > Country: > Date of Birth: > Note: Your account will be disabled permanently if you failed to provide > the details required above within 72hours. Gmail will not be held > responsible for your negligence. > The Google web Service. > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:30:41 2010 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:30:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: NOTICE! In-Reply-To: References: <20100929143702.88dfcd581dc3ac3191ef3c83626287c1.5cf4a7a96c.wbe@email14.secureserver.net> Message-ID: DO NOTHING. It's a scam. - Jim On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I received the following message, this is the second time. Does anybody > know what I have to do? > Thank you for your assistance, Anny > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Gmail Service wrote: > >> Our science & technology team has recently launched Google web software >> to protect and secure all Gmail Accounts. This system also enhanced >> efficient networking and fully supported browser. You need to upgrade to a >> fully supported browser by filling out the details below for validation >> purpose and to confirm your details on the new webmaster Central system. >> Account Name: >> Pass word: >> Country: >> Date of Birth: >> Note: Your account will be disabled permanently if you failed to provide >> the details required above within 72hours. Gmail will not be held >> responsible for your negligence. >> The Google web Service. >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:32:51 2010 From: anny.ballardini at gmail.com (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:32:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: NOTICE! In-Reply-To: References: <20100929143702.88dfcd581dc3ac3191ef3c83626287c1.5cf4a7a96c.wbe@email14.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Thank You James! On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:30 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > DO NOTHING. It's a scam. > > - Jim > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Anny Ballardini < > anny.ballardini at gmail.com> wrote: > >> I received the following message, this is the second time. Does anybody >> know what I have to do? >> Thank you for your assistance, Anny >> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Gmail Service wrote: >> >>> Our science & technology team has recently launched Google web software >>> to protect and secure all Gmail Accounts. This system also enhanced >>> efficient networking and fully supported browser. You need to upgrade to a >>> fully supported browser by filling out the details below for validation >>> purpose and to confirm your details on the new webmaster Central system. >>> Account Name: >>> Pass word: >>> Country: >>> Date of Birth: >>> Note: Your account will be disabled permanently if you failed to >>> provide the details required above within 72hours. Gmail will not be held >>> responsible for your negligence. >>> The Google web Service. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique >> vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? >> Giovenale >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? Giovenale -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu Sep 30 13:40:27 2010 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:40:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] microscripts Message-ID: Thanks for linking this introduction to Walser, Jim. His bizarre little modesties are hilarious & heartbreaking. The review is well-written too and I love finding a connection between Kafka & Emily Dickinson! I was about to buy Walser's books till I remembered that I must first finish Sophocles. That is a plug for reading the old as a fascinating window on the new, or, in the case of Walser, the newly-encountered. > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:34:51 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] microscripts > Message-ID: <8CD2E4E6E212A5A-1C94-49F7 at webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > http://www.powells.com/review/2010_09_17 > The Microscripts > by Robert Walser > >From the Pencil Zone: Robert Walser's Masterworklets > A review by Rivka Galchen > > The magnificently humble. The enormously small. The meaningfully > ridiculous. Robert Walser's work often reads like a dazzling answer to the > question, How immense can modesty be? If Emily Dickinson made cathedrals of > em dashes and capital letters and the angle of winter light, Walser > accomplishes the feat with, well, ladies' feet and trousers, and little > emotive words like joy, uncapitalized. Walser was born not long before > Dickinson died, and was likely ignorant of her poetry, but the two worked > out in hoarded words a kindred kind of literature. Both cultivated a > precious habit of keeping secrets, surely knowing how loud secrets can be. > And both had a touch of the holy and the silly about them. Let's say > literature is not your religion, but it once was, and you're the kind of > apostate who sits in church pews every day; Walser, then, like Dickinson, is > your prophet: reluctant, nearly inaudible, having made efforts to hide in > the belly of an old New England house, or a sanatori > um. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:34:30 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:34:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: NOTICE! In-Reply-To: References: <20100929143702.88dfcd581dc3ac3191ef3c83626287c1.5cf4a7a96c.wbe@email14.secureserver.net> Message-ID: You need to delete it, asap. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I received the following message, this is the second time. Does anybody > know what I have to do? > Thank you for your assistance, Anny > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Gmail Service wrote: > >> Our science & technology team has recently launched Google web software >> to protect and secure all Gmail Accounts. This system also enhanced >> efficient networking and fully supported browser. You need to upgrade to a >> fully supported browser by filling out the details below for validation >> purpose and to confirm your details on the new webmaster Central system. >> Account Name: >> Pass word: >> Country: >> Date of Birth: >> Note: Your account will be disabled permanently if you failed to provide >> the details required above within 72hours. Gmail will not be held >> responsible for your negligence. >> The Google web Service. >> > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ? Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique > vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae ? > Giovenale > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Thu Sep 30 16:47:32 2010 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:47:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today Message-ID: dear all: i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. as before, i await your thoughts, connie voisine From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Thu Sep 30 16:50:54 2010 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:50:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007801cb60e1$2d84ff30$888efd90$@edu> can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, but can't quite find it in my own head. Thanks. I can't name a title off the top of my head, but I would think Lucille Clifton would have some ballads in her work. Bill Morgan From halvard at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 16:57:40 2010 From: halvard at gmail.com (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:57:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Something about a sad cafe. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *Obras P?blicas ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets ;* *Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones ; **Tango Bouquet ; **Theory of Harmony ; * ***Rapsodie espagnole ; **Guide to the Tokyo Subway ; **The Sonnet Project ; * ***G(e)nome ; **Winter Journey ; **Eclipse ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; * *Transparencies & Projections * On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: > dear all: > > i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a > social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming > lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > > can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not > music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, > though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, > but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > > as before, i await your thoughts, > > connie voisine > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sheilafblack at hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 17:22:15 2010 From: sheilafblack at hotmail.com (sheila black) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:22:15 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Try this link--one by Andrew Hudgins there, but i bet you've already seen this (poetry foundation) http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/tool.poem.glossary.1.html?id=19 What about British poets like Geoffrey Hill or Andrew Motion--it would seem in character for one of them to write a ballad--or Carol Ann Duffy who often uses rhyme? S. Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:57:40 -0500 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the ballad today Something about a sad cafe. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: dear all: i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. as before, i await your thoughts, connie voisine _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Sep 30 17:20:05 2010 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 16:20:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd be inclined to ask someone like Annie Finch this question. Nothing from the last 10 years immediately springs to my mind, but the first poets that I thought of were Gwendolyn Brooks and Langston Hughes. Probably not recent enough for your purposes, though. On 9/30/10 3:47 PM, "Connie Voisine" wrote: > dear all: > > i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a > social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming > lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > > can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not > music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, > though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, > but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > > as before, i await your thoughts, > > connie voisine > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.me.com/drjazz/ Poetry Library: http://web.me.com/drjazz/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ==================================================== From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 17:20:01 2010 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] NYU Panel Presentation: Women in the Literary Arts -- Tomorrow, Friday, October 1st, @ 2:00 p.m. Message-ID: <260800.39698.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Friday, October 1st, @ 2:00?p.m. Panel Presentation: Women in the Literary Arts A new organization for women in the literary arts, VIDA seeks to explore critical and cultural perceptions of writing by women through meaningful conversation and the exchange of ideas among existing and emerging literary communities. Featuring nine founding members: poets Erin Belieu, Cate Marvin, Danielle Pafunda, Ann Townsend, and Amy King; fiction writers Susan Steinberg and Cheryl Strayed; children?s author Kekla Magoon; and creative nonfiction writer Barrie Jean Borich. Co-sponsored with VIDA. Location:?? Lillian Vernon Creative Writers House, 58 West 10th Street, between 5th and 6th Avenues http://cwp.fas.nyu.edu/page/readingseries ******** Amy's Alias + http://amyking.org/? ******** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Thu Sep 30 17:32:36 2010 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (Connie Voisine) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:32:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's so unfashionable to be overtly narrative. in third person no less! i bet that's part of the problem. c On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, sheila black wrote: > Try this link--one by Andrew Hudgins there, but i bet you've already seen > this?(poetry foundation) > > > ?http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/tool.poem.glossary.1.html?id=19 > > What about British poets like Geoffrey Hill or Andrew Motion--it would seem > in character for > one of them to write a ballad--or Carol Ann Duffy who often uses rhyme? > > S. > ________________________________ > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:57:40 -0500 > From: halvard at gmail.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the ballad today > > Something about a sad cafe. > Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony; > Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project; > G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; > Transparencies & Projections > > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: > > dear all: > > i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a > social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming > lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > > can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not > music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, > though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, > but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > > as before, i await your thoughts, > > connie voisine > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Connie Voisine Associate Professor of English New Mexico State University cvoisine at nmsu.edu 575-646-2027 From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 17:55:03 2010 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <820132.45621.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Our dear?Anny pubbed a ballad of mine on the Poet's Corner, if you want to have a look. It's a little parody of Francois Villon's "Ballade des?Dames du temps jadis" (with the old "Where are the snows of yesteryear?" refrain). I read it at a reading once, but nobody recognized the reference. Personally, I love the form: I'm a?big Charles d'Orleans fan (more than Villon, actually), but I also love Benjamin Fondane's?ballads (unavailable in English to my knowledge). I'm sure I'll write a few more at some point... Amicalement, Alexander Dickow?? ? www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ________________________________ From: sheila black To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 11:22:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the ballad today Try this link--one by Andrew Hudgins there, but i bet you've already seen this?(poetry foundation) ? ?http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/tool.poem.glossary.1.html?id=19 ? What about British poets like Geoffrey Hill or Andrew Motion--it would seem in character for one of them to write a ballad--or Carol Ann Duffy who often uses rhyme? ? S. ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:57:40 -0500 From: halvard at gmail.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the ballad today Something about a sad cafe. Hal ? ?Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com/ http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com/ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ Obras P?blicas;?The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones;?Tango Bouquet;?Theory of Harmony;? Rapsodie espagnole;?Guide to the Tokyo Subway;?The Sonnet Project;? G(e)nome;?Winter Journey;?Eclipse;?The Dance of the Red Swan; Transparencies & Projections On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: dear all: > >i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a >social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming >lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > >can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not >music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, >though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, >but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > >as before, i await your thoughts, > >connie voisine >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Thu Sep 30 17:59:14 2010 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (gejs1 at rochester.rr.com) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:59:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100930215914.T1MMA.67418.root@hrndva-web18-z01> or Cable Hogue... in search of a water hole finding Peckinpaugh insteda... ---- Halvard Johnson wrote: > Something about a sad cafe. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > *Obras P?blicas > ; **The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other > Sonnets > ;* > *Organ Harvest with Entrance of > Clones > ; **Tango Bouquet > ; **Theory of Harmony > ; * > ***Rapsodie espagnole > ; **Guide to the Tokyo > Subway > ; **The Sonnet Project > ; * > ***G(e)nome ; **Winter > Journey ; > **Eclipse > ; **The Dance of the Red Swan ; > * > *Transparencies & Projections > * > > > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: > > > dear all: > > > > i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a > > social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming > > lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > > > > can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not > > music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, > > though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, > > but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > > > > as before, i await your thoughts, > > > > connie voisine > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From tad at opus40.org Thu Sep 30 18:42:58 2010 From: tad at opus40.org (Tad Richards) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:42:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My book-length narrative poem, Situations, is in rhymed quatrains but not ballad meter-- but I have, recently, written a shorter narrative poem in ballad meter, so someone's still doing it. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Connie Voisine wrote: > it's so unfashionable to be overtly narrative. in third person no less! > > i bet that's part of the problem. > > c > > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, sheila black > wrote: > > Try this link--one by Andrew Hudgins there, but i bet you've already seen > > this (poetry foundation) > > > > > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/tool.poem.glossary.1.html?id=19 > > > > What about British poets like Geoffrey Hill or Andrew Motion--it would > seem > > in character for > > one of them to write a ballad--or Carol Ann Duffy who often uses rhyme? > > > > S. > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:57:40 -0500 > > From: halvard at gmail.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] the ballad today > > > > Something about a sad cafe. > > Hal Serving the tri-state area. > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > > > halvard at gmail.com > > http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > Obras P?blicas; The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets; > > Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones; Tango Bouquet; Theory of Harmony; > > Rapsodie espagnole; Guide to the Tokyo Subway; The Sonnet Project; > > G(e)nome; Winter Journey; Eclipse; The Dance of the Red Swan; > > Transparencies & Projections > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Connie Voisine > wrote: > > > > dear all: > > > > i am thinking lately that the ballad seems pretty exciting to me as a > > social form--story telling, fatedness, disenfranchisement, its seeming > > lack of judgement, its interest in ethics...but > > > > can anyone think of some uses of the ballad form in literature (not > > music) of the last 10 years? it seems to have perished mid-century, > > though i hope i am wrong. i want to imagine the form for our times, > > but can't quite find it in my own head. thanks. > > > > as before, i await your thoughts, > > > > connie voisine > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > -- > Connie Voisine > Associate Professor of English > New Mexico State University > cvoisine at nmsu.edu > 575-646-2027 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Sep 30 21:54:23 2010 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:54:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] the ballad today Message-ID: In a message dated 9/30/2010 5:01:48 PM Central Daylight Time, alexdickow9 at yahoo.com writes: > Our dear Anny pubbed a ballad of mine on the Poet's Corner, if you want > to have a look. It's a little parody of Francois Villon's "Ballade des Dames > du temps jadis" (with the old "Where are the snows of yesteryear?" > refrain). I read it at a reading once, but nobody recognized the reference. > Personally, I love the form: I'm a big Charles d'Orleans fan (more than Villon, > actually), but I also love Benjamin Fondane's ballads (unavailable in > English to my knowledge). I'm sure I'll write a few more at some point... > Amicalement, > Alexander Dickow > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > > Ballad or ballade? Different critters. Ubi Sunt? for the 70s Where are the primetime Friars Club roasts? Where are the lousy jokes they'd tell, Slurred tributes mixed with sloppy toasts, Canned laughs, and Dino's drunken yell? Where's Tricky Dicky? Deep in hell With all those creepy aides he had? Do they, at long last, share a cell? Where are the days that were so bad? Where are the smarmy game-show hosts, And where are Ali and Cosell, The bad toupee, the endless boasts Made good with every opening bell? The ABA, the AFL, Disaster flicks, the painted sad- Eyed kids that K-Mart used to sell? Where are the days that were so bad? Where are you now, unquiet ghosts-- Hot pants, bad tie, cuff and lapel So wide they seemed to span the coasts, The teeming discos and the smell Of smoke that Brut could not dispel? Where is each crummy passing fad-- Mood ring, pet rock, or Weeble? Well? Where are the days that were so bad? Envoy Prince, fickle Taste has tolled the knell Of parting for them, so be glad For temps jadis where memories dwell, Those yesterdays that were so bad. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Thu Sep 30 22:58:51 2010 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:58:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ballads Message-ID: <4CA51628.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Tom Pickard, "Ballad of Jamie Allan" (Flood, 2007). And staying with les Brits, not in the last 10 years but still sorta recent, and quite controversial on its publication: Blake Morrison, "The Ballad of the Yorkshire Ripper" (1987). Alan From acgold01 at louisville.edu Thu Sep 30 23:06:08 2010 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:06:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ballads II Message-ID: <4CA517DC.AC48.0004.1@gwise.louisville.edu> Though I'm going back a bit further in time now, I should also have mentioned Helen Adam, who wrote ballads her whole life / career, has what I think is the only ballad in Don Allen's The New American Poetry, and even co-wrote a ballad opera, "San Francisco's Burning." Alan